[Deck] The Rude Pact

[jericohs@cottage]

Ok folks,

This has been my pet deck for a while now, testing variations of the deck. Brought it to 4 local 20 person legacy tournaments and posted 4 top 4's and won 2. Here's the list.

Engine
4 early harvest
4 kodama's reach
3 sakura-tribe elder
2 heartbeat of spring

Stall
3 moment's peace
4 eternal witness

Combo
3 rude awakening
1 beacon of creation
1 fire/ice
1 demonfire

Combo enablers
3 summoner's pact
1 timbermare

Draw engine
2 gift's ungiven
4 intuition
2 reiterate

Lands
13 forest
4 wooded foothills
2 island
2 mountains
60

Sideboard
1 dosan, the falling leaf
4 trinisphere
3 defense grid
4 chalice of the void
3 krosan grip


My meta at the moment is nothing but agro and agro-controll. This deck punishes any deck that tries to win from the red zone. It has infinite combo elements and of course it wins on the back of it's forests. Hence, The Rude Pact.dec It also sports the name Rude Pact since the deck generally pisses the shit out of your oppenent's because of the repeated moment's peace activations and basically playing a game of solitare while your opponent mumbles, huffs and puffs. The deck's only weakness is straight out combo or burn to your dome. On the brightside the sideboard completely shuts combo and burn down, making them wish they had as many basics as you.


Win condition #1
----------------
Early harvest on the stack, play reiterate with buyback for infinite blue, red and green mana. Then cast fact or fiction a dozen times and draw your deck. Cast Fire/ice to win instant speed.

This combo element is featured in richard feldman's and zac hill's pet deck: Heart Attack. Although, this combo is generally slow (turn 5) since you need Early harvest on the stack and an extra seven mana to go infinite. Regardless, its devastating...this is a quick win at instant speed. Call this your threshold win. If your opponent is dumb enough to let you get to 10 mana, he deserves to lose this way.

Win Condition #2
-------------------
Your red zone kill. Beacon them for 10 token's and swing. Or, cast summoner's pact for timbermare. The come into play from timbermare taps every creature. Play rude awakening with the entwine and swing for leathal 20 plus dmg.

You can also cast rude awakening with entwine. Then cast furystoke giant. Then cast Early harvest to finally achieve the kill. TAP your forests and win guys!!!

For controll decks, I use the same principal as above but use Dosan in my chain of spells. Summoner's pact for dosan the falling leaf. Then cast your combo. Dosan is usually the best way to clear the road free of counterspells. If there is a counter in your opponents hand it must counter dosan... kinda creates an orim's chant effect.

For combo decks, I use the 4 x trinispheres. It punishes them and not you. Also, 3 x defense grid and you got 'em cooked.

My intuition piles for the begining of the match are usually something along the lines of 3 moment's peace. 2 moment's peace and 1 eternal witness. Or, 1 moment's peace, 1 fact or fiction or 1 beacon.
My intuition piles at the end of the match are usually (1 beacon, 1 fire/ice or reiterate, 1 rude pact) This is forcing your opponent into choosing the way he/she wish to die, lol.

Cards i have playtested:
Mind's desire: I can usually desire from anywhere between 5 to infinite. However, I found that the card is overkill since if you can cast the mind's desire for a decent storm count your likely already going off and have no need for it.

Lotus bloom: The extra mana is nice on turn 4 but you really want untapped forests... Not a bloom effect that you can't untap with early harvest.

Accumulated Knowledge: Drawing 3 cards at the end of your opp end step is nice (via intuition + AK engine). I even abuse of it with eternal witness. I think it's way too many slots in a deck for it to be worthwhile though. I'm trying to make my deck as flexible as possible since it set's up slowly right. And waisting an extra 3 slots is out of the question.

Cards i need to test:
Merchant scroll: Tutor power at the price of making it slightly slower. Contrary to the norm, I wouldn't run a full playset. I would run perhaps two.
What to remove? Maybe a rude awakening. I'm not sure if i need 3 copies.

Xantid Swarm: I never owned a single one. What a shame. Sideboard material.

New frontiers: I'd rather heartbeat than this card any day of the week. However, i've never playtested.

Summer bloom: same as above

Exploration: hmmm.... if i can shell out 60$ to get a playset i'd have to try it out. Nice first turn anyhow. Make's second turn Kodama's huge.

I will definately REPLACE -4 Sakura Tribe-Elder for +4 Exploration when i can afford it. It generally makes your infinate combo a full turn quicker.



