[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[angel882]

Here's the list I ran:

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Terravore
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light & Shadow
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library

4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard
3 Spell Pierce
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Gut Shot
1 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
2 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring

Spell Pierce wasn't used enough during the day, since I didn't run against Burn. I'm thinking I'll cut it for more dedicated combo hate +1 Canonist and possibly 2 Leyline of Sanctity. This would allow me to cut the Tropical and go back down to 21 land + Dryad Arbor as I've been playing forever now. The extra slot in the maindeck will probably switch to Aven Mindcensor(s). Elspeth still doesn't get along well with Thalia, and the extra flying creatures are better to fight Delvers. Mindcensor also has some good uses vs combo & the mirror, so it's much better than Elspeth right now.

Stoneforge Mystic was added back in after I was disappointed by needing to draw Jitte the hard ways. Playing with two is fine, gives me the right tool at the right time, and allows me to play SoLS too, which is still good.

Keep in mind this is tailored to my metagame, and not every metagame is the same. There's about 5-8 flex slots in the deck - use them appropriately.

Hi, what are those extra slots you are switching to Mindcensors? Atm my meta is full of Dredge (40%) and Reanimator (10-20%) so I'm playing this list

Creatures(27)
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mother of Runes
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Terravore
1x Aven Mindcensor

Spells(11)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow

Lands(22)
4x Savannah
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Bojuka Bog

SB:
3 Gut Shot
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Path to Exile
2 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Maze of Ith
2 Surgical Extraction

I' not sure is Tower of the Magistrate needed in SB. Maybe replace it with another Path. I also would like to add another Mindcensor in MD but don't know what to remove :frown:. Any advice??

[DrHealex]

aven mindcensor, Terravore, 3rd quasali pridemage, and 3rd ooze are all cards that are generally considered flexible. Terravore being the likely choice of replacement since he is JUST a finisher.

IF it is as you claim with your field being 50%-60% graveyard decks, You could also look into loaming shaman since ooze wont do enough once they get a few dredges on ya and its a nice way to reset. crop rotation is also pretty decent vs both of them :D

Tower aint bad, but I would value it less than maze in usefulness.

As a sidenote, when Did the 3noble/1bop split fall out of favor. The mirror is all about evasion (moms or not), and that little guy has won me many a game. IT'S also a nice way to pay for pacts, (i have totally metamorphed my own bop vs hivemind before)

[Koby]

Crop Rotation is something I've been wanting to try out. It improves the use of Bog and Cradle in conjunction with Ooze against graveyard decks. It's pretty fun to blow people out when they don't expect you to activate "Knight" out of nowhere.

[Rizso]

Anyone considered that Cavern of Soul might have a home in maverick? Important humans Knight of the Reliquary, Mother of Runes, Thalia, Noble Hierarch and Loyal Retainers. And can still be used for colorless mana for your GSZ.

[Fade]

Anyone considered that Cavern of Soul might have a home in maverick? Important humans Knight of the Reliquary, Mother of Runes, Thalia, Noble Hierarch and Loyal Retainers. And can still be used for colorless mana for your GSZ.

It was discussed a few pages back and the consensus believes that if it is even played at all it would just be a one of in the deck. This is because it adds another wastelandable card to the mana base, it doesn't provide green or white mana to all of the non-human cards in the deck (Green Sun, Swords, etc), it can not be sac'd to a Knight, and most of the time you shouldn't really care if they are countering your spells as the next turn you should be able to land another threat.

[Dzra]

It was discussed a few pages back and the consensus believes that if it is even played at all it would just be a one of in the deck. This is because it adds another wastelandable card to the mana base, it doesn't provide green or white mana to all of the non-human cards in the deck (Green Sun, Swords, etc), it can not be sac'd to a Knight, and most of the time you shouldn't really care if they are countering your spells as the next turn you should be able to land another threat.

A one-of seems pretty pointless since if you land a KotR to fetch it, they are likely spent on counters anyways. If anything, I could see potentially dropping Horizon Canopy, etc to try to squeeze it in as a 3-of. That way you'd at least see it early enough to make it relevant. Cutting Forests/Plains is troublesome because you need to feed them to KotR. Like most people are saying though, I'm not sure the deck needs a lot of help against counters.

[Avatar of Light]

Question for Fade: In your sideboard plans, you're taking out 2 Thalias in some of them, but your list only lists 1 Thalia. What did you cut for the second one?

[Fade]

Question for Fade: In your sideboard plans, you're taking out 2 Thalias in some of them, but your list only lists 1 Thalia. What did you cut for the second one?

When I wrote that I actually had cut the Sylvan Library. I guess I had not noticed it when I looked at the list. Right now I'm running 61 cards which is that list including the Thalia. I'm trying to see which card needs to be cut and right now it looks like it could be the Elspeth, Terravore, or Aven Mindcensor. But it's too hard to decide right now and since I'm playing the list locally I don't find myself needing to rush to a conclusion.


A one-of seems pretty pointless since if you land a KotR to fetch it, they are likely spent on counters anyways. If anything, I could see potentially dropping Horizon Canopy, etc to try to squeeze it in as a 3-of. That way you'd at least see it early enough to make it relevant. Cutting Forests/Plains is troublesome because you need to feed them to KotR. Like most people are saying though, I'm not sure the deck needs a lot of help against counters.

My reason for the one of was because I really only care about resolving Mother of runes and Loyal Retainers. Anything else can be GSZ for. Having the one of would allow me to fetch it up with Knight and play the Loyal Retainers without it getting countered. I wouldn't dilute the mana base with running cavern as a 3 of due to the other spells in the deck that you want to cast in the early game.

[Avatar of Light]

When I wrote that I actually had cut the Sylvan Library. I guess I had not noticed it when I looked at the list. Right now I'm running 61 cards which is that list including the Thalia. I'm trying to see which card needs to be cut and right now it looks like it could be the Elspeth, Terravore, or Aven Mindcensor. But it's too hard to decide right now and since I'm playing the list locally I don't find myself needing to rush to a conclusion.

Forgot to add this to my last question: how's the Gavony Township working for you?

[KobeBryan]

Questions to those who want to use cavern of souls.

Do you really care if people counter your creatures? Maverick is made to beat blue decks. The power of it is to power through the counters with amazing top decks each turn.

Why make ur lands more vulnerable?

[Fade]

Forgot to add this to my last question: how's the Gavony Township working for you?

Breaks the mirror and other aggro decks if the game goes long. The card even allows you to be aggressive after your board has been swept by a Wrath or Perish. Conclusion: I would rather run Gavony Township than Cavern of Souls.

[Fatal]

How does it break mirror ? With wastelands all around ?

[lyracian]

How does it break mirror ? With wastelands all around ?If you tutor for it with Knight you should get at least two activations before they get a chance to lay another Wasteland. Making all your Hierarchs into 2/3 critters seems quite powerful.

[Fade]

How does it break mirror ? With wastelands all around ?

What lyracian said is true. But even dropping it down on your turn when there is a stalemate on board is devastating. Giving any flyer just one +1/+1 activation is a significant clock when you also have exalted triggers. It could also be the crucial +1/+1 to Knight that allows you to swing in for the win with the help of Mother of Runes.

Having the card in your deck doesn't make you automatically win the match up but it is nice when all of your normal guys are bigger than your opponents. At that point, the only thing your opponent could have is a bigger Knight or Terravore and if they don't answer the Township with a wasteland your creatures will continue to become bigger and bigger threats.

[GoblinZ]

Forgot to add this to my last question: how's the Gavony Township working for you?

I begin to test this card, it seems a little awkward at first glance, but it may be an answer to dread of night or sulfer elemental etc...

[Julian23]

I'm not convinced. The mirror all comes down to connecting with Umezawa's Jitte so you can disable opposing Mother of Runes. Other highly relevant cards are Maze of Ith, Aven Mindcensor and - if you run the Fauna Shaman Engine - Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Also, having more Knights usually helps a lot. Having the 2nd Umezawa's Jitte in your deck essential.

Don't get me wrong. I like people trying to eventually "break" the mirror "open" in a sense, that skill won't just matter up to a certain point. However, giving "the crucial +1/+1 to Knight that allows you to swing in for the win" isn't even the so-called "danger of cool things", it's just not worth it.

[Fade]

I'm not convinced. The mirror all comes down to connecting with Umezawa's Jitte so you can disable opposing Mother of Runes. Other highly relevant cards are Maze of Ith, Aven Mindcensor and - if you run the Fauna Shaman Engine - Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Also, having more Knights usually helps a lot. Having the 2nd Umezawa's Jitte in your deck essential.

Don't get me wrong. I like people trying to eventually "break" the mirror "open" in a sense, that skill won't just matter up to a certain point. However, giving "the crucial +1/+1 to Knight that allows you to swing in for the win" isn't even the so-called "danger of cool things", it's just not worth it.

I think you are taking what I posted out of context. I said it breaks the mirror if the game goes long. When you get to that point where both decks are top decking, if you have a Gavony out and your opponent doesn't then you are probably going to win the game. I also said it could give Knight the crucial +1/+1. Does it always happen ... of course not but has it happened, yes.

People play the mirror match up differently. I for one tend not to rely on equipment as one can just tutor up a pridemage or play one of their own Jittes. If it comes up I will play it to my advantage but I'm not going to feel safe just because I connected once with a Jitte. Swordings Mother/Knight is quite possibly the best thing you could do. Flyers do matter in the mirror even if it is just a Scryb ranger and what's nice about the Gavony is it will pump your flyer to make a faster clock.

I'm not saying Gavony is made for the deck. In fact, it's only in there for the games that go long. But all I'm trying to put out there is Gavony might deserve the 22nd land slot instead of a second Canopy or instead of a Cavern of Souls for those who are considering that option.

[Koby]

From my experience, the mirror comes down to one of three scenarios:

A) One player has put the opponent into mana screw; either by luck or by Wasteland. That player cannot develop his board. This player has lost "initiative".
B) One player has an active Mother of Runes and is able to ignore any advancement in board position. This player has gained "initiative".
C) Both players are attempting to maintain good board position and keep a Mother of Runes active. No player has "initiative".

(A) tends to happen quite frequently from my experience. It only takes 1 missed land drop to fall behind.

The cards that truly matter in the mirror are Mother of Runes and <Walking-Abyss or evasive creature>. The latter is merely a way to close the game. All cards being suggested to "break the mirror" are merely derivatives of these two goals.

Example:
Gideon Jura causes a player to lose initiative.
Linvala forces a player to lose initiative.
Maze of Ith controls evasive breakthroughs.
Parallax Wave causes a player to lose initiative and simultaneously gain it yourself. (double whammy)
Elesh Norn causes a player to lose initiative and simultaneously gain "evasion".
Gut Shot allows a player to shut off Mother of Runes before initiative is gained.
Connecting with Jitte allows a player to regain initiative.
etc

It still comes down to whoever can control Mother of Runes active.

[Asthereal]

Yes, initiative and having an active Mother of Runes is very important.
Also, Aven Mindcensor can make a hughe difference.

In my experience, winning game one is VERY important. The winner of game one can defend and stall the match out until time and a 1-0-1 result.

If you expect a lot of mirror matches, you should include 3 Aven Mindcensors in the main deck + the proper equipment package (so you will probably win game one), and things that stop your opponent from having initiative in the sideboard, like Gut Shots and perhaps Gideon Jura or so.

Last tourney I played with Mav I expected little mirrors, but had to play two. One I won because I had more experience playing the deck, and the other I lost because he had Mindcensors and I didn't, which really messed up my game plan. Even Elspeth couldn't rescue me in that one...

[Fade]

From my experience, the mirror comes down to one of three scenarios:

A) One player has put the opponent into mana screw; either by luck or by Wasteland. That player cannot develop his board. This player has lost "initiative".
B) One player has an active Mother of Runes and is able to ignore any advancement in board position. This player has gained "initiative".
C) Both players are attempting to maintain good board position and keep a Mother of Runes active. No player has "initiative".

(A) tends to happen quite frequently from my experience. It only takes 1 missed land drop to fall behind.

The cards that truly matter in the mirror are Mother of Runes and <Walking-Abyss or evasive creature>. The latter is merely a way to close the game. All cards being suggested to "break the mirror" are merely derivatives of these two goals.

Example:
Gideon Jura causes a player to lose initiative.
Linvala forces a player to lose initiative.
Maze of Ith controls evasive breakthroughs.
Parallax Wave causes a player to lose initiative and simultaneously gain it yourself. (double whammy)
Elesh Norn causes a player to lose initiative and simultaneously gain "evasion".
Gut Shot allows a player to shut off Mother of Runes before initiative is gained.
Connecting with Jitte allows a player to regain initiative.
etc

It still comes down to whoever can control Mother of Runes active.

These may be the most common situations in the mirror but the game is dependent on every decision you make and what cards you actually play. I for one have never lost a mirror match after resolving a Sylvan Library, it just finds everything you need most of the time.

Having a Mother of Runes when your opponent has a beater with flying is also problematic. You either have to swords it, find Maze of Ith, or get a flyer of your own out.

[Krondo9]

I played Maverick yesterday with a blue splash and ended up in 13th at the SCG Legacy Open In Providence. I have a few comments to make about the deck and the specific list I played.

1. Fauna Shaman is insane, it helps your combo matchup signficantly, allowing to ditch any useless card (Noble Hierarch, Dryad Arbor, Qasali Pridemage) for one that you really need, i.e. Ethersworn Canonist, Gaddock Teeg, even Thalia. In my Rd 6 matchup against High Tide, I was able to get All 3 of the forementioned "stoppers" out against Tide, all because of a Fauna Shaman on the board. Against Combo Elves, I was able to get Linvala as well, although he ended up being able to beat me down with mass elves because he was just a turn ahead of me having been on the play.

2. 3 Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm is really good as something that people just don't expect. Against Maverick in Rd 1, I played a Spell Pierce that countered a swords to plowshares on my knight, which allowed me to connect for 10 and close out the game quickly thereafter. It's not something that most players will play around, because they don't expect you to be playing blue. However, if they do play around it and respect the threat of spell pierce, that gives you the extra turn or 2 that you need to just beat them down with knights/thalias/oozes.

3. Linvala is definitely a gamebreaker, as well as aven mindcensor. I highly recommend running both of them, as well as Fauna Shaman. I did not play during the survival era, but seeing how powerful shaman is, I can only imagine how broken survival of the fittest was. I definitely think it is correct to be playing shaman over stoneforge, since you're only running 2 jittes these days anyways. the 2nd stoneforge is mostly just a squire at that pt.

My only losses were to combo elves in Rd 2 and to Kevin Jones playing Esper Stoneblade in Rd 8 for win and in. It was a difficult matchup in both scenarios, with elves being just a turn faster and getting out elves before i could drop linvala. Stoneblade blew me out with a maindeck zealous persecution on my noble and mother in game 1, and then I had to mull to 5 on the play in game 2 to lose fairly easily thereafter. Congrats to Kevin for Top8ing!

Final Thoughts:
I highly recommend this deck as it is very intuitive and extremely consistent. (I rarely needed to mulligan). It has good game against all the decks, and shaman makes it even better against combo, as well as your pierces/flusterstorms. It's an autowin against Delver most of the time, since Choke completely locks them out of the game.

P.S. My tournament matches throughout the day:
Rd 1. Maverick - W2-0
Rd 2. Combo Elves - L2-0
Rd 3. Rock - W2-0
Rd 4. Feature Match Thopter-Stoneblade W2-0
Rd 5. Dredge - W2-0
Rd 6. High Tide - W2-0
Rd 7. Dredge - W2-1
Rd 8. Feature Match Esper Stoneblade L2-0
Rd 9. RUG Delver W2-0

Finally Record: 7-2

If anyone has any requests, I could write a tournament report too. Good luck everyone and remember to always have fun :)

[DrHealex]

WOW, 8-1 and didn't make top 8? That is either incorrect or just absurd.

I played in a tourney with a 1 of shaman, he got sworded instantly in the mirror which i suppose is fine. ONLY time i saw him. I think I will cut my mystics down to 1 since you can basically just tutor for equipment in a few easy steps :D (I still like/play SoLS), the only other cuts I can see making is pridemage down to 2 for myself or witness.

i also cannot see myself playing Linvala MD. It's pretty mediocre to bad vs everything not maverick/elves.

[Koby]

Round 8 was a loss, so 7-2. I've looked at your list and like a lot of what it's doing. Looks much more stream lined to me than the Loyal Retainers builds. Congrats!

Linvala is also fine against RUG and UR Delver lists. 4 toughness flyer > Lightning Bolt and Delver.

[Krondo9]

Yeah I miswrote one of them. I was 7-2 haha. I expected to see a lot of maverick so I played Linvala Main. She wasnt ever terrible. Shes good against Stoneblade too because they cant flash in batterskull then. Also, having them Swords your shaman is WAY better than having them swords your KOTR. Shaman is kind of like GSZ 5-6. she can basically give you any creature in your deck if she untaps.

Thanks Koby!

[DrHealex]

Round 8 was a loss, so 7-2. I've looked at your list and like a lot of what it's doing. Looks much more stream lined to me than the Loyal Retainers builds.
Indeed. I am also a strong advocate of retainer builds being cute, clunky, and as fulfilling as a professional one night stand for $150.

Linvala is also fine against RUG and UR Delver lists. 4 toughness flyer > Lightning Bolt and Delver.
That would fall in the mediocre catagory where one miraculously resolves a 4 mana creature against an already positive matchup :D

[Krondo9]

against RUG Delver I board:

In: 2 Path to Exile, 2 Choke, Surgical Extraction, Bojuka Bog, Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm (Depends if I see cursed totem)
Out: Elspeth, Linvala, 3x Qasali Pridemage, Sylvan Library, Karakas

But yeah, its basically unlosable. I've tested the matchup extensively

[kwelts]

how is ulvenwald tracker in legacy?

[Koby]

That would fall in the mediocre catagory where one miraculously resolves a 4 mana creature against an already positive matchup :D

Mediocre - yes. But not dead weight like Elspeth. It's not any better than resolving a 4/4+ Knight, but being able to slow down Delvers is a big boon. That said, I think its correct to board it out in SB games.

[Snap_Keep]

Nicolas Becvar Tilt Master?

He had absolutely no business scooping G1 and G2 kept an unplayable 6... How did he make top 8?! I get that people get tired... but c'mon, keep it together!!

[Koby]

Played in a small event locally. Went 3-1-1 then lost in Top 8 to the mirror.

Mainboard
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Fauna Shaman
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger

4 Sword to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Path to Exile
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Circle of Protection: Red

Round 1 - Breakfast (2-1) win g1, lost g2 cuz I didn't see anything g1 brought in back the StPs, then won handily
Round 2 - RDW (2-0) COP red.
Round 3 - TES (1-2) lost the die roll, lost games 1 and 3 before I hit 2 mana.
Round 4 - Deadguy (2-1) Won G1, then lost control G2 against a Turn 3 Liliana backed by Perish, StP, Edict, Massacre, etc etc etc. Sylvan Library did work overtime to keep up, but couldn't stick a threat to kill Lily all game. Won a close G3 against active Jitte by holding it down with Mom.
Round 5 - ID
Top 8 - Mirror, lost in G3 when I drew 3 lands in a row with my starting 4 in hand, couldn't find one of 17 answers (QPM x3 GSZ x4 Jitte x2 SFM x1 STP x4 PTE x2 Maze of Ith) = at least 33% chance. Oh well. (Linvala is a baus in the mirror in the maindeck)

[NathanS2k]

Played in a small event yesterday with Koby. Went 3-2 and top 8'ed to my surprise. Then lost to Bant Troll.

Mainboard
4 noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Aven Mindcenser
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Terravore
1 Scryb Ranger

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 plains
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 horizon Canopy
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
3 Gut Shot
2 Path to Exile
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Choke

Round 1- RDW (1-2)
Round 2- Bant Maverick (0-2)
Round 3- MUD (2-1)
Round 4- U/R Delver (2-0)
Round 5- Pox (2-1)

Top 8- G1, Mana screwed my opponent then a quick beat down Aven Mindcensor with Qasali Pridemage and Noble Hierarch exalted triggers. G2, my opponent kind of mana screwed me after Dazing my t1 Noble Hierarch and I was stuck on 2 land the entire game. G3, Troll with Spectral Flight killed me, not much interaction at all.

[neenjafus]

I also went to the same tourney as the previous two posters. Managed to pull out a victory despite multiple misplays! I'm very comfortable with the deck however added the shaman and linvala the day of the tournament. As such, I didn't have a chance to test the exact build and that led to some misplays. Also, my unfamiliarity with the mirror was quite evident although I did beat it twice.

Can't really find fault with the archetype as it's served me quite well over the past few months. I highly recommend it but also recommend plenty of playtesting.

Creatures
2 Fauna Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger

Enchantments
1 Sylvan Library

Instants
4 Swords to Plowshares

Legendary Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Legendary Creatures
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Basic Lands
2 Forest
1 Plains

Lands
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Tropical Island

Land Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor

Legendary Lands
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Path to Exile
3 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Gut Shot

[KobeBryan]

How do you guys beat sneak attack? Especially now with Griselbrand as a target for show and tell and sneak attack.

[Koby]

How do you guys beat sneak attack? Especially now with Griselbrand as a target for show and tell and sneak attack.

LOLwut? Lunch break man.

[NathanS2k]

How do you guys beat sneak attack? Especially now with Griselbrand as a target for show and tell and sneak attack.

I would imagine the same way how we beat Reanimator. When they Show and Tell to drop Sneak Attack/Griselbrand, we drop KotR/Karakas or fetched for Karakas with KotR. Or attempt to Swords it and hope they could not find a counter for it.

[angel882]

I would imagine the same way how we beat Reanimator. When they Show and Tell to drop Sneak Attack/Griselbrand, we drop KotR/Karakas or fetched for Karakas with KotR. Or attempt to Swords it and hope they could not find a counter for it.

Yeah I think that it's easier for us if they drop Griselbrand over Emrakul. You have Karakas and Stop for Griselbrand. And if they draw multiple cards you just race them :wink:

[useL]

Yeah I think that it's easier for us if they drop Griselbrand over Emrakul. You have Karakas and Stop for Griselbrand. And if they draw multiple cards you just race them :wink:

Two ridiculous quotes coming off each other.

So he plays Show and Tell, it resolves and you play Karakas. He plays Sneak Attack and activates it and puts Griselbrand into play. He then draws 7, you bounce? If you dont bounce he can swing and draw 7 more, if you bounce you are tapped out for the Lotus Petal+Emrakul he just drew.

So he plays Show and Tell, it resolves, you play Knight of the Reliquary. He puts in play Griselbrand, draws 14 (if he has the life, otherwise 7) and then puts in another dude with Petal and swings for lethal.

Sneak and Show is not like reanimator in any way or form.

[conley1000000]

To me against sneak and show, or show & tell/hivemind type decks the best plan of attack is thalia+wasteland. Alot of that depends on being on the play/draw but if you land a thalia and have wastelands to back it up while building an attack force/karakas trying to tempo them is the best form of defense I've tested. These, again my opinion, are the decks that Maverick is weakest to. The bullet vs. combo is usually teeg, but show and tell gets right around him. There are alot of ways to try and combat them, and pridemage is good to take out the sneak attack.

[Koby]

Argh this is frustrating me to no end:

How do we effectively answer the combo matchup from killing us before we get a chance to lay down a hate-bear? I keep trying to look at the blue splash for Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm, but I don't get the impression that it helps (nevermind the added benefit against Burn and dedicated spell-control decks).

Leyline of Sanctity is also highly variant and we can't afford to mulligan to get it when UB/x and High Tide already bring in bounce to deal with hate bears.

What about Chalice of the Void @ 0 to stop their ridiculous mana accel? Chalice @ 1 is better vs them, but we need something for Turn 0 and turn 1.

Silence/Orim's Chant as the proactive answer, but limited in application.

Thoughts? Is the matchup infrequent enough to even bother?

[Sloshthedark]

Argh this is frustrating me to no end:

How do we effectively answer the combo matchup from killing us before we get a chance to lay down a hate-bear? I keep trying to look at the blue splash for Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm, but I don't get the impression that it helps (nevermind the added benefit against Burn and dedicated spell-control decks).

Leyline of Sanctity is also highly variant and we can't afford to mulligan to get it when UB/x and High Tide already bring in bounce to deal with hate bears.

What about Chalice of the Void @ 0 to stop their ridiculous mana accel? Chalice @ 1 is better vs them, but we need something for Turn 0 and turn 1.

Silence/Orim's Chant as the proactive answer, but limited in application.

Thoughts? Is the matchup infrequent enough to even bother?

I can't see benefits in having mana open for Chant (or wider application of it), Chalice is interesting but leaves me with mixed feelings you're still dead T0 but Chalice on 1 and hatebear sounds good, I'd expect more with Cavern of Souls

If you have to play Mindbreak Trap, it's most narrow but one can't check both ground and hand most time (and protects T0), or just accept you lose to some deck more often like any other deck... by printing Thalia Maverick can actually win with Storm, that is ridiculous =/

[KobeBryan]

I would imagine the same way how we beat Reanimator. When they Show and Tell to drop Sneak Attack/Griselbrand, we drop KotR/Karakas or fetched for Karakas with KotR. Or attempt to Swords it and hope they could not find a counter for it.

Doesn't work that way man.

When Griselbrand drops, and without being countered, they can just draw 7. You cannot stop the effect regardless because it goes on the stack.

With that new 7, they can easily draw 1 prog, 1 emrukhal and another to swing in for the win with sneak attack.

[Koby]

With that new 7, they can easily draw 1 prog, 1 emrukhal and another to swing in for the win with sneak attack.

Like I said, lunch break. Without something extreme like Ensnaring Bridge, this matchup is pretty bad. Sneak Show is one of those decks that punish Maverick for not running counterspells.

[schniggaz]

For an Enlightened Tutor Sideboard, I recommend Ensnaring Bridge. Doesn't really prevent you from Griselbrand, draw 7, find Echoing Truth, Bounce, Attack; but at least it buys you some time.

But what you really should play is Phyrexian Revoker (and/or Phyrexian Metamorph)! Tutorable with Fauna Shaman and is just awesome in this matchup, and you can also board it in a few other matchups. Also Pithing Needle is awesome in shutting down Sneak Attack, Griselbrand or cards like Pernicious Deed.
Right now I am playing all three cards and I am not afraid after sideboarding ;-)

[Fatal]

For guys which not too familiar with copy effect rules:

Clone, Metamorph and similar copy effects works -
You may have ~this~ enter the battlefield as a copy of any artifact or creature on the battlefield, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types.

This mean that those card choose object (not target) before it enter to battlefield. Show and Tell puts 2 object in the same time. So Copy effect can't choose the second object put from S&T since it's not on the battlefield yet.

This mean that Metamorph won't save you more than Knight of the Reliquary which require fetching Karakas.

I would rather use Revoker since it can name blind - Sneak Attack or Griselbrand. Second option if you running Fauna Shamans are.. Peacekeeper which can be protected by Mom and stops both Emrakul and Griselbrand from attack.. but it still doesn't forbid opponent drawing cards from Bargain on legs.

[conley1000000]

Argh this is frustrating me to no end:

How do we effectively answer the combo matchup from killing us before we get a chance to lay down a hate-bear? I keep trying to look at the blue splash for Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm, but I don't get the impression that it helps (nevermind the added benefit against Burn and dedicated spell-control decks).

Leyline of Sanctity is also highly variant and we can't afford to mulligan to get it when UB/x and High Tide already bring in bounce to deal with hate bears.

What about Chalice of the Void @ 0 to stop their ridiculous mana accel? Chalice @ 1 is better vs them, but we need something for Turn 0 and turn 1.

Silence/Orim's Chant as the proactive answer, but limited in application.

Thoughts? Is the matchup infrequent enough to even bother?

There are three of us in our playgroup that are currently running maverick, starting with one who got the other two of us on it, me being one of the new ones.
-The other new guy has opted for the 3 spell pierce/1 flusterstorm sb package. This has honestly been very good for him, for a sort of early disruption to them t2ing a hivemind/emerakul/reanimation without them having Force. That being said trying to counter a deck thats carrying Forces is quite tough. But it at least gives him some game vs. all the combo decks at the early points of the game. And like you said it has the added bonus vs burn/dredge
-The original guy and I have opted for 3 Leyline of Sanctity and 2 Ethersworn Canonist, and mostly just excepting the infrequincy of playing t1 kill decks. We've basically decided that the infrequency of these matches dont warrant adjusting the mana base and adding colors. Having the leyline in the opening hand is a plus, but your also able to cast it on the backside of a thalia or canonist that you can vs storm strategies. Attacking there greedy mana bases, coupled with hate bears is the route we've chosen. It seems to work more often than not, with hivemind being the exception. and you have the added bonus of it being good vs. Red and black target decks.
-Chalice is something we havent tested, but minus it or tutor in your opening hand, with tutor being too slow for turn 0, your basically in the same boat as you are with leyline.
-I feel you hit the silence/orims chant on the head, its very narrow, and they just have to wait a turn or 2, which were not going to kill anyone on t4...seems like just delaying the inevitable.

To me it just seems like the checks and balances of legacy. Maverick generally has a better matchups with non-combo FOW decks, those decks generally have better matchups with combo decks, and the combo decks match up well vs. maverick.
Is it frustrating as a maverick player to have so much trouble with combo, yes, but are the majority of the decks were going to see be those combo decks? I dont feel that way.

[Ecstatic_Conch]

Hey guys, I'm relatively new to legacy, and I play a version of Punishing Fire Maverick. I've found my biggest weakness is sideboarding, since there are such a vast number of legacy decks out there and my meta is very diverse. The people in my area often have multiple decks, and I've seen a lot of the major archetypes represented. Off the top of my head, the decks I've seen are: storm, burn, goblins, enchantress, spanish inquisition, counter-top, thopter combo, dream halls, combo-elves, stone-blade, merfolk, nic-fit, and sneak attack. With this is mind, is there a way I can tune my sideboard to be more general, instead of specific? First of all, here is my list:

2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library

1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger

Now the Sideboard:

SB: 3 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Serenity

I'm thinking of putting 3 thalia in the sideboard against combo/non-creature decks and taking out Serenity, choke, and the third enlightened tutor. Generally I've found that choke gets forced or otherwise countered. The leylines are for burn, storm, and spanish inquisition. Pernicious deed has also been a problem for an unskilled player like me, so I'm trying to find how I can squeeze in another Krosan Grip as well. During this weeks legacy event I lost to a nic-fit player in game 3 from a particularly brutal Deed that cleared my over-extended board. Does anyone have any tips for new players like me, or suggestions on my sideboard or main-deck? Thanks in advance. :wink:

[Water_Wizard]

Argh this is frustrating me to no end:

How do we effectively answer the combo matchup from killing us before we get a chance to lay down a hate-bear? I keep trying to look at the blue splash for Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm, but I don't get the impression that it helps (nevermind the added benefit against Burn and dedicated spell-control decks).

Leyline of Sanctity is also highly variant and we can't afford to mulligan to get it when UB/x and High Tide already bring in bounce to deal with hate bears.

What about Chalice of the Void @ 0 to stop their ridiculous mana accel? Chalice @ 1 is better vs them, but we need something for Turn 0 and turn 1.

Silence/Orim's Chant as the proactive answer, but limited in application.

Thoughts? Is the matchup infrequent enough to even bother?

MBT

It's a meta decision. Do you shave against "fair" decks to combat "non-fair" decks? Depends upon what you expect to see.

You would have to lose the ET sb. I would tweak this list: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8287&iddeck=60409

How often do you use your ET sideboard? You've shrunk it to 4 targets (ORing, PM, EE, COP). COP:Red could be replaced by Kitchen Finks (sans Progenitus, which may be less relevant with the shift towards Griselband).

You free up a spot by cutting a Canonist. The sample list above runs 0 Canonist, but I would keep 1 in order to keep the hatebear trifecta alive and well.

The best part about MBT is that nobody expects it (unless you plan to play in Europe). The question remains, do you expect the meta to justify your decision?

MBT also dodges IoK, which is Storm's discard of choice right now. Most Storm players are removing Duress and Chants (unless you're KevinT on the play), so MBT should be the "real deal."

[.:saturno:.]

hi guys.
i have a problem with BUGwalker, i can never win.
what is your SB against this matchup?
i play a standard thalia-mav list.
i dont understand which are the card that give problem a BUG decks.
choke is better but not enough

[ThePrevailer]

In my SB I have Pithing Needle for planeswalkers and Deed. Gaddock Teeg is also pretty good against them if you can protect him.

I also bring in Choke, just so I have a good density of stuff.

My current problem is that I just played 8 games post board against RUG and didn't win a single one. I can't seem to fight Bolt, Forked Bolt, Submerge, and Sulfur Elemental.

I also am looking for something to side in against them, as Choke is too slow, and their primary strategy is to make sure you never get to 3 lands to cast Knight.

My current SB:
3 Choke
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist [lots of combo where I play]
1 Pithing Needle
1 COP: Red
1 Stony Silence
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Path to Exile [1 main]

[Fade]

hi guys.
i have a problem with BUGwalker, i can never win.
what is your SB against this matchup?
i play a standard thalia-mav list.
i dont understand which are the card that give problem a BUG decks.
choke is better but not enough

Typically Maverick lists don't have much in their sideboard for this deck. Right now it's just not that popular in the metagame to worry about this match. What's the point of running dedicated hate for a deck that you might not face in a big tournament. Maverick has always had a hard time dealing with pernicious deed. You can't over commit to the board or you risk getting blown out. If you don't apply enough pressure then you might fall too far behind. If the deck does gain popularity or your local tourneys are filled with BUG control then I would suggest running two Oblivion Rings to catch planeswalkers, more flash dudes (Scryb Ranger and Aven Mindcensor) to flash in to respond to liliana discard, and more pridemages/viridian shaman/harmonic sliver to make them waste deeds.


My current problem is that I just played 8 games post board against RUG and didn't win a single one. I can't seem to fight Bolt, Forked Bolt, Submerge, and Sulfur Elemental.

I also am looking for something to side in against them, as Choke is too slow, and their primary strategy is to make sure you never get to 3 lands to cast Knight.

This is a big problem. Sometimes RUG opens with hands that are just too absurd for Maverick to deal with. If you ever get two for one'd on a Fork Bolt it generally sets you back too far and by the time you actually land a KOTR they will time walk you with their submerges. Thalia is obviously very good against them but that as plays in the two for one Fork Bolt trap. Their wastelands also set us back in tempo and I never feel in control as one shuffle effect can spell disaster and stunting our mana in any way could just be game right on the spot. Batterskull is an okay answer if you actually have a stoneforge mystic live long enough to vial it in or if somehow you actually got up to 5 lands before the game was over. Thrun is more of an answer to their ground force but delvers still give us a problem. Scryb ranger and Swords generally have to stay back for them.

[Tacosnape]

Revoker/Needle packages are pretty real right now in the Griselbrand era. Revoker being tutorable off both Shaman and Enlightened Tutor means there's absolutely no way you shouldn't be packing at least 1 in your 75 currently. Needle being a hair quicker than Revoker can matter in a few other matchups, though. Revoker/Needle are pretty decent in the mirror, too. Despite them shutting off your versions as well, they can adapt to the situation.

That said, the real beast for the deck to have to deal with right now is just straight up Show and Tell. There isn't a card Maverick has that flat out shuts it off; The closest thing we have is Thalia. We can Revoker/Needle and/or Teeg Sneak Attack, and we should at all costs. It's more deadly, as it can even get around Karakas with an Emrakul, but we have answers to it. We struggle more to answer Show and Tell.

Knight and Fauna Shaman are pretty pro here. Fauna Shaman into Metamorph stops all of them from getting a hit off via Show and Tell, at least. Knight does the same to Emrakul and Griselbrand, which are the more common two right now by far over Progenitus.

None of this stops Griselbrand from drawing seven, though. Which is usually a massive epic problem. So here are my four favorite options:

1. Splash Blue for Meddling Mage. Mage on Show and Tell is a behemoth. Stop Sneak Attack the way you would otherwise - Revokers, Needles, Teeg.
2. Splash Red for Red Elemental Blast. Less effective given that you have to keep off color mana open, but has the additional benefit of being a thing against Blue Miracle decks and RUG Delver.
3. Splash Black for Chains of Mephistopheles. ...Okay, so nobody's actually going to do this, but the card IS a boss against the two best decks in the format right now. Just saying.
4. Run a LOT of Phyrexian Revokers. I run 3 Maindeck Fauna, 1 Revoker, 1 Metamorph, and 2 more Revokers and one Needle in board.

Revoker's got plenty of other neat applications - Pernicious Deeds in Nic Fit, Sensei's Divining Tops in Miracle decks, the occasional Grindstone, etc. It's protectable with Mother of Runes/Sylvan Safekeeper (I run one of those guys. He's an utter boss, and is pretty okay against Rug Delver.) Helps in the Mirror. Etc.


EDIT: My Two cents on fast combo killing you before a hatebear:
You kind of have two options for each type of fast combo:
1. Accept that you're going to lose if something combos out before turn two. Because once you hit your turn two, things turn amazing. You get Teeg, Thalia, Canonist, a chance to E-Tutor for any hate card, etc.
2. Run cards that stop it. In the RUG Delver era, I'm not going to sweat Storm Combo/Belcher too much outside of my local metagame (Mindbreak Trap buys you enough time to get a hate guy down, if this is the case), but Dredge is pretty real. My only maindeck yard hate is Scavenging Ooze, and he just doesn't get there against Dredge that often unless you go first and they get a slow draw. So I have my Enlightened Tutor, my Wheel of Sun and Moon, a Crypt, and usually a Surgical or two depending on how much Dredge I expect. Surgical on Narcomoeba will buy you a lot of time to stabilize.

[door]

Hi guys. I've been playing the fauna shaman variation for about half a year so far. At the moment I feel, that it is the strongest way for maverick.

I played BoM this weekend and went 5-0 on the trial and 7-1-1 on the main event with the deck (the big Legacy on Friday I played with BUG Jace-still and went awfully 5-4-1). After 9 rounds of Swiss I finished 18th out of 700+, my standings didn't let me to top16, "sigh"

Here's the list (I changed 2 cards in SB after trial):
"Surviving maverick"

61 cards in maindeck, 22 lands incl. Dryad Arbor
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor

3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Fauna Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Lightning Greaves

Sideboard
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Peacekeeper
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Bojuka Bog

the matches:
Thirsday trial:
R1. Enchantress 2-1. Enough lock for him after SB.
R2. Manaless Ichorid 2-1. Little chances in the first game, but very good after sb.
R3. Merfolks 2-1. In second game kept a very weak hand and got screwed. Traditionally good match up.
R4. Maverick 2-0. I just wait for Elesh Norn in 1st game, he can't beat it. The same after board, but I can find Linvala sooner than he (but not sure, what he was boarding).
R5. Bant 2-0. He needs non-basics for comfort play in 3 colors, I just attack his manabase. After board I establish Gaddock Teeg with greaves and his Submerges are useless.
Main event:
R1, R2 - byes
R3. RUG 2-1. I lost first game having KoTR 8-8. Decided to destroy his duals, when I just needed to attack. As a result he brainstorms into more lands, several burn spells, snap and delver. I try playing more wisely postboard and have no poroblems.
R4. Sneak'n Show 2-0. Once I realise, what he is playing, I start digging for Thalias while destroying his lands. He has to pitch Show and Tell and Intuition, to counter two of them, but the third one hits the table and KoTR after that. In second game he says Show on the first turn, but my starting hand is Karakas+KoTR+lands
R5. Bant, lost 1-2. I mulled and kept hands with weak lands. He screwed me and StP'd my hierarchs. Thrun hit the table, but did not save me from a horde of creatures he had time to play, while I was recovering from manascrew.
R6. BUG Jace control 2-1. The key is to not allow him to untap with Pernicious Deed and keep him away either from green-black-x, or from black-black-x, also resolve Thalia and protect it. First game is not very difficult, since his maideck build is soiled with Cliques and discard. Second game is tough, he has perish+snap and double Jace. I boarded useless surgicals and found out that he has no Loam, no Darkblast. In third game I kept him away from green, resolved Sylvan Library and got advantage before he Pernicios Deeded the table. I was able to recover two times after that, since his hand was empty. Eventually, after he killed my Gaddock Teeg and cleaned the table with Massacre, he was at 1 life. I Worldly Tutored for Mystic, got boots and killed with haste.
R7. Maverick 2-0. Again I just wait for Elesh Norn. Double ooze doesn't stop me from hardcasting it. Mother of Runes succesfully went out of sickness and protected Fauna Shaman to find Linvala. That's the game.
R8. Reanimator 1-1. In the first game I double waste him and have time for topdecking Thalia, StP and win. In second game he casts Show into Griselbrand, I put Revoker on Griselbrand, Mother of Runes, Zenith for Scryb and seal the deal with Sylvan Library. Faerie Macabre and Surgical don't let him to put more creatures. Suddenly Engineered Explosives on 2 end the game for me. Started g3 in turns, noone of us is that fast to win obv.
R9 Maverick 2-0. Overall it repeats the previous games against maverick.

So, I can answer any questions. I am satisfied with the result. The next time I'll have to expect EE from Reanimator and mull more carefully against Bant and others. Won't change anything maindeck. Lightning Greaves allowed to save my creatures in critical situations several times, 4 mother of runes is not enough sometimes. Also KoTR and Shaman activation the turn they hit the table sometimes gives free wins.
The card I doubt most of all is Thrun. Doesn't actually help. I'd like to have other creatures in mirror, Ooze against RUG, Gaddock+Thalia against UW and BUG. Troll dies to Terminus, Perish and Innocent Blood. I guess, I will put extra gravehate instead of Troll or second Ooze, but it depends on meta. 3 traps are a minimum must have. Otherwise can't win against Belcher and TES.

Thanks for any of your comments.

[Hopo]

Well done door! Good to see a familiar looking deck doing well :) Have you missed the Tarmogoyfs at all?

[kohulk]

@saturno
I have found that kitchen finks is superb against BUG Control lists and is not a dead sb card since it can be also quite helpfull against burn decks. On the play it has been also great against UR-RUG builts but on the draw submerge can make it irrelevant.

[majikal]

I have some super secret tech I will be trying this weekend in Nashville. Choke has been terrible for me the last three or so tournaments, so I am doing something a little different.

I will write a report.

[Koby]

Summoning Trap X_X

[ScatmanX]

Report
Congratulations there!
Simply loved your deck!
Do you remember your boarding plans? I'm more curious on the mirror and against BUG.
Why don't you have the 1off Maze that everyone plays?
Was Ensnaring Bridge usefull anytime? do you want it against what? And is it usefull enough without any was to tutor it?
Thank you.

[CorpT]

3. Splash Black for Chains of Mephistopheles. ...Okay, so nobody's actually going to do this, but the card IS a boss against the two best decks in the format right now. Just saying.

I own three and desperately want to use them. Is it actually good against RUG? Is it worth splashing to black for?

[door]

Congratulations there!
Simply loved your deck!
Do you remember your boarding plans? I'm more curious on the mirror and against BUG.
Why don't you have the 1off Maze that everyone plays?
Was Ensnaring Bridge usefull anytime? do you want it against what? And is it usefull enough without any was to tutor it?
Thank you.

