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TeenieBopper
10-20-2012, 08:15 PM
They're going to look back and say that 10/20/2012 was the day that Legacy died.

Discuss.

Megadeus
10-20-2012, 08:25 PM
It is a limited print run so I could see it not killing off legacy.

TeenieBopper
10-20-2012, 08:34 PM
The point is two fold, though:

1) Modern is set up in such a way to allow Wizards to do something they can't (or won't) do in Legacy; that is, reprint cards.

2) Wizards is doing something with Modern Masters that they don't appear to be willing to do for Legacy; that is, offer a set of commercdially reprints that are not legal in Standard.

Granted, having more Tarmogoyf's and Vendillion Clique will help Legacy. But Wizards still can't (or won't) reprint Duals, Force, Karakas, Candelabra, and whatever else that's legal in Legacy but not in Modern.

Megadeus
10-20-2012, 08:40 PM
Sad day :'( My prediction, by the end of next year, SCG will have a Modern Open instead of a Legacy Open... I could use a couple of Cliques though for whatever purpose...

clavio
10-20-2012, 08:59 PM
I would really like an explanation from Wizards about why they decided to do what they did with regards to the reserved list. They are going to make money on this set and they would absolutely make money on a Legacy Masters set. Right now dual lands being bought and sold makes Wizards $0. I know they made "a promise" to keep the reserved list, but I feel like basically everybody is in favor of doing away with it.


But yeah, this is bad. It's totally possible to build a top tier modern deck by setting aside 50-100 dollars a week for just a few weeks. It would take fucking forever to save up enough to build a Legacy deck. Not to mention that 100 dollars a week is a pretty big investment for a game.

Mr. Safety
10-20-2012, 09:02 PM
Link please...what is this new development?

EDIT: Just saw it on the forums...this is a set of boosters that only has reprints for the sole purpose of providing 'chase' cards for the modern format. I saw a spoiled new art Tarmogoyf.

This seems really odd...it seems that the conspiracy theory of 'tout modern, kill legacy' is starting to become valid. Frowny face...

Megadeus
10-20-2012, 09:08 PM
Link please...what is this new development?

Next June they will have a 229 card set I think is the number that they chose, of Modern playables from 8th edition all the way to alara block. It will contain a bucnh of stuff. And Goyf. Already spoiled the art for goyf. Also a few cards that were not mythic will be upgraded to mythic. Also it will be draftable. And it has a limited print run. Next June.

(nameless one)
10-20-2012, 09:23 PM
I would love to draft this. This will be awesome.

Nihil Credo
10-20-2012, 10:17 PM
Looking at the bright side of it: if Modern Masters sells like hotcakes and collectors who bought 4000 Goyfs when Future Sight came out don't bitch too much about it, it's going to make for a strong argument at Wizards in favour of printing money Legacy cards. Then, we still have no idea of what it would take to persuade Wizards to break the Reserved List - or even of whom to persuade.

The obvious downside is that anything that pushes Modern cannibalises Legacy to some degree, although you could make the case that a strong format between Standard and Legacy helps the latter by providing a stepping stone (e.g. many modern decks are a few duals and 4 FoWs away from turning into viable Legacy decks).

edit: huh, this is actually the Modern thread. Funny, the Legacy thread is all excited about this product while the Modern thread is talking about the reserved list.

Fizzeler
10-20-2012, 10:50 PM
Looking at the bright side of it: if Modern Masters sells like hotcakes and collectors who bought 4000 Goyfs when Future Sight came out don't bitch too much about it, it's going to make for a strong argument at Wizards in favour of printing money Legacy cards. Then, we still have no idea of what it would take to persuade Wizards to break the Reserved List - or even of whom to persuade.

The obvious downside is that anything that pushes Modern cannibalises Legacy to some degree, although you could make the case that a strong format between Standard and Legacy helps the latter by providing a stepping stone (e.g. many modern decks are a few duals and 4 FoWs away from turning into viable Legacy decks).

edit: huh, this is actually the Modern thread. Funny, the Legacy thread is all excited about this product while the Modern thread is talking about the reserved list.

This is true, if this product does well and is well received we may see another Masters set in the future maybe even one for specifically for Legacy

menace13
10-20-2012, 11:08 PM
Then, we still have no idea of what it would take to persuade Wizards to break the Reserved List - or even of whom to persuade.


And to derail the thread. Who, seems right. I mean, It has to be an influental group. I don't really know if it would consist of any retailers(SCG) when the possibility of grossing more sales even through a reduced price, could out number the net gains from a limited surplus. The demand for the high priced cards would still remain high keeping prices up as those are always going to be the most sought after.

The numbers are something WotC should have figures for, the workload and time increase for retailers to break into the black, the number of copies to aviod over flooding and retain pricing strats, the potential buyers (consisting of players, and collectors, new entrants from increased accessibility), loses from people walking away. Pretty sure they had a model they deemed profitable and wanted to push ahead.

Also, death of Legacy is rather forthcoming, inevitably. Costs will oust more than it pulls in.

Vintage will always serve as the reminder of, no matter how great a format.

cartoonist
10-21-2012, 12:50 AM
If Hasbro would realize what reprinting duals could do for the bottom line, they'd force the elimination of the reserved list, and swat aside litigious collectors with the hand of an angry god. Literally every single pack they print would sell immediately.

Then they would make a Magic movie. It is guaranteed to suck.

But we will have cards.

Megadeus
10-21-2012, 01:10 AM
If Hasbro would realize what reprinting duals could do for the bottom line, they'd force the elimination of the reserved list, and swat aside litigious collectors with the hand of an angry god. Literally every single pack they print would sell immediately.

Then they would make a Magic movie. It is guaranteed to suck.

But we will have cards.

I have no idea what you just said. I feel like I'm reading a green text story.

TeenieBopper
10-21-2012, 02:11 AM
edit: huh, this is actually the Modern thread. Funny, the Legacy thread is all excited about this product while the Modern thread is talking about the reserved list.

Yeah, well, Legacy exclusive players have never been the brightest, otherwise they'd be making money playing real formats.

Lord Seth
10-21-2012, 06:48 AM
This move seems interesting, though I do question how much of a help it'll be--in terms of either getting prices down or just making things more available--when it's stated to be a limited run. Maybe they're making it limited as a test run to see how it goes...and maybe it'll be a big limited run. Guess we'll see. Hopefully it'll be far less limited than things like From The Vaults, especially if it's draftable.

Sims
10-21-2012, 01:33 PM
I heard Modern Masters limited GP in North America and my pants got tight.

I'm really excited for this product, because I really enjoy Modern as a format and personally prefer it to Legacy as of late though locally there is only 1 Modern tournament running weekly versus the Legacy tournament 5 minutes from my apartment. Also, with Goyf already spoiled and the possibilities for cards such as Confidant, Clique, Thoughtseize, etc. It will give a hopefully cheaper alternative to get into Modern and give the standard players a reason to want to play, and also provide them cards that will allow them to participate in Legacy as well. It really seems situated to be a potential win-win all around, despite after the announcement at least one of the local collectors becoming irate that there might be a dent in his collection monetarily speaking.

socialite
10-21-2012, 01:55 PM
"a promise".

This has been posted ad nauseum. If it was fiscally responsible and beneficial for the whole of the game to abolish the reserve list and proceed with reprints WoTC/Hasbro would most definitely do so. Individuals on this forum seem incapable of understanding this fact. Large corporations do not go out of their way to plateau their income when there’s a hypothetical cash cow to milk.

Frankly (from my perspective) abolishing the reserve list would sink Standard and decrease the desire to purchase new sets as there are very few new additions to the eternal pool per set. At least with Modern they can continue to print staples in new sets (see Shock Lands in Rav 2.0) and attract semi-eternals to purchase product while not completely undermining Standard as a format. Some seem unreceptive to the fact that undermining the secondary market kills TCGs, i.e. Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh. Regardless of what economic forecast you believe to be true WoTC/Hasbro has obviously done the research to move forward with the current policy so move the fuck on.

On another note this is great news for Modern and while I currently do not play it I can only imagine this format will grow into its shoes over time as a format enjoyed by Type 1/1.5 players.

My 2c.

Lord Seth
10-21-2012, 08:48 PM
Some seem unreceptive to the fact that undermining the secondary market kills TCGs, i.e. Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh.Except both of those haven't been "killed" and are in fact still pretty popular.

DragoFireheart
10-21-2012, 10:25 PM
They're going to look back and say that 10/20/2012 was the day that Legacy died.

Discuss.

- Thank you WotC!

:smile:

Phoenix Ignition
10-21-2012, 11:47 PM
edit: huh, this is actually the Modern thread. Funny, the Legacy thread is all excited about this product while the Modern thread is talking about the reserved list.

You haven't been here much, have you? Modern is the forum where The Source comes to bitch about Modern.

TeenieBopper
10-22-2012, 12:13 AM
You haven't been here much, have you? Modern is the forum where The Source comes to bitch about Modern.

I think you misunderstand me (or at least my statement at the beginning of this thread). I hate Legacy. It fuckin' sucks. Modern is pretty cool, and certainly better than Legacy. I could stand to see a blue based control deck in the format, but otherwise I'm pretty happy.

Phoenix Ignition
10-22-2012, 12:28 AM
I think you misunderstand me (or at least my statement at the beginning of this thread). I hate Legacy. It fuckin' sucks. Modern is pretty cool, and certainly better than Legacy. I could stand to see a blue based control deck in the format, but otherwise I'm pretty happy.

Ah, my comment was not directed at yours. Check out any other thread in this section (Modern banned list one's a great starting point!) for chicken shit whiny bitching about Modern.

Lord Seth
10-22-2012, 02:17 AM
The official announcement (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218) is up if anyone wants to see.

Jamaican Zombie Legend
10-22-2012, 06:09 AM
The fact that the packs are $7 and Goyf was printed as a Mythic is pretty disgusting. The set is probably cheaper to make than normal sets (little design besides the draft format, probably less than 50% new art, no development) and Goyf is not some sort of Limited bomb that needs to be pushed to Mythic. The greed emanating from Wizards is astounding. I assume Cashseize, if it sees print in here, won't be at a sensible rarity like uncommon (what it should have been), and cards like Clique, Confidant, etc. will all be Mythic to get DAT CASHMONEY.

Phoenix Ignition
10-22-2012, 03:20 PM
Yeah, damn them for reprinting all the cards everyone wanted to see reprinted! And the audacity for charging more than normal for all of these eternal format staples! WTF is this company doing, trying to make money?????

FUCK THEM!

KobeBryan
10-22-2012, 04:55 PM
Yeah, damn them for reprinting all the cards everyone wanted to see reprinted! And the audacity for charging more than normal for all of these eternal format staples! WTF is this company doing, trying to make money?????

FUCK THEM!

Ya tell me about it..fuck the capitalist corporation who's primary goal is to make money.

dunk
10-22-2012, 05:18 PM
The fact that the packs are $7 and Goyf was printed as a Mythic is pretty disgusting. The set is probably cheaper to make than normal sets (little design besides the draft format, probably less than 50% new art, no development) and Goyf is not some sort of Limited bomb that needs to be pushed to Mythic. The greed emanating from Wizards is astounding. I assume Cashseize, if it sees print in here, won't be at a sensible rarity like uncommon (what it should have been), and cards like Clique, Confidant, etc. will all be Mythic to get DAT CASHMONEY.

Yeah they should have just made Chronicles 2 and reprint all cards as commons.

DragoFireheart
10-22-2012, 06:30 PM
The fact that the packs are $7 and Goyf was printed as a Mythic is pretty disgusting. The set is probably cheaper to make than normal sets (little design besides the draft format, probably less than 50% new art, no development) and Goyf is not some sort of Limited bomb that needs to be pushed to Mythic. The greed emanating from Wizards is astounding. I assume Cashseize, if it sees print in here, won't be at a sensible rarity like uncommon (what it should have been), and cards like Clique, Confidant, etc. will all be Mythic to get DAT CASHMONEY.

- Someone was asleep during the MTG history class.

Snap_Keep
10-22-2012, 07:09 PM
I think you misunderstand me (or at least my statement at the beginning of this thread). I hate Legacy. It fuckin' sucks. Modern is pretty cool, and certainly better than Legacy. I could stand to see a blue based control deck in the format, but otherwise I'm pretty happy.

Why do you post here?

Phoenix Ignition
10-22-2012, 08:34 PM
Why do you post here?

In the Modern section? Because he just said he likes modern...

Jamaican Zombie Legend
10-23-2012, 05:53 AM
Yeah, damn them for reprinting all the cards everyone wanted to see reprinted! And the audacity for charging more than normal for all of these eternal format staples! WTF is this company doing, trying to make money?????

FUCK THEM!

After reading my post again...damn..I must have been blazed out of my mind. No more herbal medicine and Souce-posting for this fool. Only drunk posting, like right now, where my writing is probably as not cogent, but less dramatic.

Sorry for the prima-donna douchebaggery, brothers. I think my previous post was definitely a little too, uh, loaded. But, I'm still a little dismayed by this product, because I don't think it will accomplish the goal it set out to do well enough. This set seems to be made with the intention of easing the barrier into Modern, which is a good thing. But $7 packs, a limited print run, and "strategically selected" mythics (like Goyf) seems like it will blunt any serious effect, which is quite a shame, because a lot of people want to get into Modern and want it to be the "accessible" eternal format.

I can understand when Wizards makes some decisions that screw the playerbase at large over. Making FTV sets a limited print run because those are basically thank-you-packages to stores, given to them to get a lot of markup profit on. Or curtailing reprints of Legacy/EDH staples to have a good stable of cards for the judge foil reards (gotta find some way to pay the judges). But this set seems like it's too much of a cash grab to really do what is intended. I don't see why they can't do thing differently, whether it be price point or rarity arrangement. Especially given that Wizards always claims they pay no heed to the secondary market, which makes certain actions seem really disingenuous here.

DragoFireheart
10-23-2012, 01:18 PM
Especially given that Wizards always claims they pay no heed to the secondary market, which makes certain actions seem really disingenuous here.

- When did they claim this? Everything they do seems to suggest the opposite.

socialite
10-23-2012, 03:23 PM
Except both of those haven't been "killed" and are in fact still pretty popular.


Not sure if serious.

heathen
10-23-2012, 03:34 PM
But, I'm still a little dismayed by this product, because I don't think it will accomplish the goal it set out to do well enough. This set seems to be made with the intention of easing the barrier into Modern, which is a good thing. But $7 packs, a limited print run, and "strategically selected" mythics (like Goyf) seems like it will blunt any serious effect, which is quite a shame, because a lot of people want to get into Modern and want it to be the "accessible" eternal format.

Didn't they/Forsythe explicitly say that this is basically a test, and they don't want to go overboard with it? You know what will happen if Modern Masters sells well? They will do it again. Have a little bit of patience. Modern is already accessible, IMO (obviously "accessible" is subjective). Sure, it may be prohibitively expensive to build Jund right now from scratch, but it's not like that's the only competitive deck. Every Modern deck doesn't need, or even want, Tarmogoyf. The cost of Modern "staples" seems less like the reason for people getting into Modern and more like an excuse.

csy
10-23-2012, 03:56 PM
in the last 2 years whenever WOTC puts money into something as a 'test' it doesn't end up going very well... planeswalker points if you will? Im all for Modern Masters, Ill be attending the GP, and Ill most likely buy a box or 2 and keep them sealed up in a closet somewhere. Other than that it doesn't bother me at all that the cards I have may or may not be worth as much as they may or may not have been worth X time from now. As for the dudes bitching about it being a cash grab..


DUH

TeenieBopper
10-23-2012, 06:57 PM
Why do you post here?

Check my join date, son.

lordofthepit
10-23-2012, 11:42 PM
Why do you post here?

"My name is Teenie Bopper. You killed my (favorite) format. Prepare to die!"

TeenieBopper
10-24-2012, 11:54 AM
"My name is Teenie Bopper. You killed my (favorite) format. Prepare to die!"

Nailed it.