I take full credit for the deck. Minus, some playtest buddies who have inspired me by playing diff decks of this nature such as the stock version of 2006 Heartbeat of Spring.dec and a casual build of rude awakening.


New list
-------

Engine
4 early harvest
4 kodama's reach
3 exploration
2 heartbeat of spring

Stall
3 moment's peace
4 eternal witness

Combo
3 rude awakening
1 beacon of creation
1 fire/ice

Combo enablers
3 summoner's pact
1 fury-stoked giant
1 timbermare

Draw engine
3 fact or fiction
4 intuition
2 reiterate

Lands
13 forest
4 wooded foothills
2 island
2 mountains
60

Sideboard
1 dosan, the falling leaf
4 trinisphere
3 defense grid
4 chalice of the void
3 krosan grip

[Deep6er]

Couple things.

1) Mind's Desire is banned.

2) Beacon will only shuffle into your library if you cast the spell. It's part of the resolution of the spell. Not an alternate text that activates whenever it's put into the graveyard.

3) It seems to me that Threshold will be a really hard time for you because of Counterbalance. You won't be able to resolve Moment's Peace through a Counterbalance, and that kind of destroys your stalling plan. Just having three Krosan Grips in the board is probably not enough.

Additionally, if you encounter a deck packing Counterbalance that curves to three or four, then you're in a great deal of trouble.

Also, Pernicious Deed is a complete wrecking ball here.

If you try to play Rude Awakening, it's an Armageddon.

If you try to play Early Harvest with a Heartbeat in play, it will destroy the Heartbeat.

If you play Beacon of Creation, it will just destroy all the tokens.

Seems like something to keep in mind.

[jericohs@cottage]

Couple things.

1) Mind's Desire is banned.

2) Beacon will only shuffle into your library if you cast the spell. It's part of the resolution of the spell. Not an alternate text that activates whenever it's put into the graveyard.

3) It seems to me that Threshold will be a really hard time for you because of Counterbalance. You won't be able to resolve Moment's Peace through a Counterbalance, and that kind of destroys your stalling plan. Just having three Krosan Grips in the board is probably not enough.

Additionally, if you encounter a deck packing Counterbalance that curves to three or four, then you're in a great deal of trouble.

Also, Pernicious Deed is a complete wrecking ball here.

If you try to play Rude Awakening, it's an Armageddon.

If you try to play Early Harvest with a Heartbeat in play, it will destroy the Heartbeat.

If you play Beacon of Creation, it will just destroy all the tokens.

Seems like something to keep in mind.

1. Mind's Desire is banned in Legacy???

2. My mistake your right. The Beacon is only if its cast.

3. I demolish threshold! And yes, 3 krosan are enough.

4. No deck in the meta uses counterbalance with a curve of four... unless your from kansas... click your heals toto your not in kansas anymore!



Which is maybe a good suggestion though... I wonder if i could fit a counterbalance/top engine in my sideboard?

[Deep6er]

Actually, what I meant about Counterbalance was that it would stop your Moment's Peace's from resolving, which means their Tarmogoyfs will kill you.

Additionally, post-board they're likely to bring in Krosan Grips of their own to deal with Heartbeat so that means they have three drops in their deck for Counterbalance.

And yes, Mind's Desire is banned in Legacy.

[morgan_coke]

how does this deck deal with Early Harvests getting countered? You don't have any countermagic of your own here. Early Harvest decks in Standard and Extended were U/G with basic islands and forests so they would always have counter magic mana to deal with opposing attempts to disrupt them mid-combo. Abeyance, Chant, and any Counterspell all seem to ruin your day. Harvest also only untaps basic lands. Perhaps a more U/G build with Back to Basics maindeck would be more successful for you.

EDIT: also, summoner's pact also only finds green creatures, not red ones like Fury-Stroke Giant. I don't think a singleton Timbermare is worth three tutoring spells to find. You'd be better of in that situation just running four Timbermares.

[Master Shake]

More important than anything that has been said in this thread so far:

Early Harvest only untaps basic lands.

Edit: Morgan beat me to it. But yeah, none of your combos with Harvest Work, so you may want to apologize to people for cheating. I mean, come on; it says it right there on the card.

[freakish777]

EDIT: also, summoner's pact also only finds green creatures, not red ones like Fury-Stroke Giant. I don't think a singleton Timbermare is worth three tutoring spells to find. You'd be better of in that situation just running four Timbermares.

You missed Eternal Witness.

