[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[tonedown]

I said good.

Of course, Safekeeper is awesome.

[conley1000000]

Havent seen a whole lot of talk about the Familiar? Seems to me he gives the deck a different angle on fighting some things. Is anyone going to seriously test with him? I'm going to try him out in preperation for SCG Cincy in a few weeks, kinda interested to see some other view points on how testing went with him...

[Koby]

He might be well suited for this type of deck. I'm waiting on seeing everything from Ravnica before making tweaks/changes. There should be a lot of new toys to work with.

[that0neguy]

I tested Judge a little bit a few days after it was released. I really liked it. Turn 1 Judge, T2 Thalia made it very difficult for them to asnwer any threat I dropped on subsequent turns.

The number of 1 drops sometimes seemed a bit awkward, especially hands with Mom and Judge since you would kinda flood out on ways to protect threats, without nessacarilly having threats.

The flying was nice with Exalted. I could stall out the board against most creature decks and fly over, even without a jitte, it was a pretty decent clock. This plan also kinda opens you up big to a terminus.

That was a pretty small sample size though. Mostly against RUG, Miracles, and Merfolk.

I also did not run any Dryad Militants, I used the list I posted above.

[conley1000000]

He might be well suited for this type of deck. I'm waiting on seeing everything from Ravnica before making tweaks/changes. There should be a lot of new toys to work with.

Yeah, too bad the GW mythic is terrible...I wanted to start testing as soon as possible with only 4 weeks until SCG Cincy, wish the spoilers came faster, but oh well.


I tested Judge a little bit a few days after it was released. I really liked it. Turn 1 Judge, T2 Thalia made it very difficult for them to asnwer any threat I dropped on subsequent turns.

The number of 1 drops sometimes seemed a bit awkward, especially hands with Mom and Judge since you would kinda flood out on ways to protect threats, without nessacarilly having threats.

The flying was nice with Exalted. I could stall out the board against most creature decks and fly over, even without a jitte, it was a pretty decent clock. This plan also kinda opens you up big to a terminus.

That was a pretty small sample size though. Mostly against RUG, Miracles, and Merfolk.

I also did not run any Dryad Militants, I used the list I posted above.

I'm still trying to put a list together that uses him not as a center piece but more than just a utility card. I'm going to start out with 3 and see where it goes from there. My hope is that he helps enough main to open a few more spots in the sb for cards that can be more help with critter heavy decks so they can interchange quite easy...
As far as Dryad Militant goes I'm not really a fan of his. I like what he does dont get me wrong, but he's just not something I feel is needed. I like Scooze much better as the graveyard hater.

[kai_nsane]

Hey Guys,

I'd like to know your opinion about my sideboard. In the Metagame are many aggro Decks like Gobbos, Deadguy Ale and Maverick. Different kinds of Storm Decks, ANT, TES or High Tide. Some Gravebased Decks like Dredge and Reanimator. Also there are some Miracle decks.

My Deck and Sidebord:

25 Creatures
4x Mother of Runes
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierach
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Fauna Shaman

12 Spells:
4x Green Suns Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Umezawas Jitte
2x Sylvan Library

23 Lands:
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Savannah
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Maze of Ith
1x Plains
2x Forest
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Karakas

Sideboard:
1x Dualing Grounds (Gobbos, maybe Dredge)
2x Krosan Grip (Miracle, Equip)
1x Linvala (Mirror, maybe Krenko)
1x Bojuka Bog (Dredge, Reanimator)
1x Crop Rotation (Dredge-Bojuka Bog, Karakas for Teeg protection against Miracle, Maze of Ith search when Dueling Grounds is on the board)
1x Phyrexian Revoker (Planeswalker, Senseis Diving Top, maybe Artifact Mana)
1x Engineered Explosives (tokes - Gobbo, Dredge Miracle) I'm not sure with this Choice.
2x Tormods Crypt (Dredge, Reanimator)
1x Ethersworn Canonist (Storm)
1x Life from the Loam (I like it with Sylvan Library, maybe its good against random Delver or Lands Decks)
2x Enlightened Tutor (Tollbox)
1x Faerie Macabre (Dredge, Reanimator)

I think the Sideboard is with the Enlightened Tutor very flexible. Also there are a Creature Toolbox for the Fauna Shaman. I'm not sure, if an Planeswalker (Elspeth), a Sylvan Safekeeper or a Ulvenwald Tracker make the Deck or SB better.

Tell me your opinion and improvement, please.

[Koby]

Not a big fan of Krosan Grip vs Miracle. They play multiple Tops and generally don't keep Counterbalance in. You can always side-step CB lock with an extra juiced GSZ for Pridemage. Will you be board Krosan Grip in the mirror or against Vial decks? (unlikely - more removal is usually better)

Against Miracles, you really want to just nail a Gaddock Teeg with some sort of protection. Their only real plan of beating you at that point is chaining StP or boarding in some tertiary sweeper like Pyroclasm or Perish - neither of which is common for Miracles. I think a second Gaddock Teeg in the SB will help both your combo and Miracle/control matchup better.

I think you may want to swap the numbers on Faerie Macabre and Tormod's Crypt. One Crypt is enough with the tutor package, and you can still grab Faeries with Fauna Shaman. Faerie macabre is better against Dredge too, in that it can prevent a Turn 0 ridiculousness before you even get a chance to make any actions. It's also good against Reanimator, but they typically switch to Show & Tell in these matchups.

Your sideboard looks like its going to hurt against Control, since you now have very little elements to continue punishing them for not having a clock. Choke, Armageddon, Tsunami, and Thorn of Amethysts are all good choices against Miracle/BUG control decks. Even a Thrun the Last Troll helps to stop the endless targeted removal they seem to have.

Good luck!

[kai_nsane]

Thank you for your fast answer :)!

I thought Krosan Grip is awesome, because it cant be countered. But probably you are allright, that a 2nd Teeg (Maybe with a Sylvan Safekeeper) is much better then Krosan Grip. Krosan Grip is just good against Humility and Moat. I think against Vial (Gobbos) are the Pridemages enough and against the Mirror would board Linvala and Bojuka Bog-Crop Rota.

The swap of Faerie and Crypt is very good. I do it.

I can cut the EE against a Choke (Enlightened tutorable) and cut the Krosan Grip against a Teeg (Miracle, Storm) and a Oblivion Ring(Enlightened tutorable). Then it looks like:

1x Dualing Grounds (Gobbos, maybe Dredge)
1x Oblivion Ring (tutorable Removal)
1x Gaddock Teeg (Combo, Miracle)
1x Linvala (Mirror, maybe Krenko)
1x Bojuka Bog (Dredge, Reanimator)
1x Crop Rotation (Dredge-Bojuka Bog, Karakas for Teeg protection against Miracle, Maze of Ith search when Dueling Grounds is on the board)
1x Phyrexian Revoker (Planeswalker, Senseis Diving Top, maybe Artifact Mana)
1x Choke (Control)
1x Tormods Crypt (Dredge, Reanimator)
1x Ethersworn Canonist (Storm)
1x Life from the Loam (I like it with Sylvan Library, maybe its good against random Delver or Lands Decks)
2x Enlightened Tutor (Toolbox)
2x Faerie Macabre (Dredge, Reanimator)

What do you say? Are the changes okay, or they still room for improvement?

Thank you

[lambert101]

I'm thinking about going back to three stoneforge with sword of war and peace, sword of feast and famine, and jitte.

[Koby]

I wouldn't recommend trying to use Enlightened Tutor to get Choke. That usually doesn't work out the way you intend it to, and you're wasting time and resources to do it.

[Esper3k]

I actually like Grip against them because killing Top / Humility is so important. It also makes it more difficult for them to use Top/CB since they have to constantly float a 3 on top to deal with Grip, which of course you can play around.

As Koby said, eTutoring for Choke is generally a bad idea against decks that run countermagic since you eTutor it up, then they counter it and you're down a card + mana. The only time I'll ever eTutor for Choke (or really bring in eTutor at all) is against decks where you absolutely have to quickly find an answer or die, ie combo.

[lambert101]

Quick recap of a small local tourney at Mythic Games in Elmira New York.
I ended up making top 16. Everything in list is abbrevated.

List:
4 Noble
4 MoM
4 Knight
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia
2 Pridemage
4 Swords
4 GSZ
2 S. Library
2 Jitte
2 Ooze
1 Teeg
1 Rafiq
1 Sagarda

4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
4 Windswept
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Cradle
1 Maze
1 Arbor
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Canopy
2 G Fetchs
1 Karakas

Now your are reading this and being like wtf...Rafiq and Sagarda?
Let me tell you this. It works. Rafiq and Sagarda break mirrrors, give fast clocks, and become must answered threats on top of knights. If you have a MoM and Scryv out when one of them hit the table you are more than likely going to win. Just wanted to hear other peoples' ideas on Mav.

[TheXile]

Quick recap of a small local tourney at Mythic Games in Elmira New York.
I ended up making top 16. Everything in list is abbrevated.

List:
4 Noble
4 MoM
4 Knight
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia
2 Pridemage
4 Swords
4 GSZ
2 S. Library
2 Jitte
2 Ooze
1 Teeg
1 Rafiq
1 Sagarda

4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
4 Windswept
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Cradle
1 Maze
1 Arbor
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Canopy
2 G Fetchs
1 Karakas

Now your are reading this and being like wtf...Rafiq and Sagarda?
Let me tell you this. It works. Rafiq and Sagarda break mirrrors, give fast clocks, and become must answered threats on top of knights. If you have a MoM and Scryv out when one of them hit the table you are more than likely going to win. Just wanted to hear other peoples' ideas on Mav.

Might I suggest Rhox War monk instead of Rafiq? I've found the lifelink to be really helpful in grindy games and the fact that he beats a threshed mongoose/ flipped delver and lives and often walls tarmogoyf (land/sorc/instant in the yard)...I understand rafiq does give you a powerful presence, but having 3 toughness in legacy is very unfortunate.

[Fatal]

Rafiq is very poor in mirror since Karakas can bounce it away.

[lambert101]

You have wasteland and your own Karakas. Playing Rafiq won me games out of nowhere. I understand how Fauna Shaman is good but every time I played her it felt too slow. Sagarda and Rafiq were nuts.

[Lorenzo767]

I was thinking about which one is actually better between Choke and Armageddon:

Armageddon: simmetric spell, CC4 so we can't cast it with Gaddock Teeg in play, we can use it also vs Non-U-based deck, it make KotR bigger...

Choke: asimmetric effect, CC3, a lot of list are builded with 1/3 Glacial Fortress to avoid choke, can be destroyed leaving the opponent with all his land to untap, usable only vs U-Based..

What are your thoughts about this Sideboard choice???

[Fatal]

You have wasteland and your own Karakas. Playing Rafiq won me games out of nowhere. I understand how Fauna Shaman is good but every time I played her it felt too slow. Sagarda and Rafiq were nuts.

Main problem in mirror is to break MoR stalling - Sagarda or Rafiq don't help here. I would rather use Terravore with Rafiq backup rather than Sagarda, since it can trample over protected chumps, it also depends on both graveyards.

I played quite a long with Rafiq backup to have much faster clock under GSZ, but I found its not so great having X/3 in 4cmc slot - Elspeth is much better almost always.


Armaggedon require advantage on table or loam engine to rebuild mana base, Choke doesn't. As you said there is a way to avoid chokes - so simply think which card would be fitting to your local meta. Armaggedon can be very good vs Nic Fit along with loam.

[Megadeus]

As a Nic Fit player who lurks here, Armageddon is really really good vs me. I saw it in my Mvaerick Opponents hand G2 last week. I HAD to Cabal Therapy it.

[Fatal]

The way how Nic Fit beats Maverick is very simple Sculpt hand, and blow with Deed the rest.

Maverick player should use advantage with pridemage (which can protect blowing deed for 2-3 in early turns) and get advantage with sylvan library to save best topdecks from sculpting for example Armaggedon. (you can use also ravages of war to avoid same names).

Second route is to needle deed with fast beatdown.

[Lorenzo767]

Is anyone here testing Judge's Familiar??

What you think about Deathrite Shaman? I don't think it will find a lot of play in maverick. It's a cards that do a lots of things but no one perfectly, and we already have Scavenging Ooze that is great at eating GY and Noble Hierarch as mana dorks.
What's your thoughts?

[Esper3k]

I haven't been testing either.

I agree that Deathrite Shaman probably won't have much of a place in Maverick. We actually like having the Exalted on the Nobles to boost Thalia/Pridemages and as you pointed out, we already play Scavenging Ooze to deal with graveyards / gain life.

[TheXile]

I haven't been testing either.

I agree that Deathrite Shaman probably won't have much of a place in Maverick. We actually like having the Exalted on the Nobles to boost Thalia/Pridemages and as you pointed out, we already play Scavenging Ooze to deal with graveyards / gain life.

I will be testing the deathrite as a 1 of (-1 noble heirarch for it). I like how it can be a noble (and reduce my opponents yard), it can be a pseudo grim lavamancer and a psuedo scavenging ooze. I love the idea of using him against RUG, but maybe he's only a sideboard option. I'd also consider splashing 1x Bayou ..to let me use his second ability.

[conley1000000]

I did some testing with the judge, as a 3 of main, shaving a few things but mostly keeping the core of the deck going. He did ok. Not jump off the table in your face good, but not really as dependable as I would have liked. I really tested the show and tell matches, specifically the omni build, where I was hoping he'd shine. But just waiting an extra turn and using SOL lands he didnt do as good standing alone. He was decent when he had thalia/wasteland as back up, but thats not really the type of card I'm looking for right now...

[lambert101]

Brewing and testing done with RtR cards:

Main:
2 Cavern of souls
2 Forest
1plains
4 windswept heath
4 Savannah
4 wasteland
1karakas
1 maze of MTV
1 g. Cradle
1 arbor
1green fetch
1 H. Canopy

3 Thalia
2 pridemage
2 scavenging ooze
2 dryad militant
1 rafiq
1 sagarda
1 srcyb ranger
4 nobles
4 mom
4 knight
1 teeg

4 gsz
4 swords to plow
2 jitte
2 Sylvan library

Side:
2 canonist
2 armageddon
2 o-ring
2RIP
1 karakas
1 bog
1 teeg
1 crop rotation
1 linvala
1 giddeon
1 elspeth

Still am loving the rafiq and sagarda clock and stalemate breaker.

[kai_nsane]

What means "RIP"?

[lambert101]

RIP= Rest in Peace

That card is amazing against dredge, RUG, and snapcaster.

My reasoning for RUG is something I saw with my friend playing Death and Taxes against RUG. Jouthn Grunts destroys threshold and goyf. Rest in peace is very similar but has a better chance of getting spell pierce of stifled when it enters. Even though that may happen, if it sticks and you can deal with delver you should win.

[HoneyT]

RIP= Rest in Peace

That card is amazing against dredge, RUG, and snapcaster.

My reasoning for RUG is something I saw with my friend playing Death and Taxes against RUG. Jouthn Grunts destroys threshold and goyf. Rest in peace is very similar but has a better chance of getting spell pierce of stifled when it enters. Even though that may happen, if it sticks and you can deal with delver you should win.

And if you can't you're just going to lose because you stand no chance of racing. You just turned our best creature into a permanent 2/2. Don't get me wrong it's a great card. One of the most potent graveyard hate cards ever printed for that matter. This isn't the shell for it though. Death and Taxes or some Enlightened Tutor control deck, sure. Not one that uses it's own graveyard as it's clock though.

[lambert101]

Fair enough....might have to switch that back to two t.crypts.

[Philipp2293]

Also, only 4 spot removals in your 75 is really on the low side, chances are RUG will simpy have one more Delver than you have removal. Also, with that configuration I wouldn't be too happy about the Mirror and Goblins.

This weekend I finished a disapointing 4-3 drop in a 450 man tournament. I geared my deck towards having a even to favourable MU against the big 4 (Esperblade, Miracles, RUG, Maverick), and, after scouting during the first round (had a bye due to winning a trial) I was feeling pretty confident cause the overall meta matched my expectations, especially LOTS of RUG decks, with only very little randomness thrown in.

Yet in the 6 rounds I played I faced Miracles, 4 Combo Decks and Burn. :(

Round 1 Bye
Round 2 Miracles 1-2
Round 3 Sneak Attack 0-2
Round 4 Sneak Attack 2-0
Round 5 Hive Mind 2-0
Round 6 Elf Combo 0-2 (Punted game 1)
Round 7 Burn 2-1
Drop

Also, for the guys who are looking for clocks/mirror breakers, in the trial against junk I was reminded how scary Terravore actually is. Like, "Hi, dou you know my 16/16 trample dude?". So if you expect a lot of Mirrors and grindy Midrange MUs like Junk or maybe even Nic Fit you might want to try it.

[sdematt]

Yeah, unfortunately Junk does turn into the "blow up absolutely everything" deck post-board against Maverick, making it not fun for anyone.

-Matt

[Maverick777]

Maverick
So I have been playing maverick for going on a year now. I play at mythic games in Elmira and I play at the NELC in Binghamton every month. I have been playing around with the deck because in all honesty I am
Not a huge fan of the traditional build. I have been getting dramatically better results since I added a few new cards. In the past few months and even prior sneak and show has become more prevalent. And with the addition of omniscience the decks popularity is becoming a bit overwhelming for decks like maverick. RUG is still a very big threat as well so my changes are I added creatures to the deck that are not traditional but in the current meta are very relevant. I added Sigarda host of herons and rafiq if the many. Now I have got alot of heat from people because of these creatures but lets take a look at the match ups it helps in. I have faced sneak show more times than I can count and most recently at NELC. I faced it three times and I went 3-0 against the deck. That is not because they are bad players no. It's because I provide a higher threat density with those two cards with teeg out they are forced to show and tell in a sneak attack which I then put a Sigarda in and there whole plan turns to shit. And with rafiq combined with terravore or Sigarda it's a very quick win if they don't have an answer. Against rug delver the combination is alright rafiq can be bounced with karakas so he can block goyph all day and Sigarda if resolved you should never lose the match up. In the mirror it's obviously going to favor you you can get in for damage that eventually cannot be prevented. The thing I like about maverick is you can ramp very early and with cradle it makes it very easy to grab up big fatties like Sigarda and rafiq! Maverick has so many options to be more than just a weenie deck with the same creatures over and over and by switching to creatures like this it forces your opponents to do something or lose. I will
Be posting my full list soon! Please feel
Free to comment!

[Maverick777]

My list is this
2 forest
2 plains
4 windswept Heath
2 wooded foothills
4 savannah
1 maze of ith
1 karakas
2 cavern of souls
1 dryad arbor
4 wasteland
1 gaeas cradle


4 knight Of the reliquary
4 noble Hierarch
4 mother of runes
1 aven Mindcensor
1 scryb ranger
1 scavenging ooze
1 Sigarda host of herons
1 rafiq of the many
1 gaddock teeg
2 qasali pridemage
1 terravore
3 Thalia guardian I Thraban

4 green suns zenith
4 swords to plowshares
2 sylvan library
2 unezawas jitte


The sideboard varies and I do not have one built at the moment comments please?

[kingtk3]

It seems a standard list with Sigarda Terravore and Rafiq in the flex spots: i like them, especially the Terravore. One thing I don't like is Mindcensor or other non green 1x in lists without Fauna Shaman.

[Maverick777]

a lot of people have told me they don't like Mindcensor it has won me many many games. I like to list the way it is there seems to be. Card I would like I try out though I can't remember the name of it but its a 5 drop 5/5 that has the ability hurricane in it that may replace the censor to get rid of those pesky delers:) I personally don't like fauna shaman I think it takes away from what the deck is trying to do and that it is way to slow of a
Card.

[Barbed Blightning]

a lot of people have told me they don't like Mindcensor it has won me many many games. I like to list the way it is there seems to be. Card I would like I try out though I can't remember the name of it but its a 5 drop 5/5 that has the ability hurricane in it that may replace the censor to get rid of those pesky delers:) I personally don't like fauna shaman I think it takes away from what the deck is trying to do and that it is way to slow of a
Card.

Arashi (http://magiccards.info/query?q=arashi&v=card&s=issue), The Delvers Asunder.

[Lorenzo767]

With this metagame were combo are virtually gone, you think that the 4th Thalia it's really necessary? isn't better to play 3 copies of her? For example by add 1 Elspeth to the MD that is always a strong choice vs control?

