[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[Warden]

@Benke:
Congrats on kicking some ass. I like where your lists goes. A few things to point out...
-2-3x SFM is where it's at. The only "issue" per se is Batterskull. I think Sword of X&Y #2 > Batterskull under most circumstances. I like Batterskull in the SB as it's relevant against Miracles as a threat + many midrange decks as a trump card.
-Maze of Ith....this card hasn't been in my list for over a year. I loved it to pieces but then realized it was a security blanket I didn't need. Cradle is the upgrade here. What Herzog and others correctly point out is that Cradle lets you explode on turns with equipment. In the midgame you can conceivably drop SFM, grab Jitte or Sword of X&Y, equip it on a dude who can attack, and profit....all in the same turn.
-Birds is a good call if you run 3 equipment and prefer 4 DRS. I am a bigger fan of 3 DRS + 2 Noble. As you saw, the exalted triggers can add up.
-2 Sylvan Library > 1
-4 Moms > 3
-I prefer a "balance" between QPM and Scooze. The 2:2 split is fine. Don't be afraid to put QPM #3 or Scooze #3 in the SB. They kick the crap out of different decks. If goyf and DRS run rampant in your meta, don't shy away from 3x ooze in your 75. People may give you shit for it initially ("that's a weird call man...idk if I agree with that") but Scooze. Eats. Graves.

Question:
How was Needle in the SB? Would you have preferred O-Ring/Banishing Light? Were there times you wanted WLL in the SB, especially against BUG?

[T-101]

Warden, I agree with most of your points.

I'm not entirely against maze, but if it is included, I'd play it as a 23rd land (it's basically a Knightable spell, and otherwise does not function as a land).

Needle is a great card. It's cheap, and colorless. O ring has upsides, but costing 1 is so powerful that I frequently add Needles to sbs when there isn't a super strong reason for something else.

[Cambriel]

I'm a big fan of Maze but it definitely takes a spell slot over a land. It's nice to be able to pressure people with Knight while still progressing the mana denial plan or searching up a Cradle.

[Benke]

@ Warden

Thanks for the input! Your suggestions makes sense.

I believe I'll switch the MB batterskull for a Sword of Feast and Famine instead of SoLaS because:

1) Stoneforge decks are not that represented in my current meta, meaning I'll rather have protection from green than white.
2) I rarely have a creature I want to bring back, since there are so many deathrites/my own ooze that eats the graveyard.
3) I understand that SoLaS is ok vs Miracles. It is only the pro-white that matters here, which can be obtained from a Mom.
4) Untapping all lands seems quite nice. Re-equipping on a blocking creature/deploy more threats after combat sounds better than gaining 3 lives + having no creature to bring back (often atleast)

Maze of Ith.. Yes, It should probably be cut.. It's so hard though - It's one of those card you really would love to be good, because you like it very much for some reason (Nostalgia I guess).
I imagine that Knight benefit a lot from having a Maze though. Also, it's a nice out against affinity / combolands but might just be too cute. Probably replacing it with a Cradle.

Moms I figured that I replace 1 MoM with a tutorable Safekeeper. Having 4 Moms+safekeeper seems excessive but atm I'm happy with the configuration. I love the instant effect of the safekeeper, great against storm/miracles. But then again, MB safekeeper might be for nostalgic reasons as well :)

Sylvan I hear you. Having a sylvan out equals a won game. Simple as that.

Needles One of a few really good SB cards against Miracles. I also really like the versatility of the card, great against Lands, Opposing Lilianas/Jaces, Vials, Sneak attacks etc. You always have something to name. I wouldn't go below 1-2 in the SB.
O-ring also has a lot of upside, but I think it's more narrow than Needle.

WLL The BUG players in my meta havent really adopted back post Treasure Cruice ban, so they rely more on denial than discard. If Shardless BUG begin to rise again, or if BUG delver starts to include Hymns/several Lilianas again, then I'll consider WLL. As for now, I think the card is too narrow and can't hold a spot in the SB.

[Cambriel]

I realize it's not our best matchup anyway, but I just cannot seem to make my elves matches even break parity. It is shockingly difficult to hate out all of the ways they can kill out of nowhere. Has anyone had much luck?

[Warden]

I realize it's not our best matchup anyway, but I just cannot seem to make my elves matches even break parity. It is shockingly difficult to hate out all of the ways they can kill out of nowhere. Has anyone had much luck?

Play black for sweepers. I run (seriously) 5 sweepers to hold the fort against them. I've been unsuccessful with 4 sweepers (2 Toxic, 2 ZP) and felt it wasn't enough even with additional removal a la Decay or PTE. The biggest issue I have is when I don't land a sweeper on turn 2 (zenith for 0 turn 1) or turn 3 on the play. I've watched Elves "go off" by decaying my turn 2 Teeg and just combo off. Very frustrating.

[jaydprickett]

Here is my unorthodox Vial/Wish Maverick list I have had some success with. The Vial/Wish interaction has been pretty powerful. It has been nice to have main deck answers to most situations. Thoughts?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze

4 Aether Vial
4 Living Wish
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

SB

4 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Containment Priest
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Bojuka Bog

I usually SB in one Containment Priest and leave one in SB for a wish target against relevant matchups. I go back and forth from Qasali Pridemage vs Leonin Relic-Warder. The Relic-Warder is 1 less mana but may not be a permanent solution.

[Fatal]

I don't like when everything dies to pyroclasm, why not even 1 KotR ?

[lordofthepit]

Here is my unorthodox Vial/Wish Maverick list I have had some success with. The Vial/Wish interaction has been pretty powerful. It has been nice to have main deck answers to most situations. Thoughts?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze

4 Aether Vial
4 Living Wish
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

SB

4 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Containment Priest
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Bojuka Bog

I usually SB in one Containment Priest and leave one in SB for a wish target against relevant matchups. I go back and forth from Qasali Pridemage vs Leonin Relic-Warder. The Relic-Warder is 1 less mana but may not be a permanent solution.

Are you the player that finished top 4 at the Washington, DC Premier IQ? I had previously played a Vial Maverick list similar to what M@verick was running (with Weathered Wayfarer), but there are a lot of things I like about the Living Wish build (including the Dark Confidants). I'd be interested in exchanging ideas.

[Gabuts007]

Got to the semis last sunday with this list:
4 KotR
4 Thalia
4 Mom
4 StP
4 GSZ
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Teeg
1 Pridemage
1 Scooze
1 SoFI
1 Sylvan Library

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas

4 Thoughtseize
3 Zealous Persecution (tired of losing to TNN)
2 Canonist
2 Choke
1 Teeg
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 SolaS

39 players, 6 rds swiss
Miracles 2-0
Both games were the old 1-2 punch of Knight fetching wastelands along with her buddy Thalia. No top deck Terminus :tongue:

Goblin Stompy 0-2
1. He was on the play with a first turn Magus of the Moon. Wasn't able to top deck a basic Plains. GG
2. Went the distance, however removal wasn't enough for his multiple Mogg Catchers tutoring for Kiki Jikki + Murderous Redcap. :frown:

Patriot 2-0
1. Knight got huge fast while decaying his Delvers.
2. Kept a land heavy opening hand because he was on the mana denial plan. He got carried away with stifles and wastelands, so he was left with a single Tundra for the last 5 turns so my Knights did what they do best. :laugh:

SnT 2-1
1. Emrakul from a Sneak Attack seems to be pretty good.
2. He got screwed with his own Blood Moon. Teeg with one Deathrite Shaman did all the 20 damage. Lol
3. Early beats with Thalia and Deathrite's with Mom on standby for Pyroclasm. Eventually top decked his SnT dropping his noodles, me with Knight. Got Karakas on my turn that's all she wrote.

Food Chain Griffins 0-2
1. He did not combo off both games. Got me delayed with his Strixes he played all 4 :laugh:. This went the distance, ended up being out aggroed which felt funny.
2. Early Clique carrying a Jitte against my Moms and dorks was brutal.

Dragon Stompy 2-0
1. He was on the play with a turn 1 Chalice set to 1 and a turn 2 Magus of the Moon, fortunately floating the black for a Decay. That was his only threat for the game so it was time for Knight smash!
2. Another early Blood Moon. My first play was on turn 3 for a GSZ fetching my singleton Pridemage. Knights went to town having a good time after that.

Got to top 7 after swiss.

Affinity 2-1
1. He was on the play with Chalice for 1. By this time I was about ready to puke with all the CotV's I played against that day. Ornitopter with a Cranial Plating loved me long time.
2. A long game with his Etched Champions holding the fort. My Deathrite Shaman did his best Grim Lavamancer impression to even up the match.
3. Two Revokers on Knight and Jitte, an Etched Champion and an Ornitopther. Of course, my favourite Chalice for 1 was giving me cold sweats. Made sure I save my Decays for the Platings. Me with 3 Knights at 5/5. He was down to 6 life from all his Ancient Tomb activation's. Knight put on the pressure. He missed on combat math so he was forced to chump block and was left with his Etched Champion and Da Vinci's invention. KNIGHT SMASH!!!:laugh:

Infect
He was a teammate so we decided to have him play for the finals against SnT for a more favorable match up. He eventually won and we split our prizes. :tongue:

[jaydprickett]

Are you the player that finished top 4 at the Washington, DC Premier IQ? I had previously played a Vial Maverick list similar to what M@verick was running (with Weathered Wayfarer), but there are a lot of things I like about the Living Wish build (including the Dark Confidants). I'd be interested in exchanging ideas.

I am not, but that is where I started from. I had been trying to jam Living Wish in legacy for awhile and soon as a I saw that list I loved it.

The main changes I made where the SB in particular and putting the 4 Thalia MD. Thalia is so good that I always want to draw her. With 4 MD we can free up the Living Wish for specific hate - Canonist/Teeg/Revoker for Combo.

This vial/wish build takes the hatebear even further then regular Maverick. Wish/Vial interaction allows for instantaneous hate.

[DudeItsCorey]

What is everyone's thoughts on Collected Company? This card seems broken and perfect in a Maverick or Bant Blade shell. I'm going to playtest it as a singleton and go from there. If anything, It seems like a great sideboard card against Miracles. But the potential value seems too good to pass up.

[.Ix]

Got to the semis last sunday with this list:
4 KotR
4 Thalia
4 Mom
4 StP
4 GSZ
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Teeg
1 Pridemage
1 Scooze
1 SoFI
1 Sylvan Library

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas

4 Thoughtseize
3 Zealous Persecution (tired of losing to TNN)
2 Canonist
2 Choke
1 Teeg
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 SolaS

39 players, 6 rds swiss
Miracles 2-0
Both games were the old 1-2 punch of Knight fetching wastelands along with her buddy Thalia. No top deck Terminus :tongue:

Goblin Stompy 0-2
1. He was on the play with a first turn Magus of the Moon. Wasn't able to top deck a basic Plains. GG
2. Went the distance, however removal wasn't enough for his multiple Mogg Catchers tutoring for Kiki Jikki + Murderous Redcap. :frown:

Patriot 2-0
1. Knight got huge fast while decaying his Delvers.
2. Kept a land heavy opening hand because he was on the mana denial plan. He got carried away with stifles and wastelands, so he was left with a single Tundra for the last 5 turns so my Knights did what they do best. :laugh:

SnT 2-1
1. Emrakul from a Sneak Attack seems to be pretty good.
2. He got screwed with his own Blood Moon. Teeg with one Deathrite Shaman did all the 20 damage. Lol
3. Early beats with Thalia and Deathrite's with Mom on standby for Pyroclasm. Eventually top decked his SnT dropping his noodles, me with Knight. Got Karakas on my turn that's all she wrote.

Food Chain Griffins 0-2
1. He did not combo off both games. Got me delayed with his Strixes he played all 4 :laugh:. This went the distance, ended up being out aggroed which felt funny.
2. Early Clique carrying a Jitte against my Moms and dorks was brutal.

Dragon Stompy 2-0
1. He was on the play with a turn 1 Chalice set to 1 and a turn 2 Magus of the Moon, fortunately floating the black for a Decay. That was his only threat for the game so it was time for Knight smash!
2. Another early Blood Moon. My first play was on turn 3 for a GSZ fetching my singleton Pridemage. Knights went to town having a good time after that.

Got to top 7 after swiss.

Affinity 2-1
1. He was on the play with Chalice for 1. By this time I was about ready to puke with all the CotV's I played against that day. Ornitopter with a Cranial Plating loved me long time.
2. A long game with his Etched Champions holding the fort. My Deathrite Shaman did his best Grim Lavamancer impression to even up the match.
3. Two Revokers on Knight and Jitte, an Etched Champion and an Ornitopther. Of course, my favourite Chalice for 1 was giving me cold sweats. Made sure I save my Decays for the Platings. Me with 3 Knights at 5/5. He was down to 6 life from all his Ancient Tomb activation's. Knight put on the pressure. He missed on combat math so he was forced to chump block and was left with his Etched Champion and Da Vinci's invention. KNIGHT SMASH!!!:laugh:

Infect
He was a teammate so we decided to have him play for the finals against SnT for a more favorable match up. He eventually won and we split our prizes. :tongue:

Good job! Was this the GPT in Manila? What's with all the Stompy/Chalice decks over there these days? :laugh:

[iamajellydonut]

What is everyone's thoughts on Collected Company? This card seems broken and perfect in a Maverick or Bant Blade shell. I'm going to playtest it as a singleton and go from there. If anything, It seems like a great sideboard card against Miracles. But the potential value seems too good to pass up.

I wouldn't be too sad to go down in GSZ count in order to run this card to some degree. As you said, the value is absolutely insane. Absolute worst case scenario in terms of value is that you get a instant Mom and Deathrite Shaman at 3G. Oh no.

[ThediscoPower]

I wouldn't be too sad to go down in GSZ count in order to run this card to some degree. As you said, the value is absolutely insane. Absolute worst case scenario in terms of value is that you get a instant Mom and Deathrite Shaman at 3G. Oh no.

This is exactly what I thought too. Just the fact that even our low cost creatures are already crazy good, the prospect of getting 2 of them at instant speed is incredible value on board. And in magical christmas land, we have sylvan library on board to try to set up something. I like it a lot, and I think a 1-of in the maindeck seems good. Does it replace a green sun? i don't know. But I definitely want a copy of that card somewhere in my 75.

[Cambriel]

This is exactly what I thought too. Just the fact that even our low cost creatures are already crazy good, the prospect of getting 2 of them at instant speed is incredible value on board. And in magical christmas land, we have sylvan library on board to try to set up something. I like it a lot, and I think a 1-of in the maindeck seems good. Does it replace a green sun? i don't know. But I definitely want a copy of that card somewhere in my 75.

I'm not sold on it yet. 4 mana is a lot for a Thalia deck, and GSZ is frequently cast much earlier than 4 mana in order to establish a board presence. It also snags a silver bullet, rather than fiddling around with the top 10% of the deck and giving you whatever you find.

I think it's a strong card, but it doesn't feel like it belongs in this archetype.

[Luthiereisfun]

I am going to try Collected Company as a 1 of but I don't know if it makes the cut. I definitely don't think it replaces GSZ just because of how versatile it is.

My main gripes with it, is that it costs 5 mana with Thalia and at 4 mana we could be playing Garruk or Elspeth which can be great value engines if they stick and take over games. It also is a non-bo with teeg.

I think CC definitely has potential. I think the benefit here is how explosive it can be. Maverick to me is a deck that wants to build board states and get far enough ahead that the opponent can't deal with us. CC seems to be proactive in that plan (imagine EOT hitting a knight + any other creature it would be pretty nuts).

I really think it could be good at getting ahead, where planeswalkers will be slower.

I hope it ends up being viable, but who knows

[Gabuts007]

Good job! Was this the GPT in Manila? What's with all the Stompy/Chalice decks over there these days? :laugh:

Yeah it was. No idea, maybe it was bring your CoTV to work day. :tongue:

[DudeItsCorey]

I'm not sold on it yet. 4 mana is a lot for a Thalia deck, and GSZ is frequently cast much earlier than 4 mana in order to establish a board presence. It also snags a silver bullet, rather than fiddling around with the top 10% of the deck and giving you whatever you find.

I think it's a strong card, but it doesn't feel like it belongs in this archetype.

With our mana dorks, 4 mana isn't all that much. I am constantly GSZ for 3 (cmc 4) for Knight and how would this be any different? I don't think that we eliminate GSZ from the list. I think we run it alongside each other. I plan on running 3 GSZ and 2 Collected Company and tweak from there. Maybe it's bad, but the potential seems too good to overlook.

[DudeItsCorey]

I am going to try Collected Company as a 1 of but I don't know if it makes the cut. I definitely don't think it replaces GSZ just because of how versatile it is.

My main gripes with it, is that it costs 5 mana with Thalia and at 4 mana we could be playing Garruk or Elspeth which can be great value engines if they stick and take over games. It also is a non-bo with teeg.

I think CC definitely has potential. I think the benefit here is how explosive it can be. Maverick to me is a deck that wants to build board states and get far enough ahead that the opponent can't deal with us. CC seems to be proactive in that plan (imagine EOT hitting a knight + any other creature it would be pretty nuts).

I really think it could be good at getting ahead, where planeswalkers will be slower.

I hope it ends up being viable, but who knows

I disagree. I believe our deck excels when both players are in top deck mode. Our draws/threats are usually always stronger.

[Luthiereisfun]

That's a fair point and I can't argue with that. On the subject of top deck mode, CC seems like it would be good in getting quite a bit of gas.

I have had it happen in enough games where although, a narrow situation I think it can be common enough to see CC benefits against liliana. It can be pretty tough fighting lilli in top deck mode sometimes because if you play a threat they make you sacrifice it and if you dont thythey can make you discard. CC would be pretty sweet in response to a lilli's +1. But so would a planeswalker and those haven't being see much play.

[DudeItsCorey]

That's a fair point and I can't argue with that. On the subject of top deck mode, CC seems like it would be good in getting quite a bit of gas.

I have had it happen in enough games where although, a narrow situation I think it can be common enough to see CC benefits against liliana. It can be pretty tough fighting lilli in top deck mode sometimes because if you play a threat they make you sacrifice it and if you dont thythey can make you discard. CC would be pretty sweet in response to a lilli's +1. But so would a planeswalker and those haven't being see much play.

A great way to help keep threats on board against lily is to keep a green fetch back. That way when your opponent -2, you in response fetch for Dryad Arbor. Although, it doesn't always work out that way, it is a helpful tool to have.

[iamajellydonut]

But so would a planeswalker and those haven't being see much play.

Difference being that planeswalkers themselves are situational while Collected Company only makes use of tools that you have deemed worthy of your deck.

[Warden]

With our mana dorks, 4 mana isn't all that much. I am constantly GSZ for 3 (cmc 4) for Knight and how would this be any different? I don't think that we eliminate GSZ from the list. I think we run it alongside each other. I plan on running 3 GSZ and 2 Collected Company and tweak from there. Maybe it's bad, but the potential seems too good to overlook.

I respectfully disagree. I am in the camp that emphasizes "GSZ is flexible and lets you search for bullets". IMHO, the point of GSZ in the deck is that it's a glue to magically insert [situational green creature you need]. On top of that, GSZ is usually just cycled back into the deck so I can eventually cast it again.

Collected Company is a different animal. It's more like Fact or Fiction for green. Ultimately, FoF is perceived as cumbersome. The hivemind that is TheSource may reach similar conclusions. "Look at the top 6 of your library and pick 2 creatures that meet a specified criteria" is nothing to scoff at. However, the effect is along the lines of "I want to draw raw cards". This is a different drawing dynamic than GSZ. The times I GSZ, I tutor for crap like Arbor, Teeg, QPM, Scooze (utility folk) buried in my library. Such tutoring usually wins me the game, as I have specific answers for specific board-states and/or decks. We'll have to think about restructuring the deck to work with "I want to draw raw cards". It can work with Confidant. It can work with Sylvan Library. However, those cards are not spells with a 1-time effect for 3G.

I also want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the card overall. It's damn powerful. I'm guess I'm getting at how we should stop and think about how the card works. Let's not rush to "yeah, this is replacing GSZ". That would be a mistake. Instead, I would alter Maverick's composition ensure I cna hit 3G more often. The "issue" with hitting 4 mana spells is with how Maverick inherently wins (large % due to wasteland-thalia). Similarly, what the hell do we cut? In terms of replacing flex slots, we're probably stepping on the toes of SFM, equipment, 1-2 bears, and sylvan library. I wouldn't "shave down" the number of valuable creatures I ran because I'd want to reveal them with Collected Company. We'll have to construct lists that cater to this card.

Last, I want to raise an interesting note about my own successes using Natural Order. For argument's sake, the concept of needing to play a 4cc "spell" is similar. I didn't cut GSZ to make room for NO; I ran both. However, I ran NO in the SB --- usually at the expense of Thalia. If I dropped Thalia from the main, it would be in favor of something big. Like MD natural order big. I am not sure Thalia + Collected Company cause too many headaches. On paper it seems the deck would be running competing strategies if you shoehorn in Company.

[DudeItsCorey]

I respectfully disagree. I am in the camp that emphasizes "GSZ is flexible and lets you search for bullets". IMHO, the point of GSZ in the deck is that it's a glue to magically insert [situational green creature you need]. On top of that, GSZ is usually just cycled back into the deck so I can eventually cast it again.

Collected Company is a different animal. It's more like Fact or Fiction for green. Ultimately, FoF is perceived as cumbersome. The hivemind that is TheSource may reach similar conclusions. "Look at the top 6 of your library and pick 2 creatures that meet a specified criteria" is nothing to scoff at. However, the effect is along the lines of "I want to draw raw cards". This is a different drawing dynamic than GSZ. The times I GSZ, I tutor for crap like Arbor, Teeg, QPM, Scooze (utility folk) buried in my library. Such tutoring usually wins me the game, as I have specific answers for specific board-states and/or decks. We'll have to think about restructuring the deck to work with "I want to draw raw cards". It can work with Confidant. It can work with Sylvan Library. However, those cards are not spells with a 1-time effect for 3G.

I also want to clarify that I'm not opposed to the card overall. It's damn powerful. I'm guess I'm getting at how we should stop and think about how the card works. Let's not rush to "yeah, this is replacing GSZ". That would be a mistake. Instead, I would alter Maverick's composition ensure I cna hit 3G more often. The "issue" with hitting 4 mana spells is with how Maverick inherently wins (large % due to wasteland-thalia). Similarly, what the hell do we cut? In terms of replacing flex slots, we're probably stepping on the toes of SFM, equipment, 1-2 bears, and sylvan library. I wouldn't "shave down" the number of valuable creatures I ran because I'd want to reveal them with Collected Company. We'll have to construct lists that cater to this card.

Last, I want to raise an interesting note about my own successes using Natural Order. For argument's sake, the concept of needing to play a 4cc "spell" is similar. I didn't cut GSZ to make room for NO; I ran both. However, I ran NO in the SB --- usually at the expense of Thalia. If I dropped Thalia from the main, it would be in favor of something big. Like MD natural order big. I am not sure Thalia + Collected Company cause too many headaches. On paper it seems the deck would be running competing strategies if you shoehorn in Company.

Warden I think you're reading the card wrong. it's an instant speed - look at the top 6 cards of your library and select up to two creatures with cmc 3 or less and put them onto the Battlefield. It serves a different purpose than GSZ as it's more of a game ender than a silver bullet finder, your right. I'm restructuring the deck to go down on 1 GSZ and moving Sigarda to the sideboard. Also, I'm debating on whether to put in Bobs over Library. Lastly, I'm going down to two Abrupt decays from three to put in a second Qasali mainboard.

[Warden]

Warden I think you're reading the card wrong. it's an instant speed - look at the top 6 cards of your library and select up to two creatures with cmc 3 or less and put them onto the Battlefield. It serves a different purpose than GSZ as it's more of a game ender than a silver bullet finder, your right. I'm restructuring the deck to go down on 1 GSZ and moving Sigarda to the sideboard. Also, I'm debating on whether to put in Bobs over Library. Lastly, I'm going down to two Abrupt decays from three to put in a second Qasali mainboard.

Picture: http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/68/74/635612641265307832.png

I am aware it's instant speed, which made me compare it to FoF in terms of raw card draw. However, the points I brought up remain. I think the deck would have to be restructured in a way that caters to this card. I am not sure what that maindeck would resemble. I view its role as a jack-of-all-trades rather than a finisher/game ender. At least we are on the same page comparing its role vs GSZ.

Here is my 60 any given day (Herzog model):
//23 Lands
22 Whatever
1 Dryad Arbor

//22 Core Creatures
5 Mana Dorks (Deathrite Shaman, Noble Hierarch)
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Utility bears (Scavenging Ooze, Qasali Pridemage, Scryb)
1 Gaddock Teeg

//5 Flex
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of ___ & ___ (usually Light and Shadow)

//10 Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library

What do I shift around? I could see perhaps -1 thalia, -1 library and/or -1 equipment for certain metas. Some recent winning lists already do this in favor of MD decays and a big finisher like Sigarda. An interesting concept would be run some amount of Collected Company + Eternal Witness.

[ThediscoPower]

I'm not sold on it yet. 4 mana is a lot for a Thalia deck, and GSZ is frequently cast much earlier than 4 mana in order to establish a board presence. It also snags a silver bullet, rather than fiddling around with the top 10% of the deck and giving you whatever you find.

I think it's a strong card, but it doesn't feel like it belongs in this archetype.

well, we are already casting green sun's at variable costs, including 4 (knight, courser), 5 (sometimes, thrun, but i don't run him) 6 (sigarda). it's not impossible to reach 4 mana here, nor is it out of the ordinary.

However, where I do agree is that we do have to compare it against plainswalkers, and see how it stacks up in their spots. And this is where I might be biased (or too hyped), but I think I like this card more than them. I tried to make them work (Sorin LoI, Elspeth, Garruck relentless, but they always came short for me, somehow. Elspeth was actually the better one out of the 3, but sometimes, I felt that even then, she (and the others) just didn't fit in my strategy (never casted them, or casted them but they could have been anything else, it would not have mattered), or felt too situational. In the end, I ended up just cutting all my plainswalkers.

What plays for Collected Company is, IMO, the fact that it's an instant (i think a sorcery version of this card is probably unplayable), and the fact that it puts creatures directly in play, and not in hand. As such, I don't think it can be compared to fact or fiction, the card advantage it provides is completely different (and more powerful in a sense, because it devellops the board with the creatures you found ''for free'', when it doesn't fail. This isn't a draw 2 cards effect). It also can't be compared to green sun, this isn't a flexible tutor (and why I think you can't replace a green sun with this card). This is just a way to throw cards into play, at instant speed, but for a deck built around it. As it happens, we are probably already build for that (or the closest), with what? 25 creatures usually? 0-1 of them over 3 cmc? i think the opportunity is too good to pass, IMO, as a one of. You probably want to see it once in the game as a value card.

[Cambriel]

Warden has hit all of the salient points for why I think this is the wrong shell for Collected Company. Hell, there might end up being a legacy deck out there that runs it... even runs it in junk colors. I just don't think it fits the strategy of Maverick. That potential shell in the future might even end up *better*, but it will be something fundamentally different.

Maverick is about choosing the one, right tool for the job. Grabbing two instant speed Knights sounds pretty sweet, but it isn't going to happen that often. We're not after raw card advantage. If I *have* to pay 4 mana, I'd rather pay it for 1 guaranteed Knight (or a NO > Progenitus) than the chance at two. The variance is too high.

[Luthiereisfun]

so do you guys think that there is a list where Collected Company and GSZ could co exist? Maybe 4 GSZ and 1 CC? or like others have mentioned do they both just cater to too much of different strategies that you have to build around one.

I think that you could possibly get away with 4 GSZ and 1 CC in the 75 but I also see the arguement of why CC isn't what we want.

If we were to try and make a list that catered to CC what would we change or where would we start? (I realize that mkaing certain changes could get us away from the heart of what maverick really is/wants to do)

The prospect of putting in two value creatures into play at instant speed is too much fun to not try/test

I think it would be fun to talk and think about even though I don't think anything too serious will come from it

[DudeItsCorey]

so do you guys think that there is a list where Collected Company and GSZ could co exist? Maybe 4 GSZ and 1 CC? or like others have mentioned do they both just cater to too much of different strategies that you have to build around one.

