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Hopo
08-04-2011, 06:59 AM
Once more, I do not agree with that.

First of all, most DH decks play Show and Tell and thus Progenitus. So that Time Stretch combo (or Pandemonium) is only a 1-card combo in this shell.

This is true in 4 Progenitus-decks, but what I had in mind was having the minimum amount of combo pieces and more efficient tutoring. A bit in a way like the Hivemind players are dropping Emrakul and going for the pure combo. This means 4 Show and Tell, 4 Dreamhalls, 3 Conflux, 1 Pact of Negation, 1 Beacon of Immortality and 1 False Cure. I always want to use the first Conflux to tutor the 2 combo cards, 2 Conflux to cast them and a Pact as a backup. You could replace the Pact with a 4th Conflux, but I find it calming to have a protection spell in case Dream Halls makes some otherwise dead countermagic suddenly live.


Second of all, combos can be more than 2-card but still valuable if their elements are not useless without DH in play. For a long time, I preferred Magister Sphinx + Hellkite*2 because all my combo elements were SnTable.

I wouldn't count on single non-shroud-creatures winning that many people nowadays outside Reanimator, but otherwise it sure is a benefit to not need Dream Halls in play. I just try to go for the raw power of Dream Halls -> win immediately instead of just dropping probable finishers from Show and Tell. Progenitus is good if you take that route, though.

Why I originally thought that Beacon-combo is superior to all, is that it is Krosan Grip proof, can be protected with Pact of Negation and doesn't care about life totals above 20. Nowadays I haven't seen too many Grips in tournaments, which may or may not change the determination of the best combo.

The only 3-card combo I have played in tournaments with is the Progenitus + Prismatic Omen + Coalition Victory, since it get's around all kinds of hate. It's still pretty crappy. Eventually, I always come back to 2-card combos just for decks efficiency's sake. My early combos were just cute but not too powerful, like Magister Sphinx + Progenitus, or 2 x Searing Wind. I also played counterspells of different colors to tutor along with Conflux. Eventually I settled in Time Stretch + Progenitus, then ditched that after finding out about Beacon + Cure.

Maveric78f
08-04-2011, 07:59 AM
I don't bite the Krosan Grip proof of the Beacon Combo, since you'd need False Cure, Beacon of immortality, and 2 Conflux in hand to win, which probably never happened. But I see what you mean : you play DH, you Conflux in resp the opponent grips DH, then you tutor another DH and the Beacon Combo in order to win next turn.

With the Time Stretch set-up, you can alternatively either play directly Progenitus off DH (if you know the opponent's hand) of play Conflux into DH/SnT/FoW + BW + 2*Progenitus + Conflux. The Conflux play is less effective but the possibility to directly put Progenitus into play is nice.

I personally like the 4*Progenitus MD kill in the Ur build because it's an important CA mechanism alongside with Conflux, because you probably do not need to rely on Time Stretch to win and you will never draw since you keep it in the SB. Even more importantly you will be able to use 2 Burning Wishes to get rid of annoying elements of your opponent.

21 lands including 5 2-mana lands

Cheaters : 7
4*DH
3*SnT

Combo : 7
3*Conflux
4*Progenitus

Tutors/manipulation : 11
4*Brainstorm
4*Burning Wish
3*Sensei's Divining Top

Control : 14
4*FoW
3/4*F/I
6/7 Spell Pierce + Mental Misstep + Spell Snare

Sideboard : 15
1*Conflux
1*Show and Tell
1*Time Stretch
1*Firespout
1*Reduce to Dreams
1*Temporal Fissure
1*Austere Command
4*Red Elemental Blast
4*TBD

Let's start with DH in play, Conflux and a pitching card in hand
Conflux pitching the card into Conflux + 2*Proge + BW + FoW
... Hand : Conflux + 2*Proge + BW + FoW
Conflux pitching Proge into Conflux + 2*Proge + BW + FoW
... Hand : Conflux + 3*Proge + 2*BW + 2*FoW
BW pitching Proge for Time Stretch
... Hand : Conflux + 2*Proge + 1*BW + 2*FoW + 1*Time Stretch
Conflux pitching Proge for 3*Proge + 1*BW + 1*F/I
... Hand : 4*Proge + 2*BW + 2*FoW + 1*Time Stretch + 1*F/I
BW pitching Proge for Temporal Fissure
BW pitching Proge for Conflux
Conflux pitching Proge for 3*Proge + 1*BW + 1*F/I
... Hand : 4*Proge + 1*BW + 2*FoW + 1*Time Stretch + 2*F/I + 1*Temporal Fissure
BW pitching Proge for Austere Command/Reduce to Dreams (really not necessary if opponent does not have more than 20 life)
Proge pitching Proge for playing it
Time Stretch pitching F/I
Temporal Fissure pitching F/I targeting opposing permanents + DH (12 storm)
... Hand : 1*Proge + 2*FoW + 1*Reduce to Dreams/Austere Command +1*DH

With this set-up, you dodge every permanent hate I can think about without having any useless cards MD besides Conflux and Progenitus. If you are afraid by infinite life totals, you can even keep one slot for Reverse the Sands in SB.

menace13
08-04-2011, 08:10 AM
Guys, I'm going to have to ask you to desist any further discussion on DHalls, lest the deck starts top 8ing and they ban my SnTs. I mean, the SnT thread is already 15 pages long.:laugh:

Maveric78f
08-04-2011, 08:24 AM
Guys, I'm going to have to ask you to desist any further discussion on DHalls, lest the deck starts top 8ing and they ban my SnTs. I mean, the SnT thread is already 15 pages long.:laugh:

What is your point?

menace13
08-04-2011, 09:08 AM
What is your point?
I'm sorry you must not be too quick on uptake. It was a joke as to how SnT will get banned if yet another deck(with me so far?, good) does well that plays SnT.

Admiral_Arzar
08-04-2011, 09:26 AM
What is your point?

Apparently, your title should be "humor inept."

EDIT: I need to play this deck at some point, as I don't like Hive Mind. The question is, does this deck have the potential to be as good as Hive Mind?

Maveric78f
08-04-2011, 10:04 AM
I really did not get it. I did not know the "lest" word and I thought it was "less" mistyped short for "unless".

My title should be English inept maybe ;-)

About your question, it is more difficult to hate it, it plays less dead cards, and therefore can be played in a more controlish way, but in comparison with Hive Mind, we generally do not have the nuts of Pact of Negation (which is a good argument for playing an "instant win") and enchantment hate is more effective against DH too.

menace13
08-04-2011, 11:03 AM
I really did not get it. I did not know the "lest" word and I thought it was "less" mistyped short for "unless".

My title should be English inept maybe ;-)

About your question, it is more difficult to hate it, it plays less dead cards, and therefore can be played in a more controlish way, but in comparison with Hive Mind, we generally do not have the nuts of Pact of Negation (which is a good argument for playing an "instant win") and enchantment hate is more effective against DH too.
Then I am sorry and apologize. I am so used to a lot of posters here jumping down throats at every post that I have become a bit of a dick(even more so than norm). My bad and I was only joking about the SnT comment. Was all in jest.

Back on topic- I like the Insta win combos and Pact plays into it very well giving the deck 8 free counters.

Maveric78f
08-04-2011, 11:22 AM
In my experience, it's difficult to know it you can use your Pact, even more with SnT because Qasali, ORing and some other cards will ruin your day. But even with DH, a Krosan Grip played for free and you'll need another turn to play the DH you tutored with Conflux. The ability to play U pact (and to a lesser extent B pact) as a free universal counterspell is maybe what makes the difference.

Still, DH does not fold to Daze, Spell Pierce, Cursecatcher, stifle, ... They just do not face the same kind of hate.

dearleader
08-07-2011, 03:45 AM
Maveric, that list looks pretty sleek. I love having win conditions in the SB with this deck so there's no truly dead draws. Have you considered running some Intuition so you can search for Dream Halls and protection? One of the best parts of LDV was that it flexible - often I absolutely needed Dream Halls to win when Progenitus couldn't race, and sometimes I just wanted protection. Burning Wish lists are nice, but I feel the inability to tutor for Dream Halls hurts the deck in some match ups where you need Dream Halls to win.

I don't think the deck as constructed needs to run 4 Intuition, but maybe 2-3 as additional Dream Halls would be good.

Also, with Temporal Fissure and Austere Command, I'm not sure if Time Stretch is worth the sideboard slot. It seems like those two cards plus the handful of counters from Confluxes should handle almost any game state well enough to get 2 attacks in with Progenitus. There are probably some corner cases I'm not thinking of, but I'm not sure if that marginal benefit justifies the extra sideboard slot. I guess Time Stretch is an important out when some Confluxes have been discarded and Burning Wishes have been used. And, if you can generate that much storm every time, you could also just Tendrils them. Anyways, in particular, I was thinking that cards like Meltdown and Eye of Nowhere could be useful as utility cards before comboing off.

Maveric78f
08-09-2011, 03:42 AM
2/3* Intuition (in place of 1 top, and 1 F/I) might be a good idea, at least for G1. Post SB, I'd prefer to side them out because of Extirpate and Surgical Extraction.

However, I'm not a big fan of removing Time Stretch from the SB. Because Intuition on Conflux would prevent us from storming efficiently. And I would also be afraid of my opponent playing land + Innocent Blood with back-up or several in 2 turns.

