[Jupiter Games] 11th with Canadian Thresh

[freakish777]

So, I drive to Syracuse, and pick up Arun (Source name Marit), he's a majoring in Civil Engineering at SU.

Anyways, on the way to Binghamton he says he's playing Rats, and has a couple spots to fill in his maindeck and is thinking about playing Recurring Nightmare. I tell him to play Volrath's Stronghold instead.

So we get to Jupiter games.


4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Wasteland

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire/Ice
1 Rushing River

4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Daze
4 Stifle

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose


3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
4 Submerge
1 Rushing River

Originally I had 4 Crypts, and 3 Blue Elemental Blasts, but after a little scouting and seeing there was easily more than 125 people (and we're in for 8 rounds) I switched the Red Elemental Blasts and took out a Crypt.

Round 1, Dillon with some form of GWB Rock.

Game 1 he makes a bunch of Kitchen Finks, and succeeds at getting rid of Goyfs. I lose.

Game 2, I beatdown with Goose, he must not have kept creatures in play for more than a turn because my life total goes to 16 all from my fetches.

Game 3, we go back and forth. This game is very similar to game 1 except I have the FoWs to keep Goyfs around.


Round 2, Bryant.

I don't draw Force of Will. This is the fastest match of the day.


Round 3, Matt playing Ichorid.

He mulls to 6, my opening hand is double Force of Will, fetch, Goyf, Ponder, blue card. Pretty nuts hand.

He opens with Careful Study off Cephalid Colesium, I FoW.
I ponder into land #2.
He plays Breakthrough (misses land drop), I FoW.
By the time he gets another land to play Putrid Imp (only a couple turns) I've top decked Force of Will #3.

Game 2 my opening hand is:

Fetchland
Tormod's Crypt
Tormod's Crypt
Goyf
Goyf
Goyf
Force of Will.

Thanks deck! He didn't open a hand with Pithing Needle, so he goes to hard casting some Narcomoebas, I eventually draw Fire/Ice to stop that and crash in with Goyfs.

Round 4, Eric, mirror match, almost

Game 1.
He ponders on turn 1.
I play Goose on turn 1, he Dazes, I Daze back.
I counter all his guys from then on, Goose takes it home.

Game 2, I mull to 6, my hand is Forest, Nimble Mongoose, bunch of stuff I can't cast. It's an incredibly weak hand, but it seems better hoping to draw a blue source than to mull to 5.

Game 3.
I play turn 1 Goose.
He plays turn 1 Goose. I Force of Will. He Force of Wills. I Force of Will back. My hand at this point is something like Wasteland and a blue card (I want to say Ponder).
He replays his Trop.
I wasteland.
He doesn't draw lands (and is pretty upset).
Goose wins.

Round 5, Ray Robillard playing Planeswalkers

This match is a blow out both games. Ray plays mana, removes my guys, and drops bombs. That simple.

Round 6, John playing Natural Order Elves!

Game 1, I get overrun by a million little guys who suddenly have +1/+1. I did have double Goyf and attempted to race getting him to 8.

Game 2, he doesn't keep guys on the board since my life total indicates all the life loss I experience is self inflicted from fetches and FoW. Pyroclasm and Fire/Ice are a beating for him.

Game 3, I manage to counter and kill the important creatures but cannot find Pyroclasm. I'm racing with Goyf, and he's cracking back with 3 mana elves. At some point I have to stop attacking with Goyf, my notes are really sloppy on this game without what sources of damage are. All I know is I wind up winning, in the position he's been drawing a 1/1 each turn to throw under the tarmo-bus while I have FoW, I finally draw a blue card (Spell Snare, I would have preferred Ponder to try and find Pyroclasm), his turn you plays another creature, I FoW. I rip Bolt, I crack in, he chumps (he has 4 mana Elves at this point I think). He swings for 2, leaving 1 back to block. I untap, Bolt his blocker, and swing putting him on 4 I believe. Basically I need to kill him or force him to block before he finds Natural Order. His deck finally wiffs giving him creatures. I swing, he goes to 1 mana elf. He wiffs again. I swing he blocks, from here I can't lose.