[Maverick777]

With this metagame were combo are virtually gone, you think that the 4th Thalia it's really necessary? isn't better to play 3 copies of her? For example by add 1 Elspeth to the MD that is always a strong choice vs control?

I have found her to be very underwhelming 4 Thalia in my opinion is bad with three I see her virtually every game.

[Maverick777]

4 Thalia is not going to solve the problem against combo especially decks like sneak and show!! All it does is slow them down a bit why not bring in a threat that helps you win the game?

[Lorenzo767]

4 Thalia is not going to solve the problem against combo especially decks like sneak and show!! All it does is slow them down a bit why not bring in a threat that helps you win the game?

Of course not, and when i said combo i was talking about Storm combo like ANT,TES or Spiral Tide, that have disappear because of all those control decks!

I agree with you, i also prefer 3 copies instead of 4.

This is actually my deck list:



// Lands
4 [A] Savannah
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
3 [UG] Forest
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [UG] Plains
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
3 [COM] Scavenging Ooze
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 [M11] Fauna Shaman

// Spells
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 [LG] Sylvan Library

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [PT] Armageddon
SB: 1 [ROE] Linvala, Keeper of Silence
SB: 1 [UL] Crop Rotation


It comes from about 1 year of playtest with this deck ^_^ Any advice?

[Maverick777]

Of course not, and when i said combo i was talking about Storm combo like ANT,TES or Spiral Tide, that have disappear because of all those control decks!

I agree with you, i also prefer 3 copies instead of 4.

I urge you to try my package and tell me what you think I have constantly and consistently had tremendous results with the deck it can win out of no where with combinations of creatures with rafiq.

[Maverick777]

Why so many ooze and is fauna shaman worth it??

[Lorenzo767]

I urge you to try my package and tell me what you think I have constantly and consistently had tremendous results with the deck it can win out of no where with combinations of creatures with rafiq.

Why you don't play 1 single Tropical Island or Tundra to play Rafiq? it also allow you to play cards like Flusterstorm or Spell Pierce in you SB. However i'll try Rafiq and Sigarda ASAP, about Aven Mindcensor i were also a huge fan of it, but now i don't see it really good!

I play 3 ooze, because it is one of our strongest creature and not only vs GY based decks, and it always become the target of a lot of hate so i think it's good to have more copies, and if it become unnecessary you can always recycle it with Fauna Shaman...

[Maverick777]

Why you don't play 1 single Tropical Island or Tundra to play Rafiq? it also allow you to play cards like Flusterstorm or Spell Pierce in you SB. However i'll try Rafiq and Sigarda ASAP, about Aven Mindcensor i were also a huge fan of it, but now i don't see it really good!

I play 3 ooze, because it is one of our strongest creature and not only vs GY based decks, and it always become the target of a lot of hate so i think it's good to have more copies, and if it become unnecessary you can always recycle it with Fauna Shaman...

The rafiq Sigarda package is well worth it and Mindcensor will be cut for Arashi more than likely thoughts?!?!

[Maverick777]

I have cavern and nobles and GSZ that's well enough to be able to drop him

[conley1000000]

I really fail to see how rafiqs "winning" you games. I get the faster clock but it seems to me just double strike isn't enough. Gets chump blocked all day. Built correctly if you can swing through with a decent size KOTR via mom that should be all the clock you need. If rafiqs ability is the main point wouldn't a couple Ajani 1ww work better, giving the flying? I get it can't be green sunned for but planeswalkers are harder to deal with, IMO. Just seems like each situation you name there needs to be support cards to make him work, making him a win more card, and a liability.

[Maverick777]

I really fail to see how rafiqs "winning" you games. I get the faster clock but it seems to me just double strike isn't enough. Gets chump blocked all day. Built correctly if you can swing through with a decent size KOTR via mom that should be all the clock you need. If rafiqs ability is the main point wouldn't a couple Ajani 1ww work better, giving the flying? I get it can't be green sunned for but planeswalkers are harder to deal with, IMO. Just seems like each situation you name there needs to be support cards to make him work, making him a win more card, and a liability.

Having a mother of runes doesn't always ensure that you can get through with your big KOTR having rafiq not only as a body but allowing you to swing in and forcing your opponent to block regardless if they want to or not helps give you board state and ultimately will win you games comboed with creatures like Sigarda, terravore, aven Mindcensor, or just a ranger or a creature with a jitte on gives you a great advantage against your opponent. I faced a sneak how deck where I had 2 lands out a Sigarda and a noble and sylvan library he swung in with his griselbrand his life was at 14 i grabbe a green sun off the top dropped cradle and GSZ for 4 grabbed rafiq swung for exactly 14 to win the game. It is useful for getting damage through and winning quicker. You still hve all of the same creatures that maverick is known for you are not cutting any KOTR or anything strong you are simply adding things to help make you deck pack a heavier punch and with Sigarda they win games I have yet to lose after resolving a Sigarda because then I play rafiq and that's that and ya he can be removed from
The game but you can always karakas him
Back and the best part he is human so COS makes him
Along with your KOTR Uncounterable not using him had lost me games where I did have him
I would have surely won. Before you judge it try it out and tell me it's bad but before that don't judge it to harshly.

[matunos]

Thalia still does work against Omniscience decks: she prevents the Petals storm win and slows down their filters (Ponder, Brainstorm, Preordain) so they can't go through them as fast. Maverick does pretty well against Sneak Show, with Wasteland, Karakas, KotR. Theae answers are a lot worse when your opponent is casting Emrakul for free.

Sneak Show players usually want to SnT in Sneak Attack because casting it is slower. Even without Sigarda, you can survive and come back from a snuck in Emrakul (especially if you have enough permanents to keep a KotR on the board). The problem is when they bring out Griselbrand, because with him they can draw into more gas and close the thing out, with or without Sigarda. That's where the race is important, by stomping them to low enough life that they can't bargain if they do land a Griselbrand, and slowing them down through Wasteland and Thalia so they can't go off before you get an answer ready. Pinging them for 2 in the meantime can be relevant as well.

But honestly, Omniscience remains the worse matchup. You have few ways to stop them from showing it, and once it's out, all your answers are much worse than against Sneak Attack. OTOH, the Omniscience combo is harder to put together, being essentially a 3-card combo, so it's slower, and they're more likely to not have a payload even if they land the enchantment.

[Barbed Blightning]

I really fail to see how rafiqs "winning" you games. I get the faster clock but it seems to me just double strike isn't enough. Gets chump blocked all day. Built correctly if you can swing through with a decent size KOTR via mom that should be all the clock you need. If rafiqs ability is the main point wouldn't a couple Ajani 1ww work better, giving the flying? I get it can't be green sunned for but planeswalkers are harder to deal with, IMO. Just seems like each situation you name there needs to be support cards to make him work, making him a win more card, and a liability.

I've played with 777 before (I run primarily Goblins and Death & Taxes, but I'm getting back into the Mav game), and I'll tell you this much: Rafiq is a goddamn beast. With 4 nobles, 2 caverns and GSZ, you don't need the Tropical/Tundra to cast him (esp. since he is a singleton) and, once he hits (mid/late game) your opponent better be praying for removal, or they're done. Any creature you swing with basically wins combat and kills whatever is in their way, usually coming out unscathed. Double-strike also makes you Jittes far more terrifying.

The thing I like about Rafiq is that he can win by himself. Post-Deed he gives you a scary-good clock by himself, let alone if he has Sigarda to back him up. Furthermore, being CMC-4 makes you opponents have to pay more for their deeds.

For that matter, I don't understand why Maverick players (as a mean) play with mostly weenie creatures. With such solid mana ramp, why not try to drop bigger creatures? Elesh Norn, maybe even Iona come to mind initially, but even something like Baneslayer also seem good. With 777's build, you could conceivably have COS's on Human and Angel, and all of your bombs are secured.

[Hopo]

I have had really good experieces with Rafiq ever since Bant Survival times. As mentioned, he can actually kill your opponent out of blue - something the deck sometimes really needs.

For further references, "Dies to Lightning bolt" gets old really fast, as it applies to almost every creature you play and deliberately doesn't take mothers or Karakas into account.

[matunos]

Seems like the more of these higher cmc creatures you have, the more you want Gaea's Cradle.

[Esper3k]

Thalia still does work against Omniscience decks: she prevents the Petals storm win and slows down their filters (Ponder, Brainstorm, Preordain) so they can't go through them as fast. Maverick does pretty well against Sneak Show, with Wasteland, Karakas, KotR. Theae answers are a lot worse when your opponent is casting Emrakul for free.

Sneak Show players usually want to SnT in Sneak Attack because casting it is slower. Even without Sigarda, you can survive and come back from a snuck in Emrakul (especially if you have enough permanents to keep a KotR on the board). The problem is when they bring out Griselbrand, because with him they can draw into more gas and close the thing out, with or without Sigarda. That's where the race is important, by stomping them to low enough life that they can't bargain if they do land a Griselbrand, and slowing them down through Wasteland and Thalia so they can't go off before you get an answer ready. Pinging them for 2 in the meantime can be relevant as well.

But honestly, Omniscience remains the worse matchup. You have few ways to stop them from showing it, and once it's out, all your answers are much worse than against Sneak Attack. OTOH, the Omniscience combo is harder to put together, being essentially a 3-card combo, so it's slower, and they're more likely to not have a payload even if they land the enchantment.

Also from the board, O-Ring is really good against Omniscience since it blanks everything they'd be dropping off of it (even if they drop Griselbrand, you're going to exile him and they drop themselves low on life if they draw off of him).

Against Sneaky Show, O-Ring is still good, but you have to be careful of them dropping Sneak Attack off of Show & Tell, then activating it in response to your O-Ring trigger.

[Maverick777]

Seems like the more of these higher cmc creatures you have, the more you want Gaea's Cradle.

Well ya cradle is main boarded its amazing and you are already ramping with hierarchs and you run so many creatures tht come out so fast that cradle just makes it easy to GSZ in the bi fatties that just win games. Arashi the sky asunder is making an appearance in m deck quite soon to nuke delvers.

[lambert101]

I like Maverick777's list minus the mindsensor. I may try armada wurm in its place.

Edit:
Been brewing with RTR. Here is a possible list I may start to run.

Main:
2 forest
1 plains
4 windswept Heath
2 wooded foothills
4 savannah
1 maze of ith
1 karakas
2 cavern of souls
1 dryad arbor
4 wasteland
1 gaeas cradle

4 knight Of the reliquary
4 noble Hierarch
4 mother of runes
2 Dryad Militant
1 scryb ranger
1 scavenging ooze
1 Sigarda host of herons
1 rafiq of the many
1 gaddock teeg
2 pridemage
1 terravore
3 Thalia

4 green suns zenith
4 swords to plowshares
2 sylvan library
2 jitte

Side:
3 Path to Exile (aggro match ups, namely goblins)
3 Ethersworn Canonist (F-u combo)
3 O-ring (show and tell.dec)
1 Linvala (mirror and elves)
1 Giddeon (mirror and control)
1 Gadock Teeg (Miracles and combo)
1 Harmonic Sliver (random hate)
2 Armageddon (NIC Fit, miracles, and Control)

[Zand]

I know people have done it in the past but is anyone running a splash for black at the moment? I know there is a Junk thread but it seems like they typically go more heavy on the disruption, I specifically mean a Maverick deck splashing for Duress effects in the board maybe Abrupt Decay because the card is sweet.

[that0neguy]

A lot of people in my meta play a GWB knight decks, i'm not entirely sure how you destinguish between GW/b mav and Junk.

But I never really got the appeal of the black splash.

Bob is a great card, but I feel like discard is somewhat awkward without a ton of pressure behind it. In combo, it can pretty much turn out to be, get your free counterspell, kill you. But in the junk lists it is more like, take your removal spell, hope you don't draw another. And it gets really awkward when they have the brainstorm to hide what they really need.

Then you also need to figure out what to cut. Do you really want to cut something like Thalia for Bob, and then what do you cut for discard? And then you need to mess up your mana.

Bob is a great card, but I don't think its worth a splash. And I feel like discard is even worse.

That is more my impression from playing against the decks rather than with them.

[TheXile]

A lot of people in my meta play a GWB knight decks, i'm not entirely sure how you destinguish between GW/b mav and Junk.

But I never really got the appeal of the black splash.

Bob is a great card, but I feel like discard is somewhat awkward without a ton of pressure behind it. In combo, it can pretty much turn out to be, get your free counterspell, kill you. But in the junk lists it is more like, take your removal spell, hope you don't draw another. And it gets really awkward when they have the brainstorm to hide what they really need.

Then you also need to figure out what to cut. Do you really want to cut something like Thalia for Bob, and then what do you cut for discard? And then you need to mess up your mana.

Bob is a great card, but I don't think its worth a splash. And I feel like discard is even worse.

That is more my impression from playing against the decks rather than with them.

Agreed. While it doesn't have a spectacular matchup against combo, maverick has all the answers it needs in G/W (Dryad Militant/Scavening Ooze/Gaddock Teag/Ethersworn Cannonist/Aven Mindcensor..to some degree/and the all star Thalia). Sure sometimes you just lose when you go turn 1 Noble Heirarch and Dredge/Charbelcher/Storm goes off on their turn, but frankly it's not worth weakening the mana base and threat level for those rare occurrences.

[lambert101]

Thread has been dead for awhile and wanted to share my list that I have been slowly tweaking.

Lands:23
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland

Creatures:25
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Quasali Pridemage
4 Kight of the Reliquary
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Other:12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard: 15
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Dueling Grounds
2 Armageddon
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Thorn of Amethyst

Before people saying that I have a lack of removal hear my points.
- Rafig,Sigarda, and the Second Scryb Ranger help in the mirror and other fair creature decks.
- Increased number of fliers give evasion for Jitte
- Double strike is nuts, hence the Dueling Grounds in the side. Slow the creatures decks down till Rafiq gets online.

On Dueling Grounds:
I like that it is semi-combo/control/aggro hate. Goblin tokens are stopped, angel tokens look silly, and goblins/merfolk/elves are held at bay. Best part is that it can be played under Teeg. Only problem is I am only playing it as a 1 of. Not sure if this is correct.

On yard removal. I like crypt. It costs zero or 1 under Thalia. I had trouble with Relic because it is a little slow and can cost 2 under Thalia.

Please comment on my list as I am trying to become a better Maverick player.

[Koby]

A random Dueling Grounds in teh SB against Tribal w/o a way to find it seems like a wash. When you'll really need it, you won't have access to it. Would E-tutor help to fill in the sideboard here?

Shoring up the mirror is as simple as putting Linvala maindeck. While she's not tutorable, she does completely shut out Elves and the Mirror that Rafiq could not. This also frees up a space in the SB for some more hot fixes for tough matchups.

[lambert101]

@ Koby is the list in your signature your most updated?

I was thinking about even dropping Sigarda and Rafiq for Linvala and Terravore to free up sideboard and possibly add a second Dueling Grounds.

[Koby]

That's mostly right - I haven't examined updating the list much since Miracles became omnipresent in the metagame. Terravore is better outright than Rafiq for damage output against the mirror, Threshold, and random dredge decks (lands, Aggro loam, Dredge). And Linvala is better as a "heat-bear" than Sigarda, while both are flyers. The obvious shortfall is that you can't GSZ for Linvala however.

[lambert101]

I'm going to try that switch and how has your or anyone's experience been against miracles? I haven't played against it yet. Pithing needle looks good.

[door]

I'm going to try that switch and how has your or anyone's experience been against miracles? I haven't played against it yet. Pithing needle looks good.

beating miracles is not a problem if you know what to do. I suggest everyone having hard times against miracles read the recent article (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/24983-Eternal-Europe-Surviving-In-The-Age-Of-Miracles.html) by Carsten Cotter.

[Justin]

beating miracles is not a problem if you know what to do. I suggest everyone having hard times against miracles read the recent article (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/24983-Eternal-Europe-Surviving-In-The-Age-Of-Miracles.html) by Carsten Cotter.

I'd like to talk a bit about the part of the article that recommends playing equipment in the maindeck to beat Miracles:

"Equipment – Any piece of equipment will allow you to provide major pressure without overextending into Terminus. Sword of Light and Shadow and Sword of Fire and Ice are particularly effective because they also allow you to refuel. Note that a Teeg with a Sword of Light and Shadow is usually game over because they can't kill it."

Carsten makes some good points here, and certainly equipment can be good against Miracles under the circumstances that he describes. However, I'm not sure that it is correct to play equipment to improve the Miracle matchup. Equipment can be great if you get it online, but it is also slow and not a threat on its own. Carsten recommends playing a couple Swords of "X and Y," but I think that also implies that you will need to run Stoneforge Mystic. The problem with this is that it takes up a lot of slots in the deck. I don't think you can fit in a set of Thalia and a SFM package in the same deck. You probably have a better shot against Miracle if you forgo Mystic, add more hatebears (Thalia, Gaddock Teeg) and other anti-control cards in those slots and just run two Jitte instead. Then you board those Jitte out in game two (not so hot against Miracle) and bring in more hate. Then again, I could be wrong about this. Does anyone else have any opinions about how important equipment is in the Miracle matchup?

[HoneyT]

I don't think you can fit in a set of Thalia and a SFM package in the same deck.

Have you ever heard of a little deck called Death and Taxes? Evidently you can run them in the same deck!

Truth be told, right now I think Death and Taxes is just better than Maverick at this point in the metagame. Sad as that is for me to say.

[door]

Fitting SFM and a pair of swords is easier than it seems. Look for example at the list above. We have a solid shell, 2 floating slots and 1 Jitte to go:
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 jitte
So +2 Mystics, + 1 Sword of x/y.
Depending on your local meta and playing style there are also some candidates to cut:
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Sylvan Library

Sigarda and Rafiq may be cool in some matches, but I'm not sure they make our bad matches better. Anyway, I would always prefer SFM + Sword of Light and Shadow against miracles.

[lambert101]

With a stoneforge package batter skull should be considered.

[Fatal]

End second on local tournament:

Decklist:


4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Terravore
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

3 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept heath
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
3 Wooded Foothills

//SB
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Thorn of Ametyst
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Oblivion Ring


Cards choose vs meta:
OmiTell - I knew it will be on tournament - after analyzing a lot of cards I found that O-Ring's are best way to deal with both Griselband and Omni - there is no other way to deal with both route. I also consider U splash for new O-Rings which would be better also vs tokens (EtA and EtW).

Also some kind of soft-hate like Thorn of Ametyst isn't bad - connected with wastelands and Talia can give you enough time to victory.

UW Miracles: This was my hardest MU - a lot of removal for low cost, no real creatures, mass-removal (Terminus), with choke-proof manabase and fast wincon - EtA. I was thinking quite a long on this MU. Specially that the driver was really good (Top8 last Amsterdam GP and 10+ year experince in legacy/vintage)

I tried new tech - Chalice of the Void connected with Cavern of Souls vs multiple StP/PtE/Snap, and Gaddock with Mom/Safekeeper vs mass-removal(Terminus) and wincon (EtA/Jace). Chalice also turn of SDT (even if played first turn, it shut down end-of-turn Terminus, then Jace on empty board).

RUG - 5 MD removal with 2 Jitte, and small SFM package. Chalice are also nice gamebreaker here..

Goblins - 2 Jitte MD and Terravore, Elspeth (SB) resolve little green horde.

some Burns - Suprisely supreme CotV.

U/R - Same as Burn CotV and also removal vs Delvers, SFM package helps a lot.

Dredge - Maverick has quite good MU with it, unless its turn 1 off. Crypt/E.Tutor/Bojuka with 2 Oozes MD mostly enough - unless your opponent is lucky.

------------------------------------------------------
Thoughts after tournament (ended second loses 2-1 vs UWb Miracle in final - we play with Time to get better):

I won first game on tempo with Mom/waste+hierarch/thalia/KotR - waste his only white source.

I sided:
-4 StP
-1 PtE
-4 Noble Hierarchs
-2 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Scryb Ranger

+3 Chalice of the Void
+1 Thorn of Ametyst
+2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
+1 Choke
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+3 Oblivion Ring vs Jaces
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper

Funny thing I sided almost my all SB, only 2 cards left Bojuka and E.Tutor.
Second was a nightmare - I didn't get any of Chalice, and also no Cavern but quite decent hand. Get 2 Terminus after 3 StP/1 PtE. Last Terminus was EoT then Jace. He had FoW for my O-ring, game was sealed.

