Modern is official (this time for real!) [Archive]

KobeBryan

08-12-2011, 12:33 AM

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/155

Read it yourselfs - Modern will be replacing Extended on the next Pro-Tour.
The Banned list (copy pasted):
Ancestral Vision
Ancient Den
Bitterblossom
Chrome Mox
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Seat of the Synod
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Stoneforge Mystic
Sword of the Meek
Tree of Tales
Umezawa's Jitte
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Vault of Whispers

Looks interesting!

This looks like a pretty boring format without a lot of combo enablers.

GGoober

08-12-2011, 12:38 AM

the article mentioned their philosophy, which in TLDR

1) We don't like combo decks (crap ton on the banlist)
2) We hope there are no dominant decks (reason why Bitterblossom is banned).
3) We kinda don't like blue to dominant (Visions, MM, Jace)

I think WotC people like playing aggro decks lol.

Madmaniac21

08-12-2011, 12:41 AM

They don't want to allow turn 3 combo decks? Ban mental misstep?

Lol at this format.

Being forced to attack to win is zzzzzzzzzzzz

sporenfrosch1411

08-12-2011, 12:42 AM

Yeah, WotC seems to be into the "i drop my creature, then its your turn, then on my next turn i will attack you" scheme.

Beware of broken things! A player loosing is unfun! ....wait. In a 1on1, isn't there a looser anyway?

:trollface:

On a serious note, i don't see why one would ban mental misstep....

plus_ten

08-12-2011, 12:47 AM

On a serious note, i don't see why one would ban mental misstep....

Very pissed off at this blatant attempt to kill off legacy... MM warped legacy and turned it extremely competitive. They clearly don't want kids being scared out of Modern. Have they ever banned an answer card like this? (Aside from Mana Drain, which really is both answer and utility).

On a side note, this does look like we will be getting Bob and goyf reprints in the future as this format may well be made with a low price of entry in mind.

Antonius

08-12-2011, 12:47 AM

Idiots.

"Any card with the modern face printed is legal...

Oh, not Swords to Plowshares (that duel deck shit doesn't count)
Oh, not Polluted Delta (that Judge Foil shit doesn't count)
Oh, not Mox Diamond (that From the Vault Shit doesn't count)

...But, btw, Sword of Fire and Ice counts (that Jude Foil shit is OK)"

Wonderful, now I'll never get to play some of my favorite cards from IN, OD, MM and ON blocks--which were, by and large, less busted and more balanced than Mirrodin alone.

GJ on going full retard once more, WotC.

Overextended would have been way way better. I'm sick of this shit.

Anyone else notice how they deliberately cut the sets legal so that Counterspell would still be out of the picture?

soltakar

08-12-2011, 12:53 AM

This banned list makes the format even shittier than I originally thought it was going to be. It really is just going to be standard+. There is no way I will ever play this format in this form.

Tammit67

08-12-2011, 12:54 AM

mental misstep

Lol, what?

KobeBryan

08-12-2011, 12:55 AM

Very pissed off at this blatant attempt to kill off legacy... MM warped legacy and turned it extremely competitive. They clearly don't want kids being scared out of Modern. Have they ever banned an answer card like this? (Aside from Mana Drain, which really is both answer and utility).

On a side note, this does look like we will be getting Bob and goyf reprints in the future as this format may well be made with a low price of entry in mind.

Modern won't be able to kill legacy. Its more like standard now than it is legacy with the ban list. there will only be a couple of dominating decks and nothing as diverse as legacy.

I wonder whether they will reprint bob and goyf.

(nameless one)

08-12-2011, 01:09 AM

CorpT

08-12-2011, 01:11 AM

Tom LaPille: the same guy who thought NPH would fix Standard. If he had anything to do with this, it is doomed to be a failure.

sporenfrosch1411

08-12-2011, 01:11 AM

mtgmodern.com looks like there could happen something, but it is really "low" at the moment.

Leftconsin

08-12-2011, 01:12 AM

They really aren't taking any chances on control or combo having any strength in Modern. I'm also bothered by how the article gets to Bitterblossom and openly says they can't ban more than one card without at least one of them being blue. Do WotC people like aggro? Yes. Very yes.

TossUsToLions

08-12-2011, 01:17 AM

At first I was pissed at the banned list, because I was interested in investing some time in this brand new format. Now, after seeing the ban list, I am even happier because now I know that Modern is no threat to Legacy. Long live the greatest format ever (until people run out of money and can't afford $500 duals)!

Jonathan Alexander

08-12-2011, 01:27 AM

I really like that they banned Ancestral Vision because it's good with cheap countermagic.

Plague Sliver

08-12-2011, 01:34 AM

Sorry to repeat this, but WOW WHAT A SHITTY BANLIST.

I guess I didn't lose out much from not stockpiling shocklands.

TkDodo

08-12-2011, 01:41 AM

Idiots.

"Any card with the modern face printed is legal...

Oh, not Swords to Plowshares (that duel deck shit doesn't count)
Oh, not Polluted Delta (that Judge Foil shit doesn't count)
Oh, not Mox Diamond (that From the Vault Shit doesn't count)

...But, btw, Sword of Fire and Ice counts (that Jude Foil shit is OK)"

So how is this really with duel deck and similar reprints that have the modern frame? Like Brainstorm or the commander cards? Are they legal? Not that I'm ever going to play that format with that banned list, just curious..
I assumed this whole "every card with a modern frame" was made to help kiddies know which cards are legal just by looking at them..now making a lot of exceptions doesn't make a lot of sense.

Tacosnape

08-12-2011, 01:46 AM

That's...a terrible banned list. I no longer care about this format.

Koby

08-12-2011, 01:52 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I was saying Modern is joke all week long. Now I can actually point to why it's so.

R&D really needs to start playing Legacy on a more regular basis to understand what kinds of mistakes they've been putting out in recent history.

The best part was when I got to MM, and realized we're being trolled.

crovakiet

08-12-2011, 01:57 AM

SFM IS BANNED!

Good call though, I don't think Extended/Modern has enough tools to deal with SFM. GGTroll still being on the banned list makes me think it's got to do with what Innastrad is providing, which in some good news, hints that Legacy Dredge could have some beneficial potential cards in Innastrad.

Banned list is looking fairly decent, although I think that Bitterblossom could come off (kept in check by Punishing Fires anyway).

Aether Vial is legal?? O_O Let's do some Merfolks (replace Wasteland with Tec Edges lol)

@Ben: Play All-in-Red, don't worry about shocks :P

Don't think Merfolk will really be that strong considering that the metagame now will look like 12post, zoo, and Bant...all decks that will probably make a traditional merfolk deck ported over to Modern cry big, salty tears. Remember Merfolk likes to see blue decks on the other side of the table...and I kind of doubt we will see a lot of blue control decks as the opponent with the banned list as it is...

JACO

08-12-2011, 02:07 AM

I can see them reprinting Onslaught Fetchlands.

On the other note, what's with the Shockland Craze. Yes I get that they're fetchable and have basic land types but I think decks such as control decks are better off running Filterlands.

Does anyone know an active Modern site? I want to develop a Modern MUD (if that makes sense) aka Forgemaster.dec.
At Eternal Central (www.eternal-central.com) we are getting ready for a revamp, and will be doing FULL support of the Modern format, including articles and a forum (forum is already up; no activity yet obviously so let's grow it!). I am in the process of writing a Modern article that should be up Monday!

ivanpei

08-12-2011, 02:32 AM

Holy shot goyf is the single best card in modem right now. It's gonna be a 100 dollar card. Zoo and 12 post are the only tier 1 left. Blue or raped hard, but look for sleepers on gifts and fact or fiction. Those are the he's card draw left.

Btw junk is so awesome in thing format. Gsz, tarmo, kotr, bob and discard in one deck? Holy cow overpowered much? Junk basically lost vindicate, hymn and mox diamond. You can play maelstrome pulse any tidehollow sculler though.

bakofried

08-12-2011, 02:36 AM

I'm definitely interested in seeing where this will go. People hoping for Budget Legacy or Legacy Lite are probably disappointed, but that shouldn't be one format's role, to make up for another. Keep in mind, they did say they may have overbanned and that stuff may be taken off accordingly. Without knowing anything about how it will play out, i'm in a "wait and see" mode.

Final Fortune

08-12-2011, 02:52 AM

They banned Golgari Grave Troll? Fucking lol.

ivanpei

08-12-2011, 02:53 AM

Wanna play combo? At least there's still dragonstorm :)

sco0ter

08-12-2011, 02:55 AM

Wow, I didn't expect such a large banned list.

Looks like Big Naya Zoo with Punishing Fire or Jund Midrange is in a good position. And the totally made Affinity unplayable. :( I would have loved to see an old fair Broodstar Affinity deck playable.

264505

08-12-2011, 02:55 AM

12 'post Tooth and Nail looks to be one of the best strategies. As a result, LD Zoo looks like it could be along with the standard zoo options. As for combo options, Hive Mind is still (mostly) there and Living End is a sower, sightly worse version of Hypergenesis. Dragonstorm still works too I bet. A Rockish build should show up, it always seems to and Aggro Loam keeps most of its major components that it had when it was effective in the old extended from 5 or 6 years ago while adding a few new cards. It looks like it could be a healthy format. That being said, I think I am going to update my MOTL have wants and look for Dragonstorm stuff while they are still cheap.

sco0ter

08-12-2011, 02:56 AM

Wanna play combo? At least there's still dragonstorm :)

Grapeshot / Ignite Memories worked, too in Standard a few years ago.

