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Kanti
08-20-2011, 02:38 AM
Here is Dredgevine!

A graveyard based deck that is based around recurring all Vengevines and Bloodghasts in the graveyard for a kill. It seems like this deck might be the place that Dredge decks are headed after the bannings as Dread Returns leave totally shuts things down. Still Dredgevine has done well in other formats and though Modern is a format that has a lot tougher competition it also has a lot more tools for us to play with.

The format is also lacking in graveyard hate so if Dredgevine were to turn to be the real thing it would be perfectly poised to do so.


// Lands
4 [FUT] Dakmor Salvage
2 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
4 [RAV] Watery Grave

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Bloodghast
4 [GP] Drowned Rusalka
4 [ROE] Enclave Cryptologist
4 [RAV] Golgari Thug
4 [ZEN] Hedron Crab
4 [PLC] Magus of the Bazaar
1 [PLC] Phantasmagorian
4 [DDC] Stinkweed Imp
4 [ROE] Vengevine

// Spells
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [RAV] Glimpse the Unthinkable

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [RAV] Firemane Angel (Zoo, Boros, anything Bushwacker)
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize (Combo, 12post I think?)
SB: 4 [TSP] Trickbind (Uncounterable stifle)
SB: 3 [LRW] Shriekmaw (Triggers Vengevine)

Edit: Updated.

Greenpoe
08-20-2011, 06:46 PM
Looter il-Kor might be good here.

Kanti
08-20-2011, 09:35 PM
Eh, what would you cut? I don't see it being any better than Glimpse or Magus. I would rather add x2 Nim Devourer to take advantage of running Bridge from Below.

slaughtercult
08-24-2011, 07:27 PM
I would rather replace the bridge from belows with extractor demon. Bridges seem too slow in their effect.

Brushwagg
08-24-2011, 07:39 PM
I like where the deck is going, but wouldn't Merfolk Looter be better then Enclave Cryptologist??? No level up needed.

As for BfB is really worth it? I've been thinking it over and maybe the new set will offer something to use it with.

slaughtercult
08-24-2011, 07:51 PM
I like where the deck is going, but wouldn't Merfolk Looter be better then Enclave Cryptologist??? No level up needed.

As for BfB is really worth it? I've been thinking it over and maybe the new set will offer something to use it with.

The cryptologist is used because it is a one drop, triggering VV easier. Also, if you think about it, it can be activated a turn earlier than looter as well. In some games that can be crucial.

My current testing list looks as such...

4 Dakmor Salvage
2 Darkslick Shores
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb

4 Bloodghast
4 Birds Of Paradise
4 Enclave Cryptologist
4 Golgari Thug
4 Hedron Crab
4 Magus of the Bazaar
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine
4 Extractor Demon

4 Glimpse the Unthinkable

Kanti
08-25-2011, 01:49 AM
I will test that list. Drowned Rusalka is sometimes total shit, and some extra mana would be nice. Still the deck needs discard outlets, badly.

I don't see the point in Demon so much. Bridge from Below straight out wins so many matches for me. The card is a total beast versus Zoo. You can pretty much chump block forever and make them point burn at your face or their creatures. If you alpha strike and trade a bunch of creatures you will come out on top as you'lle have a bunch of zombies. It also protects against crap you are bound to encounter in Modern, mass removal, Eldrazi giants, Explosives, etc. It can even make it so your opponent can not attack you for the win as you will chump, get lots of zombies, and untap for the win. Even in your list with the faster Demons via Birds I would test Bridge.

Some weird ideas though. Maybe we should run x4 Phantasmal Image and some Sun Titans for the Sun Titan combo? Probably not, but who knows. Another is to run Trinket Mage and 0cc creatures to trigger Venge easily. This can also open you up to playing a Trinket Mage package.