Last, third game was really impressive. I have nice hand but also without Chalice.
I started with turn one Mom which sticks (which was quite suprisely). Then turn 2 Thorn of Ametyst, then turn 3 Thalia (all spells cost +2). After I stick Gaddock I thought it is gg (had also Karakas). He was 10, I cast KotR for lethal next turn from tapped out all GSZ. Then he put 5 land (my bad luck no waste all game) fetch for underground Sea (didn't show splash until game 3) and cast for 5 mana Virtue's Ruin - devastating (after game I asked how many removal after sb - he answered 4 Terminus(3 MD), 1 Virtues Ruin, 1 Perish, 1 New WoG, and 4 PtE. Then twice Jaces get their O-Ring, He had FoW for Elspeth, and Disenchant for Choke (not so briliant, but could work when spells cost +1 Thorn still sticks). Time has come - Termination. He played EtA at end of turn for 4 (so he tapped 7 mana - thorn still taxes), then Attack in first turn termination bringing me to 2. If I had new Oring it would be draw (had 3rd one in hand) - shake hand.

The hole in all plan was:
- Not drawing CotV on start.
- 2nd Gaddock is very, very important (probably 1 MD, 1 SB).
- Splash in UW for Perish/Virtue is quite overkill..
- Change Orings into Spheres vs Tokens.

Thorn of Ametyst was very good.

Other Games which wasn't mention:

ANT - thought this deck is no more, I faced it 3rd Round. Won 2-0. Game 1 - I won a roll then sealed game with Thalia. Game 2 - Had hand: CotV, Gaddock, Thalia, Mom, wasteland, 2 lands - enough for easy win. Important was to put CotV for 0 turn 1 with Mom, which saved me from kill. Thalia, Gaddock and ride to victory.

Goblins - Terravore was all star here, specially with Elspeth backup - flying pig 14/14 is real deal. Had one hard time with Cavern manabase (couldn't play removal).

I sided ORings vs all controls with Jaces, it works.

I faced some Aggro like team italiana, or other not Tier1 decks (didn't even side Chalices, only Safekeeper) - no problems at all.

In conclusion, changes for next:
MD:
1 land (didn't figure which one)-> Tropical
1 card (same above, probably some of SFM package or PtE) -> Gaddock Teeg

SB:
3 Orings -> 3 Detention Sphere

I didn't test how CotV works vs UW in real - didn't come in time, but it can be very good vs quite a lot of decks.

Please to comunity - playtest Chalice of the Void in yours playgroup.

Note for playtest:
3 Cavern of Souls - 4th one is overkill and can be reason to color screw for GSZ/StP/Pridemage.
3/4 Chalice of the Void on sb - its has width spectrum of use in many MU.
It mostly replace StP where removal is useless.

[lambert101]

Again an update on my main and board:

2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland

Creatures:25
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Quasali Pridemage
4 Kight of the Reliquary
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Terravore
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Other:12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard: 15
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dueling Grounds
2 Armageddon
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile

Dueling grounds has been solid with Rafiq.

[Rigero]

HI,

what do you think about a black splash. I think now with Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay it is an option. So i tested a new version with black on our little local tournament this weekend (30 Players) and ended 3rd place.

here is the decklist:

3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Quirion Ranger
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Dark Confidant
3 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Birds of Paradise
SB: 3 Choke
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg


I found it really good. Deathrite Shaman was together with bob mvp.

Thoughts?

[Fatal]

Comments for upper list:

6 mana dorks even with additional options (exalted/ooze like) is too much in my opition. I would play on 2 shamans, and 2 hierarchs.

Gained slots for more GSZ which is MVP in all MU (can be any creature).

Quirion Ranger / Scryb Ranger - I don't think they're needed both - choose on of them. Scryb has flying and can block delver/cliques which diserve for attention.

Question: Having 6 MD removal (4 Decay / 2 StP - changing on 4 StP and 2 decay whould be better probably, maybe 3/3 split - StP is just too good for 1 mana to not use it) with Garruk is probably overkill - I recommand Sylvan Library specially with Bob. Lower mana curve, stabilize draw, and stack deck for Bob free cards.

SB:

As I mention few post ago Gaddock Teeg MD is actually must have against UW.

Korsan Grip I would replace with ORings to have a bigger chance against S&T, it also fix a hole vs Jace.

How single Sword of Fire and Ice helps and on which MU you bring it ?

3 Chokes is overkill better put something like Thorn of Ametyst which can be good also vs storm/belcher/S&T.

personal opinion - I don't like only 3 wastelands - your main plan vs control is to slow down opponent

Please playtest CotV in UW/x Miracle MU. - I don't have too much time to playtest it enough good, and post results.

[Fatal]

Conclusion vs BUG Control (playtest 5 hour this MU):

Choke is no more good vs this MU - I recommend Life from the Loam+wasteland. Was thinking even on Ghost Quarter as 5th wasteland.

[Barbed Blightning]

Armageddon seems like the most effective control hate. It blows BUG, Miracles, stoneblade and nicfit out of the water mid-to-late game.

[maktus]

Armageddon seems like the most effective control hate. It blows BUG, Miracles, stoneblade and nicfit out of the water mid-to-late game.

Gaddock stops armageddon, would be thorn of ametist better against control?

Last week Caleb Durward wrote a article about a "anti-miracles" maverick: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-the-gw-special/

[Barbed Blightning]

Gaddock stops armageddon, would be thorn of ametist better against control?

Last week Caleb Durward wrote a article about a "anti-miracles" maverick: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-the-gw-special/

Not against Deed-based control, which kills Grandpa as dead as the rest of your creatures, and your thorn. Armageddon is a great counterstrike the following turn esp. if you have a noble and fetch in-hand. And, for miracles, the important thing to realize is how slow they are, and how reliant they are on their basics. A resolved armageddon (if cast intelligently on our part) is a death sentence for a miracle player with 4+ lands in play. Whereas Maverick spends a turn or two rebuidling, Miracles will need 3-4 before they can pick up any steam.

That said, the GW Special list looks sick. I love Krosan Grips

[sdematt]

Rigero, if you're looking to play Dark Maverick, come over to the Junk thread. It's worth a look.

As for the anti-Miracles angle, Equipment isn't bad at all. It means your one goon that's staying on board is going to actually get some damage in. Even your god-awful Dryad Arbor or Scryb Ranger might actually get some points in. If you attack using stuff they can't remove, this also helps. Running extra Planeswalkers in the board is a fine solution to this problem. Using Garruk or Elspeth to make tokens totally ruins their sweep plan, and their ultimates are very good. Regarding SFM, it's a loose slot, but you could run a 1-of just to search out your Jittes and sideboard Swords, if required. You'd have to play Swords of Light and Shadow, I think, just for the Swords/Angel Token protection.

In short, max out your Thalias, and run a combination of Teegs, Chokes, Equipment, and Planeswalkers. Don't just keep running headlong into the strategy that they're good with. Don't keep mucking up the board with creatures and then get blown out by Terminus.

-Matt

[Philipp2293]

I've made to switch to Geddon effects from Choke (1 Ravages 1 Geddon in SB), but you have to be really careful if they have top cause they may Mini-ETA you which might be enough after resetting the lands on both sides, so only recommendable if you have 1-2 big dudes which might win the race.

[lambert101]

So is this deck dead? Hasn't put up hardly any numbers. Omnitell may have pushed this deck from their 1. Anyone have any good lists with Dryad Militant? I think that speed and small disruption may help bring this deck back. Just my two cents.

[Philipp2293]

It's far from dead, but I also think that with 2 hard MUs (Miracles and Omnitell) somewhere between Tier 1 and 1.5 it's not the greatest time to be on Maverick.

Also, I'm not really sure if I wanna play the Dryad unless your Meta is really Dredge infested.

[lambert101]

It's far from dead, but I also think that with 2 hard MUs (Miracles and Omnitell) somewhere between Tier 1 and 1.5 it's not the greatest time to be on Maverick.

Also, I'm not really sure if I wanna play the Dryad unless your Meta is really Dredge infested.

Agreed. Miracles is a pain but a protected Teeg can get you there. Against Omnitell, I think Tahlia, Wateland, and O-Ring are our only outs.

[Barook]

What about Glowrider to supplement your Thalias? With GSZ for Dryad Arbor and Hierarchs, you should be able to land a taxer on T2 pretty consistently.

[Philipp2293]

Problem against Miracles is even if a miracled Terminus is taxed, it should be payable most of the time. Also, since he lacks first strike, Glowride seems like a huge liability in aggro/tribal MUs.

You have a point that he should be quite good vs Omnitell.

[Fatal]

Tested more CotV vs U/W Miracle its worth a slot. My tester was UW/b Miracle with 2 Perish, 2 PtE,1 Supreme Verdict on sb (so worst scenerio).

MD: 1 Gaddock, 3 Cavern of Souls, 2 SFM (2 Jitte, 1 Skull)

Sided in:
3 CotV, 2nd(1 MD) Gaddock Teeg, 1 Sylvan Safekeeper, 2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant,1 Torn of Ametyst, 1 Life from the Loam

Sided out:
4 Noble hierarch, 4 StP, 1 Umezawa's Jitte

After sideboard was favorable (not a lot but quite - enough for win).

Gameplan: Stick Mom / CotV / Sylvan Safekeeper then lock with Teeg. Tax ETA/Jace with recurring waste.
Even after Perish and Terminus CotV still turn off most stuff like BS, Sensei and all removal it was really really good. I won each game where CotV stick (except one where he had single EE and play them for 0 before Teeg).

Against Omni for sure 3 O-Rings and Torn of Ametysts are the best options.

[matunos]

I'm planning on trying Aura Shards in place of a SB Harmonic Sliver (really only good against Cursed Totem, which only Merfolk seems to run these days), since it can play the odds vs CB, is tutorable, repeatable (good vs Affinity?) and might catch a gas-less Omniscience. But mostly it'd be for Humility (and Moat, I guess), since that's back-breaking.

(Really I got the Aura Shards to try in an Omnishow deck, but I want to try it here too).

Also, any thoughts on Raking Canopy? Too narrow?

[Codename55]

Played some games vs. Merfolk recently, and it just seems that I can't beat them no matter what I do. Lost 5 games in a row. I heard that it's a very easy match up so I was kind of surprised how I can't win.

Here's my current list, Mtgvault is down at the moment so I'm writing this from memory, something may be off.


___________________
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
3 Judge's Familiar
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Militant
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Aven Mindcensor

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Bojuka Bog
______________

I sided in 2 Path to Exile, sided out Sylvan safekeeper and Dryad Militant if I remember correctly.


So, basically, what happened every single game was they either play a creature or a Vial every single turn, and I simply cannot keep up. Sometimes I have removal, sometimes I have Mom for infinite block, but it doesn't matter because the merfolk keep piling up on the other side of the table and even after I get a huge knight, there are to many of them and I get overwhelmed.

Any tips are greatly appreciated. I was thinking of going back to 3 stoneforge mystics, Batterskull and a sword myself.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Cut the garbage main deck tricks (i.e. Aven Mindcensor, Bojuka Bog, etc.) and add a Stoneforge package.

You shouldn't be losing to Merfolk with Maverick. They can't Islandwalk you. They lose to your removal and Mother of Runes.

[matunos]

Played some games vs. Merfolk recently, and it just seems that I can't beat them no matter what I do. Lost 5 games in a row. I heard that it's a very easy match up so I was kind of surprised how I can't win.

Here's my current list, Mtgvault is down at the moment so I'm writing this from memory, something may be off.


___________________
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
3 Judge's Familiar
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Militant
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Aven Mindcensor

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Bojuka Bog
______________

I sided in 2 Path to Exile, sided out Sylvan safekeeper and Dryad Militant if I remember correctly.


So, basically, what happened every single game was they either play a creature or a Vial every single turn, and I simply cannot keep up. Sometimes I have removal, sometimes I have Mom for infinite block, but it doesn't matter because the merfolk keep piling up on the other side of the table and even after I get a huge knight, there are to many of them and I get overwhelmed.

Any tips are greatly appreciated. I was thinking of going back to 3 stoneforge mystics, Batterskull and a sword myself.

I don't claim to be Maverick pro, so take my comments as you will...

Dryad Militant, Judges Familiar, these are garbage. They're not worth the creatures you've shaved to make room for them (Ooze, Mom, Pridemage from what I can tell). If you didn't have Thalia, I could maybe see Judge's Familiar, but not with Thalia, even against combo.

Dueling Grounds wrecks Merfolk (and Goblins for that matter). Don't leave home without it.

[Codename55]

I was giving Judge's Familiar a test drive, and it doesn't so far seem to be making the cut. I would rather play a Hierarch, Mom or GSZ for 0 at first turn.

Dryad Militant hasn't really done anything for me yet but since it can be reasonably tutored with GSZ I am inclined to keep it in the deck for now. We'll have to see how it works, RUG will probably just burn it and with Mom it's almost win-more, so it's possibly garbage.

Main deck Bojuka Bog has been wonderful for me (may be a meta call). It hoses RUG, loam, dredge, reanimator and even snapcaster mages, I am always seeing plenty of each. I am amazed how useful it has been. It damn well stays.

I am running Enlightened Tutors on sideboard so dueling grounds would actually work well for my sideboard. I'll have to try it.

[Lorenzo767]

Have anyone tried to test a Abrupt Decay in sideboard?
It can easily take the slots dedicated to Path To Exile and Krosan Grip, because most of the targets of Path To Exile and Krosan Grip can also be destroyed with Abrupt decay, but we have the advantge of a spell that can't be countered and that is also more versatile.
I was thinking to play 1-2 Bayou MD and 3 Abrupt Decay in SB.
Any thoughts? :cool:

[SMR0079]

The deck needs a full revamp to stay competitive in the developing metagame. I think a more junkish build is the next evolution, just so many directions you can take it.

[KobeBryan]

The deck needs a full revamp to stay competitive in the developing metagame. I think a more junkish build is the next evolution, just so many directions you can take it.


I would love to see mav fall out of flavor.

I can't beat this deck for the life of me with bant.

[Bignasty197]

The deck needs a full revamp to stay competitive in the developing metagame. I think a more junkish build is the next evolution, just so many directions you can take it.

I've always wanted to see Maverick take a turn into something broken. The Loyal Retainers/Iona version was something I thought would catch on, but due to nobody having Loyal Retainers...well yea. Possibly something with Vengevine would be viable with Fauna Shaman fitting into the deck already. With Scryb Ranger, activating Shaman a couple times is good. Maybe I'm completely crazy. Maverick has always been that consistent, powerful deck that has a decent game against most of the field and probably should just stick to its core composition like the Goblin deck does.

[Hanni]

Fauna Shaman is way too slow to enable Vengevines. Vengevines are busted when you can put 4 of them into play on turn 4 while playing through hate. Vengevines are not busted when you can only bin one a turn (or two with Scryb/Quirion), and they are not busted when you give your opponent tons of time to rape your graveyard. I don't even think Vengevival would be a format warping deck anymore... there are just so many more answers to that 'turn 4, swing for 16' strategy these days. With Fauna Shaman? Good luck.

(The best way to power out Vengevines is in a Zombardment shell, where you have turn 1 discard outlets like Putrid Imp, Faithless Looting, and Entomb to enable turn 2 Vengevines... and Carrion Feeder/Goblin Bombardment to sac them if the opponent casts a Swords to Plowshares or Terminus)

[Bignasty197]

@Hanni

You are probably right. I only suggested Vengevine as a supplement to the game plan. And they have haste.

[Deckerator]

what about playing maverick more as a junk version? Taking a lot of hand discard and some permanent destroyers like abrupt decay.

@Bignasty
I like the Loyal Retainers combo too. :)
Have you any idea to include sth. like that?

[Hanni]

what about playing maverick more as a junk version? Taking a lot of hand discard and some permanent destroyers like abrupt decay.

That's actually what is being discussed in The Rock thread ("http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19432-Deck-The-Rock/page182).

Not trying to be offensive in any way, but I'm not sure that the Maverick guys want to discuss Junk decks in here.

[Dzra]

I think a Blue splash would solve Maverick's problems more than a Black splash. Splashing Spell Pierce for Show and Tell and Envelop for Terminus seems better than Abrupt Decay for... Counterbalance and Delver..?

Although, I'm not sold that any splash is needed. Teeg + a Mom or Sylvan Safekeeper is pretty rough for Miracles and Thalia + Wasteland is good against Show and Tell.

[Mirrislegend]

Has Maverick tested Judge's Familiar? It seems like an excellent addition to the Wasteland + Thalia plan and evasion is always good, especially with all the Exalted triggers

[Koby]

I don't think the Maverick decks wants to keep going small with more 1/1s. It's a bad enough wrap that Moms have to get boarded out to race decks that we can't interact with. The traditional (see my link in the sig) build is not so good anymore against Miracles/EsperBlade/RUG/Show & Tell as it used to be. I would consider testing with the Vial build first and adapting it to specific local metagames.

[KobeBryan]

I don't think the Maverick decks wants to keep going small with more 1/1s. It's a bad enough wrap that Moms have to get boarded out to race decks that we can't interact with. The traditional (see my link in the sig) build is not so good anymore against Miracles/EsperBlade/RUG/Show & Tell as it used to be. I would consider testing with the Vial build first and adapting it to specific local metagames.

Why wouldn't mav be good against RUG...i dont think they made any significant changes where mav would become a bad matchup against them.

[thefreakaccident]

This deck should be moving towards black a bit more. Deathrite shaman was made for the black splash of this deck, almost specifically. When you're done ramping out other threats, your killing them with a black/green lavamancer + beats. Exalted is only good in the first few turns anyways, 'goyf battles' have become much less common, and heirarch is not a topdeck to be happy about.

[lebarion]

(...) Deathrite shaman was made for the black splash of this deck, almost specifically. When you're done ramping out other threats, your killing them with a black/green lavamancer + beats.

I like Deathrite Shaman and I'm not sure what exactly you mean by comparing him to Grim Lavamancer, but just to note here, he only deals damage to opponents: "{B}, {T}: Exile target instant or sorcery card from a graveyard. Each opponent loses 2 life.".

[Koby]

Why wouldn't mav be good against RUG...i dont think they made any significant changes where mav would become a bad matchup against them.

Out of those matchups, RUG is the "best" matchup at 50%. Not exactly thrilled about being a coinflip as my best matchup.

[thefreakaccident]

I like Deathrite Shaman and I'm not sure what exactly you mean by comparing him to Grim Lavamancer, but just to note here, he only deals damage to opponents: "{B}, {T}: Exile target instant or sorcery card from a graveyard. Each opponent loses 2 life.".

The reach is what is relevant, which is why I made that crude comparison. I would not bring a card up for discussion if I didn't know exactly what it did, so please don't accuse me of such, it's rather insulting.

[maktus]

Hi people, what's your gameplan against belcher? any sugestions?

[DrHealex]

Hi people, what's your gameplan against belcher? any sugestions? Pray they give you a second turn so you can drop a hatebear, or you just lose.

If you splash blue you have numerous options at your disposal: from counter magic to detention sphere.

[Valtrix]

Haven't been keeping up with Maverick much lately, so could somebody fill me in on the issues this deck is currently facing in the meta? Thank you.

[Einherjer]

Haven't been keeping up with Maverick much lately, so could somebody fill me in on the issues this deck is currently facing in the meta? Thank you.

The most relevant issues are the following:

Miracle beats your ass up, as long as you dont play some Planeswalkers and more Gaddockteegs. Those changes make it harder for you to keep up with "good" MUs as RUG. If you decide not to care about Miracle, you're not going to win a tournament, so you actually have to do so. In addition to this, ANT-stormlike decks seem to have some kind of an resurgance. This MU isnt easy either. Finally, the more or less easy MU SneakAttack vanished mostly, and got replaced by Omniscience, which cant be hated out by Knight --> Karakas.

So, in general, Maverick is still a strong choice in fixed metas, but has problems dealing with RUG, Miracle and Omni AT ONCE! ... in addition to the random-combodecks, ofc.

That's what I experienced, feel free to correct me.

