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GoldenCid
08-08-2010, 10:50 PM
PRIMER WHITE AGGRO STAX

Since my beginning in magic i was interested in the working of anit- metagame decks.
I began with the classic control version of stax in which is based the deck I present to you in this primer. As a general concept stax deck are based in mana denial and reduce de possibilities of the opponent for casting their low cmc spells with the objective of getting “free turns” to set a full lock. Unlike control stax, the aggro version sets its lock using creatures all with flying with the help of f course of chalice of the void and trinisphere. In this website there is a topic dedicated to armaggedon control stax and some variations but aggro stax was a bit set aside.
So I based my ideas on the top versions for this deck and refined them by testing for a period of six month. Here I show you an almost optimized list and its possible variations:

Main Deck (60)

Lands (21)
3 Flagstones of Trokair
5 Plains (1)
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland

Creatures (14)
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Windborn Muse
4 Exalted Angel
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence

Other Spells (25)
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Armageddon
4 Chrome Mox
1 Moat
2 Suppression Field

Sideboard (15)

1 Suppression Field
3 Sphere of Law
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Glowrider
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
2 Aura of Silence

Card selection

Mana base

21 lands a bit lesser than in control version it’s enough to not be screwed or flooded.
8 “2 mana lands” gives the explosiveness to consistently cast a trinisphere or even better, for turn 1, a chalice.
I found that more than 4 flagstones is an excess especially when we run 3 armaggedons and no smokestacks. 3 is a good number because you can explode it despite its legendary ability and make well use of our geddons.
Wasteland could be replaced by Ghost Quarter if you wish. I prefer wasteland because you can produce real mana denial. Off course that if you have Aven Mindscensor into the battlefield Ghost Quarter could be a serious problem for your opponent.
This is the only card that is affected by our suppression field but commonly you play wasteland before SF if not the lock effect of the enchantment will be better than cracking a land.
I included a single Karakas to have a chance against a resolved iona, it could be omitted if you can’t get it. What it’s advisable to get is the tabernacle. This card is hyper synergic with the almost the hole deck. Off course we have a good stuff of guys but it will be always worse for your opponent than for you deal with it.


Creatures

I love the creature pack of this deck. They are all easy playable into the range of the deck and all of them have flying.

Aven Minscensor: Despite of being a 2/1 guy I consider one the best guys in the deck. It craps fetchlands and any kind of tutor. It has flash (and flying) so you can play it in response to an activated fetch or whatever you consider dangerous. I’d play no less than 4 copies.

Windborn Muse: Our “prison” creature. Many times she works as a win condition, seriously. She has flying (2/3) so you can remove the “flying nuisance” of your opponent with Oblivion ring and just attack. Her prison effect combined with tabernacle, trinisphere and / or chalice makes her a 4 copies girl.

Exalted Angel: Our solid win condition. You can play it for the ideal cost of 3 under sphere and morph it the next turn. It’s a very well known guy who found comparison with the arrival of Baneslayer Angel. However I found Exalted a bit better than slayer here. This due to the form you can cast exalted and the amount of mana we can generate. I observed that the generation of 5 mana with double white is difficult for the deck. However, if your meta is plagued of Tombstalker a split of 2 Exalted 2 Slayer could be played if you consider it necessary.

Linvala, Keeper of Silence: The Rise of Eldrazi addition. She fits very well to the deck. She has a definitive “field effect” on creatures: Quasali Pridemage, Ravager, Grim lavamancer, army of mana generating elves, Cursecatcher and so on. It resists a single bolt and flies what it’s really awesome. Linvala and suppression field almost locks completely to the opponent.
Other spells:

Lock pieces:

Chalice of the void, Trinisphere and Suppression Field: Maybe the card which needs more explanation is Suppression Field. This deck can make a lock in almost all aspects of the game. However activated abilities were beyond of the limitations that lock itself produces. I found that some permanents have annoying abilities: sensei’s divining top (not to mention counter-top), grindstone, engineered explosives, Quasali pridemage, Survival of the fittest, Jace, the mind sculptor, and so on. All of them provides a real advantage for the opponent.

Moat: What can I say? All the creatures of our deck can fly, so with moat everybody wins!

Oblivion ring: Our spot permanent removal.

Armageddon: Almost a finisher with Windborn muse and a “Wrath of God” Before dropping tabernacle. Chrome mox is absolutely synergic here. I think that no explanation is requires here.

Crucible of World: Another obvious card: Provides the wastelock and the reposition of the lands destroyed with Armageddon.

