[EDH] Zur, the Enchanter. Ultra Competitive 1 vs 1

[ivanpei]

Anyway I pretty much felt like posting my recently completed Ultra Competitive 1 vs 1 Zur the Enchanter deck. I picked up a J-foil Zur, so I felt obliged to build the deck. This is as competitive as EDH gets IMO. No chaff at all, trimmed all the fat for as many counterspells/removal/draw spells as I could. Zur is superman, I don't need to run dudes. Blanking Bribery is awesome.

The deck is 100% foil (whatever that can be foil is foil).
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cDPoVn9cjYI/TezfOehb-2I/AAAAAAAAAnk/06flf5Ms7HA/s640/photo.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jeeUy853ntw/TezfUb90_CI/AAAAAAAAAno/eWZnUwtzEiM/s640/photo%2525284%252529.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b9I1GS_ZJqY/TezfVqggPJI/AAAAAAAAAns/dQDFyankQI0/s640/photo%2525283%252529.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oXH6_YVvInA/TezfMZ4IArI/AAAAAAAAAnc/dgjpxIlUxYM/s640/photo%2525282%252529.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AJNkZsaIezk/TezfMqLE79I/AAAAAAAAAng/wX7iAWq5e2c/s640/photo%2525281%252529.JPG

Deck list:

36 lands-
Ancient Tomb
Wasteland
Stripmine
Winding Canyons
Reliquary Tower
Boseiju
Tolaria West
Minamo
Snow Covered Island
Island
Swamp
Plains
9 Fetches
Tundra
Underground Sea
Scrubland
Watery Grave
Hallowed Fountain
Godless Shrine
Underground River
Caves of Coilios
Adarkar Wastes
Sunken Ruins
Mystic Gate
Darkwater Catacombs
Skycloud Expanse
Glacial Fortress
Drowned Catacombs

Only tapped lands are Boseiju and Tolaria West. I don't think bandit lord is worth running. You need to win the counter war first. Resolving a huge draw spell with Boseiju= Game win. Other interesting ones are Reliquary Tower, Winding Canyons (this card is really good, try it, it comes into play untapped too), Stripmine and wasteland.

10 Mana rocks-
Azorius Signet
Dimir Signet
Talisman of Progress
Talisman of Dominance
Expedition Map
Wayfarer's Bauble
Coalition Relic
Darksteel Ingot
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt

Counters 24:

Free ones:

Force of Will
Pact of Negation
Undermine/ Misdirection- (Still undecided, one''s a hard counter and the other is better at winning counter wars/protecting Zur, I prefer Undermine right now because I want to be as flexible as possible and I'm not looking to rush out Zur)
Daze

Hard Counters:
Absorb
Droma's Charm
Mana Drain
Counterspell
Desertion
Cryptic Command
Dismiss
Negate
Cancel
Hinder
Dissipate
Forbid
Muddle the Mixture

Soft counters:
Spell Pierce
Forcespike
Mana Leak
Remand
Miscalculation
Memory Lapse
Condescend

Answers 13:
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Spin into Myth
Condemn
Threachery
Hallowed Burial
Prison Term (Zur Target)
Seal of Doom (Zur Target)
Oblivion Righ (Zur Target)
Aura of Silence (Zur Target)
Dismantling Blow
Vindicate
Maze of Ith

Draw 13:
Fact or Fiction
Skeletal Scrying
Opportunity
Jace's Ingenuity
Esper Charm
Brainstorm
Sensei's Top
Phyrexian Arena (Zur Target, back up in case Necro gets killed before the draw effects resolve)
Necropotence (Best Card, Period)
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Imperial Seal (Enlightened isn't good enough, doesn't do much here, seal is much better).

Protection enchantments are useless. Once Necro lands, you have won. Necro is almost always the best 1st target, even if you are losing life from beats. I have yet to lose a game when Necro is resolved and drawing me cards. If your opponent can kill/counter Zur, they would have done it. If you draw the protection enchantment, you will get blown out to a removal spell in response to the enchantment targeting Zur. I have a different philosphy for competitive 1 on 1 Zur though.

First of, I am a competitive Legacy player who plays EDH on the side. So some of my concepts are ported from Legacy. The way I see most competitive builds are concentrating too much on Zur. Zur is awesome, definitely, but you guys are leaning too much on him. If he never resolves/gets killed all the time/ pacifism effect/ Hallowed burial effect, you get too many dead draws because you run too many Zur dependant enchantments.

