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Gui
07-15-2009, 11:13 AM
Hi!
I'm totally noob in EDH, and was willing to try something in the format, but since I consider myself a freaking deckbuilder, i refuse to take a built list and decide to use whatever comes to my mind first... So, i was considering using Eight-and-a-Half as General, and build a deck based on Monowhite winnies... Dunno if there is an idea about that already, but if not, then I shall post my decklist -n- you people may burn my ears with a lot of comments! ^^
What you say? Viable?

JeroenC
07-15-2009, 11:30 AM
White weenie usually isn't all that great. First off, you can only run each decent weenie once. Secondly, they have to put in double duty as the opponent has 40 life, and usually you'll be multiplaying. If you want to do White Weenie, I've heard Isamaru is a good general for that.

Gui
07-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Hmmm
Was thinking about eight-and-a-half since he has that protection-from-everything hability...
I was scratching a list of possible white winnies and stuff, and got like 40 or more winnies.

K, I'll post my list, then maybe the comments will be ever more enlightning =)

(Obs: Number in front of card is just to keep a count)
(Obs #2: Dunno how Snow-covered is suposed to work, but did it that way anyways)
(Obs #3: Editing some portuguese names - Edited )

General
Eight-and-a-Half Tails

Creatures
1 Savannah Lion
2 Isamaru
3 Icatian Javelin
4 Jothun Grunt
5 Serra Angel
6 Mother of Runes
7 Serra Avenger
8 Exalted Angel
9 Mangara
10 Boleador
11 Goldmeadow Harrier
12 Master Decoy
13 Academy Rector
14 Aven Mindcensor
15 Aven Cloudchaser
16 White Knight
17 Knight of the Holy nimbus
18 knight of the White Orchad
19 Silver Knight
20 Soltari Monk
21 Soltari Priest
22 Paladin Il-vec
23 Pentarch Paladin
24 Tivadar of the thron
25 Celestial Cruzader
26 Benalish Cavalary
27 Mtenda Herder
28 Cavalary master
29 Sindwider Sliver
30 Outrider en kor
31 Zhalfirin Commander
32 Zhalfirin Crusader
33 Zhalfirin knight
34 Order of Lebhur
35 Order of the White Shield
36 White Shield Crusader
37 Flickerwisp
38 Ronom unicorn
39 Niko-Onna
40 Cloudchaser Kestrel

Spells
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
5 Sword of Light and Shadow
6 Reprisal
7 Oblivion ring
8 Disenchant
9 Loxodon Warhammer
10 Glorious Anthemn
11 Crusade
12 Cursed Scroll
13 Mana tithe
14 Tithe
15 AEther Vial
16 Armageddon
17 Cataclysm
18 Pacifism
19 Arrest
20 Runed Halo
21 Sensei's Divining Top
22 Thunder Totem
23 Faith Fetters
24 Wing shards
25 Gelid Shackles
26 Parallax Wave
27 Enlightned Tutor

Lands:
25 Snow-covered Plains
26 Trokair
27 Wasteland
28 dust bowl
29 quicksand
30 Rishadan
31 Scrying Sheets
32 Mouth of Ronon

AngryTroll
07-15-2009, 11:41 AM
Because your opponents all start with 40 life, it is really hard to win with lots of small creatures. Your opponents have plenty of time to ramp up to enough mana to play board sweepers that cost four and more. With multiple opponents, your dudes are going to try to get in 40, 60, or 80 or more points of damage.

If you want to run weenie aggro, Gaddock Teag can be a real beating. Green gives you access to a ton of small creatures, some card draw, and instant speed pump. Gaddock Teag can severely hamper your opponents because you can reliably count on ramping up to more than four or five mana. Shutting off an opponents hand full of swingy bombs that cost four or more can buy you enough time to get in some swings. It's still hard to do enough damage with creatures to get there, though.

Armageddon, the Portal Armageddon (Ravages of War?), and other cards that blow up everyone's land should be in your deck if you have them, too. I believe the Portal Armageddon is super expensive, though.

Good luck!

Gui
07-15-2009, 12:21 PM
Hmmmm... Understood!