Sideboard

Keeping aside the obvious cards:

Magus of the tabernacle: Agaist aggro is our ticket to victory. Magus + mox + ggedon = gg?

Glowrider: Another perfect piece against storm combo.

Aura of silence: Our way out against enchantress and affinity (if it’s still played). In mirror match is useful too.

Well I think that’s all by now. Any additional information will be added.

Thanks!!

GoldenCid
09-30-2010, 10:32 PM
After a time, Scars of mirrodin provided us of this angel:

http://www.uploadfilesystem.com/thumbs/10/10/01/tn_abj96622.jpg (http://www.uploadfilesystem.com//viewimage.php?file=/imagenes/10/10/01/abj96622.jpg)

I think that it's perfect for protecting our main artifacts from pridemage, grip and others.
Its cost fits with mana range of the deck, so i'll test it in place on linvala.
Thoughts?

Al-ucard
10-01-2010, 02:52 AM
And what about the new Leonin Arbiter?

makochman
10-01-2010, 04:59 AM
A fairly similar deck on deckcheck:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31208

I'm not saying it's better, but it does have a few cards that you might find worth considering. Cataclysm, for example, looks very good in that deck. It's like Smokestack and Armageddon rolled into one. Calciderm, on the other hand, is an odd choice as it cannot be equipped.

I think that you should replace Chrome Mox with Mox Diamond. It just has better synergy with your deck. Also you may need bigger creatures and/or equipment IMO. Even Exalted angel will often be smaller than Tarmogoyf; it doesn't help that you play a lot of artifacts and enchantments, which will make Goyf 5/6 much of the time.

Masamune
10-01-2010, 11:45 AM
After a time, Scars of mirrodin provided us of this angel:

http://www.uploadfilesystem.com/thumbs/10/10/01/tn_abj96622.jpg (http://www.uploadfilesystem.com//viewimage.php?file=/imagenes/10/10/01/abj96622.jpg)

I think that it's perfect for protecting our main artifacts from pridemage, grip and others.
Its cost fits with mana range of the deck, so i'll test it in place on linvala.
Thoughts?

Why everybody wanna test with this bad angel in this deck? If u want to protect your artifacts run Leonin Abunas. It's 2/5 with no metalcraftshit and CC is better

GoldenCid
10-01-2010, 08:22 PM
And what about the new Leonin Arbiter?

Nice but suboptimal in comparisson with Mindscensor.

@masamune: I thought exactly the same, but this angel flies (i run moat) and can be used as winning condition at the same time you protect your stuff...

Antonius
10-01-2010, 09:49 PM
Don't they call this...Angel Stompy?

GoldenCid
10-02-2010, 05:46 PM
A fairly similar deck on deckcheck:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31208

I'm not saying it's better, but it does have a few cards that you might find worth considering. Cataclysm, for example, looks very good in that deck. It's like Smokestack and Armageddon rolled into one. Calciderm, on the other hand, is an odd choice as it cannot be equipped.

I think that you should replace Chrome Mox with Mox Diamond. It just has better synergy with your deck. Also you may need bigger creatures and/or equipment IMO. Even Exalted angel will often be smaller than Tarmogoyf; it doesn't help that you play a lot of artifacts and enchantments, which will make Goyf 5/6 much of the time.

It's a nice deck. But if think it plays a bit different. We abuse of the effects of armagedon with windborn muse, tabernacle, crucible and magus postside. He plays cataclism instead.

GoldenCid
11-28-2010, 10:27 PM
Well...some fresh movement to this topic.

Wtih the augue of Survival, activated habilities and tutoring is a key subject of actual magic. So This deck is probably a rea good antimetagame choice. I took the decission of running an additonal Suppression field (instead of a crucible) maindeck which is insane combinate with mind sensor.
Off course leyline of sancticity came into the sideboard to seal the deal against combo (if needed) and burn. Here is the list for discussion:

/ Lands
3 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
5 [5E] Plains (1)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
4 [10E] Windborn Muse
4 [ON] Exalted Angel

// Spells
3 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [PT] Armageddon
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [LG] Moat
3 [RAV] Suppression Field

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [LE] Glowrider
SB: 3 [PLC] Magus of the Tabernacle
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 [ROE] Linvala, Keeper of Silence

Dino
11-28-2010, 10:54 PM
mox diamond seems better than chrome mox in this deck

GoldenCid
11-28-2010, 10:57 PM
mox diamond seems better than chrome mox in this deck

I would like to read your reasons.

otherside
11-28-2010, 11:31 PM
Not as much card disadvantage with crucible in play.

