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TheInfamousBearAssassin
12-16-2008, 06:22 PM
So, I was drafting Cube a fair amount out of boredom over on www.ccgdecks.com, and I came to some interesting conclusions.

The first was noticing that I didn't actually mind the fact that the draft set generates duplicates. The Singleton thing was less interesting than the massive collection of favoritest cards thing.

The second, which juxtaposed the first, was the usual observation that it's damned difficult to make an aggro deck in Cube. The board sweepers are nearly as prevalent as the weenies, especially outside of red and white.

Long story short, I came to the conclusion that the ideal form of Cube drafting would be an actual set (see title of thread) based around the Cube concept. Ideally, Wizards would print out packs with gold borders at $2 a pop, which, nothing else, could be used for proxies (but still conveying cash to Wizards), but which would also allow for the ideal form of Cube drafting; or of the same distilled concept anyway.

I'm basing the distributing of common to rare based on casting cost and card advantage, with the former tending to be common and the latter occupying the rare slot.

Commons/Uncommons/Rares: 180/180/180

W Commons (32)

Savannah Lions
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Mother of Runes
Icatian Javelineer
Weathered Wayfarer
Silver Knight
Order of Leitbur
Knight of Meadowgrain
Hand of Honor
Sinew Sliver
Azorius Herald
Spectral Lynx
Soltari Priest
Soltari Monk
Whitemane Lion
Ethersworn Canonist
Paladin en-Vec
Serra Avenger
Ronom Unicorn
Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Griffin Guide
Swords to Plowshares
Exile
Condemn
Renewed Faith
Oblivion Ring
Disenchant
Orim's Thunder
Aura of Silence
Enlightened Tutor
Momentary Blink

W Uncommons: (28)

Calciderm
Exalted Angel
Karmic Guide
Reveillark
Feudkiller's Verdict
Chronosavant
Archon of Justice
Cloudgoat Ranger
Celestial Crusader
Mirror Entity
Academy Rector
Pianna, Nomad Captain
Glowrider
Stonecloaker
Spectral Procession
Blinding Angel
Eight and a Half Tails
Wing Shards
Faith's Fetters
Shining Shoal
Auriok Champion
Vengeful Dreams
Waylay
Abeyance
Ray of Rebelation
Return to Dust
Empyrial Armor
Parallax Wave

W Rare (24)
Sacred Mesa
Decree of Justice
Yosei, The Morning Star
Twilight Shepherd
Eternal Dragon
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Glory
Mageta, The Lion
Magus of the Disk
Wrath of God
Akroma's Vengeance
Austere Command
Hallowed Burial
Rout
Armageddon
Cataclysm
Ajani Goldmane
Elspeth, Knight Errant
Hoofprints of the Stag
Balance
Moat
Story Circle
Humility
Land Tax

U Commons (32)
Cursecatcher
Fathomseer
Voidmage Prodigy
Spellstutter Sprite
Cloud of Faeries
Mulldrifter
Spiketail Hatchling
Riftwing Cloudskate
Raven Familiar
Ninja of the Deep Hours
Man-O-War
Spiketail Drakeling
Pestermite
Plaxmanta
Waterfront Bouncer
Ophidian
Looter il-Kor
Court Hussar
Trinket Mage
Winged Sliver
Brainstorm
Serum Visions
Portent
Ponder
Impulse
Counterspell
Mana Leak
Remand
Force Spike
Memory Lapse
Echoing Truth
Repeal

U Uncommon (28)
Serendib Efreet
Sea Drake
Draining Whelk
Gilded Drake
Vedellion Clique
Body Double
Vesuvian Shapeshifter
Master of Etherium
Wakethrasher
Sower of Temptation
Wonder
Tradewind Rider
Brine Elemental
Fact or Fiction
Deep Analysis
Gifts Ungiven
Thirst for Knowledge
Mystical Tutor
Mystical Teachings
Mana Drain
Negate
Remove Soul
Forbid
Complicate
Dismiss
Control Magic
Treachery
Jilt

U Rare (24)
Morphling
Keiga, the Tide Star
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Aeon Chronicler
Guile
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Venser, Shaper Savant
Jushi Apprentice
Jace Beleren
Tezzeret, the Seeker
Cryptic Command
Time Stop
Time Walk
Time Spiral
Ancestral Recall
Stroke of Genius
Braingeyser
Future Sight
Tidings
Mind's Desire
Upheaval
Psionic Blast
Capsize
Opposition

