PDA

View Full Version : W_Tempo_Thresh takes 3rd at Premier Coins and Collectibles! Lansing, MI



mossivo1986
05-31-2010, 12:52 AM
Figured I would write this up since I had a little time today. Premier Coins held their bi-weekly legacy tourney today. 15-20 people this time. Good to see new people come as well as all the college kids now that school is up. Anyways since I’ve had such good success with the deck in the past I figured I would run it into the ground until it doesn’t win no’ mo.

Listing u:
W_Tempo_Thresh

// Lands
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 Tundra
3 [B] Tropical Island
1 [GUR] Forest
1 [GUR] Island
1 [GUR] Plains
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
2 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary

// Spells
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NE] Daze
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [M10] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg

As usual I was expecting many copies of merfolk/ goblins/ zoo. This particular meta-game however held 2 copies of 43land.dec (budget, and non budget) ANT, Dredge, Bant survival and some other cute stuff. I’m really happy with the current meta-game as it’s all over the place and really offers a lot for learning the format.

So from my usual sideboard I switched over -1 EE, -1 relic, +2 Teeg for the ant matchup. It also has some credibility in other match-ups that I was unsure of. On to the report!

R1. DnT (Matt)
G1. I win the roll
We open up and I take a small advantage with a Rhox War Monk versus Serra Avenger action. I mis-tap my mana which allows him to equip a sofi and swing for 7. I untap and cast qasali and that’s basicly all she wrote. KoTR seals the action with his big bad ass. Curb stopping commences.

SB
-4 daze
- 1 spell pierce

In
+2 k grip, +2 path +1 ee

G2.
He goes vial, mother, grunt, avenger, karakus eot mangara. My hand was a wee bit slower. My turn to bite the curb.

Editors Note: When I side boarded for game2 I completely forgot about DnT running mother of runes. It’s been such a long time since I’ve played against the deck that I just didn’t think about it. The combination of sofi, jitte (more than likely) Vial and O ring made me opt for grip then needle. It was a mistake because mother is more important than o-ring obviously.

SB
-2 k grip

In
+2 needle

G3.
We both build up; me with a board position of 2x Noble 1x Needle (Vial) 1x Goyf 1x Qasali. He has 2x vial 2x mother. I draw ponder and see qasali, ee, forest. I grab the qasali and leave the ee on top. I swing in for 2 points since his 2nd mother is summoning sick. I pass and he has no action. I drop EE at 1, scrap his board, he fakes a big ugh…. I swing right into a… wait for it…. Wing shards. I get through for 2. What mutual ro sham bo. We keep going and I get ahead again with knight, goyf when he drops mother which meets P2E followed by a grunt which chews on my knights lands. We end up going to time. He was holding STP. I feel like I was in complete control of the game, but it happens. I played a little slow so it happens.

0-0-1

R2. Berserk Stompy

G1. I win the roll
Flood the ground, huge vendillion clique with 3x exalted triggers takes it.

SB
-3 daze

In
+2 Path
+1 EE

G2.
Same as game one, but I do it with goyf.

1-0-1

R3. (Led-less) Dredge Chris Piperzak

G1. I win the roll
Dredge Curb Stomp.

SB
-4 Qasali
-1 Knight

In
+1 ee
+2 Relic
+ 2 Teeg

G2.
He takes a slow hand. I slow roll with t1 relic, double daze, waste, and the works. He cries like a baby. 

G3.
We both mull to 6, I keep trop, flooded, daze, force, 2xstp. He keeps. I end up going to time with noble hierarchs getting into the red zone from 20-7. Any threat pretty much wins me the game. At the end I’m holding stp, force and can hard cast them. Damn mana flood.

1-0-2

R4. RB Goblins
G1. I win the roll.
I daze a lackey, rebound with goyf for his second lackey. He attempts weirding which I force. I drop noble, he drops lackey #3, I drop rhox. Vendillion at his next rounds eot chews on incinerator and takes it home.

