Vintage Metagame

[Phoenix Ignition]

I have no idea what's going on in this format. Perhaps those who do can post a bunch of tournament results here (large tournaments, where top 8 decklists will be indicative of good decks).

Also, if you aren't posting a website to the top 8s and are posting the deck lists, please put card brackets around your lists.

I realize I could look in the Deck forum, but a lot of times people post ideas and not the best lists.

[bfeingersh]

http://www.morphling.de/

[Phoenix Ignition]

Hmmm, I wish that place had names for deck types. Although this is funny:
The deck name was represented by a drawn image of a penis

So am I right in thinking that the following are deck archtypes?

Oath + Runescarred Demon
Bob + Snapacster + Jace control
Bob + Jace + Welder combo
Lots of Dredge
Storm Combo
Stax (tangle wire + chalice + friends)
Aggro Mud
Remora Combo (?)
Bazaar Madness
Bant aggro control


Some decks are strange to me. Vendilion Clique x2 in a deck with Empty the Warrens? Are the power cards so good that you can just play 10 cards and empty the warrens to win in a aggro control shell?

So it looks like you can just throw in power cards and then 10-15 cards from any Legacy deck and make it into a Vintage deck?

[Koby]

Without getting into an archetype discussion, I think the Vintage metagame is very diverse once you look beyond the quintessential Power suites. You named quite a few of the packages yourself, and I can add more off the top of my head.

Some Vintage deck resources:
TCdeck's Vintage archive (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Vintage)
Morphling.de Vintage archive (www.morphling.de)

Think of it like a Combo Platter, some from Column A and some from Column B:

Oath + [Griselbrand / Rune-scarred Demon / Terastadon / Emrakul-BSC]
Jace Control + [Bob / Trygon / Welder / Snapcaster / Keeper]
Workshop + [Metalworker / Smokestack / Painter's Grindestone]
Bazaar + [Dredge / Dragon / Madness]
Gush + [Storm / Cobra / Tempo]

Clearly, it's hard to organize each of these unique variations without having a large overlap due to how few cards it takes to make a different "flavor". For instance, an Empty the Warrens package in Gush is as few as 1-2 cards (typically Hurkyl's Recall and <storm spell>).

I also believe that with the investment commitment in Vintage that very few players change decks as easily or quickly as players in Legacy or Standard. This will lead to those same players only playing their preferred deck. In turn, this will cause unique "tricks". Thus, while a broad archetype may be apparent its hard to pinpoint each element in every deck.

[Julian23]

MUD! Saving your decks from the Tropical Storm! (http://blog.ellusionist.com/mud-saving-your-decks-from-the-tropical-storm/)

THIS is what I came across when I first tried finding decklists of "The Tropical Storm". Since googling for "Tropical Storm" directs you to weather websites, I added "Magic" and "decks" to it. The best part is that I started reading it, thinking it was some kind of weird Mexican tournament report...

Well, so much for finding information on the Vintage metagame on the internet... :wink:

[FuturePerfect]

Vintage has what it calls 'pillars' because the cards are uniquely impactful, haven't been restricted/out-powered with new prints and have a long history of tangential deck development:

Bazaar of Baghdad
Dark Ritual
Mana Drain
Mishra's Workshop

...the other two groups that are typically thought of as a major pillars are oath of druids decks and creature based 'hate' decks.

The composition of any of these pillars waxes and wanes (eg, right now creature decks are very popular and ritual decks are not) relative to card printings/restrictions/innovations.

The specifics of the parts for a given pillar have evolved often and continuously and can even seem diverse at a given point in time.

For example, mana drains, while not overly popular in T8's right now, will see play across the following deck lists:

Landstill
Bomberman
Gushbond
Bob/TVKey
Bob/Snapcaster
Drain Tendrils
Oath

These sub-variations happen across the various pillars. This makes appraising the Vintage metagame sort of a slippery endeavor, but hopefully a fun challenge :wink:

[Final Ritual]

I haven't played vintage in ages. The main reason is there is no one in my local area that has a deck. Another was I lost interest in the format. When they restricted brainstorm and unrestricted Gush again I felt that the format just degenerated into who resolved gush first.

I loved workshop/mud decks. My pet deck was TnT, is it still viable in the metagame?

[kombatkiwi]

creature based 'hate' decks.


In some of menendian's old writings I think he referred to this pillar as Null Rod

[nedleeds]

I'd say RU(g/b) Delver is almost it's own pillar.

Blue based aggro that eschews null rod in favor of more beats and red artifact removal. Most play Gush, it's a tough deck to handle if it wins the roll and can get the clock going. I think the less Oath around the more prominent it is.

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8751&iddeck=63863

etc.

[FuturePerfect]

In some of menendian's old writings I think he referred to this pillar as Null Rod

Steve has a special dislike for the semantics surrounding the definition 'hate deck'. The problem is that it's probably the most accurate and the most widely used colloquially. YMMV.


I'd say RU(g/b) Delver is almost it's own pillar.

This is exactly what I mean. If you look at how Delver wins, it's almost identical to traditional 'fish' or 'hate' lists except that it uses cheap counters and removal instead of more dedicated mana denial to create its window to beat down. Delver is a great innovation, and all of this is mostly arbitrary anyway. But I'd say for someone new to the format, it's useful to know how Delver is similar to other/past decks that use very different cards, but occupy a similar metagame role.

[nedleeds]

Delver is a great innovation

?

Really. I think Delver is one of the most obvious cards ever printed, it pretty much builds the deck around itself it's so far above anything blue has had in the aggro department. Christ ... to think Serendib Efreet used to be the standard in blue flying beats.