[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[NEELEY]

Thanks Neely, for your report. This helps me desiding which cards my sideboard could contain. How do you feel abaut the DD/TS combo? Do you want to keep a fair deck, or do you think is just isn't good enough?

I think the dd/ts combo can be good, mainly vs shardless bug, but it isn't needed. It makes the tempo style decks like delver worst. I have come to notice it is only REALLY good when the opponent is not expecting it. You don't play the same type of game as lands to make it effective. I would play my same list tomorrow if I chose to play maverick.

[NEELEY]

Anybody play a non punishing red list? Or is it simply better with punishing fire?

If you want to play a punishing fire list, I would suggest aggro loam. If you want to play Maverick here is a list to reference
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=99973

[Rascalyote]

This is the list I've been doing alright with locally, the main deck is a few cards off the above list.

Lands- 23 (counting arbor)

4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp (testing - and it's pretty good tbh)
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor

Non Dude Spells- 14

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Dudes- 23

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary


The SB changes like, every time I sneeze and I sometime's just throw in cards for fun (Apostle's Blessing and Marrow Shards were a blast to play) but here's what I have atm-

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
1 Armageddon (Haven't played this or choke in a while, but I resolved this under thalia the other day which is a fun nonbo combo)
1 Choke
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Pithing Needle

[NEELEY]

The only reason I haven't changed to the abrupt decays in the main deck is because our fair match up is okay and has most of the tools to deal with them. I think decays are fine but against combo I want to minimize dead cards that aren't creatures.

[Rascalyote]

Well I have them over your Garruk Relentless, Scryb Ranger and Sword of Light and Shadow which aren't too stellar against combo but are all also cool cards that I've played in the past. (My deck always feels too clunky with 3 equipment, but I guess you also have an extra dude)

On another note I think I might SB a bunch of new Sorin's when he comes out just to troll miracles.

[NEELEY]

Well I have them over your Garruk Relentless, Scryb Ranger and Sword of Light and Shadow which aren't too stellar against combo but are all also cool cards that I've played in the past. (My deck always feels too clunky with 3 equipment, but I guess you also have an extra dude)

On another note I think I might SB a bunch of new Sorin's when he comes out just to troll miracles.

The Garruk was a meta call to give me more game vs miracles/bug, usually is a second library. But scryb ranger is a great card and highly recommended.

[sanderanders]

Inspired by some great lists wich have done well over the past couple of years, i playtest Maverick since last summer and will bring this deck to some mayor events this year. I like to post my list of 75 here and hope to get some feedback here and there and maybe get a nice discussion going. I really believe Maverick is a viable choice of weapen, even in the current meta, love playing it.

Here we go:

Creatures:
4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hiërarch (or 1 and 4 DS?)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Courser of Kruphix (or 0 and 3 SFM or 1 Scryb Ranger?)
4 Knight of the Reliquary

Spells:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Sylvan Library (or 1 SL, 0 SoLaS and 2 Abrupt Decays?)
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands:
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacomb
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea’s Cradle (or Maze of Ith?)
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland

Sideboard:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
2 Choke (Still Good?)
1 Council's Judgement (?)
1 ???

Shoot! ;-)

[NEELEY]

[QUOTE=sanderanders;941187]Inspired by some great lists wich have done well over the past couple of years, i playtest Maverick since last summer and will bring this deck to some mayor events this year. I like to post my list of 75 here and hope to get some feedback here and there and maybe get a nice discussion going. I really believe Maverick is a viable choice of weapen, even in the current meta, love playing it.

I hate to say reference my list(you can find it above), but it has put me in at least a top 32 finish in every legacy classic I have used it. I have tried courser when I expect a lot of death and taxes(blocks well, gives u lands). Always use scryb ranger(blocks delver, awesome with kotr and mom). A second teeg in the board is fantastic against combo and miracles. Sword of light and shadow shines when you can get back pridemage or just other threats. I love the full set of thoughtseize, it's your best disruption vs combo.

[sanderanders]

I hate to say reference my list(you can find it above), but it has put me in at least a top 32 finish in every legacy classic I have used it. I have tried courser when I expect a lot of death and taxes(blocks well, gives u lands). Always use scryb ranger(blocks delver, awesome with kotr and mom). A second teeg in the board is fantastic against combo and miracles. Sword of light and shadow shines when you can get back pridemage or just other threats. I love the full set of thoughtseize, it's your best disruption vs combo.

Thanks Dan. I made some minor adjustments, i expect a slightly different metagame here in Europe. I really appreciatie your feedback though and especially your report with sideboarding explainations. Did you play against Eldrazi already with the deck?

[NEELEY]

Thanks Dan. I made some minor adjustments, i expect a slightly different metagame here in Europe. I really appreciatie your feedback though and especially your report with sideboarding explainations. Did you play against Eldrazi already with the deck?

Yes, I played vs eldrazi in the scg Indy classic once. He didn't have fast starts but with wasteland pridemage and kotr, it felt like a decent match up. Haven't been beat much either on mtgo.

[sanderanders]

Yes, I played vs eldrazi in the scg Indy classic once. He didn't have fast starts but with wasteland pridemage and kotr, it felt like a decent match up. Haven't been beat much either on mtgo.

I almost feel like playing 3 SFM's and putting the good old Batterskull in maindeck again...

[NEELEY]

I almost feel like playing 3 SFM's and putting the good old Batterskull in maindeck again...

If you expect eldrazi in your meta, I think batterskull would be great. My biggest worry is storm, I can have two bears out and it's not enough.

[Mapson]

Has anybody experimented with a copy of creakwood liege? I often find myself wanting to gsz for something to beat the board stall and sigarda or titania are just out of reach, and then I have to chump with mana dorks and they get that much further out of reach. My concern is he's vulnerable won't always have an immediate impact.

[sanderanders]

If you expect eldrazi in your meta, I think batterskull would be great. My biggest worry is storm, I can have two bears out and it's not enough.

Yeah, you can have Ethersworn, Gaddock, Thalia, i think it is the worst matchup...

[Megadeus]

Maybe try out non creature hate? Rule of law. Leyline. Natural order for Ruric Thar

[NEELEY]

Yeah, you can have Ethersworn, Gaddock, Thalia, i think it is the worst matchup...

After board they play disfigure, chain of vapor, abrupt decay. So usually only landing 2 threats/bears isn't enough. Seems like a thoughtseize or a active mom is needed as well.

[NEELEY]

Maybe try out non creature hate? Rule of law. Leyline. Natural order for Ruric Thar

It's just part of playing this strategy. We have no turn 1 disruption besides thoughtseize, if they are on the play they haves significant advantage and sometimes it's to late.

[sanderanders]

Ok, i have 61 cards in my deck now and the card on the buble is Maze of Ith. I like it because i can fetch it with KotR, it untaps KotR after attack, it helps defence by unblocking flyers en huge Eldrazi's...i just love the card.

Can anybody convince me that i should drop it and play a deck of 60?

[klaus]

Ok, i have 61 cards in my deck now and the card on the buble is Maze of Ith. I like it because i can fetch it with KotR, it untaps KotR after attack, it helps defence by unblocking flyers en huge Eldrazi's...i just love the card.

Can anybody convince me that i should drop it and play a deck of 60?

Without seeing your list, nobody can help you.

[sanderanders]

Without seeing your list, nobody can help you.

You are right ;-)

25 creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic

12 non-creature spells
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library

23 lands

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Choke
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
2 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution

I expect Grixis/UR Delver and Eldrazi to be the most present decks, so i put 2 Path to Exiles in the sideboard, i left Bojuka Bog and a Choke out for them.

I can leave out a Ethersworn Canonist tor a Containment Priest, not sure.

I also have doubt if i should play the Maze of Ith.

[sdematt]

You are right ;-)

25 creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic

12 non-creature spells
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library

23 lands

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Choke
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
2 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution

I expect Grixis/UR Delver and Eldrazi to be the most present decks, so i put 2 Path to Exiles in the sideboard, i left Bojuka Bog and a Choke out for them.

I can leave out a Ethersworn Canonist tor a Containment Priest, not sure.

I also have doubt if i should play the Maze of Ith.

Not sure I like Maze right now. Almost would rather play Ghost Quarter and combat Eldrazi.

[Megadeus]

Is the general consensus that cradle is basically necessary at this point? I haven't gotten to play with a cradle yet but it seems nuts, especially with rogues passage or something

[NEELEY]

You are right ;-)

25 creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic


12 non-creature spells
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library

23 lands

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Choke
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Krosan Grip
2 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution

I expect Grixis/UR Delver and Eldrazi to be the most present decks, so i put 2 Path to Exiles in the sideboard, i left Bojuka Bog and a Choke out for them.

I can leave out a Ethersworn Canonist tor a Containment Priest, not sure.

I also have doubt if i should play the Maze of Ith.

It looks like this is a 60 card list, in the maze spot I like a second library, Garruk or courser of kruphix

[NEELEY]

Is the general consensus that cradle is basically necessary at this point? I haven't gotten to play with a cradle yet but it seems nuts, especially with rogues passage or something

Cradle gives you some great turns. If you have a Thalia out and you play an equipment a lot of the time you will have enough mana out to cast the equipment, equip and attack. Also when you're playing against lands and they think they can lock you down with tabernacle, it negates the card. It's a must card for me😀

[NEELEY]

Cradle gives you some great turns. If you have a Thalia out and you play an equipment a lot of the time you will have enough mana out to cast the equipment, equip and attack. Also when you're playing against lands and they think they can lock you down with tabernacle, it negates the card. It's a must card for me😀

Also I have learned against lands not to waste your wastelands, save them to get damage through when they try to stop you with mazes.

[sanderanders]

It looks like this is a 60 card list, in the maze spot I like a second library, Garruk or courser of kruphix

thanks for the advice.

For my personale playstyle i think the Maze is a better match, because it does stuff no other card does in this deck and it is fetchable. It untaps attacking creatures with unblockable, flying or protection from colors or those who a just too big to handle for my blockers till i draw another Swords to Plowshares, but Maze also untaps my attacking creatures to save them if an oponents blocker flashes in or is being pumped up. Oh, did i mention the untap after damange trick with the Knight of the Reliquary? ;-) If it is a dead card i board it out the 2nd and 3rd match. I think i love Maze... ;-)

What i don't like about a second library is that it is a 2 of, not fetchable, so you cannot rely on it, you need to be lucky to draw it, but 2 in a hand is a dead card....so you have to be able to win without it either way.

Garruk just makes you more aggro, i think the deck it aggro enough like it is, with huge knights. But i see why it can be very good. 1 of so there can pass 10 games without him...

Courser doesn't work for me perosnaly, because it is a midgame card and by that time i don't need mana fixing and i like to keep the opponent in the dark about my hand. Card draw is nice though. I can see why you would play it.

[NEELEY]

thanks for the advice.

For my personale playstyle i think the Maze is a better match, because it does stuff no other card does in this deck and it is fetchable. It untaps attacking creatures with unblockable, flying or protection from colors or those who a just too big to handle for my blockers till i draw another Swords to Plowshares, but Maze also untaps my attacking creatures to save them if an oponents blocker flashes in or is being pumped up. Oh, did i mention the untap after damange trick with the Knight of the Reliquary? ;-) If it is a dead card i board it out the 2nd and 3rd match. I think i love Maze... ;-)

What i don't like about a second library is that it is a 2 of, not fetchable, so you cannot rely on it, you need to be lucky to draw it, but 2 in a hand is a dead card....so you have to be able to win without it either way.

Garruk just makes you more aggro, i think the deck it aggro enough like it is, with huge knights. But i see why it can be very good. 1 of so there can pass 10 games without him...

Courser doesn't work for me perosnaly, because it is a midgame card and by that time i don't need mana fixing and i like to keep the opponent in the dark about my hand. Card draw is nice though. I can see why you would play it.

I think depending on the meta game. I play courser in an environment where death and taxes, burn is popular. If miracles and bug are popular Garruk is good because it's a great threat that is hard for them to deal with.

[sanderanders]

I think depending on the meta game. I play courser in an environment where death and taxes, burn is popular. If miracles and bug are popular Garruk is good because it's a great threat that is hard for them to deal with.

Yes, i agree.

Now i need to figur out my sideboarding guide...any words of advice?

[Ryu]

How's it going guys. Local BUG Delver player here looking for some advice on a new deck. I really want to play KoTR and I don't know if I should play Aggro Loam or Maverick. Could you guys sell me on why I should play this over Loam? My play style fits BUG Delver to the T but I really want to have a second deck to use against my friends that isn't "tier 1".

[NEELEY]

http://imgur.com/8ezHzfk

4-1 with this in a league tonight. Should of been 5-0 but played bad vs. Zoo, oh well stuff happens :) . It has a small green sun package with only 2 gsz's. I main decked thoughtseize to help vs. combo and I wanted it to have the rock/maverick feel to it. Let me know what you guys think. My wins were against lands, miracles, show and tell and cloudpost.

[NEELEY]

Yes, i agree.

Now i need to figur out my sideboarding guide...any words of advice?

What matches are you unsure of?

[NEELEY]

How's it going guys. Local BUG Delver player here looking for some advice on a new deck. I really want to play KoTR and I don't know if I should play Aggro Loam or Maverick. Could you guys sell me on why I should play this over Loam? My play style fits BUG Delver to the T but I really want to have a second deck to use against my friends that isn't "tier 1".

I have both decks and have played with both in scg legacy classics. Aggro loam wins some games pretty easily but hasn't been very consistent to me. I seem to do a lot better when I'm playing maverick. I like both decks but I would say if you want a bit more consistency, maverick has been great and gives me good results, either deck though gets to play choke :) , which is great!

[sanderanders]

What matches are you unsure of?

Mostly Eldrazi. I put in 2 Path to Exiles in my sideboard, but now i think about it, with the Chalice of the Void in the Eldrazi decks, 2 Dismembers is maybe the better choice as Eldrazi-hate, isn't it?

In lesser form i also think Combo decks or any deck with True Name Nemesis, or Elves are bad match ups for me.

Maybe decks like Dredge and Storm, and offcourse Miracles (but who isn't?)

I mostly lack a bit more experience of wich cards of my sideboard need to go in versus a certain matchup.

[BlackNight]

Hi all,

i need some help. Currently i play Maverick but in my current meta i see so much TA and D&T deck. Can i have some help for changing my list for adapt her on my meta?

Creatures

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Instants and Sorceries

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantments

1 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers

1 Garruk Relentless

Artifacts

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands

1 Bayou
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats

SB

2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Containment Priest
2 Choke
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thoughtseize

Thx all and my apologies for my terrible english :frown:

[Megadeus]

Better utility 1 drop green sun target, Granger Guildmage or Thornscape apprentice?

[btm10]

That's pretty meta dependent, right? Do you expect to see more Mentors/Pyromancers/Dark Confidants/Elves/D&T or more Reanimator/Sneak and Show/Dark Depths/Tarmogoyfs/Knights?

[BlackNight]

Better utility 1 drop green sun target, Granger Guildmage or Thornscape apprentice?

all good but i think i need to insert some red sources for abilities of granger and thornscape


That's pretty meta dependent, right? Do you expect to see more Mentors/Pyromancers/Dark Confidants/Elves/D&T or more Reanimator/Sneak and Show/Dark Depths/Tarmogoyfs/Knights?

I think

Mentors ----> low
Pyro-----> low
confidat-----> some
elves----> some
d&t-----> so much
reanimator----> several
s&s-----> i dont think
DD-----> low
tarmo----> so much
knight----> low

[Megadeus]

all good but i think i need to insert some red sources for abilities of granger and thornscape



I think

Mentors ----> low
Pyro-----> low
confidat-----> some
elves----> some
d&t-----> so much
reanimator----> several
s&s-----> i dont think
DD-----> low
tarmo----> so much
knight----> low
I'm splashing red for a few terrible things already like a Huntmaster. I do like the thought of shoring up Reaniderp and DD matchs though.

[NEELEY]

5-0 in a league(the only one I used maverick in) and a 9th place finish a few weeks ago in the classic. What else do I need to do to convince myself to play it this weekend in the scg Classic?

http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/612393

[powerhawk]

5-0 in a league(the only one I used maverick in) and a 9th place finish a few weeks ago in the classic. What else do I need to do to convince myself to play it this weekend in the scg Classic?

http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/612393

What do you run banishing light for? Why not pithing needle?

[NEELEY]

What do you run banishing light for? Why not pithing needle?

I run banishing light as the primary show and tell answer but bring it in when they don't have great removal for it like eldrazi.

[owerbart]

I run banishing light as the primary show and tell answer but bring it in when they don't have great removal for it like eldrazi.

Hey Neeley what do you think of Armageddon?

Question extends to everybody in this thread as well :)

[NEELEY]

Hey Neeley what do you think of Armageddon?

Question extends to everybody in this thread as well :)

I ran a 1 of Armageddon for a long time in the sideboard mostly for miracles. At tournaments I seemed to only play miracles only 1 time in 7 or 8 rounds. So I switched to a second choke, as a more catch all card. I've recently thought about adding it back for matches like esper and cloudpost I've been seeing a lot on mtgo.

[BlackNight]

NEELEY with the SB you played at last SCG you see problems vs reanimator decks?

[NEELEY]

NEELEY with the SB you played at last SCG you see problems vs reanimator decks?

i think the match up is fine we play deathrite and ooze to negate graveyards. After board we get a full set of thoughtseize. Look, we are choosing to play a G/W/b deck and can't really interact until turn 2 and sometimes turn 3 and I'm fine with that, we are going to lose to storm and other combo decks that are just to fast with their good hands. I think adding containment priest is a fine move, but I expect more storm than reanimator and that's why I choose to play a "weaker graveyard sb".

[BlackNight]

but I expect more storm than reanimator and that's why I choose to play a "weaker graveyard sb".

i understand, i think is a good choice in a meta without tons of dredge and reanimator decks.

Guys i tested vs eldrazi and this deck can be a real problem :frown::frown::frown:


Can anyone suggest me some silver bullet vs this MU?

[Megadeus]

From what I've seen they struggle with batterskull. Adding another stone forge and playing batterskull main probably would help

[BlackNight]

From what I've seen they struggle with batterskull. Adding another stone forge and playing batterskull main probably would help

uhm, i think is true :smile:

[Megadeus]

uhm, i think is true :smile:

I mean if you're looking for a green sun silver bullet it's either goyf or Glissa. First Strike, Deathtouch is tough to attack through

[NEELEY]

I also think adding another stoneforge and batterskull will improve the eldrazi match. I chose to play aggro loam at the last second for the classic in Columbus and knight is the best threat vs them. I beat eldrazi to lock up a top 8 finish because of knight.

[Koby]

I also think adding another stoneforge and batterskull will improve the eldrazi match. I chose to play aggro loam at the last second for the classic in Columbus and knight is the best threat vs them. I beat eldrazi to lock up a top 8 finish because of knight.

Seconded. If we need to go more mid-range than Stoneblade tactics are pretty good. It just really sucks vs Blue tempo :\

[BlackNight]

I also think adding another stoneforge and batterskull will improve the eldrazi match. I chose to play aggro loam at the last second for the classic in Columbus and knight is the best threat vs them. I beat eldrazi to lock up a top 8 finish because of knight.

NEELEY usually i use your list for my local tournaments. What can i cut for add 1 stoneforge and 1 batterskull? In my local meta now i see some delver decks, some D&t, eldrazi and some combo (show, tendrils, elves). I dont see so much control decks.

[Megadeus]

Alternatively the tap ability of Thornscape apprentice buys time against them without triggering Haste rapist eldrazi

[NEELEY]

NEELEY usually i use your list for my local tournaments. What can i cut for add 1 stoneforge and 1 batterskull? In my local meta now i see some delver decks, some D&t, eldrazi and some combo (show, tendrils, elves). I dont see so much control decks.

Light and shadow and pridemage? That's where I would start and see how it works.

[Barook]

I also think adding another stoneforge and batterskull will improve the eldrazi match. I chose to play aggro loam at the last second for the classic in Columbus and knight is the best threat vs them. I beat eldrazi to lock up a top 8 finish because of knight.
Knights are a real problem for Eldrazi since they're huge roadblacks and continously attack the mana.

Stoneforge? That only works against the Colorless builds. Otherwise, I jam down a Displacer and laugh at your misery.

[NEELEY]

Knights are a real problem for Eldrazi since they're huge roadblacks and continously attack the mana.

Stoneforge? That only works against the Colorless builds. Otherwise, I jam down a Displacer and laugh at your misery.

Ya I have only played against the colorless version, that's the list that seems to put up the better finishes

[tescrin]

Ya I have only played against the colorless version, that's the list that seems to put up the better finishes

OHHHHHHHHHH BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN

Barook Gettin' Served!

[Barook]

OHHHHHHHHHH BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN

Barook Gettin' Served!
Considering my latest list is 23-2 in competitive matches (aka 92% wins) so far and took down the April Legacy Challenge on MTGO, I think I can live with people not preparing for it. :tongue:

[tescrin]

Considering my latest list is 23-2 in competitive matches (aka 92% wins) so far and took down the April Legacy Challenge on MTGO, I think I can live with people not preparing for it. :tongue:

http://cdn.instructables.com/F8B/AC0G/HR3EQ4OB/F8BAC0GHR3EQ4OB.MEDIUM.jpg

[NEELEY]

Considering my latest list is 23-2 in competitive matches (aka 92% wins) so far and took down the April Legacy Challenge on MTGO, I think I can live with people not preparing for it. :tongue:

Congrats! Sorry if it sounded like I was putting you down, I wasn't, I was just stating that I haven't played against that version. I got crushed in the challenge by belcher and nic fit😜

[Rascalyote]

@Neely

Late response I know (like 3 pages ago... lol) but I was just reading your tournament report and saw you boarded out Pridemages against storm.

Personally I like the cat more than the SFM package against them because:

-SFM is very slow in that matchup, and hitting with an equipment doesn't do a lot (it's not bad, but I don't feel it's worth the 'risk')
-Qasali beats pretty hard, it even "hastes" for 1 a lot of the time which is relevant for Ad Naus
-Most importantly some games you have Thalia and they start playing LED or petal and passing, you can then play pridemage, hit them for an extra 1 damage with Thalia, then blow up their mana. It also destroys dread of night if they are playing it.
-I didn't count but I think this leaves room for your 4th mother which is pretty nice

I also like Pridemage against infect because it has game against 2/3's of their infect threats, and blows up Sylvan Library.

[NEELEY]

@Neely

Late response I know (like 3 pages ago... lol) but I was just reading your tournament report and saw you boarded out Pridemages against storm.