I think that you could possibly get away with 4 GSZ and 1 CC in the 75 but I also see the arguement of why CC isn't what we want.

If we were to try and make a list that catered to CC what would we change or where would we start? (I realize that mkaing certain changes could get us away from the heart of what maverick really is/wants to do)

The prospect of putting in two value creatures into play at instant speed is too much fun to not try/test

I think it would be fun to talk and think about even though I don't think anything too serious will come from it

I think that we have to wait for the card to be in circulation before we really know. I think that Bant Blade may be another deck that could utilize the card, but would definitely have to be restructured to be more Creature heavy with counterspell backup for combo. Having access to the likes of Knight of the Reliquary, Tarmogoyf, Stoneforge, TNN, maybe the best shell for it. Death and Taxes could possible run it if it wants to start splashing green (which would then gain access to Teeg). The reason I feel this deck would be a great placement is because it's already very creature heavy. For Maverick you definitely don't replace the Green Sun Zenith (Maybe go down to 3), but you could restructure the deck to play Bobs instead of Library, more Qasali if you're mainboarding Abrupt Decay, etc. Again the value is too much to not at least attempt.

[iamajellydonut]

Right now what I'm thinking is...

1) You have to have some way to make use of its instant speed. Yes, being an instant is inherently more useful than being a sorcery, but if you end your turn with three cards in hand and four mana open, it's pretty telling what you're planning on doing. Punishing Maverick? Flash creatures? Some way to make its instant status feel natural.

2) It's mana heavy. I have an unorthodox idea that I'm going to keep to myself for now just so that the thread doesn't get cluttered by people spouting bullshittery.

[The_Dingo]

Maybe this card doesn't have universal applicability in every MU, but I think it addresses a major problem Maverick has against Miracles. Normally we have to walk that awkward line between committing too much and getting blown out by a terminus OR sandbagging a bunch of dudes and just having them all get plowed one at a time until they slap us with entreat or Jace. Now we have the option to EoT this, and even if a terminus wipes our board we're trading one for one. This also applies to shardless, we can now afford to force their toxic deluge without losing too much.

[test1985]

Just my 2 cents..

Is the card good? Damn right, it is! Is it better than GSZ? Maybe, maybe not.

Do you need to tutor your 1-of and 2-of cards on the fly? (Eg: scryb, scooze, qasali, teeg, etc.) if your answer is yes or sometimes, then GSZ is better. If your answer is never, then cc is better.

If your deck is like zoo: 4-of every fatty, then CC is better.

Vs miracles: GSZ has the flexibility to dodge cb lock.
Vs combo: Turn 2 teeg off a GSZ is simply better.

Looking at longterm.. Did you see the new Liliana in mtg origins expansion? How'd you feel about fetching a planeswalker? :)

[Luthiereisfun]

How I am kind of viewing CC (and if anyone disagrees or thinks different then I am keen to hear, because I feel like I can always learn from others and thats how I can improve) is that mid-late game instead of drawing 1 creature off the top off our deck, why not draw what can give us 2 creatures at instant speed?

That's why I think we could run it as a 1 of because T1-T3 we want to be setting up our board, casting GSZ to tutor whichever creature we're looking for, but then CC could be a nice top deck/late game gas that lets us keep up with the pace of games.

IMO it serves a totally different purpose then GSZ. When I draw GSZ it's like drawing any green creature in my deck and I want to get whatever will be the biggest pain in the butt and most disruptive for the other person.

This silver bullet/tool box function is key to Maverick and is why this deck can have success (I realize that this is all obvious stuff, and things we already know).

However I don't think having GSZ and the toolbox mechanic makes us turn down such raw card advantage that I feel like already fits our shell. If I had the choice I rather drop 2 creatures off the top of my deck then 1.

In my own deck I have a flew flex spots and already have more than enough 3 cmc or below creatures to make it an easy inclusion.

Some people have made really good points against the card and we will probably just have to wait and see.

[Cambriel]

How I am kind of viewing CC (and if anyone disagrees or thinks different then I am keen to hear, because I feel like I can always learn from others and thats how I can improve) is that mid-late game instead of drawing 1 creature off the top off our deck, why not draw what can give us 2 creatures at instant speed?

What you're describing is basically why we run Sylvan Library. It lets you keep pace with the attrition decks and the cantrip decks.

Collected Company needs to win when you cast it. It needs to push you so far ahead, or lock the opponent out so strongly, that resolving it is a do-or-die moment. Otherwise, there is simply no reason to cast a 4 cmc instant in this format. We don't play the kind of creatures that allow for Collected Company to combo off or win out of nowhere. BEST case scenario is make 2 Knights, untap, double Wasteland. That's strong, but it's not an auto-win, and it's also not an especially likely draw. What happens when the best you get is a Mom and a DRS?

The silver bullet nature of our deck already gives us some pretty sketchy opening 7s. I really don't want one more card clogging up my opening hand. I hope someone tries it, but I'm going to take a wait and see approach. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

[iamajellydonut]

BEST case scenario is make 2 Knights, untap, double Wasteland. That's strong, but it's not an auto-win

Isn't it? A single Knight of the Reliquary untapping is the beginning of the end more often than not. I can't imagine the damage that two off the top could do.

Or Knight and Stoneforge Mystic. Or Knight and Deathrite Shaman. Or Stoneforge and Deathrite. Hell, I mentioned earlier that snagging even a Mother of Runes and Deathrite Shaman wouldn't be too bad of a play, and I stand by that.

[maharis]

Isn't it? A single Knight of the Reliquary untapping is the beginning of the end more often than not. I can't imagine the damage that two off the top could do. Or Knight and Stoneforge Mystic. Or Knight and Deathrite Shaman. Or Stoneforge and Deathrite. Hell, I mentioned earlier that snagging even a Mother of Runes and Deathrite Shaman wouldn't be too bad of a play, and I stand by that.

You are right. Card is straight-up insane. It's a double GSZ, a small Glimpse, and a Dig Through Time all in one.

[iamajellydonut]

I mean, people are valid in saying that it's 4cc. Because, well, it is. But I don't understand why that's so oppressive. It's not like the end goal isn't already to spend four mana digging up a Knight with Green Sun's Zenith. Or spend four mana casting and strapping an Umezawa's Jitte. Or spending five mana casting and strapping a Swords or dropping a Batterskull.

It's a calculated choice of do you want Collected Company to be the trump card in your deck. And so far, for me, I say yes.

Right now I'm working on Punishing Maverick. It changes the dynamics of the deck pretty significantly, so I haven't pinned down anything I'm comfortable with, but it has proven to be nothing but a champ. Anyone who wants to see sample reveals, load up The Cock.de, play a goldfish till you get to four mana, and then just repeatedly press ctrl+w (=6) and ctrl+s. There are moments when you semi-wiff and only hit one creature, so you do have to keep a fairly large creature count, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[Luthiereisfun]

From what I've read on here I think most people's gripe is the variance. Because all the swords/batterskull should end the game. Casting the GSZ for knight you know for sure if it resolves you will have a knight on board.

But with CC you have that variance where maybe you only hit one Thalia, or a mom and DRS which although good isn't game ending and is quite a bit for 4 mana.

That said though and maybe I am getting too into perfect x-mas land/or only thinking of upsides and not the bigger picture, but I feel in a late game setting if I am low on cards in hand and I have 4 mana I rather draw the 4cmc spell where I am using all my mana and have the potential to get 2 value creatures instead of just drawing and playing a mom late game for 1 mana.

[Warden]

From what I've read on here I think most people's gripe is the variance. Because all the swords/batterskull should end the game. Casting the GSZ for knight you know for sure if it resolves you will have a knight on board.

But with CC you have that variance where maybe you only hit one Thalia, or a mom and DRS which although good isn't game ending and is quite a bit for 4 mana.

That said though and maybe I am getting too into perfect x-mas land/or only thinking of upsides and not the bigger picture, but I feel in a late game setting if I am low on cards in hand and I have 4 mana I rather draw the 4cmc spell where I am using all my mana and have the potential to get 2 value creatures instead of just drawing and playing a mom late game for 1 mana.

Not to be snarky at all, but if I were to jam a 4cc green spell alongside GSZ, I might as well go for broke with maindeck Natural Order (assuming I can cast it). I'm thinking I'd prefer cheating Ruric Thar / Progenitus / big stupid thing than an uncertain chance off the top. CC's christmas land is really nice. But you can't think pure-upside. CC will see legacy play. A deck needs to mold around it. It may find a home in Maverick, but no doubt you'd have to shake up lists since it's cramming competing strategies together (never a good thing....look at bant.dec for the past 3 years).

[Cambriel]

I would actually want it much more in something like Nic-Fit where getting to 4, 5 or even 6 mana is rarely a problem. Toss it in with Veteran Explorer, Baleful Strix, Cabal Therapy and Recurring Nightmare. Even there, the deck structure wants giant monsters to hard cast later on, so finding 3cmc dudes might be tough. It's a very strong card that may just require a new archetype, or a twist no one has seen yet.

[NateC14]

Just my two cents, but I think Collected Company could be a great 2-3 of sideboard for a fair number of Legacy match-ups. I'm talking mainly about other creature deck match-ups, e.g., Death and Taxes, Merfolk, Goblins, Elves, Delver, Shardless BUG, Jund, Mirrors. I say this because these decks are less affected by the Thalias, (save maybe Delver and Shardless), and more disrupted by being overwhelmed with creatures. In these match-ups I would want more spot removal like Paths or Abrupt Decays and access to instant creature advantage to stuff my opponent. The Thalia approach is utilized main deck for combo, control and most decks with blue. But even Miracles, since its a slower match-up, I could see both Thalias and Collected Companies playing a role. This card is definitely worth playtesting to evaluate its potential as a killer sideboard card for many Legacy matches IMHO.

[Fatal]

I started from Maverick shell now test deck looks like this:

Noncreature spells(10):

4 Collected Company
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Green Sun's Zenith

//creatures(30):
3 Eternal Witness
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Mentor of the Meek
1 Priest of Urabrask
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Kessig Malcontents
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Village Bell-Ringer
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Deathrite Shaman

//Lands(20):
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 Karakas
3 Gaea's Cradle
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bayou
//SB:
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Choke


Few explenations: this deck remind be old MOST construction.
Main CA engine is CC and E.Witness, second CA engine is Mentor of the Meek - its really works very well as Glimpse on the Stick.

Deck contain many syngergies and combos:
Instant kill combo - Kiki - Bell, both can be searched by Imperial Recruiter it kills by combat, but with any mana dork it can easy kill directly via Kessig Malcontent (works fine also as reach finisher, or plainwalker killer, Pries of Urabrask is interesting choose (mostly mana fixer, also nice with equipment).
There are also most GSZ targets - Ooze, Kotr, Pridemages. Deck is also focused on Human Theme (uncounterable, recuiter/witness bring enough CA vs controls).

What is missing (since its still 60 card deck) - I actually moved to sb direct removal - StP, in most games I could cump enough long to get advantage(similar to goblin strategy but you have more silverbullets under GSZ and Recruiter) - sure you can always use equips as removal. Imperial Recruiter is probably one of the most important card in this deck - similar to Goblin Matron.

Deck is very focused on creatures (30) this mean we have very big chance to find 2 creatures in 6 cards. Deck runs only 21 lands (counting 3 cradles and dryad) this mean initial mana are only 17 lands - similar to some RUG lists, this mean its very important to search mana dorks on start, After you cast first CC it will be mostly game.

Configuration of toolboxed creature is very dependent on your meta:
more creatures to use:
Singscourger (works great vs S&T) - I like it more then creature exile effect since its more permanent
Phyrexian Revoker - still thinking to fit it in MB
Goblin Sharpshooter - this creature can be house
if you afraid -1/-1 effects - Mayor of Avabruck

As SB card against tempo decks you can easy use Meekstone, almost all your creatures can easy working under it (maybe without KotR).

Probably this deck could also works with Vials/Wayfarer build. Not sure does it also fit thalia - but with active cradle its mostly easy to cast in one turn CC + stuff searched.

[Barook]

17 actual lands sounds way too greedy. I would definitely up the number of lands while cutting some of the rather "cute" utility.

[Fl0do]

I have some questions regarding Thoughtseize in the SB and I'm curious how you apporach the different matchups.

I'm testing with Maverick a lot lately but I'm sticking more to permanent hate (for combo, miracles, ...) like more Teegs, Canonists, Containment Priests etc. instead of some Thoughtseize (4 would be the number) because it feels strong to create soft-locks that can be protected (with Mother of Runes). I do know that hate should also be diversified to put pressure on the opponents anti-hate and Thoughtseize is a really powerful card. I just wonder in which matchups do you guys board in the Thoughtseizes and how your general gameplan is with Thoughtseize in mind.

At the moment I'm playing a Abzan stock list, 4 Deathrite Shamans, 1 Sigarda, 1 SoLaS, 1 SoFaI, 1 Jitte with this SB:

2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Abrupt Decay

Also any advice for the matchups vs. the BG-Shell? My last tournament was ok, but forgot that Shardless Bug and Jund are decks and just didn't prepare for those and therefore lost 1-2 and 0-2. I feel like the matchup vs. those aren't that easy, especially without Punishing Fire.
Won against Miracles 2-0, Death and Taxes 2-0 and Burn 2-1 though.

[Luthiereisfun]

I feel like Wilt Leaf Liege is a good go to against BGx decks. It's good against hymns/lili, dodges abrupt decay and would make a lot of our creatures out of punishing range. You could also use sword of feast and famine or mirran crusader if you really wanted to pack a lot against them.

edit: I also think scavenging ooze could be really good when it comes to eating graveyards to make goyf smaller, beating DRS and gaining life. You also get to eat punishing fires.

[iamajellydonut]

I feel like Wilt Leaf Liege is a good go to against BGx decks. It's good against hymns/lili, dodges abrupt decay and would make a lot of our creatures out of punishing range. You could also use sword of feast and famine or mirran crusader if you really wanted to pack a lot against them.

When was the last time you were truly so desperate against BGx that you needed to include a miser's anti-discard tech?

[Fl0do]

I don't think Wilt-Leaf Liege is needed as long the metagame isn't flooded with -1/-1 effects. I was more asking for general advice for approaching these matchups :)

[Luthiereisfun]

I perosnally don't have any in my list but if there's a bunch of jund and bug running around I think it could be reasonable in the sb if you're having problems against them

[Strassbaw]

Hello Maverick players,

I have not posted in a few months, however I am still actively playing Punishing Dark Maverick in 2015 and I'm still hooked. I have a million questions for the forum on the deck, however, I'll keep it small for now.

First, how have players felt about Scryb Ranger as of RECENTLY. This card hasn't caught my attention until I seen Delver, Stifle and Wasteland decks get more play since Treasure Cruise got banned.

Next I would like discuss the inclusion of SFM and Batterskull for decks. Personally on Punishing Maverick I've enjoyed 2x Jitte more than SFM, however, delver decks make SFM more appealing to me. Do you think 2x Jitte is underwhelming in a meta full of delver decks, elves and Miracles. SFM is clunky in my deck, however, using cards like Scryb Ranger may be even worse for me.

Now I would like to discuss Pyroblast in a maverick decks sideboard. This card seems attractive to me for a variety of reasons, however, it's not the kind of Haymaker sideboard card I'm used to like Choke. Currently my board has 1x choke (2x Etutors) and 2 pyroblast for general blue hate. Does Pyroblast seem like a good choice, or it's it's efficiency and power less desirable than a game-ending card.

Lastly I have an Abzan build in mind where I don't use DD/Stage or Maze of Ith and use Yavamaya Hallow and Cavern of Souls tech instead. It's been fun, but I haven't tested it like Pun Mav so I'm not 100% confident on build. Has anyone tested some cool lands as Tech and does anyone think stupid Siege Rhino could fit the aggressive build like my friend has been suggesting to me. The direct damage and life swing are how he makes his argument for a single Rhino, but it seems painfully average to me when you could probably get a knight and win.

Thanks for reading. I really appreciate feedback. Been playing Pun Dark Mav constantly since 2013 and only know so many ppl who can help me play this archetype.

[DudeItsCorey]

Hello Maverick players,

I have not posted in a few months, however I am still actively playing Punishing Dark Maverick in 2015 and I'm still hooked. I have a million questions for the forum on the deck, however, I'll keep it small for now.

First, how have players felt about Scryb Ranger as of RECENTLY. This card hasn't caught my attention until I seen Delver, Stifle and Wasteland decks get more play since Treasure Cruise got banned.

Next I would like discuss the inclusion of SFM and Batterskull for decks. Personally on Punishing Maverick I've enjoyed 2x Jitte more than SFM, however, delver decks make SFM more appealing to me. Do you think 2x Jitte is underwhelming in a meta full of delver decks, elves and Miracles. SFM is clunky in my deck, however, using cards like Scryb Ranger may be even worse for me.

Now I would like to discuss Pyroblast in a maverick decks sideboard. This card seems attractive to me for a variety of reasons, however, it's not the kind of Haymaker sideboard card I'm used to like Choke. Currently my board has 1x choke (2x Etutors) and 2 pyroblast for general blue hate. Does Pyroblast seem like a good choice, or it's it's efficiency and power less desirable than a game-ending card.

Lastly I have an Abzan build in mind where I don't use DD/Stage or Maze of Ith and use Yavamaya Hallow and Cavern of Souls tech instead. It's been fun, but I haven't tested it like Pun Mav so I'm not 100% confident on build. Has anyone tested some cool lands as Tech and does anyone think stupid Siege Rhino could fit the aggressive build like my friend has been suggesting to me. The direct damage and life swing are how he makes his argument for a single Rhino, but it seems painfully average to me when you could probably get a knight and win.

Thanks for reading. I really appreciate feedback. Been playing Pun Dark Mav constantly since 2013 and only know so many ppl who can help me play this archetype.


I don't know anything about Punishing Maverick. However, I would include Red Elemental Blast (can't be redirected to non-blue permanents and thus fizzled) as you need some sort of answer to combo since you're not running Thalia.

Siege Rhino is too overcosted to only get swords to plowshare or sacked from Liliana. The six point life swing and that it has trample is nice, but I am a huge advocate for Sigarda for that finisher spot. As far as utility lands are concerned, I am also a huge fan of Maze of Ith. Maze synergizes very well with your knights, can give your creatures vigilance, and can also act as a quasi-removal. They have been very helpful at stalling fast paced tempo decks until I get either a Jitte or SoFi. A lot of people advocate for Cradle as well. Which is very good at helping cast equipment and equipping it on the same turn, gunning down graveyards with Scavenging Ooze, etc.

I am not a fan of Batterskull. I have run it in the past and it's great against Miracles, Burn (if it can stick) and provides many free wins. However, you will need to up your Stoneforge Mystic count if you really want it in your deck. I find that grabbing a Jitte or a Sofi and equipping it to a Knight has better results that getting a batterskull and it being stuck in my hand because the stoneforge mystic didn't stick.

[iamajellydonut]

However, I would include Red Elemental Blast (can't be redirected to non-blue permanents and thus fizzled)

You can redirect a Red Elemental Blast with Misdirection and have it target the Misdirection, which is basically the same thing as aborting a Pyroblast into the sea.

[Strassbaw]

Here is my 75 with Scryb and no SFM:


-- punishing maverick--

21 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Gaddock teeg 2
Scavenging ooze 2
Qasali pridemage 2
Scryb ranger 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 24

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Thespian stage 1
Dark depths 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 2
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Engineered plague 1
Null Rod 1
Engineered explosives 1
Grafdiggers cage 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1






I don't know anything about Punishing Maverick. However, I would include Red Elemental Blast (can't be redirected to non-blue permanents and thus fizzled) as you need some sort of answer to combo since you're not running Thalia.

Siege Rhino is too overcosted to only get swords to plowshare or sacked from Liliana. The six point life swing and that it has trample is nice, but I am a huge advocate for Sigarda for that finisher spot. As far as utility lands are concerned, I am also a huge fan of Maze of Ith. Maze synergizes very well with your knights, can give your creatures vigilance, and can also act as a quasi-removal. They have been very helpful at stalling fast paced tempo decks until I get either a Jitte or SoFi. A lot of people advocate for Cradle as well. Which is very good at helping cast equipment and equipping it on the same turn, gunning down graveyards with Scavenging Ooze, etc.

I am not a fan of Batterskull. I have run it in the past and it's great against Miracles, Burn (if it can stick) and provides many free wins. However, you will need to up your Stoneforge Mystic count if you really want it in your deck. I find that grabbing a Jitte or a Sofi and equipping it to a Knight has better results that getting a batterskull and it being stuck in my hand because the stoneforge mystic didn't stick.

I run 3 DRS and 1 Bayou, so Pyroblast is the card I'll be playing Game 2. With that being said, do you recommend this card for Maverick as a sideboard option?


I don't like SFM in my maverick decks very much. In Punishing Dark Maverick I've preferred the 2x Jitte as I didn't much love Batterskull, and not running Batterskull with SFM always feels a bit funny.

[Koby]

You can redirect a Red Elemental Blast with Misdirection and have it target the Misdirection, which is basically the same thing as aborting a Pyroblast into the sea.

Hmm, nope. You cannot redirect REB with mode "destroy target blue permanent" to a spell.

[iamajellydonut]

Hmm, nope. You cannot redirect REB with mode "destroy target blue permanent" to a spell.

I was thinking in the narrow scope of counterspells. You are correct, sah.


Anyway, I've been grinding and bumping with Collected Company for the past few days now, and the results are in... It's impossible to run enough creatures to make hitting two guaranteed. I shaved away as much as possible (no more equipment or Decays and lowered the GSZ count), but you still can't get low enough in non-creature spell count to make Collected Company always hit.

Don't get me wrong, even hitting the two weakest creatures is still amazing, but when you hit only one creature (or no creatures), its value drops too sharply to make it worthwhile. I longingly await the day when Magus of the Plowshares finally gets printed. :(

[DudeItsCorey]

I was thinking in the narrow scope of counterspells. You are correct, sah.


Anyway, I've been grinding and bumping with Collected Company for the past few days now, and the results are in... It's impossible to run enough creatures to make hitting two guaranteed. I shaved away as much as possible (no more equipment or Decays and lowered the GSZ count), but you still can't get low enough in non-creature spell count to make Collected Company always hit.

Don't get me wrong, even hitting the two weakest creatures is still amazing, but when you hit only one creature (or no creatures), its value drops too sharply to make it worthwhile. I longingly await the day when Magus of the Plowshares finally gets printed. :(

That's why I'm thinking a Bant Blade list would be the best shell. Using Brainstorm or Jace the Mind Sculpture to set up Collected Company.

[iamajellydonut]

That's why I'm thinking a Bant Blade list would be the best shell. Using Brainstorm or Jace the Mind Sculpture to set up Collected Company.

If you get to the point where you're trying to use Jace to set up insignificant combos, you're probably just better off finding another idea.

[DudeItsCorey]

If you get to the point where you're trying to use Jace to set up insignificant combos, you're probably just better off finding another idea.

Well, what I'm saying is that brainstorming with Jace is common and if you have collected company and say a TNN/Knight with a Stoneforge mystic in your hand that you put back on top, that seems pretty synergistic to me. You're going to play all 4 of those cards in your list, so why not include Collected Company?

[ironclad8690]

MOST seems like a fun shell for collected company, perhaps if we take inspiration from those kinds of lists:


4 Noble Hierarch
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Skylasher
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Sublime Archangel
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Peacekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Collected Company

2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
4 Rest in Peace
4 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Null Rod
2 Pithing Needle
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Gaddock Teeg


Skylasher is Delver protection, the rest of the creatures are pretty typical except for Rafiq and Sublime Archangel which are cool to have as finishers in an otherwise underpowered list.

[Cambriel]

What are people's thoughts on Dromoka's Command? It's cheap and pretty flexible, but none of the modes are really a knockout. Still, being able to fight a Knight vs. pretty much anything in the format not named Emrakul or Marit Lage is pretty spiffy.

Does it measure up? Is there a slot that it can take without negatively impacting everything else?

[iamajellydonut]

What are people's thoughts on Dromoka's Command?

It's fucking awful.

"Being flexible" isn't worth a damn when all of the modes are useless. Including the fight option. Why bother comboing Knight of the Reliquary with Dromoka's Command into a 360 kickflip when you can just cast a Terror effect and get it done with?

[Cambriel]

It's fucking awful.

"Being flexible" isn't worth a damn when all of the modes are useless. Including the fight option. Why bother comboing Knight of the Reliquary with Dromoka's Command into a 360 kickflip when you can just cast a Terror effect and get it done with?

Because being flexible isn't actually useless, IMO. Sure, if you need a creature dead you just Swords it. But a STP rotting in your hand won't stop an Abyss, Moat, Counterbalance, or Blood Moon from ruining your day, and while it might let you survive a Price of Progress, it'll cost your Knight to do it.

I'm not sure I like it as a main deck card, but I also don't want to underestimate the various corner cases where it solves a problem for us that our normal 60 won't. I definitely think it provides more than Collected Company to the "standard" Maverick list we have right now.

[iamajellydonut]

Because being flexible isn't actually useless, IMO. Sure, if you need a creature dead you just Swords it. But a STP rotting in your hand won't stop an Abyss, Moat, Counterbalance, or Blood Moon from ruining your day, and while it might let you survive a Price of Progress, it'll cost your Knight to do it.

I'm not sure I like it as a main deck card, but I also don't want to underestimate the various corner cases where it solves a problem for us that our normal 60 won't. I definitely think it provides more than Collected Company to the "standard" Maverick list we have right now.

If you're truly worried about versatility regarding crap like Moat, just run Maelstrom Pulse.

[Cambriel]

If you're truly worried about versatility regarding crap like Moat, just run Maelstrom Pulse.

Fair point, even if I tend to favor Vindicate over Maelstrom Pulse for the corner scenario where hitting land can support our mana denial strategy.

I guess I see Dromoka's more as an anti-Burn card that has usefulness in other matches. I can easily see the following scenarios, all of them 2-for-1s:

1. Prevent damage from Price of Progress / sacrifice an enchantment (Eidolon).
2. Prevent damage / fight Goblin Guide.
3. +1 counter on Deathrite / fight Goblin Guide after trigger.
4. Pro color from Mom / block one threat, fight another.

[Benke]

I also saw some potential in Dromoka's Command when it first was revealed, but when you break it down you'll realize that it's too narrow for the sideboard.
The first obvious use would be against burn heavy decks. Since the banning of TC, they are not that prevalent anymore. I also don't believe we need any dedicated sideboard against the traditional mono red burn. We have deathrites, ooze, SFM and thalia mainboard which all are headaches for the burn player.
Problematic enchantments (all exept humility which doesn't see play anyways) are easily dealt with using Pridemage. I would advocate that anything less than 2 QP in GWb maverick is wrong.

Regarding Collected Company - I don't see it fitting in the current Maverick build(s). I think the card has great potential (in a BANT shell without Thalia and cheap counters for example), or a completely different GW/x build. We simply just can't afford to pay 4 mana (or 5 when thalia is taxing us) for an instant without any garantuees. GSZ finds us the specific tool we need for the current situation, which is worth more than (at most) 2 random pieces. Quality>Quantity in a silver bullet type of deck.

Played in my local store yesterday ending up 3-1 (about 25ppl playing).
Goblins (2-0)
Burn (2-0)
Miracles (1-2)
UB Omnitell (2-1)

Still have a hard time dealing with miracles. The game I won I established the Safekeeper-Teeg-mom-thalia-choke lock (feels so god damn good against a deck like Miracles that usually lock you out with CB/top :smile:) and prayed he wouldn't find Councils Judgement, which he didn't.

How do you guys handle Miracles? Play conservative or try to overrun with creatures hoping he won't find terminus? I board in 2x Choke, 2x Pithing Needle, 1x Gaddok Teeg in that matchup.

[Cambriel]

How do you guys handle Miracles? Play conservative or try to overrun with creatures hoping he won't find terminus? I board in 2x Choke, 2x Pithing Needle, 1x Gaddok Teeg in that matchup.

Slam Teeg as fast as possible and try to press the advantage to get underneath them. I've also had some success with Bitterblossom since none of their removal matches up against it very well and they don't present much of a clock of their own. Watch out for angels, but that's what Teeg is for.

