Zombie help

[thebigkirbousky]

Hi guys I need some help building a deck for my casual play group. We stick to the following guidelines: mono colored and mostly legacy legal keeping banned cards to a min, nothing too crazy. The prominent decks played are; goblins, merfolk, berserk stompy, pox, muc, and a few other control decks.

I have always liked zombies, but have never been able to get a zombie deck off the ground. Here is my idea:

creatures:
4x carrion feeder
4x festering goblin
4x rotting rats
4x grave defiler
3x lord of the undead
3x undead warchief
3x khabal ghoul
3x vengeful dead
3x gempalm polluter

spells:
4x dark ritual
4x cabal therapy

artifact:
3x skullclamp

land:
16x swamp
2x lake of the dead


Quick notes on card choice
carrion feeder: sac creatures, pump
festering goblin: creature killer
grave defiler: bring out your dead
lord of the undead: recycle graveyard
undead warchief: bigger, cheaper zombies
khabal ghoul: lots of creatures going to graveyard= big ghoul
vengeful dead: 1 point of dmg per sac adds up
skullclamp: draw

I also considered cemetery reaper and death baron. I would like to use these, but I don't know if they fit.

This is just an off the top of my head list, I would really like to make a zombie deck that could make a showing against the above mentioned decks. Any ideas/advice welcome, thanks for taking the time to look!!

[syssc9]

Zombies are my favorite for casual multiplayer chaos FUN. You remember fun, right? The bigger the game, the better, although 5 players has always seemed an optimum number to me. The synergies in the Zombie tribe seem endless. You can even get away with a lot of otherwise dangerous (but very fun) "cool stuff" in a big casual game due to the generally slower nature of the venue.

Here's one of the Zombie lists I am running at the moment - it's not much like yours, but is offered in the spirit of sharing ideas:

4 Maggot Carrier (use to be Carrion Feeder, but replaced after rules changes)
4 Festering Goblin
4 Dregscape Zombie
4 Withered Wretch
4 Gempalm Polluter
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Lord of the Undead
4 Death Barron
2 Cemetary Reaper

4 Grave Pact

20 Swamp
2 Cabal Coffers

10 lords and bunch of small, cheap undead with decent abilities works pretty well for me. I never hard cast the Polluter - his cycling ability is just too good, so he really fits in the 2CC slot. Combo him with Lord of the Undead for extra cards and lots of life loss, as I am sure you already know. I think both should be 4 ofs, simply because they do so much for so little. Death Barron makes all your guys so deadly some opponents won't attack, and think twice about even blocking. If I have a Grave Pact in play it just gets worse. I attack with the little dudes (which don't stay little for long) and either do damage or send lots of creatures to the graveyard all around the table. My favorite "danger of cool stuff" play is to cast a Fleshbag with a Gravepact already on the board. I sac (replace, actually) one Zombie with another, while everyone else sacs 2 If the zombie I sac is a Dregscape, and I have just one more measly mana... FUN!

Of course this is all subject to other people’s removal, but with most things at 4, it usually doesn't matter. If others are playing lots of mass removal, I will often side in a set of Syphon Minds. They are absolutely nuts in a big game.

[thebigkirbousky]

I have been out of the game for a while; what rule cahnges are you reffering too? Thanks, and thanks for sharing your list.

[syssc9]

Damage no longer goes on the stack. You can't block with a creature, put it's damage on the stack, then sac it to somthing else like Carrion Feeder. If you do choose to sac, it's damage won't be deliverd. Damage now is dealt at the end of blocking - no stack involved.

[grahf]

Call to the Grave is pretty sick in a zombie deck; remember The Abyss? Although you could definitely draw some heat if you slap it down in a big multiplayer game. Also, Grave Defiler won't draw it... too bad it's not a zombie tribal enchantment, eh?

I'll second the Siphon Mind suggestion - definitely more game swinging than Rotting Rats.

Zombies are scary because of the massive amounts of creature pump they can bring to the table - even your little dorks can be 5/4's pretty easily.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

2 words. Aether. Vial.
Seriously that card is soooo good.

Also, take a page out of merfolks book and run the full 16 lords you can. Lots of lords are always a good thing.

