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badjuju
11-01-2008, 08:44 AM
Hey Source,

So I'm working on a 5C control deck (since my combo deck utterly failed) for 2HG Highlander, and I finally got to test it out tonight. I realized that a lot of cards just aren't good enough, and that there are several sleeper game-breaking spells. All in all, my deck performed at my expectations (especially since I was missing about 12-13 of the cards I needed), and I'm hoping to extract some ideas from you guys on ways to improve the brutality of my deck.

The idea: to play the best control spells available in the format and gain massive card advantage.

That's what I was doing all night. Draw spells and wrath effects, draw spells and some more wrath effects, drop a Sacred Mesa and go all the way. I seem to have undervalued instant speed spot removal as well as global removal (Starstorm went way up in my book), and overrated cards that maybe good in other constructed formats (ie. Brainstorm). My philosophy is that the cards in my deck should either net me cards when played, or set me up for that play. Greed is the name of the game. You don't need to win right away, you just need to put your opponent in a state where he's dead on board and you're overflowing with cards in hand (btw, I might have overrated Compulsion, as silly as that sounds. I just never wanted to pitch a card cause all of my cards are just too good!). Also note that I run very few creatures and just plan to win with creatures that my opponents cast. This eliminates a lot of Bribery/Control Magic/Reanimate shenanigans and allows me to play an excess of removal and good spells, gradually overwhelming my opponents with incremental card advantage.

Now I'll go ahead and explain some card choices for each color.

Creature Base
-------------------
Wood Elves
Etched Oracle
Drift of Phantasms
Anarchist
Scrivener
Izzet Chronarch
//
Liliana Vess
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Jace Beleren

Creatures in this format are bane and blessing. The obviously best ones are the ones with "come into play" effects, granting auto two-for-ones (ie. FTK). I opted to exclude any large creatures with big effects. I just didn't feel the need for those kinds of win conditions, let alone expose myself to my opponents' creature-jack and reanimate effects. What I do have are creatures that abuse my amazing spells and chump block at the same time. I believe Etched Oracle speaks for itself and Drift of Phantasms transmutes for the nuts -- see multi-colored section. My planeswalker selection I'm very happy with, although Garruk can probably find a place here as well.

White Spells
------------------
Swords to Plowshares
Condemn
Wrath of God
Rout
Austere Command
Catastrophe
Akroma's Vengeance
Decree of Justice
Sacred Mesa

White's job is as blunt as ever. Wrath, wrath, wrath. I'm debating how many total wrath effects I do want, but having around 8-10 has served me well (not including the red, artifact, or multicolored board sweepers). Which wrath effects are better? Some are situationally better, others can be debated for contending slots. I'll list some runner-ups below. Decree of Justice and Sacred Mesa are amazing win conditions as well.

Black Spells
-----------------
Damnation
Decree of Pain
Dregs of Sorrow
Diabolic Edict
Diabolic Tutor
Beseech the Queen
Beacon of Unrest
Reanimate

Black offers more wrath effects and removal, the best and only available tutors of the format, and reanimate spells. I believe these are some of the best. Once again, tons of runner-ups which I will discuss later. If you have anymore house black cards, let me know!

Blue Spells
-------------
Compulsion
Fact or Fiction
Careful Consideration
Opportunity
Tidings
Merchant Scroll
Mystical Teachings
Bribery
Acquire
Govern the Guildless
Blatant Thievery

Blue is a house. Allowing me to draw an insane of bombs makes me feel dirty inside. There's a good mix of instant and sorcery draw spells as well. Note that this helps diversify what I can tutor for as well as bring back with Anarchist, Scrivener, and Izzet Chronarch. A resolved big draw spell will generally secure my safety for several turns ahead. Blue is also the source of many win conditions. I basically just jack whatever my opponents are using and beat them in the face with it. It's been working out pretty well. The only real card I'm considering cutting is Compulsion. You might call me insane but card quality is at an even insaner high in this deck that even with Compulsion out, I only ever cycle about 3-4 times per game.

