[DTB] Jund

[Hapless Researcher]

Primer: Modern Jund

Introduction:
Jund is a Modern port over of the dominant 2009 Standard deck, using optimal card choices from across the format to intensify the archetype’s raw power. It has been so strong in the Modern format, it is considered one of the few quintessential decks to beat, and has even inspired the development of a Legacy Jund build here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24956-Jund).

Historical Development:
Early on Jund came onto the scene, debuting at one of the first Modern tournaments in the format’s history in the TCG Player 75K in Chicago (08/2011).

The list was truly a port over from its Standard build, with an important inclusion: Tarmogoyf.

Jason Dank: 6th Place at TCG Player 75K

Creatures: 17

1 Anathemancer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Putrid Leech
4 Tarmogoyf

Instants: 8
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate

Sorcery: 11
3 Harmonize
4 Blightning
4 Maelstrom Pulse

Lands: 24
2 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Savage Lands
2 Raging Ravine
3 Rootbound Crag
2 Dragonskull Summit

Now, I’m not even going to bother with sideboard, because it’s more of the same: 2009 Standard with a couple legacy cards thrown in. We did learn a valuable lesson from this though. It is not correct to run basic mountains in Jund. This is because Blood Moon is a common hate card in the format, so red sources will be in abundance regardless.

The next innovation of the archetype came after the release of Scars of Mirrodin, which introduced an adaptation to the manabase with Blackcleave Cliffs. In addition with the advent of combo and fast aggro, the deck configurations changed drastically to keep up, and Blightning was replaced with Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize. The disruption package was enhanced with the release of Innistrad in the inclusion of Liliana of the Veil.

A new normal was established for the archetype, with many lists sharing the same core of:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Lightning Bolt
1-2 Terminate

3-4 Inquisition of Kozliek
2-3 Thoughtseize
2 Maelstrom Pulse

This remained true until the advent of Return to Ravnica, which brought us two of current Jund’s most potent weapons: Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay.

The Core
Nowadays, traditional Jund has a new core that is even more resilient if such a thing is possible, and it looks like:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
3-4 Deathrite Shaman
2-3 Kitchen Finks/Geralf’s Messenger

2-3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2-3 Thoughtseize
1-2 Terminate
2-3 Abrupt Decay
0-2 Maelstrom Pulse

8 Fetches (Non-Negotiable)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3-4 Assorted Shocks
1-2 Filter Lands
4-5 Man Lands
2-3 Basics (No Mountains, guys)

You should ultimately run 24 lands, as Deathrite Shaman has brought acceleration to the archetype.

How the Deck Works:
Jund is a composition of the best removal in the format, and brings answers for all comers. It compliments this with the addition of efficient creatures to apply pressure while reducing the opponent to a topdecking situation. Early disruption combined with removal and creatures that have to be answered. This makes this deck a headache for most archetypes. However, your Achilles heel is that while you have answers to most things, you need them at the right times. As such, the deck is 50/50 across the field. This is the price one has to pay in order to have no bad match ups.

The Sideboard:
As always, sideboarding is very meta dependant. Here are some general sideboarding options we have against some of the prominent archetypes.

U/W Restoration Control:
Torpor Orb: Shuts down Angels, Snapcasters, and Kitchen Finks
Thoughtseize: Increasing early game discard takes them off of their plans.
Grafdigger’s Cage: Shut down Snapcasters and Persist.

Storm:
Grafdigger’s Cage: Stops the whole show.
Extirpate/Surgical Extraction: This is a strategic removal of key cards. Without Manamorphose the deck struggles to go off. I personally favor Extirpate because it is essentially uncounterable. (Not many Willbenders running around)
Thoughtseize: Additional removal tends to be great against combo

Affinity:
Ancient Grudge: Boom
Shatterstorm: Bigger Boom
Pyroclasm: Can just blow out some of their faster less resilient hands.
Jund Charm: Can create favorable blocks and blow out the field.

Tron:
Blood Moon: No, seriously. With Shamans, basics, and everything else, we can bring this in and have the element of surprise.
Fulminator Mage: The wasteland on legs.
Extirpate: You can exile a tron piece after a liliana activation, very risky.
Sowing Salt: This can be cast as early as turn 3 thanks to shaman. GG, tron.

Infect:
Chalice of the Void: Give it some though. A chalice on 1 makes it nearly impossible for infect to beat you.
Ancient Grudge: Can take card of Inkmoth.
Pyroclasm/Jund Charm: Either draws their pump from you or clears the field.
Dismember: This is a must if infect is big.

Gifts/Rites:
Extirpate: Kills the combo
Grafdigger’s Cage: Shuts down reanimation.
Plummet: If it gets big, this will allow you to stop an Iona.

The Matchups:
As a note, I’d like to state again you have no bad matchups with Jund, but also no good ones.

U/W Control:
Considered slightly unfavorable, it really comes down to playskill. Draw their removal and use it to ramp into stronger threats. You can grind them out. Shaman is a big role player here. Your weaker cards in this matchup are going to be things like Decay since it can’t target their go to threats.

Infect:
Early removal is the key. Make sure to get them with things like bolt when tapped out, but Dismember when untapped. Sometimes, they’ll have the nuts, but it’s really a coin flip. Sorcery speed removal is typically bad here.

Robots:
This all comes down to drawing your removal. Threat density is not an issue here; you need to stop them. This is the typical situation, but you can race them with a double Tarmogoyf draw.

Tron:
This will come down to if you’re prepared, as it’s not always a big part of the meta.

Storm:
Games 2/3 are favorable, but game 1 is not. Bring in all the hate you can and lose as much dedicated removal as possible.

Gifts/Rite: You get your answers to resolve and out aggro them, you win. Mulligan wisely here and your hate should see you through. Shaman is an all star here.

Variations:

Spirit Jund:
This deck has sacrificed resiliency for raw power, but has created a super greedy mana base in the aftermath. It had some success at the last GP, but I think the list is a Death Wish if people are ready for it.

Blightning Build:
Some people have skewed the 2-3 of Messenger/Finks for Blightning. This opens you up to much more of the weaknesses that your disruption packages suffer from, and ultimately I think is a liability.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Personal preference, but I hate when primers list old decks in the same format as the one they are suggesting is the newest one. If someone just wants to skim over the thread to get the most current build you shouldn't force "the old ways" down their throats.

[dunk]

I agree with Phoenix Ignition, what's the point of a primer if the only list you show is over a year old?

Also, regarding Spirit Jund, you are totally wrong on there. It's just superior to the older versions in nearly every way. I don't know how much you played the old version, but 4 Treetop Village made for a worse manabase than a singleton Godless Shrine and a Plains ever could. Also, the spirit tokens defeat different weakness against... flyers... no matter if you play against Infect, Affinity or UW. Not to mention the advantage you have in the mirror if you play against a list without Souls. Stuff like Kitchen Finks or Geralfs Messenger are just not good enough. Especially Kitchen finks sucks without Pod or Restoration Angel.
Another benefit of the white splash are the possible Rule of Law for the sideboard, which force the Storm player to board in several bouncespells, in turn weakening their draws. And if they don't have an answer nearly immediately, they die. Perfect answer to an otherwise hard to come by matchup.

