[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[Vandalize]

Oh and @Vandalize, why would you ever play IOK over Thoughtseize or Duress? It doesnt remove important cards like Ad Nauseam, Sneak attack, Hive mind, Omni and numerous other cards.

Yeah, those IoK were meant to be Duress. I just typed my discard package from Deathblade, lol.

[litenkatt]

Been testing a bit with 4 Confidants and love them. I dont understand when people say that our curve is too high which makes bob unreliable. We have 4 knights at CMC3 and thats it, the lifeloss from bob is insignificant and the card advantage is awesome. Bought a playset for 200$, id say thats pretty good

I also prefer Thalias over discard, they slow down most decks by a fair bit and obv sick against storm. They also do damage and can carry jitte

[Telkku]

Been testing a bit with 4 Confidants and love them. I dont understand when people say that our curve is too high which makes bob unreliable. We have 4 knights at CMC3 and thats it, the lifeloss from bob is insignificant and the card advantage is awesome. Bought a playset for 200$, id say thats pretty good

I also prefer Thalias over discard, they slow down most decks by a fair bit and obv sick against storm. They also do damage and can carry jitte


One thing adding BoB does to the deck is that (as ive mentioned in the previous posts) you have to just make the curve as smooth as possible. Which is not a bad thing at all. And yes, lifeloss doesnt feel at all, many times ive had 3 x BoB in and no worries cause highest cmc is 3 and theres jitte, shammy, stop.

I think Thalia vs Teeg + Discard is a metagame call. And depending if you play Decay with Stop too or does it make a difference to you to pay 1 more. And for me with Cradle it doesnt.

[Barook]

I'm testing Telkku's MD list right now on Cockatrice, except I replaced 1 MD Wasteland with a Karakas. Bob seems really good and the curve is low.

As far as 4 MD DRS are concerned: Yes, they're good, but I also like a split with other mana dorks since DRS can't always get mana early. You can't cannibalize your GY off lands like other decks packing DRS since you don't want to make your KotR a complete wimp. Different strokes for different people, I guess.

[Flopnuts72]

I like how people are starting to play bob with mom. This is the list I have been playing for a few months now and has been good in testing. I switch between the souls and thalia main all the time but I think thalia main is the right choice. Just to have a shot against storm/combo you need her and is still good against fair decks.

Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:23
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells:15
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands:23 2 Bayou
1 Forest 1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bitter blossom
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
4 Lingering Souls
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility

[Barook]

Is it just me or is Painter Servant a terrible match-up? Grabbing mana dorks/basics can only get you that far and if they go T1 Moon on the play, you're pretty boned right from the start. And their clock can be pretty fast at times, although we have removal for that.

On a different note:
What's your current tech against opposing Punishing Fires? Decks packing those tend to destroy us and RiP isn't the best solution since it hurts us, too. Sunyveil runs Absolute Law as SB tech now, but its performance is yet to be seen. Obscure sideboard cards I've looked up:

Mark of Asylum (worse than Absolute Law, but a combo with Ulvenwald Tracker)
Energy Storm (also stops Delvers, but cumulative upkeep hurts)
Inner Sanctum (probably too expensive to keep it around for a while)

Or just run a bunch of Surgicals and hope you get lucky with drawing one?

[Fatal]

Best answers vs PF is probably more Oozes MD, and Surgical on sb (you need to play it right in respond to Grove Trigger). Surgicals are also good cards vs combo like Past in Flames/Reanimator/All Spells etc

About Imperial Painter MU it's tricky MU, very depends who is on play and Painter hand.

Let's take some scenerios to look closer on this MU:

Preside:

1) Painter on play with possible turn 1 Moon Effect

Answer - only 1 - have basics or answer vs Moon, PF Versions helps here since you can answer vs Magus of the Moon

2) Painter on draw with possible turn 1 Moon Effect/Bolt your dork

Answer - keep hand with fetchland which can find you answer, proper choose is Forest since it can help you grab manadorks (Shaman's aren't best here, first Manadork which you should grab is BoP/Hierarch) you can also grab from GSZ Qasali Pridemage.

Keep in mind that they also can go combo route with Painter - REB/Pyro your basic which means you have trouble.

MVP cards which brings your vicotory - Knight of the Reliquary with 2 lands in gy, Qasali Pridemage vs Blood Moon and all other stuff, Stoneforge Mystic for Jitte, all removal.

3) How to deal with resolved Painter - wait for REB/Pyro and try to answer with removal (Active Qasali will be best since he can't counter it), don't forget that they running Smian Spirit Guide which can lead to some unexpected REB/Pyro in response.

Post side:

For sure Red Splash is favorable - having own blasts helps a lot and bring answers to all
- Rebs
- Ancient Grudge

SB Cards which aren't completely junk vs other MU - Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - yes just run 1 of them on sb it helps a little in S&T MU, but its shuffle trigger is best answer vs Painter - Grindstone combo.

Black splash can bring more discard - Thoughtsieze/ IoK which stops turn 1/2 Blood Moon.

Even a Oblivion Rings so you can answer Moon Effect.

Which cards aren't great vs them so what you can take out:
- all Plainswalkers - they're too costy mostly
- Gaddock Teeg - blanc mostly - can only answer Koth, but also lock your GSZ
- Loam if you running it MD with so many Moon Effects it will be rather usless
- Scavening Ooze - works only vs Goblin Welder so does removal
- Maze of Ith

After SB look out for more burn on your creatures - specially your manadorks.

If you running black splash and they don't play Turn 1 Moon, keep open mana for Decay's they can't answer them, and it is your best answer vs Moon effects and Combo.

I played a lot of games vs Imperial Painter since my buddy from my playgroup is Painter lover ;P.

[conley1000000]

Had a great weekend with Maverick at SCG Cinci. Went 4-0 in the legacy challenge on saturday beating ANT, 4C Loam, BG Pox and Lands which covered my entry for sundays open. Started of 3-0 beating Shardless, Lands(same guy from the night before) and elves. RD 4 I played my good friend piloting 12 post and lost in 3 really close games. After that I rattled off wins against Dredge, Sneak and Show, and Shardless. Then I made my only haunting mistake of the day when after having 3 very grindy games against 4C loam I scooped following a Massacre that left me with only a boguka bog on the field. Scooping was the mistake bc his 3/3 Knight of the Reliquary wasnt going to kill me as time was just called in the round and my life was more than sufficient to withstand 2 attack phases and could have went to the 9th and final round at X-1-1 and had a chance to compete for the top 8 slot that he eventually took...on a positive note though I was able to draw with my 9th round opponent and secure myself 25th and cash prize. Ive been playing maverick since a few months before GP Atlanta and havent thought twice about giving it up. I fully believe the deck has plenty of tools at its desposal to compete week in and week out. The list I ran for reference:

Dirty Maverick

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
3 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

SB:
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Armageddon
1 Path to Exile
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Life from the Loam
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ethersworn Canonist

[oSeabass]

The list I ran for reference:

Dirty Maverick

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
3 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

SB:
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Armageddon
1 Path to Exile
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Life from the Loam
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ethersworn Canonist

1. How did Thrun work out for you?
2. "" Swords of X&Y ""?
3. "" Ulvenwald Tracker in the board ""?
4. Was the Wilt-Leaf in the board for the sole purpose of getting discarded against BUG style decks? I've considered him and Loxodon Smiter in a GWB Maverick list to combat those decks with Hymn to Tourach.
5. 3 Mystics with 2 Swords/1 Jitte main, no Batterskull in the board for hyper aggro decks? I feel like Batterskull is great in races, and helps a lot against Storm (on the EtW plan). I feel like I would want to find a spot in the board for the single BS.

[conley1000000]

1. How did Thrun work out for you?
2. "" Swords of X&Y ""?
3. "" Ulvenwald Tracker in the board ""?
4. Was the Wilt-Leaf in the board for the sole purpose of getting discarded against BUG style decks? I've considered him and Loxodon Smiter in a GWB Maverick list to combat those decks with Hymn to Tourach.
5. 3 Mystics with 2 Swords/1 Jitte main, no Batterskull in the board for hyper aggro decks? I feel like Batterskull is great in races, and helps a lot against Storm (on the EtW plan). I feel like I would want to find a spot in the board for the single BS.

1. Thrun was my allstar MVP of the weekend. Starting the week leading up he wasn't in my 76. By thursday he was the main attraction. We discussed him alot through the week and we kept coming back to the same question: How can any of the main creature decks deal with him? The only real answer was with lilliana but with access to 25 other creatures it would be really hard for him to leave the board. One of the guys I went with wasn't on board with Thrun but switched after the saturday challenge, once he watched an equipt thrun swing through double maze of ith.
2./5. Batterskull started the week in my list. But made its way to the board after the addition of Thrun, as a new gameplan was adapted to "build a titan" Sure alot of decks are running aprupt decay but we felt that adding a second sword option for thrun, and really any creature for that matter, would help push a quick clock with added affects to compliment the disruption we were bringing. Eventually Batterskull was replaced in the board for Ethersworn as saturdays field was filled with Storm/combo based decks. That point held true for Sunday as well.
I've always gone with Light and Shadow based off of personal preference. Reaccuring dudes and having protections from germ token and STP has always been at the top of my list. Fire and Ice was purely an attrition pick. Add 2 damage and have a card, plus swing through Baleful Strix and have protection from Patriot(haven't played against it yet but the deck frightens me).
3. Tracker is a bit of a "pet idea" card. I like the thought of repeatable removal. I know he has his draw backs, but he carries alot of upside as well being able to tutor for him, works well with creatures wearing swords and obviosly mothers protection. I'm sure not everyone is going to get behind that but I like to have options.
4. If Thruns taken home the MVP honors then Wilt-Leaf definitely gets the 6th man award(I like basketball)! Obviously the main idea behind him was the discard affect. Awhile ago I had settled on Loxodon Smiter because he felt more efficient being cheaper and having the "cant be countered" ability, and I didnt see a need to pump my other creatures. The change happened when someone asked me what my game plan for golgari charm out of Shardless was. Its the "it" deck at the opens atm and I came prepared for it with the Wilt Leafs, as in my second matchup of the day against it I finished with both on board(the second was to really rub it in) and my opponent conceded showing me his hand, with golgari charm. Also against Shardless the only removal they really rely on is Abrupt Decay, which cant hit the Liege.

Hope that answers your questions!

[oSeabass]

Hope that answers your questions!

It did. I have been playing around with "Dark Maverick" for a while, because traditional GW was my first real Legacy deck and I kinda fell in love with it. I like the Thrun a lot, since he is tough to deal with from the fair decks in the format.

Normally my sideboard (in traditional GW) was a more Enlightened Tutor package running cards like Sylvan Library, Choke, E. Canonist, Worship, etc. I figured I could just add another toolbox to the Legacy toolbox deck, allowing me to tutor up silver bullets post board for Creatures (GSZ), Lands (KOTR), Artifacts/Enchantments (E. Tutor). That being said I like the inclusion of black for Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy to fight combo. 4 Thalia and 2 GT are normally enough to slow the combo down, but they still can just kill you turn 2 on the play against your 2 drops. That point I like the idea of the turn 1 Black discard spell, especially when you have creatures to flashback Therapy with.

I see the need for W.Leaf being the 4 CMC to get past Abrupt Decay, and the buff helping negate a bit of mass removal like Massacre or Golgari Charm (-2/2, -1/1 respectively).

Maverick has always been my go to when I wanna audible to a familiar deck. If I wasn't jamming storm for practice to prepare for GP DC, I'd probably jump back into the GWb Maverick lists. I think adding Black for discard and DRS > adding Red for Punishing Fire. I think we are already ok enough against creature decks, but we really need the black to fix gaps in combo (from lack of hard counters). I could see running some numbers of (U) counters in board for combo, which we can cast off Noble H. and/or DRS.

[Barook]

Abrupt Decay sure has it advantages, but after facing 3x DRS on the opposing side yesterday, I'm asking myself: Has anybody with the black splash tested Maelstrom Pulse yet as a sideboard card?

[Koby]

Abrupt Decay sure has it advantages, but after facing 3x DRS on the opposing side yesterday, I'm asking myself: Has anybody with the black splash tested Maelstrom Pulse yet as a sideboard card?

Echoing Decay? I suppose that having ways to kill equipment, Jaces, Moats, etc is also useful however.

[oSeabass]

Echoing Decay? I suppose that having ways to kill equipment, Jaces, Moats, etc is also useful however.

The non-counterable part seems more relevant against Delver and Goyf in matchups like RUG. The only real big problem card Decay doesnt deal with is Jace I think, but an active Mom should handle that just fine. I thought about running EE for a while since with a Noble H./DRS you can have access to all 5 colors for the Sunburst. EE might be tricky to cast, but I think having it on 4 to beat a Jace seems decent. Just a thought to go with my Enlightened Tutor sideboard package.

The other problem with Pulse, is it hits your own DRS. If they have 2 DRS and you have 1, Pulse seems meh. In that situation I would rather use like a Linvala out of the board to just shut down their DRS and have a nice (non abrupt decayable) evasive body.

[ThediscoPower]

Abrupt Decay sure has it advantages, but after facing 3x DRS on the opposing side yesterday, I'm asking myself: Has anybody with the black splash tested Maelstrom Pulse yet as a sideboard card?

I did actually, and it did ok. I was running it as a 1-of in the sideboard. However, I took it out because 90% of the time, I never really used it to multi kill anything, so in the end, o-ring and decay were already doing the job I needed. The upside tho is that you can kill tokens too, but I already have zealous persecution for that. On another note, weren't you running both black and red? What do you think of fire covenant?

also quick edit : Anyone played against stoneblade with red? I feel like everytime I play against it, it's always the same: I get destroyed by 1 million removal spells comming at me non stop (bolts, stp, snap, izzet charms (yes, even that), add lavamancer and sulfur elemental postboard for maximum rage effect), and then jace shows up and game over, to the point where I don't really know what my game plan is, at that point. Any advice is welcome, I am on verge of nervous breakdown.

[Barook]

I did actually, and it did ok. I was running it as a 1-of in the sideboard. However, I took it out because 90% of the time, I never really used it to multi kill anything, so in the end, o-ring and decay were already doing the job I needed. The upside tho is that you can kill tokens too, but I already have zealous persecution for that. On another note, weren't you running both black and red? What do you think of fire covenant?
The double splash has already an atrocious manabase, which isn't the best plan with the potential rise of Blood Moon effects. I'll keep on working on it on the sidelines, but for now, I'm sticking the more established Dark Maverick build as far as Legacy Daily Events are concerned.

I've considered Fire Convenant, but since it's two off-color mana, it might be very problematic to cast.

conley1000000 talking abot toolboxes got me thinking, though I mentioned it before, but I still think it's worth talking about:

Worldly Tutor board vs. E-Tutor

Both can grab Canonist and Revoker.

E-Tutor can grab O-Ring (which is huge), Crypt, and equipment.

W-Tutor can grab Thalia, Teeg or whatever creature you desire and opens up unexplored sideboard options (Opponent wants to uptick Liliana next turn? Better grab a Wilt-Leaf Liege. Linvala, Keeper of Silence would also become more accessible, as would Master of the Wild Hunt when you only need 1+4 instead of 5 mana to get him going.). Question is whether or not it's worth the trade-off of losing tutorable O-Rings. But considering W-Tutor can grab a KotR which can screw with S&T Emrakuls just as hard and Pridemage can solve Omniscience, it might be not that bad.

[oSeabass]

conley1000000 talking abot toolboxes got me thinking, though I mentioned it before, but I still think it's worth talking about:

Back in the GW days, I ran a one of Fauna Shaman as a better Worldly Tutor effect on a stick, that can carry swords, is tutorable itself with GSZ, and can find Thalia when you need her.

I personally enjoyed my ETutor sideboard, as MOST of the hate cards these days are artifact/enchantments. The only thing is that by adding Black you can make your combo match up even better with discard spells in the board (C. Therapy and Thoughtseize). So if I was building a GWb Sideboard now with the ETutor package it would look something like this:

E Tutor Package (10)---------------
2 Enlightened Tutor. Allows virtual copies of all your hate, and lets you run some cool silver bullet sideboard tech if you are feeling adventurous.
2 Ethersworn Canonist. Storm/elf combo hoser, the 2/2 is relevant a lot too with a few Exalted triggers.
1 Batterskull. I like having access to this with the SF Mystics, as well as ET. Cradle lets us cast this more times then we should be able to. I like the ability to race other creature decks, Jitte and BSkull help a lot.
1 Tormod's Crypt. Against RUG, Dredge, Reanimator, etc. You want more graveyard hate, Bojuka Bog isn't enough since it is only tutorable on turn 3 with a sped up KotR on 2. Good in a lot of matchups, so I don't mind the extra targeted graveyard hate that works well with ET.
1 Sylvan Library. I go between this in the main/board. I like it in the board for now.
1 Worship. With a lot of resilient creatures late game due to swords and Mom, it makes it really tough for slow decks to grind through a Worship. Seems REAL good with a Thrun against any creature based strategy.
1 Oblivion Ring. Show and Tell variants. Standard stuff.
1 Choke. Good against High Tide, blue decks, Islands, etc.

Other (5)---------------
2 Cabal Therapy/T.Seize. Combo
1 Bojuka Bog. Instant speed graveyard hate.
1 Thalia. The 4th copy
1 Life from the Loam. Wasteland grindfest Legacy.dec. This comes in with the Sylvan Library to dig. You have so many shuffle effects with KotR, GSZ, SFM, that you can find this.


I could also see getting a Linvala or 2 in the board to shut off Elves, DRS, SFM, everything cool. Maybe cut a Canonist down to 1 and remove the Library (leave one main). Thoughts?

[conley1000000]

Abrupt Decay sure has it advantages, but after facing 3x DRS on the opposing side yesterday, I'm asking myself: Has anybody with the black splash tested Maelstrom Pulse yet as a sideboard card?
I found taking shamans fuel away is the best way to approach fighting the card. Honestly the only reason I splashed two in was to fight other deathrites and to have a quicker play on the yard. Scavenging Ooze also took care of the deathrites in my matches over the weekend.



also quick edit : Anyone played against stoneblade with red? I feel like everytime I play against it, it's always the same: I get destroyed by 1 million removal spells comming at me non stop (bolts, stp, snap, izzet charms (yes, even that), add lavamancer and sulfur elemental postboard for maximum rage effect), and then jace shows up and game over, to the point where I don't really know what my game plan is, at that point. Any advice is welcome, I am on verge of nervous breakdown.

This isnt what I want to hear. Like I said I havent played against the deck yet, but it looks terrifying.


And as far as the "X-Tutor" card discussion I use to be back and forth on at least E-Tutor. I've never thought about running Worldy Tutor but the only creatures I can't GSZ for I run in multiples and would expect to see them a fair amount. The thing that gets me with them is losing a card and basically a draw step. The target going to the top of your library doesnt help you on a t2 show and tell(them on the play). Id just rather run more of the card I know I need in bad matchups, and tune my board to very specific matchups. The reason I quit looking at Tutor boards is I felt I was spreading myself too thin. Wanting game against every match up possible. Quickly I realized that didnt work well for me so I started singling out the 5-6 most popular/successful decks and went to work on my board to specifically hit those types of decks in a way that complimented my main, not having to directly rely on my sb.

[ironclad8690]

I found taking shamans fuel away is the best way to approach fighting the card. Honestly the only reason I splashed two in was to fight other deathrites and to have a quicker play on the yard. Scavenging Ooze also took care of the deathrites in my matches over the weekend.



This isnt what I want to hear. Like I said I havent played against the deck yet, but it looks terrifying.


And as far as the "X-Tutor" card discussion I use to be back and forth on at least E-Tutor. I've never thought about running Worldy Tutor but the only creatures I can't GSZ for I run in multiples and would expect to see them a fair amount. The thing that gets me with them is losing a card and basically a draw step. The target going to the top of your library doesnt help you on a t2 show and tell(them on the play). Id just rather run more of the card I know I need in bad matchups, and tune my board to very specific matchups. The reason I quit looking at Tutor boards is I felt I was spreading myself too thin. Wanting game against every match up possible. Quickly I realized that didnt work well for me so I started singling out the 5-6 most popular/successful decks and went to work on my board to specifically hit those types of decks in a way that complimented my main, not having to directly rely on my sb.

Your sideboard does remind me of the Maverick sideboards of old. With Maverick, there are so many situational cards in the main deck that you can justify having many 1 of and 2 ofs without hurting consistency.

[Telkku]

I found taking shamans fuel away is the best way to approach fighting the card. Honestly the only reason I splashed two in was to fight other deathrites and to have a quicker play on the yard. Scavenging Ooze also took care of the deathrites in my matches over the weekend.



This isnt what I want to hear. Like I said I havent played against the deck yet, but it looks terrifying.


And as far as the "X-Tutor" card discussion I use to be back and forth on at least E-Tutor. I've never thought about running Worldy Tutor but the only creatures I can't GSZ for I run in multiples and would expect to see them a fair amount. The thing that gets me with them is losing a card and basically a draw step. The target going to the top of your library doesnt help you on a t2 show and tell(them on the play). Id just rather run more of the card I know I need in bad matchups, and tune my board to very specific matchups. The reason I quit looking at Tutor boards is I felt I was spreading myself too thin. Wanting game against every match up possible. Quickly I realized that didnt work well for me so I started singling out the 5-6 most popular/successful decks and went to work on my board to specifically hit those types of decks in a way that complimented my main, not having to directly rely on my sb.

Ive played against it many times and won every time, last one was the final of the tournament that i reported. We have so many threats that it is hard for them to react to all of them. EE is obviously a problem on the SB, i got lucky with it cause he didnt have mana to blow it up the same turn and i had decay, reason he didnt have the mana for it was my 2 x wastelands. Wasteland is really good in this MU, they have low land count and snapcaster needs some mana to work efficiently. Mom is our go to guy with scryb ranger. If you have both of them at the table you have propably won the game. Those equips they bring arent a problem.

Then to the batterskull matter. Ive tested it and ive had the same results that it doesnt even belong to the SB, it is not the card for maverick, its a card for Deathblade etc, decks who can protect it. Of course some people just like it so much that they wanna keep it in and thats their choice. It just doesnt bring anything that we dont allready have and you really dont wanna draw it from BoB or have it in opening hand. And drawing Jitte is just better than drawing a Stoneforge mystic.

[Barook]

And as far as the "X-Tutor" card discussion I use to be back and forth on at least E-Tutor. I've never thought about running Worldy Tutor but the only creatures I can't GSZ for I run in multiples and would expect to see them a fair amount. The thing that gets me with them is losing a card and basically a draw step. The target going to the top of your library doesnt help you on a t2 show and tell(them on the play). Id just rather run more of the card I know I need in bad matchups, and tune my board to very specific matchups. The reason I quit looking at Tutor boards is I felt I was spreading myself too thin. Wanting game against every match up possible. Quickly I realized that didnt work well for me so I started singling out the 5-6 most popular/successful decks and went to work on my board to specifically hit those types of decks in a way that complimented my main, not having to directly rely on my sb.
T2 S&T on the play is problematic in general, but then again, KotR/Karakas is a hard counter as long as it's a creature and we run multiple copies.

@oSeabass: Fauna Shaman seems insanely slow to get what you want, especially when you GSZ for it.

I'll do some research if there are enough valuable targets to make a W-Tutor board feasible. It just popped up in my mind that W-Tutor can grab a Mirran Crusader which is a great card against BUG since they lack the means to deal with it, planeswalkers and Whipflare aside.

@Telkku: Bob is pretty decent, but one problem I noticed is that black mana in the early game is premium and you can't always cast him when you want to. Sunyveil commented on his stream on the same problem.

I like my Batterskull, but I can also see where you're coming from. SFM is often dealt with and then you sit there with a dead card in hand.

[Telkku]

T2 S&T on the play is problematic in general, but then again, KotR/Karakas is a hard counter as long as it's a creature and we run multiple copies.

@oSeabass: Fauna Shaman seems insanely slow to get what you want, especially when you GSZ for it.

I'll do some research if there are enough valuable targets to make a W-Tutor board feasible. It just popped up in my mind that W-Tutor can grab a Mirran Crusader which is a great card against BUG since they lack the means to deal with it, planeswalkers and Whipflare aside.

@Telkku: Bob is pretty decent, but one problem I noticed is that black mana in the early game is premium and you can't always cast him when you want to. Sunyveil commented on his stream on the same problem.

I like my Batterskull, but I can also see where you're coming from. SFM is often dealt with and then you sit there with a dead card in hand.


I have to check this Sunyveils stream that you keep talking about :D I guess it depends on your mana base etc. but i have never had a problem casting him on turn 2 if ive had him in my hand. Except in situations i wanted to play something else. And it is the best black creature ever printed ( with griselbrand ) so decent is and understatement, it wins you games. Not only in our deck but in many other decks too, take the last weeks SCG Cin.

