[Deck] Karn Tron

[Fizzeler]

Karn Tron a deck that uses cantrip artifacts land tutor effects and board wipes to cast big scary monsters like Wurmcoil Engine, Emrakul, and Myr Battlesphere as well as Karn Liberated

My current build:
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Myr Battlesphere
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Karn Liberated
3 Explore
4 Pyroclasm
1 All Is Dust
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Prophetic Prism
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sundering Titan
1 Staff of Nin
4 Expedition Map
2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Plains
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Vandalblast
SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Tectonic Edge
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb

I like Sundering Titan a lot, in Modern this guy is closer to a one sided Armageddon and he really pushes certain match-ups like Jund, Tribal Jund, and Pod in your favor

[DragoFireheart]

Needs more Terastodon.

[264505]

Your RiP in the board is kind of a nombo with the Chromatic Stars.

[Lord Seth]

Your RiP in the board is kind of a nombo with the Chromatic Stars.How? (EDIT: Never mind, I see now)

Though personally I think Relic of Progenitus is a lot better (and probably worth maindecking 4) because of the cantrip.

I am puzzled by the 1x Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard, though. The deck has difficulty hardcasting it, so you should either go all in and play 4x to maximize chances of drawing it in your initial hand, or just not play it at all.

[Fizzeler]

How? (EDIT: Never mind, I see now)

Though personally I think Relic of Progenitus is a lot better (and probably worth maindecking 4) because of the cantrip.

I am puzzled by the 1x Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard, though. The deck has difficulty hardcasting it, so you should either go all in and play 4x to maximize chances of drawing it in your initial hand, or just not play it at all.

It was a rough board of random cards I had lying around, the Leyline is likely just becoming Rule Of Law

Yes Star has anti-synergy with RiP, what RiP does do is reduce Jund's clock and make Eggs and Storm a lot easier

[Lord Seth]

Yes Star has anti-synergy with RiP, what RiP does do is reduce Jund's clock and make Eggs and Storm a lot easierThing is...Relic of Progenitus can do that, doesn't have anti-synergy with other cards in your deck, and doesn't require a Chromatic Sphere/Star to be cast. I'd definitely replace those RIPs with more Relics.

Indeed, Relic of Progenitus is never a dead card (at worst you can use it as a cantrip), which is why so many builds are playing 4 of them maindeck.

[Fizzeler]

Thing is...Relic of Progenitus can do that, doesn't have anti-synergy with other cards in your deck, and doesn't require a Chromatic Sphere/Star to be cast. I'd definitely replace those RIPs with more Relics.

Indeed, Relic of Progenitus is never a dead card (at worst you can use it as a cantrip), which is why so many builds are playing 4 of them maindeck.

True, I may just do that

Need better tech to battle Spreading Seas though

[Pastorofmuppets]

How do you guys feel about Thespian's Stage from Gatecrash?
I mean, it's slow and all, but it can pay off in longer games.

[bruizar]

True, I may just do that

Need better tech to battle Spreading Seas though

Gruul Turf?

Can't be countered, ramps, fixes mana, can be found with expedition map.

[kombatkiwi]

How do you guys feel about Thespian's Stage from Gatecrash?
I mean, it's slow and all, but it can pay off in longer games.

I wouldn't
It's making your lategame marginally better (lategame is where Tron should not be able to lose ever) and whatever you're cutting for it is going to make your earlygame worse by a more significant amount.

[Phoenix Ignition]

How do you guys feel about Thespian's Stage from Gatecrash?
I mean, it's slow and all, but it can pay off in longer games.

You don't want more of a single Urza, you want all of the Urzas. Adding another land in here that doesn't make colors is not what you want...

[Fizzeler]

You don't want more of a single Urza, you want all of the Urzas. Adding another land in here that doesn't make colors is not what you want...

Indeed

Anyway went 5-2 at a PTQ with Karn Tron, lost to the mirror round 3 and Hive Mind round 1, I admit I boarded wrong vs Hive Mind and should have boarded in Slaughter Games instead of Mindbreak Trap
I beat: Fish, Jace-Doubling Season brew, Storm, Jund, last round the guy just scooped and left played a Scapeshift guy and went 1-1 against him

[MeddlingMageGR]

I have some questions about Karn.
a) How often do you restart the game ?
b) Your main purpose is to exile a permanent per turn? Or restart the game?
c) If your main purpose is to exile 1 permanent, dont you find that this spell is too expensive?
d) Compare him plz with All is Dust. Why 3 Karn and 1 Dust, instead 1 Karn and 3 Dust ?