[JACO]

I agree with Phoenix Ignition, what's the point of a primer if the only list you show is over a year old?

Also, regarding Spirit Jund, you are totally wrong on there. It's just superior to the older versions in nearly every way. I don't know how much you played the old version, but 4 Treetop Village made for a worse manabase than a singleton Godless Shrine and a Plains ever could. Also, the spirit tokens defeat different weakness against... flyers... no matter if you play against Infect, Affinity or UW. Not to mention the advantage you have in the mirror if you play against a list without Souls. Stuff like Kitchen Finks or Geralfs Messenger are just not good enough. Especially Kitchen finks sucks without Pod or Restoration Angel.
Another benefit of the white splash are the possible Rule of Law for the sideboard, which force the Storm player to board in several bouncespells, in turn weakening their draws. And if they don't have an answer nearly immediately, they die. Perfect answer to an otherwise hard to come by matchup.I agree with dunkle_stille here. The white splash for Lingering Souls is very good right now, and sacrificing Treetop Village for Godless Shrines is fine. Lingering Souls (and other white splash options) do a lot to shore up the previous incarnations' weaknesses to the current field.

One thing I would focus more on in your primer/intro post is Jund's ability to constantly change and adapt slots to the metagame. Is it all aggro and you need more lifegain? Kitchen Finks, Obstinate Baloth, and Batterskull are the answer. Is it a bunch of small pesky flying threats that you need answers to? Olivia Voldaren and Lingering Souls are the answer. Is there a ton of combo in your expected metagame? Blightning, Slaughter Games, and Rule of Law provide answers. One of the reasons Jund is so good is because it has the most efficient disruption and answers, and is extremely adaptable.

[Fizzeler]

Spirit Jund is the top version of the deck atm, it is very resilient has great late game, and is consistent

I would add for sideboarding the Delver decks (usually URW)
Also Cage does not stop Storm if they run Epic

URW Delver/Geist Aggro
Pyroclasm
Ancient Grudge (For Scepter if they are running it)
Fulminator Mage (For Eiganjo Castle mainly)

How is the GW Hatebears match-up looking?

[Hapless Researcher]

I plan to update the primer soon, I had ported it over from a previous Primer I had written.

Spirit Jund is a strong option, and I will be incorporating it in the primer. However, 3 color is still viable without the white as it's heavily meta dependent. Souls is strong right now due to the aggression of the format, but if combo asserts itself more, Souls becomes much weaker and a reversion could take place.

As to the old list, I simply incorporated them so that we can see the historical development of the deck, to understand card choices. The theory and methodology is important.

[ryn ball_2]

hello jund players, can i share my list here and tourney report? i went 1st in a 5 rounder swiss plus top 4 play offs this last saturday winning a m13 playmat nicol bolas,

thanks :smile:

[Hapless Researcher]

hello jund players, can i share my list here and tourney report? i went 1st in a 5 rounder swiss plus top 4 play offs this last saturday winning a m13 playmat nicol bolas,

thanks :smile:

Please do.

[ryn ball_2]

Please do.

thanks! :smile:

Here's my list
4 bob
4 goyf
4 BBe
4 shaman
2 finks

1 pulse
2 seize
4 IOK

2 decay
2 terminate
4 bolt

3 liliana of the veil

4 treetop village
4 blackcleave cliffs
4 verdant catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 misty rainforest
2 twilight mire
2 swamp
1 forest
1 overgrown tomb
1 blood crypt
1 stomping ground

//SB
1 EE
2 seize
2 golgari charm
2 rakdos charm
2 fulminator mage
2 obstinate baloth
2 melira
2 cage

*my sb looks terrible cuz i'm facing an unknown meta in my local first time in firing modern here so i anticipated to have all answers from affinity, infect, valakut, tron, fish, burn, mirror match, combo decks, naya pod, uwr control decks

R1: bye yehey :laugh:

R2: vs merfolk: 0-2
game 1 was i been overrun by many fishes and i drew several lands instead of removals that i wish for

Game 2 got prepared to his onslaught, i even kill 4 fishes namely 3 silvergerl and 1 cursecatcher via 1 golgari charm sweet, but kira comes down and i was short of 1 removal in my hand and this kira took beatdown w/ spreading seas on my sources so sick about that spreading seas!!

R3: vs burn: 2-0
Game 1 early disruption via IOK and drop a big goyf beating his face and the burn player kills my goyf trading 1 goyf for 2 bolts instead of pointing it on my face but another goyf popped up from BBE cascade and he ran out of gas and goyf BBE beatdown this time

Game 2 early shaman and early finks ramp up my life total followed by IOK disruption and drop a big goyf again beating his field w/ finks, goyf and drop liliana to clean his hand and its game.

R4: vs UWR control: 2-0

Game 1 started w/ IOK disruption leaving his hand useless for several turns followed by unanswerable turn 2 bob from my side and took massive card advantage w/ hand disruption removing his counters so i resolved a BBE and cascade for pulse hitting his pike on the saint traft and do beatdown w/ BBE allowing my bob to be exchange w/ his saint traft w/ my hand of handfull of goyfs and removals whilst his hand contains nothing significant

Game 2 starting again w/ IOK disruption and shaman on the following turns and landed a safe bob on the another turn but met by bolt, I IOK again his hand a saw a counterflux! nice tech against cascade so i dont cast BBE for several turns instead i cast goyf as a trap if he will use his counterflux but he did not as a result he cant resist goyf's beatdown w/ shaman burning his life thanks to 2nd ability and the game ended by a bolt :smile:

R5: vs merfolk 1-2
Game 1 very consistent w/ my 2nd rounder overrun by my fishes!

Game 2 i threw all of my disruption! discarding his silvergerl another disruption grab lords and i have enough removals sitting in my hand for potentially threat like lords and bob gave removals and creatures like i wanted

Game 3 this game is really annoying even i resolved a bob early in the game my manabase was ruined by many spreading seas!!!, spreading seas on my green sources leaving a black and red as an available mana and i cant cast goyf, BBE, decay even i terminated his one of his lord i cant put up attrition wars due to spreading seas my green sources leaving bob as a sole creature on the field and he always vapor snag my freshly cast shaman

after the swiss i already pack my things leaving a 3-2 standing and preparing to go home but the TO announces that i made it to top 4 qualified for top 4 play offs for the playmat and packs
After swiss:
1) merfolk (my 2nd rounder opponent)
2) merfolk (my 5th rounder opponent)
3) spirit jund
4) me lol

