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MTG-Fan
07-21-2009, 02:12 PM
Explosive moon effects mean you don't care about Chalice @ 1? That doesn't make any sense. You *always* care about Chalice @1. It shuts down your entire gameplan, whether or not you can make their Ancient Tombs mountains, because they play basic Islands too.

Then you are reliant on recruiting one of your silver bullets... and reliant on that bullet staying alive against a deck probably playing lots of equipment that can easily kill your Shusher or your Jaya. It's BAD, trust me.

On the bright side of things, this deck completely rapes Merfolk pre-board, and it only gets worse for them post-board if you run Pyrokinesis, so that's always a fun matchup.

Michael Keller
07-22-2009, 09:24 AM
Explosive moon effects mean you don't care about Chalice @ 1? That doesn't make any sense. You *always* care about Chalice @1. It shuts down your entire gameplan, whether or not you can make their Ancient Tombs mountains, because they play basic Islands too.

Then my suggestion to you (specifically) is don't play Imperial Painter in your local metagame if you argue for how bad Chalice is (for you). A vast amount of solutions have been presented to you so there is no need to to base any further argumentation opposing this deck - against any other deck - packing no less than four Chalice of the Void.

I think you're under the misnomer that we're all trying to sell the deck (and points) to you. We're not; we're simply reiterating readily available information based on tournament results and countless hours of play-testing.

Take it for what you will.

I've begun tweaking the main deck a little more and testing it some. I'll get back to you all.

Rath
07-22-2009, 10:51 AM
I think you're under the misnomer that we're all trying to sell the deck (and points) to you. We're not; we're simply reiterating readily available information based on tournament results and countless hours of play-testing.


*nods head in agreement*

Not much else to say, other than Magic is designed to be a variable game, which is why we play it and design decks like Imperial Painter to handle certain variables. Unless they have a FoW + chalice + land + mox + 2 blue cards + jitte as their opening hand EVERY GAME, you should be ok... even then, if you did land a magus 1st turn, and they respond with a chalice @ 1 (using mox + land), then you still have 2 more turns before they get out jitte and a creature, and then they still have to equip that creature AND swing into you to generate counters on the jitte... so 3 turns at least to find a recruiter or an answer. If you are that worried you could always replace a couple lightning bolts with jittes of your own (but then I would recommend you run figures to carry them as well, and only run 1-2 jitte as it is probably better as a sideboard card).


I am looking forward to seeing your tweaks Hollywood.

DrewliusMaximus
07-23-2009, 03:27 PM
If for some reason Faerie Stompy is everywhere in your meta, I'd probably just have 4 Shattering Spree in the board.

So I changed the build I was using when I got 2-1 last weekend, and then I tested again last night. I really like the new list actually, but I need to decide on 4 slots in the SB before going to the Waco tournament on August 1. Here is the MD, which I'm happy with:

10 Mountain
1 Foothills
4 Tomb
3 City
4 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
2 Figure
1 Shusher
2 Blood Moon
2 Magma Jet
2 Top
7 Blast
4 Grindstone

And here's the 11 slots I want for sure in the SB:

4 Trinisphere
3 Relic
1 Blood Moon
1 Heretic
1 Hearth Kami
1 Shusher

I like my friend Jeff's suggestion of Firespout so I want to do something like 2 Pyrokinesis and 2 Firespout, or 3 Firespout and 1 of something else (4th Blood Moon, 4th GY hate, 3rd Figure, etc.). Any suggestions?

Rath
07-23-2009, 03:58 PM
Can I ask why you wanted the firespouts (as in which decks it will help you against)?

Something someone suggested for me was a goblin welder if you are running enough artifacts (which I think you are) it allows you to weld stuff in and out of the graveyard and works as a combo enabler... I have actually seen someone grindstone themselves to get the painter they needed into the graveyard and then welded it back into play the next turn for the win. Theoretically it can mess with an opponents board as well, but I have not had enough experience to say how useful that is.

Of course, the 4th GY hate is always good and helps against so much of the field.

DrewliusMaximus
07-23-2009, 06:40 PM
Can I ask why you wanted the firespouts (as in which decks it will help you against)?

Something someone suggested for me was a goblin welder if you are running enough artifacts (which I think you are) it allows you to weld stuff in and out of the graveyard and works as a combo enabler... I have actually seen someone grindstone themselves to get the painter they needed into the graveyard and then welded it back into play the next turn for the win. Theoretically it can mess with an opponents board as well, but I have not had enough experience to say how useful that is.

Of course, the 4th GY hate is always good and helps against so much of the field.

Firespouts would help against Goblins, Merfolk, Elves, Empty the Warrens tokens, Dredge and Zoo among others.

I used to play with 1-2 Welders in the MD along with 0-2 Gambles. And I even pulled off that Grindstone-a-Servant-into-the-yard-and-recur thing once. They won me some games for sure, but were also very conditional. Playing with them, I felt like I was trying to do too many tricks. I really like Figure of Destiny right now, because it's an unconditional threat, and rewards you for playing Moon effects. It's nice to have a win condition that is totally independent of Servant.

Rath
07-24-2009, 09:46 AM
Makes more sense to run the welders with gambles.

Firespout does have good game as a sweeper against much of the field, and possibly is better in the zoo matchup than Pyrokinesis as you are almost guaranteed 2 for 1 or better (kird ape + nactl + confidant + magus + sometimes an early tarmogoyf)... plus can really sweep merfolk with all their lords (but you still have a great game there with all your blasts).

Here's my current build and sideboard. I usually have 3 slots open depending on my meta, but have filled them with firespout for now (often it is 2 Pyrokinesis and +1 moon/+1 relic). My big decision right now is whether or not to replace the magma jets with tops... however, I miss lightning bolt already and instant burn can be remarkably useful (especially with scry)


// Lands
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Figure of Destiny
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Vexing Shusher

// Spells
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
3 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
2 Blood Moon
2 Magma Jet

// Sideboard
1 Blood Moon
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Figure of Destiny
4 Trinisphere
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Hearth Kami
3 Firespout

Rath
07-29-2009, 01:59 PM
Quick question for Hollywood...
At the 40 dual tournament you played mono green control/stax (nice deck BTW). Congrats on the top 4 finish, but I was hoping for another IP tournament report *grin*

Can I ask how you think IP would have fared in that tournament and if it has game against a deck like mono-green?

Michael Keller
07-29-2009, 03:44 PM
Quick question for Hollywood...
At the 40 dual tournament you played mono green control/stax (nice deck BTW). Congrats on the top 4 finish, but I was hoping for another IP tournament report *grin*

Can I ask how you think IP would have fared in that tournament and if it has game against a deck like mono-green?

I think Mono-Green would quite honestly rape Imperial Painter given the card comparisons. There are far too many hate cards and far too many dead cards for I.P. to have to contend with (compare lists).

However, that doesn't mean Imperial Painter has a bad match against any of the other decks currently established in Legacy. It does, in fact, have some very good match-ups. The one thing to consider is your meta game and make an educated guess as to what will be played.

DrewliusMaximus
08-03-2009, 01:55 PM
There was a disappointing 11-person turnout at the Waco tournament this weekend since pretty much nobody except Houstonians made the trip. But I played Imperial Painter and went 2-2.

I won round 1 against UWb Wishstill, lost round 2 against Ur Dreadstill, lost round 3 against Angel/Geddon Stax, and won round 4 against Affinity.

The list I brought was:

10 Mountain
1 Foothills
4 Tomb
3 City
4 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
1 Shusher
1 Figure
2 Moon
2 Magma Jet
3 Top
7 Blast
4 Grindstone
SB
4 Trinisphere
3 Relic
3 Firespout
3 Shattering Spree
1 Moon
1 Figure

In both the Dreadstill and Stax match, I felt good boarding in 3 Sprees, but I ended up missing a Recruitable artifact-hater. From this event, and the last 2 or 3 tournaments in Houston, I have started thinking that Heretic deserves a MD slot. It seems to me that, unless you know for certain that you're only going to face a known quantity of decks, leveraging the flexibility that Recruiter allows you in the MD is a good idea. With 1 Shusher, 1 Figure, and 1 Heretic in the MD, you get to have a decent target in many different circumstances.

GGoober
08-03-2009, 05:17 PM
agreed. It's the same deal with Trinket Mage package. Many people are reluctant to squeeze EE and Needle in the MD in Dreadstill builds. The greed for more power eventually leads to potential losses where those targets could be useful. Besides, there's no dead targets at all for EE and Needle and since this is Legacy, almost everydeck has some form of artifact in a developed meta. There are decks without artifacts, but I can safely assure that there's much more decks with some or little artifacts than no artifacts.

Hopefully we have a better turnout in TX next time. The prize support was huge in Waco though. It was great!

DrewliusMaximus
08-03-2009, 08:03 PM
Yeah, even with the low turnout, that was a fun road trip (aside from the crickets in the room).

That's an interesting point about toolboxing in Dreadstill too. And in Dreadstill many times there are only 2 Trinket Mages, and some people might want to maximize the number of 3 cc spells for Counterbalance by using bounce spells in place of EE or Needle. In Imperial Painter though, there 4 Recruiters and accelerated mana. Up till now I have looked at it like "Heretic is a underwhelming card in many matchups, so I'll board him in." But after playing against a bunch of different decks, I think I'd be happy to risk a small number of "underwhelming" one-of slots to get a decent variety of tutor-able answers, especially since they're all bodies at least.

Michael Keller
08-04-2009, 04:06 PM
I am currently in the Top 8 with Imperial Painter in The Source Tournament. Check it out here for reference:

Imperial Painter: Top Eight (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14424)

DrewliusMaximus
08-05-2009, 01:44 PM
So how are you liking the MD Heretic Hollywood?

Michael Keller
08-05-2009, 05:16 PM
So how are you liking the MD Heretic Hollywood?

I like him a lot. I'd say I'm pretty much torn even between Kami and Heretic. With Heretic, you get the ass of the three; that can help sometimes. He also deals an indirect source of damage and remains on the table; very important.

Kami can remove something instantly. He disappears, however, after one use and has a toughness of one.

He's been most helpful in some circumstances.

cwt1220
08-09-2009, 01:50 PM
I have found that more often than not, I would like to have a heretic maindeck than the shusher that I usually run. I am going to run 1 main and a hearth kami in the board until I decide what I like better. Also, yesterday at a local tournament, I won a game against Landstill with a chaotic backlash for 24. It was never bad when I caught it, and I am going to keep testing it to get bet a better feel of how it runs.

Just for reference:

1-Viashino Heretic
2-Jaya Ballard
4-Magus of the Moon
4-Simian Spirit Guide
4-Figure of Destiny
4-Painter's Servant
4-Imperial Recruiter

1-Chaotic Backlash
3-Chrome Mox
3-Pyroblast
4-Red Elemental Blast
4-Lightning Bolt
4-Grindstone

4-Ancient Tomb
4-City of Traitors
10-Mountain

SB:

1-Hearth Kami
2-Vexing Shusher
2-Blood Moon
3-Pyrokinesis (don't use it much, Not sure what to put there)
3-Anarchy
4-Relic of Progenitus

-Chris-

MTG-Fan
08-09-2009, 07:12 PM
I've been having alot of success with Duerger Hedge-Mage, which is basically like a better Hearth Kami. I run 4 Plateaus and 2 Sacred Foundry in place of some mountains, and it's been great for me, because it can kill enchantments in addition to artifacts (very useful for blowing up stuff like Moat if your Servants are gone and you need to win via beatdown), and the CITP ability allows it to do its thing even if your opponent has creature removal in hand or pingers on the board.

Michael Keller
08-09-2009, 07:22 PM
SB:

1-Hearth Kami
2-Vexing Shusher
2-Blood Moon
3-Pyrokinesis (don't use it much, Not sure what to put there)
3-Anarchy
4-Relic of Progenitus

-Chris-


I really like Anarchy in the board; a lot of people still don't play it, when it is a very effective removal spell that hits cards like Humility, Moat, O-Ring, etc. I've always been a proponent of it.

Along with Painter, it serves as a complete reset button when you absolutely need it.

cwt1220
08-10-2009, 06:07 PM
Any thoughts on a better card than pyrokinesis? It just doesn't seem to cut it any more, most of the time it will kill just one creature. I'm looking for something to make the zoo matchup a little better.

-Chris-

Esper3k
08-10-2009, 06:16 PM
I suggested Firespout to my friend who plays this deck a lot.

You just have to be careful yourself since it also kills everything in your deck.

However, it'll take out a lot of the creatures Zoo tends to pack (Pridemage, Grim Lavamancer, Kird Ape, Wild Nacatl, a smallish Figure of Destiny). Paying the green for it doesn't matter since Zoo doesn't pack any fliers.

Since you guys don't have a problem getting to 3 mana quickly, you could use it to sweep away the smaller utility guys they tend to put out (Lavamancer, Pridemage), then drop your combo pieces.

MTG-Fan
08-10-2009, 08:15 PM
Pyrokinesis in the SB has been testing fine for me vs. little dude decks.

DrewliusMaximus
08-10-2009, 11:03 PM
I have found that more often than not, I would like to have a heretic maindeck than the shusher that I usually run.

I think I agree here. I ran Heretic MD this last weekend and while it wasn't ever game-breaking, it seemed like I would want Heretic in many more situations than I would want Shusher.

I went 3-1 to get to the Top 4 last weekend, only to lose the dice roll in my first round against storm-combo. He rolled first, getting a 5 from a 20-sided dice. I rolled after, and got a...2. Good ol' ANT, always reminds me to work on my die-rolling skills (of which I have none). Of course, having lost that roll, I ended up dropping that match 1-2, and missed out on the finals. Still, it was a good tournament, even though I had to play Brian and his cheating combo right up at the end.

I beat Cephalid Breakfast round 1, lost to Enchantress round 2 (long games), beat Aggro Loam in round 3, and beat BRG Dark Zoo in round 4.

This was the list:
10 Mountain
1 Foothills
4 Tomb
3 City
4 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Painter
2 Jaya
2 Figure of Destiny
1 Heretic
3 Magma Jet
3 Top
7 Blast
4 Grindstone
SB
4 Trinisphere
3 Relic
3 Firespout
2 Shattering Spree
1 Shusher
2 Blood Moon

I never got to use the Firespouts out of the board (although drawing one against ANT in the last game would have helped wipe out the 16 goblin tokens he had created on turn 3/4), so I can't say how well they work yet. I personally don't like Pyrokinesis anymore because I don't want to give up a card to play it. I was even thinking about Arc Lightning as an underpowered alternative that would at least not create more card disadvantage. For now though, I'm taking the risks associated with blowing up your own dudes and keeping Firespout until it screws me really badly.

Nice suggestion on those Spouts Jeff. And good luck to you and Brian at GenCon!

sroncor1
08-16-2009, 01:25 AM
I recently went 3-0 winning FNM the other night. I wanted to get a quick report and some thoughts while its still fresh in my mind, and I'll update with a decklist later as I have another event on Sunday.

Round 1 vs affinity
The first game I resolve the combo third turn for the win. Bolt was key here as I bought myself a turn by keeping cranial plating from getting insane and bashing my face. I sided out the Jayla Ballards and shusher to bring in 2 Shattering Spree and a Blood Moon(only thing I could think of as the cards I dropped are not so hot here). Game two saw me drop a second turn Magus and then a bolt to buy a tuyrn and a Shattering Spree to wipe his board. He never recovered and I had him locked out mana wise. A REB on thoughtcast sealed the match.

Round 2 vs UWb fish
Game one saw a first turn Magus and then a rather quick scoop. He did eventually get the basic swamp and resolved a Bob, but a bolt and some other dorks sealed the game. Game two was a long drawn out affair. I knew he had needles along with EE so I sided out all my Grindstones. Not sure if this is the right play but I felt comfortable since my guys were better than his guys and I ran more removal. That and Blood Moon would be so strong against him. The second game I keep a slow hand but i know he doesn't play a lot of pressure so I keep. For the longest time we trade threats but eventually a Bob sticks along with my Magus. His life total drops as he buries me in card advantage but I'm abale to fight throw it and eventually get a Recruiter into Figure. Since I had the lands his Daze was worthless and I beat down for the win. At some point I also resolved a Painter's Servent because I had REB backup to protect Figure.

Round 3 vs Merfolk wizards
Game one sees him Daze a first turn Figure but I'm able to puch through a Painter's Servent the second turn with SSG. From here he is way behind in tempo but I draw dead for a few turns then finally Grindstone for the win. Again I ditch the Grindstones and bring in Active Volcano. My thinking is that my guys are better than his and the removal makes it so he can't keep the lords around. This is alos another long affair as he manages to land a Standstill and I thought for sure I would lose to the CA he gained. But I was able to trade my removal since I know essentially had 16 spells to keep it close. magus was still good as it kept Mutavaults from being significant. eventually a Recruiter came into a Figure and i was able to put the match away. It is interesting to note that I lost two of the three games we played for fun afterwards. I know i miss played once but to be fair I was distracted watching the Braves lose to the Phillies on my phone(Apparently nobody likes it as you shout Fuck when little kids are around).

Thoughts:
This deck really does top deck great. I can't remember playing a deck in which your cards are just so much stroinger than your counterpart. I am still not comfortable with the combo matchup but it is so rare and I still think Pyrokinesis belongs in the board so Trinisphere will have to sit the bench. I can't imagine playing without Lightning Bolt. Never was it a dead draw and it really does kill so many creatures in the format. I did drop the Tops this time and I didn't miss them. Shusher was underwhelming but I still like to know I can flip off some shitty Countertop deck game one if I want. I'll post again Sunday with my next event results and a decklist.

cwt1220
08-16-2009, 01:37 AM
Congrats on the finish, and I do agree that it sucks when the braves lose. :frown:

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
08-16-2009, 03:00 PM
sroncor1, did you play with Hollywood's list?

sroncor1
08-16-2009, 06:08 PM
So I ended up splitting in the top going 4-0-1 on the day. The decklist is really close to Hollywood's except I have kept the Vexing Shusher in the main.

Deck
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Painter's Servent
4 SSG
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Viashino heretic
1 Vexing Shusher
2 jaya Ballard
4 Grindstone
4 REB
3 Pyroblast
3 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountains

Side
4 Blood Moon
4 Active Volcano
3 Shattering Spree
4 Pyrokinesis

Round 1 vs sceptor chant
I drop a first turn Magus and he procedes to drop a second turn chant with Boomerang. he bounces my lands for a bit while I beat for two a turn. He fires a magus but I drop another one the next turn and then use SSG to drop a Recruiter into a Painter's Servent. Looing at my notes a bolt may have been thrown at his face but his life slowly drops to 0. For game 2 I take out the bolts and side in Blood Moon and drop the Shusher and 1 Jaya Ballard for the 2 Shattering Spree. I stick a first turn Figure and slowly start to beat. A second turn Magus is hit with a Lightning Helix, but I follow it up with Blood Moon and a Painter's Servent after that. The next turn after the Servent he tries to drop another sceptor but I have the REB and the round is over thanks to the beats.
1-0 (2-0)

Round 2 vs Rock
Game one I lose the die role and resolve a 1st turn Magus. He decides to scoop as the Scrubland he has in play doesn't have a STP to go with it. I side much the same way i did first round by taking out the bolts and bring in the Blood Moons. On my first turn I drop a Grindstone. My second turn Magus eats a STP. He then drops a Doran and my hand is really light with only a REB as relavent. Luckily I draw the Painter's Servent and the match is over.
2-0 (4-0)

Round 3 vs Painter Servent
We both decide to draw so that we can play some type four as it has been a while since I have gotten to play with these guys from back home. His version does not run Imperial Recruiters so it also doesn't have the tutor tragetsI know he uses Magma Jets but not sure what else he plays. Either way it doesn't matter as the mirror is boring and taking out akroma with a Chaos orb is so much better.
2-0-1 (4-0)

Round 4 vs Dreadstill
Game 1 I again lose the diee role. My notes are lacking but I think I had an early Magus dazed and then he got a third turn Dreadnought. My life total drops very quickly after that. I know I had like 3 REB effects in hand but I was tapped out when he did Dreadnought/Stifle. I guess maybe I shouldn't have tapped out like i did but I was hoping to lock him off of blue. For game 2 out go the bolts along with Jaya Ballard for the Active volcano and Shattering Spree. I figured Jaya wouldn't really help with the Dreadnoughts and I wanted cheap removal. I would have loved to board in the Blood Moon, but I was at a lost of what to remove. But thinking back no, maybe the Figures are sort of not needed here. He runs so few threats, I just need a few dorks and more answers and semi lock piece maybe? Game 2 saw him FoW mt Chrome Mox and a stifle and then a Trickbind of the Grindstone, but the third time was the charm as I comboed him out on turn 5. Game 3 I dropped a first turn Painter's Sevent with a Chrome Mox imprinting SSG. he goes to FoW and I say REB and he resolves. Second turn I drop the Grindstone and he again has Trickbind. My next turn is the end of the game.
3-0-1(6-1)

Top 4
I'm the top seed going in and get repaired against the Rock deck from before. Again I lose the die roll. I use Chrome Mox and Ancient Tomb to resolve a Magus. He has a Swamp so he plays it out but his life total slowly drops helped by some thoughtseizing, but it ends in 6 turns. I side out the bolts and bring in the Blood Moons and go on to game 2. My first two Magus are removed with STP and this really hurt as I had to burn through City of Traitors to make the play. Eventually I land a Blood Moon and he has a goyf. a Recruiter into a Figure stops the attack and I slowly wait till i get up to 6 mana sources and the match is over quickly.
4-0-1(8-1)

Split the finals, it was a goblin deck though so I'm not sure how that woudl have gone.
Lightning Bolt is still great even though I sided it out a lot. Moon effects are just too good not to run 8 I think. Even when you seem behind the deck finds a way to power through as some of our top decks are just so strong and a cheap 2 card combo backed up with solid disruption really ruins people's days. Hollywood was right that Active Volcano is amazing. I'm still not sure how it stacks up vs. other combo decks.

@Hollywood-Are you still playing in the DC area?

comeback
08-18-2009, 03:07 AM
Is someone testing a gamble-welder version that allow to tutoring, to play artifacts from graveyard with a welder in place and combo with the painter in graveyard?

Card to replace could be:

OUT
-2 Sensei's Top
-1 Grindstone
-1/2 Reb
-1 Jaya
-4 Mountain

IN
+3 Gamble
+2/3 Welder
+4 Great Furnace

sroncor1
08-18-2009, 11:52 AM
I think a few people have tried the gamble/welder split and have since abandoned it. I tried it and while it does allow you to tutor up the combo I always found it at best ok. But that is just my experience. Although I would not cut any blast effects to force it in the deck. I'm only running seven now and I wish I could fit more. I use to run top but really without fetchlands it to is underpowered and right now I doubt there is any reason to open the deck up to nonbasic hate. That really is one of the strongest aspects of the deck and I win as many games with Magus as I do any other way. Don't get me wrong, the combo is fantastic, but winning with Magus and Figure happen just as often and it gives the deck so much flexibility. Also if you run the tutor package you mentioned, it becomes more difficult o side out the grindstones and win through beatdown and board control as you are making the maindeck more reliant on the combo. Just my two cents.

DrewliusMaximus
08-18-2009, 09:02 PM
I was playing a build with 1-2 Welders and 1-2 Gambles for a while and it worked pretty well. I went away from it because Gamble was too inconsistent, and Figure of Destiny turned out to be a better way to handle the rise of Zoo. Figure is actually just an all-around awesome addition to the deck that addresses some of the old weaknesses (having all fragile creatures, lacking a finisher, etc), and can use the excess mana that this deck creates to win games pretty quickly without depending at all on Painter. That said, Welders do some pretty cool tricks and a lucky Gamble won several games for me. The build I was using did not use artifact lands, and I kept 3 Tops. I still like Tops in this deck anyways, but especially with Welder, it seems like a must.

sroncor1
08-22-2009, 07:57 PM
I'll be playing the deck Sunday in an event in Rockville, MD. The other day I was playing against goblins and I think I won around 40 percent of the games. Granted these were all preboard, but I do not know if pyrokinesis is enough to swing the match in my favor. Maybe advice on how to approach the matchup also. Its just been so long since I have seen goblins and now I think there will be a few goblins Sunday and I hate to roll over to them, sort of like what happens with Zoo. Thanks

DrewliusMaximus
08-23-2009, 09:13 PM
I'll be playing the deck Sunday in an event in Rockville, MD. The other day I was playing against goblins and I think I won around 40 percent of the games. Granted these were all preboard, but I do not know if pyrokinesis is enough to swing the match in my favor. Maybe advice on how to approach the matchup also. Its just been so long since I have seen goblins and now I think there will be a few goblins Sunday and I hate to roll over to them, sort of like what happens with Zoo. Thanks

Well this is too late for this weekend, but my thought is to go with Firespout in the SB, and make sure you have 1 Viashino Heretic somewhere and maybe a few Shattering Sprees. I say this as someone who uses Tops though, which helps recover from a boardsweep. But if you have a full clip of Figures, all you have to do is get one to 4/4 and Firespout away everything else.

sroncor1
08-28-2009, 07:59 AM
Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

sroncor1
08-28-2009, 08:20 AM
So I ended up going 2-3. Not much to really report. I made some misplays and lost to a janky fish type deck dying to 3 Serra Avengers and 4 blast effects in hand. I managed to beat zoo but do not think pyrokinesis belongs in the board any more. Blood moon was a house in that matchup. I'm going to put Trinisphere back in the board. I managed to beat dredge and I guess that matchup is better than I thought. Even though I didn't do that great I still think people should be using 4 bolts maindeck as they are almost never dead and they saved my ass more than once. Med school is kicking up now so I don't know how much I will get to play but good luck to everyone.

