[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[warai]

Brainstorm. I kid. Recruiter doesn't help this deck imo. You already have green Sun as a tutor. The deck really just needs miracles to scale back a bit. Mentor can be a real issue. Miracles is just unfavorable and when you know it's close to probably 20% of the field you need a plan. I'm probably bringing in half of my side board at this point for miracles

I agree miracles is unfavoured. Teeg can't shutdown Snap+swords and Mentor taking over the board. More dedicated sideboard is the solution.

Recruiter can fetch for every single creature in the deck so it has to be somewhat good, anyone here tested them?

[ET1]

9 Maverick decks made day 2 in GP Chiba, 0 decks in top 64 sadly. Many D&T though. Could maverick include 2 Recruiter of the guard? What is missing from the deck to be on the top tables?

D&T certainly has a better miracles match-up then we do which is probably why you see D&T in the top 64, but no maverick. Additionally from what I saw on camera as well as the top 64, miracles was everywhere. Having 9 maverick players in the day 2 metagame is a decent share though, the deck is certainly powerful.

[jwl3gg]

What are the best cards to bring in against miracles? Choke, Winter Orb, Ethersworn?

[ET1]

What are the best cards to bring in against miracles? Choke, Winter Orb, Ethersworn?

When boarding against miracles I generally bring in Abrupt decays, maxing out on my equipment (I only play 2 equips main and bring in a Sword of Light and Shadow), choke, garruk relentless and reclamation sage. I don't personally play orbs, but they're certainly a good card to bring in. I then usually board out swords, a wasteland, and a few deathrites.

[Megadeus]

Bring out Deathrites? Why? I usually bring out a few swords, jitte, a knight, and new Thalia.

[ET1]

Bring out Deathrites? Why? I usually bring out a few swords, jitte, a knight, and new Thalia.

I usually board out 2 deathrites due to Rest in Peace being boarded in against us. Deathrite too often has felt very useless in post-board games

Edit: It looks like rest in peace is largely a function of my local meta's miracles players. Seems like most lists don't actually play RIP. I may have to devise a new boarding strategy for a more open meta.

[Thunderknight]

I usually board out 2 deathrites due to Rest in Peace being boarded in against us. Deathrite too often has felt very useless in post-board games

Edit: It looks like rest in peace is largely a function of my local meta's miracles players. Seems like most lists don't actually play RIP. I may have to devise a new boarding strategy for a more open meta.

My solution to combat miracles players is to play cards/combo's that are really really annoying for them to deal.

Thrun for example, is a card that's very annoying for any U/W deck. Pair him with any weapon and its really hard for them to come back, I prefer Light and Shadow in this match-up because recurring back pridemages is annoying for them.

[ET1]

My solution to combat miracles players is to play cards/combo's that are really really annoying for them to deal.

Thrun for example, is a card that's very annoying for any U/W deck. Pair him with any weapon and its really hard for them to come back, I prefer Light and Shadow in this match-up because recurring back pridemages is annoying for them.

I've thought about Thrun in the past, I just don't have enough miracles in my meta to justify the inclusion. I'm currently playing garruk as an anti-miracles card

[nicoleptik]

What do you guys think of Dueling Grounds in the sb to help vs mentor? Could be usefull for other mu too, like elves or other swarm decks

[Thunderknight]

I've thought about Thrun in the past, I just don't have enough miracles in my meta to justify the inclusion. I'm currently playing garruk as an anti-miracles card

That's fair. I know that over here in Maryland. There's a lot of Aggro Loam, miracles, Lands, and Dnt. Thrun solves 3/4 problems.

[Megadeus]

There's not much in the way of miracles here either, I'm just tired of losing to that shitbox deck

[RobNC]

I've thought about Thrun in the past, I just don't have enough miracles in my meta to justify the inclusion. I'm currently playing garruk as an anti-miracles card

Elspeth, Knight Errant is great too, especially if they want to drop a Moat on you.

[Kruser]

hi,
how good is Aven Mindcensor?
I like the idea of playing it in response to cracking a fetchland or playing it end of turn vs miracles.
I have seen it winning a game vs Omnitell, that seemed already lost.
Is it worth 2 sideboard slots?

What do you think?

[warai]

Sanctum Prelate makes Miracles life much harder. With Mom out, just name 6 for Terminus. Without Mom, name 1 for all the can trips and Swords to Plowshares.

If D&T is playing a solid 2/3 Sanctum Prelate I see no reason not to try the same in Maverick.

[JamesFlipside]

Hi all,
I'm a D&T player but looking to build Maverick.
Is there any consensus on a solid Punishing Maverick list to build?

[NEELEY]

hi,
how good is Aven Mindcensor?
I like the idea of playing it in response to cracking a fetchland or playing it end of turn vs miracles.
I have seen it winning a game vs Omnitell, that seemed already lost.
Is it worth 2 sideboard slots?

What do you think?

Aven mindsensor isn't a 3 drop I would run. I think the new Thalia is a better option and more disruptive than aven mindsensor . With that said aven mindsensor is much better vs storm

[jwl3gg]

I need help with coming up with a sideboard for my local meta. I'm currently using Magadeus's build.

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar

4 Swords to Plawshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Bajuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor

My current SB looks like:
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Containment Priest

I need to figure out the last slot, and if the rest look ok. My current meta...


Grixis Delver
Storm
Food Chain
Shardless Bug
4c Loam
Maverick
UR Delver
RUG Delver
Death and Taxes
UWR Stoneblade
Lands
UWR and UW Miracles
Esper Deathblade
Turbo Depths
RB Reanimator 1 w/ 1 w/o Green splash
UB Reanimator
4c Delver

[NEELEY]

Hi all,
I'm a D&T player but looking to build Maverick.
Is there any consensus on a solid Punishing Maverick list to build?

Not having Thalia and a good black splash isn't worth it to me. With that said, the ones that have done well lately look fine. Aggro loam is better imo if you wanna use punishing fire.

[Megadeus]

I need help with coming up with a sideboard for my local meta. I'm currently using Magadeus's build.

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar

4 Swords to Plawshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Bajuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor

My current SB looks like:
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Containment Priest

I need to figure out the last slot, and if the rest look ok. My current meta...


Grixis Delver
Storm
Food Chain
Shardless Bug
4c Loam
Maverick
UR Delver
RUG Delver
Death and Taxes
UWR Stoneblade
Lands
UWR and UW Miracles
Esper Deathblade
Turbo Depths
RB Reanimator 1 w/ 1 w/o Green splash
UB Reanimator
4c Delver
Well fwiw you're better off with verdant catacombs over foothills. Otherwise it's close to what I'm on. Hopefully I'll be off work and I'll get to play in the gpt for Louisville next weekend. I'd say mainly just get some practice in. Deck takes a lot of tough decisions to make too maximize damage and everything

[nedleeds]

hi,
how good is Aven Mindcensor?
I like the idea of playing it in response to cracking a fetchland ...
What do you think?

That is a good idea.

[pettdan]

My current SB looks like:
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Containment Priest

I need to figure out the last slot, and if the rest look ok. My current meta...


Grixis Delver
Storm
Food Chain
Shardless Bug
4c Loam
Maverick
UR Delver
RUG Delver
Death and Taxes
UWR Stoneblade
Lands
UWR and UW Miracles
Esper Deathblade
Turbo Depths
RB Reanimator 1 w/ 1 w/o Green splash
UB Reanimator
4c Delver

It takes a lot of work to figure out a good sideboard, and I still haven't managed to do it in a structured way. Anyway, some questions for you are:

Why 2 Containment Priest? I never use it myself, can't seem to be able to motivate it. In your meta it's only relevant vs Reanimator, right? It seems too slow to me to be really good in that matchup and dedicating two sideboard slots seems much. The same question applies to Grafdigger's Cage. Why not try to choose cards that have an overlap with other matchups? You seem to have a lot of decks using Marit Lage for win condition in your meta but very few sideboard slots that are relevant. Basically only Maze and Surgicals (good answer when coupled with StP or Wasteland), but the Maze isn't that good because if you can fetch Maze in instant speed you could already fetch Karakas/Wasteland. E.g. StP nr 5 (Path) and Surgical nr 3 could be better and useful in other matchups. Also Pithing Needle to some extent.

Regarding the Krosan Grip, I can understand if you want a fourth removal vs Counterbalance which is also incidentally good vs Sensei's Divining Top, and you can bring it in to stop Vial/Equipment from DnT and Esper Deathblade/UWR Stoneblade. I suggest you consider Aura Shards which does the same vs Vial and Equipment and has relevance vs SdT/Counterbalance (fetch Arbor in response to fetch/top activation, also at CMC 3 it's fairly likely to get past a Countertop lock). The advantage of Aura Shards is that vs DnT it singlehandedly stops ~11 cards in their deck (Vial, Mystic, Equipment), vs Esper Deathblade/UWR Stoneblade about 6 cards (Mystic, Equipment, Sylvan?) but the bonus in addition to being stronger in these matchups is that it is great vs Shardless (4 Strix, 4 Shardless, Sylvan?) and Food Chain (4 Strix, 4 Food Chain, Sylvan?), 4c Loam (4 Moxes, 4 Chalices, 1? Sylvan). Furthermore it has the potential to singlehandedly invalidate some artifact/enchantment based strategies such as Tezzeret, Painter, Stax, Enchantress, [edit: MUD too], Pox to some extent.. And you can always make sure to use it with card advantage if you keep a fetch open to fetch Arbor in response to any removal. I've written this before but the meta changes (card advantage by repeated artifact removal may possibly be more relevant now) and people forget. Also worth noting that I don't currently run any of them, but Aura Shards which is also fetchable with Enlightened Tutor (relevant vs artifact based strategies) tends to be my choice [edit: over Grip].

Sword of Fire and Ice is a very good card, it may be worth maindecking and having 2 equipment in the sideboard seems like a lot. I think you're playing Mother no. 4 or Ooze no. 2 over it, consider replacing those.

For the 15th slot maybe consider something with relevance vs Food Chain? You listed it early in the list so you should probably have some sb slot that's strong vs it. Currently the only strong card I can see is Sword of Fire and Ice and that is usually maindecked so it's really more of a disadvantage for your current md/sb configuration. When I win vs Food Chain it often feels like mana disruption is important, I suggest Choke as your 15th sb card. I'm considering Absolute Law as additional help vs bolt heavy decks such as Grixis Delver (and burn), perhaps it could be tested in your meta too, seeing that you listed Grixis Delver at the top..

[Megadeus]

I say revoker. Names food chain. Also good against sneak and show, miracles, storm, dnt.

[jwl3gg]

Thank you so much, playing in a $15 tournament later today and will change them up, thanks!

[jwl3gg]

Thanks guys! Those tips helped so much! Went 2-1-1, finished 4th out of 10, won 20 in store credit.

Round 1, 2-0 vs Food Chain

I honestly thought he was on Shardless until a 3/3 flyer was cast. Was able to get threat down with Jitte game 1. Game 2 took longer, but was won in the same way.

Round 2, 1-1 vs Punishing Jund

I was on the play, and kept a greedy hand. Windswept Heath, Gaea's Cradle, Thalia, Green Sun's Zenith, Qasali, Knight, and Scryb. Cast Green Sun for 0, pass he main phases a bolt to kill my Dryad, I miss several land drops. Game 2 was super long, he wound up with a better boardstate, but Scooze kept me in it, until I was able to mostly clear his board, then started swinging in with a 7/7 Scooze that I equipped with a Batterskull. I won on Turn 2.

Round 3, 0-2 Mono-Red Sneak

Turn 1 Blood Moon locked me out game 1, game 2 was a Turn 1 Magus, I managed to get a Teeg out, but he played another Magus, he starts swinging away and I just take it, while trying to find an out and don't.

Round 4, 2-0 Miracles

I was able to aggro him out before he was able to get going Game 1. Game 2 lasted longer then it should have. I was a bonehead and took out things I should have kept, and forgot to board out Swords. I wound up having 4 Swords in my hand Turn 5. Teeg again was a Workhorse.

[Thunderknight]

What are yall thoughts about splashing blue for Leovold?

[RobNC]

What are yall thoughts about splashing blue for Leovold?

Some guys in the Nic Fit thread are going four colors for him and/or Atraxa. Not sure how four colors (or perhaps, 3.5 colors if you lean away from black) would fit Maverick's somewhat hatebears/toolbox strategy.

[Thunderknight]

Some guys in the Nic Fit thread are going four colors for him and/or Atraxa. Not sure how four colors (or perhaps, 3.5 colors if you lean away from black) would fit Maverick's somewhat hatebears/toolbox strategy.

I feel like we would be able to do blue. For the builds that run Noble/birds can support the splash of blue. he can also be GSZed, so there are ways to bring him from the deck or hand to the battlefield. I was wondering if anyone else brought the idea up.

[pettdan]

I feel like we would be able to do blue. For the builds that run Noble/birds can support the splash of blue. he can also be GSZed, so there are ways to bring him from the deck or hand to the battlefield. I was wondering if anyone else brought the idea up.

I also wanted to run him and started playing him soon after he was legal, haven't played much Maverick lately though so I haven't decided if it's great or not yet.. I think Maverick is perfect for Leovold with Mothers and the hatebear theme. I wrote a little bit about him here:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20612-Deck-GW-x-Maverick&p=979132&viewfull=1#post979132

[Megadeus]

Got top 8 with the deck yesterday at monthly that was also a GPT. Deck as usual felt great. I tried out playing stony silence in the board for miracles and other stuff like DNT. It felt pretty bad. I lost to Shardless, beat BR Reanimator, beat infect, beat BR again, drew with Deadguy, played like shit and lost to Death and Taxes. I feel like I rarely lose unless I make play mistakes. Game 3 against shardless was rough. I got thalia and a couple deathrites out and was choking him a bit on mana, but I only had a dryad arbor as a mana source and he found a deluge and I died. I think I want something else to fight shardless, I just don't know what.

[RobNC]

Got top 8 with the deck yesterday at monthly that was also a GPT. Deck as usual felt great. I tried out playing stony silence in the board for miracles and other stuff like DNT. It felt pretty bad. I lost to Shardless, beat BR Reanimator, beat infect, beat BR again, drew with Deadguy, played like shit and lost to Death and Taxes. I feel like I rarely lose unless I make play mistakes. Game 3 against shardless was rough. I got thalia and a couple deathrites out and was choking him a bit on mana, but I only had a dryad arbor as a mana source and he found a deluge and I died. I think I want something else to fight shardless, I just don't know what.

Were you running SFM and equipment or did you get rid of that to be able to use Stony Silence?

[Megadeus]

I tried without sfm Thursday, but decided to put it back in. I figured most match ups I want stony in, I don't want equipment. It's definitely wrong. The one game I drew it against DnT, I had a jitte and batterskull and my opponent had nothing so it just sat in my hand.

[pettdan]

Got top 8 with the deck yesterday at monthly that was also a GPT. Deck as usual felt great. I tried out playing stony silence in the board for miracles and other stuff like DNT. It felt pretty bad. I lost to Shardless, beat BR Reanimator, beat infect, beat BR again, drew with Deadguy, played like shit and lost to Death and Taxes. I feel like I rarely lose unless I make play mistakes. Game 3 against shardless was rough. I got thalia and a couple deathrites out and was choking him a bit on mana, but I only had a dryad arbor as a mana source and he found a deluge and I died. I think I want something else to fight shardless, I just don't know what.

Not everything speaks in favor of the 5-drops but I think this is one of the matchups where they shine. A resolved Sigarda or Titania can win this matchup pretty much by itself (with removal for Strix or Deathrite respectively). Otherwise land destruction, like you mention, is a good path but I think Thalia by herself may not be enough, so probably bring in Choke/Tsunami/Winter Orb/Geddon. By the way did you play Thalia HC and was she good? T2 Thalia HC might do the trick?

Edit: I also sometimes play two Jittes, they do some serious work in this matchup (as does Sword of Fire and Ice).

[jwl3gg]

Went 2-2 at the weekly legacy tournament, but managed to get my buy-in back.

Match 1: beat Elves 2-0
Turns out THC is absurd against Elves. Got her out turn 2 on the play, and didn't let up. Game 2, turn 1 Mom, turn 2 Ethersworn Cannonist, turn 3 THC and he scoops.

Match 2, lost to RUG Delver, can't remember if it was 0-2 or 1-2. RUG can be oppressive, who ever came up with Stifle needs to be slapped.

Match 3, lost 0-2 Jund. Drew against him last week, this week he got the better draws.

Match 4, 2-0 Burn. Jitte and Scooze gets it done.

[timmyod17]

Hey all, long time Maverick fan and first time poster. Split the finals of an SCG IQ today and wanted to give a brief tournament report.

My List
4 DRS
4 Mom
3 Thalia, GoT
2 SFM
2 QPM
1 Ooze
1 Teeg
1 Scryb
4 KotR
2 Thalia, HC
1 Tireless Tracker

4 STP
4 GSZ
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Jitte
1 SoFaI

4 Windswept Heaths
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous P
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Choke
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Teeg
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Garruk Relentless

The Matches

Rd 1 - Bye (1-0)
Sucks driving 2 hours to an IQ to get a first round bye. Would rather play but a win's a win.

Rd 2 - Merfolk - Loss (1-1)
Gm 1 - Had a weird start with GSZ off basic forest for Arbor, then turn two dropped Cradle and GSZ for Scryb. Topdecked Jitte the next turn and scryb +jitte just machine gunned down his team. Never even drew a white or black mana source and won with a hand full of useless Thalias and such.
Gm 2 - TNN sucks.
Gm 3 - Assembled scryb + jitte combo again but eventually he got 2x TNN. Had Library going and managed to draw not one, but two, ZP's. Both would have killed both TNNs, but both got forced.

Rd 3 - Grixis Delver - Win (2-1)
Gm 1 - He got young pyro out and started making tokens but not much else going on. A scryb shut down the lone delver he got out. Eventually it became a board stall and I got a giant ooze in play and he ran out of tokens to chump block.
Gm 2 - Got crushed by the aggressive delver start after keeping a sketchy one lander.
Gm 3 - He mulled to 5 and I had the nuts. DRS, then waste + thalia, then KotR on turn 3.

Rd 4 - D&T - Win (3-1)
Need to win to get in.
Gm 1 - He drew all four of his vials within the first few turns and had basically no action. Mom + scryb is pretty strong here.
Gm 2 - I answered his equips and had my own jitte going. He managed to resolve a cataclysm though, but i still kept DRS equipped with jitte, a land, and a library. Eventually jitte mowed down his guys and we got there.

Top 8 - vs BUG Delver
Gm 1 - Played around daze, killed his guys, resolved a mom, and beat him down with a big knight.
Gm 2 - He stumbled on lands, and my draw punished him. DRS into wasteland + thalia is pretty hard to come back from.

Top 4 - vs D&T
Same guy I played in Rd 4. Games were also lopsided here.
Gm 1 - Mom + Scryb with jitte dominated the board. He tried to equip his own jitte but I was always able to kill the equipped creature and eventually the jitte itself. Teeg even did his part by preventing him from hardcasting a batterskull.
Gm 2 - Grindy, but again won the jitte battle, library found me all the right answers, and then cast a ZP which wiped his board and let me alpha strike for lethal.

Finals - vs Merfolk
Same guy I lost to in round 2. We agreed to split prizes and just play for the invite.
Gm 1 - Got totally swarmed while stumbling on lands. He gets a few lords. I resolved my scryb ranger and then managed to get it equipped with a sword but can't shoot any of his guys down due to all the lords. Eventually he gets a TNN and I'm in trouble. Managed to draw a STP off a sword trigger, and take out both his lords in the process as I had dealt the damage from the sword trigger to one of his lords. DRS keeps my head above water in the life total as TNN hits for three each turn, but I lose the race when I run out of creatures in graveyards.
Gm 2 - Take a mull to 5. I needle naming vial. Then I resolve mom and ooze and library in my first few turns. Then he drops two needles, shutting those off. Then he draws a few lords in a row and i have to trade both creatures for one of his lords. I get scryb on board, but he's got a lord and a mutavault and I take a few hits from the land. My life total is low and I draw ZP, so I ZP and trade my scryb for his mutavault and go to 1 life. I draw a few creatures (DRS, mom) to chump his remaining lord for a few turns but then draw a blank and lose.

Thoughts
-Scryb Ranger was my MVP all day. I had nearly cut it before the event, and quite glad I didn't. It made all my other creatures better and was a force on offense and defense and great with equipment.
-Obviously only faced "fair decks" but I am geared to beat fair decks and usually feel favored. You know, until it starts raining TNNs. But I was glad to have avoided miracles.
-Sylvan Library is amazing in fair matchups. Since I'm no longer running Cavern of Souls (the reason I have Tracker in the list was due to having Cavern and a little humans theme), perhaps should add back in Courser. Courser + Library just basically feels like cheating when you get it going.

Welcome comments on the list.

[NEELEY]

Hey all, long time Maverick fan and first time poster. Split the finals of an SCG IQ today and wanted to give a brief tournament report.

My List
4 DRS
4 Mom
3 Thalia, GoT
2 SFM
2 QPM
1 Ooze
1 Teeg
1 Scryb
4 KotR
2 Thalia, HC
1 Tireless Tracker

4 STP
4 GSZ
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Jitte
1 SoFaI

4 Windswept Heaths
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous P
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Choke
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Teeg
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Garruk Relentless

The Matches

Rd 1 - Bye (1-0)
Sucks driving 2 hours to an IQ to get a first round bye. Would rather play but a win's a win.

Rd 2 - Merfolk - Loss (1-1)
Gm 1 - Had a weird start with GSZ off basic forest for Arbor, then turn two dropped Cradle and GSZ for Scryb. Topdecked Jitte the next turn and scryb +jitte just machine gunned down his team. Never even drew a white or black mana source and won with a hand full of useless Thalias and such.
Gm 2 - TNN sucks.
Gm 3 - Assembled scryb + jitte combo again but eventually he got 2x TNN. Had Library going and managed to draw not one, but two, ZP's. Both would have killed both TNNs, but both got forced.

