[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[Mr.Dieth]

I won the 79 people tournament where Maëlig also top 4'd with this list and matchups.
I think the deck is very very strong. My list still needs minor tweaking though.

4x knight of the reliquary
4x stoneforge mystic
3x minesensor aven
3x noble hierarch
1x birds of paradise
3x qasali pridemage
1x terravore
1x eternal witness
1x Thrun, is trolling
1x scryb ranger
1x scavenging ooze

4x green sun’s zenith
4x swords to plowshares
4x mental misstep

1x batterskull
1x sword of feast and famine
1x umezawa’s jitte

4x windswept heath
2x verdant catacombs
3x savannah
2x horizon canopy
4x wasteland
2x forest
1x plains
1x karakas
1x maze of ith
1x gaea’s cradle
1x dryad arbor


SIDE:
2x path to exile
2x life from the loam
1x bojuka bog
1x treetop village
2x enlightened tutor
1x tormod’s crypt
2x choke
1x ghostly prison
1x phyrexian metamorph
1x qasali pridemage
1x gaddock teeg


matchups:

alluren: 2-0
mud: 2-0
maverick: 2-0
stoneblade: 2-0
stoneblade with red splash: 2-1
ID
ID

Top 8:
Player concedes
Maverick ( maëlig ): 2-1
Bugstill: 2-1

[r0ckstAr]

Hi !

I've been playing this deck lately (in EU), and I was wondering something : there seems to be a lot of hype around Hive Mind lately, and people are doing really good with it; are there any good SB cards to counter this deck ?

The only ones i could think of are more qasalis, canonist to slow them by one turn or including R and B bilands (which are really not satisfying)

[CorpT]

Hi !

I've been playing this deck lately (in EU), and I was wondering something : there seems to be a lot of hype around Hive Mind lately, and people are doing really good with it; are there any good SB cards to counter this deck ?

The only ones i could think of are more qasalis, canonist to slow them by one turn or including R and B bilands (which are really not satisfying)

Qasali does nothing against Hive Mind unless you've already got a Canonist in play - that's a pretty weak answer. Angel's Grace is the card that beats Hive Mind.

[Koby]

My sideboard against Hive Mind includes 8-9 cards:

2 Choke
2 Canonist
3 Angel's Grace
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Phyrexian Metamorph

Taking out:
some equipment
some SFM
4 StP
some of the 1-of green creatures (Thrun, Terravore etc)

[Mr.Dieth]

Is it worth to add 3 much needed slots from your side to 1 Deck, angel's grace isn't really helpfull against anything but hive mind. And to donate 3 slots to 1 deck, wich, here in the EU, doesn't see so much play, is pretty contraproductive I think.

I think you are better of accepting hive mind is a loss ( unless that player is stupid and he goes for the emrakul plan.

Just like, in the pre mental misstep era, goblins accepted tess was a loss and nonetheless, goblins Was a good deck.

[Koby]

It's more of a concession to my metagame. Two tournaments ago I played against Hive Mind 4 times in a 6 round tournament. :\

[CorpT]

Is it worth to add 3 much needed slots from your side to 1 Deck, angel's grace isn't really helpfull against anything but hive mind. And to donate 3 slots to 1 deck, wich, here in the EU, doesn't see so much play, is pretty contraproductive I think.

I think you are better of accepting hive mind is a loss ( unless that player is stupid and he goes for the emrakul plan.

Just like, in the pre mental misstep era, goblins accepted tess was a loss and nonetheless, goblins Was a good deck.

Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that everyone should have 3 Angel's Grace in their board for Hive Mind. But understand that Pridemage isn't going to get you there. If you have room, Canonist isn't terrible if it is useful against other decks for you. The other option is to go deeper blue for Daze which is very good against Hive Mind and useful against other decks as well. But it requires a fairly heavy Blue commit.

[Mr.Dieth]

Wasn't directed at you, I was more thinking out loud :D

@ rukcus: If hive mind is a big part of your meta ( I weep for you.. I really loathe that "deck" ) maybe maverick isn't such a good choice. Your better of playing a more bant-ish/maverick list, with daze/brainstorm's etc, then playing very situational/mediocre cards ( at best! )

My point is: don't try and make a stone jump through hoops, cause it won't. Just like maverick isn't going to beat hive mind ( unless dumb opponent ), or you get really lucky MMs his cantrips, wastes, and a lucky aven.

[Julian23]

(Good) Hive Mind lists also include Vendilion Clique these days. Angel's Grace isn't too hot against those...

[CorpT]

Chalice at 1 also sucks.

[Tao]

yadda yadda Thorn of Amethyst yadda

[Koby]

yadda yadda Thorn of Amethyst yadda

Part of the problem with Thorns is the 2 mana cost. It may not be fast enough to disrupt, and when it is fast enough, Hive Mind can power right through it with Sol-lands. I like the card personally, but can't objectively say it's effective when we want it to be. This card requires you to have the resources in order to kill them before they get enough mana to ignore Thorns.

This comes from my experiences with it in other decks (namely Elves). Even in that deck it wasn't fast enough to stop combo decks.

[Tao]

How is Thorn not fast enough to disrupt them? They can almost never kill on turn 2 and from then on they need 5 Mana to Combo so it buys quite lot of time, especially with Wastelands and because it slows their search down too.
And it is not that your choices do more. Canonist is just as slow (and does far less), and Angels Grace is only relevant in one Combo matchup.

[Koby]

Ad Nauseum, Hive Mind, and Painter all have the potential to kill you on turn 2. Their acceleration is enough to drive their fast kills. Thorns is better against slow combo (High Tide?) and control. The former doesn't care about Thorns as they can just bounce it prior to going off, and the latter is playing tons of removal for your clock.

I don't think that Thorn of Amethyst is the ideal sideboard card against combo. It would be better to expand into blue for countermagic and Clique than try to shore up the matchups by staying in GW alone.

[Fatal]

Good news for Maverick players ;) looks like decks works successful and starting to winning many big tournaments.

Also I have a nice info, in new developed format - Modern - almost all cards (or their format replacement) is legal :], so it would be strict Tier 1 deck :].

[Mr.Dieth]

Not sure if that's good news, at the moment in my meta, maverick is unstopable, I just steamroll whole tournaments. I am fearing the moment people start meta gaming against maverick.. Dunno what that will be 'cause perisch isn't really that great of an answer ( stoneforge, batterskull, go ) but maybe, because of maverick being great we are going to see te return of combo? ( my meta at the moment is mostly midrange decks ( junk, big zoo, maverick, bustill, bant ) )

[TossUsToLions]

Not sure if that's good news, at the moment in my meta, maverick is unstopable, I just steamroll whole tournaments. I am fearing the moment people start meta gaming against maverick.. Dunno what that will be 'cause perisch isn't really that great of an answer ( stoneforge, batterskull, go ) but maybe, because of maverick being great we are going to see te return of combo? ( my meta at the moment is mostly midrange decks ( junk, big zoo, maverick, bustill, bant ) )

Like you said, Maverick is tough to hate against. We attack from so many angles and GSZ allows us to switch our gameplan at any time. But I agree that its rising popularity may not be such a good thing, because now people will be ready for it. When I first started playing it in my meta, people were just shocked by an in-response-to-your-NO-I-will-cast-Aven-Mindscensor. Now, others in my meta are playing it, too, and cards like Mindscensor, Thrun, and Scryb Ranger aren't as much of a surprise for my opponent.

[Tao]

Ad Nauseum, Hive Mind, and Painter all have the potential to kill you on turn 2. Their acceleration is enough to drive their fast kills. Thorns is better against slow combo (High Tide?) and control. The former doesn't care about Thorns as they can just bounce it prior to going off, and the latter is playing tons of removal for your clock.

I don't think that Thorn of Amethyst is the ideal sideboard card against combo. It would be better to expand into blue for countermagic and Clique than try to shore up the matchups by staying in GW alone.

If blue would be better then why do you suggest Canonist, Angels Grace and E Tutor? That makes no sense at all.

Also Painter and Hive Mind ~never kill on turn 2 so your Thorn will land.

[Koby]

If blue would be better then why do you suggest Canonist, Angels Grace and E Tutor? That makes no sense at all.

Also Painter and Hive Mind ~never kill on turn 2 so your Thorn will land.

Turn 1 - Ancient Tomb, Grim Monolith
Turn 2 - Island, Hive Mind, Pact. gg

Turn 1 - Island, Ponder
Turn 2 - Show and Tell, Hive Mind, Pact. gg

Turn 1 - Ancient Tomb, Painter
Turn 2 - Ancient Tomb, Grindstone. gg

[Tao]

All these combos involve Ancient Tomb plus the 3 fitting Combo cards. That is why I said ~never.

[Koby]

They have upto 8 Sol-lands. 6 realistically, but still more than 4. The scenarios are closer to ~so often than ~never.

Point is, you need to answer their cards from turn 1. Without access to blue (or running the ultra-variant Mana Tithe), there are not many good ways to interact with such combos. Hence, putting blue and playing Bant is better in Combo metagames.

If, however, your metagame is Europe and everyone is running Mid-range, then by all means enjoy winning with Maverick. There is a good reason why Maverick is so underplayed in the United States metagame and that reason is because of the prevalence of Stoneblade and Combo.

[Tao]

First of all: none of that explains why you have the 2 Ethersworn Canonist in the Sideboard and the tutors to search for them. They also come down on turn 2 like Thorn but then... they do nothing. Why would you play Anti combo cards that are irrelevant against the two major Combo decks?

Second: the point that you need answers from turn 1 on is very wrong. They will combo on turn 2 in less than 10% of the games so you can just ignore that.

[Fatal]

If you use E.Tutor package and already runing Ethersworn Canonist and want to improve you MU with Hive Mind - I suggest Sundial of the Infinite as one off.

[Ajsmirnov]

I can see some Rock players side 1 Badlands and 4 ReB. Looks like a good idea. What you people think? Something like 1 Taiga 4 ReB with 1 Birds already in the maindeck.

[Maëlig]

If you use E.Tutor package and already runing Ethersworn Canonist and want to improve you MU with Hive Mind - I suggest Sundial of the Infinite as one off.
Hey, that's actually an interesting idea. Probably the best hate card at hand for this MU, because let's be honnest : arguing about canonist vs thorn is like comparing a midget to a dwarf.

And yeah, Hive Mind is probably the worst MU there is. 1 slot probably won't change that, and I'm not sure I'm prepared to bloat my SB with junk cards like angel's grace just for that.

[Mr.Dieth]

Hey, that's actually an interesting idea. Probably the best hate card at hand for this MU, because let's be honnest : arguing about canonist vs thorn is like comparing a midget to a dwarf.

And yeah, Hive Mind is probably the worst MU there is. 1 slot probably won't change that, and I'm not sure I'm prepared to bloat my SB with junk cards like angel's grace just for that.

QFT

I will just accept that hive mind is an ugly matchup and give the opponent a virtual bye, rather then putting borderline playable cards in my side. Instead I will improve all my other match up. So I make sure I win everything else.

[Tao]

It is not borderline playable. It is good. And not only vs. Hive Mind but vs. every non-elf combo deck.

[Bzka]

It is not borderline playable. It is good. And not only vs. Hive Mind but vs. every non-elf combo deck.

Well it doesnt stop Tendrils, Flash Freeze, BSZ and Grindstone, which are involved in 90% of every non-hivemind combo deck.

[Julian23]

Brain Freeze (not Flash Freeze, lol) and BSZ are completly irrelevant when discussing this deck in preparation for GP Amsterdam or any other rather large tournament.

Just evaluate your sb choices based on the two important combo matchups: Hive Mind and Storm Combo (ANT, TES, TNT). Painter is a quite different deck and is tackled by QPM, Krosan Grip and Mindcensor, while sufferring splash-damage from dedicated HiveMind+Storm choices.

The one question that stands: Which cards attack both Hive Mind AND Storm Combo while not taking too many sb slots?

[Tao]

The one question that stands: Which cards attack both Hive Mind AND Storm Combo while not taking too many sb slots?

I promise I am not trolling but if you ask like this ... Thorn of Amethyst?

[Julian23]

Does any of you guys have Hive Mind or any Storm combo deck on MODO so I can run GW against it?

[Hopo]

The one question that stands: Which cards attack both Hive Mind AND Storm Combo while not taking too many sb slots?

Leyline of Sanctity is better than most people think. It blanks Intuition and Vendillion Clique as well as discard, Tendrils and Grapeshot from storm combo. Leyline + any other hate card puts you in a really good position.

You most likely play Chokes in your sideboard. They help also. TES isn't that dependant on islands, though, but ANT suffers from it.

Thorn of Amethyst is superb against storm, but against Hivemind it isn't too gamebreaking unless you get it going and they need to cantrip into win. It is still one of the better options, though.

While Angel's Grace is super narrow, it can also be used in other matchups than Hivemind. It basically helps you race fast aggro and buys some time against randomness like Burn. That is if you really want to put it in your sb and think you have worse cards to take out.

[Wasteland]

While angel's grace is probably the best card against hive mind, i would not board it in in any other matchup...
Leyline of sanctity costs u 4 slots in the board, does not help against hive mind itself and is supercrap if you dont have it in play and play a zenith searching for Teeg...
I think Tao is right here, thorn of amethyst sounds like the best hate, cause u can use it in more then 1 matchup...
Personally i wont put any hate into the board against a deck like hive mind... Just dodge this one MU and win the GP just as the German Legacy champs^^

Greetz,
Marius Hausmann

[Hopo]

Leyline of Sanctity has an impact at least in the following matchups:
Hivemind + other Intuition decks
Storm
Painter
Burn
Gate and other monoB-variants
Jace control
Aluren

No card does anything to Hivemind itself so I wouldn't use that as an argument against leyline. Also, none of your sb cards are super if you don't have them ready and if you have a Gaddock out against storm, you couldn't be doing much better.

If GW deck traditionally struggles against combo decks and heavy board control, it would make sense to build the sideboard for a large tournament accordingly. My last iteration (I was expecting lots of Hivemind) was:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Choke
2 Angel's Grace
+ four other cards to slightly improve the aggro matchups.
So I had 2 cards solely for Hivemind but could board in all of the 11 above cards against it and majority of other combo decks. I was really wanting to handle the bad matchups, as my maindeck is quite well equipped to deal with non-combo decks. Above is one approach.

[Fatal]

Leyline of Sanctity is very poor from my testing - its good only vs discard and burn - which arent so bad MU.

Here is answers why its so bad:

Hive Mind - Intuition - same thing doing Aven Mind censor and can attack, and also can be cast on flash.
Storm - its terrible - Storm just cast Ad N grab 20 cards and find bounce for it - not worth - much better are Missteps.

Painter Stone - again terrible - any REB/Blast and you are milled - better removal/Qasali or even Krosans.
Burn - yes its helps a lot
Gate and other - yes also good - but probably SoLS is just better - it wins this card only stops few cards from winning until vindicate (SoLS also) but SoLS can be fetched from SFM, and can be played fast, its not dead slot in late.
Jace Control - really ??? Never heard of Deed ?
Aluren - again terrible - when aluren is online he just fetch harmonic sliver and blow up it - its works only vs discard on early game (most vs therapy) - much better here are Aven MindCensors.


Thorn of Ametyst are much better, but it has good impact of slowing down and also stops few things from winning instantly. Best anti-combo pack is Canonist/Gaddock/Thorn split + Angel's Grace if your meta is infected by Hive Mind.

[Maëlig]

If you're prepared to play SB hate specifically for this MU (which I'm still not sure about), wouldn't sundial be better than angel's grace, for taking only 1 slot and being re-usable?

[Julian23]

Sundial also gets around Vendilion Clique. Still, I don't like it.

[Hopo]

Leyline of Sanctity is very poor from my testing - its good only vs discard and burn - which arent so bad MU.

Here is answers why its so bad:

Hive Mind - Intuition - same thing doing Aven Mind censor and can attack, and also can be cast on flash.
Storm - its terrible - Storm just cast Ad N grab 20 cards and find bounce for it - not worth - much better are Missteps.

Painter Stone - again terrible - any REB/Blast and you are milled - better removal/Qasali or even Krosans.
Burn - yes its helps a lot
Gate and other - yes also good - but probably SoLS is just better - it wins this card only stops few cards from winning until vindicate (SoLS also) but SoLS can be fetched from SFM, and can be played fast, its not dead slot in late.
Jace Control - really ??? Never heard of Deed ?
Aluren - again terrible - when aluren is online he just fetch harmonic sliver and blow up it - its works only vs discard on early game (most vs therapy) - much better here are Aven MindCensors.