DrewliusMaximus
08-30-2009, 10:58 PM
After trying Dreadstill last weekend, I played the deck I know best today in a small tournament. My list was:

10 Mountain
1 Foothills
4 Tomb
3 City
4 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
2 Figure
1 Heretic
4 Magma Jet
2 Top
7 Blast
4 Grindstone
SB
4 Trinisphere
3 Relic
3 Firespout
2 Blood Moon
2 Shattering Spree
1 Shusher

I beat WG Stax in round 1, lost to Ultimate Walker in round 2, and beat BGW Rock-ish Control in round 3 to make top 4. I won in a rematch with Ultimate Walker and then decided to split with Countertop in the finals.

This manabase has treated me well for several tournaments now. Especially with Figures in there, the swapping of 1 colorless land for another red source seems to make sense in the deck. And as always, the Tops and Jets smoothed out draws at crucial times.

The Ultimate Walker build that my friend was playing used Lightning Helix and Volcanic Fallouts, so Magus was much less effective than I expected he'd be. I really wanted a third Moon in the board against everyone today except Stax. What to take out though? Even though he can be life-saving, I could see replacing Shusher with another Moon, or I could use one of the Firespout slots. I guess it's a matter of equalizing bad match-ups or strengthening decent ones.

cwt1220
09-17-2009, 02:39 PM
I am going to have to necro this thread to see if anyone has done anything with this deck lately. Does this card serve any purpose at all?

Goblin Ruinblaster 2R
Creature - Goblin Shaman
Kicker R - (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)
Haste
When Goblin Ruinblaster enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target nonbasic land.
2/1

Seems like it has potential as a tutor-able creature with an ability that may be relevant.

-Chris-

sroncor1
09-18-2009, 04:19 PM
I do not see why we would want the card though. If we wanted targeted land removal wouldn't Dwarvin Miner just be better. I think between Magus and Blood Moon you are set with the LD package. Unless you are thinking about complimenting it and being able to kill basics. But at that point wouldn't it just be better to either tutor up Figure and beat face or get Jaya and lock them out. It isn't a bad card but I don't see how it makes the deck any better.

DrewliusMaximus
09-18-2009, 07:42 PM
Yeah, Ruinblaster shouldn't get in over any of the existing cards. Like sroncor1 said, it's redundant mana denial and is going to be inferior to Magus almost every time.

I played last Sunday with IP in a 10-man tourney and went 2-1, losing to URW Walker and beating UR Fish and Affinity. I didn't get into top 4 though. I'll be playing it again this weekend.

gamegeek2
09-18-2009, 11:31 PM
@sroncor, Hollywood - I'm in the DC area. Would any of you happen to play at Dream Wizards in rockville?

sroncor1
09-19-2009, 07:08 PM
Yeah I play at Dreamwizards when I get the chance. A couple weeks ago I played in an FNM tourny and went 3-0 with the same list except I put Trinisphere in the board. I beat countertop, merfolk, and MBC. Nothing really to report except MBC may be the easiest deck for us to beat as I can't even think of one card they have that is relavent to us. The deck just seems like complete ass to me.

sroncor1
09-24-2009, 11:42 PM
I figured I would give this deck a bump. Is anyone playing it and if so what have there results been? Or is this a situation where the deck has basically just evolved to a point where not much changes?

cwt1220
09-27-2009, 01:44 AM
I have set the deck aside for now, because my meta is a TON of aggro, and I usually get raped by all the zoo and goyf sligh. I am playing Ichorid now, but will always have painter built and ready to go.

-Chris-

sroncor1
09-28-2009, 12:30 PM
If your having problem with zoo try adding chain lightning to the board. That with the maindeck lightning bolts and bllod moon and trinispheres in the board should be enough to slow those decks down. Merfolk should be a dream matchup for you esp. If they splash green for goyf as your moon effects really hit them hard. I'm not going to say that the red burn aggro matchups are easy but I think you can turn them into nearly 50/50 or maybe better.

cwt1220
09-28-2009, 12:46 PM
I have never had a problem with merfolk, that deck is an absolute roll. I have tried trinisphere against zoo, but it is the burn spells killing the painter, and the 4 md pridemage.

-Chris-

P.S. I posted my list in the pimp deck thread, check it out.

DrewliusMaximus
09-28-2009, 04:13 PM
I think the Zoo matchup isn't going to be favorable unless you dedicate some crazy slots in the SB. If you happen to get an early Blood Moon though, you're golden. I try to take out at least half of the stuff that relies on Painter because of what you said cwt1220, and board in the Moons, more burn, Relic, and possibly Trinisphere. Then I just hope for the best. Figure of Destiny has helped this matchup a little bit also.


I figured I would give this deck a bump. Is anyone playing it and if so what have there results been? Or is this a situation where the deck has basically just evolved to a point where not much changes?

It seems like there are still differing approaches to this deck. I played yesterday and the Sunday before. I scrubbed out two weekends ago going 2-2 losing to URW Walker and Mono-W Stax, but I won yesterday going 3-1 and then beating Aggro Loam in the top 4 (my only loss during normal rounds) and 43 Land in the final. I still use Tops and Jets, but I've tried to incorporate stuff like Figures and a MD Heretic too. The list I used yesterday was:

10 Mountain
1 Foothills
4 Tomb
3 City
4 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
2 Figure
1 Heretic
1 Shusher
6 Blast
3 Jet
3 Top
4 Grindstone
SB
3 Trinisphere
3 Relic
3 Blood Moon
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Shattering Spree

thorin_the_king
09-29-2009, 11:20 AM
Hi there everyone, I've been following this thread since the early begginings and patiently collecting all the cards to make the deck. Now it's finished and going to test it in a big tournament here in Spain this sunday. Anyway, here's my list that i want to share with you:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [P3] Mountain (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [P3] Mountain (1)
3 [P3] Mountain (3)
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
2 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 [UL] Viashino Heretic
1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
3 [EVE] Figure of Destiny

// Spells
4 [IA] Pyroblast
3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [4E] Lightning Bolt
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 2 [DK] Blood Moon
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [AL] Pyrokinesis
SB: 4 [DS] Trinisphere

I like to have an aggro option so that's why i play 3 figures, but top also has saved my ass so many times that's is worth it's inclusion. However, i play bolts over jets cause i think it's better to have a one mana answer to any threat and the extra damage over jet it's relevant for me. I know it doen't scry but the single fetchland, top, and grindstone + top allows me to dig very well in my deck.

As for sb options, it seems that pyrokinesis is not an option for many of you now. It's benn very useful for me, I tested 3 volcanic fallouts instead but I prefer to make an impact in only one side of the table. This is the slot where I have more doubts for the tournament. I've also considered the firespout option, but I don't know what to do.

The tournament is going to be big, +100 people so i expect to see pretty much every deck played in legacy, but i think this list has potential and it's not very played here, so maybe it's gonna be a surprise.

Thoughts about it?

Rath
09-29-2009, 12:35 PM
As for sb options, it seems that pyrokinesis is not an option for many of you now. It's benn very useful for me, I tested 3 volcanic fallouts instead but I prefer to make an impact in only one side of the table. This is the slot where I have more doubts for the tournament. I've also considered the firespout option, but I don't know what to do.

The problem with Pyrokinesis is that you are suffering card disadvantage, and only dealing 4 damage with it. Your main use is going to be for Zoo, and 4 dmg does not go far enough. Firespout deals with goblins, merfolk (which you already should roll), and most of zoo's creatures. Unfortunately, you will also be killing your board as well... its a tough call, but I tend to run the blood moons + trinisphere + firespout in place of of stuff that relies on painter against Zoo.

Good luck with the deck! It has been a blast for me with multiple outs, win conditions and very explosive first turns.

DrewliusMaximus
09-29-2009, 10:29 PM
That's a good list Thorin. Seems nice and balanced. As far as Pyrokinesis, I tend to agree with Rath: I don't like the card disadvantage and many times it can't be used efficiently enough. If you're only running 3 Lightning Bolts in the main, why not put a 4th in the SB and then have 2 other burn spells? Firespout as a 2-of actually sounds good to me as a safety valve if you get into trouble after using your one-sided burn. In fact, I might try that.

sroncor1
10-02-2009, 05:19 PM
In response to pyrokinesis, it is very hard to even get card parity with it let alone card advantage. When most creatures are x/3 the card just isn't that good bc the -1 card advantage for 1 to their dome just fucking sucks. That being said the card is still really strong against dragon stompy and fish decks and ww variants. Maybe I have been getting lucky with zoo, but I don't see it as a terrible matchup. I think everyone by now should be running 4 Blood Moons in the board. With Magus being arguably the strongest card in the deck why not run 4 more. I personally cut the tops although I do like them I just felt using them really took me out of the aggro plan. I think the real key to the deck is understanding that you don't give a fuck if you can't combo off bc you will just beat your opponent another way. That is why the deck is so strong. Everyone has to respect a 2 card combo but we really don't need it to win.
Remember against zoo you basically run 14 creatures they have to deal with. That should keep enough burn away from your face. It doesn't work always and sometimes you take the double lightning bolt, fireblast to the face but what can you do. I honestly think if you run 4 lightning bolts main with 4 blood moons in the board you should have a real fighting chance against zoo. The chain lightning, will further help that. I tried some of the mass removal burn but being able to target their creature that is most relavent always seemed much stronger than me. Kird apes aren't really that big of a problem nad you have to assume pridemages are just going to get popped due to all the artifacts we play. I can easily see how the top/magma jet lists have problem vs zoo and goyf sligh due to the extra irrelavent cards they have in their deck. To make room for the chain lightnings try and dump shattering spree or cut down on trinisphere as it serves as more of a compliment to our plans. I hope these ideas help and good luck on sunday!
Ps. I did this on my blackberry on a bus to see The Boss at the Meadowlands so I'm sorry for gramatical and spelling errors.

Maggical
10-08-2009, 07:26 AM
I'm interested in building this deck but it's impossible for me to get any Imperial Recruiter due to it's cost...

How would you build this without it?

Thanks a lot,

Javier

Valdez
10-08-2009, 09:14 AM
The same way you would build Goyfsligh, without Goyf, AdNT without Ad Nauseam, and NO Thresh without NO...

Srsly, its like a wheelchair, without wheels...

Maggical
10-08-2009, 09:26 AM
The same way you would build Goyfsligh, without Goyf, AdNT without Ad Nauseam, and NO Thresh without NO...

Srsly, its like a wheelchair, without wheels...

I was hoping to get another answer :P Jajajaja... Saw this one coming, but the deck seems fun and wanted to give it a try...

Thanks,

Javier

sroncor1
10-08-2009, 11:42 AM
@Maggical: Well you could try things with Gamble and Goblin Welder, but there really isn't anything that can do what Recruiter does. That being said you could do it especially if you choose a white splash for Enlightened Tutor. However this will make the deck more of a combo deck and really not able to go the aggro route with the Figures. You might try something like this(modified from my list):

-4 Lightning Bolts
-1 Vexing Shusher
-1 Viashino Heritec
-4 Figure of Destiny
-4 Imperial Recruiter

+ 4 Gamble
+ 3 Top
+3 Enlightened Tutor
+4 Goblin Welder

That would give you redundancy, although you would have to balance the mana. (fetch would make the Tops very strong though) Again I threw this together as a starting point and I am not sure if it is even playable. It will def. play as a different deck though. I hope this helps. Sorry if anything is spelled wrong, I'm just too tired to check or care.

Maggical
10-08-2009, 12:51 PM
I wouldn't play fetchs playing 8 moon effects, but Gamble seems a good option along with Welder...

I'll think more about it, thanks a lot...

Javier

sroncor1
10-09-2009, 02:19 PM
Running fetches with Magus should not really affect you. yes there will be some times when the Enlightened Tutor sits in your hand due to a moon effect, but hopefully that moon effect should be enough to dictate the game. I would not recommend 8 moon effects main. At most run 5 so that the one Blood Moon can be fetched with Enlightened Tutor. There are some match ups where Magus is just a Grey Ogre. Blood Moon can't even do that.

cwt1220
10-11-2009, 11:38 AM
4 Magus is always the right number, there is no way around that. I run 3 Blood Moon in the board. Before I got the money together, I ran with 1 recruiter, and I ran 1 extra jaya, and a moon, and 1 extra shusher. It never quite worked as well or was as fast, but it is a good way to get used to playing the deck.

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
10-13-2009, 03:17 PM
Before I got the money together, I ran with 1 recruiter, and I ran 1 extra jaya, and a moon, and 1 extra shusher. It never quite worked as well or was as fast, but it is a good way to get used to playing the deck.

While the deck will never be optimal without Recruiters, this is good advice. Using Welders/Gambles is good too, even with Recruiters.

I took the deck to Philly and went 3-3 drop. I lost the first match to Merfolk with bad draws game 1 and 2. Then I won the next 3 matches against Stax, Elves, and Charbelcher. I lost the fifth match to Bant Aggro due to 2 massive play mistakes in the first game, and mana screw the second. Finally, I lost to Merfolk again after winning the first game, and then making an impatient decision to attack with a 4/4 Figure in the second game rather than sit behind him and continue to Jaya-ping for the win. So I lost that second game and then got run over quickly in the third. I dropped after that to draft.

While the overall result was bad, the deck put me in position to do better, I just screwed it up. I'm definitely still getting used to the Figures. They tempt me to play aggressive sometimes when they actually work just as well as defensive walls to hold off attacks while picking your opponent apart with Jaya or digging for the combo.

Philly was awesome. 4 of us from Houston showed up, and one of us won the whole damn thing. Congrats to Brian "my games take way too long" Peters for representin team Asgards!

Maggical
10-14-2009, 01:30 PM
So, I'm thinking of running this build tomorrow, just for fun... Any ideas?

Maindeck:

4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Blood Moon
4x Magma Jet
3x Pyroblast
3x Red Elemental Blast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Painter's Servant
4x Grindstone
2x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Chrome Mox

10x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors

Sideboard:

3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Blood Moon
3x Pithing Needle
4x Shattering Spree
4x Volcanic Fallout

Main concerns:

Should I add Figure of Destiny? What do you think about 1x Chandra Ablaze, I think it would be a good way of searching for the combo parts and it can be cast soon...

I know this won't replace the Recruiter, but for a just for fun list I think it will work...

klaus
10-14-2009, 02:32 PM
So, I'm thinking of running this build tomorrow, just for fun... Any ideas?

Maindeck:

4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Blood Moon
4x Magma Jet
3x Pyroblast
3x Red Elemental Blast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Painter's Servant
4x Grindstone
2x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Chrome Mox

10x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors

Sideboard:

3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Blood Moon
3x Pithing Needle
4x Shattering Spree
4x Volcanic Fallout

Main concerns:

Should I add Figure of Destiny? What do you think about 1x Chandra Ablaze, I think it would be a good way of searching for the combo parts and it can be cast soon...

I know this won't replace the Recruiter, but for a just for fun list I think it will work...

I would DEFINITELY cut those 2 Tops!
You don't have a single shuffle effect, making Top useless.

Boasting 8 burn spells, your list looks like it wants to go aggro every game [especially so, since you don't run Recruiter for more combo kills], the problem being even with Jaya there is not nearly enough burn to take your opponent out the direct damage way. Adding some aggro creatures (you don't have ANY so far) to get those 7-10 extra dmg in should be a wise move.
I would probably go -2 Top and -1 Bolt, -1 Jet, +3 Figure, +1 Arc-Slogger :cool: and replace those 3 SB Crypts with Relics, for sure.

Maggical
10-14-2009, 02:35 PM
Thanks a lot, I'll take that into account tonight as I build the deck... Any other suggestions?

comeback
10-15-2009, 04:03 AM
I'm actually testing the following RW versions:

Lands - 19
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
4x Plateau
1x Plain
1x Mountain
4x Sacred Mesa
2x Great Furnace

Mana Accelerations - 6
3x Chrome Mox
3x Simian Spirit Guide

Combo - 7
4x Painter's Servant
3x Grindstone

Tutors - 7
3x Enlightened Tutor
4x Imperial Recruiter

Other Creatures - 9
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Figure of Destiny
1x Jaya, Task Mage
1x Vexing Shusher

Other Artifacts - 2
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sensei's Diving Top

Other Istants&Sorceries - 10
4x Magma Jet
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Pyroblast

Sideboard
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
4x Thorn of Ametyst
1x Vexing Shusher
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Ghostly Prison
3x Pithing Needle

My main doubts are related to the powerfull of Figure of Destiny that I can never use for all them strenght... they rarely become 4/4 also if I've seen they are always the first target of StP!

What I've seen is that miss:
:1: a creature that could help me to use all the strenght represented by sword of light&shadow, once it's in play and you are quite sure to dealt combat damage you can work around counterspell!

:2: a nice enchantment that can assure the right lock just to fill your hands of painters grindstone and reb!

Side is principally against burn and ant and zoo, relic & needle are multipurpose and vexing it's the second slot against countertop.

Any suggests?

chokin
10-15-2009, 06:12 AM
Figure is supposed to eat removal so your Painter's don't. Sulfer Elemental has Split Second, effectively making him immune to counters, but he isn't a guaranteed connect. Dragon Whelp is more likely to connect with an opponent, but a pinch slower.

I wouldn't run less than 4 Grindstones, personally. Yes, you can tutor for them, but it eats a draw. Right now it's more like you have 7 Grindstones when you could be running 8.

Maggical
10-15-2009, 10:20 AM
I came up with this last night, I'm going to play at a casual 3 swiss rounds league today with it...

Maindeck:

4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Chandra Ablaze
4x Magus of the Moon
2x Blood Moon
4x Magma Jet
3x Pyroblast
3x Red Elemental Blast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Painter's Servant
4x Grindstone
4x Figure of Destiny

3x Chrome Mox

10x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors

Sideboard:

2x Vexing Shusher
3x Pyroclasm
3x Powder Keg
2x Relic of the Progenitus
2x Pithing Needle
1x Blood Moon
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast

I'll let you know how it goes...

sroncor1
10-15-2009, 01:35 PM
You may be able to get by running 3 Grindstones with the tutor effects. Like I said earlier, it is really up to how you want to pilot the deck. I do think however that less than 7 blast effects is a mistake. I would have 8 in my build if I had room.

@comeback- I would drop the top and the SoLaS. If you want equipment run jitte. It is always amazing as long as you have creatures. You need Painter to make SoLaS great and really if you have painter and he sticks you should be able to win. Top without shuffle effects just seems bad, and I don't count E.Tutor as a shuffle effect. I still think Magma jet just isn't strong enough to run. The basic question is what can you kill with it. Lightning bolt really should be in its place. You should have a Heritic in the main also as he is a total house.

@Maggical-You shouldn't have 3 Jaya Ballard in your deck. Without the Recruiter I might be inclined to straight up cut her as she becomes inconsistent. And I really think you are running too many moon effects in the main. It is more of a meta call but they are a dead draw often. you do not need 8 burn spells as I think you are pulling the deck in too many directions. the deck's strength lies in the fact that it can play numerous roles, due to overall flexibilty in its cards. Burn spells are very inflexible cards and when you start running 8 you are getting to the point were you want to go aggro and run more removal so your dorks get through.

I hope this helps and good luck

Maggical
10-16-2009, 07:20 AM
I played the deck and finished 3-0, it worked really well to say the truth, I'm very pleased with it...

The Figures were amazing really, thanks for the catch...

cwt1220
10-18-2009, 12:14 AM
Congrats on the finish, now just pick up some recruiters and the deck will run so much better. lol

-Chris-

Maggical
10-19-2009, 07:14 AM
Congrats on the finish, now just pick up some recruiters and the deck will run so much better. lol

-Chris-

Yeah, like that's the easy part :D Jajajajaja...

DrewliusMaximus
10-21-2009, 02:01 PM
Nice job Maggical. I guess the deck is decent even without hundred-dollar uncommons.

I played in Austin this weekend, and here is a brief summary of how it went.

Friday

I play the following list:
10 Mountain
1 Mire
1 Foothills
4 Tomb
3 City
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
3 Jaya
3 Figure
1 Shusher
1 Heretic
6 Blast
4 Grindstone
2 Top
2 Jet
SB
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Trinisphere
3 Relic
3 Moon
2 Shattering Spree

I can't even remember who/what I played in the first two matches but I won them. In match 3 I played the Aggro Loam guy from Austin who split the top 2. These games weren't even close, as I didn't draw anything fast, and he basically had the nuts against me both games. I still felt pretty good as long as I didn't face any more Aggro Loam. So the next match, I face....Aggro Loam. I won the first game with a turn 3 or 4 combo, despite him having out Seismic Assault. He only had 1 land to pitch. But he played weird stuff. I only saw lands and Assault, and for some reason, I thought he was playing 43 Lands with Seismic Assault, so I boarded in Moons and had a bunch of dead cards in game 2, which I lost. In game 3, I got a first turn Relic, 2nd turn Jaya, 3rd turn Servant, and started killing his lands. I had the game under control, and got him down to very low life when he finally managed to Devastating Dreams the board. We were both left with 0 lands, but I kept back some lands and a Figure. He went on the topdeck exactly what he needed over the next 3 turns - a second land (w/ Loam), and Seismic Assault. So he won, and I dropped at 2-2.

This may sound stupid, but from my games on Friday, and last weekend in Philly, I think Heretic is too slow. Even though I can Recruit him, by the time I play him and activate his ability, it is usually too late. I'd rather have a 3rd Spree, so I made the following changes from Saturday's 8-man pick-up, MD: -1 Heretic, +1 Jet, SB: -1 Moon, +1 Spree.

I played Dark Depths in match 1, and I think I won game 1. I know he got the Depths Combo on me one game, but I took the other two. In match 2, I played a super aggro Goblins deck with Chrome Mox and Warren Instigator. Luckily, I was able to remove the early drops in both games, or at least drop Figure to block on turn 1, so I won in 2. Match 3, Goblins again. This was a more standard RG build, but again I was able to avoid early Lackey unfariness, so I won this match too. Yay, 3-0 to win the 8-man!

On Sunday, I play with the same list as Saturday, and start by losing to the Merfolk player who I think went to the Finals. I was able to handle the Merfolk in at least one of the games, but he was splashing for Goyf and I never saw the combo, so he beat me down pretty fast in 2 games. Match 2, I play Goblins, and win in 2 games. Match 3, I play URB countertop, and win on the back of Moon with Figure beatdown. Match 4, I play Faieries and win in 2. Match 5, I play a Spaniard piloting another Merfolk deck splashing White. Game 1, I am able to lock him out of colors with a Magus for a while and beat him down to 2, but he draws a Plains and STP's Magus, and proceeds to beat me down. Game 2, answer most of his early threats, and have the combo, but he Needles Grindstone. I am able to find the Blast I need to kill Grindstone, but he plays Standstill before I can play it. I try to kill the Needle, but he draws into STP. I get another chance to win though by drawing Figure and some other guys, but my brain stops working at this point: I have a Mountain, City and Blast in hand, and 3 Mountains on the board. For some reason, I attempt to pump Figure to 4/4 without playing my 4th Mountain first. He Blue Blasts my Figure in response, and from that point I fall to far behind and lose. Match 6, I play Ichorid and win in 2. At 4-2, I ended up in 9th...no Top 8 for me.

Although Jaya kept me in contention in at least one Aggro Loam game, she was a little too slow against Merfolk to have 3. I want to swap the 3rd Jaya out for a 4th Figure. That guy is great. Aside from that, I was happy with the list.

cwt1220
10-23-2009, 11:56 PM
I cut heretic a while ago, because he was to slow, and mostly useless. I find 4 Figure to be the right number, and 4 lightning bolt is a necessity as well.

-Chris-

woremak
10-25-2009, 08:53 PM
I was looking through some old legacy lists and stumbled across the U/R builds of painter. Are those builds played anymore? It seems that adding blue for Trinket Mage would add some consistency, especially with Scalding Tarn making it possible to fetch basic islands. Thoughts?

cwt1220
10-25-2009, 11:55 PM
I was looking through some old legacy lists and stumbled across the U/R builds of painter. Are those builds played anymore? It seems that adding blue for Trinket Mage would add some consistency, especially with Scalding Tarn making it possible to fetch basic islands. Thoughts?