Round 7, Phil from Team Unicorn, playing Ug Merfolk

Game 1
We both get some Tarmogoyfs that stare at each other until he can find Lord of Atlantis and dudes. Frowntown. I can has Sideboard now?!

Game 2
I manage to keep his Goyfs off the board this time, and smash face.

Game 3, I end up mana screwing him pretty hard. Eventually I have something like 5 guys in play, he's on 13, crash in, he makes blocks, and I Bolt him out. Here my notes were much better, he had thought he would end up on 4, I pointed out that he missed either 1 of his 2 Fetches or his Force of Will
(the other 4 points of damage being Tarmogoyf).

Round 8, Will, the mirror (I don't have notes on this one, so it might be wrong)

Game 1.
Make Goose. Trade with Goose.
Keep him off Green.
Make Goose, and make sure he resolves.
Win from there.

Game 2.
Make Goose on turn 1.
He plays Goyf, it resolves.
I untap, play Wasteland, Submerge his Goyf (holding FoW back up, which I don't have to use which is good). Wasteland his Tropical.
Win from there with my 1/1 (who at some point becomes a 3/3).


I end up with 4 Judge Foil Bloodstained Mires.

Afterwards. Team Unicorn lets me crash at their hotel room. Arun rides back with Team Epic and the Birthday Boy. Beastman is bombed. We watch some awful straight to cable TV movie called Biker Boyz starring Laurence Fishburne as Ghost. It's hella tight and baller yo! You wanna slow yo roll? Alix and other unicorns who went to the bar return, Beastman proceeds to do David Gearheart Impersonations. Vodka and Tonic Water is involved somewhere in here, and it's disgusting. Then a bunch of candy gets thrown around. Someone wakes up Kreiger (a couple of times), which I'm sure he wasn't to happy about.

10AM.

I wake up, take a piss. As I'm washing my hands Mike Keller is knocking on the door. We're accompanied by Phil down to the Days Inn breakfast and grab some bagels (Zach, your people are awesome, but cheap bagels are not awesome, edible and get the job done without costing me any money, but not awesome).

I peace out around 11:10 AM, and tell Phil to thank the rest of the Unicorns for the invite to crash at their hotel.

I get 100% lost on the way back. Like, I don't get on 81 North to Syracuse. Fuck it. I take NY State roads and random County roads North and West based on the compass in my dashboard. I manage to get back by 3pm.

Apparently NY State is gorgeous. Who knew?

[kabal]

Game 2, I mull to 6, my hand is Forest, Nimble Mongoose, bunch of stuff I can't cast. It's an incredibly weak hand, but it seems better hoping to draw a blue source than to mull to 5.


First of congrats ...

Based on that comment, would you run the basics again? Did you find 20 lands too many?

[freakish777]

Did you find 20 lands too many?

Absolutely not.


Based on that comment, would you run the basics again?

I don't see why not. That was 1 game where I mulled to 6. Considering this was the mirror and I was on the draw, there's probably a fairly significant chance he could untap and Ponder/Brainstorm into a Wasteland if he wasn't already holding it. Obviously I'm still testing, but it seems having a basic Forest at the very least can be a positive to ensure you have outs against:

Wasteland + Crucible/Loam
Choke
Blood Moon
Back to Basics

I didn't get the chance to ask after the game if he had Wasteland in hand that game (as there's no reason for him to reveal that he has it, until he has a target), which actually would have meant I had a shot that game if I drew a blue source (as opposed to none after getting blown out by getting my only land blown up).

[beastman]

Nice job on the tournament. My Gearhart impersonations are savage. (see what I did there?)

[Enigma]

Congratz! 11th place is so nice with this price structure!


I untap, play Wasteland, Submerge his Goyf (holding FoW back up, which I don't have to use which is good). Wasteland his Tropical.

You probably meant Submerge and then untap, because this doesn't work as you can only Submerge when he has a forest.

But whatever, you played well, had those hands with creatures that makes you win and some graveyard hate that made possible a win against an almost unwinnable match.

Good job.

P-M

[freakish777]

You probably meant Submerge and then untap, because this doesn't work as you can only Submerge when he has a forest.


No I meant, I untapped (to play around Daze). I played Wasteland, without activating it (in case of double Daze, in which case I have to FoW the Goyf when he replays since my Wasteland will be tapped). Then I played Submerge (so he still has a forest). Then I activated Wasteland.

It was definitely nice to have a prize worthwhile to play out 3 more rounds after being 3-2.

[Zach Tartell]

Needs more props/slops. And then I need at least two bullets in each.

[Obfuscate Freely]

Congrats again, Dave, and I'm glad you were able to hang out with us, afterwards.

I agree that Vodka tonics are lame, though. In the future, I'm definitely going to bring some damn whiskey or gin.

I get 100% lost on the way back. Like, I don't get on 81 North to Syracuse. Fuck it. I take NY State roads and random County roads North and West based on the compass in my dashboard. I manage to get back by 3pm.

Apparently NY State is gorgeous. Who knew?
That actually sounds pretty awesome.

[Whit3 Ghost]

How often do you drop Wasteland turn one on the play? I know you beat me 2-0 and your manascrewing me went the distance (though it was far more of my own land and color screw rather than a disproportionate amount of mana-denial), but I can't believe that's the right play in the mirror, or ever really. Did you want to dodge Stifle? Did you see my hand and know that I was keeping a land-light grip?

Either way, grats on the finish and I'm sorry for being short with you after our match. I was not thrilled at not seeing Trops or Fetches at all.

[freakish777]

How often do you drop Wasteland turn one on the play?

I don't remember playing Wasteland turn one on the play at all the entire tournament. I definitely played it turn 1 on the draw to take out Tropical Island.

Basically, Wasting Trop before your opponent has the chance to play a threat in the mirror seems like the right call to me. The mirror is all about green and blue mana at the right times.

Yes, I wanted to dodge Stifle, no I did not see your hand.

Let's say your build runs 6 Fetches and 4 Tropical Islands as ways to make green (I'm guessing you're running 18 lands as opposed to 20). I don't remember if you played a fetch off the bat, or if it was just Trop, either way that leaves 8~9 green sources left in your deck, if you had Goose you would have played it (right?), that leaves you with Tarmogoyf. If you don't already have the green source in hand I'm making you do a lot of extra work to find it, and resolve an activation (if it's a fetch) and that extra work you do should be enough to put me over the edge. If you do already have it, then perhaps I should just play my land and pass the turn (leaving mana up for Stifle or Spell Snare). Or not. Not only do you need a second green source, you also need a 3rd land also, which seems unlikely if my guess that you're running 18 lands is correct. If you kept a 3 land hand, or otherwise ripped the 3rd land, that's 1 less non-land card that you have to fight the ensuing counter-war over Goyf (one less potential FoW/Daze, assuming you're tapping out for Goyf, to punch it through).

Ok, so worst case scenario for me, you kept 3 lands on the play, with Goyf, FoW, Ponder (was this your first turn play? I don't remember but I want to say it was) and some other blue card (and you Pondered into Daze). I waste your Trop, you untap, draw, play land #2 (let's say it's a fetch and your crack immediately to dodge Stifle, and you read that I don't have Waste #2, if you don't crack immediately then you have to worry about Stifle) and pass, I go, and am now am behind on tempo since you've played a Ponder and I've played nothing, right? So I play my land and pass (again needing Stifle or Spell Snare). If your last land is another fetch and I have Stifle, then you probably want to fight over that (if I have Daze or FoW back up I probably let it resolve and then fight over Goyf instead), if I don't have Stifle or it's not a fetch, then we just fight over Goyf. So your hand at this point with Goyf on the stack (in the worst case scenario) is Daze, FoW + Blue card. If you've got that hand I'm probably losing no matter what. If you don't have Goyf + 3 lands + FoW + Blue card + Ponder (and Ponder into Daze) then I probably have an advantage.

Wasteland is absurd in the mirror.

I would not necessarily have Wasted on turn 1 against a deck that wasn't the mirror.

If anyone sees problems with my logic for that play, let me know.

[Whit3 Ghost]

You wasted turn one on the play after I had dropped Goose. I had no play (my other land was a wasteland) and you played your own Goose on your turn 2.

[snorlaxcom]

Good games David. My eighth round was a bye and I ended up twenty first with Ug Merfolk. Don't have much experience with the deck but it seemed in our matchup I should have mulled into a vial. Enjoy your Prized Unicorn!


ps. Biker Boyz was the shiz!

[frogboy]

I don't remember playing Wasteland turn one on the play at all the entire tournament. I definitely played it turn 1 on the draw to take out Tropical Island.

Basically, Wasting Trop before your opponent has the chance to play a threat in the mirror seems like the right call to me. The mirror is all about green and blue mana at the right times.

Yes, I wanted to dodge Stifle, no I did not see your hand.

Let's say your build runs 6 Fetches and 4 Tropical Islands as ways to make green (I'm guessing you're running 18 lands as opposed to 20). I don't remember if you played a fetch off the bat, or if it was just Trop, either way that leaves 8~9 green sources left in your deck, if you had Goose you would have played it (right?), that leaves you with Tarmogoyf.

I have no idea, but I think the mana denial plan is pretty bad. I play 8-9 basics 2-3 duals and can't think of a hand where I would keep, play Trop, go, and be kold to Wasteland. I think people who keep hands of 2387423 cantrips and one land are idiots. Fetchland, go or fetchland, get basic, go, is just correct. Unless the hand was, like, Trop, Trop, Brainstorm, Tarmogoyf, Force of Will, Daze, Bolt, or something, that sequence wouldn't happen. You're behind if I open on Ponder because we're at parity and my hand is better than yours, and if I have Stifle you are probably crushed.

Granted most people are mouthbreathers who waltz into Stifle and Wasteland, but still.

[freakish777]

You wasted turn one on the play after I had dropped Goose. I had no play (my other land was a wasteland) and you played your own Goose on your turn 2.

Ok, your definition of "on the play" is different from mine. You played first that game, dropped Goose (which I didn't remember, but I'll take your word for it), then I drew my card and Wastelanded your Trop (my first play, however you played first that game, so I was "on the draw").

In any event, it's probable my hand didn't contain Spell Snare (to stop the aforementioned Goyf coming down next turn) or Stifle (to stop either your Wasteland or to stop a fetch to slow the Goyf play down for at least a turn) and I did want to play around Stifle and ensure Waste did it's job. Like I said, I'm fairly convinced the mirror is more or less about mana. Whoever can resolve and protect more guys wins (obviously) and without green and blue mana you can't do that (obviously). I don't think I'd ever really Wasteland a Volcanic Island in the mirror except in rare scenarios (they miss land drop number 2 and only have Volc out, in which case they're likely a bad player anyways).


@Frogboy, we're talking strictly the Canadian Thresh mirror here (so there's definitely not 8~9 basics, let alone that in both decks combined). I would not have made that play against an unknown deck.

[frogboy]

8-9 fetches, I mean. If your hand can't beat Tarmogoyf, mulliganing seems better than going for the hail mary mana denial plan.

[Whit3 Ghost]

I'm not paying attention and keep saying on the play when I mean on the draw or as your turn one play.

You're memories of games 1 and 2 are a little off.

I went Goose turn one, with Waste/cantrip/goodstuff in hand and didn't see another blue source after your Wasteland.

Game two saw us matching Geese early, you dropping two Wastelands as well as another Goose, submerging my Goyf, and it was over from there. I think I brainstormed into three green guys at one point when I needed the Trop.

I'm not saying that Wasteland isn't key in the matchup, as the matchup revolves around mana-denial and Geese; I'm saying that Wasteland turn one on the draw is not the right play because if they have any other relevant mana sources, you put yourself behind.

[frogboy]

I'm saying that Wasteland turn one on the draw is not the right play because if they have any other relevant mana sources, you put yourself behind.

Agree

[freakish777]

Ok, perhaps I need to test the mirror more.