[Barook]

I have to check this Sunyveils stream that you keep talking about :D I guess it depends on your mana base etc. but i have never had a problem casting him on turn 2 if ive had him in my hand. Except in situations i wanted to play something else. And it is the best black creature ever printed ( with griselbrand ) so decent is and understatement, it wins you games. Not only in our deck but in many other decks too, take the last weeks SCG Cin.
Sure thing:

http://www.twitch.tv/Sunyveil

He mentioned it briefly when it came up in one of his games in the video of the latest Daily Event, around 11:40.

I'm testing with Sunyveil's manabase since I like the mana fixing in it alot more and even then, the problem comes up sometimes. Nevertheless, Bob is probably worth it despite this issue.

[bumgun]

What do you guys think about a 1 or 2-of Zealous Persecution in the SB? Obviously SB space for this deck is at a premium but there are plenty of situations where it could be an all-star. Elves, D&T, goblins, and the mirror are all times I'd love to have access to it.

[Telkku]

What do you guys think about a 1 or 2-of Zealous Persecution in the SB? Obviously SB space for this deck is at a premium but there are plenty of situations where it could be an all-star. Elves, D&T, goblins, and the mirror are all times I'd love to have access to it.

I will give it a try, i know my friend plays it on hes SB in " Rock " . And when i play vs him i tend to side out Mom's cause its just not worth to get blown out by it. So ye its good, but im still more worried about other decks, basic fair decks we should beat without relying too much on SB.

[conley1000000]

What do you guys think about a 1 or 2-of Zealous Persecution in the SB? Obviously SB space for this deck is at a premium but there are plenty of situations where it could be an all-star. Elves, D&T, goblins, and the mirror are all times I'd love to have access to it.

Wouldn't EE be better to cast on those situations? Maybe not as good vs goblins but seems good in the aspects.

[Barook]

What do you guys think about a 1 or 2-of Zealous Persecution in the SB? Obviously SB space for this deck is at a premium but there are plenty of situations where it could be an all-star. Elves, D&T, goblins, and the mirror are all times I'd love to have access to it.
Persecution is good, but drawing it without sufficient numbers or tutors is kind of iffy. E-Plague can be tutored for and does a pretty nice job as well.

@conley1000000: EE might work (especially since you can tutor for it), but e.g. for Elves, it kinda clashes with Teeg - and you want Teeg to block any GSZ/NO shenanigans right of the bat.

[ThediscoPower]

What do you guys think about a 1 or 2-of Zealous Persecution in the SB? Obviously SB space for this deck is at a premium but there are plenty of situations where it could be an all-star. Elves, D&T, goblins, and the mirror are all times I'd love to have access to it.

Have been using 2 in my sideboard for some time, and I have been very happy with them. Broke numerous amounts of goblins and DnTs with it, usually a total all star.

[oSeabass]

I'll do some research if there are enough valuable targets to make a W-Tutor board feasible. It just popped up in my mind that W-Tutor can grab a Mirran Crusader which is a great card against BUG since they lack the means to deal with it, planeswalkers and Whipflare aside.

After seeing a player at my LGS playing Mirran Crusader in Maverick, I kinda fell in love with the idea. Being able to literally blank BUG's entire creature base is really nice. Put a Sword of Fire & Ice on him, and he demolishes. Or for fun, put a Jitte on him and have fun pumping him in the normal damage part of combat, after he deals first strike and puts counters on Jitte.

I have really wanted to be able to find a place for him in my 75, if not in the main deck at least a spot or two in the board. But then again, turn 2 Hymn seems good against him still in hand where as the tech of Wilt-Leaf Liege and Obstinate Baloth seem better against discard.

[ironclad8690]

That new monster watchwolf guy seems pretty cool, sadly not better than anything we currently run though. Seems like a slightly worse thrun.

[Barook]

That new monster watchwolf guy seems pretty cool, sadly not better than anything we currently run though. Seems like a slightly worse thrun.
Watchwolf 2.0 doesn't have a place in Maverick since he's a pure vanilla beater most of the time. Goyf performs significantly better at the same cost and we don't even run that because it's vanilla and has no utility.

[AlbyLegacy]

With all the removal and combo decks out there now. Is Sylvan Safekeeper a card
to add ? VS combo he easier protects Teeg and Thalia better then mom. It can

also protect against Karakas. Thoughts?

[Koby]

With all the removal and combo decks out there now. Is Sylvan Safekeeper a card
to add ? VS combo he easier protects Teeg and Thalia better then mom. It can

also protect against Karakas. Thoughts?

Better vs Miracles with Teeg than vs ANT, but the application is the same.

[AlbyLegacy]

Better vs Miracles with Teeg than vs ANT, but the application is the same.

Would you say he deserves a spot in the main?

[diakocjay]

For dark maverick, has anyone tried including unearth on your 75?
Also, any thoughts in adding tidehallow sculler?

[ThediscoPower]

With all the removal and combo decks out there now. Is Sylvan Safekeeper a card
to add ? VS combo he easier protects Teeg and Thalia better then mom. It can

also protect against Karakas. Thoughts?

after having cut one mom for a safekeeper, i don't think I am ever going back to 4 mom - 0 safekeeper. He has saved me in too many situations, including but not limited to alpha strike knight, price of progress trump, tutorable creature protector, anti-karakas/jitte tactics. Only downside is that in the first turns he is somewhat useless (you don't really want to sacrifice lands at that point). Aside from that, he is that good, IMO.

[Barook]

after having cut one mom for a safekeeper, i don't think I am ever going back to 4 mom - 0 safekeeper. He has saved me in too many situations, including but not limited to alpha strike knight, price of progress trump, tutorable creature protector, anti-karakas/jitte tactics. Only downside is that in the first turns he is somewhat useless (you don't really want to sacrifice lands at that point). Aside from that, he is that good, IMO.
I certainly won't go below 4 Moms. I've played Safekeeper before, but he's pretty situational in my books.


For dark maverick, has anyone tried including unearth on your 75?
Also, any thoughts in adding tidehallow sculler?
Why would you run Unearth? We have no natural means to get creatures in the GY. If anything I would rather run Reanimate to steal my opponent's cheap beaters, if anything. And considering how wide-spread DRS is, even that ist questionable.

Tidehallow Sculler has a stupid mana cost for this deck. Bob can already be problematic and Sculler is even worse.

[Telkku]

If you wanna add Sylvan Safekeeper you NEVER cut Mom, you cut something else. And im with Barook on this, i tested and felt the same, its not as good as mom and we need those lands to search wastes with knight, etc. Mom + Scryb is just way too good, its the " if you dont have mass removal i won the game ".

[Fatal]

Mostly I disagree - Mom are great, so do Sylvan Safekeeper - that is sure - but playing in multiple more than 4 you going on risky path of overextended to a sweeper, and decrease real thread like KotR/SFM->Equip/GSZ.

[Telkku]

Mostly I disagree - Mom are great, so do Sylvan Safekeeper - that is sure - but playing in multiple more than 4 you going on risky path of overextended to a sweeper, and decrease real thread like KotR/SFM->Equip/GSZ.

Well i would never ever cut Mom or for that matter add sylvan safekeeper, but everyone has their style, and for me this decicion is very easy to make cause of extensive testing, and the results of it. Only good thing is that you can GSZ it but otherwise it is quite bad. Every time its on your opening hand your gonna regret that you have it in your deck. Turn 1 Mom makes the opponent use their removal, if they dont have it, situation is quite promising. If they do remove it, it means they likely dont have another for turn 2 Bob and this means again that you are in a good shape. This in not what happens with sylvan safekeeper, you.cant.sac.land.on.turn.2.period.

[AlbyLegacy]

after having cut one mom for a safekeeper, i don't think I am ever going back to 4 mom - 0 safekeeper. He has saved me in too many situations, including but not limited to alpha strike knight, price of progress trump, tutorable creature protector, anti-karakas/jitte tactics. Only downside is that in the first turns he is somewhat useless (you don't really want to sacrifice lands at that point). Aside from that, he is that good, IMO.


Sweet. I also been playing one. He was insane vs BUG, Junk,and Burn
I like him a lot.

[Koby]

Just noticed connley's list only has 3 Thalia but also 3 SFM. Seems this could easily swing towards Thalia in combo heavy metagames where having the best chance for Thalia is important. That's how I'm running my take on his list. Looking forward to jam some games soon with it too!

[ThediscoPower]

To be honest, you guys are overreacting a bit here. To be perfectly clear on this, the reason I am splitting between mom and safekeeper is because I want 4 defensive creatures, not 5, that I found somewhat overkill for me.

Now to respond to all that was written in a general way, you don't think cutting mom is right? it's normal and very understandable. However, from what I saw, it wasn't as bad as you guys make it out to be, and 90% of the time, he protects your creatures just as well, if not better. He has added bonuses (that you did a pretty good job of ignoring), but also has his drawbacks (that you did a much better job noting extensively). Now, if you tested 'extensively'' and hated it, it's ok, I am not trying to push it on you. However I will affirm that I also tested ''extensively'', and came to the conclusion that I am never playing this deck without him, and he was far from being just situational (a statement that I still can't fully comprehend, to be perfectly honnest). So far, he hasn't failed me. From there, when I did say that it he is bad in the starting turns of the game, saying that you NEVER want to sac a land on turn 2 is wrong, and I can find you situations (an actual lot of them, against many decks at that) where sac a land on turn 2 is actually legit. Now yes, it's a land that can never be used by knight (if it actually was a plains or a forest, to boot), however I simply treat that new situation as a change of plan, where I use my lands as a way to protect my board presence and force a giant beatstick on my opponnent, and that's only in the early game, mind you, because when you have enough lands, you can be wastelanding and protecting your key creatures easily.

Anyways, take it or ditch it. your choice.

[AlbyLegacy]

To be honest, you guys are overreacting a bit here. To be perfectly clear on this, the reason I am splitting between mom and safekeeper is because I want 4 defensive creatures, not 5, that I found somewhat overkill for me.

Now to respond to all that was written in a general way, you don't think cutting mom is right? it's normal and very understandable. However, from what I saw, it wasn't as bad as you guys make it out to be, and 90% of the time, he protects your creatures just as well, if not better. He has added bonuses (that you did a pretty good job of ignoring), but also has his drawbacks (that you did a much better job noting extensively). Now, if you tested 'extensively'' and hated it, it's ok, I am not trying to push it on you. However I will affirm that I also tested ''extensively'', and came to the conclusion that I am never playing this deck without him, and he was far from being just situational (a statement that I still can't fully comprehend, to be perfectly honnest). So far, he hasn't failed me. From there, when I did say that it he is bad in the starting turns of the game, saying that you NEVER want to sac a land on turn 2 is wrong, and I can find you situations (an actual lot of them, against many decks at that) where sac a land on turn 2 is actually legit. Now yes, it's a land that can never be used by knight (if it actually was a plains or a forest, to boot), however I simply treat that new situation as a change of plan, where I use my lands as a way to protect my board presence and force a giant beatstick on my opponnent, and that's only in the early game, mind you, because when you have enough lands, you can be wastelanding and protecting your key creatures easily.

Anyways, take it or ditch it. your choice.

I agree. I won games with my opponent having 6-7 cards they can't play because of him. In addition you can aggressively use mother to get in damange with a huge knights.

[Barook]

Just noticed connley's list only has 3 Thalia but also 3 SFM. Seems this could easily swing towards Thalia in combo heavy metagames where having the best chance for Thalia is important. That's how I'm running my take on his list. Looking forward to jam some games soon with it too!
If the metagame is combo-heavy (like the MODO metagame), I would rather run a second Teeg before a 4th Thalia.

Sure, sometimes he's just a bear that blocks your GSZ, but dead Thalias in your hand aren't that stellar either, but more often than not, he can completely shut down their win conditions and/or engine cards.

Do you run Thrun as well? If you do, please report back on the results because I'm interested.

[Koby]

If the metagame is combo-heavy (like the MODO metagame), I would rather run a second Teeg before a 4th Thalia.

Sure, sometimes he's just a bear that blocks your GSZ, but dead Thalias in your hand aren't that stellar either, but more often than not, he can completely shut down their win conditions and/or engine cards.

Do you run Thrun as well? If you do, please report back on the results because I'm interested.

I would strongly consider both 4th Thalia and the 2nd Teeg in that case. Thalia is simply too strong of a hate bear to chance it on the three maindeck.

Taking conley's list, I cut Thrun to the SB as the list was 61 cards. While I've been vocal about running 61 cards in the past, I don't think it makes sense in this metagame anymore. Additionally, I've always considered Maze of Ith as the 61st card. Thrun, while good vs Jund and Control, doesn't really do enough against Tempo or Blood Moon decks to warrant maindeck inclusion. We already have a planeswalker main and side to handle that situation.

BTW, I'm running Sorin, Lord of Innistrad in Elspeth's place in the maindeck. He is still a token factory, but the -2 pump ability is quite useful vs Mid-range decks as well. His ultimate is much easier to fire and just as good vs Jace too. This is a new addition that could not have been possible in the GW stock lists.

[Barook]

BTW, I'm running Sorin, Lord of Innistrad in Elspeth's place in the maindeck. He is still a token factory, but the -2 pump ability is quite useful vs Mid-range decks as well. His ultimate is much easier to fire and just as good vs Jace too. This is a new addition that could not have been possible in the GW stock lists.
Sorin sounds interesting, but I'm not sure if his -2 is better than jumping fat Knights right in the kisser.

If you run 4 Thalias/2 Teegs MD, then MD Planeswalkers become a way worse option since you're often unable to play with them.

I would also love to see a list heavy on Exalted/equipment utilizing Mirran Crusaders that actually works, but KotR is a strong contender in the 3 CC slot.

[Koby]

Sorin sounds interesting, but I'm not sure if his -2 is better than jumping fat Knights right in the kisser.


Elspeth's pump works well when you're able to keep threats on board. Sorin's pump is indisruptible; once you activate it, it sticks until the end of game. This matters when you can't get Mom active vs say, Jund, and they have removal in response to Elspeth +1 jump. Both Sorin and Elspeth are solid in that case. Sorin token's life-link is probably more useful in Mid-range too. Lastly, anti-white (Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental) do not effect Sorin tokens.

[diakocjay]

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=5562

i guess straight GW still has it. Congrats!!

[Barook]

Elspeth's pump works well when you're able to keep threats on board. Sorin's pump is indisruptible; once you activate it, it sticks until the end of game. This matters when you can't get Mom active vs say, Jund, and they have removal in response to Elspeth +1 jump. Both Sorin and Elspeth are solid in that case. Sorin token's life-link is probably more useful in Mid-range too. Lastly, anti-white (Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental) do not effect Sorin tokens.
Fair enough. Report back on the results.


http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=5562

i guess straight GW still has it. Congrats!!
Nobody said GW is bad, it's just that combo decks tend to gib you on T2 when they're on the play before you can get your hate bears online. If your meta is low on combo and/or you're lucky, then of course GW works pretty well. The black splash addresses the issue of lacking T1 disruption. The other way to adress this - playing further accel to power out T1 hatebears - seems rather impractical.

[litenkatt]

going to a tournament this sunday, will be playing dark maverick w/ confidants. I'm rusty though as I havent been playing much legacy latley. And I don't really have anyone to play with here, so basically the only preperation i've done is watchin all of sunyveils games

will make a report after

[Barook]

going to a tournament this sunday, will be playing dark maverick w/ confidants. I'm rusty though as I havent been playing much legacy latley. And I don't really have anyone to play with here, so basically the only preperation i've done is watchin all of sunyveils games

will make a report after
Why don't you throw the deck together on Cockatrice and play some games? Even with all the idiots online - some practice is better than no practice.

[litenkatt]

Why don't you throw the deck together on Cockatrice and play some games? Even with all the idiots online - some practice is better than no practice.

Dont know how to use cockatrice really... but could maybe try later

[ThediscoPower]

Dont know how to use cockatrice really... but could maybe try later

You could try to play with forge. The IA isn't the best, but at least the rules are well implemented so you can play without too much trouble

[s6sculve]

What do you guys think of Captain Sisay?

Captain Sisay 2WG
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier
Tap: Search your library for a legendary card, reveal that card, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
2/2

Captain Sisay can tutor up Umezawa's Jitte, Karakas, Gaea's Cradle, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Gaddock Teeg, Linvala Keeper of Silence, Thrun the Last Troll, Sigarda Host of Herons, ect. Seems really good in grindy matches against decks like BUG and Deathblade. dodges Abrupt Decay which is nice.

[Tao]

Thought of him today, too, after reading about Moggcatcher in Dragon Stompy, but didn't really consider. But I think you are right. He sounds pretty good to me.

[s6sculve]

Thought of him today, too, after reading about Moggcatcher in Dragon Stompy, but didn't really consider. But I think you are right. He sounds pretty good to me.

Yeah, I mean she's straight tap for repeatable card advantage, something we normally don't have.

[Tao]

Of course, she. The no activation cost part is nice, like a GSZable Planeswalker after one untap. KotR is similar in that way but he doesn't actually draw cards and Sigarda, Jitte, Karakas and Teeg are more impactful cards than lands. So that could be a good reason why you would GSZ for her. She is worth testing imo.

[Barook]

Captain Sisay? Really? :eyebrow: Spells at 4 mana should win the game. A 2/2 that needs to wait an entire turn to do anything? It's a fun as hell card in EDH, but I'm sceptical for Legacy.

That said, it could have some merit. Scryb Ranger shenanigans lead to insane card advantage and Sisay can fetch both parts of the Mangara/Karakas combo. Consistency could be threatened with too many 1-ofs, though.

Looking for useful Legends made me rediscover one of my favorite cards: Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

GSZ-able and has potential to set up massive shenanigans on T3, be it swinging with an equipped T1 drop, GSZ for 5 fetching Sigarda, dropping a Batterskull without SFM, powering up Ooze or just vomiting out your hand if necessary. Again, pretty hilarious combo with Scryb Ranger.

Might be cool.

[Koby]

Capt Sisay is a boss-lady. She's pretty good in a slower metagame when also combined with Sigarda Host of HAHAHAHAH-your-removal-is-worthless and Linvala Keeping-you-null. Hell of a card to have when Show & Tell resolves vs Sneak Show :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFml_J5CEAEJ56U.jpg:large

[ThediscoPower]

that's one hell of a sexy deck tho. Is that the foil Sisay deck I hear so much about? Or is that yours (I know you yourself have one hell of a nice deck too)

[Barook]

That board state looks awesome. I bet the S&T player was not amused.

Has anybody a Sisay list available?

[Tao]

I'd say start with a standard list that plays Jitte, Scryb Ranger, Karakas and maybe Cradle. Then add Sisay, Linvala and Sigarda in the flex slots where people play Library or Elspeth and see how it performs.

[litenkatt]

ok just got home from a rather small tournament, we were 16 players in total, 4 rounds and then a top8. Quick report:

R1 Elves
Lost terribly. G1 I kept a hand with Swords and abrupt decay some lands and something else. Was not enough. G2 I boarded in more decays, some discard, tutor and canonist. Got canonist and teeg out rather early but he killed them with abrupt decays and I didnt have a mom to protect.
R2 Elves
Lost terribly. G1 I got a teeg out early and the game went on for like 40mins. Eventually my life went really low cus of Bobs and sylvan library. And I couldn't really do any damage on him becuase I had no mom(he kills me with deathrite activations. Didnt have any of my own. Sucks that teeg shuts off my gsz too!). G2 I couldnt find any of my hate after a mull to 5 and he kills me with a progenitus turn 5
R3 High Tide
He fails with this combo G1 and I eventually kill him with Knights. 100% lucky, he had high tides going on and on time spiral he drew 5-6 lands... -_-. G2 I mull to 5 to find any of my hate that I have plenty of. Cant find anyhing and lose turn 5. G3 I mull to 5 and find a Thalia which he forces and I dont find anything else and he eventually wins.
R4 Homebrew Vampire-Painter.dec. Lol
G1 he plays Vampire Lacerator x2 and is stuck on 1 Swamp all game. G2 He gets manaflooded and I win.

So.. 1-3 in total. Can't say I'm very happy about this. Elves is a really tough matchup and feels like I need Jitte to win. High tide should be a rather good matchup with 3 thalias MD and more hate SB.

I had fun though, and gonna keep playing this deck!

[Telkku]

ok just got home from a rather small tournament, we were 16 players in total, 4 rounds and then a top8. Quick report:

R1 Elves
Lost terribly. G1 I kept a hand with Swords and abrupt decay some lands and something else. Was not enough. G2 I boarded in more decays, some discard, tutor and canonist. Got canonist and teeg out rather early but he killed them with abrupt decays and I didnt have a mom to protect.
R2 Elves
Lost terribly. G1 I got a teeg out early and the game went on for like 40mins. Eventually my life went really low cus of Bobs and sylvan library. And I couldn't really do any damage on him becuase I had no mom(he kills me with deathrite activations. Didnt have any of my own. Sucks that teeg shuts off my gsz too!). G2 I couldnt find any of my hate after a mull to 5 and he kills me with a progenitus turn 5
R3 High Tide
He fails with this combo G1 and I eventually kill him with Knights. 100% lucky, he had high tides going on and on time spiral he drew 5-6 lands... -_-. G2 I mull to 5 to find any of my hate that I have plenty of. Cant find anyhing and lose turn 5. G3 I mull to 5 and find a Thalia which he forces and I dont find anything else and he eventually wins.
R4 Homebrew Vampire-Painter.dec. Lol
G1 he plays Vampire Lacerator x2 and is stuck on 1 Swamp all game. G2 He gets manaflooded and I win.

So.. 1-3 in total. Can't say I'm very happy about this. Elves is a really tough matchup and feels like I need Jitte to win. High tide should be a rather good matchup with 3 thalias MD and more hate SB.

I had fun though, and gonna keep playing this deck!


Begs the question. How many Jittes and Stoneforges in the deck? This is ones of the reasons 2 x Jitte is performing so well for me. Elves have been quite good matchup for me. ( of course 3 x decay MD helps alot too with 4 x stop. )

[Barook]

A Dark Maverick reached the second seed for Top 8 in the current SCG:

Decklist (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=58933)

Notable cards: Stage/Depths combo and Chains of Mephistopheles in the sideboard.

[litenkatt]

Begs the question. How many Jittes and Stoneforges in the deck? This is ones of the reasons 2 x Jitte is performing so well for me. Elves have been quite good matchup for me. ( of course 3 x decay MD helps alot too with 4 x stop. )

Was playing the list you posted with +1 Karakas MD -1 cradle

[longshot0086]

A Dark Maverick reached the second seed for Top 8 in the current SCG:

Decklist (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=58933)

Notable cards: Stage/Depths combo and Chains of Mephistopheles in the sideboard.

Hi, new to the forum, my name is Jacob Lindy, and I just top eight the scg philly. If I had planned on writing a tournament report I would have taken better notes, but I'm writing now while it is fresh. A couple things to note about deck choices. I have traditionally been a junk player, and I started playing junk to be the most powerful fair deck to chomp other fair decks. Recently, I have not been able to keep up with the card advantage of bug and stoneblade, and decided to go with MoM protection and switch over to maverick. So I went with the black splash, and was very happy with it. Dark confidant was very useful, and he helped close games out and rebuild my hand after I dumped my hand. With my sideboard, I built it mostly with my experience in junk. There were two important considerations I needed as a base, against removal light combo decks that could win fast I would need to remove 8, moms and stoneforge package. Aven mindcensors could go in and keep my threat density high. Chains of Mephistopholes is a fun one of that is pretty one sided and provides great attrition against blue decks, elves, and others.