Choke is extremely high variance for me. I don't think it has ever won me a game that I wasn't already ahead.

[hartigan]

How do you guys handle Miracles?

My best games against Miracles have always involved Gaddock Teeg and Mother of Runes, seems obvious but it's really difficult for them to beat that.

Throw in a Thalia as well and you've got yourself a pretty hateful board state right there.

I'd say its only safe to start committing if you are 100% sure they won't be able to cast a Terminus and blow you out... eg Mother + Teeg in play, probably safe to commit say... a Knight to the board and start beating.

Sword or Fire and Ice is also really useful when you are working with just a Teeg as it helps you clock them as well as draw cards in case the worst happens you can recover with some speed.

I bring in a second Teeg because it's a sweet hoser, and my one Choke because even though it sometimes does nothing good god can that card punish. I also bring in 2x Oblivion Ring sometimes, Jace can be a pain... then again, Teeg rules.

[Cambriel]

Biggest issue with Choke vs Miracles is that it's so hard to tap them out. They do a lot at instant speed, and you're not going to catch them tapped out unless they're rushing out a Jace or a bunch of angels.

Teeg, Mom, Thalia is unquestionably the worst board state for them to beat. I think you can also shave a Wasteland in that match since they run so many basics.

[Warden]

As others are saying, Teeg is the main X-factor.

Other lesser-played-but-equally-important points (in no particular order):
1. Mom + Teeg is your go-to.
2. Don't blindly swing with Teeg if they have 2 or more lands untapped. Good lists/pilots will bring in Snapcaster/Clique/Venser to flash-block your man. #awkward. Even with Mom + Teeg on the table, you'll waste mother of runes going "pro-blue on Teeg" only to see Teeg die to a plowshare.
3. Choke doesn't win the game. I'd even argue "blue" isn't why Miracles wins. The deck needs white mana to crush us. In a perfect world, you actually disable Top/Terminus/access to Concil's Judgement and go pro-white with Light & Shadow
4. Don't make stupid errors like I have in the past where you can drop either pridemage or thalia...and don't catch their karakas sitting across from you.
5. Wasteland is best used against their Karakas. You have to make smart plays during the opening 3-5 turns about early wasteland-ing their duals, should they play any. It's great to live the Thalia-Wasteland dream, but don't shoot yourself in the foot being unable to cast stuff while they do their slow ramp.
6. Attack vs Combo with KotR: Sometimes assembling the DD/Stage package is better than attacking. This is especially true if for some lucky reason you have them on the back-foot and you're out of lethal-range. Might be a cady-corner scenario, but I feel this conflict comes up from time to time against Miracles. If you have 2 knight activations available (2x KotR or Scryb + KotR), take a moment to calculate what kills them faster/is more reliable. Again, see if Karakas is on the table. See how many Terminus and STP they've run through.
7. If you have Canonist, board her in. There are many instances where Miracles can't cast brainstorm and do something else. It also turns off Snapcaster's flashback. Worst case, you increase your threat density.
8. Perpetual threats like Planeswalkers, Equipment, or Gods make a huge difference in the attrition war. Not only do they provide constant pressure (tokens, perks, etc) that escapes almost all of Miracle's removal, they also give you the ability to sit back on threats -- avoiding you getting X-for-1'ed.
9. If you know Miracles is popular in your area, you can play a list with more Decays and Pridemages. Those 2 cards help immensely.

[Cambriel]

I also don't hate Surgical Extraction if you're looking for more to board out. It's not the best card by a long shot, but Miracles is more removal light than they appear to be. They just dig so hard they can find what they're after.

Surgical on Swords to Plowshares puts them at the absolute mercy of Teeg. It's fine vs. Terminus, but game 2 they may have a Verdict or Wrath and you really want to shut all of those down with the hobbit.

[ironclad8690]

I think my favorite approach to Miracles is the 1mpulse approach: 2 Teeg come in out of the board, 2 Libraries maindeck for CA, SoFaI and SoLaS (don't underestimate Light and Shadow in this matchup, protection from StP is huge; not to mention buffing small creatures or EOT fetched Dryad Arbors that have previously been terminused), and 2 Abrupt Decays out of SB for CB.

An argument could be made for Banishing Light as well, but I think that might be going a little overboard.

[Benke]

A lot of good tips, thanks guys!

My play area is pretty miracles dense. All the versions I've seen so far are the ponder builds, which makes my life a bit easier (no karakas, thank god).

I am not convinced that boarding in abrupt decay is always correct. From the miracle people that I've spoken to, they argue that:

1) Since a GWb deck usually have abrupt decays (main and/or board), counterbalance loses value. It is not uncommon that they board at least some of them out to ensure that abrupt decay has no target. Having decay for only snapcaster seems weak. I agree that a deck with abrupt decay is better suited game1 against miracles than a build without.
2) GSZ can (easily) sneak in a creature under CB, just increase the X to lets say 3. Again, it is not a reliable lock.

In game 2/3 the miracle player most likely board in artifact removal (disenchant or wear/tear) to deal with equipments, so banishing light/oblivion ring doesn't seem that impressive.


For my experience it's very important to keep fetchlands in play. Can be really hard to handle for the miracle player if you have a sword in play (fetch arbor EOT after a terminus, equipping with a sword and kill Jace). I also find that you need to mulligan til you more or less have the lock in hand - we can't afford to go to turn 4-5 with an active top in play.


I've changed my list now to 3 equipment main, and actually cutting abrupt decays from the main.

*edit*

I guess if you are really dedicating your board to fight miracles, Bitterblossom seems insane. Hits the table early, and if uncontested - a real bomb. I wonder if it's too narrow though.

[Cambriel]

It's not a knockout, but Bitterblossom does work against Lands as well. It'll brick wall Marit Lage, and taxes their P Fires and Mazes. For a match up that is already just terrible, it's not the worst card to have.

I've also had okay results vs. Shardless with it.

[sdematt]

The keys to this matchup are Needle, Teeg, Arbor, and protection. Safekeeper is best but mom is good in addition. Teeg locks them out so strap SoLaS to him and do not attack with him. Getting ambush vipered seems bad.

[ironclad8690]

Our boy 1mpulse is 11-2 in the SCG Invi and is currently being featured vs Reid Duke.

[1mpulse]

Our boy 1mpulse is 11-2 in the SCG Invi and is currently being featured vs Reid Duke.

Game 3 was pretty frustrating. Somehow, the third Teeg I have in the board didn't get boarded in, probably due to the time issue, and that costed me not only the match, but an invitational top 8 as well.

[hartigan]

Game 3 was pretty frustrating. Somehow, the third Teeg I have in the board didn't get boarded in, probably due to the time issue, and that costed me not only the match, but an invitational top 8 as well.

Congrats on the solid run though!

It was great to watch Maverick on camera as it feels massively underrepresented in video coverage lately.

[ironclad8690]

Game 3 was pretty frustrating. Somehow, the third Teeg I have in the board didn't get boarded in, probably due to the time issue, and that costed me not only the match, but an invitational top 8 as well.

What were your other legacy matchups besides miracles?

[DudeItsCorey]

Game 3 was pretty frustrating. Somehow, the third Teeg I have in the board didn't get boarded in, probably due to the time issue, and that costed me not only the match, but an invitational top 8 as well.

Can you show us your deck list?

[DudeItsCorey]

Congrats on the solid run though!

It was great to watch Maverick on camera as it feels massively underrepresented in video coverage lately.

Legacy video coverage has been massively underrepresented in general.

[hartigan]

Legacy video coverage has been massively underrepresented in general.

Very true, SCG's decision about the open series was a disappointing one and I'm still pretty confused by it.

[iamajellydonut]

It was great to watch Maverick on camera as it feels massively underrepresented in video coverage lately.

To be fair, it's not exactly like Maverick is a DTB.


Very true, SCG's decision about the open series was a disappointing one and I'm still pretty confused by it.

I mean, honestly, how fucking hard would it be to swap to Legacy coverage once the Standard top 8 is finished?

[hartigan]

To be fair, it's not exactly like Maverick is a DTB.

True, but there are still people playing it and it's not completely off the map, but yes it's lost a lot of it's former glory. I almost exclusively stream Legacy Maverick and I get a lot of messages in chat along the lines of "people still play Maverick?" or "why are you playing Maverick?", the second of the two being interesting as the deck usually performs quite well which would be why I am playing it.


I mean, honestly, how fucking hard would it be to swap to Legacy coverage once the Standard top 8 is finished?

Probably not hard, but I couldn't ever see them doing that. I am more confused because the announcement that they were cutting back on Legacy coverage came after Grand Prix NJ which was a highly anticipated and EXTREMELY viewed Grand Prix that showcased how popular the format was. SCG opens had always been a great force for Legacy deck development and it was always interesting to see innovations people were making and how the games played out, now all I can get is deck lists from the IQ's that happen in the background of these mini Standard GPs, and you really have to read into the lists or find the people who made them posting on forums to learn about their decisions or tech. All in all the change was a major bummer for me.

[1mpulse]

What were your other legacy matchups besides miracles?

Round 4: BUG Delver (Ross Ross Merriam) 0-2
Round 5: Elves 2-0
Round 6: Storm 2-0
Round 7: Infect 2-0

Round 13: Sneak and Show 2-1
Round 14: Miracles (Reid Duke) 1-2
Round 15: Infect (Todd Anderson) 0-2
Round 16: ID


Can you show us your deck list?

I am playing the same list I have for quite awhile now.

[btm10]

True, but there are still people playing it and it's not completely off the map, but yes it's lost a lot of it's former glory. I almost exclusively stream Legacy Maverick and I get a lot of messages in chat along the lines of "people still play Maverick?" or "why are you playing Maverick?", the second of the two being interesting as the deck usually performs quite well which would be why I am playing it.


I've run into a lot of GWb creature decks with GSZ both in person and online in the past month or so. At least two of these were Legacy ports of the Modern Junk deck, so I'm not sure if it's technically "Maverick", but I do think the deck is fairly well positioned now with BUG Delver being popular, successful, a favorable matchup for you, and holding fast combo down. As someone who plays mostly BUG and Grixis, I really hate playing against Maverick.

[Warden]

Because I haven't played competitive legacy in a while, how (if at all) are players with recent success adjusting play to blue in the meta? Specifically, is Dig Through Time being approached at in the same manner as the now-banned Treasure Cruise? Are you finding stifle is something to play around? There's a lot of RUG, BUG, UWR, Grixis, and Omnitell running these cards.

[DudeItsCorey]

Because I haven't played competitive legacy in a while, how (if at all) are players with recent success adjusting play to blue in the meta? Specifically, is Dig Through Time being approached at in the same manner as the now-banned Treasure Cruise? Are you finding stifle is something to play around? There's a lot of RUG, BUG, UWR, Grixis, and Omnitell running these cards.

Choke for all matchups, except if the BUG/Grixis is more heavy black with like creep tar pit. With all Delver Match-ups Maze of Ith has worked very well for me as a quasi-removal for their fliers that I have to wait to shoot down with Jitte, SoFi, Swords to Plowshare, Abrupt Decay. Scouting always helps, but yes you should try to play around stifle. I only really see it in RUG and sometimes in various BUG Delver decks. I feel like our deck can stumble pretty hard on mana and avoiding the stifle/wasteland lock is helpful, which is why I play 3 basics (along with avoiding being price or progressed)

RUG - Scavenging Ooze (the all star), fetch SoFi over Jitte, Toxic Deluge (If you're able to wipe the board and then drop a Knight, you've pretty much have won the game).
BUG/Grixis - Scavenging Ooze (against Goyf), Karakas (for Tasigur), Sigarda (they just can't beat her), Toxic Deluge, 2x Sylvan Library really helps with the super grindy match-ups
UWR - Qasali, Toxic Deluge, Sigarda (Jace can't deal), fetch SoFi over Jitte, Abrupt Decay, Sylvan Library
Omnitell - Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, Thoughtseize

[Cambriel]

You pretty much have to play around Dig as though it were Brainstorm. Just acknowledge that they're going to be more consistent than you and slam the right bears.

I'm still not seeing a lot of Stifle locally, but Wasteland is back in a big way. There's a constant tension for us between playing basics, and black sources for Abrupt Decay. I tend to err on the side of basics, and keep a 4/2 split of Swords to Plowshares and Decays in the main. Yeah, it's light on black sources, but Deathrite picks up a lot of slack.

[Warden]

If I go to SCG: Cuse (see - Easter), I'm looking at bringing a more vanilla list with...

3 Thoughtseize
1 Teeg #2
2 Canonist......elves, omni, decks reliant upon blue cantrips
6 "removal"....[2 Decay + 2 Toxic + 2 Zealous] or something similar involving PTE

3 Flex.....[2 Containment Priest + Krosan Grip] or [3 Choke] or something similar involving WLL / Banishing Light

Part of me wants to just go NO in the main because random progenitus/ruric thar is a thing.

@DudeitsCorey & @Cambriel - thanks a ton that helps refresh me a bunch

[Cambriel]

I would feel pretty uncomfortable without Decay in the main these days. I usually shave a Sylvan Library and a Pridemage for them, and move at least the Library to the board. There are just too many times where I *need* to kill a permanent (SFM, Delver, Counterbalance, Chalice) and don't have time to worry about if they can Dig for Force + blue card.

They occasionally come out game 2 in exchange for more effective removal (they're an easy swap for ZP, for example), but I never really regret seeing them game 1. There's almost always a target. Even Burn plays Eidolons.

[Benke]

Played at my LGS and went 3-1 once again (Would be nice with 4-0 for a change :smile:)

R1 Death and Taxes. (2-1)
R2 Goblins (2-0)
R3 Infect (2-0)
R4 Elves (1-2)

Elves is a tough matchup. In G1 I thought I had stabilized with a Jitte, but to my surprice he played (3) Abrupt Decays in main and I lost. I hope this won’t become a standard build; it’s hard enough as it is :)

I have shaved Abrupt Decay from the deck completely. In the main I’m thinking of replacing SoLaS with either: Maze of Ith, Sylvan Safekeeper, Mirrian Crusader, SoFaF or Courser of Kruphix. Can’t really decide what.
I am fairly happy with the sideboard. Could see an Oblivion Ring replace something.

Played the following list:

CREATURES (25)
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Stoneforge Mystic

ENCHANTMENTS (2)
2 Sylvan Library

SORCERIES (4)
4 Green Sun’s Zenith

INSTANTS (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares

ARTIFACTS (3)
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

LANDS (22)
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 Gaea’s Cradle
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
1 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle

[anakyn]

Quick question for the Maverick players around: why don't you play Batterskull?

[iamajellydonut]

Quick question for the Maverick players around: why don't you play Batterskull?

Searching up Batterskull is only a powerplay if you can recoup after you force them to kill your Stoneforge Mystic. Common examples of "recouping" are just fukken grinding the game and casting Batterskull or using Brainstorm to shuffle it away. Unfortunately, in Maverick, those aren't really options, and it usually just ends up being a 5cc sandbag that could have been a Jitte instead.

[DudeItsCorey]

Quick question for the Maverick players around: why don't you play Batterskull?

A couple of reasons. First is that our stoneforge mystic count is too low. nothing worse than playing a stoneforge mystic, it gets removed and you have a batterskull stuck in your hand. Second, we're a tool box deck and would rather rely on equipping Thalia, Knight, Scooze, etc. with a sword or jitte, it's just better for our deck. Batterskull is a control card and we're midrange beatdown toolbox deck.

Our main plan of attacked is to use Thalia & Wasteland to get ahead and use Green Sun Zenith to either find an answer, ramp or get a threat. Stoneforge is there for the soul purpose of getting a piece of equipment to help push our creatures over the top, whether it be Jitte to mow down D&T or Sword and Fire and Ice to race a True-Name Nemesis.

[Cambriel]

I have shaved Abrupt Decay from the deck completely. In the main I’m thinking of replacing SoLaS with either: Maze of Ith, Sylvan Safekeeper, Mirrian Crusader, SoFaF or Courser of Kruphix. Can’t really decide what.
I am fairly happy with the sideboard. Could see an Oblivion Ring replace something.


All of those options are things that I keep handy and tweak from tournament to tournament. I'm generally unhappy not having Decay, almost always fine with Maze of Ith, and rarely if ever play Safekeeper, Crusader, or Courser (though he's excellent in fair matches).

My back bench of cards for the main and sideboard runs about 40 deep at this point. Everything from the things you listed to Surgical Extraction, Choke, Armageddon, and Bitterblossom. It really depends what you see in the room.

[Warden]

All of those options are things that I keep handy and tweak from tournament to tournament. I'm generally unhappy not having Decay, almost always fine with Maze of Ith, and rarely if ever play Safekeeper, Crusader, or Courser (though he's excellent in fair matches).

My back bench of cards for the main and sideboard runs about 40 deep at this point. Everything from the things you listed to Surgical Extraction, Choke, Armageddon, and Bitterblossom. It really depends what you see in the room.

It is strangely satisfying to read somebody clearly articulate my identical pre-even thought-process. Questions to mull over: a few recent European lists have Canonist in the main. I thought this was something to discuss. I like her a lot as a SB choice. I'm not sure how well she fits into the 'Murican meta. She certainly slows down delver, stoneblade, Elves, storm, Omni, and to some degree Miracles. However she's a straight up hatebear that paints a big target face. Bigger issue is needing to shave down some usual MD slots to accommodate her. I'm not sure if I like this approach or not. Certainly something to bring to the conversation. 3x staple cards + 1x Revoker/Safekeepr/Surgical:

Proof:
// NAME : Maverick
// CREATOR : Guilio Aliberti
// FORMAT : Legacy
1 [R] Bayou
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [KTK] Flooded Strand
1 [UNH] Forest
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [R] Scrubland
1 [KTK] Wooded Foothills
2 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
3 [R] Savannah
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [KTK] Windswept Heath

1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
1 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
1 [AVR] Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 [C14] Sylvan Safekeeper
2 [M12] Birds of Paradise
2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [CMD] Mother of Runes
3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
3 [CNS] Swords to Plowshares
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 1 [CNS] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [RTR] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [C13] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [C14] Containment Priest
SB: 2 [ARB] Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap

[Cambriel]

Some interesting things going on there, but I can't really parse them with just a list. I wonder if there is any video of his matches. What kind of event did this originate from, and where did he place?

One thing that jumps out at me very quickly is how few fetchlands he's running. 6 is quite low, though I suppose the extra Horizon Canopy does let him get another land into his graveyard with some regularity. There are some other strange one-ofs as well, like Phyrexian Revoker, that seem like ideas stolen out of Death & Taxes.

I could see an argument for 3x of some staples in order to squeeze in a given hatebear for a specific meta, but that list appears to take the concept too far. ALL of the staples are 3x, and things like Revoker and Canonist cannot be dug out of the deck reliably via Green Sun. I assume the choice of Birds over Hierarch is a result of the lower fetch count making black sources a higher priority, but that also cuts off Green Sun -> Hierarch for surprise exalted triggers.

If I were going to try to jam Canonist into the main, it would have to come at the expense of a non-green target. That means Thalia without affecting the curve, and I could see a reasonable justification for a 3/1 split if there is room for Sylvan Library. I don't think it is right for an unknown meta, but if you're going up against Elves, Elves, Belcher, Elves, Storm, then Canonist is probably going to do a lot more work.

[DudeItsCorey]

I think the reason for main board canonist is because Europeans love themselves some combo. Especially Storm. 'Merica is all about the Delver.

[Warden]

^^Magic Bazaar Open in France. 70 Players:http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9446&d=254152&f=LE

@Cambriel: I'm on the same page with ya. Giving this list some thought, I'd almost say go deeper into the hatebear concept like Doug Azzano's list here:http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8991&d=251250&f=LE

[Fatal]

Surgical Extracton MD ? Can you explain ?

[Nik842]

Hey.
I played last night at a LGS. They just started doing legacy tournaments, and they allow unlimited proxies to get people interested. Most of SB was proxies, and I proxied about 9 of my MB.

It's been a long time since I played Maverick in a tournament environment. I didn't win anything, but it was great to play test against a few different decks, and see how it works. All-in-all I had lots of fun, met some nice people, and will probably be going back at least 1-2 times a month.

This is the list I played. This is not going to be a great report, I wrote down a few things last night after I got home, but I should have taken notes during the tournament, which is something I'll have do a better job at next time.
(Note *= proxied)


Land (24)
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
2x Bayou* (I think I may replace it with 2 Overgrown Tombs, just for price reasons)
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Thespian's Stage
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath

Instant (6)
2x Abrupt Decay*
4x Swords to Plowshares

Creature (22)
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull*
1x Sword of Fire and Ice*
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library

Sideboard (15)
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Choke
2x Ethersworn Canonist*
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Gut Shot
2x Krosan Grip
2x Serenity*
2x Surgical Extraction*

Match 1: Elves (0-2)
Game 1: I should have played 2nd turn Gaddock Teeg, but played stupidly and never did. He ramped up pretty fast, and got out Craterhoof Behemoth. I let it him twice, to see what else he'd bring in, then scooped. I just couldn't get much of a board state.
Game 2: Boarded in 2x Ethersworn Canonist, 2x Surgical Extraction, boarded out 2x Qasali Pridemage, I think DRS also.
Turn 2 I played Ethersworn Canonist. it bought me a few turns. He eventually go a Craterhoof Behemoth on the field, I can't remember how but I think I was able to keep it at bay, but then he played another Craterhoof Behemoth, and I was dead.


Match 2 MUD/Metalworker: (1-1-1)
I had planned to face this deck, so I kind of knew what to look for.

Game 1: He locked the board down pretty quickly, Chalice of the Void for 1, Trinishphere, and Lodestone Golem. I couldn't draw the mana that I needed to be able to play anything. He got the win with Lodestone (I think). I need to take notes during the games, or right after them next time.


Game 2: I boarded in Serenity, Krosan Grip, and I think Surgcial extraction. Took out MoMs, Scavenging Ooze, and I'm not sure what else.

His first 2 land drops were both Wasteland, my firs two were Savannah & Wasteland, in the order. I was worried about him blowing my Savannah, but he ended up using his Wastelands as mana.

He seemed to draw more lands than anything else.
This time I was able to respond to his drops. I abrupt decayed both of his trinishpheres, and StP one of his Lodestones.
Some good Wastland draws by me helped keep his land count low.
I was able to get a SFM on the field, and got batterskull. Dropped it next turn, and started to swing in for some damage.
He drew another lodestone, so I then SFM'ed & equipped my SoFaI to the germ token.
Drew a KotR, I think it had +2/+2. I switched the sword over to it, and swung in for the game after a few turns.

Game 3: I didn't change the deck.
I was drawing a lot better this game (ie getting things faster). I wish I could have gotten some wastelands though. He was able to get the mana to get Blightsteel Colossus into the field.
I had a KotR on the field, one in hand. A Savannah, Dryad Arbor, Forest, Horizon Canopy, Gaea's Cradle on the field.

The next part of my memory isn't 100% accurate, but the end part is correct.
I drew and had Dark Depths, Scryb Ranger in hand. Maybe had a GSZ in hand also.

He swung with Blightsteel Colossus. I ended up taking 7 infect counters blocking with KotR.

I played the DD, brought in the 2nd KotR, GSZ for another KotR (woo gaea's cradle), tapped the one on field to sac my forest and bring in Thespian Stage, targeting DD. Woooo 20/20.

****So I'm not 100% sure, but I assumed that my Marit Lage token could not be destroyed even by the infect tokens, and I had no idea that infect tokens were like wilt counters on creatures.****

***Also I need to figure out how to deal with indestructible cards)***

Next turn, I blocked with 20/20 bringing it down to 9/9.
Next turn I attack with 9/9.
His next turn he goes to attack, I flash in Scryb Ranger, bringing Savannah back into my hand, and untapping Marit Lage and block with it and Scryb Ranger. +1 infect counter to me. I think somehow my 2nd KotR was killed.

**Sorry, I can't remember exactly where in my "notes" to add this, but Rounds were called, and my next turn was turn #4, and if he couldn't win by his next turn we'd draw.**

I drew a wasteland, played it. I saced it, and targeted my Gaea's Cradle, bringing my KotR up to 8 +1/+1 counters.
Next turn all he can do is swing with Blightsteel Colossus, I block and only take 1 infect counter, and we then ended in a draw.

My next turn I got a bye, and ended with 1-2-1, getting no prize, but still had fun.
Sorry if my report was all over, or missing a lot of info, or just not coherent enough. Next time will be better.

[LanciatoreDiBanane]

Some interesting things going on there, but I can't really parse them with just a list. I wonder if there is any video of his matches. What kind of event did this originate from, and where did he place?

Hi there, that is my list :)
I wanted to try few things in preparation of a bigger tournament. In particular, I wanted to see if cards usually played in the sideboard are maindeckable. That is why I included canonists and surgical in the main. I usually play aether vial maverick and I wanted to try also GSZ. As for the tournament, there were really strong players but also others that are not used to the format. No videos.




One thing that jumps out at me very quickly is how few fetchlands he's running. 6 is quite low, though I suppose the extra Horizon Canopy does let him get another land into his graveyard with some regularity.

I think that running the least possible number of fetchs is the way to go. This is because playing against stifle becomes easier and not having fetchs in you hand do not put you in the position of playing around stifle when the opponent has no stifles in the deck. Also playing fetchs to feed your (and opponent's) shamans has no sinergy with knights. However, GSZ lists are weaker against blood moon effects and in this case fetchs are good.
With 6 fetchs + 3 shamans + 2 birds + 2 black lands I have 13 black mana sources for just 2 black cards that is not a low count.



There are some other strange one-ofs as well, like Phyrexian Revoker, that seem like ideas stolen out of Death & Taxes.


I recognize that Revoker is an error in this list. I usually play aether vial maverick where having a pair of revokers is often good. Here, it is not and I would replace it for an extra multiland. In fact, the biggest problem that I had in the tournament was mulligans. I took an avarage of 2 mulligans for match that is quite bad (most of them because I had issues with the starting mana).

Also sigarda is questionable.



I could see an argument for 3x of some staples in order to squeeze in a given hatebear for a specific meta, but that list appears to take the concept too far. ALL of the staples are 3x, and things like Revoker and Canonist cannot be dug out of the deck reliably via Green Sun.


I actually think that standard GSZ maverick has a weak game against combo decks because it relies too much on searching hate with GSZ. Without mana dork this is a turn 3 play were you are likely already death against ANT. Against Omnitell this is a turn 4 play since you cannot activate qasali which is not good either. Also Elves is a turn 2/3 combo. This means that to fight combos GSZ maverick has to start with manadork + GSZ or a turn 2 hate card in your hand. Canonists and thalia both improve your chances of stealing the first game which is very import when playing against combo. What is more interesting is that accordingly with my test canonists are maindeckable. Against non combo decks they are a weaker version of Thalia but almost always they are annoying for your opponents. In addition, canonist do not hurt GSZ and decays.



I assume the choice of Birds over Hierarch is a result of the lower fetch count making black sources a higher priority, but that also cuts off Green Sun -> Hierarch for surprise exalted triggers.


In every deck with 2 swords of X and Y I would play birds over hierarch. In addition, flying means that they become good blockers when you have mom (see 20/20 tokens, delvers, equipped avengers, etc). They also fix your mana better than hiercarchs. I dont think that GSZ for hierarch is a good play, however you have the same effect paying one more mana. Without birds I would play a green sword instead of solas to tramp green creatures.



If I were going to try to jam Canonist into the main, it would have to come at the expense of a non-green target. That means Thalia without affecting the curve, and I could see a reasonable justification for a 3/1 split if there is room for Sylvan Library. I don't think it is right for an unknown meta, but if you're going up against Elves, Elves, Belcher, Elves, Storm, then Canonist is probably going to do a lot more work.

Canonists are usually played in punishing maverick because you cannot use Thalia. I wanted to try how good they are in the main and I think that they have passed the test. The surgical is probably wrong but I did not draw that in the whole tournament. Against delver it helps at screwing their mana if you have also a wasteland, against midmiracles getting swords is good but overall it is a high variance card only good in early game.

Despite I did top 8, I did not like this and I would not play GSZ anymore. Aether vial seems too much better to me because it is faster, it reduces the number of mulligans AND the number of lands you need to play, it helps a lot against counters, it bypass chalices blood moon and it encorages you to play more hate bears that is the core of this deck.