Comrade

08-12-2011, 03:07 AM

WotC's target demographic is awkward middle school kids to young adults just a hair shy of being able to buy alcohol. These are the people that buy and open all the packs. These are the people that make up most FNM nights at local stores.These are also the same people that think a counterspell or a combo deck is "cheating".

Gas prices are through the roof; the cost of food keeps going up; everyone is out of work, but people are buying magic cards left and right. When things have gone to shit, people turn to entertainment to take their mind off the pertinent issues. So WotC is doing all they can to hurl more product and incentives to those that keep them in business.

Hence the dumbed down new "intuitive" rules. Or a shit tonne of new, special, super, fun, awesome, limited, rare, ultra, foil collector's sets and duel decks and the like. Or this cheap and easy kiddy version of legacy. Maximizing profit is all that this comes down to, as that will ALWAYS be their primary concern.

dontbiteitholmes

08-12-2011, 03:11 AM

Mental Misstep? What are they thinking?
#1 - A card that any color can play that counters itself...
#2 - In a format where the best lands and the only fetchable duals burn you for 2 or CIPT...
#3 - One of the best anti-combo cards ever printed...

They are worried about control in Modern? That is funny. Good luck popping off that Ancestral Visions or paying 2 life to counter a spell and still winning without decent duals, Batterskull, or Jace TMS, or Faeries...

Oh well, at least the line has been drawn in the sand. WotC has pretty much come out and said with this, "Modern is not Legacy and it's not trying to be." Good job on crushing Extended for a format people may actually care about a little. The ban list is LOL but at least they killed the correct format so I don't care.

TheInfamousBearAssassin

08-12-2011, 03:16 AM

Tom LaPille: the same guy who thought NPH would fix Standard. If he had anything to do with this, it is doomed to be a failure.

I'm inclined to agree, he seems like a very stereotypical EDH player in terms of wanting to define what's fun by calling everything better than the decks he likes to play unfun, and then banning them.

emidln

08-12-2011, 03:20 AM

Pretty sure they missed a very strong combo deck.

PunkRocker1134

08-12-2011, 03:23 AM

Pretty sure they missed a very strong combo deck.

Which would be?....

Tempus

08-12-2011, 03:31 AM

You can play Second Sunrise.dec I guess..

And Dragonstorm without Dragonstorm?

sporenfrosch1411

08-12-2011, 03:34 AM

Dragonstorm was in TimeSpiral -> check it out, its legal then ;)

Koby

08-12-2011, 03:34 AM

I'm inclined to agree, he seems like a very stereotypical EDH player in terms of wanting to define what's fun by calling everything better than the decks he likes to play unfun, and then banning them.

Tom actually is a complete Spike. The MTGO Classic community invited him and Eric Lauer to play in their own format, and Tom brought Combo Oath. He has a keen awareness of developing formats - but remember that his role is Development, and not Design.

He has posted in our forums before regarding quashing the stale evolution of Legacy and how the more fit strategies will survive and overtake the weaker ones.

That said, I think R&D is just being overly cautious with Modern for the time being due to the high risk of putting it front and center for PT Philly.

JACO

08-12-2011, 03:48 AM

Which would be?....
I plan on playing and writing about Splinter Twin. You have a million good cards to find your combo and protect it, and the combo is relatively cheap and compact.

What else are you thinking Brandon?

Mr.C

08-12-2011, 03:57 AM

At Eternal Central (www.eternal-central.com) we are getting ready for a revamp, and will be doing FULL support of the Modern format, including articles and a forum (forum is already up; no activity yet obviously so let's grow it!). I am in the process of writing a Modern article that should be up Monday!

You know, I think that The Source should open up a Modern forum, and stop shitting on it like a bunch of whiners.

The way I see it, in my Morphine-induced state (I just had a kidney stone surgery, so if this sounds like rambilng, go oustide and fuck yoursefl).

Wizards looks like it wants a four (or five) "tier" format.

1 - Standard/Limited -> This is where players start out. They learn the basics here. Draft, maybe, or buy event decks and have fun in FNM.

2 - Modern - They start having more cards, and play an Eternal Format, with stuff that's relatively easy to acquire.

3 - Legacy - When a person gets bored with Modern, they can play Legacy, where *everything* is Legal, except broken ass shit.

3a - Vintage - Or they can play Vintage, if they want to play with the magical powerful cards form the beginning of Magic.

4 - Commander - if they get tired of competitive Magic, they can play something like commander for a while. Then maybe get back to drafting.

Now, for The Source. I've been here since 2005, but lurking since the days of 1.5. You guys *need* to embrace Modern, or face the risk of becoming the next The Mana Drain. Which would suck, because there are a lot of creative people here.

Myself, I will be dumping extra Legacy cards. When SCG drops Legacy (because they will, and I bet as early as the middle of next year), Legacy is going back to the pre-SCG price levels. Which I guess is good for us, in a sense.

This may be Wizard's best move yet, guys.

birds of paradise2

08-12-2011, 04:01 AM

Lemnear

08-12-2011, 04:18 AM

Mental Misstep? What are they thinking?

Oh well, at least the line has been drawn in the sand. WotC has pretty much come out and said with this, "Modern is not Legacy and it's not trying to be, except you play Legacy Zoo with Shocklands" Good job on crushing Extended for a format people may actually care about a little. The ban list is LOL but at least they killed the correct format so I don't care.

fixed that 4 you.

Seriously, banning misstep but keeping Bloodbraid Elf and Vial is bullshit. Visions is a joke but I expected something retarded then I realized LaPille's making the announcement; and He delivers like He did with his "gentlemans Agreement" in mystical tutor.

I expect Zoo, Jund and 12-post to be the Big Boys in the Format with a bit of meerfolk and Dragonstorm in the mix. Wizards nerfed control and let aggro Pass unchecked.

How is countering nacatl and aether vial more unfair than the cards itself?

into_play

08-12-2011, 04:27 AM

So how is this really with duel deck and similar reprints that have the modern frame? Like Brainstorm or the commander cards? Are they legal? Not that I'm ever going to play that format with that banned list, just curious..
I assumed this whole "every card with a modern frame" was made to help kiddies know which cards are legal just by looking at them..now making a lot of exceptions doesn't make a lot of sense.

I was wondering this too, are cards reprinted in duel decks and promos not legal at all? That seems potentially confusing, especially after just printing the Commander decks with the new-framed old cards. Also, are Timeshifted cards from Time Spiral (Lord of Atlantis) legal in the format? They were a part of the Time Spiral set.

dontbiteitholmes

08-12-2011, 04:28 AM

Myself, I will be dumping extra Legacy cards. When SCG drops Legacy (because they will, and I bet as early as the middle of next year), Legacy is going back to the pre-SCG price levels. Which I guess is good for us, in a sense.

This may be Wizard's best move yet, guys.

I don't agree, SCG was holding Vintage events as recently as 2008, they have been setting records every other event for Legacy attendance, and they probably have more Legacy cards than anyone else. I agree that some day Legacy will get dropped from SCG but it's not going to be the middle of next year. As has been noted before they have to stock Legacy cards whether they hold events or not. As far as selling your cards, you may regret that. Legacy will stay viable for a good while out. I mean in America at least there are 300+ players regularly at large events. Vintage prices have only gone up since the format basically disappeared, there is no reason to believe Legacy prices will drop if SCG stops holding events (maybe for a short time they will dip but not for a sustained period). Pre-SCG levels haha, not a chance of that. I don't ever see Underground Seas hitting $70 let alone whatever they went for pre-2010 jump.

264505

08-12-2011, 04:39 AM

fixed that 4 you.

Seriously, banning misstep but keeping Bloodbraid Elf and Vial is bullshit. Visions is a joke but I expected something retarded then I realized LaPille's making the announcement; and He delivers like He did with his "gentlemans Agreement" in mystical tutor.

I expect Zoo, Jund and 12-post to be the Big Boys in the Format with a bit of meerfolk and Dragonstorm in the mix. Wizards nerfed control and let aggro Pass unchecked.

How is countering nacatl and aether vial more unfair than the cards itself?
I think there will be a lot more brewing then you think there will be. It basically opens the format up to everything played in extended for the last 6 years. Control isn't nerfed, but Blue control is. Black control with creature removal and discard should be solid with access to Phyrexian Arena and Damnation and any number of options as finishers. It has answers to both combo and control.

Amon Amarth

08-12-2011, 05:17 AM

Why is it that when Tom Lapille ever writes anything about cards being banned I feel like I'm being trolled? Ancestral Visions? Really?

UnsungHero

08-12-2011, 05:27 AM

So if SFM and JTMS is banned, does this mean Hallowed Fountain will drop back down in price?

Maybe 5-color control from Lorwyn-Alara standard will be viable, that was a fun deck to play.

Tempus

08-12-2011, 05:40 AM

Fun thing is, that they wouldn't need to ban SFM, JTMS or Visions if they didn't ban all cool combodecks. Then aggro could prey on control and control on combo. Now just play current CawBlade with better duals to beat the aggrodecks...

trivial_matters

08-12-2011, 05:51 AM

That article is hilarious, especially the part where he talks about the banned cards. See Mental Misstep for a good example.

I'm disappointed.

Mr. Safety

08-12-2011, 07:33 AM

I was originally a little excited about modern...but I have to say, seeing the ban list, I'm OUT.