I tested with a couple different blue splashes before and I liked that you can play it more "control" like, but it doesn't have the explosiveness of mono-red. Trinket mage was a nice addition along with fire/ice and ponder, but I always wanted more speed out of the deck and you just had to cut to many good cards from current lists to make a blue splash consistent and powerful.

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
10-26-2009, 10:02 PM
I tried splashing blue briefly, but that was before the UR fetchland. In addition to Trinket Mage, you also get Llawan Cephalid Empress, who can be ridiculously good in this deck. But splashing means you make your manabase vulnerable, and makes Magus/Moon more conditional. I like the mono-red version because I hate losing to manabase problems, and the deck is almost exclusively better under a Moon effect. With the new fetchland though, it might allow for a subtle splash where you play 3-4 Fire/Ice, 1-2 Trinket Mage, and 1 Llawan, and you wouldn't destabilize the manabase as much.

baghdadbob
10-26-2009, 10:53 PM
Hey guys! I haven't posted in some time. I was playing u/w painter for sometime and found it quite useless and bad. http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13437&highlight=u%2Fw+painter So I have moved onto playing r/u. It is really really solid I must say. You get red blasts for your blue mu's and blue blasts for goblins and other such nonsense. I refuse to spend the money to get the imperial recruiters so trinket mage is the man. I'm trying to come up with a tournament playable list and will probably post in n and d sometime soon.

Lands
4x Mountain
6x Island
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Scalding Tarns

Creatures
4x Blood Moon
4x Phyrexian Dreadnuts
4x Painter
4x Trinket Mage

Spells
4x Chrome Mox
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
2x Red Blasts
2x Pyro Blasts
4x Stifle
4x Grindstone
2x Trickbind

SB
2x Hydro Blast
2x Blue Elemental Blast
11x ???

This is a very basic list but I'm interested in The Sources thoughts.

Maggical
10-27-2009, 07:25 AM
You need Volcanic Islands asap... And the Noughts are just a bad choice, if you want control you should get more control cards there, instead of the Nought and get rid of those Trickbinds...

You can put Ponders to shuffle and search for the combo quicker, as well as other cards for the same reason...

Javier

baghdadbob
10-27-2009, 11:27 AM
The thing is that what my U/W version was missing was threats. I'm not really trying to play the control spot. I can see that you would think that with the force of wills and magus. Also I'm not really trying to dispute your arguments. However I use these cards to get my threats through and not to control my opponents. In general my threats are going to be more dangerous then tarmagoyf and nimble mongoose. The only cards I'm really looking to counter are Pridemage, Tyrgon Predator, Creature Removal, and counterspells on my threats. How I have been playing it is sort of in waves of threats. Sometimes I can drop the first turn dreadnaught which is very nice. Some times I can drop painter and grind first turn. Sometimes I drop Magus first turn. The only thing this deck doesn't do that imperial does is play the beat down. But I do have brainstorms and will add more draw (ponder). I played imperial for a while and noticed that it ran out of gas quickly and you had to go into topdeck mode. Which sucks. :mad: So I think some draw and shuffle will really go the difference. I think I would be willing to drop the naughts though. Even though you can get the first turner. Just my 2 cents.

Also Volcanic Island + Magus + $130 a playset = Me not buying Islands.

Maggical
10-27-2009, 01:16 PM
Beyond what you say, this deck should be a combo deck, you shouldn't be wasting slots on cards that creates new threats, you should use those slots to maximize and accelerate your combo...

That's where, imo, you are missing the point...

cwt1220
10-27-2009, 01:19 PM
Beyond what you say, this deck should be a combo deck, you shouldn't be wasting slots on cards that creates new threats, you should use those slots to maximize and accelerate your combo...

That's where, imo, you are missing the point...

I couldn't agree more.

-Chris-

Michael Keller
10-27-2009, 01:26 PM
I think the debate could be open to include blue as a more prominent choice in Imperial Painter now that Scalding Tarn exists.

You see, keeping the deck mono-red allows for a good deal of consistency because of Magus of the Moon; it helps a great deal in that you didn't have to worry about running into another color in the deck and not be able to produce that color because of the effect. Being stuck on a separate fetch without being able to seek the other color was, in my opinion, one of the main reasons I was such a strong advocate of keeping the deck mono-red.

Not anymore.

There is reason to believe adding a strong second color (in blue) will help add an even greater level of consistency to an already suicidal play-style. Don't get me wrong: I absolutely love the deck as simply red. However, I'm simply advocating the addition of blue because now you have the ability to search for either of the two colors in the deck without setting yourself back on drawing one or the other fetch (i.e. Bloodstained Mire + Polluted Delta, etc.).

The deck desperately needed some raw ability to draw or search for cards, and this is a blatantly visible option that should not be tossed aside.

baghdadbob
10-27-2009, 04:09 PM
Alright I'll admit I have no idea what I'm running for the lands. But this list I have been testing on MWS has been doing really well.

Lands

4x Ancient Tomb
12x ??????

Creatures

4x Trinket Mage
4x Painters Servant

Spells

4x Grindstone
4x Chrome Mox
4x Blood Moon
4x Red Blast
2x Pyro Blast
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
2x Ponder
4x Swerve
4x Brainstorm

Give it a test run if you'd like. I really love the swerve but feel like I might be able to just run it as s/b tech against discard and maybe up to 4 ponders or 6 moon effects. :confused:

s/b in the works but will be something like....

4x volcanic fallout- zoo is prominent in my area
4x hydro blast- dragon stompy and goblins are also big
2x blue blasts
????

ryO!
10-28-2009, 09:49 AM
well thing is this is an imperial painter thread, that is to say the deck has to use it...

anyway how about this one (not mine) posted some times ago, it could be a start to a splashed version of IP :
as side note it ended 6th @ Bazaar of Moxen 3 (legacy)
// FORMAT :
1 Badlands
1 Great Furnace
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Vexing Shusher
3 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Chrome Mox
2 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Magus of the Moon
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Firespout
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus


i really like this version, that look pretty much like a T1 deck, including mostly only 1 of each cards but many ways to get them. But maybe it s seems like the deck wanna handle MD too much MU... don't know but it seems it has some consistency anyway.

i ll test the R version of it anyway this saturday :
I ll play the following list:

10 Mountain
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
3 Figure
1 Shusher
1 Heretic
6 Blast
4 Grindstone
unsure part
3 lightning bolt
2 jitte
1 SoLS
/
4 lightning bolt
4 Magma Jet
SB
3 Trinisphere
3 Relic
3 Shattering Spree
3 Anarchy
3 firespout

cwt1220
10-28-2009, 11:27 PM
I have a blue splash list in the works now. It looks good on paper, but I am going to do some testing with it tomorrow, and I will post the list soon after.

-Chris-

comeback
10-29-2009, 03:53 AM
well thing is this is an imperial painter thread, that is to say the deck has to use it...

anyway how about this one (not mine) posted some times ago, it could be a start to a splashed version of IP :
as side note it ended 6th @ Bazaar of Moxen 3 (legacy)
// FORMAT :
1 Badlands
1 Great Furnace
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Vexing Shusher
3 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Chrome Mox
2 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Magus of the Moon
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Firespout
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Yixlid Jailer
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus


i really like this version, that look pretty much like a T1 deck, including mostly only 1 of each cards but many ways to get them. But maybe it s seems like the deck wanna handle MD too much MU... don't know but it seems it has some consistency anyway.

This is the version of an Italian guy whose name is Filiberto, I've played against him in Rome and I won 0-2 with my Imperial Painter UR (list in previous post).

Principally difference are:

- SSG vs Chrome Mox
- TfK vs Ponder
- Mono Grindstone
- Goyfs vs Magus & Fire/Ice & Relic

I don't like to play Goyf in IP, they are really big as always but they are not enough for an aggro solution, you've just them, you can't tutor them and also the opponent has always a couple of tarmo.

Malchar
10-31-2009, 04:42 AM
Last Thursday I made it to top 4 and then split with Imperial Painter at my local weekly. I used the following list by Kacper Chomicz:

Main deck [61]
creature [19]
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Vexing Shusher

instant
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyroblast
4 Red Elemental Blast

other
2 Blood Moon
4 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sword of Light and Shadow

land [18]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

Sideboard:
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Viashino Heretic
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Shattering Spree
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Trinisphere

My version had the following change: Replace 1x Vexing Shusher with 1x Silent Arbiter.

I was running the Silent Arbiter maindeck, but I never opted to wish for him. The meta had 4 Merfolk decks out of about 30 entrants, which is why I used it maindeck. In retrospect, Vexing Shusher maindeck would probably have been better. I might take Silent Arbiter out entirely and use something else. I want to experiment with Goblin Welder.

The opponent that I split with was using Progenitus, which can be a problem for the combo part of the deck if there are multiples. I don't know if there is anything that I can change about the sideboard to deal with this. I just realized that not even Leyline of the Void will work.

Edit: For the record, I did a little digging and the only card that seems to work on color is Jester's Cap. The only creature in any color is Earwig Squad, which is basically impossible to use correctly.

ryO!
10-31-2009, 08:55 PM
10 Mountain
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
3 Figure
1 Shusher
1 Hearth kami
6 Blast
4 Grindstone
3 lightning bolt
1 jitte
2 SoLS
SB
3 Trinisphere
3 Relic
3 Shattering Spree
3 Powder keg
3 firespout

finally played this list
went 11th in a 30 guy tourney
summary :
G1 zoo
1 - 0 => he draws only one land i kill him with a double SOLS on a SSG ...
1 - 1 => i should have won that one, had painter&Grindstone in starting hand, should have comboed turn 3 BUT i choose to play painter 1st (no REB/pyro in hand) ... and i got lightning bolted ... then i lose to nalcat+tarmo. i still regret my mistake...
1 - 2 => i kept a bad hand, paid it the hard price... i got rushed by nalcat+2*qasali+tarmo+pithing (i could comboed turn 6 BUT missed 1 lil land draw ^^)

G2 Goblin
1 - 0 => Turn 2 combo ...
2 - 0 => Turn 3 combo ...

G3 some kind of depth deck => tarmo+duress+thoughtseize+loam+darkconfident+top+living wish+depth+hexa etc
1 - 0 => Turn 3 combo ...
1 - 1 => bad starting hand, duress+thoughtseize*2 ... i lose
2 - 1 i mulligan to 6 keep a hand with no land, but 2 mox & 2 SSG, draw only 1 land in the 5 next upkep ... odly i managed to win, aggro+equipment ^^.

G4 Goblin
1 - 0 => Turn 2 combo ...
2 - 0 => bad starting hand but i manage to rush him in the end aggro+equipment due to mass pithing ingame ^^

G5 hexamage+loam+depth+living+tarmo+KotR
1 - 0 => turn 4 combo
1 - 1 => GIANT MISTAKE (if i win this i end up 3rdor4th of the tour) i got 6 land one 4/4 figure in play, he has nothing in play, and i got 6 land, and 2 recruiter in hand, i choose to 8/8 the figure ... he draws hexamage, play marit lage ... 20/20 ... i lose ............................ next time don't 8/8 ur figure but play imperial + moon THEN 8/8 the figure ... it was a stupid, i guess i was just too exited to see a 8/8 ... that cost me a nice loot ........ (a stingscounger could have saved me tho....)
1 - 2 => he lock me with pithing (not grindstone but SolS) i manage survive a bit, then he drop a 6/7 tarmo ...

all i can say is the deck work REALLY nice, and the 2 games i ve lost were due to stupid mistakes from me ...

Lightning bolt only saved me once or maybe twice not rly sure about them
SoLS+jitte helped me a LOT but i think i ll replace the jitte by a SoFI
hearth kami > heretic (either way one is a must MD) imo because it sa way much faster/easier to activate. but i guess i ll keep heretic SB vs stax or such.
figures,mage,IR,SSG loved them
chrome mox, not rly sure, they saved me in one game, in all other most of the time i dont rly want or even have anything to remove for it :s.
i ll add stingscourger MD as it really can save your ass, (if i had it i d have won the Marit lage deck ...)
vexing, never tested, since i ve never seen a blue card, but i ll still keep it
6 blast is fine
Jaya never rly had her in play i ll maybe go for only one and add one more equipment.

to sum it up, the deck was rly nice to play, equipment are nice because most of the time people qasali/pithing/stp/pte your combo pieces so you need some strong creatures to deal w/o the combo.

i am pissed about my mistakes .... and missed some bilands & fetch (prize pool) ......

BTW how about one Ghitu Slinger MD or stingscourger is simply more polyvalent?

ryO!
11-03-2009, 04:47 PM
one question about sofi
when painter is in play and if i play sofi
when sofi get in play, is it still blue (painter effect) or only an artifact?
if it's blue then, does it mean i only can equip it on my next turn? OR does it mean that all card played after painter is in play are blue till painter get killed/removed/bounced ?
because i don't really see why the blue protection could interfere with the painter effect
asking it because the last tour i played people told me i could play sofi, so i am a bit confused -.-, so i wanna be sure.


You may play Sword of Fire and Ice, absolutely.

You may also play Painter's Servant.

However, you will not be able to equip the Sword to any of your creatures because each one of those creatures are blue, and the Sword grants a creature "protection from blue"; the Sword itself becomes a blue permanent.

Additionally, if a creature is equipped to the Sword (having protection from blue), and you subsequently play Painter (naming blue), the equipment "drops off" and it becomes unequipped.

my bad, it was a stupid question. thx for your help though ^^.

Michael Keller
11-03-2009, 04:58 PM
one question about sofi
when painter is in play and if i play sofi
when sofi get in play, is it still blue (painter effect) or only an artifact?
if it's blue then, does it mean i only can equip it on my next turn? OR does it mean that all card played after painter is in play are blue till painter get killed/removed/bounced ?
because i don't really see why the blue protection could interfere with the painter effect
or maybe it's a stupid question ... asking it because the last tour i played people told me i could play sofi, so i am a bit confused -.-

You may play Sword of Fire and Ice, absolutely.

You may also play Painter's Servant.

However, you will not be able to equip the Sword to any of your creatures because each one of those creatures are blue, and the Sword grants a creature "protection from blue"; the Sword itself becomes a blue permanent.

Additionally, if a creature is equipped to the Sword (having protection from blue), and you subsequently play Painter (naming blue), the equipment "drops off" and it becomes unequipped.

Malchar
11-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Painter's Servant changes the color of everything continuously as long as it is in play. If you play something after you play a Servant, the new card will still be colored by him. As soon as the Servant leaves play, everything goes back to normal.

With Painter's Servant in play naming blue, you can equip Sword of Fire and Ice to a creature as normal, but the Sword will fall off before players get priority. This is because the Sword gives the creature protection from blue and because the Sword is blue. As soon as the Sword is on a creature, it will fall off.

Because using Painter's Servant naming blue and equipping Sword of Fire and Ice are mutually exclusive, most decks use Umezawa's Jitte or Sword of Light and Shadow instead.

Onslaught
11-06-2009, 08:16 AM
I think my build is a lot more combo oriented than everyone elses, I really never won by beatdown even when I had Jittes. I waver between wanting to go more beatdown oriented (switching Magma Jet to Bolt, putting Jittes back in, etc) and cutting the beatdown element completely (only run x1 Magus and use the rest of his slots on Blood Moon for example).

Here's what I'm running right now, any insight would be appreciated:

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Vexing Shusher

4 Grindstone
4 Gamble
4 Magma Jet
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast

SB: Viashiano Heretic x1, Trinisphere x4, Faerie Macabre x1, Tormod's Crypt x2, Relic of Progenitus x2, Pithing Needle x3, Ingot Chewer x2

ryO!
11-06-2009, 10:03 AM
I think my build is a lot more combo oriented than everyone elses, I really never won by beatdown even when I had Jittes. I waver between wanting to go more beatdown oriented (switching Magma Jet to Bolt, putting Jittes back in, etc) and cutting the beatdown element completely (only run x1 Magus and use the rest of his slots on Blood Moon for example).

Here's what I'm running right now, any insight would be appreciated:

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Vexing Shusher

4 Grindstone
4 Gamble
4 Magma Jet
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast

SB: Viashiano Heretic x1, Trinisphere x4, Faerie Macabre x1, Tormod's Crypt x2, Relic of Progenitus x2, Pithing Needle x3, Ingot Chewer x2
from my experience, and in my opion, equipment are (SoLS&Jitte) much more relevant than Blast, because u do not rely exclusively on the combo pieces, and still can achieve victory without them.
6 blast also provide more flexibility and less dead cards, i might add the 2 last in my SB anyway, but not MD.
Gamble the names says it all, it s too versatile especially w/o welder/SoLS + in your list have no synergies at all.
4 chrome mox is too much, because most of the time u, in the begining of the game, haven't that much useless cards + it makes you even more weaker to discard.
an artifact hate is MANDATORY MD.
Figures of destiny are just like painter/stones imo a must part of the deck.
Magma jet is nice due to scry but Lightning bolt > nalcat/early tarmo/trygorn/etc which makes it more relevant.
hope it helps, then again, it's my point of view and can be criticized.
Ingot Chewer is bad as it's not fetchable, shattering/hearth Kami are much better

Malchar
11-06-2009, 11:59 PM
Sword of Light and Shadow always surprises me in how versatile it is. The life gain helps against burn, and when the Painter is wearing it, it carries a hefty five toughness. Protection from white and black is randomly really good against aggro decks and removal. The graveyard recursion also works really good with Faerie Macabre/Heap Doll and Imperial Recruiter. It also helps bring back dead Painters for the combo.

ryO!
11-20-2009, 06:15 AM
anyone ever tested ali from cairo in some match ups?

cwt1220
11-20-2009, 11:45 AM
I believe he has been discussed in some of the previous pages, and has been found too weak. Mana cost of 4 is not that big of a deal, but only 1 toughness, I believe that he is too easily killed. I have been testing Silent Arbiter in my board again and he has been doing really well. He is good in the Ichorid match and hard to kill with the 5 toughness

-Chris-

ryO!
11-20-2009, 11:57 AM
I believe he has been discussed in some of the previous pages, and has been found too weak. Mana cost of 4 is not that big of a deal, but only 1 toughness, I believe that he is too easily killed. I have been testing Silent Arbiter in my board again and he has been doing really well. He is good in the Ichorid match and hard to kill with the 5 toughness

-Chris-

indeed tested it as well and had really nice results as well.
what s your current list just out of curiosity?

cwt1220
11-20-2009, 04:56 PM
4x tomb
3x city
10x mountains
1x wooded foothills

4x recruiter
4x magus
4x painter
4x ssg
4x figure
2x jaya

4x bolt
4x grindstone
6x blast
3x mox
3x jet

sb:

3x relic
3x blood moon
3x firespout
3x trinisphere
1x silent arbiter
1x shusher
1x hearth kami

Sideboard changes from time to time but I am pretty happy where it is right now. This is the most optimal list that i have tested so far. I know drewlius likes tops, I have tried them and it doesn't really fit into the way that I like to play the deck.

-Chris-

Onslaught
11-21-2009, 09:04 AM
I don't feel secure without at least one Faerie Macabre in the board, maybe I've just run into a disproportionate amount of people who have a Gaea's Blessing x1 in the board.

cwt1220
11-21-2009, 05:34 PM
I don't feel secure without at least one Faerie Macabre in the board, maybe I've just run into a disproportionate amount of people who have a Gaea's Blessing x1 in the board.

I haven't come across anyone running blessing yet, but relic does the same thing anyway, plus you don't die to goyfs with relic.

-Chris-

ryO!
11-23-2009, 03:41 PM
it s pretty much the build i wanted to try at first but i ended up going for 3 equipments 3 bolt rather than 6 bolt/jet
faerie macabre iis ok and i agree that it's not that needed md, on the other hand after several tests i really think it's better than relic as u don't only have to rely on top decking one.
main thing that bother me is heart kami SB, i d really cut a figure for it, it saved me a bunch of times in game 1.
sb it is pretty much like mine, although i don't play moons SB, i might try them soon though.
i ll soon post a feedback as i playing a tour on saturday.

Yui
12-03-2009, 04:00 AM
After a long long time i picked this deck up again. What I noticed during the playtesting that i still missed the shuffle effects, so i thought let put more fetch in it.

my list;
4x Grindstone
4x Painter Servant
3x Chrome mox
3x Sensei's Diving Top
4x Imperial Recruiter
4x Magus of the moon
2x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3x Figure of Destiny
4x Sisiam Spirit Guide
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Pyroblast
3x Magma Jet
2x Bloodstained Mire
3x Scalding Tarn
7x Mountains
3x City of Triators
4x Ancient Tomb

I'm trying to find a place for a extra ReB of Pyro to only problem is what to play less or remove. Any thoughts?

my sideboard isn't finished atm. One thing is for sure i will play trinisphere and relic's but for the creature removal i dunno firesprout/pyro?
When i played this deck a long time ago i had Wildfire Emissary in my SB i really loved him because allot of deck in my Meta(atm, rock, allot of combo and allot of aggro) play plow/path.

Maybe something like;
4x Trinisphere
3x Relic
1x Wildfire Emissary
1x Silent Arbiter
2x Shushers
2x Shattering Spree
3x Mass damage(Firesprout/pyro

does anyone has any thoughts?

grtz,
Yui

ryO!
12-03-2009, 04:26 AM
about your main list


you do want Hearth kami / Heretic MD no matter what your meta looks like. it's pretty much mandatory.
about sensei, well i guess its work well with fetches i gotta try it i guess. but i am not that convince and it's one more thing for 1CC (aka chalice 1, CB). But i believe that all those who tried it already gave it up pretty fast.
6 blast seems the right number for me, maybe side 2 more if your meta is heavy U.
i d play 4 cot -1 fetch

about SB

4x Trinisphere => seems fine
3x Relic => i d play 4 2relic/2tormods
1x Wildfire Emissary => just realized that it was rly good vs bant ^^
1x Silent Arbiter => yup !
2x Shushers => 1 is fine even MD
2x Shattering Spree => fine maybe one more
3x Mass damage(Firesprout/pyro) => Firespout is nice indeed

i also like Stingscounger/powder keg

DrewliusMaximus
12-05-2009, 11:27 PM
you do want Hearth kami / Heretic MD no matter what your meta looks like. it's pretty much mandatory.

How do you figure? Heretic/Kami in the MD are some of the most meta-DEPENDENT slots in the deck.

Also, I still use Tops, but I'm only using 2 (along with 3 Jets).

Yui, I had 3 Tops + 3 Jets + 3 Figures like you for a while, but I switched 1 of the Tops to a 4th Figure and I've been totally happy with that change. With as many shuffle effects as you have, maybe you cut something else, but I'm sold on the full set of Figures. Also like your list, I don't have Lightning Bolt in the MD. But, I love having them (all 4) in the SB.

If my metagame had more aggro without as many Dazes/FOW's, I would consider playing a list like the one cwt1220 posted recently:


4x tomb
3x city
10x mountains
1x wooded foothills

4x recruiter
4x magus
4x painter
4x ssg
4x figure
2x jaya

4x bolt
4x grindstone
6x blast
3x mox
3x jet

sb:

3x relic
3x blood moon
3x firespout
3x trinisphere
1x silent arbiter
1x shusher
1x hearth kami

I still like Tops in the MD at least to help the mid/late game. But more burn would be better against aggro.

Malchar
12-06-2009, 12:04 AM
I use Earthquake in the sideboard rather than Pyroclasm or Firespout. I like the versatility of being able to go off for 1 or 2 and keep my creatures alive or go off for 5 or 6 and wipe the board. This deck can definitely support the increased mana requirement of it.

I could use a little help with my Belcher matchup. I use four Trinisphere sideboard, but it's just not enough. I think that I need to add Chalice as well or something like that. The problem is that Chalice really messes up my own strategy. Is there anything else that's good against Belcher that I could bring in?

Edit: 1x Goblin Welder in the main or side has been pretty useful. If you lose a Grindstone, you can Recruiter for the Welder and bring back the Grindstone. It's kind of like being able to tutor for both combo pieces. It also works kind of nicely against artifact decks.

cwt1220
12-06-2009, 11:13 AM
I still can't bring myself to not play 4 bolts main. There are so many pridemages out there and they are just terrible for this deck to see, plus that last couple points to the face is always nice. My last list I posted is the one I am most happy with so far, I am loving have arbiter in the board again, he has been really solid for me.

@Malchar- Chalice isn't terrible for your deck if you run 1-2 shusher. Chalice may slow you down, but you are also slowing down your opponent enough to buy yourself a little time to find some answers.
-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
12-06-2009, 10:45 PM
Edit: 1x Goblin Welder in the main or side has been pretty useful. If you lose a Grindstone, you can Recruiter for the Welder and bring back the Grindstone. It's kind of like being able to tutor for both combo pieces. It also works kind of nicely against artifact decks.