Thanks!
Against maverick my boarding was
-3 Thalia
- Gaddock teeg
+ Linvala
+ Bojuka bog
+ phyrexian revoker
+ worldly tutor
Against BUG:
- 2 StP
- Loyal retainers
- Elesh Norn
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
+ Gaddock teeg
+ Bojuka Bog
+ Thrun
+ Revoker
+ Worldly tutor
and + surgical extractions if they play loam or darkblast. I guess it will go instead of quirion ranger and 3rd stp
From my experience Maze is useless unless you play in a meta full of affinity, zoo and goblins. In mirror the game is not about that, also it gets wasted easily. I'd prefer having a minimum of 4 lands that give mana on the 4th turn to play Linvala faster.
Ensnaring bridge is against Sneak'n Show. Also helps against reanimator and dredge. Peacekeeper could be the second bridge, but my deck is constructed to search for creatures, so I split 1-1. Since Sneak'n Show was so much at the event, I think I would change Thrun into another bridge.


Well done door! Good to see a familiar looking deck doing well :) Have you missed the Tarmogoyfs at all?

Well, I can't afford to play tarmo in my list. Need to have more options. I believe, this deck is better when you play more like a control. Also since everyone plays 2-3 ooze I dismissed vengevines.

[ScatmanX]

Thanks Door.
I'm also curious about Quirion Ranger, because most people only use 1 Scryb Ranger. Why the 1-1 split. Is it really that usefull?

[Tacosnape]

I own three and desperately want to use them. Is it actually good against RUG? Is it worth splashing to black for?

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Hitting Brainstorm and Ponder is nice. Sometimes they spend their dig before you get it down and just Dude/Burn you to death. Sometimes the third color makes you die to Wasteland and Stifle.

I'll go as far to say that your matchup with Chains of Mephistopheles is better than it is without it, but as for whether it's worth splashing black just for RUG? I'd say no. It doesn't do quite enough. It does, however, screw with a lot of SnT decks by hitting Brainstorm, Ponder, and Griselbrand, and it's a behemoth against UW Miracles (It's a deck, I promise. I've been playing it since Terminus was spoiled.) and pretty decent against Bug Control too.

@Tarmogoyf: This guy is garbage in Maverick. Seriously. I've been saying this for eternity.

Also, seriously guys? Try out one Sylvan Safekeeper. You'll win so many games off this guy, between being able to multi-protect when you need a Jitte guy to hit and being able to both protect and pump Knights of the Reliquary at will.

[door]

Thanks Door.
I'm also curious about Quirion Ranger, because most people only use 1 Scryb Ranger. Why the 1-1 split. Is it really that usefull?

according to my experience his ability is priceless.
- fixes manascrew
- double mother activation (you can stall the table for enough time to find elesh norn for example)
- double shaman activation, which means finding elesh norn and loyal retainers without passing the turn
- double kotr activation
- bounce dryad arbor to have a pitch for shaman
- save savannah from wasteland. Yes, lots of people forget about that and loose their wastelands

Ok, Scryb does the same and even better. Generally I want scryb's ability as sooner as possible, so
- more mana on the second turn
- playing savannah - quirion on the first turn if you can't afford a basic land saves from opponent's wastelands
- avoids pithing needle/revoker on scryb
- costs zenith for 1, not for 2
Finally, there are 6 cards for finding scryb, if I need it specifically.

[sswerdna]

Has anyone tested CoP: Green as sideboard tech against the mirror and RUG? I've tested a few games against RUG and it's been pretty nuts, especially since it goes over the shroud on their mongeese. I'm using it as part of an E. Tutor package, along with Choke and EE.

[Asthereal]

To me it seems incorrect to play 3 Zenith and 3 Fauna Shaman. One can Zenith for the Shaman but also get Arbor turn 1 or Teeg/Ooze turn 2 if needed. Shaman only works from turn 3, which is slower. I think the correct amount should be 4 Zenith, 2 Fauna Shaman. Other than that I change my mind about the correct list every second. Right now I'm contemplating this:

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Aven Mindcensor /27

Spells:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow /12

Lands:
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle (testing right now, not sold on it yet)
4 Wasteland /21

Seems very solid, but my guess is I'll try something different next week. :tongue:

[Koby]

To me it seems incorrect to play 3 Zenith and 3 Fauna Shaman. One can Zenith for the Shaman but also get Arbor turn 1 or Teeg/Ooze turn 2 if needed. Shaman only works from turn 3, which is slower. I think the correct amount should be 4 Zenith, 2 Fauna Shaman. Other than that I change my mind about the correct list every second. Right now I'm contemplating this:

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Aven Mindcensor /27

Spells:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow /12

Lands:
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle (testing right now, not sold on it yet)
4 Wasteland /21

Seems very solid, but my guess is I'll try something different next week. :tongue:

More or less what I've got right now based on the last few pages of discussion.
-1 Scryb Ranger
-1 Stoneforge Mystic
+1 Qasali Pridemage
+1 Thalia
-1 Sylvan Library
+1 Linvala

And now SB to deal with random activated abilities from the sideboard: Phyrexian Revoker. Pretty solid list, provided you don't run into TES or Belcher.

[Lorenzo767]

Hi, what u think of playing in GW 1 Tropical Island maindeck (with 6 fetchlands) and 3x Flusterstorm in Sideboard?
In this period i'm playing a "standard" Gw decklist without Fauna Shaman and i'm testing this sideboard:

3 Flusterstorm
3 Ethersworm canonist
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Choke
2 Path to exile
1 Thrun, The last troll
1 Bokuja bog

I don't play Linvala or Gut Shot because here there aren't too much Mirror, so isn't necessary ^_^
Any advice?

[Asthereal]

Sideboard depends entirely on your meta.
I seem to always encounter Burn, so I need stuff against that.
TES and Belcher will never be good matchups, so I don't side heavily against those.

Right now I have:
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Qasali Pridemage (just 2 main, so need a 3rd one)
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (also just 2 main)
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
2 Choke
2 Entlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Serenity/Phyrexian Revoker (depending on whether I expect Affinity/Mud out there, or not)

This also changes by the minute tho. :tongue:

[door]

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Aven Mindcensor /27

Spells:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow /12

Lands:
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle (testing right now, not sold on it yet)
4 Wasteland /21


To me it is always strange, what for do you need fauna shaman without retainers/iona/elesh norn package. In this case standart maverick build would be better. Also I wouldn't play less than 3 Thalia in todays meta. Mindcensor is a question.

[ryscott85]

Hey all! I've been following this thread for quite some time now, and just decided to join. I am one of very few legacy players in my part of souther nj :mad:

Anyway, Mavrick is one of my favorit decks. The reason i feel that the Shaman package is strong is due to the fact that it can help you dig for threats to the otherwise dead game 1's of match ups to combo decks: high tide, etc..

Need Teeg, done. Need thalia, done. Need revoker, etc.. Also 4 Linvala in the mirror match.

I've been tinkering with:

1. Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Noble Hierarch
1 BOP
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben(Combo hate)
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fauna Shaman
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Linvala, KOS (Mirror)
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Phyrexian Revoker(Jizzle brand/planeswalkers)/27

Spells:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow or second Jittle/11

Lands:
3 Savannah
3 Forests
1 Plains
1 Wooded foothills( An extra fetch instead of 4 Savannah's for a bigger kotr)
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Maze of Ith(Not completely sold, weak vs combo)
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy(May ditch for another fetch land or 4th Savannah)
1 Gaea's Cradle ( I don't have it yet.. wondering if its worth the 60$)
4 Wasteland /22

*Horizon Canopy seems to suck more life then it's worth in my testing so far..
*I'd like to squeeze in at least a singleton Elspeth, Knight-Errant
* Don't have any Aven in my 60, still debating if he is worth the casting cost or spot.

I'm in the process of tailoring a sb..

What do you guys thinK?

[conley1000000]

With GP Atlanta not far away, what does everyone think the metagame there will look like? There are 4 SCG events between now and then, should this be a good indication of Atlanta?

[Tacosnape]

To me it is always strange, what for do you need fauna shaman without retainers/iona/elesh norn package. In this case standart maverick build would be better. Also I wouldn't play less than 3 Thalia in todays meta. Mindcensor is a question.

Different packages, if you play guys who aren't green that need fetching. Or to be Zenith 5-6 or 5-7. If you're me, for example, you've got a Metamorph, a Revoker, a Stoneforge, and sometimes one random Mindcensor, along with the ability to go dig up Thalia sometimes. Metamorph and Revoker are huge as 1-of's in my maindeck to me. Fauna Shaman lets me find them when I don't need them, and ditch them when I do.

And I guess that's the second, overlooked point of Fauna Shaman. It's not just about toolboxing. It's about getting the right guy at the right time. If you need nothing more than the STP in your yard, Shaman into Witness into STP might save you all Toolboxy. Sometimes, however, you're just going to be annoyed you drew your third Noble Hierarch, and be glad you can turn him into another Knight of the Reliquary. It makes ALL your dudes Knights of the Reliquary, if you've got the mana to make it happen. And for all the times you need to dig for an exact guy to win, there's two or three times you'll win just because you've got a stupid number of Knights on the board.

EDIT: Fwiw, I think Mindcensor's trash now, given how many Maverick builds have been moving away from heavy Stoneforge stuff, and how subpar it is against a lot of the rest of the field.

[Koby]

I think the ability to find Linvala more consistently makes Fauna Shaman a good upgrade to the deck. That was reason enough for me to play it out, and I enjoyed how the addition worked out.

[Asthereal]

Lotal Retainers is a bad tech in my opinion.
The cards are bad on their own, and the combo requires a discard outlet to work. Fauna Shaman should be just that, but it only works on the next turn (requires tapping). It's just too easy to shut down, leaving you with irrelevant cards in the deck.

If it works, it's killing. Of course. But the same counts for Natural Order > Progenitus. We don't play that in Maverick either.

To me, Fauna Shaman does this:
- Against the mirror, it grabs Linvala, Mother of Runes, Mindcensors, when needed.
- Against combo, it grabs the additional hatebreas they cannot fight through.
- Against any slow deck, it turns less relevnat creatures into very relevant creatures.
Or it draws removal, leaving your Knight to finish the job.

[Darkness]

Hey all! I've been following this thread for quite some time now, and just decided to join. I am one of very few legacy players in my part of souther nj :mad:

Anyway, Mavrick is one of my favorit decks. The reason i feel that the Shaman package is strong is due to the fact that it can help you dig for threats to the otherwise dead game 1's of match ups to combo decks: high tide, etc..

Need Teeg, done. Need thalia, done. Need revoker, etc.. Also 4 Linvala in the mirror match.

I've been tinkering with:

1. Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Noble Hierarch
1 BOP
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben(Combo hate)
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fauna Shaman
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Linvala, KOS (Mirror)
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Phyrexian Revoker(Jizzle brand/planeswalkers)/27

Spells:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow or second Jittle/11

Lands:
3 Savannah
3 Forests
1 Plains
1 Wooded foothills( An extra fetch instead of 4 Savannah's for a bigger kotr)
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Maze of Ith(Not completely sold, weak vs combo)
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy(May ditch for another fetch land or 4th Savannah)
1 Gaea's Cradle ( I don't have it yet.. wondering if its worth the 60$)
4 Wasteland /22

*Horizon Canopy seems to suck more life then it's worth in my testing so far..
*I'd like to squeeze in at least a singleton Elspeth, Knight-Errant
* Don't have any Aven in my 60, still debating if he is worth the casting cost or spot.

I'm in the process of tailoring a sb..

What do you guys thinK?

Horizon Canopy is much better than you think. The extra draw at times can be very helpful late game. It's also an extra card that goes in the yard for knight activation. If you're going to run Life from the Loam in the board for loam lock, it's a dredge at will for the extra Wastelands when needed. I would recommend -1 Foothills and +1 Canopy in MD.

[Sarterus]

Here is the version I have been playing for about a month in Seattle. It is a little faster and has larger creatures with the Nacatl. Cats + exalted is a lot of pressure early. I am looking for ideas to improve it.

Land (22) (maybe 1 too many)
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Horizon Canopy
4x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Wasteland
1x Karakas
2x Plateau
3x Savannah
1x Taiga
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Arid Mesa
Spells
4x Path to Exile (focused on quick damage)
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Aven Mindcensor (less than amazing likly to cut but not sure for what)
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Mother of Runes
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Noble Hierarch (4 is better then adding a bird if you want a seriously fast clock)
4x Qasali Pridemage
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (may up this to three)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Sideboard
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Honorable Passage (several local budget all bolt/bob decks and Rug or UR Delver)
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Choke
2x Serenity (Both myself and a friend recently lost to lost to MUD with this deck before adding this)
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Grafdigger's Cage

Looking for ideas against elves (maybe rule of law) and MUD.

[MiniLuv]

Here is the version I have been playing for about a month in Seattle. It is a little faster and has larger creatures with the Nacatl. Cats + exalted is a lot of pressure early. I am looking for ideas to improve it.

Land (22) (maybe 1 too many)
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Horizon Canopy
4x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Wasteland
1x Karakas
2x Plateau
3x Savannah
1x Taiga
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Arid Mesa
Spells
4x Path to Exile (focused on quick damage)
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Aven Mindcensor (less than amazing likly to cut but not sure for what)
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Mother of Runes
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Noble Hierarch (4 is better then adding a bird if you want a seriously fast clock)
4x Qasali Pridemage
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (may up this to three)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant


You are much better off playing Zoo. I see 3 red producing lands at the expense of a Savannah/Wasteland/a Forest just for your Nacatl.You are playing no red spells at all. That is hardly efficient. You are opening yourself to Wasteland + color screw just to play Nacatl. You are also decreasing the Jitte count + other GSZ targets by adding Nacatl. What if Nacatl isn't in your opener? A turn 2 Nacatl off GSZ is horrendously slow. You say you want a seriously fast clock via exalted. Maverick will rarely ever have a fast clock. Turn 1 Nacatl -> Turn 2 Noble is just suboptimal in a deck that wants to have a Turn 1 Noble/Dryad Arbor. This deck has quite a few horrible late game creature top decks (Noble, MoR, Arbor) and doesn't need anymore.

Cats + exalted is much worse at applying pressure than the Cats + 1 drop beaters + Tarmogoyf + burn in Zoo. Switch over to Zoo or cut the Nacatls.

[ajfennewald]

I would think you want to find room for 4 lightning bolts, prob play lavamancer over mother. Prob switch your 3 oozes to one ooze 2 goyf. So basically a big zoo deck

[Sarterus]

You are much better off playing Zoo. I see 3 red producing lands at the expense of a Savannah/Wasteland/a Forest just for your Nacatl.You are playing no red spells at all. That is hardly efficient. You are opening yourself to Wasteland + color screw just to play Nacatl. You are also decreasing the Jitte count + other GSZ targets by adding Nacatl. What if Nacatl isn't in your opener? A turn 2 Nacatl off GSZ is horrendously slow. You say you want a seriously fast clock via exalted. Maverick will rarely ever have a fast clock. Turn 1 Nacatl -> Turn 2 Noble is just suboptimal in a deck that wants to have a Turn 1 Noble/Dryad Arbor. This deck has quite a few horrible late game creature top decks (Noble, MoR, Arbor) and doesn't need anymore.

Cats + exalted is much worse at applying pressure than the Cats + 1 drop beaters + Tarmogoyf + burn in Zoo. Switch over to Zoo or cut the Nacatls.

If the goal was to play zoo I agree, bolts and Tarmogoyfs are better. Zoo hits harder and faster but with much less control and more losses to combo. My goal is not to play zoo, but simply to speed up Maverick with a better clock while keeping the control aspects of Ooze, Gaddock and Thalia. Zoo is a much worse deck unless you are playing a goldfish. Zoo's problem is that it plays too many threats and not enough control to beat most decks.

I tried splitting Oozes and Tarmogoyf and found that 95% of the time I just wanted the Ooze. Against Burn, Esper, Zoo, Goblins, Snapcasters and Drege Ooze is better. Only in very rare cases did I want Goyfs vanilla damage.

The casting cost is so low in the deck the wastelands are not a big deal and 2 basics tends to work well.

Mom+Nacatl+Exalted gets a lot more damage by lingering souls then Nacatl + Goyf which are both chump blocked. Give the build a try.

[Koby]

Maverick isn't exactly an aggro deck. Trying to make it into one will lead you back to Zoo (or Big Zoo, but who's counting..) Maverick's strength comes from being able to control the Attack Step and relatively ignore Blue control strategies. The matchups where you want to be hyper-aggressive are ones where you need a quick clock to beat a Combo deck (Burn, Show & Tell, Combo, etc).

[MiniLuv]

If the goal was to play zoo I agree, bolts and Tarmogoyfs are better. Zoo hits harder and faster but with much less control and more losses to combo. My goal is not to play zoo, but simply to speed up Maverick with a better clock while keeping the control aspects of Ooze, Gaddock and Thalia. Zoo is a much worse deck unless you are playing a goldfish. Zoo's problem is that it plays too many threats and not enough control to beat most decks.

I tried splitting Oozes and Tarmogoyf and found that 95% of the time I just wanted the Ooze. Against Burn, Esper, Zoo, Goblins, Snapcasters and Drege Ooze is better. Only in very rare cases did I want Goyfs vanilla damage.

The casting cost is so low in the deck the wastelands are not a big deal and 2 basics tends to work well.

Mom+Nacatl+Exalted gets a lot more damage by lingering souls then Nacatl + Goyf which are both chump blocked. Give the build a try.

Maverick WILL NEVER present a fast clock. Look at the creatures it plays. Noble Hierarch for mana accelration, Mother of Runes to give PROTECTION, and Knight being the ONLY creature that enters play above 2/2. You are adding 4 Nacatls, which equate to 4 horrible vanilla beaters, to a deck that is midrange and grindy in nature. Why is Tarmogoyf not played in Maverick? Because it DOES NOTHING other than attack and block which makes it useless at the 2cc slot. There is not utility with Tarmogoyf that you can get with Qasali, Ooze, Scryb Ranger, Fauna Shaman, etc. Is Nacatl any better at the 1cc slot? Don't dilute the mana base and add more horrible creature top decks at the expense of maxing of a more stable land base and more viable GSZ targets.

Your reasoning for Mom + Nacatl + Exalted getting by Lingering Souls is flawed. You will be attacking with ONE creature as opposed to attacking with multiple creatures in Zoo. Which plan will get rid of the chump blockers more quickly? You plan on giving the Nacatl protection from white to get past the token blockers? They StP in response and set you back.

Let's pretend they do not have removal, which isn't likely. How are you going to get Mom + Nacatl + Noble Hierarch/Qasali out on the field early enough to present a fast enough clock? You need to untap with Mom to use her. You need to untap with Nacatl to start beating down. You need to have Noble Hierarch + Qasali Pridemage out on turn 3 when Nacatl + Mom have gotten over summoning sickness to be useful. And you need to do all of this while having Mountain/Plains/Forest in play. How much damage do you think you will accumulate the first 2-3 turns if everything has gone according to plan? Hardly any. Will Nacatl get outclassed by your opponent's other creatures by then such that you need to start using Mom to force damage through and putting Nacatl on chump block duty? Most likely. You plan on playing PtE to remove their bigger opposing creatures or tokens? I prefer not helping my opponent accelerate into bigger creatures and planeswalkers without Zoo's burn to quickly finish the job.

Please reconsider what you're doing.

[Nutox]

So anyway.

I'm not ready to put down my "beat blue's face in without playing blue" G/W Dudes deck just because Sneak-n-Show is going to take 16 of the top 32 at the next SCG Open.

Adam Cai did an awesome job in Baltimore with a list that brings the versatility of Mav right to the edge with Fauna Shaman / Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite / Spell Pierce +1 Flusterstorm out of the SB. Even included two Linvala, Keeper of Silence! Good God. I'm not as good a player as he, so I'll to stick to straight G/W for its consistency and good times in the loser's bracket.

How am I going to tweak my 75 in mind of Show and Tell dropping everywhere?

Clearly, the best G/W answer for a card that could ever make it in the 75 of a G/W Dudes deck is dropping a Humility, preferably under Show and Tell. I even took a match from a Stax player in round 1 at SCG:Providence who resolved Humility in all three games, so, you know, it's not THAT anti-synergistic. Oblivion Ring is far away the second choice in power, because of the activated abilities of Griselbrand and Sneak Attack getting to go on the stack before ORing's ability resolves.

Of course, I may as well run Orim's Chant instead of Humility... unless I want a fun tournament full of getting punched in the face by opponents, doing 1/1 wars with every RUG/Blade/Creatures deck I face. (At least with GSZ I can keep ahead on the creature count!!!) And with Carpet of Flowers, to go with Chant, any blue combo deck that durdles until turn five, dies. Especially under Sylvan Library.

Considering I'm playing in SCG Opens, not GPs or Invitationals, I think it's okay to hone in the sideboard a little more. What do we have for possibilities?

Deathbringer Liege: Can get it under Fauna Shaman, Costs 5 just like Elspeth under Thalia, helps Mom AND Thalia with Sulfur Elemental, taps down Emmy when I swords Drizzlebrand, is great when I get to drop it under Show. Carries Jitte like a boss. Nice ass. Also kills Emmy if you splash black for Thoughtsieze to shore up your Combo M/U.

Diversionary Tactics: Maindeckable in the Meta, replacement Mom effect when Sulfur Elemental eats her, costs five under Thalia like Elspeth, goes great with Exalted. Works perfect with our E-tutor sideboard.

Storm Front: Oh man. This may just replace Carpet of Flowers in my sideboard against Delver. DAZE THIS! See what happens, Sneaky Show Dudes, when you ditch Proggy for Yawgmoth's Drawstick?? At least Progenitus pitches to Force of Will. (Oh. Rule 702.15i. Anyways.)

Scepter of Dominance / Trip Noose. Eh, mana hungry, die in the Mirror. Hated out by Shattering Spree. Most of my Turn 1/2 White Mana is sick when Show and Tell drops. (Fear Wasteland!) (Though I have been thinking about cutting Wasteland in favor of City of Traitors to speed things up a bit... goes good with Fetches and KotR!) At this point, may as well run Staff of Domination out of the etutor board... 'specially with Carpet. Notably, do not carry Jitte, or pitch to Fauna Shaman.

Tangle: Umm, yeah, maybe if I cast it in their main phase. Can't drop it under Show. Also I heard conditional non-permanents are bad without Brainstorm.

WHICH LEADS ME TO THE ULTIMATE ANSWER:

Azorius Guildmage: Holy sh*t, Stifle on a Stick!!! T1 Noble Hierach, pass, (sneaky show durdles), T2 land, pass, Show and Tell, GG! Strong with aforementioned City of Traitors. Or you can just tap down Emrakul if Sneak Attack is not involved on this turn. I mean, if we're holding lands up for a crushing Aven Mindcensor play anyway.... Carries Jitte like a boss. Fetchable with Shaman. Sneaky Show will not board in Pyroblast against G/W Maverick.

---

In all seriousness, I'll probably make room for two Parallax Wave and rock a couple Oblivion Ring MD in place of fragile, slow one-ofs that don't impact the board until you untap with them and don't hit Nimble Mongoose. (Oh, wait.) Costs five under Thalia, just like Elspeth. It'll buy time to untap with Knight->Karakas and get draw into a Plow or get my Scryb Ranger with SoLaS online to handle Grizzy. ORing will be a four-bomb under Thalia, but if I need to stick her, and she lives, I'm probably winning anyway.

Will never shell out $$$ for playset of FoW, Jace, Brainstorm. Would rather pay $100/ea for Savannah. :tongue:

[MiniLuv]

^That was a somewhat funny troll post=]

[from Cairo]

I agree. I'm running 2 Wave and a Ring sb, with 1 Karakas main 1 board, and the Fauna Shaman + Revoker/Metamorph package. I feel like I have plenty of game against Sneak & Show.

Considering the discussion of tappers though, the one that I might consider running as a 1-of is Thornscape Apprentice as it's a GSZ target, that can tap opposing Delvers/Mother of Runes and obviously has application against Griselbrand and Emrakul.

[Tribesstorm]

I looked at the Show And Tell lists, and if it seems that if you have an Ensnaring Bridge out, they can't actually win.

[Nutox]

I agree. I'm running 2 Wave and a Ring sb, with 1 Karakas main 1 board, and the Fauna Shaman + Revoker/Metamorph package. I feel like I have plenty of game against Sneak & Show.

Considering the discussion of tappers though, the one that I might consider running as a 1-of is Thornscape Apprentice as it's a GSZ target, that can tap opposing Delvers/Mother of Runes and obviously has application against Griselbrand and Emrakul.

Thornscape Apprentice is cool, I have a couple in my sideboard binder.

However, a true Maverick answer to Sneaky Show must be:

1) Droppable under Show and Tell, thus, uncounterable. We're not winning counter wars.

2) Once dropped under Show and Tell, immediately usable. There is no time to react. This eliminates any creature with tap-to-activate abilities, even though it may be more deckable in other matchups. This also eliminates Instants, Sorceries, and Planeswalkers.

Ensnaring Bridge gets hit by not only Wipe Away, which is in the Sneaky Show SB, but Shattering Spree too, which is also in there. Maverick also can't win with it out, unlike being able to swing armies of 1/1s into Opponent's smaller armies of 1/1s under Humility in any crazy scenario where you would bring it against a deck other than Sneaky Show. Strictly worse than Humility against RUG/Delver, too. And X/Blade. And still lets Griselbrand dig for the aforementioned Wipe Away. Although, I admit, in that particular game, we MIGHT be able to clock them faster with an Ensnaring Bridge than a Humility, so long as we don't Wasteland them off Red.

So, Parallax Wave it is!

[maktus]

Thornscape Apprentice is cool, I have a couple in my sideboard binder.

However, a true Maverick answer to Sneaky Show must be:

1) Droppable under Show and Tell, thus, uncounterable. We're not winning counter wars.

2) Once dropped under Show and Tell, immediately usable. There is no time to react. This eliminates any creature with tap-to-activate abilities, even though it may be more deckable in other matchups. This also eliminates Instants, Sorceries, and Planeswalkers.

Ensnaring Bridge gets hit by not only Wipe Away, which is in the Sneaky Show SB, but Shattering Spree too, which is also in there. Maverick also can't win with it out, unlike being able to swing armies of 1/1s into Opponent's smaller armies of 1/1s under Humility in any crazy scenario where you would bring it against a deck other than Sneaky Show. Strictly worse than Humility against RUG/Delver, too. And X/Blade. And still lets Griselbrand dig for the aforementioned Wipe Away. Although, I admit, in that particular game, we MIGHT be able to clock them faster with an Ensnaring Bridge than a Humility, so long as we don't Wasteland them off Red.

So, Parallax Wave it is!

Peacekeeper could be a good answer. Has sinergy with cavern of souls (human) and fauna shaman.

[Tacosnape]

All Trolliness aside, Parallax Wave doesn't stop Griselbrand from drawing cards. And they're going to sideboard in Woodfall Primus if they think you can drop a goofy answer off Show and Tell.

I'd seriously pick Humility. Sneak and Show is the most common Show and Tell deck right now, and having a Humility in your hand shuts off their Show and Tells. Just get a Revoker on Sneak Attack or stick a Teeg and you're good to go. Teeg/Humility's pretty stout against Dream Halls too.

An Ethersworn Canonist is your best bet against Hive Mind without cluttering your board with excruciatingly narrow cards. Drop it off the SnT and stick a Pridemage and you might steal a game or two.

[Koby]

I'm liking Revoker right now, and just chalk it up to can'ts meaningfully interact with Show & Tell. There's still plenty of decks that we can beat up on.

[Ziveeman]

Random suggestions:

Brittle Effigy
Duplicant

Both of these get dropped off of a Show and Tell and they can deal with the creature immediately. Duplicant also has the awesome ability to become a 15/15 or a 7/7 to put your opponent on a serious clock. Of course, he doesn't help too much versus Sneak Attack, but Revokers would be good at that point to force them to Show and Tell.

Of course, these answers are pretty narrow but I'm just trying to continue the brainstorm for answers :)

[Julian23]

Maybe I am missing something, but how is Sneak Show ever going to beat Mother of Runes protecting Peacekeeper? Double Pyroclasm/Echoing Truth? Even more once Scryb Ranger shows up?

I'm no longer playing this deck, but Peacekeeper seems like a better option than Humility.

[Humphrey]

I have serious problems against rug and lost like 10-2 in testings. How to beat this deck?
First turn delver is almost impossible to handle. And if I got STP Rug has Mongoose, Removal and Submerge to get lethal.

[Nutox]

Ah, naw, I'm not trolling... just trying to clear the air, and be humorously absurd in the light of asking a totally absurd question like "How can G/W Maverick hose a great blue combo deck that doesn't care much about Thalia, without completely janking my 75?"

I guess I was focused a little narrowly on turn-2 nut-draw sneak attack activations. Then I went ahead and RTFM.

"Rule 404.1: a triggered ability begins with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at."

So Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing Needle possess static abilities. Not ETB triggers. Sneak Attack activations never have a chance to go on the stack. :facepalm:

I'm gonna go take my seat back at Table 199 now. With an 8-split of oring, revoker, needle, and pwave in my pile. Thank you all for the brainstorming. :smile:

[Nutox]

Maybe I am missing something, but how is Sneak Show ever going to beat Mother of Runes protecting Peacekeeper? Double Pyroclasm/Echoing Truth? Even more once Scryb Ranger shows up?

I'm no longer playing this deck, but Peacekeeper seems like a better option than Humility.

Hah! So we beat Sneaky Show by decking them as they sit at 6 life. That's actually pretty rad. Too narrow to sideboard in Maverick for a tournament, one might say, compared to some other suggestions, but a way bigger lock than Revoker/Mom for that deck. Awesome call.

And despite all my inordinately misdirected fighting spirit, nobody's going to beat the turn one sneaky show nut draw, so I'll just get over it.

/goes back to sit under the noob tree.

[Water_Wizard]

What's wrong with Knight into Karakas? Beats Show and Tell. Maze is good against Griselbrand. Yes, Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack with RR open, but Maverick's best bet is - drop Thalia, drop Knight, find Qasali Pridemage for Sneak Attack, drop Choke (games 2-3), get Karakas in play, keep Swords to Plowshares in for Griselbrand, get Maze into play (doesn't stop Emrakul trigger, but it does prevent the damage- especially with Sneak Attack in play, they have to draw 3 creatures to deal 20), board in Surgical Extraction if you have it in your 75 (remove Emmy or Griselbrand after they are sacrificed from Sneak Attack or remove one of the combo pieces (either a cast Show and Tell or a QP'd Sneak Attack).

If you are really, really worried about Sneak Attack, either:
1) Run Ensnaring Bridge (however, it may be too late)
2) Go back to punishing Mav and run Pyroblast/REB with Ethersworn Canonist
3) Run Revoker/Needle on Sneak Attack
4) Run Retribution of the Meek

Also, always, always, use your Wastelands liberally. Finally, Aven Mindcensor is good in this match-up (stops Intution and is effective against fetch lands).

In conclusion, drop Thalia, get in some early beats, keep them off lands, pray a little bit.

[Humphrey]

I recently added 3 Needle and 2 Gaddock (1 Main) to my SB. Mainly as out against UW Miracle (Top, Jace, Terminus) but effective against Sneakshow too. 2 Karakas main.

I still need suggestions for Rug though, or was I just unlucky?

[Water_Wizard]

I recently added 3 Needle and 2 Gaddock (1 Main) to my SB. Mainly as out against UW Miracle (Top, Jace, Terminus) but effective against Sneakshow too. 2 Karakas main.

I still need suggestions for Rug though, or was I just unlucky?

Sounds like a solid plan vs. Sneak and Show.

RUG should be a favorable match up. A few suggestions:
Play around Wasteland.
Play Choke.
Bring in extra removal in the form of Path to Exile or Gut Shot.
Umezawa's Jitte is a beatstick.
Scavenging Ooze is even better (just make sure it doesn't get Bolted right away - bring it into play when they are tapped out of R or when you have 3+ G available and 3+ creatures in the yard).

Be aware of Submerge, Sulfur Elemental, and Forked Bolt.

Regarding Submerge: either 1) avoid forests (can be done though Horizon Canopy/Gaea's Cradle/Noble Heirarch, although the life loss from Canopy can hurt, sacrificing early forests to a KotR), or 2) Play Teeg (shuts down their Submerge/FOW, but also shuts down your GSZ. You can pull Teeg tricks with Karakas, but be mindful of Submerge). Be mindful when you Fetch/Activate Knight or cast SFM (anytime you shuffle your library they will Submerge in response and you will shuffle your creature into your deck).

Regarding Sulfur Elemental: Be aware of Mother of Runes, Thalia, and Aven (if you run it - I like Aven in this match-up because it trades with a flipped Delver and can disrupt RUG's fragile mana base). Thalia is very good against RUG, since they are tight on mana.

Regarding Forked Bolt: Don't play into an early 2-for-1, especially with mana creatures.

Play smart around Daze, Spell Pierce, and Stifle.

Once you hit a Knight, they have few answers.

They board out Nimble Mongoose vs. Maverick. This leaves them with 10 creatures (4 Delvers, 4 Goyfs, and 1/2 boarded Sulfur Elementals / Scavenging Ooze). Delver is the hardest for us to handle, so focus on that first. We should be able to win the battles on the ground (Knight/Ooze/Equiped creatures should be bigger than/have protection from green). Be mindful of your life total so you cannot be finished off with burn. Be mindful of granting them tempo plays, i.e. empowering their Dazes, Spell Pierces, Forked Bolts, and/or Sulfur Elementals. If you can maintain parity, you will win more often than you lose because your threats are bigger. The longer you can stretch out the game, the better your chances of winning (assuming you are not clinging to 2 life and praying they don't draw a Bolt). You are the control deck, they are the beat down. Negate their early threats and drop bombs. Once your bombs resolve, the tempo shifts and they must attempt to use their inferior answers.

Finally, be mindful of Sulfuric Vortex. Leave a number of Qasali Pridemages in to destroy this enchantment. It prevents life gain and can be used to burn us out of the game.

[Humphrey]

well, most of the advices are obv., but thanks.

Sure, if I have the right cards on time, its beatable. But after boarding it gets really nasty. I didnt have opp who sided out mongoose and i dont think thats a good plan to do so.
After boarding they have answers to Mom, Thalia, Aven with Sulfur on top of Forked Bolts. They can Daze and Snare the 2-Drops and Daze and Bounce the Knight.
Or they just Bolt or Force the Stuff away :(

I really struggle with this matchup. And I found Choke very slow. Good lists have Taiga or bounce their Islands with Daze.

What MD cards are the most useless? My current list is:

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Karakas
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Kor Haven
2 Sylvan Library
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Batterskull
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Glowrider
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaea's Cradle
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Harmonic Sliver
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Aven Mindcensor

[Water_Wizard]

I don't think you are playing an optimized list, but I would cut:
2 Sylvan Library
1 Qasali Pridemage

and add:
2 Choke
1 Aven Mindcensor

If you added some removal to your sideboard (cut 2 Teeg) for Gut Shot or PTE (use Gut Shot if you are worried about RUG).

If you add the Gut Shot/PTE, I would cut Elspeth and Thrun for the other two slots. Some people disagree and believe Elspeth and Thrun are awesome in this match-up (if you live long enough to cast them).

The other option is to remove the SFM package and blank any artifact hate the bring in (I don't like this plan, as Jitte, Batterskull and Sword of X&Y all rule in this match up, but it can be effective if you see them bringing in, say 3 Ancient Grudge or something silly like that).

Why are you running Sword of War and Peace?

You probably don't need 2 Karakas main. With KotR, 1 is enough. Probably worth dropping a Karakas and adding a Savannah or Forest in that slot.

[Humphrey]

I don't think you are playing an optimized list, but I would cut:

well, everbody has its preferences, but dont you think the library is useful in this matchup?

If you added some removal to your sideboard (cut 2 Teeg) for Gut Shot or PTE (use Gut Shot if you are worried about RUG).

I absolutely need Teeg against Miracle and Sneak Attack

Why are you running Sword of War and Peace?
Protection Swords and Lingering Souls + Protection Burn with added Lifegain. Can also end control matchups real quick.

You probably don't need 2 Karakas main. With KotR, 1 is enough. Probably worth dropping a Karakas and adding a Savannah or Forest in that slot.

I like 2 Karakas, it sometimes is an additional Wasteland and im really afraid of Emrakul

[Water_Wizard]

Library is useful in all match ups. It usually comes out against quicker decks because Maverick shifts into more of a control role (they are the beatdown). While the filter effect can be useful, especially with shuffle effects, you will rarely utilize the draw a card: pay 4 life feature against a faster deck like RUG, Burn, or Zoo.

You run 4 GSZ, so one Teeg should be enough. If you have an opening hand with 1) Noble Heirarch and GSZ or 2) double GSZ hand without Dryad Arbor, Teeg is still a 2 drop (assuming you have a green source in both).

[Tacosnape]

1. The main problem with Knights into Karakas are as follows:

-Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack/Emrakul.

-Karakas doesn't stop Griselbrand from drawing his cards.

-Karakas gets rolled by Woodfall Primus

-Karakas loses to Hive Mind, Dream Halls, and Progenitus.

Not that stopping the Emrakul isn't huge, and not that it isn't just as important to stop Griselbody as Griselbargain. Knight combined with a Revoker/Needle shuts down Griselbrand. But Knight/Karakas isn't as catchall as it used to be.

2. I'm telling you guys. Add a Sylvan Safekeeper to your 60. Your RUG Delver matchup will jump 5-10% just because of all the games you don't lose to Submerge or burn stopping your Jitte dude from getting his first hit in.

EDIT: Also, Cavern of Souls on Humans is pretty real.

[Djenin]

I've been playing Safekeeper in the main for a few months now, i've been pretty happy with it overall. I wouldn't cut down to 3 moms for it however. But as additional protection, it's been quite good. I do run 2 loams though, not sure if it will be as good without those.

[Sarterus]

RUG should be a favorable match up. A few suggestions:
Play around Wasteland.
Play Choke.
Bring in extra removal in the form of Path to Exile or Gut Shot.
Umezawa's Jitte is a beatstick.
Scavenging Ooze is even better (just make sure it doesn't get Bolted right away - bring it into play when they are tapped out of R or when you have 3+ G available and 3+ creatures in the yard).

/agree Ooze is amazing! & the Sylvan Safekeeper is better then Mom against RUG

Choke though is not as good as it appears. It does not stop force, if they are smart and leave daze in that allows them to untap additionaly many RUG players are playing a single Taiga. Choke still wrecks U and UW and some esper but is not a beating for a good RUG delver.

The better move is more removal if you stop their clock the late game goes to Maverick. PtE is great against RUG as they run no basics.

[maurobad2k4]

What do you guys think about Garruk Relentless ? There's a lot of newer lists using it, but I dont know, it seems a bit underpowered to me. Isn't Elspeth just better ?

[Water_Wizard]

Garruk is better against the Nic Fit type lists. The 2/2 (bigger body), deathtouch (flipped) and 'battle' ability can all be relevant. Also, the search feature can be nice to find your silver bullet. Elspeth is great against the mirror or anytime you need to break a ground stall with a jump boost. Both are good against control lists, as once they hit the board, it is hard for control players to answer a constant stream of tokens.

[majikal]

I think its inclusion is solely because it's easier to cast than Elspeth with Cavern of Souls in play.

[Koby]

I think its inclusion is solely because it's easier to cast than Elspeth with Cavern of Souls in play.

Still don't agree with Caverns as inclusion for this deck. If you're trying to beat counter-based combo decks with Maverick, then you're playing the wrong deck.

[majikal]

Still don't agree with Caverns as inclusion for this deck. If you're trying to beat counter-based combo decks with Maverick, then you're playing the wrong deck.
I think it's more so your Knight doesn't get Dazed against RUG Delver. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks interesting.

[mini1337s]

I think it's more so your Knight doesn't get Dazed against RUG Delver. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks interesting.
That does not seem worth it.

[majikal]

That does not seem worth it.
Whether it seems worth it or not, it's putting up results. I would not discount it so easily.

[Koby]

Whether it seems worth it or not, it's putting up results. I would not discount it so easily.

Not to derail, but the person piloting a list has more to do with how often it wins rather than the specific cards that are played. Also see, Tom Martell and Lingering Souls.

[Water_Wizard]

Also see, Tom Martell and Lingering Souls.

Implying that Lingering Souls has not put up the numbers it was expected to because the majority of Lingering Souls pilots are not as skilled as Tom Martell?

What about Lingering Souls' position in the meta at GP Indy? GP Indy was Lingering Souls' "coming out party". Martel realized it was a very strong list against the expected meta and played well (although he had some much needed draws - hit a 1-of Perish in his deck on the crucial turn in the Top 8 and had some other pretty sick hands/draws (not to discount his abilities as a player)). In any case, the meta has shifted. Cards like Sulfur Elemental, Dread of Night, Sulfuric Vortex, and Night of Soul's Betrayal all saw play after Tom Martell's GP Indy win. Going into GP Indy, Martell had to worry about none (or very few) of those cards.

It boils down to 3 factors that effect the outcome of matches:

1) Player skill. First and foremost, the skill of the player playing the deck. Secondly, the skill or lack of skill of the opponent.

2) Deck selection. Including overall deck choice and maindeck / sideboard decisions.

3) Variance or "luck". How much did you mulligan, what did you draw off the top, how much did your opponent mulligan, what did your opponent draw? How well did the two mesh? 3 Wastelands off the top against a RUG deck can equal victory, against a Burn deck, it is often death.

[Koby]

@Water_Wizard
More or less, yes that's my point. Some cards may be appearing in winning decklists that are new, untested, or overvalued by the viewer. This doesn't necessarily mean that those cards are instrumental in winning.

I think this is the case with Cavern of Souls. By Todd Andersons' feature matches from SCG Nashville:
Quarter-finals (http://starcitygames.com/events/coverage/801_quarterfinals_todd_anderson_ma.html)
Round 8 (http://starcitygames.com/events/coverage/round_8_todd_anderson_maverick.html)

"Todd cast an uncounterable Knight of the Reliquary using Cavern of Souls (Human). While Todd announced the Cavern was being used, Randy tried to Force of Will anyway."
--- Game was won on Knight beatdown.

"Todd had no turn-two play, but on turn 3, he cast Knight of the Reliquary with a Cavern of Souls on Human. Knight was a 4/4."
"Thalia came down again, with Cavern mana."
--- Game was won with Gideon.

"Todd played Cavern of Souls on Human and used it to stick an Umezawa's Jitte. On his next turn, he played a third land to resolve Knight of the Reliquary as a 3/3."
"Darkblast got rid of the 1/1, and Todd untapped, found land, and resolved Knight of the Reliquary, as he announced the use of Cavern of Souls. Justin killed it with Swords to Plowshares."
"Todd found yet another Knight of the Reliquary, and Justin vialed in Umezawa's Jitte. Justin had Vindicate for the Knight on his turn."
---- Game was won with Garruk.

You decide whether the Cavern matters here.

