[Deck] B/G Death Cloud

[C Rayz Walz]

I posted this a while ago in the New Decks forum. I've reached the Top 8 in 5/6 of the tournaments I've taken this to (all of them having 40+ players). I and others have done some serious testing, and I believe the following list is the optimum build for the deck in the current format.


// Lands
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [B] Bayou
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
5 [APL] Swamp (1)
6 [APL] Forest (3)

// Creatures
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 [UD] Yavimaya Elder
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [FD] Eternal Witness
2 [M11] Grave Titan
2 [LRW] Shriekmaw

// Spells
3 [DS] Death Cloud
3 [PLC] Damnation
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [TE] Choke
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [M11] Obstinate Baloth


Strategy and Card Choices:

In short- accumulate enough resources to resolve Death Cloud such that you come out in much better shape than your opponent.

The deck runs 8 elders, which work to ensure that you don't miss a land drop. They also chump block as need be against aggro until you can resolve Deed or Damnation. Maws assist with keeping the board clear. Goyfs speak for themselves: they can end the game early if unanswered or help keep up against quicker decks. Garruk helps you accelerate into a Death Cloud that wipes out all of your opponent's creatures, lands, and hand. It is extremely rare to lose after resolving Cloud with Garruk on the board. Alternatively, particularly against Tribal/Zoo, Grave Titan alone can win the game. On paper he may seem costly, but in testing he's been game-changing. It's easy to get the mana with 8 Elders, and he can single-handedly win the game against many decks. 10 power for 6cc. 3 creatures with more on the way. Black (sorry Perish). Trust me when I say that he works splendidly. The other cards shouldn't need much explaining: Top fixes your draw, Thoughtseize clears out early threats or guides one of your finishers through, Witness lets you do it all over, and Stronghold turns Shriekmaws and YavElders into nasty card advantage late game.

As far as the Sideboard, most of it should be self-explanatory. Chokes are game-enders vs many of the decks in the format. Needles are mostly for Planeswalkers but can also be for Vial-based decks, since Cloud doesn't handle them quite as well. Baloths make the Zoo (and random Sligh/aggro) matchups much stronger.

Some strengths of the deck are that it is fairly immune to nonbasic hate and most of the cards fall outside of the easy Countertop/Chalice range. It has serious problems vs cards like Armageddon/Cataclysm, but they're not run frequently enough to really be a huge concern.

Other cards that used to be in the deck or that I've tried and didn't like:
Kitchen Finks- the power level just isn't high enough. Nice synergy with Damnation/Deed/Cloud and improves the aggro matchup. However, Finks just gave way to the strategy of ramping up lands to hit the bombs.

Hymn to Tourach- The deck used to be focused a little more on "B/G card advantage," and to some extent it still is. These were decent if you could get them early, but just didn't cut it later in the game. They were also too susceptible to Snare, Countertop, Pierce to really be worth it.

Maelstrom Pulse- Used to run it but found it too slow vs aggro and not consistent enough vs Planeswalkers or whatever else might need removing. Shriekmaw got the job done better, Deed could pick up most of the other stuff, and board can take care of the rest.

Veteran Explorer- Bad synergy with Death Cloud. Very bad. Sometimes speeds you up to start, but from my experience it can hurt you as much as help you. The "speeding up" is really only wanted vs aggro, and many times against decks like Goblins I'd get two more lands only to be smashed in the face by a horde of Goblins next turn. STE has been much better.

Cabal Therapy- Not consistent enough. You need to be able to hit something for sure with that turn 1 discard. Missing a Humility or Elspeth or Vial or Lackey turn 1 has cost me games. Same goes for Inquisition of Kozilek.

Matchups:

Zoo- This match is slightly in our favor Game 1 and solidly in our favor after board. Game 1 can be tough without Baloths. Usually you can hold them off with your Elders in time for a Deed or Damnation. The key is to stay out of burn range. The strength of the matchup is that if they falter a step or two, a Cloud for 3 almost always ends the game. Games 2 and 3 are much stronger with Baloths coming in. Sometimes they'll throw a weanie and a Bolt in front of it to get rid of it, and that's fine. Zoo is a deck that becomes very pedestrian after it's emptied it's opening hand, and absorbing two cards with one works toward that. If you're out of burn range when they hit top deck mode, the game is usually yours.

Goblins- This match is in our favor, but certainly not a pushover. With 3 Damnations, 3 Deeds, and 3 Death Clouds, it's not difficult to keep a horde of Goblins off the board. Really the key is surviving the initial onslaught. STEs, YavElders, Goyfs, and Maws help with this. Since Gobs has Vials and is more explosive than Zoo, a board-clearer doesn't usually mean the end, so you can't get complacent. Keep the pressure on with Goyf/Witness/whatever creatures you can get on the board.If you resolve Grave Titan, the game is over.

Merfolk- In our favor, but less so than Goblins because Folk can deal with the bombs early with Daze/FoW. However, if you can resolve Deed and activate, the game is pretty much over if their hand has been nearly emptied. Grave Titan is a bomb as usual vs aggro. The strategy is pretty much the same as against Gobs, the difference being that Folk is much weaker once in top deck mode.

Countertop- Obviously there are a few versions to account for. In general, these matchups are fairly easy- they can't handle Death Cloud or Garruk, and when Choke and Grip come in that tends to seal the deal. Thopter is the easiest version to beat. They can't really handle Deed and Games 2 and 3 bring in Grip, which the deck loses to. ProBant is also fairly easy to beat, considering the deck has 6 ways to kill Progenitus (9 if you count Deed, but that's pushing it). Red splashed Countertop is much the same story. Can be a little harder since it doesn't rely on a win condition that Death Cloud or Deed is tailor-made to stop. But still it's strongly in our favor.

Storm- Without Mystical Tutor, I don't think this deck is very strong. On paper, it seems tough. I've never really had a problem with it. Thoughtseize early and a Goyf with other creatures can put them on a short clock. If Storm finds a way to become strong again, it can be addressed in the board I think.

New Horizons- Strongly in our favor. This deck loses to Death Cloud big time. Their counter backup isn't strong or consistent enough to stop our gameplan, and Maw/Deed/Damnation/Cloud easily handles their threats. A pretty easy matchup.

Landstill- Very tough game 1. Garruk is strong vs them, but Humility/Moat/Elspeth kind of wreck our day. After board the game is much more winnable but still not easy. Needle and Grip deal with the cards that previously meant gg, and Choke usually means gg for them. The main reason this match is hard is Landstill is good at hitting land drops, and an effective Death Cloud requires you having more lands than your opponent. Combine that with Humility and Moat, and it's a tough match. But after board, definitely winnable.

Dredge- Not as tough as it might seem on paper. With 8 Elders, it's fairly easy to keep Bridge out of the grave, and Deed can handle the creatures that hit play. Crypt coming in games 2/3 obviously help. Haven't tested this matchup extensively, but from what I've seen it's very winnable Game 1, and then in our favor after board.


Interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

[RichardK]

I have always liked the Death Cloud decks :)

I would probably try Gatekeeper of Malakir instead of Shriekmaw just in case a progenitus appears on the table. (EDIT: ignore this line, this is just stupid)

Also, Tombstalker seems like a perfect card for this deck. It is easy to cast because your graveryard will grow soon.

[Hawdes]

I have alwasy liked the Death Cloud decks :)

I would probably try Gatekeepr of Malakir instead of Shriekmaw just in case a progenitus appears on the table.

Also, Tombstalker seems like a perfect card for this deck. It is easy to cast because your graveryard will grow soon.

You know that Damnation and Death Cloud kills of Progenitus?

[RichardK]

You know that Damnation and Death Cloud kills of Progenitus?

Yeah I know, I forgot about that.

[Nelis]

The deck has 61 cards. Maybe that's what you intended but if I wanted to make it 60 cards, what's the first thing that comes to mind to take out?

[C Rayz Walz]

Also, Tombstalker seems like a perfect card for this deck. It is easy to cast because your graveryard will grow soon.

Tombstalker on paper seems like a decent fit, but I have a couple problems with him. It's easiest to think about his utility in 2 scenarios: pre-Cloud and post-Cloud.

Pre-Cloud our graveyard can get big enough to cast him early, but my concern is that you're removing cards that you might want as targets for Witness or Stronghold, and you're also weakening Goyf. Unlike a deck like Eva Green, we want those cards to stay in our graveyard.

Post-Cloud, you almost always discard your entire hand, so you're counting on drawing him after a Cloud. Your graveyard will definitely be big enough, but I'm hesitant to rely on drawing like that.

Also, Tombstalker isn't the hardest creature in the world to deal with. He's more aggro-bent in my view, and less of a "hard to deal with" finisher like Titan or Garruk. Keep in mind that people board in GY hate vs us (whereas they probably wouldn't vs Eva Green). An activated Relic or Crypt after Death Cloud means no post-Cloud Tombstalker, and that seems like the biggest reason to play him.

As a side note, the former Extended version of this deck did not run Tombstalker, and that format didn't have Swords.

The more I think about it the less I like Tombstalker in the deck. I also can't think of what I would cut. If anyone tests with him and would like to add to what I've said (or tell me I've got it all wrong), please do so.

[C Rayz Walz]

The deck has 61 cards. Maybe that's what you intended but if I wanted to make it 60 cards, what's the first thing that comes to mind to take out?

I did intend for it to be 61, but if I had to cut something I suppose I'd cut a Shriekmaw or Damnation. I'd be hesitant to drop the number of threats and I see the rest of the spells currently at their necessary numbers.

What would you cut?

[Phoenix Ignition]

Glad to see this established and I urge the mods to leave it here. I'm going to put my GP Columbus report here where I 6-2-1ed with the deck as well.


I might as well put the tourney report here as most of the ones in the actual section are day 2ers and I sadly lost in the 9th round to miss day 2.

Quick start off: We leave at 8:00am on Friday and hit the worst traffic believable in Chicago. Like, unreal 45 minutes per 10 miles for 50 miles type of unreal. 15.5 hours after we start out we arrive in Columbus and are tired as hell. A bit of testing and last minute deck building before heading to sleep and 4 hours of sleep later I wake up good to go grind out a full 9 rounds since I haven't played enough recently to get into bye range. That's okay though, I really don't mind the practice before getting up to the higher tables.

The deck I'm piloting is based off of the Death Cloud deck in this thread (I can't stand the word "bleen") with at least a few changes to try to increase my meta odds.

1297 or so people come, which is a bit disappointing to everyone there, but I miss listening to the rest of the players meeting trying to sleeve my deck up with fresh bought tight as hell black kmc matt sleeves (I don't recommend them).

Rounds go up and this is my list + sideboard:

4 Verdant Catacombs
6 Forest
5 Swamp
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Bayou
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Eternal Witness
2 Grave Titan
2 Obstinate Baloth
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Shriekmaw

3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Deathcloud
2 Damnation
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Hymn to Tourach

SB:
2 Krosan Grip
3 Extirpate
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Innocent Blood
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pernicious Deed

Match 1: Merfolk

Game 1: He starts out the game with island + vial so it's a bit obvious what he's playing. I think everything he had was foil, so I made sure to not let myself go into auto pilot, assuming that he probably was good. He got one of those quick curving out lord draws with no protection, and is playing maindeck jitte, so I drop a deeds and watch my life go down before I wipe his board and stabilize at around 6 life. I play directly into the stifle if he has it, but I suspect he is going hyper aggressive build and I'm right. Shriekmaw and Kitchen Finks hold down the fort and take out his life.

Game 2: This goes a little more in my favor as I get out finks + obstinate baloth to keep my life in the high teens. A deeds 4 for 1's him and I later find out he boarded in Stifles when he gets Shriekmaw's CitP. I stabilize at 2 with my life gain creatures. Luckily he didn't draw it for the deed or I would have lost to an accumulating power of fish.

2-0 games
1-0 match.

Match 2: NO countertop bant
Game 1: I win the roll and play land top. He gets trop + hierarch which meets my shriekmaw. He then plays a Dryad Arbor for his second land drop while I play a volrath's stronghold. Recurring Shriekmaw keep him off of any sort of mana.

Game 2: Again he keeps a low land hand but gets turn 1 top turn 2 counterbalance. It's okay though because Shriekmaw costs 5 and kills his mana hierarch. Then deeds wipe his board and he doesn't draw into enough lands to do anything to stop my other Shriekmaw which takes out a goyf.

4-0 games
2-0 match.

Match 3: Tempo Thresh (oh hi, I play 11 basics)
Quick aside I cannot stand when someone loses and proceeds to say how much bad luck they get (okay this is fine but not this:) and then goes on to say how they suck at life and should quit magic and are no good at anything. I'll go along with you saying you have mana screw or whatever, it happens, but I'm not going to babysit you at the end of a match when you're QQing about getting a loss. That's what this opponent did.

Game 1: He plays with my manabase a bit and Stifles things like Sakura-Tribe elder while watching his goyfs get Shriekmawed. Eventually I hit 6 lands and drop a Grave Titan on him. Yeah, against the deck that tries to destroy my manabase. The zombies falling out of his body get the win after he gets double bolted (I like his picture).

Game 2: He draws like Tempo Thresh should and is on the play. I draw my non basics and fetches. He actually interrupts my mana and has the Submerge for my attempts to stop his tiny creatures.

Game 3: Relic + finks + baloth beats are my notes. I think he mulliganned twice here. Then he goes on to complain like I explained above. Annoying opponent.

6-1 games
3-0 match.

Match 4: Weird Jace + countertop + goyf + trinket mage toolbox
Game 1: Turn 1 top, turn 2 counterbalance. I was on the play and drop turn 3 Deeds which he blinds a clique for. I don't see much removal and can only stall a bit with shriekmaws before he kills me.

Game 2: A lot of back and forth with threat and answer lead to top deck wars. Deeds makes sure CB/Top doesn't ruin me and my top digs for the Shriekmaw to answer his goyf and terror in for the last 6 points of damage. Long game.

Game 3: His deck seems to have 8 sword/paths after sideboard (possibly before too) so threats don't end up sticking for very long. I slowly eat away his life but he keeps getting answers. I bait a few times to remove his FoWs and drop an angry Grave Titan. He has the path but the zombies remain. Time is called and I can only get him to 3 but the shriekmaw I draw at the end definitely would have beaten him even if he could have found the answer. Stupid draws, pretty much always = loss at GPs.

7-2-1 games
3-0-1 match.

Match 5: UWT Jacob Shnieders

Game 1: He plays plains -> Aether vial so I know exactly what he is playing. I play inquisition and then lay down two deeds on the field when he doesn't have any counters. Good thing about being familiar with a deck, you know they don't play 3 drops that you care about. I do however draw into a large amount of non basics and he can keep his tempo up even through the deeds on the field. I draw into double grave titan, double Damnation with only 3 basics I have seen the whole game. Strange how this deck decides to not get basics at the wrong time. Anyway he eventually builds card advantage and ends the game after about 3 solid turns of swinging with like 10 tiny dudes and eventually a jitte. I was hoping to top deck my last deed and blow out his board.

He pulls out sideboard notes and I know he's got them straight from pi4. This is extremely helpful because I know how little respect for rock pi4 has. I know he won't have much to board in (presumably spell pierce but you can go read that thread if you really care -- I don't). We chat about the state of that thread and matchups of the day.

Game 2: 4th deed from the board helps me hit them early. I keep his field in check and we go back and forth a bit until he runs out of card advantage and double kitchen finks beat him to death.

Game 3: Deeds along with a giant goyf and a shriekmaw seal the game after my k grip ruins his Jitte plan. I love running bigger creatures who don't depend on each other or equipment to be able to turn sideways. I also sided in Innocent Bloods, which helped me at some point my notes say. Fun opponent though.

This is still my most fun matchup to play against with any deck I'm piloting. I just love beating it.

9-3-1 games
4-0-1 match.

Match 6: NO countertop bant
Game 1: Turn 4 Natural Order with a FoW for my Death Cloud on 1. I see a weakness maindeck with my Inquisitions now, but I really expected more zoo + merfolk + goblins. They were freaking everywhere, I just didn't run into them at all.

Game 2: Back and forth game but I k grip a top and Damnation 2 hierarchs and a goyf. He has low lands and shriekmaw beats him to death after he lays a goyf down.

Game 3: Innocent blood his early dudes and he gets a Progenitus out. I K grip his top and then Damnation, which he can't blind reveal for CB. Goyf and Shriekmaw come down for the win.

11-4-1 games
5-0-1 match.

Match 7: Burn

Game 1: He plays burn, I play try-to-kill-you-faster and maelstrom pulse my finks at some point to try to not die. I get him to 2 and he gets me to 1 with no cards left in hand. He pulls the burn and I lose.

Game 2: He pithing needles my top, I drop goyf and deeds the needle to make him huge. Finks joins the party while my life goes down. I'm at 7 and he has 1 card in hand. I have lethal on the board. He rips the Fireblast to accompany his bolt. Sick life sir. I'm not really upset, more amused at how hard I should beat that deck with 4x finks 2x obstinate baloth main. Oh well, burn still is a bad deck that can get God hands and win.

11-6-1 games
5-1-1 match.

Match 8: NO countertop bant (Grimes or something similar on here, I wish I wrote down his last name but everyone from the New York area apparently should know him as Grimey. Very fun opponent)

We talk about Minnesota's 10,000 Lakes festival. I'm happy our State isn't exclusively known for Fargo and woodchipping people. Awesome festival by the way. If you're reading this report then what I mentioned was this radio station. Stream it, it's quite incredible (I'm a sustaining member) http://minnesota.publicradio.org/radio/services/the_current/

Game 1: He only gets a counterbalance online and I hymn his natural order before he can use it. I think Shriekmaws (possibly with Stronghold) take out his threats and eventually a Grave titan lands on the table with an army of zombies assembling.

Game 2: He gets a mana flood and not much in terms of things to do with it. I think we both K grip each others tops, but my witness grabs it back. Kitchen Finks joins in the slow attack and his life eventually drops to the red zone. I drop a witness for I think a Shriekmaw so that he'll die next turn without multiple answers. He finally hits a green creature and Natural Orders, but I only need 1 creature to connect to win.

13-6-1 games
6-1-1 matches.

Round 9: My opponent is my neighbor from the last round, but I'm quite burned out from the matches and don't remember what he was playing. We talk about our various experiences living in China though, which was fun.

He was playing some weird Counter-top (Grand total of 5 Counterbalance decks today, and EVERY deck played Force of Will) that used Elspeth, Jace, Knight of the Reliquary, maindeck Jittes, other random stuff.

Game 1: I don't have notes for this match but it ends when he gets two planeswalkers and my Pernicious Deeds were printed before there was a need to blow up planeswalkers. I am still pretty upset at Wizards for not printing decent answers to these high powered Planeswalkers, when relatively every old card can't deal with them. I could have deathclouded the board but Elspeth was too much.

Game 2: He assembles countertop and I k grip the counterbalance after he fetches. Oh look, a Rhox War Monk. Thats 2 times a blind flip for 3 has ruined my game. He ends up Jacing me to death. Not much to note here except I'm pretty sure he was trying to put me on tilt by asking me literally over 5 times on his turn how many cards I have in hand, as well as a few times during each turn after that. I didn't really mind but damn was it getting annoying.

13-8-1 games
6-2-1 matches.

I miss day 2, but I realize my enjoyment in this game is winning with weird decks no one would think are good. I could have just taken merfolk like I've been playing off and on since whenever I first posted in that thread (and an awesome day of matchups I would have had for it!) but that is too boring for me.

Changes:
I'm not sure right now what specifically to do to fix the deck. Shriekmaw was MVP. From my original list I am now doing -2 Grave titan -2 Obstinate Baloth +3 Living Wish (one of each of those creatures is definitely in the board), +1 Maelstrom Pulse, -1 Finks, +1 Witness. Obby was taken out against every CB/top list I played, as a 4/4 is pretty terrible against control. Grave Titan was taken out against UWT, Tempo Thresh, and Burn. I like having him a lot because he's a trump card, but with 3 living wish I think it will work well. The only thing this actually hurts is it makes the deck a bit softer to CB/Top, but that's not a big deal because we still have a ton of other casting costs they can't hit.

Props:
Minneapolis players in general. I think 90% of the people at my local shop trekked out to Columbus.
Red Roof Inn. That place was freaking nice for how cheap it was.
Tip Top bar. Only place in Ohio that wasn't closed at night, with a bartender who had to work his ass off for all the magic players there, and got everything right.

Slops:
Bullshit judge DQs
Columbus (gravel roads in the downtown area?? Really???)
Ohio in general (shuts down at like 10:00)
Chicago traffic
Sooooo many draws. Heavy control with countertop may be an okay deck, but I heard more than one report of people dropping because they would go something like 1-0-3.


Anyone wanting sideboard notes on the matches can ask, I didn't bring any sheet with me and didn't write down what I did, but I'll be able to come up with the same plan again if you ask.


C Rayz, you really need help against the new madness matchups with Vengevine survival. I have been working on it but Extirpate isn't enough. Also glad you changed the name :tongue:.

[Nelis]

I did intend for it to be 61, but if I had to cut something I suppose I'd cut a Shriekmaw or Damnation. I'd be hesitant to drop the number of threats and I see the rest of the spells currently at their necessary numbers.

What would you cut?

I have no experience with the deck since I just put it together but I have cut a Thoughtseize for now.

[Galrael]

Has anyone thought about terravore in their lists instead of tarmogoyf? In many games I played Goyf was very small being a 2/3 or 1/2. I feel like post deathcloud terravore would be a house and we can run like 2 more fetches in the list to help enlarge terravore. Also i'm not sure how I feel about yavimaya elder in the lists as well.

[jrsthethird]

Got rocked by this twice today in a 40+ tournament. I was playing New Horizons. I had a possible out with Clique + Karakas but punted both games one round by letting it die. I really wish I hadn't taken my Jaces out for this matchup, it seems like Jace would've been a huge help late-game.

Also, Goyf was consistently 6/7 or 7/8 in every game, except when graveyards were nuked. They ran Garruk, which accounts for everything but Tribal between the two decks. The only bonus to running a 3-drop over Goyf is that you can nuke all 2 drops or less with Deed without disturbing your board position, but Goyf is so good you are willing to make that trade-off. Additionally, the deck doesn't run Wasteland or anything to dump lands in the yard besides Death Cloud, so Terravore will not be very big unless a Cloud resolves.

[C Rayz Walz]

Took the deck to a 40+ tourney on Saturday (mentioned in the comment above) so I thought I'd post a report.

Round 1- BUG Landstill (2-1)
Game 1- He drops Deed early and clears my board. Beats with Factories for a while then drops Jace 2.0, which fateseals the deal so to speak.
Game 2 (in go 3 Needles, 2 Crypts, and 2 Choke)- He gets mana flooded and I win with some creatures. Garruk holds off his 3 Factories.
Game 3- Early Needle to stop Jace. I have two mana open and he Spell Pierces my Top. I don't pay, play a land for turn, and drop Choke, which pretty much ends the game. Garruk provides the finish. Technically Game 3 could've been a draw because we reached time and were on turns, although he was a nice guy and gave me the win since I only needed another turn or two and the outcome was inevitable.

Round 2- New Horizons (2-1)
Game 1- Got a game loss because I misregistered my deck. I forgot I put in Maelstrom Pulse because I couldn't find Shriekmaws.
Game 2- (no board allowed) He Dazes my STE turn 2 and floats mana. It seemed like he thought I passed the turn and he drew a card, but I was still looking at my hand. He ended up getting a game loss.
Game 3- So we were allowed to board for this game, but I had no idea what he was running. I guessed Counterbalance and boarded Grips in, which did nothing. The deck was New Horizons though, which is a decent matchup. I control the board with Deeds, Damnation, and I have a Garruk on the board. If I draw Cloud I win. I don't draw Cloud, but I draw Witness and keep the board clear while attacking with 3/3s.

Round 3- UW Landstill (2-1)
Game 1- Landstill again. Ugh. Hard to play against with Death Cloud. Game 1 is nearly impossible against UW version. He plays Jace, I Pulse it, he stalls with STP and Factories and drops Elspeth for the win.
Game 2- I Needle an early Jace and resolve Death Cloud to clear his board with Garruk out. He scoops.
Game 3- I have double Goyf, he Wraths them away but taps out. I drop Choke to tap his Tundra, Volcanic, and double Island. He hits two more lands and plays Scepter/Chant (interesting). I Pulse it, he scoops.

Round 4- Pro Bant (1-2)
Game 1- Typically a match in Death Cloud's favor, but he gets the nuts draw- turn 3 Nat Order with FOW backup to stop Damnation/Cloud. Shit happens. GG.
Game 2- I resolve Death Cloud to kill his board and win.
Game 3- I make a play mistake and lose. He Needles for Deed, which I don't cast forgetting that I could cast it then Grip his Needle. I try to cast Cloud but he counters it, when I could've Witnessed to get back Thoughtseize to get the Cloud through. Lots of things I could've done, but I did none of them and lost to Nat Order. I could've drawn into the T8 with a win here, but I figure I'll just win the next round. After all, I couldn't get matched up against 3 Landstills in 5 rounds, could I?

Round 5- UW Landstill (1-2)
Game 1- I lose because Death Cloud almost always loses to Landstill pre-board.
Game 2- I won but I forget how.
Game 3- I resolve Choke, but it's minimally effective because his mana base is budget an he draws 3 Mystic Gates. He also top decks Jace and Nev's Disk like a champ, and I lose. Not a great matchup, so what can you do. It would be nice not to face it 3 times though. Officially eliminated from the T8 now.

Round 6- Merfolk (2-1)
Game 1- Lost this one. Vial, lots of fish, FOW for my Deed. Oh well.
Game 2- I deed his board and next Cloud his lands. I draw Goyf which wins it for me.
Game 3- Similar to Game 2 except I have Garruk on the board when I Cloud. I leave 2 mana open for Spell Pierce/Double Daze. He has no FOW and scoops.

Summary
So I went 4-2. Probably should've won the CB matchup, which would've gotten me to the T8. Play mistakes happen, and that's the thing with Death Cloud/Rock. You don't have many bad matchups, but the matches are usually close, so a little mistake here or there can lose it for you. I was happy with the deck. Yav Elder was nuts all day. Didn't play decks where Titan is good. I could've cast him vs Folk, but I had Garruk and Cloud so no need to. If he had the FOW for Cloud, I could cast Titan the next turn, so that was pretty much locked up. Pulse was good but maybe only because I played Landstill 3 times. For aggro Pulse might not cut it. My sideboard was 3 Crypt, 3 Needle, 2 Choke, 3 Finks. Choke and Needle helped the most.

[makochman]

Coming from a one-time The Rock player: how has Yavimaya Elder been? I'm curious if he can work in a format rife with Swords to Plowshares. Against decks that pack it he essentially becomes a 5-drop. Could Sylvan Ranger be a replacement? Or is the StP problem irrelevant for this deck?

[Phoenix Ignition]

Coming from a one-time The Rock player: how has Yavimaya Elder been? I'm curious if he can work in a format rife with Swords to Plowshares. Against decks that pack it he essentially becomes a 5-drop. Could Sylvan Ranger be a replacement? Or is the StP problem irrelevant for this deck?

Honestly that wasnt the problem that I took him out of my version, if an opponent is wasting a StP on your 2/1 for 3 then you're already ahead. The reason I took him out is that he just doesn't do enough when you need him to, and is pretty much only good when you are planning on Death Clouding the win. The problem is there are enough decks that you won't want to death cloud that you're going to have him just be a 2/1 who costs 3. Kitchen Finks are already a detriment in some matches exclusively because they are so small.

[TheSleeper]

PhoenixIgnition: Just a couple of questions on your list. Why no Garruk? On paper the synergy between Garruk & the sweepers looks good. Can also ramp you into a Titan (who I think is BOSS btw).

I was toying with a different Rock but am definitely going to take up a version of Death Cloud and see how I go. Keen to hear anyone elses latest testing results :)

Edit: I also wanted to ask everyones opinion on SDT and whether it deserves its place. If we were running Dark Confidant I could understand, but as it is it just seems a little random. Has anyone tried dropping it? Perhaps another 3 discard effects (duress etc). With the rise of UG Madness and other Survival decks in general, I'd rather be taking their Survival turn 1 than dropping SDT. That deck is scary fast.

[LOurs]

Nice list and nice concept.
I would have a couple of questions, but it is important to note I didn’t test the deck at the moment, so some of them could be pointless.

To increase basic land count is great with elders and pretty sure it helps to support death cloud (casting cost / sacrifice effect), and to deal easier with LD strategies, but did you test to implement a urborg/cabal coffer version a la train wreck ? It more hatable, but the counterpart is that you could get a huge acceleration. (coffers being the scariest B manas engine so I guess it could be good with deathcloud/grave titan. crop rotation could also be an assistance to get the needed land (either coffer/urborg or even waste/volrath in case of, and btw it is a strong ichoirid hate with bog). This calls a bit loam also, but maybe these ideas are too far from the current concept…

About creatures, I think you could give a test to persecutor : 6/6 flying trample for CMC4 is something that seems easy to get early in that deck, non graveyard dependant, and it could manage to deal a lot of damage before cloud. Btw, cloud is pretty synergical with it as his sacrifice litteraly gives you victory... (In that case also, cabal therapy could be an additional synergical card to test with it).

I saw that you’re running recursion (witness/volrath). Did you try genesis Considering that its mana cost is similar to witness/volrath ? it seems more synergical with deathcloud (you choose it as a discard) and less hatable as volrath is almost the only valuable target for opponents wasteland so I guess you should loose it often... Isnt it ?

Last thing Is about removal. Sure damnation could be crazy good, but don’t you need sometime “1 creature” removals for cheaper cost ? If it was the case, smallpox could be also nice, as a complement to deathcloud, before (to stabilize board position) or after (to cancel any good opponents restart…).

Let us know your results, this deck has something interesting in it.

[Tao]

Game 2- (no board allowed) He Dazes my STE turn 2 and floats mana. It seemed like he thought I passed the turn and he drew a card, but I was still looking at my hand. He ended up getting a game loss.

Wow, what kind of ruling is that? You were tapped out without being able to do anything. This is just so wrong.

[KevinTrudeau]

I've been testing the decklist in the OP on MWS, and it's been really good. Elders block Mermen all day, and a T5 Death Cloud for 4 because of Garruk is pretty awesome. I also love Grave Titan as a finisher, when he resolves the game is usually over. That being said, I think the deck should really go down to 60 cards, but I can't decide what to cut. The numbers for everything (3 Damnations, 2 Titan, 3 Death Cloud, etc.) are incredibly good, maybe Witness could come down to 2. The sideboard needs a bit of work. First, I would make the 3 graveyard slots be three different things, so that you can attack GY decks from 3 angles to avoid hate for them. I would suggest 1 Crypt, 1 Ravenous Trap, and either 1 Leyline of the Void or, as much as I dislike the card, 1 Extirpate for all of the Vengevine decks popping up. Obstinate Baloth in the side is good vs. Hymn to Tourach, but is a bit too narrow. I would suggest cutting him completely for Kitchen Finks. Here's a sideboard I would suggest:

2x Krosan Grip
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Extirpate
1x Ravenous Trap
3x Kitchen Finks
1x Pernicious Deed
2x Innocent Blood
3x Duress

Duress is Storm hate, Innocent Blood/Diabolic Edict is for Emrakul and Argothian Enchantress, Deed and Finks for Zoo and Mermen.

[keys]

Wow, what kind of ruling is that? You were tapped out without being able to do anything. This is just so wrong.

Thinking the same thing.

[NathanS2k]

Seems like a fun deck to play.

[C Rayz Walz]

I've been testing the decklist in the OP on MWS, and it's been really good. Elders block Mermen all day, and a T5 Death Cloud for 4 because of Garruk is pretty awesome. I also love Grave Titan as a finisher, when he resolves the game is usually over. That being said, I think the deck should really go down to 60 cards, but I can't decide what to cut. The numbers for everything (3 Damnations, 2 Titan, 3 Death Cloud, etc.) are incredibly good, maybe Witness could come down to 2. The sideboard needs a bit of work. First, I would make the 3 graveyard slots be three different things, so that you can attack GY decks from 3 angles to avoid hate for them. I would suggest 1 Crypt, 1 Ravenous Trap, and either 1 Leyline of the Void or, as much as I dislike the card, 1 Extirpate for all of the Vengevine decks popping up. Obstinate Baloth in the side is good vs. Hymn to Tourach, but is a bit too narrow. I would suggest cutting him completely for Kitchen Finks. Here's a sideboard I would suggest:

2x Krosan Grip
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Extirpate
1x Ravenous Trap
3x Kitchen Finks
1x Pernicious Deed
2x Innocent Blood
3x Duress

Duress is Storm hate, Innocent Blood/Diabolic Edict is for Emrakul and Argothian Enchantress, Deed and Finks for Zoo and Mermen.

I like the idea of running different GY hate spells so they can't all be accounted for. I'm not sure about Extirpate- it can be good, but until Vengevine starts seeing significant play I'm not sure it's needed. I agree with the switch from Baloth to Finks- I've already made that change in my version. An extra Deed is never a bad thing if you have room on the board. Duress is ok but I'm not sure it's needed. I don't think the current storm decks are that strong. Do you think the board needs Blood/Edict for Emrakul and Enchantress when it has 8 main deck ways to kill Emrakul and 9 main deck ways to kill Enchantress?

[antares]

Hey guys

I've been wanting to test this build for a while in Legacy since it is the Death Cloud list I ran last Extended Season with some nice results (nothing to awsome, though)

Death Cloud is probably the one and only deck I genuinely have fun with every single time I play.

Before I present you the list, a few notes:

- I only have 3 Tarmogoyfs;
- I do not have any Dual, that is why I use shocklands;
- I don't have Deed, so I figured I could leave Crime/Punishment in its place;

Well, onto the list:

3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Overgrown Tomb
5 Forest
6 Swamp
1 Maze of Ith
1 Twilight Mire

(23)

3 Tarmogoyf
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Obstinate Baloth
3 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Tombstalker

(18)

2 Damnation
2 Crime/Punishment
4 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Death Cloud
3 Thoughhtseize
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Sensei's Divining Top

(19)

Sideboard:

2 Choke
3 Krosan Grip
3 Extirpate
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Duress
3 Great Sable Stag

I ran a couple of tests against Zoo, Merfolks and Landstill so I have no idea how well does it perform against the common MU in my local metagame which consists (sadly) mainly of Merfolks, Survival and Rock/Junk.

Share your thoughts if you will lol

Cheers,

Tiago aka Antares

[Qweerios]

What do you guys think of Viridian Emissary instead of STE? Also, Explore is quite powerful when it comes to ramping. Viridian Emissary has great synergy with Cabal Therapy, Innocent Blood.. and those cards even work well with Percy and Finks. Also, an argument in favor of Tombstalker would be its great synergy with Pernicious Deed wether its pre or post cloud you get to sweep the board while preserving your threat. Here is what I would consider:


Creatures (12)
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Eternal Witness
2 Abyssal Persecutor

Spells (21)
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
0 Innocent Blood
3 Death Cloud
4 Explore
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Pernicious Deed

Artifacts (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands (23)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Forest
7 Swamp


As much as I like Innocent Blood and Percy in this list I can't quite fit them. So many good cards to choose from...

[NyxathidHorror]

This deck is almost always an uphill battle when you're sitting on the other side of the table; looks insanely fun to play. I'm going to give OP's build a shot, and see what I can come up with.

[C Rayz Walz]

Viridian Emissary has one big flaw. The reason why STE is so good in this list is that you can always get a shuffle effect when you what it. Sure, he might be good with cabal therapy, but I would really hate to lose that instant shuffle effect making our top so much better. Also, I notice you have explore in your list and that does seem pretty interesting, but the problem I have with it, is that a lot of times it might be just a 2 mana draw card, and that seems pretty awful to me. I am sure that there will be times where the card can help us win, but for the most part, it just seems to fragile. Your mana base seems pretty bad as well. We have a lot of double green in our deck and with only 2 forest and 4 bayou that does not seem enough and you only run 4 fetches that get a basic forest. One of the big reasons why I have done well with this deck is because I do not get blown out by wasteland. Some people might think that this deck is easy to play, but it is harder than what you think. I personally don't like Percy at all. TS is just better than duress in the main deck imo. Thanks for the interest and the time you put up to write up your list.

[muscleb]

I dont think the Viridian dude should be counted out so fast. I think he could be a solid with maybe just 2, as said its tight with cabal therapy and sweepers. Also being able to trade with a merfolk early game and still getting a land etc.
With white the deck has access to Sun Titan to get back deeds and witness all the time, but I think that could stress out the manabase alot.

[C Rayz Walz]

Adding white is a terrible idea. I have tested it and it just does not work. The viridian guy isn't horrible, I just like being able to fetch my land at my own will. Not needing a sac outlet is what makes STE a lot better in this deck. I will say that one of the most important cards in this deck is top, and I am really considering going to 4 top although that is a lot, but that card is just that good. with the new guy in the deck I feel that it makes our tops not as strong and that is something that I do not like at all. I will test him though just to see if I am right, please test him as well and let me know what you guys think.

[muscleb]

Played a bit with Viridian Emmisary. Sure the guy has its moments but you would need the ramp pretty badly and didnt have a way of getting him in the yard. He got cut.

[C Rayz Walz]

Yea I also tried him out and he was pretty bad most of the time. Not being able to fetch lands when you want is really bad for this deck, and the card is pretty bad in the late game as well since it is harder to get a shuffle effect from him. What are some of you guys running for removal? Right now I have smother, deed, and cloud. Just want to see what other people are using as removal to see what is the best route to take.

[Erdvermampfa]

So how has the deck been doing so far? Anyone still testing it? In my opinion a very underestimated strategy since the high curve and the high amount of basics deny popular strategies to be successful and Deathcloud is a good card in almost every matchup ( even vs control the land/handhate is pure win ). I've been working on a BG Ramprock with Garruks and Titan too, so im just curious.

[C Rayz Walz]

I actually played this deck last Tuesday at a small tournament (19 people) and got 5th with it. I actually ran 2 grave titan and 1 wurm coil in the sb but when I sb them in, I never drew them and even really never wanted them. Not sure if I am going to keep them in my 75. After that tournament I am putting the 4th deed in the main deck since that card is just so good in this deck. Right now I am running 3 unearths but I am going to take one out for that deed. I also want to try to fit eternal witness in to the deck. Can you post your list?

[Erdvermampfa]

I actually played this deck last Tuesday at a small tournament (19 people) and got 5th with it.
Sounds promising.

I actually ran 2 grave titan and 1 wurm coil in the sb but when I sb them in, I never drew them and even really never wanted them. Not sure if I am going to keep them in my 75.
Well i guess wurmcoil engine is pretty good against aggrodecks with a good amount of burnspells, but its splitting ability isn't that great in this format. Grave Titan has got the advantage that if it gets swords'ed or path'ed u' ll still have 2 tokens to beat with.

After that tournament I am putting the 4th deed in the main deck since that card is just so good in this deck.
Seems ok to me, in some matchups it's really gamebreaking, but i've encountered decks which rely on rather quality than quantity when it comes to creatures ( such as JUNK, New Horizons ) and vs. these decks Deed isn't that good I think.

Right now I am running 3 unearths but I am going to take one out for that deed. I also want to try to fit eternal witness in to the deck.
I've always been a fan of unearth although people use to say " it's worthless due to swords and path ", but honestly, that's not the case. Your creatures often get countered and it's not like swords is the only removal card used in the format...( lightnings, weirding, gempalm, terminate, innocent blood, edicts etc. ). Especially combined with Witness this card is really good and after playing death cloud it might help you to refresh faster. Only thing I wonder about is whether you have got enough targets in your list ( reading the thread i guess it's 4 finks and 0-4 yavimaya elder, 4 ste, 0-3 witness ? )

Can you post your list?
yes sure, but i admit this isn't much about deathcloud, but I think I'll give it a try since it ought to improve the U-control matchup which isn't in our favor even with sb chokes etc.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
2 [10E] Forest (1)
6 [OD] Swamp (3)
3 [A] Bayou
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [REW] Wasteland
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [JGC] Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
3 [M11] Grave Titan
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 [LRW] Shriekmaw

// Spells
3 [M10] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [OD] Innocent Blood
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
2 [PLC] Damnation
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
2 [WWK] Explore

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TE] Choke
SB: 3 [TE] Perish
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 2 [FNM] Duress

[C Rayz Walz]

unearth- This card is really good, but right now I think deed is just so strong right now. You also forget that unearth gets back gofy. My creature package for the tournament were 4 gofy, 4 finks, 4 ste, and 2 yav elder. After playing the card over and over again I think 2 is the right answer.

Deed- Most junk decks are running mox d so If I able to take those out with a creature then I am getting my card advantage from it. It also just destroys some decks, and I tend to board the 4th deed in every game so I put the 4th in the main.

Grave titan/ wurm coil- yea, I wanted them vs the aggro decks, but I tend to never need them. the zoo match up is already insane and merfolk I have only lost once in a tournament to. Now, grave titan is pretty good in the goblin match up so I might put him back in since that all of the aggro decks I do feel that one to be the hardest to fight. I do think he is pretty bad vs control decks so that is why I had him in the board.

your deck- I don't like the fact that you run both factory and wasteland in addition to forest since you play hymn. from your list that I see that you run 4 tops. I think that I might go up to 4 tops as well since I always want that amazing card. Blood is also interesting as well.

[C Rayz Walz]

What do you guys think about sbing 3 natural order and one pro? Do you think it would be good? not needed? Some told me to try it and I am not convince if I should have it yet. Thoughts?

[C Rayz Walz]

OK guys so now that the new Garruk has been spoil what do you guys think on this guy.

He is
2ggg
Planeswalker - Garruk
+1: Put a 3/3 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield.
-3: Draw cards equal to the greatest power among creatures you control.
-6: Put a 6/6 green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield for each land you control.

I really like the 1st two abilities. Adding loyalty and making a 3/3 is great, but I think the real power is drawing cards. Especially when you have gofy out. I really like that and to be honest with the old garruk I have been not using his adding mana for deathcloud for a while now. Now sometimes I need it, but I don't think it is that important.
Come on guys I need some real feed back. Please give me your imput

MY concern is the 5 mana and the triple g. What do you guys think? Please give me your thoughts I would appreciate it!

[Mr. Froggy]

OK guys so now that the new Garruk has been spoil what do you guys think on this guy.

He is
2ggg
Planeswalker - Garruk
+1: Put a 3/3 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield.
-3: Draw cards equal to the greatest power among creatures you control.
-6: Put a 6/6 green Wurm creature token onto the battlefield for each land you control.

I really like the 1st two abilities. Adding loyalty and making a 3/3 is great, but I think the real power is drawing cards. Especially when you have gofy out. I really like that and to be honest with the old garruk I have been not using his adding mana for deathcloud for a while now. Now sometimes I need it, but I don't think it is that important.
Come on guys I need some real feed back. Please give me your imput

MY concern is the 5 mana and the triple g. What do you guys think? Please give me your thoughts I would appreciate it!

I think the restrictive GGG on Garruk might not make him so playable. I love his +1 ability, and his -3 as well, but I don't think the mana cost makes them relevant enough.

[Greenpoe]

The decklist in the primer has Gravetitan (6 mana) and Garruk's only 5.

[Mr. Froggy]

That's true, but its the triple G that scares me a bit.

[C Rayz Walz]

Yea, that is true, but one is ggg where deathcloud is bbb. I think both have their pro's and cons and I am trying to figure out which is the best way to go. Please keep commenting please.

[Mr. Froggy]

I would rather cast Death Cloud's BBB rather than GGG, because I feel like Death Cloud would win more games. I'll have to test Garruk though, and see what happens then.

[C Rayz Walz]

Yea, Deathcloud does when I cast it. I need something to back it up with though and I do like the plus 1 making a 3/3. Drawing cards off gofy as well seems pretty awesome. Like you said his mana cost is an huge issue as it is 5 mana. Just not sure which one is better for our deck

[Mr. Froggy]

Yeah, I see what you mean. Drawing off Goyf does seem pretty awesome though, but I still think Death Cloud is still best for the deck because it rips the opponent apart. I am a fan of ripping people apart. :)

[C Rayz Walz]

Yea, I agree with you. Death Cloud is by far the most powerful spell in our deck. The card just wins games, but I like having other ways of winning and I do not want to depend solely on DC to win me every game if you get what I mean.