[Deck] GW/x Maverick [Archive] - Page 26

lordofthepit

10-15-2015, 02:24 PM

Hello!

I'm a long time lurker, second time poster in this thread. I've been playing competitive legacy since -07 and mostly play fair, non-
blue decks like zoo, nic fit & the rock and have been playing maverick on and off since it's creation. Because I've been living in
the swedish outback for a year and a half now I don't get to play tourneys that often, my latest achievment was a win at the GP
Stockholm legacy side event last year, were I played maverick splashing black & DD/stage.

With Dig getting banned I thought that BUG shardless and other value decks would be back in full force so I assembled a grindy
punishing list that I felt would be good in the expected meta. (I posted the decklist a couple of posts up).
This is my report from the Scandinavian Open #7 legacy tournament, it's all from memory and as such some details or plays might be
described incorrectly. Anyway, 70 players showed up which meant 7 rounds + top 8.

Round 1, Egil with Grixis pyromancer/delver
G1: He gets double pyromancers early, i kill one with fire but he has a third one and creates a lot of tokens while I'm stuck on
three mana for a while. I try to turn the game around with jitte but he has the stifle for my counters trigger and I'm overrun by
his guys.
SB: +1 dismember, +1 EE, +1 Electrickery, +2 Thalia, -1 Gaddock, -2 Qasali Pridemage, -1 Wilt-Leaf Liege, -1 Sigarda
G2: He counters my sylvan library and KotR but hasn't got any pressure besides a DRS and with his resources depleted I resolve a
Courser of Kruphix who generates enough value to take over the game.
G3: There's about 10 minutes left in the round and I think this might go to time. Eventually, as expected, we end up in extra turns,
and at that point there's a Sulfuric Vortex, a Clique and 2 DRS on his side, but just one black mana source. I have a hierarch, a
bird and a Scryb Ranger that works both offense and defense. My life total is high enough that he won't be able to kill me unless he
finds some combination of bolt, removal and black mana. I try to connect with jitte in extra turn 1 and 3 but opp has Stifle both
times. As the last turn of the match approaches opp is at 5 life and I know my only out is SoFaI, either drawing naturally or via
Stoneforge. Lady luck is on my side and I draw the sword, opponent tries Spell Pierce but cradle and scryb ranger provides plenty of
mana to both pay and equip.

1-0 (2-1 in games)

Round 2, Lukas with burg delver
G1: I know this guy usually play RUG delver so my hand of maze, 3 lands, hierarch, zenith and Punishing Fire seem ok. Underground
sea into DRS meets fire and he has a follow up Sylvan Library into Nimble Mongoose which tells me his burg delver today. Another
mongoose joins the fight and they nibble away at my life total while I struggle to find a threat with Cavern of Souls at the ready
in hand. At 5 life I finally find a knight and spends a few turns growing her before I can make a lethal attack forcing his mongeese
to chump block duty. He doesn't find any bolts and scoops.
SB: +1 Dismember, +1 EE, +2 Thalia, -1 Gaddock Teeg, -1 Qasali Pridemage, -1 Wilt-Leaf Liege, -1 Sigarda
G2: I get an early mom to survive while he can't get any threat to stick around besides a DRS. Scryb ranger makes his life even
harder but at least he has removal for both my equipments. I land a KotR and opp makes some attempts to remove my guys but scoops
eventually.

2-0 (4-1 in games)

Round 3, Jonas with Jund
G1: He opens with Thoughtseize taking my Sylvan, I beat him down a bit with QP and hierarchs. At 10 life he stabilizes behind goyf
but I then zenith for Sigarda and he concedes.
SB: +1 Dismember, +1 EE, +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, -1 Gaddock, -2 Pridemage
G2: He get's his punishing fire going early and i never get into this game.
G3: I keep the questionable hand of fetch, dryad arbor, sylvan library, dismember, plow, EE and zenith, leading with Dryad. If he
bolts the Dryad this will go south really fast, but I reason that if I get to untap with the Dryad I'm in OK shape since I have
plenty of answers for goyf & bob. Dryad survives and we trade resources for a while and when he's stuck on 2 lands after a wasteland from me I land a
Wilt-Leaf Liege that he can't find an answer for in time.

3-0 (6-2 in games)

Round 4, Georgiy with BUG shardless
G1: Sigarda resolves with a suspended Ancestral Visions in waiting, he can't answer her and she goes the distance.
SB: +1 Dismember, +1 EE, +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, -1 Gaddock, -2 Pridemage
G2: I beat him down with manadorks until he deluges for 1, then i wasteland him a bit and resolve Domri rade who finds me both
Sylvan Safekeeper and KotR which I resolve over the next two turns. At this point I know I've pretty much got the game locked up
since he is just on 3 lands. He reads Safekeeper for a while and tries to Disfigure him, but it is not to be and he can't handle the
Knight / Safekeeper tag team.

4-0 (8-2 in games)

Round 5, Mathias with Esper thopter/sword control
G1: Mathias is a good guy and a skillfull wizard. I know I'm up against some controlling esper deck with thopter/sword, but I've got no idea what kind of sweepers he's running or how many. I manage to beat him down to 7 before he sweeps my board with Supreme Verdict. From there I try to finish the job with
p fires but before I can kill him he assembles his combo and turns the game around.
SB: -4 StP, -1 Maze of Ith, -2 Punishing Fire, +2 Pithing Needle, +2 Thalia, +1 Gaddock, +1 SoLaS, +1 Surgical Extraction
G2: He forces both turn 2 Sylvan Library and turn 3 Domri Rade but i manage to get SoFaI to stick and safekeeper picks it up and
goes to town. He tries to fight back with his thopter combo but this is trumped by my newfound jitte.
G3: I mulligan in to 2 lands, 2 Gaddock, 1 needle and Stoneforge, pretty much an ideal hand. He plays turn one top and i play needle
to which he responds with draw. I name top and he misses his land drop on his turn 2. He's got Spell Snare for my Gaddock though but
my second one resolves and he still struggles to develop his mana sufficiently. When SoFaI hits the board and he can't find answers
the game is over in short order.

5-0 (10-3 in games)

Round 6, John with ANT
G1: I was hoping to be able to ID into top 8 but my opponent is on 12 points and can't afford such luxury, alas we have to play it
out. He is from my old hometown Uppsala and I know he likes to play combo and is a proficient storm player, therefore I'm not
exactly thrilled over this turn of events. I win the dice roll and live to present a turn 2 Gaddock to which he scoops.
SB: -4 StP, -3 Pfire, -1 Maze of Ith, -1 Sigarda, -1 Domri, +1 Enlightened Tutor, +1 Canonist, +2 Thalia, +1 Gaddock, +1
Trinisphere, +1 EE, +1 Electrickery, +1 Surgical, +1 Crypt
G2: I mulligan to a hand with Thalia, and a bunch of lands. I once again survive turn 1 and Thalia comes down but he's making his
land drops and my clock is weak. A thoughtseize reveals my all land hand and he passes, I suspect he's not far from going off since
he's been sculpting his hand for some turns. Trinisphere comes off the top for me and I feel a bit safer. Some random creature joins
my side next turn and I can beat him down before he can answer my lock pieces.

6-0 (12-3 in games)

Round 7, ID
I can finally draw into top 8, this is my first longer break from playing magic during the day so I take a well needed opportunity
to relax and get some coffee and food.

When the top 8 is anounced I'm at the top of the standings and will get to go first in the playoffs. I'm paired vs RG lands and
unfortunately lose. The match is available to watch at http://www.twitch.tv/svmtv/v/20173492 it starts around the 6 hour mark. It
feels like I might had been able to do something diferently during the last game but I was pretty exhausted and can't exactly
remember. I don't feel the lands matchup is very bad so it was a pretty sour end to my run, but all in all I'm satisfied with the
deck and my performance. Peace!

Glad to hear you're still kicking ass!

@ oSeabass
Maze of Ith was probably the worst card in the deck. I always hate it when a delver is beating me down and my KotR can't do shit
about it, so I included it as a sort of hedge against this. But for all the reasons you listed I agree that it isn't very necessary, I
wouldn't include it in a future decklist.

Cpt-Qc

10-15-2015, 02:33 PM

My Dark Maverick is not complete yet so I'm still looking to improve it before I buy all the lands.

How does this list look?

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Siege Rhino
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

2 Sylvan Library

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Green Sun Zenith

2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
4 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothill

Jon

10-15-2015, 02:39 PM

Batterskull is dumpster, you want flats or verdants to also hit scrubland.

I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

Jon

10-15-2015, 02:39 PM

Also 4 Savannah is overkill you want basics.

I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

Cpt-Qc

10-15-2015, 02:53 PM

Batterskull is dumpster, you want flats or verdants to also hit scrubland.

I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

Would you put SoFaI mainboard? and should I also put SoLaS in the side to replace it?

I found in my testing that Light and Show was used almost exclusively for it's protections.
The ability seems meh most of the time.

Pellefant

10-15-2015, 03:02 PM

Glad to hear you're still kicking ass!

Thanks man!

tescrin

10-15-2015, 03:44 PM

My Dark Maverick is not complete yet so I'm still looking to improve it before I buy all the lands.

How does this list look?

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Siege Rhino <= singleton feels weak IMO. I'd rather have a Walker personally, or a bomb.

2 Sylvan Library
1 Batterskull <= Not as good in this deck as mentioned. Can be used in the side as an anti-
1 Umezawa's Jitte Empty The Warrens card.

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun Zenith

-23 Lands- <= This is probably fine with maze, but may be 1 too high.
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor

2 Forest
1 Plains

2 Bayou
4 Savannah <= move 1-2 to fetches, move 0-1 to scrubs
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothill <= switch to a relevant fetch as mentioned

Consider some utility lands. I enjoyed Cabal Pit a bit as a way to kill off Mom or similar. Being able to fetch a kill card is nifty. Bog is an alright card as well; but it's obnoxious to start with and is somewhat mediocre.

An aside; it's only "Dark Maverick" if it has Dark Confidant. It typically looks like a mashup of Maverick and Junk (GSZ package, KotR, Confidant, Discard)

Nik842

10-15-2015, 04:56 PM

-Attacking tricks to make your KotR have vigilance, threaten double-jitte counters, or just Gustcloak your opponent to see if they are willing to call your bluff.

I've never understood the double attacking with Maze + KotR.
Can someone please explain that to me?

tescrin

10-15-2015, 05:10 PM

I've never understood the double attacking with Maze + KotR.
Can someone please explain that to me?

It's not "double attacking" it's psuedo vigilance.

To understand you have to understand the combat steps:

Main Phase
Pass Priority

Beginning of combat step [another step where stuff triggers and resolves and you pass priority - think Goblin Rabblemaster]
Pass Priority
Declare Attackers
Pass Priority
Declare Blockers
Pass Priority
Combat Damage <-you might pass priority here too.. can't remember
End of Combat step[another step where stuff triggers and resolves and you pass priority - think the old Basilisk ability]
Pass Priority

Main Phase

Now, while damage has been done you're still an "attacking creature" until the end of the combat damage step (or possibly to the end of combat step. I don't quite remember at the moment as I haven't had to care.
I may be mixing up

iamajellydonut

10-15-2015, 05:28 PM

Now, while damage has been done you're still an "attacking creature" until the end of the combat damage step (or possibly to the end of combat step. I don't quite remember at the moment as I haven't had to care.
I may be mixing up

511.3. As soon as the end of combat step ends, all creatures and planeswalkers are removed from combat. After the end of combat step ends, the combat phase is over and the postcombat main phase begins (see rule 505).

Nik842

10-15-2015, 05:29 PM

It's not "double attacking" it's psuedo vigilance.

To understand you have to understand the combat steps:

Now, while damage has been done you're still an "attacking creature" until the end of the combat damage step (or possibly to the end of combat step. I don't quite remember at the moment as I haven't had to care.
I may be mixing up

That actually made it very clear. Thanks for that!

Msbrigido1989

10-15-2015, 06:27 PM

I am new to the forum and i hope you guys might be able to make some positive contributions :smile:
I will use this list im my local store in Brazil within 35-38 players, but most of all using control and combo decks and is quite painful to play against :cry: (storm, reanimator, bug shardless, stoneblade, miracles....)
How does this list look?

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Mother of Runes
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Stoneforge mystic
1x Sylvan safekeeper
1x Gaddock teeg
1x qasali pridemage
1x Scavenging ooze
1x Dryad arbor

4x Green Sun Zenith
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Hymn to tourach
1x Thoughtseize

2x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of fire and ice

4x Verdant catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland

2x Savannah
2x Scrubland
1x Bayou
1x Karakas
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Forest

Koby

10-15-2015, 06:32 PM

Maindeck discard is generally worse than either removal or additional disruptive creatures. There's also the dissynergy between Thalia and <spells>. I would recommend Liliana over Hymn or Thoughtseize as hand disruption, but not over more Thalia first.

L10

10-15-2015, 06:40 PM

I agree with Koby. But if you really want a main deck discard spell to hedge against combo, I'd go with Tidehollow Sculler because he's also a clock. Also, BB can be hard to achieve.

tescrin

10-15-2015, 07:08 PM

511.3. As soon as the end of combat step ends, all creatures and planeswalkers are removed from combat. After the end of combat step ends, the combat phase is over and the postcombat main phase begins (see rule 505).
I'm unsure if this is meant as clarification or refutation. I'll say that it doesn't work as a refutation, but I don't want to get into rules talk unless we're actually in disagreement; in which case it's probably better to send it to the rules forum anyway.

Maindeck discard is generally worse than either removal or additional disruptive creatures.
[Disclaimer: I'm in the Maverick section, and the above quote is quite possibly only in reference to maverick, but the general response has to do with GWB colored decks.]

I think this is a misunderstanding that comes from the GW point of view. I think the issue is that GW can't fit Bob AND removal AND Discard And the GSZ package AND liliana. That's why we have Maverick, Junk, and DGA as different versions.

Discard is wonderful at the "any type of deck" interaction; allowing you to remove permanents, spells, creatures, you name it; preventing Lily from ever activating or SFM from every generating CA; generating virtual CA for yourself.
The issue with Discard is that it sucks so bad late game it requires Sylvan Library/SDT, Dark Confidant, Liliana, and possibly other cards so that you can draw enough or filter enough that the impact it has early game outweighs the negative it has on the late game via card draw/filtering mechanics.

And of course as Koby mentions in the latter of the post; the main issue isn't that Hatebears are better; it's that Thalia is the BOSS hatebear and she doesn't like you having 20-25 non-creature spells in your deck; which is where Junk is at. (~10 removal, 6-7 discard, 2-3 sylvan libraries/sdt, 2-3 equipment, etc..)

I think the "proper" way to mix Junk/Maverick is something like:

-16-18-
4 DRS
4 Bob
1 Teeg
1 Scooze
0-2 QPM
2-4 SFM
3 KotR

-21-23-
3-4 GSZ
2-3 Library
3-4 Decay
3-4 Plow
3 Liliana
2-3 equips
5-7 discard

22(?) lands

You get a mix of Hatebear (Teeg) with Discard and Liliana to help stabilize. I'll be trying a KotR junk again soon; but in general it feels like you get less value and have color issues with this formation (BB, GB and GW) where as GWb has GW and GB as the only combinations so it's "centered."

Cpt-Qc

10-15-2015, 07:14 PM

1 Siege Rhino <= singleton feels weak IMO. I'd rather have a Walker personally, or a bomb.

1 Batterskull <= Not as good in this deck as mentioned. Can be used in the side as an anti-Empty The Warrens card.

-23 Lands- <= This is probably fine with maze, but may be 1 too high.

Consider some utility lands. I enjoyed Cabal Pit a bit as a way to kill off Mom or similar. Being able to fetch a kill card is nifty. Bog is an alright card as well; but it's obnoxious to start with and is somewhat mediocre.

An aside; it's only "Dark Maverick" if it has Dark Confidant. It typically looks like a mashup of Maverick and Junk (GSZ package, KotR, Confidant, Discard)

Thanks for the info.

Batterskull has been put in sideboard for now but I'm still wondering if I should replace it with light and shadow.

I put rhino in cause at 4cc he's easy to cast and can be tutored relatively quickly. Also he was my answer to chump blocking (and TNN to some extent).
Edit: Also, he can be hardcast most games. What other choices do I have? Is Sigarda really that much better?

I've adjusted the land count to 22 but It could go back to 23 if I exchange rhino for Rogue's passage as mentioned earlier.
Would that be better than having a trample creature that can be tutored for?

Echelon

10-16-2015, 02:51 AM

Well... Sigarda can't be hit by your opponents' spotremoval, eats Delver for breakfast and flies over TNN. But mostly the "can-only-be-answered-by-big-ass-sweepers" bit.

Msbrigido1989

10-17-2015, 10:51 AM

I agree with Koby. But if you really want a main deck discard spell to hedge against combo, I'd go with Tidehollow Sculler because he's also a clock. Also, BB can be hard to achieve.

Maindeck discard is generally worse than either removal or additional disruptive creatures. There's also the dissynergy between Thalia and <spells>. I would recommend Liliana over Hymn or Thoughtseize as hand disruption, but not over more Thalia first.

thank you guys, I really appreciate it for your opinions :wink:
I'll report to a post after the tournament, giving my feedback and observation about how the deck run exclusively against combo.

tescrin

10-17-2015, 02:18 PM

I've adjusted the land count to 22 but It could go back to 23 if I exchange rhino for Rogue's passage as mentioned earlier.
Would that be better than having a trample creature that can be tutored for?

Can't say for sure. If you want an evasive huge-dude; I'd go Sigarda, as much as I'm "meh" on it. If you *just* want evasion, you can go the Scryb Ranger route. Siege Rhino is a fine card it seems, but I feel like it's home is more in Nic Fit where it can be cast several times.

I often don't have an issue of requiring evasion to connect; either because the Sword I choose has the correct protection, Mom is there, or some other nuance. Another point is that you don't have to hit the player with Jitte, so Jitte tends to be my go to and the evasion matters little; since the CA generated by connecting is enough to seal the deal.

Koby

10-20-2015, 09:16 PM

How has Pithing Needle as a sideboard slot been working out for folks? Which matchups do you normally bring in it for?

bakofried

10-20-2015, 11:50 PM

When I was testing it, I brought Needle in against Miracles. Most of the time I named Top; in corner cases, Jace and E. Explosives. I didn't test against other MU's with Needle in the 76.

sdematt

10-21-2015, 01:28 AM

It's an excellent all-star. I like it against Miracles for Top (or Jace), I like it against Sneak for Sneak, Vial, etc.

-Matt

Fl0do

10-21-2015, 01:58 AM

I think Needle is great, I'm playing 2 in my SB at the moment.

I'm boarding it vs:

Miracles (SDT, Jace)
Shardless Sultai (Liliana, Jace, sometimes Deathrite)
Jund (Liliana, sometimes Deathrite)
Death & Taxes (Vial, Equipment, Mangara, sometimes Mother of Runes)
Sneak and Show (Griselbrand, Sneak Attack)
Elves (Wirewood Symbiote, Quirion Ranger, sometimes Deathrite)
Lands (Thespian's Stage, Rishadan Port, sometimes Wasteland)
Goblins (Vial, ..)
Merfolk (Vial, Mutavault)
Infect (Inkmoth Nexus)
12-Post (SDT, Expedition Map, ...)
and probably many more
//Edit: totally forgot Stoneblade and Painter ^^

and if I have space I'm boarding it also vs. ANT/TES because naming a fetchland is real and has won me at least one game (depends on what I saw in the first game).

Nik842

10-21-2015, 10:06 AM

So far I've only used Pithing Needle against Plainswalkers, Thespian Stage, and some Fetchlands. Even with only those three targets, it has definitely found a permanent place in my SB.

yuMi-

10-21-2015, 03:52 PM

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31763_Brad-VS-BBD-Esper-Deathblade-VS-Maverick.html

can anyone post BBD's list?

ty!

Jon

10-21-2015, 05:47 PM

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31763_Brad-VS-BBD-Esper-Deathblade-VS-Maverick.html

can anyone post BBD's list?

ty!

I dont pay for premium because they are generally wrong. "His list" is probably a list he took off someone else on the internet.

Koby

10-21-2015, 07:15 PM

I dont pay for premium because they are generally wrong. "His list" is probably a list he took off someone else on the internet.

"I decided to cut this [role player] because it doesn't look right. Let's add maximum DRS and SFM and Batterskull instead. New deck: GW Deathblade" - SCG Writer, probably.

Jon

10-21-2015, 09:39 PM

"I decided to cut this [role player] because it doesn't look right. Let's add maximum DRS and SFM and Batterskull instead. New deck: GW Deathblade" - SCG Writer, probably.

"Stoneforge is so powerful, I added it to Miracles and won something because I only know how to fetch batterskull. " - BVMD

Cpt-Qc

10-21-2015, 10:02 PM

Are you guys pros in disguise? you've got great Maverick insight :O

Fl0do

10-22-2015, 02:10 AM

sdematt

10-22-2015, 02:56 AM

Pro's are typically good at playing technically good Magic, but format knowledge is always lacking compared to the "pro's" of the format. Pro players are always going to gravitate towards objectively powerful decks, ex. Sneak and Show, because hopefully their play skill and the overall power of a list makes up for a lack of knowledge. That list is basically entirely wrong for the current meta, which is obviously shown by the fact it's from July, and the fact it's running 2 Jitte and no SFM (2010 tech).

With a proper list, you can do pretty okay, but 4 TNN isn't fun. That's why you run more Sylvan, SFM, and a shit ton of -1/-1.

4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Courser of Kruphix
24

2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
15

3 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Horizon Canopy
22

SB: 2 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Life from the Loam

Cpt-Qc

10-22-2015, 02:57 AM

Can't say for sure. If you want an evasive huge-dude; I'd go Sigarda, as much as I'm "meh" on it. If you *just* want evasion, you can go the Scryb Ranger route. Siege Rhino is a fine card it seems, but I feel like it's home is more in Nic Fit where it can be cast several times.

I often don't have an issue of requiring evasion to connect; either because the Sword I choose has the correct protection, Mom is there, or some other nuance. Another point is that you don't have to hit the player with Jitte, so Jitte tends to be my go to and the evasion matters little; since the CA generated by connecting is enough to seal the deal.

What about Thrun? Seems BBD likes it enough to put it in his side.

I've got 1 flex slot in my list since I'm thinking of dropping Scryb Ranger.

Scryb's weakness is that it's easy to get rid of.
Sigarda is the best of the three but costs 6 if I want to green sun (and you tap out).
Thrun just has evasion so it's basically a sword wielder.

Fl0do

10-22-2015, 03:34 AM

@sdematt:

Please tell me more about the Courser of Kruphix :) I'm still not convinced playing that guy, maybe I'm missing something :S

Jon

10-22-2015, 07:04 AM

BBD plays this list:

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=87967

vs.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=68903

BDD loses 1:4

Deathblade with four TNN is definitely not an easy matchup and Maverick playing without a Stoneforge Package and Sylvan Library doesn't make it easier. I'm also questioning playing 3 lands which are bad in the opening hand (Stage, Depths, Bojuka Bog).
And I don't get the inclusion of Courser of Kruphix, who sees some hype lately. Is he really worth the slot? I mean he doesn't have that high impact other cards like Sylvan Library, Stoneforge Mystic, etc. have though I see the advantage playing him/her vs. aggressive decks (which are not so bad matchups anyway).

His list, in my opinion, is bad. I hate the 4's, 2 Jittes dont make sense, and no Library makes no sense.

What about Thrun? Seems BBD likes it enough to put it in his side.

I've got 1 flex slot in my list since I'm thinking of dropping Scryb Ranger.

Scryb's weakness is that it's easy to get rid of.
Sigarda is the best of the three but costs 6 if I want to green sun (and you tap out).
Thrun just has evasion so it's basically a sword wielder.

How many matches do you think BBD has with Maverick? Probably the one he played there. If you read the last 4-5 pages there was many people who have played the deck for years and regularly tune the deck discussing Sigarda V Thrun. I fall on the Sigarda Side of the argument cause I prefer flying and closing the game quickly in the matches she is good.

BBD is a fine magic player but I respect the posters in this thread (some of them, others are asshats) more then I value his opinion on a deck he probably has no intention in ever playing.

T-101

10-22-2015, 12:16 PM

I've played Thrun in the past, don't like him.

He sounds ok on paper, but he's really only super good vs Miracles. If Miracles is a concern, we can just play more Teegs/Decays in the board, which are good against other things too.

Being 4 mana and only attacking for 4 is not what I'm looking for in legacy.

Zero Sylvans is punishable by death (or is it just punishable by the fact you lose a lot of matches, I know it's one of the two.)

oSeabass

10-22-2015, 02:22 PM

Please tell me more about the Courser of Kruphix :) I'm still not convinced playing that guy, maybe I'm missing something :S

4 Toughness is relevant vs. red bolt based removal
The life gain plays nice with Knight to gain a non trivial amount to use for: Library, Horizon Canopy mana, Fetches, etc.
It dying to "Enchantment" removal is not relevant game 1 most of the time, just dies to Abrupt Decay like everything else we run.
If you run E. Tutor package out of the board you can find a creature with it.
Card filtering and selection with shuffle effects like Knight, Fetches, GSZ.
Ability to stretch lands even further being able to play them off the top deck to draw more action.
With a S.Library in play you can look @ top 3, draw gas/action and leave a land on top. Play the land off the top for a "free" card draw instead of paying 4 for it.
Almost all our stuff is Sorcery speed anyway, we can adapt plays with more knowledge of the next draw step.

Basically the grindy nature of the card is real nice. Playing it with Library only makes it stronger. I am still testing it online a bit but so far it has been nice if only to stretch land drops a bit on tight mana hands. Perfect example would be a mana dork with 1 Green source and a Wasteland. You can use Courser to help the "land light" hand.

Warden

10-22-2015, 05:03 PM

4 Toughness is relevant vs. red bolt based removal
The life gain plays nice with Knight to gain a non trivial amount to use for: Library, Horizon Canopy mana, Fetches, etc.
It dying to "Enchantment" removal is not relevant game 1 most of the time, just dies to Abrupt Decay like everything else we run.
If you run E. Tutor package out of the board you can find a creature with it.
Card filtering and selection with shuffle effects like Knight, Fetches, GSZ.
Ability to stretch lands even further being able to play them off the top deck to draw more action.
With a S.Library in play you can look @ top 3, draw gas/action and leave a land on top. Play the land off the top for a "free" card draw instead of paying 4 for it.
Almost all our stuff is Sorcery speed anyway, we can adapt plays with more knowledge of the next draw step.

Basically the grindy nature of the card is real nice. Playing it with Library only makes it stronger. I am still testing it online a bit but so far it has been nice if only to stretch land drops a bit on tight mana hands. Perfect example would be a mana dork with 1 Green source and a Wasteland. You can use Courser to help the "land light" hand.

Thank you for concisely explaining why this card is the bomb. I don't understand why people stopped playing him. I debate about playing 2 in my list because that's how fucking insane he is. Blocks half the threats you'd see and nets you cards + life while being zenith- and e.tutor-able.

Nik842

10-22-2015, 05:09 PM

I want to start out by again saying thank you to everyone in this thread. Everyone has helped a lot with their thoughts/opinions on Maverick.

I haven't played Maverick in a while. I switched to Pox for some time, but I'll be dusting off Maverick and playing it at a LGS this Saturday.

Here's the list I'll be playing:

Land (23)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Rogue's Passage (Interested in seeing how this works out)
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath

Instant (4)
4x Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantment (2)
2x Sylvan Library

Creature (24)
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth (In mock games, and at the right time, I've been able to get 2-4 tokens generated at the "right time)

Artifact (3)
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard (15)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Choke
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Krosan Grip
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Pithing Needle
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons (Probably will be taking the slot of Titania when put into the MB)
2x Zealous Persecution

Questions? Comments?

T-101

10-22-2015, 05:50 PM

Looks good, Nik842. I've wanted to try Safekeeper + Titani, haven't made time to do it yet (maybe this weekend).

The two things that jump out at me are only 2x Thalia, and only 7 fetches. I fully realize that when you add cool cards, something's gotta go, but when I play Maverick, I am looking for Thalia on turn 2 in the vast majority of my games.

apple713

10-22-2015, 07:16 PM

Fl0do

10-23-2015, 02:53 AM

Thank you for concisely explaining why this card is the bomb. I don't understand why people stopped playing him. I debate about playing 2 in my list because that's how fucking insane he is. Blocks half the threats you'd see and nets you cards + life while being zenith- and e.tutor-able.

hes ok, really what ends up happening is that you have better cards to play unless you are trying to generate card advantage over a longer game. He has no immediate impact on the field. He's not a threat and only blocks. The card advantage he generates is nice but slow so its really only useful in games that last longer. Since he doesn't let you play extra lands it kinda sucks, but he is a decent 1 of. Good for having him as a GSZ target but more than 1 isn't great.

He has to be better than whatever you are cutting for him and he won't be.

Ok, Courser has some uses, but I really don't think he is good enough. Like apple713 stated, there are better cards to play. Our creatures are divided into acceleration, disruption and threats supplemented by GSZ to find them more reliably. Courser is neither acceleration nor disruption nor a real threat (Scavenging Ooze, Stoneforge Mystic and Knight of the Reliquary dominate the board once active), it rather falls into the category of cardselection/cardadvantage where it rivals with Equipment and especially with Sylvan Library. But Sylvan Library is just miles better, because it is less vulnerable, cheaper to cast and provides better cardadvantage. Equipment on the other hand is a threat with every creature and fetchland (Dryad Arbor) and provides better cardadvantage too.

Regarding oSeabass' points:

4 Toughness is relevant vs. red bolt based removal
- Usually Knight, Equipment, Scavenging Ooze or the sheer mass of threats we play should account that, usually it's mass removal I don't want to see. Sylvan Library being not a creature is relevant vs. Swords to Plowshares, especially in the matchups where I want to see cardadvantage tools! ;)
The life gain plays nice with Knight to gain a non trivial amount to use for: Library, Horizon Canopy mana, Fetches, etc.
- I really didn't that much life gain out of the usual life gain from Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze and Equipment, thought playing Sword of Light and Shadow helps.
It dying to "Enchantment" removal is not relevant game 1 most of the time, just dies to Abrupt Decay like everything else we run.
True.
If you run E. Tutor package out of the board you can find a creature with it.
- I still think running a Enlightened Tutor package is worse compared to a conventional sideboard.
Card filtering and selection with shuffle effects like Knight, Fetches, GSZ.
- Sylvan Library does the same and is better.
Ability to stretch lands even further being able to play them off the top deck to draw more action.
- Is there a significant better chance to draw more action? Fetchlands are not played to thin out the deck, neither should Courser be played for that purpose.
With a S.Library in play you can look @ top 3, draw gas/action and leave a land on top. Play the land off the top for a "free" card draw instead of paying 4 for it.
- Digging for 3 cards is just better than playing a land of the top.
Almost all our stuff is Sorcery speed anyway, we can adapt plays with more knowledge of the next draw step.
- My playstyle with Maverick has always to do "with playing to your out", which means I'm always playing with topdecking a certain card in mind and make my plays according to that. Knowing the top card of your library helps a bit, but isn't necessary and I don't want to give my opponen this information, I want to give my opponent as little information as possible.

All in all I can definitely see the benefits of playing Courser, but other cards are better and should be considered first. I also want to mention that my approach to building a list is very conservative, I don't want any cute things and my list is aiming to execute the game plan in every game as often as possible (it's like Einherjer's approach for building Ponder-Miracles). Since then, my win rate got significantly better and that's the reason why I'm critical to odd choices like Courser of Kruphix, etc.
So, no offense, just my reasoning :)

And I apologize for my english being a bit clumsy, I'm not a native speaker and bigger amounts of text are not part of my daily routine :P ;)

greetings, Fl0do

bakofried

10-23-2015, 03:12 AM

Something to keep in mind - no one here is suggesting cutting Library for Courser. Rather, Courser happens to be relevant as a 1-of in a wide variety of matches. Lifegain+CA+4 toughness in one body is not bad.

Fl0do

10-23-2015, 03:21 AM

I'm not saying that Sylvan Library gets cut for a Courser, sorry if my post is misleading regarding that. I'm saying that other cards should be considered first.

On the other hand I saw lists cutting a Knight, the second Library or trimming the Stoneforge package for a Courser Kruphix which are generally better than a Courser.

Jon

10-23-2015, 06:47 AM

Courser is insane with Library and so many shuffle effects. I win more games by grinding out advantage with Courser then casting Squire.

I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

Koby

10-23-2015, 11:56 AM

Courser is insane with Library and so many shuffle effects. I win more games by grinding out advantage with Courser then casting Squire.

This has been true for me as well. It's far more useful against Burn for instance than Knight is. Big booty, life gain, and removing topdeck lands are huge for this deck when combined in one package.

THerzog41

10-23-2015, 06:13 PM

I added courser to the deck when "Cruise Fueled" UR Delver was all the rage. It was amazing in that match-up! During that meta, there was no way I would consider cutting him.

I'm sitting in the hotel room outside of SCG St. Louis trying to finalize my 75, and whether or not to include courser is my HARDEST decision.

Pros
He is good against any fair deck (though like somebody pointed out- not a bomb). The life gain often gives you just what you need in order to stabilize against Delver
Laughs at lightning bolt
Prevents flood
Gives real card selection

Cons
Does not win the game
Surprisingly, not great against burn due to "Price of Progress"
Provides no disruption- this means its bad against combo. Like, the worst.

I always used to play a 3rd pridemage in the main (In those days, Stoneforge was a lot more popular...). Lately I've been considering a few things: 1) Playing a 3rd Stoneforge- and if I did that, I may play Batterskull over Light and Shadow. 2) 3rd Pridemage 3) 2nd Ooze 4) Move Abrupt Decay to main 5) Move Thoughtseize to the main

Either way- don't play bad cards! Anything that requires a certain situation to be good, is actually bad.

pettdan

10-23-2015, 06:19 PM

If someone tests Courser and he works well, do play him. I'm just having a hard time understanding why he would be. Maybe additional life gain, a good blocker and improved card draws are just what the deck needs.

I tend to play Courser in decks like Sylvan Plug and Nic Fit since you get some help progressing the early game to the late game by life gain, blocking and additional lands. He also helps filter for the relatively few game winning cards these decks have. He fits perfectly with the strategy of these decks.

My approach for playing Maverick is to create a mana repressive environment through Thalia/Wasteland/KotR and being able to operate more efficiently than the opponent in this environment. The latter is achieved by using mana creatures for acceleration and Gaea's Cradle to power out stronger threats than the opponent such as equipments, KotR or the single Sigarda/Titania, generally costing 3-4 mana [edit: obviously Courser doesnt do much to help achieve any of this]. I'd rather experiment with another hatebear, another equipment, a Life from the Loam (which potentially enables repeated Wastelands) or some other threat or mana denial.

In practice I think I've been playing an extra Abrupt Decay over a Courser, I'm playing in a very fair meta and like being able to get rid of Chalice, Counterbalance, Vial, Liliana, Goyf, Pyromancer and equipments. In a more combo oriented meta I think I'd try to add some hatebear or discard to interact with the top combo decks. Maybe a Wingmare if playing 4 Thalias... A second copy of Sylvan is also very valuable. [Edit: Maybe a Revoker since he's good vs both Storm and Sneak and Show. I have maindecked a Canonist during the Omnishow era.]

ironclad8690

10-23-2015, 06:33 PM

I always used to play a 3rd pridemage in the main (In those days, Stoneforge was a lot more popular...). Lately I've been considering a few things: 1) Playing a 3rd Stoneforge- and if I did that, I may play Batterskull over Light and Shadow. 2) 3rd Pridemage 3) 2nd Ooze 4) Move Abrupt Decay to main 5) Move Thoughtseize to the main

You are the master, and whatever you choose will probably be correct, but I advocate ooze because BUG (both tempo and midrange/control) and RUG tempo will be back again. Ooze is also pretty good against the new Pyromancer/Angler decks as well. We are the deck that uses the ooze to its full potential. I could see justifying another choice too though.

THerzog41

10-23-2015, 06:47 PM

@Ironclad I appreciate the support, however, I am I mere mortal whom the GW Gods (Karametra?) have given favor. Are BUG and RUG really expected to be big? I know BUG cascade has done well lately, but I haven't seen a lot of Delver. Either way, I do like Ooze a lot... Besides beasting goyfs, a second Ooze would help a lot against Lands.

The pro that nobody has mentioned about Courser is that it adds another dimension. Not that I think the "Hate" people bring for Maverick is good, but it is nice to have something that doesn't use the GY or an equipment.

tescrin

10-23-2015, 07:15 PM

I have mixed feelings on him. I keep almost typing posts and can't remember what I have or haven't said.
He can be Bob when things go well; but with a nice booty.
He can be... I don't know.. a really bad card that gives your opponents gitaxian probes for the rest of the game.

Being monoG is fine for Swords since i think the only person in the world who runs SoFaF is Sdematt, but he's also a creature who doesn't impact the board, has unreliable card advantage outside of christmas land; and basically requires you to be ahead for said CA.

As a 1-of; maybe that's fine. I feel like just about any Christmas land card would work here though. Sigarda, Thrun, etc.. they all fit here I think; as they're all made to break the grind and get whatever that advantage you're trying to get is. I realize Courser is normally in addition to these; but from my Junk eyes; it just looks too clunky.

Cpt-Qc

10-24-2015, 04:08 AM

His list, in my opinion, is bad. I hate the 4's, 2 Jittes dont make sense, and no Library makes no sense.

How many matches do you think BBD has with Maverick? Probably the one he played there. If you read the last 4-5 pages there was many people who have played the deck for years and regularly tune the deck discussing Sigarda V Thrun. I fall on the Sigarda Side of the argument cause I prefer flying and closing the game quickly in the matches she is good.

BBD is a fine magic player but I respect the posters in this thread (some of them, others are asshats) more then I value his opinion on a deck he probably has no intention in ever playing.

I was mostly kidding wheb I refered to BBD hehe

T-101

10-25-2015, 11:57 PM

I played in a local monthly today with the list sdematt posted last page (315), replacing only the 3rd Savannah with a Cradle. I have been hesitant to play with Courser, because it just reeks of the "hot card in standard that people jam in Legacy decks." Think of back when Jace TMS was played in Merfolk, or Huntmaster was played in Jund, etc. But, I finally decided to give it a try.

I went a dismal 1/3, lost against Dredge, won against BUG faerie/reanimator brew, lost against rock, lost against burn. I never drew the Courser, and I never encountered a situation where it seemed like the right GSZ target. I kept the card in my mind, and tried to find an excuse to find it, but it never seemed right. Perhaps I was right, and there just wasn't a good spot for it today, but that makes me wonder...

To the folks who've played Courser, and like it, what are the situations that you find yourself GSZing for it? Long grindy games against non-Miracles decks? I'm stumped. 4 matches isn't enough to make a real impression of the card, and I'd like to give it another try, and I'd like some insight on when and against what the card makes it worth the inclusion. I'm a fan of lots of the toolbox green guys, and Scryb Ranger, 2nd Qasali, 2nd Ooze, Sigarada all have their pros and cons, I really want to find what Courser's power is so I can see if I want to keep him around.

Artlee

10-26-2015, 02:54 AM

T-101

10-26-2015, 11:38 AM

Did you not get to try him vs burn because you went for ooze instead, or because your opponent had Sulfuric Vortex on board?

I played 2 games against burn, and didn't have the opportunity to GSZ for 3. Admittedly I did tutor for 2 at one point to get Ooze. Kind of an auto-pilot move (if able to find a life gain mechanism, do so now).

Thinking about it now, Courser does seem pretty decent if I have the opportunity to get it. 4 toughness means it'll probably take 2 cards, or brickwall their attack step, while gaining a non-zero amount of life.

Any other places where he really shines?

Nik842

10-26-2015, 01:04 PM

Small (very little details - sorry) report from the LGS tournament that I played on Saturday. My list was posted a page or two ago.
There were only 8 of us, so there were only 3 rounds.

R1: Played against one of my friends, so I'm glad we got to pay to play-test. =)
He was running Lands. My only note that I had written down was "I hate Lands.dec"

G1: Deathrite Shaman was actually a beast. -2 each turn was great pretty great for chipping away at your opponent. The only creature I was able to keep on the field was a SFM with a SoFaI equipped to her.
Loss by Marit Lage

G2: Board in 2 Pithing Needles, forgot what I took out.
Not much of a difference here. I was able to Pithing Needle his Thespian's Stage, which helped for a while until he blew up my Needle.

Marit Lage FTL! =/

0-1

R2: Not sure exactly what he was playing other than a UR burn deck. Possibly homebrew?

G1: DRS again is a beast. I'm pretty sure I won in 10 turns with him. I kept picking off, what I assumed, were key cards from his graveyard and he wasn't drawing what he needed.
G2: Boarded in a few things, nothing stellar.
Between myself, and his own cards, I got him down to 3, he then started gaining life. Once I got 2 KotR on the board, he wasn't able to survive. One or two lands in my GY, and a Hierarch & QPM on the field.

1-1

Trying to order a

G3:
Against another one of my friends, who was playing Mono-Red Sneak

R1, can't do anything to beat a turn 3 or 4 Inferno Titan.
R2: I side in most of my board.
Thankfully I made my friend laugh so much that he kept a horrible hand. (I'll take a win almost any way)
He evantually scoops because he can't get anything.
R3: Bad draws for him, and KotR for me.

2-1-1

This is actually the firs time I was in the top 50% of a tournament. I was in 3rd place, and ended up getting $11 in store credit, and traded a card to another played for another $3 in credit that I used towards the purchase of a SFM that I was borrowing from a friend of mine.

Thoughts:
I see now how much of a powerhouse DRS is. I also see that I need another Thalia.
Scavenging Ooze was not something I was looking to play when I had DRS as a choice, so he'll probably get cut for the 3rd Thalia.
I never got the chance to draw Rogue's Passage, so can't comment on it yet.
Scryb Ranger might get cut, but I'm not sure what to replace it with.

Edit, added what place I finished in.
Edit 2: Included the correct deck.

Gabuts007

10-26-2015, 06:11 PM

Hi guys, I recently added a Liliana of the Veil and cut a Thalia. And its been working better than ok so far. Thoughts?

tescrin

10-26-2015, 06:26 PM

Hi guys, I recently added a Liliana of the Veil and cut a Thalia. And its been working better than ok so far. Thoughts?

Double black seems a bit obnoxious for this deck. You also may have issues finding cards you want to discard for value (in Junk/Jund this typically comes in the form of Dead cards or cards that recur themselves, like Lingering Souls.)

I feel like if you're cutting cards for liliana, Thalia is the unforunately correct choice; but I think you'll find you'll miss the "free wins" thalia gives; even though Liliana gives you some herself.

Also, non-tutorable 1-ofs (non-green non-equips) in non-blue decks always seems super weak to me unless you're using it as a 5th card (Pulse next to decay) or it's a "if I see two of these, I lose" kind of card (Loam, Karakas.)

EDIT: I mention this semi-frequently; but I used to extensively use KotR in Junk next to Liliana, and even with DRS, and sometimes GSZ; the mana can get really obnoxious against Delver. As a 1-of, maybe that's fine; but it's also really random.

Koby

10-26-2015, 09:04 PM

Hi guys, I recently added a Liliana of the Veil and cut a Thalia. And its been working better than ok so far. Thoughts?

To really capitalize on Liliana, you probably want to play Junk or some other :g::b:-centric deck with a smaller :w: splash for key spells (Swords to Plowshares, SFM).

bakofried

10-26-2015, 09:06 PM

Seems like Shardless is everywhere. Any recommended cards there, apart from Sigarda in the flex slot?

Koby

10-26-2015, 09:12 PM

Seems like Shardless is everywhere. Any recommended cards there, apart from Sigarda in the flex slot?

Keeping up with their card advantage may be tricky. Courser and Sylvan Library will help. Scryb Ranger to get some more impact from Mother of Runes and Knight. Life from the Loam can help from the SB to keep up with their endless stream of cards. Invalidating Goyf and providing numerous blockers will help. Perhaps even a 2nd Scavenging Ooze. Using more Abrupt Decays or possibly Maelstrom Pulse (to round up to Jaces) might be warranted if you can squeeze in more spells than normal.

sdematt

10-26-2015, 11:19 PM

Ooze is huge in controlling their Goyfs in that matchup, and Sword of Feast and Famine, if you're playing it, is the trump. I like Scryb for sneaking past Strix if they're still playing it.

Multiple Libraries is also pretty key.

-Matt

Gabuts007

10-27-2015, 03:45 AM

Double black seems a bit obnoxious for this deck. You also may have issues finding cards you want to discard for value (in Junk/Jund this typically comes in the form of Dead cards or cards that recur themselves, like Lingering Souls.)

I feel like if you're cutting cards for liliana, Thalia is the unforunately correct choice; but I think you'll find you'll miss the "free wins" thalia gives; even though Liliana gives you some herself.

Also, non-tutorable 1-ofs (non-green non-equips) in non-blue decks always seems super weak to me unless you're using it as a 5th card (Pulse next to decay) or it's a "if I see two of these, I lose" kind of card (Loam, Karakas.)

EDIT: I mention this semi-frequently; but I used to extensively use KotR in Junk next to Liliana, and even with DRS, and sometimes GSZ; the mana can get really obnoxious against Delver. As a 1-of, maybe that's fine; but it's also really random.

Yeah double black is a pain in the ass, so I cut a Cradle (since having it in your opening hand kinda sucks) I just miss the cast/equip a sword trick. Then I added another Bayou so 2 bayou, 1 scrubland and 3 DRS for black sources. Seems to work out so far.

And yeah the Shardless bug matchup is hard. They seem to be out "midranging" us. I haven't won against them since my last 2 tournaments. Time to go Sofaf I guess.

sdematt

10-27-2015, 03:58 AM

Choke is a real card with all their Seas and stuff.

Having a 4-turn time bomb of a Draw 3 is pretty good. It's why I've suggested Painful Truths in this deck, but I'm not sure it's the right fit. Part of the problem is also Toxic Deluge. That card is a fucking beating.

-Matt

pettdan

10-27-2015, 04:27 AM

I was thinking of trying a second Jitte to combat Shardless, they can't Decay everything. ..or well, sometimes it seems like it. And 2 Chokes.

Gabuts007

10-27-2015, 05:04 AM

I was thinking of trying a second Jitte to combat Shardless, they can't Decay everything. ..or well, sometimes it seems like it. And 2 Chokes.

They can still wiggle their way even when I got a Choke in play with their bayou and basic swamp/forest plus DRS. Deluge and Ancestral Vision is their trump card against Maverick.

Fl0do

10-27-2015, 05:08 AM

Vs. Shardless Bug I try to get a fast Scavenging Ooze or Knight of the Reliquary, protected by Mother of Runes. Keep in mind that an uncracked fetchland makes Liliana of the Veil a lot less scarier. From my sideboard I always bring in more Removal and Pithing Needles, if I see some Baleful Strix some -1/-1 effects come in too. I think Planeswalkers and Armageddon/Cataclysm may help in the grind too.

@THerzog41: Will there be a report or some thoughts on your list? :)

Stuuch

10-27-2015, 07:05 AM

I have a question for you Thomas. What were your 2 last sideboard cards at the SCG open? Starcity listed only 13 cards in your sideboard. 2x Zealous Persecution? Congrats for an impressive run.

Seraphix

10-27-2015, 08:28 AM

Seems like Shardless is everywhere. Any recommended cards there, apart from Sigarda in the flex slot?

Great Sable Stag baby! I played it in a few tournaments a while back when True-Name was big and discovered its actually very hard for Shardless to interact with. It was also reasonable against Miracles. Probably too narrow to justify a slot though.

sdematt

10-27-2015, 09:58 AM

Sigarda is also a tank.

oSeabass

10-27-2015, 10:00 AM

Don't know if it is relevant or if anyone mentioned it, but there was a Bant style list that got 4th in the last SCG (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/reliquary_retreat_with_steven_.html). It seems more like a "Bant Midrange" then a Maverick since it doesn't even run Thalia because it has its own share of Brainstorm/Daze/Force. It does run 4 Knight, 4 mana dorks (3 Noble, 1 BoP), 1 Sigarda, 1 Pridemage, StP, and Library which makes it kind of overlap. I know we don't go down the Bant path here since it has its own space, but I think there are things in this list that are interesting from a Maverick pov.

1. Kessig Wolf Run:
In a Punishing Maverick red based build we probably can't make DRS work as well and we lose Abrupt Decay. We gain reach and burn like Punishing Fire. If we run a Cradle already and can produce a non 0 amount of mana, could Wolf Run provide a way to attack into a TNN?

This also makes me think of other Red based lands we could try out. The non Scapeshift land based deck in Modern looks to Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion (2RW tap: double strike) and Slayers' Stronghold (RW tap: +2/0, vigilance, haste). With that deck that use Amulet triggers to generate a lot of mana really quick to cast like a turn 2 Primeval Titan to do further shenanigans with. I think Sunhome is too expensive for us but Slayers' Stronghold seems cheap enough. Radiant Fountain is used there to gain life, but this can be recurred and I don't think it fits well with us unless you run Life from the Loam.

