[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[lavafrogg]

Is winter orb any good right now?

I'm looking at it in the board of punishing mac to lock up midrange mana bases while I have knights/heirachs and scryb ranger… thoughts?

Okay, to anyone who still plays maverick. I am playing punishing mav tomorrow with 3 mindcensors and 3 pridemages main, 3 equipment, fire/ice feast/famine and jitte and 23 lands

[lavafrogg]

Just took 9th at a 60 man tourney with punishing maverick. I lost my win an in to death and taxes 2-1. Report to follow.

[Wintersmith]

Still running Maverick, for the past year or so. Haven't had great success with it, due a lot of reasons, but mainly due lack of practice and lack of general knowledge of legacy. Latest change to my GW deck has been adding black for Deathrites, Dark Confidants, Abrupt Decays and Zealous Persecutions. Though it has been difficult to cut cards for those. I' ve been trying to keep up to the date reading this thread, so thanks for all the input.

Telkku, do you think Bob has been the deciding factor in your games against the Rock? I can't remember taking a single win against Rock with straight GW Maverick in testing. And I would also appreciate any advice anyone can contribute on Jund (Punishing or ordinary) matches.

[litenkatt]

Yesterday I attended a GPT with Maverick. There were about 30people, 5 rounds and then a top8. I played to finals where I split the prizes due to time limitations. It was a great day and here's a report (will post decklist after and thoughts on it):

R1 Pox
G1 He's on the play. Dark ritual -> Liliana. I managed to give him a fight though but in the end she was at 13 counters and I had an empty board, literally. He was beating down with nether spirit
G2 I board in pithing needles. Played one of them and named Liliana, he also had a bad mull down to 5 so there wasn't much of a game
G3 I got both my pithing needles in my starter 7. He does the dark ritual liliana thing again but I play needle on liliana on next turn on Top. Game was in my favour at this point and Mirran Crusader killed him at last 1-0

R2 Bug delver
G1 Really tight game. I make a mistake where I don't leave up mana to counter his Deathrite's actications (with Ooze), as I was on 7 health and he had tombstalker and 2x deathrites in play. I played sloopy and he won the game
G2 I put lots of pressure of him including Choke which he has to FoW. Basically attacking his mana base a lot and I had him dead on board at one point, but I made a mistake:

He was at 2 life, I had an Ooze, Mother of runes and a GSZ in hand. He had deathrite in play and 1 unknown card in hand. I was pretty sure it was a aburpt decay. So pre combat I give my ooze pro green and attack, he cast disfigure on it. (ooze was only 2/2) What I could have down was GSZ for scryb ranger and give my ooze both pro green and black. Also if he had abrupt decay in hand this would also do it

He stabilizes a bit and casts tombstalker. But I gsz for Knight and kill him the following turn

G3 Game goes to time. 1-0-1

R3 Lands

G1 Mother of runes beatdown. He didn't find any gas or action and I just put out creatures and killed him
G2 Pretty much same. He get some punshing fire action going but Ooze eats up his graveyard and Knight found my wastelands for his maze of ith.

2-0-1

R4 Tin Fins
G1 He combo me out Turn 2.
G2 I play pithing needle on Griselbrand. He reanimates it anyways and keeps bashing for 7 every turn. I'm at like 4 life and I cast a scryb ranger to chump. I get one more drawstep, so I draw the card and slam it on the table - Oblivion ring. I remove his griselbrand and proceed to win the game
G3 Turn 1 needle on griselbrand, turn 2 Thalia. He's stuck on 1 land and I wasteland it and he has no lands in play and I have a thalia, needle + extraction in hand

3-0-1

R5 Merfolk
G1 I was in such a good position this game, using Scryb Ranger tricks to eat lots of his guys. I serach for Sword of fire and ice with SFM (Which is a mistake! Always go for jitte!!!) and he puts out So Many Lords. really. Not even funny and kills me.
G2 This time I got an early jitte going and that sealed the game
G3 Such a tight game! He bashes me with lots of lords and other blue fishy creatures. Turn 4 I played jitte and equipped it to my Knight, versus his 4 lords and I was at 10 life or something. He was so sure he was gonna win so he attacks with his team: I block one of his lords, saccing a land to fetch maze of ith to kill his phantasmal image. He puts me to 1 life. From here on I manage to stabilize, put lots of dudes out on the field and killing stuff with Jitte.

4-0-1

Top8

Merfolk (same player)

G1 He forgets his aether vial triggers and he played a standstill and forgot about that too and played a spell to have me draw 3 cards. Game was not even close
G2 I get Jitte going and he doesn't have any gas. Game was over fairly quickly

Elves

G1 He combo me out turn 3
G2 I put a teeg into play which buys me so time. Eventually I cast zealous persecution that kills pretty much all his team and I take the game from there
G3 Wow. Mega tight game, we both go to beatdowns as he can't find any NO. I have a mirran crusader bashing, and he has some elves. At one point, im at 3 life and have 3 blockers, and he he has 5 guys and some of them are 2/2s. If he had turned his guys sideways he would have won but he thought I had some combat trick in hand so he decided not to. I draw GSZ it get Noble Hierarch. I attack with miran crusader with exalted trigger which is exaclty lethal

Finals Deadguy

We split!


CREATURES (28)
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SORCERIES (4)
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
INSTANTS (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares
ARTIFACTS (2)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
LANDS (22)
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Maze of Ith
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
SIDEBOARD
2 Pithing Needle
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Choke
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Gaddock Teeg


Couldn't find a cradle so put a cavern of souls in that spot instead.
Mirran crusader was actually really good! Still wouldn't play more than 2
Sylvan safekeeper did nothing for me all day
Niether did Gaddock Teeg
I think we should play more SFM. Jitte and Swords are just too good not to play every game
Qasali pridemage was OK. Reason I ran 3 was I suspected lots of true name nemesis and I need to destroy all the equipments they run else its over.

Pithing Needle was very good
So was Zealous Persecution against elves :D
O-ring was OK. It's mainly there against show and tell matchups but u can board it in against lots of other decks too

[lavafrogg]

So i went 4-2 at the AZ magic players legacy open which drew 60 players. I lost my win and in and took 9th…with punishing maverick.

Round 1: UWr miracles 1-2

Game one: He lands a turn 2 counterbalance and slowly gets me locked under it thanks to a terminus.

Game two: I shrug off a turn three terminus with equipment and mana dudes, with a noble heirarch being Voltroned up for the win.

Game three: I have the dream hand of turn one mom, turn two stoneforge mystic turn three GSZ for teeg. He plows the mom and drops a blood moon on my turn 2, I look at the heirarch in my hand and never play another spell.

Round 2:Jund 2-0

Game One: He kills my first three creatures and can't answer my knight into wastelands

Game two:He gets two early goyfs backed up by discard but stoneforge and Mother of ruins(sword of feast and famine) allow me to hold down the fort until knight comes online.

Round 3: Painter 2-0

Game one: I have an ooze turn off his goblin welder and removal for the painters he plays.

Game two: Multiple pridemages keep him down and then sword of feast and famine takes apart his hand.

Round 4: Merfolk 2-0

Game one: He gets a true name nemesis and a jittte but it isn't enough against double knights.

Game two: I have tons of removal and get an active sword of fire and ice.

Round 5 Elves: 2-0

Game one: I swords to plowshares into jitte to steal the win.

Game two: Teeg+Canonist+Mom+nothing else means this game took way too long. I never draw removal and slowly have to attack him to death with 2/2's while he is blocking and returning 1/1's

Round 6 Death and Taxes: 1-2

Game one: he destroys my mana base and wins quickly

Game 2: I establish my mana base and destroy him.

Game 3: he destroys my mana base and wins quickly.

and I take 9th!

The bonus is my wife also went 4-2 which was good enough for 16th in her first magic tournament ever!

I never drew relevant punishing fires but it would have been good if i ever had it online. In the first match against miracles I never drew/cast a pridemage or a green suns zenith, either would have won me the match.

edit:

list

Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
Spells
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
Lands
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wasteland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Plateau
3 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Sylvan Library
2 Path to Exile
1 Life from the Loam
1 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Oblivion Ring

I plan on swapping aven mind censor for spirit of the labyrinth straight up as I feel it will give me more traction against all of the blue floating around.

[conley1000000]

I've seen a couple decklists using spirit, obviously the basic consensus is 3-4 for of for most of us. Until I get some actual testing in I'm going to lean on him as a 4 of. That 3 power seems saucy. Unlike most I'm still a proponent of the SFM package and I thought I would share my list I'll start testing:

Dark Spirit Maverick

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddok Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth

4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Dark Depths
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Thespians Stage
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

SB:
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Life from the Loam
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Scavenging Ooze


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IL_casual]

Im thiking of tweaking my dark maverick into a dark vial maverick. Is this in any way possible? I want to try the spirit of the labyrinth but I still do want to retain my black splash.
Im thinking of
-4 green sun zenith
+4 aether vials

-2 sylvan library
- 4 thoughtsieze


+ 3 spirit of labyrinth
+ 1 gaddock teeg ( 2 total)
+ 2 aven mindcensor



Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[.Ix]

I've been trying to do the same thing to get Zealous Persecution in the board, but I haven't really ended up with a build I'm happy with. I hope the Vial Build players have ideas.

I also have another question regarding the vial build: How have you guys been adapting to the -1/-1 type of hate? I've thought about revamping my build and heavily reducing the number of x/1s but I'm not really sure how that will go, considering two of the best vial hatebears are x/1.

[IL_casual]

I've been trying to do the same thing to get Zealous Persecution in the board, but I haven't really ended up with a build I'm happy with. I hope the Vial Build players have ideas.

I also have another question regarding the vial build: How have you guys been adapting to the -1/-1 type of hate? I've thought about revamping my build and heavily reducing the number of x/1s but I'm not really sure how that will go, considering two of the best vial hatebears are x/1.

Forgive me...but what are the 2 best vial hatebears? Thalia and sol?")
Really excited about the banning later.not expecting anything to shake up legacy but you never know.")
Hoping for tnn to get the axe tho. Or unbnan survival.")

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[lavafrogg]

Forgive me...but what are the 2 best vial hatebears? Thalia and sol?")
Really excited about the banning later.not expecting anything to shake up legacy but you never know.")
Hoping for tnn to get the axe tho. Or unbnan survival.")

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

Thalia and ether sworn canonist are the two best but canonist is too strong to main deck against fair decks.

[.Ix]

Forgive me...but what are the 2 best vial hatebears? Thalia and sol?")
Really excited about the banning later.not expecting anything to shake up legacy but you never know.")
Hoping for tnn to get the axe tho. Or unbnan survival.")

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

IMO they are Revoker and Thalia.

[lavafrogg]

IMO they are Revoker and Thalia.

Revoker isn't a hate bear, it is a utility creature.

[ivanpei]

I'm still on the GSZ package. IMO Death and Taxes is the better Vial deck because they can abuse Ports and Wastelands together with Vials. Ports + Vials in a mono coloured deck is saucy.

I'm going -2 Aven Mindcensor, -1 Scryb Ranger (she does a little of everything but not enough!) and -1 Ooze (Back down to one since Goyfs, Snaps and Kotrs see less play now) for 4 Spirit of the Labyrinth. Really looking forward to testing the 3/1 blue hatecat. The 3 power is a serious clock.

[Megadeus]

I think the card is vastly overrated. I just don't think it will be THAT good. I'm sure it is fine, but it doesnt seem completely insane or anything.

[lavafrogg]

The spirit is not broken but it is strong enough to play main deck because the 3 power trades with most aggro creatures in non blue matchups. Against anything else it is main deck material that forces them to play fair, something that maverick is really good at. No jacing, no brainstorming away bad cards, no amazing card selection engine.

Honestly, I do think I would play the spirit over Thalia, but I am on punishing mav right now and cannot play the legend due to wanting to recur punishing fires.

With the spirit out, I have stoneforge, knight, loam, punishing fires and swords for non draw card advantage as well as not losing any of my card selection. Win win.

For those who are following along I am on the three sword plan right now. Sword of Fire and Ice, Feast and Famine and Light and Shadow. Jitte and batterskull are floating around my sideboard right now but in most cases I want to get a sword on a creature and attack right away.

The amount of combo always leads me to wanting feast and famine, against control I want fire and ice and against grindy decks I want light and shadow….in all actually they all are great in most situations with some being better than the others at certain times.

[Strassbaw]

Hello Mav players,

I have been playing legacy for a few years and I seen a new card printed that might be a cool 1 of Greensun Zyneth target. The card I am talking about is Courser of Kruphish from the Born of the Gods set. I've been testing this card this week and I have some good results with the card in a slot I was using for a second scavenging ooze. I've been running a list similar to a punishing dark Mav list I seen on tc decks (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12122&iddeck=88837) and I have taken some creative freedom with the list.

So far, the decks ability to shuffle with cards like KOTR, fetch lands, green sun, (and in my list stoneforge mystic) has been very useful in peeking at my top card and adjusting my top card for either more land drops, or a more ideal top card to draw next turn. This may be too cute of a trick for this deck, as some games in this format end turn 2 or 3, but in a grindy match playing punish fire tech, this card has been nice to me so far.

Feedback is appreciate. I see potential, but it may be too small to matter. I'll post more if I get good results in a legacy weekly in a week or two. Thanks. :)

[Moroklumpen]

I just realized (I'm sure I'm not the first) that Spirit of the Labyrinth messes up the card draw on Sword of Fire and Ice (corner case exception: if you play Life from the Loam or another Dredge card, you can dredge first and then draw off the sword). What do you guys think is the best way to handle this in a TNN metagame?

Ignore it, since it won't always come up and the sword will be decent anyway?
Play Sword of Body and Mind? I'm pretty sure protection from green is better than red in most cases, which would make up for weaker abilities to some degree.
Play another equipment altogether (Batterskull, SoL&S, SoF&F) and up the number of prot. blue guys? Skylasher and Great Sable Stag are probably the best.
Play another equipment, compensating for the loss of TNN protection in some other way (more evasion, Zealous Persecution, whatnot)?
Something else?

[lavafrogg]

Hello Mav players,

I have been playing legacy for a few years and I seen a new card printed that might be a cool 1 of Greensun Zyneth target. The card I am talking about is Courser of Kruphish from the Born of the Gods set. I've been testing this card this week and I have some good results with the card in a slot I was using for a second scavenging ooze. I've been running a list similar to a punishing dark Mav list I seen on tc decks (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12122&iddeck=88837) and I have taken some creative freedom with the list.

So far, the decks ability to shuffle with cards like KOTR, fetch lands, green sun, (and in my list stoneforge mystic) has been very useful in peeking at my top card and adjusting my top card for either more land drops, or a more ideal top card to draw next turn. This may be too cute of a trick for this deck, as some games in this format end turn 2 or 3, but in a grindy match playing punish fire tech, this card has been nice to me so far.

Feedback is appreciate. I see potential, but it may be too small to matter. I'll post more if I get good results in a legacy weekly in a week or two. Thanks. :)

That card is awful. Don't get cute with your tutor slots, something has to be really really good to play over more oozes, pridemages, or the singleton teeg/scryb. In a grindy match up you are better off just getting a knight and winning the game.


I just realized (I'm sure I'm not the first) that Spirit of the Labyrinth messes up the card draw on Sword of Fire and Ice (corner case exception: if you play Life from the Loam or another Dredge card, you can dredge first and then draw off the sword). What do you guys think is the best way to handle this in a TNN metagame?

Ignore it, since it won't always come up and the sword will be decent anyway?
Play Sword of Body and Mind? I'm pretty sure protection from green is better than red in most cases, which would make up for weaker abilities to some degree.
Play another equipment altogether (Batterskull, SoL&S, SoF&F) and up the number of prot. blue guys? Skylasher and Great Sable Stag are probably the best.
Play another equipment, compensating for the loss of TNN protection in some other way (more evasion, Zealous Persecution, whatnot)?
Something else?

In addition to helping out the punishing mav build that I have been working on I think there is a GWu Maverick list that should appear with cliques main as disruption and evasion(and the combo with spirit and karakas) and meddling mages in the side board to fight combo. I'm brewing hard now!

[Claymore]

You can dredge since it replaces the draw effect, meaning you didn't draw. However, you can't draw for the turn and later replace the Sword proc with a dredge.

"If a replacement effect would try to replace a card that you can't draw, that effect can't apply."

[Moroklumpen]

Here's what I'm considering for the next tournament:

3 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Weathered Wayfarer

2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Stirring Wildwood

Sideboard to come. At the moment I'm kinda itching to add Sword of Light and Shadow; it was a house before the True-Name Menace and works better with Spirit. Comments?

[ironclad8690]

Here's what I'm considering for the next tournament:

3 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Weathered Wayfarer

2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Stirring Wildwood

Sideboard to come. At the moment I'm kinda itching to add Sword of Light and Shadow; it was a house before the True-Name Menace and works better with Spirit. Comments?

This is pretty unique. How have Gavony Township and Stirring Wildwood been for you in the past? I have also thought about Siriji Step on a similar note, but currently I run the depths stage combo in my vial maverick.

[Behlial]

Hello, I have been meaning to post on here for quite some time but haven't had a chance. I have been playing maverick for quite sometime. I been playing a more standard gw maverick list normally. Pretty much take the vials out and add In GSZ, but with the release of tnn and spirit of the labyrinth I wanted to try a different build. The list below is more centered around using vials for spirits mostly. I been doing quite well with the GW list in my local meta, which consist of mostly counter top/miracles variants. Then with TNN now I wanted to change things up to deal with this little SOB and also include my new favorite hate creature. With TNN like many others here, I have removes Maze of ith from the deck and I also added state+ depths combo. Once creature I was surprised about when I added it originally to the deck was mirrian crusader. He has been nothing but an all star 90% of the time I play him.

Vial list

1 Noble hierarch
3 Deathrite shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 knight of the reliquary
2 stoneforge mystic
2 gaddock teeg
2 qasali pridemage
3 Thalia, guardian of thraben
3 spirit of the labyrinth
2 Mirrian crusader
4 mother of runes
4 swords to plowshares
4 aether vial
2 jitte
1 plains
1 forest
1 Bayou
1 dryad arbor
4 windswept heath
4 wasteland
4 savannah
1 karakas
1 scrubland
1 Dark Depth's
1 thespean's Stage
2 Marsh flats
1 verdant catacombs


Sideboard
3 zealous persecution
3 thought seize
2 abrupt decay
2 oblivion ring
2 choke
And I forget the last few..

My other list is with green sun's


4 Noble Hiearch's (or DRS)
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 knight of the reliquary
1 gaddock teeg
1 scryb ranger
2 qasali pridemage
3 Thalia, guardian of thraben
3 spirit of the labyrinth
2 Mirrian crusader
1 Thrun, The last Troll
1 Elspeth, knight errant
4 mother of runes
4 swords to plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 jitte (or a combo of Jitte/bskull/sword)
1 plains
1 forest
1 Bayou
1 dryad arbor
4 windswept heath
4 wasteland
4 savannah
1 karakas
1 scrubland
1 Dark Depth's
1 thespean's Stage
2 Marsh flats
1 verdant catacombs

My sideboard pre TNN was
Side board
2 choke
2 pithing needle
2 oblivion ring
2 surgical extraction
1 bojuka
1 path to exile
1 gaddock teeg
1 engineered explosives
2 ethersworn canonist

My apologies for typo's or auto corrects. I am posting this from my ipad. The mana base isn't 100% I forgot or may have some numbers off but its pretty much the same between the list. Not 100% on sideboards. My meta is mostly countertop variants, some reanimator, X blade, and sneak and show. I am pretty much the guy who either breaks out Maverick or elves in my meta and its still a surprise to some of my friends when I play them.

[lavafrogg]

Why hasn't anyone built a GWu maverick build with true name nemesis yet? Turn 2 exalted progenitus seem pretty over powered.

[Moroklumpen]

Without countermagic, TNN isn't all that. It gets raced by aggro, ignored by combo and dealt with by control. Playing Hierarch T1 and TNN T2 means we're not wasting them or playing a hatebear, allowing them to do whatever they want, which isn't where we want to be in legacy. Also, it makes us a lot more vulnerable to Wasteland. The decks that play TNN also play free countermagic to solve this, but when we start adding Daze and Force we're really talking about a quite different deck. I have considered a blue splash, but I'd much rather add Meddling Mage, Spell Pierce and Vendilion Clique, and the double blue on Clique is actually a serious issue.

[lavafrogg]

Without countermagic, TNN isn't all that. It gets raced by aggro, ignored by combo and dealt with by control. Playing Hierarch T1 and TNN T2 means we're not wasting them or playing a hatebear, allowing them to do whatever they want, which isn't where we want to be in legacy. Also, it makes us a lot more vulnerable to Wasteland. The decks that play TNN also play free countermagic to solve this, but when we start adding Daze and Force we're really talking about a quite different deck. I have considered a blue splash, but I'd much rather add Meddling Mage, Spell Pierce and Vendilion Clique, and the double blue on Clique is actually a serious issue.

I know! Because 4+ damage a turn is so bad. With wastes lands, spirits, cliques, mages, teegs and whatnot. It could work.

[Anfylion]

Why hasn't anyone built a GWu maverick build with true name nemesis yet? Turn 2 exalted progenitus seem pretty over powered.

Check reid duke's Bant, if you like TNN in a Maverick shell

I personally like that strategy, but do not consider a maverick deck, since Jace and TNN are UU

[from Cairo]

Why hasn't anyone built a GWu maverick build with true name nemesis yet? Turn 2 exalted progenitus seem pretty over powered.

Yea, why has no one done this?! It didn't come in 4th at the first Grand Prix Nemesis was legal in, right? (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12214&iddeck=89517)

[lavafrogg]

Check reid duke's Bant, if you like TNN in a Maverick shell

I personally like that strategy, but do not consider a maverick deck, since Jace and TNN are UU

In no way did I say play full out bant, jace is bad right now and the deck wants to be attacking, not protecting a planeswalker. All I am saying is maverick.....with true name nemesis. Did you follow me on that one?

[Moroklumpen]

I know! Because 4+ damage a turn is so bad. With wastes lands, spirits, cliques, mages, teegs and whatnot. It could work.
It is when you're not interacting before turn three; there are just too many decks that put us on the back foot by then, and we're not that good at coming back when we're behind. We have limited ability to interact with the stack and with certain resolved threats. Much of our strength lies in mana denial and other preemptive disruption, and TNN doesn't really fit into that plan. You can build that deck, and it could be solid, but it'll need countermagic and cantrips, not Mother of Runes and Green Sun's Zenith.

[lavafrogg]

It is when you're not interacting before turn three; there are just too many decks that put us on the back foot by then, and we're not that good at coming back when we're behind. We have limited ability to interact with the stack and with certain resolved threats. Much of our strength lies in mana denial and other preemptive disruption, and TNN doesn't really fit into that plan. You can build that deck, and it could be solid, but it'll need countermagic and cantrips, not Mother of Runes and Green Sun's Zenith.

Im not sure what deck you are playing but none is saying that you can't wasteland them turn one or whatever you need to win. I what just saying against most of the fair decks out there right now a turn 2 True name is a must counter. We don't play counter magic or real disruption until turns 2-3 so why even pretend.

[IL_casual]

<CARDS>
3 deathrite shaman
3 mother of runes
1 sylvan safekeeper
1 birds of paradise
4 green sun zenith
4 thoughtseize
4 swords to plowshares

2 umezawa's jitte
2 qasali pridemage
2 scavenging ooze
1 gaddock teeg
1 scyrb ranger
1 life from the loam
3 spirit of the labyrinth

4 knight of the reliquary

3 savannah
2 bayou
4 wasteland
3 verdant catacomb
4 windswept heath
1 thespian's stage
1 dark depths
1 forest
1 plains
1 dryad arbor
1 karakas
1 scrubland
1 horizon canopy

Sideboard
3 thalia
2 surgical extraction
2 enlightened tutor
2 choke
1 zealous persecution
2 engineered plague
1 gaddock teeg
1 aethersworn canonist
1 bojuka bog

Here is my take on dark maverick. Note the inclusion of 3 spirit of the labyrinth in place of the sylvan libraries. My thinking is that the thoughtseizes would be put in the sb and thalia would be put out. This would make dark mavs poised and ready for an aggrresive game. Opinions and comments would be appreciated.

</CARDS>

[Moroklumpen]

Im not sure what deck you are playing but none is saying that you can't wasteland them turn one or whatever you need to win. I what just saying against most of the fair decks out there right now a turn 2 True name is a must counter.

I was commenting on the specific scenario you proposed. In a fair matchup a turn 3 TNN would be pretty good, unless they Wasteland us or bolt/plow our Hierarch in the meantime. Either would be quite likely against a fair deck, probably stranding the TNN in our hand for several turns. Also remember that fair decks are adjusting to TNN; a resolved one won't be nearly as hard to deal with as it was when it was new. Besides, aren't we pretty good against fair decks already? Will ruining our mana base for TNN really improve those matchups that much? Won't we be punished in matchups where we already struggle?

Against unfair decks you're spending three mana on something that doesn't interact or force them to interact. Sure, it's a decent clock, but so is Knight of the Reliquary, who also searches up Wasteland and Karakas if we need it, in addition to other utility. Thalia, Gaddock Teeg and Spirit of the Labyrinth actually interfere with their plans, costing less, without ruining our mana. Spirit even clocks them as effectively as TNN, and the decks you need it against the most are the ones that struggle the most to deal with creatures.


We don't play counter magic or real disruption until turns 2-3 so why even pretend.

I'm not sure why you consider this an argument in your favor. If we're playing a deck where we need disruption, we really need to hit that window and land something that keeps us alive, and TNN isn't it. Decks that play TNN do so because it doesn't interfere with their disruption plan. They play free counters (and some times cheap discard), letting them drop TNN without lowering their guard. We can't take a turn off like that.

[haganbmj]

Pretty underwhelming weekend at SCG Nashville for GWb Maverick and I.

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Knight of the Reliquary

1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Crop Rotation
1 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Life from the Loam
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Oblivion Ring

List is off memory, so there might be a few typos on names.
List felt fine, I made the last minute change to Pithing Needles in the board as I saw a rather high number of Sneak/Show and Dark Depths based decks running around during the Legacy Trial on Saturday.
Mirran Crusader came in over Sylvan Library a week ago because lately I've felt Library to be too slow. Every deck in legacy (it seems) has an end-game now against us, whether it be storm, sneak/show, dark depths, tnn+equip, or something else, every deck is working towards some specific board state. Sylvan Library wasn't helping me keep pace with those kinds of strategies and Mirran Crusader has proven to be pretty solid at closing out a game quickly.


Round 1 v Dredge (1-2)
- Win game 1 with Deathrite, eat his dredger, advance the board into Stoneforge -> Jitte.
- Lose game 2 with Deathrite, he Firestorms EOT1 and Breakthroughs on turn 2.
- Lose game 3 on a mull to 4. His hand was pretty respectable though, mine was not.

Round 2 v Dredge (2-0)
- Win game 1 with t2 active Ooze.
- Win game 2 after he keeps 7, casts Faithless Looting and discards 2 Gemstone Mines - still not sure what he would've kept, but he must have been going for something like t2 Breakthrough off a Cephalid to warrant that keep.

Round 3 v UR Delver (2-0)
- Win game 1 after exhausting his hand with manadorks, mom, and thalia. Sword of Fire and Ice goes to town.
- Win game 2 after mulling to 5 and stumbling on lands, his Goblin Guide is in my favor though and helps me dig out a bit. He has the Smash to my Jitte, but floods a bit and can't keep pressure on board to push through my Maze of Ith + dudes.

Round 4 v RUG Delver (2-1)
- Lose game 1 after he leads on Delver which I swords t1. He wastelands and stifles my next fetch and I stumble a bit trying to get my mana together, fortunately he doesn't play a threat for a few turns, but unfortunately neither do I. He blind flips a delver eventually and rides it to victory.
- Win game 2 after my Thoughtseize sees Trop, Waste, Waste, Fire//Ice, FoW, Stifle. I take the Fire//Ice then bait the FoW with a Mother. I surgical his wasteland and hit both the one I knew he had and an extra that he drew.
- Win game 3 after Life from the Loam just takes over.

Round 5 v UWR DelverBlade (1-2)
- Lose game 1 when he goes Stoneforge->Batterskull, I go for Swords on Stoneforge and get him to FoW. He drops the Batterskull and I GSZ for Pridemage to take care of it. He then follows up with TNN and I can't get enough pressure to race it.
- Win game 2 when I Pithing Needle his Stoneforge->Batterskull and get an active Jitte. Mother clears the way of removal and Mirran Crusader smashes his face with a Jitte on it.
- Lose game 3 when he leads on delver, flips it, and tempos me a bit. From there a TNN comes down to lock up the board and it's a quick game.

Round 6 v Merfolk (1-2)
- Win game 1 with Sword of Fire and Ice.
- Lose game 2 to TNN which prevents my assault and gives him multiple turns to catch up.
- Lose game 3 after he keeps Cavern, Mutavault, FoW, 3x TNN. I Wasteland him to keep him off colored mana sources, but he's able to draw out of it and land TNN, TNN with Mutavaults to block my Sword of Fire and Ice.

At this point I just drop.

I felt like all the matchups were fine, I made a few misplays on the day, but overall felt like I was in every match. TNN is still just a pain in the ass. I was talking with my Fish opponent afterwards and mentioned that I don't bring in Zealous Persecution (at one point his board was TNN, TNN, Cursecatcher, Cursecatcher) because it's a blank against lords, instead I just have to rely on 3 Thoughtsize and 7 Removal Spells for Lords to keep the pressure down. I really do wish there was a better solution to TNN. I think I might just have to suck it up though and try to make those 7 removal spells count towards keeping ZP live.

Congrats to all the Georgia guys though this event, the local area put 4 people in the top 16 (lands, bw gate, ur delver, mud). I'll be taking a good look at the deck again and might be switching to something else for SCG Atlanta the first weekend of March.

[lavafrogg]

Ill be playing punishing maverick with spirit main this weekend and I can't wait to finish better than my last performance….9th...

[Moroklumpen]

Ill be playing punishing maverick with spirit main this weekend and I can't wait to finish better than my last performance….9th...

Sounds good; I'd love to see a report. Does the Spirit replace Thalia entirely, partially or not at all when you play Fire/Grove?

[IL_casual]

Ill be playing punishing maverick with spirit main this weekend and I can't wait to finish better than my last performance….9th...

With all the TNN decks out there. Why are you opting to go with red as opposed to black? I also plan to put in 3 spirits in my dark maverick replacing sylvan library and 1 abrupt decay.

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[lavafrogg]

With all the TNN decks out there. Why are you opting to go with red as opposed to black? I also plan to put in 3 spirits in my dark maverick replacing sylvan library and 1 abrupt decay.

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Punishing fire kills almost all non TNN threats in the format, beats jund, tribal, is another issue for elves to beat, Lilliana, jace, and synergies greatly with the rest of the maverick deck. Red gives me blasts to help fight TNN before he hits the table and in instances before a board wipe I find that I win the race in most cases. After a board wipe it really doesn't matter if he drops a TNN or a jace, I'm still on my back foot and am in trouble.

I am finding that I am losing to the esper TNN decks with verdicts and not the patriot lists with 1 for 1 removal.

[Vandalize]

I've been testing a straight GW list, and keeping good records. TNN decks are slightly favorable. They're really weak without equipment and if he's blocking, that will give you some turns to establish board presence.

List:

4 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Mother of Runes
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
SB: 1 Maze of Ith

Matches:

Sneak and Show = 5-4-0
BUG Delver (Tombstalker + TNN) = 4-1-0
Shardless BUG = 1-1-1
Canadian Thresh = 7-3-0
UW Miracles = 3-2-2
UWr Miracles = 3-1-1
Punishing Jund = 3-3-0
Straight Jund = 1-0-0
Merfolks = 6-1-0
43 Lands (Depths + Stage) = 2-1-1
Reanimator = 2-1-0
ANT = 4-6-0
T.E.S = 1-5-0
LED Ichorid = 3-2-0
Manaless Ichorid = 3-0-0
GW Maverick = 2-1-0
Punishing Maverick = 1-2-0
MUD = 2-3-0
Esperblade (TNN) = 4-1-0
Elves = 0-2-0

These matches were played on MWS with a friend of mine (in a two week period). Spirit has not been all that awesome, but he's good ocasionally. Combo is a really bad match, as expected. I did surprisingly well against Sneak and Show, my Karakas showed up a lot, and I always had that Knight or Oblivion Ring to SnT in. Elves is really hard, we need to get Jitte and Canonist asap to win, otherwise they'll just destroy it with Viridian Shaman and combo out next turn.

Punishing Fire is hard when they can assemble the combo early enough (by turn 2~3). Sylvan Safekeeper is working overtime, and Knight -> Wasteland should be a priority against these matches.

Path to Exile is the best card in my sideboard (by far). Every Delver deck is playing greedy non-basics manabases nowdays. Wasteland and Path really screw them over.

I've upped my Horizon Canopy to 3 (cutting 1 basic Plains and 1 Cavern of Souls). With Spirit, you can't rely on Sylvan Library, so Horizon Canopy is the next best thing (in GW). Just make sure you draw in your opponent's turn when Spirit is out.

Any comments or advice?

[Asthereal]

@Vandalize: I also still run a GW list, pretty standard stuff like you. No stupid Stage/Depths stuff.
My sideboard is way different though, but I'm pretty sure mine isn't optimal. My list:

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons (this card is BONKERS in Maverick!) /27

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine /13

4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland /21 //61!

Side:
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crop Rotation
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
2 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant /15

So what's different and why:
1. I don't run Spirit of the Labyrinth. It seems alright, but apart from hosing Brainstorm it doesn't do much.
2. Point 1 allows me to still run 2x Sylvan Library, which is nice.
3. In the current meta, 4x Mother of Runes seems absolutely necessary. I run my Safekeeper on side.
4. I run 2x Elspeth on side, which seems really strong versus slower TNN decks.
5. My one-of Birds of Paradise is there to have an additional turn 1 play, and it carries Swords nicely. I still wanted a cheap flyer, but I cut Scryb Ranger as I felt it wasn't a big enough threat and the utility didn't have enough impact. Note you usually have to Zenith for it, which costs 3 already, and takes away the flash shenanigans. I rather have Ooze or Pridemage in like 99% of the cases.
6. My sideboard is stacked with utility guys, as you can see. They can replace guys I don't need, so my creature count stays high, but I get the utility I need postboard.
7. Crop Rotation is my trump card. I use it to fetch up Bog or Karakas when I need them, and I also board it in against Elves, where I have to be FAST, and I use it to fetch Cradle.
(8. Personal taste: it may seem weird, but I don't run Canopies. They get wasted, cost life points, and I rarely used them for card draw anyway. I rather use fetch to fill up the yard and get basics.)

[Arsenal]

I'm still on GW Zenith and have been loving Dark Depths/Thespian Stage as a 1-of. It give me an alternate win condition when the ground gets mucked up and it allows me to threaten lethal literally out of nowhere if I have an active KotR (gotta love Scryb Ranger).

[IL_casual]

Dark depths/thespian stage is a real thing. Ive been using the dd/ts combo on various occasions...
stalled ground game.
A hail mary throw against a lethal turn.(outraced a projenitus in play).
Someone mentioned a few pages back that maze of it saves you 1 turn. But playing the dd combo just finishes and wins the game for you.

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[Asthereal]

Unless your Knight doesn't stick and you are stuck with one part of the combo.
Or they Waste in response to the trigger.
Or they Karakas/Jace bounce the Marit Lage.
I could go on.

Yes Stage/Depths will sometimes win you the game. And yes, it will also sometimes lose you the game.
More importantly, every time you go for Marit Lage try asking yourself the question: could I have won another way?
And the question I always asked myself when I had a combo piece in my opening hard: what other card could that have been?

For stalled boards I have equipment, Mother of Runes, Sigarda and Elspeth.
Cards that are all good on their own as well, and all improve the deck in general.
Sigarda is the worst here, but just Knight-fetch up a Cradle and Zenith for X=5 once. Trust me, it feels good.

(Edit: you shouldn't run into Progenitus when you play in a normal competitive tournament.)

[Arsenal]

I'm really not losing anything by running the Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage combo. Again, it's there for when I need to win ASAP or if the ground gets stalled. It's a 2 card investment that has a much higher rate of return than if I ran +1 Path to Exile, +1 Cavern of Souls (which is what I cut for the combo). Here's my list:

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary

2 Sylvan Library

2 Umezawa’s Jitte

4 Green Sun’s Zenith

1 Crop Rotation
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Maze of Ith
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian’s Stage
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

Also, there's no such thing as getting "stuck" with one part of the combo as the combo is just a land that taps for mana. This isn't the same as having a fatty stuck in your hand with no Show and Tell. If I draw Thespian's Stage and no Dark Depths... I just play the land and proceed to play Magic? And I'm running 4 KotR + 1 Crop Rotation as tutors should I elect to go for the 20/20... but I can just as easily not and still proceed with Maverick's normal plan of attack. It adds versatility, flexibility while taking NOTHING away from the core of the deck. For the 3-color Maverick lists, I understand not having room for the combo, but for the GW lists, I'm baffled as to why everyone isn't running this. It's been nothing but excellent for me.

[IL_casual]

(Edit: you shouldn't run into Progenitus when you play in a normal competitive tournament.)

Last time I heard... elves are used in a normal competitive tournament.

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[Asthereal]

Also, there's no such thing as getting "stuck" with one part of the combo as the combo is just a land that taps for mana. This isn't the same as having a fatty stuck in your hand with no Show and Tell.
Dark Depths doesn't, so in that case, yes it is exactly the same as a fatty in hand with no S&T. And Stage doesn't tap for G or W, so it can stop you from playing Magic.

And I'm running ... 1 Crop Rotation
Main deck. This card is very doubtful as a main deck choice if you DON'T run the combo. So I feel you have invested 3 cards already.

... but I can just as easily not and still proceed with Maverick's normal plan of attack. It adds versatility, flexibility while taking NOTHING away from the core of the deck. For the 3-color Maverick lists, I understand not having room for the combo, but for the GW lists, I'm baffled as to why everyone isn't running this. It's been nothing but excellent for me.
I'm sure it has been for you. But for me it has been a win-more mostly. And the notion that it takes away nothing is just a misconception, as proven above. It's a trade-off, a pro's/con's analysis. You feel it has more pro's, I feel it has more con's.

Comparing lists, something else caught my eye: you play Maze of Ith main. Why?
You are already playing a couple of combo lands. Don't you think you should take that thing to the sideboard?

In total the differences are:
+1 Maze of Ith, +1 Stage, +1 Depths, +1 Crop Rotation, +1 Jitte, +1 Cavern of Souls, +1 Scryb Ranger (60 cards)
-1 SoFaI, -1 SoFaF, -3 SFM, -2 Fetch lands, -1 Birds of Paradise (61 cards)

Trade-off:
My early turns run more smoothely (more stable mana base, one extra mana dork).
I have more staying power in fair matchups (SFM into equipment = card advantage).
You have the combo for more explosive kills.
(We cannot discuss sideboards yet, since you didn't post yours.)


Edit: A Il_casual: Elves shouldn't need Progenitus against you. They swarm the board and Hoof you.
You try to prevent that by using Teeg, Canonist and removal. Teeg effectively stops Zenith and Order, so getting Teeg online is the priority.
If I were an Elves player, I doubt I'd actually side in Progenitus. I would rather have ways to prevent Teeg from getting into play/removing Teeg from play.
What am I missing?

[Arsenal]

I've always disliked SFM in Maverick. It prevents us from advancing our board for a turn and we'll be receiving all of the SFM-TNN splash hate while be being not as well equipped to handle it (ie. we don't run counters or discard). I'd much rather just curve out/GSZ for 2 on turn 3 than hold up mana for SFM activation.

Maze of Ith is still pretty good. It's served as a pseudo-Karakas in the Reanimator matchup and with Thespian's Stage, having 2 Maze of Ith can just outgrind the opponent until I either (a.) overwhelm the board with dudes/Jitte or (b.) swing with a 20/20.

One card I tinkered with for a minute was Bow of Nylea. That thing was basically Jitte #3 whenever I got it on board, it literally took over games while not even needing a creature to do so. All abilities were always relevant and it made our small-ish dudes much more potent on offense. I wish I could run it, maybe I could cut the Maze of Ith for it... idk, Maze is sooooo good when it's good.

[IL_casual]

Edit: A Il_casual: Elves shouldn't need Progenitus against you. They swarm the board and Hoof you.
You try to prevent that by using Teeg, Canonist and removal. Teeg effectively stops Zenith and Order, so getting Teeg online is the priority.
If I were an Elves player, I doubt I'd actually side in Progenitus. I would rather have ways to prevent Teeg from getting into play/removing Teeg from play.
What am I missing?

If I have an engineered plague in play.they cant use craterhoof to kill me. Hence the need for progenitus as an out for them.

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[Asthereal]

... I have an engineered plague in play ...
Discussing GW here. Not that I'd ever consider playing that combo in a Gwb shell though. Straining the mana base waaay too much for my taste. :wink:

@Arsenal: in certain metas Maze can be awesome, but where I'm from, Maze is useful maybe in 50% of the matches tops.
I do like SFM, but mostly because I like equipment a lot in this deck. I do wait with casting SFM usually. It's just lovely to have a row of guys, Knight-fetch up Cradle, cast SFM, cast a Sword, equip it to a guy and strike, all in one turn. Also, if there's other usueful stuff to do, I'll use my turn for that of course. Comparing lists, my SFMs are your Maze, Depths and Crop Rotation. those don't develop your board much either, unless you get the combo out obviously. :cool:

[Arsenal]

Right, but the difference is that my cards insta-win out of nowhere whereas SFM --> Equipment is probably the most prepared for line of play in Legacy right now. Pre-TNN, SFM never felt right in Maverick (similar to Tarmogoyf) to me. Post-TNN, with SFM/Equipment hate on the ready by every deck, I'd certainly not run it.

[Asthereal]

Right, but the difference is that my cards insta-win out of nowhere whereas SFM --> Equipment is probably the most prepared for line of play in Legacy right now. Pre-TNN, SFM never felt right in Maverick (similar to Tarmogoyf) to me. Post-TNN, with SFM/Equipment hate on the ready by every deck, I'd certainly not run it.
I'm more concerned with the TNN hate (Golgari Charm, Zealous Persecution).
Artifact hate is fine. It'll leave me a Squire up. And I board Witness against those decks usually, so I can retrieve lost swords.

Edit: I don't agree with your "instawin" by the way. There's about a million things that stop the combo, two of which are played by around 50% of the meta (StP, Wasteland).

[Arsenal]

Then you obviously haven't played with the combo. If you have, you'd know that your opponent's will rarely sit on their Wastelands versus you in the early/mid game and spot removal doesn't work when I have Mother of Runes. And if they are sitting on their Wastelands, not taking you off colors, then you're winning that battle by just playing out Maverick unmolested by mana disruption.

[ahg113]

@Arsenal - while I typically like what you have to say, and hold no malice toward the state of Wisconsin (how happy are the Badgers to not close out the season against PSU anymore?), I keep seeing your name and it makes me want to vomit, see red. I'm a newly made Tottenham fan, and Arsenal is the devil. North London, wut?!

I hope you fall to the bottom of every table you participate in.

[Arsenal]

@Arsenal - while I typically like what you have to say, and hold no malice toward the state of Wisconsin (how happy are the Badgers to not close out the season against PSU anymore?), I keep seeing your name and it makes me want to vomit, see red. I'm a newly made Tottenham fan, and Arsenal is the devil. North London, wut?!

I hope you fall to the bottom of every table you participate in.

hahaha, I actually get that alot (I use this name on other forums too). Although to be honest, I'm not much of a soccer (football) fan, but a HUGE Metal Gear Solid fan, so... yeah. :laugh:

[IL_casual]

[QUOTE=Asthereal;791284]
Discussing GW here. Not that I'd ever consider playing that combo in a Gwb shell though. Straining the mana base waaay too much for my taste. :wink:

No, we were discussing why progenitus is not supposed to be seen in a "normal competitive" tournament. And I just showed you the reason why they board in one. Hope I was able to help you on that.

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[IL_casual]

[QUOTE=Asthereal;791284]
Discussing GW here. Not that I'd ever consider playing that combo in a Gwb shell though. Straining the mana base waaay too much for my taste. :wink:

No, we were discussing why progenitus is not supposed to be seen in a "normal competitive" tournament. And I just showed you the reason why they board in one. Hope I was able to help you on that.

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[MBTL90]

Dark Depths doesn't, so in that case, yes it is exactly the same as a fatty in hand with no S&T. And Stage doesn't tap for G or W, so it can stop you from playing Magic.

Main deck. This card is very doubtful as a main deck choice if you DON'T run the combo. So I feel you have invested 3 cards already.

I'm sure it has been for you. But for me it has been a win-more mostly. And the notion that it takes away nothing is just a misconception, as proven above. It's a trade-off, a pro's/con's analysis. You feel it has more pro's, I feel it has more con's.

Comparing lists, something else caught my eye: you play Maze of Ith main. Why?
You are already playing a couple of combo lands. Don't you think you should take that thing to the sideboard?

In total the differences are:
+1 Maze of Ith, +1 Stage, +1 Depths, +1 Crop Rotation, +1 Jitte, +1 Cavern of Souls, +1 Scryb Ranger (60 cards)
-1 SoFaI, -1 SoFaF, -3 SFM, -2 Fetch lands, -1 Birds of Paradise (61 cards)

Trade-off:
My early turns run more smoothely (more stable mana base, one extra mana dork).
I have more staying power in fair matchups (SFM into equipment = card advantage).
You have the combo for more explosive kills.
(We cannot discuss sideboards yet, since you didn't post yours.)


Edit: A Il_casual: Elves shouldn't need Progenitus against you. They swarm the board and Hoof you.
You try to prevent that by using Teeg, Canonist and removal. Teeg effectively stops Zenith and Order, so getting Teeg online is the priority.
If I were an Elves player, I doubt I'd actually side in Progenitus. I would rather have ways to prevent Teeg from getting into play/removing Teeg from play.
What am I missing?

Maze doesn't tap for mana either, so if you cut a maze for dd, then the opportunity cost of adding the combo is simply a colorless land vs not, which especially in GW isn't really that big a deal. There are ways to interact with the combo obviously, but it has in general proven strong to me. If they try to use wasteland to disrupt the combo, just get a wasteland of your own before going off. You can protect your thespian's stage by copying a basic in response to wasteland. Mom/safekeeper can protect the merit lage itself, and Most of maverick's early creatures will draw removal anyways, leaving them with hopefully few in hand. There will be games where you are forced to go for the combo or die, and they have outs to it, but those games are probably games you aren't winning, nor games where a single maze would have won you the game anyways.

[Asthereal]

@Il_casual: If you play GW Mav, you can only encounter Progenitus against Elves, IF they board it in.
I feel they shouldn't board it in against GW Mav, because Hoof is usually better, and you have answers to Order.
Hence my remark "You shouldn't encounter Progenitus in competitive play".

@Arsenal: Sure, if you draw the nuts and your opponent wastes his Wasteland on something else, all will work out. Note that your Knight doesn't always survive either. And if you get to use your Knight twice without getting it killed by the opponent, the Knight could usually have won by itself as well. Except for against a live Rest in Peace, but we have Pridemages for that thing.

I really feel it's very situational. Having an active Knight that doesn't get killed by the opponent is usually enough anyway. Let's agree to disagree. :smile:

[lavafrogg]

I feel like bringing in progenitus against maverick is a good idea game 2 considering most of mavericks hopes of winning are etgersworn canonist and jitte. Progenitus doesn't care about either but is soft to gaddock teeg so it really depends on what hate the elves player boards against.

[Zombie]

I'd bring in Prog vs. Maverick for sure.

[IL_casual]

[QUOTE=Asthereal;791465]@Il_casual: If you play GW Mav, you can only encounter Progenitus against Elves, IF they board it in.
I feel they shouldn't board it in against GW Mav, because Hoof is usually better, and you have answers to Order.
Hence my remark "You shouldn't encounter Progenitus in competitive play".

Maybe you should play more competitive tournaments then, as any decent maverick player with enough exposure would know that elves' gameplan against maverick is progenitus.

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[Asthereal]

Maybe you should play more competitive tournaments then, as any decent maverick player with enough exposure would know that elves' gameplan against maverick is progenitus.
Maybe I should play Maverick again, you mean. I played a lot of Mav, but right now I feel Team America seems a lot better placed in the meta. Made it to the finals last month in a GP Trial, so I'm not switching any time soon. :tongue:

Apparently several Elves players board in Progenitus against Maverick. I would advise against it, but whatever. Fine, I'll admit there's a chance you encounter a Progenitus in competitive play. How big a chance? You would have to play against Elves, which is like 4% of the meta, and they would have to board Proggie in, and they would have to Natural Order before you get Teeg online. And that's an argument for playing Depths/Stage combo how exactly?

[IL_casual]

Maybe I should play Maverick again, you mean. I played a lot of Mav, but right now I feel Team America seems a lot better placed in the meta. Made it to the finals last month in a GP Trial, so I'm not switching any time soon. :tongue:

Apparently several Elves players board in Progenitus against Maverick. I would advise against it, but whatever. Fine, I'll admit there's a chance you encounter a Progenitus in competitive play. How big a chance? You would have to play against Elves, which is like 4% of the meta, and they would have to board Proggie in, and they would have to Natural Order before you get Teeg online. And that's an argument for playing Depths/Stage combo how exactly?

If youre still asking that , just read the previous comments since apparently, youre still having difficulties grasping the concept of the combo itself.

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[Asthereal]

And you're having difficulties grasping the concept of being nice to another person.
I'm going to stop discussing with you because every word you spit out is an insult.

[IL_casual]

(Edit: you shouldn't run into Progenitus when you play in a normal competitive tournament.)

This. Dont be a condascending knowitall if you don't want to be slighted yourself. Thanks.


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[Asthereal]

One competitive deck plays one Progenitus on side, and you feel insulted when I mention that you shouldn't run into Progenitus normally. I argue that I don't think that this one deck should board the card in against GW Maverick, then two possible Elves players mention that they would. So I admit that you were probably right, but that it doesn't matter too much, because it's still just one deck, and one sideboard card.

I never called you inexperienced. I never mentioned you have no clue how to play Maverick properly. I sure as hell never called you names.

I'm sorry, but right now it appears it is you who have been acting condescendingly.

[IL_casual]

One competitive deck plays one Progenitus on side, and you feel insulted when I mention that you shouldn't run into Progenitus normally. I argue that I don't think that this one deck should board the card in against GW Maverick, then two possible Elves players mention that they would. So I admit that you were probably right, but that it doesn't matter too much, because it's still just one deck, and one sideboard card.

I never called you inexperienced. I never mentioned you have no clue how to play Maverick properly. I sure as hell never called you names.

I'm sorry, but right now it appears it is you who have been acting condescendingly.

It seems as tho we both may have started on the wrong foot. Let me be the first to apologize since your initial remarks made it sound that I don't participate in "normal competitive" tournaments, hence my answers.

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[Asthereal]

Apology accepted. :smile: Let's forget about all our posts so far and start over.

I didn't mean to imply that you don't participate in competitive tournaments. I don't know where you play, but where I play even the smallest local tourney I attend contains almost only strong decks. There's always one or two iffy Affinity / Burn decks, and one or two weird homebrews, but it's mostly just playable decks, that can win any tournament if piloted correctly and with the needed bit of luck. I recon that's how most Legacy torunaments are, because the beginners just don't play Legacy. It's too expensive.

What I meant with my remark about Progenitus, is roughly comparable to Magus of the Moon for Team America. There's one deck that plays them, and yes they will kill me every now and then when I just don't have an answer, but to tune my deck to be better against Magus of the Moon just isn't worth it. It's a fringe card that I will encounter seldomly, and if I do, there's ways to beat it in my current list anyway.

Maverick has Gaddock Teeg, removal and equipment to try and beat Elves. I didn't think Elves would want to board in Progenitus because if Teeg lands, it's just a dead card, and Elves has countless ways to hardcast the other Order targets. It feels like a high risk, high reward kind of card to board in, and considering that Elves already has a good matchup against GW Mav (at least, Elves killed me quite easily in testing), it shouldn't need to board in Proggie. Seriously, I don't know about you, but I get Hoofed all the time by those green bastards. I usually pick up a game with the help of Teeg and a hit with a Sworded Knight, but I rarely manage to win two in a round. But I'm not an Elves player, and others mentioned that they do board Proggie in, so perhaps I'm wrong here.

If we manage to stall the board against Elves, the Stage/Depths combo could help win the game. But so could the Knight we already have to fetch the combo up. It's just a matter of attaching a pro-green Sword to it, or jumping it with Elspeth. Or getting Sigarda and attaching the equipment to that. The thing is, we don't usually get to stall the board. Finding Canonist is sheer luck (we play two of those, usually). Without Canonist on our side, they will just Glimpse into 14 guys and finish "Empty the Warrens" style (or hardcast Hoof for the showboat).

I really feel the times that the combo is the only way we can win in a board stall against Elves will even out the times we take an involuntary mulligan because of having Dark Depths in our opening hand. The latter happens against every deck, and the first only happens IF we manage to stall the board, AND we don't have another way to break it. (Note: I don't have statistics on how often we manage to use the combo to steal a totally lost game. Humans tend to overestimate those awesome wins, so we need hard numbers there.)

[IL_casual]

Agreed.")

I wouod have to agree with you regarding the proggy legend in that this card is only seen in Elves.Im almost always dead g1 coz of hoof but come game 2, where mavs board in canonist,dueling grounds and removal against elves, its hard for them to gain enough traction to hoof us. And just like our dd/stage combo, Its their 1-2 shot win against a stalled board.")

Ive only tested the dd/stage combo for a few weeks but suprisingly, it really does sometimes give us that "pull the rug from under" win.

I guess this is really a matter of preference but like the others, I also boarded out my maze of ith(depths)and a savannah(stage) for those two cards.

Id like maverick players opinion on spirit of the labyrinth. Playing with it for few days and it seems pretty underwhelming. I removed my sylvans and etc for 3 slots into my mainboard
Honestly, thalia seems better.

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[Asthereal]

Id like maverick players opinion on spirit of the labyrinth. Playing with it for few days and it seems pretty underwhelming. I removed my sylvans and etc for 3 slots into my mainboard
Honestly, thalia seems better.
+1.

Against fair decks, I like Sylvan Library better. It's not as vulnerable and the card draw is epic.
Against TES, the Spirit doesn't do much, because TES is way too fast to have issues with a cantrip hoser. Spirit doesn't stop it from going off, so any other hate bear is better.
Against ANT I've had moments where it helped a bit, hosing their cantrips, but it still dies to sideboard Dread of Night.
Against OmniHalls it seemed to work best. Relatively fast clock and stopped the Enter combo nicely. Vulnerable to Wish into bounce though.
It also won me a game against SneakShow because Sneaked in Grisel coudn't draw a new hand.

All in all, I'm not impressed. Thalia does more, Teeg does more, Canonist also does more. Even Revoker seems better (stops LED/Grisel draw/Sneak Attack/planeswalkers and so on). Also I really hated to drop Sylvan Library. Such an awesome card...

[Moroklumpen]

Have anyone tried Great Sable Stag in Maverick? It seems like it could have merit in a TNN metagame, especially when BUG decks are popular. It dodges counters, Jace, Abrupt Decay and blue blockers, all of which are troublesome. RUG can only interact with burn and nonblue blockers; BUG with Liliana, Tarmogoyf and little else; Merfolk basically can't unless they splash something or play Dismember. Patriot Delver still has its removal, but at least counters and blockers (other than SFM) are rendered obsolete.

Also, have anyone tried a light splash of blue? Mostly for stuff like SB Spell Pierce, Meddling Mage, Detention Sphere and Trygon Predator (which I actually think is maindeckable). I've seen several people talk about it, but no lists or tournament reports that I have noticed.

[IL_casual]

Played in a small tournament with and came out 2nd against 20 players.
Decklist
3 deathrite shaman
1 birds of paradise
3 mother of runes
1 sylvan safekeeper
2 qasali pridemage
2 scavenging ooze
1 scryb ranger
1 gaddock teeg
3 spirit of the labyrinth
4 knight of the reliquary
2 umezawa jitte
4 swords to plowshares
4 thoughtseize
1 life from the loam
4 green sun zenith

4 wasteland
3 verdant catacomb
3 savannah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths
4 windswept heath
1 dryad arbor
1plains
1 forest
1 karakas
1 horizon canopy
Sb
2 enlightened tutor
2 engineered plague
1 zealous persecution
1 oblivion ring
2 choke
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 surgical extraction
1 aethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg


Game 1 vs rug delver
An early delver came out turn 1, just waiting for a spell to flip itself over.fortunately, luck was on my side and the delver didnt flip for a few turns.allowing me to build shore up defences of my own(scryb ranger) and eventually beating him down with a fat knight of the reliquary
2nd game
-3 spirit of the labyrinth
+3 thalia
+1 zealous persecution
- 1 qasali pridemage
A delver and a tropical island came in for my opponents first turn. I dropped a deathrite shaman and passed. 2nd turn my oppenents delver flipped and started his aerial assault, me taking 3 life. On my turn, I attempted to wasteland his tropical island, which as then stifled. I played a birds of paradise and passed the turn. A tarmogoyf came into play and another 3 life loss from the delver happened on the next turn.
I successfully wastelanded one of his lands the next turn leaving him w just 1 land.i sworded his delver on my turn,cast a thalia and passed. the next few turns was my opponent trying to find mana but was left mana screwed and I took the game a few turns later.
Notes: wastelanding rug is almost always the key to defeating them. Just be aware that some builds carry stifles with them.be wary of open mana before fetching/ wasteland.
Game 2 vs rug delver(janky version)
2 delvers kept the beats bringing my life down to four.him with 1 card in hand(price of progress).
On my turn. I have the following creatures in play. 1 knight of the reliquary,1 deathrite shaman and 1 scryb ranger.lands are 1 savannah, 1 forest and 1 plains. I know my opponent would use price of progress(saw it from a delver) the second i passed the turn.i dropped the bayou and passed, he casted price of progress.in response i sacced my bayou for a wasteland.wastelanded his volcanic island and took 2,bringing my life down to 2.
On my opponents turn, he bolted my scryb ranger, hoping to just fly both delvers to victory.me down to 2,my line of play in response was
Tap savannah,sac bayou using knight ability,fetch dark depths, tap forest and plains(3mana). Return savannah to hand(scryb ability);untap knight; sac plains and fetch thespians stage,using the 2 mana to trigger the marit lage. I then used my remaining mana to gain 2 life.(4)
Seeing that he cant deal lethal and would die the next turn, he passed the turn.
On my turn i dropped savannah. And attacked both my 10/10 kotr and 20/20 marit lage. He was forced to block the marit lage with a delver and bought his life down to 5.
On his turn.he attacked me again bringing my life down to 1. With only 1 land in play he brainstormed.saw his options..showed me his drawn cards of volcanic island, lightning bolt,goblin guide...and conceded.
Rnd 2: this game went to time and I won the game due to my 1st rnd win.
Game 3: Reanimator

I played a deathrite shaman 1st turn(which he forced of will) and passed.A god hand fir st turn lotus petal, underground sea, entomb, reanimate almost always wins for the reanimator player. On my turn i sword to plowshared the griselbrand, as expected he drew 7 and searched for a force of will.fortunately the magic gods were on my side and either he wasnt able to get a fow, or no blue card to sac it for. Exiled griselbrand.")
During his turn he played a land,passed the turn and dropped another griselbrand and other cards during his discard step.on my turn i casted scavenging ooze and passed the turn.3rd turn he casted exhume but didnt notice that i have an untapped deathrite shaman for mana, which i activated for mana and used it to eat his only creature in the graveyard using scavenging ooze. He conceded when he realized he wont be able to get any more creature from the graveyard due to my oozes with ample mana.
Game 2
+3 thalia
- 3 spirit of the labyrinth
+ 2 surgical extraction
- 2 umezawa jitte
+ 2 choke
- 1 qasali pridemage
- 1 mother of runes
+1 oblivion ring
- 1 mother of runes
Game 2
He passed the turn. With this line of play.he almost always has a griselbrand but no way to bin his creatures and he has no lands to play.
My turn i casted a deathrite shaman.he forced of willed it. Im not sure if that is the correct play since his line of play was to go over the 7 card limit. During his turn he played an underground sea and lotus petal. My thinking is that since he was forced to use the fow, he kept a no land hand with lotus petal ,reanimate,griselbrand,fow and his line of play would be to bin the griselbrand during his discard phase.
On my turn I wasteland his underground sea and cast thalia. The next few turns and still unable to find a land,he conceded soon after.
Game 4 shardless bug
Game 1 I was drowned in Card advantage due to shardless agent into ancenstral vision and promptly died afterwards.
Game 2
+ 3 thalia
- 1 qasali pridemage
- 1 scavenging ooze
-2 umezawas jitte
- 1 mother of runes
+ 2 choke
I was in in the heat of the game with a plump knight of the reliquary, a scryb ranger and a sylvan safekeepeer.he has a tarmogoyf and two untapped bayous in play.he just cast liliana of the veil using his wasteland and two undergroud seas and made me force to sacrifice my dryad arbor. Seeing my opportunity fue to the tapped wasteland,i made the crucial error of attempting my marit lage kill without protecting my knight. I had plain, savannah,verdant catacomb in play. I tapped the plains.tapped the reliquary and sacrificed the plains for dark depths.i then tapped and bounced my savannah to untap my reliquary.when i tapped a sacrificed my fetchland, he responded by abrupt decaying my knight. With my fetchland still on stack, i had no other land to sacrifice to protect my knight except for the dark depths. That was the turning point of the game since on my turn i just attacked with my scryb ranged passed the turn.on his turn, triggering an acestral vision, he was able to abrupt decay my knight of the reliquary and deal the beats with tarmogoyf and shardless agent.
I ended up with 2nd place and store credits. I exchanged my credits for 3 born of the gods pax. ")
Notes :
Spirit of the labyrinth is overrated. I dont even think its even worth it in sideboarded games, let along Mainboard. My general idea was to prevent blue decks from cantripping but with 2cc , its too slow to prevent instant cantrips. And without flash, its too easy to play around. Im shelving it on my next tournament and bringing back my sylvan libraries.
Dark depths / marit lage is a real thing. It bailed me out in lost games and provided me a surprise win against stalled boards.
Im still contemplating on tweaking my deck to switch to punishing dark maverick like the one that topped the BOM. Altho im not sure if red is the best support in a TNN meta.


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[Anfylion]

Hi, I wanted to know if anyone tried Wing Shards and what were the results

it's just worse than Zealous Persecution, in that function?

[buloid]

i find that wing shards' window is too small and the function too narrow. though it may be a blow-out vs some decks, Zealous can do that function even during your main phase AND act as a pump spell if you're going for an alpha strike or as added combat tricks.

[ironclad8690]

If you are playing black, Zealous Persecution and E. Tutor for Engineered Plague are better than wing shards. I have seen a couple of people in local tournaments using wing shards and celestial flare, but they are only running GW; can't really speak to how good it would be as I play Punishing. When you get to the third color, I like running Engineered Explosives to take out TNN, and it is also a great card against elves anyways.

[Anfylion]

Thanks ironclad and buloid for the resps,

I asked because I was playing straight g/w, but I think a B splash is inevitable nowadays (although I personally did not like)

I did not have good results playing g/w, because i lost against all strategies that could have been solved with Zealous persecution, or Discard

- Elves
- TNN
- 18 Goblins tokens in T1

[IL_casual]

Thanks ironclad and buloid for the resps,

I asked because I was playing straight g/w, but I think a B splash is inevitable nowadays (although I personally did not like)

I did not have good results playing g/w, because i lost against all strategies that could have been solved with Zealous persecution, or Discard

- Elves
- TNN
- 18 Goblins tokens in T1

With only a G/W shell. Ive managed to fend off swarms(elves,gobs,warrens) by playing dueling grounds in the sideboard .hope that helps.

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[Asthereal]

I tried Wing Shards in the board in a tourney once, and it sucked big time.
I had expected a lot from it then, but it just turned out to be a misjudgement from my part.
Main reason: You never ever want to keep WW1 open during opposing turns.

[IL_casual]

Played in a small tournament with and came out 2nd against 12 players.
Decklist
3 deathrite shaman
1 birds of paradise
3 mother of runes
1 sylvan safekeeper
2 qasali pridemage
2 scavenging ooze
2 scryb ranger
1 gaddock teeg
2 sylvan library
4 knight of the reliquary
2 umezawa jitte
4 swords to plowshares
4 thoughtseize
1 life from the loam
4 green sun zenith

4 wasteland
3 verdant catacomb
3 savannah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths
4 windswept heath
1 dryad arbor
1plains
1 forest
1 karakas
1 horizon canopy
Sb
2 enlightened tutor
2 engineered plague
1 zealous persecution
1 circle of protection : red
2 choke
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 surgical extraction
1 aethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg

Game 1 - Reanimator
PIaying 1st, I played bayou and thouhtseized my opponent revealing careful study, eleshnorn, 2 griselbrand, 2 lands and entomb. I chose careful study and passed the turn. My opponent played a polluted delta and passed his turn. 2nd turn I casted sylvan library and passed. On his 3rd turn my opponent was able to reanimate a griselbrand,bringing his life down to 12. He then drew 7, bringing his life down to 5. He then casted 2 pithing needles(who mainboards this card??) Naming karakas and knight of the reliquary. Flipping 3 cards, the lucky gods gave me a karakas. I made a few dramatic bluffs, casting my qasali pridemage, telling him Im just going thru the motion until he kills me. He allowed my qasali pridemage. I sacced my pridemage to his pithing needle(karakas), played my karakas and bounced his griselbrand. A knight of the reliquary on my next turn sealed the game.
Game 2
-2 umezawa jitte
-2 sylvan library
-1 scryb ranger

+ 2 surgical extraction
+ 3 thalia
My opponent plays a polluted delta and passes. I cast a deathrite shaman, which he fows. A second turn scavenging ooze was allowed to resolve.End of turn he entombed a tidespout tyrant and reanimated it during his turn, casting a lotus petal and bouncing my ooze. During my turn. I sword to plowshare his tidespout and recast my ooze. He spent his next turn drawing cards and passing. When I defeated him, he showed me his hand and told me he wasnt able to find any discarders/binners.
Game 2 -Belcher
My opponent went first. He cast gitaxian probe.> binned a simian grunt for R, > cast tinder wall and sacced:RR> chrome mox and imprinted an enter the warrens:RRR. > Rite of flame RRRR. BelcheR. >>>LED RRR. Good game 1.
Game 2.
+ 3 thalia
+ 1 canonist
+ 2 surgical extraction
-2 jitte
-1 life from the loam
-2 sylvan library
-1 swords to plowshares
I cast deathrite shaman on my 1st turn.
On his turn he did something and ended up with a belcher 3 spare mana. Good game 2.
Notes: I hate playing belcher.
Game 3 - Goblins
I was mana screwed game 1. Wastelands and rishadan ports really messes up your mana. With a resplved aether vial, its only a matter of time before they overrun you .
Round 2
+ 2 engineered plague
+ 2 enlightened tutor
+ 1 zealous persecution
+ 1 cop: red
- 1 qasali pridemage
- 1 scryb ranger
- 1 scavenging ooze
- 1 gaddock teeg
- 2 sylvan libraru
A resolved engineered plague slowed my opponents attacks altho a steady stream of 2/2 (1/1 because of thr plague) goblins slowly whittled my life down to 10. A knight of the reliquary(4/4)was enough to prevent my opponent from attacking. On my turn I played my thespian stage and passed. During my opponents turn, he attempted to waste my thespian stage. In response i sacced my land for a dark depths and I won the next turn.
Round 3
I kept a hand of thoughtseize, Deathrite shaman, zealous persecution, 3 lands, green sun zenith
After mulling to 6, goblin lackey was my opponents first drop during his turn. On my turn, I thought about playing my deathrite shaman but i knew that if he ever has a tarfire or a pyrokinesis im screwed. I cast my thoughtseize. His hand was goblin matron, pyrokinesis, tarfire, Rishadan port. I calculated that if he cant draw a goblin on his next turn, his lackey would be useless and so I grabbed his goblin matron and passed the turn. On his turn, he cast aether vial, swung his goblin lackey...and passed the turn. I cast a deathrite shaman on my turn and passed the turn.on his turn, he cast tarfire on m drs. Swung with his goblin and dropped a gobin warchief. On my turn i played a verdant catacombs, cast thoughtseize to pick off his pyrokinesis and passed the turn. During his attack step he attacked both his warchief and lackey. I fetched a dryad arbor, blocked, and cast zealous persecution, killing both his lackey and warchief. On my turn i cast my reliquary and passed the turn.during his turn he was able to cast a ringleader, flipping 4 and getting a mogg fanatic and 2 piledrivers as cards. On my turn I green sun zenithed for a scryb ranger and passed the turn.after casting his ll his available goblins, at the end of his turn i was able to fetch for a dark depths, tap for 2 mana, bounce a bayou to untap my kotr and fetch for my thespians stage, triggering the marit lage sequence.he then took 20 damage on his next turn.
Last round - Junk
This is one of those grindy games where it's very difficult to remember the match but I won both games using Marit lage , flying over his creature filled board.
Notes:
Against decks with Lotv, always always leave an untapped fetchland when you have a singleton but fat threat i play. A liliana of the veil will force you to sacrifice a creature, allowing you to fetch a dryad arbor and sac it. The good news is that if he does not have a crutter of his own, you can kill the lotv on your turn using.g the creature the dryad arbor sacrificed for.
A mother of runes + scryb ranger is the nuts. More often than not, an opponent will use 2 removals on your mom to kill it, not aware that you can untap the mother of runes again from the scrub ranger, ultimately making him lose his 2 removals.
I still think maverick is still a top tiered deck, able to combat most fair decks and even has enough hate bears to win against unfair ones.
Marit lage once again proved his worth, beating opponents when they least expect it.
I removed my 3 spirit of the labyrinths mainboard as they proved to be not as useful in all my matches. Im still hoping for that legendary spirit of the labyrinth with flash in the next expansions.")