SB
-4 daze
-3 spell pierce
-1 vendillion

In
+4 blast
+2 path
+2 needle

G2. I come out with a fast hand to his slow one. He weirdings me a couple times but stalls on land. Last threat is rhox and it takes it home. He has no chance with back to back wastes keeping him at 2 lands.

2-0-2

R5. Mono U Faeries (man land control) Dan Buzzy
G1. I win the roll
I lead out trop. He leads island, I play noble on t2 and pierce his force with he forces back. I play land and drop knight. He draws and lets it resolve. He misses a 3rd land drop, and I pseudo waste-lock him out following his mishra, muta, muta, draw. Goyf, knight gets there.

SB
-4 daze

In
+2 path
+2 Needle

G2.
As we shuffle and keep our mutual buddy Chris leans over and takes a dive for the floor. He convulses into a seizure. It was the scariest shit I’ve seen in a long time. I help hold him as he recovers and someone calls an ambulance. He recovers and is taken away. We are all still in shock and disheartened. I won’t go any further but it was really just awe full. Dan rushes to Chris’s house and gives his mom his stuff, comes back and we finish the match. We are both sick in the pits of our stomachs.

I end up pulling g2 out with a nice vendillion clique legendary rule which I got thanks to his vial’d in vendillion which removed path and gave me a better answer. He blocked ¾ goyf with no creature in graveyard with double muta vendillion. I legend rule the vendillion, remove his sower, and rip his 2 muta with my now 4/5 goyf. He scoops. We leave quickly afterwards.

3-0-2

Overall the game-plan worked. Noble hierarch shined all day long as it does. Vendillion was m.v.p for the day, as was path, EE, needle out of the sb. Chris ended up being ok. He has some issues he needs to work out and that’s as far as I’ll go, but we all feel very fortunate to know that he’s sleeping well tonight.

[B]Props:
-Thank you Sparrow Hospital and the ambulance vehicle that showed up so quickly. It really must have been like 3-4 minutes tops. Incredible response time.
-Everyone for reacting so quickly. Moving that 15 foot table, taking care of our friend in a time of desperate need. Thank god he wasn’t alone.
MTG props
- Vendillion for being a HOUSE all day long. Daze for being better then it normally treats me.
- Buzzy for the incredi-fail that was the vendillion clique. I seriously was in shock it worked so well. 1 in a million bro.
- Brad for picking up ant
- Me for going 8-8 in top4's, splits, or wins with W_Tempo_Thresh. Best deck i've ever piloted.

Slops
- Tonia (secretary) and Angie (nurse) for telling me Chris wasn’t a patient because you didn’t hear his last name correctly even when I gave you each letter followed by an example b as in boy etc. Angie for lying to me. As a nurse you should be ashamed.
MTG slops

- Beserk stompy 1. G2 electing to draw, 2. For invigorating a kavu predator in response to an stp when at 18 life without much threat on the board. Thank you 2-1.
- (me) Tapping incorrectly in g1 of Death and Taxes, completely getting hammered for 7 when I only needed to get tapped for 3. It could have cost me.
- Brad for losing after resolving Ad Nauseum twice once at 14 and another time at 16. Learn to use Iggy mo-fo.
- (me) not siding in needle for mother of runes against DnT. I should simply know better than that.
- (me) Dredge Not shuffling away the ponder t3 even though I knew it would cost slow my win way down. It ended up costing me a tie.

Aleksandr
05-31-2010, 04:47 AM
Nice report, buddy. Shame that the Hierarchs cost that much, I'd build the deck in a minute.

Hope your friend will be ok!

Felidae
05-31-2010, 05:59 AM
Nice report, what did you side in against RB Goblins @ round 4 ? (i assume no Vials ;) ).

mossivo1986
05-31-2010, 06:06 AM
hahaha. Thats funny. I didn't realize I wrote it that way obv. lol.