Round 1: Nic Fit
My round 1 opponent was a jund nic fit deck. Game 1 I get out umezawa's jitte and a couple hate bears. Veteran Explorer dies and he brings out thragtusk. He blocks and I am able to kill it with jitte. Next turn he plays prime time and I can again kill it. I finally swing lethal, my board consists of bob, 2 moms, thalia, and knight.
Game 2, he is on the play veteran explorer I swords. He then plays a second, I follow up with deathrite and heirarch. He is unable to sacrifice and I attack into it, flashing in mindcensor with trigger on the stack. Searching for two lands while my opponent finds none felt kind of evil, but I was happy to do it. He ended the game without drawing a swamp with 2 deed's stuck in hand.
2-0
Round 2: Esper Stoneblade
Game 1, I play mom and he plays removal. He then plays lingering souls, so I zenith for ooze and eat souls in yard. A bit more removal and I then follow up with mom and knight. I am about to assemble the combo, he plays jace but is unable to find Swords so takes 20.
Game 2, I sideboarded in Bog, and zealous persecution and surgical extraction, taking out one wasteland, and qasali pridemade and 1 heirarch. I figured his deck has a lot of basics, and so wasteland would not be as useful. I end up drawing the remaining 3 that game and end up wasting turn 1, 3 and 4. Nothing sticks on either side, he plays stoneforge 3 times, but never gets a chance to hit. I play combo and he swords it. With 34 life, I get out Thalia and then 2 dark confidants. once he gets to the chance to attack with feast and famine, I allow it, saccing canopy to draw a card which I discard (leaving me with zealous persecution). Main phase 2, he plays his own dark confidant at 6. Tapped out with thalia on the board I just persecution and swing for nine. He did not know what my deck was, and did not sideboard correctly, he left supreme verdict out.
2-0
Round 3: Goblins
Game 1, I have a hand of mom thalia and batterskull. He has turn 1 lackey. I offer trade. I ultimately draw all 3 thalias and no action, he slowly builds up a board to win.
Game 2, I brought in elspeth, maze, and zealous persecutions and aven mindcensors, taking out the combo and teeg and I think qasali pridemages. He has a board with lots of goblins including piledrivers sparksmith and sharpshooter. I have 2 knights, and when he goes to swing for 100 I zealous persecution. He knocks me down to 5 and bolts twice, I swords my own knight up to 15 life. I have very few outs for his lethal swing next turn and he has vial on five with siege gang in hand. I topdeck elspeth and fly over for lethal.
Game 3, thalia and mom provide some protection. He swings multiple times getting in for a couple damage while losing a guy each turn to thalia while doing so. I sided the combo back in, and was able to swing for 20.
3-0
Round 4; Tin Fin
Game 1, I see its combo right away and decide to build against a possible show and tell. Once he shallow graves he wins game 1 without me being able to do much. Game 2, I keep a hand with chains but he goes off on turn 1. Its a fun deck to watch, but when they draw 28 cards with griselbrand on turn 1, well not much I can do. If he did not go off turn 1, and he was on a mulligan, then I win that game, (probably still lose game 3, but oh well).
3-1
Round 5: Shardless Bug
Game 1, we trade resources and he has a number of guys out. I ignore his card drawing because I get out mom and thalia and knight. I start to assemble the combo, he kills mom, I give knight pro green in response. He then plays sower of temptation, I get combo in response. He is tapped out so I untap, swords and swing lethal. Thalia is an allstar against this deck. He drew six extra cards and hymned me, but was unable to actually do anything relevant.
Game 2, I don't remember what happened, but I lost according to my life totals.
Game 3, I beat him down with 2 knights and his goyfs cant do anything to stop it.
4-1
Round 6: Shardless Bug
Game 1, I assemble the combo, he is unfamiliar with it, and takes 20 damage.
Game 2, I build a board presense with thalia and jitte, but he demolishes me with pernicious deed. I really did not see it coming. I recover with knight and assemble the combo.
The only play of note this match is when he play's lili and ticks down to kill my knight, I fetch for dryad arbor and sac to lili. He has an untapped wasteland but allows the lili to resolve.
5-1
Round 7: Show and Tell
Game 1, I play deathrite shaman and pass. He fetches for basic island and plays ponder. With this line of play I correctly assume he is on show and tell, it could have been a couple other decks, but without fetching for a duel land here, I have to assume combo. I untap and green sun zenith for teeg. This stranded another GSZ in my hand, but it turns off a turn 2 loss. I then get out two knights. I have potential lethal in two turn but he cunning wishes for wipe away. If I attack with both knights, its not lethal, but if I attack with one, he can get the other, making it a three turn clock. So instead I pass, he plays a land and passes. I play thalia, he then cunning wishes for slaughter pact but is tapped out. I do the math and swing for lethal, he cant pact and pay next turn.
Game 2, I side out my moms and stoneforge package again. I get teeg out, and then cleverly cast mindcensor to stifle his fetch trigger, and he grabs land anyway. I thoughtseize and he then brainstorms, revealing Brainstorm, brainstorm, city, island, fetch, and enter the infinite. While he cannot cast enter the infinite, I have to assume that he will be able to show and tell omniscience out with cunning wish back up. So I decide to play it safe and take enter the infinite. He does as I feared, but it leaves me with a relevant board and qasali pridemage. I kill his omniscience, and cunning wish is unable to do anything relevant under teeg. He grabs intuition, and I give him force which he cannot play. I won that game. As a note, I had the ideal situation for aven mindcensor there but it did nothing relevant, it was a 2/1 and he said so as well. The intuition I stopped was only because he didnt have a permanent answer for teeg. So overall I think I should remove the mind censors and put in lingering souls or possibly something else.
I love playing this match up.
6-1
Round 8: Punishing Jund
There is a bit of a language barrier here. I am able to waste away his groves, and keep him off punishing fire the whole match. In game 1, thalia and deathrite did work, and then knight and bob joined them. He was at 3 life with a tapped deathrite shaman, I pass, and on his endstep, attempt to exile a spell which he then exiles in response. I have 4 creatures he has 3. I untap and exile a second spell knocking him to 1 and swinging for lethal. He would have stabilized but was too little too slow.
Game 2, I keep a hand with waste, fetch, canopy, swords, life from the loam, and knight. He plays turn 1 deathrite, I swords it. I waste, and then life from the loam 2 lands back into my hand. He gets another deathrite out, and I decide not to dredge. I play knight, taking a damage with canopy. He plays lili, makes me sac and then wastes my canopy. I untap play bob and waste and pass. He ticks up, I discard batterskull, he discards ancient grudge. I untap, play pridemage, swing into lili he blocks and loses his guy. I then play fetch (revealed from bob). He then argues I played a land this turn I argue otherwise, after ten minutes of discussing with the judge they rule in my favor. At that point I realize the shaman he blocked with is still on the board and I have way too much of a headache to argue it or demand to see graveyard, it doesnt matter so I say nothing. His turn he kills bob with engineered plague and then minus lili. Since pridemage is all i have left I happily sac it to kill sylvan library (over the plague) in stead of playing the sprite from my hand (the reason why I needed the extra land.) I draw knight, next turn swing, realize its only 4 damage and so I start building him up with fetching and also building my board. After a couple turns he angrilly scoops and says why wasn't I attacking earlier why build up in stead. I told him it was to keep fetch open for bojuka bog and to prevent me from dying to wasteland, he mentioned he has no hand (which I thought had 3 cards, I know it had life from the loam).
7-1
Round 9: RUG Delver
I am in ninth place so have to play.
Game 1 I lead with mom. He then casts gitaxian probe, I cringe as I expect to lose to storm or TES or something. But then he bolts mom so grixis or rug. I cast a second mom and a shaman. His turn he gets goyf, so rug, and I silently cheer (I am not a pro, I don't do as much testing as I probably should, but my brother plays rug so I can say I know this match up as well as anyone alive). I get out scryb sprite, and two noble heirarchs. With exalted triggers I am able to deal 3 damage a turn, block his goyf and return arbor elf, and using deathrite multiple times each turn. He is finally able to bolt mom, and stifle mom trigger, and then bolt sprite. He is at 6 with goyf and 1/1 mongoose, staring down a 5/5 scavenging ooze. Writing on the wall, game 2.
Game 2 I have 2 moms thalia and bob to his goyfs. I figure things are going well until he drops sulfer elemental and promptly eats my face.
Game 3 he was unable to get any damage in against me. Mom and thalia provided protection and then I get knights. When he is tapped out I play bojuka bog shrinking his team, and he scoops.
For sideboarding this match I did not do much, I sided out stoneforge package. Its a lot of mana to work through stifles and wastelands, and brought in chains and life from the loam. I may have just sided out batterskull of the package.
Top Eight Sneak and Show
I played against Brian, and knew he was playing sneak and show.
Game 1, I get out karakas and thalia and knight but it was not enough. He hits me griselbrand (through sneak attack) then draws 7. At this point I have to assume he has emrakul. the next turn I try to empty my hand to leave me karakas after the annihilator trigger. If I karakas before attackers are declared he sacs lotus petal and does it again. I lose all my stuff, fishing for a top deck qasali pridemage to deal with sneak attack. I missed and went on to game 2.
Game 2, I understand this was talked about a bit. I keep a hand with swords, knight, stage, savannah, dark depths, green sun zenith, and one other card. I lead off with gsz for arbor elf. My game plan for this game was to not grab teeg because snow and tell goes under it. Turn 2 I dropped stage, and passed, leaving mana untapped hoping he would ramp to show and tell. He ramps, but smells something fishy and passes. I play dark depths and pass. Brian plays a land and passes, I endstep combo. I play thalia to try and see whats up, he forces. I then swing 20. At that point I no longer have white mana, which was a mistake for my knowledge, but overall right, he had misdirection in his hand. He Intothe breaches griselbrand, blocks and draws 7. His next turn is able to sneak attack and attack with an emrakul making me sac everything. I still have land and swords in hand, but he had the second emrakul. Props to BBD for a great match and I would have liked to have seen him win it all.

Overall, and my summation will be short because I am tired and took way too much time already...I was unhappy with batterskull and aven mindcensor. Surgical extraction only came in once or twice, but I feel it is necessary, perhaps duress/inquisition would be better. Chains came in a few times but I never got it on the field, in the past it has been a hoser (more so with lili). Bojuka bog I was happy with, and it shrunk many a goyf. Maze of ith was only really useful a couple times, but it was an allstar in the games I needed it. I really like the versatility, and really like the dark depths combo. I don't think I am forcing it or dedicating too much space, there were also times when I was able to copy horizon canopy and wasteland with stage. The couple times I drew dark depths, just incentive me to play to the combo and knight out the second piece. I would definitely play the combo again. Let me know what you guys think, I was back up two rounds in stream, but I don't believe I made the camera.
With the two matches I lost, if its turn 1 we can't really do much about it, that's the cost of being the good guys. Against sneak and show...I got nothing. I am I think 0 and 3 playing against this match up with a combined junk/maverick in tournaments, and testing feels like pulling teeth. Let me know what you think, how do we win against this dread... Sigarda? Humility? Oblivion Ring (which doesn't)? Lingering Souls?
Well it was first major top 8 for me, I was happy with it, and will probably stick with maverick. Glad to bring it back to the forefront, and I hope for a win for the next guy.

Way too long for my first post...good night.

[Barook]

@longshot0086: Thanks for the report!

I assume the 1 Heath is a budget choice/whatever because with your current land configuration, it seems rather suboptimal to not run 4 Heats.

What would you run instead of Batterskull? A second Jitte? Or Sword of Feast and Famine?

As far as S&T is concerned, a proper sideboard goes a long way to fight them. KotR/Karakas help to handle random S&T fat, so the card you absolutely have to stop is Sneak Attack which is the main way they can win against you. Teeg can only go that far (I've seen S&T for Sneak Attack under Teeg before), so a Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker in an E-Tutor package (with O-Ring for more anti-S&T hate) is absolutely crucial here.

E-Tutor into Chains sounds pretty cool as well in various match-ups.

[Linqed]

I'm thinking of putting together Maverick, but there's so many different lists it's hard to find the best one. I've put together the following list I like:

4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith

2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Thoughtseize
1 Disfigure
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring

I'm not too sure on the planeswalkers, but they seem alright. They help pressure other Planeswalkers and provide a constant stream of creatures. Least sure of playing Elspeth, K-E. I see lists leaning heavier on black, but I'd prefer to keep it as GW as possible. The sideboard might need some work, but hoping you guys can help me out.

[Barook]

The MD looks solid, but be prepared to have trouble casting your PW when you run MD Thalia along with Teeg.

The SB would look alot better if you ran 2 E-Tutors to make those random 1-ofs tutorable.

[Linqed]

What would you suggest I cut, I like the idea of 2 ET's.

[Barook]

Grip seems random and O-Ring can often do the same job. For Counterbalance, you still have your ADs.

The second card to cut is harder, although I'm leaning towards Disfigure, although that really depends on the meta. Thalia or the second Teeg might be other choices (although I like having a back-up Teeg).

[oSeabass]

Looking for useful Legends made me rediscover one of my favorite cards: Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

Looking through all my old stuff this weekend, found a nice NM Foil Rofellos I had traded for as a kid (cus I loved Legends and Legendary stuff). Figured I'd check the price on it.... $100!!!

Felt real good, seeing as how childhood me only was able to acquire a Windswepth Heath, this, and two complete BFMs.

[Fatal]

@longshot - Thank you for your report, I was wondering about colored land count,

Your decklist contain 23 lands including sorted by mana generation by turn 1:

-1 Dryad Arbor (obv for all Mav)
-4 Wastelands (obv)
-1 Dark Depths (combo element)
-1 Thespian's Stage (second element)

-1 Karakas (obv)

-1 Horizon Canopy

- 7 fetchlands
- 5 duals
- 2 basics

This mean that having change to cast turn 1:

- Mom/stp you had 13 lands which gives white
-GSZ=0, Mana dork you had 14 lands which gives green

How many times did you faced mana problems while testing/playing, I see here issue specially vs decks which also runs 4 sets of wasteland/1 mana removal (basically Tempo decks :) )

[AlbyLegacy]

Hi, new to the forum, my name is Jacob Lindy, and I just top eight the scg philly. If I had planned on writing a tournament report I would have taken better notes, but I'm writing now while it is fresh. A couple things to note about deck choices. I have traditionally been a junk player, and I started playing junk to be the most powerful fair deck to chomp other fair decks. Recently, I have not been able to keep up with the card advantage of bug and stoneblade, and decided to go with MoM protection and switch over to maverick. So I went with the black splash, and was very happy with it. Dark confidant was very useful, and he helped close games out and rebuild my hand after I dumped my hand. With my sideboard, I built it mostly with my experience in junk. There were two important considerations I needed as a base, against removal light combo decks that could win fast I would need to remove 8, moms and stoneforge package. Aven mindcensors could go in and keep my threat density high. Chains of Mephistopholes is a fun one of that is pretty one sided and provides great attrition against blue decks, elves, and others.

Round 1: Nic Fit
My round 1 opponent was a jund nic fit deck. Game 1 I get out umezawa's jitte and a couple hate bears. Veteran Explorer dies and he brings out thragtusk. He blocks and I am able to kill it with jitte. Next turn he plays prime time and I can again kill it. I finally swing lethal, my board consists of bob, 2 moms, thalia, and knight.
Game 2, he is on the play veteran explorer I swords. He then plays a second, I follow up with deathrite and heirarch. He is unable to sacrifice and I attack into it, flashing in mindcensor with trigger on the stack. Searching for two lands while my opponent finds none felt kind of evil, but I was happy to do it. He ended the game without drawing a swamp with 2 deed's stuck in hand.
2-0
Round 2: Esper Stoneblade
Game 1, I play mom and he plays removal. He then plays lingering souls, so I zenith for ooze and eat souls in yard. A bit more removal and I then follow up with mom and knight. I am about to assemble the combo, he plays jace but is unable to find Swords so takes 20.
Game 2, I sideboarded in Bog, and zealous persecution and surgical extraction, taking out one wasteland, and qasali pridemade and 1 heirarch. I figured his deck has a lot of basics, and so wasteland would not be as useful. I end up drawing the remaining 3 that game and end up wasting turn 1, 3 and 4. Nothing sticks on either side, he plays stoneforge 3 times, but never gets a chance to hit. I play combo and he swords it. With 34 life, I get out Thalia and then 2 dark confidants. once he gets to the chance to attack with feast and famine, I allow it, saccing canopy to draw a card which I discard (leaving me with zealous persecution). Main phase 2, he plays his own dark confidant at 6. Tapped out with thalia on the board I just persecution and swing for nine. He did not know what my deck was, and did not sideboard correctly, he left supreme verdict out.
2-0
Round 3: Goblins
Game 1, I have a hand of mom thalia and batterskull. He has turn 1 lackey. I offer trade. I ultimately draw all 3 thalias and no action, he slowly builds up a board to win.
Game 2, I brought in elspeth, maze, and zealous persecutions and aven mindcensors, taking out the combo and teeg and I think qasali pridemages. He has a board with lots of goblins including piledrivers sparksmith and sharpshooter. I have 2 knights, and when he goes to swing for 100 I zealous persecution. He knocks me down to 5 and bolts twice, I swords my own knight up to 15 life. I have very few outs for his lethal swing next turn and he has vial on five with siege gang in hand. I topdeck elspeth and fly over for lethal.
Game 3, thalia and mom provide some protection. He swings multiple times getting in for a couple damage while losing a guy each turn to thalia while doing so. I sided the combo back in, and was able to swing for 20.
3-0
Round 4; Tin Fin
Game 1, I see its combo right away and decide to build against a possible show and tell. Once he shallow graves he wins game 1 without me being able to do much. Game 2, I keep a hand with chains but he goes off on turn 1. Its a fun deck to watch, but when they draw 28 cards with griselbrand on turn 1, well not much I can do. If he did not go off turn 1, and he was on a mulligan, then I win that game, (probably still lose game 3, but oh well).
3-1
Round 5: Shardless Bug
Game 1, we trade resources and he has a number of guys out. I ignore his card drawing because I get out mom and thalia and knight. I start to assemble the combo, he kills mom, I give knight pro green in response. He then plays sower of temptation, I get combo in response. He is tapped out so I untap, swords and swing lethal. Thalia is an allstar against this deck. He drew six extra cards and hymned me, but was unable to actually do anything relevant.
Game 2, I don't remember what happened, but I lost according to my life totals.
Game 3, I beat him down with 2 knights and his goyfs cant do anything to stop it.
4-1
Round 6: Shardless Bug
Game 1, I assemble the combo, he is unfamiliar with it, and takes 20 damage.
Game 2, I build a board presense with thalia and jitte, but he demolishes me with pernicious deed. I really did not see it coming. I recover with knight and assemble the combo.
The only play of note this match is when he play's lili and ticks down to kill my knight, I fetch for dryad arbor and sac to lili. He has an untapped wasteland but allows the lili to resolve.
5-1
Round 7: Show and Tell
Game 1, I play deathrite shaman and pass. He fetches for basic island and plays ponder. With this line of play I correctly assume he is on show and tell, it could have been a couple other decks, but without fetching for a duel land here, I have to assume combo. I untap and green sun zenith for teeg. This stranded another GSZ in my hand, but it turns off a turn 2 loss. I then get out two knights. I have potential lethal in two turn but he cunning wishes for wipe away. If I attack with both knights, its not lethal, but if I attack with one, he can get the other, making it a three turn clock. So instead I pass, he plays a land and passes. I play thalia, he then cunning wishes for slaughter pact but is tapped out. I do the math and swing for lethal, he cant pact and pay next turn.
Game 2, I side out my moms and stoneforge package again. I get teeg out, and then cleverly cast mindcensor to stifle his fetch trigger, and he grabs land anyway. I thoughtseize and he then brainstorms, revealing Brainstorm, brainstorm, city, island, fetch, and enter the infinite. While he cannot cast enter the infinite, I have to assume that he will be able to show and tell omniscience out with cunning wish back up. So I decide to play it safe and take enter the infinite. He does as I feared, but it leaves me with a relevant board and qasali pridemage. I kill his omniscience, and cunning wish is unable to do anything relevant under teeg. He grabs intuition, and I give him force which he cannot play. I won that game. As a note, I had the ideal situation for aven mindcensor there but it did nothing relevant, it was a 2/1 and he said so as well. The intuition I stopped was only because he didnt have a permanent answer for teeg. So overall I think I should remove the mind censors and put in lingering souls or possibly something else.
I love playing this match up.
6-1
Round 8: Punishing Jund
There is a bit of a language barrier here. I am able to waste away his groves, and keep him off punishing fire the whole match. In game 1, thalia and deathrite did work, and then knight and bob joined them. He was at 3 life with a tapped deathrite shaman, I pass, and on his endstep, attempt to exile a spell which he then exiles in response. I have 4 creatures he has 3. I untap and exile a second spell knocking him to 1 and swinging for lethal. He would have stabilized but was too little too slow.
Game 2, I keep a hand with waste, fetch, canopy, swords, life from the loam, and knight. He plays turn 1 deathrite, I swords it. I waste, and then life from the loam 2 lands back into my hand. He gets another deathrite out, and I decide not to dredge. I play knight, taking a damage with canopy. He plays lili, makes me sac and then wastes my canopy. I untap play bob and waste and pass. He ticks up, I discard batterskull, he discards ancient grudge. I untap, play pridemage, swing into lili he blocks and loses his guy. I then play fetch (revealed from bob). He then argues I played a land this turn I argue otherwise, after ten minutes of discussing with the judge they rule in my favor. At that point I realize the shaman he blocked with is still on the board and I have way too much of a headache to argue it or demand to see graveyard, it doesnt matter so I say nothing. His turn he kills bob with engineered plague and then minus lili. Since pridemage is all i have left I happily sac it to kill sylvan library (over the plague) in stead of playing the sprite from my hand (the reason why I needed the extra land.) I draw knight, next turn swing, realize its only 4 damage and so I start building him up with fetching and also building my board. After a couple turns he angrilly scoops and says why wasn't I attacking earlier why build up in stead. I told him it was to keep fetch open for bojuka bog and to prevent me from dying to wasteland, he mentioned he has no hand (which I thought had 3 cards, I know it had life from the loam).
7-1
Round 9: RUG Delver
I am in ninth place so have to play.
Game 1 I lead with mom. He then casts gitaxian probe, I cringe as I expect to lose to storm or TES or something. But then he bolts mom so grixis or rug. I cast a second mom and a shaman. His turn he gets goyf, so rug, and I silently cheer (I am not a pro, I don't do as much testing as I probably should, but my brother plays rug so I can say I know this match up as well as anyone alive). I get out scryb sprite, and two noble heirarchs. With exalted triggers I am able to deal 3 damage a turn, block his goyf and return arbor elf, and using deathrite multiple times each turn. He is finally able to bolt mom, and stifle mom trigger, and then bolt sprite. He is at 6 with goyf and 1/1 mongoose, staring down a 5/5 scavenging ooze. Writing on the wall, game 2.
Game 2 I have 2 moms thalia and bob to his goyfs. I figure things are going well until he drops sulfer elemental and promptly eats my face.
Game 3 he was unable to get any damage in against me. Mom and thalia provided protection and then I get knights. When he is tapped out I play bojuka bog shrinking his team, and he scoops.
For sideboarding this match I did not do much, I sided out stoneforge package. Its a lot of mana to work through stifles and wastelands, and brought in chains and life from the loam. I may have just sided out batterskull of the package.
Top Eight Sneak and Show
I played against Brian, and knew he was playing sneak and show.
Game 1, I get out karakas and thalia and knight but it was not enough. He hits me griselbrand (through sneak attack) then draws 7. At this point I have to assume he has emrakul. the next turn I try to empty my hand to leave me karakas after the annihilator trigger. If I karakas before attackers are declared he sacs lotus petal and does it again. I lose all my stuff, fishing for a top deck qasali pridemage to deal with sneak attack. I missed and went on to game 2.
Game 2, I understand this was talked about a bit. I keep a hand with swords, knight, stage, savannah, dark depths, green sun zenith, and one other card. I lead off with gsz for arbor elf. My game plan for this game was to not grab teeg because snow and tell goes under it. Turn 2 I dropped stage, and passed, leaving mana untapped hoping he would ramp to show and tell. He ramps, but smells something fishy and passes. I play dark depths and pass. Brian plays a land and passes, I endstep combo. I play thalia to try and see whats up, he forces. I then swing 20. At that point I no longer have white mana, which was a mistake for my knowledge, but overall right, he had misdirection in his hand. He Intothe breaches griselbrand, blocks and draws 7. His next turn is able to sneak attack and attack with an emrakul making me sac everything. I still have land and swords in hand, but he had the second emrakul. Props to BBD for a great match and I would have liked to have seen him win it all.

Overall, and my summation will be short because I am tired and took way too much time already...I was unhappy with batterskull and aven mindcensor. Surgical extraction only came in once or twice, but I feel it is necessary, perhaps duress/inquisition would be better. Chains came in a few times but I never got it on the field, in the past it has been a hoser (more so with lili). Bojuka bog I was happy with, and it shrunk many a goyf. Maze of ith was only really useful a couple times, but it was an allstar in the games I needed it. I really like the versatility, and really like the dark depths combo. I don't think I am forcing it or dedicating too much space, there were also times when I was able to copy horizon canopy and wasteland with stage. The couple times I drew dark depths, just incentive me to play to the combo and knight out the second piece. I would definitely play the combo again. Let me know what you guys think, I was back up two rounds in stream, but I don't believe I made the camera.
With the two matches I lost, if its turn 1 we can't really do much about it, that's the cost of being the good guys. Against sneak and show...I got nothing. I am I think 0 and 3 playing against this match up with a combined junk/maverick in tournaments, and testing feels like pulling teeth. Let me know what you think, how do we win against this dread... Sigarda? Humility? Oblivion Ring (which doesn't)? Lingering Souls?
Well it was first major top 8 for me, I was happy with it, and will probably stick with maverick. Glad to bring it back to the forefront, and I hope for a win for the next guy.

Way too long for my first post...good night.

Good stuff man. Thanks for the update

[AlbyLegacy]

Any thoughts on the new set? Any cards that might impact Maverick?

[blindspotxxx]

Nice report dude! That tech card was awesome!