This has been tried. Gamble works really well with Welder, and if you have a Welder and a Grindstone out, you can blindly Grind yourself to put a Servant in the yard. Welder and Gamble make the deck more combo-focused while Figures and burn give you better aggro and control. I like playing with Figures because they are not as conditional as Welder and Gamble, they work extremely well as decoys for your Servants and IP can pump a Figure faster than almost any other deck. The Figures are their own win condition, and they demand attention most times, forcing your opponent to deal with 2 legit battle plans.

I won a 17-man tournament today with this list:

10 Mountain
1 Mire
1 Foothills
4 Tomb
3 City
3 Mox

4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
4 Figure
2 Jaya
1 Shusher

6 Blast
4 Grindstone

3 Magma Jet
2 Top

SB
3 Relic
3 Trinisphere
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Shattering Spree
2 Blood Moon

I played a Mother of Runes + Stiflenought deck for the last few weeks, and decided to go back to Painter this weekend. I forgot how much more fun this deck is than playing Countertop. I didn't have to play against either of the Zoo decks at the tournament today, but I did have to play Aggro Loam in the finals. I went 5-0-1, against Dredge, Lands, Merfolk, Mono-red Land Destruction (drew into Top 4), Lands again, and Aggro Loam. I don't like the Aggro Loam match at all, but my friend and I decided to play out the final and luckily he didn't have turn 1 Chalice either game. I know a bunch of people say Chalice isn't much of a problem, but I have found it to be a pain, especially against Aggro Loam. The 3 Sprees in the board have been helpful against Chalice and Mox Diamond, and a variety of other things. You can kill off artifact mana against combo so they would be good against Charbelcher in more ways than just targeting the Belcher itself.

ryO!
12-07-2009, 06:00 AM
Damn i guess i am the last one playing 2*SoLS and 1*Jitte over tops.
but i am still convince it gives a strong and efficient help.
about using Fetche, any feedback? i guess i ll give it a try using 1 or 2.
I still don't get why Heart Kami / heretic aren't always MD, i mean ok it s about the meta constitution but @ game 1 it can solve Jitte, Chalice, Trini, SoFI, Vial, Tops, well and all otherr anoying things.
Silent arbiter is lovely !
Wildfire emissary any feedback about it? as i just realised that it s maybe not that bad (avoid stp & RWM etc) , but haven't tested it thoough.

DrewliusMaximus
12-07-2009, 08:31 PM
Damn i guess i am the last one playing 2*SoLS and 1*Jitte over tops.
but i am still convince it gives a strong and efficient help.
about using Fetche, any feedback? i guess i ll give it a try using 1 or 2.

Fetches are good with Tops. Not sure I would use them without Tops.


I still don't get why Heart Kami / heretic aren't always MD, i mean ok it s about the meta constitution but @ game 1 it can solve Jitte, Chalice, Trini, SoFI, Vial, Tops, well and all otherr anoying things.

Heretic is slow and Kami is inefficient. Against Jitte for example, Heretic will usually do nothing, and using Kami means you're often paying 3, 4 or more to kill an artifact. I really have only missed Heretic, and only against Stax. Most of the time I'd rather just have Shattering Sprees and Recruit Servants to turn my blasts into artifact removal.


Silent arbiter is lovely !

He is good. I used to play him but since everyone sides in artifact hate against us, I thought he got a little too fragile.


Wildfire emissary any feedback about it? as i just realised that it s maybe not that bad (avoid stp & RWM etc) , but haven't tested it thoough.

I used to like having 1 Wildfire Emissary and 1 Stuffy Doll in the SB as 2 Recruiter targets that would be pretty much non-removable. That was before Zoo though.

ryO!
12-08-2009, 05:29 AM
Fetches are good with Tops. Not sure I would use them without Tops.

that's what i guessed

Heretic is slow and Kami is inefficient. Against Jitte for example, Heretic will usually do nothing, and using Kami means you're often paying 3, 4 or more to kill an artifact. I really have only missed Heretic, and only against Stax. Most of the time I'd rather just have Shattering Sprees and Recruit Servants to turn my blasts into artifact removal.


hearth is damn fast up to me (from my experience) and to be honest rly annoying artifact cost 0/2 max and ok some 3 but well not that often and ofc stax for 4 but then i d side shatering, so most of the time it will be 0/2 which make kami relevant and efficient. Heretic is damn slow indeed. So with 3/4 land on board u can wipe "any" annoying artifact, including jitte (although for that one u gotta do it the turn kami comes into play, else, bye ^^)


He is good. I used to play him but since everyone sides in artifact hate against us, I thought he got a little too fragile.

he is fragile but that also makes him a nice decoy


I used to like having 1 Wildfire Emissary and 1 Stuffy Doll in the SB as 2 Recruiter targets that would be pretty much non-removable. That was before Zoo though.
yeah kind of what i thought, a bit slow

thx for the inputs anyway

here is my new list anyway.

10 Mountain
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
3 Figure
1 Shusher
1 Hearth kami
6 Blast
4 Grindstone
3 lightning bolt
1 jitte
2 SoLS
SB
3 Trinisphere
2 Relic
1 tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
2 Powder keg
3 firespout
1 Stingscourger/1Silent arbiter no rly sure :s

ryO!
12-17-2009, 11:13 AM
anyone ever tested goblin sharpshooter ?
good to remove :

Noble hierarch
BoB
Clique
Goblins
some merfolks at least before they got pumped
sprite

and you can tutor it.

not sure MD but one decent slot SB.

what do you think? or is it just too slow?

cwt1220
12-17-2009, 02:31 PM
anyone ever tested goblin sharpshooter ?
good to remove :

Noble hierarch
BoB
Clique
Goblins
some merfolks at least before they got pumped
sprite

and you can tutor it.

not sure MD but one decent slot SB.

what do you think? or is it just too slow?

Blasts and Jaya Ballard kill the clique, 'folks, and any fae you may have a problem with, and I already run 7 burn spells maindeck so that really takes care of the rest. I haven't tested Sharpshooter myself (didn't even think of it:tongue: ) but I don't see him getting a spot in the main.

-Chris-

ryO!
12-18-2009, 04:10 AM
Blasts and Jaya Ballard kill the clique, 'folks, and any fae you may have a problem with, and I already run 7 burn spells maindeck so that really takes care of the rest. I haven't tested Sharpshooter myself (didn't even think of it:tongue: ) but I don't see him getting a spot in the main.

-Chris-

indeed. was more like a SB choice, but i guesss u r right. magma/bolt/jaya are just better. or well bolt/jaya in my case :p

il play this list on a tour this week end (same as posted already)


10 Mountain
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
3 Figure
1 Shusher
1 Hearth kami
6 Blast
4 Grindstone
3 lightning bolt
1 jitte
2 SoLS
SB
3 Trinisphere
2 Relic
1 tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
2 Powder keg
3 firespout
1 Stingscourger/1Silent arbiter no rly sure :s

Michael Keller
12-25-2009, 02:34 PM
I have been working on a new list for Imperial Painter as I want to explore it farther. I'll have it up soon.

dahcmai
12-25-2009, 07:42 PM
I'm curious on something. What are this deck's bad match ups? I was thinking of picking up some Recruiters (since I need one for a set anyway) and this deck looks to be the most fun to use them in.

I just want to make sure I'm not going to spend a ton on a deck that will be wrecked in my meta. I have some seriously tough competition in my area.

I also would like to know because I'm quite decent at coming up with obscure ideas to fix older decks' problems.

DrewliusMaximus
12-25-2009, 10:34 PM
I have been working on a new list for Imperial Painter as I want to explore it farther. I'll have it up soon.

Are you trying with a blue splash?


I'm curious on something. What are this deck's bad match ups? I was thinking of picking up some Recruiters (since I need one for a set anyway) and this deck looks to be the most fun to use them in.

I just want to make sure I'm not going to spend a ton on a deck that will be wrecked in my meta. I have some seriously tough competition in my area.

I also would like to know because I'm quite decent at coming up with obscure ideas to fix older decks' problems.

For me, the relevant matchups that have not been favorable are Aggro Loam and Zoo. White Weenies and Burn are also not good, but those matchups aren't so significant in my metagame.

The thing about the bad matchups is that you can potentially tweak your list to address them pretty well without giving up too much of the main strategy. For example I ran 1 Vexing Shusher and 2 Tops in the last list I played at a tournament. If I expected to face Aggro Loam, I would take out the Tops and add 2 MD Viashino Heretics, 1 Heretic + 1 Hearth Kami, or 2 more Shushers, so I could be sure to play through Chalice. If I expected to face a lot of Zoo, I would take out the Shusher and the Tops and add burn or possibly even Blood Moons because a turn-1 Moon (not Magus) is great against them.

Malchar
12-26-2009, 02:19 AM
My bad matchups are other combo decks and aggro loam. There happens to be a powerful contingent of aggro loam players in my meta, and I'm not especially good at facing that deck with anything that I could bring. As for the combo, you have a good chance against blue-based combo because of the maindeck blasts. However, decks like dredge or especially belcher can be a real pain. The good thing is that you can usually afford a lot of slots in your deck to combat the meta. The mvps for me have been earthquake/pyroclasm/firespout and trinisphere.

DrewliusMaximus
12-26-2009, 11:14 AM
Other combo decks have not been unfavorable from my experience, but the die roll matters a lot. I'd say it's about 50/50 against ANT and slighlty favorable against Belcher. In both cases, it becomes much worse if they go first. But Moon effects, Trinisphere and even burn helps against ANT and you even have a potential turn 0 play against them with a Spirit Guide and a Blast. Against Belcher, Trinisphere is game over, and Shattering Spree and Silent Arbiter are also good. Many times, Belcher will even give you enough time for a Servant + Blast.

Dredge has been a highly favorable match for me. Moons, Trinisphere, Relics, and burn (for their guys and your own - to remove Bridges) are good here.

cwt1220
12-27-2009, 12:36 PM
Dredge has been a highly favorable match for me. Moons, Trinisphere, Relics, and burn (for their guys and your own - to remove Bridges) are good here.

I haven't lost a game yet to dredge, we just have too much stuff for them to deal with and are fast enough to almost put them on a "clock." I haven't played this deck much lately, and was wondering what your experiences are against 43 land, and the bant decks, i.e: counter-top, natural order, and survival? I was thinking about taking this to a tournament in a couple weeks and wondered about the match-ups.

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
12-29-2009, 02:22 PM
I haven't lost a game yet to dredge, we just have too much stuff for them to deal with and are fast enough to almost put them on a "clock." I haven't played this deck much lately, and was wondering what your experiences are against 43 land, and the bant decks, i.e: counter-top, natural order, and survival? I was thinking about taking this to a tournament in a couple weeks and wondered about the match-ups.

-Chris-

Any Lands decks should pretty much be an auto-win for you as long as you have Blood Moons in the SB (or MD). If Lands has the right tech (Seismic Assault for example), they can play through Moon effects, but otherwise Magi + Moon blanks their entire deck. Plus, you can potentially just combo out before they can do anything.

I haven't played against Bant enough to say for sure, but I feel pretty comfortable against it. Moons will screw them up as long as you get rid of Hierarch, and Blasts will not only counter stuff, but also kill War Monks. I would probably consider boarding out a few Grindstones against Bant since everything else in the deck is relevant against them. If they are using CounterTop, make sure to have a Vexing Shusher. The only times I have played against Natural Order were in Survival Elves and BG Rockish decks. But I would think that if you are playing against Bant w/ NO, you would want to have all your burn to keep the creatures off the board, and hope to have a Servant + Blast in case they try and cast it. And if they have Survival, I would just bring in Relics or your other graveyard hate.

With Imperial Painter, I am really only worried about Aggro Loam and Zoo, and inconsistency relative to the decks that play Brainstorms, Ponders, Tops, etc. Despite that though, I am considering playing an IP list without Tops that is a little bit more like yours Chris, so I can fit in the cards I want. I still won't have as much burn in the MD as you, but I will have a full 4 Magma Jets to help with consistency.

Judge_Julez
12-29-2009, 02:49 PM
With Imperial Painter, I am really only worried about Aggro Loam and Zoo...

Last time out I played this deck, I lost to 2 WHITE STAX decks that I met two in the first 3 rounds of a tournament

I would say i was on form, and didnt make any mistakes either in that tournament; but having to play against White and not Blue certainly caused me problems...

(just thought I'd mention that the deck may have a problem against another archtype)

cwt1220
12-30-2009, 12:08 AM
Last time out I played this deck, I lost to 2 WHITE STAX decks that I met two in the first 3 rounds of a tournament

I would say i was on form, and didnt make any mistakes either in that tournament; but having to play against White and not Blue certainly caused me problems...

(just thought I'd mention that the deck may have a problem against another archtype)

Any decks that run chalice and 3sphere maindeck are really bad for us. I have never come across white stax personally, but I have played against dragon stompy, and the mono-green stompy, and I can imagine it was just as bad. Both of those deck were pretty horrid for me, but those kind of things happen occasionally. :tongue:

I have also been messing around with Zo-Zu the Punisher as a one of in the place of shusher/heretic. Has been pretty solid so far and I will update after some more testing.

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
12-30-2009, 10:06 AM
I have had mostly favorable results against Stax and Dragon Stompy. Chalice is bad, but Trinisphere should be in your own SB. I have at least 2 Shattering Spree, 1 Heretic and a Shusher to help with Chalice, and we have enough mana to cast through Trinisphere. Magus and Moons are good against Stax, and Jaya is good against both Stax and DS.

You can lose any matchup though. Over the course of 3 tournaments, I lost like 4 or 5 matches to Merfolk, which seems ridiculous when your deck kills blue shit for a living. But I would not be afraid to play Merfolk again anytime.

cwt1220
01-03-2010, 02:00 PM
This is my latest list that I am going to be playing this coming weekend in Vestal:

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
10 [TSP] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
3 [EVE] Figure of Destiny
2 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 [CHK] Zo-Zu the Punisher

// Spells
3 [B] Red Elemental Blast
3 [IA] Pyroblast
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [B] Lightning Bolt
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [EX] Price of Progress

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [DK] Blood Moon
SB: 2 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 1 [FD] Silent Arbiter
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree

I am really liking Zo-Zu in the main, because he can cause a lot of trouble for most every deck. Price of Progress is a meta choice, because it is really good against bant, 43 land, and aggro loam (and works through moon effects :tongue:) which I expect to be pretty prevalent.
Questions and comments are much appreciated.

-Chris-

ryO!
01-04-2010, 11:12 AM
after some testing i ve come to some new conclusions

Jitte is definitely better than SoLS as we don't have any creatures with evasion wich makes SoLS pretty much useless everytime since your creatures won't have enought power. So i ll switch to 2 Jittes and 1 SoLS

1 welder MD is a much better recurtion than SoLS as even if on piece of the combo got destroyed u still can achieve it as long as it lives on turn (even w/o running Tops). So +1 MD and maybe +1 SB.

hearth kami may not be the best artifact hate we could dream of but it's the fastest so i ll stick to it over Heretic. Also playing one MD is almost always usefull.

Blood Moon SB seems to be a real bomb as a turn one moon effect turns down many deck.

rolling earthquake/earthquake over firespout seems to be also a better option

so here is my new list

10 Mountain
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
2 Figure
1 Welder
1 Shusher
1 Hearth kami
6 Blast
4 Grindstone
3 lightning bolt
2 jitte
1 SoLS
SB
3 Trinisphere
2 Relic
1 tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
2 Blood Moon
1 rolling earthquake
1 earthquake
1 Stingscourger
1 welder/Silent Arbiter

any comment will be appreciated.

slayjay
01-04-2010, 04:14 PM
In hanau, germany, there was a giant legacy tournament on saturday, the 3. january.
A good time to reanimate the "famous" team N! (aka nefarious), but without playing the nefarious lich - nourishing shoal - autochthon wurm combo (after an solid appearance of totally 2-12 two years ago...).

We planned to play this:

florian "zilla" liederbach: show and tell
philipp "flippi" böhm: gw hate aggro
sebastian "simon MD" ehmke: redblack discard burn, something strange....
jens "slayjay" jaeger: imperial painter

after searching all the cards of those 4 decks (i ´m the only one with a card pool, d´uh) flippi and flo dropped before we could arrive, due to alcohol and too less sleep...flo gets angry because the whole tournament was won by a show and tell / dreamhalls deck...

anyway, enought introduction, here is the decklist I played:

"gore grind fever"

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
10 [IN] Mountain (2)

// Creatures
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [FS] Magus of the Moon
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
1 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 [EVT] Figure of Destiny

// Spells
4 [U] Lightning Bolt
4 [IA] Pyroblast
4 [U] Red Elemental Blast
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [DK] Blood Moon
4 [MR] Chrome Mox

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [OV] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [FD] Silent Arbiter
SB: 1 [UL] Viashino Heretic
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree

this was my first tournament with painter, because I got the recruiter just the week before...I tested it online a time but hadn´t really experience with the matchups....but a tournament is a good place to learn:tongue:

270 participants meant 9 rounds of swiss followed by top 8. a lot to do...
unluckily I didn´t made any notes, so the games will only be described short...

round 1: austrian player with merfolk
merfolk! I love this matchup...the games were short and brutal, 8 blasts main and after boarding 3 additional pyroclasms are too much for him...notable when he called a judge because he wanted to stifle my comesintoplay ability of painters servant...the judge even gave him a warning for this because of gameplayerror, in my opinion a very hard decission...

1-0, 2:0

round 2: maxime gilles from france (ended up 12th) with bant
in this matchup the bloodmoon saved me game two and three againts his threecoloured mana base. game one he started with first turn forest into noble hierarch against my first turn moon...damn

2-0, 4:1

round 3: alexander schwinn with enchantress (finished 28th)
any painter player won this matchu before? it is horrible in my opinion...preboard he have solitary confinement, sterling grove, aura of silence and oblivion ring to disrupt you, after game one this guy brought in chalice of the void for one and seal of cleansing / primordium....in game two he played very risky and I can remove his only sigil of the empty throne due to my faerie macabre, and his words of war was in the last five cards of his library, but he won the game with a card left into the library (damn, to less enchantress presence...)

any hints how I can improve this matchup? I think the only way you can win is very fast combo ( turn one or two before he have confiment) or to destroy him quick his mana (NOT with moon, this one he is playing himself), especially enchanted lands. chalice destroys both of these plans...

2-1, 4:3

round 4: german guy with merfolk
thanks again for this matchup, I even won the game when I have to mulligan down to five...and he was suprised by maindeck red blasts...

sidenote: there where 4 players of those 270 playing painter...the enchantress player I lost to get even two of them...another, martin seichert from germany, was seated in 5 round next to me....we laughed and joked all the time what will happen when we get pairted to each other. any hints for the mirror? heretic and shattering sprees are good, and abusing opponents painter too, right? martin finished 68th...

3-1; 6:3

round 5: german guy with tempothresh
3 funny normal games...no WAIT! game three I killed him with the silent arbiter which went in for 17 damage...strong...blood moon froze him down, he had pyroclasm, bolts and fire(ice) he could play with all the mountains, but the arbiter was just to big in his toughness...

4-1, 8:4

round 6: florian marx with ANT (finished 33th)
this guy played his first legacy tournament ever, so he told me he had to choose a deck to get lucky with...
I kept a hand with a potential turn 2 kill with painter and grindstone, he mulliganed to six and topdecked first turn ad nauseam for ritual ritual ritual AN and the win...
game 2 and 3 I had both first turn trinisphere, second turn moon....funny when he wanted to storm out against the trinisphere with IGG and two LED...but no mana to pay for the LEDs...

5-1, 10:5

now there was a little hope to go for top8...

round 7: gabriel meyer from switzerland with nayazoo (finished first after 9 rounds and second total)
first game was just aweful....he won the dice role, mulliganed to three and started with first turn supsend rift bolt, second turn fetch and goyf...third turn lighting bolt....the goyf went in for about 15 damage...
I only had moon and some small critters and some grindstones, nothing great, but finally topdecked painter before I could get goyfed...
game 2 and three I get just burned out quickly, one game was even close when he had 2 cards in hand, me grindstone and a lot of mana in play and painter and blast in hand....I played the painter, blasted the bolt targeting painter, but there was nothing to do against his fireblast...

5-2, 11:7

round 8: gunnar geißler with ANT (finished 44th)
I won the die and could kill him with painter and grind on turn two....but he had black leyline...so I get IGGed first turn and it wasn´t all great...soon after this I get MILLED by helm of obedience....damn this shouldn´t happen to painter...
second game I raced 6 empty the warrens tokens with a pumped figure, third game I get milled again....once again my opponent was supprised by maindeck blasts...

5-3, 12:9

so it was all over for me, no chance to make top 8 or top 16 (there were some duals for up to place 16), and I decide to drop because I get tired.

I finished place 63 of 270 with the best opp score of all the 15 points people due to my good performing opponents.

All in all this deck is a lot of fun, but I alwasy think there are too much cards I want to have in this deck (SOLS, jitte, more figure, magma jet) and too less space...but I will stay playing this funny thing (hm, that is what most of the people say who buyed 4 imperial recruiter...:tongue: )

DrewliusMaximus
01-04-2010, 11:59 PM
I am really liking Zo-Zu in the main, because he can cause a lot of trouble for most every deck. Price of Progress is a meta choice, because it is really good against bant, 43 land, and aggro loam (and works through moon effects ) which I expect to be pretty prevalent.

I'm interested in how it goes with those cards. Zo-zu seems slow to me, but Price of Progress could be interesting.


rolling earthquake/earthquake over firespout seems to be also a better option

I'm not a fan of killing off my own creatures. But I guess Earthquake's flexibility could be nice.


I finished place 63 of 270 with the best opp score of all the 15 points people due to my good performing opponents.

All in all this deck is a lot of fun, but I alwasy think there are too much cards I want to have in this deck (SOLS, jitte, more figure, magma jet) and too less space...but I will stay playing this funny thing (hm, that is what most of the people say who buyed 4 imperial recruiter... )

Not bad Jens. I like playing the full 4 Figures, but it's true, there are a bunch of cards you can work into this deck.

ryO!
01-05-2010, 05:19 AM
the only way against enchanteress seems to be a white splash with 3/4 tempest of light 4 fetches 1 badlands 1 plain i guess but ...

i might play my list this saturday in a 3x men tour so i ll let you know.

Benie Bederios
01-05-2010, 04:30 PM
Hey guys,

I have a tournament this sunday and I don't know which deck to play, this or Landstill.

For that reason I would like to know what the matchups of this deck are against The Rock, ANT, Merfolk and Countertop... I will probably play the same build as DrewliusMaximus, but obviously with a sideboard tailored to my metagame.

Love to here from you.

- Benie

DrewliusMaximus
01-05-2010, 05:00 PM
the only way against enchanteress seems to be a white splash with 3/4 tempest of light 4 fetches 1 badlands 1 plain i guess but ...

i might play my list this saturday in a 3x men tour so i ll let you know.

I guess it's just me but I have not had problems with Enchantress. Servants + Blasts + Jaya have usually allowed me to counter/remove their important pieces. If I couldn't win with a quick beatdown or combo, and they did not run City of Solitude, I just held my Blasts to counter the win conditions, and they would deck themselves. Although I haven't played against Enchantress for months, and the ones I played against never boarded Chalices.

One thing I've thought about is having 1-2 Engineered Explosives in the SB. EE would help against Enchantress, especially if it had Chalices. Plus, EE would be good against Zoo and creature tokens.


Hey guys,

I have a tournament this sunday and I don't know which deck to play, this or Landstill.

For that reason I would like to know what the matchups of this deck are against The Rock, ANT, Merfolk and Countertop... I will probably play the same build as DrewliusMaximus, but obviously with a sideboard tailored to my metagame.

Love to here from you.

- Benie

I haven't played against The Rock too much, but when I did, I won more than I lost. Extra Blood Moons help here as long as they don't run mana-creatures, and Relics are amazing.

ANT is probably 50/50, but I'll bet it's like 70/30 or 30/70 depending on the die roll. Obviously Trinisphere is your best SB card against ANT. Extra Moons are good too, but I've also found Shattering Spree to help kill early artifact mana they might play if they can't go off turn 1.

Merfolk should be a positive matchup, but even with a shitload of MD hate I don't take those guys lightly.

And Countertop isn't a bad matchup either, although some builds are much better than others. Magus used to be awesome here, but now Supreme Blue has Firespouts. If they're playing War Monk though, then Jaya and Blasts get better.

ryO!
01-06-2010, 04:07 AM
I guess it's just me but I have not had problems with Enchantress. Servants + Blasts + Jaya have usually allowed me to counter/remove their important pieces. If I couldn't win with a quick beatdown or combo, and they did not run City of Solitude, I just held my Blasts to counter the win conditions, and they would deck themselves. Although I haven't played against Enchantress for months, and the ones I played against never boarded Chalices.

