[EDH] Horde of Notions (5c Control)

[Zach Tartell]

As this list stands, it's 104 cards. I need help choosing what to cut. Here are some thoughts:

Profane Command seems a little weak, perhaps. I don't always have enough creatures to get a creature out of it. But, at the same time, it's a bomb late game (what with the killing of opponents and/or swinging of armies).
I'm unsure about the Signets and Talismans, but the Portland folk tell me that 4 mana turn 3 is fairly solid. I'ma try 'em out.
Exalted Angel is clunky. She can start earning her worth turn 4, which is nice. She's also my only way to gain life (that doesn't have one of the most restrictive mana costs ever).
Glen Elendra Arch Mage is unfortunate in that it makes me tap out early (or devote a large amount of resources in the mid-to-late game), but is an efficient blocker against ridiculous fatties and is a fairly savage 2-for-1. And he doesn't have to tap (like Ertai, whom I have considered).
Ajani is amazing against threat-light decks, and helps in control, but is fairly lack-luster otherwise. A 4-mana, sorcery Lightning Helix isn't great (but is a second way to gain a couple life points here or there), but he can defend himself from attackers (or, rather, attacker) and is... alright?
Wild Ricochet has been amazing... twice. I'm not sold on it (but it ended games, straight up) upon resolution.
Merchant Scroll finds me Pact or Force or Intuition or Gifts (in no particular order). It feels weak, though. Y'all have thoughts?




General:
1 [LRW] Horde of Notions

Lands:
1 [U] Scrubland
1 [R] Badlands
1 [R] Bayou
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [B] Underground Sea
1 [A] Savannah
1 [R] Taiga
1 [R] Plateau
1 [A] Tundra
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [5E] City of Brass
1 [CFX] Rupture Spire
1 [TSP] Calciform Pools
1 [LRW] Vivid Grove
1 [LRW] Vivid Meadow
1 [LRW] Vivid Creek
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 [10E] Terramorphic Expanse
1 [TSP] Forest (1)
1 [10E] Island (3)
1 [7E] Swamp (3)
1 [BD] Mountain (2)
1 [4E] Plains (1)
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Mountain
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Swamp
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [TE] Wasteland
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
1 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
1 [ON] Barren Moor
1 [ON] Lonely Sandbar

Mana:
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
1 [TE] Harrow
1 [ON] Krosan Tusker
1 [DS] Darksteel Ingot
1 [MR] Talisman of Dominance
1 [MR] Talisman of Progress
1 [DIS] Simic Signet
1 [GP] Izzet Signet

Utility:
1 [ALA] Jund Charm
1 [OD] Coffin Purge
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [U] Regrowth
1 [DK] Amnesia
1 [EVE] Raven's Crime
1 [IN] Dismantling Blow
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [LRW] Wild Ricochet
1 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant

Board Sweepers:
1 [AP] Desolation Giant
1 [LRW] Austere Command
1 [8E] Wrath of God
1 [PLC] Damnation
1 [ON] Akroma's Vengeance
1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives (eh. It's closer to a sweeper than a spot removal spell)

Counterspells:
1 [REW] Hinder
1 [IA] Counterspell
1 [AL] Arcane Denial (1)
1 [EVE] Dream Fracture
1 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FUT] Pact of Negation
1 [MOR] Negate
1 [DIS] Voidslime
1 [8E] Rewind
1 [TSP] Draining Whelk
1 [OV] Dissipate
1 [SOK] Overwhelming Intellect
1 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage

Tutors:
1 [TE] Intuition
1 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
1 [8E] Merchant Scroll
1 [MI] Mystical Tutor
1 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
1 [U] Demonic Tutor
1 [OD] Tainted Pact

Spot Removal:
1 [OV] Swords to Plowshares
1 [ALA] Bant Charm
1 [RAV] Putrefy
1 [FNM] Chainer's Edict
1 [TE] Diabolic Edict
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [CFX] Path to Exile
1 [LRW] Chandra Nalaar (She's more spot removal than anything else.)

Card Quality/Quantity:
1 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
1 [LRW] Mulldrifter
1 [FD] Etched Oracle
1 [7E] Opportunity
1 [LG] Sylvan Library
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

Win Conditions:
1 [ON] Exalted Angel
1 [CFX] Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 [SHM] Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum
1 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [LRW] Profane Command

I'd appreciate any insight you guys could offer me. Anyone else ever play 5c Control?

[Bryant Cook]

This deck needs more nucklavee.

[Zach Tartell]

This deck needs more nucklavee.

Stick to skittles, bro. I play one red sorcery. Izzet Chronarch is way better than Nucklavee, and I don't even play him.

[Master Shake]

Jund Charm, Amnesia and Coffin Purge, really?

Merchant Scroll seems really weak considering your targets.

More signets seem better than Talismans. Especially Signets that filter white/green mana into Cruel Mana.

I'm really surprised to see that your not running any of the Ravnica Karoos.

Nucklavee would be better if he returned a red card other than Cruel Ultimatum.

I'm surprised to see you not using Oblivion Stone.

You win conditions seem lacking. You should probably look into Bribery and Desertion.

