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RexFTW
12-18-2009, 12:39 AM
This deck just made 6th at worlds. I will be updating original post once I do more testing. If anyone would like to help out post in the thread and I will move it to the front page!



You need to realize this is a completely different deck than 43 lands. It only plays 20-30 of the same cards and most of these are in the land department. You don't call countertop and thresh the same deck because they play the same lands and both have force of will/brainstorm/daze/tarmogoyf do you? You are comparing a prison deck (43 land) to a combo control deck (this). The idea of this deck is to hold off the opponents onslaught until turn 3-5 then win with scapeshift.

Main Deck

60 cards
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Forest
1 Island
3 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Stomping Ground
4 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Tropical Island
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
34 lands

1 Burgeoning
4 Exploration
2 Fire // Ice
1 Firespout
4 Force of Will
3 Horn of Greed
2 Intuition
1 Life from the Loam
4 Personal Tutor
3 Scapeshift
1 Seismic Assault
26 other spells

Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Shatterstorm
3 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
15 sideboard cards


The largest change from the newer builds of blue lands is Scapeshift as the win condition instead of Academy Ruins + Mindslaver. The old combo required 13 lands in play to complete the permanent lock and was vulnerable to having one of the pieces removed from the game. Scapeshift only needs 7-8 lands in play but is more vulnerable to counterspells and takes more deck slots. This weakness is addressed in this build by packing its own counters and Boseiju, Who Shelters All. The change to Scapeshift also makes “racing” combo decks feasible.

The inclusion of Force of Will is the second biggest departure from traditional land deck builds. This greatly improves the combo matchup and provides a single main deck answer to Magus of the Moon, Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Gaddock Teeg and Price of Progress. The majority of the sideboard in a traditional land deck is dedicated to dealing almost exclusively with these problem cards which make games nearly unwinnable. It is also a good answer to Progenitus and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn decks.

Personal Tutor has taken the tutor slot over Burning Wish, Gamble and Crop Rotation. Probably because it is blue so it supports the Force of Will plan. The tutor targets are Firespout, Scapeshift, and Life from the Loam. You can get the card now by cycling a Tranquil Thicket or with Horn of Greed.

Fire//Ice is a very creative card choice that I like a lot. It helps in several specific cases like Magus of the Moon, Gaddock Teeg , Dark Confidant, Goblin Lackey + Wasteland draws. It is also quite common to get Silvergill Adept + Cursecatcher. Ice is quite good against Rock/Eva archetypes which want to Hymn to Tourach you before you have a chance to cast intuition. When none of these situations pop up, it is blue and pitches to force of will.

Firespout and Seismic Assault. Obviously these cards blow out the tribal decks (as if the matchup weren’t good enough already!) Firespout is pretty much the key to beating merefolk and overkill vs goblins. Combine with Boujoka Bog to end Vengevine shenanigans.

Sideboard:
Chalice of the Void: Only for 0, 1 and 3. Rarely for 2! (Life from the Loam!). This is some extra love for storm and Zoo. Also see Tormod’s Crypt, Relic of Progenitus and Extirpate.
Devastating Dreams: For any decks that play little creatures and not Force of Will.
Krosan Grip: see Counterbalance, Survival of the Fittest, Relic of Progenitus and Tormod’s Crypt.
Shatterstorm or Pulverize: Affinity. Optionally this can be Shattering Spree which is good against Aether Vial and affinity or Reverent Silence which is strong vs Surivival of the Fittest, Counterbalance and Enchantress.
Spell Pierce: Bring it in to win counter wars over Scapeshift. Also stops Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Price of Progress, and Progenitus/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn decks. Bad synergy with Chalice of the Void @ 1.
Tormod’s Crypt + Relic of Progenitus or Crop Rotation: Crop Rotation may be better than Relic of Progenitus because it has better surprise factor (fetch Boujoka Bog) and is good in other matchups to get The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.


What gets cut for all this new technology?
Manabond: Obviously discarding your hand on the first turn is bad, if you are trying to play spells. Not even dredge plays One with Nothing!
2 Wastelands: They are much weaker without Manabond and sacrificing your own land is detrimental to the “get 7 lands and Scapeshift” gameplan.
1 Maze of Ith: Maindeck removal lets you get by with just 3.
Treetop Village: You don’t need to beatdown to win the lategame anymore!
Fogotten Cave and 2 Tranquil Thicket: Horn of greed gives every land “cycling 0”.
Glacial Chasm: Sacrificing lands slows down getting to 7 lands. This was always vulnerable to wasteland anyway.
Karakas: Meta dependent. Strong vs reanimator and Emrakul.



Original post:

A deck very similar to the original just made 15th at SCG Legacy event!
Scapeshift Land (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33219)
A Legacy Magic deck, by Louis Gentile
15th place at a StarCityGames.com $5,000 Legacy Open tournament in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States on 2010-06-06

This is a new deck archetype that I have piloted to several small tournament wins and two top 4 places at PT Austin events with over 60 entrants in each. It has a very favorable match up against any deck that does not play moon, Armageddon or Ad Nausem.

The idea is to play 7-8 lands then scapeshift to get 6 mountains and 1-2 Valakut doing 18 to 36 damage as early as turn 3 and commonly on turn 5. Alternate win conditions are man land beats and waste lock.


You need to realize this is a completely different deck than 43 lands. It only plays 20-30 of the same cards and most of these are in the land department. You don't call countertop and thresh the same deck because they play the same lands and both have force of will/brainstorm/daze/tarmogoyf do you? You are comparing a prison deck (43 land) to a combo control deck (this). The idea of this deck is to hold off the opponents onslaught until turn 3-5 then win with scapeshift.

(list updates in italics. Most importantly, there is no Burning wish which was tested for quite some time and remarkably bad in most cases.)

// Lands
4 [REW] Wasteland
4 [A] Taiga
3 [GP] Stomping Ground
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
2 [10E] Treetop Village
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
2 [ZEN] Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [10E] Forest (3)
2 [TSP] Vesuva



// Spells
2 [US] Gamble
4 Firespout
3 [SH] Summer Bloom
1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [US] Exploration
4 [SH] Mulch
4 [MOR] Scapeshift
2 [SH] Horn of Greed
2 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [OV] Zuran Orb
SB: 3 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Bujoka Bog
SB: 2 [PLC] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Natures Claim
SB: 1 Kamahl, Pit Fighter


The Cards
Wastelands – less than 3 color deck? Add wasteland. Duh. Also can win via wastelock.
Taiga/Stomping Grounds – Mountains to fuel Valakut.
Tabernacle – Auto win vs agro decks without wasteland and still quite strong vs those with wastelands.
Rishidan Port – Strong vs tempo style decks. With exploration or Tabernacle these become quite unfair at times.
Boseiju – Uncounterable I win with scapshift? Yes PLZ!
Valakut – Changes the text on scapeshift to “If you have 8 or more lands, win the game”
Vesuva – 6 mazes vs agro, and 5 ports vs control. Amazing even with the CIPT. They can also be additional mountains if you have drawn too many!
Tarmogoyf – Deck has green mana? Add 'Goyf. (Also punishes players who side out their removal. Evil)
Gamble/Crop Rotation – You can play either. They are each better for certain situations so I run a 2/2 split.
Summer Bloom/Exploration – Play more than 1 land a turn in a deck that just wants to play lands. Horay!
Mulch – Land ringleader. Sounds good. Also pumps goyfs real fast!
Scapeshift - “If you have 8 or more lands, win the game”
Horn of Greed – very unfair with exploration(s). Helps get Scapeshift and lets the deck just go nuts!
Crucible/LftL- Good backup plan vs enemy wastelands. Also allow you to waste your own mishras factories then replay them untapped. Life is a good gamble target late game.


Sideboard
Zuran Orb – vs any burn, especially price of progress. Zoo cant win when u have 40 cards that say “gain 2 life” in your deck.
Leyline of the Void – Makes ichorid a bye and agro loam very favorable
Seal/firebolt/seismic assault - an attempt to deal with moon effects. Make post board games about 50%. Seal is better than Grip because you can play it before they moon and not have to worry about keeping mana open to grip the turn they play moon.
tendrils combo – punt the matchup. Even trinispheres and chalices you lose by a ton.


The Matchups:
Threshold/CounterTop/Landstill – Extremely favorable because lands cant be countered. Resolve a crop rotation/gamble/draw for Boseijou and win with Scapeshift easily. You may want to hold your mulches until you have more goyfs on the board than they do. Side out mulch for leyline vs threshold.

Goblins/Zoo – Auto win. Seriously. Tabernacle/Maze of Ith is totally unfair against these guys. Ports/Wastes rain on Zoo's parade because of their fragile/sparse manabase. Price of Progress is very strong vs us game 2/3 so make sure to bring in all of the Zuran Orbs. Side out Boseiju, Horn of greed and Ancient Grudge.

Ichorid – You have a lot of things they dont want to see game 1. You can activate mishra's factory then waste it (or scapeshift, or crop rotate) to remove their bridges. Tabernacle destroys their zombie plan as well (they can never pay upkeep costs). Game 2/3 are almost auto win due to addition of leylines. Side out Boseiju, Horn of greed and Ancient Grudge.

Dragon Stompy/Imperial Painter – Auto lose if they draw a moon game 1. Game 2/3 are about 50%. If you can keep their moons off long enough to win celebrate!

ANT – Pray for ninja cuts and god draws. Impossible to win.



Original list
// Lands
4 [REW] Wasteland
4 [A] Taiga
3 [GP] Stomping Ground
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
2 [10E] Treetop Village
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
2 [ZEN] Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [10E] Forest (3)
2 [TSP] Vesuva

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
2 [US] Gamble
3 [SH] Burgeoning
1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [US] Exploration
4 [SH] Mulch
4 [MOR] Scapeshift
2 [SH] Horn of Greed
2 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [OV] Zuran Orb
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [OD] Firebolt
SB: 2 [8E] Seismic Assault

Illissius
12-18-2009, 03:15 AM
How's Burgeoning been? I keep looking at that card as potential Explorations 5+ in various decks, but can't tell for sure how effective it would be.