Against goblins the proper sideboard is

Side in
2/2 blast
2 path
2 needle

Side out
4 daze
3 pierce
1 clique

Tinefol
05-31-2010, 07:26 AM
Path is like the worst possible removal against goblins, since you generally do not want them to ramp up their mana ever. Besides, exchanging a random 2/2 (or even 1/1) for a land doesn't look like an awesome deal. Since you have 4 blasts in the S/B, that already already amounts to 8 postboard answers for lackey, which is really enough.

Considering you also bring the needles in, I'd leave the Dazes in instead of siding PtE. Daze always does at least something against goblins if they don't have an active vial (and both you and goblins run wastelands to make it active). Like Dazing a Ringleader or Matron is priceless. Dazing Warchief is fine too. However pathing them would really suck.

mossivo1986
05-31-2010, 01:37 PM
You become the control deck post-board against goblins tinefol. Path is an adequate card agaiinst goblins whereas daze looses you tempo that your probobly not making up due to gempalm incinerator and the like.

Tinefol
05-31-2010, 02:44 PM
Playing the control role against goblins, without having any source of card advantage, or game-breakers (like Plague, or Humility) is a losing proposition. Path to Exile is card disadvantage at that. Also, you are not going to remove everything he has, since Goblins have a ton of creatures. You need to stop his card advantage, like Ringleader, or Matron, or SGC. Path doesn't do that, Daze does.
You don't lose tempo by Dazing the Ringleader, since it costs 4, and you most likely already had 3+ land drops.
Anyways, we are yet to agree on anything, so w/e.

mossivo1986
05-31-2010, 03:16 PM
Playing the control role against goblins, without having any source of card advantage, or game-breakers (like Plague, or Humility) is a losing proposition. Path to Exile is card disadvantage at that. Also, you are not going to remove everything he has, since Goblins have a ton of creatures. You need to stop his card advantage, like Ringleader, or Matron, or SGC. Path doesn't do that, Daze does.
You don't lose tempo by Dazing the Ringleader, since it costs 4, and you most likely already had 3+ land drops.
Anyways, we are yet to agree on anything, so w/e.

Your sources of card advantage are your creatures. They create advantage 2 fold. 1 by being larger then your opponents and thus creating pressure in the red zone, and 2 forcing them to play on their back foot. Once you have established yourself in the game it should be a matter of time. You sideboard in path because it's better than daze at doing what you want. You want something to dead with lackey,piledriver, goblin chieftan, and others. Think about it this way in my current build preboard the permission package looks like

4 Force
4 Daze
3 Spell pierce

My removal package

4 Stp

Post board it looks like this against goblins

permission

4 force
(4 blast)

Removal
4 stp
(4 Blast)
2 p2e

Now your plan was to not side in p2e at all.

Permission

4 force
(4blast)
2 daze

Removal
4 stp
(4 blast)

Against goblins the stronger answer is always going to be the removal spell. Especially when you already have 8 answers to ringleader, 12 answers (not counting p2e which would be 14) to lackey (which daze is only if your on the play).

It's not that I want to disagree with you Tinefol. I have no personal vendetta with you. I just think you don't understand completely what this specfic match-up is all about. I've played it countless times and this is what it takes to win. If you'd like to test on mws i'd love to go a couple rounds with various different decks.

pi4meterftw
05-31-2010, 08:26 PM
Your sources of card advantage are your creatures. They create advantage 2 fold. 1 by being larger then your opponents and thus creating pressure in the red zone, and 2 forcing them to play on their back foot. Once you have established yourself in the game it should be a matter of time. You sideboard in path because it's better than daze at doing what you want. You want something to dead with lackey,piledriver, goblin chieftan, and others. Think about it this way in my current build preboard the permission package looks like

4 Force
4 Daze
3 Spell pierce

My removal package

4 Stp

Post board it looks like this against goblins

permission

4 force
(4 blast)

Removal
4 stp
(4 Blast)
2 p2e

Now your plan was to not side in p2e at all.