Personally I like the cat more than the SFM package against them because:

-SFM is very slow in that matchup, and hitting with an equipment doesn't do a lot (it's not bad, but I don't feel it's worth the 'risk')
-Qasali beats pretty hard, it even "hastes" for 1 a lot of the time which is relevant for Ad Naus
-Most importantly some games you have Thalia and they start playing LED or petal and passing, you can then play pridemage, hit them for an extra 1 damage with Thalia, then blow up their mana. It also destroys dread of night if they are playing it.
-I didn't count but I think this leaves room for your 4th mother which is pretty nice

I also like Pridemage against infect because it has game against 2/3's of their infect threats, and blows up Sylvan Library.

I agree with you on your suggestions, I will try it out and see how it goes.

[Ronald Deuce]

@Neely

Late response I know (like 3 pages ago... lol) but I was just reading your tournament report and saw you boarded out Pridemages against storm.

Personally I like the cat more than the SFM package against them because:

-SFM is very slow in that matchup, and hitting with an equipment doesn't do a lot (it's not bad, but I don't feel it's worth the 'risk')
-Qasali beats pretty hard, it even "hastes" for 1 a lot of the time which is relevant for Ad Naus
-Most importantly some games you have Thalia and they start playing LED or petal and passing, you can then play pridemage, hit them for an extra 1 damage with Thalia, then blow up their mana. It also destroys dread of night if they are playing it.
-I didn't count but I think this leaves room for your 4th mother which is pretty nice

Batterskull is a silver bullet against Goblin tokens. If a Stormer can't empty for 14 or empty turn 1, they'll have a tough time getting around lifegain of 8 per turn.

[Rascalyote]

Batterskull is a silver bullet against Goblin tokens. If a Stormer can't empty for 14 or empty turn 1, they'll have a tough time getting around lifegain of 8 per turn.

I'd be a bit more inclined to keep SFM in if we ran batterskull but neither of us (Neely and I) have it in our 75. It's also extra soft to Cabal Therapy.

You can beat most empties that aren't early just by jamming creatures (or Zealous), the reason they play it is because it's easier to "storm off" with empty before we play our hatebear. After we play one they'll probably just go for a tendrils line, which equipment isn't the greatest against (not saying Jitte gaining 4 is irrelevant, it's just slow, even BSK doesn't hit until turn 4.)

[powerhawk]

How do you guys board against Shardless? I've been having a lot of success with this deck online (sitting at 61-28 in leagues, this was my foray into legacy), but this is one match up where I've been struggling.

My list is here:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/410253#online

My current plan is to bring in decays and chokes. and to take out Teeg, one QP, and a couple of Thalias.

BTW, do we really have a bad matchup against Miracles? I've heard this several times, but I'm sitting at 10-1 against them at the moment. Maybe it's just that a lot of the pilots in leagues aren't very experienced with the deck.

[Cpt-Qc]

How do you guys board against Shardless? I've been having a lot of success with this deck online (sitting at 61-28 in leagues, this was my foray into legacy), but this is one match up where I've been struggling.

My list is here:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/410253#online

My current plan is to bring in decays and chokes. and to take out Teeg, one QP, and a couple of Thalias.

BTW, do we really have a bad matchup against Miracles? I've heard this several times, but I'm sitting at 10-1 against them at the moment. Maybe it's just that a lot of the pilots in leagues aren't very experienced with the deck.

Personnally I keep Thalia in. They hate having to pay for spells when they cascade (at least that 1 mana is something). Also, KOTR into wasteland. They are just as soft as you are to wasteland but you can fetch them whenever you think it's appropriate and you have more removal to keep the early threats at bay (I have 3 decays and 4 swords main).

Of course I still think it's an unfavorable matchup but I just won against shardless a few days ago at my local store doing just that. Oh and bring Sigarda if you have her since they can't really handle it. I just jammed a deathrite, he jammed one. I wasted and plowed agressively into early threats. Once you get to knight, if you have the board advantage, just wasteland agressively and it favors you since KOTR gets bigger than goyf.

[ThunderPork]

Hi all. I'm playing Maverick GWb for a while now and I've scored multiple 4-1 in online MTGO leagues with a couple of 5-0. Yesterday I've also performed a won (final split) in a local tournament with the same list I use online. The main difference from traditional Maverick lists is that I don't run Stoneforge Mystic + equips. Here is the list:

Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs (online I'm playing Wooded Foothills since I don't have Catacombs, but with Catacombs I can fetch for Scrubland)
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy


Creatures (23)
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 The Gitrog Monster

Other(15)
2 Garruk Relentless
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green's Sun Zenith
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thoughtseize
2 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog

I designed it to have a lot of maindeck threats against Miracle (2 Sylvan Library and 2 Garruk Relentless), with some answers (3 Decay, 1 Qasali, 1 Gaddock and 3 Thalia) and a solid sideboard against it (Krosan Grip, Choke and Thoughtseize). So far I'm quite happy winning 18 single games and losing 8 (pre side board and post board, on the draw and on the play).
I've played also against a lot of other archetypes scoring 81 wins and 36 losts, finding the only terrible match up in Sneak & Show.
The Gitrog Monster really wins alone some match ups (Death and Taxes and other grindy MUs) and Courser of Kruphix really helps being a good card in couple with a Library or a Reliquary. I play just 3 Thalia maindeck since I have more spells than usual builds, but so far I'm pretty happy with this list. I wanted to share with you.

[calcymon]

3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
- always better 4, if she dont die u will be a happy fellow of mana denial, since maverick is denial mechanics deck

1 Qasali Pridemage
- awlays better 2 main, he has damage, he is low cost, u can zenith him more than 1 time, and from experience is a good thing vs many matchups


1 Courser of Kruphix
- mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh, with no dark depths combo he do less potential, ok, its good against burn but he sucks vs all others, 2-4 for 3 mana....2 green mana....mmmm, i tried him in 2 tournaments, only good vs burns, whe u have it in hand vs combo u will always cry

1 The Gitrog Monster
-better sigarda. u risk to go 0 lands, trust me

2 Garruk Relentless
-maybe 1, 2 its relly much, maybe u can run 1 elspelth


1 Crop Rotation
-no. without combo its a wasted card

[calcymon]

http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD09071S/


i will 100% try tireless tracker, it has a good potential

[Megadeus]

Is the General consensus that Cradle > DD combo? Right now my utility lands are like:
Wastelands
Karakas
Cradle
Rogues Passage

Any other lands worth picking up for niche uses? Tower of the Magistrate worth it?

[Cambriel]

Tower had some game when Death & Taxes was everywhere, but there aren't really enough equip decks to bother at the moment. Pridemage handles that problem.

I like Canopy a lot, because sometimes you just want to pump a Knight and cycle.

[pettdan]

I'm trying Tireless Tracker now; with Mother of Runes, GSZ, KotR and Gaea's Cradle in the deck it seems to fit very well. Only played one weekly tournament yet, too early to say.. (But since the subject was brought up..)

[powerhawk]

Hi all. I'm playing Maverick GWb for a while now and I've scored multiple 4-1 in online MTGO leagues with a couple of 5-0. Yesterday I've also performed a won (final split) in a local tournament with the same list I use online. The main difference from traditional Maverick lists is that I don't run Stoneforge Mystic + equips. Here is the list:

Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs (online I'm playing Wooded Foothills since I don't have Catacombs, but with Catacombs I can fetch for Scrubland)
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy


Creatures (23)
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 The Gitrog Monster

Other(15)
2 Garruk Relentless
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green's Sun Zenith
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thoughtseize
2 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog

I designed it to have a lot of maindeck threats against Miracle (2 Sylvan Library and 2 Garruk Relentless), with some answers (3 Decay, 1 Qasali, 1 Gaddock and 3 Thalia) and a solid sideboard against it (Krosan Grip, Choke and Thoughtseize). So far I'm quite happy winning 18 single games and losing 8 (pre side board and post board, on the draw and on the play).
I've played also against a lot of other archetypes scoring 81 wins and 36 losts, finding the only terrible match up in Sneak & Show.
The Gitrog Monster really wins alone some match ups (Death and Taxes and other grindy MUs) and Courser of Kruphix really helps being a good card in couple with a Library or a Reliquary. I play just 3 Thalia maindeck since I have more spells than usual builds, but so far I'm pretty happy with this list. I wanted to share with you.

Hey Thunderpork, we've played a couple times. I hate running into your list since I'm not running the Gitrog xD. I'm personally a bit scared of playing it, because I run into so much miracles and ANT in leagues.

[Vandalize]

Why bother playing a 5-drop that's not Sigarda, Host of Herons?

[calcymon]

Is the General consensus that Cradle > DD combo? Right now my utility lands are like:
Wastelands
Karakas
Cradle
Rogues Passage

Any other lands worth picking up for niche uses? Tower of the Magistrate worth it?

better vs taxes is:
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/dk/114.jpg

it stops crusader, good vs other matchups (lands/combo20-20/reanimator/ecc), magistrate is right now, it was playable in a full format of stoneblades.
with ith u can even attack with reliquary and after damage resolution u can untap it ^^


1x canopy is worth
ALWAYS

[sdematt]

Why bother playing a 5-drop that's not Sigarda, Host of Herons?

Yeah, Sigarda or Titania seem better. Gitrog is better in a Loam variant, I think.

Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy


Creatures (23)
4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

Other(15)
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Green's Sun Zenith
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thoughtseize
2 Krosan Grip
2 Armageddon
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Life from the Loam
1 Crop Rotation

Tweaks to your list.

-Matt

[Vandalize]

Yeah, Sigarda or Titania seem better. Gitrog is better in a Loam variant, I think.

Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy


Creatures (23)
4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

Other(15)
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Green's Sun Zenith
2 Sylvan Library

Sideboard (15)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thoughtseize
2 Krosan Grip
2 Armageddon
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Life from the Loam
1 Crop Rotation

Tweaks to your list.

-Matt

No Umezawa's Jitte? Outside of KotR, your dudes beat so soft without equipment. And Jitte auto wins against some decks if it can connect.

[sdematt]

No Umezawa's Jitte? Outside of KotR, your dudes beat so soft without equipment. And Jitte auto wins against some decks if it can connect.

Was tweaking his list. Id love to squeeze in a small SFM package, but dont have time to do much since #medschoolfinals

[Rascalyote]

Was tweaking his list. Id love to squeeze in a small SFM package, but dont have time to do much since #medschoolfinals

I miss you on Thursdays #nohomo

On topic I wouldn't play Maverick with less than 4 DRS, card is absurd.

[ThunderPork]

I just wanted to share with you my decklist. I won many games from nowhere with Gitrog Monster anyway, especially against D&T and Shardless BUG (and fair match ups in general).

[VERTUK]

I just wanted to share with you my decklist. I won many games from nowhere with Gitrog Monster anyway, especially against D&T and Shardless BUG (and fair match ups in general).

I love your list. Im currently playing grixus delver and hating miracles. Your list seems very well suited for a miracles environment. Grats. Do you think the list is good enought to win vs storm?

[ThunderPork]

I love your list. Im currently playing grixus delver and hating miracles. Your list seems very well suited for a miracles environment. Grats. Do you think the list is good enought to win vs storm?

You can win against storm, since you have many hate cards (and in game 1 you can search for Gaddock and just win), but I think Storm is slightly favorite (even if you add Thoughtseizes, Canonists and a Thalia post sideboard) since it can always have explosives hands. Sometimes you get them with Crop Rotation+Bojuka, but I can't find any slot for a 2nd Crop Rotation.
My deck since last month has been Grixis Delver, now I like this more. Miracles so far has been a good match up with 14 wins and 8 losses, definitely 2 Garruk and 2 Library help a lot.

[Gammelanz]

I miss you on Thursdays #nohomo

On topic I wouldn't play Maverick with less than 4 DRS, card is absurd.

DRS is definitely very powerful, but I actually think that one of the problems Maverick has in its current shape, is that without 4 Hierarchs and 2+ Pridemages, the deck is a bit thin on threats. Before the switch to DRS and Abrupt Decays, basically any creature was a threat when there were 2+ exalted triggers, but now only the Knights or something bearing equipment can get through enemy blockers and deal a reasonable amount of damage. It may be that the damage from the DRS activations are enough to offset that, but I do think that the deck have been slowed down a bit by the absence of Exalted.

[Koby]

I just wanted to share with you my decklist. I won many games from nowhere with Gitrog Monster anyway, especially against D&T and Shardless BUG (and fair match ups in general).

Odd that a Legendary creature is good vs D&T. Seems like extraordinary circumstances to keep it in play against the 3 Karakas deck.

[calcymon]

Odd that a Legendary creature is good vs D&T. Seems like extraordinary circumstances to keep it in play against the 3 Karakas deck.

and mother of runes

and mirran crusader

gitrog is more ueless than ever.

[ThunderPork]

Odd that a Legendary creature is good vs D&T. Seems like extraordinary circumstances to keep it in play against the 3 Karakas deck.

With 4 Wasteland and Knight of Reliquary in the deck? And all you need is playing while Karakas is tapped, draw some extra cards and use card advantage to win the game. But maybe is better looking at cards and make a judgment instead of trying them. Your choice.

[pettdan]

I think Gitrog is interesting but it's kind of competing with Tireless Tracker. I played Tireless Tracker this week and it ended up drawing me a shitload of cards. It comes down a while earlier so that's nice, also you're not relying on cards entering a graveyard (Rest in Peace is a card). Anyway, keep on playing and let us know. :)

[Vandalize]

Sup guys, I've played a local FNM Legacy in my local, 4 rounds with a nice 3-0-1 record. Matches went pretty good.

Lands [23]
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor

Creatures [23]
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Spells [14]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Abrupt Decay

Sideboard [15]
4 Thoughtseize
2 Choke
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle

R1) Eldrazi Stompy (2-0)

G1: I know my opponent is on Eldrazi so I snap-keep a hand with double Wasteland on the play. I start with fetch -> Savannah -> GSZ for Dryad Arbor. He starts with Ancient Tomb -> Mimic. I play Thalia and Wasteland his Ancient Tomb. He plays another Ancient Tomb and another Mimic. I Wasteland him again. He doesn't make a land drop for 3 turns, while I get a Knight out and start growing it up. As he finally finds another land, my Knight is already able to tap and find those extra Wastelands and he realizes that by scooping up.

SB:
+4 Thoughtseize, +1 Krosan Grip, -4 Mother of Runes, -1 Scavenging Ooze

G2: He starts with City of Traitors and casts a 2/2 Endless One. I start with fetch -> Savannah -> Deathrite Shaman. He plays another land without tapping City of Traitors before, so I make him sacrifice City, he tries to rollback but I call the judge and he rules in my favor. He ships the turn. I play another fetch, break it and cast Qasali Pridemage and a Thoughtseize off Deathrite Shaman, grabbing a Thought-Knot Seer. He plays another land, casts Master Reshaper, passes the turn. I draw a GSZ and fire it for 3, grabbing Knight. He doesn't make a land drop and casts a 3/3 Endless One. I draw another GSZ for the turn, cast it for Scryb Ranger and activate Knight twice to grab double Wasteland and leave him without a mana source. He gets a few beats off those Endless Ones and Reshaper, but my Knight is already huge and able to attack and block every turn (thanks to Scryb). He scoops it up showing 2 All is Dust in his hand.

R2) Belcher (2-1)

G1: I don't know what my opponent is playing, and I lost the roll. I draw a keepable hand. Only to watch him goldfish me with his turn 1 Empty the Warrens for 14.

SB:
+4 Thoughtseize, +1 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Zealous Persecution, -4 Swords to Plowshares, -4 Mother of Runes, -1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

G2: He mulls to 6 and scries and keeps the top. I start with Thoughtseize grabbing his lone Goblin Charbelcher, leaving his hand full of mana. He draws and passes. I play another land and cast GSZ for 1 (as I don't have a third land) and search for Noble. I draw another GSZ and fire it for Gaddock Teeg and he scoops.

G3: He mulls to 5 on the play, scries to bottom and pass the turn. I open with fetch -> Savannah -> Noble Hierarch. He draws again, use Land Grant, exile 2 Spirit Guides, cast Seething Song and Empty the Warrens for 6 tokens. His hand now has only 1 card, so I cast a Knight for my turn 2 and he realizes he's in deep trouble. He tries to stall with the Goblins looking for mana and Charbelcher, but I manage to draw a Thalia and later I GSZ for Gaddock Teeg and he scoops.

R3) Miracles (1-1 draw)

G1: This game is surprisingly fast. I open with THE NUTS against Miracles: double land, Mother of Runes and Gaddock Teeg. He starts with Island, go. I play Mom. He fetches for Tundra and casts Counterbalance. I play Teeg, he tanks for a minute. He announces the Counterbalance trigger and it's a land! He can't remove my duo and can't find his 1-of Council's Judgement to rain on my parade so I steal a very unlikely game 1 win.

SB:
+2 Choke, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Abrupt Decay, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Pithing Needle, -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Umezawa's Jitte, -1 Wasteland

G2: This game takes almost 30 minutes. He uses all 4 Terminus and Swords to Plowshares (even with Snapcaster Mage) and I'm not able to stick a creature for long. When I finally get my Choke down, he has 2 untapped Islands and is able to cast Jace, the Mind Sculptor (with a Counter Top already working). I can't remove Jace nor cast anything and lose.

G3: We start G3 with no time left so we went to 5 rounds. Neither my nor his deck can end the game in 5 turns so it's a draw.

R4) Weird Modern Jund? (2-0)

G1: He starts with fetch -> Blood Crypt (taking 3 damage) and Bolts me in his Main Phase. I couldn't ask for anything better than this. I start with Deathrite Shaman, he plays Dark Confidant. I remove his Bob and cast Thalia. He plays another fetch into Overgrown Tomb and tries to cast Liliana of the Veil, but I tell him that Thalia makes that costs 4, he ships the turn. I play my third land and cast Knight and a Mom. He plays Blackcleave Cliffs (tapped) and passes. My Knight starts to Wasteland the shit out of him and he scoops when he realizes my Knight is 8/8 and growing.

SB:
+1 Abrupt Decay, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Bojuka Bog, -2 Qasali Pridemage, -1 Gaddock Teeg

G2: He starts with Blackcleave Cliffs into Inquisition of Kozilek, taking my Knight. I play Forest -> Noble. He plays a fetch and casts Duress, grabbing Abrupt Decay. I play Mom and Jitte in my turn. He doesn't make a land drop, passes. I equip my Noble with Jitte and attack, he tries to Bolt it, but I just tap Mom to give protection and his face is like: omg, I should have read that card. Jitte starts growing and he still can't make a third land drop, but uses Thoughtseize (grabbing GSZ) and use Extirpate on it. Fine, bro. I draw a Knight and cast it, attack again with equipped Noble. He finally gets the third land and cast Liliana of the Veil, I sacrifice Noble. I equip Knight with Jitte and kill his Liliana (going up to 6 charges on Jitte), he gets the fourth land and casts Thrun, the Last Troll. I attack with my 5/5 equipped Knight and he doesn't block, I use all my charges making Knight 17/17 and he just dies.

Tournament was fun, but everyone aside from that Miracles player isn't very experienced with Legacy (or Magic in general). I get some good store credit, and buy some Pauper foil staples, like Mulldrifters, Sign in Bloods and Chainer's Edict.

Fun fact: I didn't cast any of my CA engines. Never drew any Library or Tireless Tracker (and didn't need to GSZ for it).

[Barook]

G2: He starts with City of Traitors and casts a 2/2 Endless One. I start with fetch -> Savannah -> Deathrite Shaman. He plays another land without tapping City of Traitors before, so I make him sacrifice City, he tries to rollback but I call the judge and he rules in my favor.
City of Traitors is a sacrifice trigger that goes on the stack. You can still tap it for mana meanwhile.

Could you clarify the situation better? Because the way you described it, both you and the judge were terribly wrong unless I misunderstand something.

[Vandalize]

City of Traitors is a sacrifice trigger that goes on the stack. You can still tap it for mana meanwhile.

Could you clarify the situation better? Because the way you described it, both you and the judge were terribly wrong unless I misunderstand something.

He played the second land and tapped it (without announcing the trigger). Then tapped City. In this case, the trigger is already done, right?

[Barook]

He played the second land and tapped it (without announcing the trigger). Then tapped City. In this case, the trigger is already done, right?
Nope, you can tap the second land and tap the City while the trigger is still on the stack. You can use mana sources whenever you want as long as the trigger is on the stack and you hold priority. Can also confirm due to MTGO testing.

[Vandalize]

Nope, you can tap the second land and tap the City while the trigger is still on the stack. You can use mana sources whenever you want as long as the trigger is on the stack and you hold priority. Can also confirm due to MTGO testing.

Well, I guess myself and the judge fucked him up then. It happens, haha.

[ThunderPork]

I think Gitrog is interesting but it's kind of competing with Tireless Tracker. I played Tireless Tracker this week and it ended up drawing me a shitload of cards. It comes down a while earlier so that's nice, also you're not relying on cards entering a graveyard (Rest in Peace is a card). Anyway, keep on playing and let us know. :)

I tried Tireless Tracker in the place of Courser of Kruphix and I liked the second more, so I switched back to it. Maybe I should try it in the place of Gitrog, but I'm really happy how it can win games alone without using your mana to draw. My impressions were that Tracker was really good when I was ahead, but it was a poor threat when I needed to recover my position in the game. At least so far, but I'm gonna try it again even if I'm really impressed by Gitrog right now.
Today I put another 5-0 with this deck in a MTGO Legacy League. I don't know why few people play Maverick, arriving from Grixis Delver I find this deck really good.

[Vandalize]

Today I put another 5-0 with this deck in a MTGO Legacy League. I don't know why few people play Maverick, arriving from Grixis Delver I find this deck really good.

Since the printing of Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay, Knight of the Reliquary got significantly worse. And Maverick has a poor combo matchup as well. But it's awesome against Tempo/Delver variants, which is the main reason why I'm playing this deck (the second being the Fun/Nostalgy).

[Stuhl]

Since the printing of Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay, Knight of the Reliquary got significantly worse. And Maverick has a poor combo matchup as well. But it's awesome against Tempo/Delver variants, which is the main reason why I'm playing this deck (the second being the Fun/Nostalgy).

Actually, Maverick has a pretty strong combo match up. Ask any Storm player, 4x Thalia, 4 Zenith to Gaddock Teeg + 2nd Teeg, Canonist, Thoughtseizes from SB are definitely putting combo decks under pressure.

I think I won more games against Storm than Shardless Bug...

Of course, durdely T1 combo decks a la Oops All Spells are not winnable if they can go off T1. But hey, it is really rare to face one of these decks in my eyes.