FoulQ
12-18-2009, 04:04 AM
I guess the obvious question is, why play this over loam engine in 43lands?

eq.firemind
12-18-2009, 04:29 AM
Ichorid – You have a lot of things they dont want to see game 1. You can activate mishra's factory then waste it (or scapeshift, or crop rotate) to remove their bridges. Tabernacle destroys their zombie plan as well (they can never pay upkeep costs). Game 2/3 are almost auto win due to addition of leylines. Side out Boseiju, Horn of greed and Ancient Grudge.
IMHO, if you didn't saw Bloodghast or saw LED in G1, Burgeoning is close to useless 'cause they'll need no more than 1 land.

Also, very interesting deck.


I guess the obvious question is, why play this over loam engine in 43lands?
Maybe 'cause Scapeshift don't scoop to graveyard hate?

kinda
12-18-2009, 05:06 AM
I would suggest burning wish in there somewhere to help you find scapeshift...i guess -1 loam,-1 crucible of worlds, -1 gamble, -1 shift +4 burning wish (or +3 wish +1 crop rotation). You could then put a firespout or other sweeper in the board too as a 1 of. I'm sorry but I don't think goblins/zoo will be quite the auto win you would like. I don't think crucible is useful enough without the crucible+horizon canopy engine.

RexFTW
12-18-2009, 02:27 PM
I guess the obvious question is, why play this over loam engine in 43lands?Maybe 'cause Scapeshift don't scoop to graveyard hate?

True. You also win on turn 4-5 with a good draw instead of turn 30. Gives your opponent much less time to find an answer! (and is more fun... less games go to 45 minutes!)


I would suggest burning wish in there somewhere to help you find scapeshift...
Gamble and horn of greed already do a fine job here. I dont have trouble finidng it. You also dont need it to win. You can go for land beats, wastelock, goyf etc.



How's Burgeoning been? I keep looking at that card as potential Explorations 5+ in various decks, but can't tell for sure how effective it would be.
Obvously not as good as Exploration, but the next best option. Alternatively you could use one of the tap: put a land into play creatures that cost 1. Plus its always fun to 'respond' to their land with a wasteland :).


Also, very interesting deck.
Thanks!

Illissius
12-18-2009, 02:36 PM
Obvously not as good as Exploration, but the next best option.

Well yeah, obviously. But how much worse than Exploration? 70% of an Exploration? 60%?

Bahamuth
12-18-2009, 02:59 PM
Burgeoning seems pretty bad with Horn. Is the Horn really needed? Don't you want more Gambles?

RexFTW
12-18-2009, 04:08 PM
horn is super ultra wins with exploration. Are you saying you dont want to draw 3-4 cards a turn for FREE!?

RexFTW
12-18-2009, 06:24 PM
Well yeah, obviously. But how much worse than Exploration? 70% of an Exploration? 60%?
Think of it as an exploration that always puts lands into play tapped...

Jeff Kruchkow
12-18-2009, 08:56 PM
goyf seems really unnecessary. yeah sometimes goyf can just win but with nothing to support him, hes bad.
also, you realize you have 7 mountains? if you are looking to win with scapeshift you are going to need a few more.

DrewliusMaximus
12-18-2009, 10:10 PM
About time you posted this deck JJ (I assume you're JJ RexFTW since I didn't see any other land decks top-4'ing in Austin).


goyf seems really unnecessary. yeah sometimes goyf can just win but with nothing to support him, hes bad.
also, you realize you have 7 mountains? if you are looking to win with scapeshift you are going to need a few more.

I don't know. When I played against this deck, Goyf was pretty good...getting pumped by Mulch and making me answer something that wasn't nullified by Blood Moon.

Valtrix
12-18-2009, 10:46 PM
True. You also win on turn 4-5 with a good draw instead of turn 30. Gives your opponent much less time to find an answer! (and is more fun... less games go to 45 minutes!)

It depends. You need to get 8-9 mountains, plus the valakut and/or vesuvas. So if you don't have any mana acceleration, well then it's still somewhat slow...However, having that instant win button seems really good either way.

DrewliusMaximus
12-18-2009, 11:46 PM
It depends. You need to get 8-9 mountains, plus the valakut and/or vesuvas. So if you don't have any mana acceleration, well then it's still somewhat slow...However, having that instant win button seems really good either way

All you need is 5 Mountains and 2 Valakuts right? So really you just need to get to 7 lands with the 2 green needed to cast Scapeshift.

JudasKilled
12-18-2009, 11:51 PM
Kinda funny, like that source quote when the guy says 56 cards add goyf. Its been done again lol.

Roman Candle
12-19-2009, 12:08 AM
All you need is 5 Mountains and 2 Valakuts right? So really you just need to get to 7 lands with the 2 green needed to cast Scapeshift.

You actually need 6 Mountains, because each one looks for five other Mountains.

Jeff Kruchkow
12-19-2009, 02:11 AM
You actually need 6 Mountains, because each one looks for five other Mountains.

Correct. And honestly from playing the extended scapeshift i can tell you, you need more mountains. That deck has 9 and even then i draw too many on occasion

RexFTW
12-19-2009, 03:26 AM
Correct. And honestly from playing the extended scapeshift i can tell you, you need more mountains. That deck has 9 and even then i draw too many on occasion


Heh you only need to get all 6 if you want to do the full 36 dmg. In most cases 4 mountains is enough (24 dmg). I have NEVER drawn too many mountains to not be able to win. Hell, 3 mountains you can still do 18.... Usually lethal.

EDIT: Remember you have 2x Valakut.

Vacrix
12-19-2009, 03:52 AM
This is pretty legit. I played around with it on MWS and it looks good. One thing stuck out though as a little odd; goyf. I think the slot would work FAR better as 3sphere. Seriously, you hardly play any spells, and by the time it comes down you will have already played your acceleration to completely avoid it. It will slow down almost every deck that isn't already running it while at the same time improving the combo matchup significantly. Also, you already run wasteland to keep your opponent off of the land they need to play any spells and crop rotation gets your more wasteland to hold down the lock, while crucible serves the same purpose.

cavemen125
12-19-2009, 04:00 AM
Ok, I'm new to legacy, but I usually see how combo decks play out when I look at the deck. But I'm confused by this combo- Valakut does 3 damage when a mountain comes into play, but only if you control 5 other mountains. How does it do lethal damage after you scapeshift? I probably sound really stupid asking this, but this combo has confused me for awhile now. I'm sorry if it has an obvious answer that I overlooked.

Vacrix
12-19-2009, 04:27 AM
Ok, I'm new to legacy, but I usually see how combo decks play out when I look at the deck. But I'm confused by this combo- Valakut does 3 damage when a mountain comes into play, but only if you control 5 other mountains. How does it do lethal damage after you scapeshift? I probably sound really stupid asking this, but this combo has confused me for awhile now. I'm sorry if it has an obvious answer that I overlooked.

You find more than just 1 Valakut and you can Vesuva the valakuts to get more, even 4 if you want.

cavemen125
12-19-2009, 04:34 AM
I get the find more than 1 Valakut part, but do all the mountains come into play at the same time, so they all trigger Valakut, and since there's five other mountains in play, all dealing damage?

Waikiki
12-19-2009, 05:03 AM
why not play burning wish, it can get hate and also scapeshift

Crow
12-19-2009, 12:07 PM
I get the find more than 1 Valakut part, but do all the mountains come into play at the same time, so they all trigger Valakut, and since there's five other mountains in play, all dealing damage?

Yes.
You scapeshift. all mountains come into play at the same time. so each mountain sees five other mountains and triggers valakut. dealing 3 damage each. <or i supose 6 since you want to have 2 valakut.>

matelml
12-19-2009, 01:50 PM
horn is super ultra wins with exploration. Are you saying you dont want to draw 3-4 cards a turn for FREE!?

Well, the Horn is a pretty bad card when you don't have Exploration, because the effect also helps your opponent. So when you don't have Exploration and your opponent keeps making landdrops, it's a Howling Mine, which is a really really bad card in Legacy.

Cards that are bad on their own are usually not very good, particularly when you wave few ways to find both pieces.

o13g
12-19-2009, 02:10 PM
Although this comment bears no constructive ideas, I felt it was worth mentioning that '39-Land-and-4-goyf' prophecy has materialized.

Tao
12-19-2009, 02:47 PM
Although this comment bears no constructive ideas, I felt it was worth mentioning that '39-Land-and-4-goyf' prophecy has materialized.

Hahaha, yeah. Countdown for 56 lands 4 Goyf is started.


Well, the Horn is a pretty bad card when you don't have Exploration, because the effect also helps your opponent. So when you don't have Exploration and your opponent keeps making landdrops, it's a Howling Mine, which is a really really bad card in Legacy.

It is not like Howling Mine because even without Exploration or Burgeoning you are the first who draws of it. That is a huge difference. Furthermore with 4 Exploration, 3 Burgeoning and 32 lands chances are very high that you get much much more out of it than your opponent whereas Howling Mine is always - 1/2 unless you time walk.


To the deck in general: I as co-creator of 43 lands have some experience with this type of deck (at least in testing, no tournament experience). I see where you are going and it is quite interesting. I tried to break Valakut for 43 lands and I failed pretty hard but this looks like it works. Your deck is a completely wacky construct but it looks like it works like it is and I wouldn't know what to change.

Burning Wish though seems like it would be really good in this. It is a maindeck solution for Moon effects and since your SB is already packed with Moon hate you wouldn't even lose maby SB slots. Wishing for Firespout, effective Meta hate, Moon solutions, Loam or Scapeshift in one card just has to be good.

jimirynk
12-19-2009, 03:41 PM
I'm 12 years old and what is this?

Darkenslight
12-19-2009, 03:45 PM
How much good would PRismatic Omen be in this deck? IT seems like the perfect home, as you would only need 6 lands to win: 2 Valakut and 4 Mountains.

How it works: 6 lands enter, then the type-setting ability works as a static ability, THEN you stack all 12 triggers. Remember folks; Valakut does not count as a mountain on its own.

Vacrix
12-19-2009, 07:32 PM
Well, the Horn is a pretty bad card when you don't have Exploration, because the effect also helps your opponent. So when you don't have Exploration and your opponent keeps making landdrops, it's a Howling Mine, which is a really really bad card in Legacy.