Permission

4 force
(4blast)
2 daze

Removal
4 stp
(4 blast)

Against goblins the stronger answer is always going to be the removal spell. Especially when you already have 8 answers to ringleader, 12 answers (not counting p2e which would be 14) to lackey (which daze is only if your on the play).

It's not that I want to disagree with you Tinefol. I have no personal vendetta with you. I just think you don't understand completely what this specfic match-up is all about. I've played it countless times and this is what it takes to win. If you'd like to test on mws i'd love to go a couple rounds with various different decks.

Besides path being card disadvantage, you're also asserting that bouncing a land is a horrendous loss of tempo, but your opponent getting a land ahead=no loss of tempo?

Lol okay w/e. I like winning, do you like winning? The only explanation for your terrible arguments that I can find is that you and I have different goals. But my goal is to win. Are you trying to like: do as well as possible while restrained to the cards suggested by the retarded masses?

I dunno, your points are pretty fraudulent. Like how is it that creatures are all at the same time card advantage, and then also bigger than your opponent's, and then also make your opponent play on the back foot? The last two are synonymous, and the first is a lie.

Also, why isn't this list running fathom seer, wayfarer, mother of runes etc.? Fathom seer has awesome synergy with noble hierarch, and as I'm sure you're aware with wayfarer. Wayfarer and knight do the same thing, and both have huge targets on their foreheads, but wayfarer only costs you 1 when it dies, instead of 3.

Amon Amarth
05-31-2010, 09:41 PM
Grats on your finish. How have the Spell Pierce been working out for you? Do you have a lot of spell based decks in your meta or do you just find them better than Snares and Co.?

I'm not too sure your board plan against Goblins is very solid. 6 of you removal cards are card advantage for them. Yeah, it does buy you time to beat down it's not like they can't deal with your creatures between Weirdings, Incinerartors and Scourgers. This is especially true postboard if they are running Perish.

mossivo1986
05-31-2010, 10:15 PM
Besides path being card disadvantage, you're also asserting that bouncing a land is a horrendous loss of tempo, but your opponent getting a land ahead=no loss of tempo?

It depends on how you define the word "tempo." Not establishing a game-plan and setting yourself back a turn, only to get hammered the following turn by a undercosted threat and a gempalm incinerator is in fact a loss of tempo. Goblins has all the tools to fight W_Tempo_Thresh's gameplan pre-board. Path while card disadvantage is part of what keeps goblins from critical massing you, by keeping your threats in the red-zone applying pressure and not letting them establish their game-plan. Daze in the opposite sense sets you back, not allowing you to establish the board position. daze is also dead if an opponent lands a vial whereas creature removal is only dead if you've already lost the game.


Lol okay w/e. I like winning, do you like winning?

I do in fact like winning, thus why I won that match-up. Overall I dropped 2 games in 5 rounds, and the match-ups I lose games were ones I tied because we ran out of time because I couldn't draw business (threats). I would say that theres really nothing I could have done to improve that aspect of the game as I run a pretty high threat density. I would also consider that a pretty successful tourney.


The only explanation for your terrible arguments that I can find is that you and I have different goals. But my goal is to win. Are you trying to like: do as well as possible while restrained to the cards suggested by the retarded masses?

Opinions are like assholes pi4meterftw. This is something that more then one asshole has about your deck and your arguments, just as much as mine. I'm glad your goal is to win pi4meterftw, lord knows initially I was in your corner back when you played the sc5k. I like to win as well. Little fact for you, i'm 8 for 8 attempts to performances with this arch-type in tournaments. I've played all over the are. I've finished every single time in the top 4, split in the finals, or won the whole damn thing. Yes I like to win.

To answer your other question no I don't care what the masses say. If you read my thread which i'm quite sure you do, then you would see that I hardly agree with anyone who posts on them. :) We have more then one similarity.


I dunno, your points are pretty fraudulent. Like how is it that creatures are all at the same time card advantage, and then also bigger than your opponent's, and then also make your opponent play on the back foot? The last two are synonymous, and the first is a lie.

