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View Full Version : Wait, what does that thing do again? - A tournament report from Nightmare



Nightmare
05-17-2010, 09:22 AM
Since the spoiler for Rise of the Eldrazi hit, we've been trying to break the set. Specifically, we've been focusing our attention on Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The guy screams "cheat me into play" and we could think of plenty of ways to do it. After a bunch of work on using a Reanimator shell, substituting Shallow Grave and Goryo's Vengeance for the reanimate package, and 2 Emrakul for the creatures, we decided that there were still too many drawbacks to that shell for it to work. Then we looked at Survival. This still has promise, but it plays too much like a Survival deck, with an Emrakul tacked on. It's not that its bad, it's just not the direction we wanted to take. Not combo-oriented enough.

So, we looked into the Show and Tell route. Third turn Emrakul still seems like good stuff, especially since it gives your opponent just enough time to be ravaged by the annihilator. But, stuck in the back of our minds, there was another card, and another old deck, that we found hope in. And boy, did it live up to our expectations and more. Without further ado, I give you the talk of the 5/15 Vestal event - Aeon Bridge.

Aeon Bridge - A potentially broken Legacy deck by Nightmare


4 Show and Tell
3 Worldly Tutor
3 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 See Beyond
4 Stifle
4 Thoughtseize
1 Wipe Away

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

2 Chrome Mox
4 Mosswort Bridge
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Forest


SB
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Blazing Archon
1 Progenitus
1 Duress



That's right, bitches. MossNought is back, with a vengeance.

As this was the deck's first real go in a large tournament environment, I expected to do mediocre, but hoped for more. In the end, I went 5-3, with some pretty exceptional wins and losses both. I'm very impressed with the deck, although I would make a few small changes here and there, and I learned a few lessons on boarding and the do's and don'ts of the deck throughout the day. I'm confident that I would be able to improve on that record, should I replay the day again with the new knowledge.

Round 1 - Reanimator
Game 1 consisted of a turn 1 Trop, turn 2 Bridge (Worldly Tutor with trigger on the stack), Turn 3 Dreadnought - activate bridge, make a Time Walk and a 15/15, and swing. Pretty much the nuts right out of the gates. Exciting way to start off the event.
I make the first mistake of the day immediately after. As it turns out, you don't want to board any of your guys in against Reanimator, no matter how enticing they may seem. If you really need one of them, then Progs is the only one worth grabbing. I mistakenly boarded in Iona, and my opponent proceeded to Thoughtseize it and reanimate it. I was still in, should I have drawn a Dreadnought or Worldly Tutor, but he reanimated a Realm Razer (going to 1) to lock out my bridge, and prevent me from smashing.
Game 3 was uneventful, as I mulled into Emrakul, Nought, CMox, 2 Brainstorm, Sea. I played Sea and passed. He Seized me, I brainstormed in response, which he Dazed. He took the other BS, and I was way out.
0-1

Not the best start to the day, but I felt like I learned an important lesson this match, and I firmly believe that without that mistake I would have easily taken the match. This deck has an excellent matchup with Reanimator, despite first glances, and I'm about 65-35 so far in testing.

Round 2 - Zoo
Zoo should be a near bye. They are trying to goldfish you, and have no disruption for your deck at all. As long as you don't shit the bed, there's really nothing they can do. This round, things went according to plan, and Emrakul took the game down in both games 1 and 3. In game 2, my deck decided not to play magic, and even a turn 1 Dreadnought wasn't enough to keep me up to speed. They can win games, as I said, but it's not a favorable matchup for them. Important cards - Path to Exile (on Dreadnought), Qasali Pridemage (again, Nought), and Knight of the Reliquary (if they play Karakas).
1-1

Round 3 - Lam Phan's pile
I ask around if anyone knows what Lam is playing, and I hear "tempo something." Great! Game 1 on the draw I keep a 1-lander with multiple draw spells. It also has Nought Stifle. After Lam plays fetch, go, I try to play around the Stifle, but manage to never see another land. Eventually he draws and resolves one of the three threats in his deck and "wins." Realistically, my deck loses more than him actively winning. Game 2 is similar, except I see three lands, and he sees 1 wasteland, 1 sinkhole, 1 smallpox, 2 stifles, and a Hymn to Tourach. Nice deck. I don't think I can really handle that much manabase disruption. One or two Waste effects is usually fine - especially if I can find a Chrome Mox, or if I can fetch a basic land. That much disruption paired with counterspells and discard is a pain for this deck.