They essentially banned these decks:

Faeries
Elves Combo
Hypergenesis
Affinity
Dredge
Mystic-Jace
MUC
Thopter/Sword
Hex-Depths
Counter-Top Control

They missed something here. The reason modern was such a good idea was that you could start playing those powerful strategies without worry about Wasteland and Force of Will (or needing to have original duals) each of them scrambling for top-slot with enough power parity to make it interesting. (What happens when ALL of those decks are in the same format? OMG! COMPETITION WITH DIVERSIFICATION? BAN THAT SHIT!)

Jitte is banned...why? Play your own jittes or hates in the board. No mystic to worry about cheating it. This sucks.

Bitterblossom? Seriously? This dude (Tom Lapille) consistently quotes legacy as his gauge for power level...and faeries isn't anywhere near the top in legacy. Sure it's a tier 1.5-tier 2 deck, but it isn't a huge powerhouse in legacy.

The guy keeps talking aboiut how he doesn't want a consistent turn 3 combo win...so he bans both Glimpse of Nature AND Mental Misstep? Only green decks can play Glimpse, but ANYONE CAN PLAY MISSTEP in the main/sideboard. It would have been Modern's Force of Will...the counterspell that kept degenerate decks in check.

I seriously hope they print more cards in order to take cards OFF that list. If not, this format will suck ass worse than a detoured crab louse (got that quote from someone on here...can't remember who...) I think the only ban-worthy card on that whole list is Skullclamp.

I'm more pissed off than a condom on a tiny dink...

Tammit67

08-12-2011, 07:46 AM

Dragonstorm seems ok... but what about Heartbeat of Spring?

Gui

08-12-2011, 07:55 AM

I like that modern has a lot of legacy staples banned. It won't ever be legacy, and won't look like legacy. The only thing it is doing, exactly, is replacing Extended.

And I disagree that MTS should be your source for Modern. I think this should stay as legacy-only.

Nihil Credo

08-12-2011, 07:58 AM

I think everybody's being way too negative and halfemptyglassish here (woohoo I'm the spear-shaker).

1) Today we got confirmation that Modern is meant to outright kill Extended, not Legacy (which always made sense, since WotC is going to want a format for old Spike cards to be played, but we couldn't be sure). Awesome.

2) Regarding the banned list, yes, I believe there's at least two unnecessary cards in there. But, I believe TLP when he says "Second, we can always unban cards in the future. In Vintage and Legacy, over time we have been continually picking away at the respective restricted and banned lists, and both are at historical lows in terms of the percentage of the card pool that is banned or restricted. As we get more information, we will change the Modern banned list over time. We may have overbanned here, and if we did, we have plenty of time to go back and fix that."

This banlist is obviously aggressive, and this aggressiveness is obviously due to a debut Pro Tour so close. Having the format's first PT feature a clear, obvious, single best deck would be MUCH worse than having the format be relatively boring and ruled by aggro and aggro-control decks.

The DCI hit it out of the park with the original Legacy banned list, creating from the start a format where every archetype was viable, even when people called them crazy for leaving stuff like LED off the list. But they only managed it because they had years of T1.5 as reference. To try and do the same with Modern, which only has a quirky Community Cup in its CV and needs to immediately support a Pro Tour, would have been sheer hybris.

3) Related - some people seem to be confusing TLP and Ken Nagle. All they have in common is working in R&D and writing Mothership columns.

4) A small bonus: we got some clear information about the thus-far completely nebulous DCI B&R philosophy for Legacy.

First, we have a rule of thumb about Legacy that we don't like consistent turn-two combination decks, but that turn-three combination decks are okay.

Whether or not you approve of this rule, it's going to help a lot to tone down the noise and circle-jerkinggoing in B&R thread.

5) No comment yet as to whether The Source will support Modern.

Sims

08-12-2011, 08:05 AM

The format looks hilarious. That said, I think I might build a modern deck just to have hanging out, cause why not?

Been since Mirrodin standard since i've been able to play TnN outside of an EDH game.

Cire

08-12-2011, 09:22 AM

Is it just me or is splinter twin really really good in this format?

12 cards for the combo
-4 splinter twin
-4 pestermite
-4 Deceiver Exarch
12 Draw/search/cantrips
-4 Ponder
-4 Preordain
-4 ???
14 Burn/removal/counters
-4 Lightning bolt
-4 Spell Pierce
-3 Spell snare
-3 Dismember
22 Lands

There's a rough draft for you... IMO looks like a good place to start... you have a turn 4 combo finish, plenty of draw, plenty of removal/counters and you don't have to to worry about FOW...

TheDarkshineKnight

08-12-2011, 09:30 AM

Boring format is boring. I was really hoping they'd change it up to become Masques and onward.

Yes, I wanted a Legacy killer. The format's simply become too expensive for me to invest in anymore.

KindGrind

08-12-2011, 09:34 AM

As I already invested in the format, I'm happy that the banned list is over the top and that it's pretty much standard+. I wonder if the people that hoarded their SFM/JTMS for Modern will unload them now or just say "The hell with it" and turn to Legacy instead.

Gui

08-12-2011, 09:43 AM

5) No comment yet as to whether The Source will support Modern.

Yeah, why not... we could add a subforum for modern, one for standard, and one for vintage. That way TS would look a little more like salvation. What bad could come out of this? ^^

Mr. Safety

08-12-2011, 10:04 AM

Good points all...I have simmered down a little bit. In particular, Gui hit the nail on the head: it isn't intended to subvert legacy...it's intended to have it's own identity, not 'mini-legacy'.

That said...aggressive banning is what I'm really burned up about. I understsand why they are doing it, I'm just impatient to get some history under Modern's belt so they can correct it asap. I really like the idea of a Modern format, as I got back into magic when 8th/mirrodin were released...so I've kept up (for the most part) with all the staples.

If any of you guys have any spare ravnica shock-lands lying around, now is a great time to unload them so you can get cash/trade into some legacy staples. I'm planning on doing that for sure.

Lemnear

08-12-2011, 10:05 AM

Mr. Safety

08-12-2011, 10:07 AM

I am negotiating a trade with a friend of mine who wants one of my Breeding Pools. The thing shot up from about $15 to $35 overnight...if I'd traded it last week, I would have gotten a lot less for it. (He's a buddy though, so I'll compromise so he doesn't get hosed....)

I bought a Watery Grave 2 weeks ago for $10...it has now tripled in value. Mr. Safety is happy... :smile:

hyperchord24

08-12-2011, 10:10 AM

To say that Modern is a fix for legacy (are WotC actually saying that?) is laughable. As demand for cards rises, prices increase. Yay, we don't have to pay for duals! Oh, wait, shocklands are just as expensive. Huh, who knew. It's going to be the same crap with 3-4 top teir decks and price increases for all cards in said decks. Someone breaks a older rare card, guess what, price increase. Now, I could see this as a solution for the waining interest in extended, but prices are going to go up.

nedleeds

08-12-2011, 10:31 AM

So Misstep *is* banned, but Aether Vial isn't.

Let that sink in.

Who rolls out with a 100 card banned list ... ??? This also indicates to me that Tarmogoyf is going to be reprinted in that Ajani duel deck. Otherwise if this joke of a format takes off it'll be $150.00.

Admiral_Arzar

08-12-2011, 10:35 AM

Rizso

08-12-2011, 10:53 AM

Control vs a fast zoo without swords, missteps seem like a real hard matchup to beat.

TBH I dont feel either jitte, Chrome mox and stoneforge is that overpowering that it needs to be banned same with ancestral visions. Vials should be banned without missteps and FOW in the format.

boneclub24

08-12-2011, 10:55 AM

Hmm, so basically... I can play RDW without fear of combo? Awesomesauce.

-4 Chain Lightning

+4 Incinerate

Good to go!

nedleeds

08-12-2011, 11:00 AM

Hmm, so basically... I can play RDW without fear of combo? Awesomesauce.

-4 Chain Lightning

+4 Incinerate

Good to go!

White Weenie with 4 x Leyline of Sanctity in the board. Thanks for coming.

phonics

08-12-2011, 11:10 AM

They would probably go tribal flames over incinerate, but its not like they wont have pridemages and zeniths to deal with it, I mean they do a decent job in legacy to say the least.

Shawn

08-12-2011, 11:12 AM

I can play Gifts and Loam AND Grove+Fires in this format? Awesome. Probably just rolls over to 12 Post, however.

Jonathan Alexander

08-12-2011, 11:13 AM

They really should reprint at least the shockduals. I looked up prices on MagicCardMarket.com and realised that foils are going for about as much as real duals. Also, the price for Tarmogoyfs started increasing again. Dark Confidant was rising over the last few weeks anyway, though I can see it being reprinted in Innistrad. I think we can expect seeing the Onslaught fetches again within the next year or something.
But it's cool to see how prices basically have become an issue before the format even started being played competitively.

By the way, the last point Nihil Credo brought up is really interesting in my opinion. It's something we didn't know before and that will (hopefully) lead to less threads like "this or that should be banned". Still, Vengevine Survival wasn't a turn two combo deck and Survival still got the axe so that could mean that Show And Tell might be banned within the next months.

GtF

08-12-2011, 11:16 AM

I must be the only one in the world who actually likes this announcement and the banned list.
They don't want people winning turn 3, and force of will is not in the format to stop it. What's so wrong with that?
Yes there are some cards that might not need to be on there (jitte and misstep spring to mind), but is having them on there really that big a deal? They're utility cards anyway, any deck that might want to play them can still exist without them. The fact that most of the powerhouses are banned is awesome to me because it makes the format seem pretty fresh. Combo still exists, but it won't be the only option, which is good last I checked.
Tom explicitly states in the announcement that it is NOT intended to replace legacy, which the banned list goes a long way towards confirming. In legacy broken things can exist because of force of will. Modern has no such luxury. I think the better safe than sorry approach in this case is completely correct.
Now let's just hope they had the foresight to reprint rav. duals in innistrad so people can realistically get the cards to play the format. I'm dubious since it seems like the announcement was a recent decision, but maybe they have more foresight than I realize.