Yeah I totally blew that explanation. I'll re-write it when I have more time. Thank you for catching that as I wrote it lazily.


Also, why isn't this list running fathom seer, wayfarer, mother of runes etc.? Fathom seer has awesome synergy with noble hierarch, and as I'm sure you're aware with wayfarer.

Fathom seer does have some synergy with Noble, but fathom seer isn't a stand alone threat, and realistically is a terrible card.


Wayfarer and knight do the same thing, and both have huge targets on their foreheads, but wayfarer only costs you 1 when it dies, instead of 3.

So does that mean because Tarmogoyf costs two mana and has a huge target on its forhead that wayfarer is better for this deck because it costs me 1 mana instead of two? How about rhox? Vendillion, Qasali? Persolly I feel like your comparison is a terrible argument. All of my threats are stand alone threats, which are in turn designed to be aggresive. Your creatures are designed to create advantage in another way. You tend to be establishing and blocking, while I tend to be attacking and establishing.

I think my threats are better for my arch-type, and in general. Obviously your threats are better for your deck as your arch-type doesn't splash green :).

Thanx for the post, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

mossivo1986
05-31-2010, 10:21 PM
Grats on your finish. How have the Spell Pierce been working out for you? Do you have a lot of spell based decks in your meta or do you just find them better than Snares and Co.?

Spell pierce is sick. I find pierce is much stronger with the game-plan I have presented in my primer.


I'm not too sure your board plan against Goblins is very solid. 6 of you removal cards are card advantage for them. Yeah, it does buy you time to beat down it's not like they can't deal with your creatures between Weirdings, Incinerartors and Scourgers. This is especially true postboard if they are running Perish.

Overall from a true match-up perspective I don't think RB Goblins is the most optimal list of goblins out there. My list may not be particularly amazing at fighting against that spacific boarding plan, but if my opponent is trading threat density for removal i'm alright with that. the more time they spend worrying about my threats and not establishing their board position, or vice versa "not both" is more time I have to interact with them and play correctly.

pi4meterftw
06-01-2010, 08:00 AM
It depends on how you define the word "tempo." Not establishing a game-plan and setting yourself back a turn, only to get hammered the following turn by a undercosted threat and a gempalm incinerator is in fact a loss of tempo. Goblins has all the tools to fight W_Tempo_Thresh's gameplan pre-board. Path while card disadvantage is part of what keeps goblins from critical massing you, by keeping your threats in the red-zone applying pressure and not letting them establish their game-plan. Daze in the opposite sense sets you back, not allowing you to establish the board position. daze is also dead if an opponent lands a vial whereas creature removal is only dead if you've already lost the game.

I do in fact like winning, thus why I won that match-up. Overall I dropped 2 games in 5 rounds, and the match-ups I lose games were ones I tied because we ran out of time because I couldn't draw business (threats). I would say that theres really nothing I could have done to improve that aspect of the game as I run a pretty high threat density. I would also consider that a pretty successful tourney.



Opinions are like assholes pi4meterftw. This is something that more then one asshole has about your deck and your arguments, just as much as mine. I'm glad your goal is to win pi4meterftw, lord knows initially I was in your corner back when you played the sc5k. I like to win as well. Little fact for you, i'm 8 for 8 attempts to performances with this arch-type in tournaments. I've played all over the are. I've finished every single time in the top 4, split in the finals, or won the whole damn thing. Yes I like to win.

To answer your other question no I don't care what the masses say. If you read my thread which i'm quite sure you do, then you would see that I hardly agree with anyone who posts on them. :) We have more then one similarity.



Yeah I totally blew that explanation. I'll re-write it when I have more time. Thank you for catching that as I wrote it lazily.



Fathom seer does have some synergy with Noble, but fathom seer isn't a stand alone threat, and realistically is a terrible card.



So does that mean because Tarmogoyf costs two mana and has a huge target on its forhead that wayfarer is better for this deck because it costs me 1 mana instead of two? How about rhox? Vendillion, Qasali? Persolly I feel like your comparison is a terrible argument. All of my threats are stand alone threats, which are in turn designed to be aggresive. Your creatures are designed to create advantage in another way. You tend to be establishing and blocking, while I tend to be attacking and establishing.

I think my threats are better for my arch-type, and in general. Obviously your threats are better for your deck as your arch-type doesn't splash green :).

Thanx for the post, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Are you still using that retarded crutch where you say everything is your personal opinion? Just come out and say it: you think I'm wrong. You don't think that I disagree with your opinion, you obviously are trying to actually assert I'm wrong. Even that is a much more admirable position than "I feel like IMO u r wrong!"

In that case, yes I am saying that tarmogoyf is disadvantaged relative to 1 mana cards that your opponent would be as desperate or more to remove. Do you see me playing tarmogoyf? I don't get what your point is. My argument is correct as presented (I even gave reasons) and I adhere to it with no inconsistencies (as seen by the fact that I don't play creatures where if removed, it's bad for you.)

Wow, you won a few tournaments? Weren't you behind that retard wave where people were like: a deck can't be good until it wins a million tournaments, yeah! And now you're like: I won 8 out of 8 times, gg!

I mean I'm not retarded enough to think that's not an accomplishment the way my critics have been, but I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. Of course, you being a hypocrite isn't an argument in my favor, but it certainly calls for you to reflect on your own understanding of how things work.

Also, regarding your claim that I misunderstood the contents of this thread, it seems like you only tried to refute one person's claim: Tinefol's. Path to exile is horrible, but everybody runs it, hence my comment. It's incredibly suspect that you're so happy to give goblins a land when it's such a mana hungry deck, but you wouldn't even *bounce* a land to counter a ringleader. The analog of the drawback corresponding to path would be like if you had to sacrifice a land, so besides being up an entire +1 card in hand, daze also lets you pay nothing, relative to the same tempo swing of PTE.

A land is definitely as good of a card as any other. And then putting a land into play is even better than a card. You should have to pay mana to convert a card in hand to a land in play.

But if PTE said your opponent draws a card, nobody would play it. Or how about if it said "You sacrifice a land?" Then nobody plays it. I guess players have some sort of a mental disconnect with their opponent and don't really "feel" the draw back of passing them a free win.

say no to scurvy
06-01-2010, 08:02 AM
what the hell, get out of this thread

mossivo1986
06-01-2010, 11:17 AM
Are you still using that retarded crutch where you say everything is your personal opinion? Just come out and say it: you think I'm wrong. You don't think that I disagree with your opinion, you obviously are trying to actually assert I'm wrong. Even that is a much more admirable position than "I feel like IMO u r wrong!"

I was attempting to give us some rogerian style argument. You argue a point, which I then counter and eventually find a middle ground, and vice versa. I have no intention of this getting nasty. I don’t really care what you think however because your attempting to compare our decks, which obviously is a mistake.

1. I play good cards

2. I play a very aggressive tempo control deck in a format of very aggressive decks of all forms. On the opposing end of the spectrum you play a very passive resource aggro control shell, which attempts to stall the format before it establishes its winning board position.

3. As I clearly stated before you don’t play green. Maybe if you did your comparisons would work more as you'd most certainly be more aggressive, but you don’t and so there really is no comparing our arch-types in regards to card selection or match-up analysis. I think you and I can agree that is a fair assessment.

I suggest you look into Frogboy’s articles on starcity games about the legacy format. Maybe you can get an idea of what I’m talking about in his articles on Tendrils, Dredge, and format as a whole. Not to say you don't know legacy, but that I think we are on two separate levels of thinking. These are very solid articles and should give you a solid example on why your strategy is not only different, but it’s less efficient in comparison to what my deck is trying to do (win).


In that case, yes I am saying that tarmogoyf is disadvantaged relative to 1 mana cards that your opponent would be as desperate or more to remove. Do you see me playing tarmogoyf? I don't get what your point is. My argument is correct as presented (I even gave reasons) and I adhere to it with no inconsistencies (as seen by the fact that I don't play creatures where if removed, it's bad for you.)