[diakocjay]

Question about the dark depths combo.... will it have summoning sickness once you activate thespians stage? Sorry noob question.

[Nihilis]

Question about the dark depths combo.... will it have summoning sickness once you activate thespians stage? Sorry noob question.

Yes. The token is a new creature that is put into play, so it will be affected by summoning sickness.

On a side note, I'm glad there are other people doing well with the combo. I've found it to be quite solid in testing, yet the discussion around it seems to have pretty much died after the rule change.

[Justin]

Question about the dark depths combo.... will it have summoning sickness once you activate thespians stage? Sorry noob question.

Yes, it has summoning sickness, but if you fetch the combo with Knight of the Reliquary, you can do it at the end of your opponent's turn and then be able to bash with Marit Lage. This can make it a little more difficult for your opponent to deal with it.

[longshot0086]

The combo is essentially an endstep combo. So it should only be vulnerable to swords to plowshares, wasteland, and stifle (and apparently through the breach). I try to avoid using it when there are available blockers, but flying is very relevant evasion for that. If they are able to block, you expose yourself to jace. I try to always search thespian stage first, and if I have the extra mana at endstep, consider using the ability, having a stage canopy/wasteland doesn't hurt.
@fatal
I mulliganned I believe three times, and I know I won two of the games. I did not have any mana issues, but only played against one stifle deck. Stifle can be played around, and if they are not putting pressure on the board in the first couple turns then you are increasingly likely to win each turn as your threats become bigger, and once knight is around, they are more vulnerable to wasteland (I did not in round nine, but in testing I have brought in surgical for the express purpose of hitting a wasted duel land and take them off red or green).
I was never unhappy with verdant, but would prefer heath to marsh flats, I want each fetch to be able to hit forest, plains is not as important. If you expect a lot of blood moon, then it might be.
On the play if I had a one lander with at least 2 mana dorks or one dork and one gsz I would keep. Heavy land hands I was also able to keep because of the strength of knight. I was very aggressive in getting the dryad arbor with green sun zenith, and I was not punished with removal.
@barook
I will test with feast and famine, and if not satisfied then 2 jittes.
I will probably test a e tutor sb package. The difficulty with the combo is it is in essence a two card combo that is resilient against removal and against hand disruption. It uses legends but karakas doesn't actually beat it. It uses a 4 drop but teeg doesnt stop it. I think the best answer against it is humility, so e tutor is probably the right call. Peacekeeper may be another option to consider.

[Barook]

@barook
I will test with feast and famine, and if not satisfied then 2 jittes.
I will probably test a e tutor sb package. The difficulty with the combo is it is in essence a two card combo that is resilient against removal and against hand disruption. It uses legends but karakas doesn't actually beat it. It uses a 4 drop but teeg doesnt stop it. I think the best answer against it is humility, so e tutor is probably the right call. Peacekeeper may be another option to consider.
Humility could work and it seems pretty sweet with equipment. Maverick runs lots of creatures.

Peacekeeper dies to Pyroclasm, thus it requires a Mom to protect.

[blackdiamonds]

Anybody have a list with vials? Like the one that top 8ed the BOM?

[Barook]

I've seen some people running 2x Lingering Souls MD. That seems pretty sweet against Miracles and Planeswalkers - stuff Maverick struggles against. But how does it play along Thalia? Discodude ran that single Sorin, too, which looks like an another outlet against PWs.

[slikwilly]

Anybody have a list with vials? Like the one that top 8ed the BOM?

I've been running the BOM list -1 Ranger, +1 Sylvan Library. My board is different, basically just your standard e-tutor board, nothing fancy.

The deck is super grindy, but lots of fun if that's your thing.

[diakocjay]

How would you think the new card in theros affect our beloved maverick?


http://www.cardkingdom.com/catalog/item/191315

[Telkku]

How would you think the new card in theros affect our beloved maverick?


http://www.cardkingdom.com/catalog/item/191315

Theres allready Slagstorm that does the same and no one plays it. Theres pyroclasm and massacre that are better. No effect.

[litenkatt]

Jeez what a big mistake sunyveil did against elves by tapping both his mums leaving his canonist unprotected!! He still could've got 2 damage in because of exalted

Meh, everyone makes mistakes I guess hehe. This one is gonna stick around though.. for a while..

[Barook]

Jeez what a big mistake sunyveil did against elves by tapping both his mums leaving his canonist unprotected!! He still could've got 2 damage in because of exalted

Meh, everyone makes mistakes I guess hehe. This one is gonna stick around though.. for a while..
Even if the Canonist had stuck around, the Elves player could have cast Abrupt Decay on Jitte.

The Sisay Maverick (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/5936804) he's running seems pretty cool, although I'm still sceptical if it's smart to make yourself more vulnerable to combo, considering how infested with bad match-ups the MODO meta currently is. If I had played in that event, I probably would have faced combo/Miracles all day long.

[ironclad8690]

Has anyone tested thoroughly vs 4 color aggro loam? I am having trouble with that matchup.

[Koby]

Has anyone tested thoroughly vs 4 color aggro loam? I am having trouble with that matchup.

It's a tough matchup. You want to resolve KotR ASAP as this will be a threat that can live through Devastating Dreams. Outside of that, try to disrupt the graveyard recursion with Scavenging Ooze and/or DRS.

[ironclad8690]

It's a tough matchup. You want to resolve KotR ASAP as this will be a threat that can live through Devastating Dreams. Outside of that, try to disrupt the graveyard recursion with Scavenging Ooze and/or DRS.

Let's say were on standard GW or even GWb. Do you side in surgicals or bog?

[haganbmj]

Played the same brew of Maverick that I've been playing for months at the SCG Atlanta Open to a 6-3 finish.
Sadly I didn't take the most detailed notes, but I'll try and provide at least a bit of information.


Creatures (22) Spells (11+3) Lands (23+Maze) Sideboard
3 Mother of Runes 4 Swords to Plowshares 1 Dryad Arbor 1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sylvan Safekeeper 4 Green Sun's Zenith 1 Horizon Canopy 2 Surgical Extraction
4 Noble Hierarch 1 Life from the Loam 1 Karakas 2 Path to Exile
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben 2 Sylvan Library 1 Rogue's Passage 1 Crop Rotation
2 Stoneforge Mystic 1 Plains 1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Scryb Ranger 1 Umezawa's Jitte 3 Forest 1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Scavenging Ooze 1 Sword of Light and Shadow1 Verdant Catacombs 3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg 1 Batterskull 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage 4 Windswept Heath 2 Oblivion Ring
4 Knight of the Reliquary 1 Maze of Ith 4 Savannah 1 Krosan Grip
4 Wasteland


http://i.imgur.com/rMecyKG.png

Some Notes on the list.
I've found lately that the Stoneforge package gives you an edge in matches where you really need it.
The sideboard is fairly inbred, pulling from different eras of the deck. Surgical has been fine locally where we have a fair amount of Punishing Fire, but overall is probably not the best card for the deck.
I opted for 2 Path to Exile this week with the expectation of seeing more tribal locally at the open and having to deal with more Deathrite decks.
The Rogue's Passage is a bit of a local joke. I was originally running 5 basics, but decided one week to go with Rogue's Passage. People have suggested I just run a Sejiri Steppe or something in its place, but it's been fun for the time. It's been fine locally, winning me a few games I wouldn't have otherwise (like against D&T when he had Mom + Revoker on Light/Shadow) and being generally alright against the endless Knight of the Reliquary decks around my area.
I'm down to 2 Thalia because combo has been on the decline locally. The 3 Canonists in the sideboard help to make up for that. Both are good against Omni-Tell and Storm decks. I should probably have 1 Thalia and 2 Canonist in the board though for Sneak/Show help.
Sword of Light and Shadow over Fire/Ice because I expect to have to run through Deathrite Shamans all day long and expect my other matchups to be packing 4 Swords to Plowshares.
Round 1 (0-2) v Burn
Round 2 (2-1) v UWR Stoneblade
Round 3 (1-2) v Shardless BUG
Round 4 (2-0) v Goblins
Round 5 (2-0) v Fish (I think he cast 1 lord this entire match)
Round 6 (2-1) v Goblins
Round 7 (2-1) v UG 12-Post
Round 8 (0-2) v Goblins (drew 8 lands out of 9 cards g1)
Round 9 (2-0) v RUG Delver

Details

Round 1 (0-2) v Burn
He wins the die roll and leads off with a fetch into Mountain into Rift Bolt. I fetch a basic plains and drop Mother to try and coax the bolt, he obliges the lays another fetch and plays Grim Lavamancer. I fetch again (18) and play Pridemage. He thinks for a bit then fetches end of turn and Lightning Bolts my face (15). On his turn he plays another land and a Grim Lavamancer into a Flame Rift (11). On my turn I play land, Scavenging Ooze and Noble Hierarch, needing that fourth land to try and equip Jitte next turn to draw some action from his Lavamancers. He Lavamancers me end of turn (9) then untaps and goes Chain Lightning (6) -> Lavamancer (4) -> Fireblast (0).
Game two on the play I keep a hand with Savannah, Wasteland, Pridemage, GSZ, Knight, and Jitte. He leads on Goblin Guide and I fail to find a another land, I'm forced to GSZ for Noble Hierarch on turn two and he takes the opportunity to Price of Progress me for 4. Pretty sure he kills the Hierarch and I GSZ for another one to try and get the Pridemage and Knights out of my hand. I die shortly after with a Jitte and a Batterskull stuck in hand. I think I probably should have GSZ'd for Dryad on turn 1 since the GSZ is probably too slow for this match if I plan to curve out with this hand.

Round 2 (2-1) v UWR Stoneblade/Delver-whatever
Local guy, I win the roll and lead on Hierarch. He lays a Flooded Strand and passes back. I go for Ooze but he Spell Snares it. The game grinds out for a bit, him finding a Stoneforge -> Batterskull, which I have the swords for to lock the Skull in his hand. I win the game off a Knight that's able to Waste his manabase.
Game two he leads on delver and protects it pretty well. He has a number of counterspells and a swords to keep my field clear then plays a Geist of Saint Traft to hit hard.
Game three he mulls to 5 and I lead on Hierarch. He lays a Tundra and Brainstorms. I waste the Tundra, move to second mainphase, then cast Stoneforge which he Force of Wills pitching Submerge. He misses his land drop so I play a Knight of the Reliquary which he again is forced to Force. He misses his land again so I GSZ for a Knight and sit back. He misses another land and scoops it up.

Round 3 (1-2) v Shardless BUG
Game 1 I wasteland lock him after leading on Savannah + Hierarch. He continues to play a land every turn while I dredge my Life from the Loam. I cast a Thalia the turn he misses his land drop and continue to dredge. Once I go through 6+ lands of his he scoops to game two.
Game 2 he leads on deathrite and I take a risk to mainphase Path to Exile it assuming he's on the 0 basic land lists (he had fetched g1 and only found duals). He finds a swamp and we chuckle a bit. He later in the game plays a basic forest and tells me that he sideboarded in two basic lands (for blood moons and wastelands apparently). We play a close match, but his triple Goyf + double Ancestral Vision gets there.
Game 3 I mull to 5 and lay a land, He thoughtseizes me and takes a Thalia. I rip a Sylvan Library and play it. He Abrupt Decays the Library. I miss my third land and he Hymn to Tourachs me. He lays a goyf while I struggle to rebuild a hand.

At this point I'm 1-2 and looking forward to losing another round so I can drop and get food. Chipotle is sounding super nice.

Round 4 (2-0) v Goblins
My opponent is playing in his first non-testing legacy tournament and we chat about the format and his experience so far.
He's on the play and leads on Lackey. I have the option to GSZ for Dryad Arbor or Swords the Lackey. I opt to swords the lackey because he kept on 7 and all my recent testing has been with a high removal build of Goblins, which runs Tarfire, Warren Weirding, Stinkscourger, Gempalm, and Wasteland to punish me in this situation.
He misses his turn 2 land drop, buy lays an AEther Vial. I take the opportunity now to GSZ for Arbor and play a Mother of Runes. He finds a second land in the form of Plateau, then Tarfires my Mother before passing back. I Wasteland his Plateau and play a Pridemage, opting to destroy the vial as he clearly has a hand full of 3s and 4s. I continue to advance my board and he can't recover from the loss of tempo.
Game two goes in a similar direction with a vial on t1 and I get an active Jitte on t4 to seal up the game.

Round 5 (2-0) v Fish (I think he cast 1 lord this entire match)
Dissapointed that I'm not at Chipotle now I sit down for round 5 and my opponent cracks a joke about my Powerpuff Girls playmat. Hell yes. He wins the roll and lays a t1 Mutavault, then a t2 Mutavault and attacks me with the first while I'm tapped out. Clearly he's stuck off blue? I play a Scavenging Ooze and a Knight of the Reliquary and he fails to find two islands before I have the game locked up. Game two he leads Mutavault into AEther Vial. He plays a second Vial on t2 and starts to advance both of them. Again though he's missing his second blue land. My board gets more solidified before his slow Vials can do much. He has a Rejeery in play to my Knight, and I'm certain I've got him dead in a few turns because he's on full on chump block mode. Luckily, I topdeck Rogue's Passage and put him out of his misery - chuckling a bit.
After the match he tells me that he kept a double Vial hand with Submerge and drew the third Vial for his first turn.
Of Note: The two tables to my left both featured Fish, as did the table to my immediate right. So much tribal at this event.

Round 6 (2-1) v Goblins
He gets a game where I have triple Knight of the Reliquary and he has double Stinkscourger. Not much to say.
Game two I take when he leads on mountain then Wastelands me twice while I have a Hierarch and a developing board. He doesn't do much otherwise?
Game three is rather close, but I get a Batterskull down and keep my lifetotal high.

Round 7 (2-1) v UG 12-Post
My opponent leads on Tropical and lays a Sensei's Top. He tops during his upkeep then plays a Glimmerpost into an Expedition Map. We know where this is going. I play a Stoneforge Mystic and a Knight of the Reliquary and my opponent reads it. He then casts Show and Tell on his third turn putting a Kozelik into play. I place the Batterskull that I tutored for. I'm a bit confused at this point, but when I tutor up a Karakas on my turn my opponent says something along the lines of "oh you can tutor ANY land?" I take over the game quickly by tutoring for Wastelands every turn while beating with the Skull. He plays a Oblivion Stone but I keep him off the mana to activate it.
Game two I'm looking forward to Surgicaling some Cloudposts. He leads on Tropical again and cantrips, his turn two he plays a Pithing Needle on Wasteland.. then another on turn 4. He quickly builds up enough mana to cast Primeval Titan, untap some lands with Candelabra and cast Emrakul in the same turn.
Game three I get a Thalia down and Wasteland lock him with Life from the Loam.

Round 8 (0-2) v Goblins (drew 8 lands out of 9 cards g1)
He mulls to 5. I keep a 7 that is... Ooze, Pridemage, Sword of Light and Shadow, Windswept, Misty, Wasteland. Nothing too exhilarating, but it seems reasonable.
I draw a land, then a Hierarch on my second turn, then a land, and a land, and a land (repeat until I have 8 lands in play). I have a healthy life total thanks to him chumping with War Marshal tokens, but he builds up a board with Skirk Prospector then finds a Siege Gang off a Ringleader. During this time I do topdeck Rogue's Passage as one of my lands and am able to get in another hit with my Ooze+Sword to knock him to 5 life - sadly he has the Wasteland and I'm unable to keep the Passage on the table.
Once he plays Goblin Sharpshooter I know we're going to have a problem. He attacks me then sacs his board to the pair, clearly not the most aware at how to stack his Sharpshooter triggers and announce what's going on properly. I let him continue hoping he'll screw up with the summoning sick Sharpshooter and his Warchief. He sacs his whole board, then does mess up with me at 1 life, but quickly revises his ordering to a sequence that does work when I note that the Shooter is sick. I let him have it even though I shouldn't have.
Game two sees me mulligan down. He has a quick start and I'm stuck GSZing for Noble Hieararchs to replace my missed land drops.

Bleh. I'm 5-3 now going into the final round. My tiebreakers are roughly 51%, which is about middle of the barrel for my bracket. I'm playing the final round regardless since we've already scheduled to go to dinner (which is not Chipotle), but my breakers don't leave me too confident.

Round 9 (2-0) v RUG Delver
He opponent leads on Tropical Island and passes the turn. Should I put him on 12-post? hah nope. I lead on t1 Noble Hiearch off a fetched Forest. My opponent thinks for 20 seconds then takes a minute and a half to resolve a Brainstorm. While I'm staring at him he says "It's actually a tough one" before he Dazes my Hierarch. He replays his Tropical then passes back. I go for an Ooze which he Spell Snares after some deliberation. Fine with me. His turn 3 he plays a Wasteland and hits my Savannah. Sure. I go to fetch on my turn and he Stifles me. Sure. At this point I'm putting him on RUG Delver or some crazy UG control deck. He shuffles a Ponder then misses his land drop. I get a Sylvan Library on the table with another land. He asks me about the Oracle text on Library and I suggest we just call a judge to help explain it. After the judge walks away he turns to me and states that we should have gotten a minute extension. It's fine I say, "we just need to play a bit quicker" - he gets a bit pissy thinking I'm calling him a slow player. While cutting my deck he flips a card then flips it back shuffles my deck and hands it back to me. I say "I'll cut then" - he gets even pissier and tells me that he needs to have the last cut, yada yada. I just let him do his thing...
Back to the match and he finds a Wasteland to go with his Tropical Island and play a Tarmogoyf. I swords the Goyf with no creatures in hand to follow up with thanks to his first two counterspells. He plays another Goyf a turn later still missing his land drops. I take some lumps from it and go to 1 life before finding a Stoneforge into GSZ for Knight of the Reliquary. I Wasteland his Tropical Island, drop Batterskull. He misses another land drop and scoops to game two saying "I don't know why you think I'm playing slow" - so we're still on this.
Game two he floods, hard. He even has a Life from the Loam on turn 3 getting back two fetches. On the plus side he finally shows me the Red in his deck. He makes a remark to the effect of "I didn't know anyone still played Maverick. This is a good matchup for me" - Megadeus, who is watching the match now after drawing into top 32, and I chuckle a bit saying we're pretty sure that it's in Maverick's favor. He remarks that he has never seen me lose a matchup against RUG, which I acknowledge, but don't expand on trying to avoid further pissing off my opponent. He doesn't do much this game besides play out every dual in his deck. I slam a Knight and smash his face while he casts 2-mana Ponders through my Thalia digging for action. I'm content not to walk into Submerge and just beat him for 6 a turn.

I need a spoiler tag.

[Koby]

Let's say were on standard GW or even GWb. Do you side in surgicals or bog?

Surgical, no. It's low impact card against a deck with a variety of threats. Ideally you want to hit Burning Wish, but that never goes to the graveyard in practice.

Bog is a good value play against a decently sized or stocked graveyard. If you run Life from the Loam, you want to bring that in too, as well as any Thorn of Amethyst and any additional Scavenging Ooze.

[ironclad8690]

Thanks Koby, your insight is appreciated as always.

@ haganbmj
Nice job on the money finish!

[buloid]

Hi haganbmj,

Great report and congrats on a respectable finish!

I've been lurking this thread (and ONLY this thread) for a while now and finally decided to register and contribute.

I have some questions on your games:

1. I've noticed a small debate some time back on 4 moms and how an Olle Rade (Safekeeper) fits in. I noticed that your deck contained 3 Moms and 1 Olle, which is also the setup i've always had for the longest time. I can imagine that Safekeeper performs well on BUG matchups, but poorly on some others. How did your configuration of 3+1 work for you?
2. Why did you choose to go 2 Sylvan? Did you expect this to be an auto-counter and thus go for a second one? The reason I ask is I have a fellow Maverick player in my community who swears to 2 Sylvans, while I have always gone 1 Sylvan. The card performs, but I've always chosen to have only 1 of it in my deck as I'd prefer to draw more business cards in most other occasions.
3. Your Rogue Passage tech raised me an eyebrow, and I have been thinking about this card ever since it came out (like how most Maverick players think when lands are revealed in spoilers). Given it's limited, but impactful presence when you need it the most, how did you feel about drawing in other scenarios? I use 1 Cavern in my build but have been debating whether i should put two instead or, given the success you've derived off of it, 1 Cavern and 1 Rogue.
4. Given that you play the traditional GW Maverick build, why did you choose to not put Gaea's Cradle seeing that you had Batterskull mainboard and Life from the Loam as a way to recur it from removal?

Thanks in advance and congrats again!

[litenkatt]

So.. we're a DtB now again

[DragoFireheart]

Wow. DTB?

Do I spy four monoish colored decks that are DTB? Five decks without brainstorm? The format seems VERY healthy at the moment. What I also see is a lot of decks that are soft to Burn. Considering that a Burn deck did well recently, we should anticipate more Burn decks.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5460-DTBF-Philosophy-amp-Deck-Selection/page3


The threshold is 114 points, which this time makes for a neat DtB:


Maverick
Threshold UGR
Blade Control
Burn
Reanimator
Sneak Attack
Nic Fit

(Burn is in the DtB, go take a shot of your favourite liquor, it's the rules.)

Never forget.

[haganbmj]

Hi haganbmj,

Great report and congrats on a respectable finish!
Thanks a bunch! Appreciate it.


I've been lurking this thread (and ONLY this thread) for a while now and finally decided to register and contribute.

I have some questions on your games:

1. I've noticed a small debate some time back on 4 moms and how an Olle Rade (Safekeeper) fits in. I noticed that your deck contained 3 Moms and 1 Olle, which is also the setup i've always had for the longest time. I can imagine that Safekeeper performs well on BUG matchups, but poorly on some others. How did your configuration of 3+1 work for you?
I began running the 3/1 split when UW Miracles became the hot new thing. I needed a Green Sunable target to help me establish a Gaddock Teeg lock against those decks (since most ran 0 outs). Miracles has been on the decline, but I often find that with all the abrupt decays running around I need that same insurance on a GSZ to protect my threats. It has worked out rather well for me so far.


2. Why did you choose to go 2 Sylvan? Did you expect this to be an auto-counter and thus go for a second one? The reason I ask is I have a fellow Maverick player in my community who swears to 2 Sylvans, while I have always gone 1 Sylvan. The card performs, but I've always chosen to have only 1 of it in my deck as I'd prefer to draw more business cards in most other occasions.
I chose 2 Sylvan Library because it's your game against Brainstorm, Jace, and Ancestral Visions (and even Shardless Agent to a degree). Library finds you what you need and allows you to draw cards in the control/stoneblade matchups where you might otherwise fall behind their Card Advantage. I play the two because I want to see the card in almost every matchup. I think the card is very important and haven't run less than two in months.
Playing two helps me find the business too. I'm on 7 fetch lands, which is a bit high for most straight GW Maverick decks I believe, but it works well to keep my Sylvan Library's fresh.


3. Your Rogue Passage tech raised me an eyebrow, and I have been thinking about this card ever since it came out (like how most Maverick players think when lands are revealed in spoilers). Given it's limited, but impactful presence when you need it the most, how did you feel about drawing in other scenarios? I use 1 Cavern in my build but have been debating whether i should put two instead or, given the success you've derived off of it, 1 Cavern and 1 Rogue.

4. Given that you play the traditional GW Maverick build, why did you choose to not put Gaea's Cradle seeing that you had Batterskull mainboard and Life from the Loam as a way to recur it from removal?
The Rogue's Passage is a bit of a joke, but I've enjoyed having something unique that catches people off guard. I ran Gaea's Cradle back when I first started playing Maverick and didn't really need the mana aside from the 3 mainboard Scavenging Ooze I ran, it often screwed me out of an early green source back in that list.
With my current list, I would have no objections to running a Gaea's Cradle. The card allows you to keep the pressure on with Wastelands while still having relevant mana for equipment and GSZ. It would also allow me to consider a sideboard Sigarda, Host of Herons to further improve the BGx matchups. I'll certainly have to look into borrowing one or finding one to test with.


The Life from the Loam that I run is more of a meta call. We have a ridiculous number of wasteland decks in my area and having those extra land drops help. Further, waste-locking the greedy manabases of this formats tempo decks can be a gameplan in its own right.
I've experimented with black splashes and blue splashes, extra Scryb Rangers, Aether Vials, Punishing Fire, etc... but GW Maverick has been the most consistent for me. The deck is to the point and forgoes a lot of the gimmicks that an extra color provides. By keeping my numbers of Pridemages and Scavenging Oozes, I'm able to save my GSZ's for the times I need them and make the most of the deck's resilience. I've been pleased with it.

[buloid]

Thanks again, haganbmj


To everyone,

Have you sighted or toyed around with ideas on any new Maverick-worthy cards in Theros? Here are my picks:

1. Bow of Nylea -- though it would most probably fit in my Modern Hatebears (GW for life) than Maverick and it's not fetch-able by SFM, it's an entry-level Jitte at best for those without one. But what I like about it is that there's always something you can do on your opponent's end-step, and the fourth effect (pseudo soldevi digger) works well vs opposing Deathrites, fizzling your would-be loss of 2 life.