[Water_Wizard]

@ Koby - I agree with you. When I first saw Cavern of Souls, I never thought it would see play in Maverick (maybe in Goblins or a Welder/Chalice of the Void MUD build). I don't see the need for Cavern. If they want to Force, I'll take a 2 for 1. I can play around Daze. Most of our Humans aren't affected by Spell Snare (except Thalia). Spell Pierce, which I would venture to say is the most common counter (or at least tied with FOW), does't even hit creatures.

I appreciate the research you provided in the form of quotes (as a law school student, I spend countless time doing research and quoting legal cases and statutes).

For the sake of completeness, I want to point out some quotes in favor of Cavern of Souls.

From the Tournament Reports Section (this deck took 36/732 players at the Bazaar of Moxen Event):



I registered the following list:

2 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy

4 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Aven Mindcensor

2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB:
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Life from the Loam
2 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Choke
2 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Bojuka Bog

Short Sidenote: I played Cavern of Souls for the first time this weekend and upped them short after from 1 to 2. I would play more but that would be too much colorless mana. They are that good!

Round 9: RUG
I play against an Italian guy who plays RUG which I know because I watched a match from him in the second round. Yay for byes!
Game 1 I win because of Cavern of Souls. Playing uncounterable Knights is THAT good :D


Not to mention, the deck that split Top 4 also ran 2 Cavern of Souls (plus a lot of "free" counterspells/graveyard interaction in the sideboard).

Maverick by Marc Duran:

Lands (21)
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Gaeas Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Creatures (24)
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Kitchen Finks

Artifacts (2)
2 Umezawas Jitte

Enchantments (2)
2 Sylvan Library

Instants (5)
1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries (4)
4 Green Suns Zenith

Planeswalkers (2)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Relentless

Sideboard (15)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Choke
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Path to Exile
4 Surgical Extraction

[Darkness]

1. The main problem with Knights into Karakas are as follows:

-Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack/Emrakul.

-Karakas doesn't stop Griselbrand from drawing his cards.

-Karakas gets rolled by Woodfall Primus

-Karakas loses to Hive Mind, Dream Halls, and Progenitus.

Not that stopping the Emrakul isn't huge, and not that it isn't just as important to stop Griselbody as Griselbargain. Knight combined with a Revoker/Needle shuts down Griselbrand. But Knight/Karakas isn't as catchall as it used to be.

2. I'm telling you guys. Add a Sylvan Safekeeper to your 60. Your RUG Delver matchup will jump 5-10% just because of all the games you don't lose to Submerge or burn stopping your Jitte dude from getting his first hit in.

EDIT: Also, Cavern of Souls on Humans is pretty real.

Knight/ Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack only if the knight has summoning sickness. Remember Sneak Attack just give the creature haste, you can have them bounce the Emrakul or Griselbargain during the main phase. If they are not packing MD hate for you it's a pretty easy way to stop the attack. MD they do not pack any hate to stop Karakas, assuming they do not have a one of Progen.


Also is Krosan Grip still a possibility to battle Sneak and Show? I haven't seen any maverick decks run/ need it up until now.

[dsck]

Not to mention, the deck that won the whole event

Top 4 did split.

[Sedris]

Knight/ Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack only if the knight has summoning sickness. Remember Sneak Attack just give the creature haste, you can have them bounce the Emrakul or Griselbargain during the main phase. If they are not packing MD hate for you it's a pretty easy way to stop the attack. MD they do not pack any hate to stop Karakas, assuming they do not have a one of Progen.

[/LIST]

You are forgetting that you can tap Karakas only ONCE PER TURN.

Karakas does stop a stupid Sneaky player, thats right. But if he knows, that he just has to have 2 Red mana, he can play around Karakas easily, even with just 1 Emrakul. E.g.: SnT player Plays Sneak Attack and after paying 4 mana he has 1 untapped Volcanic Island and 1 Lous Petal left on board, and you have an active Knight. Then SnT play activates Sneak Attack by tapping Volcanic Island for R for the first time>>>

1.) >> you activate KotR at end of mainphase and bounce Emrakul with Karakas.
2.) >> you activate KotR at end of the beginning of combat step and bounce Emrakul with Karakas.
3.) >> you activate KotR in response to the annihilator trigger and bounce Emrakul with Karakas, then sacrifice 6 permanents.

If you follow Way 1.) your opponent activates SA with the Petal and brings in Emrakul again, then attacks you for 15 + annihilator.

If you follow Way 2.) your opponent activates SA with the Petal and brings in Emrakul just in the beginning of combat step, before declare attackers and attacks you for 15 + annihilator.

If you choose Way 3.) you only sacrifice 6 permanents and dont get dmg, but your opponent has Emrakul in his hand again and is going to kill you next turn.


So the best way is to tutor Maze of Ith in response to annihilator so emrakul dies at eot and you get no dmg, even that is an incredibly bad deal.

[Darkness]

This is my current list I'm bringing to SCG Worcester, MA.

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryab Ranger
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary

Artifacts:
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantments:
1 Sylvan Library

Instants:
4 Sword to Plowshares

Sorceries:
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands:
3 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

SB:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
1 Gideon Jura


Bog and Crypt are for Dredge/ GY hate
Path is an extra removal for creature decks and RUG. Gideon is there for Mirror Thinking about putting Linvala or Elspeth in his spot.
Choke is for RUG, Esper, UW Miracle
Needle Teeg Ethersworn + E Tutor are for combo alongside K. Grip for Sneak Attack and random hate to stop my creatures, i.e. Humility Ensaring Bridge, Cursed Totem, esc.

[Tacosnape]

Cavern of Souls is catchall enough to run. That colorless isn't going to bite you in the ass very often - You only have one turn one play that Cavern on Humans doesn't cover - Green Sun's Zenith into Dryad Arbor, and you don't really have -any- double mana symbols in the deck. Pridemage and Teeg are the only difficult casts.

Not getting your dudes Dazed/Forced is pretty huge.

[Darkness]

You are forgetting that you can tap Karakas only ONCE PER TURN.

Karakas does stop a stupid Sneaky player, thats right. But if he knows, that he just has to have 2 Red mana, he can play around Karakas easily, even with just 1 Emrakul. E.g.: SnT player Plays Sneak Attack and after paying 4 mana he has 1 untapped Volcanic Island and 1 Lous Petal left on board, and you have an active Knight. Then SnT play activates Sneak Attack by tapping Volcanic Island for R for the first time>>>

1.) >> you activate KotR at end of mainphase and bounce Emrakul with Karakas.
2.) >> you activate KotR at end of the beginning of combat step and bounce Emrakul with Karakas.
3.) >> you activate KotR in response to the annihilator trigger and bounce Emrakul with Karakas, then sacrifice 6 permanents.

If you follow Way 1.) your opponent activates SA with the Petal and brings in Emrakul again, then attacks you for 15 + annihilator.

If you follow Way 2.) your opponent activates SA with the Petal and brings in Emrakul just in the beginning of combat step, before declare attackers and attacks you for 15 + annihilator.

If you choose Way 3.) you only sacrifice 6 permanents and dont get dmg, but your opponent has Emrakul in his hand again and is going to kill you next turn.


So the best way is to tutor Maze of Ith in response to annihilator so emrakul dies at eot and you get no dmg, even that is an incredibly bad deal.

Touché

[Water_Wizard]

Top 4 did split.

Thank you - I made an edit above.

[Krondo9]

Top8ed a legacy tournament at DHG today with Maverick (Bant Splash). After losing to RUG delver 3 times, which I previously thought was unlosable, I have made a few changes to my deck. Here is my current list:


1 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Path to Exile
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sylvan Library
2 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Tropical Island
1 Plains
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction

Here are some comments I have about my old list and new list:

1. Linvala was actually pretty underwhelming and never came in against any of my matchups. I would be good against elves, but path/swords is probably enough to beat them. Also, they have the beat-down plan so you arent winning if they have time to set up elvish archdruid. I am cutting her for a 3rd path to exile, which is no-drawback swords against RUG delver and does the same thing in the mirror.

2. I am going to try a 1-of tarmogoyf. Against combo he puts on a faster clock, its either going to be tarmogoyf or a 3rd ooze. Against RUG delver he stops mongoose, and if they have no/one card in hand, he stops tarmogoyf as well.

3. Aven Mindcensor is fairly underwhelming, and should definitely not be a 2-of. 1-of was fine for me, as it was not very relevant, but 2-of is just bad.

4. Thalia is not very good against RUG. While she slows down their cantrips and spells, she cant trade with anything, so it doesnt make sense to keep her in. I also wouldnt recommend siding in Chokes on the draw, as RUG delver is usually ahead by then.

Anyways, let me know your guys thoughts on this. I'm hoping to make some final tweaks to my deck to prepare it for SCG worcester. If anyone has questions regarding the blue splash, just know that I was 2-0 against Sneak and Show today, just by threatening blue/having spell pierce.

[from Cairo]

I think Linvala is more valuable than a Path to Exile in the mirror. Path to Exile obviously has much wider application though. Also, I could agree with taking out Thalia against RUG if you expect they're on Sulfur Elemental. If you're expecting more pointed removal or Pyroclasm effects I think Thalia's worth keeping in.

[Basaka]

Decided to play Maverick at a $500 store credit tournament today. I usually play combo but I thought I'd surprise people (plus I've been running pretty bad lately)

Rd 1: bye

Rd 2: loss to Sneak show

Rd 3: lose to sneak show AGAIN (the only 2 players out of the whole room of 30)

at this point I figured I'm probably not going to top 8, but what the heck.

Rd 4: win against aluren (yes this deck still exists!)

Rd 5: win vs bant maverick (Linvala is MVP)

Rd 6: win vs NO RUG (feels good to beat a proggy on board)

4-2, ended up 9th :(

Basically, I did not dedicate any specific hate for S&S (i.e. no revoker, needle), and used good old hatebears instead.
The matchup, although slightly unfavourable (0-2 hurts though), is by no means unwinnable, so I really wouldn't see myself dedicating more than 2 or so slots. I also misplayed a bit, since I've never played a single game with Maverick till round 2 (which is my first time playing against S&S too).

This reminds me when I played Junk... and got paired against 2 43 land decks. I just run so bad at magic when it comes to matchups (lol).

[bartmanqc]

WHat do you think of Guilded Drake againt Show and Tell deck?

[Mkr]

Hey all, I'm pretty new to Maverick and I just want to ask what do you guys think is the correct play in this situation:

Preboard, Turn 2 (on the draw), my turn:

Opp's board: Tapped Flipped Delver, Volcanic Island, Scalding Tarn

My board: Forest, Dryad Arbor
My hand: Windswept Heath, Sylvan Library, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, Qasali Pridemage, Thalia
My GY: Misty Rainforest

[from Cairo]

Hey all, I'm pretty new to Maverick and I just want to ask what do you guys think is the correct play in this situation:

Preboard, Turn 2 (on the draw), my turn:

Opp's board: Tapped Flipped Delver, Volcanic Island, Scalding Tarn

My board: Forest, Dryad Arbor
My hand: Windswept Heath, Sylvan Library, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, Qasali Pridemage, Thalia
My GY: Misty Rainforest

We should have a known Instant/Sorcery in hand off the Delver flip that could dictate line of play, but w/o that information...

I think the presented pressure of a flipped Delver is pretty noteworthy. If they lead a Nimble or fail to blind flip a Delver I would tend to play more conservatively, but realistically you're facing 4 turns to swing board state. Honestly this is a bad place to be with Maverick, there's a good chance they have Daze or FoW up, and with 2 mana available they have free reign to Stifle your next fetch and still interact with your play.

I'd play/crack Windswept Heath. If allowed to fetch I'd either aggressively pull Savannah for it's better interaction with a potential GSZ'd Scryb or alternatively Plains if trying to solidify up against Wasteland. Regardless with my :g::g::w:, I'd jam Knight of the Reliquary. It maybe gets Dazed or FoW'd but those spells are going to counter something. We have 2x Fetches in the 'yard at this point so Knight's in the clear vs Bolt effects. If they have the FoW or Daze the following turn's line of play should probably be GSZ for Scryb Ranger, return Savannah, untap Dryad Arbor, replay and push Thalia. With the Plains I'd probably GSZ for Scryb if I didn't hit the land or push QPM then Thalia if I hit the 4th mana source.

If they've countered the Knight they've likely pitched a conditional counter to FoW (Pierce or Snare so they've got less game against GSZ and Thalia respectively) or they've Dazed they're back a land drop that makes Thalia's Sphere effect even better. If the Heath is Stifled I would push Thalia and follow up with Pridemage most likely the following turn.

I guess I can address the cards I'd hold back and the reasoning. Namely Sylvan Library and Green Sun's Zenith. I'd hold Sylvan back because it does not apply pressure to race Delver and your lack of board presence leaves you in no position to be using the -4: draw. There's definitely some good potential dig to be had, ie if you drop the Heath and can get the Library down w/o a crack you can dig the top 3 for a Plow and potentially fetch to get a shuffle and dig a different 3 the following turn. While this plays around Daze and helps find the answer to Delver. I don't think it's a winning proposition to try to out dig Delver, they have 8+ cantrips and w/o Thalia down should have less issue finding the FoW or Spell Pierce than Maverick does finding the Swords to Plowshares. I'd hold the GSZ back at least a turn, Knight presents better ability to race than rushing out GSZ into Scryb Ranger. I'd lean towards the Savannah pull, because I like having the Ranger + Thalia follow up though to at least buy some time.

Again if the Delver flipped off anything other than a cantrip it could have a big impact on line of play.

IDK, that would be my line of thinking/play given the knowns.

[legend88]

hey guys, new to the forum but wanted to make a quick post. played in the scg open today with the fauna shaman version of the deck. made top 16 with the deck. the unlikely mvp for me today was the maindeck peacekeeper. it allowed me to get past several show and tell matchups and a belcher's empty the warrens. Definitely a metagame call and I can completely understand if some believe it is completely aweful to maindeck, but it paid off today. did not take long

Round 1 Game 1 (i win die roll)

me: turn 1 noble
opp: island preordain
me: turn 2 fauna shaman
opp: ponder fetch volcanic preordain
me: turn 3 pass with 3 open mana
opp: comments that i should have just played mindcensor on my turn when he is tapped out.
opp: turn 3 show and tell, me response fetch peace keeper, opponent goes on tilt

[Water_Wizard]

opp: turn 3 show and tell, me response fetch peace keeper, opponent goes on tilt

Hahaha! Love it! Good meta call :)

[Koby]

opp: turn 3 show and tell, me response fetch peace keeper, opponent goes on tilt

This made my day. Use every opportunity to tilt hurpy-durpy opponents!

[Thorondor]

We should have a known Instant/Sorcery in hand off the Delver flip that could dictate line of play, but w/o that information...

I think the presented pressure of a flipped Delver is pretty noteworthy. If they lead a Nimble or fail to blind flip a Delver I would tend to play more conservatively, but realistically you're facing 4 turns to swing board state. Honestly this is a bad place to be with Maverick, there's a good chance they have Daze or FoW up, and with 2 mana available they have free reign to Stifle your next fetch and still interact with your play.

I'd play/crack Windswept Heath. If allowed to fetch I'd either aggressively pull Savannah for it's better interaction with a potential GSZ'd Scryb or alternatively Plains if trying to solidify up against Wasteland. Regardless with my :g::g::w:, I'd jam Knight of the Reliquary. It maybe gets Dazed or FoW'd but those spells are going to counter something. We have 2x Fetches in the 'yard at this point so Knight's in the clear vs Bolt effects. If they have the FoW or Daze the following turn's line of play should probably be GSZ for Scryb Ranger, return Savannah, untap Dryad Arbor, replay and push Thalia. With the Plains I'd probably GSZ for Scryb if I didn't hit the land or push QPM then Thalia if I hit the 4th mana source.

well, if fetch is allowed, I would land thalia for sure and play around daze as long as possible. Especially with thalia on board he can only kill it next turn, if he has no spell snare or force, forcing thalia is even better, since we can land knight later if we draw another land even with playing around daze.
playing into daze when you are not really pressed hard is just wrong, a flipped delver with still 17 life points is not that bad. Since a Knight on board is kind of a win, you need to do everything possible to resolver it. If you can evade daze DO IT or if you have time left, WAIT for it.

[conley1000000]

Had a pretty good run yesterday at the SCG Open in Columbus. Finished 9th, .8xx of a percentage point on breakers. Started out 0-1-1 and railed of 7 straight wins for a shot at top 8 and just missed. And for the record it was a phyrexian revoker, not metamorph in my sb. Was very happy with the deck all day.

[Tacosnape]

Hey all, I'm pretty new to Maverick and I just want to ask what do you guys think is the correct play in this situation:

Preboard, Turn 2 (on the draw), my turn:

Opp's board: Tapped Flipped Delver, Volcanic Island, Scalding Tarn

My board: Forest, Dryad Arbor
My hand: Windswept Heath, Sylvan Library, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, Qasali Pridemage, Thalia
My GY: Misty Rainforest

This depends on several factors we don't know:
1. What your opponent's holding off the flipped Delver.
2. What your life total is (I assume 16 or 17)
3. How many lands are in your graveyard (IE, whether you fetched the first forest or not)
4. Are you maindecking Maze of Ith? (You should be)
5. How many cards are in your opponent's hand?

The primary points to this situation are as follows:
1. From this board position, you aren't going to outrace this Delver. Not against a deck full of burn and sneaky counters.
2. Therefore, you've got to do everything you can to STOP this Delver.

Three cards in your hand could let you stop Delver: Knight of the Reliquary (If you have the Maze, like you should), Sylvan Library (If it digs you into Swords to Plowshares or a Jitte), and Green Sun's Zenith for either Knight or Scryb Ranger, which is a last ditch choice because it won't actually kill the Delver and dies to burn.

It's also worth noting you don't have a fourth or fifth mana source. Which means if he's got a Stifle and a Daze or two, you're just dead. Period.

So assuming he got a non-counter off the Delver, and assuming I'm running Maze, I'd probably play my fetchland and not crack it, then lead with the Sylvan. If he has a counter off the Delver, I think I'd lead with Thalia and make him spend something getting rid of it.

Either way, if you don't draw a land or STP next turn, you're hurting.

[Mkr]

Ooops, sorry for the incomplete information. Missed quite a few details. Anyways, awesome responses guys - learning quite a lot.

My MD is nearly the same as conley1000000's (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=46663), 3 card difference:
-1 Linvala
-1 Qasali PM
-1 Cavern of Souls
+2 Aven Mindcensor
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper

Here's a better description:
Opp T1:
Volcanic Island, Delver

My T1:
Opening hand: Windswept Heath, Misty Rainforest, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, GSZ, Thalia, Sylvan Library; drew QPM
Fetch Forest, GSZ to Dryad Arbor

Opp T2:
Blind flip Delver with Thought Scour, Scalding Tarn (5 cards in hand). Attack with Delver.

My T2 (now at 16 life):
Drew 2nd QPM; Main phase

What I did was to try and fetch for a Plains - if it goes through, cast Thalia; if not, play the Library instead. No Stifle so Thalia gets in but on his turn - Forked Bolt. Ouch. Never drew Swords, but eventually I was able to stabilize a bit with an Active Knight when I was down to 4. Unfortunately on the next few turns he cantripped his way to burn and was able to finish me before my creatures ran him over. :laugh:

[ryscott85]

There was an article on SCG a few weeks ago stating that maverick should make some changes for the current meta by trying to include Armageddon.. I'd like everyone's thoughts on if this. Would it be a valid addition to Mavrick to improve any of our bad matchups? If so, in what way.. and also what would we cut?

[delcameron]

I have seen the occasional Gideon Jura pop up in a few lists' sideboards and I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this. In what matchups would you bring him in?

[conley1000000]

I have seen the occasional Gideon Jura pop up in a few lists' sideboards and I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this. In what matchups would you bring him in?

For me his main purpose was to come in for the Maverick mirror. He also works as a catch-all for the random creature decks you can face i.e. elves, goblins, affinity(my round 4 match) to just help get reset after the super fast starts they can sometimes have. It definetly looks akward with Thalia, but usually she comes out and he comes in.


There was an article on SCG a few weeks ago stating that maverick should make some changes for the current meta by trying to include ArmageddonI haven't tested armageddon, but it seems like Thalia/wasteland combined do a fantastic job holding opponents off a high output of mana. I run choke sb for the control decks who would want alot of mana available and it seemed to do the trick quite well.

[Fade]

There was an article on SCG a few weeks ago stating that maverick should make some changes for the current meta by trying to include Armageddon.. I'd like everyone's thoughts on if this. Would it be a valid addition to Mavrick to improve any of our bad matchups? If so, in what way.. and also what would we cut?

Armageddon is a very powerful card. If you play it when you are ahead you will almost always win. However, if you play it and you don't find any mana, you have set yourself so far behind that a topdecked terminus will just lose you the game. You are running 22-24 lands plus Noble Hierarchs and I know there have been times where I have been manascrewed even with that much mana.

You also have to recognize that with a Thalia in play that you have to pay 5 to cast it and once you cast it your GSZ still costs one more. So when you plan to armageddon you are typically losing 4 lands (assuming you have a Hierarch in play) and you have done so on turn 4 or 5. I think this is too late against most decks right now. RUG Delver can out tempo you and it only needs 1-3 lands to play their deck efficiently and Sneak and Show plays sol lands to counteract the Thalia and still Show and Tell on turn 3 or Sneak Attack on turn 4.

I think armageddon is could be very good right now but it would require you to build the deck completely different in order to come out ahead after you armageddon. Maybe this requires adding a few Mox Diamonds or Chrome Moxes to the list or even Flagstones. I don't know but I think it has potential.

