[TOURNAMENT] August 24 @ The Batcave (Underground Seas & Goyfs!)

[Volt]

At last, here are the details of the Summer's End tournament at the Batcave!

Where:
The Batcave
6403 E Mill Plain Blvd
Vancouver, WA 98661

When:
August 24, 2008
The first round will begin at 1:00pm sharp. Show up early to register.

Entry Fee: $20

Format: Legacy. No proxies allowed. ~5 modified swiss rounds, followed by single-elim top 8.

Guaranteed Prizes:
1st Place: Choose 4x Underground Sea (Revised) -or- 4x Tarmogoyf
2nd Place: Whichever one 1st doesn't take
3rd Place: Moat (Italian)
4th Place: Moat (Italian)
5th - 8th: TBA

Head Judge: Mike Van de Water (level 2)

Sanctioning: This will be a sanctioned event. Deck lists required.

Contacts:
Mike: (360) 694-4947
Chris: (503) 449-2955

[frogboy]

the chances that I'll go to this are significantly higher than for the past few tournaments.

(this puts the odds of my appearance at probably about two in five)

[danyul]

Holy Jesus. It's fuckin game time. We need to hit up that pizza place again like after the DLD.

[DeathwingZERO]

In. 4 SHO.

[Bardo]

Prizes look sweet. I'll try harder to make this one. :)

[Volt]

.

[xsockmonkeyx]

You're getting rid of your Moats? What's the deal with that?

[Pinder]

I'm there.

But you already knew that.

[HammafistRoob]

I will be there.

[AngryTroll]

I'm in.

No more of this "Man, I am so in...jk guys" from half the West Coast Crew!

Roob...really?

[Rood]

I will be there.(In Roob-fashioned hammafist spirit)

Fixed.

[Volt]

.

[frogboy]

I'm going to the beach instead, which is unfortunate because I was actually sort of excited about the deck I wanted to play not feeling extremely clunky.

[DeathwingZERO]

I'm going to the beach instead, which is unfortunate because I was actually sort of excited about the deck I wanted to play not feeling extremely clunky.

You suck. And so does Zilla. And sometimes Bardo. Totally not reppin your colors.

[Pinder]

It has twice as much floor space!

Yay!


I'm going to be at the beach instead like the bitch I am

Boooooooo!

[Volt]

.

[Giles]

I'm there.

But you already knew that.

[DeathwingZERO]

So who wants to guess how many decks are going to be packing maindeck and sideboard Ichorid hate, after ALL FOUR put themselves in the top 8 last month?

That's right, combo > format.

[Jak]

Vacation :(. Like seriously, I suck.

[Volt]

.

[Nucklehead]

well I dont think I will be able to attend this one (this is Quinn BTW). Because my work Big Als is hosting the Vancouver games on the 23rd and the 24th. So Pretty slim chance, slimmer than me, that Ill make this. even though I would love to try and win some goyfs rather than purchase them. But If I can I will totally be there.

Also volt didnt we discuss a prize breakdown similar to this while I was smashing your face at the last tournament.

[tatt2dfreak]

So who wants to guess how many decks are going to be packing maindeck and sideboard Ichorid hate, after ALL FOUR put themselves in the top 8 last month?


Hate ain't even the word... LMAO!!!...


Nope this time, I'm just gonna pay Mike my Money and watch every one else have fun... I really seem to suck at this magic game... But I like most of the people that play it...

[DeathwingZERO]

Hate ain't even the word... LMAO!!!...


Nope this time, I'm just gonna pay Mike my Money and watch every one else have fun... I really seem to suck at this magic game... But I like most of the people that play it...

Should at the very least play, even if it's giving someone else the win. Could always start looking into why you are packing it in to too many decks, maybe jot down some notes each game with significant plays. That's the only way I got better with and redeveloped Ichorid to my style.

[Giles]

There is about a 31.89318% chance I am playing Ichorid again. But we shall see.

[DeathwingZERO]

I keep trying to figure out if it's worth it to play Ichorid myself. I mean, it stomps so many decks, but the hate against it is so damn easy to pack for pretty much every deck.

I have a number of different options to go with, but I'm not going to spill any decks I might play. Don't want people thinking they're going to get any secrets out of me.

[Nucklehead]

I keep trying to figure out if it's worth it to play Ichorid myself. I mean, it stomps so many decks, but the hate against it is so damn easy to pack for pretty much every deck.

I have a number of different options to go with, but I'm not going to spill any decks I might play. Don't want people thinking they're going to get any secrets out of me.


well if you think about it if you play it right and know how to play around hate, ichorid could still be a good choice. Ichorid is kinda like how ravager was, it just sometimes gets those draws where it just wins regardless.

Know would I play ichorid again if I was going to this? the answer would be most likely. Because its not just that its the only deck I have for legacy (because I can build another deck whenever) but its the only deck that I am interested in. No other deck can play out like ichorid. Look at it this way a normal game of magic is; i have lands to play spells and cards which you are able to play responses to, the game will last often past turn 3. Well you watch how ichorid plays and it says, "Your gonna play my game where your gonna sit there and get to play 2 spells while I play all of my deck for free and win the game.


people that lose to ichorid=:mad:
people that win with ichorid=:tongue:

[tatt2dfreak]

Magic is a game for 2 or more players. Masturbation on the other Hand only takes one and is best left behind closed doors...

[Jello]

So, i would like to attend, but lack in the ride depo. anybody going from Snohomish county?

[DeathwingZERO]

Magic is a game for 2 or more players. Masturbation on the other Hand only takes one and is best left behind closed doors...

Hey, I play decks that are interactive. It just so happens most of the interaction is what my cards do with each other. The opponent is just a nice spectator.

And I even WANTED our matchup to be interactive. The fact you had to mull to 4 just sucked. I honestly thought if you had a 7 card hand that second game would have gone much better for you.

[tatt2dfreak]

Hey, I play decks that are interactive. It just so happens most of the interaction is what my cards do with each other. The opponent is just a nice spectator.



but like I was saying Magic is not a spectator game... it's a game for 2 or more people to play... Not one playing with himself and the other watching... that's all...

[DeathwingZERO]

but like I was saying Magic is not a spectator game... it's a game for 2 or more people to play... Not one playing with himself and the other watching... that's all...

Well, I might not be bringing Ichorid this next time around. I'm pretty sure the last tournament having all 4 of them top 8 tipped off people that they weren't quite ready for it. I'm thinking enough people are planning to see it this time around, and I'm highly doubting it's going to be nearly as easy as the last tournament was.

With that said, I'm still not sure the deck I'm considering is all that "interactive". If you like your manabase getting shut down and sitting under various lock conditions, then it might be more interactive than Ichorid, at least.

[frogboy]

I'm going to the beach instead, which is unfortunate because I was actually sort of excited about the deck I wanted to play not feeling extremely clunky.

These plans fell through. I might just come to Portland a couple days earlier than I had planned, but all of my Extended rares are with a friend of mine, so unless I can get ahold of him I'll need to borrow either a) an entire deck or b) enough random stuff to scrounge up a deck with what I have left.*

*basically all non dual non FOW cards

[danyul]

There is about a 31.89318% chance I am playing Ichorid again. But we shall see.