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[IL_casual]

Played in a small tournament with and came out 2nd against 12 players.
Decklist
3 deathrite shaman
1 birds of paradise
3 mother of runes
1 sylvan safekeeper
2 qasali pridemage
2 scavenging ooze
2 scryb ranger
1 gaddock teeg
2 sylvan library
4 knight of the reliquary
2 umezawa jitte
4 swords to plowshares
4 thoughtseize
1 life from the loam
4 green sun zenith

4 wasteland
3 verdant catacomb
3 savannah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
1 thespian stage
1 dark depths
4 windswept heath
1 dryad arbor
1plains
1 forest
1 karakas
1 horizon canopy
Sb
2 enlightened tutor
2 engineered plague
1 zealous persecution
1 circle of protection : red
2 choke
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 surgical extraction
1 aethersworn canonist
1 gaddock teeg

Game 1 - Reanimator
PIaying 1st, I played bayou and thouhtseized my opponent revealing careful study, eleshnorn, 2 griselbrand, 2 lands and entomb. I chose careful study and passed the turn. My opponent played a polluted delta and passed his turn. 2nd turn I casted sylvan library and passed. On his 3rd turn my opponent was able to reanimate a griselbrand,bringing his life down to 12. He then drew 7, bringing his life down to 5. He then casted 2 pithing needles(who mainboards this card??) Naming karakas and knight of the reliquary. Flipping 3 cards, the lucky gods gave me a karakas. I made a few dramatic bluffs, casting my qasali pridemage, telling him Im just going thru the motion until he kills me. He allowed my qasali pridemage. I sacced my pridemage to his pithing needle(karakas), played my karakas and bounced his griselbrand. A knight of the reliquary on my next turn sealed the game.
Game 2
-2 umezawa jitte
-2 sylvan library
-1 scryb ranger

+ 2 surgical extraction
+ 3 thalia
My opponent plays a polluted delta and passes. I cast a deathrite shaman, which he fows. A second turn scavenging ooze was allowed to resolve.End of turn he entombed a tidespout tyrant and reanimated it during his turn, casting a lotus petal and bouncing my ooze. During my turn. I sword to plowshare his tidespout and recast my ooze. He spent his next turn drawing cards and passing. When I defeated him, he showed me his hand and told me he wasnt able to find any discarders/binners.
Game 2 -Belcher
My opponent went first. He cast gitaxian probe.> binned a simian grunt for R, > cast tinder wall and sacced:RR> chrome mox and imprinted an enter the warrens:RRR. > Rite of flame RRRR. BelcheR. >>>LED RRR. Good game 1.
Game 2.
+ 3 thalia
+ 1 canonist
+ 2 surgical extraction
-2 jitte
-1 life from the loam
-2 sylvan library
-1 swords to plowshares
I cast deathrite shaman on my 1st turn.
On his turn he did something and ended up with a belcher 3 spare mana. Good game 2.
Notes: I hate playing belcher.
Game 3 - Goblins
I was mana screwed game 1. Wastelands and rishadan ports really messes up your mana. With a resplved aether vial, its only a matter of time before they overrun you .
Round 2
+ 2 engineered plague
+ 2 enlightened tutor
+ 1 zealous persecution
+ 1 cop: red
- 1 qasali pridemage
- 1 scryb ranger
- 1 scavenging ooze
- 1 gaddock teeg
- 2 sylvan libraru
A resolved engineered plague slowed my opponents attacks altho a steady stream of 2/2 (1/1 because of thr plague) goblins slowly whittled my life down to 10. A knight of the reliquary(4/4)was enough to prevent my opponent from attacking. On my turn I played my thespian stage and passed. During my opponents turn, he attempted to waste my thespian stage. In response i sacced my land for a dark depths and I won the next turn.
Round 3
I kept a hand of thoughtseize, Deathrite shaman, zealous persecution, 3 lands, green sun zenith
After mulling to 6, goblin lackey was my opponents first drop during his turn. On my turn, I thought about playing my deathrite shaman but i knew that if he ever has a tarfire or a pyrokinesis im screwed. I cast my thoughtseize. His hand was goblin matron, pyrokinesis, tarfire, Rishadan port. I calculated that if he cant draw a goblin on his next turn, his lackey would be useless and so I grabbed his goblin matron and passed the turn. On his turn, he cast aether vial, swung his goblin lackey...and passed the turn. I cast a deathrite shaman on my turn and passed the turn.on his turn, he cast tarfire on m drs. Swung with his goblin and dropped a gobin warchief. On my turn i played a verdant catacombs, cast thoughtseize to pick off his pyrokinesis and passed the turn. During his attack step he attacked both his warchief and lackey. I fetched a dryad arbor, blocked, and cast zealous persecution, killing both his lackey and warchief. On my turn i cast my reliquary and passed the turn.during his turn he was able to cast a ringleader, flipping 4 and getting a mogg fanatic and 2 piledrivers as cards. On my turn I green sun zenithed for a scryb ranger and passed the turn.after casting his ll his available goblins, at the end of his turn i was able to fetch for a dark depths, tap for 2 mana, bounce a bayou to untap my kotr and fetch for my thespians stage, triggering the marit lage sequence.he then took 20 damage on his next turn.
Last round - Junk
This is one of those grindy games where it's very difficult to remember the match but I won both games using Marit lage , flying over his creature filled board.
Notes:
Against decks with Lotv, always always leave an untapped fetchland when you have a singleton but fat threat i play. A liliana of the veil will force you to sacrifice a creature, allowing you to fetch a dryad arbor and sac it. The good news is that if he does not have a crutter of his own, you can kill the lotv on your turn using.g the creature the dryad arbor sacrificed for.
A mother of runes + scryb ranger is the nuts. More often than not, an opponent will use 2 removals on your mom to kill it, not aware that you can untap the mother of runes again from the scrub ranger, ultimately making him lose his 2 removals.
I still think maverick is still a top tiered deck, able to combat most fair decks and even has enough hate bears to win against unfair ones.
Marit lage once again proved his worth, beating opponents when they least expect it.
I removed my 3 spirit of the labyrinths mainboard as they proved to be not as useful in all my matches. Im still hoping for that legendary spirit of the labyrinth with flash in the next expansion.

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[ironclad8690]

Played a nearly identical Dark Punishing Maverick list to that of Fabian Gorzgen at a small 10 man tournament.

Round 1 Merfolk: Loss

G1 He opens up with Aether Vial, I durdle around and assemble marit lage the turn before he has lethal for the win

G2 I keep a hand with a dryad arbor as my second land drop. A few submerges later, I can't recover from the negative tempo and lose.

G3 Again with the submerges. This time on regular dorks and a knight, but not where I wanted to be. Never really see the punishing fires and swords to plowshares I need to pull it out.

I feel like I should be favored in this matchup, I just didn't get the draws.

Round 2: UR Delver: Win

G1 Things stall out with a scavenging ooze with a jitte vs a TNN with a Jitte. Eventually I am able to destroy the jitte and get across for some damage, but he gets another jitte on his TNN. Luckily I have him at 2, and I play a gaddock teeg. He plays a snapcaster targeting his Price of Progress, which I respond to by wasting one of my duals. I go down to 1 life, and he debates attacking with his TNN, which he can't do because the lifegain from my jitte will put me back at 2. He holds back, and I remove his Lavamancer and Snapcaster Mage (both were summoning sick), and I swing for lethal.

G2 I assemble punishing fire to take care of young pyromancer, eventaully marit lage comes down and ends things super quick.

Round 3: Reanimator: Win

G1: My opponent mulls down to 5, not really much of a game. I lead with DRS, followup with wasteland on his only land, and he scoops.

G2: This one was better, I remember playing a pithing needle naming griselbrand, and then surgical extracting an Elesh Norn. Eventually Marit Lage does her thing.

Round 4: Reanimator: Win

G1: I am completely slaughtered by grisebrand and Iona

G2: I pull of a key surgical extraction on a griselbrand, and he doesn't draw enough gas to keep up with my board

G3: I pithing needle griselbrand right away, he gets an iona in his yard, I topdeck surgical extraction like a champ and use it in response to his exhume. He massacres my board of knight knight knight mother of runes noble hierarch and birds of paradise. I get a scavenging ooze off the top, and proceed to kill him at a reasonable pace.



All in all, a good night of legacy and I walk away with $35 and 2nd place. The merfolk player went on to be undefeated, and got the bulk of the store credit for coming in 1st.

I love the deck, but am still not sure on the numbers. Fabian's list is the most streamlined, but I really like playing stoneforge mystic and at least sword of fire and ice. I also am not sure about the high number of mana dorks, usually I play 4-5 rather than 6, but I don't know.

I am going to keep prepping for SCG LA in March, and I will keep you guys posted with my results.

[ironclad8690]

Are you guys running enlightened tutor boards or more specific boards?

I really liked playing a streamlined 3 Surgical Extraction, 3 Zealous Persecution, 2 Ethersworn Canonist, 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 2 Oblivion Ring, 2 Armageddon sideboard in my punishing maverick deck, but I switched to E tutor to hate out more decks (like enchantress and other random decks).

I am curious to see what the other maverick players out there think (those left of us at least).

[allek]

Are you guys running enlightened tutor boards or more specific boards?

I really liked playing a streamlined 3 Surgical Extraction, 3 Zealous Persecution, 2 Ethersworn Canonist, 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 2 Oblivion Ring, 2 Armageddon sideboard in my punishing maverick deck, but I switched to E tutor to hate out more decks (like enchantress and other random decks).

I am curious to see what the other maverick players out there think (those left of us at least).

I'm back on 4 Mindbreak Trap since it's the only reliable option against TES/Oops all spells. As with all hatecards, you need to attack from many angles at once. I play 2 Enlightened Tutor and a mix of Canonist, Rest in Piece, Pithing Needle, Choke and Krosan Grip. Splashing for black never did anything for me so no persecutions. Rest in Piece is an absolute beast and I board in both copies + 2 tutor against all goyf/shaman decks. Still keep Knights and use them for mana disruption/acceleration. Anything playing TNN is winnable since those decks are soft to choke and without equipment, that guy does very little.

Sweepers (persecution, golgari charm) are a nuisance postboard but as always, keep good hands and play conservatively. Miracles are a tough one though...

[ironclad8690]

Tied for 1st at a small local tournament with this list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Aven Mindcensor

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Life from the Loam

2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa

Sideboard:
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Rest In Peace
1 Armageddon
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Round 1: BUG Nic Fit w/ Pod

Game 1: Lasted the whole round. I start off with mom and turn two scryb ranger, gives his removal fits for the rest of the game. He pods and gets some creatures, I get lucky enough to exile his thragtusk with my Scavenging Ooze. I get ooze up to a 6/6, and he plays a sower of temptation to steal it! We trade blows for ever, my scryb ranger with exalted (from Noble) vs his team of baleful strixes and various pod ultilty creatures. Eventually, i am able to stick a knight for long enough to assemble Depths + Stage, mom to give it pro blue to get past his fliers, and swing through for lethal. Very grindy, he told me afterwards that despite how much of his deck he saw, he never did get 1 of his 3 pernicious deeds. Dodged a bullet on that one!

1-0

Round 2: Merfolk

Lost to this guy last week.

Game 1: He swarms and overwhelms me with lords and TNN despite me getting punishing fire online pretty early

Game 2: I am able to keep him from doing too much damage until he gets his TNN. By that time however, I have an active knight, and I just get dark depths and t Stage. Marit Lage seals it.

Game 3: He only draws non TNN creatures, and I mow them all down with punishing fire. My small team of bears kills him.

2-0

Round 3: Death and Taxes

We split prizes, but play just for fun

Game 1: He gets an early aether vial, and pumps out a serra avenger which becomes equipped with SoFaI, and he just creams me.

Game 2: I keep an opener with mom, qasali, deathrite shaman, Enignnered explosives, and some lands.

He leads off with an early vial again, and I am put in the awkward position of debating whether to EE or play my creatures. I decide on creatures, and he gets some fast fliers in the air which beat me down before I am able to do anything relevant. Serra Avenger is a boss in this matchup for him.

2-1

All in all, $40 of store credit is nice, and punishing maverick takes another victory! Might switch away from the e tutor board again, though I am in flux constantly with all the options this deck provides. I feel like the 4 color version is pretty solid,and even with TNN being a big part of the meta, punishing fire remains completely awesome. Of course, if these guys catch on and start playing combo decks, I will have worse luck. I will keep you guys posted with my results up until SCG LA

[Moroklumpen]

I'm taking this to a local tournament tomorrow:

3 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Weathered Wayfarer

2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Thespian's Stage

Sideboard:
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction

All constructive feedback is welcome. :-)

[ironclad8690]

I'm taking this to a local tournament tomorrow:

3 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Weathered Wayfarer

2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Thespian's Stage

Sideboard:
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction

All constructive feedback is welcome. :-)

You might want to find space for a couple of wilt-lead lieges in your SB. Last time I played vial maverick at a big tourney I kept getting blown out by zealous persecution and golgari charm. Also, wilt leaf rules vs liliana decks! Maybe out 1 choke and 1 O ring? Of course you can do what you like, just a personal recommendation :)

[.Ix]

I'm taking this to a local tournament tomorrow:

3 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Weathered Wayfarer

2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Thespian's Stage

Sideboard:
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction

All constructive feedback is welcome. :-)

Isn't 3 Wayfarer too much? I've been playing Vial Maverick recently and there are some matchups and situations where Wayfarer just does nothing.

ironclad:

oh man. I was thinking of exactly those two cards when I was building my Vial deck. Being vulnerable to Golgari Charm sucks, but does Wilt Leaf really help? It's a 4CC creature, so I imagine it comes down a little too late to help against Charm and Persecution. I have never tried it, so I can't really tell.

[Philipp2293]

@Liege/Vial interaction:

While definitely weaker than Liege, if you want a similar effect that is more in line with Aether Vial interaction, you could run Veteran Armorer. I don't, since I don't run Aether Vial, and even if I did I'm not sure I would include that card in my 75, but I just wanted to point out it exists.

[ironclad8690]

Isn't 3 Wayfarer too much? I've been playing Vial Maverick recently and there are some matchups and situations where Wayfarer just does nothing.

ironclad:

oh man. I was thinking of exactly those two cards when I was building my Vial deck. Being vulnerable to Golgari Charm sucks, but does Wilt Leaf really help? It's a 4CC creature, so I imagine it comes down a little too late to help against Charm and Persecution. I have never tried it, so I can't really tell.

When playing it alongside spirit, the decks with charm can't cantrip into their charm/persecution as quickly, so you have a little extra time to find a cradle or get to enough mana to cast it. Also, vial has a bit of a jund/Liliana/hymn to tourach weakness, and wilt leaf can swing that matchup by itself.

[ironclad8690]

I played punishing jund against a death and taxes list last night, and I lost games 2 and 3 from hymning wilt leaf into play. I am serious guys, that card single handedly beats liliana and hymn decks.

[bakofried]

Can someone point me to some resources for catching up on the meta? I stopped playing two years ago and would appreciate a crash course.

Also, anyone still rocking the straight G/W build?

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[Philipp2293]

Unfortunately, the meta hasn't developed well for Maverick. The biggest problem is the printing of True-Name Nemesis, which is really bad news for this deck since it suffers from the card itself and all the splash hate which keeps appearing like Zealous Persecution/Golgari Charm/Massacre. Now previously good MUs like Esperblade are pretty tough. Also, because of the metashift Miracles again has been pushed to the front.

As for a current list, I busted out the deck for a very small local tournament for nostalgic reasons (and because I have it fully foiled):

23 Lands (2 Caverns, 1 Karakas, 1 Dryad Arbor, no Bog/Maze/Cradle)
4 Mother
4 Hierarch
4 Thalia
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 GSZ
4 StP
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sidenote: I actually ran a small black splash just for sideboard options, but the MD can be played straight GW. If you have any more questions feel free to ask, the deck actually performed still solid, but I wouldn't consider it a contender in the current meta.

[bakofried]

As TNN is a contender are more Pridemages in order to combat equipment?

Also, has anyone tried spirit of the labyrinth? Seems to be solid.

As much as I can't afford them, would Goyf be a good inclusion to fight the mass removal?

Should we build more, or less aggressive? I'm thinking more, but that's just me.

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[uncletiggy]

Pridemage is a house vs tnn he can race it or neuter the equipment on it. There has never been a better time to run mr kitty I run three in my junk list.

[bakofried]

So why is Punishing Fire so popular? It seems slow, inapplicable to TNN, and an unnecessary dilution of the mana base. On that note, Noble Hierarch seems much more aggressive than Shaman.... With the role being filled by Ooze (in a way). Just spitballing, I've been gone awhile and want to shake things up.

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[Stuhl]

I'm running a black version with dark confidants for card advantage and shamans for mana fix, graveyard hate, damage, life. I also run abrupt decays main deck which is essential against miracles and also jitte, elves, delver, goyf, .... tons of cards. Zealous persecution is da shit against elves, dnt, tnn. I play one main deck an 2 sideboard. In general the black splash really is worth it.

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[Philipp2293]

@Stuhl: Could you share your current list?

[bakofried]

It sounds really good. Luckily if I wanted to I'm in a place where I could get ahold of those cards... but I'm also stubborn, and want to make GW work. So I'll durdle with that on my own... but I have to ask, how hard does DRS hit KotR?

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[uncletiggy]

If I had to put a number on it id say cuts his average size in half from before drs printing.

[Megadeus]

I think a solid way to play a straight GW version would be going the SIgarda route

[Stuhl]

That is my current list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
3 Dark Confidant
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Quasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger


4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Life from the Loam


3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:

3 Thalia
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Choke
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Mindbreak Trap

The land base seems to be a mess but actually I already had a lot of situations where Bojuka Bog, Maze, DD combo saved my ass. I don't really feel that I have mana issues as I'm running 5 mana dorks. Of course if you have the perfect hand with maze and depths it really sucks... but I think that is the price it takes. At least I really don't have to mulligan very often. The 2 Pridemages care about equipments. In the first place it is not easy to play, but there are tons of possibilities and interactions. Scryb Ranger can do a lot with mothers/knights. The Zealous Persecution as a one-off did a great job, especially against elves or DnT. Also a possible first turn ANT into goblins might get destroyed. Still, combo is the weakest matchup, that's why I'm running 2 Mindbreak Traps in SB. The Life from the Loaf main deck comes unexpected and gives more opportunities, especially in longer matches (which seem to happen very often). Thalia main deck would be nice, but I don't really can offer the slots and running 12 instants/sorceries she hurts me a lot, too. In general I like the card advantage of Bob ober Thalia.

I have really good experiences against creature-heavy decks. Elves seems to be a good match-up as well as DnT. Also RUG Delver is in my favor (in my experience at least. Wastelands in addition with mana dorks do a great job here). Shamans and Ooze give a good graveyard control and an unexpected Bojuka Bog via knight shrinks Mongooses, defeats Dredge or makes a Snapcaster useless.

On Saturday I will play at a small local tournament with that list. I will post my results afterwards! Unfortunately there are no TNN decks around my friends, but next weekend I will play some side events at GP Vienna. Hopefully I will play against a variety of decks there.

Tell me what you think=)

[bakofried]

Let us know, please. I've got a lot of catching up to do.

[Stuhl]

Just coming back from a small tournament with 17 people and five rounds of legacy. I've played the list I posted above.
I went 2-2-1.
In general I really had some unlucky moments which do not rely on the list in general.

1. Reanimator:

I had a really good hand with confidant, hierarch, pridemage, 2 lands, 1 wasteland and one other card I don't remember. I also started the game. After some rounds my board was pretty awesome and he only played ponder. I didn't realize what he was playing when suddenly griselbrand sneaked into the battlefield... Even my deck has a good "natural" defence against graveyard-based decks I had no shaman, no zenith, no ooze, no knight for bojuka bog at that time... after some more rounds of drawing nothing useful with confidant I got killed by griselbrand.

0-1

I boarded in oblivion ring, thalia and choke. I then mulliganed down to 5 after having no lands each time. I then ended up with dryad arbor, shaman and 3 other non-land cards... Didn't want to go down to 4, so I played arbor and passed. He plays a land and passes. I play shaman, he brainstorms and forces (that happens if you can't cast anything in your first turn)... Then griselbrand came again... I survived some sad rounds and finally got defeated.

0-2

I don't know if I should have taken a mulligan down to 4 but in general the situations just were not in my favor.

general: 0-1-0

2. Sneak and Show:

In general show and tell is a good matchup. In the first game he drew a lot of lands and I hab knight in my hand waiting for show and tell. After an intuition into show and tell (my luck that he didn't go for sneak attack) emrakul entered the battlefield to then get back to his hand by fetching karakas.

1-0

I boarded in oblivion ring, gaddock teeg, choke and thalias. After the first 2 rounds he had one vulcanic and one island. He destroyed vulcanic, casted thalia and somehow he never drew a second land... unable to cast everything I won the second game.

2-0

general: 1-1-0

3. UW control:

That deck seemed to be a bit homebrown, playing geist of saint traft, snapcasters, forces, stoneforges, ... things like that :P
The first game he got a stoneforge out really soon and unfortunately I somehow stuck with 2 lands. I had nothing to say in that game. He just overran me with geist and equipment.

0-1

I boarded in thalias, choke, engineered, 2 tutors. In that game I had a good mana ramp via zenith and shamans and was able to get out knight and pridemage really soon. The game ended also quite fast, this time in my favor.

1-1

The third game was a mess. First I had to mulligan down to 5 again. Then it was a back and forth between us. I had a ful board, he plays supreme verdict. Then he had geist, clique and I play engineered on 3. Finally we ended up with an batterskull equiped 13/13 knight on my side and a stoneforge mystic equiped with sword of feast and famine and batterskull on his side being in top deck mode...
I top decked maze, he top decked wasteland, I top decked mother, he ratched bomb... All in all it was a draw in the end as nobody could finish in the last 5 turns.

general: 1-1-1

4. UR Delver brew:

The first game I lost due to a lot of removals and counters...

0-1

The second game I won as I was faster than him this time by ramping out with zenith and hierarch.

1-1

The last game was similar but with a very exciting situation: I was on 6 life as he played his spells against me this time (thalia was already on the board). Then it was his last turn (he was on 3 life): He played price of progess for 3 mana and I had 5 non basics out at that time (including a fetchland). I then fetched to a basic land, used deathrite shaman to get 2 life, used scryb ranger to get rid of another non basic, used deathrite shaman again to get 2 life and ended up with 3 life total.
That is one the situations why I live this deck. All these possibilities one has are just awesome!

2-1

general: 2-1-1

5. Death and Taxes:

In the first game I had a good hand (with 2 fetchlands and zealous persecution which is very nice against DnT). He sworded my mother first turn. I played confidant second turn, he wastelands one of my lands and then it began... the worst confidant ever... first I revealed batterskull and drew no land... then I revealed stoneforge and drew no land... then I revealed another confidant and drew no land... then I revealed shaman and drew no land... then I scooped. I think sometimes shit happens but that was really, really unlucky.

