[Deck] Blue Slaver Tron

[Fizzeler]

This deck has been popping up over MTGO recently in dailies, premier events, and other events
1 Academy Ruins
8 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower

1 Platinum Angel
3 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sundering Titan
4 Treasure Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Condescend
4 Expedition Map
2 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Remand
3 Repeal
1 Spell Burst
3 Talisman of Progress
4 Thirst for Knowledge

Sideboard
3 Dismember
3 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spellskite
2 Trickbind

I have been playing the deck and it plays very control like, the Slaver lock is how you win games most of the time, Spell Burst Lock is great vs Midrange decks like Jund and Geist

Some lists play Steel Hellkite over Angel others have an Eldrazi SB

[(nameless one)]

Whats the Oboro for?

[Fizzeler]

Whats the Oboro for?

Dodge Boom//Bust and can dodge Tec Edge/filter blue mana

[Intet's Attendant]

I've been thinking - would Mind Stone be better than Talisman? You can sacrifice it once you've reached assembled the Tron if you need extra cards

Also, would Trading Post be a possibility?

[Viridia]

Just played to a 2-2 (1-2 + bye) finish in a MTGO Daily Event, after playing in the tournament practice and 2man queue for abit. Not too impressive, but the deck feels fairly solid.

My list:

12 Urzatron
1 Academy Ruins
1 Swamp
8 Island

4 Expedition Map
3 Talisman of Dominance
4 Remand
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Condescend
4 Repeal
1 Spell Burst
2 Mindslaver

4 Treasure Mage
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan


SB:

4 Dismember
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Spell Pierce
3 Duress


Fairly standard mainboard, the sideboard was rubbish, but i didnt have enough time to make a proper sideboard before the event started.

Lost against Rbw Burn 1-2
Won in the mirror 2-0
Lost against RGu ScapeShift 1-2
Bye


So far the things i've noticed most is that the deck isnt super consistent in getting the Urzatron together, which means you're often stuck in a hand with mediocre/uncastable cards.
Not sure what to change around yet, but i'll try and figure something out after the weekend (GPT Legacy tomorrow :D)

[Bignasty197]

I like the list in the OP but with a few minor changes: -1 Oboro, +1 Buried Ruin, -1 Treasure Mage, +1 Crucible of Worlds. If your Academy Ruins gets killed, you lose the ability to Slaver lock them. Adding Crucible and Buried Ruin gives you a main deck out to Tec Edge or Boom/Bust on your lock piece. Oboro doesn't seem relevant enough to be played ahead of Buried Ruin, in my opinion. The last Treasure Mage is an easy cut for Crucible without changing the curve. I'll be playing this deck at a PTQ this weekend with those changes and an updated sideboard.

[Fizzeler]

Treasure Mage is one of the core components to the deck (Urboro is okay), against aggro he is a 2/2, midrange 2/2 tutor, control 2/2 mindslaver, combo 2/2 mindslaver, that said Thirst does so much work I can see wanting to cut him for Crucible (which makes Thirst even better)

I have thought on Buried Ruin, but if you want another recursion engine run Trading Post (it is pretty insane in this deck), anyway good luck let me know how the changes work for you

[Anarky87]

Played Blue Tron in our...I guess Saturday Night Magic Modern tournament tonight
and went undefeated to first. Granted it was only 8 people. This list was stock,
save for 9 Islands, because Oboro didn't come in time and I played a Metamorph
MD because I couldn't get ahold of an Oblivion Stone. SB was:

4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
9 Islands
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruin

3 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Treasure Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Phyrexian Metamorph (Couldn't get an Oblivion Stone)

4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Condescend
4 Remand
4 Expedition Map
3 Repeal
3 Talisman of Dominance
2 Mindslaver
1 Spell Burst

SB
4 Dismember
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spell Pierce
2 Squelch
2 Curse of Chains (Couldn't get Spellskite)
2 Spreading Seas
1 Wurmcoil Engine

R1: BG...something.
All I saw were 2 Llanowar Elves and a Vampire Nighthawk, which
got Repealed. I assembled Tron and played a Sundering Titan, nuking a Swamp and Forest on his side.
He Naturalized the Titan eot and lost another 2 lands. Then I played a Wurmcoil and Slaver locked him,
but he wanted to continue playing it out, so I suited my token with 2 of his Rancor's.
G2 I think I Mage'd for a Platinum Angel and just rode that to victory with an Engine.

R2: My friend playing B/r Reanimator
He played either a Duress or an Inquisition, and we both kinda
durdled for a few turns, while I assembled Tron. Think I eventually Slaver
locked him. G2 I don't remember much, I think I just beat him down with an
Engine and had Spell Burst lock.

R3: Friend Jeremy with Eggs.
G1 was pretty uneventful, he played some baubles and spheres. I Condescended one of
them and Repealed something else, assembled Tron, and Slavered him and made him
sac all his stuff for nothing and left him with useless cards. Found AR and
Slaver locked him. G2 I made land drops while he played some baubles and
suspended a Lotus Bloom. The turn before LB resolved I played a Slaver, used his
Spell Pierce to counter the Bloom and then basically ruined his setup. Had
Slaver and Spell Burst lock at the end.