Lemme hitch a ride with you guys again. Are Craig and Phil going too? I can bribe you guys with pizza and beer.

[Pinder]

Lemme hitch a ride with you guys again. Are Craig and Phil going too? I can bribe you guys with pizza and beer.

Giles keeps insisting that the train is more economical, but I'm not quote sure it's as convenient as taking a car. Either way, Volt and AngryTroll suggested that we go down Saturday afternoon, hang out, and then crash at Volt's place until the tourney on Sunday.

Sound good?

[frogboy]

Pinder: I'm still looking for a way to get down there. I was planning on Greyhounding it, but if you have an empty seat I'll take it.

[danyul]

Giles keeps insisting that the train is more economical, but I'm not quote sure it's as convenient as taking a car. Either way, Volt and AngryTroll suggested that we go down Saturday afternoon, hang out, and then crash at Volt's place until the tourney on Sunday.

Sound good?

I am down, sir. I'll call you guys later and see about details.

[DeathwingZERO]

Gas is down to lower $3.70's in the area now, how much is it up there for you guys? I'm not sure if the train is going to be much cheaper at this point, and doesn't allow for much driving around while you're here.

[Pinder]

Gas is down to lower $3.70's in the area now, how much is it up there for you guys? I'm not sure if the train is going to be much cheaper at this point, and doesn't allow for much driving around while you're here.

Yeah, I can fill up my tank for a little over $40 now, and split 4 or 5 ways, that's way cheaper than a ticket. I'm 90% sure we're driving down.

[AngryTroll]

Driving down on Saturday.

That should be awesome. It'd be worth it.

[tatt2dfreak]

we really need to get an EDH game going this time... either before , after or during the tournament... I just love EDH...

[frogboy]

shotgun winning.

[Pinder]

shotgun winning.

Aw, shit guys....he did call it.

[Bardo]

Okay, feel free to piss in my gas tank or something, but I'm going to bail on this. I'll be in Vancouver visiting my mom tomorrow (sorta off Mill Plane), but won't be able to carve out ~ 7 or so hours out of my day to play MtG. I planned to go and have a deck freshly sleeved, but I'm not going to make this one.

Here's what I sleeved up.

"4c Vorosh"
by Bardo

4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Counterbalance

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Crime & Punishment
1 Vedalken Shackles

4 Tarmogoyf

4 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
2 Island

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Hydroblast
3 Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip

Good luck to all going.

[xsockmonkeyx]

http://www.chocablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/flake%20wrapped.jpg

[Bardo]

http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/fuck-you-002.jpg

[DeathwingZERO]

Who said you needed 7 hours? 0-2-beer only takes about 2 1/2 hours.

[Pinder]

Alright, top 8.

Chris (Volt) vs. Some Dude
Max (frogboy) vs. Some other Dude.
Andy (Giles) vs. Ryan (DeathWingZERO)
Gordy (Tosh) vs. Some other other Dude

Volt is playing UWb Countersliver with Standstill and Mutavault.
Tosh is playing It's Not Quite the Fear (a.k.a. Not Quite It's the Fear).
frogboy is playing Aggro Loam
DeathWingZERO is playing Goblins
Giles is plaing Vile Horror (apparently Despotic Scepter is the tits against Ichorid).

\edit - Me vs. alcoholism (I think I'm losing).

[FoolofaTook]

Me thinks maybe people are getting bored with Thresh and Landstill?

[Pinder]

Me thinks maybe people are getting bored with Thresh and Landstill?

I piloted 4c list (almost a carbon copy of the list Bardo posted a few posts up when he ducked out) of Landstill, as did Bret. He went 0-2-Beer and I went 0-2-1-Liquor.

And Thresh never wins over here. I don't know what it is about our meta, but no one ever gets there with Thresh anymore.

Aggro Loam is the bee's knees here, though. Hot damn.

edit - Top 4!

Volt vs. Some other dude (whose name is, I just found out, Matt)
Tosh vs. DeathWingZERO

Matt is playing Burn.

[J.V.]

How many players in the tourny Pinder?

[tatt2dfreak]

YEA, i had a family gathering in lincoln city... won 300 buck at spirit mountian, so i don't ply magic and lose.... i won 300 playing a slot machine... woot!

[Pinder]

How many players in the tourny Pinder?

There were 25 people. Not enough for DTB :frown:.

Finals is Burn vs. NQINQTF (Not Quite It's Not Quite The Fear)

Some dude named Matt vs. Tosh.

edit - Matt takes Game 1

edit 2 - Tosh takes game 2!

[Pinder]

Burn Wins the Tournament

In other news, whhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

[Bardo]

I piloted 4c list (almost a carbon copy of the list Bardo posted a few posts up when he ducked out) of Landstill, as did Bret. He went 0-2-Beer and I went 0-2-1-Liquor.

Shit. :(

Where exactly did the wheels fall off?

[DeathwingZERO]

I knew burn had a savage matchup against his deck, I never once saw Chalice or anything that was really savage against him other than REBs.

Had I been smarter in game 2 with sideboarding expecting Plague, and game 3 actually ripping the Goyfs, I may have been able to pull off a Goblins vs Burn matchup.

I think I might have been able to win that race.

[Deep6er]

What in the hell is Not Quite It's the Fear? Also, adding Not Quite to a deck name is really fucking stupid. I hated Ian for doing it, and now I hate you.

Seriously though, what is it?

[Volt]

.

[frogboy]

I played Aggro Loam. It was the best deck in the room, not close, and I'm still bitter that instead of one of the seven awesome matchups I had in the top eight, I got smashed in the quarters by burn.

(note: I was a bit short to my opponent in the quarters, and could be charitably described as an asshole for complimenting him on his deck instead of running the gg etc. I'd like to go ahead and apologize to Matt for that, because it's not really his fault that his deck hates me.)

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Countryside Crusher
3 Terravore

4 Thoughtseize

4 Burning Wish
3 Life from the Loam
2 Seismic Assault

3 Devastating Dreams
2 Engineered Explosives

4 Mox Diamond
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
3 Badlands
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold

SB:

4 Leyline of the Void
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Raven's Crime
1 Shattering Spree
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Random Green Sorcery Costing 3G That Kills Enchantments But Has An Alternate Casting Cost Of Letting Your Opponent Gain Life

I'd maindeck a Raven's Crime, probably over the second Mountain. Volt thinks Chalice is better than Thoughtseize because of burn and combo matchups and the fact that your island matchups are fine. I think Thoughtseize is key in the islands matchups and it was in fact MVP on the day, but I never actually tested that. Thoughtseize feels right, but Volt is a pretty powerful mage and makes reasonable arguments, so YMMV.

Round one I played Pinder playing Landstill.

Game one:: I have the option between cycling Thicket and playing Cave or vice versa. I decide that, despite having Taiga and Mox, that more green mana could be important, so Thicket down, cycle cave, draw Assault, curse inwardly. I end up throwing random animals at him until he's out of permission, then play Assault and murder him.*

In game two, I walk him into a similar situation with Assault, except this time he Hydroblasts it. Didn't see that one coming. He starts attacking me with a Tarmogoyf, but I'm able to stabilize with a Terravore. I miss the onboard kill of Grip your Top, Dreams your board, kill you, but get him a few turns later the hard way. Magic is ez!