On the semis
Top 4 playoffs vs merfolk (my 2nd rounder opponent): 2-0

Game 1 by this time i gonna be prepared, good hand w/ discards, bolts, bob, shaman and lands, i'm on the draw he started via island---vial---go, on my turn i IOK his hand revealing pierce, 2 lords, silvergerl w/ no lands and i took the silvergerl and passes.
Nothing on his turn he just put a counter to his vial and played another vial then passes. I play bob i knew this will resolved and i passes. Again nothing on his side he just add another counter on his vials and passes. Bob flipped a pulse and draw a card, by this time i'm itching to pulse his vials but it can be met by pierce so instead i play shaman and passes (not to attack he might activate his vial dropping 2 cmc lord) and he did he drop it at my EOT and his lord met an abrupt decay. Nothing significant again on his side just putting counters on the vial and passes. Bob reveals goyf and i drew a card, still i cant pulse his vials instead i play goyf and passes then he again activate his vial dropping another lord but met by bolt. Nothing significant on his side and he passes by this time i started burning his life thanks to shaman. Bob flips a land i wish bob would flip a IOK to grab that pierce, but this time my pulse are active (i can pay the tax for the pierce) so i destroy his vial as a responce he drop his fishes via 2 vials but my goyf is bigger than them so i started to do some beatdown and that 2 fishes met 2 bolts at my EOT. He drew card and concedes

Game 2 my opening hand is really good 2 bolts, shaman, iok lands, he play island and go. I play IOK but met by pierce and passes. He play vial and a land then passes. I play shaman and passes. He counter up his vial play a land and cast silvergerl then passes. Drew a golgari charm and play a land and passes. On his upkeep i golgari charm his silvergerl in response to his vial , he up again his vial and played 2 lords via 2 lands and 1 vial and passes leaving a lone island untapped. Bolted his 2 lords thanks he dont have pierce and i passes. Nothing on his side he passes, now i start burning his life using the shaman. Drew a finks and cast it. On his turn he phantasmal image my finks and passes, burning him again. I played baloth and attack w/ finks blocks w/ the image peristed it and copy my baloth, darn i should attack first then play baloth. Nothing significant on his side and passes. I drew goyf and attacks w/ finks and baloth he blocks the baloth then i cast goyf and he concedes he showed his hand w/ handfull of lands. sweet revenge! :smile:

On the opposite table spirit jund wins! so it is a mirror match on the finals!

Finals vs spirit jund 2-1
Game 1 i kept my 7 and he mulls to 6, started w/ IOK taking his bob leaving removals 1 bolt, 1 terminate and couple of lands on his side the passes. He played shaman off the top and passes. I kill the shaman via bolt and played my own shaman and passes. He terminated my shaman and passes. I drew land and play it then passes. He play his ravine and passes. A liliana off the top and i play it immediately activate her +1 leaving 2 cards on his hand i guess and passes. He play his treetop and passes. Goyf off the top and play it then +1 again my liliana and passes. He play his goyf too and passes. I drew a land -2 my liliana targeting my opponent and attack w/ goyf and play a treetop village. He drew and play a land. I drew a card fetch it to liliana +1 activated the treetop and attack w/ goyf and treetop he scooped.

Game 2, on this game both shaman on the opposite side of the table doesnt stay long they been met by our bolts and i drew several lands and suddenly he hard cast a lingering souls still i drew several lands holding a bunch of lands while he do beatdown via souls and flashes back to produce token again. But this time i drew bob and play it. He attacks w/ 4 souls i decayed one of the souls taking 3 and i'm down to 4. If i flip BBE i'm dead, if pulse i can survive 1 turn but i flipped land and drew land :laugh: i scooped.

Game 3 i kept my 6 and he kept his 5, IOK his hand on my first turn grab his liliana and passes. He play marsh flats and passes. On my turn i play shaman and met by bolt EOT and i passes. He play his bob and passes but met by my bolt. I play my bob and it sticks. He play ravine and passes. Bob flips BBE and drew a card, i cast BBE cascade to goyf, BBE attacks and i play my treetop and passes.
Nothing on his side and passes. Bob flips for a finks and drew a baloth, cast the baloth and attacks w/ BBE and goyf and passes. He drew a card a concede, he shows his hand w/ handfull of lands.

After the tourney, to sum it all spreading seas hurts alot decreasing my chance of winning against them wasting my decay for it instead for his creatures and my spirit jund opponent suggested back to nature to hand those seas esp when many seas are enchanted our lands. How about you guys? do you experience this issue? thanks!

[Hapless Researcher]

thanks! :smile:

Here's my list
4 bob
4 goyf
4 BBe
4 shaman
2 finks

1 pulse
2 seize
4 IOK

2 decay
2 terminate
4 bolt

3 liliana of the veil

4 treetop village
4 blackcleave cliffs
4 verdant catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 misty rainforest
2 twilight mire
2 swamp
1 forest
1 overgrown tomb
1 blood crypt
1 stomping ground

//SB
1 EE
2 seize
2 golgari charm
2 rakdos charm
2 fulminator mage
2 obstinate baloth
2 melira
2 cage

*my sb looks terrible cuz i'm facing an unknown meta in my local first time in firing modern here so i anticipated to have all answers from affinity, infect, valakut, tron, fish, burn, mirror match, combo decks, naya pod, uwr control decks

R1: bye yehey :laugh:

R2: vs merfolk: 0-2
game 1 was i been overrun by many fishes and i drew several lands instead of removals that i wish for

Game 2 got prepared to his onslaught, i even kill 4 fishes namely 3 silvergerl and 1 cursecatcher via 1 golgari charm sweet, but kira comes down and i was short of 1 removal in my hand and this kira took beatdown w/ spreading seas on my sources so sick about that spreading seas!!

R3: vs burn: 2-0
Game 1 early disruption via IOK and drop a big goyf beating his face and the burn player kills my goyf trading 1 goyf for 2 bolts instead of pointing it on my face but another goyf popped up from BBE cascade and he ran out of gas and goyf BBE beatdown this time

Game 2 early shaman and early finks ramp up my life total followed by IOK disruption and drop a big goyf again beating his field w/ finks, goyf and drop liliana to clean his hand and its game.

R4: vs UWR control: 2-0

Game 1 started w/ IOK disruption leaving his hand useless for several turns followed by unanswerable turn 2 bob from my side and took massive card advantage w/ hand disruption removing his counters so i resolved a BBE and cascade for pulse hitting his pike on the saint traft and do beatdown w/ BBE allowing my bob to be exchange w/ his saint traft w/ my hand of handfull of goyfs and removals whilst his hand contains nothing significant

Game 2 starting again w/ IOK disruption and shaman on the following turns and landed a safe bob on the another turn but met by bolt, I IOK again his hand a saw a counterflux! nice tech against cascade so i dont cast BBE for several turns instead i cast goyf as a trap if he will use his counterflux but he did not as a result he cant resist goyf's beatdown w/ shaman burning his life thanks to 2nd ability and the game ended by a bolt :smile:

R5: vs merfolk 1-2
Game 1 very consistent w/ my 2nd rounder overrun by my fishes!

Game 2 i threw all of my disruption! discarding his silvergerl another disruption grab lords and i have enough removals sitting in my hand for potentially threat like lords and bob gave removals and creatures like i wanted

Game 3 this game is really annoying even i resolved a bob early in the game my manabase was ruined by many spreading seas!!!, spreading seas on my green sources leaving a black and red as an available mana and i cant cast goyf, BBE, decay even i terminated his one of his lord i cant put up attrition wars due to spreading seas my green sources leaving bob as a sole creature on the field and he always vapor snag my freshly cast shaman

after the swiss i already pack my things leaving a 3-2 standing and preparing to go home but the TO announces that i made it to top 4 qualified for top 4 play offs for the playmat and packs
After swiss:
1) merfolk (my 2nd rounder opponent)
2) merfolk (my 5th rounder opponent)
3) spirit jund
4) me lol

On the semis
Top 4 playoffs vs merfolk (my 2nd rounder opponent): 2-0

Game 1 by this time i gonna be prepared, good hand w/ discards, bolts, bob, shaman and lands, i'm on the draw he started via island---vial---go, on my turn i IOK his hand revealing pierce, 2 lords, silvergerl w/ no lands and i took the silvergerl and passes.
Nothing on his turn he just put a counter to his vial and played another vial then passes. I play bob i knew this will resolved and i passes. Again nothing on his side he just add another counter on his vials and passes. Bob flipped a pulse and draw a card, by this time i'm itching to pulse his vials but it can be met by pierce so instead i play shaman and passes (not to attack he might activate his vial dropping 2 cmc lord) and he did he drop it at my EOT and his lord met an abrupt decay. Nothing significant again on his side just putting counters on the vial and passes. Bob reveals goyf and i drew a card, still i cant pulse his vials instead i play goyf and passes then he again activate his vial dropping another lord but met by bolt. Nothing significant on his side and he passes by this time i started burning his life thanks to shaman. Bob flips a land i wish bob would flip a IOK to grab that pierce, but this time my pulse are active (i can pay the tax for the pierce) so i destroy his vial as a responce he drop his fishes via 2 vials but my goyf is bigger than them so i started to do some beatdown and that 2 fishes met 2 bolts at my EOT. He drew card and concedes

Game 2 my opening hand is really good 2 bolts, shaman, iok lands, he play island and go. I play IOK but met by pierce and passes. He play vial and a land then passes. I play shaman and passes. He counter up his vial play a land and cast silvergerl then passes. Drew a golgari charm and play a land and passes. On his upkeep i golgari charm his silvergerl in response to his vial , he up again his vial and played 2 lords via 2 lands and 1 vial and passes leaving a lone island untapped. Bolted his 2 lords thanks he dont have pierce and i passes. Nothing on his side he passes, now i start burning his life using the shaman. Drew a finks and cast it. On his turn he phantasmal image my finks and passes, burning him again. I played baloth and attack w/ finks blocks w/ the image peristed it and copy my baloth, darn i should attack first then play baloth. Nothing significant on his side and passes. I drew goyf and attacks w/ finks and baloth he blocks the baloth then i cast goyf and he concedes he showed his hand w/ handfull of lands. sweet revenge! :smile:

On the opposite table spirit jund wins! so it is a mirror match on the finals!

Finals vs spirit jund 2-1
Game 1 i kept my 7 and he mulls to 6, started w/ IOK taking his bob leaving removals 1 bolt, 1 terminate and couple of lands on his side the passes. He played shaman off the top and passes. I kill the shaman via bolt and played my own shaman and passes. He terminated my shaman and passes. I drew land and play it then passes. He play his ravine and passes. A liliana off the top and i play it immediately activate her +1 leaving 2 cards on his hand i guess and passes. He play his treetop and passes. Goyf off the top and play it then +1 again my liliana and passes. He play his goyf too and passes. I drew a land -2 my liliana targeting my opponent and attack w/ goyf and play a treetop village. He drew and play a land. I drew a card fetch it to liliana +1 activated the treetop and attack w/ goyf and treetop he scooped.

Game 2, on this game both shaman on the opposite side of the table doesnt stay long they been met by our bolts and i drew several lands and suddenly he hard cast a lingering souls still i drew several lands holding a bunch of lands while he do beatdown via souls and flashes back to produce token again. But this time i drew bob and play it. He attacks w/ 4 souls i decayed one of the souls taking 3 and i'm down to 4. If i flip BBE i'm dead, if pulse i can survive 1 turn but i flipped land and drew land :laugh: i scooped.

Game 3 i kept my 6 and he kept his 5, IOK his hand on my first turn grab his liliana and passes. He play marsh flats and passes. On my turn i play shaman and met by bolt EOT and i passes. He play his bob and passes but met by my bolt. I play my bob and it sticks. He play ravine and passes. Bob flips BBE and drew a card, i cast BBE cascade to goyf, BBE attacks and i play my treetop and passes.
Nothing on his side and passes. Bob flips for a finks and drew a baloth, cast the baloth and attacks w/ BBE and goyf and passes. He drew a card a concede, he shows his hand w/ handfull of lands.

After the tourney, to sum it all spreading seas hurts alot decreasing my chance of winning against them wasting my decay for it instead for his creatures and my spirit jund opponent suggested back to nature to hand those seas esp when many seas are enchanted our lands. How about you guys? do you experience this issue? thanks!


With the amount of fetches you run, Shaman should get your through rough mana patches. There's also something to be said about not being the aggro deck in the fish matchup. Let them come to you, which sometimes includes slow rolling your fetches and grabbing basics at first.

[HorseshoeCrab]

So Jund with Thundermaw Hellkites and Lotus Cobras won the GP last weekend. 2 Dark Confidants were cut for Cobras, and while I think that's blasphemy, I'm also not holding a Grand Prix trophy! Vanilla Spirit Jund also had a lot of showings in the top standings.

What do you guys think about Lotus Cobra? I kind of like him as a 2-of, although I'm not so sure about cutting Bob. I think it would be wise to trim off two Lingering Souls or 1 Deathrite Shaman and 1 Souls, anything really instead of Confidant. I've also been testing Junk for the last several weeks and in that deck I could see a variant that uses Cobra to ramp out quick Baneslayer Angels like Mythic used to do in Standard.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Bob isn't as good when you have 5 drops in the deck. Jund is extremely greedy, but that's just careless.

[DragoFireheart]

What do we added now that Bloodbraid Elf got banned? Garruk? Some other planeswalker?

[Lord Seth]

What do we added now that Bloodbraid Elf got banned? Garruk? Some other planeswalker?Huntmaster of the Fells is the suggestion I see the most.

Alternatively, switch to Junk/BUG.

[Mr. Safety]

Is anybody looking at Theros for additions to Jund? I am personally looking closely, and playtesting, Reaper of the Wilds. It has incremental advantage going for it as well as having a super impressive body. I'm testing it at the top of my curve with maindeck Kitchen Finks (full set) to offset Bobs flipping Reaper and the maindeck Thoughtseizes.

[Mr. Safety]

I've been testing Reaper, and it's the real deal. I think it makes a better maindeck 4-mana threat than Huntmaster. The 5 toughness is huge, outclassing Loxodon Smiter and even Tarmogoyf once Deathrite Shaman or Scavenging Ooze get rolling. Below is my current list for testing.