One thing I've thought about is having 1-2 Engineered Explosives in the SB. EE would help against Enchantress, especially if it had Chalices. Plus, EE would be good against Zoo and creature tokens.



I haven't played against The Rock too much, but when I did, I won more than I lost. Extra Blood Moons help here as long as they don't run mana-creatures, and Relics are amazing.

ANT is probably 50/50, but I'll bet it's like 70/30 or 30/70 depending on the die roll. Obviously Trinisphere is your best SB card against ANT. Extra Moons are good too, but I've also found Shattering Spree to help kill early artifact mana they might play if they can't go off turn 1.

Merfolk should be a positive matchup, but even with a shitload of MD hate I don't take those guys lightly.

And Countertop isn't a bad matchup either, although some builds are much better than others. Magus used to be awesome here, but now Supreme Blue has Firespouts. If they're playing War Monk though, then Jaya and Blasts get better.

ee seems nice vs zoo indeed, i use to play Powder keg which can also be a nice table sweeper. But it's so damn slow . . . ee is better but limited to 0 & 1 cards.

why don't you try one welder in your deck? i ve found it to be extremly nice, and especially if you play tops. As long as you got one artifact in the graveyard you draw 2 per turn.

Michael Keller
01-06-2010, 08:51 AM
round 3: alexander schwinn with enchantress (finished 28th)
any painter player won this matchu before? it is horrible in my opinion...preboard he have solitary confinement, sterling grove, aura of silence and oblivion ring to disrupt you, after game one this guy brought in chalice of the void for one and seal of cleansing / primordium....in game two he played very risky and I can remove his only sigil of the empty throne due to my faerie macabre, and his words of war was in the last five cards of his library, but he won the game with a card left into the library (damn, to less enchantress presence...)

any hints how I can improve this matchup? I think the only way you can win is very fast combo ( turn one or two before he have confiment) or to destroy him quick his mana (NOT with moon, this one he is playing himself), especially enchanted lands. chalice destroys both of these plans...

When I was tinkering with my latest build (in which I play white), I ended up trying Tempest of Light (http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Mirrodin/Tempest-of-Light.jpg) in the sideboard for just the occasion. It always seems at one tournament or another, you run into Enchantress and it is God-awful bad for Imperial Painter (depending on the start; Moon effects can be crucial). This helps fit the curve and depending on whether you want to splash white, it can really make a world of difference; not to mention the fact it is an instant, which completely nullifies Replenish when you can counter it with a Painter out without having to tap valuable resources during your own turn.

There's also Aura Barbs (http://magiccards.info/scans/en/bok/94.jpg), but that doesn't help with Solitary Confinement in play. I prefer Anarchy still, because it is so damn good against cards like Humility, Elpeth, etc. If it comes right down to it, naming "white" with a Painter out and subsequently casting Anarchy - really can cause anarchy.

sroncor1
01-09-2010, 01:50 PM
As Hollywood mentioned earlier, with the new R/U fetch land the splash of blue in the deck is really easy. I haven't gotten to do extensive testing, but so far I have really liked the results. *s I'm on a bus right now, my decklist will have to wait but I recently took second in a local 16 man event with the deck. I'll just make a quick note of the changes. I added 4 trinket mages along with 1 EE and 1 SDT. I also put in a lone Sower of Temptaion. Along with the basic fetches I ran 2 volcanic islands and 1 island. To make room I cut a lightning bolt, figure, 1 blast effect, a SSG for another land, a grindtone, vexing shusher, and the tutorable artifact removal. So far the additions have allowed the tempo thresh and countertop matchups to be more favorable. It also seems as if merfolk is easier, just due to the fact that its far easier to combat standstill CA. I haven't done enough testing against zoo, but I actually think it is still sort of a push. It does however give us more tools to fight belcher, which I still think is a shitty deck, but it and lands are seeing more play. Other than that I'll get a more complete report up with sideboarding soon.

wolfstorm
01-10-2010, 04:17 PM
Brb punting painter mirror...

Otter
01-10-2010, 04:19 PM
Of all the matchups you don't expect to see, Painter mirror is pretty high up there.

wolfstorm
01-10-2010, 04:28 PM
Me and drewlius just played on the featured 5k and I totally punted game 1 anyways hope he makes it and I win out for top 8

gamegeek2
01-10-2010, 08:01 PM
Adding blue seems like it would significantly help the Dredge matchup - gives you consistent access to hate, and you can have both Relic and Crypt.

Blue also gives you Submerge if you want it. You can submerge, then Moon and cut them off their mana.

Also, Martyr of Ashes could be a tutorable sweeper.

MattH
01-10-2010, 09:16 PM
Me and drewlius just played on the featured 5k and I totally punted game 1 anyways hope he makes it and I win out for top 8

Sucks you got 9th on tiebreakers. ;_;

Esper3k
01-10-2010, 11:32 PM
Congrats to DrewliusMaximus for getting T4!

cwt1220
01-10-2010, 11:54 PM
Congrats to DrewliusMaximus for getting T4!

+1!

-Chris-

Mr.C
01-11-2010, 12:09 AM
$250 Recruiters, anyone?

cwt1220
01-11-2010, 12:14 AM
What kind of new tech was brought to this tournament? I believe I read something about E. Explosives...


$250 Recruiters, anyone?
:tongue:

wolfstorm
01-11-2010, 02:40 AM
Sucks you got 9th on tiebreakers. ;_;

I missed it by .04%... QQ.. :(

ryO!
01-11-2010, 10:13 AM
Congrats to DrewliusMaximus for getting T4!

congratulation !
your list and match up were ?
tell us about it

DrewliusMaximus
01-12-2010, 12:41 AM
Congrats to DrewliusMaximus for getting T4!

Thanks! I was hoping to get paired with Merfolk or Lands in the semi's, but it was a great time.

I kept a few notes on my score sheet, but that score sheet got lost before the top 8. Here's a quick report from what I remember:

Match 1 - Lands
Game 1 & 2: Magus and Moon beat lands. Pretty simple.

1-0

Match 2 - Burn
Game 1: I won the roll and played a first turn Magus not knowing what he was playing. I'm not excited when he plays first turn Rift Bolt. I play my second Magus with a Painter and 2 Blasts in hand. He lets his Rift Bolt go to me instead of a Magus, which turns out to be important because I end up playing Servant and trading both Blasts for burn spells, drawing a total of 3 burn spells to Painter. I play a Figure and some other stuff while beating for the win.
Game 2: I decide not to board in Trinisphere and try to trade Blasts for burn. It turns out to be a good idea because I get a 1st turn Top and Grindstone with Painter and a Blast in hand. I am able to draw one burn spell to a Figure and then combo off with double blast protection on turn 4 or 5 I think.

2-0

Match 3 - Thresh
Game 1: I baited some burn out with Figure and used an early Top to assemble to combo with double blast protection.
Game 2: I played a turn 1 Magus and he scooped after drawing his next card! I asked why, and he said he sideboarded wrong. I think he brought in Grip or something for Fire/Ice.

3-0

Match 4 - Enchantress
Game 1: This is against David from Houston, and we've played this matchup before. I have done ok in the past as long as I could get Servant early because either the combo or a single Blast in the first 3 turns can make the difference. If I don't get Painter early though, there's no hope. In the first game, I drew a hand with Painter, Blast and Grindstone, and I combo on turn 3.
Game 2: I draw a Painter, Grindstone and Tomb + City, and I combo on turn 2. This is definitely my luckiest match of the day.

4-0

Match 5 - Imperial Painter (Mirror?...WTF)
Game 1: Whatup Eric? This is pretty crazy, but Eric and I knew it might happen when we were both 4-0. Luckily for me, I have played the mirror (kind of) against UR, UBR and Survival Painter. In the first game he comes out fast with the combo pieces, but I am able to Bolt his first Painter while trading 1 for 1 Blasts. I have played a Figure and start to beat down. He is able to play a second Painter later but I remove that as well.
Game 2: This is where the mirror experience helped. I boarded out 2 Painters and kept my Grindstones in. In the end, I am able to combo off.

5-0

Match 6 - NoGoyf
Game 1: I am able to get Grindstone out and burn some of his early guys, but he wastes my Tomb and I have 2 lands with a Servant and Blast in hand. I draw a Top and look for the third land but it's not even in the next 3. I draw a Blast and spin again finding a Mountain for the following turn. I'm getting beaten fast enough that I need to try and play Servant with only 1 red left for one Blast. He is able to STP Servant with Daze backup.
Game 2: I trade burn for some of his dudes and play a Magus which actually locks him out of blue and he has only 1 white. But he plays a Vial and I start beating. I play a EE for 1, but I make the mistake of thinking that I need to fear his 1cc creatures, and I wait to pop EE. He ramps EE to 2 and puts Knight of White Orchid into play and gets his second white. I lose.

5-1

Match 7 - Zoo
Tom offers a draw but I was wanting to play it out because there was like a 25% chance that I don't make top 8 with a draw.
Game 1: I can't remember exactly, but I think we trade some burn for creatures and I play Grindstone and Top and combo off at some point with Blast protection.
Game 2: I get an early Moon but he draws both green and white basics and I lose.
After game 2 he offers the draw again and I accept. Now that I know he's playing Zoo, I'll take the 75% chance with a draw.

Top 8 - Merfolk
Game 1: I start with a Top, a Bolt and a Blast and a bunch of land, but I keep and trade Bolts and Blasts for dudes and find Jaya to control the board.
Game 2: I think I start with a Figure but eventally resolve a Painter and combo off.

Top 4 - Zoo
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/18642.html


What kind of new tech was brought to this tournament? I believe I read something about E. Explosives..

EE worked out in the second game against Zoo in the top 4. It was also good against UW NoGoyf and it should make the Dredge match even better and be decent against combo, especially if they're playing Empty the Warrens. I'm replacing 2 Shattering Spree with them so that 2 of the cards I'm using to handle Chalice will also help the Zoo matchup.

I might make one more change to the deck: -1 Magus, +1 Moon in the MD. With Magus not quite the bomb that it used to be, and no other slots worth giving up, I want to find a place for a 4th Blood Moon. Imperial Painter already has really good matchups against Lands, Merfolk and Dredge. Shifting from Magus-heavy to Moon-heavy would help against Zoo and Temp Thresh.

Congrats to Tom Ross and props to Eric for the top 10 result with Painter.

ryO!
01-12-2010, 04:51 AM
well that was a rly nice tour for IP 2 in top 10 that s like outstanding, and mirror match what are the odds? ^^

anyway
as u play top, and as it seems to be really relevant, don't you think adding one or 2 more fetch could help?

Michael Keller
01-12-2010, 10:44 AM
That is actually pretty awesome. Congrats!

wolfstorm
01-12-2010, 01:31 PM
Here's a quick write up of what I played against and the bits I remembered from this weekend at the Dallas/Fort Worth 5k.

1-0 (2-0)

Match 1 Goblins
Game 1 - He leads with turn 1 lackey, I answer with turn 1 painter, turn 2 grindstone mill.
Game 2 - I have a turn 1 painter and play the control route w/ weenie beats until I find a grindstone and win a couple turns later.

2-0 (2-1)

Match 2 Merfolk
Game 1 - I lead with turn 1 painter and blast his force of will w/ simian followed by a turn 2 grind kill.
Game 2 - I only remember that I loose b/c I try to play around daze with my grindstone and end up having to play through multiple standstill's because of it.
Game 3 - Painter & Jaya + blasts = gg

3-0 (2-0)

Match 3 ???? Doran or Rock?
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/18634.html

4-0 (2-0)

Match 4 Geddon Stax
Game 1 - I win the die roll and lead with city of traitors mox Grindstone Painter and he concedes after grabbing his top card.
Game 2 - Magus & Painter+Jaya FTW was able to keep him off white and any of his important lock pieces while slowly winning with weenie beats.

4-1 (0-2)

Match 5 Imperial Painter Mirror.. lulz
Game 1 - I have a quick combo which is met with bolt and blast on my painter and then misplay naming blue on my second painter which meets his demise by a ReB.. whoops.
Game 2 - I make boarding mistakes and get crushed.

5-1 (2-0)

Match 6 Goblins
Game 1 - Turn 1 Lackey is met with turn 1 Painter Blasts + Jaya keep his board clear and later on I find my grindstone and win
Game 2 - Same thing as game 1.

5-1-1 (ID)

Match 7 Tempo Thresh
Normally I would of played this out because it wasn't a guaranteed placing in the top 8.. though it was DAMN close (missed it by .04% on tiebreakers w/ the 43 lands player) but since it was a team mate we took the ID and hoped to both make it in, also if he would of received the loss apparently he wouldn't of made it.


Anyways this deck is amazing I wish I had time to play test it before the tournament (I decided to change decks the night before driving back to our apartment in Dallas hence the terrible sideboard.) The match's I won were basically no contest, and it was a blast to play. Also Grats to Drew on the top 8! Sorry I wasn't there with you like we were hoping damn those tiebreakers.

DrewliusMaximus
01-12-2010, 06:47 PM
Sorry I wasn't there with you like we were hoping damn those tiebreakers.

Next time dude.


well that was a rly nice tour for IP 2 in top 10 that s like outstanding, and mirror match what are the odds?

Seriously. Granted there were a ton of Merfolks, but I didn't even get to play one in regular rounds.


anyway
as u play top, and as it seems to be really relevant, don't you think adding one or 2 more fetch could help?

I went down to 1 Fetch from usually playing 2, and I would probably put the second one back. But this is the one deck where I am not a fan of too many Fetches with Top. It has turned out too many times in the past that I find what I need in the top 3 cards, and really just want 1 red mana open to pop Top for Blast without having to reshuffle. Still, I wouldn't argue too much against more Fetches.

Ophidian
01-12-2010, 07:29 PM
Man, Drew-- mad props for rockin it (even tho you dreamcrushed mah boy Bill in the quarters)

I just need to unlazy myself and post that pile I was thinking about playing

Are you in for GP Columbus?

sroncor1
01-12-2010, 07:32 PM
Congrats to both of you for great days. I would especially like to hear what you have to say about the deck, Wolfstorm since you just started to play it. What cards you thought were weak main deck and what can be done to help some of the deck’s weaker matches. As I mentioned before I have been working a small splash in blue for the deck.

Creatures
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter’s Servent
4 Trinket Mage
3 SSG
3 Figure of Destiny
1 Jaya Ballard
1 Sower of Temptation

Spells
6 Blast effects
3 Grindstone
3 Lightning Bolts
3 Chrome Mox
1 EE
1 SDT

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Islands
1 island
4 mountains

Sideboard
2 EE
1 Pithing Needle
2 Blast effects
1 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
1 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Blood Moon

I can’t say that this is the best configuration for the deck, but it has been testing very well for me right now. Clearly the weakest card in the deck is the Sower of Temptation, but it actually allowed me to beat reanimator and in testing it has been a solid tutor target against non-red Countertop decks. I,m still testing the zoo matchup as right now there seems to be so many variants and I’m not sure what is considered the optimal build or most common. The addition of EE in the main and sideboard has really helped the deck I feel. I know for me tempo thresh was never great but now it feels as if I can win the war of attrition. And while Countertop was never a huge problem, the new configuration makes getting around it even easier. I also feel like rock style decks are slightly a better match up as now we can finally 2 for 1 them with the EE, which before we were always at card disadvantage with them before.
I will say I miss not really playing the aggro role as much anymore. It much just be my playstyle with the deck has changed, but with the splash the deck definitely feels more controllish, with a solid combo.
Currently I might try and test out Venser, Shaper Savant to further exploit this splash in the place of the Sower. I do love having the SDT back in the deck and it shines against everything except zoo. I’ll continue to test the deck in my spare time but any suggestions are comments are appreciated.

wolfstorm
01-13-2010, 02:48 PM
To be honest I didn't really think any of the cards main deck were that weak.. I have yet to play the zoo matchup or aggro-loam but from just looking at zoo lists the deck needs something it can bring in to help there. I know it basically kills everything on our side but bringing in firespout and slow rolling into it could be awesome. According to Drew engineered explosives helps the match to but I believe we need more then just EE against them.

Also my sideboard was pretty horrible at the 5K but one slot I probably wouldn't change would be the 4 mindbreak trap's considering that's basically the only hope we have for belcher on the play (my friend in Vegas got knocked out by 4 turn 1 kill's round 1 and 2 to belcher decks with Imperial Painter). Obviously though the Blood moon's and Shattering spree's are also hot I probably would run 3 of each in the board next time.

BTW the game's I played at the 5K all seemed pretty easy besides the mirror, the only reason I lost a game against merfolk was because I waited a turn to drop my grindstone because I was scared of daze and ended up having to play it through a standstill instead, which refilled his hand with a bunch of tasty force of wills.

DrewliusMaximus
01-13-2010, 10:42 PM
Are you in for GP Columbus?

Yes sir. 1000+ person Legacy events are hard to come by.


To be honest I didn't really think any of the cards main deck were that weak.. I have yet to play the zoo matchup or aggro-loam but from just looking at zoo lists the deck needs something it can bring in to help there. I know it basically kills everything on our side but bringing in firespout and slow rolling into it could be awesome. According to Drew engineered explosives helps the match to but I believe we need more then just EE against them.

Eric, here's my take on the matchup with Zoo at this point - play a 1st/2nd turn Blood Moon if at all possible, and force a long game with Relic, burn, and EE while baiting out their burn until you can play an 8/8 Figure or combo off. I have tried Firespout but I found that after clearing the board they would regain position faster than me.

The Zoo and Tempo Thresh matches are why I am going to replace 1 MD Magus with a Moon, so I can have a full 4 Moons after boarding. However it is managed, there is no doubt in my mind that 4 Moons is our best possible approach against Zoo.

As far as other sideboarding goes, I like the these cards:

Trinisphere - addresses your combo matchups and Dredge
Shattering Spree - addresses the Chalice issue, addresses the Jitte issue and hates on Stax
EE - addresses the Chalice issue, kills artifact mana and Warrens tokens against combo, and hates on Zoo
Relic - most comprehensive graveyard hate with cantrip bonus

Here's how I see Imperial Painter's major matchups:

Very Favorable - Merfolk, Lands, Dredge
Favorable - Countertop, Stax, Goblins, Bant
Even - ANT, Belcher, Tempo Thresh
Unfavorable - Zoo, Aggro Loam, Burn
Very Unfavorable - Goyf Sligh

I want my sideboard to help as much as possible with Tempo Thresh, Zoo, and Aggro Loam.

cwt1220
01-13-2010, 10:58 PM
Yes sir. 1000+ person Legacy events are hard to come by.

We will definitely have to meet there at some point, because I will be making the trip. I wish it wasn't 6 months away...:cry:

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
01-15-2010, 04:11 PM
We will definitely have to meet there at some point, because I will be making the trip.

Right on.

Check this out...if this card was Multikicker for one red, I would have peed in my pants a little bit: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100062&d=1263359200

cwt1220
01-17-2010, 12:14 PM
Check this out...if this card was Multikicker for one red, I would have peed in my pants a little bit: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100062&d=1263359200

Lol. I think that card would be a pretty fun one to play, but I still really like Zo-Zu, the Punisher. :tongue:

-Chris-

thorin_the_king
01-17-2010, 04:55 PM
hey guys, just wondering what do you think about this new card:

Ricochet Trap :3: :r:
Instant — Trap (Unco)
If an opponent casted a blue spell this turn, you may pay :r: rather than pay Ricochet Trap’s mana cost.
Change the target of target spell with a single target.
#87/145

if it fits in any legacy deck it would be this one. it will give us CA instead of 1:1 with our blasts. not only they'll not swords our painter, but their tarmos will be exiled. potential targets:

stp/ pte
burn (bolt, helix, blast...)
land/perm destruction (sinkhole, pulkse, vindicate, terminate...)
discard (misdirecting a hymn to tourach will be delicious)
draw spells?(not a lot, thinking about thirst for knowledge...)
bounce spells

if it has a place, i don´t know what to remove change form the standard list (I'm playing a very similar list like the one posted by drewlius maximus)

comments/thoughts?

ryO!
01-18-2010, 04:18 AM
Reb/Pyro can destroy permanent which made them really more powerful but yet it seems decent.
i don't really see what it could replace MD. Maybe worth a shot anyway replacing bolt/magma by them.

thorin_the_king
01-18-2010, 06:07 AM
maybe i've thought something wrong, but with painter in play we can play it always for :r:, isn't that true? I mean they play swords and the trap condition is met. or do the y have to cast a "blue" spell before the swords to fit the trap conditions?

ryO!
01-18-2010, 08:10 AM
maybe i've thought something wrong, but with painter in play we can play it always for :r:, isn't that true? I mean they play swords and the trap condition is met. or do the y have to cast a "blue" spell before the swords to fit the trap conditions?

no the trap condition only affect the casting cost
the effect remain the same w/o the condition but you ll have to pay 3R
but if painter is in play ofc u ll only have to pay R

Tao
01-18-2010, 08:35 AM
I think it works. Painter's Servant explicitly names spells.

wolfstorm
01-18-2010, 01:28 PM
I think I would at least try running one or two main board with the rest in the sideboard. And I think ricochet trap would also help our zoo matchup alot, misdirecting there bolts and path's back onto there creatures seems like win to me.

Malchar
01-18-2010, 02:05 PM
It's usually strictly worse than REB. You're going to need your opponent to have a creature to redirect the removal to, otherwise you can't do anything. I say it's better to just counter their spells outright rather than trying to gamble for a 2-for-1. Besides, it's nice to be able to counter any spell rather than merely targeted removal spells. If you already run 8 REB, then this card probably competes with Active Volcano.

DrewliusMaximus
01-18-2010, 08:48 PM
I think it's true that Ricochet Trap would probably only compete with Blast for slots, and Trap seems possibly better against Zoo, but strictly worse against everything else. I don't know what I would take out for it.

wolfstorm
01-18-2010, 09:31 PM
Wouldn't richocet trap be able to misdirect counterspells onto itself like misdirect?

mrorange
01-19-2010, 01:32 AM
Drewlius - What factors led you to your manabase of 3 city and 3 chrome mox? Also, would you keep the Figure count at 3 and leave the burn package unchanged?

cwt1220
01-19-2010, 10:08 AM
Wouldn't richocet trap be able to misdirect counterspells onto itself like misdirect?

It is worded the same as misdirection and that is what misdirection does. I would hope that it works this way, I would really like to try this card out. I believe that it will do well in the zoo match, but I don't believe that it is worse in the other matches (if you can actually turn counter at itself).

-Chris-

blaat
01-19-2010, 10:49 AM
It is worded the same as misdirection and that is what misdirection does. I would hope that it works this way, I would really like to try this card out. I believe that it will do well in the zoo match, but I don't believe that it is worse in the other matches (if you can actually turn counter at itself).

-Chris-

Example:

You: play any spell
Opponent: counterspell on your spell
You: Trap targeting counterspell.
You: change the target of counterspell to target Trap

Trap resolves now.
Counterspell fizzles (countered on resolution) because trap isn't a valid target anymore.
Your spell is on the stack now, and if your opponent doesn't cast a new counterspell or such, your spell resolves.

And now the better part:
If you have a painter in play, you can change the target of any spell that targets something because all spells are blue.
This will cost a single red mana instead of the actual 4 mana casting cost.
Indeed nice against Zoo with PtE/StP and burn spells.

If you don't have a painter and you want to change the target of a StP of PtE you have to pay the full casting cost unless your opponent played an brainstorm or such in that turn

thorin_the_king
01-19-2010, 12:00 PM
i really want to give a try to this new trap. it has it's pros and cons over blasts. Blast are not useful execpt against blue when painter is not in play. trap is overcosted if painter is not in play but it can be played at least. besides that, this decks relies on having painter in play (as well as the mana denial moon plan and beats, but we play 6-8 blasts maindeck because of him) and thta's why we play recruiter. Misdirection is worse than this trap, always making a 2:2 or 2:1 but this trap can be a 1:1 (when fighting in a counter war like blasts) or a 1:2 in most cases. Sure, it can't counter other threats like blast does but if we play both i think it will be ok. Now i don't know what it would be the right number to play MD and if the other are worth SB slots. I'll try to make a rough list:

4 IP
4 Magus
4 Painter
4 Grindstone
4 SSG
3 Mox
6 Blasts
3 Bolts
2 Jaya
3 Figure
2 Tops
1 shusher

10 mountain
1 fetch
4 tomb
3 cities

this is the list i play now.

maybe we can do -1 jaya, -1 figure, -1 ssg, to play 3 md

sb:
1 more trap
3 blood moon
1 bolt
3 relic
3 shatering
3 trini
2 magma jet

i know this is untested, I'll try to say in a few days how it worked for me despite my reduced group of playtesting. Anyway, I hope it will help

Thorin

cwt1220
01-19-2010, 12:48 PM
IMO, I would cut the MD shusher before I cut a Jaya, she is just too good to not be there. Plus if you want to run 3 traps main, you could cut the tops, as you do not run jets and only one fetch.