What would be Meltdown for ? I recall that you play F/I to deal with Trinisphere or Canonist. I cannot think of another really annoying spell (except chalice@2, but you can't BW under it anyway...). Eye of Nowhere is pretty useless since it's a sorcery and I don't think you'll have a lot of opportunity to play Eye + DH in the same turn. If your plan is to Eye + SnT, then it basically does nothing... (except for Meddling Mage, but once more, F/I and Firespout are more effective to deal with it)

phazonmutant
02-29-2012, 10:05 PM
Maverick - I tested your build a bit and liked it, but I'm really not a fan of the control elements you're trying to do. I think you're underestimating the raw speed element - not very many decks are equipped to handle a t1-2 Progenitus, much less a Dream Halls kill. Lotus Petal and sol lands have been consistently good for me and somewhat make up for running only 19 lands when you have to hardcast Dream Halls. Top is absolutely slower than Ponder but does pretty much the same job.
My biggest concern, though, is that you play all these 2s! The biggest advantage of the Sneak and Show deck that David McDarby has been doing very well with is that it's completely immune to Spell Snare - a 4-of in half the decks. Intuition does the same job when you run 5-6 sol lands (although you do have to play around Surgical) except it can also tutor for DH or FoW in a pinch. The added consistency of the best card in your deck (S&T) also helps.

Why aren't you running Blood Moon in the board? Instead of a million BW targets, it seems like it would be better to get a card that absolutely locks out a RUG deck - the deck with the best chance of racing your plan B of Progenitus.

This is what I'm leaning towards:
4 Dream Halls
4 Conflux
3 Progenitus
1 False Cure
1 Beacon of Immortality
4 Show and Tell
4 Intuition
1 Preordain
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Lotus Petal
2 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
2 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
3 Blood Moon
1 Pyroclasm
4 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Shattering Spree
1 Misdirection
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth

This deck is aimed to be as fast as possible, which means (1) emphasizing S&T, (2) having a valid plan B (Progenitus), and (3) allowing me to set up quickly with disruption. (3) is trickiest because it means you want your combo to be compact enough that you're not drawing tons of redundant pieces instead of cantrips or interaction. That and defeating all the incidental lifegain in the format led me to the Beacon+Cure.

Malacoda
02-29-2012, 10:24 PM
I have also been working with Dream Halls, but with a redless list. I could definitely consider adding red, however:

Lands
5 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn

Protection & Cantrips
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
2 Preordain

Combo:
4 Show and Tell
4 Progenitus
4 Conflux
4 Dream Halls
4 Lim-Dûl's Vault
3 Lotus Petal
1 Beacon of Immortality
1 False Cure
1 Memory's Journey

SB: 4 Spell Pierce
SB: 3 Deathmark
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Echoing Truth

Here's something I've noticed in testing: Force of Will is a very bad card for this deck. The nature of Dream Halls means that we need 2 cards in hand once we drop Halls. If we have a game like this:

T1: Land, Go
T2: Land, Cantrip, Go
T3: Show and Tell, Dream Halls, Force of Will exiling ______

then there is actually a fair chance of us not having enough cards to abuse Dream Halls with. For this reason, I've considered Spell Pierce (cool to see you using it main) and Daze, but both of these significantly slow the combo down, as Daze is obvious tempo loss and Spell Pierce requires an open blue before comboing. I do think the deck has real potential. Red is probably the way to go, but I don't think Blood Moon is really the right idea for the board. We aren't SneakShow.

Water_Wizard
02-29-2012, 11:56 PM
I've been fooling around with this deck and playing some games with it on MTGO. I've been using the Cruel Ultimatum / Bogardan Hellkite after I read Drew Levin's article here: (it's deck #3) http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/23401_The_Ten_Coolest_Decks_In_Legacys_History.html

I also built a UW Chant version and a mono-blue version with Pact of Negation.
The UW version had the added effect of Path to Exile from the board for problem creatures like Teeg and Canonist. However, the Chant effects added a mana, although they were sometimes helpful against Storm decks. The mono-blue version had a more consistent mana base (as would be expected with any one color deck) and the idea behind the Pacts was that I was going to win the turn I went off so I would never have to pay.

I haven't tried the Beacon/False Cure kill yet, but it looks stronger for a few reasons.

So far, I'm 3-2 in my limited matches. I split 1-1 with mono-black pox (1-2, 2-0 games). 2 of my wins I went off quickly and 1 of them I was able to land a Dream Halls and then slowly build up 2 cards through discard with Conflux. Cruel Ultimatum has the added benefit of you drawing cards, so it gives you fuel to discard.

I also played a mono-white taxes deck and won all but 1 game. He really had no way to interact with me besides taxing me out with Thalia (worked 1 game combined with a quick start) or using Karakas/Exile a permanent guy (which was always too slow).

AriLax
03-11-2012, 11:11 PM
Played this at the GP. The exact version was made by couple of MI guys (Will + James Heslip for those from the area). I barely missed D2, but James T64ed and another guy (Vivek) played a Hive Mind deck based on it b/c he didn't have Dream Halls cards and almost top 8'ed. Deck was very impressive and would have been more had we played more graveyard hate (6/10 losses I have data on were to Dredge/Reanimator). Article on it is going up Tuesday, but here's the list for now:

4 Dream Halls
4 Conflux
1 Beacon of Immortality
1 False Cure
4 Show and Tell
4 Progenitus
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Echoing Truth
4 Intuition
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Preordain
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
5 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Ravenous Trap
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Dispel
2 Gigadrowse
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away

Norm
03-13-2012, 10:59 AM
Ari, have you considered Memory's Journey?

AriLax
03-13-2012, 02:31 PM
Ari, have you considered Memory's Journey?

It reminds me of the 2nd Tendrils in Storm. There are RARE cases it matters, but most of the time it's just a brick.

Malakai
03-13-2012, 02:58 PM
Add this to the list of Pros:
Every time you cast Gigadrowse, you blow your opponent's mind.

Dark Ritual
03-13-2012, 04:39 PM
Eh, gigadrowse is bad against fetchlands like Ari stated in his article. The card is absolutely hilarious, and you can make the stupidest references to pokemon when you play the card. Imagine tapping out then saying "GIGABLAST YOU!!!!!" on their end step, that would be epic (sort've.)

The beacon/cure kill condition is the best in all probability, sure it targets but conflux is basically super demonic tutor with dream halls active as in you can get 10 cards in hand so bounce is rather easy to fit in as a one of target, wipe away is the best option because the opponent can't do anything about it.

On memory's journey, I thought it odd that it wasn't included. It fights through surgical extraction pretty handily and makes it so discard doesn't wreck your combo, sure you can still just S&T progenitus in but I prefer to not have to attack twice unless you resolve a time stretch to beat down with ease. Are you allowed to flashback memory's journey by pitching a blue card though? Not sure on that one, but I'm guessing no would be the answer.

Overall, I decided to build this deck simply because I've always wanted to cast conflux in a legacy event.

On the cruel ultimatum kill, it takes up too many slots while beacon cure takes up the lowest amount of slots possible discounting just bashing them with progenitus until they die but that kill is significantly weaker unless you get turn 2 progenitus.

I do have a question about the manabase though, is 19 lands enough? I was goldfishing your list Ari and sometimes I just couldn't get above 2 lands despite casting a lot of cantrips although maybe it's just the shuffler on cockatrice being a piece of crap.

ThomasDowd
03-13-2012, 09:53 PM
On the off chance they let your show and tell resolve (let's say they see your line) and you are down to conflux plus a card. and they counter that, do you just lose on the spot? or even 3 cards being force, conflux, colored card.

Basically if they know whats going on can you recover from having your conflux countered?

AriLax
03-13-2012, 09:57 PM
On the off chance they let your show and tell resolve (let's say they see your line) and you are down to conflux plus a card. and they counter that, do you just lose on the spot? or even 3 cards being force, conflux, colored card.

Basically if they know whats going on can you recover from having your conflux countered?

Depends on their deck. High Tide? Yeah, fucking cold. UW? I mean, just dig for another Conflux and see what happens. I've actually won that exact game the one time it did happen.

Also, these are both scenarios of going off without disruption back. If you are doing that, you know what the deal is.


Edit: Also, turbo tournament report.

Rd 4: UR Delver
G1: He wins the roll, goes T1 Delver, T2 flip revealing Ponder, land, Goblin Guide, attack for 5, ship the turn. I die a horrible death when he has the afore-telegraphed Spell Pierce.
G2 + G3: He plays Grim Lavamancer on turn 1. I have a million turns to durdle around and eventually kill him.

Round 5: TES
G1: He wins the die roll, I keep a cantrip based hand. I die on turn 3 through a Force of Will. Had him dead on my 3 :(.
G2: He tanks on 2, decides not to combo. He dies on my 3.
G3: He mulls to 4, I make a T0 Leyline. I land a Progenitus as he builds up a grip and he starts going off after the first hit. He does a bunch of stuff while I'm Silenced, but he was playing Bryant's 75. AKA had boarded in Pyroblast and not bounce, and had Pyroclasm over Virtue's Ruin. Scoreboard!

Round 6: Maverick
G1: I Force his T2 Knight and Show a 10/10. He puts in Mindcensor, untaps, and plays a 2nd Noble Hierarch and a Sword of Light and Shadow before bashing (13-20). I crash (13-10), he equips, plays Mystic for Sword of Fire and Ice, and crashes. I don't have the Echoing Truth and die.
G2: He goes Mom, Canonist off a mull to 6 and I Show on 3. I debate Prog vs. Dream Halls. I have the fear of Progging because of testing showing it was easy to lose with and the fact he gets first blood off Mom, so I Halls. I EOT Intuition for Conflux on his turn, he has Mindcensor and I get demolished. Made a large punt, didn't do race math. He basically needs an equip to race 10/10 in this case, was worried about extra turn from a Swords (called he was good enough to leave in 2 to race and he was) but math worked out fine.