Round two: Daniel, Landstill

Game one: He plays a Counterbalance on turn two. I have a Mox and use Loam to test his Counterbalance before playing an EE for two. He Deeds for zero to get my EE. The same thing happens next turn. Fortunately, he never draws a top, so we end up playing a forty minute game wherein I'm working him with Wastelands, Loam, Volrath's Stronghold, Terravore, and cycling lands, but I keep Loaming and he keeps showing twos and threes, so it takes a while before I can put it away.

Game two is a draw on time.

Round three: Michael, Humility Control

Game one: I open on fetch, Mox, Loam, and then Waste his Sea on turn two, his Scrubland on turn three. He says go on turn four with no board and concedes soon after.

Game two: I start with similar Loam/Wasteland shenanigans, but he has a Crypt. This is fine, because I have two Loams and two Wastes, so I just bin one set and wait for him to Crypt me. Then he Thoughtseizes me, grabs the second Loam, and mauls my yard. Then he plays Academy Ruins. Hm. A couple of turns later, he plays Standstill. Instead of breaking it, I draw go for a while, making drops and sculpting my hand for some sort of blowout involving Seismic Assault. After about thirty turns, I break Standstill with Thoughtseize, which he counters, then another Seize (also countered) a couple Crushers, which are countered or Plowed or something, and then an Assault, which sticks. Neat! Loam, Wasteland your Academy Ruins, go. He puts Crypt on top and tries to get my Loam. I cycle, Dredge in response, and kill him next turn.

Quarters: Matt, burn

Game one: I have only three mana sources and have to run out a Goyf instead of waiting to play Goyf + Dreams. He burns a Crusher, and I'm forced to Dreams for two to leave me on one land, no cards, and him on no land, some cards. He immediately draws a Mountain and kills me a couple turns later.

Game two: I double mulligan and don't really have anything. I Wish for Raven's Crime and cast it a couple times in between a Goyf and a Crusher. I get him hellbent, but I'm at six and he has Fanatic in play to my Goyf. He draws and passes. I can Crime him or play Terravore. I play Terravore to be able to kill him next turn. He draws Lava Spike, plays it, and Fireblasts me out.

:<

Deck is unreal good. You have to be thinking two turns ahead or so, but oh man, so many awesome matchups.

*it's so cute when you're setting this up and your opponent actually thinks he's winning, and then you cut his legs off in one swipe.

edit: bardo: you're a woman.

[CoryWM]

I played Aggro Loam. It was the best deck in the room, not close, and I'm still bitter that instead of one of the seven awesome matchups I had in the top eight, I got smashed in the quarters by burn.

(note: I was a bit short to my opponent in the quarters, and could be charitably described as an asshole for complimenting him on his deck instead of running the gg etc. I'd like to go ahead and apologize to Matt for that, because it's not really his fault that his deck hates me.)

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Countryside Crusher
3 Terravore

4 Thoughtseize

4 Burning Wish
3 Life from the Loam
2 Seismic Assault

3 Devastating Dreams
2 Engineered Explosives

4 Mox Diamond
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
3 Badlands
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold

SB:

4 Leyline of the Void
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Raven's Crime
1 Shattering Spree
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Random Green Sorcery Costing 3G That Kills Enchantments But Has An Alternate Casting Cost Of Letting Your Opponent Gain Life

I'd maindeck a Raven's Crime, probably over the second Mountain. Volt thinks Chalice is better than Thoughtseize because of burn and combo matchups and the fact that your island matchups are fine. I think Thoughtseize is key in the islands matchups and it was in fact MVP on the day, but I never actually tested that. Thoughtseize feels right, but Volt is a pretty powerful mage and makes reasonable arguments, so YMMV.

Round one I played Pinder playing Landstill.

Game one:: I have the option between cycling Thicket and playing Cave or vice versa. I decide that, despite having Taiga and Mox, that more green mana could be important, so Thicket down, cycle cave, draw Assault, curse inwardly. I end up throwing random animals at him until he's out of permission, then play Assault and murder him.*

In game two, I walk him into a similar situation with Assault, except this time he Hydroblasts it. Didn't see that one coming. He starts attacking me with a Tarmogoyf, but I'm able to stabilize with a Terravore. I miss the onboard kill of Grip your Top, Dreams your board, kill you, but get him a few turns later the hard way. Magic is ez!

Round two: Daniel, Landstill

Game one: He plays a Counterbalance on turn two. I have a Mox and use Loam to test his Counterbalance before playing an EE for two. He Deeds for zero to get my EE. The same thing happens next turn. Fortunately, he never draws a top, so we end up playing a forty minute game wherein I'm working him with Wastelands, Loam, Volrath's Stronghold, Terravore, and cycling lands, but I keep Loaming and he keeps showing twos and threes, so it takes a while before I can put it away.

Game two is a draw on time.

Round three: Michael, Humility Control

Game one: I open on fetch, Mox, Loam, and then Waste his Sea on turn two, his Scrubland on turn three. He says go on turn four with no board and concedes soon after.

Game two: I start with similar Loam/Wasteland shenanigans, but he has a Crypt. This is fine, because I have two Loams and two Wastes, so I just bin one set and wait for him to Crypt me. Then he Thoughtseizes me, grabs the second Loam, and mauls my yard. Then he plays Academy Ruins. Hm. A couple of turns later, he plays Standstill. Instead of breaking it, I draw go for a while, making drops and sculpting my hand for some sort of blowout involving Seismic Assault. After about thirty turns, I break Standstill with Thoughtseize, which he counters, then another Seize (also countered) a couple Crushers, which are countered or Plowed or something, and then an Assault, which sticks. Neat! Next turn I Wish for Loam and kill him.

Quarters: Matt, burn

Game one: I have only three mana sources and have to run out a Goyf instead of waiting to play Goyf + Dreams. He burns a Crusher, and I'm forced to Dreams for two to leave me on one land, no cards, and him on no land, some cards. He immediately draws a Mountain and kills me a couple turns later.

Game two: I double mulligan and don't really have anything. I Wish for Raven's Crime and cast it a couple times in between a Goyf and a Crusher. I get him hellbent, but I'm at six and he has Fanatic in play to my Goyf. He draws and passes. I can Crime him or play Terravore. I play Terravore to be able to kill him. He draws Lava Spike, plays it, and Fireblasts me out.

:<

Deck is unreal good. You have to be thinking two turns ahead or so, but oh man, so many awesome matchups.

*it's so cute when you're setting this up and your opponent actually thinks he's winning, and then you cut his legs off in one swipe.

edit: bardo: you're a woman.

I play 4 maindeck chalice of the void, and thoutseize in the board. Against blue decks. I bring in both. While you set chalice to 1. It seems counterproductive. It ups your threat density. If you resolve chalice of the void for 1, you've won the game already. If you don't you still have a high threat density. Same goes for the combo match.

PS. Goyf is terrible in this deck. There is never a time where it is good. You can always be doing something better. Also if you don't run chalice of the void, you have to run gamble main deck. Test it, and see it's amazingness. You can never lose to an agro deck. or control deck. However your combo matchup is horrid still. Gamble for dreams vs agro, and gamble with burning wish for loam will beat control.