If you are beating up on mono coloured casual decks, it doesn't really matter, but my definition of Competitive 1 on 1 is facing Super powered decks like Sharuum, Scion the Ur Dragon and especially Clique. 1 thing I have realised that against powerful blue decks with a million counters and CA, you have to win the counter/card advantage war first, then concentrate on resolving your General. You do not want to all in just for your general to be condemned/hallowed burialed/ spin into mythed or pacifismed/faith's fettered.

I play my Zur deck like how I play a 3 colour good cards deck. I play 24 counterspells, paired with 13 removal spells and 13 draw spells. I play 36 lands with 10 mana acceleration. This leaves 3 loose slots which are Lightning Greaves, Empyrial armor and Jace the MindSculptor (Alternative win condition, I play no dudes to dodge Bribery).

I do not play discard and acceleration that causes card disadvantage like moxes/petals. This is because I play the deck like a control deck, not a combo deck. Discard is bad because even if it helps force Zur through you must assume that your opponent is playing an equally broken deck. If say your opponent is on the play with Scion the Ur Dragon/Sharuum, discard does not stop generals. Counterspells are more flexible and better because it forces your opponent to invest tempo. Say you are playing against a strong deck and you see Jace/Fact or fiction. You take one of them but he can still cast the other. If you had a counterspell instead you have to force them to invest the mana so that you can take it out. Tempo is very important IMO when playing control. Also if you and the opponent are in top deck mode after a huge counter war (both generals cost too much mana after being dealt with multiple times/or in the deck after getting hallowed burialed) and both of you are naked, discard is a dead top deck.

The same applies to quick acceleration. Running out your Zur ASAP is not the best idea against a good player with answers. Sure it pawns casual noobs quickly, but IMO that is not my definition of competitive.

I'm playing this with alot of success. It's flexible, has gas, most of the spells are instants and my opponent never really sticks any threats. I only cast Zur when I have the game in control as my finisher or if I'm in trouble and use him as a hail mary (Zur has so much raw power that he is an awesome hail mary play). Zur is a bail me out general when I lose control or something slips through. His ability to fetch Gas or answers is just ridiculous. Notice there is only 1 card in the deck I wouldn't like to draw, that's Empyrial Armor. Everything else is fine to draw and castable/useful without Zur. Empyrial Armor is a neccessity because it ends games, fast. I don't play mistveil plains too, so if I lose my Empyrial Armor somehow, there's always Jace TMS to wrap up the game. I know I'll ruffle a few feathers with my style of play, but hey, it's effective, so I thought I'd share it.

Let me know what you think. Still haven't played against a max tuned Clique, but I'm pretty sure I can put up a good fight.

[Malchar]

What do you think about using something like standstill or mystic remora? I assume rhystic study is too weak to be included.

[ivanpei]

Ive always wondered why would you fetch still over necro? I did the math and couldn't really come up with a situation where standstill-> necro in 1 vs 1. I run arena over standstill because arena is a back up gas Card which is good to draw. If you are behind and getting beaten down, stills don't help. Also, on an empty board, I don't want to drop stills against another blue player. My deck is low cc, quick, nimble and efficient. If I let my bomby/ gassy opponent develop his mana, more likely than not I am on the losing side. I also don't run manlands to pressure the opponent into cracking.

Same thing applies to mystic remora, sitting and waiting actually benefits the opponent more. Let's put it this way, my zur deck is threshold and I expect to be facing heavy blue (ala landstill/ mono blue control) most of the time. Do I really want to let them develop their mana base? If I were swinging with zur, I'll be fetching necro 99% of the time. Besides even if they answer it, I would have already activated necro 20 times to be infinitely ahead.

Rhystic study is nuts in multiplayer. I've seen it happen. In 1 vs 1 it can be played around and near useless. Have you ever played around daze? Yup, same thing. Arena is just better to draw backup gas card (or in case the opponent embarrassingly names necro with needle).

[Malchar]

Now that I think about it, it makes sense to just get necro all the time. Standstill is pretty situational.

How about gifts ungiven? You have quite a lot of redundancy and tutors, so it seems reasonable. Then again, just drawing cards might be better since the deck has a high threat density anyway. I mostly ask because I'm thinking of making my own deck which might include gifts.

