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Royal Ass.
09-12-2011, 06:32 PM
I started playing magic back in 94 and Chaos Orb was considered one of the best and most feared cards. I remember getting all my lands blown up by Chaos Orb multiple times. The rule at the time was that once someone played Chaos Orb you could not move your cards and when Chaos Orb landed on a card it destroyed all the cards underneath it. This was a problem for a dorky 6th grader like myself because I stacked my lands on top of each other.

Now that I have given you some history about my experience with Chaos Orb I want to discuss a local rule errata for playing this card amongst your commander group.

The first question to ask is; Why do you want to play with Chaos Orb?
For me much of commander is the nostalgia element that it provides me. My deck has many of the old school cards that I wanted to own back when I was a kid by my weekly $5 allowance wouldn't allow. Chaos Orb is one of those cards.

There are two reasons that Chaos Orb is banned in constructive Vintage Play. The first reason is because it messed with the playing field because people don't want to have their cards too close to each other so as not to get X for oned. The second reason is because it requires manual dexterity.

The manual dexteritiy reason should not really apply to commander because it is a casual format and hell, shuffling a 100 card deck is a lot more physically difficult than dropping a card onto the table.

The real issue when addressing an errata to make Chaos Orb legal is the first issue dealing with playing space and spreading out cards. Thus to address that issue I propose the following errata:

1, Tap: If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, chose another card on the battlefield and flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, destroy the chosen card if Chaos Orb touches it upon landing. All equipments and auras on the chosen card are also destroyed. Then destroy Chaos Orb.

This errata makes it so that you actually chose (though not target) the card you want to destroy and does away with the problem of people having to spread cards out. In a way it makes Chaos Orb worse because you usually only get a 1 for 1, making Chaos Orb essentially a colorless vindicate with the downside of missing.

I added the part about destroying equipments and enchantments attached to the chosen card because it fits in with the flavor of the card and also pays homage to the history of how the card function in that it destroyed any card under the card Chaos Orb was touching.

I plan on testing this errated version of Chaos Orb next time I play commander. I'll let people know about it before the game since it is technically a banned card in EDH. However, I think with this errata it is a very fair card for EDH and also makes for a fun game event. One of the nice things about Chaos Orb is that since it doesn't target, it can take out a creature with Lightning Greeves as well as taking out the equipment.

Please let me know your thoughts on this errata and the use of Chaos Orb in EDH play.

Koby
09-12-2011, 06:59 PM
In Cube draft, we've played it as a Vindicate:

:1:,T,Sacrifice: Destroy target permanent.

Royal Ass.
09-13-2011, 01:51 AM
That's another option but takes all the fun out of it. The flip part is what makes it fun. Also, I don't think it should target. That substantially weakens the card. I think that your cube errata if fine so far as it makes the card functional but it voids of any of its original flavor and charm. My errata is trying to find common ground between the original functionality and purely pragmatic functionality like you have chosen.

Would your cube consider playing the card my way? Try it out and let me know how it goes.

menace13
09-13-2011, 01:58 AM
Is it required to put enchantments and equipment directly under their targets?

Also what happens in your version if it lands on Progenitus?

3 mana colorless Vindicate seems good too.

soltakar
09-13-2011, 02:03 AM
In Cube draft, we've played it as a Vindicate:

:1:,T,Sacrifice: Destroy target permanent.

This is what we used to do back in the day because there usually wasn't much room to spread cards out, as games were almost always multiplayer. We called it "small table rules", and I still used it and argivian archaeologist in multiples to wreck people.

Royal Ass.
09-13-2011, 09:56 AM
Is it required to put enchantments and equipment directly under their targets?

Also what happens in your version if it lands on Progenitus?

3 mana colorless Vindicate seems good too.

I actually don't know if you are required to put enchantments or equipments directly under the card. I thought about that too. Probably not. Regardless, I think having them be destroyed along with the card fits the flavor of the card well and since 99% of people put the enchantment under the card it fits the original function of Chaos Orb well.

It would not kill Prgenitus because it has protection. It would also not kill an indestructible card. It still "destroys" the card so I guess you someone could also regenerate too.

3 mana colorless vindicate is very good, but hardly too broken for EDH in my Opinion. There is a lot more broken stuff that goes on in the format than just a good removal card. Also don't forget that you can always miss on the flip.

Royal Ass.
09-13-2011, 09:57 AM
This is what we used to do back in the day because there usually wasn't much room to spread cards out, as games were almost always multiplayer. We called it "small table rules", and I still used it and argivian archaeologist in multiples to wreck people.

It also combos well with Guardian Beast. :)

Malchar
09-13-2011, 02:46 PM
You should try this:

1, T: Choose a card. Flip Chaos Orb. If you get heads, destroy the chosen card. Either way, destroy Chaos Orb.

This keeps some of the randomness without requiring dexterity or changing the game field. Maybe you could allow people to choose more than one "target" but then they'll have to get multiple heads in a row in order to destroy all the cards. Also note that Chaos Orb isn't normally sacrificed to activate it. If you make it indestructible somehow, then you can reuse it each turn.

Edit: I'm not exactly the best person to come up with ideas anyway considering I've never even seen a Chaos Orb before.

Royal Ass.
09-13-2011, 06:02 PM
I should re-iterate that one of my goals when coming up with an errata was to try to best preserve the original functionality and flavor of the card while mitigating the problems that the card created for the game state. I wanted to change the card to solve the play space problem but still have it "feel" like you are playing the original Chaos Orb. I think the flipping the card and having it destroy what it lands on it integral to this and any errata that removes that element of the card ultimately defeats the purpose.

I see the manual dexterity issue as a non-issue for EDH and thus the only problem I am trying to solve is the issue of people spreading their cards out to avoid getting "X for oned" on the flip.

I guess I should ask - do people think that the manual dexterity element of the card is actually an issue for EDH?

Also I would be interested in hearing from someone who played back when Chaos Orb was legal, and what they think about the proposed local rule errata.

Zlatzman
09-15-2011, 12:40 AM
What about something like:

1,T: : If Chaos Orb is on the battlefield, flip Chaos Orb onto the battlefield from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, destroy up to one permanent it touches. Then destroy Chaos Orb.

This does not eliminate the need to reorganize permanents, but the consequence of not reorganizing them is much less severe.

Royal Ass.
09-15-2011, 11:39 AM
Played some EDH yesterday with Chaos Orb. Only got to uses it once. Basically used it the way you posted above Zlatzman with the agreement ahead of time that it would also destroy all cards attached to the destroyed card (equipment, enchantments). So long as people don't cover their best cards up in play with other other cards to protect them from the Orb, that rule text seems fine.