Gonna give it a try, just because it took me minutes of life to remember all winnies i used to know... If it goes any good, than maybe i come back with anything new xD

Eldariel
07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
Strongly suggest stacking mass buff effects. Lots of them. That means all your guys suddenly become major threats, and due to the nature of the format, you can afford the cards. That also allows you to actually deal 40 in a relevant amount of time. Also, mite as well throw in some of the token nonsense in present standard; Spectral Procession at least should be good enough.

And definitely play disruptive weenies like Ethersworn Canonist, True Believer, Glowrider and company to actually have meaningful means of interacting people. I'd definitely pack Abeyance just 'cause it cantrips; maybe even Chant though it's more situational and doesn't cantrip thus being less useful.

Gui
07-15-2009, 12:36 PM
Strongly suggest stacking mass buff effects. Lots of them. That means all your guys suddenly become major threats, and due to the nature of the format, you can afford the cards. That also allows you to actually deal 40 in a relevant amount of time.

And definitely play disruptive weenies like Ethersworn Canonist, True Believer, Glowrider and company to actually have meaningful means of interacting people. I'd definitely pack Abeyance just 'cause it cantrips; maybe even Chant though it's more situational and doesn't cantrip thus being less useful.

Oh, i c!
My buff effects for now are:
- Glorious Anthemn
- Crusade
- Celestial Crusader

There shall be plenty more than what i can remember now... a hand here pls? xD

Also fitting those then:
- Ethersworn Canonist
- True Believer
- Glowrider
- Orim's chant (possibly?!)
Anything else I should consider? Pale Curtain? CoPs?

Eldariel
07-15-2009, 12:39 PM
Samurai of the Pale Curtain is good anyways. And you missed Abeyance. Unfortunately the whole "Rules Weenies"-thing is relatively new and thus they lack numbers.

Oh, and pick Honor of the Pure from M10. And in case you missed my edit, Spectral Procession is definitely worth playing, and mayhap even Raise the Alarm.

Oh, and buffs:
Ajani Goldmane
Divine Sacrament
(Gerrard's Battle Cry) - it exists, but it just kinda sucks
Jihad - kinda unreliable, but meh
Strength of Unity - ditto
Light from Within

Off the top of my head for enchantments.

EDIT: Oh, and you could consider Konda's Banner given that you'll have a white Legend around pretty much always.

Gui
07-15-2009, 12:56 PM
Crusade is there already
Ajani, Divine S. and Light from W. are exactly what i should have

Jihad seems fine, dunno in the format though...
Strength of unity - not an AoE card ;D
Gerrard's seems fine for a 6-mana late-game with no cards in hand +2/+2 =P
Probly Elspeph could be added too...

-- Edits:
Damn, out of slots, gotta cut winnies and stuffs already oO
What should be mana base? thought abou 33 at first, but no clue eigther...
Gessing i'm cutting cursed scroll and sensei's, since they were fits only

What happens if i try to exile a general with, uhm, Parallax wave -or- o. ring, and what happens if i try that with swords?


Here's how it looks like after Eldariel's quite helpful tips, and most likely what i'm gonna try out as soon as I can:

General
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails

// Fast Kill Winnies:
1 Savannah Lion
2 Isamaru
3 Icatian Javelineers
4 Serra Avenger
5 Exalted Angel
6 White Knight
7 Knight of the Holy nimbus
8 knight of the White Orchad
9 Silver Knight
10 Soltari Monk
11 Soltari Priest
12 Paladin Il-vec
13 Tivadar of the thorn
14 Celestial Crusader
15 Benalish Cavalary
16 Serra Angel
17 Outrider en kor
18 Zhalfirin Commander
19 Zhalfirin Crusader
20 Zhalfirin knight
21 Order of Lebhur
22 Order of the White Shield
23 White Shield Crusader

// Combat skilled Winnies:
1 Mother of Runes
2 Whipcorder
3 Goldmeadow Harrier
4 Master Decoy

// Usefull -n- Disruptive Winnies:
1 Niko-Onna
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Academy Rector
4 Aven Mindcensor
5 Aven Cloudchaser
6 Ethersworn Canonist
7 Glowrider
8 True Beliver
9 Flickerwisp
10 Ronom unicorn
11 Cloudchaser Kestrel
12 Pentarch Paladin
13 Samurai of the pale Curtain