Green Spells
-------------
Farseek
Kodama's Reach
Reap and Sow
Life from the Loam
Harmonize
Restock
Rude Awakening

Green is one of the more underwhelming colors in my deck. I never really want to draw these spells, but the format requires that I have at least 7 spells of each color. Mana fixing is fine, but the mana-base for the deck is so well off I hardly ever get color screwed. Life from the Loam has been important for getting back Strip Mined lands (like Mishra's Factory or Kor Haven), Restock is amazing on many different levels, and Rude Awakening is a tool that will just destroy an unsuspecting opponent (it's untested, but sounds decent at least - though an untimely anything could really mess me up. Might replace with Krosan Grip just to be safe :X ).

Red Spells
-------------
Pyroclasm
Slice and Dice
Starstorm
Urza's Rage
Wild Ricochet
Shunt

Red is a wild card here. I just need to have 7 spells again, and this is what I came up with. More global removal, a solid win condition, and two sleeper spells that are actually quite insane in this format. Wild Ricochet as single-handedly won several games and should be an auto-include in any deck running red. The effect that it creates is just too great to ignore. Pyroclasm and Slice and Dice are both fairly weak. I'm looking for better red cards to run overall.

Multi-Colored Spells
---------------------
Vindicate
Terminate
Putrefy
Mortify
Pernicious Deed
Bant Charm
Esper Charm
Firespout
Hull Breach
Voidslime
(Perplex)
Crime/Punishment
Debtor's Knell

Oh boy. The cream of the crop. There are so many other cards that should be in here that aren't, but some of the best shit ever is in this pile. This is my golden toolbox (literally) and answers just about anything out there. What's even more surprising is that my mana base rarely has trouble casting anything, so I can be as happily greedy as I want. Note that most of the spells are tutorable via Mystical Teachings, Drift of Phantasms, and possibly Perplex.

Artifacts
-------------
Engineered Explosives
Oblivion Stone
Sensei's Divining Top

Three strong spells here. Questions?

So that's the basic outline of my deck. I'm about 3 cards over, so I do need to cut things. It's difficult because I've got a list of 20 other cards that definitely want to see the light of day. I'll go ahead and list them here.

More greedy cards!
----------------------------------
Allied Strategies
Perplex
Prophetic Bolt
Hoofprints of the Stag
Nucklavee
Final Judgement
Cruel Ultimatum
Hallowed Burial
Nevinyral's Disk
Krosan Grip
Suffocating Blast
Absorb
Undermine
Last Word
Rewind
Time Stop
Savage Twister
Plague Wind
Hex
Concentrate
Vedalken Shackles
Recoup
Barter in Blood
Dralnu, Lich Lord
Toshiro Umezawa
Ray of Distortion
Spell Jack
Commandeer
Persuasion
Control Magic
Treachery
Desertion
Frantic Search
Compulsive Research
Fireball
Demonfire
Resounding Silence
Resounding Thunder
Mobilization
Pestilence
Retribution of the Meek
Orim's Thunder
Necrogenesis
Pulse of the Fields


That's an abridged list too, but not much else makes the cut. I'm looking for really powerful spells (that aren't creatures), with really game-breaking effects. As it stands, I believe I have already picked out the best of the bunch and am going to run with it.
While playing the deck, I noticed that instant speed removal is huge. I'm not sure what else is good in that department. Unmake maybe?

Also, most Regrowth effects are banned. This includes Regrowth, Reclaim, Recollect, and Eternal Witness. Restock is a rare exception.
Buyback and Retrace are both banned. Flashback is NOT banned(cmon guys, give me some more good ideas!)

If you have any insight or suggestions, I am 100% open to them all. Thanks for reading and hope to hear from you soon!

badjuju
11-02-2008, 08:31 AM
Okay well it doesn't seem like I'll be getting a great amount of feedback, so I'll just be making posts here as updates and ideas for my deck further evolve.