I did have one totally sweet play where I played a Show and Tell with Daze as my only card in hand. Lam Forced pitching Force. That was tight.
1-2

Now all but out of contention, I'm playing for top 16 or for knowledge and pride. I decide to stick it out and see if the deck is worth keeping.

Round 4 - Reanimator
Let's try this again, but with the right sideboarding.
Game 1 I Seize him and counter enough spells so that he's down to one card in hand. I play S&T with force backup, and his last card is Blazing Archon. Nice. I have approximately 100 turns to try and find either the Wipe Away or one of three Lim-Dul's Vaults. My opponent watches as I brainstorm 4 times, See Beyond twice, and use three Mosswort Bridges to dig about 40 cards deep in my deck, and see none of them. I'm forced to Thoughtseize myself to make Emrakul shuffle the graveyard back (as I have no more dig left, and two bad BS cards on top), and then See Beyond and BS one more time, still finding nothing. He eventually Exhumes Inkwell, and I make this awesome play -
I will return Dreadnought. I will sacrifice my Emrakul to shuffle my library again. He attacks with Inkwell and with Archon. I activate Mosswort Bridge, and put a second Emrakul into play and BLOCK THAT SHIT!!!!!!111!!!

Only he doesn't swing with the Archon, and I lose two turns later, still not having found the Wipe Away or the LDV.

Game 2 goes much more according to plan - only not really, as he Thoughtseizes me, and then Reanimates Terastodon, eating three of my lands. But wait! That gives me enough dudes to swing through his fatty and kill him. Whoops.
Game 3, my deck decides to show up, while his does not. I duress him on t1 and see three fatties, lands, and a Mystical. I choose mystical. On my turn 2 I draw Faerie Macabre, and start taking his fatties out with Seizes. He goes for another Mystical and I let it resolve, he gets Exhume. When he plays it, I Macabre his two guys and put my Faerie into play. SO Savage. The little Faerie that could goes a long way, until I find a Nought and activate two Bridges - 1 putting Emrakul in, and 1 playing the stifle for the Nought trigger! Take another turn, swing 29.
2-2

Round 5 - Counter top Thopter
Game 1 - my opponent doesn't de-sideboard from last round, and gets a game loss. Whoops. To be fair, my hand was the stone nuts. Matt Mcnally was behind me, he can attest. I wasn't losing that game.
Game 2 - I open with a Duress, and see a bunch of blue cards. I think I took a Brainstorm. He plays a land, and passes. I play a Bridge, and put an Emrakul under it. He plays a counterbalance. I play a Show and Tell. That's about all she wrote.
3-2

Round 6 - ANT
This matchup is a joke. You've gotta understand, I play with Bryant Cook. It's not like I don't have the combo matchup in mind. If you are any good at pattern recognition, you'll notice my trend of playing UBg decks that run a million counterspells, discard, and a clock. That's really bad for storm combo decks. Sometimes I even put counterbalance in just to really plow my dick up their ass.
This player is usually on Merfolk, and I was a little nervous about it. Sometimes he plays Dredge, which would also be less than stellar. Instead, he opens with Sea, go. Nice. I make the following plays (with Force backup) - Turn 1 Thoughtseize. Turn 2 Thoughtseize, Bridge (Putting Thoughtseize under it). Turn 3 Show and Tell Emrakul. Turn 4 Swing, Activate bridge.
Game 2 - I keep a loose six after a mull - 3 real lands, Bridge, Emrakul, Force. He opens with Duress and takes Force. On my turn, I draw Show and Tell, and play Bridge (finding Emrakul blind). He plays a land and a top. I draw Daze, and play a trop. He Mysticals EOT, and tops upkeep, then passes. I draw a Nought. Play it, activate bridge, attack for 15. That's right bitches. Runner Runner Runner.
4-2