// Planewalkers
1 Elseph
2 Ajani

// Anti-critters Spells
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
3 Cataclysm
4 Pacifism
5 Arrest
6 Faith Fetters
7 Wing shards
8 Gelid Shackles
9 Parallax Wave


// Equipments
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Loxodon Warhammer
5 Konda's Banner

// Auras
1 Divine Sacrament
2 Glorious Anthemn
3 Crusade
4 Honor of the pure

// Useful Stuff anyways
1 Oblivion ring
2 Disenchant
3 Runned Halo
4 Abeyance
5 Raise the alarm
6 AEther Vial
7 Armaggedon
8 Thunder Totem
9 Enlighned Tutor

// Lands
1~23 Snow-covered Plains
24 Scrying Sheets
25 Trokair
26 Wasteland
27 Dust bowl
38 Mouth of Ronom
29 Quicksand
30 Rishadan

diffy
07-15-2009, 09:47 PM
I built White Weenie for our non-Elder-Dragon, thirty-life Highlander format not long ago and it wasn't too shabby. Since most games won and lost weren't even close, I guess that even with forty life it could still be some good.

Here are some pointers (bare with me if any of those cards happens to be banned in EDH - we only play actual good Highlander formats around here):
Play Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero as your General. With thirty life the deck couldn't win by going all-out aggro on your opponent - forty life don't make this any better. Rebel-advantage, on the other hand, just wins games. And plenty of them too.
That, or Hokori, Dust Drinker - he's quite good too, although weaker if you play him as General since people will see him coming.
Play all the mana-disruption elements you can find. All of them.
Also, all the Anthem-Effects - Anthems and LD are basically your only way to victory.
Creature-removal isn't that vital as you're mostly going to play guys with some inherent evasion - be it protection, flying, or shadow - or other uses besides being a beater.

Here's a list of cards to include - it isn't exhaustive, but rather an overview of the most efficient guys for their slots: (weakest links in italic)

// Mana Base-base (14)
Blinkmoth Nexus
Mishra's Factory
Mutavault
Kjeldoran Outpost
Windbrisk Heights
Scrying Sheets
Horizon Canopy
Karakas (I guess this is banned in EDH?)
Flagstones at Trokair
Wasteland
Dust Bowl
Strip Mine
Rishadan Port
Tithe
Land Tax
Knight of the White Orchid

From my experience, you'll want to be playing around 35-37 lands total because you absolutely need to hit those two white by turn two and then four generic mana by turn four. Also, excess mana will rarely break your neck thanks to pump-knights and other expensive shenanigans.

// Primary Wincondition aka. LD (4)
Winter Orb
Armageddon
Ravages of War
Hokori, Dust Drinker

Add Limited Resources if you're playing multi-player games. Cataclysm is meh-ish because it will always have a high to too high cost (i.e. 2-3 of your guys).

// Secondary Wincondition aka. Buff (14)
Crusade
Honor of the Pure
Divine Sacrament
Glorious Anthem
Jihad
Soltari Champion
Ajani Goldmane
Light from Within
Bonesplitter
Umezawa's Jitte
Grafted Wargear
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Light and Shadow
Elspeth, Knight Errant

Wilt-Leaf Liege is another solid option, as is Pianna, Nomad Captain.
If you need any more, Leonin Sun Standard is probably much better than Gerrard's Battle Cry - I wouldn't play any of the later two though. Charge Across the Araba is another hilarious option, although slightly unreliable due to its steep cost.

// Tertiary Wincondition aka. Rebel-Advantage (8)
Ramosian Sergeant
Ramosian Lieutenant
Defiant Falcon
Amrou Scout
Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
Knight of the Holy Nimbus
Whipcorder
Mirror Entity

The Rebel Engine is non-negotiable - all the searchers pose a major threat to the opponent as they allow you to re-build a board from scratch after a sweeper... and a good one too. Being able to pull out some dudes and then a Mirror Entity is just that good.

