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Media314r8
08-10-2009, 10:10 PM
I played RB Goblins at the Ann Arbor Mox Sapphire event (32 or 34 players, I don’t remember) to go 4-0-1 in swiss rounds, cut to top eight, and split for prize, taking second in top eight standings. The list I played:

// Lands
4 [R] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [PT] Swamp (3)
6 [TSP] Mountain (1)

// Creatures
4 [MOR] Frogtosser Banneret
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
3 [10E] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
4 [7E] Goblin Matron
1 [LRW] Mad Auntie
3 [MOR] Earwig Squad
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
1 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 [MOR] Lightning Crafter

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [MOR] Warren Weirding

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [LRW] Mad Auntie
SB: 3 [AT] Goblin Tinkerer
SB: 4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 4 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

The round-by-round report:

Round 1: Vs Tony with Zoo

I run out a first turn vial, and he answers with a fetch into a grim lavamancer. Ouch. I bump up vial, and make a banneret, baiting the grim ping. He plays a SECOND lavamancer and another fetch to go active, and I have a very sad lackey (which I drew) through the vial. I draw and play a goblin chieftain, which eats it to lavamancer as my lackey trades for the untapped one and frogtosser hits for one. He untaps and plays a goyf with no third land drop. I have no fourth land, and I make a matron into an edict, which he sacs goyf to, followed by a mad auntie to allow frogtosser to swing in for two. He draws, passes, and I vial in a ringleader who nets me a SGC and a chieftain. Lacking the fourth land to hit SGC, autie falls to grim with chieftain on the stack, regen-shielding ringleader, and chief eats a bolt once he resolves, but I still swing in for 4 with my utility guys. He makes an ape, but my SGC through the vial lives just long enough to clear away the pesky lavamancer, and fling himself at Tony in response to grim’s reprisal. Another SCG in my hand tells me I have enough to win with two swings so long as he doesn’t have a land + fire/ice, and then he’s hellbent against my army of 1/1s. He doesn’t and I swarm for the win.

-4 lackey -3 earwig squads, +4 relic, +3 mad auntie

He is on the play and decides to mull, so I keep my hand of badlands, vial, relic, wierding, auntie, matron, chieftain, being on the draw with my cantrip-hate in hand to supplement vial should I really need to make a second land drop. He leads with a Savannah ‘go’, and I draw a ringleader and make my vial. He answers with a PRIDEMAGE, and I frown as I do not draw a land my second draw step, and sadly make my relic. He plays a second pridemage and swings four before destroying my hopes and dreams. I draw a non-land for the thrid time in a row, pop relic, and don’t see another land. He makes another dude and we’re off to game three.

Turn two banneret into a turn three chieftain, edict his goyf is followed by a turn four auntie, chieftain to bring him down to one life and a single mongoose on board. Hasty SGC and friends turn five for 19 additional power seals it.

1-0 matches, 2-1 games

Round 2: Vs. Kyle with Zoo

He wins the die roll and mulls once into the best possible hand of 6: 2x fetch, 2x grim, 2x goyf, and draws something like bolt, rift bolt, fireblast. We go to game two.

-4 lackey -3 earwig squads, +4 relic, +3 mad auntie

I lead with a vial, and he makes a kird ape. I bump up vial, play banneret, and pass. He fails to play a second land, swings 2, and makes a second ape. I waste his Tiaga, make a matron for auntie, and offer the trade with my banneret. He does, and fails to play a land for the next few turns while my goblins become much bigger than his 1/1 kird ape.

Game three he fetches a taiaga, and leads with an ape once again. I make a vial, and we repeat the last game ala him not playing a second land turn two, and me wasting it my next turn. He doesn’t hit another land, and goblins do as goblins does.

2-0 matches, 4-2 games

Round 3: Vs Jon with mono-U Merfolk (his list cut spell snare for 3 merfolk sovereigns)

Game one I lead with lackey, which resolves and is not faced down by a rebuttal cursecatcher. Turn two I make a banneret, and swing in for two, dumping in a SGC with the lackey trigger. He makes a mutavault and passes, and I play my wasteland, chieftain resolves, then waste his muta to come in for 15 turn three.