Mark Sun
11-28-2010, 11:32 PM
I would like to read your reasons.

Because it's a Stax shell. You have 11 Artifacts + 4 Chrome Mox in the deck and you'll likely be pitching a threat or business, something that you cannot afford to do without inherent card advantage. You aren't even running Horizon Canopies like normal Stax shells. Yikes!

Also, Tormod's Crypt + Trinisphere?

I'm pretty sure this is just Angel Stompy with MD Suppresion Fields...

Esper3k
11-29-2010, 12:16 AM
Also, why Exalted Angel over Baneslayer?

Dino
11-29-2010, 09:35 AM
I would like to read your reasons.

Chrome mox requires you to remove a colored card, which would be one of your lock pieces or win cons.

With mox diamond, you are able to keep those in your hand and along with crucible, you can get back the lands that you discarded earlier.

wally2345
11-29-2010, 02:32 PM
Chrome mox requires you to remove a colored card, which would be one of your lock pieces or win cons.

With mox diamond, you are able to keep those in your hand and along with crucible, you can get back the lands that you discarded earlier.

The problem with mox diamond is that it requires you to run a higher land count than he is now. He currently has 21 land and 4 moxes, where a geddon stax deck normally runs 24-25 lands and 4 diamonds. The difference between the two decks is that you are opening 4 more slots for an additional lock piece. The problem with regular stacks is that some days the deck works wonderfully but other days you get screwed on mana. So i like the idea of dropping 4 lands for an addtional threat in the mainboard seems like a positive.

Also, why only 1 moat mainboard. There are no tutors so wouldn't you want to make a few changes to run 2-3.

ScatmanX
11-29-2010, 03:31 PM
Also, Tormod's Crypt + Trinisphere?
I'm guessing he would play the Crypt BEFORE playing Trini...
Even if he draws it after, he already has 3 mana,so no problems here...

GoldenCid
11-29-2010, 07:52 PM
The problem with mox diamond is that it requires you to run a higher land count than he is now. He currently has 21 land and 4 moxes, where a geddon stax deck normally runs 24-25 lands and 4 diamonds. The difference between the two decks is that you are opening 4 more slots for an additional lock piece. The problem with regular stacks is that some days the deck works wonderfully but other days you get screwed on mana. So i like the idea of dropping 4 lands for an addtional threat in the mainboard seems like a positive.


Exactly. The land count here can't support 4 diamond that's why chrome. Note that most of our pieces are run y 4x (except SF) son you can print one to mox with a "security" that you will get another copy with the time if you lock. For example a gedon doesn't need to be cast before turn 3 or 4 so depending on your hand (this is always depending on your opening hand) you can print it to get an sphere on battlefield. On the other hand, the most of openng hands looks like:

PLains + Plains + mox + 4 Spells, would yu discard a plains to diamond?? (if you run it)

or

Tomb / city + mox + 5 Spellsm would you discard??

Mark Sun
11-29-2010, 08:48 PM
I'm guessing he would play the Crypt BEFORE playing Trini...
Even if he draws it after, he already has 3 mana,so no problems here...

Yes, I realized that. Just seems a little awkward, but I guess there's not much more answers that Mono-W has to graveyards outside of terrible ones like Morningtide, since you can't run Relic of Progenitus.




Exactly. The land count here can't support 4 diamond that's why chrome. Note that most of our pieces are run y 4x (except SF) son you can print one to mox with a "security" that you will get another copy with the time if you lock. For example a gedon doesn't need to be cast before turn 3 or 4 so depending on your hand (this is always depending on your opening hand) you can print it to get an sphere on battlefield. On the other hand, the most of openng hands looks like:

PLains + Plains + mox + 4 Spells, would yu discard a plains to diamond?? (if you run it)

or

Tomb / city + mox + 5 Spellsm would you discard??


I don't think the point was replacing Chrome Mox with Mox Diamond straight up.

I'm not sure what the "correct" number of Lands to run with 4 Mox Diamond in these builds is but I'm certain it's 24-25 or higher. What you've essentially done is just taken a generic Stax list and went -3 Lands, -4 Mox Diamond, +4 Chrome Mox, +3 Suppresion Field. I'm honestly not seeing any difference, or any reason why its better (reasoning below).

