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pingpong
03-05-2013, 10:18 PM
@ BLack

First off im Tyler *waves*

So how do you feel about light and shadow and why not double jitte or jitte fire and ice ??

conley1000000
03-08-2013, 11:54 AM
I like that list. Few tweaks I'd make:
- gaea's cradle looks better than cavern with those oozes and equips, which you always want work earlier against jund
- thorn looks random in sb. I'd change it for smth against jund or surgical extr (which is random as well, but priceless against punishing and more interesting overall). Or may be Elspeth. Otherwise, sb is solid.
- 61 cards - meh.

Good luck!

thanks for the advice, tried the Cradle(pulled the second canopy) and have liked how it plays. Allows for the Thrun I put in replacing the throrn to be GSZ for nicely even with a Thalia out. Tested the list thoroughly and feel very prepared for Sunday...

door
03-08-2013, 12:30 PM
thanks for the advice, tried the Cradle(pulled the second canopy) and have liked how it plays. Allows for the Thrun I put in replacing the throrn to be GSZ for nicely even with a Thalia out. Tested the list thoroughly and feel very prepared for Sunday...

than I'll be cheering for you =)

I don't like Thrun in maverick though. But I guess it's late to change something. At least you tested it and feel good.

Vandalize
03-08-2013, 11:37 PM
I've been toying arround with different Maverick lists, but I always go back to the good old standard. It seems pretty powerful, with the right sideboard.

This is my latest:

Lands [23]
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas

Creatures [25]
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg

Spells [12]
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

Sideboard [15]
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Umezawa's Jitte

This list seems very good against anything that's not Show and Tell. With that much hate post-board, storm gets a lot better. Deathrite Shaman decks are good matchups, and Stoneblade is good if they don't run Rest in Peace.

Any comments or suggestions?

Lord_Mcdonalds
03-08-2013, 11:59 PM
This list seems very good against anything that's not Show and Tell.

No offense, but I think you have to consider show & tell a little bit when your making your lists (unless it's simply not present in your meta...in which case, where do you live and how far is it from me :D)

That aside, the birds of paradise and 2nd scryb ranger stick out , is the birds to simply get a sword through..and what's the second ranger for?

Vandalize
03-09-2013, 12:19 AM
No offense, but I think you have to consider show & tell a little bit when your making your lists (unless it's simply not present in your meta...in which case, where do you live and how far is it from me :D)

That aside, the birds of paradise and 2nd scryb ranger stick out , is the birds to simply get a sword through..and what's the second ranger for?

The birds is to carry the sword, but I might switch back to Noble. I like 2 Scryb Rangers, I don't always like to spend a GSZ to fetch it. It also has Flash, which makes playing it from your hand much more valuable.

Tao
03-09-2013, 01:20 AM
No Dryad Arbor?

Vandalize
03-09-2013, 01:57 AM
No Dryad Arbor?

Forgot it, it's supposed to be there.

Esper3k
03-09-2013, 09:21 AM
Even G1, I think you're alright against Show & Tell. Thalia slows down their cantripping and bombs and the Omniscience kill. Simply holding a Knight in your hand makes it very difficult for them to safely Show & Tell since they have to drop Sneak Attack+Emrakul or Omniscience to get around it.

I'd personally cut the 1-of SFM for something else since you can't regularly find it anyways. Maybe a Thrun or Sigarda to GSZ for.

Asthereal
03-09-2013, 09:37 AM
@Vandalize's list: Going -2 Krosan Grip, +2 Oblivion Ring would already improve the Show&Tell matchup without really messing up the others that much. Perhaps that's a good change to make.

Vandalize
03-09-2013, 10:11 AM
I'd personally cut the 1-of SFM for something else since you can't regularly find it anyways. Maybe a Thrun or Sigarda to GSZ for.

I run 1-of Stoneforge Mystic as Jitte#2 and SoLS#2. He doesn't come up very often, but seems fine when he does.


@Vandalize's list: Going -2 Krosan Grip, +2 Oblivion Ring would already improve the Show&Tell matchup without really messing up the others that much. Perhaps that's a good change to make.

Yeah, that should work. Still, Show and Tell is by far my worst matchup. I'll try the O-Rings.

New list:

Lands [23]
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
1 Karakas

Creatures [25]
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Stoneforge Mystic

Spells [12]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

Sideboard [15]
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Umezawa's Jitte

I'll give this baby a spin. In testings, I found that Path to Exile and Bojuka Bog are the most sided-in cards. Followed closely by the other hatebears (Storm is a thing in my meta).

Asthereal
03-09-2013, 12:47 PM
Do you ever use the Liege for its +1/+1 ability? If not, then you could go -1 Thrun, -2 Liege, +3 Loxodon Smiter in the side. This gives you one more dude that comes into play via opposing discard, and two more dudes that are uncounterable. I'm not sure it's the right call, but it seems the sideboard would become more diverse with this change. Smiters are also nice against decks where you want to side out a lot. Three mana 4/4 dude is nothing to sneeze at, and it's easier to cast than Liege and Thrun.

Ositosupe
03-10-2013, 05:40 AM
I use wilt-leaf liege and not bad; does not destroyed by abrupt decay, enter the battlefield by discarding and in the marginal situations save the humans for enginereed plague.

loxodon is 4/4 for 3 manas but kill with abrupt and don't cause impact in the battlefield when enter... in G/W It is more important the habilities that the muscle, because of it are not played tarmogoyf

Asthereal
03-10-2013, 06:55 AM
Smiters are more generally useable. They are also strong against TempoThresh (unDazeable).
I'm not saying it's the right call, but it's worth looking at, since Maverick needs to have as many sideboard cards as possible that are useable in multiple matchups. My ideal Maverick sideboard has about 35 cards, so we need to shave off quite a few. :tongue:

Ositosupe
03-10-2013, 09:18 AM
The truth is that the option smiter not contemplate, I think with the more ideas the better, I leave my list to see what you think.

3 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Wasteland
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Path to Exile
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Garruk Relentless
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

.:saturno:.
03-10-2013, 09:47 AM
i think the better version of maverick is with red splash for punishing fire.
this is the italian's pro list.

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Savannah
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Punishing Fire
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Life from the Loam
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Arid Mesa

Tao
03-10-2013, 11:28 AM
I think a B splash is the way to go

- Deathrite Shaman is better than Noble Hierarch. Far better. Exalted is nice, but Shaman is nuts.

- Abrupt Decay is better than Swords to Plowshares. It is a bit more difficult to cast but it kills Sylvan Library, Counterbalance, Jitte, Liliana and Aether Vial. There are pretty much no CMC4+ creatures in the meta.

- gives access to 4 Thoughtseize and some Duress post board for the dreaded combo matchup

- With ~10 fetchlands I think you can play DR Shaman and KotR in the same deck, despite their anti-synergy: because a) often you won't have both b) KotR's tutoring is not impacted by DR Shaman (tutored Karakas, Wastelands have enough impact in the right matchups that you don't need that much power) c) KotR can outgrow DR Shaman's land eating relatively quickly and d) once you have KotR in play you do not need DR Shaman for the mana as much anymore

aznepyon7
03-10-2013, 11:45 AM
I think a B splash is the way to go

- Deathrite Shaman is better than Noble Hierarch. Far better. Exalted is nice, but Shaman is nuts.

- Abrupt Decay is better than Swords to Plowshares. It is a bit more difficult to cast but it kills Sylvan Library, Counterbalance, Jitte, Liliana and Aether Vial. There are pretty much no CMC4+ creatures in the meta.

- gives access to 4 Thoughtseize and some Duress post board for the dreaded combo matchup

- With ~10 fetchlands I think you can play DR Shaman and KotR in the same deck, despite their anti-synergy: because a) often you won't have both b) KotR's tutoring is not impacted by DR Shaman (tutored Karakas, Wastelands have enough impact in the right matchups that you don't need that much power) c) KotR can outgrow DR Shaman's land eating relatively quickly and d) once you have KotR in play you do not need DR Shaman for the mana as much anymore

How many DSR do you plan to add? DSR has a problem with other decks playing DSR, preventing you from using one of it's ability as a mana source. It's also weak to GY removal. It's pretty annoying. But I will agree with you, I do think DSR is better than Hierarch, just not sure how much better.

As for 4+ CMC4 creatures: Tombstalker, Bloodbraid Elf, every SnT/Sneak Attack/Reanimator known to mankind. STP is one of the main reasons to play W over B. Abrupt Decay can find a place, but I would caution against thinking it's an STP replacement.

Duress is arguably better than Thoughtseize in the combo matchup. I wouldn't run 4 Thoughseize main decked. IoK can also be just as good. 3-4 split of Thoughtseize/IoK is probably best and what most people run. Less IoK if you run more Abrupt.

Now the bigger question: What to remove?


Also I just want to add (has nothing to do with B splash), I hate Thalia when I play PF.

Tao
03-10-2013, 03:49 PM
- I'd play 4 DR Shaman and 3-4 Decays. Not cut much, just replace Swords with Decay and Hierarch with DR Shaman.

- I don't think you'd ever use Swords against Bloodbraid Elf. " And it certainly isn't good against "every SnT/Sneak Attack/Reanimator known to mankind"... The main advantages are Tombstalker and the Mana cost.

- the mana denial from other DR Shamans is a double edged Sword. It is not only their Shaman denying your mana, it works both ways.

- Thoughtseize / Duress is only SB for Combo matchup. Wouldn't want to play it in the MD.

KobeBryan
03-11-2013, 01:47 AM
how is the matchup against esperblade?

Whats the boarding strategy?

Fatal
03-11-2013, 08:44 AM
Very depends on build of both decks:

I think much better is GW/r then straight GW list in this particular MU. MU is calculated on about tide 50-50. After board its very depends on sb - Zealous Persecution is very nasty, also plague on humans changes tide specially vs straight GW list.

Boarding stategy:
depends on your sideboard - Engineered Explosives and additional Jitte is always worth, also Elspeth, Knight-Errant is good vs heavy removal control. Sometimes recurring wasteland from life from the loam is enough to win this MU. Red Elemental Blast vs Jaces/Cliques and snapcasters (in GW/r list) but MVP are recurring Punishing Fire and Sylvan Library: it kills Liliana, SFM, Tokens, Cliques, and also Jaces second MVP are Qasali Pridemages vs Equipments and Scavenging Ooze which stop (not always) CA from Souls and Snapcaster Mages.

Chokes aren't so effective similar like in BUG MU, since it runs more unblue duals/basics.

Gaddock/MoR/Sylvan Safekeeper look isn't so effective here since it stops only Jaces/FoWs(which they mostly side-out) and some board sweepers like Supreme Verdict, but Esper runs mostly Perish on sb which break the lock - always keep that in mind before goes all-in.

black
03-12-2013, 02:42 AM
@ BLack

First off im Tyler *waves*

So how do you feel about light and shadow and why not double jitte or jitte fire and ice ??

sorry for the late reply! I've been busy with midterms all week XP.

Well, I've been very happy with the sword actually. The pro white allows creatures to get past lingering souls, which i find maverick has a problem with. the pro black is good? its no where near as good as the pro white imo. as far as the abilities go, jitte does the life gain too, so thats a tie. however being able to bring back creature that got abrupt decayed- pretty good.

black
03-12-2013, 02:46 AM
i actually used to run double jitte (do you run that?) , but i switched to the light and shadow solely for the pro-white..

never had the chance to run sword of fire and ice. don't know if the pro-colors are that great in the meta?

Asthereal
03-12-2013, 05:02 AM
SoFaI is really good when Merfolk is a big thing in your meta.
I ran it when I first played this deck, and completely killed the Merfs with it.
It's also brilliant against Sligh and Goblins, and good against any heavy control deck.

Thoughts on the other swords:
Against stuff like Bant, the Mirror, Stoneblade and Deadguy Ale, you should use SoLaS.
SoFaF is big against Jund and Team America. The discard can be nice against combo.
SoBaM in my opinion is only good in a deck that doesn't play that many creatures.
In Legacy SoWaP is just worse than the other swords, because of its mostly irrelevant abilities.

Fatal
03-12-2013, 05:19 AM
I found some solution for most S&T decks.

I was playing some anti-Imperial Painter - used oldschool Gaea's Blessing, but then I switched to Emrakul after I sided it vs S&T MU - and it was deal. Most of times S&T decks aren't S&T->Emrakul vs us since they afraid Knight of the Reliquary on other side which brings them in disadvantage (bounce Emrakul with Karakas and they just waste S&T without any effect - except KotR in-play).

Most of the playline of S&T:

Omni:

S&T -> Griselbrand.
S&T -> Omni -> combo from Bruning with or Grisel/Emrakul - this line of play we can't stop mostly (only with trigger on stack).
S&T -> Emrakul - this line of play they won't make unless they must.

Sneak Attack:

S&T -> Griselbrand.
S&T -> Sneak Attack -> Griselbrand Emrakul similar to Omni.
S&T -> Emrakul - avoidable if they can.

Cloudpost:

S&T -> Green Titan.
S&T -> Fattie - this line of play they avoid vs Maverick.

So basically if we put Emrakul instead of O-ring which resolve most problems but doesn't put us on any advantage (mostly disadvantage since Griselbrand and in Cloudpost MU Green Titan.

So Emmy vs S&T ->opponent Griselbrand is quite nuts - they mostly pass the turn after all, with had of full disruption/permission and next turn kill. Emmy clean their table and punish then enough for Grissly draw - if they use any draw -> Emmy would be leathal :].

Emmy vs Sneak Attack -> If they put Emmy legend rule, if they put Griselbrand from Sneak its not ended yet (depends if they have additonal second red).

If they put Emmy which would mostlu doesn't happend - works like Oring.

I don't have to say how works Emmy vs Green titan -> 2 lands into play -> 6 lands from Anihilator trigger :].


So single dedicated slots for S&T decks would be Emrakuls. - You can't still win via Omni or Sneak with double red open but it doesn't happend to often.

HungryMan
03-12-2013, 03:42 PM
Hi,
what do you guys think about using Imperial Recruiter as an additional tutor for cards that GSZ can't fetch?

I've been thinking about something like this:

3x Savannah
3x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Maze of Ith
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Karakas
1x Gaea's Cradle
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Plateau
1x Taiga
23 Lands

2x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
12 Spells

4x Mother of Runes
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Imperial Recruiter
1x Thalia
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Mirran Crusader
1x Stoneforge Mystic
25 Creatures


Some Sideboard cards for Imperial Recruiter:

Phyrexian Revoker
Meddling Mage
Phyrexian Metamorph
Ethersworn Canonist
Aven Mindcensor

Edit: Typo (Thx, Esper3k)

Esper3k
03-12-2013, 03:45 PM
I assume you mean Imperial Recruiter :)

I don't think it's that good in Maverick, especially cutting Thalia's for them. Part of the power of Thalia in Maverick is dropping her on T2 and disrupting your opponent early (very necessary against combo), which you're very rarely going to do when you cut her down to 1. Most of the time, you're talking T3 Recruiter, T4 Thalia? Seems a lot worse...

BlackFlameAshura
03-14-2013, 01:37 PM
- I'd play 4 DR Shaman and 3-4 Decays. Not cut much, just replace Swords with Decay and Hierarch with DR Shaman.

- I don't think you'd ever use Swords against Bloodbraid Elf. " And it certainly isn't good against "every SnT/Sneak Attack/Reanimator known to mankind"... The main advantages are Tombstalker and the Mana cost.

- the mana denial from other DR Shamans is a double edged Sword. It is not only their Shaman denying your mana, it works both ways.

- Thoughtseize / Duress is only SB for Combo matchup. Wouldn't want to play it in the MD.

I fixed my deck up with Deathrite Shamans because Scavenging Ooze was just too slow dealing with some decks (Reanimator and Oops, All Spells specificaly) and seems to offer a lot more versatility than the Hierarchs, despite losing the Exalted triggers. I left in two Hierarchs and just took out the Oozes because they were just underperforming that much and noticed a huge jump in the deck's performance. I don't know how I feel about Abrupt Decays over Swords, though. 2 CMC vs. 1 CMC and though the Decay can't be countered, it also doesn't hit some of the other problem cards in some of my matchups, like Griselbrand and Emrakul Elesh Norn.

This is my current list:

Land (23)
1x Bayou
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
2x Windswept Heath

Creatures (26)
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sublime Archangel
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Spells (11)
1x Batterskull
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte


Sideboard (15)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Crop Rotation
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Kataki, War's Wage
3x Mindbreak Trap
1x Perish (may seem like a nombo but it helps with the combo elves matchups I face)
2x Sejiri Steppe
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Tower of the Magistrate

This week I'm actually going to be testing an Elspeth, Knight-Errant in place of Sublime Archangel (I just picked her up yesterday) and also plan on trying out Rafiq of the Many but adding the Archangel and Deathrites (which I did about two/three weeks ago) really boosted the deck's performance. I also just picked up most of the duals in the last week to really round out the deck (I was running Temple Gardens initially because I was on a budget) so I'm also curious to see how it'll perform with those in place of the shocks. The Scrubland wasn't exactly my first choice but I'm hoping it'll do.

My biggest problem is still some combo decks. Combo Elves gives me a hard time with Progenitus and building a small army that I have a hard time breaking through (hence the Steppes and the Perish in the side) and Belcher is extremely prominent in my meta and is a nightmare for my deck most of the time unless I hit the early Mindbreak Trap postboard. As mentioned before, Oops, All Spells is tough too, but a little easier since postboard approximately 1/4 of my deck can effectively become some form of hate against it.

Esper3k
03-14-2013, 01:46 PM
StP doesn't hit Emrakul either...

Philipp2293
03-14-2013, 01:50 PM
I don't know how I feel about Abrupt Decays over Swords, though. 2 CMC vs. 1 CMC and though the Decay can't be countered, it also doesn't hit some of the other problem cards in some of my matchups, like Griselbrand and Emrakul.



:eyebrow:

Also, the fact that Swords hit Griselbrand is nearly irrelevant, cause either they draw into a counter for it anyway, or if they don't or decide to let it resolve, they basically get a D7 for free.

BlackFlameAshura
03-14-2013, 01:50 PM
StP doesn't hit Emrakul either...

Yeah rereading my post again I just realized that. Oops. Still, I'm not really sold on it. It might be worth testing at the very least but I like the idea of having something that can take down some bigger problem creatures and that is cheaper as well.


:eyebrow:

Also, the fact that Swords hit Griselbrand is nearly irrelevant, cause either they draw into a counter for it anyway, or if they don't or decide to let it resolve, they basically get a D7 for free.

Yeah, again, sorry, I'm pretty terrible about remembering Emrakul's protection. Pretty embarrassing way for me to start on these forums, honestly. As for Grizzy, though, the decks that tend to drop it on me are Reanimator or Combo Elves (as a backup to me Mindbreak Trapping their Emrakul). In the former, the Reanimator player (who's a good friend of mine and I practice with a lot) doesn't hit his counters as often as he might like and also has the likely chance that he reanimated Griselbrand with Reanimate and has seen an attack or two from me already which puts him in the red zone for life regardless if he counters it or not. If he gains the life he's still down a dude and has to hit something else. With Combo Elves I have to get by the rest of his board anyways so it doesn't really matter how much more he's drawing at that point. The only other player who runs it is the lone Sneak and Show player but he hasn't been jumping into the ring so much lately so I've yet to face him.

Some other problem cards the Swords in my meta hits but not Abrupt: Jin-Gitaxias, Elesh Norn, Blightsteel Colossus, Lodestone Golem, Sundering Titan, and Grave Titan. In most of the cases where I'd want to be killing little dudes, I'd usually prefer more of a board wipe situation, since it's usually more a problem of they have an army of dudes that I'm having trouble getting through, so at that point it doesn't usually matter if I'm playing Swords or Abrupt Decay.

Tao
03-14-2013, 03:29 PM
I think DR Shaman is clearly the way to go for Maverick so I am glad some players pick up on it.

Maybe a split is right between Swords and Decay. Decay has impressed me quite a lot. For example against the Lodestone Golem deck you might hit Grim Monolith before they get to use it. Against the Grave Titan deck you might hit a Deed if they have to play it without open mana or a Sensei's Top in response to their fetching. Though against Combo Elves Swords is much better because you need every mana. For that matchup (and Combo in general) you should consider Thoughtseizes in the SB, they help a lot.

With a couple of Decays you can also go down to 1 or 2 Qasali Pridemages to make more room in the deck.

BlackFlameAshura
03-14-2013, 03:41 PM
I think DR Shaman is clearly the way to go for Maverick so I am glad some players pick up on it.

Maybe a split is right between Swords and Decay. Decay has impressed me quite a lot. For example against the Lodestone Golem deck you might hit Grim Monolith before they get to use it. Against the Grave Titan deck you might hit a Deed if they have to play it without open mana or a Sensei's Top in response to their fetching. Though against Combo Elves Swords is much better because you need every mana. For that matchup (and Combo in general) you should consider Thoughtseizes in the SB, they help a lot.

With a couple of Decays you can also go down to 1 or 2 Qasali Pridemages to make more room in the deck.

It was pretty funny when people I talked to made it seem like Deathrite is a nombo with Knight of the Reliquary...as if I'm going to be hitting my own GY most of the time. If anything it hurt my Terravore I was running at the time so I swapped it with Sublime.

I'm still not sure how I feel between StP and AD, but I'll still likely try them on different weeks. Maybe 2 Decays in the SB, but my board is pretty tightly constructed for my meta. Not real sure where I'd fit it, but I do think Pernicious Deed is a really good idea. I meant to pick one up yesterday, even, but wound up forgetting about it and only remembering after I'd already used all my store credit. It sucks that you mention Thoughtseize like that since I just unloaded my set to get my Savannahs which I feel I needed far more because frankly Temple Gardens was hurting me pretty bad.

