[Primer/Deck] Zoo

[feline]

http://i.imgur.com/y7i9pka.jpg

Do you like to play fair decks? Take advantage of the combat step with the most efficient power & toughness -to- mana cost ratio creatures in the Legacy format? If your focus is to drop your opponent as fast as possible with combat damage, followed up by some of the most effective burn spells available that act both as the last points of damage against an opponents life total, or removal against vital creatures that may hit the battlefield, then this deck known simply as "Zoo" might be a deck for your avenue of play, on top of that, Zoo has a track record in Legacy that some decks can only envy, though it is no longer a regular deck to beat as of 2013, it is still a deck that has some level of success, & in a format so diverse, it will always have a home whether it's a tier 1, 1.5, or tier 2 strategy.

1) Playing Zoo
2) Successful decklists & trends
3) Card choices
3a) Maindeck
3b) Sideboard
4) Price guide
5) Awesome links
6) Previous Zoo thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12624-Deck-Zoo special thanks to Pulp_Fiction (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?4266-Pulp_Fiction)
7) 20 Match ups

1) Playing Zoo:
Basics: Your route to success is through the combat step & burn, in which, burn itself can act both as removal against opposing creatures, or direct damage to finish the game when the opponent gets low enough. Drop a creature, next turn, drop more creatures, sing in the combat step, repeat next turn, use burn to take out creatures accordingly, & when they are low enough, just finish them off with your remaining burn spells in hand for the win. Your goal as a whole doesn't get any simpler than that.

Mulligans: Because of the mana curve of most Zoo decks is so low, even being a 3 color deck, you are loaded with fetchlands & duals, meaning that you will start with mostly keepable hands, & even if you do have to mulligan, sometimes all it takes is 1 land & some 1 drops to get the game going, depending on the specifics of the match up also come into play, if you know what you're playing against or not of course, if not, then you just have to base it on your gameplan that is getting their life total to zero.

Burn: When to burn, & not to burn. Generally as a basic rule, the lower their life total, the more you might want to save your burn to finish them off, the higher their life total, then it's a lean toward removal against their creature, since removing it will allow your own creatures to get through and do more damage. A Wild Nacatl swinging at an opponents life total does 3 damage unblocked potentially several times, but a Lightning Bolt only does 3 damage to an opponent once. If your Wild Nacatl can be blocked & traded with another creature (as in they both die), then keep your recurring damage, as in your creature, alive, & let your one time use burn spell take their creature out instead so you can potentially keep recurring combat damage from that creature. Obviously the other example is if they are at 3 or less life & you can "finish them" off. The one exception here is against most combo decks, they don't typically use creatures themselves, & even when they do they are usually single target bombs that are not burnable. So focus on taking their life total out as fast as possible before they combo off, if you're knowingly playing against a combo deck, then drop your creatures fast, once your creatures are down, keep swinging & start unloading your burn on them.

Variants: From "fast zoo" to "big zoo", & even lesser common lists that splash for a 4th color, like "dark zoo" as an example. The majority of zoo lists however leaned toward fast zoo, running a host of one drops that start swinging fast, it's not uncommon for three 1 drop creatures to come down in the first 2 turns of the game for zoo, backed up by equally cheap burn spells, it is one of the fastest "fair decks" you can pilot, netting turn 4 kills uninterrupted are not uncommon (like "goldfishing" for 20 damage as an example) just by swinging creatures during the combat step & burning the opponent with your red spells when they get low. More recent Zoo success however has leaned more toward the "big zoo" variants since 2012.

Fast Zoo:
This version of Zoo was the more popular overall, running more 1 drops including Loam Lion & Goblin Guide in addition to staples Kird Ape & Wild Nacatl, attempting to kill the opponent as fast as possible, fast/early combat steps swinging, followed by burn spells to finish the opponent off when not used on opposing creatures. However, as of the more recent 2012-13 trends, it makes up the lesser half of Zoo strategies.

Big Zoo:
This version of Zoo is the other side of the deck, running bigger creatures, & even Noble Hierarch to drop things like Knight of the Reliquary on turn 2. This is also where you'll sometimes find the Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire combo, though less common than "Fast Zoo" during Zoo's peak in 2011, as of the more recent 2012-13 trends, "Big Zoo" makes up a greater half of Zoo strategies.

History:
Zoo decks have actually been around since an old Standard/Type II that is Return to Ravnica, cards in the original Zoo used to include things like Scab-Clan Mauler, Watchwolf, Isamaru, Hound of Konda, Savannah Lions & even Seal of Fire & Char as some examples. For the Zoo of Today however, we will only go as far back as 2009, shortly before the deck was simply called "Zoo", then listed as "Naya Zoo." Becoming a "Deck to Beat" in Legacy for a time, & peaking in 2011, before lowering down to a tier 2 strategy, Zoo has a massive track record of top 16 placings alone, all the deck references you could ever want:

2) Successful decklists & trends: from here http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/ & http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Legacy&page=1
2009:
8th place - Brian Six - GP Chicago (1,230 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=27716)
14th place - Matthew McGrath - SCG Boston (187 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29180)
4th place - Alix Hatfield - SCG Boston (187 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29170)
1st place - Alix Hatfield - SCG Charlotte (109 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29839)
3rd place - Julian De Los Santos - SCG Charlotte (109 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29844)
7th place - Jonathan Bode - SCG Charlotte (109 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29841)
9th place - Marsh Usary - SCG Charlotte (109 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29846)
14th place - Tim Furrow - SCG Charlotte (109 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29851)
13th place - Mitchell Reiners - SCG Philadelphia (147 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29972)
14th place - Robery Cusick - SCG Philadelphia (147 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29973)
16th place - Joe DiClemente - SCG Philadelphia (147 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29973)
4th place - Mark Larson - SCG St Louis (128 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30535)

2010:
2nd place - Shane Downer - SCG Los Angeles (142 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30755)
1st place - Tom Ross - SCG Dallas/Forth Worth (117 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30809)
14th place - Anthony Avitollo - SCG Dallas/Forth Worth (117 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30824) dark zoo
3rd place - Richard Bland - GP Madrid (1,116 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31529)
7th place - Alejandro Delgado - GP Madrid (1,116 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31527)
8th place - Sven Dijt - GP Madrid (1,116 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31531)
6th place - Alix Hatfield - SCG Richmond (236 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31518)
15th place - Matt Mancinelli - SCG Richmond (236 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31509)
16th place - Dominic Lodovichetti - SCG Richmond (236 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31507)
7th place - Joshua Adams - SCG Atlanta (200 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=32450)
1st place - Matt Elias - SCG Philadelphia (205 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33233)
5th place - Asher Hecht - SCG Philadelphia (205 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33230)
7th place - Stephen Nagy - SCG Philadelphia (205 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33228)
11th place - Erick Nordstrom - SCG Philadelphia (205 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33223)
14th place - Robery Cusick - SCG Philadelphia (205 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33220)
2nd place - Matt Smith - SCG Seattle (191 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33306)
3rd place - John McFadden - SCG Seattle (191 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33307)
6th place - Daniel Marley - SCG Seattle (191 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33310)
7th place - Cody Damm - SCG St Louis (193 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33467)
10th place - Mark Larson - SCG St Louis (193 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33458)
15th place - Sean Mangner - SCG St Louis (193 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=33463)
Banning of Mystical Tutor July 1st
6th place - Sarah Brennecke - SCG Minneapolis (170 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=34736)
13th place - Kevin Kehoe - SCG Baltimore (233 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=34841)
14th place - Vincent Lanceford - SCG Charlotte (218 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=35490)

2011:
Banning of Survival of the Fittest January 1st
8th place - mishimakaz - Magic-League Legacy Master 1/1/2011 (111 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5450&iddeck=39478)
5th place - Issac Rancic - Cerro M MLL#5 (117 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5515&iddeck=39941) punishing
10th place - Stanley Smith - SCG Indianapolis (267 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36636)
4th place - Ivan Garcia Marin - Open City of Bridges, Spain (171 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5763&iddeck=41732)
7th place - Gines Valera - Open City of Bridges, Spain (171 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5763&iddeck=41735)
8th place - Cesar Morais Rubio - Open City of Bridges, Spain (171 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5763&iddeck=41736)
7th place - Kemper Pogue - SCG Washington (290 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36858)
8th place - Mary Jacobson - SCG Washington (290 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36856)
10th place - Stanley Smith - SCG Washington (290 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=36851)
5th place - Jonas Barbulla - Wintermercadiade 2011 (123 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5764&iddeck=41741)
8th place - Simone Giaquinto - CerrorMagg (MI) MLL #7 AFCT (106 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5719&iddeck=41413) punishing
13th place - Shane Downey - SCG Edison (294 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37033)
11th place - Austin Beatty - SCG Forth Worth (157 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37285)
15th - Casey Steiner - SCG Forth Worth (157 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37289)
7th place - Pat Cox - SCG Atlanta (210 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37566)
16th place - John DeAngelos - SCG Atlanta (210 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=37578)
3rd place - Cascella Tommaso - Dragonsleague/Tarmogeddon, Padova (125 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5958&iddeck=43200)
5th place - Mark Boeyens - Manila (108 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6104&iddeck=44267)
Debut of Mental Misstep May 13th
6th place - Rafael Garcia - Bazarr of Moxen V (633 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6147&iddeck=44558)
15th place - David Price - SCG Louisville (203 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38404)
1st place - Pat Cox - SCG Invitational Indianapolis (140 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38846)
8th place - Patrick Sullivan - SCG Invitational Indianapolis (140 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38853")
7th place - John Kubilis - GP Providence (1,182 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38876)
Day 1 undefeated - Jesse Hatfield - GP Providence (1,182 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6207&iddeck=44994)
10th place - Kemper Pogue - SCG Baltimore (318 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39290)
12th place - Thomas Evaristo - SCG Baltimore (318 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39288)
1st place - Caleb Durward - SCG Cincinnati (228 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39687) blue zoo
8th place - Andrew Boody - SCG Cincinnati (228 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39686)
11th place - Nick Colpron - SCG Seattle (184 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39814)
15th place - Joseph Naseef - SCG Seattle (184 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39809) blue zoo
2nd place - Dan Musser - SCG Pittsburgh (198 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39909)
10th place - Jacob Branstetter - SCG Pittsburgh (198 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=39918)
6th place - Patrick Cox - SCG Richmond (164 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40384)
10th place - Joshua Cho - SCG Richmond (164 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40379)
16th place - Mary Jacobson - SCG Richmond (164 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40379)
9th place - Antonio Gonzalez - 2011 Spanish Nationals Legacy Championship (318 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6694&iddeck=48550)
15th place - Jonas Sinacola - SCG Boston (268 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40492)
7th place - Francisco Fernandez - LCL Lliga Catalana de Legacy 4, Agost, Castelldefels (114 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6759&iddeck=48973) punishing
3rd place - Josh Burgoa - SCG Atlanta (249 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40719)
6th place - Manuel Gomez - LCL 2011 #Septiembre, Ingenio (137 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6848&iddeck=49709)
Banning of Mental Misstep October 1st
15th place - Warren Connell - SCG Indianapolis (290 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41099)
25th place - Grzegroz Kowalski - GP Amsterdam (1,878 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7050&iddeck=51167)
15th place - Mark Hinsz - SCG Kansas (156 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=42058)
11th place - Casey Steiner - SCG Las Vegas (168 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=42133)
6th place - Giacomo Barberis - MLL#3, Legnano (MI) (129 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7208&iddeck=52313) punishing
5th place - Giacomo Barberis - MLL#4 Cardano al campo (VA) (104 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7333&iddeck=53376) punishing
7th place - Stefano Marangon - MLL#4 Cardano al campo (VA) (104 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7333&iddeck=53378)
2nd place - Dan Musser - SCG Charlotte (325 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=42660)

2012:
4th place - Jesse McConahie - SCG Atlanta (191 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43049)
4th place - Albert Cuartiella - 1º Torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy 2012 (119 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7519&iddeck=54604) punishing
15th place - Gerard Coll - 2º torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy 2012 (109 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7676&iddeck=56520) punishing
8th place - Andrew Siebert - SCG Tampa (141 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=44340)
13th place - Alberto Cuartiella - LCL 2012 #3 (131 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8049&iddeck=59383) punishing
15th place - Joel Regueiro - 4º torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy, Esplugues (103 playres) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8176&iddeck=60011)
11th place - Mary Jacobson - GP Atlanta (905 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=47556)
2nd place - Ryan Lumpford - 2012 Gen Con Legacy Championship (350 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=8917&iddeck=65151)
7th place - Rafael Garcia - III Open Legacy Mtg Cantabria (146 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9284&iddeck=67763) blue zoo
16th place - Chris Wynes - SCG St Louis (162 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=50540)

2013:
24th place - Joshua Milliken - SCG Columbus (325 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52113)
5th place - Masato Ichige - GP Yokohama Side Event, Japan National Championships (384 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10317&iddeck=75205) punishing
2nd place - Manuel Gomez - LCL 2013 - Marzo (106 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10423&iddeck=76017)
8th place - Albert Cuartiella - LCL 2013 - Marzo (106 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10423&iddeck=76023) punishing
3rd place - Shawn Yu - Mirkwood Cup - (95 players) (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=11668&iddeck=85409) punishing
7th place - Shawn Yu - SCG Seattle (253 players) (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59988) punishing

2014:

Trends: As you can see, while traditional Zoo is currently past it's prime as a tier 1 strategy in the format, it is still a deck that is played with some level of success in Legacy.

3) Card Choices: (Only cards included in decklists since 2012 will be noted here, with the most commonly ran linked in bold, & less traditional stuff noted in italic)
3a) Maindeck: (average # of more traditional cards)
Creatures:
~1 drops:
Kird Ape (4) cheap efficient beater
Wild Nacatl (4) cheap efficient beater
Grim Lavamancer (3-4) ping any target for 2 damage
Noble Hierarch (4) Exalted & taps for mana, found more in "big zoo"
Goblin Guide (4) found more in "fast zoo"
Loam Lion (4) found more in "fast zoo"
Granger Guildmage non traditional
Birds of Paradise non traditional
~2 drops:
Scavenging Ooze (1-2) efficient beater with graveyard hate/life gain, mostly "big zoo" lists
Tarmogoyf (4) Legacy staple, efficient beater
Qasali Pridemage (2-4) efficient beater with exalted & sac Disenchant effect
Gaddock Teeg (1-2) usually found in sideboard
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben non traditional
Stoneforge Mystic non traditional
Kavu Predator non traditional
~3 drops:
Knight of the Reliquary (4) efficient beater, also tutors for lands
Terravore uncommonly ran, found more in "big zoo" lists as a 1 of
Loxodon Smiter non traditional
Mirran Crusader non traditional
Eternal Witness non traditional
Kitchen Finks non traditional
~4 drops:
Thrun, the Last Troll (1) efficient beater, uncounterable, regenerates, found in "big zoo" more recently as a 1 of
Bloodbraid Elf uncommonly ran, though in a couple "big zoo" decks more recently
~bombs:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite non traditional

Spells:
~Burn:
Lightning bolt (4) Legacy staple, cheap efficient burn
Chain Lightning (4) cheap efficient burn
Lightning Helix (4) efficient burn with lifegain
Punishing Fire (4) recurring burn with lifegain, found more in "big zoo"
Price of Progress (2) found more in "fast zoo"
Fireblast (2) found more in "fast zoo"
Fiery Justice non traditional
~Other removal:
Path to Exile (4) cheap efficient removal, found more in "fast zoo"
Swords to Plowshares (4) Legacy staple, cheap efficient removal, found more in "big zoo"
Dismember non traditional
~Equipments:
Sword of Fire and Ice non traditional
Batterskull non traditional
Umezawa's Jitte non traditional
Sword of Body and Mind non traditional
~Planeswalkers:
Elspeth, Knight-Errant uncommonly ran as a 1-2 of, found more in "big zoo"
Anaji Vengeant non traditional
~Enchantments:
Sylvan Library (2) a way to draw additional cards, at the cost of some life, usually a 1-2 of.
~Other:
Green Sun's Zenith (4) tutor for any green creature paying X, found more in "big zoo"

R/W/G Lands:
Forest (1)
Plains (1)
Mountain (1)
Taiga (2)
Plateau (2)
Savannah (1)
Arid Mesa (3-4)
Wooded Foothills (3-4)
Windswept Heath (3-4)
~Other Lands:
Wasteland (1-2) Legacy staple, nonbasic land removal, target for Knight of the Reliquary
Karakas (1) Legendary creature bounce, target for Knight of the Reliquary, 1 of
Dryad Arbor (1) A target for both Green Sun's Zenith & Knight of the Reliquary, 1 of
Grove of the Burnwillows (4) recurring lifegain for Punishing Fire, found more in "big zoo"
Horizon Canopy (1-2) Card draw, target for Knight of the Reliquary, 1-2 of when ran
Maze of Ith non traditional
Stirring Wildwood non traditional

Non Traditional: (Older tech/Rogue strategies. These are less common in Zoo since 2012, most of this stuff is "older tech" not found in current decks, or "rogue strategies" like Dark/Blue/Natural Order Zoo)
~Older tech: (found in lists pre/during Mental Misstep only)
Creatures:
Figure of Destiny (pre/during Mental Misstep)
Steppe Lynx (pre/during Mental Misstep)
Mogg Fanatic (pre Mental Misstep)
Vexing Shusher (pre Mental Misstep)
Keldon Marauders (pre Mental Misstep)
Woolly Thoctar (pre Mental Misstep)
Burning Tree Shaman (pre Mental Misstep)
Spells:
Sword of Feast and Famine (during Mental Misstep)
Basilisk Collar (pre Mental Misstep)
Magma Jet (pre Mental Misstep)
Path of Anger's Flame (pre Mental Misstep)
Rift Bolt (pre Mental Misstep)
Reckless Charge (pre Mental Misstep)
Lands:
Treetop Village (pre Mental Misstep)
~Other variants:
Blue Zoo:
Delver of Secrets (post Mental Misstep)
Vendilion Clique (post Mental Misstep)
Brainstorm (during/post Mental Misstep)
Mental Misstep (during Mental Misstep) Currently banned in Legacy
Jace, the Mind Sculptor (during Mental Misstep)
Tropical Island (during/post Mental Misstep)
Tundra (during/post Mental Misstep)
Volcanic Island (during Mental Misstep)
NO Zoo
Natural Order (during Mental Misstep)
Progenitus (during Mental Misstep)
Dark Zoo:
Dark Confidant (pre Mental Misstep)
Badlands (pre Mental Misstep)

3b) Sideboard: (Again, trends of more recent decklists are linked in bold, & stuff found in sideboards only since 2012 will be listed)
Hatebears:
Ethersworn Canonist combo hate
Gaddock Teeg combo hate
Qasali Pridemage commonly found in maindeck as well
Aven Mindcensor can prevent tutoring
Other Creatures:
Wilt-Leaf Liege
Dauntless Escort
Phyrexian Metamorth
Removal:
Oblivion Ring nice against Show and Tell
Umezawa's Jitte great as removal against opposing creature based decks
Burn:
Sulfuric Vortex anti life gain
Pyroclasm cheap sweeper
Artifact/Enchantment hate:
Krosan Grip almost uncounterable
Ancient Grudge 2 for 1 against artifacts
Damping Matrix also works against creatures with non mana abilities
Graveyard hate:
Tormod's Crypt free to cast
Faerie Macabre free to play
Surgical Extraction "free" to cast
Ravenous Trap "free" to cast
Relic of Progenitus 1 colorless, cantrips
Rest in Peace 1-W
Wheel of Sun and Moon W/G-W/G
Blue hate:
Choke play against a tapped out blue player
Pyroblast Legacy staple in red sideboards
Red Elemental Blast Legacy staple in red sideboards
Volcanic Fallout uncounterable sweeper
Combo hate:
Thorn of Amnythest great against storm based combo decks
Mindbreak Trap "free" to cast
Lands & related:
Bojuka Bog Graveyard hate, 1 of for Knight of the Reliquary
Tower of the Magistrate Artifact protection, 1 of for Knight of the Reliquary
Crop Rotation "1 time use" Knight of the Reliquary ability
Life from the Loam can return lands against Land Destruction, & give an edge in a slower, grindy match like the mirror
Other:
Sylvan Library usually a 1 of
Elspeth, Knight-Errant usually a 1 of
Enlightened Tutor net any artifact/enchantment in deck for certain match ups where they're more vital
Leyline of Sanctity a strategy against both discard, burn, & combo decks that target you
Pithing Needle cheap answer for opposing planeswalkers, equipments, or creature activations
Blue Zoo: non traditional
Spell Pierce

4) Price Guide of more common Zoo cards, based on trends since 2012: As of March 2013 (For the most current prices, click on the link of each card) High-Mid-Low according to http://magiccards.info/ & http://magic.tcgplayer.com/all_magic_sets.asp
$50.00+ average:
Tarmogoyf (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Tarmogoyf) $134.97 $114.42 $95.00
Karakas (http://magiccards.info/lg/en/248.html) $118.97 $98.63 $86.50
Savannah (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Savannah) $119.98 $87.93 $77.22
Taiga (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Taiga) $79.98 $63.23 $54.17

$20.00 to $50.00:
Plateau (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Plateau) $50.00 $43.73 $37.00
Wasteland (http://magiccards.info/tp/en/340.html) $55.95 $49.46 $41.95
Windswept Heath (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Windswept+Heath) $51.97 $45.80 $35.00
Wooded Foothills (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Wooded+Foothills) $41.18 $32.54 $36.50
Arid Mesa (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Arid+Mesa) $39.98 $24.32 $20.51
Grove of the Burnwillows (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/176.html) $24.98 $21.62 $17.73
Noble Hierarch (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Noble+Hierarch) $34.98 $29.48 $26.00
Scavenging Ooze (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Scavenging+Ooze) $40.00 $32.46 $29.99
Elspeth, Knight-Errant (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Elspeth%2C+Knight-Errant) $27.98 $23.41 $19.95

$10.00 to $20.00:
Horizon Canopy (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Horizon+Canopy) $14.97 $11.36 $8.47
Thrun, the Last Troll (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Thrun%2C+the+Last+Troll) $15.00 $11.13 $7.55
Chain Lightning (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Chain+Lightning) $16.03 $13.08 $10.49
Sylvan Library (http://magiccards.info/5e/en/191.html) $14.97 $11.91 $9.78

$5.00 to $10.00:
Knight of the Reliquary (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Knight+of+the+Reliquary) $10.29 $8.00 $6.51
Terravore (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Terravore) $12.34 $7.36 $5.07
Goblin Guide (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Goblin+Guide) $8.98 $6.09 $4.51
Path to Exile (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Path+to+Exile) $9.97 $7.29 $6.24
Ethersworn Canonist (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Ethersworn+Canonist) $10.99 $9.47 $8.00

$2.00 to $5.00:
Swords to Plowshares (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Swords+to+Plowshares) $5.30 $4.08 $3.22
Green Sun's Zenith (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Green+Sun%27s+Zenith) $9.98 $4.59 $3.65
Gaddock Teeg (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Gaddock+Teeg) $6.99 $5.21 $4.04
Lightning Helix (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Lightning+Helix) $6.98 $4.37 $3.36
Price of Progress (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Price+of+Progress) $4.11 $3.67 $3.00
Dryad Arbor (http://magiccards.info/fut/en/174.html) $4.11 $2.87 $2.20
Krosan Grip (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Krosan+Grip) $3.08 $2.19 $1.69

$1.00 to $2.00:
Grim Lavamancer (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Grim+Lavamancer) $2.97 $1.85 $0.99
Fireblast (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Fireblast) $2.75 $1.35 $0.92

$1.00 or less average:
Lightning Bolt (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Lightning+bolt) $1.99 $1.06 $0.66
Punishing Fire (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Punishing+Fire) $3.00 $0.40 $0.15
Kird Ape (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Kird+Ape) $1.49 $1.00 $0.74
Wild Nacatl (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Wild+Nacatl) $0.79 $0.31 $0.15
Loam Lion (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Loam+Lion) $0.50 $0.33 $0.15
Qasali Pridemage (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Qasali+Pridemage) $1.33 $0.93 $0.74
Pyroblast (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Pyroblast) $4.11 $1.00 $0.29
Choke (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Choke) $1.53 $0.89 $0.49
Tormod's Crypt (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Tormod%27s+Crypt&v=card&s=cname) $1.02 $0.48 $0.14
Ancient Grudge (http://magiccards.info/query?q=%21Ancient+Grudge) $0.48 $0.15 $0.01

5) Awesome Links: In relation to Zoo & Legacy
Price trends of singles:
http://www.mtgprice.com/sets/Shards_of_Alara/Wild_Nacatl

Zoo articles/reports/etc:
2012:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/23713_Legacy-Week---Zoo-Updates-For-Indy-And-SCG-Open--Dallas.html Article, Zoo update for early 2012 (Pat Cox)

2011:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/finals_dan_musser_vs_tony_chu.html Feature match, Zoo in the finals, SCG Charlotte (Dan Musser)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/22424-Should-You-Be-Playing-Zoo-Right-Now.html Article, Zoo during the height of Mental Misstep (Pat Cox)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/22335_Finals_Caleb_Durward_vs_Nicholas_Rausch.html Feature match, Blue Zoo in the finals, SCG Cincinnati (Caleb Durward)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/22122-Winning-The-SCG-Invitational-With-Wild-Nacatl-Part-2-Legacy.html Tournament report, SCG Invitational Indianapolis 1st place (Pat Cox)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/22058-Top-8ing-The-Invitational-With-Red-And-Wasteland-Zoo.html Article by SCG Invitational Indianapolis top 8 (Patrick Sullivan)

2010:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/19540_Finals_Matt_Smith_vs_Kyle_Boddy.html Feature match, Zoo in the finals, SCG Seattle (Matt Smith)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/19471_Finals_Matt_Elias_vs_Jim_Orr.html Feature match, Zoo in the finals, SCG Philadelphia (Matt Elias)
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpmad10/welcome#22 Feature match, Zoo in the top 4, GP Madrid (Richard Bland)
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/18799_Legacy-s-Allure---Exploring-Zoo-Variations.html Article, different versions of Zoo (Doug Linn)
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/feature-article-the-boss-wins-again-scg-legacy-report-1st/ Tournament report, Zoo in the finals, SCG Dallas/Fort Worth (Tom Ross)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/18644_Finals_Tom_Ross_vs_James_Palaima.html Feature match, Zoo in the finals, SCG Los Angeles (Tom Ross)

Zoo decklist sources:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tipo.php?archetype=Zoo&format=Legacy
Starcitygames Zoo decklists 2009-to-today (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t%5BT2%5D=3&event_ID=&feedin=&start_date=2002-11-03&end_date=2013-03-17&city=&state=&country=&start=1&finish=16&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name%5B1%5D=wild+nacatl&simple_card_name%5B2%5D=&simple_card_name%5B3%5D=&simple_card_name%5B4%5D=&simple_card_name%5B5%5D=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B1%5D=1&card_name%5B1%5D=&comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B2%5D=1&card_name%5B2%5D=&comparison%5B3%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B3%5D=1&card_name%5B3%5D=&comparison%5B4%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B4%5D=1&card_name%5B4%5D=&comparison%5B5%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B5%5D=1&card_name%5B5%5D=&sb_comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty%5B1%5D=1&sb_card_name%5B1%5D=&sb_comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&sb_card_qty%5B2%5D=1&sb_card_name%5B2%5D=&card_not%5B1%5D=&card_not%5B2%5D=&card_not%5B3%5D=&card_not%5B4%5D=&card_not%5B5%5D=&order_1=date+desc&order_2=&limit=100&action=Show+Decks&p=1)

Legacy metagame:
http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Legacy&page=1
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24023-40-Tier-Legacy-Decks-Lists-Singles-Prices-etc-To-be-updated-regularly(started-2012)

6) The previous Zoo thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12624-Deck-Zoo by Pulp_Fiction (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?4266-Pulp_Fiction), special thanks to Pulp_Fiction & every else that filled that thread with 4 years worth of Zoo discussion, including during Zoo's peak in 2011.

[feline]

7) 20 match ups: (Based mostly on decks that have performed with some level of consistent, higher placings since Return to Ravnica Legacy)

01) RUG (Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard: They are a tempo based aggro deck, luckily however, most of your stuff is cheap to cast, so their Dazes & Spell Pierces will become weak against you fairly quick. If you start out low on land drops, watch out for Stifle on your fetchland & Wasteland on your non basics. Their most powerful creature is Tarmogoyf which you can match with your own, on top of access to Knight of the Reliquary if you are running it. Even though their Delver of Secrets can become a 3/2 flyer, you have access to so much burn it should almost never be lethal. Also to note, though it's random, if you win the die role, just going 1st with a cheap & fast deck, against a tempo deck, can give you a lean depending on opening hands of both sides. Burn isn't so great against Nimble Mongoose however, their Mongoose isn't that great against your arsenal of creatures. Even double blocking with 2 creatures solves the problem just fine and makes it a 1 for 1 trade most of the time.
Post sideboard: Your options: Pyroblast Their options: Submerge. Other than that, game 2-3's will be similar to game 1. Whoever can win the combat damage race to get their opponent from 20 to 0 life.

02) Stoneblade (Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard: They are a control deck against you, so you have to win as fast as possible. Though be careful not to over commit if Engineered Explosives makes play, they also may have Supreme Verdict, though usually both sweepers are 1 of's. Other than that, they will have access to Batterskull through Stoneforge Mystic, so make sure you can burn the Stoneforge Mystic before it can tap & use it's ability to put Batterskull into play. They will also have some disruption in the form of counterspells & some discard, though luckily as an aggro deck, they lose life to things like Force of Will & Thoughtseize & every little bit helps. They will try to slow you down early with Lingering Souls, & Snapcaster Mage which will only do 2 damage to your creatures with mostly toughness of 3 or higher. In the end, your goal is to kill them before they stabilize the board & begin turning the game around.
Post sideboard: Your options: Choke, Pyroblast, Gaddock Teeg Their options: Maybe another sweeper in the form of Engineered Explosives/Supreme Verdict if they are sideboarding any, these are the most effective cards they can bring in against you, luckily however, if you resolve a Gaddock Teeg, & they can't answer it with a cheaper spell, you will essentially have a "soft lock" against them until they draw something like Swords to Plowshares. Games 2-3 be mindful of the increased possibility of more sweeper's accordingly, while also potentially setting them up for a lock with Choke, potentially baiting a counter with a bigger creature if you think they will spend a Force of Will on it, & if it gets to mid game, you can even cast Choke with Pyroblast back up, other than that your game plan is the same, get them from 20 to 0 life before they establish control of the board state & turn the game around in their favor.

03) U/W control variants (Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard: Your primary goal here is to race them before they establish control of the board state to turn the game around in their favor, though they will run sweepers that they can potentially cast from turn 2 starting with an alternate costing Terminus, this is another deck that also might run Engineered Explosives, depending on the specific persons decklist preferences. Also common, versions will run the Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top soft lock, so if they get one of those 2 cards down, make sure you play enough of your spells accordingly while judging possibly overcommitting into a sweeper. They will also have access to Snapcaster Mage & Stoneforge Mystic to both slow you down, net card advantage, & can even turn the game state into their favor by grabbing things like Batterskull. As far as their kill conditions go, there will be versions that run Rest in Piece + Helm of Obedience combo, while more traditional setups will run Entreat the Angels as their gameplan to win.
Post sideboard: Your options: Choke, Pyroblast, Gaddock Teeg Their options: Umezawa's Jitte increased, & possibly more sweepers if they aren't maindecking enough. Aside from the change of sideboarding, the games will still be similar, you need to kill them before they kill you, judge accordingly the gamestate of how much damage you're putting out, the potential of them casting a sweeper, the ability to recover in said situation, & try to resolve a Gaddock Teeg or Choke whether it's baiting their counters with other spells, or backing it up with Pyroblast.

04) BUG aggro (Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard: BUG aggro focuses more on a strategy similar to your own, with things like Delver of Secrets, Tarmogoyf, Deathrite Shaman (which has the potential to be a mana producer, do 2 damage to you, or gain them 2 life, every turn) & even a potential "bomb" that is the 5/5 flyer known as Tombstalker. Their disruption will be counters like Daze & Force of Will, discard like Hymn to Tourach, & removal in Abrupt Decay. Some versions well even focus on a more tempo based strategy and run Stifle & Spell Pierce as well, but tempo strategies are less effective against a low cost, fast with powerful cheap creature filled deck like Zoo. As far as their creatures go, Tombstalker dropping can even be burned with a single burn for 3 spell followed by Grim Lavamancer's ability if you don't want to lose card advantage, but by the time they cast a Tombstalker even with it's Delve ability, you should already be in a position close enough to just swing for another combat step, or even just finish them off with burn depending on when it comes down. If you're playing Grove of the Burnwillows Punishing Fire setup, it is good against some of their creatures, but their Goyf's & Tombstalker's will likely require more effort to remove, so don't let it get to that point unless it doesn't matter anymore & you can just finish them off for the win with your burn directly.
BUG midrange strategies are where you'll find things like Dark Confidant & Shardless Agent, the cascade effect used for tricks that are it's cheaper spells to be cast for free, while even sneaking in Ancestral Vision to really abuse the mechanic. Midrange decks usually have a better late game win % against faster, cheaper based aggro decks, getting them low enough however before they start to "stabilize" with their own creature base, you can just finish them off with burn.
Post sideboard: Your options: All Pyroblast will really do is stop an opposing counter, which will either be a taxing counter, or them pitching a 2nd card to Force of Will, or kill Delver of Secrets which dies to burn already. Their options: Snuff out is a potential card, some might even maindeck 1 or 2 depending on the pilot of the deck. Another card they might bring in is Umezawa's Jitte however they have to get it to stick onto a creature, & do combat damage with that creature, which is preventable fairly easily when you're filled with so many burn options. Other than that it is a race to see who can get who to 0 life first.

05) BUG control (Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard: BUG control focuses more on it's namesake, the control aspects of Black/Blue/Green cards in Legacy. This is where you'll find the planeswalkers Jace, the Mind Sculptor & Liliana of the Veil, make sure you don't let Liliana tick up, she will eat your creatures if she survives & gets +1 every turn. For creatures, Tarmogoyf & Deathrite Shaman are so good they are seen in BUG aggro, all the way through midrange strategies, & even common in some BUG control lists. Baleful Strix & Vendilion Clique's will also be more common here, as well as more discard like Thoughtseize. Their removal will be better than BUG aggro decks, still running Abrupt Decay & counters, but also having access to Liliana, Strix as a blocker, & even Jace potentially bouncing when vital. Maelstrom Pulse may also be found as Abrupt Decay's #5-6, though usually not a full playset.
Post sideboard: Your options: Pyroblast is more effective here since it can hit more creatures if they're running Strix/Clique, as well as Jace, the Mind Sculptor if things actually go that far & it becomes relevant. Their options: Pernicious Deed if you didn't see any maindeck, then there is likely some in the sideboard, though not all BUG control decks run this sweeper in their 75, not all lack it as an option either, & playing an aggro deck it is something to keep in mind. Luckily however it won't usually wipe the board until turn 4. Aside from that & potential 2 for 1's with Maelstrom Pulse & Hymn to Tourach most of their control is 1 for 1'ing you card for card, so race them accordingly because they are a control deck, and you have to kill them because they will likely gain control of the board state the longer the game goes.

06) Jund (Moderate playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard: They are a mid-range deck, you are a faster aggro deck, so they will likely play the control deck against you at first, getting out creatures to stop your own, and bringing the battle into where they are primed to excel, in the midrange. Your goal is to kill them, or get them so low you can finish them off with burn before that would happen. Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows combo is sometimes popular here in some lists, though luckily most of your creatures toughness is 3 or higher, so only their Abrupt Decay & Lightning Bolt will be truly effective removal. An even more effective removal however is Liliana of the Veil, though in Zoo's defense, you can just burn the planeswalker away to keep it from making you sac too many creatures, & as long as you answer Liliana right away, it won't be able to make you sac multiple creatures over the course of turns. Tarmogoyf Bloodbraid Elf & Deathrite Shaman also have a home in Jund as far as opposing creatures you're likely to see, luckily though, your Tarmogoyf can match their own & if they shrink the graveyard of card types with shaman, it affects both sides.
Post sideboard:Your options are mostly the same, Ethersworn Canonist can keep cascade from Bloodbraid Elf in check, however if they're running Punishing Fire then anything with toughness of 2 is likely worth keeping in the sideboard. Their options: A copy or 2 of Umezawa's Jitte might come in from their sideboard, & "possibly" more discard if they're only maindecking one half of Thoughtseize / Inquisition of Kozilek, but that's the main stuff to look out for. In games 2-3, you will still be doing the same as game 1 mostly, getting the win by taking them out as fast as you can, while their goal will be to get some creatures into play and try to take control of the board state with card advantage, removal, & bigger creatures.

07) Dredge (Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: This is where things start to get interesting, & no, this is not the most favorable start, especially game 1, without graveyard hate. It is Legacy, it is an extremely diverse format, combo & combo style type decks exist, & this is one of them. Zoo's biggest struggles in the format that is Legacy, is fast combo decks that can kill you, before you kill them. The one help in addition is only if you're running the "big zoo" variant, and you have access to Scavenging Ooze as a Green Sun's Zenith target, but if they start dredging fast enough, that might be just a bit too slow. Game 1 is just a full on race, & as far as Dredge goes, don't feel alone if you get a game 1 loss, the majority, but not all, decks in legacy, will lose a game 1 to dredge because the deck is so backwards, you'll have to burn your OWN creatures, to stop Bridge from Below, you'll NOT want to trade with Ichorids because they just keep coming back, so use your Path to Exiles on this guy, & in the case of manaless dredge, you will actually want to have them play first and be on the draw, because that means they will just pass the turn, -vs- them drawing a card & discarding it to start dredging. When it comes to backward strategies in the format, this deck isn't just an example, it is THEE example of "What the hell was that."
Post sideboard: Tormod's Crypt & any other graveyard hate are what to bring in, your goal is to prevent them from dredging so you can slow the game down enough to kill them before they actually start doing stuff. Again, dredge is so backwards, while Zoo is the fastest fair deck in the format & almost always plays the aggro deck, against combo trying to race, against control trying to beat out their card advantage, against other aggro decks that are more mid-range focused, against dredge, you actually have to take a bit of a "control deck" role, and actually push for your graveyard hate in order to stop them from getting out a dozen 2/2 zombies, 3/1 Ichorid's with haste, & a 10/10 or higher, regenerating troll, sometimes all by turn 3.