[Asthereal]

For all who are sceptical about Armageddon, I would like to add an alternative: Tangle Wire.
For the first two turns it does about the same, but your own recovery is easier and it costs a mana less.

Against control, Tangle Wire is a lot less strong than Armageddon, because it only works a couple of turns, and it doesn't shut down all mana sources, just a few. But, against Show&tell and Storm it's quicker and shuts them down for a few turns, giving you just enough time to either kill them or set up a line of hatebears.
Against RUG Delver it's also playable. Wire gives you the initiative, and that alone can turn a match around in which he opened a t2: flip Delver (something Mav typically has issues with).

I'd test this before I'd test Geddon.

[Water_Wizard]

Gideon is mainly for the mirror (gets Mom's to attack or tap and causes blocking shortages allowing for alpha strike). Gideon's -2 ability can also act like a 5th swords effect, especially on the turn Gideon comes into play. conley1000000, interesting note about the random creature decks. I guess Gideon acts as a 1-turn fog effect and allows you to selectively block.

Armageddon - there is a lot of Spell Pierce running around. I'm wary because paying 6 for Armageddon is impractical. It's probably best to run Life from the Loam and Wastelands (or Ghost Quarter if you really wanted to get tricky). I haven't read the SCG article, but I have seen at least one recent Maverick sideboard with Armageddon in it. Personally, I think it's more suited for white stax or another control deck. You don't necessarily want to play long games with Maverick, it's preferable to stabilize and get in a few swings for a mid-game (turn 6-9) win.

Tangle Wire probably belongs in another deck (MUD or a blue deck), but it is a nice card. As Asthereal mentions, it shines vs. Tempo decks that have few permanents in play. Additionally, Tangle Wire counts as a permanent itself, so you always have to tap 2 fewer permanents than your opponent (you place Tangle Wire's tap trigger on the stack, followed by Tangle Wire's remove 1 counter trigger, so you remove a counter before you tap (1 less permanent tapped than your opponent) and you can tap the Tangle Wire). I built a blue deck that attempted Tangle Wire / Esperzoa locks, and it worked when both pieces were found, but it could be inconsistent.

[Koby]

Tsunami seems like a better approach here than Armageddon against control.

[Hopo]

Tsunami seems like a better approach here than Armageddon against control.

Or even better, you can play a 3-mana Tsunami called Choke. Instead of being bad with Thalia, it has some synergy going on there.

[Einherjer]

Or even better, you can play a 3-mana Tsunami called Choke. Instead of being bad with Thalia, it has some synergy going on there.
Why isn't Choke bad with Thalia? And Chocke is easier to handle, due to cards like Plains, Glacial Fortress ... casting a Disenchant.

[Waikiki]

I think he means choke makes the opponent tap more islands thnx to thalia

[dunk]

Tsunami seems like a better approach here than Armageddon against control.

I don't get it either. Not getting to destroy their plains and weirdolands like Glacial Fortress seems to suck a lot. Also, our Knight don't get lethal.

Anyway, this Armageddon plan sounds more like an incentive from SCG to sell cards which are too heavily stocked. I can see the coolness of Armageddon, but not the usefulness. It already is super expensive, even more expensive with Thalia and uncastable with Gaddock out. Gaddock is probably the better answer against UW, but still a flawed one. Zeniths and Planeswalkers become worse if you play multiple Gaddocks, which I'm ok with, but the bigger drawback is still not being able to overextent as a Sword / Path / Snapcaster followed by Terminus still says GG. If you can protect Gaddock with either Mom or even better, Sylvan Safekeeper, things should look good. Hatebear + protector is also good against most combodecks. I can easily imagine cutting a Mother from the maindeck if you are tight on space, or at least find space for a maindeck Sylvan Safekeeper, protecting our hatebears was never so important as it is today.

[Hopo]

armageddon was a nice piece of tech in New horizons and it might as well be a decent card at some point against some really heavy control deck, but not with Thalia. And it would beg you to play Terravore as well.

[door]

As much as I know there are no problems with heavy control decks at present. I don't know what kind of problems Armageddon could solve, so I believe it doesn't belong to this deck.
The biggest problem for me is Sneak'n Show. What do you think about playing 2 karakas md? Instead of the second plains for example?

[Tacosnape]

If you want to beat heavy control decks, sideboard more Gaddock Teegs. Rumor has it that card eats UW Miracles. Also, like I've been telling people for a year now, Sylvan Safekeeper is a real card. In a lot of situations, it outshines Mother of Runes.

A Safekeeper and a Gaddock Teeg on the board is essentially game over for UW Miracles. They'll never get enough removal to beat the Safekeeper, and have no real way to stop it.

[ScatmanX]

The biggest problem for me is Sneak'n Show. What do you think about playing 2 karakas md? Instead of the second plains for example?
That sounds decent.
A good card for Mav right now is Crop Rotation.
Post board it can get Karakas against SnT/Reanimator, or Bob against Dredge/Reanimator, other than getting whatever you may need any given time.

[Koby]

That sounds decent.
A good card for Mav right now is Crop Rotation.
Post board it can get Karakas against SnT/Reanimator, or Bob against Dredge/Reanimator, other than getting whatever you may need any given time.

My favorite use is +2/+2 for Knight against Burn/lethal damage. :P

[Tacosnape]

Crop Rotation's okay if your metagame warrants it. It's a little narrow, though, and I'd only do it if Dredge was a serious contender in a specific tournament - Rotation is at its best against Dredge, firing off with Narcomoeba triggers on the stack and whatnot, and Dredge is the only deck listed that can't just counter the Crop Rotation and leave you in six worlds of hurt.

[Koby]

If we were to design a Maverick build with the explicit purpose of having positive Sneak Show and RUG matchups, how would we go about building it?

I think that Mother of Runes would be on the chopping block for such a build, along with Pridemage dropping back down to x2 or even x1. Fauna Shaman / Linvala are still fairly decent for being flexible and give us a maindeck out against Griselbrand. I would even consider trying out 1x Crop Rotation as an extra "kotr activation".

[Esper3k]

Splash blue to give you a chance at combating it on the stack? Opens up sideboard options like Meddling Mage as well.

[Lorenzo767]

If we were to design a Maverick build with the explicit purpose of having positive Sneak Show and RUG matchups, how would we go about building it?

I think that Mother of Runes would be on the chopping block for such a build, along with Pridemage dropping back down to x2 or even x1. Fauna Shaman / Linvala are still fairly decent for being flexible and give us a maindeck out against Griselbrand. I would even consider trying out 1x Crop Rotation as an extra "kotr activation".

Why you suggest to cut Qasali when it allow us to bounce the creature with karakas and destroy S. Attacck on response?
I think another good option could be to increase to 4 the copies of Thalia Maindeck!

I also think that another way is to play a sideboard with some copies of Flusterstorm/Spell Pierce (for Show and Tel) and Pithing needle/phyrexian revoker (for S. Attacck and Griselbrand).

[Fade]

If we were to design a Maverick build with the explicit purpose of having positive Sneak Show and RUG matchups, how would we go about building it?

I think that Mother of Runes would be on the chopping block for such a build, along with Pridemage dropping back down to x2 or even x1. Fauna Shaman / Linvala are still fairly decent for being flexible and give us a maindeck out against Griselbrand. I would even consider trying out 1x Crop Rotation as an extra "kotr activation".

Maybe faster acceleration that they can't actually deal with. Right now we have Nobles and Dryad which speeds us up and Thalia to slow them down. But all of those die to their various bolts. Maybe something like Chrome Mox or Mox Diamond could help and might be a good starting position. The Moxen also plays around wasteland pretty well too.

[menace13]

Play 4 Karakas

[Water_Wizard]

There are lots of situational cards you could run - an extra Karakas (or 3, as menace suggests), Parallax Wave, Teeg, KotR, Retribution of the Meek, Ensnaring Bridge, Phyrexian Metamorph, Phyrexian Revoker, red splash for Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast (especially effective with Teeg and Canonist in play), Tariff, Sigarda, Host of Herons (limited interaction with Emrakul), Angel of Jubilation (limited interaction with Griselbrand), Peacekeeper, Pithing Needle.

Maybe the best bet is running 3 Ensnaring Bridge in the board and either 1) drop it into play of Show and Tell, or 2) Ramp to it turn 2/3 (before they can cast/use Sneak Attack).

Kismet or any other cards that make creatures come into play tapped.

[ESG]

Ensnaring Bridge isn't a real answer post-board. Sneak and Show runs Echoing Truth in the board. They drop Griselbrand; you drop Ensnaring Bridge. They pay life and find their bounce spell, then attack and gain back the life. It's very, very easy for them to sculpt a hand for almost any situation when they can snap-draw 7. I feel like people don't appreciate how huge that ability is. Peacekeeper has the same problem. Both would be great in Game 1, however. Retribution of the Meek likely gets Forced off their draw 7, so I don't like that. I feel like Pithing Needle and Revoker are best because you can play them proactively and Show them in. They prevent the Sneak and Show player from drawing when they Show in Griselbrand. Then you can Swords him or bounce him with Karakas, or drop Knight a turn later and then find Karakas. Ultimately, you want a lot of live cards against the deck that overlap. Four Karakas is too many, since they have no way to destroy it. If they DO have a way to destroy it, then maybe four is fine, but I would rather run 2 Karakas along with 2 other answers than run 4 Karakas.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

If we were to design a Maverick build with the explicit purpose of having positive Sneak Show and RUG matchups, how would we go about building it?

Badnt.

[Water_Wizard]

If we were to design a Maverick build with the explicit purpose of having positive Sneak Show and RUG matchups, how would we go about building it?


I'm not sure if this is trick question or not :)

If you want to beat Sneak and Show and RUG, the obvious choice is not to play Maverick.

If you want to beat Sneak and Show and RUG and keep the Maverick shell, splash black for discard and edict effects, then you're basically playing Junk.

EDIT: The RUG match up isn't really that bad. It's mainly sneak and show we need to worry about.

[door]

As I was thinking with myself, I came to the following conclusions:
- playing multiple Karakas doesn't actually help - it does not prevent Grisel to draw and they answer with Blood Moon on it
- Mother of Runes is a key to beating them, as it protects our Revoker, Peacekeeper and Thalia against their bounce and Pyroclasm/Firespout
- Qasali is very important, as it destroys Blood Moon and Sneak Attack
- Stoneforge Mystic can find Sword of FireIce to protect our hate creatures against bounce/burn
- Obviously they'll have to side out their counter magic to fit in Firespouts, bounce and Blood Moons. In this case the key in the second game will be to protect our hate, not to cast it. Also splashing red for blasts will be OK, if we don't show red sources in the first game
I consider playing peacekeeper+revoker+eladamri's call as well as multiple ensnaring bridges and pithing needle in sb, as well as a peacekeeper in the mdeck next to fauna shaman
The question for me is whether I should side out StP or not. It does not help with Emrakul and drawing from Grisel, but once I shut them down with bridge or revoker there still remains a 7/7 lifelink blocker with flying

[Water_Wizard]

I think it's right to leave some number of STP in. The question comes what to cut, and you can probably part with the equipment package, or at least the SFMs. Also, any Planeswalkers or Thruns you run can find their way into the sideboard. I think 3 STP is ideal vs. Sneak and Show. While they can -7/+7 to find an answer, the loss of 7 life can hurt and then they have to pay another life for FOW. 8 life can add up, especially combined with some fetchland activations, Ancient Tomb, and early beats.

[Humphrey]

What about Captain Sisay?
It can also fetch Karakas, but also Thalia, Thrun and Jitte.
Maybe you can add some more Legendary Cards to get more value, like Kor Haven or Flagstones of Trokair

[Vandalize]

What about Captain Sisay?
It can also fetch Karakas, but also Thalia, Thrun and Jitte.
Maybe you can add some more Legendary Cards to get more value, like Kor Haven or Flagstones of Trokair

Sounds horrible and fun. Maybe Sigarda is a nice target, as well. Have you tested it?

[AlmostGrown]

I'd rather play Fauna Shaman which is actually good and has real applications than something terribad like Sisay. The only version of Maverick she'd be good in is the loyal retainers build, but then Fauna shaman is still better I think.

[Nutox]

To tweak G/W Maverick solely for better RUG/SnT matchups... well...

With all credit due to those who made the suggestions... I think for these two decks, my choices have a touch of synergy and aren't totally useless in other matchups.

+Linvala +Fauna Shaman

-4 Mother of Runes, +4 Sylvan Safekeeper.

Run 1x Tilling Treefolk if you want to find the room. Life from the Loam can't chump block a 'Goyf. Wastelock is win-more here I think.

-1 Sylvan Library, -1 Sword of Light and Shadow, +2 Parallax Wave.

Not completely useless vs. RUG. Hard if Thalia sticks, but PWave > Ancient Grudge. I've tested this a fair amount, and it's bonkers vs. Sneak Show. They will usually Draw 14 in response. I will usually beat face FTW with hatebear. Way more versatile than Ensaring Bridge. Also: Legend Rule Lulz tends to keep the board open. Can be played around, still the best answer.

-2 SB slots of your Choice, +2 Peacekeeper

The Concession. Can you reliably stick two Revokers?
2x Echoing Truth + 1x Shattering Spree > 2x Echoing Truth.
Emrakul > Revoker.
RUG > Revoker.
Rule of Law > Peacekeeper > things like Elfball > Revoker.
Revokers > tons of other stuff.
Peacekeeper works a lot better with Mother of Runes for alpha-strike, oh well.
It's a call I can't really make.
Keep Canonist.

-Teeg, -Mindcensor, +2 Vexing Shusher

Let's face it, running GSZ into countermagic vs. Blue Deck is fine. Running GSZ into countermagic vs. RUG sucks. Snappy sucks. Makes proactive hate cards vs. Sneak Show relevant. Eats burn otherwise directed at dome. No slower than a Fauna Shaman.

-3 Choke, +3 Carpet of Flowers

Severe beatings for any blue combo deck that stalls out, I've had some hilarious wins vs. storm w/o Thalia even out. The extra mana even against Sneak Show you'll find highly relevant for clocking.
RUG punishes nobody besides Maverick with 8x white weenies for overextending.

Sure, it's a nonbo with Wasteland. But combined with Wasteland, gives 7x cards to manage the mana/tempo situation in the two matchups we're considering, two very fast decks.

Also, either Gaea's Cradle or Dryad Arbor (ouch) gets cut for +1 Basic Plains? Arbor eats bolts like a champ. And honestly, Maze of Ith should be coming in, regardless of Wasteland. One more out to Griselbrand beats and 'Goyf. I don't know. This is probably where Qasali goes to 2x.

Keep that Oblivion Ring in the SB, too.

It's a stretch, and significantly hurts the matchups against many other Tier decks over the stock list.

[mini1337s]

Is this safe to say in regards to Sylvan Safekeeper?

Safekeeper Upsides:

Protects when Mom has summoning sickness
Protects when your opponent has multiple instances of spot removal
Increases the power and toughness of KotR (not as relevant unless KotR is summoning sick).

Safekeeper Downsides:

Can’t give Protection from X color to push through lethal damage or remove a planeswalker
Restricts/depletes your manabase. Seems like it may have limited uses unless you run Life from the Loam
Can’t solo block creatures without dying.

I think I’m comfortable running a single Sylvan Safekeeper in the main, or potentially in the side. It seems like Life from the Loam becomes a necessary addition to the deck if Safekeeper is added (especially in multiples), particularly in the mainboard, but that might be incorrect.
The biggest issue for me is space; in order to run Sylvan Safekeeper, the only relevant flex spaces are Mother of Runes (don’t like trimming them down to 3 and reducing my chances of seeing them) or Scryb Ranger (very powerful solo slot already). I run 4x Qasili Pridemage in the main, so I might be able to trim that down to 3x.

My proposed list:
MAINDECK
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Fauna Shaman
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence

4x Green Sun’s Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Umezawa’s Jitte
1x Sylvan Library

4x Savannah
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
3x Forest
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Gaea’s Cradle
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith

SIDEBOARD:
3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Parallax Wave OR Peacekeeper (Wave seems like a better catch all)
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Bojuka Bog OR a 2nd Karakas? (Bojuka Bog has served me well)
1x Harmonic Sliver (too many people dropping Pithing Needle on Pridemage)

[Water_Wizard]

You made the right decision by cutting Pridemage to add Safekeeper.

If you are running Fauna Shaman main, Peacekeeeper is better in the side, as you have more ways of finding it. Plus, it gets online a turn quicker. Plus, it can be protected with your Moms and Safekeeper.

[Humphrey]

I tested Sisay and she is not bad, I would def play her for CC3. 4 is to much. But she is an additional way to find karakas if the opponent shows and tell.

What do you guys think of
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132166&d=1339387452

Seems pretty decent.

[mini1337s]

You made the right decision by cutting Pridemage to add Safekeeper.

If you are running Fauna Shaman main, Peacekeeeper is better in the side, as you have more ways of finding it. Plus, it gets online a turn quicker. Plus, it can be protected with your Moms and Safekeeper.

Yeah, I think you are spot on about Peacekeeper. I've tested a few hours, admittedly on the ol' Cockatrice, but after playing Sneak and Show a few times, Oblivion Ring was doing what I want Wave to do, but Wave is far too difficult to cast fast enough without leaving my defenses down. Show and Tell seems to be a one-for-one situation, so I was just as happy to slap down an O-Ring, regardless being unable to counteract Pay 7, Draw 7.

What cards do people typically side-out for Sneak and Show? It seems most lists are set on just rushing out their combo as soon as possible, not bothering to remove our threats outside of using counter-magic. In testing, I found myself siding out Mother of Runes, Scryb Ranger, and Scavenging Ooze, leaving Sylvan Safekeeper in the event my opponent did use spot removal.

OUT:
4x Mother of Runes
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Scavenging Ooze

IN:
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Harmonic Sliver
2x Parallax Wave (soon to be Peacekeeper)

Does anyone with more experience in this matchup have any suggestions?

[pocari79]

Went to a local tournament for a Mox Pearl. Thought there wasn't going to be a lot of people going so I went with an experimental sideboard build. There ended up being 39 players which was crazy considering it was the first legacy tournament for the store. Here's the list:

4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
3 Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Kor Haven
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fauna Shaman
1 Terravore
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library

4 Path to Exile
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Choke
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ethersworn Canonist

First of all, I prefer the Kor Haven over Maze since it produces mana. Plus it leaves the attacker untapped so if they do attack, you can attack back next turn. Fauna shaman is just amazing if it ever gets active since you can just get any hate bear or beater on demand. On the sideboard, I wanted to try the spirit guides because a lot of time when you play against combo and they're on the play, they can just kill you before you get your turn two so I wanted to try to land a thorn or Thalia on turn 1. I probably should have done 3 Path and 4 Spirit Guides.

The tournament turned out pretty miserable as I went 2-4 playing against 5 different combo decks. This will be a quick and dirty report as there's really no point in recapping how I lost on turn 1 or 2.

Round 1 - Welder MUD

Game 1: He played turn 1 welder and I didn't have a plow. Next turn he played faithless looting, discarding sundering titan and wurmcoil, played a lotus petal and welded in the titan. Over the next two turns, my lands got nuked and lots of wurm tokens were made. Fun!

Boarded a bunch of Paths and took out Thalias as he's going to be casting creatures.

Game 2: I had 2 plows and 1 path in my opening hand but he played a turn 3 chalice for 1. Then he was able to get a Forgemaster before I could pridemage away the chalice and again, he was able to tinker repeatedly for titans and wurmcoils and I couldn't kill the forgemaster equipped with greaves.

0-1

Round 2 - Dredge

Game 1: I have no idea what he's playing and he just goes turn 1 Gemstone, go so i'm thinking ugh, dredge or TES. I had 2 Zeniths in my hand and drew a third one so I decided to get a dryad arbor and passed. Next turn, he plays a therapy naming ooze so I know for sure he's dredge now. He whiffs on the ooze and next turn I get an ooze with another zenith. He dredges next turn but gets some awful dredges and I get to untap with the ooze. Next turn, I decide to play and equip ooze with Jitte which was a misplay as I'm giving him another turn where he can dredge into something nasty but again, he dredges nothing worth while and then I end up with an ooze with 5 green sources open plus jitte counters.

Boarded in paths and explosives and took out all the high casting and useless creatures.

Game 2: He does nothing for two turns other than make two land drops. I figure he has something like firestorm so I have to force him to use it as i have an ooze, fauna shaman and zenith in my opening hand. I cast the ooze and he firestorms discarding two dredgers. Again, he dredges and gets absolutely nothing and the rest of the game
wasn't very exciting as I end up landing an ooze again with a jitte equipped and I was able to remove all of his narcomebas with the trigger on the stack.

1-1

Round 3 - Sneak/Show

Game 1: Didn't get a Thalia, he was able to show and tell Gristlebrand into play. I tried to plow it in response to him drawing 7 but he was able to misdirect it to another creature of mine and that was it. He had way too much card advantage as he started discarding sneak attacks so I figured he has all blue cards in hand.

Boarded in the spirit guides, thorns and chokes and took out stuff like jittes, ooze, thrun, etc..

Game 2: I believe we both mulled to 6. I manage to land a turn 2 Thalia and wasted a volcanic and apparently that was it as he just kept drawing Emrakuls and Gristlebrands with no lands or sneak/show.

Game 3: I mulled to 6 and have awkward mana with 1 fetchland, cradle and wasteland. It does have mom and teeg so I thought I was ok so I fetched a plains to play a mom and then he ended up playing a turn two blood moon and that was pretty much the game as I kept on drawing non basics and couldn't play any of my creatures which was frustrating.

1-2

Round 4 - Belcher

Game 1: I knew what he was playing so I mulled to 5 to try to get a turn 2 thalia but he was on the play and had the turn 1 kill. Hooray, spent more time mulling than actual playing.