R4: Jeremy with an Elf beatdown.
He played some mana dorks, and I couldn't find an Island to save my life, he
eventually made a bunch of 1/1's with some spell, then cast something that gave
them all +2/+2 and Trample and swung for a bunch. G2 I Dismembered a Prefect and
he didn't really get much going. Slaver locked him. G3 he drew like 8 Forests in
a row and I beat him down with an Engine.

Overall I liked the deck a lot, was the first time I got to play it on paper. Once I get the remaining cards, I'll probably be piloting this every week until the massive hate shows up like it always does. Glad I came across the deck!

[(nameless one)]

How was Metamorph? Was he useful?

I find that sometimes, O-Stone is too slow. I am better off resolving Plat. Angel or Wurmcoil against aggro.

I guess it's helpful against the mirror.

[Anarky87]

To be honest I only drew it once against my buddy in round 2, and even then I didn't need it as I had the game locked up with Slaver. There were a few times where I would have like to wipe the board, so maybe the 1-of would be alright, but I feel like 2 might be cool, too. I'll have to test and see.

Edit: Over on MTG Salvation, there's discussion of perhaps running 1 Slaver and 2 O. Stone. Being that with Treasure Mage you're still playing 'essentially' 5 Mindslavers, whereas there's no way to hit that 1-of Stone without digging deep with Thirst or getting lucky. Going up to 2 would help us find one a little better.

[Anarky87]

I've been testing out the changes of:

-3 Talisman of Dominance
-1 Mindslaver

+2 Island
+1 Oblivion Stone
+1 Wurmcoil Engine

Got tired of Talisman ruining hands that, had they been Islands instead, would have been playable. Also I wanted another O-Stone against aggro decks. I cut a Mindslaver and added a 3rd Wurmcoil Engine back in because the Wurm can just swing games (and my meta is pretty critter heavy) and Slaver needs a large mana investment (12 mana). And I can still fetch it with the 4 Treasure Mages, so if I want to close the game out, I usually can just tutor it up. So far I've really liked the changes.

[(nameless one)]

How is Talisman ruining hand? It's there to accelerate. It enables turn 3 Solemn Simulacrum to turn 4 Wurmcoil.

As for O-stone, I also am making the count to two. Although I have always wondered whether Steel Hellkite can pull that weight.

[Anarky87]

I simply got to the point where the only upside of the card for me was pitching to TfK. I never wanted to see it in my opening hand, never wanted to play it in the early turns because I had other things to do, and increased mulligans. I'd probably never want to tap out on turns 2, 3, and 4 just for a Wurmcoil that'll eat a removal/counter with no way for me to protect it (unless it was against some aggro deck where I knew they had zero way to remove it). It seemed it was kinda just there for possible turn 3 Simulacrums, which seems sweet, but rarely ever happened (I believe never in all the games I had played). It also gets hit by Stony Silence as well as your own O-Stones.

So now I lose the possible T3 golem (which just seem lackluster in general, tbh, wish I could cut him), which I'm fine with, and the pitching it to Thirst, which hasn't really been an issue either. I like making my land drops and countering stuff on T2 more often.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Here's the current list I'm playing:

24 Land
9 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins

8 Creatures
3 Solmen Simulacrum
2 Treasure Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel

28 Spells
4 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Expedition Map
3 Repeal
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Fabricate
1 All is Dust
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Trading Post
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Spell Burst

15 Sideboard
4 Dismember
4 Spell Pierce
3 Spreading Seas
2 Spellskite
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Cavern of Souls

[Anarky87]

Played our Saturday tournament tonight. Had 13 people which was a pretty good
turnout for us. I ended up going 3-1 with a first round bye, win against G/b
Infect, lost to white soldier/kithkin, and won against...Laboratory
Maniac/Leveler deck.

Round 2 G/b Infect:

Game one I remember Repealing her Glistner Elf once, but ended up taking a
few pumped hits up to 7 poison. I eventually top decked an Angel and slammed it
down. She said she had no outs to it so I beat her down with an Engine and
Slaver lock. Brought in the Dismembers and Pierces. Game 2 I got turned 3. Game
3 She double mulliganed and I kept with numerous Repeals and Condescends, and
turn 4 Tron. I popped down a Mage and tutored up an Angel. I started the beat
downs with an Angel, she had Dismember for it and a GFTT for my Mage, but I had
Academy Ruins to recur the angel. So I just did that and I think I tutored for a
Slaver towards the end to lock it up.

Round 3 White Kithkin/soldiers:

There were a bunch of creatures I don't remember exactly what all they
did. Game 1 I didn't Repeal a Preeminent Captain at the beginning of the attack
phase, which netted him Captain of the Watch and things kinda went down from
there. I attempted an Engine, but he top-decked a Path. Game 2 I was able to get
down 3 Wurmcoil Engines, but was still taking more than 18 life per swing with
Odric not allowing me to block anything. Couldn't find an O-Stone.

Round 4 LM/Leveler combo

Game 1 I didn't really know what he was playing. Looked mono-blue with some
Tron pieces. He played out triple Fog Bank and I had Mindslaver lock, but my
Engines couldn't find their way through the fog. So I had to Slaver him for
about 15 turns until I found Leveler, made him cast it to remove his deck and
decked him. Game 2 was more or less the same. He played some Fog Banks, I had
turn 4 Tron, into Engine and Slaver lock.