B Commons (32)
Carnophage
Sarcomancy
Carrion Feeder
Sewer Rats
Withered Wretch
Dark Confidant
Nantuko Shade
Order of the Ebon Hand
Hand of Cruelty
Ravenous Rats
Wretched Anurid
Yixlid Jailer
Black Knight
Mesmeric Fiend
Flesh Reaver
Hypnotic Specter
Faerie Macabre
Chittering Rats
Bone Shredder
Nekrataal
Shriekmaw
Dark Ritual
Sinkhole
Icequake
Duress
Thoughtseize
Hymn to Tourach
Diabolic Edict
Smother
Snuff Out
Nameless Inversion
Terror

B Uncommons (28)
Phryexian Negator
Tombstalker
Juzam Djinn
Rotlung Reanimator
Horobi, Death's Wail
Puppeteer Clique
Phyrexian Plaguelord
Plague Sliver
Bitterblossom
Yukora, the Prisoner
Bad Moon
Mindtwist
Persecute
Necromancy
Makeshift Mannequin
Reanimate
Vigor Mortis
Sickening Shoal
Contagion
Chainer's Edict
Sudden Death
Strangling Soot
Ribbons of Night
Vampiric Tutor
Imperial Seal
Night's Whisper
Skeletal Scrying

B Rares (24)
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Bane of the Living
Visara the Dreadful
Skeletal Vampire
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Desolation Angel
Necropotence
Phyrexian Arena
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Demonic Tutor
Yawgmoth's Will
Damnation
Decree of Pain
Barter in Blood
Profane Command
Recurring Nightmare
Beacon of Unrest
Living Nightmare
Lilliana Vess
Pox
Nether Void
No Mercy
The Abyss

R Commons (32)
Kird Ape
Jackal Pup
Grim Lavamancer
Magus of the Scroll
Mogg Fanatic
Goblin Lackey
Slith Firewalker
Keldon Marauder
Goblin Piledriver
Blood Knight
Mogg War Marshal
Goblin Warchief
Goblin Matron
Sulfur Elemental
Keldon Vandals
Magus of the Moon
Gempalm Incinerator
Blade Sliver
Taurean Mauler
Fire Imp
Avalanche Riders
Lightning Bolt
Chain Lightning
Firebolt
Seal of Fire
Incinerate
Magma Jet
Stone Rain
Pillage
Brute Force
Reckless Charge

R Uncommons (28)
Skizzik
Blistering Firecast
Countryside Crusher
Dwarven Blastminer
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Sedge Troll
Goblin Ringleader
Changeling Berserker
Zo-zu the Punisher
Goblin Sharpshooter
Imperial Recruiter
Goblin Goon
Flametongue Kavu
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Demonfire
Fanning the Flames
Char
Recoup
Flame Javelin
Urza's Rage
Pyrokinesis
Fireblast
Slice and Dice
Pyroclasm
Word of Seizing
Grab the Reins
Aftershock
Genju of the Spire

R Rares (24)

Ryusei, The Falling Star
Kumano, Master Yamabushi
Siege-Gang Commander
Arc-Slogger
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Rorix Bladewing
Thunder Dragon
Bogardan Hellkite
Detritivore
Zodiac Dragon
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Chandra Nalaar
Crater Hellion
Incendiary Command
Starstorm
Rolling Earthquake
Molten Disaster
Wildfire
Wheel of Fortune
Form of the Dragon
Sneak Attack
Hammer of Bogardan
Beacon of Destruction
Ruination

G Commons (32)
Skyshroud Elite
Jungle Lion
Llanowar Elves
Birds of Paradise
Basking Rootwalla
Ghazban Ogre
Nimble Mongoose
Wild Mongrel
Tarmogoyf
River Boa
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Viridian Zealot
Werebear
Muscle Sliver
Vinelasher Kudzu
Quirion Dryad
Kavu Titan
Albino Troll
Loaming Shaman
Wood Elves
Sprout Swarm
Yavimaya Dryad
Giant Growth
Rancor
Elephant Guide
Moment's Peace
Kodama's Reach
Wild Growth
Search for Tomorrow
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Roots
Naturalize