All this being said, I am not sure if just making a 20/20 ML token is just strictly better.

2. Retreat to Coralhelm:
We discussed this as a combo card with Knight but didn't think the manabase could support the black and blue. He was able to use this and fetchlands to make a decent amount of mana and then make a Kessig Big Knight and lethal swing. See #1. I still would like to see how the White Retreat works since it gives play against Miracles in uncounterable tokens to chump or attack.

3. Sejiri Steppe:
Probably not what we are looking for seeing as it is a enter tap land which is not great in an opener (can't even cast t1 Mom). Just makes me wanna look back and find other lands I may not have tried or been aware of.

Whitefaces

10-27-2015, 10:35 AM

Sigarda is also a tank.

I love Sigarda, I really do, but Strix makes her look a bit silly.

Pellefant

10-27-2015, 10:49 AM

If you want to improve the BUG shardless matchup I would suggest running a punishing maverick build with the cards already suggested by others (Sigarda, 2 Sylvan Library, 1 of Courser, etc). Wilt-Leaf Liege is also pretty nice.
Punishing Fire helps alot since it's good vs discard, planeswalkers and the smaller creatures in the deck (DRS, strix, agent).

Whitefaces

10-27-2015, 11:01 AM

tescrin

10-27-2015, 12:51 PM

Seems like Shardless is everywhere. Any recommended cards there, apart from Sigarda in the flex slot?

I 2-0'd James Nguyen a couple weeks ago in Junk (which is a little different due to Bob/Lily); however what I found was quite boss was Bitterblossom (experimental to me at the time.) That + Goyf was the thing I was attempting to test; but I found Blossom holds it's own just fine as an all round brutal card. Helps against Miracles, D&T, and basically any non-burn non-combo deck. Being only 2 mana makes it quite feasible next to Thalia (another reason I was testing it) and it's straight amazing with Equips; for obvious reasons.

The obvious negative being that it double-pumps goyfs; and if you're not running Goyfs; it's probably not for you..

In the past I've also used Kjeldoran Outpost to good effect. I added it for the Miracles matchup; where it was basically garbage (too slow.) But.. it worked wonders on fair decks on a blank board state; or against Liliana, Jace, etc..

Fetchable with KotR and you can sac a tapped land to produce the mana to then make your first dude. It's better than the atrocious garbage it looks; but I was also running Loam at the time... so I didn't care if I sac'd a land.

If it's not been made obvious; I test a lot of Jank for the purposes of learning; sometimes it works out.

Going back; another brutal card you can try is Hero of Bladehold. Immune to 2/3rds of removal; pretty castable in this deck; and immediately swallows the board in tokens you can equip. She ends the game in 2 swings and she's been used in DGA; which has 1/3rd the accel this deck has. (DRS, as opposed to DRS + Birds/Hierarch/Arbor + GSZ + KOTR)

I can understand you guys would rather run Titania due to GSZ; but 4 mana vs. 6 mana is a HUGE difference.

EDIT:
As an aside; if you're in Red; Shattering Spree isn't bad (or ancient grudge.) Rabblemaster is another "better kill me quick" who can eat walkers. If you gear towards basics/mana-dorks you could also go the Blood Moon route and probably invent a Deck-archtype. If going that route; Land Grant is a "fetch land" that gets you around blood moon.

Gabuts007

10-27-2015, 05:04 PM

That's the reason why I play the bird, it also taps for black mana (without needing the graveyard), which is important sometimes. It paid off so far :)

Hey man are you still using birds? Are you on 3 DRS, 1 NH and 1 BoP?
I'm planning to go 3 DRS, 2 BoP for the double black of LotV

Fl0do

10-27-2015, 05:40 PM

I'm still playing 1 Bird and 4 Deathrite Shaman along 2 Bayous and 1 Scrubland as black producing lands (2 savannahs, 1 forest, 1 plains, 7 fetchlands).

What's your reasoning for LotV? I'm curious :)

Warden

10-27-2015, 08:01 PM

I got 75th (5-3-1) at Eternal Extravaganza #3 this past weekend. Lots of fun. I probably could have done better, but honestly I haven't played Magic in months (life, weddings to attend, etc). I had a fucking blast. Not sure if folks care what I ran. I'll post details if anyone wants.

Creatures (24)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells (15)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (22 + Arbor)
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

SB
2 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg #2
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Rest in Peace
1 Null Rod
1 Choke
1 Batterskull
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Toxic Deluge

*** Quick Notes ***
- Eternal Extravaganza #3 was insane. Thank god for Caffrey throwing this. And props to basically everyone there being chill. The lack of douchebags was greatly appreciated by everyone.
- This was my first time in competition trying 4 dorks instead of 5 (noble/DRS split). In 2 games (through 9 rounds) mana was an issue. DRS won me a few games due to the B ping ability.
- 0 Courser because I did not fear burn. Lots of DnT/Delver shenanigans in the room.
- Tasigur was a fucking house. On paper he sucks. IRL he stole a few games. He came in exactly as expected: late game when I either run out of steam or against decks that leave me with a dead board until I'm able to cast him. He usually cost 3 mana. A few games he came out for B. Literally shits on opponents when his ability is activated. Specifically, one game he came in as a surprise and his ability immediately revealed batterskull + decay. Backbreaking for the opponent to handle that.
- 4 Knights 4 Life. I don't understand how or why people are shaving this down to 3. You win the game untapping with her. I stole round 1 by randomly drawing 3 against DnT. They can't handle their lands being nuked.
- Scavenging Ooze kicked so much ass. 2 in the main was the correct call. 1 usually gets countered/shot down.
- Sigarda in the board was the right call. Not MD material. I am debating if she's a new staple for the 75/76. As of today, she's an auto-SB card alongside Teeg and Canonist.
- Batterskull should have been MD with L/S in the SB. Mistakes were made.
- Cavern of Souls AND Choke both did nothing (never saw it when I brought it in).
- Sideboards need to pack Krosan Grip or Wear/Tear. I wanted another spell that removed arts/enchants indiscriminately (ie; not decay #4). QPM #3 also a possibility.
- Small E.Tutor SB worked well. RIP ate dredge. Again, it's the definitive GY answer. Null Rod ate Painter. Again, wish Choke was relevant/was seen in the matchups I brought it in. I could have had Meekstone, Needle, Revoker, or Banishing Light/O-Ring in Choke's place. A small 4 or 5 card toolbox for "I play this thing and it's GG" worked well against a developed field.\
- Debating if I want Loam.

Jon

10-27-2015, 09:55 PM

I hate Batterskull in the main, it's so often a dead card.

I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

Gabuts007

10-28-2015, 02:26 AM

Fl0do

10-28-2015, 02:59 AM

Lol, you meant Liliana of the Veil. I was thinking you're on Leyline of the Void :laugh:

Not sure what I should think about Liliana, Maverick neither plays cards which synergizes with the discard ability nor fits Lily with the taxing ability of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Double Black in the mana cost constraints the mana base to a certain degree too.
Vs. Control I'm fully into playing real bombs like Garruk, Elspeth, Nahiri or Armageddon, Cataclysm, Choke. Usually it's enough to play a critical number of Gaddock Teegs, Sylvan Library and Stoneforge Mystics backed up by uncounterable removal (Krosan Grip, Abrupt Decay) and Pithing Needle. A miser's Cavern of Souls helps too.

Wintersmith

10-28-2015, 07:40 AM

Warden

10-28-2015, 07:13 PM

I hate Batterskull in the main, it's so often a dead card.

Games are going so long against everything. You have the ability to drop batterskull and just push out. I also had so much mana I could have easily cast batterskull almost every game (barring the few where my mana never appeared).

@Wintersmith
Did you have enough removal in all games?
-Against most decks, I had 1-2 pieces within the opening 2 turns. That's a fair ratio IMHO. The matchups I needed sweepers I could have gone for a 5th. This event confirms my belief in running 5. Maybe 4 and the 4th STP. Against swarm decks I needed sweepers to keep pace.

Seems quite like the list I've been playing. Probably due me copying the list from here... I try to keep my list as basic as possible, no fancy techs. 22+1 land and 4 DRS were enough?
-I kinda want Scryb Ranger back in the mix, although she's garbage by herself.
-I always run 22+arbor as lands
-4 DRS was interesting. I learned to adjust my style of play to accommodate the lack of Noble Hierarch as the event wore on. Deathrite is mandatory in the format. 1/2 my games Deathrite needed another land in the grave. Usually once I hit 3 natural mana I was rolling. My immediate fix is to drop Cavern for either another dual or another fetch. If I was scared of wasteland, I'd perhaps run another plains.

How many times you got Sylvan Library to stick?
-Almost every game. It beat DnT, BG Pox, 1 delver game, and Painter by itself. Some decks literally can't compete with it. I've learned to be more aggressive with it. Sometimes burning 4 or 8 life just to have cards and continue being "ahead" wins.
-The times Sylvan was countered, it came at a VERY high expense of blue decks using FoW-pitching-something relevant (another counter, daze, TNN, etc)

Any insights or stories about matches appreciated, if you can spare time and energy to write them.
-I'll see if I can work on that.
-My main insight is to try Tasigur. He was unbelievably strong. Against DnT, bring in all the sweepers and don't be afraid to blow one if they have 2 or 3 dorks on the table. They can't recover whatsoever. Also, don't be afraid to wasteland the shit out of their manabase. I won a game in blowout fashion because he was held off 3 lands and lacked Vial.

anwei

10-29-2015, 08:35 PM

Don't know if it is relevant or if anyone mentioned it, but there was a Bant style list that got 4th in the last SCG (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/reliquary_retreat_with_steven_.html). It seems more like a "Bant Midrange" then a Maverick since it doesn't even run Thalia because it has its own share of Brainstorm/Daze/Force. It does run 4 Knight, 4 mana dorks (3 Noble, 1 BoP), 1 Sigarda, 1 Pridemage, StP, and Library which makes it kind of overlap. I know we don't go down the Bant path here since it has its own space, but I think there are things in this list that are interesting from a Maverick pov.

This was my list, and I created a thread for it (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30043-Brave-Sir-Robin-(Bant-Knight-Retreat)) if anyone is interested.

As a note in this context, I'll add that a more Maverick-style plan may or may not be a stronger deck, as it certainly shores up the greater weaknesses of the deck (over-dependance on Knight) and that deck's combo plan (FoW to stall until permanent-based disruption) probably costs fair matches and doesn't even do a great job against the combo decks. FWIW, I do think the red-splash and Wolf Run are almost necessary. Planning on Knight-rotating through the whole deck really leaves you at the mercy of a couple DRS activations or meager lifegain (StP even, not just Batterskull connecting), while red beats TNN and can be quite strong with Knight if you haven't found Retreat. Obviously that's a pretty serious strain on the manabase, so DRS probably has to go, perhaps on the way toward a Punishing Fire build.

oSeabass

10-30-2015, 08:49 AM

This was my list, and I created a thread for it (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30043-Brave-Sir-Robin-(Bant-Knight-Retreat)) if anyone is interested.

As a note in this context, I'll add that a more Maverick-style plan may or may not be a stronger deck, as it certainly shores up the greater weaknesses of the deck (over-dependance on Knight) and that deck's combo plan (FoW to stall until permanent-based disruption) probably costs fair matches and doesn't even do a great job against the combo decks. FWIW, I do think the red-splash and Wolf Run are almost necessary. Planning on Knight-rotating through the whole deck really leaves you at the mercy of a couple DRS activations or meager lifegain (StP even, not just Batterskull connecting), while red beats TNN and can be quite strong with Knight if you haven't found Retreat. Obviously that's a pretty serious strain on the manabase, so DRS probably has to go, perhaps on the way toward a Punishing Fire build.

Yea I was thinking more back to the Punishing Maverick builds of old (before DRS if I can recall). I personally have not looked at the Gr creatures enough since I never had the money for Groves. I would be curious what 1-3 drop creatures we could use in a red splash. I'll take a look in my spare time and see if there are any interesting dudes we could GSZ for. Even with this, I don't know how much better the Red splash is versus the Black. Black gives DRS and ADecay which is real strong, enough to where my stubborn GW build may start having the black splash. The only real good things on the top of my head from Red is Wolf Run and recurring removal at 2 dmg which seems to be a sweet spot in this format.

Seraphix

10-30-2015, 02:13 PM

Yea I was thinking more back to the Punishing Maverick builds of old (before DRS if I can recall). I personally have not looked at the Gr creatures enough since I never had the money for Groves. I would be curious what 1-3 drop creatures we could use in a red splash. I'll take a look in my spare time and see if there are any interesting dudes we could GSZ for. Even with this, I don't know how much better the Red splash is versus the Black. Black gives DRS and ADecay which is real strong, enough to where my stubborn GW build may start having the black splash. The only real good things on the top of my head from Red is Wolf Run and recurring removal at 2 dmg which seems to be a sweet spot in this format.

The list of GR creatures maybe worth playing is very short. The only one I even tested was Huntmaster of the Fells, which was underwhelming. There is a long list of utility lands I would play before Wolf-Run. Punishing Maverick is basically a GW deck. The only Red cards I've ever played in it are Punishing Fire, Pyroblast, Domri Rade, and Electrickery. In many matchups there are zero Red cards in your deck post-board.

As Pellefant brought up last page, Punishing Fire is very strong against Shardless and a lot of other fair decks that are crawling out of the woodwork with the Dig banning. You lose some ground to combo without Thoughtseize, but you still have the same hatebears and Blasts can do some work against Sneak & Show for example. I would bring Punishing Maverick to a tournament tomorrow without a second thought if I was a competent Maverick player.

tescrin

10-30-2015, 02:17 PM

I think Wolf-Run is pretty boss as an EoT fetch. Give your 10/10 trample and lay waste. Then again, PFire covers most everything you'd need to trample over.

bakofried

10-30-2015, 02:48 PM

You mean P. Fire kills everything except for the one thing I'd actually want to trample over (TNN).

Rascalyote

10-31-2015, 05:25 AM

I don't travel much for events and I'm no pro or anything, but I've been playing Maverick for a while and it's been treating me fairly well locally ('Cept when sdematt rolls out the rhinos x.x). I'll be taking it to the GP in Tacoma as this is the only legacy deck I play regularly.

Most likely playing this 75

Creatures-23

4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary

'Spells'-14

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Lands-23

4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

SB-15

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Krosan Grip (Tempted to make this a 3rd Decay...)
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle

Jon

10-31-2015, 12:21 PM

I would really want a Cradle in this list to help cast Elspeth under a Thalia, plus the synergies with SFM + Cast + Equip turns.

I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

tescrin

10-31-2015, 02:21 PM

I feel like Elspeth should be Titania, Protector of Argoth if using the Cradle; so you don't have to deal with WW. Titania is a far larger "fatty" effect too; although i could understand Elspeth if hedging against miracles. But then. why not Nissa, Worldwaker. Making hasted 4/4s with trample is much better than making 1/1s; also synergizes with crazy untapping and Cradle.

Come to think of it; why is no one using her?

Warden

10-31-2015, 03:30 PM

@Rascalyote: Drop Elspeth. She's terrible right now (counters, burn, tokens, etc). I would 100% run another Library or Scooze instead.

ironclad8690

11-02-2015, 09:29 PM

Going hard in the legacy daily event tonight:

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Rafiq of the Many

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
3 Meddling Mage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
2 Path to Exile
2 Armageddon
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

I have no idea how this will go, but I will get some good testing in and let you guys know.

Edit: I will explain some choices:

1) Rafiq: I just have the most fun playing this guy. You can win out of nowhere and sometimes 1 attack step is all it takes vs Miracles or something like that. The original Brave Sir Robin list ran Kessig Wolf Run, but I think with Mom in the deck you don't really need to worry about trample or a 4th color, just protect and win (you will have extra coralhelm untap triggers by the time your knight is lethal anyways, not to mention uncracked fetches in play, so using mom super proactively is not a problem with coralhelm).

2) Retreat to Coralhelm might be able to replace Sylvan Library. They are sort of in the same category, and scrying can be sometimes act as a replacement for drawing at the cost of life. Also, it might be nice to have 4 just for the combo factor.

3) Lack of Thalia: I am the least sure about this. I think she is actually a necessity, but I wanted to streamline the combo plan. This is too costly in a lot of matchups though.

4) Maverick instead of Bant Midrange: Meh, hatebears are way more effective vs combo than countermagic from my experience. I would rather resolve a hatebear than a force of will 9 times out of ten vs most combo decks anyways, and like Steve said FOW does have it's negative connotations in the fair matchups.

ironclad8690

11-03-2015, 12:51 AM

http://i.imgur.com/lXSyLgo.jpg

We got there boys (by the skin of our teeth in that elves matchup, but I made a mistake earlier by misclicking and gaining two life with Jitte, so it was closer than it had to be).

TES 2-1
Infect 0-2
Grixis Delver 2-1
Elves 2-1

I am not sure what to do with the list, Rafiq actually came in really handy vs combo by speeding up my clock by basically a million, but I don't know if it is worth a slot.

Sejiri Steppe randomly got a creature through with a Jitte in the elves matchup, so there is some natural power there. It is pretty nice to have a literal instant win by untapping with knight and playing a coralhelm.

Cartesian

11-03-2015, 03:58 AM

Wintersmith

11-03-2015, 06:36 AM

Wintersmith's Maverick 02.11.15

[DECK]Lands
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary

Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

Sideboard
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Krosan Grip

I took this list to a 3-round event yesterday.
G1 Faced off vs. Stax to a 1-1-1 result. Both win and loss were due mulliganing (G1 had to go 5) and mana problems, caused by Wasteland and/or Thalia/Lodestone Golem/Sphere of Resistance. We took whole 50 mins to 2 games. SB out 2 StP, Jitte (g3 also Moms), in Decays, KGrip.

G2 was vs. UR Delver/Young Pyromancer/True-name Nemesis deck. Result was also 1-1-1. G1 made a mistake thinking my opponent played Burn. I played Mom, he bolted it. I didn't even notice that he played an Island and Dazed my Thalia. I lost pretty much at that point, even though I managed to get SCooze, DRS, Gaddock w/SoLaS and a Knight vs. Delver, 2 Pyromancers, 2 TNN and couple of elementals. One missed DRS activation, opp was left with 4 life after my last charge and I still had untapped DRS. G2 rnd 1 DRS, rnd 2 SoFaI (opponent responded w/ Null Rod on his turn), ZP took unflipped Delver, Pyromancer and token. Knight and an intense game of magic I managed to win. Last round went to time and draw.
Sb: in 2x ZP, 2 Decay, out: QP, Gaddock, Library, something.

G3 was vs. Lands (afaik). G1, he rolled over me w/Loam engine, showing Bojuga Bog, removing my guys and getting Punishing Fire engine going (notice anything about my creatures...) and Marit Lageing me. G2 I got Sylvan Library, forgot to use it once, but getting guys into zone and beating face. Got Thalia, Knight, ate 3 PF's in one shot with a DRS and GSZ'd Scooze.
M3 was from his pov a turn 1 Sylvan Library w/ Mox Diamond. He didn't get a Loam engine going, had Tabernacle in play and I managed to get him to 2 life, but then missed Tabernacle after my Cradle had been Wasted. I didn't want to go back to upkeep after drawing and my Thalia, Hierarch and Knight were destroyed. I played a SFM, got a sword, passed turn and on my next upkeep forgot Tabernacle again. Opponent put Marit Lage in play (I had over 20 life at that point, so I could have survived one attack). Just because I could, I StP:d the token. Opponent went through the motions and made another Marit Lage. Sb: In Pithing Needles, out Jitte and something.

I tried a new things, learned several hard lessons, found fatal flaw(s) in this list and a got in few good games of magic. I'm preparing for local Legacy Championships, so I have been reading this thread a lot, watched scg event coverages from youtube, mainly those featuring Maverick and looked into other stuff which might help.

Edit: I won against Stax w/Wastelanding a Factory twice, even though opponent had a Crucible of Worlds in play and vs. Lands by Wasteing a Maze of Ith though opponent had LftL going. Both times this enabled a Knight to attack unopposed.

tescrin

11-03-2015, 01:09 PM

Not bad.
I would probably look into maindecking some number of Meddling Mage as a replacement for Thalia. Naming Terminus is a half decent plan against Miracles.

Buried Ruin as a way to return equipment from graveyard and equip Knight during combo might also be worth considering.

I've tried Buried Ruin before and I think it's pretty weak. If you have Blue mana already, you may as well use Academy Ruins. I agree with MM on Terminus since if you put out 2 threats, they can still only 1-for-1.

Wintersmith

11-04-2015, 07:11 AM

ryrk

11-06-2015, 03:31 PM

Is there a post anywhere with some kind of list of suggested sideboarding plans vs. different decks? I'm aware that I should figure them out myself, depending on my md and local meta, but I feel I need a kind of kickstart on the matter. I can usually figure out what to bring in, but weeding out the less useful cards from md is the problem. I have found plans for few matchups here, so maybe I just have to start digging deeper.

Could you post your 75, or do you just want general suggestions?

--

Is anyone else just not impressed with Abrupt Decay? It feels at its best as an answer to Liliana. Qasali hits everything else that we're worried about, which is mostly equipment. I haven't put Decay in my 75 for a long time now, and it really hasn't been a problem, but my metagame is all sorts of weird. Mostly Miracles/DnT/Nic Fit/Fair nonsense, some Storm/SnS. No Delver(!).

3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Sylvan Library

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Pithing Needle

Good luck to everyone going to GP SeaTec!

ironclad8690

11-06-2015, 03:36 PM

Is anyone else just not impressed with Abrupt Decay? It feels at its best as an answer to Liliana. Qasali hits everything else that we're worried about, which is mostly equipment. I haven't put Decay in my 75 for a long time now, and it really hasn't been a problem, but my metagame is all sorts of weird. Mostly Miracles/DnT/Nic Fit/Fair nonsense, some Storm/SnS. No Delver(!).

I have actually been liking Path to Exile more lately, though you do lose points against counterbalance.

Is there a post anywhere with some kind of list of suggested sideboarding plans vs. different decks? I'm aware that I should figure them out myself, depending on my md and local meta, but I feel I need a kind of kickstart on the matter. I can usually figure out what to bring in, but weeding out the less useful cards from md is the problem. I have found plans for few matchups here, so maybe I just have to start digging deeper.

You want to board out STP vs most control decks like blade and miracles. You can also take out some number of moms and or mana dorks vs decks with sweepers, because they will give your opp. more value.

Vs Tempo decks, usually qasali pridemage is pretty bad (unless it is UWR delver, but I haven't seen that around), and sylvan library can be too slow against the faster UR/x delver decks.

Vs combo decks, you can cut STP for Thoughtseize, and also cut some of the utility guys like Courser and Pridemage. Vs Elves you definitely want STP though. Keep some number of Mother of Runes to protect hatebears from removal or bounce.

Vs Midrange decks, you are pretty well set up with the mainboard, but you will want to bring out some number of smaller dorks that increase your weakness to -x/-x effects (lookin at you noble hierarch). Qasali isn't that good vs these decks, but you will want 1 for Night of Souls' Betrayal or E Plague. You will want to bring in any outs to Punishing Fire vs decks like Jund (grave hate).

Vs Loam based decks, you can cut some of the stuff that gets picked off by p fire (not DRS though, he is too good vs lands) and STP for more specific hate.

As a more general rule, you can cut the equipment that does least in a given matchup. Sword of Light and Shadow is great vs control and in weird scenarios like Enchantress (with QPM forever), but it isn't really the best vs tempo or combo. Sword of Fire and Ice is basically always good because it really increases your clock vs combo, gives relevant protections vs Bolt or TNN decks. Jitte is too slow for combo, but great against most everything else. Some people cut jitte vs miracles, but I like having as many ways of making a small creature dangerous in that matchup.

Wintersmith

11-07-2015, 06:52 AM

My local meta consists at least of Miracles, Punishing Blue(?), Wr D&T, Canadian Threshold, UR/BURG Delvers, 1-2 Burn, Stax, Fish/Goblins, S&T and sometimes randoms.

Last thursday I played vs.
Hexmage Depths (2-0),

Stax (2-0),

Miracles (0-2, g1, couldn't put enough pressure or get threats to stick, g2 I didn't KGrip his Top when I had the chance, he played another and Mentor+tokens took the game 1st time I played against mentor, really bad sb mistake taking all StoPs out)

D&T (1-2, G1, mulligans due land, I knew his deck. Kept Fetch, Waste, GSZ, Thalia and something, fetched Forest, next turn played Waste and GSZ for Hierarch, who got plowed, then opp Wasted Waste, played Thalia, I didn't get land, opp played SFM for BS. I scooped. G2 Moms on both sides, Jittes on both sides, couple of creatures killed. Opp has Magus of the Moon w/Jitte, I topdeck NH, equip Jitte w/1 Counter. Opp attacks, loses MotM. Scoops. G3 Opp Vial into MoR-Thalia-Mirran Crusader w/Jitte onslaugh. GG.

