Undefeated with Thopter Foundry

[pippo84]

Sunday I attended a 63 people tournament and guess what? I played with the Thopter Foundry + Sword of meek combo.

This was the first tournament I played with this deck and I decided it needs some changes. Here is the list I played:

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Daze
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of Meek
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Humility
1 Tezzeret the Seeker

6 Island
3 Plains
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Academy Ruins
1 Seat of Synod
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest

Side:

3 Meddling Mage
2 Back to Basics
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Engineered Explosives
1 RunedHalo
1 Aura of Silence
1 Wipe Away
1 Earthsworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre

Game 1: Against Zoo.
He Starts and plays a Nacatl. I play Engineered Explosives at 1 to slow him down from playing other critters. He then plays Qasali Pridemage and I Daze. A few turns later I play Counterbalance and then Sensei's Divinig Top (already exploded Explosives) but it's too late and I die very fast. The good news is that he just saw Counterbalance, so he thinks I am a CT-Goyf.
Round 2 I wait him to tap the 3 duals he has in play and then cast Back to Basics. I then land the combo and bring it home easily.
Round 3 Is pretty much te same as game 2. I play Pithing Needle on Qasali, I lay back to basics when he tapped 2 duals, then play Meddling Mage and combo out ftw.
Win 2-1

Game 2: Against a friend playing Enchantress.
First match is really long. I manage to have a Countertop Lock and I also use Enlightened Tutor to protect me from "difficult drops". He has Sigil of the Empty Throne in play and nothing else and I swing with tons of thopters and counter everything else.
Round 2 I keep a hand I should have mulled. Just 1 land, but with Top + Brainstorm. I see no land and I am forced to play Enlightened Tutor for Seat of Synod. He has a boardfull of everything and I loose terribly after another long game.
Round 3:Time is called in a few minutes so we don't evn play it (both are slow decks) and we draw.
Draw 1-1

Game 3: Against Thopter Foundry
First match he lands a Counterbalance before I do. There are many counterwars and I then play Humility because he has 2 Trinket Mages in play. He then casts another one and I slowly die taking 3 damage a turn.
Round 2 I land a fast Counterbalance + Sensei's Divinig Top and counter relevant stuff. I win with the combo afterwards.
Round 3 is totally nuts! Tons of counterwars and Engineered Explosives Exploding from both sides. Long game. I manage to get ahead and I have many lands, Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top, Thopter Foundry and Sword of Meek in play and he just has many lands. This was the situation at the last turn after time was called. I was at 35+ with full board and he was at 7 with just lands. Unfortunately game ends and we draw..
Draw 1-1

Game 4: Another Thopter Foundry!
This was the longest game of the day. It took approx. 50 minutes. The other players had finished 3 matches that we barely finished game 1. A game that is too long to explain. He counters everything and we both Explode Engineered explosives, but I have Academy Ruins in play and manage to go in recursion with the things he counters and meanwhile I counter some of his attempts to win. I finally land the combo and win soon after.
We just look at our hands of game 2 that time is called.
Win 1-0

Game 5: Belcher
I knew my opponent was playing Belcher because I saw him playing before.
I start and tutor for Counterbalance and then for Sensei's Divining Top. I have the drops I need on top of my library so I don't fetch. He attempts to go off, but I counter everything! I finally see both pieces of the combo and win in a few turns.
Game 2 he starts so I want a Force of Will in my hand. I mull to 5 because I didn't have lands at 6 and at 7 the hand was really poor against combo. He goes off on turn 1 even though I counter something with force of Will and creates 16 tokens. I die soon after.
Game 3 I start again and I counter something at the beginning. He has nothing in play and I have Engineered Explosives at 0. I then land Aura of Silence that slows him down and next turn Meddling Mage. As soon as I find Thopter Foundry he scoops.
Win 2-1

Game 6: Against Bant Survival
Who wins enters top 8!
Game 1 is really easy. I plow his creatures, then I get the combo soon and he dies really fast.
Game 2 I mull to 5 (no lands in 7-6) and lose after a long game of agony.
Game3 I keep a really nice hand with 2 lands. I don't find any for most of the game. At the end of the game (very long) he has 11+ lands and I just have 3. I slow him down and manage to cast the combo when I'm at 9-10 lives. I couldn't play with to lands because he had Daze. I let him counter some stuff before landing my combo. He also sided out removal against me. I have a Pithing Needle on Qasali Pridemage and a Meddling Mage naming Krosan Grip so he has no outs. He attacks and I chumpblock and gain lives, but I see no land to do something more (more tokens, play Vedalken Shacles and do some tokens) so time is called. We Draw.
Draw 1-1

Final result: 3 Wins, 3 Draws. Yes, undefeated, but...

If I could have been a bit faster against the mirror or if I wouldn't have been in screw the last games I would have entered top8.
Unfortunately the world is full of if..if.. if..

Anyways I'm happy with the result. The deck is valid, I will do some changes, but I will continue playing it because it's really fun and strong.

:tongue:

[Cthuloo]

If I could have been a bit faster against the mirror or if I wouldn't have been in screw the last games I would have entered top8.
Unfortunately the world is full of if..if.. if..


The truth is, you couldn't beat my prophecy :tongue:

Back on topic, as you also stated, the deck is really solid, but slower than a turtle with 3 legs. I think you definitely need another win condition to speed up your matches a bit, Elspeth being the most obvious choice. Also, Tezzeret looks pretty underwhelming. It can tutor for the combo, but both other abilities look rather useless.

Anyways, congrats for the result!

[Sims]

The truth is, you couldn't beat my prophecy :tongue:

Back on topic, as you also stated, the deck is really solid, but slower than a turtle with 3 legs. I think you definitely need another win condition to speed up your matches a bit, Elspeth being the most obvious choice. Also, Tezzeret looks pretty underwhelming. It can tutor for the combo, but both other abilities look rather useless.

Anyways, congrats for the result!


In my testing with the deck, I've found Tezz worthwhile as a 1-2 off as both a combo-tutor, but also a way to speed up your win or alt-win. His ultimate will turn your army of thopters into 5/5's even under a humility, so even having a few thopters more than they have blockers can be a precarious situation for them.

Elspeth is also a solid alt win, but I don't think she's worth completely replacing Tezz, but maybe complimenting.

[Cthuloo]

In my testing with the deck, I've found Tezz worthwhile as a 1-2 off as both a combo-tutor, but also a way to speed up your win or alt-win. His ultimate will turn your army of thopters into 5/5's even under a humility, so even having a few thopters more than they have blockers can be a precarious situation for them.

Elspeth is also a solid alt win, but I don't think she's worth completely replacing Tezz, but maybe complimenting.

I never played the deck myself, so you could very well be right about Tezz. In any case, from what I saw playtesting against pippo, The Seeker is not enough on his own. I don't know what could be cut for an Elspeth or two. Pippo was a bit unsatisfied with the TfK, but I can't really tell if he's right.

[pippo84]

I never played the deck myself, so you could very well be right about Tezz. In any case, from what I saw playtesting against pippo, The Seeker is not enough on his own. I don't know what could be cut for an Elspeth or two. Pippo was a bit unsatisfied with the TfK, but I can't really tell if he's right.

Tezzeret the Seeker is good, but making the thopters become 5/5 is a win more in most occasions. I used Tezzeret to seek for more utility slots during the tournament. (Sensei's Divining Top, Vedalken Shackles or the missing piece of the combo).
Yes, I was a bit unsatisfied with Tezzeret, Thirst for Knowledge and Daze.
Daze will be cut for sure, the rest still needs testing.

[obituary 95]

what did you board in against zoo other than b2basics

[pippo84]

what did you board in against zoo other than b2basics

Not so sure, I didn't write down what I sided in/out.

I am sure I sidedout Daze and Tezzeret because both are too slow (Daze slows you down).

I sided in 2 B2B, Engineered Explosives, Vedalken Shackles, Pithing Needle and 2 Meddling Mage.

Probably the other thing I sided out was Thirst for knowledge, but I'm not sure.

Anyways this deck is quite good against aggro with 5 plow effects + humility and the combo that gives you life + tokens. :laugh:

[MWR]

Nice deck and nice report indeed.

It is good to see Humility being played again (although I also abandoned UW Landstill) :tongue:

Just when playing the deck a bit versus a friend, I also disliked Daze. What do you think could replace it? I thought of Spell Snare, because it also deals with one of the few hate cards which you'll see preboard, i.e. Qasali Pridemage.

[pippo84]

Nice deck and nice report indeed.

It is good to see Humility being played again (although I also abandoned UW Landstill) :tongue:

Just when playing the deck a bit versus a friend, I also disliked Daze. What do you think could replace it? I thought of Spell Snare, because it also deals with one of the few hate cards which you'll see preboard, i.e. Qasali Pridemage.

Spell Snare is a card I will probably add. The point of replacing Daze is that you need to watch out your CC. So I will try Counterspell and also try Spell Snare.

QasaliPridemage was never a problem surprisingly. Pre-side I played 5 Plow effects and counters. After Pithing Needle came in. :tongue:

[Xaul Zan]

how do you just not die horribly to null rod ?

[JACO]

pippo84, thanks for the writeup. Did you feel that 21 mana sources was enough for the deck?


how do you just not die horribly to null rod ?
Q. Who actually plays Null Rod in Legacy tournaments?
A. No one.

[pippo84]

pippo84, thanks for the writeup. Did you feel that 21 mana sources was enough for the deck?


Q. Who actually plays Null Rod in Legacy tournaments?
A. No one.

Totally agreed.

21 mana sources was fine most of the time. I actually went in screw against enchantress because I kept a hand with one land that I should have mulliganed. And the last match against Bant was the only real match in which I was in screw.

21-22 mana sources is ok for this deck because I only played UW sources, no colorless mana etc (ok except for 1). Having a stable manabase with few colors allows a less land count in my opinion.

[Xaul Zan]

Q. Who actually plays Null Rod in Legacy tournaments?
A. No one.

yeah, a year ago people had stopped running leyline. now they run leyline again. two years ago people barely ran submerge, then zoo got popular. whats your fucking point, other than saying that the legacy cardpool is stagnant and things dont ever change ? if you're meta was suddenly filled with fruity thopter decks. would you not run null rod if it fit your decks SB, just because nobody else did ? yeah, good call.

[pippo84]

yeah, a year ago people had stopped running leyline. now they run leyline again. two years ago people barely ran submerge, then zoo got popular. whats your fucking point, other than saying that the legacy cardpool is stagnant and things dont ever change ? if you're meta was suddenly filled with fruity thopter decks. would you not run null rod if it fit your decks SB, just because nobody else did ? yeah, good call.

I think that Pithing Needle is much more "common" that Null Rod. And anyways if people side in Null Rod the sideboard can adapt. Those 15 cards are there for a reason.. :wink:

[Cthuloo]

yeah, a year ago people had stopped running leyline. now they run leyline again. two years ago people barely ran submerge, then zoo got popular. whats your fucking point, other than saying that the legacy cardpool is stagnant and things dont ever change ? if you're meta was suddenly filled with fruity thopter decks. would you not run null rod if it fit your decks SB, just because nobody else did ? yeah, good call.

Since when has white problems stopping artifacts? If everyone and his brother was playing the full set of rods, one could simply fit 4x disenchant in the board. Also, adding and alternative win condition would help also solving this (at the moment non existent) problem.

[Xaul Zan]

sorry, if a single 2cc colorless card could shut down my entire deck. I might consider the fact that my wins were based on the jank factor of just nobody playing legitimate hate in their boards yet.


Zack Wilson is the friend Baileyarch mentioned, losing in the final playing Aggro Loam. I laughed heartily when he dropped Null Rod in the Quarters against the Countertop Thopter deck. So much win.

*cough*

[Raptor]

sorry, if a single 2cc colorless card could shut down my entire deck. I might consider the fact that my wins were based on the jank factor of just nobody playing legitimate hate in their boards yet.



*cough*

yo dawg ! storm is bad 1! Ethersworn Canonist recks it
ur so right ! Pro bant is bad ..meek stone owns it!
merfolk is bad !11!1 Cephalid impress ruins it !


What's your point ? It's not because a card, that is almost not played, can shut down a deck that it means the deck is bad.
Plus he got some alternate win (tezzeret), way to get rid of it (Explosives, which he can tutor for and wipe away). Also, my little brother just told me that there is counter spells in the deck, and that they actually... counter spells. This means that null rod won't necesserly come on the board.



At the op, nice report. I've been working on a list of my own which is UWg and it seems to be kinda good too.

[Xaul Zan]

my point is that 2cc colorless can fit in a lot more SBs than the narrow examples you poorly mentioned. in addition to having zero effect on the decks that would run them as well. your examples are as inane and juvenile as saying to not run affinty cause of shatterstorm.

plus, what would be the point of tutoring for explosives ? null rod, RTFC. I heard knowing what a card even does is savage tech. also, your little brother sounds like an asshole. I guess this deck has a 100% ratio forever, because it has counterspells. and of course, counterspells are uncounterable.

[Cthuloo]

my point is that 2cc colorless can fit in a lot more SBs than the narrow examples you poorly mentioned. in addition to having zero effect on the decks that would run them as well. your examples are as inane and juvenile as saying to not run affinty cause of shatterstorm.

plus, what would be the point of tutoring for explosives ? null rod, RTFC. I heard knowing what a card even does is savage tech. also, your little brother sounds like an asshole. I guess this deck has a 100% ratio forever, because it has counterspells. and of course, counterspells are uncounterable.

I think raptor'e examples are pretty fitting, null rod is a narrow sideboard card. What decks doeas it hose? Storm combo can go off easily with ritual mana, or simply bounce hate. It's still decently effective, however. Belcher could even have some more problems. Then... what? Lets look at the decks to beat. Goblins? Uhm, no. Merfolk? Doubt it. Dredge? It stops led. For those who play it. Woah. Zoo? Nope. Any sort of survival? Difficoult. Tempo thresh? I'm not even sure they play any artifact. Aggro Loam? Well, in your quote it was this deck that was packing the rods, so I guess the answer is no. Countertop? Oh, yes! It stops Top! And maybe also explosives! And then... that's it. In the end it looks pretty narrow indeed.

Of course it "stops" thopter, ok, like crypt "stops" dredge. Like dredge adapted to beat the hate, so will do this deck should the problem arise.

[Xaul Zan]

well Im glad you can let pride cloud your judgment and claim his examples are fitting. all his examples are situational because they arent colorless and may even effect the decks whose colors can run them. except meekstone, and thats fitting because how many decks that could get away with running that actually would ?

and why do you list all the decks that it wouldnt effect ? those are the pretty much the same ones that would board null rod if this deck was heavily in their meta. so point being ?

and even if you chose board null rod against goblins or merfolk, what do you mean those two wouldnt be effected ? so again, null rod, RTFC. I heard knowing what a card even does is savage tech.

and if you didnt notice, dredge can blow out game 1 easily, games 2/3 are a lot different. they are an uphill battle fighting through hate. thopter/combo decks are already slow, you're not going to have a turn 3-4 win. how many unintentional draws do you think are going to happen cause you're busy fighting through hate.

so my point for like the 100th time, is that unless you have the singleton alternate wincon out when null rod hits, YOUR WHOLE DECK IS FUCKING DEAD, until you find removal for it. and that consists of two singletons out of your board, nice! dredge can get crypted and keep going. goblins can get pyroclasmed and keep going. you, you just fucking sit there, and pray you have some little flying 1/1s to chump block until you can find an answer.

[pippo84]

Oh, come on shut up. This is a discussion on a tournamen report not on Null Rod. If you want to talk about Null Rod open a [SCD].

Btw as I already stated there is a sideboard that can adapt to Null Rod if the problem will arise.

You too. - Bardo

[Xaul Zan]

Oh, come on shut up. This is a discussion on a tournamen report not on Null Rod. If you want to talk about Null Rod open a [SCD].

oh, shut the fuck up. all I did was ask a question and a group of jackasses came out of the woodwork to argue, when that wasnt my intent at all. if you want to talk about and play some janky pile thats your business. I really dont give a shit about you or your tier over 9000 deck, I was just making a point about how easy it is to beat.

Warning. - Bardo

[sclabman]

At the risk of dragging on the Null Rod discussion... I run a single Tropical Island and Krosan Grips in the board. The addition of green also enables EE to go to 3.

More on topic... I love this deck. I run pretty much your list, minus Tezzy and some other stuff for 3x Trinket Mage and 1x Meekstone. Trinket Mage helps us find Top, EE, (in my case) Meekstone, Pithing Needle, GY hate card of choice, and artifact lands for mana fixing. It's also a blocker when necessary, which is quite relevant in some matchups. Overall though, this deck is really fun to play and will be my mainstay for a while.

[pippo84]

I will also try the green splash. At the tournament I didn't feel it was necessary, but having Krosan Grip in the board is always nice!
I played against a deck with Trinket Mage, and I think he is strong as a tutor and as an additional beater I'm not so sold on them in this list. Enemy removal spells are totaly useless against this deck and I'm not sure that giving them some targets is good. Needs testing..

[Cthuloo]

oh, shut the fuck up. all I did was ask a question and a group of jackasses came out of the woodwork to argue, when that wasnt my intent at all. if you want to talk about and play some janky pile thats your business. I really dont give a shit about you or your tier over 9000 deck, I was just making a point about how easy it is to beat.

In a desperate hope you aren't just trolling, and referring to your previous post, please answer: why would you pack in your sideboard a card that is very marginally effective against the tiers of the format only to combat a deck which represents a very small percentage of the field? I don't have to read the card, I know it very well. Against gobbo and merfolks it stops vial, and maybe jitte. It doesn't look really that exciting. Needle looks superior, given this meta.

You're right that this deck needs another win con, however, this was pointed out in my first reply to the report.

@pippo and sclabman

About the green splash: do you think is worth it only for K. Grip? After all, white can deal pretty effectively with atifacts and enchantaments on its own. Something I thought a bit about, however, is the possibility of running a transformational sideboard, gambling on the fact that people will probably side out removal and playing 4xgoyf G2 as a b-plan. Do you think it's something viable?

[Xaul Zan]

I will also try the green splash. At the tournament I didn't feel it was necessary, but having Krosan Grip in the board is always nice!

good, run grip. even if the comment wasnt directed at me, its nice to see there is some consideration about what I said.


In a desperate hope you aren't just trolling, and referring to your previous post, please answer: why would you pack in your sideboard a card that is very marginally effective against the tiers of the format only to combat a deck which represents a very small percentage of the field? I don't have to read the card, I know it very well. Against gobbo and merfolks it stops vial, and maybe jitte. It doesn't look really that exciting. Needle looks superior, given this meta.

You're right that this deck needs another win con, however, this was pointed out in my first reply to the report.


would a punch in the dick help you believe me ? I kind of thought you were trolling with all the nonsense you posted. null rod shits on a lot of the same things needle does, but globally without having to target. killing multiple birds with one stone, so to speak. however, x4 goyf out the board sounds interesting.

Warning. - Bardo

[pippo84]

Adding Goyfs to the board will be tested when I'll try the green splash.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

NullRod is boss as hell, end of story. It shuts down so much random shit. And makes Combo easier for whatever deck you're playing it in.

[Xaul Zan]

NullRod is boss as hell, end of story. It shuts down so much random shit. And makes Combo easier for whatever deck you're playing it in.

NullRod is boss as hell, end of story. It shuts down so much random shit. And makes Combo easier for whatever deck you're playing it in.

[The Treefolk Master]

I'll put Null rod in my affinity sideboard, those counter top players wont know what hit them, muajajajaja.

Now, AJ Sacher had 1 tropical island main in order to reach 3rd colour for explosives and to be able to play 4 tarmogoyfs, 3 grips and 1 sylvan library in the sideboard.

Has anyone consdiered Baneslayer Angel in the sideboard. It's very expensive but it wins games on its own (post board your opponent has probably taken out the creature removal).

[xTrainx]

Just a thought - my friend played a deck like this with 2 Jace 2.0 in it as his alt win condition. Fatesealing is very powerful once you start tutoring up your combo pieces; because it allows you to go in with little to no combo protection. Just an idea.

[DragoFireheart]

A somewhat janky card suggestion:

Calcite Snapper.


He does a couple things for us:

- He has a fat ass, so he can chump lots of creatures from zoo and such all day.

- He has Shroud, so targeted removal from other decks continues to be dead.

- Land drops allows him to deal four damage, giving us a faster clock.

Draw Backs:

- Can't equip him.

- Somewhat slow at 3 mana.

- Has bad synergy with Humility and/or Moat.

[(nameless one)]

pippo84, thanks for the writeup. Did you feel that 21 mana sources was enough for the deck?


Q. Who actually plays Null Rod in Legacy tournaments?
A. Reanimator players

Fixed!