[troopatroop]

3. I demolish threshold!

Be careful with things like this. You don't demolish threshold, in fact, you lose to it reliably. Many of us here would be happy to prove that, on MWS or otherwise.

That being said, Rude awakening is sick.

[jericohs@cottage]

This deck DOES NOT FOLD TO THRESHOLD...
The deck focusses on playing a shit load of spells whether countered or not. If i get countered on heartbeat i simply play summoner's for eternal witness or just play him from my hand get the heartbeat and continue unopposed. I'll keep playing them from my graveyard after they've been countered. Ok, against threshold game one, i'm slightly in a pinch at first but after my sideboard:

Chalice set to two, trinispehere and defense grid --- good luck.

Has anyone looked at the sideboard????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, those two taiga's and that tropical island should be ... basics
I totally forgot about early harvest...one sec i'll fix the mana again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dude, summoner's pact makes the deck very reliable since it fetches my win condition and get my witnesses...In fact the witnesses are the integral part of the deck.

[jericohs@cottage]

More important than anything that has been said in this thread so far:

Early Harvest only untaps basic lands.

Edit: Morgan beat me to it. But yeah, none of your combos with Harvest Work, so you may want to apologize to people for cheating. I mean, come on; it says it right there on the card.

Yeah, my mistake I fixed the manabase accordingly to reflect the early harvest / reiterate kill condition.

Otherwise, everything is good...

[morgan_coke]

I think you really, really need to take a look at the old extended Nevermind decks. You're not using anything that was unavailable to them except for Intuition and Exploration, and in this deck, I'm pretty sure Sakura-Tribe Elder is better than Exploration. Fact or Fiction is worse than Gifts Ungiven here. You're not running any countermagic or Sensei's Divining Top. Your combo is slow and you HAVE NO DISRUPTION OR DEFENSE. What's your goldfish turn, five? six?

I think Nevermind could be a very good deck in Legacy, and you have the basic shell for it with Rude Awakening as a nice alternate win condition, but this version of the deck is still incredibly preliminary.

Things you need to add before it's ready for primetime:

#1 Storm-based win condition (in addition to Rude)
#2 Disruption for the opponent/protection for yourself
#3 Better Draw spells. Ideas Unbound is essentially Ancestrall in this deck and the lack of top with all the shuffle effects is mind boggling. Gifts is SIGNIFICANTLY > FoF in this deck. Deep Analysis also can turn Brain Freeze into a "win this turn" rather than "win next draw phase" spell.
#4 Alternative to/in addition to Early Harvest - I recommend ~2ish+ Turnabout here.
#5 Where is Cunning Wish? This would give you maindeck access to additional win conditions, draw, and protection/defense (Brain Freeze, Stroke of Genius, Abeyance, Meditate, Wipe Away, etc.)

I think this deck has definity potential, but as its currently structured its too vulnerable to counter-magic because of its over-reliance on certain spells and a lack of a way to defend them. It is also too slow to play without some kind of significant defensive strategy. (moment's peace does exactly nothing to burn.dec or anything that kills outside of the combat phase, which is a fair number of decks, I see your sideboard, but that's an awful lot of game ones you're giving away.)

[Isamaru]

#5 Where is Cunning Wish? This would give you maindeck access to additional win conditions, draw, and protection/defense (Brain Freeze, Stroke of Genius, Abeyance, Meditate, Wipe Away, etc.)

If I remember correctly, Nevermind would also Cunning Wish for the Moment's Peace after it was Flashed back, for 4 uses out of 1 Moment's Peace and 1 Cunning Wish.

[Peter_Rotten]

I have just built this deck on MWS and will be looking for anyone to test. Going online now.

Game 1: I just went 0-2 against goblins. His first hand was Lackey, Fanatic, Mountains, and Wastelands.

Game 2: HA! I just beat GBW Aether Vile/No Disruption Slivers 1-0! He made the mistake of given me Fire/Ice when I had Infinite mana!

Anyway ... Fact can GTFO! Replace it with Gifts. Also, let's see if we can get a turn 1 play in here.

[morgan_coke]

Ok, I guess I'm just stupid, but that's the OP and PR who've now mentioned winning with Fire/Ice and infinite mana. I get the strong feeling Peters is sarcasm, but is there some additional line of text on this card that I'm missing that makes having it and more than two mana relevant?

[Peter_Rotten]

No... Reiterate it.

Either blast them away with multiple Fires or draw your deck looking for what you need.

And I just beat 43 Land 1-0.