Sims

08-12-2011, 11:20 AM

How can you be happy if wizards ban "safe" Cards, kindGrind? They ban Jitte because of it's Power in kamigawa-standard which is plain dumb as an indicator if it could break modern and managing B&R that way is embarassing for WotC

I checked the prices of the upcoming modern-staples and I saw hallowed fountain is up to 42$?! Tarmogoyf jumped by around 15$? I hoped that this format is a real solution to Legacy's prices but this is ridiculous; I can buy real duals for that price!

Actually with the bans they made, honestly, Jitte makes sense. I'm not sure if you were playing during that time period, but when Aggro decks have 4 legendary permanents, and the contrrol decks were running them to legend out the aggro decks jittes, the card is good. It's already arguably better than most of the swords based on mana investment, and when active dominates an aggro matchup. Considering this format is going to be mostly aggro matchups, taking out what would innevitably be 2-3 of in every aggro deck and preventing the format from warping around it's presence seems a good pre-emptive call. If the format can handle it they can always unban it.

Mark Sun

08-12-2011, 11:26 AM

I can play Gifts and Loam AND Grove+Fires in this format? Awesome. Probably just rolls over to 12 Post, however.

Ghost Quarter!

I tried not to speculate, but I own about 8-10 Shocklands from EDH and just trading, and I'm happy with it. It sucks that the announcement happened last night, right when I'm broke from going to SCG Pittsburgh/Gen Con in back-to-back weeks. Oh well.

Shawn

08-12-2011, 11:29 AM

But then it's harder to play Cryptic and Cruel Ultimatum. :(

Anthem

08-12-2011, 11:50 AM

Aether Vial isn't banned? How silly.

I can play my Deadguy list in Modern, minus Stoneforge? I ain't even mad. I'm actually pumped to try this out.

Edit: Oh, and I can't have Jitte. 3 Swords? 3 Swords.

Solaran_X

08-12-2011, 11:54 AM

On a more seriouse note, I suppose this can also keep the cost of Modern decks lower. The only thing need to worry about are the shock lands.
Check SCG prices for the staples.
The highest shocklands are Breeding Pool and Hallowed Fountain at $34.99 each. Dark Confidants are $49.99 each. And Tarmogoyfs are $74.99 each.

If Jace wasn't banned in this format, I bet SCG would be selling him at $99.99 each again.

And don't hold your breath waiting for WotC to reprint Goyfs and Bobs. Bet they'll ban them from Modern before they reprint them to control costs.

Gui

08-12-2011, 11:54 AM

... we have a rule of thumb about Legacy that we don't like consistent turn-two combination decks, but that turn-three combination decks are okay.
Can we re-open the "[bitchin' about] SnT " thread now? :P

Richard Cheese

08-12-2011, 11:58 AM

Man, that whole article is just full of gems. First he argues that the new Extended was just as popular as the old one, and a healthy format...but we're replacing it anyway!

Other great moments:

On top of this, Dredge is not known for being fun to have around.

We chose to ban it rather than put that much pressure on beatdown decks

1. Who still says "beatdown"?
2. Really!?

Koby

08-12-2011, 12:18 PM

My favorite line from the article -
"You'll notice that we haven't touched a blue card yet. When we got to this point and realized that blue was escaping unscathed, we knew we had to ban something"

Well, I guess we haven't touched blue yet, so as to assuage all the blue haters, here's the list of Blue cards we'll kill too, since otherwise the format will be interesting and (still) blue dominated.

SMR0079

08-12-2011, 12:31 PM

Well, at least there's no threat of Modern threatening Legacy with that banned list. Big let down for any Legacy players who thought they were getting a more affordable less broken version of Legacy. That being said, I think it's a great replacement for extended.

Stoneblade Control was to good, but not sure about banning Visions, Misstep, and Bitterblossom.

Zoo & Junk are obviously first out of the gates, but I want to find the best Vial deck myself - and I don't think it's Merfolk. Fast Zoo and Vial.dec will get Mental Misstep unbanned.

I'd like to see a Modern sub-forum on the Source, but I can understand if it's not in line with the vision. It would just be nice to have the convenience of one stop shopping.

yawg07

08-12-2011, 12:34 PM

I personally find the format to be really interesting and an exciting new prospect to build in.
Modern is more or less what I wanted Extended to be all along. NOT Legacy-Lite, more like Extended+

Now to brainstorm some 12-post U/G Tooth and Nail combo xD

Octopusman

08-12-2011, 12:51 PM

This format is getting slammed on their forums.
LMFAO

I'm sure goyf will go up now :(

dahcmai

08-12-2011, 01:02 PM

I kind of like the idea. It's much more refreshing to see this than that boring old Extended.

The banlist is fine by me. I would have liked to see Aether Vial on there to keep aggro in check a little more, but I guess you can't have everything. Kind of a bummer with Misstep being the best answer to that card too and no Deed to wipe it away if it gets out. Going to have to let it smack you a little in this format.

I find the banlist to be a little refreshing, but I'm a deck builder. I like new ground. Cryptic Command, Ranger of Eos, Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Vengevine, 12 post (in general), Dragonstorm, Incite Memories, Ad Nauseum, and plenty of other goodies are still in. Hell, the Countertop package is still intact oddly enough. I kind of expected Top if anything. They've never liked that one much.

I plan on playing something like the old Naya Zoo just for Ranger of Eos alone. Though I loved Doran also. Ohran Viper gets good again! Kithkin, Shadowmage Infitrator, Meddling Mage, and tons of other things that really never got a shot are getting one more to prove they don't deserve the dollar bin.

The fact that it's practically a direct replacement for Extended and not Legacy makes me smile too. I can't wait to hear the whiny asses cry about the price of Rav duals. hee hee.

yawg07

08-12-2011, 01:06 PM

Top is banned, dahcmai
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/155a

dahcmai

08-12-2011, 01:08 PM

Ah missed that. I was wondering. Shocked me when I didn't notice it.

DukeDemonKn1ght

08-12-2011, 01:12 PM

My first blush reaction is that I get to dust off my old Kithkin deck (which splashes red for burn), add Aether Vial to it, and... profit?

I do agree that WotC seems to be deliberately making this a "simple aggro strategy" format though, which chafes my buns a bit. But honestly, this is basically what I've come to expect from those cynical jive-turkeys.

yawg07

08-12-2011, 01:13 PM

I know, right? I didn't notice it first time either, I was too busy being confused about Misstep.
If they didn't ban top, I'd be cramming Counterbalance down people's throats with my foot

Finn

08-12-2011, 01:31 PM

I think Aether Vial is basically going to stymie control without Misstep or broke-ass combo to keep it in check.

You should consider it to have a bullseye on it, and for Engineered Explosives to be the number one answer to fight it in the coming months.

nedleeds

08-12-2011, 01:33 PM

Ratchet Bomb, EE will be the control answer to Vial. That being said there are a number of hosers for the artifact sweepers (Revoker, Needle of Love, Steel Sabotage).

tsabo_tavoc

08-12-2011, 01:38 PM

caiomarcos

08-12-2011, 02:49 PM

Am I the only one thinking that this format will relieve the prices on Legacy? Nobody played Extended so either they were pleying Standard or Legacy, now I do think that a lot of Legacy players will play at least both formats if not only modern, and with that putting a lot of staples back to the market.
Also, cards like SFM and Jace are only played in Legacy, no more Extended season price spike.

OTOH we may have cards like Bob getting to ridiculous prices because now they are not played only in Legacy, but I don't see that happening to many cards.

Gui

08-12-2011, 02:55 PM

Nihil Credo

08-12-2011, 03:03 PM

I'll take a stand on your toilet seat and poop in your tank.

As you can see, Zilla is clearly in favour of hosting Modern at the Source.

UnsungHero

08-12-2011, 03:06 PM

It may relieve the prices on some cards, but it also may increase the prices on some. Many seem to be thinking Tarmogoyf is going to shoot through the roof, and Bob is to go even higher.

With that I think this format has some serious potential. The banlist may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it may allow some old niche standard decks to shine in a new meta with new cards.

Solar Flare
Dralnu du Louvre
Dragonstorm
5 Color/Cruel Control
Swans Combo
Turbo Fog

All these decks were pretty fun to play in standard. Maybe they will have a chance to shine again.

TooCloseToTheSun

08-12-2011, 03:07 PM

As you can see, Zilla is clearly in favour of hosting Modern at the Source.

Is that a yes or a no.....

trivial_matters

08-12-2011, 03:16 PM

Make a poll asking people to vote in favour or against a Modern subforum?

08-12-2011, 03:28 PM

Make a poll asking people to vote in favour or against a Modern subforum?

A poll isn't going to sway the mod staff's decision, so that isn't necessary. We're going to do what we feel is the best course of action for the website. We'll be discussing it over the next couple days and will likely come to a decision on it sometime over the weekend, so look forward to hearing something from us on the subject soon.

Anthem

08-12-2011, 03:29 PM

Richard Cheese

08-12-2011, 03:31 PM

A poll isn't going to sway the mod staff's decision, so that isn't necessary. We're going to do what we feel is the best course of action for the website. We'll be discussing it over the next couple days and will likely come to a decision on it sometime over the weekend, so look forward to hearing something from us on the subject soon.