[Zach Tartell]

How about gifts ungiven? You have quite a lot of redundancy and tutors, so it seems reasonable. Then again, just drawing cards might be better since the deck has a high threat density anyway. I mostly ask because I'm thinking of making my own deck which might include gifts.

Super banned bro.

[Malchar]

Ooops, well that makes my decision a lot easier.

[menace13]

Nice deck.

Why aren't you playing Bribery and Acquire?
I always max out on the walkers; Sorrin, Vess, Elspeth and Gideon

Oh and about Necro;
Even if something happens to Necro before the put into hand Trigger resolves, you still get the Triggers for each card regardless of it being removed from play.

[ivanpei]

Thanks and Yup, you still get the cards even if necro bites the dust. Some decks can still recover from a huge necro (though unlikely) so arena is a good backup card, though not compulsory. I try to minimize high cc non-instant spells. If I were going to tapout to play something, it would be for zur. None of the cards other than Jace is more busted than casting zur. Also I want to have as many counterspells as possible because when you draw 20 cards of your first necro, I want to have the highest chance of drawing multiple counterspells.

[hyc8028]

Have you consider Mana Vortex?

[menace13]

Thanks and Yup, you still get the cards even if necro bites the dust. Some decks can still recover from a huge necro (though unlikely) so arena is a good backup card, though not compulsory. I try to minimize high cc non-instant spells. If I were going to tapout to play something, it would be for zur. None of the cards other than Jace is more busted than casting zur. Also I want to have as many counterspells as possible because when you draw 20 cards of your first necro, I want to have the highest chance of drawing multiple counterspells.
I'm not so sure that the other Walkers aren't board warping, while not as powerful as Jace and Zur, they can be bombs. Even Baby Jace acting as a personal Howling Mine is a fine play. But I am convinced Bribery should be banned. It is like a Tinker for 5 mana that grabs their best finisher.

My last 5 Bribery targets have been; Jin turn 4, Kozilek turn 6, Terastodon(helped me clear their Bombs), Blightsteel!!!! and Consecrated Sphinx. All of them helped me win the game in a few turns if not right away.

I like the 2cc artifact mana sources like Coldsteel Heart, Sky/Charcoal/Marble Diamond over Ingot, Map and Bauble. I also run Mind Twist anywhere I can.

[dsck]

My humble opinion:

Minus
Path to Exile - You dont want to accelerate your opponent in this format
Undermine and Absorb are a bit too costy counters
Signets
Coalition Relic
Darksteel Ingot
Painlands (these arent necessary)

Plus
Disrupt
Ancestral Vision
Back to Basics
Thirst for Knowledge
Crucible of Worlds (+ Bojuka Bog, manlands such as mishra's factory, faerie conclave, Creeping Tar Pit)
Tainted Pact (instant speed demonic tutor!)
Intuition (+ Flash of Insight, Deep Analysis, Mystical Teachings)
Misdirection
Rewind
Thwart
Legacy's Allure
Vedalken Shackless
Future Sight

[Malchar]

Future Sight is one of my personal favorite cards. However, it kind of sucks to have to tap 5 mana at sorcery speed to cast it. Also, having a counterspell sitting on top isn't exactly tricks. However, the card advantage that you get is insane, especially when you can cast card draw spells. I would actually suggest trying magus of the future since you could cast it at instant speed off winding canyons.

Legacy's allure seems too slow or too easy for the opponent to play around. Seems like ancestral vision would be good though.

[ivanpei]

Ancestral visions seems strong. Thanks for the suggestions. Back to basics really hurts myself though. I used to play Crucible but realized I need a quick ramp artifact more. Rewind and Thwart are interesting, will look into it. The 2cc CIPT artifacts are useful if you aim for a T3 Zur, which is not what I aim to do. Also, they make only 1 colour and that's less useful. Usually I don't cast my signets/talisman on T2 because I want to have counter mana up. I usually cast Them T3. As for my 3cc rocks, they come down on T4 and I still have 2 mana up for the counterspell. Ingot and Bauble are cuttable/replaceble but Relic is too good. It makes 2 mana on the Turn you are casting Zur or whenever you need it.

