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Eldariel
03-06-2010, 07:51 AM
25.2.2016: It's been years since I've written anything this and many a card have been printed since. I don't have the time to test everything and post an up-to-date list here in the front but Parcher and the Hatfields had been working on a modern build of the deck. I recommend everybody to consider adopting Stratus Dancer and True-Name Nemesis in spite of the problematic casting cost of the latter: the cards go really well with what the deck is trying to accomplish. I'll leave the old opening post as a legacy post but if somebody has the energy, it might be prudent to write a new one. I might do it myself later though no promises.

Parcher's list, originally posted here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16742-Deck-Faerie-Stompy&p=929536&viewfull=1#post929536) (help the man playtest!):
10 Snow-Covered Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Seat of the Synod

4 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sigil of Distinction

4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Stratus Dancer
3 Sea Drake
3 Looter il-Kor
3 Trinket Mage
2 Hangarback Walker

4 Force of Will

SB:

3 Back to Basics
3 Misdirection
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Warping Wail
2 Wipe Away
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt


Faerie Stompy

Index
What is Faerie Stompy?
Building Faerie Stompy
a. Basics
b. Deck Core
c. Other Slots
d. Compiling List
e. Sideboard
In-Depth Card Analysis
a. Why Core is Core
b. Filling the Other Slots
c. What Do You Sideboard
Match-Ups (to come)
Frequently Asked Questions
Topics to Discuss
History

1. What is Faerie Stompy?

Faerie Stompy (sometimes called Sea Stompy) is a mono-blue accelerated aggro-deck usually incorporating some Prison-components and equipment. The deck uses fast mana to skip the one-drop part of the curve entirely, and abuses this usually by playing Chalice of the Void with its now not-so-symmetrical effect locking out vast majority of the format, while FS is virtually unhindered. While Faerie Stompy doesn’t sport creatures quite as large as the green beasts that roam the format, its ability to cheat on mana means it still gets impressively sized creatures in play in due schedule, along with some utility drops that generally draw cards, tutor for things or throw a few wrenches into opponent’s gameplan.

A notable advantage Faerie Stompy has over most decks with creatures is that its entire army flies, meaning the standard issue Goyf wall does precious little against the assault. This also enables Faerie Stompy to make wonderful use of equipment such as Sword of Fire and Ice and Umezawa’s Jitte, which just so happen to function perfectly with the deck’s manabase. On the flipside, the deck's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness; against other decks cheating the manacurve, Chalice of the Void tends to be quite uninspiring. Of course, other similar decks tend to also be built with Chalice-like cards in mind so it tends to null out.


2. Building Faerie Stompy
2a. Basics

The deck tends to have various ratios working against one-another, each needing to be fulfilled for the deck to function consistently Various things in the deck set ratios which must be fulfilled for the deck to function:

Creatures: You need enough to enable equipment. This is one of the biggest issues I was having before the printing of Mulldrifter; the draw effect was taking a creature slot meaning there was often a shortage of targets to equip against removal-heavy opponents. I wouldn't play under 20 creatures in Faerie Stompy, and the more, the merrier.

Blue cards: You need enough to support Force of Will and Chrome Mox. That is the reason I have that Shoreline Ranger in the manabase and that is why I'm not running any artifact creatures, for example. Counting Forces themselves (I often imprint my first Force on a Mox if the hand is going to be played out quickly), I wouldn't run any less than 24 blue cards if I can help it. Hell, I'd want more than I presently run, but that just cuts too much into the deck's functioning.

Fast mana: You need enough to get Chalices in play when they really hurt, and to stay up to speed with lowcurve decks, while trying to outpace more controlling piles. With the addition of various combo "kills" to normal Legacy-decks over the last years (Stiflenaught, Painter's Stone, Natural Proge, Loyal Iona), speed is more important than ever, especially since they will have some means to deal with your artifacts stalling them and thus you'd better win before they do something sick.

Manabase: You don't do anything without 3 mana available so you'll want to ensure you have access to that very consistently. I wouldn't ever run any less than 21 mana sources, even with 8 fast mana cards, and tend towards more rather than less.


2b. Deck Core

Here is what I would consider the core of Faerie Stompy:
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
8 Island
+5-6 mana sources

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
4 Trinket Mage
+8-10 creatures

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sigil of Distinction
+3-6 other spells

In some metagames, Chalice could be culled to a smaller number, but overall, I'd say it's quite safe to say that 4 Chalices maindeck is correct, especially with the raise of various low-curve decks recently.

2c. Other Slots

Outside the Core, there are many slots open to other effects. I'd love to say there's one optimal list, but as is so often the case with Legacy, everything from your personal playstyle to metagame means there, frankly, isn't. There are lots of cards that could go to those slots, and especially last years have provided us with far more options than we have slots. There is a lot of freedom with what effects you pack. I'm not going to cover all the options here, as that would take as much space as the rest of the primer combined. I will, however, try to cover the most relevant ones.

Mana:
- Chrome Mox
- Seat of the Synod
- Mox Diamond
- Faerie Conclave
- Shoreline Ranger

Creatures:
- Sower of Temptation
- Mulldrifter
- Pestermite
- Cloud of Faeries
- Glen Elendra Archmage
- Spellstutter Sprite
- Weatherseed Faeries
- Esperzoa

Equipment:
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Sword of Light and Shadow

Trinkets:
- Pithing Needle
- Engineered Explosives
- Cursed Scroll
- Relic of Progenitus

Spells:
- Control Magic
- Misdirection
- Daze
- Condescend
- Thirst for Knowledge
- Compulsive Research
- Psionic Blast

2d. Compiling List

From this cards, we choose the ones that allow us to fulfill the necessary ratios, and customize the deck to have the effects we want it to. For example, the build I’m using right now, made without any specific metagame considerations looks like this:

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Island
4 Chrome Mox
1 Shoreline Ranger

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Mulldrifter
2 Pestermite

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sigil of Distinction
3 Umezawa's Jitte


The ratios given above are all filled. I want the deck to have plenty of game against creature-decks due to the inherent strengths against combo, so I include 9 cards worth of various removal effects. I want to minimize my chances of losing to lack of equippables so I push to 22 creatures and 23 mana sources should minimize my chances of having to mulligan for lands. The rest cover the control-role to give the deck interactive options against the opponent, with Chalice and Force doing the bulk of the job but Needle stepping in every now and then when it's the key. It's a solid, generic list designed to have a game against anything. This isn't particularly metagamed, but it's what I'd consider if I had to face a random, Grand Prix-like metagame.

2e. Sideboard

Sideboard obviously needs to be tailored for any given metagame. That said, a quick look through cards I'd consider sideboarding in Faerie Stompy:
- Sower of Temptation
- Glen Elendra Archmage
- Weatherseed Faeries
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Sword of Light and Shadow
- Pithing Needle
- Engineered Explosives
- Relic of Progenitus
- Tormod's Crypt
- Control Magic
- Misdirection
- Back to Basics
- Blue Elemental Blast
- Submerge
- Hibernation
- Llawan, Cephalid Empress
- Arcane Laboratory
- Propaganda

Many of the cards that don't make it to the maindeck end up in the sideboard for the appropriate match-ups. Given the deck's nature with all the ratios mentioned above, there isn't too much room for other cards in the maindeck post-board, which makes boarding cards that function as parts of the deck's normal gameplan excellent. Exception is match-ups where you side out Chalices; there you can generally afford to bring more stuff in.

Rest of the sideboard is mostly color hate effects and hate against linear decks, especially graveyard-based ones. Here's an example of what you could use in an unknown metagame with the above maindeck:
1 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Back to Basics
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Submerge
1 Engineered Explosives


3. In-Depth Card Analysis
3a. Why Core is Core

City of Traitors & Ancient Tomb: Most efficient more or less permanent colorless mana acceleration in the format, something this deck counts on. Nothing much to say here; you could try others, but these are just the best.

Island: The deck runs little colored mana so it's important you don't lose what you have to Wasteland, Stifle or such. As such, basic Islands have been found the safest core of the manabase.

Serendib Efreet & Sea Drake: Biggest nearly-drawbackless 2U beaters in the game, they synergise tremendously well with Tomb and City (to the degree that Sea Drake can be played without losing your lands if you can get it in play with only one land on the battlefield) and are great for ending the game in a hurry.

Trinket Mage: Chalice is good so you want extras. This here little fellow gets you your Chalices while gladly picking up a sword and flaying some Goyfs.

Force of Will: Legacy is a wide-open format. This is the "Oh shit!"-button that can literally deal with everything. Also instrumental to us beating combo, enables you to protect your beaters from removal in response to equipping, force through gamebreakers and so on. There's a reason it's in the top 2 most played cards in the format.

Chalice of the Void: Some decks just die to it. Others just lose several key spells. Mostly blanks out all the bothersome removal you'd normally be dealing with. Most decks have to get rid of it or counter it if they want to beat you. The few that don't tend to have similar measures themselves and thus the dead cards cancel out G1.

Sword of Fire and Ice: Simply the most efficient equipment there is, especially in a deck full of flyers. This speeds up your clock tremendously (in fact, SoFI's existent single-handedly gives the deck a turn 3 kill), turns a lowly 1/1 into a 4-turn clock, draws you cards to stop opponent from coming back, deals with Merfolk/Goblin/Elf-hordes and is just generally awesome.

Sigil of Distinction: I was torn with whether to include this here, but I've come to the conclusion the deck really wants one. The basic function? This card turns your Trinket Mages into threats when necessary. If you're threat light, playing a Trinket and getting this can give you a Trinket Mage full capable of kicking Goyf ass. Hell, I've seen Trinkets beat Knights of Reliquary in combat. These happen to be pretty big in a deck with this much fast mana. Of course it's not as good as other equipment in the deck hence why it's only a singleton, but having the means to turn a Trinket Mage into a gigantic threat is worth it.

3b. Filling the Other Slots

Mana:
Chrome Mox: Costs you card, gives you U, can be found with Trinket Mage. As I feel the deck needs more acceleration especially to make Drake truly awesome, I'm going with 4 Moxes. Losing a card sucks, but with all the inherent card advantage in the deck, that is bearable, and Chalice turn 1 is so much stronger than Chalice turn 2 it isn't even funny.

Seat of the Synod: Wasteable Island that you can fetch with Trinket Mage. Arguments go both ways. I'm not presently playing it since against most decks you'd want to fetch it, I find you just rather pick up Chrome Mox as it's un-Wasteable. And it makes some fringe keeps into mulligans. That said, there are great arguments both ways.

Mox Diamond: I always dismissed this card, but Media314r8 has done quite well with it in the past. I never liked how it isn't really a mana source and requires you to run extra lands to truly function. Chrome Mox is a card you can choose not to play when flooding, and where you can choose the card to "cut for it" while you play it. Mox Diamond requires you to make that cut already in the deck construction phase and doesn't give you the option to "not play it" since you paid for including it by removing threats already in deck construction. It also makes for worse topdecking. On the flipside though, it provides any color of mana which is particularly relevant with Engineered Explosives, and it gives you "room" in your manabase to run utility lands. If you consider Mox Diamond, look into cards like Wasteland, Academy Ruins, off-color artifact lands and manlands. These allow you to benefit of the increased bluecount without invoking the flood-issues these cards usually come with.

Faerie Conclave: The "best" blue manland, it's the only one I'd consider playing if I wanted to increase the creature count. However, as it stands, I find the Wasteland-immunity and the ability to play Back to Basics more important.

Shoreline Ranger: My solution to the "blue-count issue" and flooding simultaneously; Shoreline Ranger pitches to FoW and Chrome Mox. If you need the Island but have the 2-mana lands, you'll cycle it turn 1. Same with 2 Island+Shoreline hands though I'd be slow to keep those. When you don't need it for mana, it mostly pitches and once in a blue moon, you might cast it as a threat. Remember, it's not pretty but what matters is that it works. Many a people have died to Goblin Welders before. A 6-mana 3/4 flyer isn't good, but gets the job done when you have nothing better.

Creatures:
Sower of Temptation: The deck is light on removal, as is typical for blue. This card doubles as a removal-spell and a solid body on its own right. 2UU is a playable cost nowadays, and Sower can just lead to blowouts if not removed. And even if it is, it still blanked one attack from whatever you stole. Sword of Fire and Ice and Light and Shadow can protect it and SoLS can even recur Sower when it's prone to dying. Generally, you don't lose creature match-ups if Sower sticks; it's effectively +2 cards, same as Fact or Fiction. Opponent loses one creature, you gain one creature and Sower to boot.

Mulldrifter: Draw cards for 2U; worse than many draw-spells, but what you really want is the 4U version that comes with a free body. Thanks to the way the deck is built, this is plenty to be equipped, and the extra cards help you overcome the card advantage fight in spite of Forces and Moxes against many decks. Awesome against anything controlling and removal-heavy, decks that are traditionally issues. Like Sower, this is +2 cards with the plusside that you retain the cards even if this gets removed.

Pestermite: 2U fits to the curve nicely and while nothing this card does is that impressive on its own, the combination of everything it does is superb. 2/1 flyer body isn't amazing, but good enough to pick up a Sword and go to town. It taps Goyfs or Maze of Iths, taps opponents' lands turn 2 to effectively Time Walk them, can be snuck in EOT to get a body in face of heavy sorcery removal, screws up combat math something severe, untaps the creature with Jitte in combat for a blowout, untaps opponent's Shackles to get back whatever they stole (for a turn), can "accelerate" itself out for mere U if you untap a 2-mana land (or 2 if that's more convenient) and so on. I really like this and would play more if I could fit them.

Cloud of Faeries: Relic from the first editions of the deck, this 1U fellow is used as an accelerator and a free body. It can untap 2-mana lands to get you an extra 1 in pool, accelerating to 4-drops nicely. The problem? Most playable 4-drops cost 2UU as opposed to 3U, or are artifacts. Still, the combination of Cycling, freeness & acceleration gives Cloud great utility and doubles can accelerate out SoFI-equip or Mulldrifter, and it plays around Daze great. This has its uses; the question is whether that's the optimal use of those slots. It is worth noting that losing manaburn made her much better.

Glen Elendra Archmage: This is the first good 3U creature since...ever. Sure, the body is unimpressive, but the ability? Counter non-creature spells! That's amazing! Get this in play against any combo- or control-deck and watch them grimace. They generally try to win with expensive spells that just win the game if resolved, and here you have free counter for two of them. And if they don't make you use her to counter, you'll just beat them senseless while winning counter battles. Suddenly combo's Chants and Duresses aren't so hot. The real question is whether to maindeck or to sideboard her.

Spellstutter Sprite: A useful 1U-drop; who knew?! If you get the mileage out of this creature, she'll be truly stellar. The problems are a few; first, you'll rarely be using her with other Faeries in play so she'll mostly snag one-drops, which in turn clashes with Chalice. She also is quite inept at snagging instants, so she'll mostly be taking Zoo-drops (in response to which she gets burned) and Sensei's Divining Tops. Physically, she's quite unimpressive at 2-mana 1/1. I could certainly see playing her in slightly more controlling list, but the ability is quite limited and rarely meshes well with the timing you'd want to use your 2-drops at. Savvy opponents can usually find times when they can hit you with 1-drop removal without fear of Spellstutter outside late-game position where you've burned through your creatures.

Weatherseed Faeries: Red has lots of removal and some good creatures. Red also can't really deal with pro-red. Combine this fellow with any equipment and you'll rock red decks to hell and back. Obviously a metagame call based on how much red you expect, decks like Goblins, Aggro Loam, Burn and Zoo really dislike this small fellow, in spite of her unimpressive stats. Equips without fear of "Bolt in response" are just gold.

Esperzoa: Printing of this guy caused quite the stir; another playable 4/3 flyer for 2U? Since then it has died down a bit, as its drawback is far larger than that of Sea Draka. Sure, it can be used to reset Needles and Chalices, but most of the time? You want that Chalice in play, having empty Moxes is against your plan, returning imprinted Moxes is a disaster and you'd rather not give opponent the window to use whatever ability you deemed dangerous enough to Needle. And returning equipment? Nice mana investment there. Also, as an artifact creature it is much easier to remove than rest of the deck, something that's often an issue with equipment. That said, it's still a 4/3 for 2U and warrants consideration. Note: Artifacts do not imprint on Chrome Mox no matter how colored. They pitch to FoW just fine though.

Equipment:
Umezawa's Jitte: Probably the best equipment printed thus far, and SoFI's natural companion, Jitte has been a key in the deck since its inception. This is the bane of decks with smaller-than-Goyf creatures, makes racing nigh' impossible for the opponent and is just responsible for turning more impossible board positions than just about anything else. Being slightly cheaper than SoFI also makes it play nice with the manacurve, and it acts as an answer to opposing Jittes, which could cause problems. Only mediocre against control and even there, speeds up your clock by quite a bit.

Sword of Light and Shadow: The other Sword, SoLS is less impressive while goldfishing than SoFI, but between Mulldrifter and Sower, the recursion ability has a huge impact, and pro-white/black tends to be much stronger than pro-blue/red. Gaining life still helps with the race and it has modest stat boost too. This especially shines against black/white controlling decks, grinding the game out to victory.

Trinkets:
Pithing Needle: This is my favorite Trinket. It covers so much this deck otherwise has trouble dealing with from Survival of the Fittest to Maze of Ith to Sensei's Divining Top to Vedalken Shackles to Pernicious Deed to Qasali Pridemage to Aether Vial to Umezawa's Jitte to Wasteland to Mishra's Factory...well, I'm sure you get the point already. It's the only card I find good enough to play in spite of being a nombo with Chalice at 1. In many of the match-ups you use it in, you want Chalice at 2 anyways, and in the others you use it to deal with what slipped through the Chalice.

Engineered Explosives: This is a nice trinket since it slips right through Chalice. This deals with things like Aether Vials, Elf hordes, Goblin Lackeys, some Merfolk, Mother of Runes, Pithing Needles and so on. It shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone that a format like Legacy contains lots of 1-drops. The other, perhaps more important use is being able to deal with opponent's token hordes, particularly armies formed of Empty the Warrens. As Trinket Mageable, having even one makes you virtually immune to Empty the Warrens making it definitely worth at least a sideboard slot.

Cursed Scroll: The deck empties its hand rather fast and sometimes has trouble getting the last points in...or that's the theory anyways. The problem is that the deck actually draws a rather large number of cards and Cursed Scroll is relatively slow compared to the deck's normal gameplan. Worse, it doesn't benefit of the equipment at all and dies to most of the cards Faerie Stompy would have trouble with in the first place requiring it, such as Pernicious Deed. It's also a nombo with Chalice at 1 but at least wipes the stupid tribal crap off the board.

Relic of Progenitus: In addition to being here to deal with graveyard strategies, this card is mostly a man with a singular purpose; make Goyf small. As Goyf is the primary means by which many decks race you, having the means to make it a cute little puppy certainly has some charm. This, however, has a tried-and-true problem; you generally want Chalice at 1 in play and often when you'd really want the effect, it conflicts with Chalice. However, in some match-ups you want this and Chalice at 2 (for example, Countertop, Aggro Loam and Lands), so it is not entirely without merit. The fact that Ichorid match-up rewards Chalice at 1 greatly though puts a damper on things.

There are also some trinketable creatures in consideration, but they have thus far proven too weak to include. We are still waiting for the drawbackless X for X/X.

Spells:
Control Magic: Nowadays, with the modern manabase, this is most certainly better than the ancient Binding Grasp, especially since Goyf is naturally X/X+1 meaning it'll block itself all day anyways. This is a less powerful, inherently useless, far-harder-to-remove version of Sower of Temptation. Basically, if you get this down, you can be reasonably sure your 2-for-1 sticks, at least G1. Basically, unless they have Qasali Pridemage, they aren't removing it. Being able to steal Tarmogoyfs, Tombstalkers and company can certainly take games. The question is whether this is better than Sower and whether you can afford cards dead against e.g. Ad Nauseam Tendrils where you really want an early threat.

Misdirection: With burn getting more common lately, this card has gotten much better. To recap, you generally use it for the following: Redirect burn to kill opponent's creatures or face. Redirect removal to kill opponent's creatures. Redirect Hymn/Thoughtseize to protect your hand and make opponent toss something. Redirect LD to...well, obvious. Redirect counters to force something through. Of these, with Bant-decks packing tons of creatures now and burn being out in force again, redirecting burn and removal have both gotten much better as of late. It's definitely worth considering couple of Misdirections in the maindeck as nasty surprises.

Daze: Once, the deck didn't run enough Islands to support Daze. Not so anymore. With many lists sporting 11+ Islands, it is clear that this card has to be considered. The deck plays into a tempoplan, wants to force through spells early while tapping out, taps out quite a bit itself and can actually benefit of "return land"-effects with Sea Drake; this seems like a rather good fit. I know I'll be testing it for myself.

Condescend: This slot actually involves any X-counter; I just picked Condescend since it's IMHO the best of the crop, though I suppose Power Sink has something going on for it too. I think it's about time to consider a more counter-heavy version of the deck, with the recent printings and the way the metagame is going with the harder match-ups being slow, ponderous decks. I'm not sure this is the right way to approach them, but it is certainly an option.

Thirst for Knowledge: Since the printing of Mulldrifter, I have completely gotten rid of this card. While it digs deeper and can discard dead Moxes for live cards, getting extra body out of the deal was just much too good to pass up on. Thirst is a great card advantage effect, but the issue is that this deck generally wants at least one creature into play each turn too. It can be hard to get the UU4 to both, cast Thirst and a dude. Casting just Thirst and skipping a turn can be really bad for you tempo-wise. As such, I'm preferring Mulldrifter that removes "U" from the equation of draw+creatures. Oh, and requires less non-creatures in the deck while at it. That said, for pure draw, this is probably still the best.

Compulsive Research: Pretty much the same as Thirst, except more likely to draw you three, but less likely to discard then-useless card. Also, sorcery, but you shouldn't worry about that that much here as the deck is quite sorcery-speed for mana use anyways.

Psionic Blast: Once-best removal in aggro blue that doubled as a finisher, this card was mostly obsoleted by certain Tarmogoyf. I'm sure you've heard of the card. Basically, when we blew up Werebears, we were all good, but now we can't blow up 2-drops with our 3-drops. It's still a consideration for blasting the head, but mostly the damage to self and inability to remove cards has taken the bite out of it.

Trinisphere: This is an extremely polarizing card. It can make for some absolutely unfair plays like turn 1 Mox - Tomb -> Trini, turn 2 Drake. Or something of the sort. Early Trini can be backbreaking. Then, on the other hand, turn 3 you might as well be casting Great Wall for all your opponent cares. This really needs some backup land destruction. If you run Wasteland, Winter Orb, Smokestack and so on, I could definitely see the allure in Trini; you can tie opponent's mana all game. But why the hell are you in the Faerie Stompy-thread then?

It is definitely a powerful card, but as the entire rest of our plan is focused on denying opponent's cards rather than mana, it's just alone. It's still a kick in the teeth for some decks, most notably combo, but it's just kind of slow there and very weak against any decks with a modicum of removal after they have 3 lands in play. Is it possible to build a Faerie Stompy-build efficiently utilizing Trinisphere? Probably. Have I seen one? Nope.


3c. What Do You Sideboard

First, a word on sideboarding. The sideboard space is heavily limited. As such, I suggest you utilize the maindeck Trinket Mages to best of your ability; Powder Keg deals with tokens just as well as Engineered Explosives, but as Engineered Explosives is fetchable, it should take priority. It'll take less slots for the same effect. This is also why you'll want to focus on Tormod's Crypt-like graveyard hate and preferably use Needles and such as catch-all, rather than branch out to effects that are similar but simply take more sideboard space.

With that said, onto the cards. Many of the cards covered above often find themselves in the sideboard when metagame doesn't fall exactly right for them. Short list of MDable cards commonly on the sideboard:
- Sower of Temptation
- Glen Elendra Archmage
- Weatherseed Faeries
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Sword of Light and Shadow
- Pithing Needle
- Engineered Explosives
- Relic of Progenitus
- Control Magic
- Misdirection

Those cards are generally sideboarded for the same reason you'd mainboard them; in some match-ups you really want Control Magic-effects, in others you want that equipped Faerie, in others all you need is one piece of equipment to blank Humility, in yet others you have to deal with token hordes and some decks just are particularly graveyard-heavy. That said, not every sideboard card should be a maindeck consideration. More specialized sideboard cards that specifically exist to make life a living hell for one archetype or another:

Back to Basics: Legacy is a format of thousand dollar manabases. This shuts them down. There are many 3-4color decks that just can't afford a sufficient number of basics to function under Back to Basics. There's also a number of poorly built decks that simply contain less basics than they should. A number of those decks, such as Rock-builds and some low-curve control are quite poor match-ups. As such, Back to Basics is here to punish them for their greedy manabase. It also obviously helps a ton against decks like Lands. We function quite fine under it thanks to Chrome Mox, Islands, Sea Drake and untappers. Definitely a powerful sideboard card for the match-ups where you expect tapouts and are playing the aggro-role. Also fine additional hate against multicolor combo as they generally need to tap out to bounce your Chalices.

Winter Orb: The previous go-to land hate, I find Winter Orb eclipsed by Back to Basics. People just need to stall for few turns to get back to game against Winter Orb. You need an aggressive draw to capitalize. Not so with Back to Basics. It just locks them out. Both come in versus control, but while Winter Orb stalls them, Back to Basics ends them. Back to Basics also is more applicable in other match-ups as usable. And is a blue card, and crucially an enchantment so Hurkyl's Recall/Rebuild doesn't hit it. Quite simply, unless your metagame is flooded with Mono-White and Mono-Blue Control, you definitely should just run Back to Basics over this.

Tormod's Crypt: Progenitus's Relic's angry little brother, this doesn't cantrip nor tap to remove less crap, but this does cost 0 and wipes out graveyards for free. Very key against things like Reanimator and Ichorid, it also has uses against all manners of Loam-decks, and can be decent even against something as simple as Tempo Thresh to slow down the beats. Note that it's often card disadvantage, but with Mages and all, it can be worth it.

Blue Elemental Blast: You may wonder why I'd suggest something so mediocre that clashes with Chalice at 1, but Blue Elemental Blast does few very key tasks. First, it allows you to deal with Goblin Lackey on the draw somewhat consistently, improving your Goblins match-up tremendously. Second, it gives you a powerful tool against decks like Aggro Loam, Dragon Stompy, red Tendrils, Burn and so on. Note that against Burn, yes, you want Chalice at 1 but if you get that you're winning anyways; BEB will help with the games you don't see it in.

Submerge: With the increased Island-count, this is an excellent sideboard option. Not only does it stop attacker, it forces them to recast it...next turn. That effectively means two turns of peace from the ravaging Goyf, or even better, in response to a fetchland you can just shuffle them away entirely. The kicker, of course, being that this spell is wholly free. Good trade if I've ever seen one!

Hibernation: So yeah, green creatures are pretty good. Then there's that one huge annoyance, that Proge-something. It's hard to remove. Hibernation removes it. So...uhh yeah, Hibernation is quite an excellent tempo effect against Threshold/Counterbalance-builds that also deals with The Most Annoying Wincon In Legacy.

Llawan, Cephalid Empress: The best reasoning for including her is how bad she rapes you. Many decks include her against Merfolk and happen to be able to bring her in against you too. As a bonus, she also deals with Progenitus, Trygon Predator, Rhox War Monk and all manners of annoying Bant-creatures. Oh, and ensures that they aren't coming back. And is a body to beat with while at it. 3U is much harder a manacost than 2U, but the effect is positively brutal.

Arcane Laboratory: Say you really, really despise Storm-combo. Say that in spite of all the Chalices, Forces, Glen Elendra Archmages and beats you just can't beat it. Then this is for you. It's your one-stop answer to combo problems. They will need to remove it before they go off, and it isn't easy to remove. Couple it with couple of other disruptive permanents and Forces and they should be quite thoroughly dead. The only problem is that the match-up is good enough for me to find this waste of space. You could use those slots to deal with decks not among your best match-ups too.

Propaganda: An answer to all manners of swarm-decks; when racing and your guys fly, it's quite beneficial to make opponent's attacks slow as balls. You get in unimpeded while they twiddle around with their 1/2 Goblin Piledrivers or 3/2 Silvergill Adepts, deciding whether to improve their board or swing. The downside is that this doesn't directly trade with any of their cards, which in turn makes their removal-spells hurt more. That, and they tend to bring in arti/enc hate anyways which hits this also, reducing its effectiveness. That said, Chalices are often good in the same MUs.


4. Match-Ups

To come soon enough...


5. Frequently Asked Questions
Faerie Stompy is a deck with some potential rules-issues. While they aren't really too complex, they get asked from time to time so trying to pre-emptively answer the most common questions to save everyone some time.

Q: You play Sea Drake with one land in play. What happens?
A: Sea Drake's ability requires two targets. Without two lands, it cannot go on the stack. Free Drake.

Q: How do Chalices interact with manacost-based cards like other Chalices or Engineered Explosives?
A: On the stack, X is equal to the mana paid. So Chalice at 2 counters would counter an attempted Chalice at 1 counter, since converted casting cost of Chalice at 1 is 2. In all other zones, the X is 0, so Engineered Explosives at 0 destroys your Chalices.

Q: How does Misdirection interact with opposing counters?
A: You can basically always Misdirect the counter to target Misdirection. While resolving, Misdirection is still a legal target. It will then leave the stack and the counter will be countered as a state-based effect. This with targeted counters, anyways.

Q: How consistent is the deck?
A: It has to mulligan somewhat more often than your average Legacy-deck's due to hands with only brown mana sources being generally unplayable. That said, as the deck can often keep hands mostly on the power of Chalice alone, this is somewhat alleviated. With the addition of various card advantage effects and tutors, the deck is very consistent for a Chalice-deck, and you don't generally have to mulligan more than e.g. Zoo, though you mulligan for different reasons.

Q: Why play Faerie Stompy over e.g. Dragon Stompy?
A: Faerie Stompy's advantage is that it isn't a balls-on-the-walls deck. It can win without its lock pieces. It has a robust midgame plan and is perfectly capable of fighting the card advantage war against control-decks and racing aggro-decks. Due to its card choices, it's more elastic and capable of assuming more roles than most Chalice-decks. Its card advantage engine and lack of wasted resources spent on acceleration are big parts of this.

Q: Can you build Faerie Stompy without Sea Drake?
A: Yes, it is possible. The deck will lose some of its aggressive edge without the card and Back to Basics on the sideboard will become notably worse, but with the critical mass of decent 3-drops finally in print, a Sea Drakeless Faerie Stompy isn't that gimped. However, since the metagame is placing more and more of a premium on speed, the associated loss of speed is a hurdle anyways. Either way, refer to the "3. In-Depth Card Analysis" section for options.


6. Topics to Discuss

- Optimal construction of the manabase? Chrome Mox or Mox Diamond, at what ratio? Shoreline Ranger? Seat of the Synod?

- Which effects to maindeck and which to sideboard? For the first time ever, the deck has more good maindeckable options than it has slots. Pestermites, Sowers, Mulldrifters, Glen Elendra Archmages and company are all wonderful cards. Which make the cut?

- What equipment payload is the optimal? In this metagame, should Jitte/SoFI reign supreme?

- What builds beyond the standard exist and do they offer meaningful advantages over the traditional builds? Would a tempo-route with Daze be viable? What about more controllish build with actual mana counter too?

- What sideboard best hits the metagame as it stands? What do we want against Countertop? Zoo? Tempo Threshold? The various graveyard strategies? Is it time to maindeck a fetchable gravehate effect in the main?

- Is there promise in the 26 mana source list eschewing Chrome Mox entirely for Mox Diamond? Something more Staxish in that direction? What non-basics best take advantage of the opened landslots?

- Why the hell isn't this deck being played when it's an absolute metagame breaker? Have people decided it's not worth playing or why hasn't it been picked up in this new metagame?