[blackdiamonds]

I top16 the scg iq yesterday I'll post a report later


sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82343

[Cambriel]

I think that running the least possible number of fetchs is the way to go. This is because playing against stifle becomes easier and not having fetchs in you hand do not put you in the position of playing around stifle when the opponent has no stifles in the deck. Also playing fetchs to feed your (and opponent's) shamans has no sinergy with knights. However, GSZ lists are weaker against blood moon effects and in this case fetchs are good.
With 6 fetchs + 3 shamans + 2 birds + 2 black lands I have 13 black mana sources for just 2 black cards that is not a low count.

I actually think that standard GSZ maverick has a weak game against combo decks because it relies too much on searching hate with GSZ. Without mana dork this is a turn 3 play were you are likely already death against ANT. Against Omnitell this is a turn 4 play since you cannot activate qasali which is not good either. Also Elves is a turn 2/3 combo. This means that to fight combos GSZ maverick has to start with manadork + GSZ or a turn 2 hate card in your hand. Canonists and thalia both improve your chances of stealing the first game which is very import when playing against combo. What is more interesting is that accordingly with my test canonists are maindeckable. Against non combo decks they are a weaker version of Thalia but almost always they are annoying for your opponents. In addition, canonist do not hurt GSZ and decays.

In every deck with 2 swords of X and Y I would play birds over hierarch. In addition, flying means that they become good blockers when you have mom (see 20/20 tokens, delvers, equipped avengers, etc). They also fix your mana better than hiercarchs. I dont think that GSZ for hierarch is a good play, however you have the same effect paying one more mana. Without birds I would play a green sword instead of solas to tramp green creatures.

Canonists are usually played in punishing maverick because you cannot use Thalia. I wanted to try how good they are in the main and I think that they have passed the test. The surgical is probably wrong but I did not draw that in the whole tournament. Against delver it helps at screwing their mana if you have also a wasteland, against midmiracles getting swords is good but overall it is a high variance card only good in early game.

These are all reasonable decisions in the context you describe. I personally have never cared for Aether Vial over GSZ in Maverick. It feels too much like Green & Taxes at that point, and the mono-white version just feels stronger. For me, the GSZ toolbox is what makes Maverick its own thing. That being said, Aether Vial is a viable strategy.

I generally disagree about running fewer fetches, but Stifle also hasn't had a resurgence in my local meta yet. It's also a card where they'll either have it or they don't, and there's not much you can do. I'm usually on 8 fetches, 4 duals, 3 basics, and don't have too many issues. You definitely do a better job with black sources thanks to Birds, and running two Swords is a big benefit. I still like the surprise Exalted trigger, and have won plenty of games as a result of digging up a Hierarch that changes all the combat math.

Very happy to hear that Canonist is viable main deck. I'd still prefer Thalia 9 times out of 10, so I might try 1 Canonist / 4 Thalia as a 5th way of slowing down unfair decks. If nothing else, it opens a sideboard slot.

[blackdiamonds]

I posted my report in the report section
Maverick Jesus is here

[Cambriel]

Nice report.

I'm surprised to see you say that D&T is a bad matchup. I don't really think that's the case, especially since we're on largely the same mana denial plan. It's very much 50/50 in my experience.

[Luthiereisfun]

I think DnT is pretty close. It usually seems to be who can get out of the gates fastest and set the pace of the game. I think post board it might be better for us since we get to being zealous persecution and toxic deluge.

So I have been trying colleced company and my opinipn as of now is that it's not as bad in maverick as some people think and it's of course not some new staple of the deck or new GSZ anything rediculous like that.

Also want to reiterate that this is just my opinion based off my experience playing the card. I am always open to seeing different perspectives.

Here's my list of pros and cons of collected company.

Pros: Against fair decks a resolved CC can push us over the top and the board presence can be a big enough swing that you win the game. I think the worst thing Ive gotten from it was a deathrite shaman and scryb ranger. It's just a very explosive high impact card imo. It also has been good recovering from board wipes.

Cons: Its 4 mana. Hitting 4 mana in this deck is not a problem but its clunky enough that I would only want to run probably 1 to 2 max in the 75. 4 mana is also another nonbo with gaddock teeg. The other issue with the card is variance. All my lists Ive ran with it had 25-26 targets and Ive never totally whiffed with it. Maybe Ive just been getting lucky.

Overall I think if you're trying to make the most tuned lean list you probably don't want to be adding a card that can be clunky and has some variance but I think it's totally playable if you're looking for something powerful ans fun don't be afraid to give it a try.

[iamajellydonut]

All my lists Ive ran with it had 25-26 targets and Ive never totally whiffed with it. Maybe Ive just been getting lucky.

It's generally agreed upon that 25-26 is what you want to be at for maximum safety. What'd you shave though to fit that many creatures, and how did you find that many creatures that don't suck? Those two generally seem to be my biggest problems. Pure hatebears are no substitution for actual hate, and after 23 creatures you sort of run out of things that aren't just filler.

Anyway, DnT is definitely a fair matchup. If anything, I prefer us because of the reasons you stated. Junk and Death&Taxes can easily lock each other out of the game, but nothing says "trump card" like even the crappiest sweeper.

[Luthiereisfun]

I upped the creature count by putting in the 3rd stoneforgemystic, and testing out some of the creatures that see fringe play in maverick but have been lists that did well like courser of kruphix and anafenza. I think if you wanted to, you could even tthrow in dark confidant to get the numbers right.

[iamajellydonut]

Am I just terrible at this deck?

Basically.

But no, seriously, 99% of beating out Death and Taxes is target selection. Mind posting your list?

[Warden]

Haven't played Legacy since the GP in November. I finished 24th overall (not too bad). Was X-1-1 into the last round (ranked 11th) where I was paired up against David Melendez (ranked 10th) for a literal "play-and-in" situation. I knew he was on UWx with Terminus and he absolutely destroyed me both games, despite literally playing so sloppy. I had to call the judge on him twice for not resolving all effects on his cards (clique and ponder to be precise). Bryant was watching game 2 where he told "David had you so hard the whole game. There's nothing you could have done." That actually made me feel better because I cannot emphasize how lopsided things felt. At least I didn't punt/misplay. I'd rather lose due to "he has you" rather than "well you blew it"

My list (similar to Jesse Adam's)

Dark Maverick // Chris Scagnelli / 24th Place / SCG:Cuse / 61 cards

2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Courser of Kruphix ----> picked him up and he was dope
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sylvan Library
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands (23)
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas

Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
2 Choke
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize

Nevertheless, I'm proud of x-2-1. My matches real quick...
R1: W. Tezz Control (2-0) --- Thalia + Wasteland + QPM ruined him
R2: W. Sneak/Show (2-0) --- Managed to draw Knight right before he cast SnT both games. He was pissed
R3. W. Elves (2-0) --- I actually win G1 off Wasteland + Thalia. G2 Toxic Deluge seals it while two 8/8 knights and a Kruphix are left on table
R4. L. Miracles (0-2) --- Drew also made top 8. Completely killed me: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82328
R5. D. Junk Blade (1-1) --- Grindy. He blew me out G1. I rally back G2. Kill him before time is called. No G3 played.
R6. W. American Delver (2-1) --- He blows me out G1. I rally G2. I put on a clinic G3.
R7. L. American Stoneforge/Miracles --- Eventual winner of the event. Destroyed me both games with this: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82342

Every SB card was brought in across the entire event. Containment Priest was never seen during the Sneak/Show but WAS seen during Elves G2 (helping ensure the win because he couldn't NO into anything beneficial). Canonist remains the best bear. Thoughtseize was the weakest SB -- but that depends upon your bracket. If I ran through the event again (facing the same things), I'd go +1 Canonist, +2 anti-miracles stuff. Props to Jesse for recommending Choke. Choke was "slightly above average" but when it lands, as Jesse and I joked throughout the day, you stomp the opponent in the balls.

Biggest surprise was Courser. For 3 mana, he's pretty insane. When he's out + active KotR, you're just so far ahead. If the meta continues to push Delver aggro stuff, I'll gladly keep him in the list. Thrun was the biggest flop. On paper he was built to beat Miracles. I watched him get Terminus'ed or Verdict'ed (with no mana open). He DID save me from a Monetary Swiftspear and turn the tide against American Delver....but this could have been someone else. Not sure if that should be SFM #3, because I actually wanted more of her fairly often.

[Seraphix]

Basically.

But no, seriously, 99% of beating out Death and Taxes is target selection. Mind posting your list?

Totally agree and probably the cause of a lot of my losses. They have a lot of potentially problematic stuff and you only have so much removal so selection is at a premium.

If I had to play Maverick right now I would play Punishing Maverick. I know its "worse" than Junk but I like playing it more and have done better with it overall.



...
1 Sylvan Library
...


Warden playing only 1 Library? The sky is falling :eek:

[Cambriel]

Zealous Persecution annihilates D&T. For game 2, just side out Thalia and bring in extra removal. Don't worry about dropping your creature count. They can't compete with what you can put on the board. The biggest threat in their deck is Serra Avenger because of flying, but you can generally handle it if you ration your removal properly.

Kill Vial whenever you see it. Equipment is manageable by keeping the board clear, but Vial will gut you if you're not careful.

[Warden]

Zealous Persecution annihilates D&T. For game 2, just side out Thalia and bring in extra removal. Don't worry about dropping your creature count. They can't compete with what you can put on the board. The biggest threat in their deck is Serra Avenger because of flying, but you can generally handle it if you ration your removal properly.

Kill Vial whenever you see it. Equipment is manageable by keeping the board clear, but Vial will gut you if you're not careful.

Agreed in full. I bring in 4 sweepers for DnT and Elves on top of STP/Decay/PTE. Yes, they out-swarm you. But you also wipe the table and laugh as they get X-for-1'ed.

[iamajellydonut]

Kill Vial whenever you see it ... but Vial will gut you if you're not careful.

This is... not exactly the truth. And it goes back to a lot of the match-up being decided by difficult target selection. Vial isn't inherently dangerous. Neither is Umezawa's Jitte. But if they have a Vial set at two and an Umezawa's Jitte on the board and a Thalia in hand, it becomes pretty clear pretty quick which of the two supports is the most relevant. You're entire goal is to go one-for-one and endure until such a point when you can card selection all over their face. Killing the Vial, especially when your methods of getting rid of it, doesn't really help to that end even in the slightest. Are there times when Vial is the Big Bad? Sure. But it's not always. Not by far.

[TMagpie]

...I have yet to win a single game against D&T with Junk Maverick. Am I just terrible at this deck? I probably am which is why I don't play it much anymore.

Two ways to beat DnT

When I was pure GW simply have 6 basics and targeting their ports with my wastelands killed them as they targeted my Iths, Tower of the Magistrates and Karakas with their own wastelands. Soon it was their 2-3 lands vs my 2-3 lands + mana dorks. Except while they dropped 2/1's I dropped Knights, Oozes, and Sigarda. 4 Pridemages in the 75 pluse Light and Shadow and they slowly ran out of non-creature permanents and it becomes a roflstomp.

When you add black you lose the basics but gain aoe/removal. Strategy remains the same. Kill all equipment and ports, the rest of their deck are just smaller versions of yours. You'll win each time.

I've gone to 4 SCG Opens and faced DnT 8 times losing only once. My record gets better if I include weekly events.

For the most part, what really matters the most is killing ports with wastelands, and leveraging their Revokers. If they turn off moms--then be overly aggressive with them since they can't do protection tricks and their guys are small. If they don't turn off moms, Knight => Stage/Depths with mom protection instantly kills them.

If you're abzan, then you can snipe their moms/revokers with persecutions and do either of those strats at will.
If you're Selesnya, then you have a high basics count and you just stall until you get to 3-5 basics in play and just out spell them.

[Cambriel]

Uhh...what? Thalia eats all our smaller men in combat, Revoker shuts off our Equips/utility, Flickerwisp is another 3 power flier that can knock out equips/save their men from removal, and Mother+Anything or Mirran Crusader invalidates our board.

I can flip all of those around and say the same thing about their deck. We play Thalia too, and she blocks Crusader just fine. You're not going to swing into a Thalia without Mom protecting you anyway. The other interactions you cite require Aether Vial to be very powerful, and it's absolutely essential that you keep Vial offline.

For a mono color deck, Death and Taxes actually has a significant issue with land screw. Despite all the basic lands they are heavily reliant on non-basics for utility that we can easily disrupt. In game 1, be aggressive with Wasteland on Ports and Karakas. Landing a Knight is usually going to do the trick. I'm also a big fan of Maze of Ith in the D&T match up. They have ways of neutralizing it, but it either ties up their mana every turn or just bricks their attacker, and Mom can't do anything to prevent it.

I've also had reasonable success with Life from the Loam, but be careful of Rest in Peace. They'll sometimes bring that in to shut off Deathrites and Knight activations.

[DudeItsCorey]

I've only really lost to D&T is when they have an equipped Mirran Crusader. There are also scenarios where they get free wins with Vial, Wasteland, Port. Game 2/3 I take out 4x Thalia and 1x Gaddock Teeg and put in 1x Sword of Light and Shadow, 2x Toxic Deluge, 1x Bitterblossom and 1x Scavenging Ooze. Light and Shadow works great with re-occuring Qasali Pridemage gunning down their vials and equipment. It also helps push Knight and our other creatures through. Toxic Deluge is my board sweeper over zealous . I just like it because you usually have bigger creatures and problematic creatures like Mirran Crusader/Serra Avenger (and other creatures in other decks like Nimble Mongoose) have more than 1 toughness. Bitterblossom is really in my board for Miracles. However, I need something to replace Thalia/Teeg and it actually works surprisingly well. Helps keep their flyers at bay, holds equipment well and can trade with a lot of their creatures. Scavenging Ooze again is there to replace a Thalia/Teeg and can do well if they leave the graveyards alone.

I also am a part of the Sigarda camp. She is great in this matchup. I also run Maze of Ith which helps out with Mirran Crusader, Serra Avenger, etc. Keep swords for Unactive Mother of Runes, Containment Priest (post board) and Mirran Crusader. Keep Wasteland for their Ports.

[Cambriel]

I've never actually gotten a Sigarda into play when it mattered. I should really go back and give her another shot. I was unsatisfied with Batterskull as a late game threat, but Sigarda might do the trick.

[TMagpie]

I've never actually gotten a Sigarda into play when it mattered. I should really go back and give her another shot. I was unsatisfied with Batterskull as a late game threat, but Sigarda might do the trick.

Nothing feels better than when the opponent realizes you can equip the batterskull to the Sigarda.

[Cambriel]

Nothing feels better than when the opponent realizes you can equip the batterskull to the Sigarda.

Oh, I'm sure that's a glorious moment. Once I can track down a foil Sigarda I'll give her another shot. I haven't bothered to keep her in a list in quite a while.

[Warden]

Given what I keep losing to in events (UWx control-ish things), what am I doing wrong? I got ROFLstompped by the #1 and #3 finishers at SCG:Cuse and having the matchups roll around in my mind for a few days on replay, I can't decipher why I'm losing so badly. Part of me says to play revoker/needle/grip/armageddon > choke. Not sure if that's the correct mentality. Choke was a strong pick in the SB (and will be moving forward).

Both these UWx decks needed top to setup the deck. However, melendez shifts to Jace and SFM stuff after sucking you in with terminus/verdict/stp/counters. The miracles matchup was 50-50 my deck drawing fetches for days + him X-for-1'ing me. I almost want to say the Miracles player beat me down with less reliance on top than Melendez's deck. Needle sucks if you can't land it. Revoker falls victim to removal but could possibly bide time. Thrun get terminus'ed against both.

[Megadeus]

Null Rod? Stops top plus his Stoneforge Shenanigans (of course if you are on the SFM plan it gets awkward too though). Alternatively is strong against MUD/Storm as well which I assume Storm at least is a 50/50 MU.

[TMagpie]

Given what I keep losing to in events (UWx control-ish things), what am I doing wrong? I got ROFLstompped by the #1 and #3 finishers at SCG:Cuse and having the matchups roll around in my mind for a few days on replay, I can't decipher why I'm losing so badly. Part of me says to play revoker/needle/grip/armageddon > choke. Not sure if that's the correct mentality. Choke was a strong pick in the SB (and will be moving forward).

Both these UWx decks needed top to setup the deck. However, melendez shifts to Jace and SFM stuff after sucking you in with terminus/verdict/stp/counters. The miracles matchup was 50-50 my deck drawing fetches for days + him X-for-1'ing me. I almost want to say the Miracles player beat me down with less reliance on top than Melendez's deck. Needle sucks if you can't land it. Revoker falls victim to removal but could possibly bide time. Thrun get terminus'ed against both.

In case you were curious to try, crying like a little girl when he flips over terminus does not make them change their mind no matter how many variations of crying you try. I've tested this plenty and its still my plan A being that I don't know what else Maverick can do in this matchup.

[iamajellydonut]

what am I doing wrong?

Playing Maverick.


Cynicism aside, It's not an impossible match-up, but they have card advantage, card selection, and multiple locks on their side while we have... not that. You are correct that stopping Sensei's Divining Top is one of the key plays, but there are, unfortunately, few ways to effectively do so without gimping yourself. However, it's worth noting that while their card selection and ability to generate card advantage will be significantly hampered by the removal of Top, they will still be able to set up Termini and Entreats thanks to Brainstorms, Jaces, and sacrificial Jaces. So just getting rid of Top is still not necessarily enough.

There are ways to stomp Miracles as Maverick, but they require different choices in construction. As it stands, you need to be able to go one-for-one while applying pressure, and, regardless of whether Top is in play or not, Maverick can have a bitch of a time doing that.

Steps towards victory: You need to land your equipment so that you can turn crappy dorks like Mom into a force of matronly justice. In fact, any static non-creature presence is a step in the right direction. Sylvan Library is currently the only thing you have in this category, but anything you can easily add that can’t be hit by a Swords or Terminus is great. Your Qasali Pridemages will be your main men. They’re not bombs in the sense that Thrun and Teeg are, but they’re definitely the next best thing given that they’re basically your only tools to combat Counterbalance. Pridemage even has the added benefit of being able to threaten Top if you for some reason land one early. Oh, and, this may go without saying, but if you Green Sun’s for Qasali Pridemage in order to get rid of Counterbalance, don’t blow your load and scream “FUCK YOU COUNTERBALANCE”. You have a creature in play. You don’t need to get rid of Counterbalance until you need to stick another creature in play. Ride out the Pridemage until they’re forced to forced to Swords it or Terminus it. Then you pop it in response for (!)profit. Again, this may seem obvious, but I cannot tell you how many fucking times I have groaned over someone’s shoulder while they got overeager and popped Pridemage before they actually needed to. Some more dumb advice. Drop down guys alongside Teeg. You can safely give him one to two buddies. Still don’t overextend because removal of the Teeg is often likely. Even more dumb advice. Don’t swing with Teeg unless they’re tapped out or have nothing in hand. Why is your Thrun constantly being removed with Terminus? Use more Karakas.

[Warden]

Sample size is low but my games from Sunday were (mentally recalling events here):

Miracles G1. I Green Sun on 0 into Arbor. Meets STP. Manage to drop another land, play Thalia. Thalia swings for a while. I drop Gaddock. Council's + tax on Teeg. I GSZ on 3 + tax. Force of will + tax. Terminus somewhere in here...I lose Thalia + SFM but have equipment on the table. Entreat for 3 (I make him play it out to kill me so I can see more tech with his deck). I draw fetches while angels munch on me.

Miracles G2. Complete blowout. Double terminus (1st was blind, which he said was lucky). Somewhere during this game I have Thalia and accidentally play Choke on 3 (can't do, we get the head judge, warning issued to both me and opponent to be careful). Next turn he ponders for 1. Same head judge issues warning on opponent (all of us laughing as the ponder-but-forgetting-thalia-cost situation just happened). The choke doesn't come out in time (because it was a turn or two behind actually holding him off of things). The last-push effort is me ripping a GSZ late, casting it for x=4 on a blank board. Tapped out into his terminus.

UWr SFM control -- both games he has constant removal. Quick turn 4 jaces end me both games as I can't deal with it in time.
One of the games I cast teeg only to see bolt --> snapcaster --> bolt kill him + a comrade. The second game I keep a greedy hand for the first and only time all day. I lose Dryad to a turn 3 terminus, mana-screwing me. Bryant was watching this whole time and said the opponent had me the whole game hard. Like "he ended the game with verdict + 3 counters in hand" + jace on the table bad. Terminus literally ruins me. And when it's an early terminus it's just over :/

Null Rod could be an answer. I would have to leverage my own equipment against it though. I need a bloodbraid elf type "sudden CA with haste" thing. Perhaps Slaughter Games to take away game-ending spells/jace/terminus?

[iamajellydonut]

Null Rod could be an answer. I would have to leverage my own equipment against it though. I need a bloodbraid elf type "sudden CA with haste" thing. Perhaps Slaughter Games to take away game-ending spells/jace/terminus?

This is why we were so excited for Collected Company.

Anyway, what you described is pretty much the cut and paste "Miracles fucked me" story. Without having physically seen the games, I'm not sure what more could have been done, but I think the above still stands as sort of the rules you have to follow with your current build.

It's the price you pay for running a deck that doesn't have lock pieces or disruption, operates at sorcery speed, and is entirely reliant on creatures.

[Cambriel]

Null Rod could be an answer. I would have to leverage my own equipment against it though. I need a bloodbraid elf type "sudden CA with haste" thing. Perhaps Slaughter Games to take away game-ending spells/jace/terminus?

Null Rod helps. Honestly, I am slowly coming more and more around to the idea of a tutorboard. As much as I dislike the card disadvantage vs Miracles, sometimes it's more important to get the *right* hate early on. Null Rod, Bitterblossom, Spirit of the Labyrinth (or Chains if you have it) all help. I wish there were a Dosan-like card that would keep him from popping miracles on my turn, since slowing him down to sorcery speed evens the playing field dramatically.

Surgical Extraction is also not exactly dead. Miracles is a lot more removal light than it would appear. If you can land Surgical on Plowshares and stick a Teeg, there are very few ways he can win. I suspect something like Stain the Mind has the same effect (but of course, costs a bunch).

[TMagpie]

Null Rod helps. Honestly, I am slowly coming more and more around to the idea of a tutorboard. As much as I dislike the card disadvantage vs Miracles, sometimes it's more important to get the *right* hate early on. Null Rod, Bitterblossom, Spirit of the Labyrinth (or Chains if you have it) all help. I wish there were a Dosan-like card that would keep him from popping miracles on my turn, since slowing him down to sorcery speed evens the playing field dramatically.

Surgical Extraction is also not exactly dead. Miracles is a lot more removal light than it would appear. If you can land Surgical on Plowshares and stick a Teeg, there are very few ways he can win. I suspect something like Stain the Mind has the same effect (but of course, costs a bunch).

Would cards like Nevermore, Meddling Mage, etc... also be good options?

[Cambriel]

Would cards like Nevermore, Meddling Mage, etc... also be good options?

I'd rather have Pithing Needle than Nevermore, and Meddling Mage pushes you towards Bant (not a problem, but also not the prevailing archetype of this thread) when you could just play another Teeg and shut off many more cards at once.

It practically never sees play anymore, but what about Maelstrom Pulse? Cleans up a sky full of angels, hits Counterbalance or Jace... It's expensive, but it's not like the games are finishing before the fourth land drop for Thalia tax.

[Warden]

@iamajellydonut
I'm sure there were misplays and poor lines of play. Again, this was my first event since November. But the overwhelming feeling was "Jesus, I have 0% chance after turn 3". Had others been in my shoes, you'd most likely end up with the same results mainly due to what I drew. Collected Company may have been helpful for the miracles matchup. Against Melendez it wouldn't have contributed anything.

@Cambriel and E.Tutor
The issue with a tutorboard is that they can't be "small". I loved a majority of my stock SB. Barely changes for large events and is relevant/solid all day. I can't see myself having a "tutor board" with E.Tutor and 2 pieces. Perhaps I'm wrong.



I'd rather have Pithing Needle than Nevermore, and Meddling Mage pushes you towards Bant (not a problem, but also not the prevailing archetype of this thread) when you could just play another Teeg and shut off many more cards at once.

It practically never sees play anymore, but what about Maelstrom Pulse? Cleans up a sky full of angels, hits Counterbalance or Jace... It's expensive, but it's not like the games are finishing before the fourth land drop for Thalia tax.

I'd be open to Meddling Mage, which also helps against combo (a weakness of Maverick), but Miracles/UWx control has several cards I want to turn off. The first-pick would be terminus, followed by Counterbalance/Verdict/Jace/STP/Entreat (which all change due to situations). Nevermore is just trash.

[Cambriel]

@Cambriel and E.Tutor
The issue with a tutorboard is that they can't be "small". I loved a majority of my stock SB. Barely changes for large events and is relevant/solid all day. I can't see myself having a "tutor board" with E.Tutor and 2 pieces. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Well, it's not really two pieces. You run Sylvan Library as well, it just happens to already be in the main. For that matter, it also fetches equipment in a pinch. Here's the sideboard you played:

Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
2 Choke
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize

Conveniently, you've got 2 enchantments and 2 artifacts in there already. You can drop a Choke and an Ethersworn, add two E. Tutors, and effectively play 3 phantom copies of both. That's without even touching the rest of your sideboard. For Elves or Storm, you've increased your chance of "drawing" a Canonist, and vs. Miracles you're increasing your access to Sylvan, Choke, Swords, and even a creature in Courser if you just really need to get a threat on the board (unlikely, but it's there). Miracles will *always* win on card quantity. They'll usually win on card selection as well, but you can at least attempt to compete on that angle.

There are plenty of other strong targets for other match ups. It's a matter of finding cards that do what you need them to do as well as the ones you're currently running. Some possible options:

Engineered Explosives is a nice catch all for tokens.
Engineered Plague is a reasonable swap for 1 Toxic Deluge depending on the match you intend it for.
Null Rod / Stony Silence, either or.
A whole host of options vs. Burn. Aegis of Honor, CoP: Red, Warmth, Absolute Law, etc.

Your sideboard looks to be set up largely to fight Elves and Storm or maybe Young Pyro with all those sweepers. 4 seems like a lot. Some of those answers have analogues, and others don't. There will always be a trade off.

[Cambriel]

I'd be open to Meddling Mage, which also helps against combo (a weakness of Maverick), but Miracles/UWx control has several cards I want to turn off. The first-pick would be terminus, followed by Counterbalance/Verdict/Jace/STP/Entreat (which all change due to situations). Nevermore is just trash.

Counterbalance and StP are the only ones that Teeg won't already stop. I just feel like it's important to point that out.

[Megadeus]

In Deadguy I ran a single ETutor SB that I really liked:
1 ETutor
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace (ended up bumping this to a 2-of because of PFire)
1 Ethersworn Canonist

2 Disenchant
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Thalia
2 ZP
1 Perish

Along with main deck Revokers plus the normal 3 card SToneforge Package and ETutor was preety solid for me as a singleton. Obviously some of the choices are different here, but you have access to the same stuff. EE is definitely one I toyed with as well.

[TMagpie]

In Deadguy I ran a single ETutor SB that I really liked:
1 ETutor
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace (ended up bumping this to a 2-of because of PFire)
1 Ethersworn Canonist

2 Disenchant
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Thalia
2 ZP
1 Perish

Along with main deck Revokers plus the normal 3 card SToneforge Package and ETutor was preety solid for me as a singleton. Obviously some of the choices are different here, but you have access to the same stuff. EE is definitely one I toyed with as well.

I know this is a Maverick thread--but can you post/PM me your deadguy list to better understand how the etutor package works as a whole with your deck? Thanks!

[blackdiamonds]

I think e tutor is better for large tournaments 9+ rounds

[Cambriel]

I think e tutor is better for large tournaments 9+ rounds

Totally agree. For random weeknight legacy events, you're probably better off with more specific, higher impact hate cards. E Tutor is pretty good at giving you versatility that would be more effective over the course of a long day.

[Warden]

I got 5th yesterday at a 41-man monthly. I incorporated the great feedback from this thread. I'll provide details in my next post. Garruk who flips was a fucking house in the SB.

[Cambriel]

I got 5th yesterday at a 41-man monthly. I incorporated the great feedback from this thread. I'll provide details in my next post. Garruk who flips was a fucking house in the SB.

Nice! Always happy to hear when Maverick gets a solid result.

And yeah, Garruk is a beating if you can stick him.

[ryrk]

I split top 4 at a 38 player event at Channel Fireball.

//Maindeck
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

1 Sylvan Library

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
2 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland

//Sideboard
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Choke
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege

The CFB meta is pretty infested with Goblins/BUG variants/Delver, so I opted to try Courser in the maindeck. Didn't see her at all except in the T8, so I'll have to try it more. I also put SoLaS maindeck, and put in Chokes and Deluges in place of 2 Abrupt Decays/Containment Priest/Pithing Needle. There was like 3 combo decks in the whole room, and out of 38 people, I figured I wouldn't need to have too much pinpoint Storm hate

R1: 2-0 Some Mono-B aggro variant. Featured discard, Bloodghast, DRS, multiple maindeck Umezawa's Jittes, and Infernal Tutor (since apparently the deck goes hellbent very quickly). He switched to a slightly more Control plan after SB, with Ensnaring Bridge, Bitterblossom and a Damnation. G2 he put down Ensnaring Bridge and two Pithing Needles, one on Jitte and one on Qasali Pridemage, so I win the game by having my Noble Hierarch attack into him for 9 damage total.

In: Wilf Leaf Liege, Scavenging Ooze, 2 ZP
Out: Gaddock Teeg, SoFaI, Scryb Ranger, 1 Wasteland


R2: 2-0 Spanish Inquisition. G1 he got a Game Loss. He announced he was going to mulligan down to 5, but accidentally drew 6. We only noticed that he improperly mulliganed while he was resolving his Land Grant, so Improper Draw at Start of Game was no longer applicable. G2 he fizzles off his T2 Infernal Contract and I play a Canonist. This is definitely a matchup you can't expect to normally win, but we all know Luck>Skill ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

In: 2 Zealous Persecution, 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Toxic Deluge, 2 Ethersworn Canonist, Gaddock Teeg
Out: 2 Stoneforge Mystic, 4 Swords to Plowshares, Titania, Courser of Kruphix, Umezawa's Jitte, Sword of Light and Shadow


R3: 2-1 Goblins. Got owned by maindeck Pyrokinesis Game 1, killing my Noble Hierarch, Deathrite Shaman and Thalia on T2. I had a lot of trumps to bring in G2 and G3, since this was one of the matchups I came prepared for. G2 he keeps a slow hand with no basics and 2 Vials, but earlygame Qasali beatdowns and him later killing a Vial meant my Knight was able to get there before he could stabilize. G3 starts with a sick 3-for-1 when he tried to Pyrokinesis my Stoneforge+DRS, only to meet a Zealous Persecution taking out a Lackey as collateral damage. He wasn't able to stabilize after I drop Knight+WLL.

In: Sorin, Wilt-leaf Liege, 2 Zealous Persecution, 2 Toxic Deluge,
Out: Gaddock Teeg, Scryb Ranger, Sylvan Library, 3 Thalia


R4: 0-2 RUG Delver. Over the course of 2 games, he played something like 7 bolts and 5 goyfs, and also got a backbreaking 2-for-1 with a Forked Bolt killing Thalia+Hierarch G2 Turn 2. Not much to say, as this sometimes just happens. I didn't feel good losing this matchup and somehow winning against Spanish Inquisition. This was also the same guy who knocked me out of getting into Top 8 at SCG Oakland, one day I'll win against him! :frown:

In: Scavenging Ooze, 2 Choke
Out: Titania, Sylvan Library, SoLaS


R5: 2-0 Shardless BUG. I'm not a fan of this matchup in general, but being able to land an early Mom+DRS both games really made things easy. I was able to protect my Scavenging Ooze that I eventually played both games, and that is by far the most important card to be able to protect in almost any BUG matchup, often due to their reliance on DRS+Goyf. This was no different, and Ooze basically won the game on its own both times. Ooze+Cradle is such a good engine if you can get it going.

In: Scavenging Ooze, 2 Choke, 1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Out: 1 Qasali Pridemage, Gaddock Teeg (he didn't have Jace, or I would have left him in), SoLaS, Sylvan Library


I'm in 4th place going into the last round.

R6: 1-2 Food Chain. I unfortunately didn't take notes, so I'm going off of memory here. I can't ID in, since I unfortunately got paired down, and if I lose I have to hope my tiebreakers are good enough. G1 he can't find his combo piece after landing 2 Food Chains and using Manipulate Fate to exile 3 griffins, and I'm able to beat him down. G2 and G3 he transforms into a BUG midrange deck, completely boarding out the combo. I overboard for the combo G2. Jitte wrecks me after he manages to get removal for my Choke. I board some combo hate out in G3, but get grinded out with card advantage from Dig/Strix.

I've got the best of the 12 points in tiebreakers, and I'm 6th going into T8. Someone didn't want to split, so we're at least going to play out T8.

T8: 2-1 Lands. I'm playing one of my good friends, and he's a good Lands player. It's not a good matchup for Maverick, and although we have some tools to fight back against their game plan, it's all pretty mediocre hate for their gameplan aside from Scavenging Ooze, who unfortunately needs to eat a creature before it's able to fight back against Punishing Fire. Game 1 he gets a quick Stage/Depths without me able to do much about it. Game 2 also ends fast with Scooze being able to grow to a 3/3 before it can be removed, and quickly devours the problem cards in my opponents graveyard, Loam and utility lands. I'm able to later get my KotR to wasteland Mazes/Stages and close out the game. In G3, my opponent plays a Phyrexian Revoker, and names my Mother of Runes. They eventually trade, and I later play a Scavenging Ooze. It attempts to eat my opponent's Revoker, and my opponent Punishing Fire's in response, forgetting about the Mom in my graveyard. I close out the game with the card advantage from Courser/Titania.

We split T4. I would have felt good about playing it out. My T4 matchup was Goblins, the same guy I played in R3, Finals would have been either Shardless BUG or Lands, and I would be hoping that Shardless would be able to win that matchup. Other decks in Top 8 were Food Chain (my R6 opponent), RUG Delver (R4 opponent) and AnT.

I like my list if I'm going to be playing in a similar metagame (mostly fair, not a lot of combo). I'm also a really big advocate of Titania in the maindeck, and I encourage you all to try it out.

[Warden]

I top-8'ed Mythic over the weekend. Been busy as hell this week, so here's the list with some thoughts that have been rolling around:

Chris Scagnelli :: Mythic Games April 2015
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes

3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Gaddock Teeg

4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Courser of Kruphix

1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sylvan Library
2x Abrupt Decay

4x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
2x Forest
2x Plains
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor

Sideboard
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Null Rod
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Batterskull
1x Garruk Relentless // Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
2x Armageddon

I saw a room full of blue (delver, grixis, SFM, omni-tell, miracles I'd estimate). Probably 60% if not more had blue dual lands. I swapped from Choke to Armageddon last minute due to some Nic Fit and Lands/grindy stuff.

R1. Nich with Grixis Pyro. W. 2-1. I win game 1 because he plays ponder like a brainstorm. Given a gameloss we agree he was going to win. Game 2 my "meh" hand sucks after a few turns. Game 3 I blow him out with an early cradle + 2 mana dudes leading to Garruk and something else. He had next to nothing on the table by game's end.
R2. Punishing Jund. W. 2-1. I clobber him G1 with Thalia and wastelands. G2 I attempt the same thing but he pulls back at some point. I scoop to him with 13.5 minutes to go. He had all the value on board and it woulda been nearly impossible to play out to win (confidant, his own kruphix, BBE, burned through 2 Liliana). I crush him game 3 by making some solid picks with my line of play. I wasteland him twice rather early...putting him on 1 swamp while I bulk up creatures. I don't overextend because i know he has Toxic. Within lethal range, I drop a KotR I get back from the dead via Light/Shadow. His toxic would kill him before he wipes my team. He extends for the handshake.
R3. Cassidy with UR delver. W. 2-0. I get a bit lucky and have better lines than he does. I discover he is running the 2 dual version. Lots of basics. Game 1 I manage to punch it in with Kruphix gaining me life god forbid shenanigans ensue. Game 2 he mulls to an island-island hand. Never sees another land. We wrap up G2 within 3 minutes since he needs a fetch and doesn't have a land for (I kid you not) the next 20 turns.
R4. Tibbets with American SFM. W. 2-1. I thank friends for answering questions I had regarding SFM and Miracle decks earlier. I needed a new angle on how to beat them and everyone told me just go for wastelands if possible. Miracles and SFM decks have a bunch of lands but the greed in the current meta is real. G1 I lose after an attrition war + he scales up rather fast with TNN + Jitte + Batterskull and 2 SFM. G2 I beat him. G3 we have a controversial situation where the lines of play are as follows:
Tibbets on the play
t1. He drops Volcanic. I drop wasteland --> nuke Volc, go.
t2. He drops tundra, go. I drop land --> Mom. He STP EOT
t3. Nothing. I drop land again --> mom and ask "is it good?". He quickly stp then untaps and draws a card. I ask what is he doing? Then I call a judge.
We resolve things by giving Tibbets a warning (although it could have been a gameloss at this point, apparently the draw wouldn't provide any game advantage. I was not a fan of this call but also not on tilt. I explain how I wanted to drop mom (understanding she gets STP#2) because I was looking to drop Noble thereafter. We backup the game to allow Mom #2 to take STP #2. I drop Hierarch, go.
t4. He doesn't do anything again. I drop KotR.
t5. He drops Karakas I believe. I wasteland-tutor. I think Tibbets scoops on his following turn because there's nothing he can do now. I'm eating what little mana he has. I apologize for the judge call incident on him because he's honestly a tremendous player. He told me the wasteland situation would win the game regardless because the CC of cards in his hand was too high to deal with any disruption.
So I'm 4-0-0 and proceed to ID with Eli and Matt for auto top 8.

Top 8. Justin with Elves. L. 0-2. Against Elves I have the pick of playing or passing. I take the play (obv) but lose hard. No removal outside of a lone decay. He glimpse-kills me. I board in 10 cards. G2 I mull to 6 with an okay hand (but no removal). I didn't want to chance it on a 5-card hand. I proceed to lose with Justin running a loop of double glimpse + a million guys. I politely ask if he can Hoof and scoop when he shows me it. Justin was playing around a Zealous I didn't have. Sucks that I saw no hate but I can't be too salty...I made top 8 and had a great day.

The SB would need work. I think the E-tutor plan is legit. I didn't have to face Miracles but was definitely prepared. Spirit was "meh" (as I've always felt), but she's an immediate card Delver and Grix need to answer. 3 Thalia + 2 Decay in the main felt perfect. I may move Garruk to the main. The games he came out or was in my hand he was a goddamn tank. I may fool around with Confidant again. I think these fair delver decks can't handle a critical mass of duded/card advantage.

[Cambriel]

Going to a monthly legacy swiss event tomorrow with Maverick. The TO is offering an additional prize to anyone who goes 3-1 or better without Brainstorms, so I'm expecting a slightly skewed meta. It'll probably mean at least one goblin deck, lands, elves, possibly some stax, etc. Almost certainly more Blood Moons than I want to deal with.

Here's what I'm thinking for a sideboard, trying not to skew too hard away from anti-blue tech:

1 Aegis of Honor (Burn)
1 Bitterblossom (Lands, Miracles)
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender (Burn)
2 Enlightened Tutor (enabler)
1 Engineered Plague (Goblins, Elves, maybe Merfolk)
1 Ethersworn Canonist (combo)
1 Gaddock Teeg (Miracles, combo)
1 Pithing Needle (Miracles, Lands)
1 Scavenging Ooze (Reanimator, Dredge, fair decks)
2 Thoughtseize (combo)
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon (Reanimator, Dredge)
2 Zealous Persecution (Goblins, Elves, D&T, Storm/Belcher if there's room)

Other considerations: Null Rod, Tsabo's Web (kills vs D&T and Lands), Bojuka Bog

Thoughts?

[Fl0do]

Cambriel, how does your maindeck look like?

I would not play Enlightened Tutor in the sideboard, more real answers are generally better than any tutors.

You're also lacking some cards like Cataclysm and Choke, which punish control decks. Also Burn is not a matchup where I want to use dedicated sideboard space. A second Umezawa's Jitte seems better, especially if you expect more creature decks.

[Cambriel]

I disagree re: Enlightened Tutor, for reasons I've described in previous pages. Basically, because the matchups where I most need a sideboard card that it can fetch (combo, Miracles, Dredge), I cannot tutor those cards any other way, and it dramatically amplifies my chances of drawing that particular silver bullet. They only come in for matches where the card disadvantage is significantly outweighed by the impact of a given sideboard card. These are also matches where I almost always have more "bad" cards to pull than I have good cards to put in. Either dead top end, or dead removal. Tutor fixes that in a hurry.

As for Cataclysm and Choke, they're both fine cards that have rarely justified themselves for me. Cataclysm has never been as detrimental to Miracles or Lands as Armageddon. We're not a deck like D&T that can keep a Port + Batterskull and ride that to a win. I'd be open to suggestions on where it is most effective.

Choke is really high variance, but I could see maybe running it over Forge-Tender. I'm not a huge fan of 1-of sideboard creatures that I can't dig out with GSZ.

edit: Oh, here's the main that I usually run:

Creatures:24
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary

Spells:14
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands:22
1 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

[Fl0do]

I used to play a very similar list with decent success vs. Miracles:
-1 Noble Hierarch, -2 Abrupt Decay --> +1 Birds of Paradise, +1 Sigarda, Host of Herons, +1 Sword of Light and Shadow and a 1-of Cavern of Souls.

Sigarda and Sword of Light and Shadow are additional bombs you can play vs. Miracles (and grindy matchups in general), the protection Sword of Light and Shadow offers is very relevant and the abilities let you play the long game.

My sideboard approach is to play the powerful cards/effects in multiples to find them early enough and drawing into multiple hate pieces is never bad. In problematic matchups (Combo, Miracles) my strategy is to slow them down with Thalia and the get a "stream" of hate permanents going. Enlightened Tutor is not only carddisadvantage (especially if your hate permanend gets handled) but can also be hit by Duress (vs. Storm, not sure if this gets boarded or will stay in the maindeck vs. Maverick) and Spell Pierce (S&T and Miracles) or is difficult to get past a counterbalance.

With this in mind I made 2 sideboards which work quite well for me.

Sideboard without Thoughtseize:
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke (Split with Cataclysm or Armageddon if I expect more nonblue decks relying on lots of lands).
1 Containment Priest

Sideboard with Thoughtseize:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
3 Thoughtseize

I can really recommend Toxic Deluge, because it does not only help vs. tribal strategies but also vs. Jund, Shardless Sultai, etc.

Recently I'm thinking of Gavony Township, should be nice if things get grindier and may be you can live the dream and put your hatebears out of Massacre range, lol :)

[Seraphix]

...
1 Aegis of Honor (Burn)
1 Bitterblossom (Lands, Miracles)
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender (Burn)
2 Enlightened Tutor (enabler)
1 Engineered Plague (Goblins, Elves, maybe Merfolk)
1 Ethersworn Canonist (combo)
1 Gaddock Teeg (Miracles, combo)
1 Pithing Needle (Miracles, Lands)
1 Scavenging Ooze (Reanimator, Dredge, fair decks)
2 Thoughtseize (combo)
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon (Reanimator, Dredge)
2 Zealous Persecution (Goblins, Elves, D&T, Storm/Belcher if there's room)

Other considerations: Null Rod, Tsabo's Web (kills vs D&T and Lands), Bojuka Bog

Thoughts?

Wheel of Sun and Moon is sweet but against Reanimator or Dredge I think you want an effect that kills their whole yard like Bog, Tormod's Crypt, or Nihil Spellbomb considering how explosive they can be on their 1st turn.

[Cambriel]

Wheel of Sun and Moon is sweet but against Reanimator or Dredge I think you want an effect that kills their whole yard like Bog, Tormod's Crypt, or Nihil Spellbomb considering how explosive they can be on their 1st turn.

Probably true. I wanted something that wouldn't switch off my own graveyard for Knight and Deathrite. Bog and Spellbomb are probably both fine. Wheel is such a pretty foil though, vanity is getting the better of me. :p When I stuck Wheel in there I was actually thinking more about Lands than anything.

In reference to the previous comment, yeah... Toxic Deluge is awesome. I'm always happy when I see that one in fair matches.

[Warden]

I still think RIP is the best anti-gy card to run. If I'm not mistaken, Hollywood says it's got the best odds to shut down dredge. Bog is great if you time it right, but RIP basically ends them on the spot. As for Reanimator, I'd run RIP in conjunction with a stack of lady bears: Thalia, Canonist, C. Priest.

@E-Tutor board: I'm convinced I need 6+ anti-combo cards in any developed meta and 4+ sweepers for fair decks. This gives me up to 5 slots to fool around with any given weekend (usually dedicated hate for Miracles). Running a 4x or 5x E-tutor board is the biggest I'd go. I liked having some flexibility in my recent outing, but I'm of the opinion you can't dedicate too much of your SB to bullets.

[iamajellydonut]

I still think RIP is the best anti-gy card to run. If I'm not mistaken, Hollywood says it's got the best odds to shut down dredge. Bog is great if you time it right, but RIP basically ends them on the spot. As for Reanimator, I'd run RIP in conjunction with a stack of lady bears: Thalia, Canonist, C. Priest.

As it exiles any pre-existing graveyard, there's no question that RIP is best at in the 2cc slot. Even the price of having to exile your own graveyard is a very small price to pay as your opponent's graveyard is guaranteed to matter more, and you can still repeatedly Crop Rotate with your Gray Ogre.

Bog is pretty terrible though. Its only advantage over any sort of standard grave-hate is its ability to be tutored up. And if you can make it to turn 3-5 against any sort of grave-reliant deck and untap with a Knight of the Reliquary, you're probably already in an exceptionally good spot anyway and there's probably better things you can tutor up. Maverick doesn't have Crop Rotation. If it did, maybe things would be different. But you don't have the ability to tutor up Bog when it's actually relevant.

[blackdiamonds]

Not worth putting in the e tutor in the following match ups but bringing in rip

Jund; shuts down goyf, deathrite, recurring p fire n loam out of the side

Grixis pyro; dig, germag/ tomb stalker/tasigar ,cabal therapy

Bug/rug delver goyf, goose, drs, loam , delve spells

Shardless dig, goyf, drs, tasigar

Yes it shuts off our knight n drs but we have equipment like jitte n sofai to go over the top of the creatures

I'm playing at a 1k on Saturday and want to play an e tutor SB BUT not sure of the targets to select

[Cambriel]

That's one of the reasons I don't care as much for RIP, honestly. It does shut down a lot vs. those decks, but it hamstrings us almost as much. It's very telling that decks like D&T side in RIP vs. us. We're a low powered green & taxes list with it on the board, with fewer equipment tutors and less mana denial.

Jund has never been a problem matchup for me, and I'd much rather let my Knights square off vs their Goyfs at full power. RUG, on the other hand, basically can't win with RIP on the field. Their only win condition at that point is Delver, which is admittedly a weakness for us but not insurmountable. I don't have enough experience with RIP on the field vs. Shardless or Grixis to really comment, but I can see pros and cons. It's just such a bummer playing under RIP, and games take a lot longer.

Back to E-Tutor for a minute... my philosophy on bringing it is this: Is it a match where I would mulligan a hand to find a silver bullet? IE., Storm, Reanimator, High Tide, Belcher to some extent, etc. If so, then it goes in. It's basically increasing my % of 6+ card keeps. I don't need a laundry list of bullets in the sideboard to make that worthwhile, especially when several of our best hate cards are already artifacts or enchantments.

[iamajellydonut]

Back to E-Tutor for a minute... my philosophy on bringing it is this: Is it a match where I would mulligan a hand to find a silver bullet? IE., Storm, Reanimator, High Tide, Belcher to some extent, etc. If so, then it goes in. It's basically increasing my % of 6+ card keeps. I don't need a laundry list of bullets in the sideboard to make that worthwhile, especially when several of our best hate cards are already artifacts or enchantments.

This is a very good Enlightened Tutor guideline.

Anyway, RIP may cut off the beater aspect of Knight and it may hurt Deathrite Shaman, but none of the available grave hate come without some sort of a trade-off. Rest in Peace and Relic of Progenitus exile your own graveyard. Wheel of Sun and Moon lets them keep whatever they already have for a graveyard. Grafdigger's Cage cuts off Green Sun's Zenith. Nihil Spellbomb is crap. Surgical Extraction doesn't hit bulk.

Take your pick.

[Cambriel]

I've lost too many games to Grafdigger's shutting off GSZ. Nothing is more annoying than having GSZ in hand and being locked out of it by Grafdigger's only to see Elves blow it up and then Natural Order for the win.

Elves is a particularly bad match because so few of our hatebears matter. Teeg performs admirably, as does Ethersworn Canonist, but Thalia is pretty much a bust. We're perpetually an Abrupt Decay away from a game loss.

[Warden]

I've lost too many games to Grafdigger's shutting off GSZ. Nothing is more annoying than having GSZ in hand and being locked out of it by Grafdigger's only to see Elves blow it up and then Natural Order for the win.

Elves is a particularly bad match because so few of our hatebears matter. Teeg performs admirably, as does Ethersworn Canonist, but Thalia is pretty much a bust. We're perpetually an Abrupt Decay away from a game loss.

Elves you need sweepers because you can't 1-for-1 them fast enough (swords, path, decay, etc). My most recent event I lost in top 8 despite bringing in 10 cards. Not seeing the hate/variance sucks. I'm on the fence about playing Maverick this weekend simply because sweepers are THAT good right now (x/1 and x/2 things are just all over the place).

[iamajellydonut]

Elves you need sweepers because you can't 1-for-1 them fast enough (swords, path, decay, etc). My most recent event I lost in top 8 despite bringing in 10 cards. Not seeing the hate/variance sucks.

This is basically the reason I wouldn't ever stray from Punishing Maverick when trying to make something in Junk colors. It just adds that much more "consistency" to the deck.

[Cambriel]

Elves you need sweepers because you can't 1-for-1 them fast enough (swords, path, decay, etc). My most recent event I lost in top 8 despite bringing in 10 cards. Not seeing the hate/variance sucks. I'm on the fence about playing Maverick this weekend simply because sweepers are THAT good right now (x/1 and x/2 things are just all over the place).

Yup. It's crazy annoying because it's a creature based combo deck. Food Chain is a little bit like that too, but it's a much better matchup.

Zealous Persecution does a lot of work, but you have to actually draw it.

[DudeItsCorey]

This is basically the reason I wouldn't ever stray from Punishing Maverick when trying to make something in Junk colors. It just adds that much more "consistency" to the deck.

Yeah, but Thalia does so much work against all other combo decks, its hard to justify going the punishing route for just 1 bad matchup. I would prefer to just try and dodge them as opposed to making an inferior deck to decks like Storm, Dredge and Omni. Also, Thalia+Wasteland help you run away with games that Punishing Fire can't.

[Cambriel]

Yeah, but Thalia does so much work against all other combo decks, its hard to justify going the punishing route for just 1 bad matchup. I would prefer to just try and dodge them as opposed to making an inferior deck to decks like Storm, Dredge and Omni. Also, Thalia+Wasteland help you run away with games that Punishing Fire can't.

Tends to be my preference as well. PFire is the slowest of the slow, and forces you away from playing Thalia.

I'm actually starting to reassess Containment Priest as a sideboard card. She handles a lot of the same problems as grave hate while making people play fair. Yeah, it's a nonbo with GSZ, but that seems like a small price to pay if it shuts off Natural Order, Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, etc. Hell, can Dredge even win through her at all?

[Seraphix]

Tends to be my preference as well. PFire is the slowest of the slow, and forces you away from playing Thalia.

I'm actually starting to reassess Containment Priest as a sideboard card. She handles a lot of the same problems as grave hate while making people play fair. Yeah, it's a nonbo with GSZ, but that seems like a small price to pay if it shuts off Natural Order, Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, etc. Hell, can Dredge even win through her at all?

Punishing Fire and Thalia aren't mutually exclusive. You just board out your Punishing Fires and board in your Thalias against combo. Its not like we have the greatest game 1 against most combo decks even with Thalia maindeck.

I haven't actually played her yet, but Containment Priest looks like a godsend for this deck. I always would think how great it would be to have a Rest in Peace hatebear and lo and behold they printed this lady. I gravitate towards finding creature based hate rather than enchantment or artifact for this deck since they attack and can be protected by Mother of Runes. Dredge will certainly struggle to beat her if she comes out early, though they can always fall back on the timeless "hard-cast Stinkweed Imp" plan.

[Warden]

Dredge can contagion Priest and move forward. Assuming you can protect her, she does a lot of damage. I think RIP may be an auto-include for my next event.

[anakyn]

Quick questions for you Maverick players: why last lists prefer Sword of light and shadow over Batterskull?

[iamajellydonut]

Dredge can contagion Priest and move forward. Assuming you can protect her, she does a lot of damage. I think RIP may be an auto-include for my next event.

And Dredge can Nature's Claim and move forward.

The biggest problem with Containment Priest, aside from its narrow application in the meta and its symmetrical effect, is the same problem Maverick has with every other tool. We have to draw it.

[TMagpie]

Quick questions for you Maverick players: why last lists prefer Sword of light and shadow over Batterskull?

I play Batterskull over Sword of Light and Shadow but!

No other Sword of ___ & ____ has pulled my ass out of the fire more times and in more ways than that equipment. The flexibility of options it provides is very Scryb Ranger where, upon initial inspection, feels very weak, but the more you play it the more you see uses for it you never really thought about before?

Its card advantage engine is sometimes as good as Fire and Ice
Its life gain sometimes allows you to win races better than fire and ice
Its protections are more relevant than Fire and Ice

And sometimes you just get neatscenarios like recurring a Qasali Pridemage to destroy the opponent's board, using the pro-black to win the batterskull war.

But you also get into weird ones--like using it to recur a Dryad Arbor to give you a forest to sacrifice to Knight of the Reliquary.

Although the biggest nombo is needing to use a Tower of the Magistrate to un-equip the Light and Shadow to allow you to give your creature protection with Mother of Runes.

[Fl0do]

@Sword of Light and Shadow:
I play it over Batterskull or other Equipment for some time now (alongside Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice). The protection it provides is very relevant and the abilities are good in a lots of matchups.
It shines vs. Miracles as it turns every creature in a threat which can only handled with Terminus and it brings back countered creatures.
Protection from white also helps you to power through Death & Taxes, where the board is often clogged with creatures on both sides.
The lifegain is also useful vs. Burn, though Batterskull is better here, but also clunkier than the sword.

[DudeItsCorey]

@Sword of Light and Shadow:
I play it over Batterskull or other Equipment for some time now (alongside Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice). The protection it provides is very relevant and the abilities are good in a lots of matchups.
It shines vs. Miracles as it turns every creature in a threat which can only handled with Terminus and it brings back countered creatures.
Protection from white also helps you to power through Death & Taxes, where the board is often clogged with creatures on both sides.
The lifegain is also useful vs. Burn, though Batterskull is better here, but also clunkier than the sword.

It's also insane in reoccurring Qasali Pridemage. I think its more of a sideboard card than a mainboard. Remember, it does shut off mother of runes, for instances you're trying force damage through TNN, protection from Jace bounce/submerge, etc.

[TMagpie]

It's also insane in reoccurring Qasali Pridemage. I think its more of a sideboard card than a mainboard. Remember, it does shut off mother of runes, for instances you're trying force damage through TNN, protection from Jace bounce/submerge, etc.

One last thing:

Sword of Fire and Ice deal +2 damage
Sword of Light and Shadow gains +3 life

This means that in a straight up damage race, the life differential per swing is higher with Sword of Light and Shadow vs Sword of Fire and Ice despite FI dealing more damage per hit which is important in clogged up boards where both sides can only send 1-2 evasive creatures at a time.

[Warden]

Given the state of the meta, I've been thinking about dropping Light and Shadow from the maindeck in favor of Body/Mind (colors) or Behemoth Sledge. Sledge has that [3] to equip, which sucks. I really like all of its effects (especially trample). This means pyromancer and TNN can't nerf your damage (not to mention lifelink off the trample damage).

