PDA

View Full Version : [Deck] Zur, the Enchanter



Phoenix Ignition
09-09-2011, 07:20 PM
I made a similar deck in Legacy (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12181-Deck-Zur), and it ports very well into Modern.
Before the discussion, here's
The Deck.

3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Zur the Enchanter
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Snapcaster Mage

2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Detention Sphere

2 Far Away

3 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
4 Remand

1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Celestial Colonnade
4 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Tectonic Edge


Sideboard
4 Thoughtseize
2 Rest in Peace
3 Dismember
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Blind Obedience (Splinter Twin, eggs, burn)
2 Stony Silence (GR Tron, Affinity)
1 Detention Sphere
1 Circle of Protection: Red

Sideboard is super flexible with access to many different enchantments depending on your metagame. Here are some possibilities you may want:

Liliana of the Veil
Spellskite
Runed Halo
Declaration of Naught
Spirit Mantle
Shielding Plax
Nevermore
Stony Silence
Bribery
Telemin Performance
Mindbreak Trap
Duress
Go for the Throat / Shriekmaw (you take out Bob in any game you need this in anyway)
Memoricide/ Cranial Extraction
Mark of Asylum
Wheel of Sun and Moon
Luminarch Ascension
Story Circle
Meddling Mage



Why play this deck?

Modern's metagame varies almost as widely as Legacy's. No particular deck can have an answer to everything, but this deck does it's best to. Zur gives you access to powerful enchantments that will be able to put you so far ahead if you ever get to swing with him that he wins the game by himself. Besides that, enchanting Geist of Saint Traft with Steel of the Godhead should take care of almost any "fair" deck by itself. Playing white gives you access to great disruption and sideboard choices, like Aven Mindcensor, Path to Exile, Meddling Mage, Ghostly Prison, Stony Silence, and Rest in Peace. Playing blue gives you access to Remand, Negate, and Vendilion Clique as ways to stop other decks from doing unfair things. Azorius Guildmage might not look like much, but his ability counters everything from Fetches to Karn activations, while being able to tap out fatties from Tarmogoyf to Emrakul.

Zur requires many correct choices to play, but gives you the tools to handle any deck, if done correctly.

Finally, Zur is a control deck with a positive matchup against Tron (at least in my testing on MTGO I've won all daily matches against them).

Phoenix Ignition
03-20-2013, 02:58 PM
Saving for future use. Also, updated the original list quite a bit, due to much playtesting.

Anusien
03-20-2013, 06:28 PM
So there are only 2 disruptive enchantments: a single Threads and a single Detention Sphere. The rest of the time you can get Zur up to a 5/8(!)

I don't think Zur is any good in this deck.

firebadmattgood
03-20-2013, 06:39 PM
Yeah, why is Zur in this deck? So I can tutor up a threads/dsphere on turn 4 if I land a deathrite and if I protect Zur and if I'm not currently playing against combo?

Phoenix Ignition
03-20-2013, 06:44 PM
Most of the better disruption Enchantments are in the sideboard (Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Ghostly Prison, CoP:red). These are, however, dead cards against 80% of decks and instant-wins (almost) against the other 20%. You could run a 1-of main for these if you knew your metagame well enough, but yeah, I agree the disruption doesn't hit until games 2 or 3.

I think you do underestimate how good a 3/6 Lifelink Unblockable is in this format, and especially a 5/8 Lifelink unblockable. That alone can beat a lot of decks that try to damage race you. It is very common, though, to swing with Zur + other UW creature and enchant that one (typically best with a Geist). Other than that, swinging to deal 1 and stealing a Goyf/Bob/DRS/whatever else is a huge tempo swing, and it's not like you don't still get to use your mana on the swinging turn. Swinging for 1 and Exiling a fresh Wurmcoil is also game changing. Yes, these aren't game over moments for other decks, but how much card advantage does he need to generate to put the win out of reach for the opponent? Stoneforge Mystic was banned in this format, and equipping a Steel to any UW creature is almost as good as putting down a Batterskull anyway.

I know you specifically know this deck from legacy, so you should know that Pemmin's Aura wasn't the kill-con of the deck there. Counterbalance was great and all, but a watered down Zur deck in a watered down Legacy format may still be worth playing.

Anusien
03-21-2013, 12:56 PM
Counterbalance was the key reason to play that deck. Also, I never found the Zur deck to be good in non-blue matchups; you went way over the top of the other Counterbalance decks, but I was a giant dog to attacking decks.

I get how good putting Steel of the Godhead on a Geist is, but it just seems like Batterskull is doing 80% of what you're asking.

Phoenix Ignition
03-25-2013, 08:11 PM
Report for a Daily I just played in:

Round 1: nizuzen with UW control (with Sun Titan, Cryptic Command)

Game 1: I keep a pretty decent hand, but miss a couple land drops. Geist of Saint Traft on turn 3 gets in there, and I'm able to Path a Snapcaster to keep him alive, but eventually his 2nd Snapcaster kills Geist off (after Tec Edging the Eiganjo). He stabilizes at 2 life and I draw all lands. We trade some spells/creatures for a bit and his board starts to look pretty good (double Kitchen Finks). My hand consists of Steel of the Godhead + Shielding Plax (damn you dead cards!), but eventually I'm able to stick a Zur against his 3x Kitchen Finks + Sun Titan + wall. I load up Zur with the previously dead cards, making him a 3/6 hexproof lifelink unblockable who fetches me up a Sphere for 3x Kitchen Finks. Eventually, though I'm unable to race his Colonnade + Sun Titan after he D-Spheres my own Steels.

SB: in: 4 Thoughtseize
1 D sphere
1 RiP (I like the 1-of against Snap+sun Titan and maybe even a Finks, but no need for 2)
out: 1 Steel of the Godhead (not trying to race, him really)
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Remand

Game 2: My hand of Thoughtseize + 2 Tidehollow Sculler + 2 Vendillion Clique beats the crap out of his hand of 4 lands, Cryptic Command, Path, and Resto Angel. I kill him on turn 5 before he casts a spell.

Game 3: Hand: 2x Thoughtseize, Tidehollow, Geist, and some other things. CiP tapped lands make me able to only Thoughtseize on my first 2 turns, but again that's plenty against him. Geist lands turn 3 and his hand continues to be ripped apart. The only spell he casts is Negate on my turn 4 Serum Visions.

Games: 2-1
Matches: 1-0

Round 2: Maxinger with GU Infect
Game 1: Keep a hand with 2 lands, remand, 2x Zur, Geist, D-Sphere. He gets 2 Inkmoth Nexus' and I don't hit a removal so lose.

SB: in: 2x Dismember
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Threads of Disloyalty
4x Thoughtseize
Out: 4 Remand
1 Geist
2 Zur
1 Shielding Plax

Game 2: Keep a 3 land, 1 Deathrite Shaman, 1 Serum Visions, 1 Path to Exile, 1 Geist hand. Get a turn 2 Geist down, eventually the game comes down to me being 1 mana shy of both removing a card from his hand and pinging him with Shaman from 4, to win on the next turn. I play the hand hate and lose on his turn anyway due to another pump spell drawn.