0-1

Second game I boarded in more zealous persecutions, engineered and one tutor. This time I won thanks to a lot of removals and mana ramp.

1-1

In the third game I always had perfect answers to my threats. I play jitte, he plays revoker on jitte via vial and rest in peace. He plays jitte, I want to decay it and flickerwisp gets vialed in... I whipe his board with persecution, end of turn another flickerwisp gets vialed in targeting my knight, then he equips jitte on wisp and starts to attack (I couldn't use knight in response to the vial activation because I attacked with him. Maze would have be a thing...). End of turn I get my knight back and in my untap step he vials in revoker on knight, so I wasn't able to use him that turn either... That's it :P didn't find back to the game as he raped me.

1-2

general: 2-2-1



In general I think I really had some bad luck in some games concerning the draws and also the amount of mulligans I had to do. I never came to marit lage in these games and nearly always boarded the combo out in the second games. In the one game where I drawed I would have won by doing the combo but it was boarded out... It is not an easy question when or when not to board out the combo. Often I still get it wrong.
Reanimator seems to be not an easy matchup as the graveyard hate always needs some time to get running. The one life from the loam main deck seemed to be not really useful in here. I think I will get that one out and add the 4th knight again. In general the mana base maybe a bit too greedy, so all together bog/maze/dd combo maybe too much colorless/slow/no lands. The creature base seems very stable but global removals love supreme verdict always are very dangerous and may cost the game.

I will go on testing the deck and trying out some other card choices but the shell itself will remain.
I really like the cards I'm playing and think there is a future. The important thing is to find the balance between all these different kinds of cards and pieces. Greed is not always good.

I hope you find that report useful,

Stuhl

[IL_casual]

Has anyone watched the scglive deck tech of ryan delang? Thoughts on his build guys? Living wish in maverick? Pretty interesting tech

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[bakofried]

I did, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. He didn't hit top 16, so I'm a bit skeptical that it was terribly effective.

Living Wish, I'll admit, does seem interesting. I don't know if I like everything that he did with it, but it is interesting.

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[haganbmj]

Played the local Wednesday night legacy event yesterday, 17 players, 4 rounds + a top 8.

I wasn't anticipating to have time to play legacy this week, so I lent out some black duals to a buddy. As a result, I opted to use that as an excuse to reapproach straight GW.
Going back to just GW, I felt comfortable increasing the threat density of the deck and running Gaea's Cradle with Sigarda. With the Cradle, I wanted to try out a third equipment and settled on the unconventional Behemoth Sledge as a way to race Delvers and Trample through True-Name. It felt better than Batterskull or a second Fire and Ice, and proved to be pretty useful on the night. I wish the equip cost was 2, however.

The sideboard was a bit of a rushed effort to fill the gaps that losing Black left. Lately, my store has had its share of lands, bug, and miracles.



Spells (24+14=38)
Lands (23)
Sideboard (15)


4 Mother of Runes
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Life from the Loam

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Bayou
4 Savannah
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswepth Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pithing Needle
1 Path to Exile
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Luminarch Ascension
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 River Boa
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ensnaring Bridge





Round 1 v UB Tezzeret (2-0)
Game one was a bit of a grind, worked through multiple Baleful Strixes.
Game two I lead on Deathrite into Wasteland + Loam on turn 2.
> I won two more games while we were waiting for the round to finish.

Round 2 v UG Food Chain (2-0)
Game one he forces an early Green Sun's for 3, then Forces a hardcast Sigarda. Pridemage resolves and beats his face in for a while and he can't recover from the card disadvantage or find a way to fight through the onboard Pridemage.
Game two I stick a Thalia. He Cliques me on my turn 3 and I Enlightened Tutor for Ethersworn Canonist in response; he takes one of the two Pridemages from my hand. He can't assemble a board through Pridemage, Thalia, and Canonist.

Round 3 v Bant Lands w/ Living Wish (1-1-1)
Game one he gets after a Supreme Verdict clears up any pressure from me and he's able to assemble Dark Depths + Stage.I have a Path to Exile and a Swords to Plowshares, but can't find an Ooze in time to nip his graveyard.
Game two I Wasteland him twice and keep him off mana while I stick a Scavenging Ooze and keep him down.
Game three goes to time after we fight over an Engineered Explosives and I end up with a board state involving Ensnaring Bridge, Rest in Peace, Rest in Peace, Pithing Needle on Thesp Stage. While he's running out of cards in his library, I can't draw a creature for a solid way to hit him for a number of turns.

Round 4 v BUG Delver (ID | 2-0)
We play it out anyways and I beat him in two. Boarding into a third Ooze and having access to Rest in Peace really changes this matchup.

Top 8 v BUG Delver (2-0)
We get paired up again for the top 8 with me on the Play.
I lead off on Mother, to which he lays and Underground Sea and Disfigures. I go for Stoneforge on turn 2 and he has the Daze.
Turn three I have a second Mother, and he a Dark Confidant.
I then lay a Thalia and a green fetch, he has a Goyf. I get Dryad Arbor end of turn and lay Gaea's Cradle into Sigarda on turn five. Turn six I draw Sword of Fire and Ice (play + equip) and start beating in. He finds an Abrupt Decay for the Sword, but can't deal with the Sigarda.
Game two he ends up with double Goyf and a True-Name. A Maze of Ith and a Knight keep the Goyfs at bay while my River Boa gets in for 5 a turn. He finds an answer for the Knight, so I Path to Exile a goyf to keep pressure, attacking for 5 with River Boa then Maze of Ithing it to keep it on defense. He ends up having to Golgari Charm away his TNN and most of my field (Hierarch x2, Thalia, River Boa), but I have the swords I'd been sandbagging to remove his last goyf - leaving me with only a Pridemage to his empty board. I draw a Fire and Ice, Loam back a fetch to have Dryad Arbor access and close out the game.

[ironclad8690]

I did, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. He didn't hit top 16, so I'm a bit skeptical that it was terribly effective.

Living Wish, I'll admit, does seem interesting. I don't know if I like everything that he did with it, but it is interesting.

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To be fair, does anyone have any experience playing against food chain? Didnt think so

[matunos]

To be fair, does anyone have any experience playing against food chain? Didnt think so

Living Wish for an Ethersworn Canonist is pretty strong (stops both the combo and cascading). They can certainly combo off before you can cast that, but in my albeit limited experience against a similar deck, it doesn't consistently go off that fast.

[bakofried]

Don't get me wrong, I like it when Maverick gets attention, and I like that he tried something different at a big tournament - props to him. I'll admit Wish warrants testing, but consider me skeptical is all.

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[Barook]

@haganbmj: Sledge looks like pretty interesting tech. Could you go a bit or into detail on that one?

[Megadeus]

Living Wish for an Ethersworn Canonist is pretty strong (stops both the combo and cascading). They can certainly combo off before you can cast that, but in my albeit limited experience against a similar deck, it doesn't consistently go off that fast.

Canonist will not stop shardless due to it being an artifact

[Tyrio]

Yeah, you used the Sledge like I suggested!

Sledge seems clunky and slow, but it does allow pretty much every one of your creatures to trample over TNN and survive. You'll obviously win the damage race with lifelink too. Maybe you can swap a Loam for a Sylvan Library to take advantage of the extra life.

[haganbmj]

@haganbmj: Sledge looks like pretty interesting tech. Could you go a bit or into detail on that one?

The suggestion was Tyrio's. I was looking for another equipment to improve the True-Name matchups, but didn't want another Sword of X/Y because they don't win you the race while you're getting chump blocked. I didn't want Batterskull because I really don't want to be on any more than 2 Stoneforges (they just aren't proactive enough).

The idea was that lifelink is an effective means of dealing with True-Name, because even just a Pridemage with a Sledge is going to be generating 10 point swings.

The problem with Sledge really is the equip cost. I wouldn't play it if I didn't have Cradle in the deck, because I feel like even off a Stoneforge activation, paying 5 to land + equip the Sledge is more than the deck can do sometimes.

@Tyrio - Yeah I wanted to try 2 Loam on Wednesday just because our store runs so few basics most nights. I cut Sylvan Library from the GWb build because it increased the spell count to a number I wasn't content with, but there might be space in straight GW for it to come back in. Both Loams were really good though on the night, I Wasteland locked UB Tezz, Lands, and BUG Delver - something that rarely happened what I just had one in the sideboard.

Speaking of the sideboard, my board plan was a bit different with regards to the graveyard.
Against BUG, I left in Loams and brought in Rest in Peace on top of that. The rationale was that both are effective strategies against them and I can choose which gameplan to play based on the first few turns. It might be a bit anti-synergistic when I'm rocking 4 Knight, 3 Ooze postboard, but the density of high-impact cards really helped swing the matchup.

[matunos]

Canonist will not stop shardless due to it being an artifact

Oh yeah, forgot about that (been a while since I played against/with Shardless). It does slow it down a little though as they can't do anything before or after.

[Deckerator]

Would it be possible to update the primer?
Update the new match up analysis and the new deck lists?


If the meta is not TNN heavy and there is a lot of Combo (Reanimator, Show&Tell) , Miracle, Team America, Grindstone
Is the old G/W of Maverick the right choice?

[bakofried]

It'd be nice to see some updates. I'm testing a Vial Maverick list now, in conjunction with something closer to IBA's old list.

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[haganbmj]

Played another event with the list found here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20612-Deck-GW-x-Maverick&p=802048&viewfull=1#post802048).

Round 1 Bye
Round 2 v Merfolk with Standstill and sideboard Spreading Seas (2-0)
Round 3 v Megadeus on BW Deadguy Ale (2-0)
Round 4 v RUG Delver (ID) - 1-1 split on the side games

Top 4 v Jon on Manaless Dredge (ID to go home)

Should've just slaughtered Dredge. I have 8 sideboard cards even for that matchup.
Sideboard still needs some tweaking, but this gave me a few ideas.

Beat Merfolk game one with overwhelming board pressure. Game two he Spreading Seas'd my Plains on turn 2 and I lost a turn to the awkward mana configuration. He assembles a small board, but I'm able to present a Behemoth Sledge on a Pridemage for a 14 point life swing (2 Hierarch) that puts me well out of reach and locks up the game.

My board against the RUG guy was -3 Pridemage, +1 Scooze, +1 River Boa, +1 Path to Exile. I should be boarding Maze of Ith in too, but overlooked it. River Boa is pretty meh, but it fills its role. It's a fun flex slot for the moment that has proven to be a unique and unexpected threat. Perhaps I should be bringing in the Rest in Peace as well, but I feel Loam + Ooze is usually enough to take the matchup. RiP can be hit or miss.



EDIT 4/3/14
Played another event with this 75 since I haven't had a lot of time to mix it up.

Round 1 v Mono Red Sneak Attack (2-1)
Wasteland is pretty strong against Sandstone Needles and City of Traitors. Blood Moon gets me game two when I fail to fetch around it, I die with 3 Pridemage, a Teeg, and a Path to Exile in my hand. Game three I take with a strong opener involving Thalia, Mother, and a Pridemage.

Round 2 v Deathblade (2-0)
Pretty standard games. He has Stoneforge and I have Pridemages. Game two I keep his Deathrite off activation while an early Knight + Wastelands take the game.

Round 3 v Bant Lands (0-2)
Game one he has double Supreme Verdict early on that takes care of both of my Scavenging Oozes. I hardcast and resolve Sigarda, but with him at 28 life off a Swords'd Marit Lage, I'm unable to close the deal before he can dig into an Intuition setting up another Marit Lage. Game two he has 2 Path to Exiles to keep my pressure off the table which causes me to tap out to put pressure on the table after missing a land drop. He end of turn Crop Rotations into Marit Lage and takes it.

Round 4 v UR Dragonstorm (ID - 1-1 in games)
We opt to ID since we'll both make top seed thanks to my high breakers and his 2-0-1 record.
In the games we play I take the first off Thalia to pressure his mana sources and he takes two after Burning Wishing for a Pyroclasm to clear away a Teeg of mine. I have Canonist on board, but he is able to generate enough value off of Grim Monolith -> Dragonstorm (Storm 2 = Bogardan, Bogardan), wiping my field in the process.
In the first game I had an active Behemoth Sledge gain me some life before he Burning Wished for Shattering Spree to take care of it.

Top 8 v Bant Lands (ID)
Split top 8 to head home.

[Moroklumpen]

I'm expecting a bit of an upswing in miracles locally, and I'm really not sure what the best plan against it is. I've tried both GW Vial with Depths and Dark Zenith Maverick, and both seem to have merits. Both Vial and Abrupt Decay are clearly good in the matchup, so I'm sort of looking for tiebreakers. Are there any particular cards you like to include (main or side) when expecting miracles, and do they tilt you towards one build or the other?

[.Ix]

I'm expecting a bit of an upswing in miracles locally, and I'm really not sure what the best plan against it is. I've tried both GW Vial with Depths and Dark Zenith Maverick, and both seem to have merits. Both Vial and Abrupt Decay are clearly good in the matchup, so I'm sort of looking for tiebreakers. Are there any particular cards you like to include (main or side) when expecting miracles, and do they tilt you towards one build or the other?

When I was playing Dark Maverick, Lingering Souls was pretty good against Miracles. Should still be a great card in the matchup.

[Flopnuts72]

I'm expecting a bit of an upswing in miracles locally, and I'm really not sure what the best plan against it is. I've tried both GW Vial with Depths and Dark Zenith Maverick, and both seem to have merits. Both Vial and Abrupt Decay are clearly good in the matchup, so I'm sort of looking for tiebreakers. Are there any particular cards you like to include (main or side) when expecting miracles, and do they tilt you towards one build or the other? If you can land a mom then Gaddock Teeg you should be fine. Just don't walk him in to vendilion or a snapcaster. If you are vary concerned about miracles match, I would run 3 teeg with the vial, and 2 with zenith. 1 main for both and the rest in the side!

[cartothemax]

Gaddock Teeg in the Zenith builds is pretty back breaking to Miracles. Stops Entreat, Jace, and Terminus. Also shuts down Engineered Explosives, which, can be a problem.

Also in Dark Maverick lists Liliana of the Veil can be really good against them as well.

An early Thalia is pretty nifty as well slowing them down a turn or two, but eventually they will be able to play around her. Although turn 5 Jace or one less angel token can help swing the game.

Hope that helps!

[Moroklumpen]

The trouble with Teeg is that I really need Mother of Runes or Safekeeper to keep him on the table. Otherwise they'll just Swords him or chain cantrips and Top activations until they can. Their velocity is possibly the best in the game, so I have to assume they'll have it. This means that I need to have and resolve two cards (of course, Zenith stands in for either Teeg or Safekeeper), and if I resolve MoR I still need her to survive for a turn before I can drop Teeg. I've done it before, but it really is a pretty tall order. Cavern of Souls helps, but Teeg's creature types are unique in the deck, which means I must expect to expose at least one creature to a counterspell of some sort. I will of course be playing all of the above cards anyway, but I'd really love to find some sweet tech to tip the balance. So far the best I have is Elspeth in the main, Choke in the side and perhaps a Garruk Relentless somewhere. If I end up with Pithing Needles I can turn off Top, but that doesn't exactly break the matchup. Any thoughts?

[bakofried]

Between Teeg, Thalia, Choke, and Stoneforge, the MU shouldn't be terrible. Run a second copy of Teeg in the side, as well as a Thrun somewhere in there. If you really don't like Miracles, try a Vial version with 2-3 Teegs main.

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[jaydprickett]

Finally some good results for Maverick have been posted -

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=33&start_date=2014-03-30&end_date=2014-03-30&state=CA&city=San%20Diego&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=29&start_date=2014-03-30&end_date=2014-03-30&state=MD&city=Glen%20Burnie&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks

Two very similar G/W/B Maverick decks. Maverick has been quiet for awhile so it's nice to see some results. I am pretty new Maverick player (played Magic since 97). On paper I am liking the added black for abrupt decay. Maindeck non counterable answers to pretty much everything seem to be amazing in this blue tempo metagame.

I have a question in terms of our late game. It seems unless you are playing Punishing Maverick you can go Equipment + Sigarda or Stage/Depths combo, what are your preferences?

[jaydprickett]

For reference here is my list -

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Mother of Runes
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Dryad Arbor

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Marsh Flats
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland
1x Karakas
1x Maze of ith
1x Horizon Canopy

SB

2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Zealous Pesecution
1x Manriki-Gusari
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Choke
1x Pithing Needle
1x Humility
1x Engineered Plague
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Life from the Loam
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Abrupt Decay

I have a tournament in a week (first Legacy tournament) and am trying to piece my deck together based on the input from this thread basically. Going in blind metagame wise, expecting 20ish players so should be diverse.

[haganbmj]

Finally some good results for Maverick have been posted -

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=33&start_date=2014-03-30&end_date=2014-03-30&state=CA&city=San%20Diego&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=29&start_date=2014-03-30&end_date=2014-03-30&state=MD&city=Glen%20Burnie&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks

Two very similar G/W/B Maverick decks. Maverick has been quiet for awhile so it's nice to see some results. I am pretty new Maverick player (played Magic since 97). On paper I am liking the added black for abrupt decay. Maindeck non counterable answers to pretty much everything seem to be amazing in this blue tempo metagame.

I have a question in terms of our late game. It seems unless you are playing Punishing Maverick you can go Equipment + Sigarda or Stage/Depths combo, what are your preferences?

Interesting pair of decks from those two SCG IQs. One in favor of Dark Confidant and 3 GSZ while the other tacks on a Maelstrom Pulse and opts for the fourth Knight of the Reliquary. It's foreign to me to only see 1 Qasali Pridemage in each list, but I suppose with access to Abrupt Decay it was worthwhile to trim down on him. I'm glad to still see both lists with high creature counts though, it feels too many builds get bogged down in running Thoughtseize once the black splash is present.

As for the late game I've been in favor of Sigarda lately. I found when I was testing with Stage/Depths that I was often already winning when I had the opportunity to activate Knight of the Reliquary to get Depths active. There were some corner cases, of course. I didn't feel the deck could reliably activate Depths without an active Knight and a decent board state though.

[IL_casual]

why does it seem that maverick w/ stoneforge is getting popular again? I think it was about a year or so ago when it was generally accepted that sfm was too slow for maverick and that 2 jitte was a better build for the maverick deck.

I would have to admit that I Am one of those mavs user that has 4 thoughtseizes in the mainboard. I do have a question tho, what matchup should we board out the thoughtseizes? Thanks!

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[Barook]

why does it seem that maverick w/ stoneforge is getting popular again?
TNN

No, seriously. Fetching SoFaI is one of the few ways to punch through this PoS.

[IL_casual]

I guess I tried a different route by using the DD combo punch thru a TNN deck. Ill try and see if I can manage to squeeze a Sofai back for the TNN matchups.

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[Stuhl]

Is anyone here who tried Vexing Shusher? In sideboard, or maybe also main as a one-off? In a counter heavy meta it seems like a nice tutorable creature which protects swords/zenith. I can't tell if the spot is worth it, but maybe someone has some experiences with it?

I currently decided to play wilt-leaf liege main deck as one of the big problems of maverick is mass removal like golgari charm. Also it is decay-proof, jitte slowing, "big" and has a very nice discard advantage if it is in your hand. At the moment I exchanged it with thrun which I also love... Maybe I will cut one pridemage and play thrun and liege main; as I'm playing one cradle that might be working and just puts more pressure on the board in a lot of games.

In a lot of games I end up with a full board of 2-offs and 1-offs and then something wipes everything out (toxic deluge, charm, pernicious deed, verdict, ...) which basically means a loss in most cases. In my opinion that is one of the problems in maverick. Either you play safe, slow and try to keep cards in hand. Or you ramp out and just hope.

[ironclad8690]

What do you guys think of the new Ajani? Not our savior or anything, but possibly warrants some testing?

[IL_casual]

What do you guys think of the new Ajani? Not our savior or anything, but possibly warrants some testing?

If he was 4cc there might be some use for him but 5cc is too high. He seems like a good fit in maverick tho.

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[Vandalize]

Stoneforge Mystic has been absolutely awesome in Maverick since its decline. It solves a lot of problems double Jitte can't deal with now.

I've been runnnig straight GW Maverick, because I really dislike Deathrite Shaman and Knight of Reliquary in the same deck. I was also trying Spirit of the Labyrinth, but it was crappy. People used their cantrips before or responding him, and could easily remove it after.

Lands [23]
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor

Creatures [25]
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Spells [12]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard [11 + 4]

Standard:
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Maze of Ith
1 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Pithing Needle

Pack 1: Miracles
1 Pithing Needle
1 Elspeth Knight Errant
2 Choke

Pack 2: Midrange
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Path to Exile

Pack 3: NO/Prog
3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

I exchange these sideboard packages depending on what I expect to see in my local tournaments. But I've been using mostly the Miracles and Midrange ones. Path to Exile has been stellar, probably the best removal ever against Team America and Patriot.

[Stuhl]

@Vandalize: are you fast enough against reanimator/dredge decks? Deathrite shamans control your opponents graveyard and often you can drop one first round which is essential against fast reanimate effects. Ooze maybe active on round 2, but more often on round 3. Also your sideboard has no graveyard hate either. Just wondering. I like the black splash for some sideboard options, too. Like thoughseize, engineered plague, surgical extraction...
Also some decays main deck often save your ass!:)

But I also kinda like straight GW, as it seems more stable concerning the mana base and KoTR'ing.

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[Strassbaw]

Punishing fire seems strong in my meta, has anyone had recent success with Punish Fire in the deck in the recent months?

I have tampered with a successful Punishing Dark Depths Maverick from BOM Paris 2013 (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12122&iddeck=88837) and I was wondering if pulling out depths and other stuff for a SFM package might be a better way to battle the midrange or tempo decks in the format.

I noticed in a starcity deck teck another punishing maverick deck did well in the swiss rounds at a SCG event (running living wish)http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_maverick_with_ryan_d.html
---(Maybe Living wish would be cool with Aethervial, but thats another post)---

I'm entering in a big tournament on Saturday so if anyone has any feedback on card choices for the tournament let me know. I plan on either keeping the deck identical to BOM Paris and messing with sideboard, or trying to find room for SFM package with punishing fire.

Thanks

[bakofried]

Huh, I didn't realize he did that well. I think I didn't give him enough credit, I'll be testing some stuff soon.

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[jaydprickett]

What about the living wish idea? It seems to really add to our gameplan by allowing us to pursue more angles with a higher percentage. And really all you need to do is replace Thalia and tweak the sideboard a little bit.

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Dryad Arbor

1 Life from the Loam
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish

1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Horizon Canopy

Sideboard:

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Humility
1 Choke

Basically I just replaced Thalia with Living Wish. Because Wish gives us more access to Wasteland I replaced Sylvan Library with Loam because we can easier waste/lock people with higher consistency. Does Living Wish have a place?

[Stuhl]

I will also do some testing with wish. I love the idea. But I will still play 4 zeniths main. About thalia I dunno. Maybe leaving 1/2 in mainboard?