Round 7 - Zoo
SWEEET! Another bye! If I win next round, I may sneak into top 8! Or not.
Game 1 opens with Steppe Lynx. I don't mind, I have Seize into turn 3 Emrakul. I seize and see 3 fetchlands, 2 Pridemage, and Goyf. I take Goyf, which changes things. I could have played a t2 Nought, but I didn't have a third land for my Show and tell. Had he only had 1 Pridemage, I take that and go for the Nought. Having 2 means he still has one for my nought. It may have been the right play to take a Pridemage anyway, since he's likely to play the Goyf turn 2 and it gives me at least 1 turn to draw a Force for the second Mage. I think I screwed this up, but I'm not really sure. Remember, I was looking for turn 3 S&T, and I had to LDV for the land. Anyway, he plays a fetch and sacs it, and a Mage, and swings 5. On my turn I pass, setting up the EOT LDV. He plays another fetch and another mage, and swings 6. I play the S&T and he puts a Nacatl into play and wins on his turn 4, through my blocker. There's not a whole lot I could have done there. He basically had the nuts.
Game 2 went a little differently. I managed to Seize Daze and force his gas, until he was left with no creatures and one card in hand. I proceed to Brainstorm, See Beyond, fetch, etc, to try and find a Dreadnought, Worldly, or LDV, to hit the bridge. Again, my deck does not deliver. He plays a Pridemage when I'm at 15, and I choose not to Force, since it would make me discard my last Brainstorm. I figure that gives me 5 more turns to find a Nought. I do not find it.

A disappointing way to end my chances - losing to "nut draw, shit the bed." Still credit where it's due, as my opponent made no mistakes and played his deck to its best outs. I hate losing matchups where I really shouldn't, but that's why Magic isn't chess. It's not like I didn't hit runners in the previous round.
4-3

Round 8 - ANT
Game 1 I keep a hand with Force, Show and Tell, Worldly, Daze, and some lands. Pretty good, I hear. My opponent plays an Underground sea and says go. I draw Seize and use it. I see LED and a bunch of storm cards. Yippee! I take something stormy (let him walk into using LED, see if I care), and pass. He tries to win and I stop him. He draws a card and passes. I play a land and pass. He draws another card. I Worldly for Emrakul. I play a land and S&T. He reads Emrakul and scoops.
Game 2 I do something similar, except he plays a Bob and a Top, and my Bridge made an Iona.
5-3


So, all in all I got to do some really fun, really broken shit, and make some people have pretty awful days. Walking around the event, I heard a lot of bad beats stories, and most of them were my deck. I like that. This deck has the ability to just win the game out of nowhere, which is something Reanimator has a much harder time doing. While they need to pre-emptively set up a win in order to topdeck an Exhume or what have you, a lot of times that leaves them vulnerable to a counterattack or to yard hate. This deck completely circumvents that hate, and allows you to quite often topdeck a tutor or a Nought and win the game on the spot - even with an empty hand. Not a lot of decks can claim that kind of power.

As far as the list goes, it was totally tight, with the exception of the few times I didn't draw the card I was looking for, forever. To that end, my intention is to sub a fourth LDV for the third Worldly. LDV finds any card at instant speed, which gives it a little more flexibility over the Worldly. I found myself boarding some number of Worldly's out each game, and LDV was always solid. I think that will help to alleviate the problems I was having with the "can't find Wipe Away" problem, and still gives me plenty of ways to both set up Bridge and find the creatures.
In the sideboard, I'm not convinced of the worth of Relic of Prog. It seems good since you aren't running Goyf (more on that in a second), but it's too slow for the decks you need it against. I'd rather have Macabre against Reanimator, and I'd rather have Crypt against Ichorid. To that end, I will be splitting those slots into one and one of each, putting it to 2 Macabre, 3 Crypt. The third Crypt may eventually turn into a second Duress. The card just rocks.

The three creatures in the board are there for specific reasons, when they are better than Emrakul - Iona for Combo and Mono-colored matchups (burn, MBC, etc). The Archon is for Merfolk and Ichorid. The Progenitus is for decks like Lands (Karakas) and for Counterbalance Control decks that run shitty cards like Sower of Temptation and Gilded Drake.