2. Mistcutter Hydra -- a one-of at most as it's not a feasible GSZ target, but can kill a Jace at times when it's played on an empty board.

Your takes?

[Fatal]

I would rather play green Groundbreaker or Timbermare then Hydra - GSZable is a huge factor in deck with a lot of 1-ofs, how many Hydras would you play to be consistant ?
Note that its body is rather poor to its cost in compare to any other creatures - those wrote upper have decent power to cmc to be a finishers also.

Uncounterable isn't such a big deal in turn 4-5, most time controls side out FoWs just to pick up more removal since is always 2-for-1 for them.

It has big impact in threshold MU where Hydra is.. just bad and overcosted - 4 mana and still dies to bolt, also haste there isn't so important like in Control MU.

[Barook]

Has anybody tested Cursed Scroll in his Maverick build as a sideboard yet?

Punishing Fire is pretty strong in the current meta due to 2 repeatable damage, but it makes the manabase much more complicated.

Scroll could be tutored for and be played in any color combination. Just like a repeated PF activations, it costs 3 mana and the one-card requirement isn't hard for us to reach. Main problem I can see is the weakness to Abrupt Decay (and Needle/Revoker weakness to a certain degree) and being somewhat slow, but it dodges graveyard hate/Wasteland and can shoot down Moms. It also works better under Thalia, although I doubt you would run it in the same 60 cards as Thalia when siding it in.

[door]

Has anybody tested Cursed Scroll in his Maverick build as a sideboard yet?


tried it in both Dnt and Maverick. It was too conditional to be good.

[Machahiko]

I've been wondering what does M@verick play at this moment? When he last played Maverick he played a build with vials and lots of hatebears, he also seemed to do quite well with it. People didn't give a lot of consideration for that list and everyone still runs the gsz package instead of vial'n stuff.

[slikwilly]

1. Bow of Nylea -- though it would most probably fit in my Modern Hatebears (GW for life) than Maverick and it's not fetch-able by SFM, it's an entry-level Jitte at best for those without one. But what I like about it is that there's always something you can do on your opponent's end-step, and the fourth effect (pseudo soldevi digger) works well vs opposing Deathrites, fizzling your would-be loss of 2 life.

I've thought about Bow in the Vial list. Counters on BoP would be nice, the life gain can be good, the ability to put wastes and canopy back into the library to get back with Wayfarer seems good, and kills Delvers and Cliques.

I'll probably try it out at some point, but the Vial list is already packed, so making a cut for it isn't easy. And not being able to tutor it up is a knock against it.

[ironclad8690]

I've been wondering what does M@verick play at this moment? When he last played Maverick he played a build with vials and lots of hatebears, he also seemed to do quite well with it. People didn't give a lot of consideration for that list and everyone still runs the gsz package instead of vial'n stuff.

I'm not sure if permanently, but he played dark maverick most recently:

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=11121&iddeck=81252

So I did some extensive testing vs Patriot Delver, and punishing was only version that won consistently. GW struggles against grim lavamancer, lightning bolt and swords. The only game I won in fact was off of my opponent mulling to 5. It gets worse post board as well with submerges coming in. Less counters and more removal. Dark splash was just as miserable, with nothing really coming to the rescue. I have been reluctant to play abrupt decay in dark splash, but it appears to be necessary for the tempo matchups, at least as a two of in the 75. Punishing version can just kill every creature they play sans geist of saint win so that one went better. Just thought I'd report on my testing and see if anyone has any sick anti UWr tempo tech.

[nicoleptik]

Just thought I'd report on my testing and see if anyone has any sick anti UWr tempo tech.

Isn't Thrun the troll you are looking for? Dodges targeted removals and counterspells, and can block Geist all day long.

[M@verick]

I have just played 3 local tourneys since BOM, and I played different decks in all of them.
I usually play in mws and try different decks, and i have returned to my GW vial right now. I have been playing safekeeper less, and the deck get worse.

I have in mind to reduce to 20 lands. What do you guys think? 20 lands plus vials, wayfarers and birds/nobles. I think it will be enough, but i need to test it more. The list would be the same that I played in BOM, removing 1 maze and 1 cavern and adding 2 sylvan library. Maze of ith is not really a mana source, so virtually we are only reducing in one land.

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [A] Savannah
1 [U] Forest (3)
1 [7E] Plains (3)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls

// Creatures
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [ON] Weathered Wayfarer
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
3 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
2 [JU] Sylvan Safekeeper
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary

// Spells
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
2 [LG] Sylvan Library

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [TE] Choke
SB: 1 [PLC] Sunlance
SB: 1 [MBS] Leonin Relic-Warder
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction

In sb i want to try sunlance, as fifth removal, much better than path to exile, to face delvers, shamans, lavamancers, revokers, nobles, confidants, vendilions, metalworkers, lackeys, all elves... and a mix of rings and leonin. I think ring is better against control decks, but leonin is good with vial and against GW and D&T, decks which play few removal, in order to face their jittes.

[Lennard]

@ M@verick

Do you board out KotR when you board in RiP?

[M@verick]

No, its still a very useful creature. Is a big dude agaisnt MUs like jund and RUG, where rip shine. So both cards are always welcome. The percentatge to draw one of both is higher

[Barook]

Can we discuss measures to improve our game vs UW Miracles and Punishing Jund? Not just sideboard tech, but also MD ways to stop them. Miracles is getting more popular on MODO lately and the occasional Punishing Jund is just as bad as a match-up. Since combo is as relevant as ever, running black is pretty much a given in the MODO meta.

Teeg is really good against Miracles, but Karakas or an untimely StP still answers him rather easily. Revoker is decent to stop their Tops, Jaces or EEs, but rather hard to fit into the MD.

Jund is a different beast. Their removal barrage makes it very hard for us stick creatures to the board, with both Liliana and Punishing Fire being major offenders. Post-board RiP is somewhat effective, but AD can answer it easily. Ironically, PF is rather good against them, too, since everything they have except Goyf dies to it. However, the red splash is subpar against combo and I have yet to see a 4 color manabase that is consistent enough to support both red and black.

What is your experience with those match-up and what cards were truely effective?

- Thrun seems like a good candidate due to being removal-resistant (pretty much only Liliana and Terminus can hit him).
- Maybe a more Walker-heavy version? Although a too top-heavy deck would probably suffer against combo and Tempo.
- Lingering Souls? On-color with the black splash, an outlet against Planeswalkers and provides resistance against Terminus.

@M@verick: Why do you think about Quirion Ranger? Same ability as Scryb Ranger, but 1 mana cheaper. It could enable T2 shenanigans with Wayfarer.

[haganbmj]

Can we discuss measures to improve our game vs UW Miracles and Punishing Jund? Not just sideboard tech, but also MD ways to stop them. Miracles is getting more popular on MODO lately and the occasional Punishing Jund is just as bad as a match-up. Since combo is as relevant as ever, running black is pretty much a given in the MODO meta.

When I play against Miracles my gameplan is usually to avoid overextending. Pridemage is a great beater in this matchup because eventually they have to answer him thanks to the exalted triggers.
I usually try and move towards sticking Sylvan Safekeeper as well to narrow their answers. From there a Teeg usually ends the match assuming you avoid walking into a Clique.
My local guys are sideboarding Pyroclasm because it plays a huge roll in your creature matchups - especially when a Rest in Peace is involved. Game two/three I have to watch for that, which does make it more difficult.

Against Punishing Jund I play towards getting an Ooze on board. They have to Abrupt Decay/Pulse him assuming you play around Punishing Fire and from there a Knight can start to control the game - both are formidable threats and can serve to occupy the Jund players resources. Ooze limits their usage of Punishing Fire as well and you can manipulate their game just by his presence.

[Barook]

When I play against Miracles my gameplan is usually to avoid overextending. Pridemage is a great beater in this matchup because eventually they have to answer him thanks to the exalted triggers.
I usually try and move towards sticking Sylvan Safekeeper as well to narrow their answers. From there a Teeg usually ends the match assuming you avoid walking into a Clique.
My local guys are sideboarding Pyroclasm because it plays a huge roll in your creature matchups - especially when a Rest in Peace is involved. Game two/three I have to watch for that, which does make it more difficult.

Against Punishing Jund I play towards getting an Ooze on board. They have to Abrupt Decay/Pulse him assuming you play around Punishing Fire and from there a Knight can start to control the game - both are formidable threats and can serve to occupy the Jund players resources. Ooze limits their usage of Punishing Fire as well and you can manipulate their game just by his presence.
Not overextending against Miracles is a given, but you also need to pressure them or they'll establish board control and you're boned. It's a double-edged sword. I'm not exactly a huge fan of Safekeeper since he's a horrible topdeck and somewhat conditional. As a SB GSZ target? Maybe, but SB slots are tight.

Ooze needs tons of mana to work against Jund since they can bolt it in response to its first activations. It also falls prey to Liliana once they've burned away your other weenies with PF. KotR is rather so-so, too - if they have DRS active, it isn't very stellar as a threat.

I'd love to give Punishing Maverick another try since it's huge in grinding out fair match-ups, but as long as its combo match-up is bad, I'm not so keen about bringing it to daily events.

@anybody playing Punishing Maverick: What do you think about the new R/G walker Xenagos?

[allek]

The best way to beat (punishing) jund is by boarding in RIP and Needle/Revoker. RIP kills 12+ cards (P-Fire, Goyf, Shaman, Lavamancer) and the needles stops Liliana which can be real troublesome. Board out a few KOTR and Ooze to minimize your own dependence on the graveyard. Also, they will bring in Engineered Plague so play accordingly and don't play multiple humans. Let Thrun/Sigarda/Elspeth or whatever you have at the end of your curve do the beating. These games are very drawn out so Sylvan Library is great for you. Unfortunately it's great for them too so you MUST use Pridemage to nuke it asap.

Miracle is a coinflip. If you resolve Gaddock and can protect it with Safekeeper you're fine but otherwise you'll probably only win if they fail to draw Terminus. Needle/Revoker is a must and Choke is nice too even though it hurts other blue decks better. Try to save a fetchland in play so that you can get Dryad Arbor EOT after Terminus, it can go a long way with some exalted triggers or a Jitte. Scryb Ranger is also good against Jace. All in all, this is the worst of the "fair" matchups so good luck!

[Fatal]

Both MU require intensive testing analysis Game 1 MD:

Punishing Jund:

Depends on version you play:

GW Straight:
Strategy - depends on draw or on play - on play you should focus on their mana, StP as soon as possible deathrite shaman, and tax with Thalia, 3 mana for decay, or punishing fire is a lot - you can tempo them out - try to empty your hand as soon as possible - their discard will be useless, attack their manabase.
EV creatures from most important - Dark Cofidant,(scavegning Ooze - not all version play them), deathrite shaman, goyf, BBE. Resolved KotR with Mom protection is mostly the win. If you starting and have Mom - try to assamble it - if she survive (PF version running less bolts) you will blind most removal. GSZ for Oozes if they have PF in gy and no chance to to pick it up, otherwise KotRs will be best target. Don't waste StP on goyfs (only if necessary) - use Oozes to small them.

MVP: Thalia on play, KotRs, Moms (only on play), StP (on shaman's and confidants), Oozes, Sylvan Library - Never board out all Pridemages, they have Sylvan Library also and most of time sb-in Umezawa's Jitte. Having Sylvan Safekeeper improve this MU.


GWb:
It's still grindy MU black splash only improve if running Dark Confidants, and more removal (Abrupt Decay's) - discard good only on start.

MVP: Same as upper + Dark Confidants, safe Abrupt Decay's vs Liliana, Lingering Souls works very vell here.

GWr with Punishing:
It's like mirror but you running more effective creatures then theirs - KotRs, Oozes and more Tutors - they can't remove Punishing Fire except wastelanding Grove, or with Shaman - so just start killing creatures from Shamans save StP to Goyfs.


Key to victory - play your creatures from hand as soon as you can - to blind their discard. You are aggresor in this MU. Beeing on play is much harder, try to slow them down with wastelands - they're running virtual less mana dorks (no GSZ) and require more colored mana then we.

Miracles:

It's much different beast then Punishing Jund - keep tempo up but never overextend, safe GSZ for Sylvan Safekeeper + Gaddock lock - play unprotected Gaddock only in critical situation - read from their brainstorms - most time its very simple know when Terminus is comming. Punishing them if they don't fetch basics.

GW straight - not running Sylvan Safekeeper is big downgrade here - you should have something in this slot like Thrun or Sigarda which can survive point removal.
Equipments here are very important since every creature will be a thread which keep up threads with small creature count on board. If Mom or you have 3+ lands and Safekeeper survive try to GSZ for Teeg and seal the game.

MVP here: Equips, GSZ, Teeg, Moms, Sylvan Safekeeper, Hexproof creatures, Thalia, Qasali Pridemages

GWb: Try to discard when they are tapout, decay CB and Rest in peace, keep same rules as GW straight - Confidants will be best here.

MVP: Same as upper + Decay's, Confidants, T1 Discard or when they're tapout - discarding SDT, or brainstorm will have huge advantage here.

GW/r Punishing - it has probably the same as upper version + you can always PF their Jaces and keep tempo with it. Same strategy as upper.

Miracles is a flipcoin question is how fast they can assamble +2 EtA and you protected Gaddock Teeg - its basically the race.

@Revoker does nothing vs Punishing Jund. Needle is better but only turn off Liliana.

@Xenagos - didn't test it yet.

[Tombstalker]

For jund it seems like going old school with LftL and bojuka bog main could help a bit. Also maybe a couple compost in the SB although these would be better if going with PF maverick to maximize their value.

M@verick- Do you find the flash ability of vial to be more desirable/essential atm as opposed to the toolbox of GSZ?

[klaus]

Do you find the flash ability of vial to be more desirable/essential atm as opposed to the toolbox of GSZ?

Don't forget that Vial not only provides superior speed, but also uncounterability. The flash surprise aspect is but a fancy bonus compared to those benefits. Plus Vial is more Thalia-friendly.

[Barook]

Thanks for the in-depth analysis, Fatal. How's Lingering Souls in the Miracle match-up, though? You didn't mention it there.

I'm probably giving a Punishing Maverick variant another try since some dude I played against today called my attention to Fabian Görzgen's Top 8 list (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpstr13/welcome) today.

Does anyone know what the Stony Silence, Phyrexian Metamorph and Leyline of Sanctity were for?

I can't exactly see Leyline being much of a help against combo since they can either go off and bounce it mid-combo or simply ignore it (like S&T variants).

[kingtk3]

...
Does anyone know what the Stony Silence, Phyrexian Metamorph and Leyline of Sanctity were for?

I can't exactly see Leyline being much of a help against combo since they can either go off and bounce it mid-combo or simply ignore it (like S&T variants).

Given the fact that he was playing Enlightened tutor in side, I think that sotny silence was there for storm combo (shuts down LED, Petals, moxes, belcher...), painter and as a catch all answer to artifact (affinity).
In those days Phyrexian metamorph could still be used to kill opposing legends.
I share your doubts on leyline, maybe it was there to fight discard and not only combo.

[Koby]

Metamorph was used in the heavy Reanimator days as a means to kill Legends and in conjunction with E-tutor. It's now defunct.

[M@verick]

M@verick- Do you find the flash ability of vial to be more desirable/essential atm as opposed to the toolbox of GSZ?

Is not better or worst, but I feel more confortable with vial, and it would be my choice for a big tournament.

In addition to what has been already said, its much harder to play agaisnt GW vial. People often dont know how the deck works and what it is able to do. Then they get surprised when in eot you play stoneforge and knight, and a cradle and sword of fire/ice later they lost the game.

In a format in which blue decks shine and occupy a large percentage of field, aether vial is always awesome.

[Fatal]

Agree with M@verick that if player didn't faced Vial build and don't know how to play against he will lose. But this isn't reason to bring it on big tournament - every of those have good players which know what is going on :).

@sorry for didn't mention about Lingering Souls - they for sure very good vs Miracle since they provide 2-for-1 slow but still a tempo which is important in this MU.

[door]

About the Jund and Miracles match ups: if we speak about g1, there are few cards which can help against both decks, among them I would recommend plainswalkers and stoneforge mystic + batterskull or sword of x+y. I myself found Garruk Relentless to be the best walker in this way, against Miracles he makes tougher guys than Elspeth and can be used to find useful creatures if you find way to flip him, against Jund he is good in every situation - puts a wolf for Liliana or kills shaman/confidant/etc and next turn finds KotR. In all situations he is easier to cast than Elspeth, which has ww in its cost.

It's more complicated after sideboarding, however. Equipments are usually not effective, because those decks have some really annoying sb cards against artifacts (ancient grudge, disenchant+snapcaster or clique), while putting a batterskull into play costs a lot of tempo and resources. Other than plainswalkers I could not find a similarly effective strategy against both decks. Only pithing needles came to my mind. They are slightly better than phyrexian revokers, being resilient to the unfair creature removal in those decks and they come down on t1, not leaving a chance for getting profit from SDT or DS activation. Another card I'd like to mention is surgical extraction, which is situational but useful in both match ups. It really shines when we speak about removing punishing fires, but also I found it being effective in removing swords to plowshares or brainstorms, or messing with their topdeck, when is smells miracles. However, it requires lots of concentration to properly play extraction against Miracles and not give a sign that you have it in your hand, otherwise they'll be able to play around it.

[blackdiamonds]

Anyone have any list for the GP in Washington? I'm split on so many versions

[Barook]

Anyone have any list for the GP in Washington? I'm split on so many versions
What metagame do you expect?

[blackdiamonds]

What metagame do you expect?

I feel it's going to be very split. More fair decks then unfair

[Barook]

I feel it's going to be very split. More fair decks then unfair
That's still rather unprecise.

If you feel confident enough that you aren't going to run into combo all day long, GW Maverick for consistency or GWr Punishing Maverick might be your weapons of choice. PF is really great for grinding out other fair decks.

[ThediscoPower]

Anyone have any list for the GP in Washington? I'm split on so many versions

To be honest, it's pretty early to have a final decision. Right now, this is what I am testing :


23 Lands
4 Windswept Heath
1 misty rainforest
1 verdant catacomb
1 Sejiri Steppe
3 Wasteland
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor

23 Creatures
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 birds of paradise
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 sylvan safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger

14 Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 lingering souls
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 sword of light and shadow
1 sorin, lord of innistrad

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Garruk Relentless
2 surgical extraction
1 thrun, the last troll
2 loxodon smiter
2 zealous persecution
1 wilt-leaf liege


As I say, it's too early for me to have a fixed opinion, if even to be sure that I will indeed play maverick at all that weekend. I am fairly confident against fair decks (decks I get to test a lot against), But I am worried about the number of unfair decks that I will see, notably storm and belcher.

[ironclad8690]

Has anyone ever tried adding a slight red splash for lightning bolt? I know punishing is already out there, but bolt makes more sense to run alongside thalia. By having thalia/teeg in addition to a little more removal in the main deck, I think the attrition matchups (midrange/tempo) are improved a little and the manabase is only marginally weakened. I came up with the idea after reading reid duke's article about legacy jund, about the importance of having 1 mana answers to deathrite shaman. Having REB in the board gives us an awesome tool vs show and tell and jace decks. I have basically gone back to two jitte and 0 stoneforge to accommodate this package.

[ironclad8690]

Has anyone ever tried adding a slight red splash for lightning bolt? I know punishing is already out there, but bolt makes more sense to run alongside thalia. By having thalia/teeg in addition to a little more removal in the main deck, I think the attrition matchups (midrange/tempo) are improved a little and the manabase is only marginally weakened. I came up with the idea after reading reid duke's article about legacy jund, about having more 1 mana answers to deathrite shaman. Having REB in the board gives us an awesome tool vs show and tell and jace decks. I have basically gone back to two jitte and 0 stoneforge to accommodate this package.

Tested it a bit, it was about as powerful as GW straight or Dark Maverick. Red elemental blast is about as good as thoughtseize vs show and tell decks, but you only have that postboard. Lightning bolt performed well alongside thalia, and having two cavern still was pretty awesome. The weakness of the manabase does come into play though, especially when you keep a hand with maze/dryad arbor in it.

[barcode]

I played a GWu Maverick list with Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage combo yesterday at a GPT and made top 4. List and TR over http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26804-Washington-DC-GPT-Top-4-with-GWu-Maverick

The list is alright, but I don't like the Stage/Depths combo. It's too fragile and so many decks can interact with it through Wasteland, Karakas, Plow, etc. You lose too much material if you make a 20/20 and it doesn't connect, I will not play it again. I'm going back to Gaea's Cradle.

I want to find room for Elspeth again in the 75. Overall, glad to be playing Maverick again.

[alphastryk]

Just to chime in from the Miracles player's perspective, if you want to beat us, play more Teegs. Seriously. That's usually almost the only card that matters on your side.

[Barook]

Of course is Teeg good against Miracles. Just like Sunyveil, I run 2 in the MD along with 4 GSZ. What else should we do? Run a third copy + Safekeeper against Karakas?

The MODO meta is currently overrun with bad match-ups for Maverick - not only Miracles, but also tons of combo, BUG or Punishing Jund. It isn't really to fun to play right now.

[sdematt]

If you want to win against Miracles, he's right. Teeg, Safekeeper, Mom, and Thalia will kill that crap dead. Needle on Top is the nail in the coffin...

-Matt

[alphastryk]

If you want to win against Miracles, he's right. Teeg, Safekeeper, Mom, and Thalia will kill that crap dead. Needle on Top is the nail in the coffin...

-Matt

Yeah - Teeg, Safekeeper, Mom is basically the hard lock.

[Pans-Advocate]

Miracles players in my area have been casting Enlightened Tutor for Cursed Totem recently. It's not pretty.

[Fatal]

If we talking about side also Engineered Explosives works very well vs miracles - kill CB and Angel tokens which is their main wincon vs us. EE also gives us chance to blow up random stuff like Cursed Totem.

[ironclad8690]

If we talking about side also Engineered Explosives works very well vs miracles - kill CB and Angel tokens which is their main wincon vs us. EE also gives us chance to blow up random stuff like Cursed Totem.

It is also an out to insectile aberration and geist of st traft, which are two of the only reasons tempo can beat us most of the time

[Koby]

Miracles players in my area have been casting Enlightened Tutor for Cursed Totem recently. It's not pretty.

Harmonic Sliver is a helluva card.

[alphastryk]

Harmonic Sliver is a helluva card.

Yeah, sliver is probably the best answer, although O-Ring and Krosan Grip are good in the matchup already too.

I'm surprised anyone is played cursed totem, both this match and Elves shouldn't need the help from Miracles' board.

[ironclad8690]

Hm, surprising people are giving Maverick/Death And Taxes that much credit these days. I cannot see anyone bringing that in vs stoneforge or deathrite shaman. I have used harmonic vs cursed totem/moat in the past, as well as E tutor and Serenity out of the board.

[Koby]

Hm, surprising people are giving Maverick/Death And Taxes that much credit these days. I cannot see anyone bringing that in vs stoneforge or deathrite shaman. I have used harmonic vs cursed totem/moat in the past, as well as E tutor and Serenity out of the board.

I would bring it in against Miracles (regardless of E-tutor or not), Lands, and Show & Tell. Vs Stoneblades, creature spot removal and planeswalkers is fine.

[ironclad8690]

I would bring it in against Miracles (regardless of E-tutor or not), Lands, and Show & Tell. Vs Stoneblades, creature spot removal and planeswalkers is fine.

Oh, I meant people bringing in cursed totem against us. Yes, harmonic seems great in those matches you mentioned though, as does leonin relic warder, though leonin would be better in vial builds and harmonic better in GSZ builds.

BTW I am going to that GPT at knightware on Oct 13th. You going to be there?

[Barook]

Just saw this build in the MTGO DE decklists (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6021813). It looks a bit unconventional, but also kinda interesting:

2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tarmogoyf

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
4 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard:
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Pithing Needle
1 Rule of Law
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Zealous Persecution

[ironclad8690]

Just saw this build in the MTGO DE decklists (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6021813). It looks a bit unconventional, but also kinda interesting:

2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tarmogoyf

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
4 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard:
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Pithing Needle
1 Rule of Law
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Zealous Persecution

Looks like a pretty sweet junk/maverick hybrid. There was another one a little higher by troll slayer too.

[door]

Hello everyone. I just had great weekend in Milan. I played maverick at the legacy part of Ovinogeddon and went all the way to the finals, where I split the prizes with my friend.
The list is something that is not popular here right now:

Creatures (24)

3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Stoneforge Mystic

Planeswalkers (1)

1 Garruk Relentless

Lands (23)

4 Savannah
1 Forest
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
1 Rishadan Port
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths

Spells (12)

4 Aether Vial
1 Sylvan Library
1 Crop Rotation
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Gaddock Teeg

Short report:
407 players, 9 rounds, top8

R1. Grixis 2:0; Won with Dark Depths in first game and mother of runes - scavenging ooze - knight of the reliquary - equipment in the second, lived through perish. There were no confidants and lavamancers, but there were tombastalkers.