I mentioned some decks that Leyline will have some kind of an impact, with no emphasis on how much it will help you. I also stated that you need another hate card to make it really worthwhile. I even mentioned that this is just one approach to building a sideboard to deal with Hivemind and other combo decks. You reply by writing about the worst case scenarios where that one card does nothing, and your counter-examples are plain stupid as they are affected the exact same things why you dismiss Leyline. Like Pridemages which apparently are immune to blasts, Mindcensors which can be countered and don't come online until turn 2 earliest or Deed, which kills the whole deck anyway, unless you get it by that Pridemage of yours - the same one you just used in the Painter example. Storm can and will bounce any hate card so leyline is no worse than Teeg here. The point is that they need to find that bounce, and meanwhile all their discard is blanked, also. That gives you time to use Wasteland, cast another piece of hate or start clocking them. This is how you usually win those games: disrupt just enough to make your beaters get the time they need to kill.

I'm not into that kind of one-sided debate, as it leads nowhere. I wasn't even trying to tell anyone to play a certain sideboard, I just listed it with some explanations.

Regarding Aluren: they usually have Intuition, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize and Parasitic Strix/Fireslinger and you actually say that Leyline is terrible here? I'm fine with Aluren being so rare that this is kind of pointless discussion, but still you should take some time to actually play the matchup before stating such controversial things about it. If they waste a Recruiter just to get rid of your leyline, they most likely delayed themselves enough for you to do something relevant. The whole purpose of hate cards is to buy you some time to turn the tables, and leyline is as good in that as anything, starting from turn zero.

Gaddock Teeg used to be the bomb against any combo, but Hivemind sort of crapped on it.

[Hopo]

Leyline of Sanctity is very poor from my testing - its good only vs discard and burn - which arent so bad MU.

Here is answers why its so bad:

Hive Mind - Intuition - same thing doing Aven Mind censor and can attack, and also can be cast on flash.
Storm - its terrible - Storm just cast Ad N grab 20 cards and find bounce for it - not worth - much better are Missteps.

Painter Stone - again terrible - any REB/Blast and you are milled - better removal/Qasali or even Krosans.
Burn - yes its helps a lot
Gate and other - yes also good - but probably SoLS is just better - it wins this card only stops few cards from winning until vindicate (SoLS also) but SoLS can be fetched from SFM, and can be played fast, its not dead slot in late.
Jace Control - really ??? Never heard of Deed ?
Aluren - again terrible - when aluren is online he just fetch harmonic sliver and blow up it - its works only vs discard on early game (most vs therapy) - much better here are Aven MindCensors.



I mentioned some decks that Leyline will have some kind of an impact, with no emphasis on how much it will help you. I also stated that you need another hate card to make it really worthwhile. I even mentioned that this is just one approach to building a sideboard to deal with Hivemind and other combo decks. You reply by writing about the worst case scenarios where that one card does nothing, and your counter-examples are plain stupid as they are affected the exact same things why you dismiss Leyline. Like Pridemages which apparently are immune to blasts, Mindcensors which can be countered and don't come online until turn 2 earliest or Deed, which kills the whole deck anyway, unless you get it by that Pridemage of yours - the same one you just used in the Painter example. Storm can and will bounce any hate card so leyline is no worse than Teeg here. The point is that they need to find that bounce, and meanwhile all their discard is blanked, also. That gives you time to use Wasteland, cast another piece of hate or start clocking them. This is how you usually win those games: disrupt just enough to make your beaters get the time they need to kill.

I'm not into that kind of one-sided debate, as it leads nowhere. I wasn't even trying to tell anyone to play a certain sideboard, I just listed it with some explanations.

Regarding Aluren: they usually have Intuition, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize and Parasitic Strix/Fireslinger and you actually say that Leyline is terrible here? I'm fine with Aluren being so rare that this is kind of pointless discussion, but still you should take some time to actually play the matchup before stating such controversial things about it. If they waste a Recruiter just to get rid of your leyline, they most likely delayed themselves enough for you to do something relevant. The whole purpose of hate cards is to buy you some time to turn the tables, and leyline is as good in that as anything, starting from turn zero.

Gaddock Teeg used to be the bomb against any combo, but Hivemind sort of crapped on it.

[Asthereal]

Last lists I saw had no Maze of Ith in them.
Why? That card is really a gamewinner!
I also very much miss Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the lists around here.

I went top-8 with Maverick the 14th in Mol (Belgium).
Only loss was because of being mulligan-shy against the mirror.

My list was:
4 Noble Hierach
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Stoneforge Mystic /19

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Fire and Ice /20

3 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith /21

Sideboard:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Path to Exile
3 Krosan Grip
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Pithing Needle
1 Batterskull /15

Good were:
- Maze of Ith, saved me in a mirror match
- Elspeth, won me a mirror round and a control matchup
- Mental Misstep, won me a game against dredge I should have lost and was otherwise awesome
- Batterskull side instead of main, matchups that I needed them were very rare
- Tarmogoyfs, they were never bad

Bad were:
- Mana base, should be -1 Wildwood, -1 Canopy, +1 Savannah, +1 Forest
- Pithing Needles, didn't use them at all
- Forgot the possibility to put Terravore in my deck, didn't need it, but stupid that I forgot about it anyway
- Sylvan Library, sided them out almost every time

I didn't miss:
- Scryb Ranger, I never wanted to fetch it with Zenith, there were always better options
- Eternal Witness, Zenithing for Knight was always better
- Aven Mindcensor, didn't play combo and I expected to get more use from Elspeths (and I was right :P )
- Mother of Runes, never had a moment where I wanted to play her instead of my current options

I will tweak my list before the next tourney, but main ideas will stay the same.
What do you guys think?

[Tacosnape]

After a car ride discussing my GW Modern deck, I got inspired to play GW again in Legacy. Won Locals this week with the following list:

4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Mental Misstep
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Batterskull

4 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg

SB:
3 Angel's Grace
3 Null Rod
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Mindbreak Trap

Expected a lot of combo, hence the skewed sideboard, but most of the combo decks went 0-1 and I never saw them. Beat Merfolk 2-0, Elves 2-0, Hive Mind 2-1, A different Elves player 2-0, and Merfolk 2-1 in the finals. So, you know, not a whole lot of variety, but a good result nonetheless.

My quick hit thoughts:

1. Every time I start to think Mother of Runes is bad against combo, I'm quickly reminded otherwise when it saves me games from certain cards being removed (Ethersworn Canonist, in this tournament.) Also, Mother of Runes and Mental Misstep in the same deck makes you very resistant to removal.

2. I have absolutely no idea how people aren't running Dryad Arbors. Once in almost every match I led with a Zenith for Dryad Arbor just to mana ramp. It makes a huge difference getting that Knight down a turn earlier, get the Jitte active on turn three, etc. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that if you're running Green Sun's Zenith at all in Legacy and don't have at least one Dryad Arbor in your deck, you're making a mistake, regardless of all other factors. The ramping option is that stupidly good.

3. Angel's Grace and Surgical Extraction nicking Intuition are probably enough to get Hive Mind under control, although my maindeck is so bad I actually boarded in Null Rod and drew a Force by attempting to Null Rod on a Grim Monolith one game. And having Oblivion Ring doesn't hurt your otherwise already amazing chances to survive Emrakul, either. I'm pretty sure against a competent player you can't very often win game 1 against Hive Mind unless they don't know what you're playing or just can't draw Hive Mind and have to go for Emrakul. Or if they keep a cantrip-heavy hand and you're loaded up on Mental Missteps. So yeah, as long as this deck is a threat, and I believe it still is, Angel's Grace.

4. Mental Misstep is amazing in this deck. Maindeck four.

[Koby]

Thanks for your thought TacoSnape! I've been thinking about increasing the MM count to 4 to deal with all the Elves combo running around (which is the correct metagame call in a format without Firespout and very few Deeds). Having an absolute "NO!" to Glimpse is so vital in not losing to elves that it's worth it.

[CorpT]

3rd on Missteps. I've been running them in just about everything now. Until people start diversifying away from Swords, protecting creatures like Knight is worth it alone. Let alone the added benefits of hitting random Brainstorms when they're out of cards.

[Tacosnape]

I was also surprised how easy Elves was. Stopping Glimpse was nice. Stopping Heritage Druid saved me more, oddly.

Green Sun's Zenith into Dryad Arbor helped me a ton in this matchup, also. The one game I didn't have Mental Misstep I led with Savannah, GSZ into Arbor, turn two Canopy, STP a Fyndhorn, Stoneforge, turn three Wasteland Jitte Equip Swing. Being able to get that Jitte online one turn earlier is stupidly crucial. I used to do this with Mox Diamond, then I learned that most of the time I'd rather just have GSZ/Dryad Arbor, because at least neither of those are ever completely useless topdecks and they don't provide card disadvantage for their services.

Also, a second note on Mental Misstep? Two of my five games against Merfolk were literally won because and only because I stuck a Mother of Runes on turn one and had Mental Misstep waiting for Merfolk's other Mental Misstep. So hitting Misstep with Misstep saved me there.

[apprentice]

Is it really needed to run 4 wastelands? or is 3 enough?

[Julian23]

@Asthereal:
It's strange that you mention you hardly ever wanted Batterskull (implying you played no aggro) nor Library (implying nor Control, but also huge in the mirror). Also, Aven Mindcensor+Mother of Runes is close to being the single game winning combo in the mirror, that you have. I can hardly see people dropping Mindcensor, sorry.

[TossUsToLions]

@Asthereal: You sided out Library every time? Was there a reason for this?
Also, what do you not like about Ranger? She is just too good to not keep a single spot for her.
And I would definitely reconsider cutting E. Witness. I'm not even kidding, every single time that I side her out, I lost that game in a way which I would've won if she was in there. It's so weird, and I do not learn my lesson. I always think, "well, I think I can win this matchup without her, I'll be fine." Then g2 comes around and I get to a spot where I need her to win the game. I swear that this happens every time I side her out, so I'm warning everyone, do not side out the Witness!!!
But seriously, her ability to be a tutorable Regrowth to get back a Swords, SFM, or Equipment is just too good.

@apprentice: it depends how many lands you feel like running. I am only running 21 (Arbor included), but I only play 3 Wastes and no Mazes. If you wanna play 22 total land, then I would add the 4th Waste or a singleton Maze of Ith.

[apprentice]

@tossUsToLions: currently im running 22 lands(including arbor), 3 wastes and 1 maze.

[Asthereal]

@Witness: I had Elspeth winning me so many games that I never really cared for retrieving stuff. I was very surprised about the sheer power of this deck supported by that planeswalking miracle. :)
The Witness does add options, so I will reconsider it and test it in a Sylvan Library spot.

@Ranger: I think it's a good card when you can cast it utilizing its flash to untap a Knight to block and kill, or to flash her in front of a Clique or so. But the flash surprise goes out the window if you have to Zenith for it. And let's face it: you can never count on drawing a one-off when you need it. That's hwy we tutor for one-offs in the first place. Scryb Ranger on sorcery speed takes away its biggest advantage and so I decided against it for the tournament, and I never missed it.

@Siding out Library, siding in Batterskull:
I had these matchups:
- Merfolk 2-0
- NOPRO UGr 2-0 (he didn't find Natural Order)
- Maverick (with Missteps, Mindcensor, no MoR) 0-2 (stupid me got myself mana-screwed twice)
- Landstill/Caw Blade 2-1
- Dredge Ichorid 2-0 (Misstep rules!)
- Bant Aggro (blue for Missteps, Brainstorm and Rhox War Monk) 2-0 (Go go Elspeth!)
- Tempo Threshold UGB ID
Top-8 splitted the prizes.

The tournament had 79 participants and I must admit that the other two Maverick decks in the top-8 had no Elspeth and did play Aven Mindcensors, Eternal Witness and Scryb Ranger.

In which of these matches do I desperately want a Batterskull over a Sword?
I think I didn't even side it in against Merfolk. Only against Caw Blade and Maverick/Bant I sided it in for the SoFire&Ice. It did feel good to side in Batterskull in favor of the less relevant Sword though.
I do feel that Batterskull doesn't fit the strategy of this deck well: you cannot properly defend your Mystic, so you often have to hardcast the thing. Next to this, the deck wants to attack for as much as possible with big dudes, and Swords just fit that idea better.

In none of my matches did I need a Witness at any point. Against Caw Blade it would have been okay, but I lost the game on Humility, which stops my Witness anyway. :-P

Has anyone else tried Elspeth already, either main or side?

[Koby]

I tried Elspeth 2x maindeck, then it became 1x main, then 1x side, then cut completely.

There are not enough games where I wanted to cast Elspeth. There are creatures that work way better than her which you can tutor with GSZ. I like Thrun alot for that reason.

[Julian23]

I have to backup ruckus on this, Thrun is just insane in this deck. In my experience, he just enters the game, grabs an equipment and just wins you the game. Having one in the maindeck improves your control matchup by such a s*-ton, it's not even funny. The only matchup you don't really wanna have him is against combo but same goes for Elspeth. Still, I got both 1 (additional) Thrun and 1 Elspeth in the sb, although Thrun's spot there is way more set in stone.

[Fatal]

I wrote a little list with comments about Modern version of Maverick, you can found it here:http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21856-GWu-Maverick&p=578313#post578313

[C Rayz Walz]

I played Hive Mind for a while and I ran 6 sol ring lands. The deck does get turn 2 win more than you would think. You can also go turn 1 Grim monolith and next turn blue source and cast Hive Mind and get a turn 2 win that way, so the deck has a couple of ways of pulling off a turn 2 win. I don't know if you have ever played this deck but like I said before it does get the turn 2 more often than would think.

[BantFTW]

What this deck does against control :O?

[Julian23]

Win.



/edit: ok, let me actually elaborate on at least which cards create a quite good control matchup: Aven Mindcensor, Thrun, SFM, Wastelands+Knight, Elspeth (after boarding, if you have her) and MVP Sylvan Library. Also, Mother of Runes is ok against board-control.

[Koby]

What this deck does against control :O?

It does rather win, as Julian has stated.
It does by it's obscene threat density, Wasteland plan, and powerful tutor engine (KotR, SFM, and GSZ - aka triple threat). Most control decks aren't capable of keeping up with this deck.

BUGstill and Stoneblade with Standstill can keep up, however - these are the hardest matchups outside of outright combo decks.

[bob2008]

I won a 53 player event this weekend.
Got a U-Sea for my efforts.
Played this List:

4 Savannah
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Gaeas Cradle
1 Maze of Ith

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Quasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

4 Green Suns Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Umezawas Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

SB.

2 Choke
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Krosan Grip
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
1 Runed Halo
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormonds Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog



I played against
Reanimator 2:0
NO Rug 2:1
Hive Mind 2:0 (thanks to MD Gaddock)
CB Bant 2:0
UB Folk 2:0
UW Stoneblade - draw

It felt like the Cradle was not needed – will change it back to Wasteland No.4.
I highly recommend the creature toolbox in the MD. It saved my ass against Reanimator and Hive Mind.

UW-Stoneblade seems to be a difficult MU – I will try to squeeze one additional Thrun in the SB.
I am uncertain about the 3rd equipment slot – somehow I never need the sword of X/Y. Maybe It can be changed with a MD Elspeth to improve the Controll MU?

Best regards,

bob

[CorpT]

So why is this deck underperforming at SCG Open events? From what I can tell, it is a very powerful deck with decent MUs across the board. And yet you rarely see it in the Top16 at the SCG events? Is it just not being run enough?

[Artlee]

So why is this deck underperforming at SCG Open events? From what I can tell, it is a very powerful deck with decent MUs across the board. And yet you rarely see it in the Top16 at the SCG events? Is it just not being run enough?

Kyle Miller just finished 7th in SCG Richmond. They just wont accept it as Maverick, but call it G/W Aggro.

[CorpT]

Kyle Miller just finished 7th in SCG Richmond. They just wont accept it as Maverick, but call it G/W Aggro.

1 Total in the last 2 Top 16s, vs 6 for NO RUG in one event? 4 UW Stoneblade in Boston as well.

[maurobad2k4]

1 Total in the last 2 Top 16s, vs 6 for NO RUG in one event? 4 UW Stoneblade in Boston as well.

I believe the Americans dont play/like this deck so much. Although here in Brazil this deck is heavily played with different builds and it's always getting great results.