Usually when one presents an “argument” they also give a reason for arguing their claim P. Don’t feel special because you’re doing something that’s been happening since the beginning of time.
Spicing up your argument with rebuttals on inevitability don’t improve the fact that your deck plays crappy cards with strong synergies to each other versus mine which plays good cards with strong synergies. Weathered Wayferor for all it’s usefulness to you is a terrible card by itself, and is the equivalent to noble hierarch, a much more efficient stand alone threat then the opposition. As for the other aforementioned cards there really is no comparison, as the cards your questioning sacrificed a mana or two for huge leaps in power. This is an argument that you and I will never agree on, and thus is a mute point. Lets move on.


Wow, you won a few tournaments? Weren't you behind that retard wave where people were like: a deck can't be good until it wins a million tournaments, yeah! And now you're like: I won 8 out of 8 times, gg!
I was one of the people who stated that your backing for every single argument can’t be “I did well at sc5k.” because I think the quality of decks/ players isn’t good, which explains why you did well. You beat out bad players with a deck that you knew better than your opponents. You should have been curb-stomped by Belcher, but you were lucky and made it due to extreme luck. This was my reasoning.

My argument is that I won several tournaments in many different areas against a range of different players and a variety of different arch-types, in various different states. I have done well EVERY time and every tournament i've played in. Also note, I don’t know anyone who has picked up the arch-type “including the creators” who hasn’t top8’d a sanctioned or unsanctioned event they’ve played in. That’s pretty impressive given the number of showings the decks made. In your case I don't know all of your accomplishments. I know like I said I was rooting for you at the sc5k, and it was exciting to watch someone I know do well in a more national setting. I think the personal distaste we have for each other has been mostly due to me not liking the ego you've presented and a deck that simply isn't as strong as you make it out to be. I am not alone in this feeling, and i don't know exactly why it happened like this, but I can tell you I enjoyed our conversations when we were friends. If I could learn to drop my strong critiques and you could learn some humbleness, maybe we could be pro-active in these departments.


I mean I'm not retarded enough to think that's not an accomplishment the way my critics have been, but I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. Of course, you being a hypocrite isn't an argument in my favor, but it certainly calls for you to reflect on your own understanding of how things work.

I was critical of your finish in the SC5k after I looked at what players were playing, and what the quality of player was in these events. Many players have been, not just me and not just players who are critical of UW Tempo. Your boasting of the performance has done nothing but encourage these claims. My tournament experience is of a wider caliber from a meta-game standpoint and a long-term standpoint. I've consistently performed well and that was the basis of my argument in the first place under your counter.


Also, regarding your claim that I misunderstood the contents of this thread, it seems like you only tried to refute one person's claim: Tinefol's. Path to exile is horrible, but everybody runs it, hence my comment. It's incredibly suspect that you're so happy to give goblins a land when it's such a mana hungry deck, but you wouldn't even *bounce* a land to counter a ringleader. The analog of the drawback corresponding to path would be like if you had to sacrifice a land, so besides being up an entire +1 card in hand, daze also lets you pay nothing, relative to the same tempo swing of PTE.

I disagree with virtually everything you said other than that goblins is a mana hungry deck. I’ve already explained my position in this argument and I don’t care to re-explain myself again. If you don’t get it or disagree I’m sorry for your incompetence, but I’m always right. You should have learned that by now because this is my thread :laugh:. (See what I did there Joe?)

Plague Sliver
06-01-2010, 04:20 PM
My head hurts after reading the debate :-) I hope that your friend is OK.

Nice report and nice finish. I'll sleeve this deck up in the future and hopefully write my own report.

beastman
06-01-2010, 05:02 PM
Pi4 is one of the most elaborate trolls of all time. Well done sir. Now stop being a dick.



Oh yeah, nice report mossy.

Bardo
06-01-2010, 07:12 PM
That's enough.