Actually its great with mulch and its great with scapeshift and even better with fetchlands (though I must say your opponent can take advantage of it with fetchlands better than this deck due to the singleton fetch in this deck).


why not play burning wish, it can get hate and also scapeshift

Interesting point. It can find regrowth too which makes gamble even better. The only thing I can see happening is a tool box doesn't really help all that much. The spells that can do damage to this deck are price of progress, armageddon and blood moon effects (and combo). The deck can't fetch anything to deal with price or armageddon, that I know of, and its not reactive like cunning wish. What would you fetch? The deck already runs ancient grudge to deal with wastelock and can find it with gamble and it runs loam which it can also find with gamble. I think that Burning Wish could find a place instead of goyf. You want to make scapeshift your primary win con because it will improve your aggro game and allow you to at least try to race combo when they are drawing dead or when you can slow them down with wasteland.

RexFTW
12-20-2009, 12:26 AM
(though I must say your opponent can take advantage of it with fetchlands better than this deck due to the singleton fetch in this deck).
It doesnt trigger twice off fetches (only when you PLAY a land).




You want to make scapeshift your primary win con because it will improve your aggro game and allow you to at least try to race combo when they are drawing dead or when you can slow them down with wasteland.

Aggro is an auto win, just as much as combo is an auto loss.

At PT Austin i played vs zoo/goblins 8 times in 12 rounds of swiss and won all of them in 2 games.


Well, the Horn is a pretty bad card when you don't have Exploration, because the effect also helps your opponent. So when you don't have Exploration and your opponent keeps making landdrops, it's a Howling Mine, which is a really really bad card in Legacy.
Please try it then let me know if you still feel the same. I think Horn of greed is ridiculously unfair, once it gets going its almost as abusive as manabond/loam/cycling lands in 42 lands. Most opponents will concede once you start drawing 3-4 cards a turn.

Dont forget you can also use this additional draw to dredge loam!

RexFTW
12-21-2009, 05:39 PM
removed by poster

RexFTW
12-21-2009, 05:45 PM
why not play burning wish, it can get hate and also scapeshift

What hate would you recommend?
my list of useful sorceries is:
Pulse of the Tangle (cool? i think so! Seems unfair against weenies, infinite chump blockers against bug countryside crushers or the like also!)
Pyroclasm (magus, goblins. Better than pulse?)
Final Fortune (an extra turn to win!)
Pulverize (Stax)
Nostalgic Dreams (Needs testing)
Devastating Dreams (Wildfireis better without maindeck lftl?)
Overmaster (Islands getting you down??)
Dwell on the Past (Agroloam, Ichorid, Threshold. May help game 1?)
Reverent Silence (Take that, Blood moons. You do need a forest though. And it kills your stuff too.)
Hull Breach (2:1 imperial painter/aggro loam yeahhhh! Also blood moon)
Firebolt (flashes back to kill 2 magus!)
Summer Bloom (Better than burgeoning? Perhaps)

(Of course Scapeshift and Life from the loam are auto included!)

Unfortunately i cant think of anything to help against armageddon, price of progress or combo.

Primal Command (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=141824) may be game over for zoo. Gain 7 and a grab a goyf? The two things they hate the most! Maybe this could put you out of price of progress range as well!

Vacrix
12-21-2009, 06:16 PM
What hate would you recommend?
my list of useful sorceries is:
Pyroclasm
Final Fortune
Pulverize
Nostalgic Dreams
Devastating Dreams
Overmaster
Dwell on the Past
Reverent Silence
Hull Breach
Life from the Loam
Scapeshift
Clear the Land

The things you are afraid of are:
Price of Progress, wish cannot answer this
Blood Moon, wish cannot answer this unless you have a forest in play
Magus of the Moon, burn spell
Ankh of Mishra, artifact hate
Ad Nauseam, wish cannot answer this

I think a very small wishboard will be your best bet that way you can still prepare for those problematic cards:

SB
-1 Firebolt
-2 Seismic Assualt
-1 Seal of Primordium
+1 Reverent Silence
+1 Scapeshift
+1 Firespout
+1 Ancient Grudge

MD
-4 Tarmogoyf
+4 Burning Wish
-1 Scapeshift (to board)
+1 Open slot

Ideally you might want to run one more wooded foothills to find that forest, or maybe Sylvan Library/SDT?.

Anyway, with this board, Burning Wish allows you to find Firespout against Magus of the Moon, or problematic situations against swarm aggro/EtW or dregde's tokens. Reverent Silence break enchantress locks. I don't know if you have issues with stax/stompy but if you don't then cut ancient grudge for something more useful (I was thinking mulch in the board, but it looks redundant if you can fetch Scapeshift).

Also, earthquake looks legit in that you have shit tons of mana to spend to even blow up goyf's with it (unlike pyroclasm or firespout), and it gives you reach with all that mana (though it also hurts you).

EDIT:

Firebolt (flashes back to kill 2 magus!)
How good has this been for you? If you add wish instead of boarding this in so that you can gamble for it or draw it and use it twice, I think that burning wish --> Firespout would suit you better in more situations.

Atwa
12-21-2009, 06:44 PM
How good has this been for you? If you add wish instead of boarding this in so that you can gamble for it or draw it and use it twice, I think that burning wish --> Firespout would suit you better in more situations.

I've been testing with Rolling Earthquake a little lately and I must say I really like it. It gets rid of multiple Maguses, tribal swarms boosted by lords (which get out of the range of Firesproud), can kill Tombstalkers when needed and acts as a finisher to get the last few points of damage.

I've started playing it in the place of Firesproud and never looked back.

RexFTW
12-21-2009, 07:03 PM
How good has this been for you? If you add wish instead of boarding this in so that you can gamble for it or draw it and use it twice, I think that burning wish --> Firespout would suit you better in more situations.

Well I think the firebolt is gamble love, because you can still play it even if they select it with gamble. As a burning wish card it is not as good as some other options I think.


Price of Progress, wish cannot answer this
life gain pre-emptively may work?

RexFTW
12-21-2009, 07:13 PM
Is there an earthquake (or equivalent) that can not be countered?

Vacrix
12-21-2009, 07:35 PM
I've been testing with Rolling Earthquake a little lately and I must say I really like it. It gets rid of multiple Maguses, tribal swarms boosted by lords (which get out of the range of Firesproud), can kill Tombstalkers when needed and acts as a finisher to get the last few points of damage.

I've started playing it in the place of Firesproud and never looked back.

Nice. It looks legit. I didnt know that there was an earthquake that also hits flying. You are playing a singleton in the board?



life gain pre-emptively may work?

Provided you can gain an assload of life. Often PoP hits for more a minimum of 10 and sometimes upwards of 16. I think you already have it covered with a better choice: Zuran Orb. Also, Zuran Orb is godly against quite a bit, putting you out of tendrils range in response to ToA if they have a slow hand (or if you get fast mulch), orb can keep you alive against aggro, and it can make you trade lands for bolts against burn. Is life gain worth a slot in the board? Depends on how much life you can gain really. Which spell were you thinking?

These look worth exploring:
Toil to Renown
You can tap man lands which count as creatures and lands. Provided you have, say 6 lands, you can tap 2 to play this, then tap the other 4 activating 2 man lands, giving you 6 life from lands, and 2 life from creatures. Not bad.

Marshaling the Troops
If you have the same number of lands as above, you can pay 2 mana to play this, then activate your man lands, then tap them to gain 8 life total. For each additional creature thats 4 life.

The only problem with such spells, is though they get better with each land you have, so does PoP. I think that Orb is just far superior in accomplishin that job, especially since it can actually let you benefit with life if your opponent does play something like armageddon, in which case it will take geddon stax (what other decks really play armageddon?) quite some time to kill you, hopefully so much time that you can get loam working. Speaking of which, a loam in the board sounds good against geddon stax.

EDIT:

Is there an earthquake (or equivalent) that can not be countered?

Volcanic Fallout, but if you are limited to only 2 damage...

RexFTW
12-21-2009, 08:43 PM
Fallout is unfortunately an instant. Molten Disaster is the only one that is wishable and cant be countered (split second) and costs RRRX (the third R is optional)

In the toil scenario wouldn't you rather just play primal command for 5 mana and gain 7 life + get a second 'free' effect?

I have tested for a few games and summer bloom seems INSANE so far.

morgan_coke
12-21-2009, 09:14 PM
Is there a reason you aren't running Sensei's Divining Top to help with draw consistency?

RexFTW
12-21-2009, 09:23 PM
Is there a reason you aren't running Sensei's Divining Top to help with draw consistency?

Well i think Mirri's Guile would be strictly better for this deck.

RexFTW
12-21-2009, 10:37 PM
Summer bloom is good vs Armageddon and Price of progress. You can play out only 4 lands (or 3 with exploration) then go all in up to 8 lands in a single turn and scapeshift to win.

Atwa
12-22-2009, 01:58 AM
Nice. It looks legit. I didnt know that there was an earthquake that also hits flying. You are playing a singleton in the board?

Yes. Now I play Eternal Garden and the deck has no room for it maindeck. It would also be expensive as hell :) But in the board along with Devastating Dreams and Flame Jet, it makes up for a nice removal suite.


These look worth exploring:
Toil to Renown
You can tap man lands which count as creatures and lands. Provided you have, say 6 lands, you can tap 2 to play this, then tap the other 4 activating 2 man lands, giving you 6 life from lands, and 2 life from creatures. Not bad.

I'd rather just play Nomad Stadium and recur it every turn to gain life when needed. Or play Zuran Orb (which is the only way a lands.dec can really fight Price of Progress).
Toil seems too much effort and mana (in total) to make up for a 1 shot lifegain spell. Hero's Reunion is a way better card, gaining you 7 life for 2 mana, instead of tapping 6 lands for 8 life. Granted you can't wish for it, but tapping 6 lands for 8 life, and leaving you without blockers (in a situation where you need the life) is just bad. Even Taste of Paradise seems better :)

(ok, not really, but you get my point)

RexFTW
12-22-2009, 03:08 AM
I'd rather just play Nomad Stadium and recur it every turn to gain life when needed. This deck does not play white :)

RexFTW
12-25-2009, 01:05 AM
I am testing with Burning wish now and it seems to greatly increase the deck's vulnerability to counterspells and somewhat slow it down compared to gamble @ 1 mana.

4eak
12-26-2009, 11:31 AM
One of the problems faced by a GY-based deck is balancing its "draw into" cards and the recursive ones. The "draw into cards" are naturally non-recursive and have to be irreplaceably vital to merit replacing cards which fit into the recursive theme.

