[Deck] Mill

[Windux]

Hi,
yes it's a Mill thread for Modern ;)

Here's what I'm thinking about:


4 Hedron Crab
4 Mind Funeral
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Damnation
4 Tome Scour
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Archive Trap
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Path to Exile
2 Disrupting Shoal

4 Marsh Flats
3 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Oboro, Place in the clouds

Sideboard should get cards like:
Disrupting Shoal
Threads of Disloyalty
Twincast (for non-U decks to copy your mighty spells, U-Decks = Counter)

[Greenpoe]

It seems too slow without either Haunting Echoes or additional control elements, although you may want to try Trapmaker's Snare with Ravenous trap (takes care of Emrakul), or Merchant Scroll (to grab Archive Trap or cards like Cryptic Command).

[mishrazz]

I ran a very similar list in a Legacy mill thread, but decided to transform it into modern instead, because of better matchups.

I used to run a Animate dead to steal fattys from opponents grave, but Animate is not a modern card. Anyone know of a card that would pretty much the same thing as Animate dead?

I hope the Mill deck can find a place in modern, and kick some serious ass!
Thanks.

[TsumiBand]

In my experience, the only milling strategies that weren't bolstered by Storm counts and were also effective always included Sanity Grinding. It would be difficult to play such a card *and* run Black, but I think one would find that its effect is simply too good to pass on. It plays well with other big Blue cards in the format that are likely to see play, Cryptic Command comes to mind as does any given incarnation of Jace.

[4eak]

As much as I'd like to see Mill become a real deck, barring any fabulous anti-aggro/burn cards being printed, I just don't see this deck being even remotely viable in Modern.

When Goyf and KoTR are predominant cards in the metagame, this strategy doesn't work well. Milling amplifies their damage too effectively. With just one of these creatures on the other side of the table (let alone multiples), you put yourself on a 2-5 turn clock just by engaging in the milling strategy. Obviously, it only gets worse against recursive decks.

Mill is a bad burn deck, burning cards instead of lifetotals. Unfortunately, you really want to be attacking lifetotals (not libraries) in a format filled with shocklands/fetches, where everyone regularly loses 4-7 life from their own manabase. Lava Spike becomes comparatively stronger in Modern (than it is in Legacy) because instead of the burn card being worth 3/20 of your wincon, it becomes more like 3/16 to 3/13. These proportional gains in strength of burn make it so that Mill-strategies can never reach the card nor mana efficiency of the far more consistent gameplan that is beatdown and burn.


peace,
4eak

[mishrazz]

Pessimists does'nt make winning decks, creative optimists do. :tongue:
A modern mill deck can kill you turn one. I'd like to see a burn deck do that.
Island - tome scour - 4 archive traps. Very unlikely ..well, yeah. But i have finished games turn 3 several times. I agree that Burn is not a great matchup, but a creature deck is no reason to fear. For we have the mighty Hedron Crabs :laugh:

Do you think the first people who saw the Hive Mind card thought "now THIS card is gonna take me to the Legacy finals!" ..of course not. The card is rubbish if you don't know how to use it right.
Anyways.. i say the glass is half full, i and i say modern games will be won by milling!

[4eak]

Surely you aren't claiming that pessimism is always incorrect or that people who make winning decks never have pessimism about at least some decks. I certainly could be wrong (and my first phrase points out that I'd be glad to be wrong, I hope), but you don't even try to address my actual argument. Address the issues I brought up if you want to convert me.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm pointing out what I think are serious, fundamental problems - problems that don't look like they can be corrected for now. For example, you need to be able to explain why you should, in a competitive sense, play this deck over burn, sligh or zoo (outside of budgetary constraints!).


peace,
4eak

[Maveric78f]

I think that Mill can finish on turn 4-5 quite consistently. It's a way to win that is quite difficult to hate out. If thjere is a format where milling could be a viable strategy, it's definitely modern. But I'm not one of those who would like to see it happening, because Mill is just as dumb as burn, even more if you ask me, since you don't even have the choice to kill creatures.

[Mr. Safety]

I think you need a source of lifegain in order to be competitive vs. aggro, burn, and combo. You have blue and black available, so you can sideboard/maindeck cards like Inquisition of Kozilek and Duress, and you have permission available like Rune Snag, Mana Leak, Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, and Cryptic Command. Combo should be fairly easy.

Essentially, it needs to be a control deck with a mill win/condition. That means you can essentially drop down to 4 Glimpse, 4 Mind Funeral, 4 Archive Traps, and 4 Hedron Crabs for your offense. You can drop the Tome Scours for more control, and work in Jace Beleren or the Traumatize/Haunting Echoes combination.

Other cards to consider:

Shelldock Isle
Sanity Grinding
Memory Erosion
Twincast
Ponder
Jace, Memory Adept
Howling Mine
Darkness


Good luck!

[sourcefire]

As stated above, I think mono-blue Sanity Grinding is the best bet for a modern mill deck. I'd probably start with the following list and go from there:

4 Sanity Grinding
4 Twincast
4 Archive Trap
4 Cryptic Command
2 Trap Maker's Snare
2 Ravenous Trap
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Boomerang
4 Eye of Nowhere
2 Vendilion Clique (admittedly a flex spot)
4 Plumeveil
3 Shelldock Isle
19 Islands

Boomerang/Eye of Nowhere slows down the citp lands in 12-post, buys you time against the aggro decks and adds to the U mana symbols for Grinding. Plumeveil was a Sanity Grinding staple back in Standard and is obviously strong against the zoo test. Clique is probably the wrong choice there - maybe new Jace or Hedron crabs with a fetchland mana base?

If you can twincast an archive trap on a turn 2 opponent's fetchland and turn your Visions into Ancestrals, it can get silly. However, if 12-post is tier1 in the format and is running 3+ eldrazi, I don't seem this being competitive even with the mainboard Ravenous Trap and Trapmaker Snares.

[Mr. Safety]

Which is why Ghost Quarter is a neccessary evil. I'm currently using 2 GQ's and 1 Tectonic Edge in any control deck I build, at least until a better source of hate becomes evident or printed.

EDIT: I really like Visions of Beyond in this setup! In the u/b version, I think it's better to just use Ponder (or probably Peer Through Depths). Drawing 3 cards is good no matter what format you're playing, and a mill setup does that in the mid-game EXACTLY when you need it most. Nice.

[firstshot]

How do you plan on beating a 12post deck w/ 3 maindeck eldrazi?

[mishrazz]

How do you plan on beating a 12post deck w/ 3 maindeck eldrazi?

Sadistic Sacrament. Memoricide. Leyline of the void. Surgical extraction. Extirpate. And so on..
This is also why i prefer the U/B version of mill. Glimpse, mind funeral, and damnation are also great reasons.

[Mr. Safety]

Sadistic Sacrament. Memoricide. Leyline of the void. Surgical extraction. Extirpate. And so on..
This is also why i prefer the U/B version of mill. Glimpse, mind funeral, and damnation are also great reasons.

Ditto, what he said. Add to that list Cranial Extraction

[mishrazz]

My current list also runs 2 maindeck Ghost Quarters. Great against eldrazi post, and another way to abuse Archive Trap. Sadistic sacrament, Leyline of the void and Ravenous Trap are other key cards in this match-up.

[KZhang]

Before i say anything, i know that mill is an extremely hard archetype to play. However, with combo out of the way, (most likely), and aggro becoming more popular, it could be possible that a deck like this could be worth trying out.

the core of this deck is snapcaster mage & archive traps fueled by visions from beyond. it plays like an average control deck, with counters, bounce, cliques and shackles.

(im assuming you can play the trap cost even when its in your graveyard?)

The only dedicated mill cards in this deck will be archive traps.

a sample decklist will be something like this.

4 x snap caster mage
3 x vendillion clique

4 x visions of beyond
4 x archive trap

3 x sword of body and mind
3 x jace the memory adept
2 x vedalken shackles

4 x rune snag / Mana Leak
3 x spell snare
4 x remand
3 x repeal

23 x lands (mixture of possibly mutavaults/tectonic edges)

there could be a possibility of going monoblue faeries in here, running sss and dropping some amount of remands, SCM or rune snag/mana leaks.

though i am very tempted to splash white for PtE to further fuel the archive traps.

shall test out something like this on mtgo once inn is released. thoughts?

PS: im not too sure how to use deck tags.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Once we hit an archive trap, its probably not too difficult to get full milage out of VoB. SCM helps to fuel this engine, as well as functioning as a sword carrier.

[Sims]

I don't believe you can play the traps alt cost from the graveyard. Snapcaster gives the spell flashback where flashback cost is = to it's casting cost. You can't pitch a card and pay 1 for FoW from the graveyard with Snappy or Past in Flames, so I don't believe the traps are any different.

[4eak]

Mill threads merged.

-4eak

[mishrazz]

I agree that with 12 post eldrazi and too fast combo out of the way. The mill deck might just kick some ass. I have been playing this list for a little while, and in my opinion the deck should be played like a burn deck rather than control style. It has a pretty steady 3-6 turn kill.



CREATURES (4)
4 Hedron Crab

SORCERIES (16)
4 Mind Funeral
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Damnation
2 Tome Scour
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

INSTANTS (16)
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Archive Trap
1 Trapmaker’s Snare
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
1 Cryptic Command

ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Mesmeric Orb

LANDS (22)
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Marsh Flats
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Terramorphic Expanse

SIDEBOARD
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ravenous Trap
3 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Spell Pierce