Boarded in spirit guides, thorns, explosives, canonist and took out all the irrevelant creatures and removal spells.

Game 2: we both mulled to 5 and I had to keep a hand with an explosives, thorn and three lands. I drop the turn 1 explosives on zero and he was able to turn 1 activate belcher. Before he flipped I joked with him that he's going to flip his taiga on the 10th card. He started flipping and that's exactly what happened. So I took 18, then fetched go to down to 1 and proceed to never draw another colored source so I couldn't play pridemage but I was able to get a fauna shaman down so I could tutor up a thalia so I had a thalia and a thorn in play. I ended up winning as he couldn't draw into a spirit guide to cast his LED.

Game 3: I mulled to 6 and he mulled to 5. I mulled into a 5 land, thalia hand and didn't want to risk another hand with no hate bears. He didn't do anything and I was able to play a thalia on turn two. Unfortunately, i drew around 10 lands this game and this allowed him to play his moxes using spirit guides and he was able to play two
tinder walls, pitch spirit guide, hardcast charbelcher and activate it with LED that he played on turn 1. I had so many outs that game it wasn't funny but that's what happens when all you can draw is land.

1-3

Round 5 - High Tide

Game 1: I draw no hate. He mills me on turn 3. wohoo.

Boarded in chokes, guides, thorns, canonists.

Game 2: I mull to 6, only see thalia and a couple of lands and some other useless stuff. Didn't really want to mull more. He's able to counter my Thalia on turn 2 and then two turns he forces me to draw my entire deck.

After our match, he's like do you play teeg? Zenith? Any hate cards? Yeah, that's how awful my draw was. I tell him my board and i guess he's relieved that he didn't see any of it.

1-4

Round 6 - Elves

Game 1: I never saw him cast glimpse and I just kept on plowing his archdruids and played a thalia just to slow him down just in case. I ended up fauna shaman into Linvala and got it equipped to a jitte and that was it.

Boarded in explosives and some paths.

Game 2: Again, no glimpse this game, he just played a bunch of archdruids again and I wasn't able to remove them but I was able to fauna shaman for a linvala before the archdruids lost summoning sickness and he tried to attack me to win. I was able to grow a knight bigger than his elves and was able to make the right blocks with a knight, linvala, thalia, and fauna shaman.

2-4

Was pretty displeased with the spirit guides all day. I never got any in opening hand that actually mattered. Like I would get 2 with no hate cards or I would have hate cards but no spirit guides. They're definately coming out. Maybe I just felt like I got too unlucky but if the format's going to be like this i don't think maverick's the right choice unless you get lucky on your matchups. Perhaps it would be best to max out on thorns and Thalias in order to fight combo properly. Also, I wish I had a couple of Cavern of Souls in the main deck so my Thalias wouldn't be countered against the combo decks. It was a frustrating day to say the least.

[Water_Wizard]

I think Lotus Petal > ESG, but I think Mindbreak Trap is greater than both of those. Mindbreak Trap is probably where you want to be if you are concerned about the combo match up (or play a deck with counterspells ;) ).

[Water_Wizard]

OUT:
4x Mother of Runes
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Scavenging Ooze

IN:
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Harmonic Sliver
2x Parallax Wave (soon to be Peacekeeper)

Does anyone with more experience in this matchup have any suggestions?

I would go:

IN:
2x Peacekeeper
2x Oblivion Ring

OUT:
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Scavenging Ooze

I think you need the Mother of Runes to protect your Peacekeepers and Thalias. Sneak and Show runs Echoing Truth/Submerge/Wipeaway.

If you are facing Wipeaway, a little trick is to give your creature prop blue on your 2nd main, so they must target in response and you'll have a chance to replay. Obviously, this is a situational play and is probably better against TES/ANT.

Since you are running 1 Sylvan Safekeeper and 4 Mothers, it may be proper to cut a Mom. This is definitely a match up where you need to start a clock and leaving a Mother untapped every turn isn't helping.

Surgical extraction is questionable. It could strip a win condition and can also give you valuable information, but it is also does nothing to help against an unfavorable board state. I'm not completely opposed to running it, if I did add 2 SE's, I would probably cut 1 Mom and 1 QP.

Additionally, I'm not sold on bringing in Harmonic Sliver or even running all 3 QPs. While I understand the temptation to blow up a Sneak Attack, this is also a very reactive play. If the Sneak Attack is played with R open, you most likely are facing Annihilator 6 or draw 14. After either of these events happen, it probably doesn't matter if you destroy Sneak Attack. 2 QP's is enough, since you can tutor for them (honestly, 1 is most likely enough unless you are concerned about Blood Moon).

Phyrexian Revoker is probably a better answer to Sneak Attack than QP. Other than the fact you can't find Revoker with GSZ, it serves to shut down all SA's and can name Griselbrand.

I like Scryb Ranger for its mana tricks. And, as from Cairo points out below, and even better reason is to fog a Griselbrand attack.

[Koby]

I think Lotus Petal > ESG, but I think Mindbreak Trap is greater than both of those. Mindbreak Trap is probably where you want to be if you are concerned about the combo match up (or play a deck with counterspells ;) ).

Lotus petal has disynergy with Thalia. ESG doesn't; and provides another body for Fauna Shaman. In which situation would Lotus Petal be better than ESG (aside from providing :w: from time to time)?

[from Cairo]

Surgical extraction is questionable. It could strip a win condition and can also give you valuable information, but it is also does nothing to help against an unfavorable board.

/signed

We have no discard or permission. Sneak & Show tends to board out Intuition in the match up, so often the only way win cons are hitting the yard is after they've done their damage - ie. Show and Tell resolving or a Legend hitting the yard end step after bein' snuck.

Boarding out Ooze and Jitte seems on point, the game is usually decided before either gets out of hand. I'd drop a Plow before QPM or Mother of Runes. QPM even just in Watchwolf mode is some pressure, the ability to nuke Moons and Sneak Attack can be useful. Mother's ok protecting Thalia and Teeg, she can sometimes do work with Scryb Ranger Fogging Griselbrand and w/o the lifelink trigger can occasionally keep the Sneak & Show player from Necroing into more gas.

[Water_Wizard]

Lotus petal has disynergy with Thalia. ESG doesn't; and provides another body for Fauna Shaman. In which situation would Lotus Petal be better than ESG (aside from providing :w: from time to time)?

Exactly because they produce W. Because the stated reason for running mana acceleration was to play a Turn 1 Thalia, Lotus Petal allows us to keep a wider variety of starters than ESG. You can keep a hand with either of the 3 Forests or 4 Wastelands plus a Lotus Petal, where the same hand with ESG is a mulligan.

Because Lotus Petal is for early acceleration, once Thalia is in play, the +1 shouldn't matter as much.

Likewise, I view the pitch advantage of ESG as secondary, as I am going to mull to hate vs. a combo deck. Overall, the benefit of Lotus Petal producing white outweighs ESG's ability to be pitched to Fauna Shaman or act as a 2/2 beater or be casted without paying +1 while Thalia is in play. When you play vs. combo, you look at your starting 7 and you decide if you can drop a hatebear by turn 2, either through natural land drops or acceleration into GSZ. If you happen to have or draw a Fauna Shaman and you happen to draw an ESG (I'm assuming if it was in your opening hand, you used it), than that's a secondary concern vs. a combo deck. Fauna Shaman is usually a 3 drop (assuming you dropped your hatebear turn 2) and active turn 4.

However...


On the sideboard, I wanted to try the spirit guides because a lot of time when you play against combo and they're on the play, they can just kill you before you get your turn two so I wanted to try to land a thorn or Thalia on turn 1. I probably should have done 3 Path and 4 Spirit Guides.

....

Was pretty displeased with the spirit guides all day. I never got any in opening hand that actually mattered. Like I would get 2 with no hate cards or I would have hate cards but no spirit guides. They're definately coming out. Maybe I just felt like I got too unlucky but if the format's going to be like this i don't think maverick's the right choice unless you get lucky on your matchups. Perhaps it would be best to max out on thorns and Thalias in order to fight combo properly. Also, I wish I had a couple of Cavern of Souls in the main deck so my Thalias wouldn't be countered against the combo decks. It was a frustrating day to say the least.

I would run Mindbreak Trap above both of ESG and Lotus Petal.

[menace13]

Exactly because they produce W. Because the stated reason for running mana acceleration was to play a Turn 1 Thalia, Lotus Petal allows us to keep a wider variety of starters than ESG. You can keep Karakas, Plains, or Wasteland.

Because Lotus Petal is for early acceleration, once Thalia is in play, the +1 shouldn't matter as much.

However...
I would run Mindbreak Trap above both of ESG and Lotus Petal.


ESG fills a much larger role than Petal considering overall practicality despite the one factor Petal has going for it with all color mana. 12+ White sources at least in Maverick. Petal would only really be a standout if Teeg is played in 3 or 4's. Small increase for such greater disadvantages later. In this deck white is down to 5/6? cards that are relevant against combo and the drawback of ripping ESG off the top is almost none in contrast to the Petal that cannot swing or carry equipment or allow acceleration under Spheres.

Mindbreak Trap is fine against Storm, But not sure Storm is going to be such a presence that would require 4 in the board which at some point it is probably better to play E. Tutor bullets because they can't discard your bear/ball via E. Tutor if on the play.

SnT and Reanimator do not even trigger Mindbreak Trap.

[menace13]

Exactly because they produce W. Because the stated reason for running mana acceleration was to play a Turn 1 Thalia, Lotus Petal allows us to keep a wider variety of starters than ESG. You can keep Karakas, Plains, or Wasteland.

Because Lotus Petal is for early acceleration, once Thalia is in play, the +1 shouldn't matter as much.

However...
I would run Mindbreak Trap above both of ESG and Lotus Petal.


ESG fills a much larger role than Petal considering overall practicality despite the one factor Petal has going for it with all color mana. 12+ White sources at least in Maverick. Petal would only really be a standout if Teeg is played in 3 or 4's. Small increase for such greater disadvantages later. In this deck white is down to 5/6? cards that are relevant against combo and the drawback of ripping ESG off the top is almost none in contrast to the Petal that cannot swing or carry equipment or allow acceleration under Spheres.

Mindbreak Trap is fine against Storm, But not sure Storm is going to be such a presence that would require 4 in the board which at some point it is probably better to play E. Tutor bullets because they can't discard your bear/ball via E. Tutor if on the play.

SnT and Reanimator do not even trigger Mindbreak Trap.

[Honorik]

Hello guys !

Below is the list I am thinking to take for GP Ghent, here in Europe. It's 4 colors Maverick build, that i am pretty sure most of You don't like, because of the fragile mana base . Also I see that the Punishing version of the deck is not popular right now. But anyway, with this weak mana base open to Wastelands, Price of Progress, Back to basics, blood moon and such I still think this list have a descent match up versus most of the top tiers deck right now - RUG , Show and Tell and Reanimator.

With punishing fires along with the typical 4 swords the RUG match become much more easy. Yes, we loose Thalia and Shaman, but I feel, that many tier 2 matches becomes positive, like combo elves, Affinity, Goblins.

I cannot say that the Show and Tell match is positive, but in my opinion it’s at least 45 – 50 % for us and not below this. The deck have some good card versus them - Pithing Needle for Sneak Attack, Phyrexian Metamorph, 2 red blasts. And all of those together with main deck Knights and Karakas. The 3 Spell Pierce could come game two also.

Thrun, the Last Troll is in the SB mainly for the RUG match. Most of the times when he hits play along with some kind of Equipment it’s game over.

Of course the deck is wide open to non basics hate, this come mainly from Burn decks. Yes, Sneak and Show sometimes play Blood Moon, that could be a huge problem. But, lets hope we have a mana dork in play at that time.



Artifacts

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Creatures

1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Eternal Witness
3 Stoneforge Mystic


Instants

3 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares

Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Legendary Creatures
1 Gaddock Teeg

Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantment

1 Sylvan Library

Basic Lands
1 Forest

Lands
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

Land Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor

Legendary Lands
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Spell pierce
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Stony Silence
1 Rhox War Monk

All kind of comments are welcome !

[Lorenzo767]

Hello guys !
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Spell pierce
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Stony Silence
1 Rhox War Monk

All kind of comments are welcome !

Why you are playing Spell Pierce over Flusterstorm?
Surely P. Fire allow you to have a better MU vs Canadian, but your poor mana base don't make you easy wasted/screwed by their Wastelands and Stifle?

[Honorik]

Why you are playing Spell Pierce over Flusterstorm?
Surely P. Fire allow you to have a better MU vs Canadian, but your poor mana base don't make you easy wasted/screwed by their Wastelands and Stifle?

Spell pierce could have larger application versus different decks, while Flusterstorm deal only with storm combo. Even you can use Pierce vs MUD or Burn.

Yepp, that’s right the mana base is poor and open to Wastelands and Stifle. In my observation stifle is not so common today and most of the times is replace with Spell Pierce.

A single Crucible at the SB is also possible, as a Tutor target in some match ups.

[Water_Wizard]

@ Honorik - singleton Life from the Loam somewhere in the 75?

[Lorenzo767]

Spell pierce could have larger application versus different decks, while Flusterstorm deal only with storm combo. Even you can use Pierce vs MUD or Burn.

Yepp, that’s right the mana base is poor and open to Wastelands and Stifle. In my observation stifle is not so common today and most of the times is replace with Spell Pierce.

A single Crucible at the SB is also possible, as a Tutor target in some match ups.

Yes surely but you already have 2 Red elemental Blast, and Fusterstorm is useful also vs other deck other than Storm, you can use it as a Spell Pierce to counter any Sorcery or Istant, like Miracles,Show and Tell protect your spell from Counter...
But probably this is more a personal choice.

Crucible or Life from the loam i think are necessary in your 75!
Have you ever tested (of course not in you 4color list) Cavern of Souls???
I ask you because most of the people i think are from USA but here in europe the metagame is lightly different. ^_^

[allek]

How are you guys (and girls!) handling the Elves matchup? I find that one close to unwinnable as they rarely combo out later than turn 2-3. Even if they don't always combo all the way to Emrakul -> alpha strike, they usually refill their hand and have 10-15 dorks in play when untapping turn 4.

Ethersworn Canonist is the best answer but they board in artifact hate and have 8-10 tutors for Viridian Shaman etc.

Is this just an autoloss or can it be improved?
Thanks!

[Koby]

Additional spot removal
A quick Jitte
Linvala, Dagger of Elves
Ethersworn Canonist
Mother of runes (pro green attack)
Sword of Feast and Famine

[Water_Wizard]

Elves is tough and something I've struggled with it. The punishing fire version makes it easier. Assuming you are running straight WG, the key is getting an early Jitte active. It's best if you can play, equip, and attack with your Jitte the same turn, so you at least get 2 counters before they can blow it up. Additional Path to Exiles or Gut Shots can help from the board. As you mentioned, Canonist is good. If you can find both Canonist and Jitte, they can only blow one up (and you can protect Canonist with Mother of Runes), but they can bounce Viridian with Wirewood.

A really solid answer is Peacekeeper (which is also solid vs. the Sneak and Show match). If you can drop a Peacekeeper, you may catch them off-guard (unless they run Dismember or Mortapod).

In my experience, it comes down to who draws the best.

[flounce]

Do you guys bring in Choke against sneak and show? Does choke do enough in this match up? What usually comes out against S&S, I'm assuming Ooze.

[Esper3k]

Do you guys bring in Choke against sneak and show? Does choke do enough in this match up? What usually comes out against S&S, I'm assuming Ooze.

I'd say Ooze, a couple StPs, Sylvan Library (since it's pretty slow), PFires. Also depends on how much sideboard stuff you're bringing in.

[from Cairo]

Do you guys bring in Choke against sneak and show? Does choke do enough in this match up? What usually comes out against S&S, I'm assuming Ooze.

I wouldn't bother with Choke versus Sneak and Show. Choke shines against grindy decks that are more reliant on recurring use of their Islands (CBT, UW/Esper Blade, UW Miracles, etc). Sneak and Show unlike the control decks has less need to be tapping out early. Some lists utilize Daze that helps them work around a Choke if it were to land. Their mana base usually only has 5-6 Islands and with their Sol lands, Lotus Petals, and post-board Moons they aren't as effected by Choke as other decks.

I don't think Choke is the worst in the match up, I'm sure it can steal a few games, just that it obviously applies no pressure and there are better forms of disruption. I think 3 mana can usually be put to better use.

[Lorenzo767]

Hi guys!
I was thinking about the Sneak and Show MU, and decided i will try 4x Meddling Mage on my SB, here the reason:
-it's a creature, so we can protect it with Mother of Runes
-it's also a Human so we can cast it by Cavern of Souls (for those who play it) -
it's also a card that isn't useful only vs S&S, but vs any kind of Combo (differently from Phyrexian Revoker/Pithing Needle)
We can easy splash blue for it just adding 1-2 Tropical Island MD, and of course with it would be smart to add to the SB also some Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm.

Any suggest about this way to fight S&S?
Have you ever tested it? I think i will!

[Koby]

Run more Phyrexian Revoker before you run Meddling Mage. The former stops Sneak Attack when it's already deployed (or pre-emptively via Show & Tell), and doesn't strain your manabase to do so. Maverick has a relatively easier time against Show & Tell plans than we do against Sneak Attack. Revoker stops Griselbanned too.

[M@verick]

I have won 6 of my last 7 MU against sneak and show. I play a different version (aether vial) than you all but it seems is kinda better. I run 3 revoker and 3 wayfarer MD. Revoker owns sneak, and can be played with vial in resp to the enchantment or with cavern of souls. Wayfarer is like the karakas 5, 6 and 7 (after knights and the karakas), and it helps to find cavern of souls or maze of ith.

My usually play is trying to resolve vial or wayfarer first turn, and keeping Kotr in hand agaisnt show and tell.

[mini1337s]

I have won 6 of my last 7 MU against sneak and show. I play a different version (aether vial) than you all but it seems is kinda better. I run 3 revoker and 3 wayfarer MD. Revoker owns sneak, and can be played with vial in resp to the enchantment or with cavern of souls. Wayfarer is like the karakas 5, 6 and 7 (after knights and the karakas), and it helps to find cavern of souls or maze of ith.

My usually play is trying to resolve vial or wayfarer first turn, and keeping Kotr in hand agaisnt show and tell.
M@verick, do you mind posting your current list? I would be interested in seeing how your deck has changed to reflect the meta.

[M@verick]

My current list:

4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Savannah
1 Forest (3)
1 Plains (3)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Eternal Witness
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard

3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Choke
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

I Know it isn´t the typical list, but I guess i am skilled with maverick, because i have played all possible versions ands cards since his creation in 2010, with very good results.
I want to comment some cards:

Aether vial: resolving one is winning against RUG tempo. Is also very good against all blue decks, good in mirror and against pox.

Revoker over qasali: its function is similar, being revoker more risky against equipments (thats why I added maze of ith) and agaisnt cards like ensnaring bridge. But it helps to beat hard cards, like jace, liliana, SDT, LED, pernicious deed, sneak attack, grim lavamancer, all elves.... It is also very good in mirror: noble hierarch, qasali, jitte. It can decide when your opponent has resolved 2 or 3 mother of runes...

4 stoneforge mystic: very good in mirror, cuase it is like if we play 5 jittes. It isnt slow, and has a lot sinergy with aether vial. Very good if we want to win UW miracles, because we dont want to play many cratures. A single sword U/R or W/B forces our opponent to play terminus with only one creature.

3 thalias in sideboard: thalia is a GREAT creature. But my decision is only based in testing: I pointed my results after 30 or 40 2/3 competitive games with thalia, and did the same thalia-less. My %wins improved about 10%. In my opinion, thalia is a card that doesnt contribute to the development of the game. Is just a hate card. So i put it in my sb, and i only play it against combo and burn (R or UR) now.

[door]

My current list:

4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Savannah
1 Forest (3)
1 Plains (3)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Eternal Witness
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard

3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Choke
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben



Very interesting. But why birds instead of hierarchs? It doesn't trigger jitte. Also why did you abandon e-tutor in sb?

[M@verick]

Birds instead noble becuase is better with sword equipped (flying).

I left the e-tutor sb when surgical extration got printed, becuase this card is good agaisnt combo too. You can win ANT even from turn 0 if your opponent wants to win fast, extirpating a inferanl tutor. Is also very good agasint the SDT tricks in miracle decks.

[menace13]

My current list:

"List without the best card in the deck."

3 thalias in sideboard: thalia is a GREAT creature. But my decision is only based in testing: I pointed my results after 30 or 40 2/3 competitive games with thalia, and did the same thalia-less. My %wins improved about 10%. In my opinion, thalia is a card that doesnt contribute to the development of the game. Is just a hate card. So i put it in my sb, and i only play it against combo and burn (R or UR) now.

GSZ.
Oh, and Thalia is good, play her.

[M@verick]

I didnt want to post here becuase I imagined this kind of comments


"List without the best card in the deck."

I think I know a bit more than you of the deck ;)

I am not saying to you to play without zenith or thalia. I'm just saying that my version is also valid.

[.:saturno:.]

@maverick:
this is maverick's thread ur list is only a D&T with G splash.
hower why vial is better then zenith?!
why play this list ???

[menace13]

I think I know a bit more than you of the deck ;)
.

No.

[mini1337s]

Thanks for posting that M@verick. It's nice to see other variations on the deck as well, don't mind the criticism.
Have you tried Thalia in the maindeck, or does Revoker fill that role for you? I found it helped my weaker matchups, but at the expense of taxing my Green Suns.

[Philipp2293]

Guys, at least give the guy some respect, as I suppose he's the creator of the deck, no need to be condescending, I guess he has paid close enough attention to the development of the deck and has his reasons to run his build.