Bribery is a huge bomb, I think I may cut some removal for it as it is just that broken. Baby Jace is ok, but the other Walkers I'm not sure about. Mana Vortex seems a bit weak in 1vs1. Both sides lose out, why would you fetch it over Necro into a bunch of counters again?

Thanks for the suggestions guys, keep em coming.

[dsck]

You dismissed Tainted Pact :(

[Malchar]

Mana vortex would be good if you were going to rush to zur and go for a quick lockdown. You lose land too, but you can still sneak things into play with zur. That said, I don't think it would work that well for a draw-go control deck.
Also, not sure if this is any good, but I was thinking of using unwinding clock in my multiplayer draw-go deck. Not sure if it would help much in your 1v1 deck though.

[Astrix]

Hello i wanted to ask the OP whats his winning plan.I mean after he draws a bunch of cards what he
wants to do most of the time.
Also can you tell me what is this deck compared to an Oona combo deck ?

[ivanpei]

Tainted pact might remove necro/empyrial armor/ tutorable enchantment, making the deck a sad panda. :(

@ Astrix. Bunch of cards in hand + zur with empyrial armor= very quick clock. The plan is to establish control, Drop zur, get necro, draw alot of cards, establishing a wall of counters and finally fetching empyrial armor for the beat down. If you hit a reliquary tower or a tutor for reliquary tower, empyrial armor kills even quicker.

This deck can afford to run alot of counters. That's the primary plan. I've tested against sharuum and it could never go off against my wall of counters and removal. That's the plan of the deck basically. Establish control/disrupt, drop zur, win. Zur is just insane when it fetches necro.

[Astrix]

Ok its a cool plan but aren't you kinda vulnerable against fast decks?have u thougt of adding wrath of god and generaly more removal?
Also i think u could play Library of the alexandria since u have no budget problems.Or its banned with the rules u play?

[ivanpei]

It's banned :( That would have been a great card. I play a 1 off hallowed burial to search for with my tutors. If someone tries to aggro me out, I just spit out a quick Zur and I should get there. I mean Zur fetches removal every turn. That's pretty hard to stop. I have Seal of Doom, Oring and Prison Term to lockdown my opponent's creatures. That's also another reason to run Zur, he's a broken answer as well.

These stuff are banned:

Balance
Biorhythm
Braids, Cabal Minion
Channel
Coalition Victory
Fastbond
Gifts Ungiven
Karakas
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Library of Alexandria
Lion's Eye Diamond
Limited Resources
Painter's Servant
Panoptic Mirror
Protean Hulk
Recurring Nightmare
Riftsweeper
Staff of Domination
Sway of the Stars
Upheaval
Time Vault
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Worldgorger Dragon

Power is banned too, except Timetwister.

[phonics]

How effective do you find the soft counters like Force Spike, Spell Pierce and Daze? How often do people get caught, or do you often use it to force them to tap out some more? They seem like they would be weak when they aren't in your opening hand or drawn in the early game.

[ivanpei]

Tax counters are surprisingly effective in edh 1 on 1. The curve is really high and people often don't play around 1 offs like daze/pierce etc. It's also very useful in counter wars because usually the opponent will leave exact mana up for a counter spell. The early game in 1 on 1 is very important because once you stick a zur and necro, you no longer care for dead draws.

Also generals get + 2 mana cost every time they die. You will see a lot of people paying exacties mana for their general later in the game.

[menace13]

I just played Preator's Grasp today and the card is something you might want to look into. Grasp raises the threat count and grabs any answer you need provided opponent has it in deck and you can play it.

It was everything I thought it would be. Kind of like a Demonic Tutor that puts the opponents best card in exile for you to play it when ready.... The first one took his Bribery(Iona) and then I YWilled and recast it to take Jace2.0 just incase he got rid of the one I had in play.

Might be a bit biased after using it, but omgwtfbbq!1eleven!

[Der Endboss]

Preator's Grasp might be a pretty good edh card, but don't fits in this build. it is not instant speed. and you might find not the card you need

[Der Endboss]

what do you think of:
mental misstep
impulse
preordain
hobble
turn aside
hindering light
countersquall
mortyfy
tainted pact
story circle
and necromancy
???