Rd 3 - Grixis Delver - Win (2-1)
Gm 1 - He got young pyro out and started making tokens but not much else going on. A scryb shut down the lone delver he got out. Eventually it became a board stall and I got a giant ooze in play and he ran out of tokens to chump block.
Gm 2 - Got crushed by the aggressive delver start after keeping a sketchy one lander.
Gm 3 - He mulled to 5 and I had the nuts. DRS, then waste + thalia, then KotR on turn 3.

Rd 4 - D&T - Win (3-1)
Need to win to get in.
Gm 1 - He drew all four of his vials within the first few turns and had basically no action. Mom + scryb is pretty strong here.
Gm 2 - I answered his equips and had my own jitte going. He managed to resolve a cataclysm though, but i still kept DRS equipped with jitte, a land, and a library. Eventually jitte mowed down his guys and we got there.

Top 8 - vs BUG Delver
Gm 1 - Played around daze, killed his guys, resolved a mom, and beat him down with a big knight.
Gm 2 - He stumbled on lands, and my draw punished him. DRS into wasteland + thalia is pretty hard to come back from.

Top 4 - vs D&T
Same guy I played in Rd 4. Games were also lopsided here.
Gm 1 - Mom + Scryb with jitte dominated the board. He tried to equip his own jitte but I was always able to kill the equipped creature and eventually the jitte itself. Teeg even did his part by preventing him from hardcasting a batterskull.
Gm 2 - Grindy, but again won the jitte battle, library found me all the right answers, and then cast a ZP which wiped his board and let me alpha strike for lethal.

Finals - vs Merfolk
Same guy I lost to in round 2. We agreed to split prizes and just play for the invite.
Gm 1 - Got totally swarmed while stumbling on lands. He gets a few lords. I resolved my scryb ranger and then managed to get it equipped with a sword but can't shoot any of his guys down due to all the lords. Eventually he gets a TNN and I'm in trouble. Managed to draw a STP off a sword trigger, and take out both his lords in the process as I had dealt the damage from the sword trigger to one of his lords. DRS keeps my head above water in the life total as TNN hits for three each turn, but I lose the race when I run out of creatures in graveyards.
Gm 2 - Take a mull to 5. I needle naming vial. Then I resolve mom and ooze and library in my first few turns. Then he drops two needles, shutting those off. Then he draws a few lords in a row and i have to trade both creatures for one of his lords. I get scryb on board, but he's got a lord and a mutavault and I take a few hits from the land. My life total is low and I draw ZP, so I ZP and trade my scryb for his mutavault and go to 1 life. I draw a few creatures (DRS, mom) to chump his remaining lord for a few turns but then draw a blank and lose.

Thoughts
-Scryb Ranger was my MVP all day. I had nearly cut it before the event, and quite glad I didn't. It made all my other creatures better and was a force on offense and defense and great with equipment.
-Obviously only faced "fair decks" but I am geared to beat fair decks and usually feel favored. You know, until it starts raining TNNs. But I was glad to have avoided miracles.
-Sylvan Library is amazing in fair matchups. Since I'm no longer running Cavern of Souls (the reason I have Tracker in the list was due to having Cavern and a little humans theme), perhaps should add back in Courser. Courser + Library just basically feels like cheating when you get it going.

Welcome comments on the list.

Great finish! Merfolk can be quite tough or very easy. TNN draws are hard to deal with. Main suggestion is to add a noble in the list, you want a 5th mana dork, the exalted and the guaranteed mana. New Thalia still feels meh to me, a lot of death and taxes and karakas makes it less appealing to me.

[timmyod17]

Yesterday I braved the snowy roads to drive 4 hours to play in an event for a bunch of dual lands. I played the same 75 that I ran in the IQ last weekend.

Round 1 - Esper/4c Deathblade - Win (1-0)

Gm 1 I got wasted and stuck on one land and he landed a TNN, leading to a pretty quick scoop.
Gm 2 He again landed a TNN plus noble hierarch and was laying down the beats. I fought back with my mother pus DRS plus jitte and drew a timely ZP, which resolved. He assembled another noble + TNN and i topdecked another timely ZP for the win.
Gm 3 I went big this game and resolved turn 3 knight with my opponent not doing much. This was followed by another knight and then a tracker. Scryb ranger joined the board and I wasted my opponent into nothingness and killed him with giant knights.

Round 2 - Shardless BUG - Win (2-0)
Gm 1 Had the classic Maverick start which punished my opponent who mulled. Turn 1 DRS into turn 2 thalia plus wasteland. Opponent could not recover after that.
Gm 2 Was super grindy and more typical of this matchup. Resolved Mom, both thalias, and then a tireless tracker against his team. Played a needle naming Liliana and proceeded to make clue tokens. He killed my jitte and then played a null rod. It didn't occur to either of us that clue tokens are artifacts (whoops) and I had drawn 3 cards before somebody watching the match pointed this out. We each got game rules violations and warnings. By this point I was too far ahead for him to come back. I felt kind of bad and will use the actual clue tokens from now on instead of the SCG promo ones; perhaps that will avoid this problem in future matches.


Round 3 - Lands - Win (3-0)

Gm 1 I got ghost quartered into oblivion and my opponent found tabernacle. Yuck.
Gm 2 Resolved turn 2 knight which was outside of punishing fire range. Kept him low on resources, resolved a second knight, and used mother of runes to both my knights pro green so they could swing past his sideboard tireless trackers. Turns out maze of ith is not so strong against active knights :)
Gm 3 Pretty similar to the second game. Had 2 knights and a tracker vs his two trackers. He nearly blew me out in combat with crop rotation into bojuka bog but I had removal for his guys and was just too far ahead.

Round 4 - Doomsday - Win (4-0)

Gm 1 Kept Mom + GSZ + Library and a few lands in the dark on the draw. Became apparent he was on combo of some sort by turn 2 but I topdecked a thalia on my 2nd turn and that set him back enough for me to chip away his life total before he could go off. At this point assumed he was on storm for sideboarding purposes.
Gm 2 Kept a hand with Thoughtseize, Teeg, ZP, Karakas, Bayou, and a few other cards. Took his LED and left him with a gitaxian probe and burning wish he couldn't cast, then landed turn 2 Teeg. A few other guys joined and he wasn't able to assemble his combo.

Round 5 - Intentional Draw (4-0-1)
My opponent and I locked up #1 and #2 seeds for the top 8. Feeling pretty good as we're both walking away with dual lands.

Top 8 - Eldrazi - Win (5-0-1)
Gm 1 Being on the play due to being the #2 seed really helps. I land a turn one DRS before he gets down a chalice for 1. Thalia and knight join my side and I start the mana denial plan and leave him with a few mishra's factories, an endless one, and a matter reshaper. I draw, play, and equip SoFaI on Thalia and he is forced to chump away his team over the next few turns before he scoops.
Gm 2 My opponent mulls to 5 and leads with Ancient Tomb into endless one for 2. I lead with DRS into turn 2 knight. He plays a few lands and I get a tracker and Thalia, Heretic Cathar with a jitte and a few other things. He comes close to being able to cast all is dust, which I assume is in his deck and probably his only out, so I GSZ for scryb ranger and double wasteland him with my knight and he scoops.

Top 4 - Miracles - Loss (5-1-1)
I had to run into Miracles eventually I suppose. He narrowly beat a storm player to advance to face me :/
Gm 1 - I steadily beat him down with a QPM and conserve resources. Eventually he clears the board and resolves a mentor but I've had 2 StP's stranded in my hand. He tries to go off with multiple SDT's but I StP in response to the first one, which gets a counterspell, which I respond to with another StP that resolves. This leaves him with 2 tokens against my Thalia, HC. He is at 5 life and I swing into his tokens with abrupt decay in hand. He double blocks, spins top and in response taps top to draw. I think for a while and let this resolve. He then casts predict (his only card in hand) pumping his guys and drawing 2, and I respond by decaying one of his tokens to save my Thalia. Unfortunately he drew a Jace off the predict, and that was good enough to bounce my Thalia and take over the game.
Gm 2 - I keep a relatively greedy (high risk, high reward hand) with Horizon Canopy, Needle, Thalia GoT x2, Teeg, QPM, and Sylvan Library. Resolve turn 1 needle on SDT, miss my second land drop, but draw bayou on turn 3. Here I have many options but decide to go with Thalia as I have since drawn a third copy. She gets plowed, I play another next turn which gets counterspelled. I'm convinced he has FoW or more removal so I don't want to waste my Library or Teeg, which is probably a mistake in hindsight. In the meantime he has been hitting all his land drops and casts wear on my needle freeing up his SDT. I landed a mom, which is active, and cast a teeg, but in response he uses top to instantly cast terminus. My teeg resolves and then he StP's it. He untaps, resolves a mentor, then goes off with multiple SDT's and I scoop.

Thoughts:
- 3rd place out of about 30 players. Pretty glad I made the trip as I walked away with a shiny new Bayou :)
- Miracles feels like a hopeless matchup. I put my win rate against Miracles at about 10%. My sideboard plan for this matchup is -4 StP, -1 Wasteland, -1 Ooze, +1 Decay, +1 Garruk, +1 Prelate, +1 Needle, +1 Teeg, +1 Choke. These cards are good but not great as Miracles is just so resistant to hate. I think we just have to accept this is a terrible matchup and not devote too many sideboard slots to fight it. It's 10-15% of the meta roughly and our resources are better used to hate out other decks instead.
- I still feel like I've always got a shot against every "fair" deck in the format. When I untap with an active knight, I feel like I can't lose.
- Both Thalias were strong today and the first strike is just so under rated. Tireless Tracker was similarly strong against fair decks.
- Because Maverick isn't a huge part of the metagame, folks don't prepare for it and often don't know what the deck is capable of doing.

[Whitefaces]

Has anybody tried splashing for Leovold? With Mother of Runes, Safekeeper, Teeg etc to protect him it seems quite potent.

Something along the lines of

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Mother of Runes
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Quasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Atraxa, Preators Voice / Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Gaea’s Cradle
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest

Manabase is a bit of a mess, but threw this list together to get a general idea.

EDIT: Holy shit, Captain Sisay could be wonderful in this deck.

[Thunderknight]

So I've experimented Leovold, and I can honestly say that its really good against other fair, grindy decks. Combo decks no so mauch, and it helps a little bit with Miracles.

I won't run more than a 1, simply because he's legendary and we run GSZ to get him.

Safekeeper is an absolute house against any Delver-variant. However I recommend if you are going to run her, I cutted a mom for her. So that way you aren't completely housed out by a turn one chalice.



Has anybody tried splashing for Leovold? With Mother of Runes, Safekeeper, Teeg etc to protect him it seems quite potent.

Something along the lines of

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Mother of Runes
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Quasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Atraxa, Preators Voice / Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Gaea’s Cradle
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest

Manabase is a bit of a mess, but threw this list together to get a general idea.

EDIT: Holy shit, Captain Sisay could be wonderful in this deck.

[Megadeus]

Safekeeper + Knight basically means your opponent is chumping or they die. It's pretty sick. Some people don't see it either and you just geddon yourself and win

[Whitefaces]

Safekeeper + Knight basically means your opponent is chumping or they die. It's pretty sick. Some people don't see it either and you just geddon yourself and win

Yep, love this little guy!


So I've experimented Leovold, and I can honestly say that its really good against other fair, grindy decks. Combo decks no so mauch, and it helps a little bit with Miracles.

I won't run more than a 1, simply because he's legendary and we run GSZ to get him.

Safekeeper is an absolute house against any Delver-variant. However I recommend if you are going to run her, I cutted a mom for her. So that way you aren't completely housed out by a turn one chalice.

Four is probably a little over the top, I'll agree, I'm just really into the card at the moment. But it's something I want to be slamming T2 every game rather than just a GSZ target I think, or at least I'll start out testing like that. I'm sure I'll end up dropping one or two at some point. I've found him to be pretty good vs combo though, turning off cantrips is big game, it should give us time to get a Teeg or Thalia down at least.

Interesting point on Safekeeper taking the slot of a Mother of Runes, I hadn't thought of that and it makes sense. I did want to get a Scryb Ranger in here too.

[Thunderknight]

Now if you wanna be ballsy, run Life of the Loam so that way you have recursion of lands. Also it's really funny when you strip mine them to death. I'm actually thinking about running 1x Ghost quarter.


Yep, love this little guy!



Four is probably a little over the top, I'll agree, I'm just really into the card at the moment. But it's something I want to be slamming T2 every game rather than just a GSZ target I think, or at least I'll start out testing like that. I'm sure I'll end up dropping one or two at some point. I've found him to be pretty good vs combo though, turning off cantrips is big game, it should give us time to get a Teeg or Thalia down at least.

Interesting point on Safekeeper taking the slot of a Mother of Runes, I hadn't thought of that and it makes sense. I did want to get a Scryb Ranger in here too.

[Whitefaces]

Now if you wanna be ballsy, run Life of the Loam so that way you have recursion of lands. Also it's really funny when you strip mine them to death. I'm actually thinking about running 1x Ghost quarter.

There's a list on MTG Goldfish that just went 5-0 with a Loam and Ghost Quarter, they come as a package I think. He also has two Sylvan Library to find the Loam better. It's a bit of a different direction to a build with Leovold, but it looks very strong vs Miracles.

[Irocksandals]

So everyone posting in hear about playing Leovold; how successful has he been in play or has most of it been just theory. My concern is the 4th color. I've been playing Maverick for a while and plan on taking it to GP Louisville in January. With the popularity of Wasteland decks right now I just see it being extremely clunky adding that 4th color. Plus in my playtest experience it just gets singled out.

Im honestly looking for opinions, hell prove me wrong. I'm looking to bring the best deck to the GP so what I'm really looking for is a good discussion. And to add to it here is my current list for critique.

// Deck: Maverick (61)

// Lands
2 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Tireless Tracker

// Instants
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

// Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith

// Enchantments
2 Sylvan Library

// Artifacts
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

// Planeswalkers
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution

[Togores]

Its a powerfull card, I played it but its not really awesome. At least not in legacy. I tested it a few events and never amazed me...

[warai]

So everyone posting in hear about playing Leovold; how successful has he been in play or has most of it been just theory. My concern is the 4th color. I've been playing Maverick for a while and plan on taking it to GP Louisville in January. With the popularity of Wasteland decks right now I just see it being extremely clunky adding that 4th color. Plus in my playtest experience it just gets singled out.

Im honestly looking for opinions, hell prove me wrong. I'm looking to bring the best deck to the GP so what I'm really looking for is a good discussion. And to add to it here is my current list for critique.

// Deck: Maverick (61)

// Lands
2 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Tireless Tracker

// Instants
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

// Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith

// Enchantments
2 Sylvan Library

// Artifacts
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

// Planeswalkers
1 Nissa, Vital Force

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution

Some comments:

Nissa - Without having Cradle is a resource intensive card that doesn't win you or provide any hate in the boards. Has she been any good?
Reclamation Sage - Qasali is a better card overall, ETB trigger is cool but exalted wins imo.
Tireless Tracker - Knight of Reliquary is already your beater, how has Tracker been performing for you?
Thalia, Heretic Cathar - Excellent card on the draw, not so good on the play. I am playing as a one of.
Deathrite - You should have at least one more mana dork - birds if you play Leovold, Hierarch otherwise

Lately I have been playing with both Leovold and Sanctum Prelate maindeck.

Adding Leovold gives you win percentage vs Brainstorm and D&T decks which is always good, as a tutorable one of it has been perfect however Wasteland can give us a hard time. Sanctum Prelate is a beast card overall vs a huge percentage of the field. To support this, I cut 1 Knight and play more basics. Might cut some land to add cavern though.

Here is my decklist - 4c Leovold/Prelate Maverick:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Dryad Arbor

2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Sylvan Library

4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island

SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Sanctum Prelate

[Irocksandals]

What cmc's are you finding yourself most commonly using with Sanctum Prelate and what decks has he shown the best results against?

Nissa has been great in both my testing as well as my friends testing. She's just another threat thats hard to deal nwith she's been great against Eldrazi and Miracles. I honestly can't see cutting Knight he's just another huge threat. The deck has always walked a fine line of D&T and Mid-range beatdown but yours is more 4c D&T (where as mine is Mid-range. Which by no means is a bad thing. I'm j just looking for more detailed critique as in why people are playing and what those cards pros are.

[Seraphix]

So everyone posting in hear about playing Leovold; how successful has he been in play or has most of it been just theory. My concern is the 4th color. I've been playing Maverick for a while and plan on taking it to GP Louisville in January. With the popularity of Wasteland decks right now I just see it being extremely clunky adding that 4th color. Plus in my playtest experience it just gets singled out.

Im honestly looking for opinions, hell prove me wrong. I'm looking to bring the best deck to the GP so what I'm really looking for is a good discussion. And to add to it here is my current list for critique.

...

List

...


I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen more Maverick decks splashing Leovold. Tons of decks are doing so but he arguably slots into Maverick the best since the Shamans/Hierarchs we already play help cast him and we have GSZ. You could probably just play a single Trop and get along fine. I haven't played with the card myself yet, but I'm sure it's quite powerful.

[warai]

What cmc's are you finding yourself most commonly using with Sanctum Prelate and what decks has he shown the best results against?

Nissa has been great in both my testing as well as my friends testing. She's just another threat thats hard to deal nwith she's been great against Eldrazi and Miracles. I honestly can't see cutting Knight he's just another huge threat. The deck has always walked a fine line of D&T and Mid-range beatdown but yours is more 4c D&T (where as mine is Mid-range. Which by no means is a bad thing. I'm j just looking for more detailed critique as in why people are playing and what those cards pros are.

Delver - 1cmc
Shardless - 0 or 1 or 2 cmc
Storm - 1 or 4 cmc
Miracles - 1 or 6 cmc
Aluren - 4 cmc
Grixis - 1 or 2 cmc
D&T - 1 cmc but card is horrible here
Loam / punishing decks - 2 cmc
SnT - 3 or 4 cmc

Card is insane against anything except eldrazi and death and taxes. Also is a very skill intensive card and requires you to know the metagame quite well.

Maverick as midrange deck is not strong enough when compared to other choices. Having more hate bears is adequate in a Miracles, SnT and Bug decks meta.

[warai]

I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen more Maverick decks splashing Leovold. Tons of decks are doing so but he arguably slots into Maverick the best since the Shamans/Hierarchs we already play help cast him and we have GSZ. You could probably just play a single Trop and get along fine. I haven't played with the card myself yet, but I'm sure it's quite powerful.

The problem is Maverick is not super popular right now because D&T got Recruiter making the deck a toolbox one and Miracles is a very hard matchup. Leovold is super good but makes the mana base clunkier.

[ET1]

Playing Leovold seems a bit too greedy to me, against wasteland decks I often find it hard to cast my abrupt decays, having to hard cast a leovold definitely seems like a challenge. It would definitely be interesting to hear what people think of him after a bit more testing, he seems pretty good against grindy decks like miracles and shardless, but the 4th color splash + the 3cmc slot already being pretty crowded make me hesitant to try it myself.

[Togores]

why is leovold good vs taxes? Because you get to draw? using 3 mana to draw a card and just get it bounced with karakas is a so huge tempo swing that I think is not easy to afford...

[Irocksandals]

why is leovold good vs taxes? Because you get to draw? using 3 mana to draw a card and just get it bounced with karakas is a so huge tempo swing that I think is not easy to afford...


What do you mean "just bounced by Karakas" there's also StP, Abrupt Decay, Dismember, and Bolt.
And again is there any tourney reports with him in their deck?
I haven't seen any and from my testing of a 4th color it just seems clunky as other people have said.

[RobNC]

why is leovold good vs taxes? Because you get to draw? using 3 mana to draw a card and just get it bounced with karakas is a so huge tempo swing that I think is not easy to afford...

Do you mean against Death & Taxes? Well besides bouncing with Karakas, they also could remove it with Swords to Plowshares, either of which would draw you a card (yes, not ideal for you only netting 1 card). But it shines when they don't have those because suddenly they don't want to Port or Wasteland you, which is half their game plan, and even if they do you just keep drawing cards. Leovold is one of the last creatures D&T wants to see outside of probably TNN. If the D&T player can't Plow it on sight then it really sets them back.

[Togores]

Its ok when d&t plows it.
But when I played him. I just had to never play it out just because it was a 3 'ana loss tor his 3x karkas.
And if the port plan is good and you have a leovold then your in good position. Usualy I have always beat with maverik D&T without any problems...

[Megadeus]

I just like that it's a pretty good card against Shardless. I'll be playing maverick at the GP. I'd like to day 2 at least. The two big decks I feel unfavored against that I want a bit of game for are Miracles and Shartless. How's this sideboard look with two decay main already and BSkull and Jitte as mainboard weapons?

1 Garruk Relentless.
2 Choke
1 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Scavenging Ooze (one main as well)
1 Abrupt Decay (3 in the 75)
1 Life from the Loam

[ET1]

I just like that it's a pretty good card against Shardless. I'll be playing maverick at the GP. I'd like to day 2 at least. The two big decks I feel unfavored against that I want a bit of game for are Miracles and Shartless. How's this sideboard look with two decay main already and BSkull and Jitte as mainboard weapons?

1 Garruk Relentless.
2 Choke
1 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Scavenging Ooze (one main as well)
1 Abrupt Decay (3 in the 75)
1 Life from the Loam

Are you running the dark depths combo? If not I'm not huge on the life from the loam in the sideboard. I also am not the biggest fan of faerie macabre and think those would be better as an additional surgical and a containment priest. I believe both of those just have a bit more utility versus some of the combo match-ups like sneak & show. If you were to make that switch I think thoughtseize looks a bit better than durress, mainly just to strip BR reanimator of all of their griselbrands in the case that they have two reanimation spells in hand. Although Macabre certainly has good applications, i think surgical and containment priest have more utility in a more open meta.