[Phoenix Ignition]

I have some questions about Karn.
a) How often do you restart the game ?
b) Your main purpose is to exile a permanent per turn? Or restart the game?
c) If your main purpose is to exile 1 permanent, dont you find that this spell is too expensive?
d) Compare him plz with All is Dust. Why 3 Karn and 1 Dust, instead 1 Karn and 3 Dust ?

a) Basically never. If it ever comes down to that point the opponent just scoops
b) Depends on the board state. If they are stuck on lands or have something that you're afraid of, exile permanents. If not, exile cards in hand. +4 is enough to "race" creatures if you get him out early enough.
c) No, exiling the opponent's lands on turn 3 is stupidly good.
d) All is Dust doesn't hit lands or artifacts, and is only good if the opponent has things in play. Karn is good in any situation, as you can either 1. take out their hand, 2. kill their lands, 3. kill their creatures or other threatening cards, or 4. basically win by restarting the game if it ever comes down to it.

[Fizzeler]

Karn is probably your best turn 3 play in the deck he either vindicates every turn or repeatably Raven's Crime

I ultimated a Karn once, but it wasn't with this deck and it was for fun

[Lord Seth]

I have some questions about Karn.
a) How often do you restart the game ?Almost never. Even ignoring the fact an opponent will usually give up before then, there's rarely a real reason to. The only times I'd really restart the game is if either my opponent gained infinite life somehow or were in strong danger of killing me.

b) Your main purpose is to exile a permanent per turn? Or restart the game?The main purpose is to exile permanents, easily. Though you completely overlooked his exiling cards from hands ability. While in some cases that really is just there to keep Karn around so you can continue exiling permanents, a one-sided Liliana of the Veil +1 that's a +4 instead is certainly not a raw deal.


c) If your main purpose is to exile 1 permanent, dont you find that this spell is too expensive?What card would you suggest using instead that has the ability to exile (or at least destroy) any permanent? Vindicate isn't legal in Modern and is quite restrictive in the decks it can be played in. The others are things like Spine of Ish Sah or Ulamog, which cost as much or even more than Karn. The cheapest "get rid of any permanent" card is Beast Within, which has a real drawback, isn't repeatable, can't hurt your opponent's hand, and can't hit some of the things Karn can (e.g. indestructible things). So seriously, the question isn't "is this too expensive" it's "what else would you play"?


d) Compare him plz with All is Dust. Why 3 Karn and 1 Dust, instead 1 Karn and 3 Dust ?All Is Dust can affect lands in only very specific circumstances, does next to nothing against Affinity (or Eggs, for that matter--admittedly, Karn isn't great against Eggs either, but he's better), is useless in the mirror, sits in your hand useless if your opponent doesn't have something in play, and cannot rip your opponent's hand apart.

That's not to say All Is Dust has no place in the deck (some builds run it), but its actual "rival" in the deck isn't Karn, it's Oblivion Stone.

[MeddlingMageGR]

Yeah, agaisnt eggs combo, AiD is useless and Karn is superior, because that deck has colorless permanents and no creatures to attack him. So, he has the upper hand. But generally speaking - most of the times - if I had AiD instead of Karn it would be much better. I dont insist in nothing. I have played both, I use them both, but I got tired to pay 7 mana, exile a permanent, and then being attacked and die.

EDIT

I need some advice for sideboard. I've seen all the decklists at TC decks, and the choices seems to be random.
Is it worth to have some Torpor Orb? Melira, Sylvok Outcast? Firespout? Mindslaver?

[Lord Seth]

Yeah, agaisnt eggs combo, AiD is useless and Karn is superior, because that deck has colorless permanents and no creatures to attack him. So, he has the upper hand. But generally speaking - most of the times - if I had AiD instead of Karn it would be much better. I dont insist in nothing. I have played both, I use them both, but I got tired to pay 7 mana, exile a permanent, and then being attacked and die.I feel like you ignored everything I said. Let's try again.

There is no dichotomy between Karn Liberated and All Is Dust. They serve different purposes in the deck. All Is Dust is a sweeper. Karn Liberated is a card that can grind out victories for you (and unlike All Is Dust, can get rid of lands for you).

The simple fact is, you play Karn Liberated. Period. There's a reason he's the namesake of the deck. He's an amazing card that grinds out victories, wipes out threats on and off the board (including lands!), and even provides a way to still win even if your opponent somehow executed an infinite life combo of some sort. He costs exactly 7 mana, just enough for Urzatron. There is no card that can replace him in the deck. None.