Not putting the deck down, I just don't see the reason it's not part of the Stax thread. You're always going to have the inherent issue of card advantage with a deck like this, why not pitch something more synergistic (Pitch Land, use Crucible). You can't get an exiled Imprint target back. The original point of the Moxen was obviously to get that t1 Trinisphere, I don't believe anything is different here either.

GoldenCid
11-29-2010, 09:40 PM
What do you mean with classical?? By classical i understand: Magus of the tabernacle + Smokestak + Geddon. This is quite different and there's no thread discussion about a version like this!

FieryBalrog
11-29-2010, 10:12 PM
There is no such thing as "aggro stax". Either you're a stompy deck, or you're a stax deck. Trying to do both is a mistake.

If this is an aggro deck, I would ditch Crucible and Chalice. I don't see any reason to run Exalted Angel over Baneslayer, your stated reason doesn't makes sense- generating one more colorless mana isn't the deck's problem, generating WW is, and you have to do that for either creature. Apart from that Exalted sucks and eats up two turns, Baneslayer rocks and doesn't.

I don't see why Linvala is in, either. Comes down way too late to matter vs most of Survival's creatures that it affects (Hierarch, Mongrel, Aquamoeba). Completely useless vs everything else.

Mindcensor, Leonin Arbiter, Baneslayer, Glowrider and maybe Stoneforge Mystic are all good possibilities. Running equipment is great in a deck like this esp. with Mystic.

GoldenCid
11-29-2010, 10:58 PM
.

I don't see why Linvala is in, either. Comes down way too late to matter vs most of Survival's creatures that it affects (Hierarch, Mongrel, Aquamoeba). Completely useless vs everything else.

.

Have you seen my last list??

Please, if you didn't tested don't arguee. Please if you din't read don't post.

Thx!!

wally2345
11-29-2010, 11:51 PM
I believe you need to change the the name of the thread, as it is confusing people. This deck has no stax and I believe it is misleading people, and they are not realizing this.

Anyway, back to my previous comment about the 1 Moat. Is it possible to cut an O-ring and possibly something else to make the moat count higher. A one-of Moat does not seem like it is enough to see consistently especially against the usual aggro decks.

f|i[p]
11-30-2010, 12:46 AM
Something like this has been posted before and I have tested a similar list... Although its good vs combo, it still at times falls down vs aggro.. Even with tons of hate against Vengevine, they just usually hard cast it, and we mostly end up defensive because the creatures here cannot handle an exalted vengevine.

However I almost use the same list and I think baneslayers are worth the inclusion. I don't think armageddon are worth it as a 4 of. And I never really liked windborn muse. They die easily and with exalted around, they die to exalted trygons as well...I actually stopped using chrome mox and went back to mox diamond. I never liked removing a non artifact spell for the acceleration.

If you are going the stax route, you can try a transformational sideboard, where you go back to the old stax list since most of the components you have are mostly in stax anyway.

TooCloseToTheSun
11-30-2010, 01:41 AM
This is a list I posted a while back. A lot of testing went into it, so maybe you can take some ideas from it.

3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
9 Plains

4 Aven Mindcensor
3 Windborn Muse
4 Baneslayer Angel

3 Oblivion Ring
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ravages of War
3 Trinisphere
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Armageddon
4 Mox Diamond
1 Moat

We really never nailed down a side board for it, but the main deck was well set. The land count might be a little low for some, with having to support 4 Mox Diamonds but it never really seemed to be a problem for us. Oblivion ring is even better now with all the emrakul floating around. Elspeth may seem a weird include in this deck but it proved to be one of the better cards late game.

kinda
02-22-2011, 04:29 PM
This deck is interesting...and I think leonin ariber has a place. It's brutal turn 1 and 2 as well as after armageddon or with wastelands. It will have to be sided out vs. monocolor goblins/merfolk but that's about it.

Total: 15
2 magus of the tabernacle
4 windborn muse
4 leonin arbiter
2 linvala
3 baneslayer

Non creature: 17
4 chalice
4 ghostly prison
3 trinisphere
3 armageddon
3 crucible

Mana: 28
4 mox diamond
3 flagstones
4 ancient tomb
4 wasteland
1 kor haven
1 maze
2 city of traitors
7 plains
2 horizon canopy

Sb:
4 leyline of sanctity
2 magus of the tabernacle
1 armageddon
1 crucible
3 exalted angel
4 tormod’s crypt

GoldenCid
02-22-2011, 07:53 PM
I think that Aven mindscensor + Leonin is the shit!!