[morgan_coke]

ok, thanks, i get it now, infinite draw or infinite damage on one card. would invoke the firemind be better here since it can kill with either damage or draw?

for t1 plays search for tomorrow has been used successfully in decks like this. So has force spike. and sensei's top.

[Peter_Rotten]

OK, I revamped the deck a litte bit:

Teh Winz

1 Beacon of Creation
1 Fire/Ice
1 Kaervek's Torch

Teh Combo
4 Early Harvest
3 Heartbeat of Spring
2 Reiterate
3 Rude Awakening

Search and Utility
4 Eternal Witness
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Intuition
3 Moment's Peace
3 Summoner's Pact

Getting Lands
4 Kodama's Reach
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder

Lands
13 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills

And, hell, I'm ready to to ditch Summoner's Pact completely.









Lands: 21, Spells: 32, Crt: 7

[raharu]

@ P_R: Why not run Sylvan Tutor? It's good set-up, just as fast as Pact if you have top in play, and won't loose you the game.

[4eak]

Vexing Shusher has been on my mind today and I wondered if a Vexing Shusher might be worth considering if you actually keep Summoner's Pacts in the deck.

peace,
4eak

[Peter_Rotten]

I just ran into a few games against some decks running Daze, FoW, and CurseCatcher.

Yeah. Go ahead and guess if the


3. I demolish threshold! And yes, 3 krosan are enough.
statement is a bit of an overstatement. I can't imagine what would happen if those decks dropped a CounterBalance on me.

[Jaiminho]

@ P_R: Why not run Sylvan Tutor? It's good set-up, just as fast as Pact if you have top in play, and won't loose you the game.

Why would someone play Sylvan Tutor instead of Worldly Tutor? Anyway, he has no Top to accelerate into the tutored card.

[jericohs@cottage]

ok, thanks, i get it now, infinite draw or infinite damage on one card. would invoke the firemind be better here since it can kill with either damage or draw?

for t1 plays search for tomorrow has been used successfully in decks like this. So has force spike. and sensei's top.

Hey,

Not a bad idea considering the old standard list of hearbeat used to use Invoke the Firemind. However, Fire/Ice is just plain better. Cause it allows you to tap all there blockers/draw cards and swing with rude awakening or beacon. That being said you can also burn out there creatures much like the mephidross/triskelion combo. And of course burn their dome. All this in the confines of one card... IMO it's much better than invoke the firemind.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I like the vexing shusher idea. Where to fit it in?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, has anyone paid attention to the sideboard? It really works well for threshold... or any counter deck.

If this doesn't suit anyone's fancy, does anyone have any ideas on how to better beat the counter match-up?

[jericohs@cottage]

Rude Pact.dec version 3
--------
Teh Winz
1 Beacon of Creation
1 Fire/Ice
1 Kaervek's Torch

Teh Combo
4 Early Harvest
3 Heartbeat of Spring
2 Reiterate
3 Rude Awakening

Search and Utility
4 Eternal Witness
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Intuition
3 Moment's Peace
3 Summoner's Pact

Getting Lands
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow

Lands
13 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain

Teh Sideboard
3 Vexing Susher
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
1 Dosan, The Falling Leaf
3 Krosan Grip

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Peter,

Can you playtest this version out...I removed:

-1 Gift's Ungiven
-4 Wooded Foothills
+1 Forest
+4 Search for Tomorrow

This configuration gives you the opportunity to have a NUT draw of 6 untapped lands in play by turn three...

allowing you to cast the very important kodama's reach and cast intuition at your opponent's end step. Or, some other configuration of two three CC spells.

We don't need the wooded foothills, the deck has plenty of shuffle effects, one less gift's ungiven causes no loss in the tutoring power of the deck. Added another forest for good measure.

Sideboard has what it takes for the counter matchup i believe...

Any comments?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. Is Kaervek's Torch, Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere extended legal? If so, with the bannings in extended this just might break the format, lol Just a thought.

[Zinch]

For the sideboard or even in the main (counters are almost in any deck in legacy) you could try xantid swarm and defense grid... I think both are better than vexing susher in this deck

[jericohs@cottage]

tested against dragon stompy last night for a few matches and i must admit that was sort of a challenge.

I just kept him off of zirilan of the claw and he couldn't fetch his kilnmouth dragon to kill me (he needed to find an alternative to killing me by the red zone). So, he boarded in 4 Kilnmouth Dragons and amplified to fling 9 to my dome... little tricky.