Greetings

[kai_nsane]

Hi,



The most relevant issues are the following:

Miracle beats your ass up, as long as you dont play some Planeswalkers and more Gaddockteegs. Those changes make it harder for you to keep up with "good" MUs as RUG. If you decide not to care about Miracle, you're not going to win a tournament, so you actually have to do so. In addition to this, ANT-stormlike decks seem to have some kind of an resurgance. This MU isnt easy either. Finally, the more or less easy MU SneakAttack vanished mostly, and got replaced by Omniscience, which cant be hated out by Knight --> Karakas.

So, in general, Maverick is still a strong choice in fixed metas, but has problems dealing with RUG, Miracle and Omni AT ONCE! ... in addition to the random-combodecks, ofc.

I think that is correct. With a 2nd Teeg in SB, Sylvan Safekeeper, PW, GY Hate (Bojuka Bog) and Storm hate (Ethersworn Canonist) you're good prepaired. Against Omnisneak are 2 or 3 O-Rings (or the new u/w Ring -> Tokens) a good answer.

Imo Goblins and Mirros are a hard MU, too. Against this More Removal, PW and maybe Linvala, Keeper of Silence are great. (-> Krenko)

My SB looks like this. It's against a unclear meta at a 50people tournament next week.

2x Tormods Crypt
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Gaddock Teeg (1MB)
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Path to Exile
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Elspeth, Knight Errant
1x Life from the Loam
1x Random - I don't know -.-

Feel free to correct me, or give me some tips.

[The Joker]

Hi people, what's your gameplan against belcher? any sugestions?


Besides winning the dice roll and hoping for a second turn you could also play Pithing Needle or even Mindbreak Trap to avoid loosing turn 0. Against Goblin Tokens you could try things like Engineered Explosives, Detention Sphere, Dueling Grounds (if he does not have too many little green buddies) ...

But you should keep in mind that every card in your sideboard should not only be useful against one single deck. If your metagame is really Belcher/Combo heavy it would make sense to adjust your sideboard.

I dont know the percentage, but Belcher does not always kill you turn 1. My plan against the deck would be hoping and dropping Gaddock which is usualy win. And Thalia should buy you enough time as well. I think in times of UW Miracle you should play a second Teeg in your board.

I hope I could help.:smile:

[Hanni]

Every DTB falls out of favor eventually, as the format adjusts, and people start building decks that beat it. Counterbalance was a boogieman when it first became popular, and the format evolved into Merfolk becoming a DTB because it smashed all the Counterbalance decks. Then Zoo became a DTB because it smashed the Merfolk decks. Then Maverick became a DTB cause it smashed the Zoo decks. Now you're seeing Miracles becoming a DTB because it smashes Maverick.

Maverick put 7 out of 8 players in the Top 8 of one of the SCG Opens. It should be no surprise that Maverick is falling on hard times now. You're on everyone's radar as a matchup to beat, and people have figured out how to do it.

The other problem is that Maverick is starting to run into the classic weakness of playing hatebear.dec - there are simply too many various strategies to try and hate them all out. I realize how broad the hatebears are these days, and it's a big reason for its success in here, but there will continue to be decks that just ignore their effects and/or race your clock.

[DrHealex]

I did pretty decently with Maverick at SCG Indy Open yesterday to a Top8 finish, probably just luck though :P

Rnd 1: UWr Miracles (2-0) Larson, Mark T
Rnd 2: UWr Miracles (0-2) Binek, Alex ----- I punted g1 :/
Rnd 3: Foily Merfolk (2-1) Muir, Scott D
Rnd 4: Hivemind (2-0) Wall, Keith ----- Lasted 10min, and got lunch... finally.
Rnd 5: Rug Delver (2-0) Lark, Brian F
Rnd 6: Rug Delver (2-0) Stowe, Jeremy
Rnd 7: Esperblade (2-1) Uppal, Justin A
Rnd 8: OmniShow (2-1) Edgerle, Nick L
Top 8: OmniShow (0-2) Krohlow, Sam J

Would have been content with any other matchup in the top8, but that's just how it goes sometimes.
Might just go for some more blue next time, grave hate will likely be retooled to be less narrow, or just less.

[Koby]

/respek/

Good job Tony!

[The Joker]

I did pretty decently with Maverick at SCG Indy Open yesterday to a Top8 finish, probably just luck though :P


Well done. May I ask you about your SB plans vs Delver RUG and Goblins? I usualy have problems against them. I started running Batterskull and more SFM again.

And what about SnT Decks (especially Omniscience) ? How do you beat those without ORing? Only Manadenial and Thalia?

[Esper3k]

Nice job!

How'd you beat Hive Mind that quickly? He go for Show & Tell into Emrakul and you had KoTR both times?

[DrHealex]

Nice job!

How'd you beat Hive Mind that quickly? He go for Show & Tell into Emrakul and you had KoTR both times?

Nothing that fun.
Won the Die Roll and went First.
G1:
Me: I play fetch get forest, and play Noble Hierarch.
Him: ancient tomb, grim monolith.
Me: wastland, thalia, blow up him tomb.
Him: pass
Me: Knight, swing 3.
Him: Discard emrakul (thus putting him on hivemind)
Me: play maze of ith, swing for 5 11111with knight, untap after dmg (JUUUDGE), i think i played another knight.
Him: Draw a card -> Scoop

G2: He mulls to 4 -_-
Him: Island
Me: Green source, noble hierarch
Him: Volcanic Island
Me: Thalia, wasteland
Him: Pass
Me: Ethersworn Canonist, Mother of Ruins
Him: Pass
Me swing, knight.
Him: Scoop


Well done. May I ask you about your SB plans vs Delver RUG and Goblins? I usualy have problems against them. I started running Batterskull and more SFM again.

And what about SnT Decks (especially Omniscience) ? How do you beat those without ORing? Only Manadenial and Thalia?
VS. Delver
+1 jitte, +1 path to exile, +1 garruk relentless, +1 linvala
-1 teeg, -1 elspeth, -2 Qasali Pridemage
VS gobos would be similar but -3 thalia instead of pmage, and leave in elspeth.

VS. omnishow
+1 linvala, +1 metamorph, +1 harmonic sliver, + 2 ethersworn canonist, +1 crop rotation, +1 karakas, +1 teeg
-5 removal, -1 stoneforge mystic, -1 jitte, -1 sword

Oring would be nice, but I was banking on avoiding the matchup. Karakas doesnt do anything when they land the enchantment.. and they always seem to have it for their show and tell -_-

[Asthereal]

Nicely done. :)
What was your list, and what would you change?

[lyracian]

Nicely done. :)
What was your list, and what would you change?
Can not answer the second part but here is the deck lists from StarCityGames.com Legacy Open - Indianapolis
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9367&iddeck=68393

[Stoyrm]

I've come to the conclusion that for the time being we should be playing Stoneforge Mystic. That card is just insane in the Goblins matchup and the miracles matchup. I use Sword of Fire and Ice (Jitte obv) right now, and it's performing rather well. For a while Stoneforge Mystic was terrible, but right now it's pretty well positioned. RUG isn't as good now due to Miracles and i feel it's more important to be trying to beat Miracles than RUG. At least with all the Miracles we don't have to play mirror's all day am i rite'!

Just wondering if anyone else is getting similar results?

[Einherjer]

I've come to the conclusion that for the time being we should be playing Stoneforge Mystic. That card is just insane in the Goblins matchup and the miracles matchup. I use Sword of Fire and Ice (Jitte obv) right now, and it's performing rather well. For a while Stoneforge Mystic was terrible, but right now it's pretty well positioned. RUG isn't as good now due to Miracles and i feel it's more important to be trying to beat Miracles than RUG. At least with all the Miracles we don't have to play mirror's all day am i rite'!

Just wondering if anyone else is getting similar results?

While I agree, that Equipment is particulary strong in the Tribal-MU I do not understand, why any equipment besides Batterskull is good vs Miracle. I am not so much into Maverick, but I played Miracle for a while.

So, why is like SoFaI and other Non-Skull-Equipments bad against Miracles? At first, they are slow. You need to cast your Mystic, you need to bring it in, you need to equip it. When you have equipped it, the Miracleplayer can just flip Top and Terminus your creature away. Well, nothing new, right? But, you invested so much time, and so much Mana in a terminusable creature. It's just like... you know.. tapping all your lands for like 3 turns to cast one threat, one threat that is terminusable.

I said it earlier, and I will say it again - if you want to beat Miracles, you'd be better of playing something like a second Teeg Mainboard and/or some Planeswalkers like Garruk, Elspeth...

Greetings

[Esper3k]

While I agree, that Equipment is particulary strong in the Tribal-MU I do not understand, why any equipment besides Batterskull is good vs Miracle. I am not so much into Maverick, but I played Miracle for a while.

So, why is like SoFaI and other Non-Skull-Equipments bad against Miracles? At first, they are slow. You need to cast your Mystic, you need to bring it in, you need to equip it. When you have equipped it, the Miracleplayer can just flip Top and Terminus your creature away. Well, nothing new, right? But, you invested so much time, and so much Mana in a terminusable creature. It's just like... you know.. tapping all your lands for like 3 turns to cast one threat, one threat that is terminusable.

I said it earlier, and I will say it again - if you want to beat Miracles, you'd be better of playing something like a second Teeg Mainboard and/or some Planeswalkers like Garruk, Elspeth...

Greetings

SoLS is pretty amazing against Miracles. Not only does it protect your guys from StP, but if you get it onto Teeg, they pretty much can't win the game without you walking Teeg into double Snapcaster or something.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

While I agree, that Equipment is particulary strong in the Tribal-MU I do not understand, why any equipment besides Batterskull is good vs Miracle. I am not so much into Maverick, but I played Miracle for a while.

So, why is like SoFaI and other Non-Skull-Equipments bad against Miracles? At first, they are slow. You need to cast your Mystic, you need to bring it in, you need to equip it. When you have equipped it, the Miracleplayer can just flip Top and Terminus your creature away. Well, nothing new, right? But, you invested so much time, and so much Mana in a terminusable creature. It's just like... you know.. tapping all your lands for like 3 turns to cast one threat, one threat that is terminusable.

I said it earlier, and I will say it again - if you want to beat Miracles, you'd be better of playing something like a second Teeg Mainboard and/or some Planeswalkers like Garruk, Elspeth...

Greetings

Equipment is good against board-control decks (except maybe Deed-based ones,) because equipment makes each creature a massive threat, allowing you to slow-roll your threats and negating the power of cards like Terminus.

[Einherjer]

Equipment is good against board-control decks (except maybe Deed-based ones,) because equipment makes each creature a massive threat, allowing you to slow-roll your threats and negating the power of cards like Terminus.

I agree with this under a few circumstances:
1) You have to be able to drop a new creature every turn.
2) You are not threatened by a fast Eot-kill.

Both isn't true for the Miracle-MU. Equipment costs time/tempo. And when there is a Counterbalance-Lock set up, they will just counter most of our creatures. They can't counter the endless armies of tokens that came onto the battlefield via Planeswalkers. Now, if they are like countering every second threat and removing the rest for a little time, they can just say fuck you- ill just spam Angels EoT and you're dead.

I still insist on more Teegs + Planeswalkers to be the solution, and by no means, Equipments.

EDIT: And yeah, arguing with Teeg + SoLaS + already equipped is just out of touch with reality.

Greetings

[Esper3k]

Really? I don't usually find Teeg + SoLS that hard to set up especially when you have Moms/Karakas to protect him for awhile until you can get out the SoLS.

Plus, it's not like Miracles is going to quickly get out Planeswalkers or Angel tokens (or if they're going for early Angels, they're doing it wrong).

SFM being slow isn't much of an issue against Miracles since they're even slower than Maverick can ever be.

[Justin]

I'm still not sold on SFM and equipment against Miracle decks. Sure, equipment can be good against them, but where do you find the room to fit in your sideboard cards, while keeping your SFM package at the same time? Here's a question for anyone who wants to take it. What do you think is the ideal list of 60 cards against UW Miracles post sideboard (only for games two and three)? And also what cards in the maindeck do your board out for this matchup?

[Esper3k]

I'm still not sold on SFM and equipment against Miracle decks. Sure, equipment can be good against them, but where do you find the room to fit in your sideboard cards, while keeping your SFM package at the same time? Here's a question for anyone who wants to take it. What do you think is the ideal list of 60 cards against UW Miracles post sideboard (only for games two and three)? And also what cards in the maindeck do your board out for this matchup?

Well the first cards you should be cutting against Miracles should be Swords to Plowshares and PtE (if you're playing a list that maindecks it).

Really depends on your list and how many cards you're bringing in from the sideboard.

Best cards against them imo are Teeg, Sylvan Library, Planeswalkers (Elspeth more than Garruck). Post board, I still like Armageddon these days. I even considered going back to old tech of running 1x Lightning Greaves to tutor up with SFM.

[Lorenzo767]

I'm still not sold on SFM and equipment against Miracle decks. Sure, equipment can be good against them, but where do you find the room to fit in your sideboard cards, while keeping your SFM package at the same time? Here's a question for anyone who wants to take it. What do you think is the ideal list of 60 cards against UW Miracles post sideboard (only for games two and three)? And also what cards in the maindeck do your board out for this matchup?

I think it's really difficult to answer you without a reference decklist.
For example i side in only 2 Armageddon and 1 Gaddock Teeg (1 MD) removing 3 Swords to Plowshares. I would like to have some PW in side for miracle 's MU but i haven't find room for them, for 1-2 PW i think i would additionally side-out the 4th StP and/or 1-2 Jitte...

[Esper3k]

Scavenging Ooze is also pretty bad in the matchup, so if you need more cards to take out, those are what I usually hit next after StP.

[Asthereal]

What do you think is the ideal list of 60 cards against UW Miracles post sideboard (only for games two and three)? And also what cards in the maindeck do your board out for this matchup?

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Eternal Witness /26

Spells:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant /12

Lands:
4 Savannah
3 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland /22

Something like this?
I personally don't play the Elspeths anymore since I focus on Teeg too much. Not being able to play Zeniths is bad enough. I don't want to get stuck with Elspeths in my hand too. Still, Elspeth is awesome against Miracles if we cannot make a Teeg stick.
Main deck cards that go are: Ooze, Swords to Plowshares, Maze of Ith, Scryb Ranger (although that guy might still be handy sometimes).

[Jiaozy]

Elspeth against Miracle is pretty risky since they usually splash red for SB REB and have Sulfur Elemental for the Maverick MU, Garruck the Veil Cursed is a much better card in the MU with the tutor effect to trade your Dryad Arbor or 5th turn Hierarch for a Gaddock Teeg or Sylvan Safekeeper while making 1/1s that trade with angels or random fatties against other decks!

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Elspeth is much stronger after a board wipe though, they have to deal with her or she's going to take over the game real quick.

That and when did miracles start running sulfur elemental, every list I've seen only runs R for REB in the mirror

[Esper3k]

I also have never heard of Sulfur Elemental being run in the sideboard from Uw decks - that's more of a RUG thing.

Uw decks don't need situational small sweepers like that since they have access to Terminus and now Supreme Verdict.

[Jiaozy]

Elspeth is much stronger after a board wipe though, they have to deal with her or she's going to take over the game real quick.

That and when did miracles start running sulfur elemental, every list I've seen only runs R for REB in the mirrorMany players that are already splashing red in UW Miracle are also packing a 2-3 Sulfur Elementals since it's an auto-win against this deck since it shuts down the most annoying cards in the deck (for them): Mother of Runes and Thalia.
Double Sulfur also solves the Gaddock problem.

Maybe not in the SCG circuit but here in Europe is a popular SB card and sooner or later the US should manage to catch up aswell, but it usually takes a few months for people on the other side of the ocean to realize certain things! :tongue:

So I wouldn't risk play Elspeth because Garruk is much better in the MU where Elspeth is good: Miracle and the Mirror.

While Elspeth crowds the ground with 1/1s that can be chumped, has a very preventable pump effect and a useless ultimate because your dudes can still Terminus'd and STP'd, Garruk creates either 2/2s or 1/1s deathtouch and also gives you an use for otherwise useless mana dorks and Dryad Arbors by fetching Reliquary, Mothers or SFM in the mirror and Gaddock/Mother/Thalia in the Miracle MU along with an ultimate that usually wins games because even with 2 or 3 creatures in the GY the effect is very powerful.

[maktus]

Many players that are already splashing red in UW Miracle are also packing a 2-3 Sulfur Elementals since it's an auto-win against this deck since it shuts down the most annoying cards in the deck (for them): Mother of Runes and Thalia.
Double Sulfur also solves the Gaddock problem.

Maybe not in the SCG circuit but here in Europe is a popular SB card and sooner or later the US should manage to catch up aswell, but it usually takes a few months for people on the other side of the ocean to realize certain things! :tongue:

So I wouldn't risk play Elspeth because Garruk is much better in the MU where Elspeth is good: Miracle and the Mirror.

While Elspeth crowds the ground with 1/1s that can be chumped, has a very preventable pump effect and a useless ultimate because your dudes can still Terminus'd and STP'd, Garruk creates either 2/2s or 1/1s deathtouch and also gives you an use for otherwise useless mana dorks and Dryad Arbors by fetching Reliquary, Mothers or SFM in the mirror and Gaddock/Mother/Thalia in the Miracle MU along with an ultimate that usually wins games because even with 2 or 3 creatures in the GY the effect is very powerful.

if people in europe are using sulfur elemental why not use Wilt-Leaf Liege? she makes an surprise army with gaddock, pridemage, reliquary and can do a quick kill.

[Hanni]

No idea why UW Miracles (regardless of the region), would splash red for REB and Sulfur Elemental... when black for pinpoint discard is better vs the mirror and SNT, and E Plague is better than Sulfur Elemental against Maverick while actually improving one of Miracles worst matchups (Goblins). *shrugs*

[Koby]

No idea why UW Miracles (regardless of the region), would splash red for REB and Sulfur Elemental... when black for pinpoint discard is better vs the mirror and SNT, and E Plague is better than Sulfur Elemental against Maverick while actually improving ones of Miracles worst matchups (Goblins). *shrugs*

Echo on Sulfur Elemental being an odd choice for UW Miracles. But nevermind that, Planeswalkers provide a way to generate incremental advantage against the matchup where your creatures (or lack thereof) are the biggest liability.

[Hanni]

Big boy Garruk (of the Primal Hunter variety) seems alot scarier than Elspeth, and hitting 2GGG vs Miracles shouldn't be a problem...

[Jiaozy]

No idea why UW Miracles (regardless of the region), would splash red for REB and Sulfur Elemental... when black for pinpoint discard is better vs the mirror and SNT, and E Plague is better than Sulfur Elemental against Maverick while actually improving one of Miracles worst matchups (Goblins). *shrugs*Simply because black is much worse than red as a splash for UW Miracle.

REB can be used against most of the tier 1 and 2 (S&T, Storm, RUG, Miracle, Stoneblade, Merfolk) while discard is useful against half of those MUs and doesn't save you from topdecks.

Hence why, having no access to black for good reasons, people run Sulfur Elemental as a SB card for the Maverick MU.

[fredteded]

We had a small tournament this weekend, top prize was FTV realms and I took down 1st place.

My list:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Quasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Dryad Militant

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library

1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Maze of Ith
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas

SB:
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Strip Bare
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Dueling Grounds
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ethersworn Cannonist

Round 1: Merfolk
My opponent also has belcher built and as I sit down I'm a bit worried I'm going to loose right away, thankfully it's merfolk instead.
G1: Towards the end of the game I tap out for Elspeth and fly my knight over his guys leaving 2 Moms and a Tarmogoyf back to block. He has no cards but two reejery in play if he topdecks any merfolk I'm dead to reejery triggers, if he draws anything else he probably can't even kill Elspeth and he is dead to Elspeth + Knight. He drew cursecatcher and I'm dead.
SB: +1 Dueling Grounds -1 Dryad Militant, I don't remember if I brought in Teeg or not.
G2: The major play of this game was I had played a Knight (3/3) and passed turn I also had Scryb Ranger in play. He had Reejery and cursecatcher in play and played a Master tapping my Knight, he attacked with both, my knight untaps blocks and I destory my wasteland with itself to kill his 3/3 Reejery with my now 4/4 Knight.
G3: We were running really low on time so this went fast all I remember was a very awakward alpha strike by him that wasn't lethal (without me blocking) into my 2 Moms and Scryb Ranger, I considered not blocking but did anyway, untapped and my knight was lethal.