[DeathwingZERO]

Did someone just chime in saying Goyf is terrible in Aggro Loam? The card that on turn 1 cast of a Mox is already a 1/2 (enough to block Goblins) and within 2-3 turns is easily a 4/5 or a 5/6? And cut them for GAMBLE, of all things?

Please, suggestions would be good for the actual thread for the deck. But I'm going to almost guarantee you that nobody in that thread will agree Goyf is bad in a deck packing lands, sorceries, artifacts, enchantments, and creatures. If the 3 slots were metagame dependent, it'd also be instants (Terminates).

Ya, me thinks 1G for a consistent 4/5 swinging turn 3 is terrible.

[CoryWM]

Did someone just chime in saying Goyf is terrible in Aggro Loam? The card that on turn 1 cast of a Mox is already a 1/2 (enough to block Goblins) and within 2-3 turns is easily a 4/5 or a 5/6? And cut them for GAMBLE, of all things?

Please, suggestions would be good for the actual thread for the deck. But I'm going to almost guarantee you that nobody in that thread will agree Goyf is bad in a deck packing lands, sorceries, artifacts, enchantments, and creatures. If the 3 slots were metagame dependent, it'd also be instants (Terminates).

Ya, me thinks 1G for a consistent 4/5 swinging turn 3 is terrible.

You either A. havent played the deck extensively, or B are giving a canned reponse for goyf. I know, green in deck = goyf. A deck without green = add green for goyf.

I just wanted to point out some simple excerpts from the tournament report from this very thread.

"so we end up playing a forty minute game wherein I'm working him with Wastelands, Loam, Volrath's Stronghold, Terravore, and cycling lands"

"Game two: I start with similar Loam/Wasteland shenanigans"

"Game one: I have only three mana sources and have to run out a Goyf instead of waiting to play Goyf+ Dreams" -Notice the words have to.

"he has Fanatic in play to my Goyf"

"*it's so cute when you're setting this up and your opponent actually thinks he's winning, and then you cut his legs off in one swipe." - Hmm I'm pretty sure they see goyf coming.. must be the Tog like inevitability from terravore/crusher they don't see.........

Thats just one account of a aggro-loam tournament report. Sure goyf can win games. That doesnt mean, it is the correct card in the slot. You can put Goyf in Belcher... doesnt mean, it's better than another peice of the puzzle.

Very rarely does he swing for more than 2 before turn 3/4 in this deck. The only way to fuel your said 4/5 goyf, on turn 3, is via life from the loam, dredging. And of which after dreding you'd have to hit your non land cards, of which you run roughly 33. Also, dropping a first turn goyf, means your opponent isnt gonna bolster up his graveyard for you either. So first turn goyf **IN THIS DECK** is not that great of a play.You are severly limited in the way you can actually grow a goyf without the help of an opponent.You'd be better off comboing out, via life from the loam, card engine/ 1 terravore or crusher anyways.

Also in aggro-loam, any other first turn play with mox diamond is better. Diamond, fetch, loam is stronger than first turn goyf. Goyf isnt always a 4/5. Even burning wish for the missing loam or devestating dreams is better. If you run chalice, clearly its a better first turn play as well.

Gamble is terrible, that's probably why every 43 land deck plays it. Oh thats right the sister deck to aggo-loam. Gamble engine opens you up to running, 1 maze of ith, 1 tabernacle, 1 glacial chasm. But who would wonna improve their matchups vs ichorid, goblins, stiflenaught, random agro anyway, am i right?

From an outsiders view, i'm sure goyf is attractive in the deck. But with many tournament games under your belt. You realize that the deck actually plays out like old tog did. You quickly build up to an inevitable win. A sole Crusher or Terravore wins the game. Sure they might remove the first, maybe even the second. But you on average, draw 3 cards a turn. And have the combination to wipe their board easily.

The deck used to be aggro-loam, it is now more control loam. Cards like life from the loam, burning wish, terminate, chalice, devistating dreams, engineered explosives etc. Are not accustomed to aggro decks.

70% of my tournament games revolve around me controling their lands, via wasetland or D Dreams. Once you've finished your job there, you play a crusher or vore, and the game ends. Goyf is a speed bump. It simply slows the real plan down by a turn.

[Giles]

Dear Info Ninjas.

Vile Horror made Top 8. You will never hear the end of this.

Love,
Giles

[DeathwingZERO]

Very rarely does he swing for more than 2 before turn 3/4 in this deck. The only way to fuel your said 4/5 goyf, on turn 3, is via life from the loam, dredging. And of which after dreding you'd have to hit your non land cards, of which you run roughly 33.

I VERY much disagree. Most opponents will be playing a first turn drop, and a good number of them with the exception of Goblins are going to be playing an instant or sorcery. That alone makes him a 2/3 before you get your second turn. Not that I'm saying a turn 1 Goyf is always the best play, but a number of games it's going to be a huge wall the opponent has to deal with fast.


Also, dropping a first turn goyf, means your opponent isnt gonna bolster up his graveyard for you either. So first turn goyf **IN THIS DECK** is not that great of a play.You are severly limited in the way you can actually grow a goyf without the help of an opponent.You'd be better off comboing out, via life from the loam, card engine/ 1 terravore or crusher anyways.

So rather than playing Goyf in turn 1 or 2, you're saying to wait on Terravore (which is TERRIBLE early game, hence people running 3 copies to see it mid-late game), or a Crusher that's a 3/3 static until you get the Loam engine going? Seems like a really bad tempo loss to me, as Goyf passively grows both from your own plays as well as your opponents. They are not going to just stop playing spells because a Goyf is on the table. Most decks in fact would play MORE to try to find an answer, knowing you'll grow it in a turn or two anyway.


Also in aggro-loam, any other first turn play with mox diamond is better. Diamond, fetch, loam is stronger than first turn goyf. Goyf isnt always a 4/5. Even burning wish for the missing loam or devestating dreams is better. If you run chalice, clearly its a better first turn play as well.

IF Chalice was in the version I'd play, yes I'd argue it's better. But it's not. So moot point. And realistically, if I had Loam in hand, I would ABSOLUTELY cast Goyf on my first turn and fuel with Loam, not the other way around. Getting a fetch back and blindly dredging vs getting a creature out that will SWING after said dredging a turn later is a huge tempo loss, and generally one that might make a huge difference. Personally, I'd slap someone that decided to do turn 1 Loam for a single fetchland over a 1/2 Goyf that will almost guaranteed to be bigger by turn 3 thanks to that second turn Loam.


Gamble is terrible, that's probably why every 43 land deck plays it. Oh thats right the sister deck to aggo-loam. Gamble engine opens you up to running, 1 maze of ith, 1 tabernacle, 1 glacial chasm. But who would wonna improve their matchups vs ichorid, goblins, stiflenaught, random agro anyway, am i right?

43 Lands is NOT Aggro Loam. I'm going to go ahead and lay that out right now. The decks play completely different. Loam wants to put out creatures and make them huge. Lands wants to dump EVERYTHING and get it all back into play immediately, controlling the board. Both play very different roles, and abuse Loam in VERY different manners. Anyone putting these two in a comparison based on the fact they both run Loam is just naive.