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
01-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Drewlius - What factors led you to your manabase of 3 city and 3 chrome mox? Also, would you keep the Figure count at 3 and leave the burn package unchanged?

Regarding the manabase, I think it's important to remember that Imperial Painter uses a Stompy manabase, but it's not really a Stompy deck. Dragon Stompy and Faerie Stompy for example want at least 2 or 3 mana on turn 1, almost every time whereas Painter can play easily off of a turn 1 mountain, and will many times then have 3 mana on turn 2. Fast mana is nice in Painter, but it's not as necessary as in Stompy decks.

I think a lot of people went down to 3 Moxes. I do it because getting 2 of them during the game is bad enough card disadvantage that it trumps the speed gain you get from running 4.

I had thought about replacing a City with another mountain for a while, but I didn't actually do it until about the time that I was using Figure in the deck. I like the stability of -1 City, +1 Mountain enough that I would probably keep this manabase even without Figures, but they provide even more incentive to run the extra red mana.

I would play 4 Figures if I had one more spot open. Right now, there is no card I would take out of the MD or SB for a fourth Figure though. I was also really happy with 2 Engineered Explosives in the SB, and that does justify playing one less 1-cc permanent.

The MD 2-2 Lightning Bolt/Magma Jet split with Bolts 3 and 4 in the SB worked well for me. In my opinion, deck manipulation is really good in Painter, and is more necessary in a land-heavy build like mine. But I whittled the number of Sensei's Tops to 2. I do not want to have any less than 4 deck-manipulation cards, and I would like to have at least 4 MD burn spells if possible. Again, it's mainly an issue of space in the deck. In this case another concern is Chalice of the Void and not having too many 1cc spells. Also, Top and Jet together dig pretty quickly through your deck. So, rather than play 3 Tops + 3 Bolts, I'm playing 2-2-2 Tops/Bolts/Jets.

wolfstorm
01-26-2010, 01:57 AM
So I've been thinking about the new trap and I believe that at least 2 deserve testing in the main board, there's been plenty of times where I've had to protect my painter where the trap could misdirect a bolt or swords onto there critter or onto my own recruiter(obviously burn spells can be misdirected back at the player). I believe it should make our zoo match up stronger being able to pray on there creatures using there own burn spells, whenever a painter is on the board they will have to think twice about trying to remove it for fear of possibly loosing there own creature.

cwt1220
01-26-2010, 02:30 AM
I am currently testing 2 traps in the place of 1 blast, and 1 land. I never really liked 19 land, so I am back to 18 and running 6 blasts and 2 traps seems a bit excessive.

-Chris-

Maggical
01-26-2010, 05:50 AM
Wich trap are you referring to?

blaat
01-26-2010, 10:03 AM
Wich trap are you referring to?

Ricochet Trap 3r
Instant - Trap Uncommon
If an opponent cast a blue spell this turn, you may pay {R} rather than pay Ricochet Trap’s mana cost.
Change the target of target spell with a single target.



Question, how often do you need weenie/figure beatings to win with this deck because of painter/stone fail (exiled,needle,iona/mmage)?
I'm building a slightly different uR version but want to cut Figures for better results.

ryO!
01-26-2010, 10:22 AM
Ricochet Trap 3r
Instant - Trap Uncommon
If an opponent cast a blue spell this turn, you may pay {R} rather than pay Ricochet Trap’s mana cost.
Change the target of target spell with a single target.



Question, how often do you need weenie/figure beatings to win with this deck because of painter/stone fail (exiled,needle,iona/mmage)?
I'm building a slightly different uR version but want to cut Figures for better results.

uR version is more or less only combo based so you don't need figures.
The Mono R version is combo/"aggro&control" so you do need the figures as they are the best red creature option for now. As rath said the control&aggro creatures are Magus&jaya backing up figures, i also use jitte/solas (2/1).

So yes if you play uR cut the figures.

Also figures not only help if you wanna go aggro mode but they can be used as a decoy for stp/bolt etc so your painter is safe.

To answer the "how often part", i am not sure really, better wait for drewlius/cwt1220 answer as my feedback aren't really representative (only used the deck at 2 tournaments).

Rath
01-26-2010, 11:27 AM
Ricochet Trap 3r
Question, how often do you need weenie/figure beatings to win with this deck because of painter/stone fail (exiled,needle,iona/mmage)?
I'm building a slightly different uR version but want to cut Figures for better results.

In my experience it was often an even split between aggro/control wins vs. combo wins. Finding a painter is never the problem, but grindstone can be tougher. Without a grindstone you win via combat with either a moon effect or blasts / jaya control.

cwt1220
01-26-2010, 02:30 PM
I would almost go as far as saying that I win half my games by beating for the win. If I have recruiter and no stone, I go for the figure and put pressure on them, make them use their removal and not have it for the painter. I would like to go to a 4th figure, but I don't want to rely so heavily on a curve of 1. I can't see anything now that would do what figure is doing for the deck now. In regards to the blue splash, I have tried it a few different ways and have never really liked it as much as straight red. Adding another color has always slowed the deck down and taken it away from what it is supposed to do. That is just my opinion though.

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
01-27-2010, 10:20 PM
So I've been thinking about the new trap and I believe that at least 2 deserve testing in the main board, there's been plenty of times where I've had to protect my painter where the trap could misdirect a bolt or swords onto there critter or onto my own recruiter(obviously burn spells can be misdirected back at the player). I believe it should make our zoo match up stronger being able to pray on there creatures using there own burn spells, whenever a painter is on the board they will have to think twice about trying to remove it for fear of possibly loosing there own creature.

The trap should be better against Zoo than Blast almost always, but I'm still worried about how conditional it might be overall. It's definitely worth trying and it'll be interesting to see how it works out.


Question, how often do you need weenie/figure beatings to win with this deck because of painter/stone fail (exiled,needle,iona/mmage)?
I'm building a slightly different uR version but want to cut Figures for better results.

Figure is good for more reasons than just helping the beatdown. He's also a cheap decoy and a wall. Drawing removal or counters for 1 red mana is a fine trade, and a 4/4 Figure helps stall while you assemble the combo. I think slightly more than half my wins are with the combo, but Figure is important in many of those games too. Like ryO! said though, you probably don't need Figures in a UR build.

blaat
01-28-2010, 12:57 PM
Thanks for the answers.

The current uR build I test is with 3-4 trinket mages with a single E.E and Top maindeck toolbox, with the rest of the toolbox SB (relic, crypt maybe even a meekstone).
Other additions are 1-2 shoreline ranger (for testing purposes) and a single llawan, cephalid empress.
Manabase + 3-4 scalding tarn, 1 volcanic island and 1 island, which makes a total of 19 land for now.

Assembling the combo feels so much better with the addition of trinket mage.
I even had games where I recruit a trinket mage for finding me a grindstone and win.

Llawan is a funny card that is tutorable, bounces all opponents creatures and if it sticks, stops the aggro plan of your opponent.
It's even better against merfolk (lot of players in my meta).

However, I do know as described above that the deck loses it's aggro plan and bait for opponents removal.
The mana base hasn't give me a serious problem yet (also because of the shoreline rangers) but there could be times you haven't found a island, need it, but have a blood moon effect out that kills your fetch/dual.
On the other hand, you do play only 4-5 blue spells anyway so it shouldn't be a big problem anyway.

moug
02-01-2010, 12:30 PM
Thanks for the answers.

The current uR build I test is with 3-4 trinket mages with a single E.E and Top maindeck toolbox, with the rest of the toolbox SB (relic, crypt maybe even a meekstone).
Other additions are 1-2 shoreline ranger (for testing purposes) and a single llawan, cephalid empress.
Manabase + 3-4 scalding tarn, 1 volcanic island and 1 island, which makes a total of 19 land for now.



I have been testing the blue version for some times
The MD tool box was
1 SDT
1 Meekstone (wonderful choice)

My advice would be to cut the shoreline ranger to catch 1 Solemn Simulacrum (get your island and draw).
I was playing a goblin welder too, making Solemn Simulacrum + SDT a nice drawing / chumpblock / shuffling engine .

On the end, the deck was pretty strong because of the Card advantage
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Trinket
1 Simulacrum

the beatdown was weak, so i had 3 jitte to help it a bit.



The mana base hasn't give me a serious problem yet (also because of the shoreline rangers) but there could be times you haven't found a island, need it, but have a blood moon effect out that kills your fetch/dual.
On the other hand, you do play only 4-5 blue spells anyway so it shouldn't be a big problem anyway.
Don't forget your mox chrome gives you blue with painter in play :tongue:

Oberon
02-01-2010, 01:30 PM
Also in the trinket version, one of the equipments should be replaced by the new basiliqk collar, leaving a 2/1 split with Jitte.

thorin_the_king
02-02-2010, 01:55 PM
we may indeed include one basilisk collar in the monored version. this would give us the possibility of stalling against big tarmos or sending recruiters into the red zone and forcing them to trade or open a 2 life breach. i'm considering putting one of this along a copy of goblin sharpshooter, which is a one sided wrath of god if they come online. what do you think?

DrGonz0
02-04-2010, 04:12 AM
hi there,
in the last few days i tested a white splash for the painter deck. i would like to hear some oppinions on this. i also would like to point out that i am new to this forum. although i read through the thread here, i might bring up considerations discussed in previous or other threads. i apologize in advance if i create any rendundancy here.

but now, fist of all, the list:

7 [ZEN] Mountain (1)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [EX] City of Traitors
1 [MR] Plains (2)
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
1 [A] Plateau
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
3 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
2 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 [EVE] Figure of Destiny
3 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [TE] Grindstone
3 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [5E] Pyroblast
3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
1 [9E] Blood Moon
2 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
3 [FD] Magma Jet

SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FD] Silent Arbiter
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 1 [CHK] Hearth Kami
SB: 1 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
SB: 1 Mother of Runes
SB: 1 [9E] Circle of Protection: Red

and here my thoughts:

[U]the white splash:
as noted a few pages back in this thread, the biggest problem for painter players are decks that heavily focus on beats supported by spot removal and/or burn. and of course the chalice issue. for the reason of white providing quiet nice answers to each of these threats i decided to splash it in. As it is my nature as an economist, i want to keep the splash as marginalized as possible, using only the best avalible, since overall consistency seems to be an issue too. And per se - it is negatively affected by an additional color. As non of the chosen white cards are limited in thier use as the white spell itself, i will discuss the single choices in the following greater context.

the mana base:
Whithin the MB there are only two white spells - namely the enlightened tutors. The SB adds in 3 further white spells for a possible total of 5 with no white spell having WW in its cost. therefor i think that 4 fetches, a Plateau and one basic plains is enough. When adjusting the manabase i add 4 shuffle effects. I stick with 19 Lands total, although i often feel that 18 would do as well. Yet better being save than sorry. I am on 3 chrome mox and 3 simmian spirit guides. The latter possition is a critical one for me. i cut the 4th ssg to be able to add in a Susher into the MB. this effectively reduces my chances of a first turn moon (or trini in g2 / g3) but i feel that 3 is barely enough. oppinions on this issue are especially welcome.

The MB:
This part of the Deck is quiet simmilar to the mono-red versions discussed in this thread. It basically features the same cards with the exception of the two enlightened tutor. Simultaneously i have gone down to 3 Grindstone, up to 3 top and only play a total of 4 moon-spells in the mainboard.

the tutors get two great jobs done. first of all they find both combo peaces if needed. additional they are adding in two more shuffle effects and potentially find you quiet a set of answers, especially after sideboarding. given the amount that can be found with them, i still consider to go up to 3 enlightened - maybe for cuting another grindstone?

the enlightened tutors themselves opened the door for my decission on the total moon count (SB+MB). i cut the additional moon effects from the sindeboard for the following reason: i have moon effects in creature and in entchantment form, 4 total. i have 4 recruiter and 2 enlightened tutors to find them. overall this adds up to 11 potential moons. Imho this is more than enough - especially given that i play only 3 ssg. i also cosider to go down to 2 magnus and up to 2 bloodmoon(even if this means having a dead bloodmon later in the game). this is a consequence of realizing that magnus can be answerd by many decks who just float a mana and send him straight to hell the moment he hits the table.

the next issue is the grindstone count. There is a tradeoff here. i rarely need more than one grindstone but, at any time, i would like to have one ready. beeing able to find them with enlightened, if you need them right now, is reason enough to go down to 3. above i stated me considering to cut another one for the reasons mentioned there and for the improved overall consistency(explained soon). but then again, i do not want to depend on a tutor to find the grindstone in general... what are your thoughts here?

having 4 fetches and 2 enlightened in the MB adds in 6 shuffle effects for a total of 10 with the imperial tutors. This is why i decided to go up to 3 senseis divining top. the combination of this along with the 3 magma jet provide me with plently of deck manipulation. this is adressing the consistency issue as one of the major problems of the deck.

for some general concerns i would like to add in a fourth figure but i cant convince myself what to cut for it. also, playing a total of only 3 burn spells, i might lack options to get rid of creatures. but then again, i go through my deck quiet fast to find them and painter+blast is also an answer. additionally the SB(as will be discussed later) provides alternatives to burn power. yet, im not dead sold on this issue. 2 additional lightning helix oder 2 lightning bolts are reasonable without question. the new ricochet trap needs consideration as well!

The SB:
The SB, on the first look, seems totally random. i admid this. but look at it from this point of view:
fist of all we have the usual stuff like gy-hate and trini. i think these are fix slots. adressing the remaining major problems of the deck i designed the rest of the SB to help against burn, the unloved chalice, spot-removal (i like my painters alive :P) and bare agression (hi there, tarmo folks).

the two EE, the seal of cleansing and the hearth kami are 4 options to answer artifacts (in particular chalice) and enchantments. i see these cards as the pile that replaced the 3 chattering spree and the viashino heretic i have used before. given the white splash, i have a white and a red source to answer artifacts and entchantments. both of them can be used at instant speed. additional the two EE, assuming painter set on a color other than red or white, can hit everything with cmc<4. All of this is tutorable, either by enlightened or by recruiter summing up to a potential 11 slots providing answers if needed. 4 of these tutors are not locked if chalice on 1 hits the table.

slowly but constantly running low on SB slots, i came up with a "mix" of solutions that answer creature based aggression along with spellbased aggression. lets start with creature based agression. against this, i chose the following pile: mother of runes, silent arbiter, basilisk collar(as of soon ;)), and a cop: red. i originally included the latter one, on advice of a friend, against burn and progenitus. but along with painter this amounts to a, somewhat cheesy but impenetrable, wall if not answered. therefor i do not consider it as too narrow.
the collar itself answers creatures as noone is willing to trade a muscular tarmo against a single imperial recruiter or hardcasted spirit guide. you are potentially drawing away spot removal from the vital stuff here. the livelink also is sweet vs burn. i considered sharpshooter as supposed in a post before but since shooter as well as collar needs to be tutored, an additional SB slot is lost and Jaja does the same job i discarded the idea. mother of runes answers aggression from non-trampling creatures in addition to protecting the vital elements from spot removal or burn.

regarding the silent arbiter... i am not sold on him. he is basically a decoy with a nice effect as long as its there. although he can be found by all the 6 tutors he is a walking target. then again, he can buy you time against empty the warrents, weeni, gobo, folk and so on. i really view this slot as the most weak spot in the whole SB. arbiter along with mother, to a lesser extend, are the slots that i consider debatable. Again, everything can be fetched by tutors just when needed.

Pithing needle, given 2 or more enlightened tutors in the MB, is a good choice. this one on pridemage, on vial, on survival, on an opponents top or on belcher... its too good to not have it. it can be found by tutors, it stalls vs combo in general and works nicely in the mirror matchup.


well, thats it. i am hungry for feedback on this... and thank you for reading "the spam" :P

best regards, DrGonzo

moug
02-04-2010, 06:21 AM
The first tests i made playing imperial painter was to start with a W splash.:smile:

I never find a way to make it work. The deck has too much CD (Simian, Moxes). Adding too more CD is not that efficient.
In my opinion, the W splash helps you in game 2/3 but makes your game 1 harder.

DrGonz0
02-04-2010, 06:32 AM
I never find a way to make it work. The deck has too much CD (Simian, Moxes). Adding too more CD is not that efficient.


you are right. the white splash gives me +2 cd. As i stated in my initial post, i´d like to keep the splash as marginalized as possible.
but note, by splashing, i get more consistency(10 vs 4 shuffle effects to abuse with senseis), what should at least in part negate the additional cd. moreover, as things are set now, i am on 3 ssg. so i gain a lot of deck manipulation and pay for it with +1 cd compared with the mono-red painter.
With this in mind, i think its a deal worth making.

edit: was there some consensus in the past that a white splash is definetly inferior to a mono-red or a Ur build ?

DrewliusMaximus
02-04-2010, 03:38 PM
DrGonz0, both blue and red splashes have been discussed in the thread previously. But, even though most performing lists are mono-red, I don't think there has been enough work done on this deck yet to say there's a consensus on the optimum build.

When I tried splashing, I remember thinking that the Moon strategy needed to be scaled back. If you are trying to keep your splash to a minimum though, you could play a 4th Figure and maybe a 4th Mox, and give yourself a good chance to get an artifact mana that will tap for white. This was the first thing that came to mind when I looked at your list...probably because in my last tournament, pitching a Figure to Mox turned out to be the game-winning play as I ended up being able to EE for 2 to clear the other guy's board. If you are just trying to accommodate 2 MD white spells, the extra Figure and Mox might be worth it if you keep the "early-Moon" strategy as part of your deck. Then you could board out some the of the Magi when you bring in additional white spells.

If I were to play a white splash, I would definitely want some Moms in the MD. Considering that, I might also try Aether Vials, but then it starts becoming a whole different deck.

DrGonz0
02-04-2010, 04:31 PM
If you are just trying to accommodate 2 MD white spells, the extra Figure and Mox might be worth it if you keep the "early-Moon" strategy as part of your deck. Then you could board out some the of the Magi when you bring in additional white spells.


i definetly want to keep the option to bust out with an early moon and i want to keep the white count as low as possible. you got me right here. the goal i want to accomplish with the minimum white is just to open up a few more options to increase consistency and utility after boarding. so i dont think i want more than one mom in the SB at this point in time. but as i mentioned and i´d love to punch in a 4th figure! these dudes are sweet.

up to now i did not consider an additional mox but its worth a thought. the major problem is what to cut out.
one slot could possibly be found by pushing the susher into the sb, maybe for cuting the silent arbiter. then again, using an additional mox decreases the overall consistency, as i will suffer additional cd. on the other hand, from time to time i find myself playing a painter on white for obvious reasons and regreting it later on when i cannot blast a threat since its not blue. from this point of view, maybe its not a bad idea.

i might be overrating the 3rd senseis divining top? jet, i belive with 10 shuffle effects this is ok. but adding a 4th figure, and assuming i do not pitch it upon a mox in every game, will also demand some mana to grow the figure. thereby leaving less for using the top.

do you have an oppinion about what i could(or should) cut for an additional slot?

DrewliusMaximus
02-04-2010, 10:43 PM
I'd leave the Shusher in and take out 1 Top and 1 Mountain. The Mox replaces the mountain. If you start getting too many Moxes, I would go back to 3, but especially with E Tutors I would play the 4th Figure over the 3rd Top.

blaat
02-05-2010, 02:49 PM
I have been testing the blue version for some times
The MD tool box was
1 SDT
1 Meekstone (wonderful choice)

My advice would be to cut the shoreline ranger to catch 1 Solemn Simulacrum (get your island and draw).
I was playing a goblin welder too, making Solemn Simulacrum + SDT a nice drawing / chumpblock / shuffling engine .

On the end, the deck was pretty strong because of the Card advantage
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Trinket
1 Simulacrum

the beatdown was weak, so i had 3 jitte to help it a bit.


Don't forget your mox chrome gives you blue with painter in play :tongue:

Meekstone is indeed a nice trinket target but i'm still figuring out if it should be MD or SB.
Solemn is a great tutor target too, but see under here.

The other option I forgot to mention about the mana base is the addition of Fire // Ice.
Chrome mox + fire//ice gives blue mana when needed (if you have no painter in play) and the card itself is good enough to run in this deck.
They will replace 2-3 MD Bolts if it is as good as it is on paper.

cwt1220
02-05-2010, 05:09 PM
I am playing 2 riccochet traps in drew's most recent list by replacing 1 land and 1 blast. So far it has been very good with the only exception being against lands. Lands is already a great match and traps just pitch to jaya or moxes so it isn't even a problem. I am trying to find a place for one basilisk collar in the main because it seems to be really good. I will post a new list in the next day or two with my changes.

-Chris-

DrGonz0
02-05-2010, 07:27 PM
has anyone tested grim lavamancer? for me, playing magma jet in the MB and lightning bolt in the SB, i consider to exchange 2 bolts for 2 of these friendly wizzards in order to test it.
one could argue that they compeete with Jaja(in some fashion) and they might be to slow.

on the other hand, he answers ugly stuff like pridemages along with "manaelves" that weaken your moon power. and, if not answerd in time, it removes the issue of an opponent stacking exalted and beating upon you(this might only be true for me - but exalted is giving me a hard time). furthermore it thins out your GY what will potentially weaken the opposing players tarmos. in addition, having a figure and grim ready will scare away grown tarmos.
still, if you get a lavamancer to resolve, it will problably be removed by some swords to plowsahres or stuff alike a few turns later.
but thats one more figure or painter alive.

has anyone given this a deeper thought or actually tested it ?

cwt1220
02-07-2010, 12:32 PM
The following is my most current list and seems to be the most optimized list that I can make:

Lands:
11-Mountain
4-Ancient Tomb
3-City of Traitors

Creatures:
4-Imperial Recruiter
4-Painter's servant
4-Simian Spirit Guide
4-Magus of the Moon
3-Figure of Destiny
2-Jaya Ballard
1-Vexing Shusher
1-Zo-Zu, the Punisher

Spells:
4-Lightning Bolt
4-Grindstone
3-Chrome Mox
3-Red Elemental Blast
2-Pyroblast
2-Ricochet Trap
1-Basilisk Collar

Sideboard:
3-Relic of Progenitus
3-Shattering Spree
3-Blood Moon
3-Trinisphere
1-Silent Arbiter
1-Vexing Shusher
1-Goblin Sharpshooter

Explanations:
Basilisk Collar: Works well with the aggro plan and very well with cards such as Jaya, and Zo-Zu.

Ricochet Trap: Has been very good in testing so far, with the only weakness being against Lands. Lands is already an extremely favorable match, and the traps just pitch to Chrome Mox, or Jaya Ballard. When I added the trap in, I cut one blast , because it seemed a bit excessive.

Zo-Zu, the Punisher: He is a little obscure, but is really good in the bant, zoo, and lands match. When you put a collar on him he is a 4 life swing whenever they play a land, and he negates your life loss.

Goblin Sharpshooter: I tried him in the main and all he ever really seemed to do was be the 4th damage on a war monk and not much else, but he gets boarded in for aggro as a one-sided wrath of god, when you use the collar.

Everything else I feel is self-explanatory. Any questions or comments are much appreciated.

-Chris-

thorin_the_king
02-07-2010, 05:19 PM
I really like your list cwt1220, even without tops. I'm always debating myself about their inclusion or not. I mean they're great sometimes and other times without shuffle effects they're nasty. I don't know what to do with them. have you dismissed tops always since you play the deck?

The other thing i would like to say is that you try explosives in the sb. I'm really fed up with those burrenton-forge tender's a like creatures that i can't blast, bolt or block. Equipped with jitte they're a nightmare. Oh and those moms of the runes also :).Even in mono-red we can remove a figure or any non land non artifact card with painter out to cast explosives for 2. Maybe I can suggest:
-1 shattering, -1 Arbiter, + 2 explosives.

Well, hope this helps even if it's just a little opinion from someone who has started only 5 months ago to play the deck in real life. (recruiters are not easy to find :) ).

Tell me what you think.

Thorin

cwt1220
02-07-2010, 06:43 PM
I have tried the tops and they just don't fit into the way I like to play the deck. I haven't come across forge-tender ever so I never thought of those problems. I would like the inclusion of explosives, I just can't decide where to put it yet. Silent arbiter is the only creature that I am not sure of as of now. That will definitely become an explosives if it comes down to it, but I can't see playing less than 3 sprees.

-Chris-

thorin_the_king
02-08-2010, 12:23 PM
In regards of grim lavamancer, I tested him with four fetch instead of one to increase cards in yard, but i found tht i didn't have enough cards to make it work. I founded a one mana pinger that maybe it's worth considering, now that basilisk colar is available.

