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sdematt
08-13-2011, 12:07 PM
Well, I figured it'd come up, so I thought I'd be the one to post it.

I'll put more details up when I can in the next few days, but I'm pretty sure Doran-coloured Rock is quite a viable deck in Modern.

Continue the discussion at will!

My deck, as of right now, is:

4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine

4 Dark Confidant
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch

4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Path to Exile
2 Smother
3 Green Sun's Zenith

Rough sideboard:

2 Thrun
3 Krosan Grip
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Kitchen Finks
X Crucible of Worlds

sdematt
08-13-2011, 12:08 PM
Saved

sdematt
08-13-2011, 12:08 PM
Saved2

brianw712
08-13-2011, 03:17 PM
Well my Aggro Rock list from a while back didn't lose too much other than Mother of Runes and Jitte:

3 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Godless Shrine
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Marsh Flats

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Dark Confidant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Green Sun's Zenith

SB:

2 Kitchen Finks
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Duress
3 Smother
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Scavenging Ooze

This list is really good at keeping up pressure, while disrupting with Scullers/Seizes. Also Confidant + Shocklands + Thoughtseize hurts, but so far has been worth it (although I haven't played many aggro decks yet). Teeg is a beast against Hive Mind, Dragonstorm, and Tooth and Nail, I may bump GSZ up to three just for him. SB was kind of just thrown together since I don't really know what's competitive.

RainbowPenguin
08-13-2011, 04:35 PM
Scavenging Ooze is not legal in Modern.

@sdematt: I don't think your manabase is greedy enough. Just off the top of my head, I would exchange one forest for one Horizon Canopy. Why do you want the Ghost Quarters? I think I would replace at leaste some of those with more Canopies or manlands. GQ+Crucible lock out of the sideboard could be strong, but I dont think you really need it, and in situations where you could pull it off, you could likely just have won instead.
If they are intended as an answer to 12-post, I have to say I am sceptical. Those decks will likely have at least a few basics, and they will probably have ramp spells, meaning that your land destruction will not be able to keep up with them playing lands and ramping lands anyways.

Considering Rock in Modern in general, I think you want to be careful not to pack too many answers/disruption spells, since you don't get to play with Top. Especially right now, when the format is relatively unexplored.
If you are going to play Rock IRL, you will likely face a considerable number of Burn decks, so maxing out on Inquisition before Thoughseize might be a good idea.

It seems most people think that G/W/x aggro decks will be very common. Thus, Deathmark should be a good anti-aggro/mirror card. Dismember might be good in the sb too, f.ex. against Magus of the Moon.

sdematt
08-13-2011, 05:30 PM
I don't want to be too greedy due to Magus having super good potential in the format.

Ghost Quarter is used as a pseudo-Wasteland, I'll explain later.

-Matt

brianw712
08-14-2011, 12:42 PM
Yea, I'm not sure Ghost Quarter is all that great in either of our lists, although Matt's list can probably support it better. In Matt's list, Ghost Quarter can't cast Doran. In my list, Ghost Quarter can't cast Qasali, Sculler, or Teeg. I like one to fetch off of Knight in case I need to take care of a Cloudpost or a Mutavault or something, but I think three is too much since most of the time it'll just be producing colorless mana.

A better way to fight 12-post I think is Aven Mindcensor. In both our lists it can reliably be cast on turn two off of Nobles/Zenith-->Arbor, it drastically weakens Expedition Map, Sylvan Scrying, Scapeshift, etc., and it also turns off the searches from Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter. Also with all the greedy manabases in this format, shutting off a fetch can be devastating. I think it deserves at least sideboard slots, I'm currently testing a couple in the main. Too bad we can't really run good equipment to make flying more relevant.

ivanpei
08-15-2011, 04:03 AM
Deck needs kitchen finks md badly. Zoo is going to be extremely popular and between shocks, seize and bob, this deck will lose 6-8 life by t4 easy. Also I think 3-4 tectonic edges are a must. 12 post is a very powerful deck in this format and kotr/tec edges destroys that plan.

coraz86
08-16-2011, 07:20 PM
Have you thought about going the old Macey Rock route and running dorks with trollshroud and equipment? I love GSZ, but it seems like a couple Troll Ascetic and/or Thrun with some swords would be pretty sexy.