Additionally whats been the issue with shardless? I have not had much issue with shardless, most of our cards are all pretty good against them.

[Irocksandals]

I just like that it's a pretty good card against Shardless. I'll be playing maverick at the GP. I'd like to day 2 at least. The two big decks I feel unfavored against that I want a bit of game for are Miracles and Shartless. How's this sideboard look with two decay main already and BSkull and Jitte as mainboard weapons?

1 Garruk Relentless.
2 Choke
1 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Scavenging Ooze (one main as well)
1 Abrupt Decay (3 in the 75)
1 Life from the Loam

I got away from batterskull if they kill your SfM it's really hard to play but onto your S/B.

Thoughtseize is just better than duress. I bring it in against Combo and control where you're life total doesn't matter but their card quality does. So having the option to take a tiny snapcaster mage, heritage druid, or their Griselbrand is great flexibility.

Without knowing your maindeck I'd move the SoFI main. And replace the 3rd Decay with something like Krosan Grip. Moat is becoming popular with Miracles and Aluren is becoming a thing.

[ironclad8690]

Best card against shardless for me is sylvan library. Armageddon can take the place of choke, once you have a board presence vs midrange/control you just pop the lands and go to town without fear of a sweeper or planeswalker.

[Megadeus]

I do like the thought of Geddon. I dunno if it's a bad match up. It's just super close and I feel like they have better side board cards than we do. I just was thinking if there's some sort of big haymaker. Maybe I'll throw a Sigarda in the board if I can find space

What do you guys think about bringing in a surgical against Show and Tell? Worth it if I go up to a third discard spell? Is mom even worth it against them since they run sudden shock and kozileks return?

[Irocksandals]

I do like the thought of Geddon. I dunno if it's a bad match up. It's just super close and I feel like they have better side board cards than we do. I just was thinking if there's some sort of big haymaker. Maybe I'll throw a Sigarda in the board if I can find space

What do you guys think about bringing in a surgical against Show and Tell? Worth it if I go up to a third discard spell? Is mom even worth it against them since they run sudden shock and kozileks return?

In my testing anything WW can be taxing on you against a good wasteland deck, so bringing in Sigarda or Gideon can be hard to play and keep up protection. I like them both just keep that in mind. Against SnS decks i take out Moms and spot removal so anything like thoughtseize and surgical are an upgrade.

[RobNC]

What do you target with Surgical against S&T/SnS decks?

[ET1]

What do you target with Surgical against S&T/SnS decks?

ideally you thoughtseize away a show and tell/sneak attack and surgical it. Alternatively you thoughtseize something less relevant that they have 2 of in hand, such as brainstorm/ponder/petal/etc. It's generally good disruption. I used it against sneak and show at my local legacy tournament last week to disrupt a release the ants combo, luckily they shuffled and then had a land on top.

[Thunderknight]

Some of my assessment with leovold.
-Miracles: They must answer it or else they can'tr really advance. Considering the amount of draw spells/activiations they use, it slows them down enough for us to get ahead.

-Lands: I understand the issue of wasteland/ghost quarter, but as long as you have an active DRS/Knight. Getting him out is fine. he did draw me a STP when my opponent was going to make a 20/20. I felt that it was a meh card aganist this match-up.

-Death n Taxes: My roommate got tilted when he activated his ports targeting my lands, and I just draw more cards.

-Shardless, It really helps in this match-up. It improves the match-up vastly and they now have to think about every discard/removal spells, Lilly activation.

-Eldarzi, does nothing

-Sneak and Show - slows down there draws, and Grislebrand

-Aggro Loam - Similar to Lands

This is what I'll be bringing to Louisville.
4 Knight of the Reqliury
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thabern
3 Deathrite shaman
3 Mother of Runes
2 Qasli Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Grim Flayer
1 Scrub Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Noble Heirach
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Life of the Loam
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wastelands
4 Windswepth Health
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Plains

Sideboard:
2 Choke
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ethersworn Caonist
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Cabal Therapies/Thoughtseize
1 Garruk Rentless/Nissa, Vital Force
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Thrun, The Last Troll/Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Worm Harvest/Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojukia Box/Surgical Extraction.

[Megadeus]

Yeah Surgical after a discard spell on one of their ways to cheat things in is nice, even hitting a brainstorm or ponder isn't the worst. I think it's worth a slot since there's enough that doesn't do anything. I'm not too worried about the match up to be honest though. It's pretty easy and I know how to navigate games against it. I think I'm going to go up to 3 discard side board though and maybe cut a bear of some sort for the GP.

I don't like the mana base of that leovold list. A ghost quarter, cradle and a maze of ith while on four colors with only 4 mana dorks plus Green Sun seems super greedy to me at least

[nGoldenX]

Hey everyone, I've recently picked up Maverick and was wondering why people don't play Tarmogoyf. It seems pretty good most of the time, and I like the ability to play more good two drops for t2 with Wasteland. Anyway, I haven't played with this deck much but I have a light red splash for Bloodbraid Elf because I really like that card and for some Bolts in the sideboard. Here's my list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mom
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas

My sideboard is adjusted to what I know of my meta. What should I change about my maindeck?

[warai]

Hey everyone, I've recently picked up Maverick and was wondering why people don't play Tarmogoyf. It seems pretty good most of the time, and I like the ability to play more good two drops for t2 with Wasteland. Anyway, I haven't played with this deck much but I have a light red splash for Bloodbraid Elf because I really like that card and for some Bolts in the sideboard. Here's my list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mom
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas

My sideboard is adjusted to what I know of my meta. What should I change about my maindeck?

Tarmogoyf is just out of the whole deck philosophy, he is a beater that provides nothing besides being a beater.

This deck grinds out and creates complicated boardstates for the opponent. Also, we already have a big body in KotR.

[ironclad8690]

It looks like you have cut knight and Thalia to make room for goyfs. These are two cards that very directly lead to wins for me, so i have to wonder about the choice to cut them. Goyf beats, but more often than not i'd rather just search up a wasteland or tax my opp. If all goes according to plan we should only really have lands and maybe a creature and/or instant in yard. Goyf only 3/4 or 4/5 mostly doesn't cut it.

[nGoldenX]

Alright that makes sense about Goyf. Thanks for clarifying. I'll probably be going up a Knight and adding a Scooze in place of them. Also, I had thought thought 3 Knight 3 Thalia was the typical config so I guess I was mistaken.

[Megadeus]

I've considered a Goof because sometimes I just want to Green sun for a big dude on turn 2, but it's generally better to simply get a scooze or prideman

[ironclad8690]

Alright that makes sense about Goyf. Thanks for clarifying. I'll probably be going up a Knight and adding a Scooze in place of them. Also, I had thought thought 3 Knight 3 Thalia was the typical config so I guess I was mistaken.

Typical config is generally 4 Knight, 4 Thalia. Thalia is just a beastly beast vs everything but D&T, Eldrazi (arguable because once equipped with a Sword all their dudes are scared), TNN.decs, and Elves (and she is still good in some of those matches, just not game breaking like vs 4 Brainstorm 4 Ponder.dec)

Knight is your power, I wouldn't go below 4 unless I really needed to squeeze in some tech. In the winter of 2012 when literally everyone was playing bug of some sort I cut one to be able to play 3 Mirran Crusader, and I actually won more than I should have because of it. With Eldrazi and Gurmag in the meta though I think 4 Knight is best.

---

In other news, I have played 2 leages with Punishing Mav, 1st with Fabian's latest list (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/534101#online), and then with my own version (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/534375#online) which attempts to go the Thomas Herzog and/or consistency route.

I went 2-3 in the first:

Omnisneak: 0-2 (fuck you Kozilek, stop returning!)
Grixis Delver: 0-2 (bricked on lands g1 for a few turns, crucial punishing fire got FOW'ed and army of Pyro tokens got me g2)
Sneak and Show: 2-0
Monogreen Cloudpost: 0-2 (I got turn 2 knight both games and wastelanded as soon as I could, but crop rotation g1 made 1 wasteland null and I got nulamoged immediately after. g2 I just got Candelabra'd)
Sneak and Show: 2-1

2nd League 3-2:

Sneak and Show: 1-2 (KOZILEK STAHP RETURNING)
Shardless: 1-2 (game 3 he cast 3 ancestral visions, he pretty much could have done anything and won)
Grixis Control: 2-0
Infect: 2-1
Death and Taxes: 2-0

If I continue to run into Sneak decks in these numbers I might just forgo the tutor board and play 3 Banishing Light, 2 Needle/1 Revoker, and maybe a couple Pyroblast/REB. I am really feeling the blues (pun intended) for not playing the red blasts these last couple of leagues, and I feel I am honing in on the MTGO meta.

I hope to stream some P Mav tomorrow morning round 7 AM PST. Twitch.tv/Adelorenzi

[ET1]

Hey everyone, I've recently picked up Maverick and was wondering why people don't play Tarmogoyf. It seems pretty good most of the time, and I like the ability to play more good two drops for t2 with Wasteland. Anyway, I haven't played with this deck much but I have a light red splash for Bloodbraid Elf because I really like that card and for some Bolts in the sideboard. Here's my list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mom
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Plateau
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas

My sideboard is adjusted to what I know of my meta. What should I change about my maindeck?

How often have you cascaded into GSZ with bloodbraid after having drawn/gsz the singleton dryad arbor? Doubt it comes up much, but that is definitely a scenario that seems tilt inducing.

I used to run a singleton goyf as it was stellar against many of the fair decks, but Ido believe that the 4th thalia and 4th knight are far better.

[Irocksandals]

If I continue to run into Sneak decks in these numbers I might just forgo the tutor board and play 3 Banishing Light, 2 Needle/1 Revoker, and maybe a couple Pyroblast/REB. I am really feeling the blues (pun intended) for not playing the red blasts these last couple of leagues, and I feel I am honing in on the MTGO meta.

I hope to stream some P Mav tomorrow morning round 7 AM PST. Twitch.tv/Adelorenzi

If you're gonna play the Red splash i dont see why not to play REB/pyro they'd seldom be dead cards.

[razamarth]

Hi, everyone's.
I playing Maverick something like 4-5 years. I'm regular back to this deck and modify some stuff, zenith's targets etc.
Actually playing and testing one of my precious build.

Now, little history. :)

2011/2012 First build, first steps into legacy.
I'm build my first maverick using cards from old deck named "Dark Horizon", now everyone's call it Punising Abzan/Agrro Loam.
I'm out all black color after seen cards like stoneforge mystic and green sun's zenith.
I'm used full power of green sun's zenith : Birds of Paradise, Qasali Pridemage, Scavenging Ooze, Scryb Ranger, Gaddock Teeg, Eternal Witness. Thrun, the Last Troll, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Ulvenwald Tracker.
After SB I'm put stuff like Krosan Grip, Life from the Loam, Elspeth, Knight Errant and Garruk Wildspeaker.

I'm playing pure white-green build to release - Return to Ravnica : Abrupt Decay, Deathrite Shaman.
Abrupt Decay can destroy almost all maverick cards and Deathrite Shaman can control size of Knight of Reliquary.
Very sad moment for all maverick players - lots of fast deck like RUG, BUG Delver with Stifle and Daze.
Later I seen lot of combo deck like Omni-Show and the worst of all - Miracles.
Maverick is dropped from 1 tier deck to 2 tier, because is too slow and can't beat fast combo in first game.

Actually, I playing my own build, testing all of new creatures in abzan's color.
Greedy, lots of singles cards, mix of fetches and basic lands.

1 Bayou (In the past I'm played 2 but I put Swamp and don't have to much black spells)
1 Dark Depths (Part of combo - another way to win)
1 Dryad Arbor (One of core card, fetch-able answer to Liliana, blocker and attacker, feeding Gae'as Cradle, trigger Aura Shards)
1 Forest (In some greedy, waste-war game, simple basic can win the game)
1 Gaea's Cradle (In the past I don't like this card - I'm preferred second Savannah, on the paper is very good, in RUG,BUG era is almost dead card, actually is very good in heavy green build.)
1 Karakas (All star card)
1 Marsh Flats (Before I'm played 8 WB,GB fetch, actually I using WB to found Plains or Swamp. After 30+ games I think is very good decision.)
1 Maze of Ith (Some peoples don't playing it, I like it, give a lots of time and do some trick with KotR. )
1 Plains (same like Forest)
1 Savannah (Actually only 1 in build ;( I need to put Gaea's Cradle.)
1 Scrubland (I want all color combination.)
1 Swamp (Fresh change with Marsh Flats, only minus - can't sacrifice with Kotr and can't use with Scryb Ranger Ability.)
1 Thespian's Stage (Another part of combo, and virtual all other lands in deck.)
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
3 Abrupt Decay (Yes, 3 in Mb, slowly moving one after on from SB, I putted the first one after Return to Ravnica release. Need to answer against first turn delver of secrets, stoneforge mystic, counterbalance and other "immediately must kill".)
1 Batterskull (Fighting with myself about kick out this card, some-times is all star, other times I back in memory about Sword of Light and Shadow.)
2 Deathrite Shaman (I cut to 2 from 4 in MB. Why? Because I'm cutted fetchlands, Im lost lots of greedy games against other midrange putted own Deathrite Shamans before my own. It's do nothing with empty graves.)
1 Gaddock Teeg (all star card)
3 Green Sun's Zenith ( Simple, I cut one from MD because actually I don't have too much targets.)
4 Knight of the Reliquary (My favorite green creature, I started play legacy and this deck after seen this card.)
3 Mother of Runes (I'm cut one because this is maverick and I need to start game with manadorks.)
2 Noble Hierarch (Back in glory, is better Birds of Paradise, ramping with empty graves, exalted with 5 first strike creatures.)
1 Qasali Pridemage (Removal and exalted)
1 Scavenging Ooze (Lifegain and gravehate)
1 Scryb Ranger (Back in glory, do sick things with all others "tap creatures" - one turn Marit Lage.)
3 Stoneforge Mystic (3 SFM for tutor 3 weapon)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice (Second best weapon)
3 Swords to Plowshares (After I'm putted 3rd Abrupt Decay to deck I cut 1 Swords to Plowshares, I don't miss it.)
1 Sylvan Library (I tested 1-3 copy in this deck, 1-2 is good number, 3 is overkill, I shuffle and shuffle library.)
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (After years of playing this deck I play 3 in MD.)
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar (New toys, 3 is too much but 2 is good, very good taxes cards, 2nd turn Thalia do amazing thing.)
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth (I like one big, stupid tutor-able creature, old idea, actually good target with other girls creatures - I don't see too many burn decks.)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (The best weapon ever, do everything.)

Sideboard In Test:
2 Armageddon (Old idea, good against almost all control and midrange, nobody expect it, everyone wait for choke.)
2 Containment Priest (In midrange I'm like to play 1-2 copy of this guy.)
1 Council's Judgment (Very slow but allstar removal, I thinking about to cut it )
2 Ethersworn Canonist (Simple, combo hate.)
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter (This? After I'm added Gaea's Cradle I want someting big thing doing lots of cards advance.)
1 Life from the Loam (Recycling lands playing armageddon and manadorks.Thinking about add one more)
2 Surgical Extraction (Back in glory, In the past i out this card and put Containment Priest but we need to interaction against deck like BR Reanimator.)
2 Thoughtseize (Need to control enemy hand, In past I pplayed 3-4 copies.)
2 Zealous Persecution (Against all swarm decks)

Other Sideboard In Test - simple, back to E. Tutor but I afraid it's too slow for actual metagame:
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Aura Shards
1 Choke
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge (All other midranges SB this gait me, like Abrupt Decay, fight fire with fire)
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

Other tested card I remember now:
Anafenza, the Foremost - good card, but in this cost I have Knight of the Reliquary.
Anguished Unmaking - good card, faster than Maelstrom Pulse etc.
Birds of Paradise - I don' play it, it's do nothing in combat with Jitte.
Arlinn Kord - Semigood card, we need to control it, I played it in Jund and Punishing Maverick.
Brimaz, King of Oreskos - good card but in Death and Taxes, I don't have a space for it.
Bojuka Bog - I drop it, yes its tutor-able with Knight of the Reliquary.
Cataclysm - Very bad card in maverick.
Collected Company - I don't need it, I have zenith, Gaddock kill it, fun deck in some GW Vial Taxes build.
Courser of Kruphix - Semigood card, virtual card advance, good with Sylvan Library but I don't want give information to my opponent what I have on the top.
Doran, the Siege Tower - I like treefolk guy but is to weak to play it.
Dromoka's Command - Sorry, this is legacy no modern.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant - I like it, meaby I will back to it.
Engineered Plague - I don't want play it, too much random, too much narrow.
Eternal Witness - Is good but too slow, 90% target countered Swords of Plowshares or dead Qasali Pridemage.
Garruk Wildspeaker - Is good but too slow, fun with Gaea's Cradle, Elspeth is better.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar - Very good new walker, meaby better than Elspeth.
Hallowed Moonlight - Sorry, this is legacy no modern.
Krosan Grip - good card, destroy SDP and some other random thing, I prefer Abrupt Decay.
Lightning Greaves - this is legacy, no edh.
Maelstrom Pulse - good but slow multi goyf killer.
Meren of Clan Nel Toth - only in nic-fit deck.
Mirran Crusader - If you want play it just play Death and Taxes.
Manriki-Gusari - Tool vs Death and Taxes, preffer Abrupt Decay.
Nantuko Monastery - play it in jund pox no in maverick.
Nevermore - too slow and narrow efect.
Null Rod - good but no in this deck.
Pernicious Deed - too slow and I don't to kill my all board.
Painful Truths - to heavy and slow to play it.
Sanctum Prelate - new all star creature in death and taxes, I don't really have space for it in green sun's zenith deck :( Meaby in GW Vial build?
Sword of Feast and Famine - Good protection and untap Gaea's Cradle but I don't really need it.
Sword of Light and Shadow - my favorite sword, crazy with recycling creature like Qasali Pridemage, Eternal Witness. Very good protection against Swords to Plowshares and Abrupt Decay on Gaddock Teeg.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang - Funny but too weak guy, I don't want it in deck with Knight of the Reliquary and Deathrite Shaman.
Tarmogoyf - Only big vanilla, I want a effect, tutor, tax.
The Gitrog Monster - I tried to play it but in maverick effect is too random, too expensive but sometimes frog can create good card advance and feed the knight but only sometimes, hmm and kill eldrazi :P
Thrun, the Last Troll - Solid good beater but I stop play it and start play Sigarda, Host of Herons in Liliania of the veil decks and show and tell era.
Tireless Tracker - funny card but in the Knight of the Reliquary slot, I tested it and I drop it.
Vindicate - like Maelstrom Pulse hitting the lands, only good target is plains in miracle and forest in loam deck.
Winter Orb - I seen it in punishing version but I totally don't feel this card.
Wilt-Leaf Liege - funny but only good versus Hymn and Liliana.

Sorry for my english :P This is my first post after 4-5 years on internet. :)

[ironclad8690]

Great post! Cool results from your testing.

I played another league today, sorry for not streaming. I am getting some weird errors from OBS that I need to figure out.

Again, this was my list:

1 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Scryb Ranger

3 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Taiga
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Engineered Plague
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

My result was 3-2

Lands: 2-1
Grixis Control w/Dack Fayden: 0-2 (dack stole a jitte game 1 and a Sword of Light and Shadow game 2... gg)
Shardless BUG: 1-2 (just can't quite grind them out, need Thalia for extra mana denial, only way we win)
Burn: 2-0
Elves: 2-0

Going to experiement with Thalia + P Fire maindeck. Nonbo yes, but if you have Thalia in play things are according to plan anyways. I also missed Batterskull vs Shardless so I am going to go to 1 Jitte 1 Batterskull 1 SoFaI.

New List:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/535254#online

I will keep posted with updates :)

[ironclad8690]

http://i.imgur.com/APZZJXl.jpg

What is the play here? I know he has Jitte in hand. I play plains and then Qasali, but he vials in Mom, and I lose the long game once he starts denying my mana. In retrospect, I think the play is Grove and leave up mana + return.

Game 2 I lost to Mom + Mangara + Karakas

[Megadeus]

Yeah I probably go deathrite pass, pfire mom if he has it. He drew a perfect hand though and that's tough to beat. My general plan against DnT though is to establish mana dorks as early as possible

[Irocksandals]

What is the play here? I know he has Jitte in hand. I play plains and then Qasali, but he vials in Mom, and I lose the long game once he starts denying my mana. In retrospect, I think the play is Grove and leave up mana + return.

Play KotR and pass.
He plays mom EoT.
Untaps and he passes back and starts to tax you.
This is where it gets complicated:
While you have a KotR to either add pressure or get max value of mana. You cast Pridemage with [opponents] jitte mana up OR you wait til its in play so he doesn't StP the Pridemage before the Jitte comes down. Honestly you should play defensive with KotR back to force a premtive mom activation then respond accordingly.

[Megadeus]

Play the Pridemage out if that's your plan. If he had a STP he'd use it on the knight

[ironclad8690]

Took this list into a league:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/535513#online

This felt like the best list yet. Lightning Helixes are for matchups where I need more removal (tempo, elves, some midrange), Mirran Crusaders are specifically for Decay decks.

I came to this conclusion by playing 20 matches or so and taking note of what I lost to most often (Grixis Delver, Shardless, Sneak and Show), and dedicated as man slots as I could to those matchups.

Do you guys think the extra 3 life of worth the white mana in the cost? Or should those be bolts/paths? I am not really a fan of path because ramping shardless is not where I want to be. The life swing has mattered in a couple of games so far.

As far as the crusaders, do you guys think there could be something better against Shardless? I wanted more of a resilient threat than an answer here (hence no pyroblast).