One thing I've realized in 2HG Casual Highlander, is that you can't count on anything, and yet you can expect everything. Tonight I had the chance to play my deck for the first time in an actual match, and it has revealed many things to me about the format and what kind of cards really shine.

An Overview
So we have 4 players. I am a sorcery-speed control deck, another guy is playing aggro with mana-denial, guy #3 is playing mid-range control, and the last is playing bombs/control.dec. The person with the strongest deck, imo, is the aggro Zoo deck with mana denial strategies. He really gets in there fast and hard with his low curve, and leaves your team close to 20 before you can dig up the answers to keep him from running you over. What greatly affects his performance is how his partner backs him up with various removal and counter spells. This really turns him into a vicious and relentless clock. While we were discussing deck archetypes, he went ahead and threw out a comment that made me ponder for quite a while (and I still haven't found the answer):

"Control decks in multiplayer are the beginner decks. No seriously. They feel like they can contain the game, but in reality they just can't."

Truth. Partially.

A control deck with the correct goal in mind is a lot more powerful than he's giving credit for. What my friend, Hiro, was talking about is permission decks. In a format where there are several players, countering a spell is actually card disadvantage. You may be stopping a crucial spell, yes, but in reality you are dealing with two players and not just one, meaning what one threat you stop gives your second opponent permission to cast his.

I had already known this in the back of my head, and it's pretty obvious when you lay it out like that, but there are several twists and turns to this argument, and I don't think there is a correct answer.

The Argument Against Counterspells

Counterspells in multiplayer formats are card disadvantage. That's why I decided to make my deck sorcery speed - because sorcery speed removal should generally net you more than one card. In a format where you will have two opponents continually dropping threats, being able to wrath the board over and over again will grant you incremental card advantage and eventually put you in control of the entire situation. All things can be answered after they have been played and generally in a fashion that favors you.

Tapping out also becomes a major issue with counterspells. Games will often drag and people will have immense amounts of mana, meaning they can bait spells and draw out your counterspells.

The Argument for Counterspells

Everything can be answered without the use of counterspells. This is what I believed in till my encounter with a different kind of savagery today: land destruction. A timely Armageddon, Cataclysm, or hell even a Realm Razer, can spell an auto-loss. It's a situationally unfortunate situation, yet devastating enough, that I have to take into consideration when constructing my decks. Running absolutely "counterless" is probably an un-viable strategy.

Another problem I've noted was the threat of hasted creatures. Cards like Anger become a huge problem, because my sorcery speed removal spells, while still good, all of a sudden aren't stopping lifeloss dead in its tracks. Cards like Starstorm and Rout, as well as Decree of Pain, become infinitely better. Spot removal, while still not as powerful as wrath effects, are still more important than ever. I'm considering finding more two-for-one instant effects, examples being Orim's Thunder or Suffocating Blast.

Recognizing the Need for Strong Creatures

I originally wanted to play deck that didn't rely on creatures as win conditions. Tonight has lead me to believe otherwise. There are a select group of elite creatures that are just too powerful to not include. They are the following:

Angel of Despair
Bogardan Hellkite
Woodfall Primus
Flametongue Kavu

These creatures create card advantage by themselves, and sometimes in great numbers. Beyond that, my original logic for not running strong creatures because I feared removal, control, and reanimation effects is just flawed. I might not run a full suite of creatures, but these come-into-play effects alone are what make these guys worth running. They also stop the ever important backdooring. Woodfall Primus and Angel of Despair add to the very few number of cards that can actually straight up deal with Planeswalkers, a very new and prominent threat.

Cards that didn't perform:

Drift of Phantasms - clunky, targets meh
Merchant Scroll - slow
Firespout - not enough targets
Savage Twister - decent, but tight on room
Pyroclasm - not enough creatures to kill
Beseech the Queen - super clunky
Life from the Loam - never really needed it
Engineered Explosives - too narrow, usually only hits one thing
Dregs of Sorrow - super-costly
Harmonize - should be cut because it's no better than Concentrate, and that was already cut

Cards that are possibly working their way in:

Angel of Despair
Woodfall Primus
Bogarden Hellkite
Flametongue Kavu
Last Word
Suffocating Blast
Orim's Thunder
Tooth and Nail
Allied Strategies

Possibly more targeted, instant speed removal. Maybe Wing Shards. Also, Mobilization and Hoofprints both sound like amazing additions.
Are there anymore cards that are like Starstorm?