Also, if you're that worried about zoo, board Deathmark, and consider Norn's Annex somewhere in your 75. Norn's Annex isn't for every deck, but it seems solid for a deck like this that can easily win in one combat step if they choose the wrong time to try to alpha strike.

brianw712
08-16-2011, 09:23 PM
I think Deathmark is definitely solid against Zoo, though I'm not sold on Norn's Annex. It seems like they'll just pay the life and be fine with it. It costs you your entire turn three and four life. In fact, I think Ghostly Prison is just strictly better (I forgot that was legal in this format).

Just me
08-18-2011, 06:49 AM
After some light testing I think Spellskite is great in this deck.
Treefolkharbinger should have more creature-targets as just itself and Doran, hence I suggest 1 MD Chameleon Colossus.
Treefolk Harbinger can be rather awkward with Dark Confidant when you want to tutor for a beater (cc 3 or 4 in this deck).

GSZ is great but what to play main and SB to use it with is a hard question.

KotR is great but what to play main and SB to use it with is also a hard question

Murmuring Bosk likley should be a 2-3 card since it is great at fixing the mana but 4 is to many I think.

Some pretty sweet draws are possible where defense is solid vs 2 power creatures and then T3 you can swing for 7 with a 5/5 holding the fort.
T1 Treefolk Harbinger
T2 Spellskite
T3 Doran

brianw712
08-20-2011, 03:39 PM
No discussion? I honestly think Aggro Rock could be a major player in this format. New list:

2 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Marsh Flats
1 Razorverge Thicket

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Doran, the Siege Tower
1 Kitchen Finks

2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

SB:

1 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Deathmark
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Rhox War Monk
2 Go For the THroat
2 Dark Confidant

With solid combo matchups due to Teeg + Sculler + Thoughtseize/Inquisition + fast clock and a solid Zoo matchup due to 4 Goyf/4 Knight/2 Doran and more help out of the board, there hasn't been much that I've had trouble beating. The two matchups that I tested against the most were Pyromancer's Ascension and 12-post, and the results have been really favorable for Aggro Rock.

Cocix
08-22-2011, 09:39 AM
Hi everyone... i was testing this deck in modern and these are my opinion about:

I was trying to build a doran-rock with treefolk harbinger cos i found it very good vs the invasion of kird ape / loam lion / goblin guide in mws.
It can also fix mana and became an arrogant beater with doran and exalted friends on the field.

this is my list:

Lands: 21
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Marsh flats
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Horizon canopy
2 Murmuring bosk
2 Overgrown tomb
2 Godless shrine
1 Ghost quarter

Summons: 28
4 Noble hierarch
4 Treefolk harbinger
4 Dark Confidant
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Doran, The siege tower
4 Knight of the reliquary

Spells: 12
4 Thoughtseize
2 Green sun's zenith
4 Path to exile
2 Maelstrom pulse


//Sideboard
3 Duress
2 Choke
2 Thrun, the last troll
1 Bojuka bog
2 Tormod's crypt
2 Gaddock teeg
3 Kitchen Finks


A lot of creatures, i know, but my tests are saying that we need those guys.
The maindeck configuration is aggro-tuned atm but can be modified if we think we are going to meet a lot of combo decks ( +2 duress -1 qasali pridemage -1 doran ).
I've tested against 3 different versions of zoo and the fastest are our biggest problem.
If we can manage the game until the 4th/5th turn comes 99% we have won. Our defensive guys are there to fix the problem!
I've also tested against Hive mind combos, pyromancer ascension combo and Dragonstrom.
Maindeck sometimes a thoughtseize saves our life and post side we put in 5 or more slot against this specific matchup (gaddock teeg fetchable by zenith and 3 duress to rise the chances of an opening hand discard spell).

Opinions? Suggests? :really:?

Sorry for my "English" but it's the best i can do! :tongue:

brianw712
08-22-2011, 10:02 AM
The list looks good. 12 huge beaters is sure to give Zoo a run for its money.