Holy god how I hate Inkmoth Nexus.

Games: 2-3
Matches: 1-1

Round 3: _Goblinlackey with Scapeshift
Game1: Keep 4 land, Serum Visions, EE, Zur hand, draw only a Path to exile and 4 non-Tec Edge lands before he plays his entire land. He doesn't find Scapeshift for a while, though, so I land a Zur and he just tries to topdeck for a while, but the 5/8 Lifelinker gets there.

SB: in 4x Thoughtseize
1x D-sphere
1x Rest in Peace
out 1 Shielding Plax
1 Steel of the Godhead
4 path to exile

Game 2: Keep a 2x thoughtseize +5 lander... dunno about that one. It gets worse when I draw a Tidehollow Sculler and then 5 more lands in a row, but he draws equally horribly and kept the 5 lander + Izzet Charm + Sakura Tribe-Elder. Eventually he starts to actually just ping stuff with Valakut and land drops, but I tec Edge him. It gets more awkward when he actually can just start swinging through with a Sakura for around 5 turns, but I land a Clique and eventually kill him off with Geist. He drops a Primeval Titan, but with my Tec Edge up and him at 4 staring down a Geist, it's not looking great for him. What a freaking weird draw for both of us.

Games: 4-3
Matches: 2-1

Round 4: Enric with Rug Delver
Game 1: keep 2x Zur, 1 Remand, 1 path, 3 land hand. I Path his turn 1 Delver when it flips revealing Spell Pierce. Then I Path a Goyf, and Tidehollow eats a card in order to get bolted. He lands a Clique and I land a Zur and we trade swings. I take the Clique hit as I'm at 11 and only don't know 2 cards in his hand. I suit up Zur with a Shielding Plax and have mana up for another Path. He isn't able to come back from Zur's life swings.

SB: IN: 2 Dismember
1 Threads
1 Stony Silence (lots of these play Shackles)
Out: 2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Aven Mindcensor

Game 2: Keep 2 land, 1 Path, 1 Dismember 1 remand, 1 Geist, 1 steel of the godhead hand. Dismember his on the play delver, in case he has spell pierce. I drop a shaman which gets bolted, and he gets the turn 3 Bloodmoon on the play. I can't come back as I only have a plains and a bunch of Mountains.

SB again: in 1x D-sphere
2 tidehollow sculler
2 thoughtseize
out: 4 remand

Game 3: Mulligan the 1 lander, keep a 4 land, 1 threads, 1 zur hand. Not the best but I can't go to 5 and hope to win with discard. Luckily he doesn't have the turn 1 delver again. Turn 2 goyf gets Threaded, and then Zur gets Deprived. He lands a delver and flips it, and gets a snapcaster in for Serum Visions. I get a geist down with Eiganjo Castle for a little back up, making his blocks a little harder. He is at 10 while I'm still at a healthy 17. He drops to 2 life and takes out my Geist. I tec edge his only red source, leaving him with some less-than-great Snapcaster options and a lightning bolt in hand. He runs out the snappys without finding a red source. I then drop the Creeping Tar Pit, leaving him little options other than to concede after not finding a red source yet again.


Games: 6-4
Matches: 3-1

Thoughts:
So overall I really like Zur against the non-white aggro decks and heavy control decks. Even though he can just eat a removal and be 1 for 1ed, I run so many annoying creatures that they are usually pretty light on removal. I think it comes down a lot to how early you try to get him down. If you haven't seen their hand yet it's not a good idea to just curve out with him at 4 mana.

He also gives you a reason to play Steel in the maindeck. I know that sounds silly, but Steel on Geist is one of the best creature + card combinations in modern, and the fact that you can easily get that out by turn 3-4 is kinda ridiculous for most decks to handle.

The worst card in the maindeck is easily Shielding Plax and I keep toying with the idea of just putting it in the sideboard or not playing it at all since I have lost games with it sitting in my hand. Also, 2 Zur hands against non-blue decks can be a bit like "Well... guess I mulliganed to 6" but at the same time, he's a decent blocker and if he eats a path you're probably okay with the 2nd in hand.

So overall changes I think I'm going to do this to the main:
-1 Zur
-1 Shielding Plax
+1 Deathrite Shaman (I honestly don't like this card in this deck as much as in other decks, but everyone just kills him so quickly that I'd rather play him just to get the basic land or rid of their bolt)
+1 Aven Mindcensor (all the unfair decks search their library for stuff. The fair decks generally have flying dudes I need to chump/kill)

Instead of those 2 slots I'm toying with the idea of baby Jace, Supreme Verdict, or more cliques/mindcensors.

I'll keep posting back here as testing progresses. Very fun deck though, and that's honestly the most important part for me.

kombatkiwi
03-26-2013, 09:41 AM
Seems cool, nice finish.
Geist + Steel is really sweet.
How do think this would work in a shell with Tallowisp instead of Zur? (Obviously you would need to rework the whole deck and not just make a straight swap of those cards)

Phoenix Ignition
03-26-2013, 12:27 PM
How do think this would work in a shell with Tallowisp instead of Zur? (Obviously you would need to rework the whole deck and not just make a straight swap of those cards)

Tallowisp wouldn't be as good. There aren't many usable spirit/arcane spells, and trying to load up a deck with them seems kinda bad. Zur has the benefit of being out of bolt range and being a 1 time investment that lets you still cast other things and keep up your mana (or just bash with colonnade). There aren't a lot of game-changing enchantments that you can find, but having to pay for them and having them not pull off as much (I wouldn't play Steel of the Godhead on a mono-white creature unless I was desperate) just isn't as good.

DragoFireheart
03-26-2013, 03:35 PM
I love the idea of putting a Godhead on a Geist.

Are there any other Modern legal enchantments worth putting into this deck?

Phoenix Ignition
03-26-2013, 03:56 PM
Probably not in the Main. I wish we had Bitterblossom, but that's not happening. Under the sideboard I put a list of playable cards, 1/3 of them enchantments. Some of them could certainly see particular instances where they would be good in the main. Story Circle is rarely useless (but highly inefficient), Nevermore can always hit something, Luminarch Ascension is pretty decent but you'd have to hope for no fast decks. I've also played Security Blockade main because against decks with edict effects it's not bad. I think there should probably be more than just Steel and Detention Sphere as maindeck tutorables but you would probably be surprised how often those win on their own.

DragoFireheart
03-26-2013, 05:10 PM
Here are some suggestions in case you maybe missed something:


Rule of Law
Spreading Seas
Wind Zendikon
Trade Routes
Terra Eternal
Greater Auramancy
Phyrexian Arena
Ardent Plea
Hyena Umbra
Militia's Pride
Copy Enchantment
Arcanum Wings
Guardian Zendikon

DragoFireheart
03-26-2013, 07:34 PM
I have confirmed with some friends of mine that Geist of Saint Traft + Steel of the Godhead would make them rage quit.

hamster
03-27-2013, 05:10 AM
This might be a stupid question, but if the main goal is to get a Geist out with a Steel of the Godhead attached to it, why not play more Steels and cut the Zurs all together? If the 3x Zurs were 2 extra Steels + something else they would hit the table 2 turns earlier. That seems a lot more scary to me than durdeling around with a 1/4 4 mana pinger.