This was the list I played.

Deck: Wintersmith's Maverick 05.11.15 (60)

// Lands
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Courser of Kruphix

// Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Armageddon
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll

Warden

11-07-2015, 03:45 PM

...Is anyone else just not impressed with Abrupt Decay? It feels at its best as an answer to Liliana. Qasali hits everything else that we're worried about, which is mostly equipment. I haven't put Decay in my 75 for a long time now, and it really hasn't been a problem, but my metagame is all sorts of weird. Mostly Miracles/DnT/Nic Fit/Fair nonsense, some Storm/SnS. No Delver(!).

This is literally the opposite of how I feel about the card. I don't want a deck that isn't running DRS and Decay in it right now. With miracles shifting to Mentor + Thresh/Delver decks back in droves, Decay + dork army is a good plan.

Barook

11-07-2015, 03:50 PM

In a list with DRS, Scavenging Ooze, Courser, SFM + Jitte + SoLaS, would 1-2 copies of Karlov be viable?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/80/781/200/283/635822776133256694.png

I'm aware that he's more of a vanilla beater (hard to tell how often his sword ability would actually come up) and can't be tutored with GSZ. With either Ooze or Courser + fetches, things could escalate rather quickly.

Wintersmith

11-07-2015, 05:12 PM

ryrk

11-07-2015, 08:22 PM

This is literally the opposite of how I feel about the card. I don't want a deck that isn't running DRS and Decay in it right now. With miracles shifting to Mentor + Thresh/Delver decks back in droves, Decay + dork army is a good plan.

Out of the 5ish Miracles players in the area, not one is running a Mentor. They're all still on the Jace/Entreat wincons. I'm sure I would like Decay a lot more if they do switch over to the Mentor plan, but right now the only relevant targets in the maindeck are the Counterbalances.

Ositosupe

11-09-2015, 06:54 AM

TMagpie

11-09-2015, 01:18 PM

This is literally the opposite of how I feel about the card. I don't want a deck that isn't running DRS and Decay in it right now. With miracles shifting to Mentor + Thresh/Delver decks back in droves, Decay + dork army is a good plan.

I hate decay. I hate the black splash in general and feel that GW is much smoother and more aggressive in every way. But Miracles is stronger than ever now that other Dig Decks aren't holding it down and the thought of cutting the 2 best ways we have to fight the deck is just ludicrous. 4 Deathrites and 2 Abrupt Decay will be stuck in Maverick's 75 until Miracles stops getting better every year.

tescrin

11-09-2015, 02:00 PM

the thought of cutting the 2 best ways we have to fight the deck is just ludicrous. 4 Deathrites and 2 Abrupt Decay will be stuck in Maverick's 75 until Miracles stops getting better every year.
IMO, Sylvan Library is the best 2 cards in the deck. I think if Maverick can find other problem non-creature permanents it is willing to play that are obnoxious to get rid of for miracles (planeswalkers, enchants or strange token-makers) that's where it's best hope lies.

I don't know how the 3rd Library sdeMatt was running treated him, but I think going deeper into the realm of how to put miracles on the back foot is the right answer. Going for Reclamation Sage may be better as well. 3-drop for Counterbalance, mono-color for Blood Moon, Card Advantage so that they probably have to answer the sage.

I get that QPM beats are nifty; but it may be time people at least start testing the CA route of Sage as I have to imagine the 1-power you occasionally get is less clutch than a free 2/1 you can equip for game who naturally (probably) dodges counterbalance; especially in a deck with 9 main-deck ramps.

Even in other MUs, just killing a Baleful Strix so you can swing with Knight should be a clutch move, and against D&T or other Stoneforge Decks; seems good.

TMagpie

11-09-2015, 05:39 PM

IMO, Sylvan Library is the best 2 cards in the deck. I think if Maverick can find other problem non-creature permanents it is willing to play that are obnoxious to get rid of for miracles (planeswalkers, enchants or strange token-makers) that's where it's best hope lies.

I don't know how the 3rd Library sdeMatt was running treated him, but I think going deeper into the realm of how to put miracles on the back foot is the right answer. Going for Reclamation Sage may be better as well. 3-drop for Counterbalance, mono-color for Blood Moon, Card Advantage so that they probably have to answer the sage.

I get that QPM beats are nifty; but it may be time people at least start testing the CA route of Sage as I have to imagine the 1-power you occasionally get is less clutch than a free 2/1 you can equip for game who naturally (probably) dodges counterbalance; especially in a deck with 9 main-deck ramps.

Even in other MUs, just killing a Baleful Strix so you can swing with Knight should be a clutch move, and against D&T or other Stoneforge Decks; seems good.

I used to play Uktabi Orangutan pre-Rec Sage days. This card is legit--specifically because it can target low priority targets for value without putting you behind on the board. Aether Vial, Pithing Needle, and even tapping out for Green Sun in order to dodge a counterbalance trigger are all good value.

Wintersmith

11-10-2015, 03:20 AM

I will play this week a legacy event and use my dark maverick, low testing but deck gives me a good feeling, thanks for all opinions.

creatures

4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Dark Confidant

Other

4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

Lands

4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor

RiP, Bojuga Bog (from Lands), opposing DRS, SCooze make you vulnerable to Punishing Fire. Your highest toughness besides Marit Lage (which can be bounced w/Karakas or Wasted before getting in into play) is 2. Happened to me lately. So you might wan't to put something in MD w/toughness above 2. SB is also important, so you might want add it too for scrutiny.

Ositosupe

11-10-2015, 06:54 AM

tescrin

11-10-2015, 12:13 PM

RiP, Bojuga Bog (from Lands), opposing DRS, SCooze make you vulnerable to Punishing Fire. Your highest toughness besides Marit Lage (which can be bounced w/Karakas or Wasted before getting in into play) is 2. Happened to me lately. So you might wan't to put something in MD w/toughness above 2. SB is also important, so you might want add it too for scrutiny.

Is this just an advertisement for courser? IMO, KotR and Scooze are both fine against PFire (fetch/grow in response), as is Mom and DRS (soft counters). It also would feel stupid to go through the trouble of fetching courser at 4 mana when the opponent is roughly at the point they can double-Pfire or just Decay/Lily it away. Having been on both ends of KotR vs Bog and and GWB vs. Pfire I can say that KotR is obnoxious to actually keep small. If untapped he often grows to a 5/5 or 6/6. Decks running RiP (basically just D&T, Stoneblade, and meta decks) don't run PFire, for obvious reasons; and if you're worried about Thalia, you have your own, and Mom, and board wipes in the side.

The only others I can think of you'd be talking about are Sigarda, BSK, Thrun, or Goyf; which all have people who like/dislike them. In his case he's gone for the Depths package as a late-game gotcha instead of the above.

Asthereal

11-10-2015, 12:42 PM

Worried about Jund? I believe Sigarda is rather hard for them to handle. :wink:

(PS. I actually play Sigarda over the Stage/Depths combo because it improves more troublesome matchups.)

Jon

11-10-2015, 01:09 PM

Worried about Jund? I believe Sigarda is rather hard for them to handle. :wink:

(PS. I actually play Sigarda over the Stage/Depths combo because it improves more troublesome matchups.)

We have a winner.

I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

Wintersmith

11-10-2015, 04:50 PM

Is this just an advertisement for courser? IMO, KotR and Scooze are both fine against PFire (fetch/grow in response), as is Mom and DRS (soft counters). It also would feel stupid to go through the trouble of fetching courser at 4 mana when the opponent is roughly at the point they can double-Pfire or just Decay/Lily it away. Having been on both ends of KotR vs Bog and and GWB vs. Pfire I can say that KotR is obnoxious to actually keep small. If untapped he often grows to a 5/5 or 6/6. Decks running RiP (basically just D&T, Stoneblade, and meta decks) don't run PFire, for obvious reasons; and if you're worried about Thalia, you have your own, and Mom, and board wipes in the side.

The only others I can think of you'd be talking about are Sigarda, BSK, Thrun, or Goyf; which all have people who like/dislike them. In his case he's gone for the Depths package as a late-game gotcha instead of the above.

Thanks for thorough answer, tescrin. Just gave another pov to consider. I didn't think through all those color combinations, so thankfully I don't need to worry about all of them. That soft-lock lands got me into really rattled me. So I put an answer to my md for that kind of situation and I'm testing how it fits into my meta and playstyle. I might be worrying about something totally irrelevant here. :confused:

tescrin

11-10-2015, 05:13 PM

Thanks for thorough answer, tescrin. Just gave another pov to consider. I didn't think through all those color combinations, so thankfully I don't need to worry about all of them. That soft-lock lands got me into really rattled me. So I put an answer to my md for that kind of situation and I'm testing how it fits into my meta and playstyle. I might be worrying about something totally irrelevant here. :confused:

lol no problem. I normally just assume my answers are obnoxious (and maybe that's the general case.) But hey.. I like reading myself type I guess.

Lands has hands you just can't get out of sometimes. My POV is that if Sigarda is other people's answers.. well, you have 6 mana against Lands.. so you probably already won. Even then, they can still just Lage you out potentially.

If you're worried about it, you can always Absolute Law in the Sideboard.
If you want to go deep you can find things that are a little less situational like:

Blurred Mongoose
Troll Ascetic
Steely Resolve (on humans)
Scythe Tiger
or other similarly weird cards.

I could see Blurred Mongoose being an OK out to Miracles actually. Basically a terrible TNN but you can cast it through CB lock. Given that Nimble Mongoose works in RUG against them, maybe it's good enough.

TMagpie

11-11-2015, 01:22 PM

Grand Prix Seatac Tournament Report

I brought Abzan Maverick to the tournament with high hopes; here is the list I brought.

Creatures: 26
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells: 12
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dark Depths

Lands: 22
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Marsh Flats
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Pendelhaven
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian Stage

Sideboard: 15
3 Thoughtseize
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Tower of the Magistrate

I had gotten two byes from a GPT at Channel Fireball and so I had the luxury of using the bathroom before 2013 other people could.

The Friday before day one, I joined a legacy side event. Five rounds of swiss where I ended the night at 4-1. This gave me a lot of confidence going into Saturday as all my sideboard cards mattered and I won several games off the back of Dark Depths.

Round One: Bye
Round Two: Bye

Round Three: Death and Taxes

Game One
-An early Deathrite Shaman is plowed, which I follow up with a Mother of Runes. He resolves a Deathrite Shaman on turn 2 fetching an Umezawa’s Jitte which I answer with a Qasali Pridemage. He plays his third land and passes the turn as I play my own Stoneforge Mystic to fetch my own Jitte. On his fourth turn he casts a second stoneforge mystic to fetch a batterskull. I leave mana up on my turn saying go. At end of turn he puts an Umezawa’s Jitte into play and untaps. He attempts to equip the jitte before I destroy it with my Pridemage, not wanting him to get a free plow on my mother of runes should I use her to prevent the damage. He passes the turn, and I activate stone forge to put the Jitte into play. I proceed to equip my Stoneforge Mystic with the Jitte and attack. He puts the batterskull into play and blocks—I save my mystic with my mother of runes putting 2 Jitte counters on my equipment. He attempts to plow my mother of runes at the end of my turn and a scryb ranger saves her. The game quickly gets out of hand as Scryb Ranger + Mother of Runes was followed by a Knight of the reliquary. The game stalls for a short while as I misplay my use of Jitte—but in his favor as my board position was too far ahead. The game was already over the moment he was unable to kill my mom with Plow.

Game Two
-A lot less interesting than the first game, he simply resolves a turn one mother of runes and follows it up with a Stoneforge Mystic. I had an okay opening of Deathrite into a 4/4 Knight of the Reliquary with a Thespian Stage in hand, with plans to kill him on the 5th turn with a Marit Lage Token. Phyrexian Revoker turns off that line of play and I quickly succumb to the power of Jitte.

Game Three
-Kept a hand with two colorless lands and failed to draw color until too late. Thespian Stage copying an opposing plains finally allowed me to cast spells around turn six. Having Qasali Pridemage countered by Vial+Revoker was the highlight of the match; but was uneventful regardless due to me failing to mulligan a bad hand.

Round Four: Burn

Game One
-He killed all my creatures, but I top decked more creatures while he did not top deck more burn. This was more a deck density game as we were both eventually hellbent, but I top deck a Knight of the Reliquary that was too massive at this point. He starts throwing burn at my face but 5 damage a turn from the Knight was too much for him to race.

Game Two
-The early game was rough as early Goblin Guides were supported by Searing Bloods which did lots of work. A few chump blocks followed by trading Goblins with Pridemages stabilized the ground game. I then untapped and made a 4/4 Scavenging Ooze gaining me some life in the process. He hits my Ooze with a Fireblast but is out of lands and cards in hand. I play a Deathrite Shaman and I am pulled out of burn range before he finally starts drawing burn spells again. At this point I have too big a board and I take him down in a few turns.

Round Five: BUG Delver

Game One
-This was a deathrite shaman game. Other creatures were involved, but the long match was decided by the fact that I had two deathrite shamans to his none. Thalia + plus Karakas stalled his Tarmagoyf while his removal was focused on my mother of runes and knight of the reliquaries. My two Deathrite Shamans keeps Tarmagoyf small and the life gain from deathrites kept Insectile Aberrations at bay. The game goes long as Planeswalkers, abrupt decays, and Maze of Iths stalls out the game on both sides. My two shamans slowly shrink his life total and his delver shrinks down my own. After 30 minutes of slogging he runs of answers to my big threats and a scryb ranger fully locks him out of the game as maze + scryb stops his delvers and 3 deathrite activations per turn keep his two goyfs at only 1/2.

Game Two
-This was a complete blowout. First turn I plow his deathrite. He then misses his second land drop, but is able to play another deathrite. On my second turn I wasteland his underground, then plow his deathrite. He top decks a land and casts a Delver of Secrets. I then play a Deathrite Shaman and a Mother of Runes. He plays a brainstorm but is then locked as he misses another land drop. I wasteland his land again while resolving a Stoneforge Mystic. He hits me for 3 before I abrupt decay his delver. Two turns pass with no land draws before he scoops.

Round Six: ANTS

Game One
-An early deathrite shaman followed by wasteland and Thalia sets him back enough to force an early Tendrils play—leaving me at 2 life. Four or five turns pass before I deal lethal.

Game Two
-My second turn was spent casting a Deathrite Shaman and a mother of Runes while his second turn was spent producing 18 goblins. A big mistake happened when I prevented my Mother of Runes from trading with a token (protecting herself from damage instead) which prevented me from gaining the 2 life I needed to survive an extra turn. I had cast a Stoneforge Mystic for a Batterskull that threatened to turn the game around should I be able to untap with the Stoneforge—but without the extra life I died to exact damage a turn before batterskull came online.

Game Three
-Turn one play dryad arbor (without Green Sun) followed by a 2nd turn Phyrexian Revoker on Lions Eye Diamond prevented him from a turn 3 kill. That was then followed by a Deathrite Shaman and me deciding not to put a plains onto the battlefield. Thoughtseize removing his chain of vapor followed by a Thalia Guardian of Thraben which locked the game out as I didn’t have the plains for his massacre. He was forced to cast a desperation Ad Nauseum which killed him.

Round Seven: Merfolk

Game One
-Scryb Ranger is one the best cards Maverick has against Menfolk—especially game one. Mother of runes was able to both block and push a knight of the reliquary through for damage simply with my Scryb constantly untapping her. At one point, Maze of Ith, Mother of Runes, and Scryb Ranger stalled out the ground as a pro-blue Knight finished him off.

Game Two
-What starts off fairly even quickly devolves into a Truename Nemesis race that I am unable to answer. An early mother of runes does not get the support creatures she needs as my Swords to Plowshares mainly killed lords as I died to Truenames.

Game Three
-This does not go well for Maverick as he was able to draw everything he wanted against me. An early truename Nemesis is followed by a phantasmal image and a second true name nemesis. My initial plan was casting a Knight of the Reliquary and then playing the Thespian Stage in my hand to allow me to kill him on the fifth turn. However, a Pithing Needle on Knight of the Reliquary and a Chalice of the Void set on 1 almost locks me out of the game. At this point I had resolved a mother of runes, and a stoneforge mystic searching for a Sword of Fire and Ice. Mom wearing a Sofi keeps his board clear of lords, but I am still taking heavy damage from the three Truenames on the board. Near the last turns of the game, my only valid line of play was casting a Knight of the Reliquary, and then targeting it with a Swords to Plowshares to gain life in order to fog for a turn. This, however, requires a missed trigger from Chalice of the Void to work. With some fast play I cast the knight, said go, and when he attacked with his three Truenames I immediately cast Swords to Plowshares on my Knight without hesitation. Pausing for a moment, he looks at the Knight, asks me how much life I gain (I tell him how big my Knight is), and then he proceeds to tell me that it is exiled not killed. I go down to 2 after the attack and proceed to top deck a Toxic Deluge off of my Sofi trigger. He is hellbent at this point and I cast Deluge for 1 leaving me with only 1 hitpoint left and a mom + Sofi in play. he dies to the mom beats before he can cast a threat.

Round Eight: Miracles

Game One
-A mull to five did not start me well. And although the hand was good, by the fourth turn my initial assault was fully blunted and I was in top deck mode. My initial threats were substantial as I curved out with a first turn Deathrite Shaman, a second turn Thalia, and a combo of Wasteland + Gaddock Teeg on the third turn. The issue that came about was my inability to capitalize on the initial disruption as he was able to find removal for all three spells and I was already in top deck mode. An early Monastery Mentor kills me before I can get a game going.

Game Two
-This one starts out much better for me, but ends up far worse. Although I eventually flooded out—the opening salvo has usually been enough to end most of my matches against Miracles. But Plow, Plow, Snap+Plow, into Izzet Staticaster just neutered any early pressure I could do. The game ended with him still holding spot removal and me locked out of the game with Countertop.

Round Nine: Burn

Game One
-I was on tilt at this point and began overthinking absolutely everything I did. Going first, the burn player opened with a Wooded Foothills and passed the turn. Holding two marsh flats and two wastelands, two mother of runes and a Qasali Pridemage. I decided that the untapped Foothills was a Stifle bluff and played my wasteland with the hope that he stalls his Tarmagoyf until turn 3 to keep his stifle mana up. Instead he untaps, plays a bloodstain mire, fetches two mountains and plays an eidolon of great revels. I untap, and cast a mother of runes—wasteland sitting useless. I take 2 damage from the eidolon. He untaps, hits Mother of Runes with Chain Lighting, and casts a another Eidolon of Great Revels before attacking for 2. The second fetch land is cracked and I cast Qasali Pridemage taking 4 damage from Eidolon triggers. At this point I’m at 12 from eidolon’s and fetches alone. He swings with both, I block one eidolon and destroy the other. He throws a chain lightning at me brining me down to 9. I draw a Stoneforge Mystic and cast it—taking 2 going down to 7 and I search for a Batterskull. I am finished off with a bolt and a fireblast.

Game Two
-I open with a Mother of runes, which is hit with chain lightning, followed by a Deathrite Shaman, which is hit by searing blood taking me down to 15 since I had fetched twice. On my third turn I resolve a Knight of the Reliquary. He answers back by hitting me with Chain Lightning and casting an Eidolon of Great Revels; I am now at 12. On my turn I play my fourth land and resolve a green sun’s zenith for 3 putting a second Knight of the Reliquary into play. I pass the turn, choosing not to attack. He passes the turn with no plays and I fetch for a Maze of Ith. On my turn I attack with both my Knight’s, he attempts to block one with eidolon and I target my Knight of the reliquary with Maze of Ith, untapping it and preserving his eidolon. He takes 5 and I play a Dryad Arbor. On his turn he attempts to hit Dryad Arbor with a second Searing Blood and I sacrifice the Arbor with my Knight in response—accidentally writing down the 3 damage in the process. My sheet now marks me at 9 while his sheet marks me at 12. He asks to see my life pad, and I show him. He attacks with his Eidolon taking me down to 10 actual (but 7 on my life pad), he then follows up with Chain Lightning and Fireblast bringing me down to 3 actual (but 0 on my life pad). My opponent proceeds to pick up his cards and shuffle as I sat there confused as to what just happened as I thought I had a bigger health buffer than that. I called judge and since I both wrote down the new life totals and he had already shuffled his cards it was too late to reverse the game state. Although upset at the situation, I was mostly upset with myself for the clerical error.

Closing Thoughts

Although I ended day one at 6-3, the tournament itself was fantastic, and I was on the ropes in most of my games. Going into the 8th of nine rounds at 6-1 definitely felt good while losing the ninth round hurt a lot more than i thought it would. I was taxed by the end of the day but felt like I could play 9 more rounds of magic no problem—probably the adrenaline/excitement/delirium.

My biggest regret is losing my first game against death and taxes. It wasn’t until I lost the 9th round the way I did that I realized how close the margins actually are in a grand prix and throwing away a favorable match like that definitely affected me. Although I am angry with myself for multiple bad plays and clerical errors—those are things I can always expect to happen in any 12 hour event. At some point you will be tired and make a mistake. Play tighter, make less of them, but don’t assume you won’t make them. More than a few of my game wins came from the opponents making unforced errors and having my opponent’s decks lose due to variance—so its only fair to expect that it will happen to me as well. I cannot be upset for losing a match for the same reasons my opponents do. My results against Merfolk in round 7 followed by my results against Miracles in round 8 is a testament to how fickle the luck gods are. Luck will affect both you and the opponent, and mistakes will happen given enough time (and 12 hours is a LONG time)—so, in regards to game 3 against Death Taxes, making decisions like I did where I hoped to just get lucky and draw colored sources in game three (as opposed to game 2 after winning game one) was an unacceptable decision I don’t plan on repeating.

Changes to the Deck

I was very unhappy with both Thoughtseize and Dark Depths. Not from their inability to perform—but from the awkward side boarding decisions they forced me in. Pithing Needles were everywhere to fight Miracles, but my Knight of the Reliquary got caught in the crossfire shutting down my combo kill plans on more than one occasion. This leads me to believe that until Miracles stops being so popular I cannot afford to run a trump card that gets turned off when my Knights are turned off. Thoughtseize was an upsetting change primarily because I did face off against two burn decks—so possible confirmation bias. But even against ANTS I felt scared that shrinking down their storm count needs would be detrimental. Unfortunately, with the recent trend in Miracles, Thoughtseize might have to stay just to fight Monastery Mentors and Izzet Staticaster. With mentor mirrors and the success of Grixis with their Pyromancer, there’s going to be an uptick in Staticaster usage which will greatly affect my lines of play. Thoughtseize is great against this change in Miracles.

tescrin

11-11-2015, 02:26 PM

I think that's a great run; though I really hate the requisite "play to your outs" of the chalice->plow problem. It makes sense, I guess I feel like (as an engineer) winning like that isn't much different than cheating since the deck and player technically failed to win without exacerbating circumstances mitigating it.

Good on you for going for it, but then "getting there" wouldn't mean much for the deck when it only gets there on the back of bad players missing triggers you know? The idea that the lack of competence of an opponent to notice something you're both technically supposed to keep track of may have been the difference between a Top 8 and not is upsetting IMO. The only reason it's an abusable trick is because there is a lack of punishment for the abuse of it anymore. I'd really rather they go back to giving both players warning for this kind of thing, and intentionally playing around the rules be labeled as it should be.

TMagpie

11-11-2015, 03:26 PM

Warden

11-11-2015, 04:01 PM

I guess I have a different idea on what player skill entails.

In physical sports, the expectation is not that you execute all actions perfectly, but that you perform them to the best of your ability, and you attempt to make the least mistakes over a designated period of time. A three point shot is easier without opponents than it is with opponents, for example.

So to me, tight play and attempting to perform flawless plays is part of player skill. The person who makes less mistakes is the one who played tighter. Part of that is "strategy" related such as deciding to block or attack or figuring out a sequence. But the other part is more mechanical--such as knowing how to play quickly with a top deck, making sure you don't take too long to shuffle, or even the simple act of not missing your triggers. I bet that the players who perform the most consistently good also happen to be the players who make a lot less mistakes on average.

But that's because I believe execution has a causal relationship with skill. As opposed to assuming "no mistakes" then ___ must be superior to ____.