-4 lackey, + 3 auntie, +1 sharpshooter

It’s his turn to god-draw me, and he leads with turn one cursecatcher into turn two LOA into turn three reejery, daze matron, sovereign for the win.

-3 earwig squad, -1 wierding, +4 lackey

I do the turn one lackey, but he has a cursecatcher for it this time, but no force/daze for my wierding on it, and lackey and SGC hold hands and skip to victory.

3-0 matches, 6-3 games.

Round 4: Vs Nathan with Canadian Thresh (running 4 goyf, 4 goose, 1 clique)

He is on the play, and makes a turn one goose off a trop. I throw a lackey into a counter (wanting to resolve the vial in hand), which doesn’t happen, so I suspect the fire/ice. He essentially admits to having it when he attacks with goose and does not follow with a goyf second main to go with his volc. I attack into the fire, and second main play a wasteland, vial, waste his trop. He ponders, and not finding a second green source, shuffles and plays a waste of his own, attacking for one. I bump vial up to one, and fetch my basic swamp while his blue source is tapped, then run a banneret into a daze. He replays the volc and goose turns sideways. I tap vial while still inside attackers, but he doesn’t show me the stifle I was looking for, and vial’s ability only wishes it could drop a one mana guy in to block the 1/1 goose. I make my third land drop with vial at two, and attempt a mad auntie, which eats a bolt endstep. He continues to whiff on drawing green sources, and the goose comes in again with six cards in the bin. After attacks, I offer him thresh by tapping vial at two, but he doesn’t bite, and I again don’t have any creatures to match the counters. I finally get going with vial’s ability again resolving at three, and matron hits the table next turn, but he does have the stifle for the enters the battlefield trigger. I finally take three from the goose, and an ineffective ringleader (via another stifle) teams up with matron to team block his threshed goose. He doesn’t have a bolt or fire, and the table is clear for a turn. He finally brainstorms into a goyf, but has to tap both of his blue sources to make the goyf that turn, and I take the opportunity to make a SGC through the vial, and play a waste on my turn to kill his newly acquired green source. SGC and goyf have a staring match during his turn and his endstep my second SGC meets his THIRD stifle. After I resolve a ringleader on my turn revealing matron, ringleader, I decide that the odds of him having/drawing a bolt at this point are slim, and the team comes in and loses one commander. The next swing SCG throws himself at Nate, leaving him at just enough a life total for me to finish him off despite one of my guys being countered.

-4 lackey -3 earwig squads, +4 relic, +3 mad auntie

He leads with a cantrip, and I take the opportunity to fetch a black source and ready my warren wierding. He makes a goyf, and I make a vial. He fails to make a second guy, and doesn’t have the force, which is most unfortunate for him, as I again go wateland, daze-proof spell, waste green source. He recovers his green mana much faster this time, but alas only to drop a mongoose, which is outraced by my auntie + chieftain. Late in the game, after the board is reduced to threshed goose on his side, untapped auntie, tapped chieftain on my side, his calls a judge over for tea and crumpets. (they were at it a while, but I feel that the judge may have mis-ruled here, as he seemed to have absolutely no idea how humility worked ala a bad call made earlier about ‘CiP triggers trigger, but the creature has no ability when it resolves’) Anyhow, Nathan strides confidently back to the table and practically windmills a pyroclasm onto the board. Barring something like a sudden shock on chieftain, I use the priority to put a regen shield on chieftain, as auntie wasn’t planning on blocking anyhow. “Resolves,” says I... and he pauses and allows me time to bin my team, which I and the game rules had no inclination to do. He facepalms, and I win shortly thereafter.

4-0 matches, 8-3 games.

Round 5: Vs X-1 with Aggro loam.