Make a modern subforum, but ban talking about any cards or archetypes that are remotely interesting!

dan who?

08-12-2011, 03:49 PM

I'm just mad I can't port my Stone Blade deck to Modern, because to me winning is fun!

Sims

08-12-2011, 03:55 PM

I'm just mad I can't port my Stone Blade deck to Modern, because to me winning is fun!

Sorry, pal, guess you'll just need to find a new deck to win with in modern so you can win and have fun!

Koby

08-12-2011, 03:57 PM

I'm just mad I can't port my Stone Blade deck to Modern, because to me winning is fun!

Luckily, you can port your Standard deck to Legacy, and be on the Win Bandwagon.

Dark Ritual

08-12-2011, 04:17 PM

trivial_matters

08-12-2011, 04:18 PM

A poll isn't going to sway the mod staff's decision, so that isn't necessary. We're going to do what we feel is the best course of action for the website. We'll be discussing it over the next couple days and will likely come to a decision on it sometime over the weekend, so look forward to hearing something from us on the subject soon.

That sounds reasonable. I thought it'd be useful to gauge the interest for a subforum, i.e. whether people want one or not. I agree though that the decision is yours to make.

Wereodile

08-12-2011, 04:30 PM

I'm just going to play dragonstorm in this format since they banned no pieces of it. As for the banlist, it is the shittiest banlist I have ever seen. Mental misstep? Really? Ancestral vision is sooooooooo broken people, on turn 5 you have access to practically every draw spell in the format sans cruel ultimatum.

I think Zilla might be against a modern subforum with that quote. Legacy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Modern

In the mothership article today they mentioned a lack of Blue cards being banned so maybe it was just a balancing issue? But your right of all the blue spells those two are pretty lame choices

Zilla

08-12-2011, 06:28 PM

Now, for The Source. I've been here since 2005, but lurking since the days of 1.5. You guys *need* to embrace Modern, or face the risk of becoming the next The Mana Drain.
This is an ironic thing to say, because The Source got its start as a subforum on The Mana Drain.

In any case, we recognize that there is interest amongst our community in the Modern format, and are actively discussing the matter. We'll have a decision made in the next couple days.

And just in case anyone is wondering, I'm not going to poop in your toilet tank. Only Bardo's.

TheInfamousBearAssassin

08-12-2011, 06:35 PM

Tom actually is a complete Spike. The MTGO Classic community invited him and Eric Lauer to play in their own format, and Tom brought Combo Oath. He has a keen awareness of developing formats - but remember that his role is Development, and not Design.

He has posted in our forums before regarding quashing the stale evolution of Legacy and how the more fit strategies will survive and overtake the weaker ones.

That said, I think R&D is just being overly cautious with Modern for the time being due to the high risk of putting it front and center for PT Philly.

I guess I would be more interested in this if Invasion+ were legal. This just seems so neutered as a format.

soltakar

08-12-2011, 06:59 PM

This is an ironic thing to say, because The Source got its start as a subforum on The Mana Drain.

In any case, we recognize that there is interest amongst our community in the Modern format, and are actively discussing the matter. We'll have a decision made in the next couple days.

And just in case anyone is wondering, I'm not going to poop in your toilet tank. Only Bardo's.

My memory must be failing me, I seem to recall The Mana Leak being the 1.5 subforum on The Mana Drain and The Source being its own site. Oh well, I guess these types of mistakes in recollection are bound to come with my increase in age.

Solaran_X

08-12-2011, 07:10 PM

JACO

08-12-2011, 07:49 PM

Couldn't agree more about the modern sub-forum on the source. Eternal-central's forum is not really userfriendly and not so easy to navigate as the source. (which is awesome).

To clarify: i think your site is great (EC) with the articles but i dislike the forum section.Thank you for your feedback. I think the current Forum we have on EC sucks too, and we're looking to upgrade it ASAP. In other news we acquired the domain name eternalcentral.com (no hyphen), so we'll be transitioning everything to that site in the near future to make it easier for everyone. The relaunch will be pimp, with full Modern support. ;)

Zilla

08-12-2011, 08:06 PM

My memory must be failing me, I seem to recall The Mana Leak being the 1.5 subforum on The Mana Drain and The Source being its own site. Oh well, I guess these types of mistakes in recollection are bound to come with my increase in age.
Your recollection isn't incorrect. But The Source was founded by the most active users of The Mana Leak forums when it became increasingly clear that that site's moderators weren't at all interested in supporting it. My only point is that without The Mana Drain, this site wouldn't exist.

The part that's ironic is that it was said we would become like The Mana Drain if we didn't create a Modern subforum, when in fact we would be exactly like TMD if we do.

Mr.C

08-12-2011, 08:16 PM

A poll isn't going to sway the mod staff's decision, so that isn't necessary. We're going to do what we feel is the best course of action for the website. We'll be discussing it over the next couple days and will likely come to a decision on it sometime over the weekend, so look forward to hearing something from us on the subject soon.

I mean, you guys have a section for CYOS, which in reality nobody really gives a shit about, so might as well make a relevant section.

Darth Nihilus

08-12-2011, 08:17 PM

so borderpost aggro is now a tier 1 deck and costs about 10 bucks to build? sign me in!

Use capitalization please. Thanks. -zilla

Zilla

08-12-2011, 08:31 PM

I mean, you guys have a section for CYOS, which in reality nobody really gives a shit about, so might as well make a relevant section.
Hyperbolic though that statement is, we've been discussing the removal of the CYOS section as well, since interest does seem to have dropped significantly.

soltakar

08-12-2011, 09:02 PM

Your recollection isn't incorrect. But The Source was founded by the most active users of The Mana Leak forums when it became increasingly clear that that site's moderators weren't at all interested in supporting it. My only point is that without The Mana Drain, this site wouldn't exist.

The part that's ironic is that it was said we would become like The Mana Drain if we didn't create a Modern subforum, when in fact we would be exactly like TMD if we do.

Good to know that my memory is still intact. Interesting information on the formation of The Source as I've been lurking about, though almost never posting (as you can see I post so little that I forgot my old account info and had to recently create a new account) since the 1.5 days, but never knew how it was started.

(nameless one)

08-12-2011, 11:55 PM

I honestly think that the Source should be dedicated to eternal formats that aren't dead (sorry Vintage). I think Modern belongs here.

On the other note, I'm drunk. Refer to the drunk thread.

Freggle

08-13-2011, 12:26 AM

Your recollection isn't incorrect. But The Source was founded by the most active users of The Mana Leak forums when it became increasingly clear that that site's moderators weren't at all interested in supporting it. My only point is that without The Mana Drain, this site wouldn't exist.

The part that's ironic is that it was said we would become like The Mana Drain if we didn't create a Modern subforum, when in fact we would be exactly like TMD if we do.

Frankly, do what your heart wants. ...if you don't it will be a mistake.

If a forum is not made here someone else with the passion will certainly fill the void.

About the format. It's simply a change all good or bad connotations people are discussing here are moot. If you think something will own the format build it, play it, and prove it. ...but be careful you just might find yourself actually having fun in the process.

Zilla

08-13-2011, 01:15 AM

Frankly, do what your heart wants. ...if you don't it will be a mistake.
Wise words.

I want to clarify that I was only bringing up TMD's history because I thought the irony entertaining. Whatever they did, right or wrong, won't really inform our decision about Modern.

The reason TMD has mostly died wasn't an unwillingness on their part to embrace new ideas; it was because the Vintage format was basically unsustainable in a competitive mainstream context for a few reasons: there simply weren't enough Vintage staples printed for it to be economically viable on the long term, there wasn't a huge amount of variation in decks, since they all share a core of the most broken cards available, and the format was stagnant because it's almost impossible for WoTC to print cards of a high enough power level to matter to Vintage deckbuilders.

Those factors combined to "kill" TMD. It's dead because Vintage is basically dead except to a few dedicated players. Legacy has a pretty high cost barrier to get into, but it's not anywhere near Vintage's level. It's got the widest variety of viable decks in any format in the game's history. It's got very strong cards, but WoTC keeps printing Legacy viable cards with every new set, which keeps things from getting stagnant.

I don't think The Source is in any danger of going out the way TMD did, because Legacy isn't going out the way Vintage did. A lot of Vintage players left Vintage to come to Legacy because it was the next best sustainable format. Legacy is extremely healthy, so its community doesn't need that alternative.

That doesn't mean we won't have a Modern forum. Just saying that TMD won't be the basis of our decision one way or the other. ;)

lordofthepit

08-13-2011, 01:26 AM

Wise words.

I want to clarify that I was only bringing up TMD's history because I thought the irony entertaining. Whatever they did, right or wrong, won't really inform our decision about Modern.

The reason TMD has mostly died wasn't an unwillingness on their part to embrace new ideas; it was because the Vintage format was basically unsustainable in a competitive mainstream context for a few reasons: there simply weren't enough Vintage staples printed for it to be economically viable on the long term, there wasn't a huge amount of variation in decks, since they all share a core of the most broken cards available, and the format was stagnant because it's almost impossible for WoTC to print cards of a high enough power level to matter to Vintage deckbuilders.

Those factors combined to "kill" TMD. It's dead because Vintage is basically dead except to a few dedicated players. Legacy has a pretty high cost barrier to get into, but it's not anywhere near Vintage's level. It's got the widest variety of viable decks in any format in the game's history. It's got very strong cards, but WoTC keeps printing Legacy viable cards with every new set, which keeps things from getting stagnant.