Different strokes for different folks I guess :)

Don't kick yourself too hard. 6-3 is really solid and respectable. Execution is tied to player skill, but it's not the be-all end-all. Variance is part of magic. Even games where you are "technically perfect", you can still lose to opponents having the nuts OR your own topdecks being poor OR some combination of both. Maverick has a lot of sequencing. I miss half the stuff on the table. Other times I see 3 or 4 card interactions and debate if they are appropriate for the game-state/conditions I am in. The best Maverick lists are run by pilots who have an exact idea on the lines they are looking for. Maverick is crazy-good at rewarding experienced pilots in that regard.

What I will critique is DD/Stage. If you run that package, you shouldn't run Maze (Pendlehaven also looks weird here too). Simply put, you need colored mana throughout the game. I also think you need to add Scryb and/or Safekeeper if you go DD/Stage. Scryb lets you aggressively combo (double activation of KotR). Safekeeper protects your army & 20/20 token at-will. Safekeeper also creates the "nuclear" option of blitzing with a KotR (assuming you are gaining momentum OR if the DD/Stage combo were to be interrupted by wasteland/ports/revoker/needle). I haven't been big on Safekeeper personally, but I'm coming back around to Scryb (even in lists without DD/Stage).

TMagpie

11-11-2015, 04:19 PM

Don't kick yourself too hard. 6-3 is really solid and respectable. Execution is tied to player skill, but it's not the be-all end-all. Variance is part of magic. Even games where you are "technically perfect", you can still lose to opponents having the nuts OR your own topdecks being poor OR some combination of both. Maverick has a lot of sequencing. I miss half the stuff on the table. Other times I see 3 or 4 card interactions and debate if they are appropriate for the game-state/conditions I am in. The best Maverick lists are run by pilots who have an exact idea on the lines they are looking for. Maverick is crazy-good at rewarding experienced pilots in that regard.

What I will critique is DD/Stage. If you run that package, you shouldn't run Maze (Pendlehaven also looks weird here too). Simply put, you need colored mana throughout the game. I also think you need to add Scryb and/or Safekeeper if you go DD/Stage. Scryb lets you aggressively combo (double activation of KotR). Safekeeper protects your army & 20/20 token at-will. Safekeeper also creates the "nuclear" option of blitzing with a KotR (assuming you are gaining momentum OR if the DD/Stage combo were to be interrupted by wasteland/ports/revoker/needle). I haven't been big on Safekeeper personally, but I'm coming back around to Scryb (even in lists without DD/Stage).

Thanks! It was a very enlightening experience playing in my first Grand Prix. I've never played in anything with more than 200+ people and just the range of opponents I had was so incredible. I have a lot of stuff that are not really ordinary that I'm still playing with. Pendelhaven have been great at allowing me to untap with Mom more often as well as giving me a way to fight against massacres. I'm still not fully sold on it, but it has been cute. Maze was a recent return as i was not very happy with a maindeck Sofi and made a last minute audible to swap it for a Maze of Ith. I found I was searching for Ith way more than DD/Stage and its been whats making my Knight such a monster on defense as well.

In regards to DD:
I had started using DD during the UR Treasure Cruise era as an out should they go nuclear with token generation. Since then I have bounced back and forth between it and Sigarda as my "trump card" and although very few people were able to stop my combo itself--the combo pieces get very dead if Knight gets neutered. I never noticed it before this tournament and it makes me want to cut it just because of that. I just wish we had a beefy green evasion creature that can be searched for when Knights aren't strong enough to win the game. So although it was never "bad" for me this tournament (I actually had several game wins with it the Friday before day 1) I agree its got to go.

tescrin

11-11-2015, 05:35 PM

The "Evasive green beater" is sort of the problem with getting the wrong sets of stuff. Technically Mom + KotR/Scooze gives you that, or Sword + KotR/Scooze. When it's just KotR it's obnoxious to grind through their garbage until you hit home. I'd say Deluge is an indirect way to fix this, but that's still just a combo. Sigarda is great for it, but she's 5/6 mana.

IMO, you could always run a 2-of non-green to increase your options. Restro-angel being pretty good at grinding people (untap a dude you have and double block an unsuspecting opponent. save a dude from removal) Hero of Bladehold doesn't have evasion, but is run successfully in DGA sometimes due to it's extreme clock. They're both good for equips (Flash for psuedo-haste, or 3 bodies with Bladehold)

Bitterblossom has been grinding for me really well and is also quite good against miracles (one of the main reasons I've been running it.) I know you guys aren't technically black and that people are skeptical; but I win a lot of games on evasive equips, endless chumps, or just arbitrary pressure.

Also, it's *brutal* against Delver, especially the kinds that lack Abrupt Decay. Gives you a lot of time and eventually gives you evasive dudes to go over the top. I appreciate it's 2-mana cost quite a bit and am mostly working with it right now to figure out. Unlike Lingering Souls, it's not weird next to Thalia, as it just costs (2)B then.

Warden

11-11-2015, 07:50 PM

I just wish we had a beefy green evasion creature that can be searched for when Knights aren't strong enough to win the game. So although it was never "bad" for me this tournament (I actually had several game wins with it the Friday before day 1) I agree its got to go.

@TMagpie: My trump right now is Tasigur. He takes on fair decks as a vanilla black goyf. That alone kicks ass. Then his ability usually allows me to recur removal/equipment/creatures to continuously throw at the opponent. I wish he was hybrid black-green. He's just stupid strong.

tescrin

11-11-2015, 08:03 PM

@TMagpie: My trump right now is Tasigur. He takes on fair decks as a vanilla black goyf. That alone kicks ass. Then his ability usually allows me to recur removal/equipment/creatures to continuously throw at the opponent. I wish he was hybrid black-green. He's just stupid strong.

Is he a 1-of or more?
(I've been considering running a couple in DGA/Junk over Bob.)

Warden

11-12-2015, 08:40 AM

Is he a 1-of or more?
(I've been considering running a couple in DGA/Junk over Bob.)

For various reasons, I run Tasigur as a 1x. If death and taxes are big around you, I'd consider pushing him to the board. Even against delver and the mirror, Tasigur has been a ridiculous trump card. I am afraid running 2 would make me see him too often (see: double thalia situation). I only want him to be a big showstopper, not something I absolutely depend upon. For junk, you'd have to consider what packages he plays nicely with (and that's a whole other topic).

TMagpie

11-12-2015, 12:06 PM

For various reasons, I run Tasigur as a 1x. If death and taxes are big around you, I'd consider pushing him to the board. Even against delver and the mirror, Tasigur has been a ridiculous trump card. I am afraid running 2 would make me see him too often (see: double thalia situation). I only want him to be a big showstopper, not something I absolutely depend upon. For junk, you'd have to consider what packages he plays nicely with (and that's a whole other topic).

Is it reliable as a one-of or do you just hope you draw it at the right time?

L10

11-12-2015, 12:47 PM

Tasigur is a cool 1-of. Though, personally, I have been liking Siege Rhino as my trump. If I were to play a creature that has a CMC of 4+, I'd rather it have immediate impact. Sometimes, it kills my opponent or a Planeswalker on spot. Against Delver and Burn decks, that 6 Point swing off of GSZ can be big. It has a nice static P/T when grave hate is present. It can also carry SoFI and SoLaS well due to Trample. I am not too keen on Sigarda, personally. Never gave her a shot because of her CMC.

TMagpie

11-12-2015, 07:40 PM

L10

11-12-2015, 09:13 PM

Darn it. Everytime I think about Siege Rhino, without fail, I think of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt8XtkYb4_0

My bad.

Warden

11-12-2015, 09:18 PM

Is it reliable as a one-of or do you just hope you draw it at the right time?

With the way I've been building Maverick, it's the 1x "trump" slot. I figure between fetches, gsz, KotR, and library/top I "see" a large chunk of my deck. Its delve is mechanically "against" KotR and DRS, so I don't want Tasigur too often.

I have been mulling over ways to incorporate confidant and tasigur in the same deck, but I'd likely need a junk shell to accommodate their co-existence. I want to run some 3 or 4 color monstrosity but cant find the way to properly achieve the deck I want. I have also been contemplating a deadguy/vial maverick hybrid, but can't put it all together. I'm not sold on a deck dependent upon little dorks. I'm also looking at punishing maverick, but always find it to be inferior to dark mav. The pfires engine is too fragile in a creature-heavy list.

tescrin

11-13-2015, 01:29 PM

I have been mulling over ways to incorporate confidant and tasigur in the same deck, but I'd likely need a junk shell to accommodate their co-existence.

[May need to take this offline as we're in tangent territory.]

I am personally going to try replacing 4xBob in my current list with 2x Tasigur, 1xLoam or Library (up to 3 libs), 1x Wasteland (bringing me to 4.) Bob's requirement of living for awhile really has me down, and his lack of impact on the board is obnoxious. I think the 4x Goyf 2x Tasigur will put more pressure on the board in fair and combo matches; while Tasigur in the late game gives you replacement cards *now* while dodging counterbalance reasonably reliably.

I like Bob when he can get online, but for the last three tournies or so, he hasn't been able to get online and I've been defending myself from Anglers, Goyfs, and Tasigurs. Tasigur naturally dodging a whole host of removal is handy as well.

I think Bob + Tasigur is a bit of a waste unless you stay out of Green personally; as they not only clash in mana-cost/ability, but they're both mediocre/terrible for combo. Since that's the same for goyf, I can't imagine spending Goyf/KotR + Bob + Tasigur slots in a deck (Junk) that is already strained for relevant interaction. Maybe KotR Junk could do it, but you basically forgoe lily or just deal with a bad delver MU (because your manabase becomes so weak.)

I think I'll get testing again Saturday; but unsure.

Gabuts007

11-25-2015, 04:26 PM

Togores

11-26-2015, 02:21 PM

Darn it. Everytime I think about Siege Rhino, without fail, I think of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt8XtkYb4_0

My bad.

Thats a good video ;)

Wintersmith

11-27-2015, 03:34 PM

Vandalize

11-29-2015, 09:58 AM

Tomorrow I'm going to biggest legacy event of the year here, with a little over 100 participants.
Going with K.I.S.S. plan and hoping for the best. Any last minute suggestions?

// Deck: Maverick (60)

// Lands
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary

// Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 1 Krosan Grip

That list seems great except for that basic Swamp. How often do you want to fetch for it? It can cast only 4 cards main deck (3 DRS, 1 Decay), and Fetch -> Swamp -> Thoughtseize can screw your land drop progression in post-board games. Don't you think that those 3 black sources (Bayou, Scrubland) are enough, since you only want to fetch black when you need it?

EDIT: I've been playing some Rock variants for the past few weeks, it was really solid, great deck. But then... I looked into my binder and saw those 4 Knight of the Reliquary, begging to be dusted off and played like the 10/10 machine they're supposed to be. So I sleeved up my GWb Maverick again, and I'll probably play it in my next local legacy friday.

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog

Any thoughts on the list?

TMagpie

12-01-2015, 12:27 PM

Hi guys, maverick recently won a 30 man legacy tourney here in our area. It ran a Dark Depths-Thespian Stage combo kill. Just wanna ask if you guys find it effective as well or it just screws your mana up. I'll give it a try I guess.

It has little to no effect on your mana since Dark Depths should replace a spell, not a land. The main problem with it is that it takes up 2 card slots (a land for the Thespian Stage and a spell for the Dark Depths) which cuts into the already limited space Maverick has available.

That said, it is a high reward card and gives you outs where you'd never have them prior. Not counting the games you just win because you drew a Stage or Depths + Knight or GSZ and two turns later your opponent is dead.

The risk is in topdeck late games. Unlike almost any other trump card Maverick *could* be running, Dark Depths is the only card in your deck you don't want to draw during the late game. Even a Dryad Arbor/fetchland could theoretically carry equipment.

That being said, I've won my fair share of games using Thespian Stage on both a Maze of Ith (while on defense) and a Dryad Arbor (on offense)--so its not like the stage is bad. Its really the Depths that is the issue.

Usually Depths should take up the Sigarda/Thrun/Wilt-Leaf/Titania/etc... slot

Madmankevinx

12-01-2015, 12:32 PM

I have been playing this deck quite a bit as of late and am definitely a fan of the Dark Depths win con. There are a lot of times that I will look at the board and realize that my opponent won't be able to deal with a 20/20 indestructible flyer at all and that I can easily survive two turns to make it and just end the game. It happens quite a bit for me actually. You just need to be accurate in reading the board and knowing if they have any outs or whether a traditional aggro plan is better. Post board my Pithing Needles often name wasteland because my opponents have that as their only answer to stop Dark Depths. We are usually a better "fair" deck on the aggro scale so if that is what you are up against, sometimes it's better to just get a knight out and combo off instead of actually trying to play magic.

oSeabass

12-02-2015, 04:23 PM

Over the weekend one of my local stores had a small Legacy tournament for dual lands to the top 1-4. About 16 people entered and I took my GW list to a 3-2 8th place for a lovely 2 pack prize. Since I sold most of my paper Legacy collection a little over a year ago, I was missing a lot. I had RUG Delver sleeved and ready but really wanted to play GW. With a little bit of scrambling around borrowing stuff from friends and using the generous 6 proxy rule the shop was using I sleeved up (just in time) this 75:

(Creatures 27)
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Quasali Pridemage
1 Vyrn Wingmare
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness

(Spells 11)
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith

(Lands 22)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Savannah
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswepth Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke
2 Holy Light
1 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Scavenging Ooze
==================================

I ran GW since I didn't have enough proxy spots and cards to borrow to make GWb. I run GW online very close to this list and knew it a lot better then the Black version. After playing with it, I quickly was convinced the Black will help a lot. I originally thought Holy Light would save me out of the board against Pyromancer, Elves, Merfolk, Goblins, and TNN... but what happened was I ran into two token based decks that quickly made me feel like Zealous P. is the bee's knees. Running into Monastery Mentor (Esper Good Stuff) and Lingering Souls style decks, I see the need now. That being said, Light and Shadow was an all star in the deck.

Round 1: BW Tokens w/Sorin, Lingering Souls, Timely Reinforcements, Spectral Procession, Anthems, etc.
I don't remember too much of this one other then in game 3 I was able to topdeck Pithing Needle for a just dropped Sword of Feast and Famine, Gaddock Teeg to stop Sorin from hitting, then Light and Shadow to close out. The Lingering Souls tokens were a bit rough to deal with in larger numbers. Mother of Runes providing unblockable KotR was a solid clock. Wasteland was solid.

Round 2: RUG Delver
Close games (lost in 2). Game 1 I stabalized at 3 health and needed to put a clock on quick knowing a top deck Bolt would end me. With 2 attackers I had the constant blocking threat of creatures (Scryb Ranger for Delver, Thalia, and a Mom). I was a turn away from a Kotr lethal swing when a top decked Foekd Bolt was able to pick off the blockers and allow the lethal swing. Game 2 was a little less interesting with him having a couple of Goyfs on board and me not being able to draw sideboard cards like Choke to close out.

Round 3: Sneak and Show
Game 1 I had a decent clock with a Knight but a JtMS and Emrakul turned into the topdecking nothing. Game 2 he kept a slower hand in terms of combo, but had a turn 1 Blood Moon into a turn 2 Grafdigger's Cage. I was able to drop a Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack and get a basic Plains for a StP on a Griselbrand, but eventually he was able to stick a Through the Breach - Emrakul and win easily. This was a rough match, I didn't feel like I had a chance with Blood Moon on the table and 3 basics in the entire deck.

Round 4: Bye.
Sad one of my 3-2 came from a bye :(

Round 5: Esper good stuff
Monastery Mentor was a bit of a pain, but I was able to StP it most of the time through counter magic using Thalia. Scooze was a big help shrinking graveyards and Karakas helped keep the board under control stopping new Jace and Tasigur. Double Mom made light work of a mono white based creature base. Sticking Thrun was a big help and landing a Jitte off a Stoneforge was a great out to dealing with 1/1 tokens.

All in all it went ok. I felt the RUG matchup was close, the BW token match I felt I lucked into the win, Sneak and Show was a beatdown, and Esper was fair. After running into two decks with white tokens my Holy Light sideboard felt silly. Also the need for black to disrupt combo a bit stalling for Teeg Father is needed. I also think I want to add in the Dark Depths wincon to the deck. There were a few games I had a Knight/Mom out, but had to sit on them on defense so I wouldn't die. Being able to EoT use Knight to find a 20/20 seems pretty good in that situation. Also having an actual way to block an Emrakul would be cool if I could survive the life hit and sac outs.

Cavern was great all weekend and really helped push through creatures against counter heavy decks that are light on removal. Thalia and Mom are great to land against those decks, and having a Cavern on Human allows a ton of flexible creature drops. Thrun in the board was nice in some games, as the body helped handle larger creatures and his regen made him a great resilient blocker. The uncounterable part of Thrun too wasn't something to take lightly. Thrun would have been a Sigarda if I could find one or had another proxy spot, but he worked ok. I think that last flex spot in the board is heavily dependant on the meta. Expect more Emrakuls or black Pox style strategies, run Sigarda. Expect more blue fair decks, Thrun is a beast.

Togores

12-26-2015, 05:47 PM

May be someone is interested.
I played last month 3 times gwb zenith. Love some cards of the deck and the most of all skryb ranger. Allows just too much fun.

Ended:

Top 8 (ending 1st of swiss) at a 40 ppl league. Lost top 8 to shardless with 2 deluge md.
Loosing finals of a 30 ppl event
Wining a 30 ppl event.

Deck is just fun and better than death and taxes (dont understand why someone plays this crap deck...)

1 tegg
2 quasali
2 skryb ranger
4 thalia (quizas quitaria 1)
1 stonforge
4 relicario
4 mother or runes
1 ozze
4 deathrite

4 zenith
3 decay
4 swords

2 sylvan library
1 fire ice sword
1 jitte

2 savanah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
1 canopi
1 gradle
4 wasteland
1 plains
1 forest
4 windswepr heath
3 verdant catacomb
1 driada
1 karakas

2 espeth
1 garruk relentless
1 pithing
2 surgical
2 seize
1 krossan
2 council
2 canonist
2 choke

Just for the experta here. My plan va miracles is:

-4 thalia
-4 sword
-1 ozze

+2 choke
+1 garruk
+2 espeth
+1 pithing
+1 grip
+2 council

Other aproaches or way of sideboarding?
You guys think discard is woth? I also like surgical getting rid of terminus or swords is like really great for the rest of the game because then you can overextend or may be just get them to use terminus in once a creature a time.

Also if the dont play mentor I would side out the jitte its just there to kill mentor. But no mentor then no jitte needed.
May be I should just side 1 council and jitte out to side both surgical.

Also someone has idea on how to fight entreat of angels? Is just the card I most die to. Think mana denial and racing is the way. But maybe another plan is better.

Seraphix

12-26-2015, 11:12 PM

...

Just for the experta here. My plan va miracles is:

-4 thalia
-4 sword
-1 ozze

+2 choke
+1 garruk
+2 espeth
+1 pithing
+1 grip
+2 council

Other aproaches or way of sideboarding?
You guys think discard is woth? I also like surgical getting rid of terminus or swords is like really great for the rest of the game because then you can overextend or may be just get them to use terminus in once a creature a time.

Also if the dont play mentor I would side out the jitte its just there to kill mentor. But no mentor then no jitte needed.
May be I should just side 1 council and jitte out to side both surgical.

Also someone has idea on how to fight entreat of angels? Is just the card I most die to. Think mana denial and racing is the way. But maybe another plan is better.

I wouldn't cut any number of Thalia against Miracles. Putting them under as much early pressure as possible is critical. Planeswalkers, Choke, and the like aren't bad against Miracles, but aren't fast enough or proactive enough. I would cut a mana dork and a land for starters, then look to cut "action" spells.

You beat Angels with Teeg lock, putting their resources under too much pressure, or a pro-White Sword (which look particularly attractive now with the incorporation of Monastery Mentor).

pettdan

12-27-2015, 07:50 AM

@Togores: how have double Scryb Rangers been working for you? Why are you playing double? And why not replacing one of them with some bigger creature/bomb (thinking of Sigarda)?

Combatting Angels is hard, I don't have much to add except for possibly putting a second Gaddock in the board (though he doesn't fit so well with the CMC 4 planeswalkers, so probably not) and changing one or two Chokes into Winter Orb or Tsunami. Tsunami can't be worn/torn (or decayed) and with the planeswalkers you're possibly already avoiding slamming an early Gaddock. Winter Orb is applicable in non-blue matchups too (Lands? Nic fit? Cloudpost?), great with Thalia, does add value when choke is already in play as opposite to a second choke. With your list I'd try one Tsunami over one Choke. Also you could change one Council's Judgement into a Maelstrom Pulse.

Togores

12-27-2015, 08:10 AM

Thanks for replys.

Skryb is THE BEST card in the deck.
Lets you anbush blue creatures, with dryad it makes a maze of iz, saves you lands of wasteland, lets you use mom twice (when he trys to destroy it twice in a row), lets reuse knight at double wasteland or atack and block. Also makes deathrite a machinegun. Gets you one more mana when you dont have a landrop. All the good and busted things.

Just THE best card.

I just dont play 2 tegg because I have not a second german signed... :D

Also 2 council I think is a evil muss. Because of nemesis. Also gets rid of any kind of planeswalker or thread. Also against shardless bug it removes jace, lilian, any creature or night of soul bettayal. And pulse dont removes tnn.

I will give a thought on winter orb and tsunami. Thanks for the help ^^

Fatal

12-27-2015, 09:11 AM

@Togores
I'm glad you found power of Scryb Ranger - early version of Maverick used multiple Scryb Ranger since it's best flying unblockable thread (almost only flying creatures in Legacy are blue), which can support almost all creatures in Maverick. Anyway marginalizing it's count to 1 was necessary evil, his 1 toughness was too easy angle to attack in actual meta where almost every deck runs some -1/-1 effects (TNN infestation).

Togores

12-27-2015, 09:44 AM

When playing the deck I board out a lot of times x/1 creatures like thalia against decks like any bug with golgary charm or decks I expect to play zealous persecution or night of soul betrayal.

Thalia is a good card. But its not better than zenith or a planeswalker In this deck. That males I prefer to br able to gring into the mid game better than being able to deploy cards that wins the game instead of a card that get golgary away and then also gets my mana deployment stopped.

Skryb is just smexy.

Koby

12-29-2015, 12:40 PM

Finn

12-29-2015, 12:55 PM

Koby, I can't imagine how cutting these cards is a net benefit. DRS is both the reason to splash and the enabler of the splash.

Koby

12-29-2015, 01:05 PM

Koby, I can't imagine how cutting these cards is a net benefit. DRS is both the reason to splash and the enabler of the splash.

I have my reasons! (DRS does not have a promo printing...)

I'm thinking something along the lines of this old list: (needs some updating, but it's the idea)

Brandon Chang - Date: 27/10/2013

4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Captain Sisay
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sylvan Library

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy

sideboard
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Krosan Grip
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trinisphere
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Circle of Protection: Red

Bobmans

01-17-2016, 12:01 PM

I have been playing a number of games with this (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19090&iddeck=145099) list from SCG Vegas on 13-dec-'15

The deck felt really solid and was almost as if i was cheating (never played Maverick before). Nearly every game i ended with a Marit Lage. Mostly of KotR with MoM back-up. But i was in a good position already so Marit Lage was just a win more/save time. However, i did feel like the SFM package is not really needed. It was never relevant, except for one game where i fetched Jitte and got rid of 1 creature. So how would you guys feel about getting rid of SFM in this build?

tescrin

01-17-2016, 03:29 PM

Bobmans

01-17-2016, 04:55 PM

Marit lage good, SFM bad?

While I don't doubt your experience, it's probably luck of the draw. SFM is CA, and about the only reliable CA the deck has. The cards it fetches are CA if they ever connect, and normally more than one cards worth as well. The clocks they present allow the high threat density but low power of the build to push through.

That said, it really depends what you're looking to replace it with. We can't really evaluate just dropping 4-7 cards without knowing what we'd replace them with.

The question is less "how good is this card in the deck" and more "how good is it relative to what it could be replaced with."

Either way, I assume it's still a go-to, but we have to start with the right frame of mind I think.

Well, the thing with SFM was that it felt like the deck A. didn't require SFM, as KotR along with Mom, Thalia and the GSZ package delivered enough punching power. B. Surprisingly: getting KotR out, or paving the road as you may, also set an easy way to drop Marit Lage. Because your working on lands here going for KotR + DD combo seems to be more in harmony then SFM is in the deck. It is not that DD combo is really needed for winning, but you have the ability to one shot your opponent without making extra effort to do so. SFM just felt like: ok, i am doing this, but now i am gonna do that instead. Hope that makes sense, and was wondering just wondering if i am just piloting the deck in an awkward way.
As substitutes i haven't thought it trough, but was thinking 1 or 2 more lands (Swamp/Forest, Gaea's Cradle) and 3 Dark Confidant.