Reaper Jund

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Kitchen Finks
4x Reaper of the Wilds
3x Tarmogoyf

3x Thoughtseize
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Burst Lightning
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Liliana of the Veil

4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Arid Mesa
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Stomping Ground
2x Blood Crypt
1x Dragonskull Summit
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Treetop Village
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Swamp

Sideboard (in progress):

3x Surgical Extraction
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Pithing Needle
4x Destructive Revelry
1x Ghost Quarter
3x (open slot)


I was playing Grim Lavamancer maindeck, which was working ok in most instances. He is a repeatable removal engine that is really, really good. However, he generally fights with Deathrite Shaman (who also provides reach) and Tarmogyf. It isn't insurmountable, but his real value is against tribal/creature heavy matchups. He really beats on Thalia & Co. (modern D & T), merfolk, and elves. Pillar of Flame maindeck is to fight early combo pieces from Pod decks along with the occasional Kitchen Finks. Burst Lightning could likely be 2 more copies of Pillar, but I like the flexibility for bigger stuff while still being solid early. It's also a Fireball for 4 once I hit five mana, making it a better late game topdeck than Pillar.

I've been testing other options as well, such as Garruk Relentless and Burning-Tree Emissary, but none of the other options I've tested have been as good as Reaper of the Wilds. It's got a bunch of value in a deck that packs a high count of removal, and if there's a deck that plays a lot of removal its Jund. Reaper and Bob love working together to smooth out draws, too. Once I untap with Reaper, he never dies to spot removal, period. Blanking Path is pretty significant in my eyes. Yes, wipers are played in Modern but mostly in the form of Pyroclasm or Firespout. The occasional sideboarded Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God shows up, but it's rare. Reaper is also out of Abrupt Decay and Bolt range...this is incredibly important, especially when comparing it to Huntmaster.

The 3 open slots in the sideboard could be many different things, metagame dependant. I think these are good options and will likely do some mix of these:

4th Thoughtseize
Duress
Blightning
Garruk Relentless
4th Surgical Extraction
Sowing Salt
Pyroclasm
Sword of Fire and Ice/Feast and Famine/Light and Shadow
Life from the Loam

[HammafistRoob]

Seems good, but you're missing Scooze? Scooze and Shaman help you regain your life, so I don't think Finks is needed. You can probably go down to 3 Gorgons and be fine as well, putting in the 4th Thoughtseize.

Have you tried Magma Jet instead of the other 2damage burn? It seems good in theory and I would definitely at least try it. I also think Pulse should be more than a 1-of in Modern since planeswalkers play a pretty big roll. I would try something like:

//LANDS-22
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Arid Mesa
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Grounds
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Woodland Cemetery
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest

//CREATURES-17
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Reaper of the Wilds

//'WALKERS-4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra, Pyromaster

//SPELLS-17
4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Magma Jet
2 Maelstrom Pulse

[Phoenix Ignition]

I have to agree with Scooze sentiment. I bumped mine up from 2 to 3 maindeck right now since it's just so good against most decks.

Mirror match? If you can keep him on the table, you win. You can also shrink their goyfs or counter their DRS activations. Against random combo decks, it's way better than 80% of your deck, since it stops UR storm shenanigans, and also the reanimate mumbo jumbo that a decent amount of decks are trying. Even against U Tron you can stop their Academy Ruins, so he's better than most creatures.

I'll have to try out Reaper, but I don't think I've found a need for a 4 drop creature. If I did I would imagine that Huntmaster would work pretty well there, but we'll see.

On a side note, you guys really need to run Chandra, Pyromaster. It's so damn good, even though you'd never use the ultimate.

[Mr. Safety]

Great feedback! I was debating Magma Jet, but I chose the other options for a couple of simple reasons: mana cost, both for doubling up and to minimize damage from Bobs, and also Pillar of Flame does work against Kitchen Finks.

My sense from Reaper so far:

1) It's out of range of Abrupt Decay, Lightning Bolt, and Lightning Helix.
2) Once six mana is achieved, or if I untap with it, it lives. Period. That kind of resiliency is similar to Thrun but with a better ability on the top side (scry 1 has been really good so far, so much stuff dies.)
3) A 4/5 can tustle with any of the other groundpounders in the format, including outclassing Tarmogoyf on occasion with the help of Deathrite Shaman.

I definately need the Scoozes, I agree on that. I don't own any ATM, but it will be a high priority (already has been, but it's been hard to trade for and funds are low, know what I'm sayin'?) I also don't have the 4th Goyf, which is fine with me. The graveyard interaction in the format, including from this very deck, makes him less ideal. Three seems fine.

Proposed list with changes:

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Kitchen Finks
3x Reaper of the Wilds

4x Thoughtseize
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Magma Jet
3x Liliana of the Veil

23x Lands


Pillar can become a sideboard card, or just make way for Magma Jet honestly. I like the scry factor with Bobs for sure, it sets up incremental advantage. That's really why I liked Reaper, the scry works so well with Bob and the hexproof allows for some inevitability. I like the 2nd Pulse as well, it makes my reliance on Pithing Needle out of the sideboard a little less risky.

Regarding Chandra: I've played against her with my list several times online (MWS) and I have to admit, I'm not impressed. That one-of slot seems terrible. I'd rather play Garruk Relentless as a 1-of, and honestly, I don't want to do that either. She might become correct, but right now I'm not sold.

Regarding Huntmaster: when flipped dies to Abrupt Decay, when unflipped dies to Lightning Bolt. When it comes to winning attrition wars it's resilience that counts. Sure Huntmaster is amazing when you're ahead, but you have to hope he sticks too. It's really just not my style. I think Reaper is an upgrade, but I know I'm in the minority.

Regarding Kitchen Finks: what has been the experience of other folks with this card? In my experience it has been the stone-cold nuts, especially in the Jund mirror. When you're both killing yourselves with Thoughtseize, Bob, and greedy mana-bases this seems like the best way to stabilize outside of the white-splashed versions that use Helix. Finks also needs two removal spells to be dealt with, which to me seems like the type of resilience Jund really needs. Just my thoughts, would love to hear feedback from others.

[HammafistRoob]

I definately need the Scoozes, I agree on that. I don't own any ATM, but it will be a high priority (already has been, but it's been hard to trade for and funds are low, know what I'm sayin'?)
Yeah dude, I play mono red sligh of which I own about none of, good friends are good lol.

I don't play Jund so I'm working off theory skills honestly.

You can't really judge Chandra because she was crap against you. She only kills Bob in your list and your playing tons of beef, Pulse, plus a nice burn package. Against control/midrange where the ping ability is pointless you want to land her as late as possible, preferably when the board is stalled/empty and you're in a topdeck war. You then gain crazy card advantage and win with ease from there out. I do agree that one is probably a bad idea so two is probably correct, just couldn't figure out how to squeeze another in.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Regarding Chandra: I've played against her with my list several times online (MWS) and I have to admit, I'm not impressed. That one-of slot seems terrible. I'd rather play Garruk Relentless as a 1-of, and honestly, I don't want to do that either. She might become correct, but right now I'm not sold.
This isn't usually a good way to judge cards, especially based on playing on MWS (people are terrible...). It's basically a draw per turn unless they have some juicy creatures you want to kill (Dark Confidant, Young Pyromancer, Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, most of Affinity, Delver of Secrets, Aven Mindcensor, Thalia, and many other less played cards), OR gets a blocker out of the way (shuts off Wurmcoil from blocking). In a deck full of incremental advantage, your 4 drop should be doing more than being a 5 turn clock.