Round 2: Zoo
G1: She gets out a Loam Lion and a Kird Ape pretty quickly but her mana is bad with plains, taiga and mountain. My wasteland kills her Tiaga and I play Thalia. She makes a terrible attack with both her 1/1's into my Thalia and she never really recovered.
SB: +1 Finks -1 Dryad Militant
G2: This was much closer, I drew a lot of lands but couldn't find much gas. She pithing needeld my Elspeth and I was praying for a Zenith. When I finally draw zenith I'm at 2 life and have to get Kitchen Finks instead. She plays Knight the following turn, I attack into her knight with finks and I'm back to 6 life. I play my own Knight and she Chain Lightning me the following turn. At this point her Knight could be active and growing/fixing her mana but instead she just sits there with it. Eventually I kill her other creatures and my knight is big enough she has to block with her smaller knight.

Round 3: Belcher
I was afraid of this matchup and thought for sure I would lose. I even told my opponent "At least I can still make the playoff."
G1: He wins the die roll and makes turn 1 18 Goblins... GG nice deck.
SB: -4 Swords -1 Path + 2 Mindbreak Trap +1 Teeg +1 Canonist +1 Dueling Grounds
G2: He mulls to 5 and I have turn 1 Mom turn 2 Teeg and he scoops.
G3: He keeps 7 and I'm worried I'm dead. I go digging for a Mindbreak Trap. I mul to 2 keeping Forest Pridemage. He plays turn 1 Probe and passes. I draw a Savannah play forest and pass. He draws and discards. I play my pridemage and pass. He keeps discarding while my guys beat down. Apparently he needed a red initial mana source and he could have played and activated Belcher.

Round 4: Stoneblade Counter Top
G1: I win but don't remember the game at all.
SB: +1 Teeg +1 Strip Bare +1 Dauntless Escort -1 Thalia -1 Scryb Ranger -1 Jitte
G2: He keeps a 1 land hand with Top I keep a 1 land + maze of ith hand. I never draw another land and he eventually gets Counter Top.
G3: He spent a lot of the game trying to Detention Sphere my Teeg so he could Wrath my other creatures but every time he did I zenithed up a pridemage and killed the sphere. My Strip Bare killed his batterskull and my Knight eventually killed him.

Top 4: Goblins
G1: A pretty typical goblins game, my Knight does the abyss thing for a while while mom + tarmogoyf + ooze play defense, eventually he dies.
SB: +1 Kor Firewalker +1 Dueling Grounds -1 Thalia -1 Elspeth
G2: I get down dueling grounds + Kor Firewalker but he has assembled Krenko + Skirk Prospector + Sharpshooter. I can't find swords in time for his sharpshooter and he eventually has enough guys to kill me.
SB: -2 Thalia +2 Firewalker
G3: He got stuck on 2 lands both non basic. My knight came down early and destoyed his lands and he gave up.

Finals: Stoneblade Counter Top (same guy from Round 4)
He wanted the booster packs from second place rather than FTV realms and conceded to me.

[useL]

So three of your five wins was based on them being very unlucky and you lucky or them not being able to play Magic properly?

I wish my meta looked like this, would be a rich man by now.

[useL]

I decided to try Maverick last Tuesday and this was the list I competed with. Writing this at work and it seems I have forgotten one card, will probably come up with it later.

24 creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Loxodon Smiter
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

23 Lands
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Forest
2 Plains
3 Wasteland
3 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith

12 others
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Krosan Grip
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Crop Rotation
1 Oblivion Ring

I was expecting storm, UW and RUG to be the decks I had to beat to go 4-0. The following decks I played against:

Bout 1 vs Spiral Tide (0-2)

G1: I play and slam a mother t1, he thinks about forcing but lets it happen. He cantrips and I slam a Cavern into Teeg turn 2 and think I have this win. He continues to cantrip while I bash in with my teeg t3, another great draw means I resolve a Sylvan Safekeeper thinking I have this win. He wishes for Wipe Away and I know that I am probably screwed. I think about saccing a land each second mainstep to keep Teeg in play so he has to bounce in his turn. I beat him down to about lethal next turn when I pass priority for turn, he bounces Teeg with Wipe Away and then the game is over.
G2: Excited to try my tech with chalices I happily board in 1 Teeg, 4 Chalice, 2 Krosan Grip (he plays with candelabra). I board out 2 Elspeth, 4 Sword and 1 Jitte. I get to play and I keep a hand with Lands, Cavern of Soul, Teeg, Chalice and Hierarch (basically). I end up resolving manaramp into chalice on 1 into Teeg without him being able to prevent any of it. I end up with a lousy clock hitting for 4-5, I make a mistake (I think) where I want to keep my Cavern of Souls available to cast back Teeg without him being able to force it instead of wasting it for 1 more damage with my knight. This seems to be the wrong way to go since he ends up with basically 1-2 life (wasteland and cavern) when he wins. He Wipe Aways my Chalice, Snaps my Gaddock Teeg and away he goes again. It seems he gets just the right amount of bounce and I deal too little damage.
Summary: Hatebears doesnt win if they dont apply pressure. Letting HighTide-players go to 5 Islands is too slow if we do not have more to interact with. I even had a Krosan Grip with mana avail but when he goes off he has more candelabras in hand to play out after I take one away.

Bout 2 vs Maverick. (2-1)
G1: I end up with a board state with 2 moms, knight, ooze and some critters after he mistakenly crashes with Ooze (2/2) into my Mom+Fetch that turns into dryad arbor and pro green on mom. I make the trade ofc and I sit comfortably with that trade. He zeniths for 3 and I don't care really until he fetches up a Terravore. Being a huge beast (13/13 I think) I have to deal with it quickly. Neither player draws a Swords to Plowshares or Jitte during three games so you know =) He slams into my forces after I have bojuka bogged his gy. He attacks into me, I pro green knight and do some calculations, wasteland myself with my knight and progreens it. Terravore dies and the match is over from there basically.
G2: Sideboarding was quite easy bringing in 1 Ooze, 1 Linvala, 2 Path to Exile, 1 Garruk, 1 Oblivion RIng. Out was Teeg, 4 Thalia and 1 Maze of Ith. I mull to 4, nothing exciting really, hands were: 1 knight+6 lands - 2 mom, 2 swords, something, 1 wasteland - no lands - 3 lands and hierarch.
G3: I find mana ramp, into ooze, into mom, into elspeth into sylvan safekeeper and with 6 lands total his maze of ith cant handle the flying slime.

Bout 3 vs U/W Miracles (2-0)
This matchup got me worried, he has gone 11-1 in matches the last couple of weeks and our meta is QUITE hard to compete in considering we have players constantly winning PTQs and going day2-top64 in GPs. Not bragging here, just explaining it is quite tough.
G1: I go double mother into teeg without him being able to prevent it. After this it is quite over and I just hit him with my small guys (teeg, arbor) until he scoops. I think I also got to resolve something bigger, maybe a knight in the end of the game. It was quite over allready there, he needed 2 swords and a terminus to win.
G2: Sideboarding in 1 Gaddock Teeg, 2 Krosan Grip, 4 Chalice of the Void. Taking out 4 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Umezawas Jitte, 1 Maze of Ith, 1 Bojuka Bog. I end up resolving a Chalice on 1 and getting a Teeg in play with Knight hitting him. The game is over once he realizes he doesnt have outs for both my hateitems and that he ignored my chalice (he could have blown it up with explosives early but instead opted to play a terminus from the top on a lucky draw just to kill my hierarch) Afterwards he admitted that he got trigger happy on that terminus and that the correct play would have been to go for explosives killing chalice before my teeg hit the table.

Bout 4 vs ANT(R) (2-0)

G1: I resolve Teeg and bring the beats. He tries to find solutions but I waste him out of useful mana. A little hazy here on details.
G2: SIdeboarding was easy, out with the removal, in with the chalices, 2 crop rotation for quick bojuka bog and 1 teeg. He keeps a shaky hand with few lands but it was a dangerous hand with lots of black quick mana and ad nauseam. Too bad he doesnt find his second land before I resolve enough threats. My first turn is land, hierarch, chalice on 0. It feels nice to know that he can not win using petals and LED. I follow that up with an ooze and dryad arbor and bring the beats while shrinking him so he can not threshhold with his cabal ritual. He resolves double Dread of Night but my chalice just stares on them and thinks that he is glad he isnt a canonist or gaddock teeg.

To summarize I made some fatal errors in the first bout, I could have mulled more aggressively for a Thalia which seems to be the best card against that deck. I loved the Chalice of the Void today and had I faced RUG it would have gone in there aswell. I never got to utilize the Loxodon Smiter or the Deathrite Shaman, maybe they are just too cute cards to play. They could be a second Scrub Ranger and Birds of Paradise (heavy curve in this list with 2 Elspeth) or maybe one Sylvan and a Scrub Ranger. I do not think Ethersworn Canonist would have been better today than the Chalice if I am to compare those two cards. The SpiralTide could have handled them both and the ANT player got stuck on lands. The chalice vs U/W is a lot better than Ethersworn ofc and had I played against RUG it would have felt great to slam it down.

Comments, hate and love are welcome. Cheers.

[door]

Comments, hate and love are welcome. Cheers.

It seems that you were lucky enough, because chalice has a nonbo with too many cards in Maverick. Against RUG you always want mother of runes and removal. You have PtE in Sb, that you should side in, but with chalices it just won't work.
Against UW it's scary to attack with Teeg into Snapcaster or Clique when you have a chalice instead of mother of runes... Also they usually side in disenchants, so it's even worse.
And how do you play without Sylvan Library? With the chalice you have lots of dead cards which you need to filter.

[useL]

It seems that you were lucky enough, because chalice has a nonbo with too many cards in Maverick. Against RUG you always want mother of runes and removal. You have PtE in Sb, that you should side in, but with chalices it just won't work.
Against UW it's scary to attack with Teeg into Snapcaster or Clique when you have a chalice instead of mother of runes... Also they usually side in disenchants, so it's even worse.
And how do you play without Sylvan Library? With the chalice you have lots of dead cards which you need to filter.

Mother of Runes gets resolved just fine with three Cavern of Souls. The only cards that are dead are the removal cards and the crop rotations basically. I admit that against RUG the Chalices are worth less since you want to use your Swords but you dont have to play the Chalice when they have a flying bug out, kill it, slam it. But against storm/combo/UWmiracles you do not want any of the white removal cards anyway. If you get to resolve a Chalice on 1 in those matches you probably will win through their eventual creature threats.

Really? U/W sides in disenchants against Maverick? To do what? Kill the Jitte/sylvan? It seems there would be better cards to have against our deck.

[maktus]

Mother of Runes gets resolved just fine with three Cavern of Souls. The only cards that are dead are the removal cards and the crop rotations basically. I admit that against RUG the Chalices are worth less since you want to use your Swords but you dont have to play the Chalice when they have a flying bug out, kill it, slam it. But against storm/combo/UWmiracles you do not want any of the white removal cards anyway. If you get to resolve a Chalice on 1 in those matches you probably will win through their eventual creature threats.

Really? U/W sides in disenchants against Maverick? To do what? Kill the Jitte/sylvan? It seems there would be better cards to have against our deck.

They use disenchants against choke and/or sword BW (if you have).

[Koby]

I still don't like the Miracles matchup whatsoever. I think I might be on board with the PW plan out of the Sideboard. If only there was a way to ensure that Entreat the Angels didn't ruin my day :(

[HoneyT]

I still don't like the Miracles matchup whatsoever. I think I might be on board with the PW plan out of the Sideboard. If only there was a way to ensure that Entreat the Angels didn't ruin my day :(

Raking Canopy obviously.

[Tinefol]

I still don't like the Miracles matchup whatsoever. I think I might be on board with the PW plan out of the Sideboard. If only there was a way to ensure that Entreat the Angels didn't ruin my day :(

Not that hard to ensure.

a) You maindeck 4xTalia 1xTeeg, 2xCavern
b) You Sb 2xTeeg, 2-3x Needle

You grind them out postboard so easily. If you manage to land needle on top, their fighting ability will be severly limited, and you're bound to stick a Teeg, since you run 3.

[sdematt]

I've opted for the Planeswalkers plan for a while in my test build that I grind against. I agreed very much with what Karsten was saying in his article. Entreat does suck for sure, but there's not much you can do (except Gaddock Teeg obviously).

In the main, I'm running 1 Garruk Relentless (due to my playing of Ulvenwald Tracker, but also for 2/2 token generation). I think in the board, I'd want to play another Garruk Relentless and some split of either Elspeth or Primal Hunter. I haven't tested Primal Hunter, so I cannot be certain as to its effectiveness, but Elspeth has been good, Sulfur Elemental or not. Garruk nicely gets around Sulphur Elemental and can tutor for other creatures (ex. say if you wanted to run a 1-of Thrun, as well).

The Miracles matchup won't be great, and to be honest, it usually isn't wonderful.

This is what I've been running as my test Maverick build, or at least one that I would play in a Rock-Paper-Scissors of RUG, Maverick, Omni, and Miracles:

4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest/Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
23

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Sylvan Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Qasali Pridemage
24

4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
14

--BOARD--
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Choke
1 Planeswalker of your choice
1 Sylvan Library (can't get enough Sylvan Library in this matchup for Miracles, but this is a loose slot, the 6 cards you're bringing out are 4 Plow, 1 Tracker, and one Ooze I think)
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
+ 4 Open

This is what I'm testing against. I'm not saying it's the best or anything like that, just my line of thinking on the matter. Equipment turns every creature you play into a threat, and Planeswalkers are an angle of attack Miracles can't deal with.

-Matt

[Tinefol]

For god's sake, people, why are you not running Gaddock Teeg in numbers? It shuts down up to 15 cards in Miracle deck, all their sweepers, and all their winconditions - basically everything relevant except for STP. They can't do shit under mom + teeg, so aim to it (and even thalia + teeg is very hard to deal with). Even if they deal with one Teeg, you're still good at GSZing yet another. Or casting it uncounterable via Cavern of Souls.

And really, pithing needle on Top is severe hit on ability of that deck to even put a fight. And its much easier to resolve than Choke and planeswalkers (which are victims of Counterspell, or are simply Spellpierced).

Both Teeg and Needle have applications in other match ups, should I mention that?

[Avatar of Light]

2 Sylvan Ranger

You mean Scryb Ranger, right?

[defector]

You mean Scryb Ranger, right?

The most recent TMI has been posted.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/25150-Too-Much-Information-LA-Atlanta-And-Cincy-Legacy-Opens.html

It doesn't bode well for Mav, it looks like Miracles is ascendant, RUG doesn't roll over as easily as it used to and Omnitel smacks the sass out of Mav's mouth. In honor of thsi sad trend I am adding black for HD and AD to get cb decks, and I don'd think it's going to work. Is it time to put the x back in Mav and what kind of x would best adapt to the meta. I think the trends are continuing, our best match ups are decreasing in number and our bad match ups are becoming more popular. I don't know what the answer is, but I think the whole list needs to be reviewed. I in particular am of ten unhappy with Thalia in the current meta, and I think we need 1 Teeg main and 1 in the board at a minimum. Something like that, but is it enough?

[Barbed Blightning]

Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt Decay and discard seem strong right now. A Rock-style build seems good given the trends of the current metagame.

Personally, I'd drop the nobles for Shamans, and beyond that it's up the the air for what to and how to add the cards.

[useL]

Not to bark up the wrong tree here but might it be that the decline in good results at North American tournaments is that the deck has a weak player base? I have watched a couple of games on ggslive/blip.tv etc and some pilots seem to be quite weak navigating this deck. I also see quite a lot of weak builds when checking what decks that place in tournaments, builds with Fauna Shaman, Aven Mindcensor, Batterskulls etc. I see no problem what so ever beating Miracles or RUG with this archetype if you just know how to play against them and build properly.

I agree that Abrupt Decay and dealing damage with Deathrite Shaman look good on paper, but 2 forests and 2 plains look better than 2 Bayou and 2 Scrubland against RUG if you get my drift. All changes to this deck means in the end that you get stronger against some decks and weaker against others. For instance, if you know how to play around Daze/Pierce (quite easy in our manaramping deck) how hard is it really to resolve a Swords to Plowshares or Umezawa's Jitte to win against RUG? Or how hard is it to resolve a Elspeth, Knight-Errant vs a deck like Miracles after sideboard when the only counter magic they have is 2 Counterspells and 4 Force of Will (given they dont board these out aswell)?

Maybe I come of a winning streak and have my hopes up, I am just saying, build your deck without the fancy sh1t and just go for the win. Resolved Elspeth or resolved Knight of the Reliquary without forest in play and those two matches are over.

Furthermore I am going to pack 1 Gaddock Teeg main and 2 in sideboard from now on. Also will keep 4 Noble Hiearch and go to 1 Birds of Paradise and 1 Deathrite Shaman (for mana/life) to get my plainswalkers out through Thalia. You guys splash black and remember to take your comments to the ROCK-thread if you do.

[Valtrix]

I mean, trying to discuss the worth of a black splash (ie, playing a more rock style deck) should be a valid point of discussion in the thread. I mean, in Stoneblade or Miracle decks splashing colors is certainly acceptable, and basically what the above posts are saying is that having some more board control as opposed to just aggro might be a good thing. That is hardly an out of line discussion on this thread, especially since the thread is titled "GW/x Maverick."

[useL]

I mean, trying to discuss the worth of a black splash (ie, playing a more rock style deck) should be a valid point of discussion in the thread. I mean, in Stoneblade or Miracle decks splashing colors is certainly acceptable, and basically what the above posts are saying is that having some more board control as opposed to just aggro might be a good thing. That is hardly an out of line discussion on this thread, especially since the thread is titled "GW/x Maverick."

Sure, a splash is interesting to discuss. When does a splash become a third colour though? 4 spells, 8 spells, 16 spells? What makes the difference between Junk and Rock?

I feel that if there are ways of making G/W-better instead of looking into other colours to make it better, those options might be more interesting to discuss at first hand. Remember that one of the strongest things about G/W is that it plays two colours. There is a reason why zoo or junk isn't placing very well consistently.

[.Ix]

Well, GWB decks have been doing very well recently. Check out some results at TC. If I'm not mistaken, two Junk decks split the finals at NELC last week.

[defector]

I think black is good right now, I think Thallia isn't as strong as she used to be. Mav placed well with Punishing Fire, placed well with Thalia, there are lots of flex spots in the list. As for Mav vs Junk, I think if you see Mox Diamond and Bob it's Junk, or at least enough Junk that it probably should be on the Junk thread. If it's GSZ package then I feel like it's still Mav, but at the end of the day they are KOTR decks that want to play somewhere in the mid range. As to the comments above,I don't think the play skill is really hurting the mav success rates. Its possible, but it seems unlikley. I just thinnk the meta has shifted against it with more control deckss runnning sweepers and the swarm aggro decks making shaman style combo mav really hard to play. Mav is more popular in Europe, and that shows up in the results, but I think the win/loss mu ratios shake out pretty similar.
I do completely agree with the amount of screwing around with Fuana Shaman builds etc. The deck can get over toolboxed and then it runs into trouble. I am nervous about the mana base in this list, 4 basics is probably better, but then you get to play some really powerful cards. I don't know, everything is a trade off. This is a much more aggro build that I am hoping meets Goblins head on, provides a serious clock with a threat base too diversified to swords out as well as being lethal with only one or two creatures on the field, thus forcing terminus out.I playtested about 20 games preboard and post vs Miracles. It seems like it was a 4-6 dog preboard and then 5-5 post. That's livable. Stands up to SNT and Storm decks pretty well and is favored vs RUG maybe even a little more with the synergistic GY disrupt. Anyway, this is a Beta test of what G/w/b Mav could look like. If you want to Junk it out then swap the GSZ package for Bob X4 and Top X3. I don't know if this is optimal but it seems to be ok.