I don't know I'd want to go down on Pridemages, though. They hit a bunch of things (in addition to some obvious AD targets, it also can hit Batterskull if they tap out to drop it on board), swing for 2 (usually more when they go it alone), and put down some exalted triggers when my big guys go in. It's a thought, though, maybe cut one Swords and one Pridemage to put in two Abrupt Decays.

Tao
03-15-2013, 07:44 AM
I think that playing Thoughtseizes MD could be what Maverick needs to get back in shape. The list that I will post is not enough tested yet, but I have made a couple of games and whenever I have casted Thoughtseize on T1 it was amazing. You feel much less helpless when playing against Combo opponents and T1 Thoughtseize (or Duress), T2 Thalia (or Teeg) usually puts you in a great spot. I think something like this could be the way to go for Maverick in the current Meta:

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
2 Sylvan Library

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

Arsenal
03-15-2013, 08:00 AM
The way this is looking, you should really head over to The Rock thread. Thoughtseize, Abrupt Decay, and DRS alongside Goyf, SFM, GSZ, KotR, etc is what we've been running since we could.

Tao
03-15-2013, 08:23 AM
The transitions are smooth but I would say this is still rather Maverick than The Rock. Most current Rock decks play ~16-18 creatures including 4 Tarmogoyf and 4 Bob, this has 26 (counting GSZ) without Bob or Goyf.

BlackFlameAshura
03-15-2013, 09:20 AM
I agree with Tao, the decks seem similar but feel different playing them. Personally I prefer Maverick...that and I don't have nor do I really have the cash to obtain Tarms and Bobs at the moment. I don't think my build will change too much. Like I said, I'll probably try the Abrupt Decays but I don't know that I'll need them as StP hits more and the Pridemage I'll be taking out also hits things I'd want to be taking down with Abrupt Decay. If I didn't just sell my Thoughtseizes, though, I'd probably run them against the combo matchup, but then hindsight's always 20/20 I suppose.

Lt. Quattro
03-17-2013, 04:46 AM
This list placed 2nd at the Japan national championship, 384 players.

2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Loyal Retainers
3 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
3 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Maze of Ith
3 Savannah
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Sideboard:
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Peacekeeper
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Crop Rotation
1 Path to Exile
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Armageddon
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rule of Law
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Bojuka Bog

Can someone explain the the usefulness of loyal retainers?

Turn 1: mana accelerator or green sun one out
Turn 2: play fauna shaman or green sun a shaman out
Turn 3: activate fauna shaman discarding the legend, search for and play the loyal retainers
Turn 4: activate loyal retainers and swing a 3/3 dork and a 4/4 shaman?

Is Elesh Norn used mainly as a board wipe?

BlackFlameAshura
03-17-2013, 11:21 AM
Can someone explain the the usefulness of loyal retainers?

Turn 1: mana accelerator or green sun one out
Turn 2: play fauna shaman or green sun a shaman out
Turn 3: activate fauna shaman discarding the legend, search for and play the loyal retainers
Turn 4: activate loyal retainers and swing a 3/3 dork and a 4/4 shaman?

Is Elesh Norn used mainly as a board wipe?

Your main target for the Fauna Shaman and Loyal Retainers is Elesh Norn. Not only can she be a board wipe but if you've got a field filled with a ton of mana dorks and little creatures, suddenly they all overpower your opponent's board allowing you to swing in for the kill.

With regards to my deck, I wound up 2-2 last night, beating out UWr Delver and Reanimator but losing to MUD (in a particularly grindy game) and Oops, All Spells. Couldn't seem to hit my hate as quickly as I'd have liked despite Deathrites with the mana, he'd always be hitting the turn one combo which, as always, is tough for me. Unfortuntely I didn't get an opportunity to test out Elspeth because I never draw her. Even in the multiple for-fun practice games I played with my friends both before and after the event, I only hit her once and she got countered before I could really utilize her though in that specific situation she would've won me the game whereas the Archangel wouldn't so I'll probably continue using her for awhile and see how it continues to perform with her.

Fatal
03-18-2013, 10:11 AM
Topped 8 with 3 other Mavericks on GPT in Bydgoszcz:
Then in top4 only me left.
Split in finals.

List:

1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Punishing Fire
1 Batterskull
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Life from the Loam
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Horizon Canopy
//SB
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


very short report (maybe I write something later):
R1 - Merfolks - cat walk - 2-0
R2 - Tempo RUG - catwalk 2 - 2-0
R3 - U/R Pyromancer ascession - that was weird in game 1 - don't know this deck enough good, but finded good solutions in second and third game - 2-1
R4 - Tempo RUG - catwalk 3 - 3-0
R5 - ID with one of three maverick.

Top8 - Nemesis - Sneak Attack - 2-1:
This was really one of the most stressful match:

Game 1 loses to turn 2 Sneak Attack from S&T -> Griselbrand draw 14, Petal -> Emrakul -> kill.

Side:
+2 Oblivion Ring
+2 Emrakul
+3 Red Elemental Blast

-2 Scavenging Ooze
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Umezawa's Jitte

I could sided Extraction's but they're rather narrow in this MU.

Game 2:
I Fetch->Shaman -> pass - Opponent Island Ponder.
I Fetch on play not cracked -> SFM for Batterskull->pass - Opponent Sol land S&T-> Griselbrand and FoW my Red Elemental Blast....
and.. I put Emrakul :) Game 3.

Game 3:
Opponent didn't draw as well as 2 games before he died before resolving Sneak Attack.

In top4: RUG from Swiss - catwalk- 2-0

Top2: Split prizes.

diakocjay
03-18-2013, 06:23 PM
I recently decided to complete my p.mav deck. I had been reading all the posts (from page 1 which is really a lot) they said before that p. mav is dead but in my meta it is very much competitive. I just want to get your thoughts in adding charms(selensya and boros) on the main board?

useL
03-19-2013, 06:02 AM
I really have to emphasize how good Sigarda is. Will play my mav-list tonight again and post a report if all goes well. Flying mav ftw!

carllos
03-19-2013, 10:20 AM
Topped 8 with 3 other Mavericks on GPT in Bydgoszcz:
Then in top4 only me left.
Split in finals.


C'mon, you weren't the only one. Had to register just to write this :]

Getting back to the topic, how happy are you with the Shaman/Hierarch split?

Fatal
03-19-2013, 12:56 PM
Carllos good you join TheSource :)

Top4:

RUG(same from Swiss) - Punishing Mav
12 Cloudpost U/G - You(Straight GW list) :)

Its not best MU specially without good answers for S&T-> Titan. I tested a lot this MU day before with my Bro.

Btw until we wait for decklist maybe you could post your list. If I'm correct you was running straight GW list, I was curious how many Aven Mindcensors did you fit in your list, also sideboard - from my scouting you played 3 E.Tutor and toolbox for them.

About Split I was happy running split - I never had problems finding mana, and additional I used Shaman for other abilities - good was also that I gives other then bant colors so I could play REB and Punishing Fire from them - it wasn't so important when you fetch correctly but it gives a little edge over hierarch.

useL
03-20-2013, 03:51 AM
The time for modesty has passed. All hail G/W-straight! Won against Goblins, Jund, UG Enchantress and Esper yesterday ending with a fantastic huge price of 4 Innistrad boosters giving me 4 commons worth money and the rest went into the bin (gotta love booster rippings that turn into nothing). MVP's were as usual Mother of Runes and Aven Mindcensor. Will post a report later today.

Changed my mind, not worth the effort to write out the deck list and stuff since this thread is just filled with spam from deck lists allready.

Card choices I ran with:

Sigarda, Host of Herons - very strong vs jund and esper g1. Works great to avoid annihilation from silly Emrakuls and with a mother of runes in play beats kinda hard on your opponents forehead.

Aven Mindcesor - flyes, trades with delver, shuts down stoneforge mystic, shuts down fetches, goblin matron, opponents pacts/zeniths if they are on elves or mirror, infernal tutor etc etc. This is a beast.

Playing 3 thalia main, she seems more important than ever and if I am on the play against Jund for instance she is a house followed up with waste and aven mindcensor. Four maybe? I will settle with three right now.

4 Mother of runes, who in their right mind cuts a mom and then procedes to weaken their manabase by playing punishing fire? I will probably get pwned by a deck playing just that soon enough but when I get to untap t2 with an active mom, I tend to win. Funny that I opened a hand with Savannah, Cavern of Souls, Forest and four moms last night. The fantastic beats that the esper opponent took after I then continued to slap revoker on Jitte and went to town on him with 1/1s!

Gaea's Cradle = sigarda early, ooze that eats entire graveyards, cant play without it, it just wins flat out against so many decks when you get to untap with that and an army of guys on your side holding a zenith in hand.

Right now playing 1 Thrun (shroud and solid blocker against aggro) but thinking of cutting him for either third Aven Mindcensor, second Phyrexian Revoker, birds of paradise or second Qasali Pridemage.



Sideboard choices are very metadependant as usual but my board has kinda stayed the same for a while now. Cards I could not live without but will not decide how many of each you should play:

Crop Rotation
Bojuka Bog
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Ethersworn Canonist
Enlightened Tutor
Rest in Peace
Oblivion Ring
Krosan Grip
Pithing Needle

carllos
03-20-2013, 03:58 AM
I'm doing this from memory, but I believe that my list went something like this:


//MB:
1x Plains
2x Forest
3x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Tropical Island

1x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Mother of Runes
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Sylvan Library
2x Quasali Pridemage
3x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Mangara of Corondor
1x Rafiq of the Many
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Aven Mindcensor

// SB:
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Serenity
1 Warmth
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Choke


The tutors really pay off in Bydgoszcz, as usually 1 in 2 games I find myself tutoring for Warmth, Canonist, RiP or Serenity after SB (yes, Burn and Affinity quite well represented and I get almost a free win with those cards).

Mindcensor isn't all that great vs combo but help simultanousely locking out some grindy games (mirror).
Rafiq caught 2 of my opponents with their pants down and won games that I probably would have otherwise lost.
I'm really on the fence with Mangara. He's almost always a 2for1 and kicks SnT where it really hurts but he is just so slow.

Regarding the Shaman, I see the 2 Oozes in your list but nevertheless don't you find yourself sometimes wanting to use its :b: or not being able to get mana of him to often?

Ecstatic_Conch
03-20-2013, 03:00 PM
I was wondering what kind of things other maverick players do against stone blade, as my meta is filled with that deck and I very rarely beat it. Show and tell decks are another persistent problem. I've gotten there with karakas, pyroblast, and oblivion ring- but game one can be a stretch. If anyone has any suggestions as to how I can improve those matchups, I'd appreciate it. Here's my current list:

3 Punishing Fire
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Sylvan Library
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Wasteland
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Karakas
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

I'm not opposed to going back to straight G/W if it's helpful. Honestly, the deck hasn't been performing very well for me, and is very unforgiving of mistakes. One mistake can often cost you the game I've found. I might just shelve it, or try to get as much practice as I can in to up my win percentage. Last sunday in a SCG IQ I went 3-3, beating Goblins, Bant, and Lands, and losing to Storm, Stoneblade, and Team America. Against stoneblade, he swords to plowshared my knight and had a batterskull + restoration angel which flickered his stoneforge to find a jitte which pretty much sealed the game. I don't remember the other game. Against storm, I had nothing game one but probably should have mulliganed into teeg since I knew what he was playing already. Game 2 I made the mistake of tapping my Karakas with my thalia out and he abrupt decayed it. I didn't know storm played that card, and was expecting chain of vapor instead. If I had killed his lotus petal with qasali pridemage to shut off his third mana source or kept the Karakas untapped I probably would have won that game. Against team america he overwhelmed me with card advantage game one with a Bob out and I couldn't find a swords or punishing fire. I had two huge knights, but two baleful strix prevented me from attacking profitably. Eventually he landed jace and it was game over. Game two I kept a loose hand with horizon canopy and wasteland as my only lands. He wastelanded my canopy, I wastelanded his bayou back. We both entered top deck mode for lands and I proceeded to go 4 turns without finding a land. By then he had drawn 2 lands and was way ahead with a goyf. It didn't take much more than the goyf to finish me off. So all and all a disappointing tournament, but with some fixable mistakes on my part. I'm hoping to eventually get a better handle on the deck and see where it takes me.

Tao
03-20-2013, 03:45 PM
@Ecstatic_Conch: On top of this page I posted a list with a black splash for Thoughtseize, Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay. I have made a few more games and a couple of changes. I think it is very good.

Considering the matchups you lost:
Thoughtseize is amazing in general (great vs. Stoneblade, too), but a turn 1 Discard spell obviously helps most against Combo decks. T1 Discard, T2 Thalia/Teeg is often game because they can't find a solution for the hate bear AND recover from the loss of their best card before you find more disruption or kill them.
DR Shaman is just better than Hierarch in every matchup. Against Stoneblade it eats away their Snapcaster targets, maybe a Lingering Souls here and there, and it is just another nice threat in general for when the game stalls. Against Storm it makes Cabal Ritual bad and it becomes much harder for them to win with Past in Flames.
Decay over Swords could have helped you in the Stoneblade matchup by killing the Jitte.

I would build it currently like this:

2 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sigarda, Host of Hero

4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jittens

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 3 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

Megadeus
03-20-2013, 03:46 PM
Wasn't maverick built to beat stoneblade and RUG Delver? You must be doing something wrong. ..

Zombie
03-20-2013, 03:52 PM
I had nothing game one but probably should have mulliganed into teeg since I knew what he was playing already.

ANT builds without Burning Wish are typically straight up dead to Teeg (or, hilariously, Extract) game one, so that's definitely a decent plan.
Abrupt Decay is nowadays found in basically all Storm sideboards (as well as Elves if they're playing black which most non-budget lists are) because it answers Counterbalance so well and makes the Miracles matchup not a huge bitch to play.

Ecstatic_Conch
03-20-2013, 04:55 PM
Wasn't maverick built to beat stoneblade and RUG Delver? You must be doing something wrong. ..

Meant to beat stoneblade? Please, explain how. Rug delver, sure, that's no problem. But stoneblade? Let me show you how the average game against stoneblade goes. Turn one they thoughtseize or inquisition you and take your knight or green sun zenith. On your turn you play a mother of runes. The stoneblade player untaps and swords to plowshares your mother of runes. On your second turn you play a stoneforge mystic and it gets spell snared. On the stoneblade player's third turn they play stoneforge mystic fetching batterskull. On your third turn you play knight of the reliquary, which is only a 3/3 from the one fetch you used. The stoneblade player doesn't care, he has a batterskull. You have a pathetic board position as he drops batterskull in on turn 4. If you're lucky enough to have a sylvan library, at this point it would most likely just meet a force of will. Even if you establish a decent board position they can chump block with lingering souls tokens all day. From there all they need to do is attack with batterskull or a v-clique a few times to lock up the game. Let's imagine another game against stoneblade. You get lucky, and have a mother of runes and knight of the reliquary on the table. You play a gaddock teeg and he forces it. Next turn he untaps and plays supreme verdict. Game over. Card for card, stoneblade has answers to everything maverick can possibly throw at it.

Now, I'm not the best pilot of this deck by any means, but I have been playing maverick for close to a year, and the only round I managed to beat stoneblade was when I played choke when my opponent had 3 tapped islands. That's pretty pathetic at best. My meta is filled with very very good players. How have your games against stoneblade been?

BlackFlameAshura
03-20-2013, 05:01 PM
Meant to beat stoneblade? Please, explain how. Rug delver, sure, that's no problem. But stoneblade? Let me show you how the average game against stoneblade goes. Turn one they thoughtseize or inquisition you and take your knight or green sun zenith. On your turn you play a mother of runes. The stoneblade player untaps and swords to plowshares your mother of runes. On your second turn you play a stoneforge mystic and it gets spell snared. On the stoneblade player's third turn they play stoneforge mystic fetching batterskull. On your third turn you play knight of the reliquary, which is only a 3/3 from the one fetch you used. The stoneblade player doesn't care, he has a batterskull. You have a pathetic board position as he drops batterskull in on turn 4. If you're lucky enough to have a sylvan library, at this point it would most likely just meet a force of will. Even if you establish a decent board position they can chump block with lingering souls tokens all day. From there all they need to do is attack with batterskull or a v-clique a few times to lock up the game. Let's imagine another game against stoneblade. You get lucky, and have a mother of runes and knight of the reliquary on the table. You play a gaddock teeg and he forces it. Next turn he untaps and plays supreme verdict. Game over. Card for card, stoneblade has answers to everything maverick can possibly throw at it.

Now, I'm not the best pilot of this deck by any means, but I have been playing maverick for close to a year, and the only round I managed to beat stoneblade was when I played choke when my opponent had 3 tapped islands. That's pretty pathetic at best. My meta is filled with very very good players. How have your games against stoneblade been?

I've played against Stoneblade the last couple tournaments I've been to. One of the rounds I beat him out even facing Thoughtseizes and the like. We had a rematch the next week and the match went 1-1 before going to time. He already wasn't doing too well and his wife was 0-2 so he gave me the win and went on his way. So far it hasn't been too much of a problem. I honestly feel like it's a pretty interesting matchup myself.

Megadeus
03-20-2013, 05:06 PM
Meant to beat stoneblade? Please, explain how. Rug delver, sure, that's no problem. But stoneblade? Let me show you how the average game against stoneblade goes. Turn one they thoughtseize or inquisition you and take your knight or green sun zenith. On your turn you play a mother of runes. The stoneblade player untaps and swords to plowshares your mother of runes. On your second turn you play a stoneforge mystic and it gets spell snared. On the stoneblade player's third turn they play stoneforge mystic fetching batterskull. On your third turn you play knight of the reliquary, which is only a 3/3 from the one fetch you used. The stoneblade player doesn't care, he has a batterskull. You have a pathetic board position as he drops batterskull in on turn 4. If you're lucky enough to have a sylvan library, at this point it would most likely just meet a force of will. Even if you establish a decent board position they can chump block with lingering souls tokens all day. From there all they need to do is attack with batterskull or a v-clique a few times to lock up the game. Let's imagine another game against stoneblade. You get lucky, and have a mother of runes and knight of the reliquary on the table. You play a gaddock teeg and he forces it. Next turn he untaps and plays supreme verdict. Game over. Card for card, stoneblade has answers to everything maverick can possibly throw at it.

Now, I'm not the best pilot of this deck by any means, but I have been playing maverick for close to a year, and the only round I managed to beat stoneblade was when I played choke when my opponent had 3 tapped islands. That's pretty pathetic at best. My meta is filled with very very good players. How have your games against stoneblade been?

I... Dont play Maverick... I was just asking. And you go T1 Noble Hierarch into T2 KOTR or something. I dont think Stoneblade plays Spell Snare btw... Also you have Qasali Pridemage as a MB Tutorable way to kill off their BSkull. Again my question was a legitimate one. Maverick became popular in the states around the time that the Meta was a lot of RUG and Stoneblade if I remember correctly. Also I havent seen a stoneforge list for Maverick in awhile either...

kai_nsane
03-20-2013, 07:17 PM
Hello,

I'm going to go to a regional tiuournament in a few weeks.

There are many Midrange Decks, like RUG, BUG, Jund and ComboDecks like SnT, TES and ANT.

Would you recommen to play straight GW Maverick or splash red for punishing Maverick in this Meta.

My Sideboard looks like this:

3 Ethersworn Canonist (Storm, maybe goblins)
3 ORing ( SnT, multiremoval -> Planeswalker, Creatures of Midrange Decks)
2 Surgical Extraction ( GY Hate -> Fetchlands, Dredge, Reanimator ...)
1 Bojuka Bog ( Tutorable gy hate)
1 Gaddock Teeg ( Combo, PW,)
..

The last 5 slots are for 3 Natural Order and 2 Progenitus. It seems to be good against the fair Decks.

What do you think about my sideboard?

I dont play many tournaments, so with your tips i feel better :D

Lord_Mcdonalds
03-20-2013, 09:53 PM
Hello,

I'm going to go to a regional tiuournament in a few weeks.

There are many Midrange Decks, like RUG, BUG, Jund and ComboDecks like SnT, TES and ANT.

Would you recommen to play straight GW Maverick or splash red for punishing Maverick in this Meta.


Of the fair decks, which is the most prevelant, if you expect a lot of rug, G/W is a better, it's mana is more stable and thalia is a beating for that deck, if it's Jund, Punishing is abetter, punishing fire straight kills everyone of their creatures (except goyf, whom you should just simply ignore), punishing jund, not too familiar with the matchup, my gut says punishing maverick though.

As for combo, G/W is usually a bit better as your using 3-4 thalia mainboard (instead of out of the board, if at all for punishing maverick), and punishing fire is really dead in these matchups. Though you don't have access to pyroblast.

In general, g/w is probably better but if you expect more BG/x midrange, punishing maverick is a solid choice.

