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DukeDemonKn1ght
04-19-2010, 01:20 AM
(So I posted this deck over in N&D by mistake at first. My apologies. I'm moving the thread to Casual where it belongs)

"Sacrifice The Robots for Profit and Fun!!"

4 Ornithopter
4 Myr Servitor
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Myr Retriever
4 Nether Traitor
2 Braids, Cabal Minion

4 Skullclamp
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Spawning Pit
2 Contamination (or maybe Recurring Nightmare??)
1 Smokestack
3 Grave Pact

4 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Volrath's Stronghold
17 Swamp

(This is specifically designed for multiplayer games, and my play group has some ridiculously overpowered decks floating around our multiplayer games... So this is why I feel comfortable four-of-ing Skullclamp and Disciple of the Vault.)

Some thoughts:

-I'm not totally sure about Ornithopter or Disciple of the Vault... A couple cards I could see (maybe) using instead of these guys are Glaze Fiend (in which case I'd work in artifact lands) and/or Moriok Rigger. Any other suggestions?

-I think I probably need the fourth Grave Pact, but I'm not sure what to cut. Thoughts?

-I'm not really sure, in a 4+ player game of multiplayer, if Smokestack is actually better than Braids. My line of thought is that once I play Smokestack, I basically make myself a target for everyone's next turn. Braids also undoubtedly makes me a target when I play her, but at least she starts fucking over my opponents right away. Although she is more fragile. I'm not sure which is better for multiplayer, I'd like some feedback on that.

-I'm not sure about Recurring Nightmare vs. Contamination. I think Contamination might actually be better, since I don't have that many worthwhile reanimation targets besides Braids. In fact, a lot of the shit in this deck reanimates itself, basically. If I use Braids instead of Smokestack, Recurring Nightmare might be more necessary. Any ideas?

-Some sort of "reset button," like Nevinyrral's Disk or Oblivion Stone might be worthwhile. Do y'all think it's needed?

Thanks y'all. Please keep in mind when critiquing, that this is intended for multiplayer games, with a relatively high level of power overall. My friends and me kind of like to play pretty overpowered multiplayer decks.

Vacrix
04-19-2010, 01:39 AM
I just noticed something. Buried Alive actually isn't that bad here, if it can be fit in. You can fetch 3 Servitor if you already have one in play (getting you 4 for a sweet, sweet engine), or you can fetch 3 Nether Traitor. Either way it will have a target. It also opens up possibilities of running some reanimation then with Recurring Nightmare.

Also, I'd suggest running Shield Sphere and/or Phyrexian Walker instead of Ornithopter (I know Ornithopter has evasion but once you have your engine going, the cost should be clear of blockers). They are great at stalling the game in the early turns while you set up. And nobody will waste removal on them either.

Also, as much as I like Disciple, its slow and you really can't take advantage of it that much. You should consider cutting it.

Now that I've thought about it, multiplayer is a very tricky sort of game. You can't paint yourself as a target, and Contamination does just that. Everyone who isn't playing black will say "get rid of that guy immeadiately". An opponent will surely counter it too. Stuff like Subversion is awesome because it isn't singling any player out in particular, while having marginal benefits for you. Same goes for stuff that makes everyone sac. If you go for one player, he will try to take you out. If you play as the guy that makes everyone sac shit, then your opponents can try to capitalize on this advantage and attack other people because keeping you alive is an asset to some players. Conclusion? You should probably run a few Subversions. Especially when you get 2 out, you can be gaining 8 life per turn and damaging each player while playing removal that affects every player. It looks better and better the more I look at it.

Now that I see this:

Please keep in mind when critiquing, that this is intended for multiplayer games, with a relatively high level of power overall. My friends and I kind of like to play pretty overpowered multiplayer decks.
Its VERY difficult to make something powerful and budget/casual. Even if you are unbanning something like Skullclamp for your group, I have a feeling that your deck is really underpowered right now. Whats your view on this, as you know your group better than I do.

EDIT:
Epochrasite. When you sac it, it comes back bigger. When you reanimate it with Recurring Nightmare, its a 4/4. There are obviously better targets for reanimation but its certainly not too powerful for casual play and it feeds into the sacrifice strategy.

DukeDemonKn1ght
04-19-2010, 01:55 AM
I just noticed something. Buried Alive actually isn't that bad here, if it can be fit in. You can fetch 3 Servitor if you already have one in play (getting you 4 for a sweet, sweet engine), or you can fetch 3 Nether Traitor. Either way it will have a target. It also opens up possibilities of running some reanimation then with Recurring Nightmare.

Also, I'd suggest running Shield Sphere and/or Phyrexian Walker instead of Ornithopter (I know Ornithopter has evasion but once you have your engine going, the cost should be clear of blockers). They are great at stalling the game in the early turns while you set up. And nobody will waste removal on them either.

Also, as much as I like Disciple, its slow and you really can't take advantage of it that much. You should consider cutting it.

Now that I've thought about it, multiplayer is a very tricky sort of game. You can't paint yourself as a target, and Contamination does just that. Everyone who isn't playing black will say "get rid of that guy immeadiately". An opponent will surely counter it too. Stuff like Subversion is awesome because it isn't singling any player out in particular, while having marginal benefits for you. Same goes for stuff that makes everyone sac. If you go for one player, he will try to take you out. If you play as the guy that makes everyone sac shit, then your opponents can try to capitalize on this advantage and attack other people because keeping you alive is an asset to some players. Conclusion? You should probably run a few Subversions. Especially when you get 2 out, you can be gaining 8 life per turn and damaging each player while playing removal that affects every player. It looks better and better the more I look at it.

Now that I see this:

Its VERY difficult to make something powerful and budget/casual. Even if you are unbanning something like Skullclamp for your group, I have a feeling that your deck is really underpowered right now. Whats your view on this, as you know your group better than I do.

I think it's somewhat balanced for my group, although maybe on the low end. Honestly though, besides a couple points that need ironing out, I think you might be underestimating how powerful this deck's engines are. Nobody really plays dedicated graveyard hate in multiplayer games, and this deck is designed to be able to easily win an attrition war against multiple people at the same time.

Subversion is definitely worth considering, but I kind of like Loxodon Warhammer better in this deck. Subversion might be worth using in addition to that though.

I think you're right about cutting Disciple of the Vault. I think Ravager could be really good, but I don't want to spend the money at the moment. (EDIT: It would also be really silly to cut Disciple of the Vault and then add Arcbound Ravager.) So I'm not entirely sure what to use. Innocent Blood could actually be pretty cute in this deck, but I have no way to recur it, which kind of sucks. And also, I think I should probably replace Disciple with another creature.

Shield Sphere might actually be a really good idea for multiplayer. That card is a supreme annoyance, and I could pretty easily get it back with a Retriever. I wouldn't ever replace Ornithopter for it though, because it would leave me vulnerable to fliers. And it can't attack. I could see using maybe 2 of them though.

I think this deck could use a big beatstick creature, but I can't think of any black or artifact creatures that would exactly fit the bill. Platinum Angel could be kind of cute, especially if I'm using Recurring Nightmare.

Buried Alive could be pretty good in this deck, but I'm not really sure it's necessary to be able to tutor. I may end up throwing in 1-2 copies after I initially get this list together and start playing some group games. It becomes a lot more attractive if I have a huge creature to tutor for and then reanimate it with Recurring Nightmare.

Any ideas for "huge beatstick" creatures that would work in this list?


EDIT: Arcbound Reclaimer or Solemn Simulacrum actually seem potentially pretty good. Maybe one of them as a two-of?

Vacrix
04-20-2010, 03:02 AM
Huge beatstick? Well you are constantly sacrificing stuff so Tombstalker looks pretty attractive. Ideally, though, you'd want something with Shroud, since one of 4 players can aim a removal spell at it. Unfortunately, black doesn't have such options. Honestly, Subversion looks like a reliable win con. It gains you life while it slowly kills everyone. All you have to do is protect it by making your opponents sacrifice stuff. Beaters may not be necessary.

EDIT:
I just realized Tajuru Preserver is going to get boarded against you. You ought to have some targeted removal other than Jitte.

Carabas
04-21-2010, 06:13 PM
Salvage Titan or Nim Devourer seem like they fit with the style of the deck, but I'm not sure if they're powerful enough.

Vacrix
04-22-2010, 03:21 AM
Salvage Titan looks decent, especially since Spawn tokens are artifacts. Nim Devourer is meh.