[ironclad8690]

To those trying out Gitrog: Why not Elspeth, Knight-Errant instead of Garruk Relentless?

She can jump the toad and 9 damage will often be lethal by that point int he lategame. She also produces tokens every turn just like Garruk.

[Seraphix]

To those trying out Gitrog: Why not Elspeth, Knight-Errant instead of Garruk Relentless?

She can jump the toad and 9 damage will often be lethal by that point int he lategame. She also produces tokens every turn just like Garruk.

2/2 tokens are a lot better than 1/1 tokens against stuff like Jitte, ZP/Golgari Charm (already good against Maverick), not to mention all the Squires/Grey Ogres. Garruk also doubles as removal with the "fight" ability, plus the shit-ton of other abilities he has when flipped. I think Garruk is popular for these reasons.

I still play Elspeth a lot though. The jump ability is very strong and she is substantially more resilient.

[ThunderPork]

To those trying out Gitrog: Why not Elspeth, Knight-Errant instead of Garruk Relentless?

She can jump the toad and 9 damage will often be lethal by that point int he lategame. She also produces tokens every turn just like Garruk.

Mainly because you can have all the mana you need from Cradle, while Elspeth needs two white mana. Moreover sometimes it really helps kill some Deathrite Shamans with Garruk. I'd say Garruk is more versatile: while Elspeth is probably stronger on her own, having the ability to kill small creatures, bring in 2/2 (against Miracle it really matters having bigger bodies, pumping a single creature sometimes just wins you a removal) and search for a creature in the deck is just better in this deck. The main reason I run 2 Garruk is having non creature threats against Miracle (aside with Sylvan Library which they have to counter/remove quickly), where I think Garruk is better than Elspeth providing bigger creatures.

[Claymore]

Interesting GWr Punishing Maverick build out of MKM (2/426) with ETutor sideboard for...Moat?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20455&iddeck=156011

[Stuhl]

I'm really not sure about the Gitrog Monster. Is it really that useful? For me it looks like win more in every aspect and besides that it's not Karakas/Swords proof like Thrun or Sigarda...

It also does not help against fast decks. I see, it helps in "fair" creature MUs but there the DD combo is also an allstar. And the DD combo can finish stalled games pretty fast.

So, I will test Gitrog myself, but just from thinking about it, I'm not really convinced yet.

[Seraphix]

Interesting GWr Punishing Maverick build out of MKM (2/426) with ETutor sideboard for...Moat?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20455&iddeck=156011

Moat is probably a concession to Eldrazi primarily. With access to Dark Depths, you can win over it without much difficulty.

Gorzgen has probably played Punishing Maverick more than anyone and has consistently done well with the deck since 2011. I would put a lot of trust into this list.

[ironclad8690]

Moat is probably a concession to Eldrazi primarily. With access to Dark Depths, you can win over it without much difficulty.

Gorzgen has probably played Punishing Maverick more than anyone and has consistently done well with the deck since 2011. I would put a lot of trust into this list.

Yep, I'd definitely wager moat is for eldrazi.

Fabian is a punishing maverick beast, he pretty much sticks to his guns and I think he has been playing GW since the survival days and even before. He is truly dedicated to the archetype and probably has the most amount of success with the punishing version.

[Stuhl]

I'm so torn between Cradle and the DD combo. I think you definitely can't run both. Right now, against a lot of decks like BUG or Eldrazi the DD combo seems like a nice, quick finisher out of a bad situation. On the other hand is the combo bad against Miracles, which is still dominating.

Also, is there a reason why all lists play rather Sword of Light and Shadow than Batterskull? I think Batterskull is a good threat these days against a lot of decks. Also, the Cradle allows fast plays if there is no Stoneforge on the board.

[powerhawk]

I'm so torn between Cradle and the DD combo. I think you definitely can't run both. Right now, against a lot of decks like BUG or Eldrazi the DD combo seems like a nice, quick finisher out of a bad situation. On the other hand is the combo bad against Miracles, which is still dominating.

Also, is there a reason why all lists play rather Sword of Light and Shadow than Batterskull? I think Batterskull is a good threat these days against a lot of decks. Also, the Cradle allows fast plays if there is no Stoneforge on the board.

I like it because it on a Gaddock Teeg is pretty much game over for miracles unless they find a council's judgement. That said, I'm thinking of testing out batterskull.

[Stuhl]

Hm... I see, a Teeg with SoLaS is the dream against miracles, but to me it seems difficult to achieve and probably they will find their Council anyways... But Mother plus Teeg is also nearly a complete lock (except for double Sword or something), which can be assembled more naturally in my eyes.
I dislike SoLaS against other decks. I don't like its trigger very much. Also the argument "Decay proof" does not hold as they can just Decay the Sword itself. SoFaI is so much better in my eyes. In general I tend more to play only Jitte and SoFaI alongside 2 Stoneforges or just 2 Jitte and instead of Stoneforges other value creatures or Decays.

[pettdan]

I think with Eldrazi around Batterskull becomes slightly better than it used to be. The main reason to play Sword of Light and Shadow the way I see it is because of Miracles, protecting any creature from StP is very good and EOT fetching Dryad Arbor to keep pressure up is very good too, it's not all about Gaddock.

I'll post the Sword of L&S pro list again, thanks to Google (I failed at finding it using the source search functions):

Sword of L&S has e.g. the following applications:
- Equip a bird for infinite blocking of Marit Lage.
- Equip Gaddock for soft lock vs Miracles.
- Equip Dryad to force Terminus from Miracles, then fetch it back eot and equip again.
- Protection from Monk and Angel tokens
- Life gain vs Burn, Grixis, etc.
- Qasali Pridemage recursive artifact/enchantment destruction.
- Block and attack through Batterskull equipped on a germ token.
- Good vs D&T for winning a damage race and protecting key creatures.
- Life gain for extra card draw through Sylvan Library.


Nice to see a Maverick list doing so well. But when playing P.Fire and no Thalias I tend to think that you might as well play Aggro Loam and get juicy card draw and Chalices.

[ThunderPork]

I'm really not sure about the Gitrog Monster. Is it really that useful? For me it looks like win more in every aspect and besides that it's not Karakas/Swords proof like Thrun or Sigarda...

It also does not help against fast decks. I see, it helps in "fair" creature MUs but there the DD combo is also an allstar. And the DD combo can finish stalled games pretty fast.

So, I will test Gitrog myself, but just from thinking about it, I'm not really convinced yet.

It basically wins alone against Shardless BUG, which is one of the most played deck. People keep saying Sigarda is better but I found many times I was able to come back just drawing tons of cards.

[powerhawk]

Hm... I see, a Teeg with SoLaS is the dream against miracles, but to me it seems difficult to achieve and probably they will find their Council anyways... But Mother plus Teeg is also nearly a complete lock (except for double Sword or something), which can be assembled more naturally in my eyes.
I dislike SoLaS against other decks. I don't like its trigger very much. Also the argument "Decay proof" does not hold as they can just Decay the Sword itself. SoFaI is so much better in my eyes. In general I tend more to play only Jitte and SoFaI alongside 2 Stoneforges or just 2 Jitte and instead of Stoneforges other value creatures or Decays.

That makes sense... I'll have to test more. Though, because of the reasons above, I find myself fetching it with stone forge very often. It's mostly only good because the colors of protection are just so relevant... the ability to fetch creatures back is irrelevant quite often, like you said. I've run into several games where it's enabled me to swing past swarms of mentor tokens for the win, or block a gurmag or germ token to stall, for instance.

[Luthiereisfun]

I have recently had similar thoughts about the different SFM packages and am going to try a list based off of Thunderpork's and just run 2x copies of Jitte. I think there are certain situations where SoLaS and SoFaI are better situationally then Jitte but I feel like the Jitte would still be pretty darn good. Maverick lists always feel so tight because of the awesome cards and directions we can take the deck so freeing up a few slots by omitting SFM might be worth the trade off.

[Thunderknight]

This was my list that I ran at the GP NY., legacy challenge. I came 13th place. I also wrote a TR on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/4is6gs/gp_ny_legacy_showdown_tr_gideons_dark_maverick/

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gideons-dark-maverick/

[Stuhl]

This was my list that I ran at the GP NY., legacy challenge. I came 13th place. I also wrote a TR on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/4is6gs/gp_ny_legacy_showdown_tr_gideons_dark_maverick/

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gideons-dark-maverick/

Nice finish. Did you enjoy the DD combo? Or did you sometimes wish you had access to a Cradle for insta equiping somthing to push through a Jitte?

In general I don't like something like 3 Mother of Runes. It looks strange in a way. In the current meta I'd rather go to 3 Thalia, 4 Mother. More and more decks are not really impressed by Thalia these days... Also, I'm not a fan of the 5th dork in general, but why Birds over Noble? Just for the flying thing?

[Thunderknight]

Nice finish. Did you enjoy the DD combo? Or did you sometimes wish you had access to a Cradle for insta equiping somthing to push through a Jitte?

In general I don't like something like 3 Mother of Runes. It looks strange in a way. In the current meta I'd rather go to 3 Thalia, 4 Mother. More and more decks are not really impressed by Thalia these days... Also, I'm not a fan of the 5th dork in general, but why Birds over Noble? Just for the flying thing?

There are times where I want to see the DD combo. I really want to shift over to Deathblade, but for now I'm fine killing my opponents with a 20/20.

Birds: Its supposed to be a noble, but sometimes I need to fly over the air with a sword.

I've been wondering about the same question about the number of Thalias verus Mother. I don't know. I"m still figuring that out.

[Bobmans]

There are times where I want to see the DD combo. I really want to shift over to Deathblade, but for now I'm fine killing my opponents with a 20/20.

Birds: Its supposed to be a noble, but sometimes I need to fly over the air with a sword.

I've been wondering about the same question about the number of Thalias verus Mother. I don't know. I"m still figuring that out.

DD/Stage is really nice and always lurking. Being able to break the symmetry can be huge. But i feel that it doesn't happen as often as in Aggro Loam for an example. And a lot of times having DD or Stage (to a lesser extend) feels super clunky. Staring at it and wishing it were a Swamp or a Gaea's Cradle. Speaking of the latter i would rather drop the DD/Stage combo in return for Gaea's Cradle and Sigarda, Host of Herons.

On a side note, i have been running a one-off Tarmogoyf and am pretty happy with it. It is a fairly quick clock (vs combo aswell), but most of all, it is a solid wall vs Eldrazi that can be fetched with GSZ. Coupled with MoM or equipment, it can end games fairly quickly.

Edit: Ow and did i mention that Scryb Ranger is freaking awesome in the deck, even without DD/Stage.

[Luthiereisfun]

So I ran tireless tracker last night as a 1 of and so far I am pleased. He drew me a bunch of cards and could get pretty big. So far my thoughts are that triggering tracker to get clues is pretty easy considering we have fetchlands, knight of the reliquary and scryb ranger. For the same reason it's easy to get clues, having 4-5 dorks, KOTR, Scryb Ranger and Gaea's Cradle make popping the clues not as painful as you would think. He definitely seems like a card that shines in the mid to late game when you might have excess mana or start to run out of gas. His 3/2 body certainly not the best, was usually good enough that playing him early didn't feel "bad" and he could put decent pressure on an opponent.

I am still open to the idea that he doesn't cut it, might be too slow or that a card like courser fits the role better. But so far I really like him.

[Stuhl]

DD/Stage is really nice and always lurking. Being able to break the symmetry can be huge. But i feel that it doesn't happen as often as in Aggro Loam for an example. And a lot of times having DD or Stage (to a lesser extend) feels super clunky. Staring at it and wishing it were a Swamp or a Gaea's Cradle. Speaking of the latter i would rather drop the DD/Stage combo in return for Gaea's Cradle and Sigarda, Host of Herons.

On a side note, i have been running a one-off Tarmogoyf and am pretty happy with it. It is a fairly quick clock (vs combo aswell), but most of all, it is a solid wall vs Eldrazi that can be fetched with GSZ. Coupled with MoM or equipment, it can end games fairly quickly.

Edit: Ow and did i mention that Scryb Ranger is freaking awesome in the deck, even without DD/Stage.

The point is, that DD combo is "unfair". Getting out Sigarda or durdeling around with Cradle leaves your opponent a few more turn to handle the situation. Getting the combo eot ends the game immediately. Especially against Nic Fit/Eldrazi/Mervolk/Elves you want to finish the game asap. I think these days an occasional "win button" is a good thing.
I really love Cradle and there are also little combo turns in which you play Stoneforge, get euqipment, get Cradle, insta euqip, attack, etc... I think all in all it's a matter of taste. I just hate it when the ground is crowded and you durdle around with Knights and equipment. Sigarda is nice, but rather slow and also "dies" to Terminus, Toxic Deluge, Council's Judgement. Marit Lage also dies to a lot, but when playing correctly you at least dodge a ton of sorcery speed removal.

From time to time I try a one off Crop Rotation. It gives some flexibility concerning the combo and can get utility lands like Karakas if you play against Reanimator stuff.

Concerning Tracker: I somehow thing this is a little strange. Do you not just want to play The Gitrog Monster in that spot? For me it seems worty to pay 2 mana more for a less vulnerable, reasonable sizeed and highly efficient draw engine.
Courser is nice, imo. He gives you a little top manipulation and with a Library in game he is insane. Also, not dying to Bolt is cool. The life gain is also relevant against fast aggro decks.

[Luthiereisfun]

Concerning Tracker: I somehow thing this is a little strange. Do you not just want to play The Gitrog Monster in that spot? For me it seems worty to pay 2 mana more for a less vulnerable, reasonable sizeed and highly efficient draw engine.
Courser is nice, imo. He gives you a little top manipulation and with a Library in game he is insane. Also, not dying to Bolt is cool. The life gain is also relevant against fast aggro decks.

I actually also played Gitrog. I went away from my usual list and wanted to try out these new cards. Gitrog was also really good. In one game he died after the second turn I played him but I was still able to draw 5 cards off of him. For now I liked Gitrog too. He did a good job of drawing cards and his body was really nice. I wanted Tracker to be a card that could come down as early as turn 2, put pressure with a decent body with potential to be huge and draw me cards. He did all those roles. I think the question of Tracker being worthy comes down too A) is he efficient enough? B) Are his abilities what we want/worth the card slot?

I can't answer those questions confidently but so far I like Tracker.

[ThunderPork]

I actually also played Gitrog. I went away from my usual list and wanted to try out these new cards. Gitrog was also really good. In one game he died after the second turn I played him but I was still able to draw 5 cards off of him. For now I liked Gitrog too. He did a good job of drawing cards and his body was really nice. I wanted Tracker to be a card that could come down as early as turn 2, put pressure with a decent body with potential to be huge and draw me cards. He did all those roles. I think the question of Tracker being worthy comes down too A) is he efficient enough? B) Are his abilities what we want/worth the card slot?

I can't answer those questions confidently but so far I like Tracker.

I tried both Gitrog and Tracker and so far I like the former more. It doesn't die to Bolt or Decay and that's nice, and you draw cards immediately without investing mana. Courser is insane with Library, usually I search for it when I've already a Library resolved.

[Luthiereisfun]

I tried both Gitrog and Tracker and so far I like the former more. It doesn't die to Bolt or Decay and that's nice, and you draw cards immediately without investing mana. Courser is insane with Library, usually I search for it when I've already a Library resolved.

I put tracker in my deck over the slot of courser. I won't deny that courser is great. I have played courser and tracker and for that role I think either is fine. But I think both have their pros and cons. From my experiences Tracker was more explosive than courser in that once he got going the other deck wanted to kill him immediately. To get him online also didn't seem to take much.

He single handledly won me the match against nic fit that got a t2 siege rhino. I plowed the first rhino and had a board stall with a second rhino where neither of us could trade favorably. I dropped tracker, he didn't have the removal and tracker grew to be a 9/8 and re filled my hand.

I had a similar situation against goblins where we were trading 1 for 1 and we both had run out of the majority of gas for our decks. I dropped Tracker played a fetch land the next turn and was able to draw 2 cards and tracker was at a point where he couldn't deal with it and how many cards I was drawing.

He just seems to draw cards much better than courser at the cost of having to invest mana into him. With how much ramp we have and especially mid to late game when we have excess mana I will take that trade off.

Before I was unsure of tracker but I am on board with him now.

Also I based my list that I 4-0'd my lgs last Saturday with off yours Thunderpork! Your list helped me look at the deck differently and I really liked it!

[ThunderPork]

I put tracker in my deck over the slot of courser. I won't deny that courser is great. I have played courser and tracker and for that role I think either is fine. But I think both have their pros and cons. From my experiences Tracker was more explosive than courser in that once he got going the other deck wanted to kill him immediately. To get him online also didn't seem to take much.

He single handledly won me the match against nic fit that got a t2 siege rhino. I plowed the first rhino and had a board stall with a second rhino where neither of us could trade favorably. I dropped tracker, he didn't have the removal and tracker grew to be a 9/8 and re filled my hand.

I had a similar situation against goblins where we were trading 1 for 1 and we both had run out of the majority of gas for our decks. I dropped Tracker played a fetch land the next turn and was able to draw 2 cards and tracker was at a point where he couldn't deal with it and how many cards I was drawing.

He just seems to draw cards much better than courser at the cost of having to invest mana into him. With how much ramp we have and especially mid to late game when we have excess mana I will take that trade off.

Before I was unsure of tracker but I am on board with him now.

Also I based my list that I 4-0'd my lgs last Saturday with off yours Thunderpork! Your list helped me look at the deck differently and I really liked it!

Cool, I'm glad to be helpful.

[Stuhl]

He single handledly won me the match against nic fit that got a t2 siege rhino. I plowed the first rhino and had a board stall with a second rhino where neither of us could trade favorably. I dropped tracker, he didn't have the removal and tracker grew to be a 9/8 and re filled my hand.


How did you grow him so fast? Ok, getting the clues is a quick process as you play a land/fetch land every turn. But for growing him 9/8 you have to pop 6 clues = 12 mana. In my eyes that's a rather slow process and not very impressive as he anyways dies to every removal spell. I mean, we want do play stuff in our turn, don't we? So, if you play something on your turn, you may have 1-2 mana left open. That's about 1 clue every turn. Of course, in a late game scenario you can pop more clues but in my eyes, there is better stuff that does not die to a Lightning Bolt for late game applications. In a way we want to close the game and not durdle around with card and clues, so stuff like Sigarda/DD combo seems to have more impact on games as Tracker.

[Luthiereisfun]

How did you grow him so fast? Ok, getting the clues is a quick process as you play a land/fetch land every turn. But for growing him 9/8 you have to pop 6 clues = 12 mana. In my eyes that's a rather slow process and not very impressive as he anyways dies to every removal spell. I mean, we want do play stuff in our turn, don't we? So, if you play something on your turn, you may have 1-2 mana left open. That's about 1 clue every turn. Of course, in a late game scenario you can pop more clues but in my eyes, there is better stuff that does not die to a Lightning Bolt for late game applications. In a way we want to close the game and not durdle around with card and clues, so stuff like Sigarda/DD combo seems to have more impact on games as Tracker.

This was in the mid game against nic fit so they had already ramped me with some basics. I had pithing needle on deed and gaea's cradle out with a few creatures. The turn I dropped tracker my hand didn't have anything relevant so I played a fetch and popped 2 clues. This grew tracker and drew me something like an abrupt decay and another fetch. So the next turn I drew, played the fetch and drew another 2 cards. I believe at that point I drew a Garruk and dropped him and I was able to swing with tracker which was now bigger than his rhino. The next turn I had another fetch so I drew 2 cards again and that's when he was 9/8. Yea if he had the swords or path he would have died but the same can be said about Knight of the Reliquary and that is one of the best cards in our deck.

Him and I were both in a top deck war and Tracker even over 2 turns of not being answered drew me 4 cards. Yes that is spending 4 mana each turn. But when the cards you are drawing are lands or aren't relevant and you need to go further to dig for something better I rather have sunk my mana into the clues and grow my creature.

[Megadeus]

This was in the mid game against nic fit so they had already ramped me with some basics. I had pithing needle on deed and gaea's cradle out with a few creatures. The turn I dropped tracker my hand didn't have anything relevant so I played a fetch and popped 2 clues. This grew tracker and drew me something like an abrupt decay and another fetch. So the next turn I drew, played the fetch and drew another 2 cards. I believe at that point I drew a Garruk and dropped him and I was able to swing with tracker which was now bigger than his rhino. The next turn I had another fetch so I drew 2 cards again and that's when he was 9/8. Yea if he had the swords or path he would have died but the same can be said about Knight of the Reliquary and that is one of the best cards in our deck.

Him and I were both in a top deck war and Tracker even over 2 turns of not being answered drew me 4 cards. Yes that is spending 4 mana each turn. But when the cards you are drawing are lands or aren't relevant and you need to go further to dig for something better I rather have sunk my mana into the clues and grow my creature.

I've been quite pleased with tracker lately. He's been really solid, especially when you have cradle. Plenty of extra mana to use.

I've been playing a red version of maverick and have had middling amounts of success. Any worth it green Sun targets? The best side board options are probably like Red Blasts, Elextrickery, and Ancient Grudge, but I sometimes find myself struggling against other fair decks. Best way to fight Elves too? I was thinking like Hushwing Griff maybe. Artifacts and Enchantments are pretty vulnerable and Gryff shuts off their Visionary, rec sage, and Craterhoof

[jrsthethird]

I've been quite pleased with tracker lately. He's been really solid, especially when you have cradle. Plenty of extra mana to use.

I've been playing a red version of maverick and have had middling amounts of success. Any worth it green Sun targets? The best side board options are probably like Red Blasts, Elextrickery, and Ancient Grudge, but I sometimes find myself struggling against other fair decks. Best way to fight Elves too? I was thinking like Hushwing Griff maybe. Artifacts and Enchantments are pretty vulnerable and Gryff shuts off their Visionary, rec sage, and Craterhoof

I've been playing Abzan Deathblade for a while and just thought about Tireless Tracker. Maverick seems like a better shell for him so I'm glad to see that it's being tested. Do you mind sharing your list?

[Megadeus]

My list right now isn't greatly tuned. Probably should be punishing but:

4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Granger Guildmage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Titania, Priestess of Argoth/Sigarda, Host of Herons/Huntnaster of the Fells

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Ajani Vengeant/Xenagos, The Reveler

4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Rouges Passage
2 Forest
1 Plains

SB:
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pyroblast
2 Banishing Light
2 Vryns Wingmare
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Life From the Loam
1 Pithing Needle
2 Electrickery
1 Hunt master of the Fells

SB varies night to night. Main is my slight over reaction to my over reaction to beat combo which cost me a match or two over the weekend.