08) Maverick (Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: Key cards to stop Mother of Runes before it can start tapping, Knight of the Reliquary before it gets too big, Scavenging Ooze before it gets too big, & if their list still includes Stoneforge Mystic, they can net a Batterskull. so kill it so they can't put it into play until they have 5 mana, which can even be stopped by Gaddock Teeg. Fauna Shaman is another potential card that, if it comes down, it also needs to be killed or they will start "Survival of the Fittesting" for their best creatures, if you remember that old card before it was banned. Game 1's against this deck, you will have to try and kill them faster than they start to gain control of the board state with their bigger creatures & tutors. If you're playing Grove of the Burnwillows Punishing Fire setup, it is a good strategy here against their weaker creatures, which include their Mother of Runes.
Post sideboard: Your options: Swords to Plowshares & Path to Exile if you are running 1 main & 1 side, you want to have access to both in this match up, removal is key against Maverick as their creatures are more powerful. Ancient Grudge is another good one to bring in since it is a 2 for 1 against their multiple equipments. After that, your ultimate goal remains the same, kill them before they kill you, and try to do so in the early game, because they are better prepared for the -mid game- fight, so get them low while you can, & try to finish them off with burn. As well, same as game 1, do not let Mother of Runes start tapping for protection.

09) Ad Nauseam Storm decks (ANT/TES) (Light playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: Another combo deck, this match up is not as favorable either, though if your list is running Gaddock Teeg & you get it into play before they start to combo, you will potentially buy yourself enough time to finish them off, but that's about it. Even with running a hatebear, they can kill you before you even drop the card, they just have to play 9 spells & a finisher, usually by getting to an Ad Nauseam and then drawing a whole host of 0 & 1 mana cast cards, as well as 2 casts Infernal Tutor & Burning Wish.
TES versions will have more disruption in the form of Silence where ANT will have more disruption in increased discard spells.
Post sideboard: Your options: Ethersworn Canonist & Gaddock Teeg, also if you're running Mindbreak Trap it is very good here. Their options against you will likely not change, half their sideboard is wish targets, the other half is not aimed at aggro decks mostly. Just do what you can to get a hatebear type creature into play like Ethersworn or Gaddock teeg to stall them out so they don't kill you before you take the victory in the combat step.

10) High Tide (Light playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
Pre sideboard: And yet another combo match up, luckily however this deck isn't focused on killing as fast as possible, but still remains in their favor most of the time. Their route of action is to last as long as possible, then "going off" at the last possible turn before taking lethal, as well they can't combo before turn 3, and sometimes they need more than that, meaning they might not actually combo until turn 4, so up to that point you will get in some damage with your creatures, it will all come down to whether they have their combo pieces in time or not, while you're taking combat steps swinging their life total down. The only interaction between the 2 decks is potential Gaddock Teeg for you if you're running it, and from them Force of Will likely against an early drop to prevent enough damage to allow them to live longer & get more Islands into play. Once they resolve a Time Spiral & draw a new 7, they will likely keep going. If it gets to the point of casting a Blue Sun's Zenith on themselves for 10+ cards or more, just concede to save yourself the time, drawing that many cards or more means they are just not going to fizzle.
Post sideboard: Your options Ethersworn Canonist Gaddock Teeg & Mindbreak Trap if you're running Trap. Their options: Snap as the most likely bounce spell, other than that, their sideboard is mostly wish targets. Get as much of Ethersworn & Gaddock into play as you can, as they can not go off with an Ethersworn in play. As far as Mindbreak Trap, they will likely have counter magic back up, but if they go off the 1st time with a Time Spiral & it's the 3rd spell played, & they don't have back up, you can use the Mindbreak Trap to remove it & actually sneak a win as they take the next couple of turns to recover, while you swing with your creatures in the combat step to finish them off.

11) U/R Delver (Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: This is basically a weaker strategy to what you are doing, except that where they have weaker creatures, they have counterspells. However, you will almost always win on the battlefield, especially with stuff like Tarmogoyf which will usually be out of their burn range, unless they're running Thunderous Wrath & miracle it. This is also a deck that can run Price of Progress so if you have the option to get a Dual or a Basic, net a basic if you can make it work. Their creatures are things like Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets & Snapcaster Mage, all stuff that has power/toughness of 2 or less, so your creatures will almost always win, & your Grim Lavamancer if you're running it can eat all of their creatures. If you're playing Grove of the Burnwillows Punishing Fire setup, it is a very good strategy here.
Post sideboard: Your options: Pyroblast However, your burn can take care of any of their blue creatures, so all you're really doing is giving yourself a counterspell against their own, so it's definitely not required, as another creature drop after their counter can basically do the same thing. Their options: Hydroblast may come in, as well as Submerge but that's about it. The game plan is still the same, get out as many creatures as you can & start swinging, using your burn on their more vital creatures like Grim Lavamancer & Delver of Secrets since it can fly and do 3 dmg per.

12) Show and Tell variants (Sneak & Show/Omnitell) (Moderate-Heavy playtesting recommended, a more common match up)
Pre sideboard: Another combo match up, & another one not in your favor most of the time, they are likely to pull their combo off turns 2 if they are faster, to turn 4 if they're slower. Their goal is to play Show and Tell then, whatever you drop, likely won't matter when they drop a bomb like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Griselbrand or against Omnitell versions, Omniscience & then Burning Wish for Petals of Insight then cast it a repeated # of times, finishing you off with a storm spell, the other version being less complicated & just swinging with their bomb, using it to draw cards (Griselbrand) or make you sac 6 permanents (Emrakul). One thing to note, Griselbrand works by paying 7 life at a time, so if you get them low enough fast enough, they might actually get to the point of only being able to use it once, or even not at all if you're holding burn and untapped.
Post sideboard: Your options: Pyroblast is a good card to bring in on this match up, but if you're running something specifically for a Show and Tell match up in your sideboard, then you'll likely have access to something more effective that actually plays off their Show and Tell's like Oblivion Ring. Their options are less impressive, really keeping their same 15, though it is mostly because they don't have a harder match up against aggro based decks since they are a faster, combo deck. Game 2-3 if you have hate specifically for this deck, you can stop them when they cast Show and Tell by dropping an answer, but aside from that you'll be aiming to swing them down as low as you can before they combo out, hopefully low enough to kill them first.

13) Elves (Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: If it's Elves, it's got alot of creatures, but it's likely combo Elves. Their key spells for that are Green Sun's Zenith into a Regal Force to draw a bunch, or Natural Order for Craterhoof Behemoth for a killer combat step, or Glimpse of Nature to draw a bunch. In the end, it means they are going to try and draw a bunch of cards and finish their combo off with a very lethal attack step. Just burn their elves down accordingly, in the end, more elves = more mana, & less elves = less mana. They will likely take damage on purpose & not block, since most of your creatures will kill theirs without trading, & they want multiple elves in play so they can abuse the mana abilities to cast bigger spells earlier. If you're playing Grove of the Burnwillows Punishing Fire setup, it is very good here, able to kill almost all of their creatures, save for the bomb Regal Force.
Post sideboard: Your options: Ethersworn Canonist is one of the best options to have, they can literally be stuck casting 1 elf a turn, slowing them down enough that they can't Green Sun's Zenith early, or Glimpse of Nature properly, leaving them to only have Natural Order as an out and even then, they might still be waiting to cast elves from their hand if you have an ethersworn in play. Their options: Abrupt Decay might come in from the sideboard being that it is a staple black/green spell at this point in Legacy, and elf decks that are even mono green can splash a dual land and some fetches to be able to cast it easily with the swamp requirement, not to mention their mana producing elves. The goal games 2-3 will be similar to game 1, keep them low on elves while swinging the combat step to victory, just remember that it takes Craterhoof Behemoth a certain number of other untapped creatures in play for it's ability to become lethal against you. Out of all the combo or combo type decks you can go against, this is one that you have a better chance against, since much of their route of success involves dropping burnable creatures before hand.

14) Merfolk (Light-Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: Well this is a classic match up, going back a few years in Legacy at this point, & if you remember or were around back then, etc, then you know that it's a match up more in Zoo's favor, mostly because your burn can take out their Lords before they help each other grow too big, and your creatures are fast enough that their opposing countermagic means little, & their Aether Vials are just a bit too slow, especially if you're on the play. If you're playing Grove of the Burnwillows Punishing Fire setup, it is very good against the Merfolk strategy, keeping their 2/2's from ever growing if they can't get more than 1 "lord effect" into play at a time.
Post sideboard: Your options: Choke Pyroblast, their options: Submerge Umezawa's Jitte Game's 2-3 will not be too different than game 1, just use your burn accordingly and keep swinging with your creatures, your creatures are faster to come down earlier, and you can prevent their Lords from helping eachother too much, if they do stabilize the board state and you can't get in creature based damage anymore, you will usually have done enough damage to that point that you can finish them off with burn. The only trick they have post sideboard is Submerge which is especially weak against "faster zoo" which can drop 3 creatures on the 1st 2 turns along with so many 1 drops.

15) Belcher (Light playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: This combo match up is the last you want to go against, as well as almost any other creature based strategy. You will likely not even know you're playing against Belcher until they take their 1st turn & combo off right there, usually in the form of an army of a dozen 1/1 goblin tokens or more via Empty the Warrens, or just a direct kill that is Goblin Charbelcher itself, and of course, their deck is setup to abuse this card, they will only have 1 land, a mountain, in their deck, so it will almost always be lethal unless you have some extreme luck. Other times they will just Land Grand it out of their deck, then you just take damage = to the number of cards in their deck until its gone.
Post sideboard: Your options: Mindbreak Trap Their options, will likely not change, they will just do what they did game 1, most Belcher lists have a wish target sideboard, and what is a true sideboard isn't going to come in against you. As far as Ethersworn Canonist & Gaddock Teeg, they can work, but unlike against other storm type combo's, this deck will go off almost 100% of the time against you before you ever get to the point of having 2 land in play to play a 2 drop, so it's really Mindbreak Trap if you're running it, if not then hope they reveal that single Taiga from their deck early & basically fizzle, but it is something that is just extreme luck, nothing you have influence over on your side of the table. This is one of the most unfavorable decks you can go against.

16) Goblins (Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: Their goal is to overrun you with goblins. They will start out early dropping things like Aether Vial & Goblin Lackey, then get to a point of playing Goblin Matron & Goblin Ringleader, at that point, you have to have them low enough to finish them off with burn or just have more creatures out than they do, because after the Ringleader, they will likely have their Vial counters up & enough lands in play to start dropping multiple goblins per turn, not to mention it's even easier if you are unable to burn away a Goblin Warchief, so kill Warchiefs when you see them, or a turn with 2 goblins in play, might be followed by the next turn that ends with half a dozen goblins in play. Other priority burn targets are Goblin Lackey if it can swing next turn & you can't prevent it from hitting you with a blocker, & some of their Matron targets, like Siege-gang Commander & Krenko, Mob boss. If you're playing Grove of the Burnwillows Punishing Fire setup, it is very good against the goblin strategy.
Post sideboard: Your options: Ancient Grudge & Ethersworn Canonist However, half of the time their goblins will just be put into play through Aether Vial, so the canonist is less powerful if they have a Vial in play. Ancient grudge can help with that however, slowing down their plan to overrun you long enough for you to kill them first, and on top of that, Ancient Grudge can 2 for 1, against 2 artifacts of course if they drop a 2nd vial later. As far as the gameplan goes, it remains the same, swing your bigger creatures accordingly, and use your burn on more vital goblins like Goblin Warchief & other bigger ones netted with Goblin Matron. As for them, they might bring in Blood Moon, so be mindful and if you can, get basic lands, as you will see from game 1 they are probably running Wasteland.

17) Zombies (Moderate playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
Pre sideboard: Goblin Bombardment/Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler/Bloodghast/Lingering Souls allow them to really abuse these creatures that keep coming back into play from the graveyard based on Landfall or being recasted based on other zombies in play, or just making 4 1/1 soul tokens from 1 card, this also allows them to really abuse Cabal Therapy casting it twice easily. After that, they run some other cheap cast discard like Thoughtseize & in zombie form with Tidehollow Sculler, also Deathrite Shaman is popular as a recurring 2 damage to help compliment their other recurring damage. Primary Burn target: Carrion Feeder's, since it is basically Goblin Bombardment in creature form, setup to sac a creature for damage, & if it gets too big it will grow out of burn range. Also note zombies in play, since that means reanimating Gravecrawlers just by "recasting them." Luckily however, while they can really abuse, & reabuse so many cards, your creatures have higher toughness and will likely live through the combat step if traditionally dealt with, so they will have to do more than that to take your creatures out, unfortunately however, they have that option, with one of the namesake cards Goblin Bombardment
Post sideboard: Your options: Tormod's Crypt or whatever your graveyard hate is, is effective enough against enough of their strategy to bring in, it cuts off double Cabal Therapy, Lingering Souls flashback as well, Recurring Gravecrawlers & Bloodghast. Their options against you, they might bring in some removal if it's in their sideboard, also a Meekstone & Perish is found in the Sam Black Zombie list, a very well known piloter of the deck. Also if Goblin Bombardment is that much of an issue, especially if you're running "faster zoo" instead of "big zoo", then you can bring in Krosan Grip to stop those tricks with the card.

18) 12 post (Light playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
Pre sideboard: Best case scenario, they are a slower ramp deck trying to get multiples of Cloudpost into play so they can hardcast Eldrazi like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. Routes of avenue to do that will be Primeval Titan Expedition Map Crop Rotation Vesuva to copy Cloudpost directly, they can also use Glimmerpost to slow you down gaining enough life. Worst case scenario, they are a combo deck that will Show and Tell one of those bombs into play early, & you won't be able to answer it with your Path to Exile if it's an Emrakul, as well Ulamog can destroy your white mana producing land, so as soon as you realize it's 12 post, make sure you get a second source of plains mana into the battlefield. Aside from those notes, they are not very disruptive in their blue, so just race them, get out your creatures and start swinging, make sure you hit them as hard as you can because their lifegain from Glimmerpost can actually stall you out decently when they keep getting one into play every single turn. Also obvious to note, if you're running Knight of the Reliquary & a couple Wastelands, this will give you an edge that "faster zoo" decks will not have against 12 post.
Post sideboard: Your options Pyroblast will only really be for opposing Show and Tells but, if they can't Show and Tell, it might take them a number of turns longer to drop their Emrakul, the Aeons Torn so it is worth it to bring them in, the other option would be to do something that works off of their Show and Tell's, like Oblivion Ring as an example. After that, they will likely bring in something for your creatures, stuff found in the 1st place San Diego list sideboard are: Elephant Grass The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale as a Crop Rotation target, Chalice of the Void can hurt against "faster zoo" decks that have most of their spells in converted mana cost 1 spells, so keep that possibility in mind if you're running Krosan Grip in your sideboard.

19) Junk/The Rock (Moderate playtesting recommended)
Pre sideboard: They will play early disruption, then try to finish you off with creatures. However their creatures are going to be more effective, Dark Confidant Knight of the Reliquary Scavenging Ooze(Mostly a 1 of as a Green Sun's Zenith target) Deathrite Shaman Tarmogoyf. Then the disruption itself in discard, & removal in Abrupt Decay Maelstrom Pulse & Swords to Plowshares. Kill them early, they are setup more for the mid-range and their creatures overall are going to be more effective than your own, especially if you're running "fast zoo", as far as "big zoo" then it will probably be a longer game 1. Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows will help you control the board some if you are running that setup as well.
Post sideboard: The will likely bring in more disruption in the form of more Maelstrom Pulse, & they might even play with Pernicious Deed in their sideboard, giving them a potential sweeper against your fast setup so drop creatures accordingly. After that, the gameplan is still largely the same, swing with your creatures and get them from 20 life to 0 before they can take control of the board state & turn the game in their favor, & as usual against most strategies, if that happens and they are low enough, you can just finish them off directly with burn for the win.

20) Zoo The mirror match! (Moderate playtesting recommended, however a less common match up)
Pre sideboard: If this actually happens, especially with Zoo currently being a lesser popular strategy in the format, it will depend on a few things. The game will likely go long so do everything you can to win game 1 because game 2 can just go to time and end with 1 & 1 draw in someone's favor. The one thing that will make a difference is if someone is running "fast zoo" and the other is running "big zoo", in that case, the "big zoo" deck will likely win, especially if it's running the Punishing Fire Grove of the Burnwillows setup, which at a minimum, will eat away 1 life from your life total every turn after taking the lifegain into account.
Post sideboard: Remember that anything you sideboard, they can sideboard too. Cards expected to see the most would be stuff for the long game against opposing creature decks like Umezawa's Jitte. As far as the gameplan goes, drop your creatures & try to keep control of the board state, use your burn accordingly, don't let their Knight of the Reliquary's get too big if they run them, but if you have them yourself, then you will match theirs at a minimum in the worst case scenario

[SpikeyMikey]

Eh. I mean, it's a fairly solid history of the deck over the last couple of years, but if you're trying to play traditional Zoo right now, you deserve every loss you get (and you'll get a lot!). I've been over it before in the main Zoo thread, but Kird Ape and Loam Lion are terrible. You should never play either, under any circumstances. You have no chance of beating combo with slow creatures like that and if you're giving up the combo matchup right out of the gates, why are you even paying the entry fee?

[Vandalize]

Eh. I mean, it's a fairly solid history of the deck over the last couple of years, but if you're trying to play traditional Zoo right now, you deserve every loss you get (and you'll get a lot!). I've been over it before in the main Zoo thread, but Kird Ape and Loam Lion are terrible. You should never play either, under any circumstances. You have no chance of beating combo with slow creatures like that and if you're giving up the combo matchup right out of the gates, why are you even paying the entry fee?

Agreed. Hidden Herd is doing work in my list, and it's much better than the 2/3 beaters.

For reference, my list:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Hidden Herd
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
3 Boros Charm
2 Sylvan Library
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

I've been testing Scavenging Ooze for a while, and I found it pretty good. We have a lot of burn maindeck, and Ooze can eat everything we kill (at a slower pace than Maverick), but it can grow to a 4/4 pretty fast, and it should be enough.

@feline: In the matchup analysis, you should also put a win-rate or whether is favourable or not. Something like this: Very Favourable, Favourable, Even, Unfavourable, Very Unfavourable.

[feline]

Well in defense of Zoo, I noted the more recent trends, which is a lean more toward Bigger Zoo with even Punishing Fire from many of the lists overseas in the past year, but being realistic, you are right on the fact that Zoo is just not cutting it in the end, even Maverick which was full of hate bears has been very lacking since Return to Ravnica Legacy.

[angel882]

Hi, first of all I apologize my English. It's not my native language. I have been playing Zoo for a long time but recently I have tried Big Zoo also. And for reason that the Big Zoo thread is quite dead I wanted to start some conversation here. For my experience I would say that if I had a tournament tomorrow and if I would like to play Zoo it would definitely be Big Zoo.

feline listed 20 match ups and against most of those decks Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire is a good strategy (it's good against aggro and control). The only MU where PF doesn't do much is combo. If you are playing aggro Zoo you have faster clock and small chance to race combos but usually (I'm not saying that you can't) this is unwinnable without hatecards.

One reason why I like Big Zoo over aggro Zoo is that usually when I'm playing against controls with aggro I run out of gas (and I play 2 Sylvan Library). With Big Zoo I have better late game thanks PF. And in mirror Big Zoo will kick aggro Zoo's ass.

I played 5 rounds in a local tournament and I went 5-0 with this list

Creatures [23]
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Wild Nacatl

Instants [12]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifacts [1]
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers [1]
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride

Lands [21]
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Wasteland
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

I have made few changes to my list after that tournament

- 1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride (didn't do much)
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte (move to SB)
- 1 Qasali Pridemage
- 1 Horizon Canopy
- 2 Noble Hierarch

+ 2 Kitchen Finks (I want to try this out)
+ 1 Scavenging Ooze
+ 1 Bayou/ 1 Scrubland
+ 2 Deathrite Shaman

I'm not quite sure how that Deathrite Shaman would work. It's awesome card and I would like to give him a try.

Any comments and thoughts??

[feline]

Creatures [23]
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Wild Nacatl

Instants [12]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifacts [1]
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library

Planeswalkers [1]
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride

Lands [21]
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Wasteland
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

I have made few changes to my list after that tournament

- 1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride (didn't do much)
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte (move to SB)
- 1 Qasali Pridemage
- 1 Horizon Canopy
- 2 Noble Hierarch

+ 2 Kitchen Finks (I want to try this out)
+ 1 Scavenging Ooze
+ 1 Bayou/ 1 Scrubland
+ 2 Deathrite Shaman

I'm not quite sure how that Deathrite Shaman would work. It's awesome card and I would like to give him a try.

Any comments and thoughts??

I would pass on adding deathrite shaman or really a 4th color, it's been done with blue & black in the past but it's just stretching resources, I think the reason why splashing blue has been more popular between the 2 splashes possible, is because noble hierarch also taps for blue. Against this though, there was a single Dark Zoo list that was pushing for Dark Confidants & had Duress/Thoughtseize, the one list noted above, which does give proper disruption as well as card advantage, but again that is 1 list at all that has actually performed that high over the past couple years.

As far as fast zoo - vs - Big Zoo, Big Zoo is what to push between the 2, with access to Punishing Fire / Grove of the Burnwillows, this setup has even been seeing some play again in some Jund lists, as it does work against many creature based strategies at a minimum. The biggest issue, fast zoo or big zoo, is the combo match ups, so you'd probably want to have some access to some sort of disruption, & since Green/White/Red really only offer hate bears, you'd have to go with things like Gaddock Teeg Qasali Pridemage Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, which then makes you more like a Big Zoo Maverick deck, & Maverick has been on the decline on top of Zoo being out of the loop for some time now.

Every time I went over my Zoo list it turned into Big Zoo & I felt it was necessary to run some amount of hate bears, 3-4 Thalia, 2-3 Qasali Pridemage, 2 Gaddock Teeg. With the trends I would lean toward Punishing Fire as well, but after that, the biggest issue still becomes combo match ups, even with Mindbreak Trap, & in the specific combo match up Show and Tell the Trap will never be sided in. As far as control match ups go, the biggest issue would be Terminus & friends, in which has been in part the reason for the decline of Maverick, though if you resolve a Gaddock Teeg against miracle control, they have to Swords to Plowshares it, so in order to protect it there you'd probably want access to Mother of Runes but that is one specific match up out of a potential dozens that is Legacy.

Forgive me if I am rambling a bit, in the end it just means that between fast zoo & big zoo, go with big zoo for sure, & I would seriously consider pushing Punishing Fire as well, though that was already noted. Beyond that, combo will still be a whole archetype that you will have the hardest issues dealing with.

[feline]

Update, Apr-1st-2013
2 new decks added from: Mar-16th, LCL 2013, Marzo, from The council. A fast zoo & a big zoo that both made top 8 out of 106 players.

"Fast Zoo" 2nd place http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10423&iddeck=76017
Creatures [24]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
Instants [10]
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
Sorceries [4]
4 Chain Lightning
Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library
Lands [20]
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard[15]
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ancient Grudge
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Umezawa's Jitte

"Big Zoo" 8 place http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10423&iddeck=76023
Creatures [19]
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Wild Nacatl
Instants [12]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [4]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library
Planeswalkers [2]
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Lands [21]
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Wasteland
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard [15]
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Choke
1 Crop Rotation
3 Pyroblast
1 Tormod's Crypt

[aluisiocsantos]

Update, Apr-1st-2013
2 new decks added from: Mar-16th, LCL 2013, Marzo, from The council. A fast zoo & a big zoo that both made top 8 out of 106 players.

"Fast Zoo" 2nd place http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10423&iddeck=76017
Creatures [24]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
Instants [10]
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
Sorceries [4]
4 Chain Lightning
Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library
Lands [20]
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard[15]
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ancient Grudge
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Umezawa's Jitte



Might try playing with this list this weekend. Been wanting to try out the Hidden Herd tech though, maybe replacing Loam Lions?

Also since I'm building a jund (but lack a few keys cards to start playing) my brother sugested running a single Bayou/Badlands (and then swapping Scalding Tarns for RB/BG fecth land) and running a couple Abrupt Decays on the sideboard (probably not running Jittes, comparing to the list above, since i don't even own one lol), aimed at UW, Canadian and decks with BG, specially BUG. What do you guys think?

[Tammit67]

Update, Apr-1st-2013
2 new decks added from: Mar-16th, LCL 2013, Marzo, from The council. A fast zoo & a big zoo that both made top 8 out of 106 players.

"Fast Zoo" 2nd place http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=10423&iddeck=76017
[cards]Creatures [24]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion


Lion/ape/guide are fine and all, but I can't help thinking experiment one is good.

[SpikeyMikey]

Lion/ape/guide are fine and all, but I can't help thinking experiment one is good.

It's not. And frankly, Lion and Ape are not good enough to play either.

Your damage output sucks with Lion and Ape. Experiment is generally going to be about as good as Ape - sometimes worse, but almost never better.

Triple Nacatl is 0/3/12/21
Double Nacatl and a Guide is 0/5/13/21
Nacatl and Double Guide is 0/7/14/21
Triple Guide is 2/8/14/20

Those are all still turn 4 goldfishes, with no burn supplement required. Now look at Ape/Lion outputs

Double Nacatl and a bad card 0/3/11/19/27
Nacatl and double bad card 0/3/10/17/24
Triple bad card 0/2/8/14/20

Note that those are all turn 5 goldfishes.

Additionally, 13/14 life means your opponent is in burn range (on turn 3 up top, turn 4 for Lion/Ape), so some number of hands are going to be turn 3 winnable, which is absolutely necessary in Legacy today, because that's the outside amount of time that any combo deck is ever going to give you without counters or discard. There's no reason not to run Hidden Herd and no reason to run Kird Ape or Loam Lion.

[aluisiocsantos]

I just noticed the list I just posted in my last post (who won 2nd place) runs no basic lands at all! I find the idea at the same time terrifying and also maybe worth trying. He runs what, 14 fetch lands, and all of the duals are R ones so he probably can leave the fetch lands standing around and searching whenever he needs to, in order to prevent wastelanding Nacatl. What do you think about it?

My list ended up like this:

Creatures [22]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hidden Herd
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Instants [12]
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Boros Charm (I think this is useful vs mass destruction effects such as Supreme Veredict and P. Deed, plus some extra damage)

Sorceries [4]
4 Chain Lightning

Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library

Lands [20]
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Badlands
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
4 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard[15]
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Karakas
1 Seal of Cleansing


I was a bit tempted to run Thalias over Mindbreak Trap in the sideboard, but then I remembered Storm decks are at large in the current meta, and it would suck to lose with Thalia in hand and he comboes in turn 1. Also, maybe 4 Mindbreaks should be the correct number.

Hoping to play with this tomorrow, so I'll come back with the results.

[SpikeyMikey]

I just noticed the list I just posted in my last post (who won 2nd place) runs no basic lands at all! I find the idea at the same time terrifying and also maybe worth trying. He runs what, 14 fetch lands, and all of the duals are R ones so he probably can leave the fetch lands standing around and searching whenever he needs to, in order to prevent wastelanding Nacatl. What do you think about it?


I run 12 fetches and 8 duals, 4 Taiga, 3 Plateau and 1 Savannah. Red is definitely the most important color in this deck, but I like having 1 Savannah around. I cut it from 3/3/2 because there are definitely times where I'm pulling my hair out at having Savannah instead of something that makes red mana, but there are also times when I really WANT to fetch up Savannah and it's a nice 3rd land to fetch for to ensure no single Wasteland will cut you off from a color.

Honestly, not having any basics just means you can't use PoP as effectively. Anyone trying to Waste you is going to be sad that they did when they realize that they're spending a turn Time Walking themselves.

[Esper3k]

I run 12 fetches and 8 duals, 4 Taiga, 3 Plateau and 1 Savannah. Red is definitely the most important color in this deck, but I like having 1 Savannah around. I cut it from 3/3/2 because there are definitely times where I'm pulling my hair out at having Savannah instead of something that makes red mana, but there are also times when I really WANT to fetch up Savannah and it's a nice 3rd land to fetch for to ensure no single Wasteland will cut you off from a color.

Honestly, not having any basics just means you can't use PoP as effectively. Anyone trying to Waste you is going to be sad that they did when they realize that they're spending a turn Time Walking themselves.

I disagree that not having any basics means we can't use PoP well. How often is it that you and your opponent are both low on life and PoP kills you too?

Imo, if we are in that situation, we've probably already lost anyways. I find myself normally up way up on life and use PoP as a haymaker to finish them off. If it hurts me too, who cares?

[SpikeyMikey]

I disagree that not having any basics means we can't use PoP well. How often is it that you and your opponent are both low on life and PoP kills you too?

Imo, if we are in that situation, we've probably already lost anyways. I find myself normally up way up on life and use PoP as a haymaker to finish them off. If it hurts me too, who cares?

Well, that's why I said as effectively. You can still run it, although at this point, I'm a bigger fan of Boros Charm.

As an aside, I cut the Flame Rifts from my build and replaced them with a pair of Forked Bolts. It just felt a little weak sometimes only having 8 burn spells that could go to creatures instead of to the dome. Stoneblade is the biggest chunk of the metagame and having a little bit of anti-Lingering Souls main seems reasonable. No point in giving them time to develop. Additionally, it's fun to be able to yell out "I'LL EAT YOUR SOULS!!" when you cast it.

[angel882]

@SpikeyMikey: Forked Bolt seems interesting and I'm really interested to hear how it works. I'm not sure if I can fit it on my MD but will try it out on SB.

Atm I'm planning this kind of list

Creatures [24]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hidden Herd
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
4*Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Instants [11]
2*Fireblast
4*Lightning Bolt
3*Path to Exile
2 Boros Charm

Sorceries [4]
4 Chain Lightning

Enchantments [2]
2*Sylvan Library

Lands [19]
3 Plateau
4 Taiga
1 Savannah
4*Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept heath

Sideboard:
3 Oblivion Ring
2*Qasali Pridemage
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyroblast
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Forked Bolt

[SpikeyMikey]

Well, Forked Bolt eats DRS, Stoneforge, half a Lingering Souls or a Delver. It's rarely dead. With Flame Rift, and this never came up but I could see it coming up, a single fetch means an Emrakul is lethal. It's game anyway 90% of the time but I could see a Sneak Attack Emmy with nothing to follow it up, giving you a few turns to recover and find some burn and lands. It's corner case stuff to be sure but I didn't mind making the switch anyway.

[aluisiocsantos]

Played a small tourney with friends today, 12 players, did 2-2 with the current list:

Creatures [22]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hidden Herd
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Instants [12]
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Boros Charm

Sorceries [4]
4 Chain Lightning

Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library

Lands [20]
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Badlands
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
4 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard[15]
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Karakas
1 Seal of Cleansing

Round 1: UB Reanimator.
G1: He starts out putting Elesh Norn on graveyard, I start out with Goblin Guide and turn two, Hidden Herd. In his turn he reanimates it Elesh, killing the Goblin, while in my turn I try to Path of Exile it, but it gets dazed. I have 2 burns in my hand and eventually I burn it up when yet another one comes up, but by then I have 1 hp ad the Herd never transformed. Eventually he uses Animate Dead on Iona, and for whatever reason targets it for Green color, which was unfortunate as my next draw is a Qasali Pridemage. Loss.
As I start boarding I notice I didn't include any graveyard hate, though I honestly don't think that matters too much in this match up. I board in Karakas, REB/Pyroblasts and Oblivion Ring. Board out Lavamancers.
G2: I have a very good hand with guide, a couple burn spells, path to exile and REB, except I have only one Plateau. He promptly reanimates Jin Gitaxias, I don't draw a second land, but I try landing a Path to Exile, but it gets dazed.. then I lose my hand. I still try playing a little longer in hopes of a Karakas but that doesn't show up either. Loss.
0-1

Round 2: Jund DARK DEPTHS
G1: I don't remember much of this match except that Hidden Herd was awesome at turn 1, dude wastelands me which means we start the game with me having a 3/3 beater and attacking ;). I have a bajillion burn spells and even he playing a lot of creatures they arent enough. Win.
I side in Oblivion Ring and Abrupt Decays, waiting for more resistence and potentially Tarmogoyfs, but turns out his major beater was another thing entirely.
G2: I don't rmemeber the beginning but I had a nice hand with creatures, lands, O.Ring and Path. By turn 3 he plays the Dark Depth combo, but luckily he doesn't discard me and he loses his giant cthulhu monster to Path to Exile. Win.

Round 3: Goblins.
G1: I start really well, though Lavamancer never saw the light of the day, dying to tarfire I think, as soon as he gets on play. I level him to 1 HP but he has a lot of mana, and Vial at 4. Without removal I get hit by Lackey a couple times, and by now he has some goblins in play, he plays the Haste commander goblin and puts in play Piledriver and several tokens which results in taking me from 19 to -3 hp. Loss.
I side in Decays and Seal of Cleasing, side out the Guides.
G2: I mulligan to 5, which was an incredibly good hand for 5 cards, but it didn't get the breathing power for a longer match such as Goblins. I end up swallowed. Loss.

Round 4: Merfolk
G1: Taiga, Herd, Go. He plays Island, plays Vial. Ok, this is Merfolk! I have a bajillion removals and the beaters do their job. Win.
Side in: Decays and REB/Pyroblast. Sideout: Can't really remmeber. I think I took out Herds because he never played non-basics, though it's known Marfolk plays mutavaults and wastelands.
G2: It's a longer match and he plays more Lords than I can count, but I'm very lucky to have 2 lavamancers in game. Eventually he turns the tide with a Jitte, and cleans up my table of Guide (blocked to kill his critter) and two lavamancers from the Jitte tokens, but to my luck I draw an Abrupt Decay and destroy it. He only has one Lord in game and vial at 2. I'm lucky again to draw a Tarmogoyf, who lands in table as a 6/7 beater (creatures, instants, sorceries, artifacts, tribal spells and land) and he gives up. Win.

Overall I think it worked very well, as the only times I went really bad was out of luck (no lands or mulliging to 5 and lakcing staying power later).
SLOPS: Wasn't able to try out Boros Charm. The only time it was in my hand was in hands I ended up taking a mulligan.

[ceustice]

All zoo needs is Burning-Tree Emissary, because emissary into kitty and gorilla is sort of insane.
So I read this comment the other day on Salvation, and I don't Know if its just that simple. Emissary can add to some very explosive turn 2s, but I'm not sure if that fixes the plethora of problems this deck faces right now.

T1 Wild Nactl
T2 Emissary ->Goblin Guide/Wild Nactl (Swing for 5)
T3 {(Swing for 10) 15 Damage total} Putting them in Finish them off burn range on T3.
Is one heck of a wall to face down.

Edit. I may have convinced myself while writing this that BTE is playable.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Zoo isn't really that good right now, but if you do decide to play the deck, you should definitely be playing Hidden Herd... It's so much better than the 2/3's!

[angel882]

So I read this comment the other day on Salvation, and I don't Know if its just that simple. Emissary can add to some very explosive turn 2s, but I'm not sure if that fixes the plethora of problems this deck faces right now.

T1 Wild Nactl
T2 Emissary ->Goblin Guide/Wild Nactl (Swing for 5)
T3 {(Swing for 10) 15 Damage total} Putting them in Finish them off burn range on T3.
Is one heck of a wall to face down.

Edit. I may have convinced myself while writing this that BTE is playable.

A friend of mine tried out BTE on list where he also played Experiment One. The list played

4 Nacatl
4 Vexing Devil
4 Experiment One
4 Kird Ape
4 BTE
4 Tarmo

17 other spell
19 lands


on this list Devil is more than 4 dmg to opp cause it also ups Experiment One. That's why he played Apes cause

T1: EO
T2: BTE -> Ape & Devil -> swing 4 with EO
T3: you have 12 power on the table.

but I think Guide could be better cause with Guide you could swing 5 on T2 and still have 11 power on T3.

[SpikeyMikey]

For an aggro deck, kill speed is determined by two bottlenecks, mana and cards. If you started with your whole deck in your hand, obviiusly the way to go would be 4 Petal, 4 SSG, 8 bolts. But on the play, a turn 3 kill has to be done with 9 cards. That's an average of just over 2 per card. Adjusting for 2 lands, you need just under 3 per card. 3 lands you need just over 3 per card. BTE is merely 2 on turn 3. While it alleviates mana bottlenecking to an extent, you'd need a very magical Christmasland indeed for it to be better than any other card in the deck. Goblin Guide is tiny but he is acceptable because he represents 6 on turn 3. That's Nacatl/Herd territory, justifying such a fragile and otherwise bad creature.

[SpikeyMikey]

So I'm debating a little on board slots for Milwaukee. Currently, the decklist is:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Hidden Herd
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vexing Devil
3 Qasali Pridemage

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Boros Charm
2 Reckless Charge
2 Forked Bolt
2 Fireblast

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah

SB

3 Rest in Peace
2 Silence
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Stony Silence
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Krosan Grip
1 Umezawa's Jitte

I'm debating a few things. I almost feel like I want a second Jitte for tribal decks. Goblins and Elves, mostly. wouldn't hurt against Maverick either, though. I don't actually have that much creature burn. 10 removal spells, 4 Bolt, 4 Chain, 2 Forked Bolt. That's light compared to traditional Zoo with PtE and Helix. Not sure where I'd fit it, however. I could cut Grip, I suppose, but I want a way to deal with the RiP/Energy Field out of Miracles and 3 Pridemage is being a little greedy. Stony obviously helps shut down SDT and Helm, but Energy Field can come down fast and I need some way to interact with it. Vortex is pretty necessary vs. Stoneblade; I don't want them using their Jitte or Batterskull to gain a ton of life. If I negate the lifegain, I can just burn them out. Stony is good vs. Miracles and Storm, shutting off Artifact mana (much like CotV, except with broader applications, Affinity, MUD, etc.). REB I suppose could go, as it's really not that great right now. It's not a broad hoser and it doesn't deal with any massive problems. It is nice to have vs. combo though as it's very flexible and useful against most everything.

The other thought was possibly replacing an Oblivion Ring to make room for the 3rd Reckless Charge in the side. Charge is only good vs. combo, but it's so important there - as important as Fireblast and maybe more so, since SnT runs Misdirection and Charge is a Bolt+ that can't be MisD'd. Silence is also pretty amazing vs. combo and I wouldn't mind having a 3rd one. How good is Oblivion Ring vs. SnT now that they have Griselbrand anyway? Maybe I can just cut the 2 REBs and run +1 Reckless Charge and +1 Umezawa's Jitte. It shouldn't make any difference in my decision process but I kind of don't want to cut my pretty Beta REB. $1500 fashion show, I know, but man, it's asexy REB.

[feline]

Ooh that is a very aggressive strategy, I like that. The weakest is probably forked bolt, but I assume it's in there because it can 2 for 1 which means it's actually fine as long as you 2 for 1 suckers all day, I also like the reckless charge, I did that off and on as it was a haste, +3, & had the flashback that allowed it to push even further.

Also, so many 1 drops with 3 power seems totally awesome, what would be left Delver of Secrets and that's it? Although that's blue. That'd be awesome if you got turn 3/4 kills all day, pushing the fastest zoo archetype of zoo itself yet!

If you wanted to squeeze in more spells, you could go down to 4/4/4 fetchland, 1/1/1 basic & 1/1/1 dual, but that would be really pushing it. At the same time however, when THAT MUCH of your deck costs 1, and almost nothing costs 3 (Except for the flashback cost of 2 spells, being reckless charge) I always want to get away with squeezing in another spell if I can convince myself, though I'm also sorta crazy.

[nedleeds]

Electrickery is pretty boss versus Elves, Goblins, Tokens and even fringe stuff like Death and Taxes. You can also just Zap bob if you have to.

[SpikeyMikey]

Originally, the Forked Bolts were Flame Rifts. However, in order to push extra damage through, it was important to be able to have an answer to Lingering Souls and I wanted more targeted removal against irritants like Stoneforge Mystic and Deathrite Shaman - the deck doesn't run PtE or Helix, so I was sitting on 8 spells that could actually go to creatures. 10 is a little more comfortable. Ounce of prevention/pound of cure, etc.

Reckless Charge really shines in the combo matchups where they don't have any removal. I don't like it nearly as much in any other matchup, but the fact that it's a better bolt that can't be Misdirected against SnT means that I'm that much more likely to be able to race their turn 2 or turn 3 Griselbrand, at least if I'm on the play. On the draw, it's likely not happening without board cards.

@Feline: I was actually running a blue version with Delver last year. You gain a lot, having 12 3-power 1-drops. However, while still incredibly fast, it was a little slower than this version. Brainstorm and Ponder are great for smoothing draws and flipping Delvers, but you lose the raw speed of Goblin Guide and Vexing Devil.

For reference, that list was:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Hidden Herd
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix
2 Fire/Ice

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island


Sideboard

3 Spell Pierce
3 Rest in Peace
3 Krosan Grip
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Stony Silence
2 Sulfuric Vortex

I had a little discussion about the deck in the old Zoo thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12624-Deck-Zoo&p=701338&viewfull=1#post701338).

I think you could make that version more aggressive; swapping the 2nd Trop for a 2nd Volc, adding Guide or Devil in place of a Helix and the Pridemages and the Scavenging Ooze and replacing the other 2 Helixes with Fireblast. Something along those lines, anyway. It leaves you with very little in the way of reactive ability, but you still get counters out of board and honestly, just by running blue, you're going to put people in a position where they assume you have answers, so they're not going to go for risky plays unless they're in a position where they have no other choice. Honestly, if you wanted, you could probably just cut the Tarmogoyfs for Goblin Guides and go all in on the 1-drop plan, keeping your burn and the Pridemages and Ooze. You're really unhappy about Countertop at that point, but outside of Miracles and RUG board, you never see Counterbalance anyway and Chalice for 1 is your ass, but Tezz Control and MUD are pretty rare sights at major Legacy tournaments.

In any case, while I think there's still room to explore with the blue Zoo, Brainstorm and Ponder are always going to make your mana bottleneck worse. They add stability and consistency, but they cost you speed. You're just not as likely to hit that turn 3 kill if you're casting Brainstorm on turn 2. I'm not saying that Naya is necessarily better, per se, but for the SCG in Milwaukee, where I expect combo to be effing everywhere, speed is the key to victory.

[ESG]

The other thought was possibly replacing an Oblivion Ring to make room for the 3rd Reckless Charge in the side. Charge is only good vs. combo, but it's so important there - as important as Fireblast and maybe more so, since SnT runs Misdirection and Charge is a Bolt+ that can't be MisD'd. Silence is also pretty amazing vs. combo and I wouldn't mind having a 3rd one. How good is Oblivion Ring vs. SnT now that they have Griselbrand anyway? Maybe I can just cut the 2 REBs and run +1 Reckless Charge and +1 Umezawa's Jitte. It shouldn't make any difference in my decision process but I kind of don't want to cut my pretty Beta REB. $1500 fashion show, I know, but man, it's asexy REB.

If I was running this deck and was concerned about SNT, I'd go with Silence, and I would use it aggressively. I like it better than REB. Silence also is better than REB in the other combo matchups you're likely to face. Other options would be to max out on O. Ring and hope they race with Show and Tell rather than Sneak Attack, or you could not SB for the matchup and just hope to ride to victory on your speed and consistency. How have you been preboard? If I'm an SNT player and I crush a Zoo player Game 1, I'm probably going to assume Game 2 will go similarly. I don't think SNT decks have anything to board in for the matchup unless they have Blood Moon. I also like Jitte a lot for most other matchups and would run one or maybe two.

[SpikeyMikey]

If I was running this deck and was concerned about SNT, I'd go with Silence, and I would use it aggressively. I like it better than REB. Silence also is better than REB in the other combo matchups you're likely to face. Other options would be to max out on O. Ring and hope they race with Show and Tell rather than Sneak Attack, or you could not SB for the matchup and just hope to ride to victory on your speed and consistency. How have you been preboard? If I'm an SNT player and I crush a Zoo player Game 1, I'm probably going to assume Game 2 will go similarly. I don't think SNT decks have anything to board in for the matchup unless they have Blood Moon. I also like Jitte a lot for most other matchups and would run one or maybe two.

I agree with the Silence vs. REB. Silence is Time Walk, REB is Counterspell. Both are good, but taking an extra turn is definitely better.

The matchup vs. SnT is almost entirely reliant on what the SnT player draws. I've got a reasonably consistent turn 3 goldfish, but that would be assuming they don't have Force/Misdirection for a burn spell. That's part of the reason I like Reckless Charge in that matchup so much, it gives you so much extra damage and they can't Misdirect it to remove one of your beaters. So if they have the turn 1 nut draw, I'm boned. Turn 2, if I'm on the play, on the right kind of hand, I can squeak by either Emrakul or Griselbrand. Turn 3 on the play I'm probably fine; if I haven't already killed them, I should be able to untap and burn them out. Obviously, being on the draw is pretty devastating as you're a turn slower every time. Then I need a nut draw AND for them to have a slowish hand.

In either case, I definitely want to board against them. I mean, this is about as fast as Zoo can get, but it's still not "I'm going to combo your face" fast. When I tested, I never had more than 3 turns before my opponent comboed out, so anything that disrupts them, even for a turn, is good. That is the one upside to O Ring and REB; they can represent more than a turn's worth of disruption, whereas Silence is always a turn, but only a turn. But I think you're right. Consistency is the watchword. 3rd Silence it is. Maybe cut the Krosan Grip for Jitte #2? I'll still have 5 answers to Energy Field and Counterbalance postboard. It's not as good as 6, but it's workable.

[ESG]

Cool. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

[Strassbaw]

I've been playing Burning-Tree emmisary in zoo in preparation for a tournament and I have tweaked the list to this so far:

Burning-Tree emissary 4
Goblin guide 4
Kird ape 4
Wild nacatl 4
Tarmagoyf 4
Thalia, guardian of thraben 3
Grim lavamancer 2
Scavenging ooze 2


Lightning bolt 4
Chain lightning 4
Path to exile 4
Sylvan library 2

Wooded foothills 4
Windswept Heath 4
Arid Mesa 4
Plateau 2
Savahanna 1
Taiga 2
Mountain 1
Forest 1


Side board:

Oblivian ring 3
Mindbreak trap 3
Quasli pridemage 3
Grim lavamancer 2
Gaddock teeg 3
Umezawa's jitte 1



So far I've done pretty well in play tests against a variety of decks. Debating on running Krosen grip to beat counterbalance and maybe more ooze to disrupt combo. Only 7 cards main deck that have white mana costs helps burning-tree go off more frequently. In the event of burning-tree + thilia in hand turn 2,playing Thalia first is a choice that would depend on the deck of the opponent. I think burning tree is more effective than loam lion when you can run many red or green cards that are nearly identical. I'd appreciate some feedback.

[SpikeyMikey]

Cool. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Poorly. :P

20 minutes before the tournament, I panicked, decided that I wasn't comfortable not running counterspells, added blue to the deck and wrote out a new deck reg sheet during the announcements. Since I had about 6 minutes to build before announcements (and sleeve up), I just started throwing things together. The result, as you can imagine, was that the deck was wrong. I ended up going 5-4. I should've just played the straight Naya Zoo list that I've had more or less nailed down for 3 weeks, outside of minor board tweaks.

Standard went much better. My record was only 6-4, but all 4 of my losses in Standard were 1-2 and of my 5 real wins (round 9 opponent never showed up), 4 were 2-0's. So the deck was absolutely correct and I think actually pretty well built - which is impressive given how few fucks I give about Standard - I just simply didn't pilot it well enough.

[Mr. Safety]

I've been tinkering with some 'free stuff' strategy with blue-splashed zoo:

Bloodbraid elf
Shardless agent
Burning-tree emissary
Violent outburst

These being the fuel to do some tricky plays with boom/bust. Just a goofy idea, but potentially explosive with a free Armageddon off a cascade spell.

[Kuyira]

Last weekend I was at GP Strassbourg in France and went 5-4 after nine rounds, with 0 byes but starting out with 4-1 (incl wins against Sneak Show and TES).

This was my list:

20 Land:
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
3 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

29 Creatures:
2 Granger Guildmage
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Loxodon Smiter

11 Spells:
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile

Sideboard: (15)
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Fearie Macabre
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Path to Exile
2 Krosan Grip

Choices:
Thalia: she's just an all-star against many decks in the field, RUG, BUG, Esper lists and all combo decks. She stole me a game 1 on the play against TES after which I sealed game 2 by countering his only ponder while applying pressure with 1 Nacatl and several burn spells.
Granger Guildmage: he's just awesome against Goblins, Elves, Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls, Delver of Secrets. I play it because I don't want to use 2-mana costing non-creatures due to Thalia.
Loxodon Smiter: the best card I played this weekend. Hymn to Tourach was going to be an extremely popular card with all the BUG, Jund and Junk lists. I even played against an Esper deck without Force of Will but with Hymn to Tourach. Where Knight of the Reliquary would have been countered, this guy sticks. Where Knight of the Reliquary would have been discarded by a Hymn to Tourach, this guy won me games by getting a 4/4 non- lightning boltable creature in play. Plus not needing to play around Daze is pretty good.

Sideboard:
4 hatebears extra against combo, after sideboard, is pretty good. So far it has proven to win games and sometimes even matches. I dislike Mindbreak Trap due to Duress being played a lot by the storm decks.

the one thing I did wrong this weekend was the boarding against Jund. I obviously should have boarded graveyard hate (the 2 Tormod's Crypts) against the 2 Jund matchups I lost. For some odd reason I didn't and lost to punishing fire.

[aluisiocsantos]

That's one sweet list! While I just posted a list with a more sligh zoo, I always found more success with a slower, more consistent list with THALIA. As you pointed out yourself, she can single handedly win so much matches, though maybe, personally whenever I run Thalia, I prefer StP instead of PtExile, due to the sinergy with Thalia, like, if you plan to fuck up his mana, you dont give them lands. But I think thats my personal choice. (StP AND wastelands)

Love your choice of loxodon over reliquary, seems like one wise choice - no fear of graveyard wipeout, and he's just too great VS discard/control matches.

Also, maybe I think you should try running at least 1-2 Surgical Extractions, specially in matches that you lost, once you do it on a Punishing Fire, most of your problems are gone. Sometimes a grave swipe isn't just enough - and with Jund on the fray it's just even more effective now - though gotta say Faerie is great for being virtually uncounterable.

Other than that, excellent results, congratulations!

[Kuyira]

Thanks! I am very happy with the list as it is. Although your idea for surgical extraction is great (and I concidered it), I felt the Tormod's Crypt was better in the Jund matchups because it hurts their Deathrite Shaman too and I am playing Grim Lavamancer anyway to clear my own graveyard. Plus against Reanimator, a surgical extraction can still be Thoughtseize'd before they go off. The Tormod's crypt can wait in play.

The Fearie Macabre actually won me a game against Reanimator where I got my Scavenging Ooze Daze'd on the play (game 2) and then he played exhume turn 2, where I removed his blazing Archon. When the Ooze came in to play he had to pass the turn and found no out. The fact that it is uncounterable is really sweet. The reanimator player didn't expect me to use it because it is fairly bad against Dredge. On the other hand, a removed dredger in the upkeep, may stall long enough for me to win the game.

[Strassbaw]

In Kuyira's post, the card mindbreak trap was mentioned. I've been considering my options for combo decks in board and I'm wondering if running Leyline of Sanctity in Zoo is a better option than mindbreak trap against storm and Charbelcher. The list i posted above runs 3 thalia main deck and 3 gaddock teeg board and I'm concerned my board is over kill for those archetypes (With further inclusion of mindbreak trap and/or leyline of sancitity). Also, has anyone tested Gaddock teeg vs miracle/counterbalance decks? it seems like a smart option.

Ps. Burning-Tree Emissary in zoo play tests are continuing to go well.

[Kuyira]

Up front: with combo decks I mean any deck that uses more than a 2- or 3-card combo to go off. Sneak Show & Reanimator for example are not concidered combo decks in my explanation for cardchoices below.

Personally I find Mindbreak trap weak against any combo deck except Belcher, due to the silence & discard effects TES and ANT decks use. Plus against Elves I can't use the Mindbreak Trap either. The Ethersworn Canonists are more versatile, but slower and obviously not that great against Belcher, but still acceptable.
Leyline seems fine except against Elves and lists with Empty the Warrens. It's also nice against Abrupt Decay since that can't kill it, but usually ANT or TES have Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth to deal with it or TES/Charbelcher go off with Empty the Warrens. The deal with Leyline of Sanctity is you have to mulligan for it since it's a poor topdeck, obviously you have to mulligan for Ethersworn Canonist as well, but I prefer it's utility accross the field.

In the end Zoo wins from combo decks by sticking to it's own plan: putting a threat down T1 and T2, with in my opinion the threat in T2 preferably being a hatebear that stalls long enough for you to seal the game. Leyline doesn't aid in the beatdown plan Zoo has in the first place. Countering the odd brainstorm or ponder can be amazingly good as well, since they sometimes keep a hand due to having such a spell combined with a fetchland.

Gaddock Teeg against Miracles is cute, but they play Swords to Plowshares/Snapcaster Mage. The most horrible part is Counterbalance & Sensei's Divining Top combined with Brainstorm, not the Terminus. The Terminus only becomes horrible if they can time it, due to the Sensei's Divining Top. I think Pithing Needle on Sensei's Divining Top ruins their game a lot better (both equally good on the play and on the draw since you can cast it before they cast Counterbalance, assuming you have it in your starting hand).

I can't say much about Burning Tree Emissary because I haven't haven't played it in standard nor in legacy. Depending on the list it might be good. On the other hand, playing Loam Lion in the Burning Tree Emissary slot will give plays like: T1: 1 Ape, Nacatl or Loam Lion, T2: 2 of them. But T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Tarmogoyf or Sylvan Library is cute. T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Nacatl and Kird Ape seems fine. In the end the Burning Tree Emissary is just a 2/2. Even the Pridemage or Scavenging Ooze are way better than that. Thalia isn't possible to play with Burning Tree Emissary on turn 2. Is the acceleration worth the card and getting just an extra 2/2 out of it? I'm not sure.

[angel882]

Up front: with combo decks I mean any deck that uses more than a 2- or 3-card combo to go off. Sneak Show & Reanimator for example are not concidered combo decks in my explanation for cardchoices below.

Personally I find Mindbreak trap weak against any combo deck except Belcher, due to the silence & discard effects TES and ANT decks use. Plus against Elves I can't use the Mindbreak Trap either. The Ethersworn Canonists are more versatile, but slower and obviously not that great against Belcher, but still acceptable.
Leyline seems fine except against Elves and lists with Empty the Warrens. It's also nice against Abrupt Decay since that can't kill it, but usually ANT or TES have Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth to deal with it or TES/Charbelcher go off with Empty the Warrens. The deal with Leyline of Sanctity is you have to mulligan for it since it's a poor topdeck, obviously you have to mulligan for Ethersworn Canonist as well, but I prefer it's utility accross the field.

In the end Zoo wins from combo decks by sticking to it's own plan: putting a threat down T1 and T2, with in my opinion the threat in T2 preferably being a hatebear that stalls long enough for you to seal the game. Leyline doesn't aid in the beatdown plan Zoo has in the first place. Countering the odd brainstorm or ponder can be amazingly good as well, since they sometimes keep a hand due to having such a spell combined with a fetchland.

Gaddock Teeg against Miracles is cute, but they play Swords to Plowshares/Snapcaster Mage. The most horrible part is Counterbalance & Sensei's Divining Top combined with Brainstorm, not the Terminus. The Terminus only becomes horrible if they can time it, due to the Sensei's Divining Top. I think Pithing Needle on Sensei's Divining Top ruins their game a lot better (both equally good on the play and on the draw since you can cast it before they cast Counterbalance, assuming you have it in your starting hand).

I can't say much about Burning Tree Emissary because I haven't haven't played it in standard nor in legacy. Depending on the list it might be good. On the other hand, playing Loam Lion in the Burning Tree Emissary slot will give plays like: T1: 1 Ape, Nacatl or Loam Lion, T2: 2 of them. But T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Tarmogoyf or Sylvan Library is cute. T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Nacatl and Kird Ape seems fine. In the end the Burning Tree Emissary is just a 2/2. Even the Pridemage or Scavenging Ooze are way better than that. Thalia isn't possible to play with Burning Tree Emissary on turn 2. Is the acceleration worth the card and getting just an extra 2/2 out of it? I'm not sure.

You can't think BTE as a 2cc 2/2. You have to think it like a Frogmite -> 2 power for free.

[aluisiocsantos]

I think each response to storm has its nadvantages and disadvantages. ANT and belcher can combo turn 1. Which will means before you land a hatebear. In other hand, a hatebear is ahrder t odeal with rather than Mindbreak which can be silenced. Mindbreak can stop a turn one kill though, but it's discardable, silenceable and so on.

[SpikeyMikey]

You can't think BTE as a 2cc 2/2. You have to think it like a Frogmite -> 2 power for free.

Except I don't want Frogmite in Zoo. I don't have an equivalent to Ravager or Cranial Plating that makes running bad creatures worthwhile due to synergies.

On the note of bad creatures, I'm considering Goldmeadow Harrier as a 1 or 2 of. I feel like I'd get better utility out of it than I would other common options like Lavamancer or Granger Guildmage.

[Strassbaw]

Up front: with combo decks I mean any deck that uses more than a 2- or 3-card combo to go off. Sneak Show & Reanimator for example are not concidered combo decks in my explanation for cardchoices below.

Personally I find Mindbreak trap weak against any combo deck except Belcher, due to the silence & discard effects TES and ANT decks use. Plus against Elves I can't use the Mindbreak Trap either. The Ethersworn Canonists are more versatile, but slower and obviously not that great against Belcher, but still acceptable.
Leyline seems fine except against Elves and lists with Empty the Warrens. It's also nice against Abrupt Decay since that can't kill it, but usually ANT or TES have Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth to deal with it or TES/Charbelcher go off with Empty the Warrens. The deal with Leyline of Sanctity is you have to mulligan for it since it's a poor topdeck, obviously you have to mulligan for Ethersworn Canonist as well, but I prefer it's utility accross the field.

In the end Zoo wins from combo decks by sticking to it's own plan: putting a threat down T1 and T2, with in my opinion the threat in T2 preferably being a hatebear that stalls long enough for you to seal the game. Leyline doesn't aid in the beatdown plan Zoo has in the first place. Countering the odd brainstorm or ponder can be amazingly good as well, since they sometimes keep a hand due to having such a spell combined with a fetchland.

Gaddock Teeg against Miracles is cute, but they play Swords to Plowshares/Snapcaster Mage. The most horrible part is Counterbalance & Sensei's Divining Top combined with Brainstorm, not the Terminus. The Terminus only becomes horrible if they can time it, due to the Sensei's Divining Top. I think Pithing Needle on Sensei's Divining Top ruins their game a lot better (both equally good on the play and on the draw since you can cast it before they cast Counterbalance, assuming you have it in your starting hand).

I can't say much about Burning Tree Emissary because I haven't haven't played it in standard nor in legacy. Depending on the list it might be good. On the other hand, playing Loam Lion in the Burning Tree Emissary slot will give plays like: T1: 1 Ape, Nacatl or Loam Lion, T2: 2 of them. But T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Tarmogoyf or Sylvan Library is cute. T1: Ape or Nacatl, T2: Burning Tree Emissary + Nacatl and Kird Ape seems fine. In the end the Burning Tree Emissary is just a 2/2. Even the Pridemage or Scavenging Ooze are way better than that. Thalia isn't possible to play with Burning Tree Emissary on turn 2. Is the acceleration worth the card and getting just an extra 2/2 out of it? I'm not sure.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll post my results about BTE after my big tournament this weekend.

[Kuyira]

Please do so, I am looking forward to hear how it performed for you.

[Strassbaw]

Results from my BUrning-Tree Emissary (BTE) in Zoo for Philadelphia Area Legacy Championship at Redcap's Corner:

I went 4 wins and 2 losses in a 6 round Swiss placing 11th at the end of the Swiss rounds. Here is the list that I ran.

Burningn-Tree emissary 4
Goblin guide 4
Kird ape 4
Wild nacatl 4
Tarmagoyf 4
Thalia, guardian of thraben 3
Grim lavamancer 2
Scavenging ooze 2


Lightning bolt 4
Chain lightning 4
Path to exile 4
Sylvan library 2

Wooded foothills 4
Windswept Heath 4
Arid Mesa 4
Plateau 2
Savahanna 1
Taiga 2
Mountain 1
Forest 1


Side board:

Oblivian ring 3
Leyline of sanctity 4
Quasli pridemage 3
Grim lavamancer 2
Phyrexian revoker 2
Umezawa's jitte 1


BTE was inconsistent, but amazing when it went off. As the deck stands this current list does not support BTE very well. I think BTE is a good card, but maybe it's home is not in Zoo, at least in a time where Thalia and path/swords are likely choices to use within this archetype. In the event where more 1 mana green drops besides wild nacatl are good choices in zoo, (Maybe deathrite shaman or granger guildmage) BTE's ability will be hard to maximize. I had only 7 cards that required white mana, and cards like Lightning bolt and chain lightning are not cards that u always want to cast after I cast a BTE. I can't deny that BTE did win me a game or two, allowing me to outrace opponents with board position so I will continue to tinker with the card. I'd also like to mention that leyline of sanctity was an auto win against tendrils and I think it is the smarter card to use against the decks I've been seeing currently. Thalia, main deck was amazing as I thought she was going to be. 3 of her seemed just right. I think my next list for tournaments coming will exclude BTE and use whichever tech cards seem useful at the time. Thanks for your replies, if u wanna know details about the matches I played I'll post more later.

[Kuyira]

Congrats with the result, pretty nice. Could you list all the matchups you had? I understand Leyline of Sanctity being amazin against Tendrils, but did the deck have red for Empty the Warrens too?

[Strassbaw]

So here were the decks I played with the results of the match:

Round 1 (Board in leyline, board out sylvan libary and grim)
Burn 0-2 >.> (Non-lavamancer build, all basic lands with hell sparks and marauders)
Game 1: As a frequent burn player myself, I knew I was in trouble. I got blown out game 1, only 1 turn away from victory, however, Fireblast made it GG.
Game 2: I decided to board in my Leyline of sanctity, as a maverick player did against me when I played burn. I had a 4 mana no leyline hand that I mulled to 6 with, and the 6 card mul had no lands so I went down to 5. I kept my hand without a leyline, and I lost pretty bad. Maybe I should have kept my 7 or continued to mul until leyline of sanctity. Live and learn i suppose. Bad match up for me regardless.

Round 2 (boarded in leyline and revoker boarded out grim and path)
Tendrills (had some trops so I guess he played abrupt in board) 2-0
Game 1: This is a bad match up for me, however, thalia outrite won me game 1 as I won the dice roll and went first and he was unable to go off turn 1 or cause me to discard.
game 2: I boarded in Leyline, and he didn't know I had it. He boarded in natures ruin to deal with thalia, but he had nothing for Leyline in his 60 as he did not expect to encounter it.

Round 3:
Esper blade: 2-0 (boarded out BTE and Kird ape, Boarded in Revoker, pridemage, Jitte, and Grims)
game 1: I won the dice roll and BTE killed it for me game 1. I flooded the board with dorks turn 2 with an amazing 7 card hand. In this game especially I was glad to have the card, unlike round 1 where it was just a 2/2 as non of my hand supported the mana ability.
Game 2: Thalia + grimlava mancer online = B Skull Cant attack. I boarded out BTE as Pride mage needed to be in the deck. I drew all 3 of my pridemages and Jitte and that with the thalia + mancer made me win. I got really lucky this round.

Round 4:
Shardless bug 2-1 ((Board out goblin guide (brainstorm makes it less effective than kird IMO), board in revoker for Deathrite and grim))
Game 1: He beat me bad! brainstorm allowed him to cascade into draw 3 cards more than once. that 1/1 flying deathtouch draw a card also provided a great deal of card advantage. I missed REBS in this match! He simply won.
Game 2: I won, but he super misplayed allowing me to have a game 3. Grim won me the game and path to exile was amazing in this match!
Game 3: Path to exile was removal with no downside! I think BTE did something but i dont quite remember. Thalia was effective and so was grim lavamancer. The guy I played was good, but he made a big mistake allowing a game 3 to happen and it caused him to lose to match. Baleful strix really makes it hard to keep up with the deck in the later turns.

Round 5 Maverick with Black splash 1-2 (boarded out kirdape and guide, boarded in revoker and lava mancer and Jitte and pridemage as he played SFM)
game 1: STUPID STUPID STUPID!!! Been months sense I played Mav and I lightning bolted a SFM with an untapped mother in play... Moving on to game 2! (On a side note, sense Zoo is off the radar, my opponent thought I was running wastelands or price of progress and he fetched for basics. This allowed my path to exile to really do well as he did not have basics after he fetched.)
Game 2: Lava mancer and Path were really effective. Mother of ruin and deathrite are a pain to deal with and gave him the long term card advantage. Lucky for me sylvan libary came through and helped me win the game.
Game 3: Lava mancer and revoker were big players in this match, but temporally shutting down his primary threats did not stop his lingering souls with jitte helped him to win. I did not see that card coming. It was close but he played well and lingering souls was unexpected and hard to answer. This man made top 8 and that was the game determining that.

Round 6 2-1 punishing jund (board in revoker and grim and jitte, board out Kird and 1 guide)
Game 1: I won and BTE was useful here. I had a stong hand with BTE and he allowed me to play BTE into scavanging ooze which was pretty useful against the punfire.
Game 2: I lost a really close match but Bob gave him card advantage and he Nuked his own bob with pun fire to save him the game. Another match where path did not get my opponent basics.
Game 3: He misplayed at the end of the game allowing me to win. Grim hands down gave me the win, as he was able to kill the planes walker after he made me sac a guy and it also was strong against deathrite and other guys he played with. Revoker with BTE is good, but i'm still on the fence about BTE in the deck, atleast with thalia and path in the same deck with BTE.

I had a great time and I learned a lot. Against tendrills with a relativly rogue deck, I think people did not know what to expect when they sat across from me. This gave me an advantage where as when a player sees a rug deck, they watch out for the daze spell peirce and expect to see Rebs and submerges in the board. I felt like I had the advantage game 1, as people expect either waste or price and seen neither. Thanks for everyone's feedback and lets try to keep the dream alive. Tendrills came back from the dead and so did team America, and I feel like under the right conditions with the right board and timing, this fair deck has the options to be successful!

Thanks for reading!

[SpikeyMikey]

How to 0-3 drop like a baller:

Round 1: I'm not sure what my opponent is on, but given that we're playing in Madison, it's a fairly safe bet that it's combo. 7 cards is 4 lands, no 1-drops. We ship it back, as a grindy hand is not what I want vs. an unknown opponent. 6 cards is 1 land with some business. I'm not thrilled, but I figure that if I'm playing vs. combo, I need to keep it at hope to draw well; 5 is unlikely to have enough pressure to beat any combo deck. Instead, my opponent opens with a Deathrite Shaman. I make a Taiga with my fetch and Chain it. My opponent comes back with a Wasteland and I miss my second land drop. I do find the land the next turn, but he plays a Knight of the Reliquary and follows it up the next turn with another one. Unable to cope with 4 Wastelands and a clock, I scoop it up. G2, I keep a fairly reasonable hand of 3 lands and 4 spells. It's not fantastic, my 4 is Hidden Herd, Gideon's Lawkeeper, Forked Bolt and Fireblast. It's slow and crappy, but 3 lands in the opener seems reasonable considering my opponent has Wastelands and a relatively slow deck. Lawkeeper seems like it's some good against a deck that's certainly running KotR and probably running SFM --> Batterskull. This game is actually a little more interactive, but over the course of the 9 turns of the game, I draw 7 lands. My opponent sees 0 Wastelands, so I die on turn 9 having not missed a land drop and with another land still in my hand. My luck is obviously in today.

Round 2: I get paired against Brendan (TooClosetotheSun here on the Source) from the P-Ville crew. He's on Show and Tell. He also knows that I'm on Zoo. I win the die roll (woot!) and open with a Taiga and a Nacatl. He makes an Island and ships it. Turn 2, I draw into a Hidden Herd, so I drop a Goblin Guide, crack in for 5 and then drop the Herd, which he Forces. On his turn 2, he finds Griselbrand and plays a Tomb and throws the Show and Tell out there. He puts Grisellybear out there, I drop Gideon's Lawkeeper. I don't think I've ever seen his eyes get that big before. It was very satisfying. I draw for turn and simply ship it back to him. My plan is to tap his Griselbrand prior to combat and then win the next turn. On his turn, he attempts to draw 7 with Griselbrand. Now, I have Lightning Bolt and Fireblast in hand, so I have lethal. But if he has any counter, I'm in bad shape. If he has Misdirection, I probably just lose right there as I lose my tapper and have to race. So I let it go. He drops a 3rd land and a Petal and casts Sneak Attack, going to 4. Now that he's just drawn 7 cards, I figure he definitely has the counter and only the Fireblast is lethal, so I decide to let Griselbrand hit me. If I tap GB during Beginning of Combat and he has Emrakul (not unlikely with him having just short of a dozen cards in grip), I lose on the spot. I play a Vexing Devil and resolve to take 1 more turn of Griselbeats before I go for it with the burn. End of my turn, he makes Emrakul. Sweet, I made the right call! Beginning of the next combat step, I tap the Emrakul. He then Sneaks in another to legend rule it out and Sneaks in a 3rd, sealing the deal. It sucks, but hey, sometimes combo just wins. Game 2, I again open with turn 1 Taiga, Nacatl, go. He draws for turn, makes a Tomb and a Petal and Show and Tells Emrakul in. I do not have a tapper in hand this time, so I merely get a second Wild Nacatl. His hand, after the Show and Tell, is Force of Will, Force of Will, Force of Will, Ponder. Alright, 0-2. Inauspicious start, but eff it, I'm here to play and a 4-0 run from here could still T16 and money, if the breakers fall right. We're in wing and a prayer territory already.

Round 3: I get paired against a local guy. I'm not sure what he's on, but I figure that at 0-2, this should at least be an easier round. He wins the die roll and opens with Volcanic Island. I figure Show and Tell again, but I've got a pretty solid aggressive hand; I have 4 1 drop critters and some burn, so it's a turn 3 kill, unmolested. That's reasonable, even against SnT. I make a land and a guy. I do this for the next 3 turns. For the next 3 turns, he Bolts my guy and Wastes my land. Eventually, deciding that Wasteland/Lightning Bolt is not getting there, his deck throws up 3 straight Tarmogoyfs. With Hidden Herd in the yard (and a Sylvan Library that was Dazed), Tarmogoyf is a 5/6. 3 of them is more than I can handle. Game 2 opens with more of the kill your guy, waste your land theme, but this time he only sees 1 Tarmogoyf. I'm a little stunted on mana, thanks to a pair of Wastelands and a pair of Stifles. I'm stuck at 2, but land a Rest in Peace, making Tarmogoyf a permanent 0/1 and Nimble Mongoose into a 1/1 with shroud. He scoops it up. We've finally won a game, after 5 straight losses. Game 3 I get a little heavy on the burn and he gets a pair of Tarmogoyfs. This time, he has the Force of Will for Rest in Peace and the game devolves into a race. I burn him to 7 with him tapped out and cardless. I've got 5 on the table and am also in topdeck mode. I hope to draw Bolt/Chain/Boros Charm/Forked Bolt/Goblin Guide/Rest in Peace/Fireblast. Instead, I draw Arid Mesa. But hey, it's a nice day out, and that seems like an excellent reason to call it a day and go enjoy it.

So despite having a list that I'm very comfortable with and fairly reasonable hands for the most part, I scrubbed and I scrubbed hard. But since it's a list that I'm very comfortable with, I'm sharing it anyway. May you all have better luck with it than I did. I'm taking the hint and brewing up either a Thopters list or going back to Bant. For now, I'm just going to focus on Standard, since it's PTQ season and I've got a list that likes me for that format.

All in Zoo

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Hidden Herd
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vexing Devil
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gideon's Lawkeeper
1 Goldmeadow Harrier
1 Scavenging Ooze

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Forked Bolt
2 Boros Charm
2 Fireblast
1 Reckless Charge

1 Sylvan Library

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah

Sideboard

3 Rest in Peace
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Silence
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Gideon's Lawkeeper
1 Stony Silence
1 Krosan Grip

Despite the fact that I never got any mileage out of it, I like Gideon's Lawkeeper/Goldmeadow Harrier (the store had a 1/1 split of the cards in foil, so that's why I split the main). It's very solid - at least, in theory - vs. Sneak and Show and it's not bad elsewhere. Tapping an equipped creature or a Batterskull is not terrible and tapping an opposing Tarmogoyf or other sizeable blocker is legit as well. It's a little more mana intensive than PtE and it won't stop something like DRS the way Path would, but DRS is far less scary for me than Emrakul or Griselbrand. Despite running essentially 5 Tarmogoyf, I only saw 1 across 3 rounds. Of course, I like getting 1-drop heavy hands; they're much faster and push the lines of what I want to be doing better, but Tarmogoyf is kind of necessary if the matchup gets to a grindy point. I think that was just a matter of luck - I don't think it needs any more Oozes to supplement the 'goyf count.

[Kuyira]

So here were the decks I played with the results of the match:

Round 2 (boarded in leyline and revoker boarded out grim and path)
Tendrills (had some trops so I guess he played abrupt in board) 2-0
Game 1: This is a bad match up for me, however, thalia outrite won me game 1 as I won the dice roll and went first and he was unable to go off turn 1 or cause me to discard.
game 2: I boarded in Leyline, and he didn't know I had it. He boarded in natures ruin to deal with thalia, but he had nothing for Leyline in his 60 as he did not expect to encounter it.



First of all, nice matchreports :). What I do find odd is that the ANT player didn't have an answer for the Leylines, he should play something like Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth in thew sideboard, they always do... Still I find your sideboard answer against stormcombo decks not versatile enough. Sure, the Leyline of Sanctity is amazing against Tendrils, but what about Belcher and especially TES? They'll simply win on Empty the Warrens instead of Tendrils/Charbelcher. The Revoker is quite good however, as you can set it on Lion's Eye Diamond, but that still doesn't prevent them from going off. The benefit of Revoker is that it's a 2/1 dude that helps you in the beatdown, so that makes sense to me. Can you please enlighten your choices? I am curious.
All in all a nice tournament, at least you now know the BTE isn;t doing it for you. What will you replace it with?

By the way: I feel the same about Zoo being "under the radar" and people not knowing what to expect exactly and winning matches due to this. I like that :).

[Strassbaw]

First of all, nice matchreports :). What I do find odd is that the ANT player didn't have an answer for the Leylines, he should play something like Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth in thew sideboard, they always do... Still I find your sideboard answer against stormcombo decks not versatile enough. Sure, the Leyline of Sanctity is amazing against Tendrils, but what about Belcher and especially TES? They'll simply win on Empty the Warrens instead of Tendrils/Charbelcher. The Revoker is quite good however, as you can set it on Lion's Eye Diamond, but that still doesn't prevent them from going off. The benefit of Revoker is that it's a 2/1 dude that helps you in the beatdown, so that makes sense to me. Can you please enlighten your choices? I am curious.
All in all a nice tournament, at least you now know the BTE isn;t doing it for you. What will you replace it with?

By the way: I feel the same about Zoo being "under the radar" and people not knowing what to expect exactly and winning matches due to this. I like that :).



So I based some of my sideboard choices off of the lists I have been seeing online. Adam Prosak ran a list 2 weeks before my tournament (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=54779) and this deck had only 2 answers for leylin, which was 2 chain of vapors. Abrupt decay has been common for sideboards to help beat counterbalance, thalia, etc. Empty the warrens was not in this deck either, so I felt good about the list as Adam Prosak may be a trend setter for deck building and I feel people who play MTG are often afraid to stray from the normal cookie cutter online deck builds (I've been there too). I also noticed a mav deck running Leyline of Sanctity that did well so I decided to try it. Show and Tell decks beat me bad when I was Burn, and I liked the idea of using an O-ring like I used Ensnairing Bridge when I played burn. Rebs did not seem too necessary as Thalia makes them more expensive (and against combo I will mul until I get an answer cause this build has no chance to race combo without disruption) and S&T decks run so many counter spells that it seemed futile to try to win the counter battle. Unfortunately, I did not see S&T and I can't tell you from experience that it worked out well. The revoker was effective and proactive for game 2 when I knew the types of threat I would see. The card could preemptively shut down cards like Liliana, SFM, Deathrite, Jace, Top Etc and still deal damage even before these threats hit the board. It was real cool until it died and it died every game I played it i think. I like revoker a lot with BTE but I may take it out when I take BTE out.