This is the list I have been testing:

// Lands
4 [FUT] Dakmor Salvage
2 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
1 [IA] Underground River
4 [RAV] Watery Grave

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Bloodghast
2 [GP] Drowned Rusalka
4 [ROE] Enclave Cryptologist
4 [RAV] Golgari Thug
4 [ZEN] Hedron Crab
4 [PLC] Magus of the Bazaar
2 [M10] Merfolk Looter
4 [DDC] Stinkweed Imp
4 [ROE] Vengevine

// Spells
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [RAV] Glimpse the Unthinkable

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M11] Duress
SB: 4 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 4 [NPH] Sword of War and Peace
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

Firemane Angel was sucking non stop so replaced it with War and Peace. It might be better just to add x4 Narcomoeba's here as free blockers and token generators via Bridges. Trickbind was also not too impressive vs anything not Storm or Bubble Hulk, so upped to 5 Discard effects and Cliques.

20 land is right after all. 19 is just too freaking little and mulling sucks with this deck.

I added two Merfolk Looters as even though it is quite a crappy card at first glance this deck really needs Looter effects to get it going. Now I have a total of 10 Looters effects (Magus, Enclave, Merfolk) and I have 10 1cc creatures to get to recur my Vengevines. Drowned Rusalka acts as a fine Looter but it sucks in the early game so it had to go down to two.

Edit: Looter.

Edit2: After some more testing it has become clear that Green 12post is pretty much impossible to beat, Blue being extremely hard as well. The culprit here is Glimmerpost though.

Melira combo is also persistent as hell and they usually combo out with life, so you can shut down close to half of their combo if you could prevent lifegain. I say close to half as they have Redcap as the other half, and their sac outlet can swing for lethal.

So I am going to be testing Leyline of Punishment and Everlasting Torment.

I wish I had the manabase for Stigma Lasher.

Kanti
08-27-2011, 02:51 AM
Bump.

I'm not sure even running Dredge cards past Salvage are the way to go. You want to maximize on your Vengevines which means you have to either will or discard. I think taking some innovation from Dredge-uh-Vine decks of old t2 would be good. Fauna Shaman is a monster in this deck, probably stronger than Glimpse if you get to untap with it. I run x4 Birds and x2 Hierachs. I'm not sure if Hierachs are worth it. Going up to 4 Glimpses might be better. Phantasmal Image is a beast, acting as Vengevine 5-8.

I don't feel like you lose much speed at all with this approach since you still hit turn 3 double Vengevines. Once a Fauna Shaman chain starts it is kind of hard to lose the game. Having all the 1cc accelerators also means I can run better sb answers. Kitchen Finks is great vs Zoo, Everlasting Tormet is what I'm testing vs 12post since if I stop their lifegain I can go around a single Primeval Titan or non-Emrakul creature. Clique can be cast t2-t3 vs 12post and combo.


// Lands
1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
3 [OV] City of Brass
4 [FUT] Dakmor Salvage
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [IA] Snow-Covered Island
2 [RAV] Watery Grave

// Creatures
4 [7E] Birds of Paradise
4 [ZEN] Bloodghast
4 [ROE] Enclave Cryptologist
4 [M11] Fauna Shaman
4 [ZEN] Hedron Crab
4 [PLC] Magus of the Bazaar
2 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [M12] Phantasmal Image
4 [ROE] Vengevine

// Spells
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
2 [RAV] Glimpse the Unthinkable

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [SHM] Everlasting Torment
SB: 2 [SHM] Gleeful Sabotage
SB: 2 [AQ] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 3 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

Edit: After more testing I am loving this build but I do miss the power of running x4 Glimpse and x4 Thug. not running any actual Dredge cards weakens Bloodghast and Bridge a little bit since they are harder to bin. You are more all out on Vengevine. With that said Fauna Shaman is amazing and so is Phantasmal Image. Still I'm not sure on the exclusion of Thug.

Mr. Safety
08-29-2011, 08:34 AM
Wouldn't Oona's Prowler be a good discard outlet? I tend to like it better than Hedron Crab, but crab is a 1-drop, so it gets active sooner. I just know that Oona's Prowler alongside Fauna Shaman is the engine in my reanimator deck.

Kanti
08-29-2011, 01:13 PM
Oona's is good but not as good as Fauna or Magus.

