Goyf and FoW in a madness shell

[Zappa]

So, I've decided to take a little break from playing Street Fighter 4, and I am now dusting off my magic cards again. I was last actively playing the decks that was on my signature. But anyways, today I was going to build a deck, when I stumble upon a bunch of cards that used to belong to madness deck. I remember that people who has access to Tarmogoyf, and is running the color for it tends to run them. So I am wondering if it can work well on a madness shell.

List I have in mind is something along the lines of:

//Lands (23)
4 Tropical Island
4 Breeding Pool
2 Snow-covered Island
2 Island
3 Snow-covered Forest
3 Forest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath

//Discard Outlet (11)
4 Careful Study
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Aquamoeba

//Other Creatures (12)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Arrogant Wurm

//Utility (1)
1 Wonder

//Card Draw (5)
3 Obsessive Search
2 Deep Analysis

//Permission Spells (8)
4 Force of Will
4 Circular Logic


//Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Stifle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Krosan Grip


With the removal of Roar of the Wurm, and the inclusion of Tarmogoyf. The deck requires lesser amount of mana to function. With amount of anti graveyard cards being boarded by a lot of decks, Roar of the Wurm, gets hit by them, plus it takes awhile to come out.

Could the addition of Tarmogoyf and Force of Will, in a madness shell work?
I understand the question of "Why play this over thresh?", well I don't see anyone playing madness over here. Also would just like something a little different. Could this be viable?

Thanks for reading and many thanks to those that responds.

[jakolhops]

-1 Aquameba
-3 obsesive research
+4 Survival of the Fittest

Survival with arrogant wurm and other madness is pretty good. Along with fetching the lone wonder.

[Zappa]

-1 Aquameba
-3 obsesive research
+4 Survival of the Fittest

Survival with arrogant wurm and other madness is pretty good. Along with fetching the lone wonder.

Survival of the fittest never even came to my mind. As it can also help me run some utility creatures. Someone from another forum, also mentioned Brainstorm and wasteland. When I checked deckcheck website, I noticed that brainstorm is indeed being run. and with fetchlands in the deck, it makes sense running it. However, i am not too sure about the wasteland. I really appreciate the respose, I never thought about the survival of the fittest.

[Dark_Cynic87]

I don't think Goyf belongs in a Madness list--Mongrel fills the spot better IMO, and that's too many 2-drops. You need more spells, preferably counters. I do like SotF in there, but I'd probably run it as a 2-3 of instead of straight 4. Also, it's almost danger of cool things as it will make you want to run more utility creatures than I think you should. Maybe a Madness Survival list would be cool...However, is it better than Intuition? That's the question that needs answered first I imagine.

Pce,

--DC

[ebbitten]

I don't think Goyf belongs in a Madness list--Mongrel fills the spot better IMO, and that's too many 2-drops. You need more spells, preferably counters. I do like SotF in there, but I'd probably run it as a 2-3 of instead of straight 4. Also, it's almost danger of cool things as it will make you want to run more utility creatures than I think you should. Maybe a Madness Survival list would be cool...However, is it better than Intuition? That's the question that needs answered first I imagine.

Pce,

--DC

While Goyf may not enable madness, I can't imagine a serious aggro-control UG deck that would not want to play goyf. It has so many uses and it outclasses wild mongrel in tons of those. Also intuition generally seems to be slower and not as strong as Survival so I personally would definitely reccomend survival. It allows for a decent game without relying on slow graveyard recursion and in the right deck still sets up inevability. conditional 3/3s are probably too small to make much of an effect in the current environment so I would probably reccomend cutting those. The real question that you need to answer is how is this going to be better than Thresh.

EDIT: just noticed that this was in the casual and budget form so feel free to ignore as much of my post as you desire.

[Maverick676]

When I play madness I run this list. It has won me a playset of goyfs and a playset of savannahs. One thing about playing madness in legacy is that arrogant wurm is just inferior to goyf, he costs more, is smaller usually and his trample doesn't matter with wonder in the deck (which is the only reason to play madness anymore btw).

4 Wasteland
4 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest

4 Wild Mongrel
3 Aquameoba
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Wonder

4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Circular Logic
3 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB-------------------
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Counterbalance
3 Hydroblast
3 Armageddon

[AngryTroll]

(which is the only reason to play madness anymore btw).

2 Wonder


+1 Wonder, at least. With the clock faster because of Goyf over Arrogant Wurm, you want to find Wonder early every game.

I'd be tempted to run Stifles in there somewhere-you're already running Daze, Wasteland, and early game pressure. But you are always going to tap out on turn two, so maybe not.

[Dark_Cynic87]

While Goyf may not enable madness, I can't imagine a serious aggro-control UG deck that would not want to play goyf. It has so many uses and it outclasses wild mongrel in tons of those. Also intuition generally seems to be slower and not as strong as Survival so I personally would definitely reccomend survival. It allows for a decent game without relying on slow graveyard recursion and in the right deck still sets up inevability. conditional 3/3s are probably too small to make much of an effect in the current environment so I would probably reccomend cutting those. The real question that you need to answer is how is this going to be better than Thresh.

EDIT: just noticed that this was in the casual and budget form so feel free to ignore as much of my post as you desire.

I don't think you have ever played madness competitively. Madness loses to a Needle or two. Goyf could work okay, you might even be happy to see it once in a while, but a better idea would be to run a more varied discard suite so that your list can operate through hate. Synergy is important in madness just as it is (and possibly more so than) for most other lists. Plus, turning card disadvantage into CA is crazy fun.

I played a type 1.5 legal list in a vintage side event at Nationals, 04, pulling victories over Dragon, Keeper, and goblins. I have a little experience with the list (Played it in all formats it's ever been legal in).

Here's a list I would run:

Creatures--18
3x Wild Mongrel
2x Narcomoeba
1x Wonder
3x Arrogant Wurm
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob (I love this guy; great synergy)
4x Basking Rootwalla
1x Eternal Witness
1x Simic Sky Swallower
1x Tarmogoyf (this is just to Survival into for a wall effect for opposing goyfs)
1x Viridian Shaman

Spells--22
4x SotF
1x Intuition
4x FoW
4x Daze//Spell Snare
4x Stifle
4x Brainstorm
1x Rushing River

4x Wasteland
4x Tropical Island
1x Breeding Pool
3x Delta/Strand
3x Heath/Foothills
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Island
1x Forest

I don't know if that will work, looks a bit jumbled right now, but that's a feel for the direction I would look to go. Taking slight advantage of the Survival ability but making sure not to venture into the danger of cool things. With your creatures being Madness, it will be easy to over-extend with Survival. Keep in mind that you just keep a creature on the board beating, they remove it, just G, discard, play, search. No over extending, but still pressure on the board.

It needs removal, but I didn't see spots for it, didn't know which color would be most advantageous (Black, white, red?), each with their own good sides and down sides. Don't really know what I need.

LMK what you guys think (I originally had -1 SotF/+1 Intuition). I wish Di would come in here. Seems to be pretty badass with the survival archetype, could really appreciate the thoughts.

Pce,

--DC