Anyway, my testing so far has been limited. I played Sneak Show and won 2-0, Angel got game 2. Ive gone 2-1 vs BUG Delver decks, if they don't run stifle it feels like a cakewalk. I lost in 3 to hard core control Junk, but that really could have gone either way, all close games. Lost to high tide once, don't know if that means much. I want to get some games in vs Esper, I feel like Shaman eating swords is really good there, though this list is in trouble vs Perish which many still run. I'm better off vs the Supreme Verdict style decks as Teeg gets me real mileage there. If supreme verdict begins to solidly replace Perish, I think that mu will only get better and I don't think it's bad now.

With Thalia out I get t2 choke with out too much stress and resolving PW has never been so easy, both good points, though I don'd know if it's enough to merit the change.

This is what I have been messing around with.:

G/w/b Mav
Lands-23-
Wasteland X4
Windswept Heath X3
Verdant Catacoms X3
Savannah X3
Scrubland X2
Bayou X3
Karakas X1
Maze of Ith X1
Plains X1
Swamp X1
Forest X1


Green-10-
Green Sun’s Zenith X3
Tarmogoyf X4
Scavening Ooze X1
Garruk Relentless X1
Scryb Ranger X1

White-8-
Mother of Runes X4
Swords to Plowshares X3
Elspeth, Knight Erant X1

Gold-13-
KOTR X4
Deathrite X4
AD X3
QP X1
Gaddock Teeg X1

Black-4-
IOK X2
TS X2

Artiacts-2-
Umezawa’s Jitte X2

[sdematt]

You can run Junk with both GSZ and Bob, you know. Come over to the Junk thread. We have goodies.

-Matt

[defector]

Ok ok i'll be over in a minute:)

[Vandalize]

I've been testing the following list, to a good success. The sideboard is pretty tuned against Miracles, which has been giving some GW players some headaches.

The list:

Lands [23]
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor

Dudes [25]
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Stoneforge Mystic

Others [12]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard [15]
3 Pithing Needle
3 Armageddon
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Krosan Grip
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog

The boarding plan is usually this: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Maze of Ith, -1 Scavenging Ooze, -1 Stoneforge Mystic-> +3 Armageddon, +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

Armageddon wrecks them good. If you got anything that can deal 3+ damage per attack phase, you can use Armageddon without problems (works better when they're tapped or half-tapped). Pithing Needle on Sensei's Divining Top and Jace, the Mindsculptor is awesome, as well. They are a lot less scary without Top. I've been using Thrun in Elspeth's slot, but Thrun fly away with Terminus, so it was cut. Elspeth isn't a big deal as a 1-of, but when she comes, she's fine.

Moved the #2 Gaddock Teeg to mainboard, as the first one dies OFTEN. Moreover, added Sword of Fire and Ice and 1 Stoneforge Mystic to grab it. Scryb Ranger is good, but she only diserve 1 slot main deck.

Questions: Should I cut the sword and Stoneforge for Jitte #2 and 1 Elspeth? I don't like the Planeswalker in some matches, but she's fine against control.

Should Surgical Extraction be something else? Tormod's Crypt maybe?

Should Path to Exile be upped to 3, or 2 is good enough against RUG?

[angel882]

Hi, I'm planning to play this list on next sunday.

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sylvan Library

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept heath
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Savannah
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Maze of Ith

SB:
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Choke
2 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crop Rotation
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

What do you board in/out against UW Miracle, UWx Stoneblade, Maverick, RUG? Should I bring Surgical Extraction in against Miracle cause you can mess up their miracle spells with that?

[Asthereal]

I'd go main -1 Batterskull, +1 Sylvan Library and side -1 Choke, +1 Sylvan Safekeeper.
Batterskull isn't very nice with no SFM on the table, and Safekeeper protects Teeg like a boss, wich is very relevant against Storm and Miracles.

Against RUG Tempo I like additional removal, Choke/Loam. Irrelevant creatures can go out (SFM is not that good, nor is a second or third Pridemage - keep one for potential Mind Harnesses).
Against the mirror you want removal, and things that mess up their creature abilities. You don't play much for that, so I suggest you do all you can to win game 1 and stall out game 2. :eek:
Against Miracles you want to stick and protect a Teeg. Alternatively Planeswalkers can win games for you. I don't like Surgicals here. Timing them is hard (it's not like they will Personal Tutor for a Terminus, so you never really know when they have something). Surgicals are better against Rest in Peace combo, because they tend to play many Entlightened Tutors.
Against StoneBlade you can try Surgicals for Snapcaster targets, and perhaps Oblivion Ring to eat Jace.

[door]

Questions: Should I cut the sword and Stoneforge for Jitte #2 and 1 Elspeth? I don't like the Planeswalker in some matches, but she's fine against control.

Should Surgical Extraction be something else? Tormod's Crypt maybe?

Should Path to Exile be upped to 3, or 2 is good enough against RUG?

Surgicals are also good against miracles. You can shuffle away their terminus if you see they are preparing to wipe the board. Extracting their StPs is always blasting also. Krosan grip is good at blowing their SDTs. They usually side disenchants against theoretical chokes and thus can destroy pithing needle. I'd side out umezawa's jitte and qasali pridemage. Mystic is good at finding your sword and putting it into play, so why siding it out?

[Asthereal]

Why side out Pridemage against Miracles?
They tend to play Counterbalance and sometimes Shackles.
I'd take out a selection of Scavenging Ooze, Stoneforge Mystics and Jittes.

Surgical for StP could work. But against good players it'll prove really hard to use Surgical to stop Terminus.

[door]

Counterbalance should not be a problem if you run Caverns and Zeniths and usually is sided out. Have not ever heard about Shackles in miracles. Even if you're playing against a pro, a SE will always find a target, be it Brainstorm or something in responce to Snapcaster.

[Asthereal]

Come to think of it, against Miracles we have quite a number of cards that don't really do much.
StP usually has very little targets, apart from Entreat tokens, but they come in great numbers, so one StP won't do much good.
Probably there's space enough to side in half your board anyway, so Surgicals should definitely come in as well then.

[Koby]

I just want to nip the bud before it grows any bigger.

Do not play Rest In Peace in your Sideboard.

If I need to explain why, then you need to re-read from Page 1.

[KobeBryan]

I just want to nip the bud before it grows any bigger.

Do not play Rest In Peace in your Sideboard.

If I need to explain why, then you need to re-read from Page 1.

you can...you will just have 4 2/2 cards that help you search lands

[matunos]

you can...you will just have 4 2/2 cards that help you search lands

While we're at it, why not throw a Moat in there too?

[useL]

I just want to nip the bud before it grows any bigger.

Do not play Rest In Peace in your Sideboard.

If I need to explain why, then you need to re-read from Page 1.

Who does this? Hurts my eyes to read something like this.

By the way, should I post another report here or do you still think that G/W without the black splash is worthless? I wont bother if you're not interested. Went 4-0 tonight against Zombardment, Spiral Tide, Goblins and OmniShow.

[matunos]

FWIW, my current SB tech against Miracles:

Krosan Grip
Gaddock Teeg (1 main, 1 SB)
Luminarch Ascension
Stony Silence
Choke
Armageddon

[Koby]

I still think that GW Maverick has enough merits without additional splashes. GW/b is closer to Junk than it is Maverick and extra spells don't make up for consistency lost. Post reports at leisure!

I've been trying something new against Miracles in testing: Silence.
I've been a big fan of multiple purposed cards in this deck. Particularly ones that address multiple bad matchups, such as Combo and hard-control. Miracle is still a trigger, so you can always respond by "Shhhhhh no spells for you!". It's a nice time-walk when you just need another turn too.

EDIT: I want to point out that this was super not so secret tech borrowed from D&T from like 3 years ago, and courtesy of Blazelix.

[Esper3k]

I still think that GW Maverick has enough merits without additional splashes. GW/b is closer to Junk than it is Maverick and extra spells don't make up for consistency lost. Post reports at leisure!

I've been trying something new against Miracles in testing: Silence.
I've been a big fan of multiple purposed cards in this deck. Particularly ones that address multiple bad matchups, such as Combo and hard-control. Miracle is still a trigger, so you can always respond by "Shhhhhh no spells for you!". It's a nice time-walk when you just need another turn too.

EDIT: I want to point out that this was super not so secret tech borrowed from D&T from like 3 years ago, and courtesy of Blazelix.

Is Silence better than Chant? Since you'd be bringing in Chant against Storm decks anyways, you could conceivably draw it on a turn to stall a mass of angry goblins?

[allek]

3-1 to third place out of 32 in a competitive meta today. Won against BW Deadguy, Junk and UW Miracles, lost against ANT with my opponent winning on his T2 (he's on the play) and me stalling on plains + bojuka bog G2 and never seeing a third mana-giving land. Kept a shaky but promising mulligan to six consisting of Thalia, GSZ, MoR, Bog, Plains and Hierarch. A forest would have enabled GSZ -> Gaddock / Ichneumon Druid but I drew Dryad Arbor which he killed followed by Cradle which sucked since he had Dread of Night in play to kill the only creatures I could play. Oh well.

This deck might benefit from a light black splash (shaman looks awesome) but that does not turn this deck info Junk/The Rock, keep this thread on topic folks! Maverick plays 24-28 creatures and hardly any sorcery-/instantbased disruption, unlike Junk which has a smaller creature suite and lots of removal and disruption.

Btw, I'm testing Captain Sisay and liking it a lot, it breaks stalemates against other creature decks and fetches all relevant cards against U/W Miracles. Also, it's a great card to help you recover from after a sweeper.

[angel882]

I'd go main -1 Batterskull, +1 Sylvan Library and side -1 Choke, +1 Sylvan Safekeeper.
Batterskull isn't very nice with no SFM on the table, and Safekeeper protects Teeg like a boss, wich is very relevant against Storm and Miracles.

Against RUG Tempo I like additional removal, Choke/Loam. Irrelevant creatures can go out (SFM is not that good, nor is a second or third Pridemage - keep one for potential Mind Harnesses).
Against the mirror you want removal, and things that mess up their creature abilities. You don't play much for that, so I suggest you do all you can to win game 1 and stall out game 2. :eek:
Against Miracles you want to stick and protect a Teeg. Alternatively Planeswalkers can win games for you. I don't like Surgicals here. Timing them is hard (it's not like they will Personal Tutor for a Terminus, so you never really know when they have something). Surgicals are better against Rest in Peace combo, because they tend to play many Entlightened Tutors.
Against StoneBlade you can try Surgicals for Snapcaster targets, and perhaps Oblivion Ring to eat Jace.

Hi, Batteskull is there for RUG, Goblin, Burn, UW decks and other controls. I know it 's not played these days but it has been great to me. So that's why it's little hard for me to cut it. Does anyone else play Batterskull and got similar results?

I'm also interested what kind of list you are playing Koby?

[maktus]

Hi, Batteskull is there for RUG, Goblin, Burn, UW decks and other controls. I know it 's not played these days but it has been great to me. So that's why it's little hard for me to cut it. Does anyone else play Batterskull and got similar results?

I'm also interested what kind of list you are playing Koby?

I think to use batterskull you need at least 3 stoneforges. I like stoneforge because you can respond his triggered ability after a show and tell and destroy omniscience with qasali, if it is already in play.

[useL]

I think to use batterskull you need at least 3 stoneforges. I like stoneforge because you can respond his the triggered ability after a show and tell and destroy omniscience with qasali, if it is already in play.

What? You can respond to Stoneforges triggered ability by destroying omniscience with qasali? What?

[Lorenzo767]

What? You can respond to Stoneforges triggered ability by destroying omniscience with qasali? What?
If your opponent play Show and Tell and he put into play Omniscience if you put into play Stoneforge, the triggered ability of her will give you priority before your opponent can use Omniscience to cast any creatures or sorcery spells

[kai_nsane]

@Lorenzo767: If you cheat in SFM with an opponents S&T you get priority and you are able do destroy Omniscience with a qasali (If QPM is on the field). Without SFM your opponent gets priority. Right?

I also play with Batterskull. It's not really helpfull against S&T and Miracle, but against many MU' (ob. creature based mus') it's a very good card.

My List looks like:
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
4x Kotr
2x Qasali
2x Ooze
4x Thalia
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Teeg
3x SFM

4x GSZ
4x StP
1x Sylvan Library
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Batterskull

3x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wastelands
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Forest
2x Cos
1x Plains
1x Maze of Ith
1x Karakas
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Gaeas Cradle
1x Dryad Arbor

SB:
1x Bojuka Bog (Dredge)
1x Gaddock Teeg (Miracle, Tezzeret Control, Storm, Hivemind)
1x Sylvan Safekeeper (Teeg Prot)
2x O-Ring// UW Ring (Allzweck Removal, Show and Tell)
2x Etutor (Toolbox)
1x Dueling Grounds (Gobbos, Swarmdecks)
1x Ethersworn Canonist (Storm, Elves)
1x Torpor Orb (Goblins)
1x Pithing Needle (PW, Artefactmana Lotus Petal)
1x Tormods Crypt (Dredge)
1x Nevermore (EtA, Stormfinisher, Pox, Hivemind, )
2x Surgical Extraction (Canadian, Miracle, SnT)

My boarding plans:
RUG : +2Surgicals, -Teeg -qasali

Miracle: +Teeg, +Sylvan Safekeeper, +2Oring, +Needle, +2x Etutor, +Nevermore, -4StP -Batterskull -2SFM +2surgical -Jitte -Scryb Ranger -1Noble
I try do get Teeg with protection online (MoR Sylvan Safekeeper), Nevermore is against Jace, Entreat or Terminus, Needle against Top or Jace, Oring against opponents Oring, Jace or something. Maybe get lucky and hit a Jace or Entreat with Sword of Feast and Famine and Surgical it.

Omnishit: +Nevermore +2etutor +2Surgical +2Oring
Try to answer SnT with Oring/QPM. Maybe Wasteland his Lands and surgical it.

Goblins: +Torpor Orb +Dueling Grounds +2Etutor +2Orings -4Thalias -Teeg -Scyrb Ranger
A hard battle imo. I try to land many creatures and beat him down. Burn his gobboy with Jitte or get life with Batterskull are effective imo. After sideboarding it looks better. Torpor Orb is not bad, but the Goblins add many artifact hate. With Maze and Dueling Grounds its probably gg. Only Sharpshoot+Krenko+Skirk Prospector alltogether are a problem.

Stoneblade: I'm not sure what i should board. I play only 1 time against this Deck. I probably would add Teeg, Orings, Torpor Orb, Etutor and Surgical, but i dont know what to cut. Maybe 2 STP, but then i have no ideas.

Storm: +Teeg, +Sylvan Safekeeper, +Pithing Needle ,+Ethersworn +Nevermore +2 Etutor +2Surgicals +2Orings -2SFM -Batterskull -SwordFaF -Scryb Ranger -2Ooze -4STP
Try to get Teeg or Ethersworn very fast online. Destroy Dread of Night with Oring or QPM.

What do you think?

[Lorenzo767]

@Lorenzo767: If you cheat in SFM with an opponents S&T you get priority and you are able do destroy Omniscience with a qasali (If QPM is on the field). Without SFM your opponent gets priority. Right?-
Yes, the same is true for any permanent with ability the triggers when it comes into play! ( O. Ring, Bokuja Bog, etc.)

About your SB: i don't like the E.Tutor package especially vs Miracle or Omnitell, they can easely play around your cards and counters will cause you to make cards and tempo disadvantage.

[kai_nsane]

I think Etutor is the best way, to be prepared in an unpredictable meta. It has answers to the most MU's. (Crypt against Dredge, Dueling Grounds against Gobbos, Ethersworn against Storm and so on)

What would you put in SB against Omni and Miracle?

[Koby]

I think Etutor is the best way, to be prepared in an unpredictable meta. It has answers to the most MU's. (Crypt against Dredge, Dueling Grounds against Gobbos, Ethersworn against Storm and so on)

What would you put in SB against Omni and Miracle?

Harmonic Sliver, O-Ring, and Silence/Chant. Stopping them from playing spells is a good way to win games. We can deal with Omni's creatures relatively easily, but it's the Burning Wish plan that hurts us. Against Miracles, keeping up pressure and preventing Miracles from being cast are the way to win. Planeswalkers also work, but very unlikely to resolve.

[angel882]

I was thinking isn't Batterskull good against Miracles because if they play Terminus you just return Batterskull back to your hand and replay it.

[Koby]

I was thinking isn't Batterskull good against Miracles because if they play Terminus you just return Batterskull back to your hand and replay it.

Same concern as Planeswalkers, they see it and can anticipate it by countering it (rebounce that is). It might work, so YMMV. Stoneforge Mystic might be a good plan however.

[sauce]

Gaddock teeg protected by Mom is your best bet vs Miracles.

[Koby]

Gaddock teeg protected by Mom is your best bet vs Miracles.

This is true, but there's plenty of other dead cards to fill in too.

-4 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Scavenging Ooze
-X Noble Hierarch

+3-4 Silence
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 SoLS
+2 Planeswalkers/O-ring/whatevers

Reference list, since people can't figure out how to look at my signature:
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Silence
1 Crop Rotation
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Path to Exile
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Gaddock Teeg

[useL]

I have to strongly disagree to lists playing Stoneforge Mystic in todays metagame. If you want to win against tribal you play more Jitte and Linvala. Batterskull seems generally really bad against all aggrodecks (they wasteland, they attack while you t2 play stoneforge, t3 activate, they blow him up or stifle stoneforge ec). Batterskull belongs in a Stoneblade list that can protect it and have the time to clear the board and then put it down again. If we want to win against Miracles it has allready been stated earlier, you need 2 things: Gaddock Teegs and Sylvan Safekeeper. It is quite nice to put down a plainswalker or resolve armageddon also for win more. Ofc you have to also play Caverns to actually resolve your gamebreakers in the first game while they still play Counterbalance. T1 Safekeeper into uncounterable Teeg next turn is often gg right there, 2 card combo.

If you want to try Stoneforge Mystics please go ahead, but when you have it in hand, please ask yourself if it had rather been a Gaddock Teeg, Sylvan Safekeeper, Umezawa's Jitte or a Sylvan Library. These are all viable choices instead because the Stoneforge takes one of the flex slots. I prefer to have that Jitte one turn faster than comitting a turn to getting it into hand against tribal because often you dont have the time. Yes, batterskull gives you life, but does it come into play before you are dead against burn/rug/goblins?

[door]

This is true, but there's plenty of other dead cards to fill in too.

-4 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Scavenging Ooze
-X Noble Hierarch

+3-4 Silence
+1 Gaddock Teeg
+1 SoLS
+2 Planeswalkers/O-ring/whatevers

Reference list, since people can't figure out how to look at my signature:
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Silence
1 Crop Rotation
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Path to Exile
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Gaddock Teeg

why silence? why faeries instead of surgicals?

[Asthereal]

Silence stops Miracle cards from getting cast when they trigger. Silence destroys Storm combo.
Do think that Chants are better though. Time Walking an army of Goblin/Angel tokens might help sometimes.

Using Macabre cannot be countered. That's relevant against Reanimator.
Macabre also takes out two cards in the grave instead of one, which is highly relevant against both Dredge and Reanimator.
Must say that Surgical is better against Storm and various control decks, but I guess Koby uses different cards to win those matchups.

[Esper3k]

why silence? why faeries instead of surgicals?

Faerie is uncounterable and fetchable with Fauna Shaman. Also, you can recur it with SoLS.

[Esper3k]

What we really need is a Manland that has Hexproof or Shroud, heh.

[Koby]

I mentioned it before, yes Orim's Chant and Silence are interchangeable. The Silence effect is the important part, not the fog effect.

Faerie Macabre over Surgical is strictly for Dredge matchups, since Surgical isn't enough against a fast Dredge LED opener. Macabre can usually stop it by eliminating a few dredgers to give give for the deck to setup an Ooze. Ooze is the main way to beat Dredge, but you need a way to survive to turn 2-3 to get it active. It's also better against Reanimator. (both these decks are present in my metagame)

Storm is fairly straightforward to beat. Thalia backed with Silence is more or less better than Surgical.

The key with sideboard cards is that they need to serve multiple purposes across multiple matchups. We don't have the luxury of playing with Angel's Grace anymore.

[door]

I mentioned it before, yes Orim's Chant and Silence are interchangeable. The Silence effect is the important part, not the fog effect.