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[Vandalize]

@Vandalize: are you fast enough against reanimator/dredge decks? Deathrite shamans control your opponents graveyard and often you can drop one first round which is essential against fast reanimate effects. Ooze maybe active on round 2, but more often on round 3. Also your sideboard has no graveyard hate either. Just wondering. I like the black splash for some sideboard options, too. Like thoughseize, engineered plague, surgical extraction...
Also some decays main deck often save your ass!:)

But I also kinda like straight GW, as it seems more stable concerning the mana base and KoTR'ing.

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Those two decks are really underrepresented in my metagame. Actually, I'm the only Dredge player in my area. But yeah, if GY decks were relevant here, I'd add a Pack 4: 2 Surgical, 1 Tormod's Crypt, 1 Bojuka Bog.

As for black splash, I just don't think it offers enough. Weakening your manabase and playing 3 Wastelands is pretty bad, imho. Deathrites are terrible with KotR (in most matches). Probably my only reason to splash black would be Abrupt Decay and discard in sideboard, but I prefer mana stability, I guess.

[bakofried]

Grabbed my mana for the red splash today. Painful, but not as painful as it could have been.

Really though, I'm wondering what living wish really adds that isn't already present. Knight finds lands, zenith finds dudes. Is the tempo loss really worth it? Especially as it hinders actual sideboard slots?

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[Strassbaw]

I can fathom whyy people would like the living wish idea, but I don't think it'll work well the way the deck is. I suggest Aether vial with the card to promote turn 2 or 3 landing of hate cards you grab from the sideboard.

@Bakofried: What did you mean by the red card being painful? Is the red splash a big mana risk?

I have a general question about spirit of the laberynith Maverick without Aethervial. If I am running an enlighten tutor sideboard, could spirit of the laberynith be a good choice to beat blue deck and some blue combo decks main board?

[bakofried]

No, just saying it hurt my wallet. I like the Vial builds, but Zenith still adds an element of consistency to the deck, even with Thalia and Teeg hurting it.

I wouldn't use an E-Tutor sideboard against blue decks, you can't really afford the negative CA, especially for such a minor effect. If you want to play 3-4 copies main or side, go for it (maybe in Thalia's slots).

[maktus]

Hello guys! This I'm running with good results, any sugests?

Main deck (60 cards):
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Kor Haven
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
21 lands

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Deathrite Shaman
23 creatures

4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
16 other spells

Sideboard:
3 Ashen Rider
3 Golgari Charm
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction

[MBTL90]

I'm curious as to why people have been moving away from Depths/stage combo. The opportunity cost seems low enough to me that there is no reason not to play it. If some lists can still afford to play Maze of Ith, then really all you are trading is a colored land for the colorless stage. I find that it helps me win games I would have otherwise no business winning, and the games they have an answer for it were games that I probably wasn't going to win anyways. Even opening with either piece isn't terrible, because it reduces the amount of times you actually have to activate knight, or can be wasteland bait when you are on the traditional Maverick plan.

[bumgun]

Maverick in the top 8 and on camera at SCG Det. :D

[bakofried]

I was watching, his play was awesome! Might have to grab some stuff for black splash at this point.

[Megadeus]

No, just saying it hurt my wallet. I like the Vial builds, but Zenith still adds an element of consistency to the deck, even with Thalia and Teeg hurting it.

I wouldn't use an E-Tutor sideboard against blue decks, you can't really afford the negative CA, especially for such a minor effect. If you want to play 3-4 copies main or side, go for it (maybe in Thalia's slots).

ETutor for Choke when they tap out is pretty damn strong.

[bumgun]

Having no Abrupt Decays at all seems a little loose though. Still a great performance and happy to see KOTR get some camera love.

[haganbmj]

Having no Abrupt Decays at all seems a little loose though. Still a great performance and happy to see KOTR get some camera love.

Yeah I was surprised to see 4 Pridemage, 0 Decay.
I don't disagree though when he has access to 6 Swords to Plowshares; Abrupt Decay is often just another Swords to Plowshares.
Pridemage is pretty great for applying pressure and fills a bit different role as a result.

Congratulations to him for making his way into top 8.

EDIT: Here's the list by the way..

Maverick, by Thomas Herzog (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=66544)


Spells (24+13=37)
Lands (23)
Sideboard (15)


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Choke
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Path to Exile
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thoughtseize

[bakofried]

With 4 Qasali in the 75 and 4 Thalia in the main, it seems like Abrupt Decay (at least maindeck) would become a bit cost-prohibitive in conjunction with his other noncreatures.

[Stuhl]

I kind of don't like his list, although he top 8'ed. Playing 2 libraries, 2 different swords, 4 thalias all seems a bit strange to me. It would be interesting to know which match-ups he had.

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[Moroklumpen]

I made room for an extra sword recently, and I've liked it a lot. SoFI is great against RUG, Merfolk and TNN decks, and it has the strongest abilities in a vacuum. SoLS protects you from the best removal spell in the format, which is huge, and its abilities are fine. Together with Jitte they just about cover every eventuality, and having three pieces of equipment reduces the chance of a late game topdecked Stoneforge Mystic being a mere Squire. I keep considering Batterskull, but it never makes the cut; I keep suspecting it'll be fine but I never find the space.

Overall, I like Herzog's list, but I think I'd make room for a curve topper or two; the last time I played GWb I had Sigarda and Elspeth, and was happy with both.

[1mpulse]

I kind of don't like his list, although he top 8'ed. Playing 2 libraries, 2 different swords, 4 thalias all seems a bit strange to me. It would be interesting to know which match-ups he had.

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Hello, I'm a good friend of Tom and I was already here to say hey to the other Enchantress players (since I got the deck tech) so I thought I'd check in here as well.

Tom doesn't use the Source, but that's okay because his list is derived from mine (like 70 of my 75) and I've been playing Maverick well before it was called Maverick (2010 at least http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=5563&iddeck=40280) and have a ridiculous amount of local 1k first place finishes with Maverick, as well as top 8'ing SCG Indy Legacy Open a year or two ago with it. I can also apparently be seen in his feature match eating an apple and being the water boy for Tom. :)

For reference, my list looks like:

4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia
3 Qasili Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavening Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforst
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor

3 Oblivion Ring
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Qasili Pridemage
1 Scavening Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thurn, the Last Troll
1 Darkblast
1 Umezwa's Jitte
1 Bojuka Bog

As far as Tom, I'm pretty sure at least half his matches were against Stoneblade decks, as every time I'd see him I'd ask him how it went and he's have this big 'ol goofy smile on his face when he'd be telling me about how his opponents kept trying to kill him with Batterskull and couldn't beat a 2/2 cat. His matchups in no particular order were: Stoneblade decks, Justin Opal playing BUG Delver for the win-and-in, Burn, Sneak and Show, Merfolk and I think a Metalworker deck.

In the quarters and semi's he played against RUG Delver, beating Ben Weinberg and losing to the eventual winner Morgan McLaughlin. Tom played pretty tight that day and I think it really showed (Did you see that attack with the triple 3/3 Mongeese!? Sick!), although he admittedly didn't respect Stifle. In the semi's everything just went perfect for the Delver player, with him being first seed and the typical turn 1 Delver, turn 2 blindflip. In game two Tom kept a 2 land hand (one of which was a Waste) and GSZ for Arbor, but he hesitated, so the RUG player just Bolt'ed the Arbor and they had a Wasteland fight where both players had zero permanents but his opponent just drew a Trop and rode a lone Mongoose for 6 turns.

As far as the list goes, it's the same base I've been using for while to great success. There is no excuse for no Deathrite Shamans at this point. I too enjoy straight GW better, but he's so good you can't not play him. You can't afford to keep running creatures that get rolled to a Golgari Charm. You've got to push damage through TTN and groundstalls. You get free wins against graveyard decks. You can skimp on gravehate.

With the black splash you also get Zealous Persecution which helps with the nightmare match of Elves, and is great against Death and Taxes, Goblin tokens and TNN. You even get to attack combo decks on a different angle with Thoughseize.

There is no doubt in my mind that 2 Sylvan Libraries is 100% correct. Fix your draws for the rest of the game. Only draw what you need, never lose top deck wars. Your pretty much never going to draw 2 Libraries since you just never draw the second when you already have one.

4 Thalias? Yeah. Turn one mana guy, turn 2 Thalia-Wasteland is the nuts. I also like dunking the combo decks.

3 random equipment's? Not really. There are 2 Stoneforges so that you can find whichever one is relevant to the match your in. I've been doing the x Stoneforge, same 3 equipments since I started playing this deck. I don't like all Jittes because Jittes are terrible against combo and control, whereas the opposite is true for the Swords. The Swords also protect your bears that you need against combo and Miracles. All 3 generate card advantage in a deck that has very few ways to do so. These also go along very well with the Cradle, as you can power out and equip the same turn.

4 Pridemages is awesome. The most played decks are trying to kill you with Batterskulls and Jittes. It's no coincidence this deck slam dunks Stoneblade any day of the week. Pretty much had utility against most decks in Legacy as almost everyone has some artifacts or enchantments they want to exploit.

Playing with Abrupt Decays seems loose to me. Thalia is a big part of the deck and 3 mana removal spells are not where you want to be. Why pay more than you have too? You don't need Decay to stop a Jitte or Batterskull, you have 4x Pridemage and 4x GSZ.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts, not necessarily yours. Looks like I've answered about everything you guys had for now. At the very least, now you have something to think about.

May all of your turn 1 Mothers go unanswered.

[kubalonek]

What about not playing Scryb Ranger. It is nuts in so many situations with pro blue protection. I loved this card every time I had it on board.

Greetings
Jakub

[Stuhl]

Yeah, scryb ranger is one of my favorite creatures in maverick. Blocks delver, doubles mother/knight/mana dork, saves dryad arbor (waste->flash->save) and pushes through damage with equipments.
Did you never miss maze of ith, either? It will stop your opponents jitte and buy time. I have to admit that I also try to play without it at the moment, but in every 2nd game I get a situation in which it would be worth it.
Until the top 8 finish I wanted to try the stage combo again, but now I don't know xD. It's so difficult to say which list is better/has more success.

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[jaydprickett]

Hello, I'm a good friend of Tom and I was already here to say hey to the other Enchantress players (since I got the deck tech) so I thought I'd check in here as well.

Tom doesn't use the Source, but that's okay because his list is derived from mine (like 70 of my 75) and I've been playing Maverick well before it was called Maverick (2010 at least http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=5563&iddeck=40280) and have a ridiculous amount of local 1k first place finishes with Maverick, as well as top 8'ing SCG Indy Legacy Open a year or two ago with it. I can also apparently be seen in his feature match eating an apple and being the water boy for Tom. :)

For reference, my list looks like:

4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia
3 Qasili Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavening Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforst
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor

3 Oblivion Ring
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Qasili Pridemage
1 Scavening Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thurn, the Last Troll
1 Darkblast
1 Umezwa's Jitte
1 Bojuka Bog

As far as Tom, I'm pretty sure at least half his matches were against Stoneblade decks, as every time I'd see him I'd ask him how it went and he's have this big 'ol goofy smile on his face when he'd be telling me about how his opponents kept trying to kill him with Batterskull and couldn't beat a 2/2 cat. His matchups in no particular order were: Stoneblade decks, Justin Opal playing BUG Delver for the win-and-in, Burn, Sneak and Show, Merfolk and I think a Metalworker deck.

In the quarters and semi's he played against RUG Delver, beating Ben Weinberg and losing to the eventual winner Morgan McLaughlin. Tom played pretty tight that day and I think it really showed (Did you see that attack with the triple 3/3 Mongeese!? Sick!), although he admittedly didn't respect Stifle. In the semi's everything just went perfect for the Delver player, with him being first seed and the typical turn 1 Delver, turn 2 blindflip. In game two Tom kept a 2 land hand (one of which was a Waste) and GSZ for Arbor, but he hesitated, so the RUG player just Bolt'ed the Arbor and they had a Wasteland fight where both players had zero permanents but his opponent just drew a Trop and rode a lone Mongoose for 6 turns.

As far as the list goes, it's the same base I've been using for while to great success. There is no excuse for no Deathrite Shamans at this point. I too enjoy straight GW better, but he's so good you can't not play him. You can't afford to keep running creatures that get rolled to a Golgari Charm. You've got to push damage through TTN and groundstalls. You get free wins against graveyard decks. You can skimp on gravehate.

With the black splash you also get Zealous Persecution which helps with the nightmare match of Elves, and is great against Death and Taxes, Goblin tokens and TNN. You even get to attack combo decks on a different angle with Thoughseize.

There is no doubt in my mind that 2 Sylvan Libraries is 100% correct. Fix your draws for the rest of the game. Only draw what you need, never lose top deck wars. Your pretty much never going to draw 2 Libraries since you just never draw the second when you already have one.

4 Thalias? Yeah. Turn one mana guy, turn 2 Thalia-Wasteland is the nuts. I also like dunking the combo decks.

3 random equipment's? Not really. There are 2 Stoneforges so that you can find whichever one is relevant to the match your in. I've been doing the x Stoneforge, same 3 equipments since I started playing this deck. I don't like all Jittes because Jittes are terrible against combo and control, whereas the opposite is true for the Swords. The Swords also protect your bears that you need against combo and Miracles. All 3 generate card advantage in a deck that has very few ways to do so. These also go along very well with the Cradle, as you can power out and equip the same turn.

4 Pridemages is awesome. The most played decks are trying to kill you with Batterskulls and Jittes. It's no coincidence this deck slam dunks Stoneblade any day of the week. Pretty much had utility against most decks in Legacy as almost everyone has some artifacts or enchantments they want to exploit.

Playing with Abrupt Decays seems loose to me. Thalia is a big part of the deck and 3 mana removal spells are not where you want to be. Why pay more than you have too? You don't need Decay to stop a Jitte or Batterskull, you have 4x Pridemage and 4x GSZ.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts, not necessarily yours. Looks like I've answered about everything you guys had for now. At the very least, now you have something to think about.

May all of your turn 1 Mothers go unanswered.

Would you mind doing a quick sideboard strategy on what usually comes in/out against the top decks? Sounds you like have a lot of experience with Maverick and the format overall. I am fairly new to Legacy and would love a SB breakdown if you don't mind.

[bakofried]

How essential is the singleton choke? Would moving SoLaS to the board (replacing Choke) for another stoneforge main be a bit more consistent?

[1mpulse]

What about not playing Scryb Ranger. It is nuts in so many situations with pro blue protection. I loved this card every time I had it on board.

Greetings
Jakub

Some people love it, but I am not one of those people. Most of the time you have an active Mom or Knight you're doing pretty well anyways. I also don't like putting cards that can end up being clunky in the deck. Yeah, you have GSZ, but I don't think that means you should go crazy with tutor targets. I feel that probably the biggest trap I see people fall into is that they think because you're running GSZ and Knight you should just jam a ton of crazy one-of's. Sure, in some cases it works out, but in other cases you're looking to try and play the game with a Sylvan Safekeeper, Scryb Ranger and Dark Depths against someone with a coherent game plan. Again, I also want to have as few x/1's in my deck as possible these days.


Did you never miss maze of ith, either? It will stop your opponents jitte and buy time. I have to admit that I also try to play without it at the moment, but in every 2nd game I get a situation in which it would be worth it.

Pretty much same thing about Maze of Ith as Scryb Ranger. If there is an equipment that needs to be dealt with, Cat Wizard will handle it. If it's a creature, generally, Swords to Plowshares or Jitte will handle it. I would rather run an actual answer to a permanent in a removal spell than a land that just stalls and has to potential to just be Wastelanded.


How essential is the singleton choke? Would moving SoLaS to the board (replacing Choke) for another stoneforge main be a bit more consistent?

I don't like Choke at all. That's why I don't play it. It's not a threat. You want Thalia against Blue decks, Thalia makes it cost 4. With Choke costing 4, it has an even high probably of getting Dazed and Spell Pierced. Choke isn't even very good against most of the Blue decks. Pretty much the only decks it's playable against are CounterTop and High Tide. The blue tempo decks are all high velocity need little mana and play Daze, so I wouldn't even board Choke in against them if it was in my board.

I'm not sure what you looking for with your second question, on whether or not playing more Stoneforge Mystics in the deck would make it more consistent. I mean, if you add more Stoneforge Mystic to the deck... then yes, you will more consistently draw more Stoneforge Mystics. I don't like playing less than 3 equipments with Stoneforge Mystics since you really can't afford to draw Squires. I love Stoneforge Mystic, but I can only ever fit 2 in the deck.


Would you mind doing a quick sideboard strategy on what usually comes in/out against the top decks? Sounds you like have a lot of experience with Maverick and the format overall. I am fairly new to Legacy and would love a SB breakdown if you don't mind.

Eh, I'm not really a fan of giving sideboard guides for a couple reasons. 1)They only really work out correctly if your playing someone's exact 75. I doubt many will be playing my exact 75 because everyone has preferences. 2) It's really important to understand why you are boarding the cards you are boarding. You just shouldn't do it because someone else said so. 3) This goes along with #2. Your opponents decks are going to be variable. For example, not all BUG Delver decks play True-Name Nemesis. Many are playing Dark Confidant instead. While that doesn't necessarily change that particular boarding strategy, you can see how when someone just gives you a guide, it can be dangerous to blindly follow it.

Reason #1 is why I didn't really even go over boarding with Tom. We were talking about how to sideboard last week and it was super frustrating because I'd talk about how I board, then he'd always ask, "What about the Choke?," and I'd have to be like, "What about it? It's not in my board. That changes things."

Not saying I won't talk about it, but if so, it will have to be on the weekend. Too tired to think and type about it right now and tomorrow I'm gonna go play in a weekly.

[Barook]

There's currently a pretty interesting discussion in The Rock thread about Doran, the Siege Tower as GSZ-able Anti-TNN tech. As long as all equipment dies thanks to Pridemage, a 1/1 TNN isn't very impressive. It also upgrades Hierarchs, DRS and SFM into better beaters while being a non-GY-reliant threat by itself.


I'm not sure what you looking for with your second question, on whether or not playing more Stoneforge Mystics in the deck would make it more consistent. I mean, if you add more Stoneforge Mystic to the deck... then yes, you will more consistently draw more Stoneforge Mystics. I don't like playing less than 3 equipments with Stoneforge Mystics since you really can't afford to draw Squires. I love Stoneforge Mystic, but I can only ever fit 2 in the deck.
D&T can run 4 just fine, even without the ability to Brainstorm some equipment back. I'd love to see at least a third one.

[Stuhl]

My opinion is: -1 thalia, +1 sfm. I don't like 4 legendary permanents of one kind. Might be a dead draw, especially in the late game. But again its a very individual decision.

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[Megadeus]

SFM late if nothing else is a body. And sometimes a body to equip to is all you need

[maktus]

My opinion is: -1 thalia, +1 sfm. I don't like 4 legendary permanents of one kind. Might be a dead draw, especially in the late game. But again its a very individual decision.

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I'm using -4 thalia and +4 tidehollow sculler. He's good in begining or late game and affects all kinds of decks.

[bakofried]

Is anyone testing a one-of Dryad Militant in the 75? Seems good against storm decks with applications against graveyard and mid range strategies.

[Richard Cheese]

Is anyone testing a one-of Dryad Militant in the 75? Seems good against storm decks with applications against graveyard and mid range strategies.

Militant seems pretty good right now with DRS and Goyf everywhere. Unfortunately Maverick already suffers against most of the hate intended for TNN, so I don't know if more x/1s are the place to be. Probably not a bad idea as a 1-of though.

[bakofried]

I'm actually looking at it as another bear for combo, except it's accessible via GSZ@1. I don't know how much I like it vs. Goyf, but we'll see.

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[bakofried]

Any thoughts on replacing Thalia with Spirit in the Detroit list? Cut the Sylvans for a pair of Mystics to avoid hurting yourself. I know Finn tested it extensively in D&T, but I feel that with exalted triggers, this might be the better home.

[IL_casual]

Any thoughts on replacing Thalia with Spirit in the Detroit list? Cut the Sylvans for a pair of Mystics to avoid hurting yourself. I know Finn tested it extensively in D&T, but I feel that with exalted triggers, this might be the better home.

I tried that setup before. Losing sylvan library really puts a dent on our deck as this is our only option for CA. I have 2 on my deck and I feel anything lower just won't cut it

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[bakofried]

If that's the case, have you considered running more? Just out of curiosity?

[IL_casual]

If that's the case, have you considered running more? Just out of curiosity?

I used 3 spirits in MB. Actually, its really not as strong as it seems. I feel that the best deck that would use this are decks that use vials, DNT.

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[bakofried]

I've got nothing but games to lose, so I'll keep testing it for shits sake. More data never hurts, right?

I'm torn between wanting double sword and jitte, and wanting a Batterskull in the main. Worth it? No?

[IL_casual]

I've got nothing but games to lose, so I'll keep testing it for shits sake. More data never hurts, right?

I'm torn between wanting double sword and jitte, and wanting a Batterskull in the main. Worth it? No?

i prefer sword&jitte. altho I use 2 jitte in my deck.Batterskull in the hand w/o sfm is extremely bad for us, with no brainstorm to shuffle it back to the library.

do you guys see anything in JOU that might be used in maverick? Aegis of the gods perhaps in an enlightened tutor sideboard.

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[Stuhl]

Hello again,

I played four rounds of legacy at a local tournament today and finished 8:0 with straight GW Maverick. As I don't remember the games very well, I will just do a little overall report.

The list:

4x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Dryad Arbor

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Crop Rotation
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Savannah
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland
1x Karakas
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Dark Depths

SB

1x Path to Exile
1x Krosan Grip
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Humility
2x Pithing Needle
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Elspeth
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Bojuka Bog

We were 9 players and I knew the decks more or less (it was more or less a tournament with friends :P, so don't take the result too serious!) so I adjusted the SB for a creature and graveyard (reanimator, dredge) heavy meta. Usually I would play another Teeg and 2-3 Canonists and maybe just 2 Extractions and no Elspeth. The 2 Lieges are great in my opinion as one of the most dangerous things are -1/-1 sweeps and usually decks who play these cards are also playing discard (Hymn, Lilly) and Abrupt Decays -> 4cmc is save! They also pump your army in a creature based meta, having a 7/7 flying, hexproof/sacproof is... very good?!?!? I boarded them against D&T and ended up with one hell of an army!

I did the DD combo only once to get 20 life which bought me time to overrun my opponent which had a TNN in play. I was really happy with the combo. Didn't have annoying situations and was able to put pressure on my opponents often. I nearly always boarded it out in the 2nd game, especially against D&T (Karakas, Swords, Flickerwisp... -> NEVER try to combo against a D&T deck!).

The equipments I played really were worth it. Never don't play Batterskull... it's just too good. You get life, it is Decay proof, you can equip Scryb Ranger to swing heavily in the air, you can hard cast it often with mana dorks, Cradle, Scryb Ranger AND mana dorks, Knight to Cradle, Crop Rotation to Cradle, whatever your hand looks like. I think the "ugly" situations with Batterskull are rare compared with the good ones! 1st turn Mother -> 2nd turn Stoneforge to Batterskull -> Overpwnage! SoFaI is just strong against TNN decks, gives drawback, etc., but you all know that :P and Jitte... yeah :P!

The Crop Rotation did very well! Against Reanimate he went down to 5 life with Exhume to Griselbrand, then wanted to attack and I rotate into Karakas (but ok, he did not play blue in his Reanimate deck... it was more a brew). But also Rotation for Cradle or Wasteland ist just good. I liked that one, also with Bojuka Bog in the sideboard.

Yeah, Bojuka Bog saved my ass in a mirror match. He attacked with a 8/8 Knight, but I only took 2 damage ;). His deck played only Knights as real beaters -> very dangerous against graveyard hate. I like Sigarda in that case as one, zenithable really big, independent creature.

I'm really happy with Cradle, too. It just adds so much speed! Often you can fetch an equipment with SM and just play it, equip AND attack. Playing two Canopys seems reasonable as Maverick just has no good drawback and in the lategame this one additional draw is often necessary. Cavern of Souls didn't do anything, but it also never hurt. As I said, there weren't a lot of blue decks :P. I know, in reality things are less comfortable.#

Sylvan Library performed really great. Had a lot of nice draws thanks to SL.

And of course, my most favorite creature in Maverick: Scryb Ranger did great, as always! Ads more mana, doubles Mother, blocks Delver, saves lands and Arbor, doubles Knight for double Wasteland/instant combo, attacks in the air (often with 2/3 exalted triggers), etc... But nonetheless I would play it just as a one off. He is great, but also small.

Well, these are my experiences. I play straight GW since a few weeks now and I really like it! I think it is really stable. I know, Deathrite Shamans are very very very good, but believe me, it also works without them and against decks which also play DS you just don't care, you have your mana fixed! No fights agout lands... just ramping out and maybe going into Ooze and nomnomnom. You also can put a Needle on DS! You also have no discard in the SB, but with Thalia and 2-3 Canonists, additional Teeg and maybe Extractions you should be able to play against storm...
Against TNN you imo just have to race. With SoFaI and mana ramp that's imo very good possible.
Thrun, Elspeth are against Miracle decks in the first place. But also against board whipes like Pernicious Deed or Supreme Verdict.

Well, that's all I remember :P
Had again a great time with Maverick and discovered once again that you always should play 4 Mother of Runes!!! Always!

- Stuhl

[Moroklumpen]

I really like the Doran idea and might try it in the future. Also, watching Caleb Durward's banned videos with Survival of the Fittest made me want to try a Fauna Shaman/Loyal Retainers/Elesh Norn package. Against Elves and TNN decks that should be game, and post board we can bring in Iona or similar trumps for tough matchups. Also, rebuying Thalia, Teeg or Sigarda shouldn't be underestimated. Thoughts?

[Stuhl]

I don't like it. It is a very slow, mana intensive combo. I think maverick as all about ramping and cutting your opponents mana. I think a zenith to knight or even an early sigarda is better than fauna shaman (who is small and needs one more turn to be activated). You can't tutor retainers, so you need to play more of them. They just do nothing most of the time. And getting teeg, thalia back... hm, I don't think that's necessary. Bringing sigarda back? How the hell should she die :)? Ok, there are globals, but in 90% of all games she won't leave the battlefield.
Reanimator decks can get elesh norn first turn and protect the combo with countermagic. That's what they do, but not what maverick does.
You can give it a try, but I don't think you will achieve great success.

[kubalonek]

Hi,

Some thoughts after BOM9 in Annecy. I played the following list [almost Herzog List]:

Creatures [25]
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Instants [4]
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries [4]
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library

Artifacts [3]
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands [22]
1 Bayou
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Path to Exile
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thoughtseize


I don't have notes but from what I recall it was like this:

Round 1 - BYE - 3 Points

Round 2 - Merfolks (2-1) - 6 Points
I lost game 1 crushed by the army of the blue lords. In game I assembled Scryb Ranger + SoFI duo with mother of runes and this was enough. In game 3 he copied my stoneforge mystic with phantasmal image and searched for jitte. Then played nemesis and for 2 turns was one mana short of casting and equiping TNN with Jitte (to kill my 2 moms). In the end 2 KoTRs that were about 12/12 sealed the game.

Round 3 - I have no idea what was it but I won - 9 Points

Round 4 - Shardless BUG (0-2) - 9 Points
This one was on the camera. Game 1 I mulliganed to 5 keeping quite a strong hand. T1 Deathrite, T2 SFM (Forced), T3 Ooze (Forced) no gas and sudden death. Game 2 I lead with T1 Noble, T2 Mom and Deatrite, T3 Mom and then he cast toxic deluge and clearing the board ... my bad play here. I didn't expect that card here.

Round 5 - ANT (2-0) - 12 Points
Game one he Thoughtseizes me and takes Thalia, then therapies to take GSZ. I topdeck Gaddock turn later and after that I played another Thalia I drew from the top. Game 2 I keep risky 1 lander hand with Thoughtseize / 2xDRS / Fetch / Thalia. He cabals thalia, I thougthseize him taking Infernal Tutor. Then cast DRS turn two. I rip Thalia from the Top, then cannonist and surgical extracting his tutors. No more lands showed but I used opponent fetches :)

6 - Death and Taxes (1-0) - 15 Points
Game one was very long, about 35 minutes. He was using Ports to keep me off my mana but I had a lot of lands. The game was won by Qasali holding Jitte and SOFI. In game 2 I was short on lands. I sworded T1 mom and was stuck on 2 lands. He played Mirran Crusader equiped it with jitte. It was blocked by thalia (thanks god that worked). Then he cast SFM for batterskull. I somehow managed to survive and played 2 KoTRs to survive. Knights were bigger than Batterskull with Jitte. The time was called so I won 1-0

Round 7 - Sneak and Show (0-2) - 15 Points
Things started to go wrong from here. Game 1 he played STD from volcanic island so I though I was playing against miracles. He forced my Knight and S&T Sneak to cast Griselbrand (draw XX) and cast emrakul for the win. Game 2 was similar. Bad matchups are bad -.-

Round 8 - Burn (1-2) - 15 Points
I lost game 1 quite fast. No DRS, no Thalia but hand was pretty good but not against burn ... in game 2 I managed to draw 4 DRS that was enough to seal the game. In game 3 I STPed turn 1 Gobilin Guide and then I was crused by new Pyrostatic Pillar on legs (Edilon of sth) ...

Round 9 - BRUG Planeswalkers with PF combo (2-1) - 18 Points
Game 1 I managed to survive all the removal spells and somehow kill him. Game 2 fast Liliana and PF crushed me. In game 3 I survived 2 JTMS, 3 Lilianas thanks to SoLaS that was returning a creature each turn so that I could sacrifice sth to liliana, return a creature to jace and have one more to attack with SoLaS

Round 10 - Miracles (0-2) - 18 Points
Game 1 I could block his spells with Teeg but I didn't just play it and I don't know why ... Game 2 I almost had having surgical extractioned his STPs. However his SFM after sideboarding with batterskull sealed the game. Cause miracles were blocked by Teeg again.


Overall finished 6-4 but starting 5-1 I expected sth better.

Pros
- great tournament
- deck choice was good
- the best cards are always on the top!
- scryb ranger is a house

Cons
- SoLaS was a thing I never searched with SFM
- I have never seen Sylvan Library
- poor game on the vid

That's all thanks :)

[Fatal]

Thank you for good report from BoM9

[Moroklumpen]

I took this to a testing session today and beat the snot out of UR Delver, Twelvepost, BUG Delver and Bant. I'd love to make room for a single Life from the Loam and perhaps another Pridemage, but other than that I'm extremely happy with this maindeck.

23 creatures:
1x Birds of Paradise
2x Deathrite Shaman
3x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons

15 other spells:
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

22 lands:
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
2x Savannah
1x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Scrubland
1x Verdant Catacombs

Very temporary sideboard:
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction

I haven't changed the sideboard since I switched back from GW vial to GWb, so I plan to retool it entirely. I expect a fairly broad spectrum of decks, including various Delver decks, both Show and Tell variants, a couple of Storm diehards, a couple of Burn adherents and most likely several Miracle players. Dredge tends to show up in numbers or not at all.

Things I'd like to include:
A flexible mass removal spell like Engineered Explosives, Ratchet Bomb or Maelstrom Pulse
Lifegain (I'm actually considering Lone Missionary, since it gives a healthy four life straight away for only two mana)
Discard (currently leaning towards a split between Thoughtseize, Inquisition and Duress)
Anti-Nemesis cards (Golgari Charm and/or Zealous Persecution)
A single Garruk Relentless for the Miracles matchup

Suggestions?

[Ecstatic_Conch]

Reason #1 is why I didn't really even go over boarding with Tom. We were talking about how to sideboard last week and it was super frustrating because I'd talk about how I board, then he'd always ask, "What about the Choke?," and I'd have to be like, "What about it? It's not in my board. That changes things."

Not saying I won't talk about it, but if so, it will have to be on the weekend. Too tired to think and type about it right now and tomorrow I'm gonna go play in a weekly.

Just by virtue of my location you probably know who this is. I'm usually the only one really playing maverick in the immediate Ann Arbor area. We've talked about choke before. There's always going to be threats that slip in before it and I understand that was one of your arguments. I also understand the tendency for it to get dazed or spell pierced against all those delver decks. My meta is full of miracles decks. In the typical 8-10 people that show up for the weekly there are usually no less than three people playing the deck. Choke is obviously the bomb against these kind of decks. So for my meta, if I wanted to play maverick, choke is absolutely essential. Playing a creature deck is a losing proposition against miracles, and choke helps to tip the scales back to at least even. With the help of choke I 2-0'd Kyle, who I only mention because he recently won a grand prix, and he is miles and miles better at playing magic than me. He had around 7 lands in play tapped, all islands, and a choke off the top of my deck instantly won the game because he kept having to bounce and replay his batterskull. I wasn't even playing maverick, I was playing Sam Black's Zombardment deck. I play 3 choke in my enchantress sideboard, and when I was playing against miracles my opponent tapped out for jace, and I slammed down the choke I had been holding in my hand. One oblivion ring on jace later and he was dead, dead, dead. However, even though the decks I was playing weren't maverick, my examples are just to show that the card is effective and often game winning.

Since TNN got printed I've been playing the dark depths stage combo to go over the top of what your opponent is doing. It's especially helpful on stalled board states or when you don't have a favorable attack. I know it's not always at its best. For example playing in the top 8 of the last black lotus tournament, my shardless bug opponent had a baleful strix to block it for one turn, brainstorms, untaps and plays a jace to bounce Marit Lage. This took away my "free" win but if I had not had the combo the board was too clogged up with tarmogoyfs and shardless agents for me to win otherwise. However, the cost of playing the combo is so low. You're basically conceding yourself to having one dead card (which is actually not really dead because simply having dark depths in play threatens and makes KOTR a must counter) and you lose one fetch land. It's bad to lose the fetch with a deck that plays KOTR and deathrite, but even if you combo out and it doesn't work, your KOTR is now huge.

My main question was actually to ask you if you like Dark Confidant in Maverick. Protecting bob with a mother of runes just seems insane. The question you'll probably ask in return is what do you cut to fit it in? From your list, I would say -1 Qasali -2 Stoneforge, -1 Library. Losing a library is probably bad but you're replacing a card advantage engine card for another similar effect. I've never liked stoneforge in maverick, it was always slow and clunky for me and I would have no problems cutting it.

[1mpulse]

Just by virtue of my location you probably know who this is. I'm usually the only one really playing maverick in the immediate Ann Arbor area. We've talked about choke before. There's always going to be threats that slip in before it and I understand that was one of your arguments. I also understand the tendency for it to get dazed or spell pierced against all those delver decks. My meta is full of miracles decks. In the typical 8-10 people that show up for the weekly there are usually no less than three people playing the deck. Choke is obviously the bomb against these kind of decks. So for my meta, if I wanted to play maverick, choke is absolutely essential. Playing a creature deck is a losing proposition against miracles, and choke helps to tip the scales back to at least even. With the help of choke I 2-0'd Kyle, who I only mention because he recently won a grand prix, and he is miles and miles better at playing magic than me. He had around 7 lands in play tapped, all islands, and a choke off the top of my deck instantly won the game because he kept having to bounce and replay his batterskull. I wasn't even playing maverick, I was playing Sam Black's Zombardment deck. I play 3 choke in my enchantress sideboard, and when I was playing against miracles my opponent tapped out for jace, and I slammed down the choke I had been holding in my hand. One oblivion ring on jace later and he was dead, dead, dead. However, even though the decks I was playing weren't maverick, my examples are just to show that the card is effective and often game winning.

Since TNN got printed I've been playing the dark depths stage combo to go over the top of what your opponent is doing. It's especially helpful on stalled board states or when you don't have a favorable attack. I know it's not always at its best. For example playing in the top 8 of the last black lotus tournament, my shardless bug opponent had a baleful strix to block it for one turn, brainstorms, untaps and plays a jace to bounce Marit Lage. This took away my "free" win but if I had not had the combo the board was too clogged up with tarmogoyfs and shardless agents for me to win otherwise. However, the cost of playing the combo is so low. You're basically conceding yourself to having one dead card (which is actually not really dead because simply having dark depths in play threatens and makes KOTR a must counter) and you lose one fetch land. It's bad to lose the fetch with a deck that plays KOTR and deathrite, but even if you combo out and it doesn't work, your KOTR is now huge.

My main question was actually to ask you if you like Dark Confidant in Maverick. Protecting bob with a mother of runes just seems insane. The question you'll probably ask in return is what do you cut to fit it in? From your list, I would say -1 Qasali -2 Stoneforge, -1 Library. Losing a library is probably bad but you're replacing a card advantage engine card for another similar effect. I've never liked stoneforge in maverick, it was always slow and clunky for me and I would have no problems cutting it.

In general there are a lot of cards out there like Choke and Scryb Ranger that people have strong feelings for. I know that, and I don't go looking to change anyone's opinion on card selection because it's something that is extremely hard to do and what others run doesn't affect me in the slightest. I do however give my advice on stuff when people ask for it.

When I build sideboards I look to fill it with multi-purpose cards that are generally good against a wide spread of the format. So when I look at Choke in regards to Maverick, I find I'd normally want to find a card that covers more ground. For example, Gaddock Teeg is insane against Miracles as long as you resist the urge to run him into Snapcasters and Cliques. It also happens to be really good against a bunch of combo decks. With a Mother of Runes or SoLS on a Teeg, their only out is a Karakas. I've done a lot of testing with Chris in the past (with just straight GW) and I found I didn't have to go too far out of my way to beat Miracles. When the deck is big, I'll run 1 Teeg in the main, and 2 in the board.

Again, I'm not saying Choke isn't good at what it does, because it is. I think it does a good job hosing Islands and that it can help bridge a skill gap that sometimes exists between players. In the above scenario against Kyle it strikes me that I could have achieved similar results without going to far out of my way, by using a Qasali Pridemage to permanently take care of the Batterskull. Legacy is all about skinning cats in different ways, I just look to do it in a way that best maximizes my 75.

Going alone with all that is another thing I've noticed over the years is how most are just talking about and building their sideboards in the context of their local metagame. Everyone's always got these CounterTop players they want to beat, or Elves or Storm players. That's fine, and it makes sense to metagame your local meta if you want to win. However, I never tune my sideboard for any type of local metagame for a couple reasons. One being that I don't need to, the other being that I'm always looking to be configured for how I would be for an upcoming 1k or SCG Open. That latter is important because it means I'm going to be more ready for these events big events than someone who just jams some Mindbreak Traps in his board week in and week out because there are a couple Storm decks in the local meta. Whatever your local meta is, it's important to realize that it doesn't necessarily represent what your going to be facing at the bigger events. This concept is probably the leading reason why my card selection choices are so different from everyone elses.

People always used to ask me about Dark Confidants in the past, and I always told them the deck had ways to get card advantage without moving to another color. With the advent of Deathrite Shaman, he's most reasonable now than he's ever been, but I still haven't found myself wanting him in Maverick. My reasons for that are: He has competing priority with Thalia. Maverick for me, means quality of cards, rather than quantity, which is what Confidant pushes you towards. He doesn't beat very well. Golgari Charm.

That's not to say I don't love Dark Confidant, because I do. I just think he's better suited in Junk style decks, like the one I refer to as 'Renegade' which I've won mutiple 1k's with and the last two Power events at GYGO.

[rlesko]

Can I ask why Abrupt Decay doesn't seem to be an auto include in the SB for lists splashing black?

[Cynicath]

Can I ask why Abrupt Decay doesn't seem to be an auto include in the SB for lists splashing black?

The deck has so many ways to deal with permanents already, between Swords to Plowshares and Quasali Pridemage (+ GSZs to fetch them) the Abrupt Decays aren't really necessary. Better to lead up on combo hate since they're your worst matchups.

[rlesko]

my main concern is Miracles (destroying counterbalance). Also, I noticed a lot of people are running Path to Exile in the SB - this is for delver matchups? I don't see how Abrupt Decay wouldn't be better in this slot - kills every creature in delver decks + noncreature stuff like Liliana. Please enlighten me!

[Moroklumpen]

Path has a pretty big advantage against Delver decks - it can be cast off a single plains, allowing you to fetch a single basic land and have all your removal online for the rest of the game. Abrupt Decay makes you immune to counterspells but vulnerable to Wasteland. So what you're doing is really just trading one risk for another, and I personally run Decay (maindeck even) due to the large number of Miracle decks in my meta.

[rlesko]

I think I'm going to run 2x Abrupt Decay in the SB for Miracles mainly in lieu of Path to Exile because while we are vulnerable to being wasted off a black source, with DRS and KotR I think uncounterability is worth the risk. Also, with an active counterbalance what is the safest X to GSZ for so that it will resolve? My guess is 4? Since they are probably running 3 Jace and maybe a miser Venser (so, maximum of four 4 CMC in their deck) as opposed to definitely running 4 FoW and 4 Terminus (and the probability they are sandbagging a terminus on top is the highest of all cards) - granted a glance at their GY is relevant. I'm guessing post board miracles takes out ALL their FoWs too?

[Richard Cheese]

I think I'm going to run 2x Abrupt Decay in the SB for Miracles mainly in lieu of Path to Exile because while we are vulnerable to being wasted off a black source, with DRS and KotR I think uncounterability is worth the risk. Also, with an active counterbalance what is the safest X to GSZ for so that it will resolve? My guess is 4? Since they are probably running 3 Jace and maybe a miser Venser (so, maximum of four 4 CMC in their deck) as opposed to definitely running 4 FoW and 4 Terminus (and the probability they are sandbagging a terminus on top is the highest of all cards) - granted a glance at their GY is relevant. I'm guessing post board miracles takes out ALL their FoWs too?

Yes, postboard they will cut Forces, and remember they will most likely bring in some number of Supreme Verdict, so you'll have a couple more 4s to deal with.

[kubalonek]

Be aware of SFM after sideboard and Batterskull trying to sneak into the battlefield! :)

[Koby]

Be aware of SFM after sideboard and Batterskull trying to sneak into the battlefield! :)

All the more reason to play more QPM in the 75, that card does a lot of duty in this matchup.

[ironclad8690]

Updating GW to include Council's Judgement

4 Noble
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia
2 Stoneforge
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Council's Judgement
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Maze of Ith
1 Horizon Canopy

What do you guys think?

[litenkatt]

what does Will of the Council say? cant find any info

[Stuhl]

It is an ability, not a card...?

[Moroklumpen]

I thought it was a legendary creature.

Either that, or he means Council's Judgment. Nonland Vindicate for 1WW.

[Vandalize]

I thought it was a legendary creature.

Either that, or he means Council's Judgment. Nonland Vindicate for 1WW.

Non-land Vindicate that doesn't target (and can 2-for-1 if your foe's dumb enough). See you later Mr.True-Name Nemesis.

[ironclad8690]

Updating GW to include Council's Judgement

4 Noble
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia
2 Stoneforge
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Council's Judgement
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Maze of Ith
1 Horizon Canopy

What do you guys think?

Meant council's judgement

[bakofried]

Congrats to Koby on making top 16 at the Open! Hopefully we'll see some kind of a tournament write up, maybe something on their podcast.

[rlesko]

Congrats to Koby on making top 16 at the Open! Hopefully we'll see some kind of a tournament write up, maybe something on their podcast.

congrats to him, I also hope he does a report. unfortunately for him, im pretty sure the only camera time he got all day was a rather one sided MU against elves :frown:

[Koby]

Here my mini report
https://mtgkoby.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/scg-somerset-quick-n-dirty-subway-report/

[Shump21]

Are natural order packages still viable in a maverick shell?

[Zombie]

Are natural order packages still viable in a maverick shell?

I think Teeg is probably better for you, screws over so many annoying things and your cards are individually better than Elves'.

[Stuhl]

Congrats to Thomas Herzog for top8'ing again! Seems like a reliable deck list.

[ironclad8690]

Just 4-0'd a small tournament.

Beat Shardless, then High Tide, then Tin Fins, then Elves.

Straight up GW, here is my list:

4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library

4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Choke

I didn't run into any TNN. I do not face many decks that have it, but when I do the Marit Lage plan usually works. Not many decks that play TNN have enough ways to deal with Marit unless you are already pretty behind anyways. Golgari Charm is still tough as well, but jund is on the decline and BUG can pretty easily get mana/thaliascrewed.

[from Cairo]

http://mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/yisanthewandererbard.jpg

Any thoughts on this guy?

Clearly he dies to Bolt/Decay, but he seems like he demands an answer against opposing fair strategies. Upon overcoming summoning sickness he can 'Rebel search' Mother of Runes or Deathrite Shaman. If he makes it to a 2nd activation most of the silver bullets are valid targets - Thalia, Gaddock, SFM, ScOoze, QPM, Scryb Ranger. At 3 he loses his versatility only fetching Knight, but it would seem in most cases if he put the most relevant 1 and 2 casting cost guys left in your deck directly into play at instant speed, that the game would probably be at a point where one is just looking for a Knight to wrap things up. He's GSZable and can be saved via Karakas versus removal and sweepers.

I don't know that he's good enough, but he's interesting.

[litenkatt]

He can also be reseted with karakas.

He's probably too slow

[IL_casual]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/agasu2er.jpg

Thoughts on this card? I see this as a 1-2 off in our decks

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[ThediscoPower]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/agasu2er.jpg

Thoughts on this card? I see this as a 1-2 off in our decks

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

Well I saw people wanting to play immortal servitude somewhere, so that card is much better than that one for sure. I guess it can be tested, recycling lost thalias and moms seems pretty nice on paper.

After that, I don't think I like yisan. Seem too slow, and seems like a card I can't see myself casting a zenith for ever. But then again, fetching a sylvan safekeeper on his first activation in response to a removal spell can be pretty funny I guess.

[Tyrio]

Fauna Shaman seems better than Yisan, faster and with no search restrictions (other than sorcery - instant speed, which is significant I suppose). Jamming some Shamans and a singleton Squee seems pretty spicy actually. Gas for days. If you really want to be able to cast Squee you can even move over to a Punishing Maverick build.

[Moroklumpen]

Squee seems way too clunky; if you want to canel out Fauna Shaman's activation cost, just use Sword of Light and Shadow. Yisan seems strong since he doesn't cost a card to activate and puts the creature onto the battlefield, but I agree that he might be a bit on the slow side. I'd consider him in a vial build, since vial frees up mana to activate him, and once vial hits 3 we can dodge sorcery-speed removal and protect/reset him with Karakas.

[.Ix]

Yisan really seems too slow in any build, and it actually stops tutoring after the third time (do people still run 4cc targets?). I'd just play Garruk Relentless if I wanted a reusable creature tutor. It still takes a turn to start tutoring, and it can actually do more things.

[bakofried]

Anyone still testing out there? I've got a few questions, especially now that I've got the goods for Dark Maverick sleeved up.

The mana. Is eight fetch, 2 Sav, 1 Bayou, 1 Scrub better or wise than 7 fetch, 3 sav, 2 bayou? Is a 4/1 or a 3/2 split between DRS/Hierarch preferable?

The sideboard. Is the fourth Thoughtseize a meta call? If Elves is such a problematic match, why not run 3-4 Zealous Persecutions? It also deals with death and taxes and TNN.

Is the fourth Mother warranted in the 75 right now?

[haganbmj]

Anyone still testing out there? I've got a few questions, especially now that I've got the goods for Dark Maverick sleeved up.

The mana. Is eight fetch, 2 Sav, 1 Bayou, 1 Scrub better or wise than 7 fetch, 3 sav, 2 bayou? Is a 4/1 or a 3/2 split between DRS/Hierarch preferable?

The sideboard. Is the fourth Thoughtseize a meta call? If Elves is such a problematic match, why not run 3-4 Zealous Persecutions? It also deals with death and taxes and TNN.

Is the fourth Mother warranted in the 75 right now?


It'll depend on how much black you're running really. It sounds like you're doing 3 Thoughtseize, but the next question would be how many Abrupt Decays between the main and side. Dark Confidants? etc

I've been partial to 2 Savannah, 2 Bayou, 1 Scrubland, +7 Fetches in lists that want access to that third black land.
Additionally, the black count in your deck will feed (at least a bit) into your split of nobles and deathrites. 4 Deathrite is probably the more powerful thing right now, but it'll depend on what you have to play against.

The fourth mother again comes down to what you have to play against. I like it for the Delver matchups, but it might not be quite as fantastic if you're playing Sneak and Show and such all day.

[Richard Cheese]

Yisan really seems too slow in any build, and it actually stops tutoring after the third time (do people still run 4cc targets?). I'd just play Garruk Relentless if I wanted a reusable creature tutor. It still takes a turn to start tutoring, and it can actually do more things.

Eh, you could run a 1 of Thrun and Sigarda to get value out of him past 3, or stuff like Restoration Angel/Flickerwisp to reset counters.

[.Ix]

Sure, but it still seems too slow and vulnerable. Go ahead and experiment with Yisan if you want to. I'd love to be proven wrong about that card in Maverick, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Barook]

Jeff Hoogland 4-0 a daily event with the following list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/239285).

It's a bit of a different take with the additional NO route, but it's still clearly a Maverick deck. Pretty interesting, I must say.

[litenkatt]

Jeff Hoogland 4-0 a daily event with the following list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/239285).

It's a bit of a different take with the additional NO route, but it's still clearly a Maverick deck. Pretty interesting, I must say.

Intereseting list indeed.

[bryanzoll]

Intereseting list indeed.

Deck looks awesome, but I think it goes too heavy on the NO plan. What about tuning the deck to look something like a Dark Maverick build, with 3 NO, 1 Progenitus, and 1 Craeterhoof Behemoth? Similar to what Eli Kassis did in his NO BUG list.

My initial take on a decklist:

4x KoTR
3x DRS
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Noble Heirarch
3x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Progenitus
1x Craeterhoof Behemoth
1x Terastodon

1x Gaddock Teeg

4x Swords to Plowshares

4x GSZ
3x NO
3x Thoughtseize
1x Inquisition of Kozilek

2x Sylvan Library

7x Fetches
3x Wasteland
1x Dark Depths
1x Thepian's Stage
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
3x Forest
1x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Scrubland
2x Bayou

Thoughts?

[Stuhl]

Playing 3-4 NOs in addition to crop rotation might also allow us to play boseiju. Then zenith and NO are safe. Crop rotating boseiju EOT and playing NO into peogenitus = win!:)

Sent from my HUAWEI U9508 using Tapatalk

[bakofried]

It looks interesting, to say the least. I like Elderscale Wurm. I don't know how to feel about Proggy. Maybe run Dryad Militant in Teegs spot, to reduce the clash between Teeg and NO?

[ThediscoPower]

It looks interesting, to say the least. I like Elderscale Wurm. I don't know how to feel about Proggy. Maybe run Dryad Militant in Teegs spot, to reduce the clash between Teeg and NO?

You need a way to not lose against fast combo, especially game 1, and I believe teeg is a very good (and probably only) way to do that. Also, I like to see NO as another (slow, but possible) way to tutor Teeg against these decks, in the eventuality that you can't kill them fast enough. from that angle, running a militant instead sure looks like a mistake IMO.

And I will pile on, this deck seems SWEET. Jeff delivers again!

[Barook]

I threw Hoogland's list together and played a few games.

What I immediately noticed is that the deck needs a Scavening Ooze as GSZ target. Question is what to cut, especially since it's a 61-card list.

Edit:
@bryanzoll: Aren't 8 mana dorks a bit much? That aside, with so many weenie creatures, I miss Cradle in that list.

Should Ruric Thar go into the sideboard?

Edit #2: The NO list was fun, but I wanted to go further. So I came up with this greedy monstrosity:

1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Plains

2 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Progenitus
1 Terastodon

2 Crop Rotation
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Council's Judgment
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull


That's just a very rough list. Certain slots like Sigarda or Safekeeper weren't that hot in playtesting so far, so they're potential candidates to be cut. Adding at least another Wasteland and probably a third KotR are on the to-do list. What suprised me during playtesting is how well-rounded the angles of attack are - DD combo, SFM package and NO package gives you a high bomb density. Plan A doesn't work? Go for Plan B or C.

Not too sure about the sideboard yet, except 3 Zealous Persecution is a must. Discard is probably good as well.

[bakofried]

I think Sigarda, Safekeeper, Council's Judgment and a Savannah can be cut, and I agree you want a third (or fourth) knight and more wastelands.

[Barook]

I cut the Safekeeper for another Knight and replaced Sigarda with a Primeval Titan (just experimental).

I fail to see why I should cut a Savannah or Council's Judgement, though. The manabase needs some fine tuning. Replacing Savannahs with colorless Wastelands certainly isn't what I want to do.

[uncletiggy]

Id say the bog should be cut for the second wasteland before the savannah And the council's judgement could go to the board as well but I dont know for what either another land or sylvan library. I really like the list and may take some variation to scg baltimore next month.

[bakofried]

If you cut the Judgments, your manabase will have less of a strain. With NO, DD, and Stoneforge, you should be able to go straight over the top of decks that Judgment is good against.

[Barook]

Id say the bog should be cut for the second wasteland before the savannah And the council's judgement could go to the board as well but I dont know for what either another land or sylvan library. I really like the list and may take some variation to scg baltimore next month.
Putting Bog in the board and and adding another Wasteland sounds reasonable. There's already MD DRS and Ooze, so Bog might be a bit of overkill.

If the manabase isn't able to support :w::w: in the MD, I don't think it would be able to do so in the SB. If Judgement is cut, Scrubland becomes a lot more questionable with all the double green around. Whether it should be another Bayou, fetchland or Wasteland is up to debate. We could still run AD or Maelstrom Pulse in the board.

The free slots could be a third Hierarch (additional mana fixing and the deck is very mana-hungry), Sylvan Library or maybe an Eternal Witness like Hooglands list. The Primeval Titan is debateable - maybe it's good enough, maybe not. Only playtesting can show that.

What to put into the sideboard? 3 Persecutions are already set in stone since it's really good against various things. I'm currently testing Ruric Thar in board (tech shamelessly stolen from Julian Knab's Elves deck) and the results were good enough that I might keep it. Pithing Needles against stuff like Painter, Miracles, etc. is another strong consideration since we don't run Revokers like D&T. Maybe discard, maybe some more GY-hate, maybe some more removal (AD, Pulse), maybe even a Life from the Loam in the 75. Sword of Light and Shadow/Feast of Famien could be board considerations as well, but they're probably bringing in artifact hate already.

[bakofried]

Shit,I didn't see you had no Sylvan Libraries. I think that should be a two of here at minimum. Keeps those NO targets out of your hand.

I think Elderscale Wurm is a great idea. BUG and RUG can't deal with it, and it'll give a headache to any TNN deck. With him and Ruric Thar, you have combo and aggro covered. What about control? Terastodon? Hoof?

[Barook]

Shit,I didn't see you had no Sylvan Libraries. I think that should be a two of here at minimum. Keeps those NO targets out of your hand.

I think Elderscale Wurm is a great idea. BUG and RUG can't deal with it, and it'll give a headache to any TNN deck. With him and Ruric Thar, you have combo and aggro covered. What about control? Terastodon? Hoof?
I would never run more than 1-2 Libraries since every copy after the first one sucks.

BUG has Liliana to deal with it if they can clear the board. I don't think Hoof is good here since you rarely have enough creatures in play for an alpha strike.

[bakofried]

2 Libraries is a must here. Fixes all the dead draws you will have.

And Yeah, if BUG Delver can clear the board with a Lili in play, they have an out, but that's a pretty dominating position.

[Stuhl]

So, we go away from playing 4 Mother of Runes? Is she somehow outdated in the current meta?
I see that mana accelleration is more important here and Mother is of course a white creature, too. I'm just curious because MoR is somehow one of the most important parts of the traditional Maverick shell. "The best one-drop of all times" as she is called often. I see that with TNN, combo, miracles, BUG mechanics and all the other stuff MoR maybe is just not really doing something in a lot of times/match-ups.

I really like this new stuff and I'm excited about more reports/testing as I am not yet convinced. Is the DD combo still worth it in such a shell? I think playing less KotR would at least afford 1-3 Crop Rotations here for also getting other utility lands (as Jeff Hoogland's list does). I also like the idea of Seijiri Steppe which acts as an unexpected, single MoR activation to protect something. Againt S&T, dredge you have good access to Bog and Karakas. Overall I love Crop Rotation in such a deck.
Personally I still prefer Abrupt Decay over Council's Judgement which seems clunky in a deck which also has access to green and black mana.
What about the SFM package? I see that it adds a lot of versatility to the deck. But I'm not sure about the right number of SFMs. Also playing SoFaI now seems a bit "useless" as there is more access to some really big threats.
Drawing Progenitus of course will suck as you'll never be able to cast him whereas Terastodon (and more green creatues) can be cast via Cradle and dorks in some cases.

Just my thoughts=) I'm curious to see some reports!

[Barook]

I would run Mom if I could afford the space. But even without her, I've still killed plently of people with the DD combo so far. Just go for it when you're sure they don't have ways to deal with the token. I like being almost immune to -1/-1 effects.

I'll try out the 2x Sylvan Library in the spot of CJ. Maybe I'm just paranoid about TNN, but with the DD combo, Progenitus and SoFaI, it might be less of an issue.

I've never understood why people ran less than 4x Stoneforge in their Maverick decks. It's one of the most powerful cards in the format. Cutting down on the numbers just because doesn't do it to me. You want to go balls-deep in on the equipment route with all those mana accelerators.

That's also one of the aspects I like about this build. The threat trinity - SFM, NO and DD, is alot to deal with and makes pretty hard for your opponent to adapt. It's fun to have various ways that means lights-out for your opponent.

I'll probably tune the list in the upcoming weeks (I don't have that much time to play currently due to work) and play some daily events on MODO with it.

[Stuhl]

I just see that Thalias are also not in the list. That's of course another (if not the best) MD card against storm (and manaless dredge xD). I see she doesn't fit anymore due to own spells but atm I think storm would be a very bad MU as Teeg is the only MD hate.

[Barook]

Thalia massively classes with the MD strategy, that's why I left her out. You can still put her in the sideboard.

I'll try it out this Thalia-less version and see how it goes. Corners need to be cut if you want to try out something new.

[.Ix]

Barook:

I'll be testing this deck as well. How often do you go for the NO? What do you do if Prog is in hand?
I really want space for 4 Thoughtseize in the main because my meta is usually heavy on combo and Teeg can be too slow when tutored, but it might mess up the mana base.

Stuhl:

Mother of Runes has just been decent for me recently, so I've been slowly shaving them from the deck. It's completely useless against combo game 1, and there are lots of artifact decks and jitte+evasion around me.

[Barook]

Barook:

I'll be testing this deck as well. How often do you go for the NO? What do you do if Prog is in hand?
If I can go for NO, I'll do it at some point of the game - the sooner, the better. If Prog lands in my hand, it sucks, but I would probably go for something else. The deck has so much going on that being required to NO while Progenitus was in hand was never necessary. I would probably go for Terastodon and shit out tokens. I put back in Elderscale Wurm after that little analysis of bakofried. I never really wanted to fetch Primetime with NO. Maybe the slot could be something else.

I really like Ruric Thar in the sideboard. He makes Burn your bitch as long as you aren't basically dead on board. I'm not sure if he's MD material, though.

But I'm more interested what sideboard you guys would put together the current, rough list.

[Stuhl]

@Barook: I really would play more Wastelands. I think there won't be any mana issues with playing 6 dorks. I played GWb Maverick once with 4 Wastes, 5 dorks and DD combo and never really had greater mana issues.
Also I would try to play 3 KotR at least. She is a threat, too. And you can play down to curve. In a lot of cases KotR will catch your opponents counterspell as they won't expect something like NO next turn.
Terastodon is great! Progenitus, too. But I would not play too much fatties MD. If they stuck in your hand it's not good... Elderscale Worm seems actually like a SB card for me. Against RUG, BUG and things like that.
Terastodon seems more versatile in MD, especially if you think about some combo strategies like Painter or also S&T. Elderscale won't do much here against Emrakul, milling.
I think 2 fatties are enough MD.


Concerning the SB:

Well, I would play
4 Thoughtseize in any case.
2-3 Zealous Persecutions.
1 additional Teeg.
1 Bojuka Bog.
1 Ruric Thar seems pretty nice, too!
Not sure about Engineered Plague/Canonist/Tutor package. But if there is space, why not!
Also Surgical Extractions/additional Oozes are imo not necessary, as Crop Rotations in Bojuka Bog/one MD Ooze seems enough for me.
Maybe 1 Elderscale.

I really like that version! Will do some test runs, too. It's time that Maverick does some "unfair" things, too!:P

[Barook]

It would be nice to run more Wastelands, but I'm making baby steps to ensure that everything still works out fine. If you find a configuration with more Wastelands that's still consistent, awesome, but I already find myself mulling to due lack of right color way too often for my taste to add further Wastelands at the current point. I don't know about cutting down the NO targets. 3 sounds like a decent number since Terastodon seems more like a utility card with added beats. Worldspine Wurm seems expensive and unimpressive for what it does since it's another StP target, but could act as another Progenitus replacement.

And I'm already running 3 KotRs.

Edit: Current list:

1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Plains

2 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Progenitus
1 Terastodon

2 Crop Rotation
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

[bakofried]

Bahra has been doing well with Maverick on MTGO with something of a throwback list.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/11604

Interesting choices: no Libraries, 2 Scrybs, Sylvan Safekeeper. Thoughts?

[Barook]

The SFM package is definitely strong (I still have no idea how people can advocate running less than 4) and so is the DD combo for random wins. It certainly a decent list.

But it worth mentioning that Bahra is a good player and he mainly played scrubs in said daily events if you watched his stream.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Safekeeper, but I've added back a copy to the SB of my list and see how it goes. My current board looks like this:

2 Zealous Persecution
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Plague
4 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

I'd definitely like to run more Needles for stuff like Miracles, though. Hard to say what I should cut. Ruric Thar has been pretty good so far in testing. He's a keeper.

[Stuhl]

Yeah, the SFM package is really strong, but imo 2 Pridemages are also very strong for example. I think running 3 SFM's in spite of one more Pridemage is also reasonable. And there is more access via Zenith. Also playing 2 Libraries gives you more flexibility.
I recently try a list without SoFaI as I think by using the NO package you don't need it necessarily as it is mainly there to "race" against TNN. Playing 2 equips intuitively makes me play only 3 SFM's. I like a playset of KotR, as they are more flexible and (!) green. You can do so much things with an active KotR.
I also play 1 Divining Top these days. Imo 3 Libraries are not good as you may have multiple copies but 2 Libraries + 1 Top gives you some variance. You can just shuffle the Top away in case you draw a Library, etc.
I always feel that I for sure win each game I get a Library in game. There is twice as much versatility in a Maverick deck when you can manipulate your draws.
I'm still testing and will let you guys know as soon as I got some results!

[Barook]

I can see a 3/2 split of SFM/Pridemage working, but SFM is so strong that cutting copies somehow doesn't feel right. Report back how it works.

I wonder how good Courser of Kruphix with Library/SDT/shuffle effects would be.

[bakofried]

I will note that I can't see why a third Library would be worse than a single top. In what situation would you realistically want both in play? Just play a redundant Library for better game against Miracles and BGx decks.

[Stuhl]

In what situation would you realistically want both in play?

Top is more flexible as you can search more effective for an answer and you can do it more often a turn and also in your opponents turn. Having a KotR out means you can have a lot of fresh cards -> search fetchland -> look -> fetch -> look -> eventually draw the answer for something.
I don't know, I think the 1 mana for the activation isn't really a thing. The first activation is for free if you compare it with the 2 cmc cost of library.
Library just means one top activation (with eventually additional draw) at the beginning of your turn. Having both in play is at least more effective than having 2 libraries in play!

Well it's just my feeling :P
In general the first library gets countered/decayed anyway, so playing 3 libraries is justified, too. Actually they won't counter/blow your top=) (at least most).

[diakocjay]

Has anyone tested playing with Council's Judgement yet?

[from Cairo]

Has anyone tested playing with Council's Judgement yet?

I moved from DnT to Maverick and initially had Council's Judgment in my DnT then Maverick sideboard. As a DnT player I wanted Judgment to answer TNN/Jitte and occasionally Liliana of the Veil. With some testing I found that Maverick, assuming access to Black (Deathrite, Thoughtseize, etc), added the option of Zealous Persecution that answers TNN handily. GSZ -> Qasali Pridemage helps substantially against equipment. Overall I felt like Council's Judgment is very flexible, but costly. In a shell like DnT one has to accept the expensive mana cost for the flexibility of not having to splash colors, in Maverick the deck is already 2.5 colors, and there are more focused/efficient options available.

My preference is to have some Disenchant effect (an Aura Shards has done very good work out of the SB) and Zealous Persecution to address the TNN + Equipment dilemma and an Oblivion Ring and Phyrexian Revoker to splash Show and Tell and Planeswalkers.

[haganbmj]

I moved from DnT to Maverick and initially had Council's Judgment in my DnT then Maverick sideboard. As a DnT player I wanted Judgment to answer TNN/Jitte and occasionally Liliana of the Veil. With some testing I found that Maverick, assuming access to Black (Deathrite, Thoughtseize, etc), added the option of Zealous Persecution that answers TNN handily. GSZ -> Qasali Pridemage helps substantially against equipment. Overall I felt like Council's Judgment is very flexible, but costly. In a shell like DnT one has to accept the expensive mana cost for the flexibility of not having to splash colors, in Maverick the deck is already 2.5 colors, and there are more focused/efficient options available.

My preference is to have some Disenchant effect (an Aura Shards has done very good work out of the SB) and Zealous Persecution to address the TNN + Equipment dilemma and an Oblivion Ring and Phyrexian Revoker to splash Show and Tell and Planeswalkers.

I've been of a similar opinion regarding Council's Judgement. The card has been fine as a 1-of in a straight GW build as a 5th removal spell, but I'd rather be playing Abrupt Decay in that slot if I have the choice. True-Name has been on the decline locally, but generally Pridemage for equipment and having some form of alternate plan (Dark Depths) has been sufficient to get through game one and give me access to some sideboard options.

[diakocjay]

I appreciate your insights. How about nissa, worldwaker? Seems like a good pw but too high cmc. What do you guys think?

[haganbmj]

I appreciate your insights. How about nissa, worldwaker? Seems like a good pw but too high cmc. What do you guys think?

I would rather play Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Garruk Wildspeaker, Garruk Relentless, or Garruk, Primal Hunter (in no particular order) before the new Nissa. I think each is more powerful as a planeswalker and can better impact the table.

[haganbmj]

I'd been playing Junk for a few weeks and last Saturday decided to try straight GW again. That went alright (3-1), but I wanted to try messing with it a bit. I had this together for a Wednesday event, but ended up audibling to RG Combo Lands when offered the chance (3-0-1). So this ended up getting its first outing on Thursday (4-0).

It's a big unconventional with the exclusion of Green Sun's Zenith, but I wanted to try a bit more of a Deadguy Ale style list, emphasizing Stoneforge Mystic with Dark Depths in there for the longer games.



Spells (28+8=36)
Lands (24)
Sideboard (15)


4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswepth Heath

1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
4 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Rest in Peace
2 Life from the Loam
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Garruk Relentless



Round 1 v Reanimator (2-0)
Round 2 v UR Standstill (2-1) - nedleeds
Round 3 v Metalworker (2-0)
Round 4 v Death and Taxes (2-0)

Overall the list felt alright. Spirit of the Labyrinth is hit or miss, it does attack well with exalted triggers at the very least.
The sideboard was lacking a Jitte, but otherwise felt fine. I think there might be a better card than Garruk, I'm debating trying out a couple Bitterblossoms in the board. I really want something for Miracles, but Bitterblossom seems like it might play well in multiple matchups. I could see 3 Rest in Peace and 2 Bitterblossom being alright against BUG Delver.

Just something to consider. I've been meaning to try out a GSZ-less list for a while and it proved to be alright.

[door]

Has anybody ever tested Luminarch Ascension in Maverick against Miracles? Thinking about picking up Maverick againg and looking for some new ways.
I only found some theory on it in this thread and no results. Wondering if someone has actually tested it.

[Vandalize]

Has anybody ever tested Luminarch Ascension in Maverick against Miracles? Thinking about picking up Maverick againg and looking for some new ways.
I only found some theory on it in this thread and no results. Wondering if someone has actually tested it.

Seems like a good idea, I'll test it. 2-of in the sideboard?

[Stuhl]

I don't like it. It's too specific. Miracles may be the only deck against which you consistently get no damage and which can't really deal with enchantments. Pithing Needle on the other hand hurts miracles, too, but has more variance in general.

[haganbmj]

Has anybody ever tested Luminarch Ascension in Maverick against Miracles? Thinking about picking up Maverick againg and looking for some new ways.
I only found some theory on it in this thread and no results. Wondering if someone has actually tested it.

I used to play it in a small Enlightened Tutor package and it often felt slow and narrow. If you didn't resolve it on turn two then it often took far too long to get online and it's really only useful (to any degree) in the Miracles matchup. It wasn't nearly reliable enough in any match with Abrupt Decay.

I mentioned Bitterblossom in my last post and I'm curious if anyone has any experience with the card. Functionally it's pretty similar to Luminarch Ascension against miracles and I'd imagine it's a bit less hit or miss.

Generally the cards that are on my radar for dealing with Miracles are Gaddock Teeg, Sylvan Safekeeper, Pithing Needle.
Sometimes I'll want to throw a bone to Choke, but generally the combination of Mother, Pridemage, and Abrupt Decay has been effective for me depending on how experienced your opponent is in the matchup.

[Zombie]

I mentioned Bitterblossom in my last post and I'm curious if anyone has any experience with the card. Functionally it's pretty similar to Luminarch Ascension against miracles and I'd imagine it's a bit less hit or miss.

As an Elves player Bitterblossom has worked nicely for me against UW/UB durdle decks. They have a hard time answering one and you can commit less stuff to the board while maintaining pressure and forcing the Terminus. If you land Blossom+Teeg, they're pretty much gone I think, barring EE@2