G Uncommons (28)
Blastoderm
Phantom Centaur
Iwamori of the Open Fist
Chameleon Colossus
Masked Admirers
Ravenous Baloth
Caller of the Claw
Eternal Witness
Indrik Stomphowler
Patagia Viper
Call of the Herd
Viridian Shaman
Ohran Viper
Carven Caryatid
Yavimaya Elder
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Krosan Tusker
Troll Ascetic
Life from the Loam
Moldervine Cloak
Krosan Grip
Creeping Mold
Regrowth
Overrun
Stonewood Invocation
Berserk
Chord of Calling
Harmonize

G Rares (24)
Jugan, The Rising Star
Kodama of the North Tree
Gigapede
Deranged Hermit
Molder Slug
Plated Slagwurm
Symbiotic Wurm
Genesis
Cloudthresher
Timbermare
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Vigor
Verdant Force
Tornado Elemental
Garruk Wildspeaker
Plow Under
Primal Command
Sylvan Library
Survival of the Fittest
Natural Order
Rude Awakening
Tooth and Nail
All Suns' Dawn
Restock

Which leaves 120 slots for artifact, gold, and land, which I'll get to later. I was thinking I could throw in a random painland or karoo in the basic land slot, too.

This is a rough draft list; some cards might need to change rarity. I'm also trying to figure out how to fit one color leaning card (Kird Ape, Jilt, Mystical Teachings, etc.) for each color, in each color (so four in each color), but I'm coming up short with ideas for some of these.

rockout
12-16-2008, 07:13 PM
How do "Cube" drafts work exactly? Just like regular drafting but pre-determined card pools?

Pinder
12-16-2008, 08:27 PM
How do "Cube" drafts work exactly? Just like regular drafting but pre-determined card pools?

Pretty much. There's the Cube, which is a huge collection of the best cards in Magic's history. Then you seperate them into 15 card "packs" (2 of each WUBRG and artifacts, 1 Gold, 1 Hybrid, Land), and draft them as usual.

It's awesome because it's absolutely nutty to get things like a first pick Sol Ring, second pick Mox Whatever in limited. Just the other day I ran a U/G deck with Tradewind Rider + Mystic Snake.

Wobbles The Goose
12-16-2008, 11:43 PM
Interesting set. Nothing imediately springs to mind of "oh, you aren't playing this?", although I'm not too sold on the silver subtheme.

Personally what I'd like to see wizards do is just print a box set designed for repeated drafting. Obviously it probably wouldn't be as fully powered as full fledged cube draft, but if they could just sell fixxed box of singletons that was designed so that 6-8 people could repreatedly draft out of it without using all the cards in a given draft, and I'd be a happy camper. Sell it for like 50-70 bucks, you could even have them be non-tourniment playable. The highlander aspect makes it feel like your drafting a much larger set, which helps things feel fresh. I despirately tried to do this with a few boxes of unhindged and then again with coldsnap, but it was just impossible to balance packs and the games felt really stale after a while.

Seriously, a box set of an expertly made pre-built 400-450 card highlander cube would be easily worth 70-75 bucks to me, even if I couldn't use those cards in other decks and if they were just all sorts of really good limited commons and uncommons. I mean, they have cube master Tom Lapille working for wizards right now. How has this not happened?

That said, I did finally break down and build a t4. That is the coolest format ever.

Captain Hammer
12-18-2008, 10:53 AM
I really like your cube list. Can't wait to see your choices for gold, artifact and land.

My question is, does ccgdecks.com let you draft and play magic online via workstation with you particular cube list? If so, how?

TheInfamousBearAssassin
12-19-2008, 04:54 AM
Currently, you cannot. I'm going to have to try and see about fixing that.

My preliminary draft on the others;


Gold Commons (20)

Azorius Guildmage
Absorb
Unmake
Mortify
Figure of Destiny
Lightning Helix
Selesnya Guildmage
Watchwolf
Spite/Malice
Undermine
Fire/Ice
Frenetic Efreet
Snakeform
Voidslime
Rakdos Guildmage
Terminate
Life/Death
Putrefy
Assault/Battery
Burning-Tree Shaman

Gold Uncommons (20)

Augury Adept
Pride of the Clouds
Stillmoon Cavalier
Vindicate
Duergar Hedge-Mage
Goblin Legionaire
Kitchen Finks
Loxodon Hierarch
Inkfathom Infiltrator
Psychatog
Izzet Guildmage
Electrolyze
Selkie Hedge-Mage
Mystic Snake
Fulminator Mage
Fire Covenant
Hag Hedge-Mage
Spiritmonger
Firespout
Fires of Yavimaya