I didn’t have any big plans of losing ratings points to a random devastating dreams, so we both are happy to tie into the top eight. We use the time to watch Rich (who eventually faced my in the finals and won the tournament with zoo sporting KotR) get paired down and win a game he shouldn’t to an opponent who missed at LEAST three blind counterbalance triggers, on swords, knight of the reliquary, and krosan grip sequentially. I wish I could say he knew the top cards via a brainstorm/ponder effect and just didn’t want to reveal them, but that was not the case, and Rich’s opponent was able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

4-0-1 matches, 8-3 games

Quarterfinals: Vs Jacob playing mono-U merfolk (traditional list with 4-4-2 LOA, Reejery, Wakethrasher with snares, standstills, relics, and jittes)

Jacob and I drove up together, and have been playing legacy together on a team for years, so we have fun with this match. Game one he forgets to force a lord, but his deck forgives him, nad he gets the vial, LOA, Reejery, vial in LOA, Reejery draw.

-4 wierding, -3 Earwig squad, +3 goblin tinkerer + 3 auntie, +1 sharpshooter

I kill his jitte early with a chieftain into tinkerer which are both destroyed by the five BEB effects out of the board. I manage to vial in a matron at a later end step for my singleton lightning crafter while he has only a vial on board. He allows me to untap with vial, move it to four, and on my ENDSTEP, he goes “BEB your matron,” and I respond with vial into champion matron. Whoops on Jacob, that was supposed to happen in the opposite order and be a 2-1 the OTHER way.

Despite Jacob’s incredible luck, charisma, and strategic planning, I manage to fight an uphill battle to finally emerge the victor. It should be noted that merit determined the victor, and it CERTAINLY was not the field of fast red decks who had already finished their quarterfinal matches that determined who would progress into the top four.

5-0-1 matches, 10-4 games

Semifinals: Vs ____ with burn.

The lifetotals/notepads for the top four matches were lost in the chaos of escaping from Michigan back to Ohio, and I cannot remember much other than this and the following match were close, and everyone in the top four was happy with the results.

6-0-1 matches 12-4 games

Finals: Vs Rich with KotR zoo

6-1-1 matches, 12-6 games

Rich really cared about his DCI rating, so I’m glad he took a few points from my meager 1850s rating. Good for him. At least I’m glad the top four all walked away happy. You wouldn’t expect that with the proposed prize distribution of:

1st: NM Unlimited Mox Sapphire
2nd: NM Revised Underground Sea
3rd-8th: $5 store credit (!!!!!!)

Who knows how I walked away with a set of forces, the burn player walked away with two goyfs and two fetches to work on goyfsleigh, as did Rich and his affinity-wielding opponent leave with similar prizes. The tournament ended by DCI guidelines, and the DCI certified judge okayed everything.

Notes on the deck:

I continue to be pleased with frogtosser over warchief, as in hands you rely on a warchief effect to get you there, turn two frogtosser into turn three matron for edict, edict -or- chieftain/auntie, edict your goyf, swing 2-4 -or- turn three daze-proof matron into turn four daze-proof ringleader is soooooo much better than turn three warchief, go.

Chieftain performed very well, making SGC much, much scarier than before, and turning armies of utility dorks into scary hordes with haste. Auntie was incredible at holding the ground in situations where the deck needed to play defense and grind out card advantage before going on the offensive, and then transitioned well into the offensive role, allowing you to swing with important players like SGC and chieftains without fear of losing them post-combat.

I never drew earwig squad, but I was lucky in that I never had to go up against any of the four landstill decks in attendance, as I would have wished to have them against all the MD humilities and moats in the room. I still maintain the cards’ place in the MD, as both a shot against combo/decks packing ‘I win’ cards main, and as a sizeable alternative to driver who can BLOCK and trade with goyf, as well as being unreal with mad auntie.

The meta for magus of the moon was there, but I happened to play against non-basic packing decks that ran 6-12 red removal spells main. Again, had I played against any of the landstill decks or Ugb/ Ugw thresh decks there, I would be glad to have had these in the sideboard.