From here I'm gonna play test a more generic list and see what it will take to beat counterbalance and S&T. I liked running Gaddock Teeg a lot, and I think if I run 1 of him main deck I can stand a good chance against combo game 1. I'm gonna take leyline of sanctity out for the next weekly legacy tournament and see if 4 main deck answers and 2 more side deck are enough to beat the storm and combo decks consistently. Waiting until turn 2 (thaila, gaddock, Ethersworn canonist) may be to slow especially on the draw as storm decks that I've played against often go off turn 1 or 2. These cards will be more effective against a variety of decks, but when playing a fair deck without counterspells I don't like to risk losing games automatically to certain decks. Ill post my next list before my weekly event and I'll gladly take advise from people.

@ Kuyira - How did you like the Loxodon Smiter, and would you consider running 4 colors for a deathrite splash if Grave based decks become big again?
@ everyone - Is Krosan grip the best answer for countertop this deck can have and has anyone done testing against shardless bug. The card advantage abilities of that deck really make it seem like a bad match up for zoo.
@everyone - I hated losing to burn. If I keep leyline of sancitity in my deck, is it smart to board it in against burn knowing that if i draw the card it will never get play cause ill be dead by turn 4.

[Kuyira]

I must add to the Stormcombo-sideboard-discussion that I live in the Netherlands. Plus the last GP I played was in France, also known for it's stormcombo players. I encounter a lot of stormcombo so I need a more versatile answer in the first place. I understand your choice for the Leyline but doubt it would be good enough in my sideboards.

About show and tell: it's a hard matchup. I usually stick to the beatdown plan and keep hands with Nacatl/Kird Ape and preferably things like Pithing needle (for Sneak Attack/Griselbrand) but also the REB/Pyroblast. Show and Tell players have a tendancy to go off with Show and Tell against Zoo without any counter backup.

The Loxodon Smiter is a lot better than people have given it credit for so far. Against RUG Delver (Bolt/Counter/Mongoose), any BUG list (Hymn/Liliana/Counter) and Jund (Hymn/Liliana), he's extremely good. Once you get to the midgame and your hand starts to empty, you can prioritize to playing out every other card instead of the Smiter as well, because obviously discard won't do the trick if the Smiter is the last thing you got in your hand. It's a very rare occasion where I felt a Knight of the Reliquary would have been better simply because it could have been bigger than the Smiter. Even with a Quasali Pridemage next to the Loxodon Smiter, the average Tarmogoyf as a 4/5 isn't going to block it. The thing is, unless you play utility lands, the Knight of the Reliquary doesn't add anything to the game except for being a big(ger) vanilla creature in Zoo. For the Smiter that's obviously a different story with Liliana, Hymn to Tourach and RUG Delver all being hot. It's also quite funny if your opponent tries to Daze or Force of Will the Smiter anyway as a form of reflex as they would with Knight of the Reliquary, but that'snot a really good argument :laugh:

I haven't really given Deathrite Shaman much thought, but I could see it fit. In that case I would also play a 4th Loxodon Smiter. On the other hand, a Deathrite Shaman doesn't clear the way like a Grim Lavamancer does. I'd have to playtest it before saying anything else about it. If graveyardbased decks become hot again, I'd see it come in for sure.

About Krosan Grip: Counterbalance can still counter a Krosan Grip, but obviously not by responding to it by activating Sensei's Divining Top. They need to have their top-card on 3. And seeing as I play Loxodon Smiter in the 3 slot, they rarely have that on top ;). Counterbalance is also the reason I have 4 Quasali Pridemage maindeck.

Burn can be a tough matchup indeed. A turn 2 Tarmogoyf and/or Scavenging Ooze are quite good. Thalia is also fine. Lightning Helix used to be great because that enabled you to race them. Personally I'm not to worried because Burn will always be around but you might not see it (or get paired against it) for months in a row.

[Strassbaw]

Thanks for your feedback Kuyira. The location of the tournament definitely changes the types of decks you'll see. Just from playing at my local store, I have a general idea of the types of decks people may play at that store and it makes choosing a sideboard a little easier (as some people simply can't own all the cards they want to play or they are only comfortable with a few decks).

Skylasher is the next card I'm going to experiment with in this deck. It may provide a unexpected combat trick against delver decks, baleful strix, lingering souls and skylasher may be a good way to play around counterbalance.

@ SpikeyMikey - Besides those matches, how has running no basic lands gone for you recently. Also, have you done any other testing with Boros charm? I like the utility the card has, however, it seems like its hard to make that card do much more than deal 4 damage for 2 in decks without reckless charge.

[SpikeyMikey]

@ SpikeyMikey - Besides those matches, how has running no basic lands gone for you recently. Also, have you done any other testing with Boros charm? I like the utility the card has, however, it seems like its hard to make that card do much more than deal 4 damage for 2 in decks without reckless charge.

The no basic land has been fine. Running basics means you can dodge Wasteland early but it's hard to set up as you need the G on turn 1 for 1-drops and you want as much R as possible in the mid game. Basics can also lead to some pretty awkward hands that you have to ship that would've been fine with a dual or a fetch. Boros Charm is generally just an instant speed one-sided Flame Rift but I'm ok with that. I like it over Lightning Helix, which is the other contender fr that spot. 33% more damage at the cost of some lifegain in a deck trying to race seems fine.

[jtos84]

I think I read something about zoo decks not having the effect they used to. I've played some games with different builds, and studied some tournament reports, and I think I know what is going on. It doesn't look like big zoo or punishing zoo are having any trouble, but the decks that resemble goyf sligh seem to be.

Don't get me wrong any of the zoo builds have the capability of winning big tournaments, I think the number of one drops is almost holding back some decks because they can be shut down by a chalice of the void. It could possibly be the number of spell pierces being played and the decks reach is effected. New creatures in the format also increase the complexity of many matches. Deathrite Shaman and scavenging ooze are good examples. In many situations I have found that a bayou and two lingering souls is enough to overcome most adverse board threats, or to just spread out damage. Quite a few decks can go one for one with zoo, so the unexpected lingering souls can be too much.

The format may demand versatility over this type of speed right now. It can be hard to tell unless many people have explored why it has trouble. Adding speed on top of what it already had with cards like vexing devil or upping the burn/removal spells doesn't really seem to do it for me either. Burn seems to do that better and on the other hand big and punishing zoo seem to be effective. I am going to try out some different builds, and when I find what seems to be working I will post a list.

[jtos84]

I've tested this deck, and it performed pretty well. I havn't had a chance to play against maverick or many of the decks to beat, but I think this deck would be something I would play in a tournament. I shut out merfolk, and beat a couple other decks I cannot remember. One was an agro based strategy using deathrite shamans. The key is definitely not to dump your burn spells or all of your creatures at once. I just play it like I read sligh is supposed to be played. Use the burn to clear out creatures, so you can attack, or to give you extra reach near the end. The grim lavamancer has proved to be valuable.

I am not fond of the big or punishing zoo, but I respect their effectiveness. Let me know what you think, or if there are other options that could improve this strategy.



// Lands
1 Savannah
3 Wasteland
3 Taiga
1 Bayou
3 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Forest

// Creatures
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Wild Nacatl
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Kird Ape
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

// Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lingering Souls
1 Sylvan Library
1 Price of Progress
2 Rift Bolt
2 Searing Blaze
3 Boros Charm

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Pithing Needle

[jtos84]

After play testing many games with the previous deck I have identified some problems. The mana base was not working out, and some of the spells were proving inadequate. The lingering souls has worked like a charm though. I cut the spells that were not proving versatile enough, and I replaced them with cards that I think may make the difference.

I am always working with zoo decks, but I am rarely satisfied with how they perform. I am going to make it a goal to smooth out my version of zoo.

// Lands
3 Savannah
2 Wasteland
3 Taiga
1 Bayou
3 Plateau
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
1 Plains

// Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Goblin Guide
1 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic

// Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lingering Souls
3 Boros Charm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Path to Exile

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Mirran Crusader
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice

[jtos84]

The version with stoneforge mystic went 2-1 against w/b miracles or w/b control. Game three went long and won through a combination of equipment, pithing needle(jace on 11), and krosan grips. I think every good card in there deck was played including three terminus, a supreme verdict, numberous vendillion cliques and snapcaster mages with a karakas and about anything else you can think of.

I was happy with the performance in this matchup. Now I will have to play against esper stoneblade. That deck is normally much harder for the decks I make.

[Strassbaw]

I think I read something about zoo decks not having the effect they used to. I've played some games with different builds, and studied some tournament reports, and I think I know what is going on. It doesn't look like big zoo or punishing zoo are having any trouble, but the decks that resemble goyf sligh seem to be.

Don't get me wrong any of the zoo builds have the capability of winning big tournaments, I think the number of one drops is almost holding back some decks because they can be shut down by a chalice of the void. It could possibly be the number of spell pierces being played and the decks reach is effected. New creatures in the format also increase the complexity of many matches. Deathrite Shaman and scavenging ooze are good examples. In many situations I have found that a bayou and two lingering souls is enough to overcome most adverse board threats, or to just spread out damage. Quite a few decks can go one for one with zoo, so the unexpected lingering souls can be too much.

The format may demand versatility over this type of speed right now. It can be hard to tell unless many people have explored why it has trouble. Adding speed on top of what it already had with cards like vexing devil or upping the burn/removal spells doesn't really seem to do it for me either. Burn seems to do that better and on the other hand big and punishing zoo seem to be effective. I am going to try out some different builds, and when I find what seems to be working I will post a list.

First I'd like to thank you JtOs84 for the reports. I think your ideas are interesting, and I like your observations about the success of the Zoo archetype. I see you like lingering souls and I think thats a cool card to use, however, I'm worried about playing that card with Thalia. 4 mana may be hard to get in the event a thalia is on the board and lingering is in hand. The next thing I seen you do is play with a few wastelands. I'm thinking about running 2 wasteland with 2 knights in a 21 mana build. How do u feel the 21 land build and do u feel lingering souls is still effective without SFM or Jitte Main deck?

My next idea comes from a curiosity in running 4 color to answer most decks I have seen in this format. I recently ran a Zoo list similar to my old list posted above and didn't do very well. I felt like too many matchups were not in my favor, and decks like maverick and combo are prevalent in my area (which has been a bad matchup for me recently). Here is a list I am going to Proxie and test out soon:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmagoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Thalia
2 knight of the reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 lightning bolt
4 path to exile
3 Chain lightning
2 abrupt decay
2 sylvan library
2 lingering souls

4 wind swept heath
4 arid mesa
4 wooded foothills
2 taiga
2 plateau
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
2 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 abrupt decay
2 oblivian ring
2 Rebs
4 Thought seize
2 sulfuric vortex
1 Jitte
2 searing blaze


This list is very untested, and unfortunately i'm 2 DRS, 1 bayou, and 2 thoughtseize short to run it without proxie. I think this deck has answers to almost every deck I can think of in the meta. I don't know how much conflict will occur between Grim, DRS and Gofy and the number of Grims and DRS may change with play test. Counter balance has been an auto loss for me, and abrupt decay seems to be the best answer for that and CotV decks. I'm very interested in play testing thoughtseize in this deck against combo as combo is usually the worst matchup for this deck.

I'll keep people posted about its performance. I've seen a handful of 4 color decks (mainly with shardless agent though) do well. The main reasons I came up with this list was cause I wanted to take many creatures out of Zoo that has zero interaction capability and replace these cards with other cards that can change a game by themselves (Like abrupt decay & Deathrite). I also went this way with the deck to avoid building a list that was practically a maverick list as taking out the fast creatures makes it tempting to run Green sun zyneth and dryad arbor.

Feedback is appreciated. I may just end up buying the cards to complete this deck, so telling me this deck is a failure ahead of time may save me a lot of money.

Thanks for reading and thanks for posting ideas. Stay creative!


Ps. I'm still tinkering with Burning-Tree Emissary, but in a different deck with only a white splash and 2 Rancors to help utilize that green mana it produces. I had to replace Path to Exile with seal of fire as this card has great synergy with Grim Lavamancer and BTE.

[jtos84]

The second list I posted seems to fix the issues I was having with the first list. Thalia is not as effective in this deck as it is in other decks with more lock pieces. Kird ape and loam lion are hard to play over stoneforge. They still place well in big tournaments, but I am not having as much success with them as I used to. If you bought the deck, and you were not able to win with it you would not be at a loss because the cards play well in other decks or similar builds.

[jtos84]

Someone asked me if I liked four color zoo, and I was like not really. I got to thinking about the possibilities that are now available, and I decided to give a deck a try. It has performed extremely well so far and is extremely versatile. I played against burn and goblins so far. I don't really want to play it too much because I may run this in a tournament tomorrow. Let me know what you think about it.

Just an update on games. I lost 1-2 to r/u/b tendrils storm. I had the game next turn though. After that I beat w/u fish 2-1.

G/B/W/R Zoo

// Lands
3 Savannah
3 Taiga
1 Plateau
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
2 Wasteland
2 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands

// Creatures
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Dark Confidant
3 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Deathrite Shaman

// Spells
3 Chain Lightning
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

[zulander]

Here's a nice article with some interesting card choices, specifically experiment one. I think it's a better card than apes 5-8.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26217_Blitz-Brewing.html

Also I think Boros Charm is better than the Ghor-Clan guy. I do think Thalia belongs though.

[Philipp2293]

The deck certainly has some appeal, especially the turn 2 BTE draws create a lot of pressure. In testing yesterday I was flooding too often, can someone else confirm this?

Boros Charm definitely has to be considered, especially since you're weak to mass removal.

[nedleeds]

You want someone else to confirm that you were flooding?

[Kuyira]

I am pretty sure he means if someone else is mana-flooding with the same Zoo/BTE list from Karsten. Although I haven't tested it yet, I'd go with 18 or 19 lands tops if there are no 3-drops in the maindeck.

About Ghor-clan Rampager vs Boros Charm while playing Thalia: it doesn't make sense to me to use Boros Charm since it's anti-synergistic. The Ghor-clam Rampager acts as semi-removal as well. For racing it would be pretty much similar damage. The Boros Charm is cute against Engineered Explosives/Supreme Verdict/Pernicious Deed, but those are cards you're trying to race anyway.

[ironclad8690]

I am pretty sure he means if someone else is mana-flooding with the same Zoo/BTE list from Karsten. Although I haven't tested it yet, I'd go with 18 or 19 lands tops if there are no 3-drops in the maindeck.

About Ghor-clan Rampager vs Boros Charm while playing Thalia: it doesn't make sense to me to use Boros Charm since it's anti-synergistic. The Ghor-clam Rampager acts as semi-removal as well. For racing it would be pretty much similar damage. The Boros Charm is cute against Engineered Explosives/Supreme Verdict/Pernicious Deed, but those are cards you're trying to race anyway.

I think ghor clan opens you up to more blowouts (negative) though. Not necessarily saying that boros charm is better though.

[jtos84]

After playing for a while with many different decks I think I see what the problem with zoo is. It starts with the mana base and then carries over to the overall strategy. All non-basics prevent the deck from running pop and at the same time make it vulnerable to it. The more basics the deck runs the worse it generally performs. The deck that made the top eight at worlds last year was successful because it utilized wasteland and thalia. It also ran granger guildmage, but I think the meta game has become more complex since then.

The zoo decks that are still successful either act as somewhat of a mana denial deck, or they have a focused strategy like punishing fire. Other than those strategies the deck will just appear as random creatures that may be successful if the sligh strategy of using removal to ensure your creatures get through is implemented. The closest thing to zoo that seems like zoo to me would be maverick. I don't think terminus helps the situation either even though it doesn't see as much play.

I have been playing boros landfall for a while now. I played that deck probably when it first came out. To me it is very similar to zoo, but it offers a different type of flexibility. It has a lot of burn that can either remove creatures, or finish the opponent. I recently got seventh place in a 22 man tournament. I ended up losing in game three to tin fins. I was not familiar with the deck, so I did not board in reb to have a chance with the show and tells that get boarded in. I use a list with keldon marauders, steppe lynx, grim lavamancer, goblin guide, and sometimes a couple vexing devil. The rest is like a burn zoo hybrid.

This deck is good because the creatures are quick enough to deal enough damage to make burn an option to finish, or you can set up the win with the magma jets. Many players will want to board in leyline of sanctity, but the creatures in this deck can get around that. This deck can also take on pretty much any other deck in the format. It is a solid choice for the meta if you are looking for something that plays like zoo decks used to.

[jtos84]

Here is some proof that boros landfall is good for the meta game. Someone got 3rd place in a 134 man tournament with my boros list that I made about six months ago. It is akward to say the least. I made it after a five year break from magic. It was designed to grind out a control meta. The boros landfall is good for the same reasons just through different methods.

[Martin]

Dear jtos84,
Even though I agree with you, I think you shouldn't post in here about a Boros Landfall defk as this is still the Zoo thread.

Anyway! Even though this thread seems pretty empty, I'd like to post my list. I have developed a blue list which is pretty similar to Rafael Garcias list:

Zoo RUWG

Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze

Other spells
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands
4 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Flooded Strand
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormods Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Spell Pierce
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pithing Needle


CONSIDERING:
Phyrexian metamorph
Geist of saint traft
Daze in the side
Ethersworn Canonist in the side

Okay, so here are my thoughts: The deck plays really well in my meta, which is full of Delver and any kinds of Stoneforge decks. I have approximately as much removal MB as they have creatures and with GSZ and Brainstorm to filter through the deck I have some solid answers to most decks. The War Monk is in there because of the Shock Lands. Those are in there as a cheap substitute for the actual duals but I plan on saving some money for them. The deck itself plays pretty similar to normal Big Zoo. Whenever I see a wasteland i somehow try to play around it by fetching for basics and so on. The only thing I have missed is: Punishing Fire engine. I'm starting to consider it as more and more people play decks with deathrite, LS and bob.
No Tarmogoyfs because a) they are expensive. Don't get me wrong, they are really good but in my opinion 50 bucks for a vanilla beater is way too much
and b) I wanted to play interactively, with solid MD answers to most decks I'm used to see

Suggestions are welcome

[Megadeus]

Maze of Ith seems bad... Why would you ever want that? Also if you can get a goyf for 50 bucks... Lemme know. Ill buy at that price about a thousand times over.

[Martin]

Maze of Ith seems bad... Why would you ever want that? Also if you can get a goyf for 50 bucks... Lemme know. Ill buy at that price about a thousand times over.

Thanks for the Feedback. Maze was quite nice against UBx Control with 2-3 Finishers, but I'll probably switch it with Karakas. Oh and by the way, a Goyf is 50€ at my local shop. You probably thought about dollars.

[Mirrislegend]

"Bucks" as slang for "money" is an originally American thing. Hence the assumption that "bucks" as a denomination refers to the American dollar.

How often does Delver actually flip for you? Have you considered Deathrite Shaman?

[Martin]

"Bucks" as slang for "money" is an originally an American thing.

How often does Delver actually flip for you? Have you considered Deathrite Shaman?

Thanks, I didn't know that. I always thought it's just an international slang word for money.
Well, the Delver flips probably every 2nd turn since I have Braistorm to set it up.
Deathrite Shaman is a really nice card but since I only have acess to green, it gets a little worse. I know removing a creature against Reanimator or Dredge but it is quite hindering that you can obly activate this once per turn. If I need some more Graveyard hate because of a meta shift I am going to replace the Hierarchs with Shamans. If I'll do so, then I'll put in a Dual with black for the 3rd ability but in my current, Wasteland-full, meta splashing for a 5th color just seems too inconsistent.

[jtos84]

Dear jtos84,
Even though I agree with you, I think you shouldn't post in here about a Boros Landfall defk as this is still the Zoo thread.

Anyway! Even though this thread seems pretty empty, I'd like to post my list. I have developed a blue list which is pretty similar to Rafael Garcias list:

Zoo RUWG

Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Loxodon Smiter
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Rhox War Monk
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze

Other spells
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands
4 Arid Mesa
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Flooded Strand
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Maze of Ith

Sideboard
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormods Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Spell Pierce
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pithing Needle


CONSIDERING:
Phyrexian metamorph
Geist of saint traft
Daze in the side
Ethersworn Canonist in the side

Okay, so here are my thoughts: The deck plays really well in my meta, which is full of Delver and any kinds of Stoneforge decks. I have approximately as much removal MB as they have creatures and with GSZ and Brainstorm to filter through the deck I have some solid answers to most decks. The War Monk is in there because of the Shock Lands. Those are in there as a cheap substitute for the actual duals but I plan on saving some money for them. The deck itself plays pretty similar to normal Big Zoo. Whenever I see a wasteland i somehow try to play around it by fetching for basics and so on. The only thing I have missed is: Punishing Fire engine. I'm starting to consider it as more and more people play decks with deathrite, LS and bob.
No Tarmogoyfs because a) they are expensive. Don't get me wrong, they are really good but in my opinion 50 bucks for a vanilla beater is way too much
and b) I wanted to play interactively, with solid MD answers to most decks I'm used to see

Suggestions are welcome

Martin I didn't post a boros list in here, but the lists I am talking about are employing the same strategy you are attempting to recreate in a more effective way. Your brainstorms should probably be magma jet. What makes a list zoo? Green?

[Martin]

Martin I didn't post a boros list in here, but the lists I am talking about are employing the same strategy you are attempting to recreate in a more effective way. Your brainstorms should probably be magma jet. What makes a list zoo? Green?

At first, thanks for replying. You compare Brainstorm with Magma jet, although Brainstorm is lengths better. I know that's not your point but I actually don't want to play some sligh deck. I wanna play Zoo in all shapes and forms. This conflicts with your question, I know. That's a really good question, actually, and I am not in the place to answer it. I also don't know who might be in that place. Probably somebody who played Zoo from the start, when it was RG beatz.

[jtos84]

I'm not saying zoo isn't playable, but I was just trying to give the players experiencing certain shortfalls an avenue to play a similar strategy. Zoo decks, and zoo decks like yours are good, but sometimes shifts in the meta game make them seem difficult to pilot. It is possible a s/b heavy with reb's and pyros would make zoo a better performer, but I have not been play testing it lately.

[ironclad8690]

I think KOTR and a single MD karakas are necessary in Zoo due to show and tell. No matter which way you cut it, show and tell is faster by at least 1 turn than us. REB and pyroblast help, but Knight really increases your chance of winning that match. Also, it helps to have a topdeck like knight when the game goes a little longer. I have tested zoo many times vs miracles and stoneblade, and if you get swept/STP snapcastered too many times knight is a much better topdeck than loam lion or some other additional 1 drop. Your good matchups are delver (pretty much impossible to lose unless you get wastelanded/stifled out of the game), BUG, Deathblade, and any other fair deck really. Jund is about 50/50.

[ajfennewald]

I play blue zoo alot here is my favorite version
4 scalding tarn
3 wooded foothills
2 misty rain forest
1 flooded strand
2 volcanic island
2 tropical island
1 taiga
1 tundra
1 plateau
1 savannah
1 badlands
4 force of will
3 daze
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 lightning bolt
3 chain lighting
4 tribal flames
4 delver of secrets
4 wild nacalt
4 tarmogoyf
3 grim lavamancer
Sb
3 sulfuric vortex
2 krosan grip
2 meddling mage
2 ethersworn canist
3 path(or submerge)
3 tormods crypt

It is very RUG like but obv with no mana denial. It is usually not as good as RUG (though it is better against certian decks like tribal). It is def a way to dust off the nacatls while still being competive.

[Martin]

I play blue zoo alot here is my favorite version
4 scalding tarn
3 wooded foothills
2 misty rain forest
1 flooded strand
2 volcanic island
2 tropical island
1 taiga
1 tundra
1 plateau
1 savannah
1 badlands
4 force of will
3 daze
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 lightning bolt
3 chain lighting
4 tribal flames
4 delver of secrets
4 wild nacalt
4 tarmogoyf
3 grim lavamancer
Sb
3 sulfuric vortex
2 krosan grip
2 meddling mage
2 ethersworn canist
3 path(or submerge)
3 tormods crypt

It is very RUG like but obv with no mana denial. It is usually not as good as RUG (though it is better against certian decks like tribal). It is def a way to dust off the nacatls while still being competive.

IMO this just looks like a very bad and inconsistent version of RUG. Force of Will is totally misplaced as you don't have enough blue cards in your deck to pitch into it. Daze seems like a bad idea because not every land you have is an Island. RUG plays 12 lands that can make mana(Wastelands count too), of which 8 are Islands. You have 9 Lands that can make mana, of which only 5 are part Island. If you really wanna play a list similar to this, then you should probably play RUG Delver IMO.

[Megadeus]

IMO this just looks like a very bad and inconsistent version of RUG. Force of Will is totally misplaced as you don't have enough blue cards in your deck to pitch into it. Daze seems like a bad idea because not every land you have is an Island. RUG plays 12 lands that can make mana(Wastelands count too), of which 8 are Islands. You have 9 Lands that can make mana, of which only 5 are part Island. If you really wanna play a list similar to this, then you should probably play RUG Delver IMO.

actually RUG only plays 6 blue lands. three of each volcanic and tropical island.

[Martin]

actually RUG only plays 6 blue lands. three of each volcanic and tropical island.
Sorry, my bad. But they can use every land that's not a wasteland for Daze. That's my point.

[ajfennewald]

I have played both RUG, my list and a traditional Naya Zoo list. The mana is not relaly particuallry bad. Since the deck ahs not wasteland it has the some number of islands (counting things that can fetch island as islands) as RUG (and actually more than some list at 15) The other lands can be though of a filling in the wasteland slots of rug. FOW is fine with 19 blue cards. The blue count can be bolstered by playing fire//ice if desired (This set up runs 4 fire//ice 4 chain lighting 4 bolt and cuts the badlands). All in all it is mostly a worse version of RUG but not that much worse and definatly not stricly worse. I play it mainly becasue I love turnign wild nactals sideways and this deck is more viable than Naya zoo atm. I have piloted to some ok finishes in SCG events (a top 32, and 33rd) the rest of my appearances were 5-4

[Patrunkenphat7]

I'm stepping out of my comfort zone a bit by playing this deck (I have mostly been playing Storm and Deathblade recently), but Zoo can be powerful in the right metagame. I enjoy beating "good" players with this deck. Here is my current list:

4 Experiment One
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
3 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager

1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
2 Wasteland

SB
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Angel of Despair
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg

I feel pretty bad about running such a janky SB, but hey, it's Zoo. I feel really good about playing against any fair deck, so the SB needs to be full of dumb hate.

Anyways... There it is. I'm going to continue testing it, and I might play it in a local event soon.

[Vandalize]

I'm stepping out of my comfort zone a bit by playing this deck (I have mostly been playing Storm and Deathblade recently), but Zoo can be powerful in the right metagame. I enjoy beating "good" players with this deck. Here is my current list:

4 Experiment One
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
3 Kird Ape
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thalia
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager

1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
2 Wasteland

SB
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Angel of Despair
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg

I feel pretty bad about running such a janky SB, but hey, it's Zoo. I feel really good about playing against any fair deck, so the SB needs to be full of dumb hate.

Anyways... There it is. I'm going to continue testing it, and I might play it in a local event soon.

Hmm, Experiment One is definetly something to be tested. I can see a lot of potential in that card. Still, I see some issues in your list. First of all, a singleton Gaddock Teeg is really unreliable in traditional Zoo (due to the lack of GSZ). You won't see that card very often in the match-ups you need him. I would personally move it to the sideboard. Second, the lack of Qasali Pridemages in your 75, this card is REALLY good in Zoo, because it's a Naturalize beatstick, which is really necessary against many decks (and makes sideboarding pretty easy in match-ups that we don't need artifact/enchantment hate). I also think that you could swap Ghor-Clan Rampager for a more resilient pump, like Rancor.

Another point is the lack of Price of Progress/Boros Charm. With only 8 burns (that mostly go to the face), you're relying heavily on your attack phase, in which control decks are prepared to stop you cold. Price of Progress is usually the final blow, and it makes the BUG/RUG match-up really easy.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Ghor-clan serves a completely different purpose than Rancor. It deals with Goyf and acts as an uncounterable 4 to the face. I probably shouldn't be running Teeg main; after playtesting more I would make the change of -1 Teeg, +1 Ghor-clan. Pridemage isn't necessary because you are killing them so fast, and you deal with a Stoneforge before it is relevant. This isn't traditional Zoo. It's blistering fast and spends the midgame playing a Thalia to put the game out of reach or casting something like a Ghor-clan to force bad blocks and push through the final damage. Burning Tree gives you some unbeatable starts against fair decks, and Experiment One is playing out like Nacatls 5-8.

[Vandalize]

I've been tweaking Zoo for the past few days, in order to find the list that has the best speed/consistency balance, and I think I've found something very close to what I was looking for. This is almost R/G Sligh, but with a few resilient threats that are really good at punching people in the face. Path to Exile has been really lackluster in the past few lists I've tried, and I finally cut it. The list is running smoothly and I've been winning a lot against a lot of popular decks, like Deathblade, RUG, BUG and GW Maverick. Miracles and Combo (in general) are hard match-ups, but I suppose that's fair enough, we can't beat everything.

The list:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Experiment One
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Goblin Guide
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Price of Progress
2 Sylvan Library
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex

Price of Progress is much better than Boros Charm, and it's frequently hitting for 6~8 against BUG and Deathblade (that have really awful manabases). It's often the final blow after they manage to deal with my initial threats (that can punch for 10+ commonly). Sulfuric Vortex is replacing a Red Elemental Blast. It's good as a singleton, and comes handy in control matchups. Gaddock Teeg is a house against that new Mono Blue Show and Tell, since they only win by casting Enter the Infinite and other similar expensive win-spells. Oblivion Ring is as good as always against random Planeswalker, and can catch a Show and Tell player off guard when we pressure them to combo as soon as they can.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I've been tweaking Zoo for the past few days, in order to find the list that has the best speed/consistency balance, and I think I've found something very close to what I was looking for. This is almost R/G Sligh, but with a few resilient threats that are really good at punching people in the face. Path to Exile has been really lackluster in the past few lists I've tried, and I finally cut it. The list is running smoothly and I've been winning a lot against a lot of popular decks, like Deathblade, RUG, BUG and GW Maverick. Miracles and Combo (in general) are hard match-ups, but I suppose that's fair enough, we can't beat everything.

The list:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Experiment One
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Goblin Guide
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Price of Progress
2 Sylvan Library
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex

...


Is Smiter better than Knight? I find that the utility of a couple Knights in traditional Zoo is pretty good, as it lets you run a Karakas and Canopy for good effect. I also like 2 Wasteland in Zoo since Grove is rampant, and Knight combos with the Wastes.

[blindspotxxx]

Zoo has recently top 8'd an event it plays ghor clan main deck I wonder where the list is :)

[Martin]

To the discussions above:
Experiment one is clearly worse than Nacatl. EO requires you to play 2 creatures T2, while you might wanna play creature+Burn or something. Nacatl just requires lands. There is an even better card than Nacatl: Hidden Herd. This gold can be played T1 and just compare the two situations: you have eiter Nacatl or Herd T1 and choose to play Herd first. Your opponent decides to Wasteland your Taiga. You now have a 3/3 beater. A Nacatl would either be 2/2 when attacking T2 or you would get a Plateau which plays none of your early game threats. EO is a fixed 2/2 in this situation. Maybe even 1/1.

I saw some people play Kird Ape. This is a bad choice. It simply too slow for ANT/TES/Show and Tell Combo. These Combo decks are pretty popular and just wasting 1 Damage per Turn just makes the Combo matchup worse and worse when you could play cards that just are more efficient(Herd, Guide, Lynx, heck, even Delver)

To the Smiters:
They really shine against UWx Miracles/ SFM Control, RUG Delver, the most played deck right now, BUG lists, Show and Tell, decks packing Liliana of the Veil or Hymn, aka everything with Black.
I tested them a while against RUG on cockatrice and it just sometimes wins games. But if you decide to play it, I think the playset is just about right.

Ghor-Clan Rampager:
My god. RUG Delver plays Stifle. Even the potential Chance of getting it stifled and their Goyf kills your Nacatl , by that trading 2 for 1 is the absolute worst that can happen midgame.

If you guys test BTE, tell me please how it works out. I imagine it being inconsistent but awesome when it goes off. Heck, I can imagine a RG version of this deck. Potential T3 kills.

Edit: Yeah I agree that Price is better than the Boros thingy. The potential Utility is just unnecessary. Double striking a Nacatl is useless since you mame morde damage when using it as Burn. When you wanna attack with a double striked 4/5 Tarmogoyf you should already be winning. PoP just finishes games sometimes. Period.

RUWG Zoo

Creatures(23)
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Loxodon Smiter
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze

Spells(18)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
3 Path to Exile
3 GSZ
2 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix

Lands(20)
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

It is basically a fun deck but it plays actually pretty smooth. T1 Breeding Pool, Nacatl
T2 Sacred Foundry, Pridemage is a pretty strong play. I wanted to include a Karakas against Show and Tell. Maybe I'll remove the Plains.
SB:
Graveyard Hate:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
Combo Hate:
3 Spell Pierce
1 REB
1 Pyroblast
1 Gaddock Teeg
Artifact(Affinity, UWx SFM Ctrl, etc.)
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
Utility:
2 Pithing Needle

Pithing Needle is basically the best answer against Vial, SDT, SFM etc.
Spell Pierce hits everything that annoys us and can't be removed with Burn, REB that counters a Brainstorm against TES is a good play. I thought about adding a Silence. Maybe removing Gaddock or a Spell Pierce

The End

[Admiral_Arzar]

I recently picked up Zoo again after a very long hiatus (2 years or so). I have always preferred hyper-speed Zoo, and decided to test out newer cards like Experiment One and Vexing Devil. Here is the initial list:

Fast Zoo 1.0

4 Experiment One
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
3 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
3 Price of Progress
1 Fireblast

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Mountain

Sideboard

3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Serenity
2 Sulfuric Vortex

This list managed a mediocre 2-2 performance at our weekly Legacy tournament, although I (hilariously) beat TES, keeping up my undefeated streak with fast Zoo vs. Storm. I lost to BUG Cascade due to Deathrite Shaman nonsense, and Kird Apes were quite bad in practice. I also punted a match to Imperial Painter by not fetching basic forest on turn one (the fact that I drew basically no burn all match hurt as well). As a result of these things, I made these changes for version 1.1:

-3 Kird Ape

+3 Grim Lavamancer
+1 Plains

I added the Plains as a 61st card as 20 lands seemed like a hair too few. I went 2-1 in another small Legacy tournament with this list, despite being paired up against Sneaky Show, Omniclash, and U/W control (all bad matchups). I plan to switch the Lightning Helixes to Boros Charms now that my German playset showed up in the mail. I'm considering swapping the Plains out for a Savannah, because it turns out basic Plains is almost completely worthless maindeck. I also might reconfigure the sideboard to include Thalia, who is better against the combo in my meta than Canonist or Teeg. My overall impression was the list had a lot of raw power, but will just require some tweaking (especially the sideboard) to succeed depending on meta.

[lordofthepit]

I decided to go old school tonight and played Punishing Fire (Big) Zoo, which I haven't touched in almost two years. Went 4-0, beating Reanimator (2-1), Deathblade (2-0), Punishing Jund (2-0), and Deathblade (2-0).

As long as you're expecting a lot of Blade decks, this is a great choice. With the quality of hate bears recently, it can hold its own against certain combo decks too.

[blindspotxxx]

I decided to go old school tonight and played Punishing Fire (Big) Zoo, which I haven't touched in almost two years. Went 4-0, beating Reanimator (2-1), Deathblade (2-0), Punishing Jund (2-0), and Deathblade (2-0).

As long as you're expecting a lot of Blade decks, this is a great choice. With the quality of hate bears recently, it can hold its own against certain combo decks too.

What's your list? :)

[Martin]

I decided to go old school tonight and played Punishing Fire (Big) Zoo, which I haven't touched in almost two years. Went 4-0, beating Reanimator (2-1), Deathblade (2-0), Punishing Jund (2-0), and Deathblade (2-0).

As long as you're expecting a lot of Blade decks, this is a great choice. With the quality of hate bears recently, it can hold its own against certain combo decks too.

I think we have the advantage in such matchups as Delver, Blade, Deathrite.dec, Jund, Junk, Deadguy- ish type decks because of P.Fire since it kills a Goyf when casted twice, kills flipped Delver, Bob, SFM, LS Tokens etc. etc. etc. AND it gives us this lategame reach that we sometimes might lack.
With a Sideboard with RIP for dredge, Reanimator, RUG Delver, etc. , Some meta-dependant Stuff and at least 6 Slots combo hate, heck this might work! If I had the cards I'd test it but without them I will just test on Cockatrice.

[nedleeds]

Is Smiter better than Knight? I find that the utility of a couple Knights in traditional Zoo is pretty good, as it lets you run a Karakas and Canopy for good effect. I also like 2 Wasteland in Zoo since Grove is rampant, and Knight combos with the Wastes.

Smiter is nice when you run RIP in the board, that deck posted above didn't.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Played in another local with an updated version of my above list. It is currently as follows:

4 Experiment One
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Vexing Devil
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Boros Charm
3 Price of Progress
1 Fireblast

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest

Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Serenity
2 Krosan Grip

From the list in my previous post, I went -1 Plains, -2 Lightning Helix, +1 Savannah, +2 Boros Charm in the maindeck. I swapped Sulfuric Vortex for Krosan Grip in the board (Vortex was primarily anti-Batterskull tech, Grip answers that and much more) and went -2 Teeg, -1 Canonist, +3 Thalia (I think Thalia is better against combo in general - Teeg has limited utility against the new breed of blue combo).

The tournament was 4 rounds (17 players) and I went a mediocre 2-2. Round one I played against a homebrew U/W/r control deck featuring Rest in Peace, Energy Field, Isochron Scepter, Enlightened Tutor etc. While I get out of the gate quickly game one, Scepter + Lightning Helix pulls my opponent just out of burn range and he drops RIP + Helm after killing all my dudes. I board something like this:

-3 Price of Progress
-3 Grim Lavamancer
-1 Vexing Devil
-3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
-1 Boros Charm

+3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+3 Pyroblast
+3 Serenity
+2 Krosan Grip

Games two and three are both rather drawn-out affairs, with him playing lots of hate, me blowing it up, and my dudes getting Helixed, StP'd, and Supreme Verdicted away. I win them both as my topdecks are quite strong, but this is definitely not an easy matchup.

Round two I open a fast hand with only lands and dudes. I open turn 1 Experiment One, and my opponent drops Underground Sea. I expect Delver, Thoughtseize, or Deathrite Shaman. My opponent plays none and passes the turn. I think "oh shit, combo" and play double Nacatl on turn 2. My opponent drops a blue fetch and passes. I swing for a bunch, play Tarmogoyf and another guy, and pass with more than lethal on board. My opponent fetches Tundra, casts EOT Brainstorm, and 4 for 1's me with Terminus on his draw step and him at 3 life. Counterbalance and two StPs follow and I get locked out. I board similarly to round one. Game two is long and painful. I whittle my opponent down to just a few life with a couple of dudes. He has Humility and Counterbalance, and I have two 1/1 guys and Fireblast in hand. He Brainstorms on my attack step and goes to three life. Second main phase I Fireblast and he flips Terminus on CB. I had completely forgotten that both of those spells cost 6 - if I had waited and just responded to the Terminus I take this game. After this I don't draw gas and get locked out by Humility + Moat + Counterbalance.

Round 3 is 4-color Delver (a new list which appears to have no Goyf, but plays Mongoose and Deathrite). These games are very close as my hands aren't particularly fast. Game one my opponent misplays which may or may not have mattered depending on my final topdeck. Game two we both start running out of gas (he has Deathrite but is low on life) when I topdeck two Tarmogoyf's in a row and start the beats. He stays alive for several turns with Deathrite activations and chump blockers, but eventually the Goof brigade gets there. I didn't actually sideboard here, although the Pyroblasts probably would have been a good idea (I wasn't sure what to cut though).

At this point I'm 2-1 and feeling good against a lot of the possible matchups in the room (lots of blue tempo and G/B/x decks, and I've already played against all the scary board control). Unfortunately, I got paired against my buddy Esper3k (playing U/B Omniclash). Game one is a straight race - I win the roll and drop him to 3 life before dying on his turn 3. Game two I board like this:

-3 Price of Progress
-3 Grim Lavamancer
-2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
-1 Windswept Heath

+3 Pyroblast
+3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Krosan Grip

My 7 unfortunately has no hate, but the hand is extremely solid and a likely turn 4 kill, so I keep (I figure that forcing him to have the turn 3 combo is better than going to six where I may or may not draw relevant cards). I go turn 1 Experiment One, turn 2 Tarmogoyf, Turn 3 Nacatl, Vexing Devil, Bolt you, leaving him at 6. Unfortunately for me, he has the combo and I die on his turn 3. This is arguably my worst matchup in current Legacy - unfortunately I get paired up against it every time I play this deck it seems.

Some changes I am considering are -1 Ghor-Clan, +1 Boros Charm (once I RTFC and figured out Bloodrush only works during attack step, it doesn't seem quite as good. Despite this, these guys are still pretty good - I even hard-cast one to win game 1 against 4-color Delver). Boros Charm is a large burn spell that also messes up combat math and saves the team from nonsense like Supreme Verdict. I am also considering dropping the Serenities for more Grips and another Blast, as the rash of MUD and Affinity in my meta seems to have been replaced by artifact/enchantment heavy board control decks against which it generally just gets countered or Detention-Sphered. My meta (or at least my pairings) are pretty hostile to this deck right now, so it is definitely an uphill battle. I will probably play it again tomorrow though, as it is a blast to pilot. I will report back if anything interesting happens.

[Martin]

Played in another local with an updated version of my above list. It is currently as follows:

4 Experiment One
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Vexing Devil
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Boros Charm
3 Price of Progress
1 Fireblast

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest

Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Serenity
2 Krosan Grip

From the list in my previous post, I went -1 Plains, -2 Lightning Helix, +1 Savannah, +2 Boros Charm in the maindeck. I swapped Sulfuric Vortex for Krosan Grip in the board (Vortex was primarily anti-Batterskull tech, Grip answers that and much more) and went -2 Teeg, -1 Canonist, +3 Thalia (I think Thalia is better against combo in general - Teeg has limited utility against the new breed of blue combo).

The tournament was 4 rounds (17 players) and I went a mediocre 2-2. Round one I played against a homebrew U/W/r control deck featuring Rest in Peace, Energy Field, Isochron Scepter, Enlightened Tutor etc. While I get out of the gate quickly game one, Scepter + Lightning Helix pulls my opponent just out of burn range and he drops RIP + Helm after killing all my dudes. I board something like this:

-3 Price of Progress
-3 Grim Lavamancer
-1 Vexing Devil
-3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
-1 Boros Charm

+3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+3 Pyroblast
+3 Serenity
+2 Krosan Grip

Games two and three are both rather drawn-out affairs, with him playing lots of hate, me blowing it up, and my dudes getting Helixed, StP'd, and Supreme Verdicted away. I win them both as my topdecks are quite strong, but this is definitely not an easy matchup.

Round two I open a fast hand with only lands and dudes. I open turn 1 Experiment One, and my opponent drops Underground Sea. I expect Delver, Thoughtseize, or Deathrite Shaman. My opponent plays none and passes the turn. I think "oh shit, combo" and play double Nacatl on turn 2. My opponent drops a blue fetch and passes. I swing for a bunch, play Tarmogoyf and another guy, and pass with more than lethal on board. My opponent fetches Tundra, casts EOT Brainstorm, and 4 for 1's me with Terminus on his draw step and him at 3 life. Counterbalance and two StPs follow and I get locked out. I board similarly to round one. Game two is long and painful. I whittle my opponent down to just a few life with a couple of dudes. He has Humility and Counterbalance, and I have two 1/1 guys and Fireblast in hand. He Brainstorms on my attack step and goes to three life. Second main phase I Fireblast and he flips Terminus on CB. I had completely forgotten that both of those spells cost 6 - if I had waited and just responded to the Terminus I take this game. After this I don't draw gas and get locked out by Humility + Moat + Counterbalance.

Round 3 is 4-color Delver (a new list which appears to have no Goyf, but plays Mongoose and Deathrite). These games are very close as my hands aren't particularly fast. Game one my opponent misplays which may or may not have mattered depending on my final topdeck. Game two we both start running out of gas (he has Deathrite but is low on life) when I topdeck two Tarmogoyf's in a row and start the beats. He stays alive for several turns with Deathrite activations and chump blockers, but eventually the Goof brigade gets there. I didn't actually sideboard here, although the Pyroblasts probably would have been a good idea (I wasn't sure what to cut though).

At this point I'm 2-1 and feeling good against a lot of the possible matchups in the room (lots of blue tempo and G/B/x decks, and I've already played against all the scary board control). Unfortunately, I got paired against my buddy Esper3k (playing U/B Omniclash). Game one is a straight race - I win the roll and drop him to 3 life before dying on his turn 3. Game two I board like this:

-3 Price of Progress
-3 Grim Lavamancer
-2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
-1 Windswept Heath

+3 Pyroblast
+3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Krosan Grip

My 7 unfortunately has no hate, but the hand is extremely solid and a likely turn 4 kill, so I keep (I figure that forcing him to have the turn 3 combo is better than going to six where I may or may not draw relevant cards). I go turn 1 Experiment One, turn 2 Tarmogoyf, Turn 3 Nacatl, Vexing Devil, Bolt you, leaving him at 6. Unfortunately for me, he has the combo and I die on his turn 3. This is arguably my worst matchup in current Legacy - unfortunately I get paired up against it every time I play this deck it seems.

Some changes I am considering are -1 Ghor-Clan, +1 Boros Charm (once I RTFC and figured out Bloodrush only works during attack step, it doesn't seem quite as good. Despite this, these guys are still pretty good - I even hard-cast one to win game 1 against 4-color Delver). Boros Charm is a large burn spell that also messes up combat math and saves the team from nonsense like Supreme Verdict. I am also considering dropping the Serenities for more Grips and another Blast, as the rash of MUD and Affinity in my meta seems to have been replaced by artifact/enchantment heavy board control decks against which it generally just gets countered or Detention-Sphered. My meta (or at least my pairings) are pretty hostile to this deck right now, so it is definitely an uphill battle. I will probably play it again tomorrow though, as it is a blast to pilot. I will report back if anything interesting happens.

Thank you for this detailed information, I'm just curious how the Experiment Ones worked out for? I just can't think of it as a card that would fit into Zoo. I would always tell myself it is too unstable.
About that match: What would you add to make your matchup better? What would you remove? Why?
Have you played the RUG Delver matchup yet? I have experienced that our matchup lies around 50/50.
Has any of you played against the new Deathblade deck? The 4c Control one. Can any body give a detailed report on this matchup?

Thanks in advance

[Admiral_Arzar]

Thank you for this detailed information, I'm just curious how the Experiment Ones worked out for? I just can't think of it as a card that would fit into Zoo. I would always tell myself it is too unstable.
About that match: What would you add to make your matchup better? What would you remove? Why?
Have you played the RUG Delver matchup yet? I have experienced that our matchup lies around 50/50.
Has any of you played against the new Deathblade deck? The 4c Control one. Can any body give a detailed report on this matchup?

Thanks in advance

Experiment One is excellent, it is much more consistent than Steppe Lynx and doesn't require you to fetch white mana turn one. Since this deck has so many dudes it almost always swings as a 2/2, and often as a 3/3 turn 2. The regeneration ability can also catch people by surprise.

If you're referring to the Omnishow matchup, I don't think there is much that can be done other than bringing in a bunch of bears and blasts and hoping you get there. The matchup is awful.

I haven't played against RUG Delver, just the 4-color variant I mentioned. Honestly, you should beat RUG unless they manascrew you - this deck has a lot of removal for Delver (+ blasts postboard), you just have to ensure they don't run you out of gas and beat you with Tarmogoyf. Deathblade is just another control matchup - kill Deathrite and Stoneforge Mystic and run them over. Postboard bring in Krosan Grips for equipment.

I ended up playing Lands instead of this deck so I don't have any more info from this weekend. My meta is becoming super hostile to both Lands and Zoo though (25% Show and Tell, + a number of Terminus decks), so I am likely going to have to switch decks for the foreseeable future.

[Neffy]

A brief report (based on memory) on last nights game w. 24 players.

My love for Zoo is never ending and since it has been quite some time I last played it (do to Team America and Jund testing) I finally got convinced to try it out again - mostly motivated by the arrival of Experiment One (and Thalia for that matter).

My list was

MD:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress

2 Sylvan Library

3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath

SB:
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Round 1 - Show n Tell
G1 i hold a 7 hand with Thalia, GG, Sylvan, fetch and some other stuff. I had an idea of what opponent was playing but have had a few months break so wasn't sure. I win die roll and go fetch, land, GG, attack. Trigger reveals a SnT and my fears were confirmed. He goes land-go. I go land, and know that my Thalia is the key atm - and my only hope. But fearing FoW I try to trick him to counter my Sylvan instead. He doesn't. (At this point I totally blew out the existence of two-mana lands like City of Traitors (....) so I thought I had one more turn. EOT Echoing truth on Thalia. He plays that land, SnT, Emrakul, scoop.
G2. I SB in O-rings, pyroblast and I think surgicals. Remove Paths and some more. Same story, I beat him a little and he goes off with SnT before I get any help from SB cards. He kills by Omniscience and leaving Emrakul in Library, uses Release the Ants to shoot me to death. (I've never heard of that card, but if I might have boarded in Leylines just in case)
0-1

Round 2 - UR delver
G1 His creatures die to easilty to my thousand removals and I walk him over. Didnt help him either that he mulled to 5.
G2. SB for Pyroblasts. I can use almost anything but takes out Qasali i think. Same thing, i fetch basics only with PoP in hand (he had one in hand too!) and beats him down until it can burn him for the rest. I see the potential of EO in this game as it's a 3/3 alongside a Nacatl. He needs to burn one and is about to burn the EO but the two counters meant he couldnt and he had to go for the Nacatl. The EO later grew and helped killing him off.
1-1

Round 3 - RIP/helm combo
G1 - I attack and burn him to 5 life, but he Terminus off my creatures and with triple top and counterbalance he keeps my from playing anything. A shame with 3 burn spells in hand.. I refuse to admit defeat and waste time.. Finally he finds the helm and i scoop.
G2 - Game two calls in oblivion rings, pyroblasts and surgicals. He counters a would-be nasty PoP, but I establish an aggressive board and run him over. He gets a counterbalance out early but I answer with a swift O-ring which he has no CMC3 cards for. I begin to love O-ring from this point.
G3 - Quick creatures beat him down and lavamancer helps even when he plays his singleton Moat. I shoot him for 2x2 and have no cards in GY, but top deck O-ring to take out Moat. Guys around the table giggles as a 0,75$ card trumphs a
400$ card. I continue attacking and he finds nothing but a few StPs that only delay his pending doom. At this point only Terminus could save him.
2-1

Round 4 - Reanimator
G1 - This was fun. I go land go, he goes land, I go land + Thalia (he grumbles). He plays land go, I play Qasali and Thalia attacks for 3. EOT he Entombs with Thalia penalty and finds Griselbrand. Next turn he takes 7 by reanimating it (actually a sweet feeling for a Zoo player!) and says go. I have triple chain and a bolt in hand. My plan is turn burn Grisel for 3 with chain, then attack with power 3 Thalia (i knew he would block since he was on 6 life) and then before damage bolt it too to let Thalia finish the demon off without him gaining life. Good plan but i forget the Thalia penalty for a slit second and can't cast the bolt... stupid. Anyway, he blocks, thalia dies, I can cast the chain to kill it post combat. He responds by drawing 7, practically annulling the life gain from lifelink but finds nothing. Yay! He is back at 6 without creature and I pass. He exhumes an Elesh Norn which he got in the GY earlier. My Thalia joins the battle again and dies immediately, naturally. My turn I Chain+Bolt him, he has nothing.
G2 - SB surgical, pyroblast, vortex and O-ring - takes out Qasali, Chains and PoP. I keep hand with at least GG, bolt, taiga, pyro, surgical, Thalia i think. He Duresses me for surgical. I top deck a new one (y) - Taiga, GG, attack, go. His next turn he goes land, Careful study, go. I draw no lands still and keep beating with GG. He keeps getting lands from it. He then tries to get Griselbrand up from the yard, I play the new surgical on it, he Forces it but having my single red mana open i Pyroblast the FoW. He continues drawing lands and I beat him with GG, later back up by Thalia I think.
3-1

Round 5 - UWr delver/geist
G1 - I am paired of with an old buddy of mine which he complained about since our testing last week proved Zoo to be a problem for Geist and almost all his threats. Still it was a fun round with no sense of gentlemanship at all :D, you snooze, you lose! The game starts with me going for basics only and trying to beat him to the ground, but he removes my threats and beats me down with Delver. Batterskull and Jitte gets online and drawing no Qasalis his life count skyrockets to fast for me to stop it. I stay alive a few more turns by blocking with 3/3 EO that regenerates to help me the next turn but it is not enough.
G2 - SB calls in pyroblasts for Geist countering, O-rings and Vortex. I still go basics only and he ends up with 3 wastelands on board. I attack with early Qasalis and Nacatls and kill him off quickly. Oh, and he mulliganed to 6 or 5 also.
G3 - Almost same as last game, I mulligan though and keeps him off threats. At some point neither of us have creatures on board (he has Jitte), he is on 9, and i sit with chain, PoP, O-Ring and top decks Vortex. It goes down and he begins getting closer to 0, he plays delver which takes a Bolt to the knee. I draw and play a fresh Lavamancer and helps the vortex getting there. I never got to play PoP but it would have hurt tremendously on his part.
4-1

Round 6 - Omniscience,monoblue combo
G1 - my opponents score was 5-0 and didnt wish to ID as prize shares go up if you go 6-0. We play it out. He begins the game with a Leyline of Sanctity in play (his singleton!!) and then i just sat there with 3 useless burn spells. For a couple of turns he cantrips and I try to beat him down with an EO. Doenst work. Show and Tell gets out, he Omniscience and finishes me off.
G2 - SB: O-ring, pyroblasts. I get out Nacatl and begin beats. Later I play EO, then a new Nacatl (which he Forces) and begins attacking for 4. He quickly gets out show and tell, though. Luckily I have my O-ring to take out his crazy enchantment (infinite somthing?). He loses to beats and not finding any outs.
G3 - Leyline again! This time i only had 1 chain in hand along with some creatures and O-ring. I draw a second O-ring later and it helps for SnT as i recall. I had mana out for the second one and win by beats. It didnt help him either that he kept a non-land hand with leyline and went draw-go for 3-4 turns without any lands.
5-1

I went 2. place which is a big deal since there has been no Zoo in the meta for a long time and i havent been playing for some months too. Great and kind opponents and exciting matches, so thanks for that.
MPV was O-ring and EO. EO seemed just like another pair of Nacatls and I didnt have any issues with them. Sometimes they didnt grew, but mostly they got to 3/3 with counters to regenerate. O-ring was just plain nuts and helped me in almost all matches. 3 Thalia seems just fine and PoP was also a good treat in most cases. I did have a few hands with 2-3 Grims which was annoying as the yard often isn't that big. Some might notice the not-so-great combination of Thalia, GG and Path, however I decided to for it, since Thalia is there for Show and Tell or Combo in their early turns and neither GG nor Path was an issue in this case!

My considerations for the future is:
Removing Jitte from board, didnt seem relevant.
4th O-ring SB?
Maybe cutting 1 Grim?
4th Qasali MD?
Try out Ghor-Clan? Talked about with a dude and he was impressed. Haven't got the card though, but uncounterable extra beats with trample is nice for Goyf wars etc. (Didnt meet a single green card today though..)

That was all, I hope you like long reading.
Thanks

[blindspotxxx]

A brief report (based on memory) on last nights game w. 24 players.

My love for Zoo is never ending and since it has been quite some time I last played it (do to Team America and Jund testing) I finally got convinced to try it out again - mostly motivated by the arrival of Experiment One (and Thalia for that matter).

My list was

MD:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress

2 Sylvan Library

3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath

SB:
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Round 1 - Show n Tell
G1 i hold a 7 hand with Thalia, GG, Sylvan, fetch and some other stuff. I had an idea of what opponent was playing but have had a few months break so wasn't sure. I win die roll and go fetch, land, GG, attack. Trigger reveals a SnT and my fears were confirmed. He goes land-go. I go land, and know that my Thalia is the key atm - and my only hope. But fearing FoW I try to trick him to counter my Sylvan instead. He doesn't. (At this point I totally blew out the existence of two-mana lands like City of Traitors (....) so I thought I had one more turn. EOT Echoing truth on Thalia. He plays that land, SnT, Emrakul, scoop.
G2. I SB in O-rings, pyroblast and I think surgicals. Remove Paths and some more. Same story, I beat him a little and he goes off with SnT before I get any help from SB cards. He kills by Omniscience and leaving Emrakul in Library, uses Release the Ants to shoot me to death. (I've never heard of that card, but if I might have boarded in Leylines just in case)
0-1

Round 2 - UR delver
G1 His creatures die to easilty to my thousand removals and I walk him over. Didnt help him either that he mulled to 5.
G2. SB for Pyroblasts. I can use almost anything but takes out Qasali i think. Same thing, i fetch basics only with PoP in hand (he had one in hand too!) and beats him down until it can burn him for the rest. I see the potential of EO in this game as it's a 3/3 alongside a Nacatl. He needs to burn one and is about to burn the EO but the two counters meant he couldnt and he had to go for the Nacatl. The EO later grew and helped killing him off.
1-1

Round 3 - RIP/helm combo
G1 - I attack and burn him to 5 life, but he Terminus off my creatures and with triple top and counterbalance he keeps my from playing anything. A shame with 3 burn spells in hand.. I refuse to admit defeat and waste time.. Finally he finds the helm and i scoop.
G2 - Game two calls in oblivion rings, pyroblasts and surgicals. He counters a would-be nasty PoP, but I establish an aggressive board and run him over. He gets a counterbalance out early but I answer with a swift O-ring which he has no CMC3 cards for. I begin to love O-ring from this point.
G3 - Quick creatures beat him down and lavamancer helps even when he plays his singleton Moat. I shoot him for 2x2 and have no cards in GY, but top deck O-ring to take out Moat. Guys around the table giggles as a 0,75$ card trumphs a
400$ card. I continue attacking and he finds nothing but a few StPs that only delay his pending doom. At this point only Terminus could save him.
2-1

Round 4 - Reanimator
G1 - This was fun. I go land go, he goes land, I go land + Thalia (he grumbles). He plays land go, I play Qasali and Thalia attacks for 3. EOT he Entombs with Thalia penalty and finds Griselbrand. Next turn he takes 7 by reanimating it (actually a sweet feeling for a Zoo player!) and says go. I have triple chain and a bolt in hand. My plan is turn burn Grisel for 3 with chain, then attack with power 3 Thalia (i knew he would block since he was on 6 life) and then before damage bolt it too to let Thalia finish the demon off without him gaining life. Good plan but i forget the Thalia penalty for a slit second and can't cast the bolt... stupid. Anyway, he blocks, thalia dies, I can cast the chain to kill it post combat. He responds by drawing 7, practically annulling the life gain from lifelink but finds nothing. Yay! He is back at 6 without creature and I pass. He exhumes an Elesh Norn which he got in the GY earlier. My Thalia joins the battle again and dies immediately, naturally. My turn I Chain+Bolt him, he has nothing.
G2 - SB surgical, pyroblast, vortex and O-ring - takes out Qasali, Chains and PoP. I keep hand with at least GG, bolt, taiga, pyro, surgical, Thalia i think. He Duresses me for surgical. I top deck a new one (y) - Taiga, GG, attack, go. His next turn he goes land, Careful study, go. I draw no lands still and keep beating with GG. He keeps getting lands from it. He then tries to get Griselbrand up from the yard, I play the new surgical on it, he Forces it but having my single red mana open i Pyroblast the FoW. He continues drawing lands and I beat him with GG, later back up by Thalia I think.
3-1

Round 5 - UWr delver/geist
G1 - I am paired of with an old buddy of mine which he complained about since our testing last week proved Zoo to be a problem for Geist and almost all his threats. Still it was a fun round with no sense of gentlemanship at all :D, you snooze, you lose! The game starts with me going for basics only and trying to beat him to the ground, but he removes my threats and beats me down with Delver. Batterskull and Jitte gets online and drawing no Qasalis his life count skyrockets to fast for me to stop it. I stay alive a few more turns by blocking with 3/3 EO that regenerates to help me the next turn but it is not enough.
G2 - SB calls in pyroblasts for Geist countering, O-rings and Vortex. I still go basics only and he ends up with 3 wastelands on board. I attack with early Qasalis and Nacatls and kill him off quickly. Oh, and he mulliganed to 6 or 5 also.
G3 - Almost same as last game, I mulligan though and keeps him off threats. At some point neither of us have creatures on board (he has Jitte), he is on 9, and i sit with chain, PoP, O-Ring and top decks Vortex. It goes down and he begins getting closer to 0, he plays delver which takes a Bolt to the knee. I draw and play a fresh Lavamancer and helps the vortex getting there. I never got to play PoP but it would have hurt tremendously on his part.
4-1

Round 6 - Omniscience,monoblue combo
G1 - my opponents score was 5-0 and didnt wish to ID as prize shares go up if you go 6-0. We play it out. He begins the game with a Leyline of Sanctity in play (his singleton!!) and then i just sat there with 3 useless burn spells. For a couple of turns he cantrips and I try to beat him down with an EO. Doenst work. Show and Tell gets out, he Omniscience and finishes me off.
G2 - SB: O-ring, pyroblasts. I get out Nacatl and begin beats. Later I play EO, then a new Nacatl (which he Forces) and begins attacking for 4. He quickly gets out show and tell, though. Luckily I have my O-ring to take out his crazy enchantment (infinite somthing?). He loses to beats and not finding any outs.
G3 - Leyline again! This time i only had 1 chain in hand along with some creatures and O-ring. I draw a second O-ring later and it helps for SnT as i recall. I had mana out for the second one and win by beats. It didnt help him either that he kept a non-land hand with leyline and went draw-go for 3-4 turns without any lands.
5-1

I went 2. place which is a big deal since there has been no Zoo in the meta for a long time and i havent been playing for some months too. Great and kind opponents and exciting matches, so thanks for that.
MPV was O-ring and EO. EO seemed just like another pair of Nacatls and I didnt have any issues with them. Sometimes they didnt grew, but mostly they got to 3/3 with counters to regenerate. O-ring was just plain nuts and helped me in almost all matches. 3 Thalia seems just fine and PoP was also a good treat in most cases. I did have a few hands with 2-3 Grims which was annoying as the yard often isn't that big. Some might notice the not-so-great combination of Thalia, GG and Path, however I decided to for it, since Thalia is there for Show and Tell or Combo in their early turns and neither GG nor Path was an issue in this case!

My considerations for the future is:
Removing Jitte from board, didnt seem relevant.
4th O-ring SB?
Maybe cutting 1 Grim?
4th Qasali MD?
Try out Ghor-Clan? Talked about with a dude and he was impressed. Haven't got the card though, but uncounterable extra beats with trample is nice for Goyf wars etc. (Didnt meet a single green card today though..)

That was all, I hope you like long reading.
Thanks

Great! I am a great advocate of this deck :) I hope you can put zoo back on the map

[flrn]

Since catmint told me to (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26513-Gruul-Aggro&p=742348&viewfull=1#post742348) in the other thread, posting this up here:

I played Naya Blitz in the last Standard PTQ season and therefor experienced, how broken of a card Burning-Tree Emissary is. I knew that he already had a home in a modern deck and since a lot of people around me are actually playing Legacy, I thought to myself, why don't you try this guy out. So when my friends met up to playtest Legacy, I joined them and tried it out. After a couple of tests, I ended up with a list, I was ready to bring to a local six round tournament. This are the 75 cards I registered:

4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl

4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt

3 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
4 Taiga
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Path to Exile
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Oblivion Ring

Wild Nacatl and Experiment One are simply 3/3 creatures for one mana. You have to have them in your deck to constantly get explosive starts. Goblin Guide and Tarmogoyf are pretty self-explanatory in this kinda strategy. Burning-Tree Emissary allows to get three to four creatures on the board turn two, which is pretty insane, given the current metagame. Flinthoof Boar is actually pretty decent. People are not expecting this creature and when they saw them in earlier games, they always have to fear the three power haste guy, which could come along. He is a cc2 creature, which is great for Burning-Tree Emissary or just laying him out with two lands in play, because getting to three lands does not always work. Vexing Devil is pretty decent in this strategy. Since it comes into play, before the opponent gets to decide wether or not he takes four damage, the Devil evolves Experiment One, which can make the Experiment a 4/4. Also, against decks with white creature removal, you're not always getting a creature into the graveyard for your Tarmogoyf. Vexing Devil helps there out too. And if for some reason, the opponent decides, not to take four damage, you have a pretty good beater for just a single red mana. Kird Ape is kinda the best of the rest. Due to him being a 2/3, he helps out making Experiment One a 3/3 on turn two. I started out with two of them in my first draw of the deck and went up to four.

So why would you play this pile of crap? Because it is currently well positioned within the european metagame. There are not many people playing storm combo or UW Miracle. The metagame mostly consists of fair creature decks like Jund, Canadian Threshold, Deathblade, Elves or Death'n Taxes. Against these decks, you are well positioned with a creature heavy aggressive strategy. Their creatures are small and die to Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning with the exception of Tarmogyf. Because everything dies to three damage, our creatures are at least as large as any other creature in the current metagame, except for Tarmogoyf. With this aggressive strategy, we force our opponents to either jump block, do bad trades or trade one fore one. But we don't mind trading one for one, because we are overloading the board with creatures anyway. The ten burn spells are the ten best ones for this archetype. Yes, I tried Price of Progress. It was an additional burn spell in the deck, when I tested it. I felt, like I needed more creatures. Therefor it got cut. It sadly can't compete with Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning or Fireblast, because it can't target creatures. It makes us less flexible. And that kinda sucks.

As I already stated, I took this to a tournament and this is the reason, why I started this thread. I had so much fun, that I actually started working on the list. 34 people attended and I ended up in seventh place with a 4-2 record, due to good breakers. I beat Deathblade, Goblins, Elves and TES. I lost to Canadian Threshold and UW Miracles. Video Features of the tournament:

Round 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLXXuvJVm_k
Round 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HX0GI7bGYU

So after some further testing, we came to some conclusions. First of all Deathrite Shaman has to be killed immediatly. Always. You never want them to be able to ramp up. The lifegain are just the icing on the cake for the opponent in the matchup, but what's really problematic is the ability to ramp. Secondly, in the european scene Canadian Threshold pilots are using Stifle to try and manascrew their opponents. Getting a fetchland stifled is pretty bad for us, because we are mostly playing with two to three lands in play (so we can get more creatures on the board). In comparison to Wasteland, they don't even lose any tempo, because they get to keept their land around/don't need to waste a landdrop to try and screw us. Therefor, we thought about cutting fetchlands. But even with less fetchlands, we still feed opposing Deathrite Shaman's, if we don't have the removal for it. So we developed a manabase without fetchlands:

4 Plateau
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Savannah
4 Stomping Ground
4 Taiga

The old manabase (fetchlands count for all three colours) had 14 green, 16 red and 12 white sources. The new one has 11 green, 15 red and 10 white sources. This is a bit worse in comparison to before, but we feel like the upside is good enough to try it out. The additional damage mostly doesn't matter, because we should be the aggressor in most of our matchups. Additionaly, Red Elemental Blasts suck in the board. I added a third Path to Exile for the tempo matchups, to get rid of Tarmogoyf and two Sulfuric Vortex as a lategame card against decks, that can stall us out or remove our board (like UW Miracle, Enchantress or UB Tezzeret). This leaves me with one free slot for a 'bullet'. Currently I would play Electrickery in this slot. It is great against Lingering Souls, Elves and Death'n Taxes. As of now, this is my current list:

4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl

4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt

4 Plateau
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Savannah
4 Stomping Ground
4 Taiga

Sideboard:
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Electrickery
3 Path to Exile
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Sulfuric Vortex

I can only recommend you to try this out and not to underestimate the amount of damage the deck can deal in the shortest amount of time. I had numerous turn three kills with it.

(Sorry for my bad english.)

[Tao]

Good post and agreed on Emissary. I like the list and the SB. On what could be improved I think Flinthoof Boar is worse than Green Sun's Zenith. (also I would have posted in N&D but you decided to move here just fyi).
On one Mana GSZ does something while Boar doesn't. It does not exactly what you want but it isn't horrible either and can turn unkeepable hands into keepable ones. On two mana both are 3/3 for 3. On three mana I think the choice of Goyf, Pridemage, Teeg is better than a 3/3 haste. It would require to cut three cards for Teeg, Pridemage and Arbor but I think it is worth it. Extra Goyfs can't hurt and Pridemage and Teeg do things that the rest of the deck lacks.

[flrn]

Well I first posted it in N&D and there they told me to post it in here. I'm confused! I think the haste aspect of Flinthoof Boar is pretty important. Flinthoof Boar gives the deck some extra speed, starting turn three. Whenever I can I try to play my haste guys as the last creatures off my hand. People are always counting up damage towards them being dead and haste guys really fuck those calculations up. But to be honest, Green Sun's Zenith has not crossed my mind so far. I really don't like white creatures in this attempt of the deck, because Burning-Tree Emissary can't cast them. This could cause some trouble, but along with Green Sun's Zenith, Teeg/Pridemage could be nice 1-off additions for the sideboard. I need to think about your suggestion and try it out to make up my mind, though. You can't theorycraft everything.

[Tao]

Agree with what you said, so in theory we agree. I find it close and in the end it can only be told by testing.

[Megadeus]

I mean the burning tree into green sun play for a nacatl is a pretty sick play. I dig it

[flrn]

I mean the burning tree into green sun play for a nacatl is a pretty sick play. I dig it

Well Burning-Tree Emmissary into Flinthoof Boar is basically the same. The other day, I played Experiment One turn one, Burning-Tree Emmissary into Wild Nacatl, into Vexing Devil (my opponent took four) on turn two. Then, I casually attacked him down to 12 with my 4/4 Experiment. Damn that feels good.

[Grollub]

Instead of Electrickery as an option vs Lingering Spirits, have you considered Gruul Charm it comes with a lot more options and kills Delvers to boot.

A super janky idea, have anyone tried Domri Rade? He potentially lets you draw gas (especially with a Sylvan Library list) and makes it much easier to keep a strong presence on the board with his -2 ability. Maybe use him as a random 1-off miser card (I have a fondness for those, always run a singleton Final Fortune in fast aggressive red decks)?

[Megadeus]

Man why is gruul charm so bad compared to all of the other ones,?

[Grollub]

Man why is gruul charm so bad compared to all of the other ones,?
Because the non-red color isn't blue. :P

[flrn]

Agree with what you said, so in theory we agree. I find it close and in the end it can only be told by testing.

So, I didn't like Green Sun's Zenith in testing. For two mana, it does the same as Flinthoof Boar, but you don't really have a lot of green creatures to tutor up. You basically have 4 Wild Nacatl and 4 Tarmogoyf to tutor for, if you cut Flinthoof Boar. Flinthoof Boar in this deck is always a 3/3. This deck often needs to operate on two to three mana, which makes us tap out a lot. We actually need to play around Daze and Spell Pierce in the tempo matchup. With three mana in play, if I lay out Flinthoof Boar and my opponent has a Daze, he has the option to use it as a Healing Salve, but I still get my 3/3 into play. It can't be pierced. And to have eight haste guys is really important to keep up the speed against other creature decks. Don't underestimate the 3/3 body. It's already bigger (or as large) as any other creature in legacy.

You want to streamline the creature base as much as possible and Flinthoof Boar simply contributes more to that, than GSZ.


Instead of Electrickery as an option vs Lingering Spirits, have you considered Gruul Charm it comes with a lot more options and kills Delvers to boot.

Gruul Charm is less flexible, than Electrickery. Electrickery can be used as a one mana removal, against 2/1 utility creatures, which I heard exist a lot in legacy. It's also a blowout card against Elves. We don't care about the not blocking part, because our creatures are already larger than the opponent ones anyway. If they block, they chump or they trade two for one, which is fine.


A super janky idea, have anyone tried Domri Rade? He potentially lets you draw gas (especially with a Sylvan Library list) and makes it much easier to keep a strong presence on the board with his -2 ability. Maybe use him as a random 1-off miser card (I have a fondness for those, always run a singleton Final Fortune in fast aggressive red decks)?

These deck needs to be able to operate on two mana. You can bring in three mana cards in matchups, where you know your opponent wont Wasteland you, but Domri Rade is a card I don't want to have in my deck. He doesn't contribute anything to the facestomp plan. He is a card, which helps us win the lategame, but we don't want to win the lategame. We want to facestomp. As soon as possible. Also he doesn't evolve Experiment One. He costs us a whole turn, where we don't contribute anything to the board to facestomp. We can't afford that.

[Neffy]

I swapped Sulfuric Vortex for Krosan Grip in the board (Vortex was primarily anti-Batterskull tech, Grip answers that and much more)

I still use Sulfuric Vortex in the SB as a one-off. It is also mainly against Batterskull but very much also against Griselbrand. When the opponent takes casts him, then you cast vortex, they draw 7 take 7 and dont find FoW, you are in much luck. At this point you can whittle him down with the damage from Vortex itself or just wait for your Path to Exile and attack him to death.

Other cards I use Vortex against are Jitte, the occasional Zuran Orb, StP (when they sword their own creatures to save themselves), etc. - So I find it much worthwhile to include. Of course artifact/enchantment hate is necessary but that's what Cat Wizards are for ;)

[Strassbaw]

I went to Redcap's Corner in Philadelphia PA, and played in a Wednesday night magic legacy tournament with 28 other people and achieved a top 4 split prize money after cut to top 8. I have been proxing this list for a little and tweaking it, and here it what I came up with after borrowing a few cards:


deathrite shaman 4
dark confidant 3 (couldnt get 1 more so I ran jitte main and through in a Cage)
grim lavamancer 4
thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
tarmagoyf 4
scavenging ooze 2
gaddok teeg 1

inquisition of kozilek 2
thought seize 2 (couldnt get 2 more so i used inquisition)
swords to plowshares 4
lightning bolt 4
abrupt decay 4
sylvan library 2
jitte 1

20 lands:
Badlands 2
savanna 2
scrubland 1
taiga 1
bayou 1
plateau 1
wooded foothills 2
marsh flats 2
verdant catacombs 2
wind swept heath 2
arid mesa 2
blood stained mire 2


sideboard

reb 3
choke 2
oblivion ring 2
cabal therapy 1
gadock teeg 1
quasali pridemage 3
Zealous Persecution 2
grafdiggers cage 1


I went 3 and 1 in swiss round and in round 3 it went to time playing miracles and I let him have the win to be nice and to continue play testing. I made top 4 and we chose to split.


round 1: vs golbins 2 -0 (side in pridemage and Zealous Persecution, side out thalia, teeg, and some discard.)

He played krenko version. I am very familar with the goblin deck and I have so much removal main deck that I felt like I had the upper hand. Jitte main won me game 2.

round 2: vs grixis young pyromancer delver gatixian probe ( side in Zealous Persecution, choke, side out teeg and discard)

he played a cool deck, but i think my sideboard and lavamancer/DRS were really affective. Young pyromancer is kill onsite and tons of removal in my deck was helping a lot.

Round 3: 1-2 vs miracles ( side in teeg oblivian ring, reb, choke, side out STP, jitte, grim)

Really bad match up.
Game 1 i miss played by being to agressive. His turn 1 was planes, Top, and I casted 3 guys on my turn 2 with DRS. He casted terminis at my turns end.

Game2: I won cause he didnt know I ran no basics lands and he did not side board in his bloodmoon until game 3. This game I did not flood the board and I killed his RIP and counterbalance with o ring and abrupt decay. Oring was pretty good in this match. Sulfuric vortex may be a side board card necessary to beating this deck late game.

game 3 time is about to run out and he turn 4 bloodmoons me. I let him have win instead of seeking a tie. no big deal. gives me more time to play test.

rouns 4: Landstill BUG (side in Teeg, choke, Rebs, take out discard, and 2 grim) o-ring game 3 for other grims

Game 1 he wins and draws 6 cards from standstill with walking land threats.

game2: I just beat em down and dark confadont does a lot of work for me

game 3: I won after a long battle that sylvan libary really helped me win

top 8

play against Jund with out punishing fire (side out1 teeg for 1 oring no other options i can see. Maybe pridemage would have been better than the discard) 2-0

Most fun I had this year in a match. It was a lot of fun to play another similar kind of deck and the opponet was cool.

game 1: I win because abrupt decay kills a planeswalker. This match came down to the top deck, and I think I may have had a sylvan library on the board.

game 2: very similar match except he had the sylvan libary. He played it with loam, and had a judge call about how dredge and library work together. At one point he dredged and milled Elf,Bob,Gofy and I top deck a goyf and ride it to victory after drawing a bunch of removal.

top 4 split. Lucky for me the top four was miracles, dredge, and storm.


having a deck that was a list of my own helped me to victory. no one knew i didnt have wasteland and no non-basics until it was too late. Bloodmoon out right beats this list, so I may be in trouble if that card gets hot in my area.

Moving forward I will seek to play a list more like this next time I test this deck:

deathrite shaman 4
dark confidant 4
grim lavamancer 4
thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
tarmagoyf 4
scavenging ooze 2
gaddok teeg 1

thought seize 4
swords to plowshares 4
lightning bolt 4
abrupt decay 4
sylvan library 2

20lands:
Badlands 2
savanna 2
scrubland 1
taiga 1
bayou 1
plateau 1
wooded foothills 2
marsh flats 2
verdant catacombs 2
wind swept heath 2
arid mesa 2
blood stained mire 2


sideboard

reb 2
choke 2
oblivion ring 2
quasali pridemage 3
Zealous Persecution 2
ethersworn canoeist 2
sulfuric vortex 1
jitte 1


So far this deck has been a lot of fun to play. I have tweaked from a Zoo deck, and interactive cards like thalia, DRS, Grim and Bob seem to be more beneficial than running sticks like kird ape and loam lion.

Thanks for reading. Feedback appreciated. Zoo was the closest archetype I could see to post this deck in. Dark Zoo I suppose.

[Martin]

Interesting. You basically made a Team Italia Deck with green. Would you consider it any better than regular Big or Fast Zoo? Did you think about Vindicate?

I might wirte a new Primer, but if I do so I will just post it in here. Help would be greaty appreciated

[Strassbaw]

This week I ran a very similar list, and did not do quite as hot, but mostly due to poor play, missing scrubland, (My friend didn't make it in time for me to borrow it for my deck and I needed to fetch it real bad in 2 games), and the 75 needed a tweak.

I learned that disputing an opponents combo deck (in this case it was storm) meant nothing if you had no board pressure to kill them. This is why the Zoo dudes (kird, Lion, Nacatl) may help. Lava mancer and DRS are slow and GOFY is great, but only 4 of them are in the deck so that can't be the only card you can race with.


I have also learned that Gadock Teeg is cool, but not that great for this deck. Without green sun, he was a weird 1 of in my deck, and had some impact on games, but not many games where a 1 mana 3/3 wouldn't have been better.

Scavenging ooze is awesome, but I don't think this deck needs it. Its a really cool card, can do great things, but when trying to apply pressure, my hand was congested with 2 mana spells and I think for the sake of running smooth, more 1 drops are needed.

Reb did not do much for me. This card is great, but even in decks that run Jace, I did not want this card very much over other cards. Siding cards out is very difficult against fair decks, and when fighting Show and Tell reb may be great, but probably not better than Oblivion ring, or duress. Also against Storm (burning wish and science) I brought in my 2 rebs and was left with no options after he went off and Emptied the Warrens without casting blue spells to search that turn.

I have come up with a new 75 for the weekend, and here it is:

deathrite shaman 4
dark confidant 4
grim lavamancer 3
thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
tarmagoyf 4
Wild Nacatl 4

thought seize 4
swords to plowshares 4
lightning bolt 4
abrupt decay 4
sylvan library 2

20lands:
Badlands 2
savanna 2
scrubland 1
taiga 1
bayou 1
plateau 1
wooded foothills 2
marsh flats 2
verdant catacombs 2
wind swept heath 2
arid mesa 2
blood stained mire 2


sideboard


Choke 2
Oblivion ring 2
Quasali pridemage 4
Zealous Persecution 2 (my weak link I think, but it seems to be my best option for now)
Ethersworn canoeist 2 (I ran tegg this week instead and didn't like it. Plus this card can beat elves!)
Duress 3 (I seen Jund doesn't run Reb anymore, and Jund runs extra discard in Sideboard. I'm gonna try that, than hopefully draw into Thalia, Ethersworn Canonist, or O-ring depending on the deck I'm against)


This list seems to have more direct hate towards the problems I have, mainly combo decks and Miracles.

I also am worried about my mana base. I have 20 lands, 12 fetch and 8 dual lands. I'm wondering if this is to much as the most expensive card in my deck cost 2 and I have DRS. So far it has felt good, but I do not know how to properly calculate a healthy mana base, so empirical data is all I have.

I'm going to get hit by wasteland, and stifle, so maybe running 20 is okay and I can board out lands against the Combo decks.

Any feed back would be appreciated. I've had a great time running this deck and I plan to keep doing so as DRS has made other 4 color decks possible.

Thanks!
M.S.


Ps. How do people feel about duress (game 2) Vs Miracles? I have gotten hit by Brainstorm in response to Thoughtseize and really didn't like it, but pulling a Divine Top, Brainstorm, Ponder, or STP from their hand Turn 1 may be game winning with the right pressure.

[Strassbaw]

Interesting. You basically made a Team Italia Deck with green. Would you consider it any better than regular Big or Fast Zoo? Did you think about Vindicate?

I might wirte a new Primer, but if I do so I will just post it in here. Help would be greaty appreciated

I would say its somewhere in between junk, team Italia, and Jund right now, but I ultimately started with Zoo when I began brewing this list. So far I like it better than fast Zoo, as racing combo decks seems futile.

I have seen a faster Zoo deck in my area being piloted by a good player that runs Ghor-Clan Rampager and other fast stuff. The idea is that the + 4/4 and trample can't be countered spelled, and if they chump block, they make take a bunch in trample damage.

Vindicate is great, but I can't find room for it. Been consider it as a 1 of in board to replace a Pridemage as that card removes just about anything in MTG. Thalia in the deck may make Vindicate cost 4 which is mainly why its not in there (and I don't own the card anymore, but Vindicate pretty cheap considering the rest of my list). I think the card may find a home in my deck, but probably not for this week.

If I do well this weekend and place, I may ask for that premiere, but as of now with the addition of the Nacatl, it may be less confusing to call it Dark Zoo.

[Pellefant]

Intangible virtue 2 (my weak link I think, but it seems to be my best option for now)


I like the deck a lot, but Intangible virtue in the board must be a typo since it doesn't do anything. What card do you really mean?

[lordofthepit]

I just split in the top 4 of a 95-player Black Lotus tournament.

Beat U/B Tezz (2-0), Omni (2-0), Death and Taxes (2-1), Omni (2-1), Jund (2-0), followed by double ID into the Top 8. Beat a different Jund deck in the Top 8 (2-0) before losing to Deathblade (0-2), which I would have ironically considered one of my better matchups.

I may put up a tournament report later.

[Strassbaw]

I like the deck a lot, but Intangible virtue in the board must be a typo since it doesn't do anything. What card do you really mean?

The card I meant to say was Zealous Persecution. Thanks for pointing it out. I have just started editing the other posts that had the error. I have just tested the deck with Wild Nacatl at SCG Baltimore and I did not like it. The card was like a weak body, and the extra damage I was able to do early in the game was negligible. I think this deck does best when I have cards that provide me with board advantage or card advantage and Wild Nacatl doesn't help very much. I'm adding 4 wastelands in the deck(after losing to Math of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendants vale) and pulling out two fetch lands and trying the deck with 22 mana now. I think Wasteland is worth a shot, as it also can be used to play Thalia, Goyf, Library and Bob. It also may help provide my deck with disruption in the early game to win faster. If I play this Wednesday, I'll post another list with results.

[blindspotxxx]

I just split in the top 4 of a 95-player Black Lotus tournament.

Beat U/B Tezz (2-0), Omni (2-0), Death and Taxes (2-1), Omni (2-1), Jund (2-0), followed by double ID into the Top 8. Beat a different Jund deck in the Top 8 (2-0) before losing to Deathblade (0-2), which I would have ironically considered one of my better matchups.

I may put up a tournament report later.

Can't wait for your list, I honestly want aggro to go back because I am an aggro player but forced to play other decks due to viability.


The card I meant to say was Zealous Persecution. Thanks for pointing it out. I have just started editing the other posts that had the error. I have just tested the deck with Wild Nacatl at SCG Baltimore and I did not like it. The card was like a weak body, and the extra damage I was able to do early in the game was negligible. I think this deck does best when I have cards that provide me with board advantage or card advantage and Wild Nacatl doesn't help very much. I'm adding 4 wastelands in the deck(after losing to Math of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendants vale) and pulling out two fetch lands and trying the deck with 22 mana now. I think Wasteland is worth a shot, as it also can be used to play Thalia, Goyf, Library and Bob. It also may help provide my deck with disruption in the early game to win faster. If I play this Wednesday, I'll post another list with results.

This is great and I admire your patience with the deck and the effort you put into optimizing and pushing this list. Keep it up! :tongue:

[lordofthepit]

Can't wait for your list, I honestly want aggro to go back because I am an aggro player but forced to play other decks due to viability.

Here's my report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26620-FIGHT-ME!-Top-4-at-Mirkwood-Cup-with-Zoo

I'd say my list is more of a midrange Zoo deck than an aggro one, but it's closer to aggro than anything else in the format right now (besides Affinity).

[Zombie]

TES and Elves are aggro : /

[Neffy]

I would like to know people's opinions on Ghor-Clan Rampager.

What experiences have you had with ham and do you shape the deck with him in it? Less white? More aggro?
I am considering testing out 2-off instead of PoP, but not sure if that swap is very smart in the legacy meta.

He seems rather nasty as he counts as a possible bolt/shock as well as "creature removal" when opponent decides to block our attacker.

Any thoughts are appreciated :)

A

[Pellefant]

Here's my report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26620-FIGHT-ME!-Top-4-at-Mirkwood-Cup-with-Zoo

I'd say my list is more of a midrange Zoo deck than an aggro one, but it's closer to aggro than anything else in the format right now (besides Affinity).

I took a slightly modified version of your list to a 50-ish people tournament yesterday. Won against UWr miracles in the quarter finals. Lost a super close match in the semis to elves with a very good pilot.

Over all I'm extremely satisfied with punishing big zoo in this metagame. I especially enjoy kicking the crap out of omnitell (did that twice in the swiss).

[Bruno Mars]

hey, i need some help with my zoo build. at the moment what do you think is the better version against shardless bug, stoneblade, rug delver etc? the fast one drop zoo with 4 ape and 2-3 lion or the midrange zoo with 3-4 knights and 3-4 hierarch?
thanks bye

[lordofthepit]

I took a slightly modified version of your list to a 50-ish people tournament yesterday. Won against UWr miracles in the quarter finals. Lost a super close match in the semis to elves with a very good pilot.

Over all I'm extremely satisfied with punishing big zoo in this metagame. I especially enjoy kicking the crap out of omnitell (did that twice in the swiss).

Awesome, is this the tournament that useL wrote about?

[lordofthepit]

hey, i need some help with my zoo build. at the moment what do you think is the better version against shardless bug, stoneblade, rug delver etc? the fast one drop zoo with 4 ape and 2-3 lion or the midrange zoo with 3-4 knights and 3-4 hierarch?
thanks bye

I've never had any success with small Zoo, while I've done quite well with big Zoo, so I'm pretty biased. I say you have fewer issues with RUG Delver on the aggro plan with small Zoo, but you lose the stability Noble Hierarch gives to your mana base.

I feel Stoneblade is miserable for small Zoo while it's favorable for Big Zoo.

Shardless should be favorable for either. Knights and Hierarchs aren't necessarily good here, but their entire deck gets embarrassed by Punishing Fire if you run it.

[Bruno Mars]

I came up with these two builds:

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Loam Lion
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Dismember
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Price of Progress
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

In "Big Zoo" i would cut -4 Apes and -2 Loam Lion for +4 Hierarch and +2 Knight. Im playing Zoo for almost 4 years, both lists are working. I just dont have experience against all decks since the last 6 months cause i didnt have time to play.

I see Punishing Fire is a stupid card vs. Noble Hierarch, problably you should run the more agressive list. I was never a fan of path to exile and swords to plowshares, since price of progress is really good in legacy you dont wanna give your opponent life or a basic. Furthermore Dismember works really good together with grim lavamancer and lightning helix. Maybe against decks with deathrite shaman you should run a Sword of Feast and Famine??

would you say you should run more fireblast and more PoP to be even more aggressive. But then I guess deathrite shaman and scavenging ooze are getting just more powerful.

I see the point of saying big zoo is better than fast zoo, but what makes big zoo better than Jund, shardless bug, maverick etc. right now?? probably just the point its more aggressive and then fast zoo would be even better.

whats your opinion about this?

[Pellefant]

Awesome, is this the tournament that useL wrote about?


Yup, that's the one :)

[Strassbaw]

Results of my games with my 4c Zooish deck sense adding a 4 Wasteland, 4 Thoughtseize, 3 Thalia main deck hate package at 2 Weekly tournaments and 1 Starcitygames Event in Philly:

SCG Philly:4-3 drop due to being a nice guy and letting and elf player win in round 7 cause he started the game with 59 cards in his deck.

Round 1: Patriot 2-0
Round 2: Tes 2-0
Round 3: 4 color loam with Knights of the reliquary and Dark Depths/thespian stage combo 1-2
Round 4: Omnitell Ants finish 2-1
Round 5: Young Pyromancer grixis 1-2
Round 6: Reanimator 2-1
Round 7: Elves 1-2 (I forfeit the match when I found his Misty Rain forest on the ground. He was very likely to win the match when I quit cause the judge was on the way over)
Drop =(

LGS in Philly week before SCG philly: 2-2

Omnitell: 2-1
Dredge 1-2
Young Pyromancer U/R 2-1
Reanimator 1-2

Lgs in Philly week after Scg philly 2-2

Jund 2-1
Omnitell 2-1
Land Still 1-2
RIP UWR Miracles 0-2

The list with the changes I did

deathrite shaman 4
dark confidant 4
grim lavamancer 3 (considering adding a 4th for current meta. Lots of elves players and young pyromancer decks)
thalia, guardian of thrabein 3
tarmagoyf 4
scavenging ooze 2 (I tried Loxodon smiter Main deck. Liked it, but didn't love it and couldn't find room in side board for it)
(Considering a Stoneforge package, but I hate using those cards. They are slow and can be useless if they hit you with removal.)

thought seize 4
swords to plowshares 4
lightning bolt 4
abrupt decay 4
sylvan library 2

22 lands:
Badlands 2
savanna 2
scrubland 1
taiga 1
bayou 1
plateau 1
wooded foothills 2
marsh flats 2
verdant catacombs 2
wind swept heath 2
blood stained mire 2
Wasteland 4

sideboard

Duress 3 (Better than Reb at combo hate. Holding a red mana up each turn slows you down!)
choke 2
oblivion ring 2
quasali pridemage 4 (good option against Omnitell, especially with Thalia!)
Grim Lavamancer 1 (was Zealous Persecution, but it was not great in the deck. Too reactive and not proactive like Grim. I added a 4th Pridemage and the Lavamancer after SCG Philly loss in elves match)
ethersworn canoeist 2 (good against Omnitell!)
Life from the loam 1




The deck so far has been good against the combo decks, and strong against the fair decks to, and I blame myself for just about every loss. I also have to adjust the mana base. I feel like the fetch lands or the dual land count is not as efficient as it could be, and I do not know how to adjust it without just using empirical data from games I've played. I'll post more about how the hate I'm using is allowing me to beat the unfair decks. The interactions the creatures have with the decks people are playing can alter games. A big weakness of the deck has been the lack of a "Lock Down" type card (sulfuric vortex, Planeswalkers, Bloodmoon, Etc.) besides thalia main deck. Grim Lavamancer is really great against Deathrite Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic, and tribe decks, but it can be almost a dead card against many decks. Running 4 main deck can be risky, but worth considering if a lot of people are playing the type of decks I listed. As far as the Kird ape, Wild Nacatl, Loam Lion type cards besides Gofy are not as useful then cards that have interactions or disrupt the opponent (Scavenging ooze, thalia, Deathrite etc.) and I think racing the combo decks is not a good strategy without some type of disruption like Thalia, Wasteland, Thoughtseize, Gaddock, Etc. in this kind of aggro deck.

As far as faster Zoo type decks, cards like goblin guide, Nacatl without Thalia or wasteland are best suited by sideboard cards that win the game when they enter the battlefield (Angle of despair for SNT, Summoners Trap or etherswon canonist for Tes, Sulfuric Vortex for Stoneforge or slow blue decks etc.) when fighting combo. Narrow sideboard cards can be seen in the burn deck, and its success comes from bringing those right cards in the board and shutting down the decks that you predicted you would see. With the black splash addition to the deck, Thoughtseize accompanied by duress in the sideboard has allowed me to win matches often that a aggro deck would not normally win.

Thanks for reading

[aluisiocsantos]

Thats one nice list! The only thing I don't really like is the double Scavenging Ooze which I don't normally like alone in Zoo. Fast Zoo (which seems to be the case) needs a lot of mana and is generally tapped out, but in other hand I can see as you'd spend more mana on his and Lavamancer's abilities instead of casting mgic so maybe that would make sense. I like the sorta Jund-ish approach though, since I've been playing the deck and love it. Id sugest running at least 1 Qasali maindeck and one Krosan Grip on the sideboard to replace it.

[thefreakaccident]

Necro Zoo with something that could only be described as...



creatures//29
4 wild nacatl
4 goblin guide
4 spark elemental/kird ape
3 goblin bushwacker
4 experiment one
2 grim lavamancer
4 vexing devil
4 tarmogoyf

lands//19
4 taiga
4 plateau
1 mountain
4 scalding tarn
4 bloodstained mire
2 arid mesa

spells//12
4 lightning bolt
4 forked bolt
4 proclamation of rebirth


It is pretty bland and to the point, but it has a very consistent goldfish in a vacuum. I would like to get fireblast back in here, and 4 proclamation may be too much, but getting two is such a blowout against removal.

Anyways, onto the deck. It is basically just an excuse for me to play spark elementals and vexing devils, two normally terrible cards. The thing is, they both feed experiment one very nicely, and can be explosive in multiples with proclamation. Bushwacker is probably still bad, but he's been winning me games, so I can't complain, although the fourth one of him is probably the first cut.


This is a very raw decklist, but I feel It should stand as the new standard for classical 'all-in' zoo. It goldfishes on par, and has much bigger plays which translates towards its resiliency to removal.

The deck is not tuned against combo, it is not a maverick 'zoo' bastard child. It turns sideways.

[Neffy]

Any hope to see this guy in Zoo decks?

Maybe as alternative to/poor-man's sylvan library? Effectively saying G: Draw 2 cards.. Could help with swarming in Fast Zoo decks or finding removal for next attack?

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ths/184.jpg

[paradigm72]

Warriors' Lesson is narrow, but potentially useful in builds that do attempt to swarm with multiple one-drops. I'm concerned it's too much of a "win-more" card; if you're getting two attackers through unblocked on turn 3, you're usually either in control of the game at that point, or about to lose anyway to (non-Elf) combo. Sylvan Library on the other hand can bail you out when the board is stalled in the mid game and you really need the last Lightning Bolt or Price of Progress.

Speaking of Theros cards... I'm seriously considering Chained to the Rocks as a sideboard answer to Sneak and Show. Very tough to run in the main because of the risk of a blowout with Wasteland on your Plateau, but against decks not running Wasteland it could work. It has the advantage over Oblivion Ring / Ashen Rider of actually being castable most of the time.

[Neffy]

Warriors' Lesson is narrow, but potentially useful in builds that do attempt to swarm with multiple one-drops. I'm concerned it's too much of a "win-more" card; if you're getting two attackers through unblocked on turn 3, you're usually either in control of the game at that point, or about to lose anyway to (non-Elf) combo. Sylvan Library on the other hand can bail you out when the board is stalled in the mid game and you really need the last Lightning Bolt or Price of Progress.

Speaking of Theros cards... I'm seriously considering Chained to the Rocks as a sideboard answer to Sneak and Show. Very tough to run in the main because of the risk of a blowout with Wasteland on your Plateau, but against decks not running Wasteland it could work. It has the advantage over Oblivion Ring / Ashen Rider of actually being castable most of the time.

You're prob. right. I can imagine that being a often-accurring situation. Very nice tech with CttR. I think i will test it out.

[thefreakaccident]

I really like chained to the rocks against emrakul.

[Neffy]

Double post. Sorry

[crow_mw]

Chained to the rocks could almost replace path to exile. I don't think loosing the instant speed is that much of an issue for Zoo deck. However being susceptible to wasteland does suck big time.

[Neffy]

Chained to the rocks could almost replace path to exile. I don't think loosing the instant speed is that much of an issue for Zoo deck. However being susceptible to wasteland does suck big time.

One could run a singleton mountain. Many fast zoo decks does that anyway.

[Artlee]

Chained to the rocks could almost replace path to exile. I don't think loosing the instant speed is that much of an issue for Zoo deck. However being susceptible to wasteland does suck big time.

Feel free to try, but I can almost say with confidence that this will work poorly. Unless you are fearing getting wastelanded you want to get duals early rounds, so you can cast nacatl, and still be able to cast some combination of red and white spells next turn.

[emt37]

Yo guys, what do you think about Fleecemane Lion?
It seems an excellent beater for just 2 mana, and if you're playing with hierarchs the monstruosity cost is that bad (it's for the midgame, obviously).

Also why no one is using Nantuko Sanctuary + Life from the loam? Even a singleton of both would be great.

[ScatmanX]

Thefreakaccidents list made me want to test a fest zoo (sligh moreso actually).
Though Proclamation of Rebirth seem fine, and Spark Elemental so-so, don't think they belong here. Here's where I'm at:

4 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savanah
1 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
4 Vexing Devil
3 Kird Ape
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress

This is also incredibly fast. Emissary is a great 2 drop, and awesome with Experiment One. Rampager is awesome at winning Goyf wars, or any-other-creature-that-any-other-creature-want-to-block wars, while still dealing dmg to the dome.
Any suggestions here?

Side is extremely trown togheter now, but has lots of combo hate that don't make me leave mana open, fast grave-hate, and a creature-hate that I particulary love:
3 Thalia
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Searing Blaze
3 Tormord's Crypt
Any thoughts here too?
Will be testing starting from next weekend.

@Warrior's Lesson: Don't think it is worth it anywhere. Too conditional.
@Chained to the Rocks: Maybe being suscetible to Abrupt Decay AND Wasteland might make enough of an argument to make it's inclusion bad.

[Fatal]

What you do against Terminus ?

[Admiral_Arzar]

What you do against Terminus ?

You lose horribly, if for some reason that wasn't blatantly obvious.

[emt37]

What you do against Terminus ?

If you're playing against miracle just don't play your entire hand.

[Megadeus]

It's there a big zoo thread? Our is this the thread for that as well? I am thinking about trying out a variant of the deck and would like input on what is good and bad and such

[thefreakaccident]

Scatman I need to test your list... I still think that proclamation has a place, at very least in the sideboard as anti-mass removal tech.


Spark elemental is bad, but three of them (or a combination of them and guide) coming back from proclamation can win games, however, that is a 'star aligning moment' that only results in a maximum of 9 damage.

[Neffy]

I've taken my Zoo to two tournies these last months and went 5-1 and 4-2 of around 25-34 players.

My list is
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Price of Progress
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Sylvan Library
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager

#60
Sideboard:

2 Electrickery
3 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Krosan Grip
3 Oblivion Ring

This last tournie I met:

12post
G1 built up a very fast clock and killed my opponent before he could accelerate. G2 i get him burned and beaten down to three but dont hold a bolt for the finish. He casts thragtusk and everything falls together. G3 I establish board pressure quickly and PoP helps a lot!
1-0

No.pun Jund
G1 he plays slow lands and i beat him to death quickly, and fails by blocking my goyf with exalted trigger with his own. G2 He gets ooze and double DRS out and I cant cope. G3 G1 repeats.
2-0

Miracle control
I start with GG and try to beat him fast. Goyfs are rendered useless by rest in peace and top+CB doesnt make it easier. Im killed by 4/4 bitches with wings
G2 i keep hand with land, nacatl, nacatl, nacatl, goyf, some other stuff. I get all nacatls out and beat for 6 (only 6, since i fetched savannah and failed to draw any lands for 4 turns...) a few times. I draw the fourth nacatl, but keep it in case of Terminus. He miracles Terminus, i play my last nacatl and after that lose to top+CB again. Krosan grip never seen...
2-1

Miracle yet again.
Even though I get Sylvan library out early - CB+top and angels hit the table.. I lose.
2-2

I completely forgot who and what I faced in this match.. I won though! :)
3-2

team portugal
I play some dudes, he plays some dudes, I kill his dude, he hymns me from some dudes, I kill him still.
G2 he gets GftT my dude and sticks goyf, I path it and casts some more dudes. Begin to beat. He plays snap and gives Brainstorm flashback to find removal and doesnt. He then remembers the GftT in the yard...
4-2


It was as always fun to play Zoo and there were even another Zoo deck besides mine which I was glad to see. Super-Fair decks ftw! MVP was sylvan library.
I am really having issues with miracles as everything they do is problematic for our deck. Im thinking of EE against tokens (but this easily gets countered by CB for 0 with lands on top). 4 Krosan Grips seem a bit too much for top/CB too?

[crow_mw]

Grats for the finish. I am especially glad to see big zoo do well. I do wonder, how was Ghor-Clan Rampager doing for you. I know he is a beast in other formats, but wouldn't a solid 3 CMC beater do better?

[Neffy]

Grats for the finish. I am especially glad to see big zoo do well. I do wonder, how was Ghor-Clan Rampager doing for you. I know he is a beast in other formats, but wouldn't a solid 3 CMC beater do better?

EDIT: would you describe my deck as big Zoo? I normally think of those decks using knights and elspeth, where mine would be something between Zoo and Fast Zoo. Mostly Zoo.

Well he is brilliant IMO. RG is easy to establish with our manabase.
He is quite good as finisher as he cannot be countered and you simple target an unblocked dude for maximum damage. It helps winning goyf wars instantly and still deals extra damage which otherwise would just not go through opponents blocking creature (effectively giving them an extra turn (if 2+ damage).

I am playing thalia mainboard, and here he also helps, like vexing devil, lavamancer and qasali as they all do their effects around Thalia. I am thinking of testing 3. Though I dont know how to make room..

[Megadeus]

I was thinking of playing Smiter, but in a Big Zoo Variant with KOTR and Noble Hierarch and Such. I'll post a list later on today and ask for your opinions because I would like to play Zoo at the legacy local next week.

[thefreakaccident]

I played a mock tournament with a few buddies of mine on that list I made before, playing nothing but delver variants in all three rounds.

Experiment one basically won all of my games getting out of bolt and eventually goyf range. The regen ability was also relevant. Forked bolt's utility was also felt pretty strongly.
Proclamation ate counters mostly, however, in most cases had I had price of progress it might've resolved. On a different note, my opponents were playing mostly basics, and when proclamation did resolve, they scooped.

[Megadeus]

Hey guys I was curious about a few things regarding Big Zoo. What is the general land count? I was thinking around 20 with ~8-10 Fetches, 8-9 Duals and maybe a Karakas. Is Karakas Wrong in this deck? Also has anyone tried Fleecemane Lion? I was thinking about playing him as a budget kind of Goyf. I have access to 2 Goyf, but Im not sure if I would even want more or not

[woremak]

Hi, so I was directed here from the old thread. To repost:
Hey I 4-0'd a Legacy event at my LGS last night with this list:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Goblin Guide
4 Dryad Militant
2 Firedrinker Satyr (I was going to play Vexing Devil but couldn't find them in time, I wouldn't play Satyr again)

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Boros Charm
4 Warrior's Lesson

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest

I beat High Tide, Maverick, UR Delver with Young Pyromancer and Reanimator. The only deck I felt like I shouldn't have beaten was Reanimator. Just some food for thought. When I drew Lesson against my non-combo opponents it was awesome.

And to answer a comment

Interesting list. Loses to Chalice, but I mean whatever right? haha. So lesson is really good then?
I played Ancient Grudge in my board (sweet nombo with Dryad Militant) but yeah, I don't think this deck can beat Chalice, really. I'm certainly not the first person to suggest 1-drop zoo but I think Warrior's Lesson really makes the deck go. It allows you to play like Affinity; vomiting your hand and then Thoughtcasting. The only difference is that while Affinity plays a few very powerful cards and a ton of chaff all of these cards are undercosted threats.

[zulander]

Hey guys I was curious about a few things regarding Big Zoo. What is the general land count? I was thinking around 20 with ~8-10 Fetches, 8-9 Duals and maybe a Karakas. Is Karakas Wrong in this deck? Also has anyone tried Fleecemane Lion? I was thinking about playing him as a budget kind of Goyf. I have access to 2 Goyf, but Im not sure if I would even want more or not

I'm working on a Big Zoo list right now and it's done well so far. I cut Knight's in favor of Loxodon Smiter because I think he's better in just about every matchup except show and tell/reanimator. I also play 2 goyfs 2 Ooze cuz I don't own 4 goyf (better than Fleecemain Lion imho). Here's the list I played:


Mana: 22
3 wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 wasteland

Beats: 25
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Thalia
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte

Other: 13
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Boros Charm
2 Sylvan Library
1 Chandra, Pyromaster


Sideboard: 15

3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pyroblast
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Electrickery

[Richard Cheese]

Hey guys I was curious about a few things regarding Big Zoo. What is the general land count? I was thinking around 20 with ~8-10 Fetches, 8-9 Duals and maybe a Karakas. Is Karakas Wrong in this deck? Also has anyone tried Fleecemane Lion? I was thinking about playing him as a budget kind of Goyf. I have access to 2 Goyf, but Im not sure if I would even want more or not

Probably more like 22-24, depending on whether you're running P. Fires or not.

[Megadeus]

Whoops. I'm playing 21 tonight... I'll let you know how that goes!

[Megadeus]

Sorry for the double post, just updating for a tourney report. I went 3-0-1 Draw in top 8 with my big zoo variant. I had a blast. I didn't realize how fun it would be. Here's the list I played for reference:

4 Nacatl
3 Pridemage
2 Goyf
4 Noble Hierarch
4 KOTR
2 Teeg
3 Lavamancer
3 Loxodon Smiter

4 Bolt
3 Pfire
4 Path
2 Library
2 GSZ

2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 each basic
2 Grove
4 Foothills
2 Windswept
4 Mesa

SB:
3 REB
3 Destructive Revelry
3 Thalia
1 Karakas
3 RIP
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 KGrip


Round 1: MUD

My opponent was talking about how he borrow the deck and told me what it was so I had some good info going in because I knew the guy he borrowed it from and I knew the list pretty well. Im on the play and instead of going for a T1 Nacatl I go T1 Hierarch because I want to be able to drop a T1 Pridemage with Blow mana open just incase he does something nuts. He plays chalice for 1. I go Smiter. Then T3 Smiter. He plays a lodestone, but he dies to my Smiters as he has no good answer to them.

game 2, he plays Grim Monolith off of City of traitors. Then Voltaic Key. Then Thran Dynamo. LOL. T2 Wurmcoils me and T3 Steel Hellkites me. I scoop

Game 3 I open on a Hierarch and he doesnt do much as my pridemage and Smiter beat him to a pulp.

Boarding:
-3 PFire
-1 Teeg
+3 Revelry
+1 KGrip

1-0

Round 2: Maverick

I thought this would be a poor MU but it ended up being solid. Basically as long as he doesnt get down a KOTR, my Nacatl plus an exalted trigger or two makes him bigger than basically his whole board. I beat him down with Nacatl plus 2 Exalted bros to kill him. Game 2 he gets down MoM, plus Sylvan Safekeeper, and eventually a Stoneforge for BSkull Which I scoop to. Game three, again Nacatly plus exalted just is amazing vs Thalia and Scooze. I just Path any KOTR and am bigger than everything else. He did have thalia and went to equip Jitte to get it active and I flashed in Sulfur Elemental for the ultimate beating.

Board:
-2 Teeg
+1 KGrip
+1 Sulfur Elemental

Round 3: UR Delver

I feel like this is in my favor. I know Andrew said he is poor vs RUG so I figure that somewhat for the same reason Im good vs him, except I play 11 MB Removal spells whereas RUG doesnt. G1 I have a double Bolt, Double Path draw. Nacatl gets deep and KOTR finishes it off. G2 he has a decent start with Guide and he removes everything in its path and unfortunately his PoP gets him there. Game 3 On the play I have a very good hand of Nacatl, 2 Lands, Smiter, Bolt Pfire Path. I didnt lose the game. Smiter is sich vs these daze decks that dont have men that can actually beat him. His double Guide draw is decent but once I stabilize at 9 life or something he cant do much to me.

Overall it felt great. Smiter was a last minute call, and damn was it awesome. Ill probably be dropping a KOTR for the 4th Smiter. GSZ was meh. Maybe necessary, but I didnt like it that much. Luckily I dodged the Mono U Omni tell deck and the ANT deck. Thalia is solid though. What would you guys say is good SB tech for combo decks? Im not so sure that Thalia is enough, even though having access to Thalia, plus a good clock seems like it may be enough.

[Lemnear]

Those decks always confuse me. All I see is Maverick + 4 Nacatl, as a lot of Zoo staples are missing and instead there are KotR, GSZ, Thalia, Teeg, etc. which I fit to Maverick.

Congratz dood!

[Megadeus]

True in a sense. You aren't as balls to the wall I would think. Like I said, nacatl + an exalted trigger or two makes it so that he is always the biggest dude on the board. I didn't realize how great pride mage was. Having a watch wolf that kills off batterskulls, jittes, and even a SNT omni is just great. I would like to play vs some various combo decks to see what the match up feels like because I may want to play this again for a GPT coming up next weekend

[zulander]

The old manabase (fetchlands count for all three colours) had 14 green, 16 red and 12 white sources. The new one has 11 green, 15 red and 10 white sources. This is a bit worse in comparison to before, but we feel like the upside is good enough to try it out. The additional damage mostly doesn't matter, because we should be the aggressor in most of our matchups. Additionaly, Red Elemental Blasts suck in the board. I added a third Path to Exile for the tempo matchups, to get rid of Tarmogoyf and two Sulfuric Vortex as a lategame card against decks, that can stall us out or remove our board (like UW Miracle, Enchantress or UB Tezzeret). This leaves me with one free slot for a 'bullet'. Currently I would play Electrickery in this slot. It is great against Lingering Souls, Elves and Death'n Taxes. As of now, this is my current list:

4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl

4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt

4 Plateau
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Savannah
4 Stomping Ground
4 Taiga

Sideboard:
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Electrickery
3 Path to Exile
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Sulfuric Vortex

I can only recommend you to try this out and not to underestimate the amount of damage the deck can deal in the shortest amount of time. I had numerous turn three kills with it.

(Sorry for my bad english.)

Is Boar better than Ooze though? I feel like Ooze is better in a deck where you're playing 8 bolts.

[Richard Cheese]

Those decks always confuse me. All I see is Maverick + 4 Nacatl, as a lot of Zoo staples are missing and instead there are KotR, GSZ, Thalia, Teeg, etc. which I fit to Maverick.

Congratz dood!

Yeah the lines are pretty blurred at this point. Basically with Big Zoo you're trading protection and utility for bigger threats like Nacatl and Goyf. I think there are cases to be made for both approaches; Zoo has better removal, more reach, and isn't as susceptible to things like E. Plague or Golgari Charm, but Maverick is more resistant to spot removal, stronger against combo, and generally has more lines of play available. That's just like...my opinion though man.

[Megadeus]

Yeah the lines are pretty blurred at this point. Basically with Big Zoo you're trading protection and utility for bigger threats like Nacatl and Goyf. I think there are cases to be made for both approaches; Zoo has better removal, more reach, and isn't as susceptible to things like E. Plague or Golgari Charm, but Maverick is more resistant to spot removal, stronger against combo, and generally has more lines of play available. That's just like...my opinion though man.

I definitely see what you are saying. To be fair, with Zoo, you get more high threat density so you dont care about spot removal as much. Also vs combo, yes you lose hate bears a bit, but I still play Teeg and Thalia. And the clock on Zoo is generally a bit quicker. I mean Im not saying you are wrong, Im just stating Zoos case vs these points.

[Megadeus]

Even though the list really was just punishing maverick with Nacatl, Ill take it :p

[Richard Cheese]

I definitely see what you are saying. To be fair, with Zoo, you get more high threat density so you dont care about spot removal as much. Also vs combo, yes you lose hate bears a bit, but I still play Teeg and Thalia. And the clock on Zoo is generally a bit quicker. I mean Im not saying you are wrong, Im just stating Zoos case vs these points.

Yeah I agree for the most part, Maverick is just better in a meta where everyone is running Snapcaster/StP/Stoneforge/Batterskull, which was the case a while ago. Now that it's all Delver tempo decks, maybe it's time for Punishing Zoo to rise again.

Speaking of, how did Shawn lose his top 8 match?

[lordofthepit]

Yeah I agree for the most part, Maverick is just better in a meta where everyone is running Snapcaster/StP/Stoneforge/Batterskull, which was the case a while ago. Now that it's all Delver tempo decks, maybe it's time for Punishing Zoo to rise again.

Speaking of, how did Shawn lose his top 8 match?

Ironically, two of my losses were to Delver decks. One in round 6 of Swiss to UWR Delver, and one in top 8 against RUG Delver. I also beat a RUG Delver deck in round 5. All three matches ended in two games.

I haven't seen the perspective from the camera yet, but IIRC, I kept iffy 6-card hands in both games (which included Dryad Arbor). Jacob cantripped into three quick Goyfs in game 1, which overwhelmed my removal and forced me to play into Daze and Spell Pierce. I was able to stabilize briefly with a Knight in game 1, but he ended up cantripping into a lethal Brainstorm.

Game 2 featured a Tarmogoyf that went unchecked for about three turns while he messed up my manabase and Forced my Knight. I played an Explosives for two, but he responded with a Delver. I luckily drew into a Swords; since I only had two mana, I had to use my Bolt and Swords on his two creatures, playing into Daze (but fortunately he didn't have it). This left me with a useless Explosives on two at 5 life. He dropped Goose, and I responded with Bog and Nacatl, but before I could get the game under control, he found two Bolts.

I still feel pretty comfortable with the matchup, which I think is usually favorable, but I think I'm going to try to fit some Path to Exiles in the 75 to shore things up a little more. Please let me know if you guys see any misplays on my part! (I had one minor one that I caught right away where I allowed a Brainstorm to resolve before casting Swords on his Tarmogoyf. There were only sorceries and lands in the yard at the time, so allowing Brainstorm to resolve gave him an extra life, but it may have affected what he put back.)

I might write a more detailed report if anyone's interested.

[Megadeus]

Ironically, two of my losses were to Delver decks. One in round 6 of Swiss to UWR Delver, and one in top 8 against RUG Delver. I also beat a RUG Delver deck in round 5. All three matches ended in two games.

I haven't seen the perspective from the camera yet, but IIRC, I kept iffy 6-card hands in both games (which included Dryad Arbor). Jacob cantripped into three quick Goyfs in game 1, which overwhelmed my removal and forced me to play into Daze and Spell Pierce. I was able to stabilize briefly with a Knight in game 1, but he ended up cantripping into a lethal Brainstorm.

Game 2 featured a Tarmogoyf that went unchecked for about three turns while he messed up my manabase and Forced my Knight. I played an Explosives for two, but he responded with a Delver. I luckily drew into a Swords; since I only had two mana, I had to use my Bolt and Swords on his two creatures, playing into Daze (but fortunately he didn't have it). This left me with a useless Explosives on two at 5 life. He dropped Goose, and I responded with Bog and Nacatl, but before I could get the game under control, he found two Bolts.

I still feel pretty comfortable with the matchup, which I think is usually favorable, but I think I'm going to try to fit some Path to Exiles in the 75 to shore things up a little more. Please let me know if you guys see any misplays on my part! (I had one minor one where I allowed a Brainstorm to resolve before casting Swords on his Tarmogoyf. There were only sorceries and lands in the yard at the time, so allowing Brainstorm to resolve gave him an extra life, but it may have affected what he put back.)

I might write a more detailed report if anyone's interested.

Im definitely interested. Im a fan of Smiter. Tempo cries when you cast him ;)

Triple Goyf is real rough though. PFire is not amazing vs that and you only have 4 Swords.

[zulander]

How do you guys plan on dealing with True-Name Nemesis?

[HammafistRoob]

Probably just racing it. Just bring in some number of Ancient Grudge to deal with nasty equipment.

[P-E]

tariff will shine haha
in Naya colors you don't have much answers: tariff, wrath, runed halo

[Valtrix]

Don't forget about the awesome Celestial Flare! Double white sucks though.

[lordofthepit]

How do you guys plan on dealing with True-Name Nemesis?

I think this card will be really annoying for Big Zoo decks like mine, since it can stonewall our biggest attacker, and we don't have the ability to swarm that small Zoo does. It's also pretty annoying against small Zoo since it's a one-sided Abyss against anything besides Tarmogoyf that we can't remove.

If True-Name Nemesis becomes a really big thing in the format, I think the answer is to either "go bigger" or "go faster". Big Zoo may consider taking a page out of Maverick's book: Mother of Runes, Sword of Fire and Ice, fliers, or Elspeth to bypass the Nemesis. Engineered Explosives can also do work here. Small Zoo will need to go faster with creatures like Steppe Lynx and bring back options like Fireblast.

[Megadeus]

I am kind of worried about it becoming big as well. I think having a way, like Elspeth, to jump dudes is the best bet. The issue is TNN will probably run Spell Pierce and Daze and such so resolving a 4 Mana PW seems like it may be difficult. Ajani, Caller of the Pride maybe?

I just played my Big Zoo list to a hot 2-2 (really 1-3) finish. Only one match up actually seemed unwinnable, it was just one of those nights where Variance decided to punch me in the nads. Round 1 I got Belched, if he had not have Turn 1'd me every game I wouldve won with Teeg/Thalia, so basically it is winnable if I dont die T1. Round two I stomped Faerie Stompy. I went T1 Nacatl and T1's Trinisphere and I laughed because I didnt care. Smiter was awesome here. Round 3 was URW Stoneblade. Actually unwinnable. I figured out every reason why this deck stopped getting played. Between, 3 Bolts, 3 Swords, Stoneforge for BSkull/Jitte, and SNapcaster for removal, this match up is unwinnable. He killed literally everything that I played every game. Fortunately it was the guy I rode with and he gave me the win so that we would both have a chance at top 8. I told him he shouldnt but he did anyway. Round 4 Shardless BUG, I mulled to 5 in games 1 and 3, and got detroyed in those games. I won a super grindy game 2 because PFire is the stonecold nuts vs them. I think the match up is super winnable, I just got destroyed by awful mulligans. My buddy who scooped to me in round 3 also lost and I laughed because then we both missed top 8.

[SirTylerGalt]

Attack with creatures. Nemesis blocks a creature. Cast Skullcrack before damage. Nemesis dies.

Credit to Valtrix for making me think about this: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26938-Protection-and-damage-can-t-be-prevented-effects

[Megadeus]

That seems so incredibly narrow. They have to be on defense... I guess in turbo zoo where you want more damage to the dome its good, but in Big Zoo, not being able to hit dudes is pretty bad.

[ironclad8690]

I am kind of worried about it becoming big as well. I think having a way, like Elspeth, to jump dudes is the best bet. The issue is TNN will probably run Spell Pierce and Daze and such so resolving a 4 Mana PW seems like it may be difficult. Ajani, Caller of the Pride maybe?

I just played my Big Zoo list to a hot 2-2 (really 1-3) finish. Only one match up actually seemed unwinnable, it was just one of those nights where Variance decided to punch me in the nads. Round 1 I got Belched, if he had not have Turn 1'd me every game I wouldve won with Teeg/Thalia, so basically it is winnable if I dont die T1. Round two I stomped Faerie Stompy. I went T1 Nacatl and T1's Trinisphere and I laughed because I didnt care. Smiter was awesome here. Round 3 was URW Stoneblade. Actually unwinnable. I figured out every reason why this deck stopped getting played. Between, 3 Bolts, 3 Swords, Stoneforge for BSkull/Jitte, and SNapcaster for removal, this match up is unwinnable. He killed literally everything that I played every game. Fortunately it was the guy I rode with and he gave me the win so that we would both have a chance at top 8. I told him he shouldnt but he did anyway. Round 4 Shardless BUG, I mulled to 5 in games 1 and 3, and got detroyed in those games. I won a super grindy game 2 because PFire is the stonecold nuts vs them. I think the match up is super winnable, I just got destroyed by awful mulligans. My buddy who scooped to me in round 3 also lost and I laughed because then we both missed top 8.

What do you guys think of mindbreak trap? VS the really fast combo decks that we "auto-lose" to, it seems really good. Backed up by thalia/teeg, you should have storm bases covered.

[ScatmanX]

That seems so incredibly narrow. They have to be on defense... I guess in turbo zoo where you want more damage to the dome its good, but in Big Zoo, not being able to hit dudes is pretty bad.
Then again, playing Ghor-Clan Rampager is just plain better in fast zoo, dealing even more dmg to the dome.

Did some testing on the Grull Blitz (fast zoo) deck, and loved it. Rampager and Proclamation of Rebirth are both awesome.

[Megadeus]

What do you guys think of mindbreak trap? VS the really fast combo decks that we "auto-lose" to, it seems really good. Backed up by thalia/teeg, you should have storm bases covered.

I have a personal vendetta against the card. I think it's awful. But if my store were heavy fast combo I would consider it. The problem is, I think the only MUs you want it are vs TES and Belcher. And I guess SI but no-one plays that

[Richard Cheese]

What do you guys think of mindbreak trap? VS the really fast combo decks that we "auto-lose" to, it seems really good. Backed up by thalia/teeg, you should have storm bases covered.

Thalia and Teeg are generally better. For one, they provide a clock rather than just gumming up your hand. More importantly, every good combo deck runs protection in the form of silence or discard. Mindbreak trap really only works when nobody expects you to have it, so they try to go off without protection. If you really want to devote a significant portion of your board to combo, look at Canonist, Surgical, red blasts for High Tide and Show and Tell.

[nedleeds]

I have a personal vendetta against the card. I think it's awful. But if my store were heavy fast combo I would consider it. The problem is, I think the only MUs you want it are vs TES and Belcher. And I guess SI but no-one plays that

Even white leyline is better than MBT for a Zoo deck, and white leyline is still pretty awful. They have to have an empty kill and it wouldn't be crazy to have a card like Electrickery vs. DnT / Elves / Goblins in a zoo sideboard anyway.

[Megadeus]

Even white leyline is better than MBT for a Zoo deck, and white leyline is still pretty awful. They have to have an empty kill and it wouldn't be crazy to have a card like Electrickery vs. DnT / Elves / Goblins in a zoo sideboard anyway.

Truth. I guess White Leyline has some corner uses as well against any random person who wants to bring Mono Black 20 discard spells.dec.

[zulander]

I have a personal vendetta against the card. I think it's awful. But if my store were heavy fast combo I would consider it. The problem is, I think the only MUs you want it are vs TES and Belcher. And I guess SI but no-one plays that


I think going into a large unknown meta it's worth it, this is my current SB

3 MBT
3 Pyroblast
2 Crypt
1 Surgical
2 Canonist
1 KGrip
1 A. Grudge

I still have 2 slots open, not sure what they're gonna be yet. Leaning towards a 2nd ancient grudge.

[lordofthepit]

In case any of you are interested, I wrote up a report for SCG Seattle: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26948-FIGHT-ME!-Top-8-at-SCG-Seattle-with-Zoo

Thanks to all the Zoo players for discussing tech over the years. I got a chance to meet feline briefly at the end of the night, and I'd like to give her special thanks for this new primer!

[Megadeus]

Good stuff and great report!

I played in a DC GPT today with my list from my last tourney except -1 KGrip in the board and +1 Pridemage.

Round 1: Eva Green

Lost the notes for this one, I do remember it went to G3, and He ended up stabilizing at a low life total. I know game 1 I got blown out by his 1 of deed, and G2 I aggro'd him. Game 3 I had 3 KOTRs (all 10/10s) while he had 3 Goyfs and I ended up almost losing because he used his Golgari Charms as pseudo Fogs and Almost got me with KOTRs tapped down.

1-0

Round 2: Shardless BUG

G1 I got him to 8 and started beating in with Hierarch until I found a Kitty cat and I took game 1. Game 2 I think he stabilized with a couple of Goyfs and he ended up getting all my dudes off of the board. He played chill as well. Interesting anti PFire tech. Game 3 I think he just had a good draw with T2 Liliana forcing me to sacrifice my Pridemage and I never got a decent board presence.

1-1

Round 3: Death and Taxes

G1 I had the infinite removal draw with a Nacatl plus Hierach and never let him equip and attack with any of his men while I beat him for 4. G2 Im not quite sure what happened I just remember him having some flicker wisps and me missing my Pridemage to kill off his Jitte when he STPd it. I died because of it. Game 3 He cataclysms at one point and I punt by not floating green off of my grove to hit his Vial, and I draw lands and start playing threats while keeping mana open to kill off any dudes he can vial in. Eventually I miss killing Jitte again with Pridemage (man I suck) but my removal is just too much for him and I take it.

2-1

Round 4 Deathblade

G1 He gets a Batterskull, a million planeswalkers, a couple of Bobs, a couple of Stoneforge Mystics, and a couple of DRS. Yeah I did not win this one. Game 2, I get kitty cat beats, the hit with Hierarch for a bit while I kill off his SFM for Skull, Then PFire all of his other dudes, then Smiter Comes down and smite him. Game 3: I start with Mana dork while he doesnt have DRS. I just draw endless men off of Library, while he is struggling to find answers. He gets a BSkull down but I find GSZ for Pridemage. Im not going to DC but he is, he asks for me to scoop him in. Unfortunately I came to at least make prizes and I didn't really want to scoop him into top 8.

Top 8: URW StoneBlade (same deck that I played wednesday)

Same deck, different pilot. I knew it would be tough and it was. I keep him off of BSkull while I hit him with Pridemage. EVentually he succumbs to Nacatl. Game 2 I board out Goyfs in anticipation of RIP and bring in Destructive Revelrys, He gets BSkull and Sword of FaI, but I slowly whittle his dudes away and kill BSkull while he taps out to DSphere a smiter. Eventually all of my Pridemages kill all of his equipmonks. Pridemage is SOOO GREAT. Also Library supplies me with infinite gas. That card is absolutely insane.

into top 4 I lose to Burn. Yuck. Uneventfull but whatever. We split top 4 prizes and my buddy playing said burn deck takes the tourney down. LOL.

Props
-Sylvan Library for constantly providing me infinite gas.
-Path to Exile for being insane vs decks that don't run basics

Slops
-Burn for ripping like a champ vs me
-Myself for missing Pridemage triggers to kill off Jitte multiple times.

[lordofthepit]

Good stuff and great report!

I played in a DC GPT today with my list from my last tourney except -1 KGrip in the board and +1 Pridemage.

Round 1: Eva Green

Lost the notes for this one, I do remember it went to G3, and He ended up stabilizing at a low life total. I know game 1 I got blown out by his 1 of deed, and G2 I aggro'd him. Game 3 I had 3 KOTRs (all 10/10s) while he had 3 Goyfs and I ended up almost losing because he used his Golgari Charms as pseudo Fogs and Almost got me with KOTRs tapped down.

1-0

Round 2: Shardless BUG

G1 I got him to 8 and started beating in with Hierarch until I found a Kitty cat and I took game 1. Game 2 I think he stabilized with a couple of Goyfs and he ended up getting all my dudes off of the board. He played chill as well. Interesting anti PFire tech. Game 3 I think he just had a good draw with T2 Liliana forcing me to sacrifice my Pridemage and I never got a decent board presence.

1-1

Round 3: Death and Taxes

G1 I had the infinite removal draw with a Nacatl plus Hierach and never let him equip and attack with any of his men while I beat him for 4. G2 Im not quite sure what happened I just remember him having some flicker wisps and me missing my Pridemage to kill off his Jitte when he STPd it. I died because of it. Game 3 He cataclysms at one point and I punt by not floating green off of my grove to hit his Vial, and I draw lands and start playing threats while keeping mana open to kill off any dudes he can vial in. Eventually I miss killing Jitte again with Pridemage (man I suck) but my removal is just too much for him and I take it.

2-1

Round 4 Deathblade

G1 He gets a Batterskull, a million planeswalkers, a couple of Bobs, a couple of Stoneforge Mystics, and a couple of DRS. Yeah I did not win this one. Game 2, I get kitty cat beats, the hit with Hierarch for a bit while I kill off his SFM for Skull, Then PFire all of his other dudes, then Smiter Comes down and smite him. Game 3: I start with Mana dork while he doesnt have DRS. I just draw endless men off of Library, while he is struggling to find answers. He gets a BSkull down but I find GSZ for Pridemage. Im not going to DC but he is, he asks for me to scoop him in. Unfortunately I came to at least make prizes and I didn't really want to scoop him into top 8.

Top 8: URW StoneBlade (same deck that I played wednesday)

Same deck, different pilot. I knew it would be tough and it was. I keep him off of BSkull while I hit him with Pridemage. EVentually he succumbs to Nacatl. Game 2 I board out Goyfs in anticipation of RIP and bring in Destructive Revelrys, He gets BSkull and Sword of FaI, but I slowly whittle his dudes away and kill BSkull while he taps out to DSphere a smiter. Eventually all of my Pridemages kill all of his equipmonks. Pridemage is SOOO GREAT. Also Library supplies me with infinite gas. That card is absolutely insane.

into top 4 I lose to Burn. Yuck. Uneventfull but whatever. We split top 4 prizes and my buddy playing said burn deck takes the tourney down. LOL.

Props
-Sylvan Library for constantly providing me infinite gas.
-Path to Exile for being insane vs decks that don't run basics

Slops
-Burn for ripping like a champ vs me
-Myself for missing Pridemage triggers to kill off Jitte multiple times.


Well done! This is the list you posted on the last page?

[Megadeus]

it is indded. Like I said same 75 other than -KGrip in the Board +Pridemage. I loved that change. I think I can cut down some number of destructive revelry, though there are a lot of chalice decks in my meta. What do you guys think about the board? It is a little tossed together. Like I literally put it together 20 minutes before a tourney and havent touched it since. Do you guys agree with boarding in REB vs Shardless BUG? I have caught Ancestrals and Jaces coming down a lot. Do you guys think since Im not running Wasteland Thalia is lackluster and should just be canonist? Is Sulfur Elemental even needed? I do like being able to kill Mom though. So many questions!

[DragoFireheart]

TNN seems like a huge issue for this deck. With 3 power and nearly impossible to kill, it could easily stall Zoo.

[Megadeus]

Agreed. I am interested to see how the card plays out. I may try out some Ghor Clan Rampagers. Trample still goes over that bitches 1 toughness.

[zulander]

So I'll be fine tuning my deck this week for Dallas, here's what I'm looking at so far:

Mana: 22
3 Wasteland
9 Fetches
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
3 Basics

Creatures: 23
4 Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Bloodbraid Elf

Other: 15
1 Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
4 Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path/Swords (not sure yet)

Board:
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 REB
2 Canonist
2 Surgical
2 ORing
1 KGrip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 XXX?

[zulander]

Here's a report of my 6-3 finish at SCGDallas this past weekend. I ended up in 45th place out of 251. Deck was fun all day!

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Here's a report of my 6-3 finish at SCGDallas this past weekend. I ended up in 45th place out of 251. Deck was fun all day!


Very minimalist.

[Megadeus]

A very Zoo report.

[zulander]

Very minimalist.



A very Zoo report.


All the lulz belong to you.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27034-Big-Zu-with-Big-Zoo-45th-at-SCG-Dallas&p=765354#post765354

[Qweerios]

Rancor and Skullcrack look like great techs against Nemesis in a Zoo deck.

[Kuyira]

Not long ago I played something similar to Shawn Yu's punishing Zoo list and the True-Name Nemsis really is a problem unless you draw Elspeth, Knight-Errant and she actually doesn't get countered. If Zoo wants to survive, we need to come up with a decent way to beat it. I feel the current list has a huge amount of trouble to actually beat it compared to G/W Maverick with the option to use a pro blue sword and Mother of Runes, but I'm trying to think of ways to make it work. If you want to know why, I just like Zoo that much and want to keep playing it.

So the options of fighting TNN:

- Protect from blue
- (Mass) removal
- Trample over
- Fly over

Any other option I am forgetting? My plan is to make a list of cards per category that would be an option to use maindeck and filter the best ones.

[Tormod]

re: TNN
This may sound a little nuts, but nutty enough that its awesome.

Garruk Wildspeaker
Starting Loyalty 3
+1 untap 2 lands
-1 make a 3/3 beast token
-4 all your dudes get trample until the end of turn.

Zoo typically has 2-3 guys on the table, 2 if you're conservative.

Scenario: your opponent's True Name Nemesis is making your attacks unprofitable. You have a couple dudes in play, you play Garruk +1 untap 2 lands and play a 3rd ready so next turn you can ultimate garruk to attack in for the win with your trampling horde of goyf 8/7 (garruk dies+1/+1 to goyf), 6/6 Nactl and 5/5 Pridemage.

what if your opponent attacks your garruk, knocking down his loyalty?
I this case the TNN is cleared out of the way for blocking and you attack.

what if your opponent board wipes?
well, he kills own TNN too, and you have a Garruk pumping out 3/3 tokens.

Garruk could go into Elpseths slot. I think this idea is good enough to play 2 Garruk vs TNN

see disclaimer, I told you it was nutty

[Megadeus]

unfortunately garruk seems just worse than elspeth

[ironclad8690]

It would be cool, the only thing is that vs a deck such as UWR delver they have so much removal not to mention mana denial to keep us off of wildspeaker mana. Still, it is worth testing!

I already really liked the 3 Enigneered Explosives out of Shawn Yu's sideboard, but now with True Name I REALLY like that card. What do you guys think?

[Kuyira]

I tend to agree with Megadeus, the Garruk seems like a worse Elspeth, K-E. I mean, a Knight of the Reliquary that gets +3/+3 and flying + any exalted triggers should be swinging for lethal.

Anyway, back to my initial idea. I feel the card against TNN should preferably be tutorable by GSZ or Kot Rand, cost no more than CC 3 or 4 and it should be usable more than once. This is what I came up with so far:

Protect from blue:
Blue swords: kind of need SFM’s to tutor for these
Mother of Runes: doesn’t benefit the actuall aggro plan
Other pro-blue cards I found seemed to be to low-impact, suggestions are welcome

Removal (mass):
Ratchet Bomb: hits whatever cards we have in play on the same CC
Engineered Explosives: same as with Ratchet Bomb

Trample:
Kessig Wolf Run: tutorable, requires 3+ mana to activate, risky against Wasteland
Skarrg, the Rage pits: same as Kessig Wolf run, without option to sink more mana in it
Rancor: only 1 mana, seems good on several creatures in Zoo, risky against StoP
Armadillo cloak / behemoth sledge: pro blue sword seems better
Elvish Herder: tutorable, easy to remove
Skarrg Guildmage: tutorable, good when flooded, easy to remove

Fly:
To be added

[ironclad8690]

I tend to agree with Megadeus, the Garruk seems like a worse Elspeth, K-E. I mean, a Knight of the Reliquary that gets +3/+3 and flying + any exalted triggers should be swinging for lethal.

Anyway, back to my initial idea. I feel the card against TNN should preferably be tutorable by GSZ or Kot Rand, cost no more than CC 3 or 4 and it should be usable more than once. This is what I came up with so far:

Protect from blue:
Blue swords: kind of need SFM’s to tutor for these
Mother of Runes: doesn’t benefit the actuall aggro plan
Other pro-blue cards I found seemed to be to low-impact, suggestions are welcome

Removal (mass):
Ratchet Bomb: hits whatever cards we have in play on the same CC
Engineered Explosives: same as with Ratchet Bomb

Trample:
Kessig Wolf Run: tutorable, requires 3+ mana to activate, risky against Wasteland
Skarrg, the Rage pits: same as Kessig Wolf run, without option to sink more mana in it
Rancor: only 1 mana, seems good on several creatures in Zoo, risky against StoP
Armadillo cloak / behemoth sledge: pro blue sword seems better
Elvish Herder: tutorable, easy to remove
Skarrg Guildmage: tutorable, good when flooded, easy to remove

Fly:
To be added

Since 50-60% of games will be post sideboard anyways, I think having at least 3-4 Pyroblast/REB type effects would be our best bet against true name. All of the true name decks will be siding our their spell based or "Hard" counters VS us, leaving the coast clear for REB to counter true name.

Even looking a little past True-Name, and into the kinds of decks where true name has the most value: qasali pridemage's stock has increased. I would not run less than 3 currently, because what hurts us most is the equipment that people will be playing alongside the TNN. We can race a 3/1, but a 5/2 from Sword of X/Y or Jitte? That will cause some serious problems.

[Kuyira]

You make a very good point. I guess the REB's help to force an Elspeth, K-E onto the table as well.

[Megadeus]

That Flash, Reach, Pro Blue Uncounterable spider. Lol. Green Sunnable, and pretty damn good vs delver.

[lordofthepit]

Not long ago I played something similar to Shawn Yu's punishing Zoo list and the True-Name Nemsis really is a problem unless you draw Elspeth, Knight-Errant and she actually doesn't get countered. If Zoo wants to survive, we need to come up with a decent way to beat it. I feel the current list has a huge amount of trouble to actually beat it compared to G/W Maverick with the option to use a pro blue sword and Mother of Runes, but I'm trying to think of ways to make it work. If you want to know why, I just like Zoo that much and want to keep playing it.


Not long ago I played something similar to Shawn Yu's punishing Zoo list and the True-Name Nemsis really is a problem unless you draw Elspeth, Knight-Errant and she actually doesn't get countered. If Zoo wants to survive, we need to come up with a decent way to beat it. I feel the current list has a huge amount of trouble to actually beat it compared to G/W Maverick with the option to use a pro blue sword and Mother of Runes, but I'm trying to think of ways to make it work. If you want to know why, I just like Zoo that much and want to keep playing it.

I've been too busy to play any Magic since Commander became legal, but I anticipated True-Name Nemesis being a significant problem, and I discouraged one of my friends from playing Zoo until we know better about how the metagame shakes out. I think Punishing Zoo is still a strong deck and one that gets underlooked by most players, so your opponents aren't prepared for you. Its strength lies in being able to demolish most creature-based decks, having a naturally strong matchup against all of the blue midrange decks, and being slightly favored against tempo builds; this meant that we could devote more sideboard slots to answering problematic matchups such as combo and Miracles, which is reflected in my sideboard choices.

True-Name Nemesis is incredibly annoying because it turns the favorable blue midrange strategies into something near 50-50, since it invalidates our plethora of targeted removal which gives us such an advantage against most creature-based decks. Whereas previously we could reliably destroy either their equipment or kill their creature, our answers are now limited to answering their equipment. While we have plenty of ways to do this (my list had 3 Pridemages and 4 GSZs in addition to 2 Grudges and 3 Explosives in the board), it's a bit annoying since needing to find an answer is always worse than simply having a threat. More importantly, True-Name Nemesis stonewalls most ways to get Exalted beats in, and only a handful of creatures are big enough to survive an attack into TNN (Knight and potentially Ooze in my list). Therefore, you reach an awkward situation where you need to overextend and have more large attackers than they have TNN + removal. My Big Zoo list in particular is in an awkward spot where it can't swarm the way small Zoo can, but it can't go over-the-top with fliers or protection the way Maverick could.

What are the best ways to get around this? Well, in my old list, you could blast the TNN while it's on the stack, jump over it with Elspeth, or blow it up with Engineered Explosives, all of which work, but none of which are particularly efficient (except for REB, but it's very reactive). There are a few other things I've been considering, although I haven't had the time to test, many of which further blur the line between Zoo and Maverick:

1) Add a few Stoneforges and add equipment like Sword of Fire and Ice. This is basically what Death and Taxes has done to adjust. In this case, I'd probably consider shaving a few Bolts, since having access to Jitte makes that less necessary. Also, Sword of Light and Shadow on any Zoo creature is absolutely insane, since it effective blanks all removal (and turns your creatures into significant threats that rebuy fallen creatures).

2) Add Mother of Runes, probably at the cost of Nacatl. This is what separates Maverick from Zoo, in my opinion. It's something I don't want to resort to, since I consider Nacatl a better creature when backed by the removal suite and exalted triggers available to Zoo, since it's a quick clock against combo and an aggressive threat that doesn't force you to overextend against control.

And then I considered several things, in increasing order of likeliness to be met with skepticism:

3) Baneslayer Angel. This was a creature that was run in several of the original Big Zoo decklists, and I actually considered re-adding this. It conveniently outraces the likes of Tombstalker, Progenitus, etc., while stopping Griselbrand cold. I hate drawing clunky cards early though, so I'm not super enthusiastic.

4) Flaring Pain. Let that sucker block with their TNN. Get them with Flaring Pain, and flash it back if they try to counter.

5) Holy Light. This is probably way too out there, especially since it kills your mana dorks.

I might be overthinking things though. The right solution could be just not giving a fuck because we're Zoo and force the opponent to react to us.

[Ziveeman]

If you're on the damage can't be prevented route, Skullcrack is probably better than Flaring Pain since it's at least a shot at the face if there is no TNN in play.

Another option would be 3 mana Ajani, since you can either buff up your dudes to be bigger than TNN (so he's just a Maze of Ith rather than an Abyss) or you can double strike a Goyf or a Knight of the Reliquary and go over in the air.

[lordofthepit]

If you're on the damage can't be prevented route, Skullcrack is probably better than Flaring Pain since it's at least a shot at the face if there is no TNN in play.

Skullcrack is definitely a consideration for this plan and it's a more aggressive one. I like being able to it back though, since it means less opportunity to get blown out by a counterspell.


Another option would be 3 mana Ajani, since you can either buff up your dudes to be bigger than TNN (so he's just a Maze of Ith rather than an Abyss) or you can double strike a Goyf or a Knight of the Reliquary and go over in the air.

That's something I've never considered. I'm not sure how well the +1 will work though, since it means you'll have to overextend for two reasons (to get counters but also to have enough board presence to threaten an alpha strike, since you can't protect Ajani against an attacking TNN). The double strike ability seems awesome for ending the game on the spot (provided you can dodge removal). It's going to be worth testing; thanks for the suggestion!

[Megadeus]

Baneslayer. YESYESYESYESYESYESYES

[Kuyira]

1) Add a few Stoneforges and add equipment like Sword of Fire and Ice. This is basically what Death and Taxes has done to adjust. In this case, I'd probably consider shaving a few Bolts, since having access to Jitte makes that less necessary. Also, Sword of Light and Shadow on any Zoo creature is absolutely insane, since it effective blanks all removal (and turns your creatures into significant threats that rebuy fallen creatures).

2) Add Mother of Runes, probably at the cost of Nacatl. This is what separates Maverick from Zoo, in my opinion. It's something I don't want to resort to, since I consider Nacatl a better creature when backed by the removal suite and exalted triggers available to Zoo, since it's a quick clock against combo and an aggressive threat that doesn't force you to overextend against control.

And then I considered several things, in increasing order of likeliness to be met with skepticism:

3) Baneslayer Angel. This was a creature that was run in several of the original Big Zoo decklists, and I actually considered re-adding this. It conveniently outraces the likes of Tombstalker, Progenitus, etc., while stopping Griselbrand cold. I hate drawing clunky cards early though, so I'm not super enthusiastic.

4) Flaring Pain. Let that sucker block with their TNN. Get them with Flaring Pain, and flash it back if they try to counter.

5) Holy Light. This is probably way too out there, especially since it kills your mana dorks.

I might be overthinking things though. The right solution could be just not giving a fuck because we're Zoo and force the opponent to react to us.

Adding stoneforges + SoFaI and perhaps a Jitte seems like a good option. I also agree on the Mother of Runes, if people wanted to consider cutting Nacatl and play Mother of Runes we wouldn't be having this discussion I guess :).

Baneslayer Angel seems very nice, but it isn't tutorable or Zenithable (X = 5 would be tough anyway I guess), making it a card you can't rely on enough. Same for Flaring Pain and Holy Light. I honestly feel some sort of solution is needed, looking at how many of the fair blue decks use the card. TNN is a brick wall.

Ajani, Caller of the Pride forfills a similar role to Elspeth, just a bit more explosive. She'd be in a similar slot too. I feel we need something you can manipulate out of your deck. Perhaps SFM + equipment is the way to go.

[zulander]

I don't think TNN is the problem as you can race it with a Nacatl, it's the equipment that makes it annoying. Make sure you play at least 3 pridmeage and play Grip/Grudge in the board (at least 2 of them).

[dagoblinguy]

hey guys ive been tinkering around with my own zoo list. a little different than everyone elses here mine is more like sligh/burn super aggro. my current answer to True-name nemesis is to just apply heavy pressure early on and keep them on the defense, and whatever they block just activate ghor-clan rampager and push through him for damage. your creature that is blocked will get through for alot of damage since TNN can only soak up one point and the creature will live. the idea is that when they untap on turn 4 they are so low that blocking is just irrelevant.

the core

4 experiment one (yes bear with me, he IS the new wild nacatl)
4 wild nacatl
4 goblin guide
4 kird ape
4 burning-tree emissary (he is incredibly bonkers and puts extreme pressure on opponent)
4 tarmogoyf

the flex slots (my current configuration)

4 vexing devil (in my experience he is better on turn 2 off a burning tree emissary, he buffs experiment 1 to 4 power even if they pay the 4 life)
4 lightning bolt
4 price of progress
4 ghor-clan rampager

20 lands (i like a basic forest and mountain, no basic plains) note this deck does not run any main deck white. its only there to buff wild nacatl and for sideboard cards.

1 mountain
1 forest
4 taiga
3 plateau
3 windswept heath
4 arid mesa
4 wooded foothills

the most explosive draw this deck is capable of is turn 1 experiment one, turn 2 burning tree -> wild nacatl and vexing devil. you end up swinging for 4 damage and they take 4 to the dome. so at the end of your second turn they are at 12 life and you have a 4/4, a 3/3, and a 2/2. on their turn if they try playing a goyf or stoneforge you can usually just bolt it / ghor clan rampage past them for the win. im a huge fan of rampager because it allows you to CRUSH batterskull merciulessly even with your dinky little 2/2. they tempo they lose in having to pick up batterskull and drop it down again is HUGE. they basically waste 4 mana on casting / activating stoneforge. then they block and you negate their lifelink.

even when you rip a more mediocre hand like t1 goblin guide into t2 burning tree, lightning bolt, wild nacatl you still put enormous pressure on your opponent. pretty much forcing them to have a board wipe. the metagame i usually play this deck in features alot of 3 color control (bug / deathblade) and tons of delver and elves. i think this deck literally cannot lose to bug or deathblade. all of your creatures can effectively swing past all their creatures. also ghor clan is usually such a huge blowout on their critical stabilizing turn.

the sideboard changes often but cards ive had success with include but are not limited to

thalia, gaddock teeg, aethersworn cannonist - i like to have a nice variety of hate bears
searing blaze - card is AMAZING against elves. and any other fair matchup.
wear/tear - usually an auto include 4 of.
sulfuric vortex - gives you reach against heavy terminus decks. also shuts down lifelink.
mindbreak trap / faerie macabre - nice turn 0 interaction for the unfair decks.


things to tinker with are thalia maindeck since i only run 2 spells (bolt and price) if price is bad in the meta id probably run 3 thalia and a chain lightning instead. or a fireblast which is another card that could possibly be added to the maindeck for some super reach.

[CaptainTwiddle]

dagoblinguy - I like how you've kept the maindeck R/G. The list seems pretty streamlined, which is really how I think Aggro Zoo should be built. The only choices I question are Price of Progress and Ghor-Clan Rampager. Perhaps it's really just a metagame call. In my local meta, for example, aside from the one guy who plays Lands every now and then, there just really aren't that many decks who are playing out 3+ nonbasics, so Price of Progress seems mediocre (though I can certainly envision scenarios where it's amazing). As for Rampager, I keep fighting over his slot. I like Rampager, but it's really just a pump spell (though, maybe that's enough). I've also considered a split of Path to Exile and Boros Charm in his slot. In general, I really like playing a few more burn spells that can hit creatures or players (Tribal Flames was may favorite card, but I just don't see a reason to play full domain in Zoo anymore).

So, assuming you're running Experiment One + Vexing Devil, I would argue that the deck has 12 flex slots, for which possible options would be:

Ghor-Clan Rampager
Price of Progress
Boros Charm
Path to Exile
Chain Lightning

[TazBuche]

It looks like the list of Dan MUSSER SCG Invi :

1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
2 Plateau
3 Taiga
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning

SB: 1 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Price of Progress
SB: 1 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 3 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 Searing Blaze
SB: 2 Sulfuric Vortex


Deck tech : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7YAFiVq8Pw

[lordofthepit]

If anyone is still interested in trying out Big Zoo, I think having a Kessig Wolf-Run or a Skarrg, the Rage Pits to let your Knights trample may be the best bet.

[zulander]

If anyone is still interested in trying out Big Zoo, I think having a Kessig Wolf-Run or a Skarrg, the Rage Pits to let your Knights trample may be the best bet.

That's actually not a bad idea...

[monovfox]

Why not play blue zoo with some stoneforges? It might most directly deal with the problem that is TNN, but it has a few strengths.


1) Being able to run Rest in Peace effectively.

2) Strong Combo Matchup pre-board (some number of spell pierce and daze)

3) Having an out to Death and Taxes in the form of jitte

4) Being able to play batterskull against control decks seems solid

5) Access to Force of will means we don't have to rely purely on our stoneforges to pull weight in those matchups


Also, Vendilion Clique is a creature, and force of will might help agaisnt control decks.

[Megadeus]

At that point, why play zoo? Sounds like you are pushing bant.

My thought was run Ghor Clan Rampager. You get a largish man who just tramples over TNN

[monovfox]

At that point, why play zoo? Sounds like you are pushing bant.

My thought was run Ghor Clan Rampager. You get a largish man who just tramples over TNN

Because, who doesn't want a wild nacatl while holding up force of will :D ?

Though, you're probably right about BANT.

[feline]

Zoo, 2013, & the steady decline:

2011 was an awesome year for Zoo, 2012 was a decline, but still had some showings, 2013 however, was even more anti climatic for the deck. Officially, the deck could be listed as dead. For list that have made it in more recent showings, many have been "Big Zoo" versions, and versions adding Punishing Fire to recur removal/burn elements.

As for why it's been on the decline, it just doesn't do enough even being so fast, a lot of stuff is faster in the format (mostly combo) & one needs some disruption to back it up, which doesn't come from the traditional Zoo colors of white/red/green.

As far as 2014 goes for Zoo, and those that keep pushing the deck, best of luck into the new year, whatever version of Zoo you decide to run, hopefully a transition with the deck will allow it to come back at some level in the format for those that love this deck.

[Mr. Safety]

The older Legacy becomes the closer it gets to Vintage.

[CaptainTwiddle]

The older Legacy becomes the closer it gets to Vintage.

That seems to make perfect sense. With respect to the implications toward a deck like Zoo, I'm slightly saddened by that fact that it doesn't really seem like a pure aggro deck is viable in the legacy format (not in the sort of "all in" style that we used to see in formats in the past). That being said, it's really invariable that at some point in eternal formats (without extensive use of the banned list) combo decks will beat out the fastest of the aggro decks. The only option for aggro then is to pack some form of disruption. As that disruption reduces the clock of the deck, card advantage becomes more important. So you have this shift from decks like Zoo to things like BUG. If we see a somewhat traditional style Zoo deck come back to prominence, I suspect it will be on the back of some very potent "hate bears" and possibly in conjunction with some bannings adjusting the top tier decks (note that I'm not implying any bannings are warranted at present).

[Admiral_Arzar]

Zoo, 2013, & the steady decline:

2011 was an awesome year for Zoo, 2012 was a decline, but still had some showings, 2013 however, was even more anti climatic for the deck. Officially, the deck could be listed as dead. For list that have made it in more recent showings, many have been "Big Zoo" versions, and versions adding Punishing Fire to recur removal/burn elements.

As for why it's been on the decline, it just doesn't do enough even being so fast, a lot of stuff is faster in the format (mostly combo) & one needs some disruption to back it up, which doesn't come from the traditional Zoo colors of white/red/green.

As far as 2014 goes for Zoo, and those that keep pushing the deck, best of luck into the new year, whatever version of Zoo you decide to run, hopefully a transition with the deck will allow it to come back at some level in the format for those that love this deck.