Round 7: High Tide
G1: Make 10/10. 10/10 bash.
G2: Things go deep. He Surgicals my Dream Halls and I have to double Force pitching Shows to stop a combo through a Flusterstorm. He comboes before I find a Show.
G3: I keep Tomb, Bstorm, Ponder, Force, Dispel, Conflux, Halls on the play. I get punished for getting greedy. I figured I was around 55% to hit in time to be fine, which is better than a mull here. Maybe I'm wrong, IDK.

Round 8: UW Stoneforge
G1: I mull, which puts me off of going off with enough backup at any relevant time. I die. Might have pushed too early, but I'm unsure.
G2: He has no clock and blows some Brainstorms, I durdle and kill him.
G3: He tries to clock, but has no counters besides Spell Snares. I durdle and kill him.

Round 9: Dredge
G1: He wins the roll. I keep a T3 kill with cantrips in the Dark. He has T1 LED, Study, sac in reponse, hit another dredger on the dredge, hit a Looting. I die a horrible death.
G2: I keep Show, Halls, Conflux, Bstorm, 2 Lands, X on the play. He has the T1 again, Brainstorm misses on Force/Daze/Trap/Surgical/Tomb. His Thug dredge hits another dredger, but no Narcos or Lootings. I punt and stack Bstorm wrong and let him Therapy both my Halls next turn instead of hiding one and winning on 3.

ThomasDowd
03-14-2012, 12:18 AM
Depends on their deck. High Tide? Yeah, fucking cold. UW? I mean, just dig for another Conflux and see what happens. I've actually won that exact game the one time it did happen.

Also, these are both scenarios of going off without disruption back. If you are doing that, you know what the deal is.




Fair enough. Just making sure I was thinking about it correctly, seems sweet with less dead cards than hive mind. (Slightly less protection but not really considering pact is like half of a card).
almost unloaded my show and tells since they were rotting in my reanimator sideboard. glad i could put them to some more use.

how relevant was damage off of tomb, would the 4th be that painful? I hate playing more than one city, but understand the split.

AriLax
03-14-2012, 03:04 PM
Fair enough. Just making sure I was thinking about it correctly, seems sweet with less dead cards than hive mind. (Slightly less protection but not really considering pact is like half of a card).
almost unloaded my show and tells since they were rotting in my reanimator sideboard. glad i could put them to some more use.

how relevant was damage off of tomb, would the 4th be that painful? I hate playing more than one city, but understand the split.

The 4th Tomb probably isn't unreasonable. I would definitely advise against it if you expect Goblin Guides all over the place though.

sixquestionmarks
03-14-2012, 04:50 PM
I'm wondering why no Lotus Petals? Is it because it's another non colored card that you can't pitch to conflux or are addtional cantrips just better? From what I found out when I played an older list of the deck and Petals always led to the "Oops I win" hands, but were usually miserable after turn 4.

AriLax
03-14-2012, 09:50 PM
I'm wondering why no Lotus Petals? Is it because it's another non colored card that you can't pitch to conflux or are addtional cantrips just better? From what I found out when I played an older list of the deck and Petals always led to the "Oops I win" hands, but were usually miserable after turn 4.

I just like actual lands, but I debated about playing 1-2.

leegoo
03-15-2012, 07:44 AM
Did you try out Pact of Negation? From looking at the list, (and I admit I've done no more than shuffle it up once or twice) the lack of PoN is the only thing that gives me pause in saying this is just a much cleaner/better hive mind deck. Like in HM, you don't care about the next turn, you want to win pretty fast, and on your combo turn you'd rather PoN than Force if possible.

Daze is certainly fine looking, but there is something to be said about having 8 free hard counters when you are trying to push through.

LegacyStudent
03-15-2012, 11:07 AM
Have you considered running Research // Development and moving the kill to the SB? It adds another step to the combo, but it cuts the MD wincon slots down to a single card.

StRAy_PunK
03-15-2012, 09:15 PM
I played in the gp last weekend with dream halls. I did not take great notes but I figured id share.
R1. against U-R delver (Rob)
G1.
he has a clock but not too fast, around turn 5 I cast show and tell with plenty of back up and win.
G2.
He comes out very fast and has two fow
G3.
he mulligans twice, I turn 3 thoughtseize see nothing turn 4 win

1-0-0
R2. against U-R delver (ben)
G1.
I keep a bad hand for no real reason still do not know what didn't make me throw it back. I lose without doing anything
G2.
I turn 4 show and tell he looks distressed since he did not know what deck I was on and the game ends.
G3.
I try to push dream halls threw twice this game with backup and he had enough fow and reb blast to stop me.

1-1-0
R3. against U-W-G midrange (scott)
G1.
I keep a solid hand, but never hit 3lands, just sit and filter forever and die.
G2.
I turn 3 him with thoughtsieze clearing the way turn 2
G3.
He keeps a hand that is trash. Like two non-blue lands a scavenging ooze and a bunch of 3drop dudes. I thoughtseize him turn1 to push threw turn2 burning wish, i see a bunch of nothing and pass. Turn 2 I play burning wish he fow. Turn 4 i play thought seize again to clear the way for intution, see 3drop dudes + elspeth then pass (I missed a land drop). Turn 5 i play intution he fow. so my hand is now something like nucklavee, cruel, dream halls x2. I sit on 3 lands and die. :(

1-2-0
R4. Affinity (leon)
This guy was new to legacy are magic idk, he made a lot of mistakes and this is an easy mu, I win 2-0 in about 12min.

2-2-0
R5. 12 post (Weston)
this mu is a joke for dreamhalls, he has no clock and no counters. 2-0

3-2-0
R6. Affinity (kristenia)
G1. was actually close she plays her whole hand basicly T1 then starts g blasting me. I win turn 3-4 at 4 life.
G2. this game was close as well she again is on the play and has 6dmg on the field for he swing next turn. I again win turn 3-4 at 4 life

4-2-0
R7. Enchantress (jhon)
G1. he plays a bunch of irrelevant cards and i kill him turn 4.
G2. he mulligans twice and i Mull once as well. he starts with a leyline in play. he turn 2 puts a sterling grove into play, turn3 he puts a sterling grove into play, turn 4 he plays another leyline,turn 5 another leyline, turn 6 to enchantress effects, and turn 7 a solitary confinement with 3 groves still in play, i scoop shortly after. this game did not have me feeling good lol.
G3. he mulls 3 times to try to hit leyline. he does. i turn 3 show and tell in dream halls and kill him.

5-2-0
R8. Spiral tide (caleb)
G1. i play show and tell turn 3 since he is tapped out as he scrolled for high tide and played candles. he lets show and tell resolve. I play cruel, he plays fow I play fow he discards a card to play meditate with no hand. hits blue card to pitch to play cunning wish and then a blue card to pitch to play the disrupt he wished for. I pass he land pass. i do nothing for next to turns he draws high tide then timespiral next two turns :S
G2. I play dream halls on turn 3-4. I play cruel he plays fow i play fow he plays fow and im out of cards and pass. he goes off. with 9-12 storm he plays timespiral. I am tapped out but draw, cruel, brainstorm?, niv-mizzet, reb, reb, fow, ponder?. I stop him by pitching ponder to fow, cruel to reb and niv to reb. I go for turn with brainstorm in hand and nothing else. I rip cruel off the top (felt good). I cruel him pitching brainstorm. I cruel into land land land boom. I take first free turn since he meditated twice. i draw dreamhalls then discard it to play the niv i pitched to reb and got back with cruel. Take second free turn draw land and swing with niv. he goes he has been shut down by 3 counters and cruel so his hand is not in happy spot and he passes. I top deck sensie's top play it and spin it, see another top :wink: i put it on top then tap the top in play to draw it and put it on top, I use the absured amount of lands I have to do this 9ish times and he dies to niv from it. This happened when we had allready timed so we did not get a game 3. I give him the win since I got the feeling that he would not do the same for me and I figured I might as well give him the chance to day two since he was an ok opponent.
So I drop :(.

Over all the deck played fine there is still some improvements I'am going to toy with and I need to go back to basic magic school and learn to mulligan :S.

If you are curious this was my list. (with slightly different sideboard I did not have my traps on me... so pro)
[/deck]

// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [R] Volcanic Island
2 [R] Underground Sea
1 [R] Badlands
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [A] Island (2)
1 [A] Swamp (2)
1 [A] Mountain (2)

// Creatures
1 [EVE] Nucklavee
1 [GP] Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [SH] Dream Halls
4 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [JU] Burning Wish
1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
2 [AP] Fire/Ice
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [TE] Intuition
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [EX] Mind Over Matter

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 2 [A] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [PT] Cruel Tutor
SB: 1 [CFX] Conflux
SB: 1 [PT] Virtue's Ruin
SB: 1 [CHK] Eye of Nowhere
SB: 2 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [US] Meltdown
SB: 1 [RAV] Compulsive Research
SB: 1 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 3 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
[/deck]

Cacks
03-20-2012, 02:11 PM
Apologies in advance for a post that is somewhat a stream of conciousness.

Is this not an alternative possible kill (which also does not mind if one of your kill cards is discarded at some point)?