I don't think The Source is in any danger of going out the way TMD did, because Legacy isn't going out the way Vintage did. A lot of Vintage players left Vintage to come to Legacy because it was the next best sustainable format. Legacy is extremely healthy, so its community doesn't need that alternative.

That doesn't mean we won't have a Modern forum. Just saying that TMD won't be the basis of our decision one way or the other. ;)

If there were a Modern forum, would it go under "Alternative Forum Development"? Or would there be a "Forum Development" section with DTB, Established, N&D, etc. subforums associated with just Modern? I don't mind Modern discussion, but I hope it doesn't compromise the Source's focus as my source for Legacy.

Bardo

08-13-2011, 01:30 AM

If there were a Modern forum, would it go under "Alternative Forum Development"? Or would there be a "Forum Development" section with DTB, Established, N&D, etc. subforums associated with just Modern? I don't mind Modern discussion, but I hope it doesn't compromise the Source's focus as my source for Legacy.

Me too.

If MTS were to host Modern content, I assume we'd start with a single Modern forum and consider expanding and creating additional subforums if traffic / demand warranted we needed them

Zilla

08-13-2011, 02:01 AM

Me too.

If MTS were to host Modern content, I assume we'd start with a single Modern forum and consider expanding and creating additional subforums if traffic / demand warranted we needed them
^This.

Stinky-Dinkins

08-13-2011, 02:31 AM

Focus - Legacy.

dahcmai

08-13-2011, 02:48 AM

Probably the best idea since the people seem to be fairly split on whether or not they like it. It's a non-rotating format so it will probably end up being fairly decent, but it's worth paying some attention to just so if it turns out to be the next greatest format after Legacy, we're not left playing catch up.

You never know, that ban list does open up some odd territory for brewing to be sure. It might be a lot of fun. Or it could just suck. Worth watching though.

Bardo

08-13-2011, 02:52 AM

You never know, that ban list does open up some odd territory for brewing to be sure. It might be a lot of fun. Or it could just suck. Worth watching though.

Personally, the fact that there are no good duals, Force, or Brainstorm screams of total suckage to me.

Final Fortune

08-13-2011, 02:56 AM

Stupid question, but do Tombstalker and Tarmogoyf not qualify for Modern with their Time Shifted card designs?

Jonathan Alexander

08-13-2011, 02:58 AM

That and the banlist makes for an absolutely new format though. There are no direct ports from Legacy and you also can't just play the old Standard Caw-Blade. I'm quite interested to see the results from Pro Tour Philadelphia to be honest. I think aggressive green strategies are a good point to start, but that's pretty obvious.

The criterion is that the card can be found in "every booster release from Eighth Edition (for core sets) and Mirrodin (for expansion sets) forward" so you can play these cards as well as Akroma, Angel Of Wrath for example.

264505

08-13-2011, 03:16 AM

I think if this forum has a sub-forum for CYOS and EDH, then modern certainly has a place. It probably will get played much more than CYOS because of the whole wizards support aspect and everything.

sdematt

08-13-2011, 03:17 AM

@ final Fortune

Goyf and Stalker are from the Time Spiral block, so they're fine. Even Timeshifted cards, the ones with the purple set symbols, are legal. Ex. Lord of Atlantis is legal in Modern.

----------

The new format is very open. Consider the following:

-No Force to fuck up your plans.

-No combo to fuck over your terrible slow deck.

-No Wasteland in the first several turns (Tec Edge =/= Wasteland)

-No Brainstorm

-No Top

-Most decks from Legacy are now bad in Modern. Examples:

1.Fish? Fine, but can't capitalize off of Vial, cheap counters, etc.

2.Aggro Loam? No Mox Diamonds or Cycling Lands, seems very slow.

3. Goblins? Mostly all old frame cards. No dice.

4. Stoneblade doesn't exist without Jace/SFM.

5. No Stifle. At all (no Trickbind isn't Stifle).

6. No Show and Tell (and therefore no Hive Mind).

7. No random NO RUG, Bant, etc.

8. No Affinity, Thopters, Dark Depths, Mental Misstep, etc. DragonStorm seems like the only combo deck out there.

9. No Hymn, Swords, Wasteland, MM, etc. Several key cards from the banner are gone, and don't have excellent replacements.

-------------

To me, the format seems ripe for a ton of Aggro/midrange strategies involving Goyf, Confidant, Knight, Clique, and Hierarch. There will definitely be room for brewing.

-Matt

Zilla

08-13-2011, 03:39 AM

6. No Show and Tell (and therefore no Hive Mind).
I wouldn't write it off so quickly. In a format without Misstep, Counterspell, Force, or Daze, you don't really need SnT to cheat Hive Mind into play; you can just hardcast it. Obviously it would be slower and less protected than it is now, but against a format that's almost entirely aggro that may not matter.

GGoober

08-13-2011, 04:09 AM

Except that it would be hard for even a hard-casted combo deck like Hive Mind to beat aggro. If Hive Mind would be any bit dominant, a couple of angel's Grace in the SB drawn naturally on turn 6 will give the Hive Mind player tremendous headaches (not to mention facing a clock).

But I do agree that the counter-magic/control archetype is extremely weak without MM. Mana Leak is your best counterspell, not even Counterspell is legal (IIRC), and just mana Leak + Cryptics isn't going to be enough for a control deck to fight against the stronger zoo/junk decks etc.

Final Fortune

08-13-2011, 05:16 AM

Well, considering Zoo didn't lose anything other than Chain Lightning, which can be replaced by Rift Bolt, I'd say it's close to being the defacto Legacy -> Modern crossover and Maverick is also a sure bet.

It's kind of a shame they didn't ban Tarmogoyf and Aether Vial, but oh well.

Technics

08-13-2011, 05:42 AM

Screw Wizards "Combo Free" Format. I'm playing this!

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [NPH] Forest (1)
4 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
10 [NPH] Island (1)
1 [NPH] Plains (1)

// Spells
4 [MR] Chromatic Sphere
4 [10E] Chromatic Star
4 [FD] Conjurer's Bauble
4 [FUT] Edge of Autumn
4 [SHM] Elsewhere Flask
3 [TSP] Lotus Bloom
2 [M10] Ponder
2 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb
4 [9E] Reclaim
4 [DS] Reshape
4 [MR] Second Sunrise
1 [MR] Spoils of the Vault
1 [MR] Sunbeam Spellbomb
3 [ARB] Wargate

Philipp2293

08-13-2011, 06:07 AM

Maverick is also a sure bet.

Not so sure, Maverick loses Mum and Mystic (as well as StoP and Wasteland).

RainbowPenguin

08-13-2011, 06:19 AM

I also think Maverick is unlikely to be a popular deck, simply because.. Well, what are you doing that other decks can't do, too? Without Mom and Mystic, and playing in a format without Wasteland (aka less strain on 3+ colour manabases), aren't you just playing Zoo without burn, Junk without Confidant or Bant without counters?

Edit: I see some people recommending 12-post, anyone got lists?

Nihil Credo

08-13-2011, 07:44 AM

Head over to the forum main page for a surprise.

Sims

08-13-2011, 08:10 AM

Awesome. I agree with this decision.

Malchar

08-13-2011, 09:18 AM

Was the CYOS forum deleted?

Final Fortune

08-13-2011, 09:37 AM

Well, G/w/x then, but from where I'm standing green rules the roost on cost effective creatures and Knight of the Reliquary with Horizon Canopy is pretty sick right now. Ofcourse it'll be interesting to see if anybody can come up with a good Tron or Posts deck given Wasteland is banned.

The Treefolk Master

08-13-2011, 10:04 AM

If aggro turns out to be most of the metagame, a GW Haterator deck could prove viable.

Vials, N. Hierarchs, Finks, Tarmogoyfs, Mindcensors, Knights of the Reliquary, Chalice of the Void, etc.

Admiral_Arzar

08-13-2011, 11:53 AM

People on mtg-salvation have been throwing around (awful) mono-blue 12-post lists. IMO, U/G is the way to go, and would look something like this (untested and probably bad) list:

4 Cloudpoust
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Breeding Pool
? Basics
1-2 Eye of Ugin

4 Expedition Map
2 Sylvan Scrying
4 Compulsive Research
3 All is Dust

3 Primeval Titan
2 Emrakul
1 Kozilek
1 Ulamog

The remaining slots would be filled by Repeal and random countermagic most likely, unless there's something obvious I'm forgetting (likely). Titan is nuts as it ramps you and also fetches multiple Glimmerposts to race aggro. This is basically the Legacy 12-post deck, minus FOW and Candelabra. However, with the format slower, those losses may not matter too much.

Rizso

08-13-2011, 01:32 PM

Is it just me that feels like modern is gonna have decks with the most greedy mana bases ever made? Without wastelands keeping manabases in check. I feel that a deck with Magus of the moon and Blood Moon is gonna be really crazy. Wich deck they might be in i dont know yet maybe a jund or naya.

Cominbation of cards in form of Moons, goyf, bob, clique, kotr and tombstalker. Maybe the all in red might work, thought no chrom mox.

HAVE HEART

08-13-2011, 03:48 PM

How is a competing format allowed on a Legacy forum? Seems kind of like a radio forum allowing discussions of TV.

Zilla

08-13-2011, 04:34 PM

How is a competing format allowed on a Legacy forum? Seems kind of like a radio forum allowing discussions of TV.
It's not a competing format. It's extremely different from Legacy, and people who love Legacy aren't going to quit it to go play Modern.

This site's community has shown interest in Modern, and we can't see any reason why we shouldn't give them a place to discuss it.