On Goyf - We originally had him in the deck. In testing, I found that he took the deck in a direction you didn't want to go, and you relied on him early to stop attacks - basically he was wall of goyf. He made the deck more aggro-control, and like Survival, that's not what we wanted to be. Removing him made us able to make the combo more effective, and about a turn faster. He really just got in the way, and often felt like a blank when we drew him on turns 3-5. If you forget the fact that we're running Forests, and pretend the deck is Reanimator without a grave dependancy, it makes much more sense to eschew him.

Anyway, that's the deck. It was awesome. I loved playing it, and had more fun than I have in a long time at an event - as well as more than anyone else at the tournament. Give it a shot, tell me what you think.


Edit - Forgot the obligatory props and slops.

Props:

Rise of the Eldrazi. You gave me two fun cards to play with, and a ton for EDH. Yay for See Beyond.
Whoever that dude in the top 8 was that Retainers'd in an Emrakul. Winner winner.
Di and Herbig for being the major contributors to this decks' development.
Matt McNally for preemptively being excited to play another one of my piles.
All of my most gracious opponents. You were all great and took me winning (and losing) in stride.
The Annihilator mechanic


Slops:

My single opponent who I do not like. You know who you are.
Drawing fourty cards and not seeing a 4-of. Twice.
Qasali Pridemage
Dreadstill. Which this is not.
Naysayers.
Dave Gearhart, for not showing up to bear witness to the second coming.

jazzykat
05-17-2010, 10:34 AM
Wow, what a fun looking deck. Reanimator had big doods, this has BIG DOODS! Seriously though, do you think this is better than reanimator or is it because it is different and not terribly well known at the moment. Grave hate is very strong vs. reanimator but this opens you up to different types of 2 for 1s?

Nightmare
05-17-2010, 10:57 AM
I think every deck has pros and cons. If you look through the event, there were only 2 games where I played Dreadnought and Stifled its trigger. One was against zoo on turn 1, and one was during a turn where I had already put Emrakul into play. StifleNought opening you up to 2-for-1s isn't really worrisome, since it's not even near plan A. This deck circumvents most of the hate leveled at Reanimator, and puts arguably better creatures into play - and post-board, can put the same game-winners into play. I won't say its better, as the reanimator deck is obviously one of the format's best, and consistent as hell, but this deck provides a parallel strategy that is also very much viable.

jazzykat
05-17-2010, 11:25 AM
Then do you think there is room for a reanimator hybrid with this mosswort bridge?

Nightmare
05-17-2010, 11:31 AM
Why would you want to do that? You're giving up consistency from reanimator to make the deck into something else, or you're removing power from this deck to increase its vulnerability to yard hate.

jrsthethird
05-17-2010, 05:52 PM
I like this deck, glad to see it turned out well!

Sims
05-17-2010, 06:40 PM
My disappointing round 3 was next to you playing Lam, so I got to witness both decks and would have much rather been playing your games than my own. This deck looks fun as hell.

Tammit67
05-17-2010, 09:36 PM
I played Lam in round 7. While he only ran 3-4 Tombstalkers, the rest of the deck looked like a beating.
Very interesting deck BTW

rockout
05-17-2010, 09:44 PM
Definitely an interesting take on the show and tell combo using mosswort bridge. Nice deck.

GThompson
05-17-2010, 11:01 PM
This deck looks awesome. If I have the testicular fortitude, I'll run it in one of the SCG Opens coming up.

Aleksandr
05-18-2010, 05:36 AM
I tried it a bit on MWS yesterday. I found two weaknesses:

1) I fought with manabase pretty often. I think that 17 lands + 2 Moxes is maybe not enough, as some of our spells cost three mana (S&T, Nought+Bridge), not to mention if we want to leave mana open to counter Daze.

2) This is more a question of testing... How can I solve Mosswort Bridge and LDV? I cannot find how to play a face-down card from library, and LDV opens me to additional serious trouble. Only work-around I found is this one:

- I play my hand face down, than I look at the top four cards of my library, draw one of them, send the rest to bottom, play the drawn card face down, put it under Bridge, put my hand back to hand. ^^
- I play my hand face down, than I look at the top five cards of my library. I either order those cards and return my hand to my hand, or I put those cards on bottom, look at another five cards, lose one life, etc. Than I draw the top five cards, shuffle the rest of library, put the drawn cards back and return my hand to my hand.