[Shimi]

I believe the Americans dont play/like this deck so much. Although here in Brazil this deck is heavily played with different builds and it's always getting great results.

The deck is very good(although I prefer GW Bombs Dump).. the question is that Americans trust too much in SCG/Pros reviews and they usually don't like playing a non-blue deck, but here in brazil where Merfolks/Goblins/Zoo are very present mid-range like GW and BGW are both a solid choice.

[oRen]

Hopefully Marius Hausmann who recently won the Legacy side event at the German Nationals will take his chance and go to the next (?) SCG Invitational and own those wannabes. I am pretty sure GW in the hands of a really good players could do so freaking well in metagame existing there currently ...

This is the list I am tooling around with:

// Lands
2 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
2 [R] Savannah
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [LG] Karakas
3 [TE] Wasteland
2 [NPH] Plains (1)
2 [NPH] Forest (1)
1 [MM] Tower of the Magistrate
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor

// Creatures
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [TSP] Mangara of Corondor
1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
3 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
1 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [OD] Terravore

// Spells
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [V10] AEther Vial
4 [DDF] Swords to Plowshares
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [NPH] Batterskull
2 [LG] Sylvan Library

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [FNM] Wing Shards
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 [TE] Choke
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll

One of the hardest matchups was UR SneakShow for me. Everything else I came across was ok.
I really dunno what to do as tariff seems not to be worth the slots because it is only good vs Show and Tell.

[Ajsmirnov]

I think Gaea's Cradle is great. And I rly should find place for Eternal Witness and maybe Qasali #2. Just don't know how to do it without cutting Mental Misstep.

My current list:
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
22

3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thrun the Last Troll
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Sylvan Library
3 Mental Misstep
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
60

1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Choke
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Krosan Grip
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Thrun the Last Troll
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Red Elemental Blast
15

[Julian23]

Hopefully Marius Hausmann who recently won the Legacy side event at the German Nationals will take his chance and go to the next (?) SCG Invitational and own those wannabes.

Sadly, he's not gonna go.

[testing32]

Sadly, he's not gonna go.

I'll be going and, currently for the legacy portion, I would run my list from 2 weeks ago with a few changes.

Edit: and for the record I'm thrilled that we hate playing Maverick over here in the US. It's great against the meta and no one is playing hate for it.

[Asthereal]

That's the fun part about the deck:
You can't really play hate against it. It's just big fat creatures beating your ass.
Maybe Perish helps, but then again normally you just play one fattie at the time anyway.

If you want hate against GW creatures, you should consider playing ANT or Hive Mind. :-P

[Artlee]

I see some lists with Life from the Loam in the sideboard. What decks do you board it in against?

[Mr.Dieth]

Control / other midrange decks / slow combo ( like alluren )

It wins games :) especially against control.

[Artlee]

I'm still not sure. Do you then go nuts with wasteland? Or is it just good to have more mana?

[Fatal]

Mostly Wastelock + Recurring Dryad Arbor with Equips, also recurring Canopy to have CA. It's also nice vs some MU which attack your mana base for example aggro loam, works also nice vs Junks to bring back lands after Hymn to Tourach..

[Koby]

I am debating internally about the merits of adding Red Elemental Blast to the sideboard. This could be achieved by cutting 1 basic Forest for a Taiga. This would also improve some of the combo matchups as well as having a very good answer for Jace TMS.

Any thoughts from more seasoned players about such a strategy?

[Julian23]

It's funny because I had the exact same thought some days ago. However, I can't really tell if the stretch in the manabase would be worth the merits of doing so. What's most important to me: what would you cut from the sb? Dedicated blue hate like Choke? - I don't like that, especially since Choke is way superior against Control. Or storm/combo hate like Cannonist/Thorn? Form my perspective one would have to actually cut non-control, con-combo sb cards to gain an additional edge in those matchups...REB/Pyroblast alone isn't gonna cut it, I believe.

[TossUsToLions]

It's funny because I had the exact same thought some days ago. However, I can't really tell if the stretch in the manabase would be worth the merits of doing so. What's most important to me: what would you cut from the sb? Dedicated blue hate like Choke? - I don't like that, especially since Choke is way superior against Control. Or storm/combo hate like Cannonist/Thorn? Form my perspective one would have to actually cut non-control, con-combo sb cards to gain an additional edge in those matchups...REB/Pyroblast alone isn't gonna cut it, I believe.

Haha, I was thinking the exact same thing at work a few days ago. REB would be so nice in the board, and we could easily achieve this with only adding one dual. But I love Choke, and adding REB to the board would most likely mean cutting Choke. Is it worth it? I don't think it is in a Stoneblade meta.

But I may test this idea shortly. I am about to move to a new (and unknown) meta for a while, and I have been thinking about trying this slight red splash.

[Koby]

Maybe a better question altogether:

Would splashing more red into the deck give us similar tools like Natural Order :r::u::g: gained when it dropped :w:?

(I advocate a consideration of :w::g:/:r:, which gives us Burning-Tree Shaman, Bloodbraid Elf, and Ajani Vengeant as a contenders too.)

[Ajsmirnov]

Burning-Tree Shaman can kill us faster, then it kills our opponent. )

I play 4 sb ReB for about 6-7 days already and they are ok.

Current SB:
4 Red elemental blast
2 Krosan Grip
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg/ Elspeth(depends on meta)

to run ReB's I cut 2 Canonists, second Thrun(1 in md), and Sword of Light and Shadow.

[_erbs_]

If you guys are contemplating on adding red on the SB, if in some way wild nacatl would somehow fit in the creature base it would be wonderful i think...

By the way how are you guys matching up against fast zoo decks.., based on my testing im its a bad matchup.. as they are very quick in dealing damage and dropping creatures or burning your creatures. I find it had hard to stabilize against them.

[bob2008]

By the way how are you guys matching up against fast zoo decks.., based on my testing im its a bad matchup.. as they are very quick in dealing damage and dropping creatures or burning your creatures. I find it had hard to stabilize against them.

I feel the same about fast Zoo, we playtested 6 matches last night and I could just win a single game. Jitte felt too slow and I never got a mother online... Afterwards I considered putting Goyf back into the deck, but I think this needs more testing.

I have a few questions according the Sideboard strategies.

I have another question about Sword of Light and Shadow - I have seen it in many Sideboards, and I am still not sure which MU benefits from bringing it in.

And how about Wing Shards - In what MU do you bring them in?

best regards,

bob

[bob2008]

By the way how are you guys matching up against fast zoo decks.., based on my testing im its a bad matchup.. as they are very quick in dealing damage and dropping creatures or burning your creatures. I find it had hard to stabilize against them.

I feel the same about fast Zoo, we playtested 6 matches last night and I could just win a single game. Jitte felt too slow and I never got a mother online... Afterwards I considered putting Goyf back into the deck, but I think this needs more testing.

I have a few questions according the Sideboard strategies.

I have another question about Sword of Light and Shadow - I have seen it in many Sideboards, and I am still not sure which MU benefits from bringing it in.

And how about Wing Shards - In what MU do you bring them in?

best regards,

bob

[publius_aelius]

I play GBW junk and simply can not win this MU. Every card maverick has is a threat, even Noble Hierarch.

If he starts with Mother, I need to kill it outright.
If he starts with Hierarch, I can expect him to land a T2 KotR.
If he plays a Library, I need to destroy it imidiately.
If he's untapped with 3 mana open, I can't fetch casually.

My threats are not so threatining. I had an opening like T1 Swamp, mox, hymn, and Maverick dudes recuperated very fast.

GW Maverick rox.


Although, I think that Maverick is an underdog vs firespout decks.

[Fatal]

SoLS is useful in many MUs:
B/W Discard, Any controls, Any heavy removal decks, Mirrors, Zoo, its not useful only vs Combo/Tribals. Recurring Creatures is the key why this Sword is so good, also protection from B/W is very good in many MU since 90% removal is B or W.

Wing Shards is as X-1 removal which can touch Progenitus/protected dudes useful vs Middle-Range, all NO decks, and every deck which use Hydra, it can also took off Ecthion Champion and it's useful vs Goblins.

[Fatal]

SoLS is useful in many MUs:
B/W Discard, Any controls, Any heavy removal decks, Mirrors, Zoo, its not useful only vs Combo/Tribals. Recurring Creatures is the key why this Sword is so good, also protection from B/W is very good in many MU since 90% removal is B or W.

Wing Shards is as X-1 removal which can touch Progenitus/protected dudes useful vs Middle-Range, all NO decks, and every deck which use Hydra, it can also took off Ecthion Champion and it's useful vs Goblins.

[mordraid]

By the way how are you guys matching up against fast zoo decks.., based on my testing im its a bad matchup.. as they are very quick in dealing damage and dropping creatures or burning your creatures. I find it had hard to stabilize against them.

I think we could sideboard skinshifter. 1 copy don't hurt that much, he tutorable and vs zoo he's a really good blocker at 0/8 that's almost impossible to bolt. He can also fly if needed.

What you guys think of him ?

[CorpT]

I think we could sideboard skinshifter. 1 copy don't hurt that much, he tutorable and vs zoo he's a really good blocker at 0/8 that's almost impossible to bolt. He can also fly if needed.

What you guys think of him ?

You: Activate Skinshifter making him a 0/8.
Me: In response, bolt him.
You: Ok :(

Why are you playing a card that "don't (sic) hurt that much" when you could be playing a card that helps you?

[TossUsToLions]

Regarding the quick Zoo matchup:
Get out Thrun. Seriously, they have no answers at all for him, or any creatures that size, especially with the newer small zoo lists that don't play Knights. If you resolve him (the 4 GSZ help here), you usually win. Also, hardcasting Batterskull beecomes an option if they use removal on your SFM. I usually go for Batterskull before I go for Jitte with Stoneforge because Jitte needs a creature to do anything, which is frequently a problem against them.
Scavenging Ooze is pretty good against them, too.

Mental Misstep is good in this matchup if you feel like running them, too.

My SB'ing plan against small (Knight-less) Zoo is:
-1 Gaddock Teeg
-3 Aven Mindscensor
+2 Path to Exile
+2 Dueling Grounds

[Julian23]

Just to let you guys know, not only did GW Maverick take down the German Legacy Champs last week but also the Swiss Legacy Champs! Hooray! :D

[CorpT]

Just to let you guys know, not only did GW Maverick take down the German Legacy Champs last week but also the Swiss Legacy Champs! Hooray! :D

Hey Julian,

You're the one who keeps beating up my Big Zoo list, eh? ;)

Why the Tropical in your list?

[_erbs_]

Regarding the quick Zoo matchup:
Get out Thrun. Seriously, they have no answers at all for him, or any creatures that size, especially with the newer small zoo lists that don't play Knights. If you resolve him (the 4 GSZ help here), you usually win. Also, hardcasting Batterskull beecomes an option if they use removal on your SFM. I usually go for Batterskull before I go for Jitte with Stoneforge because Jitte needs a creature to do anything, which is frequently a problem against them.
Scavenging Ooze is pretty good against them, too.

Mental Misstep is good in this matchup if you feel like running them, too.

My SB'ing plan against small (Knight-less) Zoo is:
-1 Gaddock Teeg
-3 Aven Mindscensor
+2 Path to Exile
+2 Dueling Grounds

That would be the general plan but before you could ramp your mana to 4 your life is around 6-7 thrun., several swings and a bolt and its gg already.., and no matter how you put it the chances of you developing 5 mana or top decking your single ton thrun main is quit long.. if you are able to survive the early turns then your on your way to victory against small zoo.

@Mental Misstep
Yes it really helps a ton in this matchup but besides small zoo and the following (mirror, maybe bant, white based deck which only relies on STP for removal like stoneblade, etc and combo) i feel its impact seems weak. Against control decks it could only stop there cantrips, sdt, ponder, pierce or snare, etc. but it will not save you from a firespout, deed or engineered explosives or other sweepers.

Im not saying that MM is bad but i feel its use kinda limited and doesn't have a big impact against the decks which have mav has a bad matchup. (expect for maybe combo)

And if you make MM part of the main deck, normally your mid game would weaken to some extent as the walkers for sure will be removed so you you could fit in the 4 mm.

[Ajsmirnov]

Just to let you guys know, not only did GW Maverick take down the German Legacy Champs last week but also the Swiss Legacy Champs! Hooray! :D

Can you please give link to Swiss top8 decklists? Very interesting.

[mordraid]

Hi have a tounament tomorrow morning and i haven't been able to get my hands on mother of runes. Should i replace them with (1) mental misstep ?, (2) some other utility creatures like pridemage, scryb ranger and witness or (3) add a splash of black and put some dark confidant ?

For some reasons, i prefer to add more utility creatures to maintain a more stable manabase, and on the other hand, i want to put bob for some good card advantage.

What you guys think of the situation ?

Of course if i can find some people that want to trade or sell mother of runes before the tournament it'll b great but i want to be prepared if it doesn't happens.

[Tao]

Clearly Mental Missteps for curve reasons. Either 4 Missteps or 3 Missteps and 1 Witness if you don't play her yet. Scryb Ranger loses a lot of his power without Mother of Runes to combo.

[Asthereal]

I don't even play Mother of Runes.
She seems fair, but doesn't stop many dangerous things.
If people Plow your Knight, just Zenith for a new one.
If you cannot attack without protection from whatever, just attach an equipment.
If Mother has summoning sickness, she doesn't do anything at all.
Not my personal favo. :-P

Misstep does add things: slowing down your opponent helps a lot in general. Next to that it helps defeating Tendrils Combo, it counters discard outlets from Dredge, and it counters Brainstorms that would otherwise help your opponent to better cards in hand. I like it a lot.
Another card you might want to consider is Elspeth. She helps smashing through strong defenses, she makes the mirror more favorable and she just kills control decks. :-)

[mordraid]

Ok, here's my list for tomorrow tournament. Feel free to make comments. I'm still not sure if i'll add black for confidant and some disruption.

Maindeck:

4x swords to plowshares
1x sword of fire and ice
1x umezawa jitte
1x batterskull
1x sword of light and shadow
4x green sun's zenith

2x mirran crusader
4x green sun's zenith
1x scavenging ooze
1x gaddock teeg
1x thrun, the last throll
2x elspeth, knight errant
3x qasali pridemage
4x noble hierarch
4x knight of the reliquary
3x mental misstep
4x stoneforge mystic

1x maze of ith
1x dryad arbor
4x savannah
4x windwsept heath
3x horizon canopy
3x forest
2x plains
1x misty rainforest
4x wasteland


Sideboard:

2x krosan grip
2x oblivion ring
3x choke
2x enlightened tutor
3x pithing needle
1x path to exile
2x ghostly prison

[_erbs_]

@mordraid
hello you may want to consider the following:
-1 sofi
-1 elspeth
-1 forest
-1 plains
-1 gaddock
-1 horizon canopy

+1 karakas
+1 mm
+1 garruk primal hunter
+1 eternal witness
+1 scryb ranger
+1 tropical island

SB
2x krosan grip => i don't use this anymore +1gaddock teeg
2x oblivion ring => what MUs would want to use this ? try using beast within
3x choke -1 choke +1thrun the last troll
2x enlightened tutor
3x pithing needle => im guessing this is for hivemind my combo hate is thorn of amethyst
1x path to exile
2x ghostly prison => im guessing its for aggro or ichorid.., mm helps that department already but if ichorid is common in your place this would be nice.

then for the last spot meta call

my reasons
- having 3 mm feels short mm is strong early on and not drawing them early feels like mm is a waste in the main deck.
- gaddock feels more of a SB card rather main for me.
- if you have garruk primal hunter switch one for eslpeth you wouldn't regret it.
- ranger helps in fixing mana and adds a vigilance creature when needed

[BlueNevus]

I don't even play Mother of Runes.
She seems fair, but doesn't stop many dangerous things.
If people Plow your Knight, just Zenith for a new one.
If you cannot attack without protection from whatever, just attach an equipment.
If Mother has summoning sickness, she doesn't do anything at all.
Not my personal favo. :-P

If you had Mother out, you could protect your 1st knight and Zenith for a 2nd and have both of them protected. Seems good...

Giving up your Knight to Plowshares just because you can Zenith for another will lose you so many games. Zenith for Knight costs 4, uses up a precious card, and slows you down by a crucial turn where having Mother gives you an un-targetable or unblockable Knight for the win. You seem to assume that it's really easy to find and attach equipment, but it is mana-intensive and unreliable if they counter your Mystic. Against Zoo/heavy removal, good luck having something to equip your Swords to.

I plan on building around Mother/KOTR/Scryb with Mental Misstep protection. Mother is just so versatile. She's one of the best cards in the deck along with KOTR, Zenith, & Mystic, but she desperately needs protection from MM and 1cc removal (only for the first turn), thus, 4 x Misstep.

I love T3/4 Elspeth in this deck. I think 2 is the right number. It's too bad that this deck doesn't filter through a lot of cards (without Sylvan Library, which is hard to find without aforementioned filtering), because I always want to cast her, but I don't think you can play 3/4.

[mordraid]

@mordraid
hello you may want to consider the following:
-1 sofi
-1 elspeth
-1 forest
-1 plains
-1 gaddock
-1 horizon canopy

+1 karakas
+1 mm
+1 garruk primal hunter
+1 eternal witness
+1 scryb ranger
+1 tropical island

SB
2x krosan grip => i don't use this anymore +1gaddock teeg
2x oblivion ring => what MUs would want to use this ? try using beast within
3x choke -1 choke +1thrun the last troll
2x enlightened tutor
3x pithing needle => im guessing this is for hivemind my combo hate is thorn of amethyst
1x path to exile
2x ghostly prison => im guessing its for aggro or ichorid.., mm helps that department already but if ichorid is common in your place this would be nice.

then for the last spot meta call

my reasons
- having 3 mm feels short mm is strong early on and not drawing them early feels like mm is a waste in the main deck.
- gaddock feels more of a SB card rather main for me.
- if you have garruk primal hunter switch one for eslpeth you wouldn't regret it.
- ranger helps in fixing mana and adds a vigilance creature when needed

You are removing 1 lands from my total, so i guess you are playing 21 ? isn't that a bit short ? I don't own any tropical or karakas so i guess i'l have to pass on those two.

[TossUsToLions]

@mordraid
hello you may want to consider the following:
-1 sofi
-1 elspeth
-1 forest
-1 plains
-1 gaddock
-1 horizon canopy

+1 karakas
+1 mm
+1 garruk primal hunter
+1 eternal witness
+1 scryb ranger
+1 tropical island



Why add Tropical Island? He is not playing Rhox War Monk or Rafiq, the Trop would just be a wastable forest. Scryb Ranger, like previously stated, may not be needed since he is not running Mother of Runes. Elsepth is really good in this deck, if you run planeswalkers, run her. And Teeg is really good maindeck right now, with all the NO Rug and Stoneblade decks running around.

[mordraid]

Why add Tropical Island? He is not playing Rhox War Monk or Rafiq, the Trop would just be a wastable forest. Scryb Ranger, like previously stated, may not be needed since he is not running Mother of Runes. Elsepth is really good in this deck, if you run planeswalkers, run her. And Teeg is really good maindeck right now, with all the NO Rug and Stoneblade decks running around.

so i guess my list isn't that bad ? what would you cut to add the 4 misstep ? or do i really need 4 ?

[TossUsToLions]

so i guess my list isn't that bad ? what would you cut to add the 4 misstep ? or do i really need 4 ?

I like your list a lot, actually. I would cut one of the equipment (you don't need four) for a fourth Misstep. I personally would make some changes in your board, though. Dueling Grounds just seems to be a better version of Ghostly Prison that is in colors for us. If you are running E.Tutor, you need some more targets. I would run a singleton Dueling Grounds, some number of Chokes, a Phyrexian Metamorph, a Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker, a Wheel of Sun and Moon (or some other artifact GY hate), an Ethersworn Canonist/Thorn of Amethyst, Serenity/Null Rod, etc. I also like a couple of Path to Exiles in the board.

[r0ckstAr]

I do not see how you can not run at least 3 mindcensors in today's meta : it messes up with the opponent's stoneforge (guess they won't be getting that batterskull after all), NO (nope, no progenitus...) and it even slows down hive mind because they can't use Intuition as a tutor for combo parts.
And that's not talking about all the random cards it can mess, and how, supported with 1-2 waste, it can negate the effect of the opponents fetch and cause a mana death/color death.

Worst case scenario : they know they can't leave it on the board, so it will bait their removal and your knight/sword-bearer will be free to beat them down

Apart from that, and what TossUsToLions just pointed out, I think your list is a good one. I've always like Elspeth in this deck.

Edit : Oh and you should definitely try to fit a Cradle (with batterskull and GSZ, it comes in handy) and a Karakas in your manabase

[mordraid]

What should i cut to fit 3 mindsensor?

[mordraid]

Here's a quick report on yesterday's tournament.

It was a small local tourney with about 40 people participating, so only 5 rounds were played before top8. I managed to make top 8 but i don't know how. Really, i faced probably the toughest matchups i could.

Match #1 : Sneak and show

game 1:
i didn't have time to play. He had to play first and put a land, lotus petal, lotus petal. He cast show and tell and emrakul !

Game 2 :
nothing much interesting in the first 3 turns. He manage to put a sneak attack in play. Then i tutored for a pithing needle and the turn after i zenith for gaddock teeg and he scoops.

Game 3:
he had to play first but he mulligan to 6 and i guess his hand wasn't that great that time either. I play a hierarch and i zenith for a gaddock teeg on turn 2. He couldn't recover and i beat him slowly to death with critters.

Hard matchup but i got it.

(1-0)

match #2: high tide

Game 1: In the first few turns i set up my borad and on turn 3 i zenith for a gaddock teeg but he gets force of will. He combo next turn.

Game 2: I guess he had a bad draw. I misstep his first brainstorm and i managed to race him to death with a 2nd turn reliquary and 3rd turn thrun the last troll. (i was lucky there)

Game 3: he get to play island-go, i enlightened tutor end of turn for a canonist. 2nd turn canonist don't get countered. I then play gaddock teeg on 3rd turn and he scoops !

(2-0)

match #3: high tide (doh !)

game 1: really couln't do anything, i misstep his fisrt high tide and he did the same. He combo me out on turn 3.

Game 2: this one was all mine. I managed to put caninist 2nd turn, gaddock teeg on 3rd and choke on 4th turn. He died slowly to canonist and teeg.

Game 3: i had a bad hand and mulligan to 6. in my hand i had only two wasteland but decided to keep it anyway. on my draw i get a canopy and solved my problems. The match was hard fought but again canonist and teeg served we well and i get the win !!

- unbelieveable, i get to play 3 combo deck in the first 3 games and i win them all !!!

(3-0)

Match #4 (elves !) damn those combo

Game 1: I couldn't do anything and died on turn 3.

Game 2: I couldn't do anything and died on turn 3 !!!

(this matchup is very hard)

(3-1)

Match #5: Burn

Game 1: nothing interesting i was slowly burning until i get a jitte in with a big 5/5 knight. He tried to burn my knight but forgot that i had a fetch land in play. I get my knight to 6/6 and survived.

Game 2: about the same as game 1. Jitte saved me and my creatures were larger than his.

(4-1)

Top 8:

I get to play the most rogue deck of the field. a cleric deck based on master apothecary, shaman en kor, mother of runes, daru spiritualist and starlit sanctum.

I lost the first game i played. Second game was really close but elspeth saved me with flying knight. I lost game 3 because he managed to combo me out on infinite lifes with shaman en kor daru spiritualist and starlit sanctum. seriously, this deck was very hard to beat.

Overall i felt happy with the deck. my sideboard was really spot on and saved my day. The only cards that i didn't used were the krosan grips. I expected some hive minds but there was none.

Stars of the day:

gaddock teeg maindeck
ethersworn canonist ( i faed too many combo !)
green sun's zenith (this card is some serious cardboard !)
elspeth knight errant (never made tokens but flying knight or batterskull are alway game winning)

[supa_tim]

@mordraid
Wow, you played combo in every match...

I know this will be hard to answer considering what you played against, but did you ever miss Mother of Runes? She might have helped against Life.dec (your top8 opponent) to let your big dudes go through his cleric wall. She also would have helped against burn and take some pressure off of jitte.

Or did you feel the deck worked well without her?

Is there a consensus about Phyrexian Revoker being somewhere in the 75? Does he make the cut at all?

[mordraid]

didn't miss mother of runes at all. Vs life.dec he probably would have swords or path to exile it. and versus burn he had so many burn spells that she wouldn't have survive her summoning sickness.

The revoker is weaker than pithing needle in matchups where you need it. many deck side in creatures removal VS our deck, but they don't side artifact hate.

[jjrotzo]

The revoker is weaker than pithing needle in matchups where you need it. many deck side in creatures removal VS our deck, but they don't side artifact hate.

In fact they do side artifact hate if they want to have outs against Batterskull/Sword/Jitte.

[Maëlig]

The revoker is weaker than pithing needle in matchups where you need it.

Not true. It works wonder vs storm combo or elfball where needle is completely useless. It's also golden vs BUGstill by providing a definite answer to deed along with a body. It's become a bit worse with the metagame shift, but it still helps alot in some of maverick's hardest MUs.

[r0ckstAr]

good job mordraid, performing with this deck when you meet only combo decks is not that easy :)

Maelig : can you develop ? Against storm you want to tutor ethersworn canonist (and even sundial of the infinite) before revoker anyway don't you ? About the elves matchup, i can't tell, i don't know elfball at all

To me the main advantage of revoker is that it's a body, so it will help with the race against decks you use it to slow down, and it can be equipped to swing for the win. The only drawback would be 2cc vs 1cc for needle, but since you need to tutor for it anyway, neither needle not revoker can be online on turn 1

[Julian23]

@Maelig: lol, wut? Needle is way better against BUG's Deed. They got about 5-6 Removal spells to "deal" with Revoker + Jace bounce. Needle meanwhile, will usually remain unanswered except for MPulse.

[Ajsmirnov]

Also they sometimes play Darkblast and it is a blowout against Revokers.

Good points btw, thx everyone. I'll switch my sb Revokers to Needles. Needle is worse only against Petals/LEDs in different Storm Combo. Canonists/Thorns of Amethyst help here.

[Asthereal]

Lol I just cut the Needles because I never sided them in. :-P
But then again I don't play the Entlightened Tutor package.
Not much combo in my meta, so one Teeg side was enough I guess.
But I will tweak a lot for the upcoming GP Amsterdam. I expect more combo there.

[Fatal]

I found in heavy Middle-range aggro MU (which is quite common in Europe) Submerge does the job quite well as tempo card. It works vs:
Rocks/Junks
Bant Aggro
NO Bants
Mirrors
Zoo specially big Zoo
NO RUG

[Ajsmirnov]

Do you often control Island playing Maverick?

[deviant]

You can just add a trop and a tundra and drop some basics. I hardly think that is worth what you give up..

[Asthereal]

Seriously, Submerge?
So you weaken your mana base to remove a creature as long as you control a land you don't want.
And the turn after he replays the creature anyway.
Awesome.

I'm sorry if I sound sceptical, but I would infinitely prefer:
- either adding more Path to Exiles which do a fine job in removing creatures,
- or adding black, which gives us good creature removal next to sweet stuff like Dark Confidant.
Let's just go with the first.

[testing32]

Seriously, Submerge?
So you weaken your mana base to remove a creature as long as you control a land you don't want.
And the turn after he replays the creature anyway.
Awesome.

I'm sorry if I sound sceptical, but I would infinitely prefer:
- either adding more Path to Exiles which do a fine job in removing creatures,
- or adding black, which gives us good creature removal next to sweet stuff like Dark Confidant.
Let's just go with the first.

This forum needs a like button

[Fatal]

Looks like you guys have some problems with "tempo" definition - PtE is really one of the worst removal. Giving extra mana any deck is wrong.

My build already playing on 1 MD Tropical Island (to hardcast if needed MM/Rafiq) so it doesn't change anything. Running 8 fetches brings no problem to search it.

In mirrors always win guy with more tempo cards like -> StP to Hierarch/Hierarch/MM on Hierarch - do you now how much defastating is Submerge first turn Hierarch alone with played KotR ? Its win. Submerge can't be MM, it can be used in resp to GSZ/Fetchland or any shuffle effect. Trust me or not but this card is very powerful in any middle range mirrors or other tempo cards, doesn't say how good it can be vs Team America for example which also is a tempo deck.

[Asthereal]

Maverick was never really a tempo deck anyway.
If you want more tempo, play Zoo, Dark Horizons, Eva Green, Canadian Thresh, Dark Thresh, you name it.

If I play the mirror as you suggested and it goes like:
Him: land into Hierarch
Me: land into Hierarch
Him: Submerge Hierarch, land into KotR
I just go: Plow that KotR, replay Hierarch!
Presto: I'm up a card since he wasted a Submerge on my Hierarch.

And seriously: If you fear Misstep so much that you start to add Wasteable lands to make sure you can play mediocre removal spells, you should seriously condider playing a different format. Misstep does not mess up your gameplan as much as you think it does. Besides, you play four yourself so you can very often counter opposing Missteps.

In the mirror what you really need is enough basics, serious removal (so those Knights are definitely gone), and Elspeth, Knight-Errant to finish that boy off. Tempo is very nice, but if that Knight dies he's not going to do very much anymore.

[Philipp2293]

If I play the mirror as you suggested and it goes like:
Him: land into Hierarch
Me: land into Hierarch
Him: Submerge Hierarch, land into KotR
I just go: Plow that KotR, replay Hierarch!
Presto: I'm up a card since he wasted a Submerge on my Hierarch.



How are you a card up, since that Hierarch replaced your draw?

[Koby]

Maverick was never really a tempo deck anyway.
If you want more tempo, play Zoo, Dark Horizons, Eva Green, Canadian Thresh, Dark Thresh, you name it.

If I play the mirror as you suggested and it goes like:
Him: land into Hierarch
Me: land into Hierarch
Him: Submerge Hierarch, land into KotR
I just go: Plow that KotR, replay Hierarch!
Presto: I'm up a card since he wasted a Submerge on my Hierarch.

And seriously: If you fear Misstep so much that you start to add Wasteable lands to make sure you can play mediocre removal spells, you should seriously condider playing a different format. Misstep does not mess up your gameplan as much as you think it does. Besides, you play four yourself so you can very often counter opposing Missteps.

In the mirror what you really need is enough basics, serious removal (so those Knights are definitely gone), and Elspeth, Knight-Errant to finish that boy off. Tempo is very nice, but if that Knight dies he's not going to do very much anymore.

No, actually the mirror is strictly defined by GSZ, Qasali Pridemage, and Thrun. No other cards matters at all whatsoever.

[Asthereal]

Didn't think of losing the draw there, so it's a bad example.
Good examples are:

- No blue mana means Submerge is a dead card.
- Blue mana lands against Merfolk is a way to lose, where it should be a bye.
- Extra Wasteable lands is bad against almost every deck right now.

The mirror is not only defined by those cards.
The mirror is a battle between the same decks and so every resource matters.
But good resources matter more, so Zenith, Thrun and Elspeth are the really big boys in this one.
Having Maze of Ith while your opponent does not also helps tremendously.

[Maëlig]

Maelig : can you develop ? Against storm you want to tutor ethersworn canonist (and even sundial of the infinite) before revoker anyway don't you ? About the elves matchup, i can't tell, i don't know elfball at all


@Maelig: lol, wut? Needle is way better against BUG's Deed. They got about 5-6 Removal spells to "deal" with Revoker + Jace bounce. Needle meanwhile, will usually remain unanswered except for MPulse.

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear in my previous post. My point was : revoker is very relevant in some of our hardest MUs (where needle would be useless), while still being (almost) as good as needle in the MUs you would side it in. Remember that BUGstill's removal is often in the form of edicts (although it is true some are now playing darkblast), and you can also protect it with mother (if you kept her) or equips.
I should also stress that I'm not talking about revoker as an e.tutor target. I would never side in e.tutor vs BUGstill. It's sufficiently versatile that you can pack multiples in the SB and thus have some additional hate in MU where you would otherwise tutor up your silver bullet.



Don't be so quick to dismiss submerge like it's a crazy idea! I thought about it before, and it certainly is an interesting option. Aggro-control MU where you would side it in are always very close, and this kind of additional help can make the difference. This being said, I'm not convinced it's worth worsening our manabase and risking the occasional dead draw. But it certainly is something worth thinking (and debating) about.

Regarding the mirror, from my experience it often boils down to who can get an active jitte up first. Maze (although very vulnerable), MoR and mindcensor can all be very relevant in preventing your opponent from getting there before you, and these are imo the key cards in the mirror.

[Wasteland]

Mirror is definied by Mothers (+ranger), Knights, Mindcensors and perhaps a Jitte, (if you can get it through enemy mindcensors...), nothing more and nothing less...
Personally i've added 1 tropical and 1 Edric, spymaster of trest for his carddraw is often nuts, but playing more blue lands for submerge sounds ridiculous bad (just think of the rug NO mu, where you want to have a fast Teeg and then surely not want to draw into submerges...)

Greetz,
Marius Hausmann

[Philipp2293]

Hi Marius, I did suggest a 1 Tropical splash for Edric a few pages ago, but did not test this IRL cause straight GW hasn't disappointed me yet, it seems you are satisfied with it? Care to share your list or at least what you cut for him?

[Julian23]

-1 Sylvan Library +1 Edric
-1 Horizon Canopy +1 Tropical

[angel882]

Not true. It works wonder vs storm combo or elfball where needle is completely useless. It's also golden vs BUGstill by providing a definite answer to deed along with a body. It's become a bit worse with the metagame shift, but it still helps alot in some of maverick's hardest MUs.

In my experience, many BUGstill player can't do anything if you play Needle naming Deed. Usually they don't play any other artifactremoval than Pulse. So if you play Needle it is much harder for them to destroy it than if you play Revoker.

[Maëlig]

In my experience, many BUGstill player can't do anything if you play Needle naming Deed. Usually they don't play any other artifactremoval than Pulse. So if you play Needle it is much harder for them to destroy it than if you play Revoker.
Yeah I agree, but the fact that revoker is MM-proof, protectable with a random creature (vs edict) or MoR (targeted removal / jace), equipable and a (small) threat on its own makes it only slightly worse than needle in this MU imo. And revoker >>> needle in other difficult MU, so the choice is obvious for me.

[danyul]

I just started to build this deck and I'm almost finished. Just waiting on a few cards in the mail. But I was wondering, have you all reached a consensus on Mother of Runes/Mental Misstep? From what I've seen, the Europeans don't really care for Mental Misstep where the Americans are a bit ambivalent towards both. And I haven't seen any high-placing tournament lists with Mental Misstep which is puzzling because it seems like such a strong card in theory.

Is this just a metagame call? Is the European meta really that different?

[Fl0do]

Both cards are played to stop removal, but mother is way better.
1) You can use her more than once
2) Mother of Runes gives evasion and is useful for combat tricks
3) She can at least carry an equipment
4) An active Mother of Runes ruins the other players day (aka wins games)
5) MILF

Sure, misstep counters sometimes a random Reanimate or another spell, but that's not an advantage you really need.

[r0ckstAr]

I actually like to play both : mother's main problem is that she is useless on turn 1, and you often have to chose between her and acceleration (noble or GSZ for 0). I think if you want to play more aggressively misstep is better (so that you can reliably put a knight/mirran on turn 2 or swing with an equipped noble/drayd on turn 3), but mother is better if you want to take things more slowly, take the time to protect you threats/silver bullets

Personnally i run 4 MM and 2 MoR

[Koby]

I think it depends on the metagame. In my metagame, Mother of Runes is a dead draw (combo, UW control i.e., Wrath, Show & Tell, Elves etc).

Mental misstep on the otherhand, is amazing in such a metagame - so it's highly dependent on what you're expecting to face that will make the ultimate decision.

[Maëlig]

I play 4 of each (cutting on the random GSZ targets and libraries), and I'm pretty happy with it.


you often have to chose between her and acceleration (noble or GSZ for 0).
When I have NH and MoR in my oppening hand I will virtually ALWAYS go for NH first. With GSZ it's a bit more complex, it depends if I want to use the card as accel (I usually do when I have it in my opening hand), in which case I'll also play it 1st. What are people's feeling on that game situation?

[Koby]

Against creature decks with a low curve in my hand, I may be inclined to play Mother of Runes first. When it's a top heavy hand with 3/4 cc or GSZ to accelerate into KotR, then I will lead with Noble Hierarch.

[danyul]

Thanks for all the tips, guys. I got some things to think about now. This deck is funny because it's clearly strong, but you can really tweak it quite a bit to fit your particular preferences. I could make it a 70 card deck with all the dumb creatures I feel compelled to play in it.

[nonja]

-1 Sylvan Library +1 Edric
-1 Horizon Canopy +1 Tropical

Maverick feat. Edric has won:
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6749&iddeck=48951

[Philipp2293]

So, I know a few people (Fatal for example) have been running Rafiq, how are your experiences with him?

[Tacosnape]

Just for the record, Mother of Runes is actually situationally amazing against a lot of combo decks. Having an Ethersworn Canonist or a Gaddock Teeg on the board is good. Having a Canonist or a Teeg that has bounce/removal protection is usually close to game-winning.

[Fatal]

Rafiq is situational card which I really like.

Its actually also my best weapon vs combo - its best tutorable clock. It also works very well when there is a wall of creatures with lifelink for example, like wurmcoils (MUD). Doubling dmg with first strike is very good.

Example fast clock game:
Turn 1 fetch, Hierarch
Turn 2 fetch, KotR/hate
Turn 3 fetch with KotR/hate
Turn 4 GSZ for Rafiq lethal dmg from KotR.

But there is also a dark side - its 4 cmc its legend so fight vs someone who have KotR -> Karakas isn't best way.

Actually I'm working on version with brainstorm which stabilize lands/threads in middle game which sometimes happens drawing 2-3 lands in row is painful, brainstorm helps a lot in this situation.

[Koby]

Actually I'm working on version with brainstorm which stabilize lands/threads in middle game which sometimes happens drawing 2-3 lands in row is painful, brainstorm helps a lot in this situation.

Sylvan Library solves this problem, along with giving you additional ways to draw more cards. It's also less susceptible to Mental Misstep. Is the addition of Brainstorm in conjunction with Sylvan Library, or in replacement?

[Artlee]

I see medvedev has achieved good results in recent DEs with a somewhat more pure Maverick build.


1 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
4 Savannah
1 Tundra
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte

//SB
1 Angel's Grace
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Choke
1 Dauntless Escort
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Path to Exile
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Sundial of the Infinite
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon


I have been playing a little with this build, although another sideboard. What I really like is the 4 x Mirran Crusader. I know it has been debated quite a lot in here, but playing him on turn 2 instead of Stoneforge -> SoFF really gives some quick beating. It's also worth noting that without the whole GSZ toolbox you are able to play with 4 x Mother of Runes and 4 x Mental Misstep. The Dauntless can also be pretty good against both Wrath of God and especially Pernicious Deed, a card I have had great trouble with.

What do you folks think of this build? I personally like the more straight forward beatdown instead a lot of singletons that might be great in some matchups. It can easily race dredge with exalted Mirran Crusaders in my experience.

[Adan]

Just for the record, Mother of Runes is actually situationally amazing against a lot of combo decks. Having an Ethersworn Canonist or a Gaddock Teeg on the board is good. Having a Canonist or a Teeg that has bounce/removal protection is usually close to game-winning.

This. Plus Mother of Runes has got insane synergies with Quirion and Scryb Ranger.

[danyul]

@Artlee - I saw these lists on the decks of the week page also. It certainly is an interesting build. Very bold of him to just say "screw it" to the traditional thinking and run his own thing. I've been prepping for a Lotus tournament and wanted to take a variant of Maverick and I just can't settle on a build.

I like medvedev's redundancy with 4 MoM and 4 MM. But I worry about the lack of Stoneforge. How does this build run against UW Stoneblade decks? Sometimes you really need an equip to match theirs in those matchups. Is Mirran Crusader really that much of a beatstick? I'm sure Elspeth does work there too. Hmm.

I would say I prefer Aven Mindcensor over Crusader but everytime I play that card it gets killed or countered right away. And when it does stick around it just kind of sits there. It's difficult to gauge the full value of Aven Mindcensor because of that.

I'll give his list a run though. It looks like it gets out of the gate a turn or so faster than the SFM builds.

Which version would you guys run in a meta with mostly NORUG, UW Stoneblade, a bit of Hive Mind and maybe a Reanimator or two?

[Fatal]

Toolboxed

No RUG/Reanimator/UW Stoneblade/Hive Mind - Aven Mindcensor blocks the most important cards:
Natural Order/Entomb/SFM/Intuition.

And now let see what gives you Crusader:
1) Blocks Goyfs attack nice over Hydra, dies to Lavamancer/bolts/Fire//Ice which would be sided along with the Submerge in NO RUG.
2) Reanimator - can attack though the Sphinx of the Steel Wind, but dies to Elesh Norn.. (same as Censor but he can be used in resp - Crusader can't)
3) UW Stoneblade - Can attack though the Batterskull and have protection from it - very nice - Aven stops searching, can be fleshed to killing Jace, and its also unblockable. Both are nice in this MU, but probably flash is key card here.
4) Hive Mind - Clock + Disrupt - only chance, Mirran without disrupt can't be on time..

[Artlee]

This. Plus Mother of Runes has got insane synergies with Quirion and Scryb Ranger.
Sure, but I feel this is one of those situational synergies that takes a lot of resources to obtain. how often have you REALLY felt the need to play mother of runes, GSZ -> one of the rangers and also have something worth protecting... Twice?


@Artlee - I saw these lists on the decks of the week page also. It certainly is an interesting build. Very bold of him to just say "screw it" to the traditional thinking and run his own thing. I've been prepping for a Lotus tournament and wanted to take a variant of Maverick and I just can't settle on a build.

Regarding Aven Mindcensor vs Mirran Crusader: They obviously have different benefits, but I feel Mirran Crusader is better in maindeck while Aven Mindcensor is definitely worth having in the sideboard.

I like medvedev's redundancy with 4 MoM and 4 MM. But I worry about the lack of Stoneforge. How does this build run against UW Stoneblade decks? Sometimes you really need an equip to match theirs in those matchups. Is Mirran Crusader really that much of a beatstick? I'm sure Elspeth does work there too. Hmm.

I would say I prefer Aven Mindcensor over Crusader but everytime I play that card it gets killed or countered right away. And when it does stick around it just kind of sits there. It's difficult to gauge the full value of Aven Mindcensor because of that.

I'll give his list a run though. It looks like it gets out of the gate a turn or so faster than the SFM builds.

Which version would you guys run in a meta with mostly NORUG, UW Stoneblade, a bit of Hive Mind and maybe a Reanimator or two?

My problem with stoneforge is that when I go for batterskull they kill stoneforge. When I go for other swords I feel I'm "wasting" time cheating equipment into play and not having enough creatures on board. Many decks get a lot of time to find answers for this by the time you have equipped. Instead of this hassle you can have lots of creatures on board and use Mother of Runes and Mirran Crusader for colour protection.

I actually just saw a match between medvedev and prolepsis9 (UW faerie visions). It went 2-1 in medvedev's favour and he won his matches with ramping into KotR -> wasteland while landing Elspeth. The game he/she lost was because of no one-drops and prolepsis suspending visions on turn 1 and 2. As often it's very effective to ramp into KotR and start attacking the mana, while simultaneously making KotR bigger. Lastly Mother of Runes did great protecting vs batterskull token.

[Vesper Ghoul]

Just for the sake of it Most people call it Maverick but it was more of a 'Geddon deck. Lost in top 8 mainly to not having a way to deal with Humility.

NELC @ Jupiter Games
6th Place: Joe Marucci

1 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Mox Diamond
1 Sylvan Library
2 Terravore
3 Armageddon
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Life from the Loam
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

2 Plains
2 Forest
3 Savannah
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Nantuko Monastery
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Flagstones of Trokair

Sideboard:
3 Angel’s Grace
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Circle of Protection Green
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Bojuka Bog
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

[Maëlig]

Just for the sake of it Most people call it Maverick but it was more of a 'Geddon deck.
Congrats! I've been toying around with this idea too, basically creating a hybrid between white stax and maverick (maverick stompy?). We're getting a bit far from the original concept here obviously and this is essentially a different deck, but since there's no dedicated thread I'll post the list here :


3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
1 Rishadan Port
3 Savannah
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
4 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Armageddon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Batterskull
2 Sylvan Library


The idea is to keep from maverick the denial package and complement it with geddon and crucible for the waste-lock. The light disruption / protection (swords, mother) is replaced with chalice which looks good atm, and all of this is given acceleration in the form of sol lands & moxes. Knight is more than ever the pillar of the deck. Canopy + crucible is solid CA in the late-game, and a geddon followed by a knight activation for tabernacle is super nice.
As I said this is just an experimental concept, I no significant testing experience to share.

[ThoSha]

Anyone tried Loam Lion in this deck? That guy is awesome.

[Koby]

Anyone tried Loam Lion in this deck? That guy is awesome.

I have recently picked a few up. I'm in the process of hammering out a decklist with him.

[Philipp2293]

Please share if done.
Tbh, I'm not sure if another 1 drop (with not that impressive stats) is what the deck needs.

[Artlee]

Please share if done.
Tbh, I'm not sure if another 1 drop (with not that impressive stats) is what the deck needs.

2/3 for W is good stats. Iknow it's a conditional bonus, but quite reliable.

[Bzka]

I have no idea why this deck needs a t1 2/3 vanilla when you can have a t2 4/4+ who bursts out wastelands or an SFM with removal protection, which can both single handedly win games, where a Loam Lion can't. Also he is a bad choice for equipment, as he lacks evasion. He is our worst t1 drop and a rather dead topdeck afterwards, which sounds rather unimpressive.

[Fatal]

Putting 2/3 W Vanilla is wrong direction. I was even thinking about cutting last goyf. It is always unimpressive and also I didn't GSZ for him since 2-3 months.

Scavenging Ooze was always better, or Scryb Ranger.

[Julian23]

The last thing this deck wants is a vanilla creature. It also doesn't fit into the mana curve as it would only be your 4th best 1-drop in a deck that is all about efficiency. Each card in Maverick is good. Loam Lion is not.

(/Loam Lion)

[Mr.Dieth]

Agree, Just as everybody is starting to cut goyfs ( because they are vanilla, and goyf is much much better then loam lion )

So you would acctually be cutting goyfs to play loam lion?

http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-trolling-or-just-very-stupid.jpg

[ThoSha]

Actually it was just a suggestion, he might not be good at all.
Tried him last night on MWS tough in the place of Mother of Runes, and i was satisfied everytime i dropped him, as he was an extra 4-6 damage each game. I really liked the extra aggro note from the start, but i might be wrong with that.

Mr. Dieth:
Yeah sure, im cutting Goyfs to add Loam Lions..
In fact i was running 2 Goyfs and GSZ, like I care what everyone else does.
Play in someone elses garden, kid.

[Ajsmirnov]

Cutting Mother of Runes is VERY bad idea, man. For any purpose.

[fdiv_bug]

Cutting Mother of Runes is VERY bad idea, man. For any purpose.

I agree, especially if you're replacing her with, at best, a 2/3 vanilla creature.

[Tacosnape]

Maverick is not a traditional aggro deck. Maverick is a unique deck in that it usually wants to swing with just one guy each turn and do utility shit with the rest. Speed is not as important as longevity here, and cards like Stoneforge Mystic, Knight of the Reliquary, and Mother of Runes, all of which who make big differences in the long game, are forces to be reckoned with.

So what's the general consensus on dealing with Stoneblade here? All I see are ways to deal with the Mystic itself, which isn't what I'm frightened of. It's all the Jace/Visions shenanigans that seem to cause more problems. Is Scryb Ranger the MVP here, given his ability to take down Clique/Spellstutter, avoid Jace Bounce, fly over Stoneforge/Batterskull, and get there? If you had 2-3 spots to dedicate in the board to beating this match, what would you take? And what would you take if you were trying to do well against BUG Visions in the process also?

[supa_tim]

I've been testing with the Loam Lion only because I haven't acquired Moms yet. He is very much the weakest card in the deck. I almost never want to play him turn 1 and he always feels like a bad topdeck. There are so many games that would have been won if he was Mother of Runes.

[Draener]

The problem with the stoneblade/bugstill matchup is Maverick really doesn't have a way to interact with their cheap card advantage. This is especially true of visions, but is also true of Jace if either deck is allowed to properly setup. This is especially true due to the fact the deck actively encourages attacking with only a single creature (exalted), thus allowing a single removal / chump block to effectively timewalk you a turn. Now the most effective way to beat visions is probably Spellstutter Sprite which combines nicely with Scryb Ranger to take down Jace, but I'm sure most of you wont want to splash blue.

As for on color Solutions, there's always Zodiac Horse. On a more serious note, a well timed choke can get bugstill really good, but it's much harder to get the stoneblade decks with this. Elspeth is really good against both, but is often dificult to cast, and needs to be protected by Scryb Ranger against stoneblade. One strategy I have had moderate success with is the combo of 2 Life from the Loam and 1 Tower of the Magistrate. Loam is good against both bugstill and stoneblade, Dealing with reoccurring Horizons canopies and wasteland is really difficult for these decks.

[Asthereal]

Adding Loam Lion seems awkward to me.
If I wanted more one/drop options, I think I would try Aether Vial.
That boy helps rushing important beasts into play while still having mana left to equip.
End of turn Vial in SFM, get Batterskull, own turn Mystic in the Batterskull seems nice too.

The tourney I beat Stoneblade, I had 3 Krosan Grips side and 3 main deck Elspeths.
That was enough. :)

[fdiv_bug]

One strategy I have had moderate success with is the combo of 2 Life from the Loam and 1 Tower of the Magistrate. Loam is good against both bugstill and stoneblade, Dealing with reoccurring Horizons canopies and wasteland is really difficult for these decks.

I don't run with the Tower, but I do have a Crucible of Worlds in my sideboard since I use the Enlightened Tutor board toolbox plan. Wastelocking some decks just works too well to pass up.

[Fatal]

Also note:

If you have problems with Stoneblade use Riftsweeper in SB. Its best dude vs Visions. If you cut their CA they will lose. You can fetch it from GSZ for 2.

[Philipp2293]

Fuck yeah, I had it in the back of my mind that there was a guy that was good vs Visions, but was too lazy to look it up. Thank you.

[fdiv_bug]

Also note:

If you have problems with Stoneblade use Riftsweeper in SB. Its best dude vs Visions. If you cut their CA they will lose. You can fetch it from GSZ for 2.

Hot damn, that's a good find. Thanks for sharing! /me snags one from his bulk boxes to bring with him to Atlanta this weekend.

[Draener]

Call me crazy, but I don't know if a 1 of target that is good against exactly 4 cards in their deck is going to make that big of a difference.

[mordraid]

Call me crazy, but I don't know if a 1 of target that is good against exactly 4 cards in their deck is going to make that big of a difference.

By the time they get their next ancestral visons and their next 4 turns to get the cards, they "should" be already dead.

[Ajsmirnov]

Riftsweeper is nice, but do we have an extra room in sb? (btw Riftsweeper was mentioned by Fatal about 10 pages back :) )

My Stoneblade opponents usually side out SFM and Equipments and bring WoGs, Eslpeth, Path to Exiles and Disenchants. So I cannot use Krosan Grips, Tower ets. I usually ignore Visions and bring Gaddock Teeg as fast as I can. With Mom's protection and Missteps he is real problem for them. Shuts down their entire game plan(unless they topdeck a singleton Karakas).

Maybe Riftsweeper would be good addition, but with Teeg in play I cannot search for it.

Current SB, if anyone interested:

3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Choke
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Thorn of Ametyst

[mordraid]

against stoneblade your bringing teeg for what ? force of will ?

[fdiv_bug]

against stoneblade your bringing teeg for what ? force of will ?

Sure, but mostly Jace.

[apprentice]

what are good SB cards for NO rug?

[Julian23]

You should have 3 Aven Mindcensor, which are quite good against them, maindeck in the first place. Just watch out to protect him from Lavamancer/Burn with Mother of Runes, possibly with an active Quirion/Scryb Ranger. Other than that, try 2 copies of Phyrexian Metamorph + 1 or 2 Enlightened Tutor in the sb. You should mainly fight the combo, as the rest of NO Rug will at one point just crumble under KotR burrying them under Wastelands. However watch out for Fire/Ice 2-for-1-ing you with all your little small critters.

[Ajsmirnov]

against stoneblade your bringing teeg for what ? force of will ?

read my post, please.

bring WoGs, Eslpeth, Path to Exiles and Disenchants
Wrath of God
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Force of Will

Teeg is good against all this

[mordraid]

read my post, please.




Riftsweeper is nice, but do we have an extra room in sb? (btw Riftsweeper was mentioned by Fatal about 10 pages back :) )

My Stoneblade opponents usually side out SFM and Equipments and bring WoGs, Eslpeth, Path to Exiles and Disenchants. So I cannot use Krosan Grips, Tower ets. I usually ignore Visions and bring Gaddock Teeg as fast as I can. With Mom's protection and Missteps he is real problem for them. Shuts down their entire game plan(unless they topdeck a singleton Karakas).

Maybe Riftsweeper would be good addition, but with Teeg in play I cannot search for it.



I've read it but i haven't seen anywhere you bring teeg against what.

[Fatal]

New Tech in testing vs popular Aggro Bant/Maverick/other creatures deck:

Act of Aggression

This card looks to me as answer to all Jaces under blocks. It can be 2-of-1 removal and really great combat trick.

But unfortunately i didn't test it too well so if you have time - please make also you tests.

[Maëlig]

I usually ignore Visions and bring Gaddock Teeg as fast as I can. With Mom's protection and Missteps he is real problem for them. Shuts down their entire game plan(unless they topdeck a singleton Karakas).
Yeah I agree. Riftsweeper is funky but a bit narrow, and 90% of the time my first zenith target against them will be teeg anyways. I would add that the card I fear the most post-SB is wrath, because you kind of have to overextend against them (we play aggro since they have a better late-game and we need multiple threats on the board to deal with PW). Teeg protects both our board and himself from that, which is super nice. I'm assuming you already have 1 MD teeg?

[Ajsmirnov]

It depends. Eslpeth or Teeg. If I expect more aggro or more control

[Julian23]

I advise you to keep 1 Gaddock md. It just wins g1 against most combo (but Hive Mind) as those decks usually have no out to Mother+Gaddock in game1.

[Ajsmirnov]

Sure. If it is a 12-15 players tournament it means here 1-2 combo and i keep him in sb. If it is 30 players, like city championship, there is much more combo and control, Teeg goes md.

But thx you for advice. I play maverick for 2-3 months only and might be making some mistakes

[Tacosnape]

Went 6-3 with this at Starcity. Could have gone 7-2 had I not guessed incorrectly what an opponent's hand was against Faeries, where I spent time trying to stick a Choke rather than equip and swing with a Jitte. The two counters ended up making the difference. Here's how things went down.

Round 1: Zoo (2-1). I steal game 1 off a Wasteland and buy time to stabilize against the fast. Jitte gets there. Game 2 I lose because he goes first. Game 3 he loses because I go first.

Round 2: Maverick Mirror (0-2, 1-1 overall). Game one he god draws me and has like 6 guys on the board before I can blink due to Gaea's Cradle. I end up topdecking all my equipment and playing my first Stoneforge as a Squire. Yay. Game 2 I mull to 6, keep a semi-okay hand, and lose to more amazing sacks of guys. Never saw a single spell from him that wasn't a guy. Seems good.

Round 3: 4-Color Bant (2-0, 2-1 overall). Never figured out what the black was for, but he led Tropical, Noble, then dropped a Scrubland. Don't remember much about this, other than that I drew like 957 Stoneforges midgame and got there.

Round 4: Dredge (2-0) His Breakthrough misses a second Dredger, and rolls a ton of Bridges. I remove them with Knight, Dryad Arbor, and GSZ up a Teeg to stop Dread Return. Right before I'm still about to die to a pile of Narco's and a few Zombie tokens, I draw Jitte. Sweet. Game 2 he mulls to four and I keep a 6-carder of three fetches, a Wasteland, a Maze, and a Surgical Extraction. I hunt up a bunch of Dryad Arbors, then get a Knight of the Reliquary and get there.

Round 5: BWR Faeries (1-2, 3-2 Overall). I get game one by doing every single point of damage with Mother of Runes. Not kidding. Game two is when I pick playing the Choke over equipping the Jitte (His hand had all Forces and Cliques and no removal), and at the very end he barely outraces me at 1. Game three I get rolled by Bitterblossom/Jitte stuff.

Round 6: Belcher (2-0, 4-2 Overall). Opening hands with Mental Misstep, two Land, Noble Hierarch, and GSZ are amazing here. Teeg gets there. Both times.

Round 7: Stoneblade (2-0, 5-2 overall). Dear Gaddock Teeg. Thank you for singlehandedly winning me this match. Sincerely, Tacosnape.

Round 8: NO Rug (0-2, 5-3 overall). I mull to six with no land. I mull to five with no land. I keep a five of no land, but a Noble, a GSZ, a Swords, a Path, and a Mental Misstep. I don't draw the needed land. Game two? Turn three Progenitus. Yay.

Round 9: Stoneblade (1-0 Time, 6-3 Overall)
Game one takes 46 minutes played at normal pace due to us both having Mazes and all our equipment out and somehow neither of us ever being able to draw a Wasteland, ever. I finally take down an entire army of his guys due to the amazing power of a multi-equipped Scryb Ranger. Like the one Scryb Ranger got there. So good. Game 2 we get to turns by like turn six, and I play defensively and he scoops before the turns end.

Quick hit thoughts before work:
1. Scryb Ranger is stupidly amazing. I'll never not run him again.
2. The only time I ever was happy to see Sword of Fire and Ice was against Stoneblade. At NO TIME today did I ever want Batterskull. Batterskull was terrible all day. Worst card in my deck. If you run Misstep, you don't need Batterskull. Jitte, on the other hand, was my mvp all day. I will be running a second Jitte main in the future. That good.
3. Choke is just beautiful in this meta.
4. Aven Mindcensor wins games.
5. The format is pretty healthy, despite what people say.
6. I had a mild blue splash (One Tropical main and seven fetches) and Mages in sideboard. Amazingly tech.
7. Only ran one Canopy. Didn't miss it.
8. Run the maindeck Gaddock Teeg. I would not have beaten Belcher or Stoneblade without him. Also, don't forget to board him out against Zoo because you're hung over.
9. $20 bottles of Hpnotiq the size of my face are amazing.

[Maëlig]

Interesting, would you care to share your list (I'm assuming the one you previously posted is outdated)? I would be particularly interested in getting some feedback (from you or others who tried it) on meddling mage. I'm also playing a light blue splash for SB cards, but until now it's been spellpierce and submerge (which are both amazing, btw), but mage seems very interesting, too.

Oh, and I agree about MD teeg, no question. This little guy really shines in our worst MU.

[danpo]

Went 7-2 yesterday for 9th/250 in Atlanta, list here:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40716

Misplayed tons, just tons. My opponents were generally pretty nice and tight players so all credit to the deck. Lost to NO-RUG in part to a mull to four and a pretty dank last-out Brainstorm on his part. Lost to U/b Bobfolk by walking into Perish like a sonofabitch and forgetting I had Mental Misstep in my hand to force a Zenith for 0 through in order to stick Choke.
Scavenging Ooze is just the Bitch, love that card. See also: Mirran Crusader and Aven Mindcensor. Party!
Only change I would make is maybe adding a second Choke in the sideboard. Never boarded in Thorn and Thrun never did anything my other guys couldn't do just as well, but that's not those cards' fault.

Feel like a dipshit for failing to make Tacos' acquaintance, I think Again.

[SansSerif]

Danpo,

Congratulations on your results. Don't feel bad about your misplays, everyone makes them and this is one of those decks that require many small decisions that can have big impact on your game.

I was wondering about your sideboard, I don't see it on the SCG link. I was also wondering how the 2/2/4 split of Crusader, Mindcensor, and MM turned out. I have wrestled with the optimal split of these cards and i always assumed a 2/2/4 would dilute the effectiveness of each card.

[Koby]

They fixed up the T16 decklists.

The GW list can be found By Clicking here (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40717)

[crovakiet]

They fixed up the T16 decklists.

The GW list can be found By Clicking here (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40717)

Has anyone notified SCG that said G/W list(s) should be renamed to 'Maverick' instead of generic 'G/W Stoneblade'? Or does anyone even care?

[Ajsmirnov]

No Mother of Runes? Why?!

[Asthereal]

Played a tourney of about 75 people yesterday with Maverick.

Lesson one: Never ever in your lifetime include Wing Shards in either main deck or sideboard. That card is SO bad it was scary. I played them sideboard because I wanted to try the tech versus NOPRO and Emrakuls. NOPRO just attacked with both PRO and an Arbor. Versus other matchups I either never got the needed WW1, or they never attacked me. Paths please!

Lesson two: Never ever doubt yourself when you say you don't need Batterskull and other say it's magnificent. It was horrible. SFMs died and the Skull just sat there in my hand. Only time I cast it, I had already won without it. I will trade it for a sweet Sword of some kind. Those did work very nicely.

Lesson three: shuffle well before netering a tournament. I had to mulligan ten times during the tourney (seven rounds). No lands all day.

Lesson four: never play two main deck Thruns. Too slow! Even in matchups where they are good, you would prefer cheaper creatures despite the fact that they're vulnerable to removal. One in the board will do.

Life from the Loam is a sweet sideboard card though. I had to mull to four one game, keeping two lands, Loam and a random critter. Critter got Plowed, but my opponent fetched up two nonbasics and had two more on hand, and I found a lovely Wasteland. Loam+Waste wrapped him up pretty nicely. :) He was a bit grumpy about that, but then again I mulled to four playing a creature deck and he was carrying a hand full of Plows and Wraths. Loam also helped greatly against Pox, retrieving valuable lands, and against UGr NOPRO keeping him off Natural Order mana.

[Tacosnape]

Went 7-2 yesterday for 9th/250 in Atlanta, list here: .

Feel like a dipshit for failing to make Tacos' acquaintance, I think Again.

Congrats on the result. I like your list, especially the Metamorph in board. How'd your manabase treat you? I may be going to Nashville if I can afford it. Gotta find you then. I was the bald dude in the black shirt and pimpin' fedora.

My list, odd as it seemed, was as follows:

4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

4 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg

SB:
3 Choke
3 Meddling Mage
2 Angel's Grace
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Krosan Grip

I'm seriously contemplating cutting the entire equipment package except for 2 Jittes and 2 Stoneforges. The remainder of the equipment was just underwhelming and Jitte was by FAR my MVP, with SOFI only being good one time against Stoneblade in round 9 (It would have been good against Faeries, but it got Cliqued out of my hand despite my attempts to keep my opponent off Clique mana with a Wasteland). This would allow me more Mindcensors/Mirran Crusaders main and less useless cards.

Also, I'm sure my yard hate choices will seem bizarre. The explanation? I expected a lot of Reanimator. And there WAS a lot of Reanimator. I just didn't face it. I think Bojuka Bog and Scavenging Ooze are just way too slow against Reanimator. Scavenging Ooze will definitely show up in my main once Snapcaster Mage exists, though, as Ooze is a monster against that card. I only missed Bojuka Bog against Dredge.

Things I do feel I got right, though:
-2 Dryad Arbor. I never wanted three, but I wanted two a lot. I think this is the perfect number for all the turbo Zenithing I do on turn one, all the fetching for equipment guys, all the Knighting to kill Bridges with shenanigans, etc.
-2 Qasali Pridemage. It used to be so alien to me not to run four of these guys. And in some metagames I'd probably like three. But I boarded them out at least three times. And I felt like two was just the right number.
-3 Meddling Mage. I actually did this because I couldn't find a Riftsweeper and because my friend Lucas talked me into it. I did not regret this choice at all. I didn't face most of the matches where it would be best, but it was great against Ancestral Visions, sealed me the match against Belcher, and was great against the 4-color Bant I assume, because my opponent died with like 5 cards in hand and plenty of land in play. The ONLY drawback to this was that I Choked my Tropical Island a couple times. I swear Choke and Tropical Island like gravitate towards each other when you shuffle.
-7 Fetchlands. I won a lot of games because Knight hit the board huge.
-1 Scryb Ranger. Yeah, I seriously didn't understand. This guy and Knight are sometimes actually better than two Knights. Also, flashing him in to nerf a Wasteland is sick. Don't remember when I did this, but I'm pretty sure I did.
-1 Horizon Canopy. I did not lose a single game to my life total just being way lower than it should have been, and very rarely did I wish I had it when I didn't.

Things I'd change:
-3 Mother of Runes. I won a lot of games where my board position was shit and I stalled for 7 turns with MOMnanigans until I equalized. I'd do four again.
-1 Batterskull. I hated it. I didn't even need it against Zoo. Jittes are just better.
-1 Eternal Witness. First time I've ever run less than two. I wanted to see it a lot more than I ever did.

[Draener]

I think meddling mage is a much better solution to ancestral visions than Riftsweeper. Riftsweeper is the definition of a narrow answer and has the possibility of being completely dead, while mage can be brought in against a ton of decks.

[Sigar]

Obviously, but you can't zenith for mage. That's the whole point.

[Draener]

Really? It's obvious that you would want to run an extremely narrow answer that you can tutor for over a card with broad applications that you can board multiples in and hope to draw? I'm not so sure that it is. There comes a point when you're running so many tutor targets that you just start awkwardly drawing them. Even worse, you screw with your sideboard to the point where you're running a bunch of tutor targets for specific match ups, that you can only board in one or two cards, and those cards actually don't improve the match by a significant margin. What I am saying is that it is better to cut a couple of cards from your sideboard to run three mages than it is to have 1 riftsweeper and two other cards, especially if you can form your sideboard in such a way that mage also handles hate against other bad matchups.

[crow_mw]

He just pointed out the only reason why you would even start considering Riftsweeper over MM.

[Draener]

Yes, I am pointing out why I believe that when considering a card we should take a look at the real cost of running it. In this case, we have Riftsweeper + 2 sideboard slots vs 3 meddling mage. I am in favor of the latter, because I don't believe that Riftsweepers impact is large enough to warrent a tutor target slot. Scavenging ooze, on the other hand, has such a large impact in the matchups you want him that he warrants a sideboard slot, and possibly even a main deck slot. Regaurdless, I don't believe that the choice between these two options is actually 'obvious'.

[Philipp2293]

@Tacosnape:

Thanks for your thoughts, some additional questions:

-) Did you ever miss any additional fat (e.g. Terravore) next to your Knights?
-) How were the missteps?
-) You said the Mindcensor was great, but what was your point for running exactly 1?

[Bzka]

Lesson one: Never ever in your lifetime include Wing Shards in either main deck or sideboard. That card is SO bad it was scary. I played them sideboard because I wanted to try the tech versus NOPRO and Emrakuls. NOPRO just attacked with both PRO and an Arbor. Versus other matchups I either never got the needed WW1, or they never attacked me. Paths please!



Wing Shards are so good, i love them, but they need to be played correctly. Allowing your opponent to untap with Progenitus + another dude should not happen, esp when its a Dryad Arbor. If they do, you can Maze of Ith the other dude and kill the hydra, or you block the dude, eat the damage and use the shards in end of combat phase, as they need to swing 2 times for the win(because most of the time they cant afford to keep all the burn for you)
Getting 1WW with a maverick manabase in the given matchups is quite easy, too.

[CorpT]

Wing Shards are so good, i love them, but they need to be played correctly. Allowing your opponent to untap with Progenitus + another dude should not happen, esp when its a Dryad Arbor. If they do, you can Maze of Ith the other dude and kill the hydra,

This doesn't work. Maze of Ith doesn't make Dryad Arbor not an attacking creature. It just untaps it and prevents all combat damage to and from it.

[Bzka]

This doesn't work. Maze of Ith doesn't make Dryad Arbor not an attacking creature. It just untaps it and prevents all combat damage to and from it.

my bad.

[Fatal]

Just block Dryad and Shard Progenitus -.- at end of combat..

[r0ckstAr]

This doesn't work. Maze of Ith doesn't make Dryad Arbor not an attacking creature. It just untaps it and prevents all combat damage to and from it.
You can still do this and watch your opponent sacrifice progenitus and leave Dryad Arbor on the board.

More seriously though, if you run the Wordly or Enlightened toolbox, i feel like metamorph is a very solid SB option. Moreover, it works wonders against reanimator too, and wins games depending on what they gave you to clone.

It is only inferior to Wing Shards against sneak attack, and you probably already have gaddock, qasali and revoker against that

[slaydo]

Hi,

i have been working on this deck and I find it very hard to make a good decklist. Sometimes MoR is nuts, other times its meh. Can you ppl please help me fine tune my list? I have taken the 9th place finisher from SGC Atlanta as basis

1 bird of paradise
3 noble hierarch
2 aven mindcensor
1 cold-eyed selkie
1 gaddock teeg
3 knight of the reliquary
2 mirran crusader
1 terravore
1 scavenging ooze
3 qasali pridemage
1 scryb ranger
4 stoneforge mystic
1 eternal witness
1 dryad arbor

4 mental misstep
4 swords to plowshares

1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of light and shadow
1 sword of body and mind

4 green sun's zenith

2 forest
2 horizon canopy
1 karakas
1 maze of ith
1 misty rainforest
1 plains
4 savannah
4 wasteland
4 windswept heath


sb:
1 manriki-gusari
2 phyrexian metamorph
2 ethersworn canonist
1 riftsweeper
1 choke
1 dueling grounds
2 enlightened tutor
2 krosan grip
1 life from the loam

my meta is very very blue oriented. i am prepping for GP Amsterdam and have a GPT come sunday. I want to be as prepared as possible. I love this deck and I think I can get far if tuned properly. Can you help me?

thnx

Slaydo

[Koby]

my meta is very very blue oriented. i am prepping for GP Amsterdam and have a GPT come sunday. I want to be as prepared as possible. I love this deck and I think I can get far if tuned properly. Can you help me?


If that is what you say, then Thrun would give you more utility starting in the Maindeck. You also want to maximize the KotR in your list. Finally, Maze of Ith should be considered whether you need it. Many of us have found it lacking in the maindeck, and hardly useful in the Sideboard. Cold-Eyed Selkie could also become Edric if you have a blue-splash (usually 1 Trop), but all the 1cc mana dorks can help to cast him too, or be found via GSZ.

overall, the list looks standard.

[slaydo]

If that is what you say, then Thrun would give you more utility starting in the Maindeck. You also want to maximize the KotR in your list. Finally, Maze of Ith should be considered whether you need it. Many of us have found it lacking in the maindeck, and hardly useful in the Sideboard. Cold-Eyed Selkie could also become Edric if you have a blue-splash (usually 1 Trop), but all the 1cc mana dorks can help to cast him too, or be found via GSZ.

overall, the list looks standard.

I tested Edric and he isn't worth the slot imho. Thrun and the 4th KotR are however I dont know what to cut. any ideas?

[r0ckstAr]

To me your list lacks a few lands too : I currently run 22 lands (including Maze but also Cradle) and i sometimes feel like i don't have enough of them (no brainstorm or cantrips to help find the right ones...) - I often feel one wasteland puts me in a really difficult position, especially if my noble/bird/dryad gets Sworded

Other than that I advise you to try a Revoker in your SB, it's a great card against a LOT of stuff (sneak, jace, sfm, led ... it really has a ton of uses)

Also, are you satisfied with SoBaM ? I think in my next tourny i'll try with SoLaS and 2 Jittes.

EDIT : What to cut ? Maybe try to play 60 cards, with 57 there's a good chance you will not see day 2 at amsterdam ;)

[slaydo]

To me your list lacks a few lands too : I currently run 22 lands (including Maze but also Cradle) and i sometimes feel like i don't have enough of them (no brainstorm or cantrips to help find the right ones...) - I often feel one wasteland puts me in a really difficult position, especially if my noble/bird/dryad gets Sworded

Other than that I advise you to try a Revoker in your SB, it's a great card against a LOT of stuff (sneak, jace, sfm, led ... it really has a ton of uses)

Also, are you satisfied with SoBaM ? I think in my next tourny i'll try with SoLaS and 2 Jittes.

EDIT : What to cut ? Maybe try to play 60 cards, with 57 there's a good chance you will not see day 2 at amsterdam ;)

fixed. its 60 cards now. you counted 58. I tried cradle and if they keep your critter count down it won't give a lot of mana. sobam is in testing right now. I was thinking on revoker, maybe cut a dueling grounds from the board?

[Ajsmirnov]

I was playing Revokers, and switched to Needles. As said before, its important against UBG. They kill Revoker and ruin you with Deed. But they can do almost nothing to Needle(1-2 Pulses maximum).

[Tacosnape]

@Tacosnape:

Thanks for your thoughts, some additional questions:

-) Did you ever miss any additional fat (e.g. Terravore) next to your Knights?
-) How were the missteps?
-) You said the Mindcensor was great, but what was your point for running exactly 1?

1. No. Never ever once. Four Knights, four ways to fetch Knight, and the ability for guys to get huge with Exalted Triggers + Equipment? Size of my guys was never once an issue, except for the fact that Fire//Ice is amazing against me. I don't think Terravore's a necessary card in the maindeck, although I do think he's the boss of bosses in the mirror. And you guys know how I feel about Tarmogoyf at this point.

2. Absolutely incredible. I'm pretty sure I'd have scrubbed out much quicker without them.

3. Lack of room? I tried for hours to squeeze a second one in the main and never quite got there, and I never came up with anything I really wanted more than the maindeck one. So I stuffed one main and the other two in an already too tight sideboard. In Hindsight I'm actually going to probably end up running a Metamorph or two and moving the Mindcensors to the board.

[danpo]

Danpo,

Congratulations on your results. Don't feel bad about your misplays, everyone makes them and this is one of those decks that require many small decisions that can have big impact on your game.

I was wondering about your sideboard, I don't see it on the SCG link. I was also wondering how the 2/2/4 split of Crusader, Mindcensor, and MM turned out. I have wrestled with the optimal split of these cards and i always assumed a 2/2/4 would dilute the effectiveness of each card.

I can see trying to massage in a third Mindcensor and/or Crusader, but I'm really not sure where I'd cut to do so. Further thoughts on MM below:


No Mother of Runes? Why?!

Man do I love some Mother of Runes, and have played her just tons over the years. But I think this deck just has other, better ways to do a lot of her work.
Like, Mental Misstep lets you protect guys from Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares and in my case one round a Ghastly Demise. It that sense it's like Mom in that it protects a guy from removal.
But Mental Misstep also lets you Misstep back if your Zenith for Dryad Arbor gets MM'd. And it lets you stop Merfolk's Aether Vial and the odd Reanimate, discard outlet for Dredge, etc. Versatile applications like this where Mom is irrelevant I think is what really shines in Misstep's favor.

Outside that, yeah, Mom lets you block for days, and I have treaded water that way many a time. But Maze of Ith is tutorable and does the same thing. And where Mom lets you bash through a bunch of blockers, often it's nothing a huge/huge KotR couldn't handle anyway, plus the deck has tutorable flyers and protection-giving equipment to smash past ground stalls. This was relelvant one game where an opponent had a few invincible Elspeth tokens and eventually I just ground him out by gearing up a Mindcensor with Sword of Fire and Ice. Protection from Mom wouldn't have helped because he had invincible Mutavaults as well.


Congrats on the result. I like your list, especially the Metamorph in board. How'd your manabase treat you? I may be going to Nashville if I can afford it.

It was nice having an out against Progenitus, and I did board it in for that matchup but never managed to find it when it would've been relevant.
Overall the manabase was fine; I took relatively few mulligans on the day I thought. Getting pinged off Horizon Canopy cost me a very close game, but I think that's because we were playing a tight game of Magic and not because Horizon Canopy sucks and needs replacing. I could see massaging in a second Dryad Arbor perhaps, because it seemed to find its way into a lot of hands where I would've Zenithed for it.

Anyway yeah let's rally if you come to Nashville.

-

I boarded out pieces of the equipment package a lot, and boarded in Path to Exile a lot, but I think as-constructed the list is really open-ended in game one and customizes nicely from there. Maybe someone with a very good read of a narrow meta could fine-tune it better, but you don't see my sloppy ass even pretending to be that pro.

[danpo]

Oh, and upon reflection, wtf did I need a 3/1 Hierarch/Birds split for, when if I need to GSZ a flyer I have Scryb Ranger? I think that was just me trying to be too t3chy for my own good.

[Maëlig]

Birds is a decent tutor target vs hive mind. Not a winning strategy by any means, but it can steal a game if you have a good clock / some additional disruption besides it.

[fdiv_bug]

`Grats on the finish, danpo! Hopefully I'll be able to meet both you and Tacosnape in Nashville. I finished 21st at the SCG Open in Atlanta this past weekend, and I was generally pleased with the list I ran:

// Lands
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Misty Rainforest
// Dudes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
1 Eternal Witness
// Spells
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Null Rod
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sundial of the Infinite
2 Choke
2 Enlightened Tutor

I ended up going 6-2-1, with losses to Edgar Flores' Dark Faeries list and a Zoo deck that simply outran me, and my draw was with Tinac Xing and his NO RUG deck that took 5th place.

Thrun was almost always a letdown, and while I adore Mindcensor I never felt like it was great for me. Maybe that was just my luck, I dunno. I got really sick of my first-turn Hierarch/Birds/Zenith-into-Arbor sucking up a Swords/Path/Bolt, and for that reason I'm thinking of replacing the Thrun and Mindcensors with 4 Mental Misstep. I could possibly be talked into replacing the Moms with Misstep instead, but... man, I love Mom.

I'm also going to tweak up the manabase a little. Horizon Canopy is OK, but I think I'm going to replace one with a Stirring Wildwood, in part because it can block one of the most obnoxious fliers in the format -- Vendilion Clique. I also have a foil Petrified Field that I really want to use, and I'm going to try replacing the 4th Wasteland with it. It seems like the Knightable "gimme my land back" could come in handy. Finally, I'm going to take one of the basic Plains and replace it with a 7th fetch for the reason Tacosnape mentioned above, in having the Knight hit the table all big from the start.

Thoughts?

[abel_lg]

`Grats on the finish, danpo! Hopefully I'll be able to meet both you and Tacosnape in Nashville. I finished 21st at the SCG Open in Atlanta this past weekend, and I was generally pleased with the list I ran:

// Lands
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Misty Rainforest
// Dudes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
1 Eternal Witness
// Spells
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Null Rod
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sundial of the Infinite
2 Choke
2 Enlightened Tutor

I ended up going 6-2-1, with losses to Edgar Flores' Dark Faeries list and a Zoo deck that simply outran me, and my draw was with Tinac Xing and his NO RUG deck that took 5th place.

Thrun was almost always a letdown, and while I adore Mindcensor I never felt like it was great for me. Maybe that was just my luck, I dunno. I got really sick of my first-turn Hierarch/Birds/Zenith-into-Arbor sucking up a Swords/Path/Bolt, and for that reason I'm thinking of replacing the Thrun and Mindcensors with 4 Mental Misstep. I could possibly be talked into replacing the Moms with Misstep instead, but... man, I love Mom.

I'm also going to tweak up the manabase a little. Horizon Canopy is OK, but I think I'm going to replace one with a Stirring Wildwood, in part because it can block one of the most obnoxious fliers in the format -- Vendilion Clique. I also have a foil Petrified Field that I really want to use, and I'm going to try replacing the 4th Wasteland with it. It seems like the Knightable "gimme my land back" could come in handy. Finally, I'm going to take one of the basic Plains and replace it with a 7th fetch for the reason Tacosnape mentioned above, in having the Knight hit the table all big from the start.

Thoughts?

You have the same manabase than me except changing a basic forest for Gaea's Cradle. I wouldn't change Horizon Canopy, and it sounds great having 4Mom + 4MM. For me Mom is essential for a Knight not be chumpblocked round after round. Also I play 4 Noble Hierarch and 1 Birds of Paradise to maximize the first turn chances of playing a mana dude. I love Mindcensor but I feel more useful with Vial. Also I found Terravore so useful due to trample, not only for being so big, it's another way to damage the opponent when we haven't an active Mom (due to be killed or to be topdecked so later).

[Cruser]

What you think about this List:

//Lands
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Tropical Island



//Creatures
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Gaddock Teeg


//Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast And Famine
1 Batterskull


//Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith

//Instants
4 Swords To Plowshares





//Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Wing Shards
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
1 Elspeth, Knight-errant
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

[Philipp2293]

Looks pretty solid and not so far out of the box. I don't think you need 4 Savannahs if you run a Tropical, I'd cut the 4th and run a 7th fetchland.

Also, what are everyone's thought on the new flash Deathtouch Viper? Could be playable as a tutorable pseudoremoval?

[Fatal]

IMO not worth a slot. To small no impact on game. We have better dudes in 2 cmc slots. When it's useful ? As 1-on-1 trade on flash ? Its conditional trade and more over it died to any other creatures.

[mordraid]

What you think about this List:

//Lands
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Tropical Island



//Creatures
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Gaddock Teeg


//Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast And Famine
1 Batterskull


//Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith

//Instants
4 Swords To Plowshares





//Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Wing Shards
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
1 Elspeth, Knight-errant
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

I think it's a standard maverick decklist. What do you want us to say to you ?

[Philipp2293]

No impact on game? It's a blocker besides Knight which actually kills attacking critters, not just stalls them. Also, it's recurring removal with SoLaS.

[Draener]

As a one-of ... it seems strictly worse than Thornweald Archer. You will hardly ever draw it, so it's flash ability is largely irrelevant. I don't believe this is worth it, largely because the two main deck to beat's (NO RUG and UW Stoneblade) either have lavamancer or sword of feast and famine to deal with it.

[Philipp2293]

Well, I would play him at least as 2-of IF he proves worthy in testing.

[TossUsToLions]

If you want more removal in the deck, then there are much better options. If you want more creatures in the deck, then there are much better options. I just don't see this guy fitting into this deck at all.

[CorpT]

What is the general consensus on this deck vs NO RUG? I'm going to a tournament where I expect quite a few NO RUG players to be. Is there a particular configuration that is better vs them? Typical sideboard strategies?

Thanks!

[mordraid]

What is the general consensus on this deck vs NO RUG? I'm going to a tournament where I expect quite a few NO RUG players to be. Is there a particular configuration that is better vs them? Typical sideboard strategies?

Thanks!

VS NORUG you usually want a maindeck Gaddock teeg. You also don't want to see grim lavamancer too often, either you misstep or swords him because he can gets really annoying if he hits the board early.

[TossUsToLions]

What is the general consensus on this deck vs NO RUG? I'm going to a tournament where I expect quite a few NO RUG players to be. Is there a particular configuration that is better vs them? Typical sideboard strategies?

Thanks!

This matchup is extremely dependent on your opponent's starting hand, much more so than other matchups. We have many answers (Gaddock Teeg, StP, Mindscensor, outracing with Batterskull, etc.), but sometimes they just have the t3 NO with counter backup. A resolved t1 Lavamancer on their side with a t4 NO is also nearly impossible to beat. Just try and remove their early creatures and try and resolve a Teeg/Mindscensor. An early SFM really helps to outrace Proggy.

I have actually tested Dawnstrider a lot in this matchup, and it's actually kinda awesome. Obviously I GSZ for Teeg first, but if Proggy is already out, GSZing for a Dawnstrider can actually stall until you can outrace the hydra. I've actually won multiple games because of her. Keeping her alive is another problem, though.

[CorpT]

Is Misstep or Mother of Runes better against NO RUG?

I really like the Enlightened Tutor/Artifact/Enchantment sideboard plan as well. Teeg main for sure. Trying to sort out the correct number of Mindcensor and Qasali Pridemage now.

[Kuma]

Is Misstep or Mother of Runes better against NO RUG?

As a NO RUG player, I hate seeing Mother of Runes because if I don't kill it immediately it shuts off a huge part of my deck and makes combat nearly impossible. Each Mental Misstep stops one card. Each Mother of Runes stops many cards.

[CorpT]

As a NO RUG player, I hate seeing Mother of Runes because if I don't kill it immediately it shuts off a huge part of my deck and makes combat nearly impossible. Each Mental Misstep stops one card. Each Mother of Runes stops many cards.

That's kind of what I was thinking too. The ability to stop a Bolt or Fire/Ice on a Teeg/Mindcensor many times is a lot better than doing it once. And pushing damage through a Progenitus sounds pretty good too.

[Draener]

Should have both. Mother of runes only slightly slows down lavamancer, which is the most annoying card ever. I was thinking about testing a mortor pod as a sb against lavamancer, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

[Leftconsin]

I'm not finding many cards more satisfying to counter than lavamancer.

I'm also running an E.Tutor toolbox. Runed Halo has been easy to cast and comes in for any matchup where my opponent has a small number of actual kill cards, or one big hydra that hits very hard. NO RUG also tends to not play or play very few ways to remove enchantments.

[CorpT]

Should have both. Mother of runes only slightly slows down lavamancer, which is the most annoying card ever. I was thinking about testing a mortor pod as a sb against lavamancer, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

I'm not seeing many lists up that are running both Misstep and Mother. How are you squeezing that in?


I'm not finding many cards more satisfying to counter than lavamancer.

I'm also running an E.Tutor toolbox. Runed Halo has been easy to cast and comes in for any matchup where my opponent has a small number of actual kill cards, or one big hydra that hits very hard. NO RUG also tends to not play or play very few ways to remove enchantments.

Runed Halo is a nice one. Solves a lot of problems.

[BlueNevus]

Played in a small tournament today. Observations:

Mother of Runes can win games if she resolves and lives a turn. What more can you ask of a 1-drop. I like leading out with a Hierarch to eat missteps/removal that would have dealt with Mother. 4 Misstep/4 Mother brings down the threat count too much, I think. It's one or the other, sadly.

I won a game through armageddon, humility, smokestax, crucible, and 2 ghostly prisons because of Gaea's cradle. It's rarely produces less than 1 mana, and can allow you to spew out a dominating board presence.

MD Teeg is a no brainer. Wins games. Love this card. This deck has bizarre and versatile Zenith targets for 2: Mr. Teeg, Scavenging Ooze, Scryb Ranger, & Pridemage. I like it.

I think I'm going to use Mindcensor from the SB for a while. It helps against NO and Stoneforge decks(though usually too late in the latter), but so does Mirran Crusader. An exalted or equipped Crusader attacking with protection from Goyf, Progenitus, Germs, Knight, etc. can threaten both decks. Also, this deck needs graveyard-independent threats.

Zenith for Witness is a strong play, especially in post-board games to recover countered/destroyed SB cards. Only takes up 1 spot in the deck and can be Zenithed for. Perfect.

Maze of Ith belongs in the deck as land #23. It can boarded out against a lot of decks, but it helps against many others and can be tutored for. Only 1 slot in the deck.


I didn't play Thrun, Elspeth, or Library. I might try a 1/1/1 split in the future, taking out a land, an equipment, and 1 of the rangers.

I played 23 Land, 4 EQ, Zenith/Swords, and 25 creatures. Pretty standard, pretty fun.

[Maëlig]

I'm not seeing many lists up that are running both Misstep and Mother. How are you squeezing that in?
Cut on the qasali count (down to 2) and other GSZ targets (ranger, teeg and ooze x1 MD are the only ones you can't go without imo), as well as sylvan library. Replace maze by tower of magistrate, which allows you to get away with 21 lands. Keep the 3 mindcensor MD, they're so good. That's what I'm doing at least.

[Fatal]

I just won today GPT Amsterdam

5 rounds:

Enchantress 2-0 - Won by tempo fetching both Pridemages, sided Serenity but never draw it, also used correct Bojuka Bog
BUG Control 2-0 - Life from the Loam won that Match, on second game I ended game with Jace with 9 counters. Blow up all green sources, and exiling GY to avoid loam with bojuka played from hand.
Merfolks 2-1 - one game he won on play having 2 Dismembers, 1 Submerge, Vial, MM, and 4 lords and Mutavault.
Aggro Bant 2-0 - this game was like mirror, but manabase was on my side, he ended game with one land in play.
Team America ID

Top8:
Merfolks 2-0 - Ended game with 7 cards on hand and crushing board position
Sneak Attack 2-0 - This game was really a horror, I won race against Emrakul without Karakas/KotR on table, and second game I won race against progenitus after Emrakul from sneak attack
Turbo Zoo 2-1 Ended game on one life, defending myself by hardcasting MM to Bolt.

List:

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Eternal Witness
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Tropical Island
1 Terravore
4 Mental Misstep
1 Maze of Ith
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Batterskull
1 Rafiq of the Many
2 Aven Mindcensor

// SB
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Wing Shards
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Submerge
2 Life from the Loam
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Serenity
1 Ethersworn Canonist

[TossUsToLions]

Well there goes the question of whether or not we should be running Mental Misstep. Makes my decision a lot easier now...

What does everyone think of Terrravore lately? I don't feel like he is needed with 4 knights and a bajillion other threats, but he is really good in the Knight mirrors.

[Fatal]

Back to Mother of Runes probably and Gaddock MD.

[Grizzly_Bear]

Except for Combo, I also think that one start worrying about counterbalance again. That leads me to question whether it might be a good idea to go back to the vial-builds from Mavericks youth.

This was the latest vial-build I played, approx. winter 2010/2011:

1 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Serra Avenger
4 Tarmogoyf
ENCHANTMENTS (2)
2 Sylvan Library
INSTANTS (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares
ARTIFACTS (6)
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
LANDS (22)
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Forest
1 Plains
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Mishra’s Factory
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

SB depending on meta.

Granted, it might be that GSZ-builds will have CBtop decks largely under control due to the diverse cmc of our threats, but if not, I used to crush any and all countermagic-decks with this list.
What are your thoughts? Anyone still playing GW vial, with our without wayfarer?

[Fatal]

I wouldn't fear CB since GSZ dodge lock and can fetch pridemage to break it.

[Maëlig]

Yeah the return of storm combo is a much bigger worry for us than CB-top. There's not much to do about it unfortunately. I think maverick will take a big hit from the metagame shift.

[DragoFireheart]

Thank you for the insightful post. It really helped to further the discussion of improving the deck. I also like how you quoted me in your post, because your response was very relevant to question that I was asking the Maverick players on this site.

You're asking about running Terravore when you should be worrying about whether to want throw the combo matchups or not.

[Koby]

Without MM I would say to port the deck to 3C Bant Aggro, trimming some of the subpar cards (and consistency), to include Daze and Spell Pierce.

[Asthereal]

No I'd recommend switching to Dark Horizons, spalshing black for discard, Confidants and Vindicate. That seems a lot stronger. Daze can be played around and Spell Pierces will just get Duressed. This deck is all about the initiative, and discarding key cards first and then attacking with big dudes sounds more like the way to go.

But for those who want to stick to the original deck:

Main board:
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
(and 4 Zenith obviously)

Sideboard:
2 Entlightened Tutor
1 Aethersworn Canonist
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Choke
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Mindbreak Trap

This is what I'm trying right now.
Not that I'm winning everything, no way, but auto loss versus the most played deck in my meta seems bad. :P

[TossUsToLions]

Stony Silence/Null Rod are also good E.Tutor bullets against storm. But I wouldn't worry about storm too much (just yet). Give the format some time to react to the bannings before we speculate too much. Most metas didn't even have much storm in their metas in the pre-MM era. If it does get really popular, CB will get big again and GSZ just destroys CB. And there are options, like you guys said, of splashing other colors.

Has anyone actually tried a black splash yet? I've been thinking about it for the last few days, and it seems quite interesting. Bob + light discard and maybe Vindicate/Pulse package seem pretty good.

[Fatal]

Confidants, Thoughtseize/Hymn yes, but mostly it was inconsistant like Junk - just better play Junk.

[lordofthepit]

I put together a Maverick deck yesterday and tested against some friends. I enjoyed playing it, and going forward, I may actively consider Maverick when deciding on a deck for an upcoming tournament.

Do most Maverick builds just play straight up G/W, using hatebears to shore up weak matchups? Or are red (for REB, Ancient Grudge, Punishing Fire, etc.) or blue (for Meddling Mage and Submerge) splashes also standard?

[crow_mw]

Majority of people in this thread play straight GW. Blue is the only splash color I have seen but only for few creatures like RWM or Rafiq.

[TossUsToLions]

Yes, a very a light blue splash (although quite rare) is the only real option that people have been using other than the traditional GW. We've all talked about splashing the other colors but I'm not sure anyone has actually tried it. The inclusion of white already allows answers for pretty much anything and E.Tutor helps to get these answers.

But if you have the duals (which I don't), then feel free to test other colors and let us know the results. Other splashes may work out, I just don't think that they have been properly tested yet.

[DragoFireheart]

Yes, a very a light blue splash (although quite rare) is the only real option that people have been using other than the traditional GW. We've all talked about splashing the other colors but I'm not sure anyone has actually tried it. The inclusion of white already allows answers for pretty much anything and E.Tutor helps to get these answers.

But if you have the duals (which I don't), then feel free to test other colors and let us know the results. Other splashes may work out, I just don't think that they have been properly tested yet.

GWr has no outs to combo decks. High Tide and Storm will be returning.

GWb is basically a Rock deck at this point.

GWu is basically a Bant deck at this point.

I simply don't see this deck being able to survive in the new meta.

[Tacosnape]

Do what I'm doing. Maindeck more hate.

Let's look at this for a minute, though.

Maverick lost several important things with the banning of Mental Misstep.

1. It can't play Mental Misstep anymore. This takes away both its best disruption card and the real strength of the deck, 7-8 ways to keep a creature from getting STP'd.

2. It -shouldn't- play Stoneforge Mystic anymore, at least not more than a couple of them. Batterskull and Sword of Fire and Ice are trash now. Umezawa's Jitte is the only good equipment left in Legacy, and you'll want this to deal with Merfolk, Elf combo, the minor resurgence of Goblins, Sligh, and anything else packing creatures.

3. The metagame's going to be worse for it.

Here's what you need to do to adjust, if you aren't going to splash.

1. Overcompensate for graveyard hate and combo hate. Maindeck a few Canonists and Scavenging Oozes and that Gaddock Teeg, then have more punches ready in your board.

2. Be able to beat the other decks that are going to emerge. Sensei's Divining Top is once again one of the best cards in Legacy. Expect to face Rock. Expect to face Countertop variants. Therefore, Null Rod is probably a solid sideboard choice (Hitting Top and Mox against Rock is better than you think, and it's a boss against UWB Tezzeret), given how good it is against a lot of combo decks and random things like Affinity as well.

3. Maindeck Path to Exiles. Seriously, you need to blow -something- out of the water with this deck. 6-7 STP's and 3 Jittes main will at least mean you aren't worried about aggro.

4. Stop running guys who don't -do- anything. Tarmogoyf, Terravore, go away. Every guy in your deck should do something. Knight of the Reliquary and Green Sun's Zenith give you access to a huge guy if you really need one. The rest of your guys need to be badass utility guys who act as the disruption you don't have otherwise outside of STP and Wasteland.

[CorpT]

GWr has no outs to combo decks. High Tide and Storm will be returning.

GWb is basically a Rock deck at this point.

GWu is basically a Bant deck at this point.

I simply don't see this deck being able to survive in the new meta.

We get it. Everyone will lose to Storm. No one can possibly stop it. We should all just give up and play Storm.

[Tacosnape]

We get it. Everyone will lose to Storm. No one can possibly stop it. We should all just give up and play Storm.

If you'd shelf the hyperbole for a second, we can actually tackle this problem.

Storm is beatable. You can load up on enough hate to just eat Storm. Mother of Runes is the bane of Storm's existence, because they really don't need you to have bounce-proof 2CC hate guys. Having a couple Mindbreak Traps helps, because a lot of Storm players, once they see Gaddock Teeg and Canonist, will try to do -something- before you get a chance to land it.

High Tide is way more difficult. They are the gods of EOT Mass Bouncy, Untap Eat your Face. Mother of Runes is still decent in protection, but High Tide can get around it easier, and High Tide has Force of Will going for it to stop your hate. If High Tide is the best deck in the format, and I'm pretty sure it is once Snapcaster Mage hits (That card is SO STUPID in Tide), then there will be trouble. Also, keep in mind that Snapcaster Mage means you'll generally want Exalted on the board to even be able to safely swing with Gaddock Teeg or Canonist.

[CorpT]

Storm is beatable.

High Tide is way more difficult.

I have no doubt about this. I'm just tired of Drago popping up in every thread crying about how Storm is going to beat everything.

I agree that the extra hate bear/utility guy is the way to go. Frankly, I'm less concerned about High Tide, just because of the cost of Candelabra. That is a pretty significant limiting factor.

[TossUsToLions]

GWr has no outs to combo decks. High Tide and Storm will be returning.

GWb is basically a Rock deck at this point.

GWu is basically a Bant deck at this point.

I simply don't see this deck being able to survive in the new meta.

I am sorry that Mental Misstep got banned. You may want to look into grief counseling. That would be far more productive than going into threads of decks that you don't play telling them the deck sucks because storm is unstoppable.

@Tacosnape - I agree 100% (maybe 95%. I'm not completely convinced that SFM -> Batterskull is dead yet). There are so many answers (hatebears with Mom, E.Tutor targets, Mindscensor, etc.) to stop storm and such. High Tide is a bit tougher and, well, we'll cross that bridge if (when) it arises.

[Draener]

Could a light blue splash for spell pierce and spellstutter sprite out of the board be viable in the new meta? The sprite would also combine with scryb ranger nicely as well creating such plays as t1 hierarch, t2 flash in ranger untap hierarch cast spellstutter sprite.