But like you said, a big concern for this list is combo. I personally think combo is going to be a big part of the format, so what I would suggest is -4 Dark Confidant +4 Tidehollow Sculler. I don't like Confidant in a format with a ton of Zoo, especially since we're three colors (have to fetch for shocklands more) and play Thoughtseize. And your list in particular can take a bit of damage from Canopies and Murmuring Bosks. Although Sculler is pretty terrible against Zoo as well, on the other hand it is insane vs. combo, providing both disruption and a clock. So what I think it comes down to is, Confidant is better against control, and Sculler is better against combo, and I think combo is going to have a much bigger presence than control.

The Pharmacist
08-22-2011, 07:53 PM
Deck needs kitchen finks md badly. Zoo is going to be extremely popular and between shocks, seize and bob, this deck will lose 6-8 life by t4 easy. Also I think 3-4 tectonic edges are a must. 12 post is a very powerful deck in this format and kotr/tec edges destroys that plan.

So I've been testing my Rock list and ivanpei is right. We need Kitchen Finks vs Zoo for sure. I was getting rolled all weekend by Zoo.

I understand what your saying about about 12 post being good in this format, but I don't think you can run more then 1 tec edges without hurting your own mana bass.

xeraseth
08-22-2011, 08:25 PM
Azusa + Crucible out of the board for 12 post!

ivanpei
08-22-2011, 11:57 PM
Im not a fan of doran/harbinger/spellskite. IMO this deck isn't that quick so stabilizing is pretty important. I play 3 kitchen finks and they are the best cards in the deck vs zoo. You can also keep gszing then out late game to not die from bob triggers (very relevant). Doran being legendary is also awkward. To milk doran's ability, many lists run skites, harbinger and 4 dorans. Double doran hands are annoying. Treetop harbinger is also really narrow. If you have your doran countered/killed, harbinger is a really crappy wall. I'm also not a fan of kird apes/loan lions swinging for 3 with doran in the deck.

As for the tec edges, im playing 1 ghost quarter 1 tec edge now. Stuff like treetop village and dryad arbor replaced the other 2 lands. 12 post is hard, but that's no reason to mess up my own manabase.

Cocix
08-24-2011, 06:32 AM
I've made some tests in these days and like you suggested i had to say bye to the confidant.
Main problems of my previous list were:

1) Too many self-damage vs aggro decks: A lot of times i had to start with godless shrine untapped + toughtseize, 4 dmg on turn 1 is like a free-fireblast for the opponent, so the bob whitout divining top is very dangerous.

2) Too many CC3 to deal with: 4 doran 4 reliquary 2 Pulse. Double Doran hands with a reliquary and whitout cc1 spells are awful. I need to fix the mana curve to have a bigger percentage of opening hand that can do something on turn 1 and 2.

3) Combo deck are sick: Duress and sculler are the cure, these spells can also fix part of the point 2 problem.

So, this is my new list i'm testing right now:

Lands: 21
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Marsh flats
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Horizon canopy
2 Murmuring bosk
2 Overgrown tomb
2 Godless shrine
1 Ghost quarter

Summons: 25
4 Noble hierarch
4 Treefolk harbinger
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the reliquary
3 Doran, The siege tower
2 Tidehollow sculler

Spells: 15
4 Thoughtseize
2 Green sun's zenith
2 Duress
4 Path to exile
2 Maelstrom pulse
1 Go for the throat

//Sideboard
2 Duress
2 Choke
2 Thrun, the last troll
1 Bojuka bog
2 Tormod's crypt
2 Gaddock teeg
4 Kitchen Finks

The purpose of the deck is similar to the legacy "junk" version:
-Try do deal with everyone in game1 then, if you have a problem, fix it post-sideboard.-

That's why i keep harbinger main deck, is very useful against goblin guide, apes and so on because even if i have a doran on board i can still trade one harbinger with a lion/ape and keep on board beaters like reliquary and doran himself that are bigger than a sligh deck biggest creature.
Post side vs aggro decks i can still trade thoughtseize with finks to improve the matchup against this kind of decks

Vs combo i have 8 high-precision discard effect and post-side i can increase them to 10.