Seraphix

01-17-2016, 08:55 PM

Well, the thing with SFM was that it felt like the deck A. didn't require SFM, as KotR along with Mom, Thalia and the GSZ package delivered enough punching power. B. Surprisingly: getting KotR out, or paving the road as you may, also set an easy way to drop Marit Lage. Because your working on lands here going for KotR + DD combo seems to be more in harmony then SFM is in the deck. It is not that DD combo is really needed for winning, but you have the ability to one shot your opponent without making extra effort to do so. SFM just felt like: ok, i am doing this, but now i am gonna do that instead. Hope that makes sense, and was wondering just wondering if i am just piloting the deck in an awkward way.
As substitutes i haven't thought it trough, but was thinking 1 or 2 more lands (Swamp/Forest, Gaea's Cradle) and 3 Dark Confidant.

I can understand your sentiments about Stoneforge Mystic. Despite having played almost every configuration of Squires and Equips possible in Maverick, I still can't concretely say which, if any, is the best (although I think this is dependent on the specifics of whatever list you're playing).

However, Umezawa's Jitte is an absolutely busted card. Even with 0 Squires I would play 1-2 in the 75. It is the highest impact equipment on average, and comes with the lowest deckbuilding cost while requiring the least mana investment.

Artlee

01-18-2016, 01:50 AM

It's also worth noting how noting your SFM often eats removal, that would be aimed at your KotR instead, and you still have a Jitte in your hand.

tescrin

01-18-2016, 11:32 AM

I will join the endless piles of comments over the decade telling people how Jitte is gross. Normally I fetch it purely because it's the easiest to cast-equip-swing with, which can be a big pain for the opponent as going for a sword means you have to wait a turn or tap the mystic. As a psuedo-4-drop Jitte is a tutorable planeswalker just about. My assumption for replacements would eb something like:

2 QPM
3 Dark Confidant
1-2 ?

QPM to boost attack power and answers, Confidant because after you mentioned it, it makes sense. I haven't run him for a little in my Junk colored stuff because I got tired of him dying and looked for more "immediate impact" type cards. But honestly, he's the most fun I ever have when it actually works lol.

Warden

01-18-2016, 05:58 PM

Jitte is the best equipment in this deck, followed closely by Sword of Fire/Ice. SFM can be cut, but even when you do that you should be running 2 equips in the 60 anyway (usually double Jitte but you could do Jitte + Sword of X/Y).

If I were to run Maverick tomorrow, I'd most likely run 1-2 SFM. I don't like the deck's positioning in the meta at all, but if you wanna go against the grain, this deck can break hearts. SFM as others have stated is indeed one of the few CA options you could run. I think the deck needs some magical CA "oomph" beyond SFM and Library. I don't think Bob is the answer (unless you're one of the lucky people who never experience him being shot on sight). I want Collective Company (4 drop spell that can bring 3cc fellas into play) to be good ---> more or less something that lets you take a handful of your library and drop a few guys into play right away. I think Maverick is at a disadvantage because it's lacking that kind of "bam here's my refueling card" spell. I'm sour after months of treasure cruise and then dig through time. With more and more mentor/pyromancer value-engine shenanigans, I think Maverick needs something in the direction of FoF or Collective Company to continue competing.

pointicus

01-18-2016, 07:54 PM

Koby

01-18-2016, 09:09 PM

Since most maverick lists run black already, why not try Painful Truths to get some CA? It doesnt die like bob, and I guess you can live the dream of drawing 4 cards with PT if you have a thalia in play.

Because Thalia is one of the deck's core strategies. Play more Horizon Canopies first.

Cpt-Qc

01-19-2016, 03:04 AM

Bobmans

01-19-2016, 08:26 AM

I tested replacing 3 SFM and 2 Equip for 3 Dark Confidant, Swamp and Gaea's Cradle.
Dark Confidant did exactly nothing, other then look cool in my hand.
Realistically i feel that the Black requirement pushes the manabase to far. Plus that it indeed catches removal before relevant. Going for something white or green might be better.
I'm gonna leave the cradle in. Add 1 SFM, plus Jitte and SoFaI. That leaves 1 slot for a green 1 drop. I'm actually considering Birds of Paradise, granted that there is no place here for Veteran Explorer. I don't feel the list can lean on DRS as manadorks alone. And let's face it, Heirach don't produce black mana.

EDIT: Has Meren of Clan Nel Toth ever been tried?
The card is pretty insane and is a CA engine on it's own.

barcode

01-19-2016, 01:01 PM

I've been away from Maverick for a while, and I'm slowly shrinking my deck variety way down to this plus a few Griselbrand decks.

If we were to go back to only strict GW, how would the most competitive version look like?
That implies zero DRS and zero Abrupt Decay.

I would start here:

1 Batterskull
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Forest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Plains
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Savannah
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tropical Island
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
2 Choke
2 Containment Priest
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Flusterstorm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce

I've had success with Flusterstorm in the sideboard years ago. I don't know if it's still needed. I also don't know if Sword of Fire and Ice is better now than the old Sword of Light and Shadow.

I too have been thinking of coming back to Maverick and never really liked the black splash.

Koby

01-19-2016, 01:02 PM

I've finally narrowed down to 1 flex creature in my deck... what should I play considering lots of ANT, Lands and Shardless.
Scryb Ranger / Siege Rhino / Thrun ? I don't like Sigarda because she's too expensive and I don't play Cradle.

Edit:
Also, has anyone considered Phyrexian Arena instead of BoB as a 2-of? It wouldn't get killed as much.
I'm currently using Sylvan Library but we have very few 3 drops to take advantage of turn 1 Deathrite.

Similar to adding Painful Truths, we generally don't want spells in this deck if we can find an analog in a creature or land. Just because we can utilize 3 mana on turn 2 reliably does not imply we want to cast a 3 mana spell on turn 2. This is because we are a mana denial deck, and having an opportunity to utilize Wasteland early does more to push Maverick's advantage. A turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary is good. A turn 2 Phyrexian Arena might not be (nevermind the color requirements).

You may want to look at Junk / Abzan mid-range, as this is closer to their strategy.

Remember, Maverick is:
1. Mana denial deck
2. Highly redundant with GSZ and KotR finding elements

(At least that's the guiding principle that I've used when tweaking my versions. Ergo: 4 Thalia, 4 Wasteland)

Cpt-Qc

01-19-2016, 01:11 PM

Similar to adding Painful Truths, we generally don't want spells in this deck if we can find an analog in a creature or land. Just because we can utilize 3 mana on turn 2 reliably does not imply we want to cast a 3 mana spell on turn 2. This is because we are a mana denial deck, and having an opportunity to utilize Wasteland early does more to push Maverick's advantage. A turn 2 Knight of the Reliquary is good. A turn 2 Phyrexian Arena might not be (nevermind the color requirements).

You may want to look at Junk / Abzan mid-range, as this is closer to their strategy.

Remember, Maverick is:
1. Mana denial deck
2. Highly redundant with GSZ and KotR finding elements

(At least that's the guiding principle that I've used when tweaking my versions. Ergo: 4 Thalia, 4 Wasteland)

Right, I just felt like the difference between 2 sylvan and 2 arena wasn't that big but it does count under thalia of course.

Koby

01-19-2016, 01:13 PM

Right, I just felt like the difference between 2 sylvan and 2 arena wasn't that big but it does count under thalia of course.

It's not only the matter of 2 vs 3, but rather 1G (in a green deck) vs 1BB.

Cpt-Qc

01-19-2016, 02:01 PM

I'm trying to find a way to include some more CA since I'm pretty sure we are at a disadvantage against shardless.

I feel like a lot of games end up being "do I get to swing with Jitte/SoFaI". If the answer is no, most other fair decks drown you in CA.

tescrin

01-19-2016, 02:11 PM

There's a few other issues. Dark Confidant when you're behind is bad enough, but at least he can trade with someone and be a huge threat with equips on the field (aside from his other benefits.)

The enchantment not only comes down later and is weaker to a vast number of counterspells while making you weaker to wasteland and such; but also putting you behind on board when you cast it. One could say this about Library; but if we're at a couple spells that do that instead of 4-5, I feel better about it.

I am a proponent of Bitterblossom which has these problems (even though the decks I typically play are heavier in black), but it at least builds board position and is more likely to come down early enough that board position is less worriesome (as well as building board position as it goes.) I started testing it due to Miracles and found it reasonable against all kinds of things (lands, reanimator, miracles, sneakshow, fair decks.)

Back on topic, I'd just worry about that card when considering your board position. If you're paying 1BB, why not just Liliana? Affects the board, this deck goes hellbent a reasonable bit of the time anyway.

EDIT: I think Confidant is probably fine if you have Mom. It may be that Dark Confidant works well with Sylvan Safekeeper so you can GSZ to protect him. This also buffs your miracles game to reasonable levels for the Safekeepr/Teeg combo.

Cpt-Qc

01-19-2016, 02:17 PM

There's a few other issues. Dark Confidant when you're behind is bad enough, but at least he can trade with someone and be a huge threat with equips on the field (aside from his other benefits.)

The enchantment not only comes down later and is weaker to a vast number of counterspells while making you weaker to wasteland and such; but also putting you behind on board when you cast it. One could say this about Library; but if we're at a couple spells that do that instead of 4-5, I feel better about it.

I am a proponent of Bitterblossom which has these problems (even though the decks I typically play are heavier in black), but it at least builds board position and is more likely to come down early enough that board position is less worriesome (as well as building board position as it goes.) I started testing it due to Miracles and found it reasonable against all kinds of things (lands, reanimator, miracles, sneakshow, fair decks.)

Back on topic, I'd just worry about that card when considering your board position. If you're paying 1BB, why not just Liliana? Affects the board, this deck goes hellbent a reasonable bit of the time anyway.

Yeah to tell the truth I had forgotten Arena had BB in it's cost. This changes a lot... I don't want to go too deep on the black splash.

Bitterblossom Maverick... that could be funny lol. Would have to replace sword with a second Jitte :really:

tescrin

01-19-2016, 02:29 PM

Yeah to tell the truth I had forgotten Arena had BB in it's cost. This changes a lot... I don't want to go too deep on the black splash.

Bitterblossom Maverick... that could be funny lol. Would have to replace sword with a second Jitte :really:

Let me backtrack and say that by Bitterblossom adventures have been in Junk; so YMMV; I was more pointing out the possible hypocrisy in my opinion lol. I started it out with Goyf because of the double buff, but at the moment I've dropped goyf again because it's not a common problem to pump opposing goyfs if you have sufficient removal or bigger beasties/tokens/protection.

EDIT: It's also good to note that it's *really* good against reanimator and I suspect lands. It's also super bad in multiples unless they kill one (two faeries vs. a bad DRS effect every turn increases the opposing clock too much.)

I did edit the previous post a minute ago to say that Safekeeper may fix Bob. GSZ into Keeper + Bob can give you a more reliable way to land him.

Bobmans

01-19-2016, 02:40 PM

tescrin

01-19-2016, 02:52 PM

Bob + Keeper is worth a shot. Keeper might also fill the role of the goto 1 mana green creature.
Problem i have with keeper is that i may suicide your own manabase to much. I seem to get a bit on trouble there already sometimes.

This is why I bring up the combination rather than the vacuum case. Bob draws a lot of lands.
I'll forecast that the deck will have more issues with Forked Bolt than it already does.

Cpt-Qc

01-19-2016, 05:03 PM

Let me backtrack and say that by Bitterblossom adventures have been in Junk; so YMMV; I was more pointing out the possible hypocrisy in my opinion lol. I started it out with Goyf because of the double buff, but at the moment I've dropped goyf again because it's not a common problem to pump opposing goyfs if you have sufficient removal or bigger beasties/tokens/protection.

EDIT: It's also good to note that it's *really* good against reanimator and I suspect lands. It's also super bad in multiples unless they kill one (two faeries vs. a bad DRS effect every turn increases the opposing clock too much.)

I did edit the previous post a minute ago to say that Safekeeper may fix Bob. GSZ into Keeper + Bob can give you a more reliable way to land him.

I guessed as much with BB, I was mostly kidding :tongue:

Indeed putting 2 bobs + 1 safekeeper could fix the CA issue as once keeper is active you can protect bob as much as you need.
I guess it would be ok to drop 1 mom for a keeper since they do the same thing too.

Warden

01-19-2016, 07:10 PM

I guessed as much with BB, I was mostly kidding :tongue:

Indeed putting 2 bobs + 1 safekeeper could fix the CA issue as once keeper is active you can protect bob as much as you need.
I guess it would be ok to drop 1 mom for a keeper since they do the same thing too.

Mom is superior to Safekeeper under most situations. The reason is because Mom can be proactive ("give my giant KotR protection from the colors you play so I can lethal you") or reactive. Safekeeper is exclusively reactive against spells. The only upsides to Safekeeper is 1) he's can be zenith'ed 2) if your meta is nothing but spot removal, he can operational a turn faster than Mom and 3) he can "combo" with KotR. There are some corner cases like protecting against Price of Progress, etc...but these are VERY small % situations. I play 4 moms because eventually running through your opponent's defense > preventing spot removal IMHO.

@Bob: If you are dead-set on playing him, I'd suggest you run Vials and 1-2 Cavern instead of GSZ. There have been winning lists that ran 2x Bob, but I really disagree with their direction. Again, he's too risky and strains the manabase too much.

@Cpt-Qc "I'm trying to find a way to include some more CA since I'm pretty sure we are at a disadvantage against shardless"
^^ This. My previous post I said I was looking at Collective Company or something along that line. I'm not exactly sure what Maverick can run. I just feel every other deck is better at playing midrange. Painful Truths isn't the solution either.

@barcode: Meddling Mage in the SB would be pretty strong right now. I actually like the idea of Flusterstorm + Meddling Mage + Canonist as the all-in anti-combo package.

kithkinz

01-20-2016, 07:25 PM

Hey everyone, looking for some general tips on playing against certain matchups, in particular Death & Taxes, Miracles, and Shardless. What should I be prioritizing/targeting with removal, how should the games generally play out, and what kind of openers am I looking for? I feel very comfortable piloting this style of deck but just have a lack of experience against a wide field and find myself falling short due to knowledge.

My current build is:

4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Plains
2 Forest

2 Zealous Persecution
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Choke
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
1 Painful Truths

Thanks!

Skizz

01-25-2016, 10:28 AM

Hello everyone,
Last weekend I won a small local event with 20 participants going over 5 rounds.
I beat some kind of Junk, Painter, Elves, Goblins and Hypergenesis. 5:0 (10:3 in Rounds)
Surprisingly nobody played miracles, and I dodged the other blue decks.
I expected more decks like Affinity, Painter, and MUD so I wanted to test a single Kataki, which won me game 2 against painter.

Sideboard decisions: (some single decisions could be better, but it worked for me)
I didn`t board anything against the Junk Deck because in Game 1 the only cards I saw was a Trinisphere (w00t?!) and a Green Suns Zenith into Pridemage. Game 2 he was manascrewd. Was a easy game
Against Painter: IN: Kataki (won Game 2), Krosan Grip, Pithing Needle, Darkblast, 1 Toxic Deluge
OUT: 1 SFM + Sword of Fire and Ice, 1 Knight, Sigarda
Against Elves: IN: 2 Ethersworn Canonist, 2 ZPersecution, Darkblast, Toxic Deluge and Containment Priest
OUT: Sigarda, 2 Pridemage, 1 Library, 1 Knight, Sword of Fire & Ice, 1 Thalia
Against Goblins: IN: 2 Z.Persecution, Toxic Deluge, Darkblast, Pithing Needle, Containment Priest
OUT: 4 Thalia, Sigarda, 1 Library
Against Hypergenesis: IN: 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Ethersworn Canonist, 1 Gaddock Teeg, 1 Containment Priest
OUT: 2 Abrupt Decay, 2 Stoneforge Mystic, Jitte, Sword F/I

I think for the next tournament I will try an Aven Mindcensor / (Scrybranger) in the spot of Sigarda, we`ll see…
Kataki was good especially if protected with Mother of Runes against Painter.
Darkblast was insane in the creature matchups.

It was great to play against a lot of creature based decks so the Knights/Thalia/Wasteland and SFM Package could do their thing :cool:

Heres my 60:
1 Forrest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Gaeas Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasal Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Green Suns Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawas Jitte

Sideboard:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Containment Priest
2 Choke
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Darkblast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
1 Kataki, Wars Wage

maharis

01-28-2016, 04:53 PM

I've been playing a lot of Bant Stoneblade but have had the urge to drop Thalia on people, so I've been testing this GWu depths version... super fun, seems pretty strong, good outs to combo.

4 noble hierarch
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 mother of runes
3 knight of the reliquary
2 scavenging ooze
2 stoneforge mystic
2 qasali pridemage
1 trygon predator
1 scryb ranger
1 courser of kruphix
1 eternal witness
1 dryad arbor

4 green sun's zenith
4 swords to plowshares
2 sylvan library
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of fire and ice

4 windswept heath
4 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
3 savannah
1 forest
1 plains
1 dark depths
1 thespian's stage
1 karakas
1 tropical island
1 tundra

2 meddling mage
2 containment priest
1 flusterstorm
1 envelop
1 krosan grip
1 pithing needle
1 garruk relentless
1 council's judgment
1 carpet of flowers
1 krosan grip
1 gaddock teeg
1 tormod's crypt
1 life from the loam

Wintersmith

01-30-2016, 04:46 AM

If I played Bant-colors, I would like to test Stifle. I've been blown out by clever use of Stifle too many times. Fetches, Wastelands, DRS activations, SFM triggers and whatnot. One mana ld hurts!
Need to go through my list tonight for tomorrows +50 people tournament. Expected decks probably include any usual tier 1-2 decks. Due my luck in my previous tourney, I expect to face many combo decks...:rolleyes:

TMagpie

02-05-2016, 05:21 PM

I am only now starting to test Thrun for the Miracles matchup. With Karakas he seems absolutely devastating--what's the main problem with him I'm not seeing? Why don't I see more of him?

Seraphix

02-05-2016, 09:15 PM

I am only now starting to test Thrun for the Miracles matchup. With Karakas he seems absolutely devastating--what's the main problem with him I'm not seeing? Why don't I see more of him?

Unless you have your Karakas they can still answer him with Terminus or Council's Judgment. Now they can even block him more effectively with Monk tokens.

Uncounterability is strong but I'm not sure he makes the cut anymore. These days I prefer to play Elspeth, Garruk, or Armageddon.

tescrin

02-16-2016, 08:08 PM

To the Sigarda, BSK, and/or other bomb people. I was just getting ready to sell my Lotus Cobras.. Cobri? Cobrases?, saw his little 2/1 body and thought "Hmm.."

I immediately considered Stoneforge, equips, and the pain that can be BSK stuck in your hand; GSZ seeming to fit perfectly with his "you have way too much mana" abilities, and certainly Knight ramping you a net +2-3 mana is drool-worthy. I think he may actually be playable as a way to T3 cast-equip SoFaI or BSK, allowing BSK in the main without having to 4x Stoneforge (though you could..)

Given the fact you'd have even more ramp-age going on, it may start being feasible to look at the Thrun, Sigarda, BSK kinds of plans.

Certainly deck space is somewhat tight if you start going the Oath route; but I think this could be a good way of getting huge mana for those beloved cast-equip moments or solving the BSK problem.

I've repeated myself a bunch here; but I also figure that someone has tried this. Can anyone enlighten me why this is pure garbage so I can sell my cobras? Or say it's test worthy so we can brew? I have to assume someone has considered that ramping your equips and solving the hardcast BSK problem would've come by now, and that it's probably just bad (hence why it's not a thing), but.. I hold out hope.

Megadeus

02-16-2016, 08:19 PM

I like the idea. I think he's a very powerful man. I mean you can play hierarch into him + stoneforge turn 2 into t3 cast and equip nicely. Also him plus knight is completely insane.

tescrin

02-17-2016, 12:22 AM

I like the idea. I think he's a very powerful man. I mean you can play hierarch into him + stoneforge turn 2 into t3 cast and equip nicely. Also him plus knight is completely insane.

Oh wow, I hadn't considered what T1 ramp does to him:
T1 Land and GSZ/Hierarch/DRS
T2 Play Cobra, Fetch, Play SFM, Fetch BSK

They have to kill both or you can easily cast BSK or slide it into play. I could see some hands being a little awkward with all lands/rampers and no targets, but GSZ, KotR, and the Green-bombs/BSK seem enough to make it semi-reliable. Not sure how you fit him into the deck as I rarely am the type to run Thalia main'd (Junk/brew guy) but maybe instead of Moms you can fit him in, drop a couple lands, fit in oaths for 1-drops and stuff.

Also, T3 Sigarda from GSZ is easy:
T1 Land and GSZ/Hierarch/DRS
T2 Play Cobra and land. (?)
T3 Play a fetch (2), tap for 4, GSZ sigarda

-23-
4 DRS
4 Thalia
3 Lotus Cobra
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 KotR
1 Thrun
1 Sigarda

-6-
1 Jitte
1 SoFaI
1 BSK
3 Oath of Nissa

-11-
4 GSZ
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

-20 lands- (1 Arbor)

Needs some adjusting from more Maverick-y pilots; but you get the idea. 10 hyper-aggressive bombs that are much easier to cast with Cobra; seems lower to the ground with Oaths. Personally, I'd run 21 lands with the Arbor, but I always run 61 (if I'm not running Brainstorm/Ponder)

As an aside, 4 Oath with 20 Lands and 4 DRS has been working great for me in Junk/Jund/4c brews, so I think it's very doable.

Nargoron

02-19-2016, 02:38 AM

3 Oath of Nissa

If you run 4x Thalia then Oath slow you down... and iam not sure if cobra help to fix it.
Oath alone doesnt look too much interesting for me, in my oppinion need some support like Flickerwisp ?
But still.. i rather play Sylvan library or top or i didnt catch a point of Oath, then can you help me to understand power of this card?

About lotus cobra iam rly interesting if it works. The downside is that if u r mana screwed, cobra absolutly cant help u... but if you have enough mana? Then you have just ... more mana.
On the other hand if it goes well, then you can zenith sigarda/thrun very soon :).

Echelon

02-19-2016, 02:45 AM

Concerning Lotus Cobra: That's all very nice, but you still have to keep in mind Daze is a card and so are Lightning Bolt/Abrupt Decay/any other random creature removal spell.

By the time you're able to safely drop it on the board, odds are you need to topdeck a land to trigger its Landfall, severely diminishing its worth. Also, not cracking fetches so you might gain some value out of them with a Cobra you cast later seems kinda backwards (but those are the lines you open yourself up to).

If you want to ramp, just run Nic Fit. Lotus Cobra is a beautiful concept but the execution is unfortunately rather awkward when it comes to sequencing.

sdematt

02-19-2016, 04:02 AM

I think a 3/2 or 2/3 split (or 2/2/1) split of Noble/DRS/BOP is enough ramp, since you also have GSZ on 0 as well as a line. I don't think you need a ton more.

-Matt

nevilshute

02-19-2016, 04:58 AM

Hello Maverickers. I've played this deck off and on since 2012 (mostly off). Normally I play storm-combo but I tend to gravitate back towards some kind of thalia.deck every now and again. I record matches from magic online (again, mostly storm), and recently decided to play a bunch of matches with Maverick and record them. It was a lot of fun and I ended up winning way more than I expected - these are pay-to-play matches so I was expecting at least some level of opposition.

Anyway, check out the videos if you feel like it. The sound level ratio of intro-music to voice is slightly off in some of them so I hope you can bear with me. That will be fixed for future vids. Hope you enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHk0w4Md8v4BPpFx7DxmSGWiB4pavFCzY

Nargoron

02-19-2016, 06:50 AM

Anyway, check out the videos if you feel like it. The sound level ratio of intro-music to voice is slightly off in some of them so I hope you can bear with me. That will be fixed for future vids. Hope you enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHk0w4Md8v4BPpFx7DxmSGWiB4pavFCzY

Hi nevilshute,

why are you playing Gaea's cradle, when your most expensive card is on 3mana? I expect some trun,sigarda or ... or batterskul as next part of mystic's toolkit.

nevilshute

02-19-2016, 06:58 AM

Hi nevilshute,

why are you playing Gaea's cradle, when your most expensive card is on 3mana? I expect some trun,sigarda or ... or batterskul as next part of mystic's toolkit.

Hey there Nargoron. It just seems strong enough as a cast-and-equip SoFaI and Jitte to a lesser extent, plus Ooze can get crazy with it as well. That said I'm not married to the notion. What would you have in its place? :smile:

Asthereal

02-19-2016, 07:06 AM

If you run 4x Thalia then Oath slows you down...
This also counts for Green Sun's Zenith, yet Zenith has been the core of this deck for a long time.

Besides, Oath can be cast on turn one, curving nicely into Thalia (or any other hate bear you might find with it). Oath of Nissa should be viewed as a Ponder for Maverick. I think it should fot the deck really nicely. Right now I am trying out a list with 3-4x Oath, 3x Zenith and 0x Dryad Arbor, since Zenith->Arbor is our saddest turn one play anyway, and drawing Arbor naturally is usually just bad.

Comparing Oath of Nissa to Sylvan Library makes sense, so let's do that.
Here are the pro's & con's for each card, as I see them. (Be sure to suggest additions!)

Oath of Nissa:
+ Cheaper (G)
+ Immidiate effect when you cast it
+ Replaces itself (almost guaranteed in this deck)
(+ Makes it easy to splash off colour planeswalkers)
- No card advantage
- No continuous card selection

Sylvan Library:
+ Card advantage against control decks (when C/A matters)
+ Continuous card selection
- More expensive to cast (1G)
- No immidiate effect when cast
- Doesn't replace itself when low on life

So the cards do pretty different things for us. Oath of Nissa seems to be best when cast early. It's cheap and has immidiate effect, so we can use it to improve our early game. This is important against Combo and aggressive decks, since we need our early game to be optimal to not lose games against them. Against control decks we are allowed more time to build up and we lose to bombs and card advantage engines, so Sylvan Library has more impact in those matchups. Oath of Nissa is still a good card there, just not as good.

But... Oath of Nissa helps us splash off colour planeswalkers. I mentioned this on a side note in my pro's and con's analysis, since most won't see any importance in this feature, yet think about it: who would ever destroy an Oath? It doesn't really do anything. Except for allowing me to find and then easily cast Kiora, Master of the Depths or Liliana of the Veil. Cards like these can be great assets in grindy games. If we want to play planeswalkers anyway, in an effort to improve our game against control decks, the impact Oath of Nissa can make will improve.

I'm not trying to say we should all play Oath, but it's a VERY interesting option. :smile:

Nargoron

02-19-2016, 07:52 AM

Hey there Nargoron. It just seems strong enough as a cast-and-equip SoFaI and Jitte to a lesser extent, plus Ooze can get crazy with it as well. That said I'm not married to the notion. What would you have in its place? :smile:
eh.. no replace, i love cradle.. and its fine with equipments ... i agree, but if you are playing one piece... then i wanna play-maybe?- thrun or add batterskul... which has nice synergy with library, you can draw as a madman... and both - thrun and batterskul are thorn in the ass for miracles :)

This also counts for Green Sun's Zenith, yet Zenith has been the core of this deck for a long time.

Besides, Oath can be cast on turn one, curving nicely into Thalia (or any other hate bear you might find with it). Oath of Nissa should be viewed as a Ponder for Maverick. I think it should fot the deck really nicely. Right now I am trying out a list with 3-4x Oath, 3x Zenith and 0x Dryad Arbor, since Zenith->Arbor is our saddest turn one play anyway, and drawing Arbor naturally is usually just bad.

Comparing Oath of Nissa to Sylvan Library makes sense, so let's do that.
Here are the pro's & con's for each card, as I see them. (Be sure to suggest additions!)

Oath of Nissa:
+ Cheaper (G)
+ Immidiate effect when you cast it
+ Replaces itself (almost guaranteed in this deck)
(+ Makes it easy to splash off colour planeswalkers)
- No card advantage
- No continuous card selection

Sylvan Library:
+ Card advantage against control decks (when C/A matters)
+ Continuous card selection
- More expensive to cast (1G)
- No immidiate effect when cast
- Doesn't replace itself when low on life

So the cards do pretty different things for us. Oath of Nissa seems to be best when cast early. It's cheap and has immidiate effect, so we can use it to improve our early game. This is important against Combo and aggressive decks, since we need our early game to be optimal to not lose games against them. Against control decks we are allowed more time to build up and we lose to bombs and card advantage engines, so Sylvan Library has more impact in those matchups. Oath of Nissa is still a good card there, just not as good.

But... Oath of Nissa helps us splash off colour planeswalkers. I mentioned this on a side note in my pro's and con's analysis, since most won't see any importance in this feature, yet think about it: who would ever destroy an Oath? It doesn't really do anything. Except for allowing me to find and then easily cast Kiora, Master of the Depths or Liliana of the Veil. Cards like these can be great assets in grindy games. If we want to play planeswalkers anyway, in an effort to improve our game against control decks, the impact Oath of Nissa can make will improve.

I'm not trying to say we should all play Oath, but it's a VERY interesting option. :smile:

but still... i think that 1x sylvan library is must in maverick...
but you dont wanna have multiple copies in your hand, then i can imagine somthing like 1x library 2x oath ?
Oath can be a nice with library, library show you some bad cards, you cant draw them with paying live, so you put them throw them out with oath... as example.
Cose the biggist issue with maverick i had was RNG with topdeck, you dont have brainstorm, top or ponder... and consistency is a key for good result.
And as you mention oath has instant speed-- thats the biggist disadvantage of library -> too slow.

Then if u r talking about planeswalker, lili isnt lady for maverick, maybe for punishing maverick... but you have 0 card to discard and use it as removal is just too expensive. Then i suggest Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Sorin, Solemn Visitor. They could be nice against fair decks...

ok,why not try it

Echelon

02-19-2016, 07:56 AM

If you want to improve your topdecks, try a Courser of Kruphix with a shitload of shuffle effects.

Works like a charm.

Nargoron

02-19-2016, 08:02 AM

If you want to improve your topdecks, try a Courser of Kruphix with a shitload of shuffle effects.

Works like a charm.

Totaly agree.
Unfortunatly his mnc 3 - you have very often just better option (knigh for example). I like Kruphix, but his effect came too late.
But still i want him in maverick...

Batterskull just seems less desirable when running less than the full set of mystics. And, unlike D&T, we have knight to gum up the ground and pound face. I might be up for trying Thrun though. Sunning for him after a terminus is great.
Yea, i was running 3x mystic when i was playing batterskul , if u r running two of them, batterskul rly dont worth it.

But when there was discusion about oath of nissa, then gaeas cradle should be nice when u play some 4cmc planeswalker :)

nevilshute

02-19-2016, 08:13 AM

Batterskull just seems less desirable when running less than the full set of mystics. And, unlike D&T, we have knight to gum up the ground and pound face. I might be up for trying Thrun though. Sunning for him after a terminus is great.

Echelon

02-19-2016, 08:17 AM

Totaly agree.
Unfortunatly his mnc 3 - you have very often just better option (knigh for example). I like Kruphix, but his effect came too late.
But still i want him in maverick...

Courser actually shines in the lategame. It gets rid of topdecked lands and repurposes fetchlands into shuffle effect to get rid of other unwanted cards on the top. It has helped me win quite a number of games whenever I topdecked it (or on occasion GSZ'd for it). Knowing not to crack a fetch b/c there's something important on the top of your library can really make the difference in games.

Asthereal

02-19-2016, 09:13 AM

but still... i think that 1x sylvan library is must in maverick...
but you dont wanna have multiple copies in your hand, then i can imagine somthing like 1x library 2x oath ?

Then if u r talking about planeswalker, lili isnt lady for maverick, maybe for punishing maverick... but you have 0 card to discard and use it as removal is just too expensive.
Sylvan indeed is still great. I'd definitely recommend playing at least one in the 75. Maybe if you run a large number of Oaths, the Sylvan should be in the board, but 2x Oath + 1x Sylvan seems like a fair place to start.

My test list runs 4x Oath main and 1x Sylvan on side, but it's still in the trial phase. :wink:

For the Planeswalkers: Liliana will help against combo as well. She kills Show&tell and Reanimator guys really nicely and she discards Storm cards as well, so she has merits against more decks than just control. Courser was an excellent suggestion. Lily plus Courser should help you play good cards from the top of your deck. Add one Sylvan from the board and we should be good against control.

But the first Walker I mentioned was Kiora, Master of the Depths. She is highly underplayed. Kiora with Knight of the Reliquary means we get to abuse Maze of Ith like a maniac. We attack with Knight, untap with Maze at the end of combat step. We use Knight to fetch up a Wasteland, then use Kiora to untap Knight and Maze, use Knight again to fetch up a 2nd Wasteland, Waste two lands and have Maze up for defense. Next turn we use Kiora to draw two cards, since 80+% of what we play is creature or land anyway.

How does that sound? :cool:

Megadeus

02-19-2016, 09:19 AM

For those that are playing oath, have you altered your sideboard to take it into account? Like playing more creature based hate that actually gets found off of it

Asthereal

02-19-2016, 11:59 AM

For those that are playing oath, have you altered your sideboard to take it into account? Like playing more creature based hate that actually gets found off of it
I always play quite a number of dudes in the board anyway, but we play so many guys that even when going down a few we should still profit from Oath of Nissa.

CantDecide

02-19-2016, 12:29 PM

Any thoughts on Nissa, voice of zendikar + oran rief? and then add gaea's cradle to the mix for a lot of mana?

tescrin

02-19-2016, 01:17 PM

For those that are playing oath, have you altered your sideboard to take it into account? Like playing more creature based hate that actually gets found off of it
Not really, but I'm on an E.Tutor build. My current side is:

3 E. Tutor
1 Chalice
1 Cage
1 EE
1 EPlague
1 Rest in Peace
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Warmth
2 Canonist
2 Containment Priest
1 Toxic Deluge

Drew

02-22-2016, 03:22 PM

I want to get some opinions on my list. It has been doing well for me although I don't seeuch combo in my meta so I don't worry about those decks too much. It is a greedy list, but I would rather be greedy and effective than have lots of dead cards against random matchups. The list is as follows:

Lands:
2 wasteland
1 karakas
1 maze of ith
1 horizon canopy
1 plains
1 forest
1 swamp
2 bayou
3 scrub land
4 savannah
1 bloodstained mire
1 polluted delta
4 windswept heath

Creatures
1 dryad arbor
1 scavenging ooze
1 qasali pridemage
1 batterskull
2 dark confidant
4 deathrite shaman
4 mother of runes
4 kotr
4 stoneforge mystic

Spells
2 jitte
3 thought seize
3 abrupt decay
4 gsz
4 swords

Sideboard
1 bojuka bog
1 thrun
1 sword of fire and ice
1 sword of feast and famine
1 sylvan library
2 pernicious deed
4 lingering souls
4 Thalia

What yall think about this variant? I understand it's not straight up traditional but I feel like it can deal with a lot of different matchups and most of all it has great synergy.

tescrin

02-22-2016, 04:18 PM

I want to get some opinions on my list. It has been doing well for me although I don't seeuch combo in my meta so I don't worry about those decks too much. It is a greedy list, but I would rather be greedy and effective than have lots of dead cards against random matchups. The list is as follows:

Lands:
2 wasteland
1 maze of ith
1 horizon canopy

1 batterskull
2 jitte
3 thought seize

Sideboard
1 bojuka bog
1 thrun
1 sword of fire and ice
1 sword of feast and famine
1 sylvan library
2 pernicious deed
4 lingering souls

What yall think about this variant? I understand it's not straight up traditional but I feel like it can deal with a lot of different matchups and most of all it has great synergy.

I think you should run it a bit. I think you're missing the point of the deck and should probably move this to The Rock forum. Thalia + Wasteland + KotR is basically the point of the deck. Lacking Gaddock Teeg is a huge mistake IMO. Bog is bad except in Crop Rotation decks. Second Jitte is very pointless. 4 Equipments feels meh, 5 for sure seems bad. 4 Lingering Souls seems a bit much. Deed is slow and meh for most matches unless you adjust your deck to it.

Drew

02-22-2016, 05:12 PM

I never run all equipment at one time so would never be more than 3 in the deck. Bog is there as a solid out against reanimator decks that I do face. I agree souls could be cut down. I got Teague and he could def see the side board, I just don't face much combo but he is a great hate bear for that. I run 2 jitte cause that is honestly what I reach for first over batterskull and it get blown up often, so I want the second copy, if I don't see the artifact destruction in game 1 it gets out to board and keep 1 copy. How would you suggest I adjust more to deed? I like plenty of the lingering souls to help reset after popping a deed and when in they are usually in together. Overall do you think it has a chance at success? Thanks for the reply!

tescrin

02-22-2016, 05:54 PM

reply

Bog: Trust me when I say that Bog is too slow (sorcery speed) and too ineffectual most of the time. It can be instant speed with KotR, but that's minimum Turn 3; which is rare. And the first thing you'll be trying to set up is Karakas, which may or may not work depending on the build they're on. If you get karakas T3 and pop their guy and they either Inkwell, Ashen Rider, or Archtype you; your Bog is not only too late, but basically not going to do anything. As a guy who religiously ran it with KotR, it's decent; but it's not good enough.

Deed: I'd swap Deeds for Toxic Deluge, Engineered Plague, and or Zealous Persecution. You usually want 3 or so sweepers, and IMO a variety. Engineered Explosives isn't bad either. I get you're looking for the "why", and it's because you have a high number of permanents, making getting value off of deed dubious.

Jitte#2: I get why it's there, but planning for the game to hit your second equipment doesn't make a lot of sense IMO. If it gets blown up, SoFaI will still do the job and if it doesn't then the second is dead. SoFaI is a lot better than it looks in a lot of situations (TNN, Thopter Combo, Young-Pyro tokens, Jace, Shardless, etc.)

SoFaF/Batterskull: sdematt would probably be happy with this, but IMO, just stick to 3 equips and choose which, rather than having 5 and trying to alter your deck.

Teeg: He's 5 copies of a Hatebear for a single card of deck space. I think you can fit him. It's roughly half of the point to running GSZ at all; because it multiplies your chances of successfully finding it in the right MU by 5x or so. Truly a must-have for any GSZ deck. Elves only doesn't use it because of NO and the fact it blocks GSZs (and the fact that they can just race other combo decks.) Even in the side, you should at least remove a thalia and put him in, then worry about finding room for the 4th thalia; but honestly not running him in the main seems insane for the value. \\

Lingering Souls: I think 3 copies is fine. You'll have a mediocre Miracles matchup either way. Without Thalia in the main, I don't see why they're even in the sideboard to be honest. With her in the main, I could see you swapping to Bitterblossom; but that's a personal preference and you probably won't have your thalias mained anyway.

Lands: You have 25 land cards; you should shave 3-5 IMO. You could do:
-1 Maze
-2 Savannah
-1 Scrubland

for +3-4 Oath of Nissa and you'd have roughly the same consistency. Maze is pretty Meh (but it's cool) and Oaths increase consistency so you don't draw dead too often. Consider it IMO. How would you shave #5? Noble Hierarch, but at $30+, I'll leave it be as I anticipate you're on a budget.

Gravehate: Please just add a couple of Grafdigger's cages. I know you don't want dead cards in the side, but they are very very very good and you'll need them at some point. Get used to running grave hate in the side and don't skimp. The worst feeling in the world is knowing you could be running 1-mana colorless cards that give you free wins. As soon as a budget dredge player starts ruining your day or you are too slow against reanimator you'll be sad you didn't have them. Same for Storm, Elves, and similar.

Drew

02-22-2016, 06:58 PM

I hear you on the grave hate and the potential slowness of bog, that is something I will have to look at for sure. I have the hierarchs already so no worries, but what gives you the opinion of a budget build? I got my goblins for cheap thrills lol. Thalia is in the sideboard cause I rather speed my clock than slow others down, but if there is a lot of miracles around it is important to main deck. The equipment changes make sense so likely sub fire and ice for second jitte and drop the others? How would you propose fitting Thalia main? I tried to have enough disruption and removal with ts, abrupt decay and swords. I agree deed may hit me too hard as well the other cards mentioned probably will offer better value and I should test them. Once again thanks for the feedback especially cause I know this is not the common maverick list, but I did base it on what I have read here and then adjusted to my own tastes. My roots as a goblin player probably show in my taste for greater agression over control with Thalia boarded.

Mirrislegend

03-02-2016, 05:19 PM

ironclad8690

03-02-2016, 05:23 PM

Megadeus

03-02-2016, 05:38 PM

Cambriel

03-02-2016, 08:34 PM

The match you're truly giving up is Elves. It is so one-sided it's almost laughable. You might as well concede and go get lunch unless your opponent can't do Craterhoof math.

tescrin

03-03-2016, 12:25 PM

The match you're truly giving up is Elves. It is so one-sided it's almost laughable. You might as well concede and go get lunch unless your opponent can't do Craterhoof math.
Teeg does alright here, forcing natural Hoof or Glimpse-Chain into Elf Beats; which aren't bad but are beatable.

Depends on the Maverick deck too. If it's a depths version I think you can get Depths online T3 with a strong draw; which is enough to block their huge Hoof and probably leave you alive at low HP, swinging for lethal over the top.

T1 - Mana-dude
T2 - KotR
T3 - Play Depths or Stage, Float a mana, Fetch Depths or Stage with KotR, use the floating mana + other land or mana-dude to crack it. You also still have a mana open for Plow.

While I'm not big on the Depths plan, if there's an argument for it I'd imagine it's those pesky combo matches.

Mirrislegend

03-03-2016, 04:04 PM

tescrin

03-03-2016, 06:29 PM

Thanks for the input everyone! One more question:

How has the Stoneforge package been working for you guys? I've been playing it in other decks and it's been kinda weak these days in everything but Stoneblade, which has countermagic, discard, and Lingering Souls to maximize its effectiveness. In your opinions, in what matchups is it strongest/most useful for us? Weakest? What made you pick certain equipment?

Personally I've been off of SFM for a month or three (in Junk, Jund, or other colors) and been happy about it. That said, it's pretty core to Maverick.

IMO, for now:
* Jitte -> always an autoinclude. Forces an instant win many times. Great in maverick due to almost always having extra mana dorks.
* SoFaI -> This is usually in for people because it's up to +2 CA every swing and the protections get you passed TNN and Young Pyro. Swings passed most of Shardless as well.
* Batterskull -> I think some would contest this; but I think between Thalia and Mom it's alright. It's mostly there to fetch so you can lead with Stoneforge and force them to remove SFM that way your later threats have less removal to get through, and you get to keep BSK as a bonus.

The deck has issues right now I think as most of the top decks are mediocre MUs. Shardless is alright, Lands is ok, D&T is fine, but Miracles and ANT are quite good against you and Lands can easily take you out on average I think. If you maindeck a singleton Scavenging Ooze and prepare your side with some discard, sweepers, and gravehate, you can do fine I imagine.

Stuhl

03-08-2016, 06:28 AM

I'm new to the archetype and just trying to understand some stuff that was unclear in the primer.

Obviously, the deck is situated to be the best fair creature deck in the format. However, it is heavily unfavored against all combo. Do we just give up those game 1s every time? I've played similar decks with lots of discard and had some combo trouble. This archetype, with such little or zero discard, must be SCREWED against combo. I know about Thalia, Teeg, Wasteland, Karakas, etc. But I don't see how that can keep up. Am I missing something?

Well, Maverick is my pet deck for a long time now. I love it as, in contrast to established decks like ANT or Temur Delver you can vary the choice of cards according to your play style and preferences. Green Sun's Zenith gives you a nice tool box and from Scryb Ranger over Gaddock Teeg and Ooze to Thrun or Sigarda you can play powerful green tool box creatures. That way the games never get boring and you can fight all decks.

The irony is, that Maverick, although not playing counterspells, has a rather good combo MU. Well, of course not against durdly T1 combo decks, but hey, a blue mage without FoW in hand also loses to that. Nowadays you won't face decks like Oops All Spells or Tin Fins that often. Most combo decks are ANT which, most of the time, give you the chance to land a Thalia or cast a GSZ for x=2 to fetch Gaddock Teeg. Both scenarios are pretty GG. After sideboarding most Maverick players have access to up to 4 Thoughtseize, 1-2 Ethersworn Canonist, a 2nd Gaddock Teeg and, in case of reanimator combo, Containment Priests. The Reanimator decks also struggle pretty hard with the 4 MD Deathrites, 1-2 Oozes, Karakas and Swords.

Against other "fair" decks we stand pretty strong thanks to Mother of Runes and Knights. BUG and Miracles are not that easy as they can cast Terminus or Toxic Deluge which wipes our board despite of Mother of Runes. Yet, one can prepare for those MUs with a strong SB plan. A resolved Choke pretty much locks Miracles, Pithing Needle has some nice all round applications and Wilt-Leaf Lieges can grow your dudes against BUG and the new Eldrazi decks.

In my eyes, Elves is the worst MU. But also there one can put cards like Zealous Persecution, Canonist, Needle, Gaddock Teeg, ... into the SB.

All in all I think that Maverick is still a viable choice for a Legacy tournament. I don't know why it is such underrepresented as I always tend to have a good finish in tounaments. Nevertheless I like it when decks are not on the radar of people. I think that most prefer to play DnT or Loam decks. In my eyes Maverick is like a symbiosis of both.

Depends on the Maverick deck too. If it's a depths version I think you can get Depths online T3 with a strong draw; which is enough to block their huge Hoof and probably leave you alive at low HP, swinging for lethal over the top.

Well, I used to play the DD combo and I think in average it takes too much time for getting it online against combo decks. In the Miracles meta it isn't that strong, either, as lots of Karakas and Swords are played. I think in general the two lands are more disturbing and one has a tighter play with just a Cradle in that spot to get crazy with equipment and Oozes.

Cpt-Qc

03-08-2016, 11:11 PM

Stuhl

03-09-2016, 04:46 AM

I just took my maverick to my first FNM and I feel so drained... I went in time 3 out of 4 rounds!
I'll need to learn to play faster. I'm used to playing combo decks.

I won two rounds (DnT and Bant CoCo) and lost two (punishing loam and punishing jund).

What is the best option to beat pfire decks? I felt I was on the defensive the whole time and I didn't like it.
The only thing that kept me alive was the equipments and when they got rid of them I got crushed.

Edit: I was thinking of going bigger and hexproof, maybe Sigarda or Thrun? I currently have nothing to GSZ that's bigger than KoTr.

Well, pfire decks are beaten best with Scavenging Ooze and Shamans. Try to get an Ooze into play which can grow 3/3 immediately (but be careful, if they have mana open and you only 1G available you need to stall the game until your next turn. I think that's obvious but many people make mistakes there.). Then you can start eating their grave. Without the Loam engine these decks are pretty slow. Same is against Lands decks. All you need is to get rid of Loam. I recently play 2 Scavenging Ooze main, and only 1 Pridemage. I think that Stoneblade decks are not really being around right now but lots of Loam/pfire/graveyard stuff.
But it's a tempo game and probably very depended on who is on the play. You definitely need a one drop, having an active MoR favors us pretty strong against these decks.

I definitely recommend one bigger creature than KotR. The best in vacuum is Sigarda, as she has evasion, hexproof, is 5/5 (blocks most Goyfs) and the 2nd ability sometimes matters a lot (against BUG/Jund decks. Sometimes you even get her into play via Sneak and Show which stops Emrakul's trigger.). But outside of the vacuum in a Miracles meta right now Thrun ist probably the better choice. He lands save, survives Verdict and with Karakas you even can navigate through Terminus. He is also great against BUG/Delver decks. Uncounterable is pretty strong in my opinion. For that reason I even play 2 Cavern of Souls.

Seraphix

03-09-2016, 12:25 PM

tescrin

03-09-2016, 12:59 PM

I just took my maverick to my first FNM and I feel so drained... I went in time 3 out of 4 rounds!
I'll need to learn to play faster. I'm used to playing combo decks.

I won two rounds (DnT and Bant CoCo) and lost two (punishing loam and punishing jund).

What is the best option to beat pfire decks? I felt I was on the defensive the whole time and I didn't like it.
The only thing that kept me alive was the equipments and when they got rid of them I got crushed.

Edit: I was thinking of going bigger and hexproof, maybe Sigarda or Thrun? I currently have nothing to GSZ that's bigger than KoTr.

IMO Equipment decks tend to go to time for me a lot more often. They have the chance to have outs via gaining health and things without putting you in a winning position; hoping for that topdeck. I've gone to more aggressive decks in order to make games more win-big-or-go-home kinda deals. I found, FWIW, that Revoker does the same kinda thing. Unsure how to solve that dilemma. I think it's best solved with Flyers or other evasive dudes so that when you equip you tend to connect and thus end the game.

That said, grindy midrange decks (which are my forte) will drain you since you're often playing to outs and topdecks that still take more turns to put you into the winning position than a combo deck takes for a whole game. Yesterday, for instance, I had my second TNN coming up, but not enough to cast; so I laid down something to hold off the opponent so I could get to the next turn, lay TNN #2 and begin swinging with the first one while walling off his dudes. That's a gameplan I can't execute for a turn, takes 4-5 turns to get there and will require re-evaluation upon changes. It's just the way midrange is.

This is why more aggressive decks have become my thang of late; as the Delvers, Goyfs, etc tend to make-or-break earlier in the game, leading to a lot less drawn out games; thus less draining, more chance to scout, etc..

My only advice on this front would be have a Scryb for equips to fly over, a Sigarda to end the game against things like Jund, and maybe add ramp dude #5 or #6 to speed you up, and thus bring you to winning/losing states faster. If you're using library, you could swap to Courser in the short run to reduce number of evaluations you have to make; reduce the number of neat things to fetch with KotR/GSZ and simplify the deck so you have a more deterministic losing/winning state so you know when to concede.

Conceding bad games is a big deal with midrange when you go against Miracles, Midrange anything, or Lands.

Cpt-Qc

03-09-2016, 01:31 PM

IMO Equipment decks tend to go to time for me a lot more often. They have the chance to have outs via gaining health and things without putting you in a winning position; hoping for that topdeck. I've gone to more aggressive decks in order to make games more win-big-or-go-home kinda deals. I found, FWIW, that Revoker does the same kinda thing. Unsure how to solve that dilemma. I think it's best solved with Flyers or other evasive dudes so that when you equip you tend to connect and thus end the game.

That said, grindy midrange decks (which are my forte) will drain you since you're often playing to outs and topdecks that still take more turns to put you into the winning position than a combo deck takes for a whole game. Yesterday, for instance, I had my second TNN coming up, but not enough to cast; so I laid down something to hold off the opponent so I could get to the next turn, lay TNN #2 and begin swinging with the first one while walling off his dudes. That's a gameplan I can't execute for a turn, takes 4-5 turns to get there and will require re-evaluation upon changes. It's just the way midrange is.

This is why more aggressive decks have become my thang of late; as the Delvers, Goyfs, etc tend to make-or-break earlier in the game, leading to a lot less drawn out games; thus less draining, more chance to scout, etc..

My only advice on this front would be have a Scryb for equips to fly over, a Sigarda to end the game against things like Jund, and maybe add ramp dude #5 or #6 to speed you up, and thus bring you to winning/losing states faster. If you're using library, you could swap to Courser in the short run to reduce number of evaluations you have to make; reduce the number of neat things to fetch with KotR/GSZ and simplify the deck so you have a more deterministic losing/winning state so you know when to concede.

Conceding bad games is a big deal with midrange when you go against Miracles, Midrange anything, or Lands.

Yeah, I should have conceded the first game against loam when he had the full engine going but I'm not used to doing so as with combo there's always that topdeck chance that can win you the game.

In both games against pfire the opponent got fire + grove before I could grow an ooze. I thought it was my best chance but once he had grove + another red source I was pretty much locked out although but game dragged on. At one point I got to 6 mana with GSZ in hand and over 20 life so I was pondering my outs, which is why I would have liked Sigarda. just getting her out I could have raced in 3 turns.

Also I already have scryb and it is awesome. It won me a game against DnT with 2 deathrites on board and no black mana (mana + drain + heal each turn). In the pfire matchups tho I sided it out since it's just too easy to kill with pfire.

Cpt-Qc

03-09-2016, 02:14 PM

Scavenging Ooze/Deathrite can work against P-Fire like Stuhl mentioned, but are tricky since they also die to P-Fire.

Surgical Extraction is great against P-Fire, and is pretty effective against some other combo decks, especially if you're also playing Thoughtseize in the side.

Rest in Peace is another option that's quite strong vs. a number of decks.

Loam + Wasteland can also do work against P-Fire decks which can only initiate the combo themselves with Grove of the Burnwillows.

Wait, so you would bring in Thoughtseize against a fair deck? I do have 3 in my side but I usually bring them in against combo, not against grindy matchups.

tescrin

03-09-2016, 03:06 PM

Wait, so you would bring in Thoughtseize against a fair deck? I do have 3 in my side but I usually bring them in against combo, not against grindy matchups.

I'd feel odd about that myself, I tend to side out my discard if it's in the main because they're dead topdecks. However, they do act like removal buffers so you can "answer" more things. IMO depends on the fair deck. You'll probably put them in against Delver because going long is unlikely, one of you will gain an advantage; so TSeize may not be a bad thing. Against Jund, Shardless, Miracles, or similar; it's bad. It's not terrible for getting an equip out of a SFM deck's hand, but I think that if you're going to do that, you want Cabal Therapy since you can do it early and it's fine in the grave. I think any more than 2 discard against a fair deck when you're not running Bob + Lily, you have an issue. This is part of why it's fine for Jund, DGA, and similar.

Seraphix

03-09-2016, 03:34 PM

Wait, so you would bring in Thoughtseize against a fair deck? I do have 3 in my side but I usually bring them in against combo, not against grindy matchups.

No, I'm saying Surgical is good in conjunction with Thoughtseize against most combo decks. Being able to take an Infernal Tutor or Show & Tell from their hand and pro-actively Surgical it is quite strong.

Without discard to enable it, Surgical becomes a lot narrower against combo (since if they have cast their thing and it went to the graveyard you are probably in bad shape), and basically just fulfills a dedicated graveyard hate role for the likes of Dredge, Reanimator, and Punishing Fire/Loam decks.

Cpt-Qc

03-09-2016, 08:02 PM

No, I'm saying Surgical is good in conjunction with Thoughtseize against most combo decks. Being able to take an Infernal Tutor or Show & Tell from their hand and pro-actively Surgical it is quite strong.

Without discard to enable it, Surgical becomes a lot narrower against combo (since if they have cast their thing and it went to the graveyard you are probably in bad shape), and basically just fulfills a dedicated graveyard hate role for the likes of Dredge, Reanimator, and Punishing Fire/Loam decks.

Ah, that makes more sense. Yeah, I didn't include Surgical in my 75 before but I do now. I will know the feeling of surgicaling a pfire someday and it will be bliss I am sure of it.

That and it makes a great combo with discard against combo as you said.

sanderanders

03-17-2016, 08:19 AM

Maverick was a popular deck a couple of years ago. I don't have enough knowledge of the metagame of Legacy to figure out why it's popularity has declined to a niche deck. Because it is a toolbox deck wich supposed to have awnsers for most of the other strategies, which ones are to hard to awnser?

Can anyone enlighten me please?

Echelon

03-17-2016, 08:31 AM

Tokugawa

03-17-2016, 08:39 AM

sanderanders

03-17-2016, 08:49 AM

Terminus get printed.

Miracles is not the worst match up, is it?

Other decks got stronger or evolved. Maverick, suffering from Goblins syndrome, didn't.

I think with Punishing Maverick, Dark Maverick or the Stage/Depths combo that is not really true, is it? those 3 are strongers/evolved versions...

Anyone a good explaination? :tongue:

Echelon

03-17-2016, 09:03 AM

I think with Punishing Maverick, Dark Maverick or the Stage/Depths combo that is not really true, is it? those 3 are strongers/evolved versions...

Anyone a good explaination? :tongue:

Well... Punishing Maverick is just a worse Jund, Dark Maverick is a worse Rock/Nic Fit and Stage/Depths doesn't do that quite as well as other decks do so, you know...

Tokugawa

03-17-2016, 09:17 AM

Other decks got stronger or evolved. Maverick, suffering from Goblins syndrome, didn't.

The situations are quite different. Goblin could hardly receive 1 "playable" card per 5~8 sets. While every good new printed green creature card, may be a potential buff to a 4Zenith deck.

IMO, the primary flaw of Maverick's playing strategy is: Being a Fair deck. Legacy of today, is very very unfriendly to fair decks.

Cambriel

03-17-2016, 09:25 AM

The field kinda diversified. Decks that were formerly good match ups got new additions at a faster rate than Maverick, and bad match ups became more common (like Elves). That being said, I think Maverick is poised for a bit of a resurgence. It never stopped being a good deck. It just isn't blue, and in legacy that hurts.

Echelon

03-17-2016, 09:28 AM

The field kinda diversified. Decks that were formerly good match ups got new additions at a faster rate than Maverick, and bad match ups became more common (like Elves).

And that, children, is Goblins syndrome.

Fatal

03-17-2016, 10:24 AM

sanderanders

03-17-2016, 03:12 PM

Well... Punishing Maverick is just a worse Jund, Dark Maverick is a worse Rock/Nic Fit and Stage/Depths doesn't do that quite as well as other decks do so, you know...

I have to disagree. Maybe you could underbuild. I just think Maverick deserves more play and with addition of some of the new kids on the block it can handle well in big events....

Strassbaw

03-17-2016, 04:33 PM

I have to disagree. Maybe you could underbuild. I just think Maverick deserves more play and with addition of some of the new kids on the block it can handle well in big events....

I have been playing Punishing Maverick for a long time and I think now is a great time to dust off the deck.

Here is my list. I need 1 more card to complete the sideboard.

--(etutor) SFM punishing maverick--

21 Creatures:

Mother of runes 4
Knight of the reliquary 4
Deathrite shaman 3
Stoneforge mystic 3
Quasali pridemage 2
Gaddock teeg 1
Scavenging ooze 1
Noble hiarch 1
Birds of paradise 1
Dryad arbor 1

15
Non-Creature spells:

Green Sun's Zenith 4
Swords to plowshares 4
Punishing fire 3
Umezawas jitte 1
Batterskull 1
Sword of fire and ice 1
Life from the Loam 1

Lands 24

Forest 1
Plateau 1
Savanna 2
Taiga 2
Bayou 1
Grove of the burnwillows 3
Horizon canopy 1
Wasteland 3
Karakas 1
Wooded foothills 3
Windswept Heath 4
Thespian stage 1
Dark depths 1

E-turor board:

Enlightened tutor 2
Pithing needle 1
Phyrexian revoker 1
Tormods Crypt 1
Engineered plague 1
Etherswon canonist 1
Reclamation sage 1
Bajaku bog 1
Oblivion ring 1
Surgical extraction 1
Krosen grip 1
Choke 1
Gaddock teeg 1
Blank 1 (used to be null Rod, but with SFM it doesn't seem to fit so well)

The cards I have considered for sideboard are:

Pyroblast
Toxic deluge
Zealous persecution
Null rod (even with SFM package)
Another Krosen grip
Armegedon
Fiery Justice
Elspeth, knight errant

Please let me know if you have any ideas for the current meta. I am most likely going to play a singleton pyroblast or deluge.

Cambriel

03-17-2016, 05:00 PM

Just fair decks gets little unfair cards like TNN, Young Pyromancer or Shardless Agent while other decks like control get's tools to break the Gaddock lock - read Council's Judgement.
Meta shifted a lot, it's important to keep going and assemble changes in deck. Maverick still have decent chance against decks like Eldrazi, all Tempo decks (BUG/RUG) some Blade decks etc.

True-Name Nemesis and Council's Judgment (which felt like it was printed explicitly to fix the mistake of TNN) are the two big offenders IMO. Maverick is fundamentally a Mother of Runes deck, and suddenly midrange blue had a creature that could brick wall us when we don't have a Mom, or swing past us when we do. The race changed dramatically. Then, along comes Council's Judgment and suddenly we can't perfectly protect our array of hatebears anymore. It wasn't just Terminus, we can stop that with Teeg. Wizards has systematically printed cards for other deck types that have diminished the power of protection from a color. Eldrazi are just the most recent in a long line.

tescrin

03-17-2016, 05:24 PM

I have been playing Punishing Maverick for a long time and I think now is a great time to dust off the deck.

Here is my list. I need 1 more card to complete the sideboard.

--(etutor) SFM punishing maverick--

Grove of the burnwillows 3
Wasteland 3
Thespian stage 1

Honestly you can run up to about 3 Warping Wail right now; which is good in an equip deck, good against combo (and attacks from a different angle) and is generally good enough to slot next to plow (especially since even though it's 2-drop removal it gets through Mom.)

ironclad8690

03-17-2016, 10:50 PM

I held on to Maverick for longer than most, and the deck is still very near and dear to my heart.

This deck was great back when RUG, UW Blade, Merfolk, and Reanimator were everywhere (2012). You could even beat Miracles by tuning your sideboard or sticking a teeg.

But then, Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay were printed. DRS pre-emptively keeps Knight small, and Knight is the beef that we need to beat other midrange decks. DRS also really hurts Maverick's mana denial plan. Wastelanding someone with a DRS feels so bad.

This was when the deck stopped being tier 1, and after this TNN was printed. Though beatable, it changed the dynamics of certain matchups. The worst part: people all started playing -1/-1 effects in their sideboards. It also doesn't help that Mother of Runes just keeps getting worse (colorless creatures more common, warping wail etc)

I tried punishing maverick too, but for a deck to succeed in the current legacy arena you have to have game against both fair decks and combo decks. This is why the thalia GW builds have had the most success.

Aggro loam really is doing what punishing maverick used to do but in a way that is better suited to the current legacy meta. It has the card advantage to keep up with miracles/shardless and the mana denial plan is more repeatable and happens more frequently.

Death and Taxes arguably just does hatebears better, and doesn't suffer from nonbos like teeg GSZ or Thalia GSZ. Vial makes a big difference vs tempo and miracles, back in the GW days we had Cavern of Souls, but I wouldn't recommend it now.

tldr: Maverick was a metagame deck created for meta of 2010/11. If it ever becomes tier 1 again, it will likely need to have some insane printings in GW.

Koby

03-18-2016, 01:28 AM

tldr: Maverick was a metagame deck created for meta of 2010/11. If it ever becomes tier 1 again, it will likely need to have some insane printings in GW.

Sadly, the new Sigarda is short of turning the tide back to GW. Oh well...

calcymon

03-19-2016, 08:38 AM

tldr: Maverick was a metagame deck created for meta of 2010/11. If it ever becomes tier 1 again, it will likely need to have some insane printings in GW.

100% agree :cry:

Stevestamopz

03-19-2016, 08:49 AM

Solid post Ironclad.

I sympathise, Goblins too have gone the same way as Maverick thanks to Decay, DRS and TNN.

Boring fucking cards... :mad:

Cambriel

03-19-2016, 10:12 AM

tldr: Maverick was a metagame deck created for meta of 2010/11. If it ever becomes tier 1 again, it will likely need to have some insane printings in GW.

It still does well in metagames full of cantrip decks. I love Maverick, built the whole thing in foil and still have it, but I rarely bring it to events because I hate getting blown out by turn 1 combo or elves. Storm? Delver? Even Miracles? Sure, whatevs.

What Maverick really needs is a powerful turn 1 play. You can play fair in Legacy, but you've got to hit 2 mana to drop a Thalia or some other bear so you can slow things down. Our best option right now is DRS, and while he's a priority target vs. our good matchups, the bad matchups just ignore him completely and combo off. Maverick needs a 1 drop that threatens to tax as aggressively as Delver threatens life totals. It doesn't need to be especially resilient or long lasting, but we need something to throw off the combo decks long enough to stick our bears and start walling off strategic options.

Megadeus

03-19-2016, 10:26 AM

Dryad Militant kind of helps. Makes it a little tougher for something like storm to win turn 1. Alternatively just like a green spirit guide to power out a turn 1 hate bear works

Cambriel

03-19-2016, 10:55 AM

Dryad Militant kind of helps. Makes it a little tougher for something like storm to win turn 1. Alternatively just like a green spirit guide to power out a turn 1 hate bear works

I've tried Dryad Militant, and it just never did enough. I honestly liked Judge's Familiar more, in terms of delaying to the midgame. They both suck later on though. You can go the spirit guide route and try to rush, but it's really off plan for the deck. Might as well just play Aggro Loam and make value off discarding lands with Mox Diamond.

Something like an extremely narrow sphere effect at 1cmc would be enough to give Maverick some gas. A 1 mana tax on instants only would kick an awful lot of decks in the nuts. Run it out turn 1 and you can't Plow it, follow it turn 2 with a Mom and they're forced to spend their entire turn killing one or the other (probably Mom). Hurts Brainstorm and countermagic but not Top or Ponder, delays Storm by costing them a card from Lotus petal, etc. Nothing breaks, but it ends up being something people have to respect.

Course I'm not a game designer, so there's bound to be terrible unintended consequences I haven't thought about. Ah well, back to playing blue.

Fatal

03-19-2016, 03:37 PM

1 CMC sphere never happens, even if, it would be very fast banned :/ also in Vintage.

Zombie

03-19-2016, 04:16 PM

Solid post Ironclad.

I sympathise, Goblins too have gone the same way as Maverick thanks to Decay, DRS and TNN.

Boring fucking cards... :mad:

But DRS and Decay gave me a deck to play ;_;

TNN should just burn.

Koby

03-19-2016, 10:53 PM

Are you really have issues with TNN? I always seem to race it just fine, unless I'm severely behind from heavy removal draws. Between SoFI and Mom, we can swing past TNN easily.

Strassbaw

03-21-2016, 10:13 AM

Honestly you can run up to about 3 Warping Wail right now; which is good in an equip deck, good against combo (and attacks from a different angle) and is generally good enough to slot next to plow (especially since even though it's 2-drop removal it gets through Mom.)

Got top 16 at Eternal Extravaganza satellite event with Punishing Dark Maverick. I went with 2 Rebs in the board and left Krosen grip out because Reb seemed better. I could have won the two matches I lost. Do not give up hope. Maverick is pretty well positioned in the nerds mind. :]

Mapson

03-21-2016, 11:13 PM

I played the deck for the first time tonight at a local legacy event. We only got 8 people so sadly only three rounds.

I went 2-1

Rd 1 - Grixis Delver: 1-2. Saw no removal in games 2 and 3. Also all my action was forced or dazed, which I was under the assumption would be boarded out.
Rd 2 - Lands: 2-0 He misplayed g1 and overlooked my karakas, I was then able to slowly lock him out with a drs, knight, and scavenging ooze. In g2 he had a pretty all in hand and I saw scooze before he saw loam.
Rd 3 - Reanimator 2-0 Deathrite is good. Scavenging ooze is good for when they needle your deathrite

List felt solid but 3 rounds doesn't mean much. I would have enjoyed a maze of ith.

Land (22)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
Artifact (2)
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Creature (25)
1x Courser of Kruphix
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Mother of Runes
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Instant (7)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard (15)
1x Armageddon
1x Choke
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
3x Thoughtseize
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
2x Zealous Persecution

NEELEY

03-23-2016, 07:33 AM

Got 9th place at SCG Indy classic with my Maverick list. Got left out on tie breakers😞. Here's the list

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=99973

Jon

03-23-2016, 08:50 AM

Thank you for not playing the dumpster stage/Depths version. Good job with a real Maverick deck.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

klaus

03-23-2016, 09:11 AM

@NEELEY care to post a micro tournament report? :smile:

NEELEY

03-23-2016, 09:17 AM

@NEELEY care to post a micro tournament report? :smile:

Yea I can write up something after work today.

NEELEY

03-24-2016, 12:51 AM

Mini tournament report from SCG Indy Classic on March 20th 2016.

First off congrats to Jj Garlock for a second place finish. My traveling partner and good friend. I have been testing rock/junk variants on mtgo for the last few month since my 10th place finish with this deck here: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=91032. I figured out with miracles playing moat and eldrazi being popular lingering soul was well positioned. I sent Jj the list I did well with and we made a couple tweaks and he planned to play it since he owned goyfs in paper and I don't :(

We left about 530 am and grabbed a quick breakfast. Got to indy about 9 am, hurried to get our deck registration done. I was playing my old faithful, Maverick. Here's the list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=99973.

This was an 8 round event. Record 6-1-1

Round 1 vs Mud 2-0

Not much to talk about in this match, I believe combination of pridemage and wasteland easily win game 1. I love having 2 in the main deck :)
Game 2 I remember he played a turn 3 sundering titan, but fortunately for me he only got a bayou. I was able to get a pridmage out off a dryad arbor and horizon canopy?? I think? He ran out of gas and I beat with huge knights after that.

in: 1 pridmage, 2 decay, 1 banishing light
out: 4 mother of runes

Round 2 Esper 1-0-1

Game 1 was a very long game. Ending life totals were 2-2 before I killed him. He stopped me very early on in the game with a True Name. Eventually I was able to get a Mom/Sword of F&I to win.

Game 2 we didn't have a lot of time left. He was able to get a batterskull early and life totals ended him at 32 and me at 2 before we went to turns, it ended in a draw. I don't remember details but my opponent made mistakes and probably could of won that game.

I don't remember how I sideboarded in these games, esper and deathblade seem to be the hardest for me to sideboard and can't remember what all I brought in/took out.

Round 3 Storm 1-2 Caleb S

Obviously I know Caleb is on storm and he is a very good player.

Game 1 I keep a thalia, teeg hand we quickly go to game 2.

Game 2 He kills me with Tendrils.

Game 3 I have another good hand and get Thalia and Etherworn in play, he bounces Thalia end of turn decays my Canonist and make a bunch of goblins, I have two turns to draw a zealous p, I don't. This is the second time I've lost to him and the last was with my rock deck in Columbus.

in: 4 thoughtseize, 1 teeg, 2 canonist, 2 zealous p
out: 4 swords to plowshare, 1 jitte, 2 pridemage, 1 garruk, 1 mom

Round 4 Infect 2-1 Ross Merriam

Game 1 Life totals show high, I believe I get killed quick. I remember swords to plowshare was countered by vines.

Game 2 Win but don't remember the specifics.

Game 3 I mulligan but I accidently drew 7 cards, so I have to either let him take a card from my hand or mulligan to 5. I had 6 land and a swords to plowshare, I chose to got 2 5. I think this hand was pretty good with a Thalia and a thoughtseize. I don't remember any specifics except I think I assemble a jitte and won this game with him being very low on lands.

in: 2 canonist, 4 thoughtseize, 2 zealous, 2 decay.
out: 1 teeg, 2 knight, 1 ooze, 1 pridemage, 1 sword of light and shadow, 4 mom

Round 5 Shardless BUG 2-1

Game 1 a early deathrite into wasteland, thalia quickly ends. using deathrite to deny his.

Game 2 he gets a great start and gets a couple shardless agents into ancestral visions. I cant keep up.

Game 3 I get a great start with a turn 3 Garruk and I make 1 token and then chose the next turn to kill his strix and transform Garruk, I shouldn't of done this because I knew he had abrubt decay in hand. He kills Garruk with decay and I start chipping away at his life total. I don't know how I won this game really he drew a lot of cards and we ended up in a top deck war and I drew more creatures. life totals ended at 7-1 before killing him.

not sure how I sideboarded, I may have brought the choke's in game 2 and boarded them back out, I know I brought both decay in and removed 1 or 2 pridemages.

Round 6 Eldrazi 2-0

Game 1 he doesn't have an aggressive start. I pump out creatures and win.

Game 2 Another slow start. This game I have 2 huge knights out and used all my wastlands. He plays crucible of worlds the turn before I kill him. I think knights are 10's or 11's.

in: banishing light, 2 decay, 1 pridemage.
out: 4 moms

Round 7 Junk/Rock 2-1

Game 1 I lose trying to go after his lands and he beats me down with a goyf.

Game 2 I play 2 early knights, he plays a rest in peace in his deathrite/gofy deck, I was like okay? I wasteland him to 1 land and beat him down with 2 2/2 knights, he concedes shortly after.

Game 3 I get a light and shadow on my stoneforge and wasteland him to 1 basic again. Quick game before he concedes.

in: 2 decay

out: teeg, 3 thalia
in: 1 pridemage, 1 banishing light, 2 decay

Round 8 BUG Delver 1-1-1 Jim Davis

I asked Jim if he wanted to draw and he said no, out tie breakers weren't good enough to get us in, and he was right.

Game 1 I lose to delver and deathrite and never really got anything going. I used a fetched dryad arbor to kill a confidant but wasn't enough. It was a weird and long game 1, I played 2 of my equips and tried equip multiple time but stifle, disfigure, abrupt decay stopped me from getting it going.

Game 2 Jim mulls to 4 and still almost kill me before I start to take over the board.

Game 3 We only have about 10 min left and we try to play quickly. We are now playing for top 8 and starting to get a bit of a crowd. I remember the ending turns where he had a delver and deathrite. I had a good board with mother, knight, deathrite, 2 or 3 vampire tokens from a flipped Garruk. But couldn't quite finish him off in turns, I would of needed a turn 6 to kill him.

Obviously neither of us would concede to the other because there was a slim chance we could still make it in. I ended in 9th and Jim in 10th, sucks to miss out of the top 8 on tie breakers. Especially because I only play legacy and go to the ohio and Indiana events. It doesn't give me a lot of chances as the grinders. I love Maverick and think it is a great deck, I enjoy playing it and it usually puts me into top 32 or better at the SCG events. Sorry for the stuff I missed or the information I gave could be wrong since I didn't take notes. I got to watch my buddy do well and it made the top 8 miss a little better.