I have been thinking of cutting images but I don't know. I'm playing my last list just x4 Glimpse x2 Image.

I miss Golgari Thug so much. He dredges and is a 2cc creature you can get back at anytime. Stinkweed in unnecessary though. Unless were talking about real life, in which case stinky weed is great.

Brushwagg
08-29-2011, 08:06 PM
I've been toying around with the following list.

Outlets
4x Oona's Prowler
2x Phantasmagorian
2x Zombie Infestation
4x Hedron Crab
4x Fauna Shaman

Dredgers
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Golgari Thug
1x Life from the Loam

Enablers
2x Ideas Unbound
4x Burning Inquiry

Grave Stuff
4x Bloodghast
4x Vengevine

Other
3x Big Game Hunter
2x Grim Discovery

Lands
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Dakmor Salvage
1x Vivid Marsh
1x Vivid Grove
1x Vivid Crag
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Overgrown Tomb


No BfB since there really isn't anything in the format right now to totally abuse it like Dread Return, and Cabal Therapy and Ichorid.

The Outlets and Dredgers and Gravestuff should be straight forward.

The Enablers: Well I wanted something that wasn't Glimpse (I refuse to pay 50 a playset) and still preformed rather well. I did have Goblin Lore and Burning Inquiry but all the random discard was sucking so I went to Ideas Unbound.

Grim Discovery: With the lack of 1 drops sometimes it needed to grab back a crab and a land on top of it can't hurt.

BGH:With the discard a way to kill big creatures and to help trigger VV.

I think this archtype is close, hopefully the new set will offer some goodies.

Michael Keller
08-29-2011, 08:39 PM
I think this archtype is close, hopefully the new set will offer some goodies.

It's already there.

I've been goldfishing a Dredgevine variant for the last three days and I've found a consistent, nasty engine that can go off - or at least do some serious damage (eight-plus) - as early as turn two. I'm playing it next Monday at a local inaugural Modern tournament in NoVA.

I'll post results then. Hopefully they are good ones.

Kanti
08-30-2011, 01:11 AM
Yeah, um, every Dredgevine list running Hedron Crab can do 8 damage on t2. Especially if you run Birds and Images.

Gonna test Thug again somewhere. I don't know if cutting BfB is right but I'll try it. Maybe it deserves to be an sb card but it just wins so many games in the maindeck.

Edit: Good luck at the tournament.

Koby
08-30-2011, 01:42 AM
I've been having minor success with the old Standard list for Dredge-vine. The cards I've found to work well are:

Hedron Crab
Fauna Shaman
Looters/Magus of the Bazaar
2 mana cloners (I use Renegade Shapeshifter, but Phantasmal is just as good)
Extractor Demon

I think the last one is a generally how I win games, and with the right conditions he ensures alone that you can continue keeping your yard stocked.

Sintheros
08-30-2011, 02:01 AM
Phantasmal is better for one big reason.

If RD is my 2nd creature cast this turn, the VVs all return BEFORE RD comes into play, and RD cannot clone VV as a result.

PI however can, because it comes into play AFTER the VVs enter.

Kanti
08-30-2011, 01:56 PM
Innistrad will brind the goodies. I already saw 1G 1/1 creature that gets +1/+1 for each creature in the yard.

We are bound to get something badass.

Another idea is to slap in the Ooza combo. I played a Dredgevine Ooze deck in Ext for a long time and it was great.

Something like http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=9415

Brushwagg
08-31-2011, 07:21 AM
Made some changes to my list and been running a little more smoothly.

Outlets
4x Oona's Prowler
2x Phantasmagorian
4x Hedron Crab
4x Fauna Shaman

Dredgers
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Golgari Thug
1x Life from the Loam

Enablers
2x Ideas Unbound
3x Burning Inquiry

Grave Stuff
4x Bloodghast
4x Vengevine

Other
3x Big Game Hunter
1x Grim Discovery
4x Birds of Paradise

Lands
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Dakmor Salvage
3x Reflecting Pool
1x Crumbling Necropolis
1x Overgrown Tomb

Easier to trigger Vengevine and the mana base is easier to deal with.