Kris Mage

Creature - Human Spellshaper 1/1, R (1)
{R}, {T}, Discard a card: Kris Mage deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
"Her blade draws blood without ever touching its target."
Illus. Matthew Wilson

another idea i want to throw up in the air is the inclusion of goblin welder. I saw in the format and article discussion a thread about goblin welder and elsewhere flask as a viable drawing engine. I know that the deck has to change a lot of cards to fit it but both cards are interesting on their own. I mean welder can save your combo pieces and can atract removal as figure does and flask cantrips and it lets you have all the red mana available when you need it because of its sac ability.

are they crazy ideas or so you see something neary worth of testing?

cwt1220
02-08-2010, 03:36 PM
I like the 1 red mana cost of Kris Mage, but I would still play jaya over it because of the "pyroblast" ability as well as inferno( which I have only done once). I used to play 1-2 welder when there was alot of k. grip around, but I don't see that nearly as much any more. I think I would rather play top+fetches than welder+flask. Flask just seems a little to slow, but again it may work for others, but it just doesn't fit into the way I like to play the deck. So far through some testing, trap has been great and collar has been amazing. I am trying to find a way to get a second or maybe even a third collar in the deck and maybe even move the sharpshooter to the main, depending on the meta.

-Chris-

thorin_the_king
02-08-2010, 04:06 PM
I like the 1 red mana cost of Kris Mage, but I would still play jaya over it because of the "pyroblast" ability as well as inferno( which I have only done once). I used to play 1-2 welder when there was alot of k. grip around, but I don't see that nearly as much any more. I think I would rather play top+fetches than welder+flask. Flask just seems a little to slow, but again it may work for others, but it just doesn't fit into the way I like to play the deck. So far through some testing, trap has been great and collar has been amazing. I am trying to find a way to get a second or maybe even a third collar in the deck and maybe even move the sharpshooter to the main, depending on the meta.

-Chris-

If kris mage would fit, i think it wouldn't be in the place of jayas, but in addition to them, maybe as a 2 of. And adding a 2nd or third collar to the deck would really improve the "pinger" quality of jaya and kris mage. I don't know, i will test them and try to fit some collars also in my deck and see what results i get.

Thorin

ryO!
02-09-2010, 05:10 AM
isn't that better than shapshooter?
Cunning Sparkmage
Creature - Human Shaman
Haste
: Cunning Sparkmage deals 1 damage to target creature or player.

and kris is damn worse than jaya imo, on the other hand Basilisk Collar seems really interesting i might try it out instead of jittes.

DrGonz0
02-09-2010, 06:42 AM
In regards of grim lavamancer, I tested him with four fetch instead of one to increase cards in yard, but i found tht i didn't have enough cards to make it work.

i agree with ou here. once he enters the field hes nice as he does damage one or two times. but then hes just another 1/1 creature siding imperial painter in doing nothing. good on paper, wasted slot in reality.

thorin_the_king
02-09-2010, 09:19 AM
isn't that better than shapshooter?
Cunning Sparkmage
Creature - Human Shaman
Haste
: Cunning Sparkmage deals 1 damage to target creature or player.

and kris is damn worse than jaya imo, on the other hand Basilisk Collar seems really interesting i might try it out instead of jittes.

kris is worse than jaya for sure, it was the one mana casting cost that appealed to me...but maybe the activation cost is too much CD combined with jaya. I wanted to maximize the effect of collars, but maybe he's not the answer...

blaat
02-09-2010, 11:44 AM
kris is worse than jaya for sure, it was the one mana casting cost that appealed to me...but maybe the activation cost is too much CD combined with jaya. I wanted to maximize the effect of collars, but maybe he's not the answer...

Another funny card is:
Fire Ants
Creature - Insect 2/1, 2R (3)
{T}: Fire Ants deals 1 damage to each other creature without flying.

Beat for 2 or clear the board with active basilisk collar (and keep beating for 2 and/or clear the board again)

cwt1220
02-09-2010, 01:17 PM
isn't that better than shapshooter?

In a word, No. Sharpshooter is clearly better than any other "pinger" out there now, because of his untap ability. That is why he is in the board of my deck now. He acts as a kill-switch, or one-sided wrath effect. You also don't have to pay mana into him to use him, or lose a card.

-Chris

Rath
02-09-2010, 03:52 PM
@cwt1220

How are you finding the deck with your Worldwake changes? You have basically removed all search and shuffle effects from the deck (top, magma jet, any fetches), so I was just wondering how it plays now... I am assuming you are in top-deck mode a lot, and how often do you get the collar (you can search for zo-zo... but not collar)?

cwt1220
02-09-2010, 05:23 PM
Zo-zu isn't there just for the collar, I just like him anyway. :) I don't end up top deck mode very often, because top and jet aren't draw agents, they are there for consistency. I am trying to make my builds more aggro to adapt to a faster pace of legacy. You can play super aggressive and empty your hand, or play conserative. I don't want to sound like a broken record but I like the really aggro builds. I am also trying to find a place for a second collar, I believe that it is going to be in a place of my shusher.

-Chris-

p.s. I am not trying to come off sounding like a jerk, I am just very adament in my opinions. :)

ryO!
02-11-2010, 03:34 PM
gonna try this list on saturday :

10 Mountain
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
1 Jaya
1 Eexplosive
3 Figure
1 goblin shaprshooter (instead of 1 susher)
1 Hearth kami
6 Blast
4 Grindstone
3 lightning bolt (might try 2 Trap 1 bolt)
3 Basilik collar ( instead of 2 jitte 1 SoLS)

SB
3 Trinisphere
2 Relic
1 tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree (till i replace them with earthquake)
1 Eexplosive
1 shusher
3 firespout
1 Stingscourger (or 1 Silent arbiter no rly sure)

as i ve always played with 3 equipement i really feel like 3 collar is the right number, comparing to 1 which is up to me something like gambling.
i was also thinking about doing that
-2 mountain
+1 red fetch
+1 dual land with red
(Eexplosive wise)
or is it simply useless ?

and cwt1220 your are right, shapeshooter > the 0/1 hast tap for 1 dmg to player or creature and especially with collar.

cwt1220
02-11-2010, 10:10 PM
I don't think you need to add a dual for the explosives. If it comes down to it, you can just mox a Shusher or a Figure. The only thing I don't like about your list is the lack of a second Jaya. She is just really good on her own, and she gets better with a collar. I would cut the explosives for a second one if I were you, and move the explosives to the board. I updated my list today by adding a second collar, and moving the Sharpshooter to the main, and so far testing has been really good. I am in the middle of reshaping the sideboard by taking out 3sphere cause I never play them and focusing more on stopping Progenitus and Iona (which seem to get played a lot). The only though I have so far is, one of my teammates mentioned Arena of the Ancients. It makes it so they don't even get a swing out of either of them. Any thoughts of better cards are much appreciated.

-Chris-

ryO!
02-12-2010, 09:34 AM
it s pretty simple to be honnest for prog
it s called anarchy

I ll follow your advice on jaya i guess, on the other hand a solution like EE MD is nice.

Edit : INDEED iona names red ^^ okay well at least anarchy get rid of prog and white cards as bonus. My post a a bit stupid i concede !

so well about iona just play 4 Faeries macabre and be sure you got one in hand as fast as possible. and remove iona in response to loyal sac. they are usefull anyway so it s not a dead SB/MD card.


except the fact that with iona in play they're naming red, so no anarchy, and with painter in play they're naming the color we named in painter so that's even worse, no anarchy, no arena of the ancients,... I don't know what we can do to stop retainers iona combo

Why not red? painters color blocks them as well and as we play mono red ... oh ok ... second stupid post from me, so we cannot do anything at all and they can swing us to death with it anyway.

well as i ve said above the only solution is Faerie macabre.

thorin_the_king
02-12-2010, 10:00 AM
except the fact that with iona in play they're naming red, so no anarchy, and with painter in play they're naming the color we named in painter so that's even worse, no anarchy, no arena of the ancients,... I don't know what we can do to stop retainers iona combo

cwt1220
02-12-2010, 03:49 PM
With the decks the run Iona/Retainers, I assemble the combo in hand and wait for them to drop Iona, then combo off. Same goes for Arena of the Ancients, play it after Iona/Progenitus hits play, That way they get tapped down and can't attack. I beat Bant, w/Iona a few times yesterday in testing by dropping turn 1 Sharpshooter, then a collar, he drops Iona, it dies hard.:tongue:

Slightly new list:

Lands:
11-Mountain
4-Ancient Tomb
3-City of Traitors

Creatures:
4-Imperial Recruiter
4-Painter's servant
4-Simian Spirit Guide
4-Magus of the Moon
3-Figure of Destiny
2-Jaya Ballard
1-Goblin Sharpshooter


Spells:
4-Lightning Bolt
4-Grindstone
3-Chrome Mox
3-Red Elemental Blast
2-Pyroblast
2-Ricochet Trap
2-Basilisk Collar

Sideboard:
3-Relic of Progenitus
3-Shattering Spree
3-Blood Moon
2-Vexing Shusher
2-Arena of the Ancients
1-Viashino Heretic (also works well with collar)
1-Zo-Zu, the Punisher (I like him too much for him to not be there)

From testing, I felt that a second collar needed to be added, and when that was done, Sharpshooter got moved to the main. Pridemage used to be really bad for the combo(still is), but it is not so bad now that they have to worry about killing a collar, so it doesn't kill them.

gamegeek2
02-13-2010, 07:51 PM
With Basilisk Collar in Worldwake, Trinket Mage looks even more appealing.

This is my build of the deck, updated for WWK:

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
2 Arid Mesa
2 Mountain
1 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
1 Academy Ruins

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter's Servant
4 Trinket Mage
3 Figure of Destiny
1 Vexing Shusher

4 Grindstone
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Engineered Explosives

--- Sideboard ---
3 Blood Moon
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Hydroblast
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

Collar and Explosives, along with Blast+Painter, serve as the deck's removal. The sideboard's designed so you can swap out red blasts for blue blasts against Zoo, Aggro Loam, and the like - so you start naming red with your blasts.

cwt1220
02-14-2010, 12:50 PM
I really like your list gamegeek. I have been testing something very similar, but I run the counter/top package. I think your list needs more tops, maybe 1-2 more. They will work really well with the increased amount of shuffle effects. I would also consider meekstone in the board, as it is good in almost all matches. Just my 2 cents.:wink:

-Chris-

ryO!
02-14-2010, 04:24 PM
interesting list indeed but running 4 trinket & 4 grindstone seems to be a waste.
i d go for 2/3 less stones.

thorin_the_king
02-15-2010, 12:21 PM
agreed, 4 trinket + 3 grindstone should be enough. By the way, if I were splashing for trinket here's what i would run:

23 creatures

4 recruiter
4 magus
4 SSG
4 painter
4 trinket
1 Jaya
1 shusher
1 Sharpshooter

10 artifacts

3 mox
3 grindstone
1 explosives
1 top
1 meekstone (this is huge)
1 collar

9 burn and blasts

3 reb
3 pyro
3 burn (maybe bolts, or fire/ices (this will allow to have another blue spell for chrome mox and i like it's versatiliy))

18 lands

4 tomb
2 city
4 red/blue fetch
2 volcanic island
1/2 island
4/5 mountain
0/1 academy ruins (not sure about this since we play magus i think it won't be worth the slot)

SB:

I don't know if the route of blue blasts is ok, but it's worth at least some testing.
personally i think i would run for sure

3 trini
3 relic
3 shattering
3 moon
and 3 meta slots

but if going with this sb as gamegeek2 suggests:

--- Sideboard ---
3 Blood Moon
+3 Relic of Progenitus
+3 Hydroblast
+3 Blue Elemental Blast
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Red Elemental Blast
-------------------------------
14 cards so I'll add a second shusher or explosives to make this blasts work under chalice.

I also think if we go R/U, figure it's not worth considering, we become a more controlish deck and at the same time we can assemble the combo earlier, plus a pumped figure doesn't get on well with meekstone and with explosives any time.

Sorry for this looong post :)

Thorin

thorin_the_king
02-16-2010, 04:58 PM
well, time to decide what 75 cards i'm playing for the gp.

I tested a build with 3 moons Md and no figures, and it was ok, but i think i prefer to have no dead draws in my 1st games and extra blood moons will clog up in my hand. So the final version is as follows:

// Lands
3 [EX] City of Traitors
11 [ZEN] Mountain (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
2 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
2 [EVE] Figure of Destiny

// Spells
1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
4 [IA] Pyroblast
1 [DK] Blood Moon
4 [BD] Lightning Bolt

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [DK] Blood Moon
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 2 [PLC] Sulfur Elemental

the only thing i doubt about is the last two sb slots, but this cards appeals a lot to me (for the ones who don't know him):

Creature - Elemental 3/2, 2R (3)
Flash (You may cast this spell any time you could cast an instant.)

Split second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't cast spells or activate abilities that aren't mana abilities.)

White creatures get +1/-1

I'm testing this as an out to loyal iona combo, since we can play it in response to retainers. plus it will keep of game those nasty moms and burrentons i hate from wweenies , uw tempo and such. i like his sinergy with servant cause he can play very well against tribal decks if we name the appropiate color. if only he was a 2/3....

any advice from you, imperial players? :)

Thanks in advance

Thorin

cwt1220
02-16-2010, 08:35 PM
I like your list, for the most part.lol. I think 8 blasts is a little excessive. If you cut 2 of them, then you could play an extra collar (which has been incredible in testing for me), and a 3rd figure, or a sharpshooter. I also find trinisphere very sub-par, because there is an extreme lack of combo, and that is the only case I would use them. Arena of the Ancients has been pretty decent in testing, it makes it so you have a lot more time against Iona and Progenitus, which seem to be in just about every deck. I never thought of Sulfur Elemental to deal with retainers, that is a pretty good idea. Hope this helps, and good luck in the GP!!

-Chris-

DrewliusMaximus
02-16-2010, 08:51 PM
I find it interesting that most people on this thread don't use Tops normally, but at larger tournaments I think they are more important than ever.

On the other hand, I haven't played with Collar yet.

ryO!
02-17-2010, 04:11 AM
8 blast is way too much and therefor a risky bet. 6 has been the right number for all the effective decks.
So i d go for +1 collar / + 1 sharpshooter MD
I d also for for -1 Moon MD +1 figure/jitte/collar/top but here here it s a personal choice.
As maximus said top has proven itself in large events.
Sulfur elemental is awful in my opinion, faerie macabre seems to be the most relevant card against iona.
As for prog anarchy seems better but i guess Arena of the Ancients is ok.

Onslaught
02-19-2010, 07:03 AM
Eight REB/Pyroblast isn't excessive at all, the format is dominated by decks with blue in them and you have a considerable amount of pitch effects to get rid of them if Painter isn't in play. A version with 8 REB plays differently, but don't act like six is some dogmatically agreed upon "correct amount" for the number of REB effects to play.

Also, I'm not seeing the point to playing X copies of Ricochet Trap before the REB count is at 8. Ricochet Trap is cuter and fancier, but REB is safer than Trap when Painter isn't in play - and strictly better than Trap when Painter actually is in play.

cwt1220
02-19-2010, 02:36 PM
The point of playing the trap, is that I almost always find it better to misdirect a path or a burn spell then just straight counter it. If they play a counter spell, then it does the same as a blast. The mana cost for trap has never been a problem, so I see no reason to not play it in my build. It may just come down to personal preference, but I find 5 blast and 2 trap to work very well for me.

-Chris-

ryO!
02-19-2010, 03:33 PM
Eight REB/Pyroblast isn't excessive at all, the format is dominated by decks with blue in them and you have a considerable amount of pitch effects to get rid of them if Painter isn't in play. A version with 8 REB plays differently, but don't act like six is some dogmatically agreed upon "correct amount" for the number of REB effects to play.

Also, I'm not seeing the point to playing X copies of Ricochet Trap before the REB count is at 8. Ricochet Trap is cuter and fancier, but REB is safer than Trap when Painter isn't in play - and strictly better than Trap when Painter actually is in play.
if you meta is full of blue well then ok, else i d never go for 8 MD, as for the trap part, well it's not necessarily dead if the opponent doesnt play blue w/o Painter in play. And as cwt1220 said the misdirect effect is really efficient.
I ll finally play another tour with this deck again on sunday so i ll let you know the feedbacks.

Vesper Ghoul
02-23-2010, 08:11 AM
Hello this is my first post to the forum I ran Painter in a tournament this Sunday and went 2-3 I'll give you a quick account of how it went and my deck list. I based my version off of "Seichter" Painter and added some of the changes from Drew Feder but not all of them.

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Blood Moon
3 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
3 Figure of Destiny
4 Grindstone
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Magma Jet
4 Magus of the Moon
8 Mountain
4 Painter's Servant
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Board (I know this needs work)
3 Trinisphere
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 lightning bolt
1 Vashino Heretic
1 Arena of the Ancients
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Goblin Sharpshooter

Round 1 Vial Goblins (Loss)
1. Between the Waste Lands and a quick pile of goblins gempalm cycling to kill painter Pro blue Piledrivers are tough to deal with I lost unable to combo off.
2. Ealry Painter and team go agro for the win (sided in Trinisphere)
3. Can't recall but I lost

Round 2 got "paired up" to Goyf Sligh (Loss)
1. Too much burn lost rather quickly I would have fended better if I chose to Blood Moon instead of trying to get down a painter.
2. Early Moon lock down without splash colors I held out and combo'd
3. had the winning mill on the stack and got burned out I dropped a ancient tomb that turn with a moon down and got Price of progressed if I didn't play it I would have won.

Round 3 Landstill (Win)
1. Moon and Painter Early total blowout
2. Moon and later painter closer but I never got lower than 20 life

Round 4 Countertop Progenitus (Win)
1. Too many main deck blasts for the deck to keep up with
2. 1st turn Moon was all she wrote

Round 5 Eva Green (Loss)
1. Lost all of my important stuff to hand disruption and then was beat down with Tomb Stalker
2. Between hand destruction and land destruction I saw 3 Figures and they never lived up to their potential and also never saw a Trinisphere

DrewliusMaximus
02-23-2010, 07:51 PM
Round 1 Vial Goblins (Loss)
1. Between the Waste Lands and a quick pile of goblins gempalm cycling to kill painter Pro blue Piledrivers are tough to deal with I lost unable to combo off.
2. Ealry Painter and team go agro for the win (sided in Trinisphere)
3. Can't recall but I lost

Vesper Ghoul, I've found that Trinisphere isn't worth it against Goblins. All they have to do is get a Vial or Lackey down before you play it, and sometimes it will backfire on you when they Waste your lands.


Round 5 Eva Green (Loss)
1. Lost all of my important stuff to hand disruption and then was beat down with Tomb Stalker
2. Between hand destruction and land destruction I saw 3 Figures and they never lived up to their potential and also never saw a Trinisphere

I don't side in Trinisphere against Eva Green either. Again, their land destruction can cause it to backfire on you, especially if you're playing a mana-light Painter build. Against Eva, I would just concentrate on hating the graveyard.

My feeling is that Trinisphere should only come in against Storm Combo, Reanimator, Dredge or StifleNought.

Too bad about that Goyf Sligh match. Winning that one would have been a real achievement because it's a really unfavorable matchup.

Onslaught
02-24-2010, 02:04 AM
I used to really like playing Active Volcano in the board, probably because I'm usually pretty aggressive in going for the mana denial route with my 8 REB build. There wasn't really room for it in newer builds, but lately I've been running Pillage as an overcosted artifact kill with the added bonus of helping the mana denial plan if you're at a point where destroying lands is worth it.

I see the deck as a swiss army knife - combo, control, beatdown, aggro disruption, burn, land destruction...so running a multifunctional card like Pillage is really appealing to me.

ryO!
02-24-2010, 08:45 AM
played my tour
ended up in a sad 2-2
with this list
10 Mountain
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
3 Figure
1 goblin shaprshooter
1 Hearth kami
5 Blast
2 trap
4 Grindstone
2 lightning bolt
2 Basilik collar
1 Jitte

SB
2 faerie macabre
2 tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
1 shusher
1 firespout
2 Blood Moon
1 Stingscourger
1 lightening bolt
2 Needle

side is crappy due to the fact that i forgot Ee and Trini at home
QUICK report

G1 2-1 Rock
not much to say


G2 1-2 Ant
well no trini in SB is annoying ... i eventually win g1, g2 i had enough turn before he goes ... but i ve never seen my Gstone, g3 he had the perfect hand and goes T1.

G3 1-2 bant
not much to say i did a huge mistake on g2 that cost me the game (i had won g1), g3 he had like 10 top deck in a row ...

G4 2-0
strange BG anti combo deck but still i win.

well it was a really short game report but about the cards :
sharpshooter is SLOW, i ll test the 0/1 tap for 1 dmg haste instead of it. Back in all games i ve play in this tour the haste would have saved me (BoB, Hierach, BoP, etc).
Trap is nice but against deck like ant, as none of their spell target, it's pretty much a dead card. Yet it s still a nice trick against conterspell effects/bolt effects/StP effects.
Kami MD is still really nice.
i love turn 1 magus !
i ll go for rolling Equake instead of firespout in SB

Mr.C
02-26-2010, 01:51 AM
With Basilisk Collar in Worldwake, Trinket Mage looks even more appealing.

This is my build of the deck, updated for WWK:

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
2 Arid Mesa
2 Mountain
1 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
1 Academy Ruins

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter's Servant
4 Trinket Mage
3 Figure of Destiny
1 Vexing Shusher

4 Grindstone
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Chrome Mox
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Engineered Explosives

--- Sideboard ---
3 Blood Moon
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Hydroblast
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

Collar and Explosives, along with Blast+Painter, serve as the deck's removal. The sideboard's designed so you can swap out red blasts for blue blasts against Zoo, Aggro Loam, and the like - so you start naming red with your blasts.

Just won a 16 man here in Vancouver with this one, with -1 Recruiter + 1 Jaya (don't have 4 recruiter).

Beat LifeDot (About Face/Kor/Diamond Valley), Solidarity and Zoo, and drew with Zoo in round 4.

Edit before i sleep:

Some Thoughts:

-Basilisk Collar is decent. Helped keep me alive, by having Recruiters staring down goyf.
-Sometimes I wished Trinket Mage was Cruel Tutor/Grim Tutor or something. I wonder if I can a manabase that works...
-Jaya was removal bait
-Zoo is horrible pre-board, winnable post board.
-Needs something better against storm combo. Pyrostatic Pillar? Might be a shot in the foot. Was thinking of Cerbral Vortex, lol.

ryO!
02-27-2010, 02:00 PM
play a 32 man tour

ended up in a sad 3-2 (ended 9th) after starting 3-0 !
with this list

10 Mountain
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
3 Figure
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Hearth kami
5 Blast
2 trap
4 Grindstone
3 lightning bolt
1 Basilik collar
1 Jitte

SB
2 faerie macabre
2 tormod's Crypt
2 Shattering Spree
1 shusher
2 Blood Moon
1 Stingscourger
1 goblin welder
2 Needle
1 Blast

G1 2-0 Bant (opponent will end 3rd of the tour)
g1 combo turn 3
g2 combo turn 4 Cunning Sparkmage on Noble hierarch is awesome

G2 2-1 Painter Ur (stiflenought+painter combo)
g1 i win aggro mode
g2 eventually on turn 50 he goes combo (funny mirror game !)
g3 i combo turn 2

G3 2-0 Ant
g1 he goes off with 11 life and die
g2 i combo turn 4, blocking him with magus and pithing on SDT

G4 0-2 crappy shitty discard deck (she ll end 2nd of the tour)
g1 mulligan to 6, awful game, she discards all the thing i need then double rack
g2 here we go the exact same

G5 1-2 Cthresh (he ll end 4th of the tour)
g1 long game, i eventually win aggro mode
g2 he is kinda lucky and top deck answer to all my threat and win
g3 long game but in the end he tarmogoyfed me, then again answering most of my threat ...

to sum it up, it wasn't that bad, considering i played against the 2nd 3rd and 4th of the tour.
Cunning Sparkmage is imo way better than shapshooter, haste is not to under estimate at all.

i am currently happy with this list to be honnest, and discard is a TERRIBLE MU ... And i really have to find a place for Ee.
As it has been said above, anyone have tried black with 2 or 3 Cruel Tutor?
should be smth like this : (grim tutor is really bad due to BB)

2 Badlands
4 Mountain
4 Fetch
4 AT
4 COT
3 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Jaya
3 Figure
1 Cunning Sparkmage
5 Blast
1 trap
1 Top
2 Grindstone
3 Cruel Tutor
3 lightning bolt
1 Basilik collar
1 Jitte

mchainmail
02-27-2010, 02:24 PM
G3 2-0 Ant
g1 he goes off with 11 life and die
g2 i combo turn 4, blocking him with magus and pithing on LED



Pithing needle on LED does nothing...

ryO!
02-27-2010, 02:30 PM
Pithing needle on LED does nothing...

on SDT not led sorry

thorin_the_king
02-27-2010, 03:55 PM
hi guys, coming back from gp madris. dropped after 7th round, wih a 4-3 record due to being unable to make day 2.

win 2-0 1s round (he didint show)

win 2-1 against meathooks

lost 0-2 against TES

win 2-1 against GW berserk stompy

lost 1-2 aainst UR faeriestill featuring lavamancers and lots of bluered blasts in sb

win 2-0 against the rock

lost 1-2 to merfolks...my god a very favourable matchup but shit happens...


will post my list and a report tomorrow, im very tired now. this deck is awesome for me, i love it

cheers, imperial painters.

-Thorin-

thorin_the_king
03-01-2010, 02:51 PM
well now i have a little spare time so i will tell you a little more from the GP:

first of all my list:

// Lands
3 [EX] City of Traitors
10 [ZEN] Mountain (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
2 [TSP] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
2 [EVE] Figure of Destiny
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter

// Spells
1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
4 [TE] Grindstone
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
3 [IA] Pyroblast
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [BD] Lightning Bolt

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [DK] Blood Moon
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 2 [PLC] Sulfur Elemental

Round 1 vs. Miguel (he didn't show up) 2-0

Round 2 vs. Javier playing Meathooks 2-1

Game 1: He wins the die roll and starts with mutavault. i play mountain go (blast open thinking im playing merfolk), he plays tundra sinew sliver so i try to resolve magus second turn wich gets dazed, next turn recruiter for magus while bolting a sliver, i play magus turn 4 floats white and plows my magus. when i had 7 mana and his only open mana was tundra and 2 cards in hand i go off, blasting a bstorm in response to playing painter.

Game 2: I tried to resolve a 1st turn blood moon which is a mistake, should have waited for 2nd turn to have blast protection or paying daze with ssg. his board grows too fast before i can combo.

Game 3: Go all-in SSG+Tomb=Magus. It resolves and 3 turns after i combo.

Round 3 vs. Jeroén playing T.E.S 0-2

Game 1: I win the die roll and i lead with mountain go. he plays gemstone and i think he plays dredge until he taps for ponder. i let it resolve and play a second turn magus of a chrome mox (removing sharpshooter) leaving me with open mana to blast something and a painter in hand.

on his turn he made city of brass, rite of flame x2, petal x2 , brainstorm, dark ritual, empty the warrens (at this moment i look at my sharpshooter behind my mox and blame myself :). couln't topdeck a grindstone and i lose.

Game 2: I board in trinispheres, explosives, and sulfurs (in case i can play him along painter and kill all tokens).

i play mountain ssg painter go, he plays ponder go, and i play trinisphere of a second mountain and a second ssg. on his turn he made mana, mana, ssg, burning wish for shattering spree but he didint have the 3 mana to play it next turn, nor do i to play blasts on his lands. he finds his 3rd land before me and blows out painter and trini. at this point i left him with 5 life due to painter attack, city of brass damage and spirit tokens of forbidden orchard he gave me. i had an explosives for 0 also. on his turn he made petal, ritual, rite, LED, infernal tutot for ill-gotten gains, cast it , ritual, led, tutor for tendrils, tendrils for 20 . :(

Round 4 vs. Jordi playing GW Berserk Stompy. 2-1

Game 1 i win the die roll and lead of mountain go, he plays hierarch of a forest so EOT i try to bolt him and he invigorates in response, so now i realize he's playing some kind of berserk deck. i drop a grindstone a collar and a recruiter to search for painter and stall the game agaianst his troll ascetic and slippery boggle and another hierarch. i manage to resolve painter with mana to grind him but he casted swords on him. that gave me the option to play magus, and leave him with only one green mana and one white mana, beacuse hierarch was gone with sharpshooter. i trade the equipped sharpshooter with bogle briar-shielded and recruiter with troll. on my turn i swing for 4 with figure and gain 4 life, on his turn he tries to win via invigorate berserk, but he had to give me the 3 life cause he hadn't two green mana to play invigoarte + berserk on the same turn. magus was crucial. he concedes after that cause figure was an 8/8 monster flier with deathtouch and lifelink.

Game 2: i made a misteke here stacking my top 3 cards with top so when i try to resolve a second turn moon i draw my city of taritos of the top instead of ssg. that leaves me with no option to do it until turn 3 so he can plays troll and then qasali pridemage, i don't recall exactly but i lost soon after of a big kavu i think.

game 3: 1st turn magus of a chrome mox and a tomb. second turn painter and grindstone. 3 turn win. he only had fetches in hand.

Round 5 vs. Oloff playing UR Faestill 1-2

Game 1: these games were so long and involving a lot of tricks with flashing faeries and such that i don't recall everything in a correct way. At this moment i didnt take more notes, i was starting to be tired. 1st game i was able to fight against counters and manlands and at one moment i can resolve painter stone activation in the same turn.

Game 2: plays fetch go i think, i play mountain go. he fecthes volcanic, plays mutavalt, cloud of faeries and jitte. now my magus is going to be killed if i play him turn 2. i cant recover when he landed stanstill and then when i try to resolve painter he spellstuttered him.

Game 3: i try to kill his lavamancer and sepellstutter eqquipped with jitte, but blue blasts and red blasts from his own side counters my spells and destoy my painter. im unable to win and he played very very well.

Round 6 vs. Sabrina playing The Rock (with Elspeths) 2-0

Game 1: won the die roll 1st turn magus for the win.

game 2: she mulligans and fetch bayou to duress me from a GW fetch and take grindstone. i then topdeck blood moon and play it via mox tomb and she only plays a senseis wich gaves her no basic lands.

At this moment i was 4-2-0, i needed to win my 3 remaining rounds to make day 2.

Round 7 vs. Jaime playing Merfolk.

Game 1: he starts with vial i think, i don't see a lot of blasts and he manage to get two islands to play around magus. i only find a way to blast an anormous trasher and die next turn...

game 2: play mountain go he plays island go. i play magus he plays mutavault standstill ???. i win after he breaks his own standstill due to this mistake.

Game 3: we fight back and forth a long time. at one moment he had cursecatcher and silvergill in play and try to resolve standstill. i flashed in sulfur elemental in response and let it resolve. on my turn i topped to search for a blast (nothing here) and played painter's servant from ancient tomb (had two ssg in hand). he draws 3 and plays daze, i remove one ssg. he is touching another island so im happy that im gonna pay the second daze and resolve painter naming white killing his board and swinging for the win. unfortunately it was force of will what he draws from his standstill and i die shortly after.

So, that was it, 4-3 and drop. this was my second tournament with the deck and i like it very much, i dont know if splashing blue would be an option to make explsoives worthwhile and trinket mage. ill edit this post after with some conclusions.

EDIT:
- I didn't cast jaya all day, nor searched for her. I don't know if I'm going to reduce it as a 1 of
- I wish i could had played explosives for 2 a lot of times but i was unable to mox a figure or any card with painter in play to do so. that's why i'm thinking about splashing. blue is an option as I said before giving us trinket mages for sure, and maybe blue blasts and fire/ices?. the other option is to splash white to play tutors...I dont know if the manabase will support it along with magus. I love the way magus wins games alone, but if we splash we weken our moon strategy or weaken our deck when being unable to cast the non red spells...
- Would it be a crazy idea to make this deck a WR tempo deck??
i would share a crazy list i made before going to the gp in order you can blame me for imagining those things.... :)

// Lands
4 [R] Plateau
1 [ZEN] Plains (4)
2 [ZEN] Mountain (2)
3 [TE] Wasteland
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Creatures
3 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer

// Spells
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [RAV] Lightning Helix
3 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
3 [IA] Pyroblast
3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast
3 [TE] Grindstone
1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar

well, imperial players, that's all for today.

thanks for reading.

Thorin

cwt1220
03-01-2010, 09:02 PM
I know I have said this in about every single post, but I love to play the aggro builds, with a combo "killswitch." When I saw the printings of basilisk collar and stoneforge mystic, I began tweaking a R/W list. The following is a preliminary list in which I am pretty happy with.

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Jaya Ballard
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Painter's Servant
3 Figure of Destiny

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Basilisk Collar
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Grindstone
3 Chrome mox

4 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Arid Mesa

I cut the numbers of servants, grindstones and blasts to make room for Mystics and the equipment. Questions and comments are much appreciated.

-Chris- *

Fatestitcher
03-02-2010, 12:13 AM
I don't want to be the bringer of more bad news but with 10/10 Gaea's Blessing Mythics running around the meta, and now a 12/12 Mythic Feldon's Cane has just been spoiled from Eldrazi, do you guys feel threatened about this possible meta shift?

From my point of view, a previously 2-card combo deck may have just been possibly demoted to a 3-card combo deck given that players tend to incorporate these unintentional hosers into the current tier decks.

cwt1220
03-02-2010, 01:31 AM
There shouldn't be much worry about "blessing" type cards, because of cards we play like Relic and Macabre. If you mill your opponent and they have Progenitus, it just goes to the top of their library, and they draw it next turn and proceed to lose the following turn. All in all, triggers go on the stack, then graveyards gets RFG'd.:tongue:

-Chris-

Fatestitcher
03-02-2010, 10:24 AM
Exactly my point. Against a fast aggro deck, a single Progenitus main can act as a time walk for them against mill and they can still possibly win the turn they draw Progenitus.

Against Dream Halls which run a full set of Progenitus, if they are able to Show and Tell one and 3 copies remain in the library, that's usually game over for you.

Has anyone felt the need to dedicate 4 sb slots for GY removal (LotV or Ravenous trap) and replace Crypt, Relic or Faerie yet? The Faerie is tutorable but I find it weak for this purpose.

ryO!
03-02-2010, 10:36 AM
Exactly my point. Against a fast aggro deck, a single Progenitus main can act as a time walk for them against mill and they can still possibly win the turn they draw Progenitus.

Against Dream Halls which run a full set of Progenitus, if they are able to Show and Tell one and 3 copies remain in the library, that's usually game over for you.

Has anyone felt the need to dedicate 4 sb slots for GY removal (LotV or Ravenous trap) and replace Crypt, Relic or Faerie yet? The Faerie is tutorable but I find it weak for this purpose.

Everyone has always played at least 3 of those in SB FMacabre/RTrap/TCrypt/RoProgenitus/LotV, so i don't really get your point.

Moreover, i don't think progenitus is a problem at all, unless you combo on turn 40, the last turn it ll buy them prolly won't change a single thing.
I am really thinking about adding black for Cruel tutor, and about the a more aggro version, i ve always played 3 equipement MD anyway (Jitte/Collar/SolS) and it has proven to be more than useful/efficient.

cwt1220
03-05-2010, 01:42 AM
My R/W list from a few posts back has done exceedingly well in recent testing. Jitte has been great, Collar was always great, and having a creature that can get them turn one is amazing. So far I have blown out Dredge, done fairly against Bant Survival, and not faired well against Aggro-Loam (never did anyway). In theory this list will play better against zoo than the traditional list did, further testing in the coming week will confirm that. Sideboard is still in the works, the only thing I am sure of now is playing Hanna's Custody, which I have always wanted to play.:tongue: I will post more results and analysis in the next few days.

-Chris-

thorin_the_king
03-05-2010, 04:39 AM
don't you miss blasts in the deck? i mean, one of our strenghts it's that we do well against blue based decks. i'm sure you improve the zoo matchup like this, but aren't the others weakened by cutting blasts?

cheers

thorin

EDIT: i realized that you are running path to exile instead of swords to plowshares. if we run magus of the moon, wouldn't stp be better than pte? that will give them life instead of a basic land to come back from our lock.

cwt1220
03-07-2010, 11:22 AM
I don't miss the blasts as much as you would think, because I am not playing the real "combo" as much now. As far as I have tested, my other matches aren't any weaker without the blasts. As I have stated numerous times, I like playing aggro with this deck and my R/W list is the best aggro list I have piloted thus far. At first, PtE was a good idea in my head, because I didn't want my opponent gaining to much life, but StP has better synergy with Magus of the Moon. I am working on a real primer for a R/W list, and I may just start a new thread for it, I will keep everyone updated.

-Chris-

thorin_the_king
03-07-2010, 04:45 PM
I don't miss the blasts as much as you would think, because I am not playing the real "combo" as much now. As far as I have tested, my other matches aren't any weaker without the blasts. As I have stated numerous times, I like playing aggro with this deck and my R/W list is the best aggro list I have piloted thus far. At first, PtE was a good idea in my head, because I didn't want my opponent gaining to much life, but StP has better synergy with Magus of the Moon. I am working on a real primer for a R/W list, and I may just start a new thread for it, I will keep everyone updated.

-Chris-

I will be waiting for it!! It's true that now the deck needs to keep up with an aggro meta, will start playing your list ant tell you how it's doing for me also. But it will be nicely to hear from the creator of this new list his thoughts/matchups/sb plans etc. Recently I started thinking about selling the recruiters to buy some other stuff for another decks, but then I remember how much i had to save for them and that makes me regret it :). Hope we will find a new list that can deal well with this new meta.

cheers.

thorin

Michael Keller
03-08-2010, 10:02 AM
I really think eliminating Blasts from the deck begins to dematerialize and underutilize the power of Painter's Servant. It's important to realize that while you don't want the deck to solely revolve around a single creature, the effect of his presence on the board completely changes the concept of how you proceed in the game. I'm not saying run eight Blast effects like the original version used to, but consider the potency of what they are capable of accomplishing once Painter resolves.

I am very skeptical about removing those cards from the main build. It would (probably) work, but the deck would resemble more of a R/w Dragon Stompy after the fact. It might be a variation that is effective enough to work.

thorin_the_king
03-08-2010, 10:33 AM
@Hollywood: have you been playing the deck recently? If so, would you share up with us your latest list?

Michael Keller
03-08-2010, 10:39 PM
I still prefer to run the mono-red version with Figure and the general creature assortment that we've been seeing. I've tinkered around with the blue splash and time and time again I just keep wanting to go back to the mono-red version.

The funny thing is that my list hasn't changed all that much in the last year or so since I've put the deck down. I've recently begun testing Jitte and it has been obviously effective. Aside from that, nothing all that new:

[4x] Painter's Servant
[4x] Simian Spirit Guide
[4x] Magus of the Moon
[4x] Imperial Recruiter
[4x] Figure of Destiny
[4x] Red Elemental Blast
[4x] Lightning Bolt
[4x] Grindstone
[3x] Umezawa's Jitte
[3x] Chrome Mox
[2x] Pyroblast
[2x] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

//Land
[10x] Mountain
[4x] Ancient Tomb
[4x] City of Traitors

5doorfury
03-13-2010, 11:46 PM
I'm rather new to this deck and I really like it (as with many of you I assume) yet I feel that there HAS to be a way to advance this deck because of the power of these cards.

I see that a few of you have tried the aggro version of the deck, with ok results; but have any of you tried to go a more combo oriented route?

I am not exactly sure what that would entail... maybe gamble(etc.) or some other way to get through the deck or a way to find grindstone quicker?

cwt1220
03-14-2010, 01:00 PM
Finally got around to making a new list and primer for what I call Imperial Aggro. Check it out.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16859-Imperial-Aggro&p=437571

sroncor1
03-15-2010, 01:39 PM
I know I haven't posted much lately, but this past weekend I got top 8 at a 32 man event, the same one Hollywood got top 4 with his new deck. My list hasn't changed much but I figured I would post it along with some changes I would make as the meta has shifted some in the past few months. Thanks to gamegeek2 and Hollywood in advance.

Dudes
4 Imperial Recruiters
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter's Servent
3 SSG
4 Trinket Mage
3 Figure of Destiny
1 Viashino heretic

Spells
4 REB
2 Pyroblast
3 Grindstone
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chrome Mox
1 SDT
1 EE

Lands
5 Mountains
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Side
2 Pyroblast
4 Chain Lightning
4 Blood Moon
2 EE
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre

I went 4-1-1 in the first six rounds and losing to reanimator in the top eight to two first turn Iona if memory serves me right(I had been up drinking most of the night before so I am a little fuzzy here). My other lose was to a traditional white stacks list. I beat two merfolk decks, mono green chalice, and new horizons. Obviously for the merfolk match up nothing has changed, unless they splash white we have no problem beating them. I was surprised to have beaten mono green chalice as I imagined that to be a bad match up, and while I didn't need it, have the trinket mages along with EE help out there. New horizons was a blow out due to moon effects that destroy the deck, sorry Dave. I wish i had taken some better notes but i was sort of a shit show and very unprepared for the day.

About the deck:
I know people are going in a few different directions now which is great, and I like where your new primer is going Chris, but I think this is close to about as tight and optimal the blue splash can be. I dropped the Jaya Ballard more as an oversight, but it has been a long time since I searched for her and the added lightning bolt was always great game one and easy to board out games two and three if it wasn't needed. Having the ability to hit EE at 1 or 2 or 0 was really helpful on the day. I do feel that if you aren't using SDT in some number you are missing an amazing card. I can't stress enough that the card needs to be played, especially if you have shuffle effects. I am running one extra land in place of a SSG and that was just to make the mana a little smoother and less vulnerable to Wastleland. The heretic could be cut for whatever your meta calls for or a fourth figure to help in the aggro plan. The deck i took to the event was really not prepared for the 3 reanimator and 2 stacks decks there. Along with that and the rise in solitaire decks the sideboard i would run now is as follows:

4 Blood Moon
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Meekstone
1 EE
3 Anarchy
2 Pyroblast

At least now the deck as board answers to the cards that matter in the solitaire and white stacks match up. Hollywood was using the faeries all day and I really think they are the best beat against the faster reanimator decks right now. Willie(Gamegeek2) suggested Meekstone in the blue splash and I have to say that I love the idea as it is useful against a bunch of decks while buying lots of time against reanimator. I'm going to test dropping down the trinket mages main deck to 3 to open up basically 2 flex spots in the deck. I plan on testing things like Goblin Sharpshooter and Basilisk Collar. I would love to hear what everyone thinks. Sorry I can't really give a play by play, but I'll try to come up with a something today after class.

Seth

thorin_the_king
03-15-2010, 02:20 PM
I think both splashes are correct, white giving us a more aggro option with stps and stoneforges, and blue giving us a more combo oriented version with trinket mages.

I do not know if this is an option, but has anyone tested isochron scepter on this deck? we play around ten spells that could be imprinted on it, and i think it could act as a replacement for jaya, wich i find too slow for today's metagame. blasting or bolting every turn can be amazing.

another question for those who play the blue splash it's if it's worth playing fire/ice over bolt. if our 1st turn option is a moon efect (which is nearly always the best play), i founded myself with my trinket mages in my hand until i had a chrome mox to give me blue (removing another trinket or any other card with painter in play) when i tested the blue splash. playing F/I would be another out to have acces to blue mana.

by the way, congrats for your finish sroncor! hope you can share your thoughts abut this last point with us.

cheers,

Thorin

ryO!
03-15-2010, 05:51 PM
Here are some SB questions :

Pyrostatic pillar : just a thought but against enchanteress/ant/some other MU i guess/ would it be a good option? or does trini remain strictly better ? or anything else ?

Goblin Welder : I really like having 1 to cope with all the artifacts/creatures hate and also in some cases with the opponent own artifacts

Rolling Equake : In order to deal with tokens or clean the board againt aggressive aggro decks anyone tested it?

Moon effects : i currently play 2 Blood Moon SB (+4 MotM MD), and often side them in but i feel like more would be too much. But, as i see some of you playing 4 of them SB, i d like to know if, even after siding 4 more effect in, those doesn't end up as dead cards to often.

Sharpshooter+collar : damn i ve found it so damn slooooow ... yet the collar is highly efficient.

grave hate : currently playing 2 macabre / 2 Rprogenitus so i can have both an answer to iona before it got caster and a final answer to dredge/loam etc but i feel like 4 is sometime not even enough ... any thoughts ?

Needle : use..ful? or ...less? i am not sure, it helps but ... i am not so sure it's really mandatory.

Ee or Pkeg : As i find Pkeg too slow, Ee seems, playing mono red and even with painter+figures (to get 2 colors), more or less only usefull to remove 0CC to 1CC only when 2CC is the one that you really want to get rid of most of the time.

thanks for your help!

sroncor1
03-15-2010, 09:07 PM
@ Thorin: Yes sometimes the Trinket Mages are a dead draw but to be honest, if you have someone locked out you are already winning so it is sort of a moot point. Against most decks Magus and other moon effects either destroy them and the virtual card advantage is huge and you can absorb the dead draw and against those that can handle them, the Trinket Mage just serves as more CA for you. I have considered going down to 3 but only so a Jaya could be main deck. Otherwise I really like having them in there and I can't think of a time when my moon effects caused me to lose with a Trinket in hand. I don't think Fire/Ice has a place in the deck. Lightning Bolt would have to go and that doesn't seem like a good trade. Yes it serves as a better imprint target, but otherwise it fails at what you need from your burn. It is a 1 drop which is huge and can stop fast Bobs and various mana creatures. That only one casting cost is huge against Bant decks and the like in stopping them fast and early on thir mana fixing. Also Fire?Ice is all but dead against zoo, except for the builds running Steppe Lynz, but even there you are still losing tempo. I did test it and other than being a perfect imprint target, it was unimpressive. Magma Jet could possibly fill the role, but that is due to the scry ability. I know Drew has had success with the card but I have not in my testing. I hope that helps. Sceptor I think falls into the grouping of too cool things. It is 2 cards and 4 mana just to off a dude or counter your first spell. I could see it working in a long game possibly, but as I mentioned earlier the cards you would want to imprint on it just can't wait that ong to be cast, and they are so good because they generate tempo for us. Imprinting on sceptor does neither of these. If you test it I would love to see your results, but my gut tells me it will not help our bad match ups and then it just seems win more.

@Ryo!: I don't think Relic is good graveyard hate right now especially vs reanimator. Good players can play around the graveyard hate that they know is there, not to mention it does nothing vs a first turn on the play Iona. The Macabre does and this is important. Reanimator will have to adapt once the meta learns how to effectively handle it. Until that time the Macabre is just stronger due to the fact that they can go all in now without fear. Relic is probably stronger vs goyf, but I have always found him to be a big dumb creature, and we can get bigger, smarter creatures with activated Figures. Pillar is a nice idea, but I haven't tested it. I will, but I think Hollywood's old tech of anarchy is surprising effective even without Painter as it kills the shit we want gone and actually causes us problems. Like against Solitaire I don't give a fuck how many cards they draw and useless enchantments they play as long as my Grindstone can target them. anarchy lets us do that. Same with stacks along with giving us back what was stolen with O ring. But I will try the Pillar as I think it may have merit. I hope this answers some of your questions. I sort of feel the same about Goblin Sharpshooter, but I wanted to try it before I dismissed it. I would recommend 8 moon effects though. In the games you want them, you really can't get enough and you want them early, playing 8 is the only way to ensure this. Welder was a card I used before the splash and it might be worth looking into again, but it does make the deck more combo heavy but trading shit in and out to get back EE seems sweet.

Pastorofmuppets
03-17-2010, 02:08 PM
http://www.magiccards.info/an/en/50.html
What are your thoughts on this card? It might be a clincher vs. Merfolk pre-Painter, or everything post-painter.

ryO!
03-18-2010, 06:32 AM
http://www.magiccards.info/an/en/50.html
What are your thoughts on this card? It might be a clincher vs. Merfolk pre-Painter, or everything post-painter.

merfolk mu is already fine i think, so it would be nothing but an overkill. Else in other MU, that would be just one more dead card w/o painter in play. So i am not sure it s that relvant.

Vesper Ghoul
03-19-2010, 11:01 AM
I didn't see anybody post the video links from the 5k Feature match. I am watching it now, it is such a bummer you guys got the feature match when you played each other. Does anyone have a video of anyone playing a non mirror match? This is just one of those decks where you can't really get a chance to see someone else play it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szT8niUN8-M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5O_rjwd0kY

Vesper Ghoul
03-19-2010, 11:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwYOcCajpS0 Erik Mynatt Doing Good Decks Live

sroncor1
03-20-2010, 07:18 PM
I have to agree that while it would be totally awesome to cast magnetic Mountain, we already crush Merfolk so there really isn't room or a point. I've been working on a mini primer for the blue version along with some match up notes and sideboarding ideas that i want to post in the next couple days as I'm finally on spring break from Med School. I guess if people are interested, I will post it as soon as I get done.

This is an open question, who here is going to the Gp, and if so can we start talking about the tweaks they are planning for the event.

Vesper Ghoul
03-20-2010, 10:42 PM
I am 100% in for Columbus Legacy the non Flash Hulk version. Although I am not 100% sure I am playing Imperial Painter. I plan on making my decision after playing @ the Star City Philadelphia Open 5k. I am leaning towards playing it but if I fail miserably @ Philly then its on to Supreme Blue or Geddon Staxx.