yesterday testing are the following:
10 games played totally:
(matchup):(win)-(loss)

vs affinity: 2-2
vs hive mind combo: 2-0
vs dragonstorm: 3-1


Sorry again for my "English" :P

brianw712
09-17-2011, 04:21 PM
After some more testing, I think the blue splash is worth considering:

3 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Razorverge Thicket
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Godless Shrine

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Rhox War Monk

2 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

SB:

1 Tectonic Edge
1 Thoughtseize
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Deathmark
3 Meddling Mage
2 Smother

I think the Meddling Mages in the board are worth it considering the large combo presence. The best thing about it is that although there are a ton of different combo decks, Meddling Mage answers, well, all of them. Against Infect? Name Blazing Shoal. Against Ascension or Living End? Name their namesake cards. Splinter Twin and 12-post are a little harder to gauge, but thankfully your discard package means that you can make some pretty good educated guesses as to what they need.

In a meta with no real control decks, The Rock is probably the only viable "answer" deck out there (mainly because most of the answers come with a clock), which is why I'm a little surprised nobody is picking up the deck. Where are all the aggro-control enthusiasts? Don't let the thread die!

Mr. Safety
09-19-2011, 02:02 PM
I'm surprised you mentioned blue-splash but *didn't* mention Gifts Ungiven. I'm using Gifts in a bug-setup that uses Life from the Loam/Raven's Crime along with some silver bullets to shore up certain matchups (Kitchen Finks, Engineered Explosives, et al.) Pretty solid tech, and the lite permission package has helped me along with Vendilion Clique.

I may be playing a creature-lite rock deck with Smallpox, Crime//Punishment, Knight of the Reliquary, and Tombstalker. If I come up with a workable list, I'll share it (provided you want me too, lol.)

Danman
09-19-2011, 09:04 PM
I've been trying the doran build, and please don't write me off as a troll, but I've dropped tarmogoyf from my list. I have a full set so not wanting to spend money isn't the problem. I'm finding in the 2cc spot Skinshifter is becoming my new best friend. I just think he is a fits better with doran, and is a much larger threat early swinging for 8.

Amber VII
09-21-2011, 02:30 AM
With the recently announced bannings to Modern, the format is wide open. Not that the newly minted format was ever limited to begin with. There's an incredible amount of deck diversity as players brew for their first sanctioned Modern FNM events.

I believe Rock is a great choice for the current meta. My local meta is largely unknown, though I expect to see a fair amount of rouge decks, agro, and lots of decks ported over from Extended, Standard, and Legacy. I think combo is significantly diminished, at least until the next piece of tech is unveiled, and control may be on the upswing.

Here's my list.

Creatures

4 Dark Confidant
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Glittering Wish

Removal/Disruption

4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Smother

Lands

2 Forest
4 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks
3 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Crime // Punishment
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Duress
2 Go for the Throat
2 Maelstrom Pulse


The list is objectively very strong. We run the best cards in Modern: Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, and Knight of the Reliquary. Our deck has a very strong game plan against Zoo. Kitchen Finks is a wrench in their plans and we pack superior removal.

My BWG deck is separate from its kin by it's lack of Doran, the Siege Tower. I don't run Doran for several reasons: (a) Doran is not good in multiples (b) KotR is a bigger beater (c) I feel Kitchen Finks is better at stabilizing (d) it gets me out of running janky tech like Treefolk Harbinger or Skinshifter. It may be later on I need a third heavy lifter, but for now Doran doesn't make my 75.

The second key differentiator is Glittering Wish. I play Glittering Wish because it opens up my sideboard. Most green decks have enjoyed the benefits of running Green Sun Zenith. Now that GSZ is banned those decks no longer have a toolbox to turn to. Glittering Wish retains that versatility, at a slightly higher cost, and gives us access to answers like Crime // Punishment and Maelstrom Pulse. Glittering Wish synergizes very well with Dark Confidant, allowing us to place our high echelon spells in the board.

The rest of the sideboard is self explanatory. Duress gives us options for fighting combo. Go for the Throat and/or Smother is additional creature removal against agro. Kataki makes the cut for its awesomeness against Affinity, a deck I expect will be played.