R2. UWr RIP Miracles 2:1; Won 1st game with dark depths, and with pithing needle+hatebears in the 3rd game.

R3. ANT 2:0; Turn 2 Revoker naming LED won me 1st game, and I mindbreak trapped in game 2.

R4. Grixis 2:0; It was a tough race. Jitte let me answer all confidants in g1, pithing needles and revokers let me answer lavamancers in g2.

R5. Canadian Thresh 0:2; Mulliganed to 5 in g1 and to 6 in 2. Also my opponent countered most of my early threats, also delayed my Dark Dapths activation with stifle and raced with creatures. Now I am 4-1 and have to win all the rest to be in top8.

R6. Goblins 2:0; G1 won with Dark Depths and G2 won with Sword of fire and ice.

R7. UWr thopter Miracles 2:0; Dark Depths in G1 let me champblock a lethal angel token and let me win next turn. In g2 needles, revokers and harmonic sliver gave me victory.

R8. UWr Miracles 2:1; It was one of the most difficult games that day. I had no chances in G1 - Terminus and Entreat the Angels for 6 didn't leave a chance. In g2 and 3, however, I managed to block his game with pithing needles, wastelands and hatebears.

R9. ANT 2:0; Feature match. He had a slow hand g1 and I was able to save my live with scavenging ooze and finish his life with finding Thalia with Garruk. G2 I mindbreak trapped his Ad Nauseum.
overall 8:1

In top8 I think I was all the time on camera. It's difficult for me to recollect the games, but they were very hard and completely mind blowing. The things that let me win against both DnT were: side out my vials and needle/revoker their vials, Marite Lage, Birds of Paradise wielding Sword of Fire and Ice, Garruk killing opponent's Stoneforge, making an army of wolves and finding me KoTR, needle on wasteland, sylvan library.
Top8: DnT 2:1
Top4: DnT 2:1
Finals: split, getting 2 of each dual and fetch.

The videos should appear soon. Eagerly waiting to watch and analyze my play. Overall great weekend, great italian people met, one of the wishes accomplished (win a big tourny with my own brew).

Great thanks to Luis Viciano aka M@verick, whose vial build was a foundation for my current D2D Maverick. Birds of Paradise which you signed for me was keeping me up all the day! Also huge thanks to my russian test team: Roman Nikolaev, Nikita Shavirin, Oleg Silyukov and Vladimir Padve, with whome I actually split the finals.

The mtgq.it asked me to write a primer on my list, so perhaps it will appear there soon, so if you have questions you can wait for the article, or shoot me here/in pm but I'm not sure I'll be able to answer fast. Thanks for reading!

[klaus]

.
Gratz. Very cool build! I played against "M@verick" online and gotta say it's indeed a surprisingly solid deck.
Q: Why Birds over Hierarchs - just for SoFI?
Edit: 23 land seems excessive alongside 3 Birds, 4 Vials and 2 Wayfarers. Obviously 23 didn't keep you from winning, but don't you think 22 might the correct amount?

[Fatal]

Congrats on your finish,

Few interesting questions (can be a hint to article which are you writing):

- Singleton rishadan port - is 6th off-color land gives enough value for its cost of destabilize your color mana - specially when your vial wasn't on opening hand ?
- how Eladamri's Call as GSZ substitute for vial build was working for you ?
- single crop rotation - I understand that it powerup your DD-Sage plan did it matter in your plays ?
- Surgical Exctraction / Oozes - you didn't face any gy-based decks - with crop rotation did you would replace 1 Surgical for Bojuka ?
- 3 Revokers MD and 2 more Pithing Needle on sb - that's quite a lot - how it was in practice ?
- 3 Miracles in Swiss - thats very though MU for Maverick specially Vial build - from perspective on those matches what would you change MD/SB ?
- in top you faced two D&T - looks like meta was very focused on Vial decks, you said that your strategy was take off vials and name them with revokers - your sb didn't contain more removal which is the key in creature-centric mirrors how you deal with turn 1 mom - keeping hands with StP, like vs Goblins ?

Good luck with writing I will link the article in primer (probably should also update it with few recent lists based on last tournaments)

[Barook]

Grats on your finish, door.

It seems like Dark Depths did quite a bit of work for you. When did you normally get it online?

I'm also suprised that you only run one SFM. Vial Maverick is normally more equipment-centric to compensate for the lack of GSZ.

[.Ix]

awesome

Congrats on the split! It's great to finally see someone go all the way in a huge tourney with Maverick with Depths.

[Megadeus]

No maze of ith? Is that standard in vial builds?

[M@verick]

I am glad you did such a good job. Congratulations on your finish, Door.
You won ANT 2-0 twice, wow!

Birds of paradise is undervalued (even more if it is signed :P). It´s a beast carryng a SOFI.

There is a common belief that GW can´t beat miracles. That not happens to GW vial, at least in my experience. I dont know Ilya´s deck, which have a fast clock with DD, but I main 2 gaddock very hardly countereable thanks to vial and caverns, and protected with mothers and safekeepers. Stoneforge is also a house, and with equipments in battlefield, all creatures become killing machines.

I am surprised that Ilya just play one stoneforge. ¿what about oozes? ¿did they work well?
I have never thought about siding out aether vial agaisnt DnT. But I will consider in the future.

[Morte]

Congratulations door, I’m really happy you did great with Vial Maverick + DD combo, my favorite deck!
Your rework of the list is extremely interesting, love your land toolbox. Only question, why two basic plains?

[door]

Thanks everyone! As Fatal suggested I will use these questions as tips for my primer.



Q: Why Birds over Hierarchs - just for SoFI?
Edit: 23 land seems excessive alongside 3 Birds, 4 Vials and 2 Wayfarers. Obviously 23 didn't keep you from winning, but don't you think 22 might the correct amount?
birds let block delvers and tombstalkers, also they deliver equipments past blockers. Sometimes it lets you not lose against fast delver or win on a spot just with a BoP and sword. I am convinced that this is more important than some additional damage dealt with exalted from hierarchs. I won against DnT with bird wielding jitte with one counter, when there was Thalia, Mystic and jitte under opponent's control. As a bonus I can name noble hierarch with revoker in mirror match.
23rd land is Dark Depths, which occupies a spell slot. 22 mana lands is thoroughly tested and is optimal for me in the current build.


Congrats on your finish,

Few interesting questions (can be a hint to article which are you writing):

- Singleton rishadan port - is 6th off-color land gives enough value for its cost of destabilize your color mana - specially when your vial wasn't on opening hand ?
- how Eladamri's Call as GSZ substitute for vial build was working for you ?
- single crop rotation - I understand that it powerup your DD-Sage plan did it matter in your plays ?
- Surgical Exctraction / Oozes - you didn't face any gy-based decks - with crop rotation did you would replace 1 Surgical for Bojuka ?
- 3 Revokers MD and 2 more Pithing Needle on sb - that's quite a lot - how it was in practice ?
- 3 Miracles in Swiss - thats very though MU for Maverick specially Vial build - from perspective on those matches what would you change MD/SB ?
- in top you faced two D&T - looks like meta was very focused on Vial decks, you said that your strategy was take off vials and name them with revokers - your sb didn't contain more removal which is the key in creature-centric mirrors how you deal with turn 1 mom - keeping hands with StP, like vs Goblins ?

Good luck with writing I will link the article in primer (probably should also update it with few recent lists based on last tournaments)

Thanks a lot! Those are some interesting questions.

- actually it's 7th - on turn1 Gaea's cradle doesn't give mana either. But for me it's optimal. In M@verick's list from BoM it was 6/22, where two lands are Cavern of Souls, which sometimes miss the next needed creature type.
- Call is better than Zenith here for 3 major reasons: it searches for not just a green creature, it searches what you can currently put with aether vial, and it's instant, meaning it's much better in responce to show and tell at least. It is sided in when the game is around my particular creatures and it is completely unpredictable. You can call for Teeg and put it into the battlefield from vial in responce to a miracle trigger, for example. Call searches for an instant answer unlike zenith, which is more like a 1 each additional green creature.
- I think I would not. While oozes serve as a universal anti BGx and graveyard strategy hate, surgicals are sided in mainly against punishing fires, combo decks and miracles (when they don't play RiP against me) and can give a more various effect. Bojuka bog is a 1 timer and too clunky for me today. When I extract something I prefer to be sure my opponent doesn't topdeck another copy in future. Also sometimes it's very useful to shuffle their topdeck away. So it's not all about anti graveyard..
- in my tests revokers were always rocking in two most difficult matches - miracles and jund. They have only two disadvantages - 2 in manacost and being a subject for a creature removal. I had 2 slots in my SB and couldn't decide whether I put chokes there or mirran crusaders or smth else. Then I realised I could fix both matches with pithing needles. As a bonus they are awesome against grim lavamancers, the most deadly t1 creature against me. I didn't encounter jund this time, but played 3 times against miracles, and needles made a huge contribution to my victories.
- Though miracles is still a very difficult match up, I'd like to play well enough against other match ups too, so I think I would not change anything. But indeed, there can be done more. Krosan grip would be better than harmonic sliver and 1 or 2 surgical extractions might be changed into chokes. I think, miracles match up would be around 70% after sb in this case. But in a big tournament you can face anything, so I would not make my sb so narrow. Perhaps, it's easier to pick up another deck to fight miracles, isn't it?
- I was preparing for a more midrange/control/combo metagame, so I didn't put additional removal into sb intentionally. Against DnT my hope was to get early equipment online or at least play revoker/needle naming mother of runes. I play only 3 of my own mothers and 2 sylvan safekeeper, so it would not hirt me that much. Also I knew, no one was ready for the Dark Depths combo so it always was my secret tech, especially against non-white decks.



It seems like Dark Depths did quite a bit of work for you. When did you normally get it online?

I'm also suprised that you only run one SFM. Vial Maverick is normally more equipment-centric to compensate for the lack of GSZ.
I always play careful with the combo, as it takes lots of my resources in case of a fail, so I try not to blind play into it. Usually it is assembled with an active knight when there are no wastelands on the horizon and mom/safekeeper can protect it from a possible StP. So it is more about a perfect moment than an AS SOON AS POSSIBLE strike. I had some best case scenarios on turn 5 I think during Ovino. Anyway, it is always faster, even with time for assebling the combo, than it would take through an old school beating with a knight, especially when they can have infinite blockers with Young Pyromancer these days.

Stoneforge is not as good as it was some time ago, so I decided to lower it's count. There are too much stifles, lavamancers (grixis) and abrupt decays, together with sb Wear/tear, smash to smithereens and ancient grudge these days. Partly it was changed into dark depths+crop rotation and oozes to help me with most problematic matches. On the other hand I left a minimum package, which mainly serves as an anti tribal hate and an additional card advantage in grindy situations. I don't think GSZ can be compensated by Stoneforge mystic. GSZ mainly makes the deck more consistent overall and helps to get early Teeg/ooze online, while SFM serves as an additional game plan of assembling a nearly unanswerable robot + always helps in a tribal/control meta.


No maze of ith? Is that standard in vial builds?

no place for maze unfortunately, even with crop rotation. Also all decks that I want to have maze against play wasteland.


I am glad you did such a good job. Congratulations on your finish, Door.
You won ANT 2-0 twice, wow!

Birds of paradise is undervalued (even more if it is signed :P). It´s a beast carryng a SOFI.

There is a common belief that GW can´t beat miracles. That not happens to GW vial, at least in my experience. I dont know Ilya´s deck, which have a fast clock with DD, but I main 2 gaddock very hardly countereable thanks to vial and caverns, and protected with mothers and safekeepers. Stoneforge is also a house, and with equipments in battlefield, all creatures become killing machines.

I am surprised that Ilya just play one stoneforge. ¿what about oozes? ¿did they work well?
I have never thought about siding out aether vial agaisnt DnT. But I will consider in the future.

Thanks, Luis! Oozes served their role against Grixis and ANT, though they are mainly against Jund, but I'm happy I did not encounter it. The problem with SFM is that they are always much worse after SB. So I decided to lower their count. Against DnT I sided out 3 Thalia, 2/4 Vials (depending on who was playing first), 0-2 oozes, 0-1 crop and DD (depending on how aware of it was the opponent) and put in 2 oblivion ring, 1 sliver, 1 grip, 2 pithing needle, 1 e-call. I think DnT is more vial-dependent than merfolks and goblins, and without vials it is a very-very slow hate deck, while maverick plays easily with only lands and birds.


Congratulations door, I’m really happy you did great with Vial Maverick + DD combo, my favorite deck!
Your rework of the list is extremely interesting, love your land toolbox. Only question, why two basic plains?
Thank you! I have more white than green t1 plays, besides it is much more important against delver decks to be able to cast StP and have less forests to play around Submerge, plus wayfarer likes white mana.

[ThediscoPower]

I had a quick question for you Door. Why did you go Sword of fire and Ice over the other options (notably, Sword of light and shadow or Sword of feast and Famine)? Is there a specific reason or do you think the sword of fire and ice is just the better sword, overall?

[KobeBryan]

How is maverick surviving in this meta? There's so much red around with punishing fire, pyroclasm, and rough/tumble.

Curious as to what I can do to help the bant list.

[litenkatt]

@door

Congrats!

Questions:

How was Garruk Relentless?
How was Crop Rotation?

Would you make any changes to the deck now?

[Barook]

Since Maverick kinda sucks in the current MTGO meta, I'm going to brew and test some G/W stuff on Cockatrice:

- Elvish Spirit Guide: The general problem of our hatebears in the combo match-up is often that they come into play too late. ESG might help here (and helps against Blood Moon, too). The card disadvantage is probably going to be the bane of the card, but who knows until it's actually tested?
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary: Sigarda on T3? Sounds hilarious! Having another fetchable, broken accelerant aside from Cradle certainly has potential and is the stone-cold fucking nuts with Quirion Ranger/Scryb Ranger. Already had a game where I was able to cast a Batterskull (:6: due to Thalia) and Sigarda on the same turn, despite being stuck on 3 Savannah +1 Hierarch the entire game. Also one of the reasons why I'm trying out Garruk Relentless.
- Sigarda: An absolutely game-winning bomb. Hopefully even easier to power out with Rofellos.
- Garruk Relentless: Easier to cast with all the green mana accelerants than Elspeth (although I might slam her somewhere into my 75 again for more value). Has also synergy with Master of the Wild Hunt, although that synergy is proably hardly going to matter.

Sideboard:
- Sylvan Safekeeper: Sometimes good, sometimes terrible. He's needed in certain match-ups, but blows in others. He might fit better into the sideboard, but needs to stick around somewhere in the 75 to keep your key cards alive.
- Cold-Eyed Selkie: Tech from Sunyveil. Between Exalted triggers and Jitte, it's an absolute must kill for all Islands players. If it can stick around, it takes the game over quickly. An unblockable beater who not only beats down for 5-6 damage, but also draws 5-6 cards a turn is nightmare for player on the other side of the table.

[door]

I had a quick question for you Door. Why did you go Sword of fire and Ice over the other options (notably, Sword of light and shadow or Sword of feast and Famine)? Is there a specific reason or do you think the sword of fire and ice is just the better sword, overall?

I left a small mystic package in my list basically for additional card advantage in control match ups and as a strategy against tribal decks. In these cases sword of fire and ice serves me in the best way. Additionally it is good against the popular young pyromancer decks.



How was Garruk Relentless?
How was Crop Rotation?
Would you make any changes to the deck now?
As long as the metagame does not shift, I wouldn't change anything.
Albeit I rarely saw Garruk in my hand that day, he was very good. I resolved it only in couple of games, but it won me those games.
Crop rotation is mostly for a faster comboing off, and against any deck it is always a big surprise. I like it in my list.

[SansSerif]

@ door

Congratulations on your finish! And it's great to read your thoughts and insight behind your card choices.

You didn't play against any of the S&T based combo decks (Sneak and Show or Omni-tell). How do you feel about these matchups? and could you go over your boarding strategy?

[blackdiamonds]

I'm playing in a large tournament this weekend where I expect a lot of combo ( Storm, omni, sneak n show, elves) rug delver, punishing jund,some esper blade I have this list and wanted some input on it

4 savanna
4 windswept Heath
1 verdent
2 forest
1 plains
4 wasteland
1 dryad arbor
1 horizon canopy
2 cavern of souls
1 maze of ith
1 karakas
1 geaa cradle

1 sylvan library
4 green sun
2 jitte
4 swords to plowshare

4 noble
4 mom
4 knight
4 Thalia
1 teeg
2 pridemage
2 aven mind censor
1 scryb ranger
2 revoker
2 scavenging ooze
1 sylvan safekeeper

SB: 3 oring
4 canonist
2 path
2 rip 3 choke( maybe Armageddon?)
1 flex (bog, harmonic sliver,angel of dispar,linvala

[Barook]

I'm playing in a large tournament this weekend where I expect a lot of combo ( Storm, omni, sneak n show, elves) rug delver, punishing jund,some esper blade I have this list and wanted some input on it
I wouldn't be too keen to run Maverick in such a meta. Those combo match-ups are mostly terrible (Storm when they win the dice roll, Omni and Elves are horrible, Sneak and Show is ok unless they get one of those nut hands) and Punishing Jund is going to ruin you as well. You have been warned.

2 Cavern of Souls seems excessive, especially if you want to to cast stuff like Teeg or Pridemage. Maybe you should run another fetch instead.

You're quite heavy on combo, so I would also recommend a second Teeg in the MD.

Since you run Cradle, I would try to fit in a Sigarda as well. She's a huge bomb and if you're up against DRS, KotR isn't that hot as GSZ target.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of Bog in the sideboard.

4 Canonists and 3 O-Rings in the board seem excessive. I would cut two Canonists and at least one O-Ring for 2 E-Tutors and a Tormod's Crypt.

[slikwilly]

I wouldn't be too keen to run Maverick in such a meta. Those combo match-ups are mostly terrible (Storm when they win the dice roll, Omni and Elves are horrible, Sneak and Show is ok unless they get one of those nut hands) and Punishing Jund is going to ruin you as well. You have been warned.

I took Mav to Cleveland this weekend and my first 4 rounds were Lands w/ P-Fire, Punishing Jund, Punishing Nic Fit, and Goblins. It was like my worst nightmare realized.

[klaus]

Someone posted somewhere he did some initial testing with a full playset of Elvish Spirit Guide some time ago.
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ai/69.jpg

Maybe it's just me being impatient, but against quite a few archetypes out there Maverick feels to slow. So I played about 20 games with ESG and came to the conclusion that she deserves further testing.
Enabling turn_1 Thalias, SFMs, Gaddocks, Canonists, Vial+MoR, Safekeeper+Wayfarer, Turn 1 Bird+Mother-->turn 2 protected KotR, etc. felt actually quite powerful. Needless to mention her bear body is underwhelming, which is why I recommend maxing out on SFMs and thus increasing the chance to be able to pimp her via equipment if you draw her in the mid/late game.

Has anyone given her a spin? What were your findings?

[Telkku]

Someone posted somewhere he did some initial testing with a full playset of Elvish Spirit Guide some time ago.

Maybe it's just me being impatient, but against quite a few archetypes out there Maverick feels to slow. So I played about 20 games with ESG and came to the conclusion that she deserves further testing.
Enabling turn_1 Thalias, SFMs, Gaddocks, Canonists, Vial+MoR, Safekeeper+Wayfarer, Turn 1 Bird+Mother-->turn 2 protected KotR, etc. felt actually quite powerful. Needless to mention her bear body is underwhelming, which is why I recommend maxing out on SFMs and thus increasing the chance to be able to pimp her via equipment if you draw her in the mid/late game.

Has anyone given her a spin? What were your findings?

You are just telling the best case scenarios and i see only the bad ones. It is one time "consumable" mana source which means you got 1 card less than your opponent and please dont talk about its body, vanilla 2/2.. Imagine you use this to cast 2nd turn KotR and it gets fowed or dazed, you are royally screwed. Against aggro decks the card advantage is the key, not the fact that you have something fast in the table. I mean compare this to a BoB, well im not even gonna do it.. And as for the early hate against combo decks, if you play 1st turn hatebear with this it again means that you have 1 card less and it couldve been another hatebear and in my experience usually how i win combos is to have either turn 1 discard followed by hatebear or 2 x hatebears. Cause they can easily kill 1 hatebear.

[klaus]

You are just telling the best case scenarios and i see only the bad ones. It is one time "consumable" mana source which means you got 1 card less than your opponent and please dont talk about its body, vanilla 2/2..
You make it look like a bad Lotus Petal, while its vanilla body can indeed become a threat when equipped. As I mentioned before, ideally the SFM count would have to be upped +1/+2 to pimp those midgame 2/2ers more reliably.


Imagine you use this to cast 2nd turn KotR and it gets fowed or dazed, you are royally screwed.
It's funny how you bring up Daze as a counter argument, since ESG is awesome at dodging these.


Against aggro decks the card advantage is the key, not the fact that you have something fast in the table.
Being able to counter strike your Aggro opponent with a Jitted critter one turn earlier can actually make the difference. You have to acknowledge that the MtG cosm is not as black and white as you want to make it appear. Maverick is a super flexible deck and can adjust to the game better than many archetypes.


And as for the early hate against combo decks, if you play 1st turn hatebear with this it again means that you have 1 card less and it couldve been another hatebear and in my experience usually how i win combos is to have either turn 1 discard followed by hatebear or 2 x hatebears. Cause they can easily kill 1 hatebear.
Being able to disrupt your Combo opponent via discard on turn is beneficial, however I had a straight GW list in mind when posting my thoughts on ESG - my bad: should have specified. One of the main reasons I started testing ESG is that hating combo on turn 2 (especially when on the draw) can be too late.

[Barook]

You are just telling the best case scenarios and i see only the bad ones. It is one time "consumable" mana source which means you got 1 card less than your opponent and please dont talk about its body, vanilla 2/2.. Imagine you use this to cast 2nd turn KotR and it gets fowed or dazed, you are royally screwed. Against aggro decks the card advantage is the key, not the fact that you have something fast in the table. I mean compare this to a BoB, well im not even gonna do it.. And as for the early hate against combo decks, if you play 1st turn hatebear with this it again means that you have 1 card less and it couldve been another hatebear and in my experience usually how i win combos is to have either turn 1 discard followed by hatebear or 2 x hatebears. Cause they can easily kill 1 hatebear.
Let's be realistic here:

ESG is only worth testing in pure GW since combo can stomp it on the play before it can get any hatebear online. And that happens quite alot. Since GW Maverick has no access to T1 discard, it might a possible workaround, even if it isn't ideal.

Of course it's an underwhelming draw later on, but the main problem I could see with it is the card disadvantage.

As far as running into Daze is concerned, if you misplay it like that, you deserve to lose. It actually counters Daze if played correctly.

In the end, ESG might not be worth it, but testing can't hurt, can it?

PS:
On a not so serious note if one wants to be flashy: Chancellor of the Tangle + Fauna Shamans for hilarity. Makes me wish SotF wasn't banned.

[ironclad8690]

Went 3-3 at the Gpt in La. Beat dredge, maverick, and esper blade. Lost to tin fins, painters servant, and goblins

[Koby]

I'm heavily leaning back to Maverick in recent weeks. Part of it is because I'm sick of these motherfucking Delvers messin up my tournaments. Have y'all seen tge top 16 from Milwaukee? Six Delver decks in the T9-16. Ridiculous!

What has been people's impressions with the black splashed Maverick for DRS?
Has Thoughtseize proved useful vs Combo? Does it matter vs Control?
How shaky has the mana base been?
Which Planeswalker is the best in the main? Which planeswalkers have been best post board? One or two?
Has reliance on KotR been sidelined?
Is RIP worth including if it shuts off Knight and DRS?

[blackdiamonds]

I went 4-2 at Jupiter I think I played pretty well I like the list and will tune it for GP DC

4 savannah
4 windswept Heath
2 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
1 plains
1 cavern
1 horizon canopy
1 maze of ith
1 gaeas cradle
2 forest
1 karakas

1 elspeth knight errent
4 swords
4 gsz
1 sylvan
1 jitte
1 batter skull
1 sword of fire and ice

4 noble
4 knight
4 mom
4 Thalia
2 sfm
1 sigarda
1 teeg
2 pridemage
1 scryb ranger
2 ooze

SB
2 enlighten tutor
1 oring
1 angel of dispar
1 canonist
1 dragons claw
1 harmonic sliver
1 crypt
1 rip
1 linvala
1 thorn of amathyst
1 revoker
1 jitte
1 graffdiggets cage
1 path


R1 mana less dredge 2-0
R2 maverick 0-2
R3 pyromancer opposition 2-1
R4 maverick 2-0
R5 TES 0-2
R6 TES 2-0(

Over all is cut it to 61 and put more anti storm cards in SB

[Barook]

Since the MODO metagame still sucks for Maverick, I'm currently experimenting with a modified list of Fabian Görzgen's GP list:

4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Grove of the Burnwillows

4 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Punishing Fire
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 2 Krosan Grip

PF is for fighting off Jund, BUG Shardless and Planeswalkers. Debateable - could be and Abrupt Decay/Bob package as well since GWb would have a more stable mana base.