I can't seem to find the 2nd O-Stone locally, so I'll have to pick it up
online I suppose. I had to go back to the 2 Mindslaver set up, which hurt my
Round 3 match. Otherwise I think everything ran pretty smoothly. I might switch
up my board some and fit in some Aetherize since people only play creature
decks around here.

[Anarky87]

Played our tournament tonight, 10 people showed, went 4-0. Didn't have my 2nd O stone again, but a friend shot me a text after the tournament to say he had picked one up.

I switched up my MD and SB a little after last week's tourney. I trimmed an Island off and went to 24 lands, and added the 4th Repeal. Then for my SB I trimmed my Dismembers down to 3 (I've never really wanted to bring in all 4 and it seems against aggro decks that just throw dudes down, they don't care if you Flame Rift yourself to off one of their dudes), cut 2 Relics, since no one plays any GY based stuff, and added 2 Aetherize, 1 Cyclonic Rift, and 1 Steel Hellkite.


3 Dismember
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spreading Seas
2 Aetherize
2 Squelch
2 Spellskite
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Cyclonic Rift


Aetherize seemed pretty awesome. I played against a B/r Vampire deck that could really put out the beats. I let him overextend while I built up my lands, then hit him with an Aetherize, put 5 guys back in his hand (He was tapped out, too) which let me drop Wurmcoil next turn followed by O Stone. The Rift and dragon I can't really comment too much on, as I didn't see them much. There were a handful of games where I had Rift in hand, but didn't need to cast it because I was in a good spot.

[kombatkiwi]

Does every opponent at your store play their own random brew or do some other people actually own meta decks? Your last couple of reports are a bit weird lol, I don't know if the deck is good or if the field was just very soft

[Anarky87]

Some do. But, most of the guys coming are older guys and they bring their younger kids (12-16) and they're firmly "Anti-Netdecking" because that ruins the game and it's not something you created and all that crap. So that philosophy gets kinda pawned off on their kids as well. But nearly all of them are sitting on sets of all the shocklands, fetches, staples, etc. We have another store in town, but they allow cheating or two guys can drag a round out for an hour and a half because they're getting in their binders and playing cards out of there for the 'lols' and the owners don't stop them. So it's a choice between a cheater's den and finishing a 4 round tournament at 3 am while playing against tier decks or playing at the other store, not a powerful meta, but more fun and rules are enforced and we get out at 9pm.

Last night we had 2 Soul Sisters decks (one I loaned out to my friend) a Kuldotha Burn, B/r Vampires, UW/r Planeswalkers, Kithkin Soldiers, and Tron (me). The week before we had Infect, Scapeshift, Burn, Kuldotha Burn, Kithkin Soldiers, and Tron. Gotta take what I can get and I'm usually interested in what they brew up. Also they usually have the obscure EDH cards I'm looking for, so I get to trade them some better cards for their decks.

But the deck is pretty solid, it routinely goes 4-0 and 3-1 on MTGO from what I've seen and has won at least 1 Premier Event. There's great discussion and info at the thread on mtgsalvation if you're looking to find out more.

[magic_gazz]

Anyone else have experience with this deck?

[JDK]

I still fail to see how this deck does anything better than UW Tron.

[kombatkiwi]

Anyone else have experience with this deck?

I top8ed a GPT with it

You have less dead cards than the UW version and your plays are not as easily disrupted (unburial rites vs deathrite etc) but white gives you actual removal spells (and stuff like Timely Reinforcements for the SB). Being able to just go eot turn4 gifts into unburial derp and beat decks that can't really interact with it (iona vs storm, Elesh Norn vs pod, etc) gives you such a useful angle.

If I were to keep playing the deck I would probably try pick up the cards for the white version but I just sold all the cards so w/e

[magic_gazz]

I top8ed a GPT with it

You have less dead cards than the UW version and your plays are not as easily disrupted (unburial rites vs deathrite etc) but white gives you actual removal spells (and stuff like Timely Reinforcements for the SB). Being able to just go eot turn4 gifts into unburial derp and beat decks that can't really interact with it (iona vs storm, Elesh Norn vs pod, etc) gives you such a useful angle.

If I were to keep playing the deck I would probably try pick up the cards for the white version but I just sold all the cards so w/e

Liam?

Adding white is my plan but it will be over time when I can afford to pick up the cards.

[LurkingMatt]

I still fail to see how this deck does anything better than UW Tron.

It doesn't. It doesn't really need the Tron to win but so doesn't UW, so that not a major fact.

It is a completely different beast trying to control the stack while UW tries to control the board.

Also the "kill" is even less interactive since once Slaver Lock is established, they simply have lost.
If they do not realize that conceding is the thing to do, I will GLADLY see their whole deck, their
SB tech and also win 1-0 since I have to make "really, really hard decisions" since I want their
hand in the PERFECT rainbow colors suiting my current mood. :-P
Plan B is similiar to UWs: Panzer them down 'til resistance stops and broken body litter your
tank threads... (sorry.... my imagination running rampant with Riot Pictures).

I played more then a few games vs UW Trons during it's "rise to power" and they had a hard time
handling me due to the high counter, low "relevant" permanent count.

Both Decks are capable of incapacitating opponents starting turn 3, while slaverlocking can occur as
early as T4/T5 with a good 7 draw.

Also the Tron is only a addition to play "better" WinCons.

I have been playing this deck (while owning everything for G, G(r), UW, UR versions) and a selfbrewed "SuperFiends" Deck
for quite some time now and am still learning new things every time I pick it up (especially from my brain farts).

If you like interactive games and mind magic, this deck is really nice - and closest to 26Counterspell.dec I could find.
Thus few(er) mistakes can be tolerated since anything passing the counterscreen has to be handled.

This deck is weak to Aggro, but "generally speaking" ok vs Midrange and good vs Control.
THAT would be the major additional difference I guess?

If the meta generally shifts towards aggro as can be expected with the current bannings,
UW will be a good choice though. Still I probably won't really make the switch unless it
appears to become a real uphill battle. If I would follow my Spike anytime he yells I would
simply sleeve up my Karns, throw a kiss to Emrakul waiting in the Binder and start Panzering
those poor souls with G(x).

So GL to any of you trying to use the "well oiled Machine" to your advantage.

Regards,
Matt

[4eak]

I started with the initial decklists, and I really enjoyed the deck. I thought I'd share my joy with anyone who is interested. After practicing, I've ended up slowly making changes. I've moved more towards a draw/go style (it was already bent that way, but I bent it further), and it has been working for me. This is what I've arrived at:

9 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Academy Ruins
3 Tolaria West

1 Mindslaver
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
1 Staff of Nin

4 Expedition Map
4 Fabricate
4 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Remand
4 Condescend
3 Spell Burst

4 Repeal
4 Oblivion Stone

SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 3 Torpor Orb
SB: 2 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 Culling Scales
SB: 1 Platinum Angel

This list differs a bit from many that I see in several ways:

No Solemn Simulacrum or Treasure Mage. Playing draw/go just seems to work better until you need to tutor and make bomby plays. You have more control of the game state this way. Both creatures beg you to play them early and at often inopportune times where it is just better to keep mana open. Mage is particlar bad early because you want really want to wait until you know exactly what you need (and to not give away your gameplan to your opponent, whatever it may be).

Treasure Mage has been replaced with Fabricate. You lose a possible blocker, but you also generate some virtual CA against opposing removal, and most importantly, you can Fabricate for O-stone (a very common target for me), map (yuuuup), and SB cards in G2/3. Fabricate, unlike mage, plays nice with Torpor Orb as well.

Solemn Simulacrum has been replaced with Tolaria West to some extent. The mana development of Solemn Simulacrum isn't good enough for the slot. Development needs to be for tron (nothing else is worthwhile), and you should naturally have a high enough blue count that SS isn't necessary for coloration. I like having Tolaria West in high quantity - it helps in consistently building tron (although, I despise the sorcery speed). There aren't significant T1 plays besides map to make in this deck. That it comes into play tapped is largely mitigated in opening hands. Having more tutors for your Tron or Academy Ruins is wonderful. With higher land count, you mulligan less, and the higher blue count count is really nice as well.

No Talismans. The deck has more consistent access to blue and tron, and it develops through draw/go. Not playing non-land permanents, besides map and bombs, means that O-stone becomes extremely asymmetrical. I think O-stone may be the best card in the deck. You play tempo-blue control on your opponent while developing until they get some critical mass going, and then you wipe them out with O-stone. I am absolutely stunned that people are only running this as a 1x. Turn 4 and 5 O-stones, particularly when disrupted with permission and bounce before hand, are quite powerful in this format. It is a reset button and huge CA. Decks have to overextend into it because if they wait, they'll get rocked by our end game. O-stone is miles better than Talismans, and it fits the draw/go style of the deck quite well.

This list has a very slimmed down win-condition selection, which works fine when tutoring. Slaver is clearly the preferred way to end most games, but sometimes you need cheaper alternatives or intermediate bombs to help you get there. Batterskull is quite good against heavy opposing removal, and the 1cc difference between skull and wurm does come up often enough. I see no reason for the second Mindslaver; I almost never cast the card unless I can pop it the same turn. Sundering Titan and Angel have been "meh" for me (despite them being some of my favorite cards - I started playing this game in Mirrodin). Angel is the SB as a hail mary, and I may put Titan back in the SB as well (one-sided armageddons are either not common enough due to certain mana bases or not relevant enough given the game state). Staff of Nin looks odd, but it has been quite worthy. There are plenty of targets for its ability, and the extra draw is fantastic. If I know I'm facing an incredible amount of control or a lot of x/1 bodies, this is a common card to get. When you are banking everything on a single card, sometimes this is the one to get; it is a good intermediate play that enables you to quickly snowball into the end game.



peace,
4eak

[carefulmug]

Ever since Seething Song got banned and UR storm began to rely on permanents, I switched over to Mono U Tron and, through good and bad, have stuck with it. It's one of the most satisfying decks to play in the format, in my opinion.

Anyway, if i may shine some light on the singleton Oboro:

-It dodges Sundering Titan. You don't want to blow up your only Island when the big boy comes out to play.

-It can be returned to hand as an additional card to discard to TfK if you don't want to discard an Artifact.

-As mentioned, it dodges Tec Edge, and enables your tron to be protected from Tec Edge.

-It is not an Island, thus providing Blue Mana but no Islandwalk against our worst matchup, Merfolk.

-If you need double blue, but only have one blue land and no Talisman and have not played a land that turn, Oboro is the card for you. (I'm sure that sentence was grammatically incorrect :) )

I know, at one time at least, it was cool to slander MTGSalvation around these parts of the web, but they have...by far...the most active thread devoted to Mono U Tron. Check it out.