Am I doing it wrong?

Pippin
05-18-2010, 06:10 AM
2) This is more a question of testing... How can I solve Mosswort Bridge and LDV? I cannot find how to play a face-down card from library, and LDV opens me to additional serious trouble. Only work-around I found is this one:

- I play my hand face down, than I look at the top four cards of my library, draw one of them, send the rest to bottom, play the drawn card face down, put it under Bridge, put my hand back to hand. ^^
- I play my hand face down, than I look at the top five cards of my library. I either order those cards and return my hand to my hand, or I put those cards on bottom, look at another five cards, lose one life, etc. Than I draw the top five cards, shuffle the rest of library, put the drawn cards back and return my hand to my hand.

Am I doing it wrong?


Hm, can't you hold shift and drag top cards from your library? That should put them as face-down from library, without "drawing" them.

Aleksandr
05-18-2010, 06:23 AM
Thanks, I'll try it!

EDIT: It works.

Nightmare
05-18-2010, 07:48 AM
It is possible that you would want to run another land in the deck, although the only time it was really relevant to me was when I was fighting Lam Phan's disruption. I wasn't ever really lacking mana sources, and I didn't mulligan more than twice on the day. Perhaps you could board one for the matchups where you really want to see lands (prison decks, tempo decks). If so, I suggest it over the third crypt.

Another subtlety I forgot to mention was the fact that you can win through a resolved Iona on any color, since your combo is all colorless. I beat a turn 2 Iona on blue against Di in our testing - Turn 1 Bridge, turn 2 Worldly for Nought, turn 3 Emrakul swing.

And of course, I realized I never explicitly laid out the combo, for those it isn't obvious to:

Mosswort Bridge's ability allows you to play the hideaway-d spell if you control any number of creatures of power 10 or more. Dreadnought allows you to satisfy this quota for 1 mana. You play the Nought, then with the sacrifice trigger on the stack, activate the bridge. You cast Emrakul for free, and take another turn. When Emrakul resolves (and he will, since he's uncounterable - no one realizes that), you don't pay for the Nought and let it die. Who cares? You win on the free turn.

On that note, the following cards are worthwhile under a Bridge:

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Stifle
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Or any of the boarded creatures.
The Stifle and Nought both let you satisfy the played Dreadnought's trigger - either by countering it, or giving you 12 power to sac - similar to the old Vial trick from Cephalid Breakfast. Show and Tell is also value in a pinch.

Just some random thoughts I've had since I wrote the report.

Gerry T - Play it, you've got the nuts. I'd love to read your thoughts on it after an event!

Skeggi
05-18-2010, 08:09 AM
Nice report, looks like a fun deck indeed! Make a primer?

Finn
05-18-2010, 09:31 AM
Love the idea. I loved Mosswort combo also.

I am betting that your manabase is several lands too weak, though. You only faced one deck with mana disruption of any kind. Merfolk and perhaps even Goblins might have enough to set you back just enough turns to stomp you. I bet you can shore that up considerably and retain your dominance over combo and Zoo. But...

I would not be caught dead playing independent two-card combos that don't overlap (Show and Tell/Nought is useless, Stifle/Emrakul same). I am of the opinion that Emrakul is strong enough that you might actually be able to go the mana ramp route. Getting the extra turn when he comes into play is so huge against Merfolk, Goblins, Zoo, Renimator, etc. You can actually get to 15 in green by turn 3 or 4 in a lot of different ways. I imagine it can be done colorless as well. That would be the shit.

EDIT: Ehh, maybe not. But it is fun to speculate. Anyway, I want to say that it is always entertaining to read your stuff Adam. You know what readers are interested in seeing and the wit is appreciated.

Nightmare
05-18-2010, 09:46 AM
Love the idea. I loved Mosswort combo also.

I am betting that your manabase is several lands too weak, though. You only faced one deck with mana disruption of any kind. Merfolk and perhaps even Goblins might have enough to set you back just enough turns to stomp you. I bet you can shore that up considerably and retain your dominance over combo and Zoo.As I said, it's possible that I'm a mana source short. If so, I can see at least one or two slots where you could slide an additional land in, although I didn't see the need this weekend. I'm comfortable with that change.