Personally never cared for the Natural Order plan, but it's a way to go I guess. Seeing your list would make things a tad easier (or prospective list/s) to comment on.

useL
03-21-2013, 01:59 AM
Meant to beat stoneblade? Please, explain how. Rug delver, sure, that's no problem. But stoneblade? Let me show you how the average game against stoneblade goes. Turn one they thoughtseize or inquisition you and take your knight or green sun zenith. On your turn you play a mother of runes. The stoneblade player untaps and swords to plowshares your mother of runes. On your second turn you play a stoneforge mystic and it gets spell snared. On the stoneblade player's third turn they play stoneforge mystic fetching batterskull. On your third turn you play knight of the reliquary, which is only a 3/3 from the one fetch you used. The stoneblade player doesn't care, he has a batterskull. You have a pathetic board position as he drops batterskull in on turn 4. If you're lucky enough to have a sylvan library, at this point it would most likely just meet a force of will. Even if you establish a decent board position they can chump block with lingering souls tokens all day. From there all they need to do is attack with batterskull or a v-clique a few times to lock up the game. Let's imagine another game against stoneblade. You get lucky, and have a mother of runes and knight of the reliquary on the table. You play a gaddock teeg and he forces it. Next turn he untaps and plays supreme verdict. Game over. Card for card, stoneblade has answers to everything maverick can possibly throw at it.

Now, I'm not the best pilot of this deck by any means, but I have been playing maverick for close to a year, and the only round I managed to beat stoneblade was when I played choke when my opponent had 3 tapped islands. That's pretty pathetic at best. My meta is filled with very very good players. How have your games against stoneblade been?

That is just poor draw and sequencing. Imagine the same scenario but it plays out like this instead. He looks at your hand and it shows 2 lands (1 cavern + 1 fetch), 1 mom, 1 zenith, 1 hierarch, 1 knight and something random but a threat). Now he has the option of taking the zenith to protect his batterskull, take the knight because it will outgrow his batterskull in 1!!! turn or take the mom that will protect all your creatures. He has the swords to plowshares in hand but it is not all that obvious what to do with it. He decides to take the knight and try to counter the zenith when you cast that. Mind you, he cant have all the answers in hand and probably he has more than 2 lands in hand. His hands cant all be that dreamy and contain removal, stoneforge, fow+blue card in a list with 20 (max) blue cards PLUS three lands that lets him navigate around wasteland.

On your turn 1 you cast uncounterable mom OR you go for hierarch to set up something bigger on t2. We draw a land. We go for mom and passes. He plays land and now he needs to kill your mom directly, if not, its probably over. If he didnt find the three basiclands hand he now has probably an underground sea + tundra or plains out. He plows the mom and he sure as hell doesnt have spell snare in hand since that is almost unplayed in stoneforge (they are all copycats and run vidi's list).

Turn 2 we untap, draw a threat (if its a hierarch it changes things around a bit) and play our second land. IF we have found a wasteland instead of a creature from the two draws we now probably win the game by wasting and casting hierarch into t4 threat (if its human its uncounterable). But lets for argument sake say it is not a wasteland so we go hierarch and pass turn. Maybe we drew another mom or another zenith, then we can ramp into dryad arbor or win from there if he doesnt find the second swords to plowshares.

So on turn 3 he either looks down at 1 land or at a mother of runes or at 3 lands on my side and he has nothing in play. He plays a land and goes for stoneforge mystic, gets Batterskull, passes turn.

We draw a knight. Cast knight with our three mana uncounterable.


This game is all up to the player and the draw. It is by far not unwinnable. He has 1!!!! Supreme Verdict, he has 1!! Perish and 1 Zealous Persecution. He rocks 1 Umezawa's Jitte and some snappys to enable his swords. I'm just saying, if he doesnt find any of those cards we will have an easy game. Even if he resolves them it will not be that easy for him to win since we can come back from a board wipe if we dont slam down all our threats at once. I play Aven Mindcensor to screw with their stoneforge and landfetches. They have a very weak mana base, remember that. If they cant fetch into basics and we have a knight out, should be game over from there. Just get your mother of runes out and keep it alive until you find your scryb ranger, knight of the reliquary or similar threat.

Sorry for the rant, just trying to explain the matchup. Oh btw, try playing stoneblade against maverick to learn the matchup better.

kai_nsane
03-21-2013, 05:39 AM
Of the fair decks, which is the most prevelant, if you expect a lot of rug, G/W is a better, it's mana is more stable and thalia is a beating for that deck, if it's Jund, Punishing is abetter, punishing fire straight kills everyone of their creatures (except goyf, whom you should just simply ignore), punishing jund, not too familiar with the matchup, my gut says punishing maverick though.

As for combo, G/W is usually a bit better as your using 3-4 thalia mainboard (instead of out of the board, if at all for punishing maverick), and punishing fire is really dead in these matchups. Though you don't have access to pyroblast.

In general, g/w is probably better but if you expect more BG/x midrange, punishing maverick is a solid choice.

Personally never cared for the Natural Order plan, but it's a way to go I guess. Seeing your list would make things a tad easier (or prospective list/s) to comment on.

Thank you very much. I guess that i play straight GW. My List look probably like this.

3 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Green Suns Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawas Jitte

1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaeas Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Plaines
2 Cavern of Souls


If i would play Punishing fire, i would put Thalia into SB and Change the Manabase a little bit -> 3 Groves, 1 Taiga, 1 Plateau / - 1 Wasteland, 1 Savannah, 2 CoS, 1 Canopy.

A little explanation to the choices:
1 Sylvan Safekeeper: He is my 4th MoR. I think instant protection is not bad.
2 Mirran Crusader : I read in other Forums, that he is great. I want to test him over the SFM.
1 Sigarda: With Cradle a castable Fattie against the Midrange Decks. Also good against SnT -> negate annihilator.

The SB looks like this:
3 Ethersworn Canonist (Storm, maybe goblins)
3 ORing ( SnT, multiremoval -> Planeswalker, Creatures of Midrange Decks)
2 Surgical Extraction ( GY Hate -> Fetchlands, Dredge, Reanimator ...)
1 Bojuka Bog ( Tutorable gy hate)
1 Gaddock Teeg ( Combo, PW,)
3 Natural Order
2 Progenitus

What are your opinions about, Loxodon Smiter/WLL, Ulvenwald Tracker? Are they worth to play?

What do you think od my build? I am open to changes, to get better :)

Fatal
03-21-2013, 07:04 AM
@Carllos - Yes sometimes it was an issue probably one Bayou would fix the problem - but I wanted to have Bojuka MD to fight opposite KtoR's with Punishing fires.

diakocjay
03-21-2013, 08:07 AM
how about charms? (boros or selensya) are they worth adding to the deck list?

BlackFlameAshura
03-21-2013, 11:12 AM
how about charms? (boros or selensya) are they worth adding to the deck list?

The only thing I'd even consider running Selesnya Charm for is giving your KOTR a buff with Trample, but even then, there's better options, like Sejiri Steppe, that you can play in order to get around your opponent's creatures. Boros Charm might not be terrible in a Punishing Maverick build, but I also don't think it's really necessary. Double Strike doesn't do anything if they just chump block away, Indestructible might be okay if your attack actually did something to their board but most of the time it won't, and with the ping 4 I'd rather just go Lightning Bolt at that point for being less mana intensive and because it has more versatility in that it can also nail creatures.

TheKingslayer
03-21-2013, 05:21 PM
In my experience, I would say that we were favored 60-40 against U/W stoneblade, but the inclusion of black has dropped the bearing down to about 50/50. If you have an active knight, keep them off of four lands. Jace is truly what leaves you in the dust. As well, running a couple of sylvan libraries helps excellently in grindy miracles/esperblade matchups. In those matchups, don't be afraid to take 8 damage (or more) from the Library to put more pressure on control players and force them to stay on their toes and play defensibly.

Also, the stoneforge package is way too great of a resource investment to justify running anymore, in my opinion. Especially with decays abound in the format.

Just practice the matchup.

Sigar
03-22-2013, 06:06 PM
How important is Scryb Ranger for this deck? When do you tutor for it with GSZ? Is it needed to win against Delver decks?

Koby
03-22-2013, 06:24 PM
How important is Scryb Ranger for this deck? When do you tutor for it with GSZ? Is it needed to win against Delver decks?

It's a useful tool, and helps to beat Delver decks by a long shot. It's useful for starting the aggressive line with the deck. It maintains zero Forest in play vs deck that play Submerge. It flies and carries equipment like a boss. It's tutored for when you have an opportunity to use one of your attackers/activated ability dorks/need mana. It's a swiss army knife.

Koby
03-22-2013, 07:11 PM
What are your opinions about, Loxodon Smiter/WLL, Ulvenwald Tracker? Are they worth to play?

What do you think od my build? I am open to changes, to get better :)

I would play WLL if I had access to a few. it's a great way to boost the team and make each creature a threat against Black decks. Watchout for Perish however.

Tracker is pretty weak. I prefer to play another Path to Exile in its place.

As for your build, it looks 1-3 cards different from mine when I was still playing it. Consider adding a 2nd Forest, likely swapping out a Cavern of Souls. Activating Scavenging Ooze actually matters a lot of times, and having less Forests/plains means KotR doesn't work as well.

kai_nsane
03-22-2013, 07:31 PM
Thank you Koby!

I would add WLL to the Sb.

What do you think about NO Sideboard? In my meta are many URG, Bug, jund and Storm Decks.

Gotta
03-24-2013, 07:04 AM
Hi all,

I just wanted to post the list I have used last tournament (Danish Legacy Master 2013) that got me to the 16th place

4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
3 Forest
1 Plains
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eiganjo Castle

4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thrun, the Last Troll


SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Rest in Peace

Matches:

Affinity 1 - 2
Charbelcher 0 - 2
High Tide 2 - 1
Esper 2 - 1
Maverick 2 - 0
Death and Taxes 2 - 0
Esper 2 - 0

Few thoughts:

Aven Mindcensor and Sylvan Safekeeper did a really good job

I found the 2 Krosan grip too much, they are not tutorable and they cost 4 with Thalia on board so I m planning to switch one with 1x Engineered Explosives (which could have saved me against both Affinity and the 16 tokens of Charbelcher)

diakocjay
03-27-2013, 05:01 AM
I have a question: Is NO Package still viable today?
In my meta I have a lot of dredge, gobs, fish, rug, mav and bug.
I want to know, cause I wanna buy the NO package and replace my Fauna-Loyal-Elesh Combo (deathrite simply kills me)

Thank you in advance. :)

useL
03-30-2013, 04:27 PM
I have a question: Is NO Package still viable today?
In my meta I have a lot of dredge, gobs, fish, rug, mav and bug.
I want to know, cause I wanna buy the NO package and replace my Fauna-Loyal-Elesh Combo (deathrite simply kills me)

Thank you in advance. :)

In a meta without a lot of Liliana and mass removal I think it is fine. I wouldnt want to play it against RUG or Miracles but the rest is fine. It is a bit clunky and do not try to play any more expensive spells than NO-package. I would pack 1 fauna shaman though in the 60.

diakocjay
04-04-2013, 05:50 AM
Hi Team,

How about adding rancor to your MD?

Asthereal
04-04-2013, 06:25 AM
Hi Team,

How about adding rancor to your MD?
It makes you vulnerable to 2-for-1's from your opponent.
It isn't a threat in itself.
It's purely aggro where Maverick usually needs the option to play the controllish role.
I think Rancor doesn't belong in normal Maverick lists.

I'm building a Punishing list right now. Any tips? It looks like this so far:

PUNISHING MAVERICK

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary /21

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant /17

4 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland /22

Side:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg /15

The deck is tuned to beat fair decks right now. Unfair stuff will always be a problem for Mav, so I decided not to waste too much space to try and beat that.

diakocjay
04-04-2013, 12:02 PM
It makes you vulnerable to 2-for-1's from your opponent.
It isn't a threat in itself.
It's purely aggro where Maverick usually needs the option to play the controllish role.
I think Rancor doesn't belong in normal Maverick lists.

I'm building a Punishing list right now. Any tips? It looks like this so far:

PUNISHING MAVERICK

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary /21

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant /17

4 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland /22

Side:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg /15

The deck is tuned to beat fair decks right now. Unfair stuff will always be a problem for Mav, so I decided not to waste too much space to try and beat that.


I am also playing a PMav deck. I am just curious why you did not include Life from the Loam (which is a superstar on my deck). maybe you can cut 1 MoR to make room for that (i think). I also want to know fared against Show and Tell and BUG decks.

Asthereal
04-04-2013, 01:21 PM
BUG Tempo and Midrange seem like pretty fine matchups.
No auto-win, but we have a decent game with the Punishing Fire and the Knights.
I especially like Elspeth against the slower BUG lists.
Against tempo lists Scryb Ranger can give you lots of value.

Show and Tell is a very tough matchup. We do have Knight -> Karakas main.
Side gives us REB and Oblivion Ring, but we'll still lose most games.
Note that Maverick, especially the Punishing version, is made to beat fair decks. :wink:

I'm not very fond of Life from the Loam in a deck that does not include one of these:
- Brainstorm (to shuffle away excess lands)
- Jace (same)
- 4x Wasteland + either Canopy or Cycle Lands
Loam can give us some advantage, but it doesn't affect the board state, and its pretty slow.
So that's why it's not in there. :smile:

Manipulato
04-04-2013, 01:53 PM
Hey Guys,
im preparing for the Legacy GP next weekend in Strassbourg...I will play the straight GW build, and here´s my current list.
Please make room for advice.


4x Green Sun's Zenith
4xNoble Hierarch
4xKnight of the Reliquary
4xSwords to Plowshares
3xMother of Runes
1xStoneforge Mystic
1xGaddock Teeg
1xSigarda, Host of Herons
1xSylvan Safekeeper
2xScavenging Ooze
2xUmezawas Jitte
4xThalia, Guardian of Thraben
1xEternal Witness
2xSylvan Library
2xQasali Pridemage
1x Scryb Ranger

2 x Forest
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Wasteland
1xMaze of ith
4xWindswept Heath
4xSavanne
1xHorizon Canopy
2xCavern of Souls
2xMisty Rainforest
1xKarakas
/23

Sideboard:
2x Oblivion Ring
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Garruk, Reentless
1x Elspeth, Knight Errant
1x Gaddock Teeg
3x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Path to Exile
2x Linvala, keeper of silence

Explanations: The 1of Sigarda is just great against BGx Decks like Jund or BUG, Junk because she shuts off Lilli and is resistent against all pointremovel, Witness and the 2nd Library is great against a lot of Discard Decks. The Splitt between Mother and Safekeeper is good too because you can tutor the keeper and it doesn´t die to hate like enigeered plaque´s...
The Linvala´s in the SB are against the mirror (i know Maverick is not DTB anymore but 9 Rounds are long^^), Elfball and sometimes you can side in it even against Show and Tell (Griselbrand-LInvala)... The rest is just against combo and control MU´s.
I thought of Meddling Mage and Detention Sphere´s in the SB (little U Splash, 1off Tropical Main), don´t know...

Einherjer
04-04-2013, 02:44 PM
Ok, let me bring a few points of critique.

1) Eternal Witness: First of all this isn't NicFit where we can get some recurring Engine going, nor do we have Deeds or anything similar, making our Witness a little weaker. It can get countered stuff back, or a Swords to Plowshares from time to time, but I don't think that in a format, where Deathrite Shaman, Rest in Peace and Swords to Plowshares are widely used Witness is any good, unless it enables broken stuff, which it does not.

2) When I looked at your list and saw the lone Mystic I was like "Oh, I'm sure he is running some Sword or the Skull in the Side, or simply a Jitte/Sword-split" - which you do not. Based on my experience Stoneforge Mystic (especially with only one target) is no good in Maverick. We simply don't have the time/mana to waste 6 Mana on a Jitte, instead of 4, just for the bonus of it being uncounterable. I'd just play more Jittes if you feel so, or play a completly different card here. (or maybe run a SoXaY in the side?)

3) So if we cut these slots we have 2 free slots. What to play in them? Well I'd probably play 1 Mother of Runes and 1 Scavening Ooze in there. Mother of Runes OtP is like superhard to handle for any Shamandeck, and Ooze is just nice too, countering any Shamanactivation for a mere G. In addition to this the Ooze acts as additional MB GY-hate and good creatures vs any Tempodeck.

I hope my thoughts could help you a little.

Greetings

TiltingKitty
04-04-2013, 02:56 PM
The Splitt between Mother and Safekeeper is good too because you can tutor the keeper and it doesn´t die to hate like enigeered plaque´s...

FYI, Safekeeper is a Human Wizard, Mom is a Human Cleric. Both of them will die to the same EPlague.

The reason you want Safekeeper are that he's tutorable and he can shroud any number of creatures for free, while Mom can only do it once a turn cycle. It also has utility against burn decks so you'll never die to Price of Progress.

kingsey
04-04-2013, 11:21 PM
Ok, let me bring a few points of critique.

1) Eternal Witness: First of all this isn't NicFit where we can get some recurring Engine going, nor do we have Deeds or anything similar, making our Witness a little weaker. It can get countered stuff back, or a Swords to Plowshares from time to time, but I don't think that in a format, where Deathrite Shaman, Rest in Peace and Swords to Plowshares are widely used Witness is any good, unless it enables broken stuff, which it does not.

2) When I looked at your list and saw the lone Mystic I was like "Oh, I'm sure he is running some Sword or the Skull in the Side, or simply a Jitte/Sword-split" - which you do not. Based on my experience Stoneforge Mystic (especially with only one target) is no good in Maverick. We simply don't have the time/mana to waste 6 Mana on a Jitte, instead of 4, just for the bonus of it being uncounterable. I'd just play more Jittes if you feel so, or play a completly different card here. (or maybe run a SoXaY in the side?)

3) So if we cut these slots we have 2 free slots. What to play in them? Well I'd probably play 1 Mother of Runes and 1 Scavening Ooze in there. Mother of Runes OtP is like superhard to handle for any Shamandeck, and Ooze is just nice too, countering any Shamanactivation for a mere G. In addition to this the Ooze acts as additional MB GY-hate and good creatures vs any Tempodeck.

I hope my thoughts could help you a little.

Greetings

I agree, cut SFM add 1 more mother of runes.

Also have you thought about elspeth maindeck? She's insane

Einherjer
04-05-2013, 01:09 AM
I agree, cut SFM add 1 more mother of runes.

Also have you thought about elspeth maindeck? She's insane

Yep, true, the 3rd Ooze could aswell be an Elspeth, shoring up the UWx and BGx MU even a little more, makes sense :)

Greetings

lordofthepit
04-05-2013, 04:02 AM
2) When I looked at your list and saw the lone Mystic I was like "Oh, I'm sure he is running some Sword or the Skull in the Side, or simply a Jitte/Sword-split" - which you do not. Based on my experience Stoneforge Mystic (especially with only one target) is no good in Maverick. We simply don't have the time/mana to waste 6 Mana on a Jitte, instead of 4, just for the bonus of it being uncounterable. I'd just play more Jittes if you feel so, or play a completly different card here. (or maybe run a SoXaY in the side?)

I've seen some lists run a single copy of Fauna Shaman, which will allow you to slowly convert your Green Sun's Zenith for a Jitte. I think that's a valid reason to include a lone Mystic, although the metagame has shifted to the point where you cannot really count on GSZ -> Fauna Shaman -> SFM -> Jitte to not get hit by counter/removal/discard in any matchup where you'd want Jitte.

Manipulato
04-05-2013, 04:32 AM
FYI, Safekeeper is a Human Wizard, Mom is a Human Cleric. Both of them will die to the same EPlague.

The reason you want Safekeeper are that he's tutorable and he can shroud any number of creatures for free, while Mom can only do it once a turn cycle. It also has utility against burn decks so you'll never die to Price of Progress.

Has the Safekeeper a new errata? Because on the card he is just an wizard!

Manipulato
04-05-2013, 04:40 AM
I agree, cut SFM add 1 more mother of runes.

Also have you thought about elspeth maindeck? She's insane

I think 3 Mother´s and the 1off Safekeeper are enough (no one played more than 4 Protectionguys ever...). The 1off SFM is just to increase the possibility to draw a Jitte, because it´s just very important against Esperblade, Jund or any other Midrange/Aggro Deck. I played that version with the 1off SFM a while now and it´s absolutley ok.

But your right the Elspeth main is not bad but i prefer the Garruk for MD at the moment.

What do you guys think about Wilt-Leaf-Liege? He´s absolutly resistent against Bolts, Decays, Discard and neutralice the Plagues because of the +1/+1 ability. I thought of a 2off in the side maybe instead of Linvala

TiltingKitty
04-05-2013, 04:45 AM
Has the Safekeeper a new errata? Because on the card he is just an wizard!

http://gatherer.wizards.com has the up to date errata of every card in the game.

A while back (I think Mirrodin), a ton of cards were changed to have a "species" creature type if they didn't have one before. "Human" was not a widely used creature type back then, which resulted in a lot of creatures (including Mother of Runes and Sylvan Safekeeper) suddenly becoming Humans if they weren't obviously some other fantasy species.

As another example of how the wording printed on the card is not always correct, look at the difference between a 5th edition Sylvan Library and the official wording. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4012http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4012)

Regarding the actual decklist, I might play a Harmonic Sliver over an Oblivion Ring in the sideboard, just because you can GSZ for it.

Manipulato
04-05-2013, 04:52 AM
http://gatherer.wizards.com has the up to date errata of every card in the game.

A while back (I think Mirrodin), a ton of cards were changed to have a "species" creature type if they didn't have one before. "Human" was not a widely used creature type back then, which resulted in a lot of creatures (including Mother of Runes and Sylvan Safekeeper) suddenly becoming Humans if they weren't obviously some other fantasy species.

As another example of how the wording printed on the card is not always correct, look at the difference between a 5th edition Sylvan Library and the official wording. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4012http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4012)

Regarding the actual decklist, I might play a Harmonic Sliver over an Oblivion Ring in the sideboard, just because you can GSZ for it.

Great Thanks! Good to know because of Cavern^^
Harmonic Sliver is not bad but i play the O-RIngs because of Emrakul...moreover i have pridemage for that szenario instead of the sliver...

Asthereal
04-05-2013, 05:16 AM
I've seen some lists run a single copy of Fauna Shaman, which will allow you to slowly convert your Green Sun's Zenith for a Jitte. I think that's a valid reason to include a lone Mystic, although the metagame has shifted to the point where you cannot really count on GSZ -> Fauna Shaman -> SFM -> Jitte to not get hit by counter/removal/discard in any matchup where you'd want Jitte.
I've cut the Fauna Shaman for this exact reason.
The process of getting what you need is often just too slow, and gets interrupted somewhere along the way.

diakocjay
04-06-2013, 11:53 PM
I would like to ask for your help with Engineered Plague, it really wipes my board since most of our creatures are humans. Here is the most frequent scenario that I have against BUG.

Turn 1: Fetch then casts Deathrite Shaman.
Turn 2: Play land, taps Deathrite for mana, then casts Engineered Plague.

After that, its really hard for me to get back on the game.

Lord_Mcdonalds
04-07-2013, 01:21 AM
I hear Qasali Pridemage is good.

BlackFlameAshura
04-07-2013, 02:34 AM
So I wound up playing Maverick again this week and wound up 2-2, barely squeeze into top 8, and go 2-0-1 for the split in the finals.

I'll try updating with a bit more of an effective tourney report in the morning when I'm a bit more alert but here's how it kinda went:

Round 1 - UB Control Homebrew 0-0-0

This match had me trying to figure him out a bit. When I saw the Watery Graves and the like come down I was preparing for Reanimator, but when I started seeing the Lim-Dul's Vaults and Innocent Bloods I figured this wasn't the case. Within the first couple of turns I dropped down Gaddock Teeg, mostly because he was one of the only cards in my hand I could play at the moment, and it just happened to pretty much shut him down entirely so long as I kept my board state up and won. Game 2 I pretty quickly found out why Teeg shut him down so bad: He was playing Leyline/Helm with a control package to support it all the way through. It killed me quick this game and we moved to round three. I start with a Noble Hierarch which he promptly Forces. The following turn I drop Teeg and while he has the Force he's not at all able to play it because he lacks another blue card. When I Surgical Extraction his Mishra's Factory (which may be a problem getting damage through otherwise) he also reveals Helm AND Leyline and also had the Doom Blade on top that I made him shuffle away. The rest of the game was tough because I was just barely able to keep my board up enough that his sac removal couldn't hit Teeg and make me lose. 2-1

Round 2 - UB Reanimator 1-0-0

This matchup was good since I was playing against my best friend who I'm always playtesting against so we both knew the ins and outs of each other's decks and were pretty solidly matched as a result. Game one I had the constant active Deathrites to get around his reanimations. Game two I wasn't so lucky and he beat me out with Griselbrand before I had the opportunity to do anything. I tried to Surgical it but he was able to counter it. The game three was very tricky. I got the active Deathrite very early on and when he Entombed Griselbrand I was able to get off a Surgical and blow all of them away but before we could go anywhere from there, he cast Pithing Needle calling Deathrite Shaman. I got the Qasali Pridemage but he had a second Needle and then was able to reanimate Elesh Norn, wiping my board, to which I was unable to come back from. 1-2

Round 3 - Shardless BUG 1-1-0

Frankly this matchup is a bit of a blur right now. He was basically in short able to drop dudes faster than I was and which were bigger than mine so he was able to take me down very fast in the game one and two. Back to back Ancestral Visions hurt pretty bad at the end of the second game, though, for sure. 0-2

Round 4 - UWr Delver 1-2-0

This matchup was fun. Game one he got ridiculously mana flooded and I was able to push past his guys after awhile and kill him. Game two was where it got really interesting, though. He sided in a LOT more equipments, having 3 Swords (Fire and Ice, Feast and Famine, and Body and Mind) in addition to Jitte and Batterskull. Very early on I dropped Tower of the Magistrate which came in from my board. He didn't realize that this made all the equipments fall off if I gave his guy pro artifacts with it so he a little confused when he tried attacking and I made them all fall off. He was able to get an early couple of Swords and Jitte, though, which made it only a matter of time before this went bad. I got my Maze of Ith, thankfully and then, of all things, Pernicious Deed, which I promply dropped and blew for three. From there, both of us got mana flooded and I was able to get the bigger guys out faster with Knight of the Reliquary and my Tower/Maze package and beat him right at time got called but everyone around us was really enjoying watching the match. Definitely the highlight of the night. 2-0

So it was four rounds and cut to top 8. With a 2-2 record, I made 9th place. Buuut, as they were getting set up to play, they realized one of the people who made the top 8 just left which knocked him out of the top and allowed me to squeeze into top 8 and play for bigger prizes.

Round 5 - RUG Delver 2-2-0

An obviously decent matchup, I got the play and he mulled to four. This pretty much led to him not being able to do a thing as I continuously dropped dudes and kept attacking. Stoneforge got Batterskull, I got an attack or two in and we just very quickly moved to game two. This game found me with a Cavern of Souls calling Human, effectively not allowing him to stop the multiple Mother of Runes, the Thalia, the Hierarch, and the Knight of the Reliquaries I was dropping. The only creature he was able to get the entire game was a Tarmogoyf which I promptly Swords'd. 2-0

Round 6 - MUD 3-2-0

This was against another of my friends. He very quickly tried getting a Crucible/Wasteland lock going but I Qasali Pridemaged the Crucible before he could get it going. From there I was able to get some decent sized creatures and also keep his mana shut down with my own Wastelands. Once Batterskull hit with multiple exalted triggers on board, it was pretty much over and we went to game 2. This game went very much in a similar direction but I was able to instead get multiple Knight of the Reliquaries and take him down to 8 with a few unblocked attacks and then swing in for an even 8 with a Knight of the Reliquary and a Tower of the Magistrate to get her through. Since I'm kinda glossing over these quick he can feel more than happy to add to this. 2-0

So I wound up in the finals as a result and we agreed to split since the difference was so minute. I was happy for this too since the alternative was play Combo Elves which I historically have had a pretty lousy MU against. So I wound up 4-2 with $20 store credit and a Breeding Pool from my free Gatecrash pack tonight and it was pretty great.

Also, as a last little thing, I don't know how many of you frequent Reddit at all, but I got this new mat in last week after I found the image online and realized I must have it since Maverick is my main deck. Figure you guys might enjoy it: http://i.imgur.com/qVfXzm5.jpg

diakocjay
04-07-2013, 11:00 AM
I hear Qasali Pridemage is good.

it is good but is there any other way for a punishing mav player to avoid the wipe? it sweeps noble and mom, in which we lose tempo.

Manipulato
04-08-2013, 02:51 PM
Hey Guys,
How would you build the SB against the expected field for GP Strassbourg leaned back on Carsten cotters article? My current MD list is a page ago...
Do you think there is space for Armageddon, linvala, ensnaring bridge or Wild-leaf liege?

Hencules
04-12-2013, 09:49 AM
Does the spoiled Voice of Resurgence do anything substantial in this deck? It seems like a huge card.

TiltingKitty
04-12-2013, 05:00 PM
Does the spoiled Voice of Resurgence do anything substantial in this deck? It seems like a huge card.

From what I can see, the only decks it affects are those that 1) care about large vanilla dorks and 2) don't have access to Swords to Plowshares. It's probably a must-counter threat against RUG, since they need a Bolt ASAP or all their counterspells give you free advantage, but I don't see it being worth a slot against anyone else.

Ecstatic_Conch
04-12-2013, 05:33 PM
Does the spoiled Voice of Resurgence do anything substantial in this deck? It seems like a huge card.

I don't think it's good enough. To fit the strict criteria of playable creature in this deck, it has to be either be
1. Resilient
2. A hate bear/disruption
3. Significant must answer threat on it's own
4. Protection
5. Acceleration (I.E. noble hierarch)
You have to assume they'll play around the ability and cast things at sorcery speed. It's resilient, but notice how it says when it dies create the token and not when it leaves play. If it said the latter it would be much better because of things like swords to plowshares. And the token likely won't get very big unless you're overextending which is a bad idea. So it's kind of resilient, but most of the time it's just going to be a grizzly bear and you'll be wishing you're playing something else.

KobeBryan
04-13-2013, 12:35 AM
Card is useless.

What card in maverick is a MUST answer on the opponent's turn, meaning the opponent playing maverick.

Every card can wait until its your turn.

kingtk3
04-13-2013, 06:38 AM
And now the deck is back to DTB: what do you think the main reason is? The deck is basically the same as months before and the other DTB are almost the same as before too.
Has the maverick players learned to play against jund and the various form of BUG or the abrupt decay/DRS boom has ended and people just resume Mav?
What do you think?

ThePrevailer
04-13-2013, 08:27 PM
Glad to see Maverick as a DTB again.

Honestly, I think it's less because players learned to fight Decays and Shamans, and more because player (myself included) have just started running their own.

Question: I've been having a hell of a time beating decks super heavy on removal: Jund and Punishing RUG. Is it worth it to add a hexproof guy like Thrun or Sigarda? I've been going without and running a more streamlined list, but there are times I wish I had an answer, and against big mana decks like Nic Fit, it'd be nice to have Sigarda even though I think she costs to much to ever get vs. RUG....

Arsenal
04-15-2013, 12:50 PM
I just finished off my playset of Savannah, so I want to use them and Maverick seems like the place for that. I have access to the Deathrite Shaman/Abrupt Decay build, but having just finished with Junk for months, I want to stay away from that if I can. I also don't have access to the Punishing Fires build, so straight GW Maverick is what I'm looking at. This is what I'm thinking of running:

Maindeck - 60

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

2 Umezawa’s Jitte

2 Sylvan Library

4 Green Sun’s Zenith

1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard - 15

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dueling Grounds
2 Choke
3 Rest in Peace

I'm thinking of running Ooze, but I do not have Gaea's Cradle. Do I need to Cradle in order to (effectively) run Ooze? If that is the case, should I cut Ooze and replace him with something else (Goyf?). I really like Ooze, but really dislike Cradle's $100 price tag, so...

Philipp2293
04-15-2013, 01:19 PM
No, you really don't need Cradle to use Ooze. Also, I wouldn't ever consider cutting ooze from the deck.

allek
04-15-2013, 03:45 PM
Finished 98th @Strasbourg (1300+ players), only losses day 2 were to TES where he went off turn two both games (he's on the play), Elves (turn 3 kill with him on play both those games) and Miracles where he fetches and spins the top with zero cards in hand and finds Terminus during my lethal attack. In short, I only lost the really bad match-ups and won all the games I had business winning. A friend top came top 40 with a very similar list, losing to Levy playing Miracles in the last round. The deck is as good as it always has been but this meta is hard unless you know what you're doing.

Also, I only faced RUG once (!!!) in 15 rounds which is a shame because it's the easiest match-up together with merfolk.

sdematt
04-15-2013, 03:59 PM
Play Sigarda. Single-handedly causes Jund to throw up their arms and say, "What the fuck?!"

-Matt

sauce
04-15-2013, 05:07 PM
Top 98'ed @Strasbourg (1300+ players), only losses day 2 were to TES where he went off turn two both games (he's on the play), Elves (turn 3 kill with him on play both those games) and Miracles where he fetches and spins the top with zero cards in hand and finds Terminus during my lethal attack. In short, I only lost the really bad match-ups and won all the games I had business winning. A friend top came top 40 with a very similar list, losing to Levy playing Miracles in the last round. The deck is as good as it always has been but this meta is hard unless you know what you're doing.

Also, I only faced RUG once (!!!) in 15 rounds which is a shame because it's the easiest match-up together with merfolk.

can you please post your 75?

cheers

Arsenal
04-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Versus ANT postboard, knowing that they've boarded in Abrupt Decay, which line of play do you choose (assuming you're on the play).

You 1: Windswept Heath -> Savannah, Mother of Runes, pass.
Them 1: Polluted Delta -> Island, Ponder, pass.
You 2: Forest, tap 2 to play Thalia with Mother of Runes able to protect from Abrupt Decay.

Or, do you go for the riskier play of:

You 1: Windswept Heath -> Savannah, Noble Hierarch, pass.
Them 1: Polluted Delta -> Underground Sea, Ponder, pass.
You 2: Wasteland their Sea, then cast Thalia.

Assuming you opened with those cards, do you ever go for the riskier (but more rewarding) play that they'll walk into Wasteland like in scenario 2 or just always go for the safer route in scenario 1? I feel scenario 1 is the better play as if they did fetch an Underground Sea, I can just waste it on my next turn, although I won't be swinging for as much (2 versus the Exalted 3).

phazonmutant
04-15-2013, 05:38 PM
Versus ANT postboard, knowing that they've boarded in Abrupt Decay, which line of play do you choose (assuming you're on the play).

You 1: Windswept Heath -> Savannah, Mother of Runes, pass.
Them 1: Polluted Delta -> Island, Ponder, pass.
You 2: Forest, tap 2 to play Thalia with Mother of Runes able to protect from Abrupt Decay.

Or, do you go for the riskier play of:

You 1: Windswept Heath -> Savannah, Noble Hierarch, pass.
Them 1: Polluted Delta -> Underground Sea, Ponder, pass.
You 2: Wasteland their Sea, then cast Thalia.

Assuming you opened with those cards, do you ever go for the riskier (but more rewarding) play that they'll walk into Wasteland like in scenario 2 or just always go for the safer route in scenario 1? I feel scenario 1 is the better play as if they did fetch an Underground Sea, I can just waste it on my next turn, although I won't be swinging for as much (2 versus the Exalted 3).

1 is by far the better play. ANT plays 15 lands and a cantrip means they're very likely to have another land. If they're in a position to go off quickly, they'll need Thresh'd Cabal Ritual, and Wasting a Sea helps that goal. They also play 4 Lotus Petal, so it's going to be hard to keep them off IMSs. As long as you can stop them from killing your hatebears, you'll win (barring corner cases with extreme amounts of mana).
Also since you're on the play you're pretty much guaranteed to have another turn - they can't cast 2 Chain of Vapors until turn 3 at earliest if they're willing to burn a Petal - so you can just Waste them next turn.

Goin Aggro
04-15-2013, 06:05 PM
1 is by far the better play. ANT plays 15 lands and a cantrip means they're very likely to have another land. If they're in a position to go off quickly, they'll need Thresh'd Cabal Ritual, and Wasting a Sea helps that goal. They also play 4 Lotus Petal, so it's going to be hard to keep them off IMSs. As long as you can stop them from killing your hatebears, you'll win (barring corner cases with extreme amounts of mana).
Also since you're on the play you're pretty much guaranteed to have another turn - they can't cast 2 Chain of Vapors until turn 3 at earliest if they're willing to burn a Petal - so you can just Waste them next turn.


I disagree wholeheartedly. I think the second play is much, much better.

If you're on the play and set up a board position of you with Savannah, Hierarch, Thalia, and them with nothing, you're extremely favored to win that game. They cannot cast anything really meaningful for two turns at the very least. and if they do, they'll be wasting precious resources and storm count (Cantrips, Petals) on simply establishing time parity. The second play at the very least, will put them at give or take 10 life before they can interact with you, and if you can play anything else meaningful over the next two turns, (Any sort of postboard hate or additional pressure/lifegain), they'll be hard pressed to catch up.

While the deck does play 15 lands, They're already down to 13 lands in the remaining 57 cards that they have available to them. Give or take only 7 of which actually produce mana. While they may make the next land drop, if it is a fetch, they only have 11 lands left in the deck of 49 cards. They need, at the very least, two lands in play to actually have game against Thalia. And they'll have to prioritize those lands over everything else, making them less able to sculpt with cantrips/brainstorm.

If they were in any sort of position to go off quickly, they'd have done it on the first turn, and the double whammy of being down a land and having to pay extra for everything with Thalia is a stumbling situation that will just cut some decks off at the knees.

Gotta
04-16-2013, 09:18 AM
Hi everyone,

I managed to finish 38th at GP Strasbourg :)

Here is my list:

4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
3 Forest
1 Plains
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eiganjo Castle

4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thrun, the Last Troll


SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives

useL
04-16-2013, 10:07 AM
Glad to see Maverick as a DTB again.

Honestly, I think it's less because players learned to fight Decays and Shamans, and more because player (myself included) have just started running their own.

Question: I've been having a hell of a time beating decks super heavy on removal: Jund and Punishing RUG. Is it worth it to add a hexproof guy like Thrun or Sigarda? I've been going without and running a more streamlined list, but there are times I wish I had an answer, and against big mana decks like Nic Fit, it'd be nice to have Sigarda even though I think she costs to much to ever get vs. RUG....

I won about 10 duels during GP Strasbourg with either Sigarda or Thrun. Zenith on 5 closes almost all games that are grindy.

Koby
04-16-2013, 12:32 PM
Versus ANT postboard, knowing that they've boarded in Abrupt Decay, which line of play do you choose (assuming you're on the play).

You 1: Windswept Heath -> Savannah, Mother of Runes, pass.
Them 1: Polluted Delta -> Island, Ponder, pass.
You 2: Forest, tap 2 to play Thalia with Mother of Runes able to protect from Abrupt Decay.

Or, do you go for the riskier play of:

You 1: Windswept Heath -> Savannah, Noble Hierarch, pass.
Them 1: Polluted Delta -> Underground Sea, Ponder, pass.
You 2: Wasteland their Sea, then cast Thalia.

Assuming you opened with those cards, do you ever go for the riskier (but more rewarding) play that they'll walk into Wasteland like in scenario 2 or just always go for the safer route in scenario 1? I feel scenario 1 is the better play as if they did fetch an Underground Sea, I can just waste it on my next turn, although I won't be swinging for as much (2 versus the Exalted 3).

Let's start with the similarity - Thalia on turn 2. ANT and TES both have trouble against this card. They have 3 possible ways to interact with Thalia:
1) Chain of Vapor (:1::u:)
2) Dread of Night (:1::b:) - not as common today, so...
2a) Massacre (:1:)
3) Abrupt Decay (:1::g::b:)
4) Karakas (which both scenarios do nothing against)

Let's assume that Maverick's hand contains:
Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Thalia, Wasteland, fetchland; This gives two possible turn 1 plays, and each their own path.

Assuming again that Maverick is on the play for this game.

The best line of play would be Fetch->Sav, Noble Hierarch on turn 1, then Thalia + Wasteland on Turn 2. Depending on the land played by the combo player, either use Wasteland to LD, or tap Wasteland to cast Thalia and also cast Mother of Runes. While this play is completely dead to Dread of Night and Massacre, these two cards have seen less play as Maverick has diminished its metagame presence. This gives the most pressure on ANT/TES.

This has nothing to do with a safer play, but more to do with buying more time. Hierarch-Thalia gives you the opportunity to Wasteland on turn 2, which is more important and buys more time than protecting Thalia from spells. Thalia already protects herself from most spells that could interact with her, so the Mother of Runes is redundant for Turn 2.

Arsenal
04-16-2013, 12:40 PM
Interesting to read peoples' different opinions. Now, same set of cards, but this time, Maverick is on the draw. Changes?

Koby
04-16-2013, 12:45 PM
Interesting to read peoples' different opinions. Now, same set of cards, but this time, Maverick is on the draw. Changes?

Using the same hand? Then, no unlikely any change to the play. Being on the draw means you're half a turn behind and the best way to remedy that is by playing Hierarch to gain the tempo back. Being on the draw against a storm deck is usually a death sentence too.

Fatal
04-16-2013, 02:25 PM
I have interesting list which need more testing and tweaking:


2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Natural Order
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Plains
2 Forest
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
3 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
3 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

\\SB
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thrun, the Last Troll


Like You see there is major change - I add Natural Order with mostly 2 targets:
-Sigarda, Host of Herons - its really good vs grindy MU only Terminus/Supreme Verdict can answer it
-Craterhoof Behemoth - this is tech from combo elves - its mostly lethal after it lands - this tech gives speed vs all fair MU, adding sometimes turn 4 kills.

other tech to support I add Gaea's Cradle (normally its useful only with equipments, but I mostly abandon it to gain consistence, here it back) with is amazing with Lingering Souls, most list running Deathrite Shaman, with little black splash its easy to flashback. In this case with Cradle you can simply hardcast Behemoth from hand. 3 Stoneforge Mystics are needed to long grindy MU where tokens from lingering souls are not just 1/1 flyers. Decreasing value from Knight of the Reliquary by Deathrite Shamans which are almost everywhere force constructors to find other ways to victory ;].

SB is still messy - I like Wilt-Leaf Liege actually Hymn of Tourach are common in more decks then usual - BUG tempo/BUG Control/Jund even in Esper sometimes, Get Wilt-Leaf Liege(specially vs decks which doesn't have access to StP) on turn 2, casting Lingering Souls to get 2 2/2 flyers is mostly gg for those decks.

GL with testing and remember have fun killing with flying 6/6 trample Spirits :]

Arsenal
04-16-2013, 04:40 PM
I see that there are a few flex slots that people can play around with. Any thought ever given to Reveillark as a 1-of? Casting cost may be prohibitive, but there are tons of targets in Maverick (Thalia, KotR, Pridemage, Ooze, Stoneforge, Teeg, Scryb Ranger, Aven Mindcensor, etc), it's a beefy 4/3 Flyer, and it can't be played around easily once resolved (Jace Unsummon, StP, blink effects, etc). Or just Evoke it and get back 2x KotR that were countered/Abrupt Decayed earlier. I feel like this might be too cute, but as a 1-of you probably won't see this until late game anyway and it's trigger can be devastating to your opponent.

EDIT: @Gotta, Eiganjo Castle looks interesting, but space for utility lands is pretty tight as it is. Did it ever matter or was it just a non-basic, Legendary Plains most games?

Gotta
04-17-2013, 04:58 AM
EDIT: @Gotta, Eiganjo Castle looks interesting, but space for utility lands is pretty tight as it is. Did it ever matter or was it just a non-basic, Legendary Plains most games?

Since nobody actually casted pyroclasm, It never matter. Although it allowed Thalia to attack few times without being killed.

Arsenal
04-17-2013, 09:15 AM
So I cracked and got a Gaea's Cradle (tax return money, yay!). This is my manabase (I have 1 Dryad Arbor, but I put that in the creature section):

1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland

I feel like cutting the Horizon Canopy for Gaea's Cradle would be the move to make, but I'm not sure... any thoughts from Gaea's Cradle players?

Asthereal
04-17-2013, 12:59 PM
So I cracked and got a Gaea's Cradle (tax return money, yay!). This is my manabase (I have 1 Dryad Arbor, but I put that in the creature section):

1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland

I feel like cutting the Horizon Canopy for Gaea's Cradle would be the move to make, but I'm not sure... any thoughts from Gaea's Cradle players?
I'd recommend changing the Maze for the Cradle, moving the Maze to the sideboard (or just plainly cutting it). I feel that Maze is sometimes really good, but often unnecessary. It also messes up our mana development, since it uses up a land drop.

But cutting the Canopy is also an option. I don't play any of the utility lands anymore except for one Karakas. I actually also don;t play Cavern of Souls. I feel a mana base with lots of fetch and basics is very stable and smooth, and not having to care about awkward mana choices helps me focus on the important bits of pilotting Maverick (which is a lot harder than it may look for an outsider!).

Fade
04-17-2013, 01:03 PM
So I cracked and got a Gaea's Cradle (tax return money, yay!). This is my manabase (I have 1 Dryad Arbor, but I put that in the creature section):

1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland

I feel like cutting the Horizon Canopy for Gaea's Cradle would be the move to make, but I'm not sure... any thoughts from Gaea's Cradle players?

The manabase I play is -1 Green Fetch +1 Gaea's Cradle.

ironclad8690
04-17-2013, 05:24 PM
I'd recommend changing the Maze for the Cradle, moving the Maze to the sideboard (or just plainly cutting it). I feel that Maze is sometimes really good, but often unnecessary. It also messes up our mana development, since it uses up a land drop.

But cutting the Canopy is also an option. I don't play any of the utility lands anymore except for one Karakas. I actually also don;t play Cavern of Souls. I feel a mana base with lots of fetch and basics is very stable and smooth, and not having to care about awkward mana choices helps me focus on the important bits of pilotting Maverick (which is a lot harder than it may look for an outsider!).

But cavern of souls is so nice in RUG and Tempo (merfolk, team america, etc) getting your knights and thalias through. I am probably just biased since I bought two cavern of souls and they are $20, then again sometimes I play the punishing version which definitely makes them less attractive.

useL
04-18-2013, 04:12 AM
But cavern of souls is so nice in RUG and Tempo (merfolk, team america, etc) getting your knights and thalias through. I am probably just biased since I bought two cavern of souls and they are $20, then again sometimes I play the punishing version which definitely makes them less attractive.

You absolutely want to play Cavern of Souls. Don't question it. Pushing out uncounterable dudes vs Counterbalance lock or against RUG is worth everything. 2 is the correct number.

pingpong
04-18-2013, 08:22 AM
Has anybody tried wolf run ??

I could see the basics being

1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Plains (I play mirran crusader)

And then just taking out maze of ith depending on the meta.

Thoughts??

Arsenal
04-18-2013, 10:42 AM
So I cut Horizon Canopy for Gaea's Cradle and never really missed it, so I think that was the right call. Also, Gaea's Cradle is absolutely insane; being able to activate Ooze, GSZ, and/or hardcast creatures all in the same turn is just too much for most decks to handle. Also, Scryb Ranger is really, really good with an active KotR... thinking of maybe going up to 2 with Ranger; flying, flash Equipment holder that can't be Jace bounced or blocked by Clique shouldn't be overlooked...

haganbmj
04-18-2013, 11:57 AM
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Batterskull
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Forest
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
__
Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Crop Rotation
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Terravore
3 Oblivion Ring

Just a small tournament report here, we had fewer than usual people (17 compared to high 20s, low 30s), so only three rounds and a cut to top 8 this week.
As a forewarning, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of my storm matches - games kind of meshed together. I'm sure I could check my lifepad and remember each game.

Having split top 4 the previous two weeks I was feeling pretty good with my local matchups going into this, but it's always a toss up. So many of the local players have access to numerous decks and switch week to week.
One week we'll have 3 guys on Show and Tell, 4 Guys on Storm, and the next it'll be 4 on Stoneblade and 5 on RUG.

Last Week
2-1 v Miracles
2-0 v RUG Delver player 1
2-0 v 4c Cascade
ID into top 8 w/ RUG Delver player 2
2-0 v RUG Delver player 3
Split top 4



Round 1 vs TES (phazonmuant)
(See his Write-Up (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23361-Deck-T-E-S-The-EPIC-Storm&p=719143&viewfull=1#post719143) on our matches to get a more accurate description of his hands)
G1: (On the draw) I lead off on Mom with the intent of a turn 2 Thalia, he silences me turn 2 so I play Dryad Arbor. Kills me on his t3.
Sideboard:
+3 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +3 Surgical Extraction, +1 Crop Rotation, +1 Bojuka Bog
-4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Maze of Ith, -1 Scryb Ranger, -1 Life from the Loam, -1 Sword of Light and Shadow, -1 Sylvan Library

G2: (On the play) I mull into a turn 2 Gaddock Teeg hand, but he makes 14 Goblins on his turn 1.

0-1


Round 2 vs ANT
G1: (On the draw) I keep a hand that's fine against RUG Delver as that's what he played last week. He instead leads off on Polluted Delta->Island->Ponder and I put him on Sneak & Show as I've seen him play it before. I start off with a Mother into Pridemage and little pressure. He drops an Underground Sea and now I'm really not sure what he's doing, he Preordains twice and then plays a turn 3 Personal Tutor (for Infernal Tutor). I wasteland his U-Sea and put him to 15 life before passing the turn.
He has something like Double Dark Rit, LED, IT (crack for black), Ad Nauseam (with 2 Black floating unless I'm mistaken) from 15 life. He winds up hitting like 3 cantrips, 2 ITs, Tendrils, and one IMS. At 4 life he decides he has to go for it and flips land, land, past in flames.
Sideboard:
+3 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +3 Surgical Extraction, +1 Crop Rotation, +1 Bojuka Bog
-4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Maze of Ith, -1 Scryb Ranger, -1 Life from the Loam, -1 Sword of Light and Shadow, -1 Sylvan Library

G2: My hand is like... Verdant Catacombs, Savannah, Noble Hiearch, Thalia, Ethersworn, GSZ, Knight?
He leads off on a Dread of Night again and I play a Hierarch. He Preordains and passes back. I play Ethersworn Canonist and attack in for 1. He plays another Ponder then tries to Thoughtseize me, I gesture to the Canonist and he passes the turn instead. On my turn I Green Sun for Gaddock (which I think I should have gone for Sylvan Safekeeper instead).
Game ends a few turns later after I bash him for a few points each turn and he can't find a second Dread of Night.

1-1


Round 3 vs Deadguy Ale w/ Green
(for Deathrite, Abrupt Decay)
G1: I play a turn 2 Stoneforge which he Abrupt Decays, I take the opportunity to land Sylvan Library and proceed to take over the game with bigger dudes while finding 2 Swords to deal with his threats.
Sideboard:
+1 Ulvenwald Tracker, +1 Umezawa's Jitte, +1 Terravore
-1 Life from the Loam, -1 Gaddock Teeg, -1 Thalia?
I debated taking out a Scavenging Ooze here instead of Thalia... as Thalia helps to screw him off Lingering Souls and Abrupt Decay, but he was fetching around wasteland so I figured the mana denial wasn't the line to take. Scavenging Ooze has play against Lingering Souls, Cabal Therapy, and Deathrite Shaman - so I figured it would be better in the long run.
The Tracker was good, even though I knew he was bringing in Zealous Persecution, as it is able to shoot down every one of his creatures unless he burns removal on it. I played it game 2 here, but he had the Persecution before I was able to set up and knock down his Stoneforge.

G2: He cracks 2 Marsh Flats to get Plains, Swamp and then plays a Wasteland. I waste his waste and he never plays another land. Knight of the Reliquary and Batterskull get there. He shows me a hand of double Abrupt Decay and Perish after the match.

He never saw a Dark Confidant this match, while I was able to gain some advantage through Sylvan Library, and I was able to deal with his Stoneforge Mystics and the 1 Hero of Bladehold I saw.


Cut to top 8

Quarterfinals vs TES (phazonmuant)
G1: He's on the play and Nauseams turn 2 into the win.
Sideboard: Same as before

G2: I'm on the play and lead off on Hierarch. He Ponders then ships back. I play Thalia and Sylvan Safekeeper. He spends a few turns laying out Chrome Moxes and Lotus Petals while I attack him for 4 on a double exalted Thalia. He then plays Dark Rit, Dark Rit, Rite of Flame, Empty (I believe) - to make 8 Goblins with 1 card left in hand. I attack in with Thalia and he blocks with all 8, I kill off half of them and play another Thalia.
I Green Sun for a Pridemage and destroy his LED then attempt to Surgical Extraction it. He scoops.

G3: I keep a hand that has Extraction, Crop Rotation, Gaddock Teeg. He Emptys on turn 2 unless I'm mistaken.




The graveyard hate isn't the greatest here, but it can be situationally good. It was fine against ANT because of his Cabal Rituals and such. It's certainly better than my mainboard cards though.


I'm fairly pleased with the deck so far, feels like I have a fair chance in every matchup. I'd like to have a way to ensure getting to turn 2 against storm, but what're you gonna do.

Arsenal
04-18-2013, 12:04 PM
Regarding Graveyard hate, I've noticed that many combo decks (that care about their yard) will make sure the coast is clear using Probe/Duress/Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy/etc. If my graveyard hate piece gets ripped, it gets ripped. I've been looking at Purify the Grave as a way to "answer" getting Duressed. Assuming I have a land in play (hopefully), if they Duress and I'm holding Purify the Grave, I can still interact (somewhat) with my opponent and that may buy me 1-2 turns while they figure out how to get around Purify's flashback. Idk, just spitballing, but having played with Surgical Extraction in other decks, I find that it doesn't even matter sometimes when I get it discards (or I have to respond and use it on something completely worthless or just plain lose it) whereas I feel Purify the Grave might still have some value.

haganbmj
04-18-2013, 01:00 PM
Regarding Graveyard hate, I've noticed that many combo decks (that care about their yard) will make sure the coast is clear using Probe/Duress/Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy/etc. If my graveyard hate piece gets ripped, it gets ripped. I've been looking at Purify the Grave as a way to "answer" getting Duressed. Assuming I have a land in play (hopefully), if they Duress and I'm holding Purify the Grave, I can still interact (somewhat) with my opponent and that may buy me 1-2 turns while they figure out how to get around Purify's flashback. Idk, just spitballing, but having played with Surgical Extraction in other decks, I find that it doesn't even matter sometimes when I get it discards (or I have to respond and use it on something completely worthless or just plain lose it) whereas I feel Purify the Grave might still have some value.

I've never been impressed by Surgical against combo. You're exactly right in their ability to play around gravehate. I've enjoyed Surgical against RUG Delver and the like though as a means of cutting them off green, or taking out Lightning Bolts or other relevant cards. I intend to cut down the number of Surgicals in my sideboard, though, and maybe I'll try going back to a Purify the Grave again.

Arsenal
04-18-2013, 01:20 PM
I suppose I'll try a 2/2 split between Surgical and Purify. I like that I can Surgical on turn 0 if needed, but I also like Purify giving me extra value off flashback if my opponent discards/counters it. If my opponent discards/counters my cast-from-hand Purify, and can still combo through my flashbacked Purify, then he's got the nuts and there's not a whole lot you can do about that.

EDIT: Although it may hurt us a bit, ever thought of Rest in Piece in the sideboard? Making our KotR 2/2 sucks hard, but probably sucks less than what Rest in Peace can do to Dredge, TinFins/Reanimator, shuts of Past in Flames, etc. Not sure if it's good enough, but seems strong.

haganbmj
04-18-2013, 07:07 PM
I suppose I'll try a 2/2 split between Surgical and Purify. I like that I can Surgical on turn 0 if needed, but I also like Purify giving me extra value off flashback if my opponent discards/counters it. If my opponent discards/counters my cast-from-hand Purify, and can still combo through my flashbacked Purify, then he's got the nuts and there's not a whole lot you can do about that.

EDIT: Although it may hurt us a bit, ever thought of Rest in Piece in the sideboard? Making our KotR 2/2 sucks hard, but probably sucks less than what Rest in Peace can do to Dredge, TinFins/Reanimator, shuts of Past in Flames, etc. Not sure if it's good enough, but seems strong.

The problem I had last time I played Purify the Grave was that it didn't work well with Thalia (when I was playing 3). It became difficult to keep up Purify mana while still playing my own gameplan and putting a clock on board.

Rest in Peace is fine, I've seen talk of that before, because it is often just an unexpected trump in those matches. I find I win the reanimator matchup more through 2-3 points a turn in bear beats than I do with a 5/5 Knight of the Reliquary.
That being said, I don't want to bring in Rest in Peace except where it is a game-winner, Surgical (and Purify to a degree) is a fairly versatile sideboard card.

Arsenal
04-19-2013, 03:53 PM
So what are the pros/cons of Classic Maverick vs. Punishing Maverick vs. Deathrite Maverick? Which matchups does one shine while the other(s) don't? What metas are friendliest to each deck?

ironclad8690
04-19-2013, 04:58 PM
So what are the pros/cons of Classic Maverick vs. Punishing Maverick vs. Deathrite Maverick? Which matchups does one shine while the other(s) don't? What metas are friendliest to each deck?

My $0.02:

GW: Better vs combo/control. Very stable and consistent manabase, ability to run 4 wasteland.

GWr Punishing: Better vs aggro/midrange, often have answers to troublesome creatures such as Deathrite Shaman. Also gives you pyroblast out of the board to deal with show and tell/jace.

GWb Shaman Mav: Not exactly sure where it falls in the metagame. Abrupt decay increases strength against tempo/counterbalance. Engineered plague out of board good vs stoneblade/tribal.

Just a small summary :)

useL
04-19-2013, 05:08 PM
Play Rest in Peace in your sideboards people. I used three in Strasbourg and they were the nuts. Came in against BUG/RUG/Reanimator/Storm etc. Just board out 1 knight and 1 ooze and something random (Against most of those decks I took out Sigarda) and win from there. 2/2 knight doesnt matter if their goyf is 0/1, mongoose is 1/1, reanimation spells doesnt work and storm cant use past in flames/cabal ritual.

Zupponn
04-20-2013, 11:08 AM
It would be funny to see someone play Aurelia's Fury in the middle of a storm player's combo.

defector
04-20-2013, 01:38 PM
I'm totally being the early adopter here and I went and bought 4 Skylasher on preorder. I think this guy could really have a home in Mav. Have I lost my shit or am i just ahead of the curve? Anyone else look at this cute lil spider? I'm thinking of running him in a classic G/W shell with SFM package and a sword main to make him a legit clock. I feel like in the DRS meta that we live inn that we need a non GY driven secondary win con.
cheers
defector

TheInfamousBearAssassin
04-20-2013, 01:54 PM
So what are the pros/cons of Classic Maverick vs. Punishing Maverick vs. Deathrite Maverick? Which matchups does one shine while the other(s) don't? What metas are friendliest to each deck?

Deathrite, assuming you're going black, gives you reach, powerful cards like discard, Abrupt Decay and possibly Lilliana, and requires you to cut slots so you're basically not just running the same goddamn lists people were playing in 2011 and wondering why this un-adapating clunk machine isn't winning anymore.

Barbed Blightning
04-21-2013, 10:14 AM
Deathrite, assuming you're going black, gives you reach, powerful cards like discard, Abrupt Decay and possibly Lilliana, and requires you to cut slots so you're basically not just running the same goddamn lists people were playing in 2011 and wondering why this un-adapating clunk machine isn't winning anymore.

Here's an opinionated post.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
04-21-2013, 02:42 PM
Me? Never.

kai_nsane
04-21-2013, 04:20 PM
defector

I'm totally being the early adopter here and I went and bought 4 Skylasher on preorder.

I think Skylasher is just a Sideboard option for Maverick, because Scryb Ranger+CoS is just better.


What do you Guys think about Huntmaster of the Fells. Is he worth to play in Punishing Maverick? I think he can finish Games alone. Just play him. Wait a turn. He transforms. If the Opponent cast more than 2 spells you get tokens and life. Then just wait your turn, and the opponent lose life and maybe a creature.

Have you ideas to play against Helm of Obdience Combo decks? I think preboard the mu is just horrible. We can just play Qasali to destroy there Enchantments. I just think that Armageddon makes the MU better. But 2 cards in 60 are not so much. Have you other Ideas? Maybe Krosan Grip, because its counterproof, but in my sideboard the Oring is in the Krosan Grip slots, because Oring is good against more Decks, than krosan Grip.

I agree the idea with Rest in Peace. It shuts down RUG, Dredge, Tin Fins, Reanimator, some Storm, good in Mirror Match. I try it over the Surgicals and Purify the Grave.

.:saturno:.
04-21-2013, 04:22 PM
Yesterday I split in the finals with GW maverick.
i played against, canadian, miracle, blade and agent bug. the deck works very well and i dont need any colour splash.

Creature [27]
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Instant [4]
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery [4]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Artifact [3]
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Land [22]
1 maze of ith
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
1 Karakas
2 Forest
2 Plains
60 cards

mishima_kazuya
04-21-2013, 11:03 PM
Split top four of the Philadelphia Legacy Series, Season 3 Champsionship. 44+ players with 6 rounds swiss.
I basically just splashed black for Deathrite Shaman and some extra weapons against combo.

23 Land

2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswepth Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor

26 Creatures

2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger

11 Other Spells
4 Swords of Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


Sideboard
2 Thoughtseize
2 Lingering Souls
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Life from the Loam
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Batterskull
1 Path to Exile
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Oblivion Ring

Round 1: Show and Tell (not sure which)
Lose in 2 games
match count: 0-1
Round 2: Team Italia (with Deathrite)
He got game loss for deck registration error and I won game 2.
matches: 1-1
Round 3: Esper Stoneblade
Win in 2 games
matches: 2-1
Round 4: Punishing Fire Jund
Win in 3 games
matches: 3-1
Round 5: Thalia Zoo
Win in 3 games
Matches: 4-1
Round 6: ANT
Win in 2 games.
Matches: 5-1

Top 8: UR Delver
Win in 3 games
Top 4: Split

MVPs:
Thalia
Knight of the Reliquary
Gaddock Teeg

LVPS:
Thoughtseize
Mirran Crusader

Notes:
The Scrubland was in because I couldn't get a 3rd Savannah before the tournament started, but they helped to make casting Thoughtseize easier.
Mirran Crusders were not impressive when Jund has access to both Bolts and Punishing Fire, so I think swapping out Crusaders for Stoneforges is better.
Thoughtseizes were not quite good enough against Show and Tell. It might actually be better to cut the Seizes for a 2nd Oblivion Ring and a CAvern of Souls in the sideboard. That would make the mana better by cutting the Scrubland since you don't need black on turn 1 anymore.

Arsenal
04-22-2013, 12:27 PM
If you're running Deathrite Maverick, wouldn't you want 1-4 Abrupt Decay somewhere in your 75?

ironclad8690
04-22-2013, 02:45 PM
What are people's opinions of a slight blue splash for geist of st traft? seems like a good clock in combo situations as well as a good creature in general for fair matchups, especially with MoR backup.

M@verick
04-22-2013, 04:22 PM
Hey guys,
I won the LCL (liga catalana de legacy) last saturday. We were 110 players.

My current list (a bit updated to metagame):

4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [A] Savannah
1 [U] Forest (3)
1 [7E] Plains (3)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [B] Birds of Paradise
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
2 [JU] Sylvan Safekeeper
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [8E] Choke
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace


Pairings and results:

R1: punishing jund 2-0
R2: esper blade 2-1
R3: goblins 2-0
R4: death and taxes 2-0
R5: sneak show 2-0
R6: merfolks ID
R7: red blade ID
Top8: merfolks 2-0
Top4: goblins 2-1
Final: RUG 2-0

The deck was really strong, just losing 2 games in the whole day.

mishima_kazuya
04-22-2013, 04:50 PM
If you're running Deathrite Maverick, wouldn't you want 1-4 Abrupt Decay somewhere in your 75?

I would try it out next time.
But, in theory, you would rather have your artifact/enchantment removal double up as a threat(Qasali Pridemage). It does have benefits over Oblivion Ring thought, like knocking out Counterbalance without problems or being able to destroy most creatures for only 2 mana.


What are people's opinions of a slight blue splash for geist of st traft? seems like a good clock in combo situations as well as a good creature in general for fair matchups, especially with MoR backup.

I'd splash blue for Spell Pierce and consider GoST a side benefit. :wink:

ironclad8690
04-22-2013, 04:57 PM
Hey guys,
I won the LCL (liga catalana de legacy) last saturday. We were 110 players.

My current list (a bit updated to metagame):

4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [A] Savannah
1 [U] Forest (3)
1 [7E] Plains (3)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [B] Birds of Paradise
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
2 [JU] Sylvan Safekeeper
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [8E] Choke
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace


Pairings and results:

R1: punishing jund 2-0
R2: esper blade 2-1
R3: goblins 2-0
R4: death and taxes 2-0
R5: sneak show 2-0
R6: merfolks ID
R7: red blade ID
Top8: merfolks 2-0
Top4: goblins 2-1
Final: RUG 2-0

The deck was really strong, just losing 2 games in the whole day.

I've really wanted to see someone post a "Green and Taxes" list in here. Congrats on the victory! What were the best and worst cards in your maindeck/sideboard in your experience?

M@verick
04-22-2013, 05:32 PM
I have tested the deck for long, so I think the 75 are the correct ones. I didnt use "mindbrak traps" during the tournament because the pairings, but i think they are necesary in order to beat unfair decks like all spells, storm, belcher, tim fins...
I specially liked my last addition to the deck, sylvan safekeeper, because it combines perfectly with aether vial, kotr, wayfarer...

TheInfamousBearAssassin
04-22-2013, 06:27 PM
Yeah, Sylvan Safekeeper seems reasonable. You can tutor for it and it has strong interactions with Wayfarer and Knight.

Why Birds over Hierarch though? Also what do you use Cradle for?

M@verick
04-22-2013, 06:39 PM
Cradle is the best land of the deck. It assures you equiping and attacking surprisingly in the same turn. Birds fits better with swords-equipment and becomes one of the main beaters in the deck.

Roland_Deschain
04-22-2013, 10:45 PM
Cradle is the best land of the deck. It assures you equiping and attacking surprisingly in the same turn. Birds fits better with swords-equipment and becomes one of the main beaters in the deck.
I test the maverick with aether vial, but sometimes i am not agresive enought, you does'nt feel it? I run a Batterskull in place of fire and ice because of this, the only cards in your list that can hurt is the knight and the birds/scryb with equipments, or i just talk shit? And the Sylvan Library dont miss it?
And why you dont use Bojuka Bog on side? With the Wayfares seems to be a good call.

M@verick
04-24-2013, 07:56 AM
I have no problem on killing my opponent. We have 7 win conditions (3 knights and 4 stoneforge). Fire-ice is betther than battserkull for long, and it combines perfectly with gaea´s cradle, like the other equpments. I miss sylvan library, but I guess that revoker or safekeeper do it better in the current metagame, and also fit better with vial and thalia.
Wayfarer- bojuka is only a good mix against dredge, and this is a pairing when I always side out wayfarers. To win decks like all spells, reanimator, ant... we need a kotr to do the bojuka useful.

Manipulato
04-24-2013, 12:20 PM
Hey guys,
I won the LCL (liga catalana de legacy) last saturday. We were 110 players.

My current list (a bit updated to metagame):

4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [A] Savannah
1 [U] Forest (3)
1 [7E] Plains (3)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [B] Birds of Paradise
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
2 [JU] Sylvan Safekeeper
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [8E] Choke
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace


Pairings and results:

R1: punishing jund 2-0
R2: esper blade 2-1
R3: goblins 2-0
R4: death and taxes 2-0
R5: sneak show 2-0
R6: merfolks ID
R7: red blade ID
Top8: merfolks 2-0
Top4: goblins 2-1
Final: RUG 2-0

The deck was really strong, just losing 2 games in the whole day.

Hi, gratz for your winning! Do you have video´s to watch? I saw a lot of LCL Video´s in the past...
What was your reason to play weathered Wayfarer combined with aether vial at the moment? I would miss the Pridemages a lot!

M@verick
04-24-2013, 02:02 PM
Sorry, there are no videos avalaible. With respect to vials and wayfarers, I have always played that version, except the two moths after GSZ got printed.

Fatal
04-24-2013, 02:16 PM
I tested this version and have question:

How you deal with Umezawa's Jitte ?

How you deal with Punishing Fire ?

Wayfarer are great vs long grindy game when they are taking advantage in future or seeking silver bullets like bog/karakas.

I'm interested in you Punishing Jund MU since you faced one in tourney, can you remember how game goes ?

Lacking more removal then 4 StP is sometimes sad vs opposite Mother of Runes/Dark Confidant.

Drawing Vial in late is devastating :| specially vs heavy removal decks like Jund.

M@verick
04-24-2013, 02:37 PM
Dealing with jitte is usually not a problem. We have our own one, plus 4 stoneforge. In adittion, we have phyrexian revoker and maze of ith (which is only included because is close to be autowin against esper-blade). I never search jitte as first option, unless my purpose would be dealing with another jitte.

About punishing jund MU, i consisder it hard. From all decks I faced in the tourney, the hardest. But surprisingly I won easily. One game I could face an active confidant for 4 or 5 turns. Mother, scryb and stp stopped his goyfs, and wayfarer supplied me card advantatge enough to compensate his confidant. Later I drew a stoneforge, and with cradle, I equiped and attacked same turn for the win. Second game the mix safekeper-wayfarer, with a thalia, beated him easily. I had vial or BOP (cant remmeber) and I used multiple watelands, until I played a big Kotr who won. The mix Safekeepre- Kotr is perfect against Jund. In fact, I added safekkeper to improve Jund MU.

Otherwise, I usually side out thalias and gaddocks (for O. rings) against decks like merfolks, gobos, mirror, death and taxes... I also include 2 or 3 rings against Jund, in addition to 2xRIP, which are very good in the MU.

diakocjay
04-24-2013, 03:52 PM
I am now playing the Punishing fire build, I want to know your opinions on what would be the best 4 CC to use. I am torn between Sigarda, Elspeth Knight-Errant, Thrun or Bloodbraid elf. If you were to choose only 1 or 2 to play, what would it be and why (Pros and cons please)?

I thank everyone in advance.

door
04-24-2013, 04:28 PM
Sorry, there are no videos avalaible. With respect to vials and wayfarers, I have always played that version, except the two moths after GSZ got printed.

It's nice to see you in top again, congrats! And I'm happy that you left the black splash and returned to the classic version, however with Thalias in the main =)
But nevertheless, beating Jund, especially with punishing fires, is a hard work for this deck. The last times I played it, I even put 2 Oblivion rings to the maindeck, considering that show'n tell decks are also so popular. So a full set of o-rings in sb look reasonable. Rest in peace, however, looks strange to me. Do you side surgical extractions and rips against punishing jund or rip only?

Philipp2293
04-24-2013, 04:43 PM
I am now playing the Punishing fire build, I want to know your opinions on what would be the best 4 CC to use. I am torn between Sigarda, Elspeth Knight-Errant, Thrun or Bloodbraid elf. If you were to choose only 1 or 2 to play, what would it be and why (Pros and cons please)?

I thank everyone in advance.

I think Bloodbraid is out of competion, because of the antisynergy with GSZ. I think Sigarda and Thrun are both fine bullets, both in the current Meta I value Sigarda higher, as there are several decks which are completely dead to it, while they still are able to handle Thrun (e.g. Jund and various BUG builds). I also really like Elspeth for the same MUs, but I run straight GW and I'm not sure how easily castable Elspeth is with the Fires manabase.

Arsenal
04-24-2013, 04:44 PM
I'm running GW Maverick and use Elspeth + Sigarda as my 4-5cc bombs. I used to run Thrun, but Sigarda is just better and I run Gaea's Cradle, so the difference between 4 and 5 cc isn't that important at that stage of the game.

Sunyveil
04-24-2013, 11:24 PM
Hi guys, first post on this forum. Never been here before, but I've heard this is the place for info on Legacy.

I got second at the SCG Legacy Open last weekend in Seattle. Here is a link to my list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55299

I just sent a draft of an article to the editor, hopefully they will put that up in the near future.

xifre
04-25-2013, 12:08 AM
@ M@verick, are there instances where you wish you have extra removals other than 4 Stp and the counters from jitte?

At times, I'm forced to include O-rings as added removals but at the expense of decreasing my creatures.

Also, what's the minimum number of creatures that you play in a vial build?

IL_casual
04-25-2013, 02:14 AM
Hi guys, first post on this forum. Never been here before, but I've heard this is the place for info on Legacy.

I got second at the SCG Legacy Open last weekend in Seattle. Here is a link to my list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55299

I just sent a draft of an article to the editor, hopefully they will put that up in the near future.

Congratulations on the win! You've inspired me to dust off my old maverick deck and try slugging it out again. A few questions tho...

1. Have you ever thought of maindecking the discards? It seems like a proactive move, keeping in line with mavericks intent of proactive disruption.
2. How good is deathrite shaman vs noble heirarch? Were you able to use all 3 abilities consistently?
3. Does the black splash do anything to our miracle matchup? How about the jund matchupsm
4. Stoneforge mystic was removed in almost all gw builds. Why the change to the classic build?

Im really glad that maverick is making a resurgence in the bigger tournaments! Again, congratulations!

Sunyveil
04-25-2013, 02:53 AM
Congratulations on the win! You've inspired me to dust off my old maverick deck and try slugging it out again. A few questions tho...

1. Have you ever thought of maindecking the discards? It seems like a proactive move, keeping in line with mavericks intent of proactive disruption.
2. How good is deathrite shaman vs noble heirarch? Were you able to use all 3 abilities consistently?
3. Does the black splash do anything to our miracle matchup? How about the jund matchupsm
4. Stoneforge mystic was removed in almost all gw builds. Why the change to the classic build?

Im really glad that maverick is making a resurgence in the bigger tournaments! Again, congratulations!
1) I did maindeck 4 discard spells... I think it helps significantly against combo at the expense of some of the grindier matchups, but I think that's well worth it.
2) Deathrite Shaman is pretty OP. All three abilities are relevant in different situations, and a lot of decks will have a problem trying to win through an active Deathrite Shaman.
3) Miracles is a pretty good matchup to begin with, I suppose the black splash also gives us access to Abrupt Decay. Not sure if that's better or worse. I'd say it hurts our Jund (and other aggro) matchup slightly, but not by a ton. Did not play against Jund over the weekend.
4) Yeah, I remember SFM being really bad in the old builds, but it's really good here for some reason. I think it's because my version has slightly fewer creatures, so sometimes you need to make your own creature via Batterskull. Also, she's pretty good as a defensive creature, which is what we end up needing in a lot of fair matchups.

defector
04-25-2013, 12:00 PM
@sunnyveil: Congrats on a great finish!! You have also restored my faith in mav:) i love the list, it looks great. One question can the bop be cut and just run on 4 drs for manadorks? I agree sfm is good again, its been up and down as meta slots but it seems well positioned as of now. Anyway great finish and i will be tinkering with your list:)
Cheers
Defector

sdematt
04-25-2013, 01:13 PM
With this deck in particular, the number of games you win by having acceleration turn 1 versus not is huge. I always ran the 5 acceleration in traditional Maverick. It helps a ton.

-Matt

Arsenal
04-25-2013, 01:24 PM
In the past, I couldn't bring myself in running that many mana dorks, because they were terrible lategame. Deathrite Shaman has changed that as it's a perfectably acceptable topdeck lategame and still an awesome early game mana dork.

lyracian
04-25-2013, 03:25 PM
Hi guys, first post on this forum. Never been here before, but I've heard this is the place for info on Legacy.

I got second at the SCG Legacy Open last weekend in Seattle. Here is a link to my list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55299

I just sent a draft of an article to the editor, hopefully they will put that up in the near future.
Congratulations on the finish. When you say "draft to the editor" do you mean SCG editor?

How did you find the two BoP's played compared to Noble Hierarch? Clearly they give access to Black which is a bonus but did it or there flying make any difference at the event?

Sunyveil
04-25-2013, 03:59 PM
Yeah, I sent Cedric the article, but I haven't heard back yet. I'm worried he has a grudge on me because of the last time I played in Seattle, but perhaps that's just me being paranoid.

Birds' ability to produce black mana is very often relevant. Also, it served as a chump blocker (or potential chump blocker, I don't remember that well) for Vendilion Clique in the finals that ended up being pretty critical. I would definitely run it over Hierarch if you are splashing black.

Also I started out with 4 DRS but found that I couldn't actually fuel that many in my deck. I switched to 3 DRS 1 BoP, then decided that I wanted one more mana dork.

Arsenal
04-25-2013, 04:11 PM
Yeah, I sent Cedric the article, but I haven't heard back yet. I'm worried he has a grudge on me because of the last time I played in Seattle, but perhaps that's just me being paranoid.

Birds' ability to produce black mana is very often relevant. Also, it served as a chump blocker (or potential chump blocker, I don't remember that well) for Vendilion Clique in the finals that ended up being pretty critical. I would definitely run it over Hierarch if you are splashing black.

Also I started out with 4 DRS but found that I couldn't actually fuel that many in my deck. I switched to 3 DRS 1 BoP, then decided that I wanted one more mana dork.

Did you ever consider going 4 Swords / 4 Abrupt Decay over the 4 Swords / 4 Thoughtseize config that you ended up running? The allure of 4 Abrupt Decay / 4 Swords is strong...

Lt. Quattro
04-25-2013, 06:17 PM
Looking at Sunyveil's list and the one that made top 8 at the gp, is the is it fair to say that the g/w versions of the deck are dead and buried like how esper stoneblade killed the u/w versions and made itself the new king of kings?

.Ix
04-26-2013, 12:52 AM
Good job, Sunyveil! Congrats on the finish!

The first time I suggested it in this thread I was practically made fun of for running black. "It's not Maverick" "Thalia is the best", etc etc. Just goes to show how hard it is to get people to change decks they're familiar with.

Sunyveil
04-26-2013, 02:42 AM
I don't think G/W/b is the only viable choice for Maverick, it's just best positioned for the Pacific Northwest. I imagine that a Naya or 4-color version of Punishing Maverick would be heavily favored against me, and a straight GW version slightly favored. I didn't think I would run into many mirrors over the weekend (I didn't), and if I did, I had enough faith in my technical skill to be able to swing the matchup.

Also, I tried 4 StP + 2 Abrupt Decay, and it simply felt like more removal than the deck needed. KotR and Mother of Runes both help neutralize opposing creatures, so more than 4 true removal spells doesn't seem essential.

IL_casual
04-26-2013, 11:33 AM
Im trying on sunnyveils list without the stoneforge package and trying on the old 2 jitte stance. Ill let you guys know how this holds up.
Since were already splashing black here, what do you guys think of lilliana otv here? A singleton lotv could easily fill in as removal #5. Thoughts?")

Arsenal
04-26-2013, 11:35 AM
Im trying on sunnyveils list without the stoneforge package and trying on the old 2 jitte stance. Ill let you guys know how this holds up.
Since were already splashing black here, what do you guys think of lilliana otv here? A singleton lotv could easily fill in as removal #5. Thoughts?")

Her 1BB casting cost would seem absolutely brutal to consistently attain. I'd rather have Path to Exile, Abrupt Decay as removal #5 before Liliana of the Veil.

litenkatt
04-28-2013, 01:30 AM
Sunnyveil

I find your sideboard quite interesting w/ 3 E-tutor. How did that work out for you? Anything you'd like to change in the SB?

Lord_Mcdonalds
04-28-2013, 11:44 PM
Im trying on sunnyveils list without the stoneforge package and trying on the old 2 jitte stance. Ill let you guys know how this holds up.
Since were already splashing black here, what do you guys think of lilliana otv here? A singleton lotv could easily fill in as removal #5. Thoughts?")

Short of pumping Knight, we don't have many ways of getting value off of the +1 (like Junk with lingering souls or Pox with it's pox~y things), nor are we jund and just apply tons of upfront pressure and disruption, abrupt decay just sounds better.

kai_nsane
04-29-2013, 07:52 AM
I dont think, that GWb Maverick is so better than just GW Maverick, like Esperblade than UW Blade.

I think that the splash is just a Metacall.

If you dont know the meta, and want a consistend Deck, then use GW Mave. You have so many Hatebears (Teeg, Thalia, Ethersworn, Revoker etc.) that you able to beat every Deck.

If the Meta have more Midrange Decks, like Junk, Jund, Canadian etc. then splash red for Punishing fire and other red spells (ReB, maybe the RW Ajani).
If the Meta have more Storm/Control Decks splash Black for Discard and Counterproof removal.

What do you think about Garruk, Primal Hunter? I think i play him over Sigarda, because he is good against Jund and Pox too, but have nuts against UW controll.

Arsenal
04-29-2013, 12:47 PM
I'm unclear as to how Garruk Primal Hunter is better against Jund and Pox than Sigarda is. Assuming you were able to amass 5 mana versus Pox (tall task), Sigarda reduces the value of their Smallpox and Liliana of the Veil substantially while representing a very quick clock they cannot remove or chump-block. In Maverick, I'd opt for Thrun, Garruk Relentless, Elspeth Knight-Errant, Linvala, Sigarda as my maindeck 4-5cc bombs before considering anything else, but that's just me.

Vandalize
04-29-2013, 04:42 PM
I've been playing arround with Punishing Maverick, plus Stoneforge Mystics, and deck seems to be running smoothly. I haven't been manascrewed in a while.

List:
Lands [23]
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy

Creatures [21]
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells [16]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library
1 Ajani Vegeant
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Sideboard [15]
3 Pyroblast
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Boiling Seas
2 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Maze of Ith

Boiling Seas is TEH SHIT against control. Pretty much like Choke, but better. Just wait for them to tap out, and win the game. Punishing Fire seems pretty good against everything in the field, except combo, which this deck is almost a dog, anyways. Engineered Explosives is also nice against random decks, such as Enchantress and Affinity.

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

Arsenal
04-29-2013, 04:46 PM
Isn't Boil strictly better than Boiling Seas? Is there a reason you'd not want the flexibility of Instant speed?

Richard Cheese
04-29-2013, 04:55 PM
I've been playing arround with Punishing Maverick, plus Stoneforge Mystics, and deck seems to be running smoothly. I haven't been manascrewed in a while.

Boiling Seas is TEH SHIT against control. Pretty much like Choke, but better. Just wait for them to tap out, and win the game. Punishing Fire seems pretty good against everything in the field, except combo, which this deck is almost a dog, anyways. Engineered Explosives is also nice against random decks, such as Enchantress and Affinity.

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

Why would you run that over Boil?

TiltingKitty
04-29-2013, 04:55 PM
What do you think about Garruk, Primal Hunter? I think i play him over Sigarda, because he is good against Jund and Pox too, but have nuts against UW controll.

Why not both? Drawing 5 cards for 5 mana seems like a pretty sweet deal to me.

Vandalize
04-29-2013, 04:58 PM
Why would you run that over Boil?

Oh, I didn't know there was an Instant Speed one. Yeah, it's definetely better.

Koby
04-29-2013, 05:01 PM
Oh, I didn't know there was an Instant Speed one. Yeah, it's definetely better.

*facepalm*

Just use Tsunami, and you'll never worry about having to find Red mana.

Sunyveil
04-30-2013, 12:44 AM
Article about last week's SCG Open is up on StarCityGames.com. I hope you guys like it!

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26081_Second-In-Seattle-With-Green-Suns-Zenith.html

kai_nsane
04-30-2013, 04:36 AM
Sunyveil

Article about last week's SCG Open is up on StarCityGames.com. I hope you guys like it!

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ns-Zenith.html



Nice report. I'm happy to see, that you take a good day with Maverick.


In seven rounds, I did not lose a single game.

Have you this result with your test deck?

Some Questions about your Sideboard. Are you happy with the tutor engine? I don't like it, because you just have only one answer. For example: You have only one O-Ring, but in some mu's you need a second or third O-Ring and no Tutor. I hope you understand, what i mean. My english is not the best.
Why do you play Zuran Orb? Against wich mu its relevant?

Thanks.

Sunyveil
04-30-2013, 12:14 PM
Zuran Orb is for Burn or U/R Delver. It's kind of janky but it makes those matchups very hard to lose.

I really like the Enlightened Tutor package, I haven't had instances where I really wished to have multiple copies of my hate cards. One is usually enough.

Koby
04-30-2013, 12:18 PM
Zuran Orb is for Burn or U/R Delver. It's kind of janky but it makes those matchups very hard to lose.

I really like the Enlightened Tutor package, I haven't had instances where I really wished to have multiple copies of my hate cards. One is usually enough.

That had been my experience with the package too, and it works very well against Combo decks (including Burn).
My only reservation about the plan is that it lacks a good punch against fair strategies like Stoneblade, RUG/BUG Tempo, and DRS decks. While these matches are fairly even, having some strong inclusions helps to make sure we win G2/3.

Jblaze4lif
04-30-2013, 01:40 PM
Congrats on the 2nd place finish. The list looks awesome. I think more discard in the sideboard might help vs the Combo decks. 3 cabal therapy out of the board might help a lot with all the Sneak, Show, TES decks gaining popularity.

Arsenal
04-30-2013, 01:43 PM
Congrats on the 2nd place finish. The list looks awesome. I think more discard in the sideboard might help vs the Combo decks. 3 cabal therapy out of the board might help a lot with all the Sneak, Show, TES decks gaining popularity.

Against Combo and to a lesser extent, Control, wouldn't Thalia work here too? Turn 1 discard, Turn 2 Thalia seems very good versus combo.

Koby
04-30-2013, 01:48 PM
Against Combo and to a lesser extent, Control, wouldn't Thalia work here too? Turn 1 discard, Turn 2 Thalia seems very good versus combo.

I agree. Thalia is really good against Combo, obviously. Part of the success I've had in the past with the deck was primarily due to Thalia slowing combo down enough to deploy stronger threats like KotR for beatdown or Gaddock Teeg and Canonist for further lock-pieces.

Arsenal
04-30-2013, 02:03 PM
Having 4 Thoughtseize, 1-2 Gaddock Teeg, 3-4 Thalia, 1-2 Canonist, and 4 Mother of Runes (to protect your hatebears from their inevitable Pyroclasm/Abrupt Decay) seems like the best Maverick can hope to do against combo postboard, right? Assuming you lost game 1, turn 1 Thoughtseize/Mother of Runes -> turn 2 Hatebear seems like the strongest opening plays we have versus them.

jarvisyu
04-30-2013, 02:17 PM
That had been my experience with the package too, and it works very well against Combo decks (including Burn).
My only reservation about the plan is that it lacks a good punch against fair strategies like Stoneblade, RUG/BUG Tempo, and DRS decks. While these matches are fairly even, having some strong inclusions helps to make sure we win G2/3.

in my own experience, RIP is really good vs RUG / BUG variants. It's not good vs Stoneforge sure, and it's antisynergistic with our KoTRs.

I think it is a mostly better Tormod's Crypt, though.

jarvisyu
04-30-2013, 02:21 PM
Choke is worth considering versus Stoneforge? If you keep them off hitting with a SoFaF, then Choke locks down nearly all of their lands.

Arsenal
04-30-2013, 02:24 PM
In Sunyveil's list, I'd imagine he boards in Elspeth and Abrupt Decay versus Esperblade and the Delver-tempo decks, right? I mean, Elspeth is such a house in those super grindy games and she's particularly strong against Jace decks. Abrupt Decay seems to shine against Delver-tempo decks due to them being traditionally threat light (12-14 creatures) and one timely Abrupt Decay can set them behind a fair amount with no pressure on board.

Koby
04-30-2013, 03:21 PM
In Sunyveil's list, I'd imagine he boards in Elspeth and Abrupt Decay versus Esperblade and the Delver-tempo decks, right? I mean, Elspeth is such a house in those super grindy games and she's particularly strong against Jace decks. Abrupt Decay seems to shine against Delver-tempo decks due to them being traditionally threat light (12-14 creatures) and one timely Abrupt Decay can set them behind a fair amount with no pressure on board.

My experience against Tempo had pointed towards Elspeth being useless. Four mana spells are hard to resolve against Daze, Spell Pierce, and Wasteland/Stifle. Elspeth is much better against Miracles than it is Delvers. Abrupt Decay and StP are both highly valuable as removing the Tempo deck's threat (or neutralizing it) means you get to play the long game, which has always favored Maverick.

Arsenal
04-30-2013, 03:45 PM
Interesting. I've found that many of my games versus Delver tempo decks either end very quickly (turn 1 Delver on the play, backed up by loads of counter + burn/removal) or they go long due to Maverick's inherent ability to create a clogged board state (active Mother of Runes is just nutty versus tempo decks running 4-6 removal spells). If planning for the long game (which we should be against Delver tempo decks since we become the "control" deck), you haven't found yourself wanting a bomb like Elspeth? Or do you have other bombs, like Thrun/Sigarda/Garruk Relentless/etc? I maindeck one Elspeth and often will keep her in, while sideboarding in more removal + graveyard hate like Rest in Peace (shuts off their Mongoose, Goyf, DRS, Tombstalker, Darkblast, Life from the Loam, Ancient Grudge). What are your boarding plans versus Delver tempo decks (RUG and BUG specifically)?

Koby
04-30-2013, 04:05 PM
Sure, RIP is great against Tempo, but I think the best way to reach the late game is removing Delver and resolving Scavenging Ooze. With S.Ooze, you effectively replicate the same effect that RIP provides without hurting yourself. In addition, it grows to become a large threat from all the work your opponent does to try to kill your creatures.

Against RUG Delver:
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-X Elspeth
-X Thrun/Sigarda
+ Removal
+ Bojuka Bog (spot nuke and mana source)

Arsenal
04-30-2013, 04:18 PM
Sure, RIP is great against Tempo, but I think the best way to reach the late game is removing Delver and resolving Scavenging Ooze. With S.Ooze, you effectively replicate the same effect that RIP provides without hurting yourself. In addition, it grows to become a large threat from all the work your opponent does to try to kill your creatures.

Against RUG Delver:
-2 Qasali Pridemage
-X Elspeth
-X Thrun/Sigarda
+ Removal
+ Bojuka Bog (spot nuke and mana source)

This is my current 75, let me know if you think this boarding plan is "right" versus Delver tempo decks:

Maindeck - 60

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

2 Umezawa’s Jitte

2 Sylvan Library

4 Green Sun’s Zenith

1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard - 15

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dueling Grounds
2 Choke
3 Rest in Peace

I usually board -2 Pridemage, -1 Gaddock Teeg (only really stop Force of Will versus them, and if they boarded out Force of Will, then Teeg is truly just a Grizzly Bear), -1 Sigarda, -1 Ranger, and bring in +1 Enlightened Tutor, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Oblivion Ring, +1 Life from the Loam. I suppose I could go -1 Elspeth, but then I'd want to bring in +1 Linvala (doesn't die to Bolt, doesn't die to Abrupt Decay, blocks Delver, blocks Mongoose, blocks Clique if they boarded it in, turns off their Ooze if they boarded it in).

My sideboard is still a work in progress (Dueling Grounds is an experiment), but I feel pretty good about the maindeck. I've found Thalia is a BEATING versus Delver tempo decks, combo, Esperblade, and other random stuff, so I really don't ever plan on running less than 4 between my 75.

Koby
04-30-2013, 04:51 PM
With your list, I would board as such:
-1 Sigarda (too expensive, just a 5/5 flyer vs Tempo)
-1 Elspeth (too expensive)
-2 Qasali Pridemage

+1 Bojuka Bog (extra mana source, and utility)
+1 Life from the Loam (Wasteland locking + recovering)
+1 Linvala (flyer vs Delver, 4 toughness)
+1 Thrun/Choke (alternately, only -1 Pridemage)

This matchup doesn't need much to begin with, just streamline the deck for efficient threats + answers, and tight play.

TiltingKitty
04-30-2013, 05:41 PM
This matchup doesn't need much to begin with, just streamline the deck for efficient threats + answers, and tight play.

Assuming 2 Teeg in the 75, would you bring in both against RUG? Submerge is still a thing last I checked.

The main issue I have against RUG is that I think they have more potential for "oops, I win" opening hands than we do.

Sunyveil
04-30-2013, 05:41 PM
The card you're most worried about against RUG/BUG is Delver, and 4x STP 2x Abrupt Decay with Scryb Ranger and Maze of Ith is usually enough. I don't like Elspeth in that matchup because she just costs too much... your GSZ creatures are probably good enough to win those games.

I definitely wouldn't cut Crypt, it is the best to buy you time against graveyard decks. Once you get a Scavenging Ooze online you win, so you just need to delay until that point.

Koby
04-30-2013, 06:11 PM
Assuming 2 Teeg in the 75, would you bring in both against RUG? Submerge is still a thing last I checked.

The main issue I have against RUG is that I think they have more potential for "oops, I win" opening hands than we do.

I wouldn't consider the 2nd Teeg due to diminishing returns. I would keep one maindeck to shut off FoW and Submerge (more likely the latter since their counterspells are bad in this matchup).

Fatal
05-01-2013, 05:27 AM
I would leave 1 Qasali Pridemage in Tempo RUG MU - specially vs burn heavy. I faced few times that RUG put Sulful Vortex just to have chance burn you out after some early combat dmg beating.

IL_casual
05-01-2013, 11:07 AM
just came from a small tournament and came out 1st. Thanks again sunnyveil for inspiring us maverick players to slug it out again against islands!

Deck list
Artifact 2
2 umezawa jitte

Spells 16
2 sylvan library
4 inquisition to kozilek
2 abrupt decay
4 swords to plowshares
4 green sun zenith

Creatures 19
1 birds of paradise
4 deathrite shaman
4 mother of runes
4 knights of the reliquary
2 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 scryb ranger
2 qasali pridemage


Lands 23
1 horizon canopy
1 maze of ith
2 bayou
1 scrubland
3 savannah
4 verdant catacomb
4 windswept heath
1 forest
1 plains
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor
3 wastelands

Sideboard
1 gaddock teeg
2 enlightened tutor
1 bojuka bog
1 aethersworn canonist
1 oblivion ring
1 choke
2 engineered plague
1 circle of protection red
1 cabal therapy
1 engineered explosives
1 linvala
2 surgical extraction

×notes:
deathrite shaman is incredible.
All its abilities were used throughout the game. From pinging a control player every turn, to outracing a goblin deck by constantly gaining 2 life every turn.
Scryb ranger is one of the best cards in the deck. Combat tricks with mother of runes(double protection) and knight of the reliquary(instant +2/+2) will almost always will always turn the tide for you.
Discards and abrupt decays may prove to be our answer to miracles as countebalance and counterspells are invalidated by those cards.
Black provides access to engineered plague, which i think is the best answer to another one of mavericks bad matchups, aggro tribal decks.
An active sylvan library and deathrite shaman is card advantage heaven.

diakocjay
05-01-2013, 12:26 PM
have you faced a Punishing Maverick in any of your games? If so, how was the matchup?


just came from a small tournament and came out 1st. Thanks again sunnyveil for inspiring us maverick players to slug it out again against islands!

Deck list
Artifact 2
2 umezawa jitte

Spells 16
2 sylvan library
4 inquisition to kozilek
2 abrupt decay
4 swords to plowshares
4 green sun zenith

Creatures 18
4 deathrite shaman
4 mother of runes
4 knights of the reliquary
2 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 scryb ranger
2 qasali pridemage


Lands 24
1 horizon canopy
1 maze of ith
2 bayou
1 scrubland
4 savannah
4 verdant catacomb
4 windswept heath
1 forest
1 plains
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor
3 wastelands

Sideboard
1 gaddock teeg
2 enlightened tutor
1 bojuka bog
1 aethersworn canonist
1 oblivion ring
1 choke
2 engineered plague
1 circle of protection red
1 cabal therapy
1 engineered explosives
1 linvala
2 surgical extraction

×notes:
deathrite shaman is incredible.
All its abilities were used throughout the game. From pinging a control player every turn, to outracing a goblin deck by constantly gaining 2 life every turn.
Scryb ranger is one of the best cards in the deck. Combat tricks with mother of runes(double protection) and knight of the reliquary(instant +2/+2) will almost always will always turn the tide for you.
Discards and abrupt decays may prove to be our answer to miracles as countebalance and counterspells are invalidated by those cards.
Black provides access to engineered plague, which i think is the best answer to another one of mavericks bad matchups, aggro tribal decks.
An active sylvan library and deathrite shaman is card advantage heaven.

Sunyveil
05-01-2013, 02:09 PM
I would leave 1 Qasali Pridemage in Tempo RUG MU - specially vs burn heavy. I faced few times that RUG put Sulful Vortex just to have chance burn you out after some early combat dmg beating.

This is a very good point, I kept forgetting to bring it up

@IL - 2 abrupt decay main ever felt like too much for you?

ironclad8690
05-01-2013, 04:01 PM
have you faced a Punishing Maverick in any of your games? If so, how was the matchup?

I'd imagine punishing would be pretty good vs this deck. Punishing Mav was pretty good against junk before deathrite shaman came around, and I imagine it is just as strong vs it if not better. Of course, I don't know if dark maverick gives enough justification to switch back to punishing fire version. I live in socal and I have to play the 4 thalia version otherwise combo would cream me every time.

IL_casual
05-01-2013, 05:05 PM
I'd imagine punishing would be pretty good vs this deck. Punishing Mav was pretty good against junk before deathrite shaman came around, and I imagine it is just as strong vs it if not better. Of course, I don't know if dark maverick gives enough justification to switch back to punishing fire version. I live in socal and I have to play the 4 thalia version otherwise combo would cream me every time.

Nope, i didnt face any punishing maverick during the tourne and i would have to agree that a recurring shock could potentially be troublesome. But an active mom and deathrite could easily defeat decks relying too much on punishing fire.
Also, as my sideboards are also positioned to handle dredge, i have the option of boarding in grave hates game 2.

IL_casual
05-01-2013, 05:14 PM
This is a very good point, I kept forgetting to bring it up

@IL - 2 abrupt decay main ever felt like too much for you?

@Sunny: nope, abrupt decays proved to be one of my mvps throughout the tourney, acting as an additional removal but more often as qasali pridemage 3. It killed rest in peace/counterbalance/cliques protecting jaces/delvers. It think AD gives us the extra reach against complacent opponents hiding under a hand of counterspells.

Sansian
05-01-2013, 11:12 PM
@Il_Casual: Were the IoK's in there based upon availability issues or do you prefer them over Thoughtsieze because it doesn't cost life?

IL_casual
05-02-2013, 01:32 AM
@Il_Casual: Were the IoK's in there based upon availability issues or do you prefer them over Thoughtsieze because it doesn't cost life?

Lifebased actually. I also own a set of thoughtseizes but during playtests, the cards often stripped were 3cmcs or below. I opted for duress since we mostly strip spells but their were instances that an opponent is holding a snapcast or other tricky creature.
Also,since i only have deathrites ability and the jitte as life gain, id rather use those abilities to ping my opponent of kill their critters.

kai_nsane
05-02-2013, 05:24 AM
@Il_Casual: I like your GWb Maverick. I have test it a little bit and it plays very smooth. The Mu against Midrange Deck is quite good, but the Control and Storm Mu is a lot of better, than with straight GW.

Do you think there is space for 2 Mirran Crusader in your Deck? I think i cut a Land (Bayou) and play 61 cards, because the Crusader is huge!

catmint
05-02-2013, 05:30 AM
you surely want to take Jace, Elspeth, Ad Nauseam, Terminus, Verdict, Sneak Attack, Submerge, Griselbrand, FoW once in a while... Since you have the ability to stabalize and even gain back life I would play Thoughtseize 100%. In my various decks playing discard I often had a 2/2 split, due to life losse (these decks also often have snapcaster), but even with these decks I prefer thoughtseize now.

IL_casual
05-02-2013, 09:00 AM
@Il_Casual: I like your GWb Maverick. I have test it a little bit and it plays very smooth. The Mu against Midrange Deck is quite good, but the Control and Storm Mu is a lot of better, than with straight GW.

Do you think there is space for 2 Mirran Crusader in your Deck? I think i cut a Land (Bayou) and play 61 cards, because the Crusader is huge!

Hi! Cutting a land to add 2 3cmc cards could potentially ruin your curve at some points.unless you feel a jund/junk meta, i wont recommend it. But you would insist on adding mirrans, i would suggest -1 reliquary for it instead of a land.

× I added 1x birds of paradisd to the deck and -1 savannah. Like what was mentioned, 1 bird could provide acceleration during the 1st few turns and also provide the rare black mana.

IL_casual
05-02-2013, 09:03 AM
you surely want to take Jace, Elspeth, Ad Nauseam, Terminus, Verdict, Sneak Attack, Submerge, Griselbrand, FoW once in a while... Since you have the ability to stabalize and even gain back life I would play Thoughtseize 100%. In my various decks playing discard I often had a 2/2 split, due to life losse (these decks also often have snapcaster), but even with these decks I prefer thoughtseize now.

Thanks, ill try again tomorrow and test using thoughtseizes on a bigger tourney. Maybe because my meta here is more aggro than combo thats why iok was my choice turn 1 discard.

As for the cards you mentioned above...that's the main reason why gaddock teeg is in the mainboard in the first place. What i would rather pull from their hands are removals that might kill my utility creatures.")

ironclad8690
05-02-2013, 10:37 AM
Thanks, ill try again tomorrow and test using thoughtseizes on a bigger tourney. Maybe because my meta here is more aggro than combo thats why iok was my choice turn 1 discard.

As for the cards you mentioned above...that's the main reason why gaddock teeg is in the mainboard in the first place. What i would rather pull from their hands are removals that might kill my utility creatures.")

You have a good point. Anything that inquisition of kozilek doesn't get is blocked by teeg (at least non creature spells).

Arsenal
05-02-2013, 11:23 AM
For those that have gone to discard and cut Thalia, how much better is your combo matchup now? Also, how are your other non-creature centric matchups? Did you ever miss Thalia versus decks like BUG/RUG Delver, Esperblade, etc?

IL_casual
05-02-2013, 03:59 PM
For those that have gone to discard and cut Thalia, how much better is your combo matchup now? Also, how are your other non-creature centric matchups? Did you ever miss Thalia versus decks like BUG/RUG Delver, Esperblade, etc?

Tarmo and delver can be abrupt decayed without any chance of being countered, cutting rugs offensive threat significantly.
I think our postboard esperblade/bug matchups increased significantly . Too many times my offense sputtered as soon as engineered plague naming humans (noble/thalia/mom)drops on the board. Since were no longer packing thalia/nobles, we effectively shut off one of their main threats.

kai_nsane
05-02-2013, 04:27 PM
@ Sunyveil:

With your list, how do you play against Dredge? You just have 1 Tormods Crypt, 2 Scooze and the Deathrite Shamans + maybe Engineered Plague on Horror.

@ How do you play against Dredge?, When is the best moment to use a Scooze, a Tormods Crypt or search for a Bojuka Bog with a KotR?

Koby
05-02-2013, 04:46 PM
@ Sunyveil:

With your list, how do you play against Dredge? You just have 1 Tormods Crypt, 2 Scooze and the Deathrite Shamans + maybe Engineered Plague on Horror.

@ How do you play against Dredge?, When is the best moment to use a Scooze, a Tormods Crypt or search for a Bojuka Bog with a KotR?

The optimal time to blast a g/y nuke is in response to creatures entering the battlefield either from Bridge from Below (the Bridge checks to see if it's still in the g/y to make the tokens) or from Narcomoeba and Ichorid. Tormod's Crypt is ideal for this, as is an active KotR. Scavenging Ooze is the best long term plan against Dredge, and your priority should be to get him on the battlefield and use him as much as possible until you win. Watch out for Firestorm and Contagion.

Sunyveil
05-02-2013, 05:10 PM
@ Sunyveil:

With your list, how do you play against Dredge? You just have 1 Tormods Crypt, 2 Scooze and the Deathrite Shamans + maybe Engineered Plague on Horror.

@ How do you play against Dredge?, When is the best moment to use a Scooze, a Tormods Crypt or search for a Bojuka Bog with a KotR?

The only thing you need to do vs. Dredge is to survive long enough until you get a Scavenging Ooze online. Deathrite Shaman will often be enough to win as well. Do whatever it takes to get there.

kai_nsane
05-02-2013, 06:08 PM
Thank you for the Dredge tips!

I make a few testgames against UWMiracle, UW Helm of Obdience Combo and URSneak Attak.

The Discard is a lot of better than the Thalia in this Mu's.

Just GW Maverick has a horrible Mu against UW Controll imo, but with the Discard and Abrupt Decay it get a lot of better. Discard is good against Sneak Attack too, but there KotR -> Maze of Ith/Karakas, ORing, Revoker, Qasali are mvp's too in the mu.

The manabase is very stable, I notice no difference from GW in contrast to GWB.
Maybe i pay the 300€ for the Splash, because it has really just advantages :D

kingsey
05-03-2013, 11:34 PM
Seems the Black splash is gaining steam....

I got smoked vs jund last night with plain GW. I was thinking about going to punishing Fires over the black splash to deal with more creature based decks.

What would you say in an open meta is the better splash is and why?

IL_casual
05-04-2013, 01:29 AM
Seems the Black splash is gaining steam....

I got smoked vs jund last night with plain GW. I was thinking about going to punishing Fires over the black splash to deal with more creature based decks.

What would you say in an open meta is the better splash is and why?

In an open meta, I would go with the black splash. Punishing mav is incredibly weak to combo and just gets a tad better against it post sideboard(REB/Pyroblast). With black, discards can help against an open field , decays can combat control decks and deathrite shamans life gain ability can provide life gain against an aggro deck.

phazonmutant
05-04-2013, 02:56 AM
For once, not trolling:

What do you guys see as the difference been you and other Junk / Rock decks? In the past it's been easy to say "hatebears", but now a lot of the GW/b builds don't run any Thalia. Do you think having a more consistent GWb manabase is better than the option of not focusing on KotR and being more solidly 3 colors like Junk?


I'm a little bit surprised that the GWb decks with discard instead of Thalia are actually having success against combo. Combo decks are built to fight discard in their maindeck, but beating Thalia is much, much harder.

Manipulato
05-04-2013, 10:57 AM
Hey Guys,
yesterday i looked at the price of Voice of Resurgence. He was at 18-19 €/piece on magiccardmarket.eu...
Today i looked again an I cant believe what i see!!! Cheapest for 50 € in spanish A english one for 58 €!?!
Can anybody explain me that fuckin price explosion??? I know he is good but not Jace good! Maybe playable in our Maverick??

https://www.magickartenmarkt.de/Voic...c1p261356.prod

Greeting from Germany^^

Manipulato
05-04-2013, 11:05 AM
For once, not trolling:

What do you guys see as the difference been you and other Junk / Rock decks? In the past it's been easy to say "hatebears", but now a lot of the GW/b builds don't run any Thalia. Do you think having a more consistent GWb manabase is better than the option of not focusing on KotR and being more solidly 3 colors like Junk?


I'm a little bit surprised that the GWb decks with discard instead of Thalia are actually having success against combo. Combo decks are built to fight discard in their maindeck, but beating Thalia is much, much harder.

I had the same thought as you! Sure against fast combo we can interact with them on T1 but after the one discard spell we have nothing (exept maybe the 1off zenithed Teeg) to stop them from being kill us! Thalia lies on the battlefield for the whole game and stop them from killing us, Thoughtseize only pick them one card and thats it, so we only buy time but for what? We dont have a fast clock nor we have hatebears anymore. So I think maybe a combination between Thalias & Discard is the strongest option to fight unfair decks. The only question is what do we cut? For the moment i play 4 Thoughtseize main and Thalia + Canonist in the SB. This Saturday i will play my first Tournament with the B Splash, we will see how it works.

defector
05-04-2013, 07:47 PM
@kai_nsane: Another element against dredge is Teeg. He shuts off DR and keeps them from comboing out on you. It forces them into the long game which you are favored in.

IL_casual
05-05-2013, 01:44 AM
I had the same thought as you! Sure against fast combo we can interact with them on T1 but after the one discard spell we have nothing (exept maybe the 1off zenithed Teeg) to stop them from being kill us! Thalia lies on the battlefield for the whole game and stop them from killing us, Thoughtseize only pick them one card and thats it, so we only buy time but for what? We dont have a fast clock nor we have hatebears anymore. So I think maybe a combination between Thalias & Discard is the strongest option to fight unfair decks. The only question is what do we cut? For the moment i play 4 Thoughtseize main and Thalia + Canonist in the SB. This Saturday i will play my first Tournament with the B Splash, we will see how it works.

Against combo, thats exactly the whole strategy, discards for the early game and mom + teeg for the remainder of the match.

Manipulato
05-05-2013, 05:44 AM
Against combo, thats exactly the whole strategy, discards for the early game and mom + teeg for the remainder of the match.

The problem against fast combo (for example) is that if you play 1st turn Discard you cannot resolve 2nd turn Teeg because the zenith cost´s 3cc...Sometimes it can be just too slow, a thalia in the 2nd turn would be backbreaking for them...That´s the reason i will try the thalia´s in the SB for the moment.
Against Show&Tell Decks the Teeg main do nothing till not much against them, so we have only a 1-2nd turn discard, they play BS or Ponder and finish us (1st Game). The traditional GW build plays T2 Thalia and slow him down. Plus in combination with wastelands we can screw them...

IL_casual
05-05-2013, 11:05 AM
The problem against fast combo (for example) is that if you play 1st turn Discard you cannot resolve 2nd turn Teeg because the zenith cost´s 3cc...Sometimes it can be just too slow, a thalia in the 2nd turn would be backbreaking for them...That´s the reason i will try the thalia´s in the SB for the moment.
Against Show&Tell Decks the Teeg main do nothing till not much against them, so we have only a 1-2nd turn discard, they play BS or Ponder and finish us (1st Game). The traditional GW build plays T2 Thalia and slow him down. Plus in combination with wastelands we can screw them...

3 Thalia's (the number i need for thalia to be available in turn 2) seem to be too many for a sideboard. But i do have to agree, in a combo based meta, i would have to agree thalia can greatly help in at least slowing down our opponent. Just be aware that in sideboarded games, ant/tinfin decks just pack chains of vapor and wait before going off.

sdematt
05-05-2013, 11:37 AM
If you're in a Combo based meta and you're running GWB, you run ~6 or more slots of discard, 3 Thalia, and 2-3 Teeg with GSZ to tutor against Combo. This is how you attempt to reliably beat Combo. You won't ALWAYS get them, but it gets there most of the time.

-Matt

kai_nsane
05-05-2013, 11:48 AM
I think, if youre on the draw, the combo mu is always bad. They can go off on your turn, then you just have time to cast one Discardspell/DS/MoR or GSZ->DA.

In the 2nd game you can boarding Ethersworn Canonist+Enlightened Tutor. Maybe Surgical Extraction, Revoker/Needle to shut off Petals and Engineered Explosives (For Tokens).
With 4 Ethersworn Canonist (1 Canonist 3 Tutor) and 1 Teeg+4GSZ + Discard you have the best Options to win this mu imo.

I think Ethersworn is the better Thalia, because it shutdown Storm (With MoR protection) and its tutorable.

Fatal
05-05-2013, 12:11 PM
Comparison:

Factor - Thalia vs Canonist - Overlay

Storm MU - Thalia is better because stops also cantrips and free mana sources(tax them) - sometimes Belcher then go off with Canon though the Canonist.
Thalia 1 - 0 Canonist

Dredge - Thalia is very good in this MU - it can totally stops therapies, and all draw spells if connected with wasteland - Canonist do here mostly nothing.
Thalia 2 - 0 Canonist

S&T - Thalia buy a turn - Canonist with Karakas can stops all non-Sneak for also a turn but post fact after thread is already in play.
Thalia 2 - 1 Canonist

Body factor - Thalia dies to dread of night.

Thalia 2 - 2 Canonist

Type - Thalia is legendary which is bad here - Canonist on the other hand is an artifact which open more way to remove it.

Thalia 3 - 3 Canonist

Creature combat - Thalia has first strike which is very good.

Thalia 4 - 3 Canonist

Elves MU - Thalia do nothing here - where canonist stops Glimpse route

Thalia 4 - 4 Canonist

Symmetric effect - We running about 8-12 noncreature spells in all deck, only elves running less (but not always) and only 1-2 artifacts which mean we are also slowed down by Canonist effect.

Thalia 5 - 4 Canonist

Tutorable - Canonist can be found by E.Tutor which Thalia can't

Thalia 5 - 5 Canonist


Overlay is tide :) but if your meta contain Elves be prepared for it.

IL_casual
05-05-2013, 01:11 PM
My sideboard in an open meta
1 cabal therapy- i already know their deck based from game 1. Vs combo (i think thoughtseize might be better here)
2 enlightened tutor - never leave a white deck without it."
1 aethersworn canonist- vs goblins/elves/storm
1 choke- for the ever popular island
1 circle of protection red - is the nuts vs rdw
1 linvala -vs midrange fair decks/mirror(flex slot)
1 bojuka bog - vs dredge and grave based decks
2 surgical extraction - see above
1 oblivion ring - my catch all
1 gaddock teeg - vs combo and control
1 engineered explosives- catch all 2
2 engineered plague - a nightmare for tribal decks.

Any suggestion what i should change?

Fatal
05-05-2013, 01:27 PM
I would put in 1 more removal on SB but it depends how many you have on MD (Abrupt Decay for sure), also second Jitte, it is also vs all middle range/tribal decks.

BlackFlameAshura
05-05-2013, 11:51 PM
Hey Guys,
yesterday i looked at the price of Voice of Resurgence. He was at 18-19 €/piece on magiccardmarket.eu...
Today i looked again an I cant believe what i see!!! Cheapest for 50 € in spanish A english one for 58 €!?!
Can anybody explain me that fuckin price explosion??? I know he is good but not Jace good! Maybe playable in our Maverick??

https://www.magickartenmarkt.de/Voic...c1p261356.prod

Greeting from Germany^^

Most likely just Standard speculation is my assumption. He's NOT gonna stay up that high. I still think he might be seeing some fringe play in Maverick here but we're talking VERY fringe and most likely making it a meta call. You almost certainly won't be seeing him in any SCG lists. He's also not horrible for EDH where you have multiple people casting lots of spells on other peoples' turns, though it really is probably all just due to Standard. The decks he's played in aren't exactly top tier from what I can tell but he showed up in a few of the top 16 SCG list this week and each deck he was in he was a 4-of. Once there's a little more supply and a bit less demand from the people wanting to try him in other formats, he'll drop a bit, probably hover close to $20-25 when all's said and done until he rotates out of Standard (not quite sure bout the European market number).

SBGpinas
05-06-2013, 12:31 AM
Comparison:

Factor - Thalia vs Canonist - Overlay

Storm MU - Thalia is better because stops also cantrips and free mana sources(tax them) - sometimes Belcher then go off with Canon though the Canonist.
Thalia 1 - 0 Canonist

Dredge - Thalia is very good in this MU - it can totally stops therapies, and all draw spells if connected with wasteland - Canonist do here mostly nothing.
Thalia 2 - 0 Canonist

S&T - Thalia buy a turn - Canonist with Karakas can stops all non-Sneak for also a turn but post fact after thread is already in play.
Thalia 2 - 1 Canonist

Body factor - Thalia dies to dread of night.

Thalia 2 - 2 Canonist

Type - Thalia is legendary which is bad here - Canonist on the other hand is an artifact which open more way to remove it.

Thalia 3 - 3 Canonist

Creature combat - Thalia has first strike which is very good.

Thalia 4 - 3 Canonist

Elves MU - Thalia do nothing here - where canonist stops Glimpse route

Thalia 4 - 4 Canonist

Symmetric effect - We running about 8-12 noncreature spells in all deck, only elves running less (but not always) and only 1-2 artifacts which mean we are also slowed down by Canonist effect.

Thalia 5 - 4 Canonist

Tutorable - Canonist can be found by E.Tutor which Thalia can't

Thalia 5 - 5 Canonist


Overlay is tide :) but if your meta contain Elves be prepared for it.

Just to add to this analysis, Canonist stops Cascade strategies, while Thalia only sometimes slows it down. So +1 to Canonist.

kai_nsane
05-06-2013, 01:48 AM
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55299

I like your list. I play with it too. I just swap Thoughtseize with IoK, because of the price.

Is there space for 2 Abrupt Decay in the MD? Sometimes i miss them, but i dont know what to cut.

IL_casual
05-06-2013, 07:53 AM
Just to add to this analysis, Canonist stops Cascade strategies, while Thalia only sometimes slows it down. So +1 to Canonist.

Didnt realize canonist should be boarded in vs cascade decks! Nice tech!

SBGpinas
05-06-2013, 09:01 AM
Didnt realize canonist should be boarded in vs cascade decks! Nice tech!

Granted, they can play around it, and it doesn't really stop Shardless Agent from Cascading into something (it's an Artifact Creature, after all), but it's going to hinder them a lot more than Thalia.

It stops Bloodbraid Elf's Cascade though

ironclad8690
05-06-2013, 11:36 AM
Has anyone tried out the fauna shaman package recently? Does it still have merit? I'm thinking about picking up Gaea's Cradle, Loyal retainers and elesh norn, but I am not sure if it would make much of a difference.

diakocjay
05-06-2013, 12:52 PM
Has anyone tried out the fauna shaman package recently? Does it still have merit? I'm thinking about picking up Gaea's Cradle, Loyal retainers and elesh norn, but I am not sure if it would make much of a difference.

With the increased number of Deathrite shaman players in my meta, I think its not as viable as before. You see, once Elesh Norn hits the GY then DRS will just remove it. But again it depends on your meta. please wait 2 seconds for an uncompressed image, or press Ctrl+F5 for original quality page

Lord_Mcdonalds
05-07-2013, 02:00 AM
Has anyone tried out the fauna shaman package recently? Does it still have merit? I'm thinking about picking up Gaea's Cradle, Loyal retainers and elesh norn, but I am not sure if it would make much of a difference.

What diakojay said, if a DRS player allows that to happen, you were probably winning that match because your opponent does not know what s/he is doing, the Loyal Retainers+Elesh Norn package only really worked in the mirror, but it's clunky, requires Fauna Shaman, and almost everyone sees it coming.

Unless you really need to beat zoo

Cradle is definitely worth having in the deck, it's made much better with GSZ (as mid-late game, it allows you to grab any hate bear you need to break a standstill in your favor), or with Ooze (ever want to watch a dredge player squirm uncontrollably)

Arsenal
05-07-2013, 09:11 AM
As someone who was on the fence about Gaea's Cradle, I'm glad I picked 1 up. While Maverick can operate just fine without it, it's a really nice bonus to have mid-late game when I want to Ooze my opponent's GY into oblivion or GSZ for Sigarda without really trying. And it you're running equipment, Cradle for 2-4 really opens up your lines of play.

ironclad8690
05-07-2013, 02:04 PM
As someone who was on the fence about Gaea's Cradle, I'm glad I picked 1 up. While Maverick can operate just fine without it, it's a really nice bonus to have mid-late game when I want to Ooze my opponent's GY into oblivion or GSZ for Sigarda without really trying. And it you're running equipment, Cradle for 2-4 really opens up your lines of play.

Yeah, I think I will probably go the cradle route. I played in a small LGS tourney last night, and I played with cradle and sigarda. Unfortunately I went 1-2 losing to a BWg deadguy ale deck and a storm deck. The main problem with cradle was that If I had a dryad arbor or nobles out, they would get pernicious deeded away and I was always 1 mana away from GSZ for sigarda (lilianas were the deciding factor in the match and sigarda would have crushed). I think I will put a sword of light and shadow in my board with 1 stoneforge to fetch it to help with that match in the future.

diakocjay
05-08-2013, 07:58 AM
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55299

I like your list. I play with it too. I just swap Thoughtseize with IoK, because of the price.

Is there space for 2 Abrupt Decay in the MD? Sometimes i miss them, but i dont know what to cut.


I have a question though, on this list he used Thoughtsieze (I love thoughtsieze as much as the next guy but don't you think Duress would be better?) I think you added Thoughtsieze as a disruption against combo. Usually they use non creature spells, is there any instance that you prefer to discard a creature instead of a non creature? (Sorry for the noob question, I just went back playing legacy and i'm still learning the ropes :) ) please wait 2 seconds for an uncompressed image, or press Ctrl+F5 for original quality page

syfilisx
05-08-2013, 08:20 AM
You won't always play against combo, but when you do duress is probably all upsides.
But days you do not play against them there wil matchups where you will miss with duress g1 and that feels bad.

SBGpinas
05-08-2013, 09:52 AM
I have a question though, on this list he used Thoughtsieze (I love thoughtsieze as much as the next guy but don't you think Duress would be better?) I think you added Thoughtsieze as a disruption against combo. Usually they use non creature spells, is there any instance that you prefer to discard a creature instead of a non creature? (Sorry for the noob question, I just went back playing legacy and i'm still learning the ropes :) ) please wait 2 seconds for an uncompressed image, or press Ctrl+F5 for original quality page

Sneak Show comes to mind... you might wanna discard the fatty in a hand that contains no enablers to dig the opponent deeper into the hole he's in.

ironclad8690
05-08-2013, 07:39 PM
Is it worth it to side in linvala vs deathrite shaman decks?

Sunyveil
05-09-2013, 01:29 AM
It's been a while since I've visited these boards, so I'm going to try to answer as much as possible in one post.

Thoughtseize > Duress imo because sometimes against Show and Tell you want to take their fatty if they have 2 Show and Tells or whatever. Duress is fine, I've played it in tournaments where I never wanted to take a creature, but I think Thoughseize is better if you have access to it.

Cradle is good, but only if you're running straight GW imo. I can't think of a land I'd want to cut for it in the already-crowded GWb manabase, though maybe the second Horizon Canopy? Cradle's real power resides in being able to devour graveyards with Ooze, so keep that in mind.

I've played Fauna Shaman before, and never liked it. Yes, it can tutor, but the effect is slow and dependent on the Fauna Shaman's survival, and they're terrible in multiples. The only reason I'd play one is to tutor for a non-green creature, and right now I don't think that's necessary.

I have maindecked Linvala before. It's metagame dependent -- she's pretty bad against combo but total lights out against D+T and Maverick.

For the Thalia vs. Canonist debate, I like Canonist more if she's in the sideboard because she's tutorable and you don't need to waste valuable slots with multiples. As far as the effect they have on the game, I think Thalia is slightly better.

diakocjay
05-09-2013, 03:43 AM
It's been a while since I've visited these boards, so I'm going to try to answer as much as possible in one post.

Thoughtseize > Duress imo because sometimes against Show and Tell you want to take their fatty if they have 2 Show and Tells or whatever. Duress is fine, I've played it in tournaments where I never wanted to take a creature, but I think Thoughseize is better if you have access to it.

Cradle is good, but only if you're running straight GW imo. I can't think of a land I'd want to cut for it in the already-crowded GWb manabase, though maybe the second Horizon Canopy? Cradle's real power resides in being able to devour graveyards with Ooze, so keep that in mind.

I've played Fauna Shaman before, and never liked it. Yes, it can tutor, but the effect is slow and dependent on the Fauna Shaman's survival, and they're terrible in multiples. The only reason I'd play one is to tutor for a non-green creature, and right now I don't think that's necessary.

I have maindecked Linvala before. It's metagame dependent -- she's pretty bad against combo but total lights out against D+T and Maverick.

For the Thalia vs. Canonist debate, I like Canonist more if she's in the sideboard because she's tutorable and you don't need to waste valuable slots with multiples. As far as the effect they have on the game, I think Thalia is slightly better.


Wow thank you for the response. How about duress vs IoK? I would also want to know why you didn't board Mindbreak Trap? Are there not that many combo decks in your meta?

Sunyveil
05-09-2013, 03:50 AM
Wow thank you for the response. How about duress vs IoK? I would also want to know why you didn't board Mindbreak Trap? Are there not that many combo decks in your meta?

If you have Abrupt Decay in your 75, you almost certainly want Duress instead of IoK. You have a lot of random ways to deal with creatures, and no way to deal with the stack.

As far as Mindbreak Trap goes, it's not tutorable in our deck so it takes up too much sideboard room.

Pans-Advocate
05-09-2013, 05:35 AM
Is it worth it to side in linvala vs deathrite shaman decks?

Given that Deathrite Shaman decks often use Abrupt Decay and sometimes Lightning Bolt as their primary spot removal, Linvala is often nuts in those matchups not necessarily as a Deathrite nerf but rather as a finisher that they can't block or kill very easily. I've seen Stoneblade players run Restoration Angel for the same reason ... A 4-drop 3/4 flyer just happens to be the perfect body to have against anyone relying on Abrupt Decay. I side in Linvala against Deathrites based on this fact alone.

I've been on a streak with GW locally, 14-2 over the last 4 weekly events I've attended across the past couple months (events are 12-16 players usually, I've split top 4 each time). Here's what my list has stabilized on:

1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Savannah
1 Maze of Ith
4 Windswept Heath

1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Mother of Runes
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Qasali Pridemage

2 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Path to Exile
2 Choke
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Armageddon
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Crop Rotation

I would say that about once per tournament I win a match that I would not have won if my opponent had known and understood the matchup well, and sometimes it's more often than that, but that's just what happens at small local tournaments.

M@verick
05-09-2013, 06:15 PM
More results.
The deck is the one which i posted last time. I have just finished 5 in a legacy trial on bazar of moxen. We were more than 400 players.

Results:
Esper blade 2-0
team america 2-0
black D&T 2-1
Doomsday 2-1
Merfolks 2-0
Elves combo 2-0
Miracles 1-1
Rug delver 2-0
Bant agro 2-0
Jund 0-2

Ten rounds without top8

torthek
05-09-2013, 07:27 PM
More results.
The deck is the one which i posted last time. I have just finished 5 in a legacy trial on bazar of moxen. We were more than 400 players.

Results:
Esper blade 2-0
team america 2-0
black D&T 2-1
Doomsday 2-1
Merfolks 2-0
Elves combo 2-0
Miracles 1-1
Rug delver 2-0
Bant agro 2-0
Jund 0-2

Ten rounds without top8

Nicely done Sir!

Morte
05-10-2013, 02:40 AM
Well done Luis!

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10747




LCL 2013 - Abril







Number of Players : 110

Date: 20/04/2013
Format: Legacy


Send Video (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/send.php?id=10747&it=video)




Deck Name: Maverick
Position: 1


Maverick
Luis Viciano
Sideboard



Creatures [27]
2 Gaddock Teeg (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Gaddock%20Teeg)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Phyrexian%20Revoker)
2 Scryb Ranger (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Scryb%20Ranger)
2 Sylvan Safekeeper (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Sylvan%20Safekeeper)
3 Birds of Paradise (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Birds%20of%20Paradise)
3 Knight of the Reliquary (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Knight%20of%20the%20Reliquary)
3 Mother of Runes (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Mother%20of%20Runes)
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Thalia,%20Guardian%20of%20Thraben)
3 Weathered Wayfarer (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Weathered%20Wayfarer)
4 Stoneforge Mystic (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Stoneforge%20Mystic)

Instants [4]
4 Swords to Plowshares (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Swords%20to%20Plowshares)

Artifacts [7]
1 Sword of Fire and Ice (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Sword%20of%20Fire%20and%20Ice)
1 Sword of Light and Shadow (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Sword%20of%20Light%20and%20Shadow)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Umezawa's%20Jitte)
4 Aether Vial (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Aether%20Vial)


Lands [22]
1 Forest (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Forest)
1 Gaea's Cradle (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Gaea's%20Cradle)
1 Karakas (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Karakas)
1 Maze of Ith (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Maze%20of%20Ith)
1 Plains (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Plains)
2 Cavern of Souls (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Cavern%20of%20Souls)
3 Horizon Canopy (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Horizon%20Canopy)
4 Savannah (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Savannah)
4 Wasteland (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Wasteland)
4 Windswept Heath (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Windswept%20Heath)


1 Gaddock Teeg (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Gaddock%20Teeg)
2 Choke (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Choke)
3 Mindbreak Trap (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Mindbreak%20Trap)
4 Oblivion Ring (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Oblivion%20Ring)
2 Rest in Peace (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Rest%20in%20Peace)
3 Surgical Extraction (http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=Surgical%20Extraction)



Send Tournament Report (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/send.php?id=10747&iddeck=78477&it=report)

60 Cards

15 Cards




Your list is extremely interesting. I think it's not as popular as it deserves just becuase the typical player doesn't know how to pilot it at best. Can you post some example videos? Or write a M@verick tutorial? How to play Weathered Wayfarer, what do you choose between your one drops, the best strategy against the tiers... Would be much appreciated :smile: