Zombies B/G aggro

[joemauer]

I did not see a thread for this deck idea yet. So either it is a bad idea or I overlooked the thread for it.
Here is a decklist:

//maindeck

4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vengevine
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob

4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Woodland Cemetery
1 Blood Crypt
2 Marsh Flats
3 Swamp
3 Forest

//Sideboard
3 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Nature's Claim
2 Scattershot Archer



I don't play much Modern. If anyone could give me some insight on the metagame, that this deck could struggle in, please let me know.
And do throw card ideas at me, but please give me insight as to why they may be good inclusions.

[hamster]

We have a long discussion about G/B/X Madness on Starcity. You might wanna look into this list:

Creatures (38)

Recurring Beaters
4 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
4 Vengevine
Utility Beaters
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Oonas Prowler
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Chumps
4 Diregraf Ghoul

Disruption (4)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

Lands (24)
Basic Lands
3 Swamp
Fetches
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
Multicolor
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Twilight Mire

Basically I think that Liliana is too slow and that Zombie Infestation is a bad version of Oonas Prowler seeing as you have to discard two cards and can't discard uneven numbers. And you might wanna look into Vengevine. This should be your no1 beater in a deck like this. Discarding two of these, dropping two critters and then attack for a bunch is too good of a deal to pass up on.

[joemauer]

Thank you Hamster.

Few questions for you.

Liliana is really too slow?

I have considered Fauna Shaman. Do you think that Fauna may be an upgrade over Oona?

Is Thalia good in the current Modern Meta game?

IoK is better than thoughtseize? Why is that?

Finally, why is there no creature kill in the list you provided? This seems like a big deal.

[Davran]

I did not see a thread for this deck idea yet. So either it is a bad idea or I overlooked the thread for it.
Here is a decklist:

//maindeck

4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodghast
4 Deathrite Shaman

2 Liliana of the Vess
2 Darkblast
4 Thoughtseize
2 Zombie Infestation
2 Doom Blade
4 Rancor
2 Malestrom Pulse

4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Swamp
3 Forest

//Sideboard
3 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Nature's Claim
2 Raven's Crime



I don't play much Modern. If anyone could give me some insight on the metagame, that this deck could struggle in, please let me know.
And do throw card ideas at me, but please give me insight as to why they may be good inclusions.

I assume you mean Liliana of the Veil?

I'm not sure I like Zombie Infestation in here because not only do you have to go 2 for 1, but Pyroclasm is a very popular sideboard card and this encourages you to overextend. Something like Oona's Prowler might prove to be a more effective discard outlet.

Have you considered the value of Thoughtseize vs. Inquisition of Kozilek? It seems that many of the cards you would be concerned with have a CMC less than 3 (i.e. Path to Exile, Pyroclasm, Rest in Peace etc.) so there may be little benefit to losing that extra 2 life.

Abrupt Decay might be better than Doom Blade. Again, most of the creatures you're looking to kill will have a CMC less than 3. Plus, Abrupt Decay gives you a main deck out to problem cards like Cranial Plating in game 1 and extra answers to grave hate in games 2 and 3. Plus, the uncounterability is relevant vs. decks that play Spell Snare.

I'm not sure what benefit you're expecting out of Ghost Quarter. It's mediocre at best vs. Tron, and you're not really going to "get" someone like you can with a Wasteland in legacy. You're probably better off running more basics/fixing.

[hamster]

My bad I thought you meant Liliana Vess. I still think that Lilly 2.0 is a bit grindy for what the deck is trying to do. T3 you wanna land a bunch of creatures and put maximum pressure on the opponent. I might be wrong though. I would start putting her in the SB and bring her in for grindy matches where the opponent has enough hate and removal to stop you from killing him within the first couple of turns (you have to keep in mind that this deck is extremely explosive, so T4 kills happens more than you'd think)

I think that Thalia is pretty amazing in any format, even Standard. She slows down Tron, Storm, Nivmagus, Eggs etc. Even Pod has to wait and extra turn to cast the named sake card and Jund has to spend extra mana on their removal which messes up their curve.

Inquisition could be Thougtseize I guess that depends on your meta. Inquisition is in there because you take a lot of pain from your mana base which already gives aggro an edge. You don't wanna Lava Axe yourself T1 too often (Fetch into Shockland into Thoughtseize). Plus you have Sculler to take care of their high end stuff.

You could put removal in the SB (which you probably should against hate bears at least). I haven't tested this particular build, but have tested a Jund version of it and I've found that removal is not necessary most of the time. You'd rather be swarming the board with beaters than spending turns removing blockers.

I have been thinking of Fauna too. She might be worth a test drive. She slows the deck down considerably which might be too big of a downside. With her you can't go "T1 Diregraf Ghoul T2 Prawler T3 discard 2 Vengevines, play 2 more beaters, recur the Vengevines and attack for 10" for instance but you'd have to wait an extra turn while you only get to discard one Vine/Ghast at a time. Again she's probably better for the more grindy matchups.

[HorseshoeCrab]

I'll chime in here and agree that Liliana of the Veil easily wins out Zombie Infestation. Don't forget that Lili also kills their creatures AND can become a wicked removal spell if the game goes really long. I've had a few Junk playtest games where I was able to get off Lili's ultimate. I don't think losing all of those extra abilities is worth paying 1 less mana. It would be a closer race if Zombie Infestation cost 1 card per Zombie, but 2 is just bad. Would you play:

2BB
Instant

You may cast this card without paying its mana cost by discarding another card from your hand.
Put a 2/2 Black Zombie token into play.

I would try this in Standard, but not anything else.

[boneclub24]

I agree that you need Abrupt Decay here. Card is just silly good. I'd cut a Zombie Infestation and the 2 Blades for 3. I'd also add another Lilly over the 2nd Infestation.

Cut the Quarters for more fetches to make your Shamans more consistent.

[joemauer]

I used the numberous suggestions and updated the list.

I am still unsure of Oona's Prowler over Fauna Shaman. In my limited testing, I have found Fauna Shaman to be a beast in this deck.

I am also quite suprised of the suggestion to remove the Ghost Quarters. I thought that would be a solid card against Tron, but you guys play more Modern than I do so I will take ya'lls word for it.

If anybody does any testing with this decklist let me know of any matchups that are difficult(or easy) of the top tier decks.

[sco0ter]

Don't dismiss Zombie Infestation too soon. I even saw Vintage decklists playing it.
The key to make it work is Squee, Goblin Nabob, which happens to also work well with Lotleth Troll.
Give it a try, I always liked this combination in my Madness deck.

Maybe Veilborn Ghoul is an option, too?

[joemauer]

Don't dismiss Zombie Infestation too soon. I even saw Vintage decklists playing it.
The key to make it work is Squee, Goblin Nabob, which happens to also work well with Lotleth Troll.
Give it a try, I always liked this combination in my Madness deck.

Maybe Veilborn Ghoul is an option, too?

Squee is fantastic idea that I forgot was Modern legal! I will try and squeeze in one or two after I get some playtesting in.

I haven't completely dismissed Zombie Infestation. I cut it because discarding two cards is too big of an investment for a 2/2 zombie. This deck doesn't want to discard that many cards, surprisingly. Squee may change that though.

Veilborn Ghoul seems unplayable at 5 mana. The deck only plays 22 lands.

[sco0ter]

Squee is fantastic idea that I forgot was Modern legal! I will try and squeeze in one or two after I get some playtesting in.

I haven't completely dismissed Zombie Infestation. I cut it because discarding two cards is too big of an investment for a 2/2 zombie. This deck doesn't want to discard that many cards, surprisingly. Squee may change that though.

Veilborn Ghoul seems unplayable at 5 mana. The deck only plays 22 lands.

I'd play 4 Squee. Veilborn Ghoul was not intended to be casted, but just as a card, which can be discarded and then be returned, but it's probably still too bad, because it needs a Swamp.

[HorseshoeCrab]

Squee is a nice catch. That seems sweet as a recurring Lotleth Troll pump as well.

BTW variations of this deck are being discussed in recent SCG Premium articles. If this deck has legs, everyone knows about it now ;)

[Hireax]

Can you recur Vengevine consistently enough? I am curious as, and correct me if I am wrong, you don't actually cast Bloodghast when he comes back. Meaning that, although you have a higher recurring creature density, you need to cast another creature, leaving you with less discard outlets.

The deck seems seriously strong though. Might try and give this a spin in online testing

[joemauer]

Can you recur Vengevine consistently enough? I am curious as, and correct me if I am wrong, you don't actually cast Bloodghast when he comes back. Meaning that, although you have a higher recurring creature density, you need to cast another creature, leaving you with less discard outlets.

The deck seems seriously strong though. Might try and give this a spin in online testing

Fauna Shaman makes recurring Vengevines easy. Just ditch a Vengevine one turn for a Gravecrawler, then ditch a Gravecrawler for another crawler or a Troll and cast both. Bloodghast is a trigger, but Gravecrawler is actually cast from the graveyard.


Some thoughts on the deck:

I have replaced Maelstrom Pulse x3 with Squee x3. This has worked very well. Squee is usually the first creature I fetch with Fauna in grindy games. Squee makes our Trolls big quickly.

Deathrite Shaman is a card played in Modern and is a problem for this deck. If I don't have an abrupt decay in hand then Deathrite can lead to problems for this deck. Anyone have ideas here? Maybe a singleton Revoker?

Also Deathrite is not nearly as good as I thought it would be. I admittedly added it to the deck because I though he was a Zombie(the picture tricked me). I may switch him out for Green Sun's Zenith with a singleton Dryad Arbor. Giving the deck easier access to turn two Lilianas or getting Fauna or Troll(the deck's best two creatures) at will.

I have considered going down to 21 lands to add another Abrupt Decay. This deck doesn't use that many lands. Vengevine is rarely hardcast.

I am unsure of Inquisition of Kozilek in the maindeck. It is the worst topdeck and doesn't do enough for this deck.

Finally, has anyone tested Grisly Salvage? Seems like it may be worth testing. I just don't know what to cut. As the improvements are being made the decklist is becoming tighter.

[HorseshoeCrab]

Green Sun's Zenith is banned. All of the other ideas sound fine, but you really need to test and find out what will work.

Deathrite is a tough issue, because while you can run targeted hate to kill it, you also need to still deal with every other deck that you may face. Maybe try Dismember, since that kills everything from Deathrite all the way up to Baneslayer Angel.

[Anusien]

In general what is the appeal of this over Jund? It looks like a more aggro, less disruptive Jund. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

[joemauer]

In general what is the appeal of this over Jund? It looks like a more aggro, less disruptive Jund. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

The appeal of the deck is that it is strong against mid-range decks like Jund because it can out aggro other decks.

This deck is also strong against controlish decks and solid against combo decks.

Lotleth Troll is a serious threat that is difficult to remove, unless someone is playing Path of course. He is an underrated creature in Modern at the moment.

The deck certainly has some problems with fast decks like affinity. That is why I have added a couple Shattershot Archers in the board. It is still a problem though. I am not sure how to solve this problem at the moment.

Gravehate hasn't been a problem for this deck yet. Shamans, the most difficult hurdle for this deck, can be dealt with by Abrupt Decay. Other forms of hate are too narrow to worry about: Charm being a one shot and Surgical only nabbing one creature. If something like Rest in Peace does come down then it can be ignored with a 5/4 or 6/5 Troll that tramples and Regenerates.

[Phoenix Ignition]

If something like Rest in Peace does come down then it can be ignored with a 5/4 or 6/5 Troll that tramples and Regenerates.

So if the white deck that's playing Rest in Peace has Path to Exile you're screwed?

[joemauer]

So if the white deck that's playing Rest in Peace has Path to Exile you're screwed?

Pretty much.