// The Good (15)
Soltari Foot Soldier
Suntail Hawk
Lantern Kami
Order of the Golden Cricket
Soltari Emissary
Soltari Trooper
Soltari Priest
Soltari Monk
Mistral Charger
Stormfront Pegasus
Leonin Skyhunter
Serra Avenger
White Shield Crusader
Stillmoon Cavalier
Spectral Procession

These guys are quintessential to your strategy - plain, simple and efficient dudes that will close to always be guaranteed damage. Combine any number of these and/or mix with some of your broken Artifacts and Enchantments and watch the opponent go down. It works with twenty life. It works with thirty life. So why shouldn't it work almost as well with forty?
Notable omission: Exalted Angel - just not good/efficient enough. For 3+4 Mana you want to cast at least five power, and then not die the miserable tempo-death to a single spot removal.

// The Bad (12)
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Savannah Lions
Elite Vanguard
Figure of Destiny
Blade of the Sixth Pride
Knight of Meadowgrain
White Knight
Silver Knight
Order of Leitbur
Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
Phyrexian Ironfoot
Hearthfire Hobgoblin

With the exception of the last (and, by the way, absolutely ridiculous) guy, these are all cards you feel you have to include because of their power/cost ratio, however they are also among the first cards to be cut because they aren't guaranteed damage (i.e. no evasion sucks big time).

// And The Ugly (10)
Weathered Wayfarer
Goldmeadow Harrier
Deftblade Elite
Azorius Guildmage
Ronom Unicorn
Kami of the Ancient Law
Jotun Grunt
Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Ranger of Eos

This category includes those of your critters that have some utility besides being two-or-so-mana-for-two-or-so-power dudes and therewith offering some limited form of virtual card advantage.
Playing with 40 life would mean that you'd want to cut down on the Bad and rather play more And the Ugly. As a consequence, you might want to have a look at these less efficient but still playable options too (most of which have already been pointed out): True Believer, Aven Mindcensor, Glowrider, Captain of the Watch, Cloudgoat Ranger.
Notable omissions: Mother of Runes, Ethersworn Canonist and Cloudchaser Kestrel - Mother of Runes doesn't do much on her own and isn't really aggressive in any way and therewith doesn't belong - same is true for Cloudchaser Kestrel: you never want to have to hold your guys back. Ethersworn Canonist shouldn't be played because he doesn't harmonize with your curve on any level: most of your guys cost two so that you can, want and must play more than on on each turn.

// Support aka. I guess you all figured these out (5)
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Oblivion Ring
Unmake
Parallax Wave

Stripped down to the bare minimum since you never want to have dead weight in your hand.


This very trimmed down list of suggestions already exceeds 100 cards - you therewith see that the deck has access to enough quality cards in order to be strong enough.
However, you also see that there is very little room to include those oh-so-cool stuffs, especially since every efficient card you cut severely hurts the decks overall performance - this makes the deck rather boring to play. On the other hand, White Weenie is a Highlander deck you can compete with in all existing Highlander formats with only minor adjustments, so it might be worth it, in the long run.

Hope that was of some help.

Gui
07-16-2009, 08:01 AM
Yeah, I aggre with pretty much everything you've said
The mana base worked fine to me with 30 lands though.
I would add only a thing or two to your options...

I've tryed the deck twice yesterday, and got two losses, but, they were close ones, and i could figure out few things:
The good point on running Eight-and-a-half-Tails in the maindeck is that as soon as you have big creatures in the table, you can attack with multiple creatures and save the ones that were to die. The Second but not less important point is that you are able to save your important stuff, and by that, i mean keeping 3 manas open as soon as you get a Jitte, a SoFaI os a Mass Area of Effect Enchantment

The bad part is that he demands too much mana, and you don't want to let 3 manas open all the time, since you have to be in a hurry.

If you play him right (wich i didn't all that much yesterday), he can be a house.

Savvi seems an easier and simplier General, gonna try that out (though EDH games takes too long to finish xD)

IMO, the creature hate helps pretty much in the games, and you listed a little less that I had run, so, im listing mine to add to yours:

- Swords to Plowshares
- Path to Exile
- Cataclysm
- Pacifism
- Arrest
- Faith Fetters
- Wing shards
- Gelid Shackles (With Snow-covered lands)
- Parallax Wave
- Goldmeadow Harrier
- Whipcorder
- Master Decoy

That shall give some extra go-through.

Gonna tweak the list and retry today, latter...