[Deck] Spellweaver Helix

[Mr. Safety]

So I saw this little gem in Jake Van Lunen's most recent BOAB article. I've been *secretly* working on a Spellweaver Helix deck that abuses both Flame Jab and Raven's Crime to click off Spellweaver Helix with Time Stretch. This seems like a PERFECT opportunity to put retrace/Helix to good use.

Corkscrew Combo (updated 10/28/11)
The combo:
4x Spellweaver Helix
3x Time Stretch
4x Raven's Crime
4x Flame Jab
4x Exhaustion
3x Life from the Loam

Dredge Support:
4x Glimpse the Unthinkable
4x Ideas Unbound
4x Stinkweed Imp
2x Noxious Revival

Protection:
4x Remand

Lands:
4x Crumbling Necropolis
4x City of Brass
3x Reflecting Pool
1x Buried Ruin
1x Vivid Crag
1x Vivid Creek
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Breeding Pool
1x Steam Vents
2x Mountain
2x Island


Basic plan is to use Raven's Crime early to attack their hand and Flame Jab early to kill off mana dorks and Bobs to stifle acceleration. When I'm not doing that I'm playing Ideas Unbound, Glimpse the Unthinkable, and dredgine Imp/Loam to set up Helix on turn 3. Once I get Time Stretch or Cruel Ultimatum moving, it will be VERY hard to lose the game. Noxious Revivals to get back the dredged Burning Vengeance. If I exhaust my deck before winning with Time Stretch, I can loop the 2 Noxious Revivals to keep a card in my library.

The big drawback (and it's a BIG one) is that the deck gets raped by any sort of graveyard hate. The decklist is tight, so room to fit in anti-hate in the sideboard is going to be tricky as hell. I'm guessing game 1 will go smoothly enough, but game 2 is a hate-war where I either get an answer to the hate (Echoing Truth, Spell Pierce, etc.) or they rape my graveyard and it's 'gg'.

Am I dreaming here, or could this become a pretty decent combo deck?

[SpikeyMikey]

I think it should be in the deck subforum, not the forum discussion subforum.

I also think this is strictly worse than what's already out there. It's less consistent than Twin and has less room for disruption. The fact that it's not vulnerable to creature hate or the hate that already hits Twin gives it some merit, but Hive Mind can make the same claim with more redundancy (it can transmute for it's key combo piece, you're hoping to draw yours naturally since you have 0 Academy Ruins in your listing) and better disruption (7-9 counters vs. 4 Raven's Crime).

[Mr. Safety]

So essentially what you're saying is this:

1) It needs away to recur Spellweaver Helix when it gets dredged. Fair enough. I thought 2 copies of Noxious Revival was enough, but Academy Ruins or even Buried Ruin are just fine. Testing shall commence.

2) It has no protection besides a generic, non-targeted discard spell with Raven's Crime. Also very fair point. I originally had Remand x4 in the list, but I wanted to get Think Twice in there. It may be a simple matter of straight swap, especially considering Remand cantrips anyways.

Burning Vengeance may be 'win more' TBH. I was thinking of making it essentially Helix #5-8 to give the deck 2 ways to win (recur Flame Jab/Raven's Crime with spare lands/loam and deal some damage/control the board while I do it.) The problem is squeezing in both a good amount of dredgers/draw AND playing protection. I thought it was pretty clever to be using retrace with Burning Vengeance, very similar to River Kelpie in it's way to take further advantage of retrace.

OP shall be edited. Thank you for the feedback!

[rufus]

I wonder if you really need to have those big bombs to make Spellweaver Helix pay off. It seems like slapping something like Exhaustion under it could be pretty good and can buy you time while establishing the soft lock. If Savor the Moment were a bit more compelling Panoptic Mirror and Spellweaver Helix would be a cute double-barrel deck.

Eye of Nowhere might also work under the helix if you can establish quickly and seems like a decent utility card.

You need two copies of a card to make Spellweaver Helix work well, which strongly suggests there should be some kind of tutoring. Beseech the Queen seems to be a possibility, and Infernal Tutor is almost obvious.

It's probably not worthwhile and off-color, but Woodland Guidance seems like it could be beastly with the helix.

Darkmoor Salvage also seems like it could fit a deck like this well.

[Mr. Safety]

Salvage has been tested...and it just doesn't dredge enough. Dredge 2 is pretty lousy, and if the land enters tapped it had better be a Vivid land to feed Reflecting Pool or Crumbling Necropolis to give the right colors. Stinkweed Imp is in there for the dredge 5 (which gets INSANE with Ideas Unbound) and Loam is a downright neccessity to feed you lands to play your retracers. Glimpse is also a neccessity, as it dredges 10 for 2 mana.

I've tested Hedron Crab + fetchlands, but I wanted a combo deck that doesn't need creatures to win. The lifeloss from fetchlands needs to be minimized to combat the fast fundamental turn of RDW and Cat Sligh as well.

I think the real advantage of the deck is the ease of which that the win can be established. You can imprint Time Stretch, Cruel Ultimatum...or just Glimpse the Unthinkable and mill them hard with a Jab/Crime retrace. If you get a dredger into the yard with Glimpse, you are pretty well set up for a turn 3-4 win consitently. Or you can combo off with a 2nd copy in your hand of Crime/Jab and only one in the yard.

I love the Exhaustion idea! It seems really good to be able to form a soft lock like that against aggro (or even control without their lands...) I was thinking Cruel Ultimatum was also a pretty solid deal, as it is a 4-turn clock attached to mass discard with an Edict effect to boot. The problem with Exhaustion is that it doesn't get better in multiples. Time Stretch and Cruel Ultimatum are just fine if you can retrace twice. I like the idea enough to completely replace Cruel Ultimatum with it (and get it up to 3 copies.)

[Mr. Safety]

I think it should be in the deck subforum, not the forum discussion subforum.


Oops...posted in the wrong forum. Thank you to mods for correcting this!!!

[Mr. Safety]

Does Visions of Beyond belong here???

[rufus]

Does Visions of Beyond belong here???

I don't think so.

Does it move your fundamental turn forward?
Does it disrupt your opponent?
Does it help you win against hate?

Pretty sure the answer to all of those is no.

[Mr. Safety]

Spot on.

Just for the record, I haven't even playtested this list. I'm not sure if about it's actual play value, as it seems rather 'cute', and I think we can all agree that 'cute' belongs in casual.

[Tocki]

Small Necro:

Are the Vengeances really necessary?

I think it would be better to play a higher amount of Loams and Buried/Academy Ruins.
Once you have established a soft- or hardlock, you can easily keep on dredging with loams/something else to get another Helix, retrace-card and a Glimpse to win from there.

Another benefit from that would be the option to use Loam and Ravens Crime more often even before you have the lock on the board, which might be especially useful against combodecks.

This also improves the chance of hitting a dredge-card while filling up the graveyard.

On another note, it strikes me as important to find cards that both function as a combopiece and protect you while you dont have the combo working. Exhaustation appears to be such a card and i wonder wether there are more possible and good options. To find such card might be tricky though, as they have to be sorceries.

[Tocki]

Edit: Doppelpost fail at first post at all >.< My excuses.

Small Necro:

Are the Vengeances really necessary?

I think i would be better to play a higher amount of Loams and Buried/Academy Ruins.
Once you have established a soft- or hardlock, you can easily keep on dredging with loams/something else to get another Helix, retrace-card and a Glimpse to win from there.

Another benefit from that would be the option to use Loam and Ravens Crime more often even before you have the lock on the board, which might be especially useful against combodecks.

This also improves the chance of hitting a dredge-card while filling up the graveyard.

On another note, it strikes me as important to find cards that both function as a combopiece and protect you while you dont have the combo working. Exhaustation appears to be such a card and i wonder wether there are more possible and good options. To find such card might be tricky though, as they have to be sorceries.

[Mr. Safety]

OP updated, with these edits:

+1 Exhaustion
+2 Life from the Loam

-3 Burning Vengeance

I would humbly suggest to the mods to change the name of the thread to 'Spellweaver Helix Combo' or something similar, as Burning Vengeance isn't even part of the deck anymore...