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Sims
08-13-2011, 11:28 AM
Breaking the forums cherry.

Tooth was always one of my favorite decks for some reason, playing mana ramp and dropping a huge bomb that just swings the game has always been appealing to me so when Tooth was competitive it really was a fantastic time where I actually played standard. This is a rough draft of a G/b TnN deck. It should probably be Green and Blue to support ponder or preordain without having Top around, but the proactive disruption in Thoughtseize and Duress seems more attractive to me than playing counters without Mental Misstep

4x Vesuva
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Verdant Catacomb
1x Swamp
3x Forest
4x Overgrown Tomb

4x Sakrua-Tribe Elder
4x Wall of Roots
4x Eternal Witness

4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Reap and Sow
4x Mwonvuli Acid Moss

4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress

4x Tooth and Nail
1x Kiki
1x Pestermite
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Some other target


Kept the shell fairly intact, and I'm fairly sure you guys know what the deck does, but the basic premise is to play out a early tribe elders and walls, and use scrying, reap, and mwonvuli to ramp you into casting TnN for Kiki and either Pestermite/deciever or Colossus for the win. Fishing so far i've managed turn 4-

Turn 1 post tapped
turn 2 fetch tomb, tribe elder, crack after blocking for forest
turn 3 glimmerpost, thoughtseize, reap and sow for cloudpost
turn 4 TNN

I think turn 4 is probably the fastest teh deck is going to go off, but even a turn 5 TnN after a duress or thoughtseize can be the game.

I haven't even gotten into a board yet, but I'm wondering if this is going to be fast enough to keep up with the zoo style aggro that's bound to rush out of the gates. Would this be better off as G/u?

Thoughts, Concerns, suggestions, death threats?

Mr. Froggy
08-13-2011, 11:48 AM
I think Glimmerpost is an awesome choice vs aggro, might be enough to get you there. Would you consider running Proggy or Emmy?

Admiral_Arzar
08-13-2011, 12:01 PM
I think Glimmerpost is an awesome choice vs aggro, might be enough to get you there. Would you consider running Proggy or Emmy?

I think the Eldrazi version is a different deck, and should be running Primeval Titan and All is Dust, for example.

In this deck, you should replace one of the slower land-fetching spells with Expedition Map IMO. You also really want some way to find T&N, but that's difficult without blue (or playing bad cards like the horrible excuses for tutors we have in this format).

Broham
08-13-2011, 12:02 PM
Sakura-Tribe Elder with only 4 basic lands seems too tight.

jrp
08-13-2011, 12:14 PM
With all those 4-cost ramp spells, you may want to consider some additional 2 cost acceleration, such as Rampant Growth.

kiblast
08-13-2011, 01:22 PM
Probably you may want some kind of board control like Punishment or Engineered Explosives since I expect lots of Aggro and Midrange in this new format. Also Inquisition of Kozilek seems way better than Duress, given the fact that there are no Jace TMS or Fow.

Edit: How about Harmonize ? You don't have any way to draw your TnT otherwise. Also Garruk, Primal Hunter seems a reasonable way to draw some card and establish some board position.

264505
08-13-2011, 04:51 PM
Kiki-Jiki into Emrakul is game more often than Kiki and Colossus. I would consider making that cut. PtE will both be the removal choice for white control and aggro respectively making Colossus a lot weaker.

Koby
08-13-2011, 04:59 PM
Kiki-Jiki into Emrakul is game more often than Kiki and Colossus. I would consider making that cut. PtE will both be the removal choice for white control and aggro respectively making Colossus a lot weaker.

Emrakul can't be copied as it's Legendary, nor will it trigger on being put into play.

Kikijiki + Untapper is infinite damage.
Kikijiki + Blightsteel might usually be game.

264505
08-13-2011, 05:10 PM
Snap, forgot about that small detail. It That betrays is a decent target, but not better than the Colossus. As for Pestermite, wouldn't Deceiver Exarch be better as it is vulnerable to less removal? There are a bunch of options to take this deck. GR and GU both seem viable, but they do different things. I just think control isn't going to be a big enough player to justify 8 discard spells.

Spartacvs
08-13-2011, 06:01 PM
Emrakul and Inner-Flame Accolyte are the best TnN team IMO. 17 points hasty annihilator that is the hardest to answer(doesn't lose to edict, path, needle, or revoker).

SpikeyMikey
08-13-2011, 06:11 PM
Tooth is simply suboptimal. The 12Post shell is better for hardcasting bullshit than it is for Toothing. One, you have no way to tutor for T'n'N. Two, you have no way to hardcast a Kiki or Pester that gets stuck in your hand. Three, Tooth entwined is a really awkward spot in the curve. You need 7GG. 2 Cloudposts is 4 mana, meaning you need 5 mana from other sources in order to cast Tooth entwined. 3 Cloudposts is 9 mana, plus you need at least 2 green mana to Tooth entwined. At that point, you can hardcast Kozilek or Ulamog, either one of which is very likely to win you the game (and more likely to win in the face of countermagic, since you still get a Vindicate/Opportunity instead of just sending your card to the yard). The only time where it would fit decently is 2 Cloudposts and a Glimmerpost with 2 Forests (or Forest and WoR, whatever). But generally speaking, you're better off just hardcasting real threats instead of hoping to draw into your 4-of with no manipulation whatsoever.

Mr. Safety
07-14-2012, 04:45 PM
With Cloudpost gone and Urza-Tron the best land-ramp available I'm working on Tooth and Nail again...and not messing around with hard-casting at all. It's either Tooth and Nail or Quicksilver Amulet to get massive beef on the table. Typical tooth targets are Emrakul and Iona but I've done double Bogardan Hellkite against tokens and Emrakul/Progenitus, Emrakul/Blazing Archon, too.

The best tech is probably Emrakul and Urabrask the Hidden though...better than Through the Breach but only viable through T&N.

Menteith
07-14-2012, 05:12 PM
With Cloudpost gone and Urza-Tron the best land-ramp available I'm working on Tooth and Nail again...and not messing around with hard-casting at all. It's either Tooth and Nail or Quicksilver Amulet to get massive beef on the table. Typical tooth targets are Emrakul and Iona but I've done double Bogardan Hellkite against tokens and Emrakul/Progenitus, Emrakul/Blazing Archon, too.

The best tech is probably Emrakul and Urabrask the Hidden though...better than Through the Breach but only viable through T&N.

How is any of that better than getting Kiki-Jiki and Restoration Angel, and winning outright? Or are you that concerned over Lightning Bolt/Helix?

Mr. Safety
07-14-2012, 09:51 PM
I was playing Emrakul + Iona for the combo win, or just Emrakul + Urabrask. Kiki-Jiki and Pestermite are fine, but as you say weak to removal. Most of the time if I land Emrakul opponents concede.

The hard part is fighting through Blood Moon...I may have to put Angel of Despair in my sideboard, or at least Woodfall Primus.