7. History

Old Faerie Stompy-material for those interested in reading:
The First One (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3351)
The Second One (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5467)
Old MTGSalvation-thread (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=94223)
FS Interview for MTGSalvation (http://mtgsalvation.com/563-the-faerie-stompy-interview.html)
FS Interview for LegacyItalia (http://www.legacyitalia.it/intervista-a-jarno-pokka.html) (scroll down for the English translation)

Infinitium
03-06-2010, 08:43 AM
Nice writeup! You might want to mention that Ezperzoa and friends don't imprint on Chrome Mox, and possibly the interaction with Tangle Wire (which is always a consideration in decks with some 50+ permanents, many which doesn't mind getting tapped). About the Swords, I've always felt that party of SofaI's allure was the ability to decimate Merfolk/Goblins, but with most creatures Flying an active SoLaS should be enough to beat them. The lifegain is also generally more relevant versus other aggressive decks than the extra damage (since X/2's are scarce outside of Tribal) And, like you mentioned, it's better versus the decks poorer matchups (decks packing Deed in particular as well as Zoo).

dlg
03-06-2010, 11:13 AM
great work! i hope this will lead fs back to where it belongs =)

and i finally remember the card i was thinking of: Parallax Tide! It may decide the game in our favor especially with challice.

Kuma
03-06-2010, 11:25 AM
Nice Primer!

Llawan, Cephalid Empress costs 3U, not 2UU.

Malakai
03-06-2010, 11:55 AM
Parallax Tide is jank. Tangle Wire is bad in Legacy.

Djinn
03-06-2010, 12:17 PM
Very well written primer. Congrats on that. Let's hope we can provide some testing and some development to the deck :)

3ktor
03-06-2010, 12:41 PM
Underground Stompy

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Tombstalker

4 Force of Will
4 Snuff out

1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers

3ktor
03-06-2010, 12:43 PM
i have a probem with draw..does Sword of Fire and Ice is enough ?


.....post your opinion on this..

Aleksandr
03-06-2010, 04:55 PM
i have a probem with draw..does Sword of Fire and Ice is enough ?


.....post your opinion on this..

I heard that Mulldrifter (namely with SoLS) is quite good. ;-)

Nice primer, indeed!

Jon Stewart
03-06-2010, 07:03 PM
Underground Stompy


I don't think that list belongs here. It's way too inconsistent. Tombstalker requires double black mana. That's next to impossible to achieve with any consistency.

There is no reason what so ever to splash a color in this deck. None.

majikal
03-06-2010, 07:07 PM
I don't think that list belongs here. It's way too inconsistent. Tombstalker requires double black mana. That's next to impossible to achieve with any consistency.

There is no reason what so ever to splash a color in this deck. None.
I dunno, seems workable at least. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth should be in the list somewhere for sure. I don't know if Snuff Out and Tombstalker are really game-changing enough to warrant splashing black, but it's definitely not out of the question.

Clark Kant
03-06-2010, 10:13 PM
Even if it's workable. Why would it be worth doing that to the deck's manabase, and making it vulnerable to Wasteland, Blood Moon and colorscrew just to play Tombstalker and Snuff Out.

A.) This deck doesn't fill up the grayeyard anywhere near as fast as Pox or Dark Ritual and 1cc spell based decks to make Tombstalker come out quickly. Not to mention the BB in the casting cost.

B.) This deck has enough trouble with it's own lifetotal as it is thanks to Ancient Tomb even without Snuff Out. I would rather play Sower of Temptation or Control Magic and straight up steal the creature, or failing that slow them down by a turn or two with cards like Pestermite, Submerge or hell even Man o War while gaining tempo.

C.) By far the biggest problem with the Underground Stompy list is that it's NOT playing Engineered Explosives! If I ever to splash a color into F. Stompy for some reason, EE would be the first card I would make room for.

Back to topic, truly excellent primer Eldariel, one of the best I've ever read. That said, I'm surprised that you felt Basilisk Collar didn't even warrant a mention.

DuxDucis
03-06-2010, 10:16 PM
Thanks for refreshing the primer.

As mentioned in the old thread, Faerie Stompy has a lot of tools to fight today's metagame. A reasonable turnout at GP Madrid supports the fact that we can still compete despite recent printings of several cards that prove a challenge to the deck's success.


Q: Can you build Faerie Stompy without Sea Drake?

While not exactly the best build, I've played without Sea Drakes before. Juggernaut coupled with Cloud of Faeries was a lot of fun :D

Eldariel
03-07-2010, 12:39 AM
Lessee now:
@Infi&Kuma: Corrections made at Esperzoa & Llawan.

@dgl&Infi: Parallax Tides and Tangle Wires are IMHO suited for a sufficiently different strategy compared to FS that I don't think they warrant consideration right now. They'd go much better with Trinisphere-plan, but again, find the slots...

@3ktor: I actually eschewed the whole "splashes"-section, but I think Faerie Stompy is at its best mono-colored. The splashes, particularly green (that Goyf-thingy), white (Stoneforge Mystic, Aven Mindcensor, maybe even EE) and maybe even black offer some cards, but the creature base is already quite good so I'm not sure we just need such. The list you're suggesting seems to run too few beaters and thus has serious issues against removal-heavy decks. Further, the fact that Waste on your UB source can just end the game seems unalluring.

@Clark Kant: I haven't gotten to test the card at all in spite of having it in my SB for a while. As such, I really just can't say a thing about a card I have no experience with. I urge folks to give it a whirl and share the experiences though; it may be a useful effect in some match-ups, particularly the Lifelink.

@DuxDucis: Yeah, Juggernaut is a surprisingly good option for the slot. It's big as all hell (though smaller than Goyf...) and does just fine with the aggressive hands. It really demands Cloud of Faeries or such tho.


@Everyone: Thanks! Seems the primer is readable and all given nobody has clawed their eyes out yet. Pity, woulda wanted to see that.

At any rate, I'd like to hear folk's experiences with the extra counters. I think it may be the right time to consider them right now, particularly Daze. Also, the green-hate/blue-hate/Proge-hate SB in MUs where it's live.

dlg
03-07-2010, 05:17 AM
Misdirection: It's our FoW 5-8! Sometimes it's just crap but on the other side it can redirect the removal/burn/discard right into their face!
There are two questions about it - Which of them is better and how much FoW can a deck take?
I think we can take 6 FoW effects unless we loose to much - especially with Chrome Mox we might "imprint" 2-5 cards each game! Even for us it's a hard drawback!
Maybe a 2-2 cut with Mox Diamond can make it a bit better and it's also trinketable for EE^^

FoW or Misdirection? 4-2 or even 3-3, we have to figure it out...

Daze: We don't have enough Islands, it's a dead card after the 3rd round and we love to play challice 2 if possible - it's still a hot card but i prefer to combine it with wasteland, sinkhole, stifle, trinisphere or any sphere of resistence effects

3ktor
03-07-2010, 06:16 PM
...well...
the deck has MOX DIAMOND instead of CHROME MOX.. for the reason of 2 black mana... + 1 card in graveyard for Tombstalker with diamond...also SNUFF OUT and FOW hellps a lot to fill up your graveyard...+ 4 fetses..
NOW think that i can play first turn.. polluted delta for swamp + mox diamond --> 2 cards in graveyard + 2 black mana + no problem for blood moon+ i have a swamp to cast snuff out :O

AND yes EE would be a perfect idea couse this deck can produce 3 different mana + ( blue+black+it depends how many diamond you have on board)

BUT i could easily take out 1 tombstalker and add 1 more swamp..for mana stability , something like THIS:

Underground Stompy

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Tombstalker

4 Force of Will
4 Snuff out

2 Engineered Explosives
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers



......now... how can i get some more draw ? what to cut out ...?

3ktor
03-07-2010, 06:33 PM
xmxmxm..

Urborg isnt an answer in what i m looking for..the problem isnt 2 black mana..but 1 basic swamp for blood moon effect and snuff out..

Also i believe that this deck belongs here..its not a Demon Stompy , its still actually s Sea Stompy , but the name doesnt matter..

As for why to splash black.. SNUFF OUT + TOMBSTALKER give to this deck a great tempo..snuff takes out goyf..and stalker has toughness 5 and no 3 like all other creatures in this deck...which are all 1 lightning bolt ( in case that chalise isnt on board-or think incinerate or hellix.. ) also 5 in attack with challise for 1 is 4 turn lock with no drawbacks ( +1 force and 1 snuff out in hand.. )
also tombstalker + snuff out get over counterbalance ;)

BUT the creatures are few..moreover the drawing.. SO HOW LIKE THIS:

Sea Stompy

4 Mulldrifter
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Tombstalker

4 Force of Will
4 Snuff out

1 ??? ( jitte ? needle ? EE ? )

4 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Vault of Whispers



I have also to say..that i have tested this build and with mox diamonds instead of Chrome moxes the Mulligans are reduced dramaticaly...

This board requires the use of correct spelling and punctuation. Please take more time to write your posts: right now they are a pain in the ass to read. Also, it would be smart of you to read the Site Rules. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?7455-Site-Rules-for-MTS&goto=newpost#post432532) Thank you. ~ Nihil Credo

Holiday
03-08-2010, 11:15 AM
Nice primer, Eldariel, and great timing, as I'm currently in the process of building this!

Looking forward to the matchup analysis.

Skeggi
03-08-2010, 11:53 AM
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Island
4 Chrome Mox
1 Shoreline Ranger

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Mulldrifter
2 Pestermite

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sigil of Distinction
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Switch Shoreline Ranger for Seat if the Synod and you've got my list.

Biggest problem I encounter with this list is that I often don't have enough creatures and I have problems with Qasali Pridemage. In this list I think I'm going to replace 1 Sword of Fire and Ice with a maindeck Glen-elendra Archmage.

But unfortunately that doesn't deal with the other problem: Qasali Pridemage. The way I see it, this guy singlehandedly killed all stompy decks.

dlg
03-08-2010, 12:27 PM
Biggest problem I encounter with this list is that I often don't have enough creatures and I have problems with Qasali Pridemage. In this list I think I'm going to replace 1 Sword of Fire and Ice with a maindeck Glen-elendra Archmage.

But unfortunately that doesn't deal with the other problem: Qasali Pridemage. The way I see it, this guy singlehandedly killed all stompy decks.

Could we stop crying about the Pridemages? He's removing just ONE artifact of us - Challice 1 or an equipment. Why aren't we complaining about Path to Exile? I think because we all already know StoP.
Which decks are playing Qasali? There are only a few: Zoo, Bant and some Survival lists.
So we have to check and improve our matchups against Zoo, Bant and my hate-matchup survival (got once a loosing spree of 7 games...)^^

VsTheWorld
03-08-2010, 03:10 PM
Could we stop crying about the Pridemages? He's removing just ONE artifact of us - Challice 1 or an equipment.

While that is true, removing that one artifact (Chalice or a Sword) all of a sudden turns on on all of those dead Bolts/Paths/StPs and makes the game that much harder to win.

Djinn
03-08-2010, 04:58 PM
In the GP I faced 4 zoos, and they all played 4 Qasali Pridemage maindeck. I can tell of 4 games they played it and I still won. The games I lost were because I did not draw chalice of the void or my hand was less aggressive. Whereas a single event testing is nothing compared to a 100-matches testing series, I am in a good position the say it's a card I do not want to come across but definitely it does not have the 'good game clause' on its text

3ktor
03-08-2010, 05:33 PM
Qasali Pridemage : one more reason to run Snuff out...

dlg
03-08-2010, 05:40 PM
maybe we have to play a bit different against zoo than usual like "don't be afraid to play 2 challice at 1" or even needle him preboard^^

cards like snuff out won't help if they are on 4 mana otherwise any of our actual equipment will deal with qasali until he could be used!

Skeggi
03-09-2010, 04:04 AM
We already run Pithing Needle maindeck. The problem against decks like Zoo, is that you want to drop your Chalice@1 asap, otherwise you'll get beaten down by the fast aggro and your own Tombs too fast.

Zoo is one of the harder match-ups for Faerie Stompy. If you can't get your Chalice@1 to stick, and often you can't, it races you with cheaper creatures with about the same body. Along with that they have plenty of removal and burn. So what are good options against Zoo? We should come up with a solid sideboard plan against fast aggro.

Weatherseed Faeries seem way too narrow, with Back to Basics they'll just end up fetching basics. Hibernation seems okay, but doesn't help against Kird Ape, Loam Lion or Steppe Lynx.

Perhaps we should resort to some more defensive cards like Glacial Wall, Tidal Wave, Wall of Deceit or Wall of Tears? Ofcourse, most of these walls aren't exactly good with equipment, but I'm willing to test some.

Eldariel
03-09-2010, 04:50 AM
Submerge is excellent. Misdirection too. Control Magic overloads their Qasalis some more. And if you for whatever reason don't rely on Chalice at 1, Relic-fetch to shut down Grim & Goyf and slow down KoR is an option too. Though the basic plan of "Chalice at 1, at 2 if you draw second, Force Qasali if you don't and if they draw it, second Chalice at 1 if you don't have time to play Chalice at 2" has served me really well. Do you truly find the MU to be as difficult as you make it out to be? They don't run Force, they don't run Daze, cutting into their tempo tools quite a bit. They only have 4 MD ways to remove Chalice, all of which are horribly slow (3 is Krosan Grip-mana). If they have to remove Chalice, even if they do it, you can generally beat them. They can't let Jitte get online and they can't really race SoFI efficiently.

Btw, just tested Dazes a bit; don't like at all, how they are dead topdecks. I don't think this deck wants any; so many matches are won 'cause your live topdecks are so brutal that I don't really wanna touch that aspect.

Skeggi
03-09-2010, 05:27 AM
The problem with Zoo is the overabundance of removal: Path to Exile removes everything, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix and Chain Lightning remove all your creatures except Serendib Efreet. While Serendib Efreet isn't exactly my prime choice against Zoo; they race him way too easily. I already have Control Magic in the sideboard, I love it. But it's still pretty slow. It's hard to stabilize when they're beating face. I'll try the Submerges and Misdirections.

And what of Goblins and Merfolk? I've come very close to giving them up. Goblins is way too explosive and Merfolk is unblockable. Our prime weapon, Chalice@1 isn't exactly useful there either.

What do you think of this sideboard:


3 Submerge
3 Control Magic
2 Glen Elendra Archmage (running 1 maindeck)
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Misdirection
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives

Eldariel
03-09-2010, 06:25 AM
The problem with Zoo is the overabundance of removal: Path to Exile removes everything, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix and Chain Lightning remove all your creatures except Serendib Efreet. While Serendib Efreet isn't exactly my prime choice against Zoo; they race him way too easily. I already have Control Magic in the sideboard, I love it. But it's still pretty slow. It's hard to stabilize when they're beating face. I'll try the Submerges and Misdirections.

And what of Goblins and Merfolk? I've come very close to giving them up. Goblins is way too explosive and Merfolk is unblockable. Our prime weapon, Chalice@1 isn't exactly useful there either.

What do you think of this sideboard:


3 Submerge
3 Control Magic
2 Glen Elendra Archmage (running 1 maindeck)
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Misdirection
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives


...I don't know what you're doing differently than me 'cause you seem to be having different results against all the aggressive archetypes. I count Goblins and Merfolk among my BEST match-ups and if I had to pick one MU to play all tournament, it would be Goblins; I very rarely lose except on the draw to their stonecold nuts with a mediocre hand. Like, on the play both have huge trouble with Chalice at 1; Goblins just don't function without any mana cheating (and their mana denial is much worse) and Merfolk can't really leverage their Standstills. Goblins generally can't swing into your guys and once you get Jitte or SoFI online (for which they basically have no say), it's game over as you remove the key Goblins and just keep swinging. It's worth noting that as Goblins are really low on targeted removal nowadays (generally only a few Incinerators), Sower of Temptation is quite awesome against them. Completely blanks their Warren Weirdings if any, and removes key tempo pieces like Warchief or Lackey while also giving you Pileblockers.

Merfolk is much the same; get equipment online and you win. They don't have any answers to Sower except maybe their own Jittes so stealing non-LoA Lords is a total gamebreaker, though of course you optimally just kill them. Daze is a tempo setback early on for them as they need 2 mana to do anything so unless they have Vial going (which you generally can Needle tho G1 you have a few excess Chalices), they generally can't leverage it early on giving you freedom to develop the board and their guys are generally too small to attack profitably without LoA in presence. If LoA is there, Sower non-LoA merfolk; LoA itself can't attack so meh.


On the draw I sideboard Chalices out in both MUs, save for 1 copy (depending on how much I have to bring in) with EE and extra Needle coming in, along with Control Magic-effects and such. I'm probably testing few Llawans for the Countertop Progenitus MU; they could come in handy. I'm also SBing two Blue Elemental Blasts for Goblins (and Burn and Aggro Loam and such) to compound the ways you have to stop turn 1 Lackey (which really is the way they win; if Lackey doesn't connect, you're just plain too fast for them).

On the play, all 4 Chalices stay against Goblins though against Merfolk, if you have good stuff to bring in, Needles are probably more efficient. Though two Chalices or so to set at 2 isn't bad; it tends to blank about 60% of their deck. You don't want to see multiples and can Trinket for Chalice at 2 though so if that's your plan, 2 max. Merfolk's nuts tend to be a bit worse than Goblin's nuts since it tends to involve free counters in numbers making fighting it harder while Goblins are still limited to spell per turn so if you have that Force for the Lackey, it just ain't coming through.

EE is allstar vs. Goblins (really takes the wind outta their sails) and decent against Merfolk, but against M, Needles are better.

Skeggi
03-09-2010, 07:21 AM
I very rarely lose except on the draw to their stonecold nuts with a mediocre hand. Like, on the play both have huge trouble with Chalice at 1; Goblins just don't function without any mana cheating
This may be just me, but I have problems of consistently dropping a Chalice@1 turn 1, whether it's on the play or on the draw. I don't always have the Chalice, I don't always have the acceleration. Sometimes I can power out a Trinketmage turn 1, but usually a turn 2 Chalice@1 is too late. Also their Piledrivers are a real pain. The explosiveness of Goblins combined with unblockable Piledrivers and Tomb damage make for a very hard match-up indeed. I don't really see how good EE works in this match as the Goblins have a very varied curve. I suppose you can only hit tokens, Lackeys and Vials. But even if you kill all that, they still have Instigators and Warchiefs to speed up things. Mind you, I mostly test against mono red Goblins, as that's probably the strongest version.

What do you mean by Merfolk can't really leverage Standstills? As far as I know, just like against any other deck a turn 1 Vial, turn 2 Standstill is a very strong play against Faerie Stompy. We're forced to break the Standstill and likely to lose. Using a Sower on a Wakethrasher is one of the better things you can do, but even then, besides the fact that Sower is Daze-sensitive, there are Merfolk builds with either their own Sowers, Jittes or just a bunch of Merfolk to outrace you.

The main problem I encounter, is that I often find I cannot drop a Chalice@1 against either deck before they have a Vial or other 1 drop out, nullifying the strength of the Chalice, making Chalice a more or less dead card, while they can race me with ease.

Holiday
03-09-2010, 09:27 AM
Would running Propaganda be a viable option against goblins and zoo?

Eldariel
03-09-2010, 09:42 AM
This may be just me, but I have problems of consistently dropping a Chalice@1 turn 1, whether it's on the play or on the draw. I don't always have the Chalice, I don't always have the acceleration. Sometimes I can power out a Trinketmage turn 1, but usually a turn 2 Chalice@1 is too late. Also their Piledrivers are a real pain. The explosiveness of Goblins combined with unblockable Piledrivers and Tomb damage make for a very hard match-up indeed. I don't really see how good EE works in this match as the Goblins have a very varied curve. I suppose you can only hit tokens, Lackeys and Vials. But even if you kill all that, they still have Instigators and Warchiefs to speed up things. Mind you, I mostly test against mono red Goblins, as that's probably the strongest version.

What do you mean by Merfolk can't really leverage Standstills? As far as I know, just like against any other deck a turn 1 Vial, turn 2 Standstill is a very strong play against Faerie Stompy. We're forced to break the Standstill and likely to lose. Using a Sower on a Wakethrasher is one of the better things you can do, but even then, besides the fact that Sower is Daze-sensitive, there are Merfolk builds with either their own Sowers, Jittes or just a bunch of Merfolk to outrace you.

The main problem I encounter, is that I often find I cannot drop a Chalice@1 against either deck before they have a Vial or other 1 drop out, nullifying the strength of the Chalice, making Chalice a more or less dead card, while they can race me with ease.

If I don't have turn 1 Chalice, I don't waste time with the entire card; I may drop it at 2 at an opportune time, but if I don't have the Chalice, I'll just fetch a Needle or Sigil and start beating. Preferably, I'd cast something but Trinket Mage first given the option. Really, both of the decks are built assuming they have access to their mana cheaters. If they don't, their insufficient manabase and awkward curve will catch up to them.

This is why I like EE against Goblins so much; it kills their cheaters. Without cheaters, they aren't very impressive. It's mostly there to blast Lackey and Vial, but doing just that tends to win the game. In my experience, anyways.

This is why I Chalice at 1 turn 1 on the play is so devastating. And yeah, after Vial lands, it does nothing. I prefer just dropping a guy, then guy, then equipment or so, depending on whether I see an opening. If I get an active Jitte or SoFI, I just win. And yeah, against unknown opponents I usually avoid casting turn 1 Trinkets since I need a better idea of what to fetch. Turn 1 Chalice is bombtastic, but turn 1 Trinket finding Chalice is very MU-dependent; it can be great against e.g. Tempo Thresh and ANT, but against Countertop, Goblins or Merfolk it's just mediocre.


And what I mean by them not being able to leverage Standstill is that if we're on the play, we can often acquire sufficient board presence and/or stop their Vial to prevent them from casting Standstill profittably. If we go turn 1 dude, turn 2 dude, they won't cast it unless they have a death wish. Likewise, if we go turn 1 Chalice or turn 2 Trinket > Needle, chances are they won't be casting it without access to active Vial, with enemy having threats on board.

On the draw, we of course have much harder time stopping particularly Vial > Still, which is exactly the play from which bulk of their wins come. Though of course, they often draw "bunch of stuff that doesn't matter" and get dismantled by SoFI or Jitte. Really, I play both cards at huge priority in both MUs; whenever it seems like I could plausibly resolve them and get a swing, I tend to do just that. Vs. 'Folk, I generally kill Lords ASAP if I can avoid having to deal with Vial-in-resp that way.

Sower is indeed countered by their own, but I find they have much more trouble casting their Sowers and we can often cast our Sowers Daze-proof. And we tend to have more Jittes than they, not to mention another set of equipment entirely. And if they get Jitte and we don't, we tend to have Needle to address that. But yeah, I've never been unhappy to be paired against either. I've lost to Merfolk slightly more than to Gobs, which isn't really surprising since they have more efficient tempo tools against us while Goblins is better at grinding out games, something we don't tend to do. Still, most of my losses to 'Folk have come from being on the draw and getting turn 1 Vial, turn 2 Standstill, Force my Force'd.

Clark Kant
03-09-2010, 11:14 AM
Would running Propaganda be a viable option against goblins and zoo?

Yes I think so.

I would play four in the board to use against Ichorid, Zoo, Goblins, Bant, Merfolk and some other random aggro matchups. They slow them down by a few turns if nothing else. And those few turns is plenty of time to get a flyer down and equipped and going to town.

Without Propaganda, the only real shot this deck has to race aggro is to get a Chalice on the board and hope that it stays there.

I'm very surprised that Eldariel made no mention of the card in his primer.

Eldariel
03-09-2010, 02:05 PM
Yes I think so.

I would play four in the board to use against Ichorid, Zoo, Goblins, Bant, Merfolk and some other random aggro matchups. They slow them down by a few turns if nothing else. And those few turns is plenty of time to get a flyer down and equipped and going to town.

Without Propaganda, the only real shot this deck has to race aggro is to get a Chalice on the board and hope that it stays there.

I'm very surprised that Eldariel made no mention of the card in his primer.

Mmmhm. I just forgot about it. I never played it beyond my initial testing where I found it unnecessary. I simply don't like cards that don't trade with opponent's cards in a deck not dedicated to resource denial; strategically it feels unsound. It could definitely have a place against e.g. Ichorid, but I feel that MU is plenty good with all the Trinkets and gravehate. I simply don't see what I'd take out for Propagandas vs. Merfolk or Goblins; what MD cards are truly worse? This...tunnelvision is mostly why I forgot to mention it; it's not a card I find playable myself so I failed to mention it. I'll add it, I guess.

The "other" real shot, I wonder why people constantly ignore it, is using equipment. Honestly, equipment is our trumpcard in the aggro MUs. Jitte or SoFI just wrecks the other aggro-decks. I've never had trouble winning with either online and we pack plenty of both.

Skeggi
03-10-2010, 02:22 AM
Back to Basics + Propaganda makes sure a deck like Bant Aggro can't win against you (if you shoot down the Hierarchs with SoFI or Jitte). It does take quite some sideboard space, so I'm uncertain if you can run both. Obviously the two are synergestic, so when you have one, you at least should consider the other.

Would anyone be so kind to post his sideboard along with what the sideboard plan would be in the following matches: Tribal, Zoo, CounterTop with Firespout, Bant Aggro with Progenitus, Ichorid, ANT, Reanimator?

Eldariel
03-10-2010, 07:58 AM
Back to Basics + Propaganda makes sure a deck like Bant Aggro can't win against you (if you shoot down the Hierarchs with SoFI or Jitte). It does take quite some sideboard space, so I'm uncertain if you can run both. Obviously the two are synergestic, so when you have one, you at least should consider the other.

The huge question is, what do you take out? Equipment? Forces? Creatures? Chalices? I'm not satisfied with those answers; I could see taking out Chalices vs. Bant, but that's only 3-4 cards and you have at least 6 coming in if you want any kind of chance of executing your plan.


Would anyone be so kind to post his sideboard along with what the sideboard plan would be in the following matches: Tribal, Zoo, CounterTop with Firespout, Bant Aggro with Progenitus, Ichorid, ANT, Reanimator?

I would, but I'm just testing new sideboard cards and I lack a set sideboard right now so I'm not in a position to do this. I can dig out my last steady SB, but it's really sorta obsolete (predates NO > Proge being commonly played), the reason I'm testing out new SB in the first place.

Clark Kant
03-11-2010, 01:57 AM
The huge question is, what do you take out? Equipment? Forces? Creatures? Chalices? I'm not satisfied with those answers; I could see taking out Chalices vs. Bant, but that's only 3-4 cards and you have at least 6 coming in if you want any kind of chance of executing your plan.

If you're siding out Chalices, the answer to your question of what else to side out is probably Trinket Mage.

Back when I played the deck regularly (I still love the deck, but just dont' have the time to play Magic much these days), here's the cards that I often sided out...

Shoreline Ranger (I never played it though, but it seems like a card that could be cut if you're desperate to side in some key cards)

Sower of Temptation if you're playing a matchup where there's few or no creatures that you would want to steal. This was only done versus combo and control decks.

Trinkets like Pithing Needle, EE or Sigil of Distinction depending on the matchup.

Mulldrifter and Pestermite (they are some of the weaker threats in the deck)

Chalice of the Void. I only did this rarely because most matchups, Chalice is awesome. But occasionally, there's some matchups where it's completely useless (esp versus other Stompy or Stax variants).

Trinket Mage is one of the weaker cards in the deck. I wouldn't hesistate to side it out especially if you're already siding out chalices. Another situation where you side it out is in matchups where Chalice is useful enough that you wouldn't want to side it out, but not neccesarily gamebreaking enough that you would want to invest two turns of mana, one turn from Trinket Mage, and one for Chalice, just to cast it.

Equipment - whichever equipment (I played both SOFI and SOLS) or Jitte, was least useful in the matchup.

Force of Will! (Yes, imho, there's certain matchups where I personally feel that very little my opponent can possibly play is actually worth the two for one trade of business spells that FoW neccesitates. Just think back to the number of situations where you didn't even end up using FoW the entire game because you were better off just playing whatever blue card it is that you would have to discard to FoW. And then think of how much better that hand would have been if even the FoW itself was another bomb like Propaganda or B2B that you could have played. If you ask me, the real reason that every blue deck should maindeck 4 FoW is because there's certain matchups where you always want FoW (Ad Nauseum, Belcher etc), but outside of those matchups, there's actually several matchups where it would actually be better if FoW was another threat/bomb rather than a counter that you had to dispose of some other key business spell to be able to make use of.

As for why I don't think Zoo is a great matchup...

Equipment isn't a magic fix. Yes its awesome, but it's somewhat slow and mana intensive, and it can be difficult to both get both a threat and equip it, without having that threat meet removal early on.

It's pretty important to side in Propaganda (and Back to Basics) versus Zoo. If you don't get down a Chalice turn one, they can put you on a turn four clock, and burn out anything that gets in their way.

Propaganda slows down their clock by atleast another three-four turns even without Back to Basics to lock them out. This gives you the time you need to resolve an equipment and a threat and turn the tables.

Aleksandr
03-16-2010, 06:10 AM
@Clark Kant: Very well written!

Zalren
03-16-2010, 11:26 AM
Just wondering why no Esperzoa in this deck? That way you have all three big beaters for blue. Especially if you play Seat of the Synod you can bounce lands. Or add in Tangle Wire or Smokestack. The post above mine suggested taking out Trinket Mage and Pestermite, you could find room for more artifacts that would do well with Esperzoa.

Something like this:

4 x Esperzoa
4 x Mulldrifter
4 x Sea Drake
4 x Serendib Efreet

4 x Chalice of the Void
4 x Smokestack
4 x Tangle Wire
4 x Trinisphere

4 x Mox Diamond

1 x Academy Ruins
4 x Ancient Tomb
4 x City of Traitors
4 x Darksteel Citadel
4 x Seat of the Synod
7 x Island

Skeggi
03-17-2010, 06:48 AM
I tried a build that employed Tsabo's Web as Esperzoa's target creating a draw-engine. Unfortunately it works too slow and often Esperzoa gets killed one way or another. Next to that, what Eldariel said.



Esperzoa: Printing of this guy caused quite the stir; another playable 4/3 flyer for 2U? Since then it has died down a bit, as its drawback is far larger than that of Sea Draka. Sure, it can be used to reset Needles and Chalices, but most of the time? You want that Chalice in play, having empty Moxes is against your plan, returning imprinted Moxes is a disaster and you'd rather not give opponent the window to use whatever ability you deemed dangerous enough to Needle. And returning equipment? Nice mana investment there. Also, as an artifact creature it is much easier to remove than rest of the deck, something that's often an issue with equipment. That said, it's still a 4/3 for 2U and warrants consideration. Note: Artifacts do not imprint on Chrome Mox no matter how colored. They pitch to FoW just fine though.

Clark Kant
03-17-2010, 01:37 PM
Rather than use Tsabo's Web, I would MUCH rather use Ankh of Mishra as an Esperzoa target.

Ankh of Mishra can be played turned one. You don't play fetchlands so you're not as effected by it.

It devastates your opponents for playing fetchlands doing between 8-12 damage (plus the 1 additional damage they take each time use the fetchland), and even if they don't (rare), it still gets in a good 6 damage or so.

So the card is good enough to play in the deck without Esperzoa.

But WITH Esperzoa, you basically can bounce Ankh back to your hand any turn you wish to play lands to get around taking any lifeloss for yourself, while still preventing your opponent from doing so.

Holiday
03-22-2010, 08:31 AM
I've tested 4 different lists against Zoo and played a very large number of games. Pre-board I am less than 30%. Is this just an abyssmal matchup?

Even in games when I was able to land Turn 1 chalice, I often still lost.

I have tested propaganda maindeck and it didn't improve my zoo matchup. I even got mad and splashed red for firespout, and only won 3/10.

Does anyone have a list that they claim can beat Zoo pre-board at least 50%, or is that just asking for too much?

Skeggi
03-22-2010, 08:36 AM
I have the same problem and adressed it. Eldariel gave this reply:

Submerge is excellent. Misdirection too. Control Magic overloads their Qasalis some more. And if you for whatever reason don't rely on Chalice at 1, Relic-fetch to shut down Grim & Goyf and slow down KoR is an option too. Though the basic plan of "Chalice at 1, at 2 if you draw second, Force Qasali if you don't and if they draw it, second Chalice at 1 if you don't have time to play Chalice at 2" has served me really well. Do you truly find the MU to be as difficult as you make it out to be? They don't run Force, they don't run Daze, cutting into their tempo tools quite a bit. They only have 4 MD ways to remove Chalice, all of which are horribly slow (3 is Krosan Grip-mana). If they have to remove Chalice, even if they do it, you can generally beat them. They can't let Jitte get online and they can't really race SoFI efficiently.
I haven't been able to test it yet though. Thank goodness Zoo's presence in the European meta is going downhill.

Eldariel
03-22-2010, 11:03 AM
Look at Djinn's list; he's posted a very respectable pre-board win record against Zoo in the GP (and has done so for an extended period of time). I'm pretty confident it's about how you approach the match-up. Propaganda is, IMHO, the wrong approach as that enables them to assume the control role and just answer your guys while you're down a card. If you side out creatures for Propaganda, their job of killing all your dudes became really easy, and they can just assume the control-role, breaking your face with one big hit at a time while killing all the guys you play.

If you side out equipment for it, you side out gamebreakers for stall effects. In the MU, I'd only side out gamebreakers for other gamebreakers, or weaker MD cards (maybe 1-2 creatures and Needles) for utility. We definitely need to keep an eye on the target though.


You can find his list here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16684-GP-Madrid-Report&p=433142&highlight=#post433142

For the record, my list before I started experimenting was pretty close except Mulldrifter over Cloud of Faeries, 3 Sowers over the mishmash and 1 more land over Pestermite. And I was posting a rather good win percentage against Zoo too. Though I'm thinking maybe it'd be worthwhile to record an extended testing session against some Generic Zoo Build...


Either way, if you want further edge in the Zoo MU, the following cards should be high on the list to consider:
- Misdirection
- Weatherseed Faeries
- Control Magic (or Threads, but Control Magic is frankly just better here)

As far as MDables go. Sideboard can have more dedicated cards like Submerges, BEB and company. Though BEB is probably not worth it with Chalice being such a huge part of your gameplan.

Holiday
03-22-2010, 11:21 AM
Thank you for your responces. I'll be testing this list out with and without the changes you have suggested, Eldariel.

I agree about propaganda. It tested exceedingly well against goblins, but failed against zoo.

Sower was underwhelming against zoo unless I had Chalice or FoW protection. Without any protection Sower would steal something and then Zoo would remove sower and get their creature back next turn.

I already run Weatherseed Faeries in my board and I'll test Misdirection out once I get my maindeck down.

Along Bolts, Chain Lightning, and Path at the 1cc range, the Zoo list I'm testing against runs Lightning Helix which helps it get around Chalice and kill my creatures.

I'll post my results when I reach a conclusion.

Skeggi
03-22-2010, 11:32 AM
Have any of you tested Basilisk Collar?

hi-val
03-22-2010, 03:27 PM
Is it totally, totally slow to plan on boarding in Winter Orb and Pendrell Mist against Zoo? Alternatively, you can bring in Tabernacle, if you're made of dollars.

Also, I see Basilisk Collar as being great against Zoo because of lifelink but unplayable due to costing 1 when you want to Chalice that number all day long. Any potential for other lifelinking cards like Loxodon Warhammer?

Eldariel
03-22-2010, 07:53 PM
Is it totally, totally slow to plan on boarding in Winter Orb and Pendrell Mist against Zoo? Alternatively, you can bring in Tabernacle, if you're made of dollars.

Also, I see Basilisk Collar as being great against Zoo because of lifelink but unplayable due to costing 1 when you want to Chalice that number all day long. Any potential for other lifelinking cards like Loxodon Warhammer?

Heh. WOrb + Pendrell Mists is what I'd file under "too cute", rather than "too slow"; I'm quite confident you can find better uses for those card slots. Same with Tabernacle; I don't see mana denial plan being efficient by focusing only ~8-12 cards on it. Unlike Chalice, those cards do little on their own so they need a lot of support to pull the gameplan together.

I tested Basilisk Collar for a while and never ended up tutoring for it. It just...didn't feel all that good. I was never simply in a position where finding it over Chalice, Sigil, Needle, Mox/Land or EE was strategically sound, and when I did have need for it, it just didn't do all that much.


For Big Lox, 6 mana is quite a bit more than 5 in a deck that usually aims to generate mana sources along the lines of 2UU or 4U with 3 sources. As such, it's quite a bit weaker than both Swords here. Also, Jitte and SoFI generally just do better job at that role, though if wanting some lifegain equipment, SoLS isn't horrible either and was played here momentarily as control and midrange presented more of the field.

Lox is also more prone to having the equipped creature removed due to not pumping the butt nor granting relevant Protections. I'm mostly theorycrafting here, but on a strategic level, I do not think Loxodon Warhammer is a sound option. If we find we want more lifegain, considering SoLS in the SoFI slot may be worthwhile, but I've usually found having an equipped body is enough.


Oh, I totally forgot to state the obvious; Engineered Explosives is quite excellent against Zoo and something I always bring in. If you find yourself in trouble against Zoo pre-board, feel free to MD it over Needle. Needle makes Chalice lockdown easier, sure, but EE pops a bunch of Nacalts/Grims/Steppe Lynxes/Apes and slows down their assault by tons. If one runs off-color artiland or a singleton Mox Diamond, it can also KO the 2-drop crew.

On the other hand, I'm not sure whether Relic of Progenitus is good enough to bring in. EE can be used with Chalice in play to remove whatever slipped through but Relic is stopped by it. On the other hand, Relic turns their meanest animals into cute pets, at least momentarily, while cantripping making it a fine tool for buying time when on the defensive; a scenario where Chalice is unlike to be that useful.

Skeggi
03-23-2010, 03:36 AM
I'm trying to fit the new Jace in, but I can't find room. I don't want to give up any creatures. Perhaps the maindeck Pithing Needle for 1 Jace could be okay?

I tested against Enchantress yesterday though. Turns out I completely forgot about that match-up in the sideboard. Turns out, you don't really need a sideboard against Enchantress: all I could do was -2 Sower, +2 Glen Elendra. Just play your Chalices at 1 and at 2, and keep your counters for Solitary Confinement and you should be fine. When he resolves a Replenish, you're fucked though. We played about 3 matches: I won 2 games pre-board he won 1; post-board I won all the games I think.


Is it totally, totally slow to plan on boarding in Winter Orb and Pendrell Mist against Zoo? Alternatively, you can bring in Tabernacle, if you're made of dollars.
If you go down that road I suppose you end up with Blue Stax which sucks.


On the other hand, I'm not sure whether Relic of Progenitus is good enough to bring in.
I don't even run Relic of Progenitus in my sideboard because alot of decks where this card is good, Chalice@1 is better and Tormod's Crypt suffices. I would prefer just stealing the Tarmogoyf over simply crippling him for a few turns. Control Magic is good but perhaps Dominate is better?

Eldariel
03-23-2010, 08:01 AM
Dominate costs 3UU to control a Goyf; that's squarely one land more than Control Magic at 2UU. Further, Dominate's potency is pretty much at its limits there. You'll never Dominate Tombstalker, Sphinx of the Steel Winds, Blazing Archon, Baneslayer Angel or hell, Knight of Reliquary/Doran is gonna cost you a fortune. If Dominate was XUU, it might be consideration-worthy, but as it stands, Control Magic is just so much more efficient it's not really even funny.

Skeggi
03-23-2010, 09:49 AM
The idea behind Dominate is ofcourse that the creatures which are near-impossible to get are hardly played. Well, in my meta anyway. You'll see the occasional Tombstalker and Knight of the Reliquary, but every other creature you've mentioned I've never seen in a game of Legacy at a tournament. No, not even Doran. So far I'm using three Control Magics in my sideboard, and they're great, but at the moment, I'm considering a 2/1 split. Another advantage of Dominate is that you can cast it EoT or when attackers are declared. Now I'm not saying Dominate is heaven on earth or anything, it just seems that the reasons you mention don't weigh as much as the disenchant immunity and surprize effect it may have. I also have 4 Submerges in my sideboard to deal with most decks packing Tombstalkers and the Knights of Reliquary.

Eldariel
03-23-2010, 09:54 AM
The extra cost is the big thing. It requires 4 sources of mana in play to get a Goyf; you only need 3 sources to cast Control Magic. IMHO that alone is enough reason to not play it; instantness is nice as is undisenchantability, but not at the cost of being unable to cast it in the first place.

Dr. DOOM
03-23-2010, 10:21 AM
Hi, on the pre-release of Worldwake I came across this:

Pilgrim's Eye
3
Artifact Creature - Thopter Common
Flying
When Pilgrim's Eye enters the battlefield, search your library for a basic land, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

I was just wondering, with the 5 mana mulldrifters and 2uu sowers and the introduction of the slower to equip SoLaS, can this thing be included as a 3 or 4 of? I'm considering testing it in the following ways:
take out 2 pestermite and 1 mulldrifter,
or 1 chrome mox and shoreline ranger and 1 mulldrifter

Pros:
Card advantage
Tempo advantage
Fix high casting and equip costs, enable turn 2 sower or chalice @2 if needed.
Fix 4 colorless mana hands

Cons:
Decreased Blue count (think Fow, chrome mox)
Small body

What do you guys think?

Skeggi
03-23-2010, 10:38 AM
I'm willing to test it in the slot of Pestermite, that card has always been very unimpressive for me. But still, the blue count...

Holiday
03-23-2010, 01:13 PM
What is its power and toughness? Should I assume since its a Thoptor its an 0/X?

Lately I've found Pestermite to be more useful than I originally thought. I will also never run more than 3 mulldrifter.

Dr. DOOM
03-24-2010, 05:54 AM
What is its power and toughness? Should I assume since its a Thoptor its an 0/X?

Lately I've found Pestermite to be more useful than I originally thought. I will also never run more than 3 mulldrifter.

Forgot to mention, it is a 1/1 flyer.

The reason I consider including it is a situation I've been in too many times:

1. Your opponent drops a big guy you can't race (tombstalker, goyf, dreadnought etc.)
2. You play pestermite to tap the opponents's creature and have to use it the next turn for chump blocking or you lose.
3. You still did not draw the second blue mana source needed for Sower of temptation to steal the big creature.
4. You still lose.

The new way to handle this would be something like:

1. Your opponent drops a big guy you can't race (tombstalker, goyf, dreadnought etc.)
2. You play Pilgrim's Eye, drop a land, and use the Eye for chump blocking or you lose.
3. You play Sower of temptation to steal the big creature.
4. You win.

Djinn
03-26-2010, 07:24 AM
We need to make the deck more solid. Filling it out with crappy cards that do nothing if they are drawn by the 3rd turn onwards is not the way to go. The thopter is a good idea but definitely not worth it (unless someone proves me wrong with testing). The deck relies on speed, and definitely investing 3 mana on a 1/1 flyer is not what I call seizing your mana. The same goes for Esperzoa. Once I play a creature I want to protect it against removal and equip it asap to win the game. I do not want to keep bouncing cards (and don't tell me you are bouncing a chrome mox or something, because that means you have yet another extra DEAD card in your hand, and we are not very high on Card Advantage here).

Regarding the Zoo matchup. Mulldrifters are dead cards there. That is why I did not play them in the GP and I did quite well. You can't imagine how good Cloud of Faeries are in accelerating your piece of equipment one turn earlier or even to enable chalice for 2 in the 2nd turn, which was their main purpose when they were originally added. And definitely Misdirection and such works better than passive cards like Propaganda. I want my cards to win games, not to wander around the battlefield slowing down my opponent. The same goes for Relic of Progenitus. If I cast Trinket Mage I will go straight for Chalice/EE/Sigil. Would you waste your tutoring on Relic of Progenitus? If you do there is something you have made wrong by allowing the game to go to the long-term, where Zoo creatures are just bigger (Tarmogoyf/Knight of the Reliquary) and probably you are left out with no equipment (the dreaded Qasali Pridemage I do not think are that match-deciding by themselves).

Maybe my deck is less resilient, but I do not think the current Legacy metagame allows the use of Mulldrifter, and you definitely can't give up the acceleration provided by Cloud of Faeries. By the way, it also cycles. And pitches to FoW. And to Chrome Mox. If I had had the time I would have probably tested Thirst for Knowledge back in the deck, but I felt Mulldrifter is just not the right call nowadays. And even TfK might be too slowish. I wanted to have as many good cards in my starting seven as possible, and I was never happy to see hands where my plan was to cast a turn2 draw spell and hope for the nuts to come in. I'd rather see the faeries straight there and say 'keep' :)

Skeggi
03-26-2010, 10:40 AM
But you need your draw. There are basically two cards that can fill in that role for this deck: Thirst for Knowledge and Mulldrifter. As I see myself often with equipment but without creatures, I opt for Mulldrifter. Cloud of Faeries does something completely else: accelerate. Accelerate on colorless mana. I'm very unimpressed by Cloud of Faeries. I don't think Mulldrifter is the weakest card in the deck. It certainly isn't up for debate in my opinion. The weakest card in my current deck is Pestermite. I woul love to change that card. But I'm actually looking for something stronger, not weaker, although Cloud of Faeries may be an okay substitute, it's not exactly what I'm looking for. If they'd ever print a :2::u: 3/3 Flying with no drawback it would instantly fill the slot.

Djinn
03-26-2010, 11:49 AM
But you need your draw. There are basically two cards that can fill in that role for this deck: Thirst for Knowledge and Mulldrifter. As I see myself often with equipment but without creatures, I opt for Mulldrifter.

My question is: how badly do we need that draw effect? Once you test the deck without TfK or Mulldrifter you'll come to realise it's not these spells which make the deck good, but rather the reason why it's so slow sometimes.


Cloud of Faeries does something completely else: accelerate. Accelerate on colorless mana.

I wonder why I am SO happy about gaining colorless mana using this deck. Maybe because of the 4 chalice maindeck? Or maybe because of the 7 equipment pieces? Oh, maybe it has to do with the fact that all the cards cost a single coloured mana. And Cloud of Faeries stay in play! I have done so many sick plays with it I am just not giving them up. Cloud of Faeries is the glue that binds the deck together.


I'm very unimpressed by Cloud of Faeries. I don't think Mulldrifter is the weakest card in the deck. It certainly isn't up for debate in my opinion. The weakest card in my current deck is Pestermite. I woul love to change that card. But I'm actually looking for something stronger, not weaker, although Cloud of Faeries may be an okay substitute, it's not exactly what I'm looking for.

Pestermite is so good after you test it heavily. At first it seems clumsy and people who hasn't played Faerie Stompy enough or just look at the decklist wonder why a card that hasn't seen play in extended/standard Faeries list deserve a spot in Legacy. I would never play less than 3 maindeck, which I think is the right number. It has definitely won me some games tapping out some lands on the critic turn not to speak of tapping Tarmogoyfs all day long. Also, it is a good answer versus Maze of Ith (the only one if you went t1 chalice for 1 blindly and your opp is playing lands.dec)


If they'd ever print a 3/3 Flying with no drawback it would instantly fill the slot

The cost would have to be 2U for it to be playable, as 1UU would be bad for the deck. You can try Cloud Elemental or Rishadan Airship, but they have proved not to be good enough.

Dr. DOOM
03-26-2010, 12:53 PM
The thopter is a good idea but definitely not worth it ... The deck relies on speed, and definitely investing 3 mana on a 1/1 flyer is not what I call seizing your mana.

The thopter is a good idea, but then again it isn't? I don't understand what exactly you're trying to say there. You invest 3 mana on a 1/1 flyer AND an Island, speaking of seizing your mana and relying on speed...

Skeggi
03-26-2010, 01:09 PM
My question is: how badly do we need that draw effect? Once you test the deck without TfK or Mulldrifter you'll come to realise it's not these spells which make the deck good, but rather the reason why it's so slow sometimes.
If your only play is Mulldrifter you should have mulled. Later, it's a fantastic topdeck. Cloud of Faeries isn't.

Maybe because of the 4 chalice maindeck? Or maybe because of the 7 equipment pieces?
Way to sound arrogant, good job on that one. Anyhoo, I know there are alot of colorless spells in the deck, I've played it quite a bit myself. The problem I generally have isn't the amount of colorless mana I have. Generally I lack blue mana. No statistics about the amount of colorless spells can change that problem. Sower of Temptation needs double blue and I've had problem casting it when it was my only out.

Pestermite is so good after you test it heavily.
I've never played a version without Pestermite. And still I say it's the weakest card. I'm not so concerned about Maze of Ith by the way.

The cost would have to be 2U for it to be playable.
That's exactly what I said.

I understand Cloud of Faeries accelerates, but I haven't had too many situations where I needed more acceleration. I did encounter situations where I needed a big beater or a second blue mana. I must admit I like Cloud of Faeries potential of playing it and equipping it the same turn, but it stops there. Generally a terrible topdeck.

Holiday
03-26-2010, 01:28 PM
Pestermite is so good after you test it heavily. At first it seems clumsy and people who hasn't played Faerie Stompy enough or just look at the decklist wonder why a card that hasn't seen play in extended/standard Faeries list deserve a spot in Legacy. I would never play less than 3 maindeck, which I think is the right number. It has definitely won me some games tapping out some lands on the critic turn not to speak of tapping Tarmogoyfs all day long. Also, it is a good answer versus Maze of Ith (the only one if you went t1 chalice for 1 blindly and your opp is playing lands.dec)

I've tested a lot lately and at first I really didn't like Pestermite but it has performed very well. When you are racing an opponent, with creatures on the board, there have been many situations where you can play Pestermite to uptap Sea Drake or Efreet in order to block and kill one of their creatures. Your opponent might expect you to tap one of their creatures but its easier to overlook the untap effect.

On the other hand, I will be axiously awaiting a set with a stronger 2U flier. With the rate power creep is happening nowadays I doubt we'll have to wait very long.

Edit: Remember, if your creature is equip with SoFI, don't try to uptap it with Pestermite (because of Pro Blue.) Chances are, you're probably winning anyways.

DuxDucis
03-27-2010, 07:29 PM
I find no benefit in bringing back Cloud of Faeries. If I remember correctly I cut them when Pestermite and Mulldrifter hit the scene. Pestermite and Mulldrifter offer way more utility than CoF.

I prefer avoiding the 2 mana slot all together, having the option of setting Chalice at 1 or 2 only blanking one card in the deck is a huge advantage. (I run Jitte in the sideboard with a SoFI and SoLS split in the main.)

Pilgrim's Eye is terrible, what is there to cut for a 1/1 flyer?

Eldariel
03-27-2010, 07:44 PM
I prefer avoiding the 2 mana slot all together, having the option of setting Chalice at 1 or 2 only blanking one card in the deck is a huge advantage. (I run Jitte in the sideboard with a SoFI and SoLS split in the main.)

Well, it DOES cycle.

evanmartyr
03-29-2010, 10:00 PM
Explosive draws seem too good to give up on a creature that also cycles just to avoid possible negative interactions between it and Chalice of the Void.

Pestermite might be a solid replacement, due to an additional power and the lack of relevant difference between 2 and 3 mana cost in this deck, but I wouldn't discount Cloud of Faeries because of Chalice of the Void.

Also, it was mentioned a while ago, but Esperzoa/Tsabo's Web might be something worth considering in some environments. Esperzoa also lets you reset Pithing Needle if a more relevant threat than whatever you named on turn 1 shows up. Both do have somewhat negative interactions with Chalice of the Void, but it might be worth trying.

Also depending on your meta, a splash for Red with Flametongue Kavu or some similar card-advantage machine might be a viable option. Thoughts? Although I suppose you could just run Razormane Masticore or something beefy out of the Sideboard without shooting your manabase all to hell.

thorin_the_king
03-31-2010, 06:14 PM
have you guys tested the new jace in this deck? It seems that it would be realy powerful, unsummon your tarmo, hit agian, repeat, draw and stabilize hands...maybe it would be worth it considering it in the sower of tempation slots?

evanmartyr
03-31-2010, 06:35 PM
Problem with Jace is that he doesn't immediately provide a large tempo swing like Sower does, and using him just for repeated bounces on a 2mana creature isn't that super. I still pretty much agree with Eldariel, though, that UU is just *rough* to expect to have consistently.

Eldariel
04-01-2010, 08:48 PM
Explosive draws seem too good to give up on a creature that also cycles just to avoid possible negative interactions between it and Chalice of the Void.

Pestermite might be a solid replacement, due to an additional power and the lack of relevant difference between 2 and 3 mana cost in this deck, but I wouldn't discount Cloud of Faeries because of Chalice of the Void.

That's not the reason to give it up. The reason to give it up is that there's only a certain number of creature slots in the deck and lots of solid creatures competing for those slots; the reason to replace it is that something else might perform better. Now, the question, of course, is whether something indeed DOES perform better or not. And of course, in that comparison, Chalice @ 2 is a point against Cloud; not a decisive one, but another factor to note.


Also, it was mentioned a while ago, but Esperzoa/Tsabo's Web might be something worth considering in some environments. Esperzoa also lets you reset Pithing Needle if a more relevant threat than whatever you named on turn 1 shows up. Both do have somewhat negative interactions with Chalice of the Void, but it might be worth trying.

The issue here is that the deck doesn't want conditional beaters. When Esp is amazing, he's amazing, but when he sucks, boy does he suck. When you need someone to carry that equipment, casting it again every turn is NOT what you want to be doing especially since opponent might just draw a Force. Likewise, when you've finally fought that Chalice down against UGr Thrash, you DON'T want to bounce it to get your beater and yet, you need that beater to beat them before they get enough Goyfs to kill you.

Resetting Needles and even Chalices IS a useful ability to have, but not at the cost of having an unreliable threat. The deck's biggest vulnerability is frankly getting stuck without a threat; once you have creatures, chances are your equipment allows you to take over. If all your threats are answered, you're in a bad way. Compounding that for a relatively small gain like resets is probably not a good idea. If you want those resets, consider Rushing River; kicked, it can return two of their permanents, or set them back and allow you to reset whatever you want reset.


Also depending on your meta, a splash for Red with Flametongue Kavu or some similar card-advantage machine might be a viable option. Thoughts? Although I suppose you could just run Razormane Masticore or something beefy out of the Sideboard without shooting your manabase all to hell.

I don't like non-blue creatures. While a huge guy like Razormane could be useful, the lack of firepower (it doesn't kill Goyfs), being groundbound (sucking with equipment) and costing 5 are all downers. Oh, and the whole "discard a card per turn"-thing. First editions of the deck actually ran Masticore (the old one), but even then when creatures were mostly Goblins and Werebears, it just wasn't that amazing even when it got online; it's just a slow way to sweep the board and now it doesn't even do that.

Flametongue Kavu is the same, but worse as it requires a splash; before Goyf existed, it was a consideration and indeed, some people did splash it, but with Goyfsize being the standard, it just doesn't simply kill anything. And you don't want 187 creatures that don't kill anything since 4-mana 4/2 is NOT impressive, especially since it requires a creature in play just to cast. Frankly, these jobs are better handled by Sower of Temptation right now. Control Magic would also be on my radar long before Razormanes; controlling their fat > playing slightly smaller fat to control their fat.


And the Newjace? Again, I'm going to test it out, but 1) It's really vulnerable (the deck isn't at its best utilizing evasion when protecting a Planeswalker, y'know) and 2) 2UU is a very tight cost. I play Sower 'cause the card is really good; it's one-hand of times when it's resolved (without being immediately answered) and I've lost. Most importantly, it does something the deck desperately wants; deals with creatures. Especially the more troublesome ones you can't just beat in combat. Generally, it stabilizes ground when it survives too. Jace seems alright, but just...not as good. It doesn't attack or use equipment and its initial board impact is a 2-toughness body that bounces a creature. Sure, if it gets going it's nice but we don't even have fetches right now!

evanmartyr
04-02-2010, 03:21 AM
When Esp is amazing, he's amazing, but when he sucks, boy does he suck.

Yep. I was really just floating the idea hoping someone would come up with some crazy-wierd combo with some arcane, unheard-of artifact that would break matchups wide open.


While a huge guy like Razormane could be useful, the lack of firepower (it doesn't kill Goyfs), being groundbound (sucking with equipment) and costing 5 are all downers.

When equipped Razormane eats Goyfs for breakfast, and unless they want a nearly worthless chumpblock, it's one of the few grounded creatures that attack through a fully pumped goyf without caring much (shoot it every turn with the 3 damage, then attack and they get nowhere blocking it). I see your point about stealing their creatures being generally better than running large creatures of your own, but it might be worth testing. I guess it has the advantage of being a potential gamewinner on its own against the 56 other non-goyf cards in their deck, which is why I like it :P


And the Newjace?

My theory is that it's too slow, has no synergy with the deck, and his ultimate is nearly irrelevant to your game plan (although ultimates are hardly the reason most planeswalkers get played). I have a feeling that in this deck you're paying for either a Rushing River spread over two turns, a Sensei's Divining Top, or a slight life point buffer on your opponent's next attack. Versatile, and not terrible, but probably not worth the mana.

annoiato
04-08-2010, 07:34 PM
Hello to everybody, my name is Fabio. I'm new to Faerie Stompy and I would like to play this deck during my next local tournaments.


[Off topic: start]

Just to let you know how is evolving the meta in my country I cut and paste the statistics of the past 3 tournaments:

March 2010
Combo 11
Aggro 24
Aggro-Control 25
Control 15

February 2010
Combo 4
Aggro 8
Aggro-Control 17
Control 9

January 2010
Combo 15
Aggro 14
Aggro-Control 19
Control 13

[Off topic: end]


I would like to start sharing my points of view about the opening hand (7 cards, assuming we start the first game).

Reading the thread I realized that the two best scenario that follow deck's strategy are:
a) 1x dual land, 1x Chalice, 5x other cards (24% of probability)
b) 1x dual land, 1x Chrome Mox, 1x blue card, 1x creature (choosing from Sea Drake or Serendib Efreet), 3x other cards (12% of probability)

Scenario A is of course the best one and, if we can play Chalice@2 soon, we can easily win the game. For this reason we are happy if we can see Caliche or Trinket Mage in the other 5 cards or in the next 1-2 cards we will draw.

Scenario B is good and it becomes very good if we also see (and be able to play) an equipment in the other 3 cards or in the next 1-2 cards we will draw but it is not the best because it opens our creature to be target of CC1 opponent's removals.

In another scenario we could start with no Chalice but with Trinket Mage and 3 mana to play it and tutor for the Chalice: this is not a good choice because against certain Tiers it is not so good play Chalice@1 and it is better to tutor Pithing Needle or Sigil of Distinction.

Summarizing what I wrote I can say that:
1) starting with Chaliche@1 is the best
2) starting with Sea Drake or Serendib Efreet is a risk and it should be done only with an active Force Of Will
3) starting with Trinket Mage for Chalice is a gamble
4) I agree with the "deck core" (point 2b of the first page) suggested by Eldariel

Proceeding with the discussion I would like to talk about how to complete the deck starting from the "deck core".

I think that, at the present day, it is very difficult that a legacy game lasts for more than 5/6 turns and, on average, the winner is decided during turn 2/3. For these reasons I think we should choose cards that help us to gain Tempo advantage.

Best candidates are:
- Cloud of Faeries (mana accelleration, it gives us opportunity to play another spell, cycling)
- Pestermite (most of the time to tap opponent's land on upkeep)
- Spellstutter Sprite (if we board 4x Cloud of Faeries and 4x Pestermite than this creature could be interstring)
- Misdirection
- Condescend
- Runeboggle or Complicate

Not so good candidates are:
- Mulldrifter (good because it's a flying creature and it makes us draw but sub-optimal because when I need to evoke it I think it is better if I already have a good card to play in my hand instead).

General toughts:
- Control Magic is better than Sower because it suffers less removals (Sower is good if we have Chalice in play)
- Shoreline Ranger could be good (better pitched to Force of Will or imprinted to Chrome Mox rather then played as creature)
- I find Psionic Blast helpful in different scenario (for example as a creature removal or to burn opponent's live)
- I think Esperzoa is not viable
- I would like to consider artifact creatures to be included in the list
- Clouds of Faeries, Spellstutter Sprite, Jitte keep deck's mana curve more to 2 and this could be a problem versus CounterTop and SpellSnare

I term by thanking everyone who had the patience to read my post and saying that I think the deck should be mono-u!

from Cairo
04-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Best candidates are:
- Cloud of Faeries (mana accelleration, it gives us opportunity to play another spell, cycling)
- Pestermite (most of the time to tap opponent's land on upkeep)
- Spellstutter Sprite (if we board 4x Cloud of Faeries and 4x Pestermite than this creature could be interstring)
- Misdirection
- Condescend
- Runeboggle or Complicate

Not so good candidates are:
- Mulldrifter (good because it's a flying creature and it makes us draw but sub-optimal because when I need to evoke it I think it is better if I already have a good card to play in my hand instead).

General toughts:
- Control Magic is better than Sower because it suffers less removals (Sower is good if we have Chalice in play)


I agree with most of your points, but a few don't make sense to me.

I don't think Codescend or Complicate (Runeboggle seems irrelevant as it's stictly worse than Complicate) are ideal for the MD shell. The deck is pretty driven by sorcery speed disruption, creatures and equipment/activations. Leaving 3 mana up for a potential counterspell seems very counterproductive.

Mulldrifter is good. As mentioned it's a flying body; it's also card advantage. In the early game it can easily be the generic blue card for a Mox or FoW, if your hand has alot of gas already; in the late game it's an excellent top deck cause it puts a guy onto the field and helps refuel. Evoking it clearly isn't ideal, but it's a nice bit of added utility that can be used if one really needs to dig early.

Sower is better than Control Magic because it's a 3 for 1 instead of a 2 for 1. With Trinket Mages, Chalices, Equipment and FoWs there's plenty of means to protect Sower. The fact that it provides a means to clog the ground, by stealing a guy and an evasive threat in one card I think pushes it over the edge, in terms of justifying it's being more susceptible to destruction effects.

dlg
04-09-2010, 07:11 AM
Just an idea how to put more faeries into Faerie Stompy^^

Maindeck


4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet

3 Pestermite
3 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Cloud of Faeries

2 Sower of Temptation

3 Trinket Mage
2 Mulldrifter



3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sigil of Distinction



4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will



4 Chrome Mox
10 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors




Sideboard

3 Back to Basics
3 Glen Elendra's Archmage
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Pithing Needle
2 Misdirection
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt

Skeggi
04-09-2010, 08:17 AM
Any reasoning why you want more Faeries in Faerie Stompy? And if you insist on playing Faeries, I suggest you up your Sower count.

JeroenC
04-09-2010, 08:51 AM
Running Cloud of Faeries before filling out to the max of Pestermites is just a mistake. I'd drop 2 Clouds for another Spellstutter and a Mite. And the last one for your third sower.

dlg
04-09-2010, 11:39 AM
Our problem are faster decks like Zoo or Reanimator. CounterTop is still easy to beat with our mainspells at 3+ mana. Even if we drop a chalice 2, we just loose 6 cards - 3 more than the typical Jitte build!

I'm thinking of this list because we can counter nearly any legacy relevant spell with our spellstutters - even if we just play them end of turn to set a creature in play for our equipments they're great.

Cloud of Faeries are still a great card to fix some mana problems, they raise the faerie count for free, can be equipped and cycled if we need so!

I had to cut 1 Trinket, 1 Sower, 1 Shoreline Ranger, 1 Pestermite, 1 Needle and 1 Mulldrifter to get 6 free slots for this "mini-counter-combo".

Skeggi
04-09-2010, 11:59 AM
Our problem are faster decks like Zoo or Reanimator.
Why do you think Spellstutter Sprite is good against these decks?

dlg
04-09-2010, 01:09 PM
To defeat Zoo we need to slow them down and get equipments online for lifegain or more damage. Zoo kills us with their mass creatues while they handle any bigger creature with removal (Path, Bolt, Helix, Chain - after boarding even Red Elemental Blast or Swords) so Spellstutter is everytime a cc 1 counter (we don't get every game a chalice) or even more with Pestermite/Cloud. So we slow them down or save our creatures and gain one more - 2 for 1.
And we get the "tap out because we got no creature and won't attack with an equipment next turn"-playtricks with 6+ flash creatures!

Reanimator will combo in turn 2-4 and if we can't stop the combo we will loose against a good player. Spellstutter helps to stop their utility spells (all at 1 or 2 mana and almost all at 1!) so we can win the damage race or the upcoming counterwar.

Skeggi
04-12-2010, 02:55 AM
It's been a while since I attended a tournament with my beloved Faerie Stompy, but Eldariel's new primar reignited my old flame, so I started some testing and picked it up for a small local tournament. After testing (on MWS it's hard because serious testers hardly take FS serious so you get a Player Lost) I came with the following list:

Team ADHD's Faerie Stompy

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Mulldrifter
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Glen Elendra Archmage

4 Force of Will
1 Control Magic

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sigil of Distinction
1 Pithing Needle

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Island
1 Seat of the Synod


Sideboard:
2 Control Magic
3 Submerge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Trinisphere
3 Tormod's Crypt


You'll notice there are no Pestermites or Cloud of Faeries. They always proved very disappointing in testing. They have been replaced with maindeck Glen Elendra Archmage. I've also made a cut in the number of equipment. While Eldariel says one of the strong aspects of this deck is the use of equipment, and I totally agree with him, testing showed that 7 equipment was too much. So I cut 2 Sword of Fire and Ice: the drawengine I find in Mulldrifter and generally Umezawa's Jitte is a much better piece of equipment. I cut two pieces of equipment because they are generally bad topdecks. Usually, when you're in a hard spot, you're waiting on a creature, not another piece of equipment. In this equipment-light build, I trinketed more often to a Sigil of Distinction but I never found myself short of equipment.

Anyhoo, so far for the testing-analogy. Now for the tournament results:

Match 1: Teammate with UGR CounterTop
Yay, my luck, first round I get paired against on of my teammates, and ofcourse it's the one guy I test most games with. We both know he has the advantage, because he has nasty stuff like Engineered Explosives, Vedalken Shackles and Firespouts. Not good news for Faeries Stompy.
Game 1: I win the die rol and start of with a turn 1 Sea Drake. I know this can be a strong play because he has no spot removal. After a few turns of exchanging counterspells with equipment and on my precious and awesome maindeck Glen Elendra Archmage he's at 2 life and I'm about to swing for the win, but he is able to land a Sower of Temptation. I try to land a Serendib Efreet twice, but he has a Force of Will both times (1 hardcasted!). Then, the tables were turned and he beats me down.
Game 2: I have a nice hand and could land a turn 1 Chalice@1, but I know I need more and also have a Pithing Needle in my hand which I want to use to preemptively stop Vedalken Shackles, because from testing, it's game over when he lands that card. So I land a turn 1 Trinket Mage to grab a second Chalice of the Void. He goes turn 1, Grim Lavamancer. Nasty, I decide to take the bait and go turn 2: Pithing Needle on Grim Lavamancer and Chalice@1. He does nothing on turn 2. Turn 3 I go Chalice@2 to prevent Counterbalance, Tarmogoyf and Counterspell get the better of me. But I forgot he also runs Trinket Mages. And Engineered Explosives. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Big mistake. He goes turn 3, Trinket Mage, EE, with a big grin on his face. He knows I'm fucked. But he didn't play his Engineered Explosives yet. I don't know why, and that's his playfail. I topdeck another Chalice of the Void and drop it with X=0. In your face Engineered Explosives! :) We are both unable to do something for a few turns. I draw another Chalice of the Void and decide to lock him out. Chalice@3. My playset of Chalices glistenes on the table as I know he has no winconditions anymore. Or so I thought. Jace, the Mind Sculptor hits the table on the other side. Combined with a couple of Force of Wills, he eventually reaches 12 loyalty and uses his ultimate on me. I am decked. Lost game 2, lost match 1. But in style :wink:

Match2: Another guy I know playing UWB Control with Jittes and Bitterblossoms and stuff.
I don't remember mutch of this match-up, other than that I had to mull 4 times in 2 games and he had alot of discard, so we'll just skip this match. Nothing to see here, move along.

I'm at 0-2 and off to an awful bad start, but I'm determined to save the honor of Faerie Stompy! I start drinking beer at this point, because, you know, at 0-2, you might as well competely enjoy yourself.

Match 3: random local with crappy elves.dec
Game 1: He surprizes me with the strange deck he has, and am caught completely off-guard when a Might of Oaks on a little Elf takes down my Serendib Efreet. Glen Elendra Archmage just sat there doing nothing. Why? I was so completely flabbergasted by the big fat squirl that I forgot I could counter it! So I lose game 1. Sucks. And by this time I'm also at my fourth beer... Sideboarding:
-1 Sigil of Distinction, -1 Pithing Needle, -4 Chalice of the Void (it obviously had a crazy curve), +2 Control Magic, +3 Submerge, +1 Sword of Fire and Ice.
Games 2 and 3: I totally pwn his socks off. He didn't see the submerges coming, and this time, Glen Elendra did her job well holding a Nissa Revane off. Crazy random Elf decks.

So, 1-2 now. Start the redemption! More beers!

Match 4: guy I know playing Madness Survival Reanimate all-in-one!
Game 1: He goes all-in for a turn 2 Iona, but I have Force of Will. I win.
Game 2: He wants to go with the Survival-route now, abusing Rootwalla's and Bloodghasts. Pretty nice, but not if I counter the Survival and have a Tormod's Crypt to spare while banging face with a turn 1 Drake. I win.

2-2, that's more like it!

Match 5: random guy playing ANT.
The guy is random. He played ANT. I win

3-2, now we're getting somewhere...

Final round, match 6: random guy playing Soldiers.
The guy is random. He played Soldiers. I beat face with Chalice@1 and big flying creatures. I win.

So I ended the tournament at 4-2 and because of bad resistance I end up 9th (out of 29). Still, I take home a nice DCI Stifle. Crazy prizesupport: the judge apparently wanted to dump all the goodies he got from GP:Madrid. I won't complain :wink:.

All-in-all it's an awesome deck. I might pick it up for larger tournaments in the future. Maindeck Glen Elendra Archmage is solid gold. The complete lack of Pestermites was MVP all day. Apparently drinking beer is savage tech too. Awesome.

Aleksandr
04-12-2010, 03:07 AM
You're my hero.

moug
04-14-2010, 08:03 AM
When Esp is amazing, he's amazing, but when he sucks, boy does he suck. !

I am looking at what's coming in ROE, and i finally find Prophetic Prism. Can't this card be the card to help FS to get easyer UU and make ESP better ?

Prophetic Prism
Artifact (Common) 2
When Prophetic Prism enters the battlefield, draw a card.
1,T : Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

gone testing ;)

Skeggi
04-14-2010, 08:24 AM
If you want to play Esperzoa it means you'll have to run a more artifact heavy deck. Chances are Chrome Mox or even Force of Will will have to make way. I'm not sure if that's a good thing. You'll probably end up more towards Deep Blue (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12129-[Deck]-Deep-Blue-%28Affinity-x-Fairy-Stompy-s-Lovechild%29).

Djinn
04-14-2010, 05:18 PM
You'll notice there are no Pestermites or Cloud of Faeries. They always proved very disappointing in testing. They have been replaced with maindeck Glen Elendra Archmage.

I wonder how you efficiently play Glen Elendra Archmage without the acceleration provided by Cloud of Faeries. I also wonder why the maindeck Control Magic over Sower of Temptation (it's a beater if opp doesn't play any dude).

Prophetic Prism is just another Elsewhere Flask, eventually could be better but you need 2 lands + City of Traitors/Ancient Tomb to cast 2UU, and you could do just the same with Elsewhere Flask, so I don't think it's even worth considering (and God knows FS doesn't want to run the 8 of them)

Skeggi
04-15-2010, 02:26 AM
I wonder how you efficiently play Glen Elendra Archmage without the acceleration provided by Cloud of Faeries. I also wonder why the maindeck Control Magic over Sower of Temptation (it's a beater if opp doesn't play any dude).

The Glen Elendra Archmage can consistantly hit the table, but often I have no untapped Island for her to be immediately effective. I try to play her when there's a Chalice@1 already on the table. Usually when she hits and she stays until I untap, she either seals the deal, gets stolen by Sower of Temptation or takes 1 removal spell and counters a must-counter.

The reason I ran 1 Control Magic instead of a fourth Sower of Temptation is the reason anyone can come up with: Control Magic is harder to remove. Perhaps a fourth Sower is better, I'm not sure, but so far the 1-of Control Magic hasn't let me down. I haven't had the situation yet where I needed Control Magic to be a Sower (although it's not hard to imagine what kind of situation that would be), but I did have a few occurences where Control Magic was better than Sower: the situation where you have no Chalice@1. Ofcourse I did have situations where Sower would have been slightly better than Control Magic because it's an extra 2 damage every turn, but usually that doesn't matter alot.

Remember: Control Magic can be a dead card against a number of archetypes, but we also still run Chrome Mox and Force of Will. It's never really dead. Besides, Glen Elendra Archmage is totally awesome against these decks, and there are three of her.

dlg
04-15-2010, 06:00 AM
Glen Elendra is great, especially with Sword of Light and Shadow^^

We should still think of Spellstutter Sprite (even if we drop Cloud of Faeries) - even Merfolk is trying to play them! This card is just too strong to ignore it and we need more control-creatures.

Eldariel
04-20-2010, 08:55 PM
Quick report time from the Salvation Tourney:

FS Experimental
// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
10 [UNH] Island

// Creatures
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [P2] Sea Drake
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
2 [LRW] Mulldrifter
2 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [ALA] Sigil of Distinction
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [MM] Misdirection
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 1 [US] Hibernation
SB: 3 [NE] Submerge
SB: 2 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress

Was just testing out a ton of stuff hence the random numbers here and there. Will continue doing so. The tourney was way short so this report will be, as well:

R1 Poppelseed with Mono-B Tortured Existence

It basically uses Nightmares and the like with Tortured Existence to create loops and permanent RFG and so on. The Achilles Heel is that it's pretty slow. So I mostly blaze through him.

G1 I just drop Efreet and Drake and while he kills Drake with Shriekmaw, Efreet goes all the way. Got Duressed at the start.

G2 I get Efreet and Sower to force sac on his Carrion Feeder and that buys me enough time to beat it up.

R2 Dyne with Canadian Thresh

G1 I have Chalice at 1 on the play and the game is pretty much over. I get Glen Elendra Archmage out that dies to two Fire/Ices, then SEfreet that gets Forced but then I land Chalice at 2 and eventually draw something to kill him. He makes a smart move of not showing me green lands tho, sticking to two Volcanics making me think it's UR Fish or something random, and sideboarding to all hell.

G2 I lose to early Goyf after my Drake got FoWed and Trinket burned. Trygon Predator joins in and an Efreet lands all too late, forcing a block. He plays Goose and that's game.

G3 I sideboard the anti-green stuff and get Jitte+Efreet early. It gets Fired and Bolted out though, after an Ice. I play Sower on an empty board, he lands Trygon. I Jitte up my Sower & play Drake and Sower & Trygon trade. He has EE at 3, but I have EE at 0 to blow his up. He plays Mongoose, takes 6 to 8, swinging me to 3. He Grips my Jitte (with few counters on it; I had anticipated it tho and been using them to gain some life and deal some extra here and there) while I drop a Sower to chump his Mongoose (my Tombs had been cutting to my health so the race was hard) or swing for the win.

I try for a second Jitte which he FoWs, leaving me with exactly enough to drop Sigil of Distinction for 2; FoW puts him at 7 and Sower + Drake with Sigil finish it. I'm one turn from death myself. We go through all the permutations and figure that no matter how he would've played it, as long as I played correctly I'd win. It was a bit nervewracking to know that a Bolt would be the end of me, but he only had Fire that he had pitched to FoW (but as I said, we went through the permutations and it wouldn't have been enough anyways; if I don't win that turn, Sower blocks and I'll win next turn without fail).

R3 Archmage with Reanimator

G1 I keep a hand involving two double lands, GEA, Jitte, some Islands. He goes first and drops UG Sea; I immediately put him on Storm. My Tomb -> Jitte eats a Daze and the gig is up; it's Reanimator. Good news is that I know what he's playing. Bad news is that my hand is atrocious for the match-up as I have no early threats and no ways of dealing with Iona. He Brainstorms and Careful Studies Iona to grave. Great. However, he hasn't seen any colors from me. I have Sower and Glen Elendra Archmage in hand. So, I make a plan: I'll play City and hope he names the wrong color.

Then I'll take 7 next turn as I play GEA to hopefully make him waste his counters. Finally, the turn before he'd have me, I'll Sower the Iona. And surprise, surprise, that's exactly what happens. He put me on some semi-stax pile or angel stompy or something of the like and names white! Perhaps he believes he has nothing to fear from the other colors. I drop GEA and he Dazes not realizing I have 1 floating from City, so I pay. He Forces pitching Force! Seems good. I take the hit, drop Island and Sower his Iona. He's a bit bemused and I quickly end it with a couple of swings from my team. Phew?

G2 is more mundane; I get Duressed for Chalice with Sower and company in hand; he Entombs twice for whatever reason. He Careful Studies a couple of times, looking for a reanimation spell. Then I just draw Tormod's Crypt while beating with Sea Drake and it's over. Meh.

R4 ID

R5 ID

Top 8 - theintangiblefatman with RGw Aggro Loam

G1 I keep a stupid hand on the play involving two Islands, Chalices and dudes. I die horribly as the "land" I topdeck is a Shoreline Ranger (first time that happened, but given the hand is a clear mulligan anyways, that doesn't really matter) leaving me at one Serendib to his 8/8 Crusher, Knight of Reliquary and Progenitus.

G2 starts well with turn 1 Relic of Proge, turn 2 Chalice at 1, turn 3 Sower on his Crusher. Of course, he has the Seismic Assault. Good news is that with Crusher and Relic, he won't draw any more gas for it. I get beat a couple of times until I'm forced to expend the Submerge in my hand. I do eventually draw Serendib Efreet which I drop, equipping SoFI. His Crusher still comes in and he drops another one. I have Force, but Forcing it would place me at 2 after his swing, 1 after upkeep while I need two swings to win so I decline. This is the only way I can make it happen; this leaves me a Sower as an out. And that's exactly what I draw. One block later, his Crushers are on the wrong team and my airforce ties it at 1-1.

G3 I start with Relic -> Chalice -> SoFI after a mull. Fine otherwise except I have no creature. I do have Submerge tho so I figure it's fine. I also see Hibernation. Then, of course, he has two Countryside Crushers and Seismic Assault. I'm still in a position where a creature at any point wins the game, but all I draw are Cities and Tombs, which is doubly annoying since he has only drawn his live cards with my board blanking basically everything else. So...I die a horrible death after the Crusher reveals 3 lands the turn after I Submerge it, and my Serendib is on the top of the library. I do hardcast FoW on his Crusher, but that's hardly anything to party about.


So...yeah, I did like the SB cards, but I just played shitty enough in the Top 8 that I managed to knock myself out of contention in a relatively good match-up. Forces would've been nice. Also, it's funny how I drew my singleton Chalice G3 and one of the two G2. I guess they just like me. At any rate, Hibernation woulda saved me if he drew literally anything but infinite crushers. Can't have that tho. I was really missing Blue Elemental Blasts there.

Meh, gotta test more with the random cards; didn't actually draw enough Trinkets to deduct whether the Relic is worth it and the Misdirection just never showed up. Still, I like the build and would've had a shot to win if I didn't suck at Magic.

DuxDucis
04-21-2010, 02:16 AM
How did you like Glen Elendra Archmage in the main? Did you ever miss Pestermite?

I've been using/testing Submerge lately, and I really like having it in the board. I can see the benefit of Hibernation in some situations.

Llawan, Cephalid Empress is in for the Merfolk matchup I presume?

Relic of Progenitus while interesting doesn't really seem to do much more than Tormod's Crypt other than make Chalice decisions more complicated than they should be. What benefit did you see to testing it in the main?

Sorry for picking your brain but thanks for the report.

Skeggi
04-21-2010, 03:02 AM
Congratulations on the result Eldariel. Nice to see you also kicked the Pestermites out and did well. Wouldn't you rather have a third GEA? I really liked mine. How was the maindeck 1-of Misdirection? Do you run enough blue for 4 FoW and 1 Misdirection? And are you sure about Relic of Progenitus? That card has been nothing but trouble for me; running it maindeck seems like an even bigger mistake.

Nice job game 1 against Reanimator by the way, well done :smile:. However, why did you play a Chalice@1 against Aggro Loam? They usually make that play themselves. On the other hand, Chalice@2 against Aggro Loam is very good, it hits Life from the Loam, Tarmogoyf, (Dark Confidant in the RGB version) and Burning Wish. Because it hits Life from the Loam, they need to get rid of it. Because it hits Burning Wish, it's hard to find something to get rid of it :smile:

@DuxDucis: Llawan also bounces Progenitus.

Eldariel
04-21-2010, 11:38 AM
Congratulations on the result Eldariel. Nice to see you also kicked the Pestermites out and did well. Wouldn't you rather have a third GEA? I really liked mine. How was the maindeck 1-of Misdirection? Do you run enough blue for 4 FoW and 1 Misdirection? And are you sure about Relic of Progenitus? That card has been nothing but trouble for me; running it maindeck seems like an even bigger mistake.

No, I'm definitely not sure. Relic was good few times (excellent against Aggro Loam making his Terravores and Goyfs mostly dead and yeah), but mostly it's annoying. And yeah, GEA actually came into play in the most surprising capacity of blocker with Persist quite a bit.


Nice job game 1 against Reanimator by the way, well done :smile:. However, why did you play a Chalice@1 against Aggro Loam? They usually make that play themselves. On the other hand, Chalice@2 against Aggro Loam is very good, it hits Life from the Loam, Tarmogoyf, (Dark Confidant in the RGB version) and Burning Wish. Because it hits Life from the Loam, they need to get rid of it. Because it hits Burning Wish, it's hard to find something to get rid of it :smile:

It was an unconventional build; in Top 8, we saw each others' decklists. He didn't have Burning Wish at all, and ran 4 Birds of Paradise & StP. He also ran Natural Order. I figured cutting BoPs should help him not resolve NO, and cutting StP removes his only removal spell meaning I should just be able to equip a guy and win. I wouldn't advocate that play against traditional Aggro Loam, but when I have perfect information, it works.



How did you like Glen Elendra Archmage in the main? Did you ever miss Pestermite?

Well, covered above but yeah, I woulda liked 'Mites. Mostly, I think I had few creatures too few. That's the price for making room to try few spells.



I've been using/testing Submerge lately, and I really like having it in the board. I can see the benefit of Hibernation in some situations.

Llawan, Cephalid Empress is in for the Merfolk matchup I presume?

Mostly, Hibernation/Llawan were Progebounce, especially against NO Bant, with auxillary beneficial effects in other MUs. Worth noting that it doesn't bounce Countryside Crusher though.


Relic of Progenitus while interesting doesn't really seem to do much more than Tormod's Crypt other than make Chalice decisions more complicated than they should be. What benefit did you see to testing it in the main?

It cantrips so it's never dead except with Chalice at 1 (which, admittedly, sucks) and it hits a wider variety of archetypes as it wipes out Terravores and drops Tarmos into 0/1s too in addition to hosing grave strategies.


As I said, I was mostly testing stuff; the list contains many things I wouldn't bring to a big tournament, like too low creature count and e.g. MD Misds, but I really wanted a chance to see if the miser's copies are worth it.

Skeggi
04-22-2010, 02:49 AM
Mostly, Hibernation/Llawan were Progebounce, especially against NO Bant, with auxillary beneficial effects in other MUs. Worth noting that it doesn't bounce Countryside Crusher though.
Have you ever tried Wash Out? It can't replace Llawan, but might be good in the spot of Hibernation.

Skeggi
04-26-2010, 02:51 AM
Yesterday, I played this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16742-[Deck]-Faerie-Stompy&p=446454&viewfull=1#post446454) list at a small 29-player tournament. Here is how it went:

Round 1: Enchantress.
Game 1: I'm on the play. I have no idea what he played, but I was able to power out a Chalice@1 on turn 1. So I just went ahead and did that. He throws down a forest, I still have no idea what he was playing. I had the option to throw down a Chalice@2 or a Sea Drake on turn 2. Not knowing what he was playing, I thought Drake would be the safer option. He throws down Argothian Enchantress in his turn. Crap. I so wished I played that Chalice@2 now. I swing a few turns, but he has an Oblivion Ring for my Chalice@1 and for my Sea Drake, so it quickly ends.
Game 2: I'm not sure how I sided, but it involved getting rid of the maindeck Control Magic and Pithing Needle and grabbing the Engineered Explosives and Tormod's Crypt. Didn't help though, because even though I could throw out Chalices quick, I did not have an extra blue card to support the FoW to counter that damn Oblivion Ring. After a long game, he establishes and wins. Bah.
0-1

Round 2: ANT.
Game 1: I was able to do a quick meta scan at the end of round 1 so I knew I was playing ANT. I win the die roll. Again. The poor guy doesn't know what he's playing, but I knew he was up for a nasty surprise. Turn 1: Chalice@1. His lip trembles a bit and he sighs. He fetches for an Island and passes the turn. Turn 2: Chalice@2. He cries, scoops, game 2.
Game 2: I'm not exactly sure what happened, I was beating him down with a Serendib Efreet I recall, he was at 12 when he casts a Mystical Tutor in my turn. I have a FoW but decide to let it go. He searches for Brainstorm. In his turn, he uses Brainstorm. After that, he drops Petal, and casts Dark Ritual. Having bluffed I have no FoW, I decide to let it resolve. Duress. Fuck. Dumb. Should have countered that Dark Ritual. Ah well, let's see how it goes: LED, LED, Infernal Tutor, Cast Ad Nauseam with B floating... uh-oh. He then flips: Cabal Ritual (10), Mystical Tutor (9), Brainstorm (8), Land, Land, Orim's Chant (7), Ill-Gotten gains (3), Land, Krosan Grip. Kthxbye. Lucky me :wink:
1-1

Round 3: Faerie Stompy. Yeah, that's right, the mirror in a 29 player tournament.
Game 1: I knew this guy was playing Faerie Stompy and he knew I was, because when you play Faerie Stompy, you notice when someone else does. He plays a list with more equipment and Pestermites. I play an equipment-light list but I have Glen Elendra Archmages and Control Magic. I win game 1 by Control Magicing his 6/6 Trinket Mage with Sigil of Distinction.
Game 2: I power out a turn 1 Serendib Efreet which was equipped by turn 3 with a Sword of Light and Shadow. I also had Mulldrifters. I hear that's good. Even though he had a Sea Drake with an active Jitte, he couldn't keep up with my massive cardadvantage. I win.
2-1

Round 4: Landstill.
Game 1: It's quite a long game and it goes back and forth until I cast a Jitte when there's a Chalice@2. I casted the Jitte out an Ancient Tomb. Turns out this loss of 2 life lost me the game. Stupid. Dumb. Etcetera.
Game 2: I was able to land Glen Elendra Archmage. Twice. I win :wink:
Game 3: turn 1: Chalice@1, turn 2: Sea Drake, turn 3: equip Sea Drake with SoFI. Drakes from the sea with flaming swords which are also frozen at the same time cause destruction of Biblical proportions. Just the way God intended.
3-1

Round 5: UGR CounterTop, teammate, same guy I had to start round 1 against last tournament. We both know this is my worst match-up. Not because of CounterTop obviously, but because he has Engineered Explosives, Vedalken Shackles, Firespout and Jace. Bah.
Game 1: I lose to Vedalken Shackles x2.
Game 2: Serendib Efreet with Sword of Fire and Ice goes the distance.
Game 3: Serendib Efreet with Sword of Fire and Ice goes the distance. Nice.
4-1

I make the cut into top 4 and we decide to split. I was paired against a nice guy so we decided to play a game for fun. He plays Merfolk, I knew this. I open with the following hand: Force of Will, Sea Drake, Umezawa's Jitte, Sower of Temptation, Chalice of the Void, Ancient Tomb, Island, Island. A bit later in the game I also draw Control Magic. I love this deck :smile:

Eldariel
04-26-2010, 12:04 PM
Too bad about the enchantress; I've had good success dropping a beater and a Chalice at THREE on multiple occasions against the deck, though optimally you want Chalice at 2 and 3, of course. Provided you have Crypt/Force/GEA for their Replenishes (of which they usually only have a couple vs. you), you just win then. It's an interesting match-up and another one where experience does, in my experience (heh...), pay off a great deal.

And great job overall. Btw, if you can Chalice at 1 and 2, you generally should. The only decks that's not good against in the format are Dragon Stompy, Armageddon Stax and overall, Ancient Tomb-decks. All, and I mean ALL, green decks tend to rely on 2-drops, be they Survivals, Goyfs, Life from the Loams or, indeed, Argothian Enchantress and Sterling Grove. Or Qasali Pridemage or y'know. So...yeah, just for the future. This tends to stop all outs they have pre-board among other things. And it wrecks most decks, really. If opponent did not land a Mountain or a Plains, chances are those two are game. Like, Merfolk, Storm, Reanimator, most Thresh-builds, Zoo, Sui Black, etc. are all pretty fucked under double Chalice.

Skeggi
04-27-2010, 02:33 AM
if you can Chalice at 1 and 2, you generally should
So true. I found out the hard way. But so true :smile:. However, if I know a deck has Engineered Explosives I often drop the second Chalice@0.

Aleksandr
04-27-2010, 02:53 AM
Nice work. Once I get tired with my new Stax.petdeck, I will sleeve your build.

serendib
05-12-2010, 03:49 AM
hi, I'm new of the forum and I'm starting playing Faerie stompy. I've been a MUC player for years and years (morphling, Rainbow Efreet, b2b, propaganda...) and I wanted to try something new to change (even if the metagame for muc is comming very good as for as how I play it).
My first choice was faerie stompy because I like only beautiful creatures. not progenitals...

I really think the deck needs to be played because it has positive match ups in this metagame. (I'm talking about Europe)

I've tried testing two main different version of the deck.
- An old style one, running clouds, thirst for knowledge, 4 swords + 3 jitte
- A more modern one, with mulldrifter; sower; SoL&S...

I personally preferred the old style one. because of its speed and dirty triks Cloud of faeries - pestermite - thirst for knowledge allow.
and also because here in Italy the metagame is more or less the same as the breakdown of madrid but with more of goblins and merfolks.
Heaps of goblins... so very fast.

I took this deck sunday to a 75-player turnament:

4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
8 Island
1 Seat of the Synod

4 Serendib Efreet
4 sea frake
4 cloud of faeries
3 Trinket Mage
3 weatherseed faeries

4 Force of Will
3 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Rushing river

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle

side:
3 propaganda (to say hallo to aggros & ichorid)
2 Llawan, cephalid empress (vs merfolks, faeries UGr, bant and its rhox & progenitus)
2 submerge
3 hibernation (jeah, bant & progenitals)
3 misdirection (vs zoo and black based decks. misdirection on hymn to tourach is GG)
1 tormod
1 needle

It was the first time I was playing in a turnament fs. so I didn't expect me to do well.
I prefere pestermite to weatherseed faeries but I expected so many gobs, zoos and FIRE//ICE (very used in heaps of decks in italy) that I didn't want to risk to loose 2 creatures with 1 spell.
I did 4-3 winning vs merfolks, survival, elves, goblins
and lost against goblins, merfolks & bant.

I realised goblins and merfolks are quite good matchs for us, but I was new of the match and I made mistakes.
as for the decks I had, If I had a little more experience a could have made 6-1(bant).
because I consider good
match up aggro & combo.
skill-dependent the aggro-control match up.
bad mu vs control decks (but very few player play control nowadays)

Let's do some considerations on my version:
- I didn't like Rushing River. I'll take one out for a further land for sure.
than I have to decide what to put to substitute the second slot (probabely the 4° trinket mage)
- as for trinket, I chose to run just 3 because if the opponent goes first and I don't have both chalice and mox, I would play trinket on t2 and chalice on turn 3. and probabely it would be too late (opponent has already done 3 turns). Anyway I'll take the 4°back in.
- thirst for knowledge is awesome. I love it and I consider it >>>> mulldrifter (in my version, If a played SoL&S I would have run mull). my reasons are:
a) evoquing mulldrifter is sad (come on, 2 cards for 3 mana sorcery is quite sad and it's not even card quality)
b) playing mulldrifter with 5 mana is good. but I think I have something better to do with 5 mana. such as cloud + equip + 3 mana open for pestermite or thirst in the opponent turn (or play pestermite sorcery and even equip it)
c) is not that easy to have 5 mana if the opponent runs wasteland
d) thirst is superior in terms of drawing: they are both +2 cards in hand but thirst digs more and I don't like moxes in my hand smiling to me in an idiot way.
- I was running 21 mana sources, probabely I'll take one more in. but the casting cost 2UU is not easy anyway (reason why I was not running sower main or side)

Propaganda in the sideboard is god to me (yes I'm a muc player, but dropping one of them vs gobs of elves or merfolks means victory)
as misdirection.
I'm not sure on how to beat bant, what to side in and what to side out... only experience and losing will tell me... any idea?


To conclude I want to thank eldariel for having come to create a blue-aggro-agressive deck so much fun!
years & years and ago I had a random deck which runned if I remember the following cards

4 Zephid's Embrace
4 Unstable Mutation
4 force
4 miscalculation
2/3 serendib djinn + 4 efreet
3 man-o-war
4 rishadan ports
4 Saprazzan Skerry
some faerie conclave
3 masticore
4 flying man
4 Fleeting Image

your faerie stompy looks an evolution and an unswer of how to build my old deck in a modern and comptitive way. well done.

Is somebody playing FS in the old-classic way anymore. Wouldn't it be more competitive with all the aggros running around? hav you got any suggestion for me that I'm new?

maffe

Skeggi
05-12-2010, 04:54 AM
a) evoquing mulldrifter is sad (come on, 2 cards for 3 mana sorcery is quite sad and it's not even card quality)
I have to disagree. I regularly evoke my Mulldrifter, and that always nets me 1 extra card. When you play Thirst for Knowledge and you don't find an Artifact, or you don't want to discard the only Artifact you've found, it's significantly worse. Plus the fact that Mulldrifter can be a creature is the real bonus. Yes, there are better plays for 5 mana. But what if you need a creature now. You can't rely on your Thirst for Knowledge to find one of your Cloud of Faeries. Also, Sword of Light and Shadow on any creature, constantly returning Mulldrifter to evoke has also won me many games.

There are quite alot of things in your build I would do differently, but then again, that's why your build is old-school. I suggest you evolve with the meta.

perm
05-12-2010, 05:49 AM
Tangle Wire is bad in Legacy.

No.

Verbal warning for spam. Please include more content in your posts in the future. This doesn't add anything to the conversation at all. - Bardo

serendib
05-12-2010, 06:57 AM
When you play Thirst for Knowledge and you don't find an Artifact, or you don't want to discard the only Artifact you've found, it's significantly worse

There are quite alot of things in your build I would do differently, but then again, that's why your build is old-school. I suggest you evolve with the meta.

Few times happens to have problems in chosing what to discard. I'm running 16/17 artifact. (16/17 means 1 or 2 artifact lands. it depends on if I chose or not to bring Back to Basics in the sideboard). sometimes also jitte can be discarded because it is legendary. And ISTANT drawing is quite good as far as I run Force of Will and misdirection & hibrnation in the side. and they are better to find a sided-in card.