Fossil4182

08-13-2011, 04:40 PM

The banned list and the accompanying article suggests that they are not looking for Modern to be a replacement or alternative for Legacy. This format is probably closer to when the older Extended format still existed (prior to 2002) in terms of the way it will work and its popularity.

The banned list and explanation suggests that WotC is seeking to create a format that will port well into local shops. Specifically, that it will provide a non-stardard/non-limited format that store owners can push. Based on my own experience playing in two different towns in the midwest over the past two years, I've observed that there are players that will play Legacy and some that will never want to be more than FNM/Standard players. The latter group won't transition to Legacy because of any number of reasons, but cost and intimidation are probably the largest reasons I've heard. Modern provides a format that is somewhat more accessible due to the number of standard decks that people will attempt to port. It will also be appealing because its a non-rotating format.

Additionally, Modern would seem easier for stores to run compared to Legacy. Specifically, a successful local Legacy event requires a decent stock of competitive staples to transition FNM/casual players into Legacy. That's a way higher investment cost for brick stores than picking up the staples for Modern. My guess would be that Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, and the competitive shocklands will make up the most expensive cards in the format; the most expensive of which is Goyf at $80. That's a much more reasonable card pool for shops that traditionally host limited and Standard events to acquire. Especially since these shops can draw on old standard sets for cards.

Basically, I see this as being a Format for semi-casual and FNM players to transition into.

Bardo

08-13-2011, 05:34 PM

Was the CYOS forum deleted?

It was an experiment to being with and recent traffic in that forum suggested it wouldn't be missed if it was removed. If there's a lot of interest in bringing it back, we'll consider resurrecting it.

SpikeyMikey

08-13-2011, 06:03 PM

I've been in the format since before the Community Cup and have been testing almost exclusively Modern online for some time now. I've also been keeping up with the forums at www.mtgmodern.com and was keeping up at MTGS until I got a permaban there. I have much higher hopes for the forums here simply because we generally have a better class of player than elsewhere, but we shall see.

Prior to the ban changes, the big 3 were Elves, Hypergenesis and 12Post. Zoo/Jund and All-in Red were fringe decks that preyed on the big 3. Everything else (Stoneforge Bant, CawBlade, Hive Mind, Restore Balance, Faeries, etc.) was tier 2 or worse.

The ban has complete axed Elves and Hyper but left 12Post and Zoo untouched. All-in Red gets significantly worse with the changes since the main reason for playing it was that it could consistently drop a turn 1 Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon and wreck 12Post and Hypergenesis. 12Post got a little worse only because fast aggro got a little better. Previously, the SFM decks were keeping aggro checked with Batterskull and most Zoo builds were too slow to consistently beat Post anyway. Now that aggro doesn't have to focus as much on trying to beat Hypergenesis, they can devote more energy to beating 12Post.

However, Hive Mind and other turn 4 combo decks got a big boost; they were held back by the faster combo decks of Elves and Hypergenesis but they are far more resilient than either. We're all aware that Hive Mind can be difficult to deal with in Legacy, imagine it in a format with no real control and no Force of Will. They accelerate into the combo around turn 4 with red rituals(Desperate, Pyretic) or Seething Song. They usually pack a backup plan of Pyromancer's Ascension, so Gaddock Teeg won't stop the deck, although Cannonist will slow them down to a combatable level. Just be glad Visions is gone. That card is gross with Ascension.

Splinter Twin is a real deck in the format too now that Hyper and Elves are gone. Previously, it was just too clunky and slow to be a threat, but now, a turn 4 combo is competitive and the deck has access to both Pestermite and Deceiver Exarch on one side and Splinter Twin and Kiki-Jiki on the other, so it has up to 8 pieces for each half of the combo. It is consistent and can be cast any time an opponent taps out. While I don't see it *winning* tournaments, I see it playing a foil to a large portion of the metagame, the way Valakut was doing in Standard before Splinter Twin was a deck. You have to win consistently by turn 4 or have instant speed removal and a strong clock in order to hope to match up against it.

@Admiral: the people at MTG Salv *are* awful. It's an interesting place to get ideas, but the decklists and color choices there are terribad. Greenpost is the way to go. You don't need or want blue, it doesn't do enough. If you were going to pair it with another color, red would be the way to go for Firespout but now that Elves isn't a factor, I think you're better off avoiding Blood Moon than having aggro hate; Wurmcoil Engine and Glimmerpost makes pretty good aggro hate.

Nidd

08-13-2011, 07:00 PM

Everyone talking about there being not a lot of combo decks seems to have missed that Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch + Splinter Twin/Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is about as fast and consistent as it can get.
Seriously, you got a combo that contains 2 cards of which you can play 8 copies each. Throw in 4 Ponder and 4 Preordain for good measure, Rite of Flame/Simian Spirit Guide and/or Seething Song for acceleration and you're looking at turn 3-4 wins on a regular basis.

Krosan Grip is no answer, as you'd need 4 untapped lands in order to cast it and it doesn't do anything against Kiki-Jiki.

For SB, there are some more counterspells, Echoing Truth for hatebears/the mirror, irespout against Aggro - you get it.

dsck

08-13-2011, 10:05 PM

Is modern going to replace extended?

Amon Amarth

08-14-2011, 05:09 AM

Is modern going to replace extended?

All signs point to yes since they replaced the Extended with Modern for the next PT.

quadibloc

08-14-2011, 09:29 AM

Even before the new larger banned list came out, many people were unhappy with when the Modern format started; as noted, for example, it excludes Counterspell.

But while the banned list seems pretty broad, look at what recently happened in Standard: they banned Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic. So people were saying that Valakut ramp would walk all over the format. What happened instead? Caw-Blade without the two banned cards dominates!

While some people were disappointed in Modern because it wasn't the Overextended they were hoping for, other people were skeptical about Overextended. There was just no way that a format like that could be as balanced and diverse as Legacy.

Well, I think that the Modern banned list, combined with its later starting point, shows that Wizards is intending to make Modern a highly diverse format, and is giving that goal its best try. I think they will have at least partial success eventually, even if the banned list is going to have to be tweaked.

But the complaints have a point too; Modern is missing something that people were hoping for from Overextended. If the price of the original duals as well as that of the Power Nine means that for most players Legacy as well as Vintage don't exist, and so Overextended was sought as "somewhere short of Legacy that I can go and play my old cards in"... well, that's more of what Vintage is (a place to play Black Lotus, so it isn't totally "banned from Magic", to quote Zammm from the MTG forums) than what Legacy is (a diverse and fun format spanning Magic's whole history).

Previously, I had thrown out the idea that Modern ought to have a restricted list instead of a banned list. Now, I'm thinking that Modern is fine as it is - but that, someday, once Modern is established and successful, Wizards should consider introducing another new format. Overextended. With a restricted list instead of a banned list.

If Modern is the "new" Legacy, we still need a "new" Vintage too.

HAVE HEART

08-14-2011, 05:38 PM

It's not a competing format. It's extremely different from Legacy, and people who love Legacy aren't going to quit it to go play Modern.

This site's community has shown interest in Modern, and we can't see any reason why we shouldn't give them a place to discuss it.

And if StarCityGames decides to pick up Modern as its Sunday format as opposed to Legacy? That is a direct threat to the popularity and health of Legacy, and it is a real possibility. I thought that connection was obvious.

Now, whether that would make Legacy more fun is arguable (I personally feel Legacy was at its best right after Flash got banned until around Ad Nauseam was printed), but it would definitely dwindle its popularity.

Zilla

08-14-2011, 06:45 PM

And if StarCityGames decides to pick up Modern as its Sunday format as opposed to Legacy?
They won't. Legacy creates a demand for older more expensive cards that wouldn't otherwise exist. It's absolutely in SCG's best interest to continue their support of the format.

Regardless, our decision to give people a place to discuss it isn't going to do anything to change SCG's course of action one way or the other.

SpeedOfDark

08-14-2011, 08:15 PM

Such a cfresh deckbuilder's dream format, yet all this hate? I love how this is the standard reaction we've come to expect from wotc announcing... well, pretty much anything ;p

For those confused about the massive banlist, it's to avoid complaints. Believe it or not, there will actually be more if the banlist is made small now and increased at a later point in time. And suppose the banlist was an overreaction, they can and will unban things as needed.

This looks fantastic to me. Time to build some decks :D

dontbiteitholmes

08-14-2011, 08:27 PM

They won't. Legacy creates a demand for older more expensive cards that wouldn't otherwise exist. It's absolutely in SCG's best interest to continue their support of the format.

Regardless, our decision to give people a place to discuss it isn't going to do anything to change SCG's course of action one way or the other.

Not to mention if people want to play Modern seriously they can play on the pro tour. If people want to play Legacy seriously they either have to live in the North-East or play in SCG events.

Tammit67

08-14-2011, 08:39 PM

Not to mention if people want to play Modern seriously they can play on the pro tour. If people want to play Legacy seriously they either have to live in the North-East or play in SCG events.

Yay Northeast!

KevinTrudeau

08-14-2011, 10:31 PM

It really sucks that it's not Masques-present, but the format looks alright. The banned list won't likely be as big come next year, when they'll unban things to spark interest (Misstep and Visions, among others). Should be fun once the duals get reprinted and the format has a year to flesh out.

cdr

08-14-2011, 11:14 PM

I'd expect the banlist to get bigger before it gets smaller. Trying to eliminate all fast combo in a format with that many cards is pretty ambitious.