[snorlaxcom]

I would cut lake of the dead for unholy grotto. Even from a wrath effect you can rebuild your board off a grotto and a lord, very annoying. Aether vial seems to be an auto-include as mentioned earlier because you have a higher curve and defiler is drawing you cards. Zombie Master can also fit in here and maybe a couple of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Rotting Rats seems very under whelming and Withered Wretch is probably the superior threat at two mana. Korlash would be house in here on top of Defiler card draw and Lord of the Undead recursion to re-Grandeur more swamps into play(meaning an autoinclude of two Leechridden Swamp!). I also like Shepard of Rot as he can really speed up games paired alongside the Vengeful dead and Polluter. The Fleshbag Marauder+Lord of the Undead is solid removal and adds to lifeloss with Vengeful Dead.

3 Mutavault would be great here and they have dropped a bit in price since T2, so they are pretty reasonable to obtain now.

I just noticed you have Skullclamp for additional CA, so this deck seems pretty solid for some casual.

[syssc9]

Here’s another, completely different take on Zombies. So far it is just a list without any actual game play. It grew out of my ‘other’ Zombie deck, which was basically a Zombie madness construction. I was always surprised how well that deck worked, considering how poorly Black did during the Madness era.

4 Bridge from Below
4 Quest for the Gravelord
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Festering Goblin
4 Putrid Imp
4 Grave Scrabbler
4 Undertaker
4 Gempaln Polluter
2 Nantuko Husk
4 Vengeful Dead

20 Swamp
2 Cabal Coffers

Be forewarned, this whole deck is a “danger of cool stuff” deck. The idea is to lay low for a few turns as you get a discard outlet and a sac outlet in play along with a few cheap zombies and hopefully Vengeful Dead. Then, attack with everything, then on the blocking phase discard a Bridge from Below, and sac everything that is about to die. You can stack the triggers so your stuff dies first (barring interference) usually giving you a bunch of 2/2 tokens for your 1/1’s and resulting in damage for ALL opponents via Vengeful Dead. You may then lose your Bridge if the blocking results in killing something on the other side, but that’s why you have 4! Grave Scrabbler and Undertaker will combo to get 2 creatures cards back for a mere 3, and if you also have Quest for the Gravelord in paly, COOL! Undertaker also combos great with the Polluter, etc.

That’s pretty much how the old Madness version worked. The major changes in this list are the Gravelord enchantments (they are the whole reason I am brainstorming this list - gotta get some!) instead of Call to the Netherworld and Husks instead of Brain Gorgers. It’s way fun to pull this or some close approximation off, and even if the whole group turns on you, usually you will have a bunch of tokens to block with, all of which can make a Carrion Feeder or Husk bigger and do more damage to the whole group. FUN!

[GenioDeArena]

Hi there, I have a couple of ideas to throw in the thread!!

First, I think also that the Polluter is amazing, so I thought of Sword of Light and Shadow to push him even further in the threat department with steady recursion and protection. Sword also helps to stymie the lifeloss from Shepperd of Rot wich id also a god addition.
As a casual player Ive found that many games eventually become ground stalemates, Wile the Polluter recursion itself is a solid plan, and the deathtouch lord also shines, why not run Gangrenous zombies with a snowswamp base?

Great deck BTW.

A.

[syssc9]

In the interveining months I have indeed done much of what you recomend. Vengeful Dead has been replaced by Gangrenous Zombies, and Zombie Barbarian replaced Nantuko Husk. That 2-of slot seems to go through continual change. I am never really satisfied with whatever I put there. Will have to try your recomendation of Sword of light and Shadow. I have pulled one Cabal Coffers and 3 swamps and replaced then with 2 Phyrexian Tower for additional sac ability and 2 Unholy Groto for more recursion. Half the remaining swamps are now snow covered.

Edit: Had to look up the Sword - extra recursion - great! And I think I have 2 at home in a binder. This may be just what that 2-off slot needs.

[MMogg]

2 words. Aether. Vial.
Seriously that card is soooo good.

Also, take a page out of merfolks book and run the full 16 lords you can. Lots of lords are always a good thing.

So, I'm wondering how "competitive" a casual deck with the above suggestion would be. If I were to put something like the following together:


4 Death Baron
4 Lord of the Undead
4 Cemetery Reaper
4 Undead Warchief

4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole

4 Wasteland
17 Swamp


would it work? Naturally, that's a very rough outline (and yes, still has about 6 open slots), but I'm wondering if the whole pile o' lords would work with this tribe. I'm considering picking up the Barons and Reapers since I can get them for about a buck each. Anyway, has anyone tried this type of configuration for Zombies before?

[daPaule]

So, I'm wondering how "competitive" a casual deck with the above suggestion would be.

6 open slots = Vial, Phyrexian Arena ? Also something like Disk isn't too bad either.

Considering the curve: Carnophage, Plaguebearer would help alot. A Lord @4Mana isn't that fast, although u're already playing Rituals.

So conclusion: Not very competive.

[MMogg]

6 open slots = Vial, Phyrexian Arena ? Also something like Disk isn't too bad either.

Considering the curve: Carnophage, Plaguebearer would help alot. A Lord @4Mana isn't that fast, although u're already playing Rituals.

So conclusion: Not very competive.

Hmm, yeah I was thinking the same thing. As for the curve, I kind of imagined the first two turns would be devoted to disruption anyway, with Duress, Hymn and Sinkhole, followed by a few lords. Vials might be a decent addition so that by turn 4, you could potentially have three creatures out.

If you were to add Vials, maybe add 4 Mutavaults as well, to benefit from the lords. Plaguebearer might be fun as well, not sure.

*sigh* Yeah, on paper it looks like fun, but it's probably too slow. Could always keep it to play against n00bs and scrubs.

[daPaule]

Hmm, yeah I was thinking the same thing. As for the curve, I kind of imagined the first two turns would be devoted to disruption anyway, with Duress, Hymn and Sinkhole, followed by a few lords. Vials might be a decent addition so that by turn 4, you could potentially have three creatures out.

If you were to add Vials, maybe add 4 Mutavaults as well, to benefit from the lords. Plaguebearer might be fun as well, not sure.


Imagine an rather optimal start with ritual and vial in hand you can disrupt your oppent while playing vial.
From there on u can also continue with doing both, casting creatures and disrupting.

If you would add sensei's top and exchange some of the basics with fetchies you can even get some kind of CQ, but i guess that's just an investment too big for a casual deck, money wise.

Anyhow, regarding the lords, are u considering them all equally ?
From my point of view it's more like: Death Baron > Undead Warchief > Lord of the Undead > Cemetery Reaper, although most played spot removal (StoP,PtE) will nullify Lord of the Undead's ability i guess it's still better than cemetery reaper's in most occasions. When facing Combo or Control you will trade one lord vs a vanilla zombie, doesn't sound too good.

Thus i would play something like:
4 Baron
3-4 Undead Warchief
2-3 Lord of the Undead
0-2 Cemetery
2 Plaguebearer
4 Carnophage
2-3 Withered Wretch
~18-20

3-4 Duress
4 Hymn
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Aether Vial
0-3 Sensei's Divining Top

0-7 fetchies
9-17 swamp
4 Wasteland

[MMogg]

Part of the problem was that I was wondering if a 16 lord configuration could in fact work and instead, the end result is a list without that focus :laugh:. I like your design, but I wonder about the loss of life with fetches, Arena and Carnophage. Let's say we hit 2 fetches, untap Carno twice and have Arena down for four turns (all pretty conservative estimates), that's a whopping 8 life.

I like the SDT and fetch idea (although my opponents probably won't :wink:). I'm going to test out various lists and see what happens. Thanks for the feedback.

[the Thin White Duke]

Like some of the other posters I'm questioning the definition of "casual" and how far you're willing to go power/money-wise with cards.
Regardless, might I suggest my favoritest of all zombies-RAWR- Helldozer!!
I'm also a big fan of Lake of the Dead but I usually have that in very aggro decks, so it depends on your style. And I also get a little sentimental about Lake...

[MMogg]

Like some of the other posters I'm questioning the definition of "casual" and how far you're willing to go power/money-wise with cards.
Regardless, might I suggest my favoritest of all zombies-RAWR- Helldozer!!
I'm also a big fan of Lake of the Dead but I usually have that in very aggro decks, so it depends on your style. And I also get a little sentimental about Lake...

Funny, the whole reason I became interested in zombies is because of the Planechase zombie deck and in that deck there's a Helldozer and against a slow deck like the other Planechase decks, it's an absolute wrecking ball. A turn 4 Helldozer with Dark Ritual help can really seal up a game as you slowly choke your opponent to death... metaphorically speaking.

I agree with the increasingly blurry line of casual/competitive. It becomes a slippery slope trying to power up a deck without making into some form of competitive Eva Green or Sui Black. For me, money isn't the issue, but fun is. Something like SDT+fetches probably makes the deck more consistent, but probably less fun than Helldozing your opponents into oblivion. :laugh: I suppose each person has to gauge the casual-competitive line based on who he/she is playing against.