[TMagpie]

I came to a similar conclusion, relegating Sword of Light and Shadow to sometimes a sideboard card depending how unknown the metagame is that I'm going to. For the most part, its too useful not to want but not powerful enough to need.

[blackdiamonds]

Playing in a 1k will post list n results

[Warden]

Made top 8. Was shooting the shit with blackdiamonds most of the day. Will also post list and stuff in the new post. Decays, Scooze, and Courser were MVP.

[Cambriel]

My hatred of Elves is beginning to transcend the bounds of reality. Goddammit I hate that matchup so much. There's really nothing else in the format where we're so heavily dependent on drawing incredibly specific, narrow hate. Even with Belcher, at least all of the various hate cards do something each game.

[Fatal]

@Cambriel

Let me introduce you hate package:

MD(Punishing Fire Maverick):

-3 Punishing Fire,
-4 StP
-2 Decay's.
- Gaddock Teeg
- Umezawa's Jitte

SB:
- Chalice of the Void - it's also very useful vs Miracle where you side out Swords to Plowshares and bring CotV, running 1-2 Cavern of Souls should be fit MD, works also nice vs Storm
- Ethersworn Canonist - works well also vs Storm and Omnitell
- Sweepers - I used EE since it's very universal, you can also use some -1/-1 effects.

Play controlish - don't rush - keep opponent clean - assamble CotV, then Gaddock. Keep in check Glimpse with CotV or Canonist. Close route with Gaddock (NO for progenitus).

[Warden]

Here is my Top 8 list from the past weekend. We chopped Top 8. Apologies for taking so long....being an adult and working is a thing.

Dark Maverick :: Chris Scagnelli :: Jupiter Games - May 2015 (Top 8, seeded #4)
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Courser of Kruphix

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

Lands:22 + Dryad
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Gaddock Teeg #2
2 Containment Priest
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Null Rod
1 Rest in Peace
1 Choke
1 Banishing Light
1 Enlightened Tutor

R1 / Steven / American UWR Delver / W
Game 1 I've played Steven before. I peg him on Miracles early (seeing 2x blue fetches and ponder). As the game progresses, I see bstorm, bolt, and eventually a taylor swiftspear. I get as low as 6 and stabilize off either Scooze or Kruphix. I start taking serious chunks of his life down while gaining. I win with the life totals looking 4 (he scoops) vs 9 (10-> 7 -> 6 -> 9).
Game 2 I play a textbook sequence in reaction to what I read a a greedy keep. He goes volcanic -> delver -> go. I T1 waste him. He blindflips delver revealing FoW. My hand is stacked and I have a series of plays that basically holds him landless as I take shots from the 3/2 insectile. I bait a daze on a GSZ for 0, then bait a FoW on thalia (pitching dig). I eventually rip his hand apart and swords delver. I start gathering serious momentum while he sits on swiftspear. I play conservative and drop a scooze + eat shit in the grave to grow fast. At some point he rough/tumbles...leaving me with scooze to his swiftspear. I play tight as assemble a small crew. I eventually just plow through his lines with Mom giving a big Scooze some pro-red.
*One of these games his miser Dak Faden stole my Jitte. Things almost got serious but I managed to have Moms to nerf damage + QPM to eliminate the jitte.
*Decay was relevant both games

R2 / Justin / Elves! / L
Game 1: I actually win. He mulls to 6 and I nuke his arbor with wasteland + ride thalia for a while. I played tight. He couldn't assemble an army because he kept having to dryad #2-bounce with Quirion block some of my team. Jitte on Thalia sealed things quick.
Game 2: I brought in 10 cards. I turn 1 E.tutor for Canonist. Drop Canonist turn 2 (yeaaa buddy). She gets abrupt decay'ed in the face. I manage to drop a natural Teeg in hand. He glimpse-clains the next turn. I scoop at 19 life because I have like 70 dmg coming through (chained so well he had Craterhoof and 10+ in hand).
Game 3: I did everything technically correct (we both discussed this after). I correctly drop teeg and containment priest. He does a game-ending glimpse chain on like turn 5. I kicked myself for not playing KotR earlier (had I sequenced differently she could have been active for 1 turn to wasteland a dual) but honestly, she wouldn't have done much. I never saw sweepers G2/3 and I die.
*I need to heed my earlier advice of running 5+ sweepers for elves. 4 doesn't cut it across 2 events against Justin.

R3 / Joe / Burn / W
Game 1: I pull a VERY lucky win. I get down to 6 and have enough momentum to hold Joe off. His own sulfuric vortex helped out a bunch.
Game 2: I misplay KotR setting up something big. He manages to fireblast me for exactly lethal the next turn. I am pissed at myself...plus it's fucking burn.
Game 3: Kruphix is a boss. I fall as low as 7 and manage to ramp back up to 10 for a nice safety net.

R4 / Big Philip / Grixis Delver with Pyromancer / W
Game 1: I pull out a win. Don't recall much but the lifetotals indicate a race. I jotted notes of counters I saw (some pitched to FoW): 3 forces, 3 dazes, and 1 stifle.
Game 2: He pulls early force-pitching stifle into force-pitching fire/ice while riding a delver. I manage to shoot the insectile down and drop some well-endowed lady knights. I believe this game I burned through my wastelands to hold him to 1 dual and 1 fetch. It was the smart move because this grixis deck needs a greedy manabase to operate/chain spells for pyro.
*Both games Decay was really relevant

R5 / Patrick / Burn / W
Game 1: I crush (finishing 11 life).
Game 2: I lose because he can exact-damage me after I try to stabilize with DRS. I misplayed by fetching (3 life -> 2 -> DRS to get me up to 4). He fireblasts for lethal without me having a way to respond.
Game 3: Utter revenge. I drop a land and pass. He goes lavamancer, go. I drop thalia and proceed to capitalize on his land-screw. At some point he gets the second land but I'm so far ahead. I win with 18 life.
*Thalia wins games

R6 / Evan / Miracles / ID
Evan has my number. No doubt he'd win this but we agree to just ID and forego the slim chance of not making top 8.

Top 8 - Chop

Notes:
-Decays in the main work right now. Props to @blackdiamonds for telling me to just run them and not think about it
-@blackdiamonds actually windmill-slaming choke was the funniest moment that day.
-Knight of the Reliquary <3. People talk trash about her "not being too good" pre-match only to gulp as they see she's upwards of a 5/5 and is coming after their mana
-Thalia, Kruphix, and Scooze were ridiculous. Pick 2 of them = some permutation of how I won games.
-I need to stop following the internet and go with my gut on 2x Scooze instead of 1x. It's unfair against delver. Shit, UWR delver nuked my entire board except him and still lost.
-Thalia is a fucking house. I almost ran Junk because I wasn't sure how effective she'd be that day. Boy did I get my answers. Running 3 is the right call if you run more spells like 2 decay and 3 equips. 4x I tend to see multiples, which are awkward.
-Batterskull was better than Light and Shadow but still not too impressive. Part of me is searching for that 3rd equipment. perhaps I'll go back to 2 jitte. Batterskull was almost always the "homerun" option I never needed. It helped in a burn match but I would argue light and shadow would have been equally valuable. If Dig Through Time weren't so damn popular, body and mind would be the #3 equipment. I may run body and mind regardless next event.
-E tutor board was kinda worthless. On-paper it's got merits but I would want those 5 slots back.

[DaDitka]

Thanks for the report Warden.

How was Garruk? I think you mentioned he was awesome earlier but how was he in the most recent tourney?

Have you considered Sigarda in place of a third equipment? Or how about a third Stoneforge in place of the third equipment? I currently run two stoneforge and three equipment (including SoLaS), but I often feel I want to draw stoneforge more often but don't want to play 3 stoneforge plus three equipment.

Also, my personal experience with e Tutor also suggests it isn't worth it. what do you think those five slots will return to?

[Benke]

Nice run Warden!

I like the list. I think your arguments for running 3 Thalia are valid (taxing equipments and redundancy), but I would have a hard time cutting one.

Regarding the sideboard - Was the lack of Thoughtsieze a meta-dependent choice? I see that you didn't face any combo, so guess it was the correct call :)

[Warden]

Thanks for the report Warden.

How was Garruk? I think you mentioned he was awesome earlier but how was he in the most recent tourney?

Have you considered Sigarda in place of a third equipment? Or how about a third Stoneforge in place of the third equipment? I currently run two stoneforge and three equipment (including SoLaS), but I often feel I want to draw stoneforge more often but don't want to play 3 stoneforge plus three equipment.

Also, my personal experience with e Tutor also suggests it isn't worth it. what do you think those five slots will return to?

Garruk came in for the delver matchups but never hit the board. He is relevant because at worst, he's something to eat taylor swiftspear/DRS/delver. If he stays out, they can't answer him.
@Sigarda...I don't like her in my hand. Batterskull > Sigarda for 5-drops IMHO. I may have to play her again to test her out.
@SFM...what you describe is 1/2 of what goes on in my head. I want 2.5 SFM and 2.5 equipment. 3:2 in either direction is awkward. I DO like games that go long and I win because of that 3rd equipment. Othertimes I just outright need something to push dorks through.
@e tutor....yeah, it wasn't hot but I won despite it.


Nice run Warden!

I like the list. I think your arguments for running 3 Thalia are valid (taxing equipments and redundancy), but I would have a hard time cutting one.

Regarding the sideboard - Was the lack of Thoughtsieze a meta-dependent choice? I see that you didn't face any combo, so guess it was the correct call :)
@3 Thalia: I find Kruphix to be the 4th Thalia for irrational reasons. Maybe subconsciously I am looking at balancing the lesser tax effect with a 3cc creature. Idk. I think 3 is "juuuust enough". I still stand by 3x Thalia if you run more spells. I don't like Library or Decay costing 3cc under her, so I try to offset that as much as possible.
@0 Thoughtseize: There was reanimator, high tide, and omni-tell in the room. I'd rather go with e-tutor/canonist/choke/banishing on top of containment priest than a blanket thoughtseize. If the room had more "combo" like storm and post (using the combo term lightly), I'd consider running thoughtseize. I won and traded for therapies and that is also in contention for SB slots. I think the shot of x-for-1'ing the opponent twice could outweigh TS. Therapy is serious value I want in the deck.

[Cambriel]

I think the shot of x-for-1'ing the opponent twice could outweigh TS. Therapy is serious value I want in the deck.

It's worth trying. I've looked at Therapy several times and wondered if it wasn't worth a shot over Thoughtseize. There are so many games where you're really only worried about one specific card.

Sorry E Tutor didn't work out. I'm still a fan personally, but it's matchup dependent for sure.

I'm thinking of dropping down to 3x Thalia same as you, mainly because Decay in the main ends up so expensive. I do like Courser, but I'm more tempted to try a second Teeg in the main. It's bad vs. our good matchups, but helps game 1 vs Elves and Miracles quite a bit.

[iamajellydonut]

It's worth trying.

This is the opposite of the truth. You do not run Cabal Therapy because of its potential to be a two-for-one. You run it based on the conditions of its casting. You have no dedicated sac outlet. You have no other way to peek at their hand. So, not only do you have a high probability of wiffing, but it ceases to be a two-for-one if you have to sacrifice something like a Stoneforge Mystic to get there. Blind casting a Cabal Therapy will never result in "Oh, my God, I hit all four Brainstorms!".

[Cambriel]

This is the opposite of the truth. You do not run Cabal Therapy because of its potential to be a two-for-one. You run it based on the conditions of its casting. You have no dedicated sac outlet. You have no other way to peek at their hand. So, not only do you have a high probability of wiffing, but it ceases to be a two-for-one if you have to sacrifice something like a Stoneforge Mystic to get there. Blind casting a Cabal Therapy will never result in "Oh, my God, I hit all four Brainstorms!".

I didn't say it would *work*, just that it's worth testing. :p Writing things off and not revisiting them in low stakes environments is a good way to end up with tunnel vision.

Therapy is a very aggressive disruption card, and is generally only in combo decks for a reason. When you're going to win that turn, naming whatever card stops you (usually Force) is fine whether you hit it or not. If you get it, great. If not, it's not there anyway, so go ahead and win. We can't match that, so Thoughtseize is probably better.

That being said, I'd be fine testing it against Belcher or Storm for the same reasons they use it on us. Pick apart whatever scares you. Thoughtseize is probably still better there because you're guaranteed to snag something, but Therapy might have a little upside vs. other decks. I could probably envision a scenario where trading a Dryad Arbor or a Mother of Runes was worth ripping something ugly. Good enough to make the 75? Unlikely, but I can't really say either way.

[Warden]

I didn't say it would *work*, just that it's worth testing. :p Writing things off and not revisiting them in low stakes environments is a good way to end up with tunnel vision.

Therapy is a very aggressive disruption card, and is generally only in combo decks for a reason. When you're going to win that turn, naming whatever card stops you (usually Force) is fine whether you hit it or not. If you get it, great. If not, it's not there anyway, so go ahead and win. We can't match that, so Thoughtseize is probably better.

That being said, I'd be fine testing it against Belcher or Storm for the same reasons they use it on us. Pick apart whatever scares you. Thoughtseize is probably still better there because you're guaranteed to snag something, but Therapy might have a little upside vs. other decks. I could probably envision a scenario where trading a Dryad Arbor or a Mother of Runes was worth ripping something ugly. Good enough to make the 75? Unlikely, but I can't really say either way.

This is exactly the line of thought I'm thinking. All of what you say. I'm willing to test it, should it make logical sense running discard in my 75/76. I'm noticing a lot of opponents having redundancy in their hand. I'm actually not concerned with cantrips as much as I'm concerned about [double] something or removal spells in general. On turn 4/5/6, I'm finding myself wanting to just hold my opponent off cards before they match my threat with a sweeper or key piece of removal. The flashback is gravy. I agree with Cambriel....there are some caddy-corner cases where I'll gladly trade a dork for ensuring my opponent loses that key spell.

[iamajellydonut]

Except that ANT actually only cares about two opposing things in any given deck whereas ANT itself usually packs about fourteen different cards that can claim "cause of death". Even then, ANT by no means wants to call blind. It's only with especial reluctance that they do so in games two and three. You can't just call out Infernal Tutor or Show and Tell as Maverick and call it a day. Because even if what you call is in their hand, it may not be what they need. That is to say, what you want and what they need are two completely different things, and what they need is far, far more important.

[Cambriel]

Except that ANT actually only cares about two opposing things in any given deck whereas ANT itself usually packs about fourteen different cards that can claim "cause of death". Even then, ANT by no means wants to call blind. It's only with especial reluctance that they do so in games two and three. You can't just call out Infernal Tutor or Show and Tell as Maverick and call it a day. Because even if what you call is in their hand, it may not be what they need. That is to say, what you want and what they need are two completely different things, and what they need is far, far more important.

Granting all that for the sake of argument, how does it not also apply to Thoughtseize? If the decks are redundant enough that snagging Show and Tell or Infernal Tutor isn't enough (by which I mean, gets you to turn 2 for Thalia), then how would any discard actually save you in that instance?

Perhaps I've been playing it all wrong, but Thoughtseize is basically the *worst* sideboard card I've got. It's sole advantage is in being disruption we can play on turn 1 when all of our other taxing effects aren't relevant until a turn later when we're likely to be dead before we untap. Storm is not a bad match at all provided we survive long enough to land Thalia, Canonist, or Teeg. We have lots of turn 2 haymakers. It's getting there that sucks, and for that, it would seem to me both Thoughtseize and Therapy are equally useful. Name what kills you before you get your legs under you. Let the rest of your deck handle the rest of theirs.

I'm advocating a little strongly here for something I don't think is going to work that well, but that doesn't make it pointless to test.

[Strassbaw]

Hello Maverick Players,

I am still piloting Punishing Dark Maverick with a good deal of success. Recently, Omnitell has made a big impact at my local game store, and I am choosing a few cards to adjust in my deck to improve my decks ability to fight what's been current in the top 8's.

The first card I am looking at for the main deck is Spirit of the Labyrinth. Most players seem to be playing blue decks with lots of extra cantrips to promote Dig Through Time. This card seems like a great way to slow decks down, and cards like Forked Bolt are a lot less played now that TC is banned.

The next thing I wanna discuss is REB/Pyroblast in the board. Currently I have been running 2 Pyroblast in the board, however, I am considering uping the number to 3 to deal with all the Blue decks. Is 3 overkill? I've looked at Punishing Maverick historically, and many players never opted for more than 2 Rebs in an Etutor package.

Last I wanna talk about Aven Mindcensor. This card was a staple in the deck before Thalia was printed, and many players have opted against this card recently. Has anyone tried this card recently? The card has bought me a turn or 2 against Omnitell, and it flys, so equiping it has been a great way to get around Elves or sometimes Mother of Ruins.

Good luck to those daring enough not to play Brainstorm right now!

Here is my current 75 with experimental build for current meta:


---Punishing Dark Maverick---

21 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Spirit of the Labyrinth 2
Aven mindcensor 2
Gadock teeg 1
Scavenging ooze 1
Qasali pridemage 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 24

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Thespian stage 1
Dark depths 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 2
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Gadock teeg 1
Bajaku bog 1

[uncletiggy]

Cabal therapy is only as good as the person casting it in non combo decks. If you're aware of what you need them not to have or have picked up clues to the composition of their hand then its great. If you are naming cards on a value basis its not going to be as good. The nature of the card leads to mixed and biased teating results its a pilot to pilot choice and well worth testing.

[iamajellydonut]

Granting all that for the sake of argument, how does it not also apply to Thoughtseize? If the decks are redundant enough that snagging Show and Tell or Infernal Tutor isn't enough (by which I mean, gets you to turn 2 for Thalia), then how would any discard actually save you in that instance?

The problem is, and I'm going to continue using ANT as an easy example, that you're assuming their opening hand is wincon-or-bust, and that's not the case. After game one, they're no longer hoping for an early kill. They know you have hatebears, and they know it's realistic that you'll get to deploy them, and they incorporate this into however they plan on killing you. So, if you cast a Cabal Therapy naming Infernal Tutor and fail to hit, you don't get to rejoice. You basically just discarded a card and they're still going to happily cantrip and bounce or kill whatever hatebears get in their way. Thoughtseize takes their Brainstorm no matter what. It takes their Lion's Eye Diamond. It takes their Infernal Tutor. Cabal Therapy just takes whatever you randomly guess. You can't even honestly say you can make any educated guesses with Cabal Therapy considering the most you're ever going to see before you cast is a Ponder or a Cabal Therapy of their own. Or even a Brainstorm in response.

Cabal Therapy is a flip of a coin that will at best have you coming out even. Thoughtseize always takes exactly what needs to be removed.

[DudeItsCorey]

Cabal Therapy is only good in a deck like storm because you're calling out what will stop you from going off. Also, you get looks with probe and duress making it easier to hit. Grixis is good too, because you get a free flashback with Young Pyromancer, which also run other discard and probe main. Cabal Therapy is not good in Maverick. Either Thoughtseize or Duress (for heavy burn meta).

[TMagpie]

This isn't an either or debate, but more of a spectrum. First, look at the options.

Thoughtseize => Hits everything, but costs life
Duress => Hits everything but not creatures
Cabal Therapy => Hits everything, but has a chance to miss (but also has chance to hymn)

Thoughtseize hurts you, duress can't hit creatures. Cabal Therapy does both--but with a chance to miss.

What creature are you afraid of that losing 2 life is not worth it? And if it's not a creature--what card are you afraid of that the opponent has 2 in his hand?

ANTS uses Cabal Therapy because some of their problems (like Thalia) can't be hit by Duress and the 2 life matters a LOT. They also use Cabal Therapy in case the countermagic they're afraid of (usually FoW) is in multiples and they don't want to Thoughtseize the opponent only to still be unable to go off that turn.

If you are Maverick running Therapy (Which I don't disagree with, TBH, because we can easily use its flashback) you have to be aware of what it is you're trying to hit and if losing two life is too much to handle in that specific match-up.

[Cambriel]

That's pretty much the best breakdown I think anyone has provided. Thank you TMagpie.

Along those same lines... what creatures *are* we afraid of? More specifically since we're not running discard in the main deck, what creatures are we so afraid of that we would bring Thoughtseize in to counteract them? On first blush, it seems like that would be a very short list and, if so, a reasonable argument for Duress. For the usual suspects, you're going to snipe Show and tell or Sneak Attack first unless they have a backup way to cheat them into play. Something like Shardless Agent only exists in matchups where you're not going to bring discard in. The only thing that really springs to mind is Primeval Titan in 12-Post, but there are probably a few others. I doubt the overlap between legacy creature decks and decks where we would want discard effects is all that large, though.

[DudeItsCorey]

That's pretty much the best breakdown I think anyone has provided. Thank you TMagpie.

Along those same lines... what creatures *are* we afraid of? More specifically since we're not running discard in the main deck, what creatures are we so afraid of that we would bring Thoughtseize in to counteract them? On first blush, it seems like that would be a very short list and, if so, a reasonable argument for Duress. For the usual suspects, you're going to snipe Show and tell or Sneak Attack first unless they have a backup way to cheat them into play. Something like Shardless Agent only exists in matchups where you're not going to bring discard in. The only thing that really springs to mind is Primeval Titan in 12-Post, but there are probably a few others. I doubt the overlap between legacy creature decks and decks where we would want discard effects is all that large, though.

Thoughtseize is there to combat combo. The only creature I can think of (besides like Griselbrand/Emerkul) is TNN. Since he is so hard to deal with once he hits the board. However, I still don't think it's right to board in thoughtseize in that matchup. Between Mother of Runes and SoFi he is very raceable.

[Cambriel]

Thoughtseize is there to combat combo. The only creature I can think of (besides like Griselbrand/Emerkul) is TNN. Since he is so hard to deal with once he hits the board. However, I still don't think it's right to board in thoughtseize in that matchup. Between Mother of Runes and SoFi he is very raceable.

Agreed. I don't sweat TNN, I just find a way to race it. You don't see him all that much these days anyway since blue decks just have stronger things they can be doing like derping out Emrakul or Omniscience.

In a burn heavy meta (of which there are many these days), Duress might be the better choice. I feel like in most rooms I'm a lot more likely to sit down across from Price of Progress than Primeval Titan.

[specialagentcooper]

First post here to the forums, I was looking for some feedback on my GWb list for Worcester. I started playing legacy last year with Maverick and have really enjoyed the creature/land toolbox nature of the deck (coming from pod in modern......rip....).

Creatures (24)
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Gaddok Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
4x Knight of the Reliquary

Spells (13)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Sylvan Library
4x swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Jitte

Lands (23)
4x Windswept Heath
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
4x Wasteland
1x Gaeas Cradle
1x Karakas
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Dryad Arbor

Sideboard plan is the hedge against Omnishow, Miracles, and Storm/Elves

2x Ethersworn Cannoist
1x Thrun the last Troll
2x Choke
1x Krosan Grip
3x Thoughtseize
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Zealous Persecution
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Gaddok Teeg
1x Containment Priest

[bryanzoll]

I would recommend some number of Armageddons if you plan on playing at Worcester. It is 12post heaven.

[Warden]

First post here to the forums, I was looking for some feedback on my GWb list for Worcester. I started playing legacy last year with Maverick and have really enjoyed the creature/land toolbox nature of the deck (coming from pod in modern......rip....).


Welcome! Some comments as your shell is very similar to my most recent list:
1. Scrub does nothing against the decks you wanna beat. He's expendable against those big 3 you list. Useful overall, but I value a decay or something > scryb.
2. 4x Thalia means you're almost bound to see the second one. If you run more spells in the main, such as decay, I really advise trimming down to 3x Thalia MD. Miracles can deal with Thalia (she's good up until a point), Omni doesn't really care once they cast SnT, and Elves laughs at her.
3. Run 2x Scooze in the 75 (I'd prefer maindeck). It beats the delver matchup almost single-handedly.
4. Courser of Kruphix helps against everything right now except elf-combo and pure-combo stuff.
5. Please remember all the little lines of play to throw off opponents. You'll get free wins by baiting less skilled players (always a thing to think about at a larger event). In-response, KotR shenanigans (especially while blocking) is huge.
6. Against Miracles, keep a fetch or two uncracked because that little Dryad Arbor wears equipment and survives Terminus that way.


Sideboard plan is the hedge against Omnishow, Miracles, and Storm/Elves
2x Ethersworn Cannoist ---> omni, elves
1x Gaddok Teeg ---> combo. if you think the room is mainly combo and miracles, bring in Teeg #3 (looks stupid until you absolutely wish you had more)
2x Krosan Grip ---> Miracles, omni
5x Sweepers -----> Against Elves, my experiences tell me 5 is on-point. Some combination of Deluge and ZP. Deluge is the bigger effect and knocks out x/2's like Nettle and DRS for elves. Deluge has more flex against DnT and the mirror, where x-for-1'ing the table basically wins you the game
2x META Call #1: Banishing Light ---> Miracles (jace and other permanents), omni (off SnT), a good "catch-all" card for what you wanna face
3x META Call #2 -------------> you had Thoughtseize here. This could easily be removal, planeswalkers, another sword of X&Y, grave-hate (Scooze #2)

*Choke is sub-par unless you know you're facing greedy U-based delver and SFM things
*Containment Priest is extremely good against a specific set of decks. If you want to stop Omni, I'd recommend just going straight K-grip and B-light, which happen to be better applicable to other matchups.
*The META slot can be a lot of things. I usually go with Thoughtseize but if the room isn't combo (or you don't give a shit about it), planeswalkers, scooze #2 (which I feel all decks need), and equipment make good "safe" calls. Wilt-Leaf-Liege is another good meta-pick, depending upon conditions. Thrun can fit in here.

[Cambriel]

I like maverick as a choice right now, provided you're ready to face a lot of Miracles and probably Elves. If you can navigate those matches, you'll have a good event.

[TMagpie]

I like maverick as a choice right now, provided you're ready to face a lot of Miracles and probably Elves. If you can navigate those matches, you'll have a good event.

This weekend's SCG had Miracles, Omnishow, and Elves as the top 3 decks of the event. This is an ominous sign for team savannah.

[Strassbaw]

This weekend's SCG had Miracles, Omnishow, and Elves as the top 3 decks of the event. This is an ominous sign for team savannah.

Got a top 8 with Punishing Maverick at a LGS this weekend in Philly.

Here is my 75 this week:


---Punishing Dark Maverick---

21 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Aven mindcensor 2
Gadock teeg 2
Qasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 24

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Thespian stage 1
Dark depths 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 3
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1


The Omnitell meta makes Pyroblast an extremely strong card, and miracles is also petty vulnerable to Pyroblast. You are certainly correct about "team savanna" having some trouble at the moment, but the card pool is vast and the decks are not particularly finely tuned to beat Maverick. The newest creature heavy versions of Miracles are worse against Maverick, and the up-and-coming delver decks are good news for us. Keep on playing fair gentlemen!

[specialagentcooper]

Will be posting a more detailed report later, but wanted to share my results from Worcester. Day one I finished at x-2 with the cut to day two being x-3. Ended up in 42nd with a 10-5 record, going 3-3 on day two. It was an awesome tournament, and the deck ran really well. I was happy with some of the changes I made to previously posted decklist. Hopefully will have some time tomorrow to take my notes and post a report....have been driving 18 out of the last 24 hours and need some sleep.

[Cambriel]

This weekend's SCG had Miracles, Omnishow, and Elves as the top 3 decks of the event. This is an ominous sign for team savannah.

Is Omni-Tell that bad for us? I haven't faced it all that much since the newer, leaner Dig Through Time lists became common after Kyoto. Previously, it just wasn't that hard to stick a hate bear and ride it out. I suppose a hard-cast Emrakul does pose a significant problem.

[lavafrogg]

I think you need straight GW to fight all of the miracles and combo. Pyroblast only do so much when they can just counter back.

[Seraphix]

Got a top 8 with Punishing Maverick at a LGS this weekend in Philly.
...


Great to see someone else rocking Punishing Maverick. I haven't played Maverick in 6 months but recently sleeved it up again and have been getting some games in.

Some questions about your list: why don't you play Stoneforge Mystic or Gaea's Cradle? Also, how did the Mindcensors perform?

[Strassbaw]

Great to see someone else rocking Punishing Maverick. I haven't played Maverick in 6 months but recently sleeved it up again and have been getting some games in.

Some questions about your list: why don't you play Stoneforge Mystic or Gaea's Cradle? Also, how did the Mindcensors perform?

I'm glad some one else is enjoying the deck! This list has been very good to me recently. The exclusion of Stoneforge Mystic was for the current meta just after TC and the Bug Delver/patriot lists that were being played right after TC. Currently, I am not afraid of being killed very fast, so SFM Batterskull wasn't the tech I wanted. 2x Jitte is where Pun Mav wants to be as SFM can be very clunky, and BSkull is a 3rd dead card in an opening hand in this deck (DD/arbor). In most cases against the fair decks, 4x Punfire with 4x STP, and 2X Jitte is enough to deal with DNT and various delver builds. Not running a card like Thalia is the hard part, and that's why I like 2 Teeg, 2 Mindcensor to help beat the combo decks and Miracles.

The Mindcensor:

This card has been pretty effective, but I want to test it more against Omnitell. Against miracles, the flash threat is nice, and against elves, this card can beat NO and carry Jitte, so it's an ace against elves. Storm decks struggle against mindcensor because it has flash, and they often don't name Mindcensor with Cabal Therapy. Having 2 haters in the deck is necessary, as Teeg is not enough alone because of the discard and removal in the format. The mindcensor is pretty nice, but I run this card partly because I do not have better options. I want to jam Thalia in the deck, however, the idea of having both Punfire and Thalia out at the same time seems bad, and against many of the same decks, both cards are effective in (miracles, delver mostly). The fact that they are both good against many of the decks makes sideboarded a very big challenge. Perhaps if Mindcensor isn't enough, I'll try Thalia.

Gaea's Cradle:

This card is really cool, but with 21 creatures and the stage/DD combo, I can't fit it. Perhaps with some alterations it could fit, however, I also do not have mega Haymaker cards like Sigarda to GSZ for, so the extra mana would likely go to waste. Also, this mana base isn't the greatest. It's certainly a strong enough mana base to play with, but an 8th fetch may make the deck before cradle without other alterations. Stage and DD are really cool, but something else could work.

Pyroblast:

I didn't want to use this card. It didn't seem like a great option as it doesn't end the game and isn't a 'Silver bullet' but it is a very effective card against Omnitell, Miracles, and all 3 have come into my deck post board against delver decks with the way my deck is designed right now. If I didn't run an Etutor package, I would consider a 4th Pyroblast because of how good that card has been to me the past few months.

The deck is pretty strong right now, however, I don't think it's quite optimized yet. The stage/DD combo was better for me when Jund and Bug were played more often, and I have not untapped KotR 2 times in a game where it mattered in a long time. The ability to get a Grove and beat DnT is probably enough tech for KotR.

[specialagentcooper]

My final list for Worcester was:

Creatures (24)
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells (13)
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands (23)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Gaea’s Cradle
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Thoughtseize
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Krosan Grip
1 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Armageddon

Coming into this tournament I had never played in a legacy event that was 7+ rounds so I wasn’t expecting to post any great results. Overall I am very pleased with finishing in the top 64 and making it to day two, and did not drop a match to any combo decks through the whole weekend. MVP of the weekend was Gaddock Teeg , the advisor did serious work both days, Thalia being the close second, winning games off her innocuous “pay one more”.

Don’t have my notes with me so I might be a little off but here's my report:

• Round 1 vs Reanimator (2-0)
G1: Kept a hand with t1 Deathrite, Karakas and Knight. Opponent won the roll and started the game with a fetch for an underground sea and a ponder. I was thinking storm or reaniamator at this point and proceeded with running out the Deathrite and hoping not to die on his t2. Opponent played land and main phased brainstorm before passing. My t2 I play Karakas and play knight. He end of turn entombs for Griselbrand. His turn he exhumes his Gdaddy and proceeds to draw 7 and pass. I bounce Gdaddy on my turn and take control of the game ending it quick Knight beats.
G2: Board ended up with me with an active knight, opp getting a GDaddy into play, me activating Knight EOT for a karakas, bouncing, and then swinging in for the win
Not the most experienced pilot, he seemed surprised by the ability to fetch for Karakas.
1-0

• Round 2 vs Omnitell (2-0)
G1 & G2 opponent Show and Tells putting Emrakul into to play, first time I put in Karakas and bounced, second time I put in Knight, fetched karakas on my turn and bounced.
2-0

• Round 3 vs Omnitell (2-0)
G1&2 Mr. Teeg and Canonist with karakas stopped any shenanigans from occurring
3-0

• Round 4 vs Burn (1-2)
G1: Opponent wins dice roll t1 Goblin Guide, t2 two more Goblin Guides, I proceed to 0 life quickly
G2: Opponent spends his first turn burning out Mom, I am able to get board stabilized, he has an Eidolon in play and ends up at 2 life unable to cast any more spells, I have a Teeg in play with a Knight and active Mom. Proceed to take my time and swing for lethal.
G3: t1 Goblin guide, t2 Goblin Guide, I am able to stop them with mom and ooze at 10 life. Stoneforge and Jitte are too slow and end up getting burned out with bolts + fireblast
3-1

• Round 5 vs Omnitell (2-0)
G1&G2: Mr. Teeg, Thalia and friends say no to casting your spells. In G2 he Show and telled in an omniscience and me an o-ring which I had in my opener. I targeted the omni, he wished for a wipe away and sent my ring back to hand. I had to call a judge when he tried to pass the turn and ignored the o-ring trigger.
4-1

• Round 6 vs Death and Taxes (2-0)
G1: We both start out with Mom’s and Thalias. I kept him off mana with a Knight and wastelands. An avenger in the air made things look grim, but a stoneforge into jitte plus a fetched cradle turned the race around.
G2: I got a pridemage out on t2 and proceeded to blow up his vial before it got to three. He was stuck on two mana for several turns while I developed my board. Once I got a jitte going and had counters it was too much for him to catch up to.
5-1

• Round 7 vs Miracles (1-2) This was the most skilled opponent I played on Day one, even with the loss, it was the most fun match of the day.
G1: Long game, traded resources, he couldn’t get a top lock going with my decays and pridemages finished me off with angels
G2: Turn 2 Choke slowed him down, too many threats, he was unable to keep up and beats finished him off. I tried slamming down an Armageddon which met a force of will, only time cast all weekend. Thrun however was able to resolve….
G3: Surgicaled all his tops to slow him down. He played tight and fast and got an active Jace going. I couldn’t keep up with the Jace and all the council judgements/stp made Mr. Teeg unable to stick in the early game, he finished me off with angels.
5-2

• Round 8 vs Elves (2-0)
G1: I win the roll and fetch for forest into Deathrite, opponent laughs and says mirror match and proceeds with the same play, so I put him on Elves. T2 I run out Mr. Teeg, who proceeds to say no to any potential Natural Orders. I get in with exalted Pridemage beats, opponent never has an explosive Glimpse turn, shows me three Glimpse in hand and no creatures to cast when I win g1.
G2: My opening seven had a hierarch, canonist, and Mr. Teeg. I run out canonist first, draw a zealous persecution, run out Mr. Teeg, next turn cast ZP. Slow beats from there for the win.
6-2

• Round 9 vs Omnitell (2-1)
G1: He starts pondering, while I play out Mr. Teeg. Got a knight going and tutored up a karakas. Opponent was a ten life and I swung in for exact lethal by wasting my own lands
G2: I keep a hand with Canonist, Karakas and Green Sun. I play out the Canonist on turn 2, turn three cast Green Sun, which he responds to with a DTT. I figure since he played it in respond he was expecting Mr. Teeg and chose his two cards based on that so I get a pridemage. I draw another green sun andtutor up a teeg and leave up Karakas on t4. My opponent proceeded to go into the tank for three minutes or so, and smiles like hes got it figured out. Wipes my canonist to my hand and then casts show and tell….. Canonist back to the field you go…. Opponent put in Omni and passes. I proceed to reduce his life total to zero.
7-2

So yeah, Omnitell 0, Maverick 4 on Day One

DAY TWO
• Round 10 vs Miracles (0-2) This opponent was Brian Braun-Duin. I was a little nervous starting out against him, very intense to play against. Did not feel like I could get anything going either game
G1: We go back and forth, I kept him off a counter top lock with a pridemage, but he eot turn Miracled two turns in a row for 2 angels both times and flew over my board for the win.
G2: I get my board wiped on t3, he gets a Mentor in play and beats me down for the win.
I should have kept in some number of swords in this matchup, and for some reason I went and boarded out my decays? Was flustered after starting out the day like this.
7-3

• Round 11 vs UW Stoneblade (2-1)
G1: Jitte battles with me coming out on top. Turns out that Knight can race True Name. He missed that I could waste my own land when I finished it out g1 swinging for exact lethal
G2: Back & forth trading resources, but he got an active Jace brainstorming each turn. Sylvan Library was the only thing that let me keep up for so long. I missed that I could have give my pridemage pro white and pro black with my two active Moms and swung into Jace past my opponents Stoneforge and Bskull. Very long game that he was able to finish out by EOT casting two dig through times, brainstorming with Jace, equipping V. Clique with Bskull, casting Sword of Feast/Famine, and equipping.
G3: Started with 3 minutes on the clock. I wanted to play for the win and kept an opening seven that had one land, hierarch, double stp, thrun, sword of fire and ice, and stoneforge. I top decked two lands in a row and played out thrun. Opponent thought he was good when he played a Truename on his turn. I played out my sword and passed to him playing a stoneforge and passing. We entered turns at this point. I stp his mystic, equipped up Thrun and started swinging. Thrun with Fire and Ice equipped finished the game out within turns. Felt really good after winning this one.
8-3

• Round 12 vs Esper Deathblade (0-2)
G1 & G2 Opponent force of wills when he should have, gets a B’skull and Clique going. Opposing Deathrites made racing with Knights impossible, felt on the back foot the entire time. Skilled opponent.
8-4

• Round 13 vs RG Lands (2-0)
G1: Turn one deathrite, turn two wasted my opponent off coloured mana. Played out a giant knight and ooze, and started swinging. My opponent conceded g1 quickly
G2: My opponent t1 gambled, ended up with a Tabernacle in the gy. Turn 2 he tapped out to cast a life from the loam. I had surgical in hand and removed all the loams from the game. From there I got two active Moms going, he played out the Tabernacle, my dice went to the top of library to make sure I wouldn’t miss my upkeeps. Once I had a knight out and had a clock going my opponent conceded the match.
9-4

• Round 14 vs Storm (2-1)
G1: Turn two Thalia gg a few turns later. Didn’t see anything but ponder’s and petals, sideboarded for reanimator in G2
G2: Had a pridemage out on turn 2 with beats following, and had a surgical extraction in my hand feeling pretty safe if he tried to go off. My opponent started his turn with a ponder and then started chaining rituals, and cast an LED. I didn’t see any problems yet and was holding up my surgical. He cracked his LED and put what I thought was a dark ritual and past in flames into the graveyard, I thought he would try to find a tutor with his cantrips that had flashback, so I didn’t do anything and said ok to flashing back past in flames. Then he recast his rituals and flashes back a tendrils……. Was not happy with myself that I didn’t pay enough attention to notice that he had put it in the graveyard when he cracked his LED…. Proceeded to G3
G3: I resideboarded for the storm match up, and had an opener with two thalias. My opponent pondering twice t2, one with a petal after probing me, so I assumed he was looking for a therapy. When he passed the turn I knew it was looking good and slammed down the thalia. Next turn I drew Mr. Teeg and slammed him down to prevent any massacres. Game ended quickly after that.
10-4

• Round 15 vs RUG Delver (1-2) (Jake Mondello)
G1: I won the roll and started with a Mom. Opponent cracked a foothills and bolted Mom. I put him on RUG Delver at that point and started playing around daze and stifle. I stabilized the board after getting a 5/5 Knight down and stopped his mongoose beats. Proceeded to take my time and attack accordingly for the win.
G2: We traded wastelands back and forth in the early turns, he didn’t get a threat going until t4 or so with double mongeese. I had an ooze down but couldn’t get it past a 3/3 and I didn’t want to trade with the mongeese. I was finally able to stabilize with a 4/4 ooze 8 life. My opponent played out a Sylvan Library and passed the turn. I had been sitting with a decay all game and had finally found a target. With four mana available I played out an ooze with my two bayous, leaving up a plains and hierarch to cast the decay…. loooooong day….. Had to pass the turn, my opponent drew two extra cards off of library to have three cards in hand passed. I decayed the library on my turn and passed, EOT bolt 2/2 ooze. He went dismember on my 4/4 ooze, swung in with mongeese and bolted for lethal. Should have had this one I think if I stopped him from reloading with library.
G3: Started out getting a board of two deathrites, thalia, and dryad arbor. Opponent cast rough//tumble. Couldn’t recover and got tempoed out in RUG fashion.

Final Record of 10-5

Final Thoughts: The deck felt powerful all weekend long and had all the right cards to fight the field. I had added an extra ooze and removed a Scryb Ranger before the event. I missed it several times when cliques were attacking while I had an ooze doing nothing on the ground. I would probably add it back to the main and move the second ooze to the sideboard and take out the Armageddon. From the sideboard I was really impressed with the Surgical Extraction. I go back and forth between having a Sigarda or Thrun in the 75, Thrun will be staying for now after winning several games on the weekend. Had a great time overall, was happy with my play, and will hopefully learn from the mistakes I did make.

[Cambriel]

Awesome report. Really happy to see Omni-Tell folding so many matches in a row.

[Strassbaw]

Hello Maverick players.

I have been playing a Punishing Maverick with Deatheite Shaman for years and one card that has been an auto include in the sideboard has been Reclamation Sage.

Reclamation sage has been an Ace sideboard option for me for years now. This card has been the additional pridemage that when I search for it, it grants a simple and effective 2 for 1 that Pridemage wouldn't. In fact, I cannot think of a game where I opted for Pridemage over Reclamation Sage games 2 and 3 with Greensun when there was a troublesome artifact or enchantment in play. Why is it that many players have not opted for this card. I do not often play Abzan Maverick, but maybe the Decay partly nullifys the Rec Sage option? With Omnitell back in the picture, I think the sage is certainly worth another look for many players.

[Moroklumpen]

Here's a thing I've never quite managed to decide on even after playing Maverick for quite some time:

When you're on the play against an unknown opponent and your hand doesn't really demand one or the other, do you prefer to lead with Mother of Runes or a mana guy?

[Strassbaw]

Here's a thing I've never quite managed to decide on even after playing Maverick for quite some time:

When you're on the play against an unknown opponent and your hand doesn't really demand one or the other, do you prefer to lead with Mother of Runes or a mana guy?

Most often, I will lead with a mana dork. Mother of Runes untaping is best when you have a creature worth protecting on board. The mana dork allows you to play more spells , or more expensive spells sooner, so the greater board presence will be more advantages than untaping Mom T1. I will only lead with Mom by choice when I have a T2 creature in hand that will likely win the game in the MU (perhaps Thalia, Teeg, SFM). Ramping for mana has been more often the correct line of play in most games I have played, even enough to make me choose a GSZ for an Arbor T1 over mom T1 especially against delver decks.

[TMagpie]

Here's a thing I've never quite managed to decide on even after playing Maverick for quite some time:

When you're on the play against an unknown opponent and your hand doesn't really demand one or the other, do you prefer to lead with Mother of Runes or a mana guy?

Mana dork ALWAYS when blind--except for one occasion.

Green Sun's Zenith is the mana dork in hand.
You also have a Mom in hand.
You don't have a threat in hand (just plows/equipment/wasteland + 2-3 lands)
You run Deathrite Shaman instead of Noble Hierarch (or including)

In which case, you run Mom first, zenith for Deathrite next, followed by support spells on turn 3.

Otherwise always run the mana dork first when blind.

[LOLWut]

Hello Maverick players.

I have been playing a Punishing Maverick with Deatheite Shaman for years and one card that has been an auto include in the sideboard has been Reclamation Sage.

Reclamation sage has been an Ace sideboard option for me for years now. This card has been the additional pridemage that when I search for it, it grants a simple and effective 2 for 1 that Pridemage wouldn't. In fact, I cannot think of a game where I opted for Pridemage over Reclamation Sage games 2 and 3 with Greensun when there was a troublesome artifact or enchantment in play. Why is it that many players have not opted for this card. I do not often play Abzan Maverick, but maybe the Decay partly nullifys the Rec Sage option? With Omnitell back in the picture, I think the sage is certainly worth another look for many players.

Elves excepted, Pridemage is just better if you have access to :w:. Sage has the advantage of a 2-for-1 like you said, but it's usually outweighed by Pridemage's advantages. Namely, blowing stuff up at instant speed, GSZing for one less mana, and being able to fetch it and beat with it until you need its ability instead of having to wait until the troublesome artifact/enchantment appears.

It's obviously not a bad card, and I'm sure one can encounter times when Sage's 2-for-1 matters more than Pridemage's strengths, but I firmly believe those times to be strongly in the minority. Harmonic Sliver existed for years and was mostly viewed as inferior to Pridemage. Sure, it's different from Sage by having 1 power, requiring :w:, and carrying the risk that Sage doesn't have of blowing up your own artifact/enchantment if the opponent has none, but I think it's a suitable analogy.

Pridemage hitting for 3, not having 1 toughness, and granting Exalted goes a way to negate Sage's 2-for-1 bonus point, too.

[Rekk]

Elves excepted, Pridemage is just better if you have access to :w:. Sage has the advantage of a 2-for-1 like you said, but it's usually outweighed by Pridemage's advantages. Namely, blowing stuff up at instant speed, GSZing for one less mana, and being able to fetch it and beat with it until you need its ability instead of having to wait until the troublesome artifact/enchantment appears.

It's obviously not a bad card, and I'm sure one can encounter times when Sage's 2-for-1 matters more than Pridemage's strengths, but I firmly believe those times to be strongly in the minority. Harmonic Sliver existed for years and was mostly viewed as inferior to Pridemage. Sure, it's different from Sage by having 1 power, requiring :w:, and carrying the risk that Sage doesn't have of blowing up your own artifact/enchantment if the opponent has none, but I think it's a suitable analogy.

Pridemage hitting for 3, not having 1 toughness, and granting Exalted goes a way to negate Sage's 2-for-1 bonus point, too.

its not "just better" by a large margin. Pithing needle, humility, revoker and that wasn't much time thinking on it

[iamajellydonut]

humility ... and that wasn't much time thinking on it

Clearly.

Anyway, Qasali Pridemage is in no way "strictly better" (figuratively speaking) than Reclamation Sage. Being a two-for-one is far more significant than you're making it out to be. Yes, Harmonic Sliver existed, but it was also a piece of shit for exactly the reasons you mentioned. One power is the difference between Lightning Bolt and Shock, and it's also your defense of Qasali Pridemage.

The fact of the matter is just that Qasali Pridemage fits better in a maindeck when you're unsure whether there will be relevant targets presented.

Also, to answer Strassbaw's question that wasn't actually phrased as a question, I too am a general fan of Reclamation Sage, but it, unfortunately, has yet to make it into any finished sideboard of mine. Reason being that there's honestly just more tons more deserving things to put in the sideboard. Also, being a trigger, Reclamation Sage shouldn't be your go-to guy for defeating Omni. I'd definitely bring it in if I had one, but they can easily win around it in most circumstances.

[Strassbaw]

Clearly.

Anyway, Qasali Pridemage is in no way "strictly better" (figuratively speaking) than Reclamation Sage. Being a two-for-one is far more significant than you're making it out to be. Yes, Harmonic Sliver existed, but it was also a piece of shit for exactly the reasons you mentioned. One power is the difference between Lightning Bolt and Shock, and it's also your defense of Qasali Pridemage.

The fact of the matter is just that Qasali Pridemage fits better in a maindeck when you're unsure whether there will be relevant targets presented.

Also, to answer Strassbaw's question that wasn't actually phrased as a question, I too am a general fan of Reclamation Sage, but it, unfortunately, has yet to make it into any finished sideboard of mine. Reason being that there's honestly just more tons more deserving things to put in the sideboard. Also, being a trigger, Reclamation Sage shouldn't be your go-to guy for defeating Omni. I'd definitely bring it in if I had one, but they can easily win around it in most circumstances.

Thanks for the feedback lolwut, jelly doughnut and Rekk.


Most often I have opted for 1 pridemage effect in the main deck and sage in the board, however, I think I may have over valued Pridemage against omni game one, and I am currently running 2 in my most recent winning lists which may change. The sage has not only hit Pithing needles that have named pridemage, and Cursed totems, but it has also been the artifact kill, and Jitte equipment bearer all in one card. In fact, getting a pridemage for 1 less mana with GSZ seems to be an unrealistic advantage. If you need to activate pridemage (losing your 2/2 exalated body) that turn, it's the same mana as Sage and you lose the body. If killing equipments, or CB (cards that cost more than 1-2 are better CB killers) is prevalent in your metagame than sage is worth considering.

When Sage fights Omnitell, I think you raise a good point about how ineffective this card may become because of wish. This is a disappointing realisation I had because Dig Through Time is also an instant, and they can resolve that spell finding all types of good stuff for free while Rec Sage trigger is on the stack. This is truly a bummer! I'll post results against the deck with how I'm outfitted currently, but I think without Thalia right now, I may be dead in the water against Omnitell (even with Rebs and Etutor canonist in board).


Ps. @ Rekk, I may have read it wrong, but Rec Sage does not kill humility unfortunately if that was a positive side of the card some players may have seen. Humilty makes sage a 1/1 with no effects because it's an ETB trigger not an "As it enters the battlefield" effect.

[iamajellydonut]

When Sage fights Omnitell, I think you raise a good point about how ineffective this card may become because of wish. This is a disappointing realisation I had because Dig Through Time is also an instant, and they can resolve that spell finding all types of good stuff for free while Rec Sage trigger is on the stack. This is truly a bummer! I'll post results against the deck with how I'm outfitted currently, but I think without Thalia right now, I may be dead in the water against Omnitell (even with Rebs and Etutor canonist in board).

It's not a certainty that they'll have the kill in response, but considering the limited amount of relevant pressure Maverick can apply, it's relatively common. I mean, again, it's definitely worth boarding in Reclamation Sage against OmniShow if you have one in your board. It's just not Krosan Grip. You can't pack it in, leave yourself with opportunity to put it into play, and consider the job done. It just better than nothing and can get the job done with what could be considered a reasonable frequency. Mainly you need to rely on them either having a shitty hand or you need to have an Ethersworn Canonist in conjunction.

With all that in mind, it's actually worth noting that Qasali Pridemage is actually better than Reclamation Sage off of Show and Tell since you can pop it in response to whatever they cast first.

[Moroklumpen]

With all that in mind, it's actually worth noting that Qasali Pridemage is actually better than Reclamation Sage off of Show and Tell since you can pop it in response to whatever they cast first.

Except for Emrakul.

Basically, if they can go off at instant speed then Pridemage is better; I faced that problem when I faced S&T with Dredge and happily plopped down Ashen Rider before losing to Release the Ants. If they need to cast a sorcery or a non-flashy creature then an EtB creature is better since you get priority before the stack empties. So it's important to know your meta and know what the different versions of the stock decks are most likely to play.

[Cambriel]

Well, these days it's a gamble either way. Sneak and Show has been almost totally replaced by Omni-Tell, which will either hard cast Emrakul or a Cunning Wish depending. That match revolves a lot less around sticking a Sage or Pridemage than it does Thalia, Ethersworn Canonist, and Containment Priest.

[LOLWut]

Anyway, Qasali Pridemage is in no way "strictly better" (figuratively speaking) than Reclamation Sage. Being a two-for-one is far more significant than you're making it out to be. Yes, Harmonic Sliver existed, but it was also a piece of shit for exactly the reasons you mentioned. One power is the difference between Lightning Bolt and Shock, and it's also your defense of Qasali Pridemage.

Actually, my defense of Pridemage was
Namely, blowing stuff up at instant speed, GSZing for one less mana, and being able to fetch it and beat with it until you need its ability instead of having to wait until the troublesome artifact/enchantment appears.

One power, and the other combat stuff, are things in the realm of Sage's 2-for-1, that mitigate that one advantage, and tip the scales a little more. It's a minor detail instead of your whole argument regarding Sage/Sliver.

I'm very skeptical that 1 point of power (Sliver's :w: is irrelevant in Maverick and you won't be wanting for targets on the opposite side of the table in the match-ups you bring it in, so that's the only different between the two) turns the inferior Sliver into the candidate Sage. I'm also skeptical that that 1 point of power is more relevant than things like: not needing 4 (or even 5 with Thalia) mana to GSZ for it, knowing you'll need it in the match-up and not having to hold up the GSZ and lose beatface time, being able to destroy equipment cast and equipped in the same turn, being able to response to things shrouded with Greaves or whatever, popping it on their turn when you really need to against Painter's Servant, Helm of Obedience, Counterbalance, etc, and other shtuff. Plus, Torpor Orb is gonna hose your brains out :laugh:

[Warden]

Krosan Grip is where I'd rather be. 2:2 with QPM and Scooze and just run like 2 grips + QPM #3 in the side

[TMagpie]

Rec Sage is card advantage--don't think of it as anything else. Its first goal is to allow you to make gains and value trades vs slow decks.

I ran sex monkey before rec sage's printing. And if it wasn't for show and tell (either variant) I'd probably be running sex monkey over rec sage for the extra toughness.

I currently run 4 Qasali (main) 2 Abrupt (Side) 1 Rec Sage (Side)

[DudeItsCorey]

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library. It took me a while, but I find Sylvan Library to be green's "brainstorm". The effect is way too powerful that I would never want to run less than two (maybe 1 main and 1 side for heavy combo/tempo metas). What is the value in Courser? I tried testing him and was never overly thrilled to hard cast it and would never find myself green sun zennithing for him either. The only time he has been exceptional was against other fair grindy matchups, which I feel is already our strong suit. So more of a "win more" scenario. I know Herzog is the innovator that placed Courser in the 75, and a lot of people take his word as gold, but can people tell me why they Courser is so good? Maybe there is something that I am missing. I'm currently running two scavenging ooze mainboard and would think that I could go down on 1 if there is value in including Courser.

[Warden]

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library. It took me a while, but I find Sylvan Library to be green's "brainstorm". The effect is way too powerful that I would never want to run less than two (maybe 1 main and 1 side for heavy combo/tempo metas). What is the value in Courser? I tried testing him and was never overly thrilled to hard cast it and would never find myself green sun zennithing for him either. The only time he has been exceptional was against other fair grindy matchups, which I feel is already our strong suit. So more of a "win more" scenario. I know Herzog is the innovator that placed Courser in the 75, and a lot of people take his word as gold, but can people tell me why they Courser is so good? Maybe there is something that I am missing. I'm currently running two scavenging ooze mainboard and would think that I could go down on 1 if there is value in including Courser.

Not to troll, but have you even played with Courser? He's fantastic against a fair and delver heavy meta. He net gains you life while blocking and ANYTHING involving lands boosts you a ton. I've won games thanks to Courser stabilizing me at ~5 life....floating me back to ~10+. Courser only gets better with top/library/KotR/fetches.
Right now, the top decks are heavily stacked against Maverick, but it doesn't take away from his value against everyone else.

[iamajellydonut]

So there is a question I would like to revisit. I want to know why Maverick players are all about Courser of Kruphix? I'm finding lists that are playing it over say a second Sylvan Library.

If it's a straight up choice between Courser or Library, Library wins. Every time. But if you're looking at Library number two or number three, the idea of a Sylvan Library on legs becomes far more appealing. And that's what Courser of Kruphix is. He's card filter, card advantage, and he's got legs. The only real downside is that he's not a 2/2 at 2cc.

[Cambriel]

Courser + Library go together better than peanut butter and chocolate. It feels like cheating.

[DudeItsCorey]

Not to troll, but have you even played with Courser? He's fantastic against a fair and delver heavy meta. He net gains you life while blocking and ANYTHING involving lands boosts you a ton. I've won games thanks to Courser stabilizing me at ~5 life....floating me back to ~10+. Courser only gets better with top/library/KotR/fetches.
Right now, the top decks are heavily stacked against Maverick, but it doesn't take away from his value against everyone else.