Mr. Safety
08-31-2011, 07:31 AM
Is there potential for Demigod of Revenge in this type of setup?

Brushwagg
08-31-2011, 12:50 PM
I thought about it but the 5cc is a bit steep. I usally only get 3 lands and sometimes a BOP into play. Although it might be worth a look at as a 3 of maybe.

Edit:I got to thinking. What about Tombstalker?? Not sure where to squeeze it in but the yard fills pretty fast and there is enough stuff in the deck that won't be missed if it's removed from the yard.

Mr. Safety
09-04-2011, 04:42 PM
You can target what you remove as well...so Tombstalker seems really good. But at that point...Tarmogoyf?

Jodahae
09-04-2011, 08:16 PM
Avatar of Discord seems like the compromise you might want to consider if your looking for something in between Tombstalker and Demigod. Its smaller cmc and the fact that its downside could actually be an advantage to the deck would allow it to be the evasive beater that your looking for.

Brushwagg
09-04-2011, 08:25 PM
You can target what you remove as well...so Tombstalker seems really good. But at that point...Tarmogoyf?

Then this isn't Dredgevine anymore. I randomly thought of Stalker after you said Demigod.

Avatar seems like a slot worth testing as well. Very similar to Stalker.

Pltnmngl
09-05-2011, 12:49 PM
If anybody is going the Crypt of Agadeem route (with Loam, Demon, Etc.), Army of the Damned (Innistrad) could be a decent finisher...

Kanti
09-05-2011, 10:00 PM
Just wait till all of Innistrad is spoiled. Army does seem good though, them coming into play tapped hurts but there might be ways to circumvent that. Flashbacking two Armies seems amazing.

Still not sure this deck will be good anytime soon. It mulls like crap.

264505
09-06-2011, 02:07 AM
The new Liliana could act as some removal and a discard engine for the deck. The concern is that it might be too slow, but this deck seems to be built towards the more grinding game. Until control elements get unbanned or combo elements do, I see this deck on the outside looking in though.

Kanti
09-06-2011, 02:51 AM
Things are getting better. Look at this http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123667&d=1315281856!

1UU, additional cost of exiling 3 creatures from your gy, you may cast this from your graveyard. Pretty nice. There are bound to be cards to improve this archetype.

Brushwagg
09-06-2011, 07:21 AM
There are bound to be cards to improve this archetype.

Oh I agree with this. A card I'm looking at for the SB and want to test more is Raven's Crime. It doesn't matter if it's in the yard and I play Life from the Loam so it can make it better.

@Army: I'm not totally sold on it. The whole comes into play tapped sucks.

Brushwagg
09-30-2011, 08:54 PM
So we have some new toys to play around with here.

Unburial Rites
Forbidden Alchemy
Mulch

I also kind of forgot about Think Twice. Not as good as DA is but it might get the job done. I'm not sure if VV stays in the deck. I'm just starting to brainstorm. But the deck might end up looking more like Legacy Dredge lite, or some kind of weird dump stuff in the yard reanimator. Not sure yet.

Edit: I was looking at Army, and comboing some how with Pandemonium and/or Amulet of Vigor.

Sims
10-01-2011, 01:54 PM
I think going the Panemonium/Amulet route might bring you into an entirely different deck, but it's an option worth pursuing and seeing what happens.

A reanimator style deck might be possible, you do have Zombify, Rise from the Grave, and Unburial Rites... but without buried alive/entomb it might be harder to get worthy reanimation targets into the yard. I'm liking the prospect of some kind of Dredge -> Vine/ghast/ruinator deck... Ruinator seems really strong at being able to dredge him away and then cast him from the yard. You will typically have some chaff in the graveyard that you don't mind removing, but I probably would only run 2 or 3...

I guess it depends on what direction you want to take the deck. Sticking with turbo-ing fat plans/critters to the board or going a different way and abusing fatter creatures/reanimation/flashback.?