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hi-val
02-23-2012, 04:36 AM
UW Tron is a heck of a deck and easily could have won the GP. GerryT got 9th with it and the deck is formidable, for sure. I'm having some issues with various decks when it comes to hating out Tron, and here's why:

-Timely Reinforcements is a real boon against most aggressive decks. It can easily take away your head of steam.

-Iona + Rites or Elesh shuts down a lot of other stuff.

-Over time, the Tron lands and Eye of Ugin means that they'll just Eldrazi you away.


I don't know if there's any one strategy that you can bring to bear against that deck, but I'm looking for some good sideboard cards. My kingdom for a Dwarven Blastminer or a Rain of Salt! Here's what I've got so far:

Detritivore - slow, but an uncounterable land kill
Sowing Salt -breaks up the Tron really well
Plow Under - good, but temporary and expensive

There's also stuff like Molten Rain, but that feels like a wasted sideboard slot. If you were playing Teachings, Jund, Affinity, etc., what would you board in against this deck? Do you have any good tech against Tron?

I'll note that my favorite tech at this point is Telemin Performance, since it can mill them and steal their dude. I suppose Bribery is good, too, but I don't have $18 for Briberys right now...

mojoiskewl
02-23-2012, 04:51 AM
I suppose you can try to fit a loam package in jund.

SpikeyMikey
02-23-2012, 08:23 AM
My board for B/W Tokens is Aven Mindcensor. Shuts down Map, Eye and Gifts which turns them into an awkward land deck. Andrew Olshwagger used Necrotic Sliver with Extirpate, I suppose any sort of LD+Extirpate would work. It is a strong deck, but it's very counter-light. Yes, LSV and GerryT finished in the top 10 with it (and a local named Austin finished T32 with it) but remember, Ochoa failed to make day 2 with it. It can be beaten. I agree though, it *is* formidible. I saw a guy who was running Gideon's Lawkeeper as a hedge against Emrakul out of Breach and Tron decks. That's not a bad idea either, although I'd rather just nerf the search than deal with Emrakul after it's already hit.

Mr. Safety
02-23-2012, 09:29 AM
I see it as a reminder of the 12-Post decks that started the format off...and at that point, Ghost Quarter maindeck was a neccessity. I think some number need to be in the maindeck, and if you're playing green Life from the Loam needs to be a sideboard consideration. Even black has Grim Discovery to go with GQ, which is better than a more limiting spell like Molten Rain/Stone Rain/Rain of Tears. Sowing Salt is probably the strongest tech, if a little high-costed mana-wise, if you want to really hate out lands.

Urza-tron will be a big contender for the foreseeable future, so I think it would be beneficial to list out, by color, the ways that it can be hated out (this is by no means comprehensive):

Green =
Beast Within
Reap and Sow
Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
Creeping Mold
Life from the Loam

Red =
Stone Rain
Molten Rain
Sowing Salt

Black =
Rain of Tears
Evil Presence
Befoul
Helldozer
Shriekmaw
Executioner's Capsule
Seal of Doom
Cruel Edict
Gatekeeper of Malakir
Liliana of the Veil


White =
Aven Mindcensor
Oblivion Ring
Journey to Nowhere
Leonin Arbiter
Cage of Hands

Blue =
Mindlock Orb
Mystic Restraint
Ice Cage
Claustrophobia
Frozen Solid
Leaden Fists
Paralyzing Grasp

Hybrid =
Shadow of Doubt
Curse of Chains

Lands =
Ghost Quarter
Tectonic Edge
Mystifying Maze


This includes ways of dealing with Emrakul along with dealing with lands.

Jeff Kruchkow
02-23-2012, 09:36 AM
Blood Moon + Artifact Destruction wrecks U/W Tron.

fallenphoenix
02-23-2012, 09:43 AM
What the buck ist wrong with you guys, not listing Bloodmoon. :laugh:
It's easily the card they want to see the least, despite LSV casting Emrakul under Bloodmoon (likeaboss) that card is pretty much the real deal.

Of course, it doesn't go very well into most 3c-decks, but why are you running a 3c-manabase anyway, if you can't beat Tron with it?

And as SpikeyMikey mentioned, Mindcensor is really annoying, too, especially when paired with Ghostquarter.

Mr. Safety
02-23-2012, 01:00 PM
Herp derp, missed Blood Moon. Sorry...

Phoenix Ignition
02-23-2012, 07:19 PM
Telemin Performance is probably a better sideboard card than Bribery anyway, since getting it off is going to net you an extremely hard to deal with creature either way, and it is great against UR storm.

I'm playing an aggressive Jund variant right now and am not having problems with the deck. Liliana of the Veil deals with their reanimated creatures and Blightning will shut them off being able to actually play their high cost spells. It usually just kills them before they can get to 10 mana anyway (it still is a relatively slow deck).

I think graveyard hate is necessary, and you should be running it for other decks anyway since UR Storm, Melira, Aggro Loam, and random other crap get blown out by it. It will shut down the 4th and 5th turns of Tron if you take out their GY when they attempt to reanimate. I like Surgical Extraction right now, instant speed things that don't sit on the table are the best.

As for a list of actual cards you can use against them that aren't just garbage:

Extirpate
Surgical Extraction
Jund Charm (So good right now!)
Aven Mindcensor
Blood Moon
Liliana of the Veil
Telemin Performance
Bribery
Damnation
Wrath of God


Although it is a relatively small number of cards, they include all colors except mono green. You should probably run 1-2 Ghost Quarter or Tec edges main deck like we had to back in 12 post days. Tron has no way of getting back their lands so you're pretty well off if you kill their 1-of Eye of Ugin.

Koby
02-23-2012, 07:51 PM
Blood Moon is a speed bump, but not necessarily a trump by any means. Signets mean they have access to colored mana, and that's as easy as going Gifts: Disenchant, Snapcaster Mage, Repeal, O-ring.

LD is perhaps a better approach, but LD in general is pretty weak.

socialite
02-23-2012, 09:03 PM
Ancient Grudge for the signets and just play better cards.

Honestly as a U/W Tron player the deck is extremely clunky and pretty much goes derp derp derp for the first 9 turns of the game. If people stopped running such janky shit I'm almost positive Tron wouldn't be as good as it is. You're right about Timely Reinforcements being a bitch to play against as aggro - such has always been the fault of the archetype.

BGW Pod has some game versus it.

JACO
02-23-2012, 11:56 PM
Ancient Grudge for the signets and just play better cards.

Honestly as a U/W Tron player the deck is extremely clunky and pretty much goes derp derp derp for the first 9 turns of the game. If people stopped running such janky shit I'm almost positive Tron wouldn't be as good as it is. You're right about Timely Reinforcements being a bitch to play against as aggro - such has always been the fault of the archetype.

BGW Pod has some game versus it.This post nails it. You know what cards are really good against Tron? Anything that fucks with Tron. Blood Moon, Ancient Grudge, Ghost Quarter, Fulminator Mage, Boom // Bust, etc. Jund can run any and all of those cards easily, except Blood Moon. Before they banned 12-Post I had a Jund list tuned for that metagame that just destroyed the big mana decks, so it can definitely be done, especially since Tron is slower and weaker.

socialite
02-24-2012, 01:39 AM
This post nails it. You know what cards are really good against Tron? Anything that fucks with Tron. Blood Moon, Ancient Grudge, Ghost Quarter, Fulminator Mage, Boom // Bust, etc. Jund can run any and all of those cards easily, except Blood Moon. Before they banned 12-Post I had a Jund list tuned for that metagame that just destroyed the big mana decks, so it can definitely be done, especially since Tron is slower and weaker.

I'd like to mention Dead//Gone as well as it's something I've tried in Type 1 and is actually pretty damn good in Modern as well. While it doesn't hit Emrakul it hits everything else and is very flexible for the color and if you are running UR Tron it's an excellent sideboard card.

nedleeds
02-26-2012, 01:30 PM
W/r Prison has strong game against it, but can struggle vs. combo pre-Leyline of Sanctity.


4 Wrath of God
3 Firespout
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Scepter of Dominance
3 Boros Signet
2 Boom // Bust
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Sacred Foundry
5 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
2 Mountain
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Gideon Jura
3 Mind Stone
2 Batterskull
3 Lightning Helix
1 Buried Ruin
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Red Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Aura of Silence
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Torpor Orb

hi-val
03-30-2012, 08:32 PM
With RG Tron being the hottest thing right now, it's worth looking at this thread again. I'll also toss Spreading Seas onto the list. With a little bit of tempo, Seas can really throw Tron decks off. It's now Sowing Salt, but it's a lot faster.

damionblackgear
03-31-2012, 12:08 AM
Gift Bug w/ Lotus Cobra. Let's you assemble Raven's crime + Ghost Quarter on turn 3 (active on 4) via protected gifts. They need 2 graveyard targeted effects or 1 big one (which you can always force them to discard). Either way, you get something

Shawn
04-01-2012, 04:40 PM
I've considered Spreading Seas, but here are some things to think about:

- It doesn't set them back, land-wise. With all the Talismans and other mana they run they can cast Karn for (7) instead of (3), so it's probably best in an aggressive deck.
- Ghost Quarter is probably better, at least in slower decks since it essentially costs 1 as opposed to 1U, it for sure kills a land (they can Karn or Claim Seas) and they only run 0-1 basics in most lists. If you are playing UW tron, I wouldn't run Seas since almost every Gr opponent I've played against brings in Nature's Claim to deal blow up my Signets.

Against Gr I really like Negate, as they are overly reliant on resolving a Karn, and usually you can buy yourself enough time since they don't really have the ability to find a 2nd fast.

If you run Unburial Rites, I really like Terastadon sideboard. It needs to be backed up by something else, though; it's not a one hit KO sit the elephants they have buy them infinite time.

I've been toying around with Meddling Mage board in UW, and it's been ok. Against Gr, I almost exclusively name Karn since you can't beat that card otherwise. It also is ok against combo.

Annex is another card I've seen in Ux Tron sideboards, but it seems worse than Ghost Quarter or Spreading Seas. Even with a t2 Signet or Talisman, it feels a turn too slow if you are on the play or two turns too slow on the draw since they get 7 mana t3 pretty consistently.

Also, if you have Ghost Quarter on board and they only have 2 of the 3 Tron lands in play, blow one up right away on your turn or in their upkeep! I've had a bunch of situations on MTGO where they let me untap and cast something like Ulamog and just crushed them.

Mirrislegend
06-12-2012, 08:42 PM
U/W Tron scoops to a decent clock backed up by Blood Moon

What worries me is R/G Tron. That thing is resilient, consistent, and blows through Blood Moon like it isn't even there.

Given that I'm playing a REALLY aggro deck, I suppose I should go with Molten Rain. But Sowing Salt looks so appealing. Anyone have experience with the two?