That said, I've been running the Vial Maverick list in the post-Survival pre-GSZ meta, and I have found that this particular version has troubles with running out of gas too easily, something that can be easily circumvented with running Zenith. Also, how does the Vial Version compensate for not having access to Teeg/Ooze G1?
Furthermore, no Pridemage seems really weird for me, even if you have Revokers to partially compensate for this.

[.:saturno:.]

the criticism are right if u dont esplain me why ur choice are better then mine! and the all the world player... -.-'

[AlmostGrown]

I'm considering running an E-Tutor sb with 6 slots left for e-tutor targets. Aside from Canonist, COP:RED, what should I play? I all ready have 1 ooze main deck. Should I have a tormod's crypt? And should it be 3 or 4 e-tutors?

[M@verick]

Thanks, Philipp2293

I really dont care about critics. I was heavily criticed when i first played scryb ranger (got many disconecteds in MWS), and when i decided not to play goyf (almost all decks played 4-of).
GSZ is much better card than aether vial, but I see from another perspective... is like playing gobos or merfolks without vial... I have played a lot both version, but now I am playing vial because I get better results in tourneys. Thats all. I dont think vial is better, is just different.

@Philipp2293
- Revoker over qasali: i was afraid at beginning, but I haven´t noticed the qasali absence. Of course with GSZ is better qasali
- Out of gas: Never. The deck has a powerfull draw engine and card advantatge: 3 horizon canopy, 2 sylvan library, 4 stoneforge mystic, 3 wayfarer, 2 eternal witness. Topdecking a vial in late game is horrible, but when you resolves one in turn 1 against any blue deck, black deck or in mirror, you know you are close to winning.
-Gaddock and ooze: I agree with you, we cant look for this powerfull cards, but i try to compensate with the rest of the deck. Depending on meta, I would play 2 or 3 ooze/gaddock instead of witness. But it wouldnt be the same (without GSZ).

[mini1337s]

- Out of gas: Never. The deck has a powerfull draw engine and card advantatge: 3 horizon canopy, 2 sylvan library, 4 stoneforge mystic, 3 wayfarer, 2 eternal witness.


I think that's what people don't get when they are skeptical of your list/running aether vial. Right now, the current trend is to run Canopy as a singleton, mostly as psuedo-Savannah #5, and a lot of people have cut Stoneforge all together.
You seem to have a very powerful draw engine simply by utilizing your deck differently. That being said, do you find your matchups versus combo decks to be weak, atleast G1? Half the reason I love using Thalia and Co. is that I feel like I have a decent chance of beating out combo in game one, and sure up my matchup for G2.

[Water_Wizard]

I'm considering running an E-Tutor sb with 6 slots left for e-tutor targets. Aside from Canonist, COP:RED, what should I play? I all ready have 1 ooze main deck. Should I have a tormod's crypt? And should it be 3 or 4 e-tutors?

lots of decks only run 2 E-Tutors, 3 is the most I would run.

I would run Crypt.
Metamorph is good with all the Show and Tell running around and the probable resurgence of Reanimator after Reid Duke's win last weekend.
Thorn of Amethyst is strong vs. combo and is a non-creature Thalia (survives Infect, Deathmark, etc.), but Thorn may a little redundant with Thalia.
Ensnaring Bridge is solid vs. fattie decks, but I prefer Peacekeeper in that slot.
Oblivion Ring is a good catch all - also good vs. Show and Tell decks and can be used to stop a Jace or Humility.
Serenity is solid vs. MUD, Affinity and Enchantress.
Stony Silence is solid vs. MUD, Affinity, and Combo (stops LED/Lotus Petal/Chrome Mox).
Engineered Explosives is good vs. RUG, Elves, and token decks (Empty the Warrens, etc.).
Compost is solid if you expect to see Pox.

It really depends on what you expect to see, but I think Phyrexian Metamorph, Tormod's Crypt, Oblivion Ring, Ethersworn Canonist, and COP:Red is a good start in the current environment.

[Nutox]

My current list:

4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Savannah
1 Forest (3)
1 Plains (3)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Eternal Witness
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard

3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Choke
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben


Very sexy. Looks like a great list with which to hose RUG Tempo / Sneak Show. Aether Vial looks like the answer we're searching for vs. these two decks (not that RUG needed an answer) WAY beyond moxes/spirit guides. Sure, when the game goes long, GSZ is worth more, but, I don't think those two decks are aiming at the late-game.

Revoker is even more useless than Pridemage vs. RUG, but, oh well. Still blocks Goyf.

And I, for one, fear not casting Surgical on Brainstorms/Ponders, if needs be. Early play like this can drain counters to help Vial resolve. If there was room to board out 7 cards / you didn't board in KGrip.

I would rather sleeve up American Maverick vs. a deck like Stax, but that's not the question.

[xiaocho]

Ur decklist has made me join this forum now x)

I've been thinking about the QPM/Revoker issue all day long.

While QPM naturally is the better beater (Exalted + more toughness) the only matchup where I prefer QPM over Revoker due to their abilities to hate artifacts/enchantments is the one against Enchantress. Even against Affinity u can simply name Cranial Plating making Affinity decks much slower. In most other matchups Revoker does the job just as good as QPM or outclasses it (e.g. against Pernicous Deed, Engineered Explosives, Sneak Attack, ...). The point is most artifacts and enchantments that are currently played require activation costs and therefore Revoker is just as capable or even better than QPM. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the conclusion of my brainstorming.

If I ever get the feeling that I got to improve my matchups against blue controldecks desperately, I'll consider including Vial. But for the time being I'll stick to the grindy Zenith version.

[flounce]

If you make T2 Phyrexian Revoker against Sneak and Show, do you name Grislebrand or Sneak attack?

[Thorondor]

I would name sneak attack, depends if you have karakas/knight in hand. So you can handle emrakul anyway.

[TarmoX]

Ur decklist has made me join this forum now x)

I've been thinking about the QPM/Revoker issue all day long.

While QPM naturally is the better beater (Exalted + more toughness) the only matchup where I prefer QPM over Revoker due to their abilities to hate artifacts/enchantments is the one against Enchantress. Even against Affinity u can simply name Cranial Plating making Affinity decks much slower. In most other matchups Revoker does the job just as good as QPM or outclasses it (e.g. against Pernicous Deed, Engineered Explosives, Sneak Attack, ...). The point is most artifacts and enchantments that are currently played require activation costs and therefore Revoker is just as capable or even better than QPM. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the conclusion of my brainstorming.

If I ever get the feeling that I got to improve my matchups against blue controldecks desperately, I'll consider including Vial. But for the time being I'll stick to the grindy Zenith version.


Pridemage destroy definitely a menace <=> Revoker deals well against activated ability of permanents but.........can be removed!!!

[Hof]

My current list:

4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Savannah
1 Forest (3)
1 Plains (3)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Eternal Witness
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard

3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Choke
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Good to see an "old school" Maverick list again.

It's true that Vial is gamebreaking against Ugr Threshold and blue decks in general, but at the cost of some consistency. GSZ improves consistency so much - it's the green Brainstorm, as I am sure you are aware. Do you think it would be possible to play a combination of Vials and GSZ? It's not like the deck are that different, I think. I am thinking 3 Vials + 2 GSZ. That way you could still play singleton bombs like Ooze maindeck, still have a decent chance of seeing Vial early , but not double Vial, and the two cards don't get in the way of each other much, I think. Just an idea.

[Esper3k]

Ur decklist has made me join this forum now x)

I've been thinking about the QPM/Revoker issue all day long.

While QPM naturally is the better beater (Exalted + more toughness) the only matchup where I prefer QPM over Revoker due to their abilities to hate artifacts/enchantments is the one against Enchantress. Even against Affinity u can simply name Cranial Plating making Affinity decks much slower. In most other matchups Revoker does the job just as good as QPM or outclasses it (e.g. against Pernicous Deed, Engineered Explosives, Sneak Attack, ...). The point is most artifacts and enchantments that are currently played require activation costs and therefore Revoker is just as capable or even better than QPM. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the conclusion of my brainstorming.

If I ever get the feeling that I got to improve my matchups against blue controldecks desperately, I'll consider including Vial. But for the time being I'll stick to the grindy Zenith version.

Pridemage is also better at dealing with equipment and enchantments like Blood Moon (which shut off Karakas).

On top of that, a big selling point to it in Maverick is that it's tutorable via Green Sun's Zenith.

[.:saturno:.]

if ur problem are counter, run 2/4 cavern of soul.
if ur problem are pernicius/etc.. removal run 1 or more phyrexian revoker searchable by fauna shaman...
but dont waste GW maverick list in this way!

[bartmanqc]

http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MAG_M13/8JNN9dVmT5mUNF5FTeYkrSz8msZ.jpg

This might be sick...

[Koby]

Might be reason enough to play with Spike Feeder / Spike Weaver now :P

And yes, this guy is better than Elspeth in so many ways.

[Julian23]

I love the cmc of 2 as it makes this guy come down on turn2 most of the time. He however trails Elspeth when it comes to protecting himself.

[defector]

That is a very different perspective on Maverick. I like how it really abuses KotR. I can't convince myself to run it in Atlanta, but I can't discount it either. Good luck with that direction. I think one of the things with Mav is that the core 16 cards or so are just so strong that you can flex a lot of the rest of the slots. Also, props for dropping Dryad Arbor, I've cut mine as well, he just doesn't make as much sense as he used to. Anyway, good luck with the design, I'm calling Mav officially forked:)

[Esper3k]

He's a lot more aggressive than Elspeth. Dropping him and having your KoTR be able to swing for evasive lethal immediately is pretty nuts.

Also, being able to play him under Teeg is just another nice little bonus.

[Tacosnape]

This guy is bonkers. He works under Teeg. He's a monster in the mirror. He's just a house, period. Maverick will adjust to run this guy.

[Humphrey]

Elspeth is better in so much ways, exept its not playable with Teeg

(+1)+1+1 counter vs (+1) 1/1 token
swarming helps much more than 1 big guy, it chumps and defends the walker on his own

(-3)Doublestrike and Flying vs (+1)+3+3 and Flying
Pay that much Loyalty for that effect is bad. How often do you have a creature with power >3 anyway?

Ultimate
Both are fine, Elspeth usually won the game before getting it off.

[Koby]

Elspeth has been shaved in recent lists because she's too slow. This falls in a good spot on the curve and provides the most relevant portions that Elspeth provided - evasion. It gives an insane boost at that. I would play Ajani more like Liliana of the Veil is played - burst advantage, rather than grindy card advantage.

[Esper3k]

Yeah, you pop Ajani on a 5/5 Knight holding a SoFI and you're talking lethal damage that turn.

While I'm not certain Maverick would be the most optimal deck to use Ajani in (I think he'd be better in something more aggressive), even here we can see the potential applications.

[KevinTrudeau]

Dope list, M@verick; incredibly fun to play, and Wayfarer is an absolute house now that Cavern of Souls has seen print. To all of the dissenters, I can vouch for M@verick's level of skill— he is one talented ass motherfucker. I can't remember just how many awesome matches I had with him back in 2010 on MWS playing NLT vs. his early Maverick lists, but there were a lot. So yeah, some things about it are certainly questionable, and I'm sure his list isn't 100% optimal, but have an open mind and realize that certain cards don't necessarily coincide with the goals that that list in particular wants to achieve. He knows what he's doing for the most part.

Actually, feel free to not have an open mind concerning some random dude's shitty Maverick list, just give M@verick the benefit of the doubt.

[Kyle]

After playing against M@verick on MWS I have to say that the Aether Vial, D&T style Maverick beats the tar out of a stock GSZ Maverick, PF Mav, Bant Mav, and RUG Thresh.

It could be (likely) that I'm a bad player, but the Aether Vial Mav is remarkably consistent.

[learntolove6]

hey folks, i have learned that this deck has a shit match-up against decks that play terminus (primarily UW miracles and miracle blade, which is strange because traditionally stoneblade is a great match-up). teeg is very good against terminus, but they just plow him before they wipethe board. what are other ways to fight this?

[mishima_kazuya]

Lost in top 4 of a 48 person the Doylestown, PA GPT with Maverick splashing 3 Spell Pierces in SB.

Didn't lost a match until I lost to 12post (deck actually looks legit)

Tournament report to come after I play tomorrow's Legacy tournament at Too Many Games' gaming convention.

[AlmostGrown]

Lost in top 4 of a 48 person the Doylestown, PA GPT with Maverick splashing 3 Spell Pierces in SB.

Didn't lost a match until I lost to 12post (deck actually looks legit)

Tournament report to come after I play tomorrow's Legacy tournament at Too Many Games' gaming convention.

Please post your deck list as well!

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

@Ajani, like in the deck, I don't think he's better than elspeth (Elspeth will actively build a board state, ajani needs a dude) but he seems good for what the deck needs right now.

hey folks, i have learned that this deck has a shit match-up against decks that play terminus (primarily UW miracles and miracle blade, which is strange because traditionally stoneblade is a great match-up). teeg is very good against terminus, but they just plow him before they wipethe board. what are other ways to fight this?

Mother of runes, Thalia, and Elspeth tend to help. The matchup is rough though, not bad, but it's not easy.

[mishima_kazuya]

Saturday:
48 person GPT at Doylestown, PA

/ Lands
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
3 [U] Savannah
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [PT] Forest (3)
1 [IN] Plains (1)
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
2 [A] Tropical Island
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

// Creatures
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
2 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
1 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
1 [M11] Fauna Shaman
1 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker

// Spells
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [CFX] Path to Exile
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [DK] Maze of Ith
SB: 1 [ROE] Linvala, Keeper of Silence
SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 [ISD] Purify the Grave
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 1 [LG] Sylvan Library

Notes: Ran a Library in the SB since I couldn't get another Linvala for the SB.

4-0-2 the swiss, beating RUG Delver, Mono White Death and Taxes, MUD and Reanimator.

I beat the same Reanimator player in the quarterfinals. Spell Pierce was pretty useful against Reanimator, even though I won both matches without it.
Then I lost in top 4 to 12post. I lost game 1 by punting a combat phase against 3 Primeval Titans (had Aven Mindcensor in play so I was not completely dead there). In game 2 I had a Thalia and 2 Oozes in play against his board of Forest, Cloudpost, Cloudpost, and Pithing Needle that named Wasteland. I Green Sun'ed for Qasali Pridemage even though I did not have a Wasteland in hand. Obviously I got punished by his Green Sun for Primeval Titan.
The tutor for Pridemage plan was absolutely awful as I still had to draw a Wasteland and I was dead to Crucible of Worlds or Primeval Titan even if I did draw Wasteland. I should have Green Sun'd for Gaddock Teeg as his body language looked like he needed a second green source.

So I cut the dead Library from the SB for an Aven Mindcensor and got ready for Sunday.


Sunday:
Decklist: Same as above, except -1 Sylvan Library for +1 Aven Mindcensor.

Only 20 players showed up, but the TO was nice enough to stick with the 10 dual land prize pool.

Round 1: Beat Mono blue energy field control.
Round 2: Beat Dredge.
Round 3: Drew with Affinity.
Round 4: Lost to Aggro-Loam.
Round 5: Beat Doomsday Storm.
Quarterfinals: Punt the mirror and scrub out.

Spell Pierce and the extra Mindcensor was obviously pretty insane against Storm.

I made the mistake of only siding in 1 Spell Pierce for the mirror as he was siding in extra planeswalkers. There was also a situation where I got a Jitte out early game 3 and if I had a Spell Pierce to protect my creatures from removal I would've gotten Jitte going before he destroyed it.

75 Probably needs a Garruk Relentless if Maverick and RUG remain 50% of the metagame.

[Tammit67]

Spell Pierce and the extra Mindcensor was obviously pretty insane against Storm.



Congrats on your finishes!

[mishima_kazuya]

Congrats on your finishes!

Thanks!

Obviously beat Matt playing for top 8 in last round, :dagger:

[AlmostGrown]

What are your thoughts on Gaea's Cradle?

[Humphrey]

Actually I dont like it. Its wasteable, its useless without creatures, cant sac to knight..
I prefer Forest or Fetchland

Sometimes is very good, especially with Ooze or Equipment, but I dont think its worth it.

And its an to expensive card for its uses, maybe that matters too.

[kiwi]

Another great advantage of phyrexian revoker over qasali pridemage is that phyrexian is very good against planeswalkers and creatures like grim lavamancer, scavenging ooze, fauna shamman, etc...

[maktus]

Another great advantage of phyrexian revoker over qasali pridemage is that phyrexian is very good against planeswalkers and creatures like grim lavamancer, scavenging ooze, fauna shamman, etc...

But linvala is good aganst all.

[Ayiluss]

Against Planeswalkers not, against creatures is better imo.

[AlmostGrown]

Planeswalkers are pretty niche in my opinion, less than half of the field plays 1+ in the main deck, and in cases like the mirror there are only 1-2, so I'd rather have revoker sb and linvala main.

[mishima_kazuya]

Linvala and Phyrexian Revoker both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I think Revoker is safer as a MB card as it costs only 2 and can stop non-creature strategies. The most relevant cards, IMO, that Revoker gets but Linvala can't are Lion's Eye Diamond and Sneak Attack.

Gaea's Cradle: I've actually never played it, but I'd imagine it works really well with GSZ, Scavenging Ooze and moving around equipment. However, it makes the deck mulligan more just a bit more. It also opens the deck up to insane blow outs, like overextending to get more mana out of Cradle.

[Ignithas_]

The Vial list looks pretty cool. As a DnT player I wonder why you didn't include Flickerwisp, as the synergy with the Vial is huge.

[Water_Wizard]

Cradle is probably more optimal with the SFM package and 3 cc equipments (because you can tutor, play, and equip on the same turn). As mentioned previously, it is also good with Scavenging Ooze. Personally, I always run 1 in my list because I think the benefits outweigh the costs. Sure, it is Wastelandable, but so are most of the lands in the deck. It is worthless without creatures and this is Cradle's biggest drawback. However, Cradle makes for some explosive starts and allows quick ramping with a Knight in play.

[1mpulse]

Hello. I came in 5th at the Legacy Open this weekend with GW.

4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Sylvan Library

4 Green Sun’s Zenith

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea’s Cradle


3 Path to Exile
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker (Star City has this listed as Phyrexian Metamorphs)
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog

A tournament report can be found here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24054-5th-at-SCG-Indy-Legacy-Open-with-GW-on-6-17-12&p=651156#post651156), for anyone who is interested.

[AlmostGrown]

Why didn't you go for 3 Hierarch/1 BoP if you were on the Sword of ___ and ___ plan?

[Koby]

Why didn't you go for 3 Hierarch/1 BoP if you were on the Sword of ___ and ___ plan?

Most of the time that requires being lucky and seeing the BOP naturally, or more realistically GSZ for it. How often are you going to go for a BOP over Hierarch with an attacker already on board?

Another angle to look at: Sword of X & Y provide protection to evade blockers. Flying isn't really necessary under this condition.

[1mpulse]

Most of the time that requires being lucky and seeing the BOP naturally, or more realistically GSZ for it. How often are you going to go for a BOP over Hierarch with an attacker already on board?

Another angle to look at: Sword of X & Y provide protection to evade blockers. Flying isn't really necessary under this condition.

Exactly. The creature equiped with a Sword plus at least one Exalted trigger is probably bigger than anything they have anyways. I have not found one Birds to be relevant, as like Koby said, I have to draw it, and I don't want to GSZ for 1, ever.

[kiwi]

I did top 8 in the last legacy magic league master.

My deck list was a copy paste from M@verick decklist (version with vials).

Pairings:

2-1 vs threshold
2-0 vs monoblue painters
2-1 vs pox con liananas, the abyss, etc
1-2 vs bug
2-0 threshold

top 8
0-2 vs threshold.

I had bad luck in the top 8 because after testing a lot I think that show and tell is one of our best pairings and both finalist played show and tell on other hand if you play aether vial ugr threshold isn't a bad pairing.

At the beginning I dind't like wayfarer but now I love it, its very good, giving you karakas vs show and tell and reanimator, the speed of gaeas cradle or horizon canopies for extra draws against control decks, pox decks, etc.

IMO by far is more broken Aether vial vs blue than green suns zenith.

I only think that is better the another version in a metagame with storm, but now few people play storm.

[mishima_kazuya]

Sure adding Aether Vial improves the blue match up. But with decent play you can probably beat most blue decks with Maverick. Like against UW miracles you just want to stick a Teeg and protect it. Or resolve a planeswalker against UW.

[ryscott85]

Hello. I came in 5th at the Legacy Open this weekend with GW.

4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Sylvan Library

4 Green Sun’s Zenith

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea’s Cradle


3 Path to Exile
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker (Star City has this listed as Phyrexian Metamorphs)
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog

A tournament report can be found here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24054-5th-at-SCG-Indy-Legacy-Open-with-GW-on-6-17-12&p=651156#post651156), for anyone who is interested.

Hey Man! I followed some of the action online. Congrats on your top 8 finish! I just wanted to ask you a few questions:

How was Thrun? Do you think elspeth would have served better in that slot?
Do you think sword of body and mind(protection) or feast or famine(untap) could be more practicle then fire and ice?
Did you like stoneforge over the two fauna shaman that people are using instead in that slot?
What are your thoughts of a one of sylvan safe keeper?
Was Cradle necessary?
Did you feel having a singleton Aven Mindcensor would have helped main?

Finally, what changes (if any) would you have made if you could play in the tournament again?

Thanks!

[AlmostGrown]

I have some questions for GP Atlanta. Should I play an E Tutor sb? Is Fauna Shaman worth playing without Loyal Retainers? What's the verdict on Cradle - I'm seeing conflicting views!