[Luthiereisfun]

Here's a quick tournament report from a list I've been running and have had success from based off of Thunderpork's.

Also I will preface this by saying I have played tons of Maverick lists running a more stock or "normal" shell so already know that playing new Gideon and not a full playset of Mother of Runes or Thalia seems like blasphemy.

List:

Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 The Gitrog Monster

Instant/Sorcery
4 Green Sun Zenith
3 Swords To Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Life From the Loam

Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Lands (22)
4 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 savannah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
2 forest
2 plains
3 wasteland
1 horizon canopy
1 karakas
1 gaea's cradle

Sideboard
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Tormods Crypt

Report:

Round 1 vs Tezzerator (2-0)
G1: I am able to ramp into a turn 2 Knight of The Reliquary. Wasteland, Abrupt Decay and naturally drawing into a Gaddock Teeg is enough disruption to keep him from doing anything big while I beat with Knight and take it home.

G2: He plays chalices of the voids on 1 and 2 after I play a turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. Deathrite Shaman gives me the turn 2 Knight of The Reliquary followed up by turn 3 Gideon. Gideon and Knight are able to start smashing in for the win.

Round 2 vs Reanimator (2-0)
G1: I am lucky and the hand I kept was Dearthrite with Thalia backup. He doesn't have a 'nut' hand so my creatures can begin to clock him while he tries to deal with Deathrite.

G2: I have a turn 1 Tormods crypt and he doesn't have the nuts again. The Crypt and 2 swords to plowshares are enough throughout the game for me to eventually find Garruk and clock him before he can set up another re-animation spell.

Round 3 vs. Death and Taxes (2-0)
G1: We're both setting up our board states and trading 1 for 1. He grows a board with Serra Avenger, Mother of Runes, and Mirran Crusader among other things and he is too ahead on life to try and race. I had some creatures that at that point were outmatched and a sylvan library. With Library I am able to dig and find the Toxic Deluge and pay 3 life bringing me from 4 to 1. At that point I had a Knight that he swords. I draw more Knights and Tireless Tracker and he draws smaller creatures. At this point I am able to beat in with pretty big creatures and race him for the win.

G2:This match was very grindy. I am able to flip a garruk relentless on turn 3 by fighting his turn 2 stoneforge mystic. Garruk flips which had me feeling safe until he dropped mirran crusader and jitte. On my turn I use garruk to tutor for qasali pridemage and blow up jitte. Mirran Crusader begins to be trouble until I find spot removal for it. This game was similar to Game 1 where he is able to bring me down to 2 life but at that point I have already been able to swing it around with our bigger threats.

Round 4 vs U/R Delver (2-1)
G1: I mull to 5 and don't really have any gas. He steamrolls me with swiftspear and stormchaser.

G2:This game is grindy and he brings me down to 2 life. An active Deathrite with Scryb is able to bring me back to 6 life. I cast Gitrog which is able to draw me cards and bring in the beats/race for the win.

G3: He has a land light hand and I am able to resolve a Thalia with wasteland backup. Thalia and a Qasali Pridemage are able to bring in beats while he struggle to find a second land.

All in all I am having a lot of fun with this deck. The Death and Taxes player told me that he wasn't expecting the Toxic Deluge and I don't think many people do which is nice. I find that most people don't have a problem clogging up game 1 against us so it catches people on surprise. I also like it as a "catch up" card where if a deck gets a nut start on the draw and we can't keep up, it's a way for us to reset the game and start to take over with our bigger threats.

I use to just run a basic forest and a basic plains but have upped both by 2. Mana dorks are a great way to fight through other loam/wasteland, price of progress and blood moon effects (all things that I have struggled against with this deck) but they just aren't as stable for me as the basics have been. With Knight finding wasteland never felt like a problem and I never drew a basic wishing it was Wasteland. With life from the loam we can also keep replaying wastelands, so I am also not worried about not having enough.

Garruk is a planeswalker that seems to have earned a spot in Maverick if you want to play a planeswalker and Gideon acts as the "second garruk that I can play if I have garruk on the battlefield." I think making free 2/2's and being able to survive sweepers is already great when we're trying to grind out other decks. His +1 is also great against decks that don't have swords and the -4 is something I'll take over an ultimate that I would probably rarely cast anyway.

Gitrog Monster and Tireless Tracker have been great for me. They both come down at different stages of the game, they both draw me cards and they both have/get big bodies that can attack for big chunks of life. The CA they provide has been really good for me too and I have never had that "Why did I think it was ever a good idea to play this card!" moment (A moment I have had many times before while trying out/testing new/fringe cards).


I am really happy with where the list is at but I would love to hear others thoughts.

[Stuhl]

Here's a quick tournament report from a list I've been running and have had success from based off of Thunderpork's.

Also I will preface this by saying I have played tons of Maverick lists running a more stock or "normal" shell so already know that playing new Gideon and not a full playset of Mother of Runes or Thalia seems like blasphemy.

List:

Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 The Gitrog Monster

Instant/Sorcery
4 Green Sun Zenith
3 Swords To Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Life From the Loam

Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Lands (22)
4 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 savannah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
2 forest
2 plains
3 wasteland
1 horizon canopy
1 karakas
1 gaea's cradle

Sideboard
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Tormods Crypt



Well, I'm in general more a fan of the "traditional" lists, playing 4 MoR and 4 Wastelands. Playing 3 Thalia is legit, though, as these days more decks aren't that impressed by her. I played Garruk recently and was not super impressed. Now I play just a Decay in his spot as in most situations I wished he was just a blank removal spell.

Why are you playing 3 Canonists in your SB? Are you that fearful of combo decks? Imo Maverick has a "super" combo MU anyways (exluding fringe T0/T1 combo decks), playing Thalia and Teeg MB. I'd rather go -1 Canonist, +1 Thoughtseize as it has more applications.

The Toxic Deluge is super strange. I tend to lose against this card frequently. It kills everything, except KotR. I play Zealous persecution in my SB against Elves/DnT and stuff. There aren't that many swarm decks these days and we anyway swarm the board, too.

Well, Tracker and Gitrog are awesome creatures, but I'm still not on the train. The thing about Gitrog is, that he has no trample or whatsoever and thus does not help to win the game in stalled situations but rather gain lots of cards. Yet, I think in a creature heavy deck, drawing lots of cards isn't as strong as it is in a deck with access to blue and countermagic. In the Tracker spot I play a Courser of Kruphix which has somehow similar applications without paying 2 mana each turn. The life gain sometimes is relevant and with Mirri's Guile/Library he goes nuts.

Again, I'm really confident with DD combo, again. It feels good to have a "GG button". It's all about when going for it and when not. But at least playing one of the two lands makes your opponent shiver.

[Seraphix]

Question about the Shardless BUG matchup:

If you're running 2 Stoneforge Mystics and 2 Equips (lets say Jitte and Sophie), does it make sense to cut Mystics post-board? Tutoring Equips just seems to turn on discard early in the game, and making them uncounterable isn't relevant post-board. Ideally I want the Equips to roll of the top of my library in the mid to late game when I have 4-5 mana available. Both are good in the matchup, but neither seems like such a linchpin that I want "more copies" in the form of SFM, considering the games often go long enough that naturally drawing them is reasonable. I'm also usually bringing in some creatures like the Rec. Sage and the 2nd Ooze, so the number of bodies I have to carry equipment is roughly the same.

Thoughts?

[pettdan]

I've been putting some thought and playing into my list from last autumn during the last month, and I want to ventilate a couple of ideas. Also commenting on other discussions in this thread.

On the subject of Dark Depths and the 5 CMC slot, I like Titania a lot in Maverick. Just like Dark Depths she lets you put 20-ish power onto the board during the same turn, potentially. But unlike Depths she is not a dead draw by herself, a topdecked Titania is usually very powerful. I also like being able to go t1 Deathrite, t2 Kotr, t3 fetch Cradle and GSZ for Titania. There is also the occasional Karakas + Cradle into Wasteland + 5/3 every turn-lock. Titania is like a Depths + Stage combo in one slot with built in card advantage. And she's really good at producing 5/3 blockers for Eldrazi creatures (not that I can claim to have played the matchup extensivelly). I'm not convinced the Depths Stage combo is needed currently, I'd rather focus on spending extra slots on cards that are good vs Miracles right now.

In an attempt to improve the Miracles matchup, being the most played deck locally, I've tried (also based on Thunderporks suggestions) playing 2 Garruks and in addition to that 2 Sylvans in the main and an Elspeth and Bitterblossom in the sideboard. My current idea/approach is to keep playing 2 Sylvans in the main deck, they are good vs anything, and improve the Miracles matchup by playing 2 maindeck Bitterblossoms. To make up for the life loss I'll play 2 Umezawa's Jitte; I like Sword of L&S but it is often a bit dull in practice while Jitte is usually a game winning card. I think playing 2 Jitte in the main deck will help in some tough matchups (Grixis Delver, Eldrazi) and also play well with the potential life loss from 2 Sylvan, 2 Bitterblossom. Whether the 2 Bitterblossoms will do enough for the Miracles matchup to compensate for the loss of 1 Sword of L&S remains to be seen. Some nice and obvious interactions from this duo of cards that I want to mention are equipping Jitte and attacking with a Faerie Rogue token and after combat equipping it on the the just produced token. Also Bitterblossoms producing chump blockers helps protect Garruk (I'm always worried about playing planeswalkers without solid flying defenses). I could see an Ensnaring Bridge in the Enlightened Tutor sideboard with the same purpose as the Moat in Gorzgen's list from last page, with Bridge allowing attacks from flying Faerie Rogue tokens from Bitterblossom or massive buildup of tokens from Garruk/Elspeth.

I've been playing 3 Mothers and 3 Thalia for more than a year now, and whenever I try to improve the midrange matchups I pull out another Mother. So I'm currently on this build.

I've been playing 3-1 in a couple of local weekly tournaments and 2-2 in one (drawing a total of 5 lands over 2 games is bad, and it was even a game vs Miracles), also top 8ed a local 30-40-ish tournament with this list going 4-2 in the swiss rounds with losses being 1-2 to Belcher and Storm, losing in the semifinals against Miracles (in a probably close to 2 hour game where he was down to 1 life in the deciding game) even with all the Miracles tech I was playing: 2 maindecked Sylvan Library, 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Garruk Relentless and sideboarded 1 Bitterblossom, 1 Elspeth Knight Errant, 2 Choke.

Main deck: 61 cards
Equipments and white creatures:
2 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire & Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Green creature-package:
4 GSZ
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

Removal:
3 Swords to Plowshares:
3 Abrupt Decay

Other:
2 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Bitterblossom

Lands:
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains

SB (sorted with the slots I'm less convinced of at the top of the list):
1 Trinisphere (mostly because of the synergy with the two Chokes)
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Cataclysm (Kills Jaces, good synergy with KotR and Titania and also with Thalia vs combo decks)
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze (usually playing in the maindeck but making some unconventional changes just to get more Miracles relevant cards in the maindeck)
2 Choke
1 Aura Shards [a single card taking out dozens of cards vs some popular decks such as Shardless, Food Chain, Death & Taxes and anything with Stoneforge Mystic in it; then there are fringe matchups where it's even better - Stax-anything, Enchantress, Tezzeret, MUD]
1 Engineered Plague
1 Enlightened Tutor (changing the second Canonist for a tutor makes the rest of the sideboard better)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize

I'm toying with the idea of adding a Lightning Greaves to the sideboard. Having KotR's hasting in for damage seems really strong vs Planeswalkers and for speeding up the clock (in other matchups just Wasting the opponent when Knight comes down.). I think it's a cheap way, and tutorable with the Mystics, to put a lot of pressure on Miracles. It puts extra pressure on Miracles to find Terminus, and with the haste you may not need more than one creature in play at the time. A hexproof Deathrite with haste can be very good in some matchups, as can hexproof Ooze be. Other nice features are virtually playing Deathrites for free and having produced tokens from Garruk/Bitterblossom attack with haste. I could see myself trying a Lightning Greaves over one of the Mothers in the current list.

Tracker has continously drawn me a lot of cards. I really like him vs Miracles where you force them into a 3 for 1 trade, or better. But I need more testing to say for sure.

Also I keep changing Gaddock and Ooze between maindeck and sideboard. Gaddock is mostly valuable for the Storm matchup, I feel, and Ooze is valuable in basically every matchup (cheap, lifegaining large monster).

All comments welcome!

@Seraphix:
I would probably leave the Mystics in and try to not play them until I have Cradle in play [or at worst at least play the equipment during the same turn]. Leaving Mystic out seems bad since the equipments are really valuable in this matchup

[TMagpie]

I wanted to give some input on my experience thus far with Tireless Tracker and Dark Depths as this has been a big chat so far the past two pages.

Tireless Tracker

The best part of Tireless Tracker is that you can zenith for him cheaply. Many games I've won because I'd zenith for a tracker, play a fetchland and keep it untapped in cast he casts a removal spell. Oftentimes, even if they kill it at end of turn, you've already gotten a 3-1 trade with the 1:1 trade with a +2 potential cards on top of it. The few times I got to grow it was just gravy.

I had played Courser of Kruphix prior to Tireless Tracker as well. The main gain with Courser was that it had four toughness and life gain. I would say that they both "drew" about the same number of cards usually (1-2 before dying) with Tracker dying a lot more easily than Courser while also being slower than Courser. I've really liked the side use of Tracker as a maindeck "fatty" in case of grave hate.

Dark Depths

The best part of Dark Depths combo is that Thespian Stage is super powerful the more you play with it. I've locked out Eldrazi with double Maze of Ith while stabilizing, I've maintained my clock against Miracles by copying a Dryad Arbor that they were plowing, I've even copied a Horizon Canopy at eot turn, sacced my original canopy, then sacced my canopy copy in my main phase to get an extra draw step when flooding. The only real dead card is Dark Depths, which isn't even that dead with a Tireless Tracker in play. The biggest boon you get with Dark Depths is that, unlike Cradle, it wins you games you should have lost. The number of games I've won on an empty board because I naturally top deck the second combo piece is staggering. Cradle is much more powerful than the Dark Depths combo if you still have a full board, while Dark Depths is much better when you only have a Knight of the Reliquary out. I've won many matchups just resolving a Knight of the Reliquary, keeping it back for blocking for two turns as I set up the combo, and win with only 1 creature in play, no cards in hand, and facing next turn lethal.

So the real question you have to ask is not about which card is better, the real question you should have is *why* are you playing the trump card in that slot at all? What game states are you regularly pushed into/play into? What trump card best maximizes your chance to win assuming your habits/opponents regularly puts you in the types of positions you normally end up in?

As an example: I like how Dark Depths Combo allows Knight to be lethal even with a turn two rest in peace. I like that the Dark Depths combo does not need any creatures in play for you to kill people with it. This is because my metagame has lots of grave hate and lots of toxic deluges/sweepers. I don't like that wasteland stops the combo dead. I don't like that Karakas stops the combo dead. And I don't like how dead Dark Depths is by itself--and no, the one time I've made a 20/20 manually does not count as "its not always dead" because that was a fluke.

What board states does your deck get into? What helps those board states? Does your deck usually need help when it gets to those board states? It is incorrect to assume that one is either better or worse that the other.

[Rek315]

Newer maverick player here. I was very intrigued by the punishing fire version. So what's the meta where you want to play finishing fire over the more traditional GWb versions of the deck? Also is there a list where you would play Thalia with punishing fire or is that too greedy?

[Stuhl]

...The main gain with Courser was that it had four toughness and life gain....


Well, you forgot another very important issue: The "Lantern" effect. Playing with your top card revealed gives you a lot of library manipulation with a KotR/fetch lands. You can shuffle away cards you definitely don't need which is huge in a creature deck in which you just draw random cards usually.



So the real question you have to ask is not about which card is better, the real question you should have is *why* are you playing the trump card in that slot at all? What game states are you regularly pushed into/play into? What trump card best maximizes your chance to win assuming your habits/opponents regularly puts you in the types of positions you normally end up in?


Thant's correct. I, personally, often find myself in stalled board states in which the board is crowded on the ground and no attacks are worth it on either side. That happens regularly against Merfolk, Elves, Eldrazi, Nic Fit. These are also the MUs in which Scryb Ranger is at its best with an equipment in the air. Playing against TNN also is not funny, except you can win one turn earlier with a 20/20 flying token. It's all about evasion.

Of course, DD is a dead card on its own, but... There will always be cards like this. You can not build a tool box deck without accepting some "dead draws". It's like the Dryad Arbor in your opening hand problem. You don't want this, but you have to accept it (and, concerning one offs, it's unlikely of course). So, I'm not scared of a dead top deck if it happens 1 time in 500 games. In general, I don't often get into classic top deck games these days. And, if you just land DD in the middle of the game, your opponents are always scared that you could just topdeck the other part. Whenever I play DD from my hand without even being close to assemble the combo it gets Wastelanded if possible. In a lot of cases this results in a tempo advantage for me.


Newer maverick player here. I was very intrigued by the punishing fire version. So what's the meta where you want to play finishing fire over the more traditional GWb versions of the deck? Also is there a list where you would play Thalia with punishing fire or is that too greedy?

Well, in a PF list you definitely can not play Thalia, I'd say. It is very clunky. That's also the reason why I don't like PF versions. For me Thalia is somewhat a core of a Maverick deck. PF lists are definitely weaker against combo decks but stronger against stuff like elves. I don't know how it is with Delver decks, probably it's somewhat even but PFire is definitely pretty useless against Miracles, the deck you want/need to beat :P. Here Thalia shines even if it's just in the early game.

[Seraphix]

...


Well, in a PF list you definitely can not play Thalia, I'd say. It is very clunky. That's also the reason why I don't like PF versions. For me Thalia is somewhat a core of a Maverick deck. PF lists are definitely weaker against combo decks but stronger against stuff like elves. I don't know how it is with Delver decks, probably it's somewhat even but PFire is definitely pretty useless against Miracles, the deck you want/need to beat :P. Here Thalia shines even if it's just in the early game.

You can still play Thalia in a list with Punishing Fire. There are very few matchups where you want both to be in your deck post-board. You just choose which one to play main and switch it out for the other in the appropriate matchups.

I think Punishing Fire is far from useless against Miracles. It provides an angle of attack that's harder for them to interact with than our typical gameplan, which plays right into Plow-Snap-Plow and Terminus. It pressures Jace, their life total, and kills all their creatures. I've won countless games against Miracles after having my board decimated by doing the last few points of damage with Fire. Its very bad against Counter-Top floating a 2, but even then can be useful as a test spell to try and resolve something through the lock.

[Claymore]

Yes, as a Jund/Aggro Loam/Jund Depths player, Punishing Fire is far from dead in the Miracles matchup. It's a persistent answer to Jace and can imitate a win condition. It can also machine gun down Angel tokens, and of course acts as a pressure to Mentor.

I mostly keep it in for Jace.

[Thunderknight]

I'm getting ready for the EE4 tournament this Saturday. Has anyone tried running Sylvan Safekeeper MB? It seems really really nuts with the pairing of Titania. It also the GSZ version of MoM. I also don't see Dark Confidant, is there a reason why that is case?
.

[sdematt]

I'm getting ready for the EE4 tournament this Saturday. Has anyone tried running Sylvan Safekeeper MB? It seems really really nuts with the pairing of Titania. It also the GSZ version of MoM. I also don't see Dark Confidant, is there a reason why that is case?
.

Safekeeper is excellent, I've always enjoyed him.

Confidant just generally isn't needed, and you don't have the slots.

-Matt

[calcymon]

I'm getting ready for the EE4 tournament this Saturday. Has anyone tried running Sylvan Safekeeper MB? It seems really really nuts with the pairing of Titania. It also the GSZ version of MoM. I also don't see Dark Confidant, is there a reason why that is case?
.


Sylvan Safekeeper main deck is really strong, u can win many matchups, vs ANT with gaddock or thalia in play, vs miracle with gaddock, vs burn is istant win. good vs D&T since it has only 4 removal
its really a wonderfull piece to zenith for (u can also win vs combo by sacrificing all lands and attacking with KoR, easy 10 damage turn




Dark Confidant is a strong card but : 1- u need always to play it early game and not always u have black mana early game in maverick, first 2 lands maybe wastes-karakas-cradle-forest-plain and not fetches
2- a bad card to draw mid game.

I played with them into maverick, they are really good vs miracle/d&t/control but bad vs other decks, better play more green creatures

[Thunderknight]

This is my deck that I've came up with. I'll most likely run this deck at EE4. I would appericate the feedback

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Tharben
3 Mother of Rune
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasli Pridemage
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Titania, Protector of Agroth
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

4 GSZ
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decays
1 Life from the Loam

1 Garruk Rentless
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library

4 Windswepth Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wastelands
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Dryad Abor

SB:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasli Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Engineering Plaque
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Surgical Extraction
1 (insert flex spot here)

My flex spots are the following cards depending on the size of the event, the location of the event, and what's the field looking like.

Sylvan Library (Miracles)
Bojika Bog (dredge)
Sigarda, Host of herons (Shardless)
Tesbo's Web (Lands)
Glissa, The Traitor (Eldarzi)

[Mapson]

Hi friend. For E.E you want to be prepared for miracles and lands.

[Thunderknight]

Hi friend. For E.E you want to be prepared for miracles and lands.

I'm leaning towards that to be the case. Maverick has a solid game plan with Miracles (soft lock with Gaddock teeg + MoM or Keeper), keep them off Jace. But my problem is trying to not over-extend the board state. having a Knight or Tireless Tracker will most of the time games.

Oh I forgot to add to the flexspot Hallowed Moonlight (for Storm, Miracles, Lands, DnT, SnS, SnT, Eleves, etc).

[sdematt]

I'm leaning towards that to be the case. Maverick has a solid game plan with Miracles (soft lock with Gaddock teeg + MoM or Keeper), keep them off Jace. But my problem is trying to not over-extend the board state. having a Knight or Tireless Tracker will most of the time games.

Oh I forgot to add to the flexspot Hallowed Moonlight (for Storm, Miracles, Lands, DnT, SnS, SnT, Eleves, etc).

I feel like Id always want 4 Momma. I may personally hedge on 3/2 DRS/Noble to ensure acceleration against the other DRS deck (dont want to get greased too often).

Id personally play 2 sylvans main and put the garruk in the board.

My board would likely look like :

2 Needle
1 Bog
2 ZP
3 Thoughtseize
1 Teeg
2 Canonist
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Armageddon
1 Sigarda

[Thunderknight]

I feel like Id always want 4 Momma. I may personally hedge on 3/2 DRS/Noble to ensure acceleration against the other DRS deck (dont want to get greased too often).