4 conflux
2 progentius
2 gaea's blessing
1 brainfreeze/cunning wish (for brainfreeze)/another spell like fire/ice

Cutting out some early steps where you might conflux to gather FoW into hand etc, so assuming you have a conflux or two in the 'yard, the main loop is:

Conflux for: conflux, progenitus, progenitus, gaea's blessing, [any card]

discard progenitus (goes back into the deck, obv) to gaea's blessing back any confluxes in the 'yard (and incidentally draw a card).

discard progenitus, conflux for conflux, progenitus, progenitus, gaea's blessing, [a card] again. You now have one conflux and one blessing in the 'yard, and the infinite loop starts.

gaea's blessing again, returning conflux, blessing and any other card you want to your library. You now have one more card in hand (and some storm built) and again one conflux and one blessing in the 'yard.

conflux again for conflux, progenitus, progenitus, gaea's blessing, [a card] to repeat the loop ad nauseum.

Finally brain freeze for a lot (possibly with a cunning wish thrown in to get it out of your sideboard); or for the fire/ice kill cast infinite 'fires' by recycling it from your graveyard.

This only needs 9 cards in theory, although if you ever intend on having the flexibility of casting cunning wish for value, as opposed to at the end of the combo, you need two, since it is removed from the game and you need a 'spare'. I've not worked it through, but I suspect that for a fire/ice kill (or the like) you will need a second fire/ice or 3rd progenitus to provide the red mana to cast fire during the loop - I presume that blue will not do it, despite the rule oddities surrounding split cards! In either case you are back up to 10 cards.

The advantage is that you replace clunky cards (progenitus, beacon of immortality etc) for cards which are much more useful outside of the combo turn (fire ice, wish, blessing). Of course if you have a show and tell in hand, the protection from everything hydra suddenly looks awfully good in comparison!

Anyway, I do not for a moment suggest that this is the stone cold killer, indeed it may be cr@p, but I just thought I'd toss it out there.

hofzge
03-22-2012, 05:12 AM
I'd much rather make the combo itself a bit more resilitent. It is really important that once you pull off the combo you have some protection, but also that the moment of pulling it off is at the latest on turn 4.

Here is what I would suggest:

4 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls
4 Conflux
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Intuition
1 Beacon Of Immortality
1 False Cure
4 Force of Will
3 Pact of Negation
4 Progenitus
2 Lotus Petal
5 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
SB: 3 Dispel
SB: 2 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity


Also I think the Pacts of Negation are better for the dack as you can seldomly return an island and be happy about it. I also added the Leylines of Sanctity, as discard is very hard with the already steep requirements of pitching cards that Dream Halls brings. That's also why I don't like the Force of Will, but as often it is a necessary evil.

The changes make the deck look more like a monocolor Hive Mind deck - I don't know if that if good or not.

NesretepNoj
04-04-2012, 07:19 PM
Having played Dream Halls the last two tournaments I can attest the viability of the deck.

Danish Legacy Masters (89 players) (first time playing the deck not counting some cockatrice gold fishing):
Imperial Painter: 1-2-1
Aluren: 0-2
Souls Sisters: 2-0
UR Delver: 2-1
Affinity: 2-1
Maverick: 2-0
UGr Threshold: 1-2 (he conceded though hoping to put me into T16)
-- Result: 18th.

Local Bi-Weekly Legacy Event (27 players):
Bw Dead Guy: 2-0
UBr Storm: 1-1-1
Burn: 2-0
Bw Dead Guy: 2-1
Maverick: 2-0
-- Result: 1st.

Total Record: 8-3-1 (9-2-1 on paper).

Played the same main deck in both tournaments:
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Flooded Strand
5 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
3 Daze
1 False Cure
4 Intuition
4 Show and Tell
1 Wipe Away
4 Dream Halls
4 Force of Will
1 Beacon of Immortality
4 Conflux
4 Progenitus

Current sideboard:
2 Divert
3 Spell Pierce
2 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Ravenous Trap

The deck is pretty consistent and really fun to play. I'm not sure, that the main deck bounce spell is really needed. The Diverts in the sideboard is for Esper Blade, as a way to fight their discard without bringing in Leylines and still acting as a counter. The three Spell Pierces was really great against storm. I might cut a Progenitus from the main deck, as you never want to see two and they're usually not fast enough.

ThediscoPower
04-05-2012, 12:36 AM
Hello everyone. I had a little question concerning this deck. I am actually going to run Dream Halls tomorrow in a local tournament, however, the problem is, I am not going to have my 4 intuitions before at least the end of the week. My question is, what can I run instead, until I can get my intuitions? Do I go for 4 lotus petal in order to be more explosive? Do I go for 4 ancestral memories, as I saw a very old list run, and get a way to dig like a champ, for all the good that's gonna do? Or is lim-dul's vault the best option? Note that I like the mono color version best (less disruptable) , but if the best option is that card, I guess I can always transfer the underground seas from my storm deck in here for tomorrow. These are the options I can think of so far, please feel free to propose other options too. Or, if I can rephrase the whole thing, if I can't have a strong tutor like intuition in the deck, How do I try to even out the loss?

Thanks for helping me out there, I am completely bugged here.

MoT_Pestilence
04-05-2012, 08:37 AM
Hello everyone. I had a little question concerning this deck. I am actually going to run Dream Halls tomorrow in a local tournament, however, the problem is, I am not going to have my 4 intuitions before at least the end of the week. My question is, what can I run instead, until I can get my intuitions? Do I go for 4 lotus petal in order to be more explosive? Do I go for 4 ancestral memories, as I saw a very old list run, and get a way to dig like a champ, for all the good that's gonna do? Or is lim-dul's vault the best option? Note that I like the mono color version best (less disruptable) , but if the best option is that card, I guess I can always transfer the underground seas from my storm deck in here for tomorrow. These are the options I can think of so far, please feel free to propose other options too. Or, if I can rephrase the whole thing, if I can't have a strong tutor like intuition in the deck, How do I try to even out the loss?

Thanks for helping me out there, I am completely bugged here.

I would run the black version with the vault if you don't have the intuition. Of course replace them as soon as you get the intuitions and get back to mono blue asap, but lim dul's vault is really the next best thing.

NesretepNoj
04-05-2012, 10:40 AM
Hello everyone. I had a little question concerning this deck. I am actually going to run Dream Halls tomorrow in a local tournament, however, the problem is, I am not going to have my 4 intuitions before at least the end of the week. My question is, what can I run instead, until I can get my intuitions? Do I go for 4 lotus petal in order to be more explosive? Do I go for 4 ancestral memories, as I saw a very old list run, and get a way to dig like a champ, for all the good that's gonna do? Or is lim-dul's vault the best option? Note that I like the mono color version best (less disruptable) , but if the best option is that card, I guess I can always transfer the underground seas from my storm deck in here for tomorrow. These are the options I can think of so far, please feel free to propose other options too. Or, if I can rephrase the whole thing, if I can't have a strong tutor like intuition in the deck, How do I try to even out the loss?

Thanks for helping me out there, I am completely bugged here.

I know this isn't sounding very constructive, but if you aren't able to get the Intuitions in time and you actually own a storm-deck, I'd much rather run the latter. By switching to Lim-Dûl's Vault you are opening yourself up to both Wasteland and Spell Snare. Even with Intuitions, the deck has problems having enough cards in hand during the combo-turn. LDV also makes it much harder, when you have Dream Halls on the table, but no Conflux in hand. But otherwise, yes, then LDV is probably the best option.

ThediscoPower
04-05-2012, 11:16 AM
Alright thanks for the inputs, I appreciate a lot. I will go for for the vaults for today, and try to get a feel for the deck (it's only a small local tournament, so i'm not losing much here. ). I will definitely report back here to let you know how it went. Also, another quick question, if I go for a UB version, should I also try to fit the thoughseizes in when i'm at it?

TerribleTim68
04-05-2012, 11:52 AM
So you guys are just running the False Cure (http://deckbox.org/mtg/False%20Cure) / Beacon of Immortality (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Beacon%20of%20Immortality) win condition now? No more Cruel Ultimatum (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cruel%20Ultimatum)?

I'm slowly putting this together just for fun at the local tourney and just trying to get a feel for the best build. Why did Cruel Ultimatum (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cruel%20Ultimatum) get cut? And what is wrong with running Lim-Dul's Vault (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lim-Dûl's%20Vault) along with Intuition (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Intuition)?

ThomasDowd
04-05-2012, 03:22 PM
Why did Cruel Ultimatum (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cruel%20Ultimatum) get cut?
Takes up too many slots



And what is wrong with running Lim-Dul's Vault (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lim-Dûl's%20Vault) along with Intuition (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Intuition)?

open's you up to wasteland and spell snare as stated above, and the card disadvantage is pretty huge.

Dark Ritual
04-06-2012, 02:06 PM
Intuition is close to an instant speed demonic tutor for 2U, that's why it's run in this deck.

Also, beacon cure takes up 2 slots. Cruel ultimatum is a really cool card but it takes up more than double the slots for the kill. The only real reason I've seen for running cruel ultimatum is to support red blast/pyroblast out of the board, as you can then pitch hellkite, cruel, conflux, and progenitus to cast REB as a pseudo FoW with dream halls in play as well as REB being one of the best counterspells in legacy since blue is so prevalent.

LDV's card disadvantage is not worth it. You need a critical mass of cards in hand in order to combo out, and LDV hurts that and can delay you a turn.

AriLax
04-06-2012, 05:11 PM
And what is wrong with running Lim-Dul's Vault (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lim-Dûl's%20Vault) along with Intuition (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Intuition)?


1. Spell Snare.

2. Black mana. Never getting Wastelanded ever etc.

3. Dream Halls + Intuition + 2 colored cards = GG. Doesn't work with Vault.

ThediscoPower
04-06-2012, 11:06 PM
Intuition is close to an instant speed demonic tutor for 2U, that's why it's run in this deck.

Also, beacon cure takes up 2 slots. Cruel ultimatum is a really cool card but it takes up more than double the slots for the kill. The only real reason I've seen for running cruel ultimatum is to support red blast/pyroblast out of the board, as you can then pitch hellkite, cruel, conflux, and progenitus to cast REB as a pseudo FoW with dream halls in play as well as REB being one of the best counterspells in legacy since blue is so prevalent.

LDV's card disadvantage is not worth it. You need a critical mass of cards in hand in order to combo out, and LDV hurts that and can delay you a turn.


Oh man did I experience the LDV card disadvantage first hand Thursday lol. It really slowed me down a whole turn in nearly every games, and because I was only running 3 sources capable of providing 2 mana (3 ancient tomb), my version really was one turn too slow to take off, and requiring black mana to activate LDV. After playing it out the whole night, I can say that intuition cannot do worse that LDV did for me, and good bye wastelandable Underground Sea.

Furthermore, I will add in those extra ''accelerators'' in the form of either city of traitors, crystal veins, chrome mox or lotus petal. This brings me to another question, which one would be better? I saw Ari lax's list running city of traitors, but my fear with it is the sacrifice draw back if I get stuck with it as the second land.

ThomasDowd
04-12-2012, 12:24 PM
Oh man did I experience the LDV card disadvantage first hand Thursday lol. It really slowed me down a whole turn in nearly every games, and because I was only running 3 sources capable of providing 2 mana (3 ancient tomb), my version really was one turn too slow to take off, and requiring black mana to activate LDV. After playing it out the whole night, I can say that intuition cannot do worse that LDV did for me, and good bye wastelandable Underground Sea.

Furthermore, I will add in those extra ''accelerators'' in the form of either city of traitors, crystal veins, chrome mox or lotus petal. This brings me to another question, which one would be better? I saw Ari lax's list running city of traitors, but my fear with it is the sacrifice draw back if I get stuck with it as the second land.

the acceleration in mana is always worth it even more than the draw back, you pretty much don;t care about sacrificing and most of the time you can set it up so it is not your second land.

MoT_Pestilence
04-15-2012, 11:09 PM
My brother just made top 4 at the SCG Super IQ in Fenton today. Undefeated until his loss in the quarterfinals to NO-Bant.

planeswalkerzen
04-17-2012, 05:15 AM
So I recently got interested in this deck and this is my list:
4 Progenitus

4 Dream Halls

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Intuition
4 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
4 Conflux
3 Preordain
3 Flusterstorm
1 Pact of Negation
1 False Curse
1 Beacon of Immortality

3 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
5 Island

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Dispel
1 Spell Snare
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Time Stretch

Reasons for the card choices:
-3 Daze
+3 Flusterstorm
I find the slots for Daze to be really loose. Considering most answers right now that are sorcery speed come in 2 mana (Hymm, Canonist, Thalia, Disenchant etc), Spell Snare seems better as Daze does put you back a land which seems really bad. Against Hymm decks if your slowing back a turn, it seems like it just gives your opponent more time to get rid of your hand and against aggro decks with Thalia, the one turn could be all they need to kill you. If counter wars etc is the problem, then Pact of Negation seems much better. I feel like you want one or the other and it feels like Daze just kind of tries to do a loose job of both. It seems like Flusterstorm will be better if your wanting a counterspell that can help in both situations.

-1 Wipe Away
+1 Pact of Negation
I don't see much use for the bounce spells as against Thalia, you will need a ton of mana to pay the extra 1 mana to cast Dream Halls (or Show and Tell), 1 extra for Conflux AND 1 extra to cast the wipe away. Against Gaddok Teeg, you need the Wipe Away in hand already. It seems like instead of having such a conditional card in your hand, a 5th "free counter" would be better.

Sideboard:
-3 Ravenous Trap and -1 Surgical Extraction
+4 Leyline of the Void

Leyline seems much better as you don't mind too much even if its not in your opening hand as hopefully hands without them will have more combo pieces aka faster combo. If you do have it in your opening hand, it gives you more breathing space. I feel like Ravenous Trap is worse at buying you time as dredge decks can just start resembling their GY again if you have a slow hand etc. I can see the uses from Surgical as it is good against decks like High Tide as well, but in those MUs I rather just more counterspells.

-2 Gigadrose
+1 Spell Snare +1 Time Stretch
Gigadrose seems bad in general. As I already have 3 Flusterstorm, instead of dedicating for Spell Pierce etc I went for 1 Spell Snare. It may seem very random and out of place, but its mainly for Maverick where all their hate bears are 2 mana and Flusterstorm does very little etc. The Time Stretch is against decks with Leyline of Sanctity so you can cast Progenitus and then cast Time Stretch to win. It can also act as a "5th" Conflux in the way that you can probably combo out with Dream Halls without having a Conflux (if your hand has other draw spells etc in the two turns you can probably find your way out).

LMK what you guys think about my choices. I would deff like to hear what you guys think about my choices as I just picked up the deck so this is pretty much all theory crafting.

NesretepNoj
04-17-2012, 09:35 AM
I hate the Daze as well. However, you do need the extra counters and they come in handy sometimes (people usually don't play around them). As you pointed out some of our worst enemies cost two. Setting yourself back a turn is bad, but holding mana up is bad as well. Daze is primarily against RUG Delver, against who, it is often a hard counter and lets you fight over your Intuitions. Against the blue blade decks, your goal is to combo out, when they tap out for something like Jace or Lingering Souls, still making it somewhat live.

Flusterstorm seems cool and of course comes with the added bonus of really helping in the storm match up. The problem as I see it is, that you never have six mana, so it only works in conjunction with Show and Tell. It also doesn't interact with Thalia, Jace or Lilliana.

Last tournament I ran three Spell Pierces in the board. My plan is to go up to four. I don't own Flusterstorms so I currently can't test them IRL. Please share your experience with them, if you get to do so.

My current board:
4 Spell Pierce
2 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Ravenous Trap

I like to have four bounce spells against deck with permanent based hate and it has been really good so far. Dredge is such a bad match up in my opinion, that I don't wan't to dedicate four slots. Last time I faced Dredge in a tournament I played Hive Mind with Leylines. I miraculously beat him game one and then he went to crush my through Leyline in game two and three. Many Dredge-players expect them these days and don't play around traps, so I'll better take my chances and save a slot. I've only used traps once IRL, but they totally screwed the Dredge player.

The board above only counts 14, so it might be a graveyard piece anyways. I've been testing three Progenitus and have been fine, so the fourth might go into this slot and go up to four Preordains.

TerribleTim68
04-20-2012, 07:30 PM
... Dredge is such a bad match up in my opinion, that I don't wan't to dedicate four slots. Last time I faced Dredge in a tournament I played Hive Mind with Leylines. I miraculously beat him game one and then he went to crush my through Leyline in game two and three. Many Dredge-players expect them these days and don't play around traps, so I'll better take my chances and save a slot. I've only used traps once IRL, but they totally screwed the Dredge player...

I got lucky against my Dredge opponent, all be it in a wierd way. I lost game 1 pretty quickly. Game 2 I sided in 4 Leylines and 3 Sergicals (I board them all because I hate graveyard based decks a lot. They help against Dredge, Reanimator, Delver, Spiral Tide, threshold, and on and on). So game 2 I only saw the Sergicals, so I went on to win via sergicalling the hell out of em. Game 3 they sided out their Leyline answers thinking I didn't have em and cried when I dropped a Leyline from my opening hand to start game 3. :cool:

Just had to share, it was epic! :cool:

rooneg
04-23-2012, 06:47 AM
Interesting Dream Halls deck in the top 8 of SCG Birmingham:

5 Island
4 Force of Will
4 Progenitus
4 Conflux
2 City of Traitors
1 Army of the Damned
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
1 Flooded Strand
1 Temporal Manipulation
4 Dream Halls
4 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Intuition
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Show and Tell
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest

Uses two separate Conflux chain kill conditions, Cruel Ultimatum and Army of the Damned/Temporal Manipulation. To make room for all of that he drops a bunch of Preordain and some bounce. I'm not sure I get it. I mean if you're going to attack by swinging, why not just use Progenitus (which you already play) and Time Stretch? And Cruel Ultimatum just seems like a lot of slots, especially if you're making room by ditching cantrips.

Still, nice to see the deck doing well. Wish they'd put it on video, as opposed to the Hive Mind guy who kept making kind of sketchy plays.

ThediscoPower
04-24-2012, 01:09 AM
Interesting Dream Halls deck in the top 8 of SCG Birmingham:

5 Island
4 Force of Will
4 Progenitus
4 Conflux
2 City of Traitors
1 Army of the Damned
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
1 Flooded Strand
1 Temporal Manipulation
4 Dream Halls
4 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Intuition
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Show and Tell
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest

Uses two separate Conflux chain kill conditions, Cruel Ultimatum and Army of the Damned/Temporal Manipulation. To make room for all of that he drops a bunch of Preordain and some bounce. I'm not sure I get it. I mean if you're going to attack by swinging, why not just use Progenitus (which you already play) and Time Stretch? And Cruel Ultimatum just seems like a lot of slots, especially if you're making room by ditching cantrips.

Still, nice to see the deck doing well. Wish they'd put it on video, as opposed to the Hive Mind guy who kept making kind of sketchy plays.