[Zach Tartell]

Jund Charm, Amnesia, Coffin Purge
Signets not of the blue pursuasion.
Karoos
Nucklavee
Merchant Scroll
Oblivion Stone
Bribery and Desertion




Jund Charm is amazing. Instant speed graveyard removal + instatnt speed Pyroclasm (this format is inundated terrible, 2/2 utility bears) = savage. Also, it lets Horde kill in four turns if necessary. Amnesia is amazing on turn five (or four, if you seriously rush out mana). It does a better job than Raven's Crime (although I suppose they fill different slots - Amnesia empties their hand, Crime keeps it empty). And Coffin Purge is necessary, at least in my meta (as there is a ridiculous amount of things worth spending one mana to kill forever).
I'm not even sold on these as it is. I certainly wouldn't run any that didn't tap for blue mana (and I'm not gonna add Azurious or Dimir, 'cause the Talismans give me colored mana if it's necessary, or don't. I also don't have to burn for one if I'm swordsing something).
Karoos - I'm thinking about adding one or two. But I'm not sure which colors, and I'm not sure what to cut (other than Vivids, I guess).
Kucklavee - I surely hope this is a joke. Witness is tits, and Chronarch proved too expensive (and bad) to play.
Scroll is good at doing what it does. Although I'd cut it if that's the general consensus.
I hadn't considered Oblivion Stone, and I'm not sure I want to. It does some things I don't like:

After adding the artifact mana I'm really concerned about using my board wipes. Adding another card that'll ruin my manabase after a while is weak. And then I'd have to find room for Academy Ruins.
It kills my Planeswalkers. Which is fairly not cool.
Dude, it costs eight to play and activate (and be grip-proof). That's a lot.

Bribery seems great (although I want to add Treachery, too, and I can't find space for it. Maybe Bribery is better?). Also, Desertion costs too much mana. I had it in for a while, but counterspells that cost more than three suck (unless you can find slots for it).

[snorlaxcom]

Lilian Vess can swing some card advantage as well as giving you a win condition. Phyrexian Arena can start to fill your hand early as the control deck likes drawing cards. Wargate might be able to fit in and can fetch for...anything! Granted it's sorcery speed, but tutoring for the win condition onto the field seems like power.

[Master Shake]

Jund Charm is amazing. Instant speed graveyard removal + instatnt speed Pyroclasm (this format is inundated terrible, 2/2 utility bears) = savage. Also, it lets Horde kill in four turns if necessary. Amnesia is amazing on turn five (or four, if you seriously rush out mana). It does a better job than Raven's Crime (although I suppose they fill different slots - Amnesia empties their hand, Crime keeps it empty). And Coffin Purge is necessary, at least in my meta (as there is a ridiculous amount of things worth spending one mana to kill forever).
I'm not even sold on these as it is. I certainly wouldn't run any that didn't tap for blue mana (and I'm not gonna add Azurious or Dimir, 'cause the Talismans give me colored mana if it's necessary, or don't. I also don't have to burn for one if I'm swordsing something).
Karoos - I'm thinking about adding one or two. But I'm not sure which colors, and I'm not sure what to cut (other than Vivids, I guess).
Kucklavee - I surely hope this is a joke. Witness is tits, and Chronarch proved too expensive (and bad) to play.
Scroll is good at doing what it does. Although I'd cut it if that's the general consensus.
I hadn't considered Oblivion Stone, and I'm not sure I want to. It does some things I don't like:

After adding the artifact mana I'm really concerned about using my board wipes. Adding another card that'll ruin my manabase after a while is weak. And then I'd have to find room for Academy Ruins.
It kills my Planeswalkers. Which is fairly not cool.
Dude, it costs eight to play and activate (and be grip-proof). That's a lot.

Bribery seems great (although I want to add Treachery, too, and I can't find space for it. Maybe Bribery is better?). Also, Desertion costs too much mana. I had it in for a while, but counterspells that cost more than three suck (unless you can find slots for it).


Apparently our EDH metagames are vastly different because I don't see any X/2s arou d me. If that is the case for you, I guess Jund Charm is the way to go.

I never like to use cards that affect only one player, like Amnesia, in EDH I generally always build my decks to have global effects. I'd rather play something like Myojin of Night's Reach. I know it costs literally one-billion mana but this format tends to be incredibly slow, and it happens.

@Oblivion Stone - Seriously, this is a format where Stime Stretch is on the watch list. 8 mana is not to expensive. Speaking of which - Time Stretch.

I think you're trying to be multiplayer friendly but you're seriously using Arcane Denial and Dream Fracture and asking if people can free up slots.

I'd play Vampiric Tutor or even Diabolic Tutor, or the pre-mentioned Lilliana Vess over Merchant Scroll.

The Nucklavee suggestion was to shoot it down. I was typing my reply before you posted your response to Bryant. I don't think that Nucklavee belongs in your deck.

Ajani Vengenat seems really out of place. I suppose a lot of these questions could be cleared up if you ever play in multiplayer games or if its just for one-on-one.

Its kind of a dick thing to do, but Strip Mine is legal to go along with your Gifts stack.

If I were building the deck, I'd make these cuts:

-1 Chandra Nalaar (slow)
-1 Profane Command
-1 Merchant Scroll
-1 Engineered Explosives (But apparently everyone plays weenie decks around you... so that's weird)
-1 Coffin Purge (There are really far better options, I like Stonecloaker quite a bit - you may not.)
-1 Raven's Crime
-1 Amnesia (for a more global effect)

I don't suggest cutting the accelerants because everyone else is going to be using them and you'll be left way behind.

But, I can't build a 5-color deck without it degenerating into combo.