Id personally play 2 sylvans main and put the garruk in the board.

My board would likely look like :

2 Needle
1 Bog
2 ZP
3 Thoughtseize
1 Teeg
2 Canonist
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Armageddon
1 Sigarda

2 Armageddons? That sounds very greedy but effective netherless.

[sdematt]

2 Armageddons? That sounds very greedy but effective netherless.

Good against Drazi and Miracles. Can't argue.

[sanderanders]

My current list, been testing it a lot and it seems to hold ground:

3 Deathrite Shaman (only 3, sometimes it removes to much, so 2 Nobles, 3 Deathrites)
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch (sometimes you get manascrewed because KOTR, Titiana, plus i like the extra exalted trigger)
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger (why not?)
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (with 4 too often dead draw)
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth (couple of dorks + cradle + gsz)

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library

1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs (8 fetches sometimes 1 too much, i prefer 3 basics and needed spot for Maze)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith (i love this card, also in combo with KOTR, attack, damage, untap, tap)
1 Dryad Arbor

SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Armageddon (i like)
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Krosan Grip (board in versus sensei's d top)
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution

Feedback welcome. I will run this at some events soon.

[Thunderknight]

My current list, been testing it a lot and it seems to hold ground:

3 Deathrite Shaman (only 3, sometimes it removes to much, so 2 Nobles, 3 Deathrites)
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch (sometimes you get manascrewed because KOTR, Titiana, plus i like the extra exalted trigger)
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger (why not?)
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (with 4 too often dead draw)
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth (couple of dorks + cradle + gsz)

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library

1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs (8 fetches sometimes 1 too much, i prefer 3 basics and needed spot for Maze)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith (i love this card, also in combo with KOTR, attack, damage, untap, tap)
1 Dryad Arbor

SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Armageddon (i like)
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Krosan Grip (board in versus sensei's d top)
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution

Feedback welcome. I will run this at some events soon.


We're running very similar list however my list is more synergistic with Titania's and maximizes the potential of dropping 5/3s

4 KoTR
3 DRS
3 Thalia (running 4 is not needed)
3 Mom
2 Pridemages
2 SFM
2 Nobles
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper (This card will win against Miracles, DnT, and any spot removal they have. It's also good because you can just one-shot Knight them lethal. It can be GSZ, and also it maximizes Titania's effect)
1 Titania (Faster Clock than Sigarda)
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ooze

4 GSZ
3 STP
2 Abrupt Decays

1 Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Windswepth Health
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of souls (There's a lot of miracles in my meta)
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

SB: Now this is where I start to wander off.

3 Thoughtseize
2 Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Library
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hallowed Moonlight (Catnip + Catches all them tokens)

[sanderanders]

We're running very similar list however my list is more synergistic with Titania's and maximizes the potential of dropping 5/3s

4 KoTR
3 DRS
3 Thalia (running 4 is not needed)
3 Mom
2 Pridemages
2 SFM
2 Nobles
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper (This card will win against Miracles, DnT, and any spot removal they have. It's also good because you can just one-shot Knight them lethal. It can be GSZ, and also it maximizes Titania's effect)
1 Titania (Faster Clock than Sigarda)
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ooze

4 GSZ
3 STP
2 Abrupt Decays

1 Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Windswepth Health
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of souls (There's a lot of miracles in my meta)
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

SB: Now this is where I start to wander off.

3 Thoughtseize
2 Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Library
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hallowed Moonlight (Catnip + Catches all them tokens)

To be complete:
Spells:
-1 Mother of Runes
-1 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper
+1 Garruk Relentless
Lands:
-1 Maze of Ith
-1 Verdant Catacombs
-1 horizon Canopy (agree)
+1 Wooded Foothills
+1 Bayou
+1 Cavern of Souls


I think sideboardng is more of a local meta subject. Pretty much the same build, don't you agree? I will test Safekeeper, but i don't know if i can let go the 4th Mother of Runes... Sigh...i wish 62 was the standard... ;-)

[Jimbrewersbro]

Does anyone else really like the new Thalia to reinvigorate Maverick? Seems like it should have no problem coming down turn two. The question is what do we take out?

[Megadeus]

Does anyone else really like the new Thalia to reinvigorate Maverick? Seems like it should have no problem coming down turn two. The question is what do we take out?

That's the tough question. You probably skim your stone forge package if you play it. Maybe shave a knight? Have your dudes look like:

5 Mana Dorks (plus 4 green sun)
4 Mom
3 Thalia , GoT
3 Kotr
3 New Thalia
1 Scooze
1 Teeg

Whatever other random bullets you run?

[Jimbrewersbro]

That's the tough question. You probably skim your stone forge package if you play it. Maybe shave a knight? Have your dudes look like:

5 Mana Dorks (plus 4 green sun)
4 Mom
3 Thalia , GoT
3 Kotr
3 New Thalia
1 Scooze
1 Teeg

Whatever other random bullets you run?

Would you still run any equiptment with out Stoneforge. I like the idea, but I feel like I still want a Jitte, and SOFI.

[sdematt]

Or just run 2 Jitte like the old old days

[Luthiereisfun]

Or just run 2 Jitte like the old old days

Back when your opponent played a jitte so you would play jitte to blow up their jitte but want a second jitte for yourself

[Megadeus]

Yeah I would keep the weapons, maybe cut a sword if you run two, and completely cut stone forge for thalia.

[calcymon]

Does anyone else really like the new Thalia to reinvigorate Maverick? Seems like it should have no problem coming down turn two. The question is what do we take out?

maybe side, vs d&t having many legends its really useless
its good vs lands combo and eldrazi, but still not green, so, maaybe u will never play her main deck, u cant have more monowhite creatures when u need the best combination for zenith


i saw this side up-posted:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Library
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hallowed Moonlight (Catnip + Catches all them tokens)

i dont like it, in a 0 cantrip deck u cant play 1 card side like surgical or pithing needle or choke , they are cards that u need 2x or u will never see it


i prefer always:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay (2 min deck, so u can play with 0 swords vs miracle)
2-3 Surgical Extraction
1-2 green creture zenitable : gaddock/qasali/reclamation sage

[Megadeus]

I really like the new White Charm thing with super entwine. I think it's a solid 1-3 of in this deck. Good against delver match up, burn, true name, removal. I like it even as a simply combat trick

[Octopusman]

Hello,

My girlfriend is putting together the list below that was piloted to 6th @ SCG Invitational Qualifier by Cas Watson:

Creatures (25)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Dryad Arbor

Lands (23)
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths

Spells (12)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith


Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Choke
2 Rest in Peace
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Armageddon
3 Thoughtseize


I will probably play this from time to time as well and have been reading up on Maverick despite having played against it a million times.
I have experience playing Sylvan Plug which can have a few similar themes.

I'm aware that there seem to be two camps now. Cradle vs Dark Depths.
I can see how Cradle works better with Tireless Tracker and I can see how Courser may be better with Dark Depths. This list makes us both hot and am super excited about it.

Aside from the typical "Maze KotR at end of combat" and eot Dark Depths/Stage fetching and activating, I would appreciate any advanced quick tips.

The board seems pretty straight forward. Do I bring in Thoughtseize vs. Miracles? Is there anything that Geddon is good against besides Miracles and Eldrazi? Are there any Scryb Ranger tricks that may not be obvious aside from just getting additional KotR activations, having mom save herself, and mana ramp with dorks?

If I were to try to squeeze Sylvan Safekeeper into this list, suggestions on what to cut? 1 Thalia?

Sorry for the general questions and I will read more of the thread but looking to get up to speed quickly.



Thanks,

[jdc5011]

Hello,

My girlfriend is putting together the list below that was piloted to 6th @ SCG Invitational Qualifier by Cas Watson:

Creatures (25)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Dryad Arbor

Lands (23)
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths

Spells (12)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith


Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Choke
2 Rest in Peace
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Armageddon
3 Thoughtseize


I will probably play this from time to time as well and have been reading up on Maverick despite having played against it a million times.
I have experience playing Sylvan Plug which can have a few similar themes.

I'm aware that there seem to be two camps now. Cradle vs Dark Depths.
I can see how Cradle works better with Tireless Tracker and I can see how Courser may be better with Dark Depths. This list makes us both hot and am super excited about it.

Aside from the typical "Maze KotR at end of combat" and eot Dark Depths/Stage fetching and activating, I would appreciate any advanced quick tips.

The board seems pretty straight forward. Do I bring in Thoughtseize vs. Miracles? Is there anything that Geddon is good against besides Miracles and Eldrazi? Are there any Scryb Ranger tricks that may not be obvious aside from just getting additional KotR activations, having mom save herself, and mana ramp with dorks?

If I were to try to squeeze Sylvan Safekeeper into this list, suggestions on what to cut? 1 Thalia?

Sorry for the general questions and I will read more of the thread but looking to get up to speed quickly.



Thanks,

My opinion is that the 4 DRS and 2 Nobles is too many dorks (even without Cradle). I run the DD combo and like 4 DRS, 1 Noble. 4 Thalias is too many as she can often be a PIA top deck with one in play. I like 3. I would never roll out without 4 mothers honestly. I personally enjoy a single main deck library. I don't like RIP in the SB at all since I would never bring out knight, especially with the DD combo. DRS and scooze should hold out against most gy based decks plus they're tutorable with GSZ. I do run a SB bojuka bog since it can be a nifty little gotcha with an active Knight. 2 containment priests seems kinda meh. I still run 1 in my SB but I don't think i've seen many lists that even run that anymore. You have all sorts of game against reanimate between scooze and DRS and for sneak and show you kinda just have to pray you have karakas at the right time. I run 8 fetches right now (24 lands including dryad arbor) but I'm not sure it's the right build right now. I want to try out 7. Also, I like 2 Bayou 1 scrubland split personally.

TLDR: -1 thalia, -1 noble, +1 mom and you're left with room for Safekeeper if you want, although I would play a library personally.

As far as tips, DRS works really well as a deter ant to any sort of GY shenanigans your opponent wants to pull. Make sure you leave up mana (and the right colors) for him if at all possible.

Watch out when fetching plains and make sure you don't get blown out by Massacre. (Happened to me against reanimate last night so it's fresh in my mind)

Fetching a dryad arbor at EOT is always a good way to get around the summoning sickness and can be a nice surprise blocker.

Finally, don't listen to anything I say because it's probably wrong lol.

[ET1]

Hello everyone,

Long time follower of the thread, first time poster. I just finished building maverick and just played my first legacy tournament last week. Went 3-0-1 for 3rd place beating mono white prison, grixis delver, and shardless BUG and drawing with Miracles (Surprise!). How does everyone board against miracles? It was the only match where I didn't quite feel confident in how I boarded.

My current sideboard (likely soon to change) is:

3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Life from the Loam
1 Containment Priest
2 Surgical
2 Pithing Needle
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Ethersworn Canonist

Maindeck is pretty stock dark depths version. I believe I boarded in the pridemage, needles, and choke. I know i boarded out atleast one wasteland and swords to plowshares. Should i be boarding out all of my stp's?

Otherwise I'm incredibly stoked to be playing legacy and look forward to contributing to the discussion.

Also as a side note I'm currently playing tarmogoyf in my one main deck flex spot and it thus far seems really good.

[ThediscoPower]

We're running very similar list however my list is more synergistic with Titania's and maximizes the potential of dropping 5/3s

4 KoTR
3 DRS
3 Thalia (running 4 is not needed)
3 Mom
2 Pridemages
2 SFM
2 Nobles
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper (This card will win against Miracles, DnT, and any spot removal they have. It's also good because you can just one-shot Knight them lethal. It can be GSZ, and also it maximizes Titania's effect)
1 Titania (Faster Clock than Sigarda)
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ooze

4 GSZ
3 STP
2 Abrupt Decays

1 Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Windswepth Health
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of souls (There's a lot of miracles in my meta)
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

SB: Now this is where I start to wander off.

3 Thoughtseize
2 Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Library
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Armageddon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hallowed Moonlight (Catnip + Catches all them tokens)

I am interested into hearing about Titania actually. How do you like her, versus sigarda? I am looking for a top end creature for my list as I prepare for scg worcester, and she is on my short list right now, however I have never played her, so before testing her next week, I would like to hear comments from someone who played her in the past.

Other existential questions include 4 mom vs 3 mom/1 safekeeper , 3 vs 4 thalias, 3 stoneforge + jitte-batterskull vs 2 stoneforge + jitte - SoFaI. I haven't figured out exactly what I find optimal so far. I'll try to test as much as I can of these combination of cards in the coming weeks, online mostly, but some advice here would be appreciated, I feel somewhat lost here, for now.

For those interested, this is where i'm at so far:

4 KoTR
3 DRS
3 Thalia
4 Mom
1 Pridemage
2 SFM
1 noble
1 bird of paradise
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Titania / glissa the traitor (really good against eldrazis)/tarmogoyf (sometimes I wished I had a cheap beatstick that can also be a wall. It's very low on my shortlist tho)/sigarda /Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ooze

4 GSZ
4 STP
2 Abrupt Decays

1 Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Windswepth Health
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 marsh flats
1 horizon canopy
4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

Side:

4 Thoughtseize
2 Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Armageddon
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Surgical Extraction
1 garruck relentless

Recently took out bitterblossom from the side, as when it was a good card, it ended up not matching well against monastery mentor when I could not have it soon enough. Opted to go full armageddon instead...



Hello everyone,

Long time follower of the thread, first time poster. I just finished building maverick and just played my first legacy tournament last week. Went 3-0-1 for 3rd place beating mono white prison, grixis delver, and shardless BUG and drawing with Miracles (Surprise!). How does everyone board against miracles? It was the only match where I didn't quite feel confident in how I boarded.


To go in general, I take out all my swords and usually a knight (that might be wrong tho, and taking out a wasteland might be a better idea here. Before I had 3 equipments so I would take out jitte too, but with only 2, I like to keep both in) and enter my grindy cards (decay, teeg, garruck, geddon). The reason I take all my swords out is because usually 3 decay after board will do their job better IMO. And in any cases, if mentor hits with a bunch of mana open, it's usually game over anyways.

[Seraphix]

Does anyone think the prevalence of Eldrazi in large, open metas necessitates the inclusion of Batterskull in the Equipment package? I understand the matchup is supposed to be solid for us but I don't have enough experience with it yet to make this judgment myself.

[TheoryCraft]

Does anyone else really like the new Thalia to reinvigorate Maverick? Seems like it should have no problem coming down turn two. The question is what do we take out?

Seems like the new Thalia has serious potential - playtesting required, of course. As previously pointed out, 2 cmc vs. 3 cmc does make a noticeable difference, however, with our stock 5 mana dork list (4:1 or 3:2 DRS:Noble) she should be playable T2 fairly consistently. With this in mind, that begs the question, should we be looking more at running a 3:2 split instead of the more common 4:1 mana dork split to ensure she sticks on the board more consistently?

Also, what kind of split of Thalias are people considering? I'm thinking 3:2 of the old Thalia and new Thalia to start. (I typically run a list of 4 Thalia, GoT.) I know they do not overlap due to the creature legendary rule, but there's only so much space in the deck and so I'm trying to parse out the correct numbers.

One other question I have as well: In light of Eldrazi's significant Legacy presence/success, are people still secure with running 4 Mother of Runes and 0 Sylvan Safekeeper? Is it time to consider running a 3:1 split? Safekeeper essentially acts as Mother of Runes in that MU, particularly with respect to the displacer eldrazi guy.

[sdematt]

Seems like the new Thalia has serious potential - playtesting required, of course. As previously pointed out, 2 cmc vs. 3 cmc does make a noticeable difference, however, with our stock 5 mana dork list (4:1 or 3:2 DRS:Noble) she should be playable T2 fairly consistently. With this in mind, that begs the question, should we be looking more at running a 3:2 split instead of the more common 4:1 mana dork split to ensure she sticks on the board more consistently?

Also, what kind of split of Thalias are people considering? I'm thinking 3:2 of the old Thalia and new Thalia to start. (I typically run a list of 4 Thalia, GoT.) I know they do not overlap due to the creature legendary rule, but there's only so much space in the deck and so I'm trying to parse out the correct numbers.

One other question I have as well: In light of Eldrazi's significant Legacy presence/success, are people still secure with running 4 Mother of Runes and 0 Sylvan Safekeeper? Is it time to consider running a 3:1 split? Safekeeper essentially acts as Mother of Runes in that MU, particularly with respect to the displacer eldrazi guy.

I think a 3/3 split of the old and new Thalia is ballbusting. I would always run 4/1 split of protections, its one of the best things this deck can do.

[Thunderknight]

Any thoughts about the new Pod card

Eldritch Evolution (1GG) Rare

Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Eldritch Evolution, sacrifice a creature.

Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less, where X is 2 plus the sacrificed creature's converted mana cost. Put that card onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. Exile Eldritch Evolution.

I know that there are better card choices to play (GSZ, Pod, NO). The reason why I'm bringing this up is because the "X = 2+ CMC of sac creature" clause.
An example would be

T1 Noble or DRS
T2 Evolve into Knight
T3 Evolve into Sigarda....

What do yall think?

[TheoryCraft]

Any thoughts about the new Pod card

Eldritch Evolution (1GG) Rare

Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast Eldritch Evolution, sacrifice a creature.

Search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less, where X is 2 plus the sacrificed creature's converted mana cost. Put that card onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. Exile Eldritch Evolution.

I know that there are better card choices to play (GSZ, Pod, NO). The reason why I'm bringing this up is because the "X = 2+ CMC of sac creature" clause.
An example would be

T1 Noble or DRS
T2 Evolve into Knight
T3 Evolve into Sigarda....

What do yall think?
Honestly, it is card disadvantage and worse than GSZ other than for fetching non-green creatures, which isn't that significant in our deck, therefore I don't see it being playable. The biggest drawback is the "sacrifice a creature" part as an additional cost. Counterspells like FoW, Daze, and Spell Pierce make it sad.

[Megadeus]

Got top 4 in one of my local stores Monthly legacy event. I think there was around 30 or so. List:

4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Titania, Priestess of Aragoth

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Ajani Vengeant

2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
1 Sudden Shock
3 Elecktrickery
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Choke
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Round 1: Daretti Stax
Game 1: I get a pretty solid start and he gets a tangle wire down but I have a triple wasteland hand and he can't keep up.
game 2: I pretty much have it all and get a SoFaI on a man and he has Crucible going but I am able to attack Daretti and then helix him dead with Ajani to turn off his card advantage engine and I have green sun for his Forgemaster and kill him.

1-0

Round 2: White Eldrazi
Game 1: He gets a Jitte and I'm wasting his resources with Knight but he gets jitte big. Eventually I get Ajani to keep his Endless one tapped and he has to move his Jitte over so I helix it and Jitte gets to 5. I'm at 4 and attack him to 2 with my KOTR with 2 lands. He attacks with his Thought Knot and I flash in Scryb to untap knight, block, and kill him.
Game 2: He gets a pretty decent draw and crushes me because I don't see any big dudes.
Game 3: more of the same, I dont see a single green sun and his draw isn't really special, I just dont have any dudes that can contend.

1-1

Round 3: Shardless BUG
Game 1: I'm on the play and go Dryad Arbor off of Green Sun, he plays Deathrite. I play Scavenging Ooze with mana open. He Thoughtseizes me but I guess he doesnt have removal and Scooze takes over the game while I assemble Voltron on a Scryb Ranger with both Swords.
Game 2: He plays trop and passes. I play a dork and he has a T2 Scooze. I waste his green source and continue to waste him thanks to knight while I also have Thalia and Mother out after a few turns and eventually he stops playing lands and succumbs.

2-1

Round 4: Manaless Dredge
I know what he's on so I know what I need to mull to.
Game 1: I have a T2 Thalia and mana dorks but nothing else. Eventually I find a Jitte and get it going but by this time he gets plenty of bridge triggers. I jitte one of my guys to get rid of bridges, but I draw nothing but lands for the rest of the game and I die to Zombies. Fucking Misery.
Game 2: I take the draw and have a Turn 2 Scavenging ooze with cradle for mana. He's never in the game.
Game 3: I mull to 5, keep something like Thalia, Noble Hierarch, 2x Green Sun, Knight. I scry and see a forest. So I open by passing to him since I'm on the play. Get a turn 2 Dork into turn 3 Thalia. I have to green sun for more dorks because I'm briking on lands but I eventually get Scavengin Ooze with Cradle off of Knight and take over the game.

3-1

Round 5: Reanimator
It's nedleeds and I know what he's on.
Game 1: I keep a 1 land hand with Noble, 2x Green Sun, Knight, 2x Swords to plowshares I think? I have to green sun for a 2nd Hierarch on turn 2 and he reanimates Elesh Norn and I STP it but he wraths my board and I'm back to 1 land. Eventually I draw a 2nd, and third and he doesn't have much action whil I get Scooze off of my 2nd Green Sun.
Game 2: I keep an awkward one on the draw. Plains, Karakas, Cradle, Stoneforge, Knight, Knight Green Sun I think. He makes a turn 2 Griselbrand and I karakas it. I draw Mom and forget to play cradle to make Green. fortunately he has to reshape his hand. I draw Faerie macabre off of the top and he goes for entomb Grave Titan into Exhume and I blow him out exiling his 2 dudes and getting back the Macabre. I attack him to 1 next turn and draw another macabre off the top just in case.

4-1 into top 8 as the high seed.

Top 8: UG 12 Post
Game 1: I think he was kind of on a budget. He had a couple Breeding Pools and no candles I believe. He gets a Needle on Wasteland on turn 1 but he doesn't find any post lands and I SoFaI up a KOTR and kill him quickly.
Game 2: He gets triple Maze of Ith (vesuva copying) and I try to Waste him with Knight and he has crop rotation twice to save posts. He needles Knight and I'm not able to get much damage through, but I get Ajani down, keep his cloudpost tapped and Swords his primeval titan (fetched vesuva copying maze and glimmerpost :eyebrow: )and I pridemage needle, waste him off of Cloudposts and Ajani Ultimate him and kill him. God damn Ajani is so fucking sick.

Top 4: Death and Taxes
Game 1: He assembles Batterskull with sword and Jitte equipped and my Knight doesnt stand a chance against active Displacer.
Game 2: he gets a vial and no second lands, but I dont find pridemage to punish him and the vial lets him go nutty despite him having a Containment priest. I sudden shock in response to an equip, but he has another land to equip to Revoker and then finds a flickerwisp for my Mom on SofaI and kills it with Revoker and SoFaI and I die.