Horn of Greed/Goyf/CoW/Scapeshift simply must be drawn into (not so easy), which really doesn't have a great deal of synergy in a deck with Loam, Gamble, Mulch. If the former set of cards hit the GY, they are dead; and if the latter set are often putting dead cards into the GY, then their maximum potentials for generating card quality and advantage just aren't being unlocked. In my experience, it is better to specialize even further in this case. I think the recursion route is the stronger route; especially since you are so concerned about opposing permission. Greed/CoW are powerful permission targets in your deck, while Loam (outside of CotV@2 and CB w/2cc floating) can run straight through permission while being a 1-card engine, to some extent, fulfilling the roles of both Greed and CoW.

I definitely think you should rely upon and build around Loam more than you have. Perhaps you don't have to play Burning Wish (although BW merits a very large amount of testing before you could rule it out), but Mulch, Greed and Gamble just aren't enough to find your singleton Loam. I like Burning wish for other reasons in your deck though. You can specialize further as a GY deck without removing the Scapeshift combo. You really want to maximize the odds of seeing Scapeshift in your hand, and unlike CoW/Horn of Greed, this is easily accomplished with Burning Wish (and Gamble).

Just an odd suggestion: what about a singleton Recoup (http://magiccards.info/od/en/216.html)? You obviously aren't against the idea of running singletons. You generally need a lot of land to play Scapeshift combo in the first place, so the cost of Recoup (even its Flashback) isn't actually that problematic. This solves one of the problems I had in my many Valakut-builds: comboing out when I wasn't able to get a Scapeshift in hand (for whatever reason).




peace,
4eak

RexFTW
12-26-2009, 12:44 PM
I am testing a build with 3 gamble 3 scapeshift 4 burning wish today. (sad that the only red cards worth of playing are tutors!)

I Have also used recoup in older builds and it was great against blue decks. I believe that I replaced it with maindeck Boseijou, Who Shelters All. This actually turned out to be much stronger against blue decks but can not get dredged/discarded scapeshifts. Currently, I have nostalgic dreams in the board to burning wish for which serves the same purpose as recoup I think!

4eak you have some good ideas!

RexFTW
12-26-2009, 12:44 PM
What does everyone think of Pyrostatic Pillar as SB vs Combo?

Nidd
12-26-2009, 02:11 PM
What does everyone think of Pyrostatic Pillar as SB vs Combo?
Pillar costs 2 Mana and you have no way to accalerate into it. Dropping it T 2 is kinda slow. Zuran Orb should be your best bet.

This deck seems to suffer from one of the problems 43Lands has: You can pretty much abandon all hopes when playing against Combo.

4eak
12-26-2009, 02:16 PM
@ RexFTW


I Have also used recoup in older builds and it was great against blue decks. I believe that I replaced it with maindeck Boseijou, Who Shelters All. This actually turned out to be much stronger against blue decks but can not get dredged/discarded scapeshifts. Currently, I have nostalgic dreams in the board to burning wish for which serves the same purpose as recoup I think!

I wouldn't use Recoup to fight blue decks. I would use Recoup to mitigate the losses incurred through Loaming/Mulching my "draw into" cards like Scapeshift and Burning Wish. Loam is the card you should be using to beat blue decks, Recoup simply limits Loam's drawback with regards to your bomb sorceries.

Assuming you change the deck to be more Loam-centric, you'll find yourself dredging or mulching not just your Scapeshifts, but also your Burning Wishes and Gambles (which themselves are chancy) into the GY. You'll sometimes find yourself in need of a way to recur Scapeshift, particularly if you choose to build around Loam. The problem is that you can't use just any recursive method (e.g. Bosium Strip (http://magiccards.info/wl/en/146.html)), your recursion card itself needs to immune to the drawback of being put into the graveyard. This line of reasoning is similar to why I'm advocating Loam instead of CoW to you. Loam is a self-recurring engine, unlike CoW. In this case, Recoup is self-recurring, allowing you to play Scapeshift, regardless of whether these cards are in Hand or GY. Having a Wish target may not be enough.

Even if you do play Recoup, keep the Boseiju. They aren't mutually exlusive, although I recognize you do have limited deckspace. Valakut takes up alot of room in the deck just to have the appropriate manabase.





peace,
4eak

Jeff Kruchkow
12-29-2009, 11:49 PM
Heh you only need to get all 6 if you want to do the full 36 dmg. In most cases 4 mountains is enough (24 dmg). I have NEVER drawn too many mountains to not be able to win. Hell, 3 mountains you can still do 18.... Usually lethal.

EDIT: Remember you have 2x Valakut.

While i realize that double valakut means you can leave drawn mountains out, you still only have 7 mountains (9 if you count vesuva). That means that if you draw/fetch for more than 3, you are in deep deep trouble. Also, a single drawn valakut is sad since you can garuntee waste will hit it if they have it.
Im not saying the deck is bad (although i doubt its better than 43 lands) but you do need more mountains.

RexFTW
12-30-2009, 02:18 AM
Im not saying the deck is bad (although i doubt its better than 43 lands) but you do need more mountains.

43 Lands is AMAZING... if you like draws!

Tao
12-30-2009, 02:27 AM
While i realize that double valakut means you can leave drawn mountains out, you still only have 7 mountains (9 if you count vesuva). That means that if you draw/fetch for more than 3, you are in deep deep trouble. Also, a single drawn valakut is sad since you can garuntee waste will hit it if they have it.
Im not saying the deck is bad (although i doubt its better than 43 lands) but you do need more mountains.

Some people (like you) think that all lands have to be sacced to Scapeshift. Not much to say but RTFC.

Phoenix Ignition
12-30-2009, 02:40 AM
. Also, a single drawn valakut is sad since you can garuntee waste will hit it if they have it.


Negative, no one has ever wasted a Valakut. In fact it would be stupid to do so because the Maze of Ith, Ports, Tabernacle, and man lands are more important to them at the moment. It's fine if they waste it, Scapeshift combos with it, but I have won maybe 10% of my games by just scapeshifting into all my manlands and wastelands.

But honestly people go for my manlands, mazes, mana producers, or tabernacle long before they want to go for the valakut.

Jeff Kruchkow
12-30-2009, 02:55 AM
Negative, no one has ever wasted a Valakut. In fact it would be stupid to do so because the Maze of Ith, Ports, Tabernacle, and man lands are more important to them at the moment. It's fine if they waste it, Scapeshift combos with it, but I have won maybe 10% of my games by just scapeshifting into all my manlands and wastelands.

But honestly people go for my manlands, mazes, mana producers, or tabernacle long before they want to go for the valakut.

Im well aware you dont have to sac all the lands. but if you draw, mill, play too many then you dont have enough to kill.

And I would gladly waste a valakut since w/o them this deck just rolls over and dies.

Phoenix Ignition
12-30-2009, 03:01 AM
Im well aware you dont have to sac all the lands. but if you draw, mill, play too many then you dont have enough to kill.

Well I'm not the one who said that first comment, so responding to me with it is interesting...


And I would gladly waste a valakut since w/o them this deck just rolls over and dies.
Have you played this deck? I don't really need to go into more of an explanation than recurring manlands + control.....

Jeff Kruchkow
12-30-2009, 03:49 AM
Well I'm not the one who said that first comment, so responding to me with it is interesting...

Have you played this deck? I don't really need to go into more of an explanation than recurring manlands + control.....

Sorry i was too lazy to pull the other quote.

And yes, recurring dudes is awesome. But only 1 crucible is bad. and yeah, w/o scapeshift win, the deck will suck on a CB and goyf all day

Phoenix Ignition
12-30-2009, 04:48 AM
Sorry i was too lazy to pull the other quote.

And yes, recurring dudes is awesome. But only 1 crucible is bad. and yeah, w/o scapeshift win, the deck will suck on a CB and goyf all day

Oops my bad, I completely forgot I changed the OP's list a bunch. I use 3 Crucible + 1 LftL.

I guess you can still use LftL to recur your manlands with his version though, and with Tabernacle+Wasteland they won't have as many creatures as you have lands. It could take some turns but you should be able to push through a decent amount of damage each swing cycle.

NiRVeS
12-30-2009, 05:05 AM
Oops my bad, I completely forgot I changed the OP's list a bunch. I use 3 Crucible + 1 LftL.

I guess you can still use LftL to recur your manlands with his version though, and with Tabernacle+Wasteland they won't have as many creatures as you have lands. It could take some turns but you should be able to push through a decent amount of damage each swing cycle.

Would you mind posting your list?

This deck seems really interesting, although it's sad that you have to throw the combo-matchup. Our current meta is defined by goblins and zoo around here, so it seems as if a deck like this could really thrive. However, due to these aggro-decks running rampant, blue decks are being pushed to the lower tables - and as a result, combo won the last few important tournaments.

So:
(1) Can I haz some moar lists, plz?
(2) Has anyone found any way to save the combo-matchup yet? How about trying to fit some chalices (edit: or even better: trinishere) maindeck? Chalice @ 1 shut off not only combo, but also zoo and most of the tempo-decks.

Also something I considered: why isn't mox diamond in here? Lack of synergy with exploration/horn?
All in all, seems like a really innovative idea, good job.

Grtz

Jeff Kruchkow
12-30-2009, 05:26 AM
Chalice @ 1 shut off not only combo

Hehe. No. Frankly, you just need to accept that combo will roll you and focus on the other matchups.

RexFTW
12-30-2009, 05:34 PM
I am working on a new list for a major tourney in 2 weeks. I will post the final list after the tournament.

matelml
12-30-2009, 07:59 PM
I repeat: Horn of Greed seems very weak in this deck. Burgeoning doesn't combo with it, so it is a equal effect if you don't have Exploration, which you can't search for except for Gambe.

RexFTW
12-30-2009, 11:13 PM
Try horn of greed playing summer bloom instead of burgeoning then tell me what you think :tongue:

PS its not equal. You play 33 land. Show me another legacy deck that has that much. You will almost always make the drop while they will often miss it.

Kangaxx
02-14-2010, 03:22 PM
This is a new deck archetype that I have piloted to several small tournament wins and two top 4 places at PT Austin events with over 60 entrants in each. It has a very favorable match up against any deck that does not play moon, Armageddon or Ad Nausem.

The idea is to play 7-8 lands then scapeshift to get 6 mountains and 1-2 Valakut doing 18 to 36 damage as early as turn 3 and commonly on turn 5. Alternate win conditions are Goyf, man land beats and waste lock.

// Lands
4 [REW] Wasteland
4 [A] Taiga
3 [GP] Stomping Ground
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
2 [10E] Treetop Village
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
2 [ZEN] Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [10E] Forest (3)
2 [TSP] Vesuva

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
2 [US] Gamble
3 [SH] Burgeoning
1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [US] Exploration
4 [SH] Mulch
4 [MOR] Scapeshift
2 [SH] Horn of Greed
2 [UL] Crop Rotation
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [OV] Zuran Orb
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [OD] Firebolt
SB: 2 [8E] Seismic Assault


The Cards
Wastelands – less than 3 color deck? Add wasteland. Duh. Also can win via wastelock.
Taiga/Stomping Grounds – Mountains to fuel Valakut.
Tabernacle – Auto win vs agro decks without wasteland and still quite strong vs those with wastelands.
Rishidan Port – Strong vs tempo style decks. With exploration or Tabernacle these become quite unfair at times.
Boseiju – Uncounterable I win with scapshift? Yes PLZ!
Valakut – Changes the text on scapeshift to “If you have 8 or more lands, win the game”
Vesuva – 6 mazes vs agro, and 5 ports vs control. Amazing even with the CIPT. They can also be additional mountains if you have drawn too many!
Tarmogoyf – Deck has green mana? Add 'Goyf. (Also punishes players who side out their removal. Evil)
Gamble/Crop Rotation – You can play either. They are each better for certain situations so I run a 2/2 split.
Burgeoning/Exploration – Play more than 1 land a turn in a deck that just wants to play lands. Horay!
Mulch – Land ringleader. Sounds good. Also pumps goyfs real fast!
Scapeshift - “If you have 8 or more lands, win the game”
Horn of Greed – very unfair with exploration(s). Helps get Scapeshift and lets the deck just go nuts!
Crucible/LftL- Good backup plan vs enemy wastelands. Also allow you to waste your own mishras factories then replay them untapped. Life is a good gamble target late game.


Sideboard
Zuran Orb – vs any burn, especially price of progress. Zoo cant win when u have 40 cards that say “gain 2 life” in your deck.
Leyline of the Void – Makes ichorid a bye and agro loam very favorable
Seal/firebolt/seismic assault - an attempt to deal with moon effects. Make post board games about 50%. Seal is better than Grip because you can play it before they moon and not have to worry about keeping mana open to grip the turn they play moon.
tendrils combo – punt the matchup. Even trinispheres and chalices you lose by a ton.


The Matchups:
Threshold/CounterTop/Landstill – Extremely favorable because lands cant be countered. Resolve a crop rotation/gamble/draw for Boseijou and win with Scapeshift easily. You may want to hold your mulches until you have more goyfs on the board than they do. Side out mulch for leyline vs threshold.

Goblins/Zoo – Auto win. Seriously. Tabernacle/Maze of Ith is totally unfair against these guys. Ports/Wastes rain on Zoo's parade because of their fragile/sparse manabase. Price of Progress is very strong vs us game 2/3 so make sure to bring in all of the Zuran Orbs. Side out Boseiju, Horn of greed and Ancient Grudge.

Ichorid – You have a lot of things they dont want to see game 1. You can activate mishra's factory then waste it (or scapeshift, or crop rotate) to remove their bridges. Tabernacle destroys their zombie plan as well (they can never pay upkeep costs). Game 2/3 are almost auto win due to addition of leylines. Side out Boseiju, Horn of greed and Ancient Grudge.

Dragon Stompy/Imperial Painter – Auto lose if they draw a moon game 1. Game 2/3 are about 50%. If you can keep their moons off long enough to win celebrate!

ANT – Pray for ninja cuts and god draws. Impossible to win.

I noticed the Leylines in the SB. Have you considered running Bojuka Bog as well, as not only a way to cast Leyline in the lategame but to deplenish GY's as additional hate. It's also a pretty cool card to search for via Scaepshift.

RexFTW
03-17-2010, 01:00 PM
I have tested several of the suggestions in the thread, including burning wish. I am posting a new list in the original thread.

That nice guy
03-25-2010, 06:15 AM
Tell me what you think please!


Alternate list - slower and less powerful but more consistent.

// Lands - 32
1 Forest
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [A] Taiga
3 [GP] Stomping Ground
2 [ZEN] Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 [REW] Wasteland
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
2 [10E] Treetop Village
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 [TSP] Vesuva

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells - 24
4 [MOR] Scapeshift
4 [US] Exploration
4 Explore
3 Burgeoning
2 [US] Gamble
2 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
2 [SH] Mulch
1 [SH] Horn of Greed

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [OV] Zuran Orb
SB: 3 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Bujoka Bog
SB: 2 [PLC] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Flame Rift
SB: 1 Bosiju

That nice guy
04-20-2010, 03:16 AM
Can I has more scapeshifty lists?

Vacrix
04-20-2010, 03:43 AM
I noticed the Leylines in the SB. Have you considered running Bojuka Bog as well, as not only a way to cast Leyline in the lategame but to deplenish GY's as additional hate. It's also a pretty cool card to search for via Scaepshift.
Agreed. Mulliganing for Leyline doesn't look nearly as strong as Crop Rotation --> Bojuka Bog or Gamble--> Crop Rotation--> Bojuka Bog. I did some testing in another deck with Crop Rotation and it was bomb against anything that likes having shit in its yard. It looks like a much stronger plan. I need not explain how awesome it is with Zuran Orb + Crucible active.

Koby
04-20-2010, 04:12 AM
I've cut Treetops out for Raging Ravine and have not been disappointed. It ends games much faster than Treetop and gives you access to all your colors. It can also grow really big if you're flooded, which TV can't and Mishra's are still tiny.

dr.knockers
04-22-2010, 12:30 PM
Gamble--> Crop Rotation--> Bojuka Bog

Seriously? When the hell do you want to make that play? Gamble to bojuka is better in every situation.

Puzzle
04-23-2010, 11:51 AM
Seriously? When the hell do you want to make that play?During the opponent's turn, when it's actually relevant to remove the graveyard he just set up to reanimate or Bridge ?

Antonius
04-24-2010, 03:35 PM
why not just find a way to draw absurd amounts of land (Mulch and/or Treasure hunt + Scroll Rack seems about right...) then mana bond it into play? Hell, Manabond + Loam + Zuran Orb seems like a pretty good approximation of seismic assault to me. Seems much more in line with what this deck wants to do, anyways.

Phoenix Ignition
04-24-2010, 05:18 PM
I've cut Treetops out for Raging Ravine and have not been disappointed. It ends games much faster than Treetop and gives you access to all your colors. It can also grow really big if you're flooded, which TV can't and Mishra's are still tiny.

Really? In my experience you need the blocking abilities of your Treetop because they come online soon enough to stop the bleeding from small creatures (since Maze doesn't always come and is generally the biggest target to waste). Having 5 lands that make mana out before you can block is really tough, and then he's no bigger until he attacks. Finding red has never been a problem for me though since I play 8 red making lands.


why not just find a way to draw absurd amounts of land (Mulch and/or Treasure hunt + Scroll Rack seems about right...) then mana bond it into play? Hell, Manabond + Loam + Zuran Orb seems like a pretty good approximation of seismic assault to me. Seems much more in line with what this deck wants to do, anyways.

Because this deck plays differently than 43 Lands does. You generally don't want to discard your hand because it would make gamble a very bad tutor if you aren't using it for LftL, and discarding any number of Scapeshifts hurts (since when you do play one it means game over, so people generally catch on and save countermagic for it -- and you don't always have Boseiju for it).

Also gaining 2 life per land is much worse than dealing two damage per land. It's the difference between Lightning Bolt and Healing Salve...

Combo Winter
04-24-2010, 05:39 PM
I think that playing a list with a scape shift plan and no burning wish is insane as it increases your sick plays by so much and lets you play 3 scapeshift which is a terrible late game draw. Also if you play just one creature why play goyf over terravore. Also are cards like explore really better than top which could give you some sick consistancy.

Antonius
04-25-2010, 04:25 AM
Because this deck plays differently than 43 Lands does. You generally don't want to discard your hand because it would make gamble a very bad tutor if you aren't using it for LftL, and discarding any number of Scapeshifts hurts (since when you do play one it means game over, so people generally catch on and save countermagic for it -- and you don't always have Boseiju for it).

Yes,and I don't entirely understand what the advantage of that is. You have all the vulnerabilities of Lands without some of the raw power--no bomb-lock, no chasm lock, no intuition for back-breaking packages, no Tolaria West--which also means you don't have the consistency of 7 Chalices in the Storm Matchup--and no Mox Diamond to accelerate into that. And Goyf just seems like a non-sequitur.

I will say though, after Valakut, Vesuva is the great discovery that this deck has made. I'm going to test 2 or 3 in my lands build it seems absurd because it allows you to do so much unfair stuff like cross over 2 or more glacial chasms, make five mazes or just blow someone out with four valakuts.


Also gaining 2 life per land is much worse than dealing two damage per land. It's the difference between Lightning Bolt and Healing Salve...

ah, I forgot to add this deck's signature gimmick, Valakut, into that equation. Valakut/Zuran Orb + Recursion (loam or crucible) makes for lightning helix. Manabond just allows you to get stupid with it.

RexFTW
05-10-2010, 12:13 AM
Switched out Firespout instead of Tarmogoyf. It does his iin the agro matchup, just better. The only downside is it cant attack and win the game. It is suprisingly strong vs Merefolk :).


Yes,and I don't entirely understand what the advantage of that is. You have all the vulnerabilities of Lands without some of the raw power--no bomb-lock, no chasm lock, no intuition for back-breaking packages, no Tolaria West--which also means you don't have the consistency of 7 Chalices in the Storm Matchup--and no Mox Diamond to accelerate into that. And Goyf just seems like a non-sequitur.

You need to realize this is a completely different deck than 43 lands. It only plays 20-30 of the same cards and most of these are in the land department. You don't call countertop and thresh the same deck because they play the same lands and both have force of will/brainstorm/daze/tarmogoyf do you? You are comparing a prison deck (43 land) to a combo control deck (this). The idea of this deck is to hold off the opponents onslaught until turn 3-5 then win with scapeshift.

clavio
05-10-2010, 01:37 AM
You don't call countertop and thresh the same deck because they play the same lands and both have force of will/brainstorm/daze/tarmogoyf do you?

Its all the same shit. Don't kid yourself.

RexFTW
05-10-2010, 08:46 PM
Its all the same shit. Don't kid yourself.

There are 2 decks. Ones with force of will and those without.

RexFTW
05-10-2010, 08:49 PM
Tell me what you think please!


Alternate list - slower and less powerful but more consistent.

// Lands - 32
....

// Spells - 24
4 [MOR] Scapeshift
4 [US] Exploration
4 Explore
....
2 [SH] Mulch
1 [SH] Horn of Greed

// Sideboard
.....
SB: 2 Flame Rift


Why flame rift?

I think mulch and horn of greed are much stronger than explore.


has anyone tried lands ungiven :)?

That nice guy
05-11-2010, 07:08 AM
Why flame rift?

I think mulch and horn of greed are much stronger than explore.


has anyone tried lands ungiven :)?


That was supposed to be flame jab :/ sorry

also mulch is to variable and horn of greed I just don't like. Explore does what I need it to do which is dig for scapeshift while accelerating my goodness. Also if your exploration gets countered it'll give you an extra dig while excellerating. But that all doesn't matter cause I cut them for many reasons :p

Al-ucard
05-11-2010, 10:47 AM
I have a question, its so needed to win via scapeshift? I mean that we don't need to do all the damage in the same turn. We could do 3-6 damage per turn with exploration and a lot of damage with manabond, and after we manabond off our hand we could play treasure hunt or loam to fill our hands again.

I'm thinking in something like this:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33424

RexFTW
05-11-2010, 10:41 PM
.....horn of greed I just don't like.....

Did you try summer bloom insetad of burgeoning? Today I drew 10 cards off horn of greed in 1 turn, then scapeshifted to win. Horn of greed is the alternate win condition.

RexFTW
05-11-2010, 10:44 PM
I have a question, its so needed to win via scapeshift? I mean that we don't need to do all the damage in the same turn. We could do 3-6 damage per turn with exploration and a lot of damage with manabond, and after we manabond off our hand we could play treasure hunt or loam to fill our hands again.

I'm thinking in something like this:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33424

interesting idea. this deck runs no rishadan port which is the best card in the deck vs control. I guess it plans to use ghost quarter for the basic land duty instead. Its also playing treasure hunt as its engine.

Al-ucard
05-12-2010, 04:48 AM
Yes, and with ghost quarter you can cycle your played nonbasic lands into new mountains to deal more damage too.

In this kind of decks I will like to have a blue splash to fit cards like engineered explosives, adademy ruins and tolaria west...

RexFTW
05-12-2010, 07:40 PM
I think the idea of that strange deck is to play as few non lands as possible so that treasure hunt will consistently give you a card you want and a ton of lands.

RexFTW
06-07-2010, 03:11 PM
A deck very similar to the original just made 15th at SCG Legacy event!

Link:
Scapeshift Land (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33219)
A Legacy Magic deck, by Louis Gentile
15th place at a StarCityGames.com $5,000 Legacy Open tournament in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States on 2010-06-06

Galrael
08-08-2010, 12:24 AM
So here is the list I'm building for this deck :

Scapeshift Lands

4 maze of ith
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Rishadan Port
4 Taiga*
3 Stomping Ground
1 Boseiju*
1 Forest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Raging Ravine
4 Wasteland
2 Valakut
2 Vesuva
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Mishra's Factory

3 Life from the Loam
2 Gamble
3 Burning Wish
3 Summer Bloom
2 Horn of Greed
3 Crop Rotation
3 Scapeshift
4 Exploration
3 Explore
1 Recoup

Sideboard:
1 Life From the Loam
1 Scapeshift
4 Zuran Orb
3 Krosan Grip
1 Flame Jab
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Recoup
3 Tormod's Crypt

I'm trying out the burning wish route. Unfortunately I don't have a tabernacle currently. I will be buying one for the next big tourney. I went with the loam engine so I have one main deck recoup in case I dredge away scapeshift. I like the list so far it's a hybrid of louis Gentile's list and some others in this thread. I like the summer bloom and horn of greed choices but I am open to suggestions. The tormods in the side are for dredge which has made a showing in my meta but if there is something better I can drop them. What do you all think?

That nice guy
08-11-2010, 08:35 AM
So here is the list I'm building for this deck :

I am open to suggestions.

While I no longer play this deck due to the heavy combo in my meta I have this to say after a year of testing and consistently T8ing;

2 Raging Ravine - I hate this card cause it always dies and is only good against land-still. It also slows the deck down a turn and the weakness of the deck is that I usually find it a turn to slow.

2 Tranquil Thicket - 2= not enough, i run three for now and might up it to four.

1 Bojuka Bog and 3 crop rotation- sux maindeck since you can run stronger cards. Also G1 you never know if you need crop rotate and reanimator usually wins anyway. ;(:mad:

3 Burning Wish - sux cause it gets hit by spellsnare and Beb and the weakness of the deck is that it is slow. I always win with about 5 life.

3 Summer Bloom - I just don't like this, it is very good, but I don't think it is good enough

3 Explore - please give details on how this has worked for you because my testing is inconclusive.


Also for any fans of this deck out there. I run a single manabond as a gamble target in case I do not have scapeshift. Also if you have scapeshift and your opponent is playing blue it is great force of will bait, and is the only time I have found chasm to be truly broken.

Galrael
08-12-2010, 05:25 AM
Well the burning wishes are still testing but will most likely be dropped.

Been testing the crop rotates main and they can be great for saccing something you don't need for say tabernacle or chasm. But if I were not to run these what would I run?

The ravines I originally liked cause they were also mana producers but I have hated drawing them and will most likely drop
them for another maindeck mountain and another thicket.
The summer blooms have been a house for me in some MUs but I'm open to suggestions as to what to play in place of them.

The explores have been great for extra land drops and for the draw (can be good for recycling loam as well) it's also a great turn 2 play.

All in all the list could use work. I'd love to hear some suggestions as to what cards to run in place of the questionable slots. Also any decklists that you have been T8ing with would be great to see. Lands! Type decks are doing well in my meta right now and I'd love to streamline this list as much as possible.

Fuzzy
12-01-2010, 06:12 PM
I'm working on this deck and i'm not happy with Burgeoning. How bad is Manabon in that spot?

RexFTW
12-14-2010, 04:26 PM
This deck made 6th at Legacy Worlds 2010. Updating original post!

Patrunkenphat7
12-15-2010, 03:49 AM
The name of this deck is very misleading, as it suggests some kind of relation to the lands control deck that many, including myself, still play today. This deck has no relation to that deck, as it is essentially the Legacy vesion of the Valakut / Scapeshift deck from Extended. I really feel like the Scapeshift combo should be suggested somewhere in the title, as it is making it seem like the 'other' lands deck is somehow outdated.

RexFTW
12-15-2010, 01:22 PM
Unfortunately, you can not edit the title of the thread.

The Treefolk Master
12-15-2010, 01:38 PM
Nicely ask a mod to do it.

RexFTW
12-15-2010, 03:28 PM
Dear Mod,

Can you please change the topic of my thread to "[Deck] Scapejank - Scapeshift Combo ".

Thanks RexFTW

Ok back on topic. I made the following updates to the OP.

The largest change from the newer builds of blue lands is Scapeshift as the win condition instead of Academy Ruins + Mindslaver. The old combo required 13 lands in play to complete the permanent lock and was vulnerable to having one of the pieces removed from the game. Scapeshift only needs 7-8 lands in play but is more vulnerable to counterspells and takes more deck slots. This weakness is addressed in this build by packing its own counters and Boseiju, Who Shelters All. The change to Scapeshift also makes “racing” combo decks feasible.

The inclusion of Force of Will is the second biggest departure from traditional land deck builds. This greatly improves the combo matchup and provides a single main deck answer to Magus of the Moon, Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Gaddock Teeg and Price of Progress. The majority of the sideboard in a traditional land deck is dedicated to dealing almost exclusively with these problem cards which make games nearly unwinnable. It is also a good answer to Progenitus and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn decks.

Personal Tutor has taken the tutor slot over Burning Wish, Gamble and Crop Rotation. Probably because it is blue so it supports the Force of Will plan. The tutor targets are Firespout, Scapeshift, and Life from the Loam. You can get the card now by cycling a Tranquil Thicket or with Horn of Greed.

Fire//Ice is a very creative card choice that I like a lot. It helps in several specific cases like Magus of the Moon, Gaddock Teeg , Dark Confidant, Goblin Lackey + Wasteland draws. It is also quite common to get Silvergill Adept + Cursecatcher. Ice is quite good against Rock/Eva archetypes which want to Hymn to Tourach you before you have a chance to cast intuition. When none of these situations pop up, it is blue and pitches to force of will.

Firespout and Seismic Assault. Obviously these cards blow out the tribal decks (as if the matchup weren’t good enough already!) Firespout is pretty much the key to beating merefolk and overkill vs goblins. Combine with Boujoka Bog to end Vengevine shenanigans.

Sideboard:
Chalice of the Void: Only for 0, 1 and 3. Rarely for 2! (Life from the Loam!). This is some extra love for storm and Zoo. Also see Tormod’s Crypt, Relic of Progenitus and Extirpate.
Devastating Dreams: For any decks that play little creatures and not Force of Will.
Krosan Grip: see Counterbalance, Survival of the Fittest, Relic of Progenitus and Tormod’s Crypt.
Shatterstorm or Pulverize: Affinity. Optionally this can be Shattering Spree which is good against Aether Vial and affinity or [cards]Reverent Silence[cards] which is strong vs [cards]Surivival of the Fittest[cards], Counterbalance and Enchantress.
Spell Pierce: Bring it in to win counter wars over Scapeshift. Also stops Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Price of Progress, and Progenitus/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn decks. Bad synergy with Chalice of the Void @ 1.
Tormod’s Crypt + Relic of Progenitus or Crop Rotation: Crop Rotation may be better than Relic of Progenitus because it has better surprise factor (fetch Boujoka Bog) and is good in other matchups to get The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.


What gets cut for all this new technology?
Manabond: Obviously discarding your hand on the first turn is bad, if you are trying to play spells. Not even dredge plays One with Nothing!
2 Wastelands: They are much weaker without Manabond and sacrificing your own land is detrimental to the “get 7 lands and Scapeshift” gameplan.
1 Maze of Ith: Maindeck removal lets you get by with just 3.
Treetop Village: You don’t need to beatdown to win the lategame anymore!
Fogotten Cave and 2 Tranquil Thicket: Horn of greed gives every land “cycling 0”.
Glacial Chasm: Sacrificing lands slows down getting to 7 lands. This was always vulnerable to wasteland anyway.

edgarps22
12-17-2010, 07:57 PM
Ok, so first thing the deck should be given its real name, this is essentially TurboLand from about 10 years ago. Horn of Green + Exploration = explosive draws. Lands uses strong lands to allow it to control a game and lock someone down, this deck does something very different.

