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Hireax
07-02-2012, 07:32 AM
Hi all,

First of all, my excuses if there's already a thread out there discussing the deck in the Modern meta-game. However I feel that this is a deck worth testing, considering that it consists of less than three colors and thus needs less Fetch into Shock allowing for less damage to yourself. Two, it has the explosiveness of Red in combination with some serious green beaters which allow for a quick twenty towards the opponent's face.

Without further ado this is a list I'd like to test when given the chance:


[Creatures 22]
[4x] Kird Ape
[4x] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
[3x] Stromkirk Noble
[4x] Stingscourger
[4x] Silhana ledgewalker
[3x] Champion of Lambholt

[Lands 20]
[4x] Stomping Ground
[4x] Rootbound Crag
[4x] Copperline Gorge
[4x] Forest
[4x] mountain

[Spells 18]
[4x] Lightning Bolt
[4x] Vines of Vastwood
[4x] Rift Bolt
[2x] Beast Within
[2x] Groundswell
[2x] Might of Old Krosa


Obviously this deck would need some extensive testing, which I am planning to do after I get a new laptop. However it might be not such a bad idea to get some of the rough edges off already :).

Looking forward to your replies.

Cards I am also considering

Mogg War-Marshal | Gives tokens which would be neat in combination with Champion, but MWM would become a T4 drop at best in that use.
Goblin Guide | not sure I'd like to give my oppo free shocks, therefore Noble is in.
Ohran Viper | Good card-draw, but somewhat more Tempoish than aggro
More burn | doesn't complement the pumps wanted for several creatures.
More pump | doesn't allow you to barge right through your oppo's creatures as burn does.
Scab-Clan Mauler | Not sure he'd make it over the current creatures

Kird Ape could become Tattermunge Maniac

Sharing your thoughts is much appreciated!

Cheers, Hireax

Mirrislegend
07-02-2012, 09:44 AM
I have been pondering R/G beats for a while. With Rancor being reprinted, and the cornucopia of competitive cards available in these colors, it seems like it would be viable. However, much of your list is below competitive power curve. Here's where I would start:

4 Goblin Guide
3-4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
3-4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Rancor
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt

Oh, and maybe the new 3/3 for two in M13: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132759&d=1340769664

Hireax
07-03-2012, 02:48 AM
That's what I was thinking. There are so many good cards available in these colors, it's just a matter of (ab)using them.

I'm not so sold on Goblin Guide. I think it's a real pain when you give your opponent a free land, especially when he's on multiple colors!

Tarmogoyf is a card I hate to consider, although he has immense power. It's always been the price that's holding me back. BBE is definitely a force! However then we need to up the landcount to 22.

Mirrislegend
07-03-2012, 07:25 AM
Goblin Guide is the real deal. He does so much damage, so fast. Giving them lands doesn't matter, because we're not mana denial. Keep in mind the lands go to their hand; they still only get to play one land per turn

I think you need to design the deck with goyf in it. That way it can be planned and created and tested at an accurate power leve. Also, running this thread with goyf in the deck will allow other users to take this thread seriously. Then you can just budgetize your final build.

You bring up a good point about BBE. She does require a decent land count. I'm not sure how to analyze that one. Anyone with Jund design experience wanna chime in?

hi-val
07-03-2012, 09:30 AM
Yeah, you need Goyf at least in your theoretical list.

BBE seems way too expensive to run here.

I fooled around with Owen Turtenwald's Chocolate Rain deck from Extended past and ported it over to Modern. It's a decently good deck. Molten Rain as a card is pretty brutal. I also found that Treetop Villages were incredible. I ran four and it was a total blessing. You'd have them go in for 6-12 damage on their own.

Mirrislegend
07-03-2012, 01:08 PM
Yeah, you need Goyf at least in your theoretical list.

BBE seems way too expensive to run here.

I fooled around with Owen Turtenwald's Chocolate Rain deck from Extended past and ported it over to Modern. It's a decently good deck. Molten Rain as a card is pretty brutal. I also found that Treetop Villages were incredible. I ran four and it was a total blessing. You'd have them go in for 6-12 damage on their own.

Mind linking to the list?

BBE is slow, but is such a beating, that he must be considered.

I forgot about Molten Rain! That card is amazing in red based aggro, especially now that Tron is relevant again

Hireax
07-03-2012, 01:32 PM
Alright, that's true. Goyf is the real deal :P What'd be a replacement in budgetized lists though?

I wouldn't go above twenty lands here as there is so much else to focus on. I'm still not sure about G.Guide...

Mirrislegend
07-05-2012, 12:04 PM
I'm still not sure about G.Guide...

Then clearly you've never used it or played against it. It's the real deal

Hireax
07-06-2012, 12:51 AM
Then clearly you've never used it or played against it. It's the real deal

Actually I have never gotten the chance to pick up on Modern that much and thus am a little unsure what to play. Obviously it would lead to super fast starts, but aren't there decks like SplinterTwin, Teachings, etc in large numbers that want to get to 4 land?

In that case wouldn't you be helping them back in the saddle?

Mirrislegend
07-06-2012, 01:48 PM
Actually I have never gotten the chance to pick up on Modern that much and thus am a little unsure what to play. Obviously it would lead to super fast starts, but aren't there decks like SplinterTwin, Teachings, etc in large numbers that want to get to 4 land?

In that case wouldn't you be helping them back in the saddle?

They'll hit 4 land anyways. By the way, if Goblin Guide is good enough for Legacy, he's good enough for Modern. I got destroyed by Goblin Guide repeatedly in Standard. The land thing is minor compared to the epic beats he provides

Hireax
07-06-2012, 03:44 PM
Well yes probably :). I'll get to test the deck from next week onwards since I now acquired a new laptop. Anyway lets not fiddle over just one card :). We'd better focus on getting the deck to work :).

You seem like the chap to get that going as well! Cheers for now :D

Mirrislegend
07-18-2012, 10:03 AM
I feel like we can call these cards locked in.

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Rancor
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Molten Rain

Obviously, the rest should be critters. Boggart Ram Gang tops the list of options, though I'm not sure he's worth the vulnerability to Lightning Bolt. Hellspark looks great, but is nonbo with Grim. Finks seems like too much green mana. Keldon Marauder is an easy include, I suppose

Davran
07-18-2012, 03:16 PM
I feel like we can call these cards locked in.

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Rancor
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Molten Rain

Obviously, the rest should be critters. Boggart Ram Gang tops the list of options, though I'm not sure he's worth the vulnerability to Lightning Bolt. Hellspark looks great, but is nonbo with Grim. Finks seems like too much green mana. Keldon Marauder is an easy include, I suppose

Bloodbraid Elf? Seems pretty solid at the top of your curve since hitting anything in the above list off of the cascade would be just fine, not to mention the decently sized hasty body it comes with.

Also, Flinthoof Boar sits somewhere between Kird Ape and Boggart Ram-gang.

Amon Amarth
07-19-2012, 05:30 AM
I think Flinthoof Boar is an auto-include. Is Molten Rain enough of a non-bo with Goblin Guide to consider not playing it? Is Tron that much of the metagame where it's OK to play them both? Also, I think Magma Jet is very good and deserves some consideration.

Snapback
07-19-2012, 09:47 AM
Is this a deck that wants Bonfire? It feels like that card is underrepresented in Modern lists currently, given how absurd it is in current Standard.

Phoenix Ignition
07-19-2012, 04:06 PM
Is this a deck that wants Bonfire? It feels like that card is underrepresented in Modern lists currently, given how absurd it is in current Standard.

While I don't disagree, there are some reasons the card isn't running amok in Modern. In Standard there basically aren't combo decks, and a Bonfire for 1 can kill at least 1 creature in every played deck. In Modern there are things like Tron, Splinter Twin, UR storm, and various less played decks that Bonfire just isn't good against. So as good as it is in Standard, the card isn't as good in Modern.

Now I'm not saying it will never be good or that you shouldn't play it, I really think it depends on your expected metagame. The card is nuts against "fair" decks.

Mr. Safety
07-27-2012, 03:30 PM
I forgot about Molten Rain! That card is amazing in red based aggro, especially now that Tron is relevant again

I would suggest that Blood Moon is even better.

What the deck needs is a Berserk, and the only one modern legal is Fatal Frenzy. I'm not sure its worth using or not.

I messed around with R/G stompy for a little while and I can't help but think that Viashino Slaughtermaster would be a decent two-drop, probably better than Flinthoof Boar.

I also think that Boggart Ram-Gang's haste offsets his susceptability to Bolt enough to be used. Bloodbraid into Ram-Gang is pretty intense. R/G has trouble with bigger dudes as well, so don't discount the wither factor.

Mirrislegend
08-01-2012, 01:01 PM
I've heard big things about Pillar of Flame. It kills Finks, yet can still be aimed at the dome.

4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Flinthoof
4 Boggart Ram Gang
3 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Rancor
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Rift Bolt
3 Pillar of Flame

22 land

from Cairo
08-06-2012, 03:11 AM
Pillar of Flame seems good. Incinerate could definitely be good enough as well.

Has Quirion Dryad been considered as a 2cc drop? it was used in Legacy Gruul decks, but admittedly there's been substantial power creep the last couple years. I could see opening Guide demanding removal, dropping Dryad, into Molten Rain, seems pretty dirty. I guess Dryad suffers from the fact that it's mediocre off the top and Modern doesn't offer much for free spells.

Otherwise Keldon Marauders strikes me as the best candidate alongside Tarmogoyf obvi.

zulander
08-06-2012, 06:03 AM
Alright, that's true. Goyf is the real deal :P What'd be a replacement in budgetized lists though?

I wouldn't go above twenty lands here as there is so much else to focus on. I'm still not sure about G.Guide...

Skinshifter.

Also is figure of destiny good here?

zulander
08-06-2012, 10:54 PM
What about going with a more legacy styled zoo list with pridemage, loam lion, path, knight, etc?

mmmetaphor
08-11-2012, 05:21 PM
Kiln Fiend + vines of vastwood seems to be worth a look.

Amon Amarth
08-12-2012, 04:12 AM
I've been struggling to find cards to include for the SB since I'm fairly new to Modern. Ther first thing that pops into my mind is Ancient Grudge against Affinity. Maybe Combust for Pod, Splinter Twin, etc. Crypt for GY hate... what would work in an open/unknown meta?

mmmetaphor
08-12-2012, 09:35 AM
I've been struggling to find cards to include for the SB since I'm fairly new to Modern. Ther first thing that pops into my mind is Ancient Grudge against Affinity. Maybe Combust for Pod, Splinter Twin, etc. Crypt for GY hate... what would work in an open/unknown meta?

I would probably play 2-4 Vexing Shushers vs control variants, maybe 2-4 sweepers like Volcanic Fallout, and if Sulfuric Vortex is legal I'd pack 2-4 of those as well. And a split of Krosan Grip and Ancient grudge.

Phoenix Ignition
08-12-2012, 01:56 PM
Krosan Grip is very unnecesary, and you get much more out of Ancient Grudge, especially against affinity.

I'd probably run a sideboard with some combination of:

Ancient Grudge
Thrun, the last troll
Blood Moon (good against unsuspecting Jund too)
Combust
Firespout
Volcanic Fallout

Burnt-toast
08-14-2012, 08:48 PM
I've been wanting to break into modern as it is starting to get a little more popular in my area and this looks like althe perfect deck for me to break into it with.

Back onto topic: what are your thoughts on koth of the hammer? His plus ability gives you a dude, mana ramp(not sure if needed) or just bluffed lightning bolt mana at the very least. Plus if somehow you get to late game without winning already his emblem lets you machine gun kill with your lands.

Aslo, is gutteral response worth playing in the SB?