Rough beats in top 4. Not sure how the match up is. I feel like Elecktrickery is good, but maybe not as good as I think since Displacer and Serra Avenger don't get killed by it, and same with Sudden Shock. Maybe just straight up Bolt would be better. Overall the deck felt better than it did thursday. I like the fact that it essentially can't lose to combo. Death and Taxes feels like an oddly bad match up. Eldrazi is probably not terrible, I just drew poorly I think. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

[ricste88]

Hi everybody, after 2 years playing infect I decided tu turn back to my favourite deck: Maverick. I was in Prague for the GP and I saw many GW at day2 but all of them were raped by Miracle as usual. I'm building a list that could win against miracle...has anybody of you ever considered Pack Rat as a menace? is not fast but if u solve one of them with 3 mana open, they are forced to find a terminus (plowshare is useless, because u can put a copy into play) to kill it and even if u have many rats it will be a 1×1. U think that a SB with pack rat is too excessive? Any impression? Thank you

[ET1]

Small tournament report from my LGS's weekly legacy night. Went 3-1 beating reanimator, death and taxes, and lands. Lost to Esper Deathblade.

Round 1: 2-1 vs Reanimator

Thought he was on storm as that is what he played last week, kept a slightly slowish hand with double thalia, sylvan library, a couple of lands and some other two drop. He also kept a slowish hand, and I topdecked a deathrite and then at some point also got out a scavenging ooze. Game 2 he had triple daze which matched up pretty nicely against my turn 1 thoughtseize into turn two ooze, into turn 3 knight. Afterwards I pretty much topdecked lands, and he eventually got to three mana to cast show and tell into inkwell leviathan. Game three I was able to get both deathrite and ooze out, I misplayed by not activating ooze in response to a pithing needle which he then followed up with a massacre, I still had a deathrite in hand though and had enough gas to power it out.

-1 Teeg
-4 Mom
-1 Jitte
-1 Stoneforge

+2 Surgical
+1 Pithing Needle
+3 Thoughtseize
+1 Containment Priest

Round 2: 0-1-1 vs Esper Deathblade

Made lots of mistakes in our games, but the gist of game one was getting beat down by a true name nemesis with a jitte. Game 2 was quite grindy and I still made several mistakes, if I had drawn a third land I think I would've more firmly had that game. Game two ended with us swinging back and forth with my deathrite equipped with a sword of light and shadow and him with a batterskull as well as a rest in peace in play and a pithing needle naming my sword of fire and ice, which was also in play.

Not 100% sure what i boarded, and i definitely don't feel like I'm boarding correctly.

-1 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Teeg
-1 Hierarch
-1 Jitte
- something else?

+1 Garruk Relentless
+2 Zealous Persecution
+1 Pridemage
+something else? maybe a needle?

Round 3: 2-0 vs Death and Taxes

Pretty straightforward lopsided games that were both won off of knights. Game one I wasted his port and sea gate wreckage, stranding him with two lands and a fist full of three drops. Game 2 he dumped his hand to meet my zealous persecution.

-1 Teeg
-4 Thalia
-1 Ooze

+1 Pridemage
+2 Z. Persecution
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Containment Priest

Round 4: 2-0 vs Lands

Definitely thought this match up would be somewhat unfavorable, but it felt pretty good. Knights won both games tutoring wastelands to destroy maze of iths. Game 2 I forgot that marit lage was legendary so i tapped my karakas while leaving up scrubland for a swords on his possible marit lage. Plowed his marit lage, used a pridemage to destroy a mox, used knight to waste him down to just one land while having a deathrite and ooze in play. Beat him down with two 7/7 knights, an ooze, and a thalia.

-1 Jitte
-1 Teeg
-2 Thalia

+2 surgical extraction
+2 Pithing Needle


Overall went 3-1 for fourth place. Definitely made some dumb mistakes, and probably many bad board decisions. How does everyone else board against Deathblade? Would really like help in that match up as its one of the few that doesn't feel too straightforward.

[ET1]

Congrats to the Maverick player that got 11th at the SCG open. They piloted punishing maverick with the dark depths combo, thought their deck looked interesting.

Here's the list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=105138

What are people's thoughts on punishing maverick versus dark maverick? Which match-ups or what types of decks is punishing maverick better against?

[Seraphix]

Congrats to the Maverick player that got 11th at the SCG open. They piloted punishing maverick with the dark depths combo, thought their deck looked interesting.

Here's the list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=105138

What are people's thoughts on punishing maverick versus dark maverick? Which match-ups or what types of decks is punishing maverick better against?

Thanks, this was me.

Reposting list for the lazy:

3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Knight of the Reliquary

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Punishing Fire
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull

4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Savannah
2x Taiga
1x Plateau
1x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
3x Wasteland
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Dark Depths

SB: 1x Winter Orb
SB: 1x Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1x Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1x Reclamation Sage
SB: 1x Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1x Crop Rotation
SB: 1x Krosan Grip
SB: 2x Surgical Extraction
SB: 1x Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1x Fiery Justice
SB: 1x Bojuka Bog


Matchups were as follows:

Canadian Thresh (2-1)
Merfolk (2-1)
RG Lands (2-0)
Eldrazi (2-0)
UB Reanimator (2-0)
Grixis Delver (2-0)
Death & Taxes (2-0)
Dredge (2-1)
Shardless BUG (1-1)
Eldrazi (1-1)
RG Lands (1-2)
BR Reanimator (2-1)
UG Infect (1-2)
UG Infect (2-1)
Preordain Miracles (2-1)
Final Record: 11-2-2

After throwing various configurations against the wall over the past few months I think I came up with a decent list. Anyone else working on this version? I get the impression almost all Maverick players these days are on GWb.

Edit: mistyped one match result last night.

[Megadeus]

Cool. I'm on a non punishing red list because I don't have Groves. Any thoughts on an ETutor in the sideboard since you have a few 1-ofs? Does lack of Thalia feel bad in the meta right now main board? In combo matches do you feel like you're just auto scooping to game 2? Would you consider new Thalia when she comes out? How fucking sick is fiery justice? Will little Johnny get out of the well?

[sdematt]

Thanks, this was me.

Reposting list for the lazy:

3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Knight of the Reliquary

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Punishing Fire
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull

4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Savannah
2x Taiga
1x Plateau
1x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
3x Wasteland
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Dark Depths

SB: 1x Winter Orb
SB: 1x Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1x Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1x Reclamation Sage
SB: 1x Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1x Crop Rotation
SB: 1x Krosan Grip
SB: 2x Surgical Extraction
SB: 1x Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1x Fiery Justice
SB: 1x Bojuka Bog


Matchups were as follows:

Canadian Thresh (2-1)
Merfolk (2-1)
RG Lands (2-0)
Eldrazi (2-0)
UB Reanimator (2-0)
Grixis Delver (2-0)
Death & Taxes (2-0)
Dredge (2-1)
Shardless BUG (2-1)
Eldrazi (1-1)
RG Lands (1-2)
BR Reanimator (2-1)
UG Infect (1-2)
UG Infect (2-1)
Preordain Miracles (2-1)
Final Record: 11-2-2

After throwing various configurations against the wall over the past few months I think I came up with a decent list. Anyone else working on this version? I get the impression almost all Maverick players these days are on GWb.

Please post a photo of the decklist in question, otherwise, how can I trust you? Was the BOP beta?

[sanderanders]

First of all: congrats Meritt. Do you have your own customized 20/20 Meritt Lage token already? :tongue: I wondered how you feel about playing without Abrupt Decays.

Anyway, some good Maverick content showed up last week on Youtube on Legacy's Allure, it is Ep. 17, Maverick with Tom Herzog , for those who missed it: https://youtu.be/CHzeWOi3yiE

[Seraphix]

Please post a photo of the decklist in question, otherwise, how can I trust you? Was the BOP beta?

My Birds are pretty shameful tbh.

http://i.imgur.com/OgsBGQy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8P4HVXY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WVzvYI6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/udG66Vo.jpg


Cool. I'm on a non punishing red list because I don't have Groves. Any thoughts on an ETutor in the sideboard since you have a few 1-ofs? Does lack of Thalia feel bad in the meta right now main board? In combo matches do you feel like you're just auto scooping to game 2? Would you consider new Thalia when she comes out? How fucking sick is fiery justice? Will little Johnny get out of the well?

Your list is sweet!

I sometimes play an E-Tutor package, but if I'm playing Dark Depths I go with Crop Rotation instead. There isn't room in the sideboard for both in this version. I do like E-Tutor though.

Game 1 against combo decks is definitely a lot harder without Thalia, but its definitely not an auto-loss and you still win some of them.

Fiery Justice might be kind of iffy but its a pet card. I cast it once this weekend to blow up a Mentor and Snapcaster Mage, but goofed on the damage distribution and could have safely killed a Monk too.

Not sure about New Thalia, but if she had a home in Maverick I have to think it would be in GWb, not Punishing.


First of all: congrats Meritt. Do you have your own customized 20/20 Meritt Lage token already? :tongue: I wondered how you feel about playing without Abrupt Decays.

Anyway, some good Maverick content showed up last week on Youtube on Legacy's Allure, it is Ep. 17, Maverick with Tom Herzog , for those who missed it: https://youtu.be/CHzeWOi3yiE


http://i.imgur.com/eX7g1Cm.jpg

Yeah, the "custom" token was kind of a no-brainer as soon as I started playing this card.

Abrupt Decay is a great Magic card but I don't think there is enough Black mana to reliably play it in this version. I honestly haven't played Decay much in Maverick (even when I played GWb) so I can't really evaluate it in the context of the deck.

[menloe]

After throwing various configurations against the wall over the past few months I think I came up with a decent list. Anyone else working on this version? I get the impression almost all Maverick players these days are on GWb.

I agonized over which version to build for about a month. I ended up on Punishing Maverick after reading your blog and seeing Fabian Gorzgen do well with it. I have been looking forward to reading about your Worcester results. Grats on your awesome finish!

[sanderanders]

http://i.imgur.com/eX7g1Cm.jpg

Yeah, the "custom" token was kind of a no-brainer as soon as I started playing this card.

Abrupt Decay is a great Magic card but I don't think there is enough Black mana to reliably play it in this version. I honestly haven't played Decay much in Maverick (even when I played GWb) so I can't really evaluate it in the context of the deck.

Keep working on your drawing skills! ;-)

I never have issues to get the black mana, i play 1 BOP, 4 DRS, 1 Scrubland and 1 Bayou. I didn't realize mana was the issue, i thought you just didn't like Abrupt Decay too much.

[Seraphix]

I agonized over which version to build for about a month. I ended up on Punishing Maverick after reading your blog and seeing Fabian Gorzgen do well with it. I have been looking forward to reading about your Worcester results. Grats on your awesome finish!


Keep working on your drawing skills! ;-)

I never have issues to get the black mana, i play 1 BOP, 4 DRS, 1 Scrubland and 1 Bayou. I didn't realize mana was the issue, i thought you just didn't like Abrupt Decay too much.

To clarify one thing-I don't play a Punishing Fire version because I believe it to be "better" than GWb. I play it out of personal preference/playstyle. GWb has some notable advantages including better game 1 against combo, smoother manabase (and is also a much better Cradle deck, a card I think is very strong in Maverick), and access to discard and Zealous Persecution in the sideboard.

It should be possible to build a truly 4-color version (anyone remember the Punishing lists with Geist of Saint Traft?) but it sounds too greedy for me to try. If I look at my current manabase, dropping the basic Plains for a Scrubland and mixing up the fetches/mana dorks a little should be able to enable Black spells in the 75. Maybe throw in a copy of Loam to smooth things out. Again, I have never tried this.

[Svyelunite]

[Video/Podcast] Legacy's Allure - Ep. 17, Maverick with Tom Herzog

Hey everyone! New Legacy's Allure episode is available. This time we're talking Maverick and fighting the fair fight with Tom Herzog. This episode was really fun to record so we hope you enjoy it!

Webcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzeWOi3yiE
Podcast: http://shoutengine.com/LegacysAllure/maverick-with-tom-herzog-21347

As always, check it out on iTunes also!

[TheoryCraft]

Thanks for sharing the podcast/YouTube link. Always fun to see some Maverick love and that Tom is still around. When it went out in fashion - after its dominance in, what, circa 2010-2012 - I picked up the deck and fielded in it a bunch of local tourneys and IQ's. I had a few small Top 8's to my name with the deck. Seems like by 2014 people were surprised the deck still existed, and that they were further surprised that the deck would beat some of the newer, sexier decks entering the scene (e.g., Team America, Miracles, etc.) Honestly if it weren't for Miracles - and to a lesser extent, Elves - I think the deck would be perfectly fine and arguably one of the decks to beat in the format. Be that as it may, I have a few deck-evolving questions for everyone - this with respect to the GWb version:

* I've always run a 4:1 DRS:Noble split - that was the tried and true way Tom ran it, as did I. However, I've considered going 3:2 or even 2:3 (i.e. more Nobles) than DRS because of the necessity of hitting a T2 3-drop like THC. Also, it doesn't weaken KotR as much as DRS eating your own lands. What are people's experiences in terms of their current DRS:Noble split?
* Are people liking 0, 1, or 2 Sylvan Library mainboard? I used to run 2 mainboard but I've scaled it back due to the speed and explosiveness of Eldrazi.
* How many T,GoT are people fielding these days? It seems like 3 or 4 was the mainstay. I've always run 4 but I am considering backing off to 3. Yes/no?
* Thoughts on the new Thalia, Heretic Cathar? From reading the DnT forums people seem pretty high on her. I think she could be an excellent addition to the deck and with a big first strike body and exalted triggers from Nobles and Qasali could dish out serious punishment.

As an aside, has anyone given serious consideration to running stock GW again? A while back the deck evolved into the Punishing version (GWr) and Abzan version (GWb) to fight off fair and unfair decks, respectively. However, with the new Thalia, if she is the real deal, she could be a consistent answer to both fair and unfair decks without needing a 3rd color. This would allow better mana consistency (only 2 colors) and also allow us to play some of our old fun lands and tech cards, particularly Maze of Ith and Dueling Ground in the SB. Thoughts?

[Luthiereisfun]

Thanks for sharing the podcast/YouTube link. Always fun to see some Maverick love and that Tom is still around. When it went out in fashion - after its dominance in, what, circa 2010-2012 - I picked up the deck and fielded in it a bunch of local tourneys and IQ's. I had a few small Top 8's to my name with the deck. Seems like by 2014 people were surprised the deck still existed, and that they were further surprised that the deck would beat some of the newer, sexier decks entering the scene (e.g., Team America, Miracles, etc.) Honestly if it weren't for Miracles - and to a lesser extent, Elves - I think the deck would be perfectly fine and arguably one of the decks to beat in the format. Be that as it may, I have a few deck-evolving questions for everyone - this with respect to the GWb version:

* I've always run a 4:1 DRS:Noble split - that was the tried and true way Tom ran it, as did I. However, I've considered going 3:2 or even 2:3 (i.e. more Nobles) than DRS because of the necessity of hitting a T2 3-drop like THC. Also, it doesn't weaken KotR as much as DRS eating your own lands. What are people's experiences in terms of their current DRS:Noble split?
* Are people liking 0, 1, or 2 Sylvan Library mainboard? I used to run 2 mainboard but I've scaled it back due to the speed and explosiveness of Eldrazi.
* How many T,GoT are people fielding these days? It seems like 3 or 4 was the mainstay. I've always run 4 but I am considering backing off to 3. Yes/no?
* Thoughts on the new Thalia, Heretic Cathar? From reading the DnT forums people seem pretty high on her. I think she could be an excellent addition to the deck and with a big first strike body and exalted triggers from Nobles and Qasali could dish out serious punishment.

As an aside, has anyone given serious consideration to running stock GW again? A while back the deck evolved into the Punishing version (GWr) and Abzan version (GWb) to fight off fair and unfair decks, respectively. However, with the new Thalia, if she is the real deal, she could be a consistent answer to both fair and unfair decks without needing a 3rd color. This would allow better mana consistency (only 2 colors) and also allow us to play some of our old fun lands and tech cards, particularly Maze of Ith and Dueling Ground in the SB. Thoughts?

One thing I like about new Thalia in Maverick is we can drop her T2, something that DNT cant do with their "stock" lists. Given ththe choice I would most likely drop old Thalia before the new one with both in hand. But having that option to drop heretical t2 on the play seems pretty good.

[Megadeus]

Went 2-0-1 last night and 4-0 tonight with my above list. I'm really liking the 2 Scavenging Ooze. Probably going to play the deck in our Quarterly Moxen event -2 Stoneforge, -1 Sword of Light and Shadow, +3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar. I think she might be insane. The deck seems pretty well positioned against Eldrazi. Thalia probably improves it even more.

[Skizz]

Hey,

im brewing for a few days now and cant wait for Thalia HC
here are 2 lists im trying to test the next weeks:
my meta is full of Miracles/Aggro Loam/Eldrazi

straight G/W like in the old days - cutting SFM and jamming only 2 Jittes (works fine for me in the past..)

4 Savannah
2 Forrest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
1 Gaeas Cradle
1 Karakas
5 Fetchland
1 Maze of Ith
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasal Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scrybranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3/4 Thalia GoT
2/3 Thalia HC
4 Green Suns Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

Sideboard would look something like this

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Choke
2 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Pithing Needle
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Winter Orb

G/Wb

2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaeas Cradle
2 Forrest
1 Plains
6 Fetchland
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasal Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, GoT
1 Scrybranger
2 Thalia, HC
4 Green Suns Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Life from the Loam

Sideboard

3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
2 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Krosan Grip
1 Abrupt Decay

i would love to get some feedback from you guys :smile:

[TheoryCraft]

Skizz, your GW and GWb deck lists look extremely similar to what I've been envisioning. I will try to get in some playtesting this weekend and report in as well.

[sdematt]

Skizz, your GW and GWb deck lists look extremely similar to what I've been envisioning. I will try to get in some playtesting this weekend and report in as well.

Similar to mine, I like it ;)

[Manipulato]

Why do you guys dont play SFM anymore?

[Megadeus]

Why do you guys dont play SFM anymore?

It's generally considered to be one of the worst cards in the deck often and Thalia is a pretty good replacement

[sdematt]

I think we're considering that the new Thalia is going to be excellent, and the cuttable slots are basically SFM and original Thalia. I basically wouldn't want to cut anything else. It does raise the curve a tiny bit, and I guess if you wanted, you could shave a Knight. I think a 3/3 split of the new and old Thalia seems just fine. All I want to do is drop Thalia HC and then Wasteland + Loam them into oblivion.

[Fatal]

How often did you faced in testing moments when you have Thalia (old one) on table and calculating to cast Thalia (new one):

On play and on draw:
- In BUG matchup: conditions - turn 3, opponent doesn't have a thread on table,
- In Miracle matchup:conditions turn 3, opponent have SDT on table,
- In Eldrazi matchup: conditions - turn 3, Chalice resolved on opponent side,
- In Sneak & Show: conditions - turn 3,
- In Elves matchup: conditions - turn 3, he didnt glimpse,
- In Lands matchup: conditions - Exploration on table, loam in GY
- In Aggro Loam matchup: conditions - Liliana with 1 counter, turn 3 (your hierarch/shaman in gy).
- In Delver MU (grixs/rug doesn't matter) - turn 3, with a thread and without on table.

-EDIT, legend rule != plainwalker rule, you can have both Thalia on battlefield. So nvm.

[Megadeus]

Thalia seems insane against Eldrazi. Her plus old Thalia is 5 power of first strike against a deck that has no man generally bigger than that.

[TheoryCraft]

Got some playtesting in this weekend. Tried out GW and GWb variants.

-I missed having DRS in the straight GW build.

-Sylvan Safekeeper is a pretty nice card. Nice enough to consider it a main deck playable card. I will probably do a 3:1 split of Mother of Runes : Sylvan Safekeeper for the time being. Sylvan Safekeeper is great against Eldrazi and Jitte and has nice synergy with KotR (bombing a bunch of lands for lethal).

-I find the SFM package to still be pretty important. GW doesn't have much in the realm of CA other than SFM and Sylvan Library. I feel comfortable running 2-3 SFM and 2 Equipment main board along with 1-2 Sylvan Library.

-The new Thalia was pretty nice. In one game she directly lead to a win as my opponent could not curve into a Liliana thanks to a ETB-tapped fetchland. The following turn I bombed it with a Wasteland and they were never able to hit their 3 untapped land before I presented lethal.

-As of now a 3:3 split of old and new Thalia seems good. It's a feelsbad moment to clutter your hand with a bunch of Thalias, but as of now it hasn't been overly cumbersome on a consistent basis.

Because the mana curve of the deck is increasing with the inclusion of 3 more 3-drops, I intend to put in a 6th mana dork. I had been running a 4:1 DRS:Noble split but I intend to add in a 2nd Noble.

[Fl0do]

@Seraphix' Punishing Fire List (Starcitygames Open): I really like your list, it looks like a streamlined, straightforward Punishing Maverick list without too much cute things. Still I have some questions and I'm curious about your reasoning regarding some card choices.
- Playing no Sword of Fire and Ice. SoFaI seems like a good tool against the grindy MUs like Shardless, Miracles, etc. especially with the 3rd Stoneforge Mystic.
- Winter Orb, I get it why Delver wants to play one or two in the SB but I do not get why we want it in a deck like Maverick. What was your reasoning behind this and did the Winter Orb fulfil it's purpose?
- Lack of Maze of Ith. When I'm building Punishing Maverick Maze of Ith is a card I always wanted to squeeze into the deck because it helps to survive early onslaughts until you stabilize or for the tricks with Knight of the Reliquary. Punishing Maverick has just more to fetch with KotR than the usual Abzan Maverick version. Though I was slinging the Abzan version the last years I just may be wrong on this and Maze of Ith is not good enough anymore.
- Fiery Justice looks really good in this deck. You said you played it for personal reasons so do you think there is a more powerful choice as additional Removal out of the SB instead of Fiery Justice? (4th Punishing Fire, Path to Exile, Oblivion Ring, ...)

thanks, Fl0do :)

[Seraphix]

@Seraphix' Punishing Fire List (Starcitygames Open): I really like your list, it looks like a streamlined, straightforward Punishing Maverick list without too much cute things. Still I have some questions and I'm curious about your reasoning regarding some card choices.
- Playing no Sword of Fire and Ice. SoFaI seems like a good tool against the grindy MUs like Shardless, Miracles, etc. especially with the 3rd Stoneforge Mystic.
- Winter Orb, I get it why Delver wants to play one or two in the SB but I do not get why we want it in a deck like Maverick. What was your reasoning behind this and did the Winter Orb fulfil it's purpose?
- Lack of Maze of Ith. When I'm building Punishing Maverick Maze of Ith is a card I always wanted to squeeze into the deck because it helps to survive early onslaughts until you stabilize or for the tricks with Knight of the Reliquary. Punishing Maverick has just more to fetch with KotR than the usual Abzan Maverick version. Though I was slinging the Abzan version the last years I just may be wrong on this and Maze of Ith is not good enough anymore.
- Fiery Justice looks really good in this deck. You said you played it for personal reasons so do you think there is a more powerful choice as additional Removal out of the SB instead of Fiery Justice? (4th Punishing Fire, Path to Exile, Oblivion Ring, ...)

thanks, Fl0do :)

Thank you for your interest in the deck :)

1. Sophie is a great card and I often play a 2 SFM + Jitte + Sword configuration in this deck. As you note, Swords shine in the Miracles and Shardless matchups and are superior to Batterskull against those decks. My main motivation for switching to Batterskull for this event was Eldrazi, which I was expecting to see a lot of. I still don't have a lot of experience with the Eldrazi matchup, and while Batterskull is great against them I'm starting to think the matchup is good enough without it. I should also note that Swords are slightly worse in Punishing Maverick than in GWb due to the lower creature count.

2. Winter Orb is a card I honestly have no experience with but decided to try in the SB instead of Garruk Relentless. Winter Orb fulfills a role as an an anti-Miracles card like Garruk, but is also relevant against decks like Lands and Cloudpost, which I expected a lot of at the Open. I haven't cast this card yet so I still don't have a useful opinion on it.

3. I really like Maze of Ith, but its hard to squeeze into the same deck as Dark Depths outside of a dedicated Loam deck. Maze is less powerful than summoning Marit Lage but has the advantage of taking up only one slot. I don't play Maze much in any Maverick these days (prefer Cradle in GWb) but I tested it again before the event, primarily as an anti-Eldrazi measure. Testing quickly re-affirmed my belief that Dark Depths is generally superior in the deck.

4. While Fiery Justice is a pet card, I honestly believe it to be the best sweeper effect available to this deck in Naya colors. I like to have a sweeper in Maverick for decks like D&T, Elves, Merfolk and Goblins. Electrickery is too narrow and Sudden Demise/Pyroclasm hurt us too much. Fiery Justice has also been unexpectedly useful against Miracles as a reasonable answer to both Jace and Mentor.

[ThediscoPower]

2. Winter Orb is a card I honestly have no experience with but decided to try in the SB instead of Garruk Relentless. Winter Orb fulfills a role as an an anti-Miracles card like Garruk, but is also relevant against decks like Lands and Cloudpost, which I expected a lot of at the Open. I haven't cast this card yet so I still don't have a useful opinion on it.


If you don't mind, I will jump in on that point. I was also trying witer orb out in my sideboard in Worcester, and actually got to cast it, both times against miracles. My opinion on it is that it's not that good, as both times the miracle played already had control of the board. In the end, It did nothing to pull me back ahead, which is already the problem I had with armageddon.

Initially my thought process was that I wanted a card that didn't get stopped by teeg, that helped in more than just the miracles matchup and that could show up very early in the game. Aside from that, it also had the upside of limiting how much monastery mentor took over the game (which is also why I ended up cutting bitterblossom from my sideboard too, it's not good enough when they can wipe your board and land mentor after). That's how i ended up with 2 orbs in my sideboard, over choke and geddon.

Now, after testing, I would play armageddon over that card (bigger blowout, less likely the miracles/lands player can come back), and another garruck. Sword of war and peace was also really good out of the side.

(for reference, I finished 40th, lost my last round for certain top 32, and did not make it on breakers after that. I believe we were the only 2 maverick players on day 2, actually).

quick edit. Play safekeeper. that card is nuts. Really. it is.

[Megadeus]

Do miracles players generally board out Force against you guys? Counter spell? Counter balance? What counters do they usually keep in against this deck? I know in the past they took out force, but I could see it staying in if they are on the mentor plan

Also on the red version I'm trying out Boil like Lands. Brought it in against Shardless and Show and tell the other night. Probably wrong, but I didn't draw it and it seemed better than something like scooze/tireless tracker against show and tell at least

[ThediscoPower]

Do miracles players generally board out Force against you guys? Counter spell? Counter balance? What counters do they usually keep in against this deck? I know in the past they took out force, but I could see it staying in if they are on the mentor plan

they board out all forces usually. they keep balance and counter spell. You have decays for mentor, and don't keep plows (or a lot of them) post-board.

[menloe]

So Seraphix got a nice mention in the mtggoldfish Legacy write up: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-week-in-legacy-scg-worcester-recap-and-prison-control-decks. Punishing Maverick involves sending the deck to The Spice Corner!

[calcymon]

they board out all forces usually. they keep balance and counter spell. You have decays for mentor, and don't keep plows (or a lot of them) post-board.


miracles always side out balance vs decay decks, they dont usually side out forces

[NEELEY]

I 3-2 a league with 4 color loam and two 3-2's with punishing maverick. So I thought to myself to just play my gwb version because it's always consistent. Once again I 5-0 with it, so maybe Sunday at SCG Columbus ill play it but not sure, I do like the free wins I get with 4 color loam. Here is the deck for reference same list as this http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=99973 but a couple changes. Wanted to try out batterskull with eldrazi being popular, it was pretty good and played out like what death and taxes felt like when you play turn 1 mom into turn 2 stoneforge for bskull. I played vs 2 delver decks, death and taxes, Reanimator and miracles.

main +1 stoneforge +1 batterskull -1 light and shadow -1 garruk relentless

sideboard -1 banishing light +1 garruk relentless.

[Mono-Green]

Tried this pile out tonight:

Creatures:21
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker

Spells:15
3 Mox Diamond
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands:24
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath

Tied with Shardless, won the mirror, lost against U/R Delver.

Tracker was great. I liked the small Loam package. The Moxen were sometimes great and other times not so great. I'll be moving parts around to squeeze in the new Thalia. Stoneforge is the likely cut. A single Safekeeper might replace a Mom.

All in all it was a decent mix of both Maverick to which I'm new, and 4C Loam from where I was.

[DoomRabbit]

Just starting out with the deck, here's what I've been trying out:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
1 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Armageddon
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

I can't really offer much insight, but I've been having a lot of fun with the list so far, new Thalia seems very good (in creature matchups at least, haven't played against miracles or combo yet).
Dropping her turn 2 on the play vs Eldrazi is a beating!

I had a question about "swords of" for those of you more familiar with the deck.
I get how SoFI is great value, but if miracles is such a bad matchup, wouldn't one of the white swords be better? Could keep a teeg safe from STP for example (maybe that's just wishful thinking and raw value is just better, and we already have Mom).
Is it a case of SoFI in the main, white sword in the board to swap out for the matchup?

[sdematt]

Just starting out with the deck, here's what I've been trying out:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
1 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Armageddon
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

I can't really offer much insight, but I've been having a lot of fun with the list so far, new Thalia seems very good (in creature matchups at least, haven't played against miracles or combo yet).
Dropping her turn 2 on the play vs Eldrazi is a beating!

I had a question about "swords of" for those of you more familiar with the deck.
I get how SoFI is great value, but if miracles is such a bad matchup, wouldn't one of the white swords be better? Could keep a teeg safe from STP for example (maybe that's just wishful thinking and raw value is just better, and we already have Mom).
Is it a case of SoFI in the main, white sword in the board to swap out for the matchup?

I think SOFI always in the main, and if you're playing 3 Equips, then you can play a white sword in the main as well. War and Peace/Light and Shadow both offer advantages and disadvantages.

I don't think we can count on Teeg being our horse in the Miracles matchup, but with Safekeeper and 4 Mother, he's well protected (and we're more well diversified in threats against Miracles). A possibility is also running 6 manadorks total, and siding into Winter Orbs and Armageddon, along with the new Thalia, could be an absolute beating. Thoughts?

-Matt

[Barook]

I think SOFI always in the main, and if you're playing 3 Equips, then you can play a white sword in the main as well. War and Peace/Light and Shadow both offer advantages and disadvantages.

I don't think we can count on Teeg being our horse in the Miracles matchup, but with Safekeeper and 4 Mother, he's well protected (and we're more well diversified in threats against Miracles). A possibility is also running 6 manadorks total, and siding into Winter Orbs and Armageddon, along with the new Thalia, could be an absolute beating. Thoughts?

-Matt
I really want to try out Thalia HC with Crackdown and Winter Orb in SBs. Not many of our threats are non-white and have 3+ power permanently.

Crackdown would also work with Thornscape Apprentice as GSZ-able tap enable. Probably too fancy, though.

[Megadeus]

Played new Thalia in my quarterly win a mox today. Unfortunately went 2-3. Beat Shardless, it wasn't close. Beat 4 color loam in a close one. Lost a close game to Lands. Lost an insanely close game to Shardless. Got beat by infect in 7 minutes to drop. It was a tough day, but Thalia's together were completely insane. Even new Thalia alone was really really good. Really interested in hearing how a junk list does. I definitely got to have an opponent cast brainstorm, put in a tapped fetch, and get rekt by a wasteland. And had a shardless player fire off 3 visions and I was still him brainstorming into a removal to push through the last point

Also definitely gonna try a couple winter orb in place of boils with her

[TheFeedingEnd]

Played GWb in the Legacy Classic in Columbus today. Ended 4-3, in 41st (awful breakers :frown:).
Losses were to BUG Delver, RUG Delver, and Jund Lands. Beat Nahiri Miracles, Mentor Miracles, UB Tezz, and Infect. Can post a list later if anyone is interested.

[Jimbrewersbro]

Played GWb in the Legacy Classic in Columbus today. Ended 4-3, in 41st (awful breakers :frown:).
Losses were to BUG Delver, RUG Delver, and Jund Lands. Beat Nahiri Miracles, Mentor Miracles, UB Tezz, and Infect. Can post a list later if anyone is interested.

I'm interested in a list. Did you play new Thalia? If so how did she perform?

[Megadeus]

Not to steal thunder from the other guy, but she really was awesome for me over the weekend despite going 2-3. She was a house against shardless. Got to fuck up a brainstorm plus fetch thanks to wasteland. And got to really punish 4 color loam with an early Thalia getting way ahead on board. Then yesterday tested a bunch against elves and I think between us switching decks any preboard game where she came down turns 2 or 3 he and I won. She buys so much time against them. It's insane

[Togores]

No one likes gw with vials and weathered wayfarer?

[Thunderknight]

I tried out a new brew to my local Quest for Power Satellite Tournament (Added Momma Thalia, Grim Flayer, and Crop Rotation, took out The Stoneforge package completely) I went 2-2 with my deck.

RD1: Lost to Burn Hard. I keep a hand that had lot of three drops, and I knew I should have mulled down. Fireblast is really annoying to play around.
RD2: Won against Reanimator: New Thalia slow that match up down hard. Was able to take control the game after a full turn passed.
RD3: Lost to Punishing Knight: Got the nut draws twice by T1 Chalice, T2 Lily, tick, T3 Knight.
RD4: Won against DnT: Grim Flayer + Jitte carried the game.

Grim Flayer: I probably going to cut him, I wanted to try him out today for the following theories.
1.) Manipulating the top 3 cards is strong, as well as pitch things to the graveyard, to dig deeper.
2.) Sylan Library on a body that can be GSZ.

I don't think Abzan Maverick wants it.

New Thalia did lot of work today. Probably going to keep her in.

[ThediscoPower]

I tried out a new brew to my local Quest for Power Satellite Tournament (Added Momma Thalia, Grim Flayer, and Crop Rotation, took out The Stoneforge package completely) I went 2-2 with my deck.

RD1: Lost to Burn Hard. I keep a hand that had lot of three drops, and I knew I should have mulled down. Fireblast is really annoying to play around.
RD2: Won against Reanimator: New Thalia slow that match up down hard. Was able to take control the game after a full turn passed.
RD3: Lost to Punishing Knight: Got the nut draws twice by T1 Chalice, T2 Lily, tick, T3 Knight.
RD4: Won against DnT: Grim Flayer + Jitte carried the game.

Grim Flayer: I probably going to cut him, I wanted to try him out today for the following theories.
1.) Manipulating the top 3 cards is strong, as well as pitch things to the graveyard, to dig deeper.
2.) Sylan Library on a body that can be GSZ.

I don't think Abzan Maverick wants it.

New Thalia did lot of work today. Probably going to keep her in.

Did you miss the stoneforge package? I take it that you took out all equipments too?

[Thunderknight]

Did you miss the stoneforge package? I take it that you took out all equipments too?

Not really. I wanted to focus more on the DD combo, so I ditched all cards that wasn't going to get closer to the combo.

I still left 1 Jitte in b/c my meta does have higher number of DnT so I just need something to kill moms.

[TheoryCraft]

I'd be curious to hear if anyone has playtesting feedback re. #'s for the new Thalia vs. the old Thalia. So far a 3/3 split seemed decent. I might even do 3/2 (old/new) split. I've only played with the new Thalia for one playtesting session but she was solid. It's just unfortunate to draw more than one. But hey, it makes our Karakas better. :)

[TheFeedingEnd]

I'm interested in a list. Did you play new Thalia? If so how did she perform?

I played 1 new Thalia and she was really good. Def want to move up to 2~3 for sure. Duskwatch wasn't very good, original thought was to pump extra mana from Cradle into it but never actually came up, often just a bear. Liliana was good in the grinder match-ups, Ult won a game against miracles, +1 was good against Tezz (Strix) and Infect.


List:


Creatures: 24
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker

Spells: 14
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
2 Avrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

Lands: 22
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Spirit of the Labrinth
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Choke
1 Cataclysm

[Fatal]

No one likes gw with vials and weathered wayfarer?

We like them very much, but problem is rampaging Miracles in most meta, where you need to stick Gaddock as soon as possible, which GSZ build does better. As much as I love Wayfarer and Vial both's unfortunately too slow in Aggro matchup, turn 2 Knight is just better there.

But I have a hint to improve Vial build - let's try Bant colors, cards which can be not bad:
- Daze (synergy with Wayfarer), works well with turn 1 vial.
- Brainstorm - replacing dead vials later is always good / maybe some looter on creature ?
- Edric - probably one of the drawing engine
- Fow - would much improve many matchups
- Clique - still one of the best creatures
- New Clique which "bound spells" worth try
- Cursecatcher with wings is also nice with Edric.
- New Thalia for sure

Build would be Legend heavy so running 2 or even 3 Karakas isn't bad

Build would be much less "green" centric, more white / blue centric. Cutting green completely is for sure wrong U/W colors doesn't support game ending creatures like KotR which is best answer vs Aggro / Midrange.

Problems to resolve:
Thalia / Brainstorm desynergy
Fow / Blue cards count - not sure is it possible to run them.
Mana base - 4 wastelands, some utlity lands vs 3 color is always a problem

[Fl0do]

We like them very much, but problem is rampaging Miracles in most meta, where you need to stick Gaddock as soon as possible, which GSZ build does better. As much as I love Wayfarer and Vial both's unfortunately too slow in Aggro matchup, turn 2 Knight is just better there.


On the other hand Aether Vial and some Wayfarer activations for card advantage may be the trump vs. Miracles alongside Karakas + Thalia and Stoneforge Mystic. Multiple tutorable Wastelands seem to be pretty good vs Eldrazi but a little bit slow against their explosive starts.

My first draft (one quick match vs. Death & Taxes was won 2-0):

4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths

4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Noble hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Gaddock Teeg

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Life from the Loam

Sideboard:
1 Bojuka bog
1 Karakas
1 Crop Rotation
2 Containment Priest
2 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Wilt Leaf Liege
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Some notes:
- numbers not set in stone, especially for the SB
- if left unchecked, wayfarer takes over the game
- large Stoneforge package required because of creatures without impressive stats, though Exalted helps a little bit (Sword of Feast and Famine?)

Any thoughts?

[Fatal]

I'm not a fan of Stoneforge package, does Knight / new Thalia isn't worth testing ? Knight would give much faster game beef then equipments with additional way to searching lands. New Thalia is lock over strategy of playing fetchlands to dodge wastelands.

So:

- 4 SFM
- 3 Equips

+4 Knight of the Reliquary
+3 new Thalia

[Fl0do]

Equipment on the other hand solves board stalls or controls the board. I would rather have an Umezawa's Jitte vs. Pyromancer or Sword of Fire and Ice vs. TNN than a Knight of the Reliquary which I can't tutor for and Batterskull turns races in my favor. Equipment also turns every creature in a threat. I tried to squeeze in the Knight, but I don't want to cut the Stoneforge package.

As for the new Thalia, I really don't know what to cut either :S

What I also had in mind when I put the decklist together is to shave on 3cc spells because the mana is quite tight in the early turns with all the tutoring and the utility lands and it's good to get the full use of your Vial with only two counters on it (enables all creatures you can draw faster).

[Fatal]

Equipment on the other hand solves board stalls or controls the board. I would rather have an Umezawa's Jitte vs. Pyromancer or Sword of Fire and Ice vs. TNN than a Knight of the Reliquary which I can't tutor for and Batterskull turns races in my favor. Equipment also turns every creature in a threat. I tried to squeeze in the Knight, but I don't want to cut the Stoneforge package.

As for the new Thalia, I really don't know what to cut either :S

What I also had in mind when I put the decklist together is to shave on 3cc spells because the mana is quite tight in the early turns with all the tutoring and the utility lands and it's good to get the full use of your Vial with only two counters on it (enables all creatures you can draw faster).

Totally understand your point of few - keeping low mana curve (<=2) is good here. For sure lovering mana curve have some darker sides - CotV or Counterbalance.
I'm only pointing that you don't have any beef thread which mostly was advantage over D&T, in 3 cmc.

I tested a little and found that mana base is very greedy (only 14 colored mana sources), hands without a vial can be unplayable after 1 wasteland or cut in half (mostly loosing second color). I found that mana curve is more white in this list so mostly vs unknown opponent I fetch basic plains (if not having hierarch). Bad that you didn't fit any Caverns (probably pridemages would be very hard to cast), not sure I like DD/TS package MD.

[Rascalyote]

I went 3-0-1 tonight at our weekly (draw was against a person playing delver kinda new to legacy - bit slow and we were chatting a bunch as I was giving him kind of a walkthrough and explaining stuff in legacy etc. haha, oh well =p)

I was going to play a list with 3 Heretic Cathar but then I went down to 2, I then swapped them for the 2 abrupt decays that I had in the board because I felt decay was better in more matchups, esp against miracles. I boarded Thalia in against 3 decks tonight (Delver/Delver/Lands - didn't board her in vs. Miracles) but alas I never drew her so I'm not sure how good she is - I'm having a hard time thinking of matchups where I'm struggling and new Thalia will stomp.

I constantly tune my sideboard all the time. Recent changes I've really enjoyed are swapping out Light and Shadow in the board (didn't like it in the main) for War and Peace as I liked the effect a lot more, pro black was ok and looping pridemage was really OP when it happened but it was only brought in against the decks playing white most of the time and those decks play plow and or terminus turning it into Sword of healing salve. I also cut 1 canonist for a 2nd teeg in the board because they're good in a lot of the same matchups (Canonist was a lot better when omni was T1) but teeg is also insane against miracles so I felt playing 3 makes them have to (literally) plow through more.

Here's my list, very similar to what I've posted before in this thread, been happy with the maindeck, been playing it a bunch, won some locals inc. a GPT recently. Don't travel much so don't really place in larger events - MD hasn't changed much other than wishy washy 3/4 Thalias.

2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marshflats (testing over 4th verdant to have a 5th land that gets the plains - I know not getting arbor is blegh)
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary

SB (prolly gonna change it more)

2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Choke
1 Sword of War and Peace
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction

[Fl0do]

Totally understand your point of few - keeping low mana curve (<=2) is good here. For sure lovering mana curve have some darker sides - CotV or Counterbalance.
I'm only pointing that you don't have any beef thread which mostly was advantage over D&T, in 3 cmc.

I tested a little and found that mana base is very greedy (only 14 colored mana sources), hands without a vial can be unplayable after 1 wasteland or cut in half (mostly loosing second color). I found that mana curve is more white in this list so mostly vs unknown opponent I fetch basic plains (if not having hierarch). Bad that you didn't fit any Caverns (probably pridemages would be very hard to cast), not sure I like DD/TS package MD.

Its an option to trim on the Stoneforge Package to fit in 2-3 Knight of the Reliquary, if you don't want to rely too heavily on Equipment for board control reasons. Tireless Tracker would be another interesting Option, since Weathered Wayfarer is your land tutor of choice. Tracker gets really impressive in grindy games with its ability to get a draw for every land you play.

The manabase is far from optimal, further testing will show which lands to cut and which lands to add (this manabase was only a rough draft). Once you include some bigger creatures you can cut the DD/TS Kombo.

I think Aether Vial is the way to go for this deck (and creature decks in general which can't support chalice) in the current Meta

@Fatal: Didn't you make top 8 with something similar?

[NEELEY]

Went 4-1 with Maverick in a league last night. Used this same list http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13088&d=276468&f=LE . My loss was to Deathblade, how would everyone sideboard in this match up? I find that I have a hard time wanting to cut anything.

[pettdan]

Went 4-1 with Maverick in a league last night. Used this same list http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13088&d=276468&f=LE . My loss was to Deathblade, how would everyone sideboard in this match up? I find that I have a hard time wanting to cut anything.

Just giving my view here.. Their threats are usually Stoneforge/equipment and TNN, right? I usually board one Aura Shards since it single handedly invalidates most of their win conditions (well TNN can still be troublesome but less so without equipment). I would consider changing the third Qasali in your sideboard to AS, but it's a pet card of mine.

I would bring out Ooze and Teeg since they don't do too much and add 1 Choke and 1 Qasali. The second Choke should perhaps come in too, but they have Deathrite for acceleration, Decay as an answer and threats that we need to deal with so I'm not sure about a second copy.

I usually board out some number of x/1's vs decks that can be assumed to board in some amount of sweepers, so based on that I would board out maybe 2-4 Thalia, possibly a mother depending on what goes in. Thalia is nice vs their cantrips but doesn't do anything vs TNN.

I would board in the 2 Zealous Persecutions for dealing with TNN.

I would probably board out 1-2 StP since they don't deal with TNN and keep 2-3 for dealing with Deathrite efficiently. Would bring in 1-2 Decay since they deal with equipment too.

Edit: thinking a little more about it, Thalia is more valuable on the play, perhaps one should board the last two out when on the draw for Thoughtseizes which potentially help with Jace but also TNN and Batterskull..