Also, DukeDemonKnight, Sengir Autocrat Provides you with 4 bodies, seems pretty dam good, especially if you can start reanimating it with Recurring Nightmare and get back more tokens. Since sacrifice is part of the cost, I think you can sacrifice all the tokens to various effects, and then sacrifice Autocrat to Recurring Nightmare, because its part of the cost, you can return Autocrat to play thus getting back 3 tokens to fuel more sacrificial madness. Give it a shot, it looks bomb.

noodle
04-23-2010, 10:42 AM
First up, nice to see a competitive multiplayer deck.

If you're looking for black multiplayer beatsticks Kokusho is always a winner, especially with sac outlets. Dread is also pretty solid for MBC. 6/6 evasion that that has a defensive side is pretty solid.

I agree with what other posters have said about Contamination. It just paints a target on your head. If your keen your a sac outlet that is also offensive run Eldrazi Monument. Works great with skullclamp as well.

DukeDemonKn1ght
06-16-2010, 05:18 AM
So I just became aware of Mortician Beetle today and it made me want to dig up this list (which I still haven't finished getting together) and revise it. Check it:

4 Ornithopter
4 Myr Servitor
4 Mortician Beetle
4 Nether Traitor
4 Myr Retriever
3 Braids, Cabal Minion

3 Grave Pact
2 Spawning Pit
1 Blasting Station
1 Smokestack (or maybe 1 Recurring Nightmare to recur Braids, but I like Stack better I think, since it recurs with Retriever)

4 Skullclamp
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Loxodon Warhammer

4 Blinkmoth Nexus (might cut a couple for swamps if the triple black for Gravepact doesn't happen consistently EDIT: using this instead of Mishra's Factory because this deck is short on flying creatures and Blinky works better with Skullclamp (felt like that needed to be explained :P ))
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
16 Swamp

Ok. Thoughts? I realize this thread probably hasn't seen *any* traffic recently, but this deck is kind of a pet project of mine. I just want to get the blueprint as awesome as possible before I order the few cards I'm missing.

DukeDemonKn1ght
06-17-2010, 09:43 PM
Come on guys... I wants me some feedback. I seriously feel like this is about the coolest multiplayer deck I've ever designed. Like I've tweaked it almost perfectly to my specifications. Just needs me that last little bit of critique before I build the damn thing and start dominating the local kitchen table scene.

One thought that's occurred to me is to maybe put in one Grafted Wargear, just since between Traitor and Retriever triggers, there are a lot of silly things I could do with it. I'm not really sure what to cut for it-- maybe Spawning Pit since I don't really strictly need the second copy?

Also, should I try to work in one Kokusho, the Evening Star to have a trump card if it turns into a long attrition game? (This would probably require running Recurring Nightmare over Smokestack...)

rockout
06-17-2010, 11:17 PM
I used to run a similar deck in multiplayer a while back. I used krak clan ironworks + myr retriver x 2 + genesis station to make infinite 1/1s.

DukeDemonKn1ght
06-18-2010, 03:25 AM
Genesis Chamber definitely has the potential to be busted in multiplayer. But I think it's honestly a terrible idea for this deck, because Grave Pact/ Braids, Cabal Minion is kind of the centerpiece of this whole strategy and it makes no sense to be giving my opponent free 1/1 tokens to be able to sacrifice when I'm trying to wipe their board turn after turn.

On the other hand, that's a pretty funny combo you mentioned there.

EDIT: @Vacrix: I really like Sengir Autocrat but I have no idea what I would cut from this latest list for him. Also, if I were to fit one more random bomb into my deck right now I would probably want it to be Kokusho over him, since Kokesters is pretty much the ultimate sacrifice/recursion target for multiplayer.

DukeDemonKn1ght
06-23-2010, 04:08 PM
So, judging from the resounding lack of feedback, I guess I'm gonna assume this deck is perfect the way it is (the list I posted in post #8) and go ahead and order the rest of the cards I'm missing.

I'd really like to hear some critique/insight, but hey, if it just ain't gonna happen...

DuxDucis
07-10-2010, 09:38 PM
I was randomly looking up Myr Retreiver stuff on Google and came across this thread.

Did you give any thought to Ashnod's Altar? It seems pretty nutty with a couple Myr Retrievers and a Disciple in play. Could it possibly fill the Recurring Nightmare/Contamination slot?

Wonders
07-27-2010, 05:39 AM
Here's a few ideas:

phyrexian tower
culling the weak
pawn of ulamog
cabal therapy/thoughtseize
fecundity (green splash)