[4eak]

I almost never want to use TWests or Map for Oboro. Singletons lands should be worth tutoring for. Oboro isn't worth tutoring for. I'm not convinced by your reasons.

Oboro may have certain tricks it can pull, but they are extremely uncommon and often irrelevant. It opens you to non-basic hate that doesn't necessarily need to occur. It competes with Island and TWest, which are both better cards in this deck.


Anyway, if i may shine some light on the singleton Oboro:

-It dodges Sundering Titan. You don't want to blow up your only Island when the big boy comes out to play.
Titan is too often weak. I'm not even running it anymore. TWest also dodges it, as does just having a lot of Islands.


-It can be returned to hand as an additional card to discard to TfK if you don't want to discard an Artifact.
The vast majority of the time, I wouldn't want to impede my mana development. I only get to drop 1 land each turn, and losing a land is half a timewalk for my opponent. I'd only TfK it away if I already had a huge land base in play, but this is quite an uncommon scenario.


-As mentioned, it dodges Tec Edge, and enables your tron to be protected from Tec Edge.
Tec Edge should be saved to disable tron or ruins in the vast majority of cases. Oboro generally won't protect tron unless your opponent has made a big mistake. I also have a lot of blue sources, which makes it even less enticing to go for them. Further, even if going for my sole blue source was the correct play, Oboro isn't always able to dodge it (sometimes I really do have to tap out). I see cards like Tec Edge and Blood Moon as reasons to play an Island instead.


-It is not an Island, thus providing Blue Mana but no Islandwalk against our worst matchup, Merfolk.
I'm highly likely to have an island in play, and I wouldn't be tutoring for it the vast majority of the time (if I have 3 non-blue lands in play, I'm generally going to use map for a tron piece -- else I wouldn't have kept that hand). My gameplan is generally to tron -> O-stone or Wurm/Skull to stabilize.


-If you need double blue, but only have one blue land and no Talisman and have not played a land that turn, Oboro is the card for you.
I assume you mean that Oboro can "filter" a single colorless mana into a blue, at the cost of a land drop. Of course, this is assuming Oboro is already in play the (1 out of 60 in my deck which I won't tutor for), and that none of the other blue sources are available. Yes, it can. Although, it is sorcery speed (can't play two instants during opponents turn). The odds of that play are very low though. I almost always have land to drop through, and losing one hurts bad.


peace,
4eak

[carefulmug]

@ 4reak

I'm not trying to convince anyone to play Oboro or not. Lists do well with and without it. I'm trying to answer an earlier query regarding its presence. These aren't my reasons. They're reasons as described by the deck's creator over on Salvation.

Also, I should mention I was speaking of Oboro's applications in the stock list, and you have a fairly different list from what most people are typically exposed to, so much of what I said is not nor was meant to be relevant to your list.

Anyway, you're right: these uses are certainly marginal, you are correct, but they exist, and there are a number of them, and I feel each player should know all things available to them before making a personal decision to cut cards or alter the stock list.

For instance, many people do and will continue to play Titan. Many people do not play Tolarian West since it comes into play tapped. Etc..

You have a highly individualized list, and I applaud you for that. It looks good. I like the quad O-Stone and the Fabricates. It may easily be superior.

But most people are going to snag a list from a daily before they start modifying it to their preferences, play style, and meta, and it seemed important to answer the question of "why" the Oboro present in these lists.

[jarvisyu]

I started with the initial decklists, and I really enjoyed the deck. I thought I'd share my joy with anyone who is interested. After practicing, I've ended up slowly making changes. I've moved more towards a draw/go style (it was already bent that way, but I bent it further), and it has been working for me. This is what I've arrived at:

9 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Academy Ruins
3 Tolaria West

1 Mindslaver
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
1 Staff of Nin

4 Expedition Map
4 Fabricate
4 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Remand
4 Condescend
3 Spell Burst

4 Repeal
4 Oblivion Stone

SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 3 Torpor Orb
SB: 2 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 Culling Scales
SB: 1 Platinum Angel

This list differs a bit from many that I see in several ways:

No Solemn Simulacrum or Treasure Mage. Playing draw/go just seems to work better until you need to tutor and make bomby plays. You have more control of the game state this way. Both creatures beg you to play them early and at often inopportune times where it is just better to keep mana open. Mage is particlar bad early because you want really want to wait until you know exactly what you need (and to not give away your gameplan to your opponent, whatever it may be).

Treasure Mage has been replaced with Fabricate. You lose a possible blocker, but you also generate some virtual CA against opposing removal, and most importantly, you can Fabricate for O-stone (a very common target for me), map (yuuuup), and SB cards in G2/3. Fabricate, unlike mage, plays nice with Torpor Orb as well.

Solemn Simulacrum has been replaced with Tolaria West to some extent. The mana development of Solemn Simulacrum isn't good enough for the slot. Development needs to be for tron (nothing else is worthwhile), and you should naturally have a high enough blue count that SS isn't necessary for coloration. I like having Tolaria West in high quantity - it helps in consistently building tron (although, I despise the sorcery speed). There aren't significant T1 plays besides map to make in this deck. That it comes into play tapped is largely mitigated in opening hands. Having more tutors for your Tron or Academy Ruins is wonderful. With higher land count, you mulligan less, and the higher blue count count is really nice as well.

No Talismans. The deck has more consistent access to blue and tron, and it develops through draw/go. Not playing non-land permanents, besides map and bombs, means that O-stone becomes extremely asymmetrical. I think O-stone may be the best card in the deck. You play tempo-blue control on your opponent while developing until they get some critical mass going, and then you wipe them out with O-stone. I am absolutely stunned that people are only running this as a 1x. Turn 4 and 5 O-stones, particularly when disrupted with permission and bounce before hand, are quite powerful in this format. It is a reset button and huge CA. Decks have to overextend into it because if they wait, they'll get rocked by our end game. O-stone is miles better than Talismans, and it fits the draw/go style of the deck quite well.

This list has a very slimmed down win-condition selection, which works fine when tutoring. Slaver is clearly the preferred way to end most games, but sometimes you need cheaper alternatives or intermediate bombs to help you get there. Batterskull is quite good against heavy opposing removal, and the 1cc difference between skull and wurm does come up often enough. I see no reason for the second Mindslaver; I almost never cast the card unless I can pop it the same turn. Sundering Titan and Angel have been "meh" for me (despite them being some of my favorite cards - I started playing this game in Mirrodin). Angel is the SB as a hail mary, and I may put Titan back in the SB as well (one-sided armageddons are either not common enough due to certain mana bases or not relevant enough given the game state). Staff of Nin looks odd, but it has been quite worthy. There are plenty of targets for its ability, and the extra draw is fantastic. If I know I'm facing an incredible amount of control or a lot of x/1 bodies, this is a common card to get. When you are banking everything on a single card, sometimes this is the one to get; it is a good intermediate play that enables you to quickly snowball into the end game.



peace,
4eak

Love the list, looks extremely well thought out.

3 Spell Burst seems like a lot, though?

[4eak]

Love the list, looks extremely well thought out.

3 Spell Burst seems like a lot, though?

I don't like Spell Burst that much. It might be the worst card in the main. The buyback is generally irrelevant in the early game, where I need the most help. Late game, this deck is a shark drowning everyone in the deep ocean of our mana pool and bombs, and while Spell Burst shines at that stage, that isn't what I really need from that slot. I'm still trying other things out in its place.

I'm very interested in suggestions.

peace,
4eak

[Di]

I don't like Spell Burst that much. It might be the worst card in the main. The buyback is generally irrelevant in the early game, where I need the most help. Late game, this deck is a shark drowning everyone in the deep ocean of our mana pool and bombs, and while Spell Burst shines at that stage, that isn't what I really need from that slot. I'm still trying other things out in its place.

I'm very interested in suggestions.

peace,
4eak

I've played the deck on and off for about a year (and really like your list), but Spell Burst has always been a pain because it's poor early game and by the time it's buyback is useful you're already slamming bombs and winning. The main reason I why I've strayed away from the deck is because it struggles mightily against faster decks. It doesn't quite have the consistency of GR Tron to hit Wurmcoil or Karn by turn three or Pyroclasm to reset the board, and often times I feel like Oblivion Stone comes a turn too slow here because you aren't hitting tron by turn three very often. That said, my greatest success came with running Ratchet Bomb essentially in that same slot. It also can be slow at times, but it at least allows you to interact more against aggressive decks where cards like Remand are terrible and Repeal only buys so much time. But it does a meaningful job at slowing them down, and can also be really solid in virtually all other matchups. At the very least I'd consider it for the sideboard. I've also considered simply maindecking Spellskite, but for most matchups it's just a wall at best so I'd prefer to use the route that can actually kill things like Pyromancer's Ascenion, Pestermite, Melira, mana dorks, etc.

Also, I'd definitely run at least one Ghost Quarter. I've lost far too many games against a deck like Affinity because I'd finally manage to Oblivion Stone the board away only to get stuck dying to a Nexus the following turn or two. There's a Needle and Hurkly's in the sideboard sure, but that's the only means of interacting with them and Needle dies to Oblivion Stone. Plus it makes the excess Tolaria West and Maps not as useless when you already have Tron/Ruins available in the mid-late game. Also relevant against Celestial Colonnade, which has occasionally been a thorn in my side, and it still has applications against Tron and Gavony Township.

[Valtrix]

4eak and I have both been tuning the deck together, and we have pretty close lists at this point. Some things that I thought might be useful too, that I haven't completely decided on:

Wayfarer's Bauble: This card can certainly be awkward, although it does help you play out hands where you don't have tron assembled right away. Being an artifact for thirst for knowledge certainly has not been irrelevant, although there are definitely times when this card can be awkward. The reason to choose this over mana artifacts is that it plays nice with oblivion stone (which I also run 4 of as well).

Telling Time: It can help smooth out some early draws for sure, and I like the instant speed so it gives you flexibility with your other instants. I really want this card to be good, and it's okay but I don't feel like it digs far enough.

Serum Visions: I haven't played this card, but I kind of want to. We tend not to have a ton of turn one plays, and this can help us find the right cards early. It's no ancient stirrings for sure, but it might be useful. I haven't tried it out yet, but I probably will see if it can be useful. I really wish we had access to Ponder or even preordain in this format.

As has been mentioned, I think this deck needs to be focused around being able to affect the game earlier, since late game it's immensely powerful. I'm not sure right now whether that means running cantrips for more consistency, more counterspells to help early game, some slightly "faster" ways to interact with fast decks over ostone (ratchet bomb? Culling Scales? blockers like Trinket mage?), or some mana accelerants. I've only gotten to practice on Cockatrice, but testing there has not been incredibly useful after a point. I will have this deck together for my local FNM modern which has a much better meta and I can start to figure some of these things out and get some better testing in.

[jarvisyu]

I've played the deck on and off for about a year (and really like your list), but Spell Burst has always been a pain because it's poor early game and by the time it's buyback is useful you're already slamming bombs and winning. The main reason I why I've strayed away from the deck is because it struggles mightily against faster decks. It doesn't quite have the consistency of GR Tron to hit Wurmcoil or Karn by turn three or Pyroclasm to reset the board, and often times I feel like Oblivion Stone comes a turn too slow here because you aren't hitting tron by turn three very often. That said, my greatest success came with running Ratchet Bomb essentially in that same slot. It also can be slow at times, but it at least allows you to interact more against aggressive decks where cards like Remand are terrible and Repeal only buys so much time. But it does a meaningful job at slowing them down, and can also be really solid in virtually all other matchups. At the very least I'd consider it for the sideboard. I've also considered simply maindecking Spellskite, but for most matchups it's just a wall at best so I'd prefer to use the route that can actually kill things like Pyromancer's Ascenion, Pestermite, Melira, mana dorks, etc.

Also, I'd definitely run at least one Ghost Quarter. I've lost far too many games against a deck like Affinity because I'd finally manage to Oblivion Stone the board away only to get stuck dying to a Nexus the following turn or two. There's a Needle and Hurkly's in the sideboard sure, but that's the only means of interacting with them and Needle dies to Oblivion Stone. Plus it makes the excess Tolaria West and Maps not as useless when you already have Tron/Ruins available in the mid-late game. Also relevant against Celestial Colonnade, which has occasionally been a thorn in my side, and it still has applications against Tron and Gavony Township.

The old tron decks of yore used to play Spell Snare, and I think I like it here because an unanswered Confidant has the capability to run away with the game.

The other option is Mana Leak, but it's pretty terrible on the draw in those matchups whereas Spell Snare can at least catch the Confidant.

[jarvisyu]

also, I think I would like Mana Leak more if we had the capability to run with the 'signet draw' which is leave up leak on turn 2, then if they don't cast anything, play signet and leave up leak on turn 3 as well

[Valtrix]

With the heavy fabricate lists, what about Silent Arbiter in the main? He's not my absolute favorite card, but he could buy you some necessary time against faster decks. Furthermore, he hates out twin if you live long enough to drop him in play (and they don't have double bolt or something). Not amazing, but I like more roadblocks. The role he really fills though is a turn 4 fabricatable answer, something that I don't believe this deck really has. As Di suggested, Ratchet bombs might help out, although getting to blow up 2cc at best on turn 4 doesn't really sound stellar (but might be good in combination with other things). I think I will try him out as a 1-of in the main and see how it goes.

[Valtrix]

I took the following to FNM on Friday, going 4-0.

4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Expedition Map
1 Mindslaver
4 Remand
1 Spell Burst
4 Condescend
4 Repeal
8 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Academy Ruins
4 Oblivion Stone
3 Tolaria West
4 Fabricate
1 Batterskull
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel
1 Telling Time
SB: 4 Spellskite
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 2 Torpor Orb
SB: 3 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Culling Scales
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

I'm pretty happy with the list right now. The only change I'm going to make is -1 Telling Time for 1 negate. I'm also considering if I should change the ruins out for a different land, and possible the platinum angel for something else. Otherwise it's performing very consistently, I have plenty of countermagic, and plenty of options as the game goes on. As such I'm very happy with the list. Quick overview of rounds:

R1: vs. UWR Control (2-1)
G1: I had to mull to 5 to find a single blue source. I could have won, but he drew 3x Tec edge, so no hope of beating that on mull to 5.
G2: We play draw go again, I go for a fabricate, it gets countered. I go for a mindslaver. It gets to his turn, and he can't answer it, and ends up scooping. I didn't quite have the tron mana yet, but would have been able to set it up with a double turn anyway.
G3: We play draw go for awhile, I get to cast some thirsts. I feel like I'm in a decent position, so I go for a fabricate. He negates, I negate back. He negates again, so I remand my fabricate, but he counterfluxes that. We're both in topdeck mode, and he's beating me down with colonnade, but I'm able to stick a wurmcoil and stabilize thanks to my spell burst handling his lightning bolt and then snapcaster next turn.

R2: vs. Splinter Twin (2-0)
G1: We play draw go, he tries to go for a combo, I repeal his guy. I play very safe, but he can never stick a combo or pressure me until I get slaver-lock online. He makes me play it out, but has Spellskite so I just wait until he gets a bolt and then kill himself with his skite.
G2: I open with 2x Spellskite + Torpor Orb, so he can't really get any early combos. He plays a turn 3 blood moon, but only off one island, and I had an island too. I end up drawing even more islands, but he's just stuck on the one. He plays a snapcaster and pestermite and goes for the beatdown plan. He almost gets there, but 2x repeal buys me time for a wurmcoil and then I go on the beatdown. THe moon really screwed him over that game since he was stuck on one blue source and couldn't play effectively because of it.

R3: vs. Burn (2-0)
G1: He gets a land heavy hand and despite getting me to 4, I stabilize with a wurmcoil on turn 6.
G2: He has a good hand, with a goblin guide turn one, but I drew 2x Condescend and 2x Negate to stabilize at 4 and eventually get a spellskite + batterskull into play.

R4: vs. Obliterator Rock (2-0)
G1: He can't pressure me early, I tempo him with remands, repeal, and condescends, get tron online, slaver him, make him slaughter pact his own goyf, then sundering titan his lands so he can't pay next turn.
G2: Basically same thing as G1, but no slaver lock. I just outtempo him and get a wurmcoil into play, which he can't handle.

Gonna keep testing, but was real happy with the deck for my first in-person tournament. Will probably take this list to the Modern GP in Minneapolis in a couple weeks.

[Mr. Safety]

I've been telling rock players for ages that its nigh impossible to beat a wurmcoil. I even went so far as sideboarding Eradicate in my death cloud deck for them.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I've been telling rock players for ages that its nigh impossible to beat a wurmcoil. I even went so far as sideboarding Eradicate in my death cloud deck for them.

I dunno what rock colors you are playing, but white and Path to Exile give the best answer in the game to Wurmcoil Engine.

[Lord Seth]

I dunno what rock colors you are playing, but white and Path to Exile give the best answer in the game to Wurmcoil Engine.Rock is just Black/Green. If they were playing Black/Green/White they'd be playing Junk.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Rock is just Black/Green. If they were playing Black/Green/White they'd be playing Junk.

In Modern, any BG/x deck is labeled as Jund.

[LurkingMatt]

In Modern, any BG/x deck is labeled as Jund.

Strange.

Always thought Jund is bg R ?

Junk is bg W.

BUG is BG U.....

Regards,
Matt

[Valtrix]

I posted a report of my GP: Minneapolis tournament on MtgSalvation. Check it out here if you're interested: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/220176-monou-tron-the-well-oiled-machine?comment=3161. (I would have posted it here, but I think Salvation has a little more interest for this particular deck.)

[Valtrix]

Well, bringing out the Utron again tonight to test some Ugin in it. I think it could be good given again for the new meta. I had plenty of success in the pre-KTK meta, so my list is largely unchanged. Except for Ugin, who I think might be a threat that pushes the list over the edge. We will see. In general I have a very different philosophy from everybody else playing Utron. Basically, I want a mono-U control deck which functions without tron. However, I want ways to "power up" once tron is available. As a result I focus on cheaper artifacts (Batterskull and Ostone) as ways to have playable cards when tron doesn't come together, but offer a ton of power once tron is online. I'm worried that batterskull might be losing some power because of x/5s being more prevalent in the format now, but I'm willing to try them out first before immediately giving up on them. Since coming to a stable list last year I've always only played three very expensive things (2 fabricate, 1 mindslaver), which I want to replace with 3 Ugins. I think that he's just way better at dominating the game. So, here's my list for tonight:

//Mana (26 + 4)
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
9 Snow-Covered Island
2 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Expedition Map

//Control (23)
4 Oblivion Stone
4 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Repeal
2 Mana Leak
1 Spell Snare

//Win-cons (7)
3 Batterskull
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Wurmcoil Engine

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Annul
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Spellskite
SB: 3 Spell Snare
SB: 2 Trinket Mage
SB: 1 Elixir of Immortality

I haven't played Utron for quite awhile though, so we'll see how it goes. I probably won't find Ugins for tonight, so it will likely be 2 Fabricate + 1 Mindslaver, which I feel like is worse in general, but it's hard to say.

[aspersieman]

Well, bringing out the Utron again tonight to test some Ugin in it. I think it could be good given again for the new meta. I had plenty of success in the pre-KTK meta, so my list is largely unchanged. Except for Ugin, who I think might be a threat that pushes the list over the edge. We will see. In general I have a very different philosophy from everybody else playing Utron. Basically, I want a mono-U control deck which functions without tron. However, I want ways to "power up" once tron is available. As a result I focus on cheaper artifacts (Batterskull and Ostone) as ways to have playable cards when tron doesn't come together, but offer a ton of power once tron is online. I'm worried that batterskull might be losing some power because of x/5s being more prevalent in the format now, but I'm willing to try them out first before immediately giving up on them. Since coming to a stable list last year I've always only played three very expensive things (2 fabricate, 1 mindslaver), which I want to replace with 3 Ugins. I think that he's just way better at dominating the game. So, here's my list for tonight:

//Mana (26 + 4)
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
9 Snow-Covered Island
2 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Expedition Map

//Control (23)
4 Oblivion Stone
4 Remand
4 Condescend
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Repeal
2 Mana Leak
1 Spell Snare

//Win-cons (7)
3 Batterskull
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Wurmcoil Engine

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Annul
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Spellskite
SB: 3 Spell Snare
SB: 2 Trinket Mage
SB: 1 Elixir of Immortality

I haven't played Utron for quite awhile though, so we'll see how it goes. I probably won't find Ugins for tonight, so it will likely be 2 Fabricate + 1 Mindslaver, which I feel like is worse in general, but it's hard to say.

So Valtrix, I'm very interested to hear how your tournament went with the updated list. Do you have time for a quick report?