[Warden]

Went 4-1 with Maverick in a league last night. Used this same list http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13088&d=276468&f=LE . My loss was to Deathblade, how would everyone sideboard in this match up? I find that I have a hard time wanting to cut anything.


I haven't posted here in a good while. Against Deathblade I've always struggled. The times I've won came down to 2 things: 1) disable/remove DRS for them and 2) obliterate their mana. That deck is beyond greedy with colors. TNN is the best card but it still costs UU1. Liliana of the Veil (for lists that run it) also needs color-color. Same for Jace.

If I won game 1, I'm pulling Thalia. She is then too slow and impedes my own sb tech like decay, choke, and ZP. ZP knocks out their big guns and also removes shit like Strix. I'd straight swap 4 Thalia for ZP and Chokes. I'd consider trading out some STP for decays (see: all around utility), but let's not forget STP kills anything not TNN. The early game is also very important, so turn 1/2 STP on their early drops can be enough to put them in an awkward zone. Last, I also pack Ooze #2 in my Maverick lists, so if he's not already job the main, I make room for him.

If I lost game 1, I'm on the play in uber mana denial mode. 90% keep Thalia. Shave down all expendable cards to 3x or remove them in favor of TS/Choke/Decay/ZP. I have a 10% "luck" factor...where I feel my opponent just gets "all the right things for him/herself". If your facing someone who is just unstoppable and very lucky, don't go the denial route. They will magically have all the right sequences and cards no matter what lol.

My ideal line of play is: Dork, Thalia + wasteland, KotR, KotR tutoring wastelands until they can't play anything.

[NEELEY]

Agree with most of this, it seems like choke is terrible when they get deathrite, Savannah and scrubland going but it's probably worth the risk because the deck is very mana intensive. I played a league with punishing maverick tonight and loss to deathblade again, they play all "good cards" and seemed to have an answer to everything you do.

[Megadeus]

Neeley, any thoughts to boil over choke in that match up? It comes down later, but instant speed surprise is nice, and they can't undo it with a decay. Maybe just straight up blood moon from the red versions? Boil is nice against miracles too.

[NEELEY]

Neeley, any thoughts to boil over choke in that match up? It comes down later, but instant speed surprise is nice, and they can't undo it with a decay. Maybe just straight up blood moon from the red versions? Boil is nice against miracles too.

I assume you are talking about Punishing Maverick? So I think boil is worth a spot, I tried 2 winter orbs in the board and wasn't impressed. I think a 1/1 split between choke and boil would be good and will probably try it in the next league I play. I don't think blood moon is the right fit in the deck. I do believe G/W/b is the best version and Thalia trumps punishing fire.

[Megadeus]

My buddy whom has played Maverick maybe twice before 4-0'd tonight with my deck. He said new Thalia is insane. I think Maverick has pretty solid positioning in the meta currently. Sadly right after I get the fun of tireless tracker new Thalia comes in and takes over

[Octopusman]

My buddy whom has played Maverick maybe twice before 4-0'd tonight with my deck. He said new Thalia is insane. I think Maverick has pretty solid positioning in the meta currently. Sadly right after I get the fun of tireless tracker new Thalia comes in and takes over

Sorry, but I think the last list you posted didn't have new Thalia. Can you share the new list?

[Megadeus]

Again, probably better off being black with decay, but the red does provide some interesting options. I also think a straight GW version may be viable again

4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Ajani Vengeant

2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Rogues Passage
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
2 Pyroblast
2 Electrickery
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Boil
1 Life from the Loam
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Faerie Macabre

[NEELEY]

Another 5-0 with same list

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13088&d=276468&f=LE

[Vervandi]

NEELEY,

I've started trading into Maverick as my first legacy deck and I actually did a physical fist pump when I saw your deck on mtgtop8 once again. I've made an account to ask a dumb question and to share my list. First the list (pretty stock stuff from reading here and researching for months:

Creatures:26
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Tireless Tracker

Spells:12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands:22
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:15
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog



And the dumb question... I noticed your list doesn't run the new Thalia. Is she not available on Magic Online or do you just not run her? Also, another dumb question. I'd really like to run Titania as a singleton, but is that just too cute?

Finally, if anyone has any critique of my list, please let me know. I'll be playing against friends on infect, burn, candleless high tide and at a local shop with an unknown small meta.

[Seraphix]

NEELEY,

I've started trading into Maverick as my first legacy deck and I actually did a physical fist pump when I saw your deck on mtgtop8 once again. I've made an account to ask a dumb question and to share my list. First the list (pretty stock stuff from reading here and researching for months:

List



And the dumb question... I noticed your list doesn't run the new Thalia. Is she not available on Magic Online or do you just not run her? Also, another dumb question. I'd really like to run Titania as a singleton, but is that just too cute?

Finally, if anyone has any critique of my list, please let me know. I'll be playing against friends on infect, burn, candleless high tide and at a local shop with an unknown small meta.

Main: Hierarch is generally superior to Birds in GWb. 2nd basic Plains is also unnecessary, unless you're concerned about the Burn deck (Canopy or Cavern is probably ideal here in a vaccuum).

Side: Bojuka Bog is a bit weak unless you're also playing Crop Rotation. Run Surgical Extraction or RIP instead. If Burn is a concern run Duress instead of Thoughtseize.

[Vervandi]

Main: Hierarch is generally superior to Birds in GWb. 2nd basic Plains is also unnecessary, unless you're concerned about the Burn deck (Canopy or Cavern is probably ideal here in a vaccuum).

Side: Bojuka Bog is a bit weak unless you're also playing Crop Rotation. Run Surgical Extraction or RIP instead. If Burn is a concern run Duress instead of Thoughtseize.

I thought birds would be better to produce black and hold a sword? Are the DRS and the lands enough to hit black, especially after sideboard?

I want that plains to eventually become a Canopy, but I'd like to wait until it is reprinted in a supplement set. I do have Cavern I could slot it in now if that would be better.

Wouldn't either surgical extraction / RIP be harder to find than bog since at least KOTR can search for it?

Good point about Duress / Thoughtseize. If you've played legacy for a while, do you find that duress hits most everything that Thoughtseize would have been hitting anyway?

[Megadeus]

I thought birds would be better to produce black and hold a sword? Are the DRS and the lands enough to hit black, especially after sideboard?

I want that plains to eventually become a Canopy, but I'd like to wait until it is reprinted in a supplement set. I do have Cavern I could slot it in now if that would be better.

Wouldn't either surgical extraction / RIP be harder to find than bog since at least KOTR can search for it?

Good point about Duress / Thoughtseize. If you've played legacy for a while, do you find that duress hits most everything that Thoughtseize would have been hitting anyway?

Your list is pretty light on black spells so the added benefit of exalted is pretty good, especially with Thalia. Bog with active knight is fine, but that is turn 3 at the earliest. Which against many of the graveyard stategies is really really slow. Rotation turns it into a possible turn 1 play. Duress/TS are coming in generally against combo and maybe control a bit, where those matches 95% of the time you're taking a non creature. So having an extra healing salve against burn is pretty nice

[Seraphix]

I thought birds would be better to produce black and hold a sword? Are the DRS and the lands enough to hit black, especially after sideboard?

I want that plains to eventually become a Canopy, but I'd like to wait until it is reprinted in a supplement set. I do have Cavern I could slot it in now if that would be better.

Wouldn't either surgical extraction / RIP be harder to find than bog since at least KOTR can search for it?

Good point about Duress / Thoughtseize. If you've played legacy for a while, do you find that duress hits most everything that Thoughtseize would have been hitting anyway?

Birds is situationally better for the reasons you mention, but Hierarch is generally better due to the Exalted trigger and also being able to attack by itself. If you really want to run Birds you can do a 3 DRS/1 Hierarch/1 Birds split.

You're a little light on grave hate as is (just 4 DRS, 1 Ooze, and 1 SB slot), so I'd consider dedicating an extra SB slot to GY hate. That way you can run 2 of whatever GY hate card and you'll be more likely to draw it. Other thing to try is cutting the 2nd Canonist for E-Tutor and play just 1 RIP you can tutor for. There are lots of different ways you can build your SB with this deck.

Looking at your list again I notice you have 2 Bayous instead of the usual 1 Bayou-1 Scrubland split. 4 fetchable White sources is a good number, so if you're going to stay on 2 Bayou I think the 3rd Savannah might be a better switch for the 2nd basic Plains. 2 fetchable Black sources is enough for your list as is, going up to 3 is only warranted if you're playing multiple copies of Decay in the 75.


Your list is pretty light on black spells so the added benefit of exalted is pretty good, especially with Thalia. Bog with active knight is fine, but that is turn 3 at the earliest. Which against many of the graveyard stategies is really really slow. Rotation turns it into a possible turn 1 play. Duress/TS are coming in generally against combo and maybe control a bit, where those matches 95% of the time you're taking a non creature. So having an extra healing salve against burn is pretty nice

Agreed that discard is almost never pointed at creatures when playing this deck...I'm honestly baffled by the near universal adoption of Thoughtseize over Duress, as the life loss can be relevant.

[Vervandi]

My thanks to both of you.

I really like the idea of the Enlightened Tutor / RIP combo in the board because E. Tutor can find other things as well. I guess it is kinda like a psuedo SFM in a way. (Oh my god, I just realized it fetches Cannonist, man the little things that can be done with this deck!)

EDIT: I just remembered something about RIP. Would that be bad with KOTR? Would Wheel of Sun and Moon be better here?

The reason I wanted to go 2 Bayou, 2 Savannah over 1 Bayou, 1 Scrubland , 2 savannah is because I actually own a bayou, and the 8 fetches. So it saves me money to buy a Bayou instead of a Scrubland and 4 verdant catacombs and the mana base seems pretty similar.

What would be your opinions on Savannah vs Horizon Canopy for that plains replacement down the road? Would Savannah being fetchable be more important than the cantrip?

I'm going to take your advice on the Noble Hierarch over BOP. With the pridemages it seems like you could almost have a little exalted subtheme going on, for what it is worth, not to mention, it probably feels better drawing a hierarch late game than it does a bird to either suit up or grant exalted to something else.

I'll definitely try the duress over thoughtseize.

One last question...I had mentioned Titania earlier. Is that just too cute / expensive for this deck? I think I am a little hung up on her interactions with so many other things in the deck, but maybe she is better in something like nic fit? Is she totally unplayable here?

[Seraphix]

My thanks to both of you.

I really like the idea of the Enlightened Tutor / RIP combo in the board because E. Tutor can find other things as well. I guess it is kinda like a psuedo SFM in a way. (Oh my god, I just realized it fetches Cannonist, man the little things that can be done with this deck!)

EDIT: I just remembered something about RIP. Would that be bad with KOTR? Would Wheel of Sun and Moon be better here?

The reason I wanted to go 2 Bayou, 2 Savannah over 1 Bayou, 1 Scrubland , 2 savannah is because I actually own a bayou, and the 8 fetches. So it saves me money to buy a Bayou instead of a Scrubland and 4 verdant catacombs and the mana base seems pretty similar.

What would be your opinions on Savannah vs Horizon Canopy for that plains replacement down the road? Would Savannah being fetchable be more important than the cantrip?

I'm going to take your advice on the Noble Hierarch over BOP. With the pridemages it seems like you could almost have a little exalted subtheme going on, for what it is worth, not to mention, it probably feels better drawing a hierarch late game than it does a bird to either suit up or grant exalted to something else.

I'll definitely try the duress over thoughtseize.

One last question...I had mentioned Titania earlier. Is that just too cute / expensive for this deck? I think I am a little hung up on her interactions with so many other things in the deck, but maybe she is better in something like nic fit? Is she totally unplayable here?

If this is where you're at right now, I wouldn't worry about the manabase stuff too much. The best thing for you to be doing is sleeving up the deck and playing games with it, not trying to eek out small percentage points of consistency, that stuff can wait.

RIP hurts us a little, but hurts the decks we bring it in against much more (Reanimator, Dredge, Lands, even fair decks like Shardless/Team America BUG & Canadian Thresh). Sure, Deathrite Shaman becomes Squire and Knight becomes Gray Ogre, but our deck still functions through it. Knight has plenty of utility tutoring up lands, and Exalted + Equips + Mother mean your men are still good in combat. Exalted beats are a very real thing and win many games. I miss playing all 4 Hierarchs a lot because of this.

I've never played Titania in Maverick, but I'll say that I've never wanted a 5-drop bomb in the deck. This topic gets discussed ad nauseam every few pages so you can go back and find stuff on it.

[Megadeus]

I've played Titania before. She's meh. I never wanted to green Sun for her. Sigarda has been sick though

[NEELEY]

NEELEY,

I've started trading into Maverick as my first legacy deck and I actually did a physical fist pump when I saw your deck on mtgtop8 once again. I've made an account to ask a dumb question and to share my list. First the list (pretty stock stuff from reading here and researching for months:

Creatures:26
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Tireless Tracker

Spells:12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands:22
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:15
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog



And the dumb question... I noticed your list doesn't run the new Thalia. Is she not available on Magic Online or do you just not run her? Also, another dumb question. I'd really like to run Titania as a singleton, but is that just too cute?

Finally, if anyone has any critique of my list, please let me know. I'll be playing against friends on infect, burn, candleless high tide and at a local shop with an unknown small meta.

I took a little break from Maverick and have been playing a lot of Loam lately, not putting very many 5-0's with, only 1 i think. But now I have played maverick the last couple weeks and doing very well with, in a league currently sitting 2-0. People consider Maverick a fringe deck on MTGO because of miracles being good vs the deck. They even say things like "man people will play anything in legacy, even when its position terribly", I just laugh.

I don't see the point of the new Thalia and haven't even wanted to test her( I could be wrong).

Birds is a no go here, deff hierarch. We have scryb and mom to get through with equipments. If you aren't playing decay main you only need 2 black sources so I would change foothills to catacombs so you can get your scrubland(not in your list). 2 plains is not neede but the 2 forest I like.

I have never really tried the big threats in Maverick, I want my deck to be consistent and not get stranded with something I can't cast.

Hope this helps!

[Warden]

Again, probably better off being black with decay, but the red does provide some interesting options. I also think a straight GW version may be viable again

4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Ajani Vengeant

2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Rogues Passage
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
2 Pyroblast
2 Electrickery
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Boil
1 Life from the Loam
1 Krosan Grip
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Faerie Macabre

Is 6 Thalia working for you? I haven't played Maverick in a looong while and can't help but think this new Thalia is feast-or-famine. Lots of folks raving about her when she works. I'm just baffled people aren't complaining about her legend-ruling herself (Guardian into Heretic no bueno).

[maharis]

Is 6 Thalia working for you? I haven't played Maverick in a looong while and can't help but think this new Thalia is feast-or-famine. Lots of folks raving about her when she works. I'm just baffled people aren't complaining about her legend-ruling herself (Guardian into Heretic no bueno).

After lots of testing in different shells, THC needs to be ramped into in order to work. Maverick is pretty good at that, luckily.

She doesn't legend rule herself, BTW. The legend rule is about actual card names, not character names. Planeswalkers have a subtype that is their character name. For example, JTMS and Jace, Telepath Unbound both say "Planeswalker -- Jace."

Creatures don't have something similar. It's not "Creature -- Human Soldier Thalia." So you can have both TGoT and THC on the board at the same time.

[Megadeus]

Yeah old Thalia into new Thalia is legal and super sick. She's definitely worse the later the game goes on, like old Thalia, but dudes coming in tapped is pretty huge. Also like I said earlier, she's nuts versus elves

[NEELEY]

After lots of testing in different shells, THC needs to be ramped into in order to work. Maverick is pretty good at that, luckily.

She doesn't legend rule herself, BTW. The legend rule is about actual card names, not character names. Planeswalkers have a subtype that is their character name. For example, JTMS and Jace, Telepath Unbound both say "Planeswalker -- Jace."

Creatures don't have something similar. It's not "Creature -- Human Soldier Thalia." So you can have both TGoT and THC on the board at the same time.

So I think if you want to play her, you probably want to run a 4 noble, 4 DRS version to utilize her being a 3 cc

[Zombie]

So I think if you want to play her, you probably want to run a 4 noble, 4 DRS version to utilize her being a 3 cc

Nah, don't need to. Megadeus' build above already has 4 Noble, 1 Bird, 4 GSZ for first turn acceleration. You could maaybe run 6 dorks 4 GSZ but more starts getting irresponsible IMO.

[maharis]

Nah, don't need to. Megadeus' build above already has 4 Noble, 1 Bird, 4 GSZ for first turn acceleration. You could maaybe run 6 dorks 4 GSZ but more starts getting irresponsible IMO.

Yeah 9 ramp pieces counting GSZ is plenty. You just have to mulligan most hands that don't have acceleration.

I also think Stoneforge should stay in the deck but I know that's the popular area to cut. Thing is, first strike + Jitte is so awesome and since we're adding more first strikers, seems like we should have an equip plan as well.

[Megadeus]

Yeah 9 ramp pieces counting GSZ is plenty. You just have to mulligan most hands that don't have acceleration.

I also think Stoneforge should stay in the deck but I know that's the popular area to cut. Thing is, first strike + Jitte is so awesome and since we're adding more first strikers, seems like we should have an equip plan as well.

I like 1 SFM, 1 Jitte, 1 Sofai. If I added another stone forge it would be at the expense of like my 2nd scavenging ooze, but I have really liked having the 2nd ooze.

[Vervandi]

I took a little break from Maverick and have been playing a lot of Loam lately, not putting very many 5-0's with, only 1 i think. But now I have played maverick the last couple weeks and doing very well with, in a league currently sitting 2-0. People consider Maverick a fringe deck on MTGO because of miracles being good vs the deck. They even say things like "man people will play anything in legacy, even when its position terribly", I just laugh.

I don't see the point of the new Thalia and haven't even wanted to test her( I could be wrong).

Birds is a no go here, deff hierarch. We have scryb and mom to get through with equipments. If you aren't playing decay main you only need 2 black sources so I would change foothills to catacombs so you can get your scrubland(not in your list). 2 plains is not neede but the 2 forest I like.

I have never really tried the big threats in Maverick, I want my deck to be consistent and not get stranded with something I can't cast.

Hope this helps!

Thank you very much for the response. After considering all the great advice I have received in this thread, my revised deck list looks like this:

Creatures:26
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar (These may become something else after I get some experience with the deck)
1 Tireless Tracker

Spells:12
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands:22
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Plains (one of these will become something else down the road)
2 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:15
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Duress
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke

[NEELEY]

I went 4-1 in 2 different leagues over the last couple days. The first one I tried 3 decay main and it was okay, I cut the batterskull, stoneforge and pridemage. The other league I played 2 new Thalia(along with 4 of the old) and played 3 nobles with the 4 DRS. I think I loss my last round to dredge on a mulligan to 5 in game 3 and turn 2 gsz for DRS wasn't fast enough because I drew nothing but lands after. Just a couple updates that the core of the deck is strong and still wins a lot

[Warden]

@Double Thalia situation: Thank you for clarifying this! Hmm maybe I should play SCG this weekend. Debating it.


I went 4-1 in 2 different leagues over the last couple days. The first one I tried 3 decay main and it was okay, I cut the batterskull, stoneforge and pridemage. The other league I played 2 new Thalia(along with 4 of the old) and played 3 nobles with the 4 DRS. I think I loss my last round to dredge on a mulligan to 5 in game 3 and turn 2 gsz for DRS wasn't fast enough because I drew nothing but lands after. Just a couple updates that the core of the deck is strong and still wins a lot

I'd probably run something similar to Vervandi's list.

I've been away from competitive stuff maybe too long. I don't want to throw away an event and embarrass myself.
How come lists no longer run Teeg and Sigarda 1.0? Those were auto included, but perhaps I don't understand some things nowadays.

There's potential in a pure GW list that banks on dork -> 3 drop. With double thalias, you're also capable of locking down the opponent while eating away with a small army.

[Megadeus]

@Double Thalia situation: Thank you for clarifying this! Hmm maybe I should play SCG this weekend. Debating it.



I'd probably run something similar to Vervandi's list.

I've been away from competitive stuff maybe too long. I don't want to throw away an event and embarrass myself.
How come lists no longer run Teeg and Sigarda 1.0? Those were auto included, but perhaps I don't understand some things nowadays.

There's potential in a pure GW list that banks on dork -> 3 drop. With double thalias, you're also capable of locking down the opponent while eating away with a small army.
Agree with everything you've said. My list I've posted could very easily cut red and go to straight GW and be successful I'd think. I'm on 3/3 Thalia Split, Sigarda, and Teeg. Other than miracles I've been pretty successful with the list

[NEELEY]

@Double Thalia situation: Thank you for clarifying this! Hmm maybe I should play SCG this weekend. Debating it.



I'd probably run something similar to Vervandi's list.

I've been away from competitive stuff maybe too long. I don't want to throw away an event and embarrass myself.
How come lists no longer run Teeg and Sigarda 1.0? Those were auto included, but perhaps I don't understand some things nowadays.

There's potential in a pure GW list that banks on dork -> 3 drop. With double thalias, you're also capable of locking down the opponent while eating away with a small army.


All GOOD list run Teeg, I don't know who wouldn't run Teeg with storm and miracles being some
of the best decks in the format. The reason to play black is DRS, not playing it gives you a huge disadvantage. It would be hard to close games without him. Sigarda seems great I just never play anything other than KOTR to keep my curve low and more consistent.

[Vervandi]

Warden,

Keep in mind I am not running Teeg in main because the guys I am playing with don't run anything it would be good against. I would definitely run it main and one in the side going to some sort of real event. It's just a meta call for the small group of people I am playing with, none of which are playing Miracles.

P.S. Karakas came in today. So close to finishing the deck!

[Seraphix]

Warden,

Keep in mind I am not running Teeg in main because the guys I am playing with don't run anything it would be good against. I would definitely run it main and one in the side going to some sort of real event. It's just a meta call for the small group of people I am playing with, none of which are playing Miracles.

P.S. Karakas came in today. So close to finishing the deck!

You said someone in your group is on High Tide? G. Teeg is great in that matchup. They generally have to cast either Turnabout or Time Spiral to start really going off, and Teeg stops both. Sure, they have the answer in game 1 of Wish-->Wipe Away, but he's definitely a pain for them.

[Vervandi]

You said someone in your group is on High Tide? G. Teeg is great in that matchup. They generally have to cast either Turnabout or Time Spiral to start really going off, and Teeg stops both. Sure, they have the answer in game 1 of Wish-->Wipe Away, but he's definitely a pain for them.

I'll definitely keep that in mind, thanks much