Props:
The physical size and inventory of ‘Get Your Game On,’ (the venue) it’s not often you see all the duals, fetches, playsets of forces in the case alongside original NES, SNES, and SEGA consoles and cartridges.

All my friends that made the trip up with me, for those of us that didn’t do well, we all learned something about our decks that will hopefully lead to more top8s in the future.

Burger King and the Jr. Whopper, for being the sweetest victory availible for under a dollar.

Wasteland, for single-handedly winning me two matches.

Slops:
Michigan in general. It rained nearly the entire time while we were going to and at the tournament, and the fast-food shops charge tax on to go items. $1.06 menu?!?! WTF!

The disparity in the prize structure, and prizes for 2nd-8th remaining a mystery until we had arrived at the venue. It’s nice that they upgraded the played mox to a NM one with the attendance above the desired threshold, but a prize structure of:
1st: GD Mox
2nd: U Sea, delta
3rd: Trop, strand
4th Taiga, foothills

would have been better IMO, and people who played seven rounds of magic to finish third in a 30+ person tournament wouldn’t get screwed walking away with 25% of their entry fee because they happened to have a bad draw against burn or affinity. If having decent top8 prize support is really that much of a profit concern, at least give out some packs, or up the entry fee by $5 and make the whole top8 happy with their prize rather than just the top2. Also, no door prizes, what gives?!?!

My team mates, for playing unfamiliar decks and not knowing what their cards do. Reading is savage tech, as is knowing your own deck evidently.

Tacosnape
08-10-2009, 10:22 PM
This is very interesting. I was just thinking of eliminating Piledriver earlier today and what it would do to the deck. Looks like you beat me to it.

No Warchief, though? Did you decide to just split his job between Frogtosser and Chieftain? How did it work having the acceleration a hair earlier?

EDIT: No Port, world. See? It's NOT NECESSARY.

TeenieBopper
08-10-2009, 10:47 PM
This is very interesting. I was just thinking of eliminating Piledriver earlier today and what it would do to the deck. Looks like you beat me to it.

EDIT: No Port, world. See? It's NOT NECESSARY.

1. I told you so.

2. I told you so.

Tacosnape
08-10-2009, 10:49 PM
1. I told you so.

2. I told you so.

Fair, although I haven't committed to eliminating Piledriver (Reducing him, possibly though.)

GreenOne
08-11-2009, 05:49 AM
Rb versions are quite different from monored ones. Piledriver is surely not great (even if it's got better with Merfolk on the rise), but there are probably not better choices in red only. I like earwig, but I think 2 is probably enough, and a single piledriver would be better.

I don't get the choice of Crafter. What's up with that? Are you sure this is better than Warchief/Wort/Auntie/Piledriver?

The lack of warchief is killing me. Even with Frogtosserer in the deck, there should be a place for at least other 2 Warchief. I'm actually playing with 4 Warchiefs and 2 Chieftains, and 6 haste enablers are huge.

Waikiki
08-11-2009, 07:10 AM
whats up with cycle goblin, I always loved it.

Slots I like to get some explanation for are:

Boggert aunti
Mad aunti
Lightning crafter

also the lack of:

warchief
incinerator
piledriver

KrzyMoose
08-11-2009, 08:37 AM
Just a quick note, I played the CounterTop guy in round 3. I got paired down against Merfolk in round 5.

But yes, he could have at least tried to Counterbalance my Path to Exile (not Swords), but I was pretty much just throwing it out there as bait to make sure my Choke resolved. So, I didn't really care whether Path resolved or not. As it turned out, he didn't have any three drops. His real mistake was tapping out to play Meddling Mage (on something irrelevant) and Tarmogoyf in the same turn - that let me just untap, drop a land, and play Choke with an extra mana open.

He wasn't even close to victory, to be honest, as he had approximately zero outs to Choke. (And an even more minor nitpick, I didn't play Knight of the Reliquary until several turns after I had already dropped Choke and Grip'ed his Counterbalance).

Good report, though. I hope you Columbus guys can come up for the next event!

(Though, for the record: Fuck the Buckeyes).

*edit* Also, yeh, the prizes were a little wierd. But, my argument to that is this: just win the tournament. That way, you don't have to worry about it. ^_^

GYGO is an awesome store, though. Usually the prizes are a bit better and more spread out.

Nessaja
08-11-2009, 09:11 AM
EDIT: No Port, world. See? It's NOT NECESSARY.
First off, Rb, second one tournament doesn't make something correct.
Edit: No Gemstone Caverns, world. See? It's NOT NECESSARY.

Your list is seriously odd, even for an Rb list

No Goblin Wachief and no Piledrivers. The Piledrivers, okay, but no Warchief is just weird.

Media314r8
08-11-2009, 02:29 PM
@ Lightning crafter:
I really like to have a maindeck out to jitte in any goblins build, and as most things holding jitte are usually x/3s or smaller, crafter got the nod over maindecked tinkerer as he also serves as an additional out against moat, and comes in though the vial to 'save' other goblins, sometime with re-usable EtB effects. Incredible in the mirror and against other tribal decks.

@ No drivers: I've resigned to having a slightly slower 'god draw' and cut the drivers MD for squads, who serve the same goal of trading with goyf, but do when when you're on the backpedal instead of only while attacking. Perhaps one should be somewhere between the main and the side, but I haven't missed him much since the breakup. Squad, as stated in report, aslo rips out annoyances such as humility, moat, plagues, and infrequently, all of your opponent's ways to win. (I'm looking at you enchantress (without an early elephant grass))

@ No warchiefs: As you can see in my games and my afterthoughts on the deck, having the '1 less' effect come down turn two instead of turn three is so incredibly relevant, and I don't think having six haste-granters is necessary outside of mono-red with goons and drivers.

@ No incinerator: Warren wierding kills goyfs every day. Gempalm would only ever kill a goyf in a situation when you are already leagues ahead. Gempalm has always felt strained to 'just' kill the creature you need most to die, and a swords/bolt/fire on your guys in response not getting incinerator there is very rough. IMO as slow as, if not slower than, lightning crafter. It does cantrip, is not re-usable, and both have the potential to have in-response removal be game-breaking, but in a gamestate where you would be incinerating, crafter will likely have SOMETHING left to champion, as the ability doesn't target.

@ Mad aunite: She was incredible all day, and I tutored for the MD one at least twice, and used the regen effect to protect an attacking chieftain from a threshed goose, as well as to stall the ground on D.

@ Wort: I never drew her, but in past experiences she has done things from recurring chumping matrons to recurring edicts/SGCs to winning a neigh-unwinable game where my Ugb thresh opponent had 2 e plagues in play, and she would swing in for 1 fear-like, and prowl an earwig squad each turn. (who would exile the other two plagues, then start on my opponent's creature base after subsequently blocking an attacking goyf)

EDIT: I haven't tested with 2 gemstone caverns yet, but port saps too much of my colored mana base, which needs RR for cheiftain, often in the same turn it attempts to play other spells. Running 6-8 colorless lands with the color requirements of RB goblins is a major nonbo.

Waikiki
08-11-2009, 05:59 PM
I always find gempalm to rule vs confidant/lavamancer/combat tricks and working under standstill aswell

As a side question. Does prowl also get reduced by frogtosser or warchief?

Mark Sun
08-11-2009, 06:48 PM
Props:
All my friends that made the trip up with me, for those of us that didn’t do well, we all learned something about our decks that will hopefully lead to more top8s in the future.

Burger King and the Jr. Whopper, for being the sweetest victory availible for under a dollar.


Two truths, and well said. Was a pretty fun trip overall, and I'm looking forward to more.

My (irrelevant) mini-report is in the Landstill thread.

I'm surprised I didn't see the mirror the entire time, there were seas of tokens/Elspeths/etc running around. Of course the kryptonite for the whole day... Price of Progress :frown: Speaking of,


I hope you Columbus guys can come up for the next event!

(Though, for the record: Fuck the Buckeyes).

LOL. I hope my Ohio State polo at least made a good impression... :wink:

Nessaja
08-11-2009, 07:34 PM
As a side question. Does prowl also get reduced by frogtosser or warchief?
Yes

jakolhops
08-11-2009, 08:30 PM
I was the burn player. Man that was a close game in the top 4 eh? Either way i was happy that for y 1.5 hour car ride and 20$ i walked away with 3 foothills and 2 goys

ScatmanX
08-12-2009, 05:31 PM
The meta for magus of the moon was there, but I happened to play against non-basic packing decks that ran 6-12 red removal spells main. Again, had I played against any of the landstill decks or Ugb/ Ugw thresh decks there, I would be glad to have had these in the sideboard.

Wouldn´t Blood Moon be superior tu Magus of the Moon in ths case, since it is not removed by burn? Or being Krosan Griped (Pridemage´d) is too much of a drawback?

Media314r8
08-12-2009, 05:35 PM
Wouldn´t Blood Moon be superior tu Magus of the Moon in ths case, since it is not removed by burn? Or being Krosan Griped (Pridemage´d) is too much of a drawback?

being vialed in against the decks that play Ux such as landstill, ITF, thresh varients, ect. is more relevant than being burn proof IMO.

ScatmanX
08-12-2009, 06:02 PM
Agreed.

Mantis
08-13-2009, 06:40 AM
Congratulations, beating two Zoo players in a row is impressive.

The deck you designed is very interesting, I guess I would try something similair if I were in a metagame filled with Zoo. As it is, there are a lot of Coatls and Merfolk decks where I am from making Piledrivers and Incinerators necessary.

GGoober
08-13-2009, 12:43 PM
I've always been a fan of multiple Earwig Squads. It gives you that slight edge over:

Thresh: take 3 Goyfs out
Landstill: take mass-removal out
Combo: take out win-conditions (this is the biggest reason to run Squad. Together with Seize/Therapy/Wastelands, you should have no problem)

I'm not too keen on dropping Piledriver, but I think your list is in the right direction of a non-Piledriver build. If you drop Piledriver, then Warchief dropped is justifiable. Dropping either one but the other doesn't justify it. This list takes a bold move, but I like the idea, which I think Media probably agrees with me:

The cut for Piledriver was simply because the deck needed to win outside of board advantage. If you're amassing a board of goblins, you should be winning, so Piledriver is win-more in more cases. This is argued against since speed is important for this deck to steal wins, and hence this is a reason to reconsider why Piledriver isn't dropped.

If Piledriver is cut, then Warchief follows naturally (only if Frogtosser is ran). We still need a cost-reduction effect and having Frogtosser is as good, and the fact that it's a 2-drop is really nice. The cut for both Piledriver and Warchief is now justified, but to justify the lack of firepower, Chieftain acts as a Warchief that pumps your goblins. I actually like this because Squads are now 6/4, which can trade with a 5/6 Goyf, and many goblins survive or can push through. Piledriver builds tend to be reliant on piledriverse to push in with an army, often leading to multiple x-for-1s (e.g. you swing with a field for lethal hoping that the Goyf blocks the piledriver. Your thresh opponent StP Piledriver and chumps your next best 2/2 e.g. Warchief. You proceed to lose your field). With Media's build, you can swing in with multiple Squads or just go with 1 Squad beatdown, beating like a Goyf, and forcing your opponent to do something.

I however, think that as a Goblin player, you need to play at least 7 Waste/Port. It's the reason why this deck can abuse and go through. Double-red is the bane to the manabase but you have to be somewhat greedy if you're playing with one of the most greedy aggro decks out there.

I'm still debating on cutting both Piledrivers and Warchiefs. You lose speed, but you have a much better board-control matchup. A single Squad can recover from a wrath, but a Piledriver is uselss by himself. This is something that I noticed in the deck that is a weakness of goblins. Goblins is strong together, but once you deal with a few key cards (warchilef/Lackey) it becomes the worst aggro tribal deck.

I think this is the train of thought Media has, at least it's mine when I think about the list and refer to an old list that I built (very similar, no piledrivers) but discarded because of a lack of testing/experience playing goblins.

Media314r8
08-13-2009, 05:14 PM
I however, think that as a Goblin player, you need to play at least 7 Waste/Port. It's the reason why this deck can abuse and go through. Double-red is the bane to the manabase but you have to be somewhat greedy if you're playing with one of the most greedy aggro decks out there.


Mono Red and Rg can support 6 (or possibly 7) colorless lands, as Rg only needs g for tin street and grips post-board, but RB really cannot afford to have so many colorless producing lands, as having dead chieftains/edicts in your hand is much worse than occasionally screwing an opponent who is having mana difficulties out of the game with port. If you are attempting to play around a back to basics or price of progress, having to fetch your splash and then having less red sources inherantly (as well as a lower number of basics to draw/fetch) hurts a lot.

luckymartyr
08-18-2009, 02:22 PM
Good report. I was the aggro loam player that lost first round in the top 8. Couldnt agree more with respect to the prize structure and sometimes you just lose to affinity even with access to shattering spree. Wouldve at least liked my entry fee back. Looking forward to the next event although I will in all liklihood skip the vintage event just do to lake of experience and the fact that Brian DeMars lives in Michigan.:laugh:

ScatmanX
09-12-2009, 08:59 PM
Why did you sided out Warren Weirdings agains´t Merfolk in the quarterfinals, but not agains´t the other one you played? Is it because of Spell Snares?

Didn´t you missed removal there? And what about Piledriver?
Seems that Round 3 you just won because game 1 and 3 you had 1st turn Lackey.

Do you still think that siding out Lackey on the draw is a good idea? You think that the same will be truth for Instigator? Making the opponent NEED to hold back a creature isn´t good enought to warrent them the Slot (like Taco argued in the Soblin thread)?
Well, hope I made my questions clear. =)

Media314r8
09-14-2009, 02:08 PM
Why did you sided out Warren Weirdings agains´t Merfolk in the quarterfinals, but not agains´t the other one you played? Is it because of Spell Snares?

Didn´t you missed removal there? And what about Piledriver?
Seems that Round 3 you just won because game 1 and 3 you had 1st turn Lackey.

Do you still think that siding out Lackey on the draw is a good idea? You think that the same will be truth for Instigator? Making the opponent NEED to hold back a creature isn´t good enought to warrent them the Slot (like Taco argued in the Soblin thread)?
Well, hope I made my questions clear. =)

One merfolk build had mutavaults, the other I didn't see any non-basics from (I assume he had back to basics main), and warren wierding is absolutely the goggles against unatpped lands with a mutavault on the other side of the table. I had crafter and sharpshooter post-boards as removal, and won via attrition and CA.

Round 3 I won more due to wasteland on his green sources and tempo thresh running wastes in addition to only 8-10 threats. Vial + waste won me the game 3, and against tempo thresh, with 3-7 bolts/fires (and usually firespout/fallout/pyroclasm), lackey is hardly wins games by himself.

I stand by my decision to board out lackeys on the draw against decks with many answers to him, especially decks packing burn and or sweepers. I agree with Taco in that part of lackey's power is the fear he strikes into opponents, but this is more true for CB and thresh decks (packing 8-12 threats generally), whereas zoo and merfolk play 20ish creatures and some combination of burn/bounce/jitte. All these spell bad news for lackey, and he loses power as the game goes on as your opponent will have more and more ways to deal with him. If you are forced to go to the long game or play defensively, lackey is often (but not allways, sometimes they just dont have a burn spell/counter, and you have an edict/scourger/incinerator for their blocker) better replaced by more lord effects, sharpshooter, ect.