That seems to make perfect sense. With respect to the implications toward a deck like Zoo, I'm slightly saddened by that fact that it doesn't really seem like a pure aggro deck is viable in the legacy format (not in the sort of "all in" style that we used to see in formats in the past). That being said, it's really invariable that at some point in eternal formats (without extensive use of the banned list) combo decks will beat out the fastest of the aggro decks. The only option for aggro then is to pack some form of disruption. As that disruption reduces the clock of the deck, card advantage becomes more important. So you have this shift from decks like Zoo to things like BUG. If we see a somewhat traditional style Zoo deck come back to prominence, I suspect it will be on the back of some very potent "hate bears" and possibly in conjunction with some bannings adjusting the top tier decks (note that I'm not implying any bannings are warranted at present).

I wrote this post for /r/mtglegacy, but it seems relevant here. I tried to sum up how recent printings have changed the Legacy metagame to the point where pure aggro is no longer viable (and it isn't just combo's fault). While this applies to all aggro decks in theory, it is particularly applicable to Zoo (as a combo player who used to moonlight as a fast Zoo player, it is largely based on my experience with the deck). The recent stuff is theory-crafting as I quit playing Zoo this summer when both Miracles and Omnitell surged in my metagame.


Aggro has been dropping off ever since the printing of Batterskull, honestly. SFM + Batterskull is an extremely cheap and compact package that allows midrange and control to basically slam Baneslayer Angel on turn 3 (and it doesn't really die to removal, plus vigilance means you must overcome 8 lifegain per turn functionally). Sure, you can kill the mystic, but countermagic and Mother of Runes exist. This printing started the decline.

Innistrad brought two printings that warped Legacy - Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage. Delver of Secrets passed Wild Nacatl as the best aggressive one-drop ever printed. It was blue, was not dependent on land types, and even had evasion. This printing made Canadian Threshold much faster, enabling it too kill nearly as quickly as Zoo while maintaining high consistency due to cantrips as well as enormous disruption and stack control. While it was not obvious at first, Delver.dec had largely made pure aggro obsolete. Snapcaster Mage had an entirely different impact. It gave control and mid-rangy blue decks functionally eight Swords to Plowshares while also providing a body to block with. Devastating two-for-ones against aggro decks became the norm, and a draw heavy on Plows and SCMs was almost impossible to play though, especially as these decks usually played SFM + Batterskull as well.

The next big hit came in Avacyn Restored. The Miracle mechanic produced a literal one-mana Wrath of God which requires only Brainstorm, SDT, or Jace to set up - cards that were already played in control decks to begin with. Miracles is an almost unwinnable matchup for aggro, which upsets the old "combo beats aggro, aggro beats control, control beats combo" cliche. In the same set, Griselbrand was printed. This card created a whole new fast combo archetype (TinFins) while returning Sneak and Show from the dead where it rightfully belonged. Sneak and Show in particular dodges most of the hate that aggro decks could pack for Storm and Dredge. Griselbrand makes Sneak much more consistent and powerful while being almost impossible to race.

Return to Ravnica block brought Enter the Infinite, creating the Omnishow deck, which is basically Sneak that doesn't lose to Sneak hate (Karakas, Gilded Drake, Pithing Needle, etc.). Now there was yet another combo deck that was difficult for aggro to hate out or race. You may be getting the impression that I hate combo decks - this is absolutely untrue as I am a combo player by nature. However, the impact of Show and Tell-based combo on the aggro archetype has been devastating, as there just aren't enough sideboard slots to prepare for another combo deck on top of aggro's traditional enemies (Storm, High Tide, Dredge, Reanimator to name a few).

This brings us to Return to Ravnica. Deathrite Shaman has empowered grindy midrange decks to a great extent (Jund is exhibit A). These decks are strong against pure aggro because of high amounts of removal and blockers along with card advantage to win the lategame. Deathrite Shaman provides acceleration, a clock, and the all-important lifegain to survive the early rush. Abrupt Decay isn't particularly important by comparison as it is just another removal spell.

Finally, we reach commander 2013. Delver wasn't enough, WOTC had to go and print a 3/1 Progenitus for 3 mana in heavy blue. Now every blue deck has a wall that aggro can't attack through and that can also carry Jitte or Batterskull for a blowout. This is obviously terrible for aggro decks unless they are also playing blue (Canadian Threshold says hi).

As you can see, WOTC has spent several years printing anti-aggro cards that empower midrange and control strategies to beat those matchups. This has allowed control to lock down the aggro matchup and also perform strongly against traditional combo using recent toys like Flusterstorm and Rest in Peace. They have also printed blue creatures that are stronger and more aggressive than non-blue alternatives, making Canadian Threshold and other tempo strategies like Patriot much more compelling than pure aggro. Finally, they have printed dumb permanents that have enshrined Show and Tell.dec as a third, difficult to hate out, combo pillar. All of these factors have combined to make pure aggro a difficult proposition, as you have very few good matchups and a heck of a lot of bad ones nowadays.

[CaptainTwiddle]

Admiral_Arzar, I very much agree with your analysis above (didn't want to copy the lengthy post). All in all, I think the changes that have moved the format away from pure aggro have added some play to the format that is desirable, but it may be too much now with True-Name Nemesis. Why that card had to be blue will continue to mystify me, but that's a topic for a different thread. Here's hoping Zoo one day regains at least tier 1.5 status.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Admiral_Arzar, I very much agree with your analysis above (didn't want to copy the lengthy post). All in all, I think the changes that have moved the format away from pure aggro have added some play to the format that is desirable, but it may be too much now with True-Name Nemesis. Why that card had to be blue will continue to mystify me, but that's a topic for a different thread. Here's hoping Zoo one day regains at least tier 1.5 status.

Unfortunately I can't play Zoo in my meta anymore. The upsurge of Miracles and Omnitell last summer drove me away from the deck, and nowadays there is no Omnitell, but there is still Miracles, Sneak and Show, Reanimator, and plenty of U/W/x TNN decks which are also bad matchups. The days where there were plenty of tribal decks to prey on and most blue decks were favorable matchups are over, and I don't think that's going to change for a long time, if ever. Drastic changes in the meta that heavily reduces the prevalence of SnT-based combo, along with new cards allowing aggro to once again beat blue decks would be required.

[carefulmug]

I want to suggest this list:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning

4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
3 Badlands


SB:

4 Thoughtseize
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Zealous Persecution

Okay:

This list is, yes, strikingly similar to many variants of RDW in Modern.

Tarmogoyf gets cut for Dark Confidant. Ideally, we can sit back on a Confidant and regain our hand in the face of the Miracles player. Not ideal, but postboard we have QPM, REB, Thoughtseize, and, if you'd like, Abrupt Decay.

It is best to play Nacatl before Guide. By turn 4, Nacatl has dealt 9; Guide has dealt 8 and given, at worst, 4 land to the opponent.
When faced with a hand comprised of DRS and other one drops, it is typically best to play the beaters first.

The sideboard can be modified extensively, including adding Abrupt Decays, Ethersworn Canonist, or Pyrostatic Pillars.

If mainboard Artifact/Enchantment hate is desired, cutting 4 Kird Ape for 4 QPM is appropriate. This may warrant switching out a fetchland and two badlands for 1 each: scrubland, bayou, and savannah.

Thoughts? Dark Zoo has long been my pet deck, and in a day and age when more traditional lists have hit a wall, I'm curious in the efficacy of more marginalized strategies.

[zulander]

I think Spirit of the Labyrinth has a place in Zoo helping the control and combo matchups. The fact that it's a 3/1 and not a 2/2 makes it more formidable in the deck. I'm gonna jam a set in and see how it plays out, here's the list I'll test him in:

Mana: 22

Creatures: 26
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goyf
4 Spirit of the Lab
3 Thalia
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Huntmaster of the Fells

Other: 12
8 Bolts
2 Swords
2 Jitte

[feline]

Hatebear Zoo is something I keep looking at, as well as the utility creatures with their abilities.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Gaddock Teeg
Ethersworn Canonist
Qasali Pridemage
Grim Lavamancer
Stoneforge Mystic
Knight of the Reliquary


& now of course, the new 3/1 draw 1 only spirit

[Tormod]

I put together a Zoo deck...

4 Wild Nactl
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia Guardian of Thraben
3 Gor Clan Rampager
2 Sylvan Library
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
+19 Lands

sb
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

In testing it seems alright, definitely better than the pure aggro builds I tested before.
I'm not expecting a whole lot, just wanted to build a Zoo deck to see if I could come up with something reasonable

[Qweerios]

Rancor is a great card against TNN in Zoo decks.

[CaptainTwiddle]

Hatebear Zoo is something I keep looking at, as well as the utility creatures with their abilities.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Gaddock Teeg
Ethersworn Canonist
Qasali Pridemage
Grim Lavamancer
Stoneforge Mystic
Knight of the Reliquary


& now of course, the new 3/1 draw 1 only spirit

Death and Taxes just does this better. The need for such hate is why Zoo isn't a real deck at the moment. Pure aggro can't race combo reliably and because of SFM + Batterskull/Jitte, mid-range owns it too.

[Fuzzy]

Hello everyone. I came here to say that I hate the format right now. Everything is combo, Delver or some kind of midrange deck. Booooring! :rolleyes:

Long time ago I played Zoo with some success, and right now I want bring this deck back. Here's the list I'm going to start with:

4 Experiment One
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
3 Price of Progress

4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain

So yes, it's RG Beats splash Path. I don't know if I even like Path since Tarmogoyf is on vacation (Thanks to Batterskull), but it's a start.

Some options are Fireblast instead PoP, and more burns (+1 Chain Lightning +2 Forked Bolt) instead of Paths. Also, I'm still not sure for Experiment One, and maybe Hidden Herd is better.

Any comments?

[aluisiocsantos]

I like the list, and I have t osay Hidden Herd would totally rock, it worked very well at least when I tried it out right before giving up and going Jund - And it rocks for the same reason i think PoP is better than ever right now.. Not even decks like D&T have too much basic lands, it's a great option for a second Nacatl.

I had forgotten about this card, but last night I've also been thinking about some lists, and very similar to you, like, more burn focused:
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape/4 Hidden Herd
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Plateau
3 Taiga
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
3 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 2 Spirit of the Labyrynth
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

[testing32]

Hello everyone. I came here to say that I hate the format right now. Everything is combo, Delver or some kind of midrange deck. Booooring! :rolleyes:

Any comments?

So, I toyed around with a zoo build. Have you thought about Kavu Predator? It matches up well against batterskull and TNN. Trample is really good right now.

[hiski]

You are suggesting this seriously? Maybe in some twisted casual punishing zoo......never in competitive playing.

[testing32]

You are suggesting this seriously? Maybe in some twisted casual punishing zoo......never in competitive playing.

Every build of zoo is casual right now

[aluisiocsantos]

Gotta laugh so that I don't cry upon realizing it's so true xD

[paradigm72]

I have a Kavu Predator Punishing Zoo list built right now. It's definitely just a casual pet deck but at this point I'm not sure what else Zoo really is. It's ok against many fair decks and even moderately good against Delver, but mediocre against TNN/Blade since you don't have that many ways to answer the lifegain and protection. The combo matchup is terrible, of course. The 1-of Fiery Justice is quite fun in a list like this.


4x Wild Nacatl
3x Loam Lion
2x Kird Ape
3x Tarmogoyf
3x Kavu Predator
2x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Punishing Fire
3x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Sylvan Library
1x Fiery Justice

1x Dryad Arbor
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Forest
1x Plateau
1x Savannah
2x Taiga
2x Wasteland
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Arid Mesa
3x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Chained to the Rocks
1x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Skullcrack
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

[hiski]

Gotta laugh so that I don't cry upon realizing it's so true xD
This is actually so sad but so true :D



Every build of zoo is casual right now

Sorry for my attacking response..

Of course new ways to deal with very problematic meta are more than welcome (in my opinion). Maybe Kavu Predator is just too casual way of thinking. I think that Rancor would do the same thing with better results. This deck seriously needs some love from R&D team but problem is also that classic Zoo needs cards those can't be used against it or splashed outside of it.

I really would like to drop Kird Ape and/or Loam Lion away but there just isn't too many cards to replace them :/

[Qweerios]

Anybody else thinks Spirit of the Labyrinth would be a great addition to zoo? It seems to me like Zoo is one of the best decks to use and abuse an aggressive/disruptive 2drop with 1 toughness. Given all the removal available to this archetype, Spirit sounds like a step in the right direction.

What is the consensus on StP vs. PtE? It seems to me like StP is always better since most creatures in the format have low power. Pathing a DRS or a SFM sounds like a poor trade.

Is Hidden Herd better than Steppe Lynx? If you intend on putting maximal pressure on your opponent for the first 3-4 turns of a game, don't you want all the best 1drops possible (AKA: Nacatl, Guide, Lynx, Lavamancer)? Yes it is a poor topdeck card, but isn't Zoo a poor topdeck deck?

Also, I don't understand why people don't start every Zoo list with 4 Goblin Guides. It has got to be one of the best aggressive 1drop in the format along with Delver and Nacatl.

And finally, if you don't play PoP, play Wasteland. Regardless of Guides or not, Wasteland is a great way to convert land drops into additional attack phases against numerous decks.

[ahg113]

This is actually so sad but so true :D




Sorry for my attacking response..

Of course new ways to deal with very problematic meta are more than welcome (in my opinion). Maybe Kavu Predator is just too casual way of thinking. I think that Rancor would do the same thing with better results. This deck seriously needs some love from R&D team but problem is also that classic Zoo needs cards those can't be used against it or splashed outside of it.

I really would like to drop Kird Ape and/or Loam Lion away but there just isn't too many cards to replace them :/

Not the strongest, and a turn slower, but higher potential - Skyshroud War Beast Not that I have the cards, but I miss the possibility of this being a regular participant in the format. Not sure how to fix it, but Zoo should be a thing.

[hiski]

Zoo is in a very bad spot because it used to have the most efficient one drops of the game but now it has pretty much the worst of the playable one drops of the game. Almost everything evading Delver of Secrets and Deathrite Shaman out shines everything else but Goblin Guide and Wild Nacatl. It is just the thing now that everything is better outside of :g::w::r: colors; it is pretty much hardcore control, blue aggro or combo.

Terminus, Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage, Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt Decay and True-Name Nemesis are the reason Zoo is so unplayable. Decay and Shaman are not directly wrecking Zoo but it is the same thing as in modern pre-Nacatl ban. Why would you play :g::r: if you can play :g::w::r: with 3/3 one drop. Why would you play :g: supporting (aggro deck) in legacy if you don't play Shaman and Decay?

I've been also developing new kind of Dark Zoo list in my head:

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Deahtrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tramogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Chain Lightning

1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Plateau
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire

Big problem is that you can't play Goblin Guide, what if you don't have right lands for Wild Nacatl and what are you going to do against Terminus or combo? ...and yes of course what are you doing against True-Name Nemesis :D I really like the Dark Confidant in the list but then I ask myself 'Why am I forcing this to be in Zoo colors.. just cut one of them and go :b::g:x'. Cutting Deathrite Shaman is also an option but what would replace it?

We need more Nacatl style of cards those have mana cost or abilities supported only by fair colors.

[lavafrogg]

Zoo is in a very bad spot because it used to have the most efficient one drops of the game but now it has pretty much the worst of the playable one drops of the game. Almost everything evading Delver of Secrets and Deathrite Shaman out shines everything else but Goblin Guide and Wild Nacatl. It is just the thing now that everything is better outside of :g::w::r: colors; it is pretty much hardcore control, blue aggro or combo.

Terminus, Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage, Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt Decay and True-Name Nemesis are the reason Zoo is so unplayable. Decay and Shaman are not directly wrecking Zoo but it is the same thing as in modern pre-Nacatl ban. Why would you play :g::r: if you can play :g::w::r: with 3/3 one drop. Why would you play :g: supporting (aggro deck) in legacy if you don't play Shaman and Decay?

I've been also developing new kind of Dark Zoo list in my head:

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Deahtrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tramogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Chain Lightning

1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Plateau
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire

Big problem is that you can't play Goblin Guide, what if you don't have right lands for Wild Nacatl and what are you going to do against Terminus or combo? ...and yes of course what are you doing against True-Name Nemesis :D I really like the Dark Confidant in the list but then I ask myself 'Why am I forcing this to be in Zoo colors.. just cut one of them and go :b::g:x'. Cutting Deathrite Shaman is also an option but what would replace it?

We need more Nacatl style of cards those have mana cost or abilities supported only by fair colors.

There are 3 nacatl style cards, kird ape and loam lion also count.

I think that zoo has the same problem that bant does. You just have so many playable sets of cards that it is impossible to pick all of the ones that you want.

4 of nacatl/lion/ape will get you to a fast start but do you want to support that of add green sun zenith? Burn is awesome but stoneforge will give you longevity. Thalia is amazing but does not like all of your burn spells.

I have been looking at playing a big zoo list by switching my moms in my mav list with nacatl. I think turn one wild nacatl turn two zenith for heirarch swing for 4 is a good start to any matchup. Thalia/spirit plus teeg give you a prayer against combo and just bashing for 3 backed up by stoneforge/knight could overwhelm many decks.

[hiski]

There are 3 nacatl style cards, kird ape and loam lion also count.

I just don't found two power creatures without haste or any kind of utility too bad


I think that zoo has the same problem that bant does. You just have so many playable sets of cards that it is impossible to pick all of the ones that you want.

Bant has also power of Jace, the Mind Sculptor who can win games by himself. Elspeth, Knight-Errant is of course good planeswalker also but she really lacks the game ending power.


4 of nacatl/lion/ape will get you to a fast start but do you want to support that of add green sun zenith? Burn is awesome but stoneforge will give you longevity. Thalia is amazing but does not like all of your burn spells.

I think that adding Stoneforge Mystic would make the threat of Terminus a little bit lighter.


Thalia/spirit plus teeg give you a prayer against combo and just bashing for 3 backed up by stoneforge/knight could overwhelm many decks.

This is my plan also when I'm on Zoo but I think Maverick just does this way more better :/

[rancOr_]

I'd play something like Drew Levin posted on SCG. Thoughtseize+ SoL can mess with combo/control md and u got some nice advantages from DRS+Confidant. Confi goes well with SoL and is a must answer card(especially if they alrdy used stp on a one drop).

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth

1 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard:
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ranger of Eos
2 Pyroblast
2 Wear
3 Zealous Persecution
2 Armageddon
2 Duress

[crow_mw]

4c decks have a bad tendency of loosing to themselves or a single wasteland. In a super fast deck, where even one round of having access to wrong colors is game over, going 4c is suicide. If 'zoo' wants black it needs to drop one of the primary colors and as a result drop Nacatl, at which point this is likely a totally different deck altogether.

The nail in the coffin for Zoo was printing of Terminus. With Miracles being on a back foot for a first time in over a year maybe some Zoo lists have a chance of making appearance. But those need to be small zoo lists, that aim to win before Batterskull and TNN take over the game. I think that you would need lists that pack a lot of burn (not pfire ofc), so that you can kill Stoneforge before BS or worst case scenario 2 for 1 the germ token. TNN I think is slightly less of a problem than Batterskull for Zoo. Both kill zoo attackers on defense, but TNN at least doesn't gain life and doesn't have vigilance. Either way a burn heavy list would just try to alfa-strike into TNN and finish the job with burn.

It is not likely a great strategy but at least gives you a sporting chance against meta while miracles stay low.

[CaptainTwiddle]

Zoo really just seems dead in the water right now. The classic strategy of creatures + burn just isn't fast or resilient enough in the current meta. You can adjust by including things like Thoughtseize, but that really just starts to point you down the road toward Deadguy Ale or Team Italia. If you start running Spirit of the Labyrinth, you're slowing down your clock and therefore need to compensate by being more durable, so the Stoneforge package seems appealing. If you want to just speed up the clock, then you start leaning toward being a burn deck. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Zoo, as it is traditionally defined, is simply not a viable option.

What the deck seems to need, other than a favorable metagame, are the means of putting on some pressure and recovering from setbacks without diluting the clock of the base strategy. As mentioned in the previous post, Terminus is problematic for Zoo. Now, Miracles isn't an incredibly popular deck at the moment, but I feel like one solution to this problem is Goblin Guide. Guide's haste allows you to more effectively recover from Terminus or Supreme Verdict. Granted, land heavy decks that can manipulate the top of their library aren't necessarily frightened by Goblin Guide, but Zoo has always kind of been a deck that represents an attitude of, "Yeah. I know you know what I'm up to. I don't care. You're the one that needs to find answers. I'm asking the questions today."

[aluisiocsantos]

Me and my brother did some testing on Cockatrice with the following list and it's really effective in most fair matchups (Patriot included), and was good enough vs Reanimator:

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Qasali Pridemage

2 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile

Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
2 Wear // Tear
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Karakas
3 Spirit of the Labyrynth
1 Oblivion Ring


Price of Progress is just so retarded right now, and the deck needs roughly 2 lands to make a match work, so you don't need to worry at most times about Fireblasting away - The thing is burn it down, and beat it up with creeps - the good ol zoo way, but I think PoP was never THIS effective - even monowhite decks such as D&T has ridiculous amounts of non-basic lands.

Spirit of Labirynth alone won vs Reanimator and Griselbrand - and then it gets path'd away.

I'll be bringing this to town this weekend to see what's it's up for real, irl.

[Richard Cheese]

Me and my brother did some testing on Cockatrice with the following list and it's really effective in most fair matchups (Patriot included), and was good enough vs Reanimator:

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Qasali Pridemage

2 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Plateau
3 Taiga
1 Savannah
3 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile

Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
2 Wear // Tear
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Karakas
3 Spirit of the Labyrynth
1 Oblivion Ring


Price of Progress is just so retarded right now, and the deck needs roughly 2 lands to make a match work, so you don't need to worry at most times about Fireblasting away - The thing is burn it down, and beat it up with creeps - the good ol zoo way, but I think PoP was never THIS effective - even monowhite decks such as D&T has ridiculous amounts of non-basic lands.

Spirit of Labirynth alone won vs Reanimator and Griselbrand - and then it gets path'd away.

I'll be bringing this to town this weekend to see what's it's up for real, irl.

Why Kird Ape over Goblin Guide? The extra toughness seems largely irrelevant compared to the 2 extra damage.

I'd also look at the 4th Pridemage, probably over Fireblast #3. Jittes/Batterskulls be everywhere.

[aluisiocsantos]

Just because of the 3 toughness, therefore able to survive Punishing Fires, BUT I think Goblin Guide's speed is worth a shot too. And because he can just fearlessly attack agains any 2/* of the format (surprise Snapcasters, Thalia's First Strike, and so on), sometimes I feel Guide dies maybe too soon - But I agree Guide's speed supports the sligh zoo's quick approach to the race.

As for the Fourth qasali, it might be a good one, I was actually in doubt of what to do in this case due to using 2 Wear//Tear in the sideboard.

Oh yeah, also, debating between that single Lightning Helix vs Boros Charm. The option of extra control + hp, vs extra finisher/ double tarmo swing.

[Richard Cheese]

Just because of the 3 toughness, therefore able to survive Punishing Fires, BUT I think Goblin Guide's speed is worth a shot too. And because he can just fearlessly attack agains any 2/* of the format (surprise Snapcasters, Thalia's First Strike, and so on), sometimes I feel Guide dies maybe too soon - But I agree Guide's speed supports the sligh zoo's quick approach to the race.

As for the Fourth qasali, it might be a good one, I was actually in doubt of what to do in this case due to using 2 Wear//Tear in the sideboard.

Oh yeah, also, debating between that single Lightning Helix vs Boros Charm. The option of extra control + hp, vs extra finisher/ double tarmo swing.

Yeah, there are a fair number of 2/x creatures being played now. I guess it's just a matter of testing, but my guess is that haste will outweigh the extra toughness though. You can hold a Guide to essentially act as a shock when needed, but Ape is never a surprise. Also Guide is never a 1/1.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'd like to test Lightning Mauler in Sligh Zoo at some point. Giving every guy that hits the board haste seems rad, but the 1 toughness is probably too much of a liability right now.

[Megadeus]

Yeah, there are a fair number of 2/x creatures being played now. I guess it's just a matter of testing, but my guess is that haste will outweigh the extra toughness though. You can hold a Guide to essentially act as a shock when needed, but Ape is never a surprise. Also Guide is never a 1/1.

Maybe I'm nuts, but I'd like to test Lightning Mauler in Sligh Zoo at some point. Giving every guy that hits the board haste seems rad, but the 1 toughness is probably too much of a liability right now.

Mauler probably would be decent in the Turbo versions that play 4 Burning Tree Emmissary

[ironclad8690]

Played Zoo at a local tournament last night.

Round 1 I lost to merfolk, I didn't realize just how badly TNN swings this one.

Round 2 I beat Patriot Delver, which was comforting, since it is such a popular deck at larger tournaments.

Round 3 I lost to MUD, 1 game was chalice on 1 until I draw Qasali, but by then it is too late and he has platinum emperion. G2 I get him to 4 and he kuldothas for blightsteel (he already had lightning greaves). I have never really felt like this was a great matchup.

Round 4: Lost to Team Italia. Lingering Souls is quite good here, and he also had lightning helix. I flooded pretty badly in G1 and G3 as well.

All in all: I really wanted to play against death and taxes and lands, but oh well.

[ajfennewald]

I want to suggest this list:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning

4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
3 Badlands


SB:

4 Thoughtseize
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Zealous Persecution

Okay:

This list is, yes, strikingly similar to many variants of RDW in Modern.

Tarmogoyf gets cut for Dark Confidant. Ideally, we can sit back on a Confidant and regain our hand in the face of the Miracles player. Not ideal, but postboard we have QPM, REB, Thoughtseize, and, if you'd like, Abrupt Decay.

It is best to play Nacatl before Guide. By turn 4, Nacatl has dealt 9; Guide has dealt 8 and given, at worst, 4 land to the opponent.
When faced with a hand comprised of DRS and other one drops, it is typically best to play the beaters first.

The sideboard can be modified extensively, including adding Abrupt Decays, Ethersworn Canonist, or Pyrostatic Pillars.

If mainboard Artifact/Enchantment hate is desired, cutting 4 Kird Ape for 4 QPM is appropriate. This may warrant switching out a fetchland and two badlands for 1 each: scrubland, bayou, and savannah.

Thoughts? Dark Zoo has long been my pet deck, and in a day and age when more traditional lists have hit a wall, I'm curious in the efficacy of more marginalized strategies.
I would think if you are playing black you would want some number of abrupt decay ( replacing path?) esp with no pridemages main. It is more expensive but it mostly fills the same role but with more flexibility.

Also is your deck really red enough to need all of your duals to produce red? Varying your dual base would make the mana significanly more flexible.

[carefulmug]

@ ajfennewald

I tested the deck further and it, in its current form, folds to Miracles. I became dejected and took the cards apart for Legacy Jund (boring) and Modern Domain Zoo (awesome).

Nonetheless, I still retain the deck has potential.

I do believe that some number of mainboard (2-4) QPM (Replacing Kird Ape) to battle equipment and some number of Abrupt Decay to battle counterbalance are desirable, although I'm not convinced cutting PtE is the best choice.

Perhaps adding SB 3x Gaddock Teeg for the Miracles mathchup, too.

As for the list I'd posted, the assortment of red duals plays just fine considering half of the deck hinges on having red available. The redundancy of duals aids in battling Wasteland decks. It is an adopted manabase from http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10423&iddeck=76017 .

I believe the list could go two ways: including QPM and Abrupt Decay, which would demand a diversification of the mana base (-2 badlands, -1 plateau, -1 taiga, +1 bayou, +1 scrubland, +1 savannah)

OR

Pushing the deck further into "Dark Sligh" with the inclusion of Fireblast and the like.

[zulander]

Here's my latest list:

Lands: 22
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
3 Basics
3 Wasteland

Creatures: 26
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Other: 12
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte


Sideboard: 15
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Skullcrack
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge

I'm still toying with the board for the current meta, but that's where it's at for now. I'm really liking the GCR's so far, and with 4 Spirits MD I think cutting down to 2 Thalia is fine. I'm not sure I'm missing Ooze a whole lot either.

I'm still undefeated against combo (lulz) and control can be quite annoying. GCR helps get them into burn range along with additional skullcracks to kill their jaces out of the board.

The only decks I feel completely overwhelmed by are lands and burn. If I don't play a thalia/jitte turn 2 or get an STP to buy me a turn or two then it's just GG which seems awful imho.

[Demonic_Attorney]

Here's my latest list:

Lands: 22
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
3 Basics
3 Wasteland

Creatures: 26
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Other: 12
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte


Sideboard: 15
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Skullcrack
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge

I'm still toying with the board for the current meta, but that's where it's at for now. I'm really liking the GCR's so far, and with 4 Spirits MD I think cutting down to 2 Thalia is fine. I'm not sure I'm missing Ooze a whole lot either.

I'm still undefeated against combo (lulz) and control can be quite annoying. GCR helps get them into burn range along with additional skullcracks to kill their jaces out of the board.

The only decks I feel completely overwhelmed by are lands and burn. If I don't play a thalia/jitte turn 2 or get an STP to buy me a turn or two then it's just GG which seems awful imho.

Respectfully, Loxodon Smiter is really weak and I think it is outrageous to even consider playing a full play set!

I concur that the mere idea of playing Thalia and Spirit is quite attractive and even looks good on paper but for Zoo it really isn't. Playing four (4) Spirits is enough and Thalia is not required. I never liked Thalia in Zoo anyways as the lack of synergy with playing a lot of burn and removal spells just undermines the decks tempo and speed too much.

Speaking of speed, if Zoo is going have any chance of making a come back in legacy it will no doubt be on the back of an extremely aggressive sligh like strategy; like fast Zoo if you will. Simply put, if you want to play "Big Zoo" go play Maverick. If you want to play Thalia, Swords to Plowshares and Wasteland than go play Death & Taxes.

Indeed, to have a reasonable chance at beating combo and other powerful control decks you have to be extremely fast and aggressive right out of the gate. This means Goblin Guide is a must for this strategy. Therefore, if you're playing GG then you have to dispense with playing Thalia.

Playing an aggressive strategy to keep up with the ridiculously fast combo decks that are out there means using burn spells and not undermining that damage you’re dealing by giving them life back with STP. Path to Exile has to be the removal spell of choice and even though I hate giving them a land as much as anyone, it is clearly the lesser of two evils given Zoo's underlying strategy that it needs to take right now in the present metegame to have any kind of success. Look on the bright side; Canadian Threshold and Team America don't even play any basics so PTE has no down side at all in some matchups like those ones. Therefore, playing GG and PTE dictate that both Wasteland and Thalia are cut from Zoo.

Now onto the real reason why Zoo may have potential to see some play in legacy again, Spirit of the Labyrinth.

Spirit breaths new life into a dead deck so playing four (4) of these exceptional hate bears main deck is a must right now for any Zoo deck trying to make a comeback given the present legacy metagame. This card has potential to do some serious damage to some top cards in the top decks right now as I already have articulated and attempted to convey in the Spirit of the Labyrinth forum. For ease of reference I shall re-post the pertinent part below:

So which cards/ strategies are hated by this card:

- Brainstorm (Hymn myself) -> 80% of the format
- Sorcery speed cantrips -> Blue control
- Sensei's Divining Top -> Miracles
- Griselbrand -> Sneak&Show, Reanimator
- Enter the Infinite -> Omnitell
- Sylvan Library -> Jund, Maverick, Team America
- Carefull Study, Faithless Looting etc -> Dredge, Reanimator
- Glimpse of Nature, Elvish Visionairy -> Elves

Finally, I steadfastly believe that 2 for 1 power creatures is no longer good enough and 3 for 1 power is now the standard for the aggro legacy format (i.e. Nimble Mongoose and Delver of Secrets). Therefore, cards like Kird Ape and Loam Lion must fail to make the cut. Goblin Guide is the exception because of his speed and ability to attack right away. Furthermore, he always has 2 power no matter what, whereas the ape and lion can be at 1 power from time-to-time.

The 2 cc drops of Goyf, Pridemage and Spirit fill the void for that mana curve. The 1 drop locks have to be Wild Nacatl, Goblin Guide and Grim Lavamancer (2-3).

I think in attempt to get three (3) or more power creature for a one (1) casting cost will call for a bold exploration and play testing into cards like Vexing Devil, Experiment One, Hidden Herd and Steppe Lynx.

Most experienced Zoo players say "well, I hope to get 4 damage out of GG and he will have served his purpose". Well Vexing Devil gets that 4 damage which your opponent will inevitably take at the beginning of the game all the time every time. After that, getting or even top decking a 4/3 is even better then Nacatl. In any event, with POP right now being off the chain that is a potential for a voluminous amount of cheap early damage.

I only like Experiment One with Burning-Tree Emissary and all the 2 cc creature spots are filled with a mix of Goyf, Spirit and Pridemage.

Steppe Lynx with twelve (12) fetch lands and Sylvan Library can be somewhat consistent and the four (4) damage attacks early against control and especially combo can be huge and game determining in the long run. Yes Lynx is weak against aggro but other aggro decks in the format are already a favourable matchups for Zoo and what is keeping this deck off the legacy radar right now, amongst other things, is not enough damage early to kill combo fast enough because 2 for 1 power is manifestly too slow.

Hidden Herd lacks synergy with POP and is a horrible top deck. That being said, some people swear by them.

I just purchased my foil play set of Spirit of the Labyrinth and cannot wait to sleeve them up and continue to play test and play in local tournaments, testing Zoo in the present metagame. Hopefully it goes well so I will be persuaded enough to opt to play it at Star City Seattle Open and can take the Beta Lighting Bolts out of my Canadian Threshold deck to put back into a Zoo build (with foil spirits of course)!

[Vandalize]

Respectfully, Loxodon Smiter is really weak and I think it is outrageous to even consider playing a full play set!

I concur that the mere idea of playing Thalia and Spirit is quite attractive and even looks good on paper but for Zoo it really isn't. Playing four (4) Spirits is enough and Thalia is not required. I never liked Thalia in Zoo anyways as the lack of synergy with playing a lot of burn and removal spells just undermines the decks tempo and speed too much.

Speaking of speed, if Zoo is going have any chance of making a come back in legacy it will no doubt be on the back of an extremely aggressive sligh like strategy; like fast Zoo if you will. Simply put, if you want to play "Big Zoo" go play Maverick. If you want to play Thalia, Swords to Plowshares and Wasteland than go play Death & Taxes.

Indeed, to have a reasonable chance at beating combo and other powerful control decks you have to be extremely fast and aggressive right out of the gate. This means Goblin Guide is a must for this strategy. Therefore, if you're playing GG then you have to dispense with playing Thalia.

Playing an aggressive strategy to keep up with the ridiculously fast combo decks that are out there means using burn spells and not undermining that damage you’re dealing by giving them life back with STP. Path to Exile has to be the removal spell of choice and even though I hate giving them a land as much as anyone, it is clearly the lesser of two evils given Zoo's underlying strategy that it needs to take right now in the present metegame to have any kind of success. Look on the bright side; Canadian Threshold and Team America don't even play any basics so PTE has no down side at all in some matchups like those ones. Therefore, playing GG and PTE dictate that both Wasteland and Thalia are cut from Zoo.

Now onto the real reason why Zoo may have potential to see some play in legacy again, Spirit of the Labyrinth.

Spirit breaths new life into a dead deck so playing four (4) of these exceptional hate bears main deck is a must right now for any Zoo deck trying to make a comeback given the present legacy metagame. This card has potential to do some serious damage to some top cards in the top decks right now as I already have articulated and attempted to convey in the Spirit of the Labyrinth forum. For ease of reference I shall re-post it below:

So which cards/ strategies are hated by this card:

- Brainstorm (Hymn myself) -> 80% of the format
- Sorcery speed cantrips -> Blue control
- Sensei's Divining Top -> Miracles
- Griselbrand -> Sneak&Show, Reanimator
- Enter the Infinite -> Omnitell
- Sylvan Library -> Jund, Maverick, Team America
- Carefull Study, Faithless Looting etc -> Dredge, Reanimator
- Glimpse of Nature, Elvish Visionairy -> Elves

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27444-SCD-Spirit-of-the-Labyrinth/page19

Finally, I steadfastly believe that 2 for 1 power creatures is no longer good enough and 3 for 1 power is now the standard for the aggro legacy format (i.e. Nimble Mongoose and Delver of Secrets). Therefore, cards like Kird Ape and Loam Lion must fail to make the cut. Goblin Guide is the exception because of his speed and ability to attack right away. Furthermore, he always has 2 power no matter what, whereas the ape and lion can be at 1 power from time-to-time.

The 2 cc drops of Goyf, Pridemage and Spirit fill the void for that mana curve. The 1 drop locks have to be Wild Nacatl, Goblin Guide and Grim Lavamancer (2-3).

I think in attempt to get three (3) or more power creature for a one (1) casting cost will call for a bold exploration and play testing into cards like Vexing Devil, Experiment One, Hidden Herd and Steppe Lynx.

Most experienced Zoo players say "well, I hope to get 4 damage out of GG and he will have served his purpose". Well Vexing Devil gets that 4 damage which your opponent will inevitably take at the beginning of the game all the time every time. After that, getting or even top decking a 4/3 is even better then Nacatl. In any event, with POP right now being off the chain that is a potential for a voluminous amount of cheap early damage.

I only like Experiment One with Burning-Tree Emissary and all the 2 cc creature spots are filled with a mix of Goyf, Spirit and Pridemage.

Steppe Lynx with twelve (12) fetch lands and Sylvan Library can be somewhat consistent and the four (4) damage attacks early against control and especially combo can be huge and game determining in the long run. Yes Lynx is weak against aggro but other aggro decks in the format are already a favourable matchups for Zoo and what is keeping this deck off the legacy radar right now, amongst other things, is not enough damage early to kill combo fast enough because 2 for 1 power is manifestly too slow.

Hidden Herd lacks synergy with POP and is a horrible top deck. That being said, some people swear by them.

I just purchased my foil play set of Spirit of the Labyrinth and cannot wait to sleeve them up and continue to play test and play in local tournaments, testing Zoo in the present metagame. Hopefully it goes well so I will be persuaded enough to opt to play it at Star City Seattle Open and can take the Beta Lighting Bolts out of my Canadian Threshold deck to put back into a Zoo build (with foil spirits of course)!

I've been trying to find an acceptable Zoo list in these past few weeks, and I couldn't find anything better than Experiment One/Burning-Tree Emissary. The lack of synergy with Qasali Pridemage made me cut them, but I really miss those kitties.

Could you share your list with Spirits?