Regarding Huntmaster: when flipped dies to Abrupt Decay, when unflipped dies to Lightning Bolt. When it comes to winning attrition wars it's resilience that counts. Sure Huntmaster is amazing when you're ahead, but you have to hope he sticks too. It's really just not my style. I think Reaper is an upgrade, but I know I'm in the minority.
If you're playing against a deck that wins by aggro + lightning bolts, I'd much rather they spend a bolt on my huntmaster when I already get 2 life and a token. With Reaper they could just go straight to your face at that point. Abrupt Decay kills it, but the flip is pretty good and most likely takes out one of their smaller creatures since decks with Abrupt Decay play DRS and other stuff to kill.

And don't forget that Liliana is a 4-of, Huntmaster protects himself.

Against something like UR Storm, Huntmaster is a much faster clock. A minimum of 4 per turn, with the ability to easily pump it up to 8. Against decks like Affinity, you'd rather have Huntmaster than the ground dwelling Reaper


Regarding Kitchen Finks: what has been the experience of other folks with this card? In my experience it has been the stone-cold nuts, especially in the Jund mirror. When you're both killing yourselves with Thoughtseize, Bob, and greedy mana-bases this seems like the best way to stabilize outside of the white-splashed versions that use Helix. Finks also needs two removal spells to be dealt with, which to me seems like the type of resilience Jund really needs. Just my thoughts, would love to hear feedback from others.
Kitchen finks is fine but I think you're giving him too much credit. Scooze + DRS are both very common in the mirror match, so you'll often only get 1 use out of him. He's only 3 power so doesn't really make you aggressive, and often is just going to be used as a chump blocker. Both Goyf and Scooze are better, but he isn't terrible. My problem is he's only stellar against Red, whereas against stuff like combo/tron/other non-interactive decks he doesn't do much.

[Mr. Safety]

EDIT: List for Sunday.


4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Reaper of the Wilds

4x Thoughtseize
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Magma Jet
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Liliana of the Veil

4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Arid Mesa
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Blood Crypt
2x Stomping Ground
2x Woodland Cemetery
1x Dragonskull Summit
2x Treetop Village
1x Raging Ravine
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Swamp
1x Forest

Sideboard
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Pithing Needle
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Terminate
4x Destructive Revelry
1x Ghost Quarter

[Phoenix Ignition]

If you have a 4th Goyf I'd run that over Reaper. Otherwise I'd probably run 3xAncient Grudge in the side over Destructive Revelry, and also Golgari Charms have been pretty great for me against random stuff (lots of Young Pyromancer and Boggle deck going around at least on MTGO). Up to you though, if you know your metagame yours might be better.

[Mr. Safety]

I edited my above list, a buddy of mine says to me 'sure I have Scavenging Oozes, want to use them Sunday?' Ahem, YES.

Beyond that, Reaper has become a 2-of because I still like it better than Huntmaster and I'm still on the Kitchen Finks. I also like what Magma Jet has been doing to smooth out my draws with Bob.

Anyways, the list above is what I'm taking Sunday.

[HammafistRoob]

How has Pillar of Flame been for you? I don't like that it's sorcery speed, and the exiling doesn't seems relevant since we have Shaman and Scooze. I would take them out for the 3rd Jet and 3rd Decay, seems good otherwise.

[Mr. Safety]

I got the Pillar idea from Reid Duke, who played a singleton. The idea is that I want more early game removal for opposing Deathrites/Bobs/etc. Yes it's a sorcery but I still feel it brings the most to the table for one red, save Bolt. Exiling is important against early Pod creatures. I know I'll see Pod decks, it's a tier player, and I feel Pillar is one way to attack them in the maindeck. The additional cheap burn helps with reach as well. Magma Jet helps smooth out draws while also providing more reach and early removal.

The sideboard is changing slightly, here is the updated sideboard:

2x Shatterstorm
2x Destructive Revelry
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Pithing Needle
1x Terminate
1x Garruk Relentless
2x Grim Lavamancer
1x Ghost Quarter


I think having a pair of Revelry's for oddball enchantments/sorceries is good (especially Leyline of Sanctity) but Shatterstorm is much better in the actual Affinity matchup. A 2/2 split feels good.

@Phoenix Ignition: my metagame will consist of Affinity, Pod, Twin, Merfolk, Jund, UWR Mid-Range/Control (both variants), B/G Good Stuff/Redless Jund, G/R Tron, Mono-Red Sligh/Burn, Elves, and whatever rogue decks folks bring. It will have a solid 40-50 players in the event, so I expect to see plenty of tier decks.

[Mr. Safety]

Took 4th at the 1K, won $100 for my trouble. The changes I made last minute were to drop the Pillars and subbed in the 3rd Kitchen Finks and 1x Burst Lightning, and dropped 1x Grim Lavamancer in the board for 1x Anger of the Gods. I literally only lost 2 games the whole day, both to Merfolk. I only mulliganed twice all day too (can you guess which games they were?)

1) Magma Jet was incredible, bumping up to 3 copies.
2) Kitchen Finks were good, but I don't need 3. Tweaking my deck to include Huntmaster x2
3) Reaper was really, really good. The repeatable scry in the mid-late game is really solid. I think 2 is right with the other 2 slots dedicated to Huntmaster at 4 mana.

I faced, in order:

Round 1 - Mono-U Merfolk (2-0)
Round 2 - Mono-Black Discard/the Rack/Shrieking Affliction (2-0)
Round 3 - BRW Scepter-Silence (lots of PW's) (2-0)

At this point there were exactly 4 of use at 3-0, so we decided collectively to double-draw into top 8.

Round 4 - Boros Sligh (we played for fun, I went 2-0, Kitchen Finks FTW)
Round 5 - Mono-U Merfolk (different and better player, but we traded instead of playing it out.)

Top 8 Round 1 - Scepter deck again, 2-0
Quarterfinals - Merfolk deck from round 5, I go 0-2. The deck drew like shit after giving me nothing but the stone-cold nuts all day. Oh well, variance for the loss.

The top 2 ended up being the Boros Sligh deck and Merfolk, the remaining deck in the top 4 being Splinter Twin.

Fun day, did well, bummed I drew so poorly against Merfolk round 5 when I decimated them round 1...

[Borealis]

Bringing this to a small GPT in Italy this Sunday. Wish me luck. Hoping to get some byes for GP Prague (and 2 more Liliana:tongue:)

3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
2 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Forest
2 Swamp

3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Blightning
1 Maelstrom Pulse

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Relentless

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells

Sideboard:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Spellskite
1 Slaughter Games
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Batterskull
1 Olivia Voldaren
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Sowing Salt
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Shatterstorm



2 Blightning because I only own 2 Liliana. Otherwise, Pretty much solid on this build, though I'm a bit torn about not being able to fully test Thundermaw Hellkite or Chandra, Pyromaster. Thoughts on those two cards? Also, I've put so many games away with Huntmaster of the Fells (mostly against aggro, but also against control), that card is still one of my all-stars. All the other options I've looked at (Garruk, Olivia, Chandra, Thundermaw, Thragtusk, Batterskull, etc.) just don't seem as versatile as Huntmaster. I'm never sad to play one. That said, the reason I have 1-of Garruk Relentless in there is because without 4 Liliana, I'm a little short on resiliency to Supreme Verdict. And Garruk Relentless is just brutal after a sweeper. I've lost games hard to Garruk, and I've seen what he can do, and I want to do it to. He's another spicy card that people forget exists from time to time. And I'm packing Wolf Tokens in the board.