All Is Dust is nowhere as critical in the deck. Part of this is the fact that Pyroclasm is already a good creature sweeper, but unlike with Karn Liberated (which nothing can really replace), there's legitimate competition for the spot of a more global sweeper. Specifically, Oblivion Stone. Oblivion Stone has quite a few legs up on All Is Dust. It's not useless or nearly useless against Affinity and Eggs, it can be used at Instant speed, and you can pay for its sweeper cost (3 mana to cast, 5 mana to sacrifice) over the course of two turns. This also means after casting it you can use it to sweep the board with only 5 mana, which actually is something that can come in handy more often than you might think.

All is Dust does have a few advantages. Its total cost is less (7 rather than 8, meaning you can't use it until turn 4), can be used the turn you assemble Tron, can be reduced to only 5 mana with Eye of Ugin, and leaves your own stuff untouched without having to finagle with fate counters. And while there's a lot of things Oblivion Stone can remove that All is Dust can't, there are also some things All Is Dust can take out that Oblivion Stone can't, such as Dryad Arbor.

On the whole I would say Oblivion Stone is the preferable of the two options, because I feel it has far more versatility. Oblivion Stone also has fewer dead matchups because it's still strong against Affinity and Eggs. And again, the ability to blow it at Instant speed can be spectacular. If you're playing against Splinter Twin, All Is Dust is practically a dead card, whereas Oblivion Stone, while on the field, is a major obstacle to their combo because you can use it as soon as they try to pull off the combo. Of course, I do recognize All Is Dust is better in some circumstances, so my current decklist plays 3x Oblivion Stone maindeck and 1x All Is Dust in the sideboard.

So the issue isn't Karn Liberated vs. All Is Dust. Not playing Karn Liberated in order to play All Is Dust is just plain a bad idea; All Is Dust is something you play in addition to Karn Liberated, not instead of. You're right you do want a board sweeper because Karn Liberated can only take out one card at a time, but that's why you play All Is Dust (or Oblivion Stone) in addition to Karn Liberated.

I hope I explained things better this time.

[poopiedonut]

In order to play against eggs I use the following cards in my sideboard:
1 Mindslaver
3 Root Maze
3 Tunnel Ignus

Those are (of course) in addition to other cards, but Rest in Peace was already mentioned and instead of sideboarding a white source, I just run a single Temple garden in my mainboard in place of one of two forests I used to run.

The Root Maze choice should be obvious, this is a one-drop spell that can buy you many extra turns if your opponent doesn't cast Wipe Away.
Tunnel Ignus is there because of the fact that eggs players will keep trying to ramp with fetch lands or ghost quarters as they combo. The Tunnel Ignus punishes them for it again if they don't cast a Wipe Away.
Mindslaver is pretty much just for kicks with me. If you crack it at the right time and know how to play eggs you can kill them with their own deck (I've done it before and its pretty funny. I'll agree, this is a terrible strategy for heated events, but I'm just having fun with this one.)

I feel like what really needs to happen in the eggs matchup is that you need to get two anti-combo pieces on the board as soon as possible. The only thing I've had happen to me is a Wipe Away bouncing my winning strategy. However, if there are two things on the field they need to worry about, the single Wipe Away won't make a difference.

Another thing I've been thinking about testing in the sideboard is Extirpates. I'm going to think long and hard on this and do a lot of testing against a friend of mine, but the main attraction to this over surgical extraction is that your opponent can't respond to it except by adding mana to their mana pool. Not saying this is going to be what wins it for us, but I'm going to give it a shot.

[SecondSunrise]

Hey Guys, just felt like chipping in on my modern pet deck:

I generally play a pretty stock MD, with everything as a 4-of besides WC-Engine and Emrakul. While I did play around with things like Mindslaver or Sundering Titan for a while after seeing them in Mtgo Daylies, I think the standard list is superior in general by just giving you the maximum number of each individual card for consistency.

My SB at the moment looks like this:
3x Nature's Claim
3x Slaughter Games
3x Combust
2x Torpor Orb
2x Spellskite
2x Surgical Extraction

So far, this SB has given me pretty good results in my local game store. although the eggs matchup remains bad, most other decks can be beat by the cards above. I have cut a Forest in the main for a Llanowar Wastes to help with the black mana for Games/Extraction.