[Deck] GW Hate

[marit]

So the closest format to modern that has existed was the old old extended that encompassed INV/7E and above. During this time, there was a GW "noobstax" hate deck running around on MODO. It was straight up GW and ran a very overlooked card, Root Maze This card makes it so fetchlands won't produce mana until 2 turns after they have been played. In addition it delays any pesky artifacts, and if affinity happens to be a deck then it hoses that too. Here are the main hate cards:

Ethersworn Cannonist
Gaddock Teeg
Leonin Arbiter
Root Maze
Suppression Field
Aven Mindcensor
Phyrexian Revoker
Trinisphere
Thorn of Amythest

Pretty self explanatory, all are good at what they do. The question is in what combination are they best?

The acceleration package also needs to be addressed. Should it run Green Sun's Zenith or Aether Vial? Or both maybe? I don't know, I prefer Zenith because of the Tool box, but there are equally valid arguments for Vial. Here is my current list:

GW Haters

4 Temple Garden
4 Brushland
4 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Root Maze
4 Suppression Field
3 Path to Exile
3 Sword of War and Peace

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Ethersworn Cannonist
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Aven Mindcensor
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Eternal Witness

Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Ethersworn Cannonist
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Gaddock Teeg

Specific Card Choices:
Dryad Arbor: Turns Green Sun's Zenith into a turn 1 mana accelerant, also can hold a sword if the need comes to it.

Ghost Quarter: An inclusion that slipped my mind, the deck has no real answer to 12 post, so this helps to slow them down. Also has great synergy with Leonin Arbiter a,d Aven Mindcensor.

Root Maze: I like this card a lot, it wrecks 3 color decks that rely on fetchlands, and can be very unsymmetrical. Combined with Aven Mindcensor, this can really cripple your opponent.

Green Sun's Zenith: This enables a toolbox approach with creatures, all the while acting as a turn 1 mana accelerant (turn 1 Zenith, X=0 for dryad arbor). Fetches Gaddock Teeg for hate, Fauna Shaman for utility, and Eternal Witness for brokeness.

Path to Exile: The deck needs some form of removal, this or Oblivion Ring work, I'm not sure which is better yet. Also has synergy with Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter.

Sword of War and Peace: This is my favorite sword, pro white and red will be very relevant in this format, and it is a very fast clock. There are arguments for the other swords, you can use what you think is best, but there probably should be some equipment. Did I mention it covers Mirran Crusader's blind spots, and is a 2-3 turn clock.

Noble Hierarch: The deck needs turn 1 acceleration, I think 8 is the magic number, and Hierarch performs that role perfectly, with an exalted bonus.

Birds of Paradise: The same as Hierarch, without exalted. Hierarch is better, but if you don't like the Zenith package Birds works as a second turn 1 accelerant.

Æther Vial: Also a turn 1 accelerant, this can give you a nice speed boost, and work around counter spells. It has poor synergy with surpression field though, but is still a solid choice.

Ethersworn Cannonist: This card is just brutal. It puts a damper on any storm combo decks, and overall is just not a fun card to play against. Root Maze covers the decks with fetchlands, and Cannonist covers the ones with without. Still, might be a Sideboard card.

Qasali Pridemage: Pretty self explanatory, 2 for a 2/2 with exalted that has the bonus of blowing up pesky artifacts (especially Æther Vial). I don't think I would run less than 3.

Aven Mindcensor: This card is just gravy. It hoses Dragonstorm, and is nasty vs fetchlands. Turn 1 accel turn 2 flash in Mindcensor in response to a fetch can be game breaking. Also, it flies!

Leonin Arbiter: Although not in my list, this card is definitely worth consideration. It synergizes well with Root Maze, delaying their fetchlands even longer. Also to note that if you play this deck on Magic Online, you need to click on Arbiter to pay :2:, and then fetch, or else you can not search your library. Lucky for you, many of your opponents will mess this up and they will Stone Rain themselves =D.

Kitchen Finks: This card is also nuts, and probably deserves 3-4 slots MD, with the last in the side. As a 3/2 it trades with relevant creatures, and gains 4 life. Great vs. Zoo and especially Burn.

Mirran Crusader: This card is starting to get a lot more respect that it deserves. The Pro Green and Black are very relevant, making it powerful against Zoo and The Rock. Add equipment and you have a very fast clock.

Phyrexian Revoker: This little robot probably deserves main deck spots, but I am still fiddling with mine. Shuts off half of Splintertwin, Vial, opposing equipment, and many other nasty nasties. And it holds a sword to boot!

Eternal Witness: Is straight up nuts, card advantage to the max. Also tutorable with Zenith, probably warrants more than 1 spot in the main deck, but testing needs to be done.

Gaddock Teeg: Also shuts off half of Splintertwin, shuts off Planeswalkers, Dragonstorm, Deathcloud, and other cards. Good in the main as a Zenith target, with 1-2 coming out of the board for extra disruption.