That or they'll have to retreat on that position. Or equivocate about newer combo decks.

dontbiteitholmes

08-15-2011, 12:25 AM

If the format was Masques through Current it would be stupid and broken. The way they have it now they can still reprint anything they want from Masques forward without breaking a reprint policy and it will be legal and if they had made it Masques forward and not reprinted stuff the format would have been too expensive and had a banned list a mile long. As is the format is still going to be too expensive for most of the people who were complaining about Legacy prices the most.

dethangel666

08-15-2011, 12:53 AM

how good is noble hierarchs in modern?

Mr. Safety

08-15-2011, 07:27 AM

yawg07

08-15-2011, 11:50 AM

This format makes me want to play combo and play the HELL out of Gigadrowse, my favorite "NO YOU WONT BE COUNTERING ME" spell.

Admiral_Arzar

08-15-2011, 12:29 PM

how good is noble hierarchs in modern?

As good as they are in every other format they've been legal in?

kicks_422

08-16-2011, 11:40 PM

With the rising costs of Legacy, I think I'm going tojump ship and move to playing Modern.

And EDH.

Koby

08-16-2011, 11:43 PM

With the rising costs of Legacy, I think I'm going tojump ship and move to playing Modern.

And EDH.

The Source: Your Source for Quitters.

But seriously, Modern and especially EDH is going to become just as expensive to play the best decks in no time flat. The trouble is that there is no "early adopter" benefit since everyone is on the same page and looking for the best new tech.

TheInfamousBearAssassin

08-16-2011, 11:45 PM

The Source: Your Source for Quitters.

But seriously, Modern is going to become just as expensive to play the best decks in no time flat. The trouble is that there is no "early adopter" benefit since everyone is on the same page and looking for the best new tech.

It's pretty much impossible for Modern to be as expensive as Legacy.

kicks_422

08-17-2011, 12:09 AM

LOL. If you could spare me a couple of sets of duals with Force of Wills thrown in, I'd be playing Legacy. As a fresh grad with no cash to spare, and just about to get back to playing Magic after taking a break from it due to thesis work, I'm relegated to choosing between decks such as Burn, Dredge, Elves, etc.

For the price of a semi-budget deck in Legacy, I can already get a Tier 1-1.5 deck in Modern.

KevinTrudeau

08-17-2011, 01:31 AM

I'm with you there buddy. If Modern turns out to be as fun as old Extended was (I'm talking 2005/2006 era) and it gets supported in my local area, I'll gladly jump off the Legacy bandwagon. Unfortunately, WotC for some reason didn't start Modern at Masques block where the Reserve List ended and just banned D Rit and whatever else they might have felt like, so it might not be (cutting out two of the five or so most well-designed blocks in the history of Magic doesn't seem like the best idea for an ostensible Eternal format). I'm tired of all of these damn price hikes.

UnsungHero

08-17-2011, 05:27 AM

Amon Amarth

08-17-2011, 07:43 AM

It's pretty much impossible for Modern to be as expensive as Legacy.

I think it will be really close, eventually. The Ravnica duals will never get as expensive as the ABU ones but there are a ton of cards that see a ton of play in Legacy that will see play in Modern. Just look at the price of Confidant, Goyf, and Clique in the last 2 weeks. How many 100$ cards does it take to price people out of a PT/PTQ format? Looks like we are going to find out.

Pippin

08-17-2011, 09:07 AM

It's pretty much impossible for Modern to be as expensive as Legacy.

We're slowly getting there. $45 Hallowed Fountain for example. This is speculator's heaven right now

Mr. Safety

08-17-2011, 09:26 AM

HAVE HEART

08-17-2011, 02:27 PM

Legacy may be more expensive than modern, but ill pay a little extra to play with cards like Force of Will, Brainstorm,ect. It will be a matter of time before modern staples hit the same prices as most legacy staples. And for those prices you might as well just continue playing legacy.

This. Vendilion Clique is like $30-$40 (very good in Legacy, but this was $15 on StarCityGames at the beginning of last week). The low end of completed listings is $20 each. Why should I pay for shocklands (worth close to half of dual lands) when I can just play with the dual lands that I already got for less than the price of shocklands now? Also, the dual lands are on the reserved list, shocklands are not.

crovakiet

08-17-2011, 03:14 PM

I've been building a ton of casual decks lately using ravnica dual lands...and I'm seriously thinking of off-loading them so I can get some legacy staples. Either that or jump onto the Modern bandwagon and have roughly 4-5 competitive decks at my disposal immediately, lol.

I already offloaded the Modern 'crap' I had to turn into Legacy staples. I feel people should do the same with their Modern junk while it's still being speculated. Just keep the staples that have crossover between Legacy and Modern. This does not include shock lands because they are terrible and I think in an aggro environment such as Modern, the shocklands will definitely bite people in the buttocks and people will soon realize this.

Also if they don't reprint the shock lands, I can see Wizards making 'salve' dual lands that when they come into play they come into play 'tapped' or untapped if you choose to have your opponent gain 3 life.

crovakiet

08-17-2011, 03:18 PM

This. Vendilion Clique is like $30-$40 (very good in Legacy, but this was $15 on StarCityGames at the beginning of last week). The low end of completed listings is $20 each. Why should I pay for shocklands (worth close to half of dual lands) when I can just play with the dual lands that I already got for less than the price of shocklands now? Also, the dual lands are on the reserved list, shocklands are not.

Vendilion Cliques seem to be overvalued in my opinion at the moment especially when Modern looks like a very aggro environment and blue in general would be hard pressed to be a main and/or support color. However, Vendilion Clique was definitely an undervalued card pre-modern announcement when it was going for less than $10. All Modern did was make more people notice that the venerable clique was undervalued which made its price shoot up, and now its very possible that its been over-speculated. In my opinion, $15-$20 is definitely a fair price to pay for an amazing blue creature that sees some play in Vintage and massive play in the main and/or side of any Legacy deck that plays island(s).

keys

08-17-2011, 03:39 PM

Vendilion Cliques seem to be overvalued in my opinion at the moment especially when Modern looks like a very aggro environment and blue in general would be hard pressed to be a main and/or support color. However, Vendilion Clique was definitely an undervalued card pre-modern announcement when it was going for less than $10. All Modern did was make more people notice that the venerable clique was undervalued which made its price shoot up, and now its very possible that its been over-speculated. In my opinion, $15-$20 is definitely a fair price to pay for an amazing blue creature that sees some play in Vintage and massive play in the main and/or side of any Legacy deck that plays island(s).

Not necessarily. I think U/W Caw Blade will still be a DTB even without Jace and SFM, and Clique is awesome in it. Hawk, SoFaF, Clique, Sprite, Path, Cryptic Command, etc...

Wereodile

08-18-2011, 01:28 PM

Hello Everyone!

Please excuse my ignorance as I haven't played in over a year (baby, marriage etc.) so please take that into consideration.

Modern is peaking my interest with Aether Vial being legal and all. The last competitive Legacy deck I played was Merfolk I thought I would try to put a list together with a focus on Mana Denial/Disruption as everyone is talking about the potential of "greedy" mana bases. I am not quite sure if this deck has a place in what is an unknown meta so I did not want to start up it's own thread. Here we go:

//Modern Fish\\

//Creatures//

4x Lord of Altantis
4x Merrow Reejerey
4x Cursecatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
2x Phantasmal Image

//Spells//

4x Cryptic Command
3x Spreading Seas
3x Remand
2x Spell Pierce
2x Familiars Ruse
2x Echoing Truth

//Artifacts//

4x Aether Vial

//Lands//

13x Island
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Mutavault
1x Tectonic Edge

-I know not having a sideboard is not proper edicate by I am posting from work and keep getting interrupted by work.

-Spreading Seas was mentioned by Mr.Safety and seems like a "neat" piece depending on how things shake out, I think a strong mana denial/disruption could be strong against a lot of the speculated top performers (12 post, 3-4C Aggro)

- I hope I have given enough information to give us something to comment on

Thank You!

Mr. Safety

08-18-2011, 01:44 PM

I'm using Ghost Quarter as the pseudo-Wasteland for 12 post, but having 4x Spreading Seas and 4x Convincing Mirage may be the way to go in this format for anything mono-blue. The land denial is pretty big, and gives you flexibility with your sideboard if you run into something like RDW or Zoo (bringing in your Leyline of Sanctity or Dismembers)

I would also like to see Boomerang in your list...I think it's better than Echoing Truth maindeck, simply for the same reason: mana-denial. If you can keep your opponent off of having their lands, it could be a way to really punish the greedy mana-bases/12-post in modern. Now think Isochron Scepter...no one's even TRYING to break that card yet...

Wereodile

08-18-2011, 01:49 PM

Kamulium

08-18-2011, 02:51 PM

Does Modern affect your Eternal rating in DCI-sanctioned tournaments or does it count as constructed?

Wereodile

08-18-2011, 04:17 PM

I was just over at the mothership browsing the Modern forum and wow, they have no clue what's going on.

Nihil Credo

08-18-2011, 04:22 PM

Does Modern affect your Eternal rating in DCI-sanctioned tournaments or does it count as constructed?
Forsythe mentioned that there's going to be an overhaul of the DCI ratings classification soon.

Worm1605

08-21-2011, 01:24 AM

Really happy about the banned list. It seems WotC is smart enough to support both Legacy & Modern formats. If cards from 1/3 of the games existence became obsolete, it would make the longevity of the game crash. It may even take off some the pressure from all people trying to get into Legacy. Here is hoping, SCG keeps supporting the format.

In regards to nerfing blue, the only players who don't like control are the non control players, right? 30% of the player base prefers blue though, according the mothership a few weeks ago. To me there is nothing better than a 5 spell combo war, that is pure magic. This is way Legacy will prevail!