From an outsiders view, i'm sure Goyf is attractive in the deck. But with many tournament games under your belt. You realize that the deck actually plays out like old tog did. You quickly build up to an inevitable win. A sole Crusher or Terravore wins the game. Sure they might remove the first, maybe even the second. But you on average, draw 3 cards a turn. And have the combination to wipe their board easily.

Seeing that I played Standard Tog, Extended Tog, Legacy Hulk and Vintage Hulk, I see nothing similar between the two decks. Aggro Loam is 50% threats, 50% mana. Tog had 3 finishers (Tog's), of which usually 1 went the distance, via Upheaval or Berserk. This deck recurs threats as well as playing multiple winning outlets, something Tog never could do. Again, no real grounds to link these two decks, as they play radically different and achieve much different goals. Just because they both love their graveyards doesn't make them similar. Tog can't swing for the win half the time if a Leyline is out against them. Aggro Loam could really care less, as their creatures are generally big from ALL graveyards, and Assault can still ping.


The deck used to be aggro-loam, it is now more control loam. Cards like life from the loam, burning wish, terminate, chalice, devistating dreams, thoughtseize, engineered explosives etc. Are not accustomed to aggro decks.

Goblins would like to have a word with you, sir. The deck plays control elements, but it will almost never play the control role. Don't mix up having utility for having board control. That will likely get you killed. The purpose of all of those cards is to either 1) push damage through via it's creatures, or 2) recurring Loam engine -> Assault. Both of those are very much an aggro approach, hence keeping the name.


70% of my tournament games revolve around me controling their lands, via wasetland or D Dreams. Once you've finished your job there, you play a crusher or vore, and the game ends. Goyf is a speed bump. It simply slows the real plan down by a turn.

While Goyf is never consistent, it's hardly a speed bump. It's a tempo advantage, and an incredible blocker so your Crusher and Vore can come in and wreck the game. Never have I played a Goyf in a tournament or in testing where I honestly thought it was a terrible card. More threats more consistently = more wins.

Also, what is this "real plan" you speak of? Terravore AND Crusher hardly seal the game by themselves early on, and a Loam "engine" by itself does nothing more than masturbating your deck away into the graveyard. That's the role Goyf fills. You won't normally even consider playing Vore or Crusher until you've got either a Loam engine running, or time to get Crusher to activate itself once or twice to get itself rolling, or DD in hand to do it yourself. Goyf gets in the way of none of these plans, and in fact actually provides a very solid clock on it's own.

I will flat out tell you I think Goyf is probably one of the dumbest cards in print, and am very much against throwing it into any deck packing green. However, when I see a deck that runs a graveyard based engine, plays MANY copies of multiple card types, and can easily abuse a creature that varies in p/t based on how much gets thrown into the yard, I'm going to say it's an auto include of a 4 of. And from the multitude of pages in the DTB forum as well as multiple victories in tournaments solely on the fact that Goyf puts out a huge leap early on, I'm pretty certain I'm not alone, or in the wrong.

Again, I'm not really in the mood to continue this in a thread that doesn't need it. You can take your argument to the proper DTB thread for Aggro Loam, but I'd like to remind you again that you'll probably get very few positive responses.

[Tosh]

What in the hell is Not Quite It's the Fear? Also, adding Not Quite to a deck name is really fucking stupid. I hated Ian for doing it, and now I hate you.

Seriously though, what is it?

Also, I named it Not Quite It's the Fear as a joke because I'm runnning/not running everything that you told me to/not to in the thread so I figured since it's not "your list" that I should call it something else. I originally called it Intuition Control, but everyone seemed to call it that so I went with it. (Also, "I Can't Believe It's Not the Fear" was mentioned too)

I'll probably post a more detailed report, seeing how I took 2nd (I'm pretty sure I can thank frogboy's kindness in letting me draw into top8 instead of making me play it out for that). Here's the list:



// Lands
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
1 [TE] Wasteland
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Island
2 [A] Underground Sea
2 [B] Tundra
3 [U] Tropical Island
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
2 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [JU] Wonder
1 [ON] Gigapede
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw

// Spells
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [TE] Intuition
3 [7E] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
3 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [LRW] Shriekmaw

Matchups:

Round1: Goblins (1-0 | 2-1)
Round2: Scepter-Chant (2-0 | 4-2) *Maverick676
Round3: Survival (3-0 | 6-2) *AngryTroll
Round4: Counter-Slivers (3-1 | 6-4) *Volt [Stupid, getting paired down]
Round5: Max = ID (3-1-1 | 6-4-1)
Top8: Goblins (4-1-1 | 8-5-1)
Top4: Goblins (5-1-1 | 10-6-1)
Top2: Burn (5-2-1 | 11-8-1)

[Deep6er]

Even though there are so many things I disagree with in that list, if you did well with it, I guess it worked out well for you.

I will point out that in my testing (of the cards that I hate), it turned out very poorly (for the cards that I hate). But, congratulations on making second place.

[Pinder]

Also, "I Can't Believe It's Not the Fear" was mentioned too


This. I'm totally calling Tosh's build this from now on.

And Bardo, I don't think Bret was playing your list specifically, just 4c Landstill. Maybe he'll post his. As far as the list I played, it was exactly the same as yours earlier except I have 2 Shackles instead of 1 Shackles 1 C//P, and the sideboard was different because I didn't have some of the cards you listed there (I had 2 Offalsnout, 2 Extirpate, 4 Hydroblast, 1 Deed, 3 Grip, 3 Crypt).

The main thing that hindered me was that roughly 90% of my Tops in the mid to late game showed me land, land, brick (like Brainstorm or Top or something) or land, land, Fetchland. I don't know if it was just my bad luck or if the deck runs too many, but it seemed like I had a lot of trouble drawing into business (or countering anything with Counterbalance). Looking at the list, 24 land seems fine, but I saw land all fucking day.

Also, a RGB Aggro deck Extirpated my Trops in G2 of round 3. I'm not sure 1 Breeding Pool is the best route, but finding some way for that not to cut you off of Goyf and Deed (arguably the two best cards, and the ones I needed most in that matchup) would be pretty good. I'm pretty sure I would have been able to take that round (that's the one we drew, and I won the first game) if I'd been able to cast Deed. Oh well, c'est la vie.

I think my worst play mistake was playing frogboy round 1, though. We'd tested Aggro-Loam vs. my list in like 6 games the night before, so it wasn't too hard for him to outplay me (not that it was a terribly favorable matchup to begin with). Those were probably the fairest games I had all day though, in terms of how much gas I drew. But losing threw me into the 0-1 random shit bracket, and that was no good.

[Volt]

.

[AngryTroll]

I told Pinder, in person, the night before the tournament



Less losing with BardoStill, more winning with It's The Fear. Thanks, David.

Unfortunately, he played Bardostill and went 0-2-1 liquor, and I Can't Believe It's Not The Fear won Second.

[Volt]

.

[Deep6er]

You know, I thought Pinder was smart. Apparently not. Sucks to be the not smart guy.

I totally gave you a fucking message from across the goddamn CONTINENT Pinder. What the hell man? What the hell.

Seriously though, I'll give it to you again. One more chance.

Less losing with Voroshstill, more winning with It's the Fear. Get on that.

[frogboy]

Re: Goyf: The card is very good for the curve, because it's kind of awkward to do nothing the first few turns against an aggro deck, and it lets you curve the control decks out. It's the worst card in the deck going long (which isn't to say it isn't bad or that your opponents don't have to deal with it) but I'd rather play it on turn one or two than any other card, because now your opponent has this gigantic idiot to deal with while you're Wishing or Loaming or doing something similarly unfair.

Also, the Goyf, Dreams your board, go, play costing four is really important compared to doing that with a three drop.


"Game one: I have only three mana sources and have to run out a Goyf instead of waiting to play Goyf+ Dreams" -Notice the words have to.

Well, yeah; in order to not die I had to run out a Goyf as a 2/3 that he just Incinerated as opposed to going Goyf, Dreams, leaving me with a 5/6 and a Mox and him with nothing.

And that long ass game involved a Tarmogoyf staring at a couple Mishra's Factories and a Runed Halo on Goyf causing the drawgo standoff.

[Volt]

.

[DeathwingZERO]

Apparently it was a bad matchup for everyone in the room.

I still wanted to go up against it. Based on Don's remarks about him throwing damage at his creatures rather than his dome, I think he would have done the same to Goblins.

Anybody know if he had Flamebreak or Pyroclasm in the deck?

[Volt]

.

[Giles]

Just think... What if you had been running Brainstorm?

If Sage was brainstorm.... I think I would have not made it in the top 8. Since in round 2 it preform as it should carrying a Jitte and killing stuff. When the person across the table swords my Horrors like no other.
Also in round 3 it brought my opponent down to 1 (from 10) and made it imposable to cast spells.
AND during round 4: Sage -> Despotic Scepter is gave me leverage in game against dredge game 2. (In game one a pair of Drakes stole all the bridges that he saw)
And do not let me forget... that my top 8 match was against goblins. Although I never saw a sage, it is the best play against a turn one Lackey.

To any one who cares: I ran the same list as the DLD in July. With a re-tooled sideboard.

[Volt]

.

[Giles]

I guarantee you that there are at least 4 cards in that deck that are worse than Brainstorm.

Like.....

Edit: Deck List

Lands:
4- Underground Sea
1- Scrubland
1- Badland
4- Polluted Delta
3- Bloodstained Mire
1- Volrath Stronghold
1- Academy Ruins
3- Swamp
1- Island

Creatures:
4- Hunted Horror
4- Gilded Drake
3- Dimir Infiltratior
4- Dark Confidant
1- Epochrasite
4- Sage of Epityr

Spells:
1- Umezawa's Jitte
4- AEther Vial
3- Despotic Scepter
2- Tel-Jilad Stylus
3- Engineered Explosives
3- Smother
3- Repeal
2- Sensei's Divining Top

SB:
4- Stifle
3- Red Elemental Blast
4- Cabal Therapy
2- Tormod's Crpyt
1- Offalsnout
1- Leyline of the Void

Edit Edit: I would like to remind everyone that diversification is the only free lunch.

[Volt]

.

[emidln]

I guarantee you that there are at least 4 cards in that deck that are worse than Brainstorm.

I argued this point with Isamaru for an eternity. I don't think others agree with our compulsion to play 4 Brainstorm in decks that could potentially play with cards that produce blue mana.

[Volt]

.

[AngryTroll]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention:

Way to go everyone, losing to Burn. Seriously. I was that guy's only loss all day. His list was....interesting. And his choices were even more so.

I played him round two. Game one, he did two to himself with Barbarian Rings, and did 20something to me. Game two, he kept a seven card hand containing: 1 Tormod's Crypt, 2 Pithing Needles, 2 Magma Jets, 1 Fireblast, and 1 Chain Lightning/Bolt/Rift Bolt/you get the idea. Even when he did draw a land, I just didn't play the Survival in my hand and beat him with Goyfs. And can I mention how bad Crypt is against Goyfs when he had his own Sorceries, Instants, and lands in the yard? Umm...My Goyf actually gets bigger? Sure, you sure nailed my Genesis!

Game three, he burned a Bird, Goyf, and QRanger. I beat him with Squee and Anger for a while while he continued to not throw burn at my face, made him discard some more burn, and eventually Wished for Primal Command. I got lucky with a Therapy; he had three or four land in play, one card in hand, and I was at 5. I Therapied him, and for some unknown reason, he did not Fireblast me. I got lucky and nailed the Blast, knowing that any two burn spells killed me, but that Blast and Fanatic also killed me. Apparently he already had some blasts in his yard that I had made him pitch, but whatever.

He argued that Magma Jet was one of the weakest cards in his deck. I disagree.

His list included, but may have been slightly different from,

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Shard Volley
4 Magma Jet
4 Incinerate
3-4 Price of Progress
3-4 Fireblast

Mountains, Fetches, and 3 or 4 Barbarian Rings

[Giles]

I know that brainstorm is a great card. However when one goes -4 and +4 Brainstrom, diution of cards just to run it is not that great.

[frogboy]

Actually given that you only have the one Jitte, I'd cut the Sages for Brainstorms unless they are blocking Lackey with astonishing regularity, which I kinda doubt is the case.

[DeathwingZERO]

Against me they only served the purpose of looking at the topdeck, I swung into them with Lackey because I had another in hand in one of the games, and the other it didn't come down fast enough. I'd almost say they would be easily replaced by Brainstorm.

[parkman47]

Ok, I decided to register because I found this site yesterday and all the wonderful stuff being said. So let's go ahead and clear some things up:

Catch 42

8 Mountain (3 form "Sparky")
4 Barbarian Ring
3 Wooded Foothill
3 Bloodstained Mire
-18 Land

4 Mogg Fanatic
-4 Creatures

4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
1 Flame Jab
1 Flame Rift
4 Incinerate
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
4 Shard Volley
-38 Other Spells

SB: 4 Needle, 3 Blast, 3 Anarchy, 3 Shattering Spree, 2 Crypt

The deck is name is given because it has 42 burn spells, 42 is the answer to everything as you all know. The catch part refers to catch 22 being that the deck can't answer to itself, it will almost always lose in a mirror match (to traditional builds). I tested this deck and it did extensively well against a lot of other decks, losing mostly to first turn comboing that only a force could stop. The flame jab was added on Sunday JUST to deal with dark confidant (on a reoccurring basis) and other creatures that had one toughness. the only time it ever saw any action was getting discard to ravens crime. more on that later.

The average CARD does around 2 damage (do the math, it's quite fun)

To address several issues with my pairings:

First match, against green/red/black stuff... I played against a regular at the cave, a cool guy, named Steve. I wasn't too sure what was up with his deck as it didn't seem to play out as I expected (thought it was more like Frogboy's). I swept him, easily, just never seemed to stop drawing burn. Btw: thoughtseize is a shock for me :)

Match against Green-Fit:
I honestly wasn't prepared to see a deck like this and didn't quite know what to expect or how to deal with it until AFTER the match. Yea, it caught me off guard... I sided in crypt to deal with squee, now I see that I really didn't need to. In game 3, I didn't know how bad some cards were going to be against me so I was worried about getting them off the board. I shouldnt have kept my 2nd round hand but it was so good that drawing a mountain turn 1 (what generally happens) would have won the game. It just didnt, and I went to game 3 not too worried (Keep in mind, I didnt play sunday to win-out the whole thing, though I figured I'd top 8). game 3 was dumb, i kept drawing my sideboard tech against him that did me no good basically. had i just been drawing more burn, id have won, even if i was burning way too many of his creatures... I didn't fireblast in response to his therapy because I really DIDN'T think he was going to name fireblast. I had two in the graveyard already. I thought he'd name something sorcery. I shard volleyed in response, instead, keeping two land back, because if i drew incinerate or magma jet and oculdnt play it, id be fucked. I had to be ready to draw a 2 mana burn spell. Don names fucking fireblast and said he hadnt seen one all game. I point to the two in the graveyard. So IN MY OPINION, a BAD CALL on his part got lucky. nuff said.

Round 3: Can't think of the name of the deck, but another one of my regular crew that I usually play with. It was red with city of traitors and such... its goal was to drop cheap fats and fuck your shit up... his magus doesnt hurt me since im red already and he knew going into it that i would beat him no matter what... he drops chalice and i play around it for the win first game and second game side in spree to take care of them even though it never comes up.

Round 4: Don't know who I played. he should have known what i had, everyone knew what i had... he said he "forgot." he had peat bogs. he wanted to make black mana for some reason. i never saw what for... hah... game 2 he dropped 2 chalices, one for 1 and a 2nd for 2... i took them both out with a spree and went to town with a burn spree...

Round 5: Drake... didn't happen, we drew...

Top 8: against aggroloam... he wrecked one of my sleeves by mashing my deck together which put me in a mood to be a dick about some things, though i bit my tongue (I appreciate your apology on the board, by the way, though in person would have been nice). game 2 or 3 (i cant remember how far we took it) was him dropping ravens crime turn 1. i had my ONE flame jab in my hand, which i discarded to the crime since thats what it was best for. he arched his eyebrow. I would have told him it was just ONE for similar reasons to him running raven's crime but I figured him thinking I was a noob with 4 was a better idea. I never did retrace it, but I could have had I topdecked a land and used it for an extra point at the end when he had terravore on the board. his creatures were scary and hard to deal with.

Top 4: I got major-lucky drawing two needles against counter sliver, however I was also holding pyroblast, which would have also stopped the daze (I would have waited until turn two) making me even luckier in some regards, but I wasn't blindly playing a needle like a noob (this happened against INQTF later but he didn't have a counter so it didn't matter anyhow). For the record, I did initially feel bad about my draw coming out REALLY well and chris did play against me really well, taking a point to save his slivers when he could. The reason I burned out every sliver he had was that i knew he ran a finite number of slivers and those were his win condition. Shutting down his slivers meant I had as long as I wanted to draw burn. In game two I searched for over 3 land and had 2 rings out which meant I had around half my land already out and so my chances of drawing more burn were always high.

against Tosh: this was the matchup i was more afraid of than anything else. he played it incredibly well and was honestly the most polite player i dealt with out of this boards crew... i only state that because i think magic is a game where sportsmanship is incredibly important and i feel a lot of people were upset with for my choice to make burn the way i did. i put just as much thought into my deck (especially sideboard decisions) and tested it probably just as much as anybody else. also my deck wasnt netdecked, it was all me. This match is mostly a blur now.


against the goblins deck i never played: i would have probably raced you and taken out key-goblins depending on the board. you getting more cards doesn't help me and getting them into play doesnt help me, but forcing you to blow stuff up does... its a match that's 50-50... i didnt have any board against you but if i ever play burn again, anarchies are going out (though they are my only way to pop counter sliver) and some wonderful anti-goblin stuff is going in.



OVERALL: magma jet isn't the weak link, but it's one of the three weakest cards (shard volley and incinerate are weaker). Rarely does Jet TRULY stack my deck in a better way than it already is. Almost every card is R:3 Damage... Shard volley, while sucking the most, is actually the card that brings this deck to a playable level... pre-morningtide this deck wouldnt be possible. Mogg fanatic in almost every game he hit the board did more damage than any other card I played making him truly the best R drop ever... The only improvements a deck like this can see are strictly metagame related. As a whole, it fairs well against the general populace.



Btw: I am not playing burn at the next big tourney, but I will be blowing your minds with my secret tech

[DeathwingZERO]

Matt (I believe? I'm terrible with names) your 4th round matchup was against August (Setnakt on here, though he never posts), playing Mono Black Stax. Burn is easily his worst matchup, as Chalice almost always has to be backed up by Nether Void to keep you from gassing out on him. Suffice it to say nobody was expecting a dedicated burn deck to show up.

I agree with the matchup for Goblins being about 50/50, but the topdeck factor of things like Ringleader might actually sway it to more like 60/40, seeing as you have no board sweepers or draw. My buddy always has the deck built, so I'd actually be interested in playing a few games casually anyways, as the only burn decks I've run across were usually prepared with very little testing in mind. My favorite was still my Ankh-Sligh build I had built a few times over. In retrospect, I believe that deck would have crushed alongside your burn deck, so many nonbasics and fetchlands, damage would have been ridiculous.

[frogboy]

This is why people shouldn't be assholes in a public forum!

I had to Wish up the Raven's Crime, and getting Jab with it was kind of demoralizing because it meant your hand was probably pretty good and now I didn't even have "he draws lots of lands" as an out.


Don names fucking fireblast and said he hadnt seen one all game. I point to the two in the graveyard. So IN MY OPINION, a BAD CALL on his part got lucky.

FWIW, I was sitting next to you in this game and had the read after you tanked and cast Volley. You'd have played a sorcery on your turn, and nothing else would've involved thought. (well, maybe another Volley)

Sorry about your sleeves. I couldn't really think of anything to say that wouldn't make me sound like a dick, but I probably should've said something. I don't think you played particularly well, but you're a nice guy. Grats. (edit: that's not an insult. I think of like three people across Oregon and Washington as good at Magic, and I'm not one of them.)

PS:
however I was also holding pyroblast, which would have also stopped the daze (I would have waited until turn two)

:B Pyroblast is the new Spell Snare! (wuvu Pinder)

[Volt]

.

[parkman47]

This is why people shouldn't be assholes in a public forum!

I had to Wish up the Raven's Crime, and getting Jab with it was kind of demoralizing because it meant your hand was probably pretty good and now I didn't even have "he draws lots of lands" as an out.



FWIW, I was sitting next to you in this game and had the read after you tanked and cast Volley. You'd have played a sorcery on your turn, and nothing else would've involved thought. (well, maybe another Volley)

Sorry about your sleeves. I couldn't really think of anything to say that wouldn't make me sound like a dick, but I probably should've said something. I don't think you played particularly well, but you're a nice guy. Grats. (edit: that's not an insult. I think of like three people across Oregon and Washington as good at Magic, and I'm not one of them.)

PS:

:B Pyroblast is the new Spell Snare! (wuvu Pinder)

I figured you took the flame jab as me having 4 and being noob-o-rific... glad you don't think that was the case.

and as far as blast, i could have had jet (much more likely, which i was praying to draw), lightning bolt, incinerate, or anything else, when i vollied in response, i think that fireblast was the last thing he'd think i had... i don't know... i played TERRIBLY bad that round and i know that. it cost me a win, and I learned quite a bit from it.

I don't play truly well, some games I feel i play better than anyone else might have played in those shoes, other games I know i made mistakes. i'm not claiming to be a great player by winning this tourney, though i do know i sit above the average mark (which still isnt great) with my abilities. nobody under average really invests in tourneys like that, at least from my experience. FNM is where you see the under-curve people... it just depends on my mindset. i dont think anyone that 8'd seemed particularly great, but nobody seemed lower than slightly above average. i do still shake my head at playing gilded drake.


I'm glad you found the site, Matt. Congrats again on winning the tournament.

Just to clear a couple things up... Boarding out burn spells against me to bring in Pithing Needles is definitely a mistake. You were pretty randomly lucky that they happened to matter in game 2 (where I mulliganed into a 1-land hand with 2 Aether Vials). They normally wouldn't matter nearly as much as simply throwing another burn spell at my head. That may just sound like grousing on my part, but it's actually true. Btw, Pyroblasting my Daze would have been a pretty poor play. Think about that for a second. :wink:

About your deck... I agree that Shard Volley and Incinerate (among the 4-ofs, anyway) were the worst cards in your deck. Between all those Shard Volleys and Fireblasts, you must have had at least a couple of games where you got stuck with uncastable cards in your hand. If you didn't, you were truly charmed on that day.

there were several times when id have to hold a blast or a volley in case my opp was going to counter leaving me land screwed, thats why people would ride at low life totals for quite some time with me.

as far as playing against you, yes i'm lucky the vials mattered in game two, however i can't quite remember what i boarded out against you, and when i said daze earlier, i meant like force of will, im aware i could have paid to save against daze, i was in a hurry when i wrote that before leaving for work this afternoon. but pyroblast was a good card to be holding whenever i had something that mattered.

the needle, to me, is something i feel worth running main deck in place of the volleys. it almost always shuts down something, volley sideboard in over the needles if it really doesnt, but so many games needle just shuts stuff down... i could have named mutivault, which was the plan for the second needle if the first wasnt destroyed. shutting down vault kills 4 of your slivers and from what i could tell, including vault, you had 16, though i might have been wrong (and i dont think i read a decklist on here for your deck), and i knew i had enough burn to cut each of your slivers, because vial+crystal+hibernating=goodgame easily, i cant anarchy, i cant do anything, i just cry. like i said, i was serious when i said you had me sweating fucking balls, because if you dropped both of them when i didnt have the burn, i was fucked.


Matt (I believe? I'm terrible with names) your 4th round matchup was against August (Setnakt on here, though he never posts), playing Mono Black Stax. Burn is easily his worst matchup, as Chalice almost always has to be backed up by Nether Void to keep you from gassing out on him. Suffice it to say nobody was expecting a dedicated burn deck to show up.

I agree with the matchup for Goblins being about 50/50, but the topdeck factor of things like Ringleader might actually sway it to more like 60/40, seeing as you have no board sweepers or draw. My buddy always has the deck built, so I'd actually be interested in playing a few games casually anyways, as the only burn decks I've run across were usually prepared with very little testing in mind. My favorite was still my Ankh-Sligh build I had built a few times over. In retrospect, I believe that deck would have crushed alongside your burn deck, so many nonbasics and fetchlands, damage would have been ridiculous.

you definitely have to have someone run it just like mine, because it really sits differently than any other burn deck or variation i tested. especially since i found myself holding burn spells instead of always playing them to the dome, which i think actually helped.

[parkman47]

This is why people shouldn't be assholes in a public forum!


wait, i hope you're not saying i was being an asshole, because that wasn't my intention

[frogboy]

i could have had jet (much more likely, which i was praying to draw), lightning bolt, incinerate, or anything else, when i vollied in response

You would've played those.

edit:
wait, i hope you're not saying i was being an asshole, because that wasn't my intention

No, I meant other people bagging on you. People just haaaaaaaaaate it when they get burnt out of a tournament, and NW folks tend to vent.

[parkman47]

You would've played those.

edit:

No, I meant other people bagging on you. People just haaaaaaaaaate it when they get burnt out of a tournament, and NW folks tend to vent.


wow yea, i guess you're right... i would have played them! ha! i should have... but i couldnt blast, i had to volley, cause magmajet/price/incinerate would have been me drawing dead...

ohwell, like i said, next time i wont be playing burn... super secret ninja tech designed to rock your faces... btw: i dont netdeck ever, with the exception of ub madness back in early 03

[Pinder]

PS:

:B Pyroblast is the new Spell Snare! (wuvu Pinder)

I was tired alright? At least, that's what I'll continue claiming. I had that game in the bag anyway :P.

And what the hell does wuvu mean/stand for?

[Deep6er]

(love you).

It's like baby talk. I wuv u.

[Pinder]

Oh. I kept reading it as 'woovoo', which made absolutely no fucking sense.

[frogboy]

but i couldnt blast, i had to volley, cause magmajet/price/incinerate would have been me drawing dead...

right, that's why it was fairly obvious you had fireblast in your hand, or another shard volley.

[DeathwingZERO]

I was tired alright? At least, that's what I'll continue claiming. I had that game in the bag anyway :P.

And what the hell does wuvu mean/stand for?

Back when it happened, it could have been seen as an insult that you were so fucking far ahead that you could get away with Spell Snaring my Daze. But I personally took it as a sign that you really didn't feel like accepting the Daze, instead you retaliated against it's uselessness. For that I applauded you, albeit in my head.

Other players would probably also take the time to spite you with the fact that you kept them out of contention with that match, yet have proceeded to scrub out while they have hit top 8's back to back. But not me. Because I'm a better man, and you showed me the greatness of 99 Bananas. I can't spite a man for giving me such great drinking tech such as that.

[AngryTroll]

Yeah, Matt, congratulations on the finish. I know I really hate losing to burn, although I know the matchup is terrible for me.

I did not realize that there were two Fireblasts in your yard when I Therapied, but you did fondle your lands and think before only casting one of your two cards in hand. After not burning me on your turn, and then not casting the spells in response, in addition to fondling your lands, I guessed Fireblast.

Burn turned out to be a great choice. No one was ready for it, and it certainly paid off for you.

[Nucklehead]

Matt parker is 100% fortified and rich in hawtness

lolz this Quinn Kennedy By the way I was ondering when the next tournament is gonna happen so I know if I can come honestly the sooner I find out the better

[parkman47]

Matt parker is 100% fortified and rich in hawtness

lolz this Quinn Kennedy By the way I was ondering when the next tournament is gonna happen so I know if I can come honestly the sooner I find out the better

hah quinn kennedy posting against all odds

the next tourney will be up on the new batcave site that im working on... hint: its got batcave in the url and gaming in the url too

but its not done yet

[Nucklehead]

hah quinn kennedy posting against all odds

the next tourney will be up on the new batcave site that im working on... hint: its got batcave in the url and gaming in the url too

but its not done yet

lol its about time he gets a website