[socialite]

Signets in a competitive deck? :X

[John Cox]

I just into this format today and I'm wondering why no one plays doomsday. My normal piles are

<top>
-------
ideas unbound
leyline of the void
helm of obedience
dark ritual
mana vault
---------
<bottom>
Note* -I don't have a meditate If I did it would replace Idea's unbound
or

<top>
brainstorm
shelldock isle
blight steel colossus
cloud of faeries
force of will
<bottom>

[ultimoman]

I guess its too situational and risky to play for what is entails.

Does anyone use Teferi in Zur? I imagine he could be quite helpful against control in making sure that we can successfully land Zur. If they counter Teferi then thats one less counter for Zur and the may be tapped out as well.

Edit: You could also perhaps benefit from Isochron Scepter. If can prove very helpful if it you can get it to stick.

[Tammit67]

I just into this format today and I'm wondering why no one plays doomsday. My normal piles are

<top>
-------
ideas unbound
leyline of the void
helm of obedience
dark ritual
mana vault
---------
<bottom>
Note* -I don't have a meditate If I did it would replace Idea's unbound
or

<top>
brainstorm
shelldock isle
blight steel colossus
cloud of faeries
force of will
<bottom>

Most people don't probably because its only really effective in 1v1 play, and you are so all-in on the spell after DD resolving that some people aren't comfortable with that. I think it is pretty underused though. The second pile is a little risky, as you have to hope for no counter, no removal, no lots of opposing creatures. Seems very conditional, especially with all the bribery going around

[John Cox]

Yeah, I took the second pile out of my list, but still use the first. Even without doomsday helm+leyline wins games. Doomsday is my "go to" card for 1v1, while Ad Nauseam is what I use for multiplayer.

[KamahlFoK]

If you're going to make a competitive 1v1 deck, at least adhere to the french banlist. Your best card (Necropotence) is banned. As is Sol Ring, and Sensei's Divining Top.

[Tammit67]

If you're going to make a competitive 1v1 deck, at least adhere to the french banlist. Your best card (Necropotence) is banned. As is Sol Ring, and Sensei's Divining Top.

French banlist? There is only one real ban list: http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

[KamahlFoK]

French banlist? There is only one real ban list: http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

The EDH format is not normally built to be competitive, nor was it created with 1v1 in mind. The French banlist (and rules, only difference being 30 life instead of 40) is designed with 1v1 in mind, and takes out "jump start" cards like sol ring and serra ascendant. You should adhere to it in terms of 1v1 tournaments you organize. http://www.magictrade.org/magic-forum-sujet-la_ban_list_2011_pour_le_commander_1v1_eclaircissements-1222162-0-0.html

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

French banlist? There is only one real ban list: http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

Fuckin' A!

The French banned list a joke. Actually, EDH is a damn joke. I fail to see how banning top/sol ring/mana crypt and allowing people to play shit like Tolarian Acdemy, LoA, and Balance is remotely fair. But then again, it's a casual format, so play whatever you feel like.

[KamahlFoK]

Fuckin' A!

The French banned list a joke. Actually, EDH is a damn joke. I fail to see how banning top/sol ring/mana crypt and allowing people to play shit like Tolarian Acdemy, LoA, and Balance is remotely fair. But then again, it's a casual format, so play whatever you feel like.

All of those are banned, the French banlist is in addition to the normal one. Try reading it. Or, if you can't, you could always use Google translate.

[Karhumies]

You are running Hinder, but not Spell Crumple. Is there a specific reason for this?

[o13g]

Dispel!

I cant emphasize enough how strong this card is in competitive EDH!

[Lemuria]

Necropotence, Propaganda and Ghostly Prison are amazing targets for Zur as well. Have you considered them?

[ivanpei]

Am playing necro and spell crumple. Haven't updated the list after commander decks were released. Will post it when I have the time. Also added command tower, misdirection and disrupt. I don't dig propaganda effects, solitary confinement is better. But usually if you are being swamped, something is wrong. An oring a turn/ infinite counter spells should be enough to win you the game. This list is assuming 1 vs 1 competitive. Confinement/propaganda/prison are very bad cards to draw, so I don't run em.

[Sims]

The EDH format is not normally built to be competitive, nor was it created with 1v1 in mind. The French banlist (and rules, only difference being 30 life instead of 40) is designed with 1v1 in mind, and takes out "jump start" cards like sol ring and serra ascendant. You should adhere to it in terms of 1v1 tournaments you organize. http://www.magictrade.org/magic-forum-sujet-la_ban_list_2011_pour_le_commander_1v1_eclaircissements-1222162-0-0.html

Why? Why should we adhere to it? It's not an official format banned list and if I ended up organizing a 1v1 tournament locally instead of our Pod events I wouldn't bother using the French list. I don't agree with the banning of Sol Ring and any of the fast mana cards, they're part of what makes EDH fun for a lot of people.

I understand the premise behind it, but don't agree with it.

[Bryant Cook]

Am playing necro and spell crumple. Haven't updated the list after commander decks were released. Will post it when I have the time. Also added command tower, misdirection and disrupt. I don't dig propaganda effects, solitary confinement is better. But usually if you are being swamped, something is wrong. An oring a turn/ infinite counter spells should be enough to win you the game. This list is assuming 1 vs 1 competitive. Confinement/propaganda/prison are very bad cards to draw, so I don't run em.

I'm looking to give a friend a Zur list, this looks solid enough, is there an updated list? (I tried PMing you, clean out your inbox)

[menace13]

Playing a lot of EDH online lately. Only 2 creatures are Snappy and Clique. Thopter Foundry combo, and Jace are the alternate wins because swinging with Zur 21 times is kinda slow or in case Zur gets tucked/locked/stolen a millionth random way. Crucible, and Strip lock is possible but rare. Average mana cost is 2.07.

Necro-tutor with every free counterspell gets boring after a while, and so I don't play it as much as other decks despite how powerful Zur is.

[Artifact]
1 Azorius Signet
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dimir Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Thopter Foundry

[Creature]
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique

[Land]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Kor Haven
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunken Ruins
2 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tolaria West
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath

[Planeswalker]
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

[Enchantment]
1 Aura of Silence
1 Necropotence
1 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Seal of Doom

[Instant]
1 Brainstorm
1 Condemn
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Daze
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Flusterstorm
1 Foil
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 Force Spike
1 Hinder
1 Intuition
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Mana Tithe
1 Memory Lapse
1 Mental Misstep
1 Miscalculation
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Negate
1 Pact of Negation
1 Path to Exile
1 Remand
1 Spell Crumple
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Thwart
1 Vampiric Tutor

[Sorcery]
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Duress
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mind Twist
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Terminus
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate

[Offler]

Contamination?

Also you got my respect. Especially because of Spin into Myth. The deck is really impressive.

[mossivo1986]

So heres the combo version I play

1-9: Snow-Covered Island
10: Tundra
11: Underground Sea
12: Scrubland
13: Hallowed Fountain
14: Watery Grave
15: Seachrome Coast
16: Darkslick Shores
17: Flooded Strand
18: Polluted Delta
19: Misty Rainforest
20: Scalding Tarn
21: Bloodstained Mire
22: Verdent Catacombs
23: Command Tower
24: City of Brass
25: Sunken Ruins
26: Ancient Tomb
27: Mikokoru, Center of Sea
28: Tolaria West
29: Academy Ruins

30: Chrome Mox
31: Mox Diamond
32: Mox Opal
33: Lotus Petal
34: Mana Crypt
35: Sol Ring
36: Mana Vault
37: Land Tax
38: Dark Ritual
39: High Tide
40: Grim Monolith
41: Talisman of Progress
42: Talisman of Dominance
43: Azorious Signet
44: Dimir Signet
45: Basalt Monolith
46: Turnabout
47: Gilded Lotus
48: Mind over Matter

49: Brainstorm
50: Ponder
51: Preordain
52: Sensei's Divining Top

53: Dark Confidant
54: Scroll Rack
55: Phyrexian Arena
56: Necropotence
57: Frantic Search
58: Intuition
59: Thirst for Knowledge
60: Timetwister
61: Yawgmoth's Will
62: Fact or Fiction
63: Jace, the Mind Sculpter
64: Ad Nauseum
65: Memory Jar
66: Future Site
67: Magus of the Future
68: Time Spiral
69: Recurring Insight
70: Mind's Desire
71: Blue Sun's zenith

72: Vampiric Tutor
73: Imperial Seal
74: Mystical Tutor
75: Enlightened Tutor
76: Demonic Tutor
77: Merchent Scroll
78: Muddle the Mixture
79: Grim Tutor
80: Fabricate
81: Trinket Mage

82: Duress
83: Thoughtseize
84: Spell Pierce
85: Mana Drain
86: Force of Will
87: Misdirection
88: Pact of Negation
89: Mind Twist

90: Chain of Vapor
91: Rushing River
92: Tidespout Tyrant
93: Terminus

94: Pithing Needle
95: Mana Severence
96: Power Artifact
97: Solitary Confinement
98: Snapcaster Mage

99: Goblin Charbelcher

100: Zur, the Enchanter

[Arew]

Seconding an updated list, I'm very much interested in this style of Zur deck.

[gzeiger]

I like your deck. This is the only one I can find in the entire internet that isn't completely and obviously garbage. However, I'm looking for thoughts on how to build for competitive (ie a one-time event with moderately significant prizes and no reward structure other than eliminating other players and winning the table) multiplayer - a tournament with pods of four players each round. Obviously some changes are in order. I wouldn't play Spin Into Myth, for example, as it's too mana intensive and too narrowly targeted.

I'm not sure if it's going to be profitable to load up on more cheap (conditional) counters, or if I'll need to include cheap answers of other kinds. It may be that Delay or Mana Leak is just fine against a Hermit Druid or Show and Tell deck, but I can imagine wanting to be able to run Zur out fast significantly more often if I'm faced with multiple opposing combo decks - we may just pass the window where it's possible to tap four and survive. Any thoughts on what you'd change?

[Bosshux]

Now that I think about it, it makes sense to just get necro all the time. Standstill is pretty situational.

How about gifts ungiven? You have quite a lot of redundancy and tutors, so it seems reasonable. Then again, just drawing cards might be better since the deck has a high threat density anyway. I mostly ask because I'm thinking of making my own deck which might include gifts.


So just to clarify, without something like reliq tower, its not possible to get more than 7 cards in hand from necropotence right? The new version of necro says they go in your hand at the beginning of the end step so you still have to discard at the end of turn? A friend pointed this out to me. I guess I was wrong to swing with zur grabbing necro, drawing 25 and swinging next turn grabbing empyrial armor on the stack killing him?

[kombatkiwi]

So just to clarify, without something like reliq tower, its not possible to get more than 7 cards in hand from necropotence right? The new version of necro says they go in your hand at the beginning of the end step so you still have to discard at the end of turn? A friend pointed this out to me. I guess I was wrong to swing with zur grabbing necro, drawing 25 and swinging next turn grabbing empyrial armor on the stack killing him?

You're correct, that play doesn't work

[Sempai]

Did we ever get an updated list for this?

Very excited to see the 2015 version.

[TestMonkey]

For a deck that is mentioned so often there is very little discussion about him.

Here is the combo/control version I am currently running. Designed to fight Derevi which can be a really bad matchup for Zur if you're relying on Zur activating.

General (1)
1x Zur the Enchanter

Creature (3)
1x Dark Confidant
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Trinket Mage

Artifact (18)
1x Azorius Signet
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Chrome Mox
1x Dimir Signet
1x Expedition Map
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Mox Diamond
1x Mox Opal
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Spellbook
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Progress

Instant (28)
1x Angel's Grace
1x Arcane Denial
1x Boomerang
1x Brainstorm
1x Cabal Ritual
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Counterspell
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Dark Ritual
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Force of Will
1x Frantic Search
1x High Tide
1x Mana Drain
1x Misdirection
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Pact of Negation
1x Pongify
1x Rapid Hybridization
1x Rewind
1x Silence
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Turnabout
1x Vampiric Tutor

Sorcery (17)
1x Bribery
1x Cataclysm
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Duress
1x Exsanguinate
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Imperial Seal
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Reanimate
1x Terminus
1x Thoughtseize
1x Timetwister
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Windfall
1x Yawgmoth's Will

Enchantment (7)
1x Bitterblossom
1x Contamination
1x Land Tax
1x Necromancy
1x Necropotence
1x Power Artifact
1x Prison Term

Land (26)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Darkslick Shores
1x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
9x Island
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Scrubland
1x Seachrome Coast
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Tolaria West
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Watery Grave

[ivanpei]

Looks like a multiplayer combo kill version rather than a volton one. I like it, looks good. Zur is just simply a walking necropotence or power artifact.

I also have created the ultimate 1 card combo with Zur: Doomsday.

Have Doomsday in hand, if Zur lives and comes back untapped, you win on the spot. Swing with Zur, get Necro. Cast Doomsday. Pile is: Flash, Lab Maniac, Street Wraith, Pact of Negation, Force of Will/ any counter.

So basically you draw out your deck with Necro, pass the turn, get the cards. During the next players upkeep, cast flash, drop Lab Maniac with Force/Pact backup, then cycle street wraith FTW.

It's a super nasty 1 card combo with Zur as a general. Costs Zur in play, Doomsday in hand and 6 mana. With rituals and ramp, it's really easy to pull this off early.

[TestMonkey]

Good suggestion. I've been considering adding Doomsday so that I can increase my threat density. Extract, Jester's Cap and Sadistic Sacrament has been problems in the past. So far I have it down to adding only 3 cards to make it work. Breakthrough, Laboratory Maniac and Doomsday. Doomsday to pile of Breakthrough, Gitaxian Probe, Reanimate, Lab Maniac and whatever card. Wins the following turn for 2UB. Kinda sketchy because it doesn't have built in counter back up but for the addition of only three card it's nice. What to cut though...

[TheZurGod]

I was happy to see intelligent discussion about Doomsday
as I've been interested in trying it. I own
the best version of Zur I've encountered. I've
travelled far and wide and wreck every EDH league, GP,
SCG OPEN EDH event in existence. I've won around $2,000
in prizes with this broken general. I'd like to point out my strategy.
33 land, EVERY good search card: tutors, lim-dul's vault, Tainted Pact,
Demonic Consultation, Muddle the Mixture, etc. I win primarily by:
swinging with Zur - fetching Mana Vortex, Contamination/Bitterblossom,
fetching Power Artifact to suit up a Monolith and either Exsanguinating or
Stroke of Genius (myself - play Talisman, play Laboratory Maniac, play
Sensei's Divining Top, WIN).
To win an uncut sheet of Theros Rares/Mythics at GP Louisville,
I played Lab Maniac turn one with Mana Crypt and used Demonic Consultation/
Tainted Pact at upkeep of turn 2 to deck myself and win.
I am THEE Zur expert. I don't lose 1v1. I don't lose multiplayer. I don't fear
another general. I win. A lot.

[kombatkiwi]

I'm not a huge fan of Doomsday or Labman. Once you have untapped with Zur winning from that point is usually academic anyway. You don't need additional combos that only work after you've fetched up a Necro and are essentially dead cards beforehand. (Weird consult play above notwithstanding). Same thing goes for stuff like Exsanguinate/Stroke. Admittedly this is somewhat of a metagame call and also whether you prefer 1v1 or multi but it's so hard to lose with a Necro in play (even if you have to go for your D-Sphere or something first) that it just doesn't seem worth it.

The one combo I do like to play is RIP/Helm
- Only needs 2 cards in play and 2 slots in your deck (Power Artifact + Monolith + X is 3 cards in play, Doomsday is a "one card combo" but causes you to brick on bizarre stuff like Labman and Flash)
- Zur finds half of it
- Only 1 slot is a dud because RIP is reasonable disruption on its own (nice Hermit Druid bruh)

[TestMonkey]

My meta is pretty hateful so the while the "Zur swings and you've won scenario" is true most of the time (it does whiff from time to time) it doesn't happen consistently. Due to the Zur paradox (wanting to get out Zur quickly makes him difficult to protect and allowing him to be protected makes it hard to get him out quickly) he gets targeted a lot. Whether its Gilded Drake, Derevi with sac outlet tapping him down before every combat or just good old-fashioned removal, I plan for Zur to get hated on and try not to rely on him turning sideways.

My opponents have started putting in cards like Extract which can cripple the deck because while the it is very strong if a few key cards are removed you're force into playing kingmaker for the rest of the game. Which sucks. Thus why I'm putting in additional win conditions.

I'm not the hugest fan of Doomsday either but I'm just experimenting with secondary win conditions. I don't use RIP/Helm because it's in conflict with me using one of the most broken cards ever printed in Magic, Yawgmoth's Will. Also it's always awkward when you kill one opponent, pass the turn and try to look innocent. I early on used Goblin Charbelcher/Mana Severence and usually could only got to kill one opponent before the piece was dealt with and there was a giant target put on my forehead.

[TestMonkey]

Started testing Monastery Mentor as the secondary win condition and so far it seems very promising.