I would not be caught dead playing independent two-card combos that don't overlap (Show and Tell/Nought is useless, Stifle/Emrakul same). I am of the opinion that Emrakul is strong enough that you might actually be able to go the mana ramp route. Getting the extra turn when he comes into play is so huge against Merfolk, Goblins, Zoo, Renimator, etc. You can actually get to 15 in green by turn 3 or 4 in a lot of different ways. I imagine it can be done colorless as well. That would be the shit.Well, I wouldn't exactly call them 2-card independent combos. I don't think you're giving the side-uses of the Nought and Stifle enough credit. Stifle is exceptional in protecting your Bridges from hate, and gaining you the turn or two you'd need to survive to activate it. Nought obviously activates the Bridge. Certainly, they are not comboing with Show and Tell, but that's your plan B, most of the time you'd rather be activating Bridge. Note that all of the things that actually stop Emrakul (permanent based solutions) are shut down by Stifle, as well. Even in the dis-synergy, there is synergy. And, should you find yourself stuck with some random dead card in hand, you get access to 7 Brainstorms - three with fetching attached - to get rid of them. I admit it seems awkward on paper, but in my experience it has not been the case.

Finn
05-18-2010, 12:28 PM
Mosswort Bridge's ability allows you to play the hideaway-d spell if you control any number of creatures of power 10 or more. Dreadnought allows you to satisfy this quota for 1 mana. You play the Nought, then with the sacrifice trigger on the stack, activate the bridge. You cast Emrakul for free, and take another turn. When Emrakul resolves (and he will, since he's uncounterable - no one realizes that), you don't pay for the Nought and let it die. Who cares? You win on the free turn.
Yeah, I just realized that you can play Emrakul off of a Bridge. That is clearly what you want. You were right. I did not give it enough credit at first glance.

Please work out the mana issues so we can read about this deck winning. I love it.

Nightmare
05-18-2010, 12:41 PM
Posted a primer: here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17610-[Deck]-Aeon-Bridge)

DrJones
05-18-2010, 01:09 PM
Congratulations!

That was the only part I could decide after rewriting my post thirty times.

I think I have some ideas to make that list stronger. I will have to test something.

ReAnimator
05-18-2010, 01:22 PM
What are your thoughts on running Ponder, it would seem on paper to help out your mana and your mosswarts, while being more versatile than worldly in some situations. See Beyond is nice and all but unlike normal reanimator you want your big dudes in your hand most of the time, do you only want to shuffle them away when you have multiples?

Nightmare
05-18-2010, 01:27 PM
Originally the deck ran Ponder in the See Beyond slot. I gave See Beyond a shot at one of our local events and was really impressed by it. I would consider them to be relatively similar in application, but I prefer the pseudo-Brainstorm over the pseudo-Worldly. I admit Ponder is better at digging for specific cards, however.

nitewolf9
05-18-2010, 01:43 PM
This deck seems to have many LOLs. I will have to give it a shot sometime in the very near future.

Arne
05-18-2010, 02:38 PM
This looks like a lot of fun to play... You forgot one 'prop' in your report... the one for yourself for building such a phat deck!

_O_

jrsthethird
05-18-2010, 04:55 PM
How do you feel against decks that run Wasteland? Stifle helps by being able to counter it but having to set yourself up to use an ETBT nonbasic as part of your combo seems very vulnerable to everyone's favorite Tempest uncommon.

On a side note, it's nice to see a deck that can drop a fatty and laugh at Maze/Chasm lock.

Vacrix
05-18-2010, 09:48 PM
Round 3 - Lam Phan's pile
I ask around if anyone knows what Lam is playing, and I hear "tempo something." Great! Game 1 on the draw I keep a 1-lander with multiple draw spells. It also has Nought Stifle. After Lam plays fetch, go, I try to play around the Stifle, but manage to never see another land. Eventually he draws and resolves one of the three threats in his deck and "wins." Realistically, my deck loses more than him actively winning. Game 2 is similar, except I see three lands, and he sees 1 wasteland, 1 sinkhole, 1 smallpox, 2 stifles, and a Hymn to Tourach. Nice deck. I don't think I can really handle that much manabase disruption. One or two Waste effects is usually fine - especially if I can find a Chrome Mox, or if I can fetch a basic land. That much disruption paired with counterspells and discard is a pain for this deck.
Might your deck screwing you in this round be alleviated had you been running Ponder instead of See Beyond? 1cc cantrips can get you out of sticky situations when you are only sitting on 1 land.