Faerie Macabre over Surgical is strictly for Dredge matchups, since Surgical isn't enough against a fast Dredge LED opener. Macabre can usually stop it by eliminating a few dredgers to give give for the deck to setup an Ooze. Ooze is the main way to beat Dredge, but you need a way to survive to turn 2-3 to get it active. It's also better against Reanimator. (both these decks are present in my metagame)

Storm is fairly straightforward to beat. Thalia backed with Silence is more or less better than Surgical.

The key with sideboard cards is that they need to serve multiple purposes across multiple matchups. We don't have the luxury of playing with Angel's Grace anymore.

Though I understand your reasoning, I can't agree with it. Sitting with silence against storm is the worst thing I can imagine. Today they play 10-12 ways to look inside your hand. On the other side, what's your plan? Do you pass the turn if your starting hand is silence, mother of runes, noble hierarch, green sun and lands? I'd rather play Mindbreak Trap which is 100% better and can be played on your turn 0. Because Silence against Miracles is even more strange to me. Additional Gaddock Teeg and/or pithing needle for their Top are better all the way in the early and late game. Would you play surgicals, they'd surve you really well in Miracles match-up as well. But I guess dredge is more dangenerous in your meta.

[Asthereal]

First: they board out half the 'look at your hand' stuff. And if they have you discard the Chant, you might get Zenith into Teeg through.
Second: when has Mindbreak Trap ever done anything for us against Miracles?
Trap is extremely narrow, that's why some people are now trying Chant effects.

[Koby]

Though I understand your reasoning, I can't agree with it. Sitting with silence against storm is the worst thing I can imagine. Today they play 10-12 ways to look inside your hand. On the other side, what's your plan? Do you pass the turn if your starting hand is silence, mother of runes, noble hierarch, green sun and lands? I'd rather play Mindbreak Trap which is 100% better and can be played on your turn 0. Because Silence against Miracles is even more strange to me. Additional Gaddock Teeg and/or pithing needle for their Top are better all the way in the early and late game. Would you play surgicals, they'd surve you really well in Miracles match-up as well. But I guess dredge is more dangenerous in your meta.

If you peek at the ANT thread, they are formulating a plan to board out the discard in favor for Abrupt Decay and bounce. Effectively all the best SB cards for us are permanents, and they have adjusted for that. They might still bring in discard for Game 3, but it's very likely we might nab game 1 with an early Thalia. Thus, having a hate card that's good vs them naturally and attacks at an angle they aren't preparing for will help to get some free wins. Besides, Time Walk is pretty good when we're wastelanding them.

[Jiaozy]

If you peek at the ANT thread, they are formulating a plan to board out the discard in favor for Abrupt Decay and bounce. Effectively all the best SB cards for us are permanents, and they have adjusted for that. They might still bring in discard for Game 3, but it's very likely we might nab game 1 with an early Thalia. Thus, having a hate card that's good vs them naturally and attacks at an angle they aren't preparing for will help to get some free wins. Besides, Time Walk is pretty good when we're wastelanding them.Why would they side in bounce and Decays when a Dread of Night does everything a Decay can do, but extremely better?
A single Dread of Night takes care of all the Thalia and Mother of Runes in your deck, for just 1 (maybe 2) mana.

THAT is the card you have to worry about, NOT Decay or Bounce.
Because double Dread of Night means you can't even play Pride-Mage to deal with them and that none of your hate-bears survives.

For that MU I'd much rather side in Gaddocks (you must play at least 3 between MD or SB if you want to have any hope against Miracle, without those leave the deckin your backpack), Canonist, KGrip for Dread of Night and maybe Tormod's Crypt.
Given that Thalia + Mother of Runes is your best bet against them, I really don't see why in the world you'd want to keep 2 mana up at any given time for a Chant when you'd be better served by spending them to try and put a short clock on the table rathen than HELP them by playing the waiting game!

But Storm is NOT the reason why the deck is doing poorly, the reasons are Miracle, Goblins, S&T decks and BUG to which the deck has next to no answers and awful MUs.

[Namida]

Why would they side in bounce and Decays when a Dread of Night does everything a Decay can do, but extremely better?
A single Dread of Night takes care of all the Thalia and Mother of Runes in your deck, for just 1 (maybe 2) mana.

Miracles have caused Maverick to lose popularity, so Dread of Night is a narrow answer against a seemingly declining deck. Meanwhile, that same Miracles deck plays Counterbalance, which just fucks up Storm players. Abrupt Decay is a general answer that is good for both match-ups.

[lordofthepit]

Sitting with silence against storm is the worst thing I can imagine.

Back when I played primarily Zoo and Storm, Orim's Chant was probably the most devastating card that could be played against me as a Storm player after turn 1. Granted, holding up a mana is pretty annoying, but an Orim's Chant prevents ANT from winning and completely shuts off Ill-Gotten Gains even if discarded.

I occasionally ran it in my Zoo deck when Storm was the only bad matchup it had in the metagame, but it was pretty narrow. Not sure Terminus is enough to justify its inclusion.

[Esper3k]

Why would they side in bounce and Decays when a Dread of Night does everything a Decay can do, but extremely better?
A single Dread of Night takes care of all the Thalia and Mother of Runes in your deck, for just 1 (maybe 2) mana.

THAT is the card you have to worry about, NOT Decay or Bounce.
Because double Dread of Night means you can't even play Pride-Mage to deal with them and that none of your hate-bears survives.

For that MU I'd much rather side in Gaddocks (you must play at least 3 between MD or SB if you want to have any hope against Miracle, without those leave the deckin your backpack), Canonist, KGrip for Dread of Night and maybe Tormod's Crypt.
Given that Thalia + Mother of Runes is your best bet against them, I really don't see why in the world you'd want to keep 2 mana up at any given time for a Chant when you'd be better served by spending them to try and put a short clock on the table rathen than HELP them by playing the waiting game!

But Storm is NOT the reason why the deck is doing poorly, the reasons are Miracle, Goblins, S&T decks and BUG to which the deck has next to no answers and awful MUs.

Dread of Night also doesn't deal with Teeg and Canonist on it's own?

[Jiaozy]

Miracles have caused Maverick to lose popularity, so Dread of Night is a narrow answer against a seemingly declining deck. Meanwhile, that same Miracles deck plays Counterbalance, which just fucks up Storm players. Abrupt Decay is a general answer that is good for both match-ups.They simply can't afford SBing in 7 or 8 cards, with a SB like this one (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9426&iddeck=68844) you just need the 4 Dread of Nights for Maverick and can side in the 3 Decays if you feel like taking out all the discard, but they're not needed.
Back when I played primarily Zoo and Storm, Orim's Chant was probably the most devastating card that could be played against me as a Storm player after turn 1. Granted, holding up a mana is pretty annoying, but an Orim's Chant prevents ANT from winning and completely shuts off Ill-Gotten Gains even if discarded.

I occasionally ran it in my Zoo deck when Storm was the only bad matchup it had in the metagame, but it was pretty narrow. Not sure Terminus is enough to justify its inclusion.Back when I started playing Type 2 Ishan's Shade was probably the most devastating card you could play against a control deck, should we consider them against Miracle? :really:

A deck with a 3-4 turn clock that played no Thalia and had all of its spell cost 2 or less could afford to play Chant because simply buying a turn by randomly Chanting the opponent could win the game because it could attack for 4-6 damage on turn 3, this deck doesn't have a fast clock AND plays Thalia, so keeping two mana up all the time is pointless because it doesn't help the game plan of the deck.
Dread of Night also doesn't deal with Teeg and Canonist on it's own?It doesn't but only one deals with Thalias and Mother of Runes for 2 mana (much less than the 6 you'd need to deal with ONLY Thalia if Mom is in play) and finding a second one is very easy playing something between 16 and 20 cantrip and Infernal Tutor.

[Philipp2293]

Yesterday I won a really nice english Moat at the 2nd Legacy Open Graz. My list was:

4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothulls
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Karakas

4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thalia
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Swords
4 GSZ
2 Sylvan
2 Jitte
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Path to Exile

SB:

2 Elspeth, Knight Errand
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Path to Exile
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Linvala
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Crucible of Worlds

I played against:

Combo Elves 2:0 - really inexperienced pilot
Belcher 1:2 - I actually won G1 cause I was on the play and he only made 10 Tokens on his first turn, Games 2 and 3 I always had the turn 2 hatepiece in hand, but he made 10 / 14 tokens on his first turn which I could not race this time
RUG Delver 2:1
RUG Delver 2:0
UWr Miracleblade 2:0

So I'm 4th heading into top 8

T8 RUG Delver (same guy as round 4 and actually one of my better magic friends) 2:1
T4 LEDless Dredge 2:1
Finals (Untimed) Esperblade 2:1 - I was too greedy game 1 and got punished for it, won G2 on the back of Elspeth and Garruk, and then G3 was a real grind which took roughly 80 minutes. I had him in a solid lock with Crucible + Waste as well as Thalia and Thorn out. He managed to nuke my board several times, even when I had Teeg later on, since he runs Perish in his SB, and stall the board with Stoneforge/Equipments. He then nearly managed to win with Souls tokens equipped with Skull/Jitte, Maze of Ith really worked overtimes here. After all I was able to punch through exactly for lethal with a Mother protected Ooze. What an epic Game.

As for my list, the Garruk Slot in the MD is still in question, might as well be any other card, maybe there are some suggestions out there (I play in a really blue Meta btw, both tempo and control wise). In the SB the Maze was golden both against RUG as well as against Esperblade.

Regards

[TarmoX]

Yesterday I won a really nice english Moat at the 2nd Legacy Open Graz. My list was:

4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothulls
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Karakas

4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thalia
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Swords
4 GSZ
2 Sylvan
2 Jitte
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Path to Exile

SB:

2 Elspeth, Knight Errand
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Path to Exile
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Linvala
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Crucible of Worlds

I played against:

Combo Elves 2:0 - really inexperienced pilot
Belcher 1:2 - I actually won G1 cause I was on the play and he only made 10 Tokens on his first turn, Games 2 and 3 I always had the turn 2 hatepiece in hand, but he made 10 / 14 tokens on his first turn which I could not race this time
RUG Delver 2:1
RUG Delver 2:0
UWr Miracleblade 2:0

So I'm 4th heading into top 8

T8 RUG Delver (same guy as round 4 and actually one of my better magic friends) 2:1
T4 LEDless Dredge 2:1
Finals (Untimed) Esperblade 2:1 - I was too greedy game 1 and got punished for it, won G2 on the back of Elspeth and Garruk, and then G3 was a real grind which took roughly 80 minutes. I had him in a solid lock with Crucible + Waste as well as Thalia and Thorn out. He managed to nuke my board several times, even when I had Teeg later on, since he runs Perish in his SB, and stall the board with Stoneforge/Equipments. He then nearly managed to win with Souls tokens equipped with Skull/Jitte, Maze of Ith really worked overtimes here. After all I was able to punch through exactly for lethal with a Mother protected Ooze. What an epic Game.

As for my list, the Garruk Slot in the MD is still in question, might as well be any other card, maybe there are some suggestions out there (I play in a really blue Meta btw, both tempo and control wise). In the SB the Maze was golden both against RUG as well as against Esperblade.

Regards



GRATZ Philipp :smile:
Switch the Maze of Ith for Garruk; it can be tutored with knight in many situations, i love it!!!

[Jiaozy]

GRATZ Philipp :smile:
Switch the Maze of Ith for Garruk; it can be tutored with knight in many situations, i love it!!!Why would you swap a card that is good against Miracle and the Mirror (Garruk) for a card that isn't good anymore due to the heavy amount of Wasteland played in the MUs where it would be useful (Mirror, Blade)?

Care to elaborate a bit?

[Fatal]

Short report.
Won tournament last weekend with this list:


3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Sylvan Library
1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thrabren
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Terravore
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Savannah
4 Windswepth heath
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
3 Wooded Foothills

SB(15):
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Path to Exile
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gaea's Blessing


MU played against:
2 BUG Tempo(2-0, and 2-1), Dredge(2-0), BG Middle-Aggro Rock(2-0), ID in 5th round with Imperial Painter.
Top4 2-0 against Goblins Rb
Split with Painter.

Thoughts after tournament:
CotV was very handy vs Tempo beeing on play. Even with ADecay running around, lock with CotV + Thalia + wasteland, lock both opponents.
Changes which should be done - 1 PtE -> 1 Engineered Explosives - Early EtW can be devastating. Bi)rds of Paradise -> 4th Hierarch (BoP is useful only with Sword of X and Y)
Gaea's Blessing was meta call slot.

[Julian23]

Gaea's Blessing was meta call slot.

...because it helps against Brain Freeze, I suppose? Truth is, in less than 5% of games, Solidarity/High Tide will actually care about Gaea's Blessing. You're much better off, playing something proactive like Ethersworn Canonist or another copy of Gaddock Teeg. In case you are afraid of bounce spells, remember to grant protection from blue in your mainphase. Thus, they will have to bounce on their turn, further restricting their mana and not allowing to resolve a High Tide first. This of course only applies to situations where you have either 2 Mother of Runes or one Mother + Scryb Ranger. It works pretty well, even against Wipe Away.

[Koby]

...because it helps against Brain Freeze, I suppose? Truth is, in less than 5% of games, Solidarity/High Tide will actually care about Gaea's Blessing. You're much better off, playing something proactive like Ethersworn Canonist or another copy of Gaddock Teeg. In case you are afraid of bounce spells, remember to grant protection from blue in your mainphase. Thus, they will have to bounce on their turn, further restricting their mana and not allowing to resolve a High Tide first. This of course only applies to situations where you have either 2 Mother of Runes or one Mother + Scryb Ranger. It works pretty well, even against Wipe Away.

You don't need 2 Mother of Runes to protect a hate-bear on your turn. Only the one. They would be required to expend their bounce on their turn to deal with the hate bear, and now they are down 2-3 mana, possibly more with Thalia out as well. I once figured this out, mid-match and it was bewildering!

Yes, Gaea's Blessing is rather poor against High Tide decks. Turns out, it's still amazing against Painter/Stone. :laugh:

[Shawn]

You don't need 2 Mother of Runes to protect a hate-bear on your turn. Only the one. They would be required to expend their bounce on their turn to deal with the hate bear, and now they are down 2-3 mana, possibly more with Thalia out as well. I once figured this out, mid-match and it was bewildering!

Pro blue in upkeep so you can replay it if they bounce it with Wipe Away?

[Koby]

Pro blue in upkeep so you can replay it if they bounce it with Wipe Away?

Attack for value (no bounce? OK)
Main Phase 2 - target with Mother of Runes, resolve?
If Yes, pass the turn.
If No, recast.

Obv they can counter it, but that also eats a card in their hand. It's a risk, but they can bounce/counter regardless. This way, it still eats up 3 cards in their hand.

[Julian23]

It gets even better once you land Cavern of Souls to completely neglect their countermagic, even if they bounce.

[useL]

This is the reason why Maverick will not place well on U.S. soil:

http://blip.tv/scglive/20121118-scgsea-lgc-r4b-glen-eggers-vs-michael-eades-6449234


Both the deck list and the plays smell inexperience. When will we see 5-10 experienced europeans travel to a SCG tournament and show whatsup?!

[Fl0do]

This is the reason why Maverick will not place well on U.S. soil:

http://blip.tv/scglive/20121118-scgsea-lgc-r4b-glen-eggers-vs-michael-eades-6449234


Both the deck list and the plays smell inexperience. When will we see 5-10 experienced europeans travel to a SCG tournament and show whatsup?!

Lots of people see Maverick and are thinking "cute deck, but why u no play brainstorm?". Also, playing Maverick properly needs a lot of experience with the deck and the metagame.

[Jiaozy]

Attack for value (no bounce? OK)
Main Phase 2 - target with Mother of Runes, resolve?
If Yes, pass the turn.
If No, recast.

Obv they can counter it, but that also eats a card in their hand. It's a risk, but they can bounce/counter regardless. This way, it still eats up 3 cards in their hand.If you attack with Gaddock you're doing something seriously wrong since they can eat it with Vendilion or Snapcaster or, if you pro-blue with a Mother, just STP it.

[Philipp2293]

I think Koby's comment was directed at the High Tide MU and how to interact with Wipe Away.

[Julian23]

Indeed, we were talking about the Spiral Tide Matchup. You don't wanna be walking your Teeg into a SCM against Miracles.

[264505]

This is the reason why Maverick will not place well on U.S. soil:

http://blip.tv/scglive/20121118-scgsea-lgc-r4b-glen-eggers-vs-michael-eades-6449234


Both the deck list and the plays smell inexperience. When will we see 5-10 experienced europeans travel to a SCG tournament and show whatsup?!

I remember hearing Cedric talk about that on gamestate, but its even more disappointing watching it on video.

[Goosen]

If you attack with Gaddock you're doing something seriously wrong since they can eat it with Vendilion or Snapcaster or, if you pro-blue with a Mother, just STP it.

Read everything and maybe ask if you do not understand rather than criticize. If you do not attack I think you are doing something seriously wrong in that match up. :wink:


Given that Thalia + Mother of Runes is your best bet against them, I really don't see why in the world you'd want to keep 2 mana up at any given time for a Chant when you'd be better served by spending them to try and put a short clock on the table rathen than HELP them by playing the waiting game!

Why keep up 2 mana vs storm? 1 mana is enough because the storm player have to get rid of Thalia before "going off" then you will have a chance to play it for 1.

But I agree with you, Storm is not the reason why Maverick having problems right now.

[useL]

What is the reason Maverick, according to you, has problems? The only problem I see is weak pilots and bad lists.

[Philipp2293]

What is the reason Maverick, according to you, has problems? The only problem I see is weak pilots and bad lists.

Miracles and Omnitell, mostly.

[maktus]

Miracles and Omnitell, mostly.

Against omnitell:
3-4 oblivion ring sb
1 thornscape apprentice md (in place of maze of ith)

Against miracles:
1 gaddock md
1 gaddock sb
1 sylvan safekeeper sb or md
3-4 oblivion ring (jace, batterskull, Humility, rest in peace, energy field + cursed totem, etc)

Has anyone tested these changes?

[Goosen]

What is the reason Maverick, according to you, has problems? The only problem I see is weak pilots and bad lists.

Miracle and more specifically Terminus.

Agree that some are terribly bad at playing and their decklist looks strange. But there is alot of bad players playing other strange decklists aswell. And ofcourse decks that requires more skill will get even worse with a bad player. I think many underestimate Maverick and think it's a simple deck to play. But it requires a good knowledge of the opponent's game plan to play optimally. There are so many different strategies primarily due GSZ and KotR.

If you check out "to much info", Mavericks % winning are dropping. So something have happen for sure. Maybe thats becasue the better players have started playing other decks instead, and if thats the case, why?

Edit:

Regarding Omnitell so do I not think thats the case why Maverick winning % are dropping. Show and Tell decks have allways been a problem for Maverick so not much have change here. And I think I rather play against Omnitell then Sneak and Show, but need a diffrent approach.

[Esper3k]

I remember hearing Cedric talk about that on gamestate, but its even more disappointing watching it on video.

Wow that game 3 was just a travesty...

[Ziveeman]

Miracle and more specifically Terminus.

Agree that some are terribly bad at playing and their decklist looks strange. But there is alot of bad players playing other strange decklists aswell. And ofcourse decks that requires more skill will get even worse with a bad player. I think many underestimate Maverick and think it's a simple deck to play. But it requires a good knowledge of the opponent's game plan to play optimally. There are so many different strategies primarily due GSZ and KotR.

If you check out "to much info", Mavericks % winning are dropping. So something have happen for sure. Maybe thats becasue the better players have started playing other decks instead, and if thats the case, why?

Edit:

Regarding Omnitell so do I not think thats the case why Maverick winning % are dropping. Show and Tell decks have allways been a problem for Maverick so not much have change here. And I think I rather play against Omnitell then Sneak and Show, but need a diffrent approach.

Splashing blue for Envelop (which stop both Show and Tell and Miracle cards) seems like a decent way to fight those decks. Some RUG Delver decks do it and maybe it's not so bad to adopt for Maverick.

[conley1000000]

What is the reason Maverick, according to you, has problems? The only problem I see is weak pilots and bad lists.

Im not disagreeing with this at all. So what does a good European list look like? You cant sit back and say thats doing it wrong without support your doing it right.

[Koby]

Yes, the entire discussion was revolving how to protect hate-bears against Spiral Tide/High Tide decks while still maintaining pressure.

RE: quality of Maverick
It's probably on par with the quality of other SCG players at similar tournaments. Poor at best. Not everyone can be a master.

RE: Bad matchups
* Miracle/Terminus (there are really only about 5-7 cards Maverick cares about in this matchup: 5 miracles and Jace TMS)
* Show & Tell (multiple variations)
* Monoblack Pox

RE: Playing Maverick well
Imagine how the game state will look like in 2-3 turns. Plan your fetches/turns accordingly. Many times, I'll develop a Hierarch over a Mom in a matchup where Mom is more important due to have a shortage of mana. Example: Opening hand of Savannah, Wasteland, Hierarch, Mom -- Savannah/Hierarch is more appropriate in this case.


Splashing blue for Envelop (which stop both Show and Tell and Miracle cards) seems like a decent way to fight those decks. Some RUG Delver decks do it and maybe it's not so bad to adopt for Maverick.

I still like Chant/Silence better, as its on color and has applications against Storm and other odd ball spell-based decks.

RE: Doing it wrong / Euro-USA Lists
Maindeck Path to Exile is doing it wrong.
Playing only 1 Sylvan Library is doing it wrong.

EDIT: didn't finish my sentence at the end.

[sdematt]

I still think you should be playing 2 Sylvan Library. I loved that card all day on Sunday. Same with Gaddock Teeg.

-Matt

[Esper3k]

Big fan of Sylvan Library in Maverick (and in general). It's one of the best cards you can have against control since it's difficult for them to remove and you can usually just pay life for cards without caring.

[Asthereal]

Sylvan Library isn't just good against control. It's a life saver against the mirror and helps to find StP for Delver against Tempo Thresh.

[useL]

Im not disagreeing with this at all. So what does a good European list look like? You cant sit back and say thats doing it wrong without support your doing it right.

Here is my maindeck for my last 4-0 tournament.

21 lands:

4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
3 Cavern of Souls

14 others:

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Relentless

25 creatures:

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence


I have cut all weak utility lands (Horizon Canopy isn't a forest, thus sucks with knight+scryb ranger), Maze of Ith (this is only good in matchups that allready plays wasteland, thus being really weak sacrificing a land to get it and then loosing it, granted it is good offensively as well, but I would rather play a Sylvan library or Linvala or stoneforge than Maze, seing as they are all flex slots)

I have gone to 2 Sylvan Library and 2 Planeswalkers to increase my matches vs Miracle/Esper.

I have gone up to 2 Qasali Pridemage to win the mirror and against OmniShow

I now play Linvala main to win the midrange fights and tribals (my meta is filled with Oozes, Knights, Moms, goblins, elves)

I also picked up a Stoneforge Mystic to find Jitte in midrange and control games.

My sideboard is divided into 3 techs: miracles (teeg, pithing needles, one more elspeth), storm (thorn of amethyst, crop rotation -> bog), tribal (removal) and a couple of Krosan Grip for the diverse meta.

It is indeed about playing the deck well, I am not saying I'm the best pilot out there, I picked up this deck maybe 6 months ago, but I have played BANT in 2 GP's and the operating is quite similar. My last game last Tuesday I sat with a Knight untapped for 3 whole turns instead of crashing into my storm opponent for 6 each turn and instead hitting with a dryad arbor or hierarch because I knew that when I tapped my Knight it would be lights out since I could not remove his GY for treshhold/ill-gotten gains/past in flames. I am quite sure that a less experienced player maybe would go for the kill instead and this would have been the game since he had a grip full of answers to a tapped knight.

The changes I made to my stock list was crucial. I got to resolve Sylvan Library in the mirror and find Qasali for his hatebear naming Mother of Runes. If I were to make any changes it would be to cut a planeswalker or the Stoneforge to go up one Scryb Ranger, its just the best card in the deck together with Mom or Knight or ramping into planeswalker/jitte-swing etc.

[Asthereal]

My list looks quite similar. The many Storm decks in my meta have made me drop the Walkers in favor of a fourth Thalia and an additional Pridemage (utility and a reasonable clock). The SFM is a second Scryb Ranger in my list. Furthermore I don't own Caverns :tongue: so I have a third Forest and additional fetchlands to increase the stability of my mana base. I have also dropped Canopy. The Cradle is a Maze of Ith in my list. My curve is lower, so there is less need for a Cradle.

My sideboard still needs some work. Right now I have:
3 Chant
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Spike Feeder
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Thrun, the Last Troll (still good against control)

The Oblivion Rings have a lot of work eating Show and Tell targets and Planeswalkers. So far they have helped a lot.

[useL]

The Cradle is a Maze of Ith in my list. My curve is lower, so there is less need for a Cradle.



I always tend to love the Cradle when it shows up, using it with Scavenging Ooze or being able to zenith up a knight tapping just one land is fantastic. Or even being able to pay for spell pierce even though the opponent thinks it is impossible is quite worth while. Consider this the next time you pick up the deck, would I want my Maze of Ith to be a Umezawa's Jitte? I asked myself that a lot of times and came up with that I really want that Stoneforge as a third Jitte.

[Jiaozy]

Why Spike Feeder over Kitchen Finks? Is there any reason other than nostalgia?

[Goosen]

I have gone up to 2 Qasali Pridemage to win the mirror and against OmniShow

I now play Linvala main to win the midrange fights and tribals (my meta is filled with Oozes, Knights, Moms, goblins, elves)

I also picked up a Stoneforge Mystic to find Jitte in midrange and control games.

I think Pridemage should be 2 or 3 no more no less, 2 is a fine number.

Linvala main, I like it in the right meta, I use to maindeck one too.

A little bit funny, not more then I couple replays ago you didnt like stoneforge. ;-) I have mixed feelings but maybe just one is fine. And I dont say player that are playing a sword of something is wrong either. But starting playing Batterskull is just bad.

Before when I used to play a Linvala and a Stoneforge main I played a Fauna Shaman aswell. If you are going to main deck a Linvala I think is right to cut a planeswalker.

Why just 3 wastelands? I know they are not great in some match ups but sick good in others, would not play anything but a full playset.

Guess I would cut a PW for a Fauna Shaman atleist and get in that last Wasteland.


My sideboard is divided into 3 techs: miracles (teeg, pithing needles, one more elspeth), storm (thorn of amethyst, crop rotation -> bog), tribal (removal) and a couple of Krosan Grip for the diverse meta.

One more planeswalker, you seems to love them. :-)



My last game last Tuesday I sat with a Knight untapped for 3 whole turns instead of crashing into my storm opponent for 6 each turn and instead hitting with a dryad arbor or hierarch because I knew that when I tapped my Knight it would be lights out since I could not remove his GY for treshhold/ill-gotten gains/past in flames. I am quite sure that a less experienced player maybe would go for the kill instead and this would have been the game since he had a grip full of answers to a tapped knight.

Guess you made the right play but would love to get more info. Lifes? How many cards in his hand? What cards was on the board? How big was KotR? :-)

[Asthereal]

Against Burn gaining 4 life immidiately makes a lot of difference.
Furthermore, Spike Feeder is pretty awesome against Dredge, removing bridges.
He is a lot better with SoLaS though, so since I don't play that one anymore, perhaps the Feeder should be cut.

[nicoleptik]

Why Spike Feeder over Kitchen Finks? Is there any reason other than nostalgia?

For the Burn MU, where Kitchen Finks often gains you only 2 lives, cause the Burn player won't kill it.

[Goosen]

Against Burn gaining 4 life immidiately makes a lot of difference.
Furthermore, Spike Feeder is pretty awesome against Dredge, removing bridges.
He is a lot better with SoLaS though, so since I don't play that one anymore, perhaps the Feeder should be cut.

Dredge: Sure if you draw it but if you have GSZ for it, you are better GSZ for Ooze.(most likely a turn before aswell)

If you play SoLaS you will get enough life against burn, and jitte is even better in that regard.

[Asthereal]

Usually Ooze will seal the deal for you, but sometimes you need to get rid of several bridges asap.
It's not brilliant, but Feeder has some advantages which make me favor him over Finks right now.

[Jiaozy]

For the Burn MU, where Kitchen Finks often gains you only 2 lives, cause the Burn player won't kill it.In the burn MU Finks is A LOT better, blocking and killing Goblin Guide or Keldon Marauder, then coming back to block again and kill another Guide or Marauder, netting you something like 8-10 life (2 entering, 2-3 blocking, 2 re-entering and another 2-3 blocking) and removing 1 or 2 dudes.

With Feeder you can't even kill the Guide because you'd never gain life...

SoLaS is so bad I didn't even consider it as a card for the deck, but again, Finks would be a lot better because it can actually kill something AND make you gain life!

[sdematt]

SoLaS is so bad I didn't even consider it as a card for the deck, but again, Finks would be a lot better because it can actually kill something AND make you gain life!

What context are you determining this for, the Burn matchup? SoLaS is not the greatest in the Burn matchup for sure, but you shouldn't discount it for the Miracles matchup. Turning any creature into a pro-Swords to Plowshares guy isn't bad at all.

-Matt

[Koby]

SoLaS is pretty fucking good in the following matchups:

Deadguy Ale
Maverick
Miracles
Death & Taxes

It's decent in the following:
Burn/RDW
Dredge (pro:zombies)

I'd say it's worth the slot in the 75, but right now better off in the sideboard. I run it even without SFM, but I may start to include SFM afterall with how bad the Miracles matchup is. It only recently came out as it were.

[Goosen]

SoLaS is so bad I didn't even consider it as a card for the deck...

Its not that bad. SoLaS on teeg is really good against Miracles. :-)

Note: I am not saying that you should play it.

[Jiaozy]

What context are you determining this for, the Burn matchup? SoLaS is not the greatest in the Burn matchup for sure, but you shouldn't discount it for the Miracles matchup. Turning any creature into a pro-Swords to Plowshares guy isn't bad at all.

-Matt
SoLaS is pretty fucking good in the following matchups:

Deadguy Ale
Maverick
Miracles
Death & Taxes

It's decent in the following:
Burn/RDW
Dredge (pro:zombies)

I'd say it's worth the slot in the 75, but right now better off in the sideboard. I run it even without SFM, but I may start to include SFM afterall with how bad the Miracles matchup is. It only recently came out as it were.The concept that a Sword is good when it protects from removal is so wrong it can't be told by words.

A Sword is good when it makes your dudes unblockable, because if they can't remove it but it can be blocked by anything on the table, the sword does nothing.
Having good triggered abilities is just icing on the cake.

In the current meta, there are only two swords worth playing: Feast and Famine and Body and Mind.

Feast and Famine is, as of now, the best one because it gives protection from the most popular creatures (green ones) and a few removal, while having two awesome abilities.

Body and Mind gives awesome evasion by making all those Snapcasters, Vendilion, Delver, Mongeese, Goyfs and Reliquary look sad while you swing trough, all of this while having a decent ability by leaving a body to which you can equip the sword again (and then block all those dudes) or that can chumpblock and buy you time.

All of the others are far inferior and even those two Swords are inferior to Jitte because this deck DOES NOT need a Sword.
Sure, you can play it as an overkill, but it's totally not needed because, unlike Stoneblade, this deck plays dudes that are bigger than X/2 and can trump the opposing blockers and don't need evasion.

If the reasoning is "SoLaS is good because it protects from STP" then PLEASE play Lightning Greaves in its place, because against Miracle they're exactly the same: gaining life against them is pointless and recurring creature from the GY with them playing Terminus (puts on bottom), Swords to Plowshares (exiles) and Path to Exile (exiles) is basically impossible.

As for SoLaS being good in the mirror, say hello to my Dryad Arbor + Scryb Ranger lock, to my Ooze eating your dudes and to my HIERARCH blocking your dudes.
In all those scenario, your sword does nothing while a F&F or B&M would've let you connect and trigger some good abilities because in the mirror, in case it's gone unnoticed, leaving your opponent empty handed while doubling your mana seems good and milling them (more Ooze fodder) while doing additional blockers/attackers is at least nice.

I repeat, in THIS metagame SoL&S is VERY BAD because the protection are pointless and the abilities do nothing.

If Deadguy and Death and Taxes become more popular (and with Orzhov being in the next set, you never know), then the sword of choice will change, but as long as the most played creatures are Blue and Green and the abilities printed on SoLaS do nothing, the card is incredibly bad.

[Koby]

In the current meta, there are only two swords worth playing: Feast and Famine and Body and Mind.


You are mistaken. Look back (about March 2012) to find out why.

Link to the post about it back in March 2012. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20612-DTB-GW-x-Maverick&p=625464&viewfull=1#post625464)

[sdematt]

While your analysis I do agree with, I don't think it's quite as awful as you're making it out to be. You're making it sound like you'd rather run an off-colour, uncastable card than run SOLAS.

I was thinking about the Esper matchup more than the Miracles matchup for some reason (probably because I've got Esperblade stuck in my head from Sunday), so, I'd agree with most of your points. Ish.

-Matt

[conley1000000]

I don't claim to know a lot about this deck but I have had quite a bit success with it. In my opinion there is a base to this deck, a group of core cards that its built from. The flex slots are then meta calls and cards that you feel comfortable with personally. My list is constantly evolving and changing with cards I feel comfortable with playing against the current meta. To me a sfm package including swords seems playable at the moment. Making any guy an immediate threat after a terminus doesn't have much of a downside. Looking at a lot of the Miracle lists I think a must have sb card is Pithing Needle. Other than that its personal opinion. I do like the silence/charm discussion currently because of its diversity into other matches. Discussing card choices is the only way we can improve the Maverick player base. I'd like to see more discussions on how certain cards interact in games to maybe bring light to situations people haven't always seen. Just my .02

[angel882]

I always tend to love the Cradle when it shows up, using it with Scavenging Ooze or being able to zenith up a knight tapping just one land is fantastic. Or even being able to pay for spell pierce even though the opponent thinks it is impossible is quite worth while. Consider this the next time you pick up the deck, would I want my Maze of Ith to be a Umezawa's Jitte? I asked myself that a lot of times and came up with that I really want that Stoneforge as a third Jitte.

Why wouldn't you just play third Jitte. Why play Mystic without Fauna Shaman?

[Jiaozy]

You are mistaken. Look back (about March 2012) to find out why.

Link to the post about it back in March 2012. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20612-DTB-GW-x-Maverick&p=625464&viewfull=1#post625464)Your reasoning is pretty messed up, because the real strength of the protections is to get past blocker, NOT save your dudes from removal, to save your dudes from removal you'd want something like Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots that cost 2 or 3 mana less to play + equip.

SoB&M makes their knight grow, so what?
The wolf you leave behind can chump it or any creature wielding the sword can block it and live to tell the tale.

SoF&F makes them discard AND lets you untap to play another Zenith, a Garruk, Knight or even just move the sword to another creature to block anything they can throw at you.

While your precious SoL&S in that situation does NOTHING.
No, wait, they can't kill your creatures. But they can sure as hell get past them with a decent sword! :laugh:

IF you play the Sword, it is for evasion, if you want protection from removal just put a Lightning Greaves in the SB, THAT would be good against Miracle, not a 5CC equip that just gives pro-white.

Proof of this comes from the RESULTS.
People outside this site realized quickly how the best Sword is Feast and Famine because of the combination of evasion + triggered, it's not just my personal opinion or bias, all I say comes from (mine and clearly everyone else's) tests and results.

[Asthereal]

I only brought up SoLaS because that was why I started to use Spike Feeder and Faerie Macabre back in the day.
Some time ago, the mirror and StoneBlade were the matchup I'd encounter most, and SoLaS is sweet there, giving protection from Knights, StP and the Germ token. Retrieving creatures to create more chump blockers, or get Qasali's back is nice as well. SoLaS is a very good sword. In the current meta I play only Jittes though. Two main and a third side.

[Koby]

@Jiaozy
A lot of your recent comments lead me to believe you dont grasp the basics of this deck. Pick it up and play 20 matches with some of your ideas to realize whats going on.

If the point was evasion alone, then people would play Whispersilk Cloak. Obviously they dont so that reason is not the only reason. There is very little reason to run the equipment if not for the protection. Loxodon Warhammer provides a bigger bonus and de facto evasion but doesnt see play either. Out of the matchups where blocking is important they involve other creature equipment decks like Stoneblade, Lingering Souls, tribals, and the mirror. Its very easy to spot SoWP is unplayable in Legacy because its triggers blow chunks. The other White sword thus becomes the better one for both evasion and the rather useful ability to recur Qasali Pridemage to continue making sure equipment does not stay on the battlefield for your opponent.

SoFF provides one of the least relevant protections for removal and not the best for evasion. If the sole reason to run it is the discard and untapping your lands, then you are playing the wrong deck for SoFF. SoFF fits better in Stoneblade than it does for Maverick. This deck doesnt run counters so keeping mana up is pointless. Deploying more threats when you already have a sword active doesnt seem to do much either. The deck should be deploying treats in a manner that if one resolves and you untap with it, that should be enough to win the game on its own, provided you protect it well. Why else would we be playing Mother of Runes if we didnt care about the protection.

Thus the reasons for playing SoLS is for its protections from both white's most prevalent removal and against Black germ tokens. This was much more important when Stoneblade was seen everywhere than it is now when the premier white removal deck is Miracles. Go ahead and keep playing the SoFF against Miracles and let me know how often your threats keep eating StP and getting chumped by Snapcasters and Stoneforges, and getting bounced by Jace. The only matchup where i would want the SoFF is against slow combo like High Tide and Show n Tell decks. Even there the five or six wasted mana to play and equip the sword doesnt make it spectacular. Im all for new ideas in Maverick, but the preference for variety of swords from idiots that play Path to exile maindeck and run SoFF like some old Standard deck is not new or original. Its just fucking lazy and inbred lists copied from Todd Anderson.

Show me the players that run the equipment and show me their standings and link me to their report. I doubt any of the swords have seen play recently, let alone make a critical play. They just are not good outside of very specific matchups.

Sorry for the typos typing this on my phone.

[lordofthepit]

In Maverick, Jitte >>>>>>> SoLS >> SoFI >> Batterskull > SoFF > SoBM >> SoWP

Edit: If you're still slinging Punishing Fire because you're stuck in 2011 where Thalia and Rest in Peace are not yet real cards and Counterbalance doesn't see any play, then Sword of Feast and Famine is more justifiable. (Shifts it above Batterskull IMO.)

[Fatal]

Agree with Koby, SoLaS was running mostly due to protections (trigger aren't so revelant, I know, but still very good against any BUGs or with Sylvan Library). You forgot about one thing you force any removal while equiping any of your Noble/Scryb/BoP - for sure it gives protection to chump and also give evasion - the fact this sword was playing - it gives all of them - evasion, protection, chump and still sometimes CA.

Saying Solas doesn't give protection and its not a main reason is saying same as MoR do nothing.

Btw I would pointed one thing Lightning Greaves are quite good against Miracle, and other controls - having haste is really very good. I tested version in fauna shaman/Ion'a/Elesh/Retrainer's build as additional protection in SFM toolbox as 1-of.

Btw Retrainer is a human.. :)

[kohulk]

Went a to tournament last sunday and did 3-1, winning UWmiracles but losing a very tight RUG match. I split 3-4 place with a friend of mine, also playing Maverick. Deck is solid, no matter what SCG flashy players say.
UWmiracles --> Is not such a bad match, that people tend to complain about. I mean, seriously, we have all these hate bears / spells to choose. We just have to adupt our SB. Of course it doesn't get better than 55-45 but that's legacy, experience gives more wins than words. So my advice is playtest... and put more gaddock teegs ;)
Omni --> Haven't playtest as much as miracles, but I play tutor package of Fauna Shamans + Enlightened Tutors + GSZ. I just try to make the game last so that I can get them online while slowly eating away life points.

From my experience, playing stoneforge package is way outdated. I personally use Enlightened Tutor package with hate cards.
Path to Exile is not a good choice, run 1 enlightened tutor and go get Jitte. Its just better.
Sylvan Library... used to run 1 but now I have 2 main. I don't have any Pernicious Deed in my meta so I will continue with those two against control. If BUG becomes popular then a PW will be added.
PWs... I'm not sure yet. I used Garruk Relentless and the fight ability doesn't seem that good. Sure in theory it looks good but after playing with it, the second Sylvan Library is way better.