[SCD] Ancestral Vision

[perm]

Can someone explain to me why it's banned? Are they afraid of blue having too many bad counters in hand?

[KevinTrudeau]

I believe WotC's justification was that because it's currently seeing a bit of play in Legacy, it's probably too good for Modern, which means they likely did little to no testing with the card. It's a safe ban for them, because once they selectively unban it down the road, it's the type of card that would generate interest in the format if it ever stagnates.

[IthilanorStPete]

To quote Tom LaPille:

The last Modern-legal card that has been making a huge splash in Legacy control decks is Ancestral Vision. While not every Jace, the Mind Sculptor deck in Legacy plays Ancestral Vision, a great many of them do. The combination of Ancestral Vision, Spell Snare, and other counterspells lets control decks draw cards very cheaply without getting behind early on, and that's powerful enough that we feel safer having it banned.

I'd say it's a precuationary measure; as they've said, they want to be conservative going into Modern's debut, and they can unban things that wouldn't actually be broken later.

[Lemnear]

Or they use it like they use safe-but-still-banned/restricted-cards on the Legacy/Vintage list:

Exchange them for newly banned cards and brag about how small they keep the List.

[TRS-Jo]

Being conservative is the absolute wrong strategy because bannnig is easier than unbanning.
If a card is played in the format and it needs to be banned, there are lots of indicators on which WotC can decide the banning.
But for banned cards such indicators do not exist. The only indicator there is, is when cards that are better than the banned cards are played but not banworthy.
Bannings are okay as long as there is clear evidence that cards are broken. Banning on assumptions is only okay in absolutely obvious cases like the emergy ban of Memory Jar.

But maybe Wizards is afraid to do the right thing since they allowed Flash in the last Legacy GP.

Ancestral Vision is an absolutely ban-unworthy-card. I cannot see the impact of AV in Legacy Tom La Pille talks about.
The time Ancestral Vision resolves you are dead/almost dead in Modern. Also you can´t chain Vision into Vision. It is a horrible topdeck for any control deck. I could see his point if AV would have maybe CMC 4 instead of none at all, but you never get the cards now in a control deck.

[sporenfrosch1411]

Uhm, Legacy control Decks play them, maybe check that out and then think again..........

[Lemnear]

So ..... Legacy Zoo plays Nacatl ... Maybe WotC should ban it and every modern-legal Card that sees Legacy play? what Kind of Explantation is this? Legacy Control sometimes plays it, so we ban it to be super-safe?

Visions sees play in 2/3 of the stoneblade Decks, that's all and isn't broken in them. It's like we discuss silvergill adept in meerfolk and ban it because of it seeing play and "the combination of it and Lord-effects is powerful enough that we feel safer having it banned"...

[TRS-Jo]

Uhm, Legacy control Decks play them, maybe check that out and then think again..........

I said I cannot see the impact.
This refers to this sentence of La Pille: "The combination of Ancestral Vision, Spell Snare, and other counterspells lets control decks draw cards very cheaply without getting behind early on, and that's powerful enough that we feel safer having it banned."

This statement wasn´t directed at his statement of AV being played alongside JMS.

Also you draw cards on turn 5 the earliest. This isn´t early on anymore. As I said at that time you are already/almost dead. Ancestral Visions doesn´t help you find answers early on. It helps you rebuild after you defended the first waves your opponent has thrown at you.
I absolutely fail to see how Ancestral Vision is powerful. It´s a decent card.

[honestabe]

Black lotus that takes 3 turns to get is fine, but a sorcery speed ancestral that takes 4 turns isn't.... Ok WoTC, you can stop trolling us now

[SpikeyMikey]

I think the real answer here is just that Tom LaPille is a moron. We all work with one. There's one in every workplace, that guy that is so stupid that everyone else uses them as a synonym for idiot behind their back. Well, at Wizards of the Coast, that guy's name is Tom LaPille.

[perm]

Uhm, Legacy control Decks play them, maybe check that out and then think again..........

Dude... 10x as many decks run goyf... try putting 2 and 2 together before making a post

[dahcmai]

They probably took a crap shoot at faeries since it was fairly dominant during it's time and didn't want to being an easy one to throw together and smash with right out of the gates. Bitterblossom was enough damage to cripple that deck anyway, but I guess they wanted to be better safe than sorry on it.

It's far from broken, but it's easier to make people happy and unban a card than it is to make people happy by banning a card.

[routlaw]

When they banned the elements of Legacy Blade Control from the Modern format, they basically nuked the site from orbit (only way to be sure!). If control decks have problems competing in the format against slower aggro to midrange decks (the very decks where Visions comes in and saves the day when both players are low on cards), then it'll likely be unbanned.

Bitterblossom is in a similar situation.

A lot of people hate bannings, but to me it's pretty clear that there will be more bannings than unbannings as the format plays out over the next six to nine months.

[DrJones]

Tom LaPille has already stated in some articles that the effect R&D fears the most are the ones that draw TWO cards for cheap, so I can see why they would be so worried about a delayed Ancestrall Recall.

[Malakai]

Should rename this thread to [SCD] Misguided Rage.

[Wereodile]

Should rename this thread to [SCD] Misguided Rage.

Now Sig'd