[the Thin White Duke]

Funny, the whole reason I became interested in zombies is because of the Planechase zombie deck and in that deck there's a Helldozer and against a slow deck like the other Planechase decks, it's an absolute wrecking ball.

That's even funnier because I was originally going to suggest buying or using the Planechase deck as a template for a casual zombie deck. I think it is a very fun deck and a good starting off point for zombies.
And for more Helldozer fun...
Who can forget this gem?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3231-

(sorry for getting a bit off topic)

[MMogg]

That's even funnier because I was originally going to suggest buying or using the Planechase deck as a template for a casual zombie deck. I think it is a very fun deck and a good starting off point for zombies.
And for more Helldozer fun...
Who can forget this gem?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3231-

(sorry for getting a bit off topic)

LOL I never knew that deck/thread existed. Funny stuff.

The Planechase zombie deck is fun and by far the best of the four decks, but I think it plays too much like a Highlander deck. I think I will use it as a basis for building a zombie Highlander deck, but I wanted something a little more consistent for regular constructed casual, and I've loved the lords ever since Lord of the Undead from Planeshift. :smile:

Also, I'd love to try a Survival of the Fittest-Zombie type of deck.

[the Thin White Duke]

Also, I'd love to try a Survival of the Fittest-Zombie type of deck.
Survival Zombies!! That sounds awesome.
Back when Ravnica/Timespiral/Coldsnap were T2 had a wicked fun zombie deck. MVPs were Korlash and Haakon. Non-zombie stuff like Street Wraith and Dimir House Guard were great for draw/searching. I later morphed it into an even funner Mannequin deck when Lorwyn came into standard. Haakon is probably too limited for your deck, but Korlash can be pretty awesome for acceleration, face-beating, reanimation target, etc.
I've been having fun with Balthor the Defiled lately, he's one interesting option in a zombie build. Even more interesting with Survival...

[MMogg]

Survival Zombies!! That sounds awesome.
Back when Ravnica/Timespiral/Coldsnap were T2 had a wicked fun zombie deck. MVPs were Korlash and Haakon. Non-zombie stuff like Street Wraith and Dimir House Guard were great for draw/searching. I later morphed it into an even funner Mannequin deck when Lorwyn came into standard. Haakon is probably too limited for your deck, but Korlash can be pretty awesome for acceleration, face-beating, reanimation target, etc.
I've been having fun with Balthor the Defiled lately, he's one interesting option in a zombie build. Even more interesting with Survival...

I <3 Haakon, and want to make a Haakon Knight deck, but I don't think he suits this deck. I like Korlash, though, and I might add him.

I think a Survival zombie thread might need to be made after some building and testing. :laugh: There are so many possibilities for such a deck. Why am I suddenly in the mood to break out my George A. Romero DVDs?

[the Thin White Duke]

Why am I suddenly in the mood for BRAINS!!!

[MMogg]

Why am I suddenly in the mood for BRAINS!!!

I've actually eaten sheep's brains before. Nasty shit.

Thread successfully derailed. :laugh:

[MMogg]

4 Death Baron
4 Lord of the Undead
4 Cemetery Reaper
4 Undead Warchief

4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Phyrexian Arena

4 Wasteland
3 Mutavault
17 Swamp


So, just an update, I have been playtesting this list and it seems like a lot of fun and quite consistent. I can beat Zoo and Merfolk with it! :laugh: Basically the weak manabase of those decks gets punished by the Wasteland-Sinkhole disruption. I don't know if my Zombie draws were just good or the Zoo/Merfolk draws were just weak but the Zombies seemed to always draw an opening 7 with at least 2 disruption cards and often three. The deck is not fast, but when playing it, it almost always squeezes the life out of opposing decks with land/hand disruption, followed by a slow build up of Zombie lords for the win. One Death Baron, Lord of the Undead and Undead Warchief is enough to have 3 5/4 deathtouch zombies . . . not bad. Dark Rituals helped to power through faster disruption. In a nutshell, the deck plays like this: disrupt, lords, disrupt.

Of course, I'm not seriously contemplating this being a viable Legacy deck (or am I? :wink:), but it is fun and much better than I had imagined. The lords-only build allows your dudes to outclass theirs, especially when you keep them at a low land count.

Phyrexian Arena is the weakest card. The slow-roll way this deck wins (often stabilizing at a life count around 7-10 vs. Zoo), coupled with no way to get rid of it, has meant suicide a couple times.

[troopatroop]

4 Death Baron
4 Lord of the Undead
4 Cemetery Reaper
4 Undead Warchief

4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Phyrexian Arena

4 Wasteland
3 Mutavault
17 Swamp


Undead Warchief is a weakest card. Why not play Sarcomancy?

[MMogg]

Undead Warchief is a weakest card. Why not play Sarcomancy?

Because Sarcomany doesn't help at all as far as I can see. It's a card that is made for aggro, right, but in today's game 2/2 doesn't cut it for today's aggro. I'd much rather not even try to out aggro aggro decks with pissy little 2/2 tokens. I know they grow, but the key is, they also don't make other dudes grow.

I hate to say this because I know how much it sucks as an argument, but in this case, I must, it's a bad topdeck. In my playing versus Merfolk, the only thing that pushed me over the edge was my creatures outclassing theirs. Several matches had them drawing and playing Cursecatchers and Silvergil Adepts to my Undead Warchiefs and Death Barons. It just doesn't compare at midgame time.

I admit, this is a casual deck, but it is also a deck that is not trying to be what it isn't. It's not trying to be a fast aggro deck. It's more akin to the olde skool Ponza decks that used the first few turns to disrupt via Pillage and Stone Rain and then went in with big beef like Masticore and Lightning Dragon. That's more of an aggro-control strategy than a pure aggro strategy and I kind of think of Sarcomancy as a pure aggro card... well, it used to be. R.I.P. it now lives in the nether world with old has beens like Jackal Pup.

Anyway, that's my reasoning for not running Sarcomancy or any other non-Lord creatures.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

This can't possibly be the first time in a Zombie thread someone has mentioned Graveborn Muse.

I was tinkering with a similiar decklist a little bit ago. Disruption + a bunch of mid-game zombies. I tried splashing blue for Stifle, Brainstorm and... Vodalian Zombie! Blocks Goyf all day and gets pumped by Lord of Atlantis!

...Eh.

[Darkprophet]

Casual Zombie decks are fun.

NOTE: The following list is a MULTIPLAYER ONLY list, and thus, contains more than 60 cards, because the MP game can go long, with many, many Howling Mines (since everyone seems to run them). Also, I haven't updated this list in a while with new cards, thinking of doing so soon though.

LAND (29)
4 Unholy Grotto
4 Barren Moor
21 Swamp

Land notes: I seem to draw no land no matter how much I put in this deck. -_-. Thinking of adding Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Coffers, and maybe a random Lake of the dead and Volrath's Stronghold. Anything else cool to look at?

ZOMBIES! (46)
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Festering Goblin
4 Shepherd of Rot (cutting for a new Lord effect probably)
4 Twisted Abomination (again, I draw no land most of the time)
4 Gempalm Polluter (stupidly powerful win condition)
4 Nantuko Husk
4 Rotlung Reanimator (combos well with Carrion, nantuko, and Vengeful Dead)
4 Undead Warchief
4 Vengeful Dead (also a stupidly powerful win condition)
4 Noxious Ghoul (wrath all but me)
3 Soulless One (if my board is wiped, he can come back and be huge)
2 Ghastly Remains (eh, fillers right now, but, can be hilariously big on turn 3)
1 Undead Gladiator (cool enough to not want to cut)

No other spells right now. 75 cards total. Thinking of adding in Call to the Grave as well as some better zombies. also Urborg + Zombie Master makes my army unblockable. Also thought about Patriarch's Bidding as well. thoughts?

[Shabbaman]

I think Zombie Master is a better fit with Death Baron than Lord of the Undead. Deathtouch is good, but if your chumpblocker dies as well you don't gain much. Regeneration should help. If you go with Lord of the Undead I think you might consider Korlash instead of Warchief.

[LOurs]

I really enjoy to play zombie. Here's some ideas for that deck.

In my experience, Graveborn Muse fits nice in Zombies decks : it could be life pricy but running feeder, the muse could be sacrificed and the card advantage it provided is huge, especialy with any recursive engine online (grotto, lord ...). Otherwise, Grave Defiler is also a nice drawing card.

Grave Pact could also be considered as it is very powerful when running sacrifices outlet.

Rotling reanimator is really good when running sheperds, withered wretches or boneknitter .

Phyrexian Scutta is just a monster : 5/5 unpumped for 4cmc & 3 life is a house. Was usualy the main beater with Soulless One.

Undead gladiator & Vicera Dager were also pretty good with recursive engine for card advantage (the unpumped 3/3 haste attacker from the gy is pretty enjoyable).

Call from the Grave is a bomb vs any creature based deck. At least 2 of.

gl with these nasties undead !