I understand the benefit from having a toolbox in the SB, but I also wonder if stuff like Rest in Peace and Blind Obedience does anything when they come into play turn 5 off of Zur. It seems to me that the matchups where those cards are relevant in would be over by then.

DragoFireheart
03-27-2013, 06:23 AM
This might be a stupid question, but if the main goal is to get a Geist out with a Steel of the Godhead attached to it, why not play more Steels and cut the Zurs all together? If the 3x Zurs were 2 extra Steels + something else they would hit the table 2 turns earlier. That seems a lot more scary to me than durdeling around with a 1/4 4 mana pinger.

I understand the benefit from having a toolbox in the SB, but I also wonder if stuff like Rest in Peace and Blind Obedience does anything when they come into play turn 5 off of Zur. It seems to me that the matchups where those cards are relevant in would be over by then.

Well, you can attach the godhead to Zur as well. Zur will almost never be a 1/4 dork doing the gangnam style. The point was that Zur, when unanswered, will be a 3/5 unblocklable lifelinker generating massive amounts of card advantage and pimping out your Geist in a format where the best cantrip is Serum Visions.

@Phoenix: why isn't there discard in the main? Remand seems sorta meh when you want to protect your Zur from removal.

Phoenix Ignition
03-27-2013, 06:07 PM
This might be a stupid question, but if the main goal is to get a Geist out with a Steel of the Godhead attached to it, why not play more Steels and cut the Zurs all together? If the 3x Zurs were 2 extra Steels + something else they would hit the table 2 turns earlier. That seems a lot more scary to me than durdeling around with a 1/4 4 mana pinger.

I understand the benefit from having a toolbox in the SB, but I also wonder if stuff like Rest in Peace and Blind Obedience does anything when they come into play turn 5 off of Zur. It seems to me that the matchups where those cards are relevant in would be over by then.

Well, regardless of the 2 card amazing synergy of Steel + Geist, that really shouldn't be the main goal of the deck. The problem with that goal is that 1) it's a one-track "combo" that comes out turn 3 or 4 and often can't deal with unfair decks like Infect or Tron. Sure, you get a lot of damage through and gain some back, but yes, having a turn 4 or 5 guaranteed lock piece is good. Even if that lock peace is just a "1/4 hexproof flier who nets 1 enchantment in play per turn."

I mean, I don't want to be rude, but why just read comments and try to glean something out of them like "Hey, so you guys just said X was good, why don't we just take out Y + Z from the deck then???" like it's some massive brainwave.


@Phoenix: why isn't there discard in the main? Remand seems sorta meh when you want to protect your Zur from removal.
I didn't want discard in the main since a lot of what I'm doing here is 2 for 1s. I want to make it so hard to deal with all the creatures that by the time Zur comes down he doesn't have any opposition.

The way I see it, they need to deal with Deathrite Shaman, Tidehollow Sculler (or else they lose their best card anyway, so win-win), Vendilion Cliques, and a lot of decks need to handle Aven Mindcensor. With 13 creatures that they basically have to kill on sight, I'm banking on the fact that if you play Zur at the right time he'll both resolve and get through a swing. You get to see their hand from Tidehollow and Clique anyway.

I like Remand over them in the maindeck because it stalls the game until I can hit my 4th and 5th land drops. It's relevant against all decks, and in the vacuum of Modern cards is one of the most powerful by itself. Playing 5 flash creatures along with Remand instead of discard lets me keep mana up to decide which is the better play, and even cycling remand to just hit more cards isn't bad.

I have the discard in the sideboard because it is good against control and unfair decks, but I don't think it's necessary to play in the main. I also don't know what I would take out for it.

hamster
03-28-2013, 03:46 PM
I love sentences that start with "I don't mean to be rude..". I don't think I wrote anything demeaning in my post, so don't understand the flaming.

I was merely trying to understand the deck and I'm still not sure I get it. But on the other hand, I see no reason to ask any further if the responses are like that.

Phoenix Ignition
03-28-2013, 05:24 PM
Trying out 1x Luminarch Ascension maindeck instead of the 4th DRShaman.

Modern Daily 3-28:

Round 1: xMiMx with black/green/blue infect
Game 1: 2 serum vision, 3 land, geist, zur hand. He thoughtseizes Geist and plays a Plague Stinger. I draw more lands, despite serum visions, and he thoughtseizes another Geist away. He hits me for 6 poison (ground swell + noble hierarch) before I'm able to trade Aven Mindcensor for the Plague stinger, and he drops a blighted agent and another Plague Stinger. I draw a Path finally and have enough to keep up that + Zur. He swings with a pumped Blighted Agent which gets pathed. He proceeds to say "Jesus, the chain sack" I respond with "What?" He replies "nothing just evry [sic] of your topdecks is a little gift from the lord". Then I of course beat him to death with a 5/8 lifelinker.

SB: IN: 4x Thoughtseize
2x Dismember
1x Threads of Disloyalty
1x Supreme Verdict
1x D-sphere
OUT: 4x Remand
1x Steel
1x Luminarch Ascension
3x Deathrite Shaman

Game 2: Keep a 4 land, Thoughtseize, Dismember, Tidehollow Sculler hand. He turn 1 Inquisitions my thoughtseize and i draw a land. I kill his plague stinger on my turn with dismember. He misses his land drop and plays another Stinger, so I drop a turn 3 Geist. He misses land drop but pumps his dood and hits me for 6. I Tidehollow seeing Blighted Agent, Groundswell, and Might of Old Krosa (along with a useless Pendelhaven #2) and take his blighted agent, Pathing his dude on his upkeep. He plays Glistener Elf he just drew but gets it EE'd, and earns a "cant stop admiring drawing 'skills'" remark. Internet rage is the funniest kind of rage.

Games 2-0
Matches: 1-0

Round 2: ceobry01 with Scapeshift
Game 1: Keep a 2 land remand, geist, path, aven mindcensor, steel of the godhead hand. Opponent mulls to 6 and plays basic, basic, farseek. I get a turn 3 geist after remanding his tribe elder, and try to put the Steel on it, but that gets Izzet Charmed. The Geist clock is enough along with some help from Aven Mindcensor.

SB: IN: 4 Thoughtseize
OUT: EE, 2x Path, 1x Luminarch Ascension.

Game 2: Keep the 3 land, serum visions, tidehollow sculler, geist, path hand. Serum visions into another geist and he misses his land drop. He kept a 1 lander with Search for Tomorrow, which is probably too risky on the play. Tidehollow sees 2x Izzet Charm, Sakura Tribe Elder, Pyroclasm, Remand, farseek. I take the Pyroclasm so geist can get there for a turn at least, hopefully. He continues to ramp, my Thoughtseize hits one of his Izzet Charms and he uses the other one to eventually get pyroclasm and take out geist. I play the 2nd geist and that + Aven Mindcensor are enough to beat him. His last turn he gets down a Primeval Titan, but that eats the Path I opened the game with and I hit him for exactsies.

Games: 4-0
Matches: 2-0

Round 3: Thalai with Naya Pod
Game 1: Keep the 2 land, deathrite shaman, path, tidehollow, EE, serum visions hand. He keeps a Fire-lit Thicket + gavony township hand and doesnt hit lands. I path a Kitchen finks when he does. He scoops the next turn.

SB: IN: 4 Thoughtseize
2 Dismember
1 Stony Silence
1 Threads
OUT: 4 Remand
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 geist
1 Tidehollow
1 Vendilion Clique

Game 2: Keep the 3 land, path, stony silence, Tidehollow Culler, Geist hand. He gets down Noble + Kitchen finks turn 2, I get turn 2 tidehollow and take spellskite over 2 walls. I get a Deathrite Shaman down and he hits a Kiki Jiki draw off of his Domri Rade. I have to Thoughtseize it, and play a Geist. He swings for 4 or 5 per turn after he gets another Noble down. I stabilize with a Steel on the Geist, swinging 1 at his domri and 1 at him since he's at a 3 turn clock either way and I don't want him able to fight my guys with the -2 ability. Stony Silence reassures that he can't windmill a pod and beat me, and I draw an Aven Mindcensor to sweeten the deal (and prevent Chord of Calling, if he has that). Geist + Steel gets there.

Games: 6-0
Matches: 3-0

Round 4: Sneakattackkid with Junk pod
Game 1: Mulligan to a hand of 2 land, EE, serum visions tidehollow sculler, geist. He thoughtseizes geist, gets in wall of roots, Kitchen finks, Madcap and I'm stuck on 3 lands falling behind. Gavony Township really wins for him though.

SB: IN: 1 RiP
2 Stony Silence
2 Dismember
4 Thoughtseize
OUT: 4 Remand
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 EE
1 Vendilion Clique


Game 2: keep 3 land, RiP Aven Mindcensor, Path, Steel hand. I draw and dismember his BoP, and play a RiP on his Deathrite Shaman. Aven Mindcensor joins the fun, and I thoughtseize his abrupt decay. Eventually I beat him to death with Geist +Steel, while he scrambles to find lands through Aven Mindcensor's cruel soft-lock on fetches.

SB: IN: 1 RiP
OUT: 1 Zur

Game 3: Keep a 4 land, 1 path, 1 geist, 1 supreme verdict hand. He leads with BoP on the play, I hit another land. He drops finks and I draw a land. I path it on his upkeep. He drops gavony and another bird. Some stuff happens but eventually it comes down to him ripping a pod off the top and me not having any of my 8 cards to make it not retardedly good. I proceed to draw into my 7 lands and lose.

Games: 7-2
Matches: 3-1

Thoughts:
Well another 3-1ed daily. I managed to beat infect this time but I think Plague Stinger is sub-optimal and can't really count that matchup as being "fixed." I'm not too worried about my Pod matchup, even though I lost to 1 of them, it was in game 3 and he did rip his namesake off the top to win. The black version seems a bit harder with their hand hate to help out, but I'm still semi-confident in this deck's ability to handle it. It sucked for me that he had harmonic slivers I had to deal with in all 3 games (usually made him discard it), since I think they only play 1 but if they play multiples then it will be something I'll have to adjust to since it's obviously a great card against this deck.

Luminarch Ascension is a terrible Maindeck, and is going to be cut. I didn't miss Shielding Plax at all today so it might just stay cut. I'm going to have to think of what to put in the flex-slot that would be a good all-around card. Aven Mindcensor #4 is an option, but I'll have to consider adding back the 4th Zur (he's great against Pod, if you can get a little disruption at the start) or possibly a Lingering Souls even though I beat Infect and haven't run into affinity for a while.

DragoFireheart
03-28-2013, 07:15 PM
Lingering Souls seems like a great choice. Gives you some reach, can chump block while you set up Zur, etc.

Phoenix Ignition
03-28-2013, 08:20 PM
Lingering Souls seems like a great choice. Gives you some reach, can chump block while you set up Zur, etc.

I was playing it originally and it got cut one by one. It's a decent card but against things like Pod it doesn't help very much (the whole problem is if they get a Birthing Pod online it doesn't make a difference that you have 1/1 tokens). Against things like Tron and Scapeshift they just Pyroclasm and you're pretty S.O.L. I like Mindcensor because it's a blocker against Inkmoth or similar creatures, and shuts down parts of the unfair decks.

I'll consider it, but I've been really happy with all my Mindcensors today and think it's probably the right choice in this kind of format.

DragoFireheart
03-29-2013, 10:58 AM
I dunno, Mindcensors and Sculler just seem underwhelming. There has to be better choices.

Snappcaster? What about Baleful Strix?

Phoenix Ignition
03-29-2013, 12:32 PM
I dunno, Mindcensors and Sculler just seem underwhelming. There has to be better choices.

They are really actually quite good. You should try them


Snappcaster? What about Baleful Strix?
Snapcaster is okay but I never felt like I really wanted him. Baleful Strix isn't legal, but it's a good card.

DragoFireheart
04-01-2013, 03:11 PM
Oh right, the owl isn't legal.

Phoenix Ignition
04-05-2013, 05:00 PM
Well Gerry T just highlighted my deck (and results from the daily) on the most recent SCG premium letter. It's the shitty list with 1 luminarch ascension. Either way, I assume a sky rocket in Zur prices due to him saying "I already bought my Zurs online" at the end.

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 06:05 PM
Well Gerry T just highlighted my deck (and results from the daily) on the most recent SCG premium letter. It's the shitty list with 1 luminarch ascension. Either way, I assume a sky rocket in Zur prices due to him saying "I already bought my Zurs online" at the end.

Sold out on SCG: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=41893

LOL!

Time to go grab a playset before they spike in price.

Phoenix Ignition
04-05-2013, 06:13 PM
Sold out on SCG: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=41893

LOL!

Time to go grab a playset before they spike in price.

They were already fairly high since they are a good EDH commander and Coldsnap was barely opened. But yeah, glad I foiled this deck a while ago.

DragoFireheart
04-05-2013, 06:16 PM
They were already fairly high since they are a good EDH commander and Coldsnap was barely opened. But yeah, glad I foiled this deck a while ago.

Hey, have you tried testing Dark Confidant in this deck? I just noticed that no one made this suggestion. He'll eat removal long before Zur does if your goal is to have other targets besides Zur.

EDIT: Would it be possible to just take the WUR mid-range shell, shove Zur and some enchantments into it, and test it that way? WUR-Midrange has proven itself to be fairly good deck choice. Even if they kill Zur, you can still drop your Godheads on your Geist and just swing. What do you think? You would only be splashing black just to cast Zur.

Phoenix Ignition
04-05-2013, 06:43 PM
Yes, but the average cost is 1.3 and negligible life gain early on. Most of that average is locked up in 3 cmcs and bolting myself every other turn is bad. Not having SDT and the prevalence of fast aggro decks (mainly mono red and affinity) make bob not a great choice, along with Modern manabases already taking out 1/4 of your total life.

DragoFireheart
04-06-2013, 02:03 PM
I just picked up the cards I need to test this deck. I'm going to test a WUR mid-range Verizon that just has the Zur shell in it (black splash just for him). I'll also be testing the BUW color scheme.

@Phoenix: do you use one of the free MTG online programs to test decks? Maybe I could help you develop this deck further? I think there's a lot of untapped potential with Zur. (No pun intended)

Phoenix Ignition
04-06-2013, 03:52 PM
Adding more colors just seems bad, but go ahead and try it. Tidehollow is quite good, and DRS can win games by himself too (or by making a turn 2 Geist instead of 3).

I have all the other programs but prefer to use MTGO. I don't have time to play paper magic so I'm only really interested in the online metagame at this point, and the easiest way to figure it out is to test my deck in it.

It may be untapped potential but the list I have is good. Room to change a few slots probably, especially depending on metagame shifts since I get a toolbox, but as you can see by the date of the first post, I've been working on this deck for basically the entirety of Modern's existence (and well before that as a Legacy deck).

I think with Gerry T saying he likes the deck there will be a flock of people towards it, since in MTG culture the word of a pro is like the word of a god. It won't be untapped potential for long.

surelock
04-06-2013, 04:49 PM
Would Hoofprints of the Stag be playable in the SB possibly? Would help shore up any attrition matches. But it may be too slow.

Phoenix Ignition
04-06-2013, 05:00 PM
No, that is much too slow and doesn't help against any matchups. Luminarch Ascension is slightly better than it, but still terrible overall.

GerryT
07-03-2013, 03:05 AM
Writing about my own take on this deck this week. I hope you approve. :)

Phoenix Ignition
07-04-2013, 01:05 PM
Cool, I'll be interested in any further development. I'll post a link to it in the OP.

I've been too busy recently to test further on the deck, but the OP is always the current version.

Technics
07-21-2013, 09:14 PM
Here is where I took this deck...

2 Vendilion Clique
4 Aven Mindcensor
3 Zur the Enchanter
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Steel of the Godhead
1 Detention Sphere
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
3 Plains
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Suppression Field
2 Mystic Gate
1 Shielding Plax
4 Mana Leak
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Watery Grave
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Fetid Heath
1 Swamp
2 Drowned Catacomb

Phoenix Ignition
07-22-2013, 08:49 AM
You should say how much you liked the changes. What were your results?

It looks like you just did
-3 Deathrite shaman
-1 EE

Swapped Remand for Mana Leak

+4 Suppression Field
+1 Shielding Plax
+1 Steel of the Godhead

-1 land

You took out fetches, manlands, and deathrites because of Suppression Field, I'm not sure I like that. I haven't tested your manabase, so can't speak to whether the fetchland manabase is the best to get the colors you need, but Suppression Field itself seems underwhelming in the maindeck. Black burn + Scapeshift + random aggro decks will be almost completely unaffected by it, tron will be able to laugh it off given an extra turn of landdrops (which you essentially give them by wasting your turn 2 mana to do it), and it only really hurts Pod/Twin. That in itself screams to me that you'd rather be playing it in the sideboard.

If the intent of Suppression field was to shut down opposing fetches and their manabase, then playing Path to Exile over something like Doomblade seems like a poor decision, you're going to be helping them in the area you're trying to hurt them.

Giving up Deathrite isn't the end of the world, but the little guy makes so many unfavorable situations better, whether it landscrew, a reanimating/flashbacking opponent, a control mirror, a death race for life from a burn deck, he just does it all. The amount of matches where he's useful is so high I think he's maindeckable (but arguably the least synergetic card).

Remand over Manaleak is probably debatable, although Remand is much better in a top deck war and "cycles" very well. My main reasoning is the biggest thing you'd want to protect is Zur, and at the point that you can drop him and save a spell to cover him, Mana Leak won't stop anything where at least Remand will draw you a card.

Shielding Plax isn't worth playing, I can say that for sure. I've toyed with the card for ages and have only seen it be mediocre. It won't stop a removal from hitting Zur until after their first turn of him being in play, and is too often a dead card that will lose you games. You don't ever want to have to draw and play it, even on an Aven Mindcensor or Tidehollow Sculler, since you either play it and get 2 for 1ed in response or they needed to get lucky to draw into removal for it anyway.

Phoenix Ignition
08-04-2013, 08:36 PM
Minor updates to the Maindeck (check OP).

Also, GerryT wrote about this deck and gave his take on it.

4 Zur the Enchanter
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Meddling Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Remand
4 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Rest in Peace
1 Detention Sphere
23 land (river of tears, creeping tar pit, etc.)

Basically he takes out Tidehollow Sculler for Meddling Mage, and Aven Mindcensors + Deathrite Shamans for Git Probe and a RiP.

I'm not a fan of either of these choices and was hoping for a bit more. Honestly, Meddling Mage is only good against Tron, and even then it's iffy. Every fair deck and combo deck has ways to kill/bounce him if it matters (including Tron, but they have fewer) to the point where Tidehollow is going to do more 95% of the time. I've played MM before and even with great calls on his card Modern is too full of removal with similar abilities but different names. Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Path to Exile, Dismember, Abrupt Decay, Karn, Oblivion Stone, Pyroclasm, Whip Snare; these are all COMMON removal spells, and I can't think of a single deck that doesn't have multiple removal/bounce spells in it. At the very least, Tidehollow eats one of those and requires an answer to get their other one back. Sure MM can wear a Steel, but that's very seldom going to be game winning (believe me, I've tried)

Gitaxian Probe is something I'd like to hear more about, but feels to me like a cop-out card. You don't need to see what's in the opponent's hand to the point of wasting 4 slots on it, and playing a 56 card deck isn't necessary here. Did he just run out of good cards he wanted to play in the deck?

It seems like he hasn't tested that deck at all, but I guess it was more of a "Theros might have good stuff, let's look at this Zur deck in case they're worth playing."

Phoenix Ignition
10-08-2013, 10:03 PM
This decklist got 5th on a premier event (I think):


1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 River of Tears
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Swamp
2 Temple of Deceit
2 Temple of Silence
1 Watery Grave
23 lands

4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Zur the Enchanter
12 creatures

3 Detention Sphere
3 Disfigure
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Rest in Peace
3 Sleight of Hand
1 Spreading Seas
2 Steel of the Godhead
3 Thoughtseize
1 Threads of Disloyalty
25 other spells

Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Negate
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
15 sideboard cards



https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6044631

A few interesting changes and in my opinion good meta calls right now (Rest in Peace is amazing right now, which necessitates the removal of DRS).

Phoenix Ignition
10-10-2013, 10:41 PM
LSV's thoughts on the deck: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/1339

cherub_daemon
10-19-2013, 08:44 PM
Is there a place for Thassa, God of the Sea in a Zur deck? The trouble is that it will take at least 2 other Zur activations (assuming you have no other U permanents) to hit devotion 5, and that assumes that you're running Threads of Disloyalty or something else with UU in the cost.

It seems like you would run it instead of one copy of Steel of the Godhead, because it's still a way to make Geist and Zur unblockable, with the significant disadvantage of a repeated cost, the significant advantage of being immune to Abrupt Decay, and the unknown impact of conditionally turning into a beater at some point.

Phoenix Ignition
10-20-2013, 12:51 PM
There just isn't a board state where Thassa would be a creature and you aren't winning regardless. I wouldn't take a Steel out as they serve different purposes (pumping +2/+2 for a faster clock is necessary), and unblockable isn't really the reason to run Steel. Also, putting Steel on a Geist is just bonkers.

The Scry 1 is awesome, but I don't know what it would be better than, and it's another card that doesn't help before Zur gets out there and swinging.

Phoenix Ignition
05-11-2014, 02:30 AM
Took this to the GP Minneapolis today with a 6-3 record, losing 2 win-and-in rounds in a row to finish off the day.

List:
3 Zur the Enchanter
3 Meddling Mage
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Geist of Saint traft
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth

4 Serum Visions
4 Remand
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile

2 Detention Sphere
2 Steel of the Godhead

2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scalding Tarn

SB:
3 Stony Silence
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Rest in Peace
2 Spellskite
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Negate
1 Blind Obedience

Round 1: Splinter Twin

So I start this match out with a game loss. In the poorly listed pairings (they had TVs that just scrolled through them, no other method unless your phone had reception) I misread my table number. Me and my opponent (he was on Ad Nauseum combo) get a few turns in and the judge comes over to say one of us is at the wrong table. Turns out the guy grabs a judge instead of just asking "Are you both sure you're at this table?" and since the round started and I'm technically late I have a game loss.

Game 1 (or 2, if you're counting the GL): I keep a hand hate heavy hand with a Path and a Meddling Mage. I inquisition him and see 1 land, serum visions, Gitaxian Probe, Splinter twin, Splinter twin, deceiver exarch, lightning bolt. I take his serum visions, so he's stuck on the 1 land git probe plan. On his turn he doesn't even use Git Probe, instead just playing his land. I Thoughtseize his git probe (he drew another bolt) and eventually Meddling Mage his Lightning bolts. I bash him for a while until he finds enough lands to try to combo, at which point I have a couple paths ready to 2 for 1 him.

Out: 1 Steel of the Godhead, 1 Detention Sphere, 2 Remand

In: 2 spellskite, 2 Negate

Game 2 (or 3): I keep a hand with a thoughtseize, meddling mage, serum visions, spellskite, and some lands. His hand is a couple pestermites, bolt, a bunch of lands, and cryptic command, of which I take the latter. Meddling Mage on bolt starts swinging again, and I land spellskite. We race a bit with his pestermites and my mage until I get a geist down. He tries to continue racing and leaves back a blocker to kill geist but I path it and keep swinging. At some point he has to go for the combo when he has 5 mana up, he flame slashes my spellskite but I negate it. Then he goes through the motions of splinter twin to see if I know what spellskite does. I do, and I don't feel like such an idiot anymore for my gameloss. Well I do, but at least it doesn't matter

1-0 matches, 2-0 games

Match 2: Faeries
Game 1: He's on the play and gets down a turn 3 bitterblossom after remanding my meddling mage. I play Geist while he's mostly tapped out and the race begins. I draw an inquisition and hit a Victim of Night, as I want to eventually get Zur down, even though he also has Vendetta. I swing in with geist to get him to 12 and then 6 since he wants to spend 2 tokens killing geist. I keep making him trade tokens with creatures like Meddling Mage, and a Creeping Tar Pit finishes him off.

Out: 3 Remand
In: 1 Blind Obedience, 2 Negates

Game 2: This game is much longer, as I hand hate him down with double thoughtseizes to just a spellstutter and some kill spells, putting myself at 11 in the process (hurray for modern manabases!). He hurts himself equally much with triple vendetta (thanks to snapcaster) on Spirit of Labyrinth and 2 Meddling Mages (I was baiting the vendettas on them since I had zur in hand). This clears the way for Zur, which hits a bitterblossom with Detention Sphere and then grabs a Steel for a newly played Geist. I bring him from 10 to 1 life, fetching Blind Obedience in case he had the kill spell for Steel'ed Zur, but really I just wanted to win a game with Extort.

4-0 Games, 2-0 Matches

Match 3: UWR control
Game 1: I keep a hand that has geist in it and I'm able to protect it with a Meddling Mage on supreme verdict. I don't know if he had them, but I get there pretty handily.

Out: 4 Remand
In: 2 Negate, 2 spellskite

Game 2: I take 4 thoughtseizing on turn one to see Gideon, EE, bolt, mana leak, and some lands. I take his leak since I want to cast my next thoughtseize to kill gideon. I get a Meddling mage down on bolt, and after bashing him for a while he takes the opportunity to drop EE at 3 when I'm tapped out for a Creeping Tarpit attack. This makes me very happy as I've been saving spellskite and Zur, and am able to drop them both. EE at 3 is sad, and I fetch a D sphere to take it out and allow me to get my higher powered stuff. I load up the meddling mage with a steel to get him out of Anger of the Gods and bolt range (even though I haven't seen AotG and have skite still). I keep negate up while bashing him for a few turns, letting him resolve Sphinx's Revelations 2 turns in a row for x=2 and x=2 while he digs for lands to use his colonnade in a profitable block. I equip Zur with a steel though, and he forgets how unblockable zur is.

6-0 games, 3-0 matches

Match 4: GB midrange
Game 1: This one was pretty aggressive as we both take out each others hands with some inquisitions. He has Phyrexian Obliterators, and I make a note to keep my removal for that. This means I take a lot of damage off of goyfs, but at the same time I'm able to land a zur and get things rolling after seeing he only had slaughter pact as removal. Once Zur starts to stabilize the board for me with some D spheres and a steel, I draw a geist and load him up with the retard strength of lifelink unblockable and squeek the win by.

Out: 2 Snapcasters, 1 V clique, 3 remand
In: Threads of Disloyalty, 3 Rest in Peace, 2 spellskite

Game 2: He has a great, aggressive hand, and gets a bob out on turn 2 after I just inquisitioned a scavenging ooze (he didn't have bob at the time, also again, hurray for taking 5 to the face from your own deck on turn 1!). He proceeds to play 2 goyfs, and I kill his bob with a path. I draw a Rest in Peace in time, and instead of killing it on his turn with an abrupt decay while I'm tapped out he lets his goyfs be paper weights and casts a Phyrexian Obliterator. This is absolutely great news for me, as I play a spellskite to eat the abrupt decay for it and path his obliterator. After a few turns of staring at me with his now 4 tarmogoyfs, a $600 field of 0/1s, I'm able to land a geist and a zur. At this point I just want to close out the game as safely as possible, as I'm down to 2 life after the skite ate the abrupt decay. I get a steel, then next turn another RiP as abrupt decay insurance. Then as maelstrom pulse insurance I get a D sphere to hit FOUR TARMOGOYFS. That's gotta be some achievement unlocked. Geist gets a steel of the godhead and winning ensues.

8-0 in games, 4-0 in matches

Match 5: Birthing pod.
Game 1: I keep 2 lands, spirit of the labyrinth, snapcaster mage, remand, steel of the godhead, meddling mage after he mulligans. He goes down to 5 cards and starts out with a Temple Garden. His second turn involves missing a land drop, so I play Spirit to get a clock. He rips a land and plays Voice of Resurgence, which is pretty damn good against me right now. He blocks spirit, and I drop a mage naming "birthing pod" since I assume he was mulliganing aggressively for some sort of combo enabler. He rips another land and drops kitchen finks, attacks me with his Voice token. I try to go toe to toe with him, equipping Mage with a Steel, but next turn he plays a Qasali Pridemage, of course, and hits me for 6 before killing my lifelink abilities. I peter out as I don't draw removal or geist to race, and he gets Orzhov Pontiff and Archangel of Thune natural draws so I lose the race.

Out: 4 remand, spirit of the labyrinth, inquisitions, 1 v clique
In: 3 Aven mindcensor, blind obedience, 3 rest in peace

Game 2: I play a turn 2 thoughseize so I don't 5 myself which shows me a relatively lackluster hand of tiny creatures + 1 pod, which I take. He plays a turn 2 finks into a turn 3 topdecked pod which ends up burying me in dumb creatures.

Games 8-2, Matches 4-1

Match 6: Birthing Pod
Game 1: I thoughtseize his maindeck Thrun and Reveillark, taking a couple damage a turn from his angry double heirarchs. I get out a Geist which starts going to town on him. He gets to chord of calling for Archangel of thune with all his mana dorks, but I have the path to blow him out.

Out: 4 remand, spirit of labyrinth, inquisitions, v clique
In: 3 Aven Mindcensor, blind obedience, 3 rest in peace

Game 2: I thoughtseize a mulliganed hand of 5 land, melira, thrun to hit thrun. I don't have much in terms of board presence, so he gets a melira to start bashing me for a while, and then some more with exalted. I save my paths for better targets and play out Blind Obedience and Rest in Peace as a way to start locking him out of his combo. Aven Mindcensor is an absolute train wreck for him, as his only answer to my enchantments is Qasali Pridemage, which he has to tutor for. He repeatedly uses Birthing Pod on mana dorks to try to find one, but they aren't in his top 4 cards ever. Extort buys me time against his exalted melira until I can land my Zur, which is able to start the engine and drive me home. I stabilize around 6, but it's much less dramatic than it seems as I had 2 paths waiting for anything better than a 2/2.

10-2 games, 5-1 matches

Match 7: Mill
Game 1: I'm extremely happy to get archive trapped on turn 1 as I have some number of hand hate and a snapcaster mage. I land a geist on turn 3 and kill him with over half my deck still left not in my graveyard.

Out: 2 remand
In: 2 Negate

Game 2: This is the first game I know I misplayed in, as I don't take his 2x Phyrexian Crusader and instead take his mill cards. Really stupid in hindsight, but as I had geist + zur in my hand I kind of just assumed I could race them. I was wrong, as his untapped crusader shuts Geist down, and Zur can't just D sphere them away. He plays that one card that gains 3 life for each creature in my graveyard and wins the race. I saw a bunch of Extirpates in his deck so I decide to put in some RiPs for next game.

Out: 1 steel, 1 d sphere
In: 2 RiPs

Game 3: I don't see a RiP and he has like 3 surgical extractions. Luckily I get a geist out and Zur still is able to find 1 steel left in my deck. With geist unblockable the game is won.

12-3 in games, 6-1 in matches

Any record that is X-2 or better gets in to day 2. I have to win 1 of the next 2 matches.

Match 8: 8 racks (mono black discard).
Game 1: These games are brutal, not really much to take away from them that is interesting. He makes me discard everything and has as many Liliana of the Veil as I have Geists.

Out: 3 paths
In: 2 negate, 1 blind obedience

Game 2: He gets bob out turn 2, Liliana turn 3, and a bunch of racks + ravens crime going. I lose without much fun being had by me.

12-5 in games, 6-2 in matches.

Final Match: Affinity
Game 1: I'm almost able to stabilize against a turn 2 on the play Cranial Plating. I get out Meddling Mage on Etched champion and then D-Sphere his cranial plating, but he has Galvanic Blast to shoot my Mage and then play Etched Champion anyway. I don't find a Steel for my geist in time to race him.

Out: 4 remands, 1 thoughtseize
In: 3 Stony Silence, 2 Spellskites (block etched champion, steel ravager modulars, eat galvanic blasts)

Game 2: I get a turn 2 Stony Silence out while he only has a vault scourge + inkmoth nexuses. I get mage out on wear/tear and geist soon after to mop up the mess.

Game 3: He gets a nuts hand on the play. Mox Opal + darksteel citadel + Signal Pest + Springleaf Drum, taps pest + drum for thoughtcast. I play hallowed fountain tapped, say go. He plays blood moon, vault scourge, and follows it up with a cranial plating. Good game variance, you win this round.

13-5 in games, 6-3 in matches.

Overall the only thing I would change is -1 island +1 creeping tar pit. That card has been great all day, from racing with help of geist to keeping a creature on the table to not sac my Zurs. I'll post a picture of my deck pimping soon.

As far as thoughts on the format, I'm starting to like it less. It tricked me as being a format that all my favorite oldschool cards can be played in without the awfulness of Emrakul, TNN, and the other 1 card game enders, but as it currently is whoever gets to play first has an extraordinary advantage. There isn't a whole lot you can do to stop that fact, as most of the high powered cards in the format are 2 drops and the best ways to stop those cards are also 2 drops. I'm also disappointed in how lopsided matchups are. You always have bad matchups with a deck, but the rock paper scissoryness is more prominent than in any other format. Also, without any decent card filtering it makes luck of the starting hand a HUGE factor.

Davran
05-12-2014, 09:19 AM
As far as thoughts on the format, I'm starting to like it less. It tricked me as being a format that all my favorite oldschool cards can be played in without the awfulness of Emrakul, TNN, and the other 1 card game enders, but as it currently is whoever gets to play first has an extraordinary advantage. There isn't a whole lot you can do to stop that fact, as most of the high powered cards in the format are 2 drops and the best ways to stop those cards are also 2 drops. I'm also disappointed in how lopsided matchups are. You always have bad matchups with a deck, but the rock paper scissoryness is more prominent than in any other format. Also, without any decent card filtering it makes luck of the starting hand a HUGE factor.

First of all, this seems like a sweet deck. I wish I had more of the cards to take it for a spin - it seems like it would clean up in my local meta.

As for the statement I quoted above: I couldn't agree more. I often find that most of my matches come down to whomever had the better opening 7 and/or won the die roll. I can honestly say that I don't really think I have a "good" match up with my deck (UWR control) like I do when I play legacy (i.e. at least 70% in my favor), which seems pretty weird for constructed and what is ostensibly a "Tier 1" deck. I think the problem is the lack of really solid non-creature spells. In legacy, you've got access to stuff like Force of Will, Daze and Brainstorm that answer the more powerful creatures (or at least help get you to an answer) whereas in modern you either have it in hand or you don't, and you either left mana untapped or you didn't. God forbid your opponent stick some kind of hexproof nonsense so you can sit there and watch the removal rot in your hand. Overall the mana bases make things worse too - when you're taking 3-5 damage to get your lands online that resolved Goyf or Geist is an immediate clock, and you've got no real way to dig into an answer.

The other big problem I have with the format right now is sideboarding. The sideboard choices are often complete and total hosers. Like for example, it's nigh impossible for a lot of decks to win through a Blood Moon or Stony Silence. Contrast this with legacy, where something like Reanimator can easily win through resolved graveyard hate. As if the matches weren't enough of a coin toss, you now have to hope that your opponent didn't draw his thermonuclear hate card, or that you drew your answer to it.

Phoenix Ignition
05-12-2014, 11:50 AM
Yeah, it's good and bad about the no free countermagic. Without it to hold combos in check they need to ban cantrips like Preordain that would help with card variance. Since you can't count on that, you have crap like twin, birthing pod, and affinity (with 3 good cards and a bunch of garbage in their deck) running amok.

Sideboards are kind of like you said, though I think for the fairer decks it isn't true. Sure, Stony Silence crushes affinity, Rest in Peace crushes Living End, Aven Mindcensor crushes Birthing Pod, etc., but as far as UWR control the best I can really think of is something like Thrun, which is great and all but not completely lopsided. I'm fine with the 1-track plan decks getting crushed by a single card, mainly because I've always thought that to be fair. Dredge in Legacy pretty much scoops to Rest in Peace, and that's how things should be. For Zur I'm not worried about too much, I guess just Blood Moon. Maybe that's more what you meant, but I suppose UWR or Zur could always sideboard in a "Destroy target enchantment" for one white and not worry about it so much, though that is kind of an extreme countermeasure.

I've been thinking more about it and I think I should really just stop being dumb and put in a bunch of Spell Snares. I complain about 2 drops ruling the format and don't even sideboard in the card that stops them when the opponent is on the play. Maybe that's something all blue decks need to do to truly stay alive (and not just in the getting lucky rolls sense, which anyone can do) when they're on the draw and don't have the great luck. Having a bunch of Path to Exiles and hand hate have been what I've been leaning on lately, and clearly that's still not enough cards to shut down the explosive plays. Hand hate only stops 1 good card, and leaves me tapped out for them playing their turn 2 bomb. I'll probably drop a few cards to fit them in.

Davran
05-12-2014, 01:09 PM
I've been thinking more about it and I think I should really just stop being dumb and put in a bunch of Spell Snares. I complain about 2 drops ruling the format and don't even sideboard in the card that stops them when the opponent is on the play. Maybe that's something all blue decks need to do to truly stay alive (and not just in the getting lucky rolls sense, which anyone can do) when they're on the draw and don't have the great luck. Having a bunch of Path to Exiles and hand hate have been what I've been leaning on lately, and clearly that's still not enough cards to shut down the explosive plays. Hand hate only stops 1 good card, and leaves me tapped out for them playing their turn 2 bomb. I'll probably drop a few cards to fit them in.

Spell Snare is the real deal in the format for sure. I'm not 100% sure how this particular deck plays, but I do know that I'm up to the full 4 in my UWR list from the 2 that I started with. Sometimes it's kind of awkward when you're on the draw and you end up shocking yourself and telegraphing that you have it, but it's still a hard counter for a lot of strong cards in the format.

Maybe something like 2x Inqusition, 2x Thoughtseize and 2x Spell Snare? Sort of the shotgun approach to whatever card(s) you care about without running the risk of drawing a bunch of late game bricks?

Phoenix Ignition
05-12-2014, 04:05 PM
I'll probably try out at least +2 Spell Snare -1 Vendilion Clique -1 Inquisition, maybe trying to find another thing to take out for the 3rd Snare. I have this thing against 2x Vendilion Cliques in any Modern deck that isn't aggro, as drawing 2 is usually just bad, and he isn't nearly as good as in Legacy. Thoughtseize is also a huge benefit in relation to inquisition, as the main cards I want to hit are all in the 4+ range. Birthing Pod, Cryptic/planeswalkers, Thrun, Phyrexian Obliterator, and many more. Taking 2 damage blind against a burn deck is terrible, but against the majority of matchups I would love to have 4x thoughtseize.

Fitting 4 in is a good idea though, I could see dropping both inquisitions, a clique, and maybe a meddling mage for the 4th. I'll have to test it more though, that might make me too reactive, and without hard counters that could be bad.

Timber
08-15-2014, 11:43 AM
Any updates for this deck?

Phoenix Ignition
08-15-2014, 01:26 PM
The current list I'd go with that is sitting in a deck box is:
3 Zur the Enchanter
3 Meddling Mage
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Geist of Saint traft

4 Serum Visions
4 Remand
4 Thoughtseize
3 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile

1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Detention Sphere
2 Steel of the Godhead

2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scalding Tarn

SB:
2 Stony Silence
2 Damping Matrix
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Rest in Peace
2 Spellskite
2 Negate
1 Blind Obedience

I think I played at 2 weekly tournaments since the last update, going 3-1 and 2-2 (scooped to friend though). As Junk becomes more popular I actually like the standing of this deck more since they rely heavily on Lingering Souls and Abrupt Decay + Slaughter Pact don't hit Zur/Geists.

Dead_Style
09-23-2014, 03:02 PM
Top4 in PTQ (211 players)

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14420&iddeck=106425


Creatures [21]
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Spellskite
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Zur the Enchanter

Instants [6]
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay

Sorceries [5]
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

Enchantments [6]
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Unflinching Courage
3 Detention Sphere



Lands [22]
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
3 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs

SD:
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Swan Song
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Choke
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Stony Silence
3 Spreading Seas
1 Thoughtseize
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Illness in the Ranks

Phoenix Ignition
09-24-2014, 12:34 PM
Very cool deck. I'm playing 4c right now in Gifts Control and 4c manabases are definitely good right now in Modern. Running Abrupt Decay pretty much shuts down any mid-late game blood moon, and other than that there aren't that many drawbacks or decks that can effectively fight it.

Doran + Spellskite is always fun too.