Gold Rares (20)
Mirrorweave
Teferi's Moat
Debtors' Knell
Angel of Despair
Master Warcraft
Ajani Vengeant
Wilt-Leaf Liege
Mirari's Wake
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Dralnu, Lich Lord
Call the Skybreaker
Invoke the Firemind
Murkfiend Liege
Simic Sky Swallower
Demigod of Revenge
Wort, Boggart Auntie
Creakwood Liege
Pernicious Deed
Giant Solifuge
Sarkhan Vol


The gold section is restrictive. The quality of cards distributed over different color pairings is grossly lopsided, as is the distinction between hybrid and actual gold; black/green, for instance, has several very strong cards missing from this list; the hybrids are all rather weak, even including split cards.

Nonetheless, to keep the draft balanced, this is the list I'm going with.

Land Commons (15)

Shocklands
Vivid Lands

Land Uncommons (25)

Karoo Lands
Dual Lands
Wasteland
Mishra's Factory
Urza's Factory
Temple of the False God
Terramorphic Expanse

Land Rares (20)

Strip Mine
Mishra's Workshop
Bazaar of Baghdad
Library of Alexandria
Maze of Ith
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Diamond Valley
City of Brass
Undiscovered Paradise
Gemstone Mine
Thawing Glaciers
Reflecting Pool
Ancient Tomb
Minamo, Center of the Sea
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Desert
Karakas
Tolarian Academy
Tomb of Urami
Shivan Gorge
Gaea's Cradle

Common Artifacts (15)
Guild Signets
Sensei's Divining Top
Scroll Rack
Aether Vial
Lotus Petal
Bonesplitter

Uncommon Artifacts (15)
Prismatic Moxen
Tangle Wire
Pithing Needle
Chimeric Idol
Phyrexian War Machine
Juggernaut
Suchi
Solemn Simulacrum
Etched Oracle
Loxodon Warhammer
Lightning Greaves

Rare Artifacts (30)
Black Lotus
Sol Ring
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Umezawa's Jitte
Skullclamp
Cursed Scroll
Nevinyral's Disk
Oblivion Stone
Powder Keg
Engineered Explosives
Masticore
Razormane Masticore
Duplicant
Platinum Angel
Triskelion
Sundering Titan
Darksteel Colossus
Smokestack
Chalice of the Void
Winter Orb
Mindslaver
Mirari
Temporal Aperture
Phyrexian Processor
Memory Jar


That's now 210/200/190 Commons/Uncommons/Rares

So, now I just need to figure out a way to playtest this format. Probably involving harassing Kyle.

Tosh
12-19-2008, 04:10 PM
How do you make your packs? We Ninjas have been cubing for about 6 months and our construction of packs is: 2x Each Color, 2x Artifact, 1x Gold, 1x Hybrid, 1x Land.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
12-19-2008, 08:21 PM
What I'll probably do is proxy 1x of each Rare, 2x of each Uncommon, 4x of each Rare, and mark each rarity somehow. Then I'd have to stack up packs, probably distributing it 2x Rare, 4x Uncommon, 8x Common to each pack (with a Fetchland in the "basic land slot").

This doesn't solve the color bunching problem, though.

Jak
12-19-2008, 08:23 PM
What I'll probably do is proxy 1x of each Rare, 2x of each Uncommon, 4x of each Common, and mark each rarity somehow. Then I'd have to stack up packs, probably distributing it 2x Rare, 4x Uncommon, 8x Common to each pack (with a Fetchland in the "basic land slot").

This doesn't solve the color bunching problem, though.

Fixed.

Sounds cool. It would be nice if Wizards actually did this.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
12-21-2008, 02:26 PM
http://www.essentialmagic.com//Decks/View.asp?ID=671641

The test list is here. You can get an idea what it would be like to draft from the deck analysis, although it doesn't distribute the rarity's with exact eveness.

Anyone have ideas for green cards that get better when you play red or black?

frogboy
12-21-2008, 02:44 PM
How do you make your packs? We Ninjas have been cubing for about 6 months and our construction of packs is: 2x Each Color, 2x Artifact, 1x Gold, 1x Hybrid, 1x Land.

We usually just shuffle everything up and just use completely random packs. We also usually do four packs of eleven; more first picks are <3.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
12-22-2008, 03:09 PM
Oh, Tinder Wall. Duh.