Elves: 2-1
Grixis Delver: 2-0
BR Reanimator: 2-1
Legend Miracles: 0-2
4c Loam (Mats): 1-2

Didn't draw very well vs miracles, and vs mats he just overwhelmed me with multiple Lilianas game 3. I am thinking that maybe it might be worth increasing the Revoker count in the board.

[Megadeus]

I really like having the extra couple of removal spells on the board, but I think I want my removal to remove big eldrazi and dodge counter balance. Helix isn't great against eldrazi and path doesn't get by chalice. If I were a bit more black heavy I'd honestly consider a shriekmaw, but the decks I want the extra removal play 4 wasteland. Honestly even debated Dromoka command.

[pettdan]

I really like having the extra couple of removal spells on the board, but I think I want my removal to remove big eldrazi and dodge counter balance. Helix isn't great against eldrazi and path doesn't get by chalice. If I were a bit more black heavy I'd honestly consider a shriekmaw, but the decks I want the extra removal play 4 wasteland. Honestly even debated Dromoka command.

It's not the best removal but Blessed Alliance meets those requirements and the untap mode is fairly relevant with Knights and Deathrites.

[Megadeus]

Blessed alliance is one I have tried as well. Getting rid of Marit Lage is pretty sick without giving them life. I turned everyone at my local on to the card when it first came out because there were like 3 people playing turbo True name derp blade decks. I never loved it as much in practice like I did in theory though.

[ironclad8690]

Managed to pull off a 5-0 with the same list.

Grixis Delver: 2-0
Grixis Control: 2-1
Grixis Delver: 2-0
BUG Delver: 2-1
Burn: 2-0

I got really lucky g3 against BUG Delver with him bricking on green mana, and me beating a lili with 8 counters (and THAT is why you play punishing fire folks!)

The more I play this list the more I love it. It is basically a slightly different D&T, with many games decided by a Stoneforge. P Fire combo is nuts vs all the tempo as well, not to mention every time you cast Swords you can just recur P fire without grove.

[Megadeus]

How does the miracles match feel? I feel like their best plan is to get early CB lock against you and you don't have decay too answer

[warai]

Miracles is probably our thoughest matchup, is always a matter of can you disrupt and give enough damage before they lock you down?

Punishing Fire variants can give you a big edge because you attack on many angles however I prefer to play the D&T version of the deck.

To fight against them my plan currently is: Choke, Teeg, Phyrexian Revoker, Thoughtseize if on the play, Prelate on 1 or Prelate on 6 - sometimes Council's Judgment can screw up this plan.

Added Aether Vial + Recruiter and can say is the nuts as it allows for a deeper range of plays.

Current list that I have been testing:

3 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island

SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker

[ironclad8690]

@warai that list is totally awesome! I want to give it a try when I can.

Miracles is certainly a tough one, particularly non-ponder variants, because they spend less time tapping out in the early turns with reduces the efficacy of all of our permanent-based answers, primarily Choke, and has led me to consider cutting Choke for Armageddon or Tsunami. I think we need some angle of a huge blowout, as we often don't win a grindy 1-for-1 war. I do like bringing in Choke as a hedge against delver and blade/shardless however, and more expensive cards would surely be worse here.

My boarding plan vs Miracles is this:

-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Mother of Runes
-1 Deathrite Shaman/Noble/BoP depending on how I feel
-1 Knight of the Reliquary

I am unsure of the creatures to cut, but my reasoning here is that I want to get blown out by Terminus less, and Knight is sort of slowly and clunky.

+1 Chandra, Pyromaster (main reason for her inclusion is Miracles, but also Strix decks/Elves, grindy)
+1 Choke (Same as Chandra, but tempo and grindy blue)
+1 Pithing Needle (obvious)
+1 Phyrexian Revoker (obvious)
+1 Rec Sage (CB, Moon, in rare cases top under Needle or Revoker)
+2 Banishing Light (Jace, CB, Blood Moon)

It is certainly possible that I should cut Jitte or Batterskull too, but I kind of like all equipment on deck for getting max value out of SFM and turning each dork into a threat. Batterskull also a castable threat under an early blood moon. Also, they will answer the first couple of equip sometimes, and having that 3rd go the distance can happen. Maybe even cutting the 4th P Fire could work, but I like having as many as possible for pressuring Jace, answers mentor sometimes etc.

I would say my biggest weakness is lack of answers for CB. I was thinking about K Grip, but it seemed too narrow. Ancient Grudge is a legit way to grind out D&T and Shardless, so that's why that is there.

I think Miracles is a 45% matchup, but certainly winnable, moreso if you include more hate. I haven't been running into it much though, I am facing way more delver and shardless currently in the leagues.

[ironclad8690]

Got to end a game 3 vs eldrazi with 77 life

http://i.imgur.com/mNajVGy.jpg

[Megadeus]

Eldrazi seems to be a easy match up to me. I tested against white drazi earlier and got turn 1 thought knotted on the draw and won pretty easily. I did draw three green Sun though. Displacer is real hard to beat though.

Went 4-0 in local I guess tonight. Beat aluren basically by mana denial with waste, thalia, and scooze against deathrites. Feels like a pretty easy match up I think. I was debating playing a second canonist in the board, but meh. Otherwise I beat deathblade as well. Game 1 presented a quick jitte on thalia and denied him his jitte. Game two he bricked on lands and I kept him off of deathrite with scooze and choked him. I really want to play a second scooze main again, but dunno what to cut. Definitely don't want to go below 2 pridemage which already feels low. I like new Thalia as a 2 of. Feels like the right number. Tried Dromokas command. Boarded it against aluren but didn't draw it. It's probably terrible. Might try to get some testing in tomorrow. I surprisingly haven't really missed SoFaI. Maybe a bit against BUG, but skull has been fine.

[ironclad8690]

Huh interesting. Sofai started out for TNN for me, but I quickly realized it is big game in the Miracles matchup. Recently I just started using same package as D&T, because I figure those dudes have it solved. Skull auto-wins so many games it's ridiculous. SoLaS is great with hatebears vs Miracles, but I think skull takes priority right now, especially in punishing.

[ironclad8690]

3-2 in today's league:

Eldrazi: 2-1
Dredge: 2-1
Storm: 2-0
Omnisneak: 0-2
Omnisneak: 0-2 (same guy, jpa93 who wrote the sneak and show primer)

Pretty much no hope in the omnisneak matchup. Rec sage gets blown out by cunning wish on the omnitell, also you have to try and guess which "combo" he is going to put in (if you have Knight in hand and Canonist/Rec Sage/Needle you can only put 1, if you play them before that you risk them getting countered).

Regular show and tell is fine, but this version is optimized to beat hatebears, which is pretty much our only mountable defense.

[Megadeus]

Omniderp is pretty rough. You need Thalia just to slow them down and hope they don't just have it all. It's another reason I'm debating a second canonist in my board

[ironclad8690]

Yeah, in my game 2 I even showed in canonist, he puts in omni, passes back to me, I play Knight, he goes cunning wish eot for something, plays emrakul on his turn and I'm dead.

[CRich3]

Whats everyones plan vs Eldrazi? It feels like a 60-40 if they don't get a turn 1 chalice and 40-60 if they do. I just can't ever keep up when they play turn 1 chalice.

[RobNC]

Whats everyones plan vs Eldrazi? It feels like a 60-40 if they don't get a turn 1 chalice and 40-60 if they do. I just can't ever keep up when they play turn 1 chalice.

Get a big Knight or Scavenging Ooze.
Don't lean too heavily on DRS/Hierarch hands if you're on the play.
Side out all your Moms G2/G3.
Tricks with Knight and Scryb Ranger to power out Wastelands can put them real far behind.

Having Batterskull in your equipment package helps, too.

[Megadeus]

Scooze, Stoneforge (if you play BSkull), Knight are all MVPs. New Thalia does some fucking work. Don't think I've lost a sanctioned match against the deck, but it is something I like having something for in the sideboard. I don't think I've lost a game I've gotten an active KOTR though. Do watch out for All is Dust out of the board. I did lose an unloseable game where I didn't think I could lose so I didn't waste him and he got 7 mana and dusted me.

[ironclad8690]

They are really weak to wasteland. Don't feel bad if you lose to the nut draw, we all do.

[ironclad8690]

Sorry to spam this thread, but I figured I would share my results from another league:

Storm: 2-1
Death and Taxes: 1-2 (Super close game with a crucial deciding turn where I punted and tapped out)
Shardless: 0-2
Shardless: 2-0 (same dude)
Eldrazi: 2-0

Here is the turn from the D&T match:

http://i.imgur.com/LY6diQr.jpg

So my opponent used recruiter to fetch up Orzhov Pontiff (castable via Cavern, which I didn't realize at the time).

My options:

1) Hold up Punishing Fire and play knight (SMART)

2) Hold Up Punishing Fire and hold up b skull vial mana (LESS SMART, BUT NOT HORRIFICALLY STUPID)

2) Play Batterskull for 5 mana (HORRIFICALLY STUPID)

For some reason I go with option number three (really can't explain why I thought to do this) and get completely blown out.

Had I left up p fire, he goes pontif. My Revoker and mom die. If he goes to equip, I can p fire something in response, saving me for 1 more turn, during which I can tutor up a grove and kill his last two creatures, and my knight is out of Jitte Kill range. This should have been a 4-1, but I was a dingus :3

On the plus side, I am 55.55% win rate, which means at least I am not losing money by continuing to play ^_^

[ironclad8690]

Last post for the day I promise!

So I updated my list:

3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Punishing Fire
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy

Sideboard
2 Pyroblast
2 Choke
2 Banishing Light
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Containment Priest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Crop Rotation

I believe this to be much closer to a "perfect" list, and then I popped my Miracle cherry!

http://i.imgur.com/jSINYp8.jpg

The trick is to try and avoid getting blown out by blind flips. Example, I played a Scryb Ranger, he revealed some non 1 mana spell, and I pyroblasted the cb after. Sometimes you have to jam into it, but it can be avoided with smart play sometimes.

[Megadeus]

Looks like your opponent was either unlucky or bad. I think 80% of my games against miracles I don't get to wasteland them before turn 4 or 5

[ironclad8690]

Either way, i'll take what I can get.

[Rascalyote]

That poor dryad arbor must be so confused being a mountain with protection from red (but yes, still green)

more of topic- congrats! Still not sure if I should play Batterskull anywhere, but I do want to try out 1 Leovold as a Green Sun target.

[ironclad8690]

Leovold could be cool. We do have ~5 blue sources from the dorks, and it might not be a bad idea to include a trop and a couple meddling mages in the board if you wanna go that route.

I ended up 1-3 drop in my league.

Miracles: 2-1
BR Tin Fins: 1-2
BR Tin Fins: 0-2
Elves: 0-2

I had to mull against elves to find live cards, and I risked a 1 lander with mom and canonist/teeg. I didn't draw the second land, and he turn 2'd me. BR tin fins, or any tin fins for that matter, are poor matchups. He didn't even really need to reanimate grisel, he would pretty frequently just Dark Rit Dark Rit Cabal Rit and cast him.

I love punishing fire, but I am starting to miss Thalia: Guardian of White Legacy Mages.

[Megadeus]

Fire is nice and all, but I'd rather have Thalia in the current meta. I think I'd have to be in a pretty fair meta to even consider fire.

[jwl3gg]

New Thalia is a must for any meta with elves in it, she's just so good!

[gszteeg]

What is your current list? About to dust off the cob webs and attend a team tournament in Maryland for the SCG Open.


Eldrazi seems to be a easy match up to me. I tested against white drazi earlier and got turn 1 thought knotted on the draw and won pretty easily. I did draw three green Sun though. Displacer is real hard to beat though.

Went 4-0 in local I guess tonight. Beat aluren basically by mana denial with waste, thalia, and scooze against deathrites. Feels like a pretty easy match up I think. I was debating playing a second canonist in the board, but meh. Otherwise I beat deathblade as well. Game 1 presented a quick jitte on thalia and denied him his jitte. Game two he bricked on lands and I kept him off of deathrite with scooze and choked him. I really want to play a second scooze main again, but dunno what to cut. Definitely don't want to go below 2 pridemage which already feels low. I like new Thalia as a 2 of. Feels like the right number. Tried Dromokas command. Boarded it against aluren but didn't draw it. It's probably terrible. Might try to get some testing in tomorrow. I surprisingly haven't really missed SoFaI. Maybe a bit against BUG, but skull has been fine.

[timmyod17]

New spoiler today that's potentially playable in Maverick:

Renegade Rallier
1 GW
Human Warrior

Revolt - When this ETB, return target permanent with CMC 2 or less from the graveyard to the battlefield.
3/2


Seems REALLY good with fetches, wastelands, random hatebears, jitte, or basically almost any permanent in this deck. And in a relevant creature type. Oh, and it's an uncommon for some reason.

[Megadeus]

New spoiler today that's potentially playable in Maverick:

Renegade Rallier
1 GW
Human Warrior

Revolt - When this ETB, return target permanent with CMC 2 or less from the graveyard to the battlefield.
3/2


Seems REALLY good with fetches, wastelands, random hatebears, jitte, or basically almost any permanent in this deck. And in a relevant creature type. Oh, and it's an uncommon for some reason.
Pridemage your thing, get pridemage back with this? I pooped

[CRich3]

What's people's thoughts on main deck Thalia's guardian? It feels like since I've put her in the main I increase my combo matchups but I'm losing more to other decks.

[nicoleptik]

New spoiler today that's potentially playable in Maverick: Renegade Rallier 1 GW Human Warrior Revolt - When this ETB, return target permanent with CMC 2 or less from the graveyard to the battlefield. 3/2 Seems REALLY good with fetches, wastelands, random hatebears, jitte, or basically almost any permanent in this deck. And in a relevant creature type. Oh, and it's an uncommon for some reason. T1 noble T2 Renegade bringing back fetch means 5 mana on turn 3. Seems decent :p

[Ganfar]

New spoiler today that's potentially playable in Maverick:

Renegade Rallier
1 GW
Human Warrior

Revolt - When this ETB, return target permanent with CMC 2 or less from the graveyard to the battlefield.
3/2


Seems REALLY good with fetches, wastelands, random hatebears, jitte, or basically almost any permanent in this deck. And in a relevant creature type. Oh, and it's an uncommon for some reason.

The dude can ramp us to with fetches. That is nice

[ET1]

Worth testing however I'm skeptical of it being a mainstay given the limited number of slots for 3 mana spells. Notable about the Renegade Rallier is that you can trigger him with scryb ranger and knight of the reliquary which seems awesome. Also the potential for triple to even quadruple wasteland turns seems hilarious. You would of course need a knight and scryb ranger in play to do this. Although I'm skeptical he does seem worth testing.

[warai]

New spoiler today that's potentially playable in Maverick:

Renegade Rallier
1 GW
Human Warrior

Revolt - When this ETB, return target permanent with CMC 2 or less from the graveyard to the battlefield.
3/2


Seems REALLY good with fetches, wastelands, random hatebears, jitte, or basically almost any permanent in this deck. And in a relevant creature type. Oh, and it's an uncommon for some reason.

This new bear looks like bonkers in Maverick :)

[Ganfar]

This new bear looks like bonkers in Maverick :)

Not a bear, it's a 3-drop

[warai]

Not a bear, it's a 3-drop

Ups, indeed it is :-) Value use case scenarios for this 3-drop are immense.

[ironclad8690]

I will certainly be trying 1 out in the "courser" slot.

Went 2-3 in my latest league, playing a stock GWb list.

Can't remember the chronological order, but:

Omnisneak: 0-2
4c Loam: 0-2
UW Blade: 2-0
Sneak and Show: 2-1
Death and Taxes: 1-2

I am currently playing a slightly suboptimal manabase (3 savannah, 2 bayou, 3 foothills, 4 Heath, 2 Forest, 1 Plains, stuff), but I am going to upgrade before my next league to the classic Herzog manabase. It has hurt in a couple of games not being able to fetch W/B, so maybe this will alleviate some of the pain.

[Rascalyote]

I usually have 3 flex slots in my list, atm it's 2 Heretic Cathar and a Garruk Relentless. (Other cards that fill these slots are usually decays, leovold, sylvan library, 2nd Scryb//Ooze, Elspeth).

But I'm pretty sure I want at least 1 Renegade Rallier, he seems good - more importantly, he's so pretty :^).

I've been doing well locally except Omni has been dumperstering me as well when I run into it :(

[ironclad8690]

Omni huh? How many canonist/rule of law you packing in your 75?

[Rascalyote]

Omni huh? How many canonist/rule of law you packing in your 75?

2 Canonist but I lose when I show her in and I don't have enchantment removal and they cast Emrakul next turn after putting in omni, or if I have both and they just show in a creature and I don't have Karakus//Knight. It's mostly just having the wrong thing at the wrong time.

I think I might try to play 1 Reclamation Sage in the sideboard, doesn't give them priority to cast Emrakul when they show in Omni and it's nice in other matchups, though I already have quite a bit of artifact//enchantment removal with Pridemage and Decay ... I'm not the biggest fan of Oblivion Ring but I have played it before.

[ironclad8690]

Went 4-1 in today's league.

Sneak and Show: 2-1
Storm: 2-0
Death and Taxes: 2-1
4c Delver: 0-2
Merfolk: 2-0

"Stock" list:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/540138#online

Sneak and Show went for it turn 1 g1 and I had the knight for his emmy. g2 he took it slow and I couldn't stop his emmy ult off of sneak. g3 he went for it early again, but I had knight again. Even though he drew 14 off grisel, I had a double wasteland opener and got his turn 1 tomb and turn 2 volc to seal the deal.

Storm he probes me and takes my thalia turn 1, I rip another like a champ and slam it. g2 I keep a t1 accelerator t2 zenith for teeg had and get with with a sword of light and shadow on teeg to prevent any decay shenanigans.

D&T: I lose first game, zealous persecution wins 2nd game, game 3 is interesting. He gets a vial, but is stuck on 1 land, I build a huge board but am stalled by mother of runes and revoker naming DRS, and the game ends like this eventually (after much painstaking combat math on both parties):

http://i.imgur.com/pavMdby.png

4c Delver was basically a slaughter, with me losing game 1 to 3 deathrite shamans despite gaining board superiority at one point (though I couldn't answer a bob), and g2 I couldn't answer bob again and eventually my knight got submerged and I lost.

Merfolk player was just unlucky whereas I curved out normally and won with knights. g2 I drew a zealous when I needed to get rid of 2 tnn at 3 life, so that was cliutch, but library was the all star of this game.

Thanks for reading! Hope some maverick pilots do well in the trials tonight for Louisville.

Down to discuss boarding/matchup advice if anyone wants to prepare for the GP.

[Octopusman]

New spoiler today that's potentially playable in Maverick:

Renegade Rallier
1 GW
Human Warrior

Revolt - When this ETB, return target permanent with CMC 2 or less from the graveyard to the battlefield.
3/2


Seems REALLY good with fetches, wastelands, random hatebears, jitte, or basically almost any permanent in this deck. And in a relevant creature type. Oh, and it's an uncommon for some reason.

Came to talk about this card.

I think we're going to see a lot of this card in the future. A lot.

The extra wastelands are just going to win games plain and simple.
The ability to get back Teeg and Thalia is huge and a much needed win for this deck.

Pretty happy to see this amazing toy after all the love D&T got.

Things that allow it to trigger:
Fetches
Wasteland
Scryb Ranger
Knight of the Reliquary
Qasali Pridemage

Magic Christmas Land: Saccing a Tracker's Clue.

[pettdan]

We already have Knight for getting extra Wastelands so that doesn't seem like a huge upswing. Getting a hatebear back means the opponent probably (unless in case of discard) managed to remove it once, I think usually when a combo deck remove a hatebear they combo off shortly after and often during the same turn so getting a hatebear back next turn is too slow when it matters the most.

It seems nice to be able to get Jitte back, that card wins so many matchups and is destroyed at first sight. I sometimes play two Jittes and this card could be better than a second Jitte since it can do other things. I also like that it helps ramping to 5 mana (Sigarda/Titania) if there's no opposing Deathrite (but Knights do that too so again no boost compared to knight).

It doesn't seem to add that much functionality, it does bring card advantage BUT that is countered by an active Deathrite most of the time. I think one could be reasonable to test out since it does many things and is GSZ-able, but I will have a hard time taking any three drop out of my list. With that said I can imagine I'm underestimating it too..

[Cpt-Qc]

Renegade Rallier does seem fine but as others have said already, we are pretty choked on 3 drops.

Since I am playing 3 KoTr and 2 THC atm, I might have to drop my second Library to try this (I don't think this is better than THC).

[RobNC]

I'm looking forward to trying it as a 1-of, but I'm also not playing any THC. The fact that you can get it with GSZ is a huge plus.

As for Wasteland, yes your Knights can fetch it, but you also have to sac a land to pull the Wasteland out of your deck. Rallier can reuse one from your graveyard, effectively being a "1GW: 3/2 Human, destroy target non-basic land" in those cases without having to wait a turn to lose summoning sickness nor screwing yourself out of a land. It can also save yourself from mana screw by getting back a land or fetch, get back a hatebear, etc etc.

I think Maverick would use this better than Eternal Witness, which doesn't seem to be used in Maverick at all, although decks that go bigger (like Nic Fit) would probably want EWit over this for sure.

[ironclad8690]

I played 4 leagues today with these results:

1-4
4-1
1-4
4-1

I have increased my collection's worth by quite a bit with all of the 4-1s (4-1 is increase by essentially 24, 2-3 or worse is decrease by only 12).

I have been facing mostly BUG Delver, 4c Delver, 4c Loam, Turbodepths (BUG), Storm, and Death and Taxes, with pretty middle results except death and taxes which I am 75% against (I lose game 1, then win g2 and 3 off of lucksack Zealous Persecutions), and Storm which I am 100% against somehow.

I am pretty happy with my current iteration, which went down to 1 Library for 1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar. I have been loving the Thalia vs 4c Loam, and I am even tempted to run some Fauna Shamans to tutor it.

19-11 after 30 matches, for a 63.33 match %, which is pretty darn good. Small sample size so far, but if I can keep it around 60 it will be the best I have ever done. Even with Sneak and Show, Miracles, and Shardless BUG I was only 55%.

Also, some good news from the front lines. Michael Antrim (1mpulse on here) is 7-2 after day 1, losing to Elves 2 times. I think he is still possibly live for top 8.

[Megadeus]

I'm 7-2 as well no byes. Lost to Sneak and Show when I started on duress brainstorm, stp grim lavamancer, draw only lands with no other spells. Lost to greedy 4 color value pile with a million removal spells and painful truths. Highlight so far. Death and Taxes opponent at 13, has insurmountable board and probably going to put me away. Draw knight. Equip with batterskull. He taps out for BSkull. I draw. Attack with knight, before blocks activate get fetch to fetch, flash in scryb ranger, untap knight, activate knight, get rogues passage, target knight to hit him for 14. Rogues passage GOAT

[ironclad8690]

Haha Rogue's Passage! That is so ROGUE of you! ROGUE ONE!!!!

Also, I just played another league.

0-3 this time.

Aggro Loam: 1-2
ANT: 0-2
ANT: 1-2

My deck pooped on me vs storm, with many mulligans and a green sun's zenith trolling me in my hand, two savannah in play, and no land for DRS to exile in either yard. I guess I had been pretty lucky up until this point, now I am at 2-2 vs ANT.

[Megadeus]

Finished 8-4 drop. Got the Belcher, 4 Color Leovold Value deck, and Sneak and Ape. Somehow I beat belcher of those three.

[ironclad8690]

XD not what I would have expected.

To quote that wonderful old video...

"Belcher is the fastest deck in the format. It almost always loses on turn 1"

[Megadeus]

Yes. Game one he goblined me turn one. I didn't play anything and scooped. Game two I had duress take belcher, canonist, teeg, Thalia, scoop. Game three he mulls to 6. I keep a hand with pridemage and ZP hoping he's either on goblin plan or play belcher no activation. He simply passes. I draw needle like an ape. Name belcher, he goes 12 goblins and proceeds to lose to ZP. I'll most likely write up a tourney report. Overall the deck was great, but as non blue decks tend to do, it pooped on itself a couple times against sneak and show and I lost a good match up twice

[Dice_Box]

Sneak and Ape.
That's apt, remind me of the name about the end of March and I will rename the deck for the 1st of April.

[Schryver]

I'll most likely write up a tourney report. Overall the deck was great, but as non blue decks tend to do, it pooped on itself a couple times against sneak and show and I lost a good match up twice

I'd love to read a report. Did you make top 100 or was that a different Maverick player?

[Megadeus]

I was just outside top 100, but that's not saying too much considering there were about 125 people at 7-2 after day one ended. It's simply absurd to see how many people are in these events. That will probably be my last GP. It was a great time, but 15 rounds with 1800+ people or whatever is insane. Next time I'll just grind out side events.

[ironclad8690]

I went 4-1 again today, continuing my streak of 4-1 and dropping in-between, which works for me lol.

Dark Bant: 2-1
Aggro Loam (Mats): 2-0
Nic Fit: 1-2
Enchantress: 2-1 (holy crap black makes a huge difference in this matchup, with Decay and Zealous Persecution)
TES: 2-1

I am pretty stoked on my record, 23-16, for 60% match win on modo.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot, since Leovold proved so useful yesterday it made me think Spirit of the Labyrinth could be good, so I played 2 in the Sylvan Library slots. They made a nice effect vs Dark Bant (I got to do stuff when he had a leovold with parity). Also, that 3 power can put quite a clock on people when you have a noble or QPM. I think there were probably some times when putting in Leovold off of a show and tell kept sneak players from going crazy with Griseldaddy, and Spirit has been kind to me vs tempo miracles and shardless in the past. I am always afraid to play it in paper because I am very trigger happy with my Sword of Fire and Ice triggers, and I have seen a dude get a game loss for that lol

[oSeabass]

I am pretty stoked on my record, 23-16, for 60% match win on modo.

Could you post an up to date list of what you are running? I've been trying to get back into it and have been trying so many random things in slots just to see how I like them. Since I missed some time I don't have opinions on a lot of the flex slot stuff people had, Tracker, Leovold, Garruk main, 2x Library, Loam, Recruiter, Ghost Quarter, Maze, etc.

The options are great to have, I just am not in touch with the "meta" as I used to be so it's hard to make the call on what to use in flex.

I also just got a set of Groves for Punishing Fire if I wanted to tinker around with it, but so far Black for ADecay, ZP, and discard seem to be working for me.

[ironclad8690]

Could you post an up to date list of what you are running? I've been trying to get back into it and have been trying so many random things in slots just to see how I like them. Since I missed some time I don't have opinions on a lot of the flex slot stuff people had, Tracker, Leovold, Garruk main, 2x Library, Loam, Recruiter, Ghost Quarter, Maze, etc.

The options are great to have, I just am not in touch with the "meta" as I used to be so it's hard to make the call on what to use in flex.

I also just got a set of Groves for Punishing Fire if I wanted to tinker around with it, but so far Black for ADecay, ZP, and discard seem to be working for me.

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy

Sideboard:
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Choke
1 Banishing Light
1 Containment Priest
1 Garruk Relentless

Garruk is really under-performing I really only ever want his vs miracles. Other than that I can't figure out what to cut for him ever. Wondering if maybe Gaddock #3 would be better, since at least that comes in v combo. Thoughts?

[nicoleptik]

Would add a pithing needle and at least a graveyard hate for BR reanimator, like surgical extraction or faerie macabre. I like a decay main too

[TMagpie]

We already have Knight for getting extra Wastelands so that doesn't seem like a huge upswing. Getting a hatebear back means the opponent probably (unless in case of discard) managed to remove it once, I think usually when a combo deck remove a hatebear they combo off shortly after and often during the same turn so getting a hatebear back next turn is too slow when it matters the most.

It seems nice to be able to get Jitte back, that card wins so many matchups and is destroyed at first sight. I sometimes play two Jittes and this card could be better than a second Jitte since it can do other things. I also like that it helps ramping to 5 mana (Sigarda/Titania) if there's no opposing Deathrite (but Knights do that too so again no boost compared to knight).

It doesn't seem to add that much functionality, it does bring card advantage BUT that is countered by an active Deathrite most of the time. I think one could be reasonable to test out since it does many things and is GSZ-able, but I will have a hard time taking any three drop out of my list. With that said I can imagine I'm underestimating it too..

The biggest issue with adding any 3cc creature in Maverick is that the deck is super mana tight as is. We are essentially a ramp deck whose payoff strategies destroy our own lands.

Often I can barely run 4 GSZ 4 KotR let alone trying to add 1-2 more 3cc threats. The best way to think about this card is "what is the value I am hoping to get that is different from the other options available?"

What excites me the most about this card is the fact that it gives you both card advantage, tempo advantage, and a beefy threat for just 3cc. Any one of the things it provides is better given by other cards; but at a cost. Lost tempo (in regards to Tireless Tracker), lost card advantage (in regards to THC), plain smaller (in regards to Courser of Kruphix) etc...

But before any of those questions gets asked--one must always ask the question of; can my version of Maverick afford another three-drop creature?

[Marethyu]

Hi all!

I'm a legacy noob, but I've been watching scg vids for a few years now and I think its the most interesting format.

Here's what I'm considering:

1x meren of clan nel toth
2x knight of the reliquary
4x renegade rallier
1x eternal witness
3x thalia, guardian of thraben
1x gaddock teeg
1x scavenging ooze
2x grim flayer
4x deathrite shaman

2x kaya, ghost assassin

4x green sun's zenith

2x thoughtseize
4x cabal therapy

3x abrupt decay
4x swords to plowshares

4x verdant catacombs
2x marsh flats
3x windswept heath
2x bayou
1x scrubland
1x savannah
1x plains
1x swamp
1x forest
1x dryad arbor
1x karakas
4x wasteland

SB

1x dragonlord dromoka
1x nissa, vital force
1x thragtusk
4x surgical extraction
1x duress
2x unezawa's jitte
2x golgari charm
1x vindicate
1x abrupt decay
1x qasali pridemage

I haven't tested this list. Its theorycrafting at this point. I also brought a bride of young frankenstein brew to my local legacy once months ago so I know there's lands and mud. No idea what the local meta looks like now.

I've chosen to forego the stoneforge mystic package in favor of meren, kaya, and eternal witness. I love me some recursion. Unfortunately, I think rest in peace could hurt so the threats in the sideboard don't rely on the graveyard. Otherwise, I would love to play Titania. I feel like wasteland -> renegade rallier -> wasteland could severely hurt a lot of decks. And you can tell how sadistic I am because my dream is to use eternal witness plus vindicate (and surgical extraction, swords to plowshares, cabal therapy) to strip my opponent of all hope.

Again, I haven't tested this yet (I don't even have all the pieces at the moment), but I would love to get your feedback. I defer to your experience.

Thanks!

[RobNC]

Your higher curve (especially in the sideboard) and desire to play Meren and planeswalkers makes me think you might want to check out Junk Nic-Fit over in the Nic-Fit thread instead. They are more of a ramp deck and can more easily cast some big stuff like what you have in your 75.

[Marethyu]

Your higher curve (especially in the sideboard) and desire to play Meren and planeswalkers makes me think you might want to check out Junk Nic-Fit over in the Nic-Fit thread instead. They are more of a ramp deck and can more easily cast some big stuff like what you have in your 75.

I was inspired by some elements of nic fit, but I think this deck shares a greater similarity with Maverick due to the toolbox with green sun's zenith. I think this also has better game against combo than nic fit.

Deathrite shaman, green sun's zenith (with dryad arbor), renegade rallier, and knight of the reliquary all help to ramp. Plus, I think the bigger stuff will come in in grindy matchups, games that'll go longer.

[ironclad8690]

Just want to say: I regularly have trouble even resolving 2-3 drops or zenithing for x= 4 vs most of the format, even with 23 lands. Make of that what you will...

[DoomRabbit]

What's everyone's thoughts on the flex land spots.
I've been running the dark depth combo ever since I've been playing with the deck, which I've enjoyed a lot as it can get you out of many tight spots.
As others have remarked though, it can mess with the consistency of the deck so I've been toying with the idea of trying other lands instead.

Other lands I've seen in similar spots:
- Cradle
- Cavern of Souls
- Horizon Canopy
- Maze of Ith (Great effect, doesn't tap for mana - similar to Dark Depths in that regard)

I'm probably missing a few (not including Karakas here, as I'm already running it).

Does any one have comments on which of these or others they like best? I can see a case for each of those, and downsides. Is this purely a meta call or are there objectively better things to be doing? (If it helps, I play most often vs Miracles, Elves, Show and Tell, Eldrazi, Maverick, 4c Loam).

[oSeabass]

What's everyone's thoughts on the flex land spots.
I've been running the dark depth combo ever since I've been playing with the deck, which I've enjoyed a lot as it can get you out of many tight spots.
As others have remarked though, it can mess with the consistency of the deck so I've been toying with the idea of trying other lands instead.

Other lands I've seen in similar spots:
- Cradle
- Cavern of Souls
- Horizon Canopy
- Maze of Ith (Great effect, doesn't tap for mana - similar to Dark Depths in that regard)

I'm probably missing a few (not including Karakas here, as I'm already running it).

Does any one have comments on which of these or others they like best? I can see a case for each of those, and downsides. Is this purely a meta call or are there objectively better things to be doing? (If it helps, I play most often vs Miracles, Elves, Show and Tell, Eldrazi, Maverick, 4c Loam).

I started tinkering with Ironclad's list. The Horizon Canopy has been good as another GW land, and real nice once or twice as a card draw. I found in tight games where it went kinda long and stalled a bit, having an extra draw was nice to get through the deck faster... ESPECIALLY in sideboard games.

Ironclad also runs a Cradle, which I loved in a game. I was a little tight on mana and being able to drop a SFM and a Jitte against Elves in the same turn was real nice. I also run a 1 of Batterskull and have loved Cradle with that just to ramp a bit more. It def. has led to some explosive plays; possible GSZ, Batterskull + bounce mana, etc.

Maze is meh. I used to run Maze but it's becoming less and less effective IMHO. Elves kill you with an army, Show and Tell decks don't care about lands unless it's a Karakas, Miracles flood you with minions, Delver it's ok against but I feel that match is already good, Stoneblade laughs cus TNN. I think the way the format has shifted Maze has become less important. Yes it allows some cheeky plays with KotR but I feel like it's better suited being a potential mana land instead of a utility card.

Cavern is decent but the creature base is split a lot more then it used to be. Human used to be the go to, but that no longer can be dropped on turn 1 for a mana dork, into an uncounterable Knight t2 unless you run NH. Having land that can't cast Teegfather most of the time makes me sad.

Ghost Quarter. It's nice to have another Wasteland style effect, esp. if you run Life from the Loam, nice being able to get around Pithing Needle on Wasteland in those cases. Also can be used to filter your own land if you REALLY need it.

Bojuka Bog in the board still seems ok in spots, but I have preferred going with the "free" and potential game winning Surgical Extraction for my grave hate seeing as how it can impact more matchups then just "graveyard" decks.

Urborg. I had an opponent play Urborg against me and it saved my mana. It's an odd one since it can potentially save your enemy but it was nice being able to get black mana out of all the random utility lands.

After getting back into it, I am leaning on Ironclad's choices of Cradle/Canopy. If I had to bring in a 3rd I'd maybe find space for Loam and a Ghost Quarter.

[Megadeus]

I dropped canopy and play Rogues Passage, Gaea's Cradle, and Karakas as one of utility lands. Passage has won me many many games

[TMagpie]

I started tinkering with Ironclad's list. The Horizon Canopy has been good as another GW land, and real nice once or twice as a card draw. I found in tight games where it went kinda long and stalled a bit, having an extra draw was nice to get through the deck faster... ESPECIALLY in sideboard games.

Ironclad also runs a Cradle, which I loved in a game. I was a little tight on mana and being able to drop a SFM and a Jitte against Elves in the same turn was real nice. I also run a 1 of Batterskull and have loved Cradle with that just to ramp a bit more. It def. has led to some explosive plays; possible GSZ, Batterskull + bounce mana, etc.

Maze is meh. I used to run Maze but it's becoming less and less effective IMHO. Elves kill you with an army, Show and Tell decks don't care about lands unless it's a Karakas, Miracles flood you with minions, Delver it's ok against but I feel that match is already good, Stoneblade laughs cus TNN. I think the way the format has shifted Maze has become less important. Yes it allows some cheeky plays with KotR but I feel like it's better suited being a potential mana land instead of a utility card.

Cavern is decent but the creature base is split a lot more then it used to be. Human used to be the go to, but that no longer can be dropped on turn 1 for a mana dork, into an uncounterable Knight t2 unless you run NH. Having land that can't cast Teegfather most of the time makes me sad.

Ghost Quarter. It's nice to have another Wasteland style effect, esp. if you run Life from the Loam, nice being able to get around Pithing Needle on Wasteland in those cases. Also can be used to filter your own land if you REALLY need it.

Bojuka Bog in the board still seems ok in spots, but I have preferred going with the "free" and potential game winning Surgical Extraction for my grave hate seeing as how it can impact more matchups then just "graveyard" decks.

Urborg. I had an opponent play Urborg against me and it saved my mana. It's an odd one since it can potentially save your enemy but it was nice being able to get black mana out of all the random utility lands.

After getting back into it, I am leaning on Ironclad's choices of Cradle/Canopy. If I had to bring in a 3rd I'd maybe find space for Loam and a Ghost Quarter.

I find Maze of Ith to be fantastic. Against damn near all matchups.

Even vs combo and Miracles I use Maze of Ith plus Deathrite Shaman as 3 damage a turn game 1 off of 1 creature as early as the 2nd turn. (attack with DRS, untap DRS, then burn with DRS)

Its my go to vs Eldrazi, its my go to vs Delver, it even forces my shardless opponents to have to over commit because they have such few threats a maze + mom really shuts them down.

And since I run Maze + Depths Combo I've won many games copying Maze with Stage and a lot of creature matchups just get turned off when that happens.

[ironclad8690]

That's definitely an interesting approach. I think these choices all have their validations, and there is no real way of knowing which one is the best period, just which one works best for each player's style. Maze has saved my butt a few times in the past, and giving knights pseudo-vigilance is awesome. I just don't know what I would cut for it, probably a spell to keep my mana consistent. Same with DD/Stage combo. I like having the 22 "immediate" mana producers. Also having to sac one of your 2-3 lands to grab a maze can get awkward at times.

[TMagpie]

That's definitely an interesting approach. I think these choices all have their validations, and there is no real way of knowing which one is the best period, just which one works best for each player's style. Maze has saved my butt a few times in the past, and giving knights pseudo-vigilance is awesome. I just don't know what I would cut for it, probably a spell to keep my mana consistent. Same with DD/Stage combo. I like having the 22 "immediate" mana producers. Also having to sac one of your 2-3 lands to grab a maze can get awkward at times.

I had to cut so many cool creatures when I added depth/stage and maze. My creature list is super bare bones to make up for it. 22 lands, depths, maze, 3 equipment, 4 plow leaves very little in the forms of "try out this guy?"

[Warden]

What's everyone's thoughts on the flex land spots.
I've been running the dark depth combo ever since I've been playing with the deck, which I've enjoyed a lot as it can get you out of many tight spots.
As others have remarked though, it can mess with the consistency of the deck so I've been toying with the idea of trying other lands instead.

Other lands I've seen in similar spots:
- Cradle
- Cavern of Souls
- Horizon Canopy
- Maze of Ith (Great effect, doesn't tap for mana - similar to Dark Depths in that regard)

I'm probably missing a few (not including Karakas here, as I'm already running it).

Does any one have comments on which of these or others they like best? I can see a case for each of those, and downsides. Is this purely a meta call or are there objectively better things to be doing? (If it helps, I play most often vs Miracles, Elves, Show and Tell, Eldrazi, Maverick, 4c Loam).

I haven't played in months, but I'm on-and-off lurking.
My flex lands are:
1 Cradle
1 Karakas
1 DD
1 Stage
1 Forest #2 (making 4 basics) or fetch #7

I haven't found the need for Maze in a long while and I greatly dislike Horizon Canopy.
Given the delver-heavy meta I was playing in, Forest #2 was solid quite often. It also protected me against DnT, Nic Fit, and anything running Blood Moon.

Cradle is insane. If you have one, it's auto-include for me IMO. Viciano's vial Maverick and Herzog throughout the years demonstrate why this card is dope. Cradle also helps immensely with curving/zenithing/making mana with few lands.

As a side note, I haven't seen the meta shift since I've gone on hiatus. MTG not really a force in my life rn. Upcoming set looks boring.

[ironclad8690]

I haven't played in months, but I'm on-and-off lurking.
My flex lands are:
1 Cradle
1 Karakas
1 DD
1 Stage
1 Forest #2 (making 4 basics) or fetch #7

I haven't found the need for Maze in a long while and I greatly dislike Horizon Canopy.
Given the delver-heavy meta I was playing in, Forest #2 was solid quite often. It also protected me against DnT, Nic Fit, and anything running Blood Moon.

Cradle is insane. If you have one, it's auto-include for me IMO. Viciano's vial Maverick and Herzog throughout the years demonstrate why this card is dope. Cradle also helps immensely with curving/zenithing/making mana with few lands.

As a side note, I haven't seen the meta shift since I've gone on hiatus. MTG not really a force in my life rn. Upcoming set looks boring.

Are you on hiatus for any particular reason, or just taking a break? The world needs more M@vericks ;)

[DoomRabbit]

Thanks for the input, plenty of food for thought.

I tried something else last night, with a one of ghost quarter and life from the loam. That felt really good, played a long grindy game vs Miracles that I ended up winning by keeping him of of white mana, recurring wastelands for the tundras, and ghost quartering plains repeatedly until he ran out. Might keep playing with that for a bit, the second "free" land slot is up for discussion though ;)

I'd like to try cradle, I don't own one so it's a bit of an investment, but nothing stopping me from proxying one to see how it feels.

[Megadeus]

Cradle plus equipment feels like cheating. It's pretty insane.

[Claymore]

I played this "Stock" list in a challenge at the GP: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/540138#online

Except I had to swap in DD combo for Canopy/Cradle and tossed in Bind as #61.

Not so much to report, I got to beat DnT with a Bind on Mother of Runes to swing combat in my favor, and Scryb Ranger to get extra uses from Mother to nullify their Jitte and force my Jitte through. Was beat by Burn when I couldn't stick a Jitte, although I did manage to punt it a bit by not taking out Eidolons early, and made the mistake of siding out the DD combo which would have won game 2. Was beat by BR Reanimator in 3 when I couldn't answer a T1 Sire (although I did get to Bind a Griselbrand activation). Beat UR Bedlam Delver with just typical Maverick play.

Deck felt fairly well positioned, no super fast combo is out there other than Reanimator.

[menloe]

I was inspired by some elements of nic fit, but I think this deck shares a greater similarity with Maverick due to the toolbox with green sun's zenith. I think this also has better game against combo than nic fit.

Deathrite shaman, green sun's zenith (with dryad arbor), renegade rallier, and knight of the reliquary all help to ramp. Plus, I think the bigger stuff will come in in grindy matchups, games that'll go longer.

I agree with RobNC on this one and am only responding now because (1) you say you are a legacy noob and I want you to feel like people are paying attention to your concerns and (2) you might be a little confused about what Maverick and Nic Fit do. Let's get you to where you want to go.

Mother of Runes and dorks are a notable omission in your list. Really, we’re a GSZ/MoR/dork/KoTR/Wasteland deck with the ability to run various utility packages (typically SFM+equipment, but also P-Fire+Grove, DD+Stage, etc) and utility lands (Maze of Ith, Karakas, Grove of the Burnwillows, DD+Stage) depending on the build. Once you start to get away from those elements, you’re talking about a deck that is fundamentally different from a Maverick deck. In other words, it ain't just the GSZ, which is why I say we're a GSZ/MoR/dork/KoTR/Wasteland deck. They all work together to make the deck viable. As such, Maverick has a high number of core cards and very few flex spots. What flex we do have tends to be in the aforementioned utility package and land slots, but it appears that there is consensus on 2-3 SFM and 2-3 equipmunk (Jitte for sure, but also Batterskull and some number of the swords) and the P-Fire+Grove combo being worse than Thalia. (FWIW P-Fire til I die.)

It looks like you like to do some radical stuff in your deck building. Nic Fit is far less restrictive than Maverick in this regard. Beyond the few core cards (play sets of Cabal Therapy and Veteran Explorer, some number of Maelstrom Pulse and Pernicious Deed) and the B/G/x land base, basically the feckin sky is the limit. You always read about how Nic Fit is a legacy commander deck since people just run seemingly random but very powerful cards in it. (I mean, I’ve seen Sorin, Grim Nemesis in some builds.) The Veteran Explorer ramp helps you do that and I don't think there's really anyway to port that to Maverick without cutting key cards. I find the flexibility Nic Fit affords appealing because it helps you adapt to different meta games… and I guess I like the idea of playing Sorin, Grim Nemesis in legacy.

All that said, your deck has more in common with a Nic Fit deck than a Maverick deck. I want you to get constructive responses to your post and, unless you want the obligatory "+4 Mother of Runes, +2 Knight of the Reliquary, -4 Cabal Therapy" posts, you really should try the nice degenerates over in the Nic Fit thread.

Your first post referred to how you wanted to strip your opponent of hope. Well Cabal Therapy taking a look at your opponent's hand followed by Veteran Explorer followed by flashbacked Cabal Therapy is pretty a pretty good way to do that. Plus you get two basics off it and your opponent could get none depending on what they're playing.

[menloe]

I had to cut so many cool creatures when I added depth/stage and maze. My creature list is super bare bones to make up for it. 22 lands, depths, maze, 3 equipment, 4 plow leaves very little in the forms of "try out this guy?"

Gotta say, the absolute kewelest creature is a 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying and indestructible named Marit Lage.

[Warden]

Are you on hiatus for any particular reason, or just taking a break? The world needs more M@vericks ;)

Got engaged several months back. Haven't enjoyed the format as much during 2016. CNY meta is also ridiculous lol.


I agree with RobNC on this one and am only responding now because (1) you say you are a legacy noob and I want you to feel like people are paying attention to your concerns and (2) you might be a little confused about what Maverick and Nic Fit do. Let's get you to where you want to go.

Mother of Runes and dorks are a notable omission in your list. Really, we’re a GSZ/MoR/dork/KoTR/Wasteland deck with the ability to run various utility packages (typically SFM+equipment, but also P-Fire+Grove, DD+Stage, etc) and utility lands (Maze of Ith, Karakas, Grove of the Burnwillows, DD+Stage) depending on the build. Once you start to get away from those elements, you’re talking about a deck that is fundamentally different from a Maverick deck. In other words, it ain't just the GSZ, which is why I say we're a GSZ/MoR/dork/KoTR/Wasteland deck. They all work together to make the deck viable. As such, Maverick has a high number of core cards and very few flex spots. What flex we do have tends to be in the aforementioned utility package and land slots, but it appears that there is consensus on 2-3 SFM and 2-3 equipmunk (Jitte for sure, but also Batterskull and some number of the swords) and the P-Fire+Grove combo being worse than Thalia. (FWIW P-Fire til I die.)

It looks like you like to do some radical stuff in your deck building. Nic Fit is far less restrictive than Maverick in this regard. Beyond the few core cards (play sets of Cabal Therapy and Veteran Explorer, some number of Maelstrom Pulse and Pernicious Deed) and the B/G/x land base, basically the feckin sky is the limit. You always read about how Nic Fit is a legacy commander deck since people just run seemingly random but very powerful cards in it. (I mean, I’ve seen Sorin, Grim Nemesis in some builds.) The Veteran Explorer ramp helps you do that and I don't think there's really anyway to port that to Maverick without cutting key cards. I find the flexibility Nic Fit affords appealing because it helps you adapt to different meta games… and I guess I like the idea of playing Sorin, Grim Nemesis in legacy.

All that said, your deck has more in common with a Nic Fit deck than a Maverick deck. I want you to get constructive responses to your post and, unless you want the obligatory "+4 Mother of Runes, +2 Knight of the Reliquary, -4 Cabal Therapy" posts, you really should try the nice degenerates over in the Nic Fit thread.

Your first post referred to how you wanted to strip your opponent of hope. Well Cabal Therapy taking a look at your opponent's hand followed by Veteran Explorer followed by flashbacked Cabal Therapy is pretty a pretty good way to do that. Plus you get two basics off it and your opponent could get none depending on what they're playing.

^^This. Maverick revolves around Mom/Thalia/Wasteland/Reliquary backed by GSZ and the best GW supporting cast you can muster.

@Claymore: You still finding value in dual sylvans? When they stick, they're strong as all hell. But 2016 was not kind to them in my experiences. Often I'd rather go for the tutor effect in SFM or Recruiter. Wondering your thoughts here.

[menloe]

^^This. Maverick revolves around Mom/Thalia/Wasteland/Reliquary backed by GSZ and the best GW supporting cast you can muster.

Quite right. On another level, I love Maverick because KotR enables all of these extremely effective packages that might not fit well together in other decks. Punishing Fire and Dark Depths have a place in the deck because you can reliably tutor for the lands you need. And chomping a couple of lands to make you a new bestest bud, Marit Lage, is a fun thing to do to people.

That's in addition to the SFM package in the main and the Enlightened Tutor package out of the side. Sometimes one of the mainboard packages ain't great, so it's easy to side it out entirely and slot in various Tutor pieces depending on what you're playing against.

This goes back to the earlier discussion about land. I run (a pretty standard for Punishing Maverick) 26 lands main, including Maze of Ith, x3 Wasteland, x3 Grove of the Burnwillows, Dark Depths, Karakas, and Thespian's Stage. I run x1 Bojuka Bog in the side. I replaced Horizon Canopy with a basic Plains because there were a lot of games where I wanted x2 basics (think I got my ass et up by Blood Moon a lot that week) and because I wanted to increase the cost of my modern G/W Elves deck by $80. I am not sure what creatures, other than Thalia, who is a non-bo with me anyway, I miss as a result of running so many lands, but I do very much appreciate the powerful effects of my utility lands. They just make KotR better.

So, for those not playing P-Fire, I do think the DD+Stage and Maze of Ith mainboard and Bojuka Bog sideboard are worth considering because they are additional tutorable effects. Yer Surgicals, for instance, are good, but not tutorable. Like some of our creatures, these lands may look rinky-dink, and sometimes they suck to draw, but they all have applications and can definitely tilt, if not break, certain match ups. Think of the slots they occupy as spell slots and they start to look a lot cooler.

[ironclad8690]

1-3 drop in today's league.

Miracles: 2-1:
Grixis Control: 1-2
Eldrazi: 1-2
Omnishow: 0-2

[Claymore]

@Claymore: You still finding value in dual sylvans? When they stick, they're strong as all hell. But 2016 was not kind to them in my experiences. Often I'd rather go for the tutor effect in SFM or Recruiter. Wondering your thoughts here.


I only played in the single Challenge and haven't played the deck much else recently, but in the past I always felt Sylan is one of the most powerful cards in the deck. Being able to dig for removal (Swords), GSZ, or sideboard pieces always felt very strong. Cradle may help, but I don't know if the deck can take the turns off in expending most of its mana on tutor effects.

[oSeabass]

So, for those not playing P-Fire, I do think the DD+Stage and Maze of Ith mainboard and Bojuka Bog sideboard are worth considering because they are additional tutorable effects. Yer Surgicals, for instance, are good, but not tutorable. Like some of our creatures, these lands may look rinky-dink, and sometimes they suck to draw, but they all have applications and can definitely tilt, if not break, certain match ups. Think of the slots they occupy as spell slots and they start to look a lot cooler.

The reason I like Surgical is a little different to what I like Bog for. Bog is killer against all in graveyard style decks like Dredge and Reanimator, being able to attack multiple pieces at once is what shines there. Surgical shines in matchups where I need to deal with one problem card. For example, I was playing against 12 post in a game 2. He dropped a Cloudpost turn 1 and passed. My turn 1 I Wasteland his Cloudpost, then Surgical it. He scooped on the spot. Not saying this is the case in everything, but being able to remove 3x+ is sometimes backbreaking. Oh your opponent is all in on his Show & Tells and probably took out counterspells since you aren't playing blue? Thoughtseize one and Surgical it for a fun time. Elves combo, find a way to kill a problem elf or stop a N.O. and negate that part of their deck. Taking an entire chunk of a Legacy deck away is very strong IMHO.

TLDR: I run 2 Surgical and no Bog, but as Reanimator keeps growing I may squeeze in a Bog and maybe a Crop Rotation for a quick instant speed graveyard wipe.

[oSeabass]

Cradle plus equipment feels like cheating. It's pretty insane.

I second this. After playing a few games with Cradle I am in love. I liked having Batterskull already since it just wins games on the spot, but having Cradle in there makes the deck so much more aggressive. I was able to squeeze in a win vs. Enchantress by just throwing creatures on the table and turning them all sideways.

[TMagpie]

My biggest gripe with Cradle has always been that I hate running cards that are bad when you don't have a board. Often times when I have a board I am ahead and I don't feel the need to get "more ahead" when I could just ride my current advantage to victory.

But I've also faced the mirror with his Scooze + Cradle fighting my Scooze no Cradle and the matchup gets very dumb very quickly. Really, its about personal taste.

[pettdan]

Cradle is a very strong card in the deck in my experience. I've used it for about two years and usually with a 5 drop. I think the cradle usually allows you to get ahead of the opponent by ramping you, rather than you already being ahead. (Not saying you are wrong, rather that I have different experiences if the card.) Cradle besides enabling 5-drops also lets you use Tireless Tracker better and Scavenging Ooze. Another good use is when you are sacrificing your lands to Knight for fetching wastelands to rid the opponent of lands, in those situations Cradle allows you to keep playing spells while the opponent can't.

When playing Depths + Stage there is less need for a 5 drop hence Cradle is less of an obvious choice.

I suggest we don't count Dark Depths or Maze of Ith when discussing mana bases.

I 3-1'ed the local legacy event yesterday, playing (still) an experimental list with 1 tropical, 1 Leovold, 2 Trackers, 1 Thalia HC, 1 Titania, 3 StP, 3 Decay..
Basically had a lot of good matchups (DnT, RUgb Delver, Grixis Delver) and good draws and lost against a TES/ANT hybrid

[ironclad8690]

A couple buddies are having some success online with vial mav builds https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-wbg-32770#online

[warai]

A couple buddies are having some success online with vial mav builds https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-wbg-32770#online

Vial mav is the way to go in this meta.

You need your Thalia and Mom. You have recruiter to get any piece you need.

Now with Renegade Rallier to get waste or unearth creature or equipment, green sun zenith is not so solid with the 4 thalia plan plus the uncounterability and tricks you can do with Vial.

[ironclad8690]

I love zenith, but I think vial is secretly becoming stronger. It can certainly feel bad to play a teeg and turn off your other zeniths vs fair decks, or tax yourself to the point of not being able to zenith a knight, but I think the true strength of vial is the uncounterability aspect. You can also forego the manadorks and opt for a more d&t type plan (lessening the potency of your opponent's sweepers) if you are in a control heavy meta.

I think I might try out a vial build next, really want to combine that philosophy with my recent foray into spirit of the labyrinth. Also batterskull is putting up more results than sword of light and shadow at the moment, just something to think about.

[RobNC]

If you're interested in a vial version you may want to check out G/W Hatebears that was a thing in modern a while back (and since replaced essentially by W/B Hatebears/"Taxes" since BFZ came out), it may give some inspiration. In my opinion I feel like it may just end up a worse D&T, though, as you'd be missing half the tricks that make D&T so great and weakening the general Maverick strategy.

[lordofthepit]

A couple buddies are having some success online with vial mav builds https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-wbg-32770#online


Vial mav is the way to go in this meta.

You need your Thalia and Mom. You have recruiter to get any piece you need.

Now with Renegade Rallier to get waste or unearth creature or equipment, green sun zenith is not so solid with the 4 thalia plan plus the uncounterability and tricks you can do with Vial.

I would love more people to pick up the deck. I would speculate far fewer people are playing Vial Maverick than are playing either DNT or GSZ Maverick, but I think the conversion rate for the former is better. And I expect there is much more room for lists to be refined once people start working on it!

[Claymore]

For Vial Maverick, I would suggest people to try out Bind. It led to significant blow outs for me as a fun-of, and if Vial is letting you sit idle with mana (which may be a bad thing, when you could be Porting) then you can leave Bind up more often. It led to beating DnT by countering a Mom activation, countering the fetch portion of a Brainstorm by Miracles, and a Griselbrand activation.

[oSeabass]

I am crazy and like toolbox decks too much which is why I fell in love with Maverick in the first place. Lands with KotR, Equipment with SFM, Artifact/Enchantment with ETutor, Green Creatures with GSZ... LOVE IT.

I noticed a pattern of the amount of Legendary cards we have and run. Thalia 1.0/2.0, Gaddock Teeg father, Cradle, Karakas, Jitte, Dark Depths, now even Leovold, and even older sideboard/flex goodies like Linvala, Thrun, Sigarda, etc. I know the mana is tight and it doesn't allow a lot of higher drops, but I am considering playing around with Captain Sisay. She seems a little slow, but with an active Mom she can survive and help toolbox more. I think her search coupled with Library provides a lot to the filtering in the way Knight and fetches facilitate.

Nice Things:
4 CMC means no Abrupt Decay. Green means GSZable if you hit 5 mana (even though you could just tutor some of the items with GSZ anyway). Human which pushes the Cavern back into potential flex land spot.

Bad Things:
4 CMC means real slow. Needs to live to provide any benefit. 2 toughness dies to Bolt.

I'm going to be playing around with the idea of her being a 1/2 of and maybe tweaking the sideboard to play nicer with it. I don't know how many Legends would be useful now a days, where more were useful in the meta a few years back. Linvala seems nice being able to shut down opposing DRS, Elves combo, Griselbrand, etc.

Thoughts? Discuss?

[Megadeus]

I think with karakas everywhere the less legends you run, the better. I've cut down on number of Thalia total for this reason.

[TMagpie]

Cradle is a very strong card in the deck in my experience. I've used it for about two years and usually with a 5 drop. I think the cradle usually allows you to get ahead of the opponent by ramping you, rather than you already being ahead. (Not saying you are wrong, rather that I have different experiences if the card.) Cradle besides enabling 5-drops also lets you use Tireless Tracker better and Scavenging Ooze. Another good use is when you are sacrificing your lands to Knight for fetching wastelands to rid the opponent of lands, in those situations Cradle allows you to keep playing spells while the opponent can't.

When playing Depths + Stage there is less need for a 5 drop hence Cradle is less of an obvious choice.

I suggest we don't count Dark Depths or Maze of Ith when discussing mana bases.

I 3-1'ed the local legacy event yesterday, playing (still) an experimental list with 1 tropical, 1 Leovold, 2 Trackers, 1 Thalia HC, 1 Titania, 3 StP, 3 Decay..
Basically had a lot of good matchups (DnT, RUgb Delver, Grixis Delver) and good draws and lost against a TES/ANT hybrid

100% agreed. I used to run Sigarda or Thrun or Tracker main--but with Depths in the list and no cradle it just makes it impossible to ever be able to leverage those cards. And I've also lost to Cradle many different times and in many different ways--so I would never consider it bad. Just personal preference for me.

[TMagpie]

I am crazy and like toolbox decks too much which is why I fell in love with Maverick in the first place. Lands with KotR, Equipment with SFM, Artifact/Enchantment with ETutor, Green Creatures with GSZ... LOVE IT.

I noticed a pattern of the amount of Legendary cards we have and run. Thalia 1.0/2.0, Gaddock Teeg father, Cradle, Karakas, Jitte, Dark Depths, now even Leovold, and even older sideboard/flex goodies like Linvala, Thrun, Sigarda, etc. I know the mana is tight and it doesn't allow a lot of higher drops, but I am considering playing around with Captain Sisay. She seems a little slow, but with an active Mom she can survive and help toolbox more. I think her search coupled with Library provides a lot to the filtering in the way Knight and fetches facilitate.

Nice Things:
4 CMC means no Abrupt Decay. Green means GSZable if you hit 5 mana (even though you could just tutor some of the items with GSZ anyway). Human which pushes the Cavern back into potential flex land spot.

Bad Things:
4 CMC means real slow. Needs to live to provide any benefit. 2 toughness dies to Bolt.

I'm going to be playing around with the idea of her being a 1/2 of and maybe tweaking the sideboard to play nicer with it. I don't know how many Legends would be useful now a days, where more were useful in the meta a few years back. Linvala seems nice being able to shut down opposing DRS, Elves combo, Griselbrand, etc.

Thoughts? Discuss?

The math on this gets weirder now that Recruiter of the Guard exists.

Here's the reality.

If you want legendary lands, you can Zenith/Recruiter for Knight of the Reliquary.
If you want legendary equipment, you can Recruiter for Stoneforge Mystic.
If you want card advantage, you can Zenith/Recruiter for Tireless Tracker.

So here's the real question--what cards can you search for with Sisay that makes it worth using her over Recruiter of the Guard?

[ironclad8690]

I guess Sigarda and/or Thrun, Titania, Protector of Argoth. I would not try to include more than one of those in Maverick however.

In other news, I have taken a version of Vial Maverick into 2 leagues and 3-2'ed both of them:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Scryb Ranger

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard
4 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Banishing Light
1 Containment Priest

League 1:

Orzhov Death and Taxes: 0-2 I just got crushed under a superior draw
Death and Taxes: 2-0 I had the moms this time.
Miracles: 2-0
Miracles: 2-0 both times spirit of the labyrinth blew him out in response to cantrips, also thalia and mom did work. Vialing in Teeg in response to Terminus might be the best possible feeling in all of Magic.
ANT: 0-2 g1 I had him dead after an ad nauseam (Revoker on LED, he went down to 1 or something), but he has 1 blue mana. He ponders, and Tendrils of agony happens to be in his top 3. Game 2 wasn't close, I thoughtseized him twice but never drew a hatebear or DRS to disrupt him.

League 2:

Reid Duke BUG, but with multiple Toxic Deluge (yes, even with noble hierarch and TNN): 1-2
Death and Taxes: 2-1
Punishing Thing in the Ice: 1-2
Sneak and Show: 2-0
ANT: 2-1 (I lost game 2 because I thought he was on a different deck, and I didn't sideboard).

6-4 ain't too bad. Hoping to pull off a 5-0 soon :D

I might change my list too. So far we have a couple different iterations, tapedecky just 5-0'd yesterday with a version featuring a robust Recruiter package:

4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Flickerwisp
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Mother of Runes
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Banisher Priest
2 Choke
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Qasali Pridemage

This list looks really fun.

[NEELEY]

So vial Maverick i see. Looks kinda fun. I feel like their are some interesting choices. I'll have to try it out!

[warai]

I guess Sigarda and/or Thrun, Titania, Protector of Argoth. I would not try to include more than one of those in Maverick however.

In other news, I have taken a version of Vial Maverick into 2 leagues and 3-2'ed both of them:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Scryb Ranger

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard
4 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Banishing Light
1 Containment Priest

League 1:

Orzhov Death and Taxes: 0-2 I just got crushed under a superior draw
Death and Taxes: 2-0 I had the moms this time.
Miracles: 2-0
Miracles: 2-0 both times spirit of the labyrinth blew him out in response to cantrips, also thalia and mom did work. Vialing in Teeg in response to Terminus might be the best possible feeling in all of Magic.
ANT: 0-2 g1 I had him dead after an ad nauseam (Revoker on LED, he went down to 1 or something), but he has 1 blue mana. He ponders, and Tendrils of agony happens to be in his top 3. Game 2 wasn't close, I thoughtseized him twice but never drew a hatebear or DRS to disrupt him.

League 2:

Reid Duke BUG, but with multiple Toxic Deluge (yes, even with noble hierarch and TNN): 1-2
Death and Taxes: 2-1
Punishing Thing in the Ice: 1-2
Sneak and Show: 2-0
ANT: 2-1 (I lost game 2 because I thought he was on a different deck, and I didn't sideboard).

6-4 ain't too bad. Hoping to pull off a 5-0 soon :D

I might change my list too. So far we have a couple different iterations, tapedecky just 5-0'd yesterday with a version featuring a robust Recruiter package:

4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Flickerwisp
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Mother of Runes
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Banisher Priest
2 Choke
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Qasali Pridemage

This list looks really fun.

Nice :)

How did the Orzhov Pontiff worked for you? With the Recruiter package looks like a nice add to replace the Zealous Persecution against Elves/DnT but maybe a little bit too slow?
Why not 4 Thalia / 4 Mom Mainboard?

Renegade Rallier is going to be a house in this deck.

[oSeabass]

The math on this gets weirder now that Recruiter of the Guard exists.

Here's the reality.

If you want legendary lands, you can Zenith/Recruiter for Knight of the Reliquary.
If you want legendary equipment, you can Recruiter for Stoneforge Mystic.
If you want card advantage, you can Zenith/Recruiter for Tireless Tracker.

So here's the real question--what cards can you search for with Sisay that makes it worth using her over Recruiter of the Guard?

I haven't played around with TTracker, but after seeing how much I like having Cradle I think I'm going to try and squeeze him in. The problem is with 1/2 ofs, I don't play super frequently so I am left fantasizing about Magical Christmas land. Sisay can get Thrun, Linvala, Sigarda, but again a few of those are GSZ able. In a very old build back around early 2010's I remember running Fauna Shaman for generic creature tutoring, which was way too slow and seemed more like a win more. I think GSZ was in that build too, so I dunno what I was doing.

[TMagpie]

I haven't played around with TTracker, but after seeing how much I like having Cradle I think I'm going to try and squeeze him in. The problem is with 1/2 ofs, I don't play super frequently so I am left fantasizing about Magical Christmas land. Sisay can get Thrun, Linvala, Sigarda, but again a few of those are GSZ able. In a very old build back around early 2010's I remember running Fauna Shaman for generic creature tutoring, which was way too slow and seemed more like a win more. I think GSZ was in that build too, so I dunno what I was doing.

I'm not against the idea (Linvala seems super relevant)

Just that 4cc => Untap step is hard to do when 3cc => Cast next turn is more consistent and cheaper. What you're searching for would need to be strong enough to warrant the risk of a tempo loss.

The Tracker + Feast and Famine + Cradle was super good FYI, my biggest issue with it was that against Miracles I found that Cradle got so dead after a terminus and I also found myself still losing even after 4-5 clues with Tracker. I really enjoyed the cards, but it wasn't improving the matchup I wanted to shore up; mainly Miracles and Lands.

[TMagpie]

I'm prepping for GP San Jose side events and I'm trying to finalize my last two sideboard slots; I was hoping for some suggestions.

Creatures: 25
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells: 13
4 Green Sun’s Zenth
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dark Depths

Lands: 22
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian’s Stage

Sideboard: 15
3 Sanctum Prelate
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Toxic Deluge
2
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage

I am most worried about Lands, Aluren, Miracles, Belcher-esque decks, and Cloudpost/MUD decks.

[Megadeus]

MUD is pretty easy the more pride mage you run. Surprised so many people run only 1. I never like to go below 2 and even run 3 locally often

[ironclad8690]

Pithing needle is useful vs Lands, Aluren, and Miracles. With 3 Revoker and 2 Needle, I'd be surprised if SDT ever gets activated lol! As far as cloudpost and MUD, I have never had problems with those, or at least I don't face them commonly enough to really worry. Needle does hit Candelabra, Expedition Map, SDT (sometimes they run it), and Eye of Ugin out of Post, as well as Kuldotha Forgemaster, Lightning Greaves, and I guess Trading Post (sometimes?) out of MUD, but revoker is obvi better here for ability to name Grim Monolith and Metalworker.

[ironclad8690]

5-0 a league.

Miracles: 2-0
Miracles: 2-1
Miracles: 2-1
Sneak and Show: 2-1
Not sure what this was: 2-0

Spirit of the Labyrinth is pretty good vs Miracles. I guess that might have already been obvious, but it really hurts the 4 Ponder versions. I was playing my Zenith list this time. One match was vs Legends, he probably would have beaten me if not for the chess clock.

[Ganfar]

MUD is pretty easy the more pride mage you run. Surprised so many people run only 1. I never like to go below 2 and even run 3 locally often

As a MUD player, the green matchup is the worst. Pride Mage is a nightmare for MUD.

[RobNC]

MUD is pretty easy the more pride mage you run. Surprised so many people run only 1. I never like to go below 2 and even run 3 locally often

Don't you have a lot of Enchantress in your meta, though? I imagine it helps there too. With my local meta the Pridemage often does little but be an Exalted trigger.

[Megadeus]

Don't you have a lot of Enchantress in your meta, though? I imagine it helps there too. With my local meta the Pridemage often does little but be an Exalted trigger.

We do have a decent number of chalice and such, but pridemage is good in almost every match. Only fast combo is it really a dead card. Even against Shardless it can get pesky Strix out of the way for you.

[sanderanders]

I say revoker. Names food chain. Also good against sneak and show, miracles, storm, dnt.

Food Chain's activated ability is a mana ability, so Phyrexian Revoker does nothing here...

[jsn27]

Food Chain's activated ability is a mana ability, so Phyrexian Revoker does nothing here...

Revoker works on mana abilities.

[RobNC]

Food Chain's activated ability is a mana ability, so Phyrexian Revoker does nothing here...

Phyrexian Revoker will work, it's Pithing Needle that can't stop mana abilities.

[oSeabass]

Went 4-1 for the first time in a league and it felt great. Opening a Horizon Canopy out of my TCs made it even better!

1. 2-1 Elves. A lucky topdeck Containment Priest game 3 saved my bacon. Zealous Persecution is real strong here.
2. 2-0 Combo. Game 1 I wasted his mana source and had a Thalia. He dropped a LED and I knew what he was on. GSZ for Teeg = scoop. Game 2 he went for it and fizzled.
3. 2-0 Enchantress. Just overpowered with bodies and used mana to blow up problem things/pay for prison effects. Was scared by this, but overall seemed like I was in control both games.
4. 0-2 Jund. The card advantage was too great to overcome. Couldn't get anything to stick long enough and they out grinded me easy. Felt like a tough match. Chandra is real good against us.
5. 2-0 Merfolk. Mom is good. Was able to lock down and force counterspells (wasting a fish from his hand) on must counter cards like SoFI. Game 2 he had a TNN but it was just too late, I had an active Mom already and a Thalia locking stuff down.

I ran a list based on Ironclad's list and it worked great. I really am sold on Cradle after this league, it with equipment seriously feels like free wins. Dunno about the sideboard, might tweak it slightly but not much. I like the Moms still, but I do like the idea of the 1 of Safekeeper, 3/1 split maybe.

22 Lands
1 Bayou, 2 Savannah, 1 Scrubland, 1 Karakas, 4 Wasteland, 1 H Canopy, 1 Cradle, 2 Forest, 1 Plains, 4 WHeath, 4 VCatacomb

25 Dudes
4 Mom, 4 Thalia GoT, 2 SFM, 4 KotR, 2 Qasali, 1 Teeg Father, 4 DRS, 1 NH, 1 Scryb Ranger, 1 Scooze, 1 Dryad Arbor

13 Other Spells
4 GSZ, 4 StP, 1 Library, 1 Abrupt Decay, 1 Batterskull, 1 Sword F/I, 1 Jitte.

Sideboard=
1 Containment Priest, 2 Canonist, 1 Banishing Light, 2 Surgical, 3 Thoughtseize, 1 Choke, 2 ZP, 2 ADecay, 1 Teeg Father

[ironclad8690]

Nice, grats oseabass!

I have thought about changing the sideboard too. I based mine on Herzog's from a while ago, because he always had the most gas against sneak and show (which is peaking in popularity right now). After playing the list for a while, I think Pithing Needle deserves a spot somewhere, maybe for 1 Thoughtseize, but I am hesitant to cut one of the only chances we have against fast combo. I have also thought about cutting choke to make room for another gaddock teeg or planeswalker. I was reading Mzfroste's post about how he sideboard against decks like us, and he said he tries to bring in more answers to haymakers (like garruk, choke, Armageddon etc), so I am thinking perhaps we can cut those types of cards for needles or libraries. We can definitely overload their wear/tears (even more so if we play disenchant). That being said, miracles is actually somehow one of my best matchups right now, so I don't think I will change anything on that front. I am kind of excited to try out fatal push in my board, I am losing to delver a lot and a 1 mana answer to delver, shaman, goyf, peezy, stormchaser, swiftspear, and all of d&t's guys sounds good. I might just go with more abrupt decays though.

[TMagpie]

After much musing on my list--how necessary is it to run 1cc discard in Maverick sideboards?


I'm prepping for GP San Jose side events and I'm trying to finalize my last two sideboard slots; I was hoping for some suggestions.

Creatures: 25
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells: 13
4 Green Sun’s Zenth
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dark Depths

Lands: 22
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian’s Stage

Sideboard: 15
3 Sanctum Prelate
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Toxic Deluge
2
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage

I am most worried about Lands, Aluren, Miracles, Belcher-esque decks, and Cloudpost/MUD decks.

[ironclad8690]

I find them extremely necessary. I used to just count strictly on hatebears, but with Kozilek's return out there/Sudden shock all over the place in the sneak lists, as well as the anti-priest tech of omni-sneak, I really like the thoughtseizes. It also really helps to get to turn 2 when you can land a hatebear vs decks like storm. BR reanimator I am finding is inconsistent/weak to karakas/swords to plowshares/mother of runes + flier brickwalls enough to not need dedicated hate (this could be variance from small sample size).

I took a vial mav list to 5-0 today:

RW Painter: 2-1
Aggro Loam: 2-0
Maverick: 2-1
Aggro Loam: 2-1 (this was a close one, if not for chess clock he probably would have ground me out)
BUG TNN: 2-0 (wasn't close thanks to Batterskull g1 and him getting a little manascrewed and thalia locked game 2)

I added Prelate and Batterskull to the list, and I think my aggro loam matchup went from 40% to even, if not slightly favorable.

4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Qasali Pridemage
28

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
11

2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard
4 Thoughtseize
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Containment Priest

I am adding 3 Flats and 1 Plains instead of 4 Verdant. I am running out of mana producing lands too quickly via knight with the 8 fetch 6 regular lands, so maybe 7/7 or even 6 fetches 8 producing is better. Will keep you guys posted with my results!

[warai]

I find them extremely necessary. I used to just count strictly on hatebears, but with Kozilek's return out there/Sudden shock all over the place in the sneak lists, as well as the anti-priest tech of omni-sneak, I really like the thoughtseizes. It also really helps to get to turn 2 when you can land a hatebear vs decks like storm. BR reanimator I am finding is inconsistent/weak to karakas/swords to plowshares/mother of runes + flier brickwalls enough to not need dedicated hate (this could be variance from small sample size).

I took a vial mav list to 5-0 today:

RW Painter: 2-1
Aggro Loam: 2-0
Maverick: 2-1
Aggro Loam: 2-1 (this was a close one, if not for chess clock he probably would have ground me out)
BUG TNN: 2-0 (wasn't close thanks to Batterskull g1 and him getting a little manascrewed and thalia locked game 2)

I added Prelate and Batterskull to the list, and I think my aggro loam matchup went from 40% to even, if not slightly favorable.

4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Qasali Pridemage
28

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
11

2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard
4 Thoughtseize
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Containment Priest

I am adding 3 Flats and 1 Plains instead of 4 Verdant. I am running out of mana producing lands too quickly via knight with the 8 fetch 6 regular lands, so maybe 7/7 or even 6 fetches 8 producing is better. Will keep you guys posted with my results!

Wow, congrats on the result and the awesome list.

I am currently waiting impatiently for my Renegade Ralliers to arrive in the mail. Fun times ahead :cool:

[ironclad8690]

Whoops, there is also 1 Choke in my board. I can't wait to try Rallied either. Maybe 2 in place of 1 Qasali and 1 knight or something.

[DoomRabbit]

I've been running 2x Armageddon in my sideboard instead of chokes, because landing one with a knight in play is the most fun. Maybe not the most competitive choice, but what can I say, blowing up lands is fun.
Anyway, with vial in the list that seems even better actually as you can still get creatures in play after wrecking everyone's mana base. Something to consider maybe?

[menloe]

This might be sort of a dumb shit question so I hope you all will forgive me.

If you were designing Legacy Duel Decks: Maverick Variant vs. Other, what would the "Other" deck be? I ask for two reasons: (1) I want to build a third deck so my brother and/or poorer* m8s can jam legacy wiv me; and, (2) I feel like this might elicit some interesting responses from some of the more experienced mages on this thread.

Stipulations:
(1) Balanced game play is key. Winning T1 or T2 with a flying turducken is meh. Out-and-out trumps are acceptable provided the other deck has some way of dealing with it.
(2) The value of each deck should be roughly equivalent. This is weird in legacy since the cost of dual lands diverges pretty wildly, but the decks should be close enough that, like, if your mom bought this for you for xmas and you had to share this with your brother, neither would feel as though they were getting the shaft for selecting a particular deck.
(3) A theme of sorts is preferred, but not required. Maverick is a "good guys" deck with critters like Momma, Teeg fava, KotR, Thalia, etc, so maybe the other could turn towards the morally ambiguous if not evil side of MTG?
(4) There should be a high degree of card diversity between the decks. Obviously, staples are staples, but the decks should be different enough that each player can identify the cards as theirs.
(5) The deck can be from any point in legacy's development. The Other deck doesn't need to be good against the current meta, just play well against Maverick and vice versa. Got some random shit from 2003? Pet deck from 2007? Well, okay then.

It seems like 1 & 3 push us towards another creature-heavy, disruptive deck. Off the top: Eldrazi (despite turning off ur mom), Goblins, and Dragon Stompy all seem to roughly fit the bill.

Apologies if this has been asked before. I try and answer my own questions with previous posts, but I haven't seen a question like this before.

[Rascalyote]

This might be sort of a dumb shit question so I hope you all will forgive me.

If you were designing Legacy Duel Decks: Maverick Variant vs. Other, what would the "Other" deck be? I ask for two reasons: (1) I want to build a third deck so my brother and/or poorer* m8s can jam legacy wiv me; and, (2) I feel like this might elicit some interesting responses from some of the more experienced mages on this thread.

Stipulations:
(1) Balanced game play is key. Winning T1 or T2 with a flying turducken is meh. Out-and-out trumps are acceptable provided the other deck has some way of dealing with it.
(2) The value of each deck should be roughly equivalent. This is weird in legacy since the cost of dual lands diverges pretty wildly, but the decks should be close enough that, like, if your mom bought this for you for xmas and you had to share this with your brother, neither would feel as though they were getting the shaft for selecting a particular deck.
(3) A theme of sorts is preferred, but not required. Maverick is a "good guys" deck with critters like Momma, Teeg fava, KotR, Thalia, etc, so maybe the other could turn towards the morally ambiguous if not evil side of MTG?
(4) There should be a high degree of card diversity between the decks. Obviously, staples are staples, but the decks should be different enough that each player can identify the cards as theirs.
(5) The deck can be from any point in legacy's development. The Other deck doesn't need to be good against the current meta, just play well against Maverick and vice versa. Got some random shit from 2003? Pet deck from 2007? Well, okay then.

It seems like 1 & 3 push us towards another creature-heavy, disruptive deck. Off the top: Eldrazi (despite turning off ur mom), Goblins, and Dragon Stompy all seem to roughly fit the bill.

Apologies if this has been asked before. I try and answer my own questions with previous posts, but I haven't seen a question like this before.

I haven't played the matchup in a while but I used to have really fun matches vs Punishing Jund with Maverick (though a lot of games tended to grind and take a long time - which some might not like). So I'd go with Jund, it isn't 'evil' per say but it feels like a more darker side of Maverick where you don't play white and are more into black. They don't share that many cards outside of Deathrite Shaman and unless I'm missing something should be around the same price range. I'd shy away from running Dark Depths in the Maverick deck as Jund doesn't really interact with it unless you put stuff like Edict in it.

[menloe]

I haven't played the matchup in a while but I used to have really fun matches vs Punishing Jund with Maverick (though a lot of games tended to grind and take a long time - which some might not like). So I'd go with Jund, it isn't 'evil' per say but it feels like a more darker side of Maverick where you don't play white and are more into black. They don't share that many cards outside of Deathrite Shaman and unless I'm missing something should be around the same price range. I'd shy away from running Dark Depths in the Maverick deck as Jund doesn't really interact with it unless you put stuff like Edict in it.

Cheers and good answer! I also enjoy this match up, though I play Punishing Maverick. I have the parts for GWB Maverick and could transition to make the match more interesting.

[TMagpie]

This might be sort of a dumb shit question so I hope you all will forgive me.

If you were designing Legacy Duel Decks: Maverick Variant vs. Other, what would the "Other" deck be? I ask for two reasons: (1) I want to build a third deck so my brother and/or poorer* m8s can jam legacy wiv me; and, (2) I feel like this might elicit some interesting responses from some of the more experienced mages on this thread.

Stipulations:
(1) Balanced game play is key. Winning T1 or T2 with a flying turducken is meh. Out-and-out trumps are acceptable provided the other deck has some way of dealing with it.
(2) The value of each deck should be roughly equivalent. This is weird in legacy since the cost of dual lands diverges pretty wildly, but the decks should be close enough that, like, if your mom bought this for you for xmas and you had to share this with your brother, neither would feel as though they were getting the shaft for selecting a particular deck.
(3) A theme of sorts is preferred, but not required. Maverick is a "good guys" deck with critters like Momma, Teeg fava, KotR, Thalia, etc, so maybe the other could turn towards the morally ambiguous if not evil side of MTG?
(4) There should be a high degree of card diversity between the decks. Obviously, staples are staples, but the decks should be different enough that each player can identify the cards as theirs.
(5) The deck can be from any point in legacy's development. The Other deck doesn't need to be good against the current meta, just play well against Maverick and vice versa. Got some random shit from 2003? Pet deck from 2007? Well, okay then.

It seems like 1 & 3 push us towards another creature-heavy, disruptive deck. Off the top: Eldrazi (despite turning off ur mom), Goblins, and Dragon Stompy all seem to roughly fit the bill.

Apologies if this has been asked before. I try and answer my own questions with previous posts, but I haven't seen a question like this before.

Shardless would have been my first pick--but costs are costs.

Food Chain is the other--but, once again, costs

Goblins is another where the matchup gets super grindy and super different, with haymakers on both sides.

[Megadeus]

I always thought stoneblade matches were interesting.

[Thunderknight]

There's the classic "Maverick vs Grixis Delver".

[TMagpie]

I always thought stoneblade matches were interesting.

Well, Maverick vs Death and Taxes is one of my favorites. Between their flyers, your fatties, their revokers, your pridemages, their flickerwhisps, and your sweepers--the matchup is super even and super interactive.

But I had also assumed that he was asking for a deck that is super different from his current list. Usually the "____ vs ____" deck boxes have a theme about them about two opposite philosophies or colors fighting each other.

[Thunderknight]

Well, Maverick vs Death and Taxes is one of my favorites. Between their flyers, your fatties, their revokers, your pridemages, their flickerwhisps, and your sweepers--the matchup is super even and super interactive.

But I had also assumed that he was asking for a deck that is super different from his current list. Usually the "____ vs ____" deck boxes have a theme about them about two opposite philosophies or colors fighting each other.

As far as "Evil" fair decks. THere's Shardless Leovold.

[menloe]

Well, Maverick vs Death and Taxes is one of my favorites. Between their flyers, your fatties, their revokers, your pridemages, their flickerwhisps, and your sweepers--the matchup is super even and super interactive.

But I had also assumed that he was asking for a deck that is super different from his current list. Usually the "____ vs ____" deck boxes have a theme about them about two opposite philosophies or colors fighting each other.

You are right, but any and all suggestions are welcome. Game play is my primary interest so your perspective on D&T is relevant. The other factors, along with factors like cost and what cards I have sitting around, will help decide between decks that meet the game play requirement.

I very much appreciate the input so far. Y'all are an accommodating bunch.

[Claymore]

My problem with the DnT matchup is it can quickly devolve into "who gets Jitte + Mom out first". The game is quickly over after that.

Goblins has a lot of tools to deal with a Jitte (last I checked) so that might be a good direction.

[TMagpie]

My problem with the DnT matchup is it can quickly devolve into "who gets Jitte + Mom out first". The game is quickly over after that.

Goblins has a lot of tools to deal with a Jitte (last I checked) so that might be a good direction.

I guess it depends how you define what a "good" matchup is.

For example, with DnT vs Mav, *because* the game circles around who gets Jitte/Mom first; there is an assumed trajectory that both players will be following from which you can use as the baseline when reading their lines of play. And as you circumvent the predicted lines each player traverses, you get this super mental back and forth of pre-emptive or delayed casting of spells.

Goblins is more of a grindfest where Goblin plays an aggressive control deck while maverick plays the defensive aggro deck. As Goblins durdles in peace, he is able to generate overwhelming card advantage. Maverick, on the other hand, needs to put the game away before there are too many cards drawn and too many tokens produced. This puts Maverick on the clock, but it also forces maverick to disrupt and control the board *as if* it were the control deck. Less back and forth mental magic and more about navigating most efficient lines of play.

Both are super good, and I can see how one is more interesting than the other depending on player.

[ironclad8690]

I think UR Delver would be a good opponent for a Maverick duel deck. It is a very interactive matchup, and cheaper than other delver decks since it doesn't need wasteland.

[Thunderknight]

I went 2-1 with Leovold's Maverick on my weekly Legacy night.

2-0 with Grixis Delver (1-0)

2-0 with Sneak and Show (2-0)

1-2 with 4 Color Midrange: Leovold's Midrange (2-1).

I feel pretty great just GSZ with Leovold. Also I've made the notion to go back and run Bird of Paradise. I've won more games with just a BoP than with any of my other creatures because no one expects it.

[DoomRabbit]

I feel pretty great just GSZ with Leovold.

Does that mean no Trop? I've been wondering how well he would play without the blue land.

[Thunderknight]

Does that mean no Trop? I've been wondering how well he would play without the blue land.

I do run a Trop just for safety reason, but I going to try to replace it with a different land, probably going to go back to either Horizon Canopy or Maze of Ith.

[TMagpie]

Did a weekly event last night, went 1-1-1, so not too good. But it made me wonder about maze of ith.

There are some matchups where its just the best, allowing to be able to do so much. But other matchups where it just saves you a few points of damage and that's about it.

The question I have is--can Maze be a sideboard card? Like, it seems like most lists either run Maze main or don't run maze at all. For non-maze players--how do you usually deal with fast delver draws? For the maze players (like myself) could you ever see it being a sideboard card?

[Thunderknight]

Did a weekly event last night, went 1-1-1, so not too good. But it made me wonder about maze of ith.