A: It uses Force of Will to stop whatever you need it to
B: has a combo finish, it is not a lock deck like Lands
C: 43 Lands is more of a divergent strategy, both using similar principles, such as Canadian Threshold and Countertop Goyf

I wish I could find the old websites archives because Di actually ran a deck like this, using an infinite turn combo via Gaea's Blessing and Time Warp, in the Big Arse 2. That thread had a LOT of good ideas, testing around burning wish, staying UG, trying the red splash, and the deck is very efficient. Some cards you can use are things like Constant Mists, Hail Storm, and a variety of different tools. But please do not confuse this deck with the 43 Lands prison deck, this is not that, it's a control deck with a combo finish. Just now instead of Upheaval/TimeWarp/Gaea's Blessing, you use Scapeshift/Valakut. Also thinking about it, Upheaval might not be a terrible idea, if u can drop it via Boseiju it very quickly ends games, as you float all your mana and dump all the Horns and Explorations back into play and laugh at your opponent while you finish them awfully quickly.

My thoughts on the deck overall though:
-Very resilient to hate, Boseiju just says I win as long as you have Scapeshift

-Being capable of Wasteland Locking someone can just blow out some games

-Sound build, though you have more options, cards like Oboro, Palace in the Clouds might be something to consider, even as a 1 of, as it ensures you will always get your draws from a Horn even if you don't have a way to recur lands from your graveyard and/or don't have a land in your hand.

Cards I would test:

Meloku the Clouded Mirror - strong army base comes out very quickly and allows for more triggers of the horn

Constant Mists - if you have a Life from the Loam or a Crucible, it basically means you cant be attacked to death

Treasure Hunt - if you do not like Horn of Greed this card can actually do a LOT of the card drawing heavy lifting, trick is it far more likely to be countered, opponent may actually allow Horn of Greed to resolve simply because "It helps me too" when in actuality it helps you more ... a LOT more.

Explore - Solid for drawing and fits the theme of the deck. With a Horn of Greed in play it basically allows you to draw a lot of extra cards.

Oboro, Palace in the Clouds - Like I mentioned before, if you are using the Horn of Greed draw engine, this card can help you stabilize and draw lots of cards without the need of playing more lands, ie if you do not have recursion effects.

Upheaval - This is another one of those cards that if it resolves, chances are you just won the game because you recover from it infinitely faster than your opponent. Floating three G and dropping Upheaval, then replaying whatever Explorations you had in play followed by at least 1 Wasteland and a variety of manlands is brutal.


Overall I love the design, and seeing TurboLand again make some ripples in the lake that is Legacy is a good thing. I am anxious to see more in depth analysis of its real match-ups in the format.

Fatal
12-23-2010, 01:06 PM
Did anyone tested Time Spiral as enabler for scapeshift ( know its bad with loam but on the other hand, when we have 6 lands in play and scapeshift its just pure win). I'm testing it, with more Boseiju, Who Shelters All to be sure it will resolve.

Secretly.A.Bee
12-31-2010, 02:16 PM
I understand that right now you are still using LftL, but might I suggest Manabonds + Time Spirals, and go with Xx Crucibles as well as Wishes into LftL + some in the MD?

I can't see it being a bad idea to run Time Spirals in a list that has this many lands and the capability to wish into a Time Spiral, toss their hand and continue to do so via wishes, especially with as fast as you can.

Maybe I'm suggesting a new build altogether, or maybe this is something the more traditional "43 lands" lists ought to look at, but I couldn't help mentioning it. It seems too good of an idea to keep to myself, especially since I don't play this list, but have an interest in it since I used to test against it extensively.

Good idea or not, had to bring it to your attention.

--ABC

EDIT::: Missed the post above me. Damn. Sarnath'ed by a few days...meh.

adrieng
07-29-2012, 04:36 AM
I have been testing this deck for a moment now, not quite the same approach but still ; it is a scapeshift deck.

Good matchups :

agro decks : zoo/gobelin

agro control : RUG delver good matchup

Tempo Zoo : good matchup

G/W maverick : good matchup

UW miracle : 50/50 (not tested enough)

merfolk : 50/50

bad matchups : combo/ad nauseum/show and tell decks

The deck wants to temporize with veteran/zenith/bolt/flame/sakura

then kill turn 5/6 with scapeshift.

There is no reason to play nic fit or such compare to this deck.

I once tryed more black for innocent blood but it weakens to much the

manabase.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
5 [RAV] Mountain (1)
1 [GP] Stomping Ground
3 [ZEN] Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 [JGC] Wooded Foothills
3 [R] Taiga
1 [UNH] Forest
1 [A] Taiga
1 [P2] Swamp (1)
2 [MB] Forest (1)
1 [A] Bayou
2 [8E] Mountain (3)

// Creatures
3 [CMD] Veteran Explorer
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
3 [FD] Eternal Witness
2 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder

// Spells
3 [MOR] Scapeshift
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [JU] Living Wish
4 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MB] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [JGC] Lightning Bolt
4 [ROE] Flame Slash

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CMD] Veteran Explorer
SB: 1 [FD] Eternal Witness
SB: 1 [MOR] Scapeshift
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 1 [JGC] Maze of Ith
SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
SB: 1 [9E] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [DDD] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [TE] Perish
SB: 1 [DIS] Loaming Shaman
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [HOP] Innocent Blood
SB: 1 [LG] Karakas

StefN
01-15-2013, 03:50 AM
Hello everyone,

I haven't posted a lot, but I'm a long time follower in this forum and I'm just wondering if there are other people out there who are actually playing this kind of deck.
I started with this deck as a fun project a few month ago. You know, you are sitting with your friends, playing some legacy and testing for the next tournament, and then after a couple of beers everyone takes out their petdeck and the drunken fun can begin:tongue:.
The different with this deck is, that it's actually pretty strong (not only very funny to play). I tested a lot against BUG, Goblins, RUG and other tier 1-3 decks and the results are very positive.
So far I played the deck at 2 smaller tournaments and went 2 times 3-0. Won against UR Dreadstill, Reanimator, 2x Affinity, BUG, Merfolk. Of cource we don't wanna talk abaout the combo matchup, but everything else is absolutely winnable.
First of all here is my current list:

Main:

4x Burning Wish
3x Intuition
2x Crop Rotation
2x Scapeshift
1x Life from the Loam

4x Exploration
3x Crucible of Worlds
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Mox Diamond

1x Glacial Chasm
1x The Tabernacle at Penderell Vale
1x Boseiju who Shelters all
1x Karakas
4x Maze of Ith
4x Rishadan Port
3x Wasteland
2x Mishras Factory
2x Valakut the Molten Pinnacle
2x Thrancuil Thicket
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Badland
2x Volcanic Island
4x Taiga
2x Stomping Ground

Side:

1x Firespout
1x Life from the loam
1x Summer Bloom
1x Scapeshift
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Reverent Silence
1x Hull Breach
1x Damnation
1x Slaughter Games
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Bujuka Bog
1x Valakut the Molten Pinnacle
3x Ensnaring Bridge


Every Matchup except storm based decks are winnable even ShowNTell Decks after boarding. Another positive aspect is, that this deck is great against graveyard hate. I won a lot of games against first turn Leyline of the Void. You just play the deck from the top. It's a little bit slower, but with SDTop and all the great topdecks still very powerfull. And don't forget, it's a combodeck. This is such a huge difference, to have the possibility to just go off and win the game immediately.

In 3 weeks there is a big tournament around here. I will probably choose between Jund, Esper Blade or this sweet list :wink:
The problem is, I need more input from people who played this kind of deck in Legacy.

Greetings StefN

Anen
01-15-2013, 08:33 AM
Hello everyone,

I haven't posted a lot, but I'm a long time follower in this forum and I'm just wondering if there are other people out there who are actually playing this kind of deck.
I started with this deck as a fun project a few month ago. You know, you are sitting with your friends, playing some legacy and testing for the next tournament, and then after a couple of beers everyone takes out their petdeck and the drunken fun can begin:tongue:.
The different with this deck is, that it's actually pretty strong (not only very funny to play). I tested a lot against BUG, Goblins, RUG and other tier 1-3 decks and the results are very positive.
So far I played the deck at 2 smaller tournaments and went 2 times 3-0. Won against UR Dreadstill, Reanimator, 2x Affinity, BUG, Merfolk. Of cource we don't wanna talk abaout the combo matchup, but everything else is absolutely winnable.
First of all here is my current list:

Main:

4x Burning Wish
3x Intuition
2x Crop Rotation
2x Scapeshift
1x Life from the Loam

4x Exploration
3x Crucible of Worlds
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Mox Diamond

1x Glacial Chasm
1x The Tabernacle at Penderell Vale
1x Boseiju who Shelters all
1x Karakas
4x Maze of Ith
4x Rishadan Port
3x Wasteland
2x Mishras Factory
2x Valakut the Molten Pinnacle
2x Thrancuil Thicket
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Badland
2x Volcanic Island
4x Taiga
2x Stomping Ground

Side:

1x Firespout
1x Life from the loam
1x Summer Bloom
1x Scapeshift
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Reverent Silence
1x Hull Breach
1x Damnation
1x Slaughter Games
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Bujuka Bog
1x Valakut the Molten Pinnacle
3x Ensnaring Bridge


Every Matchup except storm based decks are winnable even ShowNTell Decks after boarding. Another positive aspect is, that this deck is great against graveyard hate. I won a lot of games against first turn Leyline of the Void. You just play the deck from the top. It's a little bit slower, but with SDTop and all the great topdecks still very powerfull. And don't forget, it's a combodeck. This is such a huge difference, to have the possibility to just go off and win the game immediately.

In 3 weeks there is a big tournament around here. I will probably choose between Jund, Esper Blade or this sweet list :wink:
The problem is, I need more input from people who played this kind of deck in Legacy.

Greetings StefN

I was playing this almost same list about a year ago (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4020-Deck-43-Lands&p=605343&viewfull=1#post605343).
And it evolved in this (http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck?ref=255884&decklanglocal=eng) (9 months old sorry).

One advice I can give you is to go -1 Taiga, +1 Stomping Ground. This way you can always kill with Valakut after having Taiga extracted.

StefN
01-16-2013, 04:39 AM
Thx for the reply (I thinck your list was the list I found and started with to work on).
This was exactly what I was talking about. The advice with the extraction is meta depending very smart, I will definately give it a try.
I have 1 question about the Sideboard. Some of the cards seems very powerfull, but only in theory. All this artifact and enchantment removal is in my opinion too much. Also SummerBloom, I'm not sure if this effect is strong enough for a SB slot.

The cards that you definitely want in your SB are:

1x Life from the Loam
1x Firespout
1x Scapeshift
1x Bojuka Bog "if you not allready play it MD"
3x Ensnaring Bridge

then maybe.......

1x Slaughter Games "MD answer for Combo/ I know it's slow"
1-2x Artifact-enchantment removal
1x Massremoval??
1x M.Pulse also to get rid of Jace??
3x Chalice of the Void "I want to try this out to at least have in theory an answer to Storm based decks"

I thinck I will again try this list at our local Legacy tournament at Fri. Still not sure if my motivation is high enough to play it at some big tournaments, but won't give up so far :smile:

Anen
01-16-2013, 05:49 PM
Thx for the reply (I thinck your list was the list I found and started with to work on).
This was exactly what I was talking about. The advice with the extraction is meta depending very smart, I will definately give it a try.
I have 1 question about the Sideboard. Some of the cards seems very powerfull, but only in theory. All this artifact and enchantment removal is in my opinion too much. Also SummerBloom, I'm not sure if this effect is strong enough for a SB slot.

The cards that you definitely want in your SB are:

1x Life from the Loam
1x Firespout
1x Scapeshift
1x Bojuka Bog "if you not allready play it MD"
3x Ensnaring Bridge

then maybe.......

1x Slaughter Games "MD answer for Combo/ I know it's slow"
1-2x Artifact-enchantment removal
1x Massremoval??
1x M.Pulse also to get rid of Jace??
3x Chalice of the Void "I want to try this out to at least have in theory an answer to Storm based decks"

I thinck I will again try this list at our local Legacy tournament at Fri. Still not sure if my motivation is high enough to play it at some big tournaments, but won't give up so far :smile:


Combo is a MU you have to dodge with this deck.
I don't like Summer Bloom, I have never ever wished for it.

My SB would be:

3x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Life from the Loam
1x Scapeshift

1x Firespout
1x Perish. No need to play Damnation. Everything already dies to Firespout, and what don't dies to Perish (Goyf and to a lesser extent KotR) which is 1 mana less.
1x Hull Breach
1x mass enchant removal: Reverent Silence.
1x mass artefact removal. I prefer Shattering Spree over Creeping corrosion, because it can be less expensive for the same effect, and. Pulverize is bad because you need to get those mountains back in order to kill. Meltdown doesn't deal with Batterskull)

5x Flex:
Needle is pretty effective against Jace, I had them in my SB at a time.
Dark Confidant can give you some alternative engine post board.
I liked to have the full playset of Crop Rotation post board vs. some MU, Dredge for example.
Call the Skybreaker to have an alternate win con (never used it to be honest ^^)
Innocent Blood?
Thoughtseize?

What I liked with the deck is that it can easily ignore grave hate. I remember a game where my opponent extirpated my single Loam, that was really fun ^^
I've switched to 43 Lands for a year now, maybe I will sleeve this again now that Deathrite Shaman is omnipresent. I personally don't like the blue heavy version of the primer, FoW with 12 blue cards is greedy.

StefN
01-17-2013, 08:31 AM
Hmm about the Confidants. For what matchups do you board them in?? I mean isn't loam enough cardadvantage. Before Bob can generate enough cards, many times the game is anyway over because you can combo off. Isn't the Confi maybe a better choice for 43Lands then for this deck?? Maybe I'm wrong............

About the Blueversion. I don't thinck that this deck is the right home for Force of Will. First of all, as you mentioned, the blue count is just too low, and the second aspect is that you never want pitch one of your cards. This would just be too much carddisatvantage. The only reason for blue except of Intuition would be Jace the Mindsculptor. I was thincking a lot about this card the last weeks. Jace is good against Jace. He can generate a lot of cardadvantage, he is good because he doesn't abuse the graveyard, and he can win the game by his own. I thinck I will give him a try tomorrow.

+2 Jace the Mindsculptor
-1 Scapeshift
-1 Intuition or Crucible??

We will see. I will report the next days :smile:

StefN
02-04-2013, 05:38 AM
Hello everyone, and especially hello to all the longtime readers of this thread :tongue:. Last weekend I played this lovely deck at a tournament. 6 rounds with 45 players.
I played 5-1 and made 4th place.
I played the following list:

Main:
3x Intuition
4x Burning Wish
2x Firespout
1x Life from the Loam
2x Scapeshift
4x Exploration
1x Burgeoing
1x Engeneered Explosives
1x Crucible of Worlds
3x Sense’s Divining Top
4x Mox Diamond

1x The tabernacle at pendrell Vale
1x Karakas
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Academy Ruins
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Maze of Ith
3x Wasteland
2x Rishadan Port
1x Mishra’s Factory
1x Raging Ravine
2x Tranquil Thicket
2x Valakut the Molten Pinnacle
4x Arid Mesa (Whitout a Forest main, every red fetch should be played)
1x Badland
2x Volcanic island
3x Taiga
3x Stomping Ground

Sideboard:
1x Life from the Loam
1x Scapeshift
1x Summer Bloom
1x Firespout
1x Shattering Spree
1x Reverent Silence
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Damnation
1x Boseiju, who Shelters all
3x Raven’s Crime
3x Ensnaring Bridge

For those, who are maybe interested, a short report of the tournament.
1. Round: RUG

Game 1: An early Firespout for his critters was enough to stabilize. After I play Exploration he scooped. (I already have Loam+Waste+Maze)
Game 2: He managed to resolve Delver + 2 Mongooze the first 3 rounds. I couldn't resolve any important spell and I was basically too slow the whole game.
Game 3: Firespout on 9 live resolved. He again had 2 Mongoose and 2 Bolts in hand ;). 2 turns later I killed him with Scapeshift.
2-1

2. Round: Enchantress (With Rest in Peace and Energy Field/ Helm Combo)

Game 1: I had a slow hand and was short on lands. After more than 8 rounds he had 3 Enchantress effects, Rest in Peace, Energy field and all kind of other enchantments. Then finally I drew a forest to play Wish on Reverent Silence. After that spell he only had 3 lands left wich gave me enough time to play Scapeshift a few turns later.
Game 2: An early Reverent Silence wasn’t enough. He recovered very fast and killed me with RiP/Helm.
Game 3: Allmost the same as game 3, but this time I was flooded + Top in play + no cards in my hand. He had everything and played a Helm in his turn, but had no mana to activate it. Next turn I drew, looked in the top and heeyyyy third card was a Wish ;). Reverent silence for you my friend ………he was very happy at this moment :wink:
The good thing was although the had RiP and Energy Field in play, I activated the Raging Ravine the 2 turns before I played the Reverent Silence and attacked him to at least get the counters. Then the turns was announced but the Raging Ravine only needed 3 attacks so I won the game in the turns ;).
2-1

3. Round: Maverick (With Punishing Fire)
Game 1: He couldn’t put enough pressure on the board and I stalled until I could kill him with Scapeshift.
Game 2: He had an early Ooze and I was short on lands. Then he played Ajani Vengeant. In his final round he was on 17 life and had a Creature+Jitte with 2 counter after the attack. I had 6 lands in play and Burning Wish on top of my library (Top in play). Then he decided not to ultimate me with Ajani to wait one more round. He fetched on 16 played Surgical Extraction on nothing relevant “14” life ;).
He said go and I could play Wish on Scapeshift play my 7 land and kill him with 18 damage ^^. Close one.
2-0

4. Round: Nic Fit (With Natural Order)
Game 1: I wasn’t fast enough and Natural Order 3 round for Progenitus won him the game.
Game 2: He had Progenitus and I had a Bridge. He destroyed the Bridge once with a deed to make me 10 damage, but I could use the Academy Ruins to play the Bridge next turn again.
Then there was the situation, that I had tabernacle in play, but he also enough lands. I noticed too late that he didn’t pay the upkeep cost the round before so I payed attention the next turn. He again didn’t pay so in his 1 Main I said that he forgot his trigger and that he have to sac. Progenitus. He said no because it’s my tabernacle and I have to indicate that he has to pay. I called the judge and he explained us, that the tabernacle gives every creature this ability so the owner of the creature is the owner of the trigger.
A few turns later I killed him with Scapeshift.
Game 3: This was a pretty though and long game. He again had the Hydra and I had my Bridge. I only know that I had both valakut in play. Fetch EoT for a mountain to make 6. In my turn play 2 fetchlands to make him him 4x3 wich was enough for the win.
2-1

5. Round: Elves (With Shaman/Order) played by one of my friends ;)
Game 1: I was too slow AND made a few mistakes. Natural Order for Behemoth won him the game.
Game 2: Very grindy game. I had a few Firespouts and chasm but could’t kill him with Scapeshift. Then the turns was announced and the second game was a draw.
0-1-1 Deathrite Shaman sucks, but shaman with Symbiote and Quir.Ranger sucks even more :D


6. Round: Dredge
Game 1: He had a slow start and after I could remove his Graveyard with Bojuka Bog I could seal the game with Loam + Chasm and Tabernacle.
Game 2: He was already pissed and again he didn’t have the sick start. I could play Intuition end of the second turn for bojuka bog+ chasm+tabernacle /Wish for loam in my hand and he just scooped immediately.
2-0

So I went 5-1 and made 4th place wich I was pretty happy about. There are still some things I would change after the tournament, but all together I’m very satisfied with the deck.
- The Explosives and Academy Ruins Package was underwhelming.
- Burgeoing is ok when you play it first turn, but terrible when you draw it later so I cutted it again.
- Amazing was the 2 Firespouts main. Against shaman and all kind of aggressive decks this card is unbelievable strong. It’s beside Loam and Scapeshift the Wish target number 1 so why not play it Main.
In 2 weeks there is a bigger tournament here nearby so I will try to test a lot the next weeks to develop the list a lttle bit more.
The list is soo much fun to play ;), and most people don’t know how to play correct against this deck so we still have the rogue advantage.