Yup, time to take a midrange trip to value town.

[Mr. Safety]

I play a ghost quarter maindeck and it has paid off.

[Borealis]

I play a ghost quarter maindeck and it has paid off.

Why exactly? I can't see why we would want a colorless land, and if we did I could only see tectonic edge being worth messing with the mana. Even then, jund is far too mana greedy in my opinion to make it worth the sacrifice.



As for the GPT, I missed top 8 but had some good rounds. Merfolk beat me twice, as did one Affinity deck on a mull to 5 (fucking RIP!). Beat jund mirror, GR StormVine, and Scapeshift. Need to tighten up my game for the next GPT and for Prague! Deck is going to have a full set of Liliana and a Damnation in the board for next time!

[Mr. Safety]

Tron lands, collonade, treetops, township, mutavault, and tar pit come to mind. Jund also plays 4 mana dorks. I've never had trouble with 23 lands one of them ghost quarter.

[Borealis]

Yeah, I mean there are obviously plenty of targets for Ghost Quarter, but I don't think it's very good in Jund. We have SB cards that are much more flexible if we really want to kill lands (such as Fulminator Mage), and against nearly everything but Inkmoth/Blinkmoth Nexus, we really don't want to lose the card. Against Tron, they are still going to be ahead on mana most of the time, and they can usually just get another Tron land while you recover from the Tempo loss. Against most manlands, Tec Edge would just be better, as it's not very often the opponent will be able to activate without 4 lands in play. Basically, giving your opponent another land just to clear away a manland or Tron piece (while losing your own land) just isn't worth it, especially when we have access to plenty of spells that do the same thing without the loss of a card.

Also, while we do have the occasional mana dork, I still find that Jund is just too mana hungry to play with a possible blank land in my deck. Sometimes it might be clutch, but I feel like a lot of times you will just be playing with 23 lands and a bad Path to Exile in your deck.

GQ is sweet in decks like G/W hatebears, with the Arbiters, or in something like Boros, which doesn't care about the loss of a land and can often use the landfall trigger for good. But if you're really wanting to hate on Manlands and whatnot, I'd just run a singleton Tec Edge instead.

[Mr. Safety]

I don't play Fulminator in my sideboard, I play Sowing Salt (along with another Ghost Quarter.) GQ + Surgical Extraction is much cheaper and can hamstring a Tron player really well. Sowing Salt does the same thing but a little higher on the curve. Sowing Salt also has the added benefit of killing Scapeshift, something Fulminator Mage cannot do. Slow it down, yes, but it won't be a clear hoser.

[Mr. Safety]

Has anyone toyed around with the white splashed (Lingering Souls) version of this? I put together a list that I like and it may be an option for me.

Rough list:

4x Deathrite
4x Bob
3x Goyf
1x Scooze
3x Tidehollow Sculler

4x Thoughtseize
4x Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Path
3x Lingering Souls
3x Liliana
2x Ajani Vengeant
2x Maelstrom Pulse

Sideboard under construction...

[Mr. Safety]

So here is my list for the GPT on the 25th. I would love some feedback, especially for the sideboard. I know I will see a healthy amount of Affinity and Pod and I have boarded accordingly. Living End seems to have made a presence as well, which makes Grafdigger's Cage a nice option.

Here's the list, I'm pretty happy with how it has played out.

Creatures - 15
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
3x Tarmogoyf
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tidehollow Sculler

Sorceries - 9
3x Thoughtseize
2x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Lingering Souls

Instants - 9
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Path to Exile

Planeswalkers - 5
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Ajani Vengeant

Lands - 23
2x Raging Ravine
1x Treetop Village
4x Arid Mesa
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Marsh Flats
2x Blood Crypt
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Godless Shrine
1x Temple Garden
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Woodland Cemetery

Sideboard

2x Pithing Needle
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Shatterstorm
2x Sowing Salt
1x Firespout
1x Wear/Ter
2x Obstinate Baloth


Any and all suggestions appreciated. I know folks say the white version has a harder time against combo...I think with Sculler that isn't the case. I like Sculler more than Inquisition of Kozilek and I really like the full set of Lingering Souls to protect the PW's. The 3/1 split of Goyf/Ooze is simple practicality as I don't have the 4th Goyf. Ooze has plenty of value against many different decks though, so it isn't really a drop in power level but just a slightly slower clock. The lifegain isn't shabby either, I just realize that most white Jund lists don't bother with Ooze.

EDIT: Yes I know that the maindeck is 61 cards.

[nodahero]

I have had terrible luck running the Cage and any permanent grave hate actually. So far I have had FAR better results with Rakdos Charm. The card tears Living End a new asshole and it also is good at stealing wins from Splinter Twin players.

[Mr. Safety]

Cage does double duty by being good against pod. Most, if not all, white kind lists I've seen play 2 in the board.

Also, Schuller has proven to be underwhelming.

-3 sculler
+1 thoughtseize
+1 scavenging ooze
+1 abrupt decay

[nodahero]

Against Living End, all they have to do is wait for an Ingot Chewer or a Beast Within and then your cage does nothing. At least with a Crypt you can kick them back a peg or two.

[Mr. Safety]

Fair enough, I can see how they would work around it. Maybe I need to squeeze in a Tormod's Crypt.

[YamiJoey]

Against Living End, all they have to do is wait for an Ingot Chewer or a Beast Within and then your cage does nothing. At least with a Crypt you can kick them back a peg or two.

Did you said 'Wait' against a deck that has 2-mana 4/5's, and the ability to just discard all of their Cascade Spells?

Sure. That's totally fine.

[nodahero]

what? That makes no sense. I said nothing of the sort. I was stating the Cage is not efficient enough.

[YamiJoey]

We have the ability to put them on a 4/5-turn clock from T2 with our main hate card out. On the play that requires them to god draw us, on the draw it requires us to have 0 interaction. They have to bring the game to us here. We even have a removal package that can answer them 'comboing out' or whatever, and have dumped things to Lili to continue the beats post-Living End.

The deck is a complete write-off. I would not dedicate slots to it in any way. It gets better post board from things that are in here for other MU's.

[Mr. Safety]

We have the ability to put them on a 4/5-turn clock from T2 with our main hate card out. On the play that requires them to god draw us, on the draw it requires us to have 0 interaction. They have to bring the game to us here. We even have a removal package that can answer them 'comboing out' or whatever, and have dumped things to Lili to continue the beats post-Living End.