Fauna Shaman: This spot is debatable, but so far Fauna Shaman has been fine. A good late game Zenith target, it pitches Hierarchs for Witnesses or Crusaders or whatever creature you need.

Thrun, the Last Troll: A control hoser, also helps against removal heavy decks. This spot is debatable once again.

Surpression Field: Moved to the maindeck, this card wrecks the format. Shuts off Splintertwin, fetches, Melira combo, hampers vial, it's just not a card most decks want to see.

Engineered Explosives: This is a mini board sweeper that deals with tokens, and other pesky problems you can't get rid of. A good catchall that deserves consideration.

Chalice of the Void: This could be another Sideboard card. Our two drop slot is low, and Green Sun's Zenith gets around it anyways. Helps with the Living End matchup, so it's definitely worth considering.

Topics of Discussion:

What should the disruption package be?
Aether Vial, or Green Sun's Zenith?
Which utility creatures are best?
What is the best Sideboard?
Planeswalkers, yay or nay?

[marit]

Reserved.

[perm]

I like Root Maze a lot, it definitely belongs in modern. This may seem sort of too much, but have you tried Amulet of Vigor?

[marit]

I like Root Maze a lot, it definitely belongs in modern. This may seem sort of too much, but have you tried Amulet of Vigor?

I did not even know that card existed, but I don't think it's good in this context. The card is incredibly narrow, it only works if I have a root maze out, or with Selesnya Sanctuary (which is very cute). It's benefits are not worth it, I would rather run cards that are good on their own and synergize with the deck more.

[deathsorcerer]

What is this decks plan against the 12 post variants? Cloudpost already comes into play tapped so root maze doesn't affect them as much. Their big robots outclass your creatures and get past Teeg and in some cases Cannonist. Ghost quarter could be an option to slow them down.

[marit]

What is this decks plan against the 12 post variants? Cloudpost already comes into play tapped so root maze doesn't affect them as much. Their big robots outclass your creatures and get past Teeg and in some cases Cannonist. Ghost quarter could be an option to slow them down.

This has been on my mind too, and I was hoping someone else could help me out. I have thought about fiddling with Ghost Quarter, I'm not a fan of the colorless mana but it will probably prove to be a necessary inclusion. On the bright side, Ghost Quarter has good Synergy with Mindcensor and Arbiter if you play him. About to update the decklist. Also, Surpression Field has been moved main, as it just wrecks the format, and Cannonist is moved to the side.

[Admiral_Arzar]

What is this decks plan against the 12 post variants? Cloudpost already comes into play tapped so root maze doesn't affect them as much. Their big robots outclass your creatures and get past Teeg and in some cases Cannonist. Ghost quarter could be an option to slow them down.

Oblivion Ring is definitely an option, as is Journey to Nowhere. Note that Aven Mindcensor messes with Eye of Ugin in the Eldrazi builds.

[Kich867]

Why the bounce land? That sets you back tremendously. You can't play it first turn, and second turn you have to wait until third turn to be able to really play anything.

Even if you turn 1 root maze, turn 2 some other 1 drop + bounce land, turn 3 you still have 2 mana and it doesn't really help.

The land only has the potential to set you back many turns.. I think more basics would operate better.

[UnsungHero]

Any love for Chalice of the Void? Maybe a sideboard card? Stops alot of cards in zoo, and can be ramped pretty quick with GSZ/Arbor and Noble Hierarchs .

[marit]

Oblivion Ring is definitely an option, as is Journey to Nowhere. Note that Aven Mindcensor messes with Eye of Ugin in the Eldrazi builds.
Oring has been in and out, I should probably include it in the choices section. Same with Journey, the only problem is they don't answer Emrakul (as it will be hard casted), and Even though they do answer Kozilek, the 4 cards will probably do you in anyways.

Why the bounce land? That sets you back tremendously. You can't play it first turn, and second turn you have to wait until third turn to be able to really play anything.

Even if you turn 1 root maze, turn 2 some other 1 drop + bounce land, turn 3 you still have 2 mana and it doesn't really help.

The land only has the potential to set you back many turns.. I think more basics would operate better.
The idea behind the bounce land is that since your lands are coming into play tapped with root maze anyways, it bounces a land without any tempo loss. It's been good to me so far, I do see where you're coming from though. It also has been Ghost Quartered before, which is a beating too. I'm going to leave it in for now, but it might get cut. My testing is limited as of now, but as soon as modern is released on MODO I will have more testing.

Any love for Chalice of the Void? Maybe a sideboard card? Stops alot of cards in zoo, and can be ramped pretty quick with GSZ/Arbor and Noble Hierarchs .

I do like that suggestion, also Green Sun's Zenith get's around Chalice of the Void for us. I don't know if it will really be necessary though, as Zoo should be a good matchup between Root Maze, Kitchen Finks and the rest of our disruption package. It does help the Living end matchup though.

[RainbowPenguin]

I don't think a deck like this is viable in modern. Regarding the specific decklist, there are a good number of nonbos: Root Maze with bounceland (yes, it doesn't matter to for the bounceland, but when you replay the land you bounced, it will matter) and Suppression Field with Pridemage, Equipment, Thrun and Fauna Shaman.

Mostly, it will just not be fast enough, or relevant enough - in many matchups, Teeg and Canonist won't matter too much, for example, or the cards won't do anything on turn 3 or later, leading to bad topdecks etc.
Root Maze and Trinisphere are good lock cards, but will not do enough on their own to fuel an entire deck, although Root Maze especially could perhaps be worked into other lists (the format lacks enough ways to dump a turn one trinisphere for it to be good enough, I think), but not as the main focus.

As far as hating on the format goes, 4 Magus of the Moon/4 Blood Moon is likely a better starting place, although I am not convinced that will be viable either.

[deathsorcerer]

Oblivion Ring is definitely an option, as is Journey to Nowhere. Note that Aven Mindcensor messes with Eye of Ugin in the Eldrazi builds.

I would think those first two would be too slow. Tooth variants will probably win as soon as the creatures come in, Eldrazi variants will still have the citp triggers, etc. I agree on Mindcensor not only against eldrazi but also against the land search and primeval titans of green versions.

My best guess as to a possible answer to 12post is LD + a fast clock. So maybe a combination of ghost quarter, loam (for recursion), and goyf/jotun grunt. They're not a fast deck to begin with so I'm guessing that if you can buy ~2 turns it might be enough. The biggest issue with ghost quarter is that it clashes with suppression field.

[marit]

I don't think a deck like this is viable in modern. Regarding the specific decklist, there are a good number of nonbos: Root Maze with bounceland (yes, it doesn't matter to for the bounceland, but when you replay the land you bounced, it will matter) and Suppression Field with Pridemage, Equipment, Thrun and Fauna Shaman.

Mostly, it will just not be fast enough, or relevant enough - in many matchups, Teeg and Canonist won't matter too much, for example, or the cards won't do anything on turn 3 or later, leading to bad topdecks etc.
Root Maze and Trinisphere are good lock cards, but will not do enough on their own to fuel an entire deck, although Root Maze especially could perhaps be worked into other lists (the format lacks enough ways to dump a turn one trinisphere for it to be good enough, I think), but not as the main focus.

As far as hating on the format goes, 4 Magus of the Moon/4 Blood Moon is likely a better starting place, although I am not convinced that will be viable either.
I don't see how Root Maze with a bounce land is any different than Root Maze with normal lands. T1 maze, T2 accel/bounceland, T3 play land have 3 mana available. As opposed to T2 accel/normal land T3 have 3 mana available, looks the same to me. As far the other nonbos go, I'm not too happy with them, either. But suppression field is too good to pass up, and will hurt my opponents more. Pridemages might not be the best option, but paying 4 to equip a Sword seems fine, especially since you will probably be ahead of your opponent. And I agree with the Cannonist and Teeg arguments, that's why 1 Teeg is MD and I moved the cannonists side.

Also it should be noted that suppression field does not shut down activated abilities, only stalls them. Fauna Shaman is a late game Zenith target so by that time paying 3 to activate it will be no problem.

[RainbowPenguin]

I don't see how Root Maze with a bounce land is any different than Root Maze with normal lands. T1 maze, T2 accel/bounceland, T3 play land have 3 mana available. As opposed to T2 accel/normal land T3 have 3 mana available, looks the same to me.


You're right about that, of course. My bad. It still makes the bounceland seem very suspect, since when is it actually going to be better than other lands? When your starting hand only has two lands, and you do not draw a third land, sure, it will get you to 3 mana. But there is a reason they are not very popular. And running them just because they are sometimes not worse than any other land, well..



As far the other nonbos go, I'm not too happy with them, either. But suppression field is too good to pass up, and will hurt my opponents more. Pridemages might not be the best option, but paying 4 to equip a Sword seems fine, especially since you will probably be ahead of your opponent. And I agree with the Cannonist and Teeg arguments, that's why 1 Teeg is MD and I moved the cannonists side.

Also it should be noted that suppression field does not shut down activated abilities, only stalls them. Fauna Shaman is a late game Zenith target so by that time paying 3 to activate it will be no problem.


1) You can't be sure Suppresion Field will hurt your opponent more. Decks like 12-post may not be hurt by it all that much. You may also be on the draw sometimes.

2) What late game? That's another issue. The deck just stalls, it does not really lock other decks out. Most decks running Goyf or Knight of the Reliquary will have guys that are just bigger than yours from the midgame onwards. Yes, you have 3 Swords, but you have to draw them, and many other decks will be running a virtual 5-6 Pridemages, because of GSZ.

3) The card is named Ethersworn Canonist, not Cannonist. ;-)