There are some matchups where its just the best, allowing to be able to do so much. But other matchups where it just saves you a few points of damage and that's about it.

The question I have is--can Maze be a sideboard card? Like, it seems like most lists either run Maze main or don't run maze at all. For non-maze players--how do you usually deal with fast delver draws? For the maze players (like myself) could you ever see it being a sideboard card?

The card is very depending on your meta. If you feel that there's enough creatures that you can justify running the card, then go for it. Its also has the neat combat trick with Knight, however Scrub Ranger accomplish the same trick as well. Maze isn't a sideboard card intitally, if anything, you bring the card out for a better land (Bojika Bog for Etc).

Maze is good for the follwoing decks.
Eldarzi, Infect, Delver, Maverick, DnT, Shardless, etc

[ironclad8690]

I cut maze of ith shortly after the printing of tnn. It just felt so lackluster after going from being one of the best cards against blade to being garbage in that matchup, and everything else features craptons of wastelands/ports. My approach to the creature matchups now is to get batterskull online so I don't die, remove creatures to which equipment is attempted to be equipped, get my own jittes/sofai's online. When it doesn't work out I just lose, but maze wasn't helping much in those situations anyway, just delaying the inevitable (and getting blown out by topdecked stifle/port/wastelands). Maze was the tits when UW stoneblade was a thing, but it has been years and the card has gotten much worse (especially now that tempo, midrange, AND control decks are all playing TNN).

[Thunderknight]

What are y'all SB choices aganist Food Chain? What do you bring in/bring out?

[ironclad8690]

+2 Canonist, +2 Decay -1 Teeg, -1 Thalia, -1 Mom (g charm, deluge etc), -1 Noble Hierarch.

From zenith version.

[RPD]

Just saw this list on MTGgoldfish and it's interesting. Would like to read some opinions about their sideboard tech (enlightened tutor + some toolboxy enchantments and artifacts)

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/533519#paper

On the gaea's cradle topic, I don't see any reason not to run it. Cradle + equipments/tracker/ooze is insane (plus, you tend to go low on lands thanks to wasteland, so having some creatures but 2 lands is not unreasonable)

Also, any consensus about basic swamp? My budget can't afford a second bayou but I feel like I need more black sources (too many times where I couldn't cast decay or zealous persecution)

One more thing, does someone know good maverick gameplay videos? I usually learn a lot by watching other people play and comment their plays. Sadly, channelfireball has nothing.

[ironclad8690]

Just went 3-2 in a league,coming off of a 4-1 from the other day:

Miracles: 2-1
Grixis Reanimator: 2-0
BUG Delver: 0-2
Aggro Loam: 0-2 (bad variance here)
Burn: 2-0

To answer above points:

1) E Tutor board: it can be awesome if you want better answers to more stuff, but generally weak vs the top decks. Better to have more focused approach with 2 ofs or 3 ofs vs Delver and Miracles and stuff.

2) Basic Swamp: I would recommend against it, but you can always change your deck to become more junk-like (bobs, thoughtseizes main, 3-4 decays main), and it isn't so bad. It casts only deathrite shaman otherwise, and that it just bad.


3) Videos:

http://tcdecks.net/results_videos.php?token=Videos&tname=&from=&to=&player=&aname=Maverick&format=Noformat

Enjoy!

I am thinking about putting something together like thrabenuniversity.com but for Maverick. Would anyone be interested in that? Basically just a hub of Maverick content ranging from history to articles to an extensive coverage section. Maybe it can be called "The Reliquary" or something like that lol

[RPD]

Well, I'm also playing maindeck decay so it can cast that too. I agree that it's probably not worth it though.

If you have time to do it, I would definitely read something like thraben university for maverick.

[RobNC]

Basic swamp often feels bad, especially if it's in a non-DRS opening hand.

If you want one more GB source try an Overgrown Tomb. If you only have one shockland in the deck to worry about it's easy to play accordingly. You can fetch it first at the end of an opponent's turn like a Modern player or just be happy that you only have to pay the 2 life once per game; it's not bad like a blue shockland is when playing Daze.

Or if you don't have a Scrubland you can get one of those about half the price of a Bayou.

[ironclad8690]

Yes, actually the ideal manabase for a zenith version is close to this:

2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept
4 Verdant
4 Waste
1 Karakas
1 Horizon
1 Gaea's Cradle

Only need 1 bayou

[ironclad8690]

Went 3-2 in another league.

UR Delver: 2-0
Elves: 0-2
Shardless BUG: 2-1
Jund: 2-1
Miracles (Sam Roukas): 1-2

Almost got there g3 v miracles, but a Terminus followed by Mentor into entreat for 3 sealed the deal for him.

[Thunderknight]

Has anyone been trying out Renegade Railler?

[BlackNight]

Hi ironclaud8690,

congrats for your results on MTGO :)

I have some questions for you:

1) Which do you think is the best version of maverick ATM? Vial or zenith?

2) What do you think about Thalia HC in the zenith version?

Thx :smile:

[ironclad8690]

I am really not sure. Vial has better game vs delver and aggro loam, maybe miracles too. Zenith however gives you insurance against random stuff and topdecks better. I think they are both equal, just depends on what you want to prepare for. Either way Zealous Persecution is a house and swings a ton of matchups (this new Reid duke brew, d&t).

I tried Thalia HC, she was awesome sometimes and really lackluster from behind. I may give her another try though, been a while since I tried that classic winning list with 3.

[BlackNight]

Thx for answers :smile:


I tried Thalia HC, she was awesome sometimes and really lackluster from behind. I may give her another try though, been a while since I tried that classic winning list with 3.

can you share the list? pls

I wanna test Thalia HC, she is impressive vs 3-4 colors decks.

[ironclad8690]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/476777#online

That list is a good starting spot. I would try to make room for a batterskull however, but that's just me :)

[ironclad8690]

Tried Thalia, Heretic Cathar again. Zenith list, went 2-3:

Birds: 2-1
Eldrazi: 2-0
Lands: 1-2
Lands: 0-2 same player. stupid modo >:(
Burn: 1-2 (facepalm)

I remembered why I cut her. She is just too slow in many matchups and gets bounced by Karakas. Having your 3-mana card get bounced feels miserable. Perhaps she is right in somebody's build or playstyle, but I think I am gonna put her back on the shelf.

I am not sure what to try next. I am feeling sandwiched between things like BUG, Miracles, and Lands. It is really hard to get above 3 mana vs lands because every hand is a mox diamond hand with punishing fire it seems. This is one matchup where vial and prelate help a lot.

[DoomRabbit]

I played in the legacy dutch open this weekend, went 2-2 then dropped for car ride home reasons ;)

1-2 vs Mono red sneak attack
G1: Early Big Thalia with SoFI carried the game
G2: T1 blood moon, held my own, but was so far back I couldn't get there even through he never hit a sneak attack. Got killed by Godo carrying a batterskull.
G3: mull to 5, he then turn 2 or 3 hit me with sneak attack, griselbrand + worldspine worm.

2-0 vs BR Reanimator
G1: He reveals chancellor so I know what I'm up against, I cast Mom into the tax to get rid of it. Then proceed to swords the sire of insanity and the chancellor he reanimates on consecutive turns, land Thalia and stop him from casting much else while I beat him down from 28.
G2: Keep 6 card hand with path, surgical and containment priest (luckyyyyy), he thoughtseizes me, takes the surgical, t2 I draw the second one (luckyyyyyerrr), he exhumes with sire and grave titan in the yard, I surgical the sire, and swords the titan, then just have to fight through the zombies with a big knight while keeping up containment priest just in case he pulls something off.

1-2 vs Grixis delver
G1: Win with a relatively quick dark depths assembly (drew the stage, so only needed one knight activation).
G2: Kept a greedy hand that relied a lot on dorks and he had all the bolts he needed while killing me with 2 flipped delvers very fast.
G3: Did not learn from my previous mistake and got beat up pretty quick by pyromancer this time. Drew a zealous persecution with only green mana in play :rolleyes:, not my finest hour.

2-0 vs Sneak and Show
G1: he leads with ancient tomb, petal, show and tell. I happen to have a karakas in my opener (luckyyyyy). He happens to have Emrakul as his chosen card (luckyyyyyerrr). So I bounce that, land a thalia and lock him out of the game while killing him with 2/2s.
G2: He lands an early blood moon, but I have basic plains in play and a forest in hand, so no issues and kill him fast with a knight.

Overall had a lot of fun, got to play against decks I don't get to play against very often (if at all). I wanted to play with a cradle, but couldn't borrow one, so went back to dark depth, which was nice to have, but also a pain.

List was:

[Creatures]
3 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Thalia GoT
2 Thalia HC
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Renegade Rallier (did not get to cast it once, so no idea how he goes)

[Instants]
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares

[Sorceries]
4 Green Sun's Zenith

[Artifacts]
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

[Enchantments]
1 Sylvan Library

[Lands]
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Thespian Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland

[Sideboard]
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Choke
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Garruk Relentless

[BlackNight]

@Ironclad


You've been very unlucky with MU's ...

1) Lands is unfavored with mazes, Abrupt, fires, and tabernacle...
2) I think burn is semi-unwinnable...too fast for maverick

[Megadeus]

I heavily disagree. I think burn is a good match up. I have had very little trouble with burn both with and without batterskull. Can't remember the last time I lost to it. They basically must answer everything you play. I could see a good burn player causing trouble, but the average burn player you should defeat fairly easily assuming your draw is decent

[BlackNight]

If burn player kill your mom/deathrite/stoneforge when they come in play i think is impossibile. If burn go only face with bolts we can win (with a good hand) but if he kills our key creatures in think is lost. Personally i have a better winrate vs Miracles....

[ironclad8690]

I kept an opener g3 with a batterskull but without a stoneforge. I played 3 nonbasics, and then drew stoneforge and he vortexed me the turn before batterskull came online. From there, he Price of Progressed me down to 10, chain lightninged me, I ended up taking 4 points from the vortex and then he skullcracked me the turn I was going to attack for lethal.

Do you guys bring canonist in vs burn? I have been doing it, but it doesn't really feel very good.

[TMagpie]

If burn player kill your mom/deathrite/stoneforge when they come in play i think is impossibile. If burn go only face with bolts we can win (with a good hand) but if he kills our key creatures in think is lost. Personally i have a better winrate vs Miracles....

My experience with burn is that I win zero of the play-test games and yet have won all but two of my burn match-ups in any event with more than 5 rounds because I am luck-sack that deserves to "burn" in hell for somehow winning those games.

The most important card in the burn matchup is Qasali Pridemage and Deathrite Shaman. Theoretically Mother of Runes also counts but you don't actually care if she dies.

Burn kills you in three primary ways:

a.) "Getting There," also known as their fast-kill option.
b.) Burning you low and then landing an Eidolon of Great Revels to prevent you from turning the game around fast enough for them to top-deck more burn spells.
c.) Sulfuric-Fucking-Vortex the turn before you stabilize preventing you from getting out of burn range.

2/3 of these scenarios are stopped by Qasali Pridemage. He is your friend. He is your ally. And he is the main way you get around their trump cards.

You will not win if their plan (a) happens. Just hope Thalia + Life gain is enough.

But plans (b) and (c)? Those you can stop. Those you can prepare for. Make sure they get lucky when they beat you. Kill the enchantments.

[ironclad8690]

Yep, exactly this. I got a.'ed then .c'ed

[RPD]

Now that we talk about the burn matchup, I wanted to do a quick question about the last play of the famous Sullivan vs Merriam match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhWXEKbtCiw (from min 26)

Maverick player
13 life
5 lands (forest, plains, wasteland, dryad arbor and savannah)
4/4 KotR on the battlefield
jitte, qasali and canonist in hand

Burn player
13 life
4 mountains (all tapped)
Sulfuric vortex and grim lavamancer on the battlefield (no cards in the graveyard)
4 cards in hand

What would be your play? This are the lines I can think of:

1 (Jitte line) Play jitte and equip, break wasteland on dryad and attack with knight, kill lavamancer with jitte. Burn player goes to 7 life, 5 after sulfuric vortex. Burn would need to have 11 damage on spells to kill maverick. If you survive that turn, qasali kills vortex and everything stabilizes.

2 (Merriam's line) Play qasali and canonist, leave wasteland up for blocking with qasali (in case he has any haste creature) and blowing vortex. Doesn't play around price of progress.

3 (Upgraded Merriam's line) Play qasali and canonist, break wasteland on dryad and attack with knight. Burn player goes to 6, 4 after vortex. Similar to the first line, but shuts off flame rift while allowing lavamancer to live.

In the end, I think that options 1 and 3 are equally good (both disrupt in different ways) and play around the really problematic card (price of progress is the only card that can hit for a ton of damage)

Canonist is okay in this matchup, but I mean, burn can play around it just fine (one spell in his turn, one spell in your turn)

[Megadeus]

I think I go Pridemage. Jitte, keep wasteland open and pass. I want knight to stay active in case of price because at this point my board isn't great against it. I'm very conservative in the match up though, especially when they have cards in hand. I don't think price is especially good against this deck though either so I've found that somewhat often people board it out against me.

[ironclad8690]

Active knight usually wins the matchup on it's own, you can just plow your own dude and time walk them 3 times.

[ironclad8690]

Updated my vial list and went 5-0 again :D


4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sanctum Prelate

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterksull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Containment Priest


Pox: 2-0
Burn: 2-0
Mentor Miracles: 2-1
Reid Duke Dark Bant (with SFM + Swords to Plowshares): 2-0
BUG Delver: 2-0

This list feels pretty good. Postboard games are great with 3 Abrupt Decay. They come in vs almost everything (obv not combo besides elves). Scryb Ranger continues to impress me and take people randomly by surprise (saving your own Bayou/Savannah in response to a Wasteland is huge). I recommend ppl to try this list out.

[oSeabass]

Updated my vial list and went 5-0 again :D


4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sanctum Prelate

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterksull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Containment Priest


Pox: 2-0
Burn: 2-0
Mentor Miracles: 2-1
Reid Duke Dark Bant (with SFM + Swords to Plowshares): 2-0
BUG Delver: 2-0

This list feels pretty good. Postboard games are great with 3 Abrupt Decay. They come in vs almost everything (obv not combo besides elves). Scryb Ranger continues to impress me and take people randomly by surprise (saving your own Bayou/Savannah in response to a Wasteland is huge). I recommend ppl to try this list out.

I was going to ask what you let your vials get to, but then realized it's probably some crazy mix of whats in hand and in play etc. Having it on 2 seems like a sweet spot, and it feels like ticking it to 3 more or less shows your hand on stuff (KOTR) coming in. Have you ran into any problems with vial counters and having it lead to reads from opponents based on CMC? I know I do this at times versus DnT just wondering if you felt any effect.

[TMagpie]

Now that we talk about the burn matchup, I wanted to do a quick question about the last play of the famous Sullivan vs Merriam match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhWXEKbtCiw (from min 26)

Maverick player
13 life
5 lands (forest, plains, wasteland, dryad arbor and savannah)
4/4 KotR on the battlefield
jitte, qasali and canonist in hand

Burn player
13 life
4 mountains (all tapped)
Sulfuric vortex and grim lavamancer on the battlefield (no cards in the graveyard)
4 cards in hand

What would be your play? This are the lines I can think of:

1 (Jitte line) Play jitte and equip, break wasteland on dryad and attack with knight, kill lavamancer with jitte. Burn player goes to 7 life, 5 after sulfuric vortex. Burn would need to have 11 damage on spells to kill maverick. If you survive that turn, qasali kills vortex and everything stabilizes.

2 (Merriam's line) Play qasali and canonist, leave wasteland up for blocking with qasali (in case he has any haste creature) and blowing vortex. Doesn't play around price of progress.

3 (Upgraded Merriam's line) Play qasali and canonist, break wasteland on dryad and attack with knight. Burn player goes to 6, 4 after vortex. Similar to the first line, but shuts off flame rift while allowing lavamancer to live.

In the end, I think that options 1 and 3 are equally good (both disrupt in different ways) and play around the really problematic card (price of progress is the only card that can hit for a ton of damage)

Canonist is okay in this matchup, but I mean, burn can play around it just fine (one spell in his turn, one spell in your turn)

I would much rather have cast pridemage, attacked with Arbor for 2, eot grab Maze + pridemage the vortex, next turn attack with Knight + Arbor using maze to untap knight. I don't like not having the anti-price option of wasteland.

[Navsi]

1 (Jitte line) Play jitte and equip, break wasteland on dryad and attack with knight, kill lavamancer with jitte. Burn player goes to 7 life, 5 after sulfuric vortex. Burn would need to have 11 damage on spells to kill maverick. If you survive that turn, qasali kills vortex and everything stabilizes.

2 (Merriam's line) Play qasali and canonist, leave wasteland up for blocking with qasali (in case he has any haste creature) and blowing vortex. Doesn't play around price of progress.

3 (Upgraded Merriam's line) Play qasali and canonist, break wasteland on dryad and attack with knight. Burn player goes to 6, 4 after vortex. Similar to the first line, but shuts off flame rift while allowing lavamancer to live.

In the end, I think that options 1 and 3 are equally good (both disrupt in different ways) and play around the really problematic card (price of progress is the only card that can hit for a ton of damage)

Can't you improve the Jitte line further by using Waste on the Savannah rather than the Arbor? That way you can completely blank PoP by killing your own Arbor with Jitte if necessary.

[nicoleptik]

Killing Arbor with a jitte counter grants you the same amount of life as a jitte counter...

[ironclad8690]

However the vortex on the board forces the kill arbor line if he goes for price (by negating life gain).

Ultimately, I think the biggest issue is playing too proactively will kill you against burn. The cost of tapping out to play a bunch of dudes/equips is too great. You have to realize that you are the control deck and sometimes the best play might be to not do anything at all.

This is what makes maverick awesome. Anyone can daze a searing blaze, but knowing when to commit to the board is truly challenging.

[lordofthepit]

Updated my vial list and went 5-0 again :D


4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sanctum Prelate

4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterksull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy

Sideboard
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Choke
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Containment Priest


Pox: 2-0
Burn: 2-0
Mentor Miracles: 2-1
Reid Duke Dark Bant (with SFM + Swords to Plowshares): 2-0
BUG Delver: 2-0

This list feels pretty good. Postboard games are great with 3 Abrupt Decay. They come in vs almost everything (obv not combo besides elves). Scryb Ranger continues to impress me and take people randomly by surprise (saving your own Bayou/Savannah in response to a Wasteland is huge). I recommend ppl to try this list out.

Hell yeah!

Have you found TNN to be an issue, considering you're a bit light on answers?

[TMagpie]

Hell yeah!

Have you found TNN to be an issue, considering you're a bit light on answers?

2 Scryb 1 SoFi and 4 KotR is a lot of answers to True-Name actually.

My favorite answer recently has been Maze of Ith allowing me to go wide vs a blocking True-Name.

[ironclad8690]

Yeah, like tmagpie said I just go wider. Haven't yet had the dork -> tnn -> equipment happen against me. The tnn decks are all super greedy, so I just sort of wasteland them and tax their cantrips, they usually stumble to the point where I can get an active knight or equipment. postboard you get zealous and decays and choke.

[pettdan]

Now that we talk about the burn matchup, I wanted to do a quick question about the last play of the famous Sullivan vs Merriam match
[...]
What would be your play

Cradle is good for enabling more play here (if it's still in the library), but hard to say if it's a better play. Play Qasali, sac Savannah to knight and fetch Cradle, tap for three mana and tap another land to cast and equip Jitte to Arbor, attack with exalted Arbor to gain two counters on Jitte. You have an untapped Wasteland, two Jitte counters and the Qasali. I think kill the lavamancer but keep the wasteland untapped in case of double Prices.

[RPD]

I like the idea of killing dryad with jitte (or at least having the possibility in response to a PoP). Fetching cradle for casting even more things is interesting too, I didn't count it since I was so sure that knight needed to attack... not so sure after reading your answers.

@ironclad8690 I know that we're a control deck, but it's not like we're an instant speed control deck, so playing something is the right play (even better, considering that burn usually has many of the red eidolons). What could be interesting is, as others have said, not attacking with knight, because knight activations is our real instant speed play.

In other words, what do you play around by not playing anything and what's the risk of following the lines that have been mentioned here (that involve casting half your hand)?

[TMagpie]

Yeah, like tmagpie said I just go wider. Haven't yet had the dork -> tnn -> equipment happen against me. The tnn decks are all super greedy, so I just sort of wasteland them and tax their cantrips, they usually stumble to the point where I can get an active knight or equipment. postboard you get zealous and decays and choke.

Even if they do--without 4 Revokers you just pridemage/rec sage their jitte and race them with whatever.

I've also had many True-Name matchups where I resolve a 5/5 Knight, they don't attack since I win the race, and I spend 2 turns making a marit lage and killing them.

[ironclad8690]

I like the idea of killing dryad with jitte (or at least having the possibility in response to a PoP). Fetching cradle for casting even more things is interesting too, I didn't count it since I was so sure that knight needed to attack... not so sure after reading your answers.

@ironclad8690 I know that we're a control deck, but it's not like we're an instant speed control deck, so playing something is the right play (even better, considering that burn usually has many of the red eidolons). What could be interesting is, as others have said, not attacking with knight, because knight activations is our real instant speed play.

In other words, what do you play around by not playing anything and what's the risk of following the lines that have been mentioned here (that involve casting half your hand)?

Oh I didn't mean in this scenario specifically, but vs burn in general. Without an active knight it's hard to determine if it's worth tapping down wasteland and non-basics, especially later in the game

[DoomRabbit]

How is cradle in the vial build? Without GSZ it seems like there's a lot less to do with the mana.

I'm eyeing my next purchases, and turns out the cards I need for the vial build (prelates + marsh flats) is roughly the same amount as a cradle.
So if cradle is a requirement in the vial build, then cradle makes sense (useful for both), if it's not, then I have to decide if I want to play with vials or GSZ ;)