The deck is a complete write-off. I would not dedicate slots to it in any way. It gets better post board from things that are in here for other MU's.

I am boarding a pair of Rakdos Charm for the twin matchup. It also has relevance against living end and affinity.

[Lord Seth]

I feel I should point out that Grafdigger's Cage doesn't stop Living End. Living End exiles the creatures from graveyards, then puts them onto the battlefield from exile; because they're entering from exile rather than the graveyard, Grafdigger's Cage has no effect. They don't need to use Ingot Chewers or Beast Withins on the Cage because it doesn't stop their combo to begin with.

[YamiJoey]

They can't Cascade.

[Lord Seth]

They can't Cascade.
Yes they can. Read the description of Cascade:
"When you cast this spell, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card that costs less. You may cast it without paying its mana cost. Put the exiled cards on the bottom in a random order."

Emphasis mine. Like with Living End, the card is moved to the exile zone, which is where it's cast from if they opt to cast it. As it's cast from exile and not the library, Grafdigger's Cage has no effect.

[nodahero]

Thanks Lord Seth.

[Mr. Safety]

Cage isn't for Living End (something I might see, might not) it's for Pod. I am boarding a pair of Rakdos Charm for the Splinter Twin matchup, but it also has value against Living End and Affinity.

Current sideboard:

2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Rakdos Charm
1x Path to Exile
1x Wear//Tear
2x Firespout
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Shatterstorm
2x Sowing Salt
2x Obstinate Baloth

[YamiJoey]

Yes they can. Read the description of Cascade:
"When you cast this spell, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card that costs less. You may cast it without paying its mana cost. Put the exiled cards on the bottom in a random order."

Emphasis mine. Like with Living End, the card is moved to the exile zone, which is where it's cast from if they opt to cast it. As it's cast from exile and not the library, Grafdigger's Cage has no effect.

Damn I was cluthing at straws and failed.

Whatever. I still don't care about the deck .

[Borealis]

Yeah, Cage does nothing against Living End unfortunately. I've also not been a fan of it against Pod lately, not that I play against that matchup often, but it just doesn't seem that proactive. Yes, it stops their combo and persist triggers, but I'd rather fight them on that front with the 4 Deathrites and 2 Scavenging Ooze main. Drawing Cage after they've had Pod or Persist triggers going off is just terrible, and there are also games (typically involving stuff like Voice/Angels/Gavony Township) where Cage is just useless.

I've also taken to running a split of Charms in my sideboard instead. 2 Jund Charm helps against a lot of decks, including Affinity and Living End, but also cleans up against a ton of other Aggro decks, and can even be reasonable against the Mirror, Pod, and some UWR variants. 1 Rakdos Charm is a nod to Splinter Twin, and also comes in against Pod sometimes (to hit their Pod primarily, while still being slightly flexible on the modes). Rakdos is also potentially decent against UWR, but obviously mostly comes in against Twin and Affinity.

I wouldn't call Living End a write-off though. Pretty sure we're a dog in the matchup, especially without SB cards. But if it's not that popular, it's probably not worth worrying about it too much.

I'm still not running the 4-color version, but I do intend to test it out soon. Still, i'm pretty sure I'll just end up back on the 3-color plan. For reference, here's my list, though currently I'm still missing 2 Lilianas:

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Raging Ravine
3 Treetop Village
1 Forest
2 Swamp

4 Deathrite
4 Bob
4 Goyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Olivia Voldaren

4 Liliana
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Sideboard
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Jund Charm
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Shatterstorm
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Sowing Salt
1 Thoughtseize

This is pretty close to what I ran at GP Prague, with a few minor changes I'm testing out. Speaking of GP Prague, I went 5-4 on Day 1, so clearly missed Day 2 and the money, but I still had a good time. My losses were to 3 Affinity decks and a 4-Color Allies build (basically the same matchup as Affinity), playing against 4 Affinity decks total. It was a bit of bad beats, as I felt I played well, but I'll be back again to the GP scene this summer in Boston.

[Mr. Safety]

What are folks replacing Deathrite Shaman with? Grim Lavamancer? More discard/burn/spells?

[nodahero]

I think a more important question then what are they replacing Shaman with is how are they adjusting the curve. Lilly isn't nearly the threat she was without a chumper (if needed) and an accelerant in one neat package.

[rei4u2005]

I Think the most viable replacement for DRS is Kitchen Finks

[Timber]

Is Birds of Paradise a no-go? Obviously 0/1 sucks compared to 1/2, but flying may be more relevant is Fae is a deck.

[nodahero]

The lack of any offensive power makes drawing birds post turn 2 a terrible deal. I think simply upping the land count in the Tec Edge/Raging Ravine department is the way to go.

[YamiJoey]

Is Birds of Paradise a no-go? Obviously 0/1 sucks compared to 1/2, but flying may be more relevant is Fae is a deck.

You're swapping out a 1-mana Planeswalker for a BoP. Think about that for a second.

It also means you're taking 6 before cating a Lili, as opposed to the 4 DRS asked for, making her worse against aggressive decks such as Fae.

[Phoenix Ignition]

You're swapping out a 1-mana Planeswalker for a BoP. Think about that for a second.

It also means you're taking 6 before cating a Lili, as opposed to the 4 DRS asked for, making her worse against aggressive decks such as Fae.

Huh? Birds gives you any mana color. So did DRS. How does playing birds into Liliana make you take more damage?

[Timber]

The lack of any offensive power makes drawing birds post turn 2 a terrible deal. I think simply upping the land count in the Tec Edge/Raging Ravine department is the way to go.

Makes sense. Birds has almost zero usefulness after getting out turn 2 Liliana.

However, with Zoo coming back, is it even worth trying to get a turn 2 Liliana? On the draw she's just a 1BB Cruel Edict.

[nodahero]

Against Zoo I am not really sure honestly. I suppose its really a question of the build.

Realistically Zoo will burn your 1 drop if able thus pushing Lilly back to turn 3 although, this also allows you turn 2 for removal as needed.

It may still be good enough. Its hard to say in reality. I dislike the deck alot more without the value of DRS. I'm currently on the RWU control or twin combo.

[YamiJoey]

Huh? Birds gives you any mana color. So did DRS. How does playing birds into Liliana make you take more damage?

DRS can be cast from Basic Swamp, Blood Crypt, or Blackcleave Cliffs. You MUST fetch Green for BoP. That is a massive difference.

[Lord Seth]

Is Birds of Paradise a no-go? Obviously 0/1 sucks compared to 1/2, but flying may be more relevant is Fae is a deck.I see a lot of people bring up this "how about Birds of Paradise instead of Deathrite Shaman?" But that's missing why Deathrite Shaman was good. Deathrite Shaman wasn't good because it was a mana dork. It was good because it was a mana dork that could be cast for Green or Black and was a 1/2 body and hated on graveyards and had continued utility throughout the entire game. It was all of those things together that made Deathrite Shaman. Birds of Paradise is just a mana dork.

If you want proof of this in practice, consider the fact that even before Deathrite Shaman came along, Jund wasn't playing Birds of Paradise.

[nodahero]

That is a perfect explanation Seth.