Double Teeg + third in the board is for Miracles and various combo decks. Safekeeper is there to seal the deal vs. Miracles and other control decks.

Elspeth and Garruk are for the fair match-ups like Jund, BUG and Miracles. Xenagos in the board might be interesting, too, or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad if I go for GWb.

Needle over Revoker because creature removal sucks, especially against Miracles.

Grafdigger's Cage is against GY decks and Elves.

Grip against Miracles and other stuff you're going to hate to see, like Painter. Has been pretty good so far.

Extraction against PF, super-fast GY decks and random combo.

I'm not sold on Stony Silence and E-Plague in the board yet and need to see them in action first to make a verdict on them. I'm also not really comfortable with the lack of fast anti-storm answers and MD Bog is debateable.


I'm heavily leaning back to Maverick in recent weeks. Part of it is because I'm sick of these motherfucking Delvers messin up my tournaments. Have y'all seen tge top 16 from Milwaukee? Six Delver decks in the T9-16. Ridiculous!

What has been people's impressions with the black splashed Maverick for DRS?
Has Thoughtseize proved useful vs Combo? Does it matter vs Control?
How shaky has the mana base been?
Which Planeswalker is the best in the main? Which planeswalkers have been best post board? One or two?
Has reliance on KotR been sidelined?
Is RIP worth including if it shuts off Knight and DRS?
Personally, I like the black splash. DRS provides lots of utility and T1 discard is pretty relevant vs combo.

The manabase is pretty stable.

Can't really answer the PW question since I only recently bought a Garruk.

You can't rely on KotR as your main threat anymore since RiP and especially DRS makes her his bitch. RiP also hurts, so including it yourself is a bad idea. I like a 3/2 split between KotR and Ooze as main threats with Sigarda as GSZ target (totally doable since the GWb build can afford to run Cradle).

[barcode]

I'm heavily leaning back to Maverick in recent weeks. Part of it is because I'm sick of these motherfucking Delvers messin up my tournaments. Have y'all seen tge top 16 from Milwaukee? Six Delver decks in the T9-16. Ridiculous!

What has been people's impressions with the black splashed Maverick for DRS?
Has Thoughtseize proved useful vs Combo? Does it matter vs Control?
How shaky has the mana base been?
Which Planeswalker is the best in the main? Which planeswalkers have been best post board? One or two?
Has reliance on KotR been sidelined?
Is RIP worth including if it shuts off Knight and DRS?

I sleeved up a GWb list with bobs and deathrites and found the mana wanting. There's a few turn 1 plays that you want to make with a turn 2 followup:

Turn 1 mom, mana dork, GSZ
Turn 2 bob, thalia, teeg, mana dork (if the turn 1 play was mom)

All of this while being aware of Wasteland (and now blood moon, I guess). Playing Scrubland is really bad even though it enables turn 1 mom and turn 2 bob but it doesn't cast any green spells, which the deck is based around. In the same vein, Bayou can't cast Mom on turn 1.

If your metagame has a minimal number of wastelands and blood moons then you can probably afford to be greedy. I question whether or not black is REALLY needed. Why not another Sylvan Library or another way to get card advantage such as with Elspeth or little Garruk?

I'm back to my usual GW(u) build.

[Goin Aggro]

I'm heavily leaning back to Maverick in recent weeks. Part of it is because I'm sick of these motherfucking Delvers messin up my tournaments. Have y'all seen tge top 16 from Milwaukee? Six Delver decks in the T9-16. Ridiculous!

What has been people's impressions with the black splashed Maverick for DRS?
Has Thoughtseize proved useful vs Combo? Does it matter vs Control?
How shaky has the mana base been?
Which Planeswalker is the best in the main? Which planeswalkers have been best post board? One or two?
Has reliance on KotR been sidelined?
Is RIP worth including if it shuts off Knight and DRS?

I'm meh on the black splash for DRS. While it gives you additional reach, lifegain, and mild mana stability, I've always preferred a more stable initial manabase versus the reach/answers that access to another color gives you. That said, I haven't tested extensively with a solid black splash, but I feel like a tuned G/W list is just as good against combo as a G/W/B list would be.

Elspeth is best in the main for straight G/W. Relentless is probably better for trip-color builds. I've considered boarding a second elspeth, but one feels like enough for most metas. I've toyed around with Primal Hunter out of the board in G/W with Cradle, and he's such a house. If you're anywhere close to an even board, he'll either stall and help you stabilize puking out 3/3's, or he'll let you bury them in card advantage if you have a huge knight or ooze out. I think having access to two postboard is good for the control/midrange matchups. Primal Hunter especially since his beasts survive Punishing against Jund, Shardless against BUG, and will trade for most creatures that you will encounter.

I think KoTR is still a really good card, but she's not the huge beatstick she used to be. I wouldn't count on finishing games with a 10/10+ knight smashing through with the same regularity as in the pre-DRS/RiP era. She's a lot more useful for utility, and I think ooze is one of the deck's main beatsticks now, as he multitasks shutting of DRS/shrinking goyfs while getting huge at the same time.

RiP is totally worth it. Opposing DRS can be a huge problem for a deck with only 4-5 point removal spells, and being able to shut them off with additional splash hate against some of the format's combo decks (Reanimator, Fins, Dredge, Storm) and fair decks (RUG/Aggro Loam/Jund/Shardless) is enormous. If you really are pressed for spots while boarding, you can side out knights in favor of RiPs, but I don't think there's anything wrong with having both.

[Barook]

I'm meh on the black splash for DRS. While it gives you additional reach, lifegain, and mild mana stability, I've always preferred a more stable initial manabase versus the reach/answers that access to another color gives you. That said, I haven't tested extensively with a solid black splash, but I feel like a tuned G/W list is just as good against combo as a G/W/B list would be.
To be fair, you don't run a black splash because DRS is a funny guy, but because most fast combo will assrape you on T2 if they win the dice roll, hence the need of T1 discard because your T2 bears won't matter if you're already dead.

I'm interested how exactly you plan to survive that with GW, except hoping for a combo-light meta or winning the dice roll. Do you run Leyline of Sanctity or Mindbreak Trap in the board?

RiP works in KotR-light builds, but Ooze also gets hit by it, so calling it the main beatstick now is a bit of overstatement. There are still lots of creature-light decks out there and some just don't put anything into the GY to feed it, like Miracles.

[bumgun]

I'm heavily leaning back to Maverick in recent weeks. Part of it is because I'm sick of these motherfucking Delvers messin up my tournaments. Have y'all seen tge top 16 from Milwaukee? Six Delver decks in the T9-16. Ridiculous!

What has been people's impressions with the black splashed Maverick for DRS?
Has Thoughtseize proved useful vs Combo? Does it matter vs Control?
How shaky has the mana base been?
Which Planeswalker is the best in the main? Which planeswalkers have been best post board? One or two?
Has reliance on KotR been sidelined?
Is RIP worth including if it shuts off Knight and DRS?

The black splash has been working pretty great for me so far. The reach of DRS, options of Abrupt Decay or Thoughtseize MB, and having access to more SB hate like Engineered Plague and Zealous Persecution in the SB have all proven useful so far. Having a lower amount of X/1s to soften the Golgari Charm blowout is relevant as well. Even though DRS blocking Lackey is a meme at this point, Goblins has been becoming more popular in recent months.

Thoughtseize definitely feels important to live long enough to get hatebears online. As far as control goes, I've only brought them in to replace some of the dead cards and it's been working pretty well. Mostly only applies to Miracles though.

Only mana problems I've ran into is not being able to use DRS for ramping. Some combination of not having fetches in hand, them holding up a fetch until my EOT, quickly running out of lands, or even opposing DRS have been the most common scenarios.

My 75 now only has 1 and it's a Garruk Relentless in the side. Fits the mana base better, kills problematic creatures like Baleful Strix or Painter's Servant, defends itself through the token army better, shuts down most midrange decks with the flipped token army, and can tutor up finishers to end the grindy games. Jumping Knights just isn't enough for me as long as Strix is everywhere.

I've found KOTR to be even more important as far as sending creatures into battle goes. Dropping my exalted creatures from 6 to 3 has made my bears become a lot less intimidating.

RIP just doesn't feel as necessary with DRS being able to nail an important card in the same timeframe. Ooze and Bojuka Bog/Crypt are enough against decks like Loam, Punishing Jund, and RUG Delver.

[klaus]

I have done some semi-extensive testing with Elvis Spirit Guide (about 50 games) over the past week or so.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/56269db2f4aec6785c32e2cb773509d2/tumblr_musbhqYVW11slriqjo1_400.jpg

..and I've fallen madly in love with her. I ain't shittin ya: we're beyond dating at this point - yes, you heard me right: she proposed and I said yes.
At first I was like: I hate losing to Oops-I-Win.decs and included her to power out hate bears on turn 1, which indeed worked out nicely, so we went for dinner quite frequently and hung out a bit more and soon I realized she's more than just a fling. Turns out T1 Thalia is a beast against numerous archetypes, gotta love the synergy with Wayfarer too and going to town with Jitte/SoFI one full turn earlier is nothing to sneeze at - trust me, the look on my opponents' faces was priceless everytime an equipped dude comes rushing in (pun intended) - Elvis helped me become the beatdown against archetypes against whom GW Maverick commonly plays the control part.
It's true, the Faerie Queen of Rock'n'Roll means card disadvantage, however Maverick can easily get away with that due to the sheer amount of C/A spells: SFM, Revoker, SoFI, Jitte, Wayfarer, KotR, Mother/Safekeeper (oftentimes 2for1s), and Gaddock.
As suggested earlier I upped the SFM count to employ a higher equipment density making up for her lameness after the early game.
Here's my current list for reference:

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mother of Runes
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Birds of Paradise

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial

4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths

2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 SoLaS

[thefreakaccident]

I've actually tested something similar, and it works out quite nicely. At the very least the guides pick up equipment.

[litenkatt]

@klaus what's the reason you dont run any Scavenging Oozes? I saw another similar list that top 8'd that too didn't have any Oozes MB nor SB. How do you win against graveyard decks?

[thefreakaccident]

He has 6 ways to tutor for the bog in the mainboard (wayfarer and knight), as well as the extractions in the side. The coolest thing about his particular build is that it forgoes the zenith garbage all-together.

<3 you Klaus, finally someone that tests things to determine whether or not they like them, as opposed to just doing whatever some other guys says.

I had actually cut revokers to keep zeniths in, although since you cut arbor, the card seems to get worse and worse. I think I actually like revokers and the second canopy over an arbor and the zeniths.

[klaus]

He has 6 ways to tutor for the bog in the mainboard (wayfarer and knight), as well as the extractions in the side. The coolest thing about his particular build is that it forgoes the zenith garbage all-together.
<3 you Klaus, finally someone that tests things to determine whether or not they like them, as opposed to just doing whatever some other guys says.
I had actually cut revokers to keep zeniths in, although since you cut arbor, the card seems to get worse and worse. I think I actually like revokers and the second canopy over an arbor and the zeniths. How I evaluate Zenith:
* for me it comes down to tempo VS. versatiliy
* and Zenith does not appear suitable for the format's current tempo
* I'm aware T1 Zenith into Arbor is a decent play, and I really appreciate the card's flavor
* but being able to pump out critters a turn earlier (ESG is also a concession to that) to keep up with your Aggro/Combo opponent is essential
* being more susceptible to Daze/Pierce sucks aswell
* Maverick is pretty redundant and versatile already --> most creatures advance your situation anyway
* the dyssynergy with Gaddock and Thalia puts the final nail in the coffin imo



@klaus what's the reason you dont run any Scavenging Oozes? I saw another similar list that top 8'd that too didn't have any Oozes MB nor SB. How do you win against graveyard decks?
Basically what thefreakaccident said, plus w/o Zeniths playing 1 in the MD becomes kind of random, while two seems too many.

[Tombstalker]

Here's my current list for reference:

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mother of Runes
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Birds of Paradise

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial

4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths

2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 SoLaS

Excellent list! Did you collaborate with M@verick when you designed it?

Also a few more questions:

-SoFaI over batterskull and no BS in the 75.. can you elaborate?

-weathered wayfarer I just dont get how hes that good to include considering the deck runs mana dudes and crop rotation exists. Im assuming you didnt like crop rotation due to its additional cost maybe?

-4 spot removal is historical but lately weve seen an increase pretty much across the specrum to handle the midranged decks. If you were to bring in more removal what would it be and why? Also have you found 4 to be enough?

-lasty is the 1-of scryb ranger worthwhile anymore? Without a tutor or functional overlap it seems maybe a batterskull or a plainswalker (or ooze) for late game would have more impact.

[klaus]

Excellent list! Did you collaborate with M@verick when you designed it?
Hey Tombstalker, thx for your feedback! I used Door's list as a foundation to build on - Door did the same with M@verick's design, whom I've played online once in a while. Cool guy. So you could say my latest variation is M@verick's grand brainchild. :smile:


-SoFaI over batterskull and no BS in the 75.. can you elaborate?
I've been playing Batterskull in DnT lists for a while, but it never impressed me. SoFaI is very different indeed: creates C/A, can act as removal and protects your most valuable guy against Bolts. Though I admit it's gravier the more fliers you run - I'll have to think about this.


-weathered wayfarer I just dont get how hes that good to include considering the deck runs mana dudes and crop rotation exists. Im assuming you didnt like crop rotation due to its additional cost maybe?
Crop Rotation is superb and I included it for the most part of my testing. Finding Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Gaea's Cradle, or help assemble "Dark Stage" is nothing to sneeze at. Atm I run the second Pridemage instead, trying to have more MD answers for problematic enchantments/artifacts. Especially since I'm not using any Zeniths. Sounds like you haven't tested Wayfarer :cool: alongside Vial (allowing you to operate on 1-2 land) he'll just find 4 Wasteland and destroy any greedy mana base opponent (happens all the time) plus he's king at assembling Dark Stage.


-4 spot removal is historical but lately weve seen an increase pretty much across the specrum to handle the midranged decks. If you were to bring in more removal what would it be and why? Also have you found 4 to be enough?
Against midrange I would probably add another SB Jitte before anything along the lines of Sunlace.


-lasty is the 1-of scryb ranger worthwhile anymore? Without a tutor or functional overlap it seems maybe a batterskull or a plainswalker (or ooze) for late game would have more impact.
You are right about 1ofs appearing random in non-Zenith versions. However, I'm actually almost always happy to see her, since she's mad versatile: advances your mana resources, is awesome at carrying equipment, allows for double activations of MoR and KotR, untaps blockers etc., holds off Delvers, can't be bounced by Jace - the list goes on. With that powerful Merfolk guy entering the scene Scryb becomes even more relevant imo.

[Tombstalker]

Hey Tombstalker, thx for your feedback! I used Door's list as a foundation to build upon - Door did the same with M@verick's design, whom I've played online once in a while. Cool guy. So you could say my latest variation is M@verick's grand brainchild.
I just went back and found his list, awesome innovations by both, well actually all 3 of you. I noticed Door doesnt run any batterskulls either but does have crop rotation in the main.

GSZ has seemed lacking lately so aether vial is very intriguing and refreshing.. That said what are your thoughts on a single GSZ as a virtual 2nd/5th copy of 1-of and thus also 4-of targets? It is still a tutor afterall and the only one that reccurs itself. Plus the main benny here would be deck space.


Sounds like you haven't tested Wayfarer alongside Vial (allowing you to operate on 1-2 land) he'll just find 4 Wasteland and destroy any greedy mana base opponent (happens all the time) plus he's king at assembling Dark Stage.
Your right but vials are gonna replace GSZ so might as well test wayfarer too.

I would think BS somewhere in the 75 is correct. Maybe not maindeck since some can disrupt it rather easy but against certain opponents it just puts the game out of reach. Its a tutorable baneslayer. I wonder how much better it could be in vial-mav with wayfarer to wreck manabases as you said and vial/mom to protect SFM until EoT?

Edit- almost forgot the craziest part.. props for testing out ESG man.

[klaus]

GSZ has seemed lacking lately so aether vial is very intriguing and refreshing.. That said what are your thoughts on a single GSZ as a virtual 2nd/5th copy of 1-of and thus also 4-of targets? It is still a tutor afterall and the only one that reccurs itself. Plus the main benny here would be deck space. I actually like that idea. A single GZS can't ever be random, and as a 1of it's very unlikely that it cloggs your hand early on. I could see it replacing my second Gaddock.


I would think BS somewhere in the 75 is correct. Maybe not maindeck since some can disrupt it rather easy but against certain opponents it just puts the game out of reach. Its a tutorable baneslayer. I wonder how much better it could be in vial-mav with wayfarer to wreck manabases as you said and vial/mom to protect SFM until EoT?
Ultimately BS is a meta call imo.

[Barook]

Interesting take on Vial Maverick. My problem with Vial Maverick is that it lacks the utility GSZ builds have along with a rather questionable clock since it tends to durdle around alot.

Even with Vial, I wouldn't completely abandon GSZ since it's too good to pass. 1-2 copies sounds about right for extra consistency.

Ooze isn't random. Hell, many builds run 2 copies along 4 GSZ because it is that good.

Scryb Ranger's pro blue is useless against the new Nemesis guy since it can completey ignore it (or anything else you have). What about Quirion Ranger as a cheaper, and thus, faster alternative? It can enable Wayfarer shenanigans as early as T2.

[Tombstalker]

Havent tried vial yet but I think you can still retain the utility of GSZ with only 1, maybe 2 copies. I agree on ooze, I think the 1st ooze might be better than the 4th knight.

Ranger doesnt stop nemesis but it cant stop ranger either, or most of maverick if a mom or safekeeper sticks. I really dont see the new kid shaking things up that badly since it needs equipment to race and pridemages answer that. I guess thats another shout out to retaining at least 1 zenith.

Edit- also nemesis' ass might look as good as merit lage's does but its FRONT sure doesnt! Lol

[klaus]

Interesting take on Vial Maverick. My problem with Vial Maverick is that it lacks the utility GSZ builds have along with a rather questionable clock since it tends to durdle around alot. You're right - there's quite a bit of durdling involved, including hate bear deployment that doesn't really help apply much pressure. However that's exactly when Dark Stage enters the scene. In my current testing I close between a third and a quarter of my games via Marit Lage. She's quite a powerhouse I must say.


Even with Vial, I wouldn't completely abandon GSZ since it's too good to pass. 1-2 copies sounds about right for extra consistency. Tombstalker pointed out the same thing and I'm actually happy to include 1-2 for my next rounds of testing.


Ooze isn't random. Hell, many builds run 2 copies along 4 GSZ because it is that good..
Soon as I have a miser GSZ, a miser Ooze seems legit.


Scryb Ranger's pro blue is useless against the new Nemesis guy since it can completey ignore it (or anything else you have). What about Quirion Ranger as a cheaper, and thus, faster alternative? It can enable Wayfarer shenanigans as early as T2.
You're of course right about that Nemesis guy. What I actually implied is that this dude might inspire more ex-Merfolk players to pick up their Fish and bring them to tourneys. Scryb is still decent at blocking the remaining 85% of their army. Quirion Ranger is a cool card, though in an SFM-heavy list I prefer Scryb due to her evasion.
--

PS: You were actually the one to initially bring up ESG - cheers for that! :wink:

[Tombstalker]

@ Klaus and anyone else using/used vials- have you tried 1 maybe 2 creatures with EtB removal abilities like say fiend hunter?

[ironclad8690]

Played in a knight-ware tournament on Sunday for duals.

End record was 3-3.

Played a similar list to mishimakaz (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/1262) (Jack Wang), with a few things changed in the main and side to taste. I really liked having 3 deathrite shamans in the maindeck, with 2 hierarchs for backup.

Round 1: Dredge
Game 1: I wasteland my own dryad arbor early to get rid of 3 bridges, and he goes to town with zombies and narcomoeba. I topdeck a singleton scavenging ooze at 1 life, and begin eating 3 creatures out of his yard, putting me just outside of narcomoeba range. He eventually has to scoop.
Game 2: He makes 8 zombies turn two. My turn 1 MoM isn't enough.
Game 3: Very long match, I bog him early and we go to turns. I am able to squeak just enough damage in on turn 5 to win the match. Very lucky games despite not seeing one of my 3 deathrites, which I was leaning heavily on.

1-0

Round 2: Maverick (Brandon Chang)
Game 1: I must say I am a fan of Brandons, he has been playing maverick for a long time. Needless to say, I make a couple errors game 1, and it is over quickly. He creams me with strong plays.
Game 2: I get early deathrites which keep his knights small. Just enough removal with the 2 abrupt decays out of the board to keep the way clear for my batterskull, and I take the game.
Game 3: He mulls and keeps a low lander. I keep him on Forest and Plains for the rest of the game while I beat in with knights and eat instants to clock him.

2-0

Round 3: Tin Fins (Jacob Kory)
Game 1: Jacob wins on turn 2 very easily. He storms me by drawing a ton of cards and tendrils me ftw.
Game 2: Early Thalia and wastelands keep me alive while he draws nothing.
Game 3: I almost keep a hand with no land, a thoughtseize, and a surgical extraction. I throw it back, get a hand with 0 hate but at least some lands, and proceed to lose.

2-1

Round 4: Imperial Painter
Game 1: He just grindstones me with a spellskite and a revoker on Qasali pridemage
Game 2: He moons me, and with my low basic count of 1 forest 1 plains, I get locked out of the game while he beats with 1/1s 2/2s and 2/1s.

2-2

Round 5: Esper Stoneblade
Game 1: I get a sweet curve of deathrite into knight into thrun. He can't deal with thrun+mom and exalted triggers and loses with a jace on board and 2 snapcasters.
Game 2: He only plays lands and STP while I am playing stoneforge into batterskull and he just scoops. He drew very poorly in both games and I really think deathrite is a star here, shutting off half of the value of lingering souls and snapcaster mage which are both very good cards in this matchup.

3-2

Round 6: Goblins
At this point I can still finish in the top 10 for a prize, so I decide to stick it out.

Game 1: An active jitte, huge knight, and mom out early, and I still manage to lose to a nearly endless stream of little green men. He and I both play very skillfully, but I just end up losing to Krenko with no way to remove him.
Game 2: I get an early batterskull, but he keeps me low on lands and Pyrokenesises me killing a sick mom, deathrite shaman, and my dryad arbor (land 3 of 3). I scoop after he sees 4 golbins on the ringleader flips, since he has a vial and 4 lands, while I have a deathrite shaman and 2 lands.

Overall, I had a hard time with the goblins matchup with the dark splash, even with more removal out of the board. Engineered Explosives would have been chill here.

3-3

I had a good time at least and got to gain some valuable tournament play against many great players. I am looking forward to taking maverick in some form or another (starting to lean towards aether vial) to SCG LA on November 3rd, so I will let you guys know how it goes!

[klaus]

@ Klaus and anyone else using/used vials- have you tried 1 maybe 2 creatures with EtB removal abilities like say fiend hunter?
Hey Tombstalker, coming from DnT, I've had Fiend Hunter on my radar from the beginning. I'm sure he pulls his weight, however my list has gotten pretty tight so that I wouldn't know what to cut atm.

[Tombstalker]

I like how fiend hunter can pack a sword or randomly take emrakul to school giving the deck 6 possible cards in hand against SnT (8 I suppose counting wayfarers). Plus its a 5th 3 drop meaning ticking vial up to 3 is a little better. Probably only ever a 1-of though especially now with the new kid [Unexpectedly Absent] being spoiled. Heheh I look forward to saying "jace has gone UA"..

I did get a chance to test wayfarer last night. The lil dude is much better than I expected especially with fetches, crop rotation and knight activations. Brutal for a 1 drop plus he has excellent synergy with vial. Hes almost like mom 5-6 as far as threat assessment goes..

[Koby]

I like how fiend hunter can pack a sword or randomly take emrakul to school giving the deck 6 possible cards in hand against SnT (8 I suppose counting wayfarers). Plus its a 5th 3 drop meaning ticking vial up to 3 is a little better. Probably only ever a 1-of though especially now with the new kid [Unexpectedly Absent] being spoiled. Heheh I look forward to saying "jace has gone UA"..

I did get a chance to test wayfarer last night. The lil dude is much better than I expected especially with fetches, crop rotation and knight activations. Brutal for a 1 drop plus he has excellent synergy with vial. Hes almost like mom 5-6 as far as threat assessment goes..

Under that logic, wouldn't it make sense to just play Mangara of Corondor? Older version of GW Vial (including Survival variants) ran Mangara with Quirion Ranger for abuse.

[Tombstalker]

I suppose it would, although mangara then wants flickerwisps and doesnt leave a body behind. IDK hunter was just a thought but im gonna try it out later on today maybe. UA might prove superior though.

On another note the vial version of mav has felt really focused on land abuse (or maybe its just how ive been playing it?). Anyway now im wondering if loam and/or an exploration type effect wouldnt be worth tinkering with to better abuse this aspect. Either way the single crop rotation has been pretty nuts so far. Love that card.

Edit- NM I just got the mangara/ranger interaction. Pretty sweet.

[Barook]

I'm going to test Klaus' list with these minor changes:

-1 KotR (4 is too many in a DRS-infested meta and GSZ "counts" as the 4th Knight)
-1 Teeg

+ 1 Scavening Ooze
+ 1 GSZ

Maybe I should cut something else for the second Teeg (maybe Thalia #4?), but I think Teeg #2 could be put into the board for the matches were you really need him.

I like how the DD combo can end certain durdle match-ups out of nowhere.

The interaction between the low mana/land count and ESG for the boosts when you need them is interesting.

[Tombstalker]

1 QPM would be a better cut than knight I think.

Also honestly I think safekeeper would be better in the board replaced with the 4th mom. It's been pretty terrible for me in this build. Again maybe it's my approach but between stage/depths and less lands + less reliance on lands and tutoring wasteland more often, lands are kinda scarce.

Safekeeper also doesn't let marit lage force through for lethal against chumps which I've found annoying a couple times already.

[klaus]

I'm going to test Klaus' list with these minor changes:

-1 KotR (4 is too many in a DRS-infested meta and GSZ "counts" as the 4th Knight)
-1 Teeg

+ 1 Scavening Ooze
+ 1 GSZ

Maybe I should cut something else for the second Teeg (maybe Thalia #4?), but I think Teeg #2 could be put into the board for the matches were you really need him.

I like how the DD combo can end certain durdle match-ups out of nowhere.

The interaction between the low mana/land count and ESG for the boosts when you need them is interesting.

:D +1 GSZ, +1 Ooze was my latest addition to the list above. As Tombstalker suggested QPM and Teeg were cut to make room - both of which remaining 1-ofs are tutorable.
Props for the lively discussion.
Have a sweet w/e!

[.Ix]

Is GSZ better than the Eladamri's Call that Door plays in the SB? Haven't played the Vial list much at this point, but it seems like a better fit. It fetches all creatures, not just the green ones, and we can actually wait for the opponent's play before we fetch and vial in the exact hatebear we need.

[kohulk]

@klaus

Count me in as an ESG lover. This card is actually good!!!! Being playtesting for two days now and has overperformed. Trade it for the spot of BoP as they both are mana accelerators. Also put a GSZ mainboard and added 1 scavenging ooze for tutoring. Elvis :tongue: was a great idea.

[klaus]

@klaus: Count me in as an ESG lover. This card is actually good!!!! Being playtesting for two days now and has overperformed. Trade it for the spot of BoP as they both are mana accelerators. Also put a GSZ mainboard and added 1 scavenging ooze for tutoring. Elvis :tongue: was a great idea.

Glad you enjoy the Queen of Rock'n' Roll as much as I do. Got to give the props to Barook though - he initially inspired me to give her a spin.

On a different note: with that Nemesis dude entering the scene, being able to develop your board as quickly as possible has become more essential than ever.
I just played a competent Merfolk player and he basically won whenever he landed one. Expect this guy to push StoneBlade over the top as well. Time to dust off those Manriki Gusaris.
"Tarif" should also be considered as a SB option - works smoothly against Reanimator, SnT and a few other fatty decks.
http://i.tcgplayer.com/2764.jpg

[Tombstalker]

Another possible option (if they havent buffed/equipped nemesis that is) might be marrow shards. Also hits some other annoying creatures and young P tokens and such. IDK maybe its a bit to janky.

[nedleeds]

Wing Shards

[Koby]

Another possible option (if they havent buffed/equipped nemesis that is) might be marrow shards. Also hits some other annoying creatures and young P tokens and such. IDK maybe its a bit to janky.



Sandstorm
Hail Storm
Caltrops

Norn's Annex

EDIT: derp...

[Megadeus]

Do people still not understand protection? Protection prevents damage so marrow Shards and stuff wouldnt work.

[nedleeds]

Pretty sure every tard who doesn't understand damage, protection from ________, and Trinisphere is currently on my ignore list, did somebody actually suggest Sandstorm?

[Megadeus]

Pretty sure every tard who doesn't understand damage, protection from ________, and Trinisphere is currently on my ignore list, did somebody actually suggest Sandstorm?

Marrow Shards actually. While I love Marrow Shards, it does not in fact do anything in this situation


It is kind of disappointing that this card even saw the light of day. The only thing that is really possibly viable is dark maverick playing edicts. Either that or maybe Elspeth just jumping 10/10 KOTRS over this bro.

[Tombstalker]

Yes of course my bad fuck me, didnt have the thinking cap on yet. No need to crucify.. jezus.

It was actually wing shards that got me searching for other alternatives but the free part made me glaze.

[nedleeds]

Wind Shards is a pretty solid fisting. Storm helps a little vs. permission. Only issue is G/W doesn't have much stuff to play on their turn to build a little storm.

HOLY LIGHT! AH! I think I'd play Zealous Persecution before an Edict effect if I were splashing a little black ... both are useless once a Merfolk deck gets a bunch of dudes down but Zealous has utility vs. Goblins, Death and Taxes, Elves, Empty, etc.

[Megadeus]

Yes of course my bad fuck me, didnt have the thinking cap on yet. No need to crucify.. jezus.

It was actually wing shards that got me searching for other alternatives but the free part made me glaze.

What would the ideal maverick answer be for this guy? I dont think you really want to be playing situational sacrifice effects in Maverick. Otherwise though, what can this deck play that isn't incredibly narrow? My only thought is to just race him. But of course he can block forever too, which means you need evasion. Which is either Elspeth, or Sword of F&I or B&M in stoneforge packages.

[nedleeds]

Sandstorm
Hail Storm
Caltrops

Norn's Annex

EDIT: derp...

Maverick deck that moats itself? Or humilifies itself? That's getting desperate.

[Hof]

CoP: Blue

[Koby]

Maverick deck that moats itself? Or humilifies itself? That's getting desperate.

"Creatures can't attack you or a planeswalker you control ..."

I think the only useful way to race the Brogenitus is lifelink. Cards like Batterskull (which omg have beaten shit-folk in the past), Sword of Light n Shadow, even Sword of Fire & Ice to give Maverick attackers evasion.

[Tombstalker]

Maverick deck that moats itself? Or humilifies itself? That's getting desperate.
Pretty sure Koby's suggestions were in jest in response to my derp.. boooooof ugh help me!! im takin' shots! (of cold meds that is hehe)


What would the ideal maverick answer be for this guy? I dont think you really want to be playing situational sacrifice effects in Maverick. Otherwise though, what can this deck play that isn't incredibly narrow? My only thought is to just race him. But of course he can block forever too, which means you need evasion. Which is either Elspeth, or Sword of F&I or B&M in stoneforge packages.
I think this is actually the most reasonable solution. The vial build can still throw down huge knights and mom gives evasion too.

[Megadeus]

Pretty sure Koby's suggestions were in jest in response to my derp.. boooooof ugh help me!! im takin' shots! (of cold meds that is hehe)


I think this is actually the most reasonable solution. The vial build can still throw down huge knights and mom gives evasion too.

Forgot about MoM. Fuck her. Works though. My buddy already runs a Sword of L&S in maverick, maybe if this gets big he will go with F&I.


Now for me to figure out how I win through it with Zoo...

[nedleeds]

"Creatures can't attack you or a planeswalker you control ..."

I think the only useful way to race the Brogenitus is lifelink. Cards like Batterskull (which omg have beaten shit-folk in the past), Sword of Light n Shadow, even Sword of Fire & Ice to give Maverick attackers evasion.

I was joking on your joke post of Normans Anus. That thing is a hundred mana and can't be cast with Teeg out.

Agree with SoFI to race this PODS.

[Machahiko]

If the card is so god damn good then just play 4x birds of paradise / 4 noble, few tundras or tropicals and play one yourself. You'll be able to play it one turn faster than your opponent, therefore you'll be winning cause you get to hit first!! The card is annoying, but we can't really tell yet whether should we start playing a full set of peacekeepers or just wait and see how popular the card will be.

[bruizar]

The card is actually pretty good with an Arena and 4 Knight of the Reliquaries.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Wind Shards is a pretty solid fisting. Storm helps a little vs. permission. Only issue is G/W doesn't have much stuff to play on their turn to build a little storm.

Otoh, unless the Dark Maverick started to pack Grave Pact, there's hardly any reason to build storm on Maverick's turn. At least considering Wing Shards.

[Barook]

The card is actually pretty good with an Arena and 4 Knight of the Reliquaries.
You could also just GSZ for Ulvenwald Tracker.

About Elvis Maverick:
What's its game plan against Punishing Jund? Elves also doesn't seem too stellar as a match-up.

[ThediscoPower]

You could also just GSZ for Ulvenwald Tracker.

pretty sure that doesn't work against the merfolk guy. You can't target it with a source you control, if my understanding of protection is correct.

Looking at how all the option to get it out of the table seem janky at best, I think we try to race it and pray that we get there before they do, either mom + knight or with equipments.

[Barook]

pretty sure that doesn't work against the merfolk guy. You can't target it with a source you control, if my understanding of protection is correct.

Looking at how all the option to get it out of the table seem janky at best, I think we try to race it and pray that we get there before they do, either mom + knight or with equipments.
Bruizar was talking about targeting your own Nemesis with Arena, which obviously works.

[Shawon]

Runed Halo and Teferi's Moat are additional (terrible) answers to The Nemesis.

[ThediscoPower]

Bruizar was talking about targeting your own Nemesis with Arena, which obviously works.

Ohh my bad i didn' t get that we were talking about our own nemesis.

[Fl0do]

I really like playing creature decks with a lot of on board tricks, so Maverick was my deck to play for the last two years (while switching and trying out a lot other decks in the meantime :D ). Though Maverick may not so well positioned in the current metagame as it was 1-2 years ago, but I'm always in for tweaking and trying different versions of the deck, because I (still) believe, that Maverick rewards the good and well prepared player.

My newest version features black, but first the list and then some words about it:

//Lands
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
//Creatures
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
//Other
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//Sideboard
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Golgari Charm
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Oblivion Ring

My main reason to play black is Abrupt Decay, because I'm a fan of this versatile, hard-to-stop removal spell. Also Deathrite Shaman is a strong addition to the deck, providing disruption, reach and acceleration in one card (Captn. Obv. ;) ).
Exalted is not that important, or better, not needed alongside 8 removal spells and 3 Stoneforge Mystics. Regarding these, I have to say, that I never was a fan of the Mystic in Maverick. Although it provides flexibilty and pressure, I mostly ran only 2 Umezawa's Jitte in the past.
My thoughts for playing now 3 of them were, that alongside 4 Mother of Runes and 1 Sylvan Safekeeper to protect the Mystic, I wanted a graveyard independent threat, because Knight of the Reliquary isn't the beatstick it used to be (but always involved in some sick turns tutoring up the lands you need). Unfortunately, I'm still not completely sold on having 3 Stoneforge Mystics, also Batterskull was a bit underwhelming in the games I played. I'm thinking of cutting 1 Mystic and the Batterskull to make some room for Planeswalkers, but I'm still not sure on that.
I also have to mention Scavenging Ooze, as this guy is just a beating at the moment, outplaying opposing Tarmogoyfs and Deathrite Shamans.

Due to having 8 removal spells in the maindeck, I'm fighting combo completely out of the sideboard, which is not the best plan, but I would say this is a sacrifice I'm willing to give for having a strong game one vs. a lot of decks.

Alongside 4 Thoughtseize I have 2 Ethersworn Canonist, 2 Thalia, 2 Surgical Extraction and 1 Gaddock Teeg + Oblivion Rings vs. S&T to fight the combo decks. Zealous Persecution and Golgari Charm are nice addition against Token fueled decks like Young Pyromancer.dec and Esper Blade, which are capable to overwhelm you pretty fast.

I'm testing the deck on Cockatrice at the moment (Woogerworks, Flodo) and the matchup vs. the different tempo decks is really good, you really have the removal to deal with their fast threats and afterwards you have the longer breath bevause of the threat density of your deck.
Combo is pretty difficult (always was), you have to draw the right half of your deck to beat that.
Vs. Shardless Bug I'm also having a hard time and I'm expecting the Jund matchup isn't easy either.
Never played this list vs. Miracles and I really want to test this matchup. Somehow I always ended up to tear up my opponents with Maverick, but this can't be very represantive for this matchup.

Greetings, Flodo

[litenkatt]

Sunyveil on feature match!

[ironclad8690]

Hey Guys!

What would be your ideal version of maverick (splashes, vials or GSZ, etc). vs 4c aggro loam?

He devastates my dreams every week, and I am running out of store credit at my LGS :P

I have tried Rest in peace, stony silence, and a couple other cards as tech but need some help.

[Koby]

Hey Guys!

What would be your ideal version of maverick (splashes, vials or GSZ, etc). vs 4c aggro loam?

He devastates my dreams every week, and I am running out of store credit at my LGS :P

I have tried Rest in peace, stony silence, and a couple other cards as tech but need some help.

Terravore, Absolute Law, Burrenton Forge-tender, Sacred Ground

Also, this just came to me: 1 mana answer to fight Elves:

Spore Frog. #trollol

[kingtk3]

Terravore, Absolute Law, Burrenton Forge-tender, Sacred Ground

Also, this just came to me: 1 mana answer to fight Elves:

Spore Frog. #trollol

Might as well play genesis too, for infinite f(r)og!

[Megadeus]

Hey Guys!

What would be your ideal version of maverick (splashes, vials or GSZ, etc). vs 4c aggro loam?

He devastates my dreams every week, and I am running out of store credit at my LGS :P

I have tried Rest in peace, stony silence, and a couple other cards as tech but need some help.

Active Mom is solid. Stone Forge Package is decent. RIP is a beating, but it does shrink your own knights so hopefully you have a way to beat down without KOTR. Well Timed RIP is very good though

[ironclad8690]

Terravore, Absolute Law, Burrenton Forge-tender, Sacred Ground

Also, this just came to me: 1 mana answer to fight Elves:

Spore Frog. #trollol

Thanks guys. I will totally try this and we will see who comes out on top. I think the enlightened tutor board is the way to go in this one with a couple of those tasty tricks.

Also, spore froging an elf player is my new magic goal for the year.

Edit: I also just realized that Revoker on Mox Diamond should be pretty sick

[ivanpei]

What ever happened to dark depths? I'm running 1 dark depths and 1 thespian stage just as an alternative win with knight. I've played the list to death and it wins a ton of games for me. Knight isn't the premier threat it used to be so I ran the combo to make sure knight = gg. Of course playing the combo means no maze and no splashes which I believe is a worthwhile sacrifice.

By running the midrange busting behemoth that is the dark depths combo, I get to cut down on other mid rangy cards like sfm. I'm running zero sfm but still keep in 2 jittes because it's just such an all star equipment. I've used the free slots for 2 Aven Minscensor for additional hate bears against combo and control.

Imo deathrite sometimes shrinks our own knights and abrupt decay is not that critical since we have gsz and pridemage. Increasing the instant and sorcery count is also a nonbo with thalia.

After testing:
Black splash Mav= flimsy manabase, decay sometimes Uncastable w/o deathrite. Too high dependence on deathrite, eats through your own lands at times. However pros are: good at busting counterbalance against miracles, post board discard always useful against combo and control.

Vial Mav= loses gsz, flexibility is gone. Thalia is now just boss because it doesn't mess with gsz anymore. Anything combo or control is just down the crapper as you lose gsz for silver bullets. Vial is however boss vs blue midrange and control. Dodges Counterspells and prevents overextending into sweepers. Can have some crazy starts. Would play in a blue midrange meta.

Dark depths Mav= has gsz, so same old dependable tutoring. Gsz is messy with thalia and teeg at times but careful play makes it tolerable. Solid manabase means dark depths and thespian stage can be fit in. 4 gsz also means 8 knights, making assembling the combo easier. Dark depths is a house, it dominates the midrange. However gets blowned out by stifle. Can be remedied by not being greedy against tempo and just sticking to creature plan. Dark depths just destroys Jund and bug midrange. They have no outs to a 20/20 indestructible even if they shrink your knight to nothing and eat up all the ooze food. Thus assumes you have weenies to sac for liliana which shouldn't be an issue.

[jonnnny]

What ever happened to dark depths? I'm running 1 dark depths and 1 thespian stage just as an alternative win with knight. I've played the list to death and it wins a ton of games for me. Knight isn't the premier threat it used to be so I ran the combo to make sure knight = gg. Of course playing the combo means no maze and no splashes which I believe is a worthwhile sacrifice.

I think my list is probably trying to do too much but I'm running the Dark Stage combo with a black splash (a really Dark Maverick build).

I opt for vial over GSZ because with weathered wayfarer, you want to operate on fewer lands than your opponent. Also, vialing in dryad arbor on zero always puts a smile on my face.

1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

4 Aether Vial
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Duress

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[ivanpei]

That list looks super greedy but hey if you like Chapin-style do everything lists why not? Jack of all trades decks are good for pilots with superior play skill that can win their 50/50 matchups with tight play.

Also the 2 duress should be thoughtseize. I think the versatility is worth the pain. I would also play 2 jitte or a jitte and a sword over the batterskull/jitte split. Since you don't run 4 sfm, if you draw that batterskull, you will very likely be forced to hard cast it. I'd rather have jitte in that situation to plow through the field. Also since Mav has an endless stream of weenies, Batterskulls body is not critical.

[jonnnny]

That list looks super greedy but hey if you like Chapin-style do everything lists why not? Jack of all trades decks are good for pilots with superior play skill that can win their 50/50 matchups with tight play.

Also the 2 duress should be thoughtseize. I think the versatility is worth the pain. I would also play 2 jitte or a jitte and a sword over the batterskull/jitte split. Since you don't run 4 sfm, if you draw that batterskull, you will very likely be forced to hard cast it. I'd rather have jitte in that situation to plow through the field. Also since Mav has an endless stream of weenies, Batterskulls body is not critical.
I agree it's super greedy. I may move the abrupt decays to the sideboard. Deathrites are okay in the main I think since it can be cast with green. Perhaps I don't need 3 DRS+3 BoP when I'm running vials.

That's an excellent point about batterskull. I think I will opt for a jitte + SoFaI/SoFaF depending on meta.

I've found that I like duress better than thoughtseize in the matchups that need it, namely combo. What matchup would thoughtseize be better in specifically?

[Nihilis]

@ivanpei: actually when the Dark Depths trigger is stifled, the sacrifice part is also countered meaning it will stay in play with zero counters on it and will just trigger again.

[klaus]

@ivanpei: actually when the Dark Depths trigger is stifled, the sacrifice part is also countered meaning it will stay in play with zero counters on it and will just trigger again.
really? could you be more specific?

[sdematt]

@ivanpei: actually when the Dark Depths trigger is stifled, the sacrifice part is also countered meaning it will stay in play with zero counters on it and will just trigger again.

Yeah, but if you stifle after the legend rule part, and stifle the "put a token into play," you've already sacced your stage (which is now a Dark Depths) so then I think you come out okay.

-Matt

[Julian23]

[...] ...you've already sacced your stage (which is now a Dark Depths) [...]

...with zero counters on it. Since the sacrifice is part of the effect (which you just stifled), it will just trigger again immediately.

[sdematt]

Oh, I see. Damn :P

This is why I just prefer to kill the Knights before they untap :wink:

-Matt

[ironclad8690]

Very interesting, so what are the possible blowouts that can disrupt the Depths + Stage combo?

[ivanpei]

I'm aware that stifle doesn't stop dark depths triggering as it will just trigger again due to state checking. I was referring to thespian stage being stifled when the copy is on the stack. If you are looking to race tempo and spend 2 turns activating knight for the combo and a full turn of mana activating the stage just to be timewalked by a stifle, you get blowned out. You are better off using knight to swing and try to race delver.

Thanks for pointing out my confusing statement though. Although if you have a ground stall, then yes the combo is pretty much stifle proof. Or stifle just buy a turn. The combo just packs so much power. I've actually raced a dreadnought-torpor orb deck before with t1 noble, T2 knight. His discard obviously went for my pridemage and gsz, but since I was packing the combo I buried him with knight.

Gw needs some explosive raw Power at times. Gw is a super fair deck, we don't have unfair shenanigans like punishing fire, bloodbraid, Jace, shardless into visions etc. The dark depths combo is the closest to broken shenanigans we can get for a very low cost of 1 potential dead card and 1 colourless land. With Nemesis entering the fray, we need some broken stuff to flatout race Nemesis.

Actually drawing the dark depths isn't that bad. I sand bag it and lay knight first usually. My opponent usually thinks he has 2 turns to end the game because I need 2 knight activations. When I Untap with knight the next turn I'll just lay the sandbagged dark depths and be like "surprise!" and activate knight for the other part of the combo.

[.Ix]

I agree with ivanpei. Depths is a rock solid addition to Maverick, especially now that we're a little worried that our knights are getting all skinny.

@Ironclad
Instant speed bounce and exile spells can beat the token. That's pretty much it.

[barcode]

Very interesting, so what are the possible blowouts that can disrupt the Depths + Stage combo?

Karakas, Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Ensnaring Bridge, any flier with protection from black (say, a Scryb Ranger with a SoFaF), Maze of Ith, Humility, Aven Mindcensor (for KoTR searching)...

Lots of answers and when it is answered you're down a huge number of resources and will almost always lose.

[klaus]

Karakas, Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Ensnaring Bridge, any flier with protection from black (say, a Scryb Ranger with a SoFaF), Maze of Ith, Humility, Aven Mindcensor (for KoTR searching)...
Lots of answers and when it is answered you're down a huge number of resources and will almost always lose.

Keep in mind though that we have pre-emptive answers to most their answers:
Mangara/Waste their Karakas, Waste, Maze // STP their flier (Strix is the most common problem)

Marit Lage is merely a plan B which does not involve much downsides, apart from that singleton Dark Depths.
I'm very happy with my testing results so far (wins about 20% of my games) and assume that a large quantity Maverick builds will adopt that tech sooner or later, with sooner being better since many opponents are not prepared or even acquainted with this trick yet.

[Megadeus]

Why is Strix so bad for you in this situation? I mean sure they chump for a turn, but what deck playing Baleful strix actually has a way to remove Lage? Other than Lily/Jace Shardless is stone cold dead

[Tombstalker]

Stage depths is a great addition to maverick. I was rocking it in the GSZ version but having switched to vial maverick recently based closely off Klaus and Doors shell I have to say the combo is straight better in the vial version. There must be around 5-6 cards total in the game that can tutor ANY land (at least legacy viable) and vial mav plays 3 of those :-)

As for answers to marit lage the most annoying so far ive found is submerge and karakas.

[.Ix]

Karakas, Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Ensnaring Bridge, any flier with protection from black (say, a Scryb Ranger with a SoFaF), Maze of Ith, Humility, Aven Mindcensor (for KoTR searching)...

Lots of answers and when it is answered you're down a huge number of resources and will almost always lose.

In addition to what Klaus wrote, you'll probably have Mother of Runes or Safekeeper in play before the Depths combo shows up. Mother beats blockers, Safekeeper deals with Karakas and Maze, though you probably shouldn't do the combo with Maze/Karakas/active Knight on the opponent's side.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that the combo should almost always be played on the end step. This eliminates a lot of things from the list of possible answers, reducing it to just the instant speed stuff. If you think the opponent can answer with anything at all, you can always just not do the combo and stick with plan A.

[Koby]

What are some thoughts regarding the choice of control-breaker:

Sigarda?
Planeswalker?
Equipment?
Thrun?

Considering this list:

3 Noble Hierarch
2 DRS
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia (downgraded to fit 2nd Ooze)
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
4 KotR

2 SFM
1 Jitte
1 SoFI
1 SoLS

4 GSZ
4 StP
2 Sylvan Library

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy (would like a 2nd)
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains

So in this list I want to fit in one more top-end Zenith target; and I'm banking on Sigarda for that to beat Liliana & Emrakul alike. What do you guys think is the next most cutable creature/equipment? What would be the next most cutable land to get a 2nd Horizon Canopy?

EDIT: made some changes after initial thoughts and chats with other Maverick players.
-1 Verdant Catacombs
+1 Horizon Canopy
-1 KotR
+1 Sigarda

Alt: +1 KotR and go to 61 cards.

[Teluin]

I'd say either DRS or Noble.

[buloid]

hi all,

in an open meta where im choosing to play Dark Maverick, Thoughtseize board, what would you suggest i do given the following choices?

a.) Thrun or Sigarda?
b.) Maze of Ith or Yavimaya Hollow?



edit: typos