I don't think that the comparison between thirst & mulldrifter has any meaning not considering the style of playin the deck.
If the choice is for a more quick and light deck (old style) my choice is thirst + Pestermite/weatherseed faeries + jitte + clouds.
If I want some "Bombs" more like sower, do some recursions then I would play mull + SoL&S and maybe 23 mana sources. I agree.

So, your points should be according to the meta-choice weather a build better vs aggro or a meta better vs control/aggro control. (If I espect some, here comes b2b in the side)

I personally think that in this Metagame the best build is the more classic. I would agree with yours if there were landstill and control decks. But they are disappearing

I think the FS innovation is now going back to its aggressive goal and smash all the other aggro-decks and the combo decks. Just look at Djinn's list and result in day1 in madrid. (the only changes from the list I posted are the thirst slot that he filled with three 1X because he didn't feel he needed to draw) and the breakdown of the event: decks divided in:
zoo
merfolk
bant
ant
and the breakdown I see in Italy is the same.
I now your built is lightly better than mine against bant in the mid-game. but mine is better against aggro.. and I don't think anyway that the "recursion build" has chance against bant in g1 anyway (with no side). the only way is to beat them is speed. If you go to mid-late game they win I guess.

so, my thought is: let use the stongest build for smashing the good/lightly favorable decks with the main... and hard-sideboarding for the bad MUs instead of using an hybrid build.


Yes, there are better plays for 5 mana. But what if you need a creature now.

consider that with cloud I can play ancicipate a play of one turn. so I prevent the absence of a creature most times, while running sower & mull, you need to catch up the lack of a creature on your side because they are hard to cast. Let me guess: not as much wasteland in your meta as is mine?!" I allways get wasted in early game. I wonder If I needed 4 or 5 mana... my cloud are the glue of my build (and make daze sterile vs me).
think of this:
turn 1 chalice
turn 2 pestermite in opponent upkeep to tap his land
turn 3 cloud + equip + attched to pestermite and attack.
(and opponent has done notting because one (1/2) of his land is tapped and there is chalice. I made 4 drops and some damages and the opponent a brainstorm in his upkeep if he was lucky)
this play is much much better than the best one you can do (that I can do too):
t1: calice
t2: drake
t3: equip
because you opponent could do something. like tarmo. or qasali (talking again about bant) and 2 creatures >> 1 drake


I suggest you evolve with the meta. sorry. I didn't like this sentence too much...

Skeggi
05-12-2010, 07:20 AM
sorry. I didn't like this sentence too much...
Please excuse me, I did not want to come off as arrogant or blow your version off. Your version is a very legit version, which certainly has potential. However, I do not feel the same way about your version versus my version as you do: I see my version to be perfectly capable of handling Aggro as well. It's still hard against aggro, but judging from your tournament results, even the 3 maindeck Weatherseed Faeries weren't enought to save your Goblin match-up.



I did 4-3 winning vs merfolks, survival, elves, goblins
and lost against goblins, merfolks & bant.


You can always lose from Goblins, your build can, mine too. However, stuff like Sower of Temptation and Glen Elendra Archmage significantly increase your Bant match-up. That is, in combination with Chalice of the Void, and that's why I run 4 Trinket Mage. Common misconception is that you need a Chalice@1 asap. While this is a strong play, there are situations where you can afford to drop it later, but you do have to make sure it lands before you drop Sower or GEA.


Let me guess: not as much wasteland in your meta as is mine?!
Ofcourse Wasteland is a common staple in my meta. I have yet to find a meta where this isn't the case. However, most decks which run Wastelands are also very dependant on cmc1 spells. Guess who has the upper hand then. Also, I run two more Islands than you (I know, you're bringing up this number so I wasn't going to say anything).

Shai tan teh reaper
05-20-2010, 11:51 PM
I have been playing a Red splash version for quite sometime now but for the first time this just came up and I was not to sure the ruling.
If you play Sea Drake with 1 are 2 fetches as targets and then crack in response, how do these situations work?

Dr. DOOM
05-21-2010, 01:52 AM
I checked the rulings on Gatherer:

When the ability resolves, if one of the lands has become an illegal target (because it's no longer on the battlefield, for example), you return the other one to your hand. If both of the lands have become illegal targets, the ability is countered. This has no effect on Sea Drake.

So you can play Drake, target two fetch, sacrifice the fetchlands, the lands you fetch and the Drake stay in play.

Very interesting, thanks for the tip!

gmeroni
05-21-2010, 12:13 PM
Hey guys, i'm building this deck, but i need a seriously help...

//Lands
1 Seat of the Synod
9 Island
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

//Creatures
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Trinket Mage
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Drake
2 Sower of Temptation

//Spells
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
4 Chrome Mox
2 Psionic Blast

//Sideboard:
3 Propaganda
3 Winter orb
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Misdirection
3 Weatherseed Faeries
2 Hibernation

***************

//Creatures Type 1
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Trinket Mage
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Drake
2 Sower of Temptation

//Creatures Type 2
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Trinket Mage
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Drake
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Pestermite

//Sideboard, how can i put inside my sideboard Back to Basics?

Djinn
05-22-2010, 06:45 AM
@gmeroni: Just remove the Winter Orbs for the B2B

Also, never cut trinket mages down to 3. My personal piece of advice would be -4 mulldrifter +4 pestermite on Creatures Type 1 selection, but almost everyone around here agrees mulldrifter is good enough.

serendib
05-25-2010, 05:39 PM
@ djinn:
I like the aggro builds, with cloud & co. I saw that you were not using any draw engine card in madrid. I personally don't like mulldrifter but I prefere thirst for knowledge as far as I go for the aggro-old style build. but my question is: do ve really need a draw engine (a part from trinket mage & sword) ? that is to say, can we lose I turn tring to find something missing in our hand or should we replace e.g. thirst for a card we would seach for (e.g control magic or sower) ?

Black Mass
05-26-2010, 06:31 AM
Off course we need a drawengine, the card disadvantage we have caused bij both Force of will and Chrome mox can devastate your hand. The deck really needs a way to replenish the hand besides the SoFaI.

Thirst or, in my humble opinion even better, Mulldrifter can draw into Force of Will, Chalice's, ... Things that are quasi allways useful.

dlg
05-26-2010, 06:39 PM
I understand your opinion that we don't need a "draw option" because we spend one turn to cast and we get 1 card more. If we would play useful stuff in those slots we might be stronger but we need to test it.
Thirst for Knowledge was in the older builds the best possible draw: 2 U, 3 cards, instant, and discard something "useless" artifactial.
Mulldrifter fits more in our aggro-plan: We try to refit our control cards with creatures like Mulldrifter, Sower, Pestermite or Glen Elendra. If there would be a creature with the Challice ability ;)

In the actual lists are only 3 slots for drawspells. This number is enough and we shouldn't cut it. Mulldrifter was great with Swords of Light and Shadow but with the current Wasteland-hype it's hard to get 5 mana. I think we should go back to Thirst for Knowledge^^ other opinions?

Black Mass
05-27-2010, 06:23 AM
I don't get the fact that you guys put TfK over Drifter. I absolutely have no problem evoking Mulldrifter in the early game, because you have to play something right? The only thing we can flash in is Pestermite. I seldomly have open mana in the opponent's turn in the early game (or it would be to dodge daze) so why not evoke at sorcery speed?

You can put in the fact that TfK digs for three, that can be an issue, but TfK can only net you 2 cards max, just like Mulldrifter, but the drawback it has is very relevant to me, discarting moxen in a, as said, wasteland-hyped enveronment is not something I like to do.
Plus Mulldrifter leaves you lategame with 3 cards, a 2/2 flyer in play and 2 cards in hand.

gmeroni
05-27-2010, 05:33 PM
Update:

Muldrifter is good enough because i really need to draw cara, and i totally agree with BlackMass, Mulldrifter is better than TFK even in early game!...This is my latest list!

Deck: Faeris Stompy (http://deckstats.net/deck-154941-ff3b37ac4ec6afae5031e52b6cf47441-en.html)

//Lands
1x Seat of the Synod (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Seat+of+the+Synod)
9x Island (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Island)
4x City of Traitors (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=City+of+Traitors)
4x Ancient Tomb (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ancient+Tomb)

//Creatures
4x Cloud of Faeries (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Cloud+of+Faeries)
4x Trinket Mage (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Trinket+Mage)
4x Serendib Efreet (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Serendib+Efreet)
4x Mulldrifter (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mulldrifter)
4x Sea Drake (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sea+Drake)
2x Sower of Temptation (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sower+of+Temptation)

//Spells
2x Sword of Fire and Ice (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sword+of+Fire+and+Ice)
2x Sword of Light and Shadow (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sword+of+Light+and+Shadow)
2x Umezawa's Jitte (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Umezawa%27s+Jitte)
4x Chalice of the Void (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Chalice+of+the+Void)
4x Force of Will (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Force+of+Will)
4x Chrome Mox (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Chrome+Mox)
2x Psionic Blast (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Psionic+Blast)

//Sideboard
3x Propaganda (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Propaganda)
3x Back to basic (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Back+to+basic)
1x Tormod's Crypt (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Tormod%27s+Crypt)
3x Misdirection (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Misdirection)
3x Weatherseed Faeries (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Weatherseed+Faeries)
2x Hibernation (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Hibernation)

http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display Deck Statistics (http://deckstats.net/deck-154941-ff3b37ac4ec6afae5031e52b6cf47441-en.html)

P.s PsiconBlast saved my ass so many times!

Djinn
05-27-2010, 09:54 PM
gmeroni: throw some Engineered Explosives and Pithing Needle somewhere in the md/sb. Also, the addition of the 3rd jitte to the sideboard might be an interesting option (hate those red decks and the like). How is Hibernation working for you guys? I never tried it because I never felt we had to, but it seems a popular choice nowadays...

gmeroni
05-28-2010, 03:04 AM
gmeroni: throw some Engineered Explosives and Pithing Needle somewhere in the md/sb. Also, the addition of the 3rd jitte to the sideboard might be an interesting option (hate those red decks and the like). How is Hibernation working for you guys? I never tried it because I never felt we had to, but it seems a popular choice nowadays...

I've had in my hand so many time the UJ, but i've never used it because i've put the Cotv on 2!!...with Pneedle it will be' the same...Don't u think?

Nelis
05-28-2010, 03:18 AM
I've had in my hand so many time the UJ, but i've never used it because i've put the Cotv on 2!!...with Pneedle it will be' the same...Don't u think?

Do you need THAT many equipments?

gmeroni
05-28-2010, 04:42 AM
Do you need THAT many equipments?

Maybe jitte will be less, but the two sword are really important because they gave mi life,card and power....i don't think that 6 equip are too much in this deck....

If i'll have a Jitte in the early game i'll play immediatly and only after i'll play cotv at 2...isn't perfect game play?...

Skub
06-05-2010, 06:06 PM
@Eldariel

Is the list in the opening post still up to date? I am thinking about giving FS a spin and I am looking for a list with which I can start.

Eldariel
06-06-2010, 07:17 AM
@Eldariel

Is the list in the opening post still up to date? I am thinking about giving FS a spin and I am looking for a list with which I can start.

It should get you started fine. It's rather recent, though I've experimented with other stuff since. As it stands, might want to gear the SB more for the meta, but the MD should be fine. Glen Elendra Archmage deserves consideration though.

gmeroni
06-06-2010, 11:58 AM
It should get you started fine. It's rather recent, though I've experimented with other stuff since. As it stands, might want to gear the SB more for the meta, but the MD should be fine. Glen Elendra Archmage deserves consideration though.

What can i keep out for glen?...i wanna put it in, but i dont know how!

Eldariel
06-06-2010, 01:47 PM
What can i keep out for glen?...i wanna put it in, but i dont know how!

Well, Mulldrifter is a similar longterm card so that's one to consider. Equipment is always an option, and the 'Mite-slot is open. Sower is somewhat a metagame choice too.

gmeroni
06-06-2010, 02:31 PM
Well, Mulldrifter is a similar longterm card so that's one to consider. Equipment is always an option, and the 'Mite-slot is open. Sower is somewhat a metagame choice too.

Because right now it's a bit different my deck....this is the last version

//Lands
1 Seat of the Synod
9 Island
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

//Creatures
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Trinket Mage
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Drake


//Spells
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will
4 Chrome Mox
2 Psionic Blast
2 Rushing River

I put 2 psicon and 2 river because there is some fucking cards, like enchantment & creatures, that can be very very problematic!

serendib
06-07-2010, 06:34 AM
yesterday I took part to a 60-people turnament and didn't do well (3-3). but I wanted to share with you my considerations anyway.
metagame: goblins, merfolks, faeries ugr, black based decks, No bant (with countertop) mostly, some zoo, some canadian.

list I played

22 mana sources with Seat of the Synod (mox+tomb+city+island+synod)

4 cloud of faeries
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
3 trinket mage
3 weatherseed faeries

4 force fo will
3 thirst for knowledge

4 chalice of the void
4 Sword of fire and Ice
3 Uwezawa's jitte
1 Basilisk Collar
1 pithing needle

side:
4 propaganda
2 misdirection
3 sower of temptation
1 tormod
1 needle
1 masticore
3 hibernation

matches:

Turn1 team america (2-0)
t1: I smash him with creatures (turn 2 cloud of faeries + jitte + equip. so that he couldn't play daze, then serendib, then drake) in a really fast way. (he made me 2 sinkhole + 2 wasteland... I wonder if I wasn't running cloud...)
t2: same thing. The winning play: Misdirection of hymn to tourach.

Turn2 Merfolk (0-2)
You know what happens when you open with no mana, then mulligan to 6, then no mana, then mulligan to 5 for just 1 island and no land topdeck... same thing for both games. I wasn't happy because it was favorable match up.

Turn3: Red Death (balck based deck with 4 hymn to tourach 4 Blightning some duress, some thoughtsize 4 bolts, 4 confidant, some arena, some hypnotic spcter, some tombstalker... ) (2-0)
t1: I play some creatures and he all bots me, untill I play a weatherseed faeries + jitte for the win (he also made me some discards and drwing with confidant)
t2: misdirection on Blightning + pro-red creature for the win

Turn4: BG Dark depth with mox diamond (1-2)
he starts: land+mox(land)+tourach. I play land-pass. He makes a second tourach. I play land-pass (nearly notting in my hand left). he plays toughtsize + wasteland my tomb. result: I have an island in play and no cards in hand. LOL
t2: I start angry: pithing needle on vampire hexmage; then Chalice @ 2, then serendib, then double drake for the win.
t3: mulligan to 5 thanks to no lands. no lands even then, lose. I was quite pissed off because I wanted to win that game.
(side: -1 equip -3 pro-red + 2 midD + 2 Sower. the reason why just 2 sower in is that he plays 8 hate vs my lands )

turn5: natural order + counter-top Bant (2-0)
t1: I smash him even if he resolves 2 qasali (on destroyed chalice and one sword) and 2 swords to plowshares. I'm too fast.
t2: I take out 3 weatherseed faeries, the collar and the 3 thirsts for + 3 sower + 1 misdirection + 3 hibernation. The reason Why I play sower in spite of control magic in the side is because opponents side in hate vs artifacta/enchantments more than creatures.
same as t1. I play creatures + artifacts and he destrys everything with qasalis and swords. then he plays balance.
I play cloud and he shows natural order with balance.
He now have: 4 mana on field + Noble Hierarch + 3 cards in hand (one is natural order)
I have: tomb+island+cloud+SoF&I on field. In my hand force+misd+2sower+mox+hibenation
I play mox pithing force (little bluff). he smiles (I wanted to have 4 mana cause of daze and being able to play sower. I imaginated force + daze in his hand wich was the worse situation). I pass. He plays natural order and progenitus. I say ok. EOT: hibernation. he says ok. (so no force to misdirect)
then I won with sower in play and sower + misd in hand + a drawed blue pitch to be sure.

turn6: faeries UGR (0-2)
notting to say. too strong opponent, too difficult match up:
t1: me chalice @ 1; he forces
me: serendib: he forces
me: drake; he bolts
he standstill. I lose
same in t2 for the first turns. then I succeeded in resolving a weatherseed faeries + jitte but it was not sufficient as far as he plays E.E. @ 2 and wasted me twice.

MY analysis of my games is the following:
I lost just one game I played (faeries). I won the 3 games I played (Team america, bant, red death). I didn't play 2 games cause of too much mulligan for mana (and I don't play casting cost 4/5 spells) and they weren't bad match ups (vs dark depth just need or misD, because of tourach and friends... or needle or chalice @ 2). Bad luck for mulligans. and good play vs the won matchs. maybe winning vs bant and team america balances the bad luck of mulligans !!??
I expected to lose 1/7% games because of mullingans. but this time they were too much...

during the games I was making that thoughts while I was dopping my spells:
weatherseed faeries: "And if she was a sower/pestermite?". MY unswer was every time weatherseed faeries because remouvals now in Italy are mostly red (bolts, helix, fire//ice, lavamancer, firespout...). StP are just 4X in decks and go under chalice @ 1.
thirst for knowledge: "And if it was mulldrifter?". Never had 5 mana to cast if. wasteland and co. are very popular here.
Cloud of faeries allways allowed me to go around dazes and do multiple drops. I can't imagine playing without them.
Minsdirection: "and if it was Glen?". I could have not misdirect a hymn to tourach or diabolic edict for the win.

In that metagame I see the old style build as more efficient and the weatherseed faeries a good choice for the day.
(top8 was: 1 new horizon, 2 goblins, 1 merfolk, 1 elves, 2 faeries ugr)
as for the side I will probabely increase to 3X misdirection and maybe find room for back to basics.

I know you mostly play the new version with mulldrifter, glen, sower. I tried it and it works really good. but I think going back to the oldish version is better in Italy. so, my question is: how is you breakdown of the turnaments?
...so that I can understand if you quite all play the new version in my same matagame or if that's because your metagame is more slow.

I agree with eldariel: FS is still good in the metagame bacause control decks are less now. If we start in an explosive way we can deal with nearly everyone. we just need to play it again. (even bant is a problem, we need perfect plays against him).

... sorry for the long post...

DuxDucis
06-07-2010, 09:33 AM
Everyone gets bitten by the mulligan bug from time to time, its the nature of the deck. I always find I mulligan more playing FS than with other decks.

Weatherseed Faeries just doesn't do enough for me. Sure pro red is great, but it doesn't have the same versatility as Pestermite. Where I play red is not as popular as it seems for you. If Pestermite doesn't stick around it's fine, you can often create a more favourable combat situation or tap down a vital piece of the opponents board.

You have to stop looking at Mulldrifter as just a five drop. Late game if you happen to have 5 mana and you top deck it you get two more cards and a 2/2 flyer. If you've played out your hand early you curve right into a drawing two cards. In your deck with Cloud of Faeries you would think you could use Mulldrifter quite easily?

I love Misdirection against certain decks as well. I'm not sure Misdirection and Glen Elendra Archmage are competing for the same slot. I feel Glen Elendra Archmage gives you another tool to use against control or combo decks. Misdirection isn't as good against those decks.

You have to tweak your deck to the expected meta in your area, I don't think anyone will hold that against you. However, that doesn't mean that your particular build is going to succeeded everywhere.

hjalte
06-08-2010, 03:49 PM
I have always liked Aven Mindcensor, and how it shuts off a great bunch of strategies (NO, Survival, Reanimator to some extent, and fetchlands). But for it to be most effective, it has to powered out in the early game, which is quite difficult in legacy. So my first thought was to make a Faerie Stompy variant which splashed white, and used Mindcensor.

The following list is quite untested, but I will meet up with some guys during the weekend to test it out, and I wanted some feedback, whether you think this will work at all or if you have some suggestions for testing. (Also, if you think this will be significantly worse than a mono-U list, just say so :P)

So first my suggested list:

//mana - 26
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 island
1 plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Mox diamond

//Dudes - 22
4 Aven Mindcensor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Mulldrifter
3 Serendib Efreet

//Stuff - 12
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of fire and ice
1 Sword of light and shadow
1 Sigil of distinction

Blue count: 19
This is obviously quite low. But it will probably be hard to up this further, without removing the splash. I guess this is the price for splashing.

I would like to play Glen Elendra Archmage instead of Serendib Efreet, as I like how it hoses combo and control to a very great degree, I'm just afraid it will remove a lot of the aggressiveness of the deck, and it might just be because I usually plays control or aggro-control with emphasis on the control part.


I haven't given a sideboard any thoughts yet. I'll look into that if this works out at all...

Arrg
06-14-2010, 08:04 AM
I've decided that this is going to be the first Legacy deck I buy. It looks damn fun and it has FoW which sets me up for feature success. How's this for an initial MD?

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Island
4 Chrome Mox
1 Shoreline Ranger

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Sower of Temptation
4 Mulldrifter
2 Pestermite

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte

DuxDucis
06-14-2010, 08:18 AM
I don't think Basilik Collar is good enough. Plus it handcuffs you when you want to set Chalice at 1. The same goes for Relic of Progenitus.

Consider Sigil of Distinction and Tormod's Crypt

Other than that you've got a pretty good start...

Arrg
06-14-2010, 12:41 PM
I don't think Basilik Collar is good enough. Plus it handcuffs you when you want to set Chalice at 1. The same goes for Relic of Progenitus.

Consider Sigil of Distinction and Tormod's Crypt

Other than that you've got a pretty good start...

Makes sense, CotV seems to be a pretty key point to the success of the deck. How do you deal with a resolved Iona set to blue? Obviously in an ideal world you Tormod Crypt/FoW her out of existence but what happens when she hits?

lebarion
06-14-2010, 01:31 PM
How do you deal with a resolved Iona set to blue? Obviously in an ideal world you Tormod Crypt/FoW her out of existence but what happens when she hits?

Besides FoW and Trinket Mage for Tormod's, you can hope to have a creature in play and draw a Swords of Light and Shadow. If you have enough mana, a Sigil also do the job, or two Sword of Fire and Ice.

Mystical_Jackass
06-29-2010, 12:29 PM
Hey guys. I had an idea, and I sorta thought of this deck. I was thinking, maybe the new M11 creature could work in this deck as a beater and fill in for CA...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Conundrum Sphinx :2::u::u:
Creature - Sphinx
Flying
4/4

Whenever Conundrum Sphinx attacks, each player names a card. Then each player reveals the top card of his or her library. If the card a player revealed is the card he or she named, that player puts that card into his or her hand. If it's not, that player puts it on the bottom of his or her library.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My thought was with something like...

2 Sphinx
4 Trinket Mage
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives

...setup, you could generate some pretty good card draw if you can stick a SDT. Chalice 1 would be the biggest obstacle.. but at it's worst it's 4 for a 4/4 flyer, which if you attack gives the potential to cycle through to get the card you're looking for the situation next turn.. obviously vs countertop this wouldn't be ideal, but I can think of a lot of matchups it seems like it'd be great card draw, thoughts?

Honoluluicecaps
07-06-2010, 11:28 AM
So I hate to bring this deck back to page 1 without offering any insight of my own, but with the possible metagame shift following the bannings, is Faerie Stompy worth picking up? My local shop has Sea Drakes for sale at 20 a piece (my guess is because no one was biting on the previous 40 dollar price tag) and I'm trying to figure out if FS will be worth the investment...

Specifically, how good is our zoo matchup, since that's the only one that worries me?

serendib
07-07-2010, 03:33 AM
I've used faerie stompy to a 2 of turnaments in the last mounth here in Italy and I would like to share my match and building with you. the first one was a 180 person one (I got 50th), the second was much smaller (30 players, finished 7°).
the maindeck I was running were the same, with some changes in the sideboard:

1 sede del sinodo
9 island
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 chrome mox

4 cloud of faeries
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
3 trinket mage
3 weatherseed faeries

4 force of will
3 thirst for knowledge
4 chalice of the void
4 sword of fire and ice
4 jitte
1 pithing needle

side:
3 misdirection
3 sower of temptation
3 propaganda (substituted by 3 aura flux in the second turnament because there were heaps of enchantress decks)
1 tormod's crypt
1 pithing needle (-1, +1 Llawan)
1 Llawan, cephalid empress
3 hibernation

I can't really remember all the matchs of the first turnaments, but the pairings and the winning plays. unfortunately I lost the last 4 games, after having won the first 4 all by 2-0...

T1: faeries UGr 2-0 (I don't know if you call that deck the same as me. It runned lavamancer, bolts, wasteland+mishra+standstill, goyf and the faerie who counters as the core of the deck)
g1) winning play: t2 cloud of faeries + jitte, t3 weatherseed faeries...
g2) serendib + drake + jitte. winning card: misdirection of lighning bolt on the opponent's face

T2: faeries UGr 2-0. same game. won the first match thanks to very fast creatures and equipments, g2 won again thanks to misdirection of bolt on his lavamancer.

T3: merfolk 2-0. drake + jitte both the games.
side: -1 chalice + 1 needle - 1 weatherseed faeries + 1 Llawan - 3 thirst + 3 propaganda. I wanted him to counter propaganda, so that I could play creatures + equipments free and beat him on speed. I didn't sideboard sower because I was afraid not to be able to cast it because of the 2 wasteland he made me in g1.
I met Coralhelm Commander for the first time. he is not friendly when he becomes 4/4 flyer. so I had 2 needles in g2: one for him and one for vial.

T4: merfolk again 2-0.... I'm faster. 8 equipments and the cloud of faeries are good against aggro.
Now I was quite happy because my statistics were 100% of winning

T5: Mono-brown stax. 0-2
g1) I started extremely aggressive with serendib + sword on turn 1&2. but he played Ensnaring Bridge and I stopped attacking. I would have needed jitte there. then he played several bombs like crucible + smokestack while I attack him with cloud and pro-red. then charged smokestack to 3 and in 3 turns he reset my board.
g) he played chalice 0 + maze of ith (i play trinket + needle on him), then tangle wire, then tabernacle.
I think that's a quite impossible match

T6: enchantress 0-2
g1) he succeeded in stoppiing me that I started mox-tomb-drake in t1, and city-sword-swing on t2 and trinket + needle calling sterling grove on t3 ... thanks to his topdecking both aura of silence and oblivion ring... than he played heaps of stuff...
g2) can't remember...

T7: team america 1-2
opening hand (after my opponent shuffle me the deck in a strange way and looking closely at it) 4 ancient tomb + 3 island !!! yeah. people took photos of my hand. everyone laughing in the room. me too.
mulligan to 6...
mulligan to 5... notting
g2) I smashed him and did 2 misdirection on sinkhole and hymn to tourach. misdirection is GG card!
g3) same as g1. mulligan mulligan mulligan
every turnament there is a game I lose thanks to mulligan to much. unfortunately that was against a team america. It's the first time I lose to team america with this build.
so I'm out of top8. bad game because I could do top 8 thanks to very good raiting

T8 I can't remember. I lost against I can't remember. I was upset.

in top 8 there were at the end 2 landeed, 1 zoo, 1 faeries UGr, 1 ANT (it was end of June)

SECOND TURNAMENT:

T1: dark boros 2-0 pro-red + trinket + calice1 + sword for the win
t2) misdirection for the win

T2: enchantress 0-2 (same player as the previous turnament) 0-2 I hate enchantress
I'm not enought fast on g1
I don't see my side on g2 (3 hibenation + 3 aura flux)

T3: my friend with a strange and strong old-style rock 2-0 (4 duress 4 tourach 4 sinkhole 4 pernicious 4 StP 3 edicts 8 big creatures like spiritmonger and exalted angel). We flip the coin to decide wether to play or draw. we play. g1 & g2 I'm too fast for him (misdirectio on hymn to tourach on g2 for the win) even he succeeded in reset the board with pernicious deed on g1.

T4: another rock1-2 . he plays too much birds of paradise who stop my flyers and he plays 2 jitte (the first breaks mine, the second breaks me). I win g2. I lose g3 in the same way as g1.

T5: WG aggro 2-0. I had never see that deck before. he was running mother of runes, serra little angel 3/3, reliquiary knight, vials, StP, mystic+equipments, qasali... but I'm too fast.
g1) I play 1 cloud 2 serendib, a chalice @1, 1 jitte and 1 sword
g2) I smash him with t1 chalice at 1, t2 cloud+jitte. he breaks both chalice and jitte with 2 qasali but I play a second jitte and misdirect his sword to plowshares on his angel. YEAH! cloud of faeries is so strong, and misdirection too.

TOP8:
ANT. yes, I'm happy. but my deck decides not to play and gives me notting in g1 in 3 mulligan.
g2) I havn't understood jet how was his deck running after the B/R banning tutor. I play tormod chalice 0 and 1 and turn 1 but I draw 4 lands in a row without seeing a beater to swing with the jitte in my hand. he hurkyl my chalices in EOT and makes 12 goblins with the storm red card. I lose. I was not happy losing to ANT with faerie stompy.
I realised he was running red with instead of mystical tutor, to find Ad Nausea in the side. it wasn't TES, it was ANT.

top 4 was: 2 zoo, 1 faeries UGr, 1 dark depth.

Anyway I won a vindicate for my UWb control deck.

the deck is fun
the deck is fast and if we succeeded in open aggressively very few decks can resist 3 turns if we play aggro style.

as for the building
- I'm very happy with cloud of faeries + 8 equipments + 3 thist (allows me to play 8 equips).
- I'm very happy with the 4 jitte because aggro opponents decks need to break it to win, so 4>>3... and I have thirst...
- I'm very happy with misdirection! I won so many games with it. I usually take out 1/2 fow + somethink else for MisD
- I'm not sure about propaganda because I'm so fast anyway. I prefere smashing him that slowing the opponent.
- I'd like to try back to basics/winter orb in the side because I think landstill are coming back
- I'd like to try glen elendra too in the side. BUT NOT taking out my misdirection. they do not the same work to my view...
- I'm not sure of sower. I sideboard them in only against decks I don't need weatherseed faeries & not running hate vs my lands like sinkhole or wasteland. the conclusion is that I use them only vs bant.
- I love timewalk-pestermite. If There were less red remouval in heaps of deck I would have use them instea of pro-red.

@ Honoluluicecaps. with this build I feel confortable vs zoo (pro-red maindeck). chalice @1 stops a lot of his deck. misdirection in the side to substitute to 3 force of will makes the rest. if you are so scared of zoo, put an E.E. in the side to take with trinket for a wrath of god similar-effect .

sorry for the so long post. come on guys, play faerie stompy again!

Libeck
07-12-2010, 07:04 PM
Hi
There has been some discussion about the Mulldrifter Vs. "other card draw" issue... i have been trying versions with and without Mulldrifters, and i am always finding them to slow... is it a matchup thing or is it my playstyle? i have mostly faced belcher, mefolk, bant survival and landstill, and the mulldrifter have never been what it could be.

Derm
07-14-2010, 06:06 PM
Does the unbanning of Grim Monolith change anything about this deck's viability? It seems like it could do some good things...

Turn 1 Chalice for 2.

Turn 1 play your 3cc guy, Turn two drop a monolith and accelerate into a SoFI and equip it in the same turn.

It seems to make Mulldrifter work much better. Rather than a Divination, you'll get the 3-for-1 you want more often.

I was having trouble with consistent acceleration. I tried going up to 3 Chrome Mox and 3 Mox Diamond, but they were such dead draws that it hurt more than it helped. I was also having trouble dropping equipment and equipping it in the same turn.

What do people think?

from Cairo
07-15-2010, 01:03 AM
Has anyone been playing around with Jace TMS in Faerie Stompy. It seems like a powerful shell to (ab)use him in. He can come online dangerously early, turn 2 admittedly rarely, and more commonly 3. Chalice locks out burning him, the unsummon can be a gigantic tempo play, and the fateseal ability is also nuts if you have flying pressure on board and get to bury relevant removal/racing options. He seems definitely worth testing in the 3 Sower slots and maybe a 4th biting a slot from the Equipment package (since cutting equip-able bodies).

Libeck
07-23-2010, 10:14 PM
So what do we think about the new Sword??

http://www.svenskamagic.com/center/uploads/69/sword_of_body_and_mind.jpg

replacing any of the old ones?

DuxDucis
07-24-2010, 12:31 AM
I'm pretty sure that this one isn't going to be good enough. I've read about a red-white sword, we will have to wait and see on that one.

SoFI gives you extra damage and some form of card draw, while SoLS can help to erase the pain of Ancient Tomb and recycle beaters from the graveyard. Also protection from white, black, and red are much more useful than pro green and blue. Sure there are corner cases of when protection from green would be helpful, however those are just corner cases.

At this time I see no reason why this one would be any better.

Dr. DOOM
08-03-2010, 03:48 AM
So what do we think about the new Sword??

replacing any of the old ones?

Besides from the comparison with the existing swords being in the favor of the old ones, the milling ability will be horrible in the matchup against:

-Loam decks
-Threshold
-Anything with a Goyf or Tombstalker in it
-Reanimator, anyone?
-Ichorid

So that makes half the metagame, lol.

Then it gives you a token for chumpblocking a huge Terravore, Goyf or whatever. Just Great. And protection from green on a single creature is never or rarely the right solution in a matchup against decks that play green.
I really do hope there will come a sword that is Red/Black or Red/White that will have some removal ability or deals additional damage.

RichardK
08-14-2010, 10:42 AM
I just wanted to ask if it si possible to play this deck without FOW?

I'm playing on MTGO and FOW costs there $80 or more for a single piece and I really don't want to pay $320 for a playset or more.

Maybe daze, spell pierce or spell snare instead of FOW? Or I could just add more equipment/creatures? What do you think?

Eldariel
08-14-2010, 11:25 AM
It's possible but will weaken some MUs; FoW generally serves to deal with cards you really just can't deal with otherwise. It also serves as a means to delay combo-decks long enough to setup your Chalices. So you'll have to understand those MUs will suffer, but I could easily see adding some extra guys (especially game-changers like Sower or Glen Elendra Archmage) in those slots for some extra oomph against fair decks.

Dr. DOOM
08-23-2010, 05:57 AM
I just wanted to ask if it si possible to play this deck without FOW?

I'm playing on MTGO and FOW costs there $80 or more for a single piece and I really don't want to pay $320 for a playset or more.

Maybe daze, spell pierce or spell snare instead of FOW? Or I could just add more equipment/creatures? What do you think?

You can try replacing it with Spellstutter Sprite, or Trinisphere just like Dragon Stompy does. That would work best I think.

Spellstutter Sprite gives you an additional equippale body to hit your opponent with and works well with Glen Elendra Archmage, Sower, and Pestermite.

The problem with Trinisphere has always been that your own FOW's then cost 3 mana+1life+a blue card. Since you don't play FOW it will make your matchup against combo better and also your matchup against decks that run daze and FOW.

socialite
09-16-2010, 12:59 PM
I'm still waiting to see what the Red/White Sword will be. I hope it is something along the lines of Lightning Helix every connect.

Etched Oracle... cute garbage?

Libeck
09-20-2010, 11:57 AM
Hmmm new Sphinx looks kinda good.....

http://www.starcitygames.com/images/article/argentsphinx.jpg

Might be something????

DuxDucis
09-20-2010, 12:04 PM
It's slower than Sea Drake, has less toughness than Serendib Efreet, and has UU in its casting cost. I don't think this replaces anything in the deck.

Black Mass
09-21-2010, 03:37 PM
It' probably a long shot, but could be worth discussing:
Brittle effigy, we could use a spot removal slot, that can handle the larger creatures in the format (Stalker, Emrakul, ...) but is it worth the cost?
http://www.black-lotus.nl/mtg/lg/M11/Brittle_Effigy.jpg
Pro's
- It offers colorless spot removal
- It could be tutored with Trinket mage

Con's
- slow
-5 mana to cast and use it
- @1 it mostly get's countered by our own chalice lategame


Just fishing here, haven't tested anything yet...

martyr
09-21-2010, 06:19 PM
Chimeric Mass is kind of getting me all hot and bothered.

mercs
09-22-2010, 05:35 PM
It' probably a long shot, but could be worth discussing:
Brittle effigy, we could use a spot removal slot, that can handle the larger creatures in the format (Stalker, Emrakul, ...) but is it worth the cost?
http://www.black-lotus.nl/mtg/lg/M11/Brittle_Effigy.jpg
Pro's
- It offers colorless spot removal
- It could be tutored with Trinket mage

Con's
- slow
-5 mana to cast and use it
- @1 it mostly get's countered by our own chalice lategame


Just fishing here, haven't tested anything yet...


brittle effigy is ok. nice diggable removal.

Am i the only one who's been using jace in this deck? It's treated me fairly well so far. deals with the emrakul tombstalker and a late iona. i think it's a fine slot although I know it's kinda hard to decide to just throw an extra $300 into this deck :P

from Cairo
09-23-2010, 01:11 AM
Chimeric Mass is kind of getting me all hot and bothered.

Seems a good replacement for Sigil of Distinction anyway.

evanmartyr
09-23-2010, 01:05 PM
Why replace a good card with a good card? Why not just run both?

Chimeric Mass just gives you a large creature to wear equipment, dodge some removal, and fetch with Trinket Mage. Sigil fulfills a different function.

Black Mass
09-24-2010, 06:38 AM
brittle effigy is ok. nice diggable removal.

Am i the only one who's been using jace in this deck? It's treated me fairly well so far. deals with the emrakul tombstalker and a late iona. i think it's a fine slot although I know it's kinda hard to decide to just throw an extra $300 into this deck :P

I've been giving him some thought, haven't got the time to test lately.

Jace seems solid, allthough he is absolutely not an aggressive play + we don't really have the means to keep him alive, so it'll possibly be 2(u)(u): Brainstorm, bounce or look @ top card.

But if he sticks he could be good, now I just need to find room for him. I don't like cutting Sowers or cut into my draws.


@ Chimeric Mass

I don't understand what the fuss is about.
It'll practicly allways smaller than a late-game knight, terravore, even goyf. It doesn't have any evasion AND you have to pay (1) to activate him. If they sword or destroy it you just lost 1 mana (detail I know)
Other problem I have with him is that he's a 0cmc, if they blow up a chalice with explosives or deed, your 5+ mana invest is gone.

Dr. DOOM
09-30-2010, 11:20 AM
@ Chimeric Mass

I don't understand what the fuss is about.
It'll practicly allways smaller than a late-game knight, terravore, even goyf. It doesn't have any evasion AND you have to pay (1) to activate him. If they sword or destroy it you just lost 1 mana (detail I know)
Other problem I have with him is that he's a 0cmc, if they blow up a chalice with explosives or deed, your 5+ mana invest is gone.

Isn't it the equipment that makes this deck dangerous? You can fetch a threat to equip AND an equipment for your threat, most builds run 4 trinket mage... Isn't it a matter of skill to play around EE and Deed? Doesn't Chalice counter your opponents' 1 and 2 manacost removal? There's an answer for every card and it's up to yourself to deal with that.

In short, I think that this cards matches the strategy of the deck and that you'll have to test if it suits your playing style. Some years ago people tried to include that other X artifact but the X activation cost was a backbreaker.

Black Mass
09-30-2010, 03:22 PM
Off course there is allways an answer to every threat, I get that.
But in the early stages of a game I mostly fetch a chalice with my trinket mages and late game I allmost allways have a beater or play trinket mage and fetch Sigil. Which I can equip the next turn and attack with a 2/2 with +x/+x. In this case the mage has become a serious threat that can attack.
If I would want to fetch this artifact I'd have to wait another turn, otherwise I would miss out on a potential 3 extra power plus having to wait another turn for it to become effective doesn't sound very sexy to me.

I like to play this deck aggressive, so I guess it is a matter of taste to play this card.

Alexeezay
09-30-2010, 04:25 PM
what do you think of this list?

MB:
11x Island
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb

4x Trinket Mage
3x Mulldrifer
4x Sea Drake
4x Serendib Efreet
3x Weatherseed Faeries
1x Sower Of Temptation
1x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1x Rushing River
4x Force Of Will

4x Chrome Mox
4x Chalice Of The Void
1x Pithing Needle
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword Of Body And Mind
3x Sword Of Fire And Ice

SB:
1x Weatherseed Faeries
2x Sower Of Temptation
1x Brittle Effigy
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Pithing Needle
1x Rushing River
2x Llawan, Cephalid Empress
3x Hibernation
2x Misdirection

improvements are welcome.

Dr. DOOM
10-01-2010, 01:59 AM
Off course there is allways an answer to every threat, I get that.
But in the early stages of a game I mostly fetch a chalice with my trinket mages and late game I allmost allways have a beater or play trinket mage and fetch Sigil. Which I can equip the next turn and attack with a 2/2 with +x/+x. In this case the mage has become a serious threat that can attack.
If I would want to fetch this artifact I'd have to wait another turn, otherwise I would miss out on a potential 3 extra power plus having to wait another turn for it to become effective doesn't sound very sexy to me.

I like to play this deck aggressive, so I guess it is a matter of taste to play this card.

You're right, I had not thought of that. Good point.

serendib
10-01-2010, 07:48 AM
@ Alexeezay: I kind of like your list because you use 3 weatherseed faeries as I do too.

I was actually thinking of taking FS back to my turnaments cause in Italy the metagame is incerdible so aggro. As far as merfolk are every day stronger just as vengevine, bant decks a fewer than before and bant is the deck I don't like to play against with faerie stompy.
I think the main strenght of faerie stompy is that it can beat every aggro deck. (even actually I'm not sure about the vengevine madness match up). So I like playing the aggro build, as faster as possible. and 8 equipments!

9 island
1 sede del sinodo
8 ancient traitors
4 chrome mox

4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
4 cloud of faeries
3 trinket mage
3 weatherseed faeries

3 thirst for knowledge

4 force of will
4 chalice of the void

4 sword of fire and ice
4 uwezawa's jitte
1 pithing needle

I actually don't understand yet why most players don't play cloud of faeries anymore.
turn2: cloud + equip is GG most of times vs aggro decks.
(or turn 2: cloud of faeries + chalice @2 )

as far as I like 8 equipments (because our creatures are too small if we don't equip them) I prefere thirst for knowledge rather then mulldrifter because it is virtual ancestral most of times.
weatherseed faeries is autowin vs some decks. that's why I run them.
I don't like having cc4 spell maindeck (I use sower in the side) because wasteland is so popular that I want to be able to play every spell I like in the first 2 turns.

as for some cards I've read about:
- jace is too slow. remember tomb
- new sword: it is a defensive sword. I like offensive swords: jitte is better, fire/ice is better. it doesn't even protect our creature from any remouvals. it gives madness more vengevine...

My advice is: in this metagame let's go back to fast build. leave slow cards at home or in the sideboard. I don't think the "modern" build can win matches anymore. Let concentrate on the strongest aspect of faerie stompy. be fast.

my sidebord would be at the moment:
2/3 sower
4/3 propaganda
2/1 pithing needle
1 tormod
3 hibernation
3 misdirection >>>> glen elendra. faster. GG vs black based decks & zoo.

Alexeezay
10-01-2010, 08:06 AM
thanks, gonna fit in cloud again.

dlg
10-20-2010, 09:08 AM
Long time ago, i played this deck before i switched to Merfolk, but the folks are like counter goblins and no complete fun... you have to race each game^^

So I'm thinking how to get my cute stompy back to buiseness.

Let's start with it:

Mox Opal, Chrome Mox or Mox Diamond?

I've always played the Chrome Mox list but today we've to think about it.
We've to consider the differences between the three possible lists.

Mox Opal:

Pro:
- no "imprint"
- any colored mana -> enables Engineered Explosives

Contra:
- needs a high Artifact count
- legendary

Mox Diamond:

Pro:
- any color -> enables Engineered Explosives
- takes a land, not a utility spell or creature

Contra:
- needs a high landcount (~24)
- imprint

Chrome Mox:

Pro:
- needs neither lands nor metalcraft

Contra:
- takes utility spells to imprint
(- only mono)


Which cards are new in the format and might be abused with our high efficient manabase?

- Porno-Jace -> must be played!
- Ratchet Bomb -> will be a great sideboardcard
- Steady Progress => very interesting card but probably not playable at the moment (imagine the possibilities =D)


Let's try to construct the three possible manabases :)

The classic Chrome Mox list will be like:

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8-9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod

so there is nothing new.

The Mox Diamond list:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Seat of Synod
8-9 Island
so we miss 6-8 lands, possibilites are:
Maze of Ith
Wasteland
?Mishra's Factory?


The Mox Opal list:
3-4 Mox Opal -> Multiple Moxes were always kinda dead cards, this one is it really ;D
4 Seat of the Synod - for the artifact count
5 Island
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

so till here is nothing new =)


What should be different to other lists?
Mox Diamond enables land control (even to abuse Crucible in the early game - turn 2 Wasteland lock)
Chrome Mox keeps the main aggro list
Mox Opal enables more speed and a new deck concept!

Let's start with a "new" Chrome Mox list:

Mana [22]

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Shoreline Ranger

Artifacts [12]

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sigil of Distinction

Instants [4]

4 Force of Will

Creatures [20]

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Pestermite
4 Mulldrifter

Planeswalker [2]

Jace, the Mind Sculptor


The Mox Diamond list:

Mana [27]

4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Seat of Synod
9 Island
3 Maze of Ith
2 Wasteland

Instant [4]
4 Force of Will

Artifact [13]

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sigil of Distinction

Planeswalker [2]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Creatures [14]
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
2 Lu Xun, Scholar General or Meloku or Ertai

Never tested it but it seems to work out;)


And here comes the new Mox Opal list - more aggro:

Mana[22]

4 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod
6 Island
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Instant [7]
4 Force of Will
3 Thirst for Knowledge

Artifact [11]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sword of Light and Shadow


Creatures [20]

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Master of Etherium
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite



To understand how to play the decks, we should analyze the new card choices, that were made here.

Lu Xun, Meloku or Ertai are the best blue 2 off control creatues for a deck like this.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor:
- The best blue Planeswalker ever (maybe for 2 years ;D) and we can afford his costs in round 2. With a chalice @ 1 and some bord control, he can win the game alone or support our gameplay strongly - creature bounce, brainstorming oder fatesteal. Just great for a possible second turn save-play.

Mox Opal:
see above^^

Master of Etherium:
If you can afford the whole artifacts, he will be easily 4/4 or greater and he boosts our 0 mana creatures.

Memnite, Ornithopter:
There aren't many games where we play our chalice @ 0 so these are just great equipment-carrier. Why to pay for a creature if we can get them for free and play our equipment in that turn to attack in the next one?:)

DuxDucis
10-23-2010, 04:45 AM
I think you have to try too hard to make Mox Opal work. While Chrome Mox may cost you a card you aren't forced to play useless creatures like Ornithopter and Memnite. You're pitching all your bombs to FoW and stuck beating with 0/1s and 1/1s.

While I personally don't think Mox Opal is worth running, you might as well run Esperzoa if you are going to do it.

boneclub24
12-02-2010, 12:34 AM
This is a list I've been running with moderate success:

Sources: 23
10 Island
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
1 Shoreline Ranger

Bodies: 19
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Mulldrifter
3 Pestermite

Artifacts: 12
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sigil of Distinction

Spells: 6
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard: 15
4 Misdirection
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Hibernation
1 Pithing Needle

I've only tested it against a few of my friends' decks, notably Affinity and Merfolk. I'm getting mixed results from 'Folk, but I generally do well against Affiniy. Also, Jace wins games. The bounce ability is so good here.

Alexeezay
12-02-2010, 09:19 AM
it sucks to get a creature Path to Exiled while you got a City of Traitors in play. ...just happened to me the last time I played this deck on a tournament. not that funny for the faerie stompy player actually :D

wcm8
12-02-2010, 09:49 AM
it sucks to get a creature Path to Exiled while you got a City of Traitors in play. ...just happened to me the last time I played this deck on a tournament. not that funny for the faerie stompy player actually :D

You dont have to put a land into play, it has a 'may' clause.

Alexeezay
12-02-2010, 10:13 AM
oh lol, I should read cards that came out when I didn't play magic :/

Taurelin
12-02-2010, 12:52 PM
Even better:


10/4/2004: City of Traitors does not trigger on lands that are put onto the battlefield without playing them.

Alexeezay
12-03-2010, 01:31 AM
now that is the biggest fail in history

GoblinZ
01-01-2011, 03:30 PM
I did some test against some decks such as Goblin,GW aggro and Aggro Loam,I found the result was good
I want to know if the Countertop Bant is a favorable match up for us
and as for the SB, is propaganda better than Silent Arbiter?

Besides I found that pestermite is not as good as I imagined before,so I want to kick it off and add more sower of temptation in the main board

Please give me some advice thanks!

GoblinZ
01-01-2011, 03:40 PM
Personally,I donnot think Jace can fit this deck well...

serendib
01-01-2011, 04:00 PM
I don't think jace fit the deck me either.

Yes, goblin , GW and loam are positive match up to my games too.

the problem of vial deck like goblin and merfolk is that they are solid deck while we are a little bit more instable, and that make the match up more casual (even our race is faster)

I personally run:

9 island
1 sede del sinodo
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 chrome mox

4 cloud of faeries [THE card of the deck to my view, so many games won thanks to them]
4 trinket mage
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
3 weatherseed faeries / sower of temptation (depends if I espect tempo faeries ugr decks quite popular in italy, gobs and supreme blue running firespouts )

2 thirst for knowledge
4 force of will

4 chalice of the void
4 umezawa's jitte
4 sword of light and shadow
1 pithing needle

side:
2 GRINDSTONE °°
4 PAINTER'S SERVANT °°°°
1 tormod's crypt
3 sower of temptation / weatherseed faeries
2 misdirection
2 hibernation
1 rushing river / misdirection number 3

and I like painter-grindstone in the side which I use vs vial decks to increase my speed and aggressivity (I don't see chalice very usefull in g2 especially if we are on the draw, pithing needle is what you need to stop vial). I used to run propaganda for a lot but as for my recent test the combo option is better especially vs merfolk. I it also very good vs enchantress which is a bad mu without them...

GoblinZ
01-03-2011, 09:52 AM
Thanks!

The paiter-grindstone combo looks cool but I prefer using propaganda or silent arbiter against Goblin or Merfolk,I agree with you that cloud of faeries should remain in the main board。 And I think Sword of light and shadow is really good against Sword to plowshares,path to exile or smother etc。。。As for the weatherseed faeries, I found these days zoo began to be popular in my city,maybe I can add some in my main board or SB。。。

there is my version

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
1 sede del sinodo
7 island
2 fetch land
1 volcanic island
4 chrome mox

4 cloud of faeries
4 trinket mage
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
2 pestermite
2 sower of temptation

2 mulldrifter or thirst for knowledge
4 force of will

3 sword of fire and ice
2 sword of light and shadow
3 jitte
1 needle
4 chalice of void

SB:
3 propaganda or silent arbiter
3 misdirection
2 crypt
1 needle
2 hibernation
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 explosive
1 cursed scroll (it is used to kill mother of rune,goblin piledriver,or that pro blue faerie,etc。。)

And there is no back to basic because there is only one guy running Lands in my city and he never joins the game...

GoblinZ
01-03-2011, 09:54 AM
Sorry 6 island in the MB not 7...and 2 sword of fire and ice not 3...

entity
01-03-2011, 03:30 PM
I would suggest -1 something, +1 Mulldrifter (for total of 3 drifters).
And why are you playing these fetches and Volcanic? Seems like unnecessary weakening of manabase, when all you can use red mana for are EE in sideboard. Especially considering that most likely you won't be able to realiably get that red mana...

And if Zoo is popular, Back to Basics is great. Of course, if they expect it and start fetching basics, it gets worse, but in that case they're still not doing their best - and that's in the worst case, when the best possible outcome might be instant-win.

GoblinZ
01-03-2011, 11:51 PM
I plan to play those fetches and Volcanic for I fear goblin piledriver or that pro blue faerie,maybe it is useless。。。

I am considering cutting two pestermite and add one more difter and one sower or equipment

And against zoo,I prefer misdirection,it can protect my creature and kill their creatures,of course I think Back to Basic is great,but if I add too much Back to Basic and Misdirection, that‘ll make it more unstable

entity
01-04-2011, 05:19 AM
I think Ratchet Bomb would be more useful in that case - even if slightly slower and not fetchable with Trinket Mage, it allows to do the same without opening yourself to additional mana denial. Dunno, you should try it and see where it goes, but splashing (even slightly) in FS seems to risky and unreliable.
Misdirection is goo vs Zoo, yes, but I think you should use it together with Back to Basics taking out FoWs (which imho are too much card disadvantage vs Zoo) and something else (maybe a pair of creatures and an equupment).

GoblinZ
01-04-2011, 11:56 AM
Yes you are right I wll not splash red
it is risky indeed。。。

Djinn
01-08-2011, 01:41 PM
It's been a while since Faerie Stompy has placed decently in a tournament. I won m-l latest Legacy Trial: http://magic-league.com/deck/67019/legacy_t15.html#Faerie%20Stompy26 (34 players)
I know magic-league might not be the best place to claim a deck is good again, but for the record, I decided to use Faerie Stompy because I think that the recent ban of SotF makes it a stronger deck (meta has shifted, and survival decks were not a good pair to FS)

For reference, I played the same 75 cards I played at Madrid:

4 City of Traitors
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Island
3 Pestermite
4 Sea Drake
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Trinket Mage
4 Serendib Efreet
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Weatherseed Faeries
4 Force of Will
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sigil of Distinction
Sideboard:
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Misdirection
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Back to Basics
1 Weatherseed Faeries

Round 1 derflippi (2-1) UBW Shared Fate.dec

Game 1 I foil his early discard spells and removal through a Chalice set on 1. He eventually manages to resolve a Form of the Dragon (Academy Rector+Cabal Therapy) which makes my Trinket Mage equipped with SoFI worthless. I had 4 lands so I proceed to topdeck Glen Elendra Archmage which would kill him even if he pings the Archmage (go me drawing 1 out of 2 outers - the other one being WeatherSeed Faeries).
Game 2 he starts off Pithing Needle naming SoFI and he wins a late game with Moat + Humility
Game 3 I also start off an early Chalice set on 1 and set some early beaters he can't deal with. At the end of the match, he called me lucker :(

Round 2 WeedSeed Dragon Stompy (2-0)

Game1 I play turn2 WeatherSeed Faeries (I didn't remove it for Chrome Mox turn1 in case he might be playing Zoo/any red deck and it worked!). At a certain point he unmorphs his Gathan Raiders for ONE extra damage when he had Jitte down (d'oh) and then he can't just get back to the game while my Serendib Efreet is smashing him down with a SoFI (next time don't unmorph Gathan Raiders vs a pro red :\). Game 2 I had lethal next turn but I had to hope he would draw a card he couldn't play with 3 lands (he had Gathan Raiders and I was at 5 life). He draws, moves to declare Attackers phase, then moves back to Main Phase, lays a land and I tell him he can't rewind. He loses and mimimis for a while. Learn to play :(

Round 3 Tarks with UBG Standstill (2-0)

Game1 I win off a very quick start he can't deal with in spite of multiple FoWs. Game2, he plays t3 Pernicious Deed to my field with a beater. I play Back to Basics which he FoWs and next turn he plays JTMS which resolves. When I cast a second Back to Basics (his 4 lands were nonbasics) and it resolves he can't get back to the game.

Round 4 Dakh with UB Merfolks (2-1)

I lose game1 because I kept a rather weak hand and his merfolks just go all the way over me. Game2 I counter his stuff and win off a SoFI. Game 3 I manage to win through SoFI, Jitte and Serendib Efreet (I was all the game at 1-2 lifes) because he didn't hit any of his 6-outers to win

Round 5 Alakai with ANT (2-1)

I win the roll die, mull to a 3 mox, city of traitors, glen elendra and Sea Drake and decide to keep because no 5 cards will be better than a turn1 Sea Drake. I proceed to cast him and on his turn he goes off with 2 Dark Rituals followed by Ad Nauseaum.
Game 2 he starts off Thoughtseize which I Misdirect to him (!) and then manage to stablish control and eventually win with a resolved Glen Elendra Archmage.
Game 3 I cast Force of Will on his Thoughtseize and then cast Chalice of the Void for 1. He had a petal in play so he responds with Brainstorm. He doesn't go off, and it allows me to play a Trinket Mage and a Chalice for 0, pretty much sealing the deal. What happened afterwards is just history, probably I equippd Trinket with random equipment or whatever, but pretty much the game was over after my second turn.

I am sorry the report is quite rough, I was not expecting to make one so I did not save the logs. I'll keep it in mind for future ocasions.

Regarding card choices:
Cloud of Faeries maindeck is still a beast. I can't imagine myself cutting them, as they're just the engine which makes the deck work
The 1/1/1 maindeck split: I am not happy about it, but in an unknown meta, I think it's the best way to go. Any card might be a 3-of given you know the meta, but in my opinion it's great to have outs vs any deck and you can always side out the cards you are not happy with and bring in the cards you need for game2/game3
Lack of TFK/Mulldrifter maindeck: Ok, my version loses Card Draw. So what? I playtested with both TFK and Mulldrifter and I was happier about TFK but they didn't make the cut over the 1/1/1 split as I was always lacking beaters and I needed them asap. Probably that might cost me some games, but the fact that you can get a creature to equip as soon as you cast it has won me too many games.
2 Tormod's Crypt sideboard: I decided to up the count to two before going to Madrid because I expected more Reanimator/Dredge based decks in the GP. I am not certain whether it's good to have 2 or it should be back to just 1. Time will tell when the meta stablishes.
For the rest of the sideboard, I used all the other cards or I am happy to keep them in.

Greets,

Djinn

GoblinZ
01-08-2011, 02:43 PM
Congratulations!I really like your report and you have improved Sea Stompy is still very powerful。I agree with you that mulldrifter is not that good,for we just need beaters to finish the game as soon as possible。And I used to think UBG landstill was a bad match up for us,now I know Back to basic is amazing。。。

serendib
01-15-2011, 11:08 AM
@ Djinn : my compliments.
I've always apreciated your lists and I agree mostly on all your 75 cards

Differently from you I like running one more equipment (4+4) and 2 thirst for knowledge.

I consider thirst as a bomb card in the deck because it makes me clean my hand from too much lands or moxes in the mid-late game (or eventually one equipment) alllowing me to explode again the following turn.
It is also very very good on turn 1 if I don't have trinket or chalice in my opening hand (I don't allways want to start with creature if it means using 4 cards in my hand and no FoW/CotV: land + mox + pitch + creature)

I think it is THE card that don't let your deck stuck in the mud (I don't know if is the right expression). Once I used to play 3X but recently I think 2X is better.

The only "Slop" it gives the deck is that it takes the slot of 2 creatures, but very few times I had that problem (I run 19 creatures) because thirst helps you also protecting your creatures.

Recently I was testing painter-grindstone side plan but I need some more test with it
otherwise I like
6 creatures (3 glen + 3 sower/ 3 weatherseed faeries _ depending on wich one I have 3X maindeck as meta choice,. most times pro-red maindeck)
3 misdirection
1 tormod
1 needle
1 explosive
3 back to basics

personally, running 8 equips, I nearly never felt the need of a tutourable equip.
But If I would run 7 I would probabely put it in.
Are you happy with the Sigil ? Can you please tell me if you tutor it most times because you don't have an equip online or to have one more on field, or to make a creature excape from opponents' red remouvals.

thank you and excuse me for my englis.

from Cairo
01-27-2011, 03:45 PM
Anyone thinking about (or started testing) Phyrexian Revoker in a Faerie Stompy shell? This might not be the right shell for it, but it seems like it has potential. Proactively answers SDT, Aether Vial and LED, carries a Jitte or Sword, all while being protect-able via Chalice of the Void and Force of Will. In the post-Survival-meta it seems like it has a lot of application versus the major established archetypes. Just figured I'd mention it since I didn't see any discussion of it yet.

Djinn
01-27-2011, 06:46 PM
I pondered whether he'd be a good inclusion or not. He sucks vs lands.dec, which is one of the matches where I am craving Needles the most (Maze of Ith anyone?). Also, I don't think he's that great versus Pernicious Deed-style decks. AND, more important though, you can't fetch it off a trinket mage (huge vs charbelcher) and sometimes you can't play him turn1 (which is good against SDT or Aether Vial). Probably worth testing, but my initial posture is a no-go.
Also, I hope they'll ever print a good sword for this deck. The new one is also bad for our gameplan :(

overseer1234
01-28-2011, 10:40 AM
Also, I hope they'll ever print a good sword for this deck. The new one is also bad for our gameplan :(

Indeed, I realy hope the red white sword wl have some good ability's..

dlg
01-30-2011, 03:28 PM
just the typical...

the deck is stucked within the old cards and so we can't evolve without changing the basic structures.

on the other hand the meta is als evolving in a better way for us: no more survival, no more mystical tutor but more aggro and blue - just how we like it!

personally i would say just grab your old list and run it at your next tournament, you'll see how well it slaps any small deck with challice 1 because no midrange deck can reach our tempo without disruption.

kinda
02-18-2011, 02:29 AM
How about a red splash for firepout?

4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
4 pestermite
2 weatherseed
2 sower

2 jace
3 sword of fire
3 jitte
3 firespout
4 chalice
4 fow
2 daze

Mana: 23
3 chrome mox
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 volcanic island
7 fetches
1 island

sb:
3 splinter twin
1 firespout
2 earthquake
4 mindbreak trap
4 tormod's crypt
1 daze

kinda
02-20-2011, 04:23 PM
Updated: Tested very well.

Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [LRW] Island (1)
2 [U] Tropical Island
1 [A] Taiga
2 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

// Spells
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
3 [RAV] Compulsive Research (could be mulldrifter)
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [SHM] Firespout

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 4 [MI] Mind Harness

entity
02-20-2011, 07:29 PM
Wow.
This seems like a completelyt different deck.

You dropped City and play only 3 Mox Diamonds, so your chances to play Chalice @1 on turn1 (one of the greatest strenghts of the deck) seem very small.
You're playing 14 creatures, 4 of them don't have evasion. Only 3 equipments. No Trinket Mage.

I'm sorry, but I don't think this could be classified as FS anymore. However, I would be interested in seeing testing results - in a new thread for your deck perhaps :)

overseer1234
03-25-2011, 08:11 PM
Here's an article about Faerie Stompy

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/21181_Building_a_Legacy_Why_Sea_Drake_Is_Insane.html

I like the MD phyrexian revoker as it's an answer to so much stuff we hate to see (I mean, qasali pridemage, knight of the reliquary, P.Deed, Vial,.... you name it...)

C'mon people discuss, this deck deserves some thought wit the meta shifting like every time a tournament show's up....

Djinn
03-28-2011, 06:59 PM
Hi there,

I decided to test maindeck Phyrexian Revokers before reading that article. I have been playing FS for quite a while now, and yesterday I top2ed a 67 players magic-league Legacy master.

Top8 Decklists: http://magic-league.com/deck/69088/legacy_t15.html#Bant50344

My list:
4 City of Traitors
9 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Pestermite
1 Sigil of Distinction
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Pithing Needle
3 Misdirection
3 Back to Basics
3 Sower of Temptation

Mini report: I 5-0ed the swiss portion (I had 2 byes though) then lost to CalebD (yes, that's Caleb Durward) in the 6th round and IDed into top8 the last swiss round. Won QF, SF and lost in finals to CalebD's Bant again.

R1-2: Awarded Byes

R3 vs FarturasV with UBG Landstill
Phyrexian Revoker made a great job on this matchup. However, the best play was casting Pestermite in response to his Landstill and being able to FoW his FoW. We were left with few cards in hand, but he couldn't find a removal for 4-5 turns in which Pestermite was smashing face. When he gave me an extra 3 cards with Landstill, I countered his piece of removal and went ahead to win thanks to a piece of equipment

R4 vs Tird Ape with NO Bant 2-0
I remember these games were so exciting I decided to save the logs. You can check the match here http://magic-league.com/mllogger/show.php?id=3774

R5 vs eEnder with Punishing Zoo 2-0
These were quite easier than the usual game vs. Zoo. He couldn't destroy my Chalice set at 1 in any of the games so he lost to my bigger threats and equipment

R6 vs CalebD with Bant 0-2
I don't really remember that match, but he had two Force of Will early in the game to stop my threats and I couldn't really make anything. Game2 he could fight through a couple of chalices thank to Green Sun's Zenith :(

R7 vs diffy: ID

Quarterfinals vs Diffy with Reanimator 2-1
Easy matchup, revokers hating the combo maindeck, chalice is a house in here and sb Sower of Temptation vs his Show&Tell plan, and Tormod's Crypt vs the graveyard path. I kept a bad hand game2 (it only had Force of Will and a Sower, I was expecting an early Show&Tell and kept my hand) and lost that one, but the other two games were quite easy

Semifinals vs hood with Ritual Belcher 2-0
Game1 he starts off Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Manamorphose, Tinder Wall. I let all of these resolve, as I guessed he had a Seething Song and he was going all-in. When he cast Seething Song I have Force of Will for it. Then I proceed to play some dudes and smash face. When I beat him, he declared that he had an Elvish Spirit Guide and Empty the Warrens, so he could have gone first turn 10 goblin tokens, but he opted to cast Seething Song (!) [would you have FoWed his Tinder Wall or any other previous spell?]. Game 2 I start off Revoker on Goblin Charbelcher and I have Engineered Explosives as a backup for Empty the Warrens. I won that second game quite easily.

Finals vs CalebD 0-2
First game I only draw one flying guy and it gets countered. I draw 3 Phyrexian Revoker which do not really pose a threat vs. my opponent's Tarmogoyfs and the like. Second game I keep a hand with Chrome Mox, Blue Card, Island, Phyrexian Revoker, Phyrexian Revoker, Sword of Fire and Ice, Island. My plan here is to go t1 Revoker on Noble Hierarch, t2 Sword of Fire and Ice and t3 equip+revoker on Qasali Pridemage. My turn1 Revoker resolves, I name Noble Hierarch. However, my opponent starts off Green's Zenith into Dryad Arbor. As he had wasted his Zenith, I go SoFI instead of a second Revoker naming Qasali Pridemage. Guess what, CalebD's 2nd turn drop is a Qasali Pridemage with one mana open. I am still pondering if I misplayed or not. I decided to play the aggressive role, but probably should have shut down Qasali Pridemage before showing my Sword of Fire and Ice. After he destroyed my Sword, I draw no threats and his hand is still full of gas.

Concerning the deck choices: I have been reluctant to change my 75 for quite a while, but since I have tested Phyrexian Revoker (+4 Phyrexian Revoker, -1 Pithing Needle, -1 Sower of Temptation, -1 Glen Elendra Archmage, -1 Weatherseed Faeries) I've been more than happy about the change. The little 2/1 is very good vs. almost every deck and it can wield equipment as well. The drawback: too fragile as 2/1, it doesn't have any evasion and it's not blue for Chrome Mox/Force of Will/Misdirection. Still, it's worked great so far for me.

Comments would be welcome, cheers!

serendib
04-04-2011, 05:58 AM
Congrats djiin. I like you builds and play style. I'm testing with revoker too maindeck and it's a gread add to the deck.
I'm playing a little different build I'm really enjoying. It is setted according to italian metagame (a lot of zenith, natural orders, and show and tell, some team america, storm, zoo, rock and decks running fire//ice and firespouts) and turnaments are quite big (often no less than 7 round swiss)

4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
9 island
1 sede del sinodo
4 chrome mox

4 cloud fo faeries
4 phyrexian revoker
4 trinket mage
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
3 sower of temptation

4 chalice of the void
4 force of will

1 sigil
3 swords
3 jitte

side:
3 weatherseed faeries
2 hibernation
1 engineered explosives
1 pithing needle (I fell 1 is enought as far as I have 4 revoker 4 trinknet + 1 needle game 2)
1 tormod's crypt
2 back to basics
3 midsirection
2 vendilion clique

I don't have pestermites in my 75 even if I love their triks on opponents' lands and creatures. But I feel sower maindeck is a better call even a little bit more risky for mana reasons (but on the other side I have 4 more cc2 drops id est revoker)
I'm running 2 hibernation + 2 vendilion instead of 2 glen, back to basics n°3 and needle n°2.
I feel vendilion better then glen because of more reasons. It has flash (and I don't have pestermite), they have very similar casting cost in the economy of our deck (3U + hopefully U open is very similar to 1UU) makes really good race, make us see if opponent has remouval spell like vindicate or krosan and can also make us draw a card cicling a chrome mox or a land...

what you think ?
once again _ bravo djiin !

Clown of Tresserhorn
04-19-2011, 11:07 PM
This deck is certainly well positioned at the moment, and is on my radar for "decks to play" at upcoming SCG events.

I do have a question for all the pros: Why not basilisk collar? The card seems insane against basically anything aggro.

I basically love Djinn's list and as of now, this is what I have sleeved:

4 City of Traitors
9 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Serendib Efreet
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Pestermite
1 Sigil of Distinction
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Basilisk collar
4 Force of Will


Also, what's the status on cloud spirit/rishadan airship?

Clark Kant
04-20-2011, 02:34 AM
I really like this deck idea and the new set just leaked.

Porcelain Legionaire, Phyrexian Metamorph and Moltensteel Dragon are all exactly the kick in the pants this deck needed. Metamorph duplicates your Dragons, Wurmcoils and your opponents Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Progenitus and Emrakuls.

Legionnaire is a fantastic two drop due to the first strike.

Moltentail is a solid 4 drop artifact dragon since it flies and you can trade your life to pump it and do the last bit of damage.

Moltensteel Dragon 4PP
Artifact Creature - Dragon
4/4
(P) can be paid with R or 2 life
Flying
P: Moltensteel Dragon gets +1/+0 until end of turn.

Replace the crappier cards with these and this deck is ready to fly.

Raggedjoe
04-20-2011, 02:36 AM
I really like this deck idea and the new set just leaked.

Porcelain Legionaire, Phyrexian Metamorph and Moltensteel Dragon are all exactly the kick in the pants this deck needed. Metamorph duplicates your Dragons, Wurmcoils and your opponents Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Progenitus and Emrakuls.

Legionnaire is a fantastic two drop due to the first strike.

Moltentail is a solid 4 drop artifact dragon since it flies and you can trade your life to pump it and do the last bit of damage.

Moltensteel Dragon 4PP
Artifact Creature - Dragon
4/4
(P) can be paid with R or 2 life
Flying
P: Moltensteel Dragon gets +1/+0 until end of turn.

Replace the crappier cards with these and this deck is ready to fly.

Ok, please stop this. Posting the same message in three decks (and counting) is not cool, especially when the decks are as diverse as these

ivanpei
04-20-2011, 05:01 AM
Anyone has a Faerie Stompy list post New Phyrexia? I truely believe stompy is well positioned now to take over because of Mental Misstep-aggro that is bound to rise. Lets rape all those 1 drops! Here's my wack at it:

4 Force
4 Mulldrifter
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Spined Thopther (Wow, is this card good or what, able to be cast of just a tomb or chrom+land T1)
4 Porcelain Legionaire (Ideal size against aggro, first strike is sick)
4 Trinket Mage
3 Sower

4 Chalice
1 Sigil
2 Sofi
3 Jitte
4 Chrome

1 Seat of the synod
10 island
4 Tomb
4 City

Imo, there are simply too many good alternatives to the Drake now. Drake gets fried easily because of it's 3 backside and it really sets you back as it is usually one of the last cards you drop from your hand. Having + 8 T1 plays with 4 Thopther and Legionaire seems like a major upgrade for me.

lordofthepit
04-20-2011, 05:05 AM
Anyone has a Faerie Stompy list post New Phyrexia? I truely believe stompy is well positioned now to take over because of Mental Misstep-aggro that is bound to rise. Lets rape all those 1 drops! Here's my wack at it:

4 Force
4 Mulldrifter
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Spined Thopther (Wow, is this card good or what, able to be cast of just a tomb or chrom+land T1)
4 Porcelain Legionaire (Ideal size against aggro, first strike is sick)
4 Trinket Mage
3 Sower

4 Chalice
1 Sigil
2 Sofi
3 Jitte
4 Chrome

1 Seat of the synod
10 island
4 Tomb
4 City

Imo, there are simply too many good alternatives to the Drake now. Drake gets fried easily because of it's 3 backside and it really sets you back as it is usually one of the last cards you drop from your hand. Having + 8 T1 plays with 4 Thopther and Legionaire seems like a major upgrade for me.

I was going to post something like "wut needs moar Sea Drake", but I think this is pretty solid.

I'd still run 4 Missteps though! :laugh:

Djinn
04-21-2011, 08:48 AM
I would not get that excited about New Phyrexia.

Mental Misstep -> Bad, we run Chalice of the Void for a reason, and we avoid playing cards with cmc1
Porcelain Legionnaire -> Weak, no evasion, small compared to Goyf, not blue, not pitchable to FoW, not pitchable to Chrome Mox
Spined Thopter -> I thought this could be included, but then read it twice. Do we actually need a bad beater in this deck? Also, not pitchable to FoW/Chrome Mox. I definitely think Phyrexian Revoker is a better 2 cmc drop. You need guys which do something. A 2/1 flyer for 2 is unimpressive at best.
RW Sword -> I was really looking forward to it, but it's disappointed me, as usual. SoFI is still the best sword out there for this deck.

Conclusion: No modifications will be done to Faerie Stompy. If Mental Misstep starts seeing play as a 4-of, we get quite benefited about it :)

serendib
04-21-2011, 09:03 AM
totally agree.

the only card I think could be interestin to add in the 75 is phyrexian metamorph

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117417&d=1303185738

does phyrexian revoker's ability triggers if we play metamorph with a revoker already on board and we copy our 2/1 artifact ?

anyway I'm not sure I would play it maindeck because I play 4 X revokers and pitchs for mox would be too low in count.

Gheizen64
04-21-2011, 09:19 AM
Yes, Metamorph trigger all triggered ability of copied creatures when it enter into play.

Clark Kant
04-21-2011, 02:18 PM
I don't know if Moltensteel should be ignored completely. It could work as a 2 of. If youve already dealt some damage to your opponent, you can sometimes use fire firebreathing to deal 10+ damage in one turn to finish them off. It sucks that it's not blue Phyrexian mana though.

marit
04-21-2011, 05:02 PM
I would not get that excited about New Phyrexia.

Mental Misstep -> Bad, we run Chalice of the Void for a reason, and we avoid playing cards with cmc1
Porcelain Legionnaire -> Weak, no evasion, small compared to Goyf, not blue, not pitchable to FoW, not pitchable to Chrome Mox
Spined Thopter -> I thought this could be included, but then read it twice. Do we actually need a bad beater in this deck? Also, not pitchable to FoW/Chrome Mox. I definitely think Phyrexian Revoker is a better 2 cmc drop. You need guys which do something. A 2/1 flyer for 2 is unimpressive at best.
RW Sword -> I was really looking forward to it, but it's disappointed me, as usual. SoFI is still the best sword out there for this deck.

Conclusion: No modifications will be done to Faerie Stompy. If Mental Misstep starts seeing play as a 4-of, we get quite benefited about it :)

I more than 100% agree with this, and couldn't have said it better. That being said, I am excited about NPH, especially that new 1cc free counter, because chalice is going to wreck the decks that play it hard.

blaat
04-21-2011, 07:34 PM
I more than 100% agree with this, and couldn't have said it better. That being said, I am excited about NPH, especially that new 1cc free counter, because chalice is going to wreck the decks that play it hard.

Well, the new free counter is a dead card against us anyway so chalice doesn't really matter.

Indeed too bad the white/red sword sucks, rly thought it would be something good to throw in this list.

marit
04-25-2011, 12:54 PM
Well, the new free counter is a dead card against us anyway so chalice doesn't really matter.

Indeed too bad the white/red sword sucks, rly thought it would be something good to throw in this list.

That's the point, practically every deck will be running it, and it will only hurt their matchup with us.

Rinello
05-04-2011, 07:26 AM
Hello guys, I'm Andrew from Italy and this is my opinion on Faerie Stompy.
Actually my list is:

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sower of Temptation

2 Umezawa Jitte
4 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus

3 Chrome Mox
1 Shoreline Ranger

9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

SB:
3 Back to Basics
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Propaganda
1 Tormod Crypt
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engeneered Explosives

--------------------------------------
And this is why:

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sower of Temptation

I think this is pretty much Faerie Stompy's core. Mulldrifter is pretty insane, it works well with Sword of Light and Shadow and wipes away Bridge from Below while being super easy to cast. Sower of Temptation is amazing and I always loved it 4x, also Italian meta is very aggro oriented. Emrakul, Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, you name it: she is going to win you games so many times I cannot imagine this deck with 3 of them, but I can consider her as a 3x if we substitute her with a creature as good as her.
---

2 Umezawa Jitte
4 Sword of Light and Shadow

I think this deck need something between 5 and 7 equipments, so I always tried 6. Works fine for me but I guess I should try the new sword and/or cut a Sword for a Basilisk Collar or a Sigil of Distinction.
Jitte in my opinion is a 2x since more will get you stuck.
I love SoL&S because it gives me recursion but I rarely abused it more than once with Mulldrifter. I'll test the new Phyrexian sword and let you know soon. I guess it will rock with pure damage race potential combined with incredible removal protection but only time will tell.
Sometimes you don't need a Chalice, you need to tutor an equipment and swing for the win but Sigil is life heavy (Ancient Tomb is sexy and lethal) and Collar does not really help with the final blow and also clashes with Chalice.
With 6 equipments however, I found myself stuck with Swords on the field AND another equipment in my hand, when I just needed a creature.
In the end, this is a part of the deck that makes me wonder a lot.
---
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void

3 Chrome Mox
1 Shoreline Ranger

9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

As many already said, Shoreline Ranger is pretty good for many reasons and it is used instead of a Mox, not instead of an Island. I will always use him, I never saw a hand when I wanted Mox instead of him. Also mid_late good topdeck and Force of Will best friend. Superior.
Others are just standard Faerie Stompy cards, I just wanted to point out that I don't feel ashamed to use a random Force on a Mox if this can net me a fast Chalice @ 2. Chalice @ 2 nowadays is the best Chalice we can play, imho.
---

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus

I think this deck needs 1 or 2 dedicated toolbox slots, a swiss army knife, because believe it or not, we cannot win by playin a Chalice and then ignoring anything our opponent does. A maindeck Needle always worked for me, Relic helps me in G1 against Tarmo and random graveyard combo/recursion decks. I am considering a maindeck Crypt instead, but I will always have at least 1 slot for my Trinket Mage's toolbox.
About Jace I think he is awesome. This guy can be cast on 2nd turn and win us the game. Not with his final ability but with pure card advantage.
Faerie Stompy cannot respond to any creature without him and he also can give us some nice manipulation over both decks while we drop bombs, bounce defenders or negate our enemy the chance to save from our lock. Pure strenght, 2x because he is legendary etc...
--------

3 Back to Basics
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Propaganda
1 Tormod Crypt
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engeneered Explosives

Back to Basics can lock a lot of nasty, nasty, NASTY decks out there, period.
Swords are against combo for a fast kill or for protection for specific colours. Maybe after testing the new sword I'll switch also SB swords but I think that we will always need some swords in the sideboard.
Propaganda is kind of an empty slot and I'm considering the new Metamorph to clone some Progenitus etc..
Glen Elendra Archmage is Sower's counterpart so if I see 12 creatures or less I'll swap those immediatly.
------


Basically this is not a "rate my build" kind of post. I would like to share opinions based on experience and see what you think about:

- General legacy Meta and its evolution, since Green Sun's Zenith can blast our Chalice strategy pronto and Jace and other planeswalkers can ruin our game by avoiding our Chalice and givin card advantage.
- Equipments: how many? Which Sword is better? Do we need a Trinket Equipment?
- Answers: can we answer a threat?
- Random stuff: should we add 3 or 4 Trinisphere to the main? Is it pure madness?

Nordlund
05-16-2011, 07:10 PM
I've been using Jace the Mind Man since he came out in Worldwake but I haven't seen much talk if any about him. I've been playing this deck for like 3 or 4 years and in my experience he is a great addition to the deck. What do you guys think of him?

boneclub24
05-16-2011, 08:42 PM
I've been using Jace the Mind Man since he came out in Worldwake but I haven't seen much talk if any about him. I've been playing this deck for like 3 or 4 years and in my experience he is a great addition to the deck. What do you guys think of him?

I've been happy with him, but only with 1-2 copies. Any more and they clog/slow you down.

serendib
05-17-2011, 03:39 AM
Hello guys, I'm Andrew from Italy and this is my opinion on Faerie Stompy.
Actually my list is:

4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sower of Temptation

2 Umezawa Jitte
4 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus

3 Chrome Mox
1 Shoreline Ranger

9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

SB:
3 Back to Basics
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Propaganda
1 Tormod Crypt
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engeneered Explosives


Basically this is not a "rate my build" kind of post. I would like to share opinions based on experience and see what you think about:

- General legacy Meta and its evolution, since Green Sun's Zenith can blast our Chalice strategy pronto and Jace and other planeswalkers can ruin our game by avoiding our Chalice and givin card advantage.
- Equipments: how many? Which Sword is better? Do we need a Trinket Equipment?
- Answers: can we answer a threat?
- Random stuff: should we add 3 or 4 Trinisphere to the main? Is it pure madness?

Hi Rinello. Nice to see I'm not the only one in Italy playing Faerie Stompy (even I play control most times).
I personally like your list, But I don't actually agree on the strategy behind your build.
I explain myself better _ there are 2 ways to play faerie stompy. One is the aggro aproach, one is the aggro control approach. you are playing FS like an aggro control, in fact you are worried about what is you opponent doing using 4sower of temptation 4SoL&S 2Jace TMS 1relic 5 anti-aggro slot in your side...
I think that the strenght of the archetype is the big pressure it can give you opponent. This deck can race any opponent thread by being more fast than your opponent without using 4cc spells (which are even not that easy to cast as far as you are not wasteland immune). Attack is out best defense ! Let your opponent worry about what you play, not the opposite.
myself I'm playing Djinn's list
22 mana sources

4 cloud of faeries
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
4 trinket mage
4 phyrexian revoker
3 pestermite

4 force of will
4 chalice of the void

3 SoF&I
3 jitte
1 sigil

side:
3 misdirection (a must)
3 sower of temptation
3 between: 2/3jace TMS, 2glen elendra, 2/1Llawan, 1masticore (these slot depends on the meta)
3 back to basics
1 needle
1 tormod's crypt
1 e.e.

to my view jace maindeck is not good:
what you want to have is your opening hand is:
2/3 mana sources, 1 trinket mage/FoW/chalice, + dudes and equipments.
maybe can be a nice sideboard.

Rinello: FS shoud beat aggro decks maindeck quite easily, you shouldn't need swords and propaganda in your side.

How are your test going and you match ups ?

Nordlund
05-23-2011, 10:31 PM
With so many more control decks in the field because MM hype I feel that Jace is stronger main deck now until the meta settles down a little I really like him as a 2 of. Jace isn't that bad in your opening hand. I usually get him in the late game which is where he shines. I might even run him as a 3 of. My match-ups seem to be good for the most part. The junk decks and other green decks seem to be the hardest. I was thinking maybe submerge SB.

My current list

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Seat of the Synod
10 Island
4 Trinket Mage
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Shoreline Ranger
4 Force of Will
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Sigil of Distinction
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 Sower of Temptation
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Back to Basics
SB: 3 Misdirection
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Glen Elendra Archmage

the resurrection
05-25-2011, 04:14 AM
9 Island
1 Seat of Synod
4 Ancient tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Chrome mox

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
4 Mulldrifter
2 Jace TMS

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Force of Will

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Trinket Mage
1 Chimeric Mass
1 Sigil of Distinction
3 Treasure Mage
2 Blatterskull
1 Eldrazi Monument

Jace is crazy
Revoker is played in Dragon Stompy...

I replaced 4 Swords and 2 Jitte with,
3 Tutors with legs for...
2 Blatterskull costs 5 Mana, just like an equipped sword and the token is also nice
Eldrazi Monument is a card that can win games. Turning Mages into 3/3 indestructible, flyers is awesome. In Standard it was rediculus ...

entity
05-25-2011, 06:15 AM
„When Treasure Mage enters the battlefield, you may search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost 6 or greater, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.“

Er...you tutor for what exactly with this?
I haven't tried Batterskull, but we get to 5 mana not too often, and unequipped Drakes and Efreets aren't too scary these days, I'm afraid. Either way, let us know how the testing will go.

Has anybody tried Porcellain Legionnaire? 2 additional loss of life is bad, but it has some evasion and is more aggressive than Revoker.

Nordlund
05-25-2011, 09:53 AM
Batterskull costs too much and Legionnaire doesn't have flying nor does it add any utility like Revoker does. Though one thing that I have come across that I find I'm having trouble with is Llawan. People are running him in alot more sideboards now and I haven't really figured out how to deal with him other than Jace or Revoker with equipment.

entity
05-25-2011, 05:27 PM
Yeah, Llavan is one of the reasons I'm trying to look into things like Legionnaire and Moltensteel Dragon...

Nordlund
05-30-2011, 06:12 PM
I played this deck at the GP and failed to make day 3 due to loose playing. I ended up at 6-3 at the end of the day losing to Reanimator, Merfolk, and Dredge. This deck is quite good in the meta right now but due to being a dumbass I didn't prove it to everyone who doubted me.Misdirection and Pestermite are cards I'm not liking as much as I feel I should. One card I really want to test in the SB is Dismember. Llawan is becoming a staple SB card at least in the states so we need to adapt.

GP Providence reportish thing.
I end up registering this list:
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Seat of the Synod
9 Island
4 Trinket Mage
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Pestermite
4 Force of Will
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Sigil of Distinction
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 3 Sower of Temptation
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Back to Basics
SB: 3 Misdirection
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Glen Elendra Archmage
SB: 1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress

Round 1 - Monoblack 2-0
G1 I win handily thanks to Chalice at 1 and an equipped Revoker naming the Nantuko Shade he had in play.
G2 Jace brings me back after stabilizing at 1
Round 2 - UB Reanimator 1-2
G1 He can't beat a chalice at 1 and a Sea Drake
G2 I get owned by a turn 3 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur after failing to play my B2B when he had 1 land tapped while I had a chalice at 1
G3 He gets turn 2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. Turn 3 Iona.
Round 3 - Jund Persist 2-0
G1 Turn 1 Chalice at 1. Then he can't beat my bigger dudes and Jace.
G2 After Trinket Mage into Chalice at 1 I end up Sowering his Kitchen Finks and they seal the deal.
Round 4 - Monored Burn 2-1
G1 I have a chalice at 1 plus Jitte. He was never in the game it seemed.
G2 I can't find a Chalice or Trinket Mage until he has Vexing Susher on the board and he killed every dude I had.
G3 I get Chalice at 1 amd an Equipped Serendib with a Jitte with a Vortex in play and I raced it successfully.
Round 5 - Painter Stone 2-0
G1 He mulls to 5 and doesn't do anything relevant besides playing a Painter Servant which I Forced.
G2 Revoker while he had 2 Grindstones in play, B2B, and Efreet Seal the deal.
Round 6 - Bloodbraid Elf Zoo with Boom/Bust 2-1
G1 I get pounded into the ground and can't find anything to deal with his threats.
G2 Chalice at 1, B2B and Jace let me stabilize at 2 and I seal the deal after Sowering his Goyf.
G3 Jace, Jitte, Chalice at 1 and Sea Drake end the game after a rough start.
Round 7 - Mefolk 2-1
G1 I eventually get pounded in by some Islandwalking
G2 SoFI get me there nuff said.
G3 I land a Jace and Llawan to stabilize at 1 with a Revoker on Vial.
Round 8 - Merfolk 1-2
G1 He gets the perfect curve while I don't see Jace or Equipment.
G2 Ends with a Turn 2 Llawan thanks to the amazing Cloud of Fearies
G3 He lands Lord of Atlantis and Llawan after a few turns I struggle to end up not finding an answer.
Round 9 - Dredge 0-2 (Sunshine)
G1 I open with Efreet, 2 Forces, Revoker, City, Island, Chalice. I ended up removing Force with my Force instead of Efreet countering a Careful Study. Turn 2 he plays Breakthrough for 1 with my Chalice at 1 up. Later on he ends up Theraping himself with a Chalice in play and we don't notice until he finished dredging 17 cards with a Coliseum. Then seals the deal with returning Iona.
G2 I keep a bad hand because it has Crypt. I crypt a little early and he gets consistent way to dredge. Then puts a nail in my day 2 coffin with Iona.

Pros:
-Chalice and Cloud of Faeries for being amazing all day long
-Greatly run event by TJ Collectibles
-Awesome judges and opponents
-Legacy just being legacy
Cons:
-Not testing enough
-Playing horribly at the end of the day because of hunger causing mental fatigue

If the GP were tomorrow I would play the deck again except maybe having some dismembers SB over Llawan and a Sower.

Rinello
05-31-2011, 10:11 AM
Hi Rinello. Nice to see I'm not the only one in Italy playing Faerie Stompy (even I play control most times).
I personally like your list, But I don't actually agree on the strategy behind your build.
I explain myself better _ there are 2 ways to play faerie stompy. One is the aggro aproach, one is the aggro control approach. you are playing FS like an aggro control, in fact you are worried about what is you opponent doing using 4sower of temptation 4SoL&S 2Jace TMS 1relic 5 anti-aggro slot in your side...
I think that the strenght of the archetype is the big pressure it can give you opponent. This deck can race any opponent thread by being more fast than your opponent without using 4cc spells (which are even not that easy to cast as far as you are not wasteland immune). Attack is out best defense ! Let your opponent worry about what you play, not the opposite.
myself I'm playing Djinn's list
22 mana sources

4 cloud of faeries
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
4 trinket mage
4 phyrexian revoker
3 pestermite

4 force of will
4 chalice of the void

3 SoF&I
3 jitte
1 sigil

side:
3 misdirection (a must)
3 sower of temptation
3 between: 2/3jace TMS, 2glen elendra, 2/1Llawan, 1masticore (these slot depends on the meta)
3 back to basics
1 needle
1 tormod's crypt
1 e.e.

to my view jace maindeck is not good:
what you want to have is your opening hand is:
2/3 mana sources, 1 trinket mage/FoW/chalice, + dudes and equipments.
maybe can be a nice sideboard.

Rinello: FS shoud beat aggro decks maindeck quite easily, you shouldn't need swords and propaganda in your side.

How are your test going and you match ups ?

Ciao!

As I played FS and Dragon Stompy I kind of shifted to a control_ish build and now I regret it.
Some friends of mine freaked out when Jace TMS was printed and they are doing the same with Koth and Karn... I think that this fact influenced my mind into putting some PWs in a Stompy deck.
BUT: Stompy decks are aggro, they force YOU to react while putting Chalices and other stuff to force you to play under conditions. While you do that, you die from big fat nasties.

Now that I saw your post I modified my list to a more aggro oriented build.
I switched SoLS to SoFI and added a Sigil of Distinction. I put Relic and Needle in the SB (I know, I could win with a nice Needle or Relic in game 1, specially against Dredge, but I need to test something REALLY aggro to make a choice) and I left Sowers in (for sheer advantage. They are removal, card advantage, they fly and are just awesome)

I'll test and let you know, I like your list but I don't like Revoker Maindeck much, because I think that nowadays we should play Chalice @2 to block pridemage and such. Drop 1 are less and less played in this season because of mental misstep.

Go play FS! Have fun!

serendib
05-31-2011, 12:54 PM
Ciao!

I've made little changes:

22 classic mana sources

4 cloud of faeries
4 trinket mage
4 serendib efreet
4 sea drake
2 pestermite
2 sower of temptation
2 phyrexian revoker

1 pithing needle
4 chalice of the void
4 force of will

7 equipments (3 jitte + 3 SoF&I + 1 sigil )

side:
3 misdirection
3 back to basics
1 sower of temptation
1 tormodìs crypt
1 engineered explosives
2 vendilion clique
2 rushing river
2 jace, the mind sculptor

I'm very happy about it

I take out 2 revoker 1 pestermite for 1 needle and 2 sower of temptation so that I increased the number of possibilities to see a pithing needle effects or tutor for them (tot 7).

anotherday
05-31-2011, 02:34 PM
@Norlund
I've never actually played FS before but I just have a few questions:
- How effective/significant was Sigil of Distinction in your games?
- How smoothly did your deck flow with 2 SoFaI, 2 Jace 2.0 and 4 Trinket Mages as your only sources of immediate card advantage? Did you regret not running any Mulldrifters?
- Was 4 pieces of equipment enough?
- I know Jace 2.0 saved you in a couple games and fits the curve of the deck well, but do you think he is really needed in FS?

@Rinello
About Revoker, Chalice @ 1 already protects your creatures from most legacy removal spells, so wouldn't it be better to just land a turn1 Chalice and use Revoker to stop Pridemage or any other problematic cards that can/may have slipped by?

Nordlund
05-31-2011, 06:01 PM
@anotherday
Sigil of Distinction is a boss. Making your dudes bigger or at a size where they trade with Knight of Reliquary and Goyf is awesome. Not to mention the clock they put on your opponent. That and it's a fetchable equipment.

The flow of the deck is always nice. That and SoFaI isn't immediate CA as you have to hit the opponent. I personally like Jitte more than the sword. I didn't regret not running Mulldrifters because when you evoke him it lackluster unless you're playing against dredge.

I had plenty of equipment. I think maybe 1 more is the correct number. 7 pieces has never been all that great or amazing for me because I only want 1 per game really but they really aren't needed. So between Trinket Mage and Sigil plus the others I never had a problem when you add in Jace.

I think Jace2.0 is absolutely needed. This deck I always felt since I picked it up like two years ago wanted Brainstorm. Jace is that and much more on a stick. Bouncing a dude to alpha swing, killing other Jaces which are getting more popular with the format slowing down and did I mention brainstorm to smooth your draws. The Scry/Fateseal ability is really nice not gonna lie. Faerie Stompy always had trouble in the late game playing the top deck war I feel. Like people have mentioned before he isn't always the best card to see in your opener but it is never a bad card. With Jace and/or Sower in the deck I feel you should have 1 seat to fetch with Trinket. Need more reasons?

Also QFT

About Revoker, Chalice @ 1 already protects your creatures from most legacy removal spells, so wouldn't it be better to just land a turn1 Chalice and use Revoker to stop Pridemage or any other problematic cards that can/may have slipped by?

anotherday
06-03-2011, 07:33 PM
If your meta is full of Emrakul and Prog, Metamorph will suffice. If it's full of Llawan and Iona, Metamorph will unfortunately be useless; Vesuvan Shapeshifter is your answer.

Mystical_Jackass
01-25-2012, 12:12 AM
I think Jace2.0 is absolutely needed. This deck I always felt since I picked it up like two years ago wanted Brainstorm. Jace is that and much more on a stick. Bouncing a dude to alpha swing, killing other Jaces which are getting more popular with the format slowing down and did I mention brainstorm to smooth your draws. The Scry/Fateseal ability is really nice not gonna lie. Faerie Stompy always had trouble in the late game playing the top deck war I feel. Like people have mentioned before he isn't always the best card to see in your opener but it is never a bad card. With Jace and/or Sower in the deck I feel you should have 1 seat to fetch with Trinket. Need more reasons?

Also QFT

This.

I want to second this over and over, Jace is an absolute house in this deck. So, why am I posting here after all this time? Because I've been testing this list once again, extensively for the past week and a half now, testing different spell combinations pretty hardcore.
Why? What originally sparked my interested is the newly spoiled Cage, and I figured this deck has the potential to make very good use of it with its ability to Trinket. Also, this decks always had a special place in my heart from years ago.

Starting out I played the deck very traditionally. However, I started to make changes after several days at a time as seen fit. I was originally fairing... pretty bad, probably winning like 1/3 games but ever since I made a few changes I've literally been winning like 3/4 my games or more against most of the current meta.

Let me start with some issues/observations:
- Pestermite, just sucks against the current meta. Honestly, I twiddle their land at best, maybe tap a creature down. It sucks against Stoneblade, Maverick, ...christ anything. It still pitches to Fow dont worry.
- Sword of Light and Shadow has also been underwhelming. This might seem odd, due to all the white and black removal and creatures in the meta, but I'll tell you why. 1) I rarely get to make use of its recursion ability; 2) removal has changed these days with cards like Punishing Fire & Dismember, moreoften than not they remove the creature in response anyways, so generally the "protection stance" is more often irrelevant. I eventually cut down to just 1, but it's debatable if I'll end up keeping it we'll see.
- Too many equipment. I started out with something like 7-8, I've eventually cut down to 5! It's because although dropping a SoFI wins games, it's slow and taxing against your tempo, especially if anything gets removed in the process of equiping too. It's a big investment, so what you really want is a hand with like 3 creatures and 1 equip, but many times before I'd have hands with 2 creatures, 2 equip.. 2x guys get countered, you're stuck with equip in your hand.

This is my list so far:

//Mana Sources (22)
9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox

//Spells (38)
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
4 Force of Will
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Mulldrifter
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Man-O'-War
1 Sigil of Distinction
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

All right, from testing Jace has been awesome. In all honestly, I lost so many matches playing against the bastard... can't beat 'em, join 'em right. When opponents would get him out, it was literally like hitting a brick wall. Assuming SofI isn't equipped, he can literally lock you out of victory repeatedly bouncing your shit over and over. But after testing him for a few days FOR this deck he provides so much needed CA. Worst case scenario you still get to use his ability, then opponent has to waste an attack turn or burn/resources to remove him allowing you to drop creatures and equipment next turn to set up. I think 3 is the right number, worst case there's almost always something to pitch any spares.
Man-O'-War seems really random, but it's not a mistake. He's good. He's filling the place of pestermite, and he's done a considerably better job. He allows you to do stuff like.. drop Chalice1, opponent plays creature, bounce their creature back and lock it out. Between him & Jace they kill tempo, and allow you to get Trinkets and lock them out of spells. Another thing versus stoneblade worth mentioning, he bounces Germs back to their hand :laugh:. Oh, another creature that hates this, Delver. Let them flip their 3/2, next turn bounce it back to their hand.. oh wait, you can't play that with Chalice can you :) Bounce their Tombstalker, bounce their Arbor, Knight, there's always something worthwhile.
The most hilarious so far was against a sligh deck running running Figure of Destiny. I bounced his "Spirit Warrior" back to his hand in the last game, otherwise he woulda won. There's something funny about watching someone invest like 6 mana into a creature and bounce it heh.

I think this deck has a lot of potential still, and it's still worth exploring. It has the capabilities with dealing with a lot of hate, and with B2B, Revoker, and soon Cage I think this deck can compete.

Qweerios
04-04-2012, 02:42 AM
What about 2-4 Batterskulls in this deck? It's a recurring creature, an equipment, life gain, and it is quite affordable for this deck to cast.

Zalren
04-19-2012, 05:04 PM
I think I am going to test the new 3/4 flier in Avacyn Restored. That means we could run 12 creatures that cost 2U. Plus I was trying Extravagant Spirit and this new card is superior.

Nordlund
04-30-2012, 08:57 AM
I like Misthollow Griffin more than Fettergeist. Paying mana to keep a dude is just plain bad unless he wins in 1 swing. Where as with Griffin you can turn your Chrome Mox into Mox Sapphire and makes your FoW pitches better.

socialite
04-30-2012, 09:07 AM
I like Misthollow Griffin more than Fettergeist. Paying mana to keep a dude is just plain bad unless he wins in 1 swing. Where as with Griffin you can turn your Chrome Mox into Mox Sapphire and makes your FoW pitches better.

AFAIK when you replay him Chrome Mox loses Imprint and no longer produces Blue. Still I could see it working as one of the biggest issues back in the day was Chrome Mox + Force of Will and the lack of Blue cards to pitch considering the high Artifact count. TBH though this deck suffers from bigger issues that really will never bring it past Tier 2.5 barring any insane printings.

Nordlund
04-30-2012, 12:31 PM
I checked and you are correct the mox doesn't work after you cast the griffin. I would not recommend playing the griffin anyways at 4cc the slots are full and the removal spells that are played that exile most likely won't be cast anyways because you should have a chalice at 1. If it isn't equipped then it is a very lackluster creature to have.
@Mystical_Jackass
I like the list. I loved Pestermite in the deck since I put him in. Allows for tricks and the untap ability on the lands is incredible. Also I have had my fair share of alpha strikes because that faerie. Man-O'-War seems subpar no evasion and the ability isn't very exciting unless you have Jace at that point it is win more I feel. I could be wrong though.

Libeck
05-24-2012, 07:13 PM
What about this one?
Something to work with...

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131372&stc=1&d=1337660155

bganns
05-24-2012, 10:13 PM
The Sakashima's Student desserves a look too.

1337erhosen
07-17-2012, 10:07 AM
Messing around with this deck at multiple local Legacy events in Michigan and having surprising success. Here's my most updated list:

4 Fettergeist
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
4 Trinket Mage
4 Cloud of Faeries
2 Mulldrifter

2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sigil of Distinction
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Island
1 Seat of the Synod

Right now SoLS is the solution to Esper Stoneblade, and in testing I have positive match-ups against combo and RUG. Deck is very fun and very rogue, definitely think Fettergeist makes this deck more consistent and worth playing. Possibly taking it to a 1k at BC Comix in Fenton MI in 2 weeks. Any suggestions?

Esper3k
07-17-2012, 01:26 PM
A card I also liked with Trinket Mage was Chimeric Mass if you needed to get a bigger creature rather than equipment.

I've been fiddling around with a Sea/Faerie Stompy list too!

// Lands
8 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [AVR] Fettergeist
4 [P12] Illusory Angel
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
2 [FNM] Mulldrifter
4 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin

// Spells
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
2 [IN] Manipulate Fate

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [6E] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 3 [V09] Trinisphere
SB: 3 [COM] Propaganda
SB: 4 [SHM] Faerie Macabre

The sideboard needs work - it's mainly right now for broad matchups.

I cut all the 4/3's because right now, there are too many 3 power dudes (Delver, Mongoose) and Lightning Bolts running around.

Oh I've also been having some issues with Tarmogoyfs and I'd love to hear if anyone has a good solution to them. Mind Harness is great, but Chalice @ 1 makes it not optimal to use in our deck.

door
07-18-2012, 05:10 AM
Oh I've also been having some issues with Tarmogoyfs and I'd love to hear if anyone has a good solution to them. Mind Harness is great, but Chalice @ 1 makes it not optimal to use in our deck.

I usually run 2 sower of temptation maideck and 2 control magic in sb.

Esper3k
07-18-2012, 04:43 PM
I usually run 2 sower of temptation maideck and 2 control magic in sb.

Yeah, I have a couple in my board for testing (even maindecked a couple Gilded Drakes in testing for awhile).

I'm also considering Submerge and Hibernation as well.

Too bad Mind Harness costs 1!

Honoluluicecaps
07-20-2012, 02:18 PM
For reference, this is the list I've begun testing:


Creatures (24):

4x Illusory Angel
3x Cloud of Faeries
4x Fettergeist
4x Serendib Efreet
3x Phantasmal Image
3x Mulldrifter
3x Pestermite

Business (18):

3x Umezawa’s Jitte
4x Force of Will
4x Chrome Mox
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow

Lands (18):

4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
10x Island

I haven't begun to work on the sideboard yet.

EDIT: LOL RTFC. I don't actually own the copies yet, buddy said it was reverse Esperzoa for critters. My bad.

Also, while I enjoy the Manipulate Fate/Misthollow Griffin combo, I think it leads to too many turns of durdling around. But I'd be interested in testing it more, even though 6 slots dedicated to it seems awfully steep.

Esper3k
07-20-2012, 02:34 PM
I must be missing something here - how are you bouncing your guys again?

The list I've been messing with is intended to fight all the Mongoose/Delver/Lightning Bolts (ie, RUG) with 3/4 dudes (thus all the Fettergeists, Serendibs, Illusory Angels while cutting the Sea Drakes).

Whether or not it's effective is a different matter - I was just enamored with the idea of all the 3/4 fliers for 2U.

Misthollow Griffin was another card I wanted to play around with. In this deck, it also synergizes with Chrome Mox and Force of Will, letting us turn the early card disadvantage into a mid game 3/3 flier. It's also pretty hilarious in matchups where you're facing down exile removal like StP/PtE.

Manipulate Fate pretty much turns into a 4 for 1 when you cast it (I stole that idea from the Food Chain thread) except in this deck, we can actually just keep pooping out a Griffin every turn.

lambert101
07-25-2012, 11:45 AM
Was bored at home and started to brew Fatties in the Sky. Here is the current list.

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Illusory Angel
4 Fettergeist
4 Misthollow Griffin
2 Sower of Temptation
3 Mulldrifter

4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Force of Will
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

11 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

Used to play Dragon Stompy and found biggest problem was card draw. Tried using more card interactions to build up some type of card advantage. Let me know what you think. I did not include Sea Drake because in testing he was a lighting bolt rod.

Esper3k
07-25-2012, 11:59 AM
Hah glad to see other people trying out the Manipulate Fate / Misthollow Griffin tech!

I've been experimenting with Moltensteel Dragons because I found myself wanting more fat.

It feels almost like a suicide deck every time I play them, but man that guy hits hard!

lambert101
07-25-2012, 12:16 PM
Misthollow Griffin tech is used for Chrome Mox, Force of will, and Manipulate Fate.

I understand how we beat Rug- Fatties with big butts and Stone Blade with one fatty, one sword, one win. How do we beat Maverick? Also Death and Taxes seems like a terrible match up.

On the dragon? Its like a hill for a fat kid; wrong scenario.

Let me know hoe the testing goes and what do you feel a sideboard would look like?

One I was thinking about was

3 Cursed Totem (Screw Mav and Grizzy)
3 Propaganda (Merfolk, Dredge, and Goblins)
2 Faerie Macabre (Grave Hate)
3 Trinisphere (Combo)
4 Submerge (Mav and RUG)

Honoluluicecaps
07-25-2012, 12:36 PM
The issue I'm running into is casting Illusory Angel consistently, in other ways than the standard play of sol land, mox, angel, go. Cloud of Faeries is working very well for me, and the ability to cycle it is relevant.

I'm on board with Misthollow Griffin, although I've cut Fettergeist from my list. I really like the addition of Phantasmal Image as well.

Also, @lambert, I see you've gone down to three equipments. Are you finding that to be an issue? I don't like playing with less than 5, but I suppose with the addition of Jace your version plays significantly different from the hyper-aggressive versions.

Esper3k
07-25-2012, 01:00 PM
I have been running 3x Chrome Mox, 2x Mox Opal to help with the casting of Illusory Angels (see my list a few posts back).

Been testing some Revokers and a couple Moltensteels main to add a little more disruption and beef. I ended up trimming down to 5 equipment for now (3x Jitte, 2x SoFI).

SOLS, while powerful defensively, doesn't really put much of a clock on your opponents and while the interaction with Mulldrifter & Faerie Macabre is cute, I feel Mulldrifter is just too slow right now.

With moving away from SoLS, I cut the Faerie Macabres and are now running Tormod's Crypts since it helps both with metalcraft as well as helps Illusory Angels get cast.

lambert101
07-25-2012, 01:49 PM
Jace is in the list because its Jace 2.0! He gives you card draw and can hid behind fatties and win.

The equipment have been mehh. I want to go up but do not know what to cut. The angel has been a problem of late but is so good against RUG.

F. Giest is becoming a pain. I do not like Sea Drake. Revokers sound like a tricky plan. Mox opal does not seem good at all. I am thinking about cutting the angel for Trinket Mage and one gesit for another Jitte. Thoughts?

P.S. Love Finding Chalice with Mage.

Esper3k
07-25-2012, 02:07 PM
Trinket Mage is played in a lot of older lists. In addition to Chalice, Sigil of Distinction is also a popular target to find. If you're wanting a creature, Chimeric Mass is also searchable. A 1 or 2-of Seat of the Synod is also popular to fetch with Trinket Mage in case you need mana.

My issue with Trinket Mage has always been that he's slow and the stuff you tend to tutor up isn't that great if you've been Wastelanded.

Mox Opal has been fine for me - it means you need to run 4x Seat of the Synod, but it's intended more for T2 or 3 Angel than the explosive T1 Angel.

lambert101
07-25-2012, 03:09 PM
Esper, what's your list look like and any boarding theories against the big 3 (mav, rug, control miracles/stone blade)?

Esper3k
07-25-2012, 03:50 PM
Here's the current list I'm messing with. I'm probably going to swap the Moltensteels out for Jace's, but I don't like too many UU casting spells in this deck.

// Lands
8 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [AVR] Fettergeist
4 [P12] Illusory Angel
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
2 [NPH] Moltensteel Dragon

// Spells
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [IN] Manipulate Fate

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [6E] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 3 [V09] Trinisphere
SB: 2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [NE] Submerge

==============================
I like Cursed Totem against Maverick, but it's not as amazing as one would think simply because it doesn't attack. Revoker is in some ways a little better here since you can slap some equipment on it and go to town.

Against RUG, I'd board out the Revokers and bring in the Submerges & Trinispheres.

Against UW, I'd bring in the Jaces and Revokers while probably cutting Jittes.

I kind of want to try and fit in Smokestack somewhere against control and RUG, but I'm not certain it's a fast enough answer. Still, Smokestack against a deck that has few permanents seems pretty awesome.

lambert101
07-25-2012, 10:44 PM
Esper I like your list. The only changes I can think of would be to drop a Jitte for a second M. Fate and the Moltensteels for 2 Jace.

In the side change the Jaces for Echoing Truth?
I could see this deck rising up to preform positively against the field. Keep the brew going. As for a name I like "Fat Bottom Girls."

Esper3k
07-29-2012, 11:29 AM
Esper I like your list. The only changes I can think of would be to drop a Jitte for a second M. Fate and the Moltensteels for 2 Jace.

In the side change the Jaces for Echoing Truth?
I could see this deck rising up to preform positively against the field. Keep the brew going. As for a name I like "Fat Bottom Girls."

Thanks!

I did end up dropping the Moltensteels for Jaces because as much as I liked the Moltensteels, I wanted a little more versatility. I'm already playing 2x Manipulate Fate and have considered going up to 3, but I'm not certain I like going below 5 equipment in the deck since they double both as a clock & removal for us.

Here's the list I played in our local Legacy tournament yesterday:

// Lands
8 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [AVR] Fettergeist
4 [P12] Illusory Angel
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [IN] Manipulate Fate
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [6E] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 3 [V09] Trinisphere
SB: 4 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [TE] Propaganda

I'm playing with a Revokers because they give us another 2 drop we can play off a single Sol Land on T1 as well as giving us a disruptive body. Being an artifact helps with Metalcraft and they also aid in the Maverick matchup (shutting off Nobles, Pridemages, Knights, etc.).

In the board, while I liked Cursed Totems, my testing against Maverick showed that Cursed Totem alone was not enough. Oftentimes, you slow them down with Totem and then they drop a 5/5 Knight and you still lose.

Propaganda is a new addition I was trying out which I believe should help against the tribal and aggro matchups.

Still trying to work out what to board out in my list as well.

Small Report:

Round 1 - vs RGW Stoneblade Aggro Loam
Game 1: I get out an early Chalice @ 1. He manages to get out Elspeth and an Ooze, but I have a Fettergeist and Jace gets me enough card advantage so that when I trade Jace for his Espeth, he's left with 0 cards + soldier vs my 2 cards with Fettergeist & SoFI. Fettergeist + SoFI goes the distance.

-3 Umezawa's Jitte (I feel this is bad in the matchup against Loam since all their guys are huge)
+1 Phyrexian Revoker (Shuts off Knight, Top, etc.)
+2 Sower of Temptation

*On a side note, with a deck like this, I don't tend to board in yard hate against Loam style decks since I feel that we should be trying to outrace them instead of durdling around with yard hate. I could be wrong though and am open to discussion on this.

Game 2: He opens with Wasteland, Mox Diamond into a 1/2 Goyf. I open with Islands, Sol land, double Revoker, Force w/ Griffin. He misses his land drop, so I Revoker his Mox Diamond then Revoker the Jitte he drops next turn. I eventually get down an attacker and finish the game.

Round 2 - vs GW Maverick
Game 1: I on the play, I T1 Chalice @ 1 then T2, Chrome Mox (Imprinting Griffin) into Illusory Angel. T3 play the Griffin out of the Chrome Mox and my fast fliers get there.

-4 Force of Will
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+2 Cursed Totem
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+2 Sower of Temptation

Game 2: I get a fast Serendib out, but he ramps up and gets a Knight, then casts Sigarda! Ugh. Sigarda pretty much shuts me down and when he GSZ's for an Ulvenwald Tracker and gets that active, I can't overwhelm him with fliers before he kills me.

Game 3: This one is pretty brutal. I lead off with a T1 Revoker on Noble Hierarch. He GSZ's for Dryad Arbor. I drop Cursed Totem which shuts the Arbor off. T3 I drop Jitte then Angel. He drops his own Jitte and eventually O-Rings the Angel, but I have a Serendib out and my double Sowers steal anything relevant he plays.

Round 3 - vs UW CounterThopter w/ Terminus

Game 1: I mull to 6 and open a hand of Island, Chalice, City, Force, Manipulate Fate, Serendib. I drop Chalice @ 1 and we fight a FoW battle over it. Then I drop T2 Serendib. He goes T2 Stoneforge Mystic getting Sword of the Meek, T3 naturally flip Terminus, drop Sword of the Meek, T4 Thopter Foundry. I didn't draw another land the rest of the game.

-1 Jitte
+1 Revoker

*I'm not sure if I should've brought in the Propagandas or yard hate, but I feel if I'm needing the Propagandas, the match is already over. I think maybe I should've brought in 2 Crypts for the other two Jitte's?

Game 2: I go with the T1 Chrome Mox (Imprinting Griffin) into Fettergeist. My T2 Revoker gets Forced. He again goes T2 TF, T3 Stoneforge, T4 Sword and I lose the game shortly after that.

Not quite sure how to deal with the control matchup right now. Possibly should have brought in the Trinispheres? Smokestack has been good against control, historically, but these days control decks tend to make lots of tokens, which aren't as good. Anyone have any thoughts or advice on that?

lambert101
07-29-2012, 11:56 AM
Esper, try bringing in the propaganda against control. If they stick then the tokens should not be a problem. This may start to become my pet deck. Also throwing around the idea of etched champion in your revoker slot.

Esper3k
07-29-2012, 12:17 PM
Esper, try bringing in the propaganda against control. If they stick then the tokens should not be a problem. This may start to become my pet deck. Also throwing around the idea of etched champion in your revoker slot.

I was thinking about this the other day as well. In my Dragon Stompy list, I really liked the Etched Champions.

In this deck, I think they're a little harder to balance since we have to make sure to keep a high enough blue count for Force of Will.

If I cut 2 Fettergeists for 2 Champions, that still leaves 20 blue cards in the deck...

lambert101
07-29-2012, 03:37 PM
Agreed about the blue count. I just love the free hits with a sword.

Gloubi
07-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Here's the current list I'm messing with. I'm probably going to swap the Moltensteels out for Jace's, but I don't like too many UU casting spells in this deck.

// Lands
8 [ZEN] Island (3a)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [AVR] Fettergeist
4 [P12] Illusory Angel
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
2 [NPH] Moltensteel Dragon

// Spells
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [GPX] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
2 [IN] Manipulate Fate

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [6E] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 3 [V09] Trinisphere
SB: 2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [NE] Submerge

Are the Seats of Synod for Choke?

lambert101
07-30-2012, 12:52 PM
That and metalcraft.

Esper3k
07-30-2012, 12:58 PM
Yeah mainly for Metalcraft (Mox Opals), especially if you're playing Etched Champion, which I'm currently testing (-4 Fettergeist, +3 Etched Champion, +1 Revoker to the list I played this weekend).

I think them being resistant to Choke is a wash with being susceptible to Wasteland.

Gloubi
07-30-2012, 12:58 PM
That and metalcraft.

Ah, I didn't notice that mox opal. Thanks!

Water_Wizard
07-30-2012, 03:54 PM
*On a side note, with a deck like this, I don't tend to board in yard hate against Loam style decks since I feel that we should be trying to outrace them instead of durdling around with yard hate. I could be wrong though and am open to discussion on this.

*I'm not sure if I should've brought in the Propagandas or yard hate, but I feel if I'm needing the Propagandas, the match is already over. I think maybe I should've brought in 2 Crypts for the other two Jitte's?


Against the Loam match, I think it depends on the type of graveyard hate. Extirpate and to a lesser degree Surgical Extraction (only Surgical is relevant here, as you are not running black beside Mox Opal), I may bring in. Same with Relic of Progenitus. However, Tormod's Crypt is too easily broadcast and you are only going to get one Loam. Plus, they can hold a cycle land to cycle in response to cracking Crypt (that is why Extirpate is strong here, although not an option in mono-blue). You made the right move by leaving your Crypts out and focusing on winning through the skies.

In the Thopters match up, I think the card you really want is Aura Flux. I realize it's very limited and hurts you too, so it's probably not worth the sideboard slot. Given the current list, Revoker on Thopter Foundry is probably your best bet. I don't think Crypt is right here because they will just leave 1 mana open to sac any other artifact, including the Foundry to pull Sword back off of the Crypt activation. I would only run Crypt if I was worried about other graveyard recursion such as SCM, Academy Ruins, etc., but those seem very narrow and not worth diluting the deck. Propaganda seems like already losing, as you mentioned. Llawan? I think it's right to leave Jittes in here (as you did) because it allows you to consume 3 Thopter tokens with each swing (assuming they block). Depending upon the mana situation, you can outrace them.
It seems like your opponent ran well in these matches, so I don't think the UW mach up is as helpless as it looks.

Esper3k
07-31-2012, 08:46 AM
Against the Loam match, I think it depends on the type of graveyard hate. Extirpate and to a lesser degree Surgical Extraction (only Surgical is relevant here, as you are not running black beside Mox Opal), I may bring in. Same with Relic of Progenitus. However, Tormod's Crypt is too easily broadcast and you are only going to get one Loam. Plus, they can hold a cycle land to cycle in response to cracking Crypt (that is why Extirpate is strong here, although not an option in mono-blue). You made the right move by leaving your Crypts out and focusing on winning through the skies.

In the Thopters match up, I think the card you really want is Aura Flux. I realize it's very limited and hurts you too, so it's probably not worth the sideboard slot. Given the current list, Revoker on Thopter Foundry is probably your best bet. I don't think Crypt is right here because they will just leave 1 mana open to sac any other artifact, including the Foundry to pull Sword back off of the Crypt activation. I would only run Crypt if I was worried about other graveyard recursion such as SCM, Academy Ruins, etc., but those seem very narrow and not worth diluting the deck. Propaganda seems like already losing, as you mentioned. Llawan? I think it's right to leave Jittes in here (as you did) because it allows you to consume 3 Thopter tokens with each swing (assuming they block). Depending upon the mana situation, you can outrace them.
It seems like your opponent ran well in these matches, so I don't think the UW mach up is as helpless as it looks.

I agree on Loam. My experience has told me that yard hate is actually not that amazing against it since they can play around most hate with their cycling lands.

It also felt like he drew extremely well against me with Thopters. My current list is up to the full 4 Revokers between main & SB, which I'm fine with because they give me a little more disruption.

I had thought about Energy Flux, but man that hurts me so much as well!

zulander
08-02-2012, 06:07 AM
Here's my most recent list:



Creatures: 18
4 Illusory Angel
4 Serendib Efreet
2 Mulldrifter
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Fettergeist

Counter: 4
4 Force of Will

Draw: 8
4 Brainstorm
4 Manipulate Fate

Equipment: 5
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

Hawt Sawce: 2
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Mana: 23
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
7 Island

SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Gilded Drake
SB: 4 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 2 Back to Basics
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt




SB needs some work still, but that's up to your meta game. I run a ton of draw over the MD revokers/chalice and I'm happy. Holy crap is Manipulate Fate good in this deck. The first one is a draw 4, the second/third/fourth are amazing because they remove the unneeded crap from the deck in late game scenarios as well as provide shuffle for the jace and brainstorms.

Esper3k
08-02-2012, 07:45 AM
Here's my most recent list:



Creatures: 18
4 Illusory Angel
4 Serendib Efreet
2 Mulldrifter
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Fettergeist

Counter: 4
4 Force of Will

Draw: 8
4 Brainstorm
4 Manipulate Fate

Equipment: 5
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

Hawt Sawce: 2
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Mana: 23
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
7 Island

SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Gilded Drake
SB: 4 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 2 Back to Basics
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt




SB needs some work still, but that's up to your meta game. I run a ton of draw over the MD revokers/chalice and I'm happy. Holy crap is Manipulate Fate good in this deck. The first one is a draw 4, the second/third/fourth are amazing because they remove the unneeded crap from the deck in late game scenarios as well as provide shuffle for the jace and brainstorms.

Just wondering - how come you're running Seat of the Synod in your list? I'm not seeing any Metalcraft stuff nor Trinket Mage to fetch them? I think being Wastelandable is more relevant than being safe from Choke.

zulander
08-02-2012, 07:52 PM
Just wondering - how come you're running Seat of the Synod in your list? I'm not seeing any Metalcraft stuff nor Trinket Mage to fetch them? I think being Wastelandable is more relevant than being safe from Choke.

It was still in there after debating on using TFK/Trinket Mage. Just forget to take them out, no worries.

Honoluluicecaps
08-03-2012, 01:58 PM
Went 1-2-drop at my LGS weekly event last night (2-0 v. RUG Delver, 1-2 v. Pox, 0-2 v. Goblins) running this list:

Creatures (22)

4x Illusory Angel
4x Serendib Efreet
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Misthollow Griffin
3x Mulldrifter
4x Cloud of Faeries

Business (16)

4x Force of Will
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Manipulate Fate
3x Sword of Fire and Ice
3x Umezawa's Jitte

Mana (22)

4x Chrome Mox
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
10x Island

SB (15):

2x Faerie Macabre
3x Trinisphere
2x Propaganda
1x Tormod's Crypt
4x Submerge
3x Phantasmal Image

Pox is obviously a terrible matchup for us since they have very few 1 cmc spells (CotV at 2 is much better if you can get there) and the LD is bruuutal. In general, our deck mulligans terrible too, but we already knew that.

I got my face smashed by goblins, but that matchup in general doesn't seem too bad. It's another match where Chalice doesn't do a whole lot, and in my case while resolving an early Propaganda would have helped me a lot, the mana denial in that deck caused me a lot of problems. Also, in game two he had two Incinerators to clear the board against me and alpha strike for a billion (thanks Krenko), after I had mulled to five game one with a one lander against turn 2 Port.

On topic for deck construction: Seriously, Misthollow is so, SO fucking terrible. Last night was my third tournament running it, and I have felt the same way since the start. I wish it wasn't so shitty, because I love what we CAN do with it (Moxes, FoW, Manipulate Fate, etc.), but every match when I get in the position to play it for it's actual purpose, it's not scary enough to justify running for that cost. I'd rather run Sea Sprite or Weatherseed Faeries or Pestermite, and those cards suck too.

Esper3k
08-03-2012, 02:42 PM
I've liked Misthollow myself. It isn't a huge amount of pressure on its own without equipment, but none of our guys are. It's there to turn your early game card disadvantage into mid game pressure to finish off your opponent. If you haven't been putting early game pressure on them, then yeah it's not that great.

It's also another creature that white decks have issues dealing with since StP is so commonly played.

Still good to hear another viewpoint on it though.

zulander
08-03-2012, 03:53 PM
I'm not a fan of Chalice and Phyrexian Revoker builds at the moment, and I dislike chalice more. The deck needs brainstorm, play it. The only decks that fold to chalice at 1 are combo/rug, both of which don't even completely fold to it. Its reward is not worth the drawback of not playing brainstorm yourself and spell pierce out of the board.

As for misthollow he's been a beast in my testing. Being able to force/chrome mox early on without a drawback is an amazing feeling for the late game. That along with Manipulate Fate have upped the consistency very well. Along wit Brainstorm/Jace I rarely have to mull now because even if I can't land a turn 1 4/4 flier I still have some gas and draw to stay in the game instead of top decking Chalice of the Void or Phyrexian Revoker.

lebarion
08-03-2012, 03:53 PM
I've liked Misthollow myself. It isn't a huge amount of pressure on its own without equipment, but none of our guys are. It's there to turn your early game card disadvantage into mid game pressure to finish off your opponent. If you haven't been putting early game pressure on them, then yeah it's not that great.

It's also another creature that white decks have issues dealing with since StP is so commonly played.

Still good to hear another viewpoint on it though.

Although I agree that Misthollow Griffin is not a great card, I've found it to be good in this deck. I'm not playing the Mainpualte Fate combo, but even without it it is good to have a card I always want to pitch to FoW and Mox.
This deck has an enourmous amount of card disadvantage, and it is good to have something that amenizes it and still fits the deck's overall strategy.

EDIT: I've tried to replace Griffin and Chrome Mox by Wastelands and Mox Diamond, and preferred the Chrome Moxes and the Griffins.

Esper3k
08-03-2012, 04:23 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm loving Misthollow Griffin right now, but I'll readily admit that I could be in danger of getting too enamored of cool things.

For me, it's been great to really offset our early card disadvantage and turns it into mid-late game evasive creatures (which we want at that point anyways).

I think Chalice is actually pretty amazing right now and fairly important for the deck. Chalice @ 1 is needed to help protect our guys from StP, which is really nasty on us since we're usually burning early cards to power out a threat early.

Given that we don't run any fetch lands or really any shuffle effects, I don't think Brainstorm would be that great for us. If you want something like that, I'd consider 2 mana spells like Impulse (I've considered these, but wanted to mess with just a more threat dense build).

nitewolf9
08-03-2012, 05:13 PM
The list above should probably be running 5 - 6 Fetchlands with Brainstorm. This also offers the ability for a light splash if you want access to sideboard hate, but that probably isn't necessary. There is no reason not to run the fetches.

And if you are that worried about stp, run more mulldrifters. Misthollow/Manipulate fate also offsets that. The only real drawback to no chalice is the combo matchup, and that is mostly sneak and show/reanimator anyway. Sneak and show doesn't really care about chalice, and reanimator can be fought with your sideboard.

Esper3k
08-03-2012, 05:24 PM
The issue I've had with Mulldrifters is that at 3 mana, you'd usually cast a threat than a draw 2 spell. At 5 mana, I tend to want something a little more threatening (Jace, Equipment + Equip, etc.). It does play very nicely with SoLS, but SoLS isn't a great offensive weapon and I think if you get the recursion going, you've already won the game anyways.

I'm a pretty big fan of Chalice also for the RUG matchup. Shutting off their Brainstorms & Ponders really reduces the consistency of their deck, which buys you time to overwhelm them with your superior attackers.

Right now I'm also experimenting with a pair of Back to Basics in the board. Yes, the Seats I'm playing does make it worse, but I'd be bringing them in for matchups where it'd hurt them a heck of a lot more (and I still have 8 Basic Islands + 3 Chrome Mox + 2 Mox Opals).