Jak
05-18-2010, 10:03 PM
Pros of See Beyond
-Gets rid of chaff in hand
-Gets you two new cards

Cons of See Beyond
-Sorcery
-Costs two
-Digs two deep
-No CA


Pros of Ponder
-Costs one
-Digs three cards deep

Cons of Ponder
-Sorcery
-No CA
-Doesn't fix up cards in hand

I dunno, I guess they are equal, but Ponder seems to be better in a combo-oriented deck since it is faster and digs deeper.

Vacrix
05-19-2010, 01:09 AM
On paper I agree they are pretty much equal, but I think Ponder makes one land hands more keepable. 1cc cantrips are great setup cards. Nightmares game might have gone differently had his See Beyonds been Ponders instead (or at least that was my question to him).

Mosesthecoot
05-19-2010, 11:55 AM
Very interesting build. S&T is just getting more and more stupid.

"Whoever that dude in the top 8 was that Retainers'd in an Emrakul. Winner winner."

Isn't this unachievable? When Emrakul goes to gy, you shuffle your gy into your library. Did he happen to do that with the trigger on the stack?

malden
05-20-2010, 12:33 PM
One very important interaction to remember is that you can actually activate Mosswort Bridge with just a Dreadnaught, you don't even need the stifle! Cast Dreadnaught, with the sac ability on the stack, activate bridge to cast Emrakul. Realizing this allows you to update a few things to the main deck. First I would add a 4th Worldly Tutor because they make sure that mosswort always has the right creature under it and you can always find dreadnaught if you have a stifle in your hand to put it out as a win condition. I would also add a 4th Lim-Dul's Vault. I would try these changes, -3 See Beyond, -1 Wipe Away, -2 Chrome Mox, +1 Lim-Dul's Vault, +1 Worldly Tutor, +2 Mystical Tutor, +2 land. The Mystical Tutor would allow you to find about 50% of the deck. I will try out these changes this weekend on MWS.

Sims
05-20-2010, 12:52 PM
"Whoever that dude in the top 8 was that Retainers'd in an Emrakul. Winner winner."

Isn't this unachievable? When Emrakul goes to gy, you shuffle your gy into your library. Did he happen to do that with the trigger on the stack?

This isn't really the place for discussing it, but the way it works is you need to survival up your Retainer and play out the retainers.You then have to survival up your emrakul if you don't have it, and survival it away to get whatever.... the trigger goes on the stack, and in resopnse to teh trigger you sacrifice loyal retainers and bring Emrakul into play. You then shuffle your graveyard into your library.

GexxX
07-04-2010, 09:08 PM
Congrats.

I really like the Deck Idea. I am quite new to Legacy, but I thought about playing stifle-nought at my first tourney.
But this Deck seems quite strong with the Abuse of Emrakul (which is propably the best Creature EVER) and the option to still be Noughty. ;)

Thanks for sharing this. It seems like a nice Control shell without the Dreadstill-Toolbox, but better smashing abilities.

by the way: What are the worst matchups in testing? Merfolk and Goblins should be quite bad, right?

Worldslayer
07-05-2010, 12:18 PM
@Ponder discussion - Overall Ponder does seem stronger, as with the Show and Tell plan even shuffling away Emrakul isn't always a correct play. The ability to change late-game chaff like Daze into real cards still seems good, though. Overall, with the game in question ("Lam Phan's Pile" g2) Ponder only seems better because a single mana was open. I'm not convinced a 1cc 3-dig cantrip would make a one-land hand a keeper versus a deck running that much mana denial regardless of how many you have.

However, with the See Beyond / Ponder question up in the air -

You run 26 blue cards, well over the minimum for force, making color close to a nonissue. This being said, was Dark Confidant ever considered in this slot? Or is the risk of hitting an Emrakul too great without top and/or not immediate enough?