Whew glad that's done.

badjuju
11-02-2008, 05:20 PM
Here is the current decklist @ 103 cards; 54 spells, 40 lands, 9 creatures.

// Lands
1 [CHK] Mountain (1)
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
1 [RAV] Temple Garden
1 [DIS] Blood Crypt
1 [GP] Stomping Ground
1 [9E] Plains (2)
1 [TSP] Island (3)
1 [RAV] Swamp (1)
1 [ALA] Forest (2)
1 [RAV] Sacred Foundry
1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
1 [SC] Temple of the False God
1 [ALA] Seaside Citadel
1 [ALA] Savage Lands
1 [7E] City of Brass
1 [ALA] Arcane Sanctum
1 [JU] Krosan Verge
1 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
1 [NE] Kor Haven
1 [U] Bayou
1 [R] Tundra
1 [U] Taiga
1 Scrubland
1 [A] Savannah
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [A] Plateau
1 [U] Badlands
1 [U] Underground Sea
1 [A] Tropical Island
1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
1 [GP] Godless Shrine
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
1 [GP] Steam Vents
1 [DIS] Ghost Quarter

// Creatures
1 [GP] Izzet Chronarch
1 [EX] Anarchist
1 [8E] Wood Elves
1 [OD] Scrivener
1 [FD] Etched Oracle
1 [PS] Flametongue Kavu
1 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
1 [SHM] Woodfall Primus
1 [GP] Angel of Despair

// Spells
1 [LRW] Jace Beleren
1 [LRW] Liliana Vess
1 [RAV] Farseek
1 [GP] Mortify
1 [AP] Vindicate
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
1 [PS] Terminate
1 [CHK] Kodama's Reach
1 [DS] Reap and Sow
1 [ON] Slice and Dice
1 [ON] Starstorm
1 [GP] Debtors' Knell
1 [IN] Urza's Rage
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [MR] Oblivion Stone
1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
1 [DIS] Crime/Punishment
1 [PS] Hull Breach
1 [RAV] Putrefy
1 [ALA] Bant Charm
1 [ALA] Esper Charm
1 [ALA] Elspeth Knight-Errant
1 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [TE] Diabolic Edict
1 [SC] Decree of Pain
1 [PLC] Damnation
1 [DIS] Condemn
1 [9E] Diabolic Tutor
1 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
1 [ON] Akroma's Vengeance
1 [US] Catastrophe
1 [LRW] Austere Command
1 [IN] Rout
1 [10E] Wrath of God
1 [ON] Blatant Thievery
1 [FD] Acquire
1 [MM] Bribery
1 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
1 [TSP] Careful Consideration
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
1 [9E] Tidings
1 [10E] Beacon of Unrest
1 [IN] Restock
1 [LRW] Wild Ricochet
1 [AT] Sacred Mesa
1 [DIS] Voidslime
1 [UL] Opportunity
1 [DS] Last Word
1 [BOK] Final Judgment
1 [PS] Dromar's Charm
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [PS] Allied Strategies
1 [VI] Tithe
1 [MR] Tooth and Nail

I decided to add Dromar's Charm over Suffocating Blast. Blast is too situational, and charm is exactly the type of versatility the deck likes to have. I went ahead and included all the new creatures as well as TNN as a win condition now. Tithe is an amazing mana-fixing ability that I've overlooked. I suppose I don't really need Wood Elves and Careful Consideration is starting to pale in comparison to my new draw spells. New stuff I'm considering that is up for debate:

[B]Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
Mystic Snake
Body Double
Eternal Dragon
Draining Whelk
Garruk Wildspeaker

Desertion
Spelljack

Twilight Shepherd (just cause it looks cool :P)