Well, I think he played Temporal Manipulation because you can't misdirection it, instead of time warp or Time Stretch that actually target a player. Of course, this should only be relevant if you are casting that to stall for one turn (is that a good play? I think it can have its merits if you happen to have it in your hands and you are facing lethal next turn) because if you go off you should have a bunch of counters in hand to back it up. I guess it makes Temporal Manipulation a somewhat less of a dead card than Time Stretch.

Now, if we could get a tourney report from this guy somewhere, it would be the best thing to happen since the invention of peanut butter!! I am interested in seeing what he played against and if the extra slots for the extra combo hindered him at all.

JPA
04-24-2012, 02:01 PM
Since I am sure I want to play some Show and Tell deck in the current metagame, I have started looking into Dream Halls more and more (playing Sneak Show at the moment).

The deck is pretty similar to Hive Mind, less similar to Sneak Show, since it doesn't necessarily need to attack to win the game, which Sneak Show does. What made you guys in this thread choose Dream Halls over Sneak Show or Hive Mind? (my apologies if someone asked this before :tongue:)

rxavage
04-24-2012, 03:40 PM
Since I am sure I want to play some Show and Tell deck in the current metagame, I have started looking into Dream Halls more and more (playing Sneak Show at the moment).

The deck is pretty similar to Hive Mind, less similar to Sneak Show, since it doesn't necessarily need to attack to win the game, which Sneak Show does. What made you guys in this thread choose Dream Halls over Sneak Show or Hive Mind? (my apologies if someone asked this before :tongue:)

I've been asking the same question. I have my order ready to be processed and I would like to know why dream halls is better than sneak attack and hive mind. I already own the show and tells so it would only cost 260$ to complete dream halls.

Dark Ritual
04-24-2012, 04:06 PM
We can't lose to stifle like hive mind does, and we don't use the attack step. Also, casting conflux is infinitely funner than casting emrakul or pact of the titan.

Also, how is this dck $260 to complete when you already have show and tells? Dream halls costs 4 at most. Unless you don't have intuitions, I don't see how it can cost that much. But even intuition doesn't cost more than 140 for a set.

Also, once you resolve conflux you win the game on the spot with this deck. You opponent has no outs, as you get force of will instantly at least I do with conflux.

I also got 1st place at a 40 man local tournament last saturday, winning a savannah in the process. Piloting this deck to a 3-1-1 record in the swiss, my only loss was canadian thresh but I misplayed as well as probably misboarded as well. The 3 decks I beat in the swiss were UW stoneblade, burn, and UR sneaky show. In the top 8 I beat canadian thresh by a different player in the quarterfinals, beat the canadian thresh player I lost to previously, and then beat the same burn player in the finals. Although I love how almost no one knows that dream halls is symmetrical, as that got me a few free wins throughout the day. I played Ari's list from your article on SCG on dream halls, with a different SB:

4 Flusterstorm (outstanding all day, can't imagine not running with 4)
2 Spell Pierce
1 Dispel (this was also really solid, considering cutting back on pierce for 2 more copies as this is essentially counterspell for a single blue in this deck)
4 Ravenous Trap (extraordinarily useless, never boarded it in)
2 Surgical extraction
1 Wipe Away
1 Echoing Truth

Mr Miagi
04-24-2012, 04:39 PM
Also, once you resolve conflux you win the game on the spot with this deck. You opponent has no outs, as you get force of will instantly at least I do with conflux.

except if opponent has a quasali pridemage, krosan grip, disencahnt, naturalize if you wish and all dumb destroy target enchantment cards... There is still a thing called stack and priority, combined with a timed dream halls removal this deck is pretty much in a "pants down butt up" situation :really: A competent player will know how to screw you, and there is a lot more ways to deal with enchantment and conflux on the stack than it is with hive mind + pact (indeed there is stifle, but that's mostly only in rug..). Additionally there is the teeg, + cannonist that will slow you down a turn or lock you up entirely in teeg scenario..

You guys don't see these situations as a problem? Don't get me wrong, I find the dream halls a lot more epic but I find the hive mind a lot more resiliant and more of a "sure thing" deck.

rxavage
04-24-2012, 04:49 PM
We can't lose to stifle like hive mind does, and we don't use the attack step. Also, casting conflux is infinitely funner than casting emrakul or pact of the titan.

Also, how is this dck $260 to complete when you already have show and tells? Dream halls costs 4 at most. Unless you don't have intuitions, I don't see how it can cost that much. But even intuition doesn't cost more than 140 for a set.



4 intuition, 4 dream halls, 4 conflux, 3 progenitus, 2 city of traitors, 2 beacon of immortality, 2 false cure, and 3 cruel ultimatum. not all of it is necessary but I like to have options.



Also, if 4 flusterstorm is recommended then i need 2 more of those, so 290$ roughly.


BTW, congrats on your win.

JPA
04-24-2012, 05:16 PM
Don't get me wrong, I find the dream halls a lot more epic but I find the hive mind a lot more resiliant and more of a "sure thing" deck.

What Ari Lax said about Show and Tell in one of his SCG articles fits here: "Show and Tell is a broken card, but I just don't feel that it's enough to use it for cheating Emrakul or Progenitus into play." So the strongest Show and Tell strategy should be one that wins 100 % after a resolved Show and Tell.
Well, with all 3 major strategies (Dream Halls, Hive Mind, Creature) it is impossible to win 100 %, even if Show and Tell resolves. But in my opinion, Hive Mind is the one hardest to stop once it hits the battlefield. If you have Dream Halls, you can still get your Conflux countered. Once you have Hive Mind, every counter is countered immediately and all you need is a pact your opponent can't pay for.
Against the Fatties there are the most answers (Karakas, Wing Shards, perish, jace, moat, humility, peacekeeper, etc...), but in the Sneak Show build we are well equipped to fight the hate, since we play 2 creatures with different immunities and have 2 different ways to cheat them into play, of which one (Sneak Attack) protects them from things like Jace and also from Karakas (since we can just activate Sneak Attack again).

Overall, all 3 Show and Tell decks have their ups and downs. Hive Mind is probably the slowest one, and the combo is pretty hard to assemble, but once your Hive Mind is on the table, it's game over. Sneak Show is the most popular one and the one where you can't make that many mistakes playing it. Because of Lotus Petals, it is also the fastest.
Dream Halls is a little bit faster or more consistent in getting his namesake card onto the battlefield than Hive Mind, but from there it doesn't win as definitely.

I am still unsure which one is the best one for the current metagame..

Just my general opinion, I am open for discussion.

Dark Ritual
04-24-2012, 07:06 PM
4 intuition, 4 dream halls, 4 conflux, 3 progenitus, 2 city of traitors, 2 beacon of immortality, 2 false cure, and 3 cruel ultimatum. not all of it is necessary but I like to have options.



Also, if 4 flusterstorm is recommended then i need 2 more of those, so 290$ roughly.


BTW, congrats on your win.
I mostly assumed you had city of traitors, since you said you had sneak and show (the builds I'm familiar with, although I'm not really familiar with the sneak show archetype, run 2 city of traitors or more.) But yeah that totals out to be about 290 based on SCG prices, if you're patient you might be able to get it for less. I digress though.

I really don't see krosan grip in legacy much at all nowadays. K grip was an answer to counterbalance in 08, that was the main use for the card was breaking up the countertop softlock. I don't see maverick sideboards using it, nor do I see it in RUG sideboards. Disenchant and other such cards can be countered, making them less potent. Not to mention against decks packing disenchant, namely esperblade and UW stoneblade, they'll have to have 2 mana up to cast it as having a white card to pitch to cast disenchant is unlikely against them as postboard, they are going to have very few white cards in their deck as white cards are generally terrible against show and tell strategies. Also it isn't out of the question for you to get a dream halls out, cast another dream halls by pitching something, making enchantment destruction void unless they can blow up 2 copies of dream halls. It also helps that against esperblade you have all day to set up a hand to plow through anything the opponent has in terms of hate. Also, even if the opponent blows up the halls in response to conflux, you still get to resolve a conflux for another dream halls or a SnT into progenitus the next turn or something to win against them.

Also, losing to stifle sucks. Maybe you haven't heard, but canadian thresh is in the top 3 decks in legacy and lots of thresh players play stifle. Another problem with hive mind is 6 mana is a lot harder to hit versus 5 mana, and if hardcast is easily dazed or spell pierced while dream halls is 5 despite the UU in the cost 5 mana > 6 mana. And you have to assume you don't get show and tell every game with this deck, sure show and tell is nice because halls for 2U beats dream halls at 3UU. And there's that nice duress clause on show and tell, as the opponent has to counter it or you get dream halls in play and even if they do counter it you still have dream halls in hand to potentially hardcast next turn.

rooneg
04-24-2012, 10:33 PM
The things that are impressing me most about Dream Halls (as opposed to Sneak & Show or Hive Mind) are the internal synergy and the relative compactness of the combo. Your plan B (Progenitus + Show and Tell) is actually part of your main combo, so you aren't wasting slots on it like you do w/ Emrakul in Hive Mind decks, and if you've got Progenitus and Dream Halls but no Conflux you can still cheat Progenitus into play that way. And all of this fits in relatively few slots, so instead of filling the deck w/ 10 pacts, a bunch of Grim Monoliths and some Emrakuls that are often dead you can load up on more cantrips, which makes the whole deck feel more consistent, and more disruption, which gives you a better chance of actually resolving your combo.

The down side, of course, is that you don't get these "my Hive Mind hit play and I won before I even passed priority" kind of wins. Plus, you need a certain number of cards in hand to actually go off, so a resolved Liliana or Sword of Feast & Famine can really screw you over.

Oh, and it's a fun deck. The look on peoples' face when you cast Conflux is just awesome.

JPA
04-25-2012, 04:22 AM
Also, losing to stifle sucks.

Stifle doesn't really stop Hive Mind, since you play around 10 pacts (and 4 Intuition) while they play 4 Stifle.

About the compactness of the combo: I think the combo itself is compact, but since you need to search for different cards which are dead otherwise (like Conflux or Beacon and False Cure) you actually have less room for Protection and disruption. You only get to play 4 FoW and 3-4 Daze main, while Hive Mind plays 4 FoW, 4 Pact of Negation and 1 or 2 Flusterstorm / Spell Pierce and Sneak Show even packs control packages like 4 FoW, 2 Misdirection, 3 Spell Pierce, 3 Daze.

Still, I totally understand your point. And it's definitely more exciting than just putting an Emrakul into play and winning from there.

rooneg
04-25-2012, 06:39 AM
Stifle doesn't really stop Hive Mind, since you play around 10 pacts (and 4 Intuition) while they play 4 Stifle.

About the compactness of the combo: I think the combo itself is compact, but since you need to search for different cards which are dead otherwise (like Conflux or Beacon and False Cure) you actually have less room for Protection and disruption. You only get to play 4 FoW and 3-4 Daze main, while Hive Mind plays 4 FoW, 4 Pact of Negation and 1 or 2 Flusterstorm / Spell Pierce and Sneak Show even packs control packages like 4 FoW, 2 Misdirection, 3 Spell Pierce, 3 Daze.

Still, I totally understand your point. And it's definitely more exciting than just putting an Emrakul into play and winning from there.

I'll admit, Sneak & Show plays a bigger control package, although they do so by playing fewer cantrips (not crazy fewer, but fewer). Hive Mind is more of an edge case. It's got the playset of Pact of Negations, but they're dead cards early game because they can't pay the cost. It's awesome on the combo turn, but you have to save it for the combo turn.

JPA
04-25-2012, 02:14 PM
I'll admit, Sneak & Show plays a bigger control package, although they do so by playing fewer cantrips (not crazy fewer, but fewer). Hive Mind is more of an edge case. It's got the playset of Pact of Negations, but they're dead cards early game because they can't pay the cost. It's awesome on the combo turn, but you have to save it for the combo turn.

You generally want to save your counters for the combo turn - at least against other decks that play counters -, since resolving your combo means winning. Against decks like Goblins or Maverick, where you want to be able to Daze a Knight of the Reliquary or a Nacatl, or spell pierce the Vial, the Pact of Negation is very dead indeed (only good if they can pay for the Titan/Summoner's/Slaughter's pact and you need it for that; so it IS dead as a counter).

Dark Ritual
04-25-2012, 02:42 PM
Stifle is basically a hard counter against hive mind for U, as countermagic when hive mind is in play is quite useless. Not to mention DAZE is seeing a lot of play, which also hoses hive mind provided they have mana up to pay for your daze copy. So there's virtually 8 outs for RUG against this deck. And you literally HAVE to have double pact against them virtually all the time, as a single pact won't do the job making it a 3 card combo against their deck. Spell pierce also works in the daze scenario if they have 3 untapped lands, sure this is less likely but having all this countermagic against a combo deck helps too. If you have to pact of negation to resolve a hive mind/SnT, you have to have a pretty stacked hand to win. That's why hive mind is just super meh right now, canadian thresh has so many answers to it.

And there's the sad part that if the opponent has double stifle in their hand against hive mind, they're virtually unbeatable if they have a clock as double stifle is basically the nuts against hive mind.

ThediscoPower
04-25-2012, 03:12 PM
Stifle doesn't really stop Hive Mind, since you play around 10 pacts (and 4 Intuition) while they play 4 Stifle.

About the compactness of the combo: I think the combo itself is compact, but since you need to search for different cards which are dead otherwise (like Conflux or Beacon and False Cure) you actually have less room for Protection and disruption. You only get to play 4 FoW and 3-4 Daze main, while Hive Mind plays 4 FoW, 4 Pact of Negation and 1 or 2 Flusterstorm / Spell Pierce and Sneak Show even packs control packages like 4 FoW, 2 Misdirection, 3 Spell Pierce, 3 Daze.

Still, I totally understand your point. And it's definitely more exciting than just putting an Emrakul into play and winning from there.

However, Dream halls is usually playing more cantrip instead of the protection (3-4 preordain), as far as I know. Which is why I would like to ask, could it be better to cut the preordains and cram in more protection (spell pierce, flusterstorm)? For example, when we see that list that top 8ed last sunday, the lack of preordain (dropped for a second combo main deck in his case) did not seem to hinder in the end ( actually, no games from him were shown so I guess we don't really know).

And also, to add to the post above mine, isn't flusterstorm also a "screw you" card against hive mind? normally, if you play flusterstorm, the hive mind player doesn't get the storm trigger meaning the hive mind player is in trouble no?

rooneg
05-07-2012, 09:21 PM
Ended up playing the build from Ari Lax's SCG article at SCG Providence this weekend. I went 5 and 3, getting my third loss in round 8. If I'd won that match I'd have stayed for the final round, but with a third loss I figured 10 hours of magic was enough, so I headed home to put my daughter to bed. Oddly enough, my tiebreakers were awesome and I ended up finishing in the money, 64th place.

Anyway, I beat a weird Fauna Shaman based food chain combo deck w/ a Vengevine backup plan, RUG Delver (he finished in 11th place), Dredge (twice) and Maverick. Lost to Dredge (once), Storm w/ Past in Flames and Maverick.

The wins were pretty standard. About half the time I won via Progenitus, half the time I won w/ Dream Halls into a Conflux chain. The 6 grave hate cards in the board were awesome against dredge, and the only post-board game I lost to dredge (more about that later) was very close.

The losses are of course more interesting, so I'll talk about them a bit more.

First, my round 3 match against dredge. Game 1 he ran me over, had a ton of zombies on the board on turn 2 and I conceded in response to cabal therapy so he wouldn't know what I was playing. Game 2 I brought in the 6 grave hate cards and an echoing truth. He got a reasonable start, but I had some hate. I surgical extraction his initial dredger (probably wrong, should have held off for an ichorid or a narcomaeoba) then he tore my hand apart and I sat there while he built up a small army of zombies. At the last second I drew a ravenous trap and exiled the majority of his deck and then topdecked the echoing truth to get rid of his army. Unfortunately I was at 3 life, but he had hardly any deck left (like 6 or 7 cards). He managed to kill me with a Putrid Imp before I found a kill condition.

Next, my match against Storm Combo (round 5?). Game 1 I kept a turn two kill hand w/o any Force of Will (didn't know what he was playing), but he won the die roll and killed me before I took a turn. Game 2 I boarded in a bunch of counterspells and the surgical extractions, kept a reasonably fast hand w/ some disruption, but he managed to kill me on turn 2 or 3 despite me surgical extractioning his dark ritual to keep him off of threshold w/ cabal ritual on the stack.

Finally, my round 8 match against Maverick. Game 1 I kept a hand w/ most of the combo kill, he built a small army and was about to kill me, I Show and Tell to put Dream Halls into play with 1 card left in his hand, that card ends up being Qasali Pridemage and he destroys my Dream Halls in response to my Conflux. I die next turn. Game 2 I kept a 6 card hand w/ Dream Halls, Conflux, Island, Ancient Tomb and 2 Intuition. Plan is to turn 2 intuition for Show and Tell, turn 3 win. On his turn two he zeniths for 2, I Intuition for Daze and counter it. I draw a Preordain, replay my Island and pass the turn, on his turn he zeniths for 2 again, I reluctantly Intuition for FoW and counter it pitching Conflux. Next turn I start digging for the kill, on his turn he zeniths a third time, I can't stop it and he gets Teeg. I end up dying w/ the combo kill in hand but without any way to bounce Teeg. Apparently he opened a hand w/ three Green Sun's Zenith in it.

Anyway, the deck was solid all day long, even the matches I lost I felt like I had a chance. Will definitely be playing the deck again.

ThediscoPower
05-13-2012, 11:03 PM
Alright so it seems we have a dream halls deck in this week's SCG top 8. Pretty standard list, but an interesting sideboard, running, for instance, 2 Vendilion Clique. Here's the list:

Enchantments
4 Dream Halls

Instants
1 Beacon Of Immortality
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
1 False Cure
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
1 Pact of Negation

Legendary Creatures
4 Progenitus

Sorceries
4 Conflux
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
4 Show and Tell

Basic Lands
6 Island

Lands
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard:
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Dispel
3 Echoing Truth
3 Flusterstorm
1 Gigadrowse
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wipe Away
2 Vendilion Clique

Also, why did he play just one macabre? Why not just go for 3 macabre right away and cur the traps? is there something I am missing?

dsck
05-14-2012, 07:49 AM
Also, why did he play just one macabre? Why not just go for 3 macabre right away and cur the traps? is there something I am missing?

Diverse grave hate is better against dredge.

rxavage
05-16-2012, 10:16 PM
Are the intuitions sided out usually? I'm trying to determine their importance to the deck.

ThediscoPower
05-16-2012, 10:21 PM
Are the intuitions sided out usually? I'm trying to determine their importance to the deck.

Pretty damn important actually, because they let you win faster more consistently. Usually, you only side them out if you feel like you are going to see extirpate/surgical extraction in game 2.

DrHealex
05-17-2012, 09:19 AM
Diverse grave hate is better against dredge.

catmint
05-21-2012, 05:23 AM
Do you feel Dream Halls is a better S&T deck than Sneak & Show?
My main considerations why sneak attack is a better choice is:
- Pyroblast is much stronger versus Dream Halls.
- You have to run more "dead" cards instead of more protection.
- Dream Halls can be disrupted while the enchantment is on board.

The advantage of Dream halls that comes to mind is that it provides an insta-kill given there is no Humility etc on the board, whereas the kill with sneak&show is still somewhat conditional.

slave
08-22-2012, 12:19 AM
Hi guys & gals,
I'd like to thanks everyone for their efforts in this thread.
Read from start to finish, cheers!
I'm looking to build one of these decks, and despite the wonderful UR version with Burning Wish, and the UB version with Lim-Dul's Vault - I like the Mono Blue approach better....seems that's a popular thought!:laugh:

I'd like to ask a few questions though.

How do you combat a Gaddock Teeg / Etherwsorn Canonist /Qasali Pridemage that hits the board?
I've been goldfishing a version with about 10 counters, and I sometimes still get one hit the board. Considering the number of decks that run stuff with 2cmc, would including some Spell Snare be viable?
I'm reluctant to run CUnning Wish..... How do I get around Teeg? (especially)

So far I've been enjoying áll of the Cruel Ultimatum (with and w/o Nucklavee) and Intuition build's. This is a fun deck to play! But so far, the version that doesn't care about the graveyard, or ways to win off a single Conflux seems the strongest option to me. I see a lot of Surgical Extraction, so Cruel Ultimatum seemed a little flaky in some matchups - even though it seemed like the most fun way to play the deck.
Is this the most resilient way to do it - Conflux with Beacon?

Lastly, (I know this is gonna sound subpar), but would 1 or 2 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker be an option for this deck?
I'm mainly thinking of ways to get around hate - whether it's Glacial Chasm, Canonist, Pridemage, Teeg etc.
The biggest probem is the inability to hardcast it, but SnT (into DreamHalls) makes it possible turn 1 or 2 play, and his ability to kill any permanent or steal whatever decent creature they play should be an autoscoop for some decks.
It's a given this is unlikely play, and it's been that way so far with only 2 of them in the deck in testing - but it's been hilarious to nuke a players basic lands one by one in goldfishing. On a side, its' three colours make it first choice as a pitch to Force against storm combo on T1.
SHould Bolas stick around, the ultimate is an autowin for your combo turn as you nerf their hand and pretty much anything they have in play that Nic hasn't already destroyed.
Is this stupid?
Probably....but it's also a very fun card to play.
Thoughts?

slave
08-31-2012, 02:51 AM
Do you feel Dream Halls is a better S&T deck than Sneak & Show?
My main considerations why sneak attack is a better choice is:
- Pyroblast is much stronger versus Dream Halls.
- You have to run more "dead" cards instead of more protection.
- Dream Halls can be disrupted while the enchantment is on board.

The advantage of Dream halls that comes to mind is that it provides an insta-kill given there is no Humility etc on the board, whereas the kill with sneak&show is still somewhat conditional.

Dream Halls > Omniscience c/o Conflux seems to be the best play for me, especially since Omni can cast Grisel, draw into an Emrakul etc....
Sneak and SHow is pretty hrd to beat though, I'm not sure if Halls is as strong tbh.

slave
09-14-2012, 03:46 AM
So I've been tinkering with the deck a bit.

False Cure & Beacon of Immortality is pretty strong, but for those rare occasions I've actually drawn it - black discard has immediately forced me to scoop on their turn 1!!:cry:
As strange as it sounds, of the three expected targetted discard (inq, Duress, Thoughtsieze), Inquisition is the only one I can do anything about, as the rest of my combo is beyond reach, and Inq. is by far the most common where I am.
So!!!

I've been playing with this list casually against a few of my friends' legacy decks.
So far it's been pretty killer against a lot of matchups, even if the win con is a bit convoluted, as there is quite a few different ways for me to win provided I can cast Conlfux in the first place.

Here's my current list;

Biz;
4 Conflux
4 Dream Halls
1 Omniscience

Post combo;
1 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
1 Obliterate
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Liliana Vess

Chaff;
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
4 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ancestral Knowledge
& about 18 to 20 lands including fetches, basics etc for Mono-Blue.

How it works;
Conflux > Wheel, Myojin, Conflux, Conflux, Omni.
Cast Wheel, Discarding Myojin.
Cast Omni, putting Conflux on bottom of the deck, then COnflux for Cruel Ult. and go from there.

This is a fairly budget version of the deck, as I'm not packing Force of Will, and I'm using a minimal number of fetches, and Saprazzan Skerry instead of stuff like City of Traitors / Ancient Tomb, but it is still fairly consistent in getting a turn 4 win against decks that don't run a huge counter suite or a huge amount of discard, or decks that don't punish you for not paying Force of Will on turn 0.

I'm honestly thinking of popping in one more G/W card just for more targets for COnflux, the only one I've thought of that doesn't take consistency away from the deck might be Noxious Revival. Any suggestions?

lochlan
04-14-2013, 07:12 PM
So Lejay went undefeated day 1 of GP Strasbourg with the following list:

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Cunning Wish
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Omniscience
3 Dream Halls
4 Show and Tell

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Leyline of Sanctity

4 Force of Will
3 Pact of Negation

4 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
10 Island

Sideboard:
3 Defense Grid
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Intuition
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Noxious Revival
1 Pact of Negation
1 Release the Ants
1 Rushing River
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Trickbind

Very innovative! Unfortunately he didn't do as well on day 2, but still achieved an impressive 25th place finish. (Congratulations to him!)

Compared to Rob Vaca's take on Dream Halls/Enter the Infinite Combo (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=4399&d=225585), Lejay's list feels a little more streamlined. Rob Vaca had essentially two discrete combos--EtI/D.Halls and S&T/Emrakul--that could be "bridged" with Omniscience (allowing both enablers to work with the other combo piece). Lejay's list here focuses more on Omniscience and Dream Halls, I think to its benefit. I tested with Vaca's list a bit and mismatched combo pieces were frequently an issue for me (especially Emrakul, which is awkward as hell with Dream Halls--you can't even pitch it).

Perhaps the greatest innovation here is the use of Cunning Wish, which provides this deck with ultimate utility. You can find a win condition, get Inutition, handle annoying permanents, Trickbind an Oblivion Ring, and more. The inherent versatility of the slot gives this deck a very synergistic and consistent win package, much like Omniscience/Burning Wish combo--and I think helps alleviate some of the clunkiness in Vaca's list.

Pact of Negation also seems like a great choice. Misdirection has often filled this slot in Show and Tell lists previously, but having too many pitch cards in a Dream Halls deck can be problematic.

The 1x Leyline in the main is funny. It seems like a hedge against the presence of discard in the format (which is always annoying for a two-card combo). Or perhaps it was a concession made to allow enough slots in the wish board? I hope Lejay will comment on this choice somewhere at some point.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this list is better than some of the other Show and Tell options, but given Lejay's impressive record at the GP I would not be surprised if this deck achieved some good results in the near future.

blindspotxxx
04-14-2013, 11:29 PM
Yeah list looks fun and nice but I'll probably modify the Leyline in the Main Deck for a sideboard card :)

phazonmutant
04-15-2013, 12:20 AM
Yeah list looks fun and nice but I'll probably modify the Leyline in the Main Deck for a sideboard card :)

It looks like he couldn't find sideboard room for the fourth Leyline. What would you cut from the wishboard?

I tested this list a bit today and it was pretty fun. However, it still has the problem of being a 3-card combo and Wish doesn't really help in that regard. From the written coverage, it sounded like he lost to not finding the pieces.

Also worth mentioning, where should Omniscience + Dream Halls + Enter the Infinite builds be discussed? There's the Omniscience thread and this thread in Established, and the Enter the Infinite thread in New & Dev. Perhaps some of them should get merged?

lochlan
04-15-2013, 01:09 AM
Also worth mentioning, where should Omniscience + Dream Halls + Enter the Infinite builds be discussed?

I mean--here, right? In a card pool post-Enter-the-Infinite, why cast Conflux anymore? The decks you're describing are just the new Dream Halls decks as far as I'm concerned.

blindspotxxx
05-01-2013, 04:32 AM
It looks like Intuition would be a very good card here to fix combo pieces. As for the sideboard, I don't understand the usefulness of the Noxious Revival there maybe it can be the 4th Leyline

Lejay
05-01-2013, 05:30 AM
Noxious is the best wishable slot with trickbind.

I'll probably write a primer in a new thread after BoM. Be patient.

phazonmutant
02-26-2014, 03:55 PM
I've brewed up a bit of a new take on the Dream Halls deck. It looks pretty screwy, but it's been testing well.
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Lim dul's Vault
1 Intuition

4 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls
4 Griselbrand
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Enter the Infinite

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Swamp
2 City of Traitors

// Sideboard
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Massacre
1 Teferi's Realm
1 Echoing Truth
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Baleful Strix

So why play this over Omnitell or Sneak and Show?
Vs Omni:
It's a two card combo, which gives more room for disruption.
Speaking of, counterspells plus discard are extremely potent in a Show and Tell deck, as Reanimator shows.
It's much more explosive.

Vs Sneak And show
You don't rely on attacking or even keeping your man in play.
Griselbrand drawing 14 can easily lead to a Tendrils win.

Vs both
Massacre is really well positioned. Strix seems sweet to buy time against non w tempo.

However,
It's a little raw, some consistency issues.

phazonmutant
02-28-2014, 03:02 AM
Upon further testing, I have decided the deck I posted is bad.