[Anusien]

Is there an advantage to playing this build over the T2 Heartbeat of Spring combo decks? Like sure, get the upgraded card like Fact or Fiction, but why would you want to play the clunky Reiterate win condition rather than just make a ton of mana with Early Harvests and Maga them out, with Rude Awakening as backup/extra untaps?

[Peter_Rotten]

Mind posting a link or list for that deck?

[Lifeless]

Mind posting a link or list for that deck?

There has to be a more definitive list than this (it's a Weird Harvest version from TCG player), but here is one from after Rav rotated in:

4 Carven Caryatid
4 Drift of Phantasms
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Viridian Shaman

3 Early Harvest
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Weird Harvest

15 Forest
5 Island
3 Swamp

I'm going to take a guess and say that this build goldfishes faster, even with all the suboptimal cards. My suggestion would be to find a good medium between the two, specifically trading Weird Harvest out for Pact or Worldly Tutor. I may have missed someone else mentioning it already, but this mana base begs for Back to Basics or Blood Moon *if still running red, doesn't it?

[MTG Guru]

There has to be a more definitive list than this (it's a Weird Harvest version from TCG player), but here is one from after Rav rotated in:

4 Carven Caryatid
4 Drift of Phantasms
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Viridian Shaman

3 Early Harvest
4 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Weird Harvest

15 Forest
5 Island
3 Swamp

I'm going to take a guess and say that this build goldfishes faster, even with all the suboptimal cards. My suggestion would be to find a good medium between the two, specifically trading Weird Harvest out for Pact or Worldly Tutor. I may have missed someone else mentioning it already, but this mana base begs for Back to Basics or Blood Moon *if still running red, doesn't it?

Can you give us a renovated list? I'm pretty much stumped on card choices when it comes to porting it into Legacy. I'm not sure whether to throw in Thoughtseize and Duress or up the blue count and add Force of Will. I'm also not quite sure on the win cons in addition to Maga. I think Maga is good but Meloku seems weak. Any Legacy lists you guys care to add will be appreciated.

[jericohs@cottage]

Rude Pact.dec version 4
--------

Teh Winz
1 Beacon of Creation
or
1 Fire/Ice
or
1 Demonfire
or
3 Rude Awakening
1 Timbermare (conjunction with summoner's pact - play timbermare - then rude with entwine)

Teh Combo
4 Early Harvest
3 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Reiterate

Search and Utility
4 Eternal Witness
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Intuition
3 Moment's Peace
3 Summoner's Pact

Getting Lands
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow

Lands
13 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain

Teh Sideboard
3 Vexing Susher
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
1 Dosan, The Falling Leaf
3 Krosan Grip
------------------------------

I've made some minor adjustments that has had some promissing results.

[Darkenslight]

I'm just wondering if you should up the Island count by 1, and add a singleton Turnabout for the utility.

How would this affect the overall play method? Would this affect the complexity of, say, a Gifts pile for untap effects?

[jericohs@cottage]

Hmmm...

I like the idea of using Turnabout...

But I already have 4 Early Harvest and 3 Rude Awakening

Also, Timbermare fills that role:
- he's tutorable with summoner's pact
- he taps my opp guys
- usually that extra 5 pts coupled with my 9 or so lands is enough for the win (18 + 5 = 23) on turn 5, nut draw of course.

I could go Turnabout for more disruption but again i'd be getting one less forest in the deck. Making Beacon of Creation really weak at this point because i have to get that extra island and two mountains in play for Reiterate.

How do others feel about Turnabout in the deck?

[MTG Guru]

@jericohs - Have you considered running a singleton Viridian Zealot that you can fetch via Summoner's Pact? That way you can get rid of pesky enchantments/artifacts instead accepting a gameloss pre-sideboard.

[Willoe]

I just kept him off of zirilan of the claw and he couldn't fetch his kilnmouth dragon to kill me (he needed to find an alternative to killing me by the red zone). So, he boarded in 4 Kilnmouth Dragons and amplified to fling 9 to my dome... little tricky.

What did you test against again? That wasn't Dragon Stompy as far as I can tell. That was a very shitty dragon deck meant for casual play (Hello Kilnmouth playset in the sideboard), and if this deck has troubles against that types of decks, it's rather slow. Do you have the "Dragon Stompy" list?

[jericohs@cottage]

What did you test against again? That wasn't Dragon Stompy as far as I can tell. That was a very shitty dragon deck meant for casual play (Hello Kilnmouth playset in the sideboard), and if this deck has troubles against that types of decks, it's rather slow. Do you have the "Dragon Stompy" list?

sure, i doo....it's called using the interweeb.

you know what dragon stompy looks like...

4 magus
4 trinisphere
4 mox
2 city of traitors
4 other 2 colorless lands
2 jitte
1 fireandice
4 arcsloggers
3 taurean maulers
etc etc

[Shion]

Is there an advantage to playing this build over the T2 Heartbeat of Spring combo decks? Like sure, get the upgraded card like Fact or Fiction, but why would you want to play the clunky Reiterate win condition rather than just make a ton of mana with Early Harvests and Maga them out, with Rude Awakening as backup/extra untaps?

I worked on the Type 2 port of the Heartbeat deck a while back. I pretty much determined it would never be tier 1 and dropped it on the back burner, since I don't play casual much.

You can find my old build here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89891&highlight=legacy+heartbeat

I may have a more recent build lying around I never posted, I'll see if I can dig that up.

[ParkerLewis]

sure, i doo....it's called using the interweeb.

you know what dragon stompy looks like...

4 magus
4 trinisphere
4 mox
2 city of traitors
4 other 2 colorless lands
2 jitte
1 fireandice
4 arcsloggers
3 taurean maulers
etc etc

I think that's what he meant. As you can see, there's no such thing as Kilnmouth Dragon in a DS list. I mean, unless it's a horrible one...

[jericohs@cottage]

Yeah, your list directly reflects the type 2 version of heartbeat. I left the control elements as well as the kill condition in order to improve the decks flexibility. This might of been a mistake. If i revert to adding counters i usually end up in a chase rare controll scenario. I'll post that list l8ter. But it really isn't a Heartbeat deck after the changes.

Rude Pact.dec version 5 (alternate list_doesn't support hearbeat at all anymore)
--------

Teh Winz
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Rude Awakening
1 Timbermare

Search and Utility
3 Eternal Witness
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Intuition
3 Moment's Peace
3 Summoner's Pact
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell

Getting Lands
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow

Lands
6 Forest
1 Island
2 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With this list:
Rude Pact.dec version 4
--------

Teh Winz
1 Beacon of Creation
or
1 Fire/Ice
or
1 Demonfire
or
3 Rude Awakening
1 Timbermare (conjunction with summoner's pact - play timbermare - then rude with entwine)

Teh Combo
4 Early Harvest
3 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Reiterate

Search and Utility
4 Eternal Witness
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Intuition
3 Moment's Peace
3 Summoner's Pact

Getting Lands
4 Kodama's Reach
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow

Lands
13 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain

Teh Sideboard
3 Vexing Susher
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
1 Dosan, The Falling Leaf
3 Krosan Grip



I figured with the summoner's pacts and eternal witness loops i could eventually push through a controll deck's game plan. This hasn't been as effective for Threshold but it has seemed to have worked for Landstill "ish" lists.

As for improving the flex of the deck, i centered myself around removing maga or invoke the firemind and introduced several diff types of comboish kills. But all I did at this point was add red to the same effect.

Fire/Ice and Reiterate once you float 10 mana (8 of any type and 2 red) you can effectively loop an infinite draw engine or kill condition. Demonfire / Reiterate is another option. If i go unopposed i usually draw my entire deck with Ice, then play every single card drawn (making the demonfire uncounterable) and casting it for infinite dmg. Now, this doesn't weed out the fact that you'll likely fetch a counter the first time you play Early Harvest.

Game two I can I usually board in the majority of the sideboard to deal with this issue. The Dosan is there to clear the way and the trinispheres make sure he can only cast one counter at a time.

The other kill, as mentioned is the timbermare to rude awakening kill. I usually attempt this combo first to weed out counters.

Can anyone make the latest list a bit more flexible for game one against Thresh???

[jericohs@cottage]

I think that's what he meant. As you can see, there's no such thing as Kilnmouth Dragon in a DS list. I mean, unless it's a horrible one...

I don't see Dragon Stompy being that difficult anymore, since i only have basics, magus is useless. And, his trinispehere's are completely useless. I don't see how this match-up needs to be discussed any further. I'm heavilly favored match-up vs Dragon Stompy. Next.

[Willoe]

Easy now, you aren't heavily favored.

You play no disruption yourself (a bad thing), so he's "heavily favored" as well.

Dragon Stompy is a good deck (as well if you like) if you remember, but I certainly believe you have a chance.