See again, we are already set up to beat delver and other fair decks, so to me Courser seems like a win more. I would be more inclined to add 2x Spirit of the Lab to the mainboard to combat miracles, omniscience, elves, and other decks that we have trouble with. I don't know, I'll play test with him more and see if I can see what everyone else sees.

[TMagpie]

See again, we are already set up to beat delver and other fair decks, so to me Courser seems like a win more. I would be more inclined to add 2x Spirit of the Lab to the mainboard to combat miracles, omniscience, elves, and other decks that we have trouble with. I don't know, I'll play test with him more and see if I can see what everyone else sees.

Courser has two main strengths.

1st: Think of a fair creature that sees plenty of play other than Goyf, Knight and Ooze that beats Courser, then think about that same creature in a game state with little to no graveyards. Courser bullies most creatures in Legacy that are not outright played to be massive all while gaining life and drawing cards.

2nd: He draws cards vs miracles, has 4 toughness + lifegain vs burn, is bigger than almost everything D&T/BUG has, gives you a fatty vs grave hate, etc... He kind of does everything you want your 61st card to do.

Think of him as like a fatter Scryb Ranger. Looks crappy, but after playing with it for a while you realize its much more dynamic than it appears. The drawback is that its card power is kinda of the same as Scryb Ranger.

[meso94]

Hello Maverick Players,

I am still piloting Punishing Dark Maverick with a good deal of success. Recently, Omnitell has made a big impact at my local game store, and I am choosing a few cards to adjust in my deck to improve my decks ability to fight what's been current in the top 8's.

The first card I am looking at for the main deck is Spirit of the Labyrinth. Most players seem to be playing blue decks with lots of extra cantrips to promote Dig Through Time. This card seems like a great way to slow decks down, and cards like Forked Bolt are a lot less played now that TC is banned.

The next thing I wanna discuss is REB/Pyroblast in the board. Currently I have been running 2 Pyroblast in the board, however, I am considering uping the number to 3 to deal with all the Blue decks. Is 3 overkill? I've looked at Punishing Maverick historically, and many players never opted for more than 2 Rebs in an Etutor package.

Last I wanna talk about Aven Mindcensor. This card was a staple in the deck before Thalia was printed, and many players have opted against this card recently. Has anyone tried this card recently? The card has bought me a turn or 2 against Omnitell, and it flys, so equiping it has been a great way to get around Elves or sometimes Mother of Ruins.

Good luck to those daring enough not to play Brainstorm right now!

Here is my current 75 with experimental build for current meta:


---Punishing Dark Maverick---

21 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Spirit of the Labyrinth 2
Aven mindcensor 2
Gadock teeg 1
Scavenging ooze 1
Qasali pridemage 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 24

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Thespian stage 1
Dark depths 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 2
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Gadock teeg 1
Bajaku bog 1

I really like this deck...I'm new to this forum and searching for a deck, non blue cause i don't like that colour, that fit my style...I found this and Nic Fit deck (both with punishing fire variant)...I ask you some questions:

- is this deck viable in this metagame?? What are his best and worse MU??
- what is his best conformation??
- the style of the deck is like a Death & Taxes or i totally do not understand the goal of the deck??

thanks a lot for your answers and sorry if my english is not so good, but i'm from Italy

[Strassbaw]

I really like this deck...I'm new to this forum and searching for a deck, non blue cause i don't like that colour, that fit my style...I found this and Nic Fit deck (both with punishing fire variant)...I ask you some questions:

- is this deck viable in this metagame?? What are his best and worse MU??
- what is his best conformation??
- the style of the deck is like a Death & Taxes or i totally do not understand the goal of the deck??

thanks a lot for your answers and sorry if my english is not so good, but i'm from Italy

Hello Meso94 and thanks for asking about the list. In the past I have had a lot of success with Punishing Maverick, and today I am still do very well with the list after a few meta adjustments to the deck. When Treasure Cruise was a card, UR delver was a huge part of the meta, and I played Stone Forge Mystic with Batterskull. SFM is not usually a card I want in this deck, as Punishing fire beats most fair decks, but at that time Batterskull SFM was correct.

Now I have to adjust to the decks people are playing now , and I have opted to play both Thalia and Punishing fire in the same deck for a few weeks now. I have done very well with the inclusion of Thalia against Show and Tell and Miracles, while still doing well against the various delver decks. I have not had time to test Thalia in other matchups, but I'm sure she can be useful even if she is a Non-Bo with Punishing Fire Combo.

This is the 75 I will be running for the Philadelphia Area Legacy Series:

---Punishing Dark Maverick---

22 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
Gadock teeg 2
Qasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 23

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Cavern of souls 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 3
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1


I dropped the DD/Stage for cavern of Souls, and I dropped Mindcensor once I added Thalia into the deck. The Pyroblast have been amazing in this meta, as most decks are blue now and the deck runs plenty of Red sources. This deck is 100% viable in my eyes, just be careful as to how you play your lands because the mana base is fragile. 4C pun fire decks are inherently weak to wasteland so play carefully. Good luck and please feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

[meso94]

Hello Meso94 and thanks for asking about the list. In the past I have had a lot of success with Punishing Maverick, and today I am still do very well with the list after a few meta adjustments to the deck. When Treasure Cruise was a card, UR delver was a huge part of the meta, and I played Stone Forge Mystic with Batterskull. SFM is not usually a card I want in this deck, as Punishing fire beats most fair decks, but at that time Batterskull SFM was correct.

Now I have to adjust to the decks people are playing now , and I have opted to play both Thalia and Punishing fire in the same deck for a few weeks now. I have done very well with the inclusion of Thalia against Show and Tell and Miracles, while still doing well against the various delver decks. I have not had time to test Thalia in other matchups, but I'm sure she can be useful even if she is a Non-Bo with Punishing Fire Combo.

This is the 75 I will be running for the Philadelphia Area Legacy Series:

---Punishing Dark Maverick---

22 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
Gadock teeg 2
Qasali pridemage 2
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15 Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 4
Umezawa's jitte 2
Life from the loam 1

Lands 23

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Cavern of souls 1


E-turor board:
Pyroblast 3
Enlightened tutor 2
Choke 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Null Rod 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered explosives 1
Oblivion ring 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1


I dropped the DD/Stage for cavern of Souls, and I dropped Mindcensor once I added Thalia into the deck. The Pyroblast have been amazing in this meta, as most decks are blue now and the deck runs plenty of Red sources. This deck is 100% viable in my eyes, just be careful as to how you play your lands because the mana base is fragile. 4C pun fire decks are inherently weak to wasteland so play carefully. Good luck and please feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

I have other questions about what are best and worse MU for this particular deck, and why choose it over other version like GW??

[lavafrogg]

You really don't want to play punishing fire and Thalia in the same deck. Especially as a 4 of. Punishing fire recursion is super expensive as it is(3 per damage) and at 4 per shit you will not be able to do anything else.

The straight GW version is better against miracles even though the red version has blasts in the board. More pride ages and haddock teegs are the best way to beat miracles. The same is true for combo with Thalia's, teegs and ober bear.

The punishng fires were always for the creature mirrors and the punishing version was created to win the maverick late game and as a more efficient way to kill an active mother of runes. The blasts were more to force through chokes than to counter anything.

Maverick in general is extremely mana hungry so I don't know why you would want to open yourself up to more color screw(also why the red version usually main decked a loam).

So: GW better against combo, miracles, random.dec, midrange aggro

Punishing fire better in the mirror.

Both versions are doing against delver decks and both versions still have a bad miracles matchup, hence why no one plays maverick.

[meso94]

You really don't want to play punishing fire and Thalia in the same deck. Especially as a 4 of. Punishing fire recursion is super expensive as it is(3 per damage) and at 4 per shit you will not be able to do anything else.

The straight GW version is better against miracles even though the red version has blasts in the board. More pride ages and haddock teegs are the best way to beat miracles. The same is true for combo with Thalia's, teegs and ober bear.

The punishng fires were always for the creature mirrors and the punishing version was created to win the maverick late game and as a more efficient way to kill an active mother of runes. The blasts were more to force through chokes than to counter anything.

Maverick in general is extremely mana hungry so I don't know why you would want to open yourself up to more color screw(also why the red version usually main decked a loam).

So: GW better against combo, miracles, random.dec, midrange aggro

Punishing fire better in the mirror.

Both versions are doing against delver decks and both versions still have a bad miracles matchup, hence why no one plays maverick.

With those informations i think that generally the GW Version is more powerful and reliable with differents MU, i can't choose between this deck and Nic Fit, what deck do you think is much better in this meta?? I'm new to legacy, pass from Modern (cause of lots of speculations) in those days and i'm thinking of what deck cuold be mine...i really hate bleu deck, i can't play with them...any suggestions?? (sorry for this little off-topic)

[DudeItsCorey]

It's too bad that Worldspine Wurm only trigger upon death and not when it leaves the battlefield. That would be a great anti terminus/swords to Plowshares card. If that was the case then I could see Maverick taking the Natural Order route. I saw elves resolve a Ruric Thar against Omni show and they Omni couldn't deal. Even though that isn't the worst matchup for us, it would be a good way to battle the meta. Progenitus for the fair matchups, Ruric Thar for the combo and Worldspine Wurm for the contol. If only we had a giant green monster that left dudes behind after they leave the battlefield.

[Seraphix]

With those informations i think that generally the GW Version is more powerful and reliable with differents MU, i can't choose between this deck and Nic Fit, what deck do you think is much better in this meta?? I'm new to legacy, pass from Modern (cause of lots of speculations) in those days and i'm thinking of what deck cuold be mine...i really hate bleu deck, i can't play with them...any suggestions?? (sorry for this little off-topic)

I don't think it has been clearly stated, but I don't think you want to be playing a straight GW list today. Deathrite Shaman plus discard and sweepers in the sideboard go a long way in shoring up some of the deck's weaknesses. You can get away with as few as 1 or 2 black duals to play this splash, so the deckbuilding cost is fairly low while the upside is very high.


It's too bad that Worldspine Wurm only trigger upon death and not when it leaves the battlefield. That would be a great anti terminus/swords to Plowshares card. If that was the case then I could see Maverick taking the Natural Order route. I saw elves resolve a Ruric Thar against Omni show and they Omni couldn't deal. Even though that isn't the worst matchup for us, it would be a good way to battle the meta. Progenitus for the fair matchups, Ruric Thar for the combo and Worldspine Wurm for the contol. If only we had a giant green monster that left dudes behind after they leave the battlefield.

Soooo....Thragtusk? :cool:

[Warden]

It's too bad that Worldspine Wurm only trigger upon death and not when it leaves the battlefield. That would be a great anti terminus/swords to Plowshares card. If that was the case then I could see Maverick taking the Natural Order route. I saw elves resolve a Ruric Thar against Omni show and they Omni couldn't deal. Even though that isn't the worst matchup for us, it would be a good way to battle the meta. Progenitus for the fair matchups, Ruric Thar for the combo and Worldspine Wurm for the contol. If only we had a giant green monster that left dudes behind after they leave the battlefield.

I've run NO in the sideboard but you really hedge your bets against fair stuff. The NO --> Pro/Ruric/something requires you to live until turn 3 or 4. Omni is frustrating because it can just win before you dump ruric on the field. There's no way you can muscle Ruric out faster.

For Miracles, I sometimes wish I had Ruric but in reality he doesn't do a whole lot. If they swords or terminus, they can afford 6 life. Jace bounces him for days. Entreat can still lethal you with him on the table.

I can't tell if Maverick needs to evolve in another direction or go back to its roots with focusing on denial & bear plans. The meta appears to be against that 'in-between' midrange plan (more recent lists with decay and fewer dedicated bears). I love this deck against a fair room. The minute I see control or combo, I'm screwed.

[DudeItsCorey]

@Warden - I think if you were to build around Natural Order you would need more mana dorks and hold them off in the beginning with Thalia, Spirit of the Lab and teeg. Probably forgo the black route in favor for bears and NO into your wincon. However, terminus seems to be the thing that would hold back this strategy.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=86011 Here is an interesting list where they use Living Wish. I would tweak somethings like add Phyrexian Revoker, Canonist and Karakas to the Board. I would also take out Batterskull and add Sylvan Library to the main. An interesting thing would be to add something like Shriekmaw to the board as it can kill Emerkul.

[Warden]

@Warden - I think if you were to build around Natural Order you would need more mana dorks and hold them off in the beginning with Thalia, Spirit of the Lab and teeg. Probably forgo the black route in favor for bears and NO into your wincon. However, terminus seems to be the thing that would hold back this strategy.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=86011 Here is an interesting list where they use Living Wish. I would tweak somethings like add Phyrexian Revoker, Canonist and Karakas to the Board. I would also take out Batterskull and add Sylvan Library to the main. An interesting thing would be to add something like Shriekmaw to the board as it can kill Emerkul.

You don't want Thalia with NO. It complicates things considerably. In the GP:NJ trial I won, I generally traded Thalias for NO straight up and pulled some irrelevant 1-2 slots for the target. But again, you need a meta that lets you play NO in the first place (fair decks lacking countermagic is a nice mix. The current blend of top decks is not too favorable).

As for the deck you posted, Idk if I like wish in that spot. Feels too slow and too dependent upon having it go through.

[lavafrogg]

With those informations i think that generally the GW Version is more powerful and reliable with differents MU, i can't choose between this deck and Nic Fit, what deck do you think is much better in this meta?? I'm new to legacy, pass from Modern (cause of lots of speculations) in those days and i'm thinking of what deck cuold be mine...i really hate bleu deck, i can't play with them...any suggestions?? (sorry for this little off-topic)

Neither are super good at the moment but maverick is much better than durdle.deck

[Warden]

I made top 8 at mythic today. Small 5 round event. Will post a list sometime soon.

Key notes:
1. 2x Sensei's Top instead of 2x Sylvan Library worked wonderfully, as predicted
2. KotR is still my girl kicking asses and taking names
3. Sword of Light and Shadow was a champ today

[ironclad8690]

If your metagame is infested with Grixis Dig, Miracles, and Omnitell like mine is, I recommend running 2 Gaddock Teeg, and maybe even 1 more out of the board. Another thing that I have been contemplating is going back to a Viciano/Aether Vial list with RIP in the board. I have not experimented by using RIP vs these tasigur/gurmag/snapcaster/dig through time decks, but I think it might be worthwhile. Also shardless is still a thing, and I have always hated getting RIP'ed when I played any DRS/Goyf deck.

Another thing that would be nice about the vial list is the mana stability to run Cavern of Souls. Ethersworn canonist is becoming increasingly important to resolve these days as people are shifting away from sneak attack and towards omniscience. Weathered wayfarer and knight can take care of a shown/told emrakul if they go for that plan.

I dunno just some ideas I have been mulling over. Thoughts?

[Fl0do]

I made top 8 at mythic today. Small 5 round event. Will post a list sometime soon.

Key notes:
1. 2x Sensei's Top instead of 2x Sylvan Library worked wonderfully, as predicted
2. KotR is still my girl kicking asses and taking names
3. Sword of Light and Shadow was a champ today

Which matchups did play against?

[Cambriel]

IKey notes:
1. 2x Sensei's Top instead of 2x Sylvan Library worked wonderfully, as predicted


So what was it you liked better about Top? I'm intrigued.

[Warden]

I won't write a book, but I will give insight. First, I haven't played magic in about a month. Had 3 weddings across 3 concurrent weekends, so that's where my head and money have been. Felt good to go back to the game and sling some cardboard. I still openly doubt Maverick in the grand 'Murican meta but as long as you pair against fair decks, Maverick is always in-contention. I was really 50-50 on going, but it looks like I made the right call.

Mythic Games - June / Top 8 / GWb Dark Maverick / Chris Scagnelli

Creatures
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes

3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddok Teeg

4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Courser of Kruphix

Non-Creatures
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Abrupt Decay

2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow

Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Forest
1x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Gaeas Cradle
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor

SB:
2x Ethersworn Cannoist
2x Krosan Grip
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Toxic Deluge
3x Natural Order
1x Progenitus
1x Ruric Thar
1x Gaddok Teeg
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
=======

Quickly from memory, some scraps for lifetotals as reference.

R1. Jeremy with 4C Delver (URbg) / W
-I take game 1 by turning things around. He's got delver, pyro, drs, daze, force, pierce, bstorm, ponder, and some amount of Dig. I know DRS holds his mana together, so wasteland + nuking DRS is key.
-I keep an opening hand of double wasteland + fetch + stuff. He turn 1 volc -> delver. I waste. Usually this pays off but he blind flips. Lays sea. cantrips or something. I waste that Sea. I can't assemble mana as he DOES has FoW and then Forked Bolt. This is the cliche "turn 1 delver - protect it - win" godhand. My life reads: 20, 19, 16, 13, 12, 9, 6, scoop. He's at 18 :/
-I play tight and manage to Scooze + SFM. The game isn't quick but at some point (my turn 5? 6?), I gain momentum and never look back. I stabilize at 10, then fall to 9. But he plummets from 19 to 16 to 14 to 6. In this final game his pokemon cards (pyro tokens) were the only thing holding him back from imminent death. At the later turns, I have a big Knight. I remember just swinging away because he needed those tokens if he were to grind-win/outpace my big guns.
*KotR were consistently double digits against him all match.

R2. Ben with Red Painter / L
-I know Ben is on painter. Kept a fetchland heavy hand hoping to "make fetch happen" but he turn 1 has the blood moon. He spills his deck in terms of components: I see recruiters, servant, grindstone, SSG, plateaus.
-Game 2 I bring in the vengeance and kick the shit out of him. He scooped very quickly (i guess deeming he's got nothing).
-Game 3 was ugly. I mull into decent stuff. My notes read "stupid". He got a fast magus. I am a turn behind as I have Dryad Arbor, who is a 1/1 mountain dude. Dryad needed 1 more turn to swing with Fire/Ice and bail me out. I was a turn too slow. He pulls the "well i just win" via SSG. Stupid.

R3. Carl with DnT / W
-I see Karakas, STP, and Rishadan after he mulled to 6. I win with lifetotals reading 18 vs 8. He just got blown out.
-Rusty match. I feel my hand was decent but the combination of "I suck and haven't played" + "I dont play in general" + "he got insane land sequencing" wins. I lose to a key wasteland + 2 rishadans. I can't muscle out the bombs sitting in hand (KotR x2 and a ZP). I manage to STP 2 of his threats off a lone plains. But he drops a second brimaz (dude #3) and I just can't get mana.
-I run past him quickly. He has next to nothing going on. I think I had a well timed QPM and wasteland, which holds him off doing anything while I beat.

R4. Steve with Nic Fit / Draw
I lose a long game 1. He uses shocks but managed to just make it to the long game following a deed that blew me out. I note that he plays slow, which is a statement coming from me. I play below average/average speed and he was just not making moves. I ask him to pick it up because we got 25 mins going into game 2. I don't regret playing things out a bit to get more information. Doing so helped set up game 2's win. Time lost where I coulda scooped cost me a potential game 3.
I kill him game 2. Pain in the ass grind but I actually won through hard-casting Ruric (thank you DRS). Ruric meant deeds or recurring would be near-lethal. Ruric also cleared out a shit ton of his board.
Game 3 I have a VERY winnable hand but we have like 2-3 minutes before turns. If we played for real, I'd need another 5 minutes max. Unfortunately I don't have that much time.
*NO package very real threat here

R5. Timur with Grixis Delver/Pyro brew / W
*Intentionally scooped to me because Timur is a gentleman. The bracket was weird and he would need a lot to break correctly should he win. I would be a guaranteed top 8. We playtest and by this point I'm exhausted. He stomps me and we talk legacy. Timur always provides genius stats and insight. I really appreciate him analyzing the match. He doesn't think the SDT thing is stupid. He think Top vs Library is playstyle and me "playing the long game rather than the early game". He's totally right. I won games with top that were grindy and/or required long term deck manipulation. He thinks top in Maverick isn't crazy. Props to Timur for being a gentleman.

Top 8
Quarters. Dan (store owner) with DnT / Chop
-I wait like 40 minutes for Dan, which was frustrating but he's a good guy. Game 1 I either punt or lose to luck or both.
-Game 2 I run through him casting RIP and making a fatal misplay (equipping jitte on SFM and swinging into my Mom). I light and shadow him to death while blowing up 2 straight equipment via pridemage. QPM is a hero sometimes.
-Game 3 I play smart and manage to pull awful topdecks down the stretch. I have 2 DRS, Noble, a gigantic KotR, and SFM + Light and Shadow vs his Batterskull (equipped with Fire/Ice) + Mom + SFM. At some point, he casts Containment Priest. I try to race Batterskull with super Knight while he's relyign on 2 plains and 2 Vials to do something. He offers to chop, which I blow off. At this point everyone is watching. I go to swing with knight and he vials in flickerwisp. ouch. I ask if the chop is still on the table, as i wonder wtf i did to punt. He accepts. Almost immediately after, my good friend Ben (not round 2 dude) says vial + priest should have nuked Mom #2 and Flicker. We all missed that interaction. it didn't bother me, but I still question if I coulda won past the boardstate. I was sitting on a STP to nerf damage from batterskull once. I am not too salty, as I had a good run. Plus Dan gives me a small % of his split, signaling how I shoulda won that match (no mom #2 or flicker to stay on table). I had SO MANY OUTS to dan (2 grips, qpm, toxics, zp, etc, sitting on STP to nerf batterskull for a turn). Hey, you can't fault a good day.

@Cambriel: Top just works better for me. I love it as a turn 1 play. I love it as a turn 2 play, leaving me open to STP or drop a dork. I love it over the course of a game. I love it working ridiculously well with Kruphix. It's unfair when you can just filter stuff with Kruphix out and gain life. Top also wins me some games when I can filter on a stalled boardstate. Library would require me to wait or pay extra life to accelerate. Sometimes I need to rearrange multiple times before I draw (ie; top on my turn, top on their turn due to new circumstances). Just like miracles, Top is also strong with lots of shuffling and fetches.

[philipneri]

Howdy, I started playing Legacy about six months ago. I absolutely love it, and I want to start building a second deck. I am two duals, a Karakas, and one SFM away from the following version of Dark Maverick.

Creatures
3x Deathrite Shaman
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes

4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg

4x Knight of the Reliquary

Non-Creatures
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay

1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Savannah
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas

Could you all help me build a SB? I only play in small local events. These are the match-ups I want to be ready for (in order of importance): DnT, Miracles, MUD, OmniTell, Storm, Reanimator, and the mirror-match. Thank you all in advance.

[T-101]

Could you all help me build a SB? I only play in small local events. These are the match-ups I want to be ready for (in order of importance): DnT, Miracles, MUD, OmniTell, Storm, Reanimator, and the mirror-match. Thank you all in advance.

2x Teeg in the board is good, especially vs Miracles. Increases chance of drawing it, and you can be damn sure they're gonna Swords him or Judgement him as soon as possible, so having more to find with GSZ is pretty awesome. DnT is already in your favor, but Zealous Persecution wrecks them pretty hard, 1 or 2 in the board is solid. I played 4 Thoughtseize in the board when I last played Maverick, which can really help against combo decks. 2-3 Containment Priest is insane for the Reanimator match up, and is good against Elves, DnT, SnT, and Dredge as well. 1 Pithing Needle is good against many things, but I'm a bit biased towards the card, and rarely leave it out of sideboards. If there's a bunch of Stone-Forge in your meta, Manriki-Gusari is also not a bad inclusion for the SB.

[philipneri]

Okay, I am thinking something along these lines:

4x Thoughtseize (combo)
2x Krosan Grip (Miracles, MUD, DnT)
2x Zealous Persecution (DnT, Elves, mirror)
1x Toxic Deluge (DnT, Elves, mirror)
2x Gaddock Teeg (Miracles)
2x Ethersworn Canonist (Storm, OmniTell, Elves)
2x Containment Priest (Reanimator, Elves)

What do you all think of that?

[T-101]

Looks great. K Grip slipped my mind, but it is a great board card for Maverick. Deluge is another good one. Let us know how it works out for ya.

[Warden]

2 deluge instead of 1. I'd swap numbers with that so you can lock down elves and DnT better. the -2/-2 or occasional -3/-3 clinches games.

[TMagpie]

2 deluge instead of 1. I'd swap numbers with that so you can lock down elves and DnT better. the -2/-2 or occasional -3/-3 clinches games.

I'm a big Deluge Fan over Persecution--but I do not think one is better than the other. Instant + Buffs your team means Zealous Persecution is a great reactive card, big numbers board sweeper means Deluge is a great proactive card. Whichever your playstyle prefers should be what decides between both. Essentially--you can topdeck a deluge and it can 180 the game almost no matter what the board state while persecution you really have to navigate to get the most out of it.

[Warden]

I'm a big Deluge Fan over Persecution--but I do not think one is better than the other. Instant + Buffs your team means Zealous Persecution is a great reactive card, big numbers board sweeper means Deluge is a great proactive card. Whichever your playstyle prefers should be what decides between both. Essentially--you can topdeck a deluge and it can 180 the game almost no matter what the board state while persecution you really have to navigate to get the most out of it.

I specifically address his concerns over Elves and DnT. I find Deluge to be a significantly better card. Elves dies to -2/-2, whereas some of them (DRS, Nettle) survive through ZP and proceed to punish you for doing so. DnT if you can go beyond -1/-1 you basically win. This is especially relevant in the late-game, where Knights can survive Deluge @ 4 (killing off Brimaz and Batterskull if needed).

[TMagpie]

I specifically address his concerns over Elves and DnT. I find Deluge to be a significantly better card. Elves dies to -2/-2, whereas some of them (DRS, Nettle) survive through ZP and proceed to punish you for doing so. DnT if you can go beyond -1/-1 you basically win. This is especially relevant in the late-game, where Knights can survive Deluge @ 4 (killing off Brimaz and Batterskull if needed).

No disagreement on all counts. Its the reason I run Deluge over Persecution. But I also know I've saved my board with persecution and I've also done a one sided wrath effect with persecution keeping my moms and thalias alive. Still, sometimes True-Name is wearing a sword of whatever and whatever and you just need to deluge for X.

[Nitrospira]

"Vryn Wingmare-2W
Creature - Pegasus
Flying
Noncreature spells cost 1 more to cast.
2/1"

Source: http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/vrynwingmare.html

Thoughts on the new guy? I like him, and flying is great, but Glowrider has the same effect (sans flying) for the same cost and nobody plays Glowrider. This shouldn't replace Thalia, but I could see it as a 1-2 of somewhere in the 75

[Warden]

"Vryn Wingmare-2W
Creature - Pegasus
Flying
Noncreature spells cost 1 more to cast.
2/1"

Source: http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/vrynwingmare.html

Thoughts on the new guy? I like him, and flying is great, but Glowrider has the same effect (sans flying) for the same cost and nobody plays Glowrider. This shouldn't replace Thalia, but I could see it as a 1-2 of somewhere in the 75

Not really. Thalia is the best because she's a 2cc (1+W) taxer with first strike. Anything in the 3-hole needs to really do damage. This is just more of the tax. This flyer still loses to burn, terminus, wrath, and a swarm of opposing creatures. Most of us already don't bother with Aven Mindcensor, who IMO is miles better for the deck as a whole. If you want spells to simply cost more, run 4x Thalia and some amount of Thorn of Amethyst. The pegasus just isnt enough.

[Daban]

Hello!
I'm just getting into legacy and I've chosen maverick as my first deck!

This is the 75 I have in mind, but I'm not 100% sure on it (especially the sideboard).
From the minor proxied testing I have done I have really enjoyed Titania as the curvetopper bomb. She allows us to go wide if the going high plan with Knight of the Reliquary isn't working, as well as having some minor Karakas synergy.

I'd love any type of feedback, negative or positive, but please be constructive. Explain why some card choices are bad/good, I only want to learn more about this awesome format!

Not sure if posting links is allowed, so I put the decklist in here. Please update me if a tappedout link is preferred :)

Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
1 Forest

Creatures (24)
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Birds of Paradise

Instants and Sorceries (10)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

Enchantments (1)
